Danny76 wrote: So are the rules in the box separate, or somewhere in that book mixed into all the contents.
What’s page 54-58 with the “rules” bit
The rules are available separately by buying the Core Rulebook. It is not in this expansion box
Jesus...
Read the conversation.
They said the rules Are in it.
Though they appear not looking at that book.
Hence the discussion..
We all know this is an expansion.
You asked a question, I answered. That’’s called having a discussion.
WarCom is frequently wrong and they are again here. The ToC is quite clear. The picture of what comes in the box is quite clear. There is no additional book or pamphlet.
As for pages 54-58, those are in the faction specific part of the rules, not the general section. So, it will apply to either both SM/Necron or one of them.
Chopstick wrote: Look like a whole 9th ed update for marine with deathwatch
Oh boy, I can't wait to see this gigantic middle finger to all the DW primaris players called 'suxxx to be you, no rules or wargear for you whatsoever'.
Or are they going to make the 40K insult even worse and actually drop this insane idiocy and give DW rules they had for years back to further piss 40KDW players by reminding them what they are missing now? Place your bets (ahahahaha, not gonna happen, no bit no rule is king now, what, you thought KT is some sort of customizable skirmish wargame with tons of conversions, upgrades and special equipment available for your squad? )...
Deathwatch Veterans are one of the datasheets shown in the Table of Contents (page 87), so I would guess the intention is for Deathwatch to be removed as a separate faction in Kill Team and instead them being pulled into the "Marine" faction, like in 9th edition 40k and as was already the case in Kill Team for Space Wolves & Dark/Blood Angels. So likely Deathwatch players will actually get access to a lot more toys in Kill Team now.
Actually, looking closer, there's also "Deathwatch" from page 67-69. That's likely their specific rules including special ammo. I would be surprised if they did not get access to the same units they now have access to in 40k as well; like all the Phobos units Deathwatch couldn't use in Kill Team previously. And the Watchmaster datasheet is in there as well (page 79), so looks like everything Deathwatch needs is in this book.
H.B.M.C. wrote: No regular Marine characters in power armour.
There are plenty of datasheets for those already in Kill Team. I don't see the new sheets invalidating the old ones when duplicates dont exist in the new expansion.
When I look at which datasheets are included in the new expansion, and account for the fact that there are indomitus (re)release models coming to preorder at exactly the same time as this expansion, it's not hard to see what GW wnats you to buy hehe! Hint: It's not firstborn marines..
This of course means that firstborn marines will remain @ 1W in Kill Team, at least for the time being.. But since flesh wounds are so commonplace and they already have transhuman physiology, it's not such a big deal. A lucky 1W model can easily outlive a 2W model if the 2W model fudges their injury rolls.
This of course means that firstborn marines will remain @ 1W in Kill Team, at least for the time being.. But since flesh wounds are so commonplace and they already have transhuman physiology, it's not such a big deal. A lucky 1W model can easily outlive a 2W model if the 2W model fudges their injury rolls.
All the Adeptus Astartes datasheets are updated in Pariah Nexus. They all have their 9th edition profiles. So Tactical Marines are 2W now.
This of course means that firstborn marines will remain @ 1W in Kill Team, at least for the time being.. But since flesh wounds are so commonplace and they already have transhuman physiology, it's not such a big deal. A lucky 1W model can easily outlive a 2W model if the 2W model fudges their injury rolls.
All the Adeptus Astartes datasheets are updated in Pariah Nexus. They all have their 9th edition profiles. So Tactical Marines are 2W now.
They are? Sweet!
So this means the new datasheets just became very desirable to me, as I mainly play firstborn & scouts.. I really hope these datasheets will be available separately as well? I really dont want to buy the Pariah Nexus box just for the rules & HI's..
I'll resort to ebay if I can't make a split deal with someone in our "clan" - But I think there might be someone who would want the necron half so I should be Ok hehe
More info on how Flayed one will defeat beefcake marine with their gauss blaster.
JK they suck, and they don't have gauss blaster.
BTW if you're wondering what's their sick "9th ed" flayed claw with armor piercing look like, they're S4 -1AP and 1 damage, but has lost their wound re-roll, so against beefcake marine with T5 , they still couldn't stand a chance.
Oh and a hit roll of 6 give 1 more hit, so that's something.
Although, Necron do get 8 new tactics, so maybe it'll be something like 1CP to fight/move again for the Flayed one, or give them +20" movement
Voss wrote: Bunch of characters in terminator armor, so several.
You know what I mean...
Funnily enough, DW terminator characters got shafted almost as strongly as primaris were in the DW book (melta fists, SIA and xenophase blades vanishing, special flamer ammo limited to one quasi-character in the whole army) so you actually hit the jackpot while trying to miss
AduroT wrote: Apparently the new Flayer Ones are on 28mm bases? Man, Necron base sizes are all over the place. I miss the relative consistency of Marines.
AduroT wrote: Apparently the new Flayer Ones are on 28mm bases? Man, Necron base sizes are all over the place. I miss the relative consistency of Marines.
AduroT wrote: Apparently the new Flayer Ones are on 28mm bases? Man, Necron base sizes are all over the place. I miss the relative consistency of Marines.
Are they? I'm pretty sure they are on 32 MM.
That seems so odd, especially since the Chronomancer is on a 40 MM base. They don't look like 28 MM in their pictures.
More and more units are going to 28mm. It seems that 28mm is the new 25mm for... a middle ground between... bah. Theres no logic, like repentia in 28 and sisters on 32. GW just decided that. Is not like it matters.
Sasori wrote: I'm assuming it's a typo like the 65 MM for the reanimator and SKorpekh Lord. The pictures do not look like 28 MM compared to the 40 MM chronomancer.
Though they put Cryptothralls on 28 mm... so who knows.
I doubt it is a typo. Warcry uses 28mm bases for some figures.* GW just wants to make sure you can't use 3rd party sculpted bases. By the same token the Shattered Dominion base set they sell does not have the 28mm bases either.
*In one of my Warcry warbands they came with 4 different base sizes, 25mm, 28mm, 32mm, and 40mm? Was that really necessary? I don't think so.
AduroT wrote: Cryptos are on 32s aren’t they? I don’t recall them being smaller, only the Plasmacyte.
Correct, Cryptothralls are on 32 (there was only a single 28 in Indomitus, IIRC, for the Plasmacyte).
Flayed Ones would look rather odd on 28 next to warriors, especially given how much these new sculpts sprawl.
On the other hand, GW doesn't have any sense of consistency with basing anymore. When they started mixing bases for Neophyte GSC, I just threw up my hands and started ignoring them. The giant plate for the SoB Hospitaller was just the nail in the coffin.
AduroT wrote: Cryptos are on 32s aren’t they? I don’t recall them being smaller, only the Plasmacyte.
Correct, Cryptothralls are on 32 (there was only a single 28 in Indomitus, IIRC, for the Plasmacyte).
Flayed Ones would look rather odd on 28 next to warriors, especially given how much these new sculpts sprawl.
Yeah, my bad, I got them mixed up in my mind. The Plasmacyte are 28 MM.
I'm going to go check my models and do a quick comparison.
Galas wrote: More and more units are going to 28mm. It seems that 28mm is the new 25mm for... a middle ground between... bah. Theres no logic, like repentia in 28 and sisters on 32. GW just decided that. Is not like it matters.
They've said before that what size base a unit uses comes down to what the model looks best on.
I really like the Marines, with normal infantry on 32s, Gravis on 40s, and characters on 40s. Iirc the one exception are the Eliminators as non-character/Gravis on 40s.
Getting the Indomitus Necrons was a shock where the characters were on different ones. Really wanna put all the characters on 40s. Would definitely bump the Flayed Ones to 32s as well if I got any, though I don’t currently plan to.
Sasori wrote: yeah, 28 MM seems like a really odd choice after everything shifted to 32 MM.
Banshees are on 28s now instead of 25s, so this must be the new size for more "human" sized minis. Armoured up ones get 32s. I don't know of any new releases on 25s these days.
Sasori wrote: yeah, 28 MM seems like a really odd choice after everything shifted to 32 MM.
Banshees are on 28s now instead of 25s, so this must be the new size for more "human" sized minis. Armoured up ones get 32s. I don't know of any new releases on 25s these days.
Well, even the humble Necron Warrior is on a 32 MM now. The only thing left 28 MM are Plasmacytes. Makes zero sense, but It's confirmed 100% they are 28 MM in the Necron Discord now.
Sasori wrote: I'm assuming it's a typo like the 65 MM for the reanimator and SKorpekh Lord. The pictures do not look like 28 MM compared to the 40 MM chronomancer.
Though they put Cryptothralls on 28 mm... so who knows.
I doubt it is a typo. Warcry uses 28mm bases for some figures.* GW just wants to make sure you can't use 3rd party sculpted bases. By the same token the Shattered Dominion base set they sell does not have the 28mm bases either.
*In one of my Warcry warbands they came with 4 different base sizes, 25mm, 28mm, 32mm, and 40mm? Was that really necessary? I don't think so.
I 100% agree that GW probably doesn't give one flying about 3rd parties that provide accessories to their games.
On the other hand, I can't imagine them making such a strange change *expressly* for the purpose of pissing off people who make sculpted bases. Like, it's such a niche thing that only serves to add-on to the miniature you already bought from GW - I can't see them even registering on their radar.
Maybe it's partly to discourage use of the old metal models, or any 3rd party or 3D printed versions?
Sasori wrote: yeah, 28 MM seems like a really odd choice after everything shifted to 32 MM.
Banshees are on 28s now instead of 25s, so this must be the new size for more "human" sized minis. Armoured up ones get 32s. I don't know of any new releases on 25s these days.
Well, even the humble Necron Warrior is on a 32 MM now. The only thing left 28 MM are Plasmacytes. Makes zero sense, but It's confirmed 100% they are 28 MM in the Necron Discord now.
I'm starting Drukhari for KT/9th and the plastic Incubi came on 28mm, Kabalite Warriors and Wyches are still on 25mm bases, which was a problem after converting a 6th Incubi out of a Warrior, and not having the correct size base :/ So it really does seem to depend on the model. 28mm bases are newer than 32mm by a year or two, so it's likely some models originally got shifted to 32s that would have worked better on 28mm, and some dynamic human/elf sized models work a little better with a couple extra mm space. The old Necron Warriors never fit on the original 25mm ones and worked well on 32mm, but the new ones aren't as wide-legged and probably would have been fine on 28mm. But then you have the ridiculous ones like Teclis on a 140mm base that he nowhere near fills up, so who the feth knows with GW sometimes
Cryptek of Awesome wrote: I 100% agree that GW probably doesn't give one flying about 3rd parties that provide accessories to their games.
On the other hand, I can't imagine them making such a strange change *expressly* for the purpose of pissing off people who make sculpted bases. Like, it's such a niche thing that only serves to add-on to the miniature you already bought from GW - I can't see them even registering on their radar.
Maybe it's partly to discourage use of the old metal models, or any 3rd party or 3D printed versions?
It is GW. Nothing that effects their sales escapes their radar. GW started changing base sizes in 40k even before they launched the Primaris marines, and at the same time they started selling Sector Imperialis base kits for 40k. An added benefit is veterans with existing armies either have to rebase or buy new figures. And before you say that you can use your old figures in a friendly game, read the threads in the AoS section where people using old WHFB figures get b*****d at for not rebasing to the proper sized round bases. Have not paid attention to W40k threads, but I assume the same applies. "Hey! That should be on a 32mm! You're getting more figures into HtH, you cheater!"
Cryptek of Awesome wrote: I 100% agree that GW probably doesn't give one flying about 3rd parties that provide accessories to their games.
On the other hand, I can't imagine them making such a strange change *expressly* for the purpose of pissing off people who make sculpted bases. Like, it's such a niche thing that only serves to add-on to the miniature you already bought from GW - I can't see them even registering on their radar.
Maybe it's partly to discourage use of the old metal models, or any 3rd party or 3D printed versions?
It is GW. Nothing that effects their sales escapes their radar. GW started changing base sizes in 40k even before they launched the Primaris marines, and at the same time they started selling Sector Imperialis base kits for 40k. An added benefit is veterans with existing armies either have to rebase or buy new figures. And before you say that you can use your old figures in a friendly game, read the threads in the AoS section where people using old WHFB figures get b*****d at for not rebasing to the proper sized round bases. Have not paid attention to W40k threads, but I assume the same applies. "Hey! That should be on a 32mm! You're getting more figures into HtH, you cheater!"
If someone out there wants to spend time they could be playing a game to bitch at me for my first born on their old bases, I'm their huckleberry. They can try and get in my face all they want but unless they are going to pay for all my new bases, and use their efforts to base them all anew and paint it all up nice, I'll do what I do with my stuff. If they won't play against them that is their loss.
Base size and the ups and downs are a GW formulated problem because they want to play magical base size the game. They leave it to us to drive each other crazy over our bases. Just don't hound each other over them and it'll be all good. There are good and bad points to base sizes.
Just look at bikes, at first they came with those terrible square bases, some didn't base them at all then. Then the thin oval one was the size, now its the fat oval, I like the thin ones so I use them for my regular bikes and stick with the fat ovals for the outriders. If someone is going to get in my face about it ? Well I can spend an afternoon arguing, just will feel like another day in the dakka trenches.
I just started putting together some Necrons for Kill Team, hoping to add these new Flayed ones.
I've put the warriors, immortals, deathmarks, lychguard, praetorians all on 32mm necromunda bases. I have loads of the 25mm Necromunda bases spare too. Seems GW don't make the Necromunda themed bases in 28mm, so I'll have to hope that 25/32mm doesn't offend anyone for the flayed ones.
I mean, all my Necron warriors are on whatever the old ones originally came with. 25’s?
They always did overhang.
Won’t change them, too much effort.
And bigger bases don’t fit the classic 25mm base slot in many troops trays.
Danny76 wrote: I mean, all my Necron warriors are on whatever the old ones originally came with. 25’s?
They always did overhang.
Won’t change them, too much effort.
And bigger bases don’t fit the classic 25mm base slot in many troops trays.
What effort? Just stack the 25mm on top of a 32mm base.
I recollect reading the following text from a 40K rulebook once:
"You can mount the model on a bigger base if you wish, but not on a smaller one."
I take it that this instruction is no longer canon? I still follow that one and use bigger bases on any models I feel like, based on the looks. A "correct" sized base just looks best somehow. 28mm looks okay on a smaller mini, but 32 and even 40 mil can look a lot better depending on the size of the model's lower surface area and the particular pose(s).
However, I don't mix and match base sizes within a single unit; that would be too confusing no doubt.
I don't consider any of that to being "modelling for advantage", a base size always comes attached to its advantages and disadvantages. A bigger base isnt always better.
Danny76 wrote: I mean, all my Necron warriors are on whatever the old ones originally came with. 25’s?
They always did overhang.
Won’t change them, too much effort.
And bigger bases don’t fit the classic 25mm base slot in many troops trays.
What effort? Just stack the 25mm on top of a 32mm base.
It’s the same scenario as doing all my squares to rounds where people said you can do similar etc. even that is too much effort
Though my main issue is room in the carry cases would be all thrown out.
Sasori wrote: yeah, 28 MM seems like a really odd choice after everything shifted to 32 MM.
Banshees are on 28s now instead of 25s, so this must be the new size for more "human" sized minis. Armoured up ones get 32s. I don't know of any new releases on 25s these days.
The new Arco-Flagellants from the Sisters line were released on 25 mm bases. Compared to Repentia on 28 mm bases, the Arco's have +1S and +1W, so the profile isn't really saying anything about the bases either. I doubt that between all the different armies you'll be able to find a logical explanation for all the bases chosen, apart from "that's what they apparently liked to use."
How? If you are measuring movement using a.fixed point on a circular base, how do you get more movement?
I remember the additional.movement shenanigans from Raiders and even land raiders when vehicle movement changed to permit free turning, but I cant see that working for infantry.
Maybe it's partly to discourage use of the old metal models, or any 3rd party or 3D printed versions?
How? GW doesn't enforce basing. Only ones who do are PLAYERS. GW doesn't give a damn which base you use as long as it came with that model when you bought. You could even use tyranid warriors with 40mm base and it would be 100% legal as far as GW goes...
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Kalamadea wrote: But then you have the ridiculous ones like Teclis on a 140mm base that he nowhere near fills up, so who the feth knows with GW sometimes
Seeing Teclis fills up in one direction 160mm base...yes it would fill. And go overboard.
160mm oval and we are talking about smaller base for Teclis that it doesn't overflow
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Ancestral Hamster wrote: It is GW. Nothing that effects their sales escapes their radar. GW started changing base sizes in 40k even before they launched the Primaris marines, and at the same time they started selling Sector Imperialis base kits for 40k. An added benefit is veterans with existing armies either have to rebase or buy new figures. And before you say that you can use your old figures in a friendly game, read the threads in the AoS section where people using old WHFB figures get b*****d at for not rebasing to the proper sized round bases. Have not paid attention to W40k threads, but I assume the same applies. "Hey! That should be on a 32mm! You're getting more figures into HtH, you cheater!"
Note how what you claim is said by PLAYERS. It's the PLAYERS who are imposing base sizes. GAMES WORKSHOP isn't. PLAYERS are. And as for cheater...That means going against the rule. OFFICIAL GAMES WORKSHOP RULES don't specify sizes. Therefore any CHEATER is actually the ones who impose base sizes for others. It's the PLAYERS WHO COMPLAIN ABOUT BASES who are the REAL cheaters. You literally cannot be cheater when you play by official rules made by the company who wrote the rules in the way the company intended to be played.
How? If you are measuring movement using a.fixed point on a circular base, how do you get more movement?
I remember the additional.movement shenanigans from Raiders and even land raiders when vehicle movement changed to permit free turning, but I cant see that working for infantry.
"The distance a model moves is measured using the part of the model's base that move the furthest from its starting position"
If you put both model behind a line with the edge of the base touching it, and both of them move orthogonally away from that line and crossing it, yeah they moved the same distance.
How ever that isn't always the case, since this game isn't a one direction sidescroller, if the bigger base model move in any other direction, it'll end up further than the smaller one. The most obvious example is that both model move orthogonally from the line in the opposite direction (and not crossing it)
privateer4hire wrote: Especially when you measure from the front of the base and then move until the back of your bases are at/beyond that line.
Uuuhh....that's cheating...That's got nothing to do with bases. That's flat out cheating. Is it fault of bases if I take up my model and put it 50" away? Same thing. You are ignoring the rules. You cheat. Bases are irrelevant. You measure from same point. No point of model can move further than it started. This btw means you can't even rotate freely. Say your rhino turns 180 degree around the back of rhino can't have moved more than rhino's M value in the end. So because you turned around you can't move as far as if you had kept orientation. You need to move rhino's length less...(easier to keep orientation in that case!).
Bases don't make you move further. Cheating does.
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Chopstick wrote: How ever that isn't always the case, since this game isn't a one direction sidescroller, if the bigger base model move in any other direction, it'll end up further than the smaller one. The most obvious example is that both model move orthogonally from the line in the opposite direction (and not crossing it)
And how you ensure no single point moves further than it started with? Literally every point. Each point can move no further than M value. If part of model can't move as far because other model hangs you cannot move. Read above example. You cannot turn rhino 180 degree(ie front looks where back was) if it means any part of rear has moved further than M value...(okay that's bit silly since there's no in game benefit but that's the rules).
If any part moves further you are cheating. No difference to moving where-ever you want.
The guy who is using old base size isn't cheater. HE is following official rules. The guy who insist on different size is cheater. And the guy who moves base so that every part of base isn't within M value from point base started with is cheater.
You moved the same distance, but your bigger base make it easier to "touch" other thing.
If it was so hard to see with your eyes, I'll put my guy on a 100mm base to make it's easier to demonstrate, put him behind a line. Turn 1 i move orthogonally crossing the line, turn 2 i move sideway, and my 100mm base guy is now much closer to my target than the 25mm base guy, even though they moved the same distance. WITCHCRAFT!!!?
No, he's right, but even the difference between 100mm and 25mm base is so marginally tiny, that I don't think it would even matter when comparing 25mm, 28mm, and 32mm bases over a whole game.
100m and 25mm compared with each red arrow being 10" move.
Note how what you claim is said by PLAYERS. It's the PLAYERS who are imposing base sizes. GAMES WORKSHOP isn't.
GW changes Base Sizes on a regular bases, with the rules always saying "use the bases that come with the model"
and there is no real reason to do that all except for changing model size and therefore needing a bigger base, or make it harder for 3rd party bases (because they need to change them as well as now one buys 25mm when GW uses 28 and 32mm bases)
Chopstick wrote: You moved the same distance, but your bigger base make it easier to "touch" other thing.
If it was so hard to see with your eyes, I'll put my guy on a 100mm base to make it's easier to demonstrate, put him behind a line. Turn 1 i move orthogonally crossing the line, turn 2 i move sideway, and my 100mm base guy is now much closer to my target than the 25mm base guy, even though they moved the same distance. WITCHCRAFT!!!?
nah, it's common sense.
Umm... that's probably because the 100mm base guy started closer to the target. I assume your example is supposed to have both the 100mm and 25mm base start from the same hypothetical position with the front rim of the base touching the same position on your arbitrary line. If the models move the same.distance forward and then the same distance at 90 degrees to the first move, then yes the 100mm base model will be closer. However, if the 25mm model can be positioned in such a way as to make the same move.
The 100mm base permits a larger threat area because it could move in either direction, while the 25mm base would need to traverse the size of the larger base to go in the opposite direction.
However that is different from being able to move further. Smaller bases have other advantages in terms of terrain, and also the difference that this hypothetical.case makes when considering a unit of more than one model, and a difference between a 28mm and 32mm base is probably.negligible.
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Hanskrampf wrote: No, he's right, but even the difference between 100mm and 25mm base is so marginally tiny, that I don't think it would even matter when comparing 25mm, 28mm, and 32mm bases over a whole game.
100m and 25mm compared with each red arrow being 10" move.
But this is a misleading diagram because the 25mm model can move the same.distance at a slightly different angle.in the first.turn to.reach the same distance in the second turn.
The distance that can be moved is the same, but the larger base provides a larger threat envelope over multiple.turns.
on 100mm the distance different is HUGE, especially if you decide to go backward follow the black arrow. But my fist point was that you move a bit further, and over multiple turn they added up, every inch count, especially for charging unit.
And my point is that the larger base doesn't move any further, but because it is a larger base it is already closer to other things. I would do a diagram, but I'm on my phone, apologies.
What so you'd realistically want to use a 100mil base on a model that comes with a 28mil, just because you think it would give you an advantage?
Go right on ahead I say (and good luck fitting into ruined buildings, especially on the upper levels)! You'll have quite alot of problems trying to find cover compared to other infantry minis
Like I said, bigger isnt always better. Every size has it's pros and cons. Stup trying to overthink it.
Flinty wrote: And my point is that the larger base doesn't move any further, but because it is a larger base it is already closer to other things. I would do a diagram, but I'm on my phone, apologies.
Well of course, technically they moved the same distance, you say the edge of the base is closer to the target, i say the edge of my base is further away than if i had use a smaller base, same stuff.
Flinty wrote: And my point is that the larger base doesn't move any further, but because it is a larger base it is already closer to other things. I would do a diagram, but I'm on my phone, apologies.
Well of course, technically they moved the same distance, you say the edge of the base is closer to the target, i say the edge of my base is further away than if i had use a smaller base, same stuff.
But it's not the same. The smaller base is further away at the end of the example, because at the start of the problem you started the smaller base further away from the final target. You also made the bases follow exactly the same path, even though by taking a slightly different path, the smaller base could make up most, if not all, of the difference.
Being bigger doesn't make you faster, it makes you take up more space. Being deployed against the line and the board edge while moving towards a target also deployed against the board edge means the 25mm base gets there first. Does that mean 100mm bases are slower now? Obviously not, it just started closer.
And that conspiracy about GW changing bases sizes to squeeze out decorative base manufacturers is well into tinfoil hat territory. GW doesn't even sell decorative 28mm bases. Go check their site. If it's anything at all beyond "the artist thought it looked cooler", and that's probably the real reason, it was a move to reconcile the "normal" base size with the fact that they use inches as their default measurement. Moving to 28s removes the issue where "within 1 inch" would include two ranks of 25mm bases thanks to that extra .4mm. It hasn't been implemented properly for that to be the case, but who knows, that may have been part of the reason and then it got lost in the mess that is GW's organizational structure.
Well I'm sold, I'll now be mounting all my Drukhari on 100mm bases. For Kill Team. What an utterly ridiculous discussion.
Looking at the pictures, the Flayed Ones look like they fit very well on 28mm bases, they look right to me. Honestly, I wish 28mm bases had been out at the same time as 32mm, because the regular non-primaris marines would look WAY on 28s than on 32s. So I went on ebay and low & behold, there's already packs of generic black plastic beveled bases being produced (search for 28.5mm bases). For $20 I have 100 coming just to have on hand so I can toss models on whatever looks most appropriate. The same sellers sell packs of 32mm plastic black beveled bases, so if you like the Necrons on the larger bases, you can do so very easily
Never been that bothered about base size, and will change them if they don't feel right. For example, the Harlequin characters like the Shadowseer or Solitaire, I gave them a larger base for balance.
No need for fancy charts or pretty graphs. It's actually pretty simple. If you're a tournament player, you're going to base them on 28mm bases and be done with it. Anyone else can do what they please.
Sasori wrote: I'm assuming it's a typo like the 65 MM for the reanimator and SKorpekh Lord.
65mm for Reanimator and Skorpekh Lord is not a typo, that is the actual size of the base that is usually referred to as 60mm. I was surprised to see that GW used the correct size for once.
28mm is lovely base size for many miniatures, I use them for Plaguebearers and several Necromunda warbands. However, it's annoyingly half a millimetre less thick than 32mm bases. While Flayed ones may look good on 28mm's, I think it's weird that they have smaller base size than Necron Warriors.
In fact all my Primaris from Conquest (subbed for expanding my DG) I only kept for Kill Team, albeit a large one now with a lot of choice (first 20 issues).
Now there’s an idea, they could have done the next subscription based on getting Kill Team sized lots for several factions. That way it could have been sprues of 5 even from kits of 10 etc, but more varied units.
Everyone would have like 10 to 15 Kill teams. Potential to turn into full armies or expand the Kill Teams.
Strg Alt wrote: Kill-team fails because the models consist of regular 40K minis.
Kill-team succeeds because the models consist of regular 40K minis.
It's another way to use models you already have or make use of models you like but wouldn't build a whole army around.
Nope, it failed otherwise I would have bought some of the stuff. Kill-Team is just 40K on a budget.
Hadn’t realised till now they were basing things around getting you specifically to buy things, thought maybe it was just purchasing in general was the aim.
They did seem to try out a WarCry-esque method of "new faction not just rebadged 40k boxes" with Rogue Trader...and it did not seem well received.
WarCry works for a reason. It's tied specifically to one locality that every faction has a reason to go after. The other big thing is that outside of the Khainite Shadowstalkers...all of the WarCry warbands? They're all from Slaves to Darkness. The rest of the warbands are just plain AoS stuff.
Kanluwen wrote: They did seem to try out a WarCry-esque method of "new faction not just rebadged 40k boxes" with Rogue Trader...and it did not seem well received.
WarCry works for a reason. It's tied specifically to one locality that every faction has a reason to go after.
The other big thing is that outside of the Khainite Shadowstalkers...all of the WarCry warbands? They're all from Slaves to Darkness. The rest of the warbands are just plain AoS stuff.
Granted, they were extremely poorly incorporated into Slaves to Darkness up until Broken Realms: Morathi brought Idolators AND an errata was issued to make Cultists in Idolators get marks. I don't think anybody was buying Warcry boxes for much beyond playing Warcry and maybe coincidentally novelty units within your force.
(I'm interpreting your comments as suggesting Warcry is more popular because the unique boxes were more interesting to AoS players than the Rogue Trader boxes were to 40k players. which I don't think is the case. UNLESS your point is that they're fully fledged members of Slaves to Darkness unlike the Gellarpox and Rogue Traders who are weird, standalone armies that can't be easily incorporated into anything in which case kindly ignore my entire rambling post)
It's the latter--but you've brought up another good point, as it's worth noting that the individual warbands were available individually. Rogue Traders and Gellerpox Infected weren't able to be purchased separately.
Also worth noting that the actual warbands, even with Broken Realms, are still considered a bit lacklustre since they are weird mixed units.
Also for what it's worth, they later came out with the double boxes because the warbands were customizable beyond what came in the box. Want to take 2 of the big crow stilts guys? You can! AFAIK, that wasn't the case with Gellarpox or Rogue Traders.
Kanluwen wrote: Ehh...they came out with the double boxes because you could have good sized units and the WarCry cards would be extraneous buying two of the same set.
You can use the Warcry cultists in a Slaves of Darkness army for AoS. Since I don't play AoS, I don't know how useful that is. However, the Untamed Beasts can take a 6" move after both armies are set up but before the first turn, which I'd imagine would be situationally useful, depending on scenario or objectives.
Killteam didn't fail, even though they used the simplified 8th rule as base, there're still fair amount of choice and customisation.With elite and commander, game is pretty much a complete package.
Rogue trader was meh, because the value was poor as the time of release. Customisation and weapon choice are 0, and the Rogue trader team are all shoved inside a tiny sprue, so many of the models have the sameish boring pose.
Warcry is an even more simplified skirmish game, no faction trait, no unique passive for unit, no wargear, weapon choice and model variety for the original warbands are poor, because the kits are too small. The AoS warbands pretty much beat the original warbands in every aspect: more unit variety, more choice, more abilities.
Killteam is the better game, i didn't need to roll for crit to beat a meatbag like Warcry, the tactics and specialist abilities in KT are very good and is a lot more useful than many Warcry's abilities.
The thing with the Rogue Trader box is that it was fundamentally a very different theme to normal Kill Team; normal Kill Team is a squad based skirmish system set in normal 40k battle zones with the standard armies, whereas Rogue Trader is semi-civilians in more of a dungeon crawl arrangement.
If they wanted to do a Kill Team dungeon crawl, they’d have been better doing a Zone Mortalis or even a Space Hulk theme.
The Rogue Trader squad they designed feels more at home in Blackstone Fortress. And that’s before we get into the fixed build of the Rogue Trader squad, versus the custom squad flexibility at the core of Kill Team.
They were made for KT, that's why there are a bunch of voidsmen on the team, Warhammer Quest minimized the appearance of squad and minions on the hero team. Some heroes are also too weak and ill equipped to be a Quest hero. And the Nurgle team they're fighting are their crewmates infected with the virus. (except the glitchlings, margots and flies)
The idea could work but it require effort from the designer team and GW stopped being stingy on the budget.
There is a bit of news in that article (emphasis added):
We’ll have much more to share with you regarding the next evolution of Kill Team over the coming months, so make sure to follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram to keep up with the latest.
It seems like this won't be released anytime soon...
A bit let down with the alternate cryptek heads, but not sure what I expected. Only so many ways to do a cryptek head
Also, the flayed ones extend so far beyond their bases. One's got his claw all the way down the side of his base, etc. Flayed ones shouldn't be on massive bases, but the way these models are posed, they wouldn't look out of place with destroyer sized bases
jullevi wrote: Pre-orders are up on NZ site. Looks like Killzones contain less terrain than previously. Boo hiss.
Oh wow, yeah that's a hell of a lot less. I was going to buy four, that's now gonna be zero. I think they've reached my tipping point again. I'll check back in a year to see if the pricing has become acceptable to me again I suppose.
Sector Fronteris seems to have been significantly less gutted than the others. Seems to have lost one of the medium ruin sprue and gained a smaller ruin sprue instead (originally version had 2 of the sprues with the Inquisitor crates, new box has 2). This one might actually make for a more interesting board than the original.
The other two killzones have been gutted.
I was hoping for a wall of Martyrs rerelease but definitely won’t pick it up it it’s gutted the same way.
There is a bit of news in that article (emphasis added):
We’ll have much more to share with you regarding the next evolution of Kill Team over the coming months, so make sure to follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram to keep up with the latest.
It seems like this won't be released anytime soon...
It sounds like that’s some more stuff coming for Kill Team.
Not a bad thing as we’ve had nothing for a good while.
GaroRobe wrote: A bit let down with the alternate cryptek heads, but not sure what I expected. Only so many ways to do a cryptek head
Eh? I guess, but I've never really thought of the cryptek heads as particularly important- just their non-standard staves and wargear bobs.
It seems really notable that the new crypteks specifically can't be put together just by converting an immortal with a leftover staff from a fantasy kit.
But I'm really surprised this one is two sprues. Rather unusual for a character.
Also, the flayed ones extend so far beyond their bases. One's got his claw all the way down the side of his base, etc. Flayed ones shouldn't be on massive bases, but the way these models are posed, they wouldn't look out of place with destroyer sized bases
Yeah, I'd put them on 32 like warriors (and all the other infantry). Putting them on a smaller base looks weird for the model AND for the overall look of the army.
Jadenim wrote: The thing with the Rogue Trader box is that it was fundamentally a very different theme to normal Kill Team; normal Kill Team is a squad based skirmish system set in normal 40k battle zones with the standard armies, whereas Rogue Trader is semi-civilians in more of a dungeon crawl arrangement.
If they wanted to do a Kill Team dungeon crawl, they’d have been better doing a Zone Mortalis or even a Space Hulk theme.
The Rogue Trader squad they designed feels more at home in Blackstone Fortress. And that’s before we get into the fixed build of the Rogue Trader squad, versus the custom squad flexibility at the core of Kill Team.
I agree with you that the Rogue Trader box feels like Blackstone Fortress stuff.
But I disagree about RT being a miss. I love the miniatures and love the fact that those and BSF minis have rules for Kill Team. All of these various characters make very characterful leaders and specialists to many types of Kill Teams, Admech, Tau/Kroot, Guard, Sisters, Eldar, Chaos.. Heck, we might even get some connection to spindle drones & the Necrons soon by the looks of it!
KT Rogue Trader as a self-contained game is not all that great. The missions and the board itself feels a bit underwhelming. You need to mix it all up with all the existing 40K stuff.
The Blackstone fortress characters are pretty good, and cheap.
2/3 Rogue trader characters are pretty terrible while the "good" character (knosso pond) is expensive. But it doesn't matter because you can't bring them outside.
Rogue Trader as a team is god awful, their only source of reliable damage is the gatling gunner and voidsmaster nitsh, you take both of these fighters out and the team will fall apart.
Well, my preorder is in. Hopefully this box will ship on schedule, I selected local store pickup as the delivery method, which hopefully speeds things up a bit.
Pariah Nexus product page states KT core rulebook is required (but not dice even though no dice is included in box which is slightly careless in the product description).
Killzones sets are marked as limited availability on Wayland Games. I hope they aren't gone in a flash. Otherwise what's the point of going to the bother for the Killzones book? Why not release non-Pariah Nexus boards for non-Necron/Space Marine players to promote the close combat rules in Pariah Nexus.
So can anyone figure out what the difference between various heavy intercessor guns is supposed to be? GW has not bothered to show the variants assembled, but looking at the sprue pics, I can just see a bunch of nigh identical ammo boxes. They will be even harder to tell apart than normal intercessor or hellblaster weapons.
Crimson wrote: So can anyone figure out what the difference between various heavy intercessor guns is supposed to be?
Box magazines, drum magazines, exotic shape in between magazines? That's my best guess.
Crimson wrote: GW has not bothered to show the variants assembled, but looking at the sprue pics, I can just see a bunch of nigh identical ammo boxes. They will be even harder to tell apart than normal intercessor or hellblaster weapons.
Probably? There's only so many variations of the same gun GW can do before the differences become marginal and hard to tell apart.
Crimson wrote: So can anyone figure out what the difference between various heavy intercessor guns is supposed to be?
Box magazines, drum magazines, exotic shape in between magazines? That's my best guess.
Crimson wrote: GW has not bothered to show the variants assembled, but looking at the sprue pics, I can just see a bunch of nigh identical ammo boxes. They will be even harder to tell apart than normal intercessor or hellblaster weapons.
Probably? There's only so many variations of the same gun GW can do before the differences become marginal and hard to tell apart.
Yeah, only the magazines/ammo boxes under the guns are different. GW is only showing the normal heavy bolt rifles and heavy bolter. The hellstorm bolt rifle has a round magazine and the magazine of the executor bolt rifle is longer then that of the heavy bolt rifle and has a skull and crossbones on it.
Crimson wrote: So can anyone figure out what the difference between various heavy intercessor guns is supposed to be? GW has not bothered to show the variants assembled, but looking at the sprue pics, I can just see a bunch of nigh identical ammo boxes. They will be even harder to tell apart than normal intercessor or hellblaster weapons.
There are 3 type of bolter, each have a heavy version, which is the "heavy bolter" with different type of mag just like the bolter.
So I read the description of Pariah Nexus on the NZ site. It looks like the description doesn't mention anything about the Core Rules (which were confirmed not to be in the box). GW should probably post an article on WarCom notifying people about this error they have been spouting for several weeks now.
I can't imagine being a new player excited to get into this game and ordering the Pariah Nexus set and opening it to find that I can't even play the game.
Chopstick wrote: Less for more, a GW's classic. Now also with false advertisement.
Seems like video game companies are now being sued for false advertisement. Bethesda, CD Projekt Red I believe. If GW goes down this route, I believe they can have a class action law suite as well, if a company wants to go for it.
So not sure if GW will address this quickly or not. It seems GW reacts fast when it comes to lawyers, so time will tell if GW goes the false advertisement route. After 2020, things have changed in industries where we never thought can happen is happening now.
Crimson wrote: So can anyone figure out what the difference between various heavy intercessor guns is supposed to be?
Box magazines, drum magazines, exotic shape in between magazines? That's my best guess.
Crimson wrote: GW has not bothered to show the variants assembled, but looking at the sprue pics, I can just see a bunch of nigh identical ammo boxes. They will be even harder to tell apart than normal intercessor or hellblaster weapons.
Probably? There's only so many variations of the same gun GW can do before the differences become marginal and hard to tell apart.
Intercessors and hellblasters already soared past that point. Someone assembling them can obviously work through the differences, but someone on the other side of a table is often just going to ask.
If, when Codex SM gets redone again, GW condenses bolt weapon variation down to the point that their Ranged Weapons table is down to 3 pages rather than 4 and a half pages, I'll throw them a little party.
It's particularly galling since basic bolters have had tons of variations of scopes magazines and clips (and also basic frames, furniture and stocks) over the years, so using that as excuse for different profiles is absolutely nonsensical.
Intercessors and hellblasters already soared past that point. Someone assembling them can obviously work through the differences, but someone on the other side of a table is often just going to ask.
If, when Codex SM gets redone again, GW condenses bolt weapon variation down to the point that their Ranged Weapons table is down to 3 pages rather than 4 and a half pages, I'll throw them a little party.
It's particularly galling since basic bolters have had tons of variations of scopes magazines and clips (and also basic frames, furniture and stocks) over the years, so using that as excuse for different profiles is absolutely nonsensical.
Oh yes, I fully agree, I wish they would condense them. Having different variants made slightly more sense at the beginning, when there were very few differnt primaris units, but now than there are loads of them, with bolt, carbines, bolt rifles, heavy bolts rifles, etc, it is bizarre to have such detailed differentiation.
GW's pushing to see how much they can get away with in pricing (and probably get some new executive contracts). So we've got false claims about rules in Pariah Nexus, false pictures showing you content you don't get in the Killzones... and absurd prices on all of them.
People don't like to hear this, but as far as GW is concerned, expansions to existing, successful lines are pure pay-pig territory. This is why Warcry Catacombs shocked people, a little less content but costing 40 more dollars, it's because it's a big box expansion for Warcry. They already cleared out every GW customer who doesn't like low value with the $170 core box. From there you just pump it as far as you can go.
Kill Team customers who don't want to spend a lot of money for poor value products are already playing the game with models they own, and probably have owned for years and years. So there's no point in selling anything to them now. They've already got terrain, or if they didn't they just went and bought $200 worth of MDF terrain which is enough to cover and 8' x 4' board. Same thing with Primaris Marines, the majority of low-impulse buyers went, "I've already got marines, thanks," it's the people who are prepared to pay whatever they can afford for any level of value that are left over for GW to sell to. Everybody else stocked up on Dark Imperium or Indomitus sets if they wanted any, and then walked away from the table.
We'll see how post-COVID profit losses change things, but right now GW is a company that sells high priced intro box sets for "everybody", followed up by absurdly priced boxed sets for people who can stomach it.
And it's nutty, because surely the whole point of Kill Team is it's the gateway game to get people in to the ecosystem so you can start selling them the big stuff?
Billicus wrote: And it's nutty, because surely the whole point of Kill Team is it's the gateway game to get people in to the ecosystem so you can start selling them the big stuff
no, gateway is 40k Patrol & Crusade
KT is there to keep people inside the GW eco-system who have enough from 40k but still want to play with those models and prevent them from wandering off (so they might return when the new Codex for their faction hits the shelf)
or don't want to spend several hundreds to get a full 40k army and still feel they get away with a budget buy paying the KT prices for the boxes (which is kind of true as spending 300 for KT is still less than the 1000 a new Guard Army will cost)
Not really. I've got a friend who loves the lore and wants to get models to try for kill team. It does appeal to people who don't want to spend a ton of money or devote too much time into playing 40k officially
feth me, the difference between gun profiles for the new Space Marines™ New Bigger™ Big Marines™ is the magazine you model on them? Like, we were already pushing the point of ridiculous with all the different Big Marines™ bolter profiles, but like, come on...
Intercessors and hellblasters already soared past that point. Someone assembling them can obviously work through the differences, but someone on the other side of a table is often just going to ask.
Hellblasters weapons are really easy to tell, one connected to a huge backpack, and one didn't. Different mag type might require a double check, but huge backpack and big cable and you can't tell them apart? that's a bit over-exaggerate
Billicus wrote: And it's nutty, because surely the whole point of Kill Team is it's the gateway game to get people in to the ecosystem so you can start selling them the big stuff?
You can actually get into Kill Team quite affordably. Just buy the epub rulebook and get a few second hand minis for your team members. You will need to spend a bit of time and effort, but you can get started on the low-low if you're so inclined.
But seems like GW did indeed mess up this release by misadvertising it as "everything you need to get started with Kill Team". They probably realize this themselves as well, which is why the first link on their webpage points to the old KT boxed set
What pisses me off is that neither of these new books seems to be available as digital downloads.. What the actual F GW!
Hellblasters weapons are really easy to tell, one connect to a huge backpack, and one didn't.
Helblasters have three weapons.
Oh yeah, and the one with no cable but have the targeting array, that'd warrant check but you don't need to look closely to see if the gun have a huge bulge on top of it, unlike different mag type.
GaroRobe wrote: Not really. I've got a friend who loves the lore and wants to get models to try for kill team. It does appeal to people who don't want to spend a ton of money or devote too much time into playing 40k officially
just because there are people using it as entry game does not change that
GW wants people to start by playing 40k in Patrol size and the Crusade rules
therefore they provide the Patrol boxes which give a decent discount and let you start small and KT is not really cheaper here
OK, but 9th edition with patrol and crusade has only been out for a few months, it's reasonable enough to think of Kill Team as the gateway game. I'm sure that was at least partly the intention until recently.
edited to add hah, yeah, Chopstick's found the pretty clear statement of intent there
Wow, these prices for Killzones with cut contents really are absurd. I was going to grab at least the Fronteris but now I'm getting nothing, even if it's still the best of the batch. Add on top that thanks to logistical issues it would take at least a month to get to me and I'm pretty unhappy with them now - enough that I'll be sending them a polite, yet cranky, email.
So the Killzones are $100 US, up from $80, and with less product. Fine, 3d party MDF. This looks kinda like Sector Fronteris, but is only $45 US. https://deathraydesigns.com/product/killing-grounds-the-depot/ Or I may go with their New Ceres line which is more cyberpunk. https://deathraydesigns.com/product/sushi-shack-bundle/ Or both; I'd thought the Sector Fronteris re-release might have been $90 and budgeted accordingly, so I could get both MDF sets and the sushi shack would be the bright spot in a sci-fi working class neighborhood.
GW no longer has enough value for my gaming budget.
No One Important wrote: Wow, these prices for Killzones with cut contents really are absurd.
Ditto. I love how multipart eradicators/eliminators/bladeguard look, and would buy 15 of each easily, but ridiculously stupid, character-like prices did wonders to my self restraint and I grabbed big fat total of zero. If I want to field any in the future, I'll just buy vanguard start collecting box for cheap bodies and convert my own. Bravo GW.
I wish ETB aggressors were still a thing, I'd convert heavy intercessors, captain, and eradicators out of them, alas
posermcbogus wrote: feth me, the difference between gun profiles for the new Space Marines™ New Bigger™ Big Marines™ is the magazine you model on them? Like, we were already pushing the point of ridiculous with all the different Big Marines™ bolter profiles, but like, come on...
Or you can stop looking at fake lists made by trolls to rile up people who never check for themselves about primaris, and actually look, then you'd realize most of the ""bloat"" is due to squatmarines and exists purely for fluff/flavor reasons. GW could say reduce bolter/boltgun/twin bolter/combi bolter/storm bolter/hurricane bolter/[insert 5 other names] to a single profile (they all are literally identical S4 AP- Rapid Fire guns) and just give the platforms that have linked ones rule to fire it X times, but then you'd have complains in other direction - that storm bolter is totally not the same as combi-bolter and army X with guns dating to Horus Heresy is absolutely not going to use 'wrong' profile, cue threats to quit/burn army/whine on forums/etc.
Compared to this, primaris guns are all limited in amount, have distinct, very different roles, can be differentiated at a glance, and are overall vastly better both game and model design.
Ancestral Hamster wrote: So the Killzones are $100 US, up from $80, and with less product. Fine, 3d party MDF. This looks kinda like Sector Fronteris, but is only $45 US. https://deathraydesigns.com/product/killing-grounds-the-depot/ Or I may go with their New Ceres line which is more cyberpunk. https://deathraydesigns.com/product/sushi-shack-bundle/ Or both; I'd thought the Sector Fronteris re-release might have been $90 and budgeted accordingly, so I could get both MDF sets and the sushi shack would be the bright spot in a sci-fi working class neighborhood.
even going with HIPS, looks like Mantic sets are now offering double the terrain for 60 that GW has for 100
Pegasus sets now also look very attractive compared to those
even some resin terrain is now cheaper than GWs plastic
posermcbogus wrote: feth me, the difference between gun profiles for the new Space Marines™ New Bigger™ Big Marines™ is the magazine you model on them? Like, we were already pushing the point of ridiculous with all the different Big Marines™ bolter profiles, but like, come on...
At least it's marginally less ridiculous than Deathwatch twin boltguns being a distinct weapon for the benefit of the one solitary model which has shot selectors modeled on his bike.
Ancestral Hamster wrote: So the Killzones are $100 US, up from $80, and with less product. Fine, 3d party MDF. This looks kinda like Sector Fronteris, but is only $45 US. https://deathraydesigns.com/product/killing-grounds-the-depot/ Or I may go with their New Ceres line which is more cyberpunk. https://deathraydesigns.com/product/sushi-shack-bundle/ Or both; I'd thought the Sector Fronteris re-release might have been $90 and budgeted accordingly, so I could get both MDF sets and the sushi shack would be the bright spot in a sci-fi working class neighborhood.
GW no longer has enough value for my gaming budget.
I just happened to go looking at a discussion about getting started with Kill Team and TTCombat makes some incredible stuff. At least incredible looking stuff.
Or you can stop looking at fake lists made by trolls to rile up people who never check for themselves about primaris, and actually look, then you'd realize most of the ""bloat"" is due to squatmarines and exists purely for fluff/flavor reasons. GW could say reduce bolter/boltgun/twin bolter/combi bolter/storm bolter/hurricane bolter/[insert 5 other names] to a single profile (they all are literally identical S4 AP- Rapid Fire guns) and just give the platforms that have linked ones rule to fire it X times, but then you'd have complains in other direction - that storm bolter is totally not the same as combi-bolter and army X with guns dating to Horus Heresy is absolutely not going to use 'wrong' profile, cue threats to quit/burn army/whine on forums/etc.
Compared to this, primaris guns are all limited in amount, have distinct, very different roles, can be differentiated at a glance, and are overall vastly better both game and model design.
Hoo boy... I think you maybe need to cool out, friend. That's a whole lot of salt and projection for a throwaway comment about how distinguishing these minis' loadout on the tabletop might be a bit tricky.
IDK if you just really hope Geedubs is gonna notice how frantically you're whiteknighting RN, and finally call you back for a second interview, or if you work for GW and designed these, and you're feeling mad that no-one's gonna buy this dreadful boxset, but like, maybe just relax a little my guy. I'm really sorry saying Big Marines™ upset you so much.
posermcbogus wrote: feth me, the difference between gun profiles for the new Space Marines™ New Bigger™ Big Marines™ is the magazine you model on them? Like, we were already pushing the point of ridiculous with all the different Big Marines™ bolter profiles, but like, come on...
Or you can stop looking at fake lists made by trolls to rile up people who never check for themselves about primaris, and actually look, then you'd realize most of the ""bloat"" is due to squatmarines and exists purely for fluff/flavor reasons.
Is that a fact, Irbis? Given poser's point was regarding bolt weaponry, let's look at the four and a half pages of ranged weapons in the current SM 'dex, using the definition of "Bolt" weapon provided on the page before it...
Spoiler:
Proper Marine Bolt Pistol
Boltgun
Combi-bolter
Combi-flamer
Combi-grav
Combi-melta
Combi-plasma
Heavy bolter
Hurricane bolter
Master-crafted boltgun
Special issue boltgun
Storm bolter
Twin boltgun
Twin heavy bolter
Steroid Boys Absolver Bolt Pistol
Assault Bolter
Auto Boltstorm Gauntlet
Auto Bolt Rifle
Bolt Carbine
Bolt Rifle
Bolt Sniper Rifle
Boltstorm gauntlet
Executor Bolt Rifle
Executor heavy bolter
Forge bolter
Hammerfall heavy bolter array
Heavy bolt pistol
Heavy bolt rifle
Hellstorm bolt rifle
Hellstorm heavy bolter
Instigator bolt carbine
Marksman bolt carbine
Master-crafted auto bolt rifle
Master-crafted heavy bolt rifle
Master-crafted instigator bolt carbine
Master-crafted occulus bolt carbine
Master-crafted special issue bolt pistol
Master-crafted stalker bolt rifle
Occulus bolt carbine
Special issue bolt carbine
Special issue bolt pistol
Stalker bolt rifle
Tempest bolter
Twin auto bolt rifle
Twin bolt rifle
Proper Marines: 14 Bolt Weapons (and that's being generous by counting the four combi-weapons as individual entries)
Steroid Boys: 31 Bolt Weapons
Care to try again?
Irbis wrote: GW could say reduce bolter/boltgun/twin bolter/combi bolter/storm bolter/hurricane bolter/[insert 5 other names] to a single profile (they all are literally identical S4 AP- Rapid Fire guns) and just give the platforms that have linked ones rule to fire it X times, but then you'd have complains in other direction - that storm bolter is totally not the same as combi-bolter and army X with guns dating to Horus Heresy is absolutely not going to use 'wrong' profile, cue threats to quit/burn army/whine on forums/etc.
Bolter and boltgun are the same weapon, under different names, that don't have distinct profiles.
Combi-bolter, storm bolter and twin bolter do share the same profile, and could theoretically be merged - but, as we can see above, they're hardly a reason for worrying that much about weapon bloat.
Hurricane bolter makes sense as its own profile, given the higher firing rate - is cleaner to reference the profile that way than require profile and unit special rule to cover it.
@Kodos and Frankelee: Thanks for the links/heads-up. Since I'll get Stargrave when it releases in April, I'll be looking at more general purpose sci-fi. Also, I'd like to make some buildings appropriate for Firefly-type setting. Both Death Ray Designs and TTCombat have stuff that would work for that.
No One Important wrote: Wow, these prices for Killzones with cut contents really are absurd. I was going to grab at least the Fronteris but now I'm getting nothing, even if it's still the best of the batch. Add on top that thanks to logistical issues it would take at least a month to get to me and I'm pretty unhappy with them now - enough that I'll be sending them a polite, yet cranky, email.
I know people have mentioned the contents of the terrain sets already, but this is worth highlighting. Both the Sunday preview and Saturday pre-order articles show the contents from the last time sets were released under these names, with £90+ worth of terrain:
Spoiler:
But when you check the GW shop, the munitorum set is actually £57.50 worth for terrain plus the small game board for £60.
The Mechanicus one is similar, although those pipes are no longer available separately. Effectively only the game board is 'free'.
Spoiler:
Not all 3rd-party sites include pictures and/or product descriptions, so beware if you've ordered from one after only seeing these articles and are much better value. Instead they're effectively just old-style 'one-click' web bundles using the same name of a product that used to be sold with a decent discount.
I caved and bought a box as I wanted the heavy intercessors and captain.
I bought it at a discount with free shipping for £76, and have justified the cost by listing elements on eBay/fb for a reasonable cost.
Namely, if I can get back at least £35 to make my total outlay for the above at £40 or below, then I will have got a deal with the inevitable price of the box and character going to be pushing £60, £50ish with discount when they're sold separately, but also I'm not ripping anyone off.
Chronomancer and Flayed ones are already sold, just got the terrain, board and rules to get rid of. If anyone wants them, send me a pm.
And that's why any talk of "boycotting" GW price increases is pipe dream. They could charge $100 for 5 marines and people will be able to "justify" it.
Billicus wrote: OK, but 9th edition with patrol and crusade has only been out for a few months, it's reasonable enough to think of Kill Team as the gateway game. I'm sure that was at least partly the intention until recently.
edited to add hah, yeah, Chopstick's found the pretty clear statement of intent there
Anyone who thinks Kill Team was not supposed to be the entry level game is either lying or just not aware of the history of the game. When the original starter for the Kill Team game was released it was very much intended as a gateway drug that then got an interesting expansion in Rogue Trader and then provided with a tournament version in Kill Team Arena.
The current box basically fails at everything Kill Team originally set out to do and is probably just GW trying to milk out the Necron and SM kits. That it doesn't have the full rulebook is even weirder as the book isn't hardcover and should be rather easy to print and chuck into a box.
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JWBS wrote: It's been noted that they're using the pictures of old killzones and the new killzones contain a lot less stuff.
So UK doesn't have consumer protection or did that go away when they left the EU? That's more or less lying to the consumer if true.
JWBS wrote: It's been noted that they're using the pictures of old killzones and the new killzones contain a lot less stuff.
So UK doesn't have consumer protection or did that go away when they left the EU? That's more or less lying to the consumer if true.
No. There's no consumer protection in the UK. There's no law at all in fact - the UK relied on the EU for its entire legal code. There's no lamp posts and no horses, and we also don't have the colour purple in the UK.
I know people have mentioned the contents of the terrain sets already, but this is worth highlighting. Both the Sunday preview and Saturday pre-order articles show the contents from the last time sets were released under these names, with £90+ worth of terrain:
Not all 3rd-party sites include pictures and/or product descriptions, so beware if you've ordered from one after only seeing these articles and are much better value. Instead they're effectively just old-style 'one-click' web bundles using the same name of a product that used to be sold with a decent discount.
I assume that, irrespective of what is shown in a preview, the important thing is that the webstore entry is correct when it comes to buying.
Remember, products always seem to have a lot of disclaimer blurb about how contents may change, colours may vary and/ or price may increase and all that sort of 'get out of jail free' nonsense.
Plus, if the consumer is not happy:
If for any reason at all, you're not satisfied with your purchase, you can return it to us for a refund, or exchange it for something else. No quibbles and no funny handshakes required. All we ask is the product still be in its original packaging and you have your proof of purchase and we'll be happy to help.
Just call our Customer Service team on 0115 91 40000 or email them at uk.custserv@gwplc.com, they will take care of this for you as quickly and simply as possible.
JWBS wrote: It's been noted that they're using the pictures of old killzones and the new killzones contain a lot less stuff.
So UK doesn't have consumer protection or did that go away when they left the EU? That's more or less lying to the consumer if true.
No. There's no consumer protection in the UK. There's no law at all in fact - the UK relied on the EU for its entire legal code. There's no lamp posts and no horses, and we also don't have the colour purple in the UK.
Cronch wrote: And that's why any talk of "boycotting" GW price increases is pipe dream. They could charge $100 for 5 marines and people will be able to "justify" it.
True, but at some point they’ll start seeing a critical decline in the number of people willing / able to justify it, just like they were starting to see a few years ago, in the last days of Kirby, before they self-corrected. It takes a while though and at the moment there’s a lot of people indulging in “retail therapy” without caring too much about the cost.
posermcbogus wrote: feth me, the difference between gun profiles for the new Space Marines™ New Bigger™ Big Marines™ is the magazine you model on them? Like, we were already pushing the point of ridiculous with all the different Big Marines™ bolter profiles, but like, come on...
At least it's marginally less ridiculous than Deathwatch twin boltguns being a distinct weapon for the benefit of the one solitary model which has shot selectors modeled on his bike.
That comes down to GW being totally pants on head silly. Every time I look at the " Deathwatch twin boltguns " for one model, I die a bit inside. No player gives a flying fig if there isn't a modeled shot selector on the bolter. No one notices, no one cares.In a fight no one would be like " Wait a minute...that looks like there is no shot selector on it !! Reeeee !! "
Or you can stop looking at fake lists made by trolls to rile up people who never check for themselves about primaris, and actually look, then you'd realize most of the ""bloat"" is due to squatmarines and exists purely for fluff/flavor reasons. GW could say reduce bolter/boltgun/twin bolter/combi bolter/storm bolter/hurricane bolter/[insert 5 other names] to a single profile (they all are literally identical S4 AP- Rapid Fire guns) and just give the platforms that have linked ones rule to fire it X times, but then you'd have complains in other direction - that storm bolter is totally not the same as combi-bolter and army X with guns dating to Horus Heresy is absolutely not going to use 'wrong' profile, cue threats to quit/burn army/whine on forums/etc.
Compared to this, primaris guns are all limited in amount, have distinct, very different roles, can be differentiated at a glance, and are overall vastly better both game and model design.
Hoo boy... I think you maybe need to cool out, friend. That's a whole lot of salt and projection for a throwaway comment about how distinguishing these minis' loadout on the tabletop might be a bit tricky.
IDK if you just really hope Geedubs is gonna notice how frantically you're whiteknighting RN, and finally call you back for a second interview, or if you work for GW and designed these, and you're feeling mad that no-one's gonna buy this dreadful boxset, but like, maybe just relax a little my guy. I'm really sorry saying Big Marines™ upset you so much.
I can't believe you called them Big Marines, we all know they are in fact called Really Really Big Man Marines.
Because it will be outdated soon. It'd be great if GW made 9th ed core manual for KT before all of the codexes are out instead of drip feeding new rule in lame boxes after codexes release.
lord_blackfang wrote: The "Warhammer 40,000 Command Edition Battlefield Expansion Set" is a better and cheaper Kill Zone than any of the actual Kill Zones
Exactly what I did. Even better because you can find people on EBay selling it’s contents from the Command Edition box for 50 USD from time to time.
Chopstick wrote: Because it will be outdated soon. It'd be great if GW made 9th ed core manual for KT before all of the codexes are out instead of drip feeding new rule in lame boxes after codexes release.
Agreed, especially with BSF on its way out.
The thing about the 2019 annual is that it has the Sisters of Battle rules, so it seems unlikely that they wouldn't have them unavailable for too long? Not my cup of tea, but they seem very popular and well supported since the Psychic Awakening and 9th edition roll out.
The thing about the 2019 annual is that it has the Sisters of Battle rules, so it seems unlikely that they wouldn't have them unavailable for too long? Not my cup of tea, but they seem very popular and well supported since the Psychic Awakening and 9th edition roll out.
The Sister is a low effort faction with 0 order trait (sub-faction trait), missing important units, very few choice for tactic The faction's specialty is their act of faith and sacred rites abilities and they can't do any of that in the game.
Chopstick wrote: Because it will be outdated soon. It'd be great if GW made 9th ed core manual for KT before all of the codexes are out instead of drip feeding new rule in lame boxes after codexes release.
Well, they did hint at "big things" coming soon for KT.. The Pariah Nexus box is probably just a little something to get by with until the bigger release drops
Yes, it was basically beta rules from White Dwarf although I don't know if they bothered to revise them in any way for the annual.
Popular and supported as in 40K. The faction seems to be getting new units regularly( did they really need the Nun-suit? ), while they seem to be a favourite since their relaunch at the end of 8th edition.
SamusDrake wrote: Yes, it was basically beta rules from White Dwarf although I don't know if they bothered to revise them in any way for the annual.
Popular and supported as in 40K. The faction seems to be getting new units regularly( did they really need the Nun-suit? ), while they seem to be a favourite since their relaunch at the end of 8th edition.
I for one love the Nundam suit, and that model alone might get me started on a small SoB fprce.
Err, have a look at Pariah Nexus, the only winner for Necron in this edition is Deathmark with BS2+ and a better sniper weapon. Both Deathmark and Immortal got a +1 pts hike and +1 Toughness.
Immortal have 1W and cost the same as the new Bigger marine at 3W.
Bigger marine executor rifle is also 42", a whooping 12" longer than and way better than Immortal's puny Gauss guns.
Lychguard and Triarch Praetorian also have a +2 pts hike with the only buff is the Triarch Praetorian rod of covenants. I guess the 5 Lychguard team is too OP in 8th. That's some garbage change for Necron.
But seriously, the other winner is the gauss reaper option for the warrior as its good to have a stronger option for short range shoot outs.
Lol no, this is killteam, shooting at longer than half range will result in -1 to hit. At a 12" range you'll be eating bullets for 2,3 turns before getting within range, in that case, you'll have ork-tier accuracy.
Also cheap horde unit like Flayed one coming out in box of 5, for 50-60USD, lol.
That rule is game wide which causes headaches for everyone and the necron warrior does have a starting ballistic skill of 3+, which gives them more room for hit modification than most other factions.
And yes, Flayed Ones. Probably aimed at stock traders with an affordable price tag of £37.50.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Warhammer Community have confirmed Heavy Intercessors and Flayed Ones getting a proper release in May.
Yet no word as on when the new HQ's will be available separately. Cheeky buss tards arent they
I'll hopefully get my HI's and the Captain tomorrow. Will be interesting to see the new rules too.
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SamusDrake wrote: That rule is game wide which causes headaches for everyone and the necron warrior does have a starting ballistic skill of 3+, which gives them more room for hit modification than most other factions.
And yes, Flayed Ones. Probably aimed at stock traders with an affordable price tag of £37.50.
I'm not so sure about that. In our games of KillTeam, hit modifiers of -2 seem to be prevalent (shooting at an obscured target at more than half range). This makes even 3+ unreliable at best, so many firefights boil down to having enough dice or catching a model at an exposed position by flanking etc. But then again, this is one of the reasons I love KT, you cant just blast your way to victory without thinking about tactical positioning, unlike regular 40K, where stuff like positioning affects the outcome of the battle in other ways.
SamusDrake wrote: That rule is game wide which causes headaches for everyone and the necron warrior does have a starting ballistic skill of 3+, which gives them more room for hit modification than most other factions.
You doesn't seem to get it, if the weapon is double or even more than the range of a puny 12' guns, by the time you reach the distane to perform your orky shooting, people will be shooting at you at their optimal range, not to mention several turn of you eating bullets and doing nothing. Gauss reaper is a rather pointless weapons. You'd still be spamming Gauss Flayers for 99% of the time.
TL;DR Short range weapons suck, unless it's a flamers that can melt big guys in a single turn.
I'm not so sure about that. In our games of KillTeam, hit modifiers of -2 seem to be prevalent (shooting at an obscured target at more than half range). This makes even 3+ unreliable at best, so many firefights boil down to having enough dice or catching a model at an exposed position by flanking etc
Not to dismiss what you are saying( its your experience of the game after all ) but once again, every model on the board is subject to hit modifiers. Even if attacking units do enjoy a longer range then they too have to pay the piper, which keeps things balanced. The only exception would be tactics and unit rules that ignore such modifiers.
Personally I find Kill Team to favour short range and melee due to smaller table sizes and reduced effectiveness to hit. For example, Banshees are a bit naff in 40K due to the distance they have to cover( especially without a transport ) but in KT they get down to business much sooner. If taking an all-firepower team it would have to be Tau, but otherwise I'd have to go for Tyranids as they are fast, numerous and lethal once they close in. Sometimes we've had no choice but to go for a larger board for Tyranids to keep things fair.
This is also not mentioning confined games such as Arena, Rogue Trader, BSF+WD and Pariah Nexus itself. Range definitely goes out of the window for those kind of games...especially if Tyranids are involved...
You doesn't seem to get it, if the weapon is double or even more than the range of a puny 12' guns, by the time you reach the distane to perform your orky shooting, people will be shooting at you at their optimal range, not to mention several turn of you eating bullets and doing nothing. Gauss reaper is a rather pointless weapons. You'd still be spamming Gauss Flayers for 99% of the time.
TL;DR Short range weapons suck, unless it's a flamers that can melt big guys in a single turn.
We've both put our points across and while I have indeed taken onboard what you are saying, I feel that my point is not being taken onboard in return. From here on out we'll only end up going round in circles trying to brow beat each other, which neither of us really wishes to do.
And if you don't mind Chopstick, I shall leave it there.
I got my half of the models today and am just skimming through the new book.
Close Confine rules seem quite cool at first glance. We will definitely be adding these tactics to our close confines games
Some tidbits in case you're wondering: Close confines remove the -1 penalty for shooting at long range, removes scouting phase and reinfocements, adds three (!) new overwatching methods via new tactics, includes a tactic for "squeezing" through models in the movement phase.. this is not all of it but it all makes the new missions play a lot differently no doubt!
Looking forward to our next games with some Zone Mortalis terrain!
I'm not so sure about that. In our games of KillTeam, hit modifiers of -2 seem to be prevalent (shooting at an obscured target at more than half range). This makes even 3+ unreliable at best, so many firefights boil down to having enough dice or catching a model at an exposed position by flanking etc
Not to dismiss what you are saying( its your experience of the game after all ) but once again, every model on the board is subject to hit modifiers. Even if attacking units do enjoy a longer range then they too have to pay the piper, which keeps things balanced. The only exception would be tactics and unit rules that ignore such modifiers.
Personally I find Kill Team to favour short range and melee due to smaller table sizes and reduced effectiveness to hit. For example, Banshees are a bit naff in 40K due to the distance they have to cover( especially without a transport ) but in KT they get down to business much sooner. If taking an all-firepower team it would have to be Tau, but otherwise I'd have to go for Tyranids as they are fast, numerous and lethal once they close in. Sometimes we've had no choice but to go for a larger board for Tyranids to keep things fair.
This is also not mentioning confined games such as Arena, Rogue Trader, BSF+WD and Pariah Nexus itself. Range definitely goes out of the window for those kind of games...especially if Tyranids are involved...
We always play on a 4x4.. I dont fancy the recommended Kill Team table size. Movement and rnges become much more meaningful/interesting at 4x4 IMHO. You just need loads of terrain to prevent snipers from dominating things.
We always play on a 4x4.. I dont fancy the recommended Kill Team table size. Movement and rnges become much more meaningful/interesting at 4x4 IMHO. You just need loads of terrain to prevent snipers from dominating things.
Thats quite a big board for Kill Team. Only 2 players?
We always play on a 4x4.. I dont fancy the recommended Kill Team table size. Movement and rnges become much more meaningful/interesting at 4x4 IMHO. You just need loads of terrain to prevent snipers from dominating things.
Thats quite a big board for Kill Team. Only 2 players?
Yes. Now 4x4 has always been for "normal" games, I'm thinking we are going to scale it down to at least 3x3' for Close Confines games, possibly more. Otherwise the game will just devolve to performing advance rolls in order to get into engagement positions in time, with all the corridors and whatnot.
I know its not common for people to play Kill Team on bigger boards but IMHO it works well. The Teams usually take one or two turns to get to engagement positions, but that leaves enough time for the game to play out IME. And long range shooters really cone to their own on the first turn with a 4x4, as they are usually the only models aside from infiltrators who will have eligble targets.
I strongly recommend people at least give it a try sometime
No longer available online, stuff has had that before and come back though right?
That, and possibly just because of coved issues. They are possible reasons.
A positive reason, maybe a new starter coming?
A negative option - maybe they’ll just do the rulebook separately and that’s it..
Couldn’t sit through the whole advertisement to see if anything regarding the changes to the rule set, which is the most significant aspect of this release. Models look great as usual but by far the most relevant aspect is how the core rules have changed.
Gregor Samsa wrote: Couldn’t sit through the whole advertisement to see if anything regarding the changes to the rule set, which is the most significant aspect of this release. Models look great as usual but by far the most relevant aspect is how the core rules have changed.
Rules were not discussed but will be articles on WarCom this week. They did show a close up of the Krieg stats and they have a wound value of 7 so wounds have moved more towards the Warcry model. Also, they are using a ruler with different ranges on it rather than take measure, again closer to Warcry.
Perhaps this will be the start of a Death Korps revamp to the Imperial Guard line now that Cadia has fallen. Or at least an alternate choice for IG players. GW did add new heads and weapons for the Cadians earlier this year, which suggests they plan to continue making them. Molds for injection plastic are very expensive, but once they are made they last nearly forever, and the raw material and energy usage is relatively inexpensive. So there is no logical economic reason to abandon new molds which likely have not made back their tooling cost yet.
As for the new Starter. My Deathwatch alter ego likes it. At last a starter where the Imperium takes the battle to the foul xenos on their home turf, instead of fighting defensively on Imperial planets! The hobbyist part has mixed feelings; want the new DKoK plastics, but absolutely hate the ork aesthetic since Rogue Trader days, and that has not changed. So most of the box I hate the look of and do not want. Well, I suppose the DKoK plastics and the Core book will be sold separately a month or so after the starter release. Same way the Indomitus plastics were exclusive to that box for a while. The final part of me is the part that controls the wallet, and who is not happy with GW's prices since the Warcry: Catacombs starter sold for $210 US and had about half the terrain of the previous starter which sold for $160. Depending on the prices, I may very well be done with Kill Team and any other GW product, regardless of how cool they look.
lord_blackfang wrote: I have no doubt the DKOK will be getting a full plastic 40k range in short order.
By full range, I could see a 3 pack of death riders and maybe a artillery piece. Possibly a rereleased of the wall of martyrs stuff.
Full range in this case obviously means "as much as Cadians have" so basically two more sprues besides this one, Command and Weapons Team. Anything beyond that is a bonus.
lord_blackfang wrote: I have no doubt the DKOK will be getting a full plastic 40k range in short order.
By full range, I could see a 3 pack of death riders and maybe a artillery piece. Possibly a rereleased of the wall of martyrs stuff.
Full range in this case obviously means "as much as Cadians have" so basically two more sprues besides this one, Command and Weapons Team. Anything beyond that is a bonus.
The small sprue might be the equivalent of a command sprue?
The Cadians got an extra sprue to boost diversity, DKOK don't really need that, so the extra sprue they got could just be the equivalent of the command one.
A nice range of heavy weapon options and some riders would be great, but honestly if the price isn't insane I'll probably just get 50 of the base dudes to build an army around.
If the factions page on the website is any indication, no rules for covens/wracks. GW takes one step forward and simultaneously another step back. So dark eldar only get two types once again, warriors and wyches....just wonderful. Just you wait though, there'll be another book right around the corner with rules for incubi and mandrakes.
)...
, I knew it was justified somehow
about 3rd parties that provide accessories to their games.
