Sombody told me today that they read the new GK codex and relayed a very vexing story to me. According to him, there's some background where a group of Grey Knights comes to a world where an artifact has corrupted it's inhabitants by chaos. There is an Adepta Sororitas convent on this planet, however the battle sisters have not been corrupted due to their faith and purity. The first thing the GK's do is slaughter the sisters, desecrate the bodies, and smear their blood all over themselves before purging the rest of the planet. Ok, so the murder of faithful ecclesiarchy aside, when did the noble Grey Knights start covering themselves with the blood of their innocent victims? If this is true it seems like Khorne would really approve of Grey Knights.
I'm not sure I totaly believe him and it might be his little April Fools joke since he also said there are Grey Knights using daemon swords and going into the warp to kill daemons permanently.
The part about using daemon swords and going in the warp is true... But "Using daemon swords" is a misnomer... The only GK I know of using a daemon sword is Castellan Crowe, the head of the Purifiers.
He's not actually using the sword... He's keeping it safe since it can't be destroyed and basically uses his faith to keep the sword from spreading corruption. Incidentally he uses it as a beating stick, but doesn't harness its powers.
Imho in this view it's actually quite cool... Only his supreme faith and purity are able to contain the evil influences of the sword, and thus he carries it as a burden, while being constantly challenged and taunted by it.
That said I dunno about the sororitas thing... The fluff in the codex isn't that great, but superficial misreading often worsen the situation more than what it really is.
At this point Matt Ward's just seeing what he can get away with, honestly I don't really mind that this codex seems OP (just means my Eldar will be even better when they get redone ) but I'm kinda worried that the fluff is taking such a nosedive. Please don't let this man near the Black Library.
Their lives are filled with ritual, meditation and self-denial, designed to strengthen the mind and steel the soul against the horrors of the daemonic. The Chapter's warriors are heavily conditioned to resist the whispered seductions of Chaos and the honeyed lies of daemonic creatures. These precautions are vital and, thus far, have proven to be effective, as not a single Grey Knight has faltered in battle or become a pawn of the Dark Powers.
And
Index Astartes Grey Knights
The Grey Knights fight in baroque, heavily ornamented suits of armour with the Chapter's symbol, a sword through a tome, prominently displayed. They fight with the finest equipment and weapons the Imperium can manufacture, mighty sigil-encrusted swords and halberds. These warriors alone can stand before the might of a Greater Daemon with any hope of banishing it back to the Immaterium from whence it came.
GeckoOBac wrote:He's not actually using the sword... He's keeping it safe since it can't be destroyed and basically uses his faith to keep the sword from spreading corruption.
They live on Titan, why wouldn't they just toss it into Jupiter? I'd like to seem someone fetch it from the center of a gass giant when the pressure is 100 million times that of Earth's surface pressure (not a made up number). Throw it into the Sun for that matter.
You see, if they did that, then in the upcoming Necron codex it'll have the Nightbringer fly into the middle of Jupiter, take the sword, and then ride around the galaxy with it, just winning. It'll be called Charlie Sheen.
MandalorynOranj wrote:You see, if they did that, then in the upcoming Necron codex it'll have the Nightbringer fly into the middle of Jupiter, take the sword, and then ride around the galaxy with it, just winning. It'll be called Charlie Sheen.
Ok not this over the top but it's exactly what I thought... It's not like in 40k we lack entities with godlike powers and so on. I mean, there are ACTUAL STAR EATING CREATURES. If you can't destroy the sword you can't simply put it somewhere that "cannot be reached". Stars explode, die, warp storms move things around, etc...
It's a daemon bound in a sword, destroy the physical presence of the sword, release the daemon. Hide it in Jupiter, well I'm sure a daemon who can distort space and time can go there and get it, or the sword can probably find it's way into someone or somethings hands by itself.
As for the sororitas thing, lolwut? you cannot be serious about that...
All I'm saying is anything with the moxey to eat Jupiter or re-arrange time in order to get at a sword could probably handle a Grey Knight. Yes stars explode and planets die, but how long does a space marine live? Especialy one that fights all the time.
Leigen_Zero wrote:It's a daemon bound in a sword, destroy the physical presence of the sword, release the daemon. Hide it in Jupiter, well I'm sure a daemon who can distort space and time can go there and get it, or the sword can probably find it's way into someone or somethings hands by itself.
As for the sororitas thing, lolwut? you cannot be serious about that...
Yes he can. Page 15 of the new GK Codex, section labelled "876.M41 The Bloodtide Returns".
As for the Daemonblade, all they need to do to destroy it is borrow a wraithcannon from some Eldar and use it to send one half of the blade into the warp. That'd be a broken sword. Other possible solutions include:
Give it to Draigo, he seems to be doing pretty OK in the Warp...
Take it to the Emperor and let him mindbeam it into oblivion
Ask the Collegia Titanica to use it for target practice
Ask the Imperial Navy to use it for target practice
Use some handwavium to generate enough antimatter to annihalate (literally!) the sword
Cannibal wrote:Sombody told me today that they read the new GK codex and relayed a very vexing story to me. According to him, there's some background where a group of Grey Knights comes to a world where an artifact has corrupted it's inhabitants by chaos. There is an Adepta Sororitas convent on this planet, however the battle sisters have not been corrupted due to their faith and purity. The first thing the GK's do is slaughter the sisters, desecrate the bodies, and smear their blood all over themselves before purging the rest of the planet. Ok, so the murder of faithful ecclesiarchy aside, when did the noble Grey Knights start covering themselves with the blood of their innocent victims? If this is true it seems like Khorne would really approve of Grey Knights.
.
Aaaugh... yes 40k is an overly grimdark, hopeless universe, but this? This just goes straight into Wall Banger territory.
Maybe he's trying to justify that the pure blood of the sisters acted as protection against the daemonic (which the GK woulden't need anyway).......that just sounds slowed though
Oh god... I read the story on page 15... it's just so utterly horrible. I mean, I knew Ward was bad. Like, really fething bad. But this is beyond anything he's ever done. I mean, he bent the Grey Knights over and screwed them straight up the rear with no lube, we all knew that the moment we heard his name, but this is like doing it with a pinecone.
I mean... this is just disgusting at the point. It goes beyond simple nerd rage now. I mean, going beyond all the incredibly mysogynistic subtext from that story, it's just so god damn bad.
Absolutely. It goes against all the fluff, even contradicting the fluff established in the same god damn book (ie, why the hell do they need to rub up in sister blood when the Aegis is the bees knees of daemon snubbery?), it's terribly written, and it's absurdly mysogynistic. It's a completely new low, and I really hope that it's never surpassed by GW.
I don't know. I'm too scared to touch the fluff portions of the book. I may do it later in a drunken haze (to numb the pain I would feel to read it), but now my mind is too clear to take on such a challenge.
blood reaper wrote:Is there any other really bad Grey Knight fluff?
Read the section on Lord Kaldor "I Fight Chaos and Doesn't Afraid of Anything" Draigo, or perhaps the part where Titan (the moon) flies through the warp while the GK's build their forces and appears just after the 2nd founding with *gasp* exactly 1000 Marines, just like a Codex Chapter!
Whether the rules within the GK Codex are good or not is kind've irrelevant at this point - Ward has destroyed the Grey Knight soul, forever taking away from them what they used to be.
Fafnir wrote:I don't know. I'm too scared to touch the fluff portions of the book. I may do it later in a drunken haze (to numb the pain I would feel to read it), but now my mind is too clear to take on such a challenge.
If it makes you feel better, that part was probably the most fethed up part of it all. Not saying that the rest is "good" or even "almost OK" though...
"HURR! I iz Castellan of da Purifuherz and I'z got diz here daemonbladez! HURR!" is kinda fail too...
My personal favourite to think about is purifiers.
All grey knights are pure, but purifiers are purer than greyknights and Draigo and Castellan are purer than them!
I didn't know you could be purer than pure but somehow you can according to Mr Ward
I beleive there is some sort of respawning character, some guy haunted by ghost terminators, Grey knights keeping a Daemon head in their fortress that is still possesed, along with other silly things
Discipline my ass, these guys shouldve been corrupted by chaos long ago, if Matt Wards fluff is anything to go by
Someone above said keep him out of Black Library? I say move him there, where he can't hurt the backaground anymore,except in his own books like Goto does
Technically, "Ward happened" IS an explanation. So many people have complained about his fluff-writing that he's a Warhammer Meme all his own. It's at the point of you don't need to explain "Ward" anymore, just like you don't have to explain why 2+2=4. Ward+Fluff=Abomination. It's fact, and doesn't need to be explained each time.
timetowaste85 wrote:Technically, "Ward happened" IS an explanation. So many people have complained about his fluff-writing that he's a Warhammer Meme all his own. It's at the point of you don't need to explain "Ward" anymore, just like you don't have to explain why 2+2=4. Ward+Fluff=Abomination. It's fact, and doesn't need to be explained each time.
How did this get into the printing? Did no one edit / fact check this? Or with the departure of certain long standing GW figures turn into a case of "write what ever fluff you want, I don't care anymore" point of view?
When the Necron book arrives I'm going to go through it with a 6 pack in hand and a tissue box, so I can drunkenly cry to myself at what my metal horrors have become.
"Necrons, a dead race that is more dead than anyone else. So dead that they rebuild themselves just to die again!"
Kurgash wrote:When the Necron book arrives I'm going to go through it with a 6 pack in hand and a tissue box, so I can drunkenly cry to myself at what my metal horrors have become.
"Necrons, a dead race that is more dead than anyone else. So dead that they rebuild themselves just to die again!"
It will be worse. The fluff will points out every 3 lines or so how silent and creepy and scary are the Necrons.
Fafnir wrote:I don't know. I'm too scared to touch the fluff portions of the book. I may do it later in a drunken haze (to numb the pain I would feel to read it), but now my mind is too clear to take on such a challenge.
Just go to your local bar, murder everyone there, and bathe in the blood of the drunken. That'll protect you, right?
Edit: Wow that sentence sounds really bad out of context.
Kurgash wrote:When the Necron book arrives I'm going to go through it with a 6 pack in hand and a tissue box, so I can drunkenly cry to myself at what my metal horrors have become.
"Necrons, a dead race that is more dead than anyone else. So dead that they rebuild themselves just to die again!"
It will be worse. The fluff will points out every 3 lines or so how silent and creepy and scary are the Necrons.
Nah, I bet it shows how the 'crons learned a thing or two and now organize themselves by the codex astartes.
If it comes to that then I'll just use the Fall of Damnos book to base how my background is. Royal houses, nobility, armies of the plebeians sent to their deaths with little care. The good stuff.
Be interesting if Matt Ward was the April fools joke this year, and that the grey knight codex wasn't really coming out. And that the lore was just a bunch of April fools joke.
Be interesting if Matt Ward was the April fools joke this year, and that the grey knight codex wasn't really coming out. And that the lore was just a bunch of April fools joke.
Ain't that the truth. Somehow though, I feel that after today we will all be sorely let down by the fact he really is still working with GW, and still will be writing tripe for many years to come.
But wouldn't it be funny if today he was fired?
"Hey Matt, you're fired!"
"HAHA, good one guys, april fools!"
"You can get your things together and have to be out of the office by 3. Just kidding. Now. April fools Matt."
Be interesting if Matt Ward was the April fools joke this year, and that the grey knight codex wasn't really coming out. And that the lore was just a bunch of April fools joke.
Ain't that the truth. Somehow though, I feel that after today we will all be sorely let down by the fact he really is still working with GW, and still will be writing tripe for many years to come.
But wouldn't it be funny if today he was fired?
"Hey Matt, you're fired!"
"HAHA, good one guys, april fools!"
"You can get your things together and have to be out of the office by 3. Just kidding. Now. April fools Matt."
"By the way we are burning all the codexes and clip notes you made. The biggest pieces of gak of all time."
"By the way we are burning all the codexes and clip notes you made. The biggest pieces of gak of all time."
"Who will replace me?"
*Dark Lord Sean walks in.*
"I will!"
Could you imagine the recall on all Matt Ward corrupted products? It would be like a modern day theft of a pharaoh's tomb. He'll be buried alright, but with none of his riches from this life, he will go to the afterlife with nothing to comfort him. It's the best we can hope for his eventual demise.
KingDeath wrote:You know what is realy fun? The vanilla codex seems to be almost tame compared to some of Ward's later writings.
Yeah I agree with you. But let us not forget that he was under the eye of not only 75% of the Space Marine players in GW, who kept giving him crap for writing something stupid.
Cannibal wrote: The first thing the GK's do is slaughter the sisters, desecrate the bodies, and smear their blood all over themselves before purging the rest of the planet. Ok, so the murder of faithful ecclesiarchy aside, when did the noble Grey Knights start covering themselves with the blood of their innocent victims? If this is true it seems like Khorne would really approve of Grey Knights.
Are we being serious? Did this actually happen? That makes me a little ill...if I ever found those Grey Knights I would personally throw every one of them into the eye of terror. Hopefully they'd find their way to the planet that Tuska the Demon-Killa was on. Good fething luck, boys.
That's not the way things should be. At all. This sounds like the work of the Blood pact, or Chaos Space Marines, or Daemons.
But Grey Knights? God...that makes me question my whole interest in them.
I'm so glad ward isn't writing the Sororitas codex. You'd have a sister slaying abbadon and then gakking on his corpse before they all went home and did drunk disco dancing.
Yeah, it's probably be along the lines 'Battle Sister Token is renouned for single handedly killing Nurgle and the Nightbringer, blowing up the eldar craftworlds, slapping Abadon into a black hole and then kicking the Emporer off the golden throne, taking his place and wiping out chaos in three seconds" and of course if anyone asked him why he's simply say "It'd have been a shame if I didn't", which seems to be his excuse to all his feth ups
Kurgash wrote:When the Necron book arrives I'm going to go through it with a 6 pack in hand and a tissue box, so I can drunkenly cry to myself at what my metal horrors have become.
"Necrons, a dead race that is more dead than anyone else. So dead that they rebuild themselves just to die again!"
I'm so glad ward isn't writing the Sororitas codex. You'd have a sister slaying abbadon and then gakking on his corpse before they all went home and did drunk disco dancing.
Is this a terrible April Fools prank? I feel like we're missing something critical here. The SOB are also super zealous crusaders of righteousness, and if they weren't corrupted shouldn't they have teamed up, why kill potential allies? I mean GK do that (or mind-scrub them) but that's usually after the fight.
The Grey Knights omnibus is one of my fav BL books and it was the reason i was going to buy a few GK's to paint them into the squads named in the book and maybe play a few games, after reading this im not sure i want to. I'd ask has ward buggered up the entire fluff but its a stupid question really, a sensible one would be has ward wrote something thats not bog roll?
Why doesnt some one start a petition to GW to have him stopped from ruining everything he he touches, i mean damn near every one thinks hes a terrible writer.
So in this story did the GK actually fall to chaos, then decide to kill the SOB? I find that more believeable than regular ole GK deciding to kill some sisters for fun.
I used to think Ward was a harmless fanboy with a hard-on for SM and BA, but now I realize he's a truley awful addition to the GW team.
This is beyond bad, even for him, Matt just upped the ante in an accidental (or maybe intentional!) attempt to piss off every player who previously loved the Grey Knights' fluff.
I mean, why, in the Emperor's name, would GREY KNIGHTS, the un-corruptable epiphany of Space Marines, kill Sisters of Battle?!
gloomygrim wrote:
Why doesnt some one start a petition to GW to have him stopped from ruining everything he he touches, i mean damn near every one thinks hes a terrible writer.
Cannibal wrote:Sombody told me today that they read the new GK codex and relayed a very vexing story to me. According to him, there's some background where a group of Grey Knights comes to a world where an artifact has corrupted it's inhabitants by chaos. There is an Adepta Sororitas convent on this planet, however the battle sisters have not been corrupted due to their faith and purity. The first thing the GK's do is slaughter the sisters, desecrate the bodies, and smear their blood all over themselves before purging the rest of the planet. Ok, so the murder of faithful ecclesiarchy aside, when did the noble Grey Knights start covering themselves with the blood of their innocent victims? If this is true it seems like Khorne would really approve of Grey Knights.
God that's just awful. What happened to grey knights being noble, incorruptible, uber psychic badasses like when I first read about them in Space Hulk? There seems to be a lot more of this stuff about the various, originally lawful, imperial groups slaughtering civilians than years ago. Yeah the inquisition are a dodgy bunch but the Grey Knights are supposed to be lawful-good IMO. Space Marines mass murdering innocents is more 'grimdark' I guess, entertaining for the kiddies that thing it's 'kewl'. Aren't the Marines supposed to be the good guys? Sorry for being old fashioned, but the space marines are supposed to be like medieval knights who do not needlessly slaughter their own people, leave that to the ones that have actually turned to chaos.
Yeah I don't see the point of this at all. The 40K universe is already layered with plenty of shades of grey, I was fine with Grey Knights being the unemotional paladins that do The Right Thing no matter what.
Killing a bunch of Sisters who had resisted and painting themselves with their blood? WTF.
There has been bad fluff before. But that takes the biscuit and the teabags too.
gloomygrim wrote: Why doesnt some one start a petition to GW to have him stopped from ruining everything he he touches, i mean damn near every one thinks hes a terrible writer.
Leigen_Zero wrote:It's a daemon bound in a sword, destroy the physical presence of the sword, release the daemon. Hide it in Jupiter, well I'm sure a daemon who can distort space and time can go there and get it, or the sword can probably find it's way into someone or somethings hands by itself.
As for the sororitas thing, lolwut? you cannot be serious about that...
Yes he can. Page 15 of the new GK Codex, section labelled "876.M41 The Bloodtide Returns".
As for the Daemonblade, all they need to do to destroy it is borrow a wraithcannon from some Eldar and use it to send one half of the blade into the warp. That'd be a broken sword. Other possible solutions include:
Give it to Draigo, he seems to be doing pretty OK in the Warp...
Take it to the Emperor and let him mindbeam it into oblivion
Ask the Collegia Titanica to use it for target practice
Ask the Imperial Navy to use it for target practice
Use some handwavium to generate enough antimatter to annihalate (literally!) the sword
Or give it to Valdor. He DID after all beat HORUS in a sparring match. You Horus, the GREATEST OF THE PRIMARCHS WHO ALMOST KILLED THE EMPEROR?
Also, Lysander was trapped in the Warp for 1000 years, and came out as pure as the Emperor's throne, so I seriously doubt it could corrupt him. Also, ain't nothing gon' beat Lysander! I mean, going into battle w/ super-slow moving armour painted bright yellow you would need balls like watermelons, which isn't impossible considering we don't know everything about Astartes physiology.
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Da Boss wrote:Yeah I don't see the point of this at all. The 40K universe is already layered with plenty of shades of grey, I was fine with Grey Knights being the unemotional paladins that do The Right Thing no matter what.
Killing a bunch of Sisters who had resisted and painting themselves with their blood? WTF.
There has been bad fluff before. But that takes the biscuit and the teabags too.
Yeah...the blood painting seems kinda un-GK, although it isn't the first time they've fought the sisters. Did anyone read their Omnibus?
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Footsloggin wrote:This is beyond bad, even for him, Matt just upped the ante in an accidental (or maybe intentional!) attempt to piss off every player who previously loved the Grey Knights' fluff.
I mean, why, in the Emperor's name, would GREY KNIGHTS, the un-corruptable epiphany of Space Marines, kill Sisters of Battle?!
EDIT: Grammar failure...
I think you mean Epitome of SM, not Epiphany of SMlol!
As far as Matt Wards decision to even write that garbage, it's an obvious ploy to plant the seeds of doubt that will grow into a big "what if pink elephants were really blue" tree, so he can create a blip in the radar and pat himself on the back to be the first one to go against the norm and 'shake things up' at old GW. It's the only reason I can see why he does the things he does. He knows eventually GW old timers will retire, so he's biding his time so he can change the grim dark universe with good story, into a grim dark strung out from overdosing on crack with a bunch of Ork boyz who ate too many mushrooms and wrote poetry with a bunch of sopping sad Eldar Harlequins. Good Greif.
Gorgarak wrote:I signed the petition. Someone should make a thread about it in all Dakka forums.
I put it in dakka discussions, though if someone wants to put it anywhere else that would be great (unsure where else I should put it without it being moved)
Also I know this seems bleak, but I'm willing to bet this won't be the worst thing he writes before he's fired or leaves of his own free will (which at the moment, unless something is done about him, seems the likelier option, heck he'll probably leave claiming that he's too good at fluff writing to work for GW anymore knowing him). Knowing him I wouldn't be surprised if next codex he goes back to the whole 40K is fantasy in space idea and turns the Kroot into space skaven and makes Imperial Guard giants and Dragon Ogryns
Seriously WHAT?! How can this crap be quality approved? Do they even check it after Matt Ward submits a draft?
If he tries to pull this sort of stuff when he gets around to the templar codex, I will NOT be impressed. I may even go as far to say that i'd retire them. It would sicken me if the fluff for my beloved chapter degraded to this trash.
I am unfortunately here to say that it has come down to this... We must do something which has never been done up until now, something which has been a failsafe button in the event of "OMG DEAR GOD MATT WARD SERIOUSLY SCREWED UP AN ENTIRE ARMY'S BACKGROUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", since yakface took over the website... It is time for the civil union of all remaining sane members of all WH40k forums (those who have not stabbed their eyes out that is), to consult upon further action as to how to destroy this abomination of which Ward has created...
UGH. Matt Ward does not even know general fluff. Reading Draigo's fluff profile, it says M'Kar is a daemon prince, when, if I remember correctly, M'kar was the bloodthirster who fought Sanguinius multiple times. I love the models, I love the concept of the GK, but damnit I hate the new fluff.
We hate you Matt Ward. Go make like a purifier and burn yourself.
Brother-Thunder wrote:UGH. Matt Ward does not even know general fluff. Reading Draigo's fluff profile, it says M'Kar is a daemon prince, when, if I remember correctly, M'kar was the bloodthirster who fought Sanguinius multiple times. I love the models, I love the concept of the GK, but damnit I hate the new fluff.
We hate you Matt Ward. Go make like a purifier and burn yourself.
Brother-Thunder wrote:UGH. Matt Ward does not even know general fluff. Reading Draigo's fluff profile, it says M'Kar is a daemon prince, when, if I remember correctly, M'kar was the bloodthirster who fought Sanguinius multiple times. I love the models, I love the concept of the GK, but damnit I hate the new fluff.
We hate you Matt Ward. Go make like a purifier and burn yourself.
You remember incorrectly. That bloodthirster was named Ka'Bandha. M'kar the Reborn has already been established as a notorious daemon prince.
Footsloggin wrote:I am unfortunately here to say that it has come down to this... We must do something which has never been done up until now, something which has been a failsafe button in the event of "OMG DEAR GOD MATT WARD SERIOUSLY SCREWED UP AN ENTIRE ARMY'S BACKGROUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", since yakface took over the website... It is time for the civil union of all remaining sane members of all WH40k forums (those who have not stabbed their eyes out that is), to consult upon further action as to how to destroy this abomination of which Ward has created...
+1 for being as epic as Epic Meal Time.
I think that whenever Matt Ward submits anything, GW should tell him that they accepted his fluff, while secretly getting Andy Hoare to check for grammar mistakes and bs...
Or they could tell that man to write an ending to WH40k (yes, an ending) per faction and while he spends 15 years like that, they go about there business and when he finishes feed it to Charlie Sheen.
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Raxmei wrote:
Brother-Thunder wrote:UGH. Matt Ward does not even know general fluff. Reading Draigo's fluff profile, it says M'Kar is a daemon prince, when, if I remember correctly, M'kar was the bloodthirster who fought Sanguinius multiple times. I love the models, I love the concept of the GK, but damnit I hate the new fluff.
We hate you Matt Ward. Go make like a purifier and burn yourself.
You remember incorrectly. That bloodthirster was named Ka'Bandha. M'kar the Reborn has already been established as a notorious daemon prince.
Brother-Thunder, it's ironic that you made that mistake in a post about som1 else not knowing their fluff...
Sorry, I had to post again. I'm the kind of person that doesn't let himself get too sucked into something. Generally, the one piece of 40k literature I let myself fall into are the Gaunt's Ghosts novels. But this just hit me real hard. I know that the whole background universe is supposed to be "grim and dark" but even still, they're have to be those paragons that everyone aspires to. Grey Knights were one of those paragons, the Sisters were another, and even individuals within the Imperial Guard.
Thinking about it as a member of the Astartes, or the Sisters, or the IG...how devastating would that be to hear that news? Feth, why not just take your own las gun and shove it in your mouth?
Fafnir wrote:Absolutely. It goes against all the fluff, even contradicting the fluff established in the same god damn book (ie, why the hell do they need to rub up in sister blood when the Aegis is the bees knees of daemon snubbery?), it's terribly written, and it's absurdly mysogynistic. It's a completely new low, and I really hope that it's never surpassed by GW.
Thats the point. Ward is trying to add depth to the galaxy, I.E. - there is more to the story than we know, and not all things are as they appear. However, a good author (like the ones that were around during 3rd/4th ed) would be more subtle with their attempts to create depth, whereas Ward packs all the subtlety of a 60 foot monkey that shoots eye lasers and gaks atom bombs. I mean, I can see GK slaughtering SoB, the whole 'no witnesses' concept is nothing new, but smearing their blood on their armor, etc.? thats a bit much...
Fafnir wrote:Absolutely. It goes against all the fluff, even contradicting the fluff established in the same god damn book (ie, why the hell do they need to rub up in sister blood when the Aegis is the bees knees of daemon snubbery?), it's terribly written, and it's absurdly mysogynistic. It's a completely new low, and I really hope that it's never surpassed by GW.
Thats the point. Ward is trying to add depth to the galaxy, I.E. - there is more to the story than we know, and not all things are as they appear. However, a good author (like the ones that were around during 3rd/4th ed) would be more subtle with their attempts to create depth, whereas Ward packs all the subtlety of a 60 foot monkey that shoots eye lasers and gaks atom bombs. I mean, I can see GK slaughtering SoB, the whole 'no witnesses' concept is nothing new, but smearing their blood on their armor, etc.? thats a bit much...
Seems like a heretical thing to me. So I will call this codex. Codex Hersey Wards
Hell, even then, GK and Sisters have worked together quite a bit in the past, so of all the factions the Sisters (along with non-GK marines) are the faction most likely to NOT be killed.
Melissia wrote:Hell, even then, GK and Sisters have worked together quite a bit in the past, so of all the factions the Sisters (along with non-GK marines) are the faction most likely to NOT be killed.
If matt ward says, they also have killed a crimson fists company after the Rynns world incident. Get your damn clubs. As there is only 1 damn company left.
gpfunk wrote:Sorry, I had to post again. I'm the kind of person that doesn't let himself get too sucked into something. Generally, the one piece of 40k literature I let myself fall into are the Gaunt's Ghosts novels. But this just hit me real hard. I know that the whole background universe is supposed to be "grim and dark" but even still, they're have to be those paragons that everyone aspires to. Grey Knights were one of those paragons, the Sisters were another, and even individuals within the Imperial Guard.
Also, the Tau used to be too nice, offering peace to all they saw. Then Courage and Honour happened *spits*
If you don't like the codex, then speak with your wallet, not on the forum. Don't buy it, or, at least, don't pay money for it. Donate $35 to your FLGS and just borrow the store copy if you desperately need to read it and/or support your FLGS.
Then write an honest, well-thought-out letter to GW expressing why you didn't buy it - that you thought the fluff was poorly written, to OTT, that you were disappointed in yet another Marine Book, etc.
Ultimately, if you really want Matt Ward gone, don't support his products. That will get him removed from codex writing faster and more effectively than any amount of bitching on a forum.
KestrelM1 wrote:If you don't like the codex, then speak with your wallet, not on the forum. Don't buy it, or, at least, don't pay money for it. Donate $35 to your FLGS and just borrow the store copy if you desperately need to read it and/or support your FLGS.
Then write an honest, well-thought-out letter to GW expressing why you didn't buy it - that you thought the fluff was poorly written, to OTT, that you were disappointed in yet another Marine Book, etc.
Ultimately, if you really want Matt Ward gone, don't support his products. That will get him removed from codex writing faster and more effectively than any amount of bitching on a forum.
chaos0xomega wrote:
Thats the point. Ward is trying to add depth to the galaxy, I.E. - there is more to the story than we know, and not all things are as they appear. However, a good author (like the ones that were around during 3rd/4th ed) would be more subtle with their attempts to create depth, whereas Ward packs all the subtlety of a 60 foot monkey that shoots eye lasers and gaks atom bombs. I mean, I can see GK slaughtering SoB, the whole 'no witnesses' concept is nothing new, but smearing their blood on their armor, etc.? thats a bit much...
For a good example of how to do this, read the short story by Ben Counter in Victories of the Space Marines. The story of the Grey Knights serves as a frame for vignettes revealing the morally challenging actions that are taken just to equip a Grey Knight properly.
Spoiler:
To sanctify each bolter round, an innocent's blood must be shed. One nice touch is the priest pointing out that the blood of a heretic has no value. The innocent in question submits to death to preserve the life of a loved one.
Spoiler:
A psyker psychically escapes her confinement on one of the Black Ships, and learns that psychics onboard are to be used to forge the wards on a single suit of Aegis armor. She accepts her fate, and provides those around her with a comforting fiction instead.
It shows that it is possible to depict a morally complex, morally ambiguous Grey Knights chapter, without being crass, insensitive, stupid, or over the top. The innocent must not only suffer because there is evil in the universe, but it appears that the innocent might have to suffer to allow that evil to be opposed. I suspect that in the hands of a good, nuanced writer, it would be possible to present a situation where the only way to prevent a daemonic manifestation is to sacrifice a convent of Sororitas. After all, we all know that entire populations are exterminated to prevent some significant daemonic threats. However, if the wrong person writes this, it comes across as
"We are so hard-core bad@$$ that we have to do murder and stuff to do our jobs. No big deal, cuz we are so extreme!".
chaos0xomega wrote:
Thats the point. Ward is trying to add depth to the galaxy, I.E. - there is more to the story than we know, and not all things are as they appear. However, a good author (like the ones that were around during 3rd/4th ed) would be more subtle with their attempts to create depth, whereas Ward packs all the subtlety of a 60 foot monkey that shoots eye lasers and gaks atom bombs. I mean, I can see GK slaughtering SoB, the whole 'no witnesses' concept is nothing new, but smearing their blood on their armor, etc.? thats a bit much...
For a good example of how to do this, read the short story by Ben Counter in Victories of the Space Marines. The story of the Grey Knights serves as a frame for vignettes revealing the morally challenging actions that are taken just to equip a Grey Knight properly.
Spoiler:
To sanctify each bolter round, an innocent's blood must be shed. One nice touch is the priest pointing out that the blood of a heretic has no value. The innocent in question submits to death to preserve the life of a loved one.
Spoiler:
A psyker psychically escapes her confinement on one of the Black Ships, and learns that psychics onboard are to be used to forge the wards on a single suit of Aegis armor. She accepts her fate, and provides those around her with a comforting fiction instead.
It shows that it is possible to depict a morally complex, morally ambiguous Grey Knights chapter, without being crass, insensitive, stupid, or over the top. The innocent must not only suffer because there is evil in the universe, but it appears that the innocent might have to suffer to allow that evil to be opposed. I suspect that in the hands of a good, nuanced writer, it would be possible to present a situation where the only way to prevent a daemonic manifestation is to sacrifice a convent of Sororitas. After all, we all know that entire populations are exterminated to prevent some significant daemonic threats. However, if the wrong person writes this, it comes across as
"We are so hard-core bad@$$ that we have to do murder and stuff to do our jobs. No big deal, cuz we are so extreme!".
Yeah but its ben counter all of his grey knight books ARE AMAZING. Why didn't he write the codex again?
Indeed. If it had said the Sororitas had willingly laid down their lives in such a way, that would have been different. Martyrdom is a common theme with Sorortias as they are right now.
But simply saying that they slaughtered them, desecrated their corpses, then painted their blood onto the GK's armor... just makes them sound like khornate berzerkers.
Melissia wrote:Indeed. If it had said the Sororitas had willingly laid down their lives in such a way, that would have been different. Martyrdom is a common theme with Sorortias as they are right now.
But simply saying that they slaughtered them, desecrated their corpses, then painted their blood onto the GK's armor... just makes them sound like khornate berzerkers.
And it's another example of the Sororitas being used as the fluff punching bag.
If GK DID start worshiping Khorne, would they be anathema to themselves? That we be freaky: "AAAAAAAGH! It BURNS! TAKE IT OFF!"
"Take what off?"
"MY SKINNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Well he's already rumored to be dong Necrons so expect to see Necrons which can speak, who are run on solar power despite remaining underground much of the time, whose metal is blue and gold and who bow down if an Ultramarine walks past. Oh and who are friends with the Dark Eldar and the Emperor's Children
I kinda feel sorry for Matt Ward...
In his mind i suppose he thinks he is doing a good job.
At least the fluff is... imaginative though admittedly to the point of creating an entirely new universe all together.
Murdock129 wrote:Well he's already rumored to be dong Necrons so expect to see Necrons which can speak, who are run on solar power despite remaining underground much of the time, whose metal is blue and gold and who bow down if an Ultramarine walks past. Oh and who are friends with the Dark Eldar and the Emperor's Children
Necron Lords can speak. It is possible that immortals might be able to as well.
The latest Necron book, the Fall of Damnos, has UM vs Necrons. The Ultras get crushed.
Fafnir wrote:I don't know. I'm too scared to touch the fluff portions of the book. I may do it later in a drunken haze (to numb the pain I would feel to read it), but now my mind is too clear to take on such a challenge.
If it makes you feel better, that part was probably the most fethed up part of it all. Not saying that the rest is "good" or even "almost OK" though...
"HURR! I iz Castellan of da Purifuherz and I'z got diz here daemonbladez! HURR!" is kinda fail too...
"and so calling upon the emperors power the Adeptas Sororitas teleport into Titans HQ and slaughtering all Brother Captains and Initiates, while the Witch Hunter inquisitors counter any and all psychic powers from space. They make all their invulnerable saves, with minimal casualties... Just then....all five C'tan come and eats everyone but gets removed from play from a last stand of brother captain Stern. Then some Daemons appear on the sisters of battle homeworld and every other world and the universe ends. The emperor awakens bla bla bla....." to be continuedin the next codex
Murdock129 wrote:Well he's already rumored to be dong Necrons so expect to see Necrons which can speak, who are run on solar power despite remaining underground much of the time, whose metal is blue and gold and who bow down if an Ultramarine walks past. Oh and who are friends with the Dark Eldar and the Emperor's Children
Necron Lords can speak. It is possible that immortals might be able to as well.
The latest Necron book, the Fall of Damnos, has UM vs Necrons. The Ultras get crushed.
And the Necrons all hate each other and have internal politics. So much win
just incase it hasn't been covered the sword always returns since its pure warpstuff and technically a daemon right so no matter how many times it gets lost or broken it comes back?
and asfar as i know didn't they kill the SoB so they could go through the warp inferno without losing any battle brothers to taint or mutation?
"Mr ward.... for your crimes against the emperor, his servants, and "Mehreen lovin fans" you shall be punished accordingly, and have administed the rites of Arco-Flagellation. may you serve the emperor now, as you failed to do as a fluff writer."
For those that are really this pissed off about Ward and what he has/hasn't done regarding the Fluff, I highly suggest you contact GW directly. Letters, and faxes have a way of making it to the leadership of these corporations.
Meaning, you want this guy fired? Say something, nothing will change if people don't speak up. Enough angry fans worries the fat guys on top, and their shareholders.
Backlash from War I'd see coming is something along the lines of "Well this is Grimdark... it happens, we'll kiddie it up for you next time around" so if you do write a letter or send a email, be more descriptive then "This sucks and Ward is the devil" state what you don't like, why grimdark =/= misogynistic crap that completely negates the fluff spewed out of his back end.
Very little bothers me in literature or film, I think this goes for most of us with how desensitized we all are thanks to the internet. But being "edgy" just to do it is fracking slowed. And then when it's poorly executed and trashy on top of it....
Games Workshop Customer Services
6211 East Holmes Road
Memphis
TN, 38141
USA
E-MAIL
Custserv@games-workshop.com
I couldn't find the contact info for GWUK or other places. But should be easy enough if your local.
Signed the petition, after reading these 5 pages I'm now uncertain as to whether I should stick my fingers in my ears over the whole new codex issue, the horror.........
Hmm maybe I should get the GK codex just for the fun of it, and maybe feel better about some of my BA fluff. With all this talk about it, its kinda like when ther's an accident... you dont want to look but you HAVE TO.
Murdock129 wrote:Well he's already rumored to be dong Necrons so expect to see Necrons which can speak, who are run on solar power despite remaining underground much of the time, whose metal is blue and gold and who bow down if an Ultramarine walks past.
As others have pointed out, there, is no reason to believe Necrons can't speak, at least some of them. As for the blue and gold armor, the cron on the front of the current codex has blue and gold in his armor...perhaps they knew what was coming?
Lysander needs to introduce our *friend* Matt Ward to the painglove...MAXIMUM POWER BWAHAHA
Automatically Appended Next Post: I sent an enourmous e-mail to GW complaining about Matt Ward's Fucktardedness as well as a link to this forum and a link to the gallery of disaster. Hope it works!
Murdock129 wrote:Well he's already rumored to be dong Necrons so expect to see Necrons which can speak, who are run on solar power despite remaining underground much of the time, whose metal is blue and gold and who bow down if an Ultramarine walks past.
As others have pointed out, there, is no reason to believe Necrons can't speak, at least some of them. As for the blue and gold armor, the cron on the front of the current codex has blue and gold in his armor...perhaps they knew what was coming?
Though Necrons will start to done Power Armor, worship "Teh Empra!", and then a Necron Lord will pull out his Warscythe, and slice TWO Daemon Primarchs in half, AT THE SAME TIME!!! Lololololol OTT for the win!!! Go Matt Ward!
im2randomghgh wrote:Lysander needs to introduce our *friend* Matt Ward to the painglove...MAXIMUM POWER BWAHAHA
Automatically Appended Next Post: I sent an enourmous e-mail to GW complaining about Matt Ward's Fucktardedness as well as a link to this forum and a link to the gallery of disaster. Hope it works!
You did what? Bad idea. BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD IDEA
YOU DID WHAT!!!!!!! Oh God, everyone, get your Storm Shields, we are going to have to hold the gates...
And, if anyone from GW actually reads this:
Why, is there ANY necessity for Matt Ward to write this kind of stuff? I mean, anyone who has read the codex prior (See C: Daemonhunters) KNOWS that the GK are the ultimate Badasses of the 40K Universe. However, turning them insane, having them murder loyal followers of the Emperor, and then bathe in their blood, is beyond what most of those who read the Daemonhunter's codex can tolerate.
Sckitzo wrote:why grimdark =/= misogynistic crap that completely negates the fluff spewed out of his back end.
While I dislike this piece of fluff, I'd like to hear your reasoning on how it is misogynistic. Nothing I've heard about it suggests it had anything to do with their gender.
Would it be possible for anyone to directly quote some of the fluff pieces? That might help clear up any misunderstanding.
Footsloggin wrote:YOU DID WHAT!!!!!!! Oh God, everyone, get your Storm Shields, we are going to have to hold the gates...
And, if anyone from GW actually reads this:
Why, is there ANY necessity for Matt Ward to write this kind of stuff? I mean, anyone who has read the codex prior (See C: Daemonhunters) KNOWS that the GK are the ultimate Badasses of the 40K Universe. However, turning them insane, having them murder loyal followers of the Emperor, and then bathe in their blood, is beyond what most of those who read the Daemonhunter's codex can tolerate.
I would just like to point out that CUSTODES are the ultimate badasses of the 40K Universe, as it was mentioned on warhammer40k.wikia.com that custodes are to SM what SM are to guard. Valdor, physically the same as the other custodes, beat Horus Lupercal in a sparring match.
Sckitzo wrote:why grimdark =/= misogynistic crap that completely negates the fluff spewed out of his back end.
While I dislike this piece of fluff, I'd like to hear your reasoning on how it is misogynistic. Nothing I've heard about it suggests it had anything to do with their gender.
Would it be possible for anyone to directly quote some of the fluff pieces? That might help clear up any misunderstanding.
I would quote it, but:
a) It offends my eyes
b) There's no point, as it is in no way misogynistic. Just REALLY sh*t.
Please, Please, tell me that when there is a new sister's codex that Ward is not allowed to write it...
Could you imagine if he did? He'd prob create a story where a cannoness burned at the stake because she was caught giving an 'agressive' dance to the golden throne, and deemed she was posessed by Slaanesh. After this all sisters would revolt and decide to leave the emperors service and become an outlaw band of lesbian bikers, spending time hanging out with remaining Squat bands, eventually growing beards and being assimilating into their culture.
Please, Please, tell me that when there is a new sister's codex that Ward is not allowed to write it...
Could you imagine if he did? He'd prob create a story where a cannoness burned at the stake because she was caught giving an 'agressive' dance to the golden throne, and deemed she was posessed by Slaanesh. After this all sisters would revolt and decide to leave the emperors service and become an outlaw band of lesbian bikers, spending time hanging out with remaining Squat bands, eventually growing beards and being assimilating into their culture.
Please, Please, tell me that when there is a new sister's codex that Ward is not allowed to write it...
Could you imagine if he did? He'd prob create a story where a cannoness burned at the stake because she was caught giving an 'agressive' dance to the golden throne, and deemed she was posessed by Slaanesh. After this all sisters would revolt and decide to leave the emperors service and become an outlaw band of lesbian bikers, spending time hanging out with remaining Squat bands, eventually growing beards and being assimilating into their culture.
Sounds about right.
Nah, much more probably they'd defeat the Custodes and the adeptus terra, impressed by their abilities and convinced of their fatih would promote them to the role of the Custodes.
If Ward is one for fanservice, the Custodian Sisters would then continue the tradition of going around bare chested.
Hyper-religious biker girls with little hairy boyfriends
Kididng..
I'd almost rather that they relegate Ward to spellchecking and gopher duties. I doubt it'd happen, and the mis-spelled codecii would drive me nuts anyway
I'm in mourning for my Necrons, and the new dex isn't even slightly out yet
Please, Please, tell me that when there is a new sister's codex that Ward is not allowed to write it...
Could you imagine if he did? He'd prob create a story where a cannoness burned at the stake because she was caught giving an 'agressive' dance to the golden throne, and deemed she was posessed by Slaanesh. After this all sisters would revolt and decide to leave the emperors service and become an outlaw band of lesbian bikers, spending time hanging out with remaining Squat bands, eventually growing beards and being assimilating into their culture.
Sounds about right.
Nah, much more probably they'd defeat the Custodes and the adeptus terra, impressed by their abilities and convinced of their fatih would promote them to the role of the Custodes.
If Ward is one for fanservice, the Custodian Sisters would then continue the tradition of going around bare chested.
IF he did that he would be signing a death warrant. Because Custodes basically are what Space Marines are to guard. The custodes are the greatest and most powerful force ever. And they are true badasses.
What kind of badass doesn't do ANYTHING (asides from that little insident involving a heretic in charge of Terra.. Vandire was it?) for 10,000 years. I mean, wouldn't they just die of failure or something? The greatest warriors in the Imperium.. but they never go out and never kill anything. Bit of a waste, no? //fanfic idea coming on//
Darkvoidof40k wrote:What kind of badass doesn't do ANYTHING (asides from that little insident involving a heretic in charge of Terra.. Vandire was it?) for 10,000 years. I mean, wouldn't they just die of failure or something? The greatest warriors in the Imperium.. but they never go out and never kill anything. Bit of a waste, no? //fanfic idea coming on//
Also, we're talking of Ward. Anything he writes is super uber cool and would totally defeat anything else in the universe. Plus we all know the Custodes are all moping in the palace because not only they can't be Ultramarines, but they are not even true Astartes!
Darkvoidof40k wrote:What kind of badass doesn't do ANYTHING (asides from that little insident involving a heretic in charge of Terra.. Vandire was it?) for 10,000 years. I mean, wouldn't they just die of failure or something? The greatest warriors in the Imperium.. but they never go out and never kill anything. Bit of a waste, no? //fanfic idea coming on//
Also, we're talking of Ward. Anything he writes is super uber cool and would totally defeat anything else in the universe. Plus we all know the Custodes are all moping in the palace because not only they can't be Ultramarines, but they are not even true Astartes!
No they aren't Astrates, They Are custodes the first types of space marines. Any better and they be primarchs.
They are trying to repair the fortress and everything and are guarding the labs and such, plus they have seen quite a few conflicts.
Darkvoidof40k wrote:What kind of badass doesn't do ANYTHING (asides from that little insident involving a heretic in charge of Terra.. Vandire was it?) for 10,000 years. I mean, wouldn't they just die of failure or something? The greatest warriors in the Imperium.. but they never go out and never kill anything. Bit of a waste, no? //fanfic idea coming on//
Also, we're talking of Ward. Anything he writes is super uber cool and would totally defeat anything else in the universe. Plus we all know the Custodes are all moping in the palace because not only they can't be Ultramarines, but they are not even true Astartes!
No they aren't Astrates, They Are custodes the first types of space marines. Any better and they be primarchs.
They are trying to repair the fortress and everything and are guarding the labs and such, plus they have seen quite a few conflicts.
You seem to be lacking the basic understanding of the point of these posts
Yes I know all that.
The point is that if Matt Ward wrote the SoB codex, then the scenario depicted above wouldn't be THAT far fetched.
The good thing is, Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle were being worked on at about the same time (Sisters started six months after Knights), so since Ward is also working on Necrons it's unlikely he also worked on Sisters.
Darkvoidof40k wrote:What kind of badass doesn't do ANYTHING (asides from that little insident involving a heretic in charge of Terra.. Vandire was it?) for 10,000 years. I mean, wouldn't they just die of failure or something? The greatest warriors in the Imperium.. but they never go out and never kill anything. Bit of a waste, no? //fanfic idea coming on//
Also, we're talking of Ward. Anything he writes is super uber cool and would totally defeat anything else in the universe. Plus we all know the Custodes are all moping in the palace because not only they can't be Ultramarines, but they are not even true Astartes!
No they aren't Astrates, They Are custodes the first types of space marines. Any better and they be primarchs.
They are trying to repair the fortress and everything and are guarding the labs and such, plus they have seen quite a few conflicts.
You seem to be lacking the basic understanding of the point of these posts
Yes I know all that.
The point is that if Matt Ward wrote the SoB codex, then the scenario depicted above wouldn't be THAT far fetched.
nah my detector isn't broken I know its scarasm just saying that is my answer, and I would destroy the codex with fire.
Darkvoidof40k wrote:What kind of badass doesn't do ANYTHING (asides from that little insident involving a heretic in charge of Terra.. Vandire was it?) for 10,000 years. I mean, wouldn't they just die of failure or something? The greatest warriors in the Imperium.. but they never go out and never kill anything. Bit of a waste, no? //fanfic idea coming on//
the constant daemon incursions because of Magnus destroying the Emperor's webway project
The Custodes don't deal with those, the emprah does. That's really all he does now, as psykers are drained of their power now to power the astronomicon. That's what the black ships are for. 1,000 psykers sacrificed a day to keep the Emprah alive and 10,000 a day to power the astronomicon,
the constant daemon incursions because of Magnus destroying the Emperor's webway project
The Custodes don't deal with those, the emprah does. That's really all he does now, as psykers are drained of their power now to power the astronomicon. That's what the black ships are for. 1,000 psykers sacrificed a day to keep the Emprah alive and 10,000 a day to power the astronomicon,
Actually sometimes a daemon does get through and the custodes kill it.
Either way... I hope whoever does write the Sisters' next codex keeps in mind this little bit of fluff that is standard for all GW descriptions of Sisters... "[Sisters of Battle] are shining examples of all that is good about humanity".
Sure, that doesn't mean they're unbeatable... but it does mean that they're honestly good people doing their best to keep the Imperium together. Not sadistic dominatrices going around burning entire populations just for the gaks and giggles. Sometimes they fail, sometimes they get mislead and tricked, but in the end they try to do the right thing.
Not Mary Sue so much as tragic heroines (like Blood Angels should be in a sense, in their best fluff).
Also, if Matt Ward ever touches my Tau codex, I will blast his balls off w/ a railgun. The minute he tries, Tau are going to become Xenophobic of everything except Vespid/Kroot who they make babies w/ and railguns will become assault 50 and tau will be able to beat 'nids in melee, and broadsides will fly, and battlesuits will become troops who deploy in squads of 25. Also, he'd probably make you able to fire railgun+submunition. Matt Ward feth off, i thought Fish o' Fury were bad, then you happened.
Thats why I like the Uriel Ventris Books and the Soul Drinker's novels, and the space wolf books.
As they all did something bad and they are trying to make up for it.
Then there is a few other chapters of space marines that just failed but they are picking up and trying to save humanity as best as they can. Making human mistakes. I've always loved the idea of Human Like Demigods basically.
I think anything done by Matt Ward should have to be edited and or fixed and or erased and/or burned by Andy Hoare, he's one of the better codex makers IMHO
im2randomghgh wrote:I think anything done by Matt Ward should have to be edited and or fixed and or erased and/or burned by Andy Hoare, he's one of the better codex makers IMHO
im2randomghgh wrote:I think anything done by Matt Ward should have to be edited and or fixed and or erased and/or burned by Andy Hoare, he's one of the better codex makers IMHO
Can't forget Phil Kelly.
Kelly does good fluff, but I think Andy has better crunch, just an opinion tho.
Melissia wrote:I thought the Custodes participated?
Either way... I hope whoever does write the Sisters' next codex keeps in mind this little bit of fluff that is standard for all GW descriptions of Sisters... "[Sisters of Battle] are shining examples of all that is good about humanity".
Sure, that doesn't mean they're unbeatable... but it does mean that they're honestly good people doing their best to keep the Imperium together. Not sadistic dominatrices going around burning entire populations just for the gaks and giggles. Sometimes they fail, sometimes they get mislead and tricked, but in the end they try to do the right thing.
Not Mary Sue so much as tragic heroines (like Blood Angels should be in a sense, in their best fluff).
By the Throne, i hope you're right. the sister have always had a place in my heart as an awesome army, only their limited pose metal models have prevented me from collecting them in the past.
EDIT: same for the grey nights, i love the whole unknown sacrifice of them, willingly giving their lives to defend an empire that doesn't even know they exist.
im2randomghgh wrote:Lysander needs to introduce our *friend* Matt Ward to the painglove...MAXIMUM POWER BWAHAHA
Automatically Appended Next Post: I sent an enourmous e-mail to GW complaining about Matt Ward's Fucktardedness as well as a link to this forum and a link to the gallery of disaster. Hope it works!
You know, I feel like much of this bitching is due to people not having realized that GK's aren't Mary Sue marines... Slaughtering servants of the emperor is NOTHING NEW for the Grey Knights. Its been in their fluff forever, hell the Grey Knight Redemption Force (or whatever its called) formation for apoc has it AS A RULE.
Bathing in their blood is something else entirely, not gonna touch that with a 10 lightyear pole.
chaos0xomega wrote:You know, I feel like much of this bitching is due to people not having realized that GK's aren't Mary Sue marines... Slaughtering servants of the emperor is NOTHING NEW for the Grey Knights. Its been in their fluff forever, hell the Grey Knight Redemption Force (or whatever its called) formation for apoc has it AS A RULE.
Bathing in their blood is something else entirely, not gonna touch that with a 10 lightyear pole.
The issue isn't that they kill imperial servants, it's that they do it to protect themselves from daemons. Y'know, the stuff that their aegis armour, hexagrammic wards carved into their bones, their psychic aura and mind-scrub training is supposed to protect them from...
We all know that Grey Knights are indiscriminate in fulfilling their missions (Armageddeon anyone?). But it's how this one was written that was just horrible. They turn against the surviving sisters for who the hell knows why, slaughter them, and then rub up in their blood because it supposedly will stop them from being corrupted even though they're supposed to be the purist melon-fethers in the entire Imperium and are completely invulnerable to corruption.
It's not a matter of whether they kill indiscriminately for the greater good (because this has been in their fluff forever and is actually a very important/cool part of their fluff), it's a matter of why their killing indiscriminately and how they do it (rubbing up in the blood of a fresh slaughter sounds kind of chaotic if you ask me...).
Yes really, I could even accept the fact that they killed the sisters because GKs are really the only entities in the imperium immune to corruption... But bathing in their blood? FOR PROTECTION? No way.
Fafnir wrote:We all know that Grey Knights are indiscriminate in fulfilling their missions (Armageddeon anyone?). But it's how this one was written that was just horrible. They turn against the surviving sisters for who the hell knows why, slaughter them, and then rub up in their blood because it supposedly will stop them from being corrupted even though they're supposed to be the purist melon-fethers in the entire Imperium and are completely invulnerable to corruption.
Well...I have never heard of a custode turning to chaos...and b4 anyone says "that's because they don't DO anything", they were fairly proactive during the Great Crusade. Prospero anyone?
Also, I have never heard of anyone who was zealous enough turning to chaos...think about it, beleiving in the Emperor makes you immune to the plague of unbeleif, one of Grandfatass Nurgle's most powerful plagues.
I think when Ward was a child , he was droped many times and then used as a frisby. The hole lets rub the blood of the enemy on our self's is just Khorney. World Eaters and any other Khorne servents do it because of their undying blood lust , Grey knights do it cause Matt Ward is a idiot.
im2randomghgh wrote:Also, if Matt Ward ever touches my Tau codex, I will blast his balls off w/ a railgun. The minute he tries, Tau are going to become Xenophobic of everything except Vespid/Kroot who they make babies w/ and railguns will become assault 50 and tau will be able to beat 'nids in melee, and broadsides will fly, and battlesuits will become troops who deploy in squads of 25. Also, he'd probably make you able to fire railgun+submunition. Matt Ward feth off, i thought Fish o' Fury were bad, then you happened.
You also forgot about the part where the flying broadsides are quad-wielding fully automatic railguns while fighting in an Equilibrium-esk gun kata fashion.
We should count our blessings-he hasn't wrecked epic. I know that epic isn't as good as WH40K, but I don't think I could stand seeing Imperators w/ enough firepower to destroy spaceship, and Warhounds w/ Nova cannons and, for goodness sakes, flying libby dreadnoughts from the BA crushing titans with their universal special rule called: Matt Ward touched my dex, therefore I win.
Fafnir wrote:River of blood. Women unable to stop it and it makes a bunch of them crazy and pissed off. Men have to come help and beat the women into submission.
You've got to have the insight of Helen Keller to not get the (bad) joke.
I was under the impression that the Sisters of Battle were the ones immune (or at least some of them were) to the Bloodtide (or whatever it's called), due to their purity and faith, whereas the Grey Knights are affected by it (and so lose their control to bloodlust or some such). When it recedes, the Grey Knights kill the Sisters of Battle and cover themselves with their pure blood, rendering them immune to the effects of the Bloodtide and so able to carry on with their mission. It doesn't make sense because the Grey Knights are supposed to be completely incorruptible (compared with at least a few Sisters turning to Chaos) and have more psychic protection as well (while still having faith in the Emperor).
Actually, I almost certainly would not have made that connection.
chaos0xomega wrote:You know, I feel like much of this bitching is due to people not having realized that GK's aren't Mary Sue marines... Slaughtering servants of the emperor is NOTHING NEW for the Grey Knights. Its been in their fluff forever, hell the Grey Knight Redemption Force (or whatever its called) formation for apoc has it AS A RULE.
Bathing in their blood is something else entirely, not gonna touch that with a 10 lightyear pole.
The issue isn't that they kill imperial servants, it's that they do it to protect themselves from daemons. Y'know, the stuff that their aegis armour, hexagrammic wards carved into their bones, their psychic aura and mind-scrub training is supposed to protect them from...
Slaughtering something pure and using its blood to protect oneself from evil is hardly out of the ordinary in fantasy/demonology, etc. Passover legend anyone? The jews in Egypt slaughtered lambs (a 'pure' entity) and painted their doorframes with it in order to ward off the angel of death. Granted, the Angel of Death is supposed to represent a holy/divine entity, but one that can be interpreted as having mal intent (likewise, it can be argued daemons are not inherently evil). Similar stories can be found throughout various mythologies and religions, its not something completely out of left field.
As for why they killed the sisters, again you miss the point: "NO WITNESSES." Contrary to what you would expect from playing the tabletop game, the existence of daemons, etc. are a little known fact in the 40k universe. The general public has no clue, nor does most of the Imperial military machine. That's why the Grey Knights and Ordo Malleus are so secretive. Sisters of Battle are no exception to this, they are for the most part unaware of daemons and warpspawn, etc. They exist to protect holy sites, etc. not to be incorruptible daemonhunters. The fact that they had come to know of the daemons on that planet added them to the list of people the Grey Knights had to eliminate in order to keep knowledge of such things from others.
Fafnir wrote:River of blood. Women unable to stop it and it makes a bunch of them crazy and pissed off. Men have to come help and beat the women into submission.
You've got to have the insight of Helen Keller to not get the (bad) joke.
I'm sorry if this is insensitive, but women+blood+crazy+pissed off=PMS. And you thought Matt Ward was making a bad joke?
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chaos0xomega wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:You know, I feel like much of this bitching is due to people not having realized that GK's aren't Mary Sue marines... Slaughtering servants of the emperor is NOTHING NEW for the Grey Knights. Its been in their fluff forever, hell the Grey Knight Redemption Force (or whatever its called) formation for apoc has it AS A RULE.
Bathing in their blood is something else entirely, not gonna touch that with a 10 lightyear pole.
The issue isn't that they kill imperial servants, it's that they do it to protect themselves from daemons. Y'know, the stuff that their aegis armour, hexagrammic wards carved into their bones, their psychic aura and mind-scrub training is supposed to protect them from...
Slaughtering something pure and using its blood to protect oneself from evil is hardly out of the ordinary in fantasy/demonology, etc. Passover legend anyone? The jews in Egypt slaughtered lambs (a 'pure' entity) and painted their doorframes with it in order to ward off the angel of death. Granted, the Angel of Death is supposed to represent a holy/divine entity, but one that can be interpreted as having mal intent (likewise, it can be argued daemons are not inherently evil). Similar stories can be found throughout various mythologies and religions, its not something completely out of left field.
As for why they killed the sisters, again you miss the point: "NO WITNESSES." Contrary to what you would expect from playing the tabletop game, the existence of daemons, etc. are a little known fact in the 40k universe. The general public has no clue, nor does most of the Imperial military machine. That's why the Grey Knights and Ordo Malleus are so secretive. Sisters of Battle are no exception to this, they are for the most part unaware of daemons and warpspawn, etc. They exist to protect holy sites, etc. not to be incorruptible daemonhunters. The fact that they had come to know of the daemons on that planet added them to the list of people the Grey Knights had to eliminate in order to keep knowledge of such things from others.
I'm not defending Matt Ward, I think its a terrible piece of writing and needs to be purged, but I also dislike the seemingly group-think spawned single-minded nerdrage that seems to be going around here.
Asherian Command wrote:HEY! I actually like the gray knight codex, the only part I don't like is that fluff. And the Stolen transformer idea....
Really? you like having such a game-breakingly good codex? This is like WHFB Daemons all over again. all because of Matt Ward's Sillyness [A Mod: No swearing, please!]
Asherian Command wrote:HEY! I actually like the gray knight codex, the only part I don't like is that fluff. And the Stolen transformer idea....
Really? you like having such a game-breakingly good codex? This is like WHFB Daemons all over again. all because of Matt Ward's [Mod Edit]
I really don't care about the writing or the lore in this codex. As I won't be playing Gray Knights. I will be Playing Adeptus Custodes using the Gray Knight codex.
the stolen transformer thing is bad.... ill be converting mine up so it looks more "titan-esque_ so no piolet hanging by the gonads out front. total closed front, with maybe a eye hole or 2.
the thing looks like a mini version of some titan or mech warrior....so ill be taking the wh9ole concept a bit furthar. as for the fluff in the dex.... yea its not the best. alot of contridictions and poorley justified backstory. kinda makes me wonder about the editing department... i mean dark eldar dex AWSOME fluff... GK....not so much.. what happened?
I am thinking alone the lines of Up and over bolters which should be a challenge. And then just to make of Matt Ward we will have a dead ultramarine on the Justicars Base with a codex gray knights lol.
Asherian Command wrote:HEY! I actually like the gray knight codex, the only part I don't like is that fluff. And the Stolen transformer idea....
Really? you like having such a game-breakingly good codex? This is like WHFB Daemons all over again. all because of Matt Ward's [Mod Edit]
I really don't care about the writing or the lore in this codex. As I won't be playing Gray Knights. I will be Playing Adeptus Custodes using the Gray Knight codex.
I wasn't talking about the fluff, I was talking about them have 3x the cost effectiveness of vanilla SM and having near-immunity to plasma, the only thing that can really stop GK termies.
Also, Custodes rape GK, if your going to use them, modify the rules, make them better, but more expensive. Also, they would all HAVE to have Halberd w/ bolter convo glued onto the end.
The battlesuit at the bottom right of the first page, the one kicking an UM in the face, we should photoshop Matt Ward's face onto it, then E-mail it to him lol!
Melissia wrote:Either way... I hope whoever does write the Sisters' next codex keeps in mind this little bit of fluff that is standard for all GW descriptions of Sisters... "[Sisters of Battle] are shining examples of all that is good about humanity".
100% agreed. One of the things I like about the Sisters is that where Space Marines are about turning a human being into a weapon with a Spartan approach to recruitment, hyno-surgery and genetically engineered implants, the Sisters are still humans.
chaos0xomega wrote:You know, I feel like much of this bitching is due to people not having realized that GK's aren't Mary Sue marines...
The entire debacle can be summed up in a single quote:
There are those who might see contradiction between our abhorrence of the Daemon and our wielding of sorcery. Yet these contradictions live only in the minds of weak men, and we are not accountable to such as they. - Mat Ward
Okay, Ward attributed it to "Grand Master Valdar Aurikon", but the message is clear: "My fluff sucks, and I don't care."
chaos0xomega wrote:
As for why they killed the sisters, again you miss the point: "NO WITNESSES." .
The GK kill or mind-scrub other Imperial forces after the battle has been won. Not before. It is stupid to kill a bunch of loyal soldiers who have just proven their faithfulness when they could be more help to you alive with a bolter and flamer in their hand.
If the Sisters survived without corruption then there is no way the GK would have succumbed. Their actions were not only tactically stupid, counter-productive and pointless. Heck, the GK don't kill Imperial Guard until after the fighting is over.
And frankly if I arrived on a planet known to be under attack by the daemonic forces of chaos and my captains first orders were 'Slaughter our allies by surprise and bath in their blood!' I'd damn well be questioning his purity...
I know the old Slave to Darkness fluff had GK operating under a no witness policy but I'm pretty sure that went away with Codex DH. Has it been reinstated? if so it is a pretty stupid policy. It might reduce some risk of corruption but it also lets The Enemy operate in secret. Not only that but it is bad story telling IMHO - having the population know holy warriors fighting against dragons, daemons and monsters fits the grimdark better than CIA style black ops. Heck, there should be faithful cults to the Emperor running around out there trying to smite Chaos.
This incident reads to me more like an excuse to show that GK are mean bunch of mother lovers.
Well with the grey knights they have never lost a single marine to chaos. So the marines in question are probly doing a requirment for a pyschic ablity they need blood for
Just wanted to throw this in again since it might be lost in the thread. It's the online petition to ask GW to stop letting Matt Ward write. I didn't start it but I sure signed it, and it just takes a minute to sign.
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/StopMattWard/
I put forth the theory that the only true and incorruptible soul in the Imperium is Colonel Commissar Ibram Gaunt. Feth the GKs and their Khorne rituals.
gpfunk wrote:I put forth the theory that the only true and incorruptible soul in the Imperium is Colonel Commissar Ibram Gaunt. Feth the GKs and their Khorne rituals.
If Matt 'I can't do subtle or quiet' Ward writes the Dark Angels codex I think I may just die from irony overdose. I fear this possibility more than I fear the Dark Angels getting squatted or rolled into a complete marine dex.
Oh please don't touch my dex, please don't touch my dex, please don't touch my dex...
Just because you're dead doesn't mean you don't have a soul.
zxwarrior wrote:Well with the grey knights they have never lost a single marine to chaos. So the marines in question are probly doing a requirment for a pyschic ablity they need blood for
And Sisters have only lost one to chaos, without all the artificial protection that Grey Knights have or bathing in the blood of the innocent.
Man even my dark eldar are like WTH. I bet grey knights have betrayed more allies that Kharn the Betrayer. Why doesn't Chaos use the blood tide on Grey knights if it's the only thing that can work on them? Is Dragio just a daemon? Hell I'd bet the Grey knights are all daemons after being founded in the warp, having just banished CSM back there. Appear out of no where, kill foes then allies, then vanish. Oh and they wield daemon weapons and use sorcery.
As for why I felt it was Misogynistic in nature, it was just a general vibe from it, nothing concrete. I'm not familiar enough with Wards work to speak beyond this example, nor do I have intentions of writing and calling for his head, I just haven't been exposed to enough of his work to make a decision. My post was just to inform, that if you hate the dude, write in about it and that this piece beyond poorly written almost seemed to try and be a bit misogynistic just to be edgy.
To be frank, I don't endorse that which we don't speak of, but I had to check because I literally could not believe this was true. It is, in fact, true.
Terribly disappointed by how poor of a job this is. It would have fit thematically if the Sisters had sacrificed themselves, but it still makes no sense they would even need to do so. Sup with all those wards and sigils and oils and stuff? Poorly done, poorly done. I dread the upcoming Necron codex.
I wonder...is this battle the same one from the Grey Knights Omnibus? Because there the GKs were hunting a Daemon Prince, and the sisters were unaware of the DP, so they thoought that the GKs were invading. The GKs foughts through the sisters, then explained themselves to the Canoness and allied themselves w/ the sisters right before the battle w/ the daemon prince. This sounds the exact same as what's in the codex, except less Matt Ward, and w/o the stupid I LOVE KHORNE SO ILL PLAY WIT DER BLOOOOOOOD thing.
After reading the GK fluff, I have to say, Matt Ward is a sick, twisted freak. Really, I am surprised he has not been thrown in jail yet for doing something as horrible as the stuff he thinks up.
Like it has been said, no one would have batted an eye if the Sisters willingly sacrificed themselves (thats what they do...) to help the GK win against Chaos. The fact that sisters were MORE pure than the Grey Knights and the fact that they basically Khorne'd the Sisters is what angers people.
That really goes against early fluff and makes little sense...What is the point of the wards and Aegis armor if it only takes some innocent blood to resist chaos? If blood works that well, then that should be the default. Wards cost money, innocent people cost nothing...
One of the things that baffles me, being that clearly Ward did no research at all, is moving Deimos. Deimos is actually smaller then a Ramilies class starfort, and is metal poor. It's gravity is so low you can literally jump into orbit around it.
sexiest_hero wrote:Man even my dark eldar are like WTH. I bet grey knights have betrayed more allies that Kharn the Betrayer. Why doesn't Chaos use the blood tide on Grey knights if it's the only thing that can work on them? Is Dragio just a daemon? Hell I'd bet the Grey knights are all daemons after being founded in the warp, having just banished CSM back there. Appear out of no where, kill foes then allies, then vanish. Oh and they wield daemon weapons and use sorcery.
Or the writer is just bad.....
which is why as far as my inquisitor led IG is concerned, the Grey Knights are a traitor chapter.
But what he did with the Tyranids was a disgrace to his name.
Well, thats why I said Eldar....but I know what you mean a little bit. Ward shouldn't be doing anything with fluff....wasnt it Ward and someone else who wrot the codex, too?
Wow, I was thinking about that story, the other day and its really messed up. I almost feel like the acts of murder and desecration make the conflact a major victory for Chaos regardless of what happend to any demons...
It seems more along the lines of what the Dark Eldar would do, but then again that is expected from them! And they aren't supposed to be "pure" defenders against Chaos.
They really need to stop Matt Ward from getting his hands on fluff, that stuff just makes me nausious.
No. That's not the problem. Hell, that's what we tend to expect from them. It's how it's written that is so horrible.
Not to mention the absurd fluff contradictions and rediculous over-the-top one-upsmanship that Ward seems to have with every other codex, but that's besides the point.
I never saw them as "Pure Saviors", I simply saw them as "Pure Guys Who Do What Have To Be Done". If they'd killed off the Sisters after everything happened, I can understand, secrets and all... But killing 'em and bathing in blood for protection? Yeeeah, think thats a bit much...
Alphacerberus wrote:Ward has gone the whole Ruthless defenders route making them like a renegade hero like Batman
And I quote Frank Miller (despite his various neuroses):
"Batman is as good and pure a hero as you can find."
So... no. They did not. Batman isn't a ruthless defender... he values the lives of innocents, he is a good, just, and honest person. He even values the lives of his enemies, never killing them unless he absolutely has no choice, and even then he hates himself for letting such a situation arise.
Alphacerberus wrote:Ward has gone the whole Ruthless defenders route making them like a renegade hero like Batman
And I quote Frank Miller (despite his various neuroses):
"Batman is as good and pure a hero as you can find."
So... no. They did not. Batman isn't a ruthless defender... he values the lives of innocents, he is a good, just, and honest person. He even values the lives of his enemies, never killing them unless he absolutely has no choice, and even then he hates himself for letting such a situation arise.
i was going from the Dark knight aspect im not a huge batman fan so sorry if ive got the wrong impression i thought he used terror tactics and was ruthless in keeping with punishments.
although the punisher would have maybe made a better case xD
DarknessEternal wrote:It never mentions the Sisters opposed this plan of action. I'm forced to conclude they were willing participants, as it doesn't make sense otherwise.
Sure, it makes little sense with that interpretation, but it's more than none.
Usually when you 'turn your swords on' someone, it's means you just go in and murder them. Judging by the description, I'm sure they would have said yes, if anyone had bothered to actually ask...
DarknessEternal wrote:It never mentions the Sisters opposed this plan of action. I'm forced to conclude they were willing participants, as it doesn't make sense otherwise.
Sure, it makes little sense with that interpretation, but it's more than none.
If I can read it for myself. I will sign the petition.
Matt Ward, whilst he has written fluff worthy only of an over excited 8 year old obsessed with 'BLUD' is only partly responsible for how the GK codex turned out. Yes he wrote the fluff but the rest of the responsibility goes to anyone who checked his material and gave it the go ahead. All the people on the development team are members of the hobby and I'm fairly certain that some of them would have pointed out fluff as ridiculous as GKs bathing in the blood of SoB.
I think calling him that bad is a little harsh. The writing isn't too shabby in most places, and some ideas are quite good. The Castelan Crowe Idea of constantly battling with a daemonic sword because only he is pure enough to safe guard it is actually a pretty decent piece of fluff. That said, their are some amazingly stupid ideas.
iproxtaco wrote:Matt Ward, whilst he has written fluff worthy only of an over excited 8 year old obsessed with 'BLUD' is only partly responsible for how the GK codex turned out. Yes he wrote the fluff but the rest of the responsibility goes to anyone who checked his material and gave it the go ahead. All the people on the development team are members of the hobby and I'm fairly certain that some of them would have pointed out fluff as ridiculous as GKs bathing in the blood of SoB.
I think calling him that bad is a little harsh. The writing isn't too shabby in most places, and some ideas are quite good. The Castelan Crowe Idea of constantly battling with a daemonic sword because only he is pure enough to safe guard it is actually a pretty decent piece of fluff. That said, their are some amazingly stupid ideas.
iproxtaco wrote:Matt Ward, whilst he has written fluff worthy only of an over excited 8 year old obsessed with 'BLUD' is only partly responsible for how the GK codex turned out. Yes he wrote the fluff but the rest of the responsibility goes to anyone who checked his material and gave it the go ahead. All the people on the development team are members of the hobby and I'm fairly certain that some of them would have pointed out fluff as ridiculous as GKs bathing in the blood of SoB.
I think calling him that bad is a little harsh. The writing isn't too shabby in most places, and some ideas are quite good. The Castelan Crowe Idea of constantly battling with a daemonic sword because only he is pure enough to safe guard it is actually a pretty decent piece of fluff. That said, their are some amazingly stupid ideas.
Matt Ward defender! The only person unreasonable to say something like that is Matt Ward. (maybe he made himself a Dakka account...)
I doubt Jokaero was his idea... Probably somebody thought "Hey, why don't we revive the monkeys?".
That said they make sense, as much as daemonhosts do. What doesn't really make sense is the ability to use them along Grey Knights, but I guess it was to be expected since allies are gone and I doubt an inquisition only list is feasible.
And it's not like the guy's utterly incapable either. His snippet of fluff on the Terminators was actually quite good. But why the hell can't he maintain that level of self control with the rest of the codex?
Fafnir wrote:And it's not like the guy's utterly incapable either. His snippet of fluff on the Terminators was actually quite good. But why the hell can't he maintain that level of self control with the rest of the codex?
I haven't read nearly as much Fluff as many of the previous posters, but when I think about all that the Dark Angels have gone through to keep "the great secret" this just seems ridiculous.
Fafnir wrote:And it's not like the guy's utterly incapable either. His snippet of fluff on the Terminators was actually quite good. But why the hell can't he maintain that level of self control with the rest of the codex?
Simple: GW yelled at him. 'Nuff said.
plus he ruined the crunch. This may break the game.
iproxtaco wrote:Matt Ward, whilst he has written fluff worthy only of an over excited 8 year old obsessed with 'BLUD' is only partly responsible for how the GK codex turned out. Yes he wrote the fluff but the rest of the responsibility goes to anyone who checked his material and gave it the go ahead. All the people on the development team are members of the hobby and I'm fairly certain that some of them would have pointed out fluff as ridiculous as GKs bathing in the blood of SoB.
I think calling him that bad is a little harsh. The writing isn't too shabby in most places, and some ideas are quite good. The Castelan Crowe Idea of constantly battling with a daemonic sword because only he is pure enough to safe guard it is actually a pretty decent piece of fluff. That said, their are some amazingly stupid ideas.
I'm sorry, but Crowe was cribbed from a certain Michael Moorcock character...
Quite blatantly, if the art is anything to go by...
"I have this feeling my luck is none too good. This sword here at my side don't act the way it should. Keeps calling me it's master, but I feel like it's slave..."
iproxtaco wrote:Matt Ward, whilst he has written fluff worthy only of an over excited 8 year old obsessed with 'BLUD' is only partly responsible for how the GK codex turned out. Yes he wrote the fluff but the rest of the responsibility goes to anyone who checked his material and gave it the go ahead. All the people on the development team are members of the hobby and I'm fairly certain that some of them would have pointed out fluff as ridiculous as GKs bathing in the blood of SoB.
I think calling him that bad is a little harsh. The writing isn't too shabby in most places, and some ideas are quite good. The Castelan Crowe Idea of constantly battling with a daemonic sword because only he is pure enough to safe guard it is actually a pretty decent piece of fluff. That said, their are some amazingly stupid ideas.
I'm sorry, but Crowe was cribbed from a certain Michael Moorcock character...
Quite blatantly, if the art is anything to go by...
"I have this feeling my luck is none too good. This sword here at my side don't act the way it should. Keeps calling me it's master, but I feel like it's slave..."
Does this remind anyone of Fulgrim and the sword that possessed him.
'"I have this feeling my luck is none too good. This sword here at my side don't act the way it should. Keeps calling me it's master, but I feel like it's slave..."
THIS THREAD IS HERSEY! Gray Knights are Heretics now!
They shall be entirely burnt to a crisp! They are heretics and this matt Ward must be purged!!
This is the common reaction for 40k players.
If this was really how I reacted. I would of been lost long ago. Anyway the Grey Knights seem to be more Heretical than the Revilers. Just saying, they really seem to be worse than them. (the grey knights compared to the Revilers.)
I actually didn't find the fluff bad at all. The Grey Knights weren't tainted...they just sacrificed the sisters for the greater good. That happens in a couple other areas of the fluff too, like killing escape pods so a Changeling doesn't make it to another world and cause chaos.
The whole sacrifice for the greater good is a staple of GK fluff but the way it was deployed here was non-sensical.
Why not ask the SOB, who were pure, to willingly sacrifice? They would have probably agreed. Or why not even team up, Gk are supposed to be even purer than SOB, so if the SOB weren't tainted then surely GK with all the Hexagrammic mumbo-jumbo and Aegis wards would be fine right?
Instead this fluff seems to imply that GK are suspect to taint, or at least more suspect then SOB. Then there's the slight misyoginistic slant, but maybe that's just me. Also the SOB seem to get picked on quite a bit in fluff...
All I can say is that GW is NOT publishing Codex: Squats in FAVOR of more Matt Ward garbage. Doesn't that just make you feel like such a wanted customer. It's sort of like Sci-Fi doing away with all those Sci Fi shows in favor of more Wrasslin!
[OT rant] I think that Melissia said it best that it would be nice if Sisters were not the whipping girl in even their own codex. Martyrdom is nice and all, but I would like them to win in the fluff once... [/OT rant]
But yeah, Asimo77, that is my issue...Grey Knights should be Purer than Sisters...They should not need that extra boost to beat Chaos... If innocent blood is all that is needed, it really should not be hard to get gallons of it on shrine world...Just just coat one's power armor daily and forget all that aegis and wards stuff...
AdeptSister wrote:[OT rant] I think that Melissia said it best that it would be nice if Sisters were not the whipping girl in even their own codex. Martyrdom is nice and all, but I would like them to win in the fluff once... [/OT rant]
But yeah, Asimo77, that is my issue...Grey Knights should be Purer than Sisters...They should not need that extra boost to beat Chaos... If innocent blood is all that is needed, it really should not be hard to get gallons of it on shrine world...Just just coat one's power armor daily and forget all that aegis and wards stuff...
What, women, WIN in 40k? You must be joking! 'In the Grim derpness of the Far Future there is only Ward. And his Ultramarines sausage smuggling fap fictions."
As the Ultramarines player said to the Space Wolves player when asked about Ale and Wenches on Ultramar 'Bros before Hoes!'
I understand that in 40k "Taint" can be a physical manifestation, but can't it be something as simple as an idea? The thought of killing Nuns to cover yourself in their blood to protect from Evil sounds like "Taint" in and of itself.
AdeptSister wrote:[OT rant] I think that Melissia said it best that it would be nice if Sisters were not the whipping girl in even their own codex. Martyrdom is nice and all, but I would like them to win in the fluff once... [/OT rant]
Shenra wrote:I actually didn't find the fluff bad at all. The Grey Knights weren't tainted...they just sacrificed the sisters for the greater good. That happens in a couple other areas of the fluff too, like killing escape pods so a Changeling doesn't make it to another world and cause chaos.
When did Matt Ward get a Dakka account?
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BaronIveagh wrote:
What, women, WIN in 40k? You must be joking! 'In the Grim derpness of the Far Future there is only Ward. And his Ultramarines sausage smuggling fap fictions."
That is the single most true thing I have ever read.
The main problem is the quality and style of the writing. The SoB thing, Draigo, Castellan Crowe could have worked if it was written better - there's been plenty of ridiculous stuff in the fluff. It's not really the fault of the idea, it's the fault of the talent of the person attempting to write it, which is a shame.
LOL One, who's a kid? Two, if I posted anything SoB that people have commissioned off me on Dakka, I'd be banned in a heartbeat. 4chan is safer. No promotions.
-Loki- wrote:The main problem is the quality and style of the writing. The SoB thing, Draigo, Castellan Crowe could have worked if it was written better - there's been plenty of ridiculous stuff in the fluff. It's not really the fault of the idea, it's the fault of the talent of the person attempting to write it, which is a shame.
I loled Hard, Mate! Anyway I agree with that post. It could of been written better. Thats why I suggest we write our own lore for the gray knights. Its Ambitious but it might work.
I haven't read all the posts yet, still on page one, but has anyone corrected the person who said Titan was at Jupiter?
So if the daemon sword was on Titan then thrown into Jupiter, that is pretty stupid when you have Saturn that is heck of alot closer since Titan orbits Saturn.
Davor wrote:I haven't read all the posts yet, still on page one, but has anyone corrected the person who said Titan was at Jupiter?
So if the daemon sword was on Titan then thrown into Jupiter, that is pretty stupid when you have Saturn that is heck of alot closer since Titan orbits Saturn.
Actually, what's funny is that it would likely orbit neither at this point. The entire solar system would have shifted due to the passage of time, leaving Titan an orphan dwarf planet drifting through space. Little details that seem to have escaped the author.
Davor wrote:I haven't read all the posts yet, still on page one, but has anyone corrected the person who said Titan was at Jupiter?
So if the daemon sword was on Titan then thrown into Jupiter, that is pretty stupid when you have Saturn that is heck of alot closer since Titan orbits Saturn.
Actually, what's funny is that it would likely orbit neither at this point. The entire solar system would have shifted due to the passage of time, leaving Titan an orphan dwarf planet drifting through space. Little details that seem to have escaped the author.
Yeah the makers do like to pretend everything is exactly the same as it is today.... except, you know... "Space Marines Bro".
Although I think what some people posting here are failing to see is that the Daemon Sword is a Daemon Sword.
You don't just throw something that can change time, space, and open up a warp rift into a planet. The Warp protects it and needs someone pure to contain it...
Pretty much all the fluff if you just think about it a bit makes sense, except for that thing about massacring the Sisters of Battle.
asimo77 wrote:The Blood Tide story can easily be fixed. How about something like this:
I still don't like it. It still lets Ward go on his ego trip about how his faction of Heretic scum is so important that everyone else is tripping over themselves to die for him them.
If a single Sister Superior sacrificed herself to protect both the Grey Knights and her fellow Sisters, that would be less annoying.
A hexagrammatically warded vault with stupidly thick, unpassable (dissolving when given the password) doors, guarded by every 'off-duty'm grey knight, right in the middle of imperial controlled space is considered less safe than letting one bozo carry it around where any enterprising possessed Vindicare can top him and take it?
If you think this makes sense, then you'll love the rest of the current fluff they're pumping out...
asimo77 wrote:The Blood Tide story can easily be fixed. How about something like this:
I still don't like it. It still lets Ward go on his ego trip about how his faction of Heretic scum is so important that everyone else is tripping over themselves to die for him them.
If a single Sister Superior sacrificed herself to protect both the Grey Knights and her fellow Sisters, that would be less annoying.
Well I tried my best. Perhaps somethings are irredeemable, though SOB are known for their selflessness.
If half the nerdrage I've been hearing is justified, maybe it's a good thing I'm selling off my GK's and not picking up the new codex. I adored the fluff in the old one, and hearing all the changes made just makes me plain sad. At least I'll be able to focus on my Orks from now on instead.
It's quite scary though how Ward is just left to get away with it, it's like he has free reign to do what he wants and nobody, but us, cares.
Some of this fluff has been established for as long as I can remember, the Index Astartes articles for a start is a main source of the fluff and these were pretty damn spot on. I really do not know what GW are trying to achieve by letting Ward continue to write this drivel, other than to annoy their older more established gamers.
Are they trying to push it up to 12 now to make it seem cooler for the younger ones amongst us? I find the whole situation perplexing and pretty f'ing frustrating.
Ok this whole thread makes me think about the hundreds of Chaos Grey Knight threads that I have seen over the years. Basically everyone said "No it is impossible! They cannot be corrupted by Chaos!"
I remember quite clearly saying that this sacred "fluff" could be changed and everyone acted like I was a heretic when I was simply stating that it was all fiction.
Now I see this blood tide thing:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:You know, I feel like much of this bitching is due to people not having realized that GK's aren't Mary Sue marines... Slaughtering servants of the emperor is NOTHING NEW for the Grey Knights. Its been in their fluff forever, hell the Grey Knight Redemption Force (or whatever its called) formation for apoc has it AS A RULE.
Bathing in their blood is something else entirely, not gonna touch that with a 10 lightyear pole.
The issue isn't that they kill imperial servants, it's that they do it to protect themselves from daemons. Y'know, the stuff that their aegis armour, hexagrammic wards carved into their bones, their psychic aura and mind-scrub training is supposed to protect them from...
Wow, so if the blood tide is used on the Grey Knights and there are no pure imperial servants around to slaughter and have a blood orgy with, then "I can haz Khaos Grey Knights?"
This is exactly what I have been saying for years. People act like the fluff is some sacered holy text and that x and x are impossible. You asked for this by saying it was impossible. Somewhere out there a Grey Knight hater with a lot of money donated it to Matt Ward so he would change your almighty fluff.
But hey it is ok right? If Grey Knights want to slaughter kindergarteners and bathe in their blood, then it is ok because they can't be corrupted right? It is a like a Axe Shower Gel commercial to them.
DiscoVader wrote:If half the nerdrage I've been hearing is justified, maybe it's a good thing I'm selling off my GK's and not picking up the new codex. I adored the fluff in the old one, and hearing all the changes made just makes me plain sad. At least I'll be able to focus on my Orks from now on instead.
I would still check the book out. Who knows, it might all be exaggerated (Le Gasp!), and you might enjoy the rules.
I just think it would be better to see for yourself before making a judgement.
Melissia wrote:By that reasoning there should also be daemons who are loyal to the Imperium, after all anything can happen
Well, technically Daemons are manifestations of emotions/sentiments of living things, and since a whole heck of a lot of people are loyal to the Imperium......
But that is utter blasphemy. Death to the False Emperor!
Lord Scythican wrote:"I can haz Khaos Grey Knights?"
That depends. Are you a talentless hack? Then go ahead!
There is as much support for Chaos Grey Knights as there is for the Jedi and Palpatine being in cahoots, conspiring to sell a brush war as a galaxy-spanning conflict. Just because there's one idiot spewing their lunacy onto the page does not mean it's not a bloody stupid idea.
Lord Scythican wrote:"I can haz Khaos Grey Knights?"
That depends. Are you a talentless hack? Then go ahead!
There is as much support for Chaos Grey Knights as there is for the Jedi and Palpatine being in cahoots, conspiring to sell a brush war as a galaxy-spanning conflict. Just because there's one idiot spewing their lunacy onto the page does not mean it's not a bloody stupid idea.
I am glad you took the stupid part out.
But still the whole thing still bothers me. Now that Matt Ward has corrupted the fluff people have went from "No that's impossible. Grey Knights can't be corrupted by Chaos!" to "It's in the fluff but it is stupid and so are you."
So when the 6th Edition Chaos Rule book comes out and their is a character that used to be a Grey Knight, what are we going to say then?
Also fixed for you. Your analogy was a bit off.
AlexHolker wrote:
There is as much support for Chaos Grey Knights as there is for the Jedi falling to the darkside and joining with the Emperor, conspiring to corrupt the image of the Jedi during a galaxy-spanning conflict.
Matty Ward should have stayed at home reading The Hobbit - but he dicided to f*** up! the GKs instead. The fluff with the Sisters is just so typical - and is he going all the way ? do they corpulate on the holy altars .... ? Nope of course not
Whimps
I feel sorry for the GK fans as I know how I would feel if some moron fiddled with my Ork Codex ...
Lord Scythican wrote:But still the whole thing still bothers me. Now that Matt Ward has corrupted the fluff people have went from "No that's impossible. Grey Knights can't be corrupted by Chaos!" to "It's in the fluff but it is stupid and so are you."
I'd say it's more "No, that's impossible. Grey Knights can't be corrupted by Chaos, no matter what Ward says." Ward, like Goto, has lost the benefit of the doubt through a prolonged campaign of writing.
So when the 6th Edition Chaos Rule book comes out and their is a character that used to be a Grey Knight, what are we going to say then?
I'm going to say "What idiot keeps letting Ward write codices?"
Also fixed for you. Your analogy was a bit off.
Have you read Traviss's novels? Don't try to "fix" my post unless you know what the hell you're talking about.
Lord Scythican wrote:But still the whole thing still bothers me. Now that Matt Ward has corrupted the fluff people have went from "No that's impossible. Grey Knights can't be corrupted by Chaos!" to "It's in the fluff but it is stupid and so are you."
I'd say it's more "No, that's impossible. Grey Knights can't be corrupted by Chaos, no matter what Ward says." Ward, like Goto, has lost the benefit of the doubt through a prolonged campaign of writing.
So when the 6th Edition Chaos Rule book comes out and their is a character that used to be a Grey Knight, what are we going to say then?
I'm going to say "What idiot keeps letting Ward write codices?"
Also fixed for you. Your analogy was a bit off.
Have you read Traviss's novels? Don't try to "fix" my post unless you know what the hell you're talking about.
Don't get me wrong. I don't agree with it. I don't want Chaos Grey Knights. But I am just pointing out like a did a few years ago, the fluff can be corrupted.
Melissia wrote:But then, that's what I'm complaining about. Some changes to the fluff are good... this... is not.
This is more than not good. This is horrible.
I am actually happy that this happened. It is sort of proof of what I was saying before. People seriously acted like fictional words in a game could not be changed. "Nu uh! Grey Knights can't be corrupted! They pass 666 tests to prove they cannot be!" Well guess what people, the 667th test was the Blood Tide and you have to slaughter innocents to not be corrupted. Better keep some sisters around in Parakeet cages just in case you run into the Blood Tide. Talk about a no win scenario, because slaughtering innocents still means you are corrupted. Heck Khrone has his fingers on your spine if you are willing to shed innocent blood.
Seriously take this situation and put it into any other context of something else. This is seriously messed up.
I bet if I donated $1 Billion to GW in exchange for a Matt Ward to write a My Little Pony codex it would happen.
iproxtaco wrote:Matt Ward, whilst he has written fluff worthy only of an over excited 8 year old obsessed with 'BLUD' is only partly responsible for how the GK codex turned out. Yes he wrote the fluff but the rest of the responsibility goes to anyone who checked his material and gave it the go ahead. All the people on the development team are members of the hobby and I'm fairly certain that some of them would have pointed out fluff as ridiculous as GKs bathing in the blood of SoB.
I think calling him that bad is a little harsh. The writing isn't too shabby in most places, and some ideas are quite good. The Castelan Crowe Idea of constantly battling with a daemonic sword because only he is pure enough to safe guard it is actually a pretty decent piece of fluff. That said, their are some amazingly stupid ideas.
Matt Ward defender! The only person unreasonable to say something like that is Matt Ward. (maybe he made himself a Dakka account...)
Right........calling him a blood obsessed with 'BLUD' is defending him? The current state of the GK codex is because of his ridiculous fluff ideas, but someone must have approved his idiotic writing.
But seriously, if people are that disappointed then lets from a group and change the fluff, make a PDF and put it on the forums for people to see.
) but I'm kinda worried that the fluff is taking such a nosedive. Please don't let this man near the Black Library.
fire. 
