Adepticon 40K Champs results are in via Blood of Kittens:

http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/40K-Champs-Overall-Results.pdf

Way to go Reecius on placing 5th overall!

Edit: Better note that this is from the standard format tournament. The Qualifying 16 are here: http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/16-Qualifers.pdf




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Updated from BoK:

Blood of Kittens wrote:
The Elite 8 are…

Space Wolves vs. Space Wolves

Orks vs. Blood Angels

Khan SM vs. Nids

Blood Angels vs. Imperial Guard

Deamons are out =( and Reece Robbins lost his first game.

Blood of Kittens wrote:
The Final Four are…

Space Wolves Grey Hunter Spam
Imperial Guard Vet and Valks
Horde Orks
Hybid Stealer Guant Nids

This is what they look like…

So it is down to the final two and the Cinderellas are all gone. The winner of last year’s Nova Open with Space Wolves is up against Mech IG. I have to admit I am shockingly pulling for the IG. The list on closer look is pretty hybrid besides the vet squads. It has some Hellhounds and Russes as well as Heavy weapon teams. So it should be a good match. The Space Wolf player has sqeecked by almost every game so this will be his final test to see if he can win 8 games in a row at Adepticon.

Blood of Kittens wrote:
Ok turn one guys has just started. we have dawn of war deployment. SW player went first, but got seized on by the IG



IG first round of shooting going fairly well. Njal rhino wreck and Long fangs squad neutered…Space Wolf top of 2 wolves move up then proceed to Immolize a vend and explodes the vend and chimera explode. Top of turn 3 for IG blows up a rhino immobilizes a razorback and picking at Njah squad.



SW turn bottom turn three…Russ weapon destroy. Manticore stunned. Two Chimera destroyed so far… not looking good for IG.

IG top of 4…. Killed Njal squad whittled down some grey hunters. SW bottom turn 4 clean up starts takes out heavy weapon teams abs stuns some more vehicles. SW kill another melta squad.

IG top of 5…Grey hunter squad bites it and another is whittled down. Bottom 5 SW.



SW really getting into full clean up mode might table IG if goes to 7….

And finally:

Blood of Kittens wrote:
Well games ends and SW have won and the netlisters rejoice!

Having watch Tony Kopach the 17 year old Space Wolf wunderkin– what can I say? He out played his opponent on that last game even with the IG seizing. He used the terrain to his advantage and provided enough cover saves to protect his transports as they moved up. On turn three all of Tony’s dice just lit up with 5 and 6s on damage table rolls. So by then it was just a matter of his Grey Hunters finishing off the easy bits inside. Overall the game was fast paced and easy to watch. Was not really inspiring though. I have seen this battled played out over the last year time and time again. I think if Tony would have played the Nid list that almost made it, we would have had a real classic on our hands. So I am tired– might have more stuff up later tonight, otherwise thank you everyone that watched the live broadcast and followed the blog. Next up WargamesCon and I cannot wait.

Pics and full story here: http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2011/04/03/adepticon-2011-40k-campionship-coverage/

Congrats to Ragnar (Mannahnin) as well, for second place (in the Champions round) with CSM.

Awesome broadcast! The nid vs wolves would have been a good match up. Too bad they fell short by victory points to the ig in round 3.

Anyone know if the SW player used the same army at the NOVA Open? Would be a bit disappointed if Grey Hunter spam was the current top army.

I hope BOK posts up the lists, it'll be interesting to see what top players were using.

I hope all major tournaments using this new format put all the lists from day 2 up for all to see and let us know what the match ups were. The more reporting the better.

Any news on results for Gladiator or Team tournaments.

I wonder what those guys who were giving Stelek flak for loosing to a 17 year old will say now that said kid has gone on to go 8-0 at Adepticon.

Are the lists posted publicly anywhere?

Team Spiky Bitz has won the Team Tourney. They beat out last year's team tournament winners the Sons of Shatner (ripped shirts?). I do not know all the players on the team yet but will let ya know.

Tony is 16, not 17. His list is Njal, 5 scouts mgun, 5 wolf guard fist/combimelta (and 2 have mbombs), 2x8gh mgun standard rhino, 2x7gh mgun standard rhino, 2x5gh flamer plas/laserback, 3x5fangs 4missiles

He came to play with us in the TT, and Youngbloods, b/c he didn't sign up for champs in time, but got in off waitlist.

Hopefully will say something that he is now 14-0 in GT play with the NOVA 10 and AdeptiCon 11 in his cap; he also achieved all but one possible objective/point.

Like any event with no margin of victory requirements, you saw squeaker close games between all variety of lists. People brought less rocks, and more balanced armies (I.e. more bodies, and weaker but swiss army knife hq's like Njal). The finals had a TON of list variety.

Thanks for posting the list. Very basic seeming, just goes to show how powerful a basic SW list can be with a proper commander.

Is it just mer or is adepticon news hard to come by this year?

I was thinking the exact same thing. I don't remember having to search and hunt for it like this in past years.

Agreed. I'd really like to see what Jay Woodcock's Nid list looked like, and what his match ups were prior to the finals.

MVBrandt wrote:Tony is 16, not 17. His list is Njal, 5 scouts mgun, 5 wolf guard fist/combimelta (and 2 have mbombs), 2x8gh mgun standard rhino, 2x7gh mgun standard rhino, 2x5gh flamer plas/laserback, 3x5fangs 4missiles

He came to play with us in the TT, and Youngbloods, b/c he didn't sign up for champs in time, but got in off waitlist.

Hopefully will say something that he is now 14-0 in GT play with the NOVA 10 and AdeptiCon 11 in his cap; he also achieved all but one possible objective/point.

Like any event with no margin of victory requirements, you saw squeaker close games between all variety of lists. People brought less rocks, and more balanced armies (I.e. more bodies, and weaker but swiss army knife hq's like Njal). The finals had a TON of list variety.

Very awesome. I like how he did it, very solid player. I hope to play him at the NOVA this year. His list is very basic but it seems to have staying power!

71 bodies, 6 armor 11 tanks.

frgsinwntr wrote:

MVBrandt wrote:Tony is 16, not 17. His list is Njal, 5 scouts mgun, 5 wolf guard fist/combimelta (and 2 have mbombs), 2x8gh mgun standard rhino, 2x7gh mgun standard rhino, 2x5gh flamer plas/laserback, 3x5fangs 4missiles

He came to play with us in the TT, and Youngbloods, b/c he didn't sign up for champs in time, but got in off waitlist.

Hopefully will say something that he is now 14-0 in GT play with the NOVA 10 and AdeptiCon 11 in his cap; he also achieved all but one possible objective/point.

Like any event with no margin of victory requirements, you saw squeaker close games between all variety of lists. People brought less rocks, and more balanced armies (I.e. more bodies, and weaker but swiss army knife hq's like Njal). The finals had a TON of list variety.

Very awesome. I like how he did it, very solid player. I hope to play him at the NOVA this year. His list is very basic but it seems to have staying power!

71 bodies, 6 armor 11 tanks.

I want a Whiskey Challenge versus Tony so bad now...

Kudos to him on his victory with a true "all comers" style list!

MVBrandt wrote:
Hopefully will say something that he is now 14-0 in GT play with the NOVA 10 and AdeptiCon 11 in his cap; he also achieved all but one possible objective/point.

It says he's an excellent player, no doubt there. It may also say something about how deep 40k really is as a game on a philosophical level, but I guess Bobby Fischer grandmastered at 15, so maybe he's just a prodigy and will go on to live in exile in Reykjavík too

Is it just mer or is adepticon news hard to come by this year?

Don't forget that a lot of people stayed for the poker tournament last night and aren't travelling home until today. I'd expect to see more results and posts in the upcoming week.

MVBrandt wrote:Tony is 16, not 17. Hopefully will say something that he is now 14-0 in GT play with the NOVA 10 and AdeptiCon 11 in his cap; he also achieved all but one possible objective/point.

Well, I must say that he definitely has something to be proud of. I sincerely hope we get to face each other at the Nova Open this year; testing my abilities against players like this is why I play.

Dashofpepper wrote:

MVBrandt wrote:Tony is 16, not 17. Hopefully will say something that he is now 14-0 in GT play with the NOVA 10 and AdeptiCon 11 in his cap; he also achieved all but one possible objective/point.

Well, I must say that he definitely has something to be proud of. I sincerely hope we get to face each other at the Nova Open this year; testing my abilities against players like this is why I play.

I thought you played so you had an acceptable reason to drink from sun up to sun down...

Long drive back to cinci last night working after a weekend like that is rough. I had a blast there it was my first con and I won killzone, Saturday night combat patrol and took best general for Sunday morning CP. Some of the crystal brush stuff was simply amazing for me especially it was the space marine with the incredible free hand that won. Hopefully I'll be able to register or know that I'm going sooner than two weeks before so I can try my hand at the bigger games next year.

Woodcock's Tyranids...

Rough guessimation

2 x2 hive guard
4 x10 genestealers
3 zoathropes
x2 tervigon
many gargoyles
not sure on HQ

It looked great on table.

As I've said already on YTTH, congrats to Tony. It's a shame TastyTaste has to degrade his coverage by trying to downplay Tony's achievement, but that's what he's built his 'career' on, so I'm not surprised or even that disappointed really.

Well done everyone who won all their games.

Pipboy101 wrote:Is it just mer or is adepticon news hard to come by this year?

There are nuggets of info out there, but no one good source for it. BOK has some stuff up, but not a ton.

I think what is going on is that everyone who is there is engaging in the event and doesn't have time to report.

Cole Markgraf here, the IG player from the Final 4.

Few Clarifications. My IG list was this:
CCS w/ 4x Plasma and officer of the fleet in a chimera
8 Psykers in a chimera
Melta vets in a chimera
Melta vets in a chimera
Infantry platoon:
Pcs w/ 4 flamers in a chimera with a turret heavy flamer (This is the chimera everyone thought was a hellhound)
Infantry squad
Infantry squad
Autocannon heavy squad
Missle Heavy squad
Vendetta
Vendetta
Russ
Executioner w/plasma and lascannon
Manticore


Jays Nids were:
2 HQ tervigons
3x hiveguard
3x hiveguard
3x zoes
20 genestealers
20 genestealers
15 genestealers
25 Gargoyles


Both were good games against awesome players. Tony is a phenomenal player and deserves all the credit in the world. Following up the 120 player Nova win with the 260 player Adepticon win is truly amazing.

Pipboy101 wrote:Is it just mer or is adepticon news hard to come by this year?

I just got back from there, and I have to say that a lot of people probably just don't have time to give reports. The events are quite long and intense.

I know that the 11th Company and Independent Characters Podcasts were doing a lot of live coverage. You could look there.

Elessar wrote:As I've said already on YTTH, congrats to Tony. It's a shame TastyTaste has to degrade his coverage by trying to downplay Tony's achievement, but that's what he's built his 'career' on, so I'm not surprised or even that disappointed really.

Well done everyone who won all their games.

it was a great job by Tony to pull off the 8 wins.
but he needs to clean up his game. I played him one round on saturday(we won) and talked to several others that played him and there were issues in several games. this like extremely long movements and questionable assault moves, and stretching a few rules.

I'm really interested to see the ork list from the final four.

Not trying to downplay his win but @skkipper, did people not call him on it due to his age? Not wanting to seem like a bully to someone under 18 etc?

skkipper wrote:

Elessar wrote:As I've said already on YTTH, congrats to Tony. It's a shame TastyTaste has to degrade his coverage by trying to downplay Tony's achievement, but that's what he's built his 'career' on, so I'm not surprised or even that disappointed really.

Well done everyone who won all their games.

it was a great job by Tony to pull off the 8 wins.
but he needs to clean up his game. I played him one round on saturday(we won) and talked to several others that played him and there were issues in several games. this like extremely long movements and questionable assault moves, and stretching a few rules.

On the flip side of this, those other players may not have had a good understanding of the rules (if he wasn't stretching), or may just have the "I got beat" bucket of crabs mentallity.

Either way, passing on hearsay is kinda useless and "social dividing" for the hobby.

That said, unless you personally played him... and can show us a rule he stretched and how, it's safe to assume the other parties involved could also be wrong.



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Warboss Gubbinz wrote:Not trying to downplay his win but @skkipper, did people not call him on it due to his age? Not wanting to seem like a bully to someone under 18 etc?

Or they didn't because he was in the right?

I've met more people who don't know the rules that do.

I think jumping on the hearsay train is bad form

I know the only way to solve this...

TWO MEN ENTER, ONE MAN LEAVES

skkipper wrote:

Elessar wrote:As I've said already on YTTH, congrats to Tony. It's a shame TastyTaste has to degrade his coverage by trying to downplay Tony's achievement, but that's what he's built his 'career' on, so I'm not surprised or even that disappointed really.

Well done everyone who won all their games.

it was a great job by Tony to pull off the 8 wins.
but he needs to clean up his game. I played him one round on saturday(we won) and talked to several others that played him and there were issues in several games. this like extremely long movements and questionable assault moves, and stretching a few rules.

I could see this kind of thing in the first few rounds, but once you get into the third or fourth round wouldn't people start to call him on it?

BatManuel here on dakka was the Ork player that made it into the finals. Apparently he won some 2700 bucks in Nurgle army stuff...

Congrats Mike...you still suck compared to me!

Deadshane1 wrote:BatManuel here on dakka was the Ork player that made it into the finals. Apparently he won some 2700 bucks in Nurgle army stuff...

Congrats Mike...you still suck compared to me!

Damn dude! Thats a good Haul!

frgsinwntr wrote:I think jumping on the hearsay train is bad form

^Definately this. Without proof or a firsthand account, it honestly just comes off as trying to downplay his win, which is unfair and unclassy, imho.

I may just not know a lot about Adepticon, but what's the difference between the First PDF (Overall) and Second PDF (Sunday Qualifiers).


And props to Mannahnin for 2nd Overall!


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Oh, wait, overall is the Ren Man and Qualifier is straight BP?

Overall includes soft scores, while Sunday Qualifiers is Battle Points (wins/objectives) only.


Some of the 2nd day qualifiers were down past the 80th place on the overall score. Some people prefer battling, some prefer other aspects of the game

Lol Just noticed Tony was 82nd overall, but 1st on Sunday. Thanks RB and grats again on appearance!

Yeah, I was number 21 in Battle (2-0-2 w/9/12 Objectives) but wound up at like 102 Overall....My poor nids are so not as pretty as they need to be

@Redbeard

It was great meeting you dude. Congrats again on best painted!

In Regards to Tony I watched at least his first game on day two (since I was an alternate but everyone showed) and I didn't see a single thing wrong. But whatev's. Figured I'd throw that out there.

pretre wrote:Lol Just noticed Tony was 82nd overall, but 1st on Sunday. Thanks RB and grats again on appearance!

If you look at the score, it was the sportsmanship score that killed him in the overall. I wonder if he really is that bad of a sport or something else....

On a side note, I don't mind when painting scores get lumped in but sports/comp is crazy as its based on your opponent judging you. Thats always objective....

To be fair, there is a strong correlation between "I got beat" and bad sportsmanship scores.

Knowing Adepticon, I am pretty sure, at the very least the last rounds, that you had judges watching those games. Saying he may have stretched anything is in poor taste, unless you played him and can give a specific example.

it was a great job by Tony to pull off the 8 wins.
but he needs to clean up his game. I played him one round on saturday(we won) and talked to several others that played him and there were issues in several games. this like extremely long movements and questionable assault moves, and stretching a few rules.

Like I said, I played Tony for 1st place. He did nothing even close to stretching rules or long movements. One of my buddies had played him earlier and said the same thing. He played and outstanding game. Don't take anything from that.

As for his sportsmanship, personally, I think he was perfectly fine to play against. I can see how someone could ding him since once the game starts he is in no nonsense mode. He knows his rules, plays fast, doesn't really chit chat during the game and is a 16 year old kid. I am guessing its those 4 things that some grownup couldn't handle after they lost to him and thats why he got knocked.

Wow, Tony got dinged hard on the sportsmanship for the overall. Only 10 out of 40. Ouch.

Like Lord Severus said I would imagine the combination of being a teenager and bringing what is a more generic list yet beating everyone probably contributed heavily to his sportsmanship score.

Nothing annoys some people more than a "kid" whomping them with a "generic" army when they began the game thinking that it would be an easy win against said "kid" with the "generic" army.

The general trend towards mature responses in this thread make me happy.

I'm glad our hobby is getting to be competitive, and doing so in a grown up way.

We all deserve a round of beers!

Except Tony... he's too young

This is all interesting, but I think I speak for all of us when I ask if Dakka Detachment 2 did better overall than Dakka Detachment 1?

Sigh... wish I could've been there this year.

vonjankmon wrote:Like Lord Severus said I would imagine the combination of being a teenager and bringing what is a more generic list yet beating everyone probably contributed heavily to his sportsmanship score.

Nothing annoys some people more than a "kid" whomping them with a "generic" army when they began the game thinking that it would be an easy win against said "kid" with the "generic" army.

I think that this actually isn't the case nearly as much as people seem to think on the internet. Typically the "sports dinging" and other issues that make everyone fear sports/soft scores aren't nearly as abused in reality. I've only had it happen to me at one major event like 4 years ago. I've won two this year and am probably not the most model human being and have still gotten max/high sports scores. In fact, I think if anything sports scores across the board are abnormally high just because people feel awkward putting down a bad score in front of their opponent/etc.

That being said, his low sports score may indicate his opponents just didn't have a good time (I'm NOT saying this is true). I don't think they insinuate that he "cheated" or "fudged" things, which is probably a misinterpretation of the "data". If he's quiet, reserved, and no nonsense, thats probably why he got a low score, nothing more, nothing less. People want to chat and be social during games, esp. if their just getting stomped in the game to begin with. Getting stomped in silence is probably pretty devoid of enjoyment, as most players who lose and still have a good time give a reason like "but my opponent was a nice/fun guy, and we had a good time".

targetawg wrote:

vonjankmon wrote:Like Lord Severus said I would imagine the combination of being a teenager and bringing what is a more generic list yet beating everyone probably contributed heavily to his sportsmanship score.

Nothing annoys some people more than a "kid" whomping them with a "generic" army when they began the game thinking that it would be an easy win against said "kid" with the "generic" army.

I think that this actually isn't the case nearly as much as people seem to think on the internet. Typically the "sports dinging" and other issues that make everyone fear sports/soft scores aren't nearly as abused in reality. I've only had it happen to me at one major event like 4 years ago. I've won two this year and am probably not the most model human being and have still gotten max/high sports scores. In fact, I think if anything sports scores across the board are abnormally high just because people feel awkward putting down a bad score in front of their opponent/etc.

That being said, his low sports score may indicate his opponents just didn't have a good time (I'm NOT saying this is true). I don't think they insinuate that he "cheated" or "fudged" things, which is probably a misinterpretation of the "data". If he's quiet, reserved, and no nonsense, thats probably why he got a low score, nothing more, nothing less. People want to chat and be social during games, esp. if their just getting stomped in the game to begin with. Getting stomped in silence is probably pretty devoid of enjoyment, as most players who lose and still have a good time give a reason like "but my opponent was a nice/fun guy, and we had a good time".

I don't mean to flame the above poster, but you are pointing out everything that is wrong with soft scores.

Why should a player get penalized for being "quiet, reserved or no nonesense"? Why should a player be judged on thier ability to entertain your opponent. There is a place for this type of play, its at a 3 round FLGS tournie or garage hammer, not at a 200 person tournament.

This soft scoring stuff has got to go away. It is ridiculous.

Spire, he still won top place for the Qualifier. The event he was playing for. So what's the problem?

that is why there were two separate scoring systems for the event, so that you don't have to deal with sportsmanship if you don't want to.

1. Tony played exceptionally well, as did all the players in the finals. It was a high pressure set of games with judges, spectators (at a reasonable distance) and sometimes live video podcasting over your shoulder.

2. I was really worried that the top 16 wouldn't all show up so early, but not only did they all show, we also had 3 alternates. Additionally all 16 played through the 1st 3 rounds before we had a single drop. Many thanks.

3. Tony didn't get 'dinged' on Sportsmanship at all. He received 3 Average votes and 1 Postive result (each positive counting as 10 points towards Best Showing on Friday). Totally respectable. Negative marks did not earn you any negative points. It was simply a majority strikes rule. If you got 3 you were no longer eligible to win awards. No one received 3 negative marks.

4. While I am sure Tony would have been thrilled to win Overall, I am pretty sure he wasn't there to play to that part of the event and results reflect that to a degree. All the Overall awards were handed out Friday in a self contained event. There were no appearance or sportsmanship scores in the finals.

The 40K rules have been on the AdeptiCon site for months. The Sportsmanship system is explained in there as well as in the Dev Blog.

spireland wrote:

targetawg wrote:

vonjankmon wrote:Like Lord Severus said I would imagine the combination of being a teenager and bringing what is a more generic list yet beating everyone probably contributed heavily to his sportsmanship score.

Nothing annoys some people more than a "kid" whomping them with a "generic" army when they began the game thinking that it would be an easy win against said "kid" with the "generic" army.

I think that this actually isn't the case nearly as much as people seem to think on the internet. Typically the "sports dinging" and other issues that make everyone fear sports/soft scores aren't nearly as abused in reality. I've only had it happen to me at one major event like 4 years ago. I've won two this year and am probably not the most model human being and have still gotten max/high sports scores. In fact, I think if anything sports scores across the board are abnormally high just because people feel awkward putting down a bad score in front of their opponent/etc.

That being said, his low sports score may indicate his opponents just didn't have a good time (I'm NOT saying this is true). I don't think they insinuate that he "cheated" or "fudged" things, which is probably a misinterpretation of the "data". If he's quiet, reserved, and no nonsense, thats probably why he got a low score, nothing more, nothing less. People want to chat and be social during games, esp. if their just getting stomped in the game to begin with. Getting stomped in silence is probably pretty devoid of enjoyment, as most players who lose and still have a good time give a reason like "but my opponent was a nice/fun guy, and we had a good time".

I don't mean to flame the above poster, but you are pointing out everything that is wrong with soft scores.

Why should a player get penalized for being "quiet, reserved or no nonesense"? Why should a player be judged on thier ability to entertain your opponent. There is a place for this type of play, its at a 3 round FLGS tournie or garage hammer, not at a 200 person tournament.

This soft scoring stuff has got to go away. It is ridiculous.

It's redic. in your opinion is the key here. A lot of players like soft scores, a lot don't. Regardless of whether an event has them or not, it can still be quality. An important point in this is to identify your own personal bias, which you seem to have quite a bit of, as you've already determined where people are allowed to use "soft scores" and where they aren't. Not everyone agrees.

I'm personally not for sportsmanship usually, as the system is hard to get right, and typically ends up being fairly meaningless (everyone gets max, yay?). But being a good sportsman is a fairly subjective thing, and most sportsmanship scoring guidelines flat out state questions like "did you have fun?" "would you play this opponent again?".

This is a social hobby, if you are so focused on winning that you can't be an enjoyable person to be around, you get bad sports scores, that's just the way it goes.

Now, to take a step back, let's remember something key: this is a totally esoteric debate. Neither of us were there (or at least I wasn't, and I don't think you were) and neither of us played Tony. He may have been a total raging trogggdorrr screaming monster. He may have been the most absolutely nice, charming, and enjoyable individual since Charlie Sheen. Since neither of us has any real proof, it's probably best not to speculate on why Tony received a "low" sports score. That's something for him or his opponents to comment on.

Please read the AdeptiCon Championships Sportsmanship scoring and how awards are calculated. Tony did not receive low Sportsmanship. In fact he received slight above average (since four average games would be 0 points). Granted people were liberal with Positive marks, but that doesn't harm anyone.

Amen brother! I agree! This was Adepticon, not some tournament where gamers show up just to have fun! Tony, congrats on a well deserved win!
The young man showed up to play. Who cares about his age? Really? We shouldn't take away from what he accomplished. As I recall it, we're "GAMERS" not "ENTERTAINERS"! Makes me question who really was the matured one?
Stop crying about his age, approach, & army list!!!!

Matthias wrote:Please read the AdeptiCon Championships Sportsmanship scoring and how awards are calculated. Tony did not receive low Sportsmanship. In fact he received slight above average (since four average games would be 0 points). Granted people were liberal with Positive marks, but that doesn't harm anyone.

I guess I am a bit confused. I look at the top scorers in the over all, and they all have 40 points. You have to go 15 places down to see anyone below a 30. To me I see Tony's score as a 10 out of 40. How is that above average? Thats a 25% of possible points if I am reading it right. If I understand correctly this could be a case of too many bonus points?

I realize I am a on a bit of a soap box here, and as an earlier poster pointed out I have made my opinion on this matter clear. It is an opinion, but that doesn't make it any less valid.

I will say that I do understand that there is no such thing as a perfect scoring system for this hobby we all love. The hobby has many facets and it is VERY difficult to come up with a perfect system and easy to pick apart those that try. I do think the folks that organize this event have created the premier wargamming event and should be proud of what they've done and not take us nit pickers too seriously.

spireland wrote:
I guess I am a bit confused. I look at the top scorers in the over all, and they all have 40 points. You have to go 15 places down to see anyone below a 30. To me I see Tony's score as a 10 out of 40. How is that above average? Thats a 25% of possible points if I am reading it right. If I understand correctly this could be a case of too many bonus points?

Matthias gave you what the scoring criteria were. Also, you had to scroll 15 down because there were over 200 people. Try scrolling 100 down and see what the sports scores were like. Also, try taking a look at the whole thing and see how many 10's were handed out.

frgsinwntr wrote:I think jumping on the hearsay train is bad form

Yes it is.

I'm sure no slight was intended when this was first raised, so we'll just leave it there and get on with general congratulations and news from the event.

*obligatory congratulatory to those who won and did well*

.. now where are the pictures to entertain me ? *cracks whip*

Matthias wrote:Please read the AdeptiCon Championships Sportsmanship scoring and how awards are calculated. Tony did not receive low Sportsmanship. In fact he received slight above average (since four average games would be 0 points). Granted people were liberal with Positive marks, but that doesn't harm anyone.

The mark he was marked for may have been called "average", but the average we're talking about here is a numerical average of the actual scores that were awarded. I downloaded the scores and slapped em into excel, and the actual average score was a 30.27 for sportsmanship with a standard deviation of 8, meaning tony was more than 2 standard deviations off of the average. The median score was a 32, the mode was 32 as well.

So Tony did in fact receive "low" sportsmanship when it comes to the score he received, which is what we're interested in if we're evaluating how it impacted his overall performance. The difference here is that the system skews the numbers so that a result of a 0 is deemed to be an average quality sportsman (IE, 0 isn't "he has absolutely no quality as a sportsman and was the least fun opponent imaginable").

Sports scores are awful. So horde orks won? Or was it the teen with space wolves?

@olympia. Way to read the first post.

Teen Wolf won. Which is a horrible, and yet awesome, nickname.

In regards to the sports scoring I actually had Mathais explain it to me on Sunday morning while watching the first round. I was sad since I'd scored so poorly figuring someone might have actually dinged me. Once it was explained it made more sense.

I gave out 3 Average games and 1 Amazing game. The reason? I read the actual words on the paper, scored it appropriately, and only Redbeards game blew me away with the fun, awesome spirit, and general tone. The other 3 dudes were good games but not something I'll look back at next year and remember. But again non were bad enough for me to remember next year either so 3-Averages and 1-Awesome. But quite a few people are still in the habit of max sports. It's one of the reasons I like the rank your opponents method more.

Hulksmash wrote:In regards to the sports scoring I actually had Mathais explain it to me on Sunday morning while watching the first round. I was sad since I'd scored so poorly figuring someone might have actually dinged me. Once it was explained it made more sense.

I gave out 3 Average games and 1 Amazing game. The reason? I read the actual words on the paper, scored it appropriately, and only Redbeards game blew me away with the fun, awesome spirit, and general tone. The other 3 dudes were good games but not something I'll look back at next year and remember. But again non were bad enough for me to remember next year either so 3-Averages and 1-Awesome. But quite a few people are still in the habit of max sports. It's one of the reasons I like the rank your opponents method more.

This is what bugs me about soft scores. Some people read the guidelines (Like Mr. Smash) and some don't. Some torpedo others scores, some inflate others, some just plain don't read. Regardless its more often then not a "real" score.


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targetawg wrote:

Matthias wrote:Please read the AdeptiCon Championships Sportsmanship scoring and how awards are calculated. Tony did not receive low Sportsmanship. In fact he received slight above average (since four average games would be 0 points). Granted people were liberal with Positive marks, but that doesn't harm anyone.

The mark he was marked for may have been called "average", but the average we're talking about here is a numerical average of the actual scores that were awarded. I downloaded the scores and slapped em into excel, and the actual average score was a 30.27 for sportsmanship with a standard deviation of 8, meaning tony was more than 2 standard deviations off of the average. The median score was a 32, the mode was 32 as well.

So Tony did in fact receive "low" sportsmanship when it comes to the score he received, which is what we're interested in if we're evaluating how it impacted his overall performance. The difference here is that the system skews the numbers so that a result of a 0 is deemed to be an average quality sportsman (IE, 0 isn't "he has absolutely no quality as a sportsman and was the least fun opponent imaginable").

This was what I saw in the numbers, it is interesting to see the actual statistical result.

@spireland: Okay, how about you start up a thread in Tournament Discussions about soft scores so we can keep talking about Adepticon Results?

How long do you think it will be until the scores hit Rankings HQ?

I had a quick discussion with Andrew from RHQ about how we will enter this event since the Overall scores only take into account the Friday event and there is technically a 2nd event on Sunday without all that. Once he gets settled back home we will figure it out.

pretre wrote:@spireland: Okay, how about you start up a thread in Tournament Discussions about soft scores so we can keep talking about Adepticon Results?

I'm sorry that I have a differing opinion then you. Telling me to get out of the thread (even if done politely) is not appreciated.
Last time I checked, Dakka is a place for discussion, even if they differ from yours. My posts have been on point, discussing what I see as issues with the scoring at Adepticon. Yes, I have taken some general jabs at soft scoring in general, but isn’t that what a discussion forum is for? Discussing?

spireland wrote:

pretre wrote:@spireland: Okay, how about you start up a thread in Tournament Discussions about soft scores so we can keep talking about Adepticon Results?

I'm sorry that I have a differing opinion then you. Telling me to get out of the thread (even if done politely) is not appreciated.
Last time I checked, Dakka is a place for discussion, even if they differ from yours. My posts have been on point, discussing what I see as issues with the scoring at Adepticon. Yes, I have taken some general jabs at soft scoring in general, but isn’t that what a discussion forum is for? Discussing?

Yes, however that's not what this thread is for. I have to agree with him in that the conversation about soft scoring should be taken elsewhere...


Congrats to the winner though, I wouldn't say that's a particularly 'cheesy' or 'netlist' Space Wolf army at all tbh, few Razorbacks, no TWC and only 2 squads of Long Fangs. In fact, I'd probably have criticised the lay-out for the Rhinos. All credit to the kid, he must be a talented general to say the least.

Well done to the various Dakkanauts too! I'm looking at you Mannahnin, Hulk, Reece and Redbeard!

Just thought I'd pop in to congratulate Tony on his win. Well done young man!

That's not what this thread is for, no.

We are talking about Adepticon results, not derailing into another soft score debate.

Ninja'd by justdave!

@Spireland: From the dakka rules:

4. Stay on the original topic of the thread. It's really easy to wander off, but if you find yourself diverging too much from the original topic, start a new thread.

Of course, it probably also says in the rules to let moderators do the moderating =p



Back on topic, congratz to the winners. I'm really interested to see the Ork Horde list that made the finals.

Of course that is true, and there is also a principle of not dragging threads far off topic, so we have to balance these two principles.

Sports scores have been extensively debated in the past and will be so again in the future.

You have had the chance to express your opinion about the specifics of Adepticon, and others have disagreed. If people want to explore the subject in depth, a new thread would be a good way to do it. That goes equally for the pro and con people.

spireland wrote:

pretre wrote:@spireland: Okay, how about you start up a thread in Tournament Discussions about soft scores so we can keep talking about Adepticon Results?

I'm sorry that I have a differing opinion then you. Telling me to get out of the thread (even if done politely) is not appreciated.
Last time I checked, Dakka is a place for discussion, even if they differ from yours. My posts have been on point, discussing what I see as issues with the scoring at Adepticon. Yes, I have taken some general jabs at soft scoring in general, but isn’t that what a discussion forum is for? Discussing?

Agreed actually, lets take a discussion of soft scores to a different thread which you are free to make, and keep this one on topic of the actual results. Thanks everyone.

Ouch Frazzled. That's 2 threads I've seen you get ninja'd in. Getting old Frazz.
Maybe you should feed the Weiner's less to slim the bugger's...

Avariel wrote:Any news on results for Gladiator or Team tournaments.

Blood of Kittens wrote:The Team Tourney was won by Rob Baer of Spikey Bits Blood Angel abomination. Taking second was last year’s winner Son of Shatner.

Just Dave wrote:Ouch Frazzled. That's 2 threads I've seen you get ninja'd in. Getting old Frazz.
Maybe you should feed the Weiner's less to slim the bugger's...

Occupational hazard. Usually I'm the cause of the reports, and thus the first to respond.

Congrats all, and I just want to say that Team Weinie are again jealous that we couldn't attend. Maybe next year.

90% off what I said wasn't hear say. It was based off my team tourney game vs him. The one person I talked to who played him on Friday probaly will not post his story due to his position here.
The rule stretch: due to other tanks around his rhino. He was unable to disembark from his rhino in coherency. He said he could because was moving after and only had to end in coherency. i told him he was wrong. he got snippy so i said fine. i knew he was wrong but i am playing horde orks and can't waste time. i let it go. another disembark and move resulted in guys back of bases being over 9" from the rhino. I called him on it were he got snippy again.
We may have got his worst game since he was in a losing position. I am just pointing out from what I seen he needs to tighten up his game

Necron 89th place
Tau 162nd place

And thats about the only times you see em on the list, necrons had another at 100ish i think.

Congrats to everyone who went and placed well, especially Tony for winning overalll, his guard opponent for taking "suboptimal" choices and getting so far, and the tyranid player who placed in top 4.

But seriously, I would love to play a game with Tony at Nova. He's stealing my spot light as the young kid who does well at tournaments, and I can't let that happen

On a side not that tyranid player is really making me reconsider my tyanids...

We won the team tournament.

Team name: I'm a Bear.. Put Your Head In My Mouth

Paul Murphy - captain
Kenny Boucher
Rob Baer
Josh Ginn

Running blood angels. Details to follow on blogs, I'm sure.

I would love to know the CSM list that got second over all. Congrats to the wolves for knocking Guard on its ass! I think that's needed from time to time, hoping it happens again at 'Ard Boyz this year

@Chosen: That's Mannahnin, one of the mods here.
Not sure of the exact list he brought, but I'm sure he will chime in when he recovers from the trip. To tide you over:

Pics of his Fallen Angels:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/353486.page

Recent Battle Report:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/353697.page


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He runs a very different Chaos list that most internet pundits would say is terribad. Lesser Daemons, oh no!

Well done to the various Dakkanauts too! I'm looking at you Mannahnin, Hulk, Reece and Redbeard!

*cough*
5th in Gladiator (horde guard)

spireland wrote:

pretre wrote:Lol Just noticed Tony was 82nd overall, but 1st on Sunday. Thanks RB and grats again on appearance!

If you look at the score, it was the sportsmanship score that killed him in the overall. I wonder if he really is that bad of a sport or something else....

On a side note, I don't mind when painting scores get lumped in but sports/comp is crazy as its based on your opponent judging you. Thats always objective....

Maybe, just maybe some don't like getting their ass kicked on table by a young player!

Only two Necrons players. And they both scored better than the five Tau Empire players attending. That does not reflect well on the debate on "Necron Vs Tau" at all

No, it doesn't - but it's far from conclusive, especially in a field of 260 players of whom most (what, two-thirds?) would have been SW, IG or BA.

Playing 5e with a 4e book at a tournament is generally a bad idea, as you don't only require good terrain, luck and ability anymore, but match-up becomes a much bigger issue too.

Congrats to all the winners. Tony has proven what he can do twice.

Great Job Paul, Kenny, Rob MBG, and Josh. Great players each of them.

@ Severus Thanks for posting Jay's list and grats on a great tournament

@ Hulksmash Any chance of a batrep on your nids when you get a chance?

Any details on the top4 ork list?

Ork player was

Mek KFF

20 Ard Boyz (shootas Nob Klaw)
Deff Rolla BW transport

30 shoota boyz (Nob w/ Klaw, 3 big shootas)
30 shoota boyz (Nob w/ klaw, 3 big shootas)
30 shoota boyz (Nob w/ klaw, 3 big shootas)

10 lootas
10 lootas

3 Kans w/ big shootas
3 Kans with rockets
1 Deff Dred w/ 2 big shootas.


Its a solid list and hes a good player. I lost to him round 2 first day.

@maelstrom

I'll be working on it in the next few days. Managed to have pictures for the first two (kinda) but then the thought went away and no more pictures

Hulksmash wrote:@maelstrom

I'll be working on it in the next few days. Managed to have pictures for the first two (kinda) but then the thought went away and no more pictures

Meh, I rarely pay much mind to pictures anyway as they are usually cell phone pics and hard to make out I'm interested in how your list panned out and what you would do differently. Look forward to reading it.

Congratulations to all the winners. Go Tony on best general.

Is nice to see a variety of armies in top 16 for best general as well as a nice variety for best overall.

Army distribution for this event:

40 Space Wolves
37 Blood Angels
29 Imperial Guard
28 Orks
28 Space Marines
19 Chaos Space Marines
13 Tyranids
11 Chaos Dæmons
8 Dark Eldar
7 Eldar
5 Dark Angels
5 Tau Empire
4 Undecided
3 Black Templars
3 Necrons
1 Dæmonhunters

Sounds about right Fetter. I didn't play a single same codex army in 4 games. Granted 3 of them were MEQ (SM, BA, SW) but at least it was 3 different codexes

The one thing I'm surprised about is the few Dark Eldar players who showed up to this event. From most of the reports I've heard, the models have been flying off the shelves, but that doesn't seem to really correspond to people actually taking the army to tournaments. Are they too new and unestablished in terms of builds, strategies, and so forth, or are people just not feeling the DE for competitive play?

Or people expected more guard like last year? I don't know what it was but DE were a little thin on the ground. I'd be it has to do with how many guard there were last year combined w/no official models for Wracks & Venoms.

Anyone know what the top Dark Eldar lists were composed of?

Fetterkey wrote:Army distribution for this event:

40 Space Wolves
37 Blood Angels
29 Imperial Guard
28 Orks
28 Space Marines
19 Chaos Space Marines
13 Tyranids
11 Chaos Dæmons
8 Dark Eldar
7 Eldar
5 Dark Angels
5 Tau Empire
4 Undecided
3 Black Templars
3 Necrons
1 Dæmonhunters

Who would be stupid enough to bring Demonhunters?

Oh, wait a minute...


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blood angel wrote:We won the team tournament.

Team name: I'm a Bear.. Put Your Head In My Mouth

Paul Murphy - captain
Kenny Boucher
Rob Baer
Josh Ginn

Running blood angels. Details to follow on blogs, I'm sure.

Congratulations Paul, you had a great weekend. Too bad your championship run ended on Sunday when your dice went on strike.

First round of event results and all the scenario packets are up on the AdeptiCon website under Past Coverage --> AdeptiCon 2011. Hopefully more results and some front page news tomorrow. Right now I need sleep...

Yea got to play Tony in the last battle of Friday, he is certainly an excellent player and deserves the best general award, unfortunately playing him wasn't fun.
He was All business, which is understandable if your just going for wins, but that's why he more than likely scored so poorly in sportsmanship, not that zero is bad, that was supposed to be average at adepticon.

Anyone know what the last 8 BA list was?

Bell of lost souls is awfully quiet. I guess they don't discuss results unless they win.

olympia wrote:Bell of lost souls is awfully quiet. I guess they don't discuss results unless they win.

Maybe because they had to travel all day yesterday and got in late last night. I had to play Brent in the finals and he is a class act. I am sure once rested they telling about there experiences.

Why come the BFG results dont have fleet races so we know who played what?

For me the most fascinating thing is the lists that ended up at the top of the heap.

If those lists had been posted on dakka asking for advice, there would have been a general feeling that they were good, but not completely optimal. Given the level of dedication required to win at this level, I would imagine that it is not a case of making a silk purse from a sow's ear - I assume that what is in these armies is exactly what the owner's wanted.

Given this, is it time for a more open-minded approach to list-building advice (ie something better than SPAM MOAR <insert flavour-of-the-month unit here>!!!!!) that actually takes into account synergy and battlefield use?

Congrats to the winners in any case, sounds like a terrific event

Chimera_Calvin wrote:For me the most fascinating thing is the lists that ended up at the top of the heap.

If those lists had been posted on dakka asking for advice, there would have been a general feeling that they were good, but not completely optimal. Given the level of dedication required to win at this level, I would imagine that it is not a case of making a silk purse from a sow's ear - I assume that what is in these armies is exactly what the owner's wanted.

Given this, is it time for a more open-minded approach to list-building advice (ie something better than SPAM MOAR <insert flavour-of-the-month unit here>!!!!!) that actually takes into account synergy and battlefield use?

I completely agree with this. However, it's worth bearing in mind that the players at this level use their lists because they are so used to them and know them inside out.
We all know it's more about the skill of the player rather than the list they use, but we'd struggle to know that in a simple forum.

If someone posts an original list and clearly knows how to use it, then I at least would respect their decision and not question their ability with it.
For example, we'd be more likely to suggest revisions to a list like the winners if a random poster suggested it, rather than say... a known veteran tournament player like Hulk or Reece.

Anyone know what the last 8 BA list was?

I played him in the round of 8 with my IG and his list was:
Librarian in termie armour
Sanguinor
Honor guard in a rhino
Tac squad in rhino w/MM melta
2 assault squads
2 5 man termie squads with 3 TH/SS 2 Lightning claws
Furiouso with talons
Stormraven

Beautifully painted. He had the Storm Raven with the Sanguinor style wings free handed onto the wings of the SR.

Any chance of getting the final 2 SW lists?

I would be very interested to see the points distribution and synergies employed by the champions.

Ozymandias wrote:This is all interesting, but I think I speak for all of us when I ask if Dakka Detachment 2 did better overall than Dakka Detachment 1?

Sigh... wish I could've been there this year.

Seconded!

blood angel wrote:We won the team tournament.

Team name: I'm a Bear.. Put Your Head In My Mouth

Paul Murphy - captain
Kenny Boucher
Rob Baer
Josh Ginn

Running blood angels. Details to follow on blogs, I'm sure.

Congrats, Paul!

Thank ya thank ya.

For the guy who asked about the elite 8 BA list - the other one (mine) was:

Meph
Sanguinor
Chap
2 Priest
CC Terminators
3 assault squads w/ fist and meltas

RiTides wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:This is all interesting, but I think I speak for all of us when I ask if Dakka Detachment 2 did better overall than Dakka Detachment 1?

Sigh... wish I could've been there this year.

Seconded!

http://www.adepticon.org/?page_id=2350

Dakka Detachment 2 - 26th, 10 points behind Dakka Detachment 1!

blood angel wrote:Thank ya thank ya.

For the guy who asked about the elite 8 BA list - the other one (mine) was:

Meph
Sanguinor
Chap
2 Priest
CC Terminators
3 assault squads w/ fist and meltas

And I found a list...

I've been trying to find a way to jam these units into a list, but I've been trying to shoehorn vehicles in there as well. Your assault squads can stay big while having the deathstar HQ of doom.

doh.. forgot to mention the storm raven and two rhinos. Keep the packs on one squad. Gives a lot of versitility.

Fetterkey wrote:Army distribution for this event:

40 Space Wolves
37 Blood Angels
29 Imperial Guard
28 Orks
28 Space Marines
19 Chaos Space Marines
13 Tyranids
11 Chaos Dæmons
8 Dark Eldar
7 Eldar
5 Dark Angels
5 Tau Empire
4 Undecided
3 Black Templars
3 Necrons
1 Dæmonhunters

That certainly gives us an indication of what people think are the strongest codexes.

The lack of Deldar is probably due to a number of factors such as newness and consequent lack of playing time with the codex against varied opponents.

No witchhunters at the event? Wow.

And 4 undecided? That's kind of strange.

I'm kind of surprised we didn't see more DA/BT, considering the recent updates made them viable.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:Army distribution for this event:

40 Space Wolves
37 Blood Angels
29 Imperial Guard
28 Orks
28 Space Marines
19 Chaos Space Marines
13 Tyranids
11 Chaos Dæmons
8 Dark Eldar
7 Eldar
5 Dark Angels
5 Tau Empire
4 Undecided
3 Black Templars
3 Necrons
1 Dæmonhunters

That certainly gives us an indication of what people think are the strongest codexes.

The lack of Deldar is probably due to a number of factors such as newness and consequent lack of playing time with the codex against varied opponents.

I'd love to see the break down of Fantasy armies, too.

113 armies out of 241 are Marine variants(not including CSM and Daemonhunter, which boost it to 133), giving ~47%(55% if including CSM and DH) of the armies as Marines.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:Army distribution for this event:

40 Space Wolves
37 Blood Angels
29 Imperial Guard
28 Orks
28 Space Marines
19 Chaos Space Marines
13 Tyranids
11 Chaos Dæmons
8 Dark Eldar
7 Eldar
5 Dark Angels
5 Tau Empire
4 Undecided
3 Black Templars
3 Necrons
1 Dæmonhunters

That certainly gives us an indication of what people think are the strongest codexes.

The lack of Deldar is probably due to a number of factors such as newness and consequent lack of playing time with the codex against varied opponents.

The other thing that stands out is how few Eldar there were.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:Army distribution for this event:

40 Space Wolves--------Strong mech lists
37 Blood Angels--------Strong mech lists
29 Imperial Guard----Strong mech lists
28 Orks
28 Space Marines
19 Chaos Space Marines
13 Tyranids
11 Chaos Dæmons
8 Dark Eldar
7 Eldar
5 Dark Angels
5 Tau Empire
4 Undecided
3 Black Templars
3 Necrons
1 Dæmonhunters

That certainly gives us an indication of what people think are the strongest codexes.

The lack of Deldar is probably due to a number of factors such as newness and consequent lack of playing time with the codex against varied opponents.

Top three played armies are possibly the top three alpha strike/mech lists too. Probably not a coincidence.

I talked to one of the BOLS guys---he was playing DE. He said they did ok---but lined up against Guard was pretty rough.

DE are also missing some models right now---which may explain why they weren't represented better.

pretre wrote:No witchhunters at the event? Wow.

And 4 undecided? That's kind of strange.

I'm kind of surprised we didn't see more DA/BT, considering the recent updates made them viable.

I'm suprised about that also. Usually you see one or two in the list.

I was thinking that. I'm really surprised to see how few Eldar, Dark Eldar and Tyranids there were. Particularly the 'Nids. I'm actually kind of surprised at the number of Guard players,I thought there wouldn't be that many less than the BA/SW's.

AgeOfEgos wrote:

40 Space Wolvesz
37 Blood Angels
29 Imperial Guard
28 Orks
28 Space Marines
19 Chaos Space Marines
13 Tyranids
11 Chaos Dæmons
8 Dark Eldar
7 Eldar
5 Dark Angels
5 Tau Empire
4 Undecided
3 Black Templars
3 Necrons
1 Dæmonhunters

Top three played armies are possibly the top three alpha strike/mech lists too. Probably not a coincidence.

I'm not sure I agree with this analysis.

First of all, check the colors I added above. Those seem like more statistically relevant breaks. One more person played guard than orks or marines. For all intents and purporses, the top two armies are new MEQ codexes, followed by three armies that are almost equally balanced in representation. Good news for GK players, it would appear.

Also, I believe I saw more Blood Angels on foot (or, perhaps jumping) than meched up. I think there were as many mech orks as mech blood angels - they seemed fairly split between kans and wagons (plus one who ran wazdakka ) Both Wolves and Angels have good mech builds, but they've also got good non-mech builds.

That per Army breakdown is close, but not 100% accurate.

If there were Undecideds listed, it was because we didn't enter their Army during initial check-in. That has since been corrected. First day back at work, lots to catch up on, but I will try to post the true army breakdown list later today, but like i said the above list is pretty close.

I'd also like to point out that we manually checked and verified all 246 army lists for this event during the first two rounds. We didn't find anything too terrible, but we did find a handful of errors that we had the players correct. In rounds 3 and 4 we took all the lists that were still in the running for qualification and rechecked them again. The lists that then qualified for Sunday were checked a third time.

We then retained those lists, made photocopies of them and then returned lists to the players during the Sunday finals. We then had the players set up their armies and visually checked each army on the table versus the list returned to make sure no changes or errors were made. Overall it was a grueling process, but I think it worked very well.

Of course all the tweaks and improvements we made to this event and the convention as a whole go generally unspoken of or unrecognized every year. People tend to have blinders on about a specific event and the numerical results of that event. Understandable, but it all needs some persepctive in terms of logistics.

Redbeard wrote:

I'm not sure I agree with this analysis.

First of all, check the colors I added above. Those seem like more statistically relevant breaks. One more person played guard than orks or marines. For all intents and purporses, the top two armies are new MEQ codexes, followed by three armies that are almost equally balanced in representation. Good news for GK players, it would appear.

Also, I believe I saw more Blood Angels on foot (or, perhaps jumping) than meched up. I think there were as many mech orks as mech blood angels - they seemed fairly split between kans and wagons (plus one who ran wazdakka ) Both Wolves and Angels have good mech builds, but they've also got good non-mech builds.

I would agree---in so much that I saw many Sanguinary Guard lists----however I'm not sure how well those lists did. I'm sure there were alternative SW lists as well----but when I see the top 3 armies played---also sharing the same characteristic in terms of easy access to cheap gunlineish transports----I don't think that's a coincidence.

I also think that each time you see a BA list that isn't fast Razor w/ Pred spam---it registers more than 'another mech BA player'. You tend to remember the exceptions and not the rule.


All that said---I would love to see a break down of the top 10 BA lists, the top 10 SW lists, etc. That would probably be a better indicator.

You can see/hear all of the video coverage we did of the Finals event here:

http://theindependentcharacters.com/blog/?p=900

I have to say Matt Weeks runs a tight ship. This was a great event and went very smooth. Tony taking the final game was a testament to his skill as a player and I found him to be quite pleasant in person. I would love to get my butt stomped by him at some point.

cvtuttle wrote:You can see/hear all of the video coverage we did of the Finals event here:

http://theindependentcharacters.com/blog/?p=900

I have to say Matt Weeks runs a tight ship. This was a great event and went very smooth. Tony taking the final game was a testament to his skill as a player and I found him to be quite pleasant in person. I would love to get my butt stomped by him at some point.

Independent Characters did a great Job! i can"t wait to watch it my self.

Thanks Matt for running such a tight ship. When i was playing at the final tables there judges everywhere. Never a problem with a single rule issue.

And again congratulations to Tony. He was a great player and a humble person.

whitedragon wrote:

RiTides wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:This is all interesting, but I think I speak for all of us when I ask if Dakka Detachment 2 did better overall than Dakka Detachment 1?

Sigh... wish I could've been there this year.

Seconded!

http://www.adepticon.org/?page_id=2350

Dakka Detachment 2 - 26th, 10 points behind Dakka Detachment 1!

Well that's closer than last year so watch out DD1, DD2 is creeping up!

AgeOfEgos wrote:

Redbeard wrote:First of all, check the colors I added above. Those seem like more statistically relevant breaks. One more person played guard than orks or marines. For all intents and purporses, the top two armies are new MEQ codexes, followed by three armies that are almost equally balanced in representation. Good news for GK players, it would appear.

Also, I believe I saw more Blood Angels on foot (or, perhaps jumping) than meched up. I think there were as many mech orks as mech blood angels - they seemed fairly split between kans and wagons (plus one who ran wazdakka ) Both Wolves and Angels have good mech builds, but they've also got good non-mech builds.

I would agree---in so much that I saw many Sanguinary Guard lists----however I'm not sure how well those lists did. I'm sure there were alternative SW lists as well----but when I see the top 3 armies played---also sharing the same characteristic in terms of easy access to cheap gunlineish transports----I don't think that's a coincidence.

I also think that each time you see a BA list that isn't fast Razor w/ Pred spam---it registers more than 'another mech BA player'. You tend to remember the exceptions and not the rule.


All that said---I would love to see a break down of the top 10 BA lists, the top 10 SW lists, etc. That would probably be a better indicator.

I agree with Redbeard that it wasn't just mech gunline in those top armies. There were a lot of jumping BA, a fair number of SW more focused on TWC, some IG Straken horde, etc. The use of Kill Points as one of the objectives in most (all? I should check) of the missions I think was a factor, too. Three of the four lists I faced had ~9-10 KPs starting on the table, which gave my semi-meched 14kp CSM a little bit of a handicap against them. Blood of Kittens actually has photos of most (not all) of the armies from Friday on their blog. Around 250 photos. I trolled through the entire list last night, and two of my opponents weren't shown. Some armies got two photos.

As noted, the top 16 armies (at least all the ones I saw) were also significantly different from standard mech templates seen online. Tony's SW are meched, but they're meched big squads and tons of bodies; not a bunch of little units in Razors. Jay's nids had 9kps starting. The Ork list had a ton of bodies; not the more common BW build. The IG list at the top had Russes, not just hydras/manticores. I am even more firmly convinced that KPs are a critical component of 5th edition mission/list balance, and do a perceptible job of reining in the true MSU armies in competitive play, when they are actually used, and local players actually make an effort to build lists which give them an advantage in KP.

Ozymandias wrote:

whitedragon wrote:

RiTides wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:This is all interesting, but I think I speak for all of us when I ask if Dakka Detachment 2 did better overall than Dakka Detachment 1?

Sigh... wish I could've been there this year.

Seconded!

http://www.adepticon.org/?page_id=2350

Dakka Detachment 2 - 26th, 10 points behind Dakka Detachment 1!

Well that's closer than last year so watch out DD1, DD2 is creeping up!

It's cause we learn quickly, like Velociraptors.

Thanks to Tinfoil, pretre, and folks for the congratulations.

If I just got the 4 (or was it a 5) I needed on Difficult Terrain for my Oblits to reach Jay Woodcock's (Jay_DaBoyz) termagants on the last turn and drag them off an objective, I would have had the Draw in round 4 which would have seen both of us qualify for Sunday. If I had slightly better armor and cover saves on my Chosen and Terminators, I actually might have beaten or drawn him on KPs as well, taking the W and winning Overall for Friday. But that's the dice. And no credit lost from Jay. He played, as usual, an excellent game, and fielded yet another brutal Tyranid list. The guy's beaten me in tight games in three different GTs now, and is clearly a top player, whereas I remain (IMHO) second-tier.

My list, since someone asked, was:
Lash prince
lash sorc w/personal icon, jump pack (sorry 40kEnthusiast, I know I promised you last year that I'd fix him and give him wings, but I got busy working on my BA)

4 terminators w/chainfist, hvy flamer, 3x combi-meltas
5 Chosen w/3 meltas, 2 flamers, in Rhino w/combi-melta
Dreadnought w/Missile Launcher

10 CSM w/2 meltas, icon of glory, champ w/fist, in Rhino w/combi-melta
10 CSM w/2 meltas, icon of slaanesh, champ w/PW, in Rhino
5 LDs
5 LDs

5 Havocs w/icon of glory, 4x ML
2x 2 oblits
1850
-----------------
Saturday I fielded Raider BA in the team tourney, and demonstrated that I need to actually practice with an army first, as I won two, lost two. Which is probably doing okay since I played only two games with BA prior to Adepticon.

Sunday I had signed up for Combat Patrol, but realized 400pts was not going to slake my thirst for "real" games. I borrowed some of The Everliving's Raider BA as well, and my buddy Jamie/Gilgamesh's Mephiston, and fielded LR BA in the Gladiator. I managed to take 20th with it despite being near-tabled in R1 by multiple-GT-winner Shaun Kemp, also of Da Boyz, and sucking a 0/70pts that round. I got a good draw against DW the second round, and Eldar the third, and got wins in the mid-50s.

So, what did the DD1 guys field for the TT?

They fielded their Chaos Daemons lists again. And stomped a fair number of people, as they usually do.

----------------

Oh, on the Sportsmanship note, I will say that there did seem to be a bit of an issue of some folks handing out Positive marks a little too freely. Like Hulksmash, I read the sheet and scored conscientiously, giving one Positive, two Average, and one Negative to the player who tried to cheat repeatedly. I got four positive votes, but honestly I only feel I really deserved two of them. At 10pts each, Positive votes were a significant factor in Overall standings, and deserved sober consideration and conservative use. I know a few folks also got confused that the "Average" mark was physically listed at the top, then Positive, then Negative. I was there when Brian Clew (an amazing and brutal player and excellent sport, from the Blade & Bolter Boyz) apologized to my friend Jamie Hatcher (Gilgamesh) for accidentally giving him an Average score when he meant to give Positive. Jamie getting only two Positives when I got four was bit of a karmic injustice, as he is always incredibly nice, whether he's kicking your ass or getting his ass kicked; whereas I have a tendency to get a little too serious in some games.

Overall I think the Adepticon Sports system is outstanding and very simple, which is key to getting people to use it fairly. It could stand just to be phrased/explained/presented a little more clearly, at it'll be darn-near perfect.

Many, many kudos to Mattias, Hank, and everyone involved in running Adepticon. It is ridiculously awesome. I always tell everyone about it: "If you love 40k, and you go once, you will go back every year thereafter." It is just amazing.

The guys who flew all the way from Sweden are all eager to return next year, and bring more guys. I have a grudge match already set with Daniel- in his drunken trash-talking state Sunday night he swore that CSM is the weakest codex in 40k, and his BA would table me in a half hour. We were going to play Monday morning on the dining table in the Presidential Suite, but he was too tired/drunk and arrived an hour late, so we couldn't fit in even a short game before I had to leave for the airport. I have not called him a coward or the game a default, however! We have agreed to play Thursday night before next Adepticon, if he or I don't get to the other's country again before then. There's a small chance I'll be able to visit Sweden later this year, in which case we might do it there.

DD1 went all Daemons of Chaos, hard core lists.

DD2 went with themed, fluffy lists and still finished 25, which is pretty good!

Adepticon was awesome this year again, had a great time. I am really pleased with finishing 5th overall considering I didn't have a display board (would have put me in 3rd overall) and I had a raging hangover the first day of the champs.

All of my games but 1 were brutally hard, too. No gimme games, I barely won or lost all of them. Very, very tough competition, which is the way I like it!

It was awesome to see everyone from Dakka and various other sites, I really enjoy catching up with friends form around the country at these big events. Makes for a really great day.

The lists we saw in the top 16 were really varied and not what you would guess. A lot of people do well with unconventional armies, which is why you should look at the internet as a tool, not a definitive resource. Play what works for you!

Already thinking about next year. I want to take home that championship! I came close but Blood Angel (Paul Murphy) knocked me out round one of the finals in a real nail bitter of a game. As is often the case, a few die rolls here and there were what determined who won. It was really nice to meet you Paul, you are a great player. Hopefully I get a rematch in the near future!

I will be posting batreps once I have a minute to catch up with work and life.

Congrats to the winner! Tony and Mannahin did great (as did nearly all of the Dakkanoughts), will done fellas. Monster Rain went 3-0 and Crons! Woot!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On sports, I got 3 positive and 1 average from my only easy game. The guy got creamed by turn 2 because it was a horrible mission/army match up for him. I felt bad but there wasn't anything to be done about it. It stinks he dinged my sports (cost me from finishing 2nd place) but hey, it was his prerogative.

Reecius wrote:DD1 went all Daemons of Chaos, hard core lists.

DD2 went with themed, fluffy lists and still finished 25, which is pretty good!

Would've been perfect for a combo display, since all 8 of you ran Chaos.

Maybe next year?

Though, I think we(DD2) should continue running themed, fluffy stuff(I still say WD's Inq was a good choice fluffily, because it tied having so many varied regiments together). I'll fight for my spot next year.

Hey guys I am going over all the lists from the 16 and my analysis of them if anyone wants to check it out.

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2011/04/05/adepticon-2011-pseudo-live-40k-champ-army-lists-and-anyalsis/

Article seems to be having format/editing/spellcheck/autocorrect issues, Tasty.

Reece, it was great to meet you as well.

I bet you are going to be having some Mephiston nightmares for a while

Hahaha, yeah, but I guess it was inevitable. Bjorn has killed him in every game I have played, and this time he got cut down. But hey, that's the way it goes, you played a good game and got the win, so congratz.

I think I may be building a Meph dart board, though! Hahaha!

tastytaste wrote:Hey guys I am going over all the lists from the 16 and my analysis of them if anyone wants to check it out.

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2011/04/05/adepticon-2011-pseudo-live-40k-champ-army-lists-and-anyalsis/

From a usability perspective - is it feasible to put the lists straight into html, or embed them on the page, rather than make us click through to a pdf and then back to the blog?

Reecius wrote:Hahaha, yeah, but I guess it was inevitable. Bjorn has killed him in every game I have played, and this time he got cut down. But hey, that's the way it goes, you played a good game and got the win, so congratz.

I think I may be building a Meph dart board, though! Hahaha!

List of things to bring every time I face Reece:

1. Pulsa Rokkits
2. Mephiston

@Platuan4th

Hahahaha, that is the perfect storm of suck for me!

Reecius wrote:DD1 went all Daemons of Chaos, hard core lists.

DD2 went with themed, fluffy lists and still finished 25, which is pretty good!

I'm sorry, did Reece 'Bjorn' Reecius just call our Daemons lists hard core?

Really?



As always, Adepticon was a blast. I wimped out - I decided to play Fantasy on Friday, and avoid the 40k Championships in their first year of the new incarnation, so as to avoid any drama. There was no drama; the event ran extremely smoothly, and sounds like everyone had a blast. I enjoyed Fantasy, but I could have saved myself 2 months of frantic skaven-painting, and played 40k instead.

Saturday was the team tournament, which is the primary reason (for me) to attend. I love the format, I really enjoy playing with my teammates, and our now-classic rivalries make the event hilarious.

Sunday was a "give back" day - I helped staff the (newly downsized) Gladiator, which went fairly well. We had some people show up and start building lists at the Army Builder station very late, which cost us 30 minutes off the start (and 15 minutes off of rounds 2 & 3 as a result), and we had some data entry issues at the end of round 1 (score reversals), but most people seemed to take it in stride.

Sunday night was the poker tournament, where a swede took most of my chips, and I ended up dealing (which was better, anyway - all the fun of interacting with the people, and none of the stress).

I played against Meph two other times in the champs and Bjorn took him out the first two times. I guess third time was a charm fro Meph as he cut the old man in two!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Janthkin wrote:

Reecius wrote:DD1 went all Daemons of Chaos, hard core lists.

DD2 went with themed, fluffy lists and still finished 25, which is pretty good!

I'm sorry, did Reece 'Bjorn' Reecius just call our Daemons lists hard core?

Really?

Hey Yak said you guys took the most competitive lists you could! DD1 was using Ogryn, foot Guard, Chaos Dreads, Khorne Daemon Princes, and Yarrick!

Janthkin wrote:

Reecius wrote:DD1 went all Daemons of Chaos, hard core lists.

DD2 went with themed, fluffy lists and still finished 25, which is pretty good!

I'm sorry, did Reece 'Bjorn' Reecius just call our Daemons lists hard core?

Really?

Well, we (DD2) did bring a Hades drill. On the other hand, I'm not ashamed. I brought a winged Khorne Demon Prince, so that evens us out on the "cheese" factor. All the way up until the registration on saturday morning I wrestled with the decision to include Abaddon (and everyone wanted me to), but I declined in the last minute. :(

It probably would have been epic to see if Yarrick + Ogryns could rack up a better tally then Abby!

whitedragon wrote:

Janthkin wrote:

Reecius wrote:DD1 went all Daemons of Chaos, hard core lists.

DD2 went with themed, fluffy lists and still finished 25, which is pretty good!

I'm sorry, did Reece 'Bjorn' Reecius just call our Daemons lists hard core?

Really?

Well, we (DD2) did bring a Hades drill. On the other hand, I'm not ashamed. I brought a winged Khorne Demon Prince, so that evens us out on the "cheese" factor. All the way up until the registration on saturday morning I wrestled with the decision to include Abaddon (and everyone wanted me to), but I declined in the last minute. :(

It probably would have been epic to see if Yarrick + Ogryns could rack up a better tally then Abby!

Seriously, if the Botcon set this year wasn't so WIN, I'd feel like I made the wrong choice of which one to go to(I can always re-take these classes later, right?).

Congrats again to all.

I've been a Space Wolf player for around 16 years now (since the days of 2nd edition) and it warms my heart to see this young blood claw winning some of the best tournaments in the country using my favorite Space Marine Chapter.

Now, I hope he answers Dash's Space Wolf Challenge and puts that upstart Dark Eldar commander in his place for the Glory of Russ!

A few semi-random thoughts...

It used to be about 1/3rd SM armies at UKGTs when CSM were awesome and IG were crap.

The lower proportion at Adepticon probably reflects CSM being knocked back a bit and IG becoming Awesome.

Having lots of KP missions is good for balancing the tournament unless you are a Tau player. Tau are sadly disadvantaged by the current KP rules.

The fact that the top players were using “tier one” codexes with their own, not netlist, lists, arguably shows that they correctly identify the top tier codexes as the strongest, and want to maximise their advantage by playing a list that suits their individual style.

To flip that comment, playing a top tier netlist doesn’t benefit a player as much as knowing their army inside out, but a strong codex has a built in advantage.

The organisation of the event as described by Matthias sounds first rate.

Everyone seems to have had a great time.
!

Not to disparage Doug's winning list, but is it legal for Nobz in boyz mobs to take special weapons? I wasn't aware this was the case. Could someone point me to the discussion or clarification about this?

Glad to see da boyz take the top seat, in any case. Congrats to Mann and Reecius as well!

GrimTeef wrote:Not to disparage Doug's winning list, but is it legal for Nobz in boyz mobs to take special weapons? I wasn't aware this was the case. Could someone point me to the discussion or clarification about this?

It is legal.

Boy gets Slugga and Choppa.
Boy upgrades to Nob with slugga/choppa
For every ten in the mob, one ork may trade slugga or shoota for rokkit, so now you've got a nob with rokkit/choppa
Nob my replace choppa with powerklaw, yielding nob with rokkit/powerklaw.

Not that it gives a lot of benefit, until you're down to the last few models, anyway. Unlike the OLD codex, you can't get an additional special gun in the squad by giving one to the Nob.

It does mean that you have one more attack from the boyz, that's one fewer boy to give up his extra weapon. But, it also means you lose that extra upgrade faster to jaws/vindicares/mind wars.

Reece wins personal hero, 2010/ 2011.

Question.

If DD2 outscores DD1 at Adepticon 2012, does that mean in Adepticon 2013 that DD2 can be renamed DD1?

thehod wrote:Question.

If DD2 outscores DD1 at Adepticon 2012, does that mean in Adepticon 2013 that DD2 can be renamed DD1?

Most likely not. They're older than we are.

@tacobake
Thanks! We should bake some tacos to celebrate!

@thehod
I said the same thing to Centurian99 (Bill Kim) and he disagreed strongly with that! Haha, but he used a lot more colorful language!

@Whitedragon
You should have totally taken Abby, that would have been awesome. Although, your army was on the warpath. My favorite was 5 Khorne Bezerkers killing 25 lootas by themselves!

@Platuan4th
Yeah, those guys are some of the OG Dakkanouts. We're just young upstarts in their eyes, even if we do surpass them in the TT next year....which we will!

Kilkrazy wrote:A few semi-random thoughts...

It used to be about 1/3rd SM armies at UKGTs when CSM were awesome and IG were crap.

The lower proportion at Adepticon probably reflects CSM being knocked back a bit and IG becoming Awesome.

Having lots of KP missions is good for balancing the tournament unless you are a Tau player. Tau are sadly disadvantaged by the current KP rules.

The fact that the top players were using “tier one” codexes with their own, not netlist, lists, arguably shows that they correctly identify the top tier codexes as the strongest, and want to maximise their advantage by playing a list that suits their individual style.

To flip that comment, playing a top tier netlist doesn’t benefit a player as much as knowing their army inside out, but a strong codex has a built in advantage.

The organisation of the event as described by Matthias sounds first rate.

Everyone seems to have had a great time.
!

Using the sortable tables at the adepticon site I came up with this table for average battle points per army

#of P Army Average BP
3 Black Templars 23.333
37 Blood Angels 20.810
13 Chaos Demons 20.000
19 Chaos Space marines 19.210
1 Demon hunters 10
5 Dark Angels 17
8 Dark Eldar 22.500
7 Eldar 23.571
29 Imp guard 18.793
29 Orks 23.103
3 Necrons 20
28 Space Marines 16.785
40 Space Wolves 20.750
5 Tau 8
13 Nids 17.307
4 undecided 21.25

Its a small sample size for a lot of armies so people shouldn't draw to many conclusions from this just thought it was interesting. Also I wasn't there and haven't seen the mission packs (which can have a big effect)

Notes

BA results tended to be really good or really bad.
Space Wolves were solid, a little above average but fairly close.
Eldar did fairly awesome, every player got at least 20 bps but there were only 7 players.
Dark eldar had a decent showing, only eight players though which isn't too suprising 5 months to build, paint, and tweak an army is cutting it close. Nids, had out of 13 players one with 40, and one with 30, every one else 20 or below so that 17 is actually a bit high :(.
Orks did really well, and there were a lot of players so it wasn't fluke, maybe the missions favored them or the net underestimates them?
Suprised to see imp guard as low as they were, again could be mission dependent, and maybe the players who went had a better handle on them.
0 sisters I am really hoping that one of the undecided is a sisters player.
crons and templars only had 3 players apiece so its tough to draw to many conclusions from this.
Tau had a horrible showing but only 5 players.
Xenos fractions only accounted for 65 players and almost 3/4 were orks & nids.

edit spread the table out a bit (ok maybe not)

Deadshane1 wrote:Why come the BFG results dont have fleet races so we know who played what?

I don't know all of them, but while I was playing in the Gladiator the guys I came with swept the podium in BFG.

Joe had a Nurgle fleet and Arron had Eldar. Also this was there first year at Adepticon and they tied for first!

Ted started coming with me three years ago. He had an Ork fleet and came in third. He also has won best fleet all three years.

DD1 took daemons because we just didn't have time for Dark Eldar, I flat out refused to do Orks again, and Tau...

With Daemons, I only needed to add 6 plaguebearers and 6 more fiends to come up with almost all the models we needed (once Janthkin added his Soul Grinders and Bloodcrushers into the mix).

But unfortunately, I got hit with the stupid stick at some point on Saturday, and did some stupid things on Saturday night.

Ah well... at least our display boards looked a lot nicer this year. 40 points for painting is a team high.

just curious, for the team tournament do all 4 players on your team have to play the same race?

Disarray wrote:just curious, for the team tournament do all 4 players on your team have to play the same race?

There are four overarching "themes/archetypes" this year: Imperial, Heretic, Xenos and Hybrid. You declare your team as any one of the four, but there are more benefits to running a single codex/race in some cases.

The rules are available on the adepticon website and are a tad more complex then a simple yes/no answer.

Disarray, go here:
http://www.adepticon.org/?page_id=1727
...under "40k Rules" click "Warhammer 40k national team tournament". Also beside it is a little PDF icon linking to the scenarios.

Did anybody here play AS one of the few, the proud, the old (Necrons, Tau, DA, BT)? I'm curious as to how the games went for them.

Monster Rain played Necrons, and did quite well for himself.

Blackmoor took his Daemonhunters out for a last hurrah. I don't think it went very well.

Janthkin wrote:Blackmoor took his Daemonhunters out for a last hurrah. I don't think it went very well.

it went so bad he shaved the pedo-stache after game 1.

Redbeard wrote:

tastytaste wrote:Hey guys I am going over all the lists from the 16 and my analysis of them if anyone wants to check it out.

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2011/04/05/adepticon-2011-pseudo-live-40k-champ-army-lists-and-anyalsis/

From a usability perspective - is it feasible to put the lists straight into html, or embed them on the page, rather than make us click through to a pdf and then back to the blog?

Fixed most of the problems you mentioned did it live without corrections yesterday went back over it and fixed it up a bit.

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2011/04/05/adepticon-2011-pseudo-live-40k-champ-army-lists-and-anyalsis/

@tastytaste:

Unless my opponent stands still I find it is pretty hard that it could stand up to a full mech IG or Space Wolf force. Once you can kill whatever squad Mephiston is in you can really can make easy work of all the other elements.

You might want to edit that----Mephiston isn't an IC and cannot join units.




@RedBeard and Mann


Ok, I'll eat crow here and take back what I posted earlier------you guys were absolutely right---those lists are very unconventional (Other than the SW list). I wonder if this credits Adepticon with success in scenario building, terrain on the table----or just very, very good players playing wacky lists. Tankbustas and looted wagons?! Dude must be Sun Tzu reincarnated!

A pair of Dark Angels in the top 25, 3 in 30. Nice to see.

Grats to all!

Lorek wrote:Monster Rain played Necrons, and did quite well for himself.

Thanks, buddy! (You too, Reecius! ) I'd like to think I changed some minds at Adepticon.

People were actually quite surprised when their "auto-win" tournament draw turned into a near tabling. Don't believe everything you read on the internetz, people! My one loss was a seriously close game, too. It became unwinnable for me when the Nightbringer (with 3 wounds left) went down to 3 Deffrolla wounds (Failed 3 out of 3 4++ saves on turn 6)! Oh well... Really wish I had been able to bring a display board, but something just had to give for the sake of traveling. Now that I know what I'm doing/where I'm going for next year I'll give myself more time and bring more stuff

Was a fun event and I am glad we meet new people and also put faces to people. Now I have the image of Age of Egos burned in my brained

Darkwynn wrote:Was a fun event and I am glad we meet new people and also put faces to people. Now I have the image of Age of Egos burned in my brained

Hah, it was nice to meet you as well---and what a terrific looking Dark Eldar force.

AgeOfEgos wrote:

Darkwynn wrote:Was a fun event and I am glad we meet new people and also put faces to people. Now I have the image of Age of Egos burned in my brained

Hah, it was nice to meet you as well---and what a terrific looking Dark Eldar force.

Thanks, I was really happy with my performance of the Dark Eldar army. I felt like I was within striking distance of the top 16 all the time. I just made a mistake on my third game which cost it pretty hard for me. Oh well maybe next year.

AgeOfEgos wrote:@tastytaste:

Unless my opponent stands still I find it is pretty hard that it could stand up to a full mech IG or Space Wolf force. Once you can kill whatever squad Mephiston is in you can really can make easy work of all the other elements.

You might want to edit that----Mephiston isn't an IC and cannot join units.




@RedBeard and Mann


Ok, I'll eat crow here and take back what I posted earlier------you guys were absolutely right---those lists are very unconventional (Other than the SW list). I wonder if this credits Adepticon with success in scenario building, terrain on the table----or just very, very good players playing wacky lists. Tankbustas and looted wagons?! Dude must be Sun Tzu reincarnated!

oops meant Sanguinor and Mephiston can go with him hehe squad of two! hehe

tastytaste wrote:

oops meant Sanguinor and Mephiston can go with him hehe squad of two! hehe

Sanguinor isnt an independent character either. Not to mention that even IC's cant join with models that are always units of 1... excepting of course other IC's which neither of these two are.

Luco wrote:A pair of Dark Angels in the top 25, 3 in 30. Nice to see.

Grats to all!

Dark angels did better in the gladiator, i managed best imperial commander (3rd overall) with deathwing+warhound . A good example how one rule change in a codex can make a huge difference.

Grats to all the winners

Sorry im not convinced adepticon has a better formula for tournies. Tau got absolutely shafted in objectives and kill points. 5th is just flawed for some builds/armies. But its better than it has been. I sure dont miss 4th.

Objectives and KPs are 5th edition, as you say. Tau get shafted by having an old codex which doesn't work very well in 5th edition except for a few specific tricks. That's not Adepticon's fault.

I really like the mission format. Choosing which objectives you're going after and being able to change that if the situation changes is really cool.

Matthias wrote:That per Army breakdown is close, but not 100% accurate.

If there were Undecideds listed, it was because we didn't enter their Army during initial check-in. That has since been corrected. First day back at work, lots to catch up on, but I will try to post the true army breakdown list later today, but like i said the above list is pretty close.

I'd also like to point out that we manually checked and verified all 246 army lists for this event during the first two rounds. We didn't find anything too terrible, but we did find a handful of errors that we had the players correct. In rounds 3 and 4 we took all the lists that were still in the running for qualification and rechecked them again. The lists that then qualified for Sunday were checked a third time.

We then retained those lists, made photocopies of them and then returned lists to the players during the Sunday finals. We then had the players set up their armies and visually checked each army on the table versus the list returned to make sure no changes or errors were made. Overall it was a grueling process, but I think it worked very well.

Of course all the tweaks and improvements we made to this event and the convention as a whole go generally unspoken of or unrecognized every year. People tend to have blinders on about a specific event and the numerical results of that event. Understandable, but it all needs some persepctive in terms of logistics.

You deserve a lot of credit for doing so - it would be no easy task to check everyone twice, nvm some three times. Well done.

Someone asked about the sang guard lists and how they did.

I played all Sanguinary Guard, and finished 10th Overall, with 3 wins and 1 loss. I played 2 mech IG, 1 Mech Blood Angels player and lost the last game to Shrike Codex marine razorback spam.

All my opponents won their 3 other games, and my final loss was to last year's hard boyz winner, so I feel the sanguinary guard performed well. The list was,

Dante.
Libby with J.pack, Sanguine Sword and Shield of Sanguinius.

3 X Sang Priests with J.packs, 2 have power swords.

Sang Guard, 2 X infernus pistol, Chapter banner

Sang Guard, infernus pistol, powerfist

Sang Guard, Infernus pistol.

Sang Guard, infernus pistol.

Storm Raven with Hurricane Bolters, TL Lascannon, TL MM.

Furioso with Blood Talons.

The East Coast 'Ard Boyz winner, Clark Welch, right? He's good. Beat me in that AB final.

Nice work! I went 3-0 before being knocked out by Jay Woodcock. That 4th round is a doozy.

spireland wrote:

targetawg wrote:

vonjankmon wrote:Like Lord Severus said I would imagine the combination of being a teenager and bringing what is a more generic list yet beating everyone probably contributed heavily to his sportsmanship score.

Nothing annoys some people more than a "kid" whomping them with a "generic" army when they began the game thinking that it would be an easy win against said "kid" with the "generic" army.

I think that this actually isn't the case nearly as much as people seem to think on the internet. Typically the "sports dinging" and other issues that make everyone fear sports/soft scores aren't nearly as abused in reality. I've only had it happen to me at one major event like 4 years ago. I've won two this year and am probably not the most model human being and have still gotten max/high sports scores. In fact, I think if anything sports scores across the board are abnormally high just because people feel awkward putting down a bad score in front of their opponent/etc.

That being said, his low sports score may indicate his opponents just didn't have a good time (I'm NOT saying this is true). I don't think they insinuate that he "cheated" or "fudged" things, which is probably a misinterpretation of the "data". If he's quiet, reserved, and no nonsense, thats probably why he got a low score, nothing more, nothing less. People want to chat and be social during games, esp. if their just getting stomped in the game to begin with. Getting stomped in silence is probably pretty devoid of enjoyment, as most players who lose and still have a good time give a reason like "but my opponent was a nice/fun guy, and we had a good time".

I don't mean to flame the above poster, but you are pointing out everything that is wrong with soft scores.

Why should a player get penalized for being "quiet, reserved or no nonesense"? Why should a player be judged on thier ability to entertain your opponent. There is a place for this type of play, its at a 3 round FLGS tournie or garage hammer, not at a 200 person tournament.

This soft scoring stuff has got to go away. It is ridiculous.

In the end, it's still a game, and you have to be social in order to properly communicate and convey what's going on. When you just silently go about your business, without asking or answering questions, and some of the moves you make are viewed as questionable (yet you say nothing), it makes perfect sense to score said player low.

This game can't not be social, unless it moved 100% online like Magic: the Gathering. And for the record, MtGO has created a lot of douchebag players who have no social skills whatsoever. In the end, it's a game that requires some measure of social interaction.

Even poker players playing for millions of dollars are social at the table. People with your mentality are what's wrong with tournaments. Your attitude should go away. It is ridiculous.


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Kilkrazy wrote:

The fact that the top players were using “tier one” codexes with their own, not netlist, lists, arguably shows that they correctly identify the top tier codexes as the strongest, and want to maximise their advantage by playing a list that suits their individual style.

To flip that comment, playing a top tier netlist doesn’t benefit a player as much as knowing their army inside out, but a strong codex has a built in advantage.

I highlighted those thoughts for one reason: More people are picking a list that is exceedingly forgiving instead of learning the army inside-and-out. When piloted by an amazing general, the stats showed that Black Templars, Orks, and Eldar were the top of the crop. The Space Wolves were in such high numbers because it's the easiest codex to dart-board without falling flat on one's face. Imperial Guard units come with complicated rules, and thus reward good play, while Space Wolves units can "hur-dee-dur" their way to success due to sheer versatility vs. points cost.

I'm not saying the codex is broken, because it's not. But it does offer the most forgiving options.

As a reminder, Tony was not scored low, per the scoring guidelines. Even if the average was higher than he got, the score he received by the actual rules was three "average" and one "fantastic game". Which means no one actually marked him as a bad or unpleasant opponent.

brassangel wrote:
In the end, it's still a game, and you have to be social in order to properly communicate and convey what's going on. When you just silently go about your business, without asking or answering questions, and some of the moves you make are viewed as questionable (yet you say nothing), it makes perfect sense to score said player low.

This game can't not be social, unless it moved 100% online like Magic: the Gathering. And for the record, MtGO has created a lot of douchebag players who have no social skills whatsoever. In the end, it's a game that requires some measure of social interaction.

Even poker players playing for millions of dollars are social at the table. People with your mentality are what's wrong with tournaments. Your attitude should go away. It is ridiculous.


I highlighted those thoughts for one reason: More people are picking a list that is exceedingly forgiving instead of learning the army inside-and-out. When piloted by an amazing general, the stats showed that Black Templars, Orks, and Eldar were the top of the crop. The Space Wolves were in such high numbers because it's the easiest codex to dart-board without falling flat on one's face. Imperial Guard units come with complicated rules, and thus reward good play, while Space Wolves units can "hur-dee-dur" their way to success due to sheer versatility vs. points cost.

I'm not saying the codex is broken, because it's not. But it does offer the most forgiving options.

Good post dude---I agree with the social aspect of the hobby. When you spend 2-3 hours rolling dice----it's absolutely a social contract. When I spend time playing a game with someone----I recognize that he's taking time away from his wife/children/family in hopes to having some fun playing a silly game. I recognize that and act accordingly---and I expect the same from him. This doesn't mean I hug guys when they roll dice and give them back massages after they move 90 Orks---but I do try to joke around a bit, pick out something I like about his army/compliment him on it----and be as clear as possible on what I'm doing (Moving this unit to establish line of sight here---I can see right?).



RE: Top tier lists----I mostly agree with you. I would just add that tournament organizers can have a tremendous impact on what lists become top tier. For example, if a tournament awards 5 KP for each vehicle destroyed----yet only 1 KP for each non-vehicle unit---it will greatly affect the lists built for the event. At first, I thought it was just Razorspam/Gunline that wiped the tournament----but I'll eat crow now after seeing the lists and admit I was quite wrong. I consider this a credit to Adepticon's mission creation. I like seeing different lists having a go----variety is good for everyone.