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Toofast wrote:
It's a weird strategy for something that requires 2 people to play the actual game, you would think they would want as many people as possible in the hobby.

well, the brilliant idea behind this is to get a many rich people in the hobby to raise the value of the brand and make sure everyone wants to play a GW game, but not everyone can afford one

same as with a Ferrari, Porsche or Maserati and that GW wants to become the Porsche of Miniature Gaming is their long time goal since Kirby took over (this has not changed over the years, just the way to do it changed)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And frankly, I am bored to death of the “evil GW” trope.

And a lot of us are really frickin' tired of the "They’re a for profit business. Not a charity." excuse.

It's not excuse though. It's a fact.

Or are you claiming GW IS supposed to be charity? ROFLMAO!

tneva82 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And frankly, I am bored to death of the “evil GW” trope.

And a lot of us are really frickin' tired of the "They’re a for profit business. Not a charity." excuse.

It's not excuse though. It's a fact.

Same as all other mini manufacturers. And still...

Or are you claiming all mini manufacturers ARE supposed to be charities? ROFLMAO!

At the end of the day, time will tell whether this helps o hinders GW's bottom line.

 vipoid wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

The Consumer Price Index (by which inflation is judged) is not The Whole Of The Thing. I mean, let’s look at my Council Tax (a tax in the U.K. not linked to income, but to property values set around 1991). My Council Tax is waaaaaay above inflation. That directly affects my disposable income - yet doesn’t factor into the CPI, which again is the benchmark of inflation.

Read the underlined sentence back to yourself and tell me again why this is a great time for GW to be raising its prices.

Oh that’s easy.

Everyone’s overheads are going up. And when you’re a company with shareholders, whether we like it or not, your sole responsibility is to those shareholders to maximise profits. So when your overheads go up? So do your prices.

It’s not a difficult concept, is it? Especially when I’ve already explained how inflation is calculated, and why it’s a poor benchmark for the purpose people are trying to put it to in this thread.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

The Consumer Price Index (by which inflation is judged) is not The Whole Of The Thing. I mean, let’s look at my Council Tax (a tax in the U.K. not linked to income, but to property values set around 1991). My Council Tax is waaaaaay above inflation. That directly affects my disposable income - yet doesn’t factor into the CPI, which again is the benchmark of inflation.

Read the underlined sentence back to yourself and tell me again why this is a great time for GW to be raising its prices.

Oh that’s easy.

Everyone’s overheads are going up. And when you’re a company with shareholders, whether we like it or not, your sole responsibility is to those shareholders to maximise profits. So when your overheads go up? So do your prices.

It’s not a difficult concept, is it? Especially when I’ve already explained how inflation is calculated, and why it’s a poor benchmark for the purpose people are trying to put it to in this thread.

except that is BS, considering that GW makes most money not in a currency that is commiting Sudoku due to bad political decisions and ergo therfore is only minimally impacted by it whilest having lower production cost relatively due to inflation locally since it produces most stuff locally (except the slave book printing )

Doesn’t matter. At all.

GW has their production done predominantly in the U.K., yes?

So their overheads are quite directly tied to the economic pressures and that of…..the UK.

If staffing costs go up in the U.K. (we have a National Minimum Wage, which rises above inflation most years), that affects GW. Gas, electric, insurance, corporation tax, local business taxes etc.

Now. Let’s consider corporation tax. Right now that’s 20%. And the more money you take in, the higher that 20% works out to be, yes? If I made £1,000.00, my tax would be £200.00. If I made £1,100.00, my tax would be….£220.00

So that’s another issue when your costs escalate. Any price rise you add on? 20% is earmarked for HMRC.

If I purely wanted to keep up with inflation? Let’s say that’s 4%. I can’t keep up with just a 4% rise, because 20% of that 4% is off go HMRC. So I set it to 5% rise. That lets me keep my prices in-line with inflation.

As I said, it’s almost as if economics is way, way more complicated than folk here are making out.

The silver lining here is the incentive for me to work on my (considerable) pile of shame instead of buying new stuff. Also, if I'm working on the armies I already have (instead of starting new ones) I don't need any new codexes or other rules either, so actually this price increase might save me money in the end!

I think its fuelled also by GW announcing record profits and thus people assuming that GW doesn't need to raise prices because their profits are inflated.

However I'd wager that GW's next year profits might actually lower if we consider that the Corona period generated a vastly abnormally high period of increased spending per customer and an artificial increase in customers. Much like the dog sale boom during lockdowns that then sparked a boom in dogs being abandoned/given up to shelters.

A portion of the new customers won't be long term, once life gets back to normal they'll drift away; meanwhile those who spent way more will now have their money curtailed again as they are putting fuel in the car; they are going out again; they are paying much much more for utilities and such.


Which I think is also reflected in GW's share going down because the "fast rise" bubble has burst. It doesn't mean GW is in a bad place, but it means I'd expect them to make less in profit over the next year than the previous. Or if not less, then they won't in any way show the same year to year growth



I think the other sting with GW is that prices rarely go down with them. True most product lines for luxury goods are often similar, once they go up they stay up; at least until some new upstart company pushes into the market with lower costs and lower prices and either forces the market down or steals the market out from the market leaders.
Which is the other thing with GW; they are somewhat insulated from that. Or at least it would likely take a big firm to make serious investments to make it happen and wargames just aren't juicy enough to make them attractive for such investment.

Sorry what I was trying to say was that regardless of current economic uncertainty in the UK theres a bigger factor IMO that allows GW to get away with infinite 10% increases and its the fact that they have no direct competitors.

Competition and aligning prices to remain competitive is one of the main factors that stop companies from increasing prices to what they want... This is not the case when you have the monopoly.

GW knows they have no serious competition on the terrain front for example.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Doesn’t matter. At all.

GW has their production done predominantly in the U.K., yes?

So their overheads are quite directly tied to the economic pressures and that of…..the UK.

and here you make the mistake.

If staffing costs go up in the U.K. (we have a National Minimum Wage, which rises above inflation most years), that affects GW. Gas, electric, insurance, corporation tax, local business taxes etc.

Now. Let’s consider corporation tax. Right now that’s 20%. And the more money you take in, the higher that 20% works out to be, yes? If I made £1,000.00, my tax would be £200.00. If I made £1,100.00, my tax would be….£220.00

So that’s another issue when your costs escalate. Any price rise you add on? 20% is earmarked for HMRC.

Staffing cost may go up, yes, but their relative income due to hard currency sales already covers that more than enough. Again magic exchange rates and a lot of the world comparatively has low inflation going on.

If I purely wanted to keep up with inflation? Let’s say that’s 4%. I can’t keep up with just a 4% rise, because 20% of that 4% is off go HMRC. So I set it to 5% rise. That lets me keep my prices in-line with inflation.

As I said, it’s almost as if economics is way, way more complicated than folk here are making out.

Sure, alas you forget to take in relative exchange rates, inflation rates between currencies and the fact that GW earns most money outside of the UK, ergo inflation in Uk is pretty irrelevant and not justifying another price rise considering magic outside exchange rates. At most it would justify an price rise IN the UK.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

The Consumer Price Index (by which inflation is judged) is not The Whole Of The Thing. I mean, let’s look at my Council Tax (a tax in the U.K. not linked to income, but to property values set around 1991). My Council Tax is waaaaaay above inflation. That directly affects my disposable income - yet doesn’t factor into the CPI, which again is the benchmark of inflation.

Read the underlined sentence back to yourself and tell me again why this is a great time for GW to be raising its prices.

Oh that’s easy.

Everyone’s overheads are going up. And when you’re a company with shareholders, whether we like it or not, your sole responsibility is to those shareholders to maximise profits. So when your overheads go up? So do your prices.

It’s not a difficult concept, is it? Especially when I’ve already explained how inflation is calculated, and why it’s a poor benchmark for the purpose people are trying to put it to in this thread.

except that is BS, considering that GW makes most money not in a currency that is commiting Sudoku due to bad political decisions and ergo therfore is only minimally impacted by it whilest having lower production cost relatively due to inflation locally since it produces most stuff locally (except the slave book printing )

I know politics is out of bounds but no one seems to care you keep making this claim in this thread so w/e, I'll respond, what the f are you talking about? Where are you getting your currency info? It's not even that this is a difficult thing to check, which makes me wonder if all of your points are being pulled directly from your arse, or just this one.

JWBS wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

The Consumer Price Index (by which inflation is judged) is not The Whole Of The Thing. I mean, let’s look at my Council Tax (a tax in the U.K. not linked to income, but to property values set around 1991). My Council Tax is waaaaaay above inflation. That directly affects my disposable income - yet doesn’t factor into the CPI, which again is the benchmark of inflation.

Read the underlined sentence back to yourself and tell me again why this is a great time for GW to be raising its prices.

Oh that’s easy.

Everyone’s overheads are going up. And when you’re a company with shareholders, whether we like it or not, your sole responsibility is to those shareholders to maximise profits. So when your overheads go up? So do your prices.

It’s not a difficult concept, is it? Especially when I’ve already explained how inflation is calculated, and why it’s a poor benchmark for the purpose people are trying to put it to in this thread.

except that is BS, considering that GW makes most money not in a currency that is commiting Sudoku due to bad political decisions and ergo therfore is only minimally impacted by it whilest having lower production cost relatively due to inflation locally since it produces most stuff locally (except the slave book printing )

I know politics is out of bounds but no one seems to care you keep making this claim in this thread so w/e, I'll respond, what the f are you talking about? Where are you getting your currency info? It's not even that this is a difficult thing to check, which makes me wonder if all of your points are being pulled directly from your arse, or just this one.

compare the infaltion rate of the Eurozone and the pound.

Right now that is 5.4 in the UK whilest only 2.6 in the eurozone 21.
Further that doesn't take into account magic GW exchange rates.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Doesn’t matter. At all.

GW has their production done predominantly in the U.K., yes?

So their overheads are quite directly tied to the economic pressures and that of…..the UK.

and here you make the mistake.

If staffing costs go up in the U.K. (we have a National Minimum Wage, which rises above inflation most years), that affects GW. Gas, electric, insurance, corporation tax, local business taxes etc.

Now. Let’s consider corporation tax. Right now that’s 20%. And the more money you take in, the higher that 20% works out to be, yes? If I made £1,000.00, my tax would be £200.00. If I made £1,100.00, my tax would be….£220.00

So that’s another issue when your costs escalate. Any price rise you add on? 20% is earmarked for HMRC.

Staffing cost may go up, yes, but their relative income due to hard currency sales already covers that more than enough. Again magic exchange rates and a lot of the world comparatively has low inflation going on.

If I purely wanted to keep up with inflation? Let’s say that’s 4%. I can’t keep up with just a 4% rise, because 20% of that 4% is off go HMRC. So I set it to 5% rise. That lets me keep my prices in-line with inflation.

As I said, it’s almost as if economics is way, way more complicated than folk here are making out.

Sure, alas you forget to take in relative exchange rates, inflation rates between currencies and the fact that GW earns most money outside of the UK, ergo inflation in Uk is pretty irrelevant and not justifying another price rise considering magic outside exchange rates. At most it would justify an price rise IN the UK.

As I said. Economics are complicated things. But what we see here are folk, I hope through ignorance rather than anything, treating it as a simple thing.

Print money. Fix economy. Ez.

Not Online!!! wrote:
(except the slave book printing )

You should probably clarify this, because it sounds like you're heavily implying that anything produced in China is automatically made by slavery.

 xttz wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
(except the slave book printing )

You should probably clarify this, because it sounds like you're heavily implying that anything produced in China is automatically made by slavery.

...why do you think it's so cheap?

 xttz wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
(except the slave book printing )

You should probably clarify this, because it sounds like you're heavily implying that anything produced in China is automatically made by slavery.

Aye, basically C&C printing runs a production facility in guangdong province which has been indicated in quote Uyghur labour.

there was a thread not to long ago about that.

And that thread was a steaming pile of gak where the primary instigator couldn't actually prove anything beyond conjecture and possible coincidence.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Right now that is 5.4 in the UK whilest only 2.6 in the eurozone 21.
Further that doesn't take into account magic GW exchange rates.

First page of google search results for 'EU inflation 2022' gives ranges from 3.2% to 5.1%, most common being 5.1% (and the 3.2% hits are on pages written Dec 2021)

Not Online!!! wrote:

 xttz wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
(except the slave book printing )

You should probably clarify this, because it sounds like you're heavily implying that anything produced in China is automatically made by slavery.

Aye, basically C&C printing runs a production facility in guangdong province which has been indicated in quote Uyghur labour.

there was a thread not to long ago about that.

 Gert wrote:
And that thread was a steaming pile of gak where the primary instigator couldn't actually prove anything beyond conjecture and possible coincidence.

Yeah a quick search has not turned up any reputable details on this. All I've found are more posts from people repeating hearsay with no source cited for the claim.

I'd ordinarily make the usual joke about "they do it for free" when it comes to the usual suspects rushing to GW's defence (for free) but I'm curious how many have shares in GW and thus do have a financial incentive to try and make excuses for them.

JWBS wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Right now that is 5.4 in the UK whilest only 2.6 in the eurozone 21.
Further that doesn't take into account magic GW exchange rates.

First page of google search results for 'EU inflation 2022' gives ranges from 3.2% to 5.1%, most common being 5.1% (and the 3.2% hits are on pages written Dec 2021)

happen to run into the estimates files?
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/14233881/2-02022022-AP-EN.pdf/ae797c3b-899c-8d61-afd6-a08eb5f086f6

Wellp, i didn't realise that germany had a estimated 5.1 % rate. Indeed then I am wrong on that.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Ah, it’s the price rise bitching thread time of year, is it?

You only seem to enter threads to comment on the people discussing the topic.

HBMC complaining about people complaining about people is a bit rich.

Cheers for the chuckle. Needed that this morning! I’ll leave you to the ill-informed armchair financial analytics and politics-ban-breaching side spats. Because there isn’t anything of value in this thread. No one likes prices rises. I think it sucks. But a circle jank of whining about it with bonus infighting achieves what exactly?

 Arbitrator wrote:
I'd ordinarily make the usual joke about "they do it for free" when it comes to the usual suspects rushing to GW's defence (for free) but I'm curious how many have shares in GW and thus do have a financial incentive to try and make excuses for them.

Do you really think the - 20 or so people chatting in this thread is going to influence GW's bottom line in any shape or form? I mean I guess one or two could be the rare super-mega-white-whales of the ocean who buy enough stock per month to actually be a measurable percentage of GW's sales, but I'm highly suspicious that such creatures even exist.




It's simply that some see every price rise as driven by pure greed and others see price rises are more complex things where greed/profit is a part of it, but not the entire story and in some cases might not be a major contributing factor at all. Also some of us have been around long enough that we've seen this thread every year; we've heard "GW is too expensive" for - well I've heard it ever since I started in the late 90s or there abouts

I'm sure Pink Floyd summed this up quicker than the 6 pages of comments in this thread.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Doesn’t matter. At all.

GW has their production done predominantly in the U.K., yes?

So their overheads are quite directly tied to the economic pressures and that of…..the UK.

If staffing costs go up in the U.K. (we have a National Minimum Wage, which rises above inflation most years), that affects GW. Gas, electric, insurance, corporation tax, local business taxes etc.

Now. Let’s consider corporation tax. Right now that’s 20%. And the more money you take in, the higher that 20% works out to be, yes? If I made £1,000.00, my tax would be £200.00. If I made £1,100.00, my tax would be….£220.00

So that’s another issue when your costs escalate. Any price rise you add on? 20% is earmarked for HMRC.

If I purely wanted to keep up with inflation? Let’s say that’s 4%. I can’t keep up with just a 4% rise, because 20% of that 4% is off go HMRC. So I set it to 5% rise. That lets me keep my prices in-line with inflation.

As I said, it’s almost as if economics is way, way more complicated than folk here are making out.

I see what you're getting at and it's not *that* complicated, but you are wrong here. You're missing the fact that that 20% tax is already being paid on the previous price, so you don't need a 5% increase to cover a 4% inflation increase, otherwise prices would just constantly run away. Percentages are relative.

If you're making £1000 like you said, you keep £800 of that, £200 goes to HMRC.

To keep pace with inflation, you need to be making 4% more than before. That's 4% more than the £800 though, not the £1000. So an extra £32.

If you increase prices by 4%, so instead of making £1000 you're now making £1040, that means charging an extra £40. Of which like you said, 20% goes to HMRC, which is £8 leaving you with... the £32 you needed to keep up with inflation.

 Galas wrote:

Sunno wrote:
People are talking about GW prices like they have a god given right to be able to afford plastic models which are, at the end of the day, strictly a 1st world luxury item.

GW and other companies will charge what they can get away with. If you can't afford it or think its too much, dont buy it. If sales drop off, a company will need to reassess their approach.

So what. Can't I as a customer complaint about their policies or what?

Removed - rule #1 please

You can complain. But many people here are talking like GW has risen the price of bread or water. GW or any other company will sell at whatever price they feel they can get away with. As customers, buying a purely non essential luxury item, we are complicit in the the price rises because we keep buying the product blindly.

If your a GW customer and you have bought into or supported the drive toward the competitive meta informing almost every element of gameplay, you are doubly to blame Because the comp meta has created a the situation where each new release is more shiny and powerful and costs more. That new shiny thing is then often nerfed at a later date once the sales have dropped off ready for the next slight more expensive shiny

If you want GW to reduce prices then stop buying and chasing the shiny. Vote with your dollar. If you continue to buy at the new prices you give the company the green light to push the envelope even more.

I'd like to point out that taxes are paid on profits not revenue. If costs increase by 5% and income increases by 5%, your profits increase by 0%. So your tax increases by 0%.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
... 20% is earmarked for HMRC.

... 4% is off go HMRC...

Leave me out of this!!!

You silly sausage

Though speaking of Sausage, on a scale of 1-Marmoset, how confused and baffled are you that, for once, Australia isn’t getting the poopy end of the price rise stick?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

deano2099 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Doesn’t matter. At all.

GW has their production done predominantly in the U.K., yes?

So their overheads are quite directly tied to the economic pressures and that of…..the UK.

If staffing costs go up in the U.K. (we have a National Minimum Wage, which rises above inflation most years), that affects GW. Gas, electric, insurance, corporation tax, local business taxes etc.

Now. Let’s consider corporation tax. Right now that’s 20%. And the more money you take in, the higher that 20% works out to be, yes? If I made £1,000.00, my tax would be £200.00. If I made £1,100.00, my tax would be….£220.00

So that’s another issue when your costs escalate. Any price rise you add on? 20% is earmarked for HMRC.

If I purely wanted to keep up with inflation? Let’s say that’s 4%. I can’t keep up with just a 4% rise, because 20% of that 4% is off go HMRC. So I set it to 5% rise. That lets me keep my prices in-line with inflation.

As I said, it’s almost as if economics is way, way more complicated than folk here are making out.

I see what you're getting at and it's not *that* complicated, but you are wrong here. You're missing the fact that that 20% tax is already being paid on the previous price, so you don't need a 5% increase to cover a 4% inflation increase, otherwise prices would just constantly run away. Percentages are relative.

If you're making £1000 like you said, you keep £800 of that, £200 goes to HMRC.

To keep pace with inflation, you need to be making 4% more than before. That's 4% more than the £800 though, not the £1000. So an extra £32.

If you increase prices by 4%, so instead of making £1000 you're now making £1040, that means charging an extra £40. Of which like you said, 20% goes to HMRC, which is £8 leaving you with... the £32 you needed to keep up with inflation.

Entirely fair and factually accurate point

Luckily with my maths skills, I don’t work in finance.

Oh…..