So, this is the next army I'm thinking of doing. Chaos Sisters of Battle allied with some Slannesh daemons, and I've got a pretty good army. Problem is how. I'm not the best with conversions or modifications, so converting Sisters of Battle to chaos isn't going to be easy for me, but thats why I came here. Any ideas, suggestions, comments, concerns, duffel bags full of twenty dollar bills, etc... will be greatly appreciated.

They are metal models and iirc they come in about 2 peices. So a conversion based on them would be rather difficult IMO. Also, alot of the sisters of battle minis are beginning to be pulled from shelves and the online store. Many people expect them to get a new codex soon along with new sisters modes (That or they are going the way of the space dwarves imo).
So I say wait a while to do the army. Or do it without those damed metal sisters.
You might get flamed for having female space marines or having chaos sisters of battle. (Atm I assume you are using the chaos codex. If you use the sisters codex....... shame on you sir.)

Aside from the fact that it's completely unfluffy? I suggest using e-bay, because GW has had an aneurysm and decided to not sell the ten model box anymore and therefor it will take upwards of sixty bucks to get a single squad from GW (without any special weapons).

You could do what I did when I built my Sisters army and just order them individually. They were 4 bucks a piece either way. Then you could order lots of Veterans if you wanted to model pistol/cc weapons. You can order bitz packs of chaos backpacks that you could scatter throughout your squads. Otherwise, the basic models will be really tough to alter as they are single piece casts. Changing bolters, etc. would be terribly labor-intensive.

The plan was to use the CSM codex, just the sisters of battle models.

Exactly. I was just trying to assist you with using the models. I like it; especially the Slaaneshi theme.

Meh. If you're really going the route, Khornate Sisters would work better. What with the despising of psychic powers, the focus on martial prowess and etc.

Slaaneshi Sisters will just make you look like a perverted loser.

I gotta agree with Melissia on this one. While it may not have been your intent, I don't think an order of Sisters who fall to Chaos are going to fall into Slaanesh's camp. Khorne, prolly. Nurgle, maybe. Although I do see them going with Slaanesh more than Tzeentch. Honestly, if they are supposed to have 'just' converted, then take NORMAL Sisters, then scar and deface all the Imperial iconography (since they haven't had time to get 'real' Chaos uniforms yet...) and add some Chaos oriented grafitti. Also, spikes and rusty blades. That should do it.

Hey Spider, try to ignore the hate. I cannot remember a single positive post from her. Some members go out of their way to be contentious. It is your army idea. The cooler you make it, the better it looks, the more props you will receive. My CSM are all loyalist marines with chaos bitz and their Imperial livery crossed out in red. I have an Emporer's Champ as chaos lord, GK termies as oblits, and a leman russ, heavily converted, into a defiler. No one has ever told me the army looks bad. Some cry out in anguish to see their beloved squads as assorted CSM's. Death Company jump troops as Raptors makes some BA players weep. It's all in good, clean, wholesome fun. When all is said and done it was your time and money. You might as well enjoy it to the full!

Numbered this post in order to respond without multiple quotes.

Brettila wrote:1: try to ignore the hate.
2: I cannot remember a single positive post from her.
3: It is your army idea. The cooler you make it, the better it looks, the more props you will receive.

1: There is no hate, there is only someone making an ignorant, borderline trolling statement (that would be you).

2: Because you are too lazy to actually read my posts? I stated "this is unfluffy" and then gave suggestions on how the person might obtain models for the use of their army. Obviously I am not discouraging them from doing so, if I am stating what I think the best way for them to obtain models for use in their idea is. But then that would be a logical conclusion, and I do not expect that out of you.

3: That is untrue. Try making a female marine army of any kind, be it loyalist or chaos-- you'll get harshly bashed for it no matter how good the models are. Hell even if you use the same models and just call it a female marine army (maybe with occasional head swaps for models that don't wear a helmet). Even if you just write a bit of fluff up for it, expect people to insult you about it and get their tighty whities up in a twist and then leave in a hissy fit.

edit: Why yes, I am speaking from personal experience, as well as having seen it happen about a dozen times, all rather consistently.

epil wrote:Many people expect them to get a new codex soon along with new sisters modes.

Yeah, but I was expecting the same thing seven years ago. I'm still waiting for GW to release a plastic Sisters sprue.

It's your hobby bro, you should do whatever conversion you want, expecially at the price models cost nowdays. Personally I've never seen any sort of fluff/model predjudace in the gaming clubs I've been to. Maybe that's because the hobby is more laid back and social down here. The social environment of one country/city/town/suburb can be very different to another so its very hard to make a comment on how the army will be received without knowing how your gaming club rolls. If you know that they are cool with the idea, there's nothing holding you back, besides maybe the internetz apparently.

At the end of the day, take anything the internetz told you with a grain of salt. We're all faceless sources of text at the end of the day.

Brettila wrote:Hey Spider, try to ignore the hate. I cannot remember a single positive post from her. Some members go out of their way to be contentious.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that she is always negative. Suffice to say she is slightly confrontational. I would definitely consider her mostly argumentative. That doesn't necessarily carry the negative connotations either.



On topic though, SoB gone Chaos sounds just awesome for some reason. Couldn't hurt to try Black Legion.

Melissia wrote:Meh. If you're really going the route, Khornate Sisters would work better. What with the despising of psychic powers, the focus on martial prowess and etc.

Slaaneshi Sisters will just make you look like a perverted loser.

No, not completely. There have been Slaaneshi sisters ( either corrupted or actually possessed, i am not certain ) in the Daemonifuge comic / graphic novel.
They actually looked pretty good and had non of the somewhat boring striperific aspects which are so common when it comes to Slaanesh.

I've got a squad of "count as" chaos sisters in a traitor guard army. Basis for the models are dark elves - you get 6 female toros in the box IIRC - and it's not too difficult to convert the cross-bow armed ones into carrying bolters.

If you can find the old metal witch elves they can work as well - but avoid the current range as they can't really get away with a 3+ save whereas the plate and chain armour worn by the originals is good enough.

In one of the Cain novels there were some sister fighting for chaos - as a result of s psychic attack

Actually if you play Slaanesh at all you risk being teased as a 'pervert', and that's fine, that's why one plays that faction isn't it? Hee hee!

I read on the Lexicanum website that while the Game background says only one sister ever fell to Chaos, the books and comics contradict this and has some following Slaanesh. I have never read the fiction, so I don't know. But I don't really trust the fiction, I understand they also claim 'Sisters of Battle do not take oaths of Chastity' which is pretty sad if true given their medieval and fanatic zealotry akin to the most intense Catholic Saints of old. Anyways, it's your army, what matters most is whether your friends will accept what you are doing.

If you're going to depart from the fluff, you could try using non-GW models too. With the addition of 40K backpacks and weaponry, medieval torsos and legs can look a lot like power armor, especially for Chaos. Find some female knights or paladins and go for broke with GW chaos bits and stuff is my advice.

But it's a pity, if only you had been faithful and true to the one and true God Emperor
--- Frankie

Petite Francois wrote:But I don't really trust the fiction, I understand they also claim 'Sisters of Battle do not take oaths of Chastity' which is pretty sad if true given their medieval and fanatic zealotry akin to the most intense Catholic Saints of old.

I'd argue this is a good thing, there's no real reason to make that connection except inertia. The Catholic Church might care about such things, but I imagine the Ecclesiarchy would focus more on the importance of rooting out heresy, turning in psykers and supporting the war effort.

AlexHolker wrote:

Petite Francois wrote:But I don't really trust the fiction, I understand they also claim 'Sisters of Battle do not take oaths of Chastity' which is pretty sad if true given their medieval and fanatic zealotry akin to the most intense Catholic Saints of old.

I'd argue this is a good thing, there's no real reason to make that connection except inertia. The Catholic Church might care about such things, but I imagine the Ecclesiarchy would focus more on the importance of rooting out heresy, turning in psykers and supporting the war effort.

Respectfully I disagree. First there is the whole 'Space Nun' aura they are borrowing from. Having fornicating space nuns makes about as much sense as peaceful Orks or pacifist space marines. I would be curious how many people who actually play the Sisters would prefer them as chaste and pure rather than, well...typical...unremarkable... Then there's the Joan of Arc similarities, and she is well known for her chastity. Why borrow from fantasy and history if you're going to undue the very things that make them special?

Then there are the redemptionists, who, while they are not part of the ecclesiarchy, demonstrate that ultra conservatives of the time react to promiscuity with horror.

Then there is the historical shame of having been the sexual playthings of Vandire during the age of apostasy, which I would imagine would cause some kind of reaction to the collective psyches of the modern day sisters.

But most of all, there is the mystical power of sublimating the sex drive. Being beholden in mind, spiirit and body to no one but the God Emperor. With such intense devotion and single minded loyalty, sexual relations and their intimate link to romantic attachment is only a potential distraction and a danger.

But again, I am reading a lot into the Sisters that may not be there. It's fine My sisters do practice abstinence, yours may not, and it's all well and good at the end of the day

Petite Francois wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:

Petite Francois wrote:But I don't really trust the fiction, I understand they also claim 'Sisters of Battle do not take oaths of Chastity' which is pretty sad if true given their medieval and fanatic zealotry akin to the most intense Catholic Saints of old.

I'd argue this is a good thing, there's no real reason to make that connection except inertia. The Catholic Church might care about such things, but I imagine the Ecclesiarchy would focus more on the importance of rooting out heresy, turning in psykers and supporting the war effort.

Respectfully I disagree. First there is the whole 'Space Nun' aura they are borrowing from. Having fornicating space nuns makes about as much sense as peaceful Orks or pacifist space marines. I would be curious how many people who actually play the Sisters would prefer them as chaste and pure rather than, well...typical...unremarkable... Then there's the Joan of Arc similarities, and she is well known for her chastity. Why borrow from fantasy and history if you're going to undue the very things that make them special?

Then there are the redemptionists, who, while they are not part of the ecclesiarchy, demonstrate that ultra conservatives of the time react to promiscuity with horror.

Then there is the historical shame of having been the sexual playthings of Vandire during the age of apostasy, which I would imagine would cause some kind of reaction to the collective psyches of the modern day sisters.

But most of all, there is the mystical power of sublimating the sex drive. Being beholden in mind, spiirit and body to no one but the God Emperor. With such intense devotion and single minded loyalty, sexual relations and their intimate link to romantic attachment is only a potential distraction and a danger.

But again, I am reading a lot into the Sisters that may not be there. It's fine My sisters do practice abstinence, yours may not, and it's all well and good at the end of the day

And my sisters (only 6 at the min but will be reinforced when plastic) will be sharing rooms with marines and be slow and perposeful

I joke, but yeah I just assumed abstinance came with the space nuns.

If you want to do Slaanesh then may I suggest the Mistress from the Sisters Repentia as a Sorceress (using Lash of Slaanesh of course). The other Sisters Repentia make good beserkers.

Petite Francois wrote:Respectfully I disagree. First there is the whole 'Space Nun' aura they are borrowing from. Having fornicating space nuns makes about as much sense as peaceful Orks or pacifist space marines. I would be curious how many people who actually play the Sisters would prefer them as chaste and pure rather than, well...typical...unremarkable... Then there's the Joan of Arc similarities, and she is well known for her chastity. Why borrow from fantasy and history if you're going to undue the very things that make them special?

Joan of Arc was also a hero and a patriot who maintained her faith despite the betrayal of the church. That's what made her special, not whether or not she was celibate.

Then there are the redemptionists, who, while they are not part of the ecclesiarchy, demonstrate that ultra conservatives of the time react to promiscuity with horror.

The Redemption is a lynch mob with better equipment. I would not assume anything about the mainstream belief based on their hang-ups.

Then there is the historical shame of having been the sexual playthings of Vandire during the age of apostasy, which I would imagine would cause some kind of reaction to the collective psyches of the modern day sisters.

I'm willing to accept that, but I'd think the reaction would be more likely to be hatred of those that abuse power, not misaimed prohibitions of consensual, loving relationships.

But most of all, there is the mystical power of sublimating the sex drive. Being beholden in mind, spiirit and body to no one but the God Emperor. With such intense devotion and single minded loyalty, sexual relations and their intimate link to romantic attachment is only a potential distraction and a danger.

Here we can agree. Where we differ is whether that abstinence would be written into oath or simply a (extremely common) personal choice.

KingDeath wrote:No, not completely. There have been Slaaneshi sisters ( either corrupted or actually possessed, i am not certain ) in the Daemonifuge comic / graphic novel.

Daemonifuge is non-canon as far as I'm concerned. I despise that... thing.

And yes, Sisters do not have to take vows of celibacy. However, Sisters live lives of self-denial, charity, and discipline which make the most professional modern soldier look like a civilian in comparison. The lot of a Sister is not to enjoy her life, but to serve and venerate the Immortal Emperor... and destroy his enemies.

Khornate Sisters of Battle make far, far more sense than any of the other chaos gods. It is still going against the fluff, but if you really want to do it, that would be the most believable way.

Sounds dumb to have them aligned with Slanneshi daemons. Monsters obsessed with pleasure would in all likelyhood, rape any women they see. It's not that far off. Slaaneshimarines would be even worse.

It might be better to either wait until there's some news about new sisters models, or if that doesn't happen, scratch build them out of eldar or something. I think converting the metal models is out of the question. Way to difficult. even changing their heads is an all day affair.

Slaanesh is not just god of pleasure, but of excess in general.

And Sisters could be gradually lead off the path into chaos. One of the Grey Knights books has some Sisters (along with IG) tricked into working for chaos by a fallen inquisitor by trying to stop a force of Grey Knights from stopping a deamon being summoned.

Someone using them in this way could eventually corrupt them to the ways of chaos. Though I agree with Melissa that the blood god might be the easiest route.

Though Nurgle is also an option - they may turn to him if their world is/they are suitably infected and their faith in the Emp ebbs.

I am always 100% in favor of an idea that flies in the face of what a faction is "supposed" to be.

Fluff be damned. Write your own. Make it good, though, write bad fluff and I will mock you relentlessly for it.

Regarding suggestions of other ruinous powers than Slaanesh, I agree with Melissia in that Khorne makes more sense from a point of view - Sisters are all about discipline and martial skill, not sadism. Khorne despises torture and other methods of prolonged suffering - anything of the sort simply empowers his rival, Slaanesh. Sisters would probably find Khorne, the god of duty as well as death, to be more to their liking.

That said, I point you towards the second sentence I wrote in this post. Fluff be damned. If you want Slaaneshi Sisters, by all means, make Slaaneshi Sisters.

I also agree with the points regarding simply buying Sisters, defacing their Imperial iconography, and adding some Chaosy bits. Spikes and skulls, that sort of thing. The paint job is also important, it has to scream "Chaos." But that's the easy part.

My only real recommendation is to buy a load of GS. You'll need it.

Sisters of Slaanesh
I've seen it done by more than a handful of people, very interesting convertions are possible.

I encourage imagination really, it's rewarding and fun.
So yea, ignore the nay-sayers. It is your hobby, time, and money. Do what you want to do with it.

As for Khornate Sisters....they only have blood frenzy that certain time of the month................yea, I wouldn't suggest Khornate Sisters.

To Alex Holker: For me, it was that St. Joan of Arc heard the voices of the Angels and Saints, and was faithful unto death to God that made her special. I agree that her virginity, while admirable, was not unique or her greatest achievement.

Hope you all have wonderful weekends, and great gaming!
--- Frankie

Melissia wrote:

KingDeath wrote:No, not completely. There have been Slaaneshi sisters ( either corrupted or actually possessed, i am not certain ) in the Daemonifuge comic / graphic novel.

Daemonifuge is non-canon as far as I'm concerned. I despise that... thing.

How very... selective of you!

Especially in a thread about Chaos Sisters of Battle!

Because as we know, nobody should ever DARE say anything about the beloved Sisters of Battle, even in a thread supposedly about Chaos Sisters of Battle, aside from glowing reviews, nerdgasms, and love letters.

As was previously mentioned - your army, go for it, and it actually DOES seem possible, at least in GW's mind...

I was personally under the impression that No Sister of Battle has fallen to the influence of Chaos. (mark this as Sister of Battle. Not member of the Inquisition). I am probably mistaken on it.

Eitherway, Making a Sleezenesh Sister of Battle does make you look like a pervert Loser imho. Like this guy I know making an entirely Naked Dark Eldar Wych force. Yeah you can do it, but why. You just seem sad.


And honestly, I think I would laugh in your face if you brought that to a table I Was at. I really would. Not saying you couldnt make the Models Look awesome. But, come on man. Enact your Nun fantasies out elsewhere.

Though it is YOUR choice in the end, I'd be interested in seeing a Nurgle Chaos Sisters army.

Sleezenesh SoBs is just...sleazy, and Khorne Sisters have been done a few times (At least, in my area. I've seen at least 3 Khorne CSM armies with converted Sisters).

Tzeentch doesn't really seems suited for the Sisters view...
Sorry, but JUST AS PLANNED doesn't really fit the Space-Nuns.

Comintern wrote:I was personally under the impression that No Sister of Battle has fallen to the influence of Chaos. (mark this as Sister of Battle. Not member of the Inquisition).

I think that quote is more about Grey Knights.

Though I'm not sure if later books in Counter's Grey Knights series killed that one too... Ugh!

Comintern wrote:I was personally under the impression that No Sister of Battle has fallen to the influence of Chaos. (mark this as Sister of Battle. Not member of the Inquisition). I am probably mistaken on it.

You're almost right. The 2nd Edition Codex said: "A sign of the Sisters strength is the fact that in their entire history only a single sister, Miriael Sabathiel, has fallen to the lure of Chaos. How Miriael fell is unknown, only that she was turned from the Emperor's light to Slaanesh worship, and now serves as one of the prince of chaos' greatest warriors."

But then half a dozen authors thought, "A challenge, eh?" and wrote half a dozen stories about more Sisters falling to chaos, until you'd think the loyal ones were in the minority. If you're familiar with Dungeons and Dragons, it's kind of like what happened with Drizzt Do'Urden clones and evil drow.

Well, Flaming Spider, I won't think you're a pervert loser if you make Slaaneshi Sisters of Battle. At least, you'd need to do more than model some figures to make me think that about you, ha ha! But I will set your army on fire once I get my Immolators done

Emperor forgive you, seek his pardon in death!
(and have a fun weekend!)
Frankie

Comintern wrote:Eitherway, Making a Sleezenesh Sister of Battle does make you look like a pervert Loser imho. Like this guy I know making an entirely Naked Dark Eldar Wych force. Yeah you can do it, but why. You just seem sad.

And honestly, I think I would laugh in your face if you brought that to a table I Was at. I really would. Not saying you couldnt make the Models Look awesome. But, come on man. Enact your Nun fantasies out elsewhere.

Um. Sorry, but how do these two even compare? Making a Sisters of Battle force (and note that Sisters wear very conservative clothing and armor, and show literally nothing other than their faces) that follows Slaanesh (not just the god of sex, but of excess and pleasure in general) even come close to comparing to a naked Dark Eldar army? I'm scratching my head over this one.

AlexHolker wrote:If you're familiar with Dungeons and Dragons, it's kind of like what happened with Drizzt Do'Urden clones and evil drow.

Minor correction: Drizzt Do'Urden is a character in the Forgotten Realms IP, which is not D&D. Dungeons and Dragons has a Forgotten Realms campaign setting, but that's the only place where they cross over. They're still two entirely seperate IPs.

D&D is set in Eberron, not Toril.

do it and lol at the nerd rage

candy.man wrote:It's your hobby bro, you should do whatever conversion you want, expecially at the price models cost nowdays. Personally I've never seen any sort of fluff/model predjudace in the gaming clubs I've been to. Maybe that's because the hobby is more laid back and social down here. The social environment of one country/city/town/suburb can be very different to another so its very hard to make a comment on how the army will be received without knowing how your gaming club rolls. If you know that they are cool with the idea, there's nothing holding you back, besides maybe the internetz apparently.

At the end of the day, take anything the internetz told you with a grain of salt. We're all faceless sources of text at the end of the day.

This...

...and, I can't believe how many people are acting like Otaku over 40k Fluff. Damn their fluff, it's your army. Have fun with it. My suggestion would be to consider using the Daemonettes and building them up with bits and GS to effect a Sisters of Slaneesh army. IIRC most of them are already in a type of corset, so you may only have to add things like tabards/sleeves and arms to hold bolters etc. Hmm...I'm thinking crossing the old DE lower bodies with the Daemonettes might work really well. Obviously lots to think about.

Hazard,

At face value, you are probably right, but come on. Nuns, Sleezenesh, obviously noting but the purest intentions to the faith. Clearly my mind slipped into the gutter prematurely there.

Comintern wrote:Hazard,

At face value, you are probably right, but come on. Nuns, Sleezenesh, obviously noting but the purest intentions to the faith. Clearly my mind slipped into the gutter prematurely there.

I think it did.

See, when people talk about nuns, 99% of the time, it's not in a sexual manner.

When people talk about Slaanesh, at least 50% of the time, it's not in a sexual manner.

Yes, yes, we get it, Slaanesh is the god of sex. Woohoo, hilarious. Penis jokes abound.

But Slaanesh is also the god of excess, the god of life, and the god of pain.

I don't know about you, but none of those things translate into "sex" to me.

So when I think about Slaaneshi Space-nuns, I don't think kinky fetish fuel, I think faithful zealots devoted to the God-Emperor who have been tempted or drawn down the path to a life of excess and pleasure, and have devoted themselves instead to Slaanesh.

They wouldn't walk onto the battlefield naked or wield penis-cannons. They'd instead be faster, stronger, and more sadistic in nature.

Does this fit with Sisters fluff? I don't think so, for reasons I've already stated. But that doesn't mean that 1) he shouldn't be allowed to try out a story like this, or that 2) he's just doing it because BOOBIEZ LOL.

Children think like that. Adults (I like to think) do not.

so they are Mashocist? Thats even better.

But hey, you are probably right. Im sure 99% of the people will look at that army and think they are all crack fiends looking for spoons and needle, or perhaps taking binge drinking to excess.


Though, why not make them Chaos Undivided? Or does that not exist anymore? I havent bothered buying either the Daemon or the Chaos Latest Codex. But it seems like a "fallen sister" army would fall into the Word Bearer scheme rather nicely.

You're right about that one, Undivided would be pretty awesome, and seeing as the Word Bearers still have lots of religious iconography and Chaplains, the transition would be a little smoother.

But I personally feel like half of the Chaos Gods don't really fit the Sisters, and Undivided would mean pledging their allegiance to all four.

Khorne fits because Khorne is the god of duty, discipline, and martial power.
Nurgle fits somewhat because Nurgle is the god of despair (and all Sisters know that hope is the first step on the road to disappointment), and stagnation (Sisters credo hasn't changed much in the last 9-10,000 years).
Tzeentch doesn't fit at all, because he's the god of magic (Sisters would not abide the witch), hope (see above), and change (see above).
Slaanesh doesn't fit much because he's the god of decadence, pleasure (Sisters live a very Spartan, self-denying lifestyle), and sex (while Sisters don't take vows of chastity, I can't see them being anything other than chaste).

I still maintain that Khorne fits best from a fluff standpoint.

As you pointed out, he is also the god of Pain in the 40k Universe. They could punish themselves. Like those monks that whip and hurt their own bodies. (I do not know the exact term for them.)

Eitherway though, from a fluff point of view, to even use sisters. you are one shakey ground to begin with.

Flagellants.

Which, as far as I know, Sisters are not.

So it still doesn't fit.

Sister's Repentia?

Id find it more believable that sisters would seek wounds from combat. And inflict punishment to feel the pain the Emeperor did (or I believe that is what the monks do. Inflict pain to simulate that which was inflicted on Jesus. Im not sure, talking out of my ass on all this). Then I would believing they fall to the powers of Chaos.

Comintern wrote:Sister's Repentia?

Are no longer techincally Sisters. They've been outcast for some sin or heresy they committed, and seek absolution in death. Therefore their presence in a Chaos Sisters of Battle force is questionable if not downright ridiculous.

SaintHazard wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:If you're familiar with Dungeons and Dragons, it's kind of like what happened with Drizzt Do'Urden clones and evil drow.

Minor correction: Drizzt Do'Urden is a character in the Forgotten Realms IP, which is not D&D. Dungeons and Dragons has a Forgotten Realms campaign setting, but that's the only place where they cross over. They're still two entirely seperate IPs.

D&D is set in Eberron, not Toril.

I love when people get hyper critical of someone else's post and are wrong.

D&D is set in the Nentir Vale now. Sorry. :( Eberron is another setting as well. I think you'll find he was using D&D in the common, not hyper specialized context.

DnD is set in many places, and none of them are set in stone (GM's decision is final in any roleplay).

As for the comparison, Saint Hazard... actually, people HAVE modeled corrupted Sisters with breasts exposed (or at least the left breast IIRC)... or worse.

Face it, Slaanesh is perverted. Slaanesh is the very concept of perversion. Slaanesh seduces, corrupts, violates, tortures, rapes, and every day tries to find newer more extreme kinks to get off on. This is the reason Slaanesh is never featured in any videogames. The most that he/she/it got out of them in the DoW games was a single line in DoW2's expansion, and in the WFB MMO, he/she/it only had a single enemy which was covered up and decried as unfluffy by most people who actually knew the background.

Flaming_Spider wrote:So, this is the next army I'm thinking of doing. Chaos Sisters of Battle allied with some Slannesh daemons, and I've got a pretty good army. Problem is how. I'm not the best with conversions or modifications, so converting Sisters of Battle to chaos isn't going to be easy for me, but thats why I came here. Any ideas, suggestions, comments, concerns, duffel bags full of twenty dollar bills, etc... will be greatly appreciated.

I hate it when people stick tentacles and spikes to every miniature at hand just because they can. And every second teen seeing a female miniature has the idea of a Sex God worshipping army of babes, but this will get very lame pretty soon while hitting official background straight in the face. I do not recommend it and personally wouldn't play against it out of respect of the official setting.

pretre wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:If you're familiar with Dungeons and Dragons, it's kind of like what happened with Drizzt Do'Urden clones and evil drow.

Minor correction: Drizzt Do'Urden is a character in the Forgotten Realms IP, which is not D&D. Dungeons and Dragons has a Forgotten Realms campaign setting, but that's the only place where they cross over. They're still two entirely seperate IPs.

D&D is set in Eberron, not Toril.

I love when people get hyper critical of someone else's post and are wrong.

D&D is set in the Nentir Vale now. Sorry. :( Eberron is another setting as well. I think you'll find he was using D&D in the common, not hyper specialized context.

Eh. You're probably referring to that game that Wizards of the Coast is currently referring to as Dungeons and Dragons.

D&D is and always will be set in Eberron.

Melissia wrote:DnD is set in many places, and none of them are set in stone (GM's decision is final in any roleplay).

As for the comparison, Saint Hazard... actually, people HAVE modeled corrupted Sisters with breasts exposed (or at least the left breast IIRC)... or worse.

Face it, Slaanesh is perverted. Slaanesh is the very concept of perversion. Slaanesh seduces, corrupts, violates, tortures, rapes, and every day tries to find newer more extreme kinks to get off on. This is the reason Slaanesh is never featured in any videogames. The most that he/she/it got out of them in the DoW games was a single line in DoW2's expansion, and in the WFB MMO, he/she/it only had a single enemy which was covered up and decried as unfluffy by most people who actually knew the background.

My point was that not all Slaanesh followers have to be modeled with their breasts exposed. I'm certain it's been done. I'm also certain it's entirely unnecessary. And if it is done, I could easily argue that it was done in poor taste.

Poor taste?

With Slaanesh?


Nawwwwwwww



edit: Hint, Slaanesh is the very essence of bad taste. You think these modles are excessive? Good, because they're SLAANESHI MODELS.

OMG! Slaaneshi sisters sounds so HOT!

Sisters already have that whole whipping, dominatrix thing going on. Then they have to be all alone in those convents, with no men... wrestling, undressing, watching each other in the shower! Trying not to think impure thoughts... But we all know that they're bound to snap sooner or later (like all women), and then that repressed, pent up, lesbian lust is just gonna come gushing out in a huge orgy of writhing girl on girl Slaanesh worshipping action!

I'm fapping furiously right now just thinking about it!!!

... Or am I?

Ack - I can see now that Chaos Sisters is going to join the illustrious company of Female Space Marines.

Let's just keep it civil, do NOT insult each other, etc.

You know, warning time and all that.

SmackCakes, if the Sisters of Battle were that weak willed and carnal, they wouldn't need to fall to Slaanesh, would they? Thankfully we -know- they are shining examples of purity, goodness, and faith, this is clearly stated by GW. They are -so- holy they get special rules in combat, clearly their will and spirits are much stronger than the average war gamers, ha ha That is why they are so beautiful, the righteous revere them, and the sinful covet them.

Emperor bless and cherish you!
---Frankie

Well (good fun aside)...

A Slaanesh SoB army doesn't have to made from sisters who turned to the dark side.

I'm sure Slaanesh would not be above creating a debauched army of demonettes and worshippers who are just dressed as SoB in order to anger and provoke the real SoB. Not to mention causing confusion... Though this sounds slightly more Tzeentch's style.

Or you could fluff it up by making it a Slaaneshi army that has recently pillaged an SoB convent. That way you could have lots of nasty nasty stuff... Like sisters held captive, bound to the front of Rhinos, hung from banners, etc... You could cover all the miniature bases, with broken and looted SoB bodies and holy paraphernalia. AND! you could still have your demonettes and cultists in partially looted armour, and with looted and defaced SoB vehicles and draped mockingly in holy relics and such.

I think that would make a more interesting and believable theme, and works as a ready made scenario (fluff-wise) for any battle you have against imperial forces. E.g: Marines/IG/Grey Knights come to face down the evil forces of Slaanesh who ransacked the parish of Saint (whoever), and avenge the brave SoB who died (or worse) defending it.

I'm sure any imperial force would be disguised to see holy sisters hung from banners, with demons wearing their skin.

Having made female Chaos Space Marines (and not gotten any flak at my FLGS, for the record, only compliments, and a few time of the month jokes from friends), I think you could do chaos Sisters of Battle, just making up your own fluff. (In fact, I have considered making my Chaos "Lord" a former Sister, turned from the Emperor through jealousy of the power of Space Marines.) [Originating out of my own irritation that my options for having a significantly female presence within an army were very limited.]

I just don't think you should use Sisters models Sisters models are made of metal at this point in time. I had considered trying to deface the squad of sisters I bought when I first started 40k, but after hours of a metal file on them just to get them on the bases, I was done with trying to work with the metal. Also: If you want to have them have faces, I warn you that I have found decent female faces very difficult to find. So I'm not sure what to suggest you use as the beginnings of your conversions. However the previous idea mentioned regarding daemonettes in armor does sound absolutely fascinating. But Daemonettes are wicked to put together too (tiny plastic pieces! Some of which only go together certain ways). And in that case you'd probably have to green-stuff the armor pieces which might be weird.

To make my female CSMs, I just used greenstuff on the standard CSM chestplates. It was a lot easier than I thought, and came out really well actually. Of course, my female CSMs are fully armored, so it was a lot easier than if you went with bare-chest. (But that would be even harder with SoB as the base model. Ugh...Hate to even think about it.)

Though, I will say that maybe the reason I don't get flak about my female CSMs it is because I'm a girl myself, and that some nerds are so stunned by my presence, they don't dare say anything in case they scare me away. Or just because my fiance is with me. *shrug*

Everyone feels the pull of Chaos at some point, only takes a few to join up and make a warband. Like minded individuals gathering followers blind to their true intentions. Never know, Canoness has psychic aura able to bend the minds of others around them like that Chaos general in Kain's Last Stand where he had Battle Sisters fighting for him due to mind control.

Melissia wrote:Aside from the fact that it's completely unfluffy?

Don't be completely ridiculous.

Sisters of Slannesh is a time-honored, Fluffy army dating back to 2E.

I'm surprised GW hasn't made it official, and fully expect to see it retconned into the upcoming C: Sisters of Battle, representing the forces of "Radical" Witch Hunters.


@OP: for Sisters of Slaanesh, you'll need lots of semi-naked Sisters models, along with lots of tentacle bitz.

Good luck, and don't forget to share the pics!

FyoraSilverwolf wrote:Though, I will say that maybe the reason I don't get flak about my female CSMs it is because I'm a girl myself, and that some nerds are so stunned by my presence, they don't dare say anything in case they scare me away. Or just because my fiance is with me. *shrug*

You're lucky then, as I have the opposite experience.


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Kurgash wrote:Everyone feels the pull of Chaos at some point, only takes a few to join up and make a warband. Like minded individuals gathering followers blind to their true intentions. Never know, Canoness has psychic aura able to bend the minds of others around them like that Chaos general in Kain's Last Stand where he had Battle Sisters fighting for him due to mind control.

Any Sister found to be developing psychic powers would be lucky if they were sent off to the black ships of the Inquisition.

Melissia wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kurgash wrote:Everyone feels the pull of Chaos at some point, only takes a few to join up and make a warband. Like minded individuals gathering followers blind to their true intentions. Never know, Canoness has psychic aura able to bend the minds of others around them like that Chaos general in Kain's Last Stand where he had Battle Sisters fighting for him due to mind control.

Any Sister found to be developing psychic powers would be lucky if they were sent off to the black ships of the Inquisition.

You never know, not all psychic abilities are done through the mind. Maybe an orating speech, a rallying battle cry could hold more sway than intended...

Melissia wrote:Face it, Slaanesh is perverted. Slaanesh is the very concept of perversion. Slaanesh seduces, corrupts, violates, tortures, rapes, and every day tries to find newer more extreme kinks to get off on. This is the reason Slaanesh is never featured in any videogames. The most that he/she/it got out of them in the DoW games was a single line in DoW2's expansion, and in the WFB MMO, he/she/it only had a single enemy which was covered up and decried as unfluffy by most people who actually knew the background.

Perhaps so, but you're certainly approaching it from a rather one-dimentional perspective...

Consider the following: the Emporer's Children started their fall in the pursuit of perfection, which led to the chapter's corruption down avenues of physical modification and chemical use. They currently seek to find higher and higher means of neural stimulation through very primal, and really, rather simple means. Noise marines, for example, are generally sedate and jaded, needing the din of battle and the blasting volume and cacophony of their weapons to even stir them into interest. The use of riotous color schemes sparks the visual cortex, and, where the common humans aboard their ships at the start of the fall were reduced to a depraved orgy on the floor, the marines, themselves, descended into bloodthirsty madness.

Yes, Slaanesh is the god of lust and excess, but you seem to forget the excess part... as do a lot of people who've undergone the process of creating a corrupted SoB army. Self mutilation, loud colors, and other means of execution are often overlooked. Consider the Exorcist tank... this vehicle has so much potential for conversion into a rolling shrine to the prince of chaos, without the need for tentacles and surprise buttsex... it's a giant, rolling organ (no pun intended). add some greenstuff, and a few bits to bring it over into the realm of majestic but unsettling, and suddenly your giant pipe organ has turned into a tracked bringer of cacophony, rousing the fallen sisters into a frothing battle-rage, that they might lose themselves in the extacy and purity of their baser instincts, becoming psychotic sadomasochists, not seeking to "get off" on the pain and suffering caused in the heat of battle, but merely to elevate their otherwise over-stimulated sense of being to a point where they can actually shake off the apathy that sets in over time and realize the more primal, almost pseudosexual release to be found there.

Like I told one of the newer ork players when he started his most recent looting of a Skyray, "It's about function over form, though form does play a big role in your final execution."

A bit off topic, you say? Perhaps, but the concept still applies. Anyone can glue a bunch of extraneous bits to a vehicle and call it a looted wagon, but if you want to make it look good, you have to make it both believable and working within the aesthetic you're going for. This means that, while everyone works within the same general asymetrical basics, a good modeller will also consider their own stylistic standpoints within the aesthetic. In order to work within the realm of chaos and corruption, one must still consider the multifaceted nature of the chaos gods. Nurgle is both a creator of plague and filth as well as being portrayed as a loving, if twisted father figure. Khorne is the blood god, seeking the skulls and blood of all who tread within his sphere of influence, but also notes and rewards the prowess and martial power of his followers. The chaos gods are a symphony of duality, and if you can strike the proper balance, it'll take you a long way before you actually go astray within your given theme, and it just starts to look distasteful.

Perhaps you don't agree with me, and given that this is the internet, I know i'm not likely to change your views on the matter, but I just wanted to put out there that, despite the majority's penchant for S&M sisters and putrescent plague-carriers, there are still avenues that seem to go untouched that should still be considered before closing oneself off from actual discussion on the issue.

just my $.02...

^Truth.

I'd love to see tastefully executed excess, using sisters or otherwise. Someone had mentioned a lack of such things in another thread, which made me inclined to make my Slaanesh-following Chaos "Lord" (Lady) fully armored like the rest of my female Chaos Space Marines, but in a wonderful (albeit cliche) combination of Liche Purple and Shining Gold. And if I felt confident enough in sculpting, I'd also add on some fur coats or something. (I don't think real fur would work...) Or if I had some old necklaces lying around I'd put gold chains in various places.

Melissia wrote:Aside from the fact that it's completely unfluffy?

It's not completely unfluffy - in "Grey Knights" in the final confrontation Alaric and his 3 squads fought against Guardsmen and Sisters who were told by the rogue Inquisitor that the Grey Knights are actually Chaos servants. It was only for Canoness' Ludmilla experience that the Sisters recognised the Knights as being on the same side. They were actually fighting on the side of the Daemons for a while, although without defacing the Imperial iconography etc.

Which means they were tricked, not worshipping Chaos. If the Ultramarines were conned by a sorcerer into destroying a loyalist outpost, would you say they're chaos worshippers?

Kurgash wrote:You never know, not all psychic abilities are done through the mind. Maybe an orating speech, a rallying battle cry could hold more sway than intended...

Yes, I would know. Sisters regularly go through purity checks, penitence, and confessions-- as just a part of their way of life.

FyoraSilverwolf wrote:I'd love to see tastefully executed excess

That's a contradiction in terms.

Melissia wrote:Which means they were tricked, not worshipping Chaos. If the Ultramarines were conned by a sorcerer into destroying a loyalist outpost, would you say they're chaos worshippers?

No, but the Inquisition would, and it's a slippery downhill slope from there.

Ultramarine gets tricked into serving Tzeentch.
Inquisitor accuses Ultramarine of heresy.
Ultramarine, in a fit of self-preservation, kills Inquisitor.
Herald of Tzeentch comes to Ultramarine, points out that he's screwed, mentions a convenient way out of all this.
Ultramarine now serves Tzeentch.

Who's to say something similar couldn't happen with a Sister?

I am. I don't know if you noticed, but self-preservation is not necessarily high on the list of traits associated with the Adepta Sororitas given their current fluff.


edit: Personally I think I'm gonna agree with Alpharius, in that this is basically the same as FSM-- do it if you want, but it's still unfluffy. Second edition fluff states only a single Sister has ever fallen to Chaos in the history of the Sisterhood-- Miriael Sabathiel. This continues to stand, as the third edition codex doesn't contradict it.

Melissia wrote:I am. I don't know if you noticed, but self-preservation is not necessarily high on the list of traits associated with the Adepta Sororitas given their current fluff.


edit: Personally I think I'm gonna agree with Alpharius, in that this is basically the same as FSM-- do it if you want, but it's still unfluffy. Second edition fluff states only a single Sister has ever fallen to Chaos in the history of the Sisterhood-- Miriael Sabathiel. This continues to stand, as the third edition codex doesn't contradict it.

And the Beauty of 40k is that everything, if given a proper back story, can be fluffy as your army is played according to the story you wrote for them. Will some people gnash their teeth in claiming they don't like it and it's not according to their fluff? Sure but that is how people are, they don't like an idea they will shoot it down regardless of execution. I'd like to see the end result myself, sounds one hell of a project.

Melissia wrote:I am. I don't know if you noticed, but self-preservation is not necessarily high on the list of traits associated with the Adepta Sororitas given their current fluff.


edit: Personally I think I'm gonna agree with Alpharius, in that this is basically the same as FSM-- do it if you want, but it's still unfluffy. Second edition fluff states only a single Sister has ever fallen to Chaos in the history of the Sisterhood-- Miriael Sabathiel. This continues to stand, as the third edition codex doesn't contradict it.

Personally I think that if SM, Inquisitors et al can fall to chaos then the basic human psyches of Sisters will be susceptible to to corruption no matter how many checks and balances are in place.


No matter what 2nd fluff states there is the possibility of corruption amongst the Adepts Sororitas.

Done well Choas Sisters Minis in an army will look great, get to it OP!

Maybe it's possible. It's still never happened though, and since it's been stated only a single Sister has ever fallen in such a way, it's still unfluffy.

I'm not saying don't make the army. Go ahead, do whatever the hell you want, no skin off my back. I just commented that it's unfluffy before I started giving advice.

I don't think there needs to be fluff. I think it will be a visually appealing army and wil make the player happy. If I had the opportunity to game with someone who had a cool army and smiled, well, that would be better than gaming with all the grumpy guys with the unpainted armies.

Comintern wrote:so they are Mashocist? Thats even better.

But hey, you are probably right. Im sure 99% of the people will look at that army and think they are all crack fiends looking for spoons and needle, or perhaps taking binge drinking to excess.


Though, why not make them Chaos Undivided? Or does that not exist anymore? I havent bothered buying either the Daemon or the Chaos Latest Codex. But it seems like a "fallen sister" army would fall into the Word Bearer scheme rather nicely.

It's Chaos Glory now. And I do have a Fallen SoB as a Daemon Princes to lead my Word Bearers. Hmm, I don't remember if I ever put pics of her in my gallery...meh. I better not....Boobies and all.

Melissia wrote:Maybe it's possible. It's still never happened though, and since it's been stated only a single Sister has ever fallen in such a way, it's still unfluffy.

Oh, please. SMs fall to Chaos ALL THE TIME. Guardsmen turn to Chaos ALL THE TIME. The Sisters aren't so special. Just one has been "caught" and cannot be swept under the rug.

Sisters of Slaaneesh are extremely Fluffy, or we wouldn't have players doing this all the time.

Melissia wrote:

FyoraSilverwolf wrote:I'd love to see tastefully executed excess

That's a contradiction in terms.

I call your bluff, because I know the definitions of those words, and I'm at a loss as to how you get a contradiction out of them.

Anything unnecessary is 'excess'/'excessive', but that does not mean it's not tasteful. Sure, it isn't always tasteful to have unnecessary things, but it's not always distasteful or ugly. Prime example: Art is unnecessary. Do you think the Mona Lisa is distasteful? The Statue of Liberty? The Eiffel Tower? Maybe the Washington Monument, but only if you have a dirty mind.

The essence of Slaanesh, for me, is Hedonism. Which includes far beyond sex, because people can derive pleasure out of anything, even praying to their God-Emperor. I can imagine a SoB praying to the Emperor and thinking he's talking back when it's actually Slaanesh. Replace 'Emperor' with the Christian god and 'Slaanesh' with Satan, and you've got something that was very commonly talked about at the churches I've been to. It might start as a trick, but if the Sister allowed herself to enjoy the actions she was directed to complete because they were given from the Emperor, I could see her falling very quickly. In the Blood Raven novels, a very similar thing happens to Gabriel Angelos, look at the actions it caused him to do.

I had an interesting idea whilst reading this thread.

The remnants of a sisters force are captured and taken to a daemon world, populated by both daemons and the lost and the damned (along the lines of the khorne planet in one of the grey knights books).

They are listed K.I.A. on imperial records.

They manage an escape from their prison on this daemon world, and fight their way across it after locating the cache where their wargear had been stashed.
After a prolonged struggle and constant spiritual attacks from the whispers of daemons, they finally "break" when offered a chance to leave the daemon world and take vengeance on those who destroyed their sisters by a powerful, but still minor warp-enitity (MALAL?! ) who asks not their alliegence, just that they accept the boon of his gifts for use in their war against chaos. They swell with daemonic power and their armour fuses to them. Their bolters vomit forth bolts of pure aether that disrupt the forms of daemons.

Their loyalty to the emperor stands, but knowing they will never be embraced back into the imperium due to their altered physical (but not spiritual) forms, begin their own "black crusade" to find death in absolution (a la sisters repentia) and destroy as many enemies of the god emperor as they can before death claims them...

JohnHwangDD wrote:Oh, please. SMs fall to Chaos ALL THE TIME. Guardsmen turn to Chaos ALL THE TIME. The Sisters aren't so special.

Yes, they are. You're talking about an organisation whose members are granted literal miracles, are unusually resistant to warp influence and whose primary purpose is to exterminate the kinds of people that fall to Chaos. Hell, we have that quote from the 2nd Edition codex that practically says, "Yes! They are that special!"

Sisters of Slaaneesh are extremely Fluffy, or we wouldn't have players doing this all the time.

Your logic is flawed. Players doing this all the time only means that there are lots of players who like doing this. It doesn't mean that it doesn't fly in the face of the defining feature of the army's canon.

AlexHolker wrote:

Sisters of Slaaneesh are extremely Fluffy, or we wouldn't have players doing this all the time.

Your logic is flawed. Players doing this all the time only means that there are lots of players who like doing this. It doesn't mean that it doesn't fly in the face of the defining feature of the army's canon.

Actually the logic people are using that say Khornate SoB are more fluffy would be just as flawed. If SoB would fall to Chaos at all, why would it even matter they were following a specific Chaos god or even Chaos Glory. The fact would be they fell, they are no longer who they were and because of that their predilections would have changed as well. So really fallen SoB following Slaneesh is just as viable as SoB following Khorne or whichever Chaos god you want.

Oh, please. And what's the mission of the SMs? Or how about the Inquisition? Right!

As shown in the Eisenhorn novels, you can become a follower of Chaos without realizing it. Quixos was one of the greatest Inquisitors of his day and in the end he subverted, corrupted and killed countless Imperial servants and citizens, all in the name of saving the Imperium from Chaos.

I think the same principal applies to Slaaneshi Sisters. Slaanesh is the Prince(ess) of among other things, excess, and if there's anything the Sisters have in abundance, it's zeal. It's not too difficult to imagine a group of Sisters would become so blinded by their single-minded devotion to destroying the slightest taint of Chaos that they start seeing corruption everywhere. They could depose their planetary governor for something as small as nepotism or even a perceived lack of piety and never realize their actions have caused far more harm than the "tainted" governor ever did.

Exactly. Hyper-Puritans are indistinguishable from Chaos.

FyoraSilverwolf wrote:

Melissia wrote:

FyoraSilverwolf wrote:I'd love to see tastefully executed excess

That's a contradiction in terms.

I call your bluff

"Tasteful" is subjective. I believe it lies in the subtle. Excessive therefor cannot be tasteful.


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JohnHwangDD wrote:Oh, please. SMs fall to Chaos ALL THE TIME.

Tell me when I should start caring. The fact that only a single Sister has fallen in the ~five to six thousand years since they were created is completely separate from the fact that MArines fall all the time.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Sisters of Slaaneesh are extremely Fluffy, or we wouldn't have players doing this all the time.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Exactly. Hyper-Puritans are indistinguishable from Chaos.

I laughed so hard when I realised what you were doing.

The Dizzler wrote:As shown in the Eisenhorn novels, you can become a follower of Chaos without realizing it. Quixos was one of the greatest Inquisitors of his day and in the end he subverted, corrupted and killed countless Imperial servants and citizens, all in the name of saving the Imperium from Chaos.

I think the same principal applies to Slaaneshi Sisters. Slaanesh is the Prince(ess) of among other things, excess, and if there's anything the Sisters have in abundance, it's zeal. It's not too difficult to imagine a group of Sisters would become so blinded by their single-minded devotion to destroying the slightest taint of Chaos that they start seeing corruption everywhere. They could depose their planetary governor for something as small as nepotism or even a perceived lack of piety and never realize their actions have caused far more harm than the "tainted" governor ever did.

Quixos was a Radical. Opposite of Puritan. The worst a Puritan can do is execute every psyker they come across, which doesn't make sense as the Emperor himself was a Psyker and the Imperium needs Psykers just to function.
I don't know if only one sister has fallen to chaos (of course possesion etc is a different thing entirely), as I think I remember two seperate stories of this happening. But I do know whole convents don't suddenly go rouge which seems to happen so often to SM and IG. They've got a pretty good track record all things considered.

Rymafyr wrote:Actually the logic people are using that say Khornate SoB are more fluffy would be just as flawed.

Khornate SoB is less unfluffy than Slaaneshi SoB, since you need to remove less of what makes a Sister of Battle a Sister of Battle for such a warband to exist.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Oh, please. And what's the mission of the SMs?

To exterminate anything from orks to CSM. They may be stronger and tougher than the SoB, but they're more vulnerable to warp influence.

Or how about the Inquisition? Right!

And how often has an Inquisitor fallen to Chaos, let alone entire cells of Inquisitors?

Emperors Faithful wrote:I think I remember two seperate stories of this happening.

Yes, Black Library has had stories that violate the fluff. It's nothing new under the astronomican, as it were.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Quixos was a Radical. Opposite of Puritan. The worst a Puritan can do is execute every psyker they come across, which doesn't make sense as the Emperor himself was a Psyker and the Imperium needs Psykers just to function.
I don't know if only one sister has fallen to chaos (of course possesion etc is a different thing entirely), as I think I remember two seperate stories of this happening. But I do know whole convents don't suddenly go rouge which seems to happen so often to SM and IG. They've got a pretty good track record all things considered.

Quixos didn't start out radical. He started out every bit as puritan as newly-minted Inquisitor could be. Hundreds of years after his apparent disappearance, his writings were still used to teach and indoctrinate young Schola students and he was a role model for Interrogators and Inquisitors across the Galaxy. Even when he was hunted down by the Imperium he never acknowledged that he was anything other than the most puritanical agent of the Inquisition. Despite using daemonhosts, despite physical mutations, despite loosing dozens of alpha-plus level Chaos-tainted psyker loose in a hive city, despite killing countless Imperial agents and citizens with intent to kill countless more, he died firmly believing that everything he had done was completely justified.

This, of course, is exactly my point with how an convent of Sisters could conceivably fall to Slaanesh. They become so zealous and fanatical that they don't even realize that the measures they're taking so stop Chaos from spreading are just making things worse. It's like Wile E. Coyote chasing the Roadrunner over a cliff. He doesn't even notice he's fallen until it's far too late.

@All Anti-Sisters of Slanesh posters..... You say perverted like it is a bad thing. Surely it is not any worse than trying to shame someone else for your own personal hang-ups.

@OP- They are your models, do with them what you will. If you really need a justification for how such would have come to pass, then look at human nature. By using human nature and usual behavior patterns your Sisters of Slanesh would be spot on. Why? Because, When the faithful/true believers fall from grace, they fall the furthest. They will, in their anger at the deity that failed them, abandon all that they were to become the opposite.
Maybe some Demonettes are really all that remains of SoBs that fell in battle while not in a complete state of grace (they were fighting for their own personal hatred rather than the Emperor) and they felt betrayed that the Emperor didn't protect them. There is plenty of room for you to be creative, have fun with it.

I chose Sisters of Battle partly because they -are- better than the space marines and inquisitors. GW says they are pure and good, and they are lovely. But alas it's human nature to drag down those who soar above mediocrity and failings of the common man.

I don't have a problem with the occasional Sister falling from grace. While only one sister ever fell from grace up to the 2nd edition of the rule book, one can claim this means is possible as much as one can claim this means it happens only once in a blue moon.

Sisters are human, and they sin. We wouldn't have Repentia if they did not. But even so, Sisters are not the average woman, they are much, much more.

Still, speculation is fun, but too much talk about the loveliest flowers of the Imperium falling from grace gets depressing. At least, I think so. I love them because they give me hope for the Imperium. May they shine their light in the grim dark as long as the stars blaze in the cosmos' sea of night!

--- Be well, be blessed!
--- Frankie

Melissia wrote:

FyoraSilverwolf wrote:

Melissia wrote:

FyoraSilverwolf wrote:I'd love to see tastefully executed excess

That's a contradiction in terms.

I call your bluff

"Tasteful" is subjective. I believe it lies in the subtle. Excessive therefor cannot be tasteful.

Which is merely your statement of your personal opinion... which is just as subjective as anyone else's.

A yacht is a major piece of material excess. A yacht with a well-appointed interior is even more excessive. Does this mean a well-executed design, both interior and exterior are considered "distateful"?

I fail to see how your logic is achieving anything other than you screaming about how your way is right, and that there is, in no possible manner of speaking, a way for a sister to fall to chaos... especially among the possibilities of things as simple as a chaos cult becoming a gross parody of their enemy, all the way up to the corruption of an entire soroitas convent, implausible as that might be.

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JohnHwangDD wrote:Oh, please. SMs fall to Chaos ALL THE TIME.

Tell me when I should start caring. The fact that only a single Sister has fallen in the ~five to six thousand years since they were created is completely separate from the fact that MArines fall all the time.

Perhaps so, but the galaxy is wide and the administratum is slow to update it's information. How is it that others can stretch the fluff to fit their armies and somehow your beloved sisters' fluff seems to be entirely invioble?

It seems like someone's got a touch of fangirlism going on here....

Dronze wrote:Perhaps so, but the galaxy is wide and the administratum is slow to update it's information.

Indeed. The galaxy is a big place and there are gaps in information everywhere. Furthermore, most codices are written from an Imperial POV, that business with only one sister falling to Chaos in the history of ever may very well be Imperial propaganda. There are certainly several examples of entire convents of Sisters being duped by agents of the Ruinous Powers, it's not much of a stretch of the imagination to see them actively working for them.

Petite Francois wrote:I chose Sisters of Battle partly because they -are- better than the space marines and inquisitors. GW says they are pure and good, and they are lovely. But alas it's human nature to drag down those who soar above mediocrity and failings of the common man.

I don't have a problem with the occasional Sister falling from grace. While only one sister ever fell from grace up to the 2nd edition of the rule book, one can claim this means is possible as much as one can claim this means it happens only once in a blue moon.

Sisters are human, and they sin. We wouldn't have Repentia if they did not. But even so, Sisters are not the average woman, they are much, much more.

Still, speculation is fun, but too much talk about the loveliest flowers of the Imperium falling from grace gets depressing. At least, I think so. I love them because they give me hope for the Imperium. May they shine their light in the grim dark as long as the stars blaze in the cosmos' sea of night!

--- Be well, be blessed!
--- Frankie

This is a perfect example of why Sisters are not immune to the powers of Chaos. Yes, they're faithful and devoted and all that jazz, but they're also zealous and arrogant. They're so convinced of their own moral superiority, they can easily justify any action they take. They're so convinced they're such paragons of virtue and purity that nothing they do could be wrong, even if they're burning down a peaceful rural village because they heard a rumor that there was a Chaos cult operating there.

Dronze wrote:

Melissia wrote:

FyoraSilverwolf wrote:

Melissia wrote:

FyoraSilverwolf wrote:I'd love to see tastefully executed excess

That's a contradiction in terms.

I call your bluff [See the rest of this post here]

"Tasteful" is subjective. I believe it lies in the subtle. Excessive therefor cannot be tasteful.

Which is merely your statement of your personal opinion... which is just as subjective as anyone else's.

A yacht is a major piece of material excess. A yacht with a well-appointed interior is even more excessive. Does this mean a well-executed design, both interior and exterior are considered "distateful"?

I fail to see how your logic is achieving anything other than you screaming about how your way is right, and that there is, in no possible manner of speaking, a way for a sister to fall to chaos... especially among the possibilities of things as simple as a chaos cult becoming a gross parody of their enemy, all the way up to the corruption of an entire soroitas convent, implausible as that might be.

QFT. Thanks for saying what I would've said.
Also, to include a link to my full post, instead of the shortened version that makes me seem like a jerk.

The Dizzler wrote:

This is a perfect example of why Sisters are not immune to the powers of Chaos. Yes, they're faithful and devoted and all that jazz, but they're also zealous and arrogant. They're so convinced of their own moral superiority, they can easily justify any action they take. They're so convinced they're such paragons of virtue and purity that nothing they do could be wrong, even if they're burning down a peaceful rural village because they heard a rumor that there was a Chaos cult operating there.

Hello Dizzler,
Sisters of Battle are morally superior to the common citizen. Not because I say, so, GW says so. GW rarely makes moral assessments of it's factions, but when they say the dark eldar are evil, I believe them. When GW says the Sisters are good, I believe that as well. If you choose to imagine this makes them somehow morally blind to their own short comings, well, that's your right to believe.

Actually Sisters of Battle tend to be hyper-sensitive about their own short comings. Again, hence the Repentia. Are you sure you're not confusing them with modern day televangelists? *j/k!*

Show me an example of Sisters burning down a peaceful rural village because of a rumor that there was a Chaos cult operating there? Is there any example of this? Or are you imagining it for the sake of the argument? But I do not say they are perfect, only that they are not willfully evil.

Have a great week! Hope you got some good games in!
---Frankie

The idea is good, if pulled off right. Many people already hit the nail on the head with this, but Slaanesh is the god of excess in all forms. Lust is one of them, but there are so many more to exploit.

Sight, sound, sent are big on the battlefield. Fluff wise, screaming bolters and the like should excite them big time, as well as generally seeing pain and suffering in their opponets and themselves, on top of the whole scantly clad thing.

Make them cruel and sadistic on top of lustful, and you got an army that serves the lord of excess well.

Petite Francois wrote:Sisters of Battle are morally superior to the common citizen. Not because I say, so, GW says so. GW rarely makes moral assessments of it's factions, but when they say the dark eldar are evil, I believe them. When GW says the Sisters are good, I believe that as well.

If you look at any given faction, they can be "good" or "evil" depending on one's perspective. the 40k universe isn't D&D... there is no objective good or evil here, there is only war. Devotion to the Emperor does not predispose ANYONE to not saying, doing, or being anything to advance their own faction's agenda, even to the detriment of it's own broader faction's goals and well-being.

If you want to make the claim that the Militant Nuns of the Catholic Space Nazis are any more or less "good" than, say, the Tau (who pursue the "greater good" in terms of their own species) or the Tyranids (who don't care about anything more than their own survival through the eating of anything and anyone in their path) because they set people on fire and torture them horrifically, or kill anything without 2 arms, 2 legs, and a complexion that ranges in what we people might refer to as "flesh tones", then, by all means, you're entitled to your opinion.

I dunno about you, but if I set fire to anyone who didn't follow the same religion as myself, or started on a campaign of genocide and zealotry, I think I would be branded as evil, don't you? The name these things are done in serve only as justification to those doing it.

Show me an example of Sisters burning down a peaceful rural village because of a rumor that there was a Chaos cult operating there? Is there any example of this? Or are you imagining it for the sake of the argument?

*pokes about* i'll find something here....

"When the people forget their duty they are no longer human and become something less than beasts. They have no place in the bosom of humanity nor in the heart of the Emperor. Let them die and be forgotten "

Seems a bit cold to becalled objectively "good", no?

But I do not say they are perfect, only that they are not willfully evil.

Again, I reiterate, they kill those that do not believe as they do... that certainly doesn't make them GOOD, either.

Petite Francois wrote:Hello Dizzler,
Sisters of Battle are morally superior to the common citizen. Not because I say, so, GW says so. GW rarely makes moral assessments of it's factions, but when they say the dark eldar are evil, I believe them. When GW says the Sisters are good, I believe that as well. If you choose to imagine this makes them somehow morally blind to their own short comings, well, that's your right to believe.

Actually Sisters of Battle tend to be hyper-sensitive about their own short comings. Again, hence the Repentia. Are you sure you're not confusing them with modern day televangelists? *j/k!*

Show me an example of Sisters burning down a peaceful rural village because of a rumor that there was a Chaos cult operating there? Is there any example of this? Or are you imagining it for the sake of the argument? But I do not say they are perfect, only that they are not willfully evil.

Have a great week! Hope you got some good games in!
---Frankie

I was using the "burn down a village on hearsay" as an example of Sisters going off the deep end, not even noticing that they're so wrapped up in their own moral superiority that they don't notice the harm they're doing.

Other than that, Dronze said what I'm too inarticulate to.

Hello Dronze,
Cultural relativity is an illusion. Yes, I have made the choice to believe that the God Emperor is the one who determines good and evil in the 40K universe. Sisters of Battle are human beings, not eldar, genestealers, or Slaanesh cultists. Therefore, the perspective of the Imperium is what matters to them, and takes precedence over the faiths of the xenos and heretics. A sister of battle is only obligated to do the good that is within her power, and as far as she understands it. So I will clarify, from the perspective of the Imperial Ecclesiarchy, they are good, pure, and faithful. As for what the Ork and the Daemon think of them, I care not.

'Nazi's'? No, the Nazi's didn't do what they did to save the human race. Yes, I will believe the Sisters of Battle are good. In 40K, heretics -do- threaten the survival of humanity. Witches -do- consort with daemons and it has been stated by Games Workshop that whole worlds fall to chaos because of these threats. To allow these to go unchecked is to allow the extinction of mankind.

You oversimplify to make your point. This is not a case of the Sisters killing people because they don't like their favorite color or taste in music. Without the eccleciarchy to unite humanity in a common belief, the Empire would have no rallying point in this twilight of the Universe. The Sisters are not wantonly slaughtering people for trivial nothings!

You say 'they kill those that do not believe as they do...that doesn't make them Good, either'. I would suggest that depends on what they believe. If they believe the Emperor is God, that humanity must survive, that morality is a good thing, then those that oppose their beliefs are evil.

If I believe rape is wrong, and someone does not believe as I do (a mongol raider perhaps), and he starts raping someone, if I kill him, I dare to believe I am standing for righteousness. If I shoot him 'cause he's not white, sure, that makes me evil. And that is why I say, the Sisters are justified based on what they believe and on the crimes of those who oppose those beliefs.

Well, that is what I think. But I can understand what you are saying is applicable to our real world. I just don't think it applies to 40K and the Imperium.

--- Be well,
Frankie

Dronze wrote:I dunno about you, but if I set fire to anyone who didn't follow the same religion as myself, or started on a campaign of genocide and zealotry, I think I would be branded as evil, don't you? The name these things are done in serve only as justification to those doing it.

The reason setting fire to people for following a different religion or being a different race is evil isn't because it's ethic clensing, it's because setting fire to anyone without legitimate justification is evil.

The problem is that in a fantasy setting, sometimes it is justified. Anybody who would support the actions of Nurgle, the passive-aggressive, abusive husband of the universe, is evil. The fact that they're barracking for a powerful warp entity instead of some mortal lowlife like Charles Manson or Ted Bundy doesn't change that.

Petite Francois wrote:
Cultural relativity is an illusion. Yes, I have made the choice to believe that the God Emperor is the one who determines good and evil in the 40K universe.

Reread what you just typed. I highlighted it for you. Now about this statement, the only positive thing I can say about it is that at least you admit it is a choice as opposed to fact.

Petite Francois wrote: Sisters of Battle are human beings, not eldar, genestealers, or Slaanesh cultists. Therefore, the perspective of the Imperium is what matters to them, and takes precedence over the faiths of the xenos and heretics. A sister of battle is only obligated to do the good that is within her power, and as far as she understands it. So I will clarify, from the perspective of the Imperial Ecclesiarchy, they are good, pure, and faithful. As for what the Ork and the Daemon think of them, I care not.

A)SoB are models, little toy soldiers that we kids can let our imagination run free with and play "pretend" with according to our tastes, creative abilities and desires.

B)You seem to be arguing here, that if a corrupt political entity declares you infallable, any abuse of power or crime you commit is not evil. Are you sure that you want to make that argument, especially in light of what you say in the next sentence?

C)So blindly following orders makes you good? We will save this for the next line down.

Petite Francois wrote:'Nazi's'? No, the Nazi's didn't do what they did to save the human race. Yes, I will believe the Sisters of Battle are good. In 40K, heretics -do- threaten the survival of humanity. Witches -do- consort with daemons and it has been stated by Games Workshop that whole worlds fall to chaos because of these threats. To allow these to go unchecked is to allow the extinction of mankind.

A)The average nazi soldier just followed orders, by your previous argument they would be good and pure.

B)You left out the Peaceful xenos that are killed just for being different, and the humans that are purged for working with aliens to survive when the Imperium neglects and leaves them to die. Your argument indicates that peace would be a threat to humanity, which means that the SoB wold have to purge peace.

Petite Francois wrote:You oversimplify to make your point. This is not a case of the Sisters killing people because they don't like their favorite color or taste in music. Without the eccleciarchy to unite humanity in a common belief, the Empire would have no rallying point in this twilight of the Universe. The Sisters are not wantonly slaughtering people for trivial nothings!

Are you sure about this? Have you read all of the back stories pertaining to the sisters?

Remember, If an inquisitor gets it in his head that a planetary govenor has become corrupted he can call for the sisters to purge the capital city or go as far as to declare exterminatus and have the SoB burn those individuals trying to flee for thier lives.

Petite Francois wrote:You say 'they kill those that do not believe as they do...that doesn't make them Good, either'. I would suggest that depends on what they believe. If they believe the Emperor is God, that humanity must survive, that morality is a good thing, then those that oppose their beliefs are evil.

And if they believe in working together peacefully and equatably? If they are just out on the fringe trying to survive?

Petite Francois wrote:If I believe rape is wrong, and someone does not believe as I do (a mongol raider perhaps), and he starts raping someone, if I kill him, I dare to believe I am standing for righteousness. If I shoot him 'cause he's not white, sure, that makes me evil. And that is why I say, the Sisters are justified based on what they believe and on the crimes of those who oppose those beliefs.

So, being an alien is = rape.

Thing is that the SoB do exactly that, they kill those who are different simply because they are different. To argue otherwise is to close yoour eyes as to the dark nature of the universe that the game is set in.

I'm just going to work on this little bit for now.

focusedfire wrote:

A)The average nazi soldier just followed orders, by your previous argument they would be good and pure.

German Soldiers weren't all members of the Nazi Party, common mistake. Your history may need a quick brushover.

B)You left out the Peaceful xenos that are killed just for being different, and the humans that are purged for working with aliens to survive when the Imperium neglects and leaves them to die. Your argument indicates that peace would be a threat to humanity, which means that the SoB wold have to purge peace.

Er...no it doesn't. You see, the Imperium is in a state of constant war, so peace is never going to be a problem. Now, if Ghandi the 40th or something started preaching passive resistance (which would mean the Imperium would fail against pretty much all races) then yes the SoB would have to get rid of him and his teachings becuase they pose a threat to the existence of the Imperium. Not because it preaches peace, but becuase trying to make peace would lead to destruction.

Dear FocusedFire,
Though my pride and ego would like to discuss this a bit more, it is occurring to me that I have been party to hi-jacking this post. I should know better than to discuss ethics and morality on the internet, but I thought it safe in a role play about the Sisters of Battle. This conversation is getting too close to a serious debate on real life ethics for my tastes, but I'd rather paint than get into a heavy and ponderous discussion that neither of us would enjoy.

I will simply make my closing statement a quote from the latest incarnation of the Witch Hunter codex: "The Sisters of Battle are shining examples of all that is good about humanity, the pinnacle of faith, devotion and purity." Like you said, it's a game, so, that's all the statement is worth

To the original poster, have you seen this model? If you don't mind using a non-GW model, it has some potential for your fallen Sisters, don't you think? Maybe a character?

http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity_ENG/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=119:juana-de-arco&catid=39:panoceania&Itemid=148

If I stepped on any toes, sorry about that. Though we disagree, we are all gamers, and that matters to me!

--- Frankie

Emperors Faithful wrote:

focusedfire wrote:

A)The average nazi soldier just followed orders, by your previous argument they would be good and pure.

German Soldiers weren't all members of the Nazi Party, common mistake. Your history may need a quick brushover.

I never said that they were all nazis, You might want to reread my statement and those made prior concerning nazis. The subject had been brought up and if I had used the words " average german soldier" instead of average nazi soldier I would have then been equating the two. I chose my words carefully because I did not want to imply such. Kinda ironic, huh?

Emperors Faithful wrote:

focusedfire wrote:B)You left out the Peaceful xenos that are killed just for being different, and the humans that are purged for working with aliens to survive when the Imperium neglects and leaves them to die. Your argument indicates that peace would be a threat to humanity, which means that the SoB wold have to purge peace.

Er...no it doesn't. You see, the Imperium is in a state of constant war, so peace is never going to be a problem. Now, if Ghandi the 40th or something started preaching passive resistance (which would mean the Imperium would fail against pretty much all races) then yes the SoB would have to get rid of him and his teachings becuase they pose a threat to the existence of the Imperium. Not because it preaches peace, but becuase trying to make peace would lead to destruction.

Your arguing symantics. The policies described effectively preclude the possibility of peaceful co-existence. As such the imperium and the inquisition, especially, have declared war on the concept of peace.

But this is a topic for another thread

Catch you later

Petite Francois wrote:Dear FocusedFire,
Though my pride and ego would like to discuss this a bit more, it is occurring to me that I have been party to hi-jacking this post. I should know better than to discuss ethics and morality on the internet, but I thought it safe in a role play about the Sisters of Battle. This conversation is getting too close to a serious debate on real life ethics for my tastes, but I'd rather paint than get into a heavy and ponderous discussion that neither of us would enjoy.

I will simply make my closing statement a quote from the latest incarnation of the Witch Hunter codex: "The Sisters of Battle are shining examples of all that is good about humanity, the pinnacle of faith, devotion and purity." Like you said, it's a game, so, that's all the statement is worth

To the original poster, have you seen this model? If you don't mind using a non-GW model, it has some potential for your fallen Sisters, don't you think? Maybe a character?

http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity_ENG/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=119:juana-de-arco&catid=39:panoceania&Itemid=148

If I stepped on any toes, sorry about that. Though we disagree, we are all gamers, and that matters to me!

--- Frankie

@Petite Francois- No problem, but just an FYI, I don't mind the discussions. This is because I don't take them personally, rather they are interesting windows into the various differing personal philosoplies that people embrace.

And no, you have not stepped on any toes of which I am aware. Rather, you have been the personification of proper form and courtesy through the written word.

May the wind be always at your back,

Later

AlexHolker wrote:The reason setting fire to people for following a different religion or being a different race is evil isn't because it's ethic clensing, it's because setting fire to anyone without legitimate justification is evil.

Except for when they kill mutants for being too divergent from good human stock.

While Sebastian Thor himself was a pacifist, he only practiced pacifism within the Imperium. He still sent the six founding Sisters out on their crusades.

Petite Francois wrote:Hello Dronze,
Cultural relativity is an illusion. Yes, I have made the choice to believe that the God Emperor is the one who determines good and evil in the 40K universe. Sisters of Battle are human beings, not eldar, genestealers, or Slaanesh cultists. Therefore, the perspective of the Imperium is what matters to them, and takes precedence over the faiths of the xenos and heretics. A sister of battle is only obligated to do the good that is within her power, and as far as she understands it. So I will clarify, from the perspective of the Imperial Ecclesiarchy, they are good, pure, and faithful. As for what the Ork and the Daemon think of them, I care not.

What I'm reading here is not that cultural relativity is an illusion, but that it does exist, and you're merely choosing to ignore it, and take the imperial viewpoint on the matter. While I could care less about that point, it also leads you to being inherantly biased against a simple, neutral observation... the fact that "good" and "evil" as objective concepts within the 40k universe are, at best, dependant upon the viewpoint of the observer, and at worst, nonexistant.

The choice to ignore this doesn't change the fact that it is, for all intents and purposes, true. Does the lack of an objective, universal moral structure within the game preclude things such as malice or contempt? Not at all... The Imperium would sooner sacrifice the entirety of their own holdings than to lose Holy Terra to the hands of xenos, and would gladly exterminate entire civilian populations of their own to achieve this.

'Nazi's'? No, the Nazi's didn't do what they did to save the human race.

If the Nazis didn't do what they did to save the human race, then what do you call the concept of "master race", or the cleansing of "impure" blood from the gene pool?

I'd call that an attempt at salvation, no matter how misguided. They believed they were most fit to inherit the planet, and took the needed steps to bring them to their vision of an Aryan utopia. You seem to refuse to look at situations objectively from a neutral, third-party perspective, and for that reason, you seem to be missing the point.

Hello DakkaDakka!

Flaming_Spider, have you seen these?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440336a&prodId=prod1110275

I don't know if that's supposed to be a Sister of Battle or not, personally I think a Sister of Battle would commit suicide before becoming a Dark Eldar plaything. But the head looks like a Sister, maybe you can use it for conversions?

Dronze: So sorry, I disagree with your interpretations of my points, but that is fine. I will refrain from continuing this discussion, but thanks for your input.

Have a great week everyone!
Emperor bless and cherish you!
Frankie

I'd say anyone complaining that it doesn't follow the story that GW set up in the fluff should just pack up their SoB models and leave them at home. After all, they're witch hunters right? Why are they going out and fighting other marine chapters, orks, necrons, or the tau? How does that make sense in your fluff? Do you refuse to play a list that includes Eldrad? He's dead in the story right? So shouldn't you be raging about that too?

Also, as a comical note, I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw someone posting that they weren't discouraging someone from making this army just after saying that everyone (which I assume included themselves) would think they were a pervy loser... talk about self contradiction.

edited for pun: The only time anyone should care about "canon" in 40k is when it shoots blast templates.

SamplesoWoopass wrote: After all, they're witch hunters right?

You know that odd feeling you get when in a movie someone mentions the name of the film as par and part of their dialogue?

Codex name aside, the Sisters are far more then 'witch hunters'.
They are the army of the Ecclesiarchy. They do common and constant purity checks across the Imperium, they conduct the wars of faith, they are defenders of almost every shrine, church and cathedral in the Imperium, they are often at the fore-front of any defence of a planet because they were there already, they will attack and fight Marine chapters who have turned from the emperor and even attempted to bring the Space Wolves in to answer for their mutations.
That's right. The Ecclesiarchy wanted to question a 1st founding chapter about their loyalty and genetic purity.

For Sisters not to fight someone is a larger departure of fluff then fighting them.

They even conduct live-fire training on occasion with other orders of Sisters so you even have fighting themselves covered.

focusedfire wrote:
I never said that they were all nazis, You might want to reread my statement and those made prior concerning nazis. The subject had been brought up and if I had used the words " average german soldier" instead of average nazi soldier I would have then been equating the two. I chose my words carefully because I did not want to imply such. Kinda ironic, huh?

I would have understood if you'd said "Average SS Soldier", it was my bad that I assumed you were lumping the German Armed Forces in with the Nazi Party, which were seperate entities. The SS however were not, and did have their own troops.

Your arguing symantics. The policies described effectively preclude the possibility of peaceful co-existence. As such the imperium and the inquisition, especially, have declared war on the concept of peace.

But this is a topic for another thread

Catch you later

Sorry, can't let you have the last word here.
Where does the Imperium actually ban the idea of peace? I don't mean "Peace" as in diplomatic relations with Xenos, as co-existence is show to lead to enslavement such as the times of the Dark Age of Technology, I mean peace as in "Not at War". It's GW that says "There can be no peace." I'm not sure that this is an Imperial mandate to any extent, in most cases they seem to be responsive to alien incursions (Damocles Crusade) not agressive.

edited for pun: The only time anyone should care about "canon" in 40k is when it shoots blast templates.

I want those 5 seconds of my life back.

SamplesoWoopass wrote:I'd say anyone complaining that it doesn't follow the story that GW set up in the fluff should just pack up their SoB models and leave them at home. After all, they're witch hunters right? Why are they going out and fighting other marine chapters, orks, necrons, or the tau?

Necrons: Revenge for Sanctuary 101.
Orks: Because they want to fight YOU.
Tau: Spreads heathen beliefs, need to be cleansed so that the human population remains pure.
Eldrad: "Counts As".

You have no idea what you're talking about.

^ This is correct. Right place, right time makes a lot of difference.

What, you think the SoB are just going to say, "Oh, wait. These are Xenos! Not heretics! Let's pack up and go ho- AUGH WHAT IS THAT ORK CHOPPA DOING IN MY SPINE!"

Xenos don't take time outs to make sure they're fighting the "right" enemy. Why should any particular branch of the Imperium?

^ Lol.

I still wish GW sold a bitz pack simply called "female Heads". Give us 10 heads for 8 bucks and I'll buy.

Then I can make Sobs out of space marines :3

*snicker* Or just mak them into FSMs and piss off more people.

Melissia wrote:*snicker* Or just mak them into FSMs and piss off more people.

I really don't understand why people get a wild hair up their arse whenever FSM's are even mentioned. Seems like a cool idea...I'd probably add a junk load of purity seals and tabards and all that jazz, just to show them off as being clearly SoBS.

Arguing the morality based off the imaginary fluff of a table-top toy soldier game. Wow, really? Just another reason why I need to drop this as a hobby so I can avoid all the hypersensitive nerd rage. Next someone will be discussing the economic and political implications of Monopoly.

Rymafyr wrote:Arguing the morality based off the imaginary fluff of a table-top toy soldier game. Wow, really? Just another reason why I need to drop this as a hobby so I can avoid all the hypersensitive nerd rage. Next someone will be discussing the economic and political implications of Monopoly.

Boardwalk is in a prime location and the property value will only go up!!!

You say it's possible for them to fight the different armies on the table top, so it's okay (well, except for marines really. That'll never make sense... as an aside, do you get angry when USM armies fight each other?) anyway... It's already been deemed possible for an SoB to fall to chaos. So, why do you get so pissed off when someone uses another army that is entirely possible, for there to be multiple SoB's who fell into chaos.

Also, the codex pretty clearly states Eldrad... So I guess you need to go write an angry letter to GW and tell them to fix that!

I sure hope you never play orks on a table full of ork terrain... Idk how you'll try to explain why the sobs went to an ork planet instead of staying home and doing the whole Spanish Inquisition thing on their own planets.

SamplesoWoopass wrote:You say it's possible for them to fight the different armies on the table top, so it's okay (well, except for marines really. That'll never make sense... as an aside, do you get angry when USM armies fight each other?) anyway... It's already been deemed possible for an SoB to fall to chaos. So, why do you get so pissed off when someone uses another army that is entirely possible, for there to be multiple SoB's who fell into chaos.

Also, the codex pretty clearly states Eldrad... So I guess you need to go write an angry letter to GW and tell them to fix that!

I sure hope you never play orks on a table full of ork terrain... Idk how you'll try to explain why the sobs went to an ork planet instead of staying home and doing the whole Spanish Inquisition thing on their own planets.

A lack of imagination is a horrible thing, sir. Use yours, it's more fun that way!

1) Sisters will fight Space Marines when and if the Inquisition deems them in some way heretical or if the Ecclesiarchy's got beef with them. This is fluffy. See Sisters v Space Wolves.

2) Sisters on an Ork planet is just fine.
a. Sisters chased a small heretic cell to a planet infested with Orks.
b. Sisters are on an Imperial planet, but that planet (like many in the galaxy) is infested with Orks.
c. Orks crashed the party on an Imperial planet with Sisters stationed there.
d. Orks attack a fringe outpost that Sisters are using as a springboard in the latest war funded by the Ecclesiarchy.
e. Ork spores bud on an Imperial planet, and the Sisters are the closest (and flamethroweriest) force, so they get the job of putting down the Ork uprising before it gets ugly.

I could go on.

Samus_aran115 wrote:^ Lol.

I still wish GW sold a bitz pack simply called "female Heads". Give us 10 heads for 8 bucks and I'll buy.

Then I can make Sobs out of space marines :3

Hi Samus_aran115,

These aren't GW, but would they be useful to you?

http://www.thewarstore.com/product53090.html

They have Amazon heads in Greek helmets too, might be an interesting look for alternate Sisters of Battle?

--- Frankie

haha, if imaginations are fun and I should use mine then why can't I use it to say chaos sisters is okay?

I agree with sisters vs SW, but not vs USM led by Calgar

SamplesoWoopass wrote:haha, if imaginations are fun and I should use mine then why can't I use it to say chaos sisters is okay?

I agree with sisters vs SW, but not vs USM led by Calgar

Didn't say you couldn't.

Oh, I must have had you confused with one of the people going "NOOO don't do it because I don't think if follows the story"

Hey I've been pro-Chaos Sisters since the beginning of this thread.

My argument in that case (and in the case of my response to you) is that fluff is extremely flexible.

You can logically make just about anything fluffy. It can be done. All it takes is some imagination and the will to make it work.

That's the cool thing about 40k.

Sweet fething Christ. A SoB thread should really not be this trolled and Godwinized. /facepalm The hostility I've seen toward this guy and his army concept is nothing short of shameful.

OT: I think it's a cool idea, and might make for some pretty great conversions. If a legion of the Adeptus Astartes could be seduced by Slaanesh there's really no reason why a bunch of Battle Sisters couldn't be.

Do whatever you want with your models and remember, haters gonna hate.

I'd actually be really interested to see someone pull of a Sisters who have fallen to Nurgle force, just as its not the sterotype 'Slaanesh' army most folks fall into.

My wife keeps muttering about doing a Tzeentch themed force, but not before she does loyalist ones.


As to the Black Library not being canon, I see plenty of folks gnashing their teeth and hoping it not to be so, but these are books and graphic novels that have been sanctioned by GW.
Does anyone seriously think the Black Library stuff gets released without someone at the Ivory tower, going 'Yep, love it, two thumbs up and release it to the masses.'

If it's got a GW stamp on it, it is canon, unless they have released an updated version of the same story, idea that overwrites it.

Needed to get my rant on there, as I see many people saying Black Library should be ignored, but unfortauntely for them, it is canon, and then need to deal with it.


I'd also point out that faith does not protect you 100% from corruption, in fact those with faith who fall can be all the more dangerous because of it. Just ask the Word Bearers about that one.

It's more than just that.

GW technically publishes all Black Library books, since Black Library, the publisher, is a subsidiary of GW.

Black Library is just as canon as that codex you love so much, Melissia. As much as it may hurt to recognize it, it's the truth.

Black Library isn't any more canon than fanon to me. Or do you forget that Black Library contradicts itself and the codices rather frequently?

The codex is the primary and most important source of fluff for the army. Black Library comes afterwards. If Bliack Library is the most important source, why Space Marines use multi-lasers?

SamplesoWoopass wrote:You say it's possible for them to fight the different armies on the table top

So are you telling me that GW was unfluffy when they included the Sisters in the War for Armageddon? Or that GW's fluff for Saint Praxedes fighting the Tyranids is unfluffy?

SaintHazard wrote:It's more than just that.

GW technically publishes all Black Library books, since Black Library, the publisher, is a subsidiary of GW.

Black Library is just as canon as that codex you love so much, Melissia. As much as it may hurt to recognize it, it's the truth.

Oh god don't say such truthful things! Logic has no place in this thread considering someone has a huge fluff-on for their army and the possibility their land of sugar and honey could be ruined by such ideals!

Melissia wrote:Black Library isn't any more canon than fanon to me. Or do you forget that Black Library contradicts itself and the codices rather frequently?

So it's not canon because you say so? Alright then.

The 40k universe revolves around the Tau, and they can never be beaten in combat. Because I say so.

And as for contradictions, codices contradict each other and themselves all the time.

Lemme see if I can dig up some canon contradictions from codices off of Lexicanum, it does a great job of pointing them out.

Here are two already:

"By 742.M41 Imperial Commanders eventually agreed to requests from the Water Caste for peace talks.

The negotiations were successful and the Imperial fleet withdrew from Tau space, primarily due to the impending approach of Hive Fleet Behemoth. Or, depending on the source, the crusade was stopped in 988.M41 due to the emergent threat of Hive Fleet Kraken."

from the article on the Damocles Crusade.

Sources are all "canon" to you.

And the second:

"Founding: The Codex: Space Marines (5th Edition) indicates the Sable Swords were founded in M41, but the Warhammer 40,000 5th Edition Rulebook states they participated in the hunt for Vanorich in M32."

from the article on the Sable Swords.

These are all sources you consider to be canon.

Canon conflict does not make canon equal fanon.

Dear DakkaDakka,

Well, I am realizing there is no contradiction if the fiction portraying the fallen Sisters is happening in the present day 40K universe. The codex would then simply have been correct up to the point it was written, up to that time, only one Sister of Battle had ever fallen.

Expecting the universe to remain static is silly I know. I don't like some of what's written, but as you say it is canon. I was going to buy the Ephrael Stern comic, but last time I looked it was out of print and really pricey on Ebay and Amazon... I hope they reprint it.

How do you all do it? I not only can't afford to buy the novels along with the miniatures and new editions of the game, I have no interest in any armies but the Sisters of Battle. But so much about the beloved God Emperor is written in the Horus Heresy books and other fiction...sigh. Even if I wanted to accept the whole series as canon, I can't manage to read them all.

My solution can only be to say that -my- Sisters remain faithful and chaste I suppose.

Though it's been heated, I have enjoyed this thread very much! My best to all of you, whether I agreed with you or not

--- Frankie

face palm* I forgot women get plus ten to their will saves against logic based attacks.

On a more serious note, I like how you ignored the entire point I was making in that, since you say that it's okay for them to fight on the table top (although you'll never be able to make sense of why they'd fight certain SM armies so I suppose you refuse to play against people who are using them) due to it being possible based on some back story that you are admitting that it's okay to have chaos sisters because in part of the back story there is or are sister/s that have fallen to chaos....

I guess that went over your head though

Melissia, do you consider the Dawn of War games and their subsequent novels to be canon? Games Workshop does. Or do they not count, because "you say so?"

Since they're canon, here:

"The only time the "secret masters" of the chapter are talked about are during Chris Roberson's Dawn of War II book. This conflicts with canon established in the Dawn of War II game where the Force Commander was promoted by the Chapter Master. This is most likely who leads the chapter, though it is also possible that the Secret Masters provide a council of sorts for the Chapter Master."

From the article on the Blood Ravens, under "Organisation."

I'm going to keep digging these up. How many is it going to take?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm going to make a slightly different point with this one.

"The novel Fulgrim indicates this was before the Emperor's entombment in the Golden Throne, but White Dwarf 255 (UK edition) indicates that it took place in 893.M31, long after the Second Founding (021.M31). However, White Dwarf 255 is from 2001 and, as such, must be assumed to have been replaced by Fulgrim, which is from 2007."

from [http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Laer]the article on Laer.[/url]

Now I know you don't consider novels to be canon, but that's not my point.

The point is that this is listed as a "canon conflict."

This illustrates that while you don't consider Black Library novels to be canon, Games Workshop does.

don't bother saint. She's more stubborn than a commissar power blob.

More stubborn than Imperial Fists being yelled at by Lysander.

No, I'm honestly interested to hear her response to my points here.

The truth is, I respect Melissia's opinion, and she and I do agree frequently, but this time I want an admission of defeat. And I will cite as many sources as I have to to get it.

I will keep digging up codex contradictions as long as it takes.

Fewer personal attacks, please, boys!

May I continue to post canon conflicts in an attempt to pound Melissia's argument into the ground with extreme prejudice, or you want me to cut that out too?

I would use a lot of sister repenata and backpack mounted slaneesh icons.

@OP- Now that I think about it, A Tzeench themed set of Sisters would also be really cool. I say this his is in reference to my previous comment about those who fall from grace ending up becoming the anti-thesis of what they once were.

Really, when you think about it, all of the Major Chaos gods would have their own special desire and self motivations to corrupt the sisters.

Korne for their skills in battle
Nurgle so he can corrupt their purported physical perfection
Slaneesh so that it can corrupt the spiritual minimalists with excess
And
Tzeench because they interfere in his plans as much as the other chaos gods and that corrupting them to sorcery would be the ultimate perversion of their purpose. They would become the Seraphim of Tzeench, you could use the Living Saint model as a feathery winged thing of beauty that is his herald.

Out of these choices, my personal preferences are your Sisters of Slaneesh idea and the Seraphim of Tzeench idea. There is Something about making them look even more angelic due to being agents of Tzeench that just seems right.

focusedfire wrote:they interfere in his plans

I disagree with this portion of what you just said.

Because it assumes that you have even the slightest inkling of Tzeentch's grand plan.

Remember, it's impossible to win against Tzeentch or his minions. If you lose, it was all part of the plan. If you win, it was all part of the plan.

The schemes of the god of schemes are grander and more complex than any mortal or even another Chaos God could ever comprehend.

SaintHazard wrote:So it's not canon because you say so?

I do not believe false dilemmas are the correct logical tool.

Regardless, I don't care if they create this army. People make unfluffy armies all the time, no big deal. Go get some minis off of ebay, cheapest place to get them.

SaintHazard wrote:

focusedfire wrote:they interfere in his plans

I disagree with this portion of what you just said.

Because it assumes that you have even the slightest inkling of Tzeentch's grand plan.

Remember, it's impossible to win against Tzeentch or his minions. If you lose, it was all part of the plan. If you win, it was all part of the plan.

The schemes of the god of schemes are grander and more complex than any mortal or even another Chaos God could ever comprehend.

I never said anything about winning or losing, only interfering.

Seriously, I agree with your point. I was working from the point that the Sisters ultimate mission puts them at odds with Tzeench.


HMMmm, Then there is the possibility that the sisters might often account for that x factor in any plan. The element of chance because their abilities are in many ways more chance based than many other armies.

Melissia wrote:*snicker* Or just mak them into FSMs and piss off more people.

Ugh.

Let's not dredge that up, OK?

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Melissia wrote:*snicker* Or just mak them into FSMs and piss off more people.

I really don't understand why people get a wild hair up their arse whenever FSM's are even mentioned. Seems like a cool idea...I'd probably add a junk load of purity seals and tabards and all that jazz, just to show them off as being clearly SoBS.

Are you seriously saying you really don't know why?

Or are you attempting to be provocative?

Either way - don't.

Petite Francois wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:^ Lol.

I still wish GW sold a bitz pack simply called "female Heads". Give us 10 heads for 8 bucks and I'll buy.

Then I can make Sobs out of space marines :3

Hi Samus_aran115,

These aren't GW, but would they be useful to you?

http://www.thewarstore.com/product53090.html

They have Amazon heads in Greek helmets too, might be an interesting look for alternate Sisters of Battle?

--- Frankie

Not bad, but I like girls with long hair, and those aren't 'sex' enough for me


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And no alpharius, I don't know why. It seems like a plague of strangeness to me. Not trying to be provocative at all (Why'd I use that one.lol)

Nurgle sisters preggers with disease and rot.

Qualude wrote:Nurgle sisters preggers with disease and rot.

Thank you for contributing so much to this thread.

Nurgle sisters make little sense, if not the least of the possible chaos god alignments,IMO.

Women and nurgle just don't seem to bode well together. The torture of that eldar goddess comes to mind..

Samus_aran115 wrote:Nurgle sisters make little sense, if not the least of the possible chaos god alignments,IMO.

I agree. Nurgle's modus operandi for gaining followers is to hurt them then wait until they prostrate themselves before him as a last resort, the only god who will directly respond to their prayers for salvation. This cannot work to convert someone whose prayers will be answered, and it cannot work on someone who would sooner be martyred than relinquish her faith in the face of such adversity.

AlexHolker wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:Nurgle sisters make little sense, if not the least of the possible chaos god alignments,IMO.

I agree. Nurgle's modus operandi for gaining followers is to hurt them then wait until they prostrate themselves before him as a last resort, the only god who will directly respond to their prayers for salvation. This cannot work to convert someone whose prayers will be answered, and it cannot work on someone who would sooner be martyred than relinquish her faith in the face of such adversity.

Plus, all the women I know would rather die than have a perma-yeast infection

SaintHazard wrote:Black Library is just as canon as that codex you love so much, Melissia. As much as it may hurt to recognize it, it's the truth.

There is some standard quote on that, that all BL books are canon only in the sense that there is someone in the 40k universe telling this story, which must not necessarily be true.
And take any Goto novel and you know that not everything written by BL makes sense or can be right in the 40k universe. Bad editing led to this situation. But even Abnett takes his freedoms.

PC games are even less trustworthy, as by game mechanics they must provide multiple endings for their campaigns that can't all be true.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Nurgle sisters make little sense, if not the least of the possible chaos god alignments,IMO.

Women and nurgle just don't seem to bode well together. The torture of that eldar goddess comes to mind..

Torture? No, he's giving her presents, lots of them, presents that he worked very, very hard on.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Nurgle sisters make little sense, if not the least of the possible chaos god alignments,IMO.

Women and nurgle just don't seem to bode well together. The torture of that eldar goddess comes to mind..

I hardly think SoB would care about some xeno heathen goddess's plight. And it's not like women don't feel despair, what happens if a SoB's faith fails? For instance, she could watch her whole squad get slaughtered by Chaos cultists and go into a depression about why the Emperor abandoned them. That's plenty enough for many to start on the road to Nurgle's embrace.

The Dizzler wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:Nurgle sisters make little sense, if not the least of the possible chaos god alignments,IMO.

Women and nurgle just don't seem to bode well together. The torture of that eldar goddess comes to mind..

I hardly think SoB would care about some xeno heathen goddess's plight. And it's not like women don't feel despair, what happens if a SoB's faith fails? For instance, she could watch her whole squad get slaughtered by Chaos cultists and go into a depression about why the Emperor abandoned them. That's plenty enough for many to start on the road to Nurgle's embrace.

Every time you roll an 11 on a morale check I imagine that's rather what it would look like.

It happens.

Vene wrote:Torture? No, he's giving her presents, lots of them, presents that he worked very, very hard on.

You joke, but there's a reason I called Nurgle an abusive husband earlier. His actions are completely without merit, no matter what his in-universe apologists say.

The Dizzler wrote:what happens if a SoB's faith fails?

What happens if you find a square circle? Not only does the concept of a SoB's faith failing in the face of adversity go against the defining feature of the Sisters of Battle and their Joan of Arc origins, it doesn't even make sense. Like I said, her faith is backed up with honest to god miracles. A Sister of Battle who comes to the conclusion that the Emperor does not care about her plight is basically a Flat Earth Atheist.

Even if by some amazing fluke it did happen, it would happen to a single Battle Sister, not whole squads at a time.

@Alex-Just wanted to say that your above post kinda comes across as if you take the fluff seriously and possibly a bit too literally. Not trying to start anything, just stating how it came across to me.

I'd, also, like to point out that the back story is a work of fiction in which nothing is permanent or truly cannon. This is because GW changes this back story whenever it suits their sales need.


Edit spelling and spacing

focusedfire wrote:@Alex-Just wanted to say that your above post kinda comes across as if you take the fluff seriously and possibly a bit too literally. Not trying to start anything, just stating how it came across to me.

I'd, also, like to point out that the back story is a work of fiction in which nothing is permanent or truly cannon. This is because GW changes this back story whenever it suits their sales need.

I enjoy talking about such things. It's unimportant in everyday life, but within the context of a discussion about whether or not a Sister of Battle would fall to Nurgle, I am going to take the fluff seriously.

And while it is a work of fiction, there are some parts of the canon that Games Workshop is never going to change. Horus will never not have betrayed the Emperor, Kharne is never going to be a pacifist, and the Sisters of Battle are never going to stop being Joans of Arc IN SPACE.

AlexHolker wrote:Horus will never not have betrayed the Emperor

Actually, as it turns out, it was all a bit of a misunderstanding really...

AlexHolker wrote:I enjoy talking about such things. It's unimportant in everyday life, but within the context of a discussion about whether or not a Sister of Battle would fall to Nurgle, I am going to take the fluff seriously.

And while it is a work of fiction, there are some parts of the canon that Games Workshop is never going to change. Horus will never not have betrayed the Emperor, Kharne is never going to be a pacifist, and the Sisters of Battle are never going to stop being Joans of Arc IN SPACE.

1) Never is a long-time, but I'll agree to point in that before GW made such a drastic change they would most likely just write the chatacter out of their history. Then again GW might run a redemption story on one of them while letting another hero fall. Gw has done crazier things.

2) While a Horus and Kharne might never change, It would only be due to how central they are to the back story and that they are individuals. While a few individals are thus protected, the various factions of the Imperium can not make such a claim and Sisters are no more important than any other faction in this regard. Look at the changes made to the SMs over the years. I believe one of the first pictures of a SM was a BT and now they are a second founding. Ultras went from almost destroyed to the largest chapter. SW 13th company has gone from heros on a mission lead by Russ to a possible choas faction.

3)Yes, Jeanne d'Arc- A living Saint that was manipulated to her undoing by the ruinous powers of politics. Now I agree that it only would be one or two isolated individuals, but they wouldn't just run away. They would go back to the convent, receive the rewards for surviving and wait until they had a mission leading other, less experienced, Sisters on a remote mission where they could corrupt a few of them.
It is not hard to see how this could lead to the fall of a lesser sisterhood.

Now, I've got a feeling that the Sisters next codex is going to give the SoBs the separation from the Inquistion that many of their fans have hoped for, but the changes to the backstory will cause more nerd rage than all of the nipple armour ever created. Why? It is what GW does. So far, every 5th ed codex has had such background changes. I don't believe it will stop just for the sisters. As such, while there may be a few sacred cows in 40K, the sisters are not one of them.

AlexHolker wrote:

Vene wrote:Torture? No, he's giving her presents, lots of them, presents that he worked very, very hard on.

You joke, but there's a reason I called Nurgle an abusive husband earlier. His actions are completely without merit, no matter what his in-universe apologists say.

What do you expect from the god fueled by despair? He's what happens when people crack.

I would be interested to see these Chaos Sister rules. Acts of Faith from the Chaos Gods?


@focus:
1) It can happen.

2) That's still part of Ultra fluff. GW still states that Maccrage devestated the Ultramarine chapter, but several centuries later they have now recovered.

3) Possibly a single squad led by a corrupted Celestian, but there's little in canon to suggest that an entire convent would fall so easily.

What happened to Guard in 5th?

Kroothawk wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:Black Library is just as canon as that codex you love so much, Melissia. As much as it may hurt to recognize it, it's the truth.

There is some standard quote on that, that all BL books are canon only in the sense that there is someone in the 40k universe telling this story, which must not necessarily be true.
And take any Goto novel and you know that not everything written by BL makes sense or can be right in the 40k universe. Bad editing led to this situation. But even Abnett takes his freedoms.

PC games are even less trustworthy, as by game mechanics they must provide multiple endings for their campaigns that can't all be true.

Canon is determined by the people who own the IP.

GW owns the 40k IP and the company that publishes the novels.

GW says the novels are canon.

That's good enough for me.

See, 40k has the disadvantage of being ambiguous enough about what is and is not canon that fans often get confused. Lines have to be drawn.

For example, if someone writes a Star Trek TV series or novel, Paramount can say, "This is canon," or, "This is not canon." It's done entirely on a case-by-case basis, and only a few sources other than TV series produced by Paramount can be claimed as canon in the Star Trek universe.

On the other hand, Games Workshop has simply made generalized statements about what is and is not canon - and they have to, since there are far too many sources published to call each one "canon" or "not canon" individually. Black Library publishings are on the list of "canon," as are any video games with Games Workshop's logo attached to them.

SaintHazard: You said it was good enough for you. But it isn't for me.

focusedfire wrote:@Alex-Just wanted to say that your above post kinda comes across as if you take the fluff seriously

So what, you expect everyone to be just like you, to take the fluff as if it's a piece of trash to be kicked around, pointed at and laughed at?

So then please tell us, Melissia - show us the truth and let us be enlightened - what defines canon for you, if not the words of the creators?

If a writer writes a novel, can you simply omit a chapter of the novel, as if it never existed, simply because it doesn't agree with your idea of what that novel should be?

If a painter paints a portrait, can you simply omit the hands, because they don't look feminine enough for you?

If a blacksmith forges a suit of armor, can you simply omit the breastplate because it doesn't have enough rivets?

SaintHazard wrote:So then please tell us, Melissia - show us the truth and let us be enlightened - what defines canon for you, if not the words of the creators?

You work under a false dichotomy. I never said there was "canon or not canon". I would say there's varying levels of canon. Or are you going to claim that C.S.Goto's work is equivalent to Andy Hoare, Jervis Johnson, and Matt Ward?

SaintHazard wrote:If a blacksmith forges a suit of armor, can you simply omit the breastplate because it doesn't have enough rivets?

Well, you can in 40K...

Melissia wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:So then please tell us, Melissia - show us the truth and let us be enlightened - what defines canon for you, if not the words of the creators?

You work under a false dichotomy. I never said there was "canon or not canon". I would say there's varying levels of canon. Or are you going to claim that C.S.Goto's work is equivalent to Andy Hoare, Jervis Johnson, and Matt Ward?

In quality? No.

In authenticity and canon? Yes.

BloodQuest wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:Horus will never not have betrayed the Emperor

Actually, as it turns out, it was all a bit of a misunderstanding really...

Pfah, everyone knows it was Proud Sanguinius who slew the Emperor. It was actually the Emperor who first reached Horus, but his mere presence brought Horus back to the light. Sanguinius, tainted easily (As proven by his hideous mutations) both slew Horus and fatally injured the Emperor in a fit of Chaos-Fueled rage. The Emperor mererly elected to keep this secret, and the Death Companies "Visions of the Battle" drive them to a guilt-filled rage, not a homicidal one. That is why they paint themselves Black and throw themselves into combat, renouncing the colors of their Chapter, and hoping to die serving the Emperor. The Red Thirst is Sanguinius, who took place as a Daemon Prince for his success, psychically attacking his sons, driving them ever closer to Chaos. The surge of fallen Blood Angels is him growing in power, preparing to come back, claim his chapter for Slaanesh, and finish the job he started. That's also why Chaos endeavored to kill the clones of Horus, for they were not clones of the Disgusting Monster-Primarch who slew the emperor, but clones of a milksop weakling who betrayed the Gods in the end!

Then we are just going to have to agree to disagree or this will continue ad infinitum.

Haddi, you might enjoy my post in the "Blood Angels serving Chaos" thread.

Melissia wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:So then please tell us, Melissia - show us the truth and let us be enlightened - what defines canon for you, if not the words of the creators?

You work under a false dichotomy. I never said there was "canon or not canon". I would say there's varying levels of canon. Or are you going to claim that C.S.Goto's work is equivalent to Andy Hoare, Jervis Johnson, and Matt Ward?

There is no such thing as a C.S. Goto. Continuing to mention a C.S. Goto will make chaptermaster Kyras angry. Do you want him angry?

For whatever it's worth, there were Slaaneshi Sisters of Battle in Daemonifuge.

Terminus wrote:For whatever it's worth, there were Slaaneshi Sisters of Battle in Daemonifuge.

Dude!

Don't say that again, you'll stir Melissia up into an anti-canon fervor a third time!

Do you really want that?

Yes! It's cold in here and I need some fire!

SaintHazard wrote:Haddi, you might enjoy my post in the "Blood Angels serving Chaos" thread.

...

Go on...

(As in, post link...)

Melissia wrote:You work under a false dichotomy. I never said there was "canon or not canon". I would say there's varying levels of canon. Or are you going to claim that C.S.Goto's work is equivalent to Andy Hoare, Jervis Johnson, and Matt Ward?

Yeah, C.S. Goto and Ward are equally terrible at writing fluff. Jervis' rules are as bad as Goto's fictions.

Haddi wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:Haddi, you might enjoy my post in the "Blood Angels serving Chaos" thread.

...

Go on...

(As in, post link...)

It's right over here.

AlexHolker wrote:What happens if you find a square circle? Not only does the concept of a SoB's faith failing in the face of adversity go against the defining feature of the Sisters of Battle and their Joan of Arc origins, it doesn't even make sense. Like I said, her faith is backed up with honest to god miracles. A Sister of Battle who comes to the conclusion that the Emperor does not care about her plight is basically a Flat Earth Atheist.

Even if by some amazing fluke it did happen, it would happen to a single Battle Sister, not whole squads at a time.

First of all, I'm not saying that SoB fall to Chaos every time you turn around. I'm simply suggesting hypothetical situations that could justify the possibility of it happening.

Second, so what if their faith has proof through supposed miracles? They're still not immune to fear, doubt and despair. It just means that if their faith does fail them, it's all the more devastating. If they've seen evidence of the Emperor's divine providence and know he's watching them, why didn't he protect them from that rogue psyker that slaughtered their sisters?

To answer that in a "fluffy" way:

As said by Saint Sebastian Thor, just as the Emperor is our father and guardian, so too must we guard the Emperor-- for he has sacrificed much for us, and suffers for humanity every day.

IE, the Emperor protects, but so does shooting the enemy in the face. Believe in His protection, but do not rely on it-- the Emperor is all powerful, yet even his unbelievable might must be spread over the vastness of the Imperium, and we humans are but small specks of ember amidst the vast bonfires of each world's population.

The Dizzler wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:What happens if you find a square circle? Not only does the concept of a SoB's faith failing in the face of adversity go against the defining feature of the Sisters of Battle and their Joan of Arc origins, it doesn't even make sense. Like I said, her faith is backed up with honest to god miracles. A Sister of Battle who comes to the conclusion that the Emperor does not care about her plight is basically a Flat Earth Atheist.

Even if by some amazing fluke it did happen, it would happen to a single Battle Sister, not whole squads at a time.

First of all, I'm not saying that SoB fall to Chaos every time you turn around. I'm simply suggesting hypothetical situations that could justify the possibility of it happening.

Second, so what if their faith has proof through supposed miracles? They're still not immune to fear, doubt and despair. It just means that if their faith does fail them, it's all the more devastating. If they've seen evidence of the Emperor's divine providence and know he's watching them, why didn't he protect them from that rogue psyker that slaughtered their sisters?

Agreed.

The majority of the Sisters in the unit might not even realize it was happening right away anyway. The degeneration of the Emperor's Children in Fulgrim is a wonderful example of a large number of the Emperor's servants falling to Slaanesh. Only a few were infected at first, then the taint spread through the entire ship.

Terminus wrote:For whatever it's worth, there were Slaaneshi Sisters of Battle in Daemonifuge.

They were not worshipping Slaanesh folks. I've read Daemonifuge and unless I am highly deluded and my reading skills degraded for those moments they did not worship Slaanesh. One sister was controlled by some daemon thing attached to her and she was killed along with it. The Order did not worship Slaanesh either. The Keeper used his powers to breach their Shield of Faith and tricked them into killing each other by fannign their desire for purity as I recall. These same sisters whose souls he tried to consume used their purity and knowledge to help Ephrael Stern and Silas Hand defeat it.

For those of you who think this is canon, the sisters within were flying on an Ecclesiarchy cruiser and went to the surface in drop pod like vehicles. The Ecclesiarchy is expressly forbidden from having its own forces since that would constitute men under arms other than the Sisters. The Sisters were not in charge of the vessel either.

somthing like this happened in tales of heresy where a siste makes 'dark pacts' to use the warp to tell herself about what going to happen

andrewm9 wrote:They were not worshipping Slaanesh folks. I've read Daemonifuge and unless I am highly deluded and my reading skills degraded for those moments they did not worship Slaanesh. One sister was controlled by some daemon thing attached to her and she was killed along with it. The Order did not worship Slaanesh either. The Keeper used his powers to breach their Shield of Faith and tricked them into killing each other by fannign their desire for purity as I recall. These same sisters whose souls he tried to consume used their purity and knowledge to help Ephrael Stern and Silas Hand defeat it.

For those of you who think this is canon, the sisters within were flying on an Ecclesiarchy cruiser and went to the surface in drop pod like vehicles. The Ecclesiarchy is expressly forbidden from having its own forces since that would constitute men under arms other than the Sisters. The Sisters were not in charge of the vessel either.

Ah, then I stand corrected. It must have been one of those nuns with guns hentais.

SaintHazard wrote:GW says the novels are canon.
That's good enough for me.

Funny, as Marc Gascoigne, publisher of BL at the time of the quote, says something quite different:

“Keep in mind Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 are worlds where half truths, lies, propaganda, politics, legends and myths exist. The absolute truth which is implied when you talk about "canonical background" will never be known because of this. Everything we know about these worlds is from the viewpoints of people in them which are as a result incomplete and even sometimes incorrect. The truth is mutable, debatable and lost as the victors write the history...

Here's our standard line: Yes it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true, or at least 100% accurate. if it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it.

Let's put it another way: anything with a 40K logo on it is as official as any Codex... and at least as crammed full of rumours, distorted legends and half-truths.

I think the real problem for me, and I speak for no other, is that the topic as a "big question" doesn't matter. It's all as true as everything else, and all just as false/half-remembered/sort-of-true. The answer you are seeking is "Yes and no" or perhaps "Sometimes". And for me, that's the end of it.

Now, ask us some specifics, eg can Black Templars spit acid and we can answer that one, and many others. But again note that answer may well be "sometimes" or "it varies" or "depends".

But is it all true? Yes and no. Even though some of it is plainly contradictory? Yes and no. Do we deliberately contradict, retell with differences? Yes we do. Is the newer the stuff the truer it is? Yes and no. In some cases is it true that the older stuff is the truest? Yes and no. Maybe and sometimes. Depends and it varies.

It's a decaying universe without GPS and galaxy-wide communication, where precious facts are clung to long after they have been changed out of all recognition. Read A Canticle for Liebowitz by Walter M Miller, about monks toiling to hold onto facts in the aftermath of a nucelar war; that nails it for me.

Sorry, too much splurge here. Not meant to sound stroppy.

To attempt answer the initial question: What is GW's definition of canon? Perhaps we don't have one. Sometimes and maybe. Or perhaps we do and I'm not telling you.“

Sorry that I have proven you wrong, but it is not easy to fool me

Melissia wrote:Aside from the fact that it's completely unfluffy? I suggest using e-bay, because GW has had an aneurysm and decided to not sell the ten model box anymore and therefor it will take upwards of sixty bucks to get a single squad from GW (without any special weapons).

Why completely unfluffy? Did you read any of the Daemonifuge series? All of the Emperor's servants are capable of turning to Chaos. That's the root of the threat...

Valete,

JohnS

So, if some of it is and some of it isn't, who is anyone to decide so definitively?

SamplesoWoopass wrote:So, if some of it is and some of it isn't, who is anyone to decide so definitively?

And to take it a step further...

Why should one cling so tightly to their interpretation of the fluff when it is pretty clear that the people writing aren't all that concerned with it's accuracy?

cygnnus wrote:Why completely unfluffy? Did you read any of the Daemonifuge series? All of the Emperor's servants are capable of turning to Chaos. That's the root of the threat...

Valete,

JohnS

Not all. Grey Knights cannot be corrupted.

Monster Rain wrote:

SamplesoWoopass wrote:So, if some of it is and some of it isn't, who is anyone to decide so definitively?

And to take it a step further...

Why should one cling so tightly to their interpretation of the fluff when it is pretty clear that the people writing aren't all that concerned with it's accuracy?

Because it's more enjoyable to me this way? As for who decides definitively, everyone does that for themselves anyway so it's a moot point. When two sources conflict, it's not like GW gives a damn enough to say which one is right, so the reader does it for them.

You can decide for yourself all you want, but it's not right to push your belief on what is and isn't authentic onto others and present it as fact. Especially since, by your own logic, chaos sisters is perfectly legitimate.

SamplesoWoopass wrote:You can decide for yourself all you want, but it's not right to push your belief on what is and isn't authentic onto others and present it as fact. Especially since, by your own logic, chaos sisters is perfectly legitimate.

If you don't want people to "push their beliefs" on you then cut your internet connection, your phoneline, and lock yourself in your home. This is a forum, a forum is designed for discussion, discussion means people will state their beliefs, which inevitably means they will argue for them.

I got Sisters of Battle in my Traitor Guard they are my Special Weapons teams and they are Khorne worshipers and they get no bonuses they just look cool.

stating your beliefs and posing your opinions as absolute fact are two completely different things. Especially when your justifications for your opinions are weak.

Your justification for BL being a non-authentic source is that it sometimes contradicts itself or other GW sources. However, as was pointed out by saint hazard, the codexes and rulebooks often contradict themselves as well. So, only when you say that there is no authentic source of information can you say that Black Library is any less authentic than any other source.

SamplesoWoopass wrote:stating your beliefs and posing your opinions as absolute fact are two completely different things.

Good thing I never did that.

Melissia wrote:

SamplesoWoopass wrote:stating your beliefs and posing your opinions as absolute fact are two completely different things.

Good thing I never did that.

Ahem. Not that I care, but you kinda did. Let's keep it real here.

I stated my opinion, and nothing more. If you wish to read more into my posts than is there, that is your problem.

edit: I should not have to say "in my opinion" in EVERY SINGLE DAMN POST I MAKE. This is a forum on the internet. That my posts are opinions should be obvious.

Believe me, they are.

You might want to take it down a notch now.

Sure you have. You've been saying the whole time how chaos sisters don't follow the fluff based on what you think is canon. Just based on your belligerent tone alone, I can't believe for a second that this was just "oh well, I don't really think that follows the authentic story of 40k" as opposed to "NO! This doesn't follow the story of 40k and any evidence or logic that you have that says otherwise will be completely ignored because I say it isn't canon."

It's pointless to continue this back and forth though since your justification for regular SoB's being a playable army also justified chaos SoB's anyway. Your entire position on everything thus far has been contradicted by what you've said.

Just as a heads up, you'll notice I've stopped arguing with her.

1) It's useless, she's never going to back down, the best you'll get is a convenient reinterpretation of your own words so that her own argument still stands. She loves straw people.

2) It's eventually going to get you into trouble, and thus not worth it.

Give it up dude. You're right, we all know you are, but you'll never hear it from her.

Also as a heads up, if the personal remarks continue, there will be action taken.


Is it really such a big deal if someone disagrees with you on the background story for your toy soldiers?

Stick to the topic, and leave the other posters alone.

I think we all need to go outside... and pet a kitty.

Also just for the record a single sister of battle is the only DOCUMENTED one fallen to chaos. One can only imagine what would happen if a noise marine went into a coven of young virgins.


Giggity.

Get mercilessly slaughtered because those "virgins" have boltguns, flamers, and meltaguns?

I think you take this stuff a lil too seriously mate...

Or maybe I find the idea of a noise marine going to a Sisters convent and being blasted all to hell amusing?

Melissia wrote:Or maybe I find the idea of a noise marine going to a Sisters convent and being blasted all to hell amusing?

Oh they'd be the ones being blasted, if you follow my ribald analogy.

With the guts and innards of the noise marine, obviously.

Bowchikabowwow.

hi guys calm down its only toy soldiers.

if the guys wants to have perverted sisters of battle thats his problem, khorne might work better but he's got a vision of an army he wants to convert and model so leave him be. personaly i wanted a unit of sisters on bikes but got shot down by my friends stating it would be a unit of dykes on bikes which got a few laughs back when they first came out.

personly i want a picture or two of work in progress (wait that sounds perverted,,,,,, dammit)

Shadowbrand wrote:I think we all need to go outside... and pet a kitty.

Also just for the record a single sister of battle is the only DOCUMENTED one fallen to chaos. One can only imagine what would happen if a noise marine went into a coven of young virgins.


Giggity.

Is that a noiseblaster in your pocket or are you just planning on sacrificing us to your dark god of perversion?

Badum-tsh

My blast master... it wants you to touch it.