https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/02/09/important-pricing-news/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=social&utm_content=pricingnews090222&fbclid=IwAR1uU_ysX4t-dpAr0IMsvl5zX-QSWDshMTQAd_4LKqW3U2RxlSMFjn_EyRQ

Bunch of stuff going up 5%. Bunch of stuff not going up at all. Doesn’t apply to following currencies.

Australia dollar
New Zealand dollar
Japan yen
China RMB

Scenery +10% lolwtff

*Braces for the rage of nerds and salt*

I have to say metal going up by 20% really highlights how GW needs to perhaps put "design led" aside and put "just get stuff updated to plastic darn it" as their mantra for a bit.


Honestly I'm not shocked, I've seen firms raising prices and shipping prices have gone insane, esp for international post of any kind.

Plus I'd wager that what's hitting GW right now is the doubling (and more) of electric prices which has got to hit their factory hard in terms of operating costs. Though that's one cost that's hoped to go down in the future, its very uncertain if or when that might possibly happen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JWBS wrote:
Scenery +10% lolwtff

Probably because its made overseas and has to be double shipped - once to the GW factory and then the second time out to customers (or out to the global market).

Is their legal duty to keep shareholder's profits on the rise.

Nothing to see here.

Explains the £170 price tag that should have been £150 on the new Necromunda terrain bundle.

 Overread wrote:
I have to say metal going up by 20% really highlights how GW needs to perhaps put "design led" aside and put "just get stuff updated to plastic darn it" as their mantra for a bit.

If it wasn't likely a systematic problem that runs rampant at every level at GW HQ, yes, a product manager that puts a foot down and makes the designers do their fething job would be a good idea.

JWBS wrote:
Explains the £170 price tag that should have been £150 on the new Necromunda terrain bundle.

It certainly makes the discount seem better, if for all the wrong reasons.

That makes it 1 year in the past 4 that hasn't had a price hike. For those who haven't been counting, 2019 had a huge pricehike across the board, 2020 had another one that ranged from tiny (Cadians went up 1$, but had gone up 6$ the previous year...) to large (Ogres went from 40$ to 48$). I suppose at least this time around we know what the increases are, and that it is across the board flat.

Funny talking about costs, inflation, etc, when wasn't there just a thread showing how GW was raking in cash hand over fist and could easily absorb any increased costs while barely batting an eye.

 kurhanik wrote:
That makes it 1 year in the past 4 that hasn't had a price hike. For those who haven't been counting, 2019 had a huge pricehike across the board, 2020 had another one that ranged from tiny (Cadians went up 1$, but had gone up 6$ the previous year...) to large (Ogres went from 40$ to 48$). I suppose at least this time around we know what the increases are, and that it is across the board flat.

Funny talking about costs, inflation, etc, when wasn't there just a thread showing how GW was raking in cash hand over fist and could easily absorb any increased costs while barely batting an eye.

Yep.

I remember back in 2018 when they said: We are gonna put newer kits at higher prices to avoid doing general price increases.

Now we have both, higher newer kits and all the old stuff or even not that old stuff going up in price.

 Galas wrote:

 kurhanik wrote:
That makes it 1 year in the past 4 that hasn't had a price hike. For those who haven't been counting, 2019 had a huge pricehike across the board, 2020 had another one that ranged from tiny (Cadians went up 1$, but had gone up 6$ the previous year...) to large (Ogres went from 40$ to 48$). I suppose at least this time around we know what the increases are, and that it is across the board flat.

Funny talking about costs, inflation, etc, when wasn't there just a thread showing how GW was raking in cash hand over fist and could easily absorb any increased costs while barely batting an eye.

Yep.

I remember back in 2018 when they said: We are gonna put newer kits at higher prices to avoid doing general price increases.

Now we have both, higher newer kits and all the old stuff or even not that old stuff going up in price.

Shareholders can't live on good will alone. Think of the poor shareholders.

It’s…it’s almost as if there are economic forces well beyond their control.

Global inflation is running at 5.9% so it’s not surprising that they want to up prices on existing kits by at least 5% and as mentioned stuff made in China costs even more due to shipping and raw material costs. I wonder how new or old the kits getting price rises will be as they have been building price rises into new releases for awhile now.

At least the already over costed (on exchange rates) Australian and New Zealand prices aren’t going up.

It sucks. The system sucks and I'd like to enjoy a hobby where I can pretend the things around don't suck quite as much.

It's just as well I'm a slow painter really, means I don't go buying much.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s…it’s almost as if there are economic forces well beyond their control.

I'm too european lefty to eat those spaguetti.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/02/09/important-pricing-news/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=social&utm_content=pricingnews090222&fbclid=IwAR1uU_ysX4t-dpAr0IMsvl5zX-QSWDshMTQAd_4LKqW3U2RxlSMFjn_EyRQ

Bunch of stuff going up 5%. Bunch of stuff not going up at all. Doesn’t apply to following currencies.

Australia dollar
New Zealand dollar
Japan yen
China RMB

What a surprise.

Not.

 DaveC wrote:


At least the already over costed (on exchange rates) Australian and New Zealand prices aren’t going up.

That is nice, but doesn't factor in that almost *every* one of their exchange rates are over costed.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s…it’s almost as if there are economic forces well beyond their control.

Yeah, because their margins are so tiny.

I must imagine there's no chance that Combat Patrols (& AoS equivalent) and boxed games will escape the 5% hike.

Of course production costs doubling from 2 cents a sprue to 4 cents a sprue warrants a 5€ price hike.

Nooo! Think of the shareholderinoes! Without this price hike, their profit margins could've fallen from 500% to 499% (instead of rising)! Oh the inhumanity!

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Of course production costs doubling from 2 cents a sprue to 4 cents a sprue warrants a 5€ price hike.

It's as if cost of box included more than just plastic. Weird thought.

If I can see one positive out of this, it is the announcement itself.

Didn't we want them to be more upfront about stuff like this? I can't recall them ever giving us a heads-up announcement about price-increases.

 Segersgia wrote:
If I can see one positive out of this, it is the announcement itself.

Didn't we want them to be more upfront about stuff like this? I can't recall them ever giving us a heads-up announcement about price-increases.

And, just in case anyone thinks they're being in any way generous with this annoucement, they did say:

We’re writing now because we wanted to give you as much notice as we can so þat you can take advantage of þe current prices.

Which, in other words, means shut up and buy.

 Segersgia wrote:
If I can see one positive out of this, it is the announcement itself.

Didn't we want them to be more upfront about stuff like this? I can't recall them ever giving us a heads-up announcement about price-increases.

They have almost always given a heads up. Something like this, about half a month in advance, most of the time. Back when I was a redshirt the heads-up was a bit longer.


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tneva82 wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Of course production costs doubling from 2 cents a sprue to 4 cents a sprue warrants a 5€ price hike.

It's as if cost of box included more than just plastic. Weird thought.

Yes. Because production costs are so big a part on the end price.

EDIT: Wow, 20% extra on the Blood Bowl Teams and "some other stuff" (IIRC those have already gone up a couple times, right?). Guessing probably Necromunda gangs too.

Really living in those sunlit uplands now...

Meh, that's life. More concerned about energy bills doubling than a couple of quid on kits.

Books are going up 10% too, it looks like.

Blah, is what I say.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Meh, that's life. More concerned about energy bills doubling than a couple of quid on kits.

Difference is that a) everything we're talking here is non-subsistence stuff, so mixing things up is not really for the best, b) energy bills doubling make these changes more unbearable, not less and c)... the energy bill will eventually go down. GW prices, not so much.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Meh, that's life. More concerned about energy bills doubling than a couple of quid on kits.

Difference is that a) everything we're talking here is non-subsistence stuff, so mixing things up is not really for the best, b) energy bills doubling make these changes more unbearable, not less and c)... the energy bill will eventually go down. GW prices, not so much.

This!

I'm sure one the issues with power prices and the shipping and supply issues are resolved GW will naturally bring the prices back down to pre-pandemic levels. Right?

And, cmon guys, they have a Facebook page now. #NuGW!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s…it’s almost as if there are economic forces well beyond their control.

Haven't GW been doing really well in the pandemic era?

 krijthebold wrote:
Books are going up 10% too, it looks like.

Like we needed another reason not to buy printed 40k material.

Costs are still escalating. U.K. power costs alone are up 54%.

Yaaaaaay Brexit.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Haven't GW been doing really well in the pandemic era?

They're probably thinking to the end of the pandemic, when all of the new players stop buying.

Needs a GW prefix in the title, other games are available!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Costs are still escalating. U.K. power costs alone are up 54%.

So are here in Slovenia and we're practically self sufficient, so it's an undeniable fact that at least in our case it's pure corporate greed, just hiking prices because everyone else is.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm sure one the issues with power prices and the shipping and supply issues are resolved GW will naturally bring the prices back down to pre-pandemic levels. Right?

This isn't just pandemic related. It is difficult to see how that might happen. Inflation will level off eventually, but ultimately global supply chain logistics hit a wall five years early due to Covid, but the wall was still there.

(And Brexit and the potential for war in the Ukraine are cause a lot of economic long term economic pressures. Energy prices in the UK are never returning to their previous levels, the UK has simply underinvested for forty years and is going to suffer the consequences of that).

It is stupid hoping a business will accept a reduction in margin to avoid inflationary pressures. That's literally not what a company is supposed to do. You want to overthrow global capitalism then knock yourself right out, but there's not much point complaining about one specific company taking a pretty normal action until you succeed at it.

 The Phazer wrote:
It is stupid hoping a business will accept a reduction in margin to avoid inflationary pressures. That's literally not what a company is supposed to do. You want to overthrow global capitalism then knock yourself right out, but there's not much point complaining about one specific company taking a pretty normal action until you succeed at it.

Sure, they won't do it willingly. They'll do it if sales go down. Same as restaurants won't hire at certain hourly wages... unless they can't fill positions. Then they will.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Costs are still escalating. U.K. power costs alone are up 54%.

So are here in Slovenia and we're practically self sufficient, so it's an undeniable fact that at least in our case it's pure corporate greed, just hiking prices because everyone else is.

Self sufficiency is irrelevant economically if you can export the energy more profitably it will still drive price increases.

Heck, Kazakhstan is self sufficient and it's government basically imploded for the same reason.

I feel like one of the driving forces behind the metal increase is because stand alone metal models typically are cheaper than new plastic ones. So they want to make more money.

Not unexpected, but sad to see regardless.

Shame about scenery going up 10%, as this is already pretty damn expensive. Maybe this year I will finally get around to getting that 3D printer.

People are talking about GW prices like they have a god given right to be able to afford plastic models which are, at the end of the day, strictly a 1st world luxury item.

GW and other companies will charge what they can get away with. If you can't afford it or think its too much, dont buy it. If sales drop off, a company will need to reassess their approach.

 Skinnereal wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Haven't GW been doing really well in the pandemic era?

They're probably thinking to the end of the pandemic, when all of the new players stop buying.

I haven't closely followed the last financial report, so I may be off here, but it seems to me that they had to announce increased operating costs that affected their profits after the continuous increases over the last years and a healthy price rise is their way of reassuring shareholders. I could see it being a quick fix with no regard for the long term like the end of the pandemic, shipping issues or their actual ability to keep operating at lower profit. GW has reached its peak during the pandemic and done really well for itself, and now they're trying to ride the wave for as long as they can.

Also I believe February or thereabouts has been the time for GW's price increases lately, so in part it's no more than business as usual.

 Pacific wrote:
Needs a GW prefix in the title, other games are available!

Are you sure? If you see "price increase" as a thread title on a wargaming forum and your first thought isn't GW, you're doing toy soldiers wrong.

I'm relieved to see Japan's prices aren't going up. Inflation here was actually negative last year, and has been around 0.5% since 1995. That means that every time gw prices increase the impact is greater here.
This has led Japan to be the most expensive place in the world to buy gw minis. The price increases elsewhere just narrows the gap.

Right, this does not affect me or my stipulated budget which is still the same.

Basically if I want a model and if it fits within my budget fine, if it doesn't I will not buy it. Pretty simple maths and will not increase my budget regardless of GW announcements.

Its at the end of the day their loss not mine.

This Christmas was getting difficult to find cheap pick up things for the sake of it bellow the £20ish mark and next year probably 25ish and so on and on. Buy less or not buy at all seems the most positive thing coming from this because I really dont need more plastic TBH.

The vultures are circling!

So when all the distribution returns to normal and the price of goods fall, the prices will come down right GW........right????

It's no real loss, I've already cut down on buying their stuff this year. Too much existing to pain anyway.

Resin prices going up another 10%? Not thrilled.

Just saying, these perpetual prices hikes is making it nearly impossible to justify any "impulse buys" going forward. You might think you are increasing your profits, but you are forcing people to buy less. Unless GW is thinking of establishing a sort of installment payment option for their plasticrack, this will end up making them less money, not more..

Sunno wrote:
People are talking about GW prices like they have a god given right to be able to afford plastic models which are, at the end of the day, strictly a 1st world luxury item.

GW and other companies will charge what they can get away with. If you can't afford it or think its too much, dont buy it. If sales drop off, a company will need to reassess their approach.

So what. Can't I as a customer complaint about their policies or what?

Removed - rule #1 please

See, this just proves to me that they're shooting for saturation.
Notice how Australia is excluded. Now, from my understanding in Australia 40k growth has flatlined, (unsure about the other games) they've reached the point where the customer will not pay any more without losing customers.

Similar story with china and Japan, but that's moreso because warhammer (all sorts) has always struggled there, as opposed to reaching saturation. Can't afford to begin price hikes yet.

But britain? Europe? US/canada? They've not reached it yet so they're going to keep going. Keep going until we put our foot down.

 Galas wrote:

Sunno wrote:
People are talking about GW prices like they have a god given right to be able to afford plastic models which are, at the end of the day, strictly a 1st world luxury item.

GW and other companies will charge what they can get away with. If you can't afford it or think its too much, dont buy it. If sales drop off, a company will need to reassess their approach.

So what. Can't I as a customer complaint about their policies or what?

I think you can complain, the message was simply it'll happen regardless and until they hit the point the prices aren't sustainable, it'll continue. Even if you're not happy about it and complain.

 Galas wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s…it’s almost as if there are economic forces well beyond their control.

I'm too european lefty to eat those spaguetti.

As a share holder myself, i'd rather they just keep the prices down than inflate profits with higher consumer costs though there are market forces at play.

blah evil munny grabbers, servants of the dank powers,...wait not Paint ? As you were

Some selected price rises

AoS Extremis £105 -> £110
40K Command edition £105 -> £110
Warcry Red Harvest £130 -> £135
AoS Fury of The Deep £105 -> £115
40K Eldritch Omens £125 -> £130
Necromunda Hive War £90 -> £100
Bloodbowl 2nd Season £85 -> £95
Dungeonbowl £95 -> £105
Codexes £17.50 -> £19
Codexes/Battletomes £25 -> £27.50
Codexes/Battletomes £30 -> £32.50
Other books £20 -> £22
Other books £15 -> £17
Other books £28 -> £30
Other books £35 -> £37.50
Books £40 -> £42.50
Underworlds warbands £25 -> £26
AoS/40K Start Collecting £55 -> £57.50
AoS/40K Start Collecting £60 -> £65
Combat Patrol £85 -> £90
Necromunda gang £26 -> £28
Warcry Warbands £30 -> £32.50
Zone Mortalis kits go up £5 each
Underhive sector £170 -> £190
Bloodbowl team £26 -> £31.50
Characters £18.50 -> £19
Characters £20 -> £21
Characters £22.50 - > £24
Characters £25 -> £26
Dice sets £20 -> £24

Some of the unreleased Warcry sets from this weekend go up £1 already!

Ignore me, I self-owned.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
blah evil munny grabbers, servants of the dank powers,...wait not Paint ? As you were

Cuando las barbas de tu vecino veas cortar, pon las tuyas a remojar

An english equivalent could be to see the writing on the wall.

60 USD for duplicate sprue blood bowl team? No thanks

The more interesting bit than the obvious requirement to increase prices in these times of large inflationary pressure, is the freezing of some international prices.

Tacit acknowledgment that their historic exchange rates were harming them there and they have allowed them to lower.

This was always the only way those regions would get sort of "price decreases".

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Costs are still escalating. U.K. power costs alone are up 54%.

Yaaaaaay Brexit.

This is a very high IQ take, given that the 54% figure given is a prediction of EU wide energy cost increases.

This reinforces the current, “3d printer goes Brrrrrr” sentiment for terrain. Plenty of well designed free stuff and then there’s very polished projects like Stellar Artisans.

The Ender 3 v2 is a $300 outlay and you’ll probably spend two weeks tinkering with settings and Cura for tree supports. Then it’s $22/kg of plastic divided by the weight of the piece you’re printing (usually for a big H ruin it’s ~600g, so ~$13.20). This in comparison to between $50 and $90 for various sized terrain pieces from GW that have the same (or less) ornamentation as the Stellar Artisans work ($80 to purchase 8 stl sets post kickstarter).

The minute someone makes resin printing foolproof and reasonably cheap (self leveling bed, easy to replace components, simple means to piping fumes out a window vent) this’ll go sideways.

To be honest, I am surprised that GW have waited this long to increase their prices, would have thought that they'd have jumped at the first opportunity to raise their (already inflated prices).

Zone Mortalis kits go up £5 each
Underhive sector £170 -> £190

I have no words, the Sector barely has 4 kits worth of stuff in it, so content goes up by 20, price goes up by 20, relative savings go down from an already modest 15ish %

While I personally hate every price increase that happens and already am rather inclined to say that I will not buy any additional models, I am going to point out the sad horrible truth to everyone now:


GW miniatures/publications are probably still undervalued by about 25-50%.


The reason is simple: Even if they would raise their prices today by 25%. Nothing really would change. Yes the boards would be filled with a shitstorm. People would yell and scream and whatnot. But they would still buy the miniatures. Most people simply spend a budget on their hobby. It doesn't matter what they get for that budget, they will still spend it. Some might change their hobby, but would more than 25% leave? Doubtedly. If I go through my own thought process how I really justify such a luxury purchase, then it comes down to:

time that I spend enjoying the activity times the rarity I have the chance to do this in my life devided by [moneys times time I spend with unpleasent activity because of it]

Face it, GW has a monopoly, that is rarity. The time in the hobby is: thinking and talking about my faction/models + assembling + painiting + playing games (probably the shortest amount by comparison). Unpleasent time is minimal as long as I have space and opportunity to store and work on my models.

It would take an absurd amount of money to bring this equation down to the factors I face with things like going to the cinema or eating in a restaurant with people.

That is the reason why so many people have multiple 5000+ points armies. Once you are in, this equation keeps pulling you in. And if the prices rise, then people would rather look at playing smaller games or change to killteam. The only real threshold that GW thinks about is new customer conversion. That is were such high prices would potentionally hurt them on the long run.

I know this, because I do this for a job. We catch a customer with big discounts or exclusivity and then we raise prices until we reach the point that more people drop out of our product than we can compensate with the additional margin that the ones that don't drop out generate. We are actually forced to do that, anything other would be liable against our shareholders.

The only reason I don't buy additional models is that my display is full and my pile of shame attrociously large. If I were done, the prices certainly wouldn't stop me at the moment. And I still catch myself thinking about buying a Knight, because it would look cool. Sad horrible truth.

 GiToRaZor wrote:

GW miniatures/publications are probably still undervalued by about 25-50%.

You're not talking about "value" there. You're talking about "what they could get away with".

And that will very much vary from customer to customer. The important metric there would be whether the people that keeps buying compensates for the people who stops doing so.

K 3D printer setup it is, because unafordable prices are unafordable prices, for me atleast.

 Albertorius wrote:

 GiToRaZor wrote:

GW miniatures/publications are probably still undervalued by about 25-50%.

You're not talking about "value" there. You're talking about "what they could get away with".

And that will very much vary from customer to customer. The important metric there would be whether the people that keeps buying compensates for the people who stops doing so.

I'd wager a lot of people are willing to spend X amount every so often and will continue to do so, but X won't get them as much now.

I find the increase frustrating as it's too much for simply ignore it, but not so much it's a "wow I'm never getting that". They've run the perfect line for me sadly. 20% more at FW will kill that dead for me though.


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Not Online!!! wrote:
K 3D printer setup it is, because unafordable prices are unafordable prices, for me atleast.

Is that 3d printer going to be less than what the 5% extra will amount to on your expenditure for say a year?

Yes, I know it'll be cheaper overall, just curious whether the 5% extra is enough to break the camels back and if so is it such a big amount that your savings will be that heavy.

Dudeface wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:
K 3D printer setup it is, because unafordable prices are unafordable prices, for me atleast.

Is that 3d printer going to be less than what the 5% extra will amount to on your expenditure for say a year?

Yes, I know it'll be cheaper overall, just curious whether the 5% extra is enough to break the camels back and if so is it such a big amount that your savings will be that heavy.

Well, it depends realistically and sure i was a tad hyperbolic, but i spend on average a year maybee 500-750 CHF on the hobby. (and am prone to convert and search for alternatives/ avoid blatant cashgrab units like certain elite units and buy mostly via boxes like SC or combat patrolls)
I allready could've bought with that ammount of money a printing set up, asuming i proceed with my "theme" army approach which is about 1-2 years per army a prnter has amortised itself with resin costs in 1.5 years.

Yep. handkerchief maths for me already, because CHF currency exchange rates are magic exchange rates except with a hard currency, make it more profitable to get a 3d printer setup, including wash machine.

(an ok 3d printer is about 350-400 CHF, washstation about 150-300 and resin about 50 / L.)
F.e. the new box price without discount from the FLG's is 179 CHF, which is 143 £ or 193 and change $
eldritch omens in pound is 125

And that is a favourable exchange rate, some stuff like the new Abadon is far more overpriced, so we basically play and pay for price roulette over here.

And a printer prints more than just models.

 Skinnereal wrote:
And a printer prints more than just models.

Sounds like money laundering to me...

 Skinnereal wrote:
And a printer prints more than just models.

That is just bonus to me, with a liter resin i on average can print more models than my forces tend to need, unless i seriously build that one ridicoulus planned out in 7th Horde R&H list which is basically 300 milita men that ammounted to 1050 pts.
Literally any other list i built / build will never come close to depleting that amount of resin.

This is all very interesting if you detach yourself emotionally from it.

I am incredibly curious what the threshold is for prices becoming too high. As others have suggested, they've already hit that point in Australia.

I pretty much exclusively buy things second hand now and recently purchased a 3D printer, so I'm not sure how much this stuff impacts me. But I'm very curious to see how much GW can squeeze people for.

Not Online!!! wrote:
K 3D printer setup it is, because unafordable prices are unafordable prices, for me atleast.

Guess what else has gone up in price over the last year and is set to continue rising (and is often out of stock for ages)

 Overread wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
K 3D printer setup it is, because unafordable prices are unafordable prices, for me atleast.

Guess what else has gone up in price over the last year and is set to continue rising (and is often out of stock for ages)

locally seemingly not.Alas i don't live in brexit land.

Looking for printer recommendations.

Thanks.

 GrosseSax wrote:
Looking for printer recommendations.

Thanks.

For minis, literally anything with a monochrome screen is fine, like a Mars 2, Photon Mono, Creality Halot One, Phrozen Sonic Mini 4k, or any higher grade machine of the same brands.

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
This is all very interesting if you detach yourself emotionally from it.

I am incredibly curious what the threshold is for prices becoming too high. As others have suggested, they've already hit that point in Australia.

I pretty much exclusively buy things second hand now and recently purchased a 3D printer, so I'm not sure how much this stuff impacts me. But I'm very curious to see how much GW can squeeze people for.

Detach is the word. Like I detached myself from all rulesets and Limited box sets GW puts up these days and the more you detach the more you find that you and GW are walking in totally different directions, instead of alongside.

This happened years ago when saturation levels where high and then New GW came up with start collecting, free rules and data sheets for AoS etc etc.
The big difference now is the ridiculous pace of releases and new codex, rules, gang books etc. Gaming shenanigans after a couple years with no gaming because of covid does not motivate anyone.

It is increasingly risky ground for them. Either keep the dividend high or reduce - but a lot of that has been sales growth. In the UK we are about to start being clobbered with our steadily eroding purchasing power due to Brexit, the same problems everyone else is having, the legacy of underinvestment in stuff like energy and inflation on often stagnant wages. Yes there are more savings than normal, but while that could be seen as money there for the taking, if 3d prints get more visibility that could be money that gets diverted to that, and once you print you won't go back to the same level of purchasing.

If I had shares I would be watching like a hawk and seeing what customer behaviour starts to do.


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 NAVARRO wrote:

The big difference now is the ridiculous pace of releases and new codex, rules, gang books etc. Gaming shenanigans after a couple years with no gaming because of covid does not motivate anyone.

I suspect a lot of us have built up big backlogs, I wonder how that will impact stuff?

I am basically thinking of dumping most of my 40k and focusing GW wise on my SG stuff.

I always figured the average GW fan was a 20-40 something single, middle-class guy working in IT with decent financial stability and not those who'd otherwise be pushed out by energy/food/bill rises.

What teens are entering the hobby probably have wealthy enough parents happy to keep paying for it if they didn't do a 180 as soon as seeing how much a box of toy soldiers costs.

The amount of people being priced out is likely minimal and the majority will either begrudgingly or be fine with eating the increase to cover numbers priced out.

60 Victrix historical dudes are £22, just saying.

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
This is all very interesting if you detach yourself emotionally from it.

I am incredibly curious what the threshold is for prices becoming too high. As others have suggested, they've already hit that point in Australia.

I pretty much exclusively buy things second hand now and recently purchased a 3D printer, so I'm not sure how much this stuff impacts me. But I'm very curious to see how much GW can squeeze people for.

I have three 3d printers at home now, two resin and an fdm. I haven't really bought anything GW since... hm. Last I bought was a plastic Thunderhawk, and before that, the special edition box of 40k. Nothing else, and the THawk was really something of a whim. I'm using it to compare sizes with my resin ones xD.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Arbitrator wrote:
I always figured the average GW fan was a 20-40 something single, middle-class guy working in IT with decent financial stability and not those who'd otherwise be pushed out by energy/food/bill rises.

What teens are entering the hobby probably have wealthy enough parents happy to keep paying for it if they didn't do a 180 as soon as seeing how much a box of toy soldiers costs.

The amount of people being priced out is likely minimal and the majority will either begrudgingly or be fine with eating the increase to cover numbers priced out.

It's not really an issue of "being priced out". I work two jobs, I could easily pay whatever GW is asking.

But I won't. Because the amount they ask doesn't fit the value I perceive for it. And every time they raise prices, or choose an outrageous price point for something, there's even less stuff from GW that seems to be of value.

Meanwhile, I'm printing and painting a whole lot of stuff for a whole lot of different things. Like all of this for a tactical/rpg campaign I'm prepping:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s…it’s almost as if there are economic forces well beyond their control.

Sure but the thing is they've already raised their prices at well over the rate of inflation for 3 of the last 4 years. They were already "keeping up with inflation" probably 3-5 years ahead of time...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 krijthebold wrote:
Books are going up 10% too, it looks like.

Blah, is what I say.

Good thing they're only $50 to start with and you only need like 7 to play any one game sys...wait a minute

so because of high energy cost in Britain, books printed a year ago in China increase in price

yeah, everything totally related to the current situation

so I guess because of Brexit, High Energy Cost, Raw Material Shortage etc. we will see a quarterly price adjustment in addition to the standard yearly inflation adjustment while new boxes must be more expensive than the previous one to keep the status of a premium model company

 kodos wrote:
so because of high energy cost in Britain, books printed a year ago in China increase in price

yeah, everything totally related to the current situation

so I guess because of Brexit, High Energy Cost, Raw Material Shortage etc. we will see a quarterly price adjustment in addition to the standard yearly inflation adjustment while new boxes must be more expensive than the previous one to keep the status of a premium model company

I don't really see what your point is? Their current operating costs are up, the tax year is coming to an end/ come to an end for GW, they're now making amendments to cover their increased overheads now. It doesn't matter what the books cost to print a year ago, it matters what it costs to distribute them now.

I can’t imagine buying GW print media even if they dropped the price by 25%. They released the custodes codex and then invalidated points in it, what, a week later?

the point is simple, this price increase has nothing to do with anything of the current situation but is the normal increase we get just with a better excuse

if it would have anything to do with the distribution or changed cost, it would be for all costumers the same
and would not affect items already in stock at the local shops but just the new ones coming in

so this is the normal yearly GW price increase and maybe the adjustment for the changed cost comes in addition later this year

A pound more for intercessors? Yeah, don't care that much.

10% flat increase on the already way-overpriced books and scenery? Extremely crappy, especially the way they're pushing the former like they're a 'boutique' bookstore rather than a miniatures company.

Well, I've already got my Blood Bowl teams so I won't be getting hit by that upcoming 20% markup.

I stopped buying GW* years ago, and feel great. There are plenty of miniature ranges and game systems out there that provide just as much enjoyment or more for a fraction of the cost. I’m only surprised so many people still stick with GW with all of its negatives.


*I still get GW stuff in trades or at bring-and-buy events, where prices are not the issue.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
60 Victrix historical dudes are £22, just saying.

Yeah. 3D printing is one option, but for me the explosion of affordable plastics is the best thing to happen to this hobby. I hope WGA releases their plastic Valkir (not-Space Marines) while these price hikes are still fresh in the gaming consciousness, because I want to see what happens when a company offers a good quality, plastic alternative at about half the cost per marine.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I stopped buying GW* years ago, and feel great. There are plenty of miniature ranges and game systems out there that provide just as much enjoyment or more for a fraction of the cost. I’m only surprised so many people still stick with GW with all of its negatives.


*I still get GW stuff in trades or at bring-and-buy events, where prices are not the issue.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
60 Victrix historical dudes are £22, just saying.

Yeah. 3D printing is one option, but for me the explosion of affordable plastics is the best thing to happen to this hobby. I hope WGA releases their plastic Valkir (not-Space Marines) while these price hikes are still fresh in the gaming consciousness, because I want to see what happens when a company offers a good quality, plastic alternative at about half the cost per marine.

Im thinking how good would be a high quality plastics based on Starcraft and warcraft
60 dudes for £22 is bonkers!

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Yeah. 3D printing is one option, but for me the explosion of affordable plastics is the best thing to happen to this hobby. I hope WGA releases their plastic Valkir (not-Space Marines) while these price hikes are still fresh in the gaming consciousness, because I want to see what happens when a company offers a good quality, plastic alternative at about half the cost per marine.

I have to agree, my spending will be on cheaper product from else where not 3D printing.

I have a 3D printer, and it mainly gets used for scenery, I personally think that 3D printing still has a way to go before it can become as common as people seem to think it will,
print time, clean, cure, dealing with toxic chemicals/fumes, at the moment the downsides for me is just not worth it for army models. scenery however where its a one of piece now and then, its great for.

Toofast wrote:

 krijthebold wrote:
Books are going up 10% too, it looks like.

Blah, is what I say.

Good thing they're only $50 to start with and you only need like 7 to play any one game sys...wait a minute

I feel great about it! I do!

Dudeface wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 GiToRaZor wrote:

GW miniatures/publications are probably still undervalued by about 25-50%.

You're not talking about "value" there. You're talking about "what they could get away with".

And that will very much vary from customer to customer. The important metric there would be whether the people that keeps buying compensates for the people who stops doing so.

I'd wager a lot of people are willing to spend X amount every so often and will continue to do so, but X won't get them as much now.

I find the increase frustrating as it's too much for simply ignore it, but not so much it's a "wow I'm never getting that". They've run the perfect line for me sadly. 20% more at FW will kill that dead for me though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:
K 3D printer setup it is, because unafordable prices are unafordable prices, for me atleast.

Is that 3d printer going to be less than what the 5% extra will amount to on your expenditure for say a year?

Yes, I know it'll be cheaper overall, just curious whether the 5% extra is enough to break the camels back and if so is it such a big amount that your savings will be that heavy.

The bolded sentence is very true. Most people who buy luxury goods have a pretty straightforward budget for said luxuries. Increasing pricing for them is simply reducing overall purchases. (Or causes them to seek replacement goods.)

The only people whose spending increases are tournament players who require a specific combination of kits for specific reasons, and whales.

If you want scenery in any quantity, FDM 3D printer is an absolute no-brainer.

If you're patient and comfortable with a print taking 24 hours or so, 0.1mm layer height creates perfect detail on the print, rivaling a HIPS sprue kit for quality.

£170 or so will get you an Ender 3, and the cost of PLA has gone down now that supply problems have passed, around £10 a kg if bulk purchased.

I'm in the process of printing a full necromunda table for around £40, absolutely packed full of multilayer terrain and criss-crossing walkways. It's something you'd be looking at £500-£700 to recreate with the GW sets.

Printed miniatures are a while away from hitting mass adoption though, due to the toxicity and mess of resin, plus GW can more easily fire lawsuits in the direction of proxies. In that regard, they've got many more decades of their current business model to go.

Dont those 3d wonders have thousands of lines everywhere? I mean its all good people want to spend time and print to high quality but the services I watched that print things on demand either are freaking expensive or quality is dubious at best. Not interested in spending fortunes to clean ugly lines.

Terrain is easy to build if you really want some for cheap. Rare breed of scratchbuilters and terrain makers these days.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 GrosseSax wrote:
Looking for printer recommendations.

Thanks.

For minis, literally anything with a monochrome screen is fine, like a Mars 2, Photon Mono, Creality Halot One, Phrozen Sonic Mini 4k, or any higher grade machine of the same brands.

Indeed. They're really simple machines, all in all.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Dont those 3d wonders have thousands of lines everywhere? I mean its all good people want to spend time and print to high quality but the services I watched that print things on demand either are freaking expensive or quality is dubious at best. Not interested in spending fortunes to clean ugly lines.

Terrain is easy to build if you really want some for cheap. Rare breed of scratchbuilters and terrain makers these days.

Your modern 2K to 4K 3D resin printer prints with some layer lines visible but mostly only under camera or on a bad angle and they are easily cleaned up. 4K do really well on small build plates and the new 8K that are just coming out on small build plates are nearly totally invisible.


Suffice to say a LOT of the time you won't see the lines at all. You are likely thinking of FDM - the machines that print with a spool of material - which do tend to be a bit trickier to get smooth details out of; but you certainly can. However the liquid resin printers do a VERY Good job (heck GW uses them for masters - most of the painted models you see for box art are 3D printed)

 NAVARRO wrote:
Dont those 3d wonders have thousands of lines everywhere?

not the resin printers, and yes good quality is expensive because of the time needed, which is not a thing if you do it on your own
we are far off that printing on demand is affordable, but buying a printer and spend the time on your own saves the cost

I rather go with cheap plastic from other companies as I don't need that much printed terrain or GW like models

 NAVARRO wrote:
Dont those 3d wonders have thousands of lines everywhere? I mean its all good people want to spend time and print to high quality but the services I watched that print things on demand either are freaking expensive or quality is dubious at best. Not interested in spending fortunes to clean ugly lines.

Terrain is easy to build if you really want some for cheap. Rare breed of scratchbuilters and terrain makers these days.

Not really, no


(well, yes on the bases, but that's because I print them really fast and at 0.2 per layer ^^)

Hey, Boss. I’ve got the price increase draft lists ready.

Okay this looks great. Except pull the paint from getting a price rise. We may just be pushing our luck what with the competition coming out with very similar stuff at right around half the price.

If that stuff catches on big, it’ll be like customers 3D printing paint. We’ll keep prices the same until everyone has forgotten about the other guys stuff. Get someone working on renaming our colors we may need to relaunch, maybe with new bottles or something.

Also we’re already really soaking Australia, New Zealand, China and Japan. They get a pass this time. Make sure to make a big deal about their currencies not being affected. Heh, heh.

Throw in some stuff about material and energy costs going up recently and go ahead and post it.

 Albertorius wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Dont those 3d wonders have thousands of lines everywhere? I mean its all good people want to spend time and print to high quality but the services I watched that print things on demand either are freaking expensive or quality is dubious at best. Not interested in spending fortunes to clean ugly lines.

Terrain is easy to build if you really want some for cheap. Rare breed of scratchbuilters and terrain makers these days.

Not really, no

Spoiler:

(well, yes on the bases, but that's because I print them really fast and at 0.2 per layer ^^)

You answered half the question, I've found that hired print services can be pricey for any level of quality. Often printed units run similar prices to GW if they're well done.

Well, Geedubs have priced me out of the impulse buy. This will be good for me anyhow. Odds and ends from maybe two systems now? Neither of which will be 40k or AoS. It’ll save me money. Just can’t justify the prices any more, even as a collector and especially as a completionist.

How this affects me:

- Will order Sisters/Tau army books before the end of the month. This was planned anyways.
- Won't order Eldritch Omens. Was waffling b/c I want new Eldar and could do a small Chaos force, but now Chaos is straight out and all the new Eldar is going to be even more new-release expensive. Probably won't touch new Eldar unless a sweet Christmas box gets released.
- Won't order direct from GW unless absolutely 100% cannot get something I need somewhere else. I was mostly doing this but GW's free shipping sometimes made the difference on small orders.
- Was already planning on reduced purchases this year from GW anyways, though I did pick up some Christmas Battleforces as they were well suited to holes in my collections. Right now the only major temptation would be the new Horus Heresy box sets for beakies.
- Will work on non-GW projects more (Warlord, TTCombat) and the backlog of GW minis.
- Will probably work eBay/Kijiji/personal trading a bit more to save money.
- Won't buy a 3d printer b/c I like building models.

 John Prins wrote:
How this affects me:

- Will order Sisters/Tau army books before the end of the month. This was planned anyways.
- Won't order Eldritch Omens. Was waffling b/c I want new Eldar and could do a small Chaos force, but now Chaos is straight out and all the new Eldar is going to be even more new-release expensive. Probably won't touch new Eldar unless a sweet Christmas box gets released.
- Won't order direct from GW unless absolutely 100% cannot get something I need somewhere else. I was mostly doing this but GW's free shipping sometimes made the difference on small orders.
- Was already planning on reduced purchases this year from GW anyways, though I did pick up some Christmas Battleforces as they were well suited to holes in my collections. Right now the only major temptation would be the new Horus Heresy box sets for beakies.
- Will work on non-GW projects more (Warlord, TTCombat) and the backlog of GW minis.
- Will probably work eBay/Kijiji/personal trading a bit more to save money.
- Won't buy a 3d printer b/c I like building models.

To respond to your last point, digital kitbashing is pretty fun. I’ll download a few marine builders then use a program called mesh mixer that lets you mesh all the parts into whatever pose you want with it basically. Combine that with integrated rough sculpting tools and it’s basically what you can do basically with plastic stuff and a little more.

On the flipside I like printing GW style multipart minis and do traditional assembly, for example Anvil Industries. Way easier to support too.

Dudeface wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Dont those 3d wonders have thousands of lines everywhere? I mean its all good people want to spend time and print to high quality but the services I watched that print things on demand either are freaking expensive or quality is dubious at best. Not interested in spending fortunes to clean ugly lines.

Terrain is easy to build if you really want some for cheap. Rare breed of scratchbuilters and terrain makers these days.

Not really, no

Spoiler:

(well, yes on the bases, but that's because I print them really fast and at 0.2 per layer ^^)

You answered half the question, I've found that hired print services can be pricey for any level of quality. Often printed units run similar prices to GW if they're well done.

Well, the printer costs $200, and nowadays you get a liter of resin for like $30.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Dont those 3d wonders have thousands of lines everywhere? I mean its all good people want to spend time and print to high quality but the services I watched that print things on demand either are freaking expensive or quality is dubious at best. Not interested in spending fortunes to clean ugly lines.

Terrain is easy to build if you really want some for cheap. Rare breed of scratchbuilters and terrain makers these days.

I think some folks here missed that you were talking about terrain. Yeah, FDM printers will leave noticeable layer lines.

You can print terrain in resin and have no noticeable layer lines, but it's more expensive, slower, and much more constrained in volume. My $150 Photon S caps out at about the size of a Rhino for a single piece, and will take 8-24 hours to print it depending on layer height.

At this point I prefer to scratchbuild terrain or buy MDF. The minis themselves, as well as details to add to the terrain, are better suited to printing.

 John Prins wrote:
- Won't buy a 3d printer b/c I like building models.

You do know there's multipart resin printed models, right?

 NAVARRO wrote:
Dont those 3d wonders have thousands of lines everywhere? I mean its all good people want to spend time and print to high quality but the services I watched that print things on demand either are freaking expensive or quality is dubious at best. Not interested in spending fortunes to clean ugly lines.

Terrain is easy to build if you really want some for cheap. Rare breed of scratchbuilters and terrain makers these days.

Generally, the lines are not an issue. Here is an image of plastic minis with 3D printed heads I got from McDougall Designs. They look great to me.

I’ve got a fleet of BFG ships printed in FDM, and the lines are sometimes noticeable. The ships I have received printed in resin do not show lines like that. And they cost so, so much less than the old metal models.

As for terrain…I will never give up making terrain from dollar store Christmas ornaments and gothic orange juice lids. Or at least planning terrain while hoarding those items.

I mean, they already sell their stuff like 25% more than other retailers? So clearly they don't "need" to raise their prices as they are raking it in hand over fist.

I never buy anything direct from them, they are a rip off. I assume there are some parts of the world that don't have element games/alchemists workshop/wayland etc and are forced to buy from the hideously overpriced GW store, which sucks.

Dudeface wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Dont those 3d wonders have thousands of lines everywhere? I mean its all good people want to spend time and print to high quality but the services I watched that print things on demand either are freaking expensive or quality is dubious at best. Not interested in spending fortunes to clean ugly lines.

Terrain is easy to build if you really want some for cheap. Rare breed of scratchbuilters and terrain makers these days.

Not really, no

Spoiler:

(well, yes on the bases, but that's because I print them really fast and at 0.2 per layer ^^)

You answered half the question, I've found that hired print services can be pricey for any level of quality. Often printed units run similar prices to GW if they're well done.

Where are you buying from? This is not my experience.

Just going to make people even less likely to actually buy GW terrain and books. The value for money on the books in particular is spectacularly bad.

 Albertorius wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
- Won't buy a 3d printer b/c I like building models.

You do know there's multipart resin printed models, right?

Yes, I'm aware, and they seem like a wasted effort unless it's being done to save on resin for bigger models. I guess you reduce the amount of supports when you go that route too?

I've worked with plastic on sprue for 35+ years and I'm happy with it. I don't need another hobby, especially one where I get to wait 24+ hours for a print to finish and then find out I fethed up on scaling or the printer fethed up and I have to bin it and start over. I know people with 3d printers, they're having fun with them, but there's definitely a lot of trial and error going on there. I already have an airbrush to give me frustration.

That and finding space for another hobby appliance (or two) and the product of said appliance. At least boxes of sprue stack up nice and neat in the closet.

So cool hobby, but I don't want to deal with it.

 John Prins wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
- Won't buy a 3d printer b/c I like building models.

You do know there's multipart resin printed models, right?

Yes, I'm aware, and they seem like a wasted effort unless it's being done to save on resin for bigger models. I guess you reduce the amount of supports when you go that route too?

It's also pretty great for poseability, when the kits are just like they would be in plastics, and to help put the supports where the marks won't be visible after assembling.

But I've never had to wait 24+ hours for a print, you know, not even for scenery prints. The longest one I did in resin was a full Predator, which took about 7 hours. But to each their own.

Dudeface wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Dont those 3d wonders have thousands of lines everywhere? I mean its all good people want to spend time and print to high quality but the services I watched that print things on demand either are freaking expensive or quality is dubious at best. Not interested in spending fortunes to clean ugly lines.

Terrain is easy to build if you really want some for cheap. Rare breed of scratchbuilters and terrain makers these days.

Not really, no

Spoiler:

(well, yes on the bases, but that's because I print them really fast and at 0.2 per layer ^^)

You answered half the question, I've found that hired print services can be pricey for any level of quality. Often printed units run similar prices to GW if they're well done.

Depends on where you shop. One of the reasons I've resisted expanding to etsy is that I would have to raise my prices due to all of the extra fee's that storefront charges.

As reference, 20 infantry sized 28mm 3D printed figures runs $35 USD on my webstore. a box of comparable gw plastic (lets say AoS infantry) regularly runs at 10 models for anywhere between $38 to $70 retail.

Mad respect to anyone printing commericially. The labour is awful. I have my own machine and I'd gladly pay someone 5€ per plate just to wash and cure what I print for myself.

 Albertorius wrote:
But I've never had to wait 24+ hours for a print, you know, not even for scenery prints. The longest one I did in resin was a full Predator, which took about 7 hours. But to each their own.

The pedant in me requires I chime in.

My FDM printer churns out very cheap prints, and yes - very large prints can take a long time. I've had chunks of kaiju that take 3 days each. however, those are very large prints at the highest possible quality and it's an absolute edge case. If these guys are talking about a Predator size model in FDM at high quality, 24 hours is probably about right - they're not going to realize you specifically mean resin, I think.

FDM printers are perfect for terrain, and for some terrain, the layer lines actually enhance the model; I printed a Groot sideways that looked amazing. And like anything, you can dramatically reduce the layer lines with light sanding, using a high filler primer, and so on. But I'm not here to evangelize FDM printers - I don't think FDM is really appropriate for anything in warhams world other than terrain, or pretty crude proxies.

I have a Photon mono X, and my guys, that is where it is at. I can churn out a model the size of a Baneblade, have it look as good as injection modeled, it will take about 8 hours, and cost about $7 USD. The future is now, old man. The downsides are many and this is not really the right part of the forum for this, but I literally could not imagine buying models from Games Workshop anymore. $35 for 10 models? Insanity.

Although I guess it is cheaper than $45 for 10 Ork Boyz, lol.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Dont those 3d wonders have thousands of lines everywhere? I mean its all good people want to spend time and print to high quality but the services I watched that print things on demand either are freaking expensive or quality is dubious at best. Not interested in spending fortunes to clean ugly lines.

Terrain is easy to build if you really want some for cheap. Rare breed of scratchbuilters and terrain makers these days.

Not really, no

Spoiler:

(well, yes on the bases, but that's because I print them really fast and at 0.2 per layer ^^)

You answered half the question, I've found that hired print services can be pricey for any level of quality. Often printed units run similar prices to GW if they're well done.

Where are you buying from? This is not my experience.

Etsy, shapeways and the odd ebay seller (although the ebayers have been fairly reasonable overall)

This might also be a regional thing, 3d printers are a little pricier over here, gw is a little cheaper comparatively etc.

Seems like my suspicions are confirmed and this is just me looking at it from a consumer client perspective.

For terrain which is the bit that took the biggest price hike I think GW knows very well that:

Alternatives are not there yet.

-MDF does not offer same detail.
-Resin in big sizes is expensive and breaks
-3d market still not there for many of us consumers with no interest in spending time and money on a printer. The Etsys and printing services on demand for terrain are expensive with no guarantees you will have sharp prints and have a back log.

Dudeface wrote:

Etsy, shapeways and the odd ebay seller (although the ebayers have been fairly reasonable overall)

This might also be a regional thing, 3d printers are a little pricier over here, gw is a little cheaper comparatively etc.

Yea just forget about Shapeways. They use industrial grade machines and charge accordingly, except they're 10 years old and can't match a modern €200 home printer unless you get the triple deluxe stuff that costs more than gold.

Yah, Shapeways is big disappointing. I used them often many years ago and was thrilled with them then... but oh boy, did they quickly not become a valid solution. Ah, well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NAVARRO wrote:


-MDF does not offer same detail.

Correct.

 NAVARRO wrote:
-Resin in big sizes is expensive and breaks

In backwards order, yes - resin is brittle compared to plastic, absolutely correct.
Expensive - depends how you want to slice it. Resin printing absolutely has relatively expensive up front costs, but if compare printing Superheavies and Titans vs buying them from Forgeworld, it's rapidly going to become much, much cheaper.

 NAVARRO wrote:
-3d market still not there for many of us consumers with no interest in spending time and money on a printer. The Etsys and printing services on demand for terrain are expensive with no guarantees you will have sharp prints and have a back log.

Absolutely correct. It's expensive up front, you need to have access to a location where print safely, it's time consuming and requires learning a new skillset.

Ultimately, if you have those things, you can do cheaper prints, more variety, and infinite customization, but it is absolutely not for everyone yet. I still don't think it's a real competition for GWS for the average Jimmy Ultramarines in virtually any situation.

Companies really need to realize their shareholder reports are public documents.

You don't get to brag about record profits in one outlet and the plead poverty in another one.

 Ouze wrote:
Expensive - depends how you want to slice it. Resin printing absolutely has relatively expensive up front costs, but if compare printing Superheavies and Titans vs buying them from Forgeworld, it's rapidly going to become much, much cheaper.

which is a very important point in 3D printing, it is cheap compared to GW/FW and you get better quality than on FW models, compared to other parts of wargaming/tabletop not so much and it really depends on your needs

printing a 28mm niche napoleonic faction no one is doing or only metal models are available, sure, doing french or british, not so much

same for terrain, having the detailed buildings for 28mm Waterloo will be time consuming and expensive compared to MDF which is doing the job, printing the same for 10mm is a different story

Plastic Terrain is out there: Archon produces some great plastic terrain, as does Pegasus Hobbies, and then there’s Mantic, Perry/Renedra, Platformer (or whatever they are called now), with lots of PVC options from Bones, Wizkids, CMON (sometimes), and then you have the Medge terrain sprues that combine plastic terrain details with the savings of kitbashing shoeboxes and gutter joints.

I loooove Pegasus terrain. I have done some really cool kitbashing with their stuff and it's crazy cheap. I made this enormous cathedral and I think it probably cost less than 80 bucks in kits.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Companies really need to realize their shareholder reports are public documents.

You don't get to brag about record profits in one outlet and the plead poverty in another one.

They know that they will be defended, even applauded for pretty much any action they take.
They could have posted record profits in their price rise announcement and folks would be there to say how great it is.

More importantly their income won’t suffer even if a percentage of people stop or lessen buying.
The increased prices help offset any potential quitters.

Have any of the other various game companies announced similar price hikes?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Companies really need to realize their shareholder reports are public documents.

You don't get to brag about record profits in one outlet and the plead poverty in another one.

Objection!

 privateer4hire wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Companies really need to realize their shareholder reports are public documents.

You don't get to brag about record profits in one outlet and the plead poverty in another one.

They know that they will be defended, even applauded for pretty much any action they take.
They could have posted record profits in their price rise announcement and folks would be there to say how great it is.

My favorite defenders are the people on Facebook who can't do basic math and think they aren't affected because they buy from discounters.

This sucks. Underworlds has already seen continuous hikes since the beginning of 2020, with warbands going from CAD$35 to $50 - plus tax (which runs 12% where I live). The starters went from $70 to $125, and while the current starter is exempt from an increase (since it was already built in!) I'm sure the next starter won't be.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Have any of the other various game companies announced similar price hikes?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Companies really need to realize their shareholder reports are public documents.

You don't get to brag about record profits in one outlet and the plead poverty in another one.

Objection!

This response might be entirely out of context as I'm too lazy to load and read the previous page, but Victoria recently jacked up the prices of her 10 man squads to 59.99 USD from 49.99 USD which unfortunately put the kibosh on my Tanith IG army.

I'm simply not willing to pay these prices.

GW shouldn't be raising the prices on any kit that is one sprue duplicated. The whole point of the blood bowl teams being done that way was to reduce production and design costs and even any effort involved.

I think GW saw an opportunity here to gouge consumers at an opportunistic moment and just blame inflation.

 Thargrim wrote:
GW shouldn't be raising the prices on any kit that is one sprue duplicated. The whole point of the blood bowl teams being done that way was to reduce production and design costs and even any effort involved.

I think GW saw an opportunity here to gouge consumers at an opportunistic moment and just blame inflation.

Tell me you don’t understand pricing and that without telling me you don’t understand pricing and that?

The U.K. (where the majority of GW’s production is done) is in a ropey economic position right now. Inflation is up. Power prices are going through the roof.

And remember. Inflation is based on whatever The Office For National Statistics consider to be Household Staples. That of course does not include our plastic crack. Nor is any company by any means beholden to only raise prices in line with inflation.

The Consumer Price Index (by which inflation is judged) is not The Whole Of The Thing. I mean, let’s look at my Council Tax (a tax in the U.K. not linked to income, but to property values set around 1991). My Council Tax is waaaaaay above inflation. That directly affects my disposable income - yet doesn’t factor into the CPI, which again is the benchmark of inflation.

It’s….it’s almost as if economics are really bloody complicated. This isn’t an issue solely limited to GW. At all. It’s a much wider problem - especially when you’ve enough of a clue to know that, in the U.K. at least, salaries haven’t kept up with inflation in a long, long time.

But sure, if it makes you feel better, you just blame it on GW’s greed. Because I guess that’s a helluva lot easier and more self satisfying than trying to understand the bigger picture.

The bigger picture is still just greed, just on more levels.

Well, the good new is that we don't need GW to play Warhammer.

Cobblers. Utter cobblers.

Now. Please note I am not attempting to justify, approve etc the exact amount of the increase.

Rather, I’m attempting to illustrate that “bUt EaCh sPrUe R pEnNiEs Of PlAsTiC” and “muh inflation rate” are, whether purposefully or not, simply bogus arguments. Because neither are even remotely how real world economics work.

And frankly, I am bored to death of the “evil GW” trope. They’re a for profit business. Not a charity. Being on the stock market, and regardless of what us Sad Nerks on the inter webs might think of it, their first and ultimately only duty is to maximise their profits, and generate the best return for their share holders. That’s a legal thing. Non-optional. But hey, we’re just as free as anyone else to buy them shares and reap some of that for ourselves.

Do prices rises suck? Yeah. Of course they do. 100% suckitidue. They suck more than a cordless Dyson switched on in space.

But that doesn’t mean they’re the result of greed. At all.

Now. Here’s another thing for people to at least try to get their head round. The announced increases may well be outside of inflation. And whilst we’ll never know (because GW don’t publish, nor have to publish the exact breakdown) what the true impact of the various financial woes and shenanigans that are going on is on their bottom line.

But let’s look back at my statement about price rises sucking. I still stand by that statement as I consider it to be the most factually accurate statement in this whole thread.

GW knows this. We know this. Their shareholders know this. Nobody wants to scare off their customers. That’s a very silly plan.

The exact percentages here could well be a form of shock absorption. Rather than increase prices year on year, by differing percentiles? These increases may well future proof GW against economic oddities yet to come.

Sucks to be us, the buyer. But what they’re doing just….isn’t immoral. At all.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And frankly, I am bored to death of the “evil GW” trope.

And a lot of us are really frickin' tired of the "They’re a for profit business. Not a charity." excuse.

I’m sure every jerkass has a reasonable explanation for their jerkass behavior. But it is equally reasonable to conclude someone who’s always being a jerkass to you is really just a jerkass.


Meanwhile, Victrix, Perry, Wargames Atlantic, and to lesser extents Mantic, Shieldwolf, Gripping Beast and Fireforge are over here with their apparently alien economics, not doing jerkass things all the time.

There is a difference between "not a charity" and "bragging about year on year record breaking profits but still raising prices". In the grand scheme of things, and especially with their bogus foreign exchange rates that always favors them, they could easily soak most any shortfall and still be reaping millions in profit. And hard to see raising prices across the board by 5-10% as protecting from inflation when they already rose prices by vast sums over the past 4 years.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
....a bunch of dreck

Why should the serfs complain about their feudal master when it's not their lord's fault that they own nothing and have to toil to create value for him. It's just because the system was built that way.

Ah, it’s the price rise bitching thread time of year, is it?

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Ah, it’s the price rise bitching thread time of year, is it?

You only seem to enter threads to comment on the people discussing the topic.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

The Consumer Price Index (by which inflation is judged) is not The Whole Of The Thing. I mean, let’s look at my Council Tax (a tax in the U.K. not linked to income, but to property values set around 1991). My Council Tax is waaaaaay above inflation. That directly affects my disposable income - yet doesn’t factor into the CPI, which again is the benchmark of inflation.

Read the underlined sentence back to yourself and tell me again why this is a great time for GW to be raising its prices.

Compared to the increased cost of other toys I've seen over the past few months, this latest GW hike seems almost reasonable. Last time I looked at Transformers deluxe action figures, they were around $10. Now they're almost $20. I've seen MSRP on certain Lego sets go up over 30% since December. Funko Pops over 25% increase in the same time frame. Some McFarlane figs went from $20 to $25 not long after. Attack ships burning off the shoulder of Orion and all that.

Rather worrisome and makes me concerned about the impending toy-induced collapse of civilization. At least my backlog is big enough that I can laugh at everyone who whined about "moderation" and "buy more only when you paint what you already have." Poor fools.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The exact percentages here could well be a form of shock absorption. Rather than increase prices year on year, by differing percentiles? These increases may well future proof GW against economic oddities yet to come.

Didn't GW make a statement along those lines for one of the prior price hikes only to hike prices again the very next year?

No One Important wrote:
Compared to the increased cost of other toys I've seen over the past few months, this latest GW hike seems almost reasonable. Last time I looked at Transformers deluxe action figures, they were around $10. Now they're almost $20.

Yeah. The Studio Series and War for Cybertron Trilogy lines were a joke for pricing. Power of the Primes was the last time Voyagers were below $25 and it was the last time that stuff was generally worth the price. At least they had gimmicks that were fun. Don't get me wrong, Kingdom gave us a gorgeous Cyclonus but they've definitely lost quite a bit of the "fun" factor in favour of 100% G1 accurate. And apparently, Hasbro is upping the prices again soon, you won't catch me paying £15 for a bloody Scout size figure. Man I miss the Unicron Trilogy stuff...

I hear the new Gobots toys are all jumping off the bridge, GW.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Ah, it’s the price rise bitching thread time of year, is it?

Weird how a price rise provokes complaints about a price rise.
It seems pretty straightforward as cause and effect goes.

The GoBots are like the Kmart of Transformers.

Look at it this way....the value of your current miniatures went up by 5 or 10%.

 zedmeister wrote:

 Segersgia wrote:
If I can see one positive out of this, it is the announcement itself.

Didn't we want them to be more upfront about stuff like this? I can't recall them ever giving us a heads-up announcement about price-increases.

And, just in case anyone thinks they're being in any way generous with this annoucement, they did say:

We’re writing now because we wanted to give you as much notice as we can so þat you can take advantage of þe current prices.

Which, in other words, means shut up and buy.

Well, it IS helpfull.
I have a decently expensive 40k project in mind that I was debating on doing/not doing & if doing, when.
Now I know I need to decide by this weekend, maybe next at the latest, rather than keep mulling around in my head for a few more months.

Wages are up 4% in the US. That is close to break even on a 5% price hike. Personally, I work for as much as my employer can justifying paying me, not the least I can earn and survive. If GW charges too much, people will buy from competitors or stop snorting plastic crack. That is a GOOD thing. GW will have to make their kits (and maybe their game) so awesome it is worth it to buy at higher prices, or drop their prices. I haven't been able to afford/justify GW for years, and it bothers me not a jot.

 kestral wrote:
Wages are up 4% in the US. That is close to break even on a 5% price hike.

What sort of dust are you snorting son?

 GrosseSax wrote:

 kestral wrote:
Wages are up 4% in the US. That is close to break even on a 5% price hike.

What sort of dust are you snorting son?

Anecdotally, the factory I work at raised their starting wages from 15.50CAD at the beginning of 2021 to 19.00CAD today, because we can't get people in the door. It's not just inflation driving wage increases, there's a supply side issue with labor at the moment. Heck, one of the local GW outlets had to close because the manager (i.e. the only guy running the store) has moved on and they have no replacement.

 John Prins wrote:

 GrosseSax wrote:

 kestral wrote:
Wages are up 4% in the US. That is close to break even on a 5% price hike.

What sort of dust are you snorting son?

Anecdotally, the factory I work at raised their starting wages from 15.50CAD at the beginning of 2021 to 19.00CAD today, because we can't get people in the door. It's not just inflation driving wage increases, there's a supply side issue with labor at the moment. Heck, one of the local GW outlets had to close because the manager (i.e. the only guy running the store) has moved on and they have no replacement.

Wage increase for the peasants doesn't mean gak when it doesn't match the rapidly increasing cost of living in the US (and CA). Why bother?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Companies really need to realize their shareholder reports are public documents.

You don't get to brag about record profits in one outlet and the plead poverty in another one.

Sure you do, you just need a legion of unpaid promoters who will defend your actions no matter what.

 privateer4hire wrote:

The increased prices help offset any potential quitters.

I used to joke that under Kirby, their end goal was to sell a single model to a single customer for $200M. Then you don't have to worry about pleasing a bunch of different people with vastly different desires from a wargame, or worry about anyone complaining about prices. It's a weird strategy for something that requires 2 people to play the actual game, you would think they would want as many people as possible in the hobby.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And frankly, I am bored to death of the “evil GW” trope.

And a lot of us are really frickin' tired of the "They’re a for profit business. Not a charity." excuse.

Me too, there's plenty of companies on GW's scale that don't raise their prices more than the rate of inflation literally every year of their existence. If other companies followed GWs pricing increases, a new pickup truck would be $150k and a snickers bar would be $5.

Toofast wrote:
It's a weird strategy for something that requires 2 people to play the actual game, you would think they would want as many people as possible in the hobby.

well, the brilliant idea behind this is to get a many rich people in the hobby to raise the value of the brand and make sure everyone wants to play a GW game, but not everyone can afford one

same as with a Ferrari, Porsche or Maserati and that GW wants to become the Porsche of Miniature Gaming is their long time goal since Kirby took over (this has not changed over the years, just the way to do it changed)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And frankly, I am bored to death of the “evil GW” trope.

And a lot of us are really frickin' tired of the "They’re a for profit business. Not a charity." excuse.

It's not excuse though. It's a fact.

Or are you claiming GW IS supposed to be charity? ROFLMAO!

tneva82 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And frankly, I am bored to death of the “evil GW” trope.

And a lot of us are really frickin' tired of the "They’re a for profit business. Not a charity." excuse.

It's not excuse though. It's a fact.

Same as all other mini manufacturers. And still...

Or are you claiming all mini manufacturers ARE supposed to be charities? ROFLMAO!

At the end of the day, time will tell whether this helps o hinders GW's bottom line.

 vipoid wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

The Consumer Price Index (by which inflation is judged) is not The Whole Of The Thing. I mean, let’s look at my Council Tax (a tax in the U.K. not linked to income, but to property values set around 1991). My Council Tax is waaaaaay above inflation. That directly affects my disposable income - yet doesn’t factor into the CPI, which again is the benchmark of inflation.

Read the underlined sentence back to yourself and tell me again why this is a great time for GW to be raising its prices.

Oh that’s easy.

Everyone’s overheads are going up. And when you’re a company with shareholders, whether we like it or not, your sole responsibility is to those shareholders to maximise profits. So when your overheads go up? So do your prices.

It’s not a difficult concept, is it? Especially when I’ve already explained how inflation is calculated, and why it’s a poor benchmark for the purpose people are trying to put it to in this thread.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

The Consumer Price Index (by which inflation is judged) is not The Whole Of The Thing. I mean, let’s look at my Council Tax (a tax in the U.K. not linked to income, but to property values set around 1991). My Council Tax is waaaaaay above inflation. That directly affects my disposable income - yet doesn’t factor into the CPI, which again is the benchmark of inflation.

Read the underlined sentence back to yourself and tell me again why this is a great time for GW to be raising its prices.

Oh that’s easy.

Everyone’s overheads are going up. And when you’re a company with shareholders, whether we like it or not, your sole responsibility is to those shareholders to maximise profits. So when your overheads go up? So do your prices.

It’s not a difficult concept, is it? Especially when I’ve already explained how inflation is calculated, and why it’s a poor benchmark for the purpose people are trying to put it to in this thread.

except that is BS, considering that GW makes most money not in a currency that is commiting Sudoku due to bad political decisions and ergo therfore is only minimally impacted by it whilest having lower production cost relatively due to inflation locally since it produces most stuff locally (except the slave book printing )

Doesn’t matter. At all.

GW has their production done predominantly in the U.K., yes?

So their overheads are quite directly tied to the economic pressures and that of…..the UK.

If staffing costs go up in the U.K. (we have a National Minimum Wage, which rises above inflation most years), that affects GW. Gas, electric, insurance, corporation tax, local business taxes etc.

Now. Let’s consider corporation tax. Right now that’s 20%. And the more money you take in, the higher that 20% works out to be, yes? If I made £1,000.00, my tax would be £200.00. If I made £1,100.00, my tax would be….£220.00

So that’s another issue when your costs escalate. Any price rise you add on? 20% is earmarked for HMRC.

If I purely wanted to keep up with inflation? Let’s say that’s 4%. I can’t keep up with just a 4% rise, because 20% of that 4% is off go HMRC. So I set it to 5% rise. That lets me keep my prices in-line with inflation.

As I said, it’s almost as if economics is way, way more complicated than folk here are making out.

The silver lining here is the incentive for me to work on my (considerable) pile of shame instead of buying new stuff. Also, if I'm working on the armies I already have (instead of starting new ones) I don't need any new codexes or other rules either, so actually this price increase might save me money in the end!

I think its fuelled also by GW announcing record profits and thus people assuming that GW doesn't need to raise prices because their profits are inflated.

However I'd wager that GW's next year profits might actually lower if we consider that the Corona period generated a vastly abnormally high period of increased spending per customer and an artificial increase in customers. Much like the dog sale boom during lockdowns that then sparked a boom in dogs being abandoned/given up to shelters.

A portion of the new customers won't be long term, once life gets back to normal they'll drift away; meanwhile those who spent way more will now have their money curtailed again as they are putting fuel in the car; they are going out again; they are paying much much more for utilities and such.


Which I think is also reflected in GW's share going down because the "fast rise" bubble has burst. It doesn't mean GW is in a bad place, but it means I'd expect them to make less in profit over the next year than the previous. Or if not less, then they won't in any way show the same year to year growth



I think the other sting with GW is that prices rarely go down with them. True most product lines for luxury goods are often similar, once they go up they stay up; at least until some new upstart company pushes into the market with lower costs and lower prices and either forces the market down or steals the market out from the market leaders.
Which is the other thing with GW; they are somewhat insulated from that. Or at least it would likely take a big firm to make serious investments to make it happen and wargames just aren't juicy enough to make them attractive for such investment.

Sorry what I was trying to say was that regardless of current economic uncertainty in the UK theres a bigger factor IMO that allows GW to get away with infinite 10% increases and its the fact that they have no direct competitors.

Competition and aligning prices to remain competitive is one of the main factors that stop companies from increasing prices to what they want... This is not the case when you have the monopoly.

GW knows they have no serious competition on the terrain front for example.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Doesn’t matter. At all.

GW has their production done predominantly in the U.K., yes?

So their overheads are quite directly tied to the economic pressures and that of…..the UK.

and here you make the mistake.

If staffing costs go up in the U.K. (we have a National Minimum Wage, which rises above inflation most years), that affects GW. Gas, electric, insurance, corporation tax, local business taxes etc.

Now. Let’s consider corporation tax. Right now that’s 20%. And the more money you take in, the higher that 20% works out to be, yes? If I made £1,000.00, my tax would be £200.00. If I made £1,100.00, my tax would be….£220.00

So that’s another issue when your costs escalate. Any price rise you add on? 20% is earmarked for HMRC.

Staffing cost may go up, yes, but their relative income due to hard currency sales already covers that more than enough. Again magic exchange rates and a lot of the world comparatively has low inflation going on.

If I purely wanted to keep up with inflation? Let’s say that’s 4%. I can’t keep up with just a 4% rise, because 20% of that 4% is off go HMRC. So I set it to 5% rise. That lets me keep my prices in-line with inflation.

As I said, it’s almost as if economics is way, way more complicated than folk here are making out.

Sure, alas you forget to take in relative exchange rates, inflation rates between currencies and the fact that GW earns most money outside of the UK, ergo inflation in Uk is pretty irrelevant and not justifying another price rise considering magic outside exchange rates. At most it would justify an price rise IN the UK.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

The Consumer Price Index (by which inflation is judged) is not The Whole Of The Thing. I mean, let’s look at my Council Tax (a tax in the U.K. not linked to income, but to property values set around 1991). My Council Tax is waaaaaay above inflation. That directly affects my disposable income - yet doesn’t factor into the CPI, which again is the benchmark of inflation.

Read the underlined sentence back to yourself and tell me again why this is a great time for GW to be raising its prices.

Oh that’s easy.

Everyone’s overheads are going up. And when you’re a company with shareholders, whether we like it or not, your sole responsibility is to those shareholders to maximise profits. So when your overheads go up? So do your prices.

It’s not a difficult concept, is it? Especially when I’ve already explained how inflation is calculated, and why it’s a poor benchmark for the purpose people are trying to put it to in this thread.

except that is BS, considering that GW makes most money not in a currency that is commiting Sudoku due to bad political decisions and ergo therfore is only minimally impacted by it whilest having lower production cost relatively due to inflation locally since it produces most stuff locally (except the slave book printing )

I know politics is out of bounds but no one seems to care you keep making this claim in this thread so w/e, I'll respond, what the f are you talking about? Where are you getting your currency info? It's not even that this is a difficult thing to check, which makes me wonder if all of your points are being pulled directly from your arse, or just this one.

JWBS wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

The Consumer Price Index (by which inflation is judged) is not The Whole Of The Thing. I mean, let’s look at my Council Tax (a tax in the U.K. not linked to income, but to property values set around 1991). My Council Tax is waaaaaay above inflation. That directly affects my disposable income - yet doesn’t factor into the CPI, which again is the benchmark of inflation.

Read the underlined sentence back to yourself and tell me again why this is a great time for GW to be raising its prices.

Oh that’s easy.

Everyone’s overheads are going up. And when you’re a company with shareholders, whether we like it or not, your sole responsibility is to those shareholders to maximise profits. So when your overheads go up? So do your prices.

It’s not a difficult concept, is it? Especially when I’ve already explained how inflation is calculated, and why it’s a poor benchmark for the purpose people are trying to put it to in this thread.

except that is BS, considering that GW makes most money not in a currency that is commiting Sudoku due to bad political decisions and ergo therfore is only minimally impacted by it whilest having lower production cost relatively due to inflation locally since it produces most stuff locally (except the slave book printing )

I know politics is out of bounds but no one seems to care you keep making this claim in this thread so w/e, I'll respond, what the f are you talking about? Where are you getting your currency info? It's not even that this is a difficult thing to check, which makes me wonder if all of your points are being pulled directly from your arse, or just this one.

compare the infaltion rate of the Eurozone and the pound.

Right now that is 5.4 in the UK whilest only 2.6 in the eurozone 21.
Further that doesn't take into account magic GW exchange rates.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Doesn’t matter. At all.

GW has their production done predominantly in the U.K., yes?

So their overheads are quite directly tied to the economic pressures and that of…..the UK.

and here you make the mistake.

If staffing costs go up in the U.K. (we have a National Minimum Wage, which rises above inflation most years), that affects GW. Gas, electric, insurance, corporation tax, local business taxes etc.

Now. Let’s consider corporation tax. Right now that’s 20%. And the more money you take in, the higher that 20% works out to be, yes? If I made £1,000.00, my tax would be £200.00. If I made £1,100.00, my tax would be….£220.00

So that’s another issue when your costs escalate. Any price rise you add on? 20% is earmarked for HMRC.

Staffing cost may go up, yes, but their relative income due to hard currency sales already covers that more than enough. Again magic exchange rates and a lot of the world comparatively has low inflation going on.

If I purely wanted to keep up with inflation? Let’s say that’s 4%. I can’t keep up with just a 4% rise, because 20% of that 4% is off go HMRC. So I set it to 5% rise. That lets me keep my prices in-line with inflation.

As I said, it’s almost as if economics is way, way more complicated than folk here are making out.

Sure, alas you forget to take in relative exchange rates, inflation rates between currencies and the fact that GW earns most money outside of the UK, ergo inflation in Uk is pretty irrelevant and not justifying another price rise considering magic outside exchange rates. At most it would justify an price rise IN the UK.

As I said. Economics are complicated things. But what we see here are folk, I hope through ignorance rather than anything, treating it as a simple thing.

Print money. Fix economy. Ez.

Not Online!!! wrote:
(except the slave book printing )

You should probably clarify this, because it sounds like you're heavily implying that anything produced in China is automatically made by slavery.

 xttz wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
(except the slave book printing )

You should probably clarify this, because it sounds like you're heavily implying that anything produced in China is automatically made by slavery.

...why do you think it's so cheap?

 xttz wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
(except the slave book printing )

You should probably clarify this, because it sounds like you're heavily implying that anything produced in China is automatically made by slavery.

Aye, basically C&C printing runs a production facility in guangdong province which has been indicated in quote Uyghur labour.

there was a thread not to long ago about that.

And that thread was a steaming pile of gak where the primary instigator couldn't actually prove anything beyond conjecture and possible coincidence.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Right now that is 5.4 in the UK whilest only 2.6 in the eurozone 21.
Further that doesn't take into account magic GW exchange rates.

First page of google search results for 'EU inflation 2022' gives ranges from 3.2% to 5.1%, most common being 5.1% (and the 3.2% hits are on pages written Dec 2021)

Not Online!!! wrote:

 xttz wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
(except the slave book printing )

You should probably clarify this, because it sounds like you're heavily implying that anything produced in China is automatically made by slavery.

Aye, basically C&C printing runs a production facility in guangdong province which has been indicated in quote Uyghur labour.

there was a thread not to long ago about that.

 Gert wrote:
And that thread was a steaming pile of gak where the primary instigator couldn't actually prove anything beyond conjecture and possible coincidence.

Yeah a quick search has not turned up any reputable details on this. All I've found are more posts from people repeating hearsay with no source cited for the claim.

I'd ordinarily make the usual joke about "they do it for free" when it comes to the usual suspects rushing to GW's defence (for free) but I'm curious how many have shares in GW and thus do have a financial incentive to try and make excuses for them.

JWBS wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Right now that is 5.4 in the UK whilest only 2.6 in the eurozone 21.
Further that doesn't take into account magic GW exchange rates.

First page of google search results for 'EU inflation 2022' gives ranges from 3.2% to 5.1%, most common being 5.1% (and the 3.2% hits are on pages written Dec 2021)

happen to run into the estimates files?
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/14233881/2-02022022-AP-EN.pdf/ae797c3b-899c-8d61-afd6-a08eb5f086f6

Wellp, i didn't realise that germany had a estimated 5.1 % rate. Indeed then I am wrong on that.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Ah, it’s the price rise bitching thread time of year, is it?

You only seem to enter threads to comment on the people discussing the topic.

HBMC complaining about people complaining about people is a bit rich.

Cheers for the chuckle. Needed that this morning! I’ll leave you to the ill-informed armchair financial analytics and politics-ban-breaching side spats. Because there isn’t anything of value in this thread. No one likes prices rises. I think it sucks. But a circle jank of whining about it with bonus infighting achieves what exactly?

 Arbitrator wrote:
I'd ordinarily make the usual joke about "they do it for free" when it comes to the usual suspects rushing to GW's defence (for free) but I'm curious how many have shares in GW and thus do have a financial incentive to try and make excuses for them.

Do you really think the - 20 or so people chatting in this thread is going to influence GW's bottom line in any shape or form? I mean I guess one or two could be the rare super-mega-white-whales of the ocean who buy enough stock per month to actually be a measurable percentage of GW's sales, but I'm highly suspicious that such creatures even exist.




It's simply that some see every price rise as driven by pure greed and others see price rises are more complex things where greed/profit is a part of it, but not the entire story and in some cases might not be a major contributing factor at all. Also some of us have been around long enough that we've seen this thread every year; we've heard "GW is too expensive" for - well I've heard it ever since I started in the late 90s or there abouts

I'm sure Pink Floyd summed this up quicker than the 6 pages of comments in this thread.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Doesn’t matter. At all.

GW has their production done predominantly in the U.K., yes?

So their overheads are quite directly tied to the economic pressures and that of…..the UK.

If staffing costs go up in the U.K. (we have a National Minimum Wage, which rises above inflation most years), that affects GW. Gas, electric, insurance, corporation tax, local business taxes etc.

Now. Let’s consider corporation tax. Right now that’s 20%. And the more money you take in, the higher that 20% works out to be, yes? If I made £1,000.00, my tax would be £200.00. If I made £1,100.00, my tax would be….£220.00

So that’s another issue when your costs escalate. Any price rise you add on? 20% is earmarked for HMRC.

If I purely wanted to keep up with inflation? Let’s say that’s 4%. I can’t keep up with just a 4% rise, because 20% of that 4% is off go HMRC. So I set it to 5% rise. That lets me keep my prices in-line with inflation.

As I said, it’s almost as if economics is way, way more complicated than folk here are making out.

I see what you're getting at and it's not *that* complicated, but you are wrong here. You're missing the fact that that 20% tax is already being paid on the previous price, so you don't need a 5% increase to cover a 4% inflation increase, otherwise prices would just constantly run away. Percentages are relative.

If you're making £1000 like you said, you keep £800 of that, £200 goes to HMRC.

To keep pace with inflation, you need to be making 4% more than before. That's 4% more than the £800 though, not the £1000. So an extra £32.

If you increase prices by 4%, so instead of making £1000 you're now making £1040, that means charging an extra £40. Of which like you said, 20% goes to HMRC, which is £8 leaving you with... the £32 you needed to keep up with inflation.

 Galas wrote:

Sunno wrote:
People are talking about GW prices like they have a god given right to be able to afford plastic models which are, at the end of the day, strictly a 1st world luxury item.

GW and other companies will charge what they can get away with. If you can't afford it or think its too much, dont buy it. If sales drop off, a company will need to reassess their approach.

So what. Can't I as a customer complaint about their policies or what?

Removed - rule #1 please

You can complain. But many people here are talking like GW has risen the price of bread or water. GW or any other company will sell at whatever price they feel they can get away with. As customers, buying a purely non essential luxury item, we are complicit in the the price rises because we keep buying the product blindly.

If your a GW customer and you have bought into or supported the drive toward the competitive meta informing almost every element of gameplay, you are doubly to blame Because the comp meta has created a the situation where each new release is more shiny and powerful and costs more. That new shiny thing is then often nerfed at a later date once the sales have dropped off ready for the next slight more expensive shiny

If you want GW to reduce prices then stop buying and chasing the shiny. Vote with your dollar. If you continue to buy at the new prices you give the company the green light to push the envelope even more.

I'd like to point out that taxes are paid on profits not revenue. If costs increase by 5% and income increases by 5%, your profits increase by 0%. So your tax increases by 0%.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
... 20% is earmarked for HMRC.

... 4% is off go HMRC...

Leave me out of this!!!

You silly sausage

Though speaking of Sausage, on a scale of 1-Marmoset, how confused and baffled are you that, for once, Australia isn’t getting the poopy end of the price rise stick?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

deano2099 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Doesn’t matter. At all.

GW has their production done predominantly in the U.K., yes?

So their overheads are quite directly tied to the economic pressures and that of…..the UK.

If staffing costs go up in the U.K. (we have a National Minimum Wage, which rises above inflation most years), that affects GW. Gas, electric, insurance, corporation tax, local business taxes etc.

Now. Let’s consider corporation tax. Right now that’s 20%. And the more money you take in, the higher that 20% works out to be, yes? If I made £1,000.00, my tax would be £200.00. If I made £1,100.00, my tax would be….£220.00

So that’s another issue when your costs escalate. Any price rise you add on? 20% is earmarked for HMRC.

If I purely wanted to keep up with inflation? Let’s say that’s 4%. I can’t keep up with just a 4% rise, because 20% of that 4% is off go HMRC. So I set it to 5% rise. That lets me keep my prices in-line with inflation.

As I said, it’s almost as if economics is way, way more complicated than folk here are making out.

I see what you're getting at and it's not *that* complicated, but you are wrong here. You're missing the fact that that 20% tax is already being paid on the previous price, so you don't need a 5% increase to cover a 4% inflation increase, otherwise prices would just constantly run away. Percentages are relative.

If you're making £1000 like you said, you keep £800 of that, £200 goes to HMRC.

To keep pace with inflation, you need to be making 4% more than before. That's 4% more than the £800 though, not the £1000. So an extra £32.

If you increase prices by 4%, so instead of making £1000 you're now making £1040, that means charging an extra £40. Of which like you said, 20% goes to HMRC, which is £8 leaving you with... the £32 you needed to keep up with inflation.

Entirely fair and factually accurate point

Luckily with my maths skills, I don’t work in finance.

Oh…..

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Though speaking of Sausage, on a scale of 1-Marmoset, how confused and baffled are you that, for once, Australia isn’t getting the poopy end of the price rise stick?

Cynicism reigns supreme, I'm afraid. You think Australia is safe from this? They said that our prices weren't going up. That applies to everything on sale now. That doesn't mean that we won't see new products suddenly have a higher price, so whilst basic squads basic squads stay at the currently already-absurd AUD$98, that new regular infantry box might suddenly come out at AUD$103. And, technically, the price didn't go up, because that's the price it was released at.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
HBMC complaining about people complaining about people is a bit rich.

Who said I was complaining?

It was an observation. In the same way that Gert seems to enter threads to attempt to shut down conversations, you appear in non-YMDC threads and then vanish just as quickly with quick little drive bys. I mean, consider:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Good numbers again. Guess the “boycott” was the hot air we suspected

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Yep. That sounds like Dakka business as usual to me.

That's just the last two. Took no time at all to find.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Cheers for the chuckle. Needed that this morning! I’ll leave you to the ill-informed armchair financial analytics and politics-ban-breaching side spats. Because there isn’t anything of value in this thread. No one likes prices rises. I think it sucks. But a circle jank of whining about it with bonus infighting achieves what exactly?

You're leaving after getting another dig in. Maybe you should listen to yourself:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Maybe some folks need to step away from their keyboards.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
You silly sausage

Though speaking of Sausage, on a scale of 1-Marmoset, how confused and baffled are you that, for once, Australia isn’t getting the poopy end of the price rise stick?

As a point of note, 2021 annual inflation rate was 3.5% down under.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
You silly sausage

Though speaking of Sausage, on a scale of 1-Marmoset, how confused and baffled are you that, for once, Australia isn’t getting the poopy end of the price rise stick?

I guess GW higherups decided that jacking the Aussie prices even further up would actually significantly affect their sales there, to the point it's not gonna be worth it?

GW also have still yet to recruit the extra 150 staff they need to fully open the new distribution hub.

These are due to be recruited this year, once COVID restrictions relax.

That's gonna be around £2 million a year in extra staffing costs, but there will also be an increase in associated costs like utilities etc to go along with it.

 Arbitrator wrote:
I'd ordinarily make the usual joke about "they do it for free" when it comes to the usual suspects rushing to GW's defence (for free) but I'm curious how many have shares in GW and thus do have a financial incentive to try and make excuses for them.

There's been some opinions put forth that simping for capitalism not only isn't based on your own personal interests (obvious), it's not even the misplaced class solidarity we usually hear about (poors voting right because they see themselves as "temporarily inconvenienced millionares") but a mental predisposition to find comfort in hierarchical societal organisation, even if they are on the bottom. Hence the willing slaves.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


Entirely fair and factually accurate point

Luckily with my maths skills, I don’t work in finance.

Oh…..

CONFIRMED!
The problems with the UK finances are because the people in finance can't do maths!!!

It’s alright, I’m kept far, far from the levers of power.

I most just write slightly snarky letters.

To the people who are saying they should just absorb the increased costs via the profits.

How would you like it if your employer had to pay increased tax for you as an employee, so they're using your pay rise to cover it, so rather than keeping up with the cost of living you're comparatively worse off?

Yes they're putting prices up out of a form of need/greed, yes they could absorb them, but they're obligated not to and there's no reason the owners of the company (stakeholders) should de facto take the hit, simply because the customers don't like paying more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s alright, I’m kept far, far from the levers of power.

I most just write slightly snarky letters.

Much appreciating the level headed and reasonable explanation. I am noting most of the people living in the extremes of claiming others are apologists/simps/white knights or whatever the popular term is, tend to not be from the UK, maybe we're just conditioned to this sort of thing.

 Oguhmek wrote:
The silver lining here is the incentive for me to work on my (considerable) pile of shame instead of buying new stuff. Also, if I'm working on the armies I already have (instead of starting new ones) I don't need any new codexes or other rules either, so actually this price increase might save me money in the end!

Same here. When you have a huge pile of shame this only encourages you to stick to your stuff and finish it. For me I might at best buy the tomes/codexes and maybe a dual box or two.

Dudeface wrote:
Much appreciating the level headed and reasonable explanation. I am noting most of the people living in the extremes of claiming others are apologists/simps/white knights or whatever the popular term is, tend to not be from the UK, maybe we're just conditioned to this sort of thing.

Perhaps there is some correlation between living in a monarchy and enjoying serfdom

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:It’s alright, I’m kept far, far from the levers of power.

I most just write slightly snarky letters.

WAIT you're not the kinda person that writes the "you've missed your last TV licence payment - we will be sending the bailiffs to reclaim your home in the morning"
Also has anyone ever seen one of those licence detector vans ever?!

Dudeface wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s alright, I’m kept far, far from the levers of power.

I most just write slightly snarky letters.

Much appreciating the level headed and reasonable explanation. I am noting most of the people living in the extremes of claiming others are apologists/simps/white knights or whatever the popular term is, tend to not be from the UK, maybe we're just conditioned to this sort of thing.

It's the queuing. We are conditioned from a young age to learn how to stand in lines so that everyone gets through the shopping process quickly and efficiently. IT helps keep other things working too on the same theory (though I think Denmark might actually be ahead of us in that regard - at least during pandemic times)

Have any other Euro miniature companies raised their prices recently? I know Corvus Belli did.

Not those sorts of letter!

Different letters. Some bring joy. Some engender rage. I’m doing one right now which I’m rather enjoying….

 BrotherGecko wrote:
Have any other Euro miniature companies raised their prices recently? I know Corvus Belli did.

Warlord Games did so last year. I imagine they might have to do so again this year considering how much of their stuff is still in metal.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
Have any other Euro miniature companies raised their prices recently? I know Corvus Belli did.

I think so, yeah... but not yearly (or nearly so, plus the ever increasing price on new releases), which is the main issue with GW.

I think Mantic did too.

GW puts up prices every year, but not for ever item. Some stuff doesn't get a price increase for years at a time.
This time though, it's a lot more, but by way of items, and the amount increased.

And, they have to tell us about it, due to the shareholders thing. Other, smaller, companies don't.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If staffing costs go up in the U.K. (we have a National Minimum Wage, which rises above inflation most years)

Heavily tangential, but from the PoV of the NMW it actually doesn't keep pace with inflation of things that impact people on the NMW, which is why in the last couple of weeks a new measure, called the Vimes Index (named after Sir Terry Pratchett's Commander Vimes) has been agreed and developed.

 Overread wrote:
WAIT you're not the kinda person that writes the "you've missed your last TV licence payment - we will be sending the bailiffs to reclaim your home in the morning"
Also has anyone ever seen one of those licence detector vans ever?!

You just need to live in the part of the country where the licensing authority is toothless, armless, and legless, then you'll never have a problem.

 Gert wrote:

 Overread wrote:
WAIT you're not the kinda person that writes the "you've missed your last TV licence payment - we will be sending the bailiffs to reclaim your home in the morning"
Also has anyone ever seen one of those licence detector vans ever?!

You just need to live in the part of the country where the licensing authority is toothless, armless, and legless, then you'll never have a problem.

I get regular letter about that. All of which are ignored, because I have a TV License for my flat. And I can prove that, on account I have one.

Trouble for TV Licensing is my flat has had various titles. Second Floor, Top Floor, Flat 1. They’re chasing me for one of those. I’m paying under another. They expect me to fill out a load of forms to correct it. I’m not doing that. They can waste their own time and correct their own records. I’ve done nowt wrong.

Oh Doc I mean that even when the guys come round, they ask to come in, you say no and they just leave. The best part of the UK to live in hands down.

Oh they’re welcome to come in. I’m in the right and properly licensed.

Would be nice if they actually turned up though.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
You silly sausage

Though speaking of Sausage, on a scale of 1-Marmoset, how confused and baffled are you that, for once, Australia isn’t getting the poopy end of the price rise stick?

I guess GW higherups decided that jacking the Aussie prices even further up would actually significantly affect their sales there, to the point it's not gonna be worth it?

Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, I think they're shooting for saturation, raise prices in a market as high as they can without consumers leaving the market entirely. The power of having monopolistic power in a market. They've reached that point with Australia from my current understanding, and they don't have the footing in China/Japan to try it yet. NZ I'm unsure, and my argument falls a bit there, but It wouldn't surprise me if it's a similar situation. In the rest of the world however they've clearly not reached that point yet so they'll keep raising prices, be it justified or not until they hit that point.

I wonder if it could also be a shipping thing. I notice that the countries they aren't rising in are all in the same region of the world.

 Overread wrote:


WAIT you're not the kinda person that writes the "you've missed your last TV licence payment - we will be sending the bailiffs to reclaim your home in the morning"
Also has anyone ever seen one of those licence detector vans ever?!

The vans existed.

Whether or not they can actually 'detect' is another matter entirely.

yukishiro1 wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Companies really need to realize their shareholder reports are public documents.

You don't get to brag about record profits in one outlet and the plead poverty in another one.

Sure you do, you just need a legion of unpaid promoters who will defend your actions no matter what.

Record profits were during pandemic shutdown. Their profit dropped a fair amount (obviously not in a manner to cry poverty ) on the last report and people here were just recently claiming ( again ) that it was the death knell due to 3D printing, so...maybe some people just value objectivity over drama.

Ok, what in the feth is a "TV license"

At the end of the day, if you're running a business that has experienced record sales, continually sells out of new releases, that can't manufacture things quick enough (I understand Covid is part of this), and is heading now into a period of inflation and economic uncertainty, you'd be pretty foolish NOT to consider a cheeky price rise.

As much as I wince sometimes when I pay for my models, I'd rather have a GW rolling in money that takes risks making cool stuff (Eldar reboot, World Eaters, Ash Wastes for Necromunda) than one that's always two bad quarters away from trouble and has to focus on sure things (Space Marines).

 Albertorius wrote:
Ok, what in the feth is a "TV license"

Some countries have to pay the government to fund broadcast TV. It's what funds the BBC.

 Albertorius wrote:
Ok, what in the feth is a "TV license"

If you own a TV connected to an aerial in the UK (I.e. so you can receive broadcast signals*) you have to have pay an annual fee, which is used to fund the BBC and other public broadcasting. Effectively it’s a tax to fund public broadcasting, but it’s called a licence and it’s administered in a weird, separate way due to historical reasons.

* I think it now covers live streaming from BBC iPlayer, etc. too now, but I don’t know the details, because I’ve never looked into the loopholes.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Ok, what in the feth is a "TV license"

Some countries have to pay the government to fund broadcast TV. It's what funds the BBC.

It is the reason a lot of UK TV shows are a longer length than other countries' shows. We don't get adverts on the BBC, so we get more content.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Companies really need to realize their shareholder reports are public documents.

You don't get to brag about record profits in one outlet and the plead poverty in another one.

Sure you do, you just need a legion of unpaid promoters who will defend your actions no matter what.

Record profits were during pandemic shutdown. Their profit dropped a fair amount (obviously not in a manner to cry poverty ) on the last report and people here were just recently claiming ( again ) that it was the death knell due to 3D printing, so...maybe some people just value objectivity over drama.

It's likely that the difference between the two years was a popular 40k edition launch in summer 2020 versus an underwhelming AOS launch in summer 2021. Based on how many Dominion boxes are still around I'm sure their sales targets weren't close to being met.

I reckon that's one of the reasons we're now seeing a strong push on 40k releases before the end of the fiscal year in June. It's telling that AOS is on track to get just four new character models by summer while 40k is looking likely to have 6+ codexes and many new model releases in the same timeframe.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Ok, what in the feth is a "TV license"

Some countries have to pay the government to fund broadcast TV. It's what funds the BBC.

We already do. Through regular taxes. Plus they have commercials.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jadenim wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Ok, what in the feth is a "TV license"

If you own a TV connected to an aerial in the UK (I.e. so you can receive broadcast signals*) you have to have pay an annual fee, which is used to fund the BBC and other public broadcasting. Effectively it’s a tax to fund public broadcasting, but it’s called a licence and it’s administered in a weird, separate way due to historical reasons.

* I think it now covers live streaming from BBC iPlayer, etc. too now, but I don’t know the details, because I’ve never looked into the loopholes.

Well, that's kind of fething backwards. Thanks for the info

 Albertorius wrote:
Ok, what in the feth is a "TV license"

Several points of view exist over the UK's TV licence.

They range from 'It's what allows the BBC to be a world leader in producing quality TV for all' to 'It's what allows the BBC to be a Marxist cesspit producing any old crap knowing they can threaten a granny with prison if it isn't paid while throwing £2million to Gary Lineker to talk about football'.

Individuals mileage may vary.

The only way to legally not pay it is to watch Netflix, Amazon Prime and so on through a computer and not own a TV or live stream the BBC.


Imagine legally having to pay GW an annual fee when you only want to play Warlord's Black Powder!

 TalonZahn wrote:
The GoBots are like the Kmart of Transformers.

Technically, they are Transformers now.

alphaecho wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Ok, what in the feth is a "TV license"

Several points of view exist over the UK's TV licence.

They range from 'It's what allows the BBC to be a world leader in producing quality TV for all' to 'It's what allows the BBC to be a Marxist cesspit producing any old crap knowing they can threaten a granny with prison if it isn't paid while throwing £2million to Gary Lineker to talk about football'.

Individuals mileage may vary.

The only way to legally not pay it is to watch Netflix, Amazon Prime and so on through a computer and not own a TV or live stream the BBC.


Imagine legally having to pay GW an annual fee when you only want to play Warlord's Black Powder!

Well, as I said, we pay taxes, and the public TV is financed through that and commercials. So, technically, we pay for it even if we don't have a TV. So... ^^

 Albertorius wrote:
Well, that's kind of fething backwards. Thanks for the info

Y'know what's even better? If you stream anything at all on any device, phone, tablet, computer, whatever, you still have to pay the license fee.
The problem is that it does provide a service, like how paying taxes pays for things like the NHS, and just because you might not use that service ever doesn't mean it shouldn't be there. The BBC does like 60 odd radio stations, 9 TV channels, a news service that is nominally "independent" and stuff like the BBC World Service.
That being said, if you're lucky like me, the licensing authority has no support from the local government in enforcing payment of the fee so it's not really something people here care/worry about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

alphaecho wrote:
The only way to legally not pay it is to watch Netflix, Amazon Prime and so on through a computer and not own a TV or live stream the BBC.

Nope, the coverage was expanded when streaming became popular.

alphaecho wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Ok, what in the feth is a "TV license"

'It's what allows the BBC to be a Marxist cesspit producing any old crap knowing they can threaten a granny with prison if it isn't paid while throwing £2million to Gary Lineker to talk about football'.

Anyone who believes this is most likely suffering from a serious head trauma and 100% has YouTube recommendations filled with videos of angry men screaming at TV licence inspectors.

It would be nice if companies and institutions in this country could exist to provide a good service and not have to be forced into pushing for profit because of total lack of funding.

But since that is the miserable system which people seem to extol virtues for so we pay the price for our little plastic men.

 xttz wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Companies really need to realize their shareholder reports are public documents.

You don't get to brag about record profits in one outlet and the plead poverty in another one.

Sure you do, you just need a legion of unpaid promoters who will defend your actions no matter what.

Record profits were during pandemic shutdown. Their profit dropped a fair amount (obviously not in a manner to cry poverty ) on the last report and people here were just recently claiming ( again ) that it was the death knell due to 3D printing, so...maybe some people just value objectivity over drama.

It's likely that the difference between the two years was a popular 40k edition launch in summer 2020 versus an underwhelming AOS launch in summer 2021. Based on how many Dominion boxes are still around I'm sure their sales targets weren't close to being met.

I reckon that's one of the reasons we're now seeing a strong push on 40k releases before the end of the fiscal year in June. It's telling that AOS is on track to get just four new character models by summer while 40k is looking likely to have 6+ codexes and many new model releases in the same timeframe.

Wasn't there a thread in News & Rumors that AoS exceeded their expectations? 2021 was relatively huge in AoS releases compared to 40k so I imagine they are trying to zig-zag the release schedule. Last year we had new/updated Soulblight as well as brand new Hedonites, Stormcasts, and new Orruks which apparently sold really well. The big release in that timeframe for 40k was Beastsnaggas and SoB with a smaller release with Black Templars. I would not be surprised if they would want to shake their release schedule from year to year, and that is before counting all the release delays due to BREXIT and COVID.

 Gert wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Well, that's kind of fething backwards. Thanks for the info

Y'know what's even better? If you stream anything at all on any device, phone, tablet, computer, whatever, you still have to pay the license fee.
The problem is that it does provide a service, like how paying taxes pays for things like the NHS, and just because you might not use that service ever doesn't mean it shouldn't be there. The BBC does like 60 odd radio stations, 9 TV channels, a news service that is nominally "independent" and stuff like the BBC World Service.
That being said, if you're lucky like me, the licensing authority has no support from the local government in enforcing payment of the fee so it's not really something people here care/worry about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

alphaecho wrote:
The only way to legally not pay it is to watch Netflix, Amazon Prime and so on through a computer and not own a TV or live stream the BBC.

Nope, the coverage was expanded when streaming became popular.

This isn't correct. You only have to pay a license fee in the UK when streaming if you stream live, broadcast content, or if you stream BBC content via iPlayer.

On-demand streaming from Netflix/Amazon et al does not require a License Fee to be paid.

The BBC are not perfect (heck considering almost the entire Top Gear production team left working for them in one go to jump to Amazon suggests more than one punch caused the shift) and have some bad apples; but in general terms it produces some fantastic stuff. There's a reason the BBC wildlife programs are almost second to none and why so many programs are viewed the world over.


The licence per person is also pretty small by all counts - £160 per household per year. Granted things like Amazon Prime are cheaper at around £80-90 - though Amazon makes up for that by then making money off purchases that you're bound to make because now you'v got free postage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Phazer wrote:

This isn't correct. You only have to pay a license fee in the UK when streaming if you stream live, broadcast content, or if you stream BBC content via iPlayer.

On-demand streaming from Netflix/Amazon et al does not require a License Fee to be paid.

Yep that's how I understood it too. For a time BBC iPlayer let you watch catch-up without any licence registration, but I think now you have to in order to access it (its been ages since I use catch up via pc/internet).

 blood reaper wrote:

alphaecho wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Ok, what in the feth is a "TV license"

'It's what allows the BBC to be a Marxist cesspit producing any old crap knowing they can threaten a granny with prison if it isn't paid while throwing £2million to Gary Lineker to talk about football'.

Anyone who believes this is most likely suffering from a serious head trauma and 100% has YouTube recommendations filled with videos of angry men screaming at TV licence inspectors.

I refuse to pay it now Eggheads has moved to Channel 5 and will only resume when the Beeb starts reshowing Neighbours following Channel 5 dropping the show.

I'm lying. I can never stop while Countryfile is still a thing.

alphaecho wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

alphaecho wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Ok, what in the feth is a "TV license"

'It's what allows the BBC to be a Marxist cesspit producing any old crap knowing they can threaten a granny with prison if it isn't paid while throwing £2million to Gary Lineker to talk about football'.

Anyone who believes this is most likely suffering from a serious head trauma and 100% has YouTube recommendations filled with videos of angry men screaming at TV licence inspectors.

I refuse to pay it now Eggheads has moved to Channel 5 and will only resume when the Beeb starts reshowing Neighbours following Channel 5 dropping the show.

I'm lying. I can never stop while Countryfile is still a thing.

I have to admit whilst its far more entertainment focused, I'd rather watch Clarksons Farm over Countryfile. Countryfile always feels so - sterile - a view of the countryside. Or at least only seems to look at it through a very specific focal point.

 Eldarsif wrote:
Wasn't there a thread in News & Rumors that AoS exceeded their expectations?

GW wrote into their report that AoS 3rd was the biggest Fantasy Launch ever, without any hint by what margins (as it could be from most core boxes sold to most core boxes produced or even most ads on youtube)

but GW also counted the number of "how often an AoS Trailer showed up on the YT feed front page" as views to give the shareholders an impression how popular the IP is

Wildly OT now. The main thing about the Licence is what independent company would consider investing in and making Countryfile if they had to sell it to make a profit. The Beeb have that guaranteed income stream to make niche programs.

Now, when my cousin moved to the Netherlands in the late 80s, she loved being able to watch Eastenders via the Beeb signal without having to pay the fee.

 kodos wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
Wasn't there a thread in News & Rumors that AoS exceeded their expectations?

GW wrote into their report that AoS 3rd was the biggest Fantasy Launch ever, without any hint by what margins (as it could be from most core boxes sold to most core boxes produced or even most ads on youtube)

but GW also counted the number of "how often an AoS Trailer showed up on the YT feed front page" as views to give the shareholders an impression how popular the IP is

I just think the sales of Dominion is a really bad metric to gauge interest in AoS. Indomitus had one of the largest selling miniature line in history of miniatures(Space Marines), whereas Dominion had Stormcast and new orc range. Even people who complain about Space Marines buy Space Marines, that's how well that gak sells.

So if GW really wanted to end the fiscal year on a high note they should technically be selling us more Space Marines and a 2.0 Codex for 9th. It would infuriate a lot of people, but GW's wallets would explode.

alphaecho wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

alphaecho wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Ok, what in the feth is a "TV license"

'It's what allows the BBC to be a Marxist cesspit producing any old crap knowing they can threaten a granny with prison if it isn't paid while throwing £2million to Gary Lineker to talk about football'.

Anyone who believes this is most likely suffering from a serious head trauma and 100% has YouTube recommendations filled with videos of angry men screaming at TV licence inspectors.

I refuse to pay it now Eggheads has moved to Channel 5 and will only resume when the Beeb starts reshowing Neighbours following Channel 5 dropping the show.

I'm lying. I can never stop while Countryfile is still a thing.

99.99% of people can probably just watch Beeb programmes by simply saying "Yes, I have a TV licence' on BBC iPlayer - it's not like they force you to do a check or anything. They just take you at your word. It's great.

I have no overall issue with the fee. I watch a lot of the Beeb.

I find Lineker's pay a little obscene though. My personal opinion is that the Beeb should have a set maximum wage. If any 'Talent' feel they're worth more, they and their Agents can venture out into the free market.

 Eldarsif wrote:
So if GW really wanted to end the fiscal year on a high note they should technically be selling us more Space Marines and a 2.0 Codex for 9th. It would infuriate a lot of people, but GW's wallets would explode.

That is what Horus Heresy 2.0 is for. I am very interested in this because its my main system.

Glumy wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
So if GW really wanted to end the fiscal year on a high note they should technically be selling us more Space Marines and a 2.0 Codex for 9th. It would infuriate a lot of people, but GW's wallets would explode.

That is what Horus Heresy 2.0 is for. I am very interested in this because its my main system.

Me too. Although I fear that with the tank and everything the box will be next level pricing.

 Gert wrote:

The problem is that it does provide a service, like how paying taxes pays for things like the NHS, and just because you might not use that service ever doesn't mean it shouldn't be there. The BBC does like 60 odd radio stations, 9 TV channels, a news service that is nominally "independent" and stuff like the BBC World Service.

On the underlined point, I think it does raise the question of whether everyone should still be paying for said service if only a minority are actually using it.

This is a licence that dates back to an era when TVs had maybe 3 channels, and two of them were the BBC.

I think one can fairly make a case that there is no longer such a dearth of TV channels that a state-broadcaster is necessary (and this isn't even considering all the internet-based programs and such).

That kind of thinking is how we end up with nothing but reality shows on TV and the top 40 on the radio - if anything that should all be left to the private sector and the BBC focus on more specialist stuff

 vipoid wrote:
I think one can fairly make a case that there is no longer such a dearth of TV channels that a state-broadcaster is necessary (and this isn't even considering all the internet-based programs and such).

If one wanted to argue that any content that isn't commercially viable shouldn't exist.

On the underlined point, I think it does raise the question of whether everyone should still be paying for said service if only a minority are actually using it.

Which in turn raises the question of whether the mark of a decent society is how it provides for minorities and marginalised groups, even though it means the majority pay for something they will not access or need. If I don't pay for service X that I don't use should the same apply to service Y. E.g. The majority pay for council services that they will never use, but are of huge benefit for minority and marginalised groups.

it is funny how this threat turned into "should Solidarity exist?"

and yes, all of us paying for something, so the price for everyone stays low, to produce things that just a minority needs and won't be able to afford otherwise, should be the standard not the exception

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
I think one can fairly make a case that there is no longer such a dearth of TV channels that a state-broadcaster is necessary (and this isn't even considering all the internet-based programs and such).

If one wanted to argue that any content that isn't commercially viable shouldn't exist.

Think it’s time for an OT Topic to discuss the BBC.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Ah, it’s the price rise bitching thread time of year, is it?

You only seem to enter threads to comment on the people discussing the topic.

HBMC complaining about people complaining about people is a bit rich.

Cheers for the chuckle. Needed that this morning! I’ll leave you to the ill-informed armchair financial analytics and politics-ban-breaching side spats. Because there isn’t anything of value in this thread. No one likes prices rises. I think it sucks. But a circle jank of whining about it with bonus infighting achieves what exactly?

Remarkable that you could look at the title of a topic, know exactly what it will contain, drop a turd into it, roll around in it, and then flap away while proclaiming you're above this.