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 GiToRaZor wrote:

GW miniatures/publications are probably still undervalued by about 25-50%.

You're not talking about "value" there. You're talking about "what they could get away with".

And that will very much vary from customer to customer. The important metric there would be whether the people that keeps buying compensates for the people who stops doing so.

K 3D printer setup it is, because unafordable prices are unafordable prices, for me atleast.

 Albertorius wrote:

 GiToRaZor wrote:

GW miniatures/publications are probably still undervalued by about 25-50%.

You're not talking about "value" there. You're talking about "what they could get away with".

And that will very much vary from customer to customer. The important metric there would be whether the people that keeps buying compensates for the people who stops doing so.

I'd wager a lot of people are willing to spend X amount every so often and will continue to do so, but X won't get them as much now.

I find the increase frustrating as it's too much for simply ignore it, but not so much it's a "wow I'm never getting that". They've run the perfect line for me sadly. 20% more at FW will kill that dead for me though.


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Not Online!!! wrote:
K 3D printer setup it is, because unafordable prices are unafordable prices, for me atleast.

Is that 3d printer going to be less than what the 5% extra will amount to on your expenditure for say a year?

Yes, I know it'll be cheaper overall, just curious whether the 5% extra is enough to break the camels back and if so is it such a big amount that your savings will be that heavy.

Dudeface wrote:

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Not Online!!! wrote:
K 3D printer setup it is, because unafordable prices are unafordable prices, for me atleast.

Is that 3d printer going to be less than what the 5% extra will amount to on your expenditure for say a year?

Yes, I know it'll be cheaper overall, just curious whether the 5% extra is enough to break the camels back and if so is it such a big amount that your savings will be that heavy.

Well, it depends realistically and sure i was a tad hyperbolic, but i spend on average a year maybee 500-750 CHF on the hobby. (and am prone to convert and search for alternatives/ avoid blatant cashgrab units like certain elite units and buy mostly via boxes like SC or combat patrolls)
I allready could've bought with that ammount of money a printing set up, asuming i proceed with my "theme" army approach which is about 1-2 years per army a prnter has amortised itself with resin costs in 1.5 years.

Yep. handkerchief maths for me already, because CHF currency exchange rates are magic exchange rates except with a hard currency, make it more profitable to get a 3d printer setup, including wash machine.

(an ok 3d printer is about 350-400 CHF, washstation about 150-300 and resin about 50 / L.)
F.e. the new box price without discount from the FLG's is 179 CHF, which is 143 £ or 193 and change $
eldritch omens in pound is 125

And that is a favourable exchange rate, some stuff like the new Abadon is far more overpriced, so we basically play and pay for price roulette over here.

And a printer prints more than just models.

 Skinnereal wrote:
And a printer prints more than just models.

Sounds like money laundering to me...

 Skinnereal wrote:
And a printer prints more than just models.

That is just bonus to me, with a liter resin i on average can print more models than my forces tend to need, unless i seriously build that one ridicoulus planned out in 7th Horde R&H list which is basically 300 milita men that ammounted to 1050 pts.
Literally any other list i built / build will never come close to depleting that amount of resin.

This is all very interesting if you detach yourself emotionally from it.

I am incredibly curious what the threshold is for prices becoming too high. As others have suggested, they've already hit that point in Australia.

I pretty much exclusively buy things second hand now and recently purchased a 3D printer, so I'm not sure how much this stuff impacts me. But I'm very curious to see how much GW can squeeze people for.

Not Online!!! wrote:
K 3D printer setup it is, because unafordable prices are unafordable prices, for me atleast.

Guess what else has gone up in price over the last year and is set to continue rising (and is often out of stock for ages)

 Overread wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
K 3D printer setup it is, because unafordable prices are unafordable prices, for me atleast.

Guess what else has gone up in price over the last year and is set to continue rising (and is often out of stock for ages)

locally seemingly not.Alas i don't live in brexit land.

Looking for printer recommendations.

Thanks.

 GrosseSax wrote:
Looking for printer recommendations.

Thanks.

For minis, literally anything with a monochrome screen is fine, like a Mars 2, Photon Mono, Creality Halot One, Phrozen Sonic Mini 4k, or any higher grade machine of the same brands.

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
This is all very interesting if you detach yourself emotionally from it.

I am incredibly curious what the threshold is for prices becoming too high. As others have suggested, they've already hit that point in Australia.

I pretty much exclusively buy things second hand now and recently purchased a 3D printer, so I'm not sure how much this stuff impacts me. But I'm very curious to see how much GW can squeeze people for.

Detach is the word. Like I detached myself from all rulesets and Limited box sets GW puts up these days and the more you detach the more you find that you and GW are walking in totally different directions, instead of alongside.

This happened years ago when saturation levels where high and then New GW came up with start collecting, free rules and data sheets for AoS etc etc.
The big difference now is the ridiculous pace of releases and new codex, rules, gang books etc. Gaming shenanigans after a couple years with no gaming because of covid does not motivate anyone.

It is increasingly risky ground for them. Either keep the dividend high or reduce - but a lot of that has been sales growth. In the UK we are about to start being clobbered with our steadily eroding purchasing power due to Brexit, the same problems everyone else is having, the legacy of underinvestment in stuff like energy and inflation on often stagnant wages. Yes there are more savings than normal, but while that could be seen as money there for the taking, if 3d prints get more visibility that could be money that gets diverted to that, and once you print you won't go back to the same level of purchasing.

If I had shares I would be watching like a hawk and seeing what customer behaviour starts to do.


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 NAVARRO wrote:

The big difference now is the ridiculous pace of releases and new codex, rules, gang books etc. Gaming shenanigans after a couple years with no gaming because of covid does not motivate anyone.

I suspect a lot of us have built up big backlogs, I wonder how that will impact stuff?

I am basically thinking of dumping most of my 40k and focusing GW wise on my SG stuff.

I always figured the average GW fan was a 20-40 something single, middle-class guy working in IT with decent financial stability and not those who'd otherwise be pushed out by energy/food/bill rises.

What teens are entering the hobby probably have wealthy enough parents happy to keep paying for it if they didn't do a 180 as soon as seeing how much a box of toy soldiers costs.

The amount of people being priced out is likely minimal and the majority will either begrudgingly or be fine with eating the increase to cover numbers priced out.

60 Victrix historical dudes are £22, just saying.

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
This is all very interesting if you detach yourself emotionally from it.

I am incredibly curious what the threshold is for prices becoming too high. As others have suggested, they've already hit that point in Australia.

I pretty much exclusively buy things second hand now and recently purchased a 3D printer, so I'm not sure how much this stuff impacts me. But I'm very curious to see how much GW can squeeze people for.

I have three 3d printers at home now, two resin and an fdm. I haven't really bought anything GW since... hm. Last I bought was a plastic Thunderhawk, and before that, the special edition box of 40k. Nothing else, and the THawk was really something of a whim. I'm using it to compare sizes with my resin ones xD.


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 Arbitrator wrote:
I always figured the average GW fan was a 20-40 something single, middle-class guy working in IT with decent financial stability and not those who'd otherwise be pushed out by energy/food/bill rises.

What teens are entering the hobby probably have wealthy enough parents happy to keep paying for it if they didn't do a 180 as soon as seeing how much a box of toy soldiers costs.

The amount of people being priced out is likely minimal and the majority will either begrudgingly or be fine with eating the increase to cover numbers priced out.

It's not really an issue of "being priced out". I work two jobs, I could easily pay whatever GW is asking.

But I won't. Because the amount they ask doesn't fit the value I perceive for it. And every time they raise prices, or choose an outrageous price point for something, there's even less stuff from GW that seems to be of value.

Meanwhile, I'm printing and painting a whole lot of stuff for a whole lot of different things. Like all of this for a tactical/rpg campaign I'm prepping:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s…it’s almost as if there are economic forces well beyond their control.

Sure but the thing is they've already raised their prices at well over the rate of inflation for 3 of the last 4 years. They were already "keeping up with inflation" probably 3-5 years ahead of time...


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 krijthebold wrote:
Books are going up 10% too, it looks like.

Blah, is what I say.

Good thing they're only $50 to start with and you only need like 7 to play any one game sys...wait a minute

so because of high energy cost in Britain, books printed a year ago in China increase in price

yeah, everything totally related to the current situation

so I guess because of Brexit, High Energy Cost, Raw Material Shortage etc. we will see a quarterly price adjustment in addition to the standard yearly inflation adjustment while new boxes must be more expensive than the previous one to keep the status of a premium model company

 kodos wrote:
so because of high energy cost in Britain, books printed a year ago in China increase in price

yeah, everything totally related to the current situation

so I guess because of Brexit, High Energy Cost, Raw Material Shortage etc. we will see a quarterly price adjustment in addition to the standard yearly inflation adjustment while new boxes must be more expensive than the previous one to keep the status of a premium model company

I don't really see what your point is? Their current operating costs are up, the tax year is coming to an end/ come to an end for GW, they're now making amendments to cover their increased overheads now. It doesn't matter what the books cost to print a year ago, it matters what it costs to distribute them now.

I can’t imagine buying GW print media even if they dropped the price by 25%. They released the custodes codex and then invalidated points in it, what, a week later?

the point is simple, this price increase has nothing to do with anything of the current situation but is the normal increase we get just with a better excuse

if it would have anything to do with the distribution or changed cost, it would be for all costumers the same
and would not affect items already in stock at the local shops but just the new ones coming in

so this is the normal yearly GW price increase and maybe the adjustment for the changed cost comes in addition later this year

A pound more for intercessors? Yeah, don't care that much.

10% flat increase on the already way-overpriced books and scenery? Extremely crappy, especially the way they're pushing the former like they're a 'boutique' bookstore rather than a miniatures company.

Well, I've already got my Blood Bowl teams so I won't be getting hit by that upcoming 20% markup.

I stopped buying GW* years ago, and feel great. There are plenty of miniature ranges and game systems out there that provide just as much enjoyment or more for a fraction of the cost. I’m only surprised so many people still stick with GW with all of its negatives.


*I still get GW stuff in trades or at bring-and-buy events, where prices are not the issue.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
60 Victrix historical dudes are £22, just saying.

Yeah. 3D printing is one option, but for me the explosion of affordable plastics is the best thing to happen to this hobby. I hope WGA releases their plastic Valkir (not-Space Marines) while these price hikes are still fresh in the gaming consciousness, because I want to see what happens when a company offers a good quality, plastic alternative at about half the cost per marine.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I stopped buying GW* years ago, and feel great. There are plenty of miniature ranges and game systems out there that provide just as much enjoyment or more for a fraction of the cost. I’m only surprised so many people still stick with GW with all of its negatives.


*I still get GW stuff in trades or at bring-and-buy events, where prices are not the issue.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
60 Victrix historical dudes are £22, just saying.

Yeah. 3D printing is one option, but for me the explosion of affordable plastics is the best thing to happen to this hobby. I hope WGA releases their plastic Valkir (not-Space Marines) while these price hikes are still fresh in the gaming consciousness, because I want to see what happens when a company offers a good quality, plastic alternative at about half the cost per marine.

Im thinking how good would be a high quality plastics based on Starcraft and warcraft
60 dudes for £22 is bonkers!

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Yeah. 3D printing is one option, but for me the explosion of affordable plastics is the best thing to happen to this hobby. I hope WGA releases their plastic Valkir (not-Space Marines) while these price hikes are still fresh in the gaming consciousness, because I want to see what happens when a company offers a good quality, plastic alternative at about half the cost per marine.

I have to agree, my spending will be on cheaper product from else where not 3D printing.

I have a 3D printer, and it mainly gets used for scenery, I personally think that 3D printing still has a way to go before it can become as common as people seem to think it will,
print time, clean, cure, dealing with toxic chemicals/fumes, at the moment the downsides for me is just not worth it for army models. scenery however where its a one of piece now and then, its great for.

Toofast wrote:

 krijthebold wrote:
Books are going up 10% too, it looks like.

Blah, is what I say.

Good thing they're only $50 to start with and you only need like 7 to play any one game sys...wait a minute

I feel great about it! I do!

Dudeface wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 GiToRaZor wrote:

GW miniatures/publications are probably still undervalued by about 25-50%.

You're not talking about "value" there. You're talking about "what they could get away with".

And that will very much vary from customer to customer. The important metric there would be whether the people that keeps buying compensates for the people who stops doing so.

I'd wager a lot of people are willing to spend X amount every so often and will continue to do so, but X won't get them as much now.

I find the increase frustrating as it's too much for simply ignore it, but not so much it's a "wow I'm never getting that". They've run the perfect line for me sadly. 20% more at FW will kill that dead for me though.


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Not Online!!! wrote:
K 3D printer setup it is, because unafordable prices are unafordable prices, for me atleast.

Is that 3d printer going to be less than what the 5% extra will amount to on your expenditure for say a year?

Yes, I know it'll be cheaper overall, just curious whether the 5% extra is enough to break the camels back and if so is it such a big amount that your savings will be that heavy.

The bolded sentence is very true. Most people who buy luxury goods have a pretty straightforward budget for said luxuries. Increasing pricing for them is simply reducing overall purchases. (Or causes them to seek replacement goods.)

The only people whose spending increases are tournament players who require a specific combination of kits for specific reasons, and whales.

If you want scenery in any quantity, FDM 3D printer is an absolute no-brainer.

If you're patient and comfortable with a print taking 24 hours or so, 0.1mm layer height creates perfect detail on the print, rivaling a HIPS sprue kit for quality.

£170 or so will get you an Ender 3, and the cost of PLA has gone down now that supply problems have passed, around £10 a kg if bulk purchased.

I'm in the process of printing a full necromunda table for around £40, absolutely packed full of multilayer terrain and criss-crossing walkways. It's something you'd be looking at £500-£700 to recreate with the GW sets.

Printed miniatures are a while away from hitting mass adoption though, due to the toxicity and mess of resin, plus GW can more easily fire lawsuits in the direction of proxies. In that regard, they've got many more decades of their current business model to go.