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Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 07:47:54


Post by: Dashofpepper


Hey folks!

You can read my other batreps for this event here:
Round One
Round Two
Round Three
Round Four
Round Five
Round Six


This past weekend my wife and I headed up to Washington D.C. so that I could play in the Nova Open GT. When I originally signed up for this, I lived in North Carolina and was excited to only have to travel 3-4 hours to a GT after my previous experiences traveling across the country in all directions to participate in other events. Then I moved to Florida, and my Friday afternoon drive up turned into a 12 hour driving marathon to arrive just in time to eat dinner and prepare for fight night!

A little backstory:
I like Orks. Waaaugh! Heh. I play Pink Orks. They belong to my wife. She plays orks too. For the last year or two, my niche on Dakka has been as a resident Ork expert. I do very well with them and enjoy helping spread the Waaaugh! to new players and imparting tactical wisdom about how to make the mean greenies (or in my case pinkies) excel on the table. Stelek is the author of the blog site YTTH. One day, he wrote an article titled, Why Orks Suck. As a staunch Ork advocate, I got spammed with notices that a blogger was talking trash about my favorite codex. That blog and his later Lets flame Dash's Orks followed by Dash is an emo ranter set the stage for a 40k "celebrity death match" type event where Stelek and I would face off to illustrate to him that Orks definitely do NOT suck.

The Night of the Event:
Shortly before go time, I wandered down to the lounge/bar area to see if I could find Stelek. I didn't want our first meeting to be across the table from each other, and wanted to get to know him a little bit. I found him sitting at a table waiting for the Whiskey Challenge to start (I wandered in and loudly asked, "Is anyone in here Andrew Sutton?". He doesn't drink alcohol, so I bought him a Sprite and sat down to chat for a bit. He was not the nefarious bunghole I was expecting. :p Stelek may enjoy his drinks virgin, but I suffer no such compulsion and cracked the fifth of Captain Morgan I had brought along. Interestingly, since I was not wearing my "Dashofpepper" shirt, a lot of folks didn't recognize me. When I opened the bottle in the grand hallway, raised it in a cheers to the 40kers hanging out in preparation for going inside and took a long pull, several people said, "You must be Dashofpepper!" Ah well, I have a reputation to maintain!

We wandered into the hotel ballroom and started getting models out. Stelek and I (along with all the other players that night) went through a series of interviews, podcasts, and the like (which are scattered around the internet according to whom their author is).

Mike Brandt, the Tournament Organizer rolled a D3 for mission, and we got ready to set up!

Personal Reflection: Coming up to the Friday night game, I'm torn. I'm a Dark Eldar player. I've been playing Dark Eldar for six months, and the Orks have been in hibernation, with the exception of 'Ard Boyz, where they came out to play because Dark Eldar don't scale to 2500 points by ANY stretch of the imagination. As such, I want to play Dark Eldar this weekend. At the same time....my friends are warning me not to bring Dark Eldar to the tournament. We suffer from a weakness to Space Wolves and Mechanized IG, both of which can outshoot us and survive an alpha-strike while being able to respond. If I go first against either army, it will be a good game; if I don't go first, chances are good that I'll take a beating. With the Nova Open being billeted as an incredibly competitive army, Orks should stand up better against the heavy swing of Mech IG and Space Wolves than Dark Eldar can.

At the same time....I'm also being encouraged not to play the same list on Friday night that I do on Saturday, for fear that it will give people insight into how to exploit me. In hindsight, this is ludicrous because I post my list everywhere, always use the same things (or variants of them), and batrep a lot of my tournaments. I didn't think of this on Friday night though - I was thinking to myself, "If I should play Orks on Saturday, that means I should bring DE on Friday night.....but people want to see my Orks vs. Stelek." Ultimately, I decided to just drop my tournament Ork list on the table, and worry about the rest of it later.

Anyway...game time!

I took a picture of Stelek and myself. The chubby one on the left is Stelek. The chubby one on the right is me. Every time I look at a picture of myself, I cringe at how much I've porked up since getting out of the army in 2007. Add that distinctly absurd look on my face, put a shirt on me that says, "Its ok to laugh at my growing belly!" and there you go.

Stelek's Space Wolves:

HQ1: Wolf Guard Battle Leader (Thunderwolf Mount; Fenrisian Wolf; Combi-Meltagun x1; Wolf Claw x1; Rending in CC only; Saga of the Beastslayer) + 2 Fenrisian Wolves

Elite1: Wolf Guard Pack: 6x Wolf Guard, 1x Combi-Melta, 1x Power Weapon + Las/Plas Razorback
Elite2: 5x Wolf Scouts + Meltagun
Elite3: 4x Wolf Scouts + Meltagun

Troop1: 5x Grey Hunters + Meltagun + Rhino
Troop2: 5x Grey Hunters + Meltagun + Rhino
Troop3: 5x Grey Hunters + Meltagun + Rhino
Troop4: 5x Grey Hunters + Meltagun + Rhino
Troop5: 5x Inquisitorial Stormtroopers + 2x Plasmaguns
Troop6: 5x Inquisitorial Stormtroopers + 2x Plasmaguns

Fast Attack1: 1x Thunderwolf Cavalry
Fast Attack2: 1x Landspeeder (Heavy Flamer / Multi-Melta)
Fast Attack3: 1x Landspeeder (Heavy Flamer / Multi-Melta)

Heavy1: 5x Long Fangs (4x Missile Launchers + Squad Leader) + Las/Plas Razorback
Heavy2: 5x Long Fangs (4x Missile Launchers + Squad Leader) + Las/Plas Razorback
Heavy3: 5x Long Fangs (4x Missile Launchers + Squad Leader) + Las/Plas Razorback


Thoughts on Stelek's list:
I think I see 24 killpoints in there. I suppose a tournament without killpoints calls for using as many MSUs as possible, and this was the first of many instances I see this being used at the tournament! I play DE, but SW can put equally lethal but much more survivable MSUs onto the table, which is what makes them such a bad matchup. With my own list heavily revolving around battlewagons, I'm most interested in his four Lascannons and 2 multi-meltas. Those can hurt my battlewagons. The missile launchers I'm not too worried about; with good positioning, I can keep him from getting side armor on me; my first priority is trying to take away his ability to hamper my mobility at range. I recognize the threat of wolf scouts as well - I usually have gretchin and Lootas in my backfield, and they can be bothersome quite easily.

Dashofpepper's Orks:

HQ1: Ghazghkull Thraka
HQ2: Big Mek with KFF and Powerklaw

Troop1: 7x Nobs, cybork bodies + wound shenanigans in dedicated transport battlewagon
Troop2: 16x Boyz, Nob/Powerklaw/Bosspole
Troop3: 12x Trukk Boyz, Nob/Powerklaw/Bosspole + Trukk
Troop4: 10x Gretchin + Runtherder

Elite1: 15x Burnas
Elite2: 5x Lootas
Elite3: 5x Lootas

Fast Attack1: 3x Warbuggies with TL Rokkits
Fast Attack2: 1x Deffkopta, TL Rokkits + Buzzsaw
Fast Attack3: 1x Deffkopta, TL Rokkits + Buzzsaw

Heavy1: Battlewagon
Heavy2: Battlewagon (Deffrolla, Boarding Plank, Grabbin' Klaw, Armor Plates, Grot Riggers, Big Shoota).

Thoughts on my own list

I've been playing pretty much the same flavor of Orks now for a very long time. While I haven't been playing them much in the last 6 months, I don't variate much. I built my list with the idea that I have an answer (multiple answers) to everything. Before the Nova, I messed around trying to take the nobs out, didn't like anything I could get in their place. I've seen suggestions for less burnas, no burnas, more nobs, no nobs, more buggies, more deffkoptas, no Ghazghkull.....I'm not sure what to think of it all. I used to play without Nobs until someone pointed out that I was wasting part of Ghazghkull's utility by not taking them. So then I started taking them....but I only had room for 7 here, and didn't know what to give up. Those deffkoptas seem precious to me. The rokkit buggies serve their own purpose for screening (most of the time)....if I take the trukk boyz out, I only have three troop choices left, one of which is...a 40 point gretchin unit. I don't know what to change, what to give up, and suppose I should make a separate thread about that. Anyway, its served me well for a long time. Its just disconcerting to see so many comments in other threads like, "Good general, bad list." Aw, hell - I shouldn't be starting Necrons, but I am. ><

Mission:
-Primary: Table Quarters
-Secondary: Objectives
-Tertiary: Victory Points

Deployment
: Spearhead!

I win the roll for deployment and elect to deploy and go first. The table is mostly symmetrical, so I pick the corner that seems like it has the best terrain for my Lootas to be deployed in while maintaining as much visibility of the battlefield as possible. Ignore all the marines you see - they are just set off to the side / inside transports etc.



This is a picture of my deployment over a shoulder view. The battlewagon formation is identical for all games: Ghazghkull with burnas in the...burny looking battlewagon. KFF + Boyz in the middle. Nobs on the other side. The squad of Lootas is overlooking the left side of the field.


At this point in the game, we're presuming that the big castle thing in the middle is impassable and blocks line of sight.

While the Loota squad seen above is outside of the ability of an outflanking / ambushing scout squad to reach in a single turn, the second squad is not, so I put my gretchin unit behind them as a screening unit to protect my rear. You can also see that my deffkoptas and rokkit buggies are lined up, with everyone tied in for access to the KFF Mek's cover saves.


Here's a deployment shot of Stelek having deployed across the table from me. Take note of the piece of terrain in the middle.


And...a zoomed out shot of deployment. Stelek has his troops and rhinos hugging one corner of his deployment, while the razorbacks and longfangs sit as far away from me as possible. One of his scout squads chooses to outflank, the other infiltrates just on the other side of the impassable / BLOS terrain.


At one point here, a spectator notes that they thought there was no impassable terrain in the Nova FAQ. I ask Mike (the TO) to come over and clarify, and he says that there is no impassable terrain, but that it does block LOS. Now to me...there are two kinds of buildings. Either they have an armor value and you get inside them or blow them up....or there are ruins that you walk/run/drive/fly through. Our game has our first and really only serious dispute centralized over this - As I'm moving forward later in the game, I'm presuming that I'm driving through the building(crash crash CRASH!), while Stelek presumes I am driving over the building.

Here's a closeup of the Wolf Scouts infiltrating behind the building. They serve the dual purpose of having the ability to pose a threat, and also of preventing my Deffkoptas from scouting within 12" of them.


Final Deployment shot here: Stelek puts one of his inquisitorial stormtroop squads out in the open, lined up to prevent my deffkoptas from scouting within 12" of them either.


With that, we start!

Scout Moves: My Deffkoptas have limited mobility based on his deployment, so they both zoom off towards his rhinos, making sure to keep 12" away from his scouts on their way over. The white dice is marking the 12" mark from the scouts. In hindsight, I should have also had Stelek mark their 12" radius so that I could arc towards the rhinos while staying 12" away from the scouts.


Stelek rolls to seize the initiative and fails.

Ork Turn One:
My battlewagons move 12" forward. My trukk and rokkit buggies won't be in range to do anything, so they hide behind the AV14 to keep their AV10 safe from long range missile launchers. The white dice on the building are supposed to be marking my progress through the building. My intent here is that the KFF wagon is halfway through a solid-walled ruin, with both other wagons flanking it but not completely inside.


Here's a shot from a different vantage point. I had considered a few alternatives: Moving 6" and dropping an 8" template onto the scouts. Moving up 12" and dropping the nobs out to fight. Sending a Deffkopta in. Stelek had attached a power weapon to the scout squad, so I didn't want to drop a Deffkopta in there. Ultimately, I decided that with only a single melta gun, no access to my KFF wagon, and a 4+ save I'd be ok and would hold out for now.


My Deffkoptas both move 12" towards their respective Rhino targets. I don't expect to get fair trade out of this in terms of Victory Points, but I am hoping to crash into his rhinos and troops and anything disembarked by my Deffkoptas is going to suffer my wrath when I get there. In addition, since this is a table quarters mission, I want to take away whatever mobility I can and push him back into the far corner.

Into shooting! My righthand squad of Lootas open up on and explode a razorback in the opening salvo. The explosion wounds a longfang, and a missile launcher longfang takes a piece of shrapnel in the throat and falls over gurgling.


My left squad of Lootas whiff. My Deffkoptas both whiff as well. Into assaults! My first Deffkopta assaults into a rhino - Weapon Destroyed + Immobilized. Drats.


My second Deffkopta assaults into its rhino target and gets the same result: Weapon Destroyed and Immobilized.


Space Wolves Turn One:
Stelek moves up! Both un-immobilized rhinos move forward 12" and disgorge troops with melta guns, with one of them popping smoke. His land-speeders move forward to threaten with multi-meltas as well.


The Stormtroopers on foot jump into the newly vacated rhino.


In the backfield, his second squad of Inquisitorial Stormtroopers jump into a razorback while his Wolf Lord and Thunderwolf model connect and hang out in cover to provide centralized protection to his artillery. Ignore the longfangs lying down - he put them on the edge of the table; this was to prevent them from falling off the table.

This is where things get interesting in the middle of the table. Stelek was presuming my vehicle drove up the building and was on top, while I presumed it was a ruin and that I was driving through it. He had his scouts in double-tap range of my KFF wagon with their melta gun, three lascannons, and two multi-meltas. The troops on the ground were also in double-tap range of the Nob battlewagon.

At any rate, the Nob battlewagon absorbs massed fire; one melta misses, the other one bounces off of a KFF save, and the multi-melta punches through and explodes the nob battlewagon. I didn't bring my crater markers, so outlined my wreckage with dice.


His scouts had been planning on firing at the KFF wagon, but instead shoot at Ghazghkull's wagon - they get a glance and a weapon destroyed result. About this time Mike joined our game and ruled that I was supposed to be up on top of the castle, not crashing through it. Stelek noted that he would have been firing at the KFF wagon instead. I noted that I would have killed the scouts if I knew I wasn't behind BLOS terrain with an assault. The scouts scored a weapon destroyed result on Ghazghkull's wagon; I offered to switch the weapon destroyed result over to the KFF wagon, but he declined. I think there was a slight ruckus in another thread somewhere about them not getting to shoot, but they did score a weapon destroyed result. Somewhere in there, he also dropped a melta shot each on the deffkoptas and they fell over dead.

His remaining longfangs open up on my nobs, looking for some insta-kills. Three fall over. His lascannons all ping off of Ghazghkull's wagon or fail to fire.


Top view of the battlefield at this point: His Wolf Lord sends his wolves and Thunderwolf Cavalry ranging out.


Now that we know that my battlewagon has vertical thrusters, it zooms into the sky, lands on the castle, and the jump wolf scouts fly up to assault it!


Awww....they whiffed.

*****Dashofpepper Mistake #1: I probably should have assaulted the scouts. It would have taken heat off of my nobs and cut that melta and power weapon out of the game on the spot, and saved this whole issue. Moreover, it probably should have been my nobs assaulting out given that his anti-tank was coming in on their side.*****

Ork Turn Two:

My trukk full of boyz swings around and dumps out its boyz by the tactical squad that just melta-ed the Nob Battlewagon.


My two remaining battlewagons push ahead and disgorge Ghazghkull, Burnas, and boyz. I'm planning on using my Waaaugh!. I intend to use the Burnas and Ghazghkull independently to assault his Wolf Lord and Thunderwolf Cavalry model from two directions, and using my mob of blue boyz to either assault a speeder (heavy flamers are bad mojo) or taking a piece out of a rhino. The KFF Wagon Deffrollas through the Scouts, and they all fall over dead.


Here's a closeup: I'm lining up my rokkit buggies for clear shots at a land speeder, while the Lootas in the backfield are also getting clear fields of fire - the nobs 2D6 and get 2".


Into shooting: Boom! The Lootas explode one landspeeder, the rokkit buggies wreck the other. I don't remember which, and couldn't convince Stelek to mark them for my pictures and memory, so I'm going to presume the exploded one was by him since I don't remember losing any boyz.


With the Land speeders dead, those boyz are free to move around and do what they like, and assault what they want to.

In the backfield, my second Loota squad takes aim at another Las/Plas razorback and stuns it. Good enough! That's a lascannon not firing at a battlewagon next turn.


Ghazghkull and the Burnas assault into the Thunderwolf cavalry model and the Battle Leader.


My blue squad assaults his immobilized rhino, and multi-assaults the inquisitorial (reduced) stormtroopers that were fleeing....presumably from a tank shock. they fail leadership and are destroyed.


My nobs assault his tactical squad while my trukk boyz assault the rhino that just moved 12" and smoked. Its empty, but I'm using the Waaaugh! and don't have a better target - so if I can immobilize it, I will - anything to reduce his ability to move around the board to get to table quarters. They manage to stun it.


The squad of blue boyz assault the immobilized rhino and wreck it before the Powerklaw can enter the equation. His tactical squad disembarks.


Over in Ghazghkull's arena.....yeah, you're seeing this correctly.


We have a small rules discussion here. Apparently, the Battle Leaders fenrisian wolves count as a separate unit despite being wargear for the battle leader. I don't have a warm and fuzzy on this one for a couple of reasons, but I'm not sure how the rules are supposed to play out. He said that Ghazghkull had to move closest to closest....which was into the wolves. But that the wolves were a separate unit, and that I couldn't move into the Thunderwolf Cavalry model because the wolves were closer....I was fine assaulting into the wolves because I thought that they would be wargear for the battle leader, allowing me to swing into him. As a result, he piles a wolf, the Thunderwolf Cavalry model, and his battle leader all into the burnas and destroys them, while Ghazghkull's 7 STR10 attacks get to only kill two wolves because he's not in base anywhere else.

*****Dashofpepper Mistake #2: If I had known that the wolves counted as a separate unit for combat, Ghazghkull would have gotten out by himself and eaten the battle leader and thunderwolf cavalry model by himself. Instead, I basically lost the entire burna unit, causing Ghazghkull to take fearless saves, which he failed one or two I think.*****

Space Wolf Turn Two:
Stelek rolls for reserves on his remaining scout unit and they don't show up. My backfield is safe for now!

One of his two tactical squads disembarks and moves towards my orks that assaulted his 12" moving rhino.


The other squad moves around the rear of his rhino to line up for some damage on the blue orks I presume.


He opens fire on my buggies with lascannons! Phenomenal shooting there sees only one explode. I built them myself and put on some custom exhaust pipes which stick up above the model - he could see them through the battlefield, and took the opportunity to open up on them. Fortunate dice rolls for me there.


His longfangs open up on my gretchin with frag templates, fragging two of the little buggers, who proceed to run squabbling off the table with Stelek's small blast template.


Into assaults: Ghazghkull is still on the Waaaugh! with his 2+ invulnerable save. He eats the Thunderwolf Cavalry model (who had two wounds to the battle leader's one) and he and the battle leader consolidate into each other.


His tactical squad assaults into my boyz, and kills about half of them before getting eaten.


The boyz and nobs consolidate out of their mutually won combats.


My reporting is going to break down from here - this was 4 days ago now, and my pictures are getting a little disordered.

Ork Turn Three:
Not much to report post-Waaaugh! My battlewagons rammed 12" forward and barely missed one of his remaining razorbacks. My trukk moved up into firing distance of his Longfangs, while my rokkit buggies and left Loota squad finish off another rhino. My nobs advance into the last tactical unit and mulch them. Ghazghkull finishes off the wolf lord and consolidates 2" out of combat, and chooses to sit in cover.

Space Wolf Turn Three:
Stelek's scouts enter the fray; he gets to choose any board edge and picks my back table edge. He plops onto the table behind my gretchin, who are screening my Lootas. His remaining Imperial Stormtroopers jump out of their razorback and advance towards the objective Ghazghkull is sitting on. His longfangs finally have some good side shots on my battlewagons, which failed to ram into any of his vehicles this game and....boom. Boom. He opens up on Ghazghkull with his plasma shots from the ISTs and lascannons and.....Ghazghkull takes two wounds, with one left. So far this game, I've failed 14/19 4+ cover saves on my nobs, wagons, and Ghazghkull. Sonofanitch!


We resolve assaults up by the remaining nobs, and after taking a couple wounds, my nobs clean them up and consolidate. One of the spectators grins at me - he totally forgot about his scouts!

Ork Turn Four:
Ghazghkull moves up towards his Longfangs while my nobs and boyz move into cover and behind ruined vehicles - its a vehicle graveyard over there, and I want to make sure I hold that corner.

*****Dashofpepper Mistake #3: I didn't know that the Imperial Stormtroopers were troops. They were his last troop choice on the board, and if I had killed them, I would have been in position to leverage a game win on objectives if table quarters ended up tied. At the time, my hope was to engage the longfangs, kill them, consolidate into cover, and then hunker down through whatever retaliation he dished out with 3+ cover saves for going to ground.****


Stelek stops me, moves my models back and notes that he forgot to use his scouts. I said, "You want to rewind a turn and do stuff you forgot?" He says, "Well, yes!"

*dramatic pause*

The TOURNAMENT GAMER inside me is screaming at me that he's punished me for every mistake, checked my movement around him to the centimeter to make sure I'm not moving more than I should or within 1" of enemy models, took advantage of me at the Ghazghkull + Burna debacle, and that he's frankly been kind of mean to me throughout the game (self-admittedly afterwards because he was stressed out), and that I should not only deny him the opportunity to rewind a turn, but also rub it in.

The FRIENDLY GAMER inside me says that this is a friendly game, not part of the tournament....also that this is a showcase match for an event that I truly believe is going to be awesome, and I don't want to start it off on the wrong foot.

Friendly gamer wins out and I tell him to go for it. He assaults my gretchin, eats them, and consolidates into cover next to my first Loota squad.

Back to Ork Turn Four. Ghazghkull is looming over the long fangs, and my rokkit buggies move up to throw rokkits ineffectually at anything.


Both Loota squads turn and fire onto his scouts, who pass 7/7 cover saves. Ah.....crap.

Ghazghkull assaults into the Long Fangs, who pass counter attack, cause 3-4 wounds, and Ghazghkull fails one. His last one. He falls over dead.


Space Wolf Turn Four:
Long Fangs eat my rokkit buggies.


His scouts move up and assault the first Loota squad. They die miserably. My trukk suffers a weapon destroyed result.

Ork Turn Five
I dodge my trukk behind the BLOS terrain in the middle. Things are looking sketchy now that I'm losing my backfield and fire support, so I pull back to defend. My nobs jump into terrain to hold the center objective, while my Lootas attempt to weaken the 5 scouts tearing up my backfield without any luck.



Space Wolf Turn Five
Stelek jumps my last squad of Lootas with his scouts (who stick around this time but are locked in combat) and the the rest of his firing is ineffective against my stuff or can't see.

At this point, its 8 minutes past midnight, we were supposed to be closed up shop at midnight, registration starts in less than 7 hours the next morning.....we D6 to see if the game continues and roll a 2. We stop.

In the final tally:
I own two table quarters to his two table quarters - he moved a razorback into an empty quarter to take it, while my trukk, Lootas, and Nobs were enough to hold one table quarter, while I had a trukk boyz squad in the other quarter. Tied Table quarters. His ISTs own one objective, while my nobs in the middle hold another objective. We're tied on objectives. Victory points: He's got two razorbacks, a scout squad, an IST squad and three 5 man longfang squads on the table. I've got a single Loota unit, a trukk boy squad, a trukk, and my nobs, mostly worth half victory points for him - the Lootas were at 3-4, and were the only thing left that he didn't get at least part credit for. Tertiary was winning victory points by 250 points, which we also tied - moving it to straight victory points - which he won.

*****Dashofpepper Mistake #4: Hindsight is 20/20, and this one probably cost me the game. If we had stuck to rigid format, his 4+ save scouts would have been out in the open, with no cover, while two squads of Lootas and a gaggle of gretchin fired at him unmolested; no cover or armor saves. Instead, he got to sweep through my gretchin, consolidate into cover, hit my Lootas, consolidate into cover, and hit my second squad of Lootas the following turn....also preventing me from two turns of firing at his remaining units. Did I make the right choice? I think so. My pride will recover.*****

Post-Game Analysis:
I've earned some respect for Stelek as a player. People were looking for some sort of fisticuffs, but in reality, we just have a professional disagreement about Orks. I would have preferred to ROFLstomp him to demonstrate that Orks *are* all that and a bag of corn, but he's a gifted player. As I pointed out, I made a few critical mistakes throughout the game. The game was also slow as some people have noted. I took a *LOT* of pictures (only 3/4 are on here - the others I can't figure out which order they go in, which is why pictures are sparse at the end. Its also 3:00 AM and I've been up almost 22 hours right now. Work tomorrow is going to suck. I shouldn't have finished this tonight; should have let it go. I've been writing this for almost FIVE HOURS!

Point being: Taking pictures slows a game down. I try doing it quickly, but its inevitable. Also, with one exception I haven't been an Ork player since there was snow on the ground in North Carolina. I *did* play slowly because I was worried that I would forget important things, so was meticulous that I hit up everything in my moving/shooting/assaulting. My DE army plays much more quickly; I've been using it a lot. I had a great game, earned some respect for Stelek, and would be happy to add him to my group of friends that I play on a regular basis if distance permitted / Vassal interested, as long as his friendly demeanor materialized, and not his angry face.



Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 08:42:21


Post by: Zid


Great report, i consider it a win for you still dash! I wouldn't have been so nice after the guy was obviously such a douche about... well, everything else


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 08:51:16


Post by: Cilithan


Nice read, thanks for the effort of writing this report.

Good that you had a cool game and especially good that you managed to keep it adultlike (you allowing him to replay the Scouts for instance). Well played!

So, next time your going to show the world that Necron are perfectly viable and competative? (Norbu and others allready illustrated that iirc, but still :-) ).

The conclusion that this game - and many others - warrants, might be that lists/army's are not that 'all or nothing' as some like to think. We've had plenty of examples where lists that were frowned upon, did really well.
Blackmoor surprised a lot of people with his Eldar, Norbu continues to do great with Daemons. You are doing great stuff with DE and Orks.
Maybe many a list with inherent quality and an answer to most threats, in the hands of a competent general is a potential tournamentwinner...

I recognise that Stelek writes very competative lists and I read and enjoy his reviews and tactics. Still, when someone like Blackmoor manages a tournamentwin with a list that makes a lot of people go 'Huh?' it brings a smile to my face.
Maybe being a good general actually is of great importance. Which is good news, because that means improving upon yourself and becoming better at this game is possible! :-)

Also DoP: congrats one a great tournament result! (I understand you finished top 5 out of 90 players?)

Cilithan


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 08:58:49


Post by: eNvY


Lmao @ the re-wind, especially after he started moving your models around without your permission? That is off limits and forgetting to move your models is your own fault and generally just considered a stupid play that you'll hate yourself about later.

I would've told him to remember better next time and moved on with my turn.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 09:50:55


Post by: reds8n


Well played, seems it was a fun game..which is the main thing.

...you really drink something called Knob Creek ?

Oh, if we can avoid calling people "douches" and the like please, it's toy soldiers yeah ?


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 10:29:33


Post by: DiscipleofYawgmoth


Well, the big day finally came, you recognize your mistakes, and you acknowledge the game overall was pretty good. The friendly gamer in you shone through and in the end that's what's important. It's a GAME and the purpose is to have FUN. WAAC seems to forget this, but you didn't. You're obviously the bigger man for it (Haha weight joke not really.) Good game and if anyone reading this even halfway says Orks aren't worth their salt then they can piss off. Simple as that. Good stuff as always, Dash.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 12:22:49


Post by: -Nazdreg-


Stelek stops me, moves my models back and notes that he forgot to use his scouts. I said, "You want to rewind a turn and do stuff you forgot?" He says, "Well, yes!"


I would have strangled him for that...
You can ask politely, but just moving the enemy models back is not very nice...
But good, you let him redo his movement, I would have done it too Winning because an opponent forgets a critical movement is not very satisfying.

I assume you did well due to the bad matchup against wolves, Dash. And without the mistakes, you could have won. But thats all theory.

Overall solid playing I think from both sides.

The terrain discussion is somehow a little silly and unnecessary in my opinion. Why doesnt the TO let you just play your terrain? Well still funny the picture of a battlewagon climbing a wall... oO

I love those prestige duels Too bad you both seemed to be quite stressed during the game


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 12:42:56


Post by: DarthDiggler


Wow 24 kp in one list. That's not many VP's for you to get per shot you take and per assault you make. Did he lose 17 kp and you lost 11? Yet VP's were under 250pts? If those are right then I see no correlation between VP's and KP's. It's good for MSU Marine lists to not have KP missions, there is no denying that.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 12:51:36


Post by: Just Dave


reds8n wrote:Well played, seems it was a fun game..which is the main thing.

...you really drink something called Knob Creek ?


Oh yeah, i saw some Knob Creek even over 'ere in ye' ol' Britain! Would've had some as well if my liver wasn't pre-occupied with another drink. What's it like Dash? With a name like that surely it's awesome!

Well played though Dash, i think you did yourself justice through sportsmanship (OK, as sporty as 40K can be) and ability/result. I agree that Stelek should act more like he did then than his *ahem* internet persona, but it was a good game, well played.

So are you going to try Necrons now?


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 14:29:24


Post by: Dashofpepper


1. The Knob Creek: I've never had it - this was called "The Whiskey Challenge." Winner got the good stuff, loser got the bad stuff. Stelek doesn't drink so I got them both, but I was drinking Captain Morgan, so I think Hulksmash ended up with our bottles.

2. Zid: While Stelek *does* have some interesting posting techniques and thoughts, he wasn't a "douche" during our game. He admitted to not being on his best behavior, but I have an incredible level of tolerance (read my "Real Life Batrep?") for things. I dropped him a friendly reminder mid-game that we were having a friendly game and he eased up significantly. When you're playing a game that everyone is watching, and that half of the internet wants you to lose horribly in, it can be hard to relax - I'm used to standing in front of people and speaking (sober), so the hub-bub wasn't a big deal.

3. Stelek said after our game that he didn't change his mind about anything. I also didn't change my mind about anything. I'm hoping that with reflection, he will realize that his competitive list that went 6-1, did equal to mine, and barely squeaked out a win against me, in circumstances that could easily have swung the other way on a dice roll or two. While I agree that Orks aren't on par with Space Wolves, I *do* think the statement, "Orks suck" is unwarranted - which is what this was all about. I'd like to see that opinion change.

4. Yes, Necrons are next. I don't imagine I'm going to be able to crush everyone with them, or that they are a top tier army, but I do plan on trying to surprise people with their resilience and stubborn unwillingness to lose a game peacefully.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 14:34:26


Post by: Shrubs


Great report and a well played and very well behaved game, congrats.

Edit: that may sound demeaning and that's not what I want. In a showoff like this it takes a big man to allow the opponent to correct mistakes. I greatly respect you for that.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 14:35:01


Post by: Dashofpepper


DarthDiggler wrote:Wow 24 kp in one list. That's not many VP's for you to get per shot you take and per assault you make. Did he lose 17 kp and you lost 11? Yet VP's were under 250pts? If those are right then I see no correlation between VP's and KP's. It's good for MSU Marine lists to not have KP missions, there is no denying that.


I need to work this one out.

I had a total of....16 killpoints.
Stelek had....24 killpoints.

At the end he had....6 left alive.
I had....4 left alive. I don't remember what happened to my KFF Mek, so I'm going to presume he died somewhere.

So I killed 17 killpoints and he killed 12 killpoints?

Indeed, VP are a benefit to MSU armies.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 14:42:33


Post by: helgrenze


Ok dash... Now a question.....
I have read and enjoyed your batreps and noticed that in this battle you seemed to abandon one of your primary tactics.
So, why didn't you mass fire the burnas into, well, ANY of his units? From previous batreps, its a tactic that works exceedingly well for you.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 14:55:47


Post by: WarOne


Stelek had LOTs and LOTs of anti-mech fire coming along in his list, and a whole bunch of vehicles to boot around as well.

The good news is that Orks have the KFF Big Mek, but in the end he wittled down the transports and BGs with a withering barrage of fire. If it wasn't for that thing in the middle of the field and the Deffkoptas, I wonder how long the game really would of lasted.

And as for Necrons, they cheat a bit because of their Monoliths. I've had focused fire on 1 Monolith take about 20-30 Multimelta, Las-Cannon, and Missile fire merely shrug it off, for the potential to land a roll to hit, a 6 followed by another 6 is insane just to take it down.

When I played my fragile CSM versus a similar anti-tank list, all my rhinos get knocked out/immobilized/stunned and my trio of Defilers are left a smoldering husk after 1 turn.

Sometimes it is not fair how lists can stack against each other, but in this case, your Orks caught him good at a few junctures. It just was he edged you out in the end.

Good battle report.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 15:08:12


Post by: Just Dave


Bugger about the knob *snigger* Creek...

Good Luck with the Necrons though! After reading your real-life battle report recently I was going to suggest trying an army such as Necrons/Daemons/Templars or whatever to show how skilled a general you really are and how you're not so much a WAAC gamer, but competitive in competitive environments IMHO.
Even so, I think Necrons may a bridge too far as it were and i think even you will struggle with them, but good luck none-the-less, I look forward to seeing your progress.

I can't believe he didn't change his view on Orks at-all after that game. His Space Wolves - one of the most competitive codex's around - were drawn against what he considers to be a rubbish army! aaah well, Ignorance is bliss!


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 15:14:43


Post by: Dashofpepper


helgrenze wrote:Ok dash... Now a question.....
I have read and enjoyed your batreps and noticed that in this battle you seemed to abandon one of your primary tactics.
So, why didn't you mass fire the burnas into, well, ANY of his units? From previous batreps, its a tactic that works exceedingly well for you.


The burnas were in the battlewagon on my right flank, his troops were all on my left flank, on the opposite side of the battlewagon wall. There wasn't an opportunity to get them over to anything that they *could* burninate....not to mention that everything came in units of 5, which 15 burnas would have been wasted on shooting.

I just now realized that in a tournament with no killpoints, just VP, where MSUs are encouraged, Burnas probably don't belong. There was only one game where they got to actually *burn* something.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 15:39:40


Post by: RiTides


Was there not a 3-color minimum? The space wolf army appears to consist of a lot of models with a blue wash over a white primer, or something similar?

It doesn't seem like that kind of army should be allowed to compete in a "painted" tournament... unless I'm missing something...

And as to the space wolf list: Min/Maxing ftw...



Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 15:42:36


Post by: pretre


RiTides wrote:Was there not a 3-color minimum? The space wolf army appears to consist of a lot of models with a blue wash over a white primer, or something similar?

It doesn't seem like that kind of army should be allowed to compete in a "painted" tournament... unless I'm missing something...

And as to the space wolf list: Min/Maxing ftw...



It was something like blue, with aqua drybrush and metal weapons. The idea was that it was supposed to look ethereal as it was Chaos count-as SW.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 15:53:47


Post by: warboss


why am i not suprised stelek fields a barely painted army and has a goatee?

nice report but i'm certainly suprised you let him get the take back especially after he started manhandling your models without asking.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 16:29:35


Post by: Platuan4th


warboss wrote:why am i not suprised stelek fields a barely painted army and has a goatee?


Were you not around for his Lava Imperial army he posted on Dakka? He likes to paint his stuff in unique schemes.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 16:39:12


Post by: pretre


Platuan4th wrote:
warboss wrote:why am i not suprised stelek fields a barely painted army and has a goatee?


Were you not around for his Lava Imperial army he posted on Dakka? He likes to paint his stuff in unique schemes.


I like the Phantom much better than the Firey one.

The Firey Red Paintjob.



The Phantom Paintjob at a previous event (back when he was still on Dakka) and not the same army.




Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 16:43:40


Post by: Lucid


At work, so i couldn't read the rest of the coments, but the bat rep was great. I think you prooved your point about Orks. you didn't need to manhandle him to show that they are still a viable army even though the meta has changed greatly since thier codex release. You basically tied SWs against what many consider to be a really good player. I'd say its a win for Ork players everywhere.

Basically a Rocky Scenario. all you had to do was go the distance


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 19:14:56


Post by: Magilla Gurilla


Excellent Battle Report from a Class Act.

I watched the U-streams (after the fact) and I must say that I hope I get the opportunity to get mauled by your orks.

To bad things didn't work out so well in day 2.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 19:28:46


Post by: MegaDave


I don't imagine I'm going to be able to crush everyone with them, or that they are a top tier army, but I do plan on trying to surprise people with their resilience and stubborn unwillingness to lose a game peacefully.


I don't know Dash, you might be able to punch some people good with Necrons. I've only had my 'crons for a few months, and am currently 22W-4L with them. I even tabled a couple of armies. Just depends on who you go up against.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 20:07:34


Post by: grayspark


That's the first time I've ever seen a Big Mek used without a Shock Attack Gun.

Is it really useful that way?

Wouldn't a Warboss be better for CC?

and by the way, it seems like DashOfPepper didn't alert of you of some things before the battle...

Such as the Wolves being a seperate unit...

Orks Rule!!!


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 20:10:00


Post by: warboss


pretre wrote:
Platuan4th wrote:
warboss wrote:why am i not suprised stelek fields a barely painted army and has a goatee?


Were you not around for his Lava Imperial army he posted on Dakka? He likes to paint his stuff in unique schemes.


I like the Phantom much better than the Firey one.


i vaguely remember him on dakka years ago but not his armies. as for the armies, the lava one is eye catching but barely meets the 3 color minimum standard that some tournies have; i see a base color and two others with no detail work (guns, faces, arms, etc). the lava look done properly looks awesome as evidenced by multiple eldar avatar paint jobs. as for the phantoms, there's a base color and a lighter dry brush over it with little to no basing. it's the minimum effort to call it painted (although he did spring for rock basing on the lava guys). i'm certainly not a golden demon painter but i also don't blog loudly and vulgarly about how i'm the be all and end all in the world of toy soldiers. people that do blog like that generally don't put much effort into their armies and he didn't disappoint.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 20:19:49


Post by: pretre


Both armies are at least 3 colors, which as you said is the minimum. Not everyone is a great painter and some folks want to do their own thing, including wacky ghosty or light-based paint jobs.

warboss wrote:
i'm certainly not a golden demon painter


Luckily you have a good secondary career in axe grinding...



Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 21:03:27


Post by: Eidolon


Who cares about the guys paint jobs. Maybe he just doesnt enjoy painting miniatures, I know I dont. So I use lots of wash and what not to get my army to a decent level without having to spend hours working on it.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 21:11:17


Post by: Inquisitor_Syphonious


grayspark wrote:Is it really useful that way?


4+ save to all my vehicles? Golden.

Wouldn't a Warboss be better for CC?


4+ save to vehicles...? If eldar had that in a other wise sub-par HQ choice, i'd ditch the council in a heartbeat to cram it in there.

and by the way, it seems like DashOfPepper didn't alert of you of some things before the battle...


Stelek you mean? Dashofpepper admitted not knowing alot about space wolves, nothing wrong with that. I actually had one opponent at the NOVA, who had never fought eldar, tell me to stop explaining what eldar units did what and the special rules, since he didn't want help!

Nothing wrong with that kind of painting, my actual painting skills were a hatchetjob, Stelek's actually had a good quality to them.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/17 21:27:19


Post by: Sarigar


Dashofpepper wrote:
DarthDiggler wrote:Wow 24 kp in one list. That's not many VP's for you to get per shot you take and per assault you make. Did he lose 17 kp and you lost 11? Yet VP's were under 250pts? If those are right then I see no correlation between VP's and KP's. It's good for MSU Marine lists to not have KP missions, there is no denying that.


I need to work this one out.

I had a total of....16 killpoints.
Stelek had....24 killpoints.

At the end he had....6 left alive.
I had....4 left alive. I don't remember what happened to my KFF Mek, so I'm going to presume he died somewhere.

So I killed 17 killpoints and he killed 12 killpoints?

Indeed, VP are a benefit to MSU armies.



It's a heated debate with the KP vs. VP, but is it any surprise folks were doing well with 5th ed codexes (Read: cheap transports) where VPs replaced KPs? There was no real trade off when taking MSU and 5th ed codexes.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/18 01:10:02


Post by: carmachu


warboss wrote:

i vaguely remember him on dakka years ago but not his armies. as for the armies, the lava one is eye catching but barely meets the 3 color minimum standard that some tournies have; i see a base color and two others with no detail work (guns, faces, arms, etc). the lava look done properly looks awesome as evidenced by multiple eldar avatar paint jobs. as for the phantoms, there's a base color and a lighter dry brush over it with little to no basing. it's the minimum effort to call it painted (although he did spring for rock basing on the lava guys). i'm certainly not a golden demon painter but i also don't blog loudly and vulgarly about how i'm the be all and end all in the world of toy soldiers. people that do blog like that generally don't put much effort into their armies and he didn't disappoint.


Wow, some sour grapes there. Its much better done then dash's three ring circus paint job, looks wise. And probably whatever you have.


Anyway, Good job Dash and Steck.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/18 01:30:02


Post by: MorbidlyObeseMonkey


carmachu wrote:Wow, some sour grapes there. Its much better done then dash's three ring circus paint job, looks wise.

Really? IMO it could be better if Stelek painted the guns and other details and based the models, but right now that "Space Wolves" army is gross.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/18 02:06:34


Post by: carmachu


MorbidlyObeseMonkey wrote:
Really? IMO it could be better if Stelek painted the guns and other details and based the models, but right now that "Space Wolves" army is gross.


I dont think so. I like that ghost look for a chaos army.

Gross? Man please post pics of your army, so we can see if you actually can paint any better.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/18 06:22:19


Post by: MorbidlyObeseMonkey


carmachu wrote:Gross? Man please post pics of your army, so we can see if you actually can paint any better.

Click on the link in my sig and judge for yourself.

To clarify, I am not knocking Stelek's painting abilities, because I have seen his other armies and he's actually a pretty good painter. I am just saying that the Space Wolves army he brought to the NOVA was ugly. Obviously he left himself very little time to paint his army due to his indicision regarding the list he wanted to take. I hope he finishes off his SW army because I think it has the potential to look really good if the details were finished.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/18 06:42:33


Post by: Snikkyd


MorbidlyObeseMonkey wrote:
carmachu wrote:Gross? Man please post pics of your army, so we can see if you actually can paint any better.

Click on the link in my sig and judge for yourself.

To clarify, I am not knocking Stelek's painting abilities, because I have seen his other armies and he's actually a pretty good painter. I am just saying that the Space Wolves army he brought to the NOVA was ugly. Obviously he left himself very little time to paint his army due to his indicision regarding the list he wanted to take. I hope he finishes off his SW army because I think it has the potential to look really good if the details were finished.



I rather like his paintjob, but I agree it looks kind of, unfinished...


As for the battle, Stelek is obviously a good player, and his build is one of the toughest possible, so I'd say you did great considering your own list isn't purely optimal.

Does it feel good to at least be able to make friends with one of your former internet haters?


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/18 06:43:14


Post by: Ennkay


My one comment on this is the following:

Dash, i hear from DAR that you take absinthe like a little girl, we will rectify this issue when we 1v1 on my travel table drug out into the woods near my house...with absinthe


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/18 13:17:46


Post by: guildmaster


Great battlereport Dash!

Ok you didn't win. But I would say you proved him that orks are a competitive army.

I play orks myself and Space wolves are a really bad matchup for us. I wished he had used his Tau instead.

I think Stelek should easen up and enjoy the game a little more. Moving the other players models and asking to redo a turn is bad gaming.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/18 14:38:55


Post by: Dashofpepper


Ennkay wrote:My one comment on this is the following:

Dash, i hear from DAR that you take absinthe like a little girl, we will rectify this issue when we 1v1 on my travel table drug out into the woods near my house...with absinthe


I took a shot, coughed for a moment, and commented on the potent nature of something I'd never tried before.

You need to ask DAR who took a shot, tried not to gag (in my hotel room), and sweated violently all throughout dinner. =p



Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/18 15:15:19


Post by: time wizard


Thanks for clearing it up for me too.

I thought that if the synapse creature didn't count for IB at the beginning of the movement phase, it wouldn't count for units falling back either since in both cases the model have begun their the movement phase out of synapse range.

Any further discussion of this should probably be moved to YMTC.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/18 16:03:34


Post by: helgrenze


anyone else get the impression that Stelek was expecting Dash's list? True that his list would work on pretty much any army that relied on vehicles to get units into combat, but......


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/18 16:14:27


Post by: Dashofpepper


helgrenze wrote:anyone else get the impression that Stelek was expecting Dash's list? True that his list would work on pretty much any army that relied on vehicles to get units into combat, but......


I did not feel like his list was built for me. If he *had* pulled out a TWC list with all models uniquely equipped, and other anti-ork kinda stuff, I would have been disappointed, but Stelek went the same distance I did in the GT the following two days.

Like I pointed out in my batrep, I made some mistakes, and it cost me the game. Stelek's Batrep is here. He basically took my batrep and interjected his comments into it.

There were some things we both didn't like about the game. Terrain for instance, and how it wasn't what either of us thought it was going to be. We both would have deployed differently. I would have picked one side or the other instead of dead center.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/18 16:15:07


Post by: Eidolon


No, stelek is not stupid enough to list tailor to beat dash when he knows that many other kinds of armies will be there. If we consider the fact that he ran the army in regular play too, then there is no way he list tailored.

I also agree with the clarified version of why orks suck according to stelek. You get to do the exact same thing every game.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/18 18:34:35


Post by: carmachu


MorbidlyObeseMonkey wrote:
carmachu wrote:Gross? Man please post pics of your army, so we can see if you actually can paint any better.

Click on the link in my sig and judge for yourself.

To clarify, I am not knocking Stelek's painting abilities, because I have seen his other armies and he's actually a pretty good painter. I am just saying that the Space Wolves army he brought to the NOVA was ugly. Obviously he left himself very little time to paint his army due to his indicision regarding the list he wanted to take. I hope he finishes off his SW army because I think it has the potential to look really good if the details were finished.


That you dont like the style, is fine. I'm not sure i like the lava guard myself at all, its well done.

But seriously, bad set of terms there- Gross? Seriously? Its got a decent set of conversion, a good theme, and a decent table top quality paint job. Gross is more like the 10 year old that splashes colors or just dips in the pot...


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/18 18:50:23


Post by: Just Dave


Without trying to take the mods job away from them, do you guys want to move back on-topic?

I really don't get the impression Stelek's list was tailored. It looked like a fairly all-corners SW list to me.

I have to admit to disliking Stelek's attitude, to me he comes across as very arrogant that he IS right. Either way though, i think it was a good game and I'd like to see a round 2

edit: in terms of the whole take-the-turn back thing, I remember in my introduction game within a Games-Workshop store it was me and 15+ Dark Eldar vs 10 Space Marines and I forgot the shooting phase and the staff-member (guy who was teaching us) wouldn't let me take it back. So if I couldn't in a 150pts introduction game I don't see why Stelek should've in a tournament. It was very generous of you Dash, no doubt, but still...


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/18 20:05:27


Post by: helgrenze


Well, having looked things over again, I have to agree it was a very good all-comers list. Small units and armor seem to be the advantagous option for marine players in this edition.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/18 20:47:38


Post by: wuestenfux


Absolutely nice reports. Congrats on the placement.
And Orks don't suck.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/18 20:48:52


Post by: Ennkay


Dashofpepper wrote:
Ennkay wrote:My one comment on this is the following:

Dash, i hear from DAR that you take absinthe like a little girl, we will rectify this issue when we 1v1 on my travel table drug out into the woods near my house...with absinthe


I took a shot, coughed for a moment, and commented on the potent nature of something I'd never tried before.

You need to ask DAR who took a shot, tried not to gag (in my hotel room), and sweated violently all throughout dinner. =p



this is information i was not privy to, but is hysterical/expected

p.s
my absinthe has a picture of Ernest Hemingway on it

p.p.s
combine this with a nerdhammer table in the woods and gak and you have a flying rodent gak crazy nerdhammer game

baals to the waal


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/18 21:14:13


Post by: Dashofpepper


Ennkay, it was DAR gagging in my room and pouring sweat during dinner.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/18 23:18:12


Post by: Ennkay


Dashofpepper wrote:Ennkay, it was DAR gagging in my room and pouring sweat during dinner.


i know, that makes it 100% more funny, because he said you don't do absinthe well, and you say that he doesn't do absinthe well. Obviously you both do absinthe terribly(but one of you is a champion at rum)


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/18 23:32:32


Post by: Dashofpepper


Ennkay wrote:
Dashofpepper wrote:Ennkay, it was DAR gagging in my room and pouring sweat during dinner.


i know, that makes it 100% more funny, because he said you don't do absinthe well, and you say that he doesn't do absinthe well. Obviously you both do absinthe terribly(but one of you is a champion at rum)


I just wanted to try it. =p

Never had it, didn't know what to expect, it burned on the way down. It was always the first drink of the night on an empty stomach. Absinthe strikes me as something you break out after you've had a few drinks already, when it doesn't burn going down.

For example - I crack a bottle of Captain Morgan open. Take a swig. The first one is going to make me wince. Always. 1/4 of a bottle later, it just tastes spicy going down. Add in some Absinthe there and I'm probably going to be rolling a good buzz.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/19 00:09:21


Post by: Ennkay


Dashofpepper wrote:
Ennkay wrote:
Dashofpepper wrote:Ennkay, it was DAR gagging in my room and pouring sweat during dinner.


i know, that makes it 100% more funny, because he said you don't do absinthe well, and you say that he doesn't do absinthe well. Obviously you both do absinthe terribly(but one of you is a champion at rum)


I just wanted to try it. =p

Never had it, didn't know what to expect, it burned on the way down. It was always the first drink of the night on an empty stomach. Absinthe strikes me as something you break out after you've had a few drinks already, when it doesn't burn going down.

For example - I crack a bottle of Captain Morgan open. Take a swig. The first one is going to make me wince. Always. 1/4 of a bottle later, it just tastes spicy going down. Add in some Absinthe there and I'm probably going to be rolling a good buzz.


True enough, However starting the morning with a shot or two of absinthe gets you rolling pretty well, now louching(the method of preparing it as a fancy pants drink) it with cold water and a flaming sugar cube is a different story entirely: Burn removed, keep the nice licorice taste, still alcoholic as gak, apply directly to the forehead


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/19 21:12:46


Post by: carmachu


Just Dave wrote:
edit: in terms of the whole take-the-turn back thing, I remember in my introduction game within a Games-Workshop store it was me and 15+ Dark Eldar vs 10 Space Marines and I forgot the shooting phase and the staff-member (guy who was teaching us) wouldn't let me take it back. So if I couldn't in a 150pts introduction game I don't see why Stelek should've in a tournament. It was very generous of you Dash, no doubt, but still...


I dont want to start drama, so let me start with that.

But having read Dash's report and then Stelek's, the accounts of the "take back" differ a bit. Where as he asked him to move his models into assualt three times....


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/19 21:58:43


Post by: Just Dave


Yeah, I posted that before reading Stelek's account but if I'm honest I'm still believing Dash more, although I fully admit there may be some personal bias there...


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/20 02:47:58


Post by: Dashofpepper


I'm not griping that Stelek beat me. He's a talented gamer and his win was well-earned.



Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/20 15:52:56


Post by: Fearspect


@Dash: You ever try Sailor Jerry? It goes down easier than Captain Morgan's while being 92 Proof, making it extra dangerous.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/21 00:21:36


Post by: Dashofpepper


I haven't - Mike introduced me to some stronger stuff, but it crossed the barrier of "not tasty by itself anymore."

Interestingly, he also had some scotch, which I will have to get the name of that dropped my jaw. Outside of Johnny Walker Blue label and Gold label ($200, $75 respectively) I find sipping scotch to be a difficult experience to classify as truly pleasurable, but he had some low-mid range scotch that was the equal of blue label....and I've had a few bottles of the good stuff.

The problem with rum is that there's no real opportunity to sit down and TRY the various ones. You have to buy a bottle to try it, and I'm picky. The little airplane sized bottles don't come in a lot of different flavors of rum.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/21 01:12:49


Post by: Eidolon


Scotch was my first experience with alcohol, drank like 8 ounces of the stuff in one go and nearly vomited. I hate it with all my heart


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/21 02:28:55


Post by: time wizard


Eidolon wrote:Scotch was my first experience with alcohol, drank like 8 ounces of the stuff in one go and nearly vomited. I hate it with all my heart


Hate Scotch?! Heresy! Single malt and Haggis is an experience not to be missed!


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/21 12:56:01


Post by: Just Dave


I don't blame him when it was his first experience and he drunk that much of it!

2nd times a winner?


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/21 18:55:39


Post by: thehod


Most of the 5th edition armies Orks tend to have problems with but it really comes down to player skill with Orks. Most of DoP's success w/ his Orks is mostly with his skills and experience playing them. I have to say your one big weakness atm is your relative lack of knowledge of other armies. While Stelek told you what was in his list, someone else could blindside you with something. I try to make it a habit of buying every codex that comes out. While not cost effective, I have an idea on what my opponent is trying to do with the army. Good game the both of you.

The moral of this story is armies and army lists are one part of 40k but even the best of army lists still require some skill to use properly and win with.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/21 20:07:32


Post by: metallifan


Read this when the link to Stelek's blog first featured it. The author had a good sense of humour. Something about Stelek finally working up the courage to leave mom's basement, and you finally managing to stay sober long enough for a game, Dash

Anyway, it was a really good report. There were some moments where I caught myself chewing my nails when things got hairy for you. I was really hoping to see one of those "How in the feth did he manage to do that!?" wins that you seem to pull off every now and then, but no luck.

Still, it was a really good report. Sounds like you guys had a great game. Congrats on your almost-win, and the fact that you came out of it not hating eachother. Even though you didn't get the game, I'm feeling that you still accomplished your main goal. I don't think Stelek is going to be posting any more "Orks Suck" blogs for a little while


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/21 20:18:21


Post by: DaveL


Just Dave wrote:edit: in terms of the whole take-the-turn back thing, I remember in my introduction game within a Games-Workshop store it was me and 15+ Dark Eldar vs 10 Space Marines and I forgot the shooting phase and the staff-member (guy who was teaching us) wouldn't let me take it back. So if I couldn't in a 150pts introduction game I don't see why Stelek should've in a tournament. It was very generous of you Dash, no doubt, but still...

I got the impression, when I read both reports, that the place was loud, and the two of them misunderstood each other. As in, Stelek though Dash had heard him ask Dash to move his pieces (which Dash was near, and the place was crowded enough that Dash probably would've done so to be polite if he'd heard), when Dash hadn't... and what Dash meant as "Are you done with the assault phase?" was misinterpreted as "Are you done with that assault?"

Oddly enough, that seems to be the point on the whole "Orks suck"/"Orks are fine" debate as well. Dash says his build works fine. Stelek says it's basically the only one that does work reasonably well against all comers (as opposed to lists which work well against some non-pathological lists but can't do anything against other non-pathological ones), and therefore good Ork builds are predictable. Which, in the end, isn't a good thing, but I suppose "Orks suck" might be an overly strong way of putting it. So it kind of boils down to a debate on language and tone.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/23 23:23:36


Post by: helgrenze


Dashofpepper wrote:The problem with rum is that there's no real opportunity to sit down and TRY the various ones. You have to buy a bottle to try it, and I'm picky. The little airplane sized bottles don't come in a lot of different flavors of rum.


Well, now that you live in Florida, you just need to find a good Rum bar and explain to the tender that you are looking to sample various examples. They will probably start with the fair and most common stuff and work up in price from there.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/24 00:07:54


Post by: Backfire


DaveL wrote:
Oddly enough, that seems to be the point on the whole "Orks suck"/"Orks are fine" debate as well. Dash says his build works fine. Stelek says it's basically the only one that does work reasonably well against all comers (as opposed to lists which work well against some non-pathological lists but can't do anything against other non-pathological ones), and therefore good Ork builds are predictable. Which, in the end, isn't a good thing, but I suppose "Orks suck" might be an overly strong way of putting it. So it kind of boils down to a debate on language and tone.


Really, it boils down more to Stelek's fan club, who tend to be much more fanatical (and much more clueless) about the supposed Ork suckage...


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/24 01:45:54


Post by: Eidolon


As a member of Steleks fanclub I would like to explain why I feel orks suck. Its not that orks cannot compete. They can, I would put them in the top 4 armies out there, with ba, wolves, and guard. Its that anytime you play an ork player you know exactly what he will do. Charge forward screaming WAAAGH and punch your dudes. Its the same as guard, sit back and shoot from vehicles. It gets very predictable and old to play against.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/24 02:31:13


Post by: Dashofpepper


Eidolon wrote:As a member of Steleks fanclub I would like to explain why I feel orks suck. Its not that orks cannot compete. They can, I would put them in the top 4 armies out there, with ba, wolves, and guard. Its that anytime you play an ork player you know exactly what he will do. Charge forward screaming WAAAGH and punch your dudes. Its the same as guard, sit back and shoot from vehicles. It gets very predictable and old to play against.



Hrm.....I disagree.

In most of my games, my Orks actually are crossing the field to engage in stimulating intellectual debate and the furtherance of intellectual tolerance between different races. Despite my showing of good will and charitable intent, others decide to alienate and fire on my gentle scholars. So they get bbqpwned.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/24 02:42:35


Post by: Lemartes


This was my assumption with the make love not war ork colors. The ignorance of some races. Especially those Marinz being all uptight and all. Great Batrep. For the record I am not a member of anyones fanclub.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/24 03:33:10


Post by: Snikkyd


Eidolon wrote:As a member of Steleks fanclub I would like to explain why I feel orks suck. Its not that orks cannot compete. They can, I would put them in the top 4 armies out there, with ba, wolves, and guard. Its that anytime you play an ork player you know exactly what he will do. Charge forward screaming WAAAGH and punch your dudes. Its the same as guard, sit back and shoot from vehicles. It gets very predictable and old to play against.


But by that logic Guard suck too, which is obviously not true. I can guess what most armies are going to do just by seeing his build, assuming its a common one, so what makes orks different? They have some unpredictable stuff too, Stelek himself posted such a list on his blog just recently.


But hey, to each his own. Some people enjoy running up and puching you in the face, obviously Stelek does not, thats fine, let's just use what we like without calling out others for disagreeing.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/24 20:47:29


Post by: Just Dave


Eidolon wrote:As a member of Steleks fanclub I would like to explain why I feel orks suck. Its not that orks cannot compete. They can, I would put them in the top 4 armies out there, with ba, wolves, and guard. Its that anytime you play an ork player you know exactly what he will do. Charge forward screaming WAAAGH and punch your dudes. Its the same as guard, sit back and shoot from vehicles. It gets very predictable and old to play against.


Surely something more along the lines of "Tedious"/"Repetitive"/"Not-the-best" is more suitable than suck?
If people had said not that they outright thought Orks suck, but that they find them "Tedious"/"Repetitive"/"Not-the-best" would've meant that this whole heated conflict would've never happened?


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/24 23:58:35


Post by: Eidolon


Just Dave wrote:
Eidolon wrote:As a member of Steleks fanclub I would like to explain why I feel orks suck. Its not that orks cannot compete. They can, I would put them in the top 4 armies out there, with ba, wolves, and guard. Its that anytime you play an ork player you know exactly what he will do. Charge forward screaming WAAAGH and punch your dudes. Its the same as guard, sit back and shoot from vehicles. It gets very predictable and old to play against.


Surely something more along the lines of "Tedious"/"Repetitive"/"Not-the-best" is more suitable than suck?
If people had said not that they outright thought Orks suck, but that they find them "Tedious"/"Repetitive"/"Not-the-best" would've meant that this whole heated conflict would've never happened?


Well yes. I personally consider tedious/repetitive/not the best to all fall under the suck category. I tried to explain this, I think Stelek also did in a later post. I dont see why there would be conflict over someone on the internet saying army x sucks.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Snikkyd wrote:

But by that logic Guard suck too, which is obviously not true. I can guess what most armies are going to do just by seeing his build, assuming its a common one, so what makes orks different? They have some unpredictable stuff too, Stelek himself posted such a list on his blog just recently.


But hey, to each his own. Some people enjoy running up and puching you in the face, obviously Stelek does not, thats fine, let's just use what we like without calling out others for disagreeing.


I feel that guard do in some ways suck. The majority of guard lists are sit in vehicles all day and spray special weapons out the top hatch. This doesnt mean that I refuse to play against guard, or look down on guard players. One of my best gaming buddies plays guard, and I have fun playing against them frequently. Same for orks. Its just that after playing against battlewagon waagh x for the umpteenth time you know exactly what will happen.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/25 00:05:36


Post by: loki old fart


You could say that about any army in 40k.
If you play to an amries strong points, and everybody else does there all going to play roughly the same


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/25 01:14:05


Post by: Lt. Coldfire


Cilithan wrote:So, next time your going to show the world that Necron are perfectly viable and competative? (Norbu and others allready illustrated that iirc, but still :-) ).

The conclusion that this game - and many others - warrants, might be that lists/army's are not that 'all or nothing' as some like to think. We've had plenty of examples where lists that were frowned upon, did really well.
Blackmoor surprised a lot of people with his Eldar, Norbu continues to do great with Daemons. You are doing great stuff with DE and Orks.
Maybe many a list with inherent quality and an answer to most threats, in the hands of a competent general is a potential tournamentwinner...

Cilithan

Do you know what Blackmoor's list was? I'd like to take a peek


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/25 02:17:12


Post by: Snikkyd


Eidolon wrote:
Snikkyd wrote:

But by that logic Guard suck too, which is obviously not true. I can guess what most armies are going to do just by seeing his build, assuming its a common one, so what makes orks different? They have some unpredictable stuff too, Stelek himself posted such a list on his blog just recently.


But hey, to each his own. Some people enjoy running up and puching you in the face, obviously Stelek does not, thats fine, let's just use what we like without calling out others for disagreeing.


I feel that guard do in some ways suck. The majority of guard lists are sit in vehicles all day and spray special weapons out the top hatch. This doesnt mean that I refuse to play against guard, or look down on guard players. One of my best gaming buddies plays guard, and I have fun playing against them frequently. Same for orks. Its just that after playing against battlewagon waagh x for the umpteenth time you know exactly what will happen.



Well, I see what you mean. You can tell when a guard player sets 10+ tanks as his deployment, he's probably just going to sit there and blast away all game. But if you can't handle the firepower bearing down on you, then knowing wat he's going to do doesn't really help much. My point is, if they can still compete even if your opponent knows how your going to play, then they can't be all that bad. Plus, you have to consider that most armies will have many builds, so you won't be able to fully guess what will happen just by knowing their codex.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/25 02:47:32


Post by: xxBlazinGhostxx


Good batrep Dash.

Personally I don't like Stelek's list. Lacking in originality. 5 GH with a melta gun in a razorback with wolf guard leader if wanted?


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/25 06:58:40


Post by: Mannahnin


Saying an army "sucks" is saying it is a bad army. Orks aren't a bad army.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/25 17:37:32


Post by: Eidolon



Unnecessary part of the post removed.




xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:Good batrep Dash.

Personally I don't like Stelek's list. Lacking in originality. 5 GH with a melta gun in a razorback with wolf guard leader if wanted?


You could say that about any army though.

4 wagons full of boys and gazzy

imperial guard with chimeras, vet squads, and valkyries

necrons with warriors, destroyers and a pair of monoliths




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mannahnin wrote:Saying an army "sucks" is saying it is a bad army. Orks aren't a bad army.


No orks are definitely one of the best armies out there. My definition of suck though includes armies that have one option. Take razorspam wolves. They can run across the table and punch you in the face. They can sit back and gun you down. They can play last turn objective rush. Wagon orks can only play run across the table. Es ist geistlos, wie die deutsch sprechen.



Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/25 17:44:57


Post by: xxBlazinGhostxx


Necrons have an old codex full of so-so units, so ya...

Haven't seen 4 wagons yet... my cleansing flamer is waiting.

Guard, well, touche. Though they make sense to me.

SW? Nearly every tourney list has some SC and a bunch of razorbacks.

BA is the same, just make everything faster, replace the word "space wolf" with blood angel and make the guys much less manly and you got it.



Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/25 17:53:58


Post by: phillosmaster


Eidolon wrote:
I feel that guard do in some ways suck. The majority of guard lists are sit in vehicles all day and spray special weapons out the top hatch. This doesnt mean that I refuse to play against guard, or look down on guard players. One of my best gaming buddies plays guard, and I have fun playing against them frequently. Same for orks. Its just that after playing against battlewagon waagh x for the umpteenth time you know exactly what will happen.


You can make a fairly effective shooting ork list. There is also nothing wrong with a well built kan wall as well. Every army has it's optimal builds. You see alot of battlewagon assault because it usually works very well. Ork players get upset because the ork codex certainly doesn't suck and it's hardly a repetitive army to play unless you only built up 1 list.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/25 22:15:13


Post by: Ailaros




lol, all you needed was an imperial fist player, and your color schemes would have been complete.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/25 22:18:45


Post by: xxBlazinGhostxx


Oh ya, loving the burna wagon. The one with the seemingly airbrushed flames is the burna wagon right?


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/25 22:50:16


Post by: Mannahnin


Eidolon wrote:
Mannahnin wrote:Saying an army "sucks" is saying it is a bad army. Orks aren't a bad army.


No orks are definitely one of the best armies out there. My definition of suck though includes armies that have one option. Take razorspam wolves. They can run across the table and punch you in the face. They can sit back and gun you down. They can play last turn objective rush. Wagon orks can only play run across the table. Es ist geistlos, wie die deutsch sprechen.


If an army genuinely only has one option, but still manages to win, then it must be a really brutal army. It's always easier to beat something predictable, so if an army is genuinely predictable but wins anyway, then it has to be a crusher. Personally I don't think Orks are actually all that predictable. Battlewagon rush works, half BW/half Trukk works (see WarGamesCon), ork Bikers work (see Paintraina's reports from ETC), Nob Bikers can be brutal, Kan wall is effective, etc.

When you say "orks are definitely one of the best armies out there", you are 100% disagreeing with the assertion that they "suck". Sucks = bottom of the barrel.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/25 23:09:46


Post by: -Nazdreg-


@Suck or not suck

Every army, which is well built, should have the ability to adapt the play style to the opponent. What does an outgunned IG do (yes that happens)? What do you do with Orks against the better infighters (i.e. grey hunters)?

Saying "Orks suck" is just an unnecessary harsh expression imo. You just dont show any knowledge saying that. If it is meant provocative, it is ok. But otherwise it sounds just premature and a bit ill conceived.

If you say "I dont like them", its fine. Its a personal opinion.

We all know Orks are top level concerning power and good concerning versatility. So what is Steleks point there?
Showing balls? If he has them, he shouldnt need to show it making unqualified noise. (also too harshly expressed... )
Idk...

What I think Dash has, is a very personal ork style. That makes it difficult to deal with in game. Steleks list is imho a bit more obvious, although it has some trickery in it too...





Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/30 16:04:50


Post by: Dashofpepper


-Nazdreg- wrote:

What I think Dash has, is a very personal ork style. That makes it difficult to deal with in game. Steleks list is imho a bit more obvious, although it has some trickery in it too...



In case the pink didn't make the "personal style" too obvious. =p


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/30 16:10:04


Post by: -Nazdreg-


In case the pink didn't make the "personal style" too obvious. =p


I did not have the honour to deal with the colour of your army yet.
But it looks... lets say: "extravagant"


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/30 20:23:51


Post by: xxBlazinGhostxx


-Nazdreg- wrote:
In case the pink didn't make the "personal style" too obvious. =p


I did not have the honour to deal with the colour of your army yet.
But it looks... lets say: "extravagant"


Especially with that flaming wagon!


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/30 21:13:07


Post by: Sageheart


great battle rep


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/31 02:46:26


Post by: threewolves


Great batrep, was a good read to end the day at work.

Have a quick question though, and hoping someone might know the answer.

Just coming back to game after 11 years, and used to play Space Wolves back then, so picked up the codex and a bunch of wolves to get going with.

But I saw Stelek had these in his unit,

Troop5: 5x Inquisitorial Stormtroopers + 2x Plasmaguns
Troop6: 5x Inquisitorial Stormtroopers + 2x Plasmaguns

and I want to say I had seen another batrep with something similar, and wasnt sure how they were able to use em. Granted, I am probably missing something, but thought I would ask.

Thanks



Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/08/31 23:47:35


Post by: Warmaster


threewolves wrote:Great batrep, was a good read to end the day at work.

Have a quick question though, and hoping someone might know the answer.

Just coming back to game after 11 years, and used to play Space Wolves back then, so picked up the codex and a bunch of wolves to get going with.

But I saw Stelek had these in his unit,

Troop5: 5x Inquisitorial Stormtroopers + 2x Plasmaguns
Troop6: 5x Inquisitorial Stormtroopers + 2x Plasmaguns

and I want to say I had seen another batrep with something similar, and wasnt sure how they were able to use em. Granted, I am probably missing something, but thought I would ask.

Thanks



All imperial forces can use inquisitorial allies (at least until daemon hunters and witch hunters get a new book). From either of those books you can field 0-2 troop options (which the storm troopers are troops), 0-1 fast attack, 0-1 elite, and 0-1 hq.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/09/06 08:27:57


Post by: guildmaster


The Stelek discussion is just a scam. Of course he choose to say "Orks suck" because it attracts more readers and create more drama. He later explain that he mean that they are one sided. But that would be a a stale headline. He's the Fox news of 40k.

I agree the basic ork strategy is one sided. Run up and bash 'em in da 'ead. But this doesn't mean you can't play them with other strategies. You have a good chance to surprise your opponent when you use an alternative plan.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/09/06 22:25:40


Post by: Lycaeus Wrex


This battlerep is pretty cool, but I have to say that the paint jobs could be better, though I got a bit rude saying it... I guess at least some of the Orks have more than a single colour but...pink?! My hobby just died a little...lol

Would it *really* have hurt to put a few colours on those models? The Wolves in particular look like something even younger players surpass in their first few weeks of the hobby. I'd have been ashamed to take an army like that out of my house, let alone allow pictures of it put up on the internet...

/painting rant over.

Otherwise, as already noted, nice report!

L. Wrex

Let's try to keep our criticisms polite, folks. -The Mgmt.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/09/07 02:13:32


Post by: Dodiez


Lycaeus Wrex wrote:This battlerep is pretty cool, but I have to say that the paint jobs could be better, though I got a bit rude saying it... I guess at least some of the Orks have more than a single colour but...pink?! My hobby just died a little...lol

Would it *really* have hurt to put a few colours on those models? The Wolves in particular look like something even younger players surpass in their first few weeks of the hobby. I'd have been ashamed to take an army like that out of my house, let alone allow pictures of it put up on the internet...

/painting rant over.

Otherwise, as already noted, nice report!

L. Wrex

Let's try to keep our criticisms polite, folks. -The Mgmt.


Um. I know you were edited due to your rudeness, however I will say this:

This is not the painting and modeling forum. This is the battle report forum. The pics are not there for your critique. Paint schemes are subjective and therefore subject to opinion. Obviously, your opinion blows.

All of my orks are more than a single color. Just because they are pink does not mean they care for your painting critique. If you want to bash people for painting, visit the appropriate forum.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/09/07 02:21:44


Post by: Mannahnin


Anything in a battle report is up for critique; the visuals are an important part of many reports' appeal, and all the nice photos are definitely one of the strong points of Dash's reports. If a model looks really good, a compliment is not out of place. If (for example) terrain looks like junk, it can affect the enjoyment of the report and be worth making constructive comments on.

That said, any post critiquing someone's work (or particularly them as a person) should be made politely, to avoid giving unnecessary offense and to improve the likelihood that the recipient will take it constructively.

Dodiez, do you think you could link to one or two photos showing off the nice paintwork in the army?


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/09/07 03:48:03


Post by: Dodiez


Mannahnin wrote:Anything in a battle report is up for critique; the visuals are an important part of many reports' appeal, and all the nice photos are definitely one of the strong points of Dash's reports. If a model looks really good, a compliment is not out of place. If (for example) terrain looks like junk, it can affect the enjoyment of the report and be worth making constructive comments on.

That said, any post critiquing someone's work (or particularly them as a person) should be made politely, to avoid giving unnecessary offense and to improve the likelihood that the recipient will take it constructively.

Dodiez, do you think you could link to one or two photos showing off the nice paintwork in the army?


No, I don't like doing that, sorry. I don't like the criticism by what I see as opinion only. Even Van Gogh wasn't appreciated during his time. Not comparing my stuff to his, obviously, just using that as an example.

If people want to see some pics, they can check the gallery posted under Dash.

If people didn't appreciate the pics in the battle reports so much, I would insist that Dash never take any. Most people do NOT appreciate my color scheme and my lack of washes or however else they think I should paint. There's a reason that my stuff isn't posted in the P&M forum. I don't feel I should be subjected to people's negativity when I didn't ask for their opinion. I've improved greatly since I started painting, however I probably will NEVER paint how people think I "should".

Sorry to bog this thread down with this, but I really thought that commenting on painting in this portion of Dakka was in bad form. I thought I read that somewhere in another thread here but maybe it was in another section.



Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/09/07 04:05:16


Post by: Mannahnin


Hey, criticism of one's artistic efforts can often be uncomfortable. Totally understood. The first army I painted looks pretty crappy; I rarely play it in public at this point. In a hobby which does have an artistic side like this one, discussion of different pieces' artistic merit is, I think, inevitable. We try to keep a pretty firm hand on rudeness in such criticism, and in the P&M forums, specifically, it's sometimes more like the Iron Boot of Politeness.



Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/09/07 06:05:04


Post by: Dashofpepper


The problem is that people think that Dodiez' orks are painted badly and that she needs tips on how to improve them.





I assure you, those are exactly the colors that she intended, painted exactly the way that she wanted them.

I gave her the Waaaugh! Banner and said, "Paint this to represent the theme of your army. She painted pink polka-dots on the shoulder pads and a cabbage patch paint scheme. She likes bright colors, she doesn't like the effects of washes or inks....highlighting dulls the bright colors that she intended in the first place.

People not liking a paint scheme is one thing - people thinking that she didn't do it on purpose and needs improvement seriously pisses her off.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/09/07 07:18:57


Post by: thehod


On the bright side of things, atleast your Orks really standout and in some weird way its also pretty fluffy. Most warbosses despise sneaking around and would rather do a straight up fight.


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/09/07 10:00:27


Post by: Shrubs


thehod wrote:On the bright side

These orks only have bright sides


Nova Open Whiskey Challenge: Dashofpepper vs. Stelek @ 2010/09/07 12:47:38


Post by: Lycaeus Wrex


My apologies if I came across as brasher than I meant to.

I guess I should clarify and say that, whilst the style of Dash's Orks aren't quite my cup of tea, at least there is more than one colour there; my main gripe is with Stelek's motley collection of blue-y white so maaaaybe I'm not even posting on the right site but...I like Dakka more that YTTH

The way I percieve it is that Dash and Stelek both have quite large followings in the community, a lot of people look at their work, they way they play, the army lists they compile and the reports they post. A lot of people draw inspiration from the tactics used, especially considering their respective track records.

Now, considerng the amount of traffic reading these reports, I expect at the very least *some* effort to have gone into the aesthetic style of the army rather than concentrating soley on the face-smashing aspect, 3 colours + basing is not that hard to achieve, so really there's no excuse. I also think it can generate a bad example to other up-and-coming players of the game that such a large aspect of the entire hobby can be simply ignored.

Maybe I'm reading a little bit too far into it, and I didn't particularly want to de-rail the entire thread on whether or not you should paint your stuff for tournaments, thats up to the TO at any rate; it just dissapointed me somewhat that experienced players don't seem to take as much pride in their hobby outside of the gaming scene...

L. Wrex