minor point, but i've just noticded the space mods are literally CALLED mods in star wars as well, in this case a contraction of "modification". Its also clearly a youth subculture of sorts, the tech-priest (im too 40k to call him anything else) is rather suprised that anyone as old as boda was intrested/aware of his services.
i get the feeling the accents must be an affection by the mods, they are deliberately trying to sound Coruscanti (as it has been established in EU lore that the RP "imperial" accent is the accent of the throneworld, or at least parts of it). the rest of the "urban street gang" trappings make more sense if you view it though the lens of a bunch of backwater kids posing, trying desperately to be all big-city cool and stuff (we all know the type, the ones with the tricked out banger for a car and are trying to look like their cruising Mayfair/Venice beach, not some podunk farmers village in Dorset/Idaho (delete cultural references as appropriate)).
yhea, the timeline is a little screwy, its not clear how long he was "Under", and even less clear how long the events of the flashbacks took, but a timescale of months seems about right, but the man that Djinn got fetts armour off seemed to have it for quite a lot long than that, (given the spread of rumours of him in it).
I took it that he was doing his dances with banthas lifestyle change for almost all of the "years" he referred to. He'd have died of dehydration in just a few days in the desert even in the moist sarlacc pit.
Not a fan of this episode but better than the last which wasn't hard to do. The Boba Hill tiny droid slapstick chase and "look we can be cyberpunk too!" scenes were gratuitous padding that I think detract from the episode overall. Still, seeing him get both the Slave I and his revenge was nice. I'm also liking Fennec and Krrsantan as characters.
All in all, I think this show would have been better as a two hour made for streaming movie that showed his post-sarlacc character progression instead of a nonlinear series with flashbacks. They should have left the post-Bib Fortuna coup stuff for a follow-up.
Really liked this episode. One advantage of Boba being a bit... ineffective at times is that it allows Fennec to show how badass she is.
I'm guessing that Boba was only in the Sarlacc for a few days - there's no chance that something as tasty and lootable as a crashed sail barge is going to have sat undisturbed by Jawas for longer than that, nearby carnivorous plant or no.
By that logic he must have been with the Sand People for years which... also doesn't make much sense. So. Whatever. We're in Star Wars Time.
The Mods seem interesting - Boba Knows what a Mod parlour is, and one way or another he's been out of the loop for years. So presumably it's a galaxy wide teenage fashion, which may only just have reached Tattoine.
Sure, it's not much like how Luke grew up - but consider what he and his pals seemed to be up to. Driving speeders, racing down Beggars Canyon in their modified skyhoppers - it's very American Graffiti, early '60s.
On the other side of the Atlantic, the Mods were in full swing with suits and mopeds.
Makes a bit of sense for a trend to take a decade to make it to a planet that's "Furthest from the bright centre of the universe"
Really liked this episode. One advantage of Boba being a bit... ineffective at times is that it allows Fennec to show how badass she is.
I really liked the hard cut when he couldn't duck enough to get through the sewer entrance. It set the tone perfectly. He played Tom and Jerry, she killed pretty much everybody, neatly undercutting the worry of 'too many guards'
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Slave I over the Sarlaac pit honestly irritates me.
1- He crawled out _in his armor_. Its not going to be inside, even if he doesn't remember the Jawas.
2- How do thrusters work? Seriously... upside down? What?
3- Casual monster spelunking. Why?
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His deal with Fennec makes zero sense to me. He's talking a lot of crap, but his vague loyalty promise doesn't make him any less a boss and her any less likely to die from his decisions.
---
The Wookie's knuckle dusters 'are more feared than blasters.'
Really now? The ones that do no permanent damage to anyone, not even random mooks?
---
Anyway, glad the plot moved on and caught up, and found time for casual vengeance. He still seems pointlessly naive and idealistic, but at least it finally feels like its going somewhere.
[Still say its going to end in cursing sudden yet inevitable betrayal]
I think there is an implication he was with the sand people for years, maybe a few before he got his clothing, and a few more after, there may have been a time jump between his visit to the pykes and the massacre of the tuskens also.
However... One thing I don't think is established in star wars (official canon anyway) is what a year is. I doubt it's as long (or short) as one of our years year, that would make zero sense.
Most definitely reading too much into it, but I feel like Jennifer Beals (how is she 58?) Twilek casino/bar/whatever owner is a red herring. Was quick to get Boba his tribute and get him outside for the ninja's. The Huts showed up when Boba went there and potentially getting him killed in a standoff, and she's awfully fearless in the face of a rampaging Wookie, being well informed of his history and all. Granted, she probably has to deal with all sorts of crazy gak in a sci-fi house of vice and knows how to push the correct buttons.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: I think there is an implication he was with the sand people for years, maybe a few before he got his clothing, and a few more after, there may have been a time jump between his visit to the pykes and the massacre of the tuskens also.
However... One thing I don't think is established in star wars (official canon anyway) is what a year is. I doubt it's as long (or short) as one of our years year, that would make zero sense.
I'm sure its buried somewhere. Some compromise based on the the length of Coruscant's year (as the capital) that's vaguely Earthlike so as not to throw off the audience.
So yeah. Exactly 365 days of 24 hours.
Its a cheap and easy cheat for fantasy and sci-fi, but there isn't much point on wasting audience buy-in trying to re-calculate time (even more so if you're going to make up BS names for your new system)
nels1031 wrote: Most definitely reading too much into it, but I feel like Jennifer Beals (how is she 58?) Twilek casino/bar/whatever owner is a red herring. Was quick to get Boba his tribute and get him outside for the ninja's. The Huts showed up when Boba went there and potentially getting him killed in a standoff, and she's awfully fearless in the face of a rampaging Wookie, being well informed of his history and all. Granted, she probably has to deal with all sorts of crazy gak in a sci-fi house of vice and knows how to push the correct buttons.
Like I said, probably reading too much into it.
It could go either way. She could be a power behind the throne or a potential/hidden-in-plain-sight boss herself, or just a capable 'madame' of an establishment. I hope they don't waste her, but who knows- they've burned every backstory element so far.
The last episode was nice wrap up for Boba in the past and his little intimidation show at the end was pretty nice, I was half expecting he would pull the inspiring "let's defend our home" speech to get others on his side. The sound cue at the end makes me think Fett is going to call in some Mandalorian help. I doubt we will see Din coming back though (I suspect that at that point, he's knee deep in Gideon and Mandalorian problems) it would be entirely possible. I actually suspect we will see the Armorer and what remains of her people. That could be in her line of work.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Mando takes place 5 years after ROTJ, right?
It seems Fett was out of the Sarlacc for maybe a few months as he spent time with the Tuskans.
So he was in that thing for years.
He was in it for days at most. The marshal from the Mandalorian got his armor days after the mercs crashed his End of Empire party, and the Battle of Endor was only a short time after Jabba's death.
He's lived most of those five years with the Tusken.
Also, who knows how long he had the Delirium Lizard in his head. He certainly didn't go to the nearest DIY store for his piece of wood.
Voss wrote: 2- How do thrusters work? Seriously... upside down? What?
A lot of stuff in Star Wars hovers that cannot be adequately explained with thrusters, from Mandalorian jetpack to Star Destroyers. I don't see how that is a problem in a setting with cheap and widely available repulsor tech.
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AduroT wrote: Whoever he brings in to help, it will be an assortment of characters we are already familiar with I’m sure.
I mean, that's a given, right? They wouldn't play that familiar tune at the end of that scene if he didn't.
to be fair, Boda Fett runs a extortion/protection racket, and just sat down with a bunch of drug dealers (or at least, people who make money form drug sales) to discuss all the ways they can skim even more money off the plebs, and is gearing up for a gang war with another gang over his territory, plus seems quite happy with torture, not to mention "general protagonist" murders, breaking and entering, train robbing, etc.
xerxeskingofking wrote: to be fair, Boda Fett runs a extortion.protection racket, and just sat down with a bunch of drug dealers (or at least, people who make money form drug sales) to discuss all the ways they can skim even more money off the plebs, and is gearing up for a gang war with another gang over his territory, plus seems quite happy with torture, not to mention general protagonist murders, breaking and entering, train robbing, etc.
Hes hardly a snow white pillar of moral purity.
Equally that could have been a council meeting in most countries on the earth... Heroes always get to break and enter, they have the 'higher calling' that excuses them from petty crime penalties, and the train was sold as attacking murderers as opposed to looting...
At the very least ordering the goons to go kill X and their family, or recording holo messages for droids to play declaring he is the Prince of Tatooine and can deposit a million credits in their account.
This is the first episode that really felt like it had a sense of itself. Can't help but feel like the series would have been stronger if they had put all the flashbacks in the first episode and cut about of an episode worth of futzing about in between.
Also not bombing the pit first was the dumbest thing I've seen in a while.
Voss wrote: 2- How do thrusters work? Seriously... upside down? What?
A lot of stuff in Star Wars hovers that cannot be adequately explained with thrusters, from Mandalorian jetpack to Star Destroyers. I don't see how that is a problem in a setting with cheap and widely available repulsor tech.
Because the thrusters are pictured pushing (down) and there is a complete lack of repulsors on the smooth cockpit dome? Its an incredibly stupid scene, even for this show (which has set a really low bar)
xerxeskingofking wrote:
to be fair, Boda Fett runs a extortion.protection racket, and just sat down with a bunch of drug dealers (or at least, people who make money form drug sales) to discuss all the ways they can skim even more money off the plebs,
Have you seen a future scene? Because none of that happens in the episode.
He specifically tells them he doesn't want money (or troops) from them, they don't owe him anything but respect and that peace is just inherently profitable.
It was actually very bizarre.
Voss wrote: 2- How do thrusters work? Seriously... upside down? What?
A lot of stuff in Star Wars hovers that cannot be adequately explained with thrusters, from Mandalorian jetpack to Star Destroyers. I don't see how that is a problem in a setting with cheap and widely available repulsor tech.
Because the thrusters are pictured pushing (down) and there is a complete lack of repulsors on the smooth cockpit dome? Its an incredibly stupid scene, even for this show (which has set a really low bar)
Not sure what to say to that. I never got the impression that Star Wars anti-grav technology made use of visible emitters, so the smooth cockpit dome doesn't get in the way of that as far as I'm aware.
The thrusters? Why do car drivers who are just sitting around and waiting keep the engine running? What does that achieve, other than burning fuel? And yet, people still do that because after minutes of waiting it'll save them seconds once they actually want to go anywhere. If the repulsor field can compensate for low output, I don't see why Boba wouldn't do that. Doesn't have to be the smartest thing to do, as long as it doesn't get in the way of keeping the ship up. And Star Wars isn't exactly hard sci-fi, so if the writers think the repulsor field can compensate, it will.
Have you seen a future scene? Because none of that happens in the episode.
He specifically tells them he doesn't want money (or troops) from them, they don't owe him anything but respect and that peace is just inherently profitable.
It was actually very bizarre.
He wants the title and nothing else, apparently.
what i saw was a reminder that they were not as well off now as under jabba, that the pykes were taking over and shifting the profits to themselves and taking it off world, and a pitch to join him for the common good (and wealth), to create a "defensive alliance until the pyke syndicate is vanquished" (exact quote, I just re-watched the scene), which they refused (saying it was a feud between boda and the pykes, and why should they bleed for his vendetta?), followed by him declaring he will do it alone (ie prove that hes strong enough and "worthy" of being followed) and requests them to stay neutral while he dealt with the common enemy (which they accepted).
He DOES wants more than the title, he is collecting tribute/protection money, after all. He's just trying to build his little empire on more than pure fear and intimidation, on the basis that if your underlings follow you only out of fear, they will turn on you the second they can to get out. Those gamoreans that saved him in ep1 could easily have bolted, given they were (inexplicably) some distance form him at the start of the attack, but they chose to go and save him. the mods are working for him because hes the only one offering them a job, a hope for something better than beating up water resellers to get drinking water. the bounty hunter who he could easily have killed is now his show muscle, etc, etc.
Voss wrote: 2- How do thrusters work? Seriously... upside down? What?
A lot of stuff in Star Wars hovers that cannot be adequately explained with thrusters, from Mandalorian jetpack to Star Destroyers. I don't see how that is a problem in a setting with cheap and widely available repulsor tech.
Because the thrusters are pictured pushing (down) and there is a complete lack of repulsors on the smooth cockpit dome? Its an incredibly stupid scene, even for this show (which has set a really low bar)
Not sure what to say to that. I never got the impression that Star Wars anti-grav technology made use of visible emitters, so the smooth cockpit dome doesn't get in the way of that as far as I'm aware.
The thrusters? Why do car drivers who are just sitting around and waiting keep the engine running? What does that achieve, other than burning fuel? And yet, people still do that because after minutes of waiting it'll save them seconds once they actually want to go anywhere. If the repulsor field can compensate for low output, I don't see why Boba wouldn't do that. Doesn't have to be the smartest thing to do, as long as it doesn't get in the way of keeping the ship up. And Star Wars isn't exactly hard sci-fi, so if the writers think the repulsor field can compensate, it will.
I guess that's the difference. I don't know anything about a 'repulsor field,' (beyond its presumably what's on the bottom of various speeder vehicles to make them hover) and I suspect the writers don't either. That seems like fan mind caulk for a plot hole, rather than anything that's actually been established. The thrusters on the underside of the ship make it go, and the weird paddles on the side give it some maneuverability (presumably). Everything else is physics as we understand it, so it looked like he was trying to ram the Sarlaac but was magically just hovering upside down instead, in defiance of.... well, pretty much everything.
If what you're positing works, every time Luke and company got his Land Speeder to go somewhere, the 'repulsor field' would have ejected them because its all the way around the vehicle. Instead of just on the bottom and the engines on the back push forward (and each can fire separately so it can turn).
Even more damning, the entire train heist in this show is instantly invalidated in the dumbest way possible. Hit the 'extend repulsor field' button and all boarders are immediately ejected.
Voss wrote: 2- How do thrusters work? Seriously... upside down? What?
A lot of stuff in Star Wars hovers that cannot be adequately explained with thrusters, from Mandalorian jetpack to Star Destroyers. I don't see how that is a problem in a setting with cheap and widely available repulsor tech.
Because the thrusters are pictured pushing (down) and there is a complete lack of repulsors on the smooth cockpit dome? Its an incredibly stupid scene, even for this show (which has set a really low bar)
Not sure what to say to that. I never got the impression that Star Wars anti-grav technology made use of visible emitters, so the smooth cockpit dome doesn't get in the way of that as far as I'm aware.
The thrusters? Why do car drivers who are just sitting around and waiting keep the engine running? What does that achieve, other than burning fuel? And yet, people still do that because after minutes of waiting it'll save them seconds once they actually want to go anywhere. If the repulsor field can compensate for low output, I don't see why Boba wouldn't do that. Doesn't have to be the smartest thing to do, as long as it doesn't get in the way of keeping the ship up. And Star Wars isn't exactly hard sci-fi, so if the writers think the repulsor field can compensate, it will.
I guess that's the difference. I don't know anything about a 'repulsor field,' (beyond its presumably what's on the bottom of various speeder vehicles to make them hover) and I suspect the writers don't either. That seems like fan mind caulk for a plot hole, rather than anything that's actually been established. The thrusters on the underside of the ship make it go, and the weird paddles on the side give it some maneuverability (presumably). Everything else is physics as we understand it, so it looked like he was trying to ram the Sarlaac but was magically just hovering upside down instead, in defiance of.... well, pretty much everything.
If what you're positing works, every time Luke and company got his Land Speeder to go somewhere, the 'repulsor field' would have ejected them because its all the way around the vehicle. Instead of just on the bottom and the engines on the back push forward (and each can fire separately so it can turn).
Even more damning, the entire train heist in this show is instantly invalidated in the dumbest way possible. Hit the 'extend repulsor field' button and all boarders are immediately ejected.
Nope. Starwars isn't Sci Fi. It's fantasy in space. None of it makes sense and none of it has to. Fire Mares can travel 1000 leagues in a day. How? How does that kind of speed or the fire not hurt everyone involved? How do the people of Krull hold fire, put it in water, then take fire from water, and never burn their hands? Cause fantasy.
SW tech never made sense. Nothing we see here is any weirder then anything we saw at any other point in SW.
Nope. Starwars isn't Sci Fi. It's fantasy in space. None of it makes sense and none of it has to. Fire Mares can travel 1000 leagues in a day. How? How does that kind of speed or the fire not hurt everyone involved? How do the people of Krull hold fire, put it in water, then take fire from water, and never burn their hands? Cause fantasy.
I have no idea what either of those are, but they sound awful. 'Fantasy in space' isn't an excuse for random crap that isn't consistent and doesn't make sense in universe. Its just different theming from sci-fi- which usually leans heavily on the 'fiction' part. 'Hard' sci-fi bores me, and honestly isn't usually any better. Its often worse because it fetishizes the tech, and doesn't deal with the people/characters, which is what I want to/can connect with. Sometimes, anyway. (both Anakin and Boba are dead, lifeless voids to me)
SW tech never made sense. Nothing we see here is any weirder then anything we saw at any other point in SW.
Yeah... I've complained about other stuff too in other films and shows, so that isn't a convincing argument for 'don't think or talk about it'
Lightsabers are pure nonsense too btw.
Sure. But they're consistent nonsense. Having a Space Melee Weapon with a strong theme doesn't bother me. Are they realistic? Nope. That isn't even in the same star system as the problem.
It actually annoyed me more when they started to make up magic space rocks that were specially resistant to them and other nonsense.
The problem I have with Geifer's approach to defending the show from criticism (which is kind of a 'why bother?' to me anyway), is that the manufactured reasons to make it sound OK actually cause more consistency problems than they solve.
Nope. Starwars isn't Sci Fi. It's fantasy in space. None of it makes sense and none of it has to. Fire Mares can travel 1000 leagues in a day. How? How does that kind of speed or the fire not hurt everyone involved? How do the people of Krull hold fire, put it in water, then take fire from water, and never burn their hands? Cause fantasy.
I have no idea what either of those are, but they sound awful. 'Fantasy in space' isn't an excuse for random crap that isn't consistent and doesn't make sense in universe. Its just different theming from sci-fi- which usually leans heavily on the 'fiction' part. 'Hard' sci-fi bores me, and honestly isn't usually any better. Its often worse because it fetishizes the tech, and doesn't deal with the people/characters, which is what I want to/can connect with. Sometimes, anyway. (both Anakin and Boba are dead, lifeless voids to me)
It's the movie Krull! It's pretty good!
I am not saying it's an excuse and you should let it go. I am saying SW has always been this bad. It just has.
SW tech never made sense. Nothing we see here is any weirder then anything we saw at any other point in SW.
Yeah... I've complained about other stuff too in other films and shows, so that isn't a convincing argument for 'don't think or talk about it'
I am not arguing don't talk about it. I am arguing this is par for the course of SW.
Lightsabers are pure nonsense too btw.
Sure. But they're consistent nonsense. Having a Space Melee Weapon with a strong theme doesn't bother me. Are they realistic? Nope. That isn't even in the same star system as the problem.
It actually annoyed me more when they started to make up magic space rocks that were specially resistant to them and other nonsense.
I wouldn't call it consistent. Lightsabers cut through everything with no resistance all the time. Until the prequels when you need to slowly melt through a door.
The problem I have with Geifer's approach to defending the show from criticism (which is kind of a 'why bother?' to me anyway), is that the manufactured reasons to make it sound OK actually cause more consistency problems than they solve.
Agreed. But as I said, I am not defending it. I am simply saying this is what it's always been. Bad.
Nope. Starwars isn't Sci Fi. It's fantasy in space. None of it makes sense and none of it has to. Fire Mares can travel 1000 leagues in a day. How? How does that kind of speed or the fire not hurt everyone involved? How do the people of Krull hold fire, put it in water, then take fire from water, and never burn their hands? Cause fantasy.
I have no idea what either of those are, but they sound awful. 'Fantasy in space' isn't an excuse for random crap that isn't consistent and doesn't make sense in universe. Its just different theming from sci-fi- which usually leans heavily on the 'fiction' part. 'Hard' sci-fi bores me, and honestly isn't usually any better. Its often worse because it fetishizes the tech, and doesn't deal with the people/characters, which is what I want to/can connect with. Sometimes, anyway. (both Anakin and Boba are dead, lifeless voids to me)
It's the movie Krull! It's pretty good!
Ah, yeah. Krull is fun. I thought you were giving specific star wars examples from comics or cartoons or whatever.
I guess I get the 'its always been bad argument,' but I've also hearing a lot about how wonderful this series is and how this and Mando and in particular Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni are saving us all from the horrors of the sequels and all that rot.
And then these things happen and... well. I don't feel 'saved.'
Though I do notice some of the incessant positivity vanished when the show summarily set its own 'rich, complex backstory' (and accompanying allegory) on fire.
Voss wrote: The problem I have with Geifer's approach to defending the show from criticism (which is kind of a 'why bother?' to me anyway), is that the manufactured reasons to make it sound OK actually cause more consistency problems than they solve.
I wouldn't call it "defending". My enjoyment of the show is not tied to your opinion of it. I don't need to defend the show, nor change your mind. As far as I'm concerned everyone is welcome to their opinion.
I just offer different takes where I have them since I'm getting the impression that you are looking at things in Star Wars in a very specific and set way, and expect things to mesh with the established setting in exactly that way or else it's bogus. I can appreciate consistency, too. I'm not happy to see it get tossed out either. My BS tolerance just isn't as low as yours and I don't mind accepting, let's call it simplistic logic, as an explanation.
Let's illustrate that with the scene we've been talking about. Go back to Rogue One and the Star Destroyer over Jedha City. It hovers over the city, parallel to the ground like a speeder. I'm assuming you're fine with this. Whereas you take exception to Slave One peeking down the hole. Simplistic logic that works for me:
Star Destroyers are rigidly constructed with decks having a set orientation and artificial gravity making the ship work much like a planetary installation. We've seen this. It therefore stands to reason that if the ship hovers over the ground, it will do so in a manner that aligns the artificial gravity field with the gravity field of the planet. Reasonable, right?
Slave One has been shown to park in a different orientation than it flies from its earliest appearance. In the prequels it's shown that you have to climb into the cockpit (seats) without the help of artificial gravity. In the Mandalorian it's shown that it has a gyrostabilized passenger compartment/cargo hold that, if I remember correctly, has artificial gravity and is aligned with the gravitational field of a planet when in atmosphere, no matter the direction the ship is actually flying. Unlike the Imperial brick, Slave One has been shown to turn and spin without the people inside falling over. I can accept that this means the ship can point down, or up, or sideways, as the pilot pleases without upsetting either the passengers or any mechanical features.
You may take issue with the ship pointing down at the Sarlacc, but I'd disagree with the idea that this is inconsistent with what has been shown of the ships workings so far. Therefore, for me, it works. Would that have been my choice? Probably not. But I don't see it as a breakdown of the show either.
It was a staged event to intimidate the criminal 'middle management' so a platform may have been arranged. Like Batman and Daredevil painting their symbols in petrol to set of fire later, we don't see the tedious behind the scenes work that must make up a protagonist's life.
Voss wrote: The problem I have with Geifer's approach to defending the show from criticism (which is kind of a 'why bother?' to me anyway), is that the manufactured reasons to make it sound OK actually cause more consistency problems than they solve.
. But I don't see it as a breakdown of the show either.
I don't see it as a breakdown of the show myself. Its just the continuation of a crap effort that keeps the show from being anything noteworthy.
But, yes. You're definitely defending. Four (more) paragraphs of rationalizing a single poor scene is something only a fan does to defend a show. Were either of us average viewers we'd just shrug it off as trivial.
At least the music's good, he said, damning with faint praise...
I'm actually finding the music a little distracting... because it's almost the music from the Mandalorian, but just not as good.
Which, honestly, is a fairly good description of this show in general, so far. I wanted to like this one, but it's just kind of meandering along with no real point or thought to it, and this version of Boba is about the least interesting of the various options they could have gone with.
I feel like having the first season just be about his time with the sand people and eventually organising the raid on the train would have been more interesting than the jumping back and forth, particularly since the 'now' part of the story is so dull.
Geifer wrote: What strange views you have. Discussion does not require partisanship.
You're absolutely right, it doesn't. But writing up with 500-100 words of technical in-universe explanation to mindcaulk a random plot hole does.
I suspect you're imbuing those paragraphs with a lot more effort than they actually took to write. But ultimately, the explanation is - It's Star Wars: anti-grav works, and has no visible cause.
That's not something new. We're pretty much never shown any visible source of the repulsor effect. It just happens.
I wouldn't call it consistent. Lightsabers cut through everything with no resistance all the time. Until the prequels when you need to slowly melt through a door. .
To be fair, some materials being at least slightly resistant to lightsabers was actually introduced in the EU before the prequels came along and canonised it. There's a scene in one of the earlier novels where Luke slides down a fortress wall with his lightsaber stuck into it, using the resistance from the rock to slow his descent. Fairly sure they also had lightsaber-resistant armour before the prequels, although Beskar™ came along later IIRC, probably when Karen Traviss started turning the Mandos into superheroes.
I wouldn't call it consistent. Lightsabers cut through everything with no resistance all the time. Until the prequels when you need to slowly melt through a door. .
To be fair, some materials being at least slightly resistant to lightsabers was actually introduced in the EU before the prequels came along and canonised it. There's a scene in one of the earlier novels where Luke slides down a fortress wall with his lightsaber stuck into it, using the resistance from the rock to slow his descent. Fairly sure they also had lightsaber-resistant armour before the prequels, although Beskar™ came along later IIRC, probably when Karen Traviss started turning the Mandos into superheroes.
To be fair, the EU was also a inconsistent mess with different authors and sometimes the same author having wildly different takes on everything and anything. So what one or some books had to say on the mater means exactly nothing.
I wasn't arguing that there was any consistency. just pointing out that lightsaber resistance predated the prequels.
Lucas himself has always gone with what looks good in the moment over what fits best with previous material. Internal consistency and 'canon' validity has always mattered far more to the fans than to the people making this stuff.
The Wookiee then given to Boba to do with as he please.
The Wookiee that was immediately given his freedom by Boba Fett, when he could have taken his life.
That….that Wookiee? Yeah?
Yep. Look, half the cast, including the title character, are comically inept. But one of the themes the show is flailing about trying to illustrate is the idea of ruling by respect in the Underworld, instead of fear (Jabba) or firepower (fish people). That's literally Boba's stated goal. If it _never_ pays off, what's the point?
I already think Fennec will betray him in the end, so they need something to give Boba some false sense of security that he's on the right path. Or even have it pay off!
Plus the Wookie's makeup and costume is soooo much better than most of the cast that they might as well use it. Its the one thing they've put effort in.
Definitely thought the 4th episode was the best one so far.
I have now gone from "will give one more episode a go" to actively looking forward to it.
I like that it has brought back some sense of fun (the 'rat catching' droid - I want one!) and you have to remember it is meant to be family entertainment, so Boba possibly can't be the horrible bad-ass that even Darth Vader is deferential to in the films.
I love the Ralph McQuarrie-like storyboard artwork at the end of each episode too.
Pacific wrote: I love the Ralph McQuarrie-like storyboard artwork at the end of each episode too.
Yeah, that's pretty cool and I liked those in the Mandalorian as well.
What's not so cool is when you see that the artist gave the scene and the questions that might arise from it some decent thought and it wasn't carried over to the actual scene. Not great seeing they had the right idea but didn't go with it.
Pacific wrote: Definitely thought the 4th episode was the best one so far.
I have now gone from "will give one more episode a go" to actively looking forward to it.
I like that it has brought back some sense of fun (the 'rat catching' droid - I want one!) and you have to remember it is meant to be family entertainment, so Boba possibly can't be the horrible bad-ass that even Darth Vader is deferential to in the films.
I love the Ralph McQuarrie-like storyboard artwork at the end of each episode too.
...says, about an episode in which Boba strafes to death a full biker gang with no chance of reprisal (that was actually the part I liked best, TBH XD).
“It's not wise to upset a Wookiee” “they pull people's arms from their sockets when they lose.”
The fun part is, he didn't lose and they weren't interacting with him in any way at all.
Its 100% a deep-dive fan service trivia thing about the antipathy between wookies and trandoshans that isn't in any of the films. Just that trandoshans are trophy hunters of other sapients, and particularly like wookies as victims (hence the pelt at the beginning of the show). To non-fans, he should just come off as a particularly random murderer.
Pacific wrote: I love the Ralph McQuarrie-like storyboard artwork at the end of each episode too.
Yeah, that's pretty cool and I liked those in the Mandalorian as well.
What's not so cool is when you see that the artist gave the scene and the questions that might arise from it some decent thought and it wasn't carried over to the actual scene. Not great seeing they had the right idea but didn't go with it.
yeah, the art for the scenes is legitimately great, consistently much better than what they filmed.
Voss wrote: the Wookie's makeup and costume is soooo much better than most of the cast that they might as well use it. Its the one thing they've put effort in.
The role of Black Krrsantan is played by Carey Jones, who worked on Alita: Battle Angel and Once Upon a Time... In Hollywood as Make-Up Department, others as makeup effects supervisor and many similar. That'll help with the look.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0427681/?ref_=tt_cl_i_8
“It's not wise to upset a Wookiee” “they pull people's arms from their sockets when they lose.”
The fun part is, he didn't lose and they weren't interacting with him in any way at all.
Its 100% a deep-dive fan service trivia thing about the antipathy between wookies and trandoshans that isn't in any of the films. Just that trandoshans are trophy hunters of other sapients, and particularly like wookies as victims (hence the pelt at the beginning of the show). To non-fans, he should just come off as a particularly random murderer.
And some fans are speculating that it's setting up Bossk's arrival.
Pacific wrote: Definitely thought the 4th episode was the best one so far.
I have now gone from "will give one more episode a go" to actively looking forward to it.
I like that it has brought back some sense of fun (the 'rat catching' droid - I want one!) and you have to remember it is meant to be family entertainment, so Boba possibly can't be the horrible bad-ass that even Darth Vader is deferential to in the films.
I love the Ralph McQuarrie-like storyboard artwork at the end of each episode too.
...says, about an episode in which Boba strafes to death a full biker gang with no chance of reprisal (that was actually the part I liked best, TBH XD).
Haha yes that is very true.. strafing vehicles with aircraft, all family-friendly entertainment!
“It's not wise to upset a Wookiee” “they pull people's arms from their sockets when they lose.”
The fun part is, he didn't lose and they weren't interacting with him in any way at all.
Its 100% a deep-dive fan service trivia thing about the antipathy between wookies and trandoshans that isn't in any of the films. Just that trandoshans are trophy hunters of other sapients, and particularly like wookies as victims (hence the pelt at the beginning of the show). To non-fans, he should just come off as a particularly random murderer.
And some fans are speculating that it's setting up Bossk's arrival.
Because...?
I mean, I gets its star wars street and all, but wookie+lizard maiming = a visit from that one specific guy that stood five feet away from Boba that one time and was never seen again seems... pointless.
You mean the officially unofficial erased EU past? Or are we doing a 'if you don't know, you're not a True Fan' test?
Because it would be faster to just explain what you're referencing.
Well, I watched the first one. Unimpressed. I liked all the movies (Rogue One the most), but this and the Mando seems a little light on plot or something. Mando kinda went nowhere like watching anime and i just was kind of thankful the first episode of BoBF ended. Not sure if i will continue watching... Which makes me think Im old and out of touch. Is it well received in this circle? Does it get better?
hotsauceman1 wrote: In the clone wars episode, Boba Fett gathered a group of bounty hunters to kill Mace Windu, all friends of Jango. and Bossk was a part of it.
They're also teamed up in another two episodes (the train job and prison stint).
I dunno man, they have like magic sets and stuff and who knows What they’re capable of anymore! Also I don’t really mean it literally but he IS quite shiny…
More seriously it’s weird because the ending implies we’re getting more of it next episode? Like he didn’t commit to helping until he finished his other business, which seems odd scheduling wise.
doktor_g wrote: Well, I watched the first one. Unimpressed. I liked all the movies (Rogue One the most), but this and the Mando seems a little light on plot or something. Mando kinda went nowhere like watching anime and i just was kind of thankful the first episode of BoBF ended. Not sure if i will continue watching... Which makes me think Im old and out of touch. Is it well received in this circle? Does it get better?
Whilst I liked Mando I think the anime comment is fair, a lot of it could have fitted into the 20-25mins run time of Clone Wars or Rebels and been way cheaper as a cartoon, only saw the first episode of Boba before my sub ran out and ditto with that and not re-upping till a binge worthy backlog has built up (this drip feed madness is mighty engrumping)
And now for something completely different...
ridiculous cult angst!
and... starfighter maintenance.
With a side of Jawa dating
And a long, long list of Words You Might 'Member.
"Hey everyone, its Mando!" Droids walk away. Yeah... that was my reaction too. Can we go back to the ringworld and that intriguing array of alien criminals? Because whatever that was looked like a _much_ more interesting story.
So I guess the reason to watch the Book of Boba Fett is because its the prequel to Season 3 of the Mandalorian. Or did they cancel that and decide, hey, we mistakenly ordered a 7 episode series that's about 4 episodes too long, lets just tie up some stray plotlines here?
It's odd but my favorite episode of Boba Fett is the filler setup one with almost no action that he doesn't even show up in. I enjoyed almost all of this one other than the Xwing cops scene.
warboss wrote: It's odd but my favorite episode of Boba Fett is the filler setup one with almost no action that he doesn't even show up in. I enjoyed almost all of this one other than the Xwing cops scene.
That's there for the future team-up special* when Mando, Fennec, Asokha and Bo-Katan team up with the New Republic to track down the escaped Moff Gideon after everybody gets their spin-off shows so they can set up the next seasons of the various shows.
It'll be super important that Bob the Aging Space Cop speaks up for him, two weeks before retirement and yadda yadda.
*is it too cynical to expect that team up somehow gets shoe-horned into the run of Obi-wan? Some sort of future vision so he can set up a macguffin for his padawan's padawan?
yhea, this episode felt like filler, almost. I agree that the almost-ringworld was cool (given the apparent size in relation to the commercial starships, it cant be around an actual star, its MUCH to small. some sort of artificial star, maybe. the whole thing is rather intresting, its the only megastructure we've seen beyond the two death stars.
while its cool to catch up with mando, I dont think its exactly a good sign for the show that they cant even fill a whole 8 episode season with the TITLE CHARACTER and have to fall back on the parent show to fix the episode count. the choice of spaceship is pure nostalgia fuel, it could have been anything. frankly a classic Y wing would have made more sense, and likely been more practical than his current ride for bounty hunting.
the return of the space cop is....intresting? it implies a much greater new republic presence on Tatooine than previously implied, if x wings in system are in a position to do routine traffic stops. which raises the question of why they arent doing anything about the obvious problems on the planet. it works better when the place was just another distant colony world not worth worrying about, forgotton by the governing polity.
in regards to the spoiler-ed question: no idea, speculation to follow
Spoiler:
im guessing the core answer is "force shenanigans", but the weapon is explicitly a lightsaber made by a Mandalorian, so maybe its pesudo-empthic? the exact words of the Armouer was that "he was fighting the weapon, not his opponent" and that he wasnt focused. I think this is building to either Djinn having to accept the whole "crown jewel and symbol of the leader of the Mandalorians " aspect of the weapon, or resolve his attachment towards Grogu and emotionally "let go" of him as well as physically.
Finally Boba show gets good by… becoming a different show.
It’s a bold move cotton.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Loved it personally. Great to see a different (albeit not original, but what is now?) location in the Star Wars universe.
Spoiler:
And the Naboo Fighter...any suggestions that it was Anakin's? I forget what happened to his ship.
Gods probably. In a galaxy of trillions Lucas film likes to have everyone one two degrees of separation. Wouldn’t surprise me if the stormtrooper Luke mugged to get his armour in Star Wars was his old golf buddy.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Voss wrote: I love the Ralph McQuarrie-like storyboard artwork at the end of each episode too.
Yeah, that's pretty cool and I liked those in the Mandalorian as well.
What's not so cool is when you see that the artist gave the scene and the questions that might arise from it some decent thought and it wasn't carried over to the actual scene. Not great seeing they had the right idea but didn't go with it.
yeah, the art for the scenes is legitimately great, consistently much better than what they filmed.
It actively undermines the poor episodes by showing a kind of ‘here’s what you could have won’ sequence.
To those who have so far solely pissed and moaned.
You’re continuing to watch this show……..why?
Don’t get me wrong. I’m easily pleased and proud of it. Yet there are some shows others enjoy that I don’t.
But. The sort of but Sir Mixalot is terribly fond of but?
I just feel no need to watch those shows, let alone tell others that I’m not particularly enjoying them.
And when pressed, I do my best to keep my distaste sharp and succinct, that those who do enjoy said show don’t feel like there’s some bloke on the internet mad about it.
yeah, the art for the scenes is legitimately great, consistently much better than what they filmed.
All of them or any in particular? The show has been so meh overall that I haven't watched any of them unlike with Mando s1/2. As soon as the director credits start rolling, I back out. I might go back and see how different they are.
Well, with all of the other fodder on streaming, I think I will wait for BoBF to finish, then possibly binge it, as waiting for each week is just not working for me now, given the lackluster plot and characters.
Witcher is shaping up nicely and is what I am watching now, then will probably move to Peacemaker.
However, I am very glad others are enjoying it - maybe I just need a better education on the backstory and the SW universe to better appreciate the nuances.
So the whole “it gets heavier” and “you’re fighting against it” thing?
The heck is that about? I’m guessing it’s Old Republic/old EU Lore, as I’ve not seen anyone else query it yet?
Please do the courtesy of spoiler tagging response
So it's been a while but...
Spoiler:
...they established in Rebels when Sabine is being taught to wield the Darksaber by Kanan that it's somehow in tune with the wielder's emotional state. If you're rigid try to force your will, the saber resists,but if you are flexible and listen to the will of the Force, the saber will flow with ease.
Yes, it's odd, but at least it's a previous established thing
I know that folks seem to not be liking it, but I'm having a blast with both of these shows. They're taking the time to explain things, look at what has happened, not just what is happening. Getting to see Din was a big surprise, and I love that they're intertwining the shows together, making this feel like a consistent universe.
Instead of BoBF being it's own thing, and then Mandalorian being it's own thing, I feel like they're moving parts in a single story. It really goes to show how Dave and John think big, not just reusing tropes like the new movie trilogy did. I'm really excited to see how Ashoka might fit into this and I have a feeling we will see a lot of crossover.
I really wish the new star trek shows were doing this instead of the mess that they're trying to cobble together.
yeah, the art for the scenes is legitimately great, consistently much better than what they filmed.
All of them or any in particular? The show has been so meh overall that I haven't watched any of them unlike with Mando s1/2. As soon as the director credits start rolling, I back out. I might go back and see how different they are.
The forging of Boba's Tusken Whacking Stick really stands out.
In the art, its a proper-looking forge, with equipment and air of gravity and solemnity that really fits the creation of a ritual weapon. In the show, they just wander over five feet to a ruined wall and table, hack most of the wood away, replace it with metal, and glue in some fins into grooves, rubbing some solder on the outside of the join as if that would keep a weapon together in any way at all. Its a huge difference in what's imagined and what was actually put together for the show.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:To those who have so far solely pissed and moaned.
You’re continuing to watch this show……..why?
Don’t get me wrong. I’m easily pleased and proud of it. Yet there are some shows others enjoy that I don’t.
But. The sort of but Sir Mixalot is terribly fond of but?
I just feel no need to watch those shows, let alone tell others that I’m not particularly enjoying them.
And when pressed, I do my best to keep my distaste sharp and succinct, that those who do enjoy said show don’t feel like there’s some bloke on the internet mad about it.
To think that people discuss things on a discussion forum! The shock!
Here's the thing: its not about you. How you feel about 'some bloke on the internet not liking it' (or, indeed, liking it) is completely irrelevant to any discussion going on. I mean, nothing personal (because there's literally nothing personal about it), but no needs worry about how other readers feel about a discussion, any more than people in a comic shop worry about how the soccer mom with a 10 year old at the cash register feels about folks gabbing about the latest issue of Batman. As long as its publicly appropriate and rules-abiding... whatever discussion happens, happens because people are interested in discussing it. Criticism isn't something to be hidden and repressed as if its something shameful or wretched, any more than positivity. (Though- the suffocating kind of positive emotions only feels oh so much more oppressive. Like a plea to only be fake and hide every emotion, because of whatever flavor of social repression).
The failures of these shows leave a lot to talk about (actually probably more than they would if they were actually good, and definitely more than if they were merely passable- that'd be a definite shrug and move on moment)
Consider this episode, where the camera wanders through a dozen places and stories far more interesting than the one actually being told, and the end of the most important relationships of a character's entire life are met with the same dispassion and disinterest (or inability to emote) as extended, repeated, tedious jokes about furries. But hey, he ends up with a ship that's completely impractical for his career and lifestyle, but it goes zoom. That's... a fantastically intriguing waste of 50 minutes of screen time.
Why would anyone who witnessed it NOT want to talk about it with other people?
xerxeskingofking wrote: yhea, this episode felt like filler, almost. I agree that the almost-ringworld was cool (given the apparent size in relation to the commercial starships, it cant be around an actual star, its MUCH to small. some sort of artificial star, maybe. the whole thing is rather intresting, its the only megastructure we've seen beyond the two death stars.
while its cool to catch up with mando, I dont think its exactly a good sign for the show that they cant even fill a whole 8 episode season with the TITLE CHARACTER and have to fall back on the parent show to fix the episode count. the choice of spaceship is pure nostalgia fuel, it could have been anything. frankly a classic Y wing would have made more sense, and likely been more practical than his current ride for bounty hunting.
the return of the space cop is....intresting? it implies a much greater new republic presence on Tatooine than previously implied, if x wings in system are in a position to do routine traffic stops. which raises the question of why they arent doing anything about the obvious problems on the planet. it works better when the place was just another distant colony world not worth worrying about, forgotton by the governing polity.
in regards to the spoiler-ed question: no idea, speculation to follow
Spoiler:
im guessing the core answer is "force shenanigans", but the weapon is explicitly a lightsaber made by a Mandalorian, so maybe its pesudo-empthic? the exact words of the Armouer was that "he was fighting the weapon, not his opponent" and that he wasnt focused. I think this is building to either Djinn having to accept the whole "crown jewel and symbol of the leader of the Mandalorians " aspect of the weapon, or resolve his attachment towards Grogu and emotionally "let go" of him as well as physically.
Try looking at it from a different perspective. These shows are all parts of a bigger whole. There will be crossovers, there should be crossovers. Instead of threating them all as separate and compartmentalized, they're melding them showing a living, breathing universe.
As for the spoiler you posted, I'm fairly agreeing with you, though I want to add a third option. What Bo-Katan said. He's in a cult, and that cult isn't good for the future of Mandalore or its people. It's not just the Visla idea of how the culture should be. under Satine and her ancestors leadership, Mandalore knew 1000 years of peace. That could be a reality again.
The failures of these shows leave a lot to talk about (actually probably more than they would if they were actually good, and definitely more than if they were merely passable- that'd be a definite shrug and move on moment) Consider this episode, where the camera wanders through a dozen places and stories far more interesting than the one actually being told, and the end of the most important relationships of a character's entire life are met with the same dispassion and disinterest (or inability to emote) as extended, repeated, tedious jokes about furries. But hey, he ends up with a ship that's completely impractical for his career and lifestyle, but it goes zoom. That's... a fantastically intriguing waste of 50 minutes of screen time.
Why would anyone who witnessed it NOT want to talk about it with other people?
What he's getting at is that you don't like the show, right? Well I love it and I think it's the best thing for Star Wars since The Clone Wars animated show.
So since it's art and it's purely subjective, neither you or I's opinion really matters in the grand scheme of things.
When I sit down to watch it, I'm going to enjoy it. When you sit down to watch it, you likely won't enjoy it as you haven't really seemed to so far.
What more is there to say? You aren't going to suddenly convince one side that the show is either bad or good. That's already been determined.
You hated the N-1 Starfighter. I absolutely LOVED it. What more is there to say about it? You can look for the group that agrees with you, discuss it thoroughly and then what? You aren't making the show, it's not going to change. If you want to talk about a fantastic waste of 50 minutes of your life, this seems to be it. It's like the old adage about atheists and golf. People who don't golf, don't waste time sitting around bitching about golf. They just move on and go do something worth their time. The other posters question is valid, a lot of you say "I don't like it, yet you're still here in thread complaining about it and watching the show. Just move on, go find something else that IS worth your time and that you enjoy.
Try looking at it from a different perspective. These shows are all parts of a bigger whole. There will be crossovers, there should be crossovers. Instead of threating them all as separate and compartmentalized, they're melding them showing a living, breathing universe.
The problem is they don't feel like crossovers of a living, breathing setting (unless its all about one neighborhood on the same street). They're comic book crossovers, where's its all about getting the audience to spend money on a comic they otherwise wouldn't buy.
This one in particular would be far more convincing if they'd, say, called in a favor or contacted him a different system. But the only reason Mando's now involved at all is a really contrived chain of events involving him visiting familar faces and ending up in a random spot he was once seen standing before. Rather than going to the Crazy Wookie's Ship Emporium on the Ringworld of Far More Interesting Things and buying a ship and just getting on with his life.
Spoiler:
Or you know, in some way reacting to getting thrown out of his cult, like going on a binge or getting in a fight or... something. Nope, took a plane to go see the untrustworthy mechanic at the back end of space, who immediately proved to be... shock... untrustworthy
The new ship is cool, although I'm wondering where he's going to carry his bounties. Replacing the astromech socket with a Grogu-sized dome seems like foreshadowing...
...they established in Rebels when Sabine is being taught to wield the Darksaber by Kanan that it's somehow in tune with the wielder's emotional state. If you're rigid try to force your will, the saber resists,but if you are flexible and listen to the will of the Force, the saber will flow with ease.
Yes, it's odd, but at least it's a previous established thing
-
Spoiler:
It also goes right back to Lucas' original ideas behind lightsabers. They're used with two hands in the original movies because they were supposed to be heavy, and it was only a Jedi's connection with the force that allowed them to use the things effectively in the first place, which is why only Jedi (and, you know, former Jedi) used them.
Jedi in the prequel era often used them one-handed to accentuate that these were Jedi in their prime, and so more in tune with the force and their weapons. But the two-handed style was still the style everyone started out with.
It also goes right back to Lucas' original ideas behind lightsabers. They're used with two hands in the original movies because they were supposed to be heavy, and it was only a Jedi's connection with the force that allowed them to use the things effectively in the first place, which is why only Jedi (and, you know, former Jedi) used them.
Jedi in the prequel era often used them one-handed to accentuate that these were Jedi in their prime, and so more in tune with the force and their weapons. But the two-handed style was still the style everyone started out with.
Interesting. I wonder if that was retrocanon inserted back into the OT to justify the more kinetic action of the prequels. Either way, I'm fine with it and didn't know about it regardless. I'd stay that Obi-Wan, while obviously rusty in terms of actual combat, was pretty darn in tune and should have still been using it that way in ANH. YMMV.
Try looking at it from a different perspective. These shows are all parts of a bigger whole. There will be crossovers, there should be crossovers. Instead of threating them all as separate and compartmentalized, they're melding them showing a living, breathing universe.
The problem is they don't feel like crossovers of a living, breathing setting (unless its all about one neighborhood on the same street). They're comic book crossovers, where's its all about getting the audience to spend money on a comic they otherwise wouldn't buy.
This one in particular would be far more convincing if they'd, say, called in a favor or contacted him a different system. But the only reason Mando's now involved at all is a really contrived chain of events involving him visiting familar faces and ending up in a random spot he was once seen standing before. Rather than going to the Crazy Wookie's Ship Emporium on the Ringworld of Far More Interesting Things and buying a ship and just getting on with his life.
Spoiler:
Or you know, in some way reacting to getting thrown out of his cult, like going on a binge or getting in a fight or... something. Nope, took a plane to go see the untrustworthy mechanic at the back end of space, who immediately proved to be... shock... untrustworthy
How was she untrustworthy? She literally got him a better ship than the one he had before. I get it bro, you don't like the show. That sucks, but you won't convince me to see your way...
Perhaps the show isn't for you. I don't know what to tell ya.
warboss wrote: I'd stay that Obi-Wan, while obviously rusty in terms of actual combat, was pretty darn in tune and should have still been using it that way in ANH. YMMV.
When ANH was made Obi-wan was an old guy and Vader, while younger, was half robot, which was supposed to interfere with his connection to the force. Both things have become increasingly absurd in the wake of the prequels and other tie-in material establishing Vader as a superb duelist and the introduction of different dueling styles, but it's where it all started.
warboss wrote: I'd stay that Obi-Wan, while obviously rusty in terms of actual combat, was pretty darn in tune and should have still been using it that way in ANH. YMMV.
When ANH was made Obi-wan was an old guy and Vader, while younger, was half robot, which was supposed to interfere with his connection to the force. Both things have become increasingly absurd in the wake of the prequels and other tie-in material establishing Vader as a superb duelist and the introduction of different dueling styles, but it's where it all started.
I don't think age reduces your connection to the force otherwise Yoda might as well be part of the Jedi farming corps for the barely force sensitive.
Age explains the obvious phsyical infirmity but not the connection to the force that you mentioned was what determines the ease of lightsaber use. Don't get me wrong as I actually like the retcon but don't think it gels well with ANH specifically for that scene. Of course, Obi was trying to die so that could explain it as he just needed to stay alive long enough to save Luke before becoming one with the force.
Try looking at it from a different perspective. These shows are all parts of a bigger whole. There will be crossovers, there should be crossovers. Instead of threating them all as separate and compartmentalized, they're melding them showing a living, breathing universe.
The problem is they don't feel like crossovers of a living, breathing setting (unless its all about one neighborhood on the same street). They're comic book crossovers, where's its all about getting the audience to spend money on a comic they otherwise wouldn't buy.
This one in particular would be far more convincing if they'd, say, called in a favor or contacted him a different system. But the only reason Mando's now involved at all is a really contrived chain of events involving him visiting familar faces and ending up in a random spot he was once seen standing before. Rather than going to the Crazy Wookie's Ship Emporium on the Ringworld of Far More Interesting Things and buying a ship and just getting on with his life.
Spoiler:
Or you know, in some way reacting to getting thrown out of his cult, like going on a binge or getting in a fight or... something. Nope, took a plane to go see the untrustworthy mechanic at the back end of space, who immediately proved to be... shock... untrustworthy
How was she untrustworthy? She literally got him a better ship than the one he had before. I get it bro, you don't like the show. That sucks, but you won't convince me to see your way...
You're kidding, right? It isn't even the first time she tried to scam him, but let's see:
He makes it clear he asked for (and was expecting) a replacement for his Razor Crest gunship.
She _got him_ a pile of parts, in the loose shape of a starfighter (and to be honest, until the sheet fully came off, I thought it was Anakin's pod racer). He traded for additional parts to make it work. He assembled it. She, quite frankly, fethed off and largely didn't help.
If you go to a (used car) dealership, and ask for an armored truck, are you going to be happy with vintage mustang in pieces? And an expectation that you'll DYI it? With a punch of scavenged bits that don't fit the original car and may not work? (Not to mention that future maintenance is going to be a bear, because everything is overclocked and no one makes the parts anymore). It isn't vaguely better for him. Where is he storing bounties, gear, supplies? He lived out of his ship. He barely fits in the new one's cockpit (and honestly I suspect that he only reason he 'fit' is CGI). An antique starfighter for blowing up or racing other fighters doesn't help a bounty hunter. No one is going to pay for chunks of meat floating in space, fused to metal and plastic.
Because that's what happened here, regardless of my 'not liking the show.'
So, if I'm not going to convince you, explain why he didn't go to an actual ship dealer on the Ringworld, rather than pay for an interstellar flight (and give up his weapons despite saying he never would... which, typically for this show, was a setup for a scene that didn't pay off at all) and pay for a pile of junk he didn't want and isn't particularly useful to him? What advantage to the story happened here that was superior to Din sorting out his ship troubles in a sensible way off-screen and interacting with the characters of this show in a meaningful fashion? Was it the furry jokes? The name drops of womp rats and Beggar's Canyon?
The forging of Boba's Tusken Whacking Stick really stands out.
In the art, its a proper-looking forge, with equipment and air of gravity and solemnity that really fits the creation of a ritual weapon. In the show, they just wander over five feet to a ruined wall and table, hack most of the wood away, replace it with metal, and glue in some fins into grooves, rubbing some solder on the outside of the join as if that would keep a weapon together in any way at all. Its a huge difference in what's imagined and what was actually put together for the show.
Thanks! I will start there. I not motivated enough to watch the shows over in their entirety but I'll definitely watch the end credits starting with that episode.
warboss wrote: I don't think age reduces your connection to the force otherwise Yoda might as well be part of the Jedi farming corps for the barely force sensitive.
Age explains the obvious phsyical infirmity but not the connection to the force that you mentioned was what determines the ease of lightsaber use. Don't get me wrong as I actually like the retcon but don't think it gels well with ANH specifically for that scene. Of course, Obi was trying to die so that could explain it as he just needed to stay alive long enough to save Luke before becoming one with the force.
I think you misunderstood. What I was explaining wasn't a retcon, it was Lucas's original* reasoning for going with the two handed sword grip in the original movies. As far as I know, this hasn't been specifically retconned, they just kind of ignored it when they moved towards more dynamic fighting styles as the physical props became capable of handling it.
Obi-wan's age is a problem created by Lucas' prequel timeline, particularly in light of the number of elderly Jedi getting around there who are still quite spry. I'm kind of hoping they'll find a way to address that in the Kenobi series... they sort of brushed up against it in the (now Legends) 'Kenobi' novel, but only in regards to his appearance, not his apparent lack of agility.
*to be fair, by 'original' I mean 'what he explained as his original reasoning when making Ep1'... so as with anything relating to past events when explained by George 'I always intended to make 12...6...9 movies' Lucas, it can be taken with a grain of salt...
Living in the desert is certainly not a life that will age you slowly.
I don't dwell too much on the flippy stuff. People over and over demand explanations for things in Star Wars like they were pre-planned, but they just weren't. The OT films were based on samurai films with two handed swords. The prequels came out as anime's influence was seeping into the US (TPM came out like 50 DAYS after The Matrix). It's action was trying to capture the more acrobatic style that was popular at the time. That's all there is to it.
I will say, Rebels did a fabulous job with the Maul duel by having Obi take his prequel pose before dropping to his OT stance. It wins the duel and for me that's transition enough.
As for the weight of the Darksaber; per Rebels that's apparently unique to the Darksaber itself and based on the "original vision". It's crystal links to the emotions of its wielder, which causes its energy flow to become unstable when its wielder is.
Anyway, best episode so far, just... for the wrong show.
Try looking at it from a different perspective. These shows are all parts of a bigger whole. There will be crossovers, there should be crossovers. Instead of threating them all as separate and compartmentalized, they're melding them showing a living, breathing universe.
The problem is they don't feel like crossovers of a living, breathing setting (unless its all about one neighborhood on the same street). They're comic book crossovers, where's its all about getting the audience to spend money on a comic they otherwise wouldn't buy.
This one in particular would be far more convincing if they'd, say, called in a favor or contacted him a different system. But the only reason Mando's now involved at all is a really contrived chain of events involving him visiting familar faces and ending up in a random spot he was once seen standing before. Rather than going to the Crazy Wookie's Ship Emporium on the Ringworld of Far More Interesting Things and buying a ship and just getting on with his life.
Spoiler:
Or you know, in some way reacting to getting thrown out of his cult, like going on a binge or getting in a fight or... something. Nope, took a plane to go see the untrustworthy mechanic at the back end of space, who immediately proved to be... shock... untrustworthy
How was she untrustworthy? She literally got him a better ship than the one he had before. I get it bro, you don't like the show. That sucks, but you won't convince me to see your way...
You're kidding, right? It isn't even the first time she tried to scam him, but let's see:
He makes it clear he asked for (and was expecting) a replacement for his Razor Crest gunship.
She _got him_ a pile of parts, in the loose shape of a starfighter (and to be honest, until the sheet fully came off, I thought it was Anakin's pod racer). He traded for additional parts to make it work. He assembled it. She, quite frankly, fethed off and largely didn't help.
If you go to a (used car) dealership, and ask for an armored truck, are you going to be happy with vintage mustang in pieces? And an expectation that you'll DYI it? With a punch of scavenged bits that don't fit the original car and may not work? (Not to mention that future maintenance is going to be a bear, because everything is overclocked and no one makes the parts anymore). It isn't vaguely better for him. Where is he storing bounties, gear, supplies? He lived out of his ship. He barely fits in the new one's cockpit (and honestly I suspect that he only reason he 'fit' is CGI). An antique starfighter for blowing up or racing other fighters doesn't help a bounty hunter. No one is going to pay for chunks of meat floating in space, fused to metal and plastic.
Because that's what happened here, regardless of my 'not liking the show.'
So, if I'm not going to convince you, explain why he didn't go to an actual ship dealer on the Ringworld, rather than pay for an interstellar flight (and give up his weapons despite saying he never would... which, typically for this show, was a setup for a scene that didn't pay off at all) and pay for a pile of junk he didn't want and isn't particularly useful to him? What advantage to the story happened here that was superior to Din sorting out his ship troubles in a sensible way off-screen and interacting with the characters of this show in a meaningful fashion? Was it the furry jokes? The name drops of womp rats and Beggar's Canyon?
I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the episode. Might I suggest you pick up a copy of the Star Wars RPG, get your friends together and tell this story you've written here? Sounds like it'd be fun!
I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the episode. Might I suggest you pick up a copy of the Star Wars RPG, get your friends together and tell this story you've written here? Sounds like it'd be fun!
This is a very funny burn, but it doesn't correlate well to what Voss was saying. He was clearly attempting to address perceived issues with character motivation and believability rather than a general unhappiness with plot structure and suggested alteration. I would recommend saving this one for use later, and circling back around now with more directly applicable material.
I kindof understand the disconnect that some feel between the art in the credits and the actual vision we see on screen. Most of us can imagine anything, actually bringing it to fruition is an entirely different matter when hampered by time deadlines, budgets and whatever inevitable impracticalities and issues that pop up when on set. Hell, in this hobby how many of us have envisioned amazing conversions and colour schemes for the actual practical result to be quite different? As long as the general spirit of the art is achieved I do not really have a problem with it. My main issue with the credits is that the "dum dums" in the theme remind me of the South Park episode about the Mormons.
He specifically asked for a new Razor Crest. That’s what Peli Motto said she had for him.
The difference between me wanting a new car, and me wanting a new Ford Fiesta. He wasn’t after a new ship as such, but specifically a new Razor Crest.
more specifically, he asked for a small van/ 9 seater type vehicle, specifically a old style one that has less stringent MOT requirements, that would give him room for live or carbon-froze bounties, was told she got him "something as good as" that, and was presented the remains of the antique racing car. even if you like them, its not as practical as the ship its suppose to be replacing.
I'm not against the use of the N-1 as such, i just feel its a poor choice for the character as we know him. Frankly, it would have been better for Fennc, or some other person without a iconic ship.
also, am i right in assuming the following?
Spoiler:
Djnn's gift to Grogu is going to be Baskar chainmail. this might open up options for grogu to survive the destruction of Lukes Jedi academy in the future and go back into hiding to be part of some post rise of skywalker shenanigans.
insaniak wrote: The new ship is cool, although I'm wondering where he's going to carry his bounties.
He seems to have enough room to install a fridge. Yep, he's going to be grinding that kind of bounty until he has the credits to buy a space camper.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: I kindof understand the disconnect that some feel between the art in the credits and the actual vision we see on screen. Most of us can imagine anything, actually bringing it to fruition is an entirely different matter when hampered by time deadlines, budgets and whatever inevitable impracticalities and issues that pop up when on set. Hell, in this hobby how many of us have envisioned amazing conversions and colour schemes for the actual practical result to be quite different? As long as the general spirit of the art is achieved I do not really have a problem with it. My main issue with the credits is that the "dum dums" in the theme remind me of the South Park episode about the Mormons.
I haven't been exposed to South Park in forever, so I'm obviously not getting that impression myself, but I thought the music was a pretty competent take on spaghetti western music (in space!). It's the kind of thing you'd get in the 70s.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Also worth noting he’s not yet agreed to buy it. Rather the agreement was he’d wait to decide until the restoration was complete.
We’ve seen him have a test drive. That’s about it.
He'll certainly buy it if only because he needs an untraceable ship to move around. At the moment, he's stuck taking transport ships and he really isn't the type of crowd to use those. Plus, we know he is searching for Grogu and, potentially, for a way to get back to Mandalore and gain access to collapsed underground mines for his purification ritual. He certainly is going to keep the ship he spent half the episode building. Sure, he might replace it again along the way, but it seems clear that the Mandalorian doesn't want to return to a life of bounty hunting on a consistent basis. He's got a lot of money already and other things on his mind hence why he offers to help Boba for free.
Caught up with episodes 3, 4 and 5 yesterday and my initial impression was confirmed. Boba Fett keeps featuring these weird elements that seem weirdly out of place in Star Wars. First the power rangers ninja assassins, now this teenage cyberpunk biker gang. I was hoping for evil wookie to rid us of them asap, but alas no such luck. He'd rather kill a random trandoshan in a PTSD flashback than people who are actually trying to shoot him.
Then episode 5 hit out of nowhere and made up for most of that jank.
The N1 starfighter was a welcome throwback (and a reminder for me to finally pick it up for X-Wing). Mando's content just works better for some reason, as they seem to strike a better balance between seriousness and silly elements for his content. Another pleasant surprise was the directing of Bryce Dallas Howard, whom I had made a mental note for in one of the better Mando episodes. She's shaping up to be very promising from what I've seen. Gotta check the full extent of her involvement later.
He's only a bounty hunter to support his cult, and since he's taking a vacation from that, realistically he doesn't need a different ship at the moment. He ordered another Razor Crest before his cultist pals made entirely foreseeable cultist decisions. His situation has changed since then.
Plus, as the (publicly known) wielder of the Darksaber he has a pretty big target on his back and a nimble star fighter is a better option than a transport.
What I was explaining wasn't a retcon, it was Lucas's original* reasoning for going with the two handed sword grip in the original movies. As far as I know, this hasn't been specifically retconned, they just kind of ignored it when they moved towards more dynamic fighting styles as the physical props became capable of handling it.
Fair enough. I was fine with simply assuming that his 1950s Japanese samurai film influences extended to how the held their swords as well as the lack of frenetic action and swashbuckling flourishes in favor of short but sweet deliberate but swift strikes and the two handed poses that go with them. I didn't need any more of an explicit explanation personally beyond the different styles of saber fighting in the EU.
*to be fair, by 'original' I mean 'what he explained as his original reasoning when making Ep1'... so as with anything relating to past events when explained by George 'I always intended to make 12...6...9 movies' Lucas, it can be taken with a grain of salt...
Yeah, I sometimes think he retcons his own recollections more than everything else combined in order to justify whatever is floating on the top of his mind like driftwood at the moment when he doesn't need to frankly.
xerxeskingofking wrote: yhea, this episode felt like filler, almost. I agree that the almost-ringworld was cool (given the apparent size in relation to the commercial starships, it cant be around an actual star, its MUCH to small. some sort of artificial star, maybe. the whole thing is rather intresting, its the only megastructure we've seen beyond the two death stars.
while its cool to catch up with mando, I dont think its exactly a good sign for the show that they cant even fill a whole 8 episode season with the TITLE CHARACTER and have to fall back on the parent show to fix the episode count. the choice of spaceship is pure nostalgia fuel, it could have been anything. frankly a classic Y wing would have made more sense, and likely been more practical than his current ride for bounty hunting.
the return of the space cop is....intresting? it implies a much greater new republic presence on Tatooine than previously implied, if x wings in system are in a position to do routine traffic stops. which raises the question of why they arent doing anything about the obvious problems on the planet. it works better when the place was just another distant colony world not worth worrying about, forgotton by the governing polity.
It's a bit odd. The New Republic currently have some very big fish still to fry in terms of the Imperial Remnant and setting up an actual government. Endor was only 5 years ago. But...
... Tatooine, for all that he was keen to get away, is where Luke "Now in charge of setting up the Jedi and and Republic War Hero" grew up. His sister is a Very Very Important Person, presumably in whatever senate the NR is setting up. They've got family ties to the place. The New Republic may not actually, technically, be in charge of Tatooine. It may not have any form of centralised planetary government. But you can be damn sure they're going to send a couple of x-wings by every few days to keep at least an eye on things.
Which is also fairly sensible - for all that it's a backwater, stuff HAPPENS on Tatoonine. We put it down to lack of scriptwriter imagination. People in the galaxy must just wonder why every damn thing happens there and it's worth keeping tabs on it.
Even if Boba does set up a Crime Empire - the New Republic may be knocking on the door rather sooner than he would be comfortable with. And he doesn't have the backing of all of Hutt space.
I think his new ship will be great... escort fighter for when he gets a gunship he can live nomadically in and ply his trade from. Plus I bet they are pricier to maintain, just like any other fighter vs plane in existence.
And yes, I thought pod racer too with a sinking heart for some time.
xerxeskingofking wrote: yhea, this episode felt like filler, almost. I agree that the almost-ringworld was cool (given the apparent size in relation to the commercial starships, it cant be around an actual star, its MUCH to small. some sort of artificial star, maybe. the whole thing is rather intresting, its the only megastructure we've seen beyond the two death stars.
while its cool to catch up with mando, I dont think its exactly a good sign for the show that they cant even fill a whole 8 episode season with the TITLE CHARACTER and have to fall back on the parent show to fix the episode count. the choice of spaceship is pure nostalgia fuel, it could have been anything. frankly a classic Y wing would have made more sense, and likely been more practical than his current ride for bounty hunting.
the return of the space cop is....intresting? it implies a much greater new republic presence on Tatooine than previously implied, if x wings in system are in a position to do routine traffic stops. which raises the question of why they arent doing anything about the obvious problems on the planet. it works better when the place was just another distant colony world not worth worrying about, forgotton by the governing polity.
It's a bit odd. The New Republic currently have some very big fish still to fry in terms of the Imperial Remnant and setting up an actual government. Endor was only 5 years ago. But...
... Tatooine, for all that he was keen to get away, is where Luke "Now in charge of setting up the Jedi and and Republic War Hero" grew up. His sister is a Very Very Important Person, presumably in whatever senate the NR is setting up. They've got family ties to the place. The New Republic may not actually, technically, be in charge of Tatooine. It may not have any form of centralised planetary government. But you can be damn sure they're going to send a couple of x-wings by every few days to keep at least an eye on things.
Which is also fairly sensible - for all that it's a backwater, stuff HAPPENS on Tatoonine. We put it down to lack of scriptwriter imagination. People in the galaxy must just wonder why every damn thing happens there and it's worth keeping tabs on it.
Even if Boba does set up a Crime Empire - the New Republic may be knocking on the door rather sooner than he would be comfortable with. And he doesn't have the backing of all of Hutt space.
Maybe that's (at least in part) the reason why Boba wants to run a "clean" business - he doesn't make waves, he doesn't break any major laws, and he can keep the whole thing under the radar with a few bribes here and there. If the New Republic is truly looking after Tatooine, he's more in the territory of dodgy businessman/conglomerate than crime lord, just legitimate enough for the authorities not to bother him.
Also I'm getting the impression the New Republic may have learned from the Empire and the way the Outer Rim provided shelter to the rebels, and don't want the Imperial Remnant to benefit the same way. So they at least have a monitoring presence even if their ability or willingness to actually police that space is limited.
Republic presence in the skies might also serve as a handwave for why the Pykes transport spice in ground based transports. There's still a couple of elements missing, but it's not a bad start for an explanation.
BertBert wrote: Mando's content just works better for some reason
He's an active character. Even when he's somewhat directionless, he's got a task to complete (bring in the bounty) and something he wants to accomplish (get a means of travel to bring his kid a present). These minor goals push him into encountering the real story in organic ways.
Boba is remarkably passive, even for a passive character. We saw him accomplish his goals in the post credit scene of a previous show after which he planned to sit in the chair and be in charge. It requires the plot come to him and since they seem to want to write him as the underdog, creates this sense that he doesn't really have any idea what he's doing. A passive protagonist can work if they're written as more of the mastermind archetype, so that you get the satisfaction of watching their plans unfold in spite of attempts to stop them. Boba is just oddly written as more of hero archetype, anti-hero at best, and it doesn't work quite as well in the passive role without a significant goal to follow.
Geifer wrote: Plus, as the (publicly known) wielder of the Darksaber he has a pretty big target on his back and a nimble star fighter is a better option than a transport.
I hope the star fighter is destroyed or sold. I feel like he's going to be given Boba Fett's ship once he's done adding some muscle to Boba's gang war. That's a ship fit for a bounty hunter and bounty hunting isn't Boba's gig anymore. Also, the tiny ship eliminates any sort of on board shenanigans or allowing multitudes of supporting cast to ride together.
The Grogu-pod implies otherwise, but timeline-wise, how close are we to Ben's massacre? It's entirely possible that we next see Mando in the finale, returning with Grogu in tow before swapping (and renaming) Boba's ship. After which I suspect we'll see a lot of the "Look at Me" meme with "I am Boba Fett now".
Narrative mechanics wise it would make more sense for him to bag something with a docking bay, or like the Ghost from Rebels, with the ability to keep the fighter with him. Keeps more options open for story telling and/or action sequences.
LunarSol wrote: The Grogu-pod implies otherwise, but timeline-wise, how close are we to Ben's massacre?
Not at all? I assume he was at least mid-teens before he went on a murder spree, and we don't even know if he's born yet or not.
Five years out from Endor makes the latter possible, but not much else.
OK, wookiepedia has naturally mapped all this out because of course it did.
Ben was born 5 ABY (after battle of Yavin) (Battle of Endor was 4 ABY, so Han and Leia moved things right along)
Din & Boba are running around in 9 ABY
Ben's massacre is 28 ABY
So Grogu has about 19 years of time to do training and... whatever, including conveniently not being there at the time.
Last we saw of Mando, he was the de facto owner of an Imperial light cruiser with a hangar (only slightly crashed into) and a pile of seriously advanced droid parts (some crush damage and lightsabre cuts). Not to mention a captured war criminal.
While I'm sure the three who are still employed by Disney are no more capable of running a capital ship than I would be, there may be far more background to fill in the gaps next season.
Momotaro wrote: Last we saw of Mando, he was the de facto owner of an Imperial light cruiser with a hangar (only slightly crashed into) and a pile of seriously advanced droid parts (some crush damage and lightsabre cuts). Not to mention a captured war criminal.
While I'm sure the three who are still employed by Disney are no more capable of running a capital ship than I would be, there may be far more background to fill in the gaps next season.
I was under the impression that Bo-Katan and company were taking the ship for... whatever their plans were.
And the war criminal was explicitly shipped off to the New Republic (according to this episode).
Thoughts about Ep. 5:
I think Fett will end up with the Dark Saber and turn Tatooine into the new home world for the Mandalorians and be their leader. That's how he gets his tribe, and forces, to fight the Pikes.
Din will gift Grogu with chainmail made from the Beskar Spear. This will ensure Grogu survives Kylo Ren's attack on the students.
Voss wrote: I was under the impression that Bo-Katan and company were taking the ship for... whatever their plans were.
Same here. Bo-Katan seems like she could actually drum up a crew to man the cruiser. Din can't. He'd have no use for it even if he wanted to claim it.
Another option is that the ship is impounded by the Republic. Which probably wouldn't go down well with Bo-Katan since she has ambitions and those might get farther if she has a warship.
Thoughts about Ep. 5:
I think Fett will end up with the Dark Saber and turn Tatooine into the new home world for the Mandalorians and be their leader. That's how he gets his tribe, and forces, to fight the Pikes.
Din will gift Grogu with chainmail made from the Beskar Spear. This will ensure Grogu survives Kylo Ren's attack on the students.
That suped up N-1 was really nice looking.
I love Amy Sedaris!
I'm pretty sure that the gift is a shiny ball of Beskar, but I agree in the forging montage there were pretty clearly what looked like chainmail links flying around, so I'm open minded.
Well. I enjoyed this ep a lot more than the rest of the series, although I wasn't expecting we'd get something like this. Mando works a lot (like a LOT lot) better as a series MC than Boba.
It’s pretty embarrassing how much better Book of Boba Fett is when Din Djarin is the protagonist. This episode is not perfect or anything but I enjoyed it so much more than the previous four specifically because, despite going in very hopeful and with an open mind, the way Boba has been handled is just downright puzzling. Why does he insist on intimidating a tiny cartoonish droid? Why does he pilot his spaceship to physically look into the sarlaac? Why is he a completely inept negotiator? Ugh. It’s a thousand times better to see Din slice his own damn leg with the damn Darksaber and get kicked out of us his cult. Was the point of Book of Boba Fett to make me realize how much I prefer Din Djarin?
I've seen a few comments on Facebook and elsewhere i aggree with and will echo here, that i think part of the problem is that Fett has so far been very passive, throughout the series. hes constantly reacting to others, but not really driving the plot. He doesnt have a clear objective, or sub-objectives he needs to complete in order to further his cause. he starts the series having effectively "won" the only thing we knew he was aiming for (jabbas throne), but isnt really able to use that position to inlfuence events and make changes to mos espa. about all he's done so far is survive a few assassination attempts, piss off one of the few people that pays "tribute"/protection money to him, and collect assorted misfits to work for him, none of which really help his stated long term goal of rule "based on respect"/not based of pure fear. hes not really managed to convice....well, ANY of the local centers of power to support him, and doesnt seem to have a clearly explained plan of how hes going to do this.
DJinn, by comparison, is much more active, and is moving the story he is in along. he basically always has clear objectives, and is almost always working towards those. He want to find his fellow mandos, he wants to redeem himself by their creed, he wants to give his gift to Grogu, he needs a ship, he needs to fix to the ship etc. the plot feels better because hes actually making progress towards these goals.
Djinn moves his plot forward, but the plot moves around Fett, and it feels like djinn's story has moved forward more in 1 episode that Fetts story has in 4 episodes.
xerxeskingofking wrote: Djinn moves his plot forward, but the plot moves around Fett, and it feels like djinn's story has moved forward more in 1 episode that Fetts story has in 4 episodes.
Please! Don't rush the elderly!
I wonder if they're trying to make Boba into a genius masterminding a specific plot and his happy go lucky approach will be revealed to be part of it, and a deliberate ruse. I could see it. If the writers didn't know what to do with the character they would have just gone with easy fan service and made him a total badass. Anyone who's not into him would be rolling their eyes just as hard as they are now but at least they'd get cheers from the Boba fans. It's such a low hanging fruit. Which makes me think that they have a plan that they don't feel like sharing with the audience.
Not that I personally needed it, mind, I've never liked the character much. But I'd watch anything with Ming-Na Wen on it, so...
Agreed. I was a fan of hers in Stargate Universe and am glad to see her back in space scifi (never watched Agents of Shield though). This pic (likely from the 90s given the scanned physical photo quality instead of digital) definitely doesn't dissuade me either!
xerxeskingofking wrote: Djinn moves his plot forward, but the plot moves around Fett, and it feels like djinn's story has moved forward more in 1 episode that Fetts story has in 4 episodes.
Please! Don't rush the elderly!
I wonder if they're trying to make Boba into a genius masterminding a specific plot and his happy go lucky approach will be revealed to be part of it, and a deliberate ruse. I could see it. If the writers didn't know what to do with the character they would have just gone with easy fan service and made him a total badass. Anyone who's not into him would be rolling their eyes just as hard as they are now but at least they'd get cheers from the Boba fans. It's such a low hanging fruit. Which makes me think that they have a plan that they don't feel like sharing with the audience.
Deconstruction of the mystery anti-hero, maybe?
This show reminds me of the HH novel series complaints, that telling the story sucks all the mystery (and more importantly) possibility out of it.
Boba as a mastermind seems like a reach at this point, there isn't enough time for anything more than a perfunctory 'all according to plan' which will come off as deeply unsatisfying. We still have to have an actual confrontation here, after all.
I hope the ending is it all blows up in his face and he just leaves with Mando. Ming takes over the crime stuff because shes competent and boba becomes Mando's partner on search of water on Mandalore.
Not that I personally needed it, mind, I've never liked the character much. But I'd watch anything with Ming-Na Wen on it, so...
Agreed. I was a fan of hers in Stargate Universe and am glad to see her back in space scifi (never watched Agents of Shield though). This pic (likely from the 90s given the scanned physical photo quality instead of digital) definitely doesn't dissuade me either!
Spoiler:
Man, it’s been so long since I watched Universe I don’t even remember her, or really anyone, in it. She did kick quite a good bit of butt in Shield though. She was The butt kicker on that team.
xerxeskingofking wrote: Djinn moves his plot forward, but the plot moves around Fett, and it feels like djinn's story has moved forward more in 1 episode that Fetts story has in 4 episodes.
Please! Don't rush the elderly!
I wonder if they're trying to make Boba into a genius masterminding a specific plot and his happy go lucky approach will be revealed to be part of it, and a deliberate ruse. I could see it. If the writers didn't know what to do with the character they would have just gone with easy fan service and made him a total badass. Anyone who's not into him would be rolling their eyes just as hard as they are now but at least they'd get cheers from the Boba fans. It's such a low hanging fruit. Which makes me think that they have a plan that they don't feel like sharing with the audience.
Deconstruction of the mystery anti-hero, maybe?
This show reminds me of the HH novel series complaints, that telling the story sucks all the mystery (and more importantly) possibility out of it.
Boba as a mastermind seems like a reach at this point, there isn't enough time for anything more than a perfunctory 'all according to plan' which will come off as deeply unsatisfying. We still have to have an actual confrontation here, after all.
Granted, depending on runtime of the remaining episodes whatever they have in mind could be a tight fit.
I have a completely bogus idea, real tinfoil hat stuff, but it would explain a lot. We know he's going to confront the Pykes and that will probably be the big finale. What if he's snorted a lizard again and the whole underworld boss thing is just the framework for getting revenge for his tribe? He doesn't really know what he's doing, nor particularly care, because of the Delirium Lizard guiding him on his path. He's all about honor and respect since that's what he picked up from his tribe and those values take precedence over practical considerations of how to set up and run a criminal empire. It's all about avenging the Tusken, which has been the focus of the show for so long and explains why the underworld boss plot is just a side show between the dreams/flashbacks. And when he's done, his tribe has been avenged and he and the lizard go their separate ways, he just so happens to be in a good place for a happy end because he's at the top of a functional, little criminal empire.
I'd laugh if this was even a remotely accurate prediction.
Not sure if what we're seeing is much of a deconstruction. It's a continuation of the young Boba stories in Clone Wars where Boba is the ideas man but other bounty hunters do a lot of the heavy lifting for him. He hasn't exactly had a stellar showing in the original trilogy. Even in Episode V he has the same bright idea as Han and then lets Vader catch his bounty for him. In terms of what seems to be canonical under Disney, Book of Boba is more of the same. but, I'm not big on deconstructions and don't usually see what people find so interesting about them, so I don't have much to say about that.
AduroT wrote: Man, it’s been so long since I watched Universe I don’t even remember her, or really anyone, in it.
Isn't that good? Shouldn't we strive to forget that Stargate Universe ever existed?
Not sure if what we're seeing is much of a deconstruction.
I wasn't particularly serious about that, just that filmmakers seem to reach for that as an excuse when their film or show is bad (or just poorly received)
Not sure if what we're seeing is much of a deconstruction.
I wasn't particularly serious about that, just that filmmakers seem to reach for that as an excuse when their film or show is bad (or just poorly received)
Yeah pretty much. It's usually either that or they directly say that toxic fandoms or specific subsets of people (usually men) are a certain "ism" and thus were what caused it to do badly.
Not sure if what we're seeing is much of a deconstruction.
I wasn't particularly serious about that, just that filmmakers seem to reach for that as an excuse when their film or show is bad (or just poorly received)
Yeah pretty much. It's usually either that or they directly say that toxic fandoms or specific subsets of people (usually men) are a certain "ism" and thus were what caused it to do badly.
Nope. Only the former. Don't bring that crap into the discussion, or at least don't attach it to what I said.
Not sure if what we're seeing is much of a deconstruction.
I wasn't particularly serious about that, just that filmmakers seem to reach for that as an excuse when their film or show is bad (or just poorly received)
Yeah pretty much. It's usually either that or they directly say that toxic fandoms or specific subsets of people (usually men) are a certain "ism" and thus were what caused it to do badly.
Nope. Only the former. Don't bring that crap into the discussion, or at least don't attach it to what I said.
I wouldn't say only the former when you have garbage like Santa Inc doing terribly because it's fundamentally a bad show, but its creator Seth Rogen tries to address its bad reception due to the intervention of white supremacists. (also see Ghostbusters 2016)
But I'm going off topic. With only 2 episodes left, I feel like even if Boba ends up beating the Pykes, it doesn't seem like he'll have much of an underworld Empire afterwards given how small scale his operations are and how little people give a fart about him even if he manages to drive the Pykes off. How is it going to try and follow up with a second season of Book of Boba if it feels like nothing has really changed for Boba's status as a would-be kingpin?
xerxeskingofking wrote: Djinn moves his plot forward, but the plot moves around Fett, and it feels like djinn's story has moved forward more in 1 episode that Fetts story has in 4 episodes.
Please! Don't rush the elderly!
I wonder if they're trying to make Boba into a genius masterminding a specific plot and his happy go lucky approach will be revealed to be part of it, and a deliberate ruse. I could see it. If the writers didn't know what to do with the character they would have just gone with easy fan service and made him a total badass. Anyone who's not into him would be rolling their eyes just as hard as they are now but at least they'd get cheers from the Boba fans. It's such a low hanging fruit. Which makes me think that they have a plan that they don't feel like sharing with the audience.
Deconstruction of the mystery anti-hero, maybe?
This show reminds me of the HH novel series complaints, that telling the story sucks all the mystery (and more importantly) possibility out of it.
Boba as a mastermind seems like a reach at this point, there isn't enough time for anything more than a perfunctory 'all according to plan' which will come off as deeply unsatisfying. We still have to have an actual confrontation here, after all.
Maybe Luke can fly in with his x-wing for the finale. Or maybe CGI Han will let bygones be and save the day.
So here is my hot-take, which has actually already been mentioned here a bit:
I like the show.
I LOVED the Mandalorian... but this one, eh, I like it. I totally agree with the criticisms of storytelling, plotting, character development... but also: it has the kind of ridiculous spectacle and silly weirdness that makes Star-Wars, well, Star-Wars. At least to me.
Is it a great show? Nope. Is it even a "good" show as in a specific level of quality above some kind of norm... probably also nope. Is it a FUN show that I enjoy watching for the above reasons? Absolutely.
I guess that's enough for me. That may seem like a low bar, but it's also nice to have a show that isn't super-dark and depressing or silly. It's just entertaining television where the effects are shiny, the characters look cool, and quite possibly someone will ride a Rancor like a fething horse by the end of it.
I'm not really looking for anything else right now.
leerm02 wrote: So here is my hot-take, which has actually already been mentioned here a bit:
I like the show.
I LOVED the Mandalorian... but this one, eh, I like it. I totally agree with the criticisms of storytelling, plotting, character development... but also: it has the kind of ridiculous spectacle and silly weirdness that makes Star-Wars, well, Star-Wars. At least to me.
Is it a great show? Nope. Is it even a "good" show as in a specific level of quality above some kind of norm... probably also nope. Is it a FUN show that I enjoy watching for the above reasons? Absolutely.
I guess that's enough for me. That may seem like a low bar, but it's also nice to have a show that isn't super-dark and depressing or silly. It's just entertaining television where the effects are shiny, the characters look cool, and quite possibly someone will ride a Rancor like a fething horse by the end of it.
I'm not really looking for anything else right now.
I'm glad you're able to enjoy it, but I think a lot of the reason why people can't is because it's entire premise is based around a character that has fandom reputation and mythos of being a badass due to the expanded universe and just his mystery in the original trilogy, which seemed to be justified upon his return in the Mandalorian. So for things to turn into a total 180 with mostly bland and boring scenes ruffles a lot of people's feathers. I'm not one for excessive fanservice, but the show seems to actively go out of its way to make Boba seem incompetent, especially compared to Fennec.
I'm sure people would be more forgiving and willing to turn off their brain if it was a new character rather than an existing legacy character. It mainly follows the same trend of the OT characters like Luke and Han basically having character assassinations.
That is fair. I guess I never really cared one way or the other for Boba Fett. I mean, sure, he looked pretty cool in the original trilogy, but so did the emperor's Imperial Guards (the dudes in the red cloaks) and they never amounted to anything.
So, I think I have a lot more tolerance for him basically being just some pretty decent fighter dude with a great reputation turned wanna-be crimelord after going through the storyline of "Dances With Wolves".
leerm02 wrote: That is fair. I guess I never really cared one way or the other for Boba Fett. I mean, sure, he looked pretty cool in the original trilogy, but so did the emperor's Imperial Guards (the dudes in the red cloaks) and they never amounted to anything.
So, I think I have a lot more tolerance for him basically being just some pretty decent fighter dude with a great reputation turned wanna-be crimelord after going through the storyline of "Dances With Wolves".
You know, that perfectly normal storyline ;-)
I wish they at least let him keep a Tusken raider posse instead of the Mos Espa Vespa gang, at least he would have a crew that's somewhat intimidating.
Grimskul wrote: I'm glad you're able to enjoy it, but I think a lot of the reason why people can't is because it's entire premise is based around a character that has fandom reputation and mythos of being a badass due to the expanded universe and just his mystery in the original trilogy, which seemed to be justified upon his return in the Mandalorian. So for things to turn into a total 180 with mostly bland and boring scenes ruffles a lot of people's feathers. I'm not one for excessive fanservice, but the show seems to actively go out of its way to make Boba seem incompetent, especially compared to Fennec.
I'm sure people would be more forgiving and willing to turn off their brain if it was a new character rather than an existing legacy character. It mainly follows the same trend of the OT characters like Luke and Han basically having character assassinations.
For what it's worth, I'm not particularly attached to the EU version of Boba as a badass, and I've mentioned elsewhere before that I would have been just as happy if Disney had gone with the precedence set by the original movies and the Clone Wars cartoon of the him being a bit of a try-hard with an undeserved reputation thanks to Daddy's armour and being in the right place at the right time... So it's not the characterisation that I find fault with (although I wish he wouldn't talk so much... an opinion apparently shared by Morrison).
But even as someone who will happily consume pretty much anything Star Wars related and enjoy it, this series (or at least the 'present day' portion of it) is just dull. Whether or not he's a badass, have him actually do something aside from wander aimlessly around Tattoine telling people who he is and hoping they'll give him money.
Grimskul wrote: I'm glad you're able to enjoy it, but I think a lot of the reason why people can't is because it's entire premise is based around a character that has fandom reputation and mythos of being a badass due to the expanded universe and just his mystery in the original trilogy, which seemed to be justified upon his return in the Mandalorian. So for things to turn into a total 180 with mostly bland and boring scenes ruffles a lot of people's feathers. I'm not one for excessive fanservice, but the show seems to actively go out of its way to make Boba seem incompetent, especially compared to Fennec.
I'm sure people would be more forgiving and willing to turn off their brain if it was a new character rather than an existing legacy character. It mainly follows the same trend of the OT characters like Luke and Han basically having character assassinations.
For what it's worth, I'm not particularly attached to the EU version of Boba as a badass, and I've mentioned elsewhere before that I would have been just as happy if Disney had gone with the precedence set by the original movies and the Clone Wars cartoon of the him being a bit of a try-hard with an undeserved reputation thanks to Daddy's armour and being in the right place at the right time... So it's not the characterisation that I find fault with (although I wish he wouldn't talk so much... an opinion apparently shared by Morrison).
But even as someone who will happily consume pretty much anything Star Wars related and enjoy it, this series (or at least the 'present day' portion of it) is just dull. Whether or not he's a badass, have him actually do something aside from wander aimlessly around Tattoine telling people who he is and hoping they'll give him money.
Yeah, I think you've nailed the biggest problem of the show, and its on the sin of it being boring. Fett does basically go about asking for handouts for whatever reason, he'd probably have more luck doing that on other planets than a place like Tatooine.
So having watched the first three episodes, I'm kind of confused.
I thought this was supposed to be a show about Boba Fett being a crime lord.
Instead it's like someone made a Dances with Wolves remake and a really gakky crime drama filled with people who don't know how to crime and decided to make some TV episodes that bounce back and forth between both movies for no reason.
The whole plot in Mos Espa is especially weird. Like the Dances with Wolves stuff with the Tuskans is okay and mostly ruined by the split focus (though I'll point out it's so insanely derivative of Dances with Wolves it's more surprising for how unoriginal is than anything else). The Mos Espa plot is bizarre and underdeveloped. It seems filled with people acting like they're in a show about criminals but none of whom know how being a criminal works.
And that's just really weird because Boba worked for criminals and in the underworld for an entire career. How does he not know how this works? His character is entirely too old to be acting so naive and not come off as a total moron.
Even if you decide not to continue watching (perfectly valid choice as I agree that it's been at best meh overall), definitely watch the latest episode (5?). It's pretty much a stand alone prologue to the next season of mando and Boba doesn't even show up except in the previous episode recap.
I'll keep watching cause it's not so bad that I want to drop it.
It's just kind of surprising that the show is so... All over the place and not particularly good? It's quite surprising actually. I didn't like the Bad Batch for many of the same reasons. Most of the first three episodes feel like stuff happens because there's a show and they need stuff to happen. There's a disconnect between what is happening on screen and any sense of weight that the events matter.
A show about Boba Fett feels like it should be easy even if it were mediocre but even setting aside the years of fan build up around the character, this character doesn't act like a professional bounty hunter. He acts like a much younger man with far less experience and far too much naivite. Ezta Bridger and Ashoka when they first appeared were more competent than this and that's saying something.
EDIT: And then you get to episode 4, which continues the story's bizarre split-plot with a massive timeline issue (the events of the flashback seem insufficient to cover the 10-15 years between RotJ and Mandalorian) but this feels like it's where the series should have started except Boba continues to be a bit too naive and incompetent for his apparent reputation. Still, the actual balance feels a bit better before basically going back to continuing to be a show bizarrely about a wacky old guy who should probably retire and stop trying to be a main character XD Watching him talk about how he's smarter than his former employers is just kind of laughable after the first three episodes of this show.
the events of the flashback seem insufficient to cover the 10-15 years between RotJ and Mandalorian)
Its actually 5 years, but yeah. Nothing shows it, and its quite a surprise when the characters simply tell the audience how long it has been. I had figured a month, at the absolute outside. Enough to kinda-sorta recover, fetch a stick and train his train raiders.
There's nothing in between the train and him demanding tolls for crossing the Dune Sea, but somehow there are years in there. You'd think the local fish-crime rep wouldn't even know who he was at that point- just vaguely remember hearing about an incident that never repeated.
5 yeas. Think I was thinking of the sequels for a second?
Episode 5 is good but it's weird how much better it is and makes me wonder if anyone really wanted to do this whole Boba Fett season thing. It all feels so 'we need a show so here's some stuff' and none of it is really well thought out. You're really telling me this outlaw criminal palace has a hangar containing valuable spacecraft, and the door is opened and closed by a deadweight. I know the Star Wars universe is very analog but that feels so contrived, like it was thought up in five minutes in the boardroom because they wanted Boba and Fen to get out and no one bothered to think of anything better.
Djinn showing up and being fun to watch is so a radical contrast to how uninterested Boba's entire deal is.
It's not like the show runners don't know how to establish stakes either. Mandalorian Season 2 resolved the shows original plot but this one episode immediately gives Mando compelling problems anew in about 20 minutes.
In more ways than one I'm still not really sure what Boba is about or trying to do. His reason is given. It's just kind of hard to take seriously.
I had assumed that Boba had been in the Sarlacc for several years before escaping.
I know that sounds daft, but the Sarlacc extends the torment of those it eats by keeping them alive while it digests them? That's why it's meant to be such a horrible death.
It even absorbs their consciousness, and after death still continues to torment them.
Geifer wrote: He was in it for days at most. The marshal from the Mandalorian got his armor days after the mercs crashed his End of Empire party, and the Battle of Endor was only a short time after Jabba's death.
He's lived most of those five years with the Tusken.
Also, who knows how long he had the Delirium Lizard in his head. He certainly didn't go to the nearest DIY store for his piece of wood.
There's a lot of room in the timeline between Return of the Jedi and Mandalorian/Book of Boba that Lucasfilm could fill in the future if they so chose, but Boba's stay in the Sarlacc isn't one of them. That is very explicitly answered already.
LordofHats wrote: 5 yeas. Think I was thinking of the sequels for a second?
Episode 5 is good but it's weird how much better it is and makes me wonder if anyone really wanted to do this whole Boba Fett season thing. It all feels so 'we need a show so here's some stuff' and none of it is really well thought out. You're really telling me this outlaw criminal palace has a hangar containing valuable spacecraft, and the door is opened and closed by a deadweight. I know the Star Wars universe is very analog but that feels so contrived, like it was thought up in five minutes in the boardroom because they wanted Boba and Fen to get out and no one bothered to think of anything better.
Djinn showing up and being fun to watch is so a radical contrast to how uninterested Boba's entire deal is.
It's not like the show runners don't know how to establish stakes either. Mandalorian Season 2 resolved the shows original plot but this one episode immediately gives Mando compelling problems anew in about 20 minutes.
In more ways than one I'm still not really sure what Boba is about or trying to do. His reason is given. It's just kind of hard to take seriously.
I kind of wonder, had the whole Cara Dune fiasco not happened and they'd gone with Bo Katan from the start if we would have been better off just renaming the story "The Mandalorians" and followed Boba and Bo as parallel threads rather than try to set up entire new shows.
LordofHats wrote: In more ways than one I'm still not really sure what Boba is about or trying to do. His reason is given. It's just kind of hard to take seriously.
Metaphorical 'vegan' crime lording is inherently hard to take seriously.
Especially when we the audience and multiple galaxy spanning criminal cartels know he's just a guy with no infrastructure, organization or backing. They even know he sleeps in a bacta tank in front of exterior windows. Which makes for a real easy murder, providing you don't send in an idiot with stun knuckles.
Reasonably he'd be dead multiple times over (not even including the Sarlaac, being dragged across the desert, beaten, exhausted, beaten again and tied out for the sun, and then sand monsters); but the plot armor is still at 100% and not even pretending to take any threat seriously. No stakes and no risk (and no crime) makes for a bad crime lord show.
That he makes Luke at the beginning of New Hope look worldly and experienced is just a baffling choice.
I agree with Voss. One of the many things I don't understand about Fett is why nobody has successfully taken him out yet, other than the aforementioned plot armour. Unlike the other crime lords he has no network, no deep ties to other organisations, no alliances to speak of. Anyone offing Fett would literally incur the wrath of a single assassin who spends most of her time walking along beside him and would therefore be caught in the blast of whatever mini rocket launcher any competent assassin would use to defeat his beskar armour.
He seems to have no plan, is outwitted by demonstrably incompetent characters like the mayor's lackey, and hasn't actually done anything important in the present-day timeline in the entirety of the season. So far Fett's achievements in the whole of the season amount to crawling out of the Sarlaac and one completely pointless train heist. Neither of those things are happening in the present-day timeline of the series so it all just feels kind of...pointless and empty.
like i said, they managed to move Djinn's story futher forward in 1 episode, than they managed with Fett in 4 episodes.
now, in absolute fairness, I will cut them some slack for the first and second episodes, because they needed to answer to obvious questions and set up the new series and enemies, and that sort of exposition, while necessary, is slow and tedious. I think the intercutting between present and past might have been a mistake, and made it feel like nothing was happening as both story threads seemed to move slow. Maybe a more "active" recounting would have worked better, with fett acting as a narrator, telling his story to his guests at the feast in episode 4?
either way, the show seems very slow, with no great direction. its not clear what Fetts problem is with the spice runners of the Pyke Syndicate, beyond a vague feeling they double crossed him in the past*, or a generic "drugs are bad, m'kay?".
*which they didn't. they objected to paying protection money to two organisations for the same area, and told fett he needed to deal with the rival bike gang before they paid him...and the bike gang wiped out the tuskens, and he gunned down the bikers in return, so im not sure what his beef is with the pykes.
*which they didn't. they objected to paying protection money to two organisations for the same area, and told fett he needed to deal with the rival bike gang before they paid him...and the bike gang wiped out the tuskens, and he gunned down the bikers in return, so im not sure what his beef is with the pykes.
Well, Boba is happily not quite so naive that he didn't manage to read between the lines on this- the Pykes very obviously paid the biker gang to kill the Tuskens. That was the 'protection' they paid for, since the Tuskens had taken a train and the bikers never had. (because they weren't stupid enough to take on one of the major players of galactic crime. Seriously, the Hutts backed down from a major war with the Pykes over Tattooine. Maybe it wasn't worth it to them, but they just noped out of there without a fight, more concerned with not getting involved than the loss of face or reputation for backing down).
Slipspace wrote: I agree with Voss. One of the many things I don't understand about Fett is why nobody has successfully taken him out yet, other than the aforementioned plot armour. Unlike the other crime lords he has no network, no deep ties to other organisations, no alliances to speak of. Anyone offing Fett would literally incur the wrath of a single assassin who spends most of her time walking along beside him and would therefore be caught in the blast of whatever mini rocket launcher any competent assassin would use to defeat his beskar armour.
He seems to have no plan, is outwitted by demonstrably incompetent characters like the mayor's lackey, and hasn't actually done anything important in the present-day timeline in the entirety of the season. So far Fett's achievements in the whole of the season amount to crawling out of the Sarlaac and one completely pointless train heist. Neither of those things are happening in the present-day timeline of the series so it all just feels kind of...pointless and empty.
This is why I say the Mos Espa storyline feels really underdeveloped. So much time is spent on the Dances with Tuskans flashbacks that the only thing about it that stands out to me are the painfully out of place Cyberpunk 2077 ads playing the role of henchmen who are entirely too colorful and put together for how grungy the rest of the show is. That I'm half convinced they'll star in their own spinoff show at some point just makes their presence nausious.
Having sat on it for a night the cardinal sin of the show really is that it's 5 episodes in and it feels like everything of relevance or interest could have been condensed down to two episodes and episode 5 is one of them.
In this case brevity isn't just the soul of wit, its absence is the death of interest. They really didn't need to give us a full remake of Dances with Wolves that is both worse than the original and stands out like a painfully sore thumb while watching this show (they even copied the dancing scene XD come on) and so much time was spent on that the actual meat of the show rotted about 40 minutes into the first episode and began stinking up the place 5 minutes into the second. Maybe things will get spicer and more fun now that it seems to be over and we're looking at a Djinn/Boba team up but that won't really change that the first 4 episodes of this show could probably be skipped without missing a thing worth watching. Just start the show at episode 5 and go.
What I find curious is that they dedicated an entire episode to Din, but didn't figure leading with a present day episode or two to establish the plot, stakes and possibly a plan, and then having a dedicated Tusken episode to explain that part of Boba's story. Say, Boba does his thing as crime boss, sets up his operation, gets injured at the end of the second episode and put in a bacta tank. Episode 3 starts with him in the tank, narrator's voice saying something about the dreams being back, and then showing the Tusken stuff.
Clearly they are not opposed to throwing in a whole episode that has no immediate impact on the present day crime story, but they went for the... exotically paced structure of the first few episode instead.
Interweaving the past and present storylines was definitely a big pacing problem in the early episodes. Not enough happened in either timeline to grab my interest and there wasn't enough connection between the two either. If events in the Tusken plot were directly affecting multiple things in the present-day plot that would have been fine, but instead it was all just set-up for the Pyke hatred.
One minor nitpick from the previous non-Mando episode that annoyed me was Boba going looking for his armour in the Sarlaac pit. Like, I get that he was completely out of it when he crawled out and the Jawas stole his armour but I'm legitimately confused as to why he thinks it's still in the pit. What does he think the chain of events were for getting out? Get eaten > armour protects from Sarlaac digestion > take off armour > get out of Sarlaac? Like, how does that even work? Or does he think he escaped and then the Sarlaac selectively removed only his armour and ate it again? Even if he thinks it's still down there, how does hovering a few feet from the entrance to the mouth help his cause? It's yet another example of Boba seeming like a complete idiot and this time the only purpose seemed to be to give us the spectacle of dropping a seismic charge into the mouth.
Slipspace wrote: Interweaving the past and present storylines was definitely a big pacing problem in the early episodes. Not enough happened in either timeline to grab my interest and there wasn't enough connection between the two either. If events in the Tusken plot were directly affecting multiple things in the present-day plot that would have been fine, but instead it was all just set-up for the Pyke hatred.
One minor nitpick from the previous non-Mando episode that annoyed me was Boba going looking for his armour in the Sarlaac pit. Like, I get that he was completely out of it when he crawled out and the Jawas stole his armour but I'm legitimately confused as to why he thinks it's still in the pit. What does he think the chain of events were for getting out? Get eaten > armour protects from Sarlaac digestion > take off armour > get out of Sarlaac? Like, how does that even work? Or does he think he escaped and then the Sarlaac selectively removed only his armour and ate it again? Even if he thinks it's still down there, how does hovering a few feet from the entrance to the mouth help his cause? It's yet another example of Boba seeming like a complete idiot and this time the only purpose seemed to be to give us the spectacle of dropping a seismic charge into the mouth.
my guess is he knew he went [i]into the sarlacc with the armour, but doesnt remember his escape at all (he was in pretty bad shape by the end of it, not impossible he was cant remember what he did during it), and form his point of view he "woke up" as a captive of the tuskans with no armour. He also presumably found out they found him like that, once he mastered their language, so his logic must have been it was still in the sarlacc.
AduroT wrote: How did he find out Din had it and know where to go looking for him on an obscure planet?
Boba was there when Din left Mos Pelgo after the dragon hunt. He may have figured it out from there. Din heading towards Mos Eisley, clearly Mandalorian, possibly bounty hunter. Can't be hard to find information on him there. Mandalorians stand out and tend not to fly coach (which, ironically, he did in the last episode). Mos Eisley has central flight control. Boba could have bribed someone for a list of landings and takeoffs during that time. He could have just sent in Fennec covertly to retrieve that kind of information, what with her being competent and all. He'd find the hangar with the mechanic lady and bribe her for information. He'd have the ship signature, know Din's a bounty hunter, may know he's looking for Mandalorians. That's not a bad start to go looking for Din in the Outer Rim. At least with the level of competence and connections we assumed of Boba prior to shooting Bib.
Appearing on Tython is a leap. I don't think Ahsoka disclosed the location to anyone but Din and she might be disinclined to share it with a) a bounty hunter, b) the guy who almost blew up her master way back when and c) the same guy who might now put Grogu's life in jeopardy in pursuit of his goals.
Clearly they are not opposed to throwing in a whole episode that has no immediate impact on the present day crime story, but they went for the... exotically paced structure of the first few episode instead.
A lot of people said the same thing about Season 1 of The Witcher.
Of course, I feel like that was the only thing that elevated The Witcher above mediocre Fantasy and Season 2 was worse off without it. However, I recognize that is a minority opinion.
Book was probably trying to use some sort of gimmick to raise the source material beyond its pedestrian narration, and this one seemed like a "current" idea thanks to The Witcher's "success".
I'm not interested in the Witcher so the comparison escapes me, but I considered the possibility that someone was going for avant-garde artsy bs with the structure of Book of Boba.
It'll be interesting to see how the whole thing looks once I got to see it in full. In fact I think I'll still not have a final opinion until I binged it. I'm getting the impression there's a creative desire to arrange these shows around the modern standard for watching, while the commercial interest is to draw the first showing out in the more traditional way for extra monies*. I've had a much better impression of the Bad Batch as well after the second time. It appeared a lot more cohesive. I'm expecting the same for Book of Boba. Or, I guess, I'm at least hoping for it.
*Eventually that won't matter. It's just the original release and its audience that are affected.
Geifer wrote: I'm not interested in the Witcher so the comparison escapes me, but I considered the possibility that someone was going for avant-garde artsy bs with the structure of Book of Boba.
.
the witcher told its story in a very non-chronological order, with past events being shown as they became relevant to the "Present" plot, but this wasn't 100% apparent and never "title carded", but rather inferred form clues in the scenes (for example, one character is interacting with a old man who is king, the other is interacting with father of that old man, who is a child), at least for the first several episodes. it was much more subtle than the "long shot of boda in bacta, fade to the past" transitions of the Book.
AduroT wrote: How did he find out Din had it and know where to go looking for him on an obscure planet?
That's for season 2 flashbacks, I'm guessing
I suspect that he heard of the marshal with Mandalorian armour the same as Din did and was heading to retrieve it just in time to see Din making off with it, and tracked him from there.
The episode may have very little Boba Fett, but it really was peak Star Wars. Did 5 and 6 have a different writer than the first 4? Are they on the record somewhere saying they just don’t like Boba? Boba’s showing is just so poor in his own series, but these last two episodes display that they can do interesting and compelling stuff. It almost feels like intentional character assassination.
To be fair, they’re struggling against the adage of Never Meet Your Heroes.
See, canonical Boba is…pretty sparse. We know his origins, and some of the more dull Clone Wars episodes. Then we’re onto the original trilogy where he looks at the camera (ANH), growls a bit and nicks off with Han (ESB), then gets knocked into the Sarlacc (ROTJ).
But, [i]Legends-/i] Boba was of course far more than that. And that I think is an issue. The fans more than the universe built up a mythical Boba. So when we see Fresh Page Boba (finding a sense of belonging, finding his place in a changed galaxy) etc, it’s gonna feel a bit disappointing to those steeped in Legends.
Note that I’m not having a pop or criticising those who became invested in Legends Boba. But I think it is something we need to keep in mind.
I’m suspecting this is a hurdle the snow won’t in the end cross.
And in terms of the New Canon, I think Boba is the first to really get this treatment? The others we see are either core characters (Luke) or Filoni’s own creations. Filoni’s creations of course are his. He invented them, he knows them better than anyone. And not really appearing in Legends, they don’t have the Baggage of Expectation Boba is lumbered with.
I never read any of the Legends or old EU stuff. Been reading the current Marvel comics, which I believe are supposed to be canon now. He’s shown up in there, and generally been fairly competent. He did lose carbonite Han on the way to Jaba’s, and that started a whole huge crossover event, but of course he managed to steal him back in the end beating out all the other major players. But yeah, I’m not really invested in Boba with much preconceptions, hes just really dull in the show.
AduroT wrote: The episode may have very little Boba Fett, but it really was peak Star Wars. Did 5 and 6 have a different writer than the first 4? Are they on the record somewhere saying they just don’t like Boba? Boba’s showing is just so poor in his own series, but these last two episodes display that they can do interesting and compelling stuff. It almost feels like intentional character assassination.
I think part of the issue here is that people keep looking at this as if this stuff is all separated.
It's not.
I think Dave and Jon are mixing the shows doing what they can do with what Disney is giving them to tell a huge and grand story, which involves all the characters. I do understand that folks want specific things, they want to see the Boba of Empire Strikes Back, but my feeling is that he's dead. They're reinventing the character and it's going to take time. I would be willing to bet we will see a lot of him in Mando-S3, and of course the continuation of his show. Of course only time will tell, but god this has been so much better than that dumpster fire that was the new trilogy from a few years back.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: To be fair, they’re struggling against the adage of Never Meet Your Heroes.
See, canonical Boba is…pretty sparse. We know his origins, and some of the more dull Clone Wars episodes. Then we’re onto the original trilogy where he looks at the camera (ANH), growls a bit and nicks off with Han (ESB), then gets knocked into the Sarlacc (ROTJ).
But, [i]Legends-/i] Boba was of course far more than that. And that I think is an issue. The fans more than the universe built up a mythical Boba. So when we see Fresh Page Boba (finding a sense of belonging, finding his place in a changed galaxy) etc, it’s gonna feel a bit disappointing to those steeped in Legends.
Note that I’m not having a pop or criticising those who became invested in Legends Boba. But I think it is something we need to keep in mind.
I’m suspecting this is a hurdle the snow won’t in the end cross.
And in terms of the New Canon, I think Boba is the first to really get this treatment? The others we see are either core characters (Luke) or Filoni’s own creations. Filoni’s creations of course are his. He invented them, he knows them better than anyone. And not really appearing in Legends, they don’t have the Baggage of Expectation Boba is lumbered with.
With Cad Bane back (minus silly flying boots, thankfully), I wonder if we’ll get a flash back to the uncompleted “this is how Boba’s helmet got dented” story.
Will we see rivalry or friendship between them? The know each other, but both are professionals, so who knows. But I strongly suspect Bane won’t end up dead here. He’s too big a name for such short shrift. But then, relative shock factor I guess.
The killing/shooting of Cobb Vanth is…interesting. He means nothing to Boba Fett, but had some kind of friendship with Dinn. Personally, I’m not at all convinced Vanth is dead. Note that he was shot only once, whereas the deputy was shot multiple times. I’ll need to rewatch it to see where Vanth was hit, but if as I kind of remember it being a gut shot, there’s gonna be medical aid on hand - and possibly a trip to Boba’s Bacta Tank.
Yeah, the one vs many and everyone crowding around getting handsy afterward I figure we’ll see more of them. That’s Why we had the red shirt, to be the sacrificial one.
Well... that was something. Turns out that the best episodes of The Book of Boba Fett are the ones where he's either not in it, or just says and does nothing. Who knew?
Ok, spoiler time...
Spoiler:
So, we'll get to the thing at the end, but for now I can say I was happy to see Luke and Ahsoka again. Weirdly enough that puts 2 of my top 3 Star Wars characters on screen, at the same time, for the first time. Only reason it can't be all 3 at once is because, well, Vader is dead!
Quite a lot of fun seeing Baby Yoda's training, especially him dealing with the remote. He's now super-duper flippy-dippy Baby Yoda. I hope we see more of that and that he chooses the sabre. My only query about that though is, where did Luke get a hold of Yoda's lightsaber???
Anyway. The thing. I thought reintroducing Cob was a nice touch, and it makes sense that Mando would go looking for him. What I was not expecting was that ending. Basically, pretty much out loud to myself, much as I did when Moff Gideon first produced the Darksaber, it was like this:
Hmm... we're sticking with Cobb. Oh, there's someone coming into town. I wonder who that is? Well the episode is called 'From the Desert Comes a Stranger', I guess that applies to... he's in all black? Is... is that a rimmed hat? *sudden realisation dawns on me* OH GOD! OH GOD! OH GOD! IT'S BANE. THEY'RE ALL DEAD. THEY'RE ALL DEAD!
Yeah, so, Cad Bane, in the flesh (so to speak). With the original voice actor as well. Very pleased. Very happy. Wonderful character to bring into it. Even if The Book of Boba Fett is a gak series with ineffectual characters, a scarcest hint of an actual story, a lead that hasn't really done anything, and that clearly hasn't figured out what it's about, so much so that it had to deviate into being different shows at the end, it it chose to have some crazy cool moments in its final episodes.
there’s No Way he chooses the Saber. All the effort of the Grogu dome, the chainmail, it would all be for naught. Plus there’s no way that puppet can convincingly wield one. They’d have to go full cgi with a sudden stark change in Grogu’s range of movement and dexterity. He’s just Way too stiff otherwise.
Note that I’m not having a pop or criticising those who became invested in Legends Boba. But I think it is something we need to keep in mind.
Meh. I don't give a feth about Legends Boba. I don't even like the cult that popped up around Movie Boba. This is just been a gakky attempt at a character show.
Togusa wrote:I think part of the issue here is that people keep looking at this as if this stuff is all separated.
It's not.
You've got it backwards. It _should_ be separated. Its a big galaxy- a 'wide world existing in balance' as this episode says. But the show limits it to a gakky little neighborhood with the same people over and over again.
@AduroT-
Nope. Same writer Favreau supposedly wrote them all (though Filoni helped on 6, apparently)
----
Episode itself---
yawn. Crime lording set aside yet again, this time for the same old boring Jedi gak...
Spoiler:
with the same false choices. Glad to see Luke didn't learn anything.
The most entertaining parts were watching Luke's CGI slip off when the actor moved too much. Totally different face under there.
The ant-droids were an interesting concept, but seemed out of place as workers building a Jedi academy for Luke.
They _really_ need to give Grogu a voice. Luke's approach seemed more like breaking a foal to harness than training a student. Not for any terrible reason, but the lack of a voice (or any other communication skill, like signs or writing) makes it seem that Grogu doesn't have the ability to comprehend the concepts and choices he's being confronted with, and asked to deal with
Ahsoka and Luke had a weird dynamic. Even if Rosario looks nothing like her, its still too easy to think of her as a kid. Not the older advisor to a still-pretty-young Luke.
Second half was... better.
On the Marshal
Spoiler:
subtitles on makes it interesting. As they cut away someone says 'Something's wrong with the Marshal,' which is a stupid line since he's been shot, but it definitely implies he's alive.
But despite Din showing up, the fascinating part is this happened because of the Marshal's own actions- Seeing the Pykes off amongst the moisture vaporators.
Second favorite episode so far for me. Also, I'm sure purely coincidently it's also the second least Boba filled episode of his titular show. Luke's de-aging CGI has significantly improved since Mando s2's finale.
I do enjoy watching the youthification software improve in relative real time.
From Rogue One to this episode you can see clear improvements.
It’s not exactly out of uncanny valley, but it’s definitely less noticeable.
I’m still dubious about reports of studios making new “James Dean” movies etc, which I consider to be ghoulish and exploitative. Recreating a deceased actors likeness for something like Tarkin is a bit different, as they originally played that character and the remaining family gave their blessing. Likewise using it to put Leia in RoS. But making whole new movies is just….too creepy for me.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also….more speculation.
Spoiler:
Funny how just as things kick off on Tattooine? We see Grogu given a choice between family or training.
What’s the betting that, picking the Beskar, Luke takes the wee dude to Tattooine, and helps save the day?
Good episode, things are finally picking up and Boba and Fennek had almost no screen time. I see a pattern here.
Spoiler:
Cad Bane was a total curve ball, but he will introduce some much needed tension and well...violence into what seemed mostly like a soap opera until now. I thought his mouth was particularly well done, even though it's quite the departure from the clone wars animation.
I'm also pleasantly surprised about fake Luke. It's not perfect by all means, but at this point it's good enough for me. Lip synch was a bit off at times, so they need to keep an eye out for that, but otherwise the parts with Grogu and Luke had me grinning like an idiot.
I'd be down for more of it, but my bets are on Grogu taking the mail, considering its worth is greater than the value of the shire. Jokes aside, and that's my only complaint this time around, they could've done anything else with that beskar and it would've been a better choice. If they have the audacity to have Grogu shot and surviving because of that thing, I will have to smash something with a hammer.
Does his football head even fit through the hole? *grumpy old people noises*
Despite their valiant efforts Boba’s efforts fail, and all the main named dudes are captured/cornered. Their execution is imminent. Suddenly there’s a commotion from outside, sounds of a fight and Pykes screaming. Silence. A shadow fills the doorway. The Pykes inside tremble and brace from fear. The mysterious figure approaches, and as they do so the shadow shrinks down until it is revealed as none other than Grogu alone. The Pykes visibly relax and even chuckle at the appearance of this tiny child. Then Grogu sees the injured Din, and the Pykes aren’t laughing anymore. They’re never doing much of anything ever again.
Probably more likely than Boba himself doing anything of note. I think we've seen more satisfying crime lord action from him in the post credits Mando s2 scene than in his own show over a half dozen episodes.
there’s No Way he chooses the Saber. All the effort of the Grogu dome, the chainmail, it would all be for naught. Plus there’s no way that puppet can convincingly wield one. They’d have to go full cgi with a sudden stark change in Grogu’s range of movement and dexterity. He’s just Way too stiff otherwise.
Further on this...
Spoiler:
Yeah, its too telegraphed into the show's setup. But also, consider the Training Remote. We've generally seen it being used for lightsaber training, with little pew-pew deflection noises. Luke was using it to train Grogu in dodging, but it ended with the little dude eviscerating its mechanisms directly with the Force. Luke bizarrely doesn't really react to that (he seems too lost in his own head, with his mind not on what he was doing... ie training his first apprentice).
The Force, for Grogu, seems all about desire. What he wants (to eat) and what he wants to stop (anything that threatens him or anyone he cares about, which so far is just Mando)
there’s No Way he chooses the Saber. All the effort of the Grogu dome, the chainmail, it would all be for naught. Plus there’s no way that puppet can convincingly wield one. They’d have to go full cgi with a sudden stark change in Grogu’s range of movement and dexterity. He’s just Way too stiff otherwise.
Further on this...
Spoiler:
Yeah, its too telegraphed into the show's setup. But also, consider the Training Remote. We've generally seen it being used for lightsaber training, with little pew-pew deflection noises. Luke was using it to train Grogu in dodging, but it ended with the little dude eviscerating its mechanisms directly with the Force. Luke bizarrely doesn't really react to that (he seems too lost in his own head, with his mind not on what he was doing... ie training his first apprentice).
The Force, for Grogu, seems all about desire. What he wants (to eat) and what he wants to stop (anything that threatens him or anyone he cares about, which so far is just Mando)
to carry on the spoilered convo
Spoiler:
for all his skill as a force user, we must remember that gorgu is still, by the reckoning of his own race and human standards, a child. he has a childish understanding of things. its hard to judge the apparent mental age he is, since he cant talk and clearly express concepts, but he's able to follow and understand spoken english pretty well (at least when it suits him). we know that anakin was "too old" at 9, so we can infer he must be effectively "younger" than that. the younglings in the temple seemed to be about 5-7, so maybe that mental age range?
Either way, hes far to young to be anything other self-centred and about desire. i mean, how many 7 year olds would say no to a gift? almost none, at least unless they percieved some strings attached.
but i agree he's very likely to opt for the armour. theirs too much build-up for it to be otherwise, so he'll be Djinns partner in the N-1 for mando season 3.
I agree the face changing tech is getting better at a frankly frightening pace. how long before we get to doing this in semi-realtime? how long before we get to the point of not being able to trust video feeds anymore because of the chance of manipulation?
Anyway, the current limits on the tech are forcing "Luke" into somewhat passive role, which actually kinda suits him now hes moving into becoming a "master" of his own.
there’s No Way he chooses the Saber. All the effort of the Grogu dome, the chainmail, it would all be for naught. Plus there’s no way that puppet can convincingly wield one. They’d have to go full cgi with a sudden stark change in Grogu’s range of movement and dexterity. He’s just Way too stiff otherwise.
Further on this...
Spoiler:
Yeah, its too telegraphed into the show's setup. But also, consider the Training Remote. We've generally seen it being used for lightsaber training, with little pew-pew deflection noises. Luke was using it to train Grogu in dodging, but it ended with the little dude eviscerating its mechanisms directly with the Force. Luke bizarrely doesn't really react to that (he seems too lost in his own head, with his mind not on what he was doing... ie training his first apprentice).
The Force, for Grogu, seems all about desire. What he wants (to eat) and what he wants to stop (anything that threatens him or anyone he cares about, which so far is just Mando)
to carry on the spoilered convo
Spoiler:
for all his skill as a force user, we must remember that gorgu is still, by the reckoning of his own race and human standards, a child. he has a childish understanding of things. its hard to judge the apparent mental age he is, since he cant talk and clearly express concepts, but he's able to follow and understand spoken english pretty well (at least when it suits him). we know that anakin was "too old" at 9, so we can infer he must be effectively "younger" than that. the younglings in the temple seemed to be about 5-7, so maybe that mental age range?
Either way, hes far to young to be anything other self-centred and about desire. i mean, how many 7 year olds would say no to a gift? almost none, at least unless they percieved some strings attached.
but i agree he's very likely to opt for the armour. theirs too much build-up for it to be otherwise, so he'll be Djinns partner in the N-1 for mando season 3.
I agree the face changing tech is getting better at a frankly frightening pace. how long before we get to doing this in semi-realtime? how long before we get to the point of not being able to trust video feeds anymore because of the chance of manipulation?
Anyway, the current limits on the tech are forcing "Luke" into somewhat passive role, which actually kinda suits him now hes moving into becoming a "master" of his own.
Spoiler:
Keep in mind he was taken in before the Empire was even founded, and we don’t know for how long. Kid’s likely Way stronger than we’ve already seen. Luke said he wasn’t teaching him, just helping him to remember his previous training. And that flashback? He most likely saved himself, plastering clones across the hallway walls. The violence of it frightening himself and giving him ptsd memory block. Didn’t Ahsoka say she sensed darkness in him?
Graphite wrote: Those Jawas got themselves a SERIOUS hood ornament
Spoiler:
You can only choose one
Only the Sith deal in absolutes
You've really got to get out of this way of thinking, Jedi
I really do like how these new shows are making the effort to show these other aliens, that traditionally were just tropes and moving targets as people. In ANH we saw the Tuskens as savages killing for...for something. But here, we've seen they have a pretty complex culture and are highly adaptable. Jawas aren't thieves, they're very resourceful and very good at finding things, even if they do sometimes take it without compensating.
I'm also pleasantly surprised about fake Luke. It's not perfect by all means, but at this point it's good enough for me. Lip synch was a bit off at times, so they need to keep an eye out for that, but otherwise the parts with Grogu and Luke had me grinning like an idiot.
Spoiler:
On the lip synching... Luke's lips moved a little weird at times in Empire and Jedi as well, due to his scar. So I didn't really notice any syncing issues, just the odd moments where the face wasn't quite right. But it's no worse overall than the more active Grogu being increasingly puppet-like, which I can also excuse given that Yoda is equally puppet-ish to watch now.
Despite their valiant efforts Boba’s efforts fail, and all the main named dudes are captured/cornered. Their execution is imminent. Suddenly there’s a commotion from outside, sounds of a fight and Pykes screaming. Silence. A shadow fills the doorway. The Pykes inside tremble and brace from fear. The mysterious figure approaches, and as they do so the shadow shrinks down until it is revealed as none other than Grogu alone. The Pykes visibly relax and even chuckle at the appearance of this tiny child. Then Grogu sees the injured Din, and the Pykes aren’t laughing anymore. They’re never doing much of anything ever again.
So his elite crack squad to take on the Pyke Syndicate amounts to:
Boba "Better when I'm Not Here" Fett Fennec "Let me re-explain the plot" Shand Din "Doing it for Free" Djarin Black "Failed to Kill My Target When He Was Sleeping" Krrsantan ... and special guest stars Sophie "I've Had Maybe Two Lines?" Thatcher and the Mos Espa Vespas!!!
If not for the presence of Mando, I'm pretty sure Cad could take all of them himself.
Is it at all possible that the team didn't want a Boba Fett show, but Disney really did, and since that's what Disney has approved a budget for, Jon and Dave just said hell with it and did the bare minimum to get by, while putting more focus on doing what they really wanted, which was the Mandalorian with Luke and Grogu?
I really feels something like that to be honest. I don't know if it's executive meddling or if halfway into filming they realized they didn't know what to do with Boba. Or maybe they intended for Boba to only be a 3-4 episode deal found it very boring and then decided to add in Mando?
I don't know what happened but there's definitely some behind-the-scenes drama on this one. It's not even up to the same quality as the sequel films honestly. Those are, at their very worst, fun to hate. The first four episodes of this show were just bad and I'd proposed that offensively bad media is better than media so bad you just can't be bothered to care about it. At least the offensively bad stuff gets a reaction and makes you think, even if it's all negative XD
LordofHats wrote: I really feels something like that to be honest. I don't know if it's executive meddling or if halfway into filming they realized they didn't know what to do with Boba. Or maybe they intended for Boba to only be a 3-4 episode deal found it very boring and then decided to add in Mando?
I don't know what happened but there's definitely some behind-the-scenes drama on this one. It's not even up to the same quality as the sequel films honestly. Those are, at their very worst, fun to hate. The first four episodes of this show were just bad and I'd proposed that offensively bad media is better than media so bad you just can't be bothered to care about it. At least the offensively bad stuff gets a reaction and makes you think, even if it's all negative XD
Disclaimer. I thoroughly enjoyed Episodes 1-6 of Book of Boba Fett. So we will have to disagree there.
But these last two episodes have just been top-down bangers in terms of giving me the Star Wars I've wanted to see since I was 11 and had just finished RoTJ.
EDIT
To contradict what I said earlier. If Disney would just handle this like a big show, and do 24-1 HOUR long episodes per season.
Trying to cram massive universe building and character development into 8 episodes at 30-50 minutes randomly per episode just doesn't cut it.
I've noticed the weakest entries to this show were directed by Robert Rodriguez. I don't know if he just sucks or what, most of these episodes were written by Favreau though.
This show has really diverged from what I thought it was going to be, and arguably what it should have been. Granted the last 2 episodes were solid, but I feel like I just watched a series that started as one thing and they threw up their hands and said frack this, this aint working out...bring back what works.
And this really sucks cause of the potential of what could have been. I can't get over the slave 1 basically leaning down and staring into the maw of the sarlacc. It's akin to staring down the barrel of a gun to see if it's loaded, just stupid.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So let me get this stright.
Luke can have Attachments to Han, Leia, his nephew, his teacher....
But Grogu cant have Din?
To be fair, he appears to have ditched them at this point… But yeah, the attachments thing like a lot of Jedi stuff just doesn’t make sense. Like how Only Sith deal in absolutes is itself an absolute statement.
Graphite wrote:Those Jawas got themselves a SERIOUS hood ornament
Spoiler:
You can only choose one
Only the Sith deal in absolutes
You've really got to get out of this way of thinking, Jedi
I did love the pimped sand crawler!
Spoiler:
I’m wondering whether it’s a trap/trick by Luke; a false choice to teach a lesson? I haven’t read any of the old EU, but my impression was that Luke changed the Jedi teachings to recognise that trying to deny all attachment was what led to Anakin’s downfall. And it was Luke’s attachment to his father and sister that allowed him to turn Vader back.”
Togusa wrote:Triple-wrapped Tin-Foil Hat Time:
Is it at all possible that the team didn't want a Boba Fett show, but Disney really did, and since that's what Disney has approved a budget for, Jon and Dave just said hell with it and did the bare minimum to get by, while putting more focus on doing what they really wanted, which was the Mandalorian with Luke and Grogu?
I have to say, the last couple of episodes have felt more like “Tales of the New Republic”. And you know what, I’m fine with that. I don’t think anyone has fully explored what streaming can allow you to do differently with media, but with Mando/BoB and the MCU series, I think Disney are starting to. I would love to see a sandbox series that has a whole stock of characters, organisations and locations that can be used to tell different stories. Call them books, chapters, whatever, but this month Tales of the New Republic is a set of 25 minute wham-bam adventures with Din-Djarin on various bounties. Next month the same show can be a couple of movie length, darker episodes with Ashoka hunting down imperial remnants experimenting to clone Palpatine, etc. etc. Technology like the Volume and the CGI they’ve got can only help this.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So let me get this stright.
Luke can have Attachments to Han, Leia, his nephew, his teacher....
But Grogu cant have Din?
Yeah, it's... weird. Like, Old Jedi would have been "Darth fell to the dark side because of his attachment to Padme!" But, I mean, if you'd just let him have a normal relationship that he wasn't hiding, that's something Palp couldn't have exploited. Hell, they could have gone to the Jedi Academy ATM on Corusant, got some cash and straight up bought his mum. That would have saved a whole world of trouble!
The Jedi seem fine with having friends (even non Jedi) - Obi Wan seems to have pals all over the place. The guy who runs the dinner, for example.
Heck, Alec Guinness' "And he was a good friend" in ANH could retrospectively look like "we kind of screwed this up".
"You must have no attachments" is a way to get weird, broken people.
Heck, Luke's "Oh Noes Ben has the Dark Side choppy choppy wait what am I doing" would likely be avoided and thinking "this is my nephew" before "this is my student"
I wonder if that's what Ashoka meant when she said that he was like his father. There's conflict in Luke between doing what he thinks is right, and doing what he's been told I'd right.
(Also, hope the two of them had plenty of time for a long off screen talk. There are a lot of blanks Ashoka can fill in about Luke's family)
I'm fascinated by how reluctant they are to have a present day Boba in a show named after him, if he appears at all.
I'm enjoying the show but I can't say I understand where they're going with it.
Jadenim wrote: I have to say, the last couple of episodes have felt more like “Tales of the New Republic”. And you know what, I’m fine with that. I don’t think anyone has fully explored what streaming can allow you to do differently with media, but with Mando/BoB and the MCU series, I think Disney are starting to. I would love to see a sandbox series that has a whole stock of characters, organisations and locations that can be used to tell different stories. Call them books, chapters, whatever, but this month Tales of the New Republic is a set of 25 minute wham-bam adventures with Din-Djarin on various bounties. Next month the same show can be a couple of movie length, darker episodes with Ashoka hunting down imperial remnants experimenting to clone Palpatine, etc. etc. Technology like the Volume and the CGI they’ve got can only help this.
A dedicated anthology show would be cool not the least because they could fill the huge blank space that is the New Republic. I'm interested in seeing it on screen, but I have a feeling they're reluctant to leave the Outer Rim's proven setting for the center of politics because, well, I seem to remember that wasn't all that well received when Lucas did it. With an anthology show they can have lots of space adventures as the main theme but occasionally branch out into different genres.
Graphite wrote: Yeah, it's... weird. Like, Old Jedi would have been "Darth fell to the dark side because of his attachment to Padme!" But, I mean, if you'd just let him have a normal relationship that he wasn't hiding, that's something Palp couldn't have exploited. Hell, they could have gone to the Jedi Academy ATM on Corusant, got some cash and straight up bought his mum. That would have saved a whole world of trouble!
The Jedi seem fine with having friends (even non Jedi) - Obi Wan seems to have pals all over the place. The guy who runs the dinner, for example.
Heck, Alec Guinness' "And he was a good friend" in ANH could retrospectively look like "we kind of screwed this up".
"You must have no attachments" is a way to get weird, broken people.
Heck, Luke's "Oh Noes Ben has the Dark Side choppy choppy wait what am I doing" would likely be avoided and thinking "this is my nephew" before "this is my student"
I wonder if that's what Ashoka meant when she said that he was like his father. There's conflict in Luke between doing what he thinks is right, and doing what he's been told I'd right.
(Also, hope the two of them had plenty of time for a long off screen talk. There are a lot of blanks Ashoka can fill in about Luke's family)
Part of the issue is Star Wars, and Lucas', insistence on tin can philosophy. The EU, for all its flaws, tried to flesh this gak out and create something with more depth. For whatever reason (well not whatever reason Lucas just wasn't that bright IMO) the official media tends to insist on the Jedi being these wise old guys who say wise old guy things but there's no consistency to a lot of it. It's all incoherent platitudes that form the pastiche of a philosophy rather than an actual philosophy that the story can work with. Virtually all Star Wars content has suffered from it, especially because official mainstream entries in the franchise constantly insist on it.
Part of the issue is Star Wars, and Lucas', insistence on tin can philosophy. The EU, for all its flaws, tried to flesh this gak out and create something with more depth. For whatever reason (well not whatever reason Lucas just wasn't that bright IMO) the official media tends to insist on the Jedi being these wise old guys who say wise old guy things but there's no consistency to a lot of it. It's all incoherent platitudes that form the pastiche of a philosophy rather than an actual philosophy that the story can work with. Virtually all Star Wars content has suffered from it, especially because official mainstream entries in the franchise constantly insist on it.
What if they were basically a whole bunch of lazy wizards... They could have studied lots and thought stuff through, or they could sashay along with a glowing sword having illegitimate kids (come on, that muppet was doing the wise act to get people into bed). The deeper mysteries are basically they let you in on the secret that the wise sayings were taken from wookiepedia and don't rock the boat if you want an easy life...
Graphite wrote:Those Jawas got themselves a SERIOUS hood ornament
Spoiler:
You can only choose one
Only the Sith deal in absolutes
You've really got to get out of this way of thinking, Jedi
I did love the pimped sand crawler!
Spoiler:
I’m wondering whether it’s a trap/trick by Luke; a false choice to teach a lesson? I haven’t read any of the old EU, but my impression was that Luke changed the Jedi teachings to recognise that trying to deny all attachment was what led to Anakin’s downfall. And it was Luke’s attachment to his father and sister that allowed him to turn Vader back.”
I think the problem is that jedi are supposed to think in terms of the "greater good", and that familial attachments are felt to warp that, to be something that the force user would value over almost anything else. thats part of the point of taking force sensitive children at a very young age, to limit their ability to form attachments outside the order that would overrule their duties to the "greater good", ie the whole "fear leads to anger" routine.
i dont think the choice is false, i think it might that luke is testing to see if grogu is too attached to his parent figure, in the same way that Anakin was, and if he chooses the armour, he would let him go rather than force him onto a path grogu doesnt want to be on. I think thats the point the old jedi got wrong, it was a order run by people who'd never grown up outside the system they were in, and didnt really understand how to properly deal with a person who did have those outside attachments.
The idea at least in theory is that in the grand scheme of things, attachments will be used against you and compromise your decisions. 99% of the time its fine, but then that one bad day instantly turns them into genocidal monsters that enslave the galaxy. It's worth noting that this is entirely why Anakin is too old in TPM. You got to kidnap them as babies so you can make sure they don't ever have any hopes and dreams beyond what is trained into them. There's probably a good comparison to be made to TFA Stormtroopers, but neither side of that is capable of making the bridge.
The main problem with all of this is that it doesn't gel at all with the way we see the grown Jedi in the series. This kind of gets handwaved as Qui-Gon being a bit of a trouble maker, but we never see the kind of zealotry in the old Jedi that we're constantly told is necessary. Din's code is more akin to how the Jedi should have been if they were really raised the way Anakin apparently should have been, but none of the stories have worked that way.
Mostly every failing in this department comes back to the gamification of the Force. Light Side vs Dark Side points in the early RPGs. It's created a bunch of rules around all this stuff that's reallyi supposed to be more character driven. It really doesn't help that we've never gotten a great depiction or exploration of the Dark Side. Mostly just "oh boy, here I go killing again" followed by a redemption arc.
Honestly, the issue is that dogmatic and cloistered societies are boring as feth. That's literally a big part of the point. Such groups basically give up anything interesting (or are supposed to) to focus on some higher cause or calling. They're by design devoid of personality.
They make for very bad story telling and very unreliable characters which is why pretty much no Jedi ever actually acts that way except when its time to have some drama about it and then it stands out like a sore thumb. Just look at 40k honestly. Space Marines are sometimes compared to indoctrinated maniacs with no will of their own, but they never act that way when we read about them. In the good Space Marine books they have lots of personality and are driven by basic conflicts about duty, brotherhood, and honor and all that. They're actually interesting when done right and so are the Jedi. The Jedi just have this instance around them that they shouldn't be doing all the stuff that makes them interesting to watch, which is weird when they all go off and do that stuff anyway. The sheer number of affairs in the old Jedi order are so numerous the idea that they didn't have a secret support group for one another is kind of shocking. Anakin was hardly the only one.
You'd think they'd focus less on having no attachments and more of being able to detach when necessary, like functional professionals.
I'll throw some flowers on the cinematography of the last two episodes (which also apply to the Mandalorian). I found myself surprised and rather amazed at how well the various Mandalorian characters, especially Din, can convey emotions all the while being completely faceless all the time. I would have never thought you could make that work, but they did.
Also was Luke made aware that a person can be both Jedi and Mandalorian at the same time? Should someone tell him that? The Armorer seems to have gotten it pretty quickly, but not him.
epronovost wrote: I'll throw some flowers on the cinematography of the last two episodes (which also apply to the Mandalorian). I found myself surprised and rather amazed at how well the various Mandalorian characters, especially Din, can convey emotions all the while being completely faceless all the time. I would have never thought you could make that work, but they did.
Also was Luke made aware that a person can be both Jedi and Mandalorian at the same time? Should someone tell him that? The Armorer seems to have gotten it pretty quickly, but not him.
maybe, but i think this is just part of the writers plan to allow Grogu to survive the destruction of the academy/death of the jedi by having him technically not "be a jedi", so they can bring him back in whenever they get round to writing stuff set in the sequel era.
I still maintain they won’t let him have the lightsaber because it would be too hard to convincingly animate him using it. Hell just levitate and crush things with the force.
Wow.. how good was it to see a young Mark Hamill on screen again in that role? Incredible effects, I actually stopped looking for faults with it after a few minutes, which I think shows that it was a success.
Lovely to have baby Yoda back - and that little suit of armour is the cutest thing I will see this year.
And I think that is the first time in the series that they piped the original Williams score into an episode when Luke & co appeared? Really nicely done.
PS - Does anyone else thing the Mandalorians are ridiculously strict with their creed? So you took out the biggest baddie, restored all of these fabled weapons? Yes but did you take your helmet off?
No wonder they have only three members (I guess now two) left.
"Did you use any word with the letter L in the past two days? Oh you did? You are no longer one of us. This is the way"
I'd have to rewatch Mandalorian but I think Bo-Katan even explicitly calls them an extremist sect. I'm cool with how they act, actually. I prefer crazy cultists that stick to their creed over extremists that conveniently learn and unlearn moderation as plot or convenience demands.
This is the way.
And yeah, we now have an answer to why the Hutts didn't want war with the Pykes. It must be a Hutt's worst nightmare to have their favorite restaurant blown up. RIP hot yellow Twi'lek waitress.
On a general note, how do people feel about the direction they took with Boba's character in this series? Have they made him too much of a good guy?
I know there is no way Disney would do it, but I will always wonder if it might have been better with an absolute A-hole of a main character who was disintegrating people left, right and centre? Rather than a slightly different new series of Mando?
(Or was the thing meant to be that he was 're-born' from the Sarlac pit?)
Pacific wrote: On a general note, how do people feel about the direction they took with Boba's character in this series?
I'd like to see how they end Book of Boba before I form an opinion on it. As in, I'd like to see if they had any direction in mind at all or if they just went "lol, snorts lizards, gets delusions of grandeur, let's see what happens".
Previously he's been shown to be relatively competent and working towards a goal. I don't think it's fair to judge Book of Boba Boba before we see if he accomplishes anything and if that success can be attributed to him.
I say relatively competent because you have to judge him by his age and experience, with stories spanning from the Clone Wars to the Galactic Civil War. Adult Boba is an experienced bounty hunter who knows his stuff. Younger Boba is learning his trade but not fully prepared yet. Even younger Boba is a mess who can't reconcile his quest for revenge with the cost it may incur. There's a plausible progression there. His showing in Book of Boba should slot into that somehow which, for the time being, I don't think it does very overtly. You have to give him the benefit of the doubt to see the same character, but like I said, that's based on an incomplete picture.
Pacific wrote: Have they made him too much of a good guy?
What's good about him? He's a crime boss. He's possibly one of the nicer crime bosses, but he still plans on exploiting others for his own gain using criminal methods. I find it hard to see that as being a good guy.
To turn that around, what was bad about bounty hunter Boba? He's just doing his job to make a living. There's no malice in it. He's probably best described as amoral due to the mercenary nature of his work, but every instance of it we see on screen, he works for the legitimate ruling body at that time and place and the only thing that makes him good or bad is how his employers are defined and how that reflects on him. As in, he works for the Empire/Vader. Empire/Vader are evil, so Boba has to be evil for opting to work for them. By profession, he's simply neutral and a degree of law-abiding.
Pacific wrote: I was reading this (now quite old) article by Black Library's ADB - about how much of a bad-ass Boba was in the original series. Does make you think there was an opportunity lost..
ADB is right to call out Boba's competence and explain how it's established, but a lot of that article chooses one of several plausible interpretations of the scenes and talks them up through manipulative use of language. Which isn't surprising, coming from an author. If ADB cared to do so, he could easily change the dismissive characterization of Phasma for a more charitable view.
Boba's competence in Empire Strikes Back is not in doubt, but his alleged badassery is a matter of interpretation and how much you want to project on the character.
Pacific wrote: On a general note, how do people feel about the direction they took with Boba's character in this series? Have they made him too much of a good guy?
I know there is no way Disney would do it, but I will always wonder if it might have been better with an absolute A-hole of a main character who was disintegrating people left, right and centre? Rather than a slightly different new series of Mando?
Mando has a massive body count in most episodes. And doesn't chase droids. Just shoots them.
Pacific wrote: On a general note, how do people feel about the direction they took with Boba's character in this series? Have they made him too much of a good guy?
First, he's not a good guy. He's navel gazing about crime rather than doing it, but passivity isn't morally good. He vaguely avenges the tribe through some flyover bombardment, but beyond being on a checklist, it had no real emotion attached.
As for his character, it honestly doesn't feel like he has one. He feels like a poser- he adopted the Tusken culture because it was convenient for survival, when it was gone, he immediately went to 'get ship' and somehow 'be crime lord' but clearly has no idea how to do that. He's got a fancy chair and a useful assistant, but that's it. At this point I want Fennec to shoot him in the back of the head and go off for her own show. Whatever potential Boba had as a character (IMO, not much) they've completely squandered it. They couldn't even make it five episodes into his own show!
(Or was the thing meant to be that he was 're-born' from the Sarlac pit?)
He has at least two if not three rebirths during the flashbacks (Sarlacc, nose lizard, burning the remains of his 'adopted people' and going back to crime). Oh, and finally emerging from the bacta tank when he's actually healed of... whatever injury that was. As rebirths go, they're... all pretty meaningless and empty.
I have read the Boba Fett trilogy back in the day. His character was all about making "business" while travelling around in Slave1. The trilogy in question was also pretty low on action as I remember as Boba Fett used his reputation as being dangerous to get leverage in any negotiations with his customers. So I expected him doing one assignment at a time in each episode in a different place like a true mercenary/bounty hunter would operate.
Yesterday I have seen the critique of the Angry Joe Show and I have to agree with the youtuber. Making Boba Fett take a backseat to another character in his OWN show is a blatant error. Imagine watching "Love & Marriage" in the 80s and instead of Al Bundy & his family doing their shenanigans suddenly Bill Cosby shows up hijacking the show. It would be a gigantic clusterfeth and thus nobody with common sense would even think about doing such a thing. So what were the writers thinking or didn´t they think at all?!
Man, the last two episodes were a crazy ride! We essentially got just a weird portion of “The Mandalorian Season 3” served up in the middle of a different show! But never-mind that for a moment, I want to talk about what I think/hope the show is leading up to, and the somewhat interesting take on religion that MAY be taking place here.
(Second spoiler warning. Also this bit is a more than a little silly, and VERY long-winded. You have been doubly warned!)
Okay, so firstly, in the second most-recent episode there was an extended bit about the surviving Mandalorian cultists (hey, I calls it like I see it, they are religious extremists who the other Mandalorians think are weird). Our protagonist Mando is at first hanging out with them, trying to fit in like he used to, but to my eyes something is a little off.
He's just not that into it.
He keeps questioning bits of dogma like the refusal to see Grogu (baby Yoda) as a true “foundling” and all that. Eventually, big-boy Mandalorian decides that a fight to the death over a sharp glow-stick makes total sense with a society of only three people, and so that's exactly what he does. Mando wins the fight, but again: there is something off.
So the cultist boss chimes in with the whole: “Hey, everyone is still in our cool cult right? Everyone has followed all the super-specific orders that we wrote down on the sacred back of a McDonalds place-mat, right?” And of course: big-boy Mandalorian is like “Yo, I'm totally in. I never took this helmet off for any reason!” but Mando, he's like: “Well... gak. Look, I had a good reason but-”
Boss lady isn't having it.
She's like: “You out of the cult, B.” And Mando is like: “But that's whack! I loved my little muppet son and he wanted to see me gob before I left him forever in muppet lasersword summer-camp!”
But boss lady isn't having it.
So Mando is clearly frustrated and asks if there isn't anything he could do. Boss lady is like: “Sure, you can go do this super-specific cult ritual in a place that got blowed up forever ago.” Mando is like: “Dude, that doesn't work anymore.” Boss lady is like: “I don't know what to tell you, sounds like a YOU problem to me.”
The point of all this is that Mando seems to seriously question his ultra traditional religious cult upbringing and its completely nonsense inflexible rules. We, as the audience, get to see that: Hey, those Mandalorian cultists are kinda jerks!
Next up: we get to see everyone's favorite muppet-baby at his super-cool lasersword summer-camp where he hangs out with PS3 Luke Skywalker and eats frogs (So, you know, a very normal summer-camp).
Muppet-baby is just chilling, eating frogs, doing some sick jumps using space-magic, that sort of thing. Then his space-dad comes to stop by and say hi, and drop off a sweet little space-sweater that he got from an artisan craftsman at a ren-faire and just, you know, really thinks his little muppet-son would dig. He runs into a problem though: the Jedi are having none of that noise.
Instead, they are sticking to THEIR ultra traditional religious cult ideals, complete with nonsense inflexible rules. Only their rules SPECIFICALLY are like: “And no sweet gifts from your space-dad when you are in lasersword summer-camp.” Mando has a hard time of this. First there was his own stupid cultists, then there are this completely NEW stupid cultists. He's visibly sad, (well, I mean, helmet so... maybe?) but what's he gonna do, beat up camp counselor lady-squid-head and PS3 Luke Skywalker just so he can say hi to his son? Talk about ruining arts and crafts day!
After Mando leaves, PS3 Luke Skywalker takes baby Yoda aside and is like: “Okay, pop quiz hotshot, who do you love more: the dude who is teaching you sweet jumps and lasersword fighting or your totally awesome space-dad?” baby Yoda can't talk, obviously, but we just KNOW he is saying:
“For truth, good sir, tis an unfair distinction and an arbitrary one. Upon the one hand, I was raised in ye old ideals of noble space-magic by the masters of old, and yon tutelage, though short in time, has had profound impact upon my very soul. Whereas, upon the other hand, I have my undying love and loyalty to that totally awesome shiny space-dad who saved my life and took me upon the best summer vacation road trip I've ever had. Also, that shiny space-sweater tis dope. Truly, tis a choice between the fire and the flame, and I am most vexed that ye, who profess towards wisdom, would asketh such of me.”
That's where the episode ends.
So, my takeaway here is this: both cults suck, and we, the audience, are supposed to be starting to understand this. Clearly, neither Mando nor Grogu fit into their cults anymore and wish to find a more reasonable alternative, as well as a family of equals to whom they share a bond. Enter Boba Fett and his ever growing crew of “Super Cool Action Figure Dudes” (at least, I THINK that's what his organization is called...)
Think about it: Boba doesn't fit in with being a bounty-hunter anymore, and his right-hand lady is clearly somewhat fed up with being an assassin. Big boy wookie (I think his name is Stan,) got tossed aside by his last employer and may or may not owe Boba a life debt at this point (Wookie culture is weird that way, and it's kind of hard to understand him when he monologues as I only speak Wookie at a third grade level). The point is, as Steve Zissou once said, “They are a pack of strays”.
More than that: they also represent nuance in a world/universe that traditionally lacks it.
Boba Fett doesn't run his crime empire like a crime empire. He's way too nice, talks way too much, and has a habit of helping people out instead of killing them. Same with Mando. Grogu is a Jedi who isn't a Jedi because he sees first hand that any organization that specifically cuts you off from your family for no good reason is pretty damn suspect. Do you see where this is going?
I think that Boba and crew are going to become something like a third alternative to the traditional Star-Wars dynamic of black v. white, good v. evil. I think that Grogu will become a force user, but not a Jedi specifically. I think that he is going to even train others in the use of the force, but do it in a way different from the traditional religious extremist method. But, do you want to know the kicker to the whole thing?
I think “The Book of Boba Fett” is a reference to the Jedi sacred texts. Specifically, a NEW sacred text, written after these events (possibly by later-day Grogu). Think about it: those books/stories are always referenced as being about specific people, and teaching specific lessons. I think that this one is about nuance, and a middle path. It also makes sense as to where we are culturally (speaking meta for a moment,) where the rampant partisan-ism of our world has seemingly reduced everything to black and white, good and evil, my team and your team. Introducing a third way here, and now, is an AWESOME way to keep the franchise going and introduce new concepts, ideas, and cultural relevance.
They can even have it so that, when the franchise eventually addresses the “new era” of the latest trilogy again, they can introduce a more compelling and nuanced form of Jedi... and quite possibly an “all growed up” version of Grogu... now, more than ever, a new version of Yoda.
So that's my theory. That's where I think this is going. That is my hope.
(Regardless though: new Star-Wars TV is rad!)
Thanks for reading, and let me know what you think!
well, you have a better take than i do, which was going down a rather cynical route of "they only got boba on board for the mado S2 part by promising him his own show, so they are fulfilling contractual obligations while trying to advance the plot they are ACTAULY intrested in".
xerxeskingofking wrote: well, you have a better take than i do, which was going down a rather cynical route of "they only got boba on board for the mado S2 part by promising him his own show, so they are fulfilling contractual obligations while trying to advance the plot they are ACTAULY intrested in".
I doubt it was just a contractual thing. Boba was always going to get his own feature. It was originally going to be a movie trilogy, as was the Kenobi series, but they were put on the backburner when Solo did so badly, and then resurrected as series when the Mando showed that D+ series could work as a viable thing.
If anything, I'd say it's more likely that Filoni and co weren't particularly interested in the character but management wanted the show to happen, so they've done the bare minimum to weave it into the ongoing narrative with the Mandalorian and the other (more interesting) upcoming shows. It's the Spiderman 3 of the Star Wars Galaxy.
Oh neat, just read that Luke’s voice from the last episode was entirely by computer. They fed it a whole bunch of recordings of him from that age and it synthed up all the lines.
I mean, it would make more sense to let the current actor act in some capacity, and not simply be a puppet choked under creepy and disturbing layers of another actor.
Does this mean they're going to bury whats-his-name under layers of Alec Guiness for the Obi-Wan show?
AduroT wrote: Oh neat, just read that Luke’s voice from the last episode was entirely by computer. They fed it a whole bunch of recordings of him from that age and it synthed up all the lines.
Heh. the marvels of modern technology.
Dysartes wrote: Ewan McGregor? I doubt it, given we've already seen him be various ages of Kenobi.
Yeah, I'd expect them to bring back Alec Guiness if they don't want to leave all the force ghost shenanigans to the wrinkled green fortune cookie. Ewan McGregor will do just fine for a Tatooine show.
leerm02 wrote: That is cool! ...a bit weird considering he is still alive... but it does make more sense than old Mark trying to sound like young Mark.
Considering the magnitude of difference in his tone from his 20 something youth to now, that's not a surprise. It would be hilarious to have a young Luke talking with the voice of a grouchy old man.
I was trying to figure out what they'd done. It definitely didn't synch up with Hamill's current voice and they haven't seemed interested in a sound alike for the character. It kind of had a slightly unnatural cadence that works pretty well with Jedi wisdom speak, but was pretty impressive knowing how it worked. Hamill has been pretty open to the tech when asked about it in the past too, which is probably why they're pushing it with his character.
Yes, it’s another “you might call me slow” observation.
Mando’s starfighter. Nabbonian (Nabooian?). A culture known for liking its shiny chrome. A shiny relic of the Old Republic. Now largely stripped back to its bare metal. Tarnished, untidy, imperfect. Like the current state of the Galaxy.
warboss wrote: Tomorrow is the season finale, right? I only see 7 episodes listed on IMDB. It feels odd to have an.. well.. odd number of episodes for some reason.
Alternately, it was originally meant as a 5 episode series.
Then the people making it were like 'this sucks' so they shoved 2 episodes of Mandalorian Season 3 in there XD
Best moment for me was Krrsantan coming back, thought he was a goner and in the most ignominious of ways. Him just fighting, blasting and hobbling his way to safety was epic.
Rancor going full on King Kong was great, as was Grogu's interactions first rocking the Skorpek (whatever it is called) then putting the Rancor to sleep.
Theý really made me think that Fett was dead...but glad that it was his own skill that saved him and defeated Bane.
Thought for sure in the post credits that it was Bane in the Bacta tank rather than Vanth.
I’m pretty sure Cad Bane is not in fact all dead to death. Critical for sure. But I did notice the shot of his body had a wee blinky light on the left hand side of his chest…
Also, no blood that I could see. That of course might just be Disney Disneying (and fair enough), but I’m not sure.
So, Cobb Vanth as Daimo, given Boba has accepted he’s not cut out for that role.
At this point once defeating someone in the Star Wars Universe you would think you would have the body pulped, cremated and scattered to every corner of the galaxy
Fun, action packed finale. Overall I did enjoy this episode but I’m still gonna pick the nits of the dumb stuff that stood out to me…
“We’ll see them long before they see us.” Queue montage of the most conspicuous sentries of all time.
Boba fired his rocket. I noticed later that it was back. Does he carry spares somewhere on his person?
Standard horror movie cliche of the slow monster keeping up with fleeing victims. Dang things were practically Weeping Angels, moving at a crawling pace when you look at them, but blipping a hundred feet down the street if the camera so much as blinked.
The assassination was weird. Small room, tiny windows, visible blaster bolts that all come from the same direction, and no one seemed to realize what was happening. Then a dude gets hung from the ceiling, and sure there’s what appears to be a hole in the center, but he wasn’t in the center. Were they Spider-Maning from the ceiling somehow and still unseen?
Had to rewind and pause and take a moment to recognize who that was in the post credit, but I find that to be not the least bit surprising. I’d expected them sooner really.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Graphite wrote: Oh, no! Was really hoping for a post credits of the Gamorreans staggering back to the palace...
I don’t believe they were ever given names, which makes them quite expendable.
Quite enjoyed it overall but the series has felt a bit disjointed.
I'll not be one of these negative nellies (though I think some of the criticisms are justified, I personally wanted more of the Tusken stuff) its just a a shame that the two best episodes didnt feature Boba.
Onto the Good stuff!
Spoiler:
Krrsantan. (Best looking Wookie costume so far IMO)
Pacific Outer Rim. ( Awesome seeing Rancor , vs really big droids )
"It wasn't the blasters...twas Grogu beat the beast"
Cad v Boba. Didnt play out the way I expected, but nobody draws faster than Bane.
He's funny, he's green, he loves going fast. Grogu is a speed freek.
I'd say I'll give the series 7/10. not as good as The Mandalorian, but enjoyable nonetheless.
Head Writer (HW): Ok, I've got this great idea for a final episode. Writer #1 (W1): Lay it on us boss! Writer #2 (W2): This should be good. HW: Ok, so, our crew will hole up the exploded Sanctuary. W1: Bit like the end of first season Mando? HW: Oh yeah... I didn't think... never mind. They're in the Sanctuary, or what's left of it. W2: Cool. HW: And the Pikes will surround them. W1: Good shooting positions. Lots of cover. HW: Well... I mean... most of them will stand in the street, but yeah, good shooting positions overall. W2: And they shoot their way out? HW: A ruse using the Mayor's aide to draw attention. The fans love that guy. W1: I dunno about love... but go on! HW: So Boba and Mando will jet in and start taking names. Zap, zap, zap. Pikes falling everywhere. W2: And Shand? HW: She's off doing assassin things. She's not really in this episode. W1: Oh... ok... so... HW: So, yeah, they're just blitzing the Pikes, but then they start taking hits to their Beskar. W2: So they're not getting wounded. HW: No. Just knocked around. W1: But otherwise fine? HW: Mostly. But then the people from Freedonia- W2: Freetown. HW: Whatever. They show up on a speeder, and start blasting the Pikes. W1: Bold sacrifice for the towns people. HW: Well, none of them will get shot. The Pikes only hit when shooting Beskar. And a Wookie. W2: Wookie? HW: We'll get to that. W1: So the townsfolk, Fett and Mando get into a big gunright with the Pikes, who mostly all die, and who all miss their shots, except for against Beskar. HW: It's going to be awesome. And then the Wookie comes back after nearly being killed by a horde of Trandoshans - the peopole who specialise in hunting Wookies - who fail to kill him. A Wookie. W1: You just said they specialise in kill- HW: And he gets shot heaps of times trying to make it back to Fett's side. W2: A noble sacrifice for our big Wookie friend! HW: Oh no. He's pretty much fine. He gets behind the speeder and helps them fight off the Pikes. W1: So they've won? HW: Oh hell no! They're going to get attacked by these two massive feth off droids. Scorpenek or something. Four big blade-legs, and these two massive double-barrelled blaster cannons with these huge ammo-hoppers coming out the back. W2: Why... why would a blaster need an ammo-hopper? HW: Doesn't matter! Anyway, so these huge droids have shields like Destroyers from TMP. And their cannons are just blasting away! W1: So a real problem for our heroes. I'm guessing a bunch of the townsfolk bite the dust here as they flee? HW: Not a single one. Their speeder explodes though. W2: They don't get shot? At all? HW: Not yet. Anyway, they flee from these things, and Boba/Mando take on one whilst the others run away. They can't get through the shields, but they keep shooting them over and over again anyway. W1: And our heroes never get shot? HW: Never. Our Wookie friend though, he manages to weaken the shield with repeated close range blasts, and then he gets through the shield partially, until the giant robot with massive feth-off cannons and blade legs turns to face him. W2: A noble sacrifice for our big already-wound Wookie friend. HW: Oh no, nothing like that. He's going to get hit into a wall, and the two Mos Espa Vespas who have had lines so far will help him get away. W1: Wait... really? HW: So after Mando uses the Darksaber to damage one of the droids, he'll be at the mercy of its remaining massive feth-off cannon. W2: Which hasn't hit anyone yet. HW: Exactly! But Baby Yoda- W1: Grogu. HW: Whatever. Will come along and pull something out of it leg, so it collapses. W2: S... sure...? HW: Then it's Fett - Rancor Rider time! W2: Yes! Finally. HW: He pretty much eviscerates the first droid, and then they go to find the other one that's been after the Freetown people. W1: They must be pretty low on numbers after that chace! HW: Nope. Hasn't killed one of them yet. W2: What? HW: So they've holed up in this small courtyard outside the front of a building, and the Scorponok- W1: Scorpenek. HW: Whatever. Has them hemmed in, and more Pikes have shown up. And the townsfolk are returning fire, but everything against them is just going crazy. W2: The droids big- HW: Big feth-off cannons! W2: Yeah those. I presume they're just making a complete mockery of the wall the poor townspeople are hiding behind, right? HW: No. No shots are getting through. They're pretty safe actually. I reckon one might die, but not the two in the least amount of cover. They're going to have a whole conversation about flanking one of the droids. W1: What's their plan after they flank the droid? HW: Doesn't matter. Anyway, the Fett shows up with the Rancor again, and goes to down on the other droid. W2: Sweet! HW: And then the Rancor gets shot a bunch by the droids huge feth-off cannons. W1: Ah! A tragic loss to defend Moss Espa. HW: Oh no, the Rancor kinda just 'Hulks' it a bit here. The shots only make it angry. W2: So you've got two Scorpenek- HW: Sub-Zero. W2: That's not what their called. Anyway, two giant robots with huge feth-off cannons, that have been sent in by the Pikes to wipe out Boba. And so far they've missed every shot against the people they were sent to kill, failed to kill an already-wounded Wookie when it had him dead to rights, can't penetrate an aggregate stone wall, and when they finally did hit something, they didn't kill it? HW: Yeah! It's going to be epic! W1: Won't it kinda kill the stakes if despite all these forces, they're never in any real danger as they never ever get hit by anything. HW: I mean maybe one of the townsfolk gets shot by a lucky Pike shot or something. W1: I don't know if that'll be enou- HW:And then we're going to do King Kong with the Rancor!!! W1: What? W2: What? HW: 'Cause I played Kinect Star Wars last week, and the end is going to be a bit like that, only Baby Yoda will make the Rancor go to sleep. W1: Huh? W2: Why? HW: Oh and Shand will kill all the other people silently and even garrote/hang/break the neck of the Ithorian mayor! W1: But only one of the townspeople- HW: Yes, only one of them will die. So - what do you think? W1: Maybe the Mando episode and the Luke/Baby Yoda episode will be enough to make them like the show? W2: I hope so. Obi-Wan's not far off either, so hopefully that'll make 'em forget about this show. HW: C'mon! We'll even have Cad Bane get killed in single combat by Jango! W1: Boba. HW: Whatever.
I mean... they were never under threat. Never. I think only one of them get shot the entire time. Those robots. Hit. Nothing.
It's not good when the best parts of the show have feth all to do with your title character. They should return Boba Fett and company to the sidelines. I skipped forward through every mod scene. That gang is the most painful thing I've seen in Star Wars since the Anakin-Padme romance.
Trying to be nonspoilery for those who haven't seen it. Mindless popcorn pew pew summer blockbuster JJ Abrams style fun and one of the better episodes trailing behind 5 and 6 which, given the description, is sort of a backhanded compliment. Regardless, worth a watch to see Boba actually do something finally. A bit too bad western meets 90s John Woo clone at times in style over substance as the episodes was basically one long action scene of connecting moments. Still, some of those moments were pretty darn cool. I'd just have preferred them not cranking it up to 11 at times personally.
'These people of Mos Espa are counting on me.'
What? When have we gotten _any_ indication that the people of Mos Espa give two damp figs about Boba Fett? And why are they 'his people?' They never bothered to give him a motivation beyond 'he wants to do this now.'
I was really worried about the fight choreography- the early scenes (especially with the orcs) were trash. But it really picked up at the shootout (presumably because gunplay is easier to CGI).
And then... uh, yeah. That happened. HBMC has a pretty good summary.
Anyway, sadly disappointed that they're advertising it as the 'season finale' and not the 'series finale.' Because honestly... this was just mostly sad.
And had Boba let Fennec have two minutes to do her job earlier in the season, there wouldn't even have been an issue.
....why is the rat-chaser droid part of the gang in the end?
----
For season 3 of Mando, they really need to work on the Grogu puppet. Walking it in well-lit, open space just does not work.
...ah. Windshield tapping. In space. yeah, I'm done.
When Grogu walks you shouldnt see the feet lift up like they do, it should just be a robe that kind of drags/slides along the ground, maybe some movement where his feet or knees push it forward.
As far as the window tapping, that would actually l work because the sound would travel thru the structure of the ship, not space. His head ain’t all that far from where he’s tapping.
Series review:
Relied too heavily on legacy additions from other Star Wars things. The concept was cool but somehow it just felt like so much filler waiting for the finale to kick off.
The thing is, I'd hate to see a second season that was just Fett going around killing things and being "cool". That would just be recycled Mando.
TBH they should drop it. It was a nice one-off but Fett just can't carry a story IMO. Kenobi at least has that 30-year gap to work in how Obi-Wan adapted to his life post-Purge and they can easily work in plotlines from the movies and Clone Wars without it feeling forced. Not looking forward to more Tatooine though.
They got to say his name more clearly in the end-credit music. We went back to previous eps, and it is vaguely there, but in this end music, it is definitely his name.
As for the show itself, it can't have been the Pykes who shot all of those Storm Troopers on spikes in Mos Eisley.
Yeah, the window tapping must have been through the chassis.
Those Mod 'speeders' needed more speed.
A.) I wasn’t imaging things then! Cause yeah, it occurred to me they were clearly saying his name, and I was disappointed at myself for having somehow missed that until now, but if it’s because the song changed slightly then I feel redeemed.
2.) Now I’m imaging an hours long shootout between a squad of Storm Troopers vs a gang of Pykes, just firing at each other from across the street, no one landing a single shot. Neither side even has cover.
AduroT wrote: A.) I wasn’t imaging things then! Cause yeah, it occurred to me they were clearly saying his name, and I was disappointed at myself for having somehow missed that until now, but if it’s because the song changed slightly then I feel redeemed.
2.) Now I’m imaging an hours long shootout between a squad of Storm Troopers vs a gang of Pykes, just firing at each other from across the street, no one landing a single shot. Neither side even has cover.
What did you not miss because apparently I did? As for #2, I'd imagine it would have been a matchup worthy of this cross property meme as well!
AduroT wrote: A.) I wasn’t imaging things then! Cause yeah, it occurred to me they were clearly saying his name, and I was disappointed at myself for having somehow missed that until now, but if it’s because the song changed slightly then I feel redeemed.
2.) Now I’m imaging an hours long shootout between a squad of Storm Troopers vs a gang of Pykes, just firing at each other from across the street, no one landing a single shot. Neither side even has cover.
And yet, Pykes on a speeding train versus Tuskens in cover at the top of the dunes... Pykes were expert marksmen. To a degree that seemed slightly absurd at the time.
This batch were just... idiots. 'Hey someone came out to talk, lets leave cover and just gather in the street' is not a sane response in this situation.
Though I don't know why the 'good guys' kept leaving through the front door, either. No side windows or kitchen entrance at all? Though presumably, given how the city stood up to heavy weapons fire (but not Kaiju wrestling), its probably impossible to cut doors or windows into whatever the hell they're using for concrete.
TBH they should drop it. It was a nice one-off but Fett just can't carry a story IMO.
Not the Fett they created for this story, at least. If he had a... less muddled... motivation, maybe he could have.
Kenobi at least has that 30-year gap to work in how Obi-Wan adapted to his life post-Purge and they can easily work in plotlines from the movies and Clone Wars without it feeling forced. Not looking forward to more Tatooine though.
Going to be honest, the best thing Kenobi could do is an establishing shot of him on Tats, a messenger showing up (or Force dreams, whatever) for plot reasons he's needed off world (to close off some old business with a friend), and then he comes back in the epilogue.
Trying to track down someone (or hide a stray padawan) on the Ringworld we didn't see enough of would be nice, for example.
He's got a lot of baggage and friends from the Clone Wars series (or even the prequels) that they could easily do something more interesting.... if they want to.
It could even involve the surviving clone officers from his regiment- we know they were kicking around for awhile, or flesh out the reason why Leia's adopted father felt like it was a good idea to send her to Kenobi in a New Hope..
What I feared about this show - that Boba would attempt to become the crime lord of Tatooine, but really just be Disney-fied so he's doing nothing criminal - is exactly what happened. Even stopped the spice trade, and wiped out the leaders of all the other crime families.
And I feel the inclusion of Bane is the worst type of example of taking your audience for granted. It's occasionally fun to have a "sink or swim" mentality to writing - we're not going to explain this, so please try to keep up! - and I think Fringe might be a great example of this, but the way the show treated Bane was that everyone watching the show will already know who he is, his relationship to Boba, and why that's significant. I doubt this was the case for many people, and I'm sure once my parents watch this I'm going to have to explain who Cad Bane is and why he's important.
And man... those giant droids with their inability to hit anything ever. What a waste...
I have to side with the critical side on this one.
Especially compared to the tension and stakes of Mandalorian's first season, Book of Boba Fett starts with incoherent mumblings and ends with a whimper. The actions okay I guess, but the stakes for this show were always kind of 'what the feth is Boba even about?' and since that was never established at any point since he does nothing but concede to everyone on every issue, a full episode of final battle feels like it came before the show ever really got started. The two Mandalorian episodes were great and I loved how those kind of played into the finale in a fun way, but it still feels like Boba played second fiddle in his own show.
Also:
Spoiler:
Hey, let's abandon all mobility afforded to us by our vehicles and jet packs to stand in front of a building and shoot guns... Really?
At least the Rancor was cool, even if I groaned when the scene started because plotless action is really only fun in pornos *wink wink*
By the end of it, this whole show just feels lazy and like no one was particularly interested in making it.
Why not just have Boba Fett renounce crime, bounty hunting, and all that gak and declare himself sheriff? Honestly, it probably would have worked better and better lined up with his actual behavior. Could have even used it to build a new conception of his background as a boy who grew up in the chaos of the Clone Wars and came to prize order, so he sided with the Empire and the Hutts. Until it turned out their order wasn't worth the price when the Pikes murdered his Tuskan bros. So he sets out to make his own order.
That would have worked, even as a different conception of his character than the old EU built.
Instead it feels like the people making this show were so disinterested or afraid, they just dropped a guy on screen, called him Boba Fett, and started thinking of action scenes for him to run around in. And how to shoehorn in their secret desire for a remake of Dances with Wolves (In Space). Cad Bane left more of an impression in a couple minutes than Boba did across the whole show.
In conclusion;
Spoiler:
The best part of Boba Fett was really the Mandalorian, and see Grogou decide to return to Mando. Super bright side? We no longer have to wonder if Grogou was killed when Kylo went Anakin on Luke's Jedi academy. Presumably, he instead became a little Yoda-Mandalorian which is honestly going to be way funnier to see in Mandalorian Season 3 when we've all forgotten about Boba Fett and that he was even in this show).
Why not just have Boba Fett renounce crime, bounty hunting, and all that gak and declare himself sheriff? Honestly, it probably would have worked better and better lined up with his actual behavior. Could have even used it to build a new conception of his background as a boy who grew up in the chaos of the Clone Wars and came to prize order, so he sided with the Empire and the Hutts. Until it turned out their order wasn't worth the price when the Pikes murdered his Tuskan bros. So he sets out to make his own order.
Huh. The sad thing is, you're right, and further, this could have been the Book of Freetown Sheriff Guy with little to no alternation.
Don’t entirely regret it, as it had some fun parts, but it also further solidified that Star Wars just isn’t for me anymore. Also made me cancel Disney+ again.
Some thoughts in no particular order:
Spoiler:
The Gamoreans continued to be laughably worthless. I hoped for a better showing from the offspring of Kermit and Miss Piggy.
How is the scooter girl so pale on a desert planet!?
The shields on the robots were a bit silly OP. Why not just send them in first?
Speaking of OP, I guess all the Pykes that could shoot died on the train heist. Those dudes were hitting mostly half exposed, seemingly long distance targets while moving at high speeds. The guys in the city gunfight not so much.
The Rancor parts were cool. Genuinely surprised that this show showed it swallowing a Pyke alive.
I’m not familiar with the dudes body of work, but I wonder how weak and scattershot this series proved to be was a result that maybe the Boba Fett actor just doesn’t seem to be able to have the acting chops/skillset/magic to carry the series. Pedro carried 2 seasons of Mando with tone and body language alone, aside from the 2(?) helmetless scenes.
Wow! They actually killed “censored for cable TV Sheriff Seth Bullock”! Oh, nvm. Guess he really didn’t need that armor if he lived. Good thing the blue tube dude didn’t light him up like he did his deputy. Also, how the feth did a Gamorean’s fat ass fit in that tank? Didn’t Boba offer it after the Wookie beat his piglet ass in a previous episode or am I remembering it wrong?
Fennec going into “Leon: The Professional” mode on the bosses at the end was cool, though the amount of angles she could cover seemed a bit over the top.
Kind of ambivalent about Grogu coming back. On one hand, the cute memes continue! On the other hand, it feels like its going to be more of the same and kind of cheapens the overall arc of Mando trying to search for a home for him. Creatively, it seemed like the easy, almost cowardly choice.
I said it previously I think, but it seems like a mistake to have such a tiny ship for Mando and Grogu. Boba should’ve given him Slave 1 like I was hoping.
I have an employee who is half my age and seems to love this show unabashedly, so I’m sure I’ll grow to hate this show more by the end of the week after debating with him and theorizing how much better it could’ve been.
nels1031 wrote:The shields on the robots were a bit silly OP. Why not just send them in first?
Why send them in at all? Almost every shot they fired missed, and those that did connect didn't do anything.
The Intergalactic Banking Clan or whomever made those defective droids must be laughing all the way to... well... themselves.
"We've had these things in storage since the Clone Wars!"
"And someone bought them?"
"Pikes saw the big feth-off cannons and thought they must be very dangerous."
"They can't hit the broadside of a bantha!"
"I know!"
An underwhelming ending to a mediocre show. This really demonstrates how badly Disney has bungled with the SW IP and that Mando really does stand out as an exception to the rule when it comes to having a show where it does a good job exploring the different aspects of SW.
Also, I was hoping they wouldn't waste Cad Bane and they did, what a joke of a final fight that was, not to mention how the Pykes were effectively useless.
I'm hoping the ending of Book of Boba implies this is the end of the show for him, because he really does come off as a very bargain bin Din Djarin and it would seem redundant to follow him around as a bounty hunter when Mando already does that quite well.
Yeah when all is said and done this series was pretty underwhelming. I liked The Mandalorian quite a bit, that series still had its low points but I can look back on it fondly.
There was some weirdness in this series, like those punkish kids riding space vespas with cyberpunk 2077 implants. A lot of the influences here are pretty on the nose, whether it's the rancor climbing the empire state building, star wars showing no shame at all in continuing to reference Dune, amongst a multitude of other things.
I do think the incredible plot armour for Disney heroes was established in the Mandalorian series where what seems to be 2 companies of stormtroopers get dealt with by 4 guys. I mean at this point the galaxy should worry if the heroes want to rule it, because if the empire could win with those soldiers everyone has no chance against someone competent. The total lack of peril is just burying these series for me, before we even get to the problems in this show.
Boba and Din were getting hit, but only on their armour.
There is so much of them that isn't covered, surely something should have got through. So, even though they did get shot, they did not get injured.
Fun, entertaining, grotesque. Could have been better, could have been worse.
nels1031 wrote: How is the scooter girl so pale on a desert planet!?
She's a bum. Without a job she doesn't have to stand in the sun all day.
nels1031 wrote: I’m not familiar with the dudes body of work, but I wonder how weak and scattershot this series proved to be was a result that maybe the Boba Fett actor just doesn’t seem to be able to have the acting chops/skillset/magic to carry the series. Pedro carried 2 seasons of Mando with tone and body language alone, aside from the 2(?) helmetless scenes.
Actors aren't my go-to when something like this comes up, but I can't help but notice that Robert Rodriguez gets credited a lot as producer and director. I uniformly like the movies of his I've seen, but I tend to associate them with pulpy action way more than sensible plot. I'm inclined to look there for the reason why Book of Boba is kind of dodgy.
The_Real_Chris wrote: I do think the incredible plot armour for Disney heroes was established in the Mandalorian series where what seems to be 2 companies of stormtroopers get dealt with by 4 guys. I mean at this point the galaxy should worry if the heroes want to rule it, because if the empire could win with those soldiers everyone has no chance against someone competent. The total lack of peril is just burying these series for me, before we even get to the problems in this show.
When has that not been a problem with Star Wars? I mean, Stormtrooper reputation/memes exist for a reason. Mandalorian has kind of amped that up, but it's been an issue with Star Wars for decades. I'm convinced at this point the specific type of plot armor employed in Star Wars is seen as a feature at Lucasfilm and they're mortally afraid of moving away from it even in the slightest for fear of making something that looks so disjointed from existing Star Wars media that it's going to get trashed as not belonging.
Even Rogue One that I believe was touted as a war movie in space, which generally implies soldiers on both sides are competent and die in larger numbers, has moments when the plot requires the pinpoint accuracy of Death Troopers to fail spectacularly without even a pretense of an explanation.
Book of Boba certainly strives to epitomize this, but to pick out one example the villager contribution in the finale was entirely foreseeable. The villagers cannot suffer anything but token losses because they were brought into the fight by Din (designated good guy who's good at what he's doing), who knew full well he was sending hapless villagers to battle against large numbers of competent (by reputation, see also Obi-Wan's opinion on Stormtroopers) underworld enforcers. If the villagers actually have to pay a price for their involvement, it doesn't just undermine their moral right to victory as the designated good guys, but reflects badly on Din's competence and moral standing. As a consequence his plot armor has to extend to the villagers.
That's Star Wars as it's ever been. A legion of Palpi's best troops (so he claims), and how many Ewoks die? One? Two? Yeah.
Not that I approve of it, mind, but I have no idea how anyone could enjoy Star Wars for the last forty years without the ability to at least partially ignore this feature.
I can nitpick this all over the place, but... meh.... it was fun and stupid, and totally feels like it was supposed to be a film script that got broken into a series after Solo. This finale after maybe an hour of scenes from the first four episodes minus some of the Din specific stuff would have made for a decent "Star Wars Story" level film. So yeah, it was dumb, and pandering and easy to pick apart, but it wasn't boring by any means.
Now, to actually nitpick a bit:
- The two guys with Jetpacks and pistols dealing with entrenched snipers by standing in the open and getting pummeled was kind of hilarious. Like that is EXACTLY what that kind of kit is useful for.
- Din getting all the emotional payoff was kind of a cheat.
- I think the most obvious sign this was stretched into a series is the "reveal" that the Pykes were responsible for killing Boba's Tusken family. We get a scene where its revealed to Cad then another scene staged like a surprise when Cad reveals it to Boba. Like, both those kind of scenes are usually scripted and shot so they're available in editing but using both is kind of hilarious. Also, Boba should have already known this and been blocking the spice to drag the Pykes into a war where he could get his revenge. Feels pretty obvious that was at one point part of the script given all the spare parts.
LunarSol wrote: - The two guys with Jetpacks and pistols dealing with entrenched snipers by standing in the open and getting pummeled was kind of hilarious. Like that is EXACTLY what that kind of kit is useful for
Exactly what we though. Why pop away at people on the ground while hovering, then land to get those on the roofs? Odd.
Boba: None of that worked. None of it.
Fennec: Remember how I told you so? Every. Single. Time?
Boba: Nah, I think we're just not cut out for this.
Fennec: You.
Boba: We.
LunarSol wrote: - The two guys with Jetpacks and pistols dealing with entrenched snipers by standing in the open and getting pummeled was kind of hilarious. Like that is EXACTLY what that kind of kit is useful for
Exactly what we though. Why pop away at people on the ground while hovering, then land to get those on the roofs? Odd.
It's a problem with the good guys' amazing plot armor. They don't get hurt. They don't run out of ammo. They don't run out of time. They can literally stand in the middle of the road, facetank everything and win by attrition.
It's a lost opportunity to make something out of the battle. The Pykes have numbers and superior position. Boba and Din have jetpacks. The biker gang has vespas. The hillbillies come in their own truck. The writers could have let them use superior mobility to stay ahead of their enemies and given the loss of the speeders and thus mobility more weight.
But why go to all that trouble if you can stand in the middle of the road and facetank everything?
LunarSol wrote: I've definitely not loved the depiction of Beskar in general. The premise is fine, but they keep going full Superman with it.
Yeah, and it also contradicts with how easily the Mandalorians end up dying to blaster fire in the Clone Wars series, since even if you say that Beskar was only reserved for the elites/nobles, it's bizarre how it basically never comes into play at all when it's never used to effect by the Deathwatch. It's used too much to avoid damage from things that aren't blaster related too, like sheer physical force or being thrown through walls.
Don’t entirely regret it, as it had some fun parts, but it also further solidified that Star Wars just isn’t for me anymore. Also made me cancel Disney+ again.
Some thoughts in no particular order:
Spoiler:
The Gamoreans continued to be laughably worthless. I hoped for a better showing from the offspring of Kermit and Miss Piggy.
How is the scooter girl so pale on a desert planet!?
The shields on the robots were a bit silly OP. Why not just send them in first?
Speaking of OP, I guess all the Pykes that could shoot died on the train heist. Those dudes were hitting mostly half exposed, seemingly long distance targets while moving at high speeds. The guys in the city gunfight not so much.
The Rancor parts were cool. Genuinely surprised that this show showed it swallowing a Pyke alive.
I’m not familiar with the dudes body of work, but I wonder how weak and scattershot this series proved to be was a result that maybe the Boba Fett actor just doesn’t seem to be able to have the acting chops/skillset/magic to carry the series. Pedro carried 2 seasons of Mando with tone and body language alone, aside from the 2(?) helmetless scenes.
Wow! They actually killed “censored for cable TV Sheriff Seth Bullock”! Oh, nvm. Guess he really didn’t need that armor if he lived. Good thing the blue tube dude didn’t light him up like he did his deputy. Also, how the feth did a Gamorean’s fat ass fit in that tank? Didn’t Boba offer it after the Wookie beat his piglet ass in a previous episode or am I remembering it wrong?
Fennec going into “Leon: The Professional” mode on the bosses at the end was cool, though the amount of angles she could cover seemed a bit over the top.
Kind of ambivalent about Grogu coming back. On one hand, the cute memes continue! On the other hand, it feels like its going to be more of the same and kind of cheapens the overall arc of Mando trying to search for a home for him. Creatively, it seemed like the easy, almost cowardly choice.
I said it previously I think, but it seems like a mistake to have such a tiny ship for Mando and Grogu. Boba should’ve given him Slave 1 like I was hoping.
I have an employee who is half my age and seems to love this show unabashedly, so I’m sure I’ll grow to hate this show more by the end of the week after debating with him and theorizing how much better it could’ve been.
on the "why not lead with the droids?" question, i can point to a few answers in the episode:
1) they didnt want to bring them in until thier local allies/disposable muscle had already got stuck it and pinned/neutralised bobas forces, so they had to lead with the faster moving footsloggers to spread out and cover the city until the bots catch up.
2) dinn and boda, when discussing thier options as the pyke stack up outside (just before the "i surrender" distraction), mention that they should launch a spoiler attack before the pyke are ready rather than let them get everything in place before attacking at leisure. they then do just that, launch a spoiler attack that buys them a little time to regroup, and forces the pyke to disengage until the bots are in position.
3) the Pyke, while willing to accept collateral damage, were at least trying to limit it if they could, as they both wanted to appease thier local allies, and the greater population, so they wouldn't have too many problems in the city going forward. Its only as their initial plan with infantry and infiltration failed that they brought out the heavy firepower.
and additional pure speculation, the pykes might have originally brought them along to crack into jabbas old fort (ie bobas known base of operations) and it was only once they realised he was in the city did they re-deploy them to attack thier. its possible they might also have held them back as AA cover if he decided to start flying around in the slave I and start dropping bombs on them.
and additional pure speculation, the pykes might have originally brought them along to crack into jabbas old fort (ie bobas known base of operations) and it was only once they realised he was in the city did they re-deploy them to attack thier. its possible they might also have held them back as AA cover if he decided to start flying around in the slave I and start dropping bombs on them.
Well, neither of those would work, since the concrete(?) half-wall of an outdoor restaurant/stable (whatever the civvies were hiding behind) was more than sufficient to repel firepower of that magnitude.
No way in hell could those two bots have cracked a fortress or a ship.
Overall impression of the finale: thoroughly meh. It started off terrible but managed to raise itself up to being vaguely watchable towards the end.
The opening with the spoken exposition like a TV show from 1992 was so bad, made even worse by the extreme obviousness of the lookouts and the bizarre idea that everything was perfectly planned because now their flanks were covered. Sadly, they were covered by the entirety of your forces, leaving nothing to actually cover for. Even if the Freetownies had shown up on time the entire crew fits in one moderately sized speeder so I'm not sure what the plan was exactly? Plot armour your way to victory?
The shootout was fine, with some neat moments. The droids were dumb as all hell though, especially in the scenes where they were chasing Fett's crew down the street and failing to hit them in the open at a range of about 20 feet. Grogu coming back was honestly kind of annoying for me. Yes, I get that he's cute and all, but I feel like after 2 seasons of Mando we've kind of done that now and maybe we should move on a bit. Rancor was cool, I guess but even that seemed like it was unearned after one scene 4 episodes ago explaining its existence. The assassinations towards the end felt off too, as did Fennec's lack of involvement in the firefight.
I'd echo a previous poster about Cad Bane's involvement. It's cool for people who know who he is and his relationship with Boba but for anyone else he's just this random scary blue dude who seems to have jumped in from a spaghetti Western. He still comes across as a badass but I think they missed a big opportunity there. I think it would probably be best to leave the Book of Boba Fett at one season and call it quits, TBH. I'm not convinced the writers know what they want to do with the character and I'm increasingly convinced Temuera Morrison just ain't that good of an actor or at least isn't able to elevate the fairly average material he has to work with here.
Enjoyable enough finale. Rancor Kong was cool and it was great seeing him smash the droids. (BTW I didn't think of those as ammo feed, but as armoured cowling for the power cables). We finally get to see Boba being a bit badass, jet-packing and blasting away with all his suits weapons in the 'Butch and Sundance' moment with Mando.
Cad Bane - I only know of him because there is a Star Wars: Legion figure for him. I assume he's a Clone Wars character? He seemed cool an' all so it looked like a wrong move to kill him off.
MarkNorfolk wrote: Cad Bane - I only know of him because there is a Star Wars: Legion figure for him. I assume he's a Clone Wars character? He seemed cool an' all so it looked like a wrong move to kill him off.
Yeah, he features in various Clone Wars episodes.
On killing him, he has that blinking light and the beeping in his final scene. May well be that he's got a medivac service on standby that's being called in. He has a droid sidekick in Clone Wars for all his menial labor needs, so I wouldn't count him out just yet.
If he's actually dead dead, that may not be the worst way to go. He's pretty old during Book of Boba. Imagine if they filmed a new Western and brought in Clint Eastwood for all their badass gunslinger needs. That's Cad Bane in Book of Boba. Now they don't actually have to worry about the actor dying on them, but as they move the timeline along Bane is bound to die of old age at some point if they don't give him the old gunslinger sendoff.
Yeah. Cad Bane is a pretty central character when it comes to the Scum & Villainy in Clone Wars. Not exactly a leader as such, but definitely a well respected member of the under world.
I can highly recommend giving Clone Wars a watch. Whilst not of equal consistency, and some of the episodes induce cringe in me, the majority is pretty awesome stuff. It really showed what can be done with Star Wars when a writer is given more than a movie’s run time to play with.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Yeah. Cad Bane is a pretty central character when it comes to the Scum & Villainy in Clone Wars. Not exactly a leader as such, but definitely a well respected member of the under world.
I can highly recommend giving Clone Wars a watch. Whilst not of equal consistency, and some of the episodes induce cringe in me, the majority is pretty awesome stuff. It really showed what can be done with Star Wars when a writer is given more than a movie’s run time to play with.
I think its best enjoyed like Dr. Who. Find a list of the best story arcs/episodes and just watch those. There's a lot of episodes that are just fun little adventures of wildly varying quality that have no real impact on each other. There is no need to grind through the whole thing to get to the great parts.
I don't understand why they had to add Cad and the Pykes when they already had introduced Krrsantan and the incestuous Hutts. Their introduction basically amounted to nothing more than a rancor delivery service and a crappy fight scene. I think it would have been less wasteful and more satisfying if they had stayed the antagonists.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Yeah. Cad Bane is a pretty central character when it comes to the Scum & Villainy in Clone Wars. Not exactly a leader as such, but definitely a well respected member of the under world.
I can highly recommend giving Clone Wars a watch. Whilst not of equal consistency, and some of the episodes induce cringe in me, the majority is pretty awesome stuff. It really showed what can be done with Star Wars when a writer is given more than a movie’s run time to play with.
I think its best enjoyed like Dr. Who. Find a list of the best story arcs/episodes and just watch those. There's a lot of episodes that are just fun little adventures of wildly varying quality that have no real impact on each other. There is no need to grind through the whole thing to get to the great parts.
While there are definitely episodes that are basically self-contained, it depends on what you're after. If you're interested in the panoply of characters during the Clone Wars, I'd argue it's worth putting in the work and watching the whole show once before you go back and only watch select episodes if the fancy strikes. Similarly, if you want to see the war develop, or Palpy's takeover efforts, you'll get little tidbits here and there that aren't necessarily in the big episodes or arcs.
It's also worth noting some things are interconnected. If you look at the Clone Wars as a way of fixing your dislike for movie Anakin, as an example, you won't get anywhere without Ahsoka. To get the full Ahsoka experience, you can't do without Lux Bonteri. For Lux you need Death Watch. For Death Watch you need Mandalore. All of those points branch off further. It can spiral out of control and if you go by must watch lists you may actually miss interesting parts because of whoever put the list together may be applying subjective standards for what is worth watching.
As such I'd advise giving the whole show a try first, just for the complete picture.
warboss wrote: I don't understand why they had to add Cad and the Pykes when they already had introduced Krrsantan and the incestuous Hutts. Their introduction basically amounted to nothing more than a rancor delivery service and a crappy fight scene. I think it would have been less wasteful and more satisfying if they had stayed the antagonists.
The Hutts are an easy way of misleading the audience. Jabba used to run Tatooine, so of course his cousins want to reclaim it from the usurper Boba. But twist! It was the fish 'eads all along, and conveniently we have the well established megalomaniac Hutts back down from their claim to Tatooine and establish just how much of a power the Pykes are. The way they're handled actually serves a purpose for the story.
If the Hutts back down because they don’t want a war with the Pykes, but the Pykes only have a few dozen men plus a pair of droids, how sad must the Hutts have become?
AduroT wrote: If the Hutts back down because they don’t want a war with the Pykes, but the Pykes only have a few dozen men plus a pair of droids, how sad must the Hutts have become?
Boba wants to fight over it, the Pykes want to fight over it. Leave them to it, then step in afterwards when there's only one faction to fight.
The dozens of Pykes, two droids and Cad Bane are there to deal with the new guy who isn't very good at his job. They're not there to intimidate the Hutts. They don't need to. The Hutts and Pykes know each other well enough. If they want to threaten each other's operations, they're not going to do it by meeting up on a desert backwater for a brawl. Whereas Tatooine is the only place to find and hit Boba's operation.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Yeah. Cad Bane is a pretty central character when it comes to the Scum & Villainy in Clone Wars. Not exactly a leader as such, but definitely a well respected member of the under world.
I can highly recommend giving Clone Wars a watch. Whilst not of equal consistency, and some of the episodes induce cringe in me, the majority is pretty awesome stuff. It really showed what can be done with Star Wars when a writer is given more than a movie’s run time to play with.
I'd mostly agree with you, Clone Wars DOES end up a great series....BUUUUTTTT a lot of the early stuff (series 1-3 really) is a HUGE SLOG to get through.
Not sure what happened there, but it starts out with some really awful (and I DO mean mean awful, as in Attack of the Clones awful) dialogue and plotting) and then just suddenly turns into a very well written show out of nowhere,
TBH Rebels had this problem too. Series 1 is very very kiddy friendy in its approach (decent enough, but dont expect much) series 2 was just frankly bad outside of a few episodes, but series 3 onwards is outstanding Star Wars and some of the best animated storytelling from the last 20 odd years..
Anybody whose only exposure to Ahsoka Tano is the frankly rubbish movie really should see Clone wars series 3 onwards I reckon.
Back on topic.
Was this series what I wanted from a show about Boba Fett? NO
Was it the "WORST THING EVAR!!" (in doomcock voice ) NO
Its main problem seemed to be not knowing what it wanted to be, like as if they started filming without a clear idea of what they were doing (does this seem "cough" familiar "cough, Rise of" cough cough?)
Fennic...awesome.
Cobb Vanth.. somehow in one episode even more awesome
Din..awesome.
Boba Fett...errr
Its infuriating. i want so much to love this show, and there are things I really do love, like Cad Bane's portrayal (don't care about the colour difference, he's the most menacing Star Wars villain we have seen in a LOOONG time) and the Rancor ( and yes, i liked the whole "Dances with Tuskens" thing and hoped we'd get more, handled much better than Avatar did it certainly)
Buutt.. the Mod squad was just terrible, and the idea of setting up Fett as a crime lord is cool, but unfortunately Disney do not understand what the words Anti-hero mean.
So we get a load of scenes where Fett is pretty much being a good guy (thats ok in my book as long as I understand where he's coming from) while all the time Fennic is telling him WHAT HE SOULD BE DOING, and is mostly correct.
,
Yes, the Mando episodes were some of the best Star Wars we've seen from Disney, and the early epidoes were intriguing but now I've had time to ponder over it I think the series main issue was not developing Fett' s change of character as well as they should, instead of just rushing through it to get to what Rodriguez is good at (action, obviously)
Thats it for me now ( before i wear out my () buttons).
I gave up on Clone Wars after that god awful duct-taped "movie" they released of the first couple of episodes. I know it got better but I still hear "Sky Guy" and "Snips" in my nightmares!
warboss wrote: I gave up on Clone Wars after that god awful duct-taped "movie" they released of the first couple of episodes. I know it got better but I still hear "Sky Guy" and "Snips" in my nightmares!
Yeah, again, its infuriating.
it really is a very good series...EVENTUALLY.
Its kind of the ANTI-X-files, in that it gets better and better as it goes along.
Amazingly, the resurrected series (7?) from a few years ago is quite possibly the best of the lot.
show.
