Galef wrote: For those wondering, I just checked the GW website and it indeed says the Triumvirate included an 80mm round base. However, looking at the photos in comparison to the other models, this HAS to be a Typo. It's the 60mm (War Walker/Wraithlord) surely.
Can anyone with the model confirm?
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It also says that Yvraine's oval base is 105x70mm.
Galef wrote: For those wondering, I just checked the GW website and it indeed says the Triumvirate included an 80mm round base. However, looking at the photos in comparison to the other models, this HAS to be a Typo. It's the 60mm (War Walker/Wraithlord) surely.
Can anyone with the model confirm?
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It is an 80mm
Edit i have it, i've seen 10 other people with it, its large. I'll take a pic in a minute
Galef wrote: For those wondering, I just checked the GW website and it indeed says the Triumvirate included an 80mm round base. However, looking at the photos in comparison to the other models, this HAS to be a Typo. It's the 60mm (War Walker/Wraithlord) surely.
Can anyone with the model confirm?
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It also says that Yvraine's oval base is 105x70mm.
Surely that's a typo?
Nope its correct, b.c she has a dress that goes back like 2"
It has come to my attention many people dont have this trio kit lol.
Ok, fair enough. But I find it odd that the photo on GW's own site is clearly on the 60mm (just look at how much space is left on the edge of your model's base vs the space left on that one).
So it had to be on a 60mm base at some point, which should make it acceptable.
That could have been a prototype and they decided to move it to an 80mm after pictures were taken. The painted model was most likely done 6months to a year before its release.
Heck, they might not have even had an 80mm base when they painted it.
Amishprn86 wrote: That could have been a prototype and they decided to move it to an 80mm after pictures were taken. The painted model was most likely done 6months to a year before its release.
Heck, they might not have even had an 80mm base when they painted it.
Which is bizarre and frustrating as someone who converts a lot and has a decent eye for base size. But given the nature of the Yncarne's rules, a bigger base can be a good thing for her (bigger ignore moral bubble).
Amishprn86 wrote: That could have been a prototype and they decided to move it to an 80mm after pictures were taken. The painted model was most likely done 6months to a year before its release.
Heck, they might not have even had an 80mm base when they painted it.
Which is bizarre and frustrating as someone who converts a lot and has a decent eye for base size. But given the nature of the Yncarne's rules, a bigger base can be a good thing for her (bigger ignore moral bubble).
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It is a good thing for it to have a bigger one. And honestly it is nicer on the 80mm i'm glad they went with it.
And I imagine it will help prevent it tip over, which is great for my model since its metal.
Regarding my earlier question on adding the Yncarne to non-Ynnari CWE: the biggest issue I see right now is that 4 of the 6 powers avavilable only affect Ynnari units. So unless I plan on using them on the Yncarne herself, it looks like only the MW generators will be viable
Personally, I wouldn't object to anyone using a 60mm base for the Yncarne. 80mm just seems excessive.
Regardless, I've got a question - how do you think Yvraine compares to a Ynnari Farseer? As in, if I want a Ynnari Farseer, would I be a fool for not just taking Yvraine instead?
Regardless, I've got a question - how do you think Yvraine compares to a Ynnari Farseer? As in, if I want a Ynnari Farseer, would I be a fool for not just taking Yvraine instead?
Yvraine wins in melee generally speaking, but the Farseer wins as a caster (and in wounds and mobility on a Skyrunner).
The main argument in Yvraine's favor is that you are going to need an Ynnari character anyway to unlock Revenant spells... At that point you might as well take both if you want an Ynnari Farseer.
Regardless, I've got a question - how do you think Yvraine compares to a Ynnari Farseer? As in, if I want a Ynnari Farseer, would I be a fool for not just taking Yvraine instead?
Yvraine wins in melee generally speaking, but the Farseer wins as a caster (and in wounds and mobility on a Skyrunner).
The main argument in Yvraine's favor is that you are going to need an Ynnari character anyway to unlock Revenant spells... At that point you might as well take both if you want an Ynnari Farseer.
Well, I was actually contemplating The Yncarne. So that leaves me with the choice of Yvraine or a Farseer (who'll be on foot for model reasons). Or an Autarch, I suppose.
karandrasss wrote: How about Ynnari Wraith Host? I'm planning a list but it feels like there are too many matchups where we can be kited so we can't charge until turn 3.
Also, does anyone have the math on Storm of Whispers? It looks awful.
Storm of Whispers averages 0.5 wounds per unit in range, with a probability distribution as below for a single unit:
To get the same average damage as smite you need to have 4 units in range, the more units in range, however the closer to average your roll becomes. With Smite you have a 66% chance of doing 2 or more wounds, with 4 units in range of Whispers you still haven't caught up, with a 62% chance, but it's very similar and has a much higher spike potential (none 0 chance of >3 wounds). If you are using a Jetlock Council you can get a very large number of units in range, let's say you manage 8 (which is not unreasonable), your average increases to 4 mortal wounds and your chance of doing 2 or more goes up to 93%. This is not a reason to run the council, but if you are running one for other reasons then this power is a really good choice, giving them a 7.5 MW/turn output at 7+ models with just Whispers and Smite.
I think for this list they provide decent damage, suitability and mobility. They have longer range than guardians and can do more vs other infantry compared to rangers.
The 4++ from Asurman make them less vulnerable from weapons with AP.
But probably the main reason is that i want to use my new Asurman model.
I think for this list they provide decent damage, suitability and mobility. They have longer range than guardians and can do more vs other infantry compared to rangers.
The 4++ from Asurman make them less vulnerable from weapons with AP.
But probably the main reason is that i want to use my new Asurman model.
Great, I won't suggest chaning those then!
You could drop your Storm Guardians from the Ynarri detachment and convert the Warlock to a foot Warlock, drop one Wraithblade and then you could add a Wraithseer. If you can save 5 more points somewhere you could even give him a Shuriken Cannon. Take an Aritfact of Death and pop the Lost Shroud on him, now you have a supreme command so extra CP and better support for your Wraiths.
Also, have you considered Sword Wraithblades protected by Shield of Ynnead instead of the axe variants?
Note that only two thirds of a DA squad benefit from Asurman, as the Exarch already has a 4++ and has 2W.
That said, I wholly appove of lots of DA shrines and Asurman - it's how most of my armies are. I don't find them points-effective, but I do find them fun. But then, a lot of my fun involves using a lot of different Aspects in conjunction. with them.
If the DAs are just bodies to hold ground, Guardians do that better. If they're there to kill stuff, reconsider giving the Exarch 2xASC - it's a 20% increase in firepower for the squad at a very low point cost.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Your Wraithguard feel like they're just begging to eat any anti-TEQ weapons the opponent has. You're running a bunch of GEQ and some backfield tanks - so the Wraithguard will be exposed, and be the only viable target for a lot of weapons systems.
Eldar Ynnari Spearhead (+1CP) The Yncarne w/ Ancestor's Grace, Shield of Ynnead - 337(!)
Farseer w/ Witchblade, Song of Ynnead, Word of the Phoenix, Gaze of Ynnead - 110 Walker of Many Paths 5 Dark Reapers w/ Exarch - 170
5 Dark Reapers w/ Exarch - 170
Support Weapon w/ Shadow Weaver - 37
(Alliance of Agony and Exalted of Ynnead are used to get the Haemonculus and Farseer a Warlord trait, respectively.)
Wanted to try out the Yncarne, but since I'm currently short on Ravagers I used the opportunity to add some Dark Reapers to my list instead.
The Archons will go with the Lhamaeans in the Venom, the Farseer will sit back and use Word of the Phoenix to keep the Reapers alive, and the Yncanre will try and be worth his cost.
Thinking about it, I'm almost certainly not making the best use out of the Ynnari army ability (sadly, it seems to be best for melee Eldar and Harlequins, both of which I lack). I'll probably have a go at making a Wych-based list at some point but for now I've stuck with units I'm more familiar with.
I think for this list they provide decent damage, suitability and mobility. They have longer range than guardians and can do more vs other infantry compared to rangers.
The 4++ from Asurman make them less vulnerable from weapons with AP.
But probably the main reason is that i want to use my new Asurman model.
Great, I won't suggest chaning those then!
You could drop your Storm Guardians from the Ynarri detachment and convert the Warlock to a foot Warlock, drop one Wraithblade and then you could add a Wraithseer. If you can save 5 more points somewhere you could even give him a Shuriken Cannon. Take an Aritfact of Death and pop the Lost Shroud on him, now you have a supreme command so extra CP and better support for your Wraiths.
Also, have you considered Sword Wraithblades protected by Shield of Ynnead instead of the axe variants?
Well i like to have extra troops, it make me feel more solid vs diferent things. I think you are right, wraitblades with axes are not gaining anything from the Ynnari, the idea is for them to soak the enemy damage, but with protect and fortune they will do that better. Ynnari wraitblades are even slower than the CWE and they really need transport to be anything more than just distraction.
Yvraine's powers probably Unbind Souls and Favoured of Ynnead
Warlock power either gaze of ynnead or Word of the Phoenix
Yvraine and the Visarch will ride in serpent with wraithblades.
Your points seem strange to me, why is venom 70 pts and why is warlock on bike 70 ?
But i see you run into my kind of problem, not enough anti-vehicle weapons.
Yvraine's powers probably Unbind Souls and Favoured of Ynnead
Warlock power either gaze of ynnead or Word of the Phoenix
Yvraine and the Visarch will ride in serpent with wraithblades.
I'm still not convinced by Ynnari Dark Eldar.
- Soulburst is basically worthless from turn 3 onwards (thanks, GW).
- The Visarch doesn't really bring anything more than a standard Archon (outside of being slightly more survivable), yet cost an absurdly high amount.
- Psychic powers could theoretically be useful for wyches. However, the unit that would benefit most would be Reavers - which are far faster than Yvraine. So in order to reliably buff them, you'd also need to include an Eldar detachment with a Jetbike Farseer (necessitating 2 of the overpriced Ynnari characters), at which point you might as well just abandon Reavers altogether and use Shining Spears instead.
- Plus, whilst the psychic powers are potentially useful, you're taking them instead of other, more consistent buffs - and for a greatly increased cost.
I don't know, to me it seems like DE are better suited to acting as fire-support for Ynnari lists or spamming cheap units so that your opponent has to play whack-a-mole with the Yncarne - and in both cases they're better off not being Ynnari themselves.
I think Ynnari massed reaver jet bikes have some legs. Give them hypex or the plus +1 toughness drug and move 26 inches then use the strat to allow them to to charge after
Elfric wrote: I think Ynnari massed reaver jet bikes have some legs. Give them hypex or the plus +1 toughness drug and move 26 inches then use the strat to allow them to to charge after
But why use that over Red Grief - which applies to all your Reavers, doesn't cost 2CPs to use and (as a bonus) gives your Succubus access to a worthwhile weapon?
Battalion 936pts
HQ Succubus with Agoniser and Archite Glaive
Yvraine
Troops
5 x Kabs with blaster
5 x Kabs with blaster
8 x Wyches with Razor Flails
Fast
9 x reaver jetbikes with 3 blasters and 3 grav talons
Flyer
Void Raven Bomber
Raider with disintegrators
2 x Venom
Outsider 811pts
HQ Visarch
Troupe (Hunger Blade)
Troops
10 x Troupes with Caresses
Fast
2 x Skyweaver with Haywire + Zephyr
2 x Skyweaver with Haywire + Zephyr
2 x Skyweaver with Haywire + Zephyr
1 x Starweaver
How does that look from a pure single dex point of view. I would probably give the Succubus adrenalight, the bikes I would give +1 toughness and the wyches I'd give hypex or +1 strength
Elfric wrote: I think Ynnari massed reaver jet bikes have some legs. Give them hypex or the plus +1 toughness drug and move 26 inches then use the strat to allow them to to charge after
But why use that over Red Grief - which applies to all your Reavers, doesn't cost 2CPs to use and (as a bonus) gives your Succubus access to a worthwhile weapon?
Yes I know what you mean but I'm looking at this from a pure Ynnari point of view
I have doubts about melee units with movement of 5, even in Wave Serpents. I use Banshees often (to be honest, I haven't fielded a list without them since Index, usually 2x5 with Executioners to block shooting units - might as well say I use them always) and I would probably like me +1WS without investing into Warlocks and a 5++ to make them even more of a tarpit unit. But they're not very effective against non-elite units (and units with their own invul), they just lack the volume of attacks. As for Striking First, If I would want Banshees to strike first for some reason and almost always, there is that character Ynnari can't take...
Don't play DE so no idea on Wyches, but 5++/morale immunity on them does sound appealing to me.
I still think the Codex itself is pretty meh. I would be interested only if characters get cheaper. Yvraine as a Farseer/Succubus multiclass is an interesting comparison I guess, but in my opinion, you don't want units to pay for what they might not want to do. And you don't want important buffer to rush forward with an assault unit. Compare Yvraine to say, Eldrad - Eldrad is better than regular Farseer in melee - better save, better toughness, a big stick; but it is more of a bonus to his powers, you probably want him in melee only sometimes, maybe to finish off something. You don't want to pay for that extra points. But you really don't pay them - for his price Eldrad IS a better Farseer and everything else in his stats just increases his survivability, and you want that. Simply put, if I would choose between cheapo Farseer or Yvraine I'd probably prefer a Farseer, even tho I don't get the cool sword.
And there is the lack of options of delivery. Ynnari have no Matchless Agility, no Quicken, re-rolls for charges, nothing to strap on top of your melee units to fix this. What kind of melee army is that? Gimme some speed dammit.
karandrasss wrote: Thoughts on the FLG article? Loving Wraithblades but not sure Howling Banshees and Wyches care much about going Ynnari.
I can see kinda the appeal of Wraithblades. Not sure about Banshees. Shining Spears seem better to me, especially given the lack of mobility buffs in Ynnari. Not seeing the appeal of Ynnari Wyches at all.
The thing is, Eldar just seem to have more and vastly better buffs.
I don't know, I get the appeal if you want to play Ynnari for flavour reasons but compared to regular Eldar they just seem outright inferior.
karandrasss wrote: Thoughts on the FLG article? Loving Wraithblades but not sure Howling Banshees and Wyches care much about going Ynnari.
The article contains American style optimism, i respect they try to find good everywhere, but even they admit there is more bad than good in this rework.
I play often with blades and guard, their main issue is the lack of speed and Ynnari blades are even slower and they don`t get much more durable. Small units of blades 5-6 don`t have impact even with double fight and i don`t see them doing better now.
Howling banshees are overpriced and they provide more utility, they are not game winning units.
Wyches are decent, but Ynnari don`t really make them much better.
The real issue is that the stratagems are to situational, you have very little good ones and the characters are seriously overpriced for what they do.
Even though it is probably hyperbole, I'm glad it mirrors my own opinion of utilizing wyches and wraithblades. I also looked at banshees last night as I think we're going to see a big surge of tau in th emeta and stopping overwatch will be important.
bullyboy wrote: Even though it is probably hyperbole, I'm glad it mirrors my own opinion of utilizing wyches and wraithblades. I also looked at banshees last night as I think we're going to see a big surge of tau in th emeta and stopping overwatch will be important.
That is true, but do Banshees do more work in Ynarri than in Craftworld, like Biel Tan for example? I'm probably in more agreement with Marin for most of Ynarri, there are things that 'work' in Ynarri, but those same units also 'work' as good or better in their original codex. I found myself reading the FLG article and thinking, sure, that unit is ok, but it's better with it's own codex support.
Seeing as how you can include the only original Ynarri units (the characters) in any Aeldari detatchment without breaking it, the real question is are the Ynarri WL traits, strats, and relics worth what you have to give up to use them. IMO not really.
Biel-Tan doesn't buff Aspects output really, unless they wield loads of Shuriken weaponry (which only 2 of them do). At least it doesn't do it in a straightforward manner. Eldar Codex logic.
Shadenuat wrote: Biel-Tan doesn't buff Aspects output really, unless they wield loads of Shuriken weaponry (which only 2 of them do). At least it doesn't do it in a straightforward manner. Eldar Codex logic.
It's more for the strat on the aspect warriors than the re-roll shuriken and ld buff.
Well kind of, because +1 to hit is your faction ability, rerolls is from the Visarch who is also good at fighting.
That re-roll to charge has opportunity cost. Ynnari has some good warlord traits. Ynnari can heal/revive and get 5++ without spending CP. And this 5++ applicable to the Wave Serpents you put your Wraiths in.
+1 is not an ability, it happens if you kill a unit. Not all armies might allow you that and not every turn either. It is not a given. Neither is 5++, because to have it in close combat you'd have to charge Yvraine too or stay close (so no consolidating). Stuff like Protect or Spirit Shield OTOH works just until your next turn, which is good.
To keep 5++ on Serpents you'd want another fast moving caster, so back to Ynnari not being expensive.
Also I have a nagging feeling that 5++ was intended for Infantry and Bikers and they might fix that.
The more I play the more I lean into Ynnari are inherently a biker force. I'm trying to make a 3 bean casserole list, just to see if it can be ok and I'm finding that the bikes are simply the best choice. They have inherent mobility, due to being bikes and tend to be close combat oriented.
Reavers we've discussed plenty, but are at about twice the effectiveness in Ynarri lists.
Shining Spears kinda break even (better odds of hitting, but no Jinx), again, all hashed out already.
Skyweavers though keep pulling to be Ynarri every time I include them. Ynarri is their only source of rerolls to hit in shooting (through Ancestor's Grace) and a good source of reroll to wound in combat if the Troupe master is dead/out of range/you didn't take one. They also don't lose much as the Masque Forms benefit the Skyweavers less than the rest of the 'quins. For this reason, I'm wanting them to be Ynarri a lot, which means I am playing Ynarri Reavers and Skyweavers... so I might as well try to add the CWE component and make the Yncarne work.
Shadenuat wrote: You don't like 3++ and double move on your Skyweavers?
3++ is nice, but not massively necessary. And the double move is OK, but not better than hit better in combat, as getting there and not being very effective isn't great. Neither is better than rerolls to hit with Haywire.
Here's some information on Skyweavers CC efficiency as Frozen Stars vs Ynnari, GH is Great Harlequin, so the added bonus is the reroll one to hit from his aura. Ynnari harlequins are assumed to have reroll 1s as well, as they are the best target for Ancestor's Grace and/or could be near a Ynnari reroll 1s bubble.
Other than against maybe Knight armies, you can usually build your list so that you have elements that can kill something to activate soul burst. Definitely don't do pure Ynnari, unless you're running a lockdown list that cares less about SfD.
Yvraine should be in close combat. You're paying for her close combat abilities. A shieldseer on bike is great and I don't see it as a knock of Yvraine. It keeps its Runes of the Farseer for better smites. Also getting a lot of value from it with the relic pistol.
Yeah they might nerf Shield, or they might realize they overdid the nerfs. Seriously what is up with that Incubi stratagem?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shadenuat wrote: You don't like 3++ and double move on your Skyweavers?
On Skyweavers sure, but people are acting like 3++ on Starweavers is a huge loss if you went Ynnari. I don't care about double move on it, prefer Fire and Fade, and a 3" spell just feels so unwieldy.
I do believe Skyweavers lose a lot by going Ynnari. Cegorach's Gaze is amazing, so are Sombre Sentinels and Fire and Fade.
Honestly i will never play Ynnari Skyweavers, Soaring Spite or FS (shooting vs melee) and a 3++ is very important.
You guys should look at Wraithseers, its something i want to try and might buy (I dont own one yet) but everything looks like you can make a really tanky version, now that its T8 and has Construct keyword, they seem almost a must for Ynnari (At least from a overlooking PoV)
After failure with Corsairs I don't believe in FW to even consider building anything with their models. And I am waiting for Ynnari FAQ, they just might cover Wraithseers there too.
karandrasss wrote: The Wraithseer meme is so weird. Yes, you can make a tough single model unit, but it's not gonna do much.
It has 2 cannons with 3+/5++/5+++ takes 1/2 damage, T8, and powers, it will do something.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shadenuat wrote: After failure with Corsairs I don't believe in FW to even consider building anything with their models. And I am waiting for Ynnar FAQ, they just might cover Wraithseers there too.
Just just faq it so its T8 and has wraith construct Keyword, i would argue its safe to use for awhile.
Shadenuat wrote: You don't like 3++ and double move on your Skyweavers?
3++ is nice, but not massively necessary. And the double move is OK, but not better than hit better in combat, as getting there and not being very effective isn't great.
It is, however, substantially better than not getting there at all.
Amishprn86 wrote: Honestly i will never play Ynnari Skyweavers, Soaring Spite or FS (shooting vs melee) and a 3++ is very important.
You guys should look at Wraithseers, its something i want to try and might buy (I dont own one yet) but everything looks like you can make a really tanky version, now that its T8 and has Construct keyword, they seem almost a must for Ynnari (At least from a overlooking PoV)
We've discussed the Wraithseer a lot already. Go back a page or two. Ynnari Skyweavers are better at shooting AND better at combat than frozen stars. They are better at shooting than Soaring Spite except when advancing when they are very slightly worse.
Ynnari have Fire and Fade so you aren't losing that. I think the more accurate shooting and better melee generally make up for the other losses.
I've got a bit of an odd question. I'd like to use a Ynnari Farseer on foot (realised it's a good fit for an old model), ideally with Word of the Phoenix and Gaze of Ynnead.
Are there any good units for a foot Farseer to use Word of the Phoenix on?
Amishprn86 wrote: Honestly i will never play Ynnari Skyweavers, Soaring Spite or FS (shooting vs melee) and a 3++ is very important.
You guys should look at Wraithseers, its something i want to try and might buy (I dont own one yet) but everything looks like you can make a really tanky version, now that its T8 and has Construct keyword, they seem almost a must for Ynnari (At least from a overlooking PoV)
We've discussed the Wraithseer a lot already. Go back a page or two. Ynnari Skyweavers are better at shooting AND better at combat than frozen stars. They are better at shooting than Soaring Spite except when advancing when they are very slightly worse.
Ynnari have Fire and Fade so you aren't losing that. I think the more accurate shooting and better melee generally make up for the other losses.
I didnt see anything about math with it at all, off memory it was "its a good start" was the end of that convo and "its good for 100pts"
So unless i missed it, IDK what you are talking about, All i said was im reinforcing i like wraith build Ynnari better with a wraithseer to go with it.
Shadenuat wrote: You don't like 3++ and double move on your Skyweavers?
3++ is nice, but not massively necessary. And the double move is OK, but not better than hit better in combat, as getting there and not being very effective isn't great.
It is, however, substantially better than not getting there at all.
I cant remember the last time i use Double move honestly, 16" minimum move with a 24" gun, thats 40" and you can still advance and shoot. Not saying Ynnari is better or worst, just saying you dont need the double move.
Shadenuat wrote: You don't like 3++ and double move on your Skyweavers?
3++ is nice, but not massively necessary. And the double move is OK, but not better than hit better in combat, as getting there and not being very effective isn't great.
It is, however, substantially better than not getting there at all.
I don't find the double move is needed most of the time. Skyweavers don't need to hit combat T1 usually, the shooting is more important and Ynnari buffs that.
Amishprn86 wrote: Honestly i will never play Ynnari Skyweavers, Soaring Spite or FS (shooting vs melee) and a 3++ is very important.
You guys should look at Wraithseers, its something i want to try and might buy (I dont own one yet) but everything looks like you can make a really tanky version, now that its T8 and has Construct keyword, they seem almost a must for Ynnari (At least from a overlooking PoV)
We've discussed the Wraithseer a lot already. Go back a page or two. Ynnari Skyweavers are better at shooting AND better at combat than frozen stars. They are better at shooting than Soaring Spite except when advancing when they are very slightly worse.
Ynnari have Fire and Fade so you aren't losing that. I think the more accurate shooting and better melee generally make up for the other losses.
I didnt see anything about math with it at all, off memory it was "its a good start" was the end of that convo and "its good for 100pts"
So unless i missed it, IDK what you are talking about, All i said was im reinforcing i like wraith build Ynnari better with a wraithseer to go with it.
Sorry if I misunderstood. The points you made seemed to me a rehash of the earlier discussion, probably a reading fail on my part. We talked about what relics and WL traits it can have and some builds that incorporate it.
Shadenuat wrote: Biel-Tan doesn't buff Aspects output really, unless they wield loads of Shuriken weaponry (which only 2 of them do). At least it doesn't do it in a straightforward manner. Eldar Codex logic.
Was referring to the relic, WL trait, and specifically the strat. Particularly when taking Banshees and psykers to buff them. It's not as direct and blatant a buff as Alaitoc, but Biel Tan is one of the better Craftworlds out there.
Biel Tan Bashees with Court of the Young King getting +5 to charge rolls, plus Quicken on a warlock with the Relic to reroll failed tests. And throwing an automatic 'Guide' using the WL trait on some Scat bikes or something. Not bad at all.
This isn't Ynarri specific, but it does involve Yvraine. I've been wondering how well we can smite spam with the various disciplines available to us. It seems we can do OK. Using Eldrad, Yvraine and a Shadowseer we can get ~12 Mortal Wounds a turn (failure to cast included in the averages). That's using Seer Council, but no other stats (no reroll etc.) and without Runes of the Farseer.
Creeping Dementia wrote: Biel Tan Bashees with Court of the Young King getting +5 to charge rolls, plus Quicken on a warlock with the Relic to reroll failed tests. And throwing an automatic 'Guide' using the WL trait on some Scat bikes or something. Not bad at all.
That's a bit of an overkill, with a WS Banshees can do turn 1 charges just with Matchless Agility. Usually they are close enough to never fail a charge.
And yeah, Biel-Tan, if you use everything (trait, relic, stratagem) and take a lot of shuriken is not bad at all. But it leaves a lot of Aspects over the board so to speak. Biel-Tan Aspects aren't inherently better than other Aspects, like, say, Alaitoc Rangers when compared to any other Rangers. And aside from +2 Charge stratagem, they don't have anything specific for them like other units like Guardians, Rangers, etc.
Drager wrote: This isn't Ynarri specific, but it does involve Yvraine. I've been wondering how well we can smite spam with the various disciplines available to us. It seems we can do OK. Using Eldrad, Yvraine and a Shadowseer we can get ~12 Mortal Wounds a turn (failure to cast included in the averages). That's using Seer Council, but no other stats (no reroll etc.) and without Runes of the Farseer.
I love our 2 Power (well 3 Power if Eldrad) Psykers (when compared to exploding Warlocks). Good amount of wounds, extra rules, and even some ability to fight in combat. So yeah, combining Eldrad, Yvraine and Shadowseer sounds awesome to me. It's kinda like running multiple Thousand Sons sorcs I guess.
Drager wrote: This isn't Ynarri specific, but it does involve Yvraine. I've been wondering how well we can smite spam with the various disciplines available to us. It seems we can do OK. Using Eldrad, Yvraine and a Shadowseer we can get ~12 Mortal Wounds a turn (failure to cast included in the averages). That's using Seer Council, but no other stats (no reroll etc.) and without Runes of the Farseer.
I love our 2 Power (well 3 Power if Eldrad) Psykers (when compared to exploding Warlocks). Good amount of wounds, extra rules, and even some ability to fight in combat. So yeah, combining Eldrad, Yvraine and Shadowseer sounds awesome to me. It's kinda like running multiple Thousand Sons sorcs I guess.
It's roughly equivalent to the smite from 6 1kSons sorcerers (including +1 to cast and smite not degrading). In real game scenario terms, it's roughly the same as Ahriman and 3 Sorcerer's, which seems solid.
Drager wrote: This isn't Ynarri specific, but it does involve Yvraine. I've been wondering how well we can smite spam with the various disciplines available to us. It seems we can do OK. Using Eldrad, Yvraine and a Shadowseer we can get ~12 Mortal Wounds a turn (failure to cast included in the averages). That's using Seer Council, but no other stats (no reroll etc.) and without Runes of the Farseer.
Eldars is not chaos, we don`t have durable and cheap troops and our heroes are more squashy.
karandrasss wrote: Ynnari Skyweavers gotta be worse than Dreaming Shadow, right? Then there's Cegorach's Jest.
Ynnari is worst for Skyweavers now in almost every way. They lose way to good of stratagems like the 3++, shoot when they fallback, etc.., with the ability to move and advance still shooting and charging, even midnight is better IMO, b.c Skyweavers are not a melee power house unit, but they can melee, if you use their melee as utility once all vehicles are gone or if they dont have vehicle, combine Rising Crescendo with "Add D6 to fallbacks and consolidates are 6" over 3" that is very strong especially when you add Fly, now they will want to fallback for sure, allowing you to get free shots (b.c youa re just going to fallback, shoot, and charge each turn anyways)
Finally if you are going full melee, Skyweavers as Frozen stars are still better, +1 attack and +1 to wound with re-roll wounds via Troupe Master will be better than +1 to hit re-roll hits of 1, It ends up being the same amount of hits, but now you are wounding better and still can re-roll wounds and you can attack twice as Quins.
karandrasss wrote: Ynnari Skyweavers gotta be worse than Dreaming Shadow, right? Then there's Cegorach's Jest.
Ynnari is worst for Skyweavers now in almost every way. They lose way to good of stratagems like the 3++, shoot when they fallback, etc.., with the ability to move and advance still shooting and charging, even midnight is better IMO, b.c Skyweavers are not a melee power house unit, but they can melee, if you use their melee as utility once all vehicles are gone or if they dont have vehicle, combine Rising Crescendo with "Add D6 to fallbacks and consolidates are 6" over 3" that is very strong especially when you add Fly, now they will want to fallback for sure, allowing you to get free shots (b.c youa re just going to fallback, shoot, and charge each turn anyways)
Finally if you are going full melee, Skyweavers as Frozen stars are still better, +1 attack and +1 to wound with re-roll wounds via Troupe Master will be better than +1 to hit re-roll hits of 1, It ends up being the same amount of hits, but now you are wounding better and still can re-roll wounds and you can attack twice as Quins.
I think you are underestimating the Ynarri and overstating the case for Quins. Fight twice is obviously great, but Skyweavers are primary shooting, secondary combat, so they gain less from that than other things in the Harlequin book. They lose the 3++ inv strat, true, which is a pain, but at the same time not necessary to make them work. Losing Jest is also annoying, but not the end of the world.
Ynnari don't lose Rising Crescendo so can still advance and charge or fallback and charge, so that's not a loss for the Ynnari.
You don't really need the extra movement most of the time, it's a crutch for not thinking ahead, but it's not a big lift, so I don't see that as a big loss.
Frozen stars and Ynnari don't give the same amount of hits, Ynnari is more consistent. Additionally, Ynarri can reroll ones in Shooting, which is huge for Skyweavers. Look at the benefits as well as the losses and it's much closer than you think. I fyou want them primarily for Haywire, Ynnari is definitely better.
I never said they lose Rising Crescendo, i said with that combine with other traits and stratagems, you can have utility with them other than just pure shooting. The stratagems out weighs it for me completely. If you want to sit back and only shoot and do nothing else, then sure re-roll 1's to hit HWC are fine with Ynnari, i have never had a game where i did that, i even go up against 3 knight lists. Their mobility and the ability to be where they want is way to viable for me to sit back and shoot.
If i want to sit back and shoot i'll just take CWE and Dark Reapers, at least i get Jinx and Doom that way, Kight maxing a 4++ with Doom and Jinx is better than Skyweaver svs pure shooting. DR with fast math is 14 wounds were Skyweavers is 8 wounds vs a Knight with 3+/4++, Skyweavers re-roll 1's, DR Doom and Jink with Re-roll 1's.
Skyweavers without Doom via shooting has lots a lot of damage, you take them now for shooting and utility, something Ynnari doesnt do well IMO.
Ynnari Skyweavers don't seem that bad, honestly.
- With Glaves they have pretty decent melee ability, so they can at least make use of the +1 to hit.
- Likewise, Unbind Souls could be useful for them if they want to get close and personal with a unit.
- They might also be a decent target for Word of the Phoenix.
I don't think the benefits are outstanding but they're far from awful.
Amishprn86 wrote: I never said they lose Rising Crescendo, i said with that combine with other traits and stratagems, you can have utility with them other than just pure shooting.
Apologies, I misunderstood.
Amishprn86 wrote: The stratagems out weighs it for me completely. If you want to sit back and only shoot and do nothing else, then sure re-roll 1's to hit HWC are fine with Ynnari, i have never had a game where i did that, i even go up against 3 knight lists. Their mobility and the ability to be where they want is way to viable for me to sit back and shoot.
If i want to sit back and shoot i'll just take CWE and Dark Reapers, at least i get Jinx and Doom that way, Kight maxing a 4++ with Doom and Jinx is better than Skyweaver svs pure shooting. DR with fast math is 14 wounds were Skyweavers is 8 wounds vs a Knight with 3+/4++, Skyweavers re-roll 1's, DR Doom and Jink with Re-roll 1's.
Skyweavers without Doom via shooting has lots a lot of damage, you take them now for shooting and utility, something Ynnari doesnt do well IMO.
I wasn't talking about using them as a pure shooting unit. I think Ynnari do a combined role better than quins. Their mobility is lower, but still very high and their combat output is better than or equal to any masque, except when the quins unit fights twice. In addition their shooting is better.
Your numbers are off for your calculative against a 3+/4++ Knight. Skyweavers do 12.25 wounds with shooting haywire alone (unit of 6) with reroll 1s and can do another 7 in combat as Ynnari. DR do about 13.33 and require over 100 points extra in support and base cost. Für 100 de I can do 1 wound elsewhere. The DRs also have more points of failure (more spells needed) and even one not working drops then below the cheaper Skyweavers.
karandrasss wrote: How about the numbers for Skyweavers that shoot after they die?
Its a 50/50, that means you get 3 out of 6 to shoot on average, thats 3D6 more shots. With a CP re-roll it will make sure you get that 50/50 more easily and maybe 4/6 for 4D6, tho i would always bet on 3/6.
I think the base troupe is really the big winner from the Harlequin book as far as Ynnari goes.
Even still, I find giving up all the utility of the base Quin strats and Masque forms hard to do away with.
Units like Skyweavers benefit from the tactical flexibility and being locked into a CC specialist detachment just doesn't seem efficient or likely to win more games.
wannabmoy wrote: I think the base troupe is really the big winner from the Harlequin book as far as Ynnari goes.
Even still, I find giving up all the utility of the base Quin strats and Masque forms hard to do away with.
Units like Skyweavers benefit from the tactical flexibility and being locked into a CC specialist detachment just doesn't seem efficient or likely to win more games.
How so ?
In the beginning i was thinking about troupe without any upgrades who are terrible expensive. Than i realized the only good think is you get reroll to wounds and master do it too and it without the need of psychers or spending CP. You still need the starweavers to get close in most scenarios and you can`t use solitare. After that i realized i`m trying to make something like tactical marine better, the harlequin stratagems look better and masques are not much inferior to ynnari buffs. The only real argument is that you can use the Vissarch reroll, but is he really much better than great harlequin ?
I don’t get much time to play, so I’m hoping to throw this to the hive mind for some feedback. This is the 2k list I’m putting together:
Ynnari Craftworld’s supreme command:
Autarch on bike
Warlord- Lord of Rebirth. Hungering Blade+Banshee mask.
101
Warlock on bike
Shield of ynead
67
The Visarch
120
Ynnari Drukhari Batallion:
Yvraine
Ancestors Grace, unbind souls
132
Archon
Huskblade and blast Pistol (2nd warlord walker of many paths)
86
3x Kabalites
1 blaster in each
141
Reaver jetbikes
12 reavers 4xblaster+grav talon
308
5xVenom
Twin splinter rifles
325
Craftworld’s battalion: Siam Hann
Autarch on bike
Novalance and Banshee Mask
105
Farseer on bike
Doom, fortune
132
Warlock on bike
Protect/jinx
67
3xDire Avengers
Exarch with 2 catapults
174
Shining Spears
7spears, Exarch with Star Lance
240
Total:1998
The extra two Venoms are for the foot characters, the bike Autarchs ride around with the spears. The Ynnari warlock chases the Reavers. I’m not sure which Craftworld is optimal for the Eldar detachment.
Are there any glaring holes for an unknown meta?
GenericWoundwart wrote: I don’t get much time to play, so I’m hoping to throw this to the hive mind for some feedback. This is the 2k list I’m putting together:
Ynnari Craftworld’s supreme command:
Autarch on bike
Warlord- Lord of Rebirth. Hungering Blade+Banshee mask.
101
Warlock on bike
Shield of ynead
67
The Visarch
120
Ynnari Drukhari Batallion:
Yvraine
Ancestors Grace, unbind souls
132
Archon
Huskblade and blast Pistol (2nd warlord walker of many paths)
86
3x Kabalites
1 blaster in each
141
Reaver jetbikes
12 reavers 4xblaster+grav talon
308
5xVenom
Twin splinter rifles
325
Craftworld’s battalion: Siam Hann
Autarch on bike
Novalance and Banshee Mask
105
Farseer on bike
Doom, fortune
132
Warlock on bike
Protect/jinx
67
3xDire Avengers
Exarch with 2 catapults
174
Shining Spears
7spears, Exarch with Star Lance
240
Total:1998
The extra two Venoms are for the foot characters, the bike Autarchs ride around with the spears. The Ynnari warlock chases the Reavers. I’m not sure which Craftworld is optimal for the Eldar detachment.
Are there any glaring holes for an unknown meta?
I think my main thought is 'why is this list Ynnari?' You've got a Supreme Command Detachment and a Battalion, both Ynnari, and yet between them there's only a single unit that actually benefits from being Ynnari. And even then only barely.
Moreover, I think you've got waaaay too many support HQs and not enough units for them to actually support.
If you're set on playing Ynnari, my suggestion would be to drop the Supreme Command Detachment entirely and just make the Eldar Battalion a Ynnari one. 1 Autarch, 1 Ynnari Farseer and The Bloody Awful (aka The Visarch). This will free up ~240pts. If you can find about 10 more points, you'll have enough for 2 Ravagers.
Also, I'd advise dropping *at least* one of the extra Venoms. You absolutely do not need 1 per character.
I'd also suggest splitting the Reavers into 2 units of 6.
Oh, one very minor point - the Hungering Blade seems a bit pointless on an Autarch Skyrunner. The Laser Lance is S6 on the charge, has better AP, does the same damage and gives him an extra shooting attack. All you really lose out on is the Mortal Wounds on 6s to wound.
Thanks Vipoid, some really solid points and exactly the kind of criticism I was hoping for.
The idea behind the list was to run Ynnari Reavers along side Craftworld Spears. That has definitely lead to an over abundance of buff HQ’s.
I can gain that extra 10 points for Ravagers by swapping the archon for a succubus, the archon seems a little redundant when Yvraine has Grace.
Why do you recommend splitting up the Reavers? Between the buff spells and combat drugs I figured I would get more mileage out of a big squad.
GenericWoundwart wrote: Thanks Vipoid, some really solid points and exactly the kind of criticism I was hoping for.
The idea behind the list was to run Ynnari Reavers along side Craftworld Spears. That has definitely lead to an over abundance of buff HQ’s.
I can gain that extra 10 points for Ravagers by swapping the archon for a succubus, the archon seems a little redundant when Yvraine has Grace.
Why do you recommend splitting up the Reavers? Between the buff spells and combat drugs I figured I would get more mileage out of a big squad.
In terms of the Reavers, YMMV but a 12-man squad seems very unwieldy to me. I'd rather at least have the option of being able to send them against different targets (or to capture different objectives). As a minor benefit, doing it this way gives you a second Reaver Champion (meaning an extra attack at no cost).
I get the Combat Drugs aspect. However, in terms of buff spells, Shield of Ynnead affects an area around the caster (so would work fine with 2 squads) and Unbind Souls targets a single enemy (so if you want both squads to gang up on a single target, they can still both get the benefit).
I know I'd split them but but at the end of the day it's up to you.
GenericWoundwart wrote: Thanks Vipoid, some really solid points and exactly the kind of criticism I was hoping for.
The idea behind the list was to run Ynnari Reavers along side Craftworld Spears. That has definitely lead to an over abundance of buff HQ’s.
I can gain that extra 10 points for Ravagers by swapping the archon for a succubus, the archon seems a little redundant when Yvraine has Grace.
Why do you recommend splitting up the Reavers? Between the buff spells and combat drugs I figured I would get more mileage out of a big squad.
In terms of the Reavers, YMMV but a 12-man squad seems very unwieldy to me. I'd rather at least have the option of being able to send them against different targets (or to capture different objectives). As a minor benefit, doing it this way gives you a second Reaver Champion (meaning an extra attack at no cost).
I get the Combat Drugs aspect. However, in terms of buff spells, Shield of Ynnead affects an area around the caster (so would work fine with 2 squads) and Unbind Souls targets a single enemy (so if you want both squads to gang up on a single target, they can still both get the benefit).
I know I'd split them but but at the end of the day it's up to you.
So the only spell I would lose out in really is ancestors grace. If I split down to two squads I can go +1T and blasters in one and +1A with grav talons and agoniser in the other. I can source some points by cutting the Craftworld’s autarch, the surplus venoms and switching the archon to a succubus. Do you think this will still be a case of too many chiefs? Also, is Saim Hann the way to go with the spears?
So the only spell I would lose out in really is ancestors grace. If I split down to two squads I can go +1T and blasters in one and +1A with grav talons and agoniser in the other. I can source some points by cutting the Craftworld’s autarch, the surplus venoms and switching the archon to a succubus. Do you think this will still be a case of too many chiefs? Also, is Saim Hann the way to go with the spears?
To my mind it would still be too many HQs, yes.
I think the issue is that you've got an entire detachment of Eldar HQs (plus an expensive one in the DE Battalion) who are all there just to buff a single DE unit, which isn't exactly good to begin with.
As for the Shining Spears, I'm not experienced enough with the different Craftworlds to offer advice. Instead, I'll maintain that running them as Ynnari would save you a great deal of points in excess HQs.
wannabmoy wrote: I think the base troupe is really the big winner from the Harlequin book as far as Ynnari goes.
Even still, I find giving up all the utility of the base Quin strats and Masque forms hard to do away with.
Units like Skyweavers benefit from the tactical flexibility and being locked into a CC specialist detachment just doesn't seem efficient or likely to win more games.
How so ?
In the beginning i was thinking about troupe without any upgrades who are terrible expensive. Than i realized the only good think is you get reroll to wounds and master do it too and it without the need of psychers or spending CP. You still need the starweavers to get close in most scenarios and you can`t use solitare. After that i realized i`m trying to make something like tactical marine better, the harlequin stratagems look better and masques are not much inferior to ynnari buffs. The only real argument is that you can use the Vissarch reroll, but is he really much better than great harlequin ?
Not losing rising crescendo is obviously pretty big. Don't underestimate the value of always fighting first, especially in your opponent's phase for units as fragile as the troupe. The +1 to hit and re-rolls are also pretty strong. Not saying it's the best option for them, but as far as Harlequin units go, the troupe stands to gain the most IMO.
Reroll wounds strat + they are good at forcing ongoing combats.
The 5++ invo ability gives them a lot better staying power and with the yncarne the fearless buble and the high source of wounds to regenerate him will work well. Plus - Sucubus stand as a really cheap effective HQ option that can exploit the revive character stratagem.
Another big winner is Wraithguard and to some extent wraithlords. Wraithgaurd (wraithcannon and fist) gain huge from +1 attack stratagem and +1 to hit. Being able to fallback and shoot naturally. Plus obviously the ability to get an invun save with their shooting build is a big improvement.
Reroll wounds strat + they are good at forcing ongoing combats.
The 5++ invo ability gives them a lot better staying power and with the yncarne the fearless buble and the high source of wounds to regenerate him will work well. Plus - Sucubus stand as a really cheap effective HQ option that can exploit the revive character stratagem.
I'm still not convinced.
- Reroll wounds stat is nice, but so is gaining +1S, +1A or Advance & Charge on all Wych units (which you have to give up for the Ynnari spell). These can also be used against multiple units and aren't reliant on a psychic test to work.
- I'm assuming that the 5++ is for footslogging Wyches? I mean, it'll help a bit but Wyches already have a 6++ outside of combat and a 4++ in combat, so it's hardly a huge advantage. If anything, it seems like a bigger boon for Kabalite Warriors. Suddenly you've got a pile of 6pt models sporting a 5++/6+++.
- Fearless is useful, but again Cult of the Cursed Blade would give you almost the same benefit without costing you 337pts. What's more, you can't even make use of the Yncarne's second aura as it overlaps with PfP.
- Succubi are certainly cheap but how exactly are they 'effective'? Their offensive ability is absolute garbage (especially when you consider that they're supposed to be dedicated melee HQs), and by taking Ynnari you deny them access to the artefacts that could actually make them passable in melee. Moreover, given that the Archon has a better aura (in addition to being able to take the Ynnari melee-weapon artefact) there's really no reason to use a Ynnari Succubus at all.
Speaking specifically to maximize ynnari in general. I don't think ynnari holds a cake to any of the main codex original top options.
Being able to trap infantry and always first fight in the next round is just as good as fighting twice (actually it's better because it's about to be your turn again) That is the best use I can think of with this bottom tier army trait.
Archons are also pretty good in a ynnari army but they lack the ability to trap units in melle. Their buffs are equal if you just take witches. Also - going from a 6++ to a 5++ is literally a 100% survivability buff. That is a big deal if we are talking about 40-60 wyches on foot.
Xenomancers wrote: Speaking specifically to maximize ynnari in general. I don't think ynnari holds a cake to any of the main codex original top options.
Being able to trap infantry and always first fight in the next round is just as good as fighting twice (actually it's better because it's about to be your turn again) That is the best use I can think of with this bottom tier army trait.
Archons are also pretty good in a ynnari army but they lack the ability to trap units in melle. Their buffs are equal if you just take witches. Also - going from a 6++ to a 5++ is literally a 100% survivability buff. That is a big deal if we are talking about 40-60 wyches on foot.
No it's not.
It increases your odds of saving by 100%, but it only increases actual durability by 20%. 6 wounds go from 5 dead to 4 dead.
Xenomancers wrote: Speaking specifically to maximize ynnari in general. I don't think ynnari holds a cake to any of the main codex original top options.
Being able to trap infantry and always first fight in the next round is just as good as fighting twice (actually it's better because it's about to be your turn again) That is the best use I can think of with this bottom tier army trait.
That's interesting, actually. Yeah, I can see where you're coming from on that one.
Archons are also pretty good in a ynnari army but they lack the ability to trap units in melle.
True but you're already taking Wyches for that. Surely it's more useful to have Archon + Wyches than Succubus + Wyches? The latter just creates redundancies since the Succubus isn't any better at tying up units than regular Wyches, whilst the Archon (especially if given the Hungering Blade) actually compliments for one of their main weaknesses - i.e. actually doing damage. It also means he can get significantly more use out of the always-strikes-first ability than a Succubus would.
Not quite - the Archon buffs their pistols as well. I know it's a minor thing, but it's still noteworthy (especially since they'll be able to fire their pistols in an ongoing melee), and could be very useful if you're giving Blast Pistols to your wych sergeants.
Xenomancers wrote: Also - going from a 6++ to a 5++ is literally a 100% survivability buff. That is a big deal if we are talking about 40-60 wyches on foot.
As JNA said, it doesn't work like that.
Regardless, I'm not denying that it's an upgrade. All I was saying was that I'd prefer to use it with a unit that would get the full benefit (since Wyches already have an invulnerable save, even if it is worse, and actually get a better invulnerable save as soon as they hit melee).
All that said, I'll confess that you've nevertheless sold me on at least trying Ynnari Wyches.
I feel people are really... overstating the value of the 5++. I can see it maybe being useful in certain situations (Wraith units are the obvious ones) but unless you are bubbling your entirely army on that caster you can't just say "5++" as if its... on everything. Big wych units I guess can be conga-lined back, but its still a limitation.
With that said I still think 40 wyches dropped onto your enemy with natural reroll charges is quite cheap and dangerous in CA18 due to all those bodies with Obsec. Unbind soul and/or inevitable fate are good buffs for that turn two WS2+ (assuming something has died). The fact you can mix and match Kabals/Wyches is probably the main "buff" to DE Ynnari - but I'm still not... sold that its a dramatic upgrade.
I think its an interesting intellectual challenge to build an optimised list - but I keep thinking "but I want AoV. And cursed blade is quite useful for regular wyches. And Alaitoc is borderline mandatory on CWE units, or if I'm going all in on wraiths (wraith seer etc) I might as well gamble on Iyanden for the Psytronome."
I continue to think its bordering on criminal that the Avatar of Ynnead is so expensive compared to say the new Slaanesh Daemon Prince who is sub 2/3rds the cost.
Tyel wrote: I feel people are really... overstating the value of the 5++. I can see it maybe being useful in certain situations (Wraith units are the obvious ones) but unless you are bubbling your entirely army on that caster you can't just say "5++" as if its... on everything. Big wych units I guess can be conga-lined back, but its still a limitation.
To me it seems better on ranged units like Kabalite Warriors or maybe Dark Reapers. Units that don't need to split off to engage enemies in melee.
I've got something of an odd question for you guys - which Eldar, Dark Eldar or Harlequin character do you think can make the best use of the Hungering Blade?
Yes I have only 5CP, but i need only 6CP to play. That's why the warlord is the Warlock with "Walker of many paths" to regen 1 CP.
I only use 2CP to reroll wound for 2 Turns
And sometime 2CP -1 to hit or 2CP Charge after advance.
So with 6 CP the army works very well
I have only 7 games with atm but the CP was never a problem. (versus 2x Ork Lootas + Deathguard + Drukhari + Deathwatch + Tyranids + Aeronotica Craftworld). => 6 wins - 1 Loose (versus Ork)
I know its maybe a surprise because everyone like to play with 14+CP but its an 'all-in" army with a very strong mobility to score Maelstrom objectives and to pressure my opponent.
I know TroupMaster give "reroll wounds rolls" but its a 6" aura and the Skyweavers make 22" at first turn...
Maybe its a start to build some Ynnari army...i'm sharing it here with you
Atm, i'm working on this liste. I didnt test it yet but its looking good i guess.
Its the same List but the Shining spears are Craftworld and not Ynnari.
I have a third version of "reroll wounds rolls" with Doom from Craftworld Psychic power (only for Shining spears i know).
So i can save 2CP and dont use the ynnari stratagem to reroll wounds rolls.
The warlod is still a "walker of many paths" to regen minimum 1 CP. I think its enough like the first army list.
I gain some psychic power from Runes of Fate and one psychic power from Runes of battles (Protect/jinx is the best choice i guess but i didnt try it atm).
I dont know if this army list is a better version of the first one but it's promising.
TheFleshIsWeak wrote: I've got something of an odd question for you guys - which Eldar, Dark Eldar or Harlequin character do you think can make the best use of the Hungering Blade?
TheFleshIsWeak wrote: I've got something of an odd question for you guys - which Eldar, Dark Eldar or Harlequin character do you think can make the best use of the Hungering Blade?
TheFleshIsWeak wrote: I've got something of an odd question for you guys - which Eldar, Dark Eldar or Harlequin character do you think can make the best use of the Hungering Blade?
Archon probably, or Troupe Master.
I'd argue Skyrunner Autarch, Troupe Master, Archon uses it best in that order.
Autarch has 1 fewer attack, but crazy movement, hits on 2's rerolling ones, more T and wounds, and is a good candidate for using the strat for reviving. Troupe master gets good movement with in-built advance and charge, and rerolls to wound. Archon has a 2++ and reroll 1's to hit.
You can take some supportive Warlord Trait like CP regen on "backline" Warlord so they will be safe; and then take combat-oriented Warlord Trait with stratagem on a character with relic sword and throw them into combat. That's how I would build around multiple relics and traits anyway.
Shadenuat wrote: You can take some supportive Warlord Trait like CP regen on "backline" Warlord so they will be safe; and then take combat-oriented Warlord Trait with stratagem on a character with relic sword and throw them into combat. That's how I would build around multiple relics and traits anyway.
Ah, I see what you mean.
That said, the Ynnari CP-regeneration trait is interesting in that it seems like it wants to be on a frontline model (or, I suppose, a model with a good gun), given that it lets you reroll a hit or wound roll each turn.
I've got another question - would a Ynnari Shadowseer with Lord of Rebirth and Corag Hai's Locket be any use in melee?
QuenthelBaenre wrote: The Death Jester is good to take "walker of many paths" and regen CP on "backline".
And he can use the re-roll from the warlord trait with his weapon.
Good point. Yeah, a Death Jester would be an excellent candidate for Walker of Many Paths.
On that note, do you happen to know if Death Jesters are worth taking in multiples? (Or at all. )
TheFleshIsWeak wrote: I've got another question - would a Ynnari Shadowseer with Lord of Rebirth and Corag Hai's Locket be any use in melee?
QuenthelBaenre wrote: The Death Jester is good to take "walker of many paths" and regen CP on "backline".
And he can use the re-roll from the warlord trait with his weapon.
Good point. Yeah, a Death Jester would be an excellent candidate for Walker of Many Paths.
On that note, do you happen to know if Death Jesters are worth taking in multiples? (Or at all. )
I can't imagine that they would be in a Ynnari based list. Death Jester's with Curtainfall do some real work but otherwise they're a lot of points for not a lot of dakka in my experience.
I can't imagine that they would be in a Ynnari based list. Death Jester's with Curtainfall do some real work but otherwise they're a lot of points for not a lot of dakka in my experience.
I can't imagine that they would be in a Ynnari based list. Death Jester's with Curtainfall do some real work but otherwise they're a lot of points for not a lot of dakka in my experience.
Fair enough.
What about Ynnari Shadowseers - any good?
For a few more points you can get Yvraine who is superior outright. The problem with going Ynnari with shadowseer is giving up their fantastic powers. Both the revenant and phantasmancy spells have access to targetable MWs. This is actually a pretty nice combo of reliable damage that I have been testing.
The big Ynnariquin HQ winner is the Troupe Master with the Hungering Blade. He becomes and absolute beat stick.
TheFleshIsWeak wrote: I've got another question - would a Ynnari Shadowseer with Lord of Rebirth and Corag Hai's Locket be any use in melee?
QuenthelBaenre wrote: The Death Jester is good to take "walker of many paths" and regen CP on "backline".
And he can use the re-roll from the warlord trait with his weapon.
Good point. Yeah, a Death Jester would be an excellent candidate for Walker of Many Paths.
On that note, do you happen to know if Death Jesters are worth taking in multiples? (Or at all. )
I can't imagine that they would be in a Ynnari based list. Death Jester's with Curtainfall do some real work but otherwise they're a lot of points for not a lot of dakka in my experience.
The idea is to have a Warlord but in backline and not in suicide frontline mode ^^
and who can be this Warlord in backline? imo, the best choice is a Deathjester with "walker of many paths" for the CP regen AND he can use the re-roll to hit or to wound....because you can take a Farseer but he will never use the re-roll.
For a few more points you can get Yvraine who is superior outright.
Yeah but I hate special characters in general and Yvraine especially just rubs me the wrong way.
wannabmoy wrote: The problem with going Ynnari with shadowseer is giving up their fantastic powers. Both the revenant and phantasmancy spells have access to targetable MWs. This is actually a pretty nice combo of reliable damage that I have been testing.
Fair enough. Unfortunately, it's Ynnari or nothing for the Shadowseer . . . so I guess nothing.
wannabmoy wrote: The big Ynnariquin HQ winner is the Troupe Master with the Hungering Blade. He becomes and absolute beat stick.
wannabmoy wrote: The big Ynnariquin HQ winner is the Troupe Master with the Hungering Blade. He becomes and absolute beat stick.
Alright, maybe I'll use him instead.
You can run him with walker and he can make use of the re-roll to hit or another strong candidate for him is for the extra attack and strength with Warden of Souls. Strength 7 with 6 attacks (MWs on 6s) can make him an absolute terror. Especially with his ability to ignore screens, you can get tricksy with him.
wannabmoy wrote: You can run him with walker and he can make use of the re-roll to hit or another strong candidate for him is for the extra attack and strength with Warden of Souls. Strength 7 with 6 attacks (MWs on 6s) can make him an absolute terror. Especially with his ability to ignore screens, you can get tricksy with him.
The few Ynnari games i have played, the HBTM is pretty good, use him like a mini melee assassin, put pressure on characters, take objectives, etc.. he works out really well, mine didnt die till turn 4+ i always got 2-3 combats in with in.
Yes I have only 5CP, but i need only 6CP to play. That's why the warlord is the Warlock with "Walker of many paths" to regen 1 CP.
I only use 2CP to reroll wound for 2 Turns
And sometime 2CP -1 to hit or 2CP Charge after advance.
So with 6 CP the army works very well
I have only 7 games with atm but the CP was never a problem. (versus 2x Ork Lootas + Deathguard + Drukhari + Deathwatch + Tyranids + Aeronotica Craftworld). => 6 wins - 1 Loose (versus Ork)
I know its maybe a surprise because everyone like to play with 14+CP but its an 'all-in" army with a very strong mobility to score Maelstrom objectives and to pressure my opponent.
I know TroupMaster give "reroll wounds rolls" but its a 6" aura and the Skyweavers make 22" at first turn...
Maybe its a start to build some Ynnari army...i'm sharing it here with you
Atm, i'm working on this liste. I didnt test it yet but its looking good i guess.
Its the same List but the Shining spears are Craftworld and not Ynnari.
I have a third version of "reroll wounds rolls" with Doom from Craftworld Psychic power (only for Shining spears i know).
So i can save 2CP and dont use the ynnari stratagem to reroll wounds rolls.
The warlod is still a "walker of many paths" to regen minimum 1 CP. I think its enough like the first army list.
I gain some psychic power from Runes of Fate and one psychic power from Runes of battles (Protect/jinx is the best choice i guess but i didnt try it atm).
I dont know if this army list is a better version of the first one but it's promising.
Quenthel
Damn you really took it to the edge, i created couple of list with 2 SS units one ynnari and CWE, with windriders and de bikes for support.
Amishprn86 wrote: The few Ynnari games i have played, the HBTM is pretty good, use him like a mini melee assassin, put pressure on characters, take objectives, etc.. he works out really well, mine didnt die till turn 4+ i always got 2-3 combats in with in.
@ TheFleshIsWeak most melee specialists die when you think of them as a cannon and just point and launch them at your opponent. It's too broad a statement to say he will die right after as it all depends on play style.
@ Amishprn86 I've found him to be incredibly fun when I think of him as a Solitaire type of model. Good at assassinating characters, can bring down light armor, clear objectives, and is a great counter punch unit to boot. I just haven't found the right mix for Ynnari yet that is better than it's Craftworld, Drukhari, Harlequins counterpart.
Amishprn86 wrote: The few Ynnari games i have played, the HBTM is pretty good, use him like a mini melee assassin, put pressure on characters, take objectives, etc.. he works out really well, mine didnt die till turn 4+ i always got 2-3 combats in with in.
@ TheFleshIsWeak most melee specialists die when you think of them as a cannon and just point and launch them at your opponent. It's too broad a statement to say he will die right after as it all depends on play style.
@ Amishprn86 I've found him to be incredibly fun when I think of him as a Solitaire type of model. Good at assassinating characters, can bring down light armor, clear objectives, and is a great counter punch unit to boot. I just haven't found the right mix for Ynnari yet that is better than it's Craftworld, Drukhari, Harlequins counterpart.
Dont try all 3, i tried it for the strat, its a waste of points in HQ slots, b.c you'll need 2 battalions no matter what, even going cheap with the DE, just the 3 Ynnari characters alone are 600pts (well 589) then taking 2 more HQs at minimum, (I did TM and Autarch on Bike, so it was about 800pts of HQ's
For me, Bikes are the winnings in Ynnari and Wraithseers, I want to try 2 Bats, 1 DE, 1 CWE with a Wraithseer and SHining spears/Reavers
My DE list is basically
Visarch
Archon
Wych x5 net
Wych x5 net
Wyches x20
Reavers x12 x4 grav
CWE something like
Wraithseer (IDK the load out yet, still finding what i like)
Yvarine
Another psyker HQ Guardians x20 x2 plats
Rangers (I dont have storm guardians)
Rangers
Shining Spears
Finally the last 300pts are for Aux Skyweavers, b.c i need the HWC's and i need them not to be Ynnari.
Yes I have only 5CP, but i need only 6CP to play. That's why the warlord is the Warlock with "Walker of many paths" to regen 1 CP.
I only use 2CP to reroll wound for 2 Turns
And sometime 2CP -1 to hit or 2CP Charge after advance.
So with 6 CP the army works very well
I have only 7 games with atm but the CP was never a problem. (versus 2x Ork Lootas + Deathguard + Drukhari + Deathwatch + Tyranids + Aeronotica Craftworld). => 6 wins - 1 Loose (versus Ork)
I know its maybe a surprise because everyone like to play with 14+CP but its an 'all-in" army with a very strong mobility to score Maelstrom objectives and to pressure my opponent.
I know TroupMaster give "reroll wounds rolls" but its a 6" aura and the Skyweavers make 22" at first turn...
Maybe its a start to build some Ynnari army...i'm sharing it here with you
Atm, i'm working on this liste. I didnt test it yet but its looking good i guess.
Its the same List but the Shining spears are Craftworld and not Ynnari.
I have a third version of "reroll wounds rolls" with Doom from Craftworld Psychic power (only for Shining spears i know).
So i can save 2CP and dont use the ynnari stratagem to reroll wounds rolls.
The warlod is still a "walker of many paths" to regen minimum 1 CP. I think its enough like the first army list.
I gain some psychic power from Runes of Fate and one psychic power from Runes of battles (Protect/jinx is the best choice i guess but i didnt try it atm).
I dont know if this army list is a better version of the first one but it's promising.
Quenthel
Damn you really took it to the edge, i created couple of list with 2 SS units one ynnari and CWE, with windriders and de bikes for support.
THe Haywirecannon are very very strong.
The spiritseer wasnt mandatory in my games.
Better to oneshot at the shoot phase some vehicle.
My only problem with this list is, how do you deal with 120 plaguebearers, cultists or Orks? And how do you deal with a couple of Riptides, Broadsides and 30 drones?
This list is so focused on being within 12” range and/or combat, that, if it doesn’t alpha strike extremely hard it’s going to suffer to the beta strike or lose to table control. If you can’t keep ahead of the curve each turn then you’re likely to suffer more.
That said, maybe this list can work extremely well on the competitive scene.
THe Haywirecannon are very very strong. The spiritseer wasnt mandatory in my games. Better to oneshot at the shoot phase some vehicle.
My only problem with this list is, how do you deal with 120 plaguebearers, cultists or Orks? And how do you deal with a couple of Riptides, Broadsides and 30 drones?
This list is so focused on being within 12” range and/or combat, that, if it doesn’t alpha strike extremely hard it’s going to suffer to the beta strike or lose to table control. If you can’t keep ahead of the curve each turn then you’re likely to suffer more.
That said, maybe this list can work extremely well on the competitive scene.
i didnt fight against 120 cultists. but versus 120 Plaguebearers or Ork yes! and it did well. 96 shoots of Twin shuriken catapults 24 shoots of Star/Laser Lances 42 shoots of Haywirecannons 18 shoots of shuriken canons
and all of this before the fight phase where the army is better.
And versus a T'au army, the skyweavers is a realy pain ! -1 to hit on datasheets and the stratagem ? then 4++ invulnerable and 3 Wounds ? And the Tau have only one Shoot phase versus this army. I tested it versus Triple Riptide T'au army (not Broadsides)...and i didnt have difficulties...so versus broadsides withtout invulnerable save ? i guess it should be easier. The Tau cant focus on tactical objectives (maelstrom cards) and must try to kill my units...and it is very very hard for him.
At the end i have too much Victory points with the maelstrom cards, because the T'au player cant move outside of his deployment zone.
This list is so focused on being within 12” range and/or combat, that, if it doesn’t alpha strike extremely hard it’s going to suffer to the beta strike or lose to table control. If you can’t keep ahead of the curve each turn then you’re likely to suffer more.
Yes, it is an "all-in" army but with an extremly good resistance. Try to make some statistic versus 6 Skyweavers with some Ranged Weapons...you will see.
Only Dark Reapers / ShockCanon Ork at long range can kill some Bikes without sacrifice too much resources
Maybe i need to inform you in wich type of tournament this army is played. We play in "ETC" format => scenario : Maelstrom + Eternal of war at the same time. => no restrictions on the army list except those of GW => the ground floor of the ruins and buildings block the LOS
Maybe thousands sons with a lot of Mortal wounds + tzangorh can be a problem. Triple Hemlock + Dark Reapers too. It's not a 100% Win rate army ^^
THe Haywirecannon are very very strong.
The spiritseer wasnt mandatory in my games.
Better to oneshot at the shoot phase some vehicle.
My only problem with this list is, how do you deal with 120 plaguebearers, cultists or Orks? And how do you deal with a couple of Riptides, Broadsides and 30 drones?
This list is so focused on being within 12” range and/or combat, that, if it doesn’t alpha strike extremely hard it’s going to suffer to the beta strike or lose to table control. If you can’t keep ahead of the curve each turn then you’re likely to suffer more.
That said, maybe this list can work extremely well on the competitive scene.
i didnt fight against 120 cultists.
but versus 120 Plaguebearers or Ork yes! and it did well.
96 shoots of Twin shuriken catapults
24 shoots of Star/Laser Lances
42 shoots of Haywirecannons
18 shoots of shuriken canons
and all of this before the fight phase where the army is better.
And versus a T'au army, the skyweavers is a realy pain ! -1 to hit on datasheets and the stratagem ? then 4++ invulnerable and 3 Wounds ?
And the Tau have only one Shoot phase versus this army.
I tested it versus Triple Riptide T'au army (not Broadsides)...and i didnt have difficulties...so versus broadsides withtout invulnerable save ? i guess it should be easier.
The Tau cant focus on tactical objectives (maelstrom cards) and must try to kill my units...and it is very very hard for him.
At the end i have too much Victory points with the maelstrom cards, because the T'au player cant move outside of his deployment zone.
This list is so focused on being within 12” range and/or combat, that, if it doesn’t alpha strike extremely hard it’s going to suffer to the beta strike or lose to table control. If you can’t keep ahead of the curve each turn then you’re likely to suffer more.
Yes, it is an "all-in" army but with an extremly good resistance.
Try to make some statistic versus 6 Skyweavers with some Ranged Weapons...you will see.
Only Dark Reapers / ShockCanon Ork at long range can kill some Bikes without sacrifice too much resources
Maybe i need to inform you in wich type of tournament this army is played.
We play in "ETC" format
=> scenario : Maelstrom + Eternal of war at the same time.
=> no restrictions on the army list except those of GW => the ground floor of the ruins and buildings block the LOS
Maybe thousands sons with a lot of Mortal wounds + tzangorh can be a problem.
Triple Hemlock + Dark Reapers too.
It's not a 100% Win rate army ^^
Really nasty list to fight in ETC, really list even the most defensive army will not be happy to play.
I agree that it can work well in ETC – especially as you have the mobility to jump around for maelstrom points. However, I thought ETC generally uses the latest GW missions? In this case the CA19 missions? If so, i feel like you’re giving up practically all hope of winning the Eternal War part of each game, as you have no troops and only 2 Characters. You also have to have a reasonable amount of luck with your maelstrom draw. I need to try something like this myself, as right now I’m just approaching it from a theoretical pov.
My issue is that, even with all those shots vs Plaguebearers, you’re only killing on average, 23-30 in the shooting phase – and that is with doom affecting the Spears. 23 being if you’re targeting the -2 to hit unit, 30 (well 30 from 1 unit and then 3.5 from a 2nd unit if you have the ability to split fire) if you’re targeting the -1 to hit units. Also, to get into range to do all of the shots turn 1 on a standard table with 24” range you’re going to have to advance the Shining Spears, which means no charging from them (unless you’re Saim-Hann and use the strat on 1 unit), whilst they are then within easy counter charge range in your opponents turn. Sure, they aren’t going to kill you very quickly in combat, but, that is what the Daemon Princes, Psykers and Thousand Sons are there for in most lists, with occasional bloodletter bombs. This essentially means you’re spending all 2000 points of your list killing 1, 210-point, unit.
For example, you might kill 1 screening unit of Plaguebearers, but, the deepstriking unit of Tzaangors buffed with Prescience and VotLW retaliate by killing 1 of your units of Skyweavers or half a unit and both Characters.
Vs Orks, I can see it absolutely destroying their units of boyz with the amount of shots you have. Thinking about it, I’m not sure how they would be able to win this matchup.
Vs Abaddon and Cultist spam, I guess it depends on the rest of the army. If you go first you can pretty much clear 90 cultists. How many bikes you have remaining after Abaddon and a Prince or 2 fights back though, is questionable. I’d probably still have it down in your favour though.
Vs T’au, I’m a little surprised at the result vs 3 Riptides if I’m honest. If you get first turn and doom off, you’re likely going to kill a Riptide if you can get the Spears within 6”s of them. If you can’t get within 6”, you’re not likely to kill a Riptide, especially one protected by drones and potentially an Ethereal. You’re also not likely going to be able to get a charge off vs a Riptide, unless they haven’t been screened correctly. Even if your Skyweavers get into combat with 1 Riptide, 1 unit of 6 is only going to be dealing ~5 wounds IF there are no drones alive. Considering that if all 3 survive and they have the markerlight support and velocity trackers, the returning fire can kill 7-8 Skyweavers, or ~15 Shining Spears. This number is even higher if they’ve baited out your LFR strat and used things like the T’au strat for +1 to wound or the re-roll wounds for 1 suit unit strat etc. You then also have to consider that there is likely a unit of 3 Broadsides of several hammerheads etc sat off to the side ready to hammer out some shots as well. I just personally think that you might struggle vs a well-played, well built, T’au army.
I must admit, that the more I think about the list, the more I like it, but, I do feel that you’d need a fair amount of luck and a LOT of practice to be able to go up against some of the stronger top table lists currently out there.
Kdash wrote: I agree that it can work well in ETC – especially as you have the mobility to jump around for maelstrom points. However, I thought ETC generally uses the latest GW missions? In this case the CA19 missions? If so, i feel like you’re giving up practically all hope of winning the Eternal War part of each game, as you have no troops and only 2 Characters. You also have to have a reasonable amount of luck with your maelstrom draw. I need to try something like this myself, as right now I’m just approaching it from a theoretical pov.
My issue is that, even with all those shots vs Plaguebearers, you’re only killing on average, 23-30 in the shooting phase – and that is with doom affecting the Spears. 23 being if you’re targeting the -2 to hit unit, 30 (well 30 from 1 unit and then 3.5 from a 2nd unit if you have the ability to split fire) if you’re targeting the -1 to hit units. Also, to get into range to do all of the shots turn 1 on a standard table with 24” range you’re going to have to advance the Shining Spears, which means no charging from them (unless you’re Saim-Hann and use the strat on 1 unit), whilst they are then within easy counter charge range in your opponents turn. Sure, they aren’t going to kill you very quickly in combat, but, that is what the Daemon Princes, Psykers and Thousand Sons are there for in most lists, with occasional bloodletter bombs. This essentially means you’re spending all 2000 points of your list killing 1, 210-point, unit.
For example, you might kill 1 screening unit of Plaguebearers, but, the deepstriking unit of Tzaangors buffed with Prescience and VotLW retaliate by killing 1 of your units of Skyweavers or half a unit and both Characters.
Vs Orks, I can see it absolutely destroying their units of boyz with the amount of shots you have. Thinking about it, I’m not sure how they would be able to win this matchup.
Vs Abaddon and Cultist spam, I guess it depends on the rest of the army. If you go first you can pretty much clear 90 cultists. How many bikes you have remaining after Abaddon and a Prince or 2 fights back though, is questionable. I’d probably still have it down in your favour though.
Vs T’au, I’m a little surprised at the result vs 3 Riptides if I’m honest. If you get first turn and doom off, you’re likely going to kill a Riptide if you can get the Spears within 6”s of them. If you can’t get within 6”, you’re not likely to kill a Riptide, especially one protected by drones and potentially an Ethereal. You’re also not likely going to be able to get a charge off vs a Riptide, unless they haven’t been screened correctly. Even if your Skyweavers get into combat with 1 Riptide, 1 unit of 6 is only going to be dealing ~5 wounds IF there are no drones alive. Considering that if all 3 survive and they have the markerlight support and velocity trackers, the returning fire can kill 7-8 Skyweavers, or ~15 Shining Spears. This number is even higher if they’ve baited out your LFR strat and used things like the T’au strat for +1 to wound or the re-roll wounds for 1 suit unit strat etc. You then also have to consider that there is likely a unit of 3 Broadsides of several hammerheads etc sat off to the side ready to hammer out some shots as well. I just personally think that you might struggle vs a well-played, well built, T’au army.
I must admit, that the more I think about the list, the more I like it, but, I do feel that you’d need a fair amount of luck and a LOT of practice to be able to go up against some of the stronger top table lists currently out there.
As far as i know ETC uses their own custom made missions. They use cards and you score extra points for holding objectives at the end of the game, you also get points for the difference between the killing units.
ETC also have pregame where you have chance to elude list that counter you hard, so having such little cheese list could prove to be big advantage vs most match ups.
Kdash wrote: I thought ETC generally uses the latest GW missions? In this case the CA19 missions?
we need to wait until Novembre 2019 to get the CA2019.
The ETC use a combination of some Eternal War and some Maelstrom from CA2017 - 2018 and rules book.
For this year the scenarios are this:
Mission 1: Frontline Warfare + Contact Lost
Mission 2: Scorched Earth + Tactical Escalation
Mission 3: ETC Secure and Control + ETC Cut off the Head + Decapitation Strike
Mission 4: ETC The Four Pillars + Disruptive Signals
Mission 5: ETC Beachhead + Visions of Victory
Mission 6: ETC Vital Intelligence + ETC Tactical Cascade
"ETC" mean some minors changes.
80% of VP come from maelstrom.
Eternal dont give a lot of VP in general (1-2/turn max)
but for now i dont play in ETC condition, only with their game mode.
I play only in 1v1 blind pairing
Kdash wrote: I must admit, that the more I think about the list, the more I like it, but, I do feel that you’d need a fair amount of luck and a LOT of practice to be able to go up against some of the stronger top table lists currently out there.
The same.
The first time I wrote this list (not really the same thing, minor changes appeared), it was a bit of a test just after the release of Ynnari White Dwarf Index.
But after intense reflections and tests, everything is fine.
I call it an "all-in" army, but do not play like that at 100% ... you have to play a little slowly (not all armies are big D*** gunline ^^). target the right units to destroy, think of "soulburst" and "counteroffensive stratagem".
I already played 3 Shining Spears in Ynnari and I practiced "playing Eldar bikers melee".
Automatically Appended Next Post: So
i shared some idea for Ynnari...
Let's go friends!! i need more inspiration ! share with us!
1 Ynnari SS and 1 CWESS, 3 units skyweavers.
It does not have as much damage like your list, but spiritseer gives extra mobility and you can advance and charge the two units of the SS.
Vypers are just extra units for object holding.
Again 2 units of SS, 2 units of scatterbikes and 2 prism for range damage. Autarch skyrunner mostly to ignore overwatch.
Sadly i think banshee mask is not allowed in ETC.
Marin wrote: 1 Ynnari SS and 1 CWESS, 3 units skyweavers.
It does not have as much damage like your list, but spiritseer gives extra mobility and you can advance and charge the two units of the SS.
Vypers are just extra units for object holding.
Again 2 units of SS, 2 units of scatterbikes and 2 prism for range damage. Autarch skyrunner mostly to ignore overwatch.
Sadly i think banshee mask is not allowed in ETC.
I like the spirit.
It is not mandatory in a full biker list but still very good.
Sad i have to leave it to get some Haywire Cannons.
The idea to have Ynnari-SS and CWE-SS is interesting. i keep it in my mind...but it needs more CP i guess, so you should try to get more CP in your army i guess (if you want to use the two stratagem to charge after advance).
Your second list is funy.
I want to play the Yncarn, but it looks too expensive for me...imo.
And the only way to play the Yncarn isnt working any more => since the last FAQ you cant move after get "set up" on battlefield with abilities like "Da'jump, gate of infinity...." unless it is a Charge move, consolidate, pil in.
So you cant make a "heroic intervention" after geting set up....
Marin wrote: 1 Ynnari SS and 1 CWESS, 3 units skyweavers.
It does not have as much damage like your list, but spiritseer gives extra mobility and you can advance and charge the two units of the SS.
Vypers are just extra units for object holding.
Again 2 units of SS, 2 units of scatterbikes and 2 prism for range damage. Autarch skyrunner mostly to ignore overwatch.
Sadly i think banshee mask is not allowed in ETC.
I like the spirit.
It is not mandatory in a full biker list but still very good.
Sad i have to leave it to get some Haywire Cannons.
The idea to have Ynnari-SS and CWE-SS is interesting. i keep it in my mind...but it needs more CP i guess, so you should try to get more CP in your army i guess (if you want to use the two stratagem to charge after advance).
Your second list is funy.
I want to play the Yncarn, but it looks too expensive for me...imo.
And the only way to play the Yncarn isnt working any more => since the last FAQ you cant move after get "set up" on battlefield with abilities like "Da'jump, gate of infinity...." unless it is a Charge move, consolidate, pil in.
So you cant make a "heroic intervention" after geting set up....
Can you really not heroic intervene anymore after redeploying? I must have misesd this one ...
If you really cannot heroicly intervene after teleporting then im glad i just put 90CAD down the drain by buying the triumvirate instead of just getting yvraine second hand
VladimirHerzog wrote: If you really cannot heroicly intervene after teleporting then im glad i just put 90CAD down the drain by buying the triumvirate instead of just getting yvraine second hand
If it makes you feel any better, I'll be using the Yncarne anyway, refluffed as a demon.
VladimirHerzog wrote: If you really cannot heroicly intervene after teleporting then im glad i just put 90CAD down the drain by buying the triumvirate instead of just getting yvraine second hand
If it makes you feel any better, I'll be using the Yncarne anyway, refluffed as a demon.
At least the model is fun to paint. i'll probably still use it but i feel like thats a pretty big nerf. I'll have to adapt , thats all.
VladimirHerzog wrote: If you really cannot heroicly intervene after teleporting then im glad i just put 90CAD down the drain by buying the triumvirate instead of just getting yvraine second hand
I`m not sorry that i did, the models are really cool and Yncarne is not as bad. The Yncarne really counter a lot of staff and is one of the few aeldar models that can solo daemon prince.
I really wish the points were lower through, the full ynnari army is really impossible with the 3 HQ so expensive.
Just wanted to let you guys know I've taken Ynarri reavers as a key component of an Aeldari list to 2 tournaments now (one 20 man, one 80 man). I won both and the reavers were key players, every game they did 4 things:
1) Secured at least 2 VP 2) Made their points back
3) Neutered key event shooting (eg 3 Plague burst Crawlers)
4) Died by turn 3
4 is key as its why the +1 to hit from SfD is so important over getting it from PfP.
Drager wrote: Just wanted to let you guys know I've taken Ynarri reavers as a key component of an Aeldari list to 2 tournaments now (one 20 man, one 80 man). I won both and the reavers were key players, every game they did 4 things:
1) Secured at least 2 VP 2) Made their points back
3) Neutered key event shooting (eg 3 Plague burst Crawlers)
4) Died by turn 3
4 is key as its why the +1 to hit from SfD is so important over getting it from PfP.
Could you post your full list(s)? I'm curious to see how you took them (numbers, weapons etc.) and what you took with them.
Drager wrote: Just wanted to let you guys know I've taken Ynarri reavers as a key component of an Aeldari list to 2 tournaments now (one 20 man, one 80 man). I won both and the reavers were key players, every game they did 4 things:
1) Secured at least 2 VP 2) Made their points back
3) Neutered key event shooting (eg 3 Plague burst Crawlers)
4) Died by turn 3
4 is key as its why the +1 to hit from SfD is so important over getting it from PfP.
Yep, i;ve been saying Bikes are amazing in Ynnari and all my list has 9-12 Reavers so far. Tho no comp games yet, but they are very good in Ynnari. There are for sure better things than Reavers, but now they are at least playable.
Drager wrote: Just wanted to let you guys know I've taken Ynarri reavers as a key component of an Aeldari list to 2 tournaments now (one 20 man, one 80 man). I won both and the reavers were key players, every game they did 4 things:
1) Secured at least 2 VP 2) Made their points back
3) Neutered key event shooting (eg 3 Plague burst Crawlers)
4) Died by turn 3
4 is key as its why the +1 to hit from SfD is so important over getting it from PfP.
Could you post your full list(s)? I'm curious to see how you took them (numbers, weapons etc.) and what you took with them.
Reaver loadout was simple. 12 Reavers, 4 Grav Talons and that's it. There wasn't much more Ynarri in there though, just 3 Kabalite squads, a Succubus and Yvraine. The rest of the list was flayed Skull venoms and CWE bikes. I'm planning to take a similar list to LGT and I might do a full report on games and list then.
Has anyone considered the Tantalus in Ynarri? It's a vehicle that likes to assault occasionally and could use the WS boost from SfD (could also use the useless strat!) and is a nice delivery vehicle for Wyches. I'm thinking somehting like a Tantalus with 3 min units of wyches and a Hungering Blade archon inside, a big pack of Reavers, Vampire Atuarch and then... some CWE or Covens to back it up in detachment 3.
Drager wrote: Has anyone considered the Tantalus in Ynarri? It's a vehicle that likes to assault occasionally and could use the WS boost from SfD (could also use the useless strat!) and is a nice delivery vehicle for Wyches. I'm thinking somehting like a Tantalus with 3 min units of wyches and a Hungering Blade archon inside, a big pack of Reavers, Vampire Atuarch and then... some CWE or Covens to back it up in detachment 3.
The problem with it its that its a 400pts target that will get focused down pretty quickly. The strength of Drukhari is that when your opponent has to pick which threat he needs to deal to, there isnt one thats above the rest. The tantalus will get focused down, especially if it has anything embarked in it. Its good for fun games but dont expect it to be competitive
Drager wrote: Has anyone considered the Tantalus in Ynarri? It's a vehicle that likes to assault occasionally and could use the WS boost from SfD (could also use the useless strat!) and is a nice delivery vehicle for Wyches. I'm thinking somehting like a Tantalus with 3 min units of wyches and a Hungering Blade archon inside, a big pack of Reavers, Vampire Atuarch and then... some CWE or Covens to back it up in detachment 3.
The problem with it its that its a 400pts target that will get focused down pretty quickly. The strength of Drukhari is that when your opponent has to pick which threat he needs to deal to, there isnt one thats above the rest. The tantalus will get focused down, especially if it has anything embarked in it. Its good for fun games but dont expect it to be competitive
I was thinking of adding it to a list that already has 2 large threats that need focussing down, but your point is certainly valid!
Has anyone found any viable semi-competitive builds with Ynnari at the moment?
I've been toying around with a few ideas with the Yncarne and some serpent spam and an autarch skyrunner with the HB. This is then supported by a harlequin detachment with 12 skyrunners.
The other thought I had was trying to build a MW spam list wave serpents, talos bubble and various aeldari psykers that can throw out targetable and regular smites.
Just checking in to see if anyone's had any success recently.
I actually gave up on Ynnari bc they are not fun, the stratagems are bad or redundant for many units, the strike first isnt something that matters unless you are planing on staying in combat (which doesnt happen often enough) and the points for the characters are still outrageous.
But the worst part is, after all my test games with them (not working on list, but getting to know the best units for rules and best way to play it effectively) most units that WOULD be good for Ynnari work better as NON Ynnari.
I feel it really only helps a handful of units and makes many other units worst.
But a few things i do like, the WL traits and relics are not that bad, some are really cool and good, and my DE Wych/Kabal plays nice together finally.
I still am leaning on that a couple Wraithseer's are good for it and melee bikes.
Amishprn86 wrote: I actually gave up on Ynnari bc they are not fun, the stratagems are bad or redundant for many units, the strike first isnt something that matters unless you are planing on staying in combat (which doesnt happen often enough) and the points for the characters are still outrageous.
But the worst part is, after all my test games with them (not working on list, but getting to know the best units for rules and best way to play it effectively) most units that WOULD be good for Ynnari work better as NON Ynnari.
I feel it really only helps a handful of units and makes many other units worst.
But a few things i do like, the WL traits and relics are not that bad, some are really cool and good, and my DE Wych/Kabal plays nice together finally.
I still am leaning on that a couple Wraithseer's are good for it and melee bikes.
I've also tried a couple of different variants thus far and still haven't found anything remotely competitive. However, I do enjoy playing a little bit of hero-hammer in a Ynnari craftworlds list with the Yncarne/autarch w/ HB, wave serpent spam with a harlequins vanguard with 2 DJs and a solitaire and 12 skyweaver jetbikes.
The WSs create a durable screen to protect the Yncarne, autarch, and solitaire while also trying to clear most chaff. And the jetbikes do what they do best.
This is about the most competitive thing I've been able to tinker around with thus far.
I also agree that 2 wraithseers with the relic and WL trait might have some legs but unfortunately, I do not currently own one of those models.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here's a themed Ynnari / Wraithlist I've been drawing up. Feel like this could be kind of fun to play although not very competitive.
I'm mostly jsut taking a single Ynnari detachment.
HQ Yvraine
Archon, Blaster, Hungering Blade, Walker of Many Paths
Troops
3x 5 Kabalite Warriors
Fast Attack
12 Reavers, 4 Grav Talons
It adds a lot to a competitive build of other CWE/DE/Harlies and can fit in to a good number of lists. The Reavers are great in Ynnari and the ASF thing is brilliant in the opposing players charge phase. Either they have to attack the Reavers first, letting me interrupt with something else for 2 CP or the reavers get a free interrupt after their first unit fights.
TheFleshIsWeak wrote: I have to say, the fact that SMs are getting a second codex makes Ynnari's fate even more depressing.
Watching how GW develop armies lately there is a huge chance of nothing new until they revamp(kill/bring ynnari as the Craftworld eldar faction like Primarisfor marines) worth to notice they bothered to bring new Crimson fist and Blood ravens rules just 4 months before a new codex in WD so we can't be fully sure right now.
It was fun. The games were quick and most people didn't know what to do against it. Like I said, I'm doubtful it would dominate in a really competitive meta, but it did well that one day lol.
If not, I guess the Eldar faction that's supposed to have the most psychic ties is getting nothing from Psychic Awakening.
They removed the picture since many factions were missing and they said that all of them would get new rules.
Also, either the 3rd or the 5th icons in the first row could be craftworlds/ynnari
They removed the picture since many factions were missing and they said that all of them would get new rules.
Yeah, then they put the picture back with Space Wolves and Admech logos added. Still no Ynnari one.
Which is fine because:
A) if CWE, DE & Harlequins are getting new rules, Ynnari are by default, so GW isn't lying when they say ALL FACTIONS and
B) Ynnari should never have been a faction in the first place. Just an alliance of factions lead by specific Characters
Galef wrote: Which is fine because:
A) if CWE, DE & Harlequins are getting new rules, Ynnari are by default, so GW isn't lying when they say ALL FACTIONS
-
Er, no, that's not how it works at all.
Ynnari don't get access to DE/Eldar/Harlequin:
- Warlord traits
- Stratagems
- Artefacts
- Special characters
- Mandrakes
- Coven units
So if the rules are for any of those (with the first 3 being the most likely), then Ynnari won't have gained any new rules at all. So GW will have lied.
The new rules for Ynnari it's a double edge, if the Psychic Awakening new rules are relics/stratagems and psy powers then truly Ynnari won't get gak from it.
But if the new rules means some new units, upgraded datasheet for old ones and new built in abilities then Ynnari may get a minor boost.
P.S: i don't mind Ynnari current state as it allows me to field a Craftworld with Ynnari wraith force and i'm greatly enjoying the new rules despite not being a meta competitive force right now.
Elfric wrote: It all sounds so, evil and malicious, "GW lied". Honestly it's probably an honest oversight if somehow Ynarri don't get any rules updates
I apologise if stating facts sounds malicious.
Lord Perversor wrote: The new rules for Ynnari it's a double edge, if the Psychic Awakening new rules are relics/stratagems and psy powers then truly Ynnari won't get gak from it.
But if the new rules means some new units, upgraded datasheet for old ones and new built in abilities then Ynnari may get a minor boost.
It's possible, though honestly I'd happily settle for GW simply removing the lead weight from round Ynnari's neck.
P.S: i don't mind Ynnari current state as it allows me to field a Craftworld with Ynnari wraith force and i'm greatly enjoying the new rules despite not being a meta competitive force right now.
I'd be more than happy with the current Ynnari rules if it wasn't for the special character requirement (though I'll admit a Warptime-type power would have been nice).
Ynnari Reborn Asuryani Supreme Command
-Yncarne
-Wraithseer w/ Lost Shroud and wraithcannon
-Wraithseer w/ Lord of Rebirth and wraithcannon
-Wraithknight w/ Suncannon & Scattershield, 2x scatter lasers
Surprisingly, the Wraithknight did a ton of work in each of my games. The Wraithseers tanked a ton of damage and combined with the autarch's rerolls did considerable work. The autarch might have been my MVP though. Was great at getting CP back all game, and was the perfect utility unit. Able to plink off wounds with the launcher, eat overwatch, and clear some objectives or assasinate a few characters with the HB
Will definitely play this list again but may try to substitute wyches in lieu of the storm guardians to try and take advantage of the United in Death strat.
Ynnari Reborn Asuryani Supreme Command
-Yncarne
-Wraithseer w/ Lost Shroud and wraithcannon
-Wraithseer w/ Lord of Rebirth and wraithcannon
-Wraithknight w/ Suncannon & Scattershield, 2x scatter lasers
Surprisingly, the Wraithknight did a ton of work in each of my games. The Wraithseers tanked a ton of damage and combined with the autarch's rerolls did considerable work. The autarch might have been my MVP though. Was great at getting CP back all game, and was the perfect utility unit. Able to plink off wounds with the launcher, eat overwatch, and clear some objectives or assasinate a few characters with the HB
Will definitely play this list again but may try to substitute wyches in lieu of the storm guardians to try and take advantage of the United in Death strat.
This is great. It's similar to the list I posted above. Glad you had some success. That Ynnari Supreme command is so fun to play. I ran sword and board, but might try suncannon next time.
Ynnari Reborn Asuryani Supreme Command
-Yncarne
-Wraithseer w/ Lost Shroud and wraithcannon
-Wraithseer w/ Lord of Rebirth and wraithcannon
-Wraithknight w/ Suncannon & Scattershield, 2x scatter lasers
Surprisingly, the Wraithknight did a ton of work in each of my games. The Wraithseers tanked a ton of damage and combined with the autarch's rerolls did considerable work. The autarch might have been my MVP though. Was great at getting CP back all game, and was the perfect utility unit. Able to plink off wounds with the launcher, eat overwatch, and clear some objectives or assasinate a few characters with the HB
Will definitely play this list again but may try to substitute wyches in lieu of the storm guardians to try and take advantage of the United in Death strat.
This is great. It's similar to the list I posted above. Glad you had some success. That Ynnari Supreme command is so fun to play. I ran sword and board, but might try suncannon next time.
Was a lot of fun to play and thank you for the inspiration. Really straightforward. Basically the point of the list was to make sure I got a single kill each turn to activate Soulburst actions. That wraithknight has a lot of ways to do a ton of work if it's left to survive, ancestor's grace, unbind souls, extra attacks, etc. He one shot a double gat cannon despoiler in melee with stomps, that was pretty sweet, Can't speak enough about the Autarch though. That dude was the perfect utility player all day.
Ynnari Reborn Asuryani Supreme Command
-Yncarne
-Wraithseer w/ Lost Shroud and wraithcannon
-Wraithseer w/ Lord of Rebirth and wraithcannon
-Wraithknight w/ Suncannon & Scattershield, 2x scatter lasers
Surprisingly, the Wraithknight did a ton of work in each of my games. The Wraithseers tanked a ton of damage and combined with the autarch's rerolls did considerable work. The autarch might have been my MVP though. Was great at getting CP back all game, and was the perfect utility unit. Able to plink off wounds with the launcher, eat overwatch, and clear some objectives or assasinate a few characters with the HB
Will definitely play this list again but may try to substitute wyches in lieu of the storm guardians to try and take advantage of the United in Death strat.
This is great. It's similar to the list I posted above. Glad you had some success. That Ynnari Supreme command is so fun to play. I ran sword and board, but might try suncannon next time.
Was a lot of fun to play and thank you for the inspiration. Really straightforward. Basically the point of the list was to make sure I got a single kill each turn to activate Soulburst actions. That wraithknight has a lot of ways to do a ton of work if it's left to survive, ancestor's grace, unbind souls, extra attacks, etc. He one shot a double gat cannon despoiler in melee with stomps, that was pretty sweet, Can't speak enough about the Autarch though. That dude was the perfect utility player all day.
Well my Autarch underperform every game, without the index options he is not so good.
Ynnari Reborn Asuryani Supreme Command
-Yncarne
-Wraithseer w/ Lost Shroud and wraithcannon
-Wraithseer w/ Lord of Rebirth and wraithcannon
-Wraithknight w/ Suncannon & Scattershield, 2x scatter lasers
Surprisingly, the Wraithknight did a ton of work in each of my games. The Wraithseers tanked a ton of damage and combined with the autarch's rerolls did considerable work. The autarch might have been my MVP though. Was great at getting CP back all game, and was the perfect utility unit. Able to plink off wounds with the launcher, eat overwatch, and clear some objectives or assasinate a few characters with the HB
Will definitely play this list again but may try to substitute wyches in lieu of the storm guardians to try and take advantage of the United in Death strat.
This is great. It's similar to the list I posted above. Glad you had some success. That Ynnari Supreme command is so fun to play. I ran sword and board, but might try suncannon next time.
Was a lot of fun to play and thank you for the inspiration. Really straightforward. Basically the point of the list was to make sure I got a single kill each turn to activate Soulburst actions. That wraithknight has a lot of ways to do a ton of work if it's left to survive, ancestor's grace, unbind souls, extra attacks, etc. He one shot a double gat cannon despoiler in melee with stomps, that was pretty sweet, Can't speak enough about the Autarch though. That dude was the perfect utility player all day.
Well my Autarch underperform every game, without the index options he is not so good.
Yep.. without index options he is only a weak support character, here's hoping Legends don't ruin him and he gets some real options soon.
Is anyone else excited for the points drop for the Trium characters? Yncarne is looking particularly tasty, but excited about trying to work them into my lists going forward.
Yncarnes forced warlord attribute is now the naff minus leadership one. That's quite a nerf. That combined with the triple-faction +1a strat going up to 2cp has me really asking, what the hell are GW thinking with Ynnari?
The +1A Stratagem was kinda a no brainer before and somewhat still is. Take some trash to fill detachment like a bunch of death jesters, activate, give +1A to one and to venom or whoever, and get +1A on your main unit for 1CP. The only thing you pay is army composition, and the soul crushing necessity of picking best units of all three factions and building list out of them. Le horror.
Now for 2CP, at least you would use it as intended - on a combined attack. Although you can still just use it on herohammer as well.
When Triumvirate was expensive you could probably argue it was not as good, but with new prices there's basically nothing to be sad about: Yvraine is +1 caster for 115 points (usually those are more expensive) who can even fight in a pinch, Visarch is solid for his points and shows a finger to Vindicars, and Yncarne is, well, Yncarne.
-1 S and -1A is a significant nerf to the Yncarne's output, and completely uncalled for. Same with the strat nerf. Ynnari are so far behind the curve, the fact that GW saw a need to nerf them really says something. Not exactly sure what.
Why would you even make him a Warlord? He would draw too much attention (well, always will, but you get it - it's not a model which is going to stay away from the enemy). It is a lot better to make someone like Biketarch a Warlord and throw a defensive trait/relic on him.
Shadenuat wrote: Why would you even make him a Warlord? He would draw too much attention (well, always will, but you get it - it's not a model which is going to stay away from the enemy). It is a lot better to make someone like Biketarch a Warlord and throw a defensive trait/relic on him.
I agree with this (personally planning to make a Shadowseer with Lord of Rebirth my Warlord).
However, regardless of whether Yncanre as warlord is optimal, there was still no reason to nerf it by giving it a crappier Warlord Trait.
grouchoben wrote: -1 S and -1A is a significant nerf to the Yncarne's output, and completely uncalled for. Same with the strat nerf. Ynnari are so far behind the curve, the fact that GW saw a need to nerf them really says something. Not exactly sure what.
I didnt see this, holy hell thats terrible... maybe i wont play it still.
Shadenuat wrote: Why would you even make him a Warlord? He would draw too much attention (well, always will, but you get it - it's not a model which is going to stay away from the enemy). It is a lot better to make someone like Biketarch a Warlord and throw a defensive trait/relic on him.
You are right, but i still don`t see the point of locking the traits and nerfing them in the first place.
grouchoben wrote: -1 S and -1A is a significant nerf to the Yncarne's output, and completely uncalled for. Same with the strat nerf. Ynnari are so far behind the curve, the fact that GW saw a need to nerf them really says something. Not exactly sure what.
I didnt see this, holy hell thats terrible... maybe i wont play it still.
(Just to clarify, sorry, in case I've mislead: the unit hasn't been nerfed, only its access to what was the perfect warlord trait for it. It's still S6 A6 base.)
grouchoben wrote: -1 S and -1A is a significant nerf to the Yncarne's output, and completely uncalled for. Same with the strat nerf. Ynnari are so far behind the curve, the fact that GW saw a need to nerf them really says something. Not exactly sure what.
I didnt see this, holy hell thats terrible... maybe i wont play it still.
(Just to clarify, sorry, in case I've mislead: the unit hasn't been nerfed, only its access to what was the perfect warlord trait for it. It's still S6 A6 base.)
While the points drop is welcomed, the change in mandatory warlord trait kind of points to what GW thinks the Yncarne should be.
It will be severely hampered in its ability to reliably damage heavy armor and dreads and the such. Losing Str 7 and that extra attack are quite substantial IMO.
I feel that I will find more ways to work Yvraine into soup lists, but overall, I'm not thrilled about what direction Ynnari are headed in right now.
I'm really hoping that something viable comes of this, but I'm struggling to see it.
wannabmoy wrote: While the points drop is welcomed, the change in mandatory warlord trait kind of points to what GW thinks the Yncarne should be.
It will be severely hampered in its ability to reliably damage heavy armor and dreads and the such. Losing Str 7 and that extra attack are quite substantial IMO.
I feel that I will find more ways to work Yvraine into soup lists, but overall, I'm not thrilled about what direction Ynnari are headed in right now.
I'm really hoping that something viable comes of this, but I'm struggling to see it.
At least it kept its reroll wounds, i rarely run mine with a warlord trait and most of the time i'm overkilling my target anyway.
I think that even with that nerf, the points reduction makes it almost an auto-include in my drukhari/craftworld lists.
Amishprn86 wrote: Yeah, i dont take it with a WL trait, my other traits are normally better served somewhere else honestly.
Yeah, the yncarne usually gets targeted quite a lot already, giving up slay the warlord on top of that is a big no-no for me.
And usually elfs are pretty CP hungry between vect/lightning fast reactions/prismatic blur, paying 1 cp to give the yncarne a warlord trait isn't something i'm willing to do.
Amishprn86 wrote: Yeah, i dont take it with a WL trait, my other traits are normally better served somewhere else honestly.
Yeah, the yncarne usually gets targeted quite a lot already, giving up slay the warlord on top of that is a big no-no for me.
Personally, I also like to have the option to suicide the Yncarne, should it prove strategically useful.
VladimirHerzog wrote: And usually elfs are pretty CP hungry between vect/lightning fast reactions/prismatic blur, paying 1 cp to give the yncarne a warlord trait isn't something i'm willing to do.
If you're referring to Exalted of Ynnead, you can't use it on the special characters anyway.
Has anyone come across any solid lists other than Venom Spam where the Yncarne seems to be viable? I love the model and the ruleset, just haven't been able to find a list that seems to synergize well with it yet.
I've been playing my Harlequins as Ynnari for the last three games I played.
My list was
Battalion
Visarch
Yvraine
Yncarne
4x5 Troupes with 3 fusions and a variety of caress, embrace or kiss (with a blade or two in each squad to save points)
Troupe of 8 players with no upgrades
5 Starweavers
2x4 Skyweavers with Haywire and glaves
Death Jester (re-funding CP warlord trait)
Gotta say, without all the pre-game CP stuff, it's really nice starting with 12 CP, and I didn't run out until Battle Round 3, which is nice.
The Ynnari psychic powers are really quite nice. Ansestors Grace is phenominal on the skyweavers, and Unbind Souls is such a good tool. I don't need troupe masters to get re-rolls, as Unbind souls, and the 2CP strat let me pick and chose targets for that.
Visarch letting my dudes re-roll hits of 1 is nice, so I was often hitting on 2's, re-roll 1's and then re-rolling wounds.
Yncarne I'd wait to teleport in the opponents assault phase, so he could counter-attack my following turn. It's a very powerful unit and was MVP in each game, and due to it's teleporting, was very hard to kill.
I played three games, and won three.
one vs Nurgle Demons and Thousand Sons. Narrow win, but the Yncarne and my mobility really pulled through for me.
9th Edition Dark Angels. The transhuman terminators were tough, but I was able to tag his Eradicators in combat with a starweaver T2, and they never shot after that.
Then against Iron Hands, with the Primaris Superheavy tank. I ignored the superheavy, and played for the mission.
In both games vs the space marines, the Yncarne was MVP, and otherwise with my fast moving troupes, I was able to assassinate characters with fusion pretty well.
I'm having way more fun playing my harlequins as Ynnari, than I did with the psychic awakening rules. Strength from death is really nice for them.
I am working on a unit of Incubi and Howling Banshees to be part of two small patrols, so I can run a three faction Ynnari army, which would be pretty cool!
I was chatting to a local player starting up DE and he feels Ynnari have some good legs but he's coming at it from DE which seem to benefit better than say Craftworlds.
Just wanted to share this RTT I just hit up. Only 8 players, but it was the "final" for the 40k community here. Had rankings throughout the year, and invites were only sent to the top players local players. Pretty neat. I decided to bring my pure ynnari list, because honestly they're better than my marines right now it feels like.
Here's the list.
Spoiler:
Reborn Aeldari Patrol
1 The Visarch
1 The Yncarne - Ancestor's Grace, Unbind Souls
5 Dire Avengers
10 Howling Banchees Exarch - Power sword & Shuriken Pistol
10 Howling Banchees Exarch - Power sword & Shuriken Pistol
Reborn Harlequin Patrol
1 Yvraine - Shield of Ynnead, Gaze of Ynnead
1 Troupe Master - Warlord, Hungering Blade, Walker of many paths
5 Troupe - Harlequin Kisses
5 Skyweavers - Zepher Glave, Haywire cannons
5 Skyweavers - Zepher Glave, Haywire cannons (one star bola for points)
I ended up 2-1 taking second place. First game was against Ultramarines. Bunch of aggressors and 3 Sicaran tanks supported by Bobby G and Tiggy. Won the roll off, went first. He redeployed back out of charge range, which ended up letting me set up major field advantage. Survived his shooting pretty well, then cleared half his army T2. Banchees lead the charge, hacked through the aggressors like they were made of paper. Won that one pretty decisively 94-30.
Game 2 was rough. Half mirror match against Soaring spite harlequins. Terrain was player set up, and was horribly imbalanced, and I wasn't careful with my deployment. 2/3rds of my Army gone T1. So I clawed for a few secondary points for the rest of the game. Yvraine killed herself from a double perils T1... Though Amusingly the Visarch survived to t5 by healing off enemy models dying around him. Devastating loss 94-27
Game 3. FSE Tau. He did some work on my Wave Serpents with the commanders, but I kept enough alive to clear out most of his screen and shut down a lot of his shooting. A big play was when the Yncarne was in front of all his commanders along, with some bikers behind them. He was planning to shoot the Yncarne, but got out of order and finished a squad of banchees letting s/he get out of dodge. Then he killed the bikers as a consolation prize... letting the Yncarne pop back up and intervene into his commanders, killing one and silencing two others with a consolidation move. Solid win 83-53
Overall, I'm happy with everything other than my game 2 deployment. I love the army. I really have to vouch for the Banchees, they tear through marines with the Ynnari buffs. Denying overwatch is still relevant, and boy can it be devastating. The ultramarine and Tau players told me they were OPlol. The Yncarne was a boss as always. The Visarch needs more respect, he does a lot of heavy lifting for an 85pt character. And of course bikers are great.
I'm sure a pure Harlequin army would be better, but there's a nice flow to the Ynnari that I perfer.
I love the army. I really have to vouch for the Banchees, they tear through marines with the Ynnari buffs. Denying overwatch is still relevant, and boy can it be devastating. The ultramarine and Tau players told me they were OPlol. The Yncarne was a boss as always. The Visarch needs more respect, he does a lot of heavy lifting for an 85pt character. And of course bikers are great.
.
That's why we do it interesting to hear about Banshees. Did you pair them with the Visarch for rrs?
Sorry to ask such a basic question but can someone explain exactly how to use the Yncarne? I'm starting to put together a Harlequin list and I have always had a soft spot for Dark Eldar wytches so I thought adding some Ynnari stuff in would be fun. But honestly, I just don't understand how to use this dude. His model is ace and it would like me play some fun fluffy lists, but I have no idea how to use him.
laam999 wrote: Sorry to ask such a basic question but can someone explain exactly how to use the Yncarne? I'm starting to put together a Harlequin list and I have always had a soft spot for Dark Eldar wytches so I thought adding some Ynnari stuff in would be fun. But honestly, I just don't understand how to use this dude. His model is ace and it would like me play some fun fluffy lists, but I have no idea how to use him.
Thanks.
Take small units, have him pop up and decimate bigger things nearby with his sword of stabby.
laam999 wrote: Sorry to ask such a basic question but can someone explain exactly how to use the Yncarne? I'm starting to put together a Harlequin list and I have always had a soft spot for Dark Eldar wytches so I thought adding some Ynnari stuff in would be fun. But honestly, I just don't understand how to use this dude. His model is ace and it would like me play some fun fluffy lists, but I have no idea how to use him.
Thanks.
I've never used him/her but they look a bit of a tricky beast to use well. Maybe try to find some battle reports on youtube featuring them?
Played my first eldar soup ynnari game today. Took a drukhari vanguard with a unit of incubi and two ur-ghuls. The ur-ghuls were fantastic as they are small single model units which makes scoring scrambers super easy, and are easy to kill which activates strength from death.
Played against the new death guard, which featured mortarion. Played cagey and won 78-75. Yncarne is such a good unit, but I really need more practice with using it.made a couple of position mistakes which cost me that model.
I really want to get a small craftworlds detachment next, as I think an autaech akyrunner would be a great character. In ynnari.
