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Post by: kodos
it is difficult to put it simple, but:
in the last years unions bargain for salary increases were told by "everyone" to ask for lower increase and keeping the numbers below the official inflation rates to prevent inflation to increase even more
so with high inflation numbers of 5%, workers should just get 3% compensation or even 0% to stabilize the economy
but corporations feel the need, despite still making more profit than ever, to raise prices above the inflation numbers to compensate for future possible loses
it is hard to say that this is not greed if workers should forgo compensation to help the society, but corporations do not
yes the inflation has many different reasons, but telling one group they need to help to keep it down and the other group does the opposite while telling people that they don't have a choice, well this is corporate greed
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Post by: Albertorius
 Rolsheen wrote:It's funny people complaining about a 5% increase on GW stuff. Have you seen how much Coca Cola just increased their prices 40-50% on 2lt bottles
You seem to think that complaining about one thing doesn't allow you to complain about another. This is a miniatures forum. Why would you think it's more likely to see people complaining about soft drinks price increases instead of miniatures price increases?
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Post by: NAVARRO
 Albertorius wrote: Rolsheen wrote:It's funny people complaining about a 5% increase on GW stuff. Have you seen how much Coca Cola just increased their prices 40-50% on 2lt bottles
You seem to think that complaining about one thing doesn't allow you to complain about another. This is a miniatures forum. Why would you think it's more likely to see people complaining about soft drinks price increases instead of miniatures price increases?
This ^ XD
I think this time around these 5% and the absurd new boxed sets with the £100+ mark for just a handful of minis is pushing people out. Regiment boxes getting close to the £35 or £40 is just not something you want to buy multiples of.
I do find that if you drop all rulesets, all GW games and metas etc and just go for minis for other games that you dont need to buy multiples, its doable. Its the game side of GW that is ruining it IMO.
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Post by: Rolsheen
Albertorius wrote: Rolsheen wrote:It's funny people complaining about a 5% increase on GW stuff. Have you seen how much Coca Cola just increased their prices 40-50% on 2lt bottles
You seem to think that complaining about one thing doesn't allow you to complain about another. This is a miniatures forum. Why would you think it's more likely to see people complaining about soft drinks price increases instead of miniatures price increases?
No, by all means you can complain about both, that's everyone's right.
I don't expect people to complain about a soft drinks company on a miniatures forum, I'm not stupid unlike some people on here. I'm simply pointing out that complaining on here is not going to get GW to reverse their decision, if you don't like it don't buy from them. Maybe do some research as to why they increased their prices before venting, like I did on the Cola price increase.
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Post by: NAVARRO
Rolsheen wrote: Albertorius wrote: Rolsheen wrote:It's funny people complaining about a 5% increase on GW stuff. Have you seen how much Coca Cola just increased their prices 40-50% on 2lt bottles
You seem to think that complaining about one thing doesn't allow you to complain about another. This is a miniatures forum. Why would you think it's more likely to see people complaining about soft drinks price increases instead of miniatures price increases?
No, by all means you can complain about both, that's everyone's right.
I don't expect people to complain about a soft drinks company on a miniatures forum, I'm not stupid unlike some people on here. I'm simply pointing out that complaining on here is not going to get GW to reverse their decision, if you don't like it don't buy from them. Maybe do some research as to why they increased their prices before venting, like I did on the Cola price increase.
Maybe try not to call people stupid on the same sentence you say your not... I mean I want to believe you but your making it hard 
Your point is errr what exactly? GW won't change so dont post and dont buy? Oh and research before you have privilege to post your thoughts on a public forum about lil toys increasing prices...
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Post by: Ragweek
We officially have the worse inflation figures in over 30 years. Not really sure why poeple are surprised/ kicking off, over price rises still. I think some poeple have too much time. It would be better spent painting their pile of shame 
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Ragweek wrote:We officially have the worse inflation figures in over 30 years. Not really sure why poeple are surprised/ kicking off, over price rises still. I think some poeple have too much time. It would be better spent painting their pile of shame
Kicking off about corporations posting sob stories about how inflation is forcing them to raise prices while also posting all time record profits, dividends and manager bonuses.
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Post by: Ragweek
 lord_blackfang wrote:Ragweek wrote:We officially have the worse inflation figures in over 30 years. Not really sure why poeple are surprised/ kicking off, over price rises still. I think some poeple have too much time. It would be better spent painting their pile of shame
Kicking off about corporations posting sob stories about how inflation is forcing them to raise prices while also posting all time record profits, dividends and manager bonuses.
The situation is not linier. Believe it or not covid was around for 2 years now. To start off with it was deflationary, ( oil went to 0, poeple stayed at home, buying extra gw stuff = massive profits) . Since then things have exploded. People went back to normal life ish. We now hit the 30 year high inflation and in a capitalist country like ours ( I understand things may be differentin your neck of the woods). we have the supply vs demand thing going on.
To protect their business. Like may other similar businesses, prices have to rise.
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Post by: queen_annes_revenge
lord_blackfang wrote:Ragweek wrote:We officially have the worse inflation figures in over 30 years. Not really sure why poeple are surprised/ kicking off, over price rises still. I think some poeple have too much time. It would be better spent painting their pile of shame
Kicking off about corporations posting sob stories about how inflation is forcing them to raise prices while also posting all time record profits, dividends and manager bonuses.
This. Also putting their products in fancy new packages.
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Post by: Wha-Mu-077
Ragweek wrote: lord_blackfang wrote:Ragweek wrote:We officially have the worse inflation figures in over 30 years. Not really sure why poeple are surprised/ kicking off, over price rises still. I think some poeple have too much time. It would be better spent painting their pile of shame
Kicking off about corporations posting sob stories about how inflation is forcing them to raise prices while also posting all time record profits, dividends and manager bonuses.
The situation is not linier. Believe it or not covid was around for 2 years now. To start off with it was deflationary, ( oil went to 0, poeple stayed at home, buying extra gw stuff = massive profits) . Since then things have exploded. People went back to normal life ish. We now hit the 30 year high inflation and in a capitalist country like ours ( I understand things may be differentin your neck of the woods). we have the supply vs demand thing going on.
To protect their business. Like may other similar businesses, prices have to rise.
Orrr prices have to rise to keep their profits record-high every year, aye?
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Post by: ImAGeek
Ragweek wrote: lord_blackfang wrote:Ragweek wrote:We officially have the worse inflation figures in over 30 years. Not really sure why poeple are surprised/ kicking off, over price rises still. I think some poeple have too much time. It would be better spent painting their pile of shame
Kicking off about corporations posting sob stories about how inflation is forcing them to raise prices while also posting all time record profits, dividends and manager bonuses.
The situation is not linier. Believe it or not covid was around for 2 years now. To start off with it was deflationary, ( oil went to 0, poeple stayed at home, buying extra gw stuff = massive profits) . Since then things have exploded. People went back to normal life ish. We now hit the 30 year high inflation and in a capitalist country like ours ( I understand things may be differentin your neck of the woods). we have the supply vs demand thing going on.
To protect their business. Like may other similar businesses, prices have to rise.
Even if ‘prices have to rise’ was in anyway true, what about Blood Bowl teams, for example, means they need to increase overnight by a fifth of their price?
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Post by: NAVARRO
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:Ragweek wrote: lord_blackfang wrote:Ragweek wrote:We officially have the worse inflation figures in over 30 years. Not really sure why poeple are surprised/ kicking off, over price rises still. I think some poeple have too much time. It would be better spent painting their pile of shame
Kicking off about corporations posting sob stories about how inflation is forcing them to raise prices while also posting all time record profits, dividends and manager bonuses.
The situation is not linier. Believe it or not covid was around for 2 years now. To start off with it was deflationary, ( oil went to 0, poeple stayed at home, buying extra gw stuff = massive profits) . Since then things have exploded. People went back to normal life ish. We now hit the 30 year high inflation and in a capitalist country like ours ( I understand things may be differentin your neck of the woods). we have the supply vs demand thing going on.
To protect their business. Like may other similar businesses, prices have to rise.
Orrr prices have to rise to keep their profits record-high every year, aye?
With the intention to expand on those records even further. They say its capitalism or companies duty to protect their business. I call it something else.
GW is a company putting the pedal down on the accelerator rather than keeping it at cruise speed, do not think otherwise.
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Post by: angryboy2k
Ragweek wrote:We officially have the worse inflation figures in over 30 years. Not really sure why poeple are surprised/ kicking off, over price rises still. I think some poeple have too much time. It would be better spent painting their pile of shame
I think the real reason people are “kicking off” is that we’ve just come out of two years of non-stop price hikes for virtually no reason at all - the first of these coming at the beginning of Covid in a deflationary environment. The only game I play is underworlds, so it’s the only thing I’ve got info on, but since January 2020 we’ve seen warbands go from $35 to $39 to $45 to $50 (Canadian dollars). Now they’re going up again. In the same timeframe we’ve seen starters go from $80 to $100 and now $125. (Canadian prices exclude sales tax, which in BC is 12%, so the actual retail price of warbands has gone from $39.20 to $56. In pounds we’ve gone from £23 to £33 thanks to GW’s additional price padding through the use of fictitious exchange rates that also neglect the fact that the U.K. prices include VAT). Add to this GW’s own investor reports making it clear that they’ve already padded the prices well enough to cover very large material cost increases and it shouldn’t be hard to see why GW latching onto this year’s inflation as an excuse to increase prices once again has annoyed those customers with a memory span longer than a week.
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Post by: Ragweek
angryboy2k wrote:Ragweek wrote:We officially have the worse inflation figures in over 30 years. Not really sure why poeple are surprised/ kicking off, over price rises still. I think some poeple have too much time. It would be better spent painting their pile of shame
I think the real reason people are “kicking off” is that we’ve just come out of two years of non-stop price hikes for virtually no reason at all - the first of these coming at the beginning of Covid in a deflationary environment. The only game I play is underworlds, so it’s the only thing I’ve got info on, but since January 2020 we’ve seen warbands go from $35 to $39 to $45 to $50 (Canadian dollars). Now they’re going up again.
In the same timeframe we’ve seen starters go from $80 to $100 and now $125.
(Canadian prices exclude sales tax, which in BC is 12%, so the actual retail price of warbands has gone from $39.20 to $56. In pounds we’ve gone from £23 to £33 thanks to GW’s additional price padding through the use of fictitious exchange rates that also neglect the fact that the U.K. prices include VAT).
Add to this GW’s own investor reports making it clear that they’ve already padded the prices well enough to cover very large material cost increases and it shouldn’t be hard to see why GW latching onto this year’s inflation as an excuse to increase prices once again and it shouldn’t be hard to see why customers with a memory span longer than a week are annoyed.
I must admit that the blood bowl increases are way above inflation. It really sucks to see the teams going up to around half the price of some third party teams. Also the warcry stuff is getting close to infinity prices . It feels like both systems were sold at lower rates to get people hooked. Now they se to be bringing it in line with other systems.
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Post by: Wha-Mu-077
angryboy2k wrote:Ragweek wrote:We officially have the worse inflation figures in over 30 years. Not really sure why poeple are surprised/ kicking off, over price rises still. I think some poeple have too much time. It would be better spent painting their pile of shame
I think the real reason people are “kicking off” is that we’ve just come out of two years of non-stop price hikes for virtually no reason at all - the first of these coming at the beginning of Covid in a deflationary environment. The only game I play is underworlds, so it’s the only thing I’ve got info on, but since January 2020 we’ve seen warbands go from $35 to $39 to $45 to $50 (Canadian dollars). Now they’re going up again.
In the same timeframe we’ve seen starters go from $80 to $100 and now $125.
(Canadian prices exclude sales tax, which in BC is 12%, so the actual retail price of warbands has gone from $39.20 to $56. In pounds we’ve gone from £23 to £33 thanks to GW’s additional price padding through the use of fictitious exchange rates that also neglect the fact that the U.K. prices include VAT).
Add to this GW’s own investor reports making it clear that they’ve already padded the prices well enough to cover very large material cost increases and it shouldn’t be hard to see why GW latching onto this year’s inflation as an excuse to increase prices once again and it shouldn’t be hard to see why customers with a memory span longer than a week are annoyed.
Man, the British economy must be in shambles, they have an around 25% yearly inflation rate!
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Post by: Ragweek
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:angryboy2k wrote:Ragweek wrote:We officially have the worse inflation figures in over 30 years. Not really sure why poeple are surprised/ kicking off, over price rises still. I think some poeple have too much time. It would be better spent painting their pile of shame
I think the real reason people are “kicking off” is that we’ve just come out of two years of non-stop price hikes for virtually no reason at all - the first of these coming at the beginning of Covid in a deflationary environment. The only game I play is underworlds, so it’s the only thing I’ve got info on, but since January 2020 we’ve seen warbands go from $35 to $39 to $45 to $50 (Canadian dollars). Now they’re going up again.
In the same timeframe we’ve seen starters go from $80 to $100 and now $125.
(Canadian prices exclude sales tax, which in BC is 12%, so the actual retail price of warbands has gone from $39.20 to $56. In pounds we’ve gone from £23 to £33 thanks to GW’s additional price padding through the use of fictitious exchange rates that also neglect the fact that the U.K. prices include VAT).
Add to this GW’s own investor reports making it clear that they’ve already padded the prices well enough to cover very large material cost increases and it shouldn’t be hard to see why GW latching onto this year’s inflation as an excuse to increase prices once again and it shouldn’t be hard to see why customers with a memory span longer than a week are annoyed.
Man, the British economy must be in shambles, they have an around 25% yearly inflation rate!
Nor sure where your getting your figures from. I understand the eu central bank still have their foot on the gas with money printing. So things will go bang their soon enough. The uk figure is around 5.5% inflation. And the US is 7.5% inflation.
Gw raise prices each year, like lego and a billion other things. Just don't buy it if you don't like it? Vote with your money as they saying goes.
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Post by: ImAGeek
The classic saying, ‘vote with your wallet and never ever discuss why’.
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Post by: John Prins
Blood Bowl going up that much probably means it wasn't very profitable in the first place. Somebody at GW did the math and decided it was under-costed for the effort. It seems like a lot of FW stuff is being judged that way.
But resin casting simply won't ever be as profitable as plastic casting. Seems like GW would be better off moving what kits they can to plastic and discontinuing the BIG resin items entirely. Titans and Mantas are cool and all but they're basically display pieces and they can't be shifting enough units to make it really worthwhile for them aside from corporate prestige/advertising.
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Post by: Wha-Mu-077
Ragweek wrote: Wha-Mu-077 wrote:angryboy2k wrote:Ragweek wrote:We officially have the worse inflation figures in over 30 years. Not really sure why poeple are surprised/ kicking off, over price rises still. I think some poeple have too much time. It would be better spent painting their pile of shame
I think the real reason people are “kicking off” is that we’ve just come out of two years of non-stop price hikes for virtually no reason at all - the first of these coming at the beginning of Covid in a deflationary environment. The only game I play is underworlds, so it’s the only thing I’ve got info on, but since January 2020 we’ve seen warbands go from $35 to $39 to $45 to $50 (Canadian dollars). Now they’re going up again.
In the same timeframe we’ve seen starters go from $80 to $100 and now $125.
(Canadian prices exclude sales tax, which in BC is 12%, so the actual retail price of warbands has gone from $39.20 to $56. In pounds we’ve gone from £23 to £33 thanks to GW’s additional price padding through the use of fictitious exchange rates that also neglect the fact that the U.K. prices include VAT).
Add to this GW’s own investor reports making it clear that they’ve already padded the prices well enough to cover very large material cost increases and it shouldn’t be hard to see why GW latching onto this year’s inflation as an excuse to increase prices once again and it shouldn’t be hard to see why customers with a memory span longer than a week are annoyed.
Man, the British economy must be in shambles, they have an around 25% yearly inflation rate!
Nor sure where your getting your figures from. I understand the eu central bank still have their foot on the gas with money printing. So things will go bang their soon enough. The uk figure is around 5.5% inflation. And the US is 7.5% inflation.
Gw raise prices each year, like lego and a billion other things. Just don't buy it if you don't like it? Vote with your money as they saying goes.
It's a joke about how the inflation would have to be around 25%, for the excuse of "they're just raising their prices because inflation!" to be true, given that's roughly by how much the Underworld starters have gone up by.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
 John Prins wrote:Blood Bowl going up that much probably means it wasn't very profitable in the first place. Somebody at GW did the math and decided it was under-costed for the effort. It seems like a lot of FW stuff is being judged that way.
But resin casting simply won't ever be as profitable as plastic casting. Seems like GW would be better off moving what kits they can to plastic and discontinuing the BIG resin items entirely. Titans and Mantas are cool and all but they're basically display pieces and they can't be shifting enough units to make it really worthwhile for them aside from corporate prestige/advertising.
Sorry to quote you, as this isn’t meant as an attack on your view in particular. More the wider assumption.
Blood Bowl, like all games made by anyone ever that has a profit motive, needs to pull its weight.
And Blood Bowl is the game GW in particular make which has a notably low price ceiling. Very generally speaking, perhaps a couple of team boxes per player. Not allowing for particular special characters.
That’s a price ceiling somewhat unheard of in GW’s offerings. Especially if like many you play in a league which could be any number of players, only one of whom needs to own the rule book.
It was also one of the first (if not the first) Specialist Games to return. We need only look to it’s ongoing support to be reasonably confident it’s been a success financially.
The assumption that “it wasn’t profitable in the first place” seems, by comparison, somewhat unfounded. And again, I’m not targeting you specifically. However, I’m perfectly willing to accept, concede and adopt the stance that “ GW looked at it and figured ‘if we just up the prices, this game is more than profitable enough for us to make even more lovely lovely munneh’ and the players will pay it”.
Now. Of course. For absolute clarity. None of us here, and or does anyone outside of GW’s very own bean counters know that sort of breakdown, because GW don’t publish such things in such details. So I’m very much happy to be proven wrong, should such details somehow emerge.
TL/DR version? Be careful about assumptions, because us mere tosspots simply do not have anything like enough data to start drawing conclusion.
Finally? This Is Not Me Having A Pop At The Poster I Quoted. This Is Me Addressing A Wider Concern Of Possible Misinformation By Demonstrating Just How Little Solid Information Us Mere Plebs Have To Work With.
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Post by: Ragweek
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:Ragweek wrote: Wha-Mu-077 wrote:angryboy2k wrote:Ragweek wrote:We officially have the worse inflation figures in over 30 years. Not really sure why poeple are surprised/ kicking off, over price rises still. I think some poeple have too much time. It would be better spent painting their pile of shame
I think the real reason people are “kicking off” is that we’ve just come out of two years of non-stop price hikes for virtually no reason at all - the first of these coming at the beginning of Covid in a deflationary environment. The only game I play is underworlds, so it’s the only thing I’ve got info on, but since January 2020 we’ve seen warbands go from $35 to $39 to $45 to $50 (Canadian dollars). Now they’re going up again.
In the same timeframe we’ve seen starters go from $80 to $100 and now $125.
(Canadian prices exclude sales tax, which in BC is 12%, so the actual retail price of warbands has gone from $39.20 to $56. In pounds we’ve gone from £23 to £33 thanks to GW’s additional price padding through the use of fictitious exchange rates that also neglect the fact that the U.K. prices include VAT).
Add to this GW’s own investor reports making it clear that they’ve already padded the prices well enough to cover very large material cost increases and it shouldn’t be hard to see why GW latching onto this year’s inflation as an excuse to increase prices once again and it shouldn’t be hard to see why customers with a memory span longer than a week are annoyed.
Man, the British economy must be in shambles, they have an around 25% yearly inflation rate!
Nor sure where your getting your figures from. I understand the eu central bank still have their foot on the gas with money printing. So things will go bang their soon enough. The uk figure is around 5.5% inflation. And the US is 7.5% inflation.
Gw raise prices each year, like lego and a billion other things. Just don't buy it if you don't like it? Vote with your money as they saying goes.
It's a joke about how the inflation would have to be around 25%, for the excuse of "they're just raising their prices because inflation!" to be true, given that's roughly by how much the Underworld starters have gone up by.
Classic joke! You do realise that 5.5% is the average in the UK. Some things have gone up in the UK by the amount you state and I would wager in your country too.
Energy bills were a big driving force behind December’s CPI inflation rate, with prices of electricity, gas and other fuels up by 22.7% compared to last year.
Energy prices are critical as they effect everyone.
However it would be a pain in the ass to say x has gone up by..... and y has ......
That's why governments and GW use averages.
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Post by: Samko
Is there a list for the prices change in € too ?
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Post by: John Prins
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The assumption that “it wasn’t profitable in the first place” seems, by comparison, somewhat unfounded.
Minor quibble in return, I said "Wasn't very profitable." I assumed Blood Bowl was profitable.
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Post by: JWBS
I just checked my Alchemist Workshop basket and they seem to have bumped their prices up already. I must say I find this to be rather slimy behaviour tbh. In fact I'm irritated enough to strike them from my list of retailers. I'm surprised by how annoyed I am 
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Post by: Dudeface
Samko wrote:
Is there a list for the prices change in € too ?
I've not seen one anywhere, only that one in $$$. Automatically Appended Next Post:
Really? I really doubt this costs them that much nor drives prices up overly. They need to remove old stock and update the manuals with new releases, it'll likely require a new box (unsure of legality) at that point anyway, so the only real additional wastage is the change to the printed imagery.
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Post by: AngryAngel80
Yeah the same kit from then, that somehow is costing them leaps and bounds more to make which is bogus. How much has that kit gone up ? Like about 150% higher ? Dang, inflation am I right ? Give me a break. Automatically Appended Next Post: drbored wrote:
Oh I know I'm treading a fine line here. Let's see, how best to explain it.
Inflation right now is currently being driven by two major forces. The normal 4-5% inflation is what we'd expect from the Federal Reserve Bank (which, despite the name, is actually a private entity that has managed to take control of the US dollar).
The other 2-4% of the inflation we've seen over the past two years has been due to supply issues (yes, supply issues caused by covid, but supply issues nonetheless). Scarcity drives prices up, and that goes for everything. On top of that, you've got shortages of drivers to deliver product, boats having to be rerouted across whole oceans just to offload their stuff, and even an issue where a boat in the Atlantic caught fire and is loaded full of VW and Porsche vehicles that now, due to maritime law, is 'finders keepers'. Yes, this is a real thing that just happened.
Saying all of inflation is due to corporate greed is very misleading, because there are real world issues out there right now that are contributing to a large portion of that inflation.
Other factors include overleveraging of banks and hedgefunds, RRP being over 160 billion dollars (a rate of leverage used by banks to increase liquidity), as well as huge Chinese land developers hitting hundreds of billions of dollars of bankruptcy... There's a lot involved that honestly has little to do with corporate greed.
One bigger reason that many businesses are making money hand over fist is because they're paying the same amount of money for their workers (wages haven't increased much over the past 20 years) and they're paying fewer of them (how many food joints are drive-thru only still?) and working those that are there even harder, causing higher turn-over. This drives profit up because of lack of expense, while spending habits haven't changed despite the pandemic.
There are many other issues that can be extrapolated from this, but I think that summary should suffice for this forum.
Oh, and to the point about 'we have a loyal customer base that isn't going to jump to another brand' are they wrong? Set aside the denizens of Dakkadakka, are they really wrong that they've managed to create a brand that people tend to stick around in? How many stories have I heard of people that play as kids only to come back in their 30's or 40's or even 50's to get back into the hobby, or people that have been hobbying for decades. Yeah, those people may have sizeable collections of other miniature brands, but Warhammer plays a big role.
Sure but they raise these prices every year higher than inflation, they just use these issues as the reason for it this time. If it was a once very rarely kind of thing I doubt people would raise as much of a stink but this is the meat of it. They do it just because it's been a year, now they are like " Oh and it's not bad this time because we have to ! " It's bogus and just a cop out for cheap sympathy for the devil. Automatically Appended Next Post: Rolsheen wrote: Albertorius wrote: Rolsheen wrote:It's funny people complaining about a 5% increase on GW stuff. Have you seen how much Coca Cola just increased their prices 40-50% on 2lt bottles
You seem to think that complaining about one thing doesn't allow you to complain about another. This is a miniatures forum. Why would you think it's more likely to see people complaining about soft drinks price increases instead of miniatures price increases?
No, by all means you can complain about both, that's everyone's right.
I don't expect people to complain about a soft drinks company on a miniatures forum, I'm not stupid unlike some people on here. I'm simply pointing out that complaining on here is not going to get GW to reverse their decision, if you don't like it don't buy from them. Maybe do some research as to why they increased their prices before venting, like I did on the Cola price increase.
So Mr Wizard, if an online forum is not about discussing things you like and dislike of the subject matter, what is it for ? Just some empty void of fawning over a company and echo chamber of love for it ? It's a place for opinions, even ones some may dislike reading or acknowledging. For someone with such a low view of some of us, I'd expect you to know that. Guess understanding the feelings of your fellow posters is too expensive with all this inflation going around. Automatically Appended Next Post: lord_blackfang wrote:Ragweek wrote:We officially have the worse inflation figures in over 30 years. Not really sure why poeple are surprised/ kicking off, over price rises still. I think some poeple have too much time. It would be better spent painting their pile of shame
Kicking off about corporations posting sob stories about how inflation is forcing them to raise prices while also posting all time record profits, dividends and manager bonuses.
That's a bingo ! It's about calling out a company for their sob story when they do this literally year on year but this time cry the inflation made me do it. It's a bogus story when they would have done this if costs dropped across the board otherwise.
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Post by: techsoldaten
2 special factors that affect GW PLC.
- Shrinkflation: the 5-man kits give you less than you got 5 years ago. You pay more for 2 boxes than you would for one.
- Optimized Pricing: let's say the cost per model for a 5 man kit is $10. The cost for a single character is $40. By gouging on the mandatory HQ, GW splits the difference in keeping the prices high.
The real cost of price increases isn't solely inflation. In 2008, I spent about $800 on a Black Legion army consisting of several characters, a couple Daemon Princes, about 30 CSM, 2x 3x Bikes, 3 havoc squads, 2 squads of Terminators, 6 Obliterators, 2 Predators, a Land Raider plus paints and hobby supplies (I'm forgetting a couple things.)
Doing pricing from the GW web store, the same thing today would be roughly $2000. Sure, the models look a little nicer and the paints have changed. But the cumulative rate of inflation since 2008 is about 30%, while the actual cost is about 150% higher.
That's GW price increases.
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Post by: kodos
 AngryAngel80 wrote:Yeah the same kit from then, that somehow is costing them leaps and bounds more to make which is bogus. How much has that kit gone up ? Like about 150% higher ? Dang, inflation am I right ? Give me a break.
it is 160% since release, if you count the upgrade sprue worth 10 models, it is 320% from release if you ignore the new sprue
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Post by: AngryAngel80
 kodos wrote: AngryAngel80 wrote:Yeah the same kit from then, that somehow is costing them leaps and bounds more to make which is bogus. How much has that kit gone up ? Like about 150% higher ? Dang, inflation am I right ? Give me a break.
it is 160% since release, if you count the upgrade sprue worth 10 models, it is 320% from release if you ignore the new sprue
I kept the analysis down to do GW a solid, but yeah the cost of that ancient cadian kit has sky rocketed and for less product over all. This is just a case of it I know personally, but as another poster said, with shrinkflation this is easy to see in many other areas as well.
That extra upgrade sprue is priceless though, you get a sweet bandana head man ! A head with a bandana, hot dang !
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Post by: queen_annes_revenge
It's scandalous that they increase prices on old stock like that. The prices should go down as things get older, not up. They are literally the only brand seemingly in the entire world which does so and people are somehow fine with.
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Post by: Overread
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:It's scandalous that they increase prices on old stock like that. The prices should go down as things get older, not up. They are literally the only brand seemingly in the entire world which does so and people are somehow fine with.
Well I mean aside from the rest of the wargaming market?
Whilst GW might have the most rises, I honestly don't really see any other brands lowering prices. A few might when they've historically had higher prices or if they hit really tough times and need to drum up sales fast. Or if they go for a material change to plastics or such; but as that often comes with a big up-front investment cost or increased shipping (using overseas) the customer doesn't always see a cheaper price.
The only reason many other products devalue is because the company wants you to buy the new thing. The Old Apple iPhone is "out of date" and they want the stock gone so that you are encouraged to buy the new model. And in general such products show a shift in technology and features.
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Post by: kodos
 Overread wrote: queen_annes_revenge wrote:It's scandalous that they increase prices on old stock like that. The prices should go down as things get older, not up. They are literally the only brand seemingly in the entire world which does so and people are somehow fine with.
Well I mean aside from the rest of the wargaming market?
you mean that rest of the wargaming market were models and rules are going in sale months before they are replaced with new ones?
I have never seen any other wargaming company increasing the price on something that they are replacing with something new, specially not rules/books
and you actually can tell if a new edition or model update is coming around by what is going on sale
77922
Post by: Overread
kodos wrote: Overread wrote: queen_annes_revenge wrote:It's scandalous that they increase prices on old stock like that. The prices should go down as things get older, not up. They are literally the only brand seemingly in the entire world which does so and people are somehow fine with.
Well I mean aside from the rest of the wargaming market?
you mean that rest of the wargaming market were models and rules are going in sale months before they are replaced with new ones?
I have never seen any other wargaming company increasing the price on something that they are replacing with something new, specially not rules/books
and you actually can tell if a new edition or model update is coming around by what is going on sale
GW rules also devalue when they go out of cycle, just only through 3rd parties as GW just withdraws them from sale. Though granted they will charge full price right up until the change over, though I'm led to understand that they will do a swap if you buy recently (and have proof of purchase) for things like codex (though its not something I've ever done).
But my point is that other brands don't devalue over time. The replacement or new models might not come with a price right, but they don't come with a price reduction either. And over time their range will increase even if purely by inflation and nothing else. I'm not denying that GW increases prices more so than most. I'm simply saying that the wargaming market isn't like many others and the products don't devalue over time. Heck look at Infinity, their models don't devalue (direct from them) and they pull things from sale all the time even without replacing them and keep those models in the rules as they cycle around their range.
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Post by: kodos
it is not about a general increase or decrease in value but really just about the general RRP price increase
(and than the value of a Codex that is replaced next week is something very different from other companies books who are still valid in 5 years)
New higher prices for everything instead of just the new stock is pretty unique even within the wargaming market
It is only GW who is going to increase the price in line with the general price increase, even if it is replaced next week or if the stock is on the shelf for years already, where other companies reduce the price to clear stock before the new stuff comes in
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Post by: A Town Called Malus
I remember the "half the size of the box, only reduce the cost by a small amount that resulted in a net price increase of around a third for the same amount of models" which happened with LOTR.
Since then GW can feth off with any sob stories about "needing" to raise prices. It is corporate greed. Always has been, always will be.
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Post by: Geifer
 A Town Called Malus wrote:I remember the "half the size of the box, only reduce the cost by a small amount that resulted in a net price increase of around a third for the same amount of models" which happened with LOTR.
Since then GW can feth off with any sob stories about "needing" to raise prices. It is corporate greed. Always has been, always will be.
Only by a third? How uncharacteristically generous of GW. When they cut Dire Avengers in half they increased the price by 73%* on an already dated kit.
Fun fact, the price has gone up further in the meantime and Dire Avengers are now 110%* more expensive than when the unit was sold in a ten man box.
*In €, other currencies may vary.
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Post by: Spectral Ceramite
I was gunna buy this new Nachmund but at $320 from GW and $250 from Local store (with discount) is a bit much. Usually would be $280 or $220 (from local), but tbh I only wanted the Eldar so will pass for this. Went up $30-40 in Aus (already massive mark up).
I understand they need to go up cause of inflation etc. Cause of same reason, I need to save my money, so I think will wait out for cheaper models on ebay etc or not get altogether no sweat off my sack.
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Post by: Albertorius
In my case, the general vote of all the parts of my brain seems to be "you don't need that stuff quite that much" when accounting for the price.
It might be that the old neuron jar decides to change the vote for some other new product, but for the moment...
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Post by: kirotheavenger
GW prices don't "need" to go up at all.
They would still have a very profitable business if they just took their rising prices on the chin.
They only "need" to raise prices to maintain their (exceptionally high) profit margin.
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Post by: Sersi
Yeah... these prices are starting to getting eye watering at this point. I won't get all dramatic and say I'm quitting GW; but I will be slowing down my purchases and cancelling some new projects I was considering. I still have a closet full of unopened kits I need to get after. That'll occupy my time for a while.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
We were promised a 5% increase no? 10% for Blood Bowl and terrain right?
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/stormcast-eternals-lord-commander-bastian-carthalos-2021
This AoS fellow went from $40 to $45, 12.5%, I won't go through everything but apparently they just couldn't help themselves to a couple extra points.
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Post by: beast_gts
No - WarCom wrote:In many cases, this will be about 5%. So, as an example of what you can expect on most kits, a box of Space Marine Intercessors will go up just £1 from £35 to £36.*
A few things are going up about 10% (e.g. books, scenery, resin miniatures), and there are a couple of outliers (e.g. Blood Bowl teams and metal miniatures) which are going up around 20%.
They worded it vaguely enough to give themselves some wiggle room.
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Post by: privateer4hire
Yeah. The $10 increase from $40 to $50 for blood bowl teams is ABOUT 20%.
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Post by: A Town Called Malus
Hey, if you round to the nearest 20 then it works.
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Post by: JWBS
It seems to be about a 10% increase, looking at my shopping list, so yeah they lied.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
JWBS wrote:It seems to be about a 10% increase, looking at my shopping list, so yeah they lied.
They didn't lie. They didn't tell the whole truth. Like with Australian/New Zealand/Japanese prices. They said that they would not be raising the prices like they had in the rest of the world. This is technically true, it's just not the whole truth. The whole truth was that: 1). They didn't raise the prices on any existing products. 2). All future products got the same 5%-20% price increase that everything else got.
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Post by: A Town Called Malus
 H.B.M.C. wrote:JWBS wrote:It seems to be about a 10% increase, looking at my shopping list, so yeah they lied.
They didn't lie. They didn't tell the whole truth. Like with Australian/New Zealand/Japanese prices. They said that they would not be raising the prices like they had in the rest of the world. This is technically true, it's just not the whole truth. The whole truth was that: 1). They didn't raise the prices on any existing products. 2). All future products got the same 5%-20% price increase that everything else got.
Yeah, note they said "In many cases, this will be about 5%." Many is doing a lot of work there. They could raise the majority of their prices by 10% or more and still have "many" cases where the increase was around 5%. Many does not mean all, or even most. Many people had Sisters of Battle armies prior to their plastic revamp, for example.
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Post by: privateer4hire
True!
One of the sadder things I have read from a gaming standpoint is someone said that the crazy price increases had them CONSIDERING not buying. That’s a strong commitment. And one that’s likely to have GW rapidly retracting the latest increases.
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Post by: Mr Insomniac
I am now NOT buying. The last round of increases made me reduce my spending - I very rarely buy direct, but live within a short drive of 3 GW stores as well as a couple of independent stockists - because I really had to start weighing up how much just getting a couple of things a month is costing me.
I’ve been playing nearly all systems for about 23 years now, but when the absolute basic things I HAVE to pay for in order to live are going up stupidly - seemingly every week - the things I don’t need have to be cut. I wanted to start an Eldar army… Nope. Chalnath… nope. Nachmund… nope. I started a Soulblight army but quickly realised the investment I’d need to make meant it was unfeasible. I really want to get involved with the upcoming Heresy release but dread to think how much the launch set will be. Combine this with rules (for 40k at least) that more often than not completely knock the wind out of my sails (I collect Farsighted Enclaves and run the 8… Thanks for the Tau codex GW) before I do even plan what to purchase and I’ll just get by using what I have already.
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Post by: Sledgehammer
I started playing in 2014. I got two Ork Dakka jets to convert into imperial fighters. They were $35 dollars each at that point in time, now they are $80 each.
LOTR used to have double the amount of models in the kits AND for less price than they charge today. We also transparently know that those models had great ROI compared to the rest of their range.
There really isn't any reason for this level of increase in prices.
Having been through 6th, 7th, and 8th, I have no interest in 9th. All of those books are sitting on my shelf taking up space and I'm unwilling to shell out another $100 - $200 just play, only for them to sit there when the next edition releases. It's gotten beyond ridiculous.
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Post by: zombie_sky_diver
 Sledgehammer wrote:
LOTR used to have double the amount of models in the kits AND for less price than they charge today. We also transparently know that those models had great ROI compared to the rest of their range.
There really isn't any reason for this level of increase in prices.
It's also extremely insulting the prices they ask for crapcast... sorry, Finecast LotR models. $50 for a finecast character. $75 for Gundabad Orcs. And the quality is HORRIBLE. The worst GW has to offer.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
I really need to find out which 3d printers are supported in Egypt. Automatically Appended Next Post:  privateer4hire wrote:
One of the sadder things I have read from a gaming standpoint is someone said that the crazy price increases had them CONSIDERING not buying. That’s a strong commitment. And one that’s likely to have GW rapidly retracting the latest increases.
I remember when I decided rising prices meant I would not buy a book, a magazine, a mini or a bit from GW. That was around... 2001 or 02? When Tomb Kings came out.
Wonder how long that lasted.
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Post by: Albertorius
Last book I bought from GW not part of a box set was... hm. First Newcromunda sourcebook.
Yeah, that showed me what I have to do going forward.
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Post by: Not Online!!!
Question, did they also hike prices on tyranid warriors?
Because i have an inkling they once were cheaper just recently?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
They've put the prices up on everything with the exception of all currently released products from prior to the increase in Oz/NZ/Japan/China.
All other minis, including new releases, have received a 5%-20% increase.
Not 100% certain if that included Forge World or not...
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Post by: kirotheavenger
It does include Forgeworld, that's typically gone up about 10%.
Which is a really big deal given the already absurd prices they were asking for.
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Post by: Not Online!!!
H.B.M.C. wrote:They've put the prices up on everything with the exception of all currently released products from prior to the increase in Oz/NZ/Japan/China. All other minis, including new releases, have received a 5%-20% increase. Not 100% certain if that included Forge World or not...
with exchange as it currently is for me atleast fw in $ is no concern really, however it wasn't my imagination then that warriors went from 45ish -50 chf... bit wierd that the malcador i ordered is cheaper than 9 warriors, but i guess that little potential side project just commited an imagination world existence. Then again can we appreciate the fact that a malcador / many things from FW are now cheaper comparatively to normal elite troops in a decentish number?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Depends where you are. Forge World products for Australian customers sit around 40% more expensive than UK prices because *mumble mumble mumble*.
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Post by: Not Online!!!
H.B.M.C. wrote:Depends where you are. Forge World products for Australian customers sit around 40% more expensive than UK prices because *mumble mumble mumble*.
I get the dreaded rest of the world category, despite being in a country that is in EFTA with the UK.Alas if they were to fix an exchange rate in CHF i'd pay quitelikely even more
Frankly GW's magic-wonderland exchange rate of currency can go shove off, its nothing more than nickle and diming players for the sake of pure profit but it works for GW currently, shame though that i see an ever lower rate of new players and especially an ever lower rate of their retention.
especially since a 2000pts army nowadays ammounts to sometimes more then what i have to pay locally for a decent gaming PC and some games ontop of it. NVM a full 3d printer set-up.
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Post by: Klickor
The lotr stuff got hit by about a 20% increase on FW. My previous order a year ago is 22% more expensive now.
At least one plastic kit got a 33% price increase as well. On average the whole range most have gotten at least 10% more expensive if not 12-15%.
40k and AoS didnt get hit too bad since it is mostly plastic models but LotR are a minority plastic and there are some factions that are only in metal or resin. FW precis are also very relevant for LotR over 40k/AoS since the majority of the new releases the last few years are FW resin and not GW plastic for that range.
I bought a recast Quickbeam (named Ent character) that is indistinguishable in quality from a real FW one (legit perfect cast) for the low low price of 125SEK instead the 726SEK it costs on FW. 10 SEK = 1 USD. It is quite funny that the price increase alone on that model was about the same as the total price of it from a recaster. The larger the difference in price the easier it will be for people to justify it to themselves to buy from another source. Just bought the model to see how good the quality of the recaster was and not because I even planned to use it. No way I would ever impulse buy anything from FW with their prices.
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Post by: JWBS
H.B.M.C. wrote:JWBS wrote:It seems to be about a 10% increase, looking at my shopping list, so yeah they lied.
They didn't lie. They didn't tell the whole truth.
Like with Australian/New Zealand/Japanese prices. They said that they would not be raising the prices like they had in the rest of the world. This is technically true, it's just not the whole truth. The whole truth was that:
1). They didn't raise the prices on any existing products.
2). All future products got the same 5%-20% price increase that everything else got.
They said that a few things would be going up by 10%, look at the announcement. This was a flat out lie.
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Post by: Eldarsif
I kind of hope, with the ever increasing prices, that players around the world will start playing lower point games. Because with the current price increases and sticking at 2000 points the game can soon fall prey to the same forces that hobbled Warhammer Fantasy.
I just know that locally I am playing more and more 1000 point AoS games and having a blast.
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Post by: GaroRobe
 Eldarsif wrote:I kind of hope, with the ever increasing prices, that players around the world will start playing lower point games. Because with the current price increases and sticking at 2000 points the game can soon fall prey to the same forces that hobbled Warhammer Fantasy.
I just know that locally I am playing more and more 1000 point AoS games and having a blast.
GW counters by slashing the point costs of models, forcing even players wanting to play 1000 point games to buy double the models. The plastic crack house always wins 
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Post by: JWBS
I'm going to buy my GSC, Chaos Knights, and a load of the new HH boxes and then I'm also done buying. I had considered myself hobby price insensitive for the past couple of years, with a monthly budget of £300 (not because I have a huge amount of discretionary cash but because when I quit smoking for the final time I decided to spend my cigarette money entirely on hobby I thought this would help the process and it did, and this happened to be £10 every single day). But yeah that was some time ago now that I kicked my addiction, the splurging was fun but probably not necessary, and if I look at this objectively, with this latest rise, it's no longer fun either. The prices are too high and they have now lost me after they release the stuff I've been looking forward to for the past little while.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
JWBS wrote:I'm going to buy my GSC, Chaos Knights, and a load of the new HH boxes and then I'm also done buying. I had considered myself hobby price insensitive for the past couple of years, with a monthly budget of £300 (not because I have a huge amount of discretionary cash but because when I quit smoking for the final time I decided to spend my cigarette money entirely on hobby I thought this would help the process and it did, and this happened to be £10 every single day). But yeah that was some time ago now that I kicked my addiction, the splurging was fun but probably not necessary, and if I look at this objectively, with this latest rise, it's no longer fun either. The prices are too high and they have now lost me after they release the stuff I've been looking forward to for the past little while.
Congrats tho!
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Post by: kirotheavenger
I wonder if we'll see the rise of acceptance of recasters like you see in the HH community.
In HH no one really bats an eye if you've got recasts. It often operates on a "don't ask, don't tell" policy, but in some places it's openly discussed and rarely will anyone call you out for it.
The higher prices get the more accepted recasts will become.
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Post by: BigOscar
Eesh, a lot of these rises seem massively out of touch with reality. Single, regular size, hero figures were already absolutely delusional in their price, but they've now gotten even more expensive?
Looks like ebay will be my main source of models from now on, which is a huge shame for FLGS's, but I can't justify paying some of these prices.
Weirdly, makes me more tempted to sign up to the Stormbringer magazine set though as that collection of models suddenly got a lot more valuable.
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Post by: NAVARRO
The question is how much does it cost to get an average 2000pts army with rules and all. What is the overall number we are looking now?
This total will now compete with things like gaming PCs or Last gen consoles etc.
It already competed with that but now I think its evidently a lesser value in comparison.
There are some cars cheaper than full GW armies and that is a much better gift than some freaking plastic toy miniatures.
I know some will argument the type of entertainment it gives is different enough but for me at the end of the day plastic miniatures are just plastic. Theres nothing technological or worth framing on a wall about them.
And before someone says about modelling as craft activity... well my friends wanna do crafting you can do it with a fraction of price and with no plastic.
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Post by: JWBS
lord_blackfang wrote:JWBS wrote:I'm going to buy my GSC, Chaos Knights, and a load of the new HH boxes and then I'm also done buying. I had considered myself hobby price insensitive for the past couple of years, with a monthly budget of £300 (not because I have a huge amount of discretionary cash but because when I quit smoking for the final time I decided to spend my cigarette money entirely on hobby I thought this would help the process and it did, and this happened to be £10 every single day). But yeah that was some time ago now that I kicked my addiction, the splurging was fun but probably not necessary, and if I look at this objectively, with this latest rise, it's no longer fun either. The prices are too high and they have now lost me after they release the stuff I've been looking forward to for the past little while.
Congrats tho!
Thanks!
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
JWBS wrote:I'm going to buy my GSC, Chaos Knights, and a load of the new HH boxes and then I'm also done buying. I had considered myself hobby price insensitive for the past couple of years, with a monthly budget of £300 (not because I have a huge amount of discretionary cash but because when I quit smoking for the final time I decided to spend my cigarette money entirely on hobby I thought this would help the process and it did, and this happened to be £10 every single day). But yeah that was some time ago now that I kicked my addiction, the splurging was fun but probably not necessary, and if I look at this objectively, with this latest rise, it's no longer fun either. The prices are too high and they have now lost me after they release the stuff I've been looking forward to for the past little while.
That's the way to do it! Replace a harmful addiction with uh... a slightly less harmful one!
But wow, £300  Makes me look like a miser.
Maybe now I'll finally address the closet of Shame. Every single item in it was once a coveted purchase with a whole plan behind it.
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Post by: Dudeface
 NAVARRO wrote:The question is how much does it cost to get an average 2000pts army with rules and all. What is the overall number we are looking now?
This total will now compete with things like gaming PCs or Last gen consoles etc.
There are some cars cheaper than full GW armies and that is a much better gift than some freaking plastic toy miniatures.
Snipped bits out, but come on? 2nd hand cars are worth almost as much as new cars right now and new ones are like pixie dust and shooting up in price. Being a stickler for low model count cheaper armies as well: Rulebook, codex, basic knight army (not saying it's good) - 4 helverins, castellan, knight of choice and 2 warglaives is £313.15 from a retailer like darksphere. What cars are you buying?
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Post by: Albertorius
Dudeface wrote: NAVARRO wrote:The question is how much does it cost to get an average 2000pts army with rules and all. What is the overall number we are looking now?
This total will now compete with things like gaming PCs or Last gen consoles etc.
There are some cars cheaper than full GW armies and that is a much better gift than some freaking plastic toy miniatures.
Snipped bits out, but come on? 2nd hand cars are worth almost as much as new cars right now and new ones are like pixie dust and shooting up in price. Being a stickler for low model count cheaper armies as well: Rulebook, codex, basic knight army (not saying it's good) - 4 helverins, castellan, knight of choice and 2 warglaives is £313.15 from a retailer like darksphere. What cars are you buying?
There's a difference between "some cars are cheaper than full GW armies" and "some cars are cheaper than the cheapest army I can think about", you know.
That said... this one?
https://www.coches.net/chrysler-neon-20-16v-le-4p-gasolina-2001-en-madrid-51506978-covo.aspx
Which is funny because it's about as old as the cadian sprues.
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Post by: NAVARRO
Dudeface wrote: NAVARRO wrote:The question is how much does it cost to get an average 2000pts army with rules and all. What is the overall number we are looking now?
This total will now compete with things like gaming PCs or Last gen consoles etc.
There are some cars cheaper than full GW armies and that is a much better gift than some freaking plastic toy miniatures.
Snipped bits out, but come on? 2nd hand cars are worth almost as much as new cars right now and new ones are like pixie dust and shooting up in price. Being a stickler for low model count cheaper armies as well: Rulebook, codex, basic knight army (not saying it's good) - 4 helverins, castellan, knight of choice and 2 warglaives is £313.15 from a retailer like darksphere. What cars are you buying?
I was referring to average sized armies not the cheaper you can find and not on discount.
What I was trying to say is that for a parent thinking on his kids gifts or someone above 18 just curious about starting, going to a GW store to check how much he would need in therms of starting and getting a full army for play... Dont forget you will need paints, brushes, tools and all.
Most people starting point is getting all official products on official GW stores this is the ideal situation for GW ( not for us I know) but this is where you first start crunching the numbers and check the total... I was thinking something around £500 - £800.
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Post by: JWBS
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:JWBS wrote:I'm going to buy my GSC, Chaos Knights, and a load of the new HH boxes and then I'm also done buying. I had considered myself hobby price insensitive for the past couple of years, with a monthly budget of £300 (not because I have a huge amount of discretionary cash but because when I quit smoking for the final time I decided to spend my cigarette money entirely on hobby I thought this would help the process and it did, and this happened to be £10 every single day). But yeah that was some time ago now that I kicked my addiction, the splurging was fun but probably not necessary, and if I look at this objectively, with this latest rise, it's no longer fun either. The prices are too high and they have now lost me after they release the stuff I've been looking forward to for the past little while.
That's the way to do it! Replace a harmful addiction with uh... a slightly less harmful one!
But wow, £300 Makes me look like a miser.
Maybe now I'll finally address the closet of Shame. Every single item in it was once a coveted purchase with a whole plan behind it.
I stopped shoving the entire £300 into the pile of shame after a while, and I also bought a lot of nice hobby stuff that wasn't entirely minis (eg I got a nice printer and I refreshed all my paints which I guess are both still minis, but I bough a bunch of timber and lighting and built myself a nice hobby area with home made desks and great lighting setup, which optimistically I classified as a home improvement) but yeah my pile of unpainted minis built up quite fast and can definitely not be considered as planned purchases, I literally just bought whatever I wanted and put it aside, occasionally admiring the big stack of boxes.
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Post by: kodos
well, if we talk about "cheap armies" with 400€ of total costs
that is twice as much as the average historical R&F army, you know those game type no one ever wants to play because it is too expensive to buy enough models for a standard sized game
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Post by: Dudeface
Albertorius wrote:Dudeface wrote: NAVARRO wrote:The question is how much does it cost to get an average 2000pts army with rules and all. What is the overall number we are looking now?
This total will now compete with things like gaming PCs or Last gen consoles etc.
There are some cars cheaper than full GW armies and that is a much better gift than some freaking plastic toy miniatures.
Snipped bits out, but come on? 2nd hand cars are worth almost as much as new cars right now and new ones are like pixie dust and shooting up in price. Being a stickler for low model count cheaper armies as well: Rulebook, codex, basic knight army (not saying it's good) - 4 helverins, castellan, knight of choice and 2 warglaives is £313.15 from a retailer like darksphere. What cars are you buying?
There's a difference between "some cars are cheaper than full GW armies" and "some cars are cheaper than the cheapest army I can think about", you know.
That said... this one?
https://www.coches.net/chrysler-neon-20-16v-le-4p-gasolina-2001-en-madrid-51506978-covo.aspx
Which is funny because it's about as old as the cadian sprues.
I didn't invalidate the statement in any way, even if you double that £600 is not going to get you anything other than an old banger in the UK. Further to that when you add the caveat of "must be full price" and "average sized" whatever that means and it's not exactly quantifiable. I could buy a 2k army at full RRP for the same price as a mid-range gaming PC and far cheaper than any car worth it's salt, never mind using discounters or 2nd hand purchases. They're just daft comparisons.
It's like saying "gee bread sure has gone up in price, imagine how many loaves (from a local artisan bakery, freshly baked) I'd need for a space marine captain now!"
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Post by: NAVARRO
Dudeface wrote: Albertorius wrote:Dudeface wrote: NAVARRO wrote:The question is how much does it cost to get an average 2000pts army with rules and all. What is the overall number we are looking now?
This total will now compete with things like gaming PCs or Last gen consoles etc.
There are some cars cheaper than full GW armies and that is a much better gift than some freaking plastic toy miniatures.
Snipped bits out, but come on? 2nd hand cars are worth almost as much as new cars right now and new ones are like pixie dust and shooting up in price. Being a stickler for low model count cheaper armies as well: Rulebook, codex, basic knight army (not saying it's good) - 4 helverins, castellan, knight of choice and 2 warglaives is £313.15 from a retailer like darksphere. What cars are you buying?
There's a difference between "some cars are cheaper than full GW armies" and "some cars are cheaper than the cheapest army I can think about", you know.
That said... this one?
https://www.coches.net/chrysler-neon-20-16v-le-4p-gasolina-2001-en-madrid-51506978-covo.aspx
Which is funny because it's about as old as the cadian sprues.
I didn't invalidate the statement in any way, even if you double that £600 is not going to get you anything other than an old banger in the UK. Further to that when you add the caveat of "must be full price" and "average sized" whatever that means and it's not exactly quantifiable. I could buy a 2k army at full RRP for the same price as a mid-range gaming PC and far cheaper than any car worth it's salt, never mind using discounters or 2nd hand purchases. They're just daft comparisons.
It's like saying "gee bread sure has gone up in price, imagine how many loaves (from a local artisan bakery, freshly baked) I'd need for a space marine captain now!"
I think, Pc, consoles, car are on the list of anyone thinking on gifting their kids or simply young adults thinking on spending money in entertainment/hobbies ... But yep eat your artisan buns if that entertains you.
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Post by: kirotheavenger
I spent about £150 on my Star Wars Legion army.
That includes all the rules I need to play (including core and faction rules), all brand new in boxes, and gave me a force about 1.5x standard size so I have options with my lists.
I then spent about the same on a Tau army, this includes buying a couple of kits 2nd second and off friends.
That gives me maybe 1500pts if I really squeeze the points out, that's only about 75% of a "normal" 40k game let alone flexibility in what I take!
It also doesn't include any of the rules I need to play and I haven't bought anything that would be a low "price-value" ratio like characters.
I've also spent probably about the same again on Blood Red Skies - a 10mm WW2 dogfighting game.
Here I have medium sized squadrons of about a dozen different aircraft, including several aces (~characters). It's a collection so large for the scale of the game I can't imagine what else I might buy.
What this shows is that even if scraping every penny to get a 40k army on a similar budget I end up with significantly less value given the scope of the game.
Part of that is because the expectation of a 40k army is a lot larger than those other games, particularly Blood Red Skies, but that's still quite relevant.
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Post by: Nomeny
You don't necessarily have to play the game to collect and enjoy the models.
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Post by: Rolsheen
I think we can safely say this is no longer News or Rumours and this thread should be locked. Complaining about said price rises should be taken to the thread in 40k discussion.
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Post by: Dudeface
 kirotheavenger wrote:I spent about £150 on my Star Wars Legion army.
That includes all the rules I need to play (including core and faction rules), all brand new in boxes, and gave me a force about 1.5x standard size so I have options with my lists.
I then spent about the same on a Tau army, this includes buying a couple of kits 2nd second and off friends.
That gives me maybe 1500pts if I really squeeze the points out, that's only about 75% of a "normal" 40k game let alone flexibility in what I take!
It also doesn't include any of the rules I need to play and I haven't bought anything that would be a low "price-value" ratio like characters.
I've also spent probably about the same again on Blood Red Skies - a 10mm WW2 dogfighting game.
Here I have medium sized squadrons of about a dozen different aircraft, including several aces (~characters). It's a collection so large for the scale of the game I can't imagine what else I might buy.
What this shows is that even if scraping every penny to get a 40k army on a similar budget I end up with significantly less value given the scope of the game.
Part of that is because the expectation of a 40k army is a lot larger than those other games, particularly Blood Red Skies, but that's still quite relevant.
I think this is the real measure, how does it compare to its peers for value for money (which is always subjective) rather than an obscure set of parameters for comparing to other unrelated life purchases.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
Rolsheen wrote:I think we can safely say this is no longer News or Rumours and this thread should be locked. Complaining about said price rises should be taken to the thread in 40k discussion.
...or behind the sheds and shot, being a topic that's been done to death. Just a thought.
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Post by: NAVARRO
Nomeny wrote:You don't necessarily have to play the game to collect and enjoy the models.
I know and many many of us dont, but that comes after your first contact and also thats not the Pitch GW is selling you when you start.
What happens is that they want to sell you a game first and foremost because they know a painter getting a character mini and paints, brushes, glues etc to paint will buy a lot less product than a gamer who will buy many rulebooks, cards, dices, multiples of the same models and many more paint refills than the painter.
GW aims to sell you a contained experience and they clearly know their products are overpriced for their core target demographic ( New client getting started and needs pretty much all from scratch to build an army and play a game instore)... thats why they try to smoke the actual true Full price of a 2000pts army with (starter sets, or start collecting).
Im not even mentioning the full home experience which is 2 player game, with table terrain and actually 2 full armies and all relevant products to keep rules updated etc.
Its hard for veterans to actually detach from what they already have on their collections and also know where to get the cheap deals. For the new guys I cannot even imagine how much money will it take today to make it happen.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
It’s a topic that will always be relevant. Every new GW release will have some price-related issue (because they usually go up), so we’ll always have news regarding GW prices.
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Post by: NAVARRO
Rolsheen wrote:I think we can safely say this is no longer News or Rumours and this thread should be locked. Complaining about said price rises should be taken to the thread in 40k discussion.
Fair enough but Is it not news that they actually raised the prices more than the percentage they initially mentioned?
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Post by: Arbitrator
NAVARRO wrote: Rolsheen wrote:I think we can safely say this is no longer News or Rumours and this thread should be locked. Complaining about said price rises should be taken to the thread in 40k discussion.
Fair enough but Is it not news that they actually raised the prices more than the percentage they initially mentioned?
Something something don't be entitled something something they're a business something something it's' a luxury hobby.
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Post by: chaos0xomega
Yknow it occurs to me that GW probably could have achieved the same effect without the massive spike in ill will if they had just cut points values by 10-20% across the board. Suddenly everyone needs to buy another 200-400 pts worth of models to make points. Make up for lost margin with increased volume of sales.
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Post by: Dysartes
Rolsheen wrote:I think we can safely say this is no longer News or Rumours and this thread should be locked. Complaining about said price rises should be taken to the thread in 40k discussion.
Why should it be a thread in 40k discussion? This was a change that affected every game currently in production, after all.
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Post by: GrosseSax
I picked up 4 SC boxes from a 3rd party just prior to the price increase and it will most likely be my last of purchase of GW product.
Given rapidly deteriorating economic conditions, I cannot in good conscious, justify these levels of expenditures on hobby time. While I am currently in a solid financial position, that could dramatically shift depending on national/global events and I would like to be prepared for that unpleasant possibility. A realignment of priorities if you will.
I am not trying to be all doom and gloom, but I have this sinking suspicion that there are no brakes on this train and things are going to get a lot worse before they get better. IMHO.
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Post by: NAVARRO
 GrosseSax wrote:I picked up 4 SC boxes from a 3rd party just prior to the price increase and it will most likely be my last of purchase of GW product.
Given rapidly deteriorating economic conditions, I cannot in good conscious, justify these levels of expenditures on hobby time. While I am currently in a solid financial position, that could dramatically shift depending on national/global events and I would like to be prepared for that unpleasant possibility. A realignment of priorities if you will.
I am not trying to be all doom and gloom, but I have this sinking suspicion that there are no brakes on this train and things are going to get a lot worse before they get better. IMHO.
Thats a good point actually, the global economical changes due to current conflicts will affect most of us, I wonder how GW will react to it...
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Post by: Daedalus81
GrosseSax wrote:I picked up 4 SC boxes from a 3rd party just prior to the price increase and it will most likely be my last of purchase of GW product.
Given rapidly deteriorating economic conditions, I cannot in good conscious, justify these levels of expenditures on hobby time. While I am currently in a solid financial position, that could dramatically shift depending on national/global events and I would like to be prepared for that unpleasant possibility. A realignment of priorities if you will.
I am not trying to be all doom and gloom, but I have this sinking suspicion that there are no brakes on this train and things are going to get a lot worse before they get better. IMHO.
You're not alone. Interesting times, indeed.
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Post by: chaos0xomega
Yep, feel the same. Already planned for a significant cutback in my personal hobby expenditures in light of recent events, but after seeing the new prices I consider GW pricing to be too high to justify further purchases.
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Post by: Luke82
“ Thats a good point actually, the global economical changes due to current conflicts will affect most of us, I wonder how GW will react to it...”
They will probably raise prices.
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Post by: Ragweek
Games workshop have actually done me a favour. I have such a massive pile of shame that is still new on sprue. Just checked ebay sold items, It's resale value has gone through the roof.
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Post by: Albertorius
Yeah, I should probably start to unload some stuff anyway... it's not like I can actually paint and use everything I already have.
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Post by: Wha-Mu-077
Luke82 wrote:“ Thats a good point actually, the global economical changes due to current conflicts will affect most of us, I wonder how GW will react to it...”
They will probably raise prices.
To be fair GW reacts to everything with raising prices.
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Post by: A Town Called Malus
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:Luke82 wrote:“ Thats a good point actually, the global economical changes due to current conflicts will affect most of us, I wonder how GW will react to it...”
They will probably raise prices.
To be fair GW reacts to everything with raising prices.
Price of materials goes up? Raise prices.
Switch to new packaging? Raise prices.
Switch to a cheaper material which also destroys the quality of the casts? Believe it or not, raise prices.
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Post by: Albertorius
Funny how that works, yeah
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Post by: Wha-Mu-077
A Town Called Malus wrote: Wha-Mu-077 wrote:Luke82 wrote:“ Thats a good point actually, the global economical changes due to current conflicts will affect most of us, I wonder how GW will react to it...”
They will probably raise prices.
To be fair GW reacts to everything with raising prices.
Price of materials goes up? Raise prices.
Switch to new packaging? Raise prices.
Switch to a cheaper material which also destroys the quality of the casts? Believe it or not, raise prices.
There was actually a single, historical moment of GW lowering prices - where they remade the Blood Knights in Plastic, now i recall.
82928
Post by: Albertorius
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: A Town Called Malus wrote: Wha-Mu-077 wrote:Luke82 wrote:“ Thats a good point actually, the global economical changes due to current conflicts will affect most of us, I wonder how GW will react to it...”
They will probably raise prices.
To be fair GW reacts to everything with raising prices.
Price of materials goes up? Raise prices.
Switch to new packaging? Raise prices.
Switch to a cheaper material which also destroys the quality of the casts? Believe it or not, raise prices.
There was actually a single, historical moment of GW lowering prices - where they remade the Blood Knights in Plastic, now i recall.
That's not wrong... but they are still 5 mounted minis for 55 euros, you know, so it has more to do with the fact that the old ones were incredibly overpriced and less to do with the new ones being fairly so.
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Post by: jullevi
There have been more than one occasion in the past where GW has reduced the price of exactly the same models.
Costs have gone up so GW needs to raise prices to retain their insane profit margins and keep the shareholders happy. I don't like it but I understand it.
I will probably spend the same amount as before but my pile of shame will grow slower.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Whoa, prices really are out of control now!
(I really wonder what's going on here, first off the vendor is a Christian book store, and then there's the thousand dollar price tag for a $27 kit. My first guess is money laundering, otherwise, I mean  )
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Post by: Cruentus
Accidentally added an extra zero to the list price? Trying to see if anyone bites?
It says "283 Sold", and it is the "Last One"...
My dollars are now going to other companies, buying the odd model just to paint, etc. I've been priced out for some time.
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Post by: Undead_Love-Machine
It's not money laundering, the seller is just trying to keep the listing live until more stock arrives.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
I've only used ebay for random stuff so what is that advantage of keeping the listing alive rather than relisting later? Is it a fee thing?
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Post by: Ghaz
That's nothing unusual on Amazon. If someone's desperate for a pot of Ceramite White there's a retailer who has 12 pots, going for just $44.98 each 
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Post by: Azreal13
Is it already lumpy, or do you have to do that yourself?
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Post by: Toofast
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I've only used ebay for random stuff so what is that advantage of keeping the listing alive rather than relisting later? Is it a fee thing?
Ebay will send you an email giving you x amount of free listings. Stores will post listings they don't have stock of and set the price really high, then edit it later when they get stock back in.
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Post by: Wha-Mu-077
$44.98 would be far too little for the world's only pot of non-lumpy Corax White.
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Post by: Togusa
 GrosseSax wrote:I picked up 4 SC boxes from a 3rd party just prior to the price increase and it will most likely be my last of purchase of GW product.
Given rapidly deteriorating economic conditions, I cannot in good conscious, justify these levels of expenditures on hobby time. While I am currently in a solid financial position, that could dramatically shift depending on national/global events and I would like to be prepared for that unpleasant possibility. A realignment of priorities if you will.
I am not trying to be all doom and gloom, but I have this sinking suspicion that there are no brakes on this train and things are going to get a lot worse before they get better. IMHO.
Eat. Drink. Be merry, for tomorrow we all may die.
The price increase hasn't affected my buying. Actually, after two years of hobby buying I've basically got everything I want. Now I can spend time working on projects. Things like HH, Leagues of Votann, New AoS factions or Terrain, Epic would change all of that.
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Post by: chaos0xomega
Toofast wrote: Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I've only used ebay for random stuff so what is that advantage of keeping the listing alive rather than relisting later? Is it a fee thing?
Ebay will send you an email giving you x amount of free listings. Stores will post listings they don't have stock of and set the price really high, then edit it later when they get stock back in.
Basically this, eBay charges fees per listing unless you get a promo offer for a certain number of free listings a month, usually when you see this its because the listing was made using the free listing promo and the seller is trying to keep the listing alive by preventing the item from being sold with an absurd price. Once they get more stock in they drop the price, etc. and make it normal again, or depending on what the products in question are they sometimes can modify the listing to a slightly different product instead.
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