Ok so assuming the 40k Universe dukes it out non-stop like they do; at the end of the day what race do you think will be left? Or at least vasty Dominant.
I left Chaos Daemons out of it because...being immortal is cheating
I cant imagine the Imperium (Space Marines, IG, etc) going on forever and i feel like when the imperium goes CSM wont be far behind (assuming they havnt been wiped first)

In the end i can imagine a never ending cycle of war between Nids and Orks. Considering Orks can grow and live in nearly every environment, grow very quikly, and combined with the fact its nearly impossible (short of Exterminatus) to rid a planet of Ork spores i think they can just keep bringing the pace of constant warfare other races wont be able to survive against forever.

Then you have Nids, driven only by the need to feed, but im curious as to what happens when all the fleets (Leviathan, Behemoth, Kraken) Finally all meet? Are they all under the same Hive Mind or will it become a cannibal frenzy anyway? I figure the fleet will reach such a critical mass it wont have any other choice.

War innevitably has a winner. Who's it gonna be Dakka?

Side topic: What race do you think would get to the emperor first? Nids eating whatever is left would be a horrifying conclusion to the human race, so would a warboss siting in his throne

Has to be the Imperium of Man, not only do they possess the Astartes which are the equal of most in the universe in combat, the Imperium has access to countless worlds in which they can conscript soldiers when needed. Not to mention the Mechanicum with Titans and such...

Orks are too limited in their thinking, always warring with each other when they get bored... problem solved on that end.

The Eldar are living on borrowed time, Dark Eldar even more so.

Then there is the Tau... next...

Chaos has daemons and such which is cool ally wise, however they have failed in every attempt so far, so pattern history would indicate future failings.

Necrons... first Tau, now Necrons... please... next and next

Lastly, the only real threat; the Nids... however with The Imperiums ability to completely nuke planets from orbit... the Nid threat can be dealt with.

Cheers!

But that same thinking is what makes the Orks such a threat! They will just keep on fighting because its what they love to do.

Im not really familiar with Imperium lore but if they can nuke planets like that then why the hell havnt they done it already?

Hmm, pontificating on this the other day.

Eldar are out, for obvious reasons. The Imperium I feel would eventually crumble as well. Tau don't have anything particulalrly special to protect them. So who doeas that leave?

Orks: Possibly, but other races have means of Exterminatus too. Plus, Orks can survive in NEARLY every environment, but I think a dead planet (Nids, the ruffians) doesn't count as one of them.
Necons: Nids don't like fighting them, there's loads of them, and they can live on a dead world. They'll be fine methinks.
Tyranids: Will be around for a long time, but will eventually move on to another galaxy. Does that count?
Chaos: As you said, Daemons have an unfair advantage. Chaos Space Marines could retreat into the Warp, in which they are pretty much untouchable by the other races, but may crumble due to infighting.
Dark Eldar: Reallu don't know how to call this one-There isn't many left, but then again they too are safe in the webway. They stay most of the time anyway, and whilst they do fight amongst themselves, they aren't stupid.

If every thing went balls out Mankind would eventualy die off, with it chaos would soon die off with out new people to corrupt and turn. eldar and tau wouldent make it, the orks and nids would have a massive war but I think the nids would evetually win because the orks would let them eat biomass to get stronger becaue it would be "Fun"...leaving the necrons and nids, since nither of them get any thing from the outher they wouldent fight so the nids leave to find more stuff to eat leaving the necrons....necrons win, mind you it is a compleatly void of life barren galaxy but they still win.

Necrons already won once. No reason to think they wouldn't win again now that their opposition is less supported (no Old Ones gumming up the works).

The Imperium of Man will fully achieve it's Manifest Destiny of conquering the Galaxy.

I hate to say it, but I'm actually going with the imperium.

The reason is twofold. Firstly, they reproduce. This means that races like eldar and necron are ultimately doomed to failure.

Secondly, they exist to survive. Other races exist to fight and destroy. Orks, for example, reproduce quickly, but once they hit a certain critical mass, they automatically engulf themselves in civil war. Ultimately, they have their own population control. Likewise, while the tyranid are voracious, etc, everything is always fighting with each other in a malthusian nightmare. Plus, once the hive fleets are snuffed out, that's it. No more bugs.

The imperium as an institution may not last indefinitely, but humanity I think will be the ultimate victor. It has both the ability to reproduce and expand endlessly while simultaneously being able to organize themselves peacefully in order to multiply their power. The only reason they don't horribly dominate is because THE ENTIRE GALAXY is aligned against them.

As for tau, well, lol. No.

Necrons... they stand up after you kil them..

Phototoxin wrote:Necrons... they stand up after you kil them..

Unless a couple of Guardsmen with pointy sticks assault them!

I said it before and I'll say it again: 'Nids eat the Galaxy.

Monster Rain wrote:The Imperium of Man will fully achieve it's Manifest Destiny of conquering the Galaxy.

The only reason to have xenos is to keep the Guard and Marines busy.

Ailaros wrote:
The imperium as an institution may not last indefinitely, but humanity I think will be the ultimate victor. It has both the ability to reproduce and expand endlessly while simultaneously being able to organize themselves peacefully in order to multiply their power. The only reason they don't horribly dominate is because THE ENTIRE GALAXY is aligned against them.

Good points.

The ability to survive is sometimes forgotten, when everyone looks at the big explosions and other nice special effects.

Mankind is able to adapt and can change its course. Others are 'programmed' to follow their course and I think the flexibility of the Humans
will be its biggest asset.

- Nids can just devour. They are unable to create, the nids may breed like mad but their ultimate fail is the lack of recycling.
So nids may devour biomass, breed more nids. But they cannot alter this course.

- Eldar will just run away as always. Go hide in another Galaxy. They could return, but maybe the Eldar like it in their new home better?

- Chaos, the faction where everyone strives for his own personal gain. Unlikely to see a winner as none of the chaos minions and obviously
none of their 'gods' would accept to be second in power. The Prefix "ruinous" does hint on ruining all they lay their hands on,
thus chaos itself is included in beeing ruined....

- Necrons. Worthies contender IMo, they won once. Now, last race implies there is no one else left, and thats too boring for C'tan.
May however stay neutral in the end and return to stasis. So Necrons could be still there, but don't count as they sleep for another
eternity.

- Tau. Really? Maybe if they learn to identify the real threats instead of pissing of the IoM.
I believe they don't make it. Plot armor isn't unlimited you know.

- Orks are so popular, they could hope to have a spore survive the last days. OTOH orks need to fight to grow. Pacify them and the
meanest will be half the size of a grot. And there is the supersecret fungizid, hidden behind the extra shiny personal resting place of
the one and only rightfully leader of this Galaxy. Orks will make it far, but 'programmed behaviour' runs sooner or later out of options.



side topic:

Humans. No doubt, they are already where the Emperor is.

1hadhq wrote:- Nids can just devour. They are unable to create, the nids may breed like mad but their ultimate fail is the lack of recycling.
So nids may devour biomass, breed more nids.

Not sure about that. The same logic could apply to human reproduction. . .without food there isn't any.

Also, Tyranids seem to be the most efficient recyclers around, not sure why you say they do not do it at all. They use their own biomass (as well as others) to make new things all the time.

Badly worded maybe?

Nids make more nids or keep it as biomass. But they can't grow their own food or control their hunger.
Should have said: nids cannot create their own self sustaining environment. Other races can at least try to keep their homes inhabitable.
I think survival may need self-restriction.

Nids would either leave if food becomes to rare to search for it without wasting more energy than possible to reabsorb, or
finally find their nemesis ( which I guess are necrons ) so I doubt their victory.

Well said!

Though being capable of intergalactic travel biologically sort of lends to them not even trying to make anything sustainable, I think you covered it rather well.

Ailaros wrote:I hate to say it, but I'm actually going with the imperium.

The reason is twofold. Firstly, they reproduce. This means that races like eldar and necron are ultimately doomed to failure.

Well the necron alway flee if they are loosing (phase out) and then rebuild the destroyed nercons, and all the non-necrons the c'tan just make, so they dont reproduce but you never actualy kill them thus there number never dwindles, IMHO thats better

I think Necrons, Orks and DE would be the last races.

Necrons can survive anywhere and will wear down any army eventually. Being robots they can wipe out the entire galaxy and it won't cause them any harm. Without others distracting them the necrons can finish sealing off the warp which will defeat chaos.

Orks because they just won't stop. While Tyranids have a similar benefit they have to carry on eating while Orks don't have any requirements because they bring the food with them. While wearing down a tyranid army is hard the orks could possibly do it. Once the imperium falls the number of orks will increase so much they will outnumber even the nids.

Dark Eldar might not win but they could eaily survive. If things start looking bad they could just hide in commorragh until everything is dead of asleep. Once the humans and the rest of the eldar are dead chaos will naturaly weaken to the point slaanesh is no longer a threat to the DE.

I think it has to be Orks.

I can't find the reference, but I remember something being quoted about Imperial scout ships going to the edge of the galaxy and all there was was more Ork colonies and bases.

Having said that, I think alot of the Chaos factions would simply move back into the warp and continue the great game there, albeit on a reduce scale.

People talk about the dark gods dying off once the physical galaxy has been killed off but I don't think that will happen. I think the 4 main powers are powerful enough to be self sustaining. What I imagine you'll see is just a drastic drop in their respective power levels and domains.

My vote comes to orks! they don't need nothing, each one can create a full ecosistem for themselves!. If this is not enough, they live by the day, don't care of tomorrow, they don't need anything but squigs ( that came from their spores) fungus for beer (that came from their spores) and a good brawl.......I ENVY THEM!!!!!!

I vote Necrons as one poster mentioned only the imperium can truly adapt but this isnt true the The Ctan are constantly adapting their Necron servants and the Deciever even has worshipers in the imperium

Also the Pariahs are a clear example of Necrons adapting and using humans

while the orks are a good choice they were beaten by the Necrons once when they were allied with the old ones so this time around should be easier and once the Ctan stop killing each other off and unite and wake up their servants en-mass the necrons will be tough to beat

1hadhq wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:The Imperium of Man will fully achieve it's Manifest Destiny of conquering the Galaxy.

- Orks are so popular, they could hope to have a spore survive the last days. OTOH orks need to fight to grow. Pacify them and the
meanest will be half the size of a grot. And there is the supersecret fungizid, hidden behind the extra shiny personal resting place of
the one and only rightfully leader of this Galaxy. Orks will make it far, but 'programmed behaviour' runs sooner or later out of options.
side topic:

Humans. No doubt, they are already where the Emperor is.

Not true actually, Orks always grow throughout their lives, however they experience a faster rate of growth when exposed to fighting. Orks are an entirely self sustained from the moment spores grow, flawed only through what other races see them as. In an odd way they are the most perfect of all the races.

actually, another thing with the tyranid. They only consume, they never produce.

Human expansion is limited to the amount of food we can produce. Tyranid treat food like the western world treats oil. Tyranid show up, eat everything until it's a barren rock and then move on without planting new biomass to come by and harvest later. This means that Tyranid as a race will experience "peak biomass". After that point, the amount of biomass will go down as it becomes more scarce, making it impossible to sustain the same size of tyranid force. Eventually they will dwindle to numbers so low that they will be easily destroyable by the few human agri-world PDF's remaining. In the end, humans will outlast tyranid until they basically annihilate themselves, and humanity will finish the last few vestiges of them off.

Ailaros wrote:actually, another thing with the tyranid. They only consume, they never produce.

Human expansion is limited to the amount of food we can produce. Tyranid treat food like the western world treats oil. Tyranid show up, eat everything until it's a barren rock and then move on without planting new biomass to come by and harvest later. This means that Tyranid as a race will experience "peak biomass". After that point, the amount of biomass will go down as it becomes more scarce, making it impossible to sustain the same size of tyranid force. Eventually they will dwindle to numbers so low that they will be easily destroyable by the few human agri-world PDF's remaining. In the end, humans will outlast tyranid until they basically annihilate themselves, and humanity will finish the last few vestiges of them off.

I am not sure that made any sense. If so, I simply do not agree.

Once they get anywhere near "peak biomass", it seems they move to another galaxy.

Everything but necrons and tyranids: Killed. Necrons would enslave anything that wasn't eaten. THe nids could completly slaughter the orks, as they could just eat the spores. Tyranids couldn't kill necrons, and would probably run away. Necorns would close off the warp. Necorns win.
Remeber: Necrons can't die, and there are a near-infinite number of nids.

Hopefully no one would be standing by the end but if i had too choose i would be hoping that the IoM survived in some form.

ok,(IN MY OPINION)
1st to go would be the eldar,they`re living on borrowed time
2nd tau,i mean,they`re too close to the tyranid blob,they arent gonna get far.
3rd, the imperium,they`re just gonna fall in on themselves,and suffocate under all that "for da empruah"
4th,dark eldar,either because of the wole "THEY`RES BUGS EVERYWHERE,RUUUN!"dilemma,or the same thing of the regular eldar.
5th,orks,they`res a lot of them,but they`res a lot more bugs,they`ll just swallow up an ork world whole.
6th,the necrons,thire powerful,but the tyranids devour planets,ALLMOST WHOLE,plus,can the crons reproduce?they`ll run themselves down before they can kill offf 1/2 the bugs.
7ththe tyranids themselves,i mean,can you keep up a force lke that with NO FOOD LEFT?

why not chaos,you say? because,all the chaos gods would go into a "deep sleep"of some sort,at least untill the bugs are gone.

The nids would probably eat most things BUT they would move on once the biomass was gone. necrons would be the only things left caus not even nids can eat metal. the necrons would then close the warp gates so bye bye chaos. problem solved.

Nids win, move on, leaving necrons to rule the galaxy

Tough one, but I'd say Orks. Fighting them makes them stronger, and given that this is about if the races engaged in one big all-out war, Orks have the advantage.

Orks, of course. They are a true survivor race.

As far as any race but the Necrons are concerned, there have always been Orks in the galaxy, and there always will. Anywhere in this galaxy one might go, Orks have already been there-- or aren't long in the coming.


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the craig machine wrote:5th,orks,they`res a lot of them,but they`res a lot more bugs

There's no actual proof of this, just a guess by paranoid, often insane people.

I'm surprised that Tyranid are not having a wide lead. The Imperium burned 200 worlds just to give them a fighting chance against this unstoppable force of nature.


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HiveMind J wrote:The nids would probably eat most things BUT they would move on once the biomass was gone. necrons would be the only things left caus not even nids can eat metal. the necrons would then close the warp gates so bye bye chaos. problem solved.

Nids win, move on, leaving necrons to rule the galaxy

Yes, I totally agree. Necrons oversee a totally barren wasteland of a galaxy eaten by 'nids.

Which was an action by a rogue inquisitor that was opposed by the Inquisition and the Imperium's High Lords.

Ya, well it worked.

Yes. But that doesn't mean it was necessary.

We'll I'm glad you can rest easy in the face of the Tyranic threat.
We're all gonna die!

The Tyranids can and have been pushed back in the past without the sacrifice of 200 worlds.

The sacrifice of merely a single company in a chapter of Space MArines is insignifigant compared to the resources of 200 Imperial worlds.

Yeah the Nids would just eat everything. EVERYETHING.

space_elf5996 wrote:Yeah the Nids would just eat everything. EVERYETHING.

Sure, that's why they're locked in stalemate with just one Ork empire. Bring 'em on!

Well orks are up there too, they kill everything living and on edead ork means 50 reproduced orks, they're mushrooms

Ichar IV shows the danger of having your planet infiltrated by just a single brood of genestealers.

The most dangerous aspect of a large scale Tyranid invasion in The Shadow of the warp effect. The enitre Imperium is set up so that the harder you stab at it the harder it resists. The Hive mind's Shadow effect nullifies The Imperiums most basic survival technique because it isolates all attacked worlds.

Also the Tyranid are attacking from below the galactic plane and heading towards earth itself because of the Astronomicon.

Basically, we're all gonna get eaten.


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Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

space_elf5996 wrote:Yeah the Nids would just eat everything. EVERYETHING.

Sure, that's why they're locked in stalemate with just one Ork empire. Bring 'em on!

That's just one hivefleet of many.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Sure, that's why they're locked in stalemate with just one Ork empire. Bring 'em on!

The Tyranid codex doesn't call it a stalemate--the Tyranids have outpaced the Orks.
"The Tyranids show no signs of stopping. Despite the machinations of Kryptman and the ferocity of the Orks, the Tyranids were not only surviving the Octarius War, they were thriving in it."

kirsanth wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Sure, that's why they're locked in stalemate with just one Ork empire. Bring 'em on!

The Tyranid codex doesn't call it a stalemate--the Tyranids have outpaced the Orks.
"The Tyranids show no signs of stopping. Despite the machinations of Kryptman and the ferocity of the Orks, the Tyranids were not only surviving the Octarius War, they were thriving in it."

That redirection by Kryptman was his worse idea ever. They will emerge bigger and stronger than ever. Hence the "Thriving".

KamikazeCanuck wrote:That's just one hivefleet of many.

... and it's just one Ork empire of an uncounted race that is more populous than any other race in the milky way.

Orks, Tyranids, or Necrons

Assuming you take GW maps as cannon, the Tyranids are going to consume the whole galaxy. A few necrons may survive here and there, but that's pretty much it.

If you think otherwise after looking at a map of the 40k galaxy, you are vastly underestimating what the scale of the hive fleets means.

Not really. It's up to interpretation.

Orks still populate more of the galaxy than Tyranids do, but more importantly, it does not tell us the density of those hive fleets, or if they're in a single wave or a stream. It could merely be that what is shown is the path, complete with debris, not that the whole thing is the hive.

The thing is though, bacterial tyranids could just eat the ork spores.

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:That's just one hivefleet of many.

... and it's just one Ork empire of an uncounted race that is more populous than any other race in the milky way.

of which 99% of their battles are against their own kind.


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Melissia wrote:Not really. It's up to interpretation.

Orks still populate more of the galaxy than Tyranids do, but more importantly, it does not tell us the density of those hive fleets, or if they're in a single wave or a stream. It could merely be that what is shown is the path, complete with debris, not that the whole thing is the hive.

Exactly Tyranid don't occupy or maintain empires. They simply consume, reload and move on.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:of which 99% of their battles are against their own kind.

Exactly Tyranid don't occupy or maintain empires. They simply consume, reload and move on.

1: Which means they never get out of practice and they're never unready for battle, because they're ALWAYS fighting.

2: Which is why tyranids are weak. Break their backs and they can never really recover.

Break the Orks? They'll be back. Ther's not even a guarantee that Tyranids consuming a planet will destroy all Ork spores, as some of them go rather deep underground.

Jokorey wrote:Assuming you take GW maps as cannon, the Tyranids are going to consume the whole galaxy. A few necrons may survive here and there, but that's pretty much it.

If you think otherwise after looking at a map of the 40k galaxy, you are vastly underestimating what the scale of the hive fleets means.

This isn't quite correct. No one knows exactly how many Nids are out there, just that the Hive Fleets so far are but a portion of their strength. So, while it's true they haven't committed the greater part of the numbers into attacking the galaxy, we also don't know how many more Hive Fleets they can spare to burn. It could be 1000 Hive Fleets, could be 100.

Eldar: Not Likely, survival is the best they can hope for and that won't be forever.

Dark Eldar: They NEED to continue raids as I'm sure Commoragh lacks even the most basic forms of sustenance for a population of any sort (Food, water ect). Unless some sort of daring crusade or Hive Fleet somehow finds its way into the Webway completely by accident then Dark Eldars chances of survival aren't terrible.

Tau: Most likely steamrolled by one superpower or another.

Chaos: Difficult, so long as the Imperium survives its likely that there will always be traitors. The Traitor Legions may soon expend themselves though.

Orks: Hard to eradicate, at least for most races bar Necrons and Nids. Their strength is their own weakness however, and will never emerge to be the dominate race in the galaxy due to infighting.

Necrons: A non-factor. They are designed to harvest life force. With the Nids, Imperium and Orks duking it out there won't be much left at the end of it all. Necrons may very well decide it's time to slumber again. They aren't exactly opportunists.

Ultimately I think that it will come down to a match up between what's left of the Imperium and what's left of the Tyranids. If they get to a point where the Tyranids simply can't expend any more energy in taking over planets (and getting minimal biomass in return) then buggering off may very well be their only option. That or we experience dozens of Hive Fleet splinters breaking up and deciding to stick around the Milky Way for a while. No doubt the Imperium would by this time be shattered, perhaps even non-existent, but that still makes them the only race really capable of becoming the truly dominant force in the galaxy. At the end though, they may just be weak enough for the Dark Eldar to prey upon at whim.

side note:
Terra's fall is extremely unlikely, even less likely than during the Horus Heresy. If word reached the rest of the Imperium that some sort of Waaagh or Hive Fleet was on the doorstep of the Cradle of Mankind the reaction would be unprecendent. Worlds would be conscripted, every Crusade or active warzone would be abandoned, even PDF would be pressed into service and sent on transports. No doubt almost EVERY sinlge Astartes Chapter would send a huge amount of their own forces. The Imperial Fleets would make full speed for the trouble zone, abandoning thier usual routes in their desperation to protect the beating heart of the Imperium. Sure, they would leave a lot of the Imperium utterly defenceless, but you would have to have smashed your way through a great part of the Imperium anyway to get this close. And when you did reach Terra, you would literally have to go through the greater portion of Mankind to get to the Emperor's Throne Room. I don't see it happening. Not from anybody.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Orks: Hard to eradicate, at least for most races bar Necrons and Nids. Their strength is their own weakness however, and will never emerge to be the dominate race in the galaxy due to infighting.

... except, of course, that they already are the dominant race in the galaxy.

Melissia wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:Orks: Hard to eradicate, at least for most races bar Necrons and Nids. Their strength is their own weakness however, and will never emerge to be the dominate race in the galaxy due to infighting.

... except, of course, that they already are the dominant race in the galaxy.

They are not dominant, only populous. There is a difference.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:Orks: Hard to eradicate, at least for most races bar Necrons and Nids. Their strength is their own weakness however, and will never emerge to be the dominate race in the galaxy due to infighting.

... except, of course, that they already are the dominant race in the galaxy.

They are not dominant, only populous. There is a difference.

Define dominant then.

Orks control the most planets.
Orks populate the most planets.
Orks have, collectively, the highest military strength of any faction.

It is only their overwhelming desire for war that stops them from quickly dominating the entire galaxy and wiping everyone else out. This is also their strength, as they aren't ever unready.

IT WILL BE THE MASTER RACE.

I think it will be thw dark eldar, as they can just hide in the webway and wait for everyone else to pass them by.

Unless Daemons find a way in there.

Which they have done in the past, forcing the Eldar to close off certain sections.

Melissia wrote:Define dominant then.

Orks control the most planets.

Woah, doesn't actually say that they control every planet that they live on. There are plenty of Imperial planets where Ork infestations are a problem.

Orks populate the most planets.
Orks have, collectively, the highest military strength of any faction.

Yes, but these orks aren't on the same side. The Imperium is.

It is only their overwhelming desire for war that stops them from quickly dominating the entire galaxy and wiping everyone else out. This is also their strength, as they aren't ever unready.

You just said it yourself? I never said they were unready, I said they aren't capable of galactic domination. Attacking orks possibly means uniting them. Never a good idea.

As long as the C'tan exist . . and lets face it, one will be left standing. . . There will be no stopping them. They have erased life in the galaxy once before, they can do it again.

By quickly dominating I meant completely obliterating. If Orks aren't the dominant race in 40k, then there is none.

Melissia wrote:Unless Daemons find a way in there.

Which they have done in the past, forcing the Eldar to close off certain sections.

through eldar pyskers i believe, the DE don't have any.

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:of which 99% of their battles are against their own kind.

Exactly Tyranid don't occupy or maintain empires. They simply consume, reload and move on.

1: Which means they never get out of practice and they're never unready for battle, because they're ALWAYS fighting.

2: Which is why tyranids are weak. Break their backs and they can never really recover.

Break the Orks? They'll be back. Ther's not even a guarantee that Tyranids consuming a planet will destroy all Ork spores, as some of them go rather deep underground.

How do you break that which knows no fear?

Well if we are going by sheer fluff, not by codex, then it;s hard to call. Necrons are up there, If there are more world engines then it's by by everybody, and the CTan are nigh unstoppable. Also add in that there are 2 more Ctan and it gets interesting. Imperium's biggest problem is that the C'tan called the Void Dragon is apparently sleeping on Mars, and if it comes with Necrons it will wipe out the heart of the imperium before the sluggish thing can respond.

I hate to say it, and i mean HATE to say it but the Orks would be the galaxy dominator. i mean really when a planet is attacked by Orks theres no way to kill them all off unless complete genocide from tactical nukes, planetkill, etc.. Orks reproduce form dead orks and even some orks just come back from the dead.. They are an endless green tide.. it even says in the lore that if orks joined together in a huge alliance then all the galaxy would be engulfed.. So if somehow Gazhgull gains control of all the boyz.. bye bye 40k.. Orks are so messed up that they can take a few peices of complete scrap metal and make a gun out of it that works!... their guns shoot just because they think they can.. its insane!

This is a bit of a tricky question...because who would be left standing and who would dominate the galaxy are two different things...

Dark Eldar and Eldar would likely simply retreat to some unknown space, never to be seen from again. They are all about survival.

Chaos is there, and always will be there, but ultimately, it is entirely dependant on material world to shape it. It is, after all, simply a reflection of our immaterial selves.

Tau are a mystery. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them. They've rose in rank so quickly in recent centuries, who knows what they may accomplish in several more?

Necrons wouldn't perish, but their methodical masters will never dominate the galaxy. They just don't have it in them.

That leaves the Imperium, Orks and Tyrannids. Orks would never be wiped out, but even though they're warlike, they'd never dominate. Because they're not programmed to be megalomaniacs. If they at one point did rule the galaxy, that'd soon end, because they don't lust for power, they just are what they are, don't make excuses, and if they can crush some alien skull while they're being themselves, all the better!

Tyrannids or the Imperium. Or rather, Tyrannids or the Space Marines...because they are the armor of Mankind, the Imperial Guard are simply ablative wounds. It's a tough one. I'm guessing that if the Tyrannids managed to kill off a few dozen chapters, they'd be well on their way to victory. But I still believe the Imperium will prevail. Why? Because we're humans. No race ever invented(albeit by us, humans) has been so good at surviving while subduing everything around them. We're the ultimate Jacks-of-all-Trades of the galaxy. And personally, if there's anywhere the other races would find reffugge against Tyrannids, it'd be Imperium.

So basically, it'd end with a massive clash between a buffed up Tyrannid titan fleet and the combined efforts of the Imperium and the remnants of any other races in the galaxy. A few Tau here and there, a few Eldar noble or patriotic enough to stick around...and I doubt Chaos Gods would just simply let the life in the galaxy be extinguished. You can be sure they'd be backing the Imperium against the Tyrannids in whatever sublt and sneaky way they could. Perhaps the best being that they'd simply stop trying to devour humans the first chance they get.

But I'm assuming in this theory we're gonna continue to fallow fluff and fluff says that that will never happen because of Ork beliefs in might makes right. They'll never unite because of how their Kulture is designed. And the Imperium of Mankind will win this day, just have faith

What kind of question is this, of course Orks will win.

Someone said Necrons are unkillable and always get back up, no problem we'll keep them as pets once we're done kicking in all your heads. Nice to have an enemy you can always fight and don't go all dying all the time, hey? Spare a single tomb world, dump the lot there so any warband and swing by for a right proper fight. Better than Armageddon!

Nids, they know how to fight too, better leave some of them around for the boyz to scrap with. The rest we'll put in da boss's personal zoo and cross-breed with squiggoths.

We'll win in the warp too, cause soon as we krump all your faces, Gork and Mork are gonna be unstoppable. Stomp those pansy chaos gods into pink chaosy mush

Orks or Tyranids. Orks are notoriously difficult to eradicate and are said to outnumber all the other races combined. We don't know the numbers of the Tyranids, but the fact is difficult to track their movements makes it very hard to deal with them. They easily overwhelm PDFs and probably overwhelm other basic forces as well.

1hadhq wrote:
- Necrons. Worthies contender IMo, they won once. Now, last race implies there is no one else left, and thats too boring for C'tan.
May however stay neutral in the end and return to stasis. So Necrons could be still there, but don't count as they sleep for another
eternity.

Wiping out all life in the galaxy is actually their goal. The Necrontyr just hate anything alive, and the C'tan want to kill all psychic lifeforms so the warp can go away. Then they can go to sleep and wait for new life to spring up. This was actually their plan the last time the won and went to sleep. They just woke up too early.

Necrons are unbeatable.

They have time.

Melissia wrote:By quickly dominating I meant completely obliterating. If Orks aren't the dominant race in 40k, then there is none.

You are making the mistake that most populous translates into most dominant. Sure Orks could dominate the galaxy if they wished on whim, they have that capability. The fact is they won't, actually they can't due to their inherent nature. Ghazkghul is an anomoly, an ork that sees the bigger picture. That is what makes him so dangerous.

Statistically speaking, that IS what a dominant race is.

Melissia wrote:Statistically speaking, that IS what a dominant race is.

Wait...so you're telling me that Homo Sapiens is not the most dominant species on Earth?


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Look at it this way. At every single point during the British Occupation of India, the population of India outnumbered their British rulers many many times over. However, it was the British influence that dominated the Indian sub-continent, and this was made possible becuase India was divided at the time into a banquet of Princedoms, Sultanates and other Petty kingdoms that were not only poorly trained by European standards, but were constantly at war with one another.

I know that British and Indian people are the same species, but I think the point stands. Population =/= dominance.

No, because that was species, not race.

Mind you, the term "race" doesn't really apply very well to 40k does it? You know, considering that none of them can interbreed and all. Orks don't even really breed as we humans commonly consider it, I suppose, given their spore-based reproduction. Eldar have a far more complex reproduction cycle, Necrons don't reproduce, Tau are very alien, and Tyranids are spawned.

We should try and define our terms better



If you want to go by raw power, though, it's still Orks. That they do not end up using all of their power against other factions does not mean that they do not HAVE said power. It just means that their priorities are elsewhere.

Melissia wrote:No, because that was species, not race.

Mind you, the term "race" doesn't really apply very well to 40k does it? You know, considering that none of them can interbreed and all. Orks don't even really breed as we humans commonly consider it, I suppose, given their spore-based reproduction. Eldar have a far more complex reproduction cycle, Necrons don't reproduce, Tau are very alien, and Tyranids are spawned.

Look, let's not get into another 40k interbreeding thesis...please?

We should try and define our terms better



If you want to go by raw power, though, it's still Orks. That they do not end up using all of their power against other factions does not mean that they do not HAVE said power. It just means that their priorities are elsewhere.

Exactly what I am saying. Orks have the potential to dominate the galaxy. But they don't...and most likely won't.

Retribution wrote:

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:of which 99% of their battles are against their own kind.
Exactly Tyranid don't occupy or maintain empires. They simply consume, reload and move on.

Break the Orks? They'll be back. Ther's not even a guarantee that Tyranids consuming a planet will destroy all Ork spores, as some of them go rather deep underground.

How do you break that which knows no fear?

With a Power Klaw to the spine.

As said earlier Ghaz is an ork who sees the bigger picture, hes the Ork that wants to dominate the galaxy. If he were ever to ally himself with Wazdakka; who plans on creating a "Interstellar Warp Highway" you would have a WAAGH thats not only Coordinated, but could spring up just about ANYWHERE they wanted to. Orks are drawn to bigger battles, thats why Orks ally and create WAAGH's in the first place. Now imagine the promise that you could fight all the bestest 'oomies and good krumpin means you get to spit on their emperor? Terra would be totally boned if it ever came down to purely defending the emperor.

I would vote for necrons, and tyranids being a close second, neither of which I have played. The way I figure, necrons are the only race that will survive tyranids. So they'll be around forever. And I also figure, even if all tyranids get killed in the galaxy, they came from a different galaxy in the first place and probably have spread to other galaxies. So they have footprints in places where none of the other 40k armies have gone before.

I'd be interested to know how many times this same thread gets created.

And after all the fluff gets sorted out, it comes down to two choices:

1. Tyranorks. The faint wisps of the Tyranid fleet that have thus far entered the galaxy and laid waste to everything are no more than scouts for the actual Tyranid invasion. It has taken the entirety of the Imperium to fight off the barest hint of Tyranids, losing hundreds and thousands of worlds (and space marine chapters) in the process. The current fight between the Orks and Tyranids on (Armageddon?) continues without ceasing; Orks fighting makes them bigger and stronger, while Tyranids consume the biomass of those they kill and adopt / adapt new bioforms to be the most lethal killers possible. The only possible conclusion (since Tyranids suck atmosphere, water, everything from a planet) is that the Tyranids will eventually triumph, and their adaptations with Ork biomass will make them super Tyranids, or Tyranorks.

2. Necrons. The only thing Tyranids fear are Necrons. They avoid tomb worlds very carefully. In fact, none know how many tomb worlds there are, how many necrons lie buried, or anything else. What we *do* know is that the Omnissiah that the humans worship is the C'Tan Void Dragon buried on Mars, and its release will come sooner than expected. The Deceiver has awoken from his millenia long slumber...and there is nothing the Imperium can do to fight a GOD, who consumes suns for a snack. The Nightbringer is up and about too. Since the Tyranids can destroy the galaxy, but won't come near necrons....either the Tyranids will consume all but Necrons and they will co-exist (unlikely) or the Necrons will burn the entire galaxy around them (again) until all life is extinct (again).

If a wierdboy turns a C'Tan into a squig...is he still a god?

HiveMind J wrote:The nids would probably eat most things BUT they would move on once the biomass was gone. necrons would be the only things left caus not even nids can eat metal. the necrons would then close the warp gates so bye bye chaos. problem solved.

Nids win, move on, leaving necrons to rule the galaxy

I'm going to side with this one. The Necrons put up an excellent fight against the Tyranids, but given the chaotic (lolpun) state of the galaxy at the moment I wouldn't be at all surprised if the C'tan simply pull their forces back (or even subtly help) as the Tyranids scour everything from one end of the galaxy to another. The Tyranids aren't interested in ruling the galaxy, so they'll just ball up at one end, point themselves at the next galaxy and woosh off they go. The C'tan meanwhile simply slumber and wait for the galaxy to re-populate... except this time they leave a vanguard of active necrons to keep an eye on things and make sure that nothing dodgy happens this time.*

*This is assuming of course that the C'tan fail to complete their Great Work. If the Warp is successfully curtained from this galaxy then it's good bye Chaos, good bye Imperium, good bye Eldar and good bye Ork Waaagh. Anything even remotely psychic is suddenly diminished. This would also cause the Tyranids to divert away from this galaxy, as within the sphere of the Great Work their Hive Mind does not function.



I see a lot of "Imperium of Man is going to win because it breeds, adapts, can make use of resources etc", but frankly the Tyranids do exactly the same... but better. They breed faster than the Imperium of Man. They adapt every aspect of their existence to better kill their prey. They don't need to rely on the resources of a planet because they strip the resources bare and take the whole damn lot with them (or send it somewhere else - there's a great bit of the Tyrannoforming fluff which mentions how the IoM has no clue what the Tyranids are doing with all the spare biomass/matter/water/minerals).

Aside from the Tyranids and Necrons, the only other race that has a realistic chance at survival in any meaningful sense are the Orks - they'll struggle on worlds that are nothing but airless, water-less bedrock but hey, if nothing else they'll be the last race to go.



Don't get me wrong - the IoM puts up an extremely good fight, but I'm afraid it just can't cut it in the long run against the galaxycrushing power of the super-races GW have created.

Orks do not control the most planets Humans do. By a wide margin at that. Orks are not the dominant race in 40K they are the most numerous. Humans are the dominant power in the Galaxy.... Till they get eaten by 'nids.


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Xyptc wrote:

HiveMind J wrote:The nids would probably eat most things BUT they would move on once the biomass was gone. necrons would be the only things left caus not even nids can eat metal. the necrons would then close the warp gates so bye bye chaos. problem solved.

Nids win, move on, leaving necrons to rule the galaxy

I'm going to side with this one. The Necrons put up an excellent fight against the Tyranids, but given the chaotic (lolpun) state of the galaxy at the moment I wouldn't be at all surprised if the C'tan simply pull their forces back (or even subtly help) as the Tyranids scour everything from one end of the galaxy to another. The Tyranids aren't interested in ruling the galaxy, so they'll just ball up at one end, point themselves at the next galaxy and woosh off they go. The C'tan meanwhile simply slumber and wait for the galaxy to re-populate... except this time they leave a vanguard of active necrons to keep an eye on things and make sure that nothing dodgy happens this time.*

*This is assuming of course that the C'tan fail to complete their Great Work. If the Warp is successfully curtained from this galaxy then it's good bye Chaos, good bye Imperium, good bye Eldar and good bye Ork Waaagh. Anything even remotely psychic is suddenly diminished. This would also cause the Tyranids to divert away from this galaxy, as within the sphere of the Great Work their Hive Mind does not function.



I see a lot of "Imperium of Man is going to win because it breeds, adapts, can make use of resources etc", but frankly the Tyranids do exactly the same... but better. They breed faster than the Imperium of Man. They adapt every aspect of their existence to better kill their prey. They don't need to rely on the resources of a planet because they strip the resources bare and take the whole damn lot with them (or send it somewhere else - there's a great bit of the Tyrannoforming fluff which mentions how the IoM has no clue what the Tyranids are doing with all the spare biomass/matter/water/minerals).

Aside from the Tyranids and Necrons, the only other race that has a realistic chance at survival in any meaningful sense are the Orks - they'll struggle on worlds that are nothing but airless, water-less bedrock but hey, if nothing else they'll be the last race to go.



Don't get me wrong - the IoM puts up an extremely good fight, but I'm afraid it just can't cut it in the long run against the galaxycrushing power of the super-races GW have created.

Tyranid traditionally avoid Necron planets. The two just have no interest in fighting each other. Tyranid want to eat the galaxy and Necrons want to let them.

Chaos, Dark Eldar and Necrons have the ability to hide and sit it out whilst the Nids overwhelm and eat everything else. Once everything else is eaten, the Tyranids would move on to the next galaxy.

Thats what I imagine would happen.

I have to say that the Necrons are going to be the last remaining race. Void Dragon will wake up and have earth for a snack, whole imperium will begin infighting and on the defensive from one another and tyranids and Ork invasion. Necrons will awaken to monitor the battles but not interfere. They have slept for mellinia, they will continue. They are here because the C'tan get hungry and use them to harvest life. When the life starts to run out, the Necrons and the Ctan go to sleep. Good 'ol Ghaz has that unique knack of unifying orks. With the untold number of orks that are produced during such tumoltious times as the 40k universe it stands to reason that whatever genetic abnormality or circumstances that Ghaz came to be will happen again, Waagh of death. Making the Orks a nigh unstoppable force. I could see the Necrons possibly assisting, not allying mind you, but assisting the Orks, because their god is hungry and orks are life they can eat. They multiply so rapidly and constantly fight and segment themselves for destruction. It would be a simple matter of Necrons behind the scenes helping orks, oops I left this awesome tech on a planet with Ghaz and now his Waagh is super powered, reproduces extroardinarily and has extra killy power. Then Ctan comes along after unified orks wipe out the rest of the life in the galaxy and buffet de ork. Life is extinguished again by the C'tan and Necrons are all that remain. Nite nite time until that one ork that got left on that one planet on purpose reproduces, new races repopulate the rest of the universe and the C'tan get hungry again.

Got to give it to the Greenskins.

Just a few pesky spores left over from anything short of total eradication and you have a a big green problem on your hands ... again ... and again ....

Voted CSM, Orks and 'Crons.

CSM can just hide in the eye of terror until the imperium is almost collapsed, then corrupt what's left of the empire (which failed it's leadership test by now) and bring them together. After the Emperor Fails humanity, they'll turn to the one thing that can save them: CHAOS

Orks because they necrons have trouble with them, and they're basically just win-sauce and impossible to eradicate completely.

Necrons because they're necrons and because they can teleport around and stuff.


Tyranids would probably be eradicated if everyone works together (It's 40k, anything's possible). Make a couple ships that specialize in taking down hive ships and everything's good.

eldar..HAHAHAHHA. Yeah right.

The imperium would be the first to fall, IMO. Or the eldar..Actually no. The tau would be wiped out by the imperium first.

I'm going to go with orks. it's impossible to kill them all or to destroy their industrial base (since they have none)

Orks and Tyranids fighting it out for the rest of eternity.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Voted CSM, Orks and 'Crons.

CSM can just hide in the eye of terror until the imperium is almost collapsed, then corrupt what's left of the empire (which failed it's leadership test by now) and bring them together. After the Emperor Fails humanity, they'll turn to the one thing that can save them: CHAOS

Orks because they necrons have trouble with them, and they're basically just win-sauce and impossible to eradicate completely.

Necrons because they're necrons and because they can teleport around and stuff.


Tyranids would probably be eradicated if everyone works together (It's 40k, anything's possible). Make a couple ships that specialize in taking down hive ships and everything's good.

eldar..HAHAHAHHA. Yeah right.

The imperium would be the first to fall, IMO. Or the eldar..Actually no. The tau would be wiped out by the imperium first.

You're right, after 10,000 years of righteous genocide and xenocide inflicted upon one-another everyones gonne grab hands and get all buddy-buddy

Yep.

Trilobite wrote:Orks and Tyranids fighting it out for the rest of eternity.

Sounds like a right laugh, from the Ork's perspective.


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Incidentally, I've been re-reading my Ork fluff recently and I'm even more convinced these boyz will be the ones to win it. Y'see, as I read it, ork infighting will only satisfy the greenskins for so long. As their population in a given area starts to reach a kind of critical mass, the probability of a powerful leader emerging and subjugating all of the other greenskins to his will becomes more and more likely. When this finally does happen, a Waaagh! is born and the boyz begin a sort of migratory killing spree in search of new territories or enemies. Now, what actually triggers a Waagh! can be heavily varied. Armageddon, for example, is the centre of a massive and brutal Waaagh! simply because various orks have heard of a big fight on the planet and wanted to join in. I'm not counting the ork warbands that followed Ghazghull there, incidentally. A similar situation has occurred with the Tau; after they tried to expand into the Charadon empire (I think?) they were pushed back and now are fighting for their survival because more and more orks are joining the assault.
Now, consider this. The recent appearance of the Nids in Ork-held space has triggered a small counter-ofensive, which I am informed is beginning to falter. However, if we apply the Armageddon theory to this situation, more and more ork empires will eventually hear of the fight, and join in. Soon, it's the Nids who are outmanned, and victory is won for the orks, though of course it would be costly. Now, once those same orks have figured out that the beasties they have fought were part of a much larger species (and they will; orks aren't as stupid as some people think) it' may well trigger a Waaagh! of massive proportions.

In addition to this (rather crude) theory, there is also evidence that the Orks are far more numerous a race than was initially thought. I believe the rulebook has a piece of fluff that states that, in the Imperium's youth, techpriests sent out a probe to find the centre of the universe. It still gives out signals, and most of them are orkish in origin. Though that may need checking, it could hint that the Orks are so numerous as a race that they have actually spread beyond the limits of the galaxy and are prospering in the wider universe.
Not massively sure about that, so someone should check it.

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:
Not true actually, Orks always grow throughout their lives, however they experience a faster rate of growth when exposed to fighting. Orks are an entirely self sustained from the moment spores grow, flawed only through what other races see them as. In an odd way they are the most perfect of all the races.

Perfect? They ruined their own command structure, orks have to rely upon inbreed information to use more than pointy sticks in a fight.
Their maximum tech level is therfore set. Their inability to organize the whole race also.
Now, I didn't say orks would not grow at all, but they would stay small if you deny them the fighting.
Hard to achieve, but consider this:
Orks are a artificial race. They were engineered as CC-troops of the old ones. Maybe there is a failsafe? No, not a simple switch,
but bio-engineered creatures may react to other things.
Does a spore always become a ork? NO? Maybe the environment has a influence. If so, research and reprogram spores to generate
Snotlings instead of orks.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Basically, we're all gonna get eaten.

Seems your point in this thread.
Have to disagree, as there is a clause in their codex so nids are not unbeatable.

Emperors Faithful wrote:
side note:
Terra's fall is extremely unlikely, even less likely than during the Horus Heresy. If word reached the rest of the Imperium that some sort of Waaagh or Hive Fleet was on the doorstep of the Cradle of Mankind the reaction would be unprecendent. Worlds would be conscripted, every Crusade or active warzone would be abandoned, even PDF would be pressed into service and sent on transports. No doubt almost EVERY sinlge Astartes Chapter would send a huge amount of their own forces. The Imperial Fleets would make full speed for the trouble zone, abandoning thier usual routes in their desperation to protect the beating heart of the Imperium. Sure, they would leave a lot of the Imperium utterly defenceless, but you would have to have smashed your way through a great part of the Imperium anyway to get this close. And when you did reach Terra, you would literally have to go through the greater portion of Mankind to get to the Emperor's Throne Room. I don't see it happening. Not from anybody.

QFT.

Plus GW already invented some sort of 'mini-astronomican' and if the signal of the astronomican is all that draws nids to terra we will see
GW switching the 'original' off and moving the fake into the next black hole. Bye bye nids........

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:

As said earlier Ghaz is an ork who sees the bigger picture, hes the Ork that wants to dominate the galaxy. If he were ever to ally himself with Wazdakka; who plans on creating a "Interstellar Warp Highway" you would have a WAAGH thats not only Coordinated, but could spring up just about ANYWHERE they wanted to. Orks are drawn to bigger battles, thats why Orks ally and create WAAGH's in the first place. Now imagine the promise that you could fight all the bestest 'oomies and good krumpin means you get to spit on their emperor? Terra would be totally boned if it ever came down to purely defending the emperor.

Big ghazzy fan?

Dunno the Emperor beat the mightiest ork waagh boss ever personally, so I think if the orks really follow the winner of such decisive fight,
big E is their actual leader.

The orks diminished significantly at the enslaver plague and against the C'tan before. Seems another 'unbeatable' contender isn't so hard
as you believe.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Tyranid traditionally avoid Necron planets. The two just have no interest in fighting each other. Tyranid want to eat the galaxy and Necrons want to let them.

Necron have no intend to allow Anyone to do as they please. The necrons obey to their C'tan overlords and the C'tan have no interest in a lifeless Galaxy. (I doubt the motives of the necrons/Ctan are revealed before they get their 2nd codex.)
Actually the C'tan want to harvest, and if the nids interfere with that, I can imagine lots of hive fleets annihilated in a very short period of time...

themrsleepy wrote:I have to say that the Necrons are going to be the last remaining race. Void Dragon will wake up and have earth for a snack, whole imperium will begin infighting and on the defensive from one another and tyranids and Ork invasion. Necrons will awaken to monitor the battles but not interfere. They have slept for mellinia, they will continue. They are here because the C'tan get hungry and use them to harvest life. When the life starts to run out, the Necrons and the Ctan go to sleep. Good 'ol Ghaz has that unique knack of unifying orks. With the untold number of orks that are produced during such tumoltious times as the 40k universe it stands to reason that whatever genetic abnormality or circumstances that Ghaz came to be will happen again, Waagh of death. Making the Orks a nigh unstoppable force. I could see the Necrons possibly assisting, not allying mind you, but assisting the Orks, because their god is hungry and orks are life they can eat. They multiply so rapidly and constantly fight and segment themselves for destruction. It would be a simple matter of Necrons behind the scenes helping orks, oops I left this awesome tech on a planet with Ghaz and now his Waagh is super powered, reproduces extroardinarily and has extra killy power. Then Ctan comes along after unified orks wipe out the rest of the life in the galaxy and buffet de ork. Life is extinguished again by the C'tan and Necrons are all that remain. Nite nite time until that one ork that got left on that one planet on purpose reproduces, new races repopulate the rest of the universe and the C'tan get hungry again.

Interesting how people 'know' of the void dragons location when it is just a hint and thus a 'could be' not a 'is'.
Again, the necron are not interested in a winner, unlikely to have them supporting the former minions of the old ones.
These Necrons may remember who the orks were ( and are to them, as millenia mean nothing in stasis ).

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In the end, all these important major races could wipe each other out/move on to new home so a single small unimportant race survives it
unnoticed and has a empty galaxy for them alone.

Though I am prone to agree with the Nid or Crons sentiment, I've have always thought it likely that more races in the galaxy will band together against the tyranid threat. I don't think its unreasonable to think that eventually (hopefully before the octavious orks get eaten) there will be a temporary ceasefire drawn between the imperium and many of its enemies. An alliance of necessity as it were
The eldar and tau are occupied as it is just staying alive, but the farseers certainly know the threat of the nids
Many orks are busy fighting the nids now, and leviathan would be in a heap of trouble if ghazzy decides to bring the pain
The chaos bands and perhaps even the chaos daemons would certainly be opposed to having their beloved galaxy reduced to a husk. I mean who would they corrupt/torture/harvest souls from?
Necrons are in the same boat as chaos. Crons could ride out the nids easily enough but the c'tan want sentient essence to consume so they need people alive too.
Dark eldar can dick around like always.
In all I think the nids would be contained
Then the void dragon and outsider wake up, bust out more world engines (maybe nightbringer ship?), destroy the tattered remains of the imperium and shut down the eye of terror.
Maybe

1hadhq wrote:

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:
Not true actually, Orks always grow throughout their lives, however they experience a faster rate of growth when exposed to fighting. Orks are an entirely self sustained from the moment spores grow, flawed only through what other races see them as. In an odd way they are the most perfect of all the races.

Perfect? They ruined their own command structure, orks have to rely upon inbreed information to use more than pointy sticks in a fight.
Their maximum tech level is therfore set. Their inability to organize the whole race also.
Now, I didn't say orks would not grow at all, but they would stay small if you deny them the fighting.
Hard to achieve, but consider this:
Orks are a artificial race. They were engineered as CC-troops of the old ones. Maybe there is a failsafe? No, not a simple switch,
but bio-engineered creatures may react to other things.
Does a spore always become a ork? NO? Maybe the environment has a influence. If so, research and reprogram spores to generate
Snotlings instead of orks.

Actually, that bit about their tech level being set is not true. Big meks are constantly experimenting with both other races' technology and inventions of their own (the Deffkopta is an excellent example of this) and as such the ork tech level is constantly increasing as they come into contact with new races. To assume they are incapable of organising themselves is also not true; given a common foe, the orks will generally choose to fight it rather than each other, as the instinctive hatred of anything not green takes hold.
Also, the idea of reprogramming orks is completely impractical and also doomed to failure. Almost all current life was created by the Old Ones, including the Orks; they are not unique in this respect. Therefore to assume they have a failsafe where other races don't is illogical.
Finally, whether a spore turns into an Ork or not depends heavily on whether there are other greenskin spores nearby. this is why Armageddon had massive ork infestations after the second war for Armageddon, even when the invading Orks had left. Just a bit of info I thought you might like.

So, if all the races were created by the old ones.... maybe they all have failsafes, and the survivor is the one that figures out the failsafe off switch and blackmails the other races into killing the tyranids and crons unabashadly or watch their whole race be destroyed.


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Or tyranids eat enough orks to become able to hive mind them into submission and tryanorks kill all...

themrsleepy wrote:So, if all the races were created by the old ones.... maybe they all have failsafes, and the survivor is the one that figures out the failsafe off switch and blackmails the other races into killing the tyranids and crons unabashadly or watch their whole race be destroyed.


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Or tyranids eat enough orks to become able to hive mind them into submission and tryanorks kill all...

Can't see it happening, sorry. Not that you're wrong, it's just there is no evidence for it. Maybe the next 'cron codex will support your theories, though.

If everyone wants to talk about orks uniting and the c'tan coming back can we introduce the theory of the emperor, most beloved of all, returning? Because if he does its over for any other race out there. The necrons cant handle him, from the theory i understand it was the emperor that placed the viod dragon on mars in the first place. We have seen what he can do to a very large ork empire in the stories in Horus rising. Nids... please. Any one recall maccragge? and that was a fresh fleet taken out by the ultra marines and the imperial navy. Not to mention how one company and a titan legion held back the invasion on planet side. Eldar suck, Tau suck, Chaos is a problem but with the emperors return they would also fall. (imagine the wrath you would have after having to sit on a toilet for 10k years because of some spoiled cry baby you should of dropped in the first place) Distract the dark eldar with a blow up doll and you have them covered. Or you can consider their lack of numbers slowly getting to them.
If this isnt good enough for you just put every space wolf on a thunder wolf mount and give him a thunder hammer and let him go to town

Chosen Praetorian wrote:If everyone wants to talk about orks uniting and the c'tan coming back can we introduce the theory of the emperor, most beloved of all, returning? Because if he does its over for any other race out there. The necrons cant handle him, from the theory i understand it was the emperor that placed the viod dragon on mars in the first place. We have seen what he can do to a very large ork empire in the stories in Horus rising. Nids... please. Any one recall maccragge? and that was a fresh fleet taken out by the ultra marines and the imperial navy. Not to mention how one company and a titan legion held back the invasion on planet side. Eldar suck, Tau suck, Chaos is a problem but with the emperors return they would also fall. (imagine the wrath you would have after having to sit on a toilet for 10k years because of some spoiled cry baby you should of dropped in the first place) Distract the dark eldar with a blow up doll and you have them covered. Or you can consider their lack of numbers slowly getting to them.
If this isnt good enough for you just put every space wolf on a thunder wolf mount and give him a thunder hammer and let him go to town

Behemoth was the smallest of the big 3 hive fleets. If our information is right, then the tyranids have a lot more than the few we have seen.
The tyranids can't lose. Like orks, if there's just a few of them, they can come back. Look at IA 4 and the Octavian War. Also, according to recent fluff, the tyranids are not warp-based, they are instead relying on the mental power of the hive-mind.

Nids really aren't that scary compared to how some of the other races could be, they are just the most scary now.

When the necrons wake up again there will be milllions of them, and they can't every die. It's almost impossible to attack them on your terms and they will target you weakpoints. If the do tyranids run out of food in this galaxy they it's unlikely the necrons will just let them go. The C'tan would have a huge source of food in one place, and the nids major strength would be gone. The best they do would be to recycle which would reduce losses but it wouldn't be enough.

Without the imperium (which will eventually fall to the tyranids) the orks will have as much room as they need. Orks major problem is that they fight each other, however the old ones did very well making the perfect weapon. The bigger force they face the less they fight each other. A Battle with the tyranids is going to drawn billions of orks. The harder the tyranids fight the more the faster the orks will come. Yes the tyranids will take planets but they won't be able to sustain it. Eventually the losses will overtake the biomass gain. An planet infested with orks won't be a very good meal, it will have been stripped and turned into a wasteland.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

Actually, that bit about their tech level being set is not true. Big meks are constantly experimenting with both other races' technology and inventions of their own (the Deffkopta is an excellent example of this) and as such the ork tech level is constantly increasing as they come into contact with new races. To assume they are incapable of organising themselves is also not true; given a common foe, the orks will generally choose to fight it rather than each other, as the instinctive hatred of anything not green takes hold.
Also, the idea of reprogramming orks is completely impractical and also doomed to failure. Almost all current life was created by the Old Ones, including the Orks; they are not unique in this respect. Therefore to assume they have a failsafe where other races don't is illogical.
Finally, whether a spore turns into an Ork or not depends heavily on whether there are other greenskin spores nearby. this is why Armageddon had massive ork infestations after the second war for Armageddon, even when the invading Orks had left. Just a bit of info I thought you might like.

I do like info.

Just the impression ork fluff gave was orks 'gain access to hidden inbred knowlegde', not really inventing something 'new'.
Orks may gather in a group of flexible size and choose to ignore the other greenskin to assail the non-greenskin, but really they are not going to keep to it .
Orks would leave if they feel to find a better fight in another group. It was to general to call it lack of organization. Seems too much chaos than order to me, so I choose to
see it as disorganised.

Why should it be impossible to reprogram a arftificial race whose knowledge isn't learned but inbred? Would they really pay attention to a change?

Spores.
Spores act alone, but alter their aim if more spores are around? How do they interact?
If there is any communication, this can be exploited and corrupted/changed.

Think about ti this way:


A Big Mek saw a Titan once.

He decided HE wanted one of those.

So he made one.

Thus Stompas and other Ork titans were born, quickly spreading throughout the galaxy anywhere they were needed.

A Big Mek decided he wanted to ensure his boyz got into combat in a boarding action. So he created the galaxy's most powerful force fields-- just the right kind for ramming and boarding. Also useful for orbital insertion, too, and even with a smaller version for the boyz on the ground.

Tractor beams? Yep. Teleporters? Yep. Gravity machines that can pick enemy vehicles up from a distance and toss them about? Yep.

Ork technology comes in leaps and bounds, and the galaxy shudders to think of what they will invent next.

Spores are released in groups by orks throughout their life cycle. As a result, they tend to end up in the same area, and thus develop into greenskin life. That help?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, meks are programmed with the basic knowledge of engineering and physics, not specific designs. They learn to build things in the same way as humans do, just a lot quicker due to this.

I think the orcs are nothing but more biomass for the nids to devour in their pursuit to purge the galaxy of life.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Spores are released in groups by orks throughout their life cycle. As a result, they tend to end up in the same area, and thus develop into greenskin life. That help?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, meks are programmed with the basic knowledge of engineering and physics, not specific designs. They learn to build things in the same way as humans do, just a lot quicker due to this.

Yep. Humans have to go to college to learn what Orks know by instinct.

Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:I think the orcs are nothing but more biomass for the nids to devour in their pursuit to purge the galaxy of life.

I'm sure you do, but 40k doesn't have Orcs.

Hmm, all this orky talk makes me want to go smash some of them "big 'umies" in dowii

Considering both Eldar endgame plans (Rhana Dandra and Ynnead) involve their race being killed wholesale, I can't imagine why anyone would vote for them.

Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:I think the orcs are nothing but more biomass for the nids to devour in their pursuit to purge the galaxy of life.

Melissia wrote:I'm sure you do, but 40k doesn't have Orcs.

wow what a snappy comeback for a spelling error.

Technically there will be 2 races standing not one, the tyranids will wipe everything off the galaxy and move on towards another galaxy (they will avoid dead worlds), the necrons will go back to sleep to repeat the cycle, so 2 races not one.

(and chaos dies because all psychic races are wiped off the galaxy)

I wouldn't call 200 worlds out of a galaxy of millions all that meaningful. It's less then cutting off a toe to avoind gangrene.

Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:

Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:I think the orcs are nothing but more biomass for the nids to devour in their pursuit to purge the galaxy of life.

Melissia wrote:I'm sure you do, but 40k doesn't have Orcs.

wow what a snappy comeback for a spelling error.

You had the spelling error first stud, Orcs are fantasty, Orks are 40k.

The Imperium, for I am not a heretic!

I feel the Tyranids are over-hyped. They're going to spend the bulk of their strength on the Imperium and Terra's defenses as they follow the astro-whatchamacalit beacon. Biomass recovery? Space battles brother.

And being able to eat your enemy? Only good for after you kill him, if he lets you. I like the Imperium's chances one on one versus the Nids. Exterminatus here we come!

No one.

Every race has a hypothetical auto win scenario, however, they are just that. Hypothetical. Orks will never unify as a single warband, Necrons will never harvest everyone (a true farmer never would anyway), the Imperium can't focus enough on a single goal (much like the Orks I suppose), Eldar(including DE) are focusing on surviving, Tyranids aren't eating everyone fast enough, Tau, Chaos wouldn't exist without everyone else.

Nids for the galaxy, Orks for da ooniverse.

Funnily enough everyone is saying that it comes down to Tyranids or Necrons. Yet neither of these races stick around at the end, even if they 'Win'. Nids bugger off to another Galaxy and Necrons go back to sleep. Neither race is left standing with the galaxy in their hands. I can easily see the remnant humans and orks fighting for the scraps as the two superpowers leave.

And, apart from deamonic infestation, there's little to suggest that the Dark Eldar won't be sitting back and laughing at the whole thing.

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:

Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:

Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:I think the orcs are nothing but more biomass for the nids to devour in their pursuit to purge the galaxy of life.

Melissia wrote:I'm sure you do, but 40k doesn't have Orcs.

wow what a snappy comeback for a spelling error.

You had the spelling error first stud, Orcs are fantasty, Orks are 40k.

And Orks are MUCH more awesome than Orcs.

Now, GOBLINS are the awesomeness of WFB. Mmm, spider riders...

Anyway, yeah. As long as you're pushing an end-game scenario, it's difficult for Orks to lose. Just about any end game scenario involves a huge amount of fighting all across the galaxy.

Just the kind of thing necessary to unite the Orks, because the only thing better than fighting another Ork is fighting a non-Ork.

4M2A wrote:
When the necrons wake up again there will be milllions of them, and they can't every die.

Conversion Beamer = dead necron that won't be coming back due to his body being instantly converted into energy. 'nuff said

Golden Sabres wrote:

4M2A wrote:
When the necrons wake up again there will be milllions of them, and they can't every die.

Conversion Beamer = dead necron that won't be coming back due to his body being instantly converted into energy. 'nuff said

Resurrection Orb. A titan can step on a Necron but if one of those orbs are around he's still getting right back up.

Imperium somehow. THEY WILL PULL THROUGH!

Azure wrote:Resurrection Orb. A titan can step on a Necron but if one of those orbs are around he's still getting right back up.

Stepping on a necron might destroy its shape, but it'd keep its composition.

A conversion beamer changes its substance (it literally converts mass into energy), therefor making it impossible for the Resurrection Orb to work.

necrons would get to the emperor first having a c'tan right next to him (mars)

Melissia wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Spores are released in groups by orks throughout their life cycle. As a result, they tend to end up in the same area, and thus develop into greenskin life. That help?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, meks are programmed with the basic knowledge of engineering and physics, not specific designs. They learn to build things in the same way as humans do, just a lot quicker due to this.

Yep. Humans have to go to college to learn what Orks know by instinct.

Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:I think the orcs are nothing but more biomass for the nids to devour in their pursuit to purge the galaxy of life.

I'm sure you do, but 40k doesn't have Orcs.

lolz


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:Imperium somehow. THEY WILL PULL THROUGH!

doubt



doubt




doubt




doubt


because humans definitely will live longer than
a. nids. nuff said.

b. gian tgreen humanoids that when onne dies 5 more grow from the spores

c.metal skeletons that when they die, get up again, led by gods that could destroy terra by farting at it

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:Imperium somehow. THEY WILL PULL THROUGH!

I admire your loyalty.

Melissia wrote:

Azure wrote:Resurrection Orb. A titan can step on a Necron but if one of those orbs are around he's still getting right back up.

Stepping on a necron might destroy its shape, but it'd keep its composition.

A conversion beamer changes its substance (it literally converts mass into energy), therefor making it impossible for the Resurrection Orb to work.

There's also the little issue that every time a Necron is 'killed' it comes back slightly more slowed.

stompydakka wrote:
a. nids. nuff said.

Only real threat to humanity (and everything else) once you think about it, but their true numbers are little more than rumours and conjecture.

b. gian tgreen humanoids that when onne dies 5 more grow from the spores

Mankind has been fighting, and winning, against Orks for the better part of its existence. I'm sure they'll do fine.

c.metal skeletons that when they die, get up again, led by gods that could destroy terra by farting at it

Their Gods are weak, nothing like the Legends of old. It will be a while before they get their power levels back up.

Scrabb wrote:I feel the Tyranids are over-hyped. They're going to spend the bulk of their strength on the Imperium and Terra's defenses as they follow the astro-whatchamacalit beacon. Biomass recovery? Space battles brother.

And being able to eat your enemy? Only good for after you kill him, if he lets you. I like the Imperium's chances one on one versus the Nids. Exterminatus here we come!

The Tyranids are a space-dwelling race by nature. Logically, they are going to be more than capable of reclaiming biomass in space if they can do it in what is, to them at least, an alien environment to the degree that they do.

Also consider that the Tyranids aren't only looking for worlds populated by humans/Orks/Eldar etc. Any world with organic matter is good, and heck worlds that are rich in suitable minerals are prime targets to. The IoM can exterminatus the heck out of the worlds the Tyranids are fighting them on all they like - all the Tyranids have to do is consume a few worlds that the IoM isn't on and their strength is restored, and that's an easy enough task given how it's almost impossible to see what they are doing under the Shadow. Kryptman's "biomass denial" strategy was terribly flawed. The IoM will back itself into a corner long before the Tyranids run out of worlds to consume.

I think Necrons. Them and Nids are the only ones with a chance.

Xyptc wrote:
The Tyranids are a space-dwelling race by nature. Logically, they are going to be more than capable of reclaiming biomass in space if they can do it in what is, to them at least, an alien environment to the degree that they do.

Also consider that the Tyranids aren't only looking for worlds populated by humans/Orks/Eldar etc. Any world with organic matter is good, and heck worlds that are rich in suitable minerals are prime targets to. The IoM can exterminatus the heck out of the worlds the Tyranids are fighting them on all they like - all the Tyranids have to do is consume a few worlds that the IoM isn't on and their strength is restored, and that's an easy enough task given how it's almost impossible to see what they are doing under the Shadow. Kryptman's "biomass denial" strategy was terribly flawed. The IoM will back itself into a corner long before the Tyranids run out of worlds to consume.

200 worlds, while a terrible toll, is a drop in the ocean compared to 1 million. There is also the issue of whether Tyranids get hungry while they travel in space. You'd need vast reserves of resources or energy to make the slow trip between galaxies, probably resorting to cannibalism at points. How do we know that the Tyranid horde isn't "running on empty"?

Xyptc wrote:

The Tyranids are a space-dwelling race by nature. Logically, they are going to be more than capable of reclaiming biomass in space if they can do it in what is, to them at least, an alien environment to the degree that they do.

Oh, yeah. What I meant when I mentioned space battles as a bad thing for Tyranids is that any fleet they face will (IMHO) slarg more biomass from the tyranid fleet than they give up even if beaten in the end. Meaning that they have few returns in the largest scale battles.

Xyptc wrote:Also consider that the Tyranids aren't only looking for worlds populated by humans/Orks/Eldar etc. Any world with organic matter is good, and heck worlds that are rich in suitable minerals are prime targets to.

Sure, but once they penetrate the Imperium's perimeter EVERYTHING of worth is going to have been pre-colonized by man for 30,000+ years. At the very least their fleets are going to be running disruption.

Xyptc wrote:The IoM can exterminatus the heck out of the worlds the Tyranids are fighting them on all they like - all the Tyranids have to do is consume a few worlds that the IoM isn't on and their strength is restored, and that's an easy enough task given how it's almost impossible to see what they are doing under the Shadow. Kryptman's "biomass denial" strategy was terribly flawed. The IoM will back itself into a corner long before the Tyranids run out of worlds to consume.

I dunno about that Kryptman fellow either.

While the shadow is a powerful weapon for the Tyranids it's equally useful for the Imperium as a marker for their location. You don't really have to guess what a tyranid fleet is gonna do. Eat. Hunt. Eat hunt eat hunt. EAT.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Xyptc wrote:
The Tyranids are a space-dwelling race by nature. Logically, they are going to be more than capable of reclaiming biomass in space if they can do it in what is, to them at least, an alien environment to the degree that they do.

Also consider that the Tyranids aren't only looking for worlds populated by humans/Orks/Eldar etc. Any world with organic matter is good, and heck worlds that are rich in suitable minerals are prime targets to. The IoM can exterminatus the heck out of the worlds the Tyranids are fighting them on all they like - all the Tyranids have to do is consume a few worlds that the IoM isn't on and their strength is restored, and that's an easy enough task given how it's almost impossible to see what they are doing under the Shadow. Kryptman's "biomass denial" strategy was terribly flawed. The IoM will back itself into a corner long before the Tyranids run out of worlds to consume.

200 worlds, while a terrible toll, is a drop in the ocean compared to 1 million. There is also the issue of whether Tyranids get hungry while they travel in space. You'd need vast reserves of resources or energy to make the slow trip between galaxies, probably resorting to cannibalism at points. How do we know that the Tyranid horde isn't "running on empty"?

The bio-ships wouldn't use up extensive amounts of energy on the trip between galaxies if they went into some sort of hibernation

Retribution wrote:
The bio-ships wouldn't use up extensive amounts of energy on the trip between galaxies if they went into some sort of hibernation

Even allowing for that fact, you still burn energy while you sleep. Travelling between galaxies in the cold void of space, especially without any sort of warp travel, would make it very likely that only a fraction of the Tyranid fleet that left their old galaxy has made it to the edges of the Milky Way, with the rest likely being cannibalized by the survivors.

Eldar, because we've been dieing for how long now and still around ;P

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Retribution wrote:
The bio-ships wouldn't use up extensive amounts of energy on the trip between galaxies if they went into some sort of hibernation

Even allowing for that fact, you still burn energy while you sleep. Travelling between galaxies in the cold void of space, especially without any sort of warp travel, would make it very likely that only a fraction of the Tyranid fleet that left their old galaxy has made it to the edges of the Milky Way, with the rest likely being cannibalized by the survivors.

True enough, but everything in the fluff supports the notion that we have only seen a fraction of a fraction of the entire tyranid threat

Tottaly overdone, this, but whatever happens, 'Crons are still around, so yeah... even if they decide to just go "Oh, screw this, imma taking another nap", they are no weaker for trying.

That said, I'm gunna have to go with the HUMANITY F*** YEAH! group. Just beacuse.

Retribution wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Retribution wrote:
The bio-ships wouldn't use up extensive amounts of energy on the trip between galaxies if they went into some sort of hibernation

Even allowing for that fact, you still burn energy while you sleep. Travelling between galaxies in the cold void of space, especially without any sort of warp travel, would make it very likely that only a fraction of the Tyranid fleet that left their old galaxy has made it to the edges of the Milky Way, with the rest likely being cannibalized by the survivors.

True enough, but everything in the fluff supports the notion that we have only seen a fraction of a fraction of the entire tyranid threat

But it's never been confirmed. For all we know, they could have been ran ragged by the immortal St Macharius and his loyal cadre of void-whale riding cowboys, and are fleeing with the beligured remenents of their refugee fleet, full of civillians.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Retribution wrote:
The bio-ships wouldn't use up extensive amounts of energy on the trip between galaxies if they went into some sort of hibernation

Even allowing for that fact, you still burn energy while you sleep. Travelling between galaxies in the cold void of space, especially without any sort of warp travel, would make it very likely that only a fraction of the Tyranid fleet that left their old galaxy has made it to the edges of the Milky Way, with the rest likely being cannibalized by the survivors.

Dude, if hive fleets are capable of travelling between GALAXYS without using the warp and still be up for a good fight, then Im pretty sure there isnt any worry about them burning out of energy in between planets.

*Imperial Scientis looks at Conversion beamer*
I wonder if I can somehow put that on a ship...

After the weapon is created, tyranids suddenly lose tremendoues amounts of biomass... if only.

Trilobite wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Retribution wrote:
The bio-ships wouldn't use up extensive amounts of energy on the trip between galaxies if they went into some sort of hibernation

Even allowing for that fact, you still burn energy while you sleep. Travelling between galaxies in the cold void of space, especially without any sort of warp travel, would make it very likely that only a fraction of the Tyranid fleet that left their old galaxy has made it to the edges of the Milky Way, with the rest likely being cannibalized by the survivors.

Dude, if hive fleets are capable of travelling between GALAXYS without using the warp and still be up for a good fight, then Im pretty sure there isnt any worry about them burning out of energy in between planets.

That's the thing, we don't know how many Tyranids are left or if the Tyranid race is on the brink of starvation. Holding them off for maybe even 500-1000 years could be pivotal.

Golden Sabres wrote:*Imperial Scientis looks at Conversion beamer*
I wonder if I can somehow put that on a ship...

After the weapon is created, tyranids suddenly lose tremendoues amounts of biomass... if only.

Most likely he would be executed for thinking heretical thoughts and threatening the sanctity of the Imperium's technology. THEN they'd put it on a ship.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Golden Sabres wrote:*Imperial Scientis looks at Conversion beamer*
I wonder if I can somehow put that on a ship...

After the weapon is created, tyranids suddenly lose tremendoues amounts of biomass... if only.

Most likely he would be executed for thinking heretical thoughts and threatening the sanctity of the Imperium's technology. THEN they'd put it on a ship.

Hmmm, I forgot about that part. Maybe the Adeptus Mechanicus will look extra hard for an STC of one then.

Even if the necrons do get damaged to the point they can't heal or are killed so many times they become useless they is no reason to think the C'tan can't just make some more, there are lots of races out there that would love "imortality". From what we have seen of their powers they could make a huge difference to who controls the galaxy.

How are the nids going to deal with the C'tan. It's very (very) unlikely they could create a creature capable which is capable of tearing a hole between the real world and the warp. While they are still alive the C'tan can just keep destroying any world that the Tyranids land on.

4M2A wrote:Even if the necrons do get damaged to the point they can't heal or are killed so many times they become useless they is no reason to think the C'tan can't just make some more, there are lots of races out there that would love "imortality".

Aye, that be true. But they won't be Necrons then. The Necrons are the souls of the Necrontyr and if they are completely destroyed, so will their souls. Sure, the C'tan can find new servants, but eventually every Necron will die in a war of Attrition. (And then the race will be called pariahs lol)

For the purposes of who won they will still be the necrons. Even if the imperium starts using mutants of hiring aliens it would still be the IoM.

There are still plenty of ways the necrons would die, so there are always options.

EDIT: Wait a minute, I just noticed that every single race has a scenario where they die, funny that huh?

Golden Sabres wrote:There are still plenty of ways the necrons would die, so there are always options.

EDIT: Wait a minute, I just noticed that every single race has a scenario where they die, funny that huh?

Welcome to the GRIMDARK far future.

sniperjolly wrote:Tottaly overdone, this, but whatever happens, 'Crons are still around, so yeah... even if they decide to just go "Oh, screw this, imma taking another nap", they are no weaker for trying.

Actually, yes, they would be.

In fact, the NIghtbringer was nearly killed by Ultramarines because he had just woken up and was starving, and therefor weakened.

It was only the Marines' stupidity in deciding their lives were more valuable than destroying the C'tan stargod that allowed him to not be trapped in the cave where he is and starve to death.

Melissia wrote:

sniperjolly wrote:Tottaly overdone, this, but whatever happens, 'Crons are still around, so yeah... even if they decide to just go "Oh, screw this, imma taking another nap", they are no weaker for trying.

Actually, yes, they would be.

In fact, the NIghtbringer was nearly killed by Ultramarines because he had just woken up and was starving, and therefor weakened.

It was only the Marines' stupidity in deciding their lives were more valuable than destroying the C'tan stargod that allowed him to not be trapped in the cave where he is and starve to death.

This is true.
In addition, the last time the Necrons were dominant over the galaxy, they had thousands of C'tan to aid them. Now there's only 4. Just sayin' is all.

Just two as far as we know. The Ousider hasn't been revealed yet, and the Void Dragon was defeated by the Emperor and imprisoned under the surface of Mars in the Noctis Labyrinth.

Which means that, over time, the Void Dragon (as long as the Mechanicum doesn't do anything stupid) will starve to death as well. But then, it's semi-obvious that the Mechanicum is going to do something stupid.

I think it would be reasonable (given the subplot of that rogue techpriest who found out about the Void Dragon) that there may be another possible civil war brewing on Mars.

What about the theory that the void-dragon is slowly draining the life-force of all those tech-priests with tech-bits?

It could be, but more likely they're losing their humanity and "life force" simply because they're more machine than human.

Melissia wrote:

sniperjolly wrote:Tottaly overdone, this, but whatever happens, 'Crons are still around, so yeah... even if they decide to just go "Oh, screw this, imma taking another nap", they are no weaker for trying.

Actually, yes, they would be.

In fact, the NIghtbringer was nearly killed by Ultramarines because he had just woken up and was starving, and therefor weakened.

It was only the Marines' stupidity in deciding their lives were more valuable than destroying the C'tan stargod that allowed him to not be trapped in the cave where he is and starve to death.

That made me

YOUR A SPACE MARINE. YOU HAD A CHANCE TO KILL A GOD AND YOU BLEW IT. UGH. Go to your statis chamber and think about what you've done.

the imperium, but eventually the chaos gods would triumph over the course of millions of years.

Lokirfellheart wrote:the imperium, but eventually the chaos gods would triumph over the course of millions of years.

Just as planned......

Black Corsair wrote:

Lokirfellheart wrote:the imperium, but eventually the chaos gods would triumph over the course of millions of years.

Just as planned......

Wouldnt Tzeentch change the plans at the last second so that wouldnt happen?

Toxik wrote:Technically there will be 2 races standing not one, the tyranids will wipe everything off the galaxy and move on towards another galaxy (they will avoid dead worlds), the necrons will go back to sleep to repeat the cycle, so 2 races not one.

(and chaos dies because all psychic races are wiped off the galaxy)

But then the Tyranid leave and eat the next galaxy. That's the thing Tyranid go around eating galaxies like humans eat bacon. None of the others can even eat one galaxy.

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:

Black Corsair wrote:

Lokirfellheart wrote:the imperium, but eventually the chaos gods would triumph over the course of millions of years.

Just as planned......

Wouldnt Tzeentch change the plans at the last second so that wouldnt happen?

you know anything more twisted than The Changer's mind???

Black Corsair wrote:

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:

Black Corsair wrote:

Lokirfellheart wrote:the imperium, but eventually the chaos gods would triumph over the course of millions of years.

Just as planned......

Wouldnt Tzeentch change the plans at the last second so that wouldnt happen?

you know anything more twisted than The Changer's mind???

Several snarled-up slinkys?

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:

Melissia wrote:

sniperjolly wrote:Tottaly overdone, this, but whatever happens, 'Crons are still around, so yeah... even if they decide to just go "Oh, screw this, imma taking another nap", they are no weaker for trying.

Actually, yes, they would be.

In fact, the NIghtbringer was nearly killed by Ultramarines because he had just woken up and was starving, and therefor weakened.

It was only the Marines' stupidity in deciding their lives were more valuable than destroying the C'tan stargod that allowed him to not be trapped in the cave where he is and starve to death.

That made me

YOUR A SPACE MARINE. YOU HAD A CHANCE TO KILL A GOD AND YOU BLEW IT. UGH. Go to your statis chamber and think about what you've done.

Yeah, same here.

You're a fething WARRIOR. Is there really a better way for a warrior to go out than to kill a GOD? I cannot think of one.

You still have to consider the Imperium has the largest unified fighting force (Imperial Guard) in the galaxy. And that doesn't even include the Space Marines, The Imperial Navy, The Inquisition and its militant groups. (Sisters, Grey Knights, ect.)

The Tyranids and the Orks are probably both more numerous than the empire.

Trilobite wrote:The Tyranids and the Orks are probably both more numerous than the empire.

Yes they are but they aren't a unified force. We know the hive fleets fight each other to absorb the weaker ones bio mass(and possibly for other reasons) and orks fight each other all the time.
Imperial Guard being the largest unified fighting force in the galaxy is a direct line from the Guard codex

where are you getting that hive fleets fight amongst each other? The hive mind is one entity, the tendrils just extensions of it's will. If you punch someone with your right hand, and then go to hit them with your left, your right dosent try to attack or stop your left, does it. They fight together. just as the hive fleets will. The fluff is in the codex, no race in the 40k universe comes close to being as single minded in their intent as the Tyranids.

Trilobite wrote:where are you getting that hive fleets fight amongst each other? The hive mind is one entity, the tendrils just extensions of it's will. If you punch someone with your right hand, and then go to hit them with your left, your right dosent try to attack or stop your left, does it. They fight together. just as the hive fleets will. The fluff is in the codex, no race in the 40k universe comes close to being as single minded in their intent as the Tyranids.

I didnt say they werent one mind. I said that the hive fleets will fight each other and the winner will absorb the others bio mass. They do this to weed out the weaker one. And the IG being the most numerous unified force is a direct quote.

If it was needed, the smaller splinters would probably give themselves up for absorption into the greater mass, therefore not really losing any precious biomass.

Trilobite wrote:If it was needed, the smaller splinters would probably give themselves up for absorption into the greater mass, therefore not really losing any precious biomass.

Sigh... I didnt say it was needed. It's recycling. They're taking the weaker of the two and having the superior fleet absorb the bio mass and turn it into nids that suck less. Kinda like natural selection

I'm pretty sure they fight eachother to gain more favour with the hive mind. The hive mind is one entity, yes, but the tendrils are like it's cells. (bad example but I dun care)
They do fight eachother. And no, they don't give themselves up, they would fight to the death. Even if they fight, they lose biomass, leftover biomass would be absorbed regardless.

Golden Sabres wrote:I'm pretty sure they fight eachother to gain more favour with the hive mind. The hive mind is one entity, yes, but the tendrils are like it's cells. (bad example but I dun care)
They do fight eachother. And no, they don't give themselves up, they would fight to the death. Even if they fight, they don't lose any biomass anyways, it would all be absorbed regardless.

Thank you for reading. I would also have to say them fighting to gain favor is a good concept. From what i understand the hive mind exists in the warp so im curious if its just another warp entity that made a species in its image to fight in the real universe?

Chosen Praetorian wrote:

Golden Sabres wrote:I'm pretty sure they fight eachother to gain more favour with the hive mind. The hive mind is one entity, yes, but the tendrils are like it's cells. (bad example but I dun care)
They do fight eachother. And no, they don't give themselves up, they would fight to the death. Even if they fight, they don't lose any biomass anyways, it would all be absorbed regardless.

Thank you for reading. I would also have to say them fighting to gain favor is a good concept. From what i understand the hive mind exists in the warp so im curious if its just another warp entity that made a species in its image to fight in the real universe?

The Hive Mind does not exist in the warp (so far as I am aware), in fact I'm pretty sure the warp is limited to the Milky Way only. BTW, does anyone know the record of galaxies eaten by Nids? Or is it just the one they were created/evolved in?

I'm not so sure if it's from the warp, more like just the consciousness of a race. I would doubt that it created the race, more like the race created it (weren't warriors the first tyranids?). There is the theory that the hive mind is actually a C'tan called the outsider, as they are both describe in a subtle, yet very similar way.

Of course, it's just a theory, and until GW would probably pass it off as bollocks it stays at that.

Golden Sabres wrote:I'm not so sure if it's from the warp, more like just the consciousness of a race. I would doubt that it created the race, more like the race created it (weren't warriors the first tyranids?). There is the theory that the hive mind is actually a C'tan called the outsider, as they are both describe in a subtle, yet very similar way.

Wait, aren't Necrons the antithesis of Tyranids?

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Golden Sabres wrote:I'm not so sure if it's from the warp, more like just the consciousness of a race. I would doubt that it created the race, more like the race created it (weren't warriors the first tyranids?). There is the theory that the hive mind is actually a C'tan called the outsider, as they are both describe in a subtle, yet very similar way.

Wait, aren't Necrons the antithesis of Tyranids?

Why yes they are. In the sense of organic and non-organic. But never the less, they do have something in common. They are both soulless. Now, therefore, if the tyranids are indeed soulless, but the creatures they consume do have souls, those souls must have been consumed yes?

40kwiki wrote: Since the the recent invasion of the galaxy by the Hive Fleets of the Tyranids, it has been speculated by some in the Inquisition that the Outsider is behind the Tyranids' arrival in the Milky Way. He may be the driving force behind the unified Tyranid Hive Mind, as he seeks to destroy the galaxy's defenders with the living weapon that is the Tyranid species. If he is the Tyranids' ultimate master, then there may be no stopping the Tyranids from consuming the Imperium of Man and all who would oppose the C'tan. The Necrons will fully awaken and shall once more harvest all life in the galaxy.

Retrieved from "http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/The_Outsider"

Souls, most likely consumed by the outsider.

Course, this is all irrelevant as the space elves will rise again and pwn them all anywayz!

Golden Sabres wrote:I'm pretty sure they fight eachother to gain more favour with the hive mind. The hive mind is one entity, yes, but the tendrils are like it's cells. (bad example but I dun care)
They do fight eachother. And no, they don't give themselves up, they would fight to the death. Even if they fight, they don't lose any biomass anyways, it would all be absorbed regardless.

Actually, yes they would lose biomass.

A large amount of energy is consumed while fighting, and many chemical reactions-- such as the kind needed to break bodies down-- take energy as well. It's pretty much impossible to get 100% of chemical reactants to, well, react. Even with a very efficient system, they're still going to lose some energy due to heat loss.

What are you talking about? I never said they would'nt lose biomass (re-read my post).

....<.<
....>.>

*flees while everyone re-reads his post... *phew**

If it was a C'Tan i dont see how it would cast a shadow in the warp with their inability to be psychic. I might be wrong. And i figured it had to exist in the warp to be so psychically powerful.

Golden Sabres wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:
Wait, aren't Necrons the antithesis of Tyranids?

Why yes they are. In the sense of organic and non-organic. But never the less, they do have something in common. They are both soulless. Now, therefore, if the tyranids are indeed soulless, but the creatures they consume do have souls, those souls must have been consumed yes?

1) Necrons aren't souless. They are trapped souls of Necrontyr.

2) The souls is unlikely to be consumed along with the biological corpse when dead. Even by 40k spiritual standards it doesn't work that way.

Chosen Praetorian wrote:If it was a C'Tan i dont see how it would cast a shadow in the warp with their inability to be psychic. I might be wrong. And i figured it had to exist in the warp to be so psychically powerful.

If you were scared shitless of the warp, would you try and place a barrier between yourself and the warp?
And wait a minute, I thought they just had insane mental abilities. I mean, if you look at the nightbringer you go insane and try and kill yourself don't you?


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Emperors Faithful wrote:

Golden Sabres wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:
Wait, aren't Necrons the antithesis of Tyranids?

Why yes they are. In the sense of organic and non-organic. But never the less, they do have something in common. They are both soulless. Now, therefore, if the tyranids are indeed soulless, but the creatures they consume do have souls, those souls must have been consumed yes?

1) Necrons aren't souless. They are trapped souls of Necrontyr.

2) The souls is unlikely to be consumed along with the biological corpse when dead. Even by 40k spiritual standards it doesn't work that way.

I stand corrected... I just realised I have contradicted my self...


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Golden Sabres wrote:

4M2A wrote:Even if the necrons do get damaged to the point they can't heal or are killed so many times they become useless they is no reason to think the C'tan can't just make some more, there are lots of races out there that would love "imortality".

Aye, that be true. But they won't be Necrons then. The Necrons are the souls of the Necrontyr and if they are completely destroyed, so will their souls. Sure, the C'tan can find new servants, but eventually every Necron will die in a war of Attrition. (And then the race will be called pariahs lol)

Oh how I contradict myself.

But Im confused. The shadow in the warp exist in the warp and they have psychic abilities which seems to me says they have the ability to access the warp which is something the C'tan could never do IIRC

Chosen Praetorian wrote:But Im confused. The shadow in the warp exist in the warp and they have psychic abilities which seems to me says they have the ability to access the warp which is something the C'tan could never do IIRC

I always just thought that it was a barrier in between the warp like the webway... (as in between the material plane and the immaterium.)
Coz IIRC they C'tan were always constantly trying to seal off the warp from the material plane.

P.S.
We need one of dem flufynuts bos!

lexicanum wrote: It is as if the Tyranids have blocked out the connection to the warp, making any psychic abilities very difficult to accomplish, affecting psychic races like the Eldar most heavily. It does however have the added benefit of keeping the denizens of the warp in the warp.

Please interpret that...

Lol sounds like a parental control blocker on warp users

C'tan plan for galactic domination:

1. Break necrodermis shell so they are giant gaseous energy thingies
2. Go to Sol
3. eat Sol
4. Terra has no sun, humans lose->chaos has no followers left, nids have way less food
5. ?????????
6. Profit!

I would think the Deciever is smart enough for this then again the C'tan don't seem so interested in winning, just having a good time and eating tasty snacks.

asimo77 wrote:C'tan plan for galactic domination:

1. Break necrodermis shell so they are giant gaseous energy thingies
2. Go to Sol
3. eat Sol
4. Terra has no sun, humans lose->chaos has no followers left, nids have way less food
5. ?????????
6. Profit!

I would think the Deciever is smart enough for this then again the C'tan don't seem so interested in winning, just having a good time and eating tasty snacks.

The nightbringer necrodermis is already destroyed..... Kaela Mensha Khaine gave him an ass whoopin' and shattered his shell. That is why we know him as the ESSENCE of the nightbringer. Also, the deciever seems like the kind of guy that would love to rule an empire...

1. Go to Terra.
2. Eat emperor.
3. Become emperor.
4. Tell humanity to like it or lump it.
5. Start up the best farm in existence.
6. Profit! And an eternity of snacks of course.

I'm pretty sure that the Nightbringer reformed, some of the shards even went into Khaine which is how the dark reapers started or something. I've also never heard this essence thing, I always assumed he's just the plain ole Nightbringer. Besides, there's a few references in the codex that states the necrodermis shell reforms with no problem.

D'oh! Yeah, he did reform. And the shard stabbed into him tainting him the aspect of the reaper.

Golden Sabres wrote:What are you talking about? I never said they would'nt lose biomass (re-read my post).

I did. But no system is perfectly closed, which means some energy will escape, and therefor it will lose energy from the process, becoming weaker, not stronger. Even if it is nothing but heat energy (unlikely), that's still energy that's always being lost over time.

Melissia wrote:

Golden Sabres wrote:What are you talking about? I never said they would'nt lose biomass (re-read my post).

I did. But no system is perfectly closed, which means some energy will escape, and therefor it will lose energy from the process, becoming weaker, not stronger. Even if it is nothing but heat energy (unlikely), that's still energy that's always being lost over time.

Lol. I know that, I meant re-read the part where I mentioned biomass. I updated it to say they lose biomass lol.

I have no idea of where you are getting the idea that Tyranid fleets fight each other, i've never come across this before.

The only instance I can recall of anything remotely happening like this is the instance with the Zoats back in 3rd Ed.

If this is the case then why would they even bother to split up in to different fleets if one is only going to eat the other? I understand what you are saying that it's to increase biomass but it's counter productive as the victor would still suffer heavy losses and might not recover what it lost.

I think that the Shadow in the Warp is basically a psychic null blanket that's caused by the Hive Fleet and its synapse creatures and their connection to the Hive Mind. I guess its does the same sort of thing as a pariah does to a psyker.

Not sure if I agree with the points stating that the Imperium is united. On paper maybe but look what happened when the poop hit the fan in the Heresy? If things really went boobies up you would have the same thing happen all over again. The Imperium is to widespread to be fully coherent with each other and each planet still has their own laws and beliefs.

The victors, should this really happen, would either be the Necrons, Orks or Tyranids as each have a singular goal. Death to all life for the Necrons, Om nom nom for the Tyranids and a big scrap for the Orks.

You forgot eldar! They are really just faking their fall and deaths like a mouse or rat sneaking into your fridge when it's caught...

Hey, does anyone know approximately how many eldar are left?

Golden Sabres wrote:You forgot eldar! They are really just faking their fall and deaths like a mouse or rat sneaking into your fridge when it's caught...

Hey, does anyone know approximately how many eldar are left?

2

damn, they really are dying then, last time I checked there were three.

Nids eat each other all the time, they fight each other constantly and break the losers down into biomass. This ensures only the strongest nids are surviving and to make sure they keep evolving, that much i know for sure.

What i am curious about though if it's known that all 3 tendrils follow the same hive mind? If they dont theres a good chance of a massive nid civil war once they collide. just speculation though.

I say Necrons who have greatest firepower,FTL which crossed galaxy in matter of moments and better tech.Fully mobilised Necron military is something that only Culture level civilisations or higher could destroy without trouble.

People Tyranid fighting each other rarely happens and they do regain all of their biomass anyway. What's much mor common is the IG fighting each other. Tyranid are completely unified unlike humanity which has thousands of factions.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:People Tyranid fighting each other rarely happens and they do regain all of their biomass anyway. What's much mor common is the IG fighting each other. Tyranid are completely unified unlike humanity which has thousands of factions.

Again, no. Energy is still spent and lost due to entropy in an open system.

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:People Tyranid fighting each other rarely happens and they do regain all of their biomass anyway. What's much mor common is the IG fighting each other. Tyranid are completely unified unlike humanity which has thousands of factions.

Again, no. Energy is still spent and lost due to entropy in an open system.

Which is still 8 billion times more efficient at reclaiming resources than when all the other races fight themselves.

There are just too many Necrons for the other races to handle!

bloodaxegit wrote:There are just too many Necrons for the other races to handle!

Really? I thought there were less than a couple million.


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NeedsMoreDakka wrote:Nids eat each other all the time, they fight each other constantly and break the losers down into biomass. This ensures only the strongest nids are surviving and to make sure they keep evolving, that much i know for sure.

What i am curious about though if it's known that all 3 tendrils follow the same hive mind? If they dont theres a good chance of a massive nid civil war once they collide. just speculation though.

CHAOS NIDS????

Actually, is it too far off that the tyranids might invoke a 5th chaos god..of hunger? Then chaos wins!

Okay- looking at all the races:
Imperium- on the road to ruin
Eldar- pretty much dead already
Dark eldar- Ditto
Tau- next...
Necrons- they'll probably go into an aon-long slumber again...
Orks- probably fight with each other and die in a mad experiment/waagh or join one GIANT waagh made up of every ork and die during warp-travel or something...
Chaos- Gets eaten by 'nids or destroyed by the inquisition via exterminatus
Tyranids- Keep on devouring until they converge on the biggest astropathic signal in the galaxy- Terra- the emperor. They eat Terra, the emperor dies, opens up the warp, daemons eat 'nids.
Daemons win.

Pilau Rice wrote:

Golden Sabres wrote:You forgot eldar! They are really just faking their fall and deaths like a mouse or rat sneaking into your fridge when it's caught...

Hey, does anyone know approximately how many eldar are left?

2

Both Male. Wraith constructs don't count right?

lol your explanation of how the orks die is verry shabby. Orks dont just die out, its literally impossible what with them releasing spores all the time, and increased amounts when they die, plus orks would rather fight da umies and zeenos than their fellow boys.

That's why you use flamers.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:People Tyranid fighting each other rarely happens and they do regain all of their biomass anyway. What's much mor common is the IG fighting each other. Tyranid are completely unified unlike humanity which has thousands of factions.

Again, no. Energy is still spent and lost due to entropy in an open system.

Which is still 8 billion times more efficient at reclaiming resources than when all the other races fight themselves.

Not really, because the other races are actually able to PRODUCE.

'Nids can't. They can only ever take.

Melissia wrote:
'Nids can't. They can only ever take.

Probably the worst enviromentalists I have ever seen. Bad Tyranids, Bad!

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:People Tyranid fighting each other rarely happens and they do regain all of their biomass anyway. What's much mor common is the IG fighting each other. Tyranid are completely unified unlike humanity which has thousands of factions.

Again, no. Energy is still spent and lost due to entropy in an open system.

Which is still 8 billion times more efficient at reclaiming resources than when all the other races fight themselves.

Not really, because the other races are actually able to PRODUCE.

'Nids can't. They can only ever take.

Okay. So, Tyranids take biomass, oceans, atmosphere, etc. off of a planet and do absolutely nothing with it according to you. I can understand where you're coming from. After all, they're certainly not using those resources to make more Tyranids. The surely aren't incorporating useful DNA into themselves to make a better super-predator.



I don't know what special definition of "produce" you're operating under, but Tyranids produce just as much as anyone else, and they do it far more efficiently and on an incredible scale.

The Dizzler wrote:

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:People Tyranid fighting each other rarely happens and they do regain all of their biomass anyway. What's much mor common is the IG fighting each other. Tyranid are completely unified unlike humanity which has thousands of factions.

Again, no. Energy is still spent and lost due to entropy in an open system.

Which is still 8 billion times more efficient at reclaiming resources than when all the other races fight themselves.

Not really, because the other races are actually able to PRODUCE.

'Nids can't. They can only ever take.

Okay. So, Tyranids take biomass, oceans, atmosphere, etc. off of a planet and do absolutely nothing with it according to you. I can understand where you're coming from. After all, they're certainly not using those resources to make more Tyranids. The surely aren't incorporating useful DNA into themselves to make a better super-predator.



I don't know what special definition of "produce" you're operating under, but Tyranids produce just as much as anyone else, and they do it far more efficiently and on an incredible scale.

What they are refering to is the fact that other races can actually live on a planet for almost an eternity, because they keep recycling energy. Tyranids can't. They only use it and don't replace it.

For example, an Imperial ship can remain in space almost indefinetely (excluding food and other supplies) due to it's power generators, which means it will never run out of power. Tyranid ships however, must constantly go to other planets and get more biomass, as it cannot recycle energy efficiently, they can only take it.

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:People Tyranid fighting each other rarely happens and they do regain all of their biomass anyway. What's much mor common is the IG fighting each other. Tyranid are completely unified unlike humanity which has thousands of factions.

Again, no. Energy is still spent and lost due to entropy in an open system.

Which is still 8 billion times more efficient at reclaiming resources than when all the other races fight themselves.

Not really, because the other races are actually able to PRODUCE.

'Nids can't. They can only ever take.

You're being a little closed minded. Tyranid are like every other species: they eat then reproduce. Humans (and every other race) need food to reproduce too. They are just literally millions of times less efficent at using the resources they consume.

What race is a galaxy ravaging parasite that consumes all indigenous life on worlds? HUMANS!


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Golden Sabres wrote:

The Dizzler wrote:

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:People Tyranid fighting each other rarely happens and they do regain all of their biomass anyway. What's much mor common is the IG fighting each other. Tyranid are completely unified unlike humanity which has thousands of factions.

Again, no. Energy is still spent and lost due to entropy in an open system.

Which is still 8 billion times more efficient at reclaiming resources than when all the other races fight themselves.

Not really, because the other races are actually able to PRODUCE.

'Nids can't. They can only ever take.

Okay. So, Tyranids take biomass, oceans, atmosphere, etc. off of a planet and do absolutely nothing with it according to you. I can understand where you're coming from. After all, they're certainly not using those resources to make more Tyranids. The surely aren't incorporating useful DNA into themselves to make a better super-predator.



I don't know what special definition of "produce" you're operating under, but Tyranids produce just as much as anyone else, and they do it far more efficiently and on an incredible scale.

What they are refering to is the fact that other races can actually live on a planet for almost an eternity, because they keep recycling energy. Tyranids can't. They only use it and don't replace it.

no, Hive worlds are not "independant" or self sustaining. They require a score of other worlds to supply them with everything. All planets have a finite amount of everything. While a human may strip a world by turning everything into wheat for 15,000 years a Tyranid can obtain the same elements in a day.

The only difference between The Tyranid and every other race is efficiency. More effecient by factors of literally billions.

kamikaze something or rather wrote:What race is a galaxy ravaging parasite that consumes all indigenous life on worlds? HUMANS!

Depends on the type of world, hive worlds and mining worlds sure, humanity strips them of their resources, but what about agri worlds? They replace everything on those worlds. They are "self-sustaining."

What they are refering to is the fact that other races can actually live on a planet for almost an eternity, because they keep recycling energy. Tyranids can't. They only use it and don't replace it.

no, Hive worlds are not "independant" or self sustaining. They require a score of other worlds to supply them with everything. All planets have a finite amount of everything. While a human may strip a world by turning everything into wheat for 15,000 years a Tyranid can obtain the same elements in a day.

The only difference between The Tyranid and every other race is efficiency. More effecient by factors of literally billions.

A finite amount that they keep RECYCLING, whilst tyranids do not, they just take it and send it down the drain.

Golden Sabres wrote:What race is a galaxy ravaging parasite that consumes all indigenous life on worlds? HUMANS!

Depends on the type of world, hive worlds and mining worlds sure, humanity strips them of their resources, but what about agri worlds? They replace everything on those worlds. They are "self-sustaining."

What they are refering to is the fact that other races can actually live on a planet for almost an eternity, because they keep recycling energy. Tyranids can't. They only use it and don't replace it.

no, Hive worlds are not "independant" or self sustaining. They require a score of other worlds to supply them with everything. All planets have a finite amount of everything. While a human may strip a world by turning everything into wheat for 15,000 years a Tyranid can obtain the same elements in a day.

The only difference between The Tyranid and every other race is efficiency. More effecient by factors of literally billions.

Aye Earth. But, they'll be back in a few million years. We can go without oil for that long surely.

Golden Sabres wrote:

The Dizzler wrote:Okay. So, Tyranids take biomass, oceans, atmosphere, etc. off of a planet and do absolutely nothing with it according to you. I can understand where you're coming from. After all, they're certainly not using those resources to make more Tyranids. The surely aren't incorporating useful DNA into themselves to make a better super-predator.



I don't know what special definition of "produce" you're operating under, but Tyranids produce just as much as anyone else, and they do it far more efficiently and on an incredible scale.

What they are refering to is the fact that other races can actually live on a planet for almost an eternity, because they keep recycling energy. Tyranids can't. They only use it and don't replace it.

For example, an Imperial ship can remain in space almost indefinetely (excluding food and other supplies) due to it's power generators, which means it will never run out of power. Tyranid ships however, must constantly go to other planets and get more biomass, as it cannot recycle energy efficiently, they can only take it.

Piffle, other races exploit their worlds and still require outside resources to make them livable. Imperial hive and forge worlds require huge amounts of food and raw material to keep functioning on a daily basis. The Eldar (both craftworld and dark) rely on piracy to acquire whatever materials they need. Orks impose their own ecology wherever they go and have an uncontrollable need to expand and conquer. Necrons kill everything, eat souls and go to sleep. Hell the C'Tan used to eat stars, of all things. Chaos does... unpleasant things to the worlds they take.

Tyranids may strip planets bare, but any other race would do the same if they had the ability. If anything, Tyranids have added more to the galaxy than anyone else, simply by bringing extragalactic material into this galaxy.

Actually I think the imperium will fall... but humans will rise again as the other races duke it out for the top spot! WE WILL SURVIVE! CURSE THE HERETICS AND DOUBTERS! Somehow.. Humanity will survive, even if the Imperium doesn't. Even if we ARE chaos warped.

stompydakka wrote:

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Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:Imperium somehow. THEY WILL PULL THROUGH!

doubt



doubt




doubt




doubt

HERESY! VILE XENOS SCUM! Actually, orks and nids will wipe eachother out, trying to kill everything...

@ emperors faithful: Thanks, man. We loyalists (and traitors) have to believe in something, right? I mean, I play a regenade chapter, but I still believe in humanity, if not the emperor!

Eldar are the good guys and the good guyz always win !!!

But seriously....

I would have to say Tyranids, they seem to be an unstopable infection with impecable numbers, and they dont need a planet to survive.

someone way back in the thread said that the tau wouldn't survive......... WAT.Does anyone have faith in the currently advance race of the 40k universe? i say eat railgun!!! the tau has alien alliances with other races like vespids and kroot. they would do their dirty work and we will explore for more lackeys!

SteamAlchemist wrote:someone way back in the thread said that the tau wouldn't survive......... WAT.Does anyone have faith in the currently advance race of the 40k universe? i say eat railgun!!! the tau has alien alliances with other races like vespids and kroot. they would do their dirty work and we will explore for more lackeys!

The Imperium is more advanced then the tau.


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The Dizzler wrote:
The Eldar (both craftworld and dark) rely on piracy to acquire whatever materials they need. .

You don't read much eldar fluff do you? They don't rely on piracy. The craftworlds do not need "supplies" of any kind. A craftworld is self sustaining and the only resource that they ever leave the craft world to get are waystones. The only source of which is on the crone worlds. Hell, they don't even need metals or any other substance to make their tools and buildings with. Their technology is almost exclusively psychic. They manipulate any type of matter to create things.

Nids destroying finite planets, one world at a time

True, buuuut.....
1. There is only one hive fleet that has so far actually NOT been stopped and that is leviathan (I think, I sometime mix them up). Behemoth was stopped by the Ultramarines and Orks, and Kraken was stopped by the Tau, Ultramarines (Why is it always Ultramarines going off and owning the Tyranids?) and Craftworld Iyanden.

Golden Sabres wrote:

The Dizzler wrote: The Eldar (both craftworld and dark) rely on piracy to acquire whatever materials they need. .

You don't read much eldar fluff do you? They don't rely on piracy. The craftworlds do not need "supplies" of any kind. A craftworld is self sustaining and the only resource that they ever leave the craft world to get are waystones. The only source of which is on the crone worlds. Hell, they don't even need metals or any other substance to make their tools and buildings with. Their technology is almost exclusively psychic. They manipulate any type of matter to create things.

Right, all those slave raids by Dark Eldar aren't to get souls so Slaanesh doesn't eat them. And craftworld Eldar Corsairs just raid the ships and fleets of other races, putting precious ships and lives at risk just to be space elf jerks. Somehow I don't buy it. Face it, they're prates because they need to be, not just because they like be space elf jerks.

Golden Sabres wrote:True, buuuut.....
1. There is only one hive fleet that has so far actually NOT been stopped and that is leviathan (I think, I sometime mix them up). Behemoth was stopped by the Ultramarines and Orks, and Kraken was stopped by the Tau, Ultramarines (Why is it always Ultramarines going off and owning the Tyranids?) and Craftworld Iyanden.

Wat.

Behemoth was stopped by the Ultramarines and with the sacrifice of a nearby sector fleet. Kraken was stopped at Ichar IV with a one-time-only virus weapon by the Imperium and at Iyanden with the sacrifice of their entire defense fleet and 80% of their population. Leviathan was lured into Ork territory where they stalemated until the 5th codex shows that they won after all.

Looks like I'm not the only one that needs to brush up on fluff, eh?

The Dizzler wrote:

Golden Sabres wrote:

The Dizzler wrote: The Eldar (both craftworld and dark) rely on piracy to acquire whatever materials they need. .

You don't read much eldar fluff do you? They don't rely on piracy. The craftworlds do not need "supplies" of any kind. A craftworld is self sustaining and the only resource that they ever leave the craft world to get are waystones. The only source of which is on the crone worlds. Hell, they don't even need metals or any other substance to make their tools and buildings with. Their technology is almost exclusively psychic. They manipulate any type of matter to create things.

Right, all those slave raids by Dark Eldar aren't to get souls so Slaanesh doesn't eat them. And craftworld Eldar Corsairs just raid the ships and fleets of other races, putting precious ships and lives at risk just to be space elf jerks. Somehow I don't buy it. Face it, they're prates because they need to be, not just because they like be space elf jerks.

Looks like I'm not the only one that needs to brush up on fluff, eh?

1. Eldar Craftworld Corsairs don't exist, they are an entirerly different faction like the exodite. Whilse yes, they need supplies, Craftworld Eldar don't (excluding waystones).

2. Yeah... I only have the 4th ed codex... and hve only recently started reading the 5th ed.

3. You are still ignoring the fact that the Craftworlds are a self replenishing reservoir of power. That is from the codex itself.

And, which page is the leviathan victory on?

Golden Sabres wrote:
1. Eldar Craftworld Corsairs don't exist, they are an entirerly different faction like the exodite. Whilse yes, they need supplies, Craftworld Eldar don't (excluding waystones).

While a seperate faction they often either originate from craftworlds or work in conjunction with them. However, the Dizzler is wrong to assume that they sieze the goods of other races in order to supply the Craftworlds. Craftworlds are pretty sustainable.

And, which page is the leviathan victory on?

Leviathan Victory?

Dizzler is saying that Hive fleet Leviathan defeated the Ork Empires where they were held in stalemate...

Golden Sabres wrote:Dizzler is saying that Hive fleet Leviathan defeated the Ork Empires where they were held in stalemate...

Oh yeah, that was in Planetstrike. But that was one planet. That wasn't a comment on the Hive Fleets victory as a whole, in fact they are still very much tangled up in that mess.

Dats what I was tinkin!

Unreal Toast wrote:Eldar are the good guys and the good guyz always win !!!

But seriously....

Are there any good guys in 40k? Doesn't it all depends on what side of the gun you are standing on

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:Nids eat each other all the time, they fight each other constantly and break the losers down into biomass. This ensures only the strongest nids are surviving and to make sure they keep evolving, that much i know for sure.

What i am curious about though if it's known that all 3 tendrils follow the same hive mind? If they dont theres a good chance of a massive nid civil war once they collide. just speculation though.

I still don't buy this at all, there is only one Hive Mind that controls all the tyranids as the Synapse are an extension of this intelligence. Ok, I'll go along with that they might fight any tendril that has maybe lost its connection to the hive mind and that it will also absorb the wounded and infirm organisms in its ranks, but other Hive Fleets, no, sorry.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Both Male. Wraith constructs don't count right?

Indeed and nope, the Eldar always were a bit what, fruity?

One thing with the Eldar though, when they all die, they will form into Ynnead right? After that, what happens? (Besides telling Slaanesh to shut the up and sit in his corner)

Pilau Rice wrote:

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:Nids eat each other all the time, they fight each other constantly and break the losers down into biomass. This ensures only the strongest nids are surviving and to make sure they keep evolving, that much i know for sure.

What i am curious about though if it's known that all 3 tendrils follow the same hive mind? If they dont theres a good chance of a massive nid civil war once they collide. just speculation though.

I still don't buy this at all, there is only one Hive Mind that controls all the tyranids as the Synapse are an extension of this intelligence. Ok, I'll go along with that they might fight any tendril that has maybe lost its connection to the hive mind and that it will also absorb the wounded and infirm organisms in its ranks, but other Hive Fleets, no, sorry.

Dont buy what? That nids dont eat each other all the time? Because thats a line straight from the codex, the rest of it i was having fun speculating since i dont remember there being proof of only one Hive Mind for ALL tyranids.

I'm going to have to throw my hat to to the Orks here. The Eldar before the fall were the undisputed rulers of the galaxy (all fluff supports that), they put down the necron threat putting them into statsis and even they couldn't get rid of the green tide.

I don't think if they were at the height of their power they'd have much of a problem handling the nids. Hell one craftworld did hold out against a full hive fleet invasion, even though it is now a shadow of it's former self.

El-dred wrote:I'm going to have to throw my hat to to the Orks here. The Eldar before the fall were the undisputed rulers of the galaxy (all fluff supports that), they put down the necron threat putting them into statsis and even they couldn't get rid of the green tide.

I don't think if they were at the height of their power they'd have much of a problem handling the nids. Hell one craftworld did hold out against a full hive fleet invasion, even though it is now a shadow of it's former self.

Eldar didn't put Necrons in stasis,the Enslavers did it.
Necrons are last race standing,if everything fails(which I rather doubt) they can go to another galaxy.

More likely their c'tan stargods starve and die, and they go to sleep and become mindless drones as time goes on, new life starts up, and they're pushovers for that new life. Which is probably Orks.

If Necrons Phase Out breaks and no longer applies, Orks could make some sweet gear from living metal

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:If Necrons Phase Out breaks and no longer applies, Orks could make some sweet gear from living metal

Now THAT'S orky know-wots.

Melissia wrote:More likely their c'tan stargods starve and die, and they go to sleep and become mindless drones as time goes on, new life starts up, and they're pushovers for that new life. Which is probably Orks.

There are plenty of stars in the galaxy, I don't think they'd starve plus being around since the creation of the universe means they probably know what's what in the grim dark future of the 41st milennium.

I love orks. Although I think that if they survive everything else, they'd have no one to fight, except themselves. Most likely, ork civil war would break out and all orks die. the end.

El-dred wrote:I'm going to have to throw my hat to to the Orks here. The Eldar before the fall were the undisputed rulers of the galaxy (all fluff supports that), they put down the necron threat putting them into statsis and even they couldn't get rid of the green tide.

Actually, they could get rid of the Orks. In fact, I bet all Orks near the old empire would have been eradicated. Craftworld Biel-tan actually has a falcon variant, designed to sterilise Orks worlds, making it impossible for them to release spores.

A thing sbout tyranids:
Yes. They fight each other. This is done for two reasons:
1)To absorb the weaker's DNA.
2) to develop new tactics. As of the 5th edition codex, they do have tactical toughts.
Also, the point of the Tyrainds is they can take the same amount of resources in a planet in weeks that would take us millenia to do. Each planet can only produce a finite number of resources; the water you drink has been recycled over and over. The tyrainds just take the water, and instead of naturaly recycling it they recycle it...IN SPACE!
Pro: Speed. As mentioned, tyranids can quickly move from one planet to another, using a minimum amount of energy.
Con: Recycling process isn't as efficiant on board the hive ships.
Personally, I believe the Tyranids have worked out the easiest way to preform an action, like it could be easier for them to fight than it would be for us, using less resources to do so.

I have to go with Necrons. After nids eat everything and move on to the Dimension where the Jonas Brothers are good, and Dane Cook is funny, the Necrons will just wake up and do the robot for eternity.

Samus_aran115 wrote:I love orks. Although I think that if they survive everything else, they'd have no one to fight, except themselves. Most likely, ork civil war would break out and all orks die. the end.

Ork fight and wage full on war with each other ALL the time, do it to fight, to loot, and to stay sharp. Orks can eradicate other orks from a world, theres no desire to, in fact they wouldnt want to if fighting orks was all they had left.

Eldar Win!

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:
Dont buy what? That nids dont eat each other all the time? Because thats a line straight from the codex, the rest of it i was having fun speculating since i dont remember there being proof of only one Hive Mind for ALL tyranids.

Yeah, that they fight each other all the time - I don't agree with that. Maybe I am interpreting what you are saying wrong. I agree with the eating part though

About the Hive Mind - P6 Codex Tyranids

.. for each Hive Fleet is but a splinter of one greater assemblage, acting under the instructions of a single monstrous and unfathomable Intelligence - the Hive Mind ...

They are controlled by a single entity and are extensions of this. Creatures that are severed from the hive mind, sure, wounded creatures, I wouldn't call this fighting but making use of something redundant, sure. But actual fighting - I can't find any reference to this. Maybe I am missing this in the Codex.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I said it before and I'll say it again: 'Nids eat the Galaxy.

I agree. The nids devour everything on a world which would pose a problem for the orks.

Pilau Rice wrote:

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:
Dont buy what? That nids dont eat each other all the time? Because thats a line straight from the codex, the rest of it i was having fun speculating since i dont remember there being proof of only one Hive Mind for ALL tyranids.

Yeah, that they fight each other all the time - I don't agree with that. Maybe I am interpreting what you are saying wrong. I agree with the eating part though

About the Hive Mind - P6 Codex Tyranids

.. for each Hive Fleet is but a splinter of one greater assemblage, acting under the instructions of a single monstrous and unfathomable Intelligence - the Hive Mind ...

They are controlled by a single entity and are extensions of this. Creatures that are severed from the hive mind, sure, wounded creatures, I wouldn't call this fighting but making use of something redundant, sure. But actual fighting - I can't find any reference to this. Maybe I am missing this in the Codex.

Maybe last edition.

I voted tyranids they're almost infinite in number and can consume entire planets. Its only my opinion anyway

Orks DUH!


These threads pop up from time to time and its ALWAYS down to Orks and Nids. Kindda silly but hey, it happens.

Klawz wrote:Maybe last edition.

Sure it was like that then too, but he is referencing the current codex.

KingCracker wrote:


These threads pop up from time to time and its ALWAYS down to Orks and Nids. Kindda silly but hey, it happens.

We got necrons too.

Generally , people don't pay attention to the motivation of the contenders and assume orks, nids , necrons or any other suggested stay in this galaxy.
Nids = leave when its to lifeless. Won't stay for the 'last meal'.
Necrons = have no itnerest to kill the food of their Ctan completly, go to stasis to await repopulation.
Orks = have a good chance, but could be distracted from fighting outside this galaxy and leave too.

1hadhq wrote:
Orks = have a good chance, but could be distracted from fighting outside this galaxy and leave too.

Eh?

Emperors Faithful wrote:

1hadhq wrote:
Orks = have a good chance, but could be distracted from fighting outside this galaxy and leave too.

Eh?

Ya, That made no sense. Pretty Sure Orks aren't leaving the Galaxy anytime soon.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

1hadhq wrote:
Orks = have a good chance, but could be distracted from fighting outside this galaxy and leave too.

Eh?

Ya, That made no sense. Pretty Sure Orks aren't leaving the Galaxy anytime soon.

Orks are fungi. Fungi expand. If there are more orks somewhere else, and the fun to be had there is greater, why should orks stay?
Orks are as free from 'home sweet home' , as nids, necrons, eldar, etc as they go where they like.

There would still be plenty of other orks in the galaxy to krump.

I believe it says it the necron codex that the Nightbringer cultivated whole races in order to feed on them. Does this mean creating the entire race? If so couldn't the C'tan do that in order to create slave races on which to feed?

1hadhq wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

1hadhq wrote:
Orks = have a good chance, but could be distracted from fighting outside this galaxy and leave too.

Eh?

Ya, That made no sense. Pretty Sure Orks aren't leaving the Galaxy anytime soon.

Orks are fungi. Fungi expand. If there are more orks somewhere else, and the fun to be had there is greater, why should orks stay?
Orks are as free from 'home sweet home' , as nids, necrons, eldar, etc as they go where they like.

Dude, going to the next Galaxy isn't like crossing the street. The nearest galaxy is 2.5 million light years away.

Necron's beat the true Gods in the universe, they can surely defeat what's there now. It will just be a rinse and repeat cycle, eat and clean up, sleep and wait for more food to form.

Tyranids and Necrons would be stalemated for a while, but the Necrons exterminate the life on planets and create tomb worlds, by doing this there is no appeal to Tyranids, and in the end the Tyranids will have nothing to feed on.

Mankind already worships the Deceiver and the Void Dragon, Necrons have already beat them. Once the Dragon wakes up the Emperor is dead, and then the rest of mankind dies out without the Emprah.

Chaos can't get near the Necrons as they seal the warp around them.

Necrons fluff-wise are unbeatable, but i'm given to understand that Chaos possesses Blackstone Fortresses that are C'tan destroyers, but seeing as how it was the Deceiver that directed Chaos to them, their effectiveness is iffy.

The majority of the Necron force that went into slumber has fallen into disrepair.

samrtk wrote:
Mankind already worships the Deceiver and the Void Dragon, Necrons have already beat them. Once the Dragon wakes up the Emperor is dead, and then the rest of mankind dies out without the Emprah.

Lies!


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KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Dude, going to the next Galaxy isn't like crossing the street. The nearest galaxy is 2.5 million light years away.

And given the fact that the Warp doesn't extend beyond the Milky Way they'd have to travel real-time. Something even the Tyranid force likely baulked at. Tyranids only survived via hibernation (and likely a vast amount of cannibalism). Orks simply don't have the means to do this.

samrtk wrote:Necron's beat the true Gods in the universe, they can surely defeat what's there now. It will just be a rinse and repeat cycle, eat and clean up, sleep and wait for more food to form.

No they didn't ,the C'tan did.

And the C'tan are nowhere NEAR as strong OR numerous as they used to be. From what I can gather, there were one C'tan for each star. Now there's only four C'tan. One of which nearly died to Ultramarines, another of which had its ASS handed to it by the Emperor, and another of which is trapped inside of a dyson sphere.

Fun times.


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Emperors Faithful wrote:Orks simply don't have the means to do this.

Not yet, anyway.

If there's one thing the Imperium has learned over the years, it's "don't underestimate Ork ingenuity".

samrtk wrote:Necron's beat the true Gods in the universe, they can surely defeat what's there now. .

WTF??? What the ?
Dude, no, the C'tan are barely mentioned in Eldar history. Many Eldar gods survived the war in heaven. And those that were killed, were killed by other gods, not C'tan. The Necrons, if it wasn't for the Enslavers, would have lost the war, because the Eldar and their gods were leading a counter-attack. They did not win. No one won (except the Enslaver, curse those warp jellyfish).

Melissia wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:Orks simply don't have the means to do this.

Not yet, anyway.

If there's one thing the Imperium has learned over the years, it's "don't underestimate Ork ingenuity".

Ah, but they'd have to watch the Imperium or Tau do it first.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:Orks simply don't have the means to do this.

Not yet, anyway.

If there's one thing the Imperium has learned over the years, it's "don't underestimate Ork ingenuity".

Ah, but they'd have to watch the Imperium or Tau do it first.

I dont think the Tau or the IG have ever made anything close to a shokk attack gun
Im sure the prototypes will be variations of a planet sized catapult, but they will get there eventually

Right, the Orks have invented plenty of things that the Imperium, Tau, and Eldar never dreamed of doing.

Something about a complete lack of morals, and a complete lack of concern for safety really broadening their horizons.

Golden Sabres wrote:

samrtk wrote:Necron's beat the true Gods in the universe, they can surely defeat what's there now. .

WTF??? What the ?
Dude, no, the C'tan are barely mentioned in Eldar history. Many Eldar gods survived the war in heaven. And those that were killed, were killed by other gods, not C'tan. The Necrons, if it wasn't for the Enslavers, would have lost the war, because the Eldar and their gods were leading a counter-attack. They did not win. No one won (except the Enslaver, curse those warp jellyfish).

You forget to take into account that it was the C'tan that pushed the Old Ones into desperation, forcing them to create new life to defend themselves, these races opened the warp allowing the Enslavers to do what they did. The C'tan pretty much were the reason of the Old One's downfall. The point in which maybe I didn't make all too clear.

I think it's an interesting poll that i have thought about for some time.

I think that the Eldar and Dark Eldar will fall first (obviously). Then the Imperium of man will fall because unless a miracle is going to happen (read: the emperor awakens) then the imperium is just slowly going to crumble.
I think the Tau will then replace the Imperium in the upcoming powervacuum just like the imperium did when the Eldar fell butt they will fall eventually too.
So that brings us to the final 3: Necrons, Tyranids and Orks. Well the problem with those is that nobody knows how many Necrons and Tyranids there actually are.
I myself think that the Tyranids will eventually be the last race standing because they trife on war just as well as the orks do and they can evolve what the Orks can't do. Also the Orks can't co-operate (long) and that suits the Tyranids just fine they just replenish there losses after each victory and that's the problem with Tyranids, you can't just were them down untill there is nothing left. You have to kill them all in one big strike and with the Orks missing the intelligence to do that properly i think it is hardly likely that the Orks will defeat the Tyranids.

Then the Necrons, well i don't know how the Tyranids vs Necrons will turn out actually. We don't know very much about the capabilities of the Necrons and there numbers. I still think that the Tyranids will defeat the Necrons because the necrons aren't well in adapting, they have very few different warriors and warmachines and although there technology is far superior than anything else in the universe the Tyranids will eventualy adapt and then it's gonna get ugly for the Necrons.

So that's what i think of it Tyranids as the last race standing.

grimoverlord10 wrote:nobody knows how many Necrons and Tyranids there actually are.

Nobody knows exactly how many Orks there are either. What we DO know, however, is far more than we know about Necrons and Tyranids-- that they outnumber all other sentient races in the galaxy combined.

And the 'nids come from outside the galaxy so it could be possible that the 'nids in the galaxy are only a portion of the total nuber of 'nids.

Emperors Faithful wrote:The majority of the Necron force that went into slumber has fallen into disrepair.

samrtk wrote:
Mankind already worships the Deceiver and the Void Dragon, Necrons have already beat them. Once the Dragon wakes up the Emperor is dead, and then the rest of mankind dies out without the Emprah.

Lies!


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KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Dude, going to the next Galaxy isn't like crossing the street. The nearest galaxy is 2.5 million light years away.

And given the fact that the Warp doesn't extend beyond the Milky Way they'd have to travel real-time. Something even the Tyranid force likely baulked at. Tyranids only survived via hibernation (and likely a vast amount of cannibalism). Orks simply don't have the means to do this.

exactly, I don't think people are giving the 'nids enough credit for being the only creatures in known existence to pull off intergalactic travel. INTERGALACTIC! They are by far the most advanced race. Biologically made technology is still technology.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Dude, going to the next Galaxy isn't like crossing the street. The nearest galaxy is 2.5 million light years away.

Emperors Faithful wrote:
And given the fact that the Warp doesn't extend beyond the Milky Way they'd have to travel real-time. Something even the Tyranid force likely baulked at. Tyranids only survived via hibernation (and likely a vast amount of cannibalism). Orks simply don't have the means to do this.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
exactly, I don't think people are giving the 'nids enough credit for being the only creatures in known existence to pull off intergalactic travel. INTERGALACTIC! They are by far the most advanced race. Biologically made technology is still technology.

Fact? I doubt you can point to a source which restricts the warp to the 'milky way'.
As the Hive mind does not exist in realspace, so where is it except the warp?
If it is in the warp, your idea of the warp bound to the galaxy fails as the Hivemind is outside the galaxy....

I am not sure how it is acceptable to claim orks may invent anything but cannot find a way for intergalactic travel.

The warp extends beyond the milky way. It's just that there's no living beings in empty space (duh) so the warp is extremely calm. Which isn't good if you're basically attempting to "sail" though still waters.

1hadhq wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Dude, going to the next Galaxy isn't like crossing the street. The nearest galaxy is 2.5 million light years away.

Emperors Faithful wrote:
And given the fact that the Warp doesn't extend beyond the Milky Way they'd have to travel real-time. Something even the Tyranid force likely baulked at. Tyranids only survived via hibernation (and likely a vast amount of cannibalism). Orks simply don't have the means to do this.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
exactly, I don't think people are giving the 'nids enough credit for being the only creatures in known existence to pull off intergalactic travel. INTERGALACTIC! They are by far the most advanced race. Biologically made technology is still technology.

Fact? I doubt you can point to a source which restricts the warp to the 'milky way'.
As the Hive mind does not exist in realspace, so where is it except the warp?
If it is in the warp, your idea of the warp bound to the galaxy fails as the Hivemind is outside the galaxy....

I am not sure how it is acceptable to claim orks may invent anything but cannot find a way for intergalactic travel.

We didn't claim orks can invent anything. In fact the genetically engineered knowlege present in some Orks installed by The Old Ones seems to be set. Orks can only invent what they're supposed too a la the Jokiree.

1hadhq wrote:

Fact? I doubt you can point to a source which restricts the warp to the 'milky way'.

Maybe I've been getting the webway and the warp mixed up. Nevertheless, as the Old Ones apparently created the warp in the first place (did they? My knowledge on these guys is more than a little rusty) it would depend if the Old Ones merely dwelled in the Milky, or were able to make forays into other galaxies.

As the Hive mind does not exist in realspace, so where is it except the warp?
If it is in the warp, your idea of the warp bound to the galaxy fails as the Hivemind is outside the galaxy....

The Hive mind is not inside the warp. The Hive-Mind is the conglomerate instinct or intelligence that governs the Tyranid force, but has no single location (such as a Mother-of-all Mother ships). Where are you getting this 'Hivemind in the Warp'?


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NeedsMoreDakka wrote:
I dont think the Tau or the IG have ever made anything close to a shokk attack gun

Isn't a Shock Attack Gun basically a warp drive....weapon-thingy?

EDIT: The Mekk probably saw an unfortunate Warp Spider teleport halfway through some Ork Boy or something and thought "Roight, that there could be sumfing wiv a bag of lil fella's!"

I'm pretty sure the warp is everywhere. It's just an alternate dimension, it wasn't created by the old ones it just exists.

Warp travel beyond this galaxy is possible. From what we know about the warp it would make sense for it to be just as demon infested as in our galaxy. The warp isn't affected by any rules so there shouldn't be any space as we know it.

Nids aren't the only intergalactic race. Orks have been found outside the milky way. It's possible C'tan exist outside because they were created in stars (IIRC) which are everywhere.

@Melissa:

A calm warp isn't bad..

@KamikazeCanuck:

Would agree that orks are set on their given pool of knowlegde which they may access to create things.
So why don't answer the first point in my post?

@EF:

The Empyrean wasn't created by any known entity of 40k.
The old ones just messed it up when they utilized it to fight the C'tan, so 'perils of the warp' would not be part of the game without this as the warp/empyrean
was a calm place before.

The hive mind is described in the BRB as waiting outside of the galaxy and not beeing part of realspace. It also "shadows the warp" so it has effects on the warp
and I thougth it a good question to ask where the hive mind exists, as 'mind-power' seems likely to be found where thougths have a place = the warp.

On a side note: I really like your idea how orks invented the shokk-attack-gun.

Emperors Faithful wrote:
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NeedsMoreDakka wrote:
I dont think the Tau or the IG have ever made anything close to a shokk attack gun

Isn't a Shock Attack Gun basically a warp drive....weapon-thingy?

EDIT: The Mekk probably saw an unfortunate Warp Spider teleport halfway through some Ork Boy or something and thought "Roight, that there could be sumfing wiv a bag of lil fella's!"

The Shokk Attack Gun is basically a weapon that can tear a hole through the marterial universe and create an opening into the warp, using snotlings as ammo. (Snotlings not needed but it must be hilarious for a Mek to teleport a warp mad snotling INSIDE of a living target)
I like your idea on how it came to be though

4M2A wrote:I'm pretty sure the warp is everywhere. It's just an alternate dimension, it wasn't created by the old ones it just exists.

Warp travel beyond this galaxy is possible. From what we know about the warp it would make sense for it to be just as demon infested as in our galaxy. The warp isn't affected by any rules so there shouldn't be any space as we know it.

Nids aren't the only intergalactic race. Orks have been found outside the milky way. It's possible C'tan exist outside because they were created in stars (IIRC) which are everywhere.

Orks have been found outside the milky way by whom?

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Orks have been found outside the milky way by whom?

"From the Galactic Core to the distant Ghost Stars burgeoning Ork empires rise and fall"
Not sure if Ghost Stars are outside the Milky Way, but i would think an Ork presense on just about anything would be pretty hard to miss

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Orks have been found outside the milky way by whom?

"From the Galactic Core to the distant Ghost Stars burgeoning Ork empires rise and fall"
Not sure if Ghost Stars are outside the Milky Way, but i would think an Ork presense on just about anything would be pretty hard to miss

They are not Once again the closest galaxy is 2.5 million light years away. The ghost stars are just hanging of the galaxy is all. To give you some perspective the entire milky way is like 90,000 light years across.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Orks have been found outside the milky way by whom?

"From the Galactic Core to the distant Ghost Stars burgeoning Ork empires rise and fall"
Not sure if Ghost Stars are outside the Milky Way, but i would think an Ork presense on just about anything would be pretty hard to miss

They are not Once again the closest galaxy is 2.5 million light years away. The ghost stars are just hanging of the galaxy is all. To give you some perspective the entire milky way is like 90,000 light years across.

Alrighty then sooo unless someone has another quote then we can neither confirm nor deny that Orks might infest other galaxies. *handshake*

Im going to vote they are though, since my desire for the coolest army to be the everywhere far outweighs facts, logic, and peoples opinions who dissagree.

1hadhq wrote:@Melissa:

A calm warp isn't bad..

Replace "calm" with "completely and absolutely still", and bad with "rather difficult to move around in". And "isn't" with "is".

Ork transmissions from out of galaxy have been found by Imperial probes. The passage on that was a little vague , but in any case it is cannon ("Erre We Go"?) that the orks are spread throughout the universe. They end up that way as a result of traveling by space hulk though, and there doesn't seem to be any evidence that they can purposefully cross galaxies. The warp is confirmed to extend past the Milky Way as well, according to another piece of lore on warp travel and navigation (navigation being the real problem; the Astronomicon doesn't illuminate much besides the Milky Way).

Also, there's no reason to believe that orks are limited in technological knowledge to what has been preprogramed into them. To the contrary, there are numerous references to exceptional meks devising things that hadn't been created before in the ork codex, and I doubt the Old Ones were driving around in ramshackle trukks and shooting goblins into people before they decided to encode the ability to build these things into the orks as well (assuming the Old One theory is correct). The inborn technological knowledge that meks have isn't a set of blueprints, so much as it is a general understanding of the principles that they need to use (mechanics, engineering, and so forth).

I would also think that the Hive Mind exists in the warp, or at least functionally exists there, since otherwise the hive fleets would be unable to coordinate even in the slightest (barring necron technology; there doesn't seem to be any evidence of them having that, though). Plus, it's the easiest explanation for the Shadow in the Warp, and we do know that contact can be made with the Hive Mind through the warp thanks to Tigurius.

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Orks have been found outside the milky way by whom?

"From the Galactic Core to the distant Ghost Stars burgeoning Ork empires rise and fall"
Not sure if Ghost Stars are outside the Milky Way, but i would think an Ork presense on just about anything would be pretty hard to miss

They are not Once again the closest galaxy is 2.5 million light years away. The ghost stars are just hanging of the galaxy is all. To give you some perspective the entire milky way is like 90,000 light years across.

Alrighty then sooo unless someone has another quote then we can neither confirm nor deny that Orks might infest other galaxies. *handshake*

Im going to vote they are though, since my desire for the coolest army to be the everywhere far outweighs facts, logic, and peoples opinions who dissagree.

fair enough.

Orkeosaurus wrote:Also, there's no reason to believe that orks are limited in technological knowledge to what has been preprogramed into them. To the contrary, there are numerous references to exceptional meks devising things that hadn't been created before in the ork codex, and I doubt the Old Ones were driving around in ramshackle trukks and shooting goblins into people before they decided to encode the ability to build these things into the orks as well (assuming the Old One theory is correct). The inborn technological knowledge that meks have isn't a set of blueprints, so much as it is a general understanding of the principles that they need to use (mechanics, engineering, and so forth).

Right, Ork Meks are born with blueprints of how to make something, they are born already having knowledge and understanding of both physics and engineering, other than that they are only limited by their imagination. Quite literally too
No two Ork vehicles are the same, proving they aren't born with blueprints, just knowledge.

Heh. Yeah. Ork meks aren't born with blueprints. That would indicate some sort of standardization.

In the end, the Emperor, not the Imperium as it exists today, wins.

Upon his glorious foretold return, the Emperor of Mankind shall gather about him his still loyal primarchs, rallying them from their slumber or calling them home from their eternal quests. Together, they shall wage a war, not merely of conquest, but aimed directly at exterminating all of the enemies of humanity. This righteous crusade shall not cease until it shoves the Emperor's light right up the ass of the Eye of Terror and into the face of Chaos Undivided. First to fall will be those weak humans who chose sacrilege over truth. Then, the Emperor's traitorous sons and their corrupted legions shall fall, one after another. As Abbadon draws his last breath, a cry of pain shall emerge from the Warp, spilling forth the combined power of every last Daemon from the void. Then, with their servants broken and shattered, the Chaos Gods themselves shall meet the wrath of our divine Emperor. Freed from his Golden Throne, He shall break the Archenemies. One, two, three, then four will fall, and humanity will at last be free from their taint. On that day, the galaxy will see gods bleed, and, on that day, humanity shall take it's rightful place as sole ruler amongst the stars, and our beloved Emperor shall guide us into the future.

shealyr wrote:In the end, the Emperor, not the Imperium as it exists today, wins.

Upon his glorious foretold return, the Emperor of Mankind shall gather about him his still loyal primarchs, rallying them from their slumber or calling them home from their eternal quests. Together, they shall wage a war, not merely of conquest, but aimed directly at exterminating all of the enemies of humanity. This righteous crusade shall not cease until it shoves the Emperor's light right up the ass of the Eye of Terror and into the face of Chaos Undivided. First to fall will be those weak humans who chose sacrilege over truth. Then, the Emperor's traitorous sons and their corrupted legions shall fall, one after another. As Abbadon draws his last breath, a cry of pain shall emerge from the Warp, spilling forth the combined power of every last Daemon from the void. Then, with their servants broken and shattered, the Chaos Gods themselves shall meet the wrath of our divine Emperor. Freed from his Golden Throne, He shall break the Archenemies. One, two, three, then four will fall, and humanity will at last be free from their taint. On that day, the galaxy will see gods bleed, and, on that day, humanity shall take it's rightful place as sole ruler amongst the stars, and our beloved Emperor shall guide us into the future.

Then the Imperial Guardsmen wakes up in a trench wondering why his leg is 40 feet away from him.

shealyr wrote:In the end, the Emperor, not the Imperium as it exists today, wins.

Upon his glorious foretold return, the Emperor of Mankind shall gather about him his still loyal primarchs, rallying them from their slumber or calling them home from their eternal quests. Together, they shall wage a war, not merely of conquest, but aimed directly at exterminating all of the enemies of humanity. This righteous crusade shall not cease until it shoves the Emperor's light right up the ass of the Eye of Terror and into the face of Chaos Undivided. First to fall will be those weak humans who chose sacrilege over truth. Then, the Emperor's traitorous sons and their corrupted legions shall fall, one after another. As Abbadon draws his last breath, a cry of pain shall emerge from the Warp, spilling forth the combined power of every last Daemon from the void. Then, with their servants broken and shattered, the Chaos Gods themselves shall meet the wrath of our divine Emperor. Freed from his Golden Throne, He shall break the Archenemies. One, two, three, then four will fall, and humanity will at last be free from their taint. On that day, the galaxy will see gods bleed, and, on that day, humanity shall take it's rightful place as sole ruler amongst the stars, and our beloved Emperor shall guide us into the future.

Heir Heir.

samrtk wrote: You forget to take into account that it was the C'tan that pushed the Old Ones into desperation, forcing them to create new life to defend themselves, these races opened the warp allowing the Enslavers to do what they did. The C'tan pretty much were the reason of the Old One's downfall. The point in which maybe I didn't make all too clear.

No, I didn't forget. I'm not stupid. Did I say the Old One were winning? NO. Did I say that the Old Ones were Gods. NO. Are you now assuming that Old Ones are gods? YES. Are they? NO. Are the Eldar Gods Old Ones? Possibly. If this is so, did they die? NO. Did the C'tan kill an eldar god. NO. It says that only gods killed eachother, and the Yngir (C'tan) didn't do . Am I saying if it wasn't for the Enslavers the the C'tan and Necrons would not exist to day? YES. That was the only thing that i was implying.

And also, it seems that the Eldar will not be the first to die out, in fact, I doubt they will... in a sense. If the Eldar race die, they will form Ynnead, and he will own the ruinous power, and then return the Eldar to the material plane in another form.

Orkeosaurus wrote:Ork transmissions from out of galaxy have been found by Imperial probes. The passage on that was a little vague , but in any case it is cannon ("Erre We Go"?) that the orks are spread throughout the universe. They end up that way as a result of traveling by space hulk though, and there doesn't seem to be any evidence that they can purposefully cross galaxies. The warp is confirmed to extend past the Milky Way as well, according to another piece of lore on warp travel and navigation (navigation being the real problem; the Astronomicon doesn't illuminate much besides the Milky Way).

Can you give a source for this?

Melissia wrote:Heh. Yeah. Ork meks aren't born with blueprints. That would indicate some sort of standardization.

...Bits of Blueprints maybe?

shealyr wrote:In the end, the Emperor, not the Imperium as it exists today, wins.

Upon his glorious foretold return, the Emperor of Mankind shall gather about him his still loyal primarchs, rallying them from their slumber or calling them home from their eternal quests. Together, they shall wage a war, not merely of conquest, but aimed directly at exterminating all of the enemies of humanity. This righteous crusade shall not cease until it shoves the Emperor's light right up the ass of the Eye of Terror and into the face of Chaos Undivided. First to fall will be those weak humans who chose sacrilege over truth. Then, the Emperor's traitorous sons and their corrupted legions shall fall, one after another. As Abbadon draws his last breath, a cry of pain shall emerge from the Warp, spilling forth the combined power of every last Daemon from the void. Then, with their servants broken and shattered, the Chaos Gods themselves shall meet the wrath of our divine Emperor. Freed from his Golden Throne, He shall break the Archenemies. One, two, three, then four will fall, and humanity will at last be free from their taint. On that day, the galaxy will see gods bleed, and, on that day, humanity shall take it's rightful place as sole ruler amongst the stars, and our beloved Emperor shall guide us into the future.

At first I was like...

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:Then the Imperial Guardsmen wakes up in a trench wondering why his leg is 40 feet away from him.

But then I was all...



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Golden Sabres wrote:

And also, it seems that the Eldar will not be the first to die out, in fact, I doubt they will... in a sense. If the Eldar race die, they will form Ynnead, and he will own the ruinous power...

This is only a far-fetched prophecy, no certainy about it.

...and then return the Eldar to the material plane in another form.

And this was never part of the bargain.