Strategic Survivor

This game is inspired by the game called "Survivor," introduced to Dakka by Kid_Kyoto, and especially by JohnHwangDD's variation on it, which he has named "Super Survivor." John has been abbreviating Super Survivor as "SS" so I will be abbreviating my game as "StratS." Unlike Survivor and SS, where anyone who wants to can participate in the game at whatever point and have as little or as much to do with it as s/he pleases, only players who sign up to play a game of StratS can participate and it is best--for the sake of his/her own experience as well as that of others--that s/he continue playing until s/he is either eliminated or wins. This is because StratS is not a voting game in the same sense as Survivor or SS. Instead, StratS is more of a turn-based strategy game. Players select and control one faction throughout the game. It is similar to Survivor and SS inasmuch as each faction has a number of "wounds" or "hit points" that can be reduced and increased. Just like in Survivor and SS, when a faction loses all of its "wounds" it is eliminated. In StratS, factions lose wounds by being attacked (or, to use the terminology of Survivor and SS, "voted against") by other players. They replenish and even gain wounds by "reinforcing." Also unlike Survivor and SS, StratS factions can "move" from one theater of war to another. Only factions currently located in the same theater of war may attack one another. These are the three possible actions in a game of StratS: Attack, Reinforce, and Move.

The first step in playing StratS is picking a faction. For now, the available factions are: Chaos Space Marines, Eldar, Imperial Guard, Orks, Space Marines, and Tyranids. Each faction has a number of attributes. Attacks, or A, describes how many wounds an attacking faction can inflict on other factions per turn. Targets, or T, describes how many factions an attacking faction must spread its attacks across. For example, Space Marines have A2T1. This means they may inflict two wounds on one other faction each turn. Imperial Guard, meanwhile have A3T3. This means that they can inflict one wound on each of three different factions per turn. Note: The A-to-T ratio is not permissive. An Imperial Guard player may not attack one target three times. If only one target is available in the Imperial Guard player's current theater of war, s/he may only attack that target once. Similarly, if two targets are present in that theater of war, s/he may only attack them once each. This ratio is a way of describing the faction's fighting style. The Imperial Guard, for example, can bring a wide range of firepower against many enemies at once but cannot focus that astounding amount of ordnance against a single foe. By contrast, the Space Marines excel at such precision strikes.

Three attribtes deal with the strength (measured in wounds) and endurance of each faction. Starting Wounds, or Start, describes how many wounds a faction begins play with. Maximum Wounds, or Max describes the maximum amount of wounds a faction may ever have. For example, Space Marines are a relatively small fighting force. They begin play with ten wounds and may only ever have ten wounds. The Tyranid, however, are more prolific. They begin play with fifteen wounds and may reinforce their faction's strength up to twenty five. Generally, this reinforcement takes place concurrently with a Move Action (see below) at a rate described by the Reinforcement, or R, attribute. Some factions, such as Orks, can reinforce their strength more quickly than others.

The final attribute is Movement, or M. Movement describes how "far" a faction can travel amongst the theaters of war. A theater of war can be anything from a region of space (such as Ultramar) to a particular world (such as Macragge) or even a space-going vessel (like a Space Hulk). In some cases, each theater may have special rules that impart advantages or disadvantages to certain factions when they are present. A game of StratS will typically employ five theaters of war: alpha, beta, gamma, delta, and epsilon. Think of these theaters represented by circles arranged together in a pentagon. The space between each circle requires movement. For example, moving between alpha and beta or between epsilon and alpha requires M1 while moving between alpha and gamma or delta and alpha requires M2. Unless specifically stated otherwise in the faction description, a faction must always move between the theaters in order. The M score is permissive: a faction with M2 may move either one or two spaces per Movement Action. Generally, a faction may only move or attack each turn. Some factions may move and attack in the same turn. This attribute is expressed by writing "/A" behind the numeric value of their M score: for example, "M 1/A" means "may move up to one space and attack on that same turn." Any time a faction chooses to move rather than attack, it may reinforce its strength by a number of wounds equal to its R score.

The attribute scores and description (with explanation of special rules where applicable) for each faction are as follows:

Space Marines
A 2 T 1 M 2/A R 1 Start 10 Max 10
Codex Astartes: Space Marines are the ultimate alpha-strike specialists but have strict limitations on their numbers. Space Marine factions may attack on the same turn as they move, but may only attack after moving. Space Marine factions may not reinforce on the same turn as attacking.

Imperial Guard
A 3 T 3 M 1 R 2/1 Start 15 Max 20
Hammer of the Emperor: Even when dug in, the Imperial Guard can muster an amazing barrage of firepower. Imperial Guard factions may reinforce by 1 on the same turn as attacking. They may reinforce by 2 on the same turn as moving.

Orks
A 1 T 1 M 1/A R 2 Start 10 Max 20
Waaaaagh!: An Ork army gathers strength with momentum, growing stronger as it charges belligerently across the stars. Ork factions may attack on the same turn as they move, but may only attack after moving. Ork factions may not reinforce on the same turn as attacking.

Eldar
A 1 T 1 M */A R 1 Start 10 Max 10
The Webway: The enigmatic Eldar slip in and out of their Webway portals, attacking where they are least expected. An Eldar faction can move from its current theater of war to any other theater, disregarding the normal movement order. Eldar factions may also attack on the same turn as they move. They may attack either before or after moving. Eldar factions may reinforce while moving on the same turn as attacking.

Tyranids
A 2 T 2/1 M 1 R * Start 15 Max 25
The Great Devourer: Tyranids Hive Fleets sweep through the galaxy, assimilating the biomass of their victims into new troops. Tyranid factions may inflict either two wounds on one target or one wound on two targets per Attack Action. The Tyranid faction reinforces on the same turn that it attacks rather than on a turn that it moves. Its R score is determined from attack to attack by how many targets it wounds in a given turn.

Chaos Space Marines
A 1 T 1 M 1/A R 1 Start 10 Max 15
Legions of the Warp: The predations of Chaos Space Marine warbands are aided both by the denizens and the deceptions of the Immaterium. Chaos Space Marine factions may attack on the same turn as they move, either before or after they move. Chaos Space Marine factions may reinforce while moving on the same turn as attacking.

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To recap, as well as cover some further bases, here is a more structured version of the rules that incorporates whatever may not have been stated before:

+ Step 1: Let a Game Host (for now, only me) know that you are interested in playing StratS so that s/he can organize all the interested parties into a game.

+ Step 2: Pick a faction. You may choose Chaos Space Marines, Eldar, Imperial Guard, Orks, Space Marines, or Tyranids. Other factions may be added in the future (please feel free to post your suggestions on what their stat lines should look like in this thread!), but for now I would prefer to see how these six factions play and whether these rules even work or not. After picking a faction, you need to submit to the Game Host a specific and faction-appropriate name like Space Wolves for a Space Marine faction or Hive Fleet Leviathan for a Tyranid faction. (Names not found in GW-published or GW-licensed materials should be submitted for approval to the Game Host. They will generally only be approved if there are no more canonical names available. This is to preserve the recognizability of each faction.) Faction names are unique to each game: there can only be one Space Wolves Space Marine faction or Hive Fleet Leviathan Tyranid faction per game. There is no other limit, however, on how many of the same faction may compete in the same game. In a five-player game, for example, there could be five Eldar players--but each player would have to pick a unique faction name to identify themselves with: perhaps Biel-Tan, Saim-Hann, Ulthwe, Iyanden, and Altaioc. (Names will be assigned on a first-come-first-served basis.)

*Steps 1 and 2 should generally be done in an Interest Thread started by a prospective Game Host and separated from the Game Thread. The Game Host should post descriptions of the special rules for each theater of war in this Interest Thread so that potential players can discuss, constructively critique, and even plan around them before play begins. Alternatively, the Game Host can choose to eschew special rules for theaters of war altogether. (There will probably be no special rules for the the theaters of war in the first game but please feel free to suggest some. A specific theater of war should have a special rule for at least two different factions. For example, Armageddon may allow Imperial Guard factions to reinforce at R2 on the same turn as attacking AND give Orks A2T1.)

+ Step 3: PLAY! The Game Host will start a Game Thread, the first post of which will be a description of the theaters of war and their order (whatever the game-specific name of the theaters, each will be assigned a value of alpha, beta, gamma, delta, or epsilon to identify their order relative to one another). Although the Game Host can play StratS as a regular player, s/he cannot take a Move or Attack Action at the same time that s/he starts the Game Thread. This means that the Game Host will never have the first move. S/he makes up for this disadvantage by being allowed to decide how factions are initially placed across the theaters of war as well as how the theaters themselves are arranged. (But note that the first post does not count as the Game Host's turn for the first day. After the first post, the title "Game Host" is effectively meaningless.) A first post should look something like this (except that I am deliberately leaving out the desciption/special rules for each theater of war):

Manchu wrote:Armageddon (alpha)
Steel Legion (IG) 15
Bad Moons (Orks) 10

Craftworld Iyanden (beta)
Iyanden (Eldar) 10
Kraken (Nids) 15

Eye of Terror (gamma)
Word Bearers (CSM) 10
Ulthwe (Eldar) 10

Macragge (delta)
Leviathan (Nids) 15
Ultramarines (SM) 10

Alveus Alpha Alpha Sextus (epsilon)
Blood Axes (Orks) 10

The next post is the first turn of the game. Who gets the first turn is simply a matter of timing. Each player may take one turn each day (beginning at 12:01AM EST). This is to ensure that players have time not only to think about their own moves but also to make alliances with or even betray other players. A player post should begin with a narrative announcing which faction is taking its turn and what it is doing (this is the easiest way to allow other attentive players to check and see if what you are doing isn't breaking rules). Please use colored font to make these notations stand out! Generally green is good for moves/reinforcements and red is good to show who you are attacking. For example, let's say that 1hadhq is playing the Steel Legion and wants to move to support the Ultramarines on Macragge. He will take a move action rather than an attach action. Because his IG have M1, he will only get so far as the Space Hulk Alveus Alpha Alpha Sextus on this turn. But he may also reinforce by 2 on that move. His post will look like this:

1hadhq wrote:Steel Legion. Move to Alveus Alpha Alpha Sectus, Reinforce 2.

Armageddon (alpha)
Bad Moons (Orks) 10

Craftworld Iyanden (beta)
Iyanden (Eldar) 10
Kraken (Nids) 15

Eye of Terror (gamma)
Word Bearers (CSM) 10
Ulthwe (Eldar) 10

Macragge (delta)
Leviathan (Nids) 15
Ultramarines (SM) 10

Alveus Alpha Alpha Sextus (epsilon)
Blood Axes (Orks) 10
Steel Legion (IG) 17

Let's say that JohnHwangDD happens to be online and see the Game Thread as updated by 1hadhq before anyone else--and let's say that he's also playing the Blood Axes! His post might look something like this:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Blood Axes. Attack Steel Legion at Alveus Alpha Alpha Sextus.

Armageddon (alpha)
Bad Moons (Orks) 10

Craftworld Iyanden (beta)
Iyanden (Eldar) 10
Kraken (Nids) 15

Eye of Terror (gamma)
Word Bearers (CSM) 10
Ulthwe (Eldar) 10

Macragge (delta)
Leviathan (Nids) 15
Ultramarines (SM) 10

Alveus Alpha Alpha Sextus (epsilon)
Blood Axes (Orks) 10
Steel Legion (IG) 16

Let us further say that the next person to update the thread is me, playing the Bad Moons. I want to chase 1hadhq from Armageddon and help my fellow Ork JohnHwangDD over on the Space Hulk. I can do all this on one turn because Orks have M 1/A. Here's what my post would look like:

Manchu wrote:Bad Moons. Attack Steel Legion at Alveus Alpha Alpha Sextus.

Armageddon (alpha)

Craftworld Iyanden (beta)
Iyanden (Eldar) 10
Kraken (Nids) 15

Eye of Terror (gamma)
Word Bearers (CSM) 10
Ulthwe (Eldar) 10

Macragge (delta)
Leviathan (Nids) 15
Ultramarines (SM) 10

Alveus Alpha Alpha Sextus (epsilon)
Bad Moons (Orks) 10
Blood Axes (Orks) 10
Steel Legion (IG) 15

You'll note that in this example, John and I only managed to pick off two wounds from 1hadhq's Steel Legion, i.e., he ended up where he began before moving and will be back up to strength 17 by the time he makes it to Ultramar. In other words, factions can be pretty tough. This is why forming alliances and keeping abreast of cooperative strategies will be essential to winning this game. If John and I played our cards right with the Leviathan player (or even the Ultramarine player for that matter) we could soon have 1hadhq in a pretty tight spot. But what are the odds of everyone working in lock-step for long? Especially if you ever want to get to Step 4 . . .

+ Step 4: WIN! Only one player per game will ever make it this far because in order to win you have to be the last player standing. That's why it's called Strategic Survivor, after all. At the end of the game, an impossible stalemate of cat-and-mouse maneuvers may ensue. In this case, the "last player standing" will be the one which had the most wounds when the third to last player was eliminated.

If you are interested in playing a game of StratS, please let me know by posting in this thread. I also welcome any constructive comments or criticisms. I know there must be a lot of rules glitches that I haven't caught as this post and its edits really are my first pass through this.

Yeah, sure, I'm up for it. Count me in as the Chaos Space Marines. So, let me get this straight. CSM can move, attack (or attack then move) and reinforce on the same turn. Can they still move and reinforce if they don't attack?

Another thing: there will be a new thread once the game actually starts?

CSM seem to be very mobile, so I'll fly under Lord Huron's banner as the Red Corsairs.

Thanks for signing up! Red Corsairs it is!

And thanks for the great question.

The options for CSM on a given turn would be:

(1) Move

(2) Move and Reinforce

(3) Attack then Move and Reinforce

(4) Move and Reinforce then Attack

(5) Attack

but NOT

(6) Reinforce then Attack then Move

(7) Move then Attack then Reinforce

(8) Attack then Reinforce or

(9) Reinforce then Attack

This isn't immediately apparent in the rules I've written above but I think this is the most equitable thing as Move and Reinforce are tied together for everyone else. Also, movement is good--it's supposed to encourage a lot of aggression. Guard and especially Nids are the two forces designed to be able to fortify their position.

Yes, there will be a new thread when the game itself starts. I hope for somewhere between ten and fifteen players.

Alright, I think I understand. So Space Marine players can't do numbers 3 and 4.

I guess I have another question though: are Imperial Guard players allowed to reinforce without moving? Since they can't move and attack on the same turn, they are otherwise never able to reinforce by 1 on the same turn they attack. If they can reinforce without moving, can they reinforce even if they aren't attacking?

This is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for, DarkHound. Keep it coming!

Guard possibilities are

(1) Attack

(2) Attack and Reinforce by 1

(3) Move

(4) Move and Reinforce by 2

BUT NOT

(5) Reinforce by 1 (without attacking or moving, that is)

This is the Hammer of the Emperor special rule. They aren't able to move and attack on the same turn but--unlike all other factions except Tyranids--they can reinforce while attacking.

I'll admit being quite confused how exactly this works, but I'll have a go. It'll probably make more sense after a turn or two.

I like the 'sneak up, attack, withdraw' tactic so I'll go eldar, of the Biel-tan craftworld.

Awesome, Morgrim. If the first game goes well then you can help work out a stat line for the Dark Eldar. Let me know if you have questions about how any of the rules work because I know I must have missed a lot. Don't worry about being confused: for one thing, it's not the best organization and, for another, I haven't thought everything through completely as DarkHound's insightful questions point out.

DarkHound wrote:Alright, I think I understand. So Space Marine players can't do numbers 3 and 4.

Yes, exactly. Space Marines hit hard but they're pretty inflexible and do poorly if you leave them in one place for even a short while. Orks are similar, except they don't hit quite as hard (or far) and benefit even more from moving around. Move them around enough and you could have a pretty nice force at your disposal. The next pair-off, as I've already pointed out, are Guard and Nids. These factions can settle into a theater and fight wars of attrition--and they do it best against multiple enemies. Guard can fend off multiple enemies even while just barely keeping their heads above water. (Support them with Space Marines and it should be a mess for the other team!) Nids eat and grow and grow and grow. They can't reinforce through movement so they're only incentive to move is to hunt food. Finally, Eldar and CSM are pretty similar. They're both hunters, with Eldar being more agile and CSM being (potentially) more sturdy. I think there is good incentive to see Guard and SM work together (playstyle-wise, I mean, all fluff aside) but all the others are designed to be lone fighters.

This looks very interesting. Sign me up for the Cadian 117th space-borne division.

@Admiral-Bell: Consider yourself Cadian. Just Cadian. I know it's not as fluff-accurate, but it might get tricky to keep up with one player as the Cadian 117th and another as the Cadian 88th, etc. Let me know if you have any rules questions and keep and eye on the thread for discussion and (eventually) a link to the first Game Thread.

I have re-read the rules slower and it looks great!

On the Eldar/Dark Eldar stats: I think that being the rules (and profiles) this simple, there isn't actually much difference between both races. So, couldn't just a Dark Eldar player play like a Craftworld Eldar? You know, just picking as name Kabal of the Wild Whatever, instead of a Craftworld name.

After all, the Imperium doesn't use to difference them very much

Manchu,

You never fail to impress. I really like the concept of this game.

I do have one question though. Does the SM 2 A and 2 M mean that the SMs can pull off a strafing run through one theater of war on their way to a second theater?


Please sign me up for the fun as an Eldar of the Saim Hann Craftworld.

Thanks

Blood!

Sign me up for World Eaters.

This is really cool. Good work Manchu. I'm going to have to re-read those rules though. I just wanted to stake my claim.

Proposed rules for SoB:

Sisters of Battle
A 1 /2 T 1 M 1 R 1 Start 10 Max 15
Acts of Faith: If their number of wounds equals or is less than 5 they will inflict 2 wounds instead of one to their selected objetive, due to the heroic actions inspired by the visions of the Emperor, a reincarnated Saint, or what you like better xD

Seems a good idea Manchu.
I would like to play.

Hive Fleet Kraken please.

PM when the actual thread is up and could you reiterate what the Tyranid faction can do in a turn as well. (like yo8u did for CSM and Guard)

I'm in! I'll be Bloodaxes please.

Now, if only I could find more boyz for Da Waaaaagh...

I'm in. Loyal Firstborn signing up with Vostroyans, praise be the Emperor's Name.

Thanks for all the support guys. We're already up to ten. We'll begin somewhere around fifteen I think but as many as twenty would be fine. I like that statline fore Sisters and think it will work fine in a future game. I think DE should have their own rules, however. I will post a roster and possibilities for other factions when I'm not on my cellie. In the meantime, if people could do some recruiting that would help. Also if anyone can spot any more vague rules or hsa other constructive criticism that would be great, too. To answer focusedfire, I think Marines should be able to strafe. But they need a devoted move to reinforce. I'm surprised no one has claimed a Chapter yet.

I still haven't chose a faction because I'm waiting to know if the game will begin with the 6 races we know, or if we will have something more.

I would happily play with any, in fact

The first game will stick to the six faction detailed above.

Sign me up!

Craftworld Ulthwe!

A list of what you already got as players would be nice.

Am I booked as example or as player?
Could go reserve, so you have someone to balance the armies.

I used you in the example but would be grateful if you signed up for the game. We've 2 CSM, 2 IG, 3 Eldar, 1 Nid, 1 Ork, and 3 unknowns (counting both you and I) right now.

I think I'll take the Black Templars.

Finally, a Space Marine player! Huzzah!

Manchu wrote:I used you in the example but would be grateful if you signed up for the game. We've 2 CSM, 2 IG, 3 Eldar, 1 Nid, 1 Ork, and 3 unknowns (counting both you and I) right now.

I am in but not sure who I am...
We have:

- Darkhound = CSM / Red Corsairs
- Shaman = CSM / World Eaters


- Erasoketa = SM / Black Templars


- Morgrim = Eldar / Biel Tan
- Focusedfire = Eldar / Saim Hann
- Inquisitor Syphonious = Eldar / Ulthwe


- Emperors Faithful = IG / Vostroya
- Admiral Bell = IG / Cadia


- Vikingscott = Nids / kraken


- Albatross = Orks / Blood axes

Still indecisive..... Maybe not elfs... so either IG / SM or ork / nids.
I am open for suggestions.

I think 'Nids have a more interesting mechanic. I'd go for them over SM or Orks.

Forgot to ask:


Space marines and orks "may only attack after moving" .
Does this mean they cannot attack someone entering their actual location as they have to move first?

Like in your example, steel legion moving to x and the local orks attacking them.
May an SM choose to leave and return to deal with this?
Has an ork to move, therefore cannot attack "incoming visitors". ?

1hadhq wrote:Forgot to ask:


Space marines and orks "may only attack after moving" .
Does this mean they cannot attack someone entering their actual location as they have to move first?

Like in your example, steel legion moving to x and the local orks attacking them.
May an SM choose to leave and return to deal with this?
Has an ork to move, therefore cannot attack "incoming visitors". ?

I think it's like this: SM can attack without moving, can move without attacking, or can move and then attack. But not attack and then run away like cowards!

Good catch. Just like Orks, they could attack someone entering their current theater but could not move after doing so.

I'll join, sign me up as the Night Lords CSM.

If there are 3 IG players, do they all control the same IG regiment? Or do they each have an IG regiment of their own?

@ EF

You control one regiment to yourself. From what I understand you will eventually have to betray the other IG players to win should the IG players be the last standing.

Interesting... I don't have online access anymore so I can't play right now:(

OK, this is an interesting game.

I like the Armies X Locations concept - it's very clear.

[removed commentary & suggestions]

Question for Manchu:

Am I correct that Eldar play every turn the same:

(1) Move (and Reinforce) with Attack?

Pointless:

(2) Reinforce (because it's free with Move)

(3) Attack (because it's free with Move)

So, wait...who's running this thing?

Manchu. I'm just giving him my take on his proposal.

I don't know that I like John's idea. You lose a whole lot of complexity, but the races feel really similiar. The idea of Command restricts what makes the race unique, when it should just be an inherent attribute. You need more complexity to creat diversity.

I agree with DarkHound here. It's better to have a unique feel to playing your chosen race even if that means it's more complex.

Guys, I think I proposed a good game, a different, streamlined game, but I withdraw my comments.

There's certainly nothing wrong with creating a variation of this game. I'd like to see how it works generally as written but am totally open to help with the glaring errors or unclear parts. So, John, I would like to see your suggestions if you're game. Regarding Eldar: they and Chaos do have the highest incentive to keep moving, as I wanted them to both work as "raider" factions to capture their fluff identity. (I have been wanting to post the envisioned tactica for the factions but haven't had time yet.) But there are instances where options 2 and 3 on your list may be handy. For erexample' Eldar are generally too fragile to stick it out in one theater to keep hitting the same enemy BUT they could safely do this in an alliance. In such a case, having to move all the time would be pointless. Similalarly, an Eldar player arriving in a haven theater full of friendly factions would not want to attack. Do people think the Eldar and/or CSM are overpowered?

So how many players are we waiting for? 20?

I think we can begin at Friday 12:01AM EST. Everyone who hasn't picked a faction should do so. You may change your faction until I post the starting positions tonight. I will sit out the first game in case I need to make impartial calls on rules. Plus, I am thinking of changing Chaos and Eldar somewhat. Was thinking Eldar could be Start5 Max10, no other changes. Was thinking of changing Chaos to "may reinforce on a move followed by an attack or on a move with no attacks." Comments?

Thats our setup?

- Darkhound = CSM / Red Corsairs
- Shaman = CSM / World Eaters
- Brother Stynier = CSM / Night Lords

- Erasoketa = SM / Black Templars


- Morgrim = Eldar / Biel Tan
- Focusedfire = Eldar / Saim Hann
- Inquisitor Syphonious = Eldar / Ulthwe


- Emperors Faithful = IG / Vostroya
- Admiral Bell = IG / Cadia


- Vikingscott = Nids / kraken


- Albatross = Orks / Blood axes

Without Manchu, we have 12 players.

I'll go SM / RavenGuard this time.

Manchu wrote:There's certainly nothing wrong with creating a variation of this game. I'd like to see how it works generally as written but am totally open to help with the glaring errors or unclear parts. So, John, I would like to see your suggestions if you're game.

Regarding Eldar: they and Chaos do have the highest incentive to keep moving, as I wanted them to both work as "raider" factions to capture their fluff identity. Do people think the Eldar and/or CSM are overpowered?

I think we can begin at Friday 12:01AM EST. Everyone who hasn't picked a faction should do so. You may change your faction until I post the starting positions tonight.

I will sit out the first game in case I need to make impartial calls on rules. Plus, I am thinking of changing Chaos and Eldar somewhat.

Was thinking Eldar could be Start5 Max10, no other changes. Was thinking of changing Chaos to "may reinforce on a move followed by an attack or on a move with no attacks." Comments?

Manchu: I suggested a streamlined alternate of this game, not being aware of how much this game had "solidified" (I made the mistake of thinking this was more in the design phase, rather than going in to a test game). I'll post my version over the weekend, after this game is underway.

I think Eldar are perhaps a bit boring, as they appear to only have one tactic. I don't think they'll be overpowered.

Sign me up for Eldar / Zandros - I'll give them a go.

Leave the Eldar stats and Chaos rules unchanged for now, especially as people have signed up based on the original stats and rules. There are enough heavy hitters that an Eldar 5 start could be eliminated in the first turn or two, depending on the start locations. If Eldar are "too tough at 10/10", then try 8/8 for the next game. Similarly, if Chaos rules aren't right, you can tweak them for the new rule next game.

Is the actual game going to continue in this thread or in a new one?
If its in a new one could some one PM with a link please so i don't miss it.

Once I open the game thread I will post a link in this thread as well as PM everyone who has signed up. I was also think of allowing two turns per day: one during the 12:01AM - 6:00PM EST half and another in the 6:01PM - 12:00AM EST period. On the one hand, I don't want people having to wait forever for another turn. On the other hand, I want them to have enough time to coordinate and manage alliances. Comments? John, I will take you advice regarding leaving Eldar and CSM as-are.

@Manchu: Open a poll for 1 per day or 2 per day. I'm OK either way, with a mild preference for 1 per day, as you originally proposed.

@Manchu:
Youre aware how international this has become? Different timezones may get into the way of fast play.



2 turns may work.
I'll try to be there twice a day.

1hadhq wrote:
@Manchu:
Youre aware how international this has become? Different timezones may get into the way of fast play.

Spoiler:

why do you run with a norwegian flag now?

I only saw this on one of his posts. It's not on his latest.

Alright leaving it at 1/day for the opening game. When I post from my phone, Dakka makes me Norwegian.

Manchu wrote:Alright leaving it at 1/day for the opening game. When I post from my phone, Dakka makes me Norwegian.

Maybe you should buy your personal technology american or chinese, like the rest of us.

I'm in, though I've never participated in regular Survivor. Should be an interesting experience.

Can I run as Orks- Freebooterz?

Though I'm not sure if I'd be able to update often, so I guess that means I'm a likely candidate for the weakest link!

Thats our setup?

- Darkhound = CSM / Red Corsairs
- Shaman = CSM / World Eaters
- Brother Stynier = CSM / Night Lords

- Erasoketa = SM / Black Templars
- 1hadhq = SM / Raven Guard

- Morgrim = Eldar / Biel Tan
- Focusedfire = Eldar / Saim Hann
- Inquisitor Syphonious = Eldar / Ulthwe
- JohnHwangDD = Eldar / Zandros

- Emperors Faithful = IG / Vostroya
- Admiral Bell = IG / Cadia


- Vikingscott = Nids / Kraken


- Albatross = Orks / Blood axes
- Nightwatch = Orks / Freebooterz

@John : Zandros? must be really deep hidden in the webway....

PS: IIRC, america already sold off tons of tech to china, so sooner or later you all have to run the red flag....

Maybe another nid-player? Would be a nice 15th player.

@Manchu- How about one turn/per player for every twelve hour period after the start of the game?

That way the individual knows to use the time stamp from the opening post.

If this would be to unclear, further clarification could be possible by having a time keeper can call the next turn on the 12 hour mark.

Just an idea.

@focusedfire: Regardless of how it's done, would you like more turns/day? I lean toward two myself but that is due to my worry of the game being too long.

One seems plenty fine, I am zealously participating in the mafia game right now...

Zandros is the home of the "wierdly terrifying" Slicing Orbs Aspect, from the 2E Eldar Codex.

Oh, yeah, are colors *really* needed in the action orders?

I think colors are good for making it clear what happened on your turn. But I suppose the narrative could suffice.

Lot of Eldar players. We'll get that sorted soon enough.

I'm in, I'll be tossing my choppa in with Allby and Nightwatch.

Orkz/Goffs

And FITZZ makes 15!

3 CSM
2 SM
4 Eldar
2 Guard
1 Nids
3 Orks

Hay, Chaos & Xenos - wanna kill Imps first?!?

Sounds good to me John.

Hrm...Orkses knows where da best fightin' iz. An' crushin' da humies just might be da way t' go!

OK, BS, there are 4 Imp heads to take as trophies. I think Xenos can take more Imp heads (skulls) than CSM.

Or Orkzes, for that matter.

What say you to a little competition here?

Design Tactica

This is how I envisioned the various factions working and the principles according to which I designed their rules. It will be interesting to see how they really pan out but this will be a record of my intentions at least.

Eldar: As I mentioned above, I wanted Eldar to be all over the place and able to appear unpredictably. Their rules therefore give them a very high incentive to keep moving. This isn't just about movement. They're also fragile. I hope this will push people playing Eldar into alliances early on in a game.

CSM: Like Eldar, CSM are about unpredictable raiding. They are a bit less "fast" (each faction can only move from one to one theater per turn but Eldar can ignore the normal order of movement rules) and a bit more sturdy. In this case, the idea was to make a vicious faction that might need to enter alliances in the early game but could become strong enough to feel safe betraying erstwhile partners at any moment.

SM: These guys are sort of a glass hammer. They hit as hard as anyone can in this game--and nearly as fast--but are even more fragile than Eldar. Thanks to their unique "strafing ability," they are likely the most effectively mobilized faction. The obvious goal here was to create an ideal ally for the Imperial Guard.

Orks: I'd say this faction is the closest thing to an all-rounder. They can move to attack (but cannot move from an attack) but can reinforce by 2 if they choose not to attack. This is supposed to represent both the Orks' adaptability and short attention span. In order to get up to their very respectable full strength, they have to wander around--getting into who knows what kind of fights along the way. Orks may be well-rounded enough to not need long-term allies themselves, but an offer from them should not be scoffed at.

Imperial Guard: A wide front full of enemies does not intimidate the Emperor's Hammer--that much. The Guard are one of the two factions that can really dig in but I think they'll need a partner. Fortunately, there are plenty of great factions to fill this role--not least of all the Space Marines.

Tyranids: They eat you to make more of them. That's the main thing. Incidentally, the only reason they ever need to move is to find more of you to eat. I designed these guys to be unlovable by everyone else and even each other by making them very threatening. That same threatening quality, however, makes them not necessarily need anyone else.

Nightwatch, Fitzz--very glad to see you both are joining!

Manchu wrote:Nightwatch, Fitzz--very glad to see you both are joining!

Thanks Manchu.

I've been quite involved in the " Dawn of the Dead" RP lately...but wanted to get in on this as well.

I think we should stick with 1 move every 24 hours using Manchu's initial post time to guide us. The problem with two posts a day is it can unfairly handicap players with limitted time, or who run into unexpected events.

I initially thought Eldar were going to be overpowered because they ignore all the limitations of the game, but their statline was enough of a limitting factor to keep me from mentioning it. However, if Eldar were unable to reinforce while attacking it would reinforce the fact that they can't stand and fight. This is countered by their ability to avoid combat entirely if they want (allowing them to reinforce while they faff about). Just move across the galaxy from any opponent, and if the Eldar player has an opponent on every section of the board, then he's not long for this game anyway.

The CSM I'm fine with though. They don't hit as hard as SM, or move as quickly, but they are more free.

JohnHwangDD wrote:OK, BS, there are 4 Imp heads to take as trophies. I think Xenos can take more Imp heads (skulls) than CSM.

Or Orkzes, for that matter.

What say you to a little competition here?

You're on John.

Awesome!

OK, Manchu - let's do it!

All right, I did a bit of thinking, and, omitting the numbers, here are the possibilities for all the races on their turns:

Space Marines

A) Move(2), Reinforce(1)
B) Move(2), Attack(1)
C) Move(1), Attack(1), Move(1)
D) Move(1), Attack(1)
E) Move(1), Reinforce(1)

Imperial Guard

A) Move(1), Reinforce(2)
B) Attack(1, 1, 1), Reinforce(1)

Orks

A) Move(1), Reinforce(2)
B) Move(1), Attack(1)

Eldar

A) Attack(1), Move(*), Reinforce(1)
B) Move(*), Attack(1), Reinforce(1)

Tyranids

A) Move(1)
B) Attack(1, 1), Reinforce(2)
C) Attack(2), Reinforce(1)

Chaos Space Marines

A) Move(1), Attack(1), Reinforce(1)
B) Attack(1), Move(1), Reinforce(1)

EDIT: Now updated, with numbers and all confusions fixed!

I'm setting up the thread now. Stand by for the link.

Orks can Move then Reinforce, or Move then Attack.

As I understand it: Space Marines have a move of 2, which means they can Move, Attack, and Move again. They can effectively JsJ, although it doesn't specifically say that in Codex Astartes. I don't think this is very characteristic of Space Marines though. It'd be a great rule for the Tau, just make it so Space Marines can't move again after attacking.

DarkHound wrote:Orks can Move then Reinforce, or Move then Attack.

As I understand it: Space Marines have a move of 2, which means they can Move, Attack, and Move again. They can effectively JsJ, although it doesn't specifically say that in Codex Astartes. I don't think this is very characteristic of Space Marines though. It'd be a great rule for the Tau, just make it so Space Marines can't move again after attacking.

I got the impression from the blurb that they could only move before attacking. Actually, to be honest Gwar! would have a field day over that little bit, it really hurts.

Space Marines
A 2 T 1 M 2/A R 1 Start 10 Max 10
Codex Astartes: Space Marines are the ultimate alpha-strike specialists but have strict limitations on their numbers. Space Marine factions may attack on the same turn as they move, but may only attack after moving. Space Marine factions may not reinforce on the same turn as attacking.

They may only attack after moving: this means they must move at least once before they attack, but then may move again. OR they could move two, and then attack. I think I get it now.

The Orks can reinforce after moving? I'm pretty sure it didn't say that.

Orks
A 1 T 1 M 1/A R 2 Start 10 Max 20
Waaaaagh!: An Ork army gathers strength with momentum, growing stronger as it charges belligerently across the stars. Ork factions may attack on the same turn as they move, but may only attack after moving. Ork factions may not reinforce on the same turn as attacking.

It didn't say specifically that you could, but then again, it doesn't say you can't. All right then, I'll edit my original post.

No, its in the main rules. You've got to Move to Reinforce.

DarkHound wrote:No, its in the main rules. You've got to Move to Reinforce.

Gotcha. It's all cleared up now, and I've fixed my earlier post to make a simple chart of what each race is allowed to do, uncluding the numbers.

Game Thread is up:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/301984.page#1695363

Nightwatch wrote:
Space Marines

A) Move(2), Reinforce(1)
B) Move(2), Attack(1)
C) Move(1), Attack(1), Move(1)
D) Move(1), Reinforce(1)
E) Move(1), Attack(1)

Tyranids

A) Move(1)
B) Attack(1, 1), Reinforce(2)
C) Attack(2), Reinforce(1)

Very helpful, Nightwatch! Just two changes and I think it'll be all right.

Im down with that anti imperium alliance.

Manchu wrote:Just two changes and I think it'll be all right.

Maybe you can edit the first post of the new thread with the actions?

So, 10 hours until the first turn begins, right?

'ere we g... For the Emprah!

Um, actually, I think it started about 2.5 hours ago...

I thought that 12:01AM EST 25 June 2010 was 18:01 25 June 2010 in Madrid >_<

Edit: posted this at 9:07 25th June 2010, Spanish time.

In the next game (presuming people still want to play), I am considering a number of possible changes (the "will" is therefore contingent upon discussion):

(1) Theaters of War will be called Worlds.

(2) The number of Worlds per any game will be one third the number of players rounded up (with a minimum of five).

(3) The group of Worlds will be called the Board.

(4) The Board will be a line rather than a ring for the purposes of movement.

(5) One new faction will be added. I have added a poll to this thread. Please vote which faction you would like to see added. The poll will close at the end of Game One. Anyone, not only players in Game One, may vote in the poll. I encourage suggested rules for each possible new faction. (Erasoketa already has some pretty lovely rules for Sisters posted in this thread.)

(6) CSM will only be able to reinforce on a move followed by an attack.

(7) Eldar will have Start 5 Max 10. On a linear Board, they should have plenty of time/space to raid and hide.

(8) SM will have "Codex Astartes: Space Marine factions may move up to two spaces per turn. They may not attack between moves but they may attack on the same turn as moving as long as they attack after the move." As usual, no faction must move in order to attack.

I am fine with N°1-8, but maybe repeat the suggested rules you already have for the factions of point 5?

This is the only suggestion so far, from page one.

Erasoketa wrote:Proposed rules for SoB:

Sisters of Battle
A 1 /2 T 1 M 1 R 1 Start 10 Max 15
Acts of Faith: If their number of wounds equals or is less than 5 they will inflict 2 wounds instead of one to their selected objetive, due to the heroic actions inspired by the visions of the Emperor, a reincarnated Saint, or what you like better xD

I think I would change it to say "if they are at less than Start" rather than five or less.

Manchu wrote:(2) The number of Worlds per any game will be one third the number of players rounded up.

(4) The Board will be a line rather than a ring for the purposes of movement.

(7) Eldar will have Start 5 Max 10. On a linear Board, they should have plenty of time/space to raid and hide.

Nope. If each starting location has, on average, 3 players, there's nowhere for an Eldar player to hide. Eldar will die within the first 3 turns simply because they're easy to kill, everybody else having at least twice the starting wounds.

Make the board twice the number of players, or start all of the non-Eldar players on end of the line, or start the Eldar off-board and let them choose when to come in, then maybe the Eldar have a chance to reinforce for a bit.

JohnHwangDD wrote:or start the Eldar off-board and let them choose when to come in

I like this a lot. Eldar currently have an incredible advantage of being able to do everything in one turn. They're only disadvantage so far is having Max 10, which, combined with their advantages, makes them less frail than Space Marines. Something's gotta give here.

Space Marines are A2. That's a huge difference.

3 SM vs 3 Eldar, who auto-wins?

On a Linear Board with sufficient space, Eldar can always get away--reinforcing every time they do. Maybe the minimum number of worlds should be five?

JohnHwangDD wrote:Space Marines are A2. That's a huge difference.

3 SM vs 3 Eldar, who auto-wins?

Eldar.

The SM already lost 1, Eldar didn't lose anything in game One.

Maybe:

Eldar may choose their starting point but have to enter before turn 2 begins?
encourages alliances pre-game
Worlds: 15 players = 7, 20 players = 12 ? Line used up to 7, afterwards more complicated forms in use.
a line of more than 7 spaces keeps the M1 players busy with castling as more than 5 turns to get somewhere isn't acceptable. Would
recommend more connections on bigger maps.

@Manchu-Honestly, I like your orignal circular game board idea better.

IMO, should start a minimum number of 6 worlds and allow a world for every two races in games of 14 players or more.

Idea for Tau Faction
A 2 T 1 or 2 M 2* R 1 Start 10 Max 10
Move Shoot Move- The Tau may move(1) then take an action and move(1) but may not move (2) and take an action. All actions happen on the first move or no move for the Tau.
Examples:
a) move (1), attack (2)or(1,1), and move (1)
b) move (1), attack (2)or(1,1), re-enforce (1)
c) move (1), re-enforce (1), Move (1)
d) attack (2)or(1,1), re-enforce (1)
e) Attack (2)or(1,1)
f) Re-enforce (1)

Just a quick idea on Tau.

@1hadhq. If Eldar did start "in reserve" I would be skeptical about allowing them to begin post Turn 1. Being able to choose your start location is advantage enough for the faction that already has everything.

@ff: Why do you like the circular board better? Also, the JSJ thing for Tau is okay in the sense that it captures the feel of their battlesuits. But this is at an interstellar army level. I'm not so sure JSJ really suits that as well. But I am still open to arguments in its favor at this point. I also don't like them being A2. In the original design, A2 was a SM prerogative with Nids only able to do it at the expense of maxing their reinforcement.

Manchu wrote:@1hadhq. If Eldar did start "in reserve" I would be skeptical about allowing them to begin post Turn 1. Being able to choose your start location is advantage enough for the faction that already has everything.

Wasn't clear enough, sorry.

Intended to have them place before turn 1 runs out, they got 24 hours to join but if they miss, they're lost.

They could wait to prevent hits, but still must be there at turn 2 with max 6 wounds. Could get away against some attacks, but 3 A 2
players would be their doom.


Should the "new" faction be A1?

- Dark eldar = raiders. May reduce reinforcement of their victim of -1 when hitting. ( R 1 => R 0, R 2 => R 1 ). Fast and fragile.
Could start with A1 M3 R1 T1 5/10 wounds. Actions : M,M,M,R / M,A,M,M / M,M,A,M / M,M,M,A / A,M,M,M / A / R.

should be able to paralyze ( terror, slaves )

- Necron = undead hordes. Slow and purposeful. May not attack and re-enforce at the same turn. May re-enforce by 2 if unmoved as more of them are awakening. As tomb-dwellers thier starting point is their base and they may Re-enforce by 3 if unmoved in this location.
Could start with: A1 M1 R1/2(3) T1 10/15 wounds. Actions: M,A / M,R / A / R,R .

superior regeneration abilities, but tied to a base

- Demons. The warpspawn. Regenerate 2 wounds in 2 turns, as banned creatures they have to wait a turn until they gain the re-enforced wounds ( ie Re-enforce each 2nd turn but +2 )
but wounds from SoB in "holy fury" mode cannot be regained ever so their stats may weaken.
Partial free movement, but their drawn to battles so they begin at the location of the first fight in turn 1.
May only move to another battle ( ie attacks happening ) in the following turns.
Could start with: A1/2 M* R* T1/2 10/10 wounds. Actions: M*, A (1) / M* / A (1) / M* , A (1,1) / A (1,1)

rather conjured than placed, they get banned but return. May return often still bound to their chaotic masters

I voted Dark Eldar.

I think the tau seem quite better than most of the other races.

The eldar in reserves thing seems a bit fuzzy.

A line would be nice, or at least a 7-8 ring.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Nope. If each starting location has, on average, 3 players, there's nowhere for an Eldar player to hide. Eldar will die within the first 3 turns simply because they're easy to kill, everybody else having at least twice the starting wounds.

Which encourages Eldar to initially find alliances. Maybe with...I dunno, Imperials or something?

Make the board twice the number of players, or start all of the non-Eldar players on end of the line, or start the Eldar off-board and let them choose when to come in, then maybe the Eldar have a chance to reinforce for a bit.

Yeah. Right. Do you realise that this will make Eldar losing virtually impossible? How are the Eldar supposed to be cornered by an enemy
if they have more than 25 something worlds to skip to? Especially if it's a lined board.

focusedfire wrote:@Manchu-Honestly, I like your orignal circular game board idea better.

IMO, should start a minimum number of 6 worlds and allow a world for every two races in games of 14 players or more.

I like this idea, however I am still in favour of a smaller fraction, perhaps a new world for every 3 races rounding up.

Idea for Tau Faction
*snip*

Tau never struck me as THAT vesatile.

In regards to what races we should accept next game, I think Dark Eldar were looked favourably upon last sign up. There was a fair amount of interest for them.

focusedfire wrote:@Manchu-Honestly, I like your orignal circular game board idea better.

IMO, should start a minimum number of 6 worlds and allow a world for every two races in games of 14 players or more.

Idea for Tau Faction
A 2 T 1 or 2 M 2* R 1 Start 10 Max 10
Move Shoot Move- The Tau may move(1) then take an action and move(1) but may not move (2) and take an action. All actions happen on the first move or no move for the Tau.
Examples:
a) move (1), attack (2)or(1,1), and move (1)
b) move (1), attack (2)or(1,1), re-enforce (1)
c) move (1), re-enforce (1), Move (1)
d) attack (2)or(1,1), re-enforce (1)
e) Attack (2)or(1,1)
f) Re-enforce (1)

Reinforce between moves is useless, it doesn't matter at all. It would be the same thing as moving 2 and reinforcing.


I also like the idea of a circular board. The reason is that a line will end in tears, as people get cornered quickly and people at the ends are isolated. The problem with a circular board is that when you only have 5 worlds, then move(*) is the same thing as move(2). Circular would be better, providing there are 6+ worlds.

Nightwatch wrote:


I also like the idea of a circular board. The reason is that a line will end in tears, as people get cornered quickly and people at the ends are isolated. The problem with a circular board is that when you only have 5 worlds, then move(*) is the same thing as move(2). Circular would be better, providing there are 6+ worlds.

Quoted due the overwhelming presence of Truth.

Nightwatch wrote:I also like the idea of a circular board. The reason is that a line will end in tears, as people get cornered quickly and people at the ends are isolated. The problem with a circular board is that when you only have 5 worlds, then move(*) is the same thing as move(2). Circular would be better, providing there are 6+ worlds.

Aye, quoted for truth.

My take on it: Clarify the Space Marines, of course. I don't like 6 or 7. I could live with 6, but 7 is bad. That leaves the Eldar too vulnerable. They'll have to flee for any form of combat for the first three or four days, especially the clusterfucks we get into. No, if you want to make Eldar more brittle, limit their ability to reinforce. Take away their ability to reinforce while attacking and they can't stay in any prolonged engagements, just like the fluff. Otherwise leave them exactly as they are now. This 'deepstriking' nonsense is overly-complicated.

Manchu wrote:@ff: Why do you like the circular board better? Also, the JSJ thing for Tau is okay in the sense that it captures the feel of their battlesuits. But this is at an interstellar army level. I'm not so sure JSJ really suits that as well. But I am still open to arguments in its favor at this point. I also don't like them being A2. In the original design, A2 was a SM prerogative with Nids only able to do it at the expense of maxing their reinforcement.

As to the circular board- When set at a minimum of 6 worlds +1 extra for every X armies beyond 12, it will create a movement based dynamic that encourages the political element of alliances. All in all it would just make the game more dynamic.


About the Tau, JSJ is how they fight in all arena's of battle according to what is described in their codex. The Tau eschew any form of attrition warfare because they realize that they don't have the numbers to pull it off against any of the races. They instead use hit and run style tactics, combined arms tactics, focal point attacks and manoeuvre warfare to disrupt/cripple their enemies abilty to wage war. Though the tactics may seem similar to Fabian tactics the onus is not on body counts but on removing key elements of their enemies command, logistics, and fire support capabilities. By their back story the entire army is supposed to move, shoot, and withdraw to a different location in a guerrilla-esque style of warfare. They are supposed to strike with overwhelming firepower and withdraw in a manner that leads the enemy deeper into their trap/killzone.

I think that I gave them the abilities that reflect their style by limiting their speed(May only attack an adjacent world), limting their numbers(May not attack, move, and re-enforce in the same turn and a re-enforce of only 1) and represented their firepower with A 2.

If they need trimming down to attack 1 then go ahead but I think that they will be to weak. Note- I am just making a case for the idea, please take it and balance as needed for your game. I have ideas but only you know what will fit your concept of the game.

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:I think the tau seem quite better than most of the other races.

Not really, just different. They wouldn't have the numbers or regenerative abilities of the other "move 1 then attack" armies, but it is just an idea, Please suggest a countering idea of what you would consider fitting. It will help manchu get a better idea of what the players would be comfortable with.

Emperors Faithful wrote:I like this idea, however I am still in favour of a smaller fraction, perhaps a new world for every 3 races rounding up.

The every three races would work also, now that I think about instead of just brainstorming the 1 world for every the armies ove 12 would work quite nicely. Well done EF.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Tau never struck me as THAT vesatile.

Not as versatile as they appear, just lots of explanation to point out that they would only be able to take an action on a world that is only 1 move away.

Nightwatch wrote:
Reinforce between moves is useless, it doesn't matter at all. It would be the same thing as moving 2 and reinforcing.


I also like the idea of a circular board. The reason is that a line will end in tears, as people get cornered quickly and people at the ends are isolated. The problem with a circular board is that when you only have 5 worlds, then move(*) is the same thing as move(2). Circular would be better, providing there are 6+ worlds.

I only had the re-enforce between moves to hammer the point of the Tau only being able to act on neighboring worlds as opposed to moving 2 and then acting. That portion could be dropped to indicate that the Tau are only supplied by a few worlds.

What do you think?

Okay, I'm hearing that most people want a Circular Board. I'm down with that.

DarkHound wrote:This 'deepstriking' nonsense is overly-complicated.

I'm not sure what you're referring to--you mean the Eldar starting off the Board? I don't think it needs to be that complicated. I kind of like the idea, actually. I would play it like this:

Eldar

A 1 T 1 M 1*/A R 1 Start 10 Max 10
Through The Webway: The enigmatic Eldar slip in and out of their Webway portals, attacking where they are least expected. Eldar factions may move from one World to one World per turn, disregarding the normal movement order. Additionally, Eldar factions start off of the Board. They may place themselves on any World of their choice on Turn 1, which placement counts as their movement for that turn. They may attack on the same turn as moving, either before or after moving. In order to reinforce, however, Eldar must move and not attack.

Move (1*) Attack (1)
Attack (1) Move (1*)
Move (1*) Reinforce (1)
Move (1*)
Attack (1)

I also don't get what's wrong with my Chaos fix. They'd be something like:

Chaos Space Marines

A 1 T 1 M 1/A R 1 Start 10 Max 15
Legions of the Warp: The predations of Chaos Space Marine warbands are aided both by the denizens and the deceptions of the Immaterium. Chaos Space Marine factions may attack on the same turn as moving, either before or after moving. They may reinforce on a move preceding an attack but not on one following an attack. Like most other factions, they may also reinforce on a turn that they do not attack.

Move (1) Attack (1) Reinforce (1)
Attack (1) Move (1)
Move (1) Reinforce (1)
Move (1)
Attack (1)

The reinforcement is supposed to be with daemons, I guess. So the Ruinous Powers are more generous to aggressors.

If there were rules for Dark Eldar, they would have to be just as fluid and just as fragile as Eldar (if not more so). Perhaps Start 5, Max 7/8?

I like this crippling idea, but I don't think it will work, as some players may not realise that they've been attacked by a DE player at some point, if they're only going off the previous post, not to mention that there might be some frustration at having to miss out a whole day or worse due to chain attacks. What about an attack that cripples the opponent for their next move, such as halving their attack/move/reinforce rounding up? To make it clear that the unit is crippled, a emoticon could be put beside it that turn.

There has been a fair amount of talk about Board size, with a lot of great suggestions. I think it should be something like:

The Board will consist of a number of Worlds equal to one third the number of players rounded down with a minimum of six. The Board's move order will be circular such that, if there are six Worlds labeled Alpha through Zeta, the distance between Alpha and Beta or between Zeta and Alpha is one space of movement.

Sounds good to me. A linear board probably would have ended in tears.

The only thing I'm worried about is the impossibility for some factions to kill one another other off in the event the make it to the finals. Say Guard v Guard, or Eldar v ...anyone really.

A tie is decided by who has the most wounds remaining when the tie came into effect. If the tied factions had the same number of wounds when they became tied, then the tie stands.

So if the tied factions are tied...it's a tie?

Emperors Faithful wrote:So if the tied factions are tied...it's a tie?

Yes its fluffy it happened in the blood angels codex with the necrons lol.

This Strat Survivor is infinitely better than Codex McBatnipples. I'll assume that the sides either fight on forever or erect a fairground and dance in circles for many years to come.


Necrons

Start 10, Max 20
Move 1, Attack 2 (two poissible targets or focus on 1)
Move 1, Reinforce 2
Move 1, Attack 1, reinforce 1

How does that sound? Something that moves slowly, but is definitely hard to kill off.

Of the points under discussion:

1. I prefer a Linear board. It's easier to explain, and it makes enhanced Move more valuable. It also forces more strategy precisely the ends are harder to get to/from.

2. Based on the direction Eldar are going, I probably won't play them in future iterations of this game. Too weak, no toughness. Of the revised Eldar / CSM, the Eldar are completely unplayable but the CSM are possiby playable. If CSM get nerfed, I'd play Orks or Nids, whichever faction is larger.

3. 1had clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. As I succinctly demonstrated to Manchu via PM, 3 SM auto-win vs 3 Eldar starting at W5.

4. I expect (and expected from the start) Eldar not to win this game. The only question in my mind is whether the Eldar outlast the Imperals.

How about:

Tau Empire
A 2 T 2 M 1 R 1/2 Start 10 Max 20
For The Greater Good: Able to coordinate the most complex military actions with zealous efficiency, the Tau pose a steadily growing threat to any who oppose their Greater Good. All Tau factions begin play on the same World. Tau factions may reinforce on turns in which they attack but not on turns in which they move--unless they move to a World where another Tau faction is already present. In this case, they may reinforce by two rather than one.

Attack (1, 1) Reinforce (1)
Attack (1) Reinforce (1)
Attack (1, 1)
Attack (1)
Move (1)
Move (1 to a World where another Tau faction is present) Reinforce (2)

JohnHwangDD wrote:
1. I prefer a Linear board. It's easier to explain, and it makes enhanced Move more valuable. It also forces more strategy precisely the ends are harder to get to/from.

As it makes the possibility of ever getting close to Eldar utterly impossible. Also ensure that no one is too bothered about an alliance due to the fact that everyone is moving to either one end or the other.

2. Based on the direction Eldar are going, I probably won't play them in future iterations of this game. Too weak, no toughness. Of the revised Eldar / CSM, the Eldar are completely unplayable but the CSM are possiby playable. If CSM get nerfed, I'd play Orks or Nids, whichever faction is larger.

Eldar are unplayable? I'm more than certain that they are an easy kill in a 5 World map early on, but as the game continues they go unnocticed and very tricksy. Unless you'd have them at Str 20 and Attack 3.

3. 1had clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. As I succinctly demonstrated to Manchu via PM, 3 SM auto-win vs 3 Eldar starting at W5.

Really no need for personal attacks here. And SM don't last long at all in this game either (in fact they're likely to last shorter), they hit too hard and are too much of a threat to others. Hence the gang ups on them. Eldar aren't seen as such an obvious threat.

4. I expect (and expected from the start) Eldar not to win this game. The only question in my mind is whether the Eldar outlast the Imperals.

This is a bit of an obsession with you isn't it?

JohnHwangDD wrote:2. Based on the direction Eldar are going, I probably won't play them in future iterations of this game. Too weak, no toughness. Of the revised Eldar / CSM, the Eldar are completely unplayable but the CSM are possiby playable. If CSM get nerfed, I'd play Orks or Nids, whichever faction is larger.

Latest proposal has Eldar at Start 10 Max 10.

Having them with the same Start as SM doesn't make sense to me, but neither is having them at Start 5. I'd go for a Start 8 Max 10, with any DE introduced being weaker at Star 5 Max 10.

Manchu wrote: All Tau factions begin play on the same World.

This makes sense, a good strong start.

Tau factions may reinforce on turns in which they attack but not on turns in which they move--unless they move to a World where another Tau faction is already present. In this case, they may reinforce by two rather than one.

This isn't as great in my humble opinion. It makes the Tau far too dependent on each other, and then there's the problem at the end of whether this applies when the factions are attacking each other.

@EF: Starting together and the reinforcement rule hopefully gives high incentive to ally among Tau. Their special rule would of course apply at the end of the game, even if only Tau were active. The final turns really come down to betrayals. You want to keep your wounds up so as to win in the event of a first-level tie (where there are two left that cannot seem to kill one another, as described above). The Tau are extremely xenophobic--just not in the Imperial sense. In their own way they are the most racist faction in 40k. Although they tolerate biological diversity, they insist on having one homogenous culture--maybe even right down to the thoughts going through individual heads. (At least the Imperium can tolerate some cultural diversity among humans.) With these proposed rules, it will be a matter of seeing who goes "Farsight" first.

Plus, I don't think a faction with A2T2 that can reinforce on the attack is really dependent on anyone. The bonus reinforce is only on a move (no attack) turn and really just serves as an incentive to coordinate with other Tau players (if there are any). You don't have to be actually allied with those players to reap the bonus, however.

The problem I see with them is that if there is no other Tau player, why not just pick IG? IG have one more attack on one more target and can reinforce by 2 on a move while reinforcing by 1 on the attack. Ugh. Give me a minute.

Manchu wrote:How about:Tau Empire
A 2 T 2 M 1 R 1/2 Start 10 Max 20
For The Greater Good: Tau are extremely social creatures able to coordinate even complex military actions with zealous efficiency. As such, they pose a small but growing threat to any who oppose Tau'Va. All Tau factions begin play on the same World. Tau factions may reinforce on turns in which they attack but not on turns in which they move--unless they move to a World where another Tau faction is already present. In this case, they may reinforce by two rather than one.

Two problems right off.

1) Max 20-While I understand the growing empire concept that your advocating, it makes the Tau into Xenos Guard Light. It is a personal thing but I have fought that concept at every turn. The Tau live and die by their elites, Something the IG does not do. The Tau are also a lower model count army and I would like to see their tech and mobility expressed more than how fast they are reproducing.Make them max 10 or maybe 15.

They should have a max close to what sisters would have. Actually Tau and sisters could be templates for similar amies that use force multipliers but move and attack differently.

2)If they can only move (1) then let them attack. If nothing else, the Tau should be able to attack on the move.


As to your Gameboard rules, I think that they are spot on.

Also, I have no problems with stalemates. They are a very real part of war.


BTW, I like EF's Necrons. They might need a little tweak but I think that they would be playable as he posted them.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:
1. I prefer a Linear board. It's easier to explain, and it makes enhanced Move more valuable. It also forces more strategy precisely the ends are harder to get to/from.

As it makes the possibility of ever getting close to Eldar utterly impossible.

Enemies don't ever need to close on Eldar - they can simply reinforce to a point beyond which Eldar can't hurt them, while having sufficient Attack potential that Eldar dare not attack, either.

2. Based on the direction Eldar are going, I probably won't play them in future iterations of this game. Too weak, no toughness. Of the revised Eldar / CSM, the Eldar are completely unplayable but the CSM are possiby playable. If CSM get nerfed, I'd play Orks or Nids, whichever faction is larger.

Eldar are unplayable?

I'm more than certain that they are an easy kill in a 5 World map early on, but as the game continues they go unnocticed and very tricksy.

The latest Eldar are A1 -or- R1, completely unplayable in a game with default A2 or R2.

With ff out, clearly, they haven't been unnoticed.

3. 1had clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. As I succinctly demonstrated to Manchu via PM, 3 SM auto-win vs 3 Eldar starting at W5.

Really no need for personal attacks here. And SM don't last long at all in this game either (in fact they're likely to last shorter), they hit too hard and are too much of a threat to others. Hence the gang ups on them.

Eldar aren't seen as such an obvious threat.

He's said something foolish without thinking, and I'm merely pointing that out. S2 M2 SM are dangerous, and do need to be removed by the M1 armies, because it simplifies their game planning.

Being A1, Eldar aren't much of a threat - indeed, if there weren't 4 Eldar players, they'd even worse off.

4. I expect (and expected from the start) Eldar not to win this game. The only question in my mind is whether the Eldar outlast the Imperals.

This is a bit of an obsession with you isn't it?

Not really. I did a quick army analysis at the start of the game and concluded that Eldar were designed as a weaker faction in the game. However, with 3 other Eldar, I thought that a 4th (matching the Imp total) might tip them into something other than an auto-loss. I was wrong, and at 3 Eldar remaining, with most other factions all above 10, I don't think things look good for the pointy ears.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Having them with the same Start as SM doesn't make sense to me, but neither is having them at Start 5. I'd go for a Start 8 Max 10, with any DE introduced being weaker at Star 5 Max 10.

Start 8 might be playable for Eldar, but they'd need to hit harder or to make up the difference. Or have pop up attacks or something.

For a Start 5 to be at all viable, rules-wise, the army needs to be amazing. Giant slayers. Otherwise, any 3 armies simply decide to pop them, and it's "good game".

Revised, taking ff's comments into account:

Tau Empire

A 2/1 T 2/*1 M 1/A R 1 Start 10 Max 15
For The Greater Good: Able to coordinate complex military actions with versatility, the Tau pose a steadily growing threat to any who oppose their Greater Good. Tau factions may attack on the same turn as moving (but may not reinforce on a turn in which they attack). When doing so, they are treated as A 1 T 1. If they attack without moving, they are treated as A 2 T 2. When more than one Tau faction is present on the same World, all Tau factions may act as if either A 2 or T 2 or A 2 T 1.

Attack (1, 1)
Attack (1) Move (1)
Move (1) Attack (1)
Move (1) Reinforce (1)
Move (1)
Attack (1)
if another Tau faction present at the same World: Attack (2)

These Tau are versatile but somewhat fragile, working at their peak when they work together. The dual mode mechanic is supposed to be like employing Mont'Ka or Kauyon.

@John: Again, latest Eldar proposal has them at Start 10 Max 10--same as Marines. Just like Marines, Eldar need to be organized and busy at the beginning of the game. Choosing where they come in will help that even more. I think you're underestimating how dangerous Eldar are (even currently!) early in the game--which is exactly why Saim Hann was hit by many others. You are right to point out that they get less dangerous over time, whereas IG and Nids can grow to titanic proportions. As such, IG and Nids should be the Eldar's "natural enemies" as it were--and, by the same analysis, SM should be their "natural allies." Or the closest thing to it, outside of one another.

@Manchu: On Dakka, Eldar have no real allies.

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Manchu: On Dakka, Eldar have no real allies.

I really love them and am trying to find a way that they can be balanced and dangerous.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Enemies don't ever need to close on Eldar - they can simply reinforce to a point beyond which Eldar can't hurt them, while having sufficient Attack potential that Eldar dare not attack, either.

You are assuming that Eldar will be ganged up on immediatley. This tactic is only playable towards the end, until then there are simply too many people to concentrate on a method that will render Eldar impotent.

With ff out, clearly, they haven't been unnoticed.
*snip*
Being A1, Eldar aren't much of a threat - indeed, if there weren't 4 Eldar players, they'd even worse off.

I imagined that the Eldars strength would be their very appearence of Weakness, making them the perfect mediator to turn the other factions against each other. That's what Eldar do isn't it? The only reason this hasn't worked here is becuase there were 4 players to start with, the most out of any other faction.

Not really. I did a quick army analysis at the start of the game and concluded that Eldar were designed as a weaker faction in the game. However, with 3 other Eldar, I thought that a 4th (matching the Imp total) might tip them into something other than an auto-loss. I was wrong, and at 3 Eldar remaining, with most other factions all above 10, I don't think things look good for the pointy ears.

Eldar started out with the most players than any other faction. Even now they are breaking even with Imperials (sorry ff, but I can't expect to you hold on for much longer). It's hardly doom and gloom for them. (And certainly would have been impossible if not for the swift and unexpected alliance with the Orks.

Start 8 might be playable for Eldar, but they'd need to hit harder or to make up the difference. Or have pop up attacks or something.

Unlikely, as there is little to suggest that Eldar are worthy of even 2 attacks, which puts them on equal footing with SM. Perhaps 2 attacks, but they MUST be spread out to 2 different targets (similar to IG).

focusedfire wrote:
They should have a max close to what sisters would have. Actually Tau and sisters could be templates for similar amies that use force multipliers but move and attack differently.

Not a bad idea.

BTW, I like EF's Necrons. They might need a little tweak but I think that they would be playable as he posted them.

It's quite clearly just a skeleton design, rushed enough as it is. I couldn't think of anything to set them truly apart, and I wasn't sure whether a special rule like the Tau Reinforce or Eldar Move should be demanded. Perhaps (due to their awaking) each Necron CANNOT start in the same World as another Necron army. Although that's hardly an advantage. *shrug* Maybe you can think of something.

BTW.

Dark Eldar Special Rule: The Enslaver
Dark Eldar strike without warning, pity or mercy. Dark Eldar raiders are the epitome of swiftness, one might as well catch a flea with all five fingers as try to draw the Dark Eldar in combat on anything other than their own terms. When a Dark Eldar force attacks, their victim cannot retaliate the following turn. This power may not be used on the same enemy twice in a row, as this draws the raiders into a battle of attrition that their prey adjusts to all too quickly. The shocked enemy may not attack the Dark Eldar player, but may move/reinforce/attack other targets as normal.

It allows the Dark Eldar to hunt down a chosen enemy without fear of retaliation, but leaves them open to an attack from other force. This could encourage an alliance where one player could act as bait as the other waits nearby ready to strike...I also added the rule that it can't be used twice in a row so as to avoid "Chaina DE strikes". What do you think?

Manchu wrote:With these proposed rules, it will be a matter of seeing who goes "Farsight" first.

It's not a problem if there are only 2, maybe 3, Tau players. Anymore and that means a Tau side that will assureadely dominate the field.

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Manchu: On Dakka, Eldar have no real allies.

And Nids are 'swarming' with them? Pun intended.

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Manchu: On Dakka, Eldar have no real allies.

ff


@ Manchu- Maybe set the base dynamic where horde armies are attack(1) or attack (2) Targets (2) but have a high Max (20?) or (30?) and middle Re-enforcement of (2).
You could make a rule where any Horde army that reaches its max and remains there for a turn without suffering a hit may split their faction into two halves. I think that this would be good for 'Nids, Orks or maybe IG.

Make their numbers their strength, but require them:
1) to not move in order to reinforce(IG)
2)to attack in order to re-enforce(Orks)
3)to attack and move in order to re-enforce('Nids).

Doing this would make it to where the smaller armies are balanced with A (2) maybe (3)? and superior movement.


As to your Tau and Chaos proposals, they are good for the game as is but if the hordes get revised then they would need a boost.

What do you think of these ideas?

@EF: I think I am posting too fast for you!

The Tau "help each other" rules makes sense for another faction--namely, the Orks. Here's a proposed change for them:

Orks

A 1/2 T 1 M 1/A R 2 Start 10 Max 20
Waaaaagh!: Orks gather strength with momentum, fighting wherever they go, and become especially savage when gathered together. Ork factions may attack on the same turn as they move, but may only attack after moving. Ork factions may not reinforce on the same turn as attacking. When more than one Ork faction is present on the same World, Orks are treated as A 2 T 2.

Move(1) Reinforce(2)
Move(1) Attack(1)
Attack(1)
if more than one Ork faction is on the same World (moved to)
Move (1) Attack (1, 1)
Attack (1, 1)

@ff: I think the hordes (IG, Orks, and Nids) need the least tinkering. I think revised Eldar and Chaos are pretty good, too. I have been worred that SM are getting a bit of the shaft but, as John points out, their A2T1 is very dangerous--only the Nids can do it and they sacrifice their maximum reinforcement to do so . . . plus, they are pretty slow and cannot reinforce on the move to boot (i.e., prefer if the food comes to them). I don't like the Tau doing that, either, and will probably revise again to:

Tau Empire

A 2/1 T 2/*1 M 1/A R 1 Start 10 Max 15
For The Greater Good: Able to coordinate complex military actions with versatility, the Tau pose a steadily growing threat to any who oppose their Greater Good. All Tau faction start on the same World. Tau factions may attack on the same turn as moving (but may not reinforce on a turn in which they attack). When doing so, they are treated as A 1 T 1. If they attack without moving, they are treated as A 2 T 2. If a Tau faction moves without attacking to a World where another Tau faction is already present the moving faction may reinforce two rather than one.

Attack (1, 1)
Attack (1) Move (1)
Move (1) Attack (1)
Move (1) Reinforce (1)
Move (1)
Attack (1)
Move (1) Reinforce (2), if another Tau faction is present at the World moved to

As I see it, Eldar and SM should be the most dangerous in the early game. IG and Nids have the potential to be late game monsters. CSM, Tau (as written here), and Orks would be strongest in the middle turns--in that order (so Orks would be most dangerous as it got to the end of the middle turns). Finally, for tonight, I am not totally convinced that SM shouldn't be able to JSJ, strafe, or whatever you want to call it. The final nail is not yet in that coffin.

Early Game <---Eldar---Space Marines---Chaos Space Marines---Tau Empire---Orks---Imperial Guard---Tyranids---> Late Game

As time goes on, alliances with late gamers like Orks and IG (maybe even Tau) get more and more important to Eldar and Space Marines. Nids never really need a partner, with the possible exception of when everyone else agrees to starve them to death. Even then, they are a powerful road block to factions that cannot bypass them. Soooo . . . basically everyone except Eldar and SM.

Let me also say that we haven't come to the end of the discussion on having a Linear rather than Circular Board. The Linear Board makes movement much more interesting, I think, and could even let alliances mark out territories. It might allow some cool fortress building and, as John would agree, make the Eldar (and eventually the Dark Eldar) very powerful allies. I am also toying with idea of allowing Chaos to treat the Board as a ring and everyone else treat it as a line.

Makes sense, how about a rule where under no circumstances are Ork players allowed to post or reply to PMs. Due to them beings orks.

So Tau can only attack Twice if they remain stationary? Sounds fair enough.

What happens when there are two Tau factions and one enemy? Is the Tau firepower suddenly halved or do they have to attack one another?

Let me sleep on it and I'll be a better sounding board.

Later

The same goes for IG. They don't HAVE to use both attack options...unless someone has finally decided to go Farsight on them.

I'm going to vote for Dark Eldar becuase there seemed to be a fair amount (1-2? ) of people interested at the beginning of the test match.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Makes sense, how about a rule where under no circumstances are Ork players allowed to post or reply to PMs. Due to them beings orks.

This makes me a sad panda.

:(

Emperors Faithful wrote:You are assuming that Eldar will be ganged up on immediatley. This tactic is only playable towards the end, until then there are simply too many people to concentrate on a method that will render Eldar impotent.

With a max 10, Eldar can be ganged at any time.

I imagined that the Eldars strength would be their very appearence of Weakness, making them the perfect mediator to turn the other factions against each other. That's what Eldar do isn't it?

The only reason this hasn't worked here is becuase there were 4 players to start with, the most out of any other faction.

It's more than just "appearance"...

4 is the same as Imperials.

And certainly would have been impossible if not for the swift and unexpected alliance with the Orks.

What alliance? Orks have been hitting Eldars, too.

[quoteUnlikely, as there is little to suggest that Eldar are worthy of even 2 attacks, which puts them on equal footing with SM.

Eldar will not be getting Max 15. There is simply no justification for it. Their gimmick is being unpredictable/predicting and manipulating what others will do. John, why do you think revised Eldar are more vulnerable then SM (assuming you do think so)? If anything, Eldar are tougher thanks to their movement. They simply cannot hit as hard. My planned revision of SM has them being more predictable--will post tonight.

focusedfire wrote:What happens when there are two Tau factions and one enemy? Is the Tau firepower suddenly halved or do they have to attack one another?

Let me sleep on it and I'll be a better sounding board.

Later

I was actually thinking about this: the problem may arise that two Tau players are the only ones left: do they still benefit from this?

Also, the rules don't specify movement. Can they gain this attack bonus even after they move, or do they have to already be there?

I changed the attack bonus back to a reinforce bonus, so it is contingent upon movement (like most reinforcement). But the general question stands: "do 'help each other rules' only work when there is an alliance--and thus not work when the factions in question must fight each other (say, at the end of a game)?" The answer is no. A good example is an idea I had for Sisters. Sisters are A2 T2 normally but when they are below Start wounds OR on the same World as either IG or SM factions, they are A2 T1 (and, unlike Tau cannot choose which). In the situation of being allied with those Imp Forces, this represents Sisters fulfilling their support role. In the case of fighting against them, this represents Sisters stamping out heresy.

Help each other rules should be inherent to factions.

That is, any Eldar should be able to reinforce any other Eldar, and any Ork should reinforce any other Ork.

This strengthens faction play.

Manchu wrote:Eldar will not be getting Max 15. There is simply no justification for it.

Their gimmick is being unpredictable/predicting and manipulating what others will do.

John, why do you think revised Eldar are more vulnerable then SM (assuming you do think so)? If anything, Eldar are tougher thanks to their movement. They simply cannot hit as hard.

My planned revision of SM has them being more predictable--will post tonight.

That's debatable.

That's the player, not the army.

Max 10 is more vulnerable than 15. M2 is a enough when everybody else is M1. And that movement is only really useful when the number of players is much less than the number of locations.

OK

JohnHwangDD wrote:This strengthens faction play.

But is that actually good for the game? I think it'd be better not to reward faction play to, if not encourage, atleast allow mixing the alliances up. If you gain an advantage from staying with your own faction, there is no reason not to; there won't be any betrayals, or alliances based on placement.

Wait... are you bringing in Tau, Dark Eldar, or both?

I would hate to see DE blown off.

Proposed rule, just throwing it out there, from my d&d time:

Attacks of opportunity:
If a faction moves through an occupied sector, ONE of the armies inside of the sector may automatically deal one damage to the faction moving through if the defender posts it within one hour of the attackers turn. This only applies to moving through, not into.

Eldar would ignore it since they teleport

That would put the slight hinderance on the space marines, which look like the kings of game one.

It will also give Eldar a perk, which is what all the eldar players want.

Thoughts? Flaming?

Edit-Oops

Ork Waaagh!
The warboss instills fearlessness into his boyz, and calls a waagh. The boyz surge forward with renewed vigor!

Once per game, (maybe two-three times) Orks may increase their movement by one for the duration of the day (or two?).

Just a thought.

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:Wait... are you bringing in Tau, Dark Eldar, or both?

I would hate to see DE blown off.

Yes, that would be a horrible visual Make sure your browser filters are set to prevent such and you should be ok.

I think I have a solution for Eldar:

Masters of the Webway: Eldar factions begin the game off-Board and may be placed on any World of their choice on Turn 1. They may then attack once. This counts as their entire turn for Turn 1. Subsequently, Eldar may move then attack then move each turn. These moves are not bound by normal movement order: Eldar factions may move to any World.

Manchu wrote:I think I have a solution for Eldar:

I like it. Simple, yet effective.

DarkHound wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:This strengthens faction play.

But is that actually good for the game? I think it'd be better not to reward faction play to, if not encourage, atleast allow mixing the alliances up. If you gain an advantage from staying with your own faction, there is no reason not to; there won't be any betrayals, or alliances based on placement.

QFT.

Faction play leads to bad feelings.
I'd prefer player based alliances.

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:Proposed rule, just throwing it out there, from my d&d time:

Attacks of opportunity:
If a faction moves through an occupied sector, ONE of the armies inside of the sector may automatically deal one damage to the faction moving through if the defender posts it within one hour of the attackers turn. This only applies to moving through, not into.

Eldar would ignore it since they teleport

That would put the slight hinderance on the space marines, which look like the kings of game one.

It will also give Eldar a perk, which is what all the eldar players want.

Thoughts? Flaming?

The D&D rule isn't bad if everyone can move 2 or more.
Without the final settings of the new faction, let me assume its SM only that get hit.
Q1: May every local "defender" choose to do 1 wound?
Q2: is it balanced to use a 1 hour restriction in a game with participants of different timezones?
Q3: You mean the dead kings like Erasoketa?

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:Ork Waaagh!
The warboss instills fearlessness into his boyz, and calls a waagh. The boyz surge forward with renewed vigor!

Once per game, (maybe two-three times) Orks may increase their movement by one for the duration of the day (or two?).

Just a thought.

Do they have to debate who's waaghboss? Maybe suffer a wound ( representing the 'discussion' ) to start the waagh?

I don't expect any of these to be implemented I just wanted to post my thoughts.

Personally I don't like these faction alliance benefits. I think it limits the alliance options and backstabbing. there will be no surprise that all the orks stick together for example because not doing so weakens them..

I also feel like everybody has too many wounds. And attacks are easy to brush off. Maybe chaos is just over powered but when I am attacked once I'm not even concerned because next turn it will be irrelevant. Similarly I attack IG and he can reinforce 2. Equaling exactly nothing. Maybe its all about strategy and alliances but there is a reason the glass cannons are dying first. Anyone that can reinforce 2 is very hard to make a dent in.

Overall it feels like armies of rabbits fighting one another. If it were me I would raise everyones' attack by 1. This would mean any attack would be a serious threat, the game would move faster players dying quicker and random attacks nothing to sniff at. At current speed this game will last a long time, Manchu wanted two turns a day but due to time differences and life it's not practical. But raising everyones attack would achieve the same thing.

Thoughts?

Shaman wrote:I don't expect any of these to be implemented I just wanted to post my thoughts.

Personally I don't like these faction alliance benefits. I think it limits the alliance options and backstabbing. there will be no surprise that all the orks stick together for example because not doing so weakens them..

I also feel like everybody has too many wounds. And attacks are easy to brush off. Maybe chaos is just over powered but when I am attacked once I'm not even concerned because next turn it will be irrelevant. Similarly I attack IG and he can reinforce 2. Equaling exactly nothing. Maybe its all about strategy and alliances but there is a reason the glass cannons are dying first. Anyone that can reinforce 2 is very hard to make a dent in.

Overall it feels like armies of rabbits fighting one another. If it were me I would raise everyones' attack by 1. This would mean any attack would be a serious threat, the game would move faster players dying quicker and random attacks nothing to sniff at. At current speed this game will last a long time, Manchu wanted two turns a day but due to time differences and life it's not practical. But raising everyones attack would achieve the same thing.

Thoughts?

You'll notice that Saim-Hann isn't doing very well. The reason is not that it's Eldar, but rather that everyone ganged up and hit hard. I think we will see a continuation of these sort of tactics. To make an attack effective, you only need to get enough people that more wounds are inflicted than the army can recover in one turn. In fact, I'd say that Eldar have the highest chance of escaping this kind of attack, because they can run away the farthest, with no restrictions. Of course, this would be magnified in a 6 world board.

Shaman wrote:Personally I don't like these faction alliance benefits. I think it limits the alliance options and backstabbing.

I also feel like everybody has too many wounds. And attacks are easy to brush off.

Overall it feels like armies of rabbits fighting one another. If it were me I would raise everyones' attack by 1.

OK, then generalize it so that any army can reinforce any other army by one.

No, the issue is that too may players are reinforcing instead of attacking. Why? Because attacks are strong in this game, so people are trying to hide and escape notice.

Rising attack to 3 average? Why not simply have everybody start at 5 and attack 3?
____

Nightwatch wrote:You'll notice that Saim-Hann isn't doing very well. The reason is not that it's Eldar, but rather that everyone ganged up and hit hard. I think we will see a continuation of these sort of tactics. To make an attack effective, you only need to get enough people that more wounds are inflicted than the army can recover in one turn. In fact, I'd say that Eldar have the highest chance of escaping this kind of attack, because they can run away the farthest, with no restrictions. Of course, this would be magnified in a 6 world board.

On this board, there isn't really anywhere for the Eldar going to run to. If it were 7 points on a line, I could see it. But not like things are right now.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:You'll notice that Saim-Hann isn't doing very well. The reason is not that it's Eldar, but rather that everyone ganged up and hit hard. I think we will see a continuation of these sort of tactics. To make an attack effective, you only need to get enough people that more wounds are inflicted than the army can recover in one turn. In fact, I'd say that Eldar have the highest chance of escaping this kind of attack, because they can run away the farthest, with no restrictions. Of course, this would be magnified in a 6 world board.

On this board, there isn't really anywhere for the Eldar going to run to. If it were 7 points on a line, I could see it. But not like things are right now.

I agree. 5 points in a ring do make the Eldar less likely to survive. 7 points on a line would make them too powerful and kill everyone else.

You raise some good points, Shaman, which have also troubled me. I don't like how long a game might currently take. Of course, I would have gone after the potential monsters first. Overall, this game assumes players will actually communicate with each other and that takes time. I am not keen to up everyone's attack as a fix at this point. I would also like to point out that the current faction rules work against fellow Ork and Tau as much as they work for them. It doesn't really limit anyone's choices. I have spotted a problem with "Masters of the Webway"--it makes Eldar basically immune to Nids and IG. I'm not sure if this is such a terrible problem, however. Should force both factions to reach out to others, although this not what I really wanted for Nids. Comments on this, if you please.

Manchu wrote:You raise some good points, Shaman, which have also troubled me. I don't like how long a game might currently take. Of course, I would have gone after the potential monsters first. Overall, this game assumes players will actually communicate with each other and that takes time. I am not keen to up everyone's attack as a fix at this point. I would also like to point out that the current faction rules work against fellow Ork and Tau as much as they work for them. It doesn't really limit anyone's choices. I have spotted a problem with "Masters of the Webway"--it makes Eldar basically immune to Nids and IG. I'm not sure if this is such a terrible problem, however. Should force both factions to reach out to others, although this not what I really wanted for Nids. Comments on this, if you please.

I agree, Nids should be able to function competently without alliances. It won't work, and I think the game is pretty good as it is right now.

There are too few worlds, which needs changing. The game length isn't really possible to fix, as we're playing internationally. Just leave it alone and there will be no problems, though some people might get bored.

Manchu wrote:it makes Eldar basically immune to Nids and IG.

How so? If Eldar want to attack either of them, they'll be counterattacked.

Manchu wrote:I think I have a solution for Eldar:

Masters of the Webway: Eldar factions begin the game off-Board and may be placed on any World of their choice on Turn 1. They may then attack once. This counts as their entire turn for Turn 1. Subsequently, Eldar may move then attack then move each turn. These moves are not bound by normal movement order: Eldar factions may move to any World.

M* , A , M*

vs

M1 or
A1

IMO

Nightwatch wrote:

You'll notice that Saim-Hann isn't doing very well. The reason is not that it's Eldar, but rather that everyone ganged up and hit hard. I think we will see a continuation of these sort of tactics. To make an attack effective, you only need to get enough people that more wounds are inflicted than the army can recover in one turn. In fact, I'd say that Eldar have the highest chance of escaping this kind of attack, because they can run away the farthest, with no restrictions. Of course, this would be magnified in a 6 world board.

I believe you are wrong. Saim Hann was targeted because it has low wounds and can only reinforce 1. I targeted black templars in the beginning for similar reasons. These armies can get randomly attacked and then become very weak. Blood in the water so to speak. It is not the same for the larger wound armies they can easily recover from random attacks.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
OK, then generalize it so that any army can reinforce any other army by one.

No, the issue is that too may players are reinforcing instead of attacking. Why? Because attacks are strong in this game, so people are trying to hide and escape notice.

Rising attack to 3 average? Why not simply have everybody start at 5 and attack 3?

On alliance benefits, I guess I am just against alliances having any advantage other then mutual cooperation. I think it will make the game more defensive. "Too many players are reinforcing..." Thats my point. hiding and escaping notice is boring. Your final suggestion at the end is extreme.

Manchu wrote:You raise some good points, Shaman, which have also troubled me. I don't like how long a game might currently take. Of course, I would have gone after the potential monsters first. Overall, this game assumes players will actually communicate with each other and that takes time. I am not keen to up everyone's attack as a fix at this point. I would also like to point out that the current faction rules work against fellow Ork and Tau as much as they work for them. It doesn't really limit anyone's choices. I have spotted a problem with "Masters of the Webway"--it makes Eldar basically immune to Nids and IG. I'm not sure if this is such a terrible problem, however. Should force both factions to reach out to others, although this not what I really wanted for Nids. Comments on this, if you please.

Yeah perhaps it is too much. I just think that the game relies too much on people communicating and following orders and whenever anything goes wrong, nothing happens. For example 3 CSM would be required to whittle an IG player down, thats serious planning to just whittle one player down not obliterate, whittle. I have no doubt this game will end in a stalemate if the final players play smart. I probably wouldn't play smart and perish but I am unlikely to make it to the end.

1hadhq wrote:

DarkHound wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:This strengthens faction play.

But is that actually good for the game? I think it'd be better not to reward faction play to, if not encourage, atleast allow mixing the alliances up. If you gain an advantage from staying with your own faction, there is no reason not to; there won't be any betrayals, or alliances based on placement.

QFT.

Faction play leads to bad feelings.
I'd prefer player based alliances.

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:Proposed rule, just throwing it out there, from my d&d time:

Attacks of opportunity:
If a faction moves through an occupied sector, ONE of the armies inside of the sector may automatically deal one damage to the faction moving through if the defender posts it within one hour of the attackers turn. This only applies to moving through, not into.

Eldar would ignore it since they teleport

That would put the slight hinderance on the space marines, which look like the kings of game one.

It will also give Eldar a perk, which is what all the eldar players want.

Thoughts? Flaming?

The D&D rule isn't bad if everyone can move 2 or more.
Without the final settings of the new faction, let me assume its SM only that get hit.
Q1: May every local "defender" choose to do 1 wound?
Q2: is it balanced to use a 1 hour restriction in a game with participants of different timezones?
Q3: You mean the dead kings like Erasoketa?

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:Ork Waaagh!
The warboss instills fearlessness into his boyz, and calls a waagh. The boyz surge forward with renewed vigor!

Once per game, (maybe two-three times) Orks may increase their movement by one for the duration of the day (or two?).

Just a thought.

Do they have to debate who's waaghboss? Maybe suffer a wound ( representing the 'discussion' ) to start the waagh?

Q1: Right in there, only one army can do it.
Q2: Sure, mostly because there are alot of defenders in the sectors after the beginning turns.
Q3: That was just because he was trying to crusade.

Maybe, take one wound, from a leader figure dying, then they have an extra movement for two game turns?

Right now, as it is, eldar need some boosting, the marines will chase them down, bludgeoning them, while the guard or other allys wait to blast them as they pass by.

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:

Right now, as it is, eldar need some boosting, the marines will chase them down, bludgeoning them, while the guard or other allies wait to blast them as they pass by.

You did notice the eldar put a price on the Space marines heads, PRE-game.
Was there a choice to keep the weapons stowed away? I think so, without the bet on our heads.
Marines won't stop chasing whatever endangers their precious geneseed.

There's already a request to let him run and escape ( for some time ). Would that change anything?
Could delay my next move and wait for the decisions of others in this case.
(would also improve the post with proper formatting)
IDK, if a group has only "kill da spase marinez" to say, why should the SM listen?
Why should SM not hunt down those who cannot imagine the SM as possible allies?
Is there a reason to think IG has a natural alliance with SM and lump them into 1 faction, without considering the players as independent persons, able to have their own goals ? Isn't it too easy to generalize?
Orkz and chaos do benefit from the "blood in the water" as Shaman put it.
Why should they forfeit their chance to catch a faster faction on the run?

The Eldar can have their piece of pie, but don't expect to grab the pie, run away with it and eat it alone.....

Manchu's edits to M*/A/M* is already a boost at the coming greater playfield.

No mercy, put him out of his misery.

1hadhq wrote:You did notice the eldar put a price on the Space marines heads, PRE-game.

Indeed, but then what came first?

EF started with an anti-Eldars post, it's perfectly fair to respond in kind with an anti-Imps post.

It's really funny, but in these games, you simply can't spell "selective memory", "incomplete information" or "hypocrite" without "1hadhq"...

The only thing keeping Imps from allying with xenos and traitors are preconceived notions that have little place on the tabeltop and less space here.

EF's was a jab yours was an outright challenge. I can see why you responded that way though.

I was also thinking about a rule to make things more killy.. just a thought..

Desperate Measures

Attacker may inflict an extra wound on one target but loses one wound in the process. In addition the attacker may make no reinforcement in the turn of the attack or the turn following it.

So it gives you that extra punch to finish some one off but leaves you vulnerable for a turn after.

Thoughts?

Though I seem to be the only one who wants things to die quicker. lol.

Oh, John, Such friendly words to adress me.... I am soooo happy.

Maybe there is a difference to this little gem:

JohnHwangDD:
OK, BS, there are 4 Imp heads to take as trophies. I think Xenos can take more Imp heads (skulls) than CSM.

Or Orkzes, for that matter.

What say you to a little competition here?

Aiming for fewer Eldar or zer0 IG or SM. Not really the best way to keep it calm.

And why did Erasoketa have to suffer from EF's post?
EF isn't the spokesman of every possible player of SM , IG or any other faction of the IoM present in a game.
Its still your idea of a monolithic block of Imperialists that stands between a free choice of all players and your beloved black&white scheme of things.

Shaman wrote:
Though I seem to be the only one who wants things to die quicker. lol.

No its ok. Total annihilation is acceptable as outcome.

...

When did JohnHwangDD become four eldar players?

Should we require this at the end of his posts?

**Disclaimer-JohnHwangDD's views do not symbolize the views of the eldar community as a whole.**

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:...

When did JohnHwangDD become four eldar players?

Should we require this at the end of his posts?

**Disclaimer-JohnHwangDD's views do not symbolize the views of the eldar community as a whole.**

He has a distinctive avatar and every post is about eldar. I don't think the disclaimer would help.

Shaman, desperate measures sounds like it would be really great for Nids and IG. How do you see that shaking out?

I think its funny you think its for the two armies that as I see it don't need the help.. haha.

I actually thought of it for chaos but gave it a generic name for everyone.

Shaking out Um just as I wrote it above. Get all the vocal chaps to weigh in and tell us what they think.

I think giving a special rule like that just to a couple of armies is the wrong way to go about it.

But ideas popped into my head so I list them..

If you were going to do that you might give eldar an evacuation ability that caused one wound but let them be off the board for a day. The one wound would be those left behind.

Or orks an ability to destabilize a sector causing two wounds to themselves but one to everyone else in their sector. The two wounds would be the orks spreading out everywhere.

Or tyranids a shadow in the warp ability that traps people in the sector with them but causes one wound for some reason I can't think of.

...

Shaman wrote:He has a distinctive avatar and every post is about eldar.

Someone "stole" my avatar here...

[rant]Why can't people make their own avatars?!? [/rant]
____

Manchu wrote:Shaman, desperate measures sounds like it would be really great for Nids and IG.

I see Desperate Measures as a Dark Eldar / Eldar / Chaos thing, myself.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Shaman wrote:He has a distinctive avatar and every post is about eldar.

Someone "stole" my avatar here...

[rant]Why can't people make their own avatars?!? [/rant]

Wait someone stole your eldrad avatar? The one you painted.. no way. Im serious really? Was it a HBMC alt a/c or something haha.

Usually I steal avatars from other forums.. Though I cropped this one.

Shaman wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:No, the issue is that too may players are reinforcing instead of attacking.

On alliance benefits, I guess I am just against alliances having any advantage other then mutual cooperation. I think it will make the game more defensive.

"Too many players are reinforcing..." Thats my point. hiding and escaping notice is boring.

If you can get help from allies, then you are free to attack in the expectation that an ally will reinforce you as promised...

For a perfect example, earlier, Vostroyans attack Night Lords 1, attack World Eaters 1, attack Red Corsairs 1, Reinforce 1, asks Cadia to support. Instead of supporting Vostroya by doing the same (hitting all 3 CSM and reinforcing 1), however, Cadia throws it away to reinforce by 2, while moving away to split the IG.

That is absolutely *horrible* gameplay. If I were EF, I'd be hopping mad.

Well, I can understand his hesitation, the Admiral took a bit of a beating with the arrival of the Chaos scum, and may have moved off in order to come back with every intention of helping later. Or maybe he's made an alliance further north in the ring...

BTW, "Imperials" aren't a faction any than there is a "Team Xenos". Eldar are a faction, and they DO have the most players.

In regards to the M*, A, M*, I think that makes Eldar literally impossible to catch for everyone. M*, A, M1 sounds better to me.

Also, no one can diss JDD's new avatar. No one.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Also, no one can diss JDD's new avatar. No one.

JDD's new avatar is really annoying.

Someone struck again, look at templork's avatar if you know what I mean...

Emperors Faithful wrote:Well, I can understand his hesitation, the Admiral took a bit of a beating with the arrival of the Chaos scum,

BTW, "Imperials" aren't a faction any than there is a "Team Xenos". Eldar are a faction, and they DO have the most players

So naturally, he's not going to do anything about it, rather than hitting back?

You say that, but nobody believes you because we all know that Imperials should team - that's the point of being in a related faction. If there were Dark Eldar, Harlies, or Exodites on the board, you bet we'd play as a combined Eldar team until non-Eldar forces are removed.
____

Nightwatch wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:Also, no one can diss JDD's new avatar. No one.

JDD's new avatar is really annoying.

Then perhaps you should adblock the JPG, lest it corrupt your mind with impure thoughts...


@IS: yeah, blatant theft!

I was curious so I searched "templork" all I got was this thread. Ghost poster?

JohnHwangDD wrote:
*snip*

If there is an Imperial side after all, you can bet your buttocks that there's also an Anti-Imperial side as well. And you appear to be the Ringleader in all cases.

Shaman wrote:I was curious so I searched "templork" all I got was this thread. Ghost poster?

The name was typo'd: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/301465.page#1704283
____

Emperors Faithful wrote: If there is an Imperial side after all, you can bet your buttocks that there's also an Anti-Imperial side as well. And you appear to be the Ringleader in all cases.

Nah, I'm just vocal.

Well while you guys are continuing your off topic argument it seems that CSM and the Orks have formed an alliance.

You guys have fun wit dat.


@ Manchu- I would like for you to reconsider my hordes hitting max and splitting into two half- strength factions controlled by the same general idea. While not necessarily for the IG, I still could see this as the tyranid rule in a game they should never have allies.

As to the other ideas, I like some of them a lot but I think we may be hitting on the max level of complexity for an internet survivor game.

As to the game boards, who is to say that you can't develope both the circular and linear. Same game but differing dynamics depending upon the playing field.

I also thought about the number of worlds and if it makes life easier then just set the number at 6. No modifiers, just 6 worlds.

focusedfire wrote:Well while you guys are continuing your off topic argument it seems that CSM and the Orks have formed an alliance.

Oh shi-

I also thought about the number of worlds and if it makes life easier then just set the number at 6. No modifiers, just 6 worlds.

That sounds alright, but for much more crowded maps it probably should be upped a little. Only if there are 20-25+ players or something.

Duh-duh-duh-double post.

focusedfire wrote:

@ Manchu- I would like for you to reconsider my hordes hitting max and splitting into two half- strength factions controlled by the same general idea. While not necessarily for the IG, I still could see this as the tyranid rule in a game they should never have allies.

Hey!
I did as you requested and didn't attack Saim-ham or Raven Guard.

'Nids need love too

@Vikingscott- My comment that you quoted was about something Manchu said on the previous page. Manchu and sme others expressed that they felt that the nids should be a stand alone faction even if the game moves more towards alliances.

My suggestion was a way to prevent the "nids being left out in the cold.

BTW, Thanks for holding off. Too bad that the CSM had to interfere. It would have been a beautifully cinematic death for the SaimHann.Any way, Thanks again.

PS. Talk to Eldar and IG, They are feeling the pinch of a Choas/Ork squeeze. You might be able to play it where you stay mostly out of it until the Final 5.

Just an idea.

@FF It was mostly a jibe at 'Nids not having allies. And the fact that if you didn't use as a sort of allies (Non-aggression I guess) I would have been the one to take out Saim-Hann.

Um, ff, Nids been hitting Eldar all along, too.

focusedfire wrote:It would have been a beautifully cinematic death for the SaimHann.

Your life was requested to be spared, and as far I am involved in this, (when I delay my vote to post from the PC to secure the correct formatting) it may take too long and sadly you were sacrificed to the denizens of the warp.

Wasn't intended to miss delivery of his wrath. Sorry.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Um, ff, Nids been hitting Eldar all along, too.

I moved into the current place as i only had one ememy to attack.
Due to FF's request to leave him and Raven Guard alone the only thing I could attack is Eldar.

VikingScott wrote:

I moved into the current place as i only had one ememy to attack.
Due to FF's request to leave him and Raven Guard alone the only thing I could attack is Eldar.

Are they yummy? You seem to like the Biel Tan flavor much....

@all:
anyone seen Biel Tan making its move the last days?

We might want to start deciding on leaders for the factions, because it seems to me that right now at least the Chaos forces are well in a state of Chaos and the Imperials seem to have no head.

DDRE is the Biel Tan right? Sometimes he has issues with getting on, or is busy with school. If I see him on MSN I'll remind him off the game.

BrotherStynier wrote:We might want to start deciding on leaders for the factions, because it seems to me that right now at least the Chaos forces are well in a state of Chaos and the Imperials seem to have no head.

DDRE is the Biel Tan right? Sometimes he has issues with getting on, or is busy with school. If I see him on MSN I'll remind him off the game.

A solution for Biel Tans missed moves would be welcome.

But why do we need faction leaders?
Does this not beg the question how many members does a faction has to have to have a leader?
Plus, are some seperate choices in this game lumped into a faction then?

I for one, prefer free will and the option to ally with almost everyone.
As, a leader may try to order players how to move and the least neccessary thing here is a officer commanding some minions. IMHO.

I suppose, but the assumed Alliances with everyone have been an issue in this game, especially due to the lumping of everyone in one faction as being responsible for the others actions.

I dont think it would be more or less some one commanding, but advising.

Is there a reason to give in to the misconception of a minority, a vocal one for sure, that a player has to be part of a faction?
Come on, games are played with teams of not-so fluffy combos.
I see no argument to have an advisor. Sounds to me like a political commissar.
Would i need to consider the content of my post at all or do I just make the advised moves and hit submit?

--What happens to the smaller groups, like Vikingscott and his nids?
--Which side is a player on? Have Manchu roll a die?
--Is there a poll to elect the advisor?

Its a bad idea to cramp players into factions. Viable maybe in a HH game.
But where to put a varied field of players as all of us had to subscribe and were free to choose any of the presented races. Thus,
you may have sometimes a dozen possible members of a faction and sometimes single players.
Additionally, factions of several players need a different balancing than what we have now.

Example:
- there are 5 SM, and their adviser advises the early death of a 10 wounds target. Boom, 1st round 1st death.
- there are Eldar and their advisor advises to attack a 10 wound target. Jump there hit, leave next turn but hit on the run. Boom,
2nd round, next death.
- there are 5 CSM, focusing on lonely targets. 5 hits plus 5 reinforce each turn. Boom.......

Allowing to automatically combine the power of several armies would be too much.
Players should have a choice what they play and if you need to bring 4-5 friends with you to stand a chance.....
No thanks.

Im not saying it has to be done I'm saying for the most part if the factions want it then allow it. If not then the factions need to be treated more like loosely allied groups who act with similar interests.

No where do I see a suggestion of forcing people to play what they dont want to play, or saying that you have to have a leader, you're twisting my words and blowing them out of proportion.

BrotherStynier wrote:Im not saying it has to be done I'm saying for the most part if the factions want it then allow it. If not then the factions need to be treated more like loosely allied groups who act with similar interests.

No where do I see a suggestion of forcing people to play what they dont want to play, or saying that you have to have a leader, you're twisting my words and blowing them out of proportion.

Didn't intend to twist anything here. Sorry, did misread you.

It's not a problem, I was just trying to clear everything up.

1hadhq wrote:A solution for Biel Tans missed moves would be welcome.

Missed moves are wasted moves. No making 'em up!

If nobody's playing Biel-Tan, and ff isn't playing any army, just let him take over.

It's not like he could do any worse than he did with Saim-Hann...

Okay, I will PM DDrE and give him till the end of tomorrow (end of turn 4) to answer. If there is no answer or DDrE answers that he cannot play, I will turn Biel-Tan over to focucsedfire--if he wants the job. If focusedfire does not want the Biel-Tan, I will offer them to Erasoketa. If no one else wants them and no one else is out by then, I will play them myself.

Your such a nice guy manchu, If I was you I'd just take over biel tan.

I'd rather see what other people would do. I already know what I would.

Manchu wrote:Okay, I will PM DDrE and give him till the end of tomorrow (end of turn 4) to answer. If there is no answer or DDrE answers that he cannot play, I will turn Biel-Tan over to focucsedfire--if he wants the job. If focusedfire does not want the Biel-Tan, I will offer them to Erasoketa. If no one else wants them and no one else is out by then, I will play them myself.

That's completely fair, tho I'd give DDRE until 10pm NY time - that way, ff / Era / you would have a chance to get a move in before the day ends.

Perhaps...

1 World + 1 world per three players?

That would be:
6 with 15
7 with 18
8 with 21
9 with 24
10 with 27

@IS- Your proposal brings the game back to the problem of the Eldar being completely boned in Smaller games. I venture to say that the SM's would be hurting in games of 4 worlds or less with this system.

I understand that 6 worlds would be a disabvantage for the 1 move armies. That was Why I proposed that the larger more ponderous horde armies have the threat of being able to create new divisions.

The horde armies being able to split would allow them to cover more territory thus forcing the faster armies to engage them in the early game as oppossed to ignoring them until they are isolated in the end game.

JohnHwangDD wrote:It's not like he could do any worse than he did with Saim-Hann...

Gee thanks John


@Manchu- While I appreciate JHDD's enthusiasm for returning what he considers to be a harmless general(I can just feel d' love) to the field, I believe that it would only be fair to offer the chance to Erakoseta first. He was the first to be eliminated so should be the first to get a second chance. If he is not up for it then I will, with much appreciation, step in to handle the much neglected Biel-Tan.

@ff: mostly, it's that you're still posting, and poor Era isn't...

And technically, I think it's possible you could manage to get Biel-Tan killed in your first Day.

focusedfire wrote:@IS- Your proposal brings the game back to the problem of the Eldar being completely boned in Smaller games. I venture to say that the SM's would be hurting in games of 4 worlds or less with this system.

Hopefully we wouldn't be playing games with fewer than 15 players though!

@ JHDD
Hey, the game plan was for Saim Hann to take out one threat and cripple another. Mission accomplished.

I knew that doing such would put a target on the Saim Hann that would mean their downfall. Re-read my message right after I took the BT out. I said that I was going to come out of the Alpha Alpha Sextus sector with 5 or less wounds and that I was going to lure the other SM in for a dog pile before I went out of the game.

After 1hadhq followed left me, I spent the rest of the time trying to get them killed off to remove the 4 Eldar are the biggest threat perception. I was really going for a Wrath of Kahn style of death scene.(Grumble...darned Chaos ruining the narrative and upstaging my death scene..grumble)

My invites to the Saim Hann Wake should have told you that. The only part of my plan that changed was, I had to adjust where I lured him to for the dog-pile because of one other army moving unpredictably.

Point is that when I saw the rules and game board I realized that the chances of a Saim Hann(Or any Single Eldar army) victory were slim, but that an Eldar win was possible(Not Guaranteed, just possible) by removing the only faction able to counter our speed.

Hi!

As I said the Game One thread I'm still here, but I won't play in the Game One anymore, so focusedfire can take the command of Biel-Tan if Morgrim, DDre and Manchu agree. No problem for me.

My post per day ratio will probably decrease a lot in the next 2-3 weeks. I can't avoid the sanfermines

If youre still visiting us regulary , why not drop some ideas here for the next game?

I will when I come up with something worthy xD

Erasoketa wrote:I will when I come up with something worthy xD

Why? Nobody else holds themselves to this standard.

Acually, how do my fellow Strats player think we all perform?

I can't believe no one is posting after me ( happen last day..).

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Erasoketa wrote:I will when I come up with something worthy xD

Why? Nobody else holds themselves to this standard.

Speak for yourself.

*relaxes on high horse*

This thread is now reserved for talk about Game One.

And new thread regarding Game Two is available here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/303013.page#1709998

Please try to stay on-topic in that thread.

That is, argue and whine here as much as you want.

Moved from game-thread:



1hadhq wrote:But my point was to keep it believable and somehow fitting to the background of the chosen army.

Your story had 2 issues:
-psi used against the followers of khorne ( who are either too mad to care or too resilient due to their patron)
and a weapon to bind souls,without a pommelstone but a soulstone ( so empty socket or not? go go goto?)
-it was aimed to paint a character as silly little minion, where your own was the superior "know it all".
Lets imagine a player is upset enough to cast your character down next game without a single word.
Silence is a sharper weapon than lenghty OT fluff...

I don't think you need a reason to fight another army from a previous game.
OTOH a supporter of the IoM has a legendary amount of reasons to oppose anyone.
But chaos? they only care for themselves, so your "reason" of a single lost character is lost to any chaos player (except its owner)fromstart.


FF wrote:
1)The operative term hear is chosen armies not army. Your use of the singular in light of the rest of your post denotes a bias. Hard to accept input from biased undividuals.
2)So Khorne rage makes CSM's immune to psychic powers? I missed that in the codex. You must be reading a codex by Goto.
3)Read up on direswords and spirit/soul stones. It is not a far stretch from where GW has them and my creative use. You act as if the use of a new idea is a sin when it was just a story idea. (Iget your point, I wrote it so you don't like it. I'll live.)
4)It was aimed to paint the character in the same light that its author had portrayed his opponents.(Really, are we going down this road again? Sometimes it really feels like you try to hold me to a different standard just to create an argument.)
5)You may not think people need a reason but GW disagrees as is evident in the various fluff rivalries across their publications.
6)If the individual does not matter to chaos then why waste time to corrupt them and then to repeatedly retrieve these individuals? Seems like Chaos targets Individuals more than the common-folk, at least the way GW writes them.



1) Call it bias as much you want, its not. Your usage of "hear" instead of here and "undividuals" instead of individuals could be seen as misspelling , but I simply accept it as typos as I am aware of the US-keyboard layout.

2) Berserkers easy to maniplate with psi powers are as fluffy as world eaters librarians are common. The berserker they are based on were
immune to any psychic influence in their rage and Khorne is protecting his minions from the sorcery of his freind tzentch.
To set the background on ignore doesn't work. Plus, you cant blame Goto for everything.

3) What? A sin? Fine lets declare you heretic and send in the Inquisition...
Did critzie your execution of your idea and your point of c-s-goto style...so no, you can't have a sword without a x but still y when x+y would be a) in the same place, b) are the same thing also. Remember the land/razor/raider/backs ? Transformers and 40k =

4) No, you get the same standard. But i add your own "goes all emo if he feels wronged" comment to my consideration of a reply to your posts. "Threats" like these comments are to funny to miss.

5) GW's thougths are usually misinterpreted, like page 2 of the brb, on intend. They throw out "reasons to fight" for the unimaginative as they aim for everyones wallet and not at the minority of capable fluff writers.

6) Individuals are easier to corrupt than whole communitys at once. They are tools, and they may get some motivation from the offered gifts. But chaos itself would not try to retrieve one of the demons, power hungry cultists would, and those only to reap a reward.
Therefore, no reason for any chaos player to claim that creature, as: plays different fraction of chaos, has its own creature, isn't the one that lost this creature, always fights eldar as s/he should as follower of the warp-denizens, fights the eldar player in general and does not need a chaos based reason, shall i go on?

You may write what you please, and I / we may decide to critcise as I / we please too.
Seems there was an unspoken competition of fluff in game one and I beleive the audience should be the ones to praise or damn.
At the end of the game preferably.

Leave the miscommunication to us foreigners and solve the issues when they appear, in this thread.

1hadhq wrote:1) Call it bias as much you want, its not. Your usage of "hear" instead of here and "undividuals" instead of individuals could be seen as misspelling , but I simply accept it as typos as I am aware of the US-keyboard layout.

2) Berserkers easy to maniplate with psi powers are as fluffy as world eaters librarians are common. The berserker they are based on were
immune to any psychic influence in their rage and Khorne is protecting his minions from the sorcery of his freind tzentch.
To set the background on ignore doesn't work. Plus, you cant blame Goto for everything.

3) What? A sin? Fine lets declare you heretic and send in the Inquisition...
Did critzie your execution of your idea and your point of c-s-goto style...so no, you can't have a sword without a x but still y when x+y would be a) in the same place, b) are the same thing also. Remember the land/razor/raider/backs ? Transformers and 40k =

4) No, you get the same standard. But i add your own "goes all emo if he feels wronged" comment to my consideration of a reply to your posts. "Threats" like these comments are to funny to miss.

5) GW's thougths are usually misinterpreted, like page 2 of the brb, on intend. They throw out "reasons to fight" for the unimaginative as they aim for everyones wallet and not at the minority of capable fluff writers.

6) Individuals are easier to corrupt than whole communitys at once. They are tools, and they may get some motivation from the offered gifts. But chaos itself would not try to retrieve one of the demons, power hungry cultists would, and those only to reap a reward.
Therefore, no reason for any chaos player to claim that creature, as: plays different fraction of chaos, has its own creature, isn't the one that lost this creature, always fights eldar as s/he should as follower of the warp-denizens, fights the eldar player in general and does not need a chaos based reason, shall i go on?

You may write what you please, and I / we may decide to critcise as I / we please too.
Seems there was an unspoken competition of fluff in game one and I beleive the audience should be the ones to praise or damn.
At the end of the game preferably.

Leave the miscommunication to us foreigners and solve the issues when they appear, in this thread.

1)Yay, I made some typos. Perfect excuse to dodge giving a full answer. BTW, thank you for understanding the keyboard issues. My large hands on tiny keyboard no work much so good.

IMO, there is a bias on your part. Maybe its that you never miss a chance to debate the opposite POV from mine that leads me to believe this, maybe it is because I have yet to see you deliver a critque upon any others in-game commentary. When I see you offer up unsolicited critique to someome other than JHDD or myself I might take what you say a bit more seriously. Until then I'll chuckle until you say something that makes me .

2)Show me in game where World Eaters have a natural immunity to the effects of the Shadowseers Veil of Tears, a Warlocks Destructor or a Farseers Mindwar. You won't find such because they are lobotomized simpiltons that will fall on their own swords if they don't have an opponent to fight. Yes the surgery is "supposed to make them into killing machines. The brain is also known for incredible elasticity(medical term) where one part takes up the duties of damaged or missing parts. I chose to have the Farseer manipulate the berserkers. BTW, Tzeench is known to use of the beserkers "simplified minds" to misdirect them.

3)I am sorry that the concept of a dire blade that has an empty spirit stone set into the pommel. The stone and blade have been preparred to receive a spirit. I just took a bit of artistic license in describing how the Spirit was instilled into the stone. I went with the route that a Seer could do such. If your going to criticize, then do so about the fact that I used a Farseer to do it rather than a spiritseer. I was going to have several there but the story was already running long. I'm glad I didn't waste the effort.

4) Funny you use the term emo, been getting that vibe off of you for a while. Tell the truth, you wear girls jeans and have a Donald Trump Combover for a hair style.

5) Yeah, BRB is not what I was talking about, Sparky. Many codices have contained sections about the reasons why certain factions fight. Look in the Inquisition ones.
Also, Its answers like this that give me the impression that you just want to argue with me. You in effect agree with what I said yet managed to still make it an argument.

6)Really, a group of petty vengeful gods constantly looking to embarass and one up each other would not track down a rivals pet to use against their master? Here we will just have to disagree.

Funny, you viewed the fluff as a competition. I saw it as a way to bait to chase after me in order to provide relief to my allies. That and the Ork stuff was pretty funny.

Aww, why should you guys get all of the fun.

focusedfire wrote:
1)Yay, I made some typos. Perfect excuse to dodge giving a full answer. BTW, thank you for understanding the keyboard issues. My large hands on tiny keyboard no work much so good.

IMO, there is a bias on your part. Maybe its that you never miss a chance to debate the opposite POV from mine that leads me to believe this, maybe it is because I have yet to see you deliver a critque upon any others in-game commentary. When I see you offer up unsolicited critique to someome other than JHDD or myself I might take what you say a bit more seriously. Until then I'll chuckle until you say something that makes me .

2)Show me in game where World Eaters have a natural immunity to the effects of the Shadowseers Veil of Tears, a Warlocks Destructor or a Farseers Mindwar. You won't find such because they are lobotomized simpiltons that will fall on their own swords if they don't have an opponent to fight. Yes the surgery is "supposed to make them into killing machines. The brain is also known for incredible elasticity(medical term) where one part takes up the duties of damaged or missing parts. I chose to have the Farseer manipulate the berserkers. BTW, Tzeench is known to use of the beserkers "simplified minds" to misdirect them.

3)I am sorry that the concept of a dire blade that has an empty spirit stone set into the pommel. The stone and blade have been preparred to receive a spirit. I just took a bit of artistic license in describing how the Spirit was instilled into the stone. I went with the route that a Seer could do such. If your going to criticize, then do so about the fact that I used a Farseer to do it rather than a spiritseer. I was going to have several there but the story was already running long. I'm glad I didn't waste the effort.

4) Funny you use the term emo, been getting that vibe off of you for a while. Tell the truth, you wear girls jeans and have a Donald Trump Combover for a hair style.

5) Yeah, BRB is not what I was talking about, Sparky. Many codices have contained sections about the reasons why certain factions fight. Look in the Inquisition ones.
Also, Its answers like this that give me the impression that you just want to argue with me. You in effect agree with what I said yet managed to still make it an argument.

6)Really, a group of petty vengeful gods constantly looking to embarass and one up each other would not track down a rivals pet to use against their master? Here we will just have to disagree.

Funny, you viewed the fluff as a competition. I saw it as a way to bait to chase after me in order to provide relief to my allies. That and the Ork stuff was pretty funny.

Aww, why should you guys get all of the fun.

1) YAY, its easy to spot when native english posters get upset, as they start to fill their posts with typos...

2) A mind too small to fill with doubts can't be affected with those psi-powers. Sure, you can evade my point with moving from background to game. Now, aim those powers at Kharn and see what happens...

4) thats all you can come up with? Lame.

5) No. Your urge to be right doesn't matter. Point is, GW supports the stance of any army vs any army.
You didn't opt to play eldar and shaman didn't opt to play CSM. Instead both go for SM. SO why again should anyone feel compelled to spin your story further? Would suggest to stick with that choice, as it may get funny when 2 posters have to go along with teamplay.

6) Is there anyone so overconfident to act as "chaos-god"? Still, game 2 has only 1 CSM and the NL aren't interested in demons..

7) Orks are meant to be funny.
But why chase a 10w army if there is a 5w one?
Would guess the ork waagh grinds to a halt pretty soon....

Yay.

@EF: I dunno, I'm happier without having to tell stories, other than making eating noises...

1hadhq wrote:
1) YAY, its easy to spot when native english posters get upset, as they start to fill their posts with typos...

2) A mind too small to fill with doubts can't be affected with those psi-powers. Sure, you can evade my point with moving from background to game. Now, aim those powers at Kharn and see what happens...

4) thats all you can come up with? Lame.

5) No. Your urge to be right doesn't matter. Point is, GW supports the stance of any army vs any army.
You didn't opt to play eldar and shaman didn't opt to play CSM. Instead both go for SM. SO why again should anyone feel compelled to spin your story further? Would suggest to stick with that choice, as it may get funny when 2 posters have to go along with teamplay.

6) Is there anyone so overconfident to act as "chaos-god"? Still, game 2 has only 1 CSM and the NL aren't interested in demons..

7) Orks are meant to be funny.
But why chase a 10w army if there is a 5w one?
Would guess the ork waagh grinds to a halt pretty soon....

1)Not upset, just aging hands on a very small laptop keyboard.

2)Yet we wern't talking about Kharn. Were we? Here, I'll try to help you with your confusion: Look at the word Karn and count the number of letters in it, then look at the word Shamanos and count the number of letters in it. Notice the different number and shape of the letters, That means that they are different.(Is this the kind of response you were looking for in the 4th line up above? )

4)Yes, your Emo comment was lame.

5)At least you admitted that I was right. As far as source material, it doesn't have to be the same individuals, factions or the immediately following game. It is out there for any one to use or alter as a piece of the games backstory.

6) Inquisition or even a certain SM chapter might be interested in such.

7)Yet twice in this game I was able to take the heat off of my allies by use of intentionally arrogant statements that drew the enemy towards my faction.
Yeah the Waughh seems to have lost momentum and with us taking out the Goffs the Alliances will start to shift soon. As things stand we are most likely looking at an end game stalemate. That is because no one will have the necessary damage output to outstrip their opponents ability to reinforce.

focusedfire wrote:
1)Not upset, just aging hands on a very small laptop keyboard.

2)Yet we wern't talking about Kharn. Were we? Here, I'll try to help you with your confusion: Look at the word Karn and count the number of letters in it, then look at the word Shamanos and count the number of letters in it. Notice the different number and shape of the letters, That means that they are different.(Is this the kind of response you were looking for in the 4th line up above? )

4)Yes, your Emo comment was lame.

5)At least you admitted that I was right. As far as source material, it doesn't have to be the same individuals, factions or the immediately following game. It is out there for any one to use or alter as a piece of the games backstory.

6) Inquisition or even a certain SM chapter might be interested in such.

7)Yet twice in this game I was able to take the heat off of my allies by use of intentionally arrogant statements that drew the enemy towards my faction.
Yeah the Waughh seems to have lost momentum and with us taking out the Goffs the Alliances will start to shift soon. As things stand we are most likely looking at an end game stalemate. That is because no one will have the necessary damage output to outstrip their opponents ability to reinforce.

2) Kharn is a valid example of a follower of khorne. Do I have to dig up all the relevant fluff?
IMO, psi vs the minions of one of the other 3 selfproclaimed gods would have a chance to work, maybe if he choose a sorcerer of the TS it could go wrong.

4) Ok 1:1

5) So if I am right to say you intended to be right, does intend equal fact?

6) =I= isnt availble and SM don't bother with immobile demons.

7) Youre interpreting the game to your liking, as far as I am involved you've had no endangered ally. There was a "swap" of 2vs2 and those
deciding to stay and fight may go down because they keep on. 4 KIA. Maybe the playfield should shrink over time to throw the runners
into the fight.

The stalemate we could agree upon, but I don't see a solution without dropping/reducing reinforce and rebalancing attacks/wounds.

Actually, John has the best chance to eat them all ( until his dinner decides to run... )

1hadhq wrote:2) Kharn is a valid example of a follower of khorne. Do I have to dig up all the relevant fluff?
IMO, psi vs the minions of one of the other 3 selfproclaimed gods would have a chance to work, maybe if he choose a sorcerer of the TS it could go wrong.

5) So if I am right to say you intended to be right, does intend equal fact?

6) =I= isnt availble and SM don't bother with immobile demons.

7) Youre interpreting the game to your liking, as far as I am involved you've had no endangered ally. There was a "swap" of 2vs2 and those
deciding to stay and fight may go down because they keep on. 4 KIA. Maybe the playfield should shrink over time to throw the runners
into the fight.

2)Operative term in your reply is IMO. We will just leave it there because we are unlikely to move from our opinion to anothers.

5)When I'm right it does. I can't believe you fell for that.

6)=I= is not available yet and as th SM's you can only speak for a chapter you would run.

7)No need for interpreter, Ich canst sprechen ien bissen duetch. Ok, maybe we do need an interpreter. Just make sure its a barmaid mitt zwei boot Dopplebock, bitte.
As far as the alliances go, twice I distracted units that if they had stayed at Ultramar we would be down an IG faction currently. But then you weren't privy to those PM's.

Maybe shrink the field, but will require complete rework of damage and reinforce tables. Will also require math formula to determine when the table shrinks and by how much. I think it may become overly complicated yp attempt such.

focusedfire wrote:

7)No need for interpreter, Ich canst sprechen ien bissen duetch. Ok, maybe we do need an interpreter. Just make sure its a barmaid mitt zwei boot Dopplebock, bitte.
As far as the alliances go, twice I distracted units that if they had stayed at Ultramar we would be down an IG faction currently. But then you weren't privy to those PM's.

Maybe shrink the field, but will require complete rework of damage and reinforce tables. Will also require math formula to determine when the table shrinks and by how much. I think it may become overly complicated to attempt such.

7) 2x doppelbock? Would assume you weren't alone

Dunno, everyone happily chased eldar...
IG wasn't in danger as too many jumped on the reinforce bandwagon. Cadia' s hiding for a week without beeing hit should hint at
the absence of a plan to hit the IG.

A shrink isn't so complicated. Tie it to turns and number of active players. If people tarry too long, the shrinking field will bring them closer...
Example: start = 7 worlds / 15 players. Turn 10 = >10 players = shrink 1. Turn 15 > 8 = shrink 2. Turn 20 > 5 players = shrink 3.

Would like to have a motivation to choose a decisive fight inbuilt, as running away in the end will guarantee a draw.

@JohnDD: I was saying "Yay." as in "Yay I can't be bothered to read this crap so I'm off to help myself to some Scotch."

We really need to rethink IG. I've been wailed on by three seperate armies at all times for several turns and it's barely showing. It's dangerous for any army to be able to reinforce while also attacking. I'm not saying get rid of it altogether, but I do think that there should be an option between A3 T3 and A2 T2 + R1. Instead of A3 T3 + R1.

"barely showing"?

You were at 20, now 10.

If you were Eldar / SM, you'd be dead.

Yes, and so they should be after more than half a dozen turns of three seperate armies attacking them with all they've got. Believe me, any other faction other than Nids and IG would be very, very dead by now. The disturbing thing is that I can shrug these attacks off in a couple of turns of movement, less if they focus their attacks on someone else. This "reinforce while attacking" is disturbingly powerful. I can tell this is true just by looking at Vostroyans now, and I suspect Kraken are going to show the same thing later on.

BTW, Max 25 is huge. I'm in favour of IG and Orks both being brought down to Max 15 (after all, we're only talking a single IG regiment here), and Nids brought down to Max 20 at least.

Emperors Faithful wrote: I suspect Kraken are going to show the same thing later on.

W25 with A2 R1 or A1+1 R2? Nah...

I wonder exactly how many it will take to bring you down. Not that I want to be the one to find out of course...

From the numbers, it takes at least A3 to beat R2. More than that simply makes it go faster.

Since nobody has A3, R2 is really good.

Example:

1 nid vs 2x A1 armies:

A1 x2 = nid - 2w
A 1/1 = opponents each -1w, nid R2
=> atackers -1w each, nid 0 damage.
So 2x A1 armies get eaten....

1 nid vs 2x faster A1 armies moving before nids move:

M/A1 vs nid = 1w
M/A1 vs nid = 1w
A1/M vs nid = 1w
A1/M vs nid = 1w
=> attackers unharmed, nid -4w (assuming nids are alone there and can't bite something else to Reinforce).

1nid vs 2x A2 armies:

A2 x2 = nid *-4w
A 1/1 = opponents each -1w, nid R2
=> attackers -2w, nid -2w. Nid at 25 would easily await the death of the 10w armies....

everyone dogpile on nids:

A1 x6 = nid -6w
A1/1 = nid R2
=> attackers -2w if those can't attack and reinforce/otherwise no harm. Nids -4w. (at 25 = 7 turns).

As there are no (other) A2 armies left, A3 would be the sum of 3 A1 armies.

+ Allies A3
- Nids A2 R2
= Allies -1, Nids -1

Whichever has more wounds wins.


If the Allies are all A1 R1 IG / Eldar / CSM, then it's like this:
+ Allies = A3 R3
- Nids = A2 R2
= Allies +1, Nids -1

In this case, the Allies auto-win.



For those who didn't see, I'd like to solicit input for a follow-on "Team Survivor" game:

Team Survivor rules, interest, & discussion thread

ALPHA

BETA
Biel-Tan (Eldar) ... 10

GAMMA
. Ulthwe (Eldar) ... 10

DELTA

EPSILON
. Kraken (Nids) ... 8
. Cadians (IG) ... 20
. Vostroyans (IG) ... 19
. Freebooterz (Orks) ... 9

And now the game goes very slow.

In Epsilon, it will take at least a week for the Ork-IG alliance to whittle the Nids down from 8

In the mean time, the Eldar should be able to clear the Orks, leading to a pure IG-Eldar draw, with Eldar not out-hitting the IG, and IG not catching Eldar.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

ALPHA

BETA
Biel-Tan (Eldar) ... 10

GAMMA
. Ulthwe (Eldar) ... 10

DELTA

EPSILON
. Kraken (Nids) ... 8
. Cadians (IG) ... 20
. Vostroyans (IG) ... 19
. Freebooterz (Orks) ... 9

And now the game goes very slow.

In Epsilon, it will take at least a week for the Ork-IG alliance to whittle the Nids down from 8

In the mean time, the Eldar should be able to clear the Orks, leading to a pure IG-Eldar draw, with Eldar not out-hitting the IG, and IG not catching Eldar.

But the IG offers a solution:

Nicely stand there in a row, and we end your misery....

IMO the eldar are the issue, they refuse to attack the nids.
As they run away, the IG could win in points right? More wounds = more win.

See were not interested in a Nids/eldar alliance. Our only option is to attack the last A2 army now.
Maybe if the nids go for tasty spargelz next after their fungi diet?

Nids can't catch Eldars, either.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Nids can't catch Eldars, either.

Nids can, if the eldar player doesn't post at all as we've seen in game one.

Now, one ork isn't active at all....

Interest seems to cease.
More death and faster may help.

Again, please line up and the IG solves that.

Thing is, with so much easy Reinforce, at this point, Eldar or IG could probably go dormant for a few (several, for IG) days before picking up again.

After seeing how Nids fared, I may just test this later...

All:

FYI, Manchu and I will be launching Team Survivor Game 2 in a week or two. We are looking for input and suggestions, along with potential interest.

Thanks,

/John