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I have posted a little on this tread. but honestly biggest things stopping me is 1. Not many weapons options or viable upgrade kits 2. The big one is only one race, no nids, chaos/divergent, orks, eldar, crons or even tau etc, I cant remember if tau encounter is after?). Im sure during the herasy era most of these races especially crons and eldar had bigger mechs than others. Arh well
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/21 14:02:52
14k Generic Space Marine Chapters 20k Deathwatch 10k Sisters of Battle 3k Inquisition 4k Grey Knights 5k Imperial Guard 4k Harlequins 8k Tau
Spectral Ceramite wrote: The big one is only one race, no nids, chaos/divergent, orks, eldar, crons or even tau etc, I cant remember if tau encounter is after?). Im sure during the herasy era most of these races especially crons and eldar had bigger mechs than others. Arh well
Don't click if you're still reading the Titandeath book
Spoiler:
Tau, Nids & Necrons are all 10,000 years away from the current AT setting, but Chaos stuff is coming eventually as they work through the Horus Heresy timeline. The new book covers the creation of the first warp-corrupted Titans at Beta-Garmon, and that's where the next AT expansion is set
It's also pretty amusing that you're complaining about a game with one faction with nearly 60k pts of Imperial armies listed in your signature
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/21 15:16:05
My diversity is actually diverse, a different faction with the same pretty much everything apart from a few rules is not diverse its minuscule. I will just wait out for BFG if it comes then.
14k Generic Space Marine Chapters 20k Deathwatch 10k Sisters of Battle 3k Inquisition 4k Grey Knights 5k Imperial Guard 4k Harlequins 8k Tau
wildger wrote: "AT group in FB broke 5k member limit. Biggest 40k group I have seen so far is 30k. Not too bad for busted game."
People are more interested in the models and painting aspects than the actual game play. It costs a lot to get into this game and I doubt very much that it will stand with time.
It's only just hitting it's stride though. And whether people are into it for painting or playing - it's still selling.
Biggest drawback at launch was a paucity of weapon options for the Warlord. Given that's the traditional powerhouse, having just one kit out meant the other Titan Classes had less choice from their own dakka. After all, the Twin Volcano Cannons are for your killshots. So everyone else is more geared toward rapid shield stripping.
Now? Now we're starting to see that change up a bit. And as others come out, so the game widens. As I've said since the get go, I really want to play with Concussive Weapons - because spinning an enemy Titan out of an otherwise carefully selected LoF is potentially game winning.
I too ordered a Battle Group from Darksphere for £75 just yesterday. Should be turning up today...in fact, hold on.....*checks Royal Mail*, nads. Need to go pick it up from the Post Office tomorrow or Sunday. Well, that's a PITA I could do without!
Previously, I had but the core rules, A Warlord and a Knight Banner. Was too pricey for me, and found finding stuff in stock was tricksy.
Now? Now I've got a decent Maniple - and certainly enough to be able to vary my maniple with just another couple of purchases.
Great stuff. If you happen to be in the South London area, it looks like a few of us at my club are getting into the game. We're planning some games in the new year.
I feel this titanicus thing should be kept in its own "game" and should stay FAR away from us who have invested so much time and money in a certain games structure. I HATE scaling being incorrect and not realistic, that's just me of course but yeah. Why couldn't they just make the models normal 40k size and create a new game play specifically for what ever game play this titanicus involves, instead of doing some weird scale/game changing model crap...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Give titanicus a little table in the corner of the room or some thing and ban it from the regular 40k table, and put a makeshift wall around it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/22 11:19:27
Stormatious wrote: I feel this titanicus thing should be kept in its own "game" and should stay FAR away from us who have invested so much time and money in a certain games structure. I HATE scaling being incorrect and not realistic, that's just me of course but yeah. Why couldn't they just make the models normal 40k size and create a new game play specifically for what ever game play this titanicus involves, instead of doing some weird scale/game changing model crap...
Give titanicus a little table in the corner of the room or some thing and ban it from the regular 40k table, and put a makeshift wall around it.
You realize that if the models were kept at 40K scale then they'd need the whole room, right? And it is entirely it's own game with models that can't be on a 40K table. Really, I've no idea what you're trying to say here other than "I'm scared and confused by unfamiliar things".
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/22 11:33:31
Stormatious wrote: I feel this titanicus thing should be kept in its own "game" and should stay FAR away from us who have invested so much time and money in a certain games structure. I HATE scaling being incorrect and not realistic, that's just me of course but yeah. Why couldn't they just make the models normal 40k size and create a new game play specifically for what ever game play this titanicus involves, instead of doing some weird scale/game changing model crap...
Give titanicus a little table in the corner of the room or some thing and ban it from the regular 40k table, and put a makeshift wall around it.
You realize that if the models were kept at 40K scale then they'd need the whole room, right? And it is entirely it's own game. Really, I've no idea what you're trying to say here other than "I'm scared and confused by unfamiliar things".
No i mean why couldn't they just add the models in as normal 40k models but add a game play option for what ever the game titanicus currently is in the codex's. So im not scared and confused im saying to me it just seems unnecessary and does in fact add confusion overall to the hobby for some one who is new, not saying i am. So yeah i mean if they are 40k scale then that would be fine for whole room.
Automatically Appended Next Post: All im trying to say is it seems completely unnecessary, just my thoughts that's all, you can perhaps explain other wise.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/22 11:43:30
There are 40K scale titan models but they're huge and expensive (Warlord is 2feet tall and costs about £1300).
When I said "whole room" I meant that a table would need to be the size of the whole room so that Titanicus could be played at 40K scale.
Requiring a whole room to play, about £5K of models and a load of 2-3ft tall buildings for scenery makes it a tad impractical in 40K scale. But the models do exist so feel free to have at it if you like.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/22 11:52:59
Er Storm you are aware that this game isn't about elite troopers in armour but building sized titans. The smallest model in AT is a knight, which is one of the biggest plastic kits for 40K.
The Warlord is many times its size and costs over £1000 in resin and if done in plastic would still be many hundreds and be almost impractical for most people. Even just building and painting such big models is a challenge; not to mention transport and actual playing with them.
No I think you've gotten the wrong end of the stick somewhere and not properly looked at what AT is representing and being. It's almost impossible to make it for 40K scale and have anyone beyond a handful (worldwide) who would be able to buy, build, paint and actually play. There's no practical nor financial reason to make it 40K scale.
Scott-S6 wrote: There are 40K scale models but they're huge and expensive (Warlord is 2feet tall and costs about £1300).
When I said "whole room" I meant that a table would need to be the size of the whole room so that Titanicus could be played at 40K scale.
These guys actually played a game of Titanicus on 40K scale (proxying Eldar Titans for the Imperial Titans on one side, presumably because they didn't have enough Imperial FW Titans for TWO 40K-scale Titanicus armies )
I see, well as long as they don't focus on one game over the other etc... but yeah i get it. Like if you wanted to start getting 40k models of some of the massive home world ships for some of the factions ypu would have to make a new scaled game for it... OR DO U!!! jks
Stormatious wrote: I see, well as long as they don't focus on one game over the other etc... but yeah i get it. Like if you wanted to start getting 40k models of some of the massive home world ships for some of the factions ypu would have to make a new scaled game for it... OR DO U!!! jks
That also was a thing (and supposed to be coming back in a couple of years).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/22 12:17:46
So quite a lot of models aren’t useable in the different games. A Land raider isn’t much use in AoS or on a bloodbowl pitch, for example. I guess you could argue that Titanicus can’t be played on the same boards as 40k... except that it basically can.
There used to be infantry for epic. It was a pretty good game and people still play it, some of them now using the new titans.
Weirdly, the rules for titans in AT are far more detailed than in 40k. In 40k they just have a simple damage track and no issues with stuff like managing their plasma reactors.
One day I’d love to do a titanicus battle at 40k scale, for a convention show or something. My club does probably have the resources to stage it, though it’d take a hell of a long time to paint!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/22 13:12:41
Weirdly, the rules for titans in AT are far more detailed than in 40k. In 40k they just have a simple damage track and no issues with stuff like managing their plasma reactors.
Heh it is an odd thing that while 40k has become more of a streamlined mass battle game, Titanicus with its(in universe) much bigger units has come back as a crunchy skirmish game
I see this thread is still trucking, with the two sides basically boiling down to “I love this game, so it cant be a bust” versus “it isn’t as expansive or popular as 40k, the most expansive and popular war game in the world, so what’s the point?”
It got me thinking, what *is* a “total bust” from a GW perspective? A lot of games have come and gone over the years. I think I can provide one perfect example of a total bust: Dreadfleet.
Dreadfleet wasn’t in 28mm scale, nor was it in scale with any other game GW made. It could have been a reboot of Man O’ War, but it wasn’t, so the fans of the old game had little to pull them in. Fans willing to try something new would go on to discover it actually isn’t an especially good game either. Piles of them sat at my FLGS at 2/3rd off for years, haunting the clearance shelf. It was never revisited, no expansions were made, and it was never really discussed again.
*That* is, to me, a total bust.
Then there’s the loads off oddball specialist games, like Warmaster, the various Epics, Aeronautica Imperialis, Blood Bowl, Necromunda... all beloved by many over the decades, but not big enough sellers to keep them from going OOP for long periods of time.
On that level, AT18 will likely be like it’s original incarnation - beloved by many, popular for years, maybe a slow boil like Age of Sigmar was, growing in popularity when the range is a little wider. It will never be as popular as 40k, because literally nothing is that isn’t a card game. But, I think it has already beaten the Dreadfleet low-bar.
Oggthrok wrote: I see this thread is still trucking, with the two sides basically boiling down to “I love this game, so it cant be a bust” versus “it isn’t as expansive or popular as 40k, the most expansive and popular war game in the world, so what’s the point?”
It got me thinking, what *is* a “total bust” from a GW perspective? A lot of games have come and gone over the years. I think I can provide one perfect example of a total bust: Dreadfleet.
Dreadfleet wasn’t in 28mm scale, nor was it in scale with any other game GW made. It could have been a reboot of Man O’ War, but it wasn’t, so the fans of the old game had little to pull them in. Fans willing to try something new would go on to discover it actually isn’t an especially good game either. Piles of them sat at my FLGS at 2/3rd off for years, haunting the clearance shelf. It was never revisited, no expansions were made, and it was never really discussed again.
*That* is, to me, a total bust.
Then there’s the loads off oddball specialist games, like Warmaster, the various Epics, Aeronautica Imperialis, Blood Bowl, Necromunda... all beloved by many over the decades, but not big enough sellers to keep them from going OOP for long periods of time.
On that level, AT18 will likely be like it’s original incarnation - beloved by many, popular for years, maybe a slow boil like Age of Sigmar was, growing in popularity when the range is a little wider. It will never be as popular as 40k, because literally nothing is that isn’t a card game. But, I think it has already beaten the Dreadfleet low-bar.
Ahhhhhhhhh!!! Dreadfleet! The wound never healed.
Now that you mention it , there is one giant similarity. People wanted dreadfleet to be manowar. People want AT to be epic. Maybe thats the “total bust” element?
Spectral Ceramite wrote: My diversity is actually diverse, a different faction with the same pretty much everything apart from a few rules is not diverse its minuscule. I will just wait out for BFG if it comes then.
In my group, there's plenty of diversity. It comes from our painting, our backstory, our chosen tactics. Different rules aren't necessary.
[Battlefleet Gothic] also was a thing (and supposed to be coming back in a couple of years).
At no point have Forge World put a time frame on it. Or even confirmed it's a definite thing. In fact, the opposite - it's not currently being planned, as it would require any support for all other Specialist Games to be withdrawn for 18-24 months, which they're not willing to do at this point.
How big were the troops, if there were any at all.
There were no troop models at all in battlefleet gothic. Fighters were tiny specs.
And those fighters themselves dwarf the aircraft used in 40k. I suppose the Blast Markers, representing debris and gas clouds caused by damage, would include troops and ship crew amongst their constituent parts.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/23 00:16:15
Pancakey wrote: Ahhhhhhhhh!!! Dreadfleet! The wound never healed. Now that you mention it , there is one giant similarity. People wanted dreadfleet to be manowar. People want AT to be epic. Maybe thats the “total bust” element?
Right? I still smart over Dreadfleet - I was in the school of people being delighted just to have it as a stand-alone game. It was so all-inclusive, with all of the terrain and styles of ships and accessories, a marvelous value!
...For a really mediocre game no one wants to play once, let alone twice...
But, and I mean no insult to Man O' War fans, but I have to disagree on Dreadfleet and Adeptus Titanicus being sister ships in fans really wanting them to make something else.
At the time Dreadfleet came out NetEpic existed to keep Epic gaming alive, and Epic Armageddon was still enjoyed by very active and vocal fans, with people 3-D printing units and eagerly trading models on Ebay. By the time it was clear an Adeptus Titanicus reboot was coming, the pent up desire was vocal, with the only criticism being that people didn't just want Titans, they want a whole product line. The response was so loud that Forgeworld, who had intended a boutique niche's niche game like Aeronautica Imperialis in resin, actually got GW to authorize expensive plastic kits, forcasting a lasting support and sales expectation.
Man O' War on the other hand... if anyone has kept the dream alive, I haven't encountered them. I don't recall people making clones of the miniatures or supporting fan-based versions of the ruleset. It was like "It would be better if this was a reboot of the old game... but no one was really excited about a reboot either."
I could be wrong though, and I'm enormously biased, because I do want Adeptus Titanicus to be so successful that one day we do see glorious little tiny Land Raiders and Predators and Legion marines stomping about at their giant iron feet.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fajita Fan wrote: I bought that stupid game and never finished the models.
Same. I even have one of those foam box inserts to keep the ships safe, but I can never quite get myself to finish... One day in retirement I’ll be sitting at the home, finally slathering red on that Empire ship, while my peers ask why a pirate ship is fire engine red, and I’ll say “because that’s how they painted it in White Dwarf!”
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/23 00:37:35
Man O War kind of died at a time before the internet was big and in a time when GW was a massive part of the market only. So basically it died and I don't think there was the network setup to really keep it going. Granted you could argue the same for Bloodbowl; but might be that the nature of Bloodbowl meant that its tournament scene sort of kept it alive.
Basically I think Man O War was a great concept, but lacked the organisation and ease of communication to keep any form of it easily alive before fans had drifted into other games.
That said I'm not aware of many games that have come after. In fact the only one I know for certain was Uncharted Seas by Spartan Games which was one of their first games and it did well; until SG killed it by basically both ignoring it and also missing several of their own news/release deadlines and just shelving the game until sales fell to nothing. It didn't help that alongside that their sculpting and casting methods improved dramatically and multiple fleets had older style models that really showed their age against newer ones - again a reason sales stifled as people waited for better sculpts that rarely if never came.
Man o’ war was kind of an ok game. It was never a big game for gw though. All the models apart from the war galleys in the starter set were metal (with plastic masts). I never bought dreadfleet, I’m glad to say, so I don’t know if it even shared mechanics.
Epic was a full game system. The first true white dwarf batrep was epic with Andy Chambers’ imperial soup beating Jes Goodwin’s Orks. There was a ton of stuff in plastic as well as metal.
So there’s no real comparison. Back then GW had a bunch of games but they weren’t all equal. Epic lost it’s shop space to Lotr when that came along (IIRC), which is kind of understandable.
The problem they’d have now is building the full range again. It’d be a hell of a lot of stuff. I don’t even know how they’d do it. The plan seems to be to create more titans, like the nemesis, for now. I don’t know how long they can keep that up for to be honest.
Honestly the way I'd do Epic now is as a series of multi-unit sprues. Much like how they did infantry back in the day. Infantry back then were all in a single box of plastic on one or two sprues which would build you pretty much all the various infantry options for the faction.
Today they could easily do that and have a vehicle sprue or two. So instead of a blister of lemon russes you'd get an Imperial Armoured Division box which would have russes, demolishers, hellhounds, hydras etc.... With something like a superheavy tank being a separate single purchase on its own (or in a twin pack).
That would at least let them cover a single faction with perhaps a handful of sprues. Of course it means a lot of balance testing before to put viable numbers on each sprue and a lot of unit design to make the units fit on the sprue - so its still a significant investment.
Making Epic, given that almost all of their models are CADed anyway, shouldn’t be terribly difficult and I absolutely agree each box should come with several different models. It’s so much easier to downscale models rather than upscale.
