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Dont those 3d wonders have thousands of lines everywhere? I mean its all good people want to spend time and print to high quality but the services I watched that print things on demand either are freaking expensive or quality is dubious at best. Not interested in spending fortunes to clean ugly lines.

Terrain is easy to build if you really want some for cheap. Rare breed of scratchbuilters and terrain makers these days.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 GrosseSax wrote:
Looking for printer recommendations.

Thanks.

For minis, literally anything with a monochrome screen is fine, like a Mars 2, Photon Mono, Creality Halot One, Phrozen Sonic Mini 4k, or any higher grade machine of the same brands.

Indeed. They're really simple machines, all in all.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Dont those 3d wonders have thousands of lines everywhere? I mean its all good people want to spend time and print to high quality but the services I watched that print things on demand either are freaking expensive or quality is dubious at best. Not interested in spending fortunes to clean ugly lines.

Terrain is easy to build if you really want some for cheap. Rare breed of scratchbuilters and terrain makers these days.

Your modern 2K to 4K 3D resin printer prints with some layer lines visible but mostly only under camera or on a bad angle and they are easily cleaned up. 4K do really well on small build plates and the new 8K that are just coming out on small build plates are nearly totally invisible.


Suffice to say a LOT of the time you won't see the lines at all. You are likely thinking of FDM - the machines that print with a spool of material - which do tend to be a bit trickier to get smooth details out of; but you certainly can. However the liquid resin printers do a VERY Good job (heck GW uses them for masters - most of the painted models you see for box art are 3D printed)

 NAVARRO wrote:
Dont those 3d wonders have thousands of lines everywhere?

not the resin printers, and yes good quality is expensive because of the time needed, which is not a thing if you do it on your own
we are far off that printing on demand is affordable, but buying a printer and spend the time on your own saves the cost

I rather go with cheap plastic from other companies as I don't need that much printed terrain or GW like models

 NAVARRO wrote:
Dont those 3d wonders have thousands of lines everywhere? I mean its all good people want to spend time and print to high quality but the services I watched that print things on demand either are freaking expensive or quality is dubious at best. Not interested in spending fortunes to clean ugly lines.

Terrain is easy to build if you really want some for cheap. Rare breed of scratchbuilters and terrain makers these days.

Not really, no


(well, yes on the bases, but that's because I print them really fast and at 0.2 per layer ^^)

Hey, Boss. I’ve got the price increase draft lists ready.

Okay this looks great. Except pull the paint from getting a price rise. We may just be pushing our luck what with the competition coming out with very similar stuff at right around half the price.

If that stuff catches on big, it’ll be like customers 3D printing paint. We’ll keep prices the same until everyone has forgotten about the other guys stuff. Get someone working on renaming our colors we may need to relaunch, maybe with new bottles or something.

Also we’re already really soaking Australia, New Zealand, China and Japan. They get a pass this time. Make sure to make a big deal about their currencies not being affected. Heh, heh.

Throw in some stuff about material and energy costs going up recently and go ahead and post it.

 Albertorius wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Dont those 3d wonders have thousands of lines everywhere? I mean its all good people want to spend time and print to high quality but the services I watched that print things on demand either are freaking expensive or quality is dubious at best. Not interested in spending fortunes to clean ugly lines.

Terrain is easy to build if you really want some for cheap. Rare breed of scratchbuilters and terrain makers these days.

Not really, no

Spoiler:

(well, yes on the bases, but that's because I print them really fast and at 0.2 per layer ^^)

You answered half the question, I've found that hired print services can be pricey for any level of quality. Often printed units run similar prices to GW if they're well done.

Well, Geedubs have priced me out of the impulse buy. This will be good for me anyhow. Odds and ends from maybe two systems now? Neither of which will be 40k or AoS. It’ll save me money. Just can’t justify the prices any more, even as a collector and especially as a completionist.

How this affects me:

- Will order Sisters/Tau army books before the end of the month. This was planned anyways.
- Won't order Eldritch Omens. Was waffling b/c I want new Eldar and could do a small Chaos force, but now Chaos is straight out and all the new Eldar is going to be even more new-release expensive. Probably won't touch new Eldar unless a sweet Christmas box gets released.
- Won't order direct from GW unless absolutely 100% cannot get something I need somewhere else. I was mostly doing this but GW's free shipping sometimes made the difference on small orders.
- Was already planning on reduced purchases this year from GW anyways, though I did pick up some Christmas Battleforces as they were well suited to holes in my collections. Right now the only major temptation would be the new Horus Heresy box sets for beakies.
- Will work on non-GW projects more (Warlord, TTCombat) and the backlog of GW minis.
- Will probably work eBay/Kijiji/personal trading a bit more to save money.
- Won't buy a 3d printer b/c I like building models.

 John Prins wrote:
How this affects me:

- Will order Sisters/Tau army books before the end of the month. This was planned anyways.
- Won't order Eldritch Omens. Was waffling b/c I want new Eldar and could do a small Chaos force, but now Chaos is straight out and all the new Eldar is going to be even more new-release expensive. Probably won't touch new Eldar unless a sweet Christmas box gets released.
- Won't order direct from GW unless absolutely 100% cannot get something I need somewhere else. I was mostly doing this but GW's free shipping sometimes made the difference on small orders.
- Was already planning on reduced purchases this year from GW anyways, though I did pick up some Christmas Battleforces as they were well suited to holes in my collections. Right now the only major temptation would be the new Horus Heresy box sets for beakies.
- Will work on non-GW projects more (Warlord, TTCombat) and the backlog of GW minis.
- Will probably work eBay/Kijiji/personal trading a bit more to save money.
- Won't buy a 3d printer b/c I like building models.

To respond to your last point, digital kitbashing is pretty fun. I’ll download a few marine builders then use a program called mesh mixer that lets you mesh all the parts into whatever pose you want with it basically. Combine that with integrated rough sculpting tools and it’s basically what you can do basically with plastic stuff and a little more.

On the flipside I like printing GW style multipart minis and do traditional assembly, for example Anvil Industries. Way easier to support too.

Dudeface wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Dont those 3d wonders have thousands of lines everywhere? I mean its all good people want to spend time and print to high quality but the services I watched that print things on demand either are freaking expensive or quality is dubious at best. Not interested in spending fortunes to clean ugly lines.

Terrain is easy to build if you really want some for cheap. Rare breed of scratchbuilters and terrain makers these days.

Not really, no

Spoiler:

(well, yes on the bases, but that's because I print them really fast and at 0.2 per layer ^^)

You answered half the question, I've found that hired print services can be pricey for any level of quality. Often printed units run similar prices to GW if they're well done.

Well, the printer costs $200, and nowadays you get a liter of resin for like $30.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Dont those 3d wonders have thousands of lines everywhere? I mean its all good people want to spend time and print to high quality but the services I watched that print things on demand either are freaking expensive or quality is dubious at best. Not interested in spending fortunes to clean ugly lines.

Terrain is easy to build if you really want some for cheap. Rare breed of scratchbuilters and terrain makers these days.

I think some folks here missed that you were talking about terrain. Yeah, FDM printers will leave noticeable layer lines.

You can print terrain in resin and have no noticeable layer lines, but it's more expensive, slower, and much more constrained in volume. My $150 Photon S caps out at about the size of a Rhino for a single piece, and will take 8-24 hours to print it depending on layer height.

At this point I prefer to scratchbuild terrain or buy MDF. The minis themselves, as well as details to add to the terrain, are better suited to printing.

 John Prins wrote:
- Won't buy a 3d printer b/c I like building models.

You do know there's multipart resin printed models, right?

 NAVARRO wrote:
Dont those 3d wonders have thousands of lines everywhere? I mean its all good people want to spend time and print to high quality but the services I watched that print things on demand either are freaking expensive or quality is dubious at best. Not interested in spending fortunes to clean ugly lines.

Terrain is easy to build if you really want some for cheap. Rare breed of scratchbuilters and terrain makers these days.

Generally, the lines are not an issue. Here is an image of plastic minis with 3D printed heads I got from McDougall Designs. They look great to me.

I’ve got a fleet of BFG ships printed in FDM, and the lines are sometimes noticeable. The ships I have received printed in resin do not show lines like that. And they cost so, so much less than the old metal models.

As for terrain…I will never give up making terrain from dollar store Christmas ornaments and gothic orange juice lids. Or at least planning terrain while hoarding those items.

I mean, they already sell their stuff like 25% more than other retailers? So clearly they don't "need" to raise their prices as they are raking it in hand over fist.

I never buy anything direct from them, they are a rip off. I assume there are some parts of the world that don't have element games/alchemists workshop/wayland etc and are forced to buy from the hideously overpriced GW store, which sucks.

Dudeface wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Dont those 3d wonders have thousands of lines everywhere? I mean its all good people want to spend time and print to high quality but the services I watched that print things on demand either are freaking expensive or quality is dubious at best. Not interested in spending fortunes to clean ugly lines.

Terrain is easy to build if you really want some for cheap. Rare breed of scratchbuilters and terrain makers these days.

Not really, no

Spoiler:

(well, yes on the bases, but that's because I print them really fast and at 0.2 per layer ^^)

You answered half the question, I've found that hired print services can be pricey for any level of quality. Often printed units run similar prices to GW if they're well done.

Where are you buying from? This is not my experience.

Just going to make people even less likely to actually buy GW terrain and books. The value for money on the books in particular is spectacularly bad.

 Albertorius wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
- Won't buy a 3d printer b/c I like building models.

You do know there's multipart resin printed models, right?

Yes, I'm aware, and they seem like a wasted effort unless it's being done to save on resin for bigger models. I guess you reduce the amount of supports when you go that route too?

I've worked with plastic on sprue for 35+ years and I'm happy with it. I don't need another hobby, especially one where I get to wait 24+ hours for a print to finish and then find out I fethed up on scaling or the printer fethed up and I have to bin it and start over. I know people with 3d printers, they're having fun with them, but there's definitely a lot of trial and error going on there. I already have an airbrush to give me frustration.

That and finding space for another hobby appliance (or two) and the product of said appliance. At least boxes of sprue stack up nice and neat in the closet.

So cool hobby, but I don't want to deal with it.

 John Prins wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
- Won't buy a 3d printer b/c I like building models.

You do know there's multipart resin printed models, right?

Yes, I'm aware, and they seem like a wasted effort unless it's being done to save on resin for bigger models. I guess you reduce the amount of supports when you go that route too?

It's also pretty great for poseability, when the kits are just like they would be in plastics, and to help put the supports where the marks won't be visible after assembling.

But I've never had to wait 24+ hours for a print, you know, not even for scenery prints. The longest one I did in resin was a full Predator, which took about 7 hours. But to each their own.

Dudeface wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Dont those 3d wonders have thousands of lines everywhere? I mean its all good people want to spend time and print to high quality but the services I watched that print things on demand either are freaking expensive or quality is dubious at best. Not interested in spending fortunes to clean ugly lines.

Terrain is easy to build if you really want some for cheap. Rare breed of scratchbuilters and terrain makers these days.

Not really, no

Spoiler:

(well, yes on the bases, but that's because I print them really fast and at 0.2 per layer ^^)

You answered half the question, I've found that hired print services can be pricey for any level of quality. Often printed units run similar prices to GW if they're well done.

Depends on where you shop. One of the reasons I've resisted expanding to etsy is that I would have to raise my prices due to all of the extra fee's that storefront charges.

As reference, 20 infantry sized 28mm 3D printed figures runs $35 USD on my webstore. a box of comparable gw plastic (lets say AoS infantry) regularly runs at 10 models for anywhere between $38 to $70 retail.

Mad respect to anyone printing commericially. The labour is awful. I have my own machine and I'd gladly pay someone 5€ per plate just to wash and cure what I print for myself.

 Albertorius wrote:
But I've never had to wait 24+ hours for a print, you know, not even for scenery prints. The longest one I did in resin was a full Predator, which took about 7 hours. But to each their own.

The pedant in me requires I chime in.

My FDM printer churns out very cheap prints, and yes - very large prints can take a long time. I've had chunks of kaiju that take 3 days each. however, those are very large prints at the highest possible quality and it's an absolute edge case. If these guys are talking about a Predator size model in FDM at high quality, 24 hours is probably about right - they're not going to realize you specifically mean resin, I think.

FDM printers are perfect for terrain, and for some terrain, the layer lines actually enhance the model; I printed a Groot sideways that looked amazing. And like anything, you can dramatically reduce the layer lines with light sanding, using a high filler primer, and so on. But I'm not here to evangelize FDM printers - I don't think FDM is really appropriate for anything in warhams world other than terrain, or pretty crude proxies.

I have a Photon mono X, and my guys, that is where it is at. I can churn out a model the size of a Baneblade, have it look as good as injection modeled, it will take about 8 hours, and cost about $7 USD. The future is now, old man. The downsides are many and this is not really the right part of the forum for this, but I literally could not imagine buying models from Games Workshop anymore. $35 for 10 models? Insanity.

Although I guess it is cheaper than $45 for 10 Ork Boyz, lol.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Dont those 3d wonders have thousands of lines everywhere? I mean its all good people want to spend time and print to high quality but the services I watched that print things on demand either are freaking expensive or quality is dubious at best. Not interested in spending fortunes to clean ugly lines.

Terrain is easy to build if you really want some for cheap. Rare breed of scratchbuilters and terrain makers these days.

Not really, no

Spoiler:

(well, yes on the bases, but that's because I print them really fast and at 0.2 per layer ^^)

You answered half the question, I've found that hired print services can be pricey for any level of quality. Often printed units run similar prices to GW if they're well done.

Where are you buying from? This is not my experience.

Etsy, shapeways and the odd ebay seller (although the ebayers have been fairly reasonable overall)

This might also be a regional thing, 3d printers are a little pricier over here, gw is a little cheaper comparatively etc.

Seems like my suspicions are confirmed and this is just me looking at it from a consumer client perspective.

For terrain which is the bit that took the biggest price hike I think GW knows very well that:

Alternatives are not there yet.

-MDF does not offer same detail.
-Resin in big sizes is expensive and breaks
-3d market still not there for many of us consumers with no interest in spending time and money on a printer. The Etsys and printing services on demand for terrain are expensive with no guarantees you will have sharp prints and have a back log.

Dudeface wrote:

Etsy, shapeways and the odd ebay seller (although the ebayers have been fairly reasonable overall)

This might also be a regional thing, 3d printers are a little pricier over here, gw is a little cheaper comparatively etc.

Yea just forget about Shapeways. They use industrial grade machines and charge accordingly, except they're 10 years old and can't match a modern €200 home printer unless you get the triple deluxe stuff that costs more than gold.

Yah, Shapeways is big disappointing. I used them often many years ago and was thrilled with them then... but oh boy, did they quickly not become a valid solution. Ah, well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NAVARRO wrote:


-MDF does not offer same detail.

Correct.

 NAVARRO wrote:
-Resin in big sizes is expensive and breaks

In backwards order, yes - resin is brittle compared to plastic, absolutely correct.
Expensive - depends how you want to slice it. Resin printing absolutely has relatively expensive up front costs, but if compare printing Superheavies and Titans vs buying them from Forgeworld, it's rapidly going to become much, much cheaper.

 NAVARRO wrote:
-3d market still not there for many of us consumers with no interest in spending time and money on a printer. The Etsys and printing services on demand for terrain are expensive with no guarantees you will have sharp prints and have a back log.

Absolutely correct. It's expensive up front, you need to have access to a location where print safely, it's time consuming and requires learning a new skillset.

Ultimately, if you have those things, you can do cheaper prints, more variety, and infinite customization, but it is absolutely not for everyone yet. I still don't think it's a real competition for GWS for the average Jimmy Ultramarines in virtually any situation.

Companies really need to realize their shareholder reports are public documents.

You don't get to brag about record profits in one outlet and the plead poverty in another one.

 Ouze wrote:
Expensive - depends how you want to slice it. Resin printing absolutely has relatively expensive up front costs, but if compare printing Superheavies and Titans vs buying them from Forgeworld, it's rapidly going to become much, much cheaper.

which is a very important point in 3D printing, it is cheap compared to GW/FW and you get better quality than on FW models, compared to other parts of wargaming/tabletop not so much and it really depends on your needs

printing a 28mm niche napoleonic faction no one is doing or only metal models are available, sure, doing french or british, not so much

same for terrain, having the detailed buildings for 28mm Waterloo will be time consuming and expensive compared to MDF which is doing the job, printing the same for 10mm is a different story

Plastic Terrain is out there: Archon produces some great plastic terrain, as does Pegasus Hobbies, and then there’s Mantic, Perry/Renedra, Platformer (or whatever they are called now), with lots of PVC options from Bones, Wizkids, CMON (sometimes), and then you have the Medge terrain sprues that combine plastic terrain details with the savings of kitbashing shoeboxes and gutter joints.