I said not when there are kids around, but with one exception. There is a guy who comes through our local convention every year. He brings his whole family (his wife and two sons). They will all sign up for the same event, and then work as a team to take out anyone else (since events are scheduled for four to eight people, they usually win). They usually beat everyone, and then take all of the prizes and then split them amongst each other. If I play with these guys, I will cuss up a blue streak.
The less really bad words, sure.
It's acceptable when you roll really really badly.
But not cussing all the time, I know a guy who literally talks like this : "So I'm gonna fething move my guys and fething ......" He says feth every other word, it's annoying.
I curse pretty much all the time in regular conversation (has alot to do with hating my job with a passion) so if any one says stuff in front of me I really dont care...
As far as kids...ive never really viewed this as a kids hobby (mainly due to cost issues...Ill admit kids do play but when i was a kid i stuck to affordable hobbies...like magic) as such you take certain risks when you bring your kids in...
I voted 'not when there are kids around'. Quite a few young kids come to our club (not GW), usually playing space marines, and one of them plays FoW. I don't really want to cause any trouble .
They are just words and most kids now a days say it more then most people and most words even worse then some people say. so yeah if i swear i dont go oh sh!* i swore, so yeah they are just words.
i guess i'll only swear in a friendly game, unless it's in a game with some guys in GW (i have only had a game of 40k like 5 times) who seem like really nice blokes who like to have some fun, so you know like saying: "argh, s%^t! lucky bas^&%d!
I swear all the time, of course I am cheating because I've slowly but surely adapted all my swears pretty much to fantasy equivilents.
The odd proper swear slips out now or then, but around 95% of the time I use, feth, Gak, Hells Teeth, barsteward, muppet, frell, some made up nonsense or feck. (Oh and I know the last is in effect an actual swear word, but most English folks I know don't pick up on it.)
As to my thoughts on other folks swearing, doesn't bother me unless the kids are around.
Mainly when kids aren't around.... being rather young myself I use it mainly around friends and people I know are comfortable with it, if it's someone I've never played before I generally wait and gauge how they would react to it....
I usually use swearing to emphasis things.... as quite a few people at my school 'chums' have commented on but my group of friends are fairly ok with that sort of things but we refrain when there are younger kids nearby.
I try not to swear, my area is really bad for swearing so all the kids are really bad with their swearing, but I try too avoid swearing if I can because I am such a moral citizen.
Seriously I hate hearing kids swearing, it seems like such a loss of innocence that I really don't like too see in the youth of tomorrow.
I cursed up a blue streak the other day, when in the last game of a tournament, when I was playing for first place, my first move of first turn involved my land raider immobilizing itself on a piece of grass.
what idiot wrote the marine codex and forgot to give the most powerful tank in the game some way to either ignore terrain or re-roll failed terrain rolls? I don't care if its a 20-30 point upgrade, i'd take it every game.
okay to my earlier post the only time i dont swear is infront of girls and women im a gentlemen lol but around guys i have a trucker mouth lol if kids are around i swear just quietly lol
It really depends. I don't tend to break out the language around kids, but that almost goes without saying. To me, swearing at dice and miniatures is fine, but I tend to sdraw the line at swearing at other players. My FLGS has a couple people who get a little unpleasantly racial with their language and to me that sort of behavior is unacceptable.
I would say fine in private or friendly games. Only time i would call it is at a tournament with sportsmanship. Then it just reaches a level of impoliteness that would dock a little sportsmanship score. Otherwise go right a frelling head.
No different than any other social setting. I personally have no problem with cursing. In fact, I do it a decent bit, myself. Some people don't seem to have a vocabulary beyond the profane, which is a shame, but I don't cringe every time something harsher than "crap" is uttered.
I tend to speak to my audience. If the rest of the room is spewing profanity, I don't hold back. If I'm in a room full of kids, I hold my tongue. If I'm speaking to someone I want to make a good impression on, an authority figure, etc. then I wait for them to establish the precedent for acceptable speech. I don't find it particularly difficult to get a feel for what's acceptable. In those cases that it is, I err on the side of caution, so as not to offend. A simple system that only requires a modicum of tact, which has served me admirably in situations ranging from meeting the girlfriend's parents to dealing with landlords to chatting with strangers to avoiding potential arrest to negotiating extensions with professors.
Whew! Sorry folks. I tend to get a bit verbose after a few drinks. Still sober enough to proofread, though!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Try Again Bragg wrote:Otherwise go right a frelling head.
I don't mind if it's out of genuine anger (like getting ruthlessly tabled or rolling abysmally) but if your motherfething Marneus Calgar is going to fething kick the fething gak out of my fething Daemon Prince (censors included of course), then its just getting out of hand. Please, in moderation, people.
Greetsz,
Mr. Self Destruct
Even with other people who swear, I try to keep it at a minimum. Only when I'm with good friends, or I know the person across the table is fine with it, will I swear freely. The furthest I ever go with is damn, usually. Usually damn or crap is suitable enough, feth and it's equiavalents should usually be left behind (though, if you roll horribly it's understandable) If anything, I guess I'm saying yes, but moderately.
I checked other, it depends on who im playing with.
Usually it doesnt get further then crap, piss, damn and the like.
In dutch cancer, cholera and typhus are also curses which are used pretty often, but i try not to.
Acceptable as long as it's not offending other players. and when it's not personal. (Those things usually go hand in hand, but are not mutually exclusive...)
It's acceptable, I don't mind if someone utters a curse when they roll badly. Though I do tend to get a little pissed when 12 year olds start screaming curses to no end because I win a game against them.
reds8n can testify that I am a cussomatic cussgun, even when I am trying not to. The thing is that I was raised by parents who didn't care much for that language barrier so it has kinda become a part of my vocabulary rather than cursing. That said, I have never ever cursed in any religious building, that's just rude. But if you are a kid, you better watch out, because I do not discriminate in age... =p
I will only accept when people are saying it about what happened to them or about them unless it is really obviously a joke about their army and only if people are friends and are all right with it.
I vary my word usage. My main point is making sure not to overuse any one word or phrase, though I could care less if it's "offensive" or not when I'm around the usual crowd. When the old lady with her grandson comes in I'll definitely use the light version of whatever I was going to say.
I think it's acceptable if you are unlucky (as in rolling 5 2s and 3 1s when shooting with veterans) but, like most of the people that have posted here, i disagree with excessive swearing, andthe furthest it ever goes is the s-bomb (only in very extreme cases, at that, as in kharn being nailed by a hunter killer- you'd of thought he would have had eternal warrior.)
Meh. The idea that words can be "bad" or "good" is giving them power. To suggest that words have power by themselves is to indicate a misguided belief in "majik"; using power words and all that. The equivalent of feck happens to have one of the most robust histories in all of worddom (My word!!!) and is a noun, verb, etc. all at the same time. The most versatile word in history! It can be good, bad, implied, shouted, whispered, emoted, communicated without sound (middle finger!) etc.
I have children that are aged 11, 9 and 4 and they've heard it all from their sailor dad; me! I don't give two donkey ****s what any ****ing body says. They're top of their class, brilliant students that, like myself, appreciate it as a form of expression, and, occasionally a well wordsmithed art form. I generally want to punch people in the face that think a word by itself is for some reason magical, or taboo. It's the emotion conveyed by the word. I can say "I'll see you later." with gritted teeth at the end of a game and have somebody worried about what I'll do later, vice saying "Feck this game. I rolled like a **** in a ***house on ****." and possibly make them laugh.
The idea of protecting the imaginary honor or sanctity of kids is an idea proposed by people that I presume probably don't talk to them about drugs or secks either, until little Jimmy comes home cracked out, with a prostitute on his arm cursing his mom and dad for not preparing him for the real world. lol
The work culture in which I am indoctrinated is so completely saturated with cursing that it's completely expected to pick up the phone and just immediately get an earful before you know who you're even speaking with. It's easy to forget who you're talking to, and frankly, nothing shocks me anymore. Having that been said, I try to curb myself around the little ones. It's society's job to ruin kids, not mine.
I only curse with my friends and I always check with the store manager first whether he minds or not. I typically don't swear in GW because the manager doesn't like the kids hearing it. I don't mind others doing it though as long as it doesn't get into invective. If a stranger starts cussing me out that's a whole different game than if my friend does after I score a direct hit with an Orbital Bonbonbardlement.
But if theyres younger people around its only obvious that you tone it down to whatever necessary level.
Surely the same rule applies thoughout everything in life? You wouldnt walk into a shop with an elderly lady at the till and say 'Oh (*Worst word you know*) Ive forgot my wallet'
lol
Automatically Appended Next Post: Lord Manimal
Meh. The idea that words can be "bad" or "good" is giving them power. To suggest that words have power by themselves is to indicate a misguided belief in "majik"; using power words and all that. The equivalent of feck happens to have one of the most robust histories in all of worddom (My word!!!) and is a noun, verb, etc. all at the same time. The most versatile word in history! It can be good, bad, implied, shouted, whispered, emoted, communicated without sound (middle finger!) etc.
I have children that are aged 11, 9 and 4 and they've heard it all from their sailor dad; me! I don't give two donkey ****s what any ****ing body says. They're top of their class, brilliant students that, like myself, appreciate it as a form of expression, and, occasionally a well wordsmithed art form. I generally want to punch people in the face that think a word by itself is for some reason magical, or taboo. It's the emotion conveyed by the word. I can say "I'll see you later." with gritted teeth at the end of a game and have somebody worried about what I'll do later, vice saying "Feck this game. I rolled like a **** in a ***house on ****." and possibly make them laugh.
The idea of protecting the imaginary honor or sanctity of kids is an idea proposed by people that I presume probably don't talk to them about drugs or secks either, until little Jimmy comes home cracked out, with a prostitute on his arm cursing his mom and dad for not preparing him for the real world. lol
yeah theres a bit of a line though hey, watch out for kids, but really, something pretty bad must happen to get that particularly upset that you need to drop words that your mother wouldnt like to hear.
But if theyres younger people around its only obvious that you tone it down to whatever necessary level.
Surely the same rule applies thoughout everything in life? You wouldnt walk into a shop with an elderly lady at the till and say 'Oh (*Worst word you know*) Ive forgot my wallet'
lol
Automatically Appended Next Post: Lord Manimal
Meh. The idea that words can be "bad" or "good" is giving them power. To suggest that words have power by themselves is to indicate a misguided belief in "majik"; using power words and all that. The equivalent of feck happens to have one of the most robust histories in all of worddom (My word!!!) and is a noun, verb, etc. all at the same time. The most versatile word in history! It can be good, bad, implied, shouted, whispered, emoted, communicated without sound (middle finger!) etc.
I have children that are aged 11, 9 and 4 and they've heard it all from their sailor dad; me! I don't give two donkey ****s what any ****ing body says. They're top of their class, brilliant students that, like myself, appreciate it as a form of expression, and, occasionally a well wordsmithed art form. I generally want to punch people in the face that think a word by itself is for some reason magical, or taboo. It's the emotion conveyed by the word. I can say "I'll see you later." with gritted teeth at the end of a game and have somebody worried about what I'll do later, vice saying "Feck this game. I rolled like a **** in a ***house on ****." and possibly make them laugh.
The idea of protecting the imaginary honor or sanctity of kids is an idea proposed by people that I presume probably don't talk to them about drugs or secks either, until little Jimmy comes home cracked out, with a prostitute on his arm cursing his mom and dad for not preparing him for the real world. lol
Agreed!
Sorry but this is implying that
1) Just because you dictate it as neutral, neither good nor bad, you somehow rob a word of it's power. This in fact is redundant considering that whilst your own opinion stands as such, for the majority of society swearing is a label applied to words that are culturally considered rude or offensive. So being considered culturally rude or offensive by a majority of people, the use of what is considered by yourself to be a neutral word is still offensive and rude.
2) Exposure to said words and the belief illustrated in point 1) creates an immunity to the crass, offensive or rude implications of swearing. The example of prostitutes and drugs for example. Child sex/drug education is now at an all time intensity, and correspondingly, funnily enough, so is under-age sex and drug abuse. The point of the sex/drug education is supposed to be to teach kids Don't do drugs (and unfortunately) Have Safe Sex (when for 9-15year olds it should be "just stay away from it for a bit til you've finished puberty"). So Swearing education would infer that it would have the opposite effect perhaps? As a bloke who is about to become a father, and teaches 3.5 - 19 year olds, the idea of a 9-15 year old even needing to know about safe sex seems plaintively ridiculous. Ignorance is bliss, same should go for drugs, sex and swearing.
Two categories for kids (emphasis on kids):
Pure Ignorance: Sex
Limited Ignorance (Its bad, why, dont do it): Drugs and Swearing
While swearing has saturated most societies, the idea that it is no longer negative is a progressive leftist view, that, whilst it has gained momentum, still lags behind the silent majority of people that believe its still rude. So a child, that swears in front of a group of people at a supermarket, will most likely be considered rude. It matters not what that child thinks or what his/her parents believe.
Disclaimer: This does not take into account circle-of-friends or relatives. A local supermarket should provide a broad spectrum of people, whether considered to be intelligent, rightist leftist or other.
Frequently and with emphasis. "feth" (not "feth," you all know exactly what word I'm talking about) happens to be my favourite word in the English language. It is the only word that can function as a noun, verb, adjective, and adverb. Whenever someone tries to tell me that using explatives is a sign of lacking intelligence, I feel the need to lecture them on how "feth" is the most intelligent word in the English language.
However, I am extremely offended by arbitrary censoring, such as 'fudge,' 'feth.' In fact, as far as speech goes, forms of censorship as such is more offensive to me than any slur you could think of.
Feth, the word of many uses, regardless of it's current use and its boundless nature of being a verb, noun etc, still has the base meaning of sex, usually with rough or violent connotations of some kind. So if some says mother fether, its meaning may have been distilled by that Masterpiece of cinema Snakes on a Plane, it still means that someone or something is violently or roughly describing intercourse with someone mother... hmm
not offensive?
But, if it's gratuitous, then it would kind of spoil it for me. I mean, I cuss every day. Fbombs and such. But there's cussing and the. There's spewing every single bad word in the English language just to explain your dislike of a certain unit or rule. As long as cussing is "tasteful" (...) then I'm cool with it.
I don't mind cursing as such. If you do it a couple of times during a game when you fail the critcial rolls it's no worries but I will view you in a lesser light if you use a curse word every other sentence. Also if youngsters do it "just to be cool" I will tell them off.
It depends on how funny the moment was, a quick s*** is alright if your chaos lord went like a complete dummy to a laspistol and your oponents laughing their head off, after all warhammers a game where you can have a laugh
The idea of protecting the imaginary honor or sanctity of kids is an idea proposed by people that I presume probably don't talk to them about drugs or secks either, until little Jimmy comes home cracked out, with a prostitute on his arm cursing his mom and dad for not preparing him for the real world. lol
Wow. I woke my girlfriend up on the other side of the house laughing on that one. You sir are my new hero, and are getting sig'd
Back on Topic: I dont cure around kids (meaning 12 and under). It just ends badly. Little fethers repeat everything you say
I try to avoid cursing around kids, and around those I would like to respect me. Of course, if they make it clear they don't care if I swear I will. My friends already now I have a habit of swearing violently when I lose my Baneblade in DoW =P
Only when a 1 is rolled on an ork boy's cover save. God that's zogging annoying. And it happens ALL THE TIME.
(For those who don't know, you generally need a 6+)
I don't mind cursing as minor additions to common language and when spoken in a casual manner. Angry cursing bugs me, typically because angry people bug me.
Kirbinator wrote:I don't mind cursing as minor additions to common language and when spoken in a casual manner. Angry cursing bugs me, typically because angry people bug me.
agreed. my friend and I swear a lot during games, but it's just fun goofing around swearing, very rarely angry swearing. However, we have been trained to resist swearing at our local store because it's not just a gaming store, they sell a lot of other items that attract children and adults alike so the employees don't appreciate it. So I have to say only in private.
I am afraid that I swear so much that I don't even notice if other people do it or not most of the time - that is unless they are swearing even more than me, which only a handful of people do.
I often explode with curses when I realize, after my turn is over, that I have done something terribly stupid, or forgotten to do something important, so when gaming, it is mostly directed at myself.
I don't care if kids are present, because they already know all the words, and if they don't; welcome to the real world!
Doesn't bug me one bit, 'specialy considering the obscenities that come pouring out've kids mouths today. And that I have a horrible case of what most refer to as Dock-Worker or Factory Mouth. And as someone stated previously, cost wise this isn't really a kids game. The only obscenities I take offense to are serious racial slurrs and anyone dropping the C word.
kanelom wrote:Feth, the word of many uses, regardless of it's current use and its boundless nature of being a verb, noun etc, still has the base meaning of sex, usually with rough or violent connotations of some kind. So if some says mother fether, its meaning may have been distilled by that Masterpiece of cinema Snakes on a Plane, it still means that someone or something is violently or roughly describing intercourse with someone mother... hmm
not offensive?
As my good friend is married and has 7 kids with his current wife, I can say with nearly 100% confidence that he's a mother fether.
However, when in mixed company (kids, women, and so forth), darn and shoot are the prefered terms for me. That's how I expect other people to talk around my wife, sister, mother and nephew, so I do the same. When with my close friends, I don't mind letting it rip once in a while. We don't cuss that much, anyway.
It all depends on who you are playing with.
With friends and family who know you, let it fly in moderation, as long as there is an understanding of "No harm, no foul" between your competitors.
With complete strangers, keep your swearing to a minimum, last thing you want to do is leave a lasting impression on your opponents that you are not a good sportsman.
I feel that everyone gets frustrated and may slip up a few times, so unless theres kids around I don't mind that much but excessive cursing will get on my nerves.
Its alight when kids arnt around but you dont want little kids hearing potty-talk because they are probabley the future generations of us so beware for little Sh*ts in the futire
Cussing is not really an issue for me... when called for. If you roll six attacks for Mephiston and they all come up ones and twos I'd expect a obscenity or two to slip out.
That said when it's so prolific and excessive then it's just annoying but not really offensive per se.
I'll hold my tongue and use replacement words when the kiddies are in earshot. They probably will think I like "Fudge" a lot and will wonder who Jeez Louise is.
If it's not ok around kids, why does it change when it's only adults? There adult topics and kids topics, but to me it seems like everyone I know who swears knows they're stepping over a line and they do it for one of three reasons:
1. They aren't saying anything worth listening to, so it needs to be spiced up a bit.
2. Their grasp on the language isn't deep enough to get the point across without having to add some shock value.
3. It's a desperate, constant plea for attention utilizing the lowest common denominator.
Sometimes and not real often. If kids are around I would say watch it.
Hit other because it really depends on the curse. A damn, on occasion, is alright but if you're upset enough to drop F's you need to take a break and cool down.
I've never played around kids other than my little brother so i always just let fly, an the people i genneraly play against are just as bad so no one ever has a problem with it.
I hate swearing in the local game store. It's a Family fun center.You don't know who will hear you. Some parent new to game stores. Young players should not hear it. Our store has posted rules ,no swearing. I swear all the F,n time. If I hold my toung at the store and watch what I say ( and type on Dakka) Others should do the same.
In private games It's OK , if the group allows it. Or a smaller game at a local game con, no problem.
Eh, I never really care. When white people use the "N-word" is where I draw the line though. I hear that freakin' everywhere when I play in my FLGS. It's a real shame. They have no idea what the hell they're talking about, or what it means, but they'll use it without restraint, just because there are none of those people around.
Anyway, I think those occasional "WTF, how'd you roll three 5s and four 6s????!!!!" are okay, just keep them to a minimum. Like, less than 3 per game,
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warpcrafter wrote:
Tauzor wrote:fething ok to swear any fething time you like
As an American, I say that censorship is for tyrants. Gamers of the world unite!!!
As an american, I'd like to say, Gamers are Tyrants.
Is it OK to curse in your environment? (i.e. are there kids around, are you playing with your 80 year old devout catholic grandmother who never even thinks a bad word, are there nuns at the next table etc).
Another consideration is just the people youre with. If im with somebody who doesnt like cursing, im less likely to curse because I try to be considerate.
If Im with friends who I know dont have a problem with it, then I am unfiltered.
The 40k doesnt really change the circumstances at all.
TimPas wrote:I think its ok to swear, words like crap etc., but I would never use words that reffer to illnesses or races, ever.
You might think, why illnesses, but in Holland words like cancer, thyphus, etc. are often used.
Said but true i hate it when they go and use illnesses like that too point out how awsome something is and i never got whats is so great about those illnesses. if i face such opponnents in a tournament i will have them disquilified or i just give the battle up and walk away i want too have fun while playing. that said i dont mind mild swearing f*ck and the likes but not too much a couple of times i dont mind but every sentence no please not unless you have gilles de la trouet then you cant do anything about it. i some thimes swear but who doesnt?
but never in a GW store or any other store the staff will correct you in both cases or so they do here in holland.
@Samus_aran115, i am a white but i only use the N-woord when there is a black men thats calling me a cracker or whity or blanda getchu (white cheese head). if they starrt insulting me on the colour of my skin they will get the same treatment you have too agree with me on this on eh?
In the UK, we have a thing called the "watershed". The term refers to the fact that TV shows before 9pm are not meant to have adult features (ie. things that would get them a 15/18 rating as films).
When this system was first devised by consultation around the Mary Whitehouse era, it was found that one thing that parents were very concerned about was swearing on TV. It was seen as an invasion of the home and their right to control what the kids were exposed to etc...
I think that's still very valid. I should not unleash my cunningly constructed vulgarities in front of a kid, maybe his family is nice and swearing is off the menu. Even if they "know" swearing from school I'd suggest not exposing them to the idea that it is fine to swear in normal company.
The arguments for swearing in front of the kiddies are conceptually similar to saying it is fine to bone my girlfriend over the table 'cos kids have all seen that kinda thing on the internet anyway
In the UK, we have a thing called the "watershed". The term refers to the fact that TV shows before 9pm are not meant to have adult features (ie. things that would get them a 15/18 rating as films).
When this system was first devised by consultation around the Mary Whitehouse era, it was found that one thing that parents were very concerned about was swearing on TV. It was seen as an invasion of the home and their right to control what the kids were exposed to etc...
I think that's still very valid. I should not unleash my cunningly constructed vulgarities in front of a kid, maybe his family is nice and swearing is off the menu. Even if they "know" swearing from school I'd suggest not exposing them to the idea that it is fine to swear in normal company.
You're okay with a Tipper Gore style lack of personal responsibility dictating culture? You don't want your kids to be exposed to the big bad scary world? Great, monitor everything they read and watch. Screen them when they go to school and cover their ears if anyone looks like they're going to swear. That's not viable? Okay, in that case, you talk to them about this stuff and treat them like they're adults, not dogs. "Okay Billy, I know you've been seeing people saying bad words on TV. That probably seems cool and "bad". You may have even heard some kids at school talking like that. Here are some reasons why they do it, but here are better reasons why you shouldn't..."
My parents were upfront with me about everything, and I'm as adjusted and well mannered as you could expect an adult to be. My father was an ex-navy engineer who worked on carriers, so I think I've heard about everything too, at a young age. Ironically, it wasn't until I started my latest job and started getting constantly bathed in vulgarity that I began overly indulging in it myself.
No, a lack of personal responsibility controlling culture is not the point. I assume this is implying an idea that people are weak willed and therefore bent by nasty rap music or whatever so we can't let them be exposed to it?
The point is that I respect a parent's wishes, there are different levels of swearing that people consider acceptable. Around children I'll make effort to push mine to zero.
Your final sentence is my point, an environment full of swearing makes you, a fully formed adult, swear more. I'm surprised that happened, but put children in gaming environment where most of the adults swear and it is likely to rub off on them.
Personally I am not in fair of blocking kid's exposure to the extreme extent you suggest (or any at all tbh). BUT I respect the rights of others to raise their kids however they wish
I've always wondered why people are so fussed about swearing, its only words after all. Though if you are using it in a context offensive to your opponent, i think, agreeing with Snikkyd, that it isn't acceptable.
So i don't think it's too bad, and its hard not to when you roll all ones on your terminator armour saves though it should be controlled and not used when there are small children about.
I think that curses are part of the very suppreme being of finnish culture, so it is only acceptable in my opinion that people curse in their games if everything didn't go the way they wanted...
As long as there isnt any actual hate behind it (i.e. calling someone a cheeky b**tard when they pull of some lucky dice rolls/kills), and its not too much (i.e. swearing every other word), then I say its usually quite funny if its delivered well in an exclamation of annoyance etc.
I voted "I don't mind" but I actually feel quite strongly about this issue. I actually take offense at the sort of pointless moral busybodies who condemn profanity. Is there a more pointless thing a person can get their knickers in a bunch over?
The entire concept of "profanity" is a relic of Victorian sensibilities, and is mostly an encoding of their class prejudices -- that's why words with a Germanic origin are "curse words," but Latin root words with the same meaning are "clean." It's a clash of the vulgar argot of British peasantry with the classic education of the upper class. And I have no fecking idea why we modern Americans are supposed to cling to these prejudices.
As for kids...I started gaming when I was twelve, which is about the youngest I've ever seen at a gaming club or con. When I was twelve, way back in the 80's, I already knew all of the major swear words and used them regularly around my friends. And here's my feeling: No kid at a gaming club hasn't heard "bad language" before, and treating these kids as innocent little angels who will drop dead if they hear a naughty word only patronizes them.
So yeah, I'm up with cursing, down with language police.
The only people who can't handle adult words are children. I curse around children all the time, and they're smart enough to understand they're adult words. Regardless of whether you curse in front of them or not, they know the words and use them around their friends.
No more than in normal conversation. It's not a matter of 'protecting my pretty little ears', it's just basic courtesy, like washing daily, or not touching other people's stuff. In any activity, people will look down on you if you swear like a sailor (possibly with the single exception of sailing).
So it's acceptable in small doses, but if I go away thinking of you as that guy who used feth as a verb, noun, adjective, participle and adverb all in the same sentence, you're doing it too much.
Gailbraithe wrote:The entire concept of "profanity" is a relic of Victorian sensibilities, and is mostly an encoding of their class prejudices -- that's why words with a Germanic origin are "curse words," but Latin root words with the same meaning are "clean." It's a clash of the vulgar argot of British peasantry with the classic education of the upper class. And I have no fecking idea why we modern Americans are supposed to cling to these prejudices.
Ah, of course, how could we forget. The victorian working classes were renowned for their knowledge of northern European languages.
I try not to, I feel that if I did my mom would throw a shoe at me. I tend to just a little around people my age, but the when the young ones are around, not one word.
I know when me and my freinds have games most of the swearing tends to come afterwards when you remember all the rules and extras you forgot when playing (most common one from me 'oh s*** I gave that Canonness bionics i could have rolled to see if she got back up)
try not too in front of kids but the occasional curse may slip...or when I really mess up a whole slew of them are muttered under my breath....I'm a mechanic can get pretty colourful, lol
Depends on whether or not it is out of anger. I'll cuss at my (our my opponents) dice with a smile but I'll never swear out of anger and I *hate* guys that get all pissy when the dice fail them and they feel the need to start swearing under their breath (or over it, as the case may be).
I went with other
I am opposed to swearing in it of itself and would prefer it to not be there. On the other hand, It isn't a huge issue and I don't usually care much at all unless my opponent goes on and on or goes too far and gets into things that are more offensive to others around. I would also say that it shouldn't be done in front of kids.
I want to watch my mouth around kids and respect the sensibilities of those I'm not familiar enough with to have a good feel for. I make a conscious effort to avoid blasphemy and generally avoid making any joke or sarcastic remark that might be taken as a proper slur if overheard by someone who isn't "in on the joke." I don't believe it is appropriate to get hostile with people over a game, so cussing someone out in a hostile (rather than jovial) manner is right out.
Just among friends of the same humor and the dice are putting the screws to you, though? it.
My main things are not around kids and you should keep it respectable in your flgs. They are trying to sell stuff, and you never know when the dude in the store listening to your conversation is some new kids highly religious dad checking out where his kid is going to be hanging out.
On a side note, there is one local player who can come up with the most hilarious comments while using combinations of "minor" cuss words. He has left me in tears on many occassions. One day we watched a severly overweight card player struggling to get into a normal sized sedan. Thrasher spent the next 30+ minutes commenting about it, complaining about how the guy was killing the car! He never repeated himself!
I like to throw some minor cussing at my models when they really screw up(especially when it fits their fluff, like Gnoblars and Night Goblins). You know, telling them they suck, or calling them idiots when they totally whiff their attacks, or bicker, or squabble.
Of course, there is this one whiny kid who just starts cussing they crazy when he is losing. Honestly, I'm surprise he has not gotten himself banned yet. The Blackshirt really does not tolerate outbursts of swearing in his Gamesworkshop.
I onlt let it out or let outher people say when we just relax and play a nice game, but tournaments are a bit more serious with more conceentration so I think its not healthy to curse then. I also matters on how old the kid that is standing next to you. but if he is younger then 12 I will shut my mouth.
Actually I don't play. But I suppose I would not use the more "aggressive" words, like the f-word, sh**, racial words, sexual words etc when there are kids around. I think you could say the more "friendly" words. You know - bugger, crap, darn etc.
But if it's a game with friends only, I'd go nuts
meh i am really not bothered by swearing, dont rly do much myself but like at my store nearly no1 rly swears but when they do no1 cares cos every1 knows eachother well so were not gonna get all up in faces bout cussing
^ Just so that someone else doesn't jump in on you. Try to clean up your posts. The numbers instead of words, shortened words and lack of sentence structure is not generally accepted here. I'm telling you this because you are likely to draw a lot of flak from some of the posters here and it doesn't show the expected respectfulness in a post.
Fafnir wrote:Oh, and it's been scientifically proven that, when fighting against Space Wolves, the human vocabulary degenerates to 'feth,' 'space,' and 'wolves.'
oh god I laughed so hard, cause thats exactly right
Gailbraithe wrote:The entire concept of "profanity" is a relic of Victorian sensibilities, and is mostly an encoding of their class prejudices -- that's why words with a Germanic origin are "curse words," but Latin root words with the same meaning are "clean." It's a clash of the vulgar argot of British peasantry with the classic education of the upper class. And I have no fecking idea why we modern Americans are supposed to cling to these prejudices.
Ah, of course, how could we forget. The victorian working classes were renowned for their knowledge of northern European languages.
Do you have a problem with reading comprehension, or are you just incredibly ignorant of history? Your comment seems to indicate both that you completely misunderstood my comment, and that you don't have any understanding of the origins of the English language.
The vulgar argot of the British peasantry is full of Germanic root words, which is hardly surprising since the English language developed from Germanic languages. It has nothing to do with the working class having a knowledge of northern European languages -- its simply a fact that English is full of Germanic roots. It was the upper class that was educated and thus familiar with Latin and the romance languages. That's why "cock," with its strong Germanic roots, is a "dirty" word and "penis," which is Latin in origin, is "clean," even though the two words mean the exact same thing. What that means is that the more strongly one insists that "cock" is foul-language but that "penis" is acceptable, the more one is mindlessly embracing Victorian prejudices that were originally developed to further class consciousness in Victorian society. Likewise, "gak" is derived from the Middle Low German schite, while "feces" is Latinate. "feth" is clearly of Germanic origin, having the same general sound and meaning as the German "ficken," the Dutch "fokken" and the Swedish "fokka," while "intercourse" is, again, Latinate.
So again: When people complain about dirty words, they are engaging in utterly silly and ridiculous prejudices against working class British people of the 17th century. That's not just silly, it's actually stupid, and almost completely indefensible. It is the unthinking, uncritical act of people who make no effort to educate themselves, to understand history, and instead cling mindlessly to traditions they don't understand and whose purpose -- to create a sense of inferiority in working people and to artificially inflate the supposed moral character of the wealthy -- is actively malign.
In short: Complaining about swearing marks a person as both ignorant and prejudiced. You might as well insist that the white man is superior to the savage and unchristian black, and that men have a natural right to dominate weak and corruptible women. I mean hey, if you're going to embrace the prejudices of Victorians, why not go whole hog?
Harsh, but true.
Edited to Add: You'll note that this website has edited the content of my post to hide some of these dirty, dirty German origin words. And why? Because of mindlessness. Because of the unwillingness of this forum's operators to learn the history of their own language and to reject a class consciousness that insists that the working class is morally corrupt and "dirty." It's inane, and I have zero respect for people who think that using "clean" language is somehow more proper.
My vote went to " not when kids are around ".When i do however,it is always quietly and towards my dice.Lately rolling 2's for my PASM's saves and lots of 1's and 2's for vehicle damage is starting to wind me up.I have decided the dice gods really do not like me at the moment.
I try not to but occasionally one just slips out when I'm not being conscious of it, but oh well, they are just words.
Just words. Besides, any kid old enough to be hanging out in a gaming store has probably heard it all on the playground or TV before anyways. Even 'Goonies', a kids movie, was riddled with naughty words. Play the Goonies drinking game and do a shot every time someone say "oh gak" and you would be hammered.
I wish there were a category for "Not when the kids mom is around". It's the parents that get offended I would imagine, not the kid.
I think saying "quit being a rules-lawyering jerk" is far more insulting (and putting someone in their place) than saying "gak" about a bad dice roll. but it doesn't even involve a swear word!
Gailbraithe wrote:Do you have a problem with reading comprehension, or are you just incredibly ignorant of history? Your comment seems to indicate both that you completely misunderstood my comment, and that you don't have any understanding of the origins of the English language.
The vulgar argot of the British peasantry is full of Germanic root words, which is hardly surprising since the English language developed from Germanic languages. It has nothing to do with the working class having a knowledge of northern European languages -- its simply a fact that English is full of Germanic roots. It was the upper class that was educated and thus familiar with Latin and the romance languages. That's why "cock," with its strong Germanic roots, is a "dirty" word and "penis," which is Latin in origin, is "clean," even though the two words mean the exact same thing. What that means is that the more strongly one insists that "cock" is foul-language but that "penis" is acceptable, the more one is mindlessly embracing Victorian prejudices that were originally developed to further class consciousness in Victorian society. Likewise, "gak" is derived from the Middle Low German schite, while "feces" is Latinate. "feth" is clearly of Germanic origin, having the same general sound and meaning as the German "ficken," the Dutch "fokken" and the Swedish "fokka," while "intercourse" is, again, Latinate.
So again: When people complain about dirty words, they are engaging in utterly silly and ridiculous prejudices against working class British people of the 17th century. That's not just silly, it's actually stupid, and almost completely indefensible. It is the unthinking, uncritical act of people who make no effort to educate themselves, to understand history, and instead cling mindlessly to traditions they don't understand and whose purpose -- to create a sense of inferiority in working people and to artificially inflate the supposed moral character of the wealthy -- is actively malign.
In short: Complaining about swearing marks a person as both ignorant and prejudiced. You might as well insist that the white man is superior to the savage and unchristian black, and that men have a natural right to dominate weak and corruptible women. I mean hey, if you're going to embrace the prejudices of Victorians, why not go whole hog?
Harsh, but true.
Edited to Add: You'll note that this website has edited the content of my post to hide some of these dirty, dirty German origin words. And why? Because of mindlessness. Because of the unwillingness of this forum's operators to learn the history of their own language and to reject a class consciousness that insists that the working class is morally corrupt and "dirty." It's inane, and I have zero respect for people who think that using "clean" language is somehow more proper.
Full Reply later, but as a placeholder: My response was humorous/acerbic but reflected a more serious point that linking dirty swear words to germanic roots purely because they were german is logically flimsy in the extreme (It will never be a case of "the peasants speak german", it can only be a case of "they don't speak Latin"; which are quite different things). The history of Latin as the scholarly language and its effect on words would be interesting to consider, but very complicated.
Saying that swearing is all about foolish victorian prejudices from brits that Americans should not be following is factually incorrect. Victorians did not exist in the 17th century (the century mentioned in your first post) nor the 18th century (when American independence occurred). Blaming Victorians for something you dislike that they are evidently not responsible for is its own form of prejudice.
Your response was rude and obnoxious. You are rude and obnoxious. You are, in fact, exemplifying exactly why I hate the nonsensical frothing over the use of some words: because it distracts from the real problematic language, and the ability of people to be aggravatingly hostile and rude without ever using a "swear word."
...but reflected a more serious point that linking dirty swear words to germanic roots purely because they were german is logically flimsy in the extreme.
I never said that. That was not my argument at all. But you've done a smashing job of tearing down that straw-man.
Saying that swearing is all about foolish victorian prejudices from brits that Americans should not be following is factually incorrect. Victorians did not exist in the 17th century (the century mentioned in your first post) nor the 18th century (when American independence occurred). Blaming Victorians for something you dislike that they are evidently not responsible for is its own form of prejudice.
You're right, that was my error, I meant the 19th century/1800s, and was lazily using the term Victorian to refer to the Georgian-Victorian-Edwardian period. My bad. It's rather trivial to the point I was making however, which I think you know. You're clearly more interested in showing off how smart you are. Congratulations, now everyone knows that Atre is smart. Or at least a smart alec.
Be careful of bandying about serious words...
Here's some even better unasked for advice: Don't be sarcastic prick, it's ugly.
feth gak piss ass you guys can be mean! Swear words or not, the tone of hostility is what people sense whether you say 'loser' or donkey-cave the intent is clear. And now we passively aggressively argue over exactly what 'victorian' means??!! makes my tourettes flare up... feth gak piss...
Hi all, I picked 'Acceptable in friendly games'. Is there such a thing as 'tasteful swearing'? You know, like for comedic effect after a bad roll, or when you've just got your butt handed to you? That can actually be loads of laughs But yes, not around children, and not all the time, please!
My take on swearing: Never loud enough for the whole store to hear, and never aggressively at somebody. I've been known to call my opponent some colorful and potentially get-my-arse-kicked things, but I do so with a laugh. We don't take it too seriously, it's just a game.
Perhaps there is no such thing as "polite" swearing, but there is certainly such a thing as light-hearted swearing. It's all about tone and context. I've been known to flip-off my dice when they screw me over.... which seems to happen more often than not.
Gailbraithe wrote:why I hate the nonsensical frothing over the use of some words: because it distracts from the real problematic language, and the ability of people to be aggravatingly hostile and rude without ever using a "swear word."
Why on earth did you not say so earlier?! That is an interesting point.
If german roots are irrelevant then why were they mentioned? That one liner I began with was highlighting the flaws in that. I believe that germanvsromance is a no-starter for a debate point because people swear in their first language (which is not latin) and therefore all classes will express their grievances with pretty germanic phrasing. If you were looking for a case of upper/lower class languages then (by the process you described) then anglo-saxon words would have sourced numerous vulgarities early on in the Norman era - which did not happen [AFAIK].
To clarify, I thought you stated that germanic-root words are common and latin is posh. Therefore the dominance of germanic root words in swearing was classism; the argument is flawed because latin was not the conversational language of anyone... You don't swear in a non-conversational language. The extrapolation of swearing becoming a relic of prejudice seemed bizaare.
The victorian business was more serious than perhaps I made clear, you had said that swearing was continuing the prejudices of Victorians. And yet in the same paragraph you are slaking the Victorians as a boogie-man for something you personally dislike, something that they cannot possibly be responsible for. That looks like prejudice, demonising some group as the source of your grievance. I disapprove of calling prejudice in one direction if there is any hint of it in your own argument. I wish I had an analogy for this concept, but never mind....
There has been no sarcasm since my first post, and there have been several offensive statements generated in return (dislike swearing is like being racist, ad hominem, anti-swearing is classist). Relax.
Atre wrote:If german roots are irrelevant then why were they mentioned? That one liner I began with was highlighting the flaws in that.
No, your one-liner was a rude and dismissive attempt to make yourself look like Mr. Smarty-pants, but it completely failed to actually address the point I made in any substantive manner. Your sarcastic comment about the lower classes of Britain not being experts in Germanic language doesn't address my argument at all, let alone highlight a flaw in the argument, because I never said anything of the sort.
It's irrelevant that the words have a specifically Germanic root, that's just an accident of history stemming from English's origins in Germanic languages, but it's extremely relevant that the lower classes did not have access to the sort of education that would give them knowledge of the complex Latin substitutions and thus had to rely on those Germanic-root words to communicate.
In other words, the uneducated navvie who discovers someone has defecated in his bed can only say "Someones sh!t in my bed!" while the educated gentleman can say "Some vandal has defecated in my bed." The upper class then defines one manner of speech (the common manner) as vulgar, and the other manner as respectable. This allows the upper class man to shame the lower class man for his uneducated speech mannerism, which reinforces the process of othering that makes the upper class synonymous with moral virtue and superiority. Hence it become a tool of classist oppression.
To clarify, I thought you stated that germanic-root words are common and latin is posh. Therefore the dominance of germanic root words in swearing was classism; the argument is flawed because latin was not the conversational language of anyone... You don't swear in a non-conversational language. The extrapolation of swearing becoming a relic of prejudice seemed bizaare.
That is exactly what I'm saying. The argument is not flawed for the reason you state because swearing has nothing to do with "conversational language." Swearing, or more properly vulgarity, arises from the upper class defining the regular speech patterns of the lower class as vulgar and immoral, when in fact it is merely a difference in access to education. There is no actual moral reasoning at work here, no way to demonstrate that saying "sh!t" is more evil than saying "feces," yet the entire concept of swearing requires us to accept that feces is fine (and thus won't be filtered when I hit submit), but that "gak" is immoral or "dirty." There is only the classism that allows the upper class to define the language of those whom the upper class denied educational opportunities as immoral for their lack of education.
There has been no sarcasm since my first post, and there have been several offensive statements generated in return (dislike swearing is like being racist, ad hominem, anti-swearing is classist). Relax.
First of all, saying that you are a smart-alec is not an ad hominem fallacy. It's an observation of the way you deport yourself. It would only be ad hominem if I said you were wrong because you were being a smart-alec. What I'm saying is that because you are a smart-alec you too easily and too quickly dismissed my argument in a rude manner. You're not wrong because you are a smart-alec, you are wrong because you are engaging in a straw-man fallacy. You are attacking a straw-man because, and make no mistake this is obvious to everyone, you were more interested in demonstrating that you can casually dismiss other people in a "acerbic" manner than honestly engaging the idea.
If you don't want me to call you a smart alec, then don't try to score points off me with your "sarcastic/acerbic" comments, because I am not here to be the butt of your jokes, and you will offend me by attempting to put me in that role. In other words; if you don't want to be called out on your rude behavior, stop engaging in rude behavior. And if you are somehow unaware of this: using sarcasm to dismiss other people's ideas is always rude. There is a reason why sarcasm is considered the lowest form of humor.
Second, there is nothing offensive about saying that disliking swearing is like being racist, and is a historical form of classism. The argument I'm presenting may be challenging, because it forces one to consider the actual reasoning and rationale behind the denunciation of some words, but to call it offensive is ridiculous. I'll bet your one of those people who thinks being called a racist is an insult, when it is in fact an accusation.
Also, don't tell me to relax. You've offended me, I've made that clear. If you want me to relax, there is a simple remedy for this problem: apologize. Telling me to relax when you've aggrieved me is just another dismissal. I have every right to be offended by you trying to score points off me, and you have no right at all to slap me and then tell me to calm down.
Shag again. Isn't it obvious that words are not directly racist unless their intention is such? Opposition to certain words for 'proper' reasons is equally stupidly misconstruing the entire point of language as a means of conveying what is on one's mind. Objection to swear words is up there with grammar-nazi style annoying irrelevances. I have black friends around whom I say '[see forum posting rules]' in conversation and there is no malicious intent and they know it too. Just a word mah [see forum posting rules]. just a word. Making Germanic versus Latin roots of words an issue is seriously arguing about gak that doesnt fething matter. shag.
Ah, then here we arrive at a problem. I would choose to define vulgarity & swearing as subtlety different. Although I have not made this clear until now, which is perhaps a flaw.
In the case of looking the whole way someone speaks and defining it as vulgar (in the way that gang-speak or cockney rhyming slang [a while ago] would be seen as evidence of being a rough individual) then I agree with you as to why the difference arises. I see this as rough speaking rather than swearing. But this is not just classism, speech patterns define groups - regional accents so forth - and judging someone by their speech is not really a commentary on classes as it is a commentary between any two self-defining groups. It is "that word makes you common/northern/scouse/london club scene/hillbilly" rather than the invention of swearing.
Swearing is (to my personal ruleset) synonymous with expletive, an outburst (feth ouch, gak where's my wallet etc...) and it is distinct from normal language in a rather interesting manner - it fires different parts of your brain [to normal speaking]. What you swear 'with' is all about cultural connotations where I cannot claim expertise but I REALLY doubt your hypothesis, you swear with a part of your own lexicon rather than using someone else's. But I can't argue forcefully on this point because I lack the expertise.
So, classism is various ways perhaps (but I see language as separating groups, and classism is not special here). I like some of your points, but I cannot fathom the reason for the focus on classism as the cause and big evil.
Back to the less pleasant Racism business is an insult of sorts, because it is saying that by opposing the argument you are acting like a racist*. This is "guilt by association" and can be filed under ad hominem, and in the realms of the internet this kind of thing also crops up as Godwin's law.
*Yes there is a nice subtlety between an insult and accusing someone of being an insulting thing. But it is generally seen as an offensive accusation so I would decidedly land in the former camp as suggested... but I also bet I'm one of the people who can tell the difference between Your & You're**
**Sorry, you're not going to be happy with that bit.
***As for the use of opportunistic humour... Sorry, it's a British thing.
Source: This is one of the interesting papers, but is doesn't mention the fMRI scans I recall in the paper I wanted to reference ping! paper
Atre wrote:Ah, then here we arrive at a problem. I would choose to define vulgarity & swearing as subtlety different.
Good for you, but making up your own definitions for terms and then correcting other people on the basis of your own made-up definitions only marks you as a person not worth talking to.
Racism business is an insult of sorts, because it is saying that by opposing the argument you are acting like a racist*. This is "guilt by association" and can be filed under ad hominem, and in the realms of the internet this kind of thing also crops up as Godwin's law.
No, accusing some of racism is an accusation. Specifically it is an accussation that the person in question is engaging in racism, whether consciously or not. It is not an insult. Certain disingenuous right-wingers have attempted to redefine the accusation of racism as an insult so that they may deflect the accusation of racism and change the subject to the supposed offensiveness of of the supposed insult. It also neatly implies that the accusation is baseless without ever once actually addressing the charge.
In other words, calling an accusation of racism an insult is nothing more than means of protecting racists from the charge of racism. This is why, in my experience, only racists claim that calling someone a racist is an insult.
*Yes there is a nice subtlety between an insult and accusing someone of being an insulting thing. But it is an intentionally offensive accusation so I would decidedly land in the former camp as suggested, but I also bet I'm one of the people who can tell the difference between Your & You're**
**Sorry, you're not going to be happy with that bit.
***As for the use of opportunistic humour... Sorry, it's a British thing.
It's not a British thing, it's an obnoxious smart-alec thing. Welcome to ignore, Arte. You're clearly not worth engaging with.
Taking people's specific words which may well be racially charged out of context is, as Gailbraithe was detailing, a character assassination against the supposedly 'racist'. Because anyone and everyone I know knows the difference between a "n!gger" and "n!gga!" but the PC police will still find something to hit someone over the head with. I'm friends with japs, wops, spiks, [see forum posting rules], honkeys and so on. None of those words matter given context. The intent is the only consideration.
Guitardian wrote:Taking people's specific words which may well be racially charged out of context is, as Gailbraithe was detailing, a character assassination against the supposedly 'racist'. Because anyone and everyone I know knows the difference between a "n!gger" and "n!gga!" but the PC police will still find something to hit someone over the head with. I'm friends with japs, wops, spiks, [see forum posting rules], honkeys and so on. None of those words matter given context. The intent is the only consideration.
You know, I was just going to let your last comment slide, but no. You are completely wrong.
As a person of Italian heritage, I don't like being called a wop -- and I have been called that, with the intent to dismiss. I find that really offensive. I don't care what your "intent" is, the reality is that you're tossing out racist slurs that serve only one purpose: To remind other people that they are not white, not part of the dominant group, that they don't have the power. There is no context in which a white person throwing out racist slurs is not abusing their privileged position in our society.
But that is a much bigger discussion than one on cursing, and one I am loathe to get into on a wargaming forum, since there tends to be a lot of racism in the wargaming community, and not a lot of willingness to have that racism challenged.
Ever heard the term 'honkey' or 'limey' either? It isn't a privelige, its a joke between friends when used in the right context. My buddy from mexican descent I frequently call "Yo Aztec"... as in "Yo Aztec you want another beer while I'm up..."... He in turn calls me "limey" in other incidents and we both don't care at all and just have fun using racial slurs to make fun of racial slurs. So yes it is all context man. I'm sorry that being called a 'wop' offends you to the extent of losing a sense of humor about the whole idea and I shall make a point not to call you a wop, having been told that. Is it any better if I just call you a damn Italian? The racial bias of certain words SHOULD be a joke because it disarms the harm they caused when used in a friendly way, rather than intending insult.
*sigh*
My definitions are just as arbitrary as yours, or anyone else's, I just stated what mine were. The definitions were intended to pick out different aspects of language issue in a USEFUL manner, to explain my thinking. You were and are free to disagree with them, they were in no way used to clip your wings as described. I disagreed with you so I explained how I framed the issues and my thinking on each relative to your own thoughts.
I do not think you have behaved well here (I know, I know, vice-versa), you say I'm a "smart-alec", that I'm rude, obnoxious and should cease behaving like a prick. You claim such low things and bring them up every post. And yet take wounded pride in being told to relax or that you were rather fast and loose with the word "prejudice". It is not showing consistency.
@Guitardian
I agree with what you've said interleaved between the unpleasantness (ours, not yours). Sorry I haven't responded.
My one contribution to this discussion (that may follow) will be that if you want to consider swearwords as having a cultural heritage that can/should be overcome then you should think the same towards racist terms. I cannot see a logical position for the former that would not follow through on the latter.
But as you've noted, context is a much better way of looking at words and offence. "finger" is not offensive, "I will finger your mum" is offensive; context=magic.
My definitions are just as arbitrary as yours, or anyone else's, I just stated what mine were.
Definitions are not arbitrary. You either do not know what definition means, or what arbitrary means. Or perhaps you are you some definition of arbitrary (or definition) of your own invention, and waiting to tell us what you actually mean later.
The definitions were intended to pick out different aspects of language issue in a USEFUL manner, to explain my thinking. You were and are free to disagree with them, they were in no way used to clip your wings as described. I disagreed with you so I explained how I framed the issues and my thinking on each relative to your own thoughts.
If you are going to use alternative definitions for common terms, then you need to present those definitions up front. Presenting alternative definitions after the fact smacks of backpedalling to save a worthless argument rather than admit an error. It's not useful, it's just scrambling to cover up the fact that you have no actual argument, and are only posting to give an excuse for making snide, trolling comments.
I do not think you have behaved well here (I know, I know, vice-versa), you say I'm a "smart-alec", that I'm rude, obnoxious and should cease behaving like a prick. You claim such low things and bring them up every post. And yet take wounded pride in being told to relax or that you were rather fast and loose with the word "prejudice". It is not showing consistency.
This is absolutely ridiculous. I am not "claiming" that you've done something, as if that were debatable. Your posts are right there, as is your admission that you are "opportunistic" and seek to make "sarcastic" and "acerbic" comments. That's practically the definition of a smart-alec. Whether it's (as you admit) seeking opportunities to engage in "sarcasm/acerbic" jibes at my expense, or sighing in exasperation because I just don't appreciate your "sense of humor," you do not have the right to come after me to demonstrate how smart you think you are at my expense. You do not have the right to be offended that I am standing up for myself and pointing out that you have been a jerk in this thread since your first post, and you've admitted it.
No one gives a rat's ass how offended you are at being called out for your own, admitted anti-social behavior. That is literally no different than a criminal taking offense at being arrested. And before you think to accuse me of playing the cop when no one invited me to, try to remember that it is you who has admitted to having an opportunistic sense of humor based on saying nasty things to other people, and I am the one who is being attacked here, not you.
If you were any kind of man, you'd just apologize and be done with it, but no, you have to bloviate and take mock offense at the audacity of someone actually pointing out to you that sniping with opportunistically with sarcastic, acerbic comments is actually obnoxious and rude.
It really depends on who you're playing against and where. If you're playing with your mates and you usually curse around them then its fine, unless you're store asks for players to maintain a level of kid friendlyness.
But when you're playing against someone who you don't usually play (like in a tournament) I'd say its best to gauge the waters and see if their comfortable with it. Nowadays cursing is used almost like a colloquialism especially in younger groups, and could almost be an ice breaker and help ease into casual conversation and banter during the game.
Of course if you don't swear or are offended by swearing then don't and if your opponent does and its making you uncomfortable then just politely ask them to tone it down, if they make a big deal of it then you've got a donkey cave on your hands and just play the game out and move on. Although if their being intentionally derogatory towards you or for friends (for anything; age, race, sex or even cause they just don't like you) if its a friendly i'd just pack up and play someone else. Its not worth my time to be insulted just so i can play with my toy soldiers.
Back on topic, I voted for "Swearing is ALWAYS appropriate! f***sh**cu**balls!"
Really it's just words, those tight-assed people who complain about swearing need to stop bitching and grow a sense of humor, and also pull the stickbomb out their sh***er.
Now, racial slurs are a whole different affair. I agree that between friends there's nothing wrong with using them as a joke and as a way to take the 'credibility' out of them. However, with the pale skin I am cursed# with, I wouldn't say "N*****!!!!" in a room full of black people. Never been stupid enough to do it yet, never will. I prefer my balls under my c*** just like they are, thank you very much.
#(I live in the north and I've lived in neighborhoods with a predominantly black populace for most of my life, so I personally have always wished my Cuban blood would show more than it does; I'd much rather be visibly identifiable as Latino than as White. No doubt if I lived in like Alabama, I might have a different opinion.)
It depends on who and where I am playing. With friends in private I'm fine for people to swear like a sailor, but when its against an unknown opponent or in a public place I tone down the language.
It indicates my thoughts (More clear indications of of the manner in which you say something is key on the internet, see the "damn italian " above? Perfect example), I was exasperated by what I see as a dislike of engaging in points of discussion and more interest in insulting me, the manner of discussion or taking offence.
I chose to say I was explaining what I saw as different facets of the arguments - Are they useful facets? If they are then surely bringing them out is more important than the words used for them... If I'm honest, I chose to frame them in so loose a manner as "my opinions, definitions purely to aid the argument" so there was easier opportunity to engage in discussion if you wanted it. If you want cast-iron definitions, Vulgarity and swearing are not the same thing and you were wrong to lump them together in a 1-to-1 relationship, all swearing is vulgarity but not all vulgarity is swearing and that is why I never thought to define them. So to explain again, I was being nice - I thought that your points perhaps had relevance to vulgarity as a whole but not swearing - so pulled out the separate issues so you could engage how you wished with the different aspects laid clear... I did it in a manner so you didn't have to lose face, you COULD have said that you were after one of the things that I had defined (or some mix of the two) and that I had created a problem for myself by having the wrong ideas for definitions. You didn't, you refused to discuss it.
You'll probably just hate this, the above paragraph is going to be taken badly if you want it to be. I have been trying to explain the basis for opinions and the reasons for my thinking for a while now, if you want to see condescension in that you will ("pah, he's talking down to me", "that isn't what I thought so it's changing the topic" etc...) if you want to engage on the points you can do that as well.
Spoiler:
Just to show that I'm not picking things out of thin air
Swear: Noun 1. swearing - profane or obscene expression usually of surprise or anger; "expletives were deleted" curse, curse word, expletive, oath, swearword, cuss
Vulgarity:–adjective 1. characterized by ignorance of or lack of good breeding or taste: vulgar ostentation. 2. indecent; obscene; lewd: a vulgar work; a vulgar gesture. 3. crude; coarse; unrefined: a vulgar peasant. 4. of, pertaining to, or constituting the ordinary people in a society: the vulgar masses. 5. current; popular; common: a vulgar success; vulgar beliefs. 6. spoken by, or being in the language spoken by, the people generally; vernacular: vulgar tongue. 7. lacking in distinction, aesthetic value, or charm; banal; ordinary: a vulgar painting.
I mean a tournamnet is like an tournament. You have to respect surrondings and keep the energy instead of getting pissed of and curse. But in a freindly game is fine. Also as long the kid isnt younger then 10 I dont mined cursing.
I try not to around kids, but it's pretty much reflex at this point. If I roll snake eyes on my Shokk Attack gun, I'm going to swear, and if I roll double sixes I'm going to swear and laugh. The best I can hope for is to notice the kids and change it mid-word.
I don't mind cursing if its done 1) in humour and failing that 2) it's warranted. (6th 1 in a row or something..) but if people are 'efffing and blinding' every 3rd word that annoys me unless its done for humous effect (fr ted for example!)
from what little game i have played......
i do swear when my opponent swear, infact one of my latest game is full of swearing due to the RNG (random number god)
to keep in going the other person favour ( a lot, like say missing 90% of my saves)
I'm a Christian and don't swear and I prefer it if my opponent doesn't, but he is his own person and I don't have the right to tell him not to unless we are playing at my house. House Rule: please try to curb your profanity.
Now it really depends. Around my Really good 40k friends in the kitchen, we all cuss, every word in the book. Heck when I roll ones, I get on my knees and cry "Why have you forsaken me, Gygax!" and the fake cry for about 5 seconds. I roll alot of ones, so this usually takes a while. In the FLGS, ofcourse you only use Damn, piss, crap, and Warhammer online because there are little kids(and more importantly, the kid's mom) within earshot.
Within a level of reason. Nothing little billy everychild isn't going to hear somewhere on standard cable during daylight hours. Which is close to the exact policy that the local GW runs. They' re a bit more strict. Me being a foul mouthed rifle slung son of a sailor... I've managed to adjust to ranting long lines of swear words in alternative languages, such as chinese.
I swear like a sailor when I do almost anything but I do try not to swear around younger kids but if you use the local FLGs or GW as a baby sitting servirce dont be surprised when your kids come home with some new language skillz
Kids get plenty of of language skills on the playground. They dont need us to learn anything new. It's their parents you have to worry about offending, not the kids themselves, they already have caca mouth by 2nd grade. Parents just like an excuse to bitch and leave the store because they want to go to Carsons or BedBathandBeyond next door or something and don't want to wait around on a stupid game. Swearing around them is a no-no because it gives them that excuse. The kids don't care.
I and my friends feel free to use them whenever were playing privately. If we are at a gameshop and there are no kids around we'll still use them too.
Case and point, I was talking with someone about modeling a dread skull****ing a wraithlord last time. It was funny but we wouldn't say that in front of kids.
I drop FETH! more than our other four letter friend. I curse under my breath, but not around adults (I am 15, bet you didn't guess THAT Dakkadakka). I try to give everyone the same amount of respect. But if I am with friends, I usually swear a bit more. "S*n of a b*tch" is about the worse I will go. Other than that, Damn and its many variations are what I commonly use. And I don't swear around the young ones or the old ones.
I'm an engineer, so curse like a trooper anyway. I try to tame my language around kids, but it doesn't always work.
Hell, my Mum has always cursed around me and it's not hampered my development, any, so I don't see why people make a big deal about it.
i mainly say KAK witch is dutch for gak but much more excepted. but as me and my GF work with little childeren we dont swear a lot. but after a few drinks and whe are watching a fight (doesnt mather what sports hell even WWE) there is a lot of swearing. but almost never around little kids
I swear occasionally when something really unlucky happens to me, like when my opponent passed 6 5+ invuls on his termies. But seriously, most 12 yr old + kids say much worse things more often. I heard a 13 yr old in my store say 'It's not ap2, I get my av save you fething dumbshit'
If they are below 14, then I dont curse, very inpolite and my LFGS has a VERY strict policy. Me and friends mutter crap and damn at our respective houses though but ive heard some... odities here and there, it honestly depends how much you just lost, and how much that big muscly guy in the back bet on you winning.....
yesterday i lost 2 matches in a bloodbowl tournament trough back dies rolls. i even had too give up so my Ogres didnt die at that time i had 2 standing and the other 11 players on my team where ko'd or seriously injured. at one time i had only one ogre standing and a snotling down. i never sweared becuase a childerens news crew was standing only 15 feet away. on the ride back i currsed a lot come on 15 one's in a row thats freaking imposible!!!!
Watch it around the kids, but in my group we will curse like sailors when things don't go our way. We have all known each other for 15-25 years, so we are all used to giving each other crap.
I've picked up some pretty foul-mouthed tendencies at university and @$&% like a @$&%er quite casually. While this is quite normal in my circle of friends and indeed most people I know, you have to be careful playing with unfamiliar people who are a) young or b) sheltered to the extent that they are so not used to bad language that they mistake your jovial blue banter for anger directed at them.
Casual/humorous swearing, fine. Angry or vehement swearers are intimidating and unpleasant. But people who get angry playing games aren't fun to play against, swearing or not.
my store manager doesn't give a gak if theres no kids in the store, like after i demolished him 3 games in a row (traitor guard v guard) i could have sworn he was swearing continously for 5 minutes
Skalk Bloodaxe wrote:Profanity is a sign of poor sportsmanship and low breeding.
I assume that last bit was a joke, because swearing is not a sign of 'low breeding' at all, just because someone doesn't swear doesn't mean they're automatically better than you. It's pretty close-minded to think like that and you'd find yourself on the end of more than a few swear words if you said it to someone's face.
Anywho, I swear if there's no kids, and even if there aren't it's still in moderation. If every second word is a swear word then it gets quite annoying in extended games, but if something goes wrong or you forgot something in one of the phases then a swear word is usually what sums up how you feel about it, but it's nothing like a volley of them.
I find it quite fun if i've managed to do enough to make my opponent stare at his army on his next turn for about a minute before just muttering 's***...', smiling and facepalming at the situation.
Really, in the right adult company, a swear word becomes just another word that's thrown around a few times during the night and nobody cares unless you start off on needless profanity-filled diatribes. If it's the odd one during a particularly bad moment in the game then fine, if you're having a terrible game I even expect it, similarly with jokes.
gak off bloodaxe
low breeding?
Im a fething cambridge honours student and i swear all the time
they're just words to help people let off steam and i mean seriously, sometimes in a game when something goes horribly wrong or amazingly hilarious who cares if you sprout a few curses?
Its not poor sportsmanship either as long as people aren't genuinely angry
so once again, feth YOU close-minded stuck up piece of gak
Skalk Bloodaxe wrote:Profanity is a sign of poor sportsmanship and low breeding.
I assume that last bit was a joke, because swearing is not a sign of 'low breeding' at all, just because someone doesn't swear doesn't mean they're automatically better than you. It's pretty close-minded to think like that and you'd find yourself on the end of more than a few swear words if you said it to someone's face.
Anywho, I swear if there's no kids, and even if there aren't it's still in moderation. If every second word is a swear word then it gets quite annoying in extended games, but if something goes wrong or you forgot something in one of the phases then a swear word is usually what sums up how you feel about it, but it's nothing like a volley of them.
I find it quite fun if i've managed to do enough to make my opponent stare at his army on his next turn for about a minute before just muttering 's***...', smiling and facepalming at the situation.
Really, in the right adult company, a swear word becomes just another word that's thrown around a few times during the night and nobody cares unless you start off on needless profanity-filled diatribes. If it's the odd one during a particularly bad moment in the game then fine, if you're having a terrible game I even expect it, similarly with jokes.
QFT
plus there is something called gilles de lattourette and about swearing it can be fun as ong as you do it like this:
YOUR MOTHER IS A *** ING *** LORAMIXUM *** AGMINUM VENIUM *** TRAGOULA *** HIPPOPATOMUS *** REPUBLICAN *** ING DANIEL RADCLIFFE *** WITH A BUCKET OF *** IN A CASTLE FAR AWAY WHERE NO ONE CAN HEAR YOU *** SOUP *** WITH A BUCKET OF *** MICKEY MOUSE *** AND A STICK OF DYNOMITE *** MAGICAL *** ALAKAZAAM!
Besides that lastest "(rather amusing video) contribution, it would seem as though, as usual, people have become offended and are throwing inflammatory remarks against a person who deliberately or accidentally insulted everyone. So, might we get back to the gist of the topic without going all haters gonna hate?
If its just like you and your mate have a friendly game then its perfectly fine its just that you should'nt do it with young kids around.
I know some kid whos about 7 and he swears ALOT because of other people swearing around him.
monkey see monkey do. right? i think we can conclude:
cursing is acceptable as long as its only a few words and not around kids. if your opponent is offended by it he should say something and you should quite.
Creative swearing can be fun in and of itself, but by default swearing should be at the minimum level acceptable in the group. And kids shouldn't be swearing, it's like sex - fantastic but they have to wait until they're older .
Although I suppose it can be difficult for the more puritanical person to announce that they don't like the swearing... *shrug* I'm not that person so I can't say that I'd know.
true but i hope no one is afriad too tell there opponnent that there swearing is irritating. i once had it at a tournament and i said too my opponent would you please stop swearing every 5 words?
he than went on that i wasnt the one holding the tournament (a GT) bla bla bla. all i did was stand up showed him my ourider shirt and told him too leave the tournament. i hate to be hard but i just couldnt let him play on calling me name and using terible illnisses as too state how his ermy was doeing
Swearing & complaining: It's a bit like being noisy at stupid times in shared accommodation. Sure, doing it makes you a prick but often complaining about it makes people feel like jerks.
I think it would be better if people mentioned it but I think most people would feel awkward doing so.
outriders are a group of voluteers (picked out by GW) that help run event like games day. its a blue polo with white sleves and a space wolf badge on the right arm.
and i think its akward too tell somebody off on cursing because in the current world situasion you can get killed over a stupid drawing. i think the world is beoming more asocial and peopel are afraid too say anything about it
This is why i don't like playing with children.
A) half the time they don't even play properly
b) you swear around them and their parents have a ragegasm at you
c) How many times has some little brat picked up my model and broken it / bumped the GD table?!?!
Keep your damn kids at home, this is a beer & pretzels game!
Mukkin'About wrote:This is why i don't like playing with children.
A) half the time they don't even play properly
b) you swear around them and their parents have a ragegasm at you
c) How many times has some little brat picked up my model and broken it / bumped the GD table?!?!
Keep your damn kids at home, this is a beer & pretzels game!
Can say i've never had to deal with 'B)' (thankfully), but A) and C) are horrible to deal with. If a kid isn't allowed his ultramarines blue land raider that looked like he just tipped several pots of the paint over it and did a half-arsed white 'U' on every flat surface he could find, then he has a strop and ultimately gets his way, "Okay, have you got a 500pts list?" "Ye, it's my blue tank, my teminanators, my drednott and my 5 space mans" "Um, that isn't a legal list" "Yes it is! i useded it before!!! you just don't want to lose!" "No, it's an illegal army, want me to help build a legal one?" "NO I WANT TO USE MY ARMY!" At this point everyone is staring at the 17 year old that made the 11 year old cry and you either have to make up an excuse to leave or play him anyway.
C) is also annoying. You can't tell them to put it down because their parents are there staring at you with eyes that say "Try telling my kid to stop it; I dare ya.". I've had to quickly mark the spot where the model used to be many a time, as otherwise it ends up in the middle of the board and the kid knocks down the rest of your squad with a well placed arm sweep of precision carelessness. The worst one was where my terminators are at the side, waiting to deepstrike, a kid walks up to them and start poking them and picking them up, and neither he nor his parents wanted to make their presence known. It was only after my opponent pointed out the kid next to me that I relaised. I turned around quickly and went to pick up the other models before something happened; scared him by my arm appearing out of nowhere; he dropped the terminator, it bounced, snapped a bit, then he bloody trod on it as he waddled away. What do his parents do? IGNORE IT!
I had to pick up the remnants of my terminator (some pieces had come off and the trophy racks were bent and snapped, but otherwise he wasn't too damaged thankfully, as it was (as per usual) my favourite one) and watch them leave the store as if nothing had happened.
Mukkin'About wrote:This is why i don't like playing with children.
A) half the time they don't even play properly
b) you swear around them and their parents have a ragegasm at you
c) How many times has some little brat picked up my model and broken it / bumped the GD table?!?!
Keep your damn kids at home, this is a beer & pretzels game!
Can say i've never had to deal with 'B)' (thankfully), but A) and C) are horrible to deal with. If a kid isn't allowed his ultramarines blue land raider that looked like he just tipped several pots of the paint over it and did a half-arsed white 'U' on every flat surface he could find, then he has a strop and ultimately gets his way, "Okay, have you got a 500pts list?" "Ye, it's my blue tank, my teminanators, my drednott and my 5 space mans" "Um, that isn't a legal list" "Yes it is! i useded it before!!! you just don't want to lose!" "No, it's an illegal army, want me to help build a legal one?" "NO I WANT TO USE MY ARMY!" At this point everyone is staring at the 17 year old that made the 11 year old cry and you either have to make up an excuse to leave or play him anyway.
C) is also annoying. You can't tell them to put it down because their parents are there staring at you with eyes that say "Try telling my kid to stop it; I dare ya.". I've had to quickly mark the spot where the model used to be many a time, as otherwise it ends up in the middle of the board and the kid knocks down the rest of your squad with a well placed arm sweep of precision carelessness. The worst one was where my terminators are at the side, waiting to deepstrike, a kid walks up to them and start poking them and picking them up, and neither he nor his parents wanted to make their presence known. It was only after my opponent pointed out the kid next to me that I relaised. I turned around quickly and went to pick up the other models before something happened; scared him by my arm appearing out of nowhere; he dropped the terminator, it bounced, snapped a bit, then he bloody trod on it as he waddled away. What do his parents do? IGNORE IT!
I had to pick up the remnants of my terminator (some pieces had come off and the trophy racks were bent and snapped, but otherwise he wasn't too damaged thankfully, as it was (as per usual) my favourite one) and watch them leave the store as if nothing had happened.
it can be something dutch but the parents make there kids ask before they pick up on of my models. usuly i let the hold a not on the board model but always say be carefull and i sayit double with my dark eldar. plus i have a demo army close by. its the foreigners that make me pissed those guys just point and laugh one even had the balls too drop one of my figs and then stomp on it. now i am not an agresive persoon but i put his lights out (amature boxer 42 matches played - 18 won - 4 draws - 20 losses - 16 KO's). but i never have problems with dutch kids
For most Americans, myself included, swearing is second nature. When I'm relaxed I drop bombs like Shells coming out of WAZDAKKA's DakkaKannon with a field of lootas blastin behind him. However, as soon as anyone says, hey, please watch your language, I will do so. At my own house with friends, they can suck it up, they should know me, new players, I'll give them warnings about my mouth and they'll have to deal with it. If a mrs. is around I'll try to be polite, if kids are around I try to watch my mouth, ultimately I say you can feel if swearing is approprate or not and don't be an ass. If you are an ass be prepaed for retaliation in fold, either from the tournament bosses, or from the offended and other players should always back-up the offended. People take politeness for granted until someone breaks their line, so we should always respect others in turn to have ours respected.
-Runna the F*n Warboss
I refuse to play kids simply because I want to spend time with adults when I go to a club of flgs. If I wanted to spend time with kids I would stay at home and teach them to play while watching them do things like and I quote 'look daddy i can pull his (sicarius) head off and his arms' As it was Sicarius I laughed (he didn't noticed over how awesome he was) but the point stands kids stay at home and keep your hands off my models.
Cursing can be either funny, or insulting, depending on the context. As long as it is all for fun, and there is noone around that would get offended, then curse away.
If the words are being thrown around in an attempt to be insulting or hurtful, then I would just pack my stuff up and be done with it.
I usually curse only in the middle of a game or if something drastic happens (table tips on me cause of some kid kicking the prop out).
But, if parents get offended, they should ask you politely to stop, not ragederp at you for a few measly words. After all, you've gone through a lot more with kids instore than a few words.
I've had, from kids (in no particular order) Stolen models (metal scouts with shotguns/NSR and also my old 2nd edition marines). Kids spraying open pots of paint all over the table, nicked glue, paint, and brushes (I buy better quality brushes) and kids refusing to play with a legitimate army list because it's *theirs*.
I've lost count of the number of times I've pointed out disparities in troops/heavy support.
yes i know what you mean this kid once began trowing over tables because we didnt let him competen in our tournee a battle of the clubs qualivier. he had an army of 400 points we played 2250 points and the parents yelling at us agh. i still get mad if i think about them.... destroyed my dragon, sorceress and all in the end we kicked them out and let them pay for the damage 422,50 euro's.
I tend to let out the ocasional swear every now and then during a game, but when I'm playing against someone I just met I tone it down a bit. Most of the guys that I play however are either part of one of two camps: those of the excessively friendly type, rapped in cotton wool, or the guys who you can have a few dirty jokes with over the hair style of a certain Blood Angels Commander, so it really depends on who I'm up against.
I treat warhammer at a store like a casino. I stay quiet, try to concentrate on the other player and the game. If I do swear it's while I'm outside smokin a cancer stick, but once i go back in the store it's game on, and hush hush.
alot of people dont realise that your opponent can tell what your overall plan was depending on how much you react to things that happen during the game.
I said not when kids are around, unless they touch my models without asking... Then they'll probably hear something like: "Get your fething hands off my fething models, they're older and worth more than you!"
well thats hars dude. i only say please dont touch the models. or with teens why dont you go smoke some weed ( i dont encourage it but the stonners wil do it anyway). plus there is a coffee shop across the street. funny thing is you can buy there weed but no coffee strange?
I avoid cursing around kids and women. There is just something about cursing around them that makes me feel like my gradfather is standing behind me thumping the back of my head every time I do. I also avoid curssing during games in general because it tends to mess with the other player. If I get ROFLstomped, I just smile and deal with things... and is messes my opponent up. They are expecting the flurry of words to pour out of my mouth and they get... a smile. I played one kid, lost, and at the end smiled, shook his hand, and said "It's late have a safe trip home ((It was around 2AM)). The due grabbed his things and ran out of the store thinking I was going to chase him home. Do I occasionally loose my cool and let something slip, yes, but as a whole I think curse words are like salt and pepper. Use a few and it can add to the flavor. Add too much and it's just trash. ((As always.. my spelling and grammar are trash too..*sigh*))
what yall sayin' pimp man i just husstle with my boyz out in da ally poppin' some dice man. so dont you been dissing and start ass kissing FOOL.
allright that was ment as a joke.
but your right. 1000$ armies your kidding me right?
In friendly games it's OK but otherwise I believe its just rude. Sure it depends on how you do it, if it's a part of your everyday language and not a testimony of how angry you are, thats OK by me. But if you curse because you can't restrain your anger that is not OK, then the game just gets boring. But I guess that has more to do with being nice rather than cursing...
Me and my regular opponent swear like bloomin' crazy. The game club I go to is a place of disturbing people.
which suits me just fine
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Mukkin'About wrote:This is why i don't like playing with children.
A) half the time they don't even play properly
b) you swear around them and their parents have a ragegasm at you
c) How many times has some little brat picked up my model and broken it / bumped the GD table?!?!
Keep your damn kids at home, this is a beer & pretzels game!
Amen. I'd rather play with 13-19 year olds (me being 15). We may be immature, but we speak of things that could scare some people, especially little kids. lol
I truly feel that cursing can be have a direct correlation to ones IQ. If someone cannot express themselves properly please don't do it in front of children. I hate hearing kids cussing and I feel that they look up to the older cool guys that play warhammer at the game shop wishing that their pokemon cards were warhammer models, and its a shame when a "cool" guy loses his temper and gives it a reputation. Besides the kids parents aren't far behind the kids and they will notice this too and not want to get their kids the game because of the people who play it.
I don't care about casual swearing when I am playing against another adult but I think children and teenagers should keep it amongst themselves. I remember swearing when I was younger but it was amongst my friends, not around adults.
A guideline to follow would be:
If your parents buy your models or drive you to the game store, please be respectful and please keep it clean.
If you work for a living and pay your own bills, I could care less how you talk.
Hytanthas wrote:I truly feel that cursing can be have a direct correlation to ones IQ. If someone cannot express themselves properly please don't do it in front of children. I hate hearing kids cussing and I feel that they look up to the older cool guys that play warhammer at the game shop wishing that their pokemon cards were warhammer models, and its a shame when a "cool" guy loses his temper and gives it a reputation. Besides the kids parents aren't far behind the kids and they will notice this too and not want to get their kids the game because of the people who play it.
Cursing has nothing to do with IQ. "Properly" is subjective. So it's okay for a kid to play game where the "heroes" butcher space nuns, but saying "damn" is too much?
Where is the option to curse MORE if there are kids around?
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Avatar 720 wrote:C) is also annoying. You can't tell them to put it down because their parents are there staring at you with eyes that say "Try telling my kid to stop it; I dare ya.". I've had to quickly mark the spot where the model used to be many a time, as otherwise it ends up in the middle of the board and the kid knocks down the rest of your squad with a well placed arm sweep of precision carelessness. The worst one was where my terminators are at the side, waiting to deepstrike, a kid walks up to them and start poking them and picking them up, and neither he nor his parents wanted to make their presence known. It was only after my opponent pointed out the kid next to me that I relaised. I turned around quickly and went to pick up the other models before something happened; scared him by my arm appearing out of nowhere; he dropped the terminator, it bounced, snapped a bit, then he bloody trod on it as he waddled away. What do his parents do? IGNORE IT!
I had to pick up the remnants of my terminator (some pieces had come off and the trophy racks were bent and snapped, but otherwise he wasn't too damaged thankfully, as it was (as per usual) my favourite one) and watch them leave the store as if nothing had happened.
I think you are perfectly within your rights to tell the kid not to touch your property, and the game store manager should side with you unless he's a royal piece of crap.
And in the case of damage, you'd also be perfectly within your rights to demand they pay for it.
I certainly would.
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Samus_aran115 wrote:Eh, I never really care. When white people use the "N-word" is where I draw the line though. I hear that freakin' everywhere when I play in my FLGS. It's a real shame. They have no idea what the hell they're talking about, or what it means, but they'll use it without restraint, just because there are none of those people around.
What do you mean, "those people"? Racist!
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Aylos wrote:meh i am really not bothered by swearing, dont rly do much myself but like at my store nearly no1 rly swears but when they do no1 cares cos every1 knows eachother well so were not gonna get all up in faces bout cussing
Hytanthas wrote:I truly feel that cursing can be have a direct correlation to ones IQ. If someone cannot express themselves properly please don't do it in front of children. I hate hearing kids cussing and I feel that they look up to the older cool guys that play warhammer at the game shop wishing that their pokemon cards were warhammer models, and its a shame when a "cool" guy loses his temper and gives it a reputation. Besides the kids parents aren't far behind the kids and they will notice this too and not want to get their kids the game because of the people who play it.
Cursing has nothing to do with IQ. "Properly" is subjective. So it's okay for a kid to play game where the "heroes" butcher space nuns, but saying "damn" is too much?
I don't think that swearing should be rationalized. If things start to get rationalized then everything gets blown out of proportion. A line needs to be drawn.
And anyone who uses the F-word every other word is definitely showing a lack of vocabulary (a reflection of ones intelligence).Language is a powerful tool and is subjective to culture damn isn't a cuss word to some people (nor is the F-bomb at that). But at a public gaming environment a respectful demeanor should be maintained.
Properly is a subjective word and everyone expresses themselves differently but anger needs to be expressed in a healthy way that doesn't offend those around them.
I usually don't and I don't mind much if others do. Of course there was that one time when my Black Orc general had suffered 4 wounds by a stupid no-armor save spell on turn one, and I had to roll 4 dice for my 4+ ward save and failed each and every one of them... Dead General on turn one... oh yeah.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:I swear all the time, of course I am cheating because I've slowly but surely adapted all my swears pretty much to fantasy equivilents.
The odd proper swear slips out now or then, but around 95% of the time I use, feth, Gak, Hells Teeth, barsteward, muppet, frell, some made up nonsense or feck. (Oh and I know the last is in effect an actual swear word, but most English folks I know don't pick up on it.)
As to my thoughts on other folks swearing, doesn't bother me unless the kids are around.
I will actually work on doing that.
Not with kids around. But even then mildly is ok. 'Oh i rolled a 1 damn/darn/gak" and " THOSE DICE ARE LOADED YOU COCK SUCKING CHEATER!"
ironlord wrote:I try not to swear, my area is really bad for swearing so all the kids are really bad with their swearing, but I try too avoid swearing if I can because I am such a moral citizen.
Seriously I hate hearing kids swearing, it seems like such a loss of innocence that I really don't like too see in the youth of tomorrow.
so its ok that adults have such a loss of innoocence??
Swearing is ok if everyone is like minded about it. I voted not around kids because that's just not cool, but in most other circumstances its fine and doesn't bother me.
I can swear quite a lot... I mean all the fing time but then again If there's kids around I try to hold it back, if my oponant says something about it I try to hold it back, if someone in the street has the guts to step up and tell me that my swearing is offending him, then fiar enough he or she has shown the guts to talk to a reasonably large man about his gutter mouth rather than moan about me behind my back, the latter usualy brings on more inventive and regular swearing...
basicaly swearing isn't bad, it isn't dumb but it's not clever either, theres a time and place
Automatically Appended Next Post: It's quite telling infact that most people who don't swear believe that swearing is a sign of poor language skills and a low intelect however as Stephen Fry has said "It just so happens that the opposite is true and swearing is just another vocabulary, infact the brightest most intelectual people I know swear more than I do. BTW I'm talking people with doctorates, engineers Nurses and doctors here so pretty high on the social ladder. It a bit like middle class people in the UK won't call the toilet a toilet, bog, crapper or anyother cuolocialisum for it, they call it the water closet or bathroom whereas the lower classes and upper classes call it any and or all of the aforementioned.
spent 4 years in the military, and 4 years before that playing highschool Basketball, so i can be a pretty big swearer(there's a DVD in my house where you can hear, on the videocamera in the back of the bleachers, me dropping a heinous F-bomb after a poor call, and getting a technical. this game was at Trinity Christian ) but not with kids around, this means almost never these days with my daughter running around in the house.
I'd really like to know how the distribution of "Not in front of kids" over all countries looks like. This whole "cursing is evil" thing looks like an American thing to me.
I fething love swearing. That gak's like bread and butter to me. And bollocks with kids being about, I'm the guy they'll learn their fething swear words from.
An accurate representation of my position, but I also posted this to see the swear filter at work. Good times!
I curse when i roll really bad, and get penetrated by a lascannon, assaulted by a massive squad, big things like that really, so not exactly excessively, like, ohhhh -----...... i tihnk that's exceptable everywhere, however when kids around ohh bannana's is good.
I swear all the time, but always in a strange language. Thai, Tagalog or Russian mostly.....it helps me clear my head when I'm getting frustrated and it has the added bonus of very rarely, if ever, upsetting any young 'uns who may be in the area.....
I don't mind when its really necessary, like rolling four 1's for 4 armor saves with your terminators... : P I don't appreciate over use though..... One of my friends ended up naming his Tau battle suit commander, "Captian F*** Face" lol.
I find it more "acceptable" in friendly games. When in a store I like to keep respectful just in case you get that mother and her child who want to see what your doing.
I strongly dislike cursing during games, adult people& young people can express themself in a normal maner without having to sound like a drunken sailor.
For me I try not to curse around the children, I don't want to be the one to ruin their day ... or anyone elses incase the kid learns a new word O.o ... now outside of that ... if I am confortable with who I am gaming with I am boud to curse with each bad dice roll ... which is usually a lot.
I am rather surprised there isn't something between "don't mind" and "hate". I prefer people not to swear in general, it doesn't mean I hate it, but I clearly do mind it.
Its annoying if you swear all the time, but snake eyes for the sag and or a missed shot blowing up your own vehicle, taking a big buch 'a boys with it... then i will curse and swear you m0T#€rFvv(King piles of $#!t!
When your fully kitted out skaven warlord gets blasted off his bonebreaker by ogre maneaters in turn 2 THEN its most certanly acceptable. even if there are kids around.
You can curse all you want, it doesn't bother me one bit. But as for myself, I respect language and the proper use of it. What this means is that I feel a curse should be a powerful expression of one's feelings, so a good curse should be used only in times of great stress or shock.
So I don't swear around kids, I don't swear playing games, in fact if you knew me you would think I never uttered a curse at all... until that fateful day that you look up and see me running past you and shouting "@#$K!!!" in which case you would know that you better not ask questions and you better get off your ass and start running also. This is how one swears properly.
oadie wrote:No different than any other social setting. I personally have no problem with cursing. In fact, I do it a decent bit, myself... If I'm in a room full of kids, I hold my tongue. If I'm speaking to someone I want to make a good impression on, an authority figure, etc. then I wait for them to establish the precedent for acceptable speech.
Well put sir. I try to not cuss up a storm like the common rabble in a mixed gaming environment, and usually use it as a psychological weapon when necessary. Some people just drive you to it, and I say let loose. But all of the frething, frakking, non-swears are way more annoying and offense to the ear in general. It's like people who say "the n-word". By saying it that way you are making me say it to myself in my head, which makes you a double bastard. Just say what's on your mind as long as the consequences suit you.
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Terraformer wrote:...in fact if you knew me you would think I never uttered a curse at all... until that fateful day that you look up and see me running past you and shouting "@#$K!!!" in which case you would know that you better not ask questions and you better get off your ass and start running also.
Well obviously. Can't miss the ice cream truck now can we?
I'm a terrible human being with a horrific sense of humor and little tolerance for people who think bad language is something their 9 year old snowflake doesn't hear on a daily basis at school as soon as they're out of earshot of a teacher. I swear freely and openly (not as in, every sentence, but about as much as any other 25 year old amongst buddies) as do those I typically play with and couldn't care less about swearing from others as long as its not directed in anger towards another person.
I keep my swearing to minimum at the local stores, when kids are a very possible presence (I also support the store, and don't want to hurt their business in any way).
In private, in the local clubs, or when I'm only around other people my age, we all start swearing up a storm,but not with kids around.
I curse as often as I breathe, and often in wargaming it will be no different, but kids shouldn't start cussin' till their balls have dropped a tad. I also don't swear when I'm genuinely distressed at me losing the game somehow. That's bad form. Saying 'I'm gonna move this f-ing Land Raider over here so he can f**k your s**t up', I'd be fine with, it's characterful, but 'F**king hell!' after losing a Land Raider is simply losing control.
Cursing is inappropriate in any type of game setting, be it tabletop, rugby, football, tennis, etc. It shows the complete lack of sportsmanship of the people who do it.
I suppose if it is a private game between friends who knows each other and are joking around, fine. In a public setting, in a store, or in a tournament, absolutely not.
I'm okay with private swearing, but you really shouldn't go over the top, especially over a game. I do however swear when I roll the all fateful 1 on my Shokk attack misfire table .
@shadowseer
funny you should mention rugby as no one on my team curses escept one person the coach. but if you would ask anybody to define what a curse is you get alot of different explanations.
I was going to put not when kids are around, but then remembered that the person that swears the most where I go is 14. Literally, he can't go a sentance without inserting 'feth' or other examples of flowery language, so I ended up going for not minding.
Friendly play it is fine as long as kids aren't around, oddly I would say "Not at tournaments," points for sportsmanship and sometimes people come to watch, last thing I want the random general public that sees a tournament thinking is "Wow these are just a bunch of guys with facial hair that cuss a lot"
I swear a lot in a casual way but I'll reign it in if there are any young kids around, especially if I'm in a store or club or somewhere else that might get blamed for little timmy coming home with colourful new things in his vocabulary
I run a game night for 40K at a local hobby shop that has kids and adults coming and going. I developed a rule named after a guy who cusses occasionally where if you cuss, you lose 3 models out of one of your units immediately. Tends to reduce the cussing.
Like a lot of situations, cussing can be funny. But with the apparent wave of Tourette's that is sweeping the gaming community, it gets tiresome. If you're going to be vulgar, at least be funny. And if it doesn't work the first couple times, stop trying to be funny.
I try not to swear around the "kids" (not mine - the younger members of my club - whom by virtue simply of being half my age are still thought of as "those nice kids".).
Mainly because they blow me out of the water with their own. I used to be in the army, and I play with boilermakers and other tradies - but these guys talk like nuns compared to the kids.
I never play with kids around. And that's good because when I start having seriously bad luck I start to offend pretty much everything. Common targets includes:
-The Pope
-Cardinals
-Jesus
-God
-pretty much everything related to christianity
-Berlusconi
-Mussolini
-pretty much every right-wing politician
- ...also pretty much every left-wing politician
-every object or person having the misfortune of being around me...
The older you get, the more moronic you realize people do sound when adding in curses to their everyday speech and I'm atrocious myself.
As I can respect parents trying to raise their kids to have a good chance at success (and knowing how to speak and put sentences together well, and accurately express your true thoughts on matters is an invaluable tool), I try to avoid being a bad influence on children. At least in the states, we have FAR too many trying to sabotage a parents ability to raise children with discipline and positives things that will help them succeed for me to add to the mess by acting like my sailor speech should be tolerated at all times.
It's all the small stuff adding up that causes the big problems, so everytime we think something is "no big deal" it is just one brick in the building that IS a "big deal".
A bit much, I know, but I don't think people should be cursing up a storm about every one they roll when playing when kids are around.
Just depends on the company really. Among friends I let 'em have it. At a casual or tourney at a public venue, I may let one slip as the Dice Gods take a dump on me. And as a rule, I try very hard not to do it around the kids...it's just rude and I want to set a better example for them. Scream all you want on XboX Live, but in a game of 40K, we can choose to be more grown up about it.
I guess for me only in friendly games where I know the person, and when there aren't kids around (well, define kid haha).
I mean, the people I play with don't curse often but we jokingly do once in a while when one of us rolls really terribly in a almost guaranteed roll (like a 2+ to wound and we fail all like 8-9 rolls which as happened)
Censorship is silly. I have just as much right to swear as others have the right to be offended by it. I'm not a complete jerk that runs around my FLGS swearing at children and flipping them off mind you, but if I swear while there are kids around i'm not too concerned either.
A foul mouth, an uncontrolled "potty" mouth has no place in gaming or anything else! I have conceded tournament matches when my opponent could not control his mouth even after I have politely asked him to refrain from such vulgarity or vainity(taking the name of deity in vain). I have no need whatsoever for this in my life.
I have left cinemas, plays, etc. where I have paid good money when the vulgarity or vainity gets excessive in my book. I have given such events, where I can, scathing feedback for their inability to be verbally polite. If possible from foreknowledge, I do not watch DVDs if the reason for the rating is "whatever adjective" language; I just have no desire to hear it. I do not listen to any CDs and I do not ever go to a concert of someone that have a Parental Advisory attached to them or their music; what need I have for such filth?
If someone is creative with their verbal curses ("By my mother's camel's posterior" I have actually heard that one), I give them some latitude, but if they cannot express disappointment and happiness politely while I play them, I will ask for some consideration of their normal habits. If that person is unwilling to be polite after such a request, I call the game at that point, they get the lowest score possible for sportmanship I can give them if at a tournament and I make a formal complaint with the judges/referees. I just do not need such trash in my life.
In person, at work, at an event, simply where I am at, when persons suffer vainity of the mouth, I am in a habit of asking what did deity do to them for them to talk so. More often than not, WAY more often than not, they are confused by the question. I again ask what did deity do to them that they need to use the deity's name so rudely, crudely and downright filthily. Usually, people just give some excuse for their language at this point. I then ask if they really understand how terribly offensive this speech of theirs is to people around them. The overwhelming majority claim they have no idea how offensive it is or if it is in fact offensive. Boy, how has our societies have fallen in just the last fifty years or so.
So, no cursing please. I will not play you ever again if you cannot control your mouth.
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Lord Manimal wrote: Meh. The idea that words can be "bad" or "good" is giving them power. To suggest that words have power by themselves is to indicate a misguided belief in "majik"; using power words and all that. The equivalent of feck happens to have one of the most robust histories in all of worddom (My word!!!) and is a noun, verb, etc. all at the same time. The most versatile word in history! It can be good, bad, implied, shouted, whispered, emoted, communicated without sound (middle finger!) etc.
I have children that are aged 11, 9 and 4 and they've heard it all from their sailor dad; me! I don't give two donkey ****s what any ****ing body says. They're top of their class, brilliant students that, like myself, appreciate it as a form of expression, and, occasionally a well wordsmithed art form. I generally want to punch people in the face that think a word by itself is for some reason magical, or taboo. It's the emotion conveyed by the word. I can say "I'll see you later." with gritted teeth at the end of a game and have somebody worried about what I'll do later, vice saying "Feck this game. I rolled like a **** in a ***house on ****." and possibly make them laugh.
The idea of protecting the imaginary honor or sanctity of kids is an idea proposed by people that I presume probably don't talk to them about drugs or secks either, until little Jimmy comes home cracked out, with a prostitute on his arm cursing his mom and dad for not preparing him for the real world. lol
I will simply and politely say, based upon great experience, much education and a whole lot of training, that people who think like this are a serious part of the PROBLEM of our modern society. And then, far more often than not, these people wonder why our society has become such a cesspool. Duh!
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Savis wrote: I don't mind cursing as such. If you do it a couple of times during a game when you fail the critcial rolls it's no worries but I will view you in a lesser light if you use a curse word every other sentence. Also if youngsters do it "just to be cool" I will tell them off.
Folks, what is wrong with just a groan or a cheer?!? Seriously!!! Why does anyone have to curse other than to be absolutely crude and offensive? There is never a need to curse!
Of course you tell off youth for their abysmal behavior and language. You should also use the same level of reprimand, if not more firmly with an adult who definitely knows better!!
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Nerdegamer wrote: It all depends on who you are playing with. With friends and family who know you, let it fly in moderation, as long as there is an understanding of "No harm, no foul" between your competitors. With complete strangers, keep your swearing to a minimum, last thing you want to do is leave a lasting impression on your opponents that you are not a good sportsman.
Why? Seriously why? Why is there any difference with what people are around you? If they are human, do they not have the right to an unoffensive conversation with you around the gaming table no matter what their age, gender, what ever criteria, where ever you are?
Gailbraithe wrote:The entire concept of "profanity" is a relic of Victorian sensibilities, and is mostly an encoding of their class prejudices -- that's why words with a Germanic origin are "curse words," but Latin root words with the same meaning are "clean." It's a clash of the vulgar argot of British peasantry with the classic education of the upper class. And I have no fecking idea why we modern Americans are supposed to cling to these prejudices.
Ah, of course, how could we forget. The victorian working classes were renowned for their knowledge of northern European languages.
Do you have a problem with reading comprehension, or are you just incredibly ignorant of history? Your comment seems to indicate both that you completely misunderstood my comment, and that you don't have any understanding of the origins of the English language.
The vulgar argot of the British peasantry is full of Germanic root words, which is hardly surprising since the English language developed from Germanic languages. It has nothing to do with the working class having a knowledge of northern European languages -- its simply a fact that English is full of Germanic roots. It was the upper class that was educated and thus familiar with Latin and the romance languages. That's why "cock," with its strong Germanic roots, is a "dirty" word and "penis," which is Latin in origin, is "clean," even though the two words mean the exact same thing. What that means is that the more strongly one insists that "cock" is foul-language but that "penis" is acceptable, the more one is mindlessly embracing Victorian prejudices that were originally developed to further class consciousness in Victorian society. Likewise, "gak" is derived from the Middle Low German schite, while "feces" is Latinate. "feth" is clearly of Germanic origin, having the same general sound and meaning as the German "ficken," the Dutch "fokken" and the Swedish "fokka," while "intercourse" is, again, Latinate.
So again: When people complain about dirty words, they are engaging in utterly silly and ridiculous prejudices against working class British people of the 17th century. That's not just silly, it's actually stupid, and almost completely indefensible. It is the unthinking, uncritical act of people who make no effort to educate themselves, to understand history, and instead cling mindlessly to traditions they don't understand and whose purpose -- to create a sense of inferiority in working people and to artificially inflate the supposed moral character of the wealthy -- is actively malign.
In short: Complaining about swearing marks a person as both ignorant and prejudiced. You might as well insist that the white man is superior to the savage and unchristian black, and that men have a natural right to dominate weak and corruptible women. I mean hey, if you're going to embrace the prejudices of Victorians, why not go whole hog?
Harsh, but true.
Edited to Add: You'll note that this website has edited the content of my post to hide some of these dirty, dirty German origin words. And why? Because of mindlessness. Because of the unwillingness of this forum's operators to learn the history of their own language and to reject a class consciousness that insists that the working class is morally corrupt and "dirty." It's inane, and I have zero respect for people who think that using "clean" language is somehow more proper.
"Mindless" is your inane defense of offensive behavior that can, in fact, be linked to societies long before Victorian England. You sir, are the one that is historically ignorant here!
BTW Gailbraithe, YOU are the rude one in that entire exchange with Atre earlier. Atre was simply trying to explain to you, in a well educated fashion, why you were/are completely, totally and absolutely wrong in this matter. You are the one who started talking down to Atre, being demeaning to him, being every last negative thing you accused him of being, you were first and only one guilty of. I find such behavior all the time when people are defending what they did/do despite knowing full well that what they did was nothing but wrong. Gailbraithe, Atre simply tried to explain to you your error in the only context you supplied him. He tried valiantly, but thanks to your stone noggin', Atre failed gloriously.
Atre, howabout we visit Gailbraithe with some liquid Ivory or some other liquid dish soap of your choice and apply it to his mouth. Did wonders in the First Grade decades ago with my use of profanity!
I have now completed the nine full pages and the tenth part page of this thread. I am really "confused" about some peoples' attitudes. Why is it acceptable to profane your friends rather than strangers?!? Would not you want to be kindest to those whom you value the most (aka your friends)? Meanwhile most are recommending being their meanest to these people.
<<clipped>> It is, for practicing religionists of the Book, all about Commandment #3 if not simply treating your fellow human as best as you would like to be treated. You just do not swear, profane, or speak in any like manner. How is that so hard for so many of you to simply commit to NOT do it?
Also for the ones that feel the expression of lots of profanity is not a reflection of intelligence, let me say, "Sorry." now. Study after study over the last 90 years or so have repeatedly found that the profound use of profanity goes hand-in-hand with low scores on every measure that science has access to about intelligence including all forms of the Wechsler. Really people, folks here do not say this fact just to get you angry. Science has spoken. What I would like to see is for one of you angry people to present to us here one reputable study that says there is no connection between the two. That would be worth talking about and seeing how the people responsible measured their results. Yes, two of my degrees, among my five, are in psych.
I swear all the time, and am a horrible person. at 14 I don't see why you should not swear infront of kids, unless at them. look at dr. cox from scrubs, make him fat, 14, and 20percent more of an donkey-cave. BAMN me. I swear all the time in games, although I only play with my buds so..
the shrouded lord wrote: I swear all the time, and am a horrible person. at 14 I don't see why you should not swear infront of kids, unless at them. look at dr. cox from scrubs, make him fat, 14, and 20percent more of an donkey-cave. BAMN me. I swear all the time in games, although I only play with my buds so..
What I do not understand is the necessity for different standards of behavior.
You know: in front of women, in front of children, in front of clergymen, etc.
If one just keeps it polite and clean at all times, you are set no matter who is around.
The use of profanity, curse, expletive, obscenity, lewdness, blasphemy and the ilk & so forth is simply a behavioral choice that has consequences that are nothing but devolving.
Why start down the early part of this slippery slope, when recovery, the effort needed to reverse course, is so difficult when compared to never going down that way ever?
For gaming, for school, for life, I use groans, cheers, a downed head, an enthusiastic "Yes!" with a fist pump and so forth.
One can manage to express yourself quite clearly without a single piece of expletive and so forth.
I only tolerate it and do it myself in private settings with friends. In one of our houses, we swear up a storm, and devolve into cro-magnons as we flip our lids over stupid things.
In public though, at stores or when there's any kind of audience, I don't like it at all. I don't swear myself, and it embarrasses me when my opponents are doing it because it makes me look bad as well. People who can't control their vulgarities are contemptible.
I try to keep foul language to a minimum around kids. Even if they use the naughty words, keeping your own language clean gives you some form of imaginary moral high-ground. Who doesn't want to feel all superior and such?
As long as nobody is offended and it's not every second word that comes out of the player's mouth, I can tolerate it. I try to avoid cursing if possible though... to some extent. Changing how the swear word sounds or blocking off a swear word like this: is usually what I try to do instead.
@DouglasJB: I go to a selective English grammar school. If you don't already know, that means my peers and I are generally the most intelligent 2% in the country.
Hey, guess what? Apart from those of us who have been conditioned from an early age to look down on "profanities", we're as foul-mouthed as everyone else!
Unless you can show me substantial verifiable evidence, I still don't believe swearing is an indicator of low intelligence.
DouglasJB wrote: What I do not understand is the necessity for different standards of behavior.
... Because behaviours are context driven?
If one just keeps it polite and clean at all times, you are set no matter who is around.
But, and this is what you seem to have a problem grasping, swearing in a friendly context isn't impolite. Being polite boils down to showing regards to others in your actions. If you know you will not offend others by your word, then there is no harm in the use of words that would be otherwise potentially harmful.
The use of profanity, curse, expletive, obscenity, lewdness, blasphemy and the ilk & so forth is simply a behavioral choice that has consequences that are nothing but devolving.
Why? Socially, I have grown close to friends who have always attempted everything possible to push the limit of the tasteless, in matters of insults. These are socially succesful individuals, all hailing from one of the best scored private school from the country. Why does this language game we play should 'devolve' us?
I don't mind too much in most friendly and private games, however I'd prefer my opponent not cursing and if they do only when it'a warranted (dropping something on their foot, breaking a model, losing an important unit, etc.)
-Shrike- wrote: @DouglasJB: I go to a selective English grammar school. If you don't already know, that means my peers and I are generally the most intelligent 2% in the country.
Hey, guess what? Apart from those of us who have been conditioned from an early age to look down on "profanities", we're as foul-mouthed as everyone else!
Unless you can show me substantial verifiable evidence, I still don't believe swearing is an indicator of low intelligence.
You are as foul-mouthed as "everyone else" Shrike?
Really?
I think you would be shocked at how many Catholics and Mormons(Latter-day Saints) do not swear whatsoever in your own country, let alone such around the world!
And to be specific, I mean those who claim such a faith and practice it every day and attend church services regularly.
It is against the tenets of both of those faiths to curse.
So Shrike you evidently swear much more than a decent portion of everyone around you.
I knew people who went to schools, like what you describe, in Britain when I was but a youngster.
They did not "swear like sailors" unless two things had occurred:
1) their parents just did not care or were of a class that thought nothing of it;
&
2) the students made the active choice, each as an individual, to be foul mouthed.
Being foul-mouthed is not a natural state Shrike
Shrike your own national health service in conjunction with several universities there in Britain have done several studies that have replicated the original study.
Since you are such a bright boy, I will leave it up to you to look them up yourself, okay?
Then again, your decision to be foul-mouthed could be evidence that intelligence is more of a sphere concept like Howard Gardner pushes.
One can be academically brilliant but a total pisśant idiot when it comes to street/practical smarts.
I have not studied Gardner for years, but I still believe I have a handle on his theories.
So Shrike, you can be as foul-mouthed as you desire, but really, what does a foul mouth say about the quality of person you are?
Still, even in this day & age and even over there on your side of the Pond, quality means something.
DouglasJB wrote: What I do not understand is the necessity for different standards of behavior.
... Because behaviours are context driven?
Really?
And what context drives the idea that cursing is okay?
Has so much of the world really lost the handle on what being good and strong is all about?
DouglasJB wrote: If one just keeps it polite and clean at all times, you are set no matter who is around.
But, and this is what you seem to have a problem grasping, swearing in a friendly context isn't impolite. Being polite boils down to showing regards to others in your actions. If you know you will not offend others by your word, then there is no harm in the use of words that would be otherwise potentially harmful.
But are you raising up, edifying, your friends with the use of such filthy language together?
Seriously, are any of you becoming better men, better people, for the use of profanity during your group activities?
Honestly!
I have studied group dynamics in the field and I already now the truth based upon comparisons between groups that do and do not use profanities in their activities KO.
DouglasJB wrote: The use of profanity, curse, expletive, obscenity, lewdness, blasphemy and the ilk & so forth is simply a behavioral choice that has consequences that are nothing but devolving.
Why? Socially, I have grown close to friends who have always attempted everything possible to push the limit of the tasteless, in matters of insults. These are socially succesful individuals, all hailing from one of the best scored private school from the country. Why does this language game we play should 'devolve' us?
Are you who you could have been, even should have been, except for choices of this caliber you all made together?
Or have you missed out on greater successes?
Better jobs that the interviewer heard you curse through the window after you left?
Or that interviewer remembered you or a friend with you engaging in a rather dim-witted behavior while cursing in a public green area a while back?
Did all of you get into your first and best choice for tertiary training?
Or did something you did a while before get recalled and you then just did not make the "cut" into the institution.
In other words KO, these fellows that you are still friends with, have they or you been the millstone about someone's neck, and they are just not as better off as they could have been?
Making such a poor decision as to become foul-mouthed may have been just one of several bad choices that could have distinctly bad results in your lives.
This could be just the first steps toward extremely bad decisions like cheating on one's spouse, cheating on one's employers or some other selfish nonsense.
Talk to people who have been imprisoned for large crimes KO.
None came out one day and out of the blue, decide to do what got them incarcerated.
Small and minute steps were taken, including the decision to be profane in their language according to interviews with them while in prison.
Really? And what context drives the idea that cursing is okay?
The (very obvious) non-confrontational nature of that particular social dynamic.
DouglasJB wrote: But are you raising up, edifying, your friends with the use of such filthy language together? Seriously, are any of you becoming better men, better people, for the use of profanity during your group activities? Honestly!
Actually, yes. In quite a few cases, it'd be a lot harder to engage others in discussions about philosophy and phenomenology during our talks if I had to restrict myself to a professional langage. By using rather dirty flourish, I keep their attention and can pass on a modicum of what I study.
DouglasJB wrote: Are you who you could have been, even should have been, except for choices of this caliber you all made together? Or have you missed out on greater successes?
9 years ago I was homeless and jobless in a town 5000km away from the closest person who knew me, and had my entire possessions in two bags of clothes. I'm now finishing a Master in philosophy, and can realistically hope to start teaching inside the next year. My life would've been a hell of a lot easier if it wasn't for a few swirves and bumps, but all in all, it's pretty ballin. And none of those bumps have ever been about swearing in the wrong context. For this, I thank my mom who married and loved an insufferable blasphemer, but never tolerated swearing in her very presence. It bred me and my sisters to be very context-aware.
Better jobs that the interviewer heard you curse through the window after you left?
Hum, I said I swore occasionnaly, not that I was an inbred moron.
Or that interviewer remembered you or a friend with you engaging in a rather dim-witted behavior while cursing in a public green area a while back?
That falls into the 'context' category.
Did all of you get into your first and best choice for tertiary training?
Yes. Although getting my second choice, the first time around, would've saved me about 5 years.
Or did something you did a while before get recalled and you then just did not make the "cut" into the institution.
Hum, no. Ah! Yes, once, I tripped a note while playing a piano concert, and consequently let loose a healthy "Feth!". The audience quite laughed, me too, but later I didn't get selected for a guitar workshop because the teacher said I'd have to practice being more subtle at missing notes. Which is fine, really, because I'm a terrible guitar player and there's no helping that.
In other words KO, these fellows that you are still friends with, have they or you been the millstone about someone's neck, and they are just not as better off as they could have been?
Well, one of them is a politician, so you could say he's going to be a millstone about someone's neck at some point But no, they are all very good, very decent fellows. I'd marry any of them to my sisters.
Talk to people who have been imprisoned for large crimes KO. None came out one day and out of the blue, decide to do what got them incarcerated. Small and minute steps were taken, including the decision to be profane in their language according to interviews with them while in prison.
Yes. Because they are in confrontational situations, and profane language is used in that context to communicate anger and threats.
It appears that life has been "interesting" for you too.
I still do not see in all of your reply, how blaspheming, cursing, swearing, profaning, etc. in any form is okay.
Why can you not respect all others like you do your mother?
If all the profaners, swearers, cursers and blasphemers could just stop trying to be "cool" and respect others like you do your mother, then there would be no need for this thread.
Moreover, I would not have to be so selective in my decisions with whom I will play.
After all of what you wrote, if you still think cursing during a game is just fine, why did you write any of it?
Do you suffer from MPD?
Or do you play with such trash?
Honestly, read what you wrote from a point of view you should be familiar with - your mother's.
Seriously man, if you can control yourself around your mother, why not do so elsewhere?
Ask your mother's opinion on you cursing elsewhere.
Do you respect your mother enough, that if she tells you to stop it, will you stop?!?
I don't mind swearing on the tabletop, a nice healthy "Mutherfether" after a batch of 1's does wonders . Helps that my club is 80% grognards Still, wouldn't swear in front of kids if I can help it unless I don't notice the little blighters.
I still do not see in all of your reply, how blaspheming, cursing, swearing, profaning, etc. in any form is okay.!
While I fail to see what is wrong with it, particularly in an informal setting.
What I find especially distasteful about your attitude is that you seem to think that people who swear are somehow inferior human beings, frankly that is utter bollocks.
-Shrike- wrote: @DouglasJB: I go to a selective English grammar school. If you don't already know, that means my peers and I are generally the most intelligent 2% in the country.
But sadly not intelligent enough to understand statistics.
In most grammar school areas, you need to be in the top 20 per cent. So you're innumerate as well as deluded and potty-mouthed.
Palindrome wrote: What I find especially distasteful about your attitude is that you seem to think that people who swear are somehow inferior human beings, frankly that is utter bollocks.
I wouldn't take it too seriously. He's trolling every thread he posts in.
Well, I'm a construction manager, and I have to be honest, that the F-bomb is more of a comma (To quote Lewis Black) when you're on a job site.
There are a few good apples but at the end of the day the words all blend together. Long hours, hard work, etc. usually grinds a man down.
As for swearing at a tabletop game? Eh, I've been cursing at video games my entire life, this is no different. I feel that everyone burns some steam when they drop a curse, but I do restrain around the kiddies as best I can. Rollin' all 1's doesn't make me shout for joy.
Palindrome wrote: What I find especially distasteful about your attitude is that you seem to think that people who swear are somehow inferior human beings, frankly that is utter bollocks.
I wouldn't take it too seriously. He's trolling every thread he posts in.
That is an interesting opinion fishy bob.
Should I report you for being rude?
Or just shake my head about some people on the Net and simply move on?
You seem to be going out of your way to be rude and insulting though.
Hmm.
And I am trolling in every one bucko?
Does that mean everytime you post an opinion or some information, you too are trolling only fishy bob?
A serious and almost terminal case of the pot calling the kettle black with this posting of yours fishy bob.
Sad, really sad.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Palindrome wrote: What I find especially distasteful about your attitude is that you seem to think that people who swear are somehow inferior human beings, frankly that is utter bollocks.
And somehow, just somehow Palindrome, I have been the only person on this whole thread and elsewhere on Dakka Dakka that thinks your postings and the attitude found therein are lacking at all?
As to the intelligence issue, why are you acting like the only people you have heard that from have been on this thread is me?
It has been mentioned repeatedly.
Seriously man, take some psych, developmental and sociology coursework and hear it from the professors and other instructors there.
That is unless you are concerned they will prove it flawlessly that it is true?
And Palindrome, I was under no false idea that I can convince the lot of you that swearing and such just is not the wise course of action.
Too many of you do it simply to try to shock and awe your opponents.
Hopefully, these gamers you have so verbally abused simply learn not to play you again after the initial spoken abuse coming forth from you.
As to the intelligence issue, why are you acting like the only people you have heard that from have been on this thread is me?
Perhaps because I didn't read all 10 pages? The sole reason that I even posted here is because it was flagged up as the most recent topic and it looked such an unlikely reason for a poll, even in this rather eclectic subforum.
As to the science of swearing lets just say that it doesn't seem to match up to your position, to be honest there seems to be little in the way of actual research into the psychology of swearing and none at all as to its use as a marker for intelligence, or if there is google scholar can't find it or it doesn't show up in the first few pages of results. I would be most interested in reading any pertinent articles that you can find.
I did find a couple of interesting popular science articles however.
Stephen Fry is awesome, thank you for sharing that clip, I hadn't seen it before. I don't think it's proper to curse around children (which is what I voted). But around grown adults, I don't have any problem letting some slip, though I usually apologize after the first slippage to guage their response. I work construction as an Operator, and for those who don't know, the curse words fly all the time on the jobsite, even over radio chatter. The saying "Cursing like a sailor" needs to be amended to "Cursing like an iron worker" haha! But really when you're around it all the time, you tend to slip into it yourself and catch yourself doing it without even realizing it.
Swearing has no basis on how intelligent a person is. If you wish to continue to claim that it does DouglasJB please provide some evidence to back up your claim. I have spent time in the field is a meaningless appeal to authority and proves nothing.
If you avoid plays, art, movies and music due to swearing you are missing out on a great deal of great pieces of work needlessly.
I think judging people as some how less worthy of respect because they swear says a lot more about you than swearing says about them.
I dont care that mormons and catholics do not swear their standards for what is right or wrong are very different to my own.
Finally the world does not owe you the right to not be offended. People do not have to and should not have to conform to your moral code. If ever there was a victimless crime blaspheme is one. Either God doesn't exist and thus who cares, or God does exist and I am sure can survive that someone said his name with a poor attitude.
Feel free to judge and dismiss people based on the fact they swear but I am of the opinion it is one of the most asinine reasons to judge people there is.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I love how you call other people rude and impolite while you have said things here far ruder than a simple swear word. There is nothing polite about saying
"I will simply and politely say, based upon great experience, much education and a whole lot of training, that people who think like this are a serious part of the PROBLEM of our modern society.
And then, far more often than not, these people wonder why our society has become such a cesspool."
What a short sighted and ignorant view that someone who swears are a serious problem in society. Education did not teach you that, it is your own personal bias.
Income Inequality is a serious problem in modern society, explitives are not.
.
but my group of friends are fairly ok with that sort of things but we refrain when there are younger kids nearby.
Still sober enough to proofread, though! 
it. 
