INTRODUCTION
After recently listening to the 40k audio novel ‘The Dark King’ which tells the tale of Konrad Curze Primarch of the Night Lords’ imprisonment after attacking and nearly killing Rogal Dorn of the Imperial Fists, and how he escaped and destroyed his homeworld of Nostramo. After which I searched through my old White Dwarf collection to find the Index Astartes article about the Night Lords.

And it’s gotta be said they are by far the best chapter ever; here are a few examples of the Night Lord interesting background…

While other Primarchs were raised by the leaders of local tribes of their homeworlds Curze raised himself and worked his way up the food chain. Before becoming what can be easily described as a super-human batman that killed the guilty in such a brutal fashion that they were beyond recognition.

The Night Lord’s methods of war during the great crusade were vicious and while the other chapters would avoid killing civilians, the Night Lords would often virus bomb a whole continent to destroy a rebellion or uprising.

They were the first chapter to turn evil. After destroying their homeworld the Night Lords went on a mad killing spree wiping out planets that they deemed sinful, all the time stating that in was in service to the Emperor.

If any of you have seen my other projects you’ll know I often like to invent my own armies often using ‘count as’ rules. But for once I think it would be a good idea to build an army that already exists in the 40k universe, and the Night Lords are by far the most interesting chapter for me to build.

WHY BLOOD ANGELS?
I choose to use the Blood Angel codex because I’m want to have an army with a different play style to the ones I currently play; my mech guard and Tzzentch Daemons are shooting based so it would be nice to have an fast moving army that does it’s best in close quarters. The entire army will be equipped with jump backs so it will be very elite and thanks to the FNP bubbles the army won’t suffer due to low numbers which will allow me to put more time into each model.

Now for my conversion concepts…



UNIT CONCEPTS
The appearance of this army will be based on the time when the Night Lords were performing their purge of the galaxy before the Horus Heresy began. So I plan to make them look dark but not too chaos based.

Librarian
For my HQ I plan to build an improved version of Arch-Heretic Korell an old conversion from a previous army project. I’ll also use the chaos possessed wings as his jump pack.

Assault Marines
This will be a simple conversion using the Khrone Beserkers because their armour is halfway between loyalist and chaos. Replacing their heads with a cool skull helmet I found on the web which you’ll see later and of course adding a night lord shoulder pad and per-heresy jump pack. I’ll use the different skull shoulder pads from the berserker kit for squad markings.

Honor Guard
I’ll will use chaos marine armour for these guys but removing the 8 pointed stars and adding a few purity seals. Also I hope to use the pre-heresy weapons from forgeworld.

Sanguinary Priests
I’m going to give these guys a sinister appearance similar to Fabius Bile using Dark Angels robes and the old raptor jump backs. I’ll also use the marauder arms with the medical device surgically attracted to the right arm.

Sanguinary Guard
Convert them from angels to daemons, changing the helmets to this possessed head (as a helmet design, not a mutation) and replace the angel wings with the harpy wings.

Vanguard
Simple; a squad of the Heresy Armoured Marines from forge world, however I’m not looking forward to having to paint the Night Lords symbol on the blank shoulder pad.

Devastators
A recent idea after coming across a variant list when you field 3 full devastator squad to back up assault marines and since I’ll have pre-heresy missile launchers kicking around why not.

Well those are the ideas, please tell me what you think as I always appreciate feedback.



WHAT TO USE FOR THE BASES!?!
The decision on what bases to use for this army has plagued me since I first began thinking about it. I’ve learned from pervious projects that the best bases are those that contrast the models rather then blending with them, so with this in mind I’m torn between two types.

First off is a ruined city with brown mud and grey stone contrasting the Night Lords paint scheme.

However I’ve recently played Chaos Rising and I’m tempted to do ice world bases, they would contrast the Night Lords brilliantly. Using a variety of cheap resin bases and adding snow over certain areas like the sand on this one painting the cracks as ice, and the moss on these bases and adding an ice effect to the water.
The only problem is the risk cause it’s rare for snow bases to look good and the fact there are very few snow boards out their so they’d look out of place on some boards.

Which do you think I should go for, or can you recommend another type of resin base for the army?

I cant wait to see your progress, please post pics. An excellent choice to use the BA codex. The idea of San Guard in the night lords is awesome, plus they have the potential to fit perfectly, with brooding red wings on their back.....should be awesome!

With the colors of the night lords, I would think a med grey base would look nice, like rubble or street/urban...and tie it all together with some sporadic patches of green grass to compliment the blue and red on their armor.

The icy field bases look like the better way to go.

3 Dev squads doesnt seem like a bad idea

Since you are running this army with the BA codex what about a Furi-Libie D-naught with the Wings power. This would give you a solid reasont to add jump packs to a dread. Ok that idea is just my hopes you do something like that, but Im sure you cant fit that into the army plans and tactically its probally not the best investment for you.

for the bases you could use dark moss and black gravel with bits of debris everywhere

All the ideas sound good!

What about doing a few test models with different base styles before committing?

This is an awesome idea. I still have some spare chirugeon parts from my fallen conversions (I bought the set entirely for the DA Fallen backpacks), namely the two evil looking mechanical arms (I used the backpack without the add ons) which would be perfect for a Night Lords Sanguinary Priest. I'd be happy to give them to you in order to help you with this project.

Looking forwards to seeing some of the first WiP shots.

Subscribed!

Same here!

Very much looking forward to this!

very interesting! (Just so you know, in the title of your blog you spelt pre-heresy, per heresy but you probably already noticed!) I will enjoy seeing how this progresses.

I always saw the Night Lords as Batman gone super human and insane XD

Very curious how this will work out! Did you also read Soul Hunter and Lord of the Night?

Great ideas! I know it may be out of place on some boards but i think the snow bases would look sweet!

Sounds awesome, I really want to see the outcome.

I m going to say your going to have to work hard to outdo yourself since "Viva La Grot"

Dude, for the snow bases, check this out.

sounds like a good plan, i've played night lords for almost 10 years and i've started using the blood angels codex, it works well. not got around to any prpoer conversions yet though.

The san gaurd idea had ocured to me, but i've had trouble deciding how to go about it. i like the possed head swap idea, though i'm a big fan of thier winged helms.

I'm watching this!

Cant wait for some models, always love your stuff.

It must be really annoying to play you however tho, I not keen on using a different codex for an army that has a codex.

Not ment as a flame, looking forward to your efforts.

Interesting plans I'm with Tortured-Robot on the idea of using a different codex when they technically have one already but hey they are pre-heresy so if any codex fits the fluff it's the blood angels. I'll be watching with great interest as I'm planning my new year project to be a Night Lords army (fingers crossed Santa thinks I've been good boy) and I might get some inspiration from your work

So here's my first attempt at a snow base; I used a 40mm base from an old conversion and with the help of my local GW manager tried out a snow basing technique. I choose to use Water Effects and bicarbonate mainly because it had a more frozen feel to it than modelling snow, plus I could sculpt the snow easier. when it dried it did seem a bright enough so the next mixture will have some white paint thrown in, I do like how the frost came out on the posters.



I think these will contrast the Night Lords perfectly but will see later as I'm now going to try out some blending technqiues on a standard marine model, afterwards I'll place him on the base and see how he looks.

These look fantastic...

I usually don't like snow bases at all, but yours are great!

A more detailed step by step would be GREATLY appreciated!

OMG

You sir.. ARE NUTS.

I love it. After finishing that awsome Grot army you move onto this?

So looking forward to seeing where you take this.

Cheers.

Oh.

TEST MINI! NAO!

Proteius, I see your name, click, and always love what I see.

How about a tutorial of your snowbase style!?

I actually think the brightness is spot on. Melting snow against dark terrain would look like that. That is a fantastic base. Would you mind PM me the materials you used for the snow or posting them on this thread? I have never heard of biocarbonate

He might mean "Sodium bicarbonate" (Baking Soda) but who knows for sure?

There sure are a lot of requests for a tutorial though!

Gotta be sodium bicarbonate... i.e baking soda -


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Damn you Alphy! How dare you steal the chemistry spotlight!

Those look really really good.

Alpharius wrote:A more detailed step by step would be GREATLY appreciated!

Add a mix of biocarbonate and water effect to tub,
mix till you get a nice icing sugar like texture,
Apply to base with modelling knife,
finally leave to dry.

Simples Or visit this article for all snow effect techniques > http://40kforums.com/vb/entry.php/12-New-pics-of-old-stuff

great! thanks for the steps to your snow!

welcome to the cause! see my signature to understand what i'm talking about

watching this space

Looks Awesome!

Yep, I'll be watching too. Looks like a promising project.

Well here's the test model, just practicing blending and lightning effects. Though it looks rough in places I'm sure with a bit of practice I'll get better at it. Thats why I think I'll start with the devastator's standard bolter armed marines and do the actual assault marines later. I'm just glad I'm using skull helmets blending helmets is hard. Also note how well the base contrasted the model.

Looking good, how about night lord runes on the chainswords?

Looking really good Proiteus, bases are indeed fantastic with the marine.

Are these going to represent the night lords before they turned against the emperor? Then if I recall right they aren't suposed to have lightning on their armour. Since the lightning is actually real energy that's pulsating around their armour. This is at least what I've learned from the fluff when I started my NL back in the day (my first army!). But I can be mistaken. Would love to hear what you got fluff whise on this cause I think I need an update on that.

Rose_Mountainz wrote:Are these going to represent the night lords before they turned against the emperor? Then if I recall right they aren't suposed to have lightning on their armour. Since the lightning is actually real energy that's pulsating around their armour. This is at least what I've learned from the fluff when I started my NL back in the day (my first army!). But I can be mistaken. Would love to hear what you got fluff whise on this cause I think I need an update on that.

index astartes seems to disagree with you as the lighting is shown to be painted on before they went over to the warmaster

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:

Rose_Mountainz wrote:Are these going to represent the night lords before they turned against the emperor? Then if I recall right they aren't suposed to have lightning on their armour. Since the lightning is actually real energy that's pulsating around their armour. This is at least what I've learned from the fluff when I started my NL back in the day (my first army!). But I can be mistaken. Would love to hear what you got fluff whise on this cause I think I need an update on that.

index astartes seems to disagree with you as the lighting is shown to be painted on before they went over to the warmaster

Cheers dude. My knowledge of their fluff is a bit dusty and old. Thanks for the information!

just wanna say... awesome idea! loving it
subscribed!

i like this model alot especialy the base

Can't go wrong with Night Lords! Bloody snow bases could give a nice contrast to the Night Lords too.
And if you havn't, pick up the Soul Hunter novel, awesome novel.

We Come For You!

Consdering that i've just started on some pre-heresy Night Lords myself, colour me interested.

Also, this might already have been covered (in which case we can establish I can't read), but how did you paint the first mini?

Ave Dominus Nox.

i love the test model, knowing your other blogs, im sure this one will be great!

Night Lord Update
I had planned to arm the marines with pre-heresy weapons but since I’m forced to buy the £15 kit to get the shoulder pads along with those out-dated heads, I’m forced to make sacrifices moneywise, so no pre-heresy devastators. I’ve tried looking up the shoulder pads on eBay but only found the outdated curved ones which won’t look right for pre-heresy, plus I know I don’t have the skills required to paint the night lords symbol on the shoulder pads.



Another small change is that I’m thinking of dropping the expensive and very suicidal honor guard for 2 pairs of multi-melta attack bikes. Thou I’m unsure if attack bikes were around in the Horus Heresy.
I was going to use this awesome conversion I found on warseer but then realised that my 2 squadrons would cost over £100!



Looks like it’s time to hit the drawing board.

You could always try and build your own Jetbikes. Check out the link in one of my previous posts. The guy made some awesome (corrupt) Pre-Heresy NL Jetbikes then mount meltas on them.

that is an awesome jetbike!

Attack bikes were around, seen them in the collected visions book

MajorTom11 wrote:Proteius, I see your name, click, and always love what I see.

I couldn't have said it better.

I have only lurked so far, but I won't resist commenting this time...

The snow bases are so great!!! They make me want to try and do some!!

Also your fluff reasons for choosing the Night Lords are quite good, and they fit most of the BA aspects, so that's a nice idea!!!

Too bad for the Sang. Guard, I was already eager to see how you would've pulled it out... And assault bikes don't fly!

By far Night Lords are my favorite Legion and I'm very excited to see how this project turns out. The snow base is a perfect fit for a contrast to the dark armour. Cant wait to see more.

I hate you Proteius! This makes me want to do a World Eater Pre-heresy army!

In all seriousness man you are an inspiration in the hobby. Your stuff was a great intro into getting me to do my admech and I really enjoy the stuff you put out. Keep it up man. There are never enough dudes like you in our hobby

Fluff: If my memory serves me, only the Emperors Children were allowed to have the imperial eagle on their armour.

Otherwise looking really great.
Looking forward to seeing more!

Spot on but its a winged skull.

Touché... but still

Looks cool. Night lords are pretty cool.

ADVICE NEEDED FOR THE HARD CHOICES?
I’ve now settled on a list that features 3 lots of 5 ML devastators supporting 2 10 man assault squads and sanguinary guard with librarian and priests leading the way.

However money wise this army is a nightmare as both the FW pre-heresy weapons and shoulder pads are expensive to buy!

I’ve considered many cheaper alternatives. First is using remote havoc launcher turrets for missile launchers but the pre-heresy weapons look so much better overall and add to the army‘s theme.

Second was the shoulder pads; if sold alone they’d be priced at £5 but because they come with those silly looking outdated heads their £15. I’ve requested that Chapterhouse studios make some pre-heresy pads for me, they replied that while the shoulder pads would be 50p each the cost to make the original and cast would be £70 overall, so it isn’t much different from buying directly for GW.

I know I don't have the skills to paint such detailed symbol so another option would be to commission someone to paint on the symbols for me, but I went down that path with some minor green stuff work in a past project and got a lot of grief from those who knew about the outside help!

So I ask for advice on what to do about these two key components for my army?

huh, that is an interesting issue.

maybe buy a few, and then mold them.. ? that could savve you a ton of money.

Shoulder pads : couldn't you use some plastic components from the Vampire Counts range?

Missile Launcher : if you could find some of these on e-bay, maybe it wouldn't cost that much, while keeping the overall look of the pre-heresy ML... Not that easy though...



I'm sorry, these ideas are far from perfect, but it's all I could think of for now...

Vampire Counts Grave guard shields for storm/combat shields.

Lennysmash wrote:Vampire Counts Grave guard shields for storm/combat shields.

Already shorted, the shoulder pads are the real problem and at this rate with each squad going to cost about £50 I might be forced to drop this project before it begins!

Too bad someone already doing pre-heresy emperor's children at my local GW the drugged up assault troopers would suit them. I could also change to thousand sons but I'm sick of painting red.

Then here is my suggestion, buy the 1x upgrade kit for the nightlords, keep the shoulder pads and sell the heads. you will easily get the money for the heads alone. Then using GS try out some press moulds. If it does work out then all you would be out of would be a little bit of GS as you can then sell the pads on Ebay if its not going to plan.

for parts try bits and kits.

Are you averse to using plastic shoulder pads and sticking Night Lord decals on them? As far as detailed metal shoulder pads, it isn't difficult to make a mold from them (in rtv rubber) and cast all you want in resin

Aww too bad you are giving up on the Sang guard idea,I really wanted to see them,I use Sang guard as Raptors in my Inter-Heresy Emperors Children. I think all marines should have body sculpted armour and face helmets. :-P

The Shoulder Pad Crisis Continued
The biggest issue of this army is the shoulder pads costing £15/$25 for 10, which is very expensive considering this army is going to include 3 devastator squads with the FW pre-heresy missile launchers.

Luckily I was able to contact a fellow modeller who refused to re-cast GW ones but agreed to sculpt 5 pre-heresy designs and cast 60 of them for £65/$100. He just emailed me with pictures of this
rough version (see attachment), which is very good for a quick job.

However I’m now unsure which to use; his version or the official GW ones!
The thing is I've ditched the idea of having 3 devastators so I'm already saving some cash because I no longer require 12 pre-heresy missile launchers. Plus a friend told me he's got some old night lords models I can have.

However I know the ones that he’ll make for casting will be of a lot better in quality, plus cheaper in the long run. The biggest issue is the fact I’m having assistance with the army, which in previous projects has caused me nothing but grief. Despite tournament judges being okay which the knowledge of someone else doing the green stuff work on one of my units I was labelled a cheater by some players. It’s because of this I’m reluctant to take his offer.

What do you guys think?

i think those shoulder pads are very good and you get them cheaper than the gw one so you should take that offer

Personally I'd go with those custom ones. I can understand your reluctance in view of the comments you've had over some of your other armies, but I really can't understand their viewpoint. If you used ones from chapterhouse or even GW then YOU didn't make them, would that be an issue for the detractors? Then again I don't play, let alone tourney, which is what you want to do with these, so my advice is always going to fall on the 'do what you want' side I just find it sad that some peeps are always looking for some way to detract from/belittle what you're achieving.

Agree with mt on this, even if you are seeking advice or sourcing one particular part its still not cheating.

The rest of the input will be yours and tbh that will far out way the contribution of even those pads, nice as they.

As everyone said, get the custom pads. It is such a small part of the marine I am sure no judge would mind. Looking forward to seeing some miniatures!

What the other guys said. Those pads are sweet.

Proiteus wrote:
the knowledge of someone else doing the green stuff work on one of my units I was labelled a cheater by some players.

What was their specific reason for viewing it as cheating? I don't see what difference it makes who customized part of the model.

I say go for the custom pads, IMO they look better than the GW pads and you're not paying for the helmets you can't use.

Proiteus wrote: Despite tournament judges being okay which the knowledge of someone else doing the green stuff work on one of my units I was labelled a cheater by some players.

What do you guys think?

I think this is some of the dumbest criticism I have ever heard... Those lads are among the most pathetic players ever...

So of course, go ahead with the custom pads!!!

The judges don't care (hopefully), so you should do the same about those buggers...

Pads look cool, are you going to use the Chapterhouse Stuido's pre heresy jump packs?

Miss Dee wrote:Pads look cool, are you going to use the Chapterhouse Stuido's pre heresy jump packs?

Yep and have every marine wearing those bad-ass helmets.

the packs have fiddaly vanes on them. Just a heads up.

I seriously can't understand why having someone sculpt Pad details for you is "cheating", while using the GW ones is not. These players seem a lot like the ones who have a problem with counts as and are far too pedantic.

The CH stuff is of a great quality and the jump packs will look great on your Night Lords IMHO. Pretty cool idea to use those skull helmets.

go with the pads, i see no reason for you not too. as someone said earlier, everyone is using parts made by other people... GW parts!

Considered doing Pre-Heresy Thousand Sons alongside the Night Lords but decided not to now.

Or give the thousand sons no weapons, and just have them use solely magic. I love the idea! I would go with SW or BA codex rather than the chaos codex since i think their are some interesting options there which you mentioned, but the chaos codex can be cool as well!

you can change the name by editing the first post and changing the title of it.


also, better hurry with chapterhouse since GW is bringing them to court and if they lose it would be a drag for them to not be able to sell their items to you!

love the idea, ill be keeping watch on this!

Sageheart wrote:Or give the thousand sons no weapons, and just have them use solely magic. I love the idea! I would go with SW or BA codex rather than the chaos codex since i think their are some interesting options there which you mentioned, but the chaos codex can be cool as well!

The Blood Angels codex is designed for speed and close quarters where Thousand Sons perfer ranged fighting and I think using the codex of the chapter that destroyed their homeworld and are now their sworn enemies wrong on many levels. Overall Chaos can provide more interesting types of play and better fluffwise.

Sageheart wrote:also, better hurry with chapterhouse since GW is bringing them to court and if they lose it would be a drag for them to not be able to sell their items to you!

Good thing the small order of bits arrived during xmas so I'm now able to get an idea of the quality and appearance. I threw together this model to show you what I have planned, what do you think?

The heads a bit small but the jumpback will look great once the mould lines are removed, I be ordering the rest of the night lord parts I need on monday. Also given the news I'll need to consider ordering the Thousand Son parts as well or perhaps gamble that part of the project on if the company will be around for much longer?

I would get everything asap and then build up the army slowly.

The head looks nice with the jumppacks, do you plan on having dramaticly posed assault marines?

i understand why you didn't wish to use SW or BA, both makes sense, they just have a lot of interesting options, though the csm army does as well. if you use BA you could try to stay clear of the close combat elements and make an army of psykers and long ranged weapons, it could be done, but i think your chaos idea is great. You should make a libbie dred though hahaha, even if you just use it as a normal chaos dred or as a DP.

You need more bat wings!

Cutthroatcure wrote:You need more bat wings!

Back then their armour didn't include a lot of batwings. Perhaps I'll add some to the honor guard.

nice picture, where did you get it?

The Horus Heresy Collected Visions.

Well I've got to place my order to get the rest of the bits tommorrow but I just can't help but be concerned with the size of the skull helmet. Do you guys think it's too small?

The helmet is more "truescale" than the GW heads. Id have to see it painted to know for sure though

yeah same here, i think i needa see it painted before anything else, though so far it doesnt look too small. if you want to really think about it the head is bound to be small on a super human they aren't really planning on growing out those muscles and bones!

Well, apart from the fact I don't really like that helmet (no lower jaw, looks more funny as in "funny undead" than creepy to me), I don't think there's any scale problem, so you should go with it!

Plus, your painting skills will more than probably outweigh this minor concern of mine...

Proiteus wrote:

Cutthroatcure wrote:You need more bat wings!

Back then their armour didn't include a lot of batwings. Perhaps I'll add some to the honor guard.

I just think that they take on this dark lord image and bat wings could be awesome..but i have never had a problem with your past stuff so you use your better judgment :-)

sir could i buy one of those pads you're having made for you?

My Vision For This Army
I did plan to complete the remaining 3 tanks in my Grot Rebels Army before starting work on the first couple of miniatures. But certain circumstances have required me to get the first conversion built and painted by the end of the week.

You see GW is taking the company that I was buying the pre-heresy jump-backs and skull helms from to court due to their conversion products being completely GW related, even the names. This means I need to order the rest of the bits for this army by the end of this week in order to do the Night Lords project before the company goes bankrupt.

I was actually considering dropping the project due to how I’ve been drawn to the Thousand Sons over Xmas with the HH novel and Index Astartes article, I then decided it would depend on the look of first completed conversion on if I would continue the project.

But given how he looks unpainted, I think I’ll most likely be continuing with this project just imagine 30 of these guys as my troops.

Mmmmmm, very lovely! I think you're onto a winner if it says at this calibre!

I really like the mock conversion, looking forward to see more!

looking good, will love to see it painted!

The 1st Night Lord
Well here's the painted model, I'm very happy with how the blending came out but feel I need to work on my metal work. Looks like I'll be ordering those parts this weekend.

Ok, now, stop.

You cannot have anymore doubts.

You have to go through that army, it's going to be awesome.

There's nothing more to say.

You know, I was sceptical of the cast quality of the jetpacks and the sculpt quality of the shoulder pads, but seeing how it all came together changes my mind.

One point though is that the finished Nightlord looks not much different then a 40k one. I am not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing though. Pros are that you can use them as a Chaos army with a few extra units, cons are people will struggle to recognise them as Pre-Heresy on first sight.

Must be the chaos shoulder pads I was using for the test model, I'll be using the standard loyalist shoulder pad design for the rest of the army.

Whats is on where the khorn symbol was?

Miss Dee wrote:Whats is on where the khorn symbol was?

A squad marking; A red rune which is much easier than trying to paint a skull or something similar.

Lookingood. This one definitely looks good and a whole army of them will be stunning - looking forward to seeing them with the different pads though. Would look even better if you made the lightning strikes a bit more jagged at the very small scale. maybe just give your steady hand a tiny shake as you draw the strike and it will make it look more natural

I love the model, the rest of the army should be wonderful.

are you at all worried that the same head on all the models (the skull helmet) may make them look too similar? You do have great modeling skills so I'm not worried, but just thinking of that.

Well Id say that painting is only above average and possibly scraping at the underside of flippin amazing.

The metal of the jumppack does seem to be blended not as well as the blue but now Im just nitpicking.

Give us more of these painted fly boys.

That is all SORTS of awsome.

Looking good Bro.

And I think we've got longer than a lot of people think for the court stuff.

This stuff takes AGES to fight out.

Awesome.

Night Lords are a really interesting Legion.

THE INQUISITION’S INTERFERANCE
I had a friend visit today and I showed him my night lord model, he loved it but expressed his concern that the parts from Chapterhouse would cause problems. As most of you may know Chapterhouse Studios has been dragged to court by GW due to their products breaching copyright and some of which are cast from GW related parts. He stated that GW would likely outlaw these parts in their stores so if I took this army to a GW tournament or store I would be banned from using those models.

This had me a bit alarmed as the head is the most characteristic part of the model, so I don’t want to replace it but neither do I want to create an army the majority of which I couldn’t use at Warhammer World were most of the tournaments I attend are held!

Sorry guys but it looks like this project could be down and out, what are your thoughts on the matter?

I dont think that will happen your friend might be envious of your stuff.

GW has a 50% rule IIRC.

As long as the models are over 50% GW parts, you should be fine.

Otherwise they would have to ban conversions etc.

I dont think that they will be able to saw "Nope, not our pads, go home". I remember something about specific % GW parts or something like that for Tournys, though may be wrong. That would be like saying if they are on resin bases or done with non-GW paint.

Got to say I think it's unlikely that will happen and equally unlikely that anyone would point out that the parts are 3rd party. Just say you had a friend do them for you. But I'm bias as iv got a vested interest in CH. Shame GW don't see that they are only hurting themselves, you can't add parts to nothing, you always have to but GW kits to make any of CH's stuff work.

Is it really that easy to tell the difference? I've never used anything but GW parts but it just seems to me that it would be the head of GW dragging someone to court, not the people who work in the stores. Some might not enough really know about the issue between Chapterhouse and GW.

I have a question though. If there's a certain % rule about GW parts, what if someone makes a model entirely out of GS or plasticard? Would it be banned 'cause it has no GW parts or would it be okay because it contains no competitors parts as well?

Either way, personally I'd keep working on the army. Even if for some reason it's not allowed at tournys, it'd still be fun to do, look at and play against friends at home.

while true Court case's can take years to go through and the appeals to be finished.
GW has taken action against company's before for IP theft / Infringement and those company's no longer exist, GW are acting to protect there profits, as to we have to buy GW kits in the first place True BUT there is forge world for after market parts.
GW can ban any item from it's store or supported event as that is there right. and if they tell staff to do so, the staff will do it.
the head and the pack is very identifiable as chapterhouse.

the helmet, quality vis OK nothing special.
JET pack is poor with bad mould lines and lots of flash worse than forgeworld

But at least they dont shrink like Forge World.

dont get me wrong i am not a forge-world fan, there stuff is overpriced and only ok quality for the price.
but the packs i saw were really sub standard.

Okay looks like this project (the night lords at least) is back on track. The chances of attending a tournament where chapterhouse parts are banned will be extremely rare and even if that's the case I've still got the Grots & the machine cult to field.

As for the jump back, I choose the chapterhouse version because it looked better than the alternative...

Thank god you kept going cause letting the court keep back one's creative side would be just plain sad...Once again you get my respect!

Maxmini is about to put out 2 new pre-heresy packs, take a look in their news and rumor thread before you order, they look like good options too!

the max mini stuff is really great, an has no court case against them, there stuff is unique but still usable.
the packs are nice and as for heads you could use Steam Knights Helmets, as they look HH era, Skull Tribe Helmets if you want skull helmets.
it would also give you more variety and variations through the army, They evan do HH era pad pack's.
this stuff looks miles ahead of the chapter house stuff.

Can someone show me a pic of the new jumpbacks then, cause I can't find them?

Bout half way down
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/420/284081.page

This army is going to look fantastic Proiteus. You're models and chosen bits are very well suited to the task! Man that fist prototype is just awesome with the helm & pack and all...

whalemusic360 wrote:Bout half way down
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/420/284081.page

Those Jump Backs are awesome! I think the vent version would look great with my FW Heresy Armoured Vanguard!

IF ONLY SOMEONE HAD SHOWN THESE TO ME SOONER, BEFORE MY 30 JUMP BACK CHAPTERHOUSE ORDER WAS DISPATCHED!

ranger1977 wrote:the max mini stuff is really great, an has no court case against them, there stuff is unique but still usable.
the packs are nice and as for heads you could use Steam Knights Helmets, as they look HH era, Skull Tribe Helmets if you want skull helmets.
it would also give you more variety and variations through the army, They evan do HH era pad pack's.
this stuff looks miles ahead of the chapter house stuff.

I am also a BIG fan of MaxMini - great stuff there.

But, Chapter House also has some good stuff too.

Pick and choose guys!

Proiteus wrote:Can someone show me a pic of the new jumpbacks then, cause I can't find them?

Shazam!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/420/284081.page#2266328

These are VERY nice too - and I'm looking forward to seeing them in the shop!

Although, I also have a bunch of the CH versions, and they are very nice too...

I ninja'd you by 2 hours Alpha.....

As well as their awesome jump packs, Maximini have a range of heads which seem to be perfectly suited for Pre Heresy Thousand Sons. They are called Steam Knight Helmets.

It's great you're continuing with the project. btw have you seen the new forgeworld model of Tyberos, that armour looks old enough to be pre-heresy imo, i'm sure with you're skills you could change the head and shoulders to look pre-heresy. oh and it comes with skulls and those bad-ass lighting claw/chainfists, they look intimedating enough to be night lords.

hi mate here they are
look in the forum on max mini under previews
http://www.maxmini.eu/forum/index.php?board=3.0

Your first Nightlord looks great! Could I ask if the legs are standard or if you converted them as I don't recognise them?

As for third party bits, I doubt GW would stop people from using (insert percentage number) CH bits on their models as their problem is with the company not the hobbyists - if you're concerned though it might be worth giving GW a ring and checking with them as their customer service is normally friendly enough
A big thumbs up for MaxMini from me as well, their stuff is top notch!

I think Bunnygirl asked about 100% scratch built - I was told by a redshirt that there are okay, even encouraged. A bloke in my LGC has a Daemon Prince made entirely from Milliput that I think he uses in Tournies.

Once this army is finished, I might pop down to Lincoln to see them in action as I've been meaning to crash your club for a while now

I think I like Chapterhouse's pre-herasy packs a little better than the one on the right, but that jump pack on the left is really slick!

Nice work on the first night lord, looking pretty sweet. I'll following this blog and good luck. I can't wait to see some pre-heresy 1k sons!

ishanmaster wrote:I can't wait to see some pre-heresy 1k sons!

Sadly I've had to drop the 1k Sons half, can't afford both

:(

Sorry I didn't bring up the packs sooner btw, they were only just previewed around the same time as your post :S

Actually I've thought about it and while I will certainally be using the one on the right for my Heresy Armour Vanguard I think the chapterhouse jump-packs are better looking than the one of the left, probably due to the engines having more bulk to the thin engines on the maxmini one on the left.

awe no 1000 sons! i was looking forward to that! still the night lords seem awesome!

ranger1977 wrote:hi mate here they are
look in the forum on max mini under previews
http://www.maxmini.eu/forum/index.php?board=3.0

I'm surprised, I actually think these are pretty cool-looking. I've yet to like any 3rd-party jump packs, but these looks pretty nice.

Any updates? I am starting a similar army today and I am interested in what you have made so far.

UPGRADE COMPLETE!
HOLY CRAP! Look what I just got emailed and is now about to be casted for my Night Lords

Sweet. Those look great.

Looking sweet!

dude, all this stuff is super bad-ass

that shoulder pads are perfect

Very nice indeed. Its nice that you have the variations there, should make for a very characterful force. Question though Proiteus, are you casting them or is someone else doing that for you?

Wow, these look really good.

Lennysmash wrote:Very nice indeed. Its nice that you have the variations there, should make for a very characterful force. Question though Proiteus, are you casting them or is someone else doing that for you?

If you looked at a post I made on a previous page, I mentioned that a person I know on the web offered to create some for me. I was reluctant to take his offer at first but everyone thought it was too good to pass up so I took it. He send me the picture just yesterday.

Just to let you know i dont think gamesworkshop can ban chapterhouse biz because i saw a model that won a golden daemon on there website that had the same jump pack your using. Also your night lords are going to be sick

VOTE NOW!
Problem with being so creative is that I come up with a lot of possible army concepts. Alongside this Night Lords idea there are 3 others and because I think their all fantastic I want to build them all. However there are two problems first I can’t decide on which one to do first and second is I can only afford to do 2 maybe 3 of them so one will have to scrapped.

So I've setup a thread asking for which of the 4 ideas people like the most, so if you want to see the Night Lords project to survive this little vote off go check it out > http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/347708.page

WHICH ARMY WILL YOU SUPPORT?

Looks like I might leap back into this project after/during my 1k sons scarab occult project and use these guys for my main jump infantry, providing they're not overpriced.

great to see this going

WHY USE A NOISY JUMPBACK WHEN YOU CAN TELEPORT?
Here’s a quick question, given how hard it is to find a pre-heresy looking jump back that aren’t expensive or a lacking in quality. I’ve been considering an alternative…

So what do you think to the idea of my night lords being equipped with GK interceptor teleporter packs, the idea of night lord warriors teleporting around is a frightening concept as you can see or hear them coming so it sounds like something a night lord would consider. Plus it would likely be cheaper in the long run. Or would an night lord army equipped with teleporters look a bit too weird?

Your thoughts?

Proiteus wrote:The 1st Night Lord
Well here's the painted model, I'm very happy with how the blending came out but feel I need to work on my metal work. Looks like I'll be ordering those parts this weekend.

I'd love to know where you got the skull helmet from, awesome work all around!

Dannyrevv wrote:

Proiteus wrote:The 1st Night Lord
Well here's the painted model, I'm very happy with how the blending came out but feel I need to work on my metal work. Looks like I'll be ordering those parts this weekend.

I'd love to know where you got the skull helmet from, awesome work all around!

Its from chapter house studios it's a chaplain helmet they make

If your going to quote the question, please cut the pic out of it.

I think the teleporter idea could work, but they need some bat wings to make those not in the know believe the were "flying" with such speed as to be invisible.

Hi Proiteus,

I think that "teleporter" pack thing is becoming a bit "cheap" to me...

Teleporters in the 40k era (and in the 30k as well) are supposed to be massive, ancient, somewhat unreliable artifacts from the Age of Technology...

Grey Knights, shrouded as they are in mystery, have access to portable versions of them, due to their "elite of the elite" status, and the efforts made by the Imperium to grant them such an equipment.

If the Night Lords had had access to such a technology in the Pre-Heresy Era, for a whole Legion's assault elements, it would remove the "precious & scarce" feature of those personal teleporters...

And, from another point of view, I think the Night Lords would prefer the whining of jumppacks to cause terror in their foes' hearts, to a somewhat less noisy teleportation...

Lastly, I find the look is awesome with those pre-heresy packs, it does make them stand out from conventional assault troops! (Have you thought of the new FW kits? - expensive, but perhaps of a better quality?)

But that's just my opinion, I can understand it being way easier to buy than Pre-heresy jump packs!

I dount they would use the teleporters even if they were easily available. Night lords are hunters and there is no hunt if you just beam down next to your victim. And also night lords are fast moving so once they are down on the planet and footslogging they loose thar aswell.

The whole idea of the night lords is to be seen and to scare the crap out of a civilaisation before and invasion and to keep imperial law through fear, to me I think they chose jumpacks because then it is essentially saying "No matter how fast you run, we will find you"

Looks cool. I like the skull on the model.

done the Teleporter back pack.....

I like the sound of that idea, and would be very original I like the GK models alot, would you use the GKs, or just convert standard CMS?

ANOTHER PROJECT HAS FALLEN!!!
Well what I thought would be an fun project has turned into a bit of a nightmare, finding decent looking jump backs is hard. I wasn’t too pleased with the look of the chapterhouse one especially given the amount of filing and trimming required. Forge world is far to expensive and maxmini hasn’t released the better looking ones yet.
I also need to consider that GW won’t let me use them at Throne Of Skulls due to large non GW jump back and helmet and I’m not to keen on having 2 armies I can’t use at Warhammer World.
The teleporter packs were the last chance of this project working out as they would be cheap, look good and not cause problems with GW staff. But Moonshine makes a good point…

moonshine wrote:I dount they would use the teleporters even if they were easily available. Night lords are hunters and there is no hunt if you just beam down next to your victim. And also night lords are fast moving so once they are down on the planet and footslogging they loose thar aswell.

So because of all these issues I’ve been forced to drop yet another project! Sorry Guys

Like the Kroggs I had considered returning to this project afterwards but Games Workshop’s attitude towards the hobby plus their constant price rises is putting me off the hobby. Therefore it is very likely that The Scarab Occult project will be my last. However there is a slim chance I might still get behind the teleporting space marine army concept

Also if anyone is interested in buying the 55 custom made shoulder pads send me a pm, thou it will pain me to part with them.

 Proiteus wrote:
The Shoulder Pad Crisis Continued
The biggest issue of this army is the shoulder pads costing £15/$25 for 10, which is very expensive considering this army is going to include 3 devastator squads with the FW pre-heresy missile launchers.

Luckily I was able to contact a fellow modeller who refused to re-cast GW ones but agreed to sculpt 5 pre-heresy designs and cast 60 of them for £65/$100. He just emailed me with pictures of this
rough version (see attachment), which is very good for a quick job.

However I’m now unsure which to use; his version or the official GW ones!
The thing is I've ditched the idea of having 3 devastators so I'm already saving some cash because I no longer require 12 pre-heresy missile launchers. Plus a friend told me he's got some old night lords models I can have.

However I know the ones that he’ll make for casting will be of a lot better in quality, plus cheaper in the long run. The biggest issue is the fact I’m having assistance with the army, which in previous projects has caused me nothing but grief. Despite tournament judges being okay which the knowledge of someone else doing the green stuff work on one of my units I was labelled a cheater by some players. It’s because of this I’m reluctant to take his offer.

What do you guys think?

awesome! How did you do the wings?

Could you not cast up the old metal Raptor jump packs?

Why GW stepped away from the design perplexes me.

psnmario wrote:

 Proiteus wrote:
The Shoulder Pad Crisis Continued
The biggest issue of this army is the shoulder pads costing £15/$25 for 10, which is very expensive considering this army is going to include 3 devastator squads with the FW pre-heresy missile launchers.

Luckily I was able to contact a fellow modeller who refused to re-cast GW ones but agreed to sculpt 5 pre-heresy designs and cast 60 of them for £65/$100. He just emailed me with pictures of this
rough version (see attachment), which is very good for a quick job.

However I’m now unsure which to use; his version or the official GW ones!
The thing is I've ditched the idea of having 3 devastators so I'm already saving some cash because I no longer require 12 pre-heresy missile launchers. Plus a friend told me he's got some old night lords models I can have.

However I know the ones that he’ll make for casting will be of a lot better in quality, plus cheaper in the long run. The biggest issue is the fact I’m having assistance with the army, which in previous projects has caused me nothing but grief. Despite tournament judges being okay which the knowledge of someone else doing the green stuff work on one of my units I was labelled a cheater by some players. It’s because of this I’m reluctant to take his offer.

What do you guys think?

awesome! How did you do the wings?

I get your new around here, but you pulled up a 3+ year old thread

Since the OP posted that they aren't going to continue with the project, and the thread is several years old, I'll lock it up (if it needs to be reopened for any reason, please PM me).