1hadhq wrote:I am not considering to suggest to hide until they die of age as a tactic, but one thing is common: these Hive ships are old. Not new.
So maybe it takes a lot of time to replace them? If so, opponnents with potent weapons and superior space drives could focus on the Hive Ships and
play this hit and run game until the nids lack production capacities to keep their major strength: respawning .
Fleet based reproduction is mobile, but not without drawbacks. Planet based production may be secured deeply underneath and safe from interruption.
A ship has full 3D attack vectors against it.

It's already been done, in the fluff. The Tyranids are pretty clever when it comes to space based combat too (like luring a Tau fleet trying to take down the remnants of a hive fleet away from their supporting ships then destroying them). But there's fluff describing fleets that have been destroyed down to the last few hive ships, then coming back after attacking a few undefended colonies and getting the biomatter to regrow the fleet. Hell, Behemoth is still around, and the Ultramarines all but destroyed that fleet. Regrowing their fleet isn't as hard as you're making it sound - certainly quicker than it takes the Imperium to make new ships. Each ship lost to the Imperium is a devastating blow, they're millenia old and take a long time to replace.

T'au are easy to deceive...look at the latest codices and they follow a trend of failure.

Nids may come back if they don't loose ALL of their Hive ships.
The solution to this would be to ignore anything except the 'capital ships', as I doubt the smaller ones can mutate into something else and have not the ability
to reproduce ships.
The Necrons with superior tech could pull this off. A piece of necron tech was able to withstand whole Imperial sector fleets alone.
Necrons aren't using the warp to move in space, the nids 'shadow in the warp' does not hamper them. IMO the undead in space got the speed, the shields and the weapons to beat bugs in space.

Most Tyranid ships can calve and also expand in size when they take on biomatter, so it's not a huge effort for remnants of a Hive Fleet to attack an agri world and get the biomass needed to grow to a good size again. This is mentioned in the 3rd edition codex. Some hive ships get incredibly big too - since they can expand in size when they take on biomass, some hive ships dwarf Imperial battleships.

1hadhq wrote:T'au are easy to deceive...look at the latest codices and they follow a trend of failure.

Nids may come back if they don't loose ALL of their Hive ships.
The solution to this would be to ignore anything except the 'capital ships', as I doubt the smaller ones can mutate into something else and have not the ability
to reproduce ships.
The Necrons with superior tech could pull this off. A piece of necron tech was able to withstand whole Imperial sector fleets alone.
Necrons aren't using the warp to move in space, the nids 'shadow in the warp' does not hamper them. IMO the undead in space got the speed, the shields and the weapons to beat bugs in space.

Yes, but they tend to avoid each other because they know they're the baddest mutherf***ers in the galaxy. We mess with each other when there's easier prey.

The tendril of Leviathan that attacked the Ork world of Ghorala had no Hive Ships left at all. The few wounded ships that made it into orbit past the Ork minefields and space-born fleets fired their Mycetic Spores down to the planet, then died.

Over the next few months, the Tyranids crushed the Orks that followed them down to the surface, consumed the planet and grew new Hive Fleet from the biomass. Leviathan went from literally being reduced to a planetary Tyranid infestation to be being a space-prowling monster again in less than a year.

The Tyranids have no problems with creating new ships, nor with growing new forces on the surface of a world if they have to.

Xyptc wrote:The tendril of Leviathan that attacked the Ork world of Ghorala had no Hive Ships left at all. The few wounded ships that made it into orbit past the Ork minefields and space-born fleets fired their Mycetic Spores down to the planet, then died.

Over the next few months, the Tyranids crushed the Orks that followed them down to the surface, consumed the planet and grew new Hive Fleet from the biomass. Leviathan went from literally being reduced to a planetary Tyranid infestation to be being a space-prowling monster again in less than a year.

The Tyranids have no problems with creating new ships, nor with growing new forces on the surface of a world if they have to.

soooo....all your biomass are belong to us?

wat the tyranids need to do is eat half of each ork and then come back a year or 2 later and repeat the process, that would give themj a steady supply of biomass
and on another note: 100th post

Xyptc wrote:The tendril of Leviathan that attacked the Ork world of Ghorala had no Hive Ships left at all. The few wounded ships that made it into orbit past the Ork minefields and space-born fleets fired their Mycetic Spores down to the planet, then died.

Over the next few months, the Tyranids crushed the Orks that followed them down to the surface, consumed the planet and grew new Hive Fleet from the biomass. Leviathan went from literally being reduced to a planetary Tyranid infestation to be being a space-prowling monster again in less than a year.

The Tyranids have no problems with creating new ships, nor with growing new forces on the surface of a world if they have to.

Source?

I would say the Orks could even out last the nids. If planets or civilizations fall to tyranids Orks will just come in and settle on the planet. Soon, it would become very difficult for tyranids to take each planet that they control and with the lack of enemies (other than themselves) many orks would be driven to fight the tyranid fleet.

It terms of getting to the Emperor first? Chaos probably cares more about that than any other army and could likely achieve it as the Imperium starts to crumble and CSM can remain strong due to their dedication to Chaos.

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Xyptc wrote:The tendril of Leviathan that attacked the Ork world of Ghorala had no Hive Ships left at all. The few wounded ships that made it into orbit past the Ork minefields and space-born fleets fired their Mycetic Spores down to the planet, then died.

Over the next few months, the Tyranids crushed the Orks that followed them down to the surface, consumed the planet and grew new Hive Fleet from the biomass. Leviathan went from literally being reduced to a planetary Tyranid infestation to be being a space-prowling monster again in less than a year.

The Tyranids have no problems with creating new ships, nor with growing new forces on the surface of a world if they have to.

Source?

Tyranid Codex (5th Ed), pages 30 and 31. It documents in full a tendril of Leviathan making its way into the Octarius sector, getting pounded by Ork spacial defences, staggering on to an Ork-populated world (Ghorala) before being destroyed. The Tyranids that made planetfall out-thought (and then out-fought) the Orks, before using the planet as a birthing ground for new Hive Ships. They then proceeded on to join the main assault on the Octarius sector.

This isn't the first documented instance of this either - the entire point of the Forge World Anphellion story is that captive Tyranids (mostly various forms of 'gaunt) were able to give rise to a complete infestation featuring everything from Genestealers to Hierophants.

This tells us too things - the Tyranids are incredibly difficult to keep down, and (more subtly) it should be causing us to ask just what the hell the Tyranids are doing with the majority of the biomass they strip from a world if it only took a single world to regenerate a good sized tendril of Leviathan. Are they taking it somewhere unseen? Are they growing far more Tyranids than we realise and sending them back out into the stellar void? We don't know - it's not something GW have really addressed since the Magos Biologis articles that were in White Dwarf during 3rd Edition (and even then they only highlighted the "missing mass", rather than offering any explanations).

I like that. More unknown alien horror stories.

djdutton wrote:I would say the Orks could even out last the nids. If planets or civilizations fall to tyranids Orks will just come in and settle on the planet. Soon, it would become very difficult for tyranids to take each planet that they control and with the lack of enemies (other than themselves) many orks would be driven to fight the tyranid fleet.

It terms of getting to the Emperor first? Chaos probably cares more about that than any other army and could likely achieve it as the Imperium starts to crumble and CSM can remain strong due to their dedication to Chaos.

A planet properly stripped by the Tyranids has no atmosphere, no liquid, few useful minerals, a significantly reduced core temperature etc. Orks are extremely resilient and wonderful survivors... but under those conditions even Orks are going to be hard-pressed to survive. They do after all need to breath (amongst other things). Sure, the Orks could "terraform" (Orkyform? Orkify? Orkarize?) a planet that the Tyranids have stripped... but why bother? There's nothing there worth using. It's just a place to sit.

The answer comes from the eldar book of the Rhana Dandra. It foretells of a galaxy spanning war between the forces of chaos (though of course this does include daemons) and the material universe. There is no winner, everything dies. If the forces of the material plane fought each other as well as chaos then they would surely lose, if they didn't then it would be a draw.

P.S none of this was made up. Anyone who has read the inquisition war or the eldar codex that thoroughly will agree with me (hopefully).

TRISKELION7 wrote:The answer comes from the eldar book of the Rhana Dandra. It foretells of a galaxy spanning war between the forces of chaos (though of course this does include daemons) and the material universe. There is no winner, everything dies. If the forces of the material plane fought each other as well as chaos then they would surely lose, if they didn't then it would be a draw.

P.S none of this was made up. Anyone who has read the inquisition war or the eldar codex that thoroughly will agree with me (hopefully).

But isnt the Rhana Dandra just a part of Eldar mythology thats the equivalent to our Rapture or Apocalypse, I realise the Eldar are great seers but its possible the universe wont end the way they imagine.

The Eldars' powers of prognostication are greatly overexaggerated.
Even humans are better. The Emperor's Tarot is stupidly accurate.

I would have to say ALOT of Tyranid biomass goes to the indescribably large Tyranid fleet that these others have been scouting for. Otherwise the huge fleet would get there with outdated tyranid organisms and that would be pointless for them.

Ok guys (and girls) sorry but i have to say this:

In the chaos deamons Fluff it says that EVERYTHING is part of Tzeentch's plans, this boils down to hes not ever going to let the fighting end because there will be no more sceming for him, everything is under his control and this is a GW sneaky way of saying there will be no last man standing, the fight will go on for eternity

Look at the question. Now at my post. Now back to the question. Sadly, this question isn't 'Who WILL be the last race standing?' but 'Who WOULD be the last race standing?'

The more you know.

Thats the point there cannot possibly be a last race standing, regardless of whether we are talking in "wills" or "woulds" it just cant happen.

I view your comment and feel very annoyed by your voiced opinion. But you can keep it.

Sorry its just the way my head works, id take it back i still stand by it

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:But that same thinking is what makes the Orks such a threat! They will just keep on fighting because its what they love to do.

Im not really familiar with Imperium lore but if they can nuke planets like that then why the hell havnt they done it already?

They have at Kreig, they bombed the and people still live on it.

Blood Raven 5th Company wrote:

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:But that same thinking is what makes the Orks such a threat! They will just keep on fighting because its what they love to do.

Im not really familiar with Imperium lore but if they can nuke planets like that then why the hell havnt they done it already?

They have at Kreig, they bombed the and people still live on it.

Nukes? Pah. Try Exterminatus

i like to think vortex missles are nukes i know they arent, but still...hey that gives me an idear....1:35 scale soviet nuke truck (dont know correct name) for apoc

1hadhq wrote:T'au are easy to deceive...look at the latest codices and they follow a trend of failure.

Tau are naive, no doubt about it, but their failures just mean they're due for a large amount of pro-fluff whenever they get a new 'dex. I'd like to see GW emphasize their ability to rapidly change and evolve to combat a threat, a la the splinter fleet mentioned in the 5th edition Tyranid 'dex. But overall they just need a major fleshing out as a "major" race, beyond anything else they just need more background

1) Deathstrikes are the nukes of 40. Soviet vehicles would be fine as chimera-chassis replacement IMO.
2) vortex missiles are superior to nukes. There is no fallout afterwards, just a clean untainted gameingtable surface...

@Retribution:

The Tau got a place in 40k as minor new rising empire and GW put them in the BRB not in the first place of new xenos empires. ( 2nd place after draxians? at page 119 ).

Gw can either keep them a small newbie faction ( which I think is most likely ) or:

- move the timeline to make Tau a major power in 40k ( unlikely in 5th ed as it seems to stop at M41 generally ).
- have the nids consume them ( didn't happen yet, so there safe until the next nid codex comes )
- use the chance of a xenos alliance and combine Tau and other new empires ( unlikely this edition if GW keeps updating everything first and lacks the time to add )
- go deus ex machina and do a time-jump, the Tau's puppeteers saving the Empire with another warpstorm but Tau don't get more fluff/new codex until 6th ed.

Would assume:

- Tau have nids on their heels.
- Tau need to get over their 'manifest destiny' nonsense and see the truth of eternal war.
- Tau either end in a civil war ( Farsight vs etherals ) or reunite.
- Tau finally accept there are only 2 factions which may consider the existance of Tau tolerable: Eldar, because they find them cute. Humans, because they find them
a practicable bait to keep the nids and orks busy..
- Tau learn to get off their "we know better" attitude and ask their neighbours if those undead or spikey creatures are trustworthy before any attempt at friendship
with evil is made. Sooner or later to fail at identifiying threats will get them killed.
- one of the Tau leaders is sniped by catachans, thus 1 wellknown character may be already dead. chance to redo HQ.

Possible fate from this point of 5th ed ( BRB, expansions, codices):

- Tau gain some xenos allies which seek protection from nids.
- Tau lack a nose but still get their virtual noses bloodied. Next codex counters the fluff of Tau empire codex or levels after 5th ed countered it already.
- Tau are saved from squatting by multiple existant plastic kits.
- the Tau fanbase is lucky and the catachans sniped the space pope. without him, Tau gain a new course where the fire caste equals the etherals in power.
- as GW drove themselves into a corner with 5th ed = endtimes, Tau are restricted to local importance in this ed.
- with the warrior caste gaining power, focus is on the military and great wars are fought. The concept of Honor leads to many temporary alliances.
- Tau join the other 'complete' races ( IE those with more than warriors, space elfs , space humans,...) against common threats like nids, necrons and orks.
- GW adds some xenos and a flying transport to their codex.

And still the last to stand will be a lonely guardsmen, forgotten in all the fighting and the galaxy drifts silently uncaring for his pleas to answers his call :
"hello? anyone out there?"....

but then GW pushes the Reset-button and tells us : anything we've told you was a lie. and 6th ed ignores the endtimes theme completly.

I like the idea of the fire caste becoming a political rival rather than utterly subservient, much like a praetorian guard. I don't see it happening with the current Ethereal fluff being "no-one can disobey them when they're actually around, period", however

Tau have a course set by 2 codices, so they are still flexible enough to add or alter the course if GW wills it.
What I am trying to say is, less successful models ( space pope ) may get redone or die to advance the story.
It can't stay at a split fire caste ( shadowsun/farsight ), so reuniting the fire caste and splitting the etherals after the death of space pope aun va would advance the story without 4th , 5th or whatever expansion spheres, wich add not much at all. Tau began as small 1 system faction, expanded in the second dex and IMO
need another theme than more expansions in their 3rd dex. To restrict the power of the etherals would provide that.
Tau need something outside bluegrey-space-ants if GW adds more allies. Let these etherals keep a veto and influence the Tau, but generally a empire would consist
of more than pure Tau sept worlds and these non-Tau members may not follow the etherals as unquestioning as Tau do.
Spiritual leaders are all good and fine, but Tau have already Kroot and vespids and any expansion may add more races to the military arm of the empire.
I'd pull the etherals back to a role of advisors and hand the command over to the fire caste.
( in game terms: etherals = fluff, advisors / HQ option. Fire caste = HQ, maybe other xenos HQ's too . )

If the focus goes to fire caste, concepts like Honor and military needs could save the Tau from a fate of a race fallen to false friends.
Remember the ones giving a party to necrons and offering Tau to dark eldar were etherals....
Soldiers act upon proven data, thus:
- robots = bad
- space bugs = bad
- spikey space elfs = bad
- angry Gue'la = be careful,but also chances are high for having a common enemy. Shared goals = temporary ally.
- orks = bad
- space elfs = did they outsmart us?
- other spikey things = according to elfs and Gue'la = very bad. advice:Take no risk, rated = bad.

Tau may survive for some time if they take realism over blind faith in manifest destiny.
They may not have a chance to be last race standing as empires tend to split and having multiple races increase the chance of this.

yes, if the Tau leave their current objective behind, they will last MUCH longer.

The Tau have been bloodied by just about every "big bad" race 40k has to offer, they tried talking to orks and got beat up, they tried talking to crons and got beat up, they've been picked on by the Deldar...who's left for them to try and parley with...Chaos followers maybe? I imagine by the time we get a 5th ed. 'dex they should have a pretty good outline for who not to talk to

yes I hope they do, as of now though I do not like the way they think. They are brand new to the galaxy and think they can fix everything without knowing anything about it. Hence all the mistakes. You should be correct though (save GW throwing us a curve ball), the Tau should understand by the time their new codex comes out who to trust. Wich is nobody at all

The Tau think they wiped Chaos out. There's a little piece of fluff somewhere about how the Tau think they killed off the Cult of Slaanesh, thinking it some small localized thing.

Everyone seems frown upon the tau's piecful approach, but it works very well on imperium worlds in the fluff. If you can conquer a world without a shot fired, then you have saved alot of energy and resources.

It sometimes works well, yes.

Not always.

Yep. Lets go have peace talks with the Necrons! *gets obliterated*
Believe it or not the tau have tried that before.

If the tau focus on imperial worlds and other small species like kroot and vespid, then they should do just fine.

Without a doubt, the Imperium of Man are gonna win. They survived the Macharius Heresy, countless Cardinals rebelling and destruction in their wake, Black Crusades and worst of all the Horus Heresy, they even survived the Emperor nearly dying

The imperium is in a slow state of decay, even the emperor will die eventually. Yes, the imperium has survived everything thrown at it, but they lose a little more land and resources every time.

There's arguments abound that once the Imperium loses a certain amount, they'll reach a point where it becomes much easier for htem to defend what they have.

Asherian Command wrote:Yep. Lets go have peace talks with the Necrons! *gets obliterated*
Believe it or not the tau have tried that before.

Looking at it from a players perspective, ie omnipresent, we don't have the narrow view that the races themselves would have. The necrons had just saved them from a Tyranid invasion, now, if you had no prior knowledge at all about the necrons, would you start shooting at those who just saved you?

@Retribution:
necrons look like skeletons (undead') and humans would not trust such creatures.

Mr Nobody wrote:Everyone seems frown upon the tau's piecful approach, but it works very well on imperium worlds in the fluff. If you can conquer a world without a shot fired, then you have saved alot of energy and resources.

Piece ful? ok R.I.P Tau . the only peace you'll have in this 40verse ( if youre lucky and chaos is still uninterested..)

Mr Nobody wrote:If the tau focus on imperial worlds and other small species like kroot and vespid, then they should do just fine.

Making a major power in this Galaxy angry gets you far? Sorry if the Imperial warmachine catches up steam theyre faster going extinct than GW can delete any records of their existence...

Mr Nobody wrote:The imperium is in a slow state of decay, even the emperor will die eventually. Yes, the imperium has survived everything thrown at it, but they lose a little more land and resources every time.

Would it be Grimdark with an active Emperor?
If a Imperium survives a civil war, (consuming half his military strength), still exists no matter how hard orks, elfs and bugs try to ruin it, why do you think there is anything to fear?
Most of the threats aim at the IoM as its the biggest target, now if it isn't there what do you think happens to all these small xeno empires when the
necrons, bugs and orks look for some new grounds to play?
The combined might of the Imperial armies can stem the tide. But i doubt any of the oh so advanced xenos survive a single year without the IoM around.

If the story really did continue, humans would go the same way as the eldar, and a new empire would rise (tau?), and the cycle would happen over and over again.

sorry its the same uninspired story everytime.

Elfs / space elfs leave the games universe wherever you look at. Not specifically GW, everywhere.

Humans don't. There here to stay. Maybe be the poor ones to suffer, maybe have no special abilities but still survive.

End times to its fullest = Mankind extinct.
Imagine GW dropping 60% of the background. Oh, not much left to carry on?

/ 40k.

Retribution wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:Yep. Lets go have peace talks with the Necrons! *gets obliterated*
Believe it or not the tau have tried that before.

Looking at it from a players perspective, ie omnipresent, we don't have the narrow view that the races themselves would have. The necrons had just saved them from a Tyranid invasion, now, if you had no prior knowledge at all about the necrons, would you start shooting at those who just saved you?

Sorry but the fleet you had that you lost contact with just prior to them coming is not evidence enough that they are going to kill you? And its in 40k universe everything is hostile.
Women = hostile
Dogs = hostile
Guardsmen = hostile
Civilian = hostile
everything else = hostile
The Tau are tree huggers in the best sense of the word. And they are peaceful which will be their down fall

Even the fire caste doesn't like the peace talk policy.

Asherian Command wrote:

Retribution wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:Yep. Lets go have peace talks with the Necrons! *gets obliterated*
Believe it or not the tau have tried that before.

Looking at it from a players perspective, ie omnipresent, we don't have the narrow view that the races themselves would have. The necrons had just saved them from a Tyranid invasion, now, if you had no prior knowledge at all about the necrons, would you start shooting at those who just saved you?

Sorry but the fleet you had that you lost contact with just prior to them coming is not evidence enough that they are going to kill you? And its in 40k universe everything is hostile.
Women = hostile
Dogs = hostile
Guardsmen = hostile
Civilian = hostile
everything else = hostile
The Tau are tree huggers in the best sense of the word. And they are peaceful which will be their down fall

The fleet...that was lost to the Tyranid invasion? And no, everyone is not hostile, as evidenced by the fact that the Tau have numerous friendly and allied races. And i don't see how tree hugging comes into play here, seeing as these "tree huggers" practice a very predatory style of warfare, and have no qualms about genocide when they deem it necessary.

well unfortunately for the Tau the 40k universe's story is built 100% on war, I cant imagine the imperium is going to be to happy if the Tau start influencing their more important worlds. I can picture the Inquisition as labeling it as heresy.

im a SM player but i have to say nids

Zarynterk wrote:however with The Imperiums ability to completely nuke planets from orbit... the Nid threat can be dealt with.

Cheers!

However with the nids ability to spawn a bioship capable of BITING the ENTIRE MIDDLE of a space marine BATTLE BARGE out and omnomming it...... The nuke the can be dealt with

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:Im not really familiar with Imperium lore but if they can nuke planets like that then why the hell havnt they done it already?

They have. Many times

Mr Nobody wrote:Everyone seems frown upon the tau's piecful approach, but it works very well on imperium worlds in the fluff. If you can conquer a world without a shot fired, then you have saved alot of energy and resources.

Ding ding, we have a winner. In most books I've read, the Tau like to pull the whole cultural conquest thing. This lack of direct violence actually makes them semi-tolerated on worlds. See the Ciaphas Cain Omnibus for details.

The war best won is the war not fought.. or something like that

Tyranic Marta wrote:The war best won is the war not fought.. or something like that

pfff, I'm afraid you're in the wrong galaxy sir.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Tyranic Marta wrote:The war best won is the war not fought.. or something like that

pfff, I'm afraid you're in the wrong galaxy sir.

Damn straight. While humans aren't the most peaceful of species at the best of times, I'm reasonably certain that their current state of mind re: inter-species relations is largely because the major races of the galaxy want to torture mankind, eat mankind, reduce mankind to constituent atoms, batter mankind with rusty metal, feed off of mankind's pain, warp mankind into fleshy-portals or use mankind as a giant meat-shield. It's not a friendly galaxy, and diplomacy is not going to fly with the Orks, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Chaos, Necrons, Tyranids, Enslavers, Umbra etc.

A hand extended in friendship is less likely to be shaken as it is to be torn off and used as decoration/lunch/a club.

Not during the great crusade, there were a lot more friendly species at that time, but the imperium killed all of them. We could have tried playing nice, but the emperor said no.

and he was right to.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:and he was right to.

I don't know...

Don't get me wrong there are some alien folk but there are also many that can single handedly destroy the Imperium. Tragically "Kill-all-Xenos-on-sight" remains the best policy in 40K.

115th Cadian Shock Troops wrote:

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:Im not really familiar with Imperium lore but if they can nuke planets like that then why the hell havnt they done it already?

They have. Many times

Not to mention you only want to nuke so many planets. You need to leave some to inhabit, based on how valuable and tactically friendly the planet is they will either vaporize the surface (based on infection, cult size, invasion size, etc.) or continue to have skirmishes to recapture the planet. Like Macreage, the space marines faught the 'nids until the last because of how valuable it was.

Imperium wins in the end. In last resort the Adeptus Terra would gather as many supplies and people as they could and collapse in towards Terra. If mankind pulled every person they could conscript and gave them a lasgun they'd outnumber even the nids 2 to 1.

Draglide12 wrote:Imperium wins in the end. In last resort the Adeptus Terra would gather as many supplies and people as they could and collapse in towards Terra. If mankind pulled every person they could conscript and gave them a lasgun they'd outnumber even the nids 2 to 1.

But what happens when Voidy breaks free and there's no Emprah to put him down again? What happens to the Imperium then? When the Machine God rises and Terra as we know it, and the Mechanium tears itself apart from the inside.

he runs out of batteries....... duh

This question can't be answered just by comparing the capabilities of each race against the others. In large part, it comes down to who fights who when (mostly, who bears the brunt of the 'nids).

For example, The Tau have a very good chance coming out on top, but only if the Tyranids have to deal with the Imperium and Orks first; and even then only if those races wear down rather than feed the 'nids. However, given that the invasion is coming from the galactic east, right in Tau country, they will probably be overwhelmed before the Tyranids can be bled sufficiently.

So, here's my list in least to greatest ascending order of likely survival/winning:

Eldar- These guys are dying out, no way around it. Best case scenario is they all die and form a new god to kill slaanesh, but even then they're all already dead, so no victory there.

Dark Eldar - Interestingly enough, these guys will probably end up helping whoever takes on the Tyranids, because if the 'nids win, there's no-one to harvest suffering from. But, even if they stay in their hidey hole, there's not enough of them, and they don't have enough conquest oriented ambitions to win an all out slugfest.

Tau- As in the above example, the Tau have alot going for them, but the order of conquest really isn't looking good for them. They're powerful, technological, and oddly tolerant in a good way for 40k, but just not big enough to take the 'nids first, by themselves.

Necrons- I dunno, the whole immortal deal seems to favor them, but I think numbers will be an issue. To 'win' they'd have to take out everyone else, and their bodies can only reassemble so many times before they're done for good. And no reproduction; once a necron soul is removed from its body, its gone for good, and no making new reinforcements (discounting pariahs, but they couldn't make enough of them fast enough to win).

Orks- Organization is what kills these guys, of course. Might have the power to win, but there's no way any one warboss could assemble all the orks and keep them on the right Waaaagghhhh path for long enough. As is, these guys are unfortunately just alot of really tough, powerful bio-material for the 'nids to add to themselves. They'll last a while, but can't win.

Chaos- Immortal daemons + space marines is great, but Tyranid 'shadow in the warp' or whatever its called seems to trump chaos power. I don't know exactly how the psychic vs. calming would play out, but I imagine the 'nids have the potential to seal up the Eye, win without much of a fight.


And its down to Imperium vs Tyranids. This depends entirely upon the actions of the Imperium. Their xenophobia, while justified, is also going to hurt them. They're so entrenched in it that they can't even bring themselves to manipulate the alien races into helping them beat the 'nids and then betray them later. It's impossible, but if they could get over that it would be a sure win in the Imperiums favor. They still have a chance though. If I recall correctly, in the Ultramarines novels at some point a fringe Inquisitor Lord says that if like 1/3 - 1/2 of the human race were given lasguns and sent to the frontlines against the 'nids, they'd be able to stop the invasion. If that's true, the imperium has the manufacturing and logistical prowess to throw enough bodies into the fight to win, even if bureaucracy betrays them at points along the way.

Tyranids don't need much explaining; they're brutal, they've got a good galaxy destroying track record, they're virtually numberless, and they turn every scrap of enemy and friendly dead back into more soldiers unless they're completely wiped out.

I think in the end, all things considered, Imperium has to win, albeit with a caveat that what's left isn't going to be much. Maybe Ultramar, the Solar System, some other strong pockets, and not much else left. And most of the galaxy is going to be either scoured dry by the 'nids, or virus bombed into oblivion by the Imperium, or both; so they won't be able to recolonize either. Kind of a Pyhrric victory, but win for humanity nonetheless.

No one will win. GW will always have us constantly debating and guessing. There will be no end, unless GW itself goes under (Doubt that though). GW itself doesn't know the end of the story of 40K, and they don't care if they don't.

No story = No business

The imperium would definitely have to make all the right choices because you are rught, thay are to stubborn to ally with other races. Unfortunately though, while they leave the others to slaughter the 'nids grow unimaginably large. They were already huge and not to mention all the genetic traits they will gain from the cnsuming of all of those species. Yes its possible but slim, IoM needs to get their act together cuz really everything you just listed seems to be happening already.

I vote Orks, for reasons already stated.
Also,
In the Ork Codex it states that Gork and Mork are powerhouses, and even the other Gods (Chaos) can't defeat them in battle.
And theres TONS of Orks (Space probe, etc. prooves this)
But Necrons are a close second, even tryranids can't exist without any biological life to consume, IIRC they have super fast metabolisms.
This thread is very interesting, great points everyone!

ok every one is outing the eldar which is a mistake. If you guys haven't noticed eldar and dark eldy are the only thing capable of web way travel and they can live there add that to thier technoligy and age and their not going any were. Eldar have ability to live any were through their smarts. So ya we will run a way to fight another day, and spell words wrong. Also the Rhana Dandra also known as the death to all space faring races will kill everything so I say the New Slann will take their claim once more. But eldar will be reborn through Ynnead the death god. In conlusion Eldar for the win


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also it is believed that very few nids have ben sent over to our galixy so no humans cant controle the them

Dark Eldar will hide. If the tyranids wi and ship out though, the dark eldar die. They need pain to survive. The craftworlds might be able tohide but will likely be destroyed. The Harlequins don't have to worry about their sould being consumed by slaanesh so they have the best chance out of all eldar. The nids aren't actuall that much of a threat as youa ll give them credit for. If any species, ork, imperium, necrons, tau, etc.... hit the three hive fleets in space the nids can no longer reproduce and lose all cohesion.

I totally agree with Eldrad. Eldar have survived this long, why come to an end? AND they have the Black Library that is very secret and no one can find. Then there is the laughing God and Ynnead, The Death God of the Eldar. Also, while the eldar hide in the webway they can grow stronger and develop more technology that will allow them to repair the webway and travel to a distant Universe.

Every body stands a good chance. With each race surviving in their own way. This argument shall always continue despite it's ridiculisnoss. Also I agree with Draglide's idea about the nids being destroyed. Although Nids can never truly die off.

I don't have to like these races to know that somehow, they will all survive.

The eldar don't develop new technology though, they've become utterly stagnant in the wake of Slaneesh's birth; most importantly they don't have the capability to repair the webway

For Eldar, reproduction is a problem (specifically a Slaanesh-related problem). So the key to their survival would be the downfall of Slaanesh.

That said, it doesn't look good for non-Tyranid in the galaxy, so my vote is for Tyranids. Necrons can't die as such, but will eventually suffer a loss of mind, the infinite-long death, unless someone manages to destroy wherever they teleport to.

The Empire of Man will likely not outlast the Eldar race, though mankind will probably be alive longer than the Eldar.

either orks- since they are extremely hard to stop from reproducing (you try and burn 50,000 orks in 24 hours)
or 'nids- same reason.
AND WHO THE VOTED TAU?!

Same people who voted eldar.

Eldy Savior thanks for the help here but the nids do come from a different galixy so they wouldnt realy be destroyed and think about it they evolve to the desine of other races. They are a pretty scary.

Orks are a very good fuel for the 'nids. One dies and drops a bunch of spores. That then grow into an ork in a day. Kryptman saved the IoM with his gamble but the 'nids will return very very large in fleet size and size per 'nid. Thats why I think 'nids will win.

They evolve according to who the consume.

also yes they can repair the web way infact they perfected it also they make habitable planets im pritty sure that they will be just fine. Also web way = all the wraith bone ever needed. There for they get more craft worlds which equals more food and more eldar. It also says in Lexicanum that the eldar have grown 10-100 times in size since the fall ended. I think they will be just fine.

The future looks bright for the eldar.

for Dark Eldar. Their numbers are actually on the rise unllike craftworld.

Could the Tyranids enter the webway if they find an open portal? Because that could really hurt the eldar and dark eldar.

No ones done it yet. Webway has excellent security! However, if they could yes, that would be the end of non-tyranid life as we know it.

When the Necrons awake, they will purge the universe of all life as they did in the past. The other races are too busy fighting each other to put up enough of a fight to preserve life itself against those deathless warriors.

So? Tyranids ended all life in a galaxy and found a way to travel to others.

It matters not, the Necrons will steamroll any single race that opposes them.

Sometimes I doubt The Necrons really have the numbers to oppose any race.

Necrons have at least a couple hundred million guys, IIRC

Even if that is true it means they are the least numerous race of all the codex races (counting Space Marines as Humans here). Even DE have more than that.

Is there any size of the necron force we know of?
No?

Maybe those undead just rise again and again....

Or there is more sleeping under our oh-so watchful gaze without us noticing them.
Necrons did conquer the Galaxy once. They are awakening actually and so far I don't see any successful resistance.
The IoM was able to destroy one of their planet-sized creations, but maybe they got more than one?

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Even if that is true it means they are the least numerous race of all the codex races (counting Space Marines as Humans here). Even DE have more than that.

Where does it say the DE are expanding? And is there some sort of population poll I don't know about?

Emperors Faithful wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Even if that is true it means they are the least numerous race of all the codex races (counting Space Marines as Humans here). Even DE have more than that.

Where does it say the DE are expanding? And is there some sort of population poll I don't know about?

Why sir, Codex: DE would be the place to go for all your DE needs.

I'm enjoying it: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/331642.page

I don't think the tyranids would be able to make into the webway....I hope they don't....That would be bad.....very bad....Even if they did the Laughing God resides in the webway and so does the Black Library:

A:Tyranids FINALLY make it into the webway.
B:Laughing god pops into the Black Library for a qiuck visit.
C:Finds some Tyranid Ultra Grade solvent.
D:Guess what happens next.

I'd have to put my money on the Tyranids.

In the Tyranid 4th Codex, Inquisitor Kryptman makes alot of speculations about the origin of the Tyranid. One is that what the galaxy has faced so far i but a small percentage of the full force, of what may yet be to come.

The current strategy, that involves total destruction of worlds in order to deny the Tyranids their biomass is also said to be untenable in long terms;

Page 26 of the Tyranid 4th Codex, Kryptmans reports says:
"... It is becoming apparent that such a strategy will in the long run prove too costly, for the Imperium does not have an endless number of worlds that can be sacrificed in duch a manner. With out worlds spread so thinly across the void, each one lost is irreplaceable. I submit that there are undoubtedly more Tyranid ships than there are worlds - there may in fact prove to be more hive fleets than there are worlds."

Furthermore, on page 27, reports has it that there are cases in which the Tyranids have even survived the total destruction of worlds.
In one case, Rippers had burrowed deep beneath the worlds surface and managed to survive the deadly bombing, and hence entered a state of hibernation.
Another case indicates a world being laid waste in such a degree that the surface had been turned to ashes, a Carnifex genus creature had survived the destruction of the world, and were in the midst of regenerating from it's wounds;

Page 27:
"... Though the beast was destroyed, Ariadne V is declared Perdita, for, if one such bio-form can survive, then how many more may go undetected?"

Page 27 - further down, Kryptman continues:
"... It is the belief of this Collective that the hive fleets with which we have made contact represent not discrete and seperate units, but fundamentally coordinated elements of a whole. It is our belief we have yet to make contact with this whole."

Page 27, Kryptman concludes;
"It is the belief of Strategic Intelligence Collective 827/II that current mobilisation levels will need to be increased a minimum of 500% if we are to even stand a chance of slowing the advance of the Hive Mind. Every able-bodied man and woman on every world in Ultima Segmentum, Segmentum Pacificus and Segmentum Solar will need to be drafted into the Imperial Guard if we are to have any chance of repelling this foe.
- End of Quote.

My own conclusion:
Of course, all is speculations and theories. But if they are to prove to be true, and if every intelligent race does not joins forces, all worlds that holds Biomass may show to be nothing but a great feast for the Tendrils of the Hive Mind.
- God-Emperor, help us all!


Thanks for reading!
Bill

'Nids are the only choice. C'mon Tyranid-Fearers we're catching up!

Im going to go for Dark Eldar, sitting safe in Commoragh, only coming out to raid for slaves and souls. Of course if the tyranids are the last race standing outside the webway and they dont have souls then....

I guess it depends on how you define "last Standing". I interpreted as "Who's going to win" but if you just see it as who's going to survive then yes I suppose DE are just as good as anyone. Same with Humans, Orks and Necrons though.

A topic such as this, i believe, can be argued from here and till the 41st millenium. The only real fact we've got, is the fiction written in the codex'es, and so forth, and of which is mostly biased. Although there ARE races which seems much, much more likely to pull through than others.

If we really were to figure out who beats who, in the long run, there's alot more to debate than sheer numbers. As 40k is as much about demons, spiritual energies, psychic abilities and the alike, we'd need, at least, to know what kinds of impact those would have on EACH OTHER - like, say, if the God's and Demons duke'd it out, in a final battle!

I beileve every race, or army if you perfeer, has each their spines, which could be broken and make them vanish. And there's always theories to follow. We got alot of facts, but just as much speculations about each race.

Eldars:
For example, i read earlier today, that the Eldars are much more than just psychic abilities and starcannons. A source actually stated, that the Eldar race, when their final hour approached, would not "die", but instead unite on a spiritual level, and thereby prevail. Maybe even become MUCH, MUCH stronger than we'd ever imagine..?
- Alone this, i feel, gives speculations about a race hardly anyone considers as an actual threat towards any of the other more numerous races out there.

Mankind:
Another example is speculations about the God-Emperor. Fact has it (and DO correct me on this one, am i wrong) that the Emperor protects the IoM's navy inside the warp from whatever demons and creatures lurks in there. If he was to perish, all warp-flighs would be nullified, and hence IoM struggles to keep his "living" remainders intact.
- Although, these facts stated, speculations actually has it, that he one day may come to live once again to lead to IoM to victory. Maybe in a complete spiritual or godly form, maybe in another body..?

The Warp & The Hive Mind:
A third source claimed, that the Hive Mind is made out of pure psychic energy, that resides deep within the warp, - the warp, which many understands as, not a paralel unverse or dimension as such, but the realm of souls (In other words; a fictional version of what we might know as "heaven".).
- NOW; if we stick to this warp for a second, which i personally feel has a LOT greater impact on everything that regards the 40k galaxy and the outfalls of any FINAL battles, than it really gets mention or credit for. This warp is without doubt a key factor to the entire universe, and we simply cannot ignore it in comparison to whatever "miniature you can assemble, paint and get a feel for"!
With that in mind; Would it be irrational, illogical, to persume that the Hive Mind, in fact, is no less than a god - maybe something even greater? We're, after all, looking at a psychic-energy monstrosity capable of controlling a near-endless number of beast-like creatures. We've even read reports about highly intelligent ones being under it's control, such as the Swarmlord, that one-handedly coordinated the assault (else mindlessly assault) against Ultramar, making every Tyranid alot more tactical, and hence resulting in the death of the whole 1st company of the Ultramarines, and nearly killed off their Chaptermaster.
- I am very tempted to believe, that such a "being" is more than capable of taking on the C'tans themselves, if the story ever came down to such.


My final point is this: The great mysteries of the 40k universe is more - and i mean ALOT MORE - than who's got the biggest guns and the baddest attitudes.

Hrm....seems to me that it would work like this:

The hive fleets that have come into our galaxy are the first wispy tendrils of the Tyranid presence. I can't see any living entity prevailing against them in the long run - not even Orks - while Orks multiply via spores, Tyranids leave planets barren of even an atmosphere - meaning that planet by planet, orks would be consumed.

The Dark Eldar are a dying race; their pirate raids to gain prisoners are to sustain their souls such that the big bad SHE doesn't get them. With no life left in the galaxy to steal essence and sustenance from, the Dark Eldar are done.

That leaves Necrons - whom the Tyranids avoid utterly. Necrons, who went to sleep after their Gods consumed virtually all life in the galaxy and went into withdrawal to wait for life to replenish so that they could do it again.

I should think that at the end of it all, Tyranids and Necrons will be left, and it will be up to the Necrons to decide if they want to exterminate the Tyranids or not.

Well, after they eat everything they would leave and eat the next galaxy.

Leaving only a bunch of sleepy necrons.

Orks will win.

if enough orks believe something is real, it will be real. all the other races exist because enough orks wanted something to fight besides eachother. eventually, they will get bored with what they have, and dream up an even more powerful foe. but in the end, GREEN IS BEST!

Dashofpepper wrote:I should think that at the end of it all, Tyranids and Necrons will be left, and it will be up to the Necrons to decide if they want to exterminate the Tyranids or not.

Even if the Necrons wanted to exterminate the Tyranids, do they actually have the capability to do so? Although terrible and ancient, they are but the remants of a long dead legion. I can imagine that if the Hive Mind thought it necessary then the sheer weight of numbers would tell against the Necron, even if there was minimal biomass to be gained.

Nothing in this thread has even moved my choice away from 'nids an inch. They have conquered galaxies before what is different about this one? All of the races have their heads up their with all of their grudges and religious restrictions and stuff. They need to realise that the 'nids will eat all of their pretty books if they dont start mobilizing now. Not to mention all of the "good" forces teaming up ((like; Eldar, IoM, Tau.) I thought this list would be longer ) would get rid of all the current thorns in their sides (Like; Orks, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Chaos maybe.)

Unfortunately none of this will happen and the universe will be a barren lifeless star cluster.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Nothing in this thread has even moved my choice away from 'nids an inch. They have conquered galaxies before what is different about this one? All of the races have their heads up their with all of their grudges and religious restrictions and stuff.

Whether or not they actually have conquered any other galaxies is merely conjecture. There is even the view that the Tyranids fled their old galaxy from an even greater threat.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Nothing in this thread has even moved my choice away from 'nids an inch. They have conquered galaxies before what is different about this one? All of the races have their heads up their with all of their grudges and religious restrictions and stuff.

Whether or not they actually have conquered any other galaxies is merely conjecture. There is even the view that the Tyranids fled their old galaxy from an even greater threat.

Which is, of course, yet another speculation! Besides, every description of the Tyranids in any codex'es hardly indicate anything of the alike...

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:I should think that at the end of it all, Tyranids and Necrons will be left, and it will be up to the Necrons to decide if they want to exterminate the Tyranids or not.

Even if the Necrons wanted to exterminate the Tyranids, do they actually have the capability to do so? Although terrible and ancient, they are but the remants of a long dead legion. I can imagine that if the Hive Mind thought it necessary then the sheer weight of numbers would tell against the Necron, even if there was minimal biomass to be gained.

I honestly think that even if it came down to those being the only two things left in the universe they'd still avoid each-other like a plague. Tyranids lose all biomass directed at Necrons in a battle as A) Necrons cannot be broken down or eaten due to the Phase Out and the fact that they're made of Necrodermis and B) Guass weaponry would leave no biomass behind for the Tyranids to consume after the battle. Necrons also lose out because they gain no souls from a Tyranid defeat and would potentially permanently lose to many in the proses. These sorts of battle will Always end up lose-lose which is why they have yet to fight each-other to date, not counting when the Necrons were BFF's with the BA.

Azure wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:I should think that at the end of it all, Tyranids and Necrons will be left, and it will be up to the Necrons to decide if they want to exterminate the Tyranids or not.

Even if the Necrons wanted to exterminate the Tyranids, do they actually have the capability to do so? Although terrible and ancient, they are but the remants of a long dead legion. I can imagine that if the Hive Mind thought it necessary then the sheer weight of numbers would tell against the Necron, even if there was minimal biomass to be gained.

I honestly think that even if it came down to those being the only two things left in the universe they'd still avoid each-other like a plague. Tyranids lose all biomass directed at Necrons in a battle as A) Necrons cannot be broken down or eaten due to the Phase Out and the fact that they're made of Necrodermis and B) Guass weaponry would leave no biomass behind for the Tyranids to consume after the battle. Necrons also lose out because they gain no souls from a Tyranid defeat and would potentially permanently lose to many in the proses. These sorts of battle will Always end up lose-lose which is why they have yet to fight each-other to date, not counting when the Necrons were BFF's with the BA.

I thought the main point regarding the Necrons was the destruction of life, not necessarily souls. (Why then turn fertile jungles into wasteland if there are no souls to be gained?)

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Azure wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:I should think that at the end of it all, Tyranids and Necrons will be left, and it will be up to the Necrons to decide if they want to exterminate the Tyranids or not.

Even if the Necrons wanted to exterminate the Tyranids, do they actually have the capability to do so? Although terrible and ancient, they are but the remants of a long dead legion. I can imagine that if the Hive Mind thought it necessary then the sheer weight of numbers would tell against the Necron, even if there was minimal biomass to be gained.

I honestly think that even if it came down to those being the only two things left in the universe they'd still avoid each-other like a plague. Tyranids lose all biomass directed at Necrons in a battle as A) Necrons cannot be broken down or eaten due to the Phase Out and the fact that they're made of Necrodermis and B) Guass weaponry would leave no biomass behind for the Tyranids to consume after the battle. Necrons also lose out because they gain no souls from a Tyranid defeat and would potentially permanently lose to many in the proses. These sorts of battle will Always end up lose-lose which is why they have yet to fight each-other to date, not counting when the Necrons were BFF's with the BA.

I thought the main point regarding the Necrons was the destruction of life, not necessarily souls. (Why then turn fertile jungles into wasteland if there are no souls to be gained?)

The C'tan are in it for the souls, Necrons will destroy everything out of hate for life.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Azure wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:I should think that at the end of it all, Tyranids and Necrons will be left, and it will be up to the Necrons to decide if they want to exterminate the Tyranids or not.

Even if the Necrons wanted to exterminate the Tyranids, do they actually have the capability to do so? Although terrible and ancient, they are but the remants of a long dead legion. I can imagine that if the Hive Mind thought it necessary then the sheer weight of numbers would tell against the Necron, even if there was minimal biomass to be gained.

I honestly think that even if it came down to those being the only two things left in the universe they'd still avoid each-other like a plague. Tyranids lose all biomass directed at Necrons in a battle as A) Necrons cannot be broken down or eaten due to the Phase Out and the fact that they're made of Necrodermis and B) Guass weaponry would leave no biomass behind for the Tyranids to consume after the battle. Necrons also lose out because they gain no souls from a Tyranid defeat and would potentially permanently lose to many in the proses. These sorts of battle will Always end up lose-lose which is why they have yet to fight each-other to date, not counting when the Necrons were BFF's with the BA.

I thought the main point regarding the Necrons was the destruction of life, not necessarily souls. (Why then turn fertile jungles into wasteland if there are no souls to be gained?)

Necrons destroy all life on their specific Tomb Worlds as a way to keep it just that, a Tomb World. A planet devoid of all life even down to the bacteria. Now concerning the souls we know the C'tan want to eat the souls but after that it diverges abit as many sources say the Necrons destroy out of a hatred for life but other sources say that the Necrons are unfeeling and soulless machines devoid of any semblance of personality (save for the Lords). In Dead Men Walking the Necrons are mentioned to be taking slaves for a while and just outright ignoring civilians as they walk past and at other times blasting anything that has the barest spark of life, simply for being alive. I've always followed that the Necrons kill for the souls until a planet is under their control then take slaves as a way to guarantee future souls, seems to make the most sense.

Azure wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Azure wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:I should think that at the end of it all, Tyranids and Necrons will be left, and it will be up to the Necrons to decide if they want to exterminate the Tyranids or not.

Even if the Necrons wanted to exterminate the Tyranids, do they actually have the capability to do so? Although terrible and ancient, they are but the remants of a long dead legion. I can imagine that if the Hive Mind thought it necessary then the sheer weight of numbers would tell against the Necron, even if there was minimal biomass to be gained.

I honestly think that even if it came down to those being the only two things left in the universe they'd still avoid each-other like a plague. Tyranids lose all biomass directed at Necrons in a battle as A) Necrons cannot be broken down or eaten due to the Phase Out and the fact that they're made of Necrodermis and B) Guass weaponry would leave no biomass behind for the Tyranids to consume after the battle. Necrons also lose out because they gain no souls from a Tyranid defeat and would potentially permanently lose to many in the proses. These sorts of battle will Always end up lose-lose which is why they have yet to fight each-other to date, not counting when the Necrons were BFF's with the BA.

I thought the main point regarding the Necrons was the destruction of life, not necessarily souls. (Why then turn fertile jungles into wasteland if there are no souls to be gained?)

Necrons destroy all life on their specific Tomb Worlds as a way to keep it just that, a Tomb World. A planet devoid of all life even down to the bacteria. Now concerning the souls we know the C'tan want to eat the souls but after that it diverges abit as many sources say the Necrons destroy out of a hatred for life but other sources say that the Necrons are unfeeling and soulless machines devoid of any semblance of personality (save for the Lords). In Dead Men Walking the Necrons are mentioned to be taking slaves for a while and just outright ignoring civilians as they walk past and at other times blasting anything that has the barest spark of life, simply for being alive. I've always followed that the Necrons kill for the souls until a planet is under their control then take slaves as a way to guarantee future souls, seems to make the most sense.

I thought the c'tan eat stars or am i thinking of something else? :\

They do, but that's in the non-Necrodermis encased form. In their true form they span many many miles and feed off of stars for millennium. In this encased form they prefer the finer delicacy of people.

See this is why I love necrons: robots that run on pure, unleaded hate

In regards to the 'Nids V. Necrons-

If the C'tan prefer soul sandwiches to suns, then wouldn't the Necrons intervene against the Tyranids?
I suppose the Chaos Gods would also agree.
Unless the Shadow in The Warp om nom nom them first.

Necrons and the C'tan are vulnerable to psychics, and the Tyranid hive mind is pure psychic power. If the hive fleets can be breed more zoanthropes and other psychic creatures, then they can defeat the necron armies.

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:
Im not really familiar with Imperium lore but if they can nuke planets like that then why the hell havnt they done it already?

Cause imperium need lots of planets for there overpoplated poplaution and need materials and recurit worlds etc.

The imperiam would give up hope and join chaos thats why i voted imperiam

.

WARORK93 wrote:I will now quote a famous line from "The Grapes of Wrath"

*Ahem* "But we keep a'comin'. We're the people that live. They can't wipe us out; they can't lick us. We'll go on forever, Pa, 'cause we're the people." -Ma Joad

The human spirit, collectively, is an unbreakable thing, as long as there are humans, there will be an Imperium, however small or however large.

I cast my vote for mankind...

Whether or not they actually have conquered any other galaxies is merely conjecture. There is even the view that the Tyranids fled their old galaxy from an even greater threat.

O.O

Thats the first I've heard of that, I'd be scared to see what would scare the hivemind...

That is a good point; if you look at old night, some pockets of humanity survived, or even thrived.

erm it sais in the nids codex that its not warp based so im not sure how effective it would be

Emperors Faithful wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Nothing in this thread has even moved my choice away from 'nids an inch. They have conquered galaxies before what is different about this one? All of the races have their heads up their with all of their grudges and religious restrictions and stuff.

Whether or not they actually have conquered any other galaxies is merely conjecture. There is even the view that the Tyranids fled their old galaxy from an even greater threat.

yes thats true, thats just the one i have heard the most, also the one that I read in the codex.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Nothing in this thread has even moved my choice away from 'nids an inch. They have conquered galaxies before what is different about this one? All of the races have their heads up their with all of their grudges and religious restrictions and stuff.

Whether or not they actually have conquered any other galaxies is merely conjecture. There is even the view that the Tyranids fled their old galaxy from an even greater threat.

yes thats true, thats just the one i have heard the most, also the one that I read in the codex.

Insolence!

J/k - i'm becoming more curious on this matter. In exactly which codex does it state anything of the alike? (Edition? Page?)

I've read both the 4th and the 5th edition Tyranid Codex recently due to this claim got me curious, and i haven't come across anything even CLOSE to the alikes. Far from it! What i DID come across, however, was the speculations about whether or not the current Hive Fleets is but a lesser fraction of the true numbers of the "real fleet".

(As far as i know, the 5th edition explained, that the Leviathan Hive Fleet hasn't been stopped yet, and even more fleets has appeared since the 4th edition codex. Even Hive Fleet Kraken has made another appearence.)


Well, just curious!

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Nothing in this thread has even moved my choice away from 'nids an inch. They have conquered galaxies before what is different about this one? All of the races have their heads up their with all of their grudges and religious restrictions and stuff.

Whether or not they actually have conquered any other galaxies is merely conjecture. There is even the view that the Tyranids fled their old galaxy from an even greater threat.

yes thats true, thats just the one i have heard the most, also the one that I read in the codex.

I don't like that speculation simply because it doesn't make sense. The Tyranids, by their nature, are driven to consume. They haven't retreated in any fluff. They've just attacked until they were dead, or the enemy was consumed. The closest to retreat has been to either lure enemies into a trap, or go dormant for centuries (after being defeated, that is), and re-awaken when things have cooled down and they can attack undefended worlds. It stems from the opening few paragraphs of the Tyranid codex fluff section, where they are trying to build the mystery behind the race, but that origin just doesn't make sense considering all of the rest of the fluff.

Actually, in fairness to the Tau, they have got OUTRAGEOUSLY advanced technology, so they have a pretty good chance of survival. Pus, they're not as dogmatic as the Imperium or the Eldar.


Tyranids would still win though!

Squigsquasher wrote:Actually, in fairness to the Tau, they have got OUTRAGEOUSLY advanced technology, so they have a pretty good chance of survival. Pus, they're not as dogmatic as the Imperium or the Eldar.


Tyranids would still win though!

tyranids or tau? one device can defend all humanity from the likes of this- The cattlegrid. take the hint IoM.

The Imperium shall endure. Have faith in the Emperor, anything less is heresy. Please report any doubts you may to the Inquisition.

Gridge wrote:The Imperium shall endure. Have faith in the Emperor, anything less is heresy. Please report any doubts you may to the Inquisition.

You say this while having a profile pic of the ALPHA LEGION.

cattlegrid...

I'm giving it to the Imperium. They're the most powerful organized entity in the galaxy. The Tau are going to go barking up the wrong tree pretty soon, and it's been proven on multiple occasions that the Imperium is capable of using psychic and biological warfare to foil a Tyranid invasion. The Eldar are indeed living on borrowed time and the Dark Eldar are a mere nuisance to all other major players on the galactic stage. The Orks will never unite, and the Necrons aren't able to reproduce themselves limitlessly.

That said, I give Necrons the silver medal. If the Imperium ever collapsed for any reasons, the Necrons would wipe the galaxy clean of life. The C'tan are in it for the souls, true, but what is a soul in the 40k mythos? It's psychic energy, to an extent. What's the hive mind but a soul shared by countless bodies? Couldn't the C'tan feed off the hive mind as it "bleeds" from the permanent death of many of its constituents?

There's also the Star Child and Ynnead prophecies to consider. If either happens, the galaxy is wiped clean(I would assume either newborn god would bring its powers to bear against the Hive Mind and C'tan as well as Chaos) and remnants of the humans, Tau or Eldar would inherit a purified galaxy.

Klawz wrote:

Gridge wrote:The Imperium shall endure. Have faith in the Emperor, anything less is heresy. Please report any doubts you may to the Inquisition.

You say this while having a profile pic of the ALPHA LEGION.

Any member of the legion would tell you just how loyal they are. There's was a great and tragic sacrifice...plus I really like that book and pic.

Billinator wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Nothing in this thread has even moved my choice away from 'nids an inch. They have conquered galaxies before what is different about this one? All of the races have their heads up their with all of their grudges and religious restrictions and stuff.

Whether or not they actually have conquered any other galaxies is merely conjecture. There is even the view that the Tyranids fled their old galaxy from an even greater threat.

yes thats true, thats just the one i have heard the most, also the one that I read in the codex.

Insolence!

J/k - i'm becoming more curious on this matter. In exactly which codex does it state anything of the alike? (Edition? Page?)

I've read both the 4th and the 5th edition Tyranid Codex recently due to this claim got me curious, and i haven't come across anything even CLOSE to the alikes. Far from it! What i DID come across, however, was the speculations about whether or not the current Hive Fleets is but a lesser fraction of the true numbers of the "real fleet".

(As far as i know, the 5th edition explained, that the Leviathan Hive Fleet hasn't been stopped yet, and even more fleets has appeared since the 4th edition codex. Even Hive Fleet Kraken has made another appearence.)


Well, just curious!

I think we can be assured that the Norn Queens will continue to work tirelessly towards more and more perfectly adapted for killing the inhabitants of this galaxy just as they have in others before ours. Simply put, over the coming centuries we may be out-evolved to the point of extinction.

Magos Biologis Alder Garrick, Codex: Tyranids (4th Edition), page 5

ANYWAYS.....

Adept Garrick doesn't know that they conquered other galaxies any better than Warboss Ghazghkull.

And nobody knows they haven't, its a theory like anything else. Just like I said I read it in the codex...

Orks, Chaos and Nids will prevail in some form or other.

The Empire would most likely prevail but in a tinier state. I can't imagine that the Nids will get enough "manpower" to destroy every single planet.

The Necrons will thankfully finally die from their own lameness. Unfortunately j/k.

Dark Eldar are too insignificant to care about. Eldar are said to die out, which is a shame.

I'm inclined to believe that if either the necrons or the nids were able to wipe the galaxy clean, whilst picking their teeth with the remains of the rest, that the chaos gods would largely subside into nothingness. With no psychic energy (as nids have no warp counterpart and necrons have no soul either) then they would have nothing to worship them or contribute any emotional/psychic energy to their strength, ergo, extinction.
DE would turn into husks with no pain power to restore them, ?Light? eldar are waining, so maybe flee like in LOTR to another galaxy perhaps. Everyone else would be food for either necrons or nids.

Reanimator wrote:I'm inclined to believe that if either the necrons or the nids were able to wipe the galaxy clean, whilst picking their teeth with the remains of the rest, that the chaos gods would largely subside into nothingness. With no psychic energy (as nids have no warp counterpart and necrons have no soul either) then they would have nothing to worship them or contribute any emotional/psychic energy to their strength, ergo, extinction.
DE would turn into husks with no pain power to restore them, ?Light? eldar are waining, so maybe flee like in LOTR to another galaxy perhaps. Everyone else would be food for either necrons or nids.

Chaos will not die out. There is the warp and it's off-limits for Nids and Necrons. And in the warp there a whole worlds of followers. In the Liber Chaotica they made mentions of daemon worlds and even some were normal human people live. Would they lose much of their power if the rest of the galaxy was destroyed? Sure. Would they fade into nothingness? No.

That said, I consider Necrons and Nids always being mentioned as being the definitve winners (especially damn necrons, got shoehorned into the fluff with their stupid c'tan and made super-threatening-awesome-lollololol for the kiddies) is superlame.

Mit Gas wrote:

Reanimator wrote:I'm inclined to believe that if either the necrons or the nids were able to wipe the galaxy clean, whilst picking their teeth with the remains of the rest, that the chaos gods would largely subside into nothingness. With no psychic energy (as nids have no warp counterpart and necrons have no soul either) then they would have nothing to worship them or contribute any emotional/psychic energy to their strength, ergo, extinction.
DE would turn into husks with no pain power to restore them, ?Light? eldar are waining, so maybe flee like in LOTR to another galaxy perhaps. Everyone else would be food for either necrons or nids.

Chaos will not die out. There is the warp and it's off-limits for Nids and Necrons. And in the warp there a whole worlds of followers. In the Liber Chaotica they made mentions of daemon worlds and even some were normal human people live. Would they lose much of their power if the rest of the galaxy was destroyed? Sure. Would they fade into nothingness? No.

That said, I consider Necrons and Nids always being mentioned as being the definitve winners (especially damn necrons, got shoehorned into the fluff with their stupid c'tan and made super-threatening-awesome-lollololol for the kiddies) is superlame.

At least they toned down Tyranids by making them tied with orks.

Mr Nobody wrote:

Mit Gas wrote:

Reanimator wrote:I'm inclined to believe that if either the necrons or the nids were able to wipe the galaxy clean, whilst picking their teeth with the remains of the rest, that the chaos gods would largely subside into nothingness. With no psychic energy (as nids have no warp counterpart and necrons have no soul either) then they would have nothing to worship them or contribute any emotional/psychic energy to their strength, ergo, extinction.
DE would turn into husks with no pain power to restore them, ?Light? eldar are waining, so maybe flee like in LOTR to another galaxy perhaps. Everyone else would be food for either necrons or nids.

Chaos will not die out. There is the warp and it's off-limits for Nids and Necrons. And in the warp there a whole worlds of followers. In the Liber Chaotica they made mentions of daemon worlds and even some were normal human people live. Would they lose much of their power if the rest of the galaxy was destroyed? Sure. Would they fade into nothingness? No.

That said, I consider Necrons and Nids always being mentioned as being the definitve winners (especially damn necrons, got shoehorned into the fluff with their stupid c'tan and made super-threatening-awesome-lollololol for the kiddies) is superlame.

At least they toned down Tyranids by making them tied with orks.

Errr...
What? They haven't done anything of the sort.

Klawz wrote:

Mr Nobody wrote:

Mit Gas wrote:

Reanimator wrote:I'm inclined to believe that if either the necrons or the nids were able to wipe the galaxy clean, whilst picking their teeth with the remains of the rest, that the chaos gods would largely subside into nothingness. With no psychic energy (as nids have no warp counterpart and necrons have no soul either) then they would have nothing to worship them or contribute any emotional/psychic energy to their strength, ergo, extinction.
DE would turn into husks with no pain power to restore them, ?Light? eldar are waining, so maybe flee like in LOTR to another galaxy perhaps. Everyone else would be food for either necrons or nids.

Chaos will not die out. There is the warp and it's off-limits for Nids and Necrons. And in the warp there a whole worlds of followers. In the Liber Chaotica they made mentions of daemon worlds and even some were normal human people live. Would they lose much of their power if the rest of the galaxy was destroyed? Sure. Would they fade into nothingness? No.

That said, I consider Necrons and Nids always being mentioned as being the definitve winners (especially damn necrons, got shoehorned into the fluff with their stupid c'tan and made super-threatening-awesome-lollololol for the kiddies) is superlame.

At least they toned down Tyranids by making them tied with orks.

Errr...
What? They haven't done anything of the sort.

In the 4th edition codex, the Tyranids were diverted against the Orks, now they're in constant turmoil.

The orks would be victorious, if only for the fact that the tyranids are not as infinite as them... they may be able to cleanse a planet of its atmosphere, but they have to take the planet first, and that would not happen. Also, the orks may not be quite as 'smart' as mr. hive mind, but they have superior technology, and their biology is superior... at least for now.
2nd place; necrons... but tomb wolrds can be destroyed. the fact remains that you need a place to reconstruct. just kill their tomb worlds.
Honorary mention; Dark Eldar; they are untouchable; if there is life in the galaxy, their is dark Eldar. They would live in what amounts to peaceful existance with the orks, taking slaves and never dying.

baconlord44 wrote:The orks would be victorious, if only for the fact that the tyranids are not as infinite as them... they may be able to cleanse a planet of its atmosphere, but they have to take the planet first, and that would not happen. Also, the orks may not be quite as 'smart' as mr. hive mind, but they have superior technology, and their biology is superior... at least for now.

lexicanum wrote:On the planet's surface, the small Tyranid swarm cunningly adapted its tactics in order to slowly but surely gather more bio-resources and increase their numbers. When Skarfang, the Ork's leader, was killed by Lictors, the Orks on Ghorala collapsed into infighting and became easy prey for the Tyranids. Each tribe was isolated and destroyed in quick succession until, within weeks, all the Orks on Ghorala had been killed. The bio-resources of the planet were turned into new bio-ships and the Tyranid infestation quickly grew again and spread to nearby Ork worlds.

See? They have no problem defeating Orks.

hmmm. You may have a point mit gas, I had not considered the reckoning of daemon worlds vs nids... what sort (if any) of biomass does that yield? Perhaps the eye of terror, maelstrom etc would hide worlds from the nid/necron advance and preserve some element of chaos, albeit in a drastically weakenend way. I'd be interested to see a campaign or narrative construction around the chaos/nid battle.

Regards orks vs nids, i can see the arguments for both sides gaining in stength due to their battles with each other. You can see how (possibly) elements of imperial forces have had genetic impacts on nid forces, eg tyrant guard from terminators etc, but what new nid lifeforms would result from the ork/nid conflict? I remain to see whether gw will expand on this given the fluff regards the diversion/distraction tactics with orks used by the inquisition to delay the nid adnvance. Personally i'd like to see nids start turning green when they get angry....

It's a little saddening, that The Warp doesn't get too many mentions in any arguments. I believe it has a much larger influence than it gets credit for.

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:Ok so assuming the 40k Universe dukes it out non-stop like they do; at the end of the day what race do you think will be left? Or at least vasty Dominant.
I left Chaos Daemons out of it because...being immortal is cheating
I cant imagine the Imperium (Space Marines, IG, etc) going on forever and i feel like when the imperium goes CSM wont be far behind (assuming they havnt been wiped first)

In the end i can imagine a never ending cycle of war between Nids and Orks. Considering Orks can grow and live in nearly every environment, grow very quikly, and combined with the fact its nearly impossible (short of Exterminatus) to rid a planet of Ork spores i think they can just keep bringing the pace of constant warfare other races wont be able to survive against forever.

Then you have Nids, driven only by the need to feed, but im curious as to what happens when all the fleets (Leviathan, Behemoth, Kraken) Finally all meet? Are they all under the same Hive Mind or will it become a cannibal frenzy anyway? I figure the fleet will reach such a critical mass it wont have any other choice.

War innevitably has a winner. Who's it gonna be Dakka?

Side topic: What race do you think would get to the emperor first? Nids eating whatever is left would be a horrifying conclusion to the human race, so would a warboss siting in his throne

Have you read this from black library ? http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/Xenology.html in the bit where they analyse orkoid physiology the servitor talks about how it'd be quite easy to produce a biological weapon which eats away at ork skin / spores. He describes it as a kind of pesticide since the orks are essentially fungus, but then it'd basically be heresy to attempt to create new technology . I could imagine a more technologically advanced race such as the tau creating a weapon like that, or potentially even the necrons as the orks are speculated to have been created by the old ones alongside the eldar to battle the necrontyr.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In the end though I think it comes down to which 40k superpower stirs from there proverbial slumber. I.e the emperor being reborn, Ynnead being born killing slaanesh and allowing the eldar to be resurrected through the warp, the remaining necron gods awakening and allying together, the tau either evolving physically (the xenology book states that by eating the flesh of a psyker a kroot gains psychic powers imagine that but to a larger scale i.e if generations of kroot fed upon the galaxy's finest and adapted to new forms) or even technologically by inventing some kind of super weapon.

I firmly rule chaos out because when the end of days finally comes there wouldn't really be any chaos left to fuel the gods. Im thinking back to a quote from the chaos codex that goes something like "Tzeentch does not desire an end to plotting for that would be the end of ambition and in turn the end of the lord of ambition." you can sort of apply the same to the other gods as well. Personally Id love a giant rhana dhandra esq battle where tau eldar and humanity teams up (temporarily at least) to fight off chaos, the orks, the necrons and the tyranids at some point.

I believe in a sort of tie between Orks, Nids, Necrons (maybe!) and Daemons.

I believe that Orks will be there in the end, simply because they fight and reproduce like crazy, so they're going to be in the fight for a long time, if not one of the "victors".

Nids because as long as there's biomass, there's gonna be Nids. For every person saying "Exterminatus", to completely wipe out the nids, you'd have to pretty much simultaneously exterminate every single hive in existence. Even though it might be possible, it would be pretty damn hard to pull off.

Necrons because when their bodies are burned to a nice pile of dust, they're phased to the nearest tomb world where they just get rebuilt. Like the nids, you'd have to wipe out every single tomb world simultaneously, and if I'm not totally wrong, you'd have to wipe out the C'taan as well. That one might be little hard to pull off as well, especially for the Imperium, since it's speculated that the Void Dragon sleeps within Mars.

And Daemons, simply because.. How the Hell would you eliminate the Warp? It's not a physical place as much as a mindrape to anybody who thinks about it.
The reason I haven't mentioned CSM is that I think they'd be so mutated and twisted in the end that they couldn't count as even remotely Marines.

I would say Imperium, and here is why:
-On a year account they lose around 100 planets, but colonize 1000 more. So there is 500-600 billion star in our galaxy, each with around 9 - 13 planets. That's a lot of planets to colonize...
-And you haven't get in account that other races are fighting themselves. And Imperium has been known to make alliances in several occasions with the Eldar and the Tau.
-It's only the matter of time before Imperium counter the threat of Necrons and Tyranids. They upgrade their existing technology daily, and I am sure that in crisis times they will use new means of technology.
-Now, in the end of 41'st millennium the Imperium is weak. But they are slowly getting their strength back as in last 100 years more worlds have been regain and few have been lost.
-And none is taking in account that the Emperor will return one day. He said that himself, and with him his Primarchs will return and then god help the enemies of Mankind.

But on the realistic side, none race wil get the advantage. Imperium may conquer 90% of the galaxy (70% is already owned) but they will never truly defeat anyone. There is just to much planets in the galaxy to have army everywhere. And I imagine that even if Imperium conquer Tau Empire, surviving Tau will fled somewhere else. And in the end our galaxy will crush into Androida and then we will have interesting set of views...

I think the imperium would win as the vast quantity of theme, not as much as other races but they also have decent technology which is usefull for dealling with xenos races, however if the imperium were succesful then chaos would be as well due to the fact that man is coruptible and there would always be heretics.

The empreror is dying, the imperium doesnt have the abilities to ressurect him, he will die before they get this tech, and so the emperium is screwed cause they wont have the astro thingie that lets them navigate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And as much as i hate to say it that means CSM's are pretty much toast because they wont have any new recruits

Brother Coa wrote:I would say Imperium, and here is why:
-On a year account they lose around 100 planets, but colonize 1000 more. So there is 500-600 billion star in our galaxy, each with around 9 - 13 planets. That's a lot of planets to colonize...
-And you haven't get in account that other races are fighting themselves. And Imperium has been known to make alliances in several occasions with the Eldar and the Tau.
-It's only the matter of time before Imperium counter the threat of Necrons and Tyranids. They upgrade their existing technology daily, and I am sure that in crisis times they will use new means of technology.
-Now, in the end of 41'st millennium the Imperium is weak. But they are slowly getting their strength back as in last 100 years more worlds have been regain and few have been lost.
-And none is taking in account that the Emperor will return one day. He said that himself, and with him his Primarchs will return and then god help the enemies of Mankind.

But on the realistic side, none race wil get the advantage. Imperium may conquer 90% of the galaxy (70% is already owned) but they will never truly defeat anyone. There is just to much planets in the galaxy to have army everywhere. And I imagine that even if Imperium conquer Tau Empire, surviving Tau will fled somewhere else. And in the end our galaxy will crush into Androida and then we will have interesting set of views...

The Imperium has more or less stopped colonizing new worlds, only taking back ones that were captured by Chaos.

Orks. They're from one side of the galaxy to the other in abundance and it will be impossible to ever wipe them out completely. Even if the Tyranids consume the galaxy, the Orks and their mobile eco-systems will gradually re-establish themselves and be WAAAGH!ing in no time.

I think the Dark Eldar will eventually survive in their realm as they grow new dark eldar in tubes (exept trueborn of course) but the nids will consume the known galaxy, and the dark eldar will open webway portals in other galaxy's

No...remove the orks from the poll...remove them now!

ORKS WANT an enemy, its like food to them...please don't deny them their fun...

Its not about winning... ITS ABOUT FIGHTI"N WAAAGH

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I'm surprised that Tyranid are not having a wide lead. The Imperium burned 200 worlds just to give them a fighting chance against this unstoppable force of nature.

So they sacrificed the smallest fraction of a single percent of their worlds (and I believe part of that includes sacrificing most of a single legion of space marines; so less than a tenth of one percent of their space marines (who in all number less than a billionth of a percent of their military) too), in order to cripple a hive fleet, of which there are less than a half dozen currently in Imperial space? The Imperium is not some thinly stretched skein crippled by its own inertia: it's a monolithic entity that dwarfs even the Tyranids, and thrives despite localized failures, absurdities, and its own bureaucratic inertia. Yes, a guard regiment, or world, or several dozen at that, may suffer from all this, but they all make up only the tiniest, most insignificant fragment of the Imperium's power.


That said, the Dark Eldar are the only race that can't actually be threatened in any capacity by any other, as nothing can attack them if they don't choose to allow them (in the most derp part of the new DE codex, Vect lures several space marine chapters into Commoragh to attack his enemies; despite being outnumbered tens of thousands to one by the most advanced race in the galaxy, they retrieve the captured ship, obliterate the noble houses they landed on, and teleport away; I suppose it could be put down to Vect manipulating the situation (I recall a number of defenses "mysteriously" shut down during the battle, allowing their escape), but it's still rage worthy that even in their own codex they're getting trashed by those mutants (whose numbers are so small as to be entirely insignificant in the overall scheme of things; oh wow they can number up to one million that's... less than a billionth of one percent of the Imperium's military population...)). Only other Eldar even have access to the webway, and only the DE have the power to actively manipulate its geography (if you can call it that). Even were all life outside the webway eaten/obliterated by necrons, the Dark Eldar are unassailable, and could just as easily turn on themselves if they ran out of slaves (or perhaps more likely, would actively seek to prevent the obliteration of other life, simply to preserve their sport, perhaps even a breeding and reintroduction program (after all, it's surely more interesting to watch/hunt ragtag bands of survivors on post apocalyptic worlds than see them all die out to a plodding, repetitive machine or swarm of magical space locusts...)), and can always just grow more DE in tubes, so it's not like they'll ever run out of victims...

The way I see it for mankind is that the Emperor will die..... it is an unavoidable event. The IoM will lose the ability to navigate the warp and will be pushed back on every front, maybe to near total defeat. Then as promised the emperor will return and lead massive crusades and defeat the armies closing in on the core planets. With their main military might defeated the IoM will steamroll the now undefended planets held by the enemies of mankind.

@Sir Pseudonymous:
Comorragh isn't unassailable. ( Again Salamanders, rescuing a stolen relic from there ).
Plus cloning has some drawbacks too.

@xXSir MontyXx:
The Emperor is immortal, and since GW put this duty on his shoulders : to be the one and only protection from the demon,
to "move" the background to his 'death' would cause the IoM to turn into a bunch of new EoT's.

Immortal can mean his body can die but his soul live on. He may come back in a new form or a different body or something of the sort.

1hadhq wrote:@Sir Pseudonymous:
Comorragh isn't unassailable. ( Again Salamanders, rescuing a stolen relic from there ).
Plus cloning has some drawbacks too.

Vect opened the gate, and essentially showed them where to go. Three whole chapters attacked Commoragh through the gate Vect jammed open, lost every ship but the one they came to rescue, suffered heavy casualties, and then teleported away with the rescued ship.

There's also no mentioned side effects to their cloning tubes, aside from the products being considered inferior to "True" Dark Eldar. If your only purpose for using them was to create thralls to massacre in entertaining ways, because Magical Space Locusts ate all your toys, I think they'd serve more than well enough.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

1hadhq wrote:@Sir Pseudonymous:
Comorragh isn't unassailable. ( Again Salamanders, rescuing a stolen relic from there ).
Plus cloning has some drawbacks too.

Vect opened the gate, and essentially showed them where to go. Three whole chapters attacked Commoragh through the gate Vect jammed open, lost every ship but the one they came to rescue, suffered heavy casualties, and then teleported away with the rescued ship.

Thats all well and nice, still I was referring to the last Sally book, where they entered commaragh without vect doing anything.
So 2 times gone there.

But the first one fits the DE fluff and is IMO one of the better ideas of GW lately.
The second one is BL fluff and uses the transports of the DE to enter. I doubt the unassailability of any gate.

@xXSir MontyXx:
No. Open the flood gates ( ie Emperor distracted with beeing reborn ) and the time you have to close it again is really short.

Klawz wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:I would say Imperium, and here is why:
-On a year account they lose around 100 planets, but colonize 1000 more. So there is 500-600 billion star in our galaxy, each with around 9 - 13 planets. That's a lot of planets to colonize...
-And you haven't get in account that other races are fighting themselves. And Imperium has been known to make alliances in several occasions with the Eldar and the Tau.
-It's only the matter of time before Imperium counter the threat of Necrons and Tyranids. They upgrade their existing technology daily, and I am sure that in crisis times they will use new means of technology.
-Now, in the end of 41'st millennium the Imperium is weak. But they are slowly getting their strength back as in last 100 years more worlds have been regain and few have been lost.
-And none is taking in account that the Emperor will return one day. He said that himself, and with him his Primarchs will return and then god help the enemies of Mankind.

But on the realistic side, none race wil get the advantage. Imperium may conquer 90% of the galaxy (70% is already owned) but they will never truly defeat anyone. There is just to much planets in the galaxy to have army everywhere. And I imagine that even if Imperium conquer Tau Empire, surviving Tau will fled somewhere else. And in the end our galaxy will crush into Androida and then we will have interesting set of views...

The Imperium has more or less stopped colonizing new worlds, only taking back ones that were captured by Chaos.

It's not true, there is still colonization going on... The prodd is in Kaurava, after the war IG colonized Kaurava II and turned it into an Hive world. And Imperium is always need more resources. And what a better way than to colonize new world and take the resources.

Orks being designed for war, and survivor race...high chances to them BUT!

if the Tyranid codex (cant remember wich one..) says that the Tyranids eat entire galaxies...

@ Mawhawk;
I voted Tyranid and all, but the Tyranid codex says the same thing most do. That the race in the codex will eventually prevail and come out on top. Codexes are definitely a fun read but when being compared to other races fluff-wise, the codex you have will always glorify the race its about.

I think dark eldar will be the last one standing for these reasons
1. Dark eldar produce faster than eldar, because the majority of them are born in tubes.
2. The webway protects them pretty damn well, and harmful sections of the webway are closed off.
3. A dark eldar can comeback from the dead by giving part of his soul to a haemonculi.

If the Tyrnids engulf the galaxy, dark eldar hide in Commagh and steal random 'nids and torture them.

The Nids would kill everything and orks would be drawn to the wars against the Nids where the Nids would absorb the orks before consuming the galaxy and buggering off while the necrons go back to sleep as all of their soulfood is gone.

corpsesarefun wrote:The Nids would kill everything and orks would be drawn to the wars against the Nids where the Nids would absorb the orks before consuming the galaxy and buggering off while the necrons go back to sleep as all of their soulfood is gone.

Sounds accurate to me

It is simple the eldar would be the winners in the end why because if you kill them then they have a new god that not only makes more of them he also is able to kill the eldars biggest rival Slaanesh. So the Ultimate victores are the eldar.


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Also the C-tan arnt that grate they could barly fight off Cypher a mear chaos marien

It's funny how many people say Tyranids, when the Tyranid codex itself basically just proclaims "and Hive Fleet X was annihilated at heavy cost to the opposing fleet [which comprised only the tiniest and most insignificant fragment of the respective race's military machine]." A single space marine chapter (the Imperium has one thousand of those, and they're outnumbered by Guard millions to one, remember) took out a Hive Fleet, suffering only moderate casualties. And then took out another one, with only minor reinforcements. A minor expeditionary force from the craftworlds hunted down one trapped behind some warpstorms and destroyed it. A ramshackle flotilla of conscripted freighters led by warships from a couple of Imperial worlds wiped out yet another. In all honesty, they make actual locusts look dangerous, in the grand scheme of things.

Orks are similar: they might cause some damage, but they live for the sake of fighting. When the warboss uniting them dies, they collapse in on themselves and destroy any accomplishment they'd made, and it would only take a single radical Inquisitor to enact the fungicide idea whatever Magos it was came up with...

And why none thinks that Imperium would dominate all?

Because the Imperium has A LOT of enimies and multiple fronts to fight on, and actually alot of people do...

The Imperium has a handful of weak enemies.

Chaos is split between beings trapped in another dimension, the occasionally petty heretic sect that gets torched by the Inquisition with barely a passing glance, and the Traitor Legions, whose numbers make the loyalists look vast, and the loyalists themselves are outnumbered by the Guard by many millions to one. By all accounts there may well be more Titans than there are space marines, and certainly more Titans than there are dreadnoughts or terminator suits, and there are even fewer landraiders than either of those. The Traitor Legions are also trapped in the Eye of Terror, behind the heaviest fortifications in the Imperium.

The Craftworld Eldar don't seek the destruction of the Imperium, and for the most part share the same enemies, the Exodites are barbarians in a self-inflicted stone age, and the Dark Eldar, despite being the only faction who could conceivably bring down the Imperium, have no desire to do so, as they're happy just sitting around Commoragh, occasionally taking a world here or there for slaves (and the destruction of the Imperium would mean fewer slaves, and fewer entertaining events to watch).

The Tyranid's own codex is little more than a long a string of "And Hive Fleet X was annihilated at heavy cost to the tiny, insignificant fleet that opposed it."

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:A single space marine chapter (the Imperium has one thousand of those, and they're outnumbered by Guard millions to one, remember) took out a Hive Fleet, suffering only moderate casualties. And then took out another one, with only minor reinforcements. A minor expeditionary force from the craftworlds hunted down one trapped behind some warpstorms and destroyed it. A ramshackle flotilla of conscripted freighters led by warships from a couple of Imperial worlds wiped out yet another.

So, yeah, Tyranids are straight out of the "credible threats" category, at least as long as there remains so much as a cardboard cutout with a lasgun standing in their way.

Orks are highly fragmented, and have nothing but numbers on their side. They can't be a credible threat to the Imperium either, especially considering it would only take a single radical inquisitor with some techpriests to implement the anti-ork fungicide solution, which would permanently eliminate them from Imperial space.

The Tau are insignificant. The "makes space marines look relevant" kind of insignificant. They might have fancy toys, but they're stuck in their little corner of the galaxy, and wouldn't be able to withstand a push from the Imperium. The only thing keeping them alive is the fact that they're too insignificant to bother sending more than a token force to deal with (a token force which still has them overmatched, mind you). Even they can deal with Tyranid splinter fleets.

The necrons are the only faction to pose a credible threat, and even they can be dealt with when their tomb worlds are cracked open by Imperial weapons. Considering how slow they are to wake, the Imperium has more than enough time to scour them from the galaxy before they become a real threat.

I think the Imperium will be the last one standing.
That is if the Emperor is reborn and the Primarchs return,then the Galaxy will be reclaimed and all will be peachy.

I believe the Imperium of Man shall emerge victorious, for a few reasons.

Ultimately, the Tyranids are the largest threat to the Imperium, as the powers of the Warp have been ignored for this poll.

1. While Necrons are deathless, their number is finite. While their numbers never diminish, they cannot grow. Tyranids, Humans, Orks, Tau all can over come this. True, they take casualties, but the new members produced will grow exponentially, untill they vastly outnumber the Necrons. Necrons and Tyranids I feel may be constantly at an impass, but I don't see this conflict significantly affecting the outcome of the war.

2. Orks, while indominitable, would only rally in limited groups. When their population reaches a point, civil war erupts, and this ultimately leaves them vulnerable. Only Waaagh's would prove a real threat, but I don't know why Orks would bother plundering a world taken over by Tyranids. Teef, perhaps, but little else.

3. Chaos Space Marines? I doubt they could be truly erradicated, as their traitorous hides always find a way of self preservation. They could fight for some time, but eventually retreat into the Eye of Terror would be the end result.

4. The Eldar, Tau, and Humans share common interests, and share common sense. When the Tyranid threat becomes more obvious, it is likely that these races would ally and combine their forces. This would significantly increase their chances of survival.

5. There is also Technology to consider. All three of these races pooling resources could result in truly awesome firepower, combined with psykers and teleportation capabilities, would grant maneuverability and flexibility that the Tyranids could not hope to match. Numbers are ultimately on their side, but without a means of keeping pace with this technology, that advantage will quickly dissapear.

6. After the Tyranid threat, I can't imagine the Imperium losing to the Eldar, or the Tau. Perhaps it would not even come to that, but if war did erupt between them, Humans would ultimately emerge victorious.

Benificent Emperor, you shall see your galaxy united once more!

All races have a decently fair chance of surviving. Might even go as far as saying that the 'nids don't count because they don't live in the galaxy. They are just going to eat and run. So that said I would have to say that the race that inhabits the universe that has the best chance of surviving is probably the imperium.

The reason why people dont think the IoM will win is because the god emperor is deing and when he goes that web way gate that goes to tera that no one human knows were it is is gona pop open letting out a title wave of dark eldy and chaos and thier gona do what the vikings did to the romans.


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Although they do have a very good chance of fighting off the other races

Chaos would definitely outlast the Imperium. Maybe not Chaos Marines, but the forces of Chaos would stay, because they aren't kill-able men, they are gods, daemons, and represent the dark side of every human. That will never be gone, for even when humans are killed, the Chaos gods will find others to taint, and destroy.

That said, I think Tyranids would kill everything, leave, and then the necrons would rule over the universe... while Chaos schemes and seeks knew people to corrupt.

What we must realize about chaos is that there could very well be beings in other universes that are corruptible. They might not even care about this universe as much as we think they do.

Yeah like the story is only focused in Milky Way Galaxy. What about other galaxies?

It can only be the Imperium of Man that succeeds.

The Emperor Protects.

Im torn between necron/tyranids due to the mystery behind their true numbers and strength


Dan

I'm saying Orks and Nids due to how Orks work (stronger as they get fightier, every one killed releases X number of spores etc.) and how Nids create more (each Ork killed = more biomass) but also Khornate Chaos.

The amount of bloodshed that leads up to this most epic fight is likely to be huge, and we all know that Khorne feeds off this stuff like a fat kid feeds off cake. It's therefore likely that Khorne will grow in power enough to probably destroy his siblings and devour their power (assuming that's how they roll) and then empower his followers thusly; and with Cadia probably consumed by then, the eye will be open for daemons to pour forth from.

That's how i'd see a potentially everlasting conflict, with each side only gaining strength from the other's presence (plus they're all melee oriented, so it'd be super-killy to boot).

D.Smith wrote:Im torn between necron/tyranids due to the mystery behind their true numbers and strength


Dan

We don't even know the true number and strength of the Human Imperium. And we know less about other races. In fact, the point is that we don't know enough about everyone to claim the winner in the end.

Brother Coa wrote:

D.Smith wrote:Im torn between necron/tyranids due to the mystery behind their true numbers and strength


Dan

We don't even know the true number and strength of the Human Imperium. And we know less about other races. In fact, the point is that we don't know enough about everyone to claim the winner in the end.

So true!

If we really think about it the only true winner could ever be chaos, because as of yet noone has figured out how to kill a god

(god emperor of man excluded cause as everyone with an Meq codex know horus ended that particular god quite nicely, its just a matter of time)

Tyranic Marta wrote:If we really think about it the only true winner could ever be chaos, because as of yet noone has figured out how to kill a god

(god emperor of man excluded cause as everyone with an Meq codex know horus ended that particular god quite nicely, its just a matter of time)

Oh really?...
What about Eldar? They have gods to, how to kill them?
And Orks have gods to, none say that Gork and Mork don't exist? Maybe they fight Chaos gods to?
What about Necrons and the C'tan, C'tan is a god to...
Maybe even Tyranids have some god to fight Chaos gods?

I would say that Chaos gods will be very busy even if universe came to an end. And EoM maybe dead in the flash, but he is quite powerful in soul. Maybe he will became as powerful as Chaos gods when he die, who knows?

Chaos feeds off the war and various other wrong-doings of intelligent life. Without this fuel... this energy the Chaos gods gain from their mortal followers. They would lose their primary hold on the material realm of existence.
How I put their control into perspective is this; imagine the universe as a huge piece of paper (or something else flat), then imagine a similar sized piece of paper right above it. The distance between the two fluctuating in various areas due to the random occurrences such as the eye of terror and various warp storms. Now, each intelligent creature that fall's to the worship of chaos makes a infinitesimally small dot on this plane that represents the universe. These conduits of mortals minds located in their actual planet/star-cluster ect. However it is not just a dot but a connection between the two planes, a conduit through which the gods can assert their will. This one dot however has very, very small influence on the material realm. This is why they spread their influence to others. This one small dot/conduit pools together as more followers in this area are obtained. The conduit getting ever wider with more influence. This allows massive amounts of the chaos gods whim to be delivered to our plain of existence. (this is where exterminatus comes in). The eye of terror is a perfect example of this, where the consciousness of Chaos has gotten so great it has broken through consciousness and into even the visible spectrum.

This is just how I view the 40k universe though.....

Fair enough, however, I believe that if all of the gods eventually duke it out at the end of time then khorne has to win, he can ignore psykic and magical manifestations so no eldar tricks and his is the ultimate god of battle, as the battle gets feicer he gets more powerful, the only reason tzeench can kick his but is because he knows the future is the weaver of the great game etc, you cant concievably trick or beat tzeenth by either conventional or other methods, this is the only reason khorne cant beat him, as for the other chaos gods, nurgle simply diseases khornes followers or sommat and slaanesh converts em / his minions can befuddle the deamons senses and kill them that way, anyhoo none of the other "gods" know the tricks of the 4 chaos gods and their ploys in the game the four chaos gods play they have come to understand each other to a degree that they are perfectly equal, and if they work together then they are unstoppable as they cover every concievable concept of warfare and can overwelm their enemies with superiour numbers knowlege and power

and as for khorne, well as the fighting escalates he would eventually become more powerful than the other three chaos gods and would annihilate them, ie all gods dead (including other factions) bar khorne and his minions would sweep across the galaxy and claim it for chaos because they grow more powerful as he does, ie indefinte power


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my logic is undefeatable

Tyranic Marta wrote:Fair enough, however, I believe that if all of the gods eventually duke it out at the end of time then khorne has to win, he can ignore psykic and magical manifestations so no eldar tricks and his is the ultimate god of battle, as the battle gets feicer he gets more powerful, the only reason tzeench can kick his but is because he knows the future is the weaver of the great game etc, you cant concievably trick or beat tzeenth by either conventional or other methods, this is the only reason khorne cant beat him, as for the other chaos gods, nurgle simply diseases khornes followers or sommat and slaanesh converts em / his minions can befuddle the deamons senses and kill them that way, anyhoo none of the other "gods" know the tricks of the 4 chaos gods and their ploys in the game the four chaos gods play they have come to understand each other to a degree that they are perfectly equal, and if they work together then they are unstoppable as they cover every concievable concept of warfare and can overwelm their enemies with superiour numbers knowlege and power

and as for khorne, well as the fighting escalates he would eventually become more powerful than the other three chaos gods and would annihilate them, ie all gods dead (including other factions) bar khorne and his minions would sweep across the galaxy and claim it for chaos because they grow more powerful as he does, ie indefinte power


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my logic is undefeatable

I will defeat it:
"Ah yes, CHAOS GODS!!!
The immortal beings allegedly waiting in Warp realm.
We have dismissed that claim."

Tyranids and Necrons.

that's for sure. The first for the moltitude and unstoppable hunger and the second for not being an interesting meal for the first one.

Wow, I'm surprised how subtly mentioned the Rhana Dandra is.

The story involves both the legions of Chaos and the Eldar. And has been foreseen by many Eldar Farseers. It is the final battle between Chaos and the Eldar, in a universe where all the other races are extinct, and the future of the universe will be decided. Battle will be called by Fuegan Ra, and all remaining Eldar will fight, led by the Phoenix Lords. Fuegan himself will be the last one to fall, and thus the Eldar God Ynnean will be born from the souls of all the fallen (Imperium, Tau, every other race) and will destroy the Chaos Gods.

So, I voted Eldar.

I also remember reading somewhere that the Imperium is supposed to be the last race to fall before the Eldar, though that is just speculation.

If there is anything that can throw a wrench in the constantly turning gears of time it is free will and the random events that occur. Though many meet their destinies trying to stop it from happening.....

Ailaros wrote:I hate to say it, but I'm actually going with the imperium.

The reason is twofold. Firstly, they reproduce. This means that races like eldar and necron are ultimately doomed to failure.

Secondly, they exist to survive. Other races exist to fight and destroy. Orks, for example, reproduce quickly, but once they hit a certain critical mass, they automatically engulf themselves in civil war. Ultimately, they have their own population control. Likewise, while the tyranid are voracious, etc, everything is always fighting with each other in a malthusian nightmare. Plus, once the hive fleets are snuffed out, that's it. No more bugs.

The imperium as an institution may not last indefinitely, but humanity I think will be the ultimate victor. It has both the ability to reproduce and expand endlessly while simultaneously being able to organize themselves peacefully in order to multiply their power. The only reason they don't horribly dominate is because THE ENTIRE GALAXY is aligned against them.

As for tau, well, lol. No.

What he said. There's nothing to say that once the Imperium as a whole is destroyed a few Trillion humans won't go into hiding. Without tech priests looming over theor collective sholders, it won't be long before they actually have tech that can deal with their enemies.

The Tau might have a chance, but they don't have the tech ((Warp travel)) necessary to really run away effectively.

Allot of races are good at fighting or in the Eldar's case running away. But I think humanity has what it takes to out preform everyone at both.

Orks feed of disorder and battle and would be formittable in an all out slug fest.

Humans are weak but currently have more people and larger armies than anyone else. They are currently on the decline but have a long long way to go before they get knocked out and if they start developing new technology or if they lose half their empire they might run the remaining half better.

Necrons are not going to take over, last I checked they cannot reproduce and the Ctan are extremely limited. They can survive where no one else can but I dont see them taking over

Nids can eat and eat but tactically they are weak. I dont see them being able to adapt to this universerse's multitude of different warrior cults easily. It will take them a while if they were to do it

Craftworld eldar. Their coffin is made, they are at their own funeral

Dark Eldar. No one knows how many their really are. Their webway city exists in more than 3 dimensions and is large enough to contain multiple stars. Only their craftworld cousins know how to attack them and otherwise they can pillage and raid all they want. I dont see them conquering anything but they might never be snuffed out.

Tau. There are not enough tau yet. If their technology continues to improve and their number continue to rise maybe. But as of right now they need the dark eldar to come in and fight off the nids for them, it doesnt look promising.

Chaos needs large numbers of humans to propogate. I dont see them being a stand alone empire.

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:Side topic: What race do you think would get to the emperor first? Nids eating whatever is left would be a horrifying conclusion to the human race, so would a warboss siting in his throne

The easiest root to the emperor is from Chaos. Entire legions of Guard go traitor every year, SM chapters go missing and turn up on the other side all the time. All it takes is one to go traitor near earth and land relatively unnoticed.

The DE fluff says that nowhere is safe from DE pirates and even has a story about a DE attack on Mars to get a treasured artifact back. If they can hit Mars they can hit Earth. They can bring more forces to a planet than any defense force can fight if they think its worth it. But of course killing the emperor would empower Slaanesh, something the DE do not want. So it is unlikely that the DE would ever try to kill the emperor.

All it takes is one to go traitor near earth and land relatively unnoticed.

Adeptus Custodes would stop ANYONE from getting to the Emperor. It'd take far more than one traitor to make it to the Emperor. The only time I remember anybody making it to the Emperor was in that one Black Library book where the Emperor actually stops time to talk to the Inquisitor before the Inquisitor escapes, which kinda means he didn't even make it to the Emperor, and was chased away before he could.

Dashofpepper wrote:The Dark Eldar are a dying race; their pirate raids to gain prisoners are to sustain their souls such that the big bad SHE doesn't get them. With no life left in the galaxy to steal essence and sustenance from, the Dark Eldar are done.

The dark eldar are not a dying race. They simply are not as strong as they were before the fall. They continue to bread and grow stronger. They have vast factories to produce weapons and endless testubes to resurect dead eldar and to give birth to new eldar. They do not seem to be in any rush to repopulate or build a huge army for conquest but it is not written anywhere that they are dying. The new fluff is they are just interested in other things.


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grayspark wrote:

All it takes is one to go traitor near earth and land relatively unnoticed.

Adeptus Custodes would stop ANYONE from getting to the Emperor. It'd take far more than one traitor to make it to the Emperor. The only time I remember anybody making it to the Emperor was in that one Black Library book where the Emperor actually stops time to talk to the Inquisitor before the Inquisitor escapes, which kinda means he didn't even make it to the Emperor, and was chased away before he could.

surely one traitor could do no harm. But what if half the SM chapters went traitor. Dont say it could never happen. It happened before and it could happen again. The emperor is defended by men, and men are vunerable. If enough of them turn enmass it could be a problem (Just like it was when it happened 10,000 years ago)

Im not saying its very likely, but of all the things out there in the galaxy, I think thats the most likely way the emperor would fall and in his slumber the only real thing he worries about.


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xXSir MontyXx wrote:The way I see it for mankind is that the Emperor will die..... it is an unavoidable event. The IoM will lose the ability to navigate the warp and will be pushed back on every front, maybe to near total defeat. Then as promised the emperor will return and lead massive crusades and defeat the armies closing in on the core planets. With their main military might defeated the IoM will steamroll the now undefended planets held by the enemies of mankind.

last time I read the fluff it said that the god emperor of mankind ressurected from thousands of older prophets on earth. If he dies are we all sure that he wont come back again?


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1hadhq wrote:@Sir Pseudonymous:
Comorragh isn't unassailable. ( Again Salamanders, rescuing a stolen relic from there ).
Plus cloning has some drawbacks too.

@xXSir MontyXx:
The Emperor is immortal, and since GW put this duty on his shoulders : to be the one and only protection from the demon,
to "move" the background to his 'death' would cause the IoM to turn into a bunch of new EoT's.

the salamanders only knew where to warp to because there was a salamander psyker already inside comorragh. Without that to lock onto it is unassailable

Don't forget that Humanity has one advantage over all other - FAITH. Faithful solder never breaks down or fals back. It is shown trough history as it is working the same in 41'st millennium.

Don't forget that Humanity has one advantage over all other - FAITH. Faithful solder never breaks down or fals back. It is shown trough history as it is working the same in 41'st millennium.

Do not forget that Chaos also holds faith.

If the chaos gods made friends again, then they could do really nuts stuff, but thats not saying the CSM would survive...

Faith will not save you from being eaten by a carnifex, nor will it prevent a necron lord to steal your soul and play with it for eternity.

I think that if the IoM collapses, chaos gods will follow, because they are so closely linked to this race. Maybe Slaanesh could survive a little longer by preying on the DE, but I doubt the DE would last longer than the IoM...

In the end, it is very hard to extinguish a race. We are talking countless years to find every planet every evac ship........ it is a very tedious task.

I think that in the end there will be no victor. They will stil fight years and years, millennial and millennial... And then the universe will collapse and that will be it. All sentient life will perish, and with it the gods. So in the end, death is the real victor.

I'm slightly confused, why is reproduction necessary to take over the galaxy?

I understand that reasoning for Eldar, as once they're all in wraithguards etc after being slain, that's the end of them, but for Necrons? No new ones are created (Except Tomb Spyders, Scarabs Swarms, Tomb Stalkers and Pariahs), but whenever one dies it just gets repaired elsewhere. I don't see why the fact that they are outnumbered makes much of a difference, 'cos every battle is a moral victory for Necrons, even if they all phase out, because whilst the enemy has taken substantial losses, Necrons are as strong as ever.

Admittedly I'm slightly biased in favour of Necrons' ultimate victory, but the point stands.

EDIT: Also, that Eldar prophecy in the Necron Codex about the galaxy being cut off from the Warp, mankind enslaved and the C'Tans empire back in full force seems to be nipping at the universe's heels, somewhat.

EDIT 2 "Return of the Post-Script": Also, as far as I'm aware 'Nids can't digest Living Metal.

Scarey Nerd wrote:I'm slightly confused, why is reproduction necessary to take over the galaxy?

I understand that reasoning for Eldar, as once they're all in wraithguards etc after being slain, that's the end of them, but for Necrons? No new ones are created (Except Tomb Spyders, Scarabs Swarms, Tomb Stalkers and Pariahs), but whenever one dies it just gets repaired elsewhere. I don't see why the fact that they are outnumbered makes much of a difference, 'cos every battle is a moral victory for Necrons, even if they all phase out, because whilst the enemy has taken substantial losses, Necrons are as strong as ever.

Admittedly I'm slightly biased in favour of Necrons' ultimate victory, but the point stands.

EDIT: Also, that Eldar prophecy in the Necron Codex about the galaxy being cut off from the Warp, mankind enslaved and the C'Tans empire back in full force seems to be nipping at the universe's heels, somewhat.

EDIT 2 "Return of the Post-Script": Also, as far as I'm aware 'Nids can't digest Living Metal.

No I dont think they can, if they could they would eat the crust of planets as well. However they can eat anything on a necron planet that is living. (if there is anything)

Dark eldar are not cloned, they are born by artificial insemenation and procede to grow in a test tube.
Dark eldar could easily survive by hiding in the webway, and then lauching attacks to inflict pain and suffering.

'CRONS WIN but they have a flaw as pointy things (power stuff) kill them DEAD and the nids have stuff like that don't they ????

Ultrasmurf_no_REALY wrote:'CRONS WIN but they have a flaw as pointy things (power stuff) kill them DEAD and the nids have stuff like that don't they ????

In the board game, yes, but in fluff even a force weapon can't kill a Necron in one. Plus, as I stated, even if Tyranids killed an entire Necron Tomb World, as long as the Necrons took down one Gargoyle it was a victory.

Personally, I think Orks are gonna win, and Necrons going back into stasis.

Monster Rain wrote:The Imperium of Man will fully achieve it's Manifest Destiny of conquering the Galaxy.

Never happen. The Imperium is crumbling and its only a matter of time. Tau will die, as thy're too small. Eldar will eventually get wiped out by Slaanesh. Nids and Orks though, are another matter. They are both nigh-immpossible to stop. I think they will fight for so long and hard, however, that they'll wipe each other out.

Only two left are Necrons and Dark Eldar. Necrons are unstoppable because of the phaze out. However, I think if you drive them back far enough they won't have any where to phaze out to. Dark Eldar could just stay in the Webway for as long as it takes, then potentialy actually move to another galaxy, or wait for life to start again. It's also my belief if you stop doing what the Chaos Gods are, they phase out of existence. I.E stop war and bloodshed completely and Khorne would die.

That's my belief anyway

Urien_Rakarth wrote: It's also my belief if you stop doing what the Chaos Gods are, they phase out of existence. I.E stop war and bloodshed completely and Khorne would die.

That's my belief anyway

Good luck with that, seriously, what part of "It is the 41s milennium and there is only war." do you not understand?

I think when the great "Toilet Bowl" that is the 40k universe gets the big flush there will be Ork surfers screaming 'WAAAAAAAAGH' as they spin around the bowl into nothingness.

Yeah, I'm gona go with Nids here. they are the only race in the galaxy that is literally numberless, they can always make more and evolve more. How in the Emperors name do you stop an enemy like that? The only enemy with any sort of chance against them are the Necrons.

Swiftblade wrote:Yeah, I'm gona go with Nids here. they are the only race in the galaxy that is literally numberless, they can always make more and evolve more. How in the Emperors name do you stop an enemy like that? The only enemy with any sort of chance against them are the Necrons.

Aren't you, by process of elimination, saying that the Necrons will be the last race standing?

Gotta say csm because I play them, but tyranids might be the most likely to win, they've devoured galaxies before...

There will always be Orks...

NagothDaCleaver wrote:There will always be Orks...

+1

Yeah, I'm gona go with Nids here. they are the only race in the galaxy that is literally numberless, they can always make more and evolve more. How in the Emperors name do you stop an enemy like that? The only enemy with any sort of chance against them are the Necrons.

Not numberless, but definitely a lot.

There will always be Orks...

No

Swiftblade wrote:Yeah, I'm gona go with Nids here. they are the only race in the galaxy that is literally numberless, they can always make more

You mean, just like every other living thing can?

and evolve more.

Something sapient beings can do by thinking about a problem, and engineering a solution to it.

Ork Spore is almost impossible to remove from a planet. The more Orks you kill the more Orks will grow in that spot later.

from the Lexicanum:

The Lexicanum wrote:
Orks have not only survived, they have prospered and are more numerous than humanity. This at least is due in part to how they reproduce. Orks reproduce through the release of spores, which grow into a plant-like womb underground that nourishes the bodies of the various Orkoid species. This is the entire basis of the Orkoid ecosystem, producing first Squigs, then Snotlings who cultivate the Squigs and fungus, then Gretchin to build the settlements, and finally the Orks themselves. This means the Orks, where ever they go, will have an abundance of food, slaves and other resources, a moving ecosystem that supports them as they go on their Waaagh!s

This also makes it extremely difficult to rid a planet of Orks, even if the initial invasion is defeated. Orks release spores thought their lives, but release them particularly at the moment of death. Without a nearby population of Orks, the fungus will eventually start the Ork life cycle anew. Decades after weathering an Ork Waaagh! settlements on a planet can find themselves faced with an unexpected attack from Feral Ork tribes coming out of the wilderness.

So... as I said... There will always be Orks.

IMPERIUM FOR THE WIN!

C'mon man, it's gotta be the imperium. there the hero's, the good guys, they've gotta win. the emperor would be reborn sooner or later any way, then it's back to another crusade where every one get owned.

orks have got a good chance, and the nids. but would you rather live in a ork universe or a nids one? i mean really.


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IMPERIUM FOR THE WIN!

C'mon man, it's gotta be the imperium. there the hero's, the good guys, they've gotta win. the emperor would be reborn sooner or later any way, then it's back to another crusade where every one get owned.

orks have got a good chance, and the nids. but would you rather live in a ork universe or a nids one? i mean really.


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For NagothDaCleaver

yeah, but what if the orks got beat so bad, they started being harvested? then they would be able to get to new world and it would be game over.

Good guys certainly do not always win, especially in the 40k galaxy... nor is the Imperium of man that good. (for the galaxy not for man... obviously)

j-baass wrote:
For NagothDaCleaver

yeah, but what if the orks got beat so bad, they started being harvested? then they would be able to get to new world and it would be game over.

Harvested?
For crops?
By Maugan Ra? He is a Harvester
The Necrons? They have a Harvester

Ailaros wrote:I hate to say it, but I'm actually going with the imperium.

The reason is twofold. Firstly, they reproduce. This means that races like eldar and necron are ultimately doomed to failure.

Secondly, they exist to survive. Other races exist to fight and destroy. Orks, for example, reproduce quickly, but once they hit a certain critical mass, they automatically engulf themselves in civil war. Ultimately, they have their own population control. Likewise, while the tyranid are voracious, etc, everything is always fighting with each other in a malthusian nightmare. Plus, once the hive fleets are snuffed out, that's it. No more bugs.

The imperium as an institution may not last indefinitely, but humanity I think will be the ultimate victor. It has both the ability to reproduce and expand endlessly while simultaneously being able to organize themselves peacefully in order to multiply their power. The only reason they don't horribly dominate is because THE ENTIRE GALAXY is aligned against them.

As for tau, well, lol. No.

This.

NagothDaCleaver wrote:Ork Spore is almost impossible to remove from a planet. The more Orks you kill the more Orks will grow in that spot later.

from the Lexicanum:

The Lexicanum wrote:
Orks have not only survived, they have prospered and are more numerous than humanity. This at least is due in part to how they reproduce. Orks reproduce through the release of spores, which grow into a plant-like womb underground that nourishes the bodies of the various Orkoid species. This is the entire basis of the Orkoid ecosystem, producing first Squigs, then Snotlings who cultivate the Squigs and fungus, then Gretchin to build the settlements, and finally the Orks themselves. This means the Orks, where ever they go, will have an abundance of food, slaves and other resources, a moving ecosystem that supports them as they go on their Waaagh!s

This also makes it extremely difficult to rid a planet of Orks, even if the initial invasion is defeated. Orks release spores thought their lives, but release them particularly at the moment of death. Without a nearby population of Orks, the fungus will eventually start the Ork life cycle anew. Decades after weathering an Ork Waaagh! settlements on a planet can find themselves faced with an unexpected attack from Feral Ork tribes coming out of the wilderness.

So... as I said... There will always be Orks.

The only race known to effectively defeat the orks are the eldar who have developed the nightspinner to utterly destoy them and their spores.

Orkz baby, pure and simple.

What?! They are the heroes, the space marines are the poster boys there bound to win.
i meant anyone could cultivate them, the grot and stuff could be used for workers, and just not let spore start growing into orks.

'Orks release fungal spores, which grow into a plant-like womb underground that nourishes the bodies of the various Orkoid species. This is the entire basis of the Orkoid ecosystem, producing first Squigs, then Snotlings who cultivate the Squigs and the fungus they feed on, then Gretchin to build the settlements, and finally the Orks themselves.'

Taken from; http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Orks

Pretty sure that Necrons could take out orks, wouldn't be the first time they needed to wipe out life on planets down to the bacterial level.

j-baass wrote:What?! They are the heroes, the space marines are the poster boys there bound to win.

Well ever since the last Chaos Space marine codex, it seems Space Marines will switch sides (go renegade) at the drop of a hat... so they're not exactly the poster boys of perfection.

And as for Humanity, who are your "Heroes", they are a totally Xenophobic, totalitarian and Theocratic society that single handedly keeps the Chaos gods as powerful as they are.

Yes, we are human and they are human and any win for them is considered a win for us... the Imperium of man is by no means a "good" institution.

The one "good thing" humanity has done for the Galaxy is keeping the Tyranids from rolling right though it and devouring everything.
But then who know what kind of defenses we would have against galactic threats like the Tyranids and Necrons if all of the nonhostile Xenos races Mankind destroyed were still around to fight them... but I guess that's not what this thread is about so I digress.

Nids will eventualy consume the Galexcy like they have done to un known thousands before them. Then they will move onto the next galaxcy. So do they really count, thier more like a force of nature than concerurs.

The necrons would ofcourse be left as why would the tyranids eat metal? Doesn't taste good. I dont think the tyranids would manage to ravige every world however and sods law would mean there would mean some greenskins would be on it, or some orcs wondering around in a ship someonere.

Unlike other races who would eventualy die out from inbreeding, it only takes one orc to start the race again.

NagothDaCleaver wrote:

j-baass wrote:What?! They are the heroes, the space marines are the poster boys there bound to win.

Well ever since the last Chaos Space marine codex, it seems Space Marines will switch sides (go renegade) at the drop of a hat... so they're not exactly the poster boys of perfection.

And as for Humanity, who are your "Heroes", they are a totally Xenophobic, totalitarian and Theocratic society that single handedly keeps the Chaos gods as powerful as they are.

Yes, we are human and they are human and any win for them is considered a win for us... the Imperium of man is by no means a "good" institution.

The one "good thing" humanity has done for the Galaxy is keeping the Tyranids from rolling right though it and devouring everything.
But then who know what kind of defenses we would have against galactic threats like the Tyranids and Necrons if all of the nonhostile Xenos races Mankind destroyed were still around to fight them... but I guess that's not what this thread is about so I digress.

Ok, you might have me with that, there not the good guys. but i'm pretty sure if there was some epic ending, all the gamers would come and play the last battle for ownership of the galaxy i'm sure there would be so many space marines, so many people play them and it would be a fitting end to the story (if there ever was one). if the writers as well wrote an ending i'm sure it would have the imperium for the win. it's only a matter of time before the emperor comes back around anyway, i reckon the imperium could hold them off for long enough, and when he's back everything would change, the emperor and all the kick ass primarchs (not the dead ones of course) would come back and save the day!
i mean orks, nids and necrons are most likely to win, but with these sort of stories the under dogs win.

Tyranids. Because they eat everything. The only race that might stand a chance would be the necrons, cause they are metal. But aren't they limited in number? The tyranids could just overwhelm them and but them in a biological prison.

Eftz3 wrote:Tyranids. Because they eat everything. The only race that might stand a chance would be the necrons, cause they are metal. But aren't they limited in number? The tyranids could just overwhelm them and but them in a biological prison.

The limited in number thing is kind of up for debate.

At this point Necron lore is so sparse we don't know how many tomb worlds are active, how many are destroyed or ruined, or how many are left to wake up.

However, as said before, the Necrons have shown through Pariahs they can create a new line of Necrons. Maybe they're a little different but even if all the Warriors/Destroyers/Flayed Ones are destroyed you will still have the C'tan. I don't really remember one C'tan being completely eliminated by anything short of another C'tan or Old One. They can be killed but they don't stay that way.

I will always believe that in the end the Tyranids lose or move on and the Necrons just farm Orkz for food.

Everyone forgets tyranids need biomass if they use it all against the necrons they will only be able to send out pitiful gaunts, happened right in their codex aswell

You can release all the spores you want, it'll just give the Tyranids more biomass. When Tyranids invade a world, they consume every last scrap of living matter. Every last scrap. Then they drink the oceans and absorb the atmosphere.

SO PUT DAT IN YA PIPE AN' SMOKE IT!

CRON'S DON'T NEED AN ATMOSPHERE !!


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Tyranids by far. It even says in their introductory bio on the Games Workshop site that they live to eradicate all other beings, so their general goal is to destroy everyone else. Plus giants hordes like that almost always overrun planets, like in Aliens (the movie) and Starcraft.

My alliance is to the Tau Empire. We're only growing and making more powerful weapons all in the name of the Greater Good. PEACE!

k guys lets reaaaaaly think about this.

what is the one thing that can never ever happen?

the death of a star god, sure the elday have trapped one, but the ctan can never really die.. im pretty sure theres some fluff somewhere that sais all the ctan that the nightbringer ate are in some kind on marcoverse still living inside the nightbringer, so even if you kill the nightbringer then all the other ctan pop out and boom bigger issue.

the ctan arnt going to sit around and let their precious necrons get their asses kicked, the necrons are the ctan's bringers of energy etc, so even if one of the other armies/factions/gods finally does beat everyone else up the ctan are going to butcher them, im not really bothered who they are theyre gonna get their asses whooped,

oh and it sais that nids eat EVERYTHING even metals, so the necrons would be a target, nids are alive = necron target, nids> necrons so they kick but for a while but then the ctan jump in and ctan=nid^infinty so goodbye universe, the only hope for the galaxy is the eldar hiding and coming after the necrons after they beat up the nids, then eldar = win and the galaxy= xenos land

Eftz3 wrote:Tyranids. Because they eat everything. The only race that might stand a chance would be the necrons, cause they are metal. But aren't they limited in number? The tyranids could just overwhelm them and but them in a biological prison.

Necrons phase out to the nearest convenient Tomb World, and they can teleport all the way across the galaxy if needs be. Yes they're limited in number, but we're not talking a few billion - When they were turned from Necrontyr to Necron they had an empire spanning the galaxy, so there's gonna be trillions of them. There just isn't that many awake at the moment, 'cos they're old and sleepy

Tyranic Marta wrote:k guys lets reaaaaaly think about this.

what is the one thing that can never ever happen?

the death of a star god, sure the elday have trapped one, but the ctan can never really die.. im pretty sure theres some fluff somewhere that sais all the ctan that the nightbringer ate are in some kind on marcoverse still living inside the nightbringer, so even if you kill the nightbringer then all the other ctan pop out and boom bigger issue.

the ctan arnt going to sit around and let their precious necrons get their asses kicked, the necrons are the ctan's bringers of energy etc, so even if one of the other armies/factions/gods finally does beat everyone else up the ctan are going to butcher them, im not really bothered who they are theyre gonna get their asses whooped,

oh and it sais that nids eat EVERYTHING even metals, so the necrons would be a target, nids are alive = necron target, nids> necrons so they kick but for a while but then the ctan jump in and ctan=nid^infinty so goodbye universe, the only hope for the galaxy is the eldar hiding and coming after the necrons after they beat up the nids, then eldar = win and the galaxy= xenos land

I'm not sure if it was this thread or another, similar one (Throne knows there's been many), but I'm about 99% sure that Tyranids can't digest Necron Metal. I agree with you that Necrons will retake their rightful place as undisputed masters of the Galaxy, but they'll do it easier than you might think Especially since Tyranids go out of their way to avoid Necrons, to the point that two entire splinter fleets tried to detour around a Tomb World, ran out of food and went into hibernation because of it.

Toss up between 'crons and nids. In the end, the necrons won!
Because:
a) pretty much immortal, if destroyed, they can be repaired (usually)
b) C'tan are making pariahs which have NO soul and the deadliest weaponry.
c) 2 of the 4 remaining C'tan are 'missing'. We already no thay 1 of them is most likely the machine spirit and is on mars, the other is who-noes-where and we all know he WILL return if he hasn't killed himself yet.


Yep, 'crons win!

The orks have got it they never will go away and they cant really lose so lets say ok its over.

One thing I've read,

Necrons can only be truelly be killed by about 2 items in existence

One: The Spear of Kaela Mensha Khaine, the Eldar god of war, (not sure if the Wailing Doom wielded by his avatars qualify, as their only a part of the true spear)

Two: A sword forged by Vaul, the Eldar smith god, only one is known to exist, Anaris, Dawnlight.

So unless someone finds one of these objects, most likely Anaris, the Necrons are here to stay.

Oriallis wrote:One thing I've read,

Necrons can only be truelly be killed by about 2 items in existence

One: The Spear of Kaela Mensha Khaine, the Eldar god of war, (not sure if the Wailing Doom wielded by his avatars qualify, as their only a part of the true spear)

Two: A sword forged by Vaul, the Eldar smith god, only one is known to exist, Anaris, Dawnlight.

So unless someone finds one of these objects, most likely Anaris, the Necrons are here to stay.

Never heard of this before. do you have some links or sources with the relevant info/fluff?

Even without war orks bring their ecosystem with them and can be reborn from literally ashes.

Just finished the Fall of Damnos and...

Azure wrote:Just finished the Fall of Damnos and...

Spoiler:

We had Scarabs taking the insides of a standard Iguard tank and turning it into more Warriors. Pretty sure Necrons have no issues with making more, keeping this in mind.

That seems odd I thought they were made from Necrodermis.

trewbarton wrote:Even without war orks bring their ecosystem with them and can be reborn from literally ashes.

I forget, the Nids leave planets lifeless rocks, right? Do these planets still have an atmosphere? Can the Orks rebirth within a hard vacuum?


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Do the space bugs backtrack? The Tau can terra-form, right? If the Nids do not circle back then perhaps some Tau can hide/hibernate in the deep cold dark void within "ark" ships for a few thousand years. Building back once the chitinous pigs believe they have nom'ed everything. I guess that means that long term, the ability to terra-form is one the the most powerful techs in WH40k. During the HH the Eldar had terra-forming know how. Do they still in M42 -1?

Orks can survive in a vaccuum for extended periods of time.

Gauss weaponry stops Orks dead, if you'll pardon the pun. It doesn't disintegrate them, it doesn't just kill them, it literally rips apart the nuclear force binding the atoms of their being, dissassembles these atoms and pulls the now sub-atomic particles towards the gun. Nothing can survive that (Except Comissar Yarrick T_T)

i think it will be a three way tie between necrons, nids, and orks. i mean orks will never want to get rid of some of their best foes and who better than regenerating foes. plus i know nids consume worlds so obviously they would still be in the picture. and of course necrons are ancient and we have no idea how many of them are still sleeping waiting to be awoken by a unaware grot or nid.

two ticks, if nids avoid necrons but eat every thing else, including ork spores so lets discount them, then when the nids move on then the crons will be left... so... crons win

but the Nid's would have to get at thier worlds and what if they did just Nom thier planets

the nids are avoiding them, i had a look it sais so in the codex, and sure if they do attack the crons then look up for my previous longer post as to how thaty wouldnt matter, crons win

trewbarton wrote:Even without war orks bring their ecosystem with them and can be reborn from literally ashes.

Last I heard, burning was one of the only sure ways of disposing of orks, so no, they can't be. There's also the matter that a simple fungicide could wipe them out, which would only take a single rogue techpriest or abnormally lucky random tyranid construction...

This may have been said... but I'm pretty sure that Creed could just infiltrate the entire human race into another galaxy if worst came to worst.

Necrons because they can keep coming back to life thats why i hate them.

Personaly i dont think that the C-tan are very good i men they got beat down by a chaos marine Cypher so to me they arnt that scary to eldar yes but to me and every one else not so much.

When did Cypher fight a C'tan?

The point is that necrons are left after everyone else is killed by nids and then nids dissapear

it doesnt matter how nasty the ctan are for that argument

If the remnants of Gorgon reaches another Nid group the war is over.

The nids that survived the Tau/Gorgon conflict have the experience of adapting to Pulse Rifles and Hammerhead firepower... Not to mention they have experience against Dark Eldar. On a large scale that Hive Fleet would overun everything in it's path.

Eldrad wrote:Personaly i dont think that the C-tan are very good i men they got beat down by a chaos marine Cypher so to me they arnt that scary to eldar yes but to me and every one else not so much.

Source, I request one good sir!

Lexicanum wrote:One source, named the Heresy of Cognitive Dissonance by Cardinal Elyass Vallkante, mentions some form of knife used possibly by Cypher. It is said he struck a being of golden light and his weapon was absorbed into the being. Cypher carried a C'tan Phase Weapon but it was most likely lost in the body of a gold creature, the Necrodermis of the C'tan Deceiver, during battle. The conclusion of the battle is unknown as a shroud prevented the spectator from seeing the outcome.

If this is the source, I think we need to clear up what happens when you are disarmed by an immortal god...

Yeah seems like Cypher hardly "beat" The Deceiver. In fact he's lucky The Deceiver let him go.

Emeth wrote:If every thing went balls out Mankind would eventualy die off, with it chaos would soon die off with out new people to corrupt and turn. eldar and tau wouldent make it, the orks and nids would have a massive war but I think the nids would evetually win because the orks would let them eat biomass to get stronger becaue it would be "Fun"...leaving the necrons and nids, since nither of them get any thing from the outher they wouldent fight so the nids leave to find more stuff to eat leaving the necrons....necrons win, mind you it is a compleatly void of life barren galaxy but they still win.

Nids won't go after the Necrons, but the opposite isn't quite true. The C'Tan will still want to feed, so the Nids will become a buffet.




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asimo77 wrote:Yeah seems like Cypher hardly "beat" The Deceiver. In fact he's lucky The Deceiver let him go.

Maybe he didn't. Maybe Cypher is the Deceiver now.

Still reckon the nids would just leave and even if the ctan chase them they wont be able to take the crons with them, so..... crons still win

Neurons for sure no question there


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ARG necrons I hate this spell check

Autoeditors FTW-
The computers at work have the same thing. Most of my posts have to be edited

I'd argue Necrons or Orks

Re Cypher beating a Ctan, therefore the C'tan are weak? What orifice did that one get pulled from? Did you have a quote to support the statement?

With the quote listed above Cypher made a noob mistake, stuck a Ctan with a Ctan weapon, and then either got eaten or ran for it. If he didn't run for it he ain't coming back

Also the Ctan aren't at full uber-ness when travel-sized for your inconvenience...

If this is a question of survivability then it all comes down to adaptability -
Imperium of Man - Probably the most adaptable of the list. The human psyche is tuned to survival above all others, in the end, humanity will survive in some shape or form because it will adapt to its new environment. Proof of this can be seen in the Age of Strife, how so many human planets survived but in so many different forms.
Tau - A difficult option. The Tau may have a high chance of survival because their culture is based on advancement. However they are small in number and don't have the robustness to survive some huge conflict.
Eldar - Probably the least likely. They are so few in number, and whilst having a martial nature, they are too distant from each other to be able to join up for survival. This roaming way may have an advantage, as they could literally hide from their enemies in deep space.
Dark Eldar - Whilst the DE are fairly secure in Cammoragh, their very way of life will be their undoing. Dark Eldar have an extremely low ability to reproduce even with Haemonuculi re growing warriors. To survive they need a constant and easily obtainable supply of souls to torment for their immortality. If all other sentient races disappeared, they would eventually die off.
Orks - Orks have a high chance of coming out top. Firstly they are so numerous and widespread that any opposing force would have to be as numerous and widespread and a lot more powerful to overcome the Orks 'Fightin' mentality. Secondly, the Ork from of reproduction is the most successful of all sentient races. Little or no food is required, little space is required, and the Orks can produce nearly infinite numbers that can survive nearly any environment.
Chaos Space Marines - CSM are nearly immortal. In the warp the have no need for sleep or sustenance. Their main problem is that in the warp they are all fighting each other if they have no higher purpose. Eventually they would destroy each other in a huge war that would energise the Chaos Gods but would leave them no servants to wreak havoc on the mortal plain so they would gradually decrease in power and most likely become closed off from the real world so would become a non force.
Tyranids - The Tyranids suffer from the same problem as the DE. They live to feed so would eventually kill off their food supply. However once they reach the point where searching for food expends more than consuming the food, they would most likely leave this galaxy and move on to another.
Necrons - They suffer from a nearly identical problem to the Tyranids. Once they have killed all life in the galaxy for their masters they would simply go back into hibernation forever.

On paper many races would die off in the end or have a high chance of survival, but all these factors against each other inevitably comes down to only a few races. DE and Eldar would die of first along with Tau as they aren't numerous or powerful enough to survive. The races that are left would end up in a huge cycle. Orks would eventually fall to infighting but their huge ability to reproduce would keep them going against the everlasting necrons as they would have an everlasting soul supply. Humanity would eventually adapt to whatever situation they were in but would most likely be in a small corner of the galaxy with no presence. Tyranids would have a huge supply of food in the Orks so would survive in a huge war between Necrons, Orks and Tyranids. Eventually however, the tyranids would assimilate Ork matter and adapt to utterly destroy the Orks, probably by developing a way to stop their mass reproducing. With Orks gone, Tyranids would have no food and leave and Necrons would have no souls so go back to slumber. In the end necrons would survive, Tyranids would move on, Chaos would have dissipated with no psychic presence in the warp but Humans would live on in a remote part of the galaxy.

Did you just use IOM and adaptability in the same sentence?

Humans can be adaptable, but the Imperium is not.

The Imperium doesn't even know how to repair all of the tech it uses now, and inventing more is pretty much heresy. It takes millenia to get a new idea past the beauracracy...

lets get this straight

everyone egets pretty much mashed by nids and orks right? everyone agrees with that? well even if you dont its pretty much a dead mans chance that anyone can kill of the nids, the galaxy is going to be slowly consumed by nids and mauled by orcs as the nids push the orcs before them like a mazzise dozer blade using the porcs to wipe ou thge galaxyt through attrition, the nids follow after the orcs, butcher them and eat whats left, if for some reason the orcs fail then epic battles between nids and other races ensue where eventually the other race gets owned through even more attrition, after this has gone through the entire galazy and terra is nothing but a floating husk then nids will eat orcs and move on, we arnt a major threat to them, meanwhile they avoid necron infested planets and thus necrons win.

Tyranic Marta wrote:lets get this straight

maybe..

Tyranic Marta wrote:
everyone gets pretty much mashed by nids and orks right?

wrong.

Tyranic Marta wrote:
everyone agrees with that?

No

Tyranic Marta wrote:
well even if you dont its pretty much a dead mans chance that anyone can kill of the nids, the galaxy is going to be slowly consumed by nids and mauled by orcs as the nids push the orcs before them like a mazzise dozer blade using the orcs to wipe out the galaxy through attrition, the nids follow after the orcs, butcher them and eat whats left, if for some reason the orcs fail then epic battles between nids and other races ensue where eventually the other race gets owned through even more attrition, after this has gone through the entire galazy and terra is nothing but a floating husk then nids will eat orcs and move on, we arnt a major threat to them, meanwhile they avoid necron infested planets and thus necrons win.

Nids have been stopped.
Orks have been stopped.
Bottom line :No one is unbeatable.

And the necrons will rise and annihilate those pesky bugs. Plus they beat the orks before. And the elves, etc...

So go on with that nid-fandom but don't expect agreement.

I vote imperium, i chose them cause they are able to reproduce unlike necrons. They unlike orks dont fight umungst themselves to often. Nids... well their went a hive ship... open fire while they cant fight back. Eldar and dark eldar are already on the way out on their lack of population. Tau........... just don't ask. Chaos would have the best chance to live the longest next to the imperium. only cause their will ever more to currupt but eventually their wont.

1hadhq wrote:

Tyranic Marta wrote:lets get this straight

maybe..

Tyranic Marta wrote:
everyone gets pretty much mashed by nids and orks right?

wrong.

Tyranic Marta wrote:
everyone agrees with that?

No

Tyranic Marta wrote:
well even if you dont its pretty much a dead mans chance that anyone can kill of the nids, the galaxy is going to be slowly consumed by nids and mauled by orcs as the nids push the orcs before them like a mazzise dozer blade using the orcs to wipe out the galaxy through attrition, the nids follow after the orcs, butcher them and eat whats left, if for some reason the orcs fail then epic battles between nids and other races ensue where eventually the other race gets owned through even more attrition, after this has gone through the entire galazy and terra is nothing but a floating husk then nids will eat orcs and move on, we arnt a major threat to them, meanwhile they avoid necron infested planets and thus necrons win.

Nids have been stopped.
Orks have been stopped.
Bottom line :No one is unbeatable.

And the necrons will rise and annihilate those pesky bugs. Plus they beat the orks before. And the elves, etc...

So go on with that nid-fandom but don't expect agreement.

A man of MANY word's. Careful it took my computer a while to load all your text hq

I actualy agree with tyranic marta, im sure there will be much more to the other races fall's but it sounds good. Yes the 'nids have been stopped, but at what cost? Same with the orc's it always takes an arm and a leg to push them back.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:


A man of MANY word's. Careful it took my computer a while to load all your text hq

I'll keep it shorter,if it strains our PC's ressources soo much, promise....
Lets wait if necron-fluff survives M-W treatment before we ignore their contribution to the decease of bugs and fungi.

1hadhq wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:


A man of MANY word's. Careful it took my computer a while to load all your text hq

I'll keep it shorter,if it strains our PC's ressources soo much, promise....
Lets wait if necron-fluff survives M-W treatment before we ignore their contribution to the decease of bugs and fungi.

If Fall of Damnos is any indication of the new Necron Fluff, they might be a bit less of a threat than they used to be... The new fluff rocks, but:

I'd say the 'Final Battle' will be a toss between Necrons, Orkz and Tyranids.

Tyranid's often appear from outside the Galaxy as it is. Who's to say they haven't already finished devouring every OTHER galaxy so far? There certainly seems to be a lot of them, and whilst they can be removed from out galaxy, they might just pop back later.

Orkz because of their reproductive habits. Sure, whilst it's useless against the Tyranid's (who'll probably eat the planet before they can fully mature into Boyz), but it'd be a thorn in the Necron's side, especially if they're not on death worlds.

Necrons - well they won before, they probably can again. I don't know much about Necron's though, so don't know if they can rebuilt completely broken 'Crons. If they can't, then they're on borrowed time.

There's one big problem for the Ctan-they need pain to survive. And Tyranids don't feel pain.

Squigsquasher wrote:There's one big problem for the Ctan-they need pain to survive. And Tyranids don't feel pain.

They don't need pain to survive. The C'Tan spent the majority of their lives feeding off stars, and thats what they'd do after their domination of the universe. They feed off life essence, not emotion, so Tyranids and Orks are like an all you can eat buffet. The Necrons would control their numbers, pen them in and let the C'Tan feast whenever they want. Although my personal theory is that after they destroy the other races, they will pack up shop and move to a new galaxy in search of more C'Tan.

Iam too slow..

Thus second scary nerd.

I admit that my theory isnt foolproof, noones is, i mean a radical inquisitor might invent a virus that would blitzbomb the orcs/ nids then the imperium would only have to deal with one swarmer race, the imperium can probably kick the necrons asses through sheer numerical superiority and the ability to use exterminatus on deathworlds, mid you the necrons have proven themselfs unbeatable in space thus far.

anyhoo i think its going to come down to the fact that pretty much noone haas the resources to kill both the nids and the orcs, the only way it could be done is if the inquisitor makes his bomb or if the other races (and i mean all of them) somehow unite to fight the nids+orcs to extinction, in which case they would be shattered, infighting would ensure and the crons would turn up and butcher them, so no everyones pretty much hosed.

Tyranic Marta wrote:I admit that my theory isnt foolproof, noones is, i mean a radical inquisitor might invent a virus that would blitzbomb the orcs/ nids then the imperium would only have to deal with one swarmer race, the imperium can probably kick the necrons asses through sheer numerical superiority and the ability to use exterminatus on deathworlds, mid you the necrons have proven themselfs unbeatable in space thus far.

anyhoo i think its going to come down to the fact that pretty much noone haas the resources to kill both the nids and the orcs, the only way it could be done is if the inquisitor makes his bomb or if the other races (and i mean all of them) somehow unite to fight the nids+orcs to extinction, in which case they would be shattered, infighting would ensure and the crons would turn up and butcher them, so no everyones pretty much hosed.

If the "good" races would unite and stop being dumb they could even destroy the necron's. If the theory of a massive invasionary force of nid's waiting outside the galaxy is true then they could even beat that it would hurt ALOT. Like ALOT ALOT, but they could do it. Though we all know the Imperiums prejudice will shatter any treaties between the species.

Which 'good' races?

The imperium sure doesn't qualify

Or did you mean all the non kill-you-for-sick-kicks races?

(that lets humanity out again )

Races of "order", that sound more accurate? Tau, Eldar, Imperium

D and D Lawful you mean?

If we're getting into alignment the Imperium is Lawful Evil, the Eldar are (technically) Lawful good and the Tau Lawful neutral, so alliance is seriously unlikely

Now, ganging up the Dark Eldar, the Orks and the Eldar (and maybe throw in CSM too) with a promise of a thumoing good fight (orks, csm) against the Yngir (eldar) that will have masses of pain washing the battlefield (dark eldar, csm) might work ;D


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