Kurce wrote:Ya know... I am not surprised that people are that stupid to think that you could ally with yourself. I cannot believe that people actually thought this...
I was going to point out that this was bordering on the rude... but I'm still trying to figure out how those two statements manage to coexist in the same paragraph.
So how about we settle with: 'Please, keep it civil', accept that some people made judgements based on incomplete rumours or out of date information and move on?
I do not think the two are mutually exclusive. I had a little paragraph typed out explaining what I meant but I figured you would give me an infraction for it just by virtue of mentioning that someone else is stupid so I just decided not to post it.
Either way, so I have read that vehicles no longer leave craters when they blow up. When a vehicle becomes wrecked does it still just leave the vehicle there in place? If so, can your opponent drive his tanks over it? I remember watching a game where a guy wrecked his opponent's Rhino and drove his Predator on top of his opponent's Rhino so he could get a better view of the board. It is a silly rule in my opinion.
...Mandrakes, Beasts would all like a word with you on DE not being an assaulty army.
I really expect the DE to get one of the more detailed and longer FAQs. Much of their codex will become worthless if you loose 1/3 to 1/2 of the squad to overwatch fire. This also effects things like Eldar aspect warriors, trukk boys, kroot, etc. Overwatch does really nothing against the standard MEQ, but brutalizes anything with a 5+ or worse armor save.
Thats funny as it reminds me of the 3rd ed DE codex, half of their wargear was useless. And what do you know most of the Assault armies are with crappy saves. So this snap fire/overwatch stuff is going to kill those armies as well as the remove from the front. I am expecting this to be a very shooty edition. I don't forsee many armies trying to assault except for maybe marines as they can handle the snapshot/overwatch fire. It will be an interesting thing for sure.
RiTides wrote:Fleet is NOT useless! In fantasy, the equivalent / similar rule (swiftstride) that allows you to roll 3 dice and pick the highest 2 for assaulting, is incredibly useful.
I could be wrong, but from what I've read I think fleet allows you to reroll only 1 of the assault dice? Which would mean you could keep a high number and reroll a low. Which could be extremely useful for making it into assaults.
Fifth edition Fleet units' assault range: 1d6 + 6" range, for an average of 9.5", maximum of 12"
Non-fleet units' assault range: 6" range.
Sixth edition Fleet units' assault range: 2d6 with reroll, for an average of 7", maximum of 12"
Non-fleet units' assault range: 2d6 (with reroll on jump packs and possibly more), for an average of 7", maximum of 12"
1 - Thank you for doing this.
2 - Can we get a clarification on snipers....even the reddit flow had some contradiction in it.
* they for certain pick the target model if they roll a 6
* do they still have some kind of rend, or ap 1/2 on a 6 to hit or wound?
the rifle is str X ap 6, heavy 1 sniper, sniper USR wounds on 4+ and has rending as well as precision attack if the hit roll is a 6 (note ALL characters have preciosion attack)
3 - Rapid fire - again, contradictory reports - can a unit move and still shoot once at max range?
it does not say you can or cant (that I can find) the fluff for rapid fire says "can be effictively shot from the hip while advancing, so I say yes you can, but thats a judgement call on my part
4 - Rending attacks: again, contradictory reports.
* does rending get ap2 on a 6 to hit or wound?
ap2 on a hit of 6 to wound
* does rending auto wound on a 6 to hit?
no wound
5 - Is the smash thing MC's get, is it: Auto hit, is it I10?
yes jump troops also get it, str of attack is str of model
Thank you again sir.
Mandor wrote:
That plus fleet made useless, every vehicle can now move flatout, AP2 or AP3 special weapons, losing 9 minus D6 assault range from transports not even counting overwatch deaths, every skimmer getting a 5+ save, etc.
Read the first post again. Especially the part about 'DON'T PANIC'.
I know, I know, don't panic, but at the very least, we DE whiners are still talking about the topic: "6th ed rumour". We're participating in the discussion on how the rumoured assault changes have affected us, in a rumour thread. It's not like we're sending threats to GW and burning our DE models already out of sadness... We'll save that for when we've confirmed our doom.
In any case, I just realised that our run drug will be useless as well, if all rumours so far turned out to be true.
I think, as a DE player, I can see how others aren't seeing the same thing, we're used to being the speedy assault army, we have army-wide run+charge, giving us, at the very minimum, a 7" assault range, in exchange for our amazing speed, we have poor strength and poor defense. With the 6th ed rumours so far though, it seems we have lost the speed advantage of our army, and are just left with the poor defense part, if not poorer defense(5+ FNP).
No, 2D6" isn't a buff for any army that has fleet assault, we got 12" max assault range in 5th ed already, but now we're rolling 2-12" vs 7"-12" of before. It's a buff to every army out there that doesn't have fleet assault(though, from my understanding, they get FC or other goodness in exchange), because they too would have a chance to do 12" assault now.
I am glad that our Talos/Cronos are getting better, but I wouldn't say they got better, but more like the rest of the army has gotten weaker, so even a Talos/Cronos looks good to us.
@Rattman: Wound allocation. How exactly does it work?
In a multi AP attack how do you decide when to allocate a hit?
Example: Crisis suit attacks a unit. 1 MP<AP4> and 1 Plas<AP2> hit and wound. Lets say the closest guy has an Inv save. is the Defender allowed to put the plas on the nearest and a MP on the next guy? Is that even how it works in 6E?
RiTides wrote:Fleet is NOT useless! In fantasy, the equivalent / similar rule (swiftstride) that allows you to roll 3 dice and pick the highest 2 for assaulting, is incredibly useful.
I could be wrong, but from what I've read I think fleet allows you to reroll only 1 of the assault dice? Which would mean you could keep a high number and reroll a low. Which could be extremely useful for making it into assaults.
Fifth edition Fleet units' assault range: 1d6 + 6" range, for an average of 9.5", maximum of 12"
Non-fleet units' assault range: 6" range.
Sixth edition Fleet units' assault range: 2d6 with reroll, for an average of 7", maximum of 12"
Non-fleet units' assault range: 2d6 (with reroll on jump packs and possibly more), for an average of 7", maximum of 12"
So what does fleet offer me again?
The ability to do maths?
2D6 with one re-roll is not 7". I have no idea what it is, I'm not good enough at maths. I'd guess an extra couple of inches.
Battle bros. = use all equipment (death company in vendettas for example) and abilities (Sang Priest in guard blob for universal FnP?) or do they just like each other a whole lot?
Alpharius wrote:Hard to see how Tyranids would ally with anyone, no matter what the circumstances.
I agree, but some of the other alliances on that table are so arbitrary and/or fluff-breaking that I can't see a good reason why they were singled out for 'Always Alone' treatment.
...Mandrakes, Beasts would all like a word with you on DE not being an assaulty army.
Kabalite Warriors, kabalite trueborn, ravagers, scourges, reavers, open-topped transports, razorwings, voidravens, venoms. The point is that it doesn't HAVE to be assaulty. Shooty works to and in an edition that IMO (without a book) looks to be shooty heavy DE will survive.
As for the missiles...that is 30pts per shot an an expensive (although I get it now) vehicle that you still get an invul save on so TH/SS termis don't really care and that is after a wounds or toughness test (can't remember) so it is far from a guaranteed thing and that is probably the only thing that can reliably take on termis as I really doubt dissies will show back up in this codex...now if we get the old ones back...now I'm just being silly.
2 - Can we get a clarification on snipers....even the reddit flow had some contradiction in it.
* they for certain pick the target model if they roll a 6
* do they still have some kind of rend, or ap 1/2 on a 6 to hit or wound?
the rifle is str X ap 6, heavy 1 sniper, sniper USR wounds on 4+ and has rending as well as precision attack if the hit roll is a 6 (note ALL characters have preciosion attack)
Deathmarks will be awesome in 6th edition
Also, whilst reading the latest WD earlier, one of the GW employees talking about how his Tau will improve during 6th specifically said with regards to fire warriors and I quote "not only can they move and still rapid fire up to 30" away..."
Either he means they are firing rapid firing weapons once at 30" or units can move and fire twice which makes Deathmarks even better!
Alpharius wrote:Hard to see how Tyranids would ally with anyone, no matter what the circumstances.
I agree, but some of the other alliances on that table are so arbitrary and/or fluff-breaking that I can't see a good reason why they were singled out for 'Always Alone' treatment.
I can answer this! (as I did so about 20-30 pages back) batle bro's are counted as friendly units, so they can embark in other transports, be joined by other IC's and gain benefit to any rules that effect friendly units, including warlord traits. Everthing else are counted as enemies, and don't benefit from the things mentioned above.
EDIT: of and any warlord traits that effect enemies ALSO effect them non-battle bros., so keep them away from your warlord
Wrath wrote:@Rattman: Wound allocation. How exactly does it work?
In a multi AP attack how do you decide when to allocate a hit?
Example: Crisis suit attacks a unit. 1 MP<AP4> and 1 Plas<AP2> hit and wound. Lets say the closest guy has an Inv save. is the Defender allowed to put the plas on the nearest and a MP on the next guy? Is that even how it works in 6E?
Been dreading the wound allocation questuin, read it a few times and still not happy with my understanding of it, think I will beg off that question till I get chance to see it in a real game
ok so pyschic powers
biomancy
primary power is a basic smite
caster gets D3 str and toughness
target unit get -1 str and toughness
target unit get FNP assault 2 every unsaved would heals one off caster
pysker get +d3 init target makes toughness test or take 1 wound no save, if slain jumps to model with in 2' and make save. continue till someone saves or no targets left
divination
primary target unit rerolls failed hits
psycher and unit gain counter attack and get full BS for overwatch
target unit gain 4++
target unit must reroll passed armor saves
psycher and unit ignore cover
psyker rerolls failed failed hits, wounds and armor saves
psyker roll 3 dicechoose the result you want when rolling for reserves, outflank and mysterious terrain
pyromancy
primary flame breath (flamer)
psyker gains 4+ invo
target unit gains 4+ cover save
flame attack assault 1, sould blaze (no idea) blast, ignore cover
target model takes 1 wound , no armor or cover save allowed, place small blast template anyone hit takes a str 4 ap 5 hit
assault 2d6, blind, ignore cover attack
str 8, ap 1 assault 1, melta
telekenisis
assault 1 str 6 . strikedown (halves init and target moves as if its dangerous terrain)
roll 2d6 target takes hit equal to strength (11 or 12 auto wound) ap is equal to seperate dice roll
remove models from table, deepstrike within 24 inchs of where they were
hostile unit must reroll hits and wounds of 6
assault D6 pinning attack
all friendlies with 12 inchs get 5++
str 10, heavy 1 blast
telepathy
primary 3d6 - target leadership wounds to target unit
target unit has to make leadership roll or do nothing
target freindly stops falling back and gets fearless
hostile model makes an attack as if it owned by psyker
target hostile losses fearless and treats all units as fear causing
invisibility gains shrouding and stealth, hostiles charged by this unit lose counter attack and fight at WS 1
roll on table 1-2 unit pinned, 3-4 cannot run, shoot or stirke blows 5-6 attack own unit
Thank you very much, Rattman! You made my day!
Now to figure out if the tables are better than Vanilla Marine powers.
MPJ wrote:2 - Can we get a clarification on snipers....even the reddit flow had some contradiction in it.
* they for certain pick the target model if they roll a 6
* do they still have some kind of rend, or ap 1/2 on a 6 to hit or wound?
the rifle is str X ap 6, heavy 1 sniper, sniper USR wounds on 4+ and has rending as well as precision attack if the hit roll is a 6 (note ALL characters have preciosion attack)
Deathmarks will be awesome in 6th edition
Also, whilst reading the latest WD earlier, one of the GW employees talking about how his Tau will improve during 6th specifically said with regards to fire warriors and I quote "not only can they move and still rapid fire up to 30" away..."
Either he means they are firing rapid firing weapons once at 30" or units can move and fire twice which makes Deathmarks even better!
moving: 1 shot full range/2 shots half range
standing still: 2 shots full range/2 shots half range
so, yes, deathmarks just got an upgrade and should now FIRMLY be the best snipers in the game... can't wait to roll some 6's and allocate wounds on my target unit....good bye mister powerfist...
And seeming all our close combat weapons that ignore armour are not listed as power weapons (just says ignores armour save) we can kill termies with our basic 'power sword' (hyperphase sword) while everyone else can't ah the joys of being a necron...
Wrath wrote:@Rattman: Wound allocation. How exactly does it work?
In a multi AP attack how do you decide when to allocate a hit?
Example: Crisis suit attacks a unit. 1 MP<AP4> and 1 Plas<AP2> hit and wound. Lets say the closest guy has an Inv save. is the Defender allowed to put the plas on the nearest and a MP on the next guy? Is that even how it works in 6E?
Been dreading the wound allocation questuin, read it a few times and still not happy with my understanding of it, think I will beg off that question till I get chance to see it in a real game
Joey wrote:
The ability to do maths?
2D6 with one re-roll is not 7". I have no idea what it is, I'm not good enough at maths. I'd guess an extra couple of inches.
I'd say the difference is that for most DE assault units, when we disembark from our paper boats, we'd want them to be guaranteed assault, so they can't be shot at. While, say a MEq or horde assault unit, would fare a lot better standing in the open either through sheer number or good armour save. So while 2D6" with reroll can possibly get us the same range as before, we'd prefer knowing that we have 7" safe assault distance, rather than having an increased chance of being shot at from overwatch, then again for failing an assault.
I wouldn't argue that for non-fleet armies, they got buffed with 2D6", but on DE's perspective, we certainly got nerfed hard. If all rumours are true.
Also, what is so speedy about DE anymore if we can't do better assault distance than any army out there?
Akroma06 wrote:
Kabalite Warriors, kabalite trueborn, ravagers, scourges, reavers, open-topped transports, razorwings, voidravens, venoms. The point is that it doesn't HAVE to be assaulty. Shooty works to and in an edition that IMO (without a book) looks to be shooty heavy DE will survive.
As for the missiles...that is 30pts per shot an an expensive (although I get it now) vehicle that you still get an invul save on so TH/SS termis don't really care and that is after a wounds or toughness test (can't remember) so it is far from a guaranteed thing and that is probably the only thing that can reliably take on termis as I really doubt dissies will show back up in this codex...now if we get the old ones back...now I'm just being silly.
Combat drugs, furious charge from power from pain, army-wide fleet.
Also, for competitive reason, we'd have lost our already weaker-assault options, and the already-stronger shooty DE option is all that's left for us... Personally, I prefer having the choice between an 1 and a 2, rather than a -10 and a 2. Kinda make the assault build pointless, wouldn't you say?
Matt.Kingsley wrote:I can answer this! (as I did so about 20-30 pages back)
batle bro's are counted as friendly units, so they can embark in other transports, be joined by other IC's and gain benefit to any rules that effect friendly units, including warlord traits.
Everthing else are counted as enemies, and don't benefit from the things mentioned above.
Sorry thats wrong, IC can lead allied squad. But CANNOT embark in allied vehicles. no asault marines in valk. pisses me off because I wont be able carry bjorn into battle in a storm raven playing flight of the valkyrie
Matt.Kingsley wrote:
standing still: 2 shots full range/2 shots half range
Wrong no example I could find allows you 2 shots at max range
Maige wrote:Mr Morden: thats not a change in fluff - thats acknowledging and following the fluff.
Then what the hell is Necrons + GK supposed to represent?
A cheesy Matt Ward wet dream?
Necrons and GK already have an interaction, since it's heavily hinted that the Necrons gave the GK their Tesseract Labyrinth things.
I thought it was that Inquisitor Valeria (?) was sent one as a gift afer she tried to raid a Necron world? I can see however that the Necrons would be in favour of disrupting the influence of Chaos in the material world and so might attack daemonic incursions at the same time as Gk's did and ignore them as a secondary target
Basically Valeria invaded Trazyn's halls, big fight ensued. She escaped and he captured a bunch of her men and sent her the Tesserach Labyrinth as a f-you with a side of lulztrollface. Essentially he was sending it as a trap for her, but if she was smart enough to escape it's clutches (she obviously was), she could consider it a "gift" (basically showing how little of a threat he thinks her to be.) Someone in the GW office must have read that and not gotten the joke and though "Oh, they must be best buds!"
That's my take on the whole situation anyway.
It kind of makes my want to make a tiny little trollface mask to put on Trazyn now. like a cheap halloween mask
Actually she contacted him after fighting her way free of his halls saying that one of his dioramas was in correct and offered to send him some dudes to make it accurate. He was grateful and sent her a prize that would also be a trap.
I am looking forward to this edition more and more, and honestly I cant see people playing many of these combos that people worry about. Also with these changes for 6th edition I see a lot of things in the G knights book are balanced out a bit(things like halberds). The solar pulse for the necrons(and imotek) are much more balanced out I think. People complain about the randomness added to the game but at the same time I feel like they have removed a good portion of it as well and made things very reliable(with things like premeasuring)
MPJ wrote:2 - Can we get a clarification on snipers....even the reddit flow had some contradiction in it.
* they for certain pick the target model if they roll a 6
* do they still have some kind of rend, or ap 1/2 on a 6 to hit or wound?
the rifle is str X ap 6, heavy 1 sniper, sniper USR wounds on 4+ and has rending as well as precision attack if the hit roll is a 6 (note ALL characters have preciosion attack)
Deathmarks will be awesome in 6th edition
Also, whilst reading the latest WD earlier, one of the GW employees talking about how his Tau will improve during 6th specifically said with regards to fire warriors and I quote "not only can they move and still rapid fire up to 30" away..."
Either he means they are firing rapid firing weapons once at 30" or units can move and fire twice which makes Deathmarks even better!
moving: 1 shot full range/2 shots half range
standing still: 2 shots full range/2 shots half range
MK, my apologies if this has indeed been confirmed with someone with an actual book, but so far I have only seen "rumors" regarding this ...um...rumor.
So, until I see that it has indeed been confirmed, I consider it to be speculative at best, or wishlisthing at worst.
Again, my apologies if it has been confirmed from an actual book.
MK, my apologies if this has indeed been confirmed with someone with an actual book, but so far I have only seen "rumors" regarding this ...um...rumor.
So, until I see that it has indeed been confirmed, I consider it to be speculative at best, or wishlisthing at worst.
Again, my apologies if it has been confirmed from an actual book.
One way that could possibly work to still make assault DE worthwhile is to ignore the fluff and play...defensively
Keep your assault units in raiders with disintegrator cannons as long as possible and as far back as possible and preferably in cover and shoot the MEQ and TEQ a turn or two to reduce the squads so that when you inevitably charge them with your assault units, you'll suffer less overwatch fire or maybe some squads will be dead and you can focuse two of yours on one of theirs, sparing an entire squad from being shot at
Of course, this is far from fool proof and it is rather boring and possibly even douchey, but what choice else do we have?
Oh god, I just realized, 10 Space Marines with Combat Knives can glance a tank to death no problem.
20 attacks on the charge, if the tank moved, 1/3 misses, so about 3~ misses. That leaves 17 Dice that can be a 6. 3 of them, THE COMBAT KNIVES KILLED A TANK! GO TEAM!
are there many more specific USR that are not in 5th edition that you might be able to point out?
20 attacks on the charge, if the tank moved, 1/3 misses, so about 3~ misses. That leaves 17 Dice that can be a 6. 3 of them, THE COMBAT KNIVES KILLED A TANK! GO TEAM!
1/3 of 20 is not 3
1/3 of 20 = 6-7 so approx 14 hits which equats to about 2 glances (still borked but what can you do?)
Evil Lamp 6 wrote:Or SoB and Necrons, or SoB and Eldar. From C:WH, "The entire Eldar race are deviant witches."
Right.
You know the GK codex has Ordo Xenos inquisitors, right?
And you know what radical xenos inquisitors do, right?
I swear I'm fething sick of people complaining about GW breaking the fluff when they know nothing about the fluff or the rules themselves.
On the allies thing;
Here are two points that could help just let it go...
1) Story wise, anyone creative could come up with a justification why any of the mixes the new chart suggest could come into play for at least a single battle.
2) Fluff is 100% totally thrown out the window for years now by almost every single player in most games: there are no restrictions on who you fight AGAINST.
So, what part is harder to believe in any random battle; that Calgar would fight alongside some aliens for a common cause, or that he would fight against lysander or Dragio....
Crazyterran wrote:Oh god, I just realized, 10 Space Marines with Combat Knives can glance a tank to death no problem.
20 attacks on the charge, if the tank moved, 1/3 misses, so about 3~ misses. That leaves 17 Dice that can be a 6. 3 of them, THE COMBAT KNIVES KILLED A TANK! GO TEAM!
Whoops.
Tactical squads have krak grenades.
And they wouldn't use knives, more likely they'd rip exhaust chaft off, open up the hatch and strangle the operator, etc.
Light armour shouldn't be able to sit still next to space marines...
MK, my apologies if this has indeed been confirmed with someone with an actual book, but so far I have only seen "rumors" regarding this ...um...rumor.
So, until I see that it has indeed been confirmed, I consider it to be speculative at best, or wishlisthing at worst.
Again, my apologies if it has been confirmed from an actual book.
the red is from someone with the book...
the rest is specualtion
My bad, I was not specific (I know the red is from someone with a book...I asked that part of that question) I was referring to the rapid fire part:
moving: 1 shot full range/2 shots half range
standing still: 2 shots full range/2 shots half range
Has THIS been verified with a book? Yes, I know, its been in rumors for a long time....but again, this is a very big deal, and I would like to know if I just missed it if it has indeed been book confirmed, or is it still just a rumor....
MPJ wrote:2 - Can we get a clarification on snipers....even the reddit flow had some contradiction in it.
* they for certain pick the target model if they roll a 6
* do they still have some kind of rend, or ap 1/2 on a 6 to hit or wound?
the rifle is str X ap 6, heavy 1 sniper, sniper USR wounds on 4+ and has rending as well as precision attack if the hit roll is a 6 (note ALL characters have preciosion attack)
Deathmarks will be awesome in 6th edition
Also, whilst reading the latest WD earlier, one of the GW employees talking about how his Tau will improve during 6th specifically said with regards to fire warriors and I quote "not only can they move and still rapid fire up to 30" away..."
Either he means they are firing rapid firing weapons once at 30" or units can move and fire twice which makes Deathmarks even better!
moving: 1 shot full range/2 shots half range
standing still: 2 shots full range/2 shots half range
MK, my apologies if this has indeed been confirmed with someone with an actual book, but so far I have only seen "rumors" regarding this ...um...rumor.
So, until I see that it has indeed been confirmed, I consider it to be speculative at best, or wishlisthing at worst.
Again, my apologies if it has been confirmed from an actual book.
tbh, I'm only guessing about the standing still bit, but I know that the moving is true (from the tau comment)
that, or my assumptions are incorrect and moving is better then what I said, which I doubt
Evil Lamp 6 wrote:Or SoB and Necrons, or SoB and Eldar. From C:WH, "The entire Eldar race are deviant witches."
Right.
You know the GK codex has Ordo Xenos inquisitors, right?
And you know what radical xenos inquisitors do, right?
I swear I'm fething sick of people complaining about GW breaking the fluff when they know nothing about the fluff or the rules themselves.
Funny, I see a lack of Ordo Xenos Inquisitors in either C:WH or the WDSoB codex. And then there's that whole Sanctuary 101 thing. I doubt the SoB ever really got over that one.
Sorry about the lack of quote, but editing is tough on my phone.
Leth, Trazyn was just phrasing things in a teasing manner. Valeria fought her way free and sent in an army to take him out. He said "oh, how thoughtful, you sent me a present!" as a mocking reply.
Joey wrote:The ability to do maths?
2D6 with one re-roll is not 7". I have no idea what it is, I'm not good enough at maths. I'd guess an extra couple of inches.
That's hard to determine, because unlike shooting, it is not based on absolute hits or misses.
But let's do a fxed example.
I have a raider with 8 wyches at the deployment line, 25" away from an enemy shooty unit, for sake of argument, 9 marines with bolters.
Total: 2.5+6+6+2D6 = 14.5" + 2D6 I need to roll 11 on the charge, so I have a 1-(3/36+33/36*3/36) = 84% chance to fail the assault.
However, we did not take into account the Marines defensive firing.
Marines defensive fire at the Wyches killing (18*1/6*2/3=) 2 wyches. I have to remove the front Wyches, which makes it quite possible for me to need a 12 on the assault roll.
Edit: one "advantage" I failed to take into account is that I'm able to shoot with my Wyches. Though this might kill one or two Marines, these casualties would have to be removed from the front again, making it even more unlikely for me to reach assault.
Joey wrote:Harlequins are not a race listed on the allies matrix. Try again.
Please don't be so intentionally obtuse.
Dark Eldar. Dark Eldar can take Harlis. Dark Eldar can take Slaaneshi Daemon allies at the same time. Dark Eldar who hate Slaanesh. Harlies hate Slaanesh even more.
MPJ wrote:2 - Can we get a clarification on snipers....even the reddit flow had some contradiction in it.
* they for certain pick the target model if they roll a 6
* do they still have some kind of rend, or ap 1/2 on a 6 to hit or wound?
the rifle is str X ap 6, heavy 1 sniper, sniper USR wounds on 4+ and has rending as well as precision attack if the hit roll is a 6 (note ALL characters have preciosion attack)
Deathmarks will be awesome in 6th edition
Also, whilst reading the latest WD earlier, one of the GW employees talking about how his Tau will improve during 6th specifically said with regards to fire warriors and I quote "not only can they move and still rapid fire up to 30" away..."
Either he means they are firing rapid firing weapons once at 30" or units can move and fire twice which makes Deathmarks even better!
moving: 1 shot full range/2 shots half range
standing still: 2 shots full range/2 shots half range
MK, my apologies if this has indeed been confirmed with someone with an actual book, but so far I have only seen "rumors" regarding this ...um...rumor.
So, until I see that it has indeed been confirmed, I consider it to be speculative at best, or wishlisthing at worst.
Again, my apologies if it has been confirmed from an actual book.
tbh, I'm only guessing about the standing still bit, but I know that the moving is true (from the tau comment)
that, or my assumptions are incorrect and moving is better then what I said, which I doubt
The way I read the book is rapid fire is exactly like 5th ed, but you can move now. so
2 shots at under half or 1 shot at full regardless of moving or not
I would like to know if the "Hammer of wrath" is affected by charging through terrain, going down to I1?
This one's been bugging me for days: Rage - is it +2 attacks IN ADDITION TO the normal bonus attack from charging, so the unit will in effect get +3 attacks on the charge?
If you can be arsed, an explanation of how disembarking from Wrecked/Exploded vehicles works, plus what happens to the crew when the vehicle was destroyed in close combat - can the assulting unit lock in close combat with the disembarking unit, if the assaulters cover the disembarking points?
Any changes to Emergency Disembark, can the unit inside the transport still be destroyed if the vehicle is surrounded by enemies?
MPJ wrote:One way that could possibly work to still make assault DE worthwhile is to ignore the fluff and play...defensively
Keep your assault units in raiders with disintegrator cannons as long as possible and as far back as possible and preferably in cover and shoot the MEQ and TEQ a turn or two to reduce the squads so that when you inevitably charge them with your assault units, you'll suffer less overwatch fire or maybe some squads will be dead and you can focuse two of yours on one of theirs, sparing an entire squad from being shot at
Of course, this is far from fool proof and it is rather boring and possibly even douchey, but what choice else do we have?
Darklight spam. Our drugs, most of our special rules, our much better looking assault units will be put away, but at the very least, our darklight spam will still be pretty good....
I'll still continue to build my hybrid DE army, but I know if all these rumours are true, I'll need to be a master tactician* to win any game.
I feel like the whole "power weapons" thing is going to be a mess.
Eldrad's staff? Yriel's sword? The Staff Of Tomorrow? Warscythes? Boneswords? Way too many odd examples. They had better be thorough with the FAQ.
Speaking of which, I wonder when we can expect that. What is the book's actual release date?
RegulusBlack wrote:are there many more specific USR that are not in 5th edition that you might be able to point out?
20 attacks on the charge, if the tank moved, 1/3 misses, so about 3~ misses. That leaves 17 Dice that can be a 6. 3 of them, THE COMBAT KNIVES KILLED A TANK! GO TEAM!
1/3 of 20 is not 3
1/3 of 20 = 6-7 so approx 14 hits which equats to about 2 glances (still borked but what can you do?)
I did 1/6th mentally instead of 1/3.
Crap.
And yeah, I remembered Krak Grenades. 3 Misses, 3 glances. I was more amused by the thought of 10 Space Marines running in and glancing a tank to death. "Oh god, they scratched the armor 3 times with their knives, the tank can't take much mor---"
Joey wrote:Harlequins are not a race listed on the allies matrix.
Try again.
Please don't be so intentionally obtuse.
Dark Eldar. Dark Eldar can take Harlis. Dark Eldar can take Slaaneshi Daemon allies at the same time. Dark Eldar who hate Slaanesh. Harlies hate Slaanesh even more.
This isn't rocket surgery.
Right. So that alliance should be dissallowd because of that specific instance where a player can, if he wishes, make an unfluffy army?
Should all ally combinations be pre-approved by you before tabletop use?
In fact, why stop there. Make sure ALL lists are approved by you first. Lysander in an Ultramarines army? Rejected. Imperial Guard Priest in a ratling squad? Rejected.
Could a Dark Eldar force without harlequins ally with a Tzeenchian demon army?
Is there any possible of combination whatsoever that satiates your desire for fluff perfection?
Evil Lamp 6 wrote:Or SoB and Necrons, or SoB and Eldar. From C:WH, "The entire Eldar race are deviant witches."
Right.
You know the GK codex has Ordo Xenos inquisitors, right?
And you know what radical xenos inquisitors do, right?
I swear I'm fething sick of people complaining about GW breaking the fluff when they know nothing about the fluff or the rules themselves.
SoB aren't part of the GK. The Grey Knights and the Inquisition have their own entry on that list. Sisters are part of the Ecclesiarchy - the alien-hating church that tends to burn anything that doesn't conform to its standards of human purity.
If they hit dead on and if the enemy is dumb enough to clump up 200 pts of termies into a space hittable by the blast (unlikely)..
And that's always assuming you have some Termies in sight to shoot at before your spendy paper plane is shot down.
So a 30p wargear should make me skip the possibility to deepstrike my termies? Check!
Also the second argument is moot. What if I take plasmaguns and then meet no power armour enemie?
What if tau take railguns and then face an ork boy army?
RegulusBlack wrote:are there many more specific USR that are not in 5th edition that you might be able to point out?
20 attacks on the charge, if the tank moved, 1/3 misses, so about 3~ misses. That leaves 17 Dice that can be a 6. 3 of them, THE COMBAT KNIVES KILLED A TANK! GO TEAM!
1/3 of 20 is not 3
1/3 of 20 = 6-7 so approx 14 hits which equats to about 2 glances (still borked but what can you do?)
I did 1/6th mentally instead of 1/3.
Crap.
And yeah, I remembered Krak Grenades. 3 Misses, 3 glances. I was more amused by the thought of 10 Space Marines running in and glancing a tank to death. "Oh god, they scratched the armor 3 times with their knives, the tank can't take much mor---"
10 space marines beat up a car that you're in. What do you think happens?
Evil Lamp 6 wrote:Or SoB and Necrons, or SoB and Eldar. From C:WH, "The entire Eldar race are deviant witches."
Right.
You know the GK codex has Ordo Xenos inquisitors, right?
And you know what radical xenos inquisitors do, right?
I swear I'm fething sick of people complaining about GW breaking the fluff when they know nothing about the fluff or the rules themselves.
SoB aren't part of the GK. The Grey Knights and the Inquisition have their own entry on that list. Sisters are part of the Ecclesiarchy - the alien-hating church that tends to burn anything that doesn't conform to its standards of human purity.
This too. Feth, even allying with Tau is pushing it too far.
SoB aren't part of the GK. The Grey Knights and the Inquisition have their own entry on that list. Sisters are part of the Ecclesiarchy - the alien-hating church that tends to burn anything that doesn't conform to its standards of human purity.
Right.
Next thing we´ll know is redemptionist zealots helping out tau infantry. Nice fluff indeed.
RegulusBlack wrote:are there many more specific USR that are not in 5th edition that you might be able to point out?
20 attacks on the charge, if the tank moved, 1/3 misses, so about 3~ misses. That leaves 17 Dice that can be a 6. 3 of them, THE COMBAT KNIVES KILLED A TANK! GO TEAM!
1/3 of 20 is not 3
1/3 of 20 = 6-7 so approx 14 hits which equats to about 2 glances (still borked but what can you do?)
I did 1/6th mentally instead of 1/3.
Crap.
And yeah, I remembered Krak Grenades. 3 Misses, 3 glances. I was more amused by the thought of 10 Space Marines running in and glancing a tank to death. "Oh god, they scratched the armor 3 times with their knives, the tank can't take much mor---"
10 space marines beat up a car that you're in. What do you think happens?
Don't think a Vindicator or anything with a rear armor of 10 is quite the same as a Car.
Curious to see the. Mathhammer on Lychguard vs Terminators now that Hyperphase Swords are probably AP3. For more points than a terminator I would hope they would at least do as well.
Joey wrote:
The ability to do maths?
2D6 with one re-roll is not 7". I have no idea what it is, I'm not good enough at maths. I'd guess an extra couple of inches.
What's more important than the average charge distance, is how likely you are to make a charge at a given distance.
The reroll gives you >50% to make a charge up to 8" away. (Almost half the time, you can make charges 9" away with fleet). Without fleet, you are >50% at 7".
The math for difficult terrain (3d6 drop highest) is a tricker, so I simulated it with 100,000 trials. These are approximations.
Evil Lamp 6 wrote:This too. Feth, even allying with Tau is pushing it too far.
Eldar and Tau I could actually understand. Sorta. I think I could come up with some reason for it. Extreme circumstances and all. But 'crons? Eh.
They should've just opened up all alliances and let people sort it out for themselves. Either that, or come up with a chart that actually fits to the factions' fluff. I really don't see why 'nids are the only ones who are that limited.
And seeming all our close combat weapons that ignore armour are not listed as power weapons (just says ignores armour save) we can kill termies with our basic 'power sword' (hyperphase sword) while everyone else can't ah the joys of being a necron...
HPS are listed as power weapons in the codex, as are Rods of Covenant
they'll likely have the basic power weapon AP value of 3 in 6th ed
interestingly Staffs of Light are listed as shooting weapons and not CCWs with a profile, but i think i'm just missing something
however, Warscythes are plain old CCWs that deny armor saves of any kind. so there's that!
i remeber not too long ago when America's big bad guy was the Sovet Union, wouldn't have thought an alliance with them would have been foreseeable anytime in the present or the future.
RegulusBlack wrote:are there many more specific USR that are not in 5th edition that you might be able to point out?
20 attacks on the charge, if the tank moved, 1/3 misses, so about 3~ misses. That leaves 17 Dice that can be a 6. 3 of them, THE COMBAT KNIVES KILLED A TANK! GO TEAM!
1/3 of 20 is not 3
1/3 of 20 = 6-7 so approx 14 hits which equats to about 2 glances (still borked but what can you do?)
I did 1/6th mentally instead of 1/3.
Crap.
And yeah, I remembered Krak Grenades. 3 Misses, 3 glances. I was more amused by the thought of 10 Space Marines running in and glancing a tank to death. "Oh god, they scratched the armor 3 times with their knives, the tank can't take much mor---"
10 space marines beat up a car that you're in. What do you think happens?
Don't think a Vindicator or anything with a rear armor of 10 is quite the same as a Car.
No, that's what front armour is for. Back armour is deliberately weak, hence AV10. That's still much stronger than a conventional car, but you get my point.
10 of these guys:
Bashing away at an armour plate with their boltguns/fists.
I don't find it bizarre at all.
Curious to see the. Mathhammer on Lychguard vs Terminators now that Hyperphase Swords are probably AP3. For more points than a terminator I would hope they would at least do as well.
I sure hope they get nerfed to AP3, with all the other buffs necrons get that´s just fair.
RegulusBlack wrote:i remeber not too long ago when America's big bad guy was the Sovet Union, wouldn't have thought an alliance with them would have been foreseeable anytime in the present or the future.
funny how things change....
Pssst, the Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore.
You probably mean Russia, but I'm not aware they are in any alliance with the US either. In fact ...
Maige wrote:Mr Morden: thats not a change in fluff - thats acknowledging and following the fluff.
Then what the hell is Necrons + GK supposed to represent?
A cheesy Matt Ward wet dream?
Necrons and GK already have an interaction, since it's heavily hinted that the Necrons gave the GK their Tesseract Labyrinth things.
I thought it was that Inquisitor Valeria (?) was sent one as a gift afer she tried to raid a Necron world? I can see however that the Necrons would be in favour of disrupting the influence of Chaos in the material world and so might attack daemonic incursions at the same time as Gk's did and ignore them as a secondary target
Basically Valeria invaded Trazyn's halls, big fight ensued. She escaped and he captured a bunch of her men and sent her the Tesserach Labyrinth as a f-you with a side of lulztrollface. Essentially he was sending it as a trap for her, but if she was smart enough to escape it's clutches (she obviously was), she could consider it a "gift" (basically showing how little of a threat he thinks her to be.) Someone in the GW office must have read that and not gotten the joke and though "Oh, they must be best buds!"
That's my take on the whole situation anyway.
It kind of makes my want to make a tiny little trollface mask to put on Trazyn now. like a cheap halloween mask
Actually she contacted him after fighting her way free of his halls saying that one of his dioramas was in correct and offered to send him some dudes to make it accurate. He was grateful and sent her a prize that would also be a trap.
I am looking forward to this edition more and more, and honestly I cant see people playing many of these combos that people worry about. Also with these changes for 6th edition I see a lot of things in the G knights book are balanced out a bit(things like halberds). The solar pulse for the necrons(and imotek) are much more balanced out I think. People complain about the randomness added to the game but at the same time I feel like they have removed a good portion of it as well and made things very reliable(with things like premeasuring)
I'd recommend re-reading that particular bit of fluff, because that's definitely not what happened. The entire thing is from the point of view of Trazyn, who is obviously being intentionally naive about the fact that Valeria send an army to his place to find something.
Thank you. So at best, fleet gives me an average 2 extra inches on the charge, compared to non-fleet units... But still allows non-fleet units to make an assault move of up to 12", same as me. No seriously, fleet is not useless at all.
Curious to see the. Mathhammer on Lychguard vs Terminators now that Hyperphase Swords are probably AP3. For more points than a terminator I would hope they would at least do as well.
I sure hope they get nerfed to AP3, with all the other buffs necrons get that´s just fair.
Why nerf an already crap unit? It's not like anybody takes the damn things.
1. Rending: AP2/auto-wound only on to-wound rolls of a 6, correct?
2. Poison: Still reroll for S equal/over T? If high S would wound on a lower roll, can you use the value instead (mainly to see if 'poison MCs' would be worth it now).
3. Move Through Cover: Still the same as 5th edition?
RegulusBlack wrote:i remeber not too long ago when America's big bad guy was the Sovet Union, wouldn't have thought an alliance with them would have been foreseeable anytime in the present or the future.
funny how things change....
Except that it's built into Imperial and especially Space Marine fluff that they hate and should exterminate all Xenos. Perhaps if children of the USA were instructed from birth that all Russians were inferior beings deserving only of mass genocide would your analogy make sense.
i know and as much as i like the idea of allies i still think they are broken. (why not nids is the main reason)
however if GW says the emps dead and chaos rules the universe, i either accept it or i dont.
ranting on a non GW site about fluff I have no control over, with people that cant do anything about it, seems like a wasted effort (similar to typing this)
I think members need to stand on their soapbox just to vent a little, can understand, but in the end the decisions already made not much you can do about it now.
N.I.B. wrote:I would like to know if the "Hammer of wrath" is affected by charging through terrain, going down to I1?
That will be debated. I would say no, but I have been wrong before. It says under a "models attacks are reduced to I1. but i consider the hammer of wrath more of a body slam of an incoming MC or jump pack troop
This one's been bugging me for days: Rage - is it +2 attacks IN ADDITION TO the normal bonus attack from charging, so the unit will in effect get +3 attacks on the charge?
It gains +2 rather than +1, not plus 3 sorry
If you can be arsed, an explanation of how disembarking from Wrecked/Exploded vehicles works, plus what happens to the crew when the vehicle was destroyed in close combat - can the assulting unit lock in close combat with the disembarking unit, if the assaulters cover the disembarking points?
Any changes to Emergency Disembark, can the unit inside the transport still be destroyed if the vehicle is surrounded by enemies?
if wrecked do an emergency disembarkation with 3' range, not 6. any models that cannot be place touching the hull are destroyed and they must make a pinning test, exploded tanks models are placed where tank was, those that cannot be placed are destroyed
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Curious to see the. Mathhammer on Lychguard vs Terminators now that Hyperphase Swords are probably AP3. For more points than a terminator I would hope they would at least do as well.
Here's hoping they get something so that they aren't Ap 3, or maybe the get a strength bonus. Nerfing an already crap unit will be rough.
At least Monoliths and their Flyers got a buff, so the vehicles you may use to get them into combat become better. Still, Lychguard are a tough sell from a purely competitive standpoint.
Q: What's the kill point or victory point system for destroying enemy units? How is the destroyed unit's worth determined? An equal amount of points for every unit or is it based on the army points cost? Any points for units under half strength or only for destroying them completely?
RegulusBlack wrote:i remeber not too long ago when America's big bad guy was the Sovet Union, wouldn't have thought an alliance with them would have been foreseeable anytime in the present or the future.
funny how things change....
Except that it's built into Imperial and especially Space Marine fluff that they hate and should exterminate all Xenos. Perhaps if children of the USA were instructed from birth that all Russians were inferior beings deserving only of mass genocide would your analogy make sense.
But alas, it does not.
Is it? I thought the Imperium was a hugely decentralised structure where each world has its own rules and customs?
Distrust and fear xenos is not the same as distrusting and hating demons/chaos.
RegulusBlack wrote:
ranting on a non GW site about fluff I have no control over, with people that cant do anything about it, seems like a wasted effort (similar to typing this)
I think members need to stand on their soapbox just to vent a little, can understand, but in the end the decisions already made not much you can do about it now.
I think all of us realize this. Must be a human thing - we all feel better for voicing disappointment and seeing that we are not alone in these thoughts. Happens all the time. Be lucky this is unlikely to turn into an embarassing digital perpetuum mobile like the ME3 rage.
Give it a few days or weeks and people will calm down. The topic will still come up, like just about anything people like to rant about, but talking about stuff like this is part of the hobby. And in the end, it's not that unlikely that community perception is, in one way or another, reaching the studio by word of mouth. Not that I think this would change anything, though - I'm not that much of an optimist.
Except that it's built into Imperial and especially Space Marine fluff that they hate and should exterminate all Xenos. Perhaps if children of the USA were instructed from birth that all Russians were inferior beings deserving only of mass genocide would your analogy make sense.
But alas, it does not.
ok i'll bite,
so an entity that believes all races are inferior and stands to exterminate them, is the consensus of ALL individuals within said entity, meaning that there is no additional thought process allowed for paradigm shifts (thinking outside the box).
what one person says (Emperor) mandates that all gabillion 40k imperium worlds means they ALL act that same way. you couldn't possibly have for instance someone in a position of power say we dont buy this therefore we are going to do it our way.
so there would in effect be no traitors, no civil wars, no protest, as ALL citizens and soldiers act and react the same way.
Ovion wrote:Rattman can you please confirm if this:
Spoiler:
is accurate or not?
And / or post a pic of the FoC page if you can?
Thanks in advance.
Ignore this post!
But... why? It's basically the only damn question I have! ><
I think it was the post the chart picture part. No I wont
That is NOT the chart in the book
Actually let me retract that, its not the chart in book, but it is accurate. That one is way more complicated than the one in the book
I know it's not the chart in the book, being I made it while bored. I'm happy enough for the confirmation, the picture would have been icing on the cake, but still, that it's accurate is great.
So fleet really is just a strait up charge re-roll? So everyone then either gets a d6 inch run or an assault and not both? That's pretty weak...well let me rephrase, as eldar being weak old fleet gives us the charge we need to cause any kind of damage. Maybe they assumed you'd want to shoot your pistols back at them instead as you take over watch shots. I'm not too worried about it. I'm really hoping that eldar get at least a little more punch in cc, but as they are a synergy/midranged torrent of fire, i'm not counting on it. It all just depends on what kind of psychic/synergy combos you can come up with. Not wanting to drag this forum back into allies, but maybe they figure to balance the game just make it so everybody can take "OP" units if it's bothering them. This doesn't quench my desire to try and build lists that are efficient from my own dex and I hate the thought of being even more lame in assault. Who knows maybe I will finally have to get Harlis and hope the veil of tiers can negate a little bit of the new lack-luster fleet. Despite the aforementioned I'm excited to crack that book open and throw some dice to see how this all pans out.
Curious to see the. Mathhammer on Lychguard vs Terminators now that Hyperphase Swords are probably AP3. For more points than a terminator I would hope they would at least do as well.
I sure hope they get nerfed to AP3, with all the other buffs necrons get that´s just fair.
That's not how good balancing works - having one unit buffed a lot (Warriors) and another one drastically nerfed isn't good balance. I don't get it anyway. There were overpriced in 5th and now, in 6th, they get even WORSE? Sometimes...well, that seems to be the case for a few other issues as well. Phaeron is made useless now, CCBs *could* go from insanely good to rather bad unless FAQ'd...hmmm.
Swear to god, the entire Lych-/Pret box was only designed to build your court.
I can't really picture a Necron army that mainly consists of flyers...
I know it's not the chart in the book, being I made it while bored. I'm happy enough for the confirmation, the picture would have been icing on the cake, but still, that it's accurate is great.
get rid of the greater than 2000 point part of the chart, the rule books no make reference to any differance between over or under 2000 for you FOC
Maige wrote:Mr Morden: thats not a change in fluff - thats acknowledging and following the fluff.
Then what the hell is Necrons + GK supposed to represent?
A cheesy Matt Ward wet dream?
Necrons and GK already have an interaction, since it's heavily hinted that the Necrons gave the GK their Tesseract Labyrinth things.
I thought it was that Inquisitor Valeria (?) was sent one as a gift afer she tried to raid a Necron world? I can see however that the Necrons would be in favour of disrupting the influence of Chaos in the material world and so might attack daemonic incursions at the same time as Gk's did and ignore them as a secondary target
Basically Valeria invaded Trazyn's halls, big fight ensued. She escaped and he captured a bunch of her men and sent her the Tesserach Labyrinth as a f-you with a side of lulztrollface. Essentially he was sending it as a trap for her, but if she was smart enough to escape it's clutches (she obviously was), she could consider it a "gift" (basically showing how little of a threat he thinks her to be.) Someone in the GW office must have read that and not gotten the joke and though "Oh, they must be best buds!"
That's my take on the whole situation anyway.
It kind of makes my want to make a tiny little trollface mask to put on Trazyn now. like a cheap halloween mask
Actually she contacted him after fighting her way free of his halls saying that one of his dioramas was in correct and offered to send him some dudes to make it accurate. He was grateful and sent her a prize that would also be a trap.
I guess considering her background info, you could draw that conclusion, but no, he's being a smartass and reveling in his defeating her in a very sarcastic and slightly deranged way (put him in the shoes of a classic James Bond villan and it makes perfect sense). She wasn't offering five Catachan regiments as a gift. She sent the five regiments to try and take the halls where her small raid had been driven off. He makes the difference clear when he talks about them not understanding their instructions and having to be forcibly restrained.
My god, i just read all 124 pages and still no confirmation on how deepstricking works in 6th. Rattman, please tell us how deep stricking works? Deepstricking has to have changed otherwise the deepstricking shinanigans in the necron codex have no point!
rattman wrote:ok some pm'ed questions
variable mission length is still in, 5-7 turns
3 deployment type, lengthwise, width wise and diagonal (apoc stule)
fortification. basically planetstrike so aegis line, skysheild, bastion and fortress of redemption
Rattman- has target selection changed during shooting? i.e. unit A must target unit B before unit C. Closest enenmy unit type and so forth? Or is it the same as 5th?
Thank you. So at best, fleet gives me an average 2 extra inches on the charge, compared to non-fleet units... But still allows non-fleet units to make an assault move of up to 12", same as me. No seriously, fleet is not useless at all.
Some math magic:
Expected charge distance w/ 2d6: 7.00"
Expected charge distance* w/ 2d6 reroll: 8.37"
Maige wrote:Mr Morden: thats not a change in fluff - thats acknowledging and following the fluff.
Then what the hell is Necrons + GK supposed to represent?
A cheesy Matt Ward wet dream?
Necrons and GK already have an interaction, since it's heavily hinted that the Necrons gave the GK their Tesseract Labyrinth things.
I thought it was that Inquisitor Valeria (?) was sent one as a gift afer she tried to raid a Necron world? I can see however that the Necrons would be in favour of disrupting the influence of Chaos in the material world and so might attack daemonic incursions at the same time as Gk's did and ignore them as a secondary target
Basically Valeria invaded Trazyn's halls, big fight ensued. She escaped and he captured a bunch of her men and sent her the Tesserach Labyrinth as a f-you with a side of lulztrollface. Essentially he was sending it as a trap for her, but if she was smart enough to escape it's clutches (she obviously was), she could consider it a "gift" (basically showing how little of a threat he thinks her to be.) Someone in the GW office must have read that and not gotten the joke and though "Oh, they must be best buds!"
That's my take on the whole situation anyway.
It kind of makes my want to make a tiny little trollface mask to put on Trazyn now. like a cheap halloween mask
Actually she contacted him after fighting her way free of his halls saying that one of his dioramas was in correct and offered to send him some dudes to make it accurate. He was grateful and sent her a prize that would also be a trap.
I guess considering her background info, you could draw that conclusion, but no, he's being a smartass and reveling in his defeating her in a very sarcastic and slightly deranged way (put him in the shoes of a classic James Bond villan and it makes perfect sense). She wasn't offering five Catachan regiments as a gift. She sent the five regiments to try and take the halls where her small raid had been driven off. He makes the difference clear when he talks about them not understanding their instructions and having to be forcibly restrained.
Actually, I interpreted their "willingness" to work together as a result of their mutual hatred for demons; Necrons like demons as much as the GK, and would be willing to remove them from the material plane.
Pyriel- wrote:Fun, GK termies got royally screwed. Now the only thing that will ever matter are hammers.
Who knows what the FAQ will say. The halberds might still be classified as unusual force weapons. It would be a fairly ridiculous if a force weapon that granted bonus initiative suddenly started hitting slow as a truck like a power fist.
Necronic Angel wrote:My god, i just read all 124 pages and still no confirmation on how deepstricking works in 6th. Rattman, please tell us how deep stricking works? Deepstricking has to have changed otherwise the deepstricking shinanigans in the necron codex have no point!
No difference that I could see, the deepstrike table seems less brutal but dont have a 5th to compare it to 1 - lost 2-3 msplaced 4-6 delayed.
I know it's not the chart in the book, being I made it while bored. I'm happy enough for the confirmation, the picture would have been icing on the cake, but still, that it's accurate is great.
get rid of the greater than 2000 point part of the chart, the rule books no make reference to any differance between over or under 2000 for you FOC
could you clarify this please? Are you saying there is no double FOC over 2000 or under 2000, or are you saying that its doubled below 2000 and above 2000?
[quote=Therion
Who knows what the FAQ will say. The halberds might still be classified as unusual force weapons. It would be a fairly ridiculous if a force weapon that granted bonus initiative suddenly started hitting slow as a truck like a power fist.
I would put money down that they will be exactly the same as now with ap3
Hearing from a friend that allies are only unlocked at games > (=> ?) 2000 points.
Something to check for those with the book so the OMG ALLIES part of this thread can quiet a bit.
could you clarify this please? Are you saying there is no double FOC over 2000 or under 2000, or are you saying that its doubled below 2000 and above 2000?
Necronic Angel wrote:My god, i just read all 124 pages and still no confirmation on how deepstricking works in 6th. Rattman, please tell us how deep stricking works? Deepstricking has to have changed otherwise the deepstricking shinanigans in the necron codex have no point!
No difference that I could see, the deepstrike table seems less brutal but dont have a 5th to compare it to 1 - lost 2-3 msplaced 4-6 delayed.
Awesome, so bloodswarm nanoscarabs and ethreal interception still serve absolutley no purpose what so ever.
Actually, I interpreted their "willingness" to work together as a result of their mutual hatred for demons; Necrons like demons as much as the GK, and would be willing to remove them from the material plane.
The first problem with that is Trazy could care less about fighting demons. He wants toys, artifacts, goodies, rare ninja turtle collectables, etc. All his actions are based around the aquisition of said items, or the protection of them.
The second problem is he trusts no one, not even other necrons. He sure as hell isn't going to trust an Ordos Xenos inquisitor who kicked his front door down to try and make off with some of his "precioussess" and then proceeded to kill a few of his surogates.
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Hearing from a friend that allies are only unlocked at games > (=> ?) 2000 points.
Something to check for those with the book so the OMG ALLIES part of this thread can quiet a bit.
no mention of points they are part of the standard chart.
My local group have decided that you will be restricted to allies as a %, still debating atm the actual percent either 12 or 25% are front runners
Actually, I interpreted their "willingness" to work together as a result of their mutual hatred for demons; Necrons like demons as much as the GK, and would be willing to remove them from the material plane.
The first problem with that is Trazy could care less about fighting demons. He wants toys, artifacts, goodies, rare ninja turtle collectables, etc. All his actions are based around the aquisition of said items, or the protection of them.
The second problem is he trusts no one, not even other necrons. He sure as hell isn't going to trust an Ordos Xenos inquisitor who kicked his front door down to try and make off with some of his "precioussess" and then proceeded to kill a few of his surogates.
I was referring to the Necrons as a whole teaming up with GK. I'm sorry, I should have been more specific in my post That, and I was too lazy to trim the post.
And yeah, Trazyn doesn't trust anyone. He's too afraid they might nab his collection.
rattman wrote:
I would put money down that they will be exactly the same as now with ap3
I agree.
I think you missed my question on the previous page. If you don't mind:
Q: What's the kill point or victory point system for destroying enemy units? How is the destroyed unit's worth determined? An equal amount of points for every unit or is it based on the army points cost? Any points for units under half strength or only for destroying them completely?
So question. Anyone else just want it for the fluff?
And not exactly the game? I mean that is my piece of cake. Fluff I love. Hopefully I can find some of the new lore at Lexi.
Asherian Command wrote:So question. Anyone else just want it for the fluff?
And not exactly the game? I mean that is my piece of cake. Fluff I love. Hopefully I can find some of the new lore at Lexi.
Both.
It is more interesting to tell a story with a solid system that everyone understands.
rattman wrote:
I would put money down that they will be exactly the same as now with ap3
I agree.
I think you missed my question on the previous page. If you don't mind:
Q: What's the kill point or victory point system for destroying enemy units? How is the destroyed unit's worth determined? An equal amount of points for every unit or is it based on the army points cost? Any points for units under half strength or only for destroying them completely?
(from memory atm)
theres primary and secondry objectives
Primary are capture objectives or destroy units. mission dependant you get 1 or 2 points for destroying units (no percentages, yeah annoys me to I play a razor spam SW army)
secondry are kill the warlord +1 vp, first blood if you destroy a enamy unit first you get a 1 vp. line breaker 1vp if you have a unit in enamy deployment zone
Asherian Command wrote:So question. Anyone else just want it for the fluff?
And not exactly the game? I mean that is my piece of cake. Fluff I love. Hopefully I can find some of the new lore at Lexi.
Depends. I'm mainly getting it for the fluff right now, as I my current work times aren't exactly in line with the players I know, and I still feel horribly nerfed by the WD minidex. If the rules are interesting it could serve as an incentive for me, though.
Due to its habit of "unifying" even conflicting fluff as well as incorporating a lot of personal interpretation in the articles, I regard Lexicanum as an unreliable source and prefer to get my hands on the actual books to see how it's truly written. The wiki is a good place to start one's research, though - especially if you understand German (as, most interestingly, the German version of Lexicanum contains a lot more info ... first time I see that in a wiki).
Just an outlook on what I can put into the first post:
1.) Real life will keep me from updating the first post for about 20 hours.
2.) With more and more people making Q&A sessions for every detail of the rulebook, copying all that info into a news&rumour makes less and less sense. Because it rivals the length of the rulebook itself (making it less and less readable) and because it is not the duty of a rumour discussion forum to copy all contents of a new product.
So from now on, expect updates of the first post only for very important additions.
Could you do me a favor? My friends and I have been wondering if there has been any changes to certain Tau Weapons. Can you check the master list and tell me what the profiles of Pule Rifles, Pulse Carbine, Missile Pods are? Also is there a special rule for Railguns now being able to fire in lines like from pancake edition?
Primary are capture objectives or destroy units. mission dependant you get 1 or 2 points for destroying units (no percentages, yeah annoys me to I play a razor spam SW army)
secondry are kill the warlord +1 vp, first blood if you destroy a enamy unit first you get a 1 vp. line breaker 1vp if you have a unit in enamy deployment zone
destroyed is falling back or not on the table
Thanks. So basically the old 'kill points' are still in, but on the other hand MSU armies get a lot of points if they manage to get all their cheap stuff in the enemy deployment zone. Do Razorbacks (you mentioned your Razorbacks) and other vehicles count as a unit for the line breaker 1vp? That's something that helps fast armies a lot either way.
Asherian Command wrote:So question. Anyone else just want it for the fluff?
And not exactly the game? I mean that is my piece of cake. Fluff I love. Hopefully I can find some of the new lore at Lexi.
Both.
It is more interesting to tell a story with a solid system that everyone understands.
Eh. I usually just pit a 500 point army against another 500 point army and use that as a basis to write my fluff :/
Primary are capture objectives or destroy units. mission dependant you get 1 or 2 points for destroying units (no percentages, yeah annoys me to I play a razor spam SW army)
secondry are kill the warlord +1 vp, first blood if you destroy a enamy unit first you get a 1 vp. line breaker 1vp if you have a unit in enamy deployment zone
destroyed is falling back or not on the table
Thanks. So basically the old 'kill points' are still in, but on the other hand MSU armies get a lot of points if they manage to get all their cheap stuff in the enemy deployment zone. Do Razorbacks (you mentioned your Razorbacks) and other vehicles count as a unit for the line breaker 1vp? That's something that helps fast armies a lot either way.
you can get 1vp max. it says scoring or scoring denial unit( going to check that)
scoring denial
vehicle
swarms
failing back
plus one that makes no sense possibly a typo " plus one that specifies it never counts as a denial (scoring possibly) unit"
Sigvatr wrote:I can't really picture a Necron army that mainly consists of flyers...
Having run one a few times under pancake edition (in which they were signifigantly harder to use than what we are seeing here), it's a thing of beauty
No doubt that it does (despite being RIDICOLOUSLY expensive!), but when I think of Necrons, I just can't see an army of flyers :(
Really it's not that much more expensive than your average army of the same points...and the oldcrons used to mainly be fast, hard hitting raiding forces.
Could you shed some light on the close combat challenge rule? Is it only IC?
Can sarge upgrades be challenged or issue challenge?
What happen if you deny a challenge?
What happen if you win the challenge?
rattman, how do blast weapons work?
Also any chance of a confirmation on rapid fire? Is it the same as 5th or is it 2 shots @24" if stationary, 1@24" and 2@12" if moving?
Who knows what the FAQ will say. The halberds might still be classified as unusual force weapons. It would be a fairly ridiculous if a force weapon that granted bonus initiative suddenly started hitting slow as a truck like a power fist.
That would in fact be way better, at least then GK terminators might stand a chance against other terminators.
Oh I got banned from BLOS for correcting someone who was wrong saying you cant have IC in your allies, rule book places no restrictions on allies
Crap happens. I got booed and laughed at over at heresy online for daring to claim the upcoming GK will change the meta game right before their release. Bunch of self righteous spankers.
That´s what I like about dakka, people arent so full of themselves here.
Maelstrom808 wrote:He's said like 3x now that it says 1 @ 24" and 2 at 12" with no mention of it being any different if you move or not, other than some fluff.
Fair enough, foot guard is a hassle anyway Somewhat related, is shooting from an embarked vehicle any different? I play mech guard, so it's a pretty big deal.
The photographed page where the new weapon stats were shown ends talking about power klaws, and makes them sound different than fists. Clarification there?
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:The photographed page where the new weapon stats were shown ends talking about power klaws, and makes them sound different than fists. Clarification there?
Absolutely. And I would like to know if they finally gave an AP value to the deff rolla. It seems to me that being run over by a spiked metal cylinder being pushed in front of a tank shouldn't allow every armor save in the game.
Just throwing it out there: perhaps someone should compile the rules into some sort of structured summary instead of massive spoiler lists on who said what.
Then we can focus on knocking out redundancy and getting confirmation on contentious rules etc.
Maige wrote:Just throwing it out there: perhaps someone should compile the rules into some sort of structured summary instead of massive spoiler lists on who said what.
Then we can focus on knocking out redundancy and getting confirmation on contentious rules etc.
The problem with that, especially now that some have the book, is that it starts to tread into "copying the rule book" territory. I suspect.
Leth wrote:... excited about artillery being turned into two wounds at T7. Been wanting a thunderfire for awhile, now I can justify it.
Had not heard that one yet. Just finished building two and was going to paint them and well...just sit them on the shelf looking cool, but now... So will it be two wounds on the cannon then the Techmarine is IC? 3 wounds for the unit? With bolstered defenses, could be survivable and 4 shots, a couple of glances on vehicle targets, two TFCs at 60" range in the scenario where you play the long way, well it is worth a try.
Leth wrote:... excited about artillery being turned into two wounds at T7. Been wanting a thunderfire for awhile, now I can justify it.
Had not heard that one yet. Just finished building two and was going to paint them and well...just sit them on the shelf looking cool, but now... So will it be two wounds on the cannon then the Techmarine is IC? 3 wounds for the unit? With bolstered defenses, could be survivable and 4 shots, a couple of glances on vehicle targets, two TFCs at 60" range in the scenario where you play the long way, well it is worth a try.
Yep I remember reading that in the other thread at one point, if the crew is killed it ceases to function. However that will not occur if you just make the thunderfire the closer target. Also be interesting to see how majority toughness works. I heard someone say that techmarines(and other people with repair) can restore hull points. Can anyone with a book confirm these things for me? Dont want to get too many peoples hopes up.
Well, for the most part, I'm impressed and eager to dig into the book (and a game!). Disappointed though, that I can't ally my tyranids even with other tyranids. I can imagine a lot of 3 HQ-4 Heavy armies being played now, and suspect I may be at a bit of a disadvantage.
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:
The problem with that, especially now that some have the book, is that it starts to tread into "copying the rule book" territory. I suspect.
Hmmm where do we draw the line though? Is what we're doing now any better? I mean we already have actual page scans and badly organized direct quotes.
I don't see the harm in having a basic paraphrased summary, which would basically just clear up everything so far.
Ribber wrote:Well, for the most part, I'm impressed and eager to dig into the book (and a game!). Disappointed though, that I can't ally my tyranids even with other tyranids. I can imagine a lot of 3 HQ-4 Heavy armies being played now, and suspect I may be at a bit of a disadvantage.
Unfortunately I fear you may be.
Fortunately, Hive Guard and Genestealers are still really, really good.
Lol i love the fact 6 sky claws can reliably kill 1 tank per assault phase, with out any sort of gear (5 attacks per pup = 30 = 3.33 glancing against av10)
Gunner: Sir 6 raging lone dudes with clubs are coming straight at us!!!!!!
Giant tank commander: Oh my god retreat, our several tons of armor cant repel clubs of this magnitude!!!!!!
GO paper tank edition!!!!!. Lol im does anybody expect this edition NOT to become the gun line edition?, and i had such high hopes for the edition...
Any body else thinks that the only real fix for this edition is a rather severe point cost reduction to vehicles across the board?, be it via faq or what ever?.
xxvaderxx wrote:Any body else thinks that the only real fix for this edition is a rather severe point cost reduction to vehicles across the board?, be it via faq or what ever?.
Nah. I think vehicles will still be quite useful. They just won't be -the- correct choice like in 5E.
Unless you're playing against Necrons, in which case may The Emperor have mercy on your soul.
(not that I'd mind my Night/Doom Scythes costing less...)
Didn't know that. How extensive was it? Altering vehicle costs in every codex is a fair task, there will be a bit of a slippery slope too because it's not just vehicles which have degraded.
For example I will be furious if they leave Agonizers and Husk Blades at the price they are unless they are confirmed AP2.
xxvaderxx wrote:Lol i love the fact 6 sky claws can reliably kill 1 tank per assault phase, with out any sort of gear (5 attacks per pup = 30 = 3.33 glancing against av10)
Gunner: Sir 6 raging lone dudes with clubs are coming straight at us!!!!!!
Giant tank commander: Oh my god retreat, our several tons of armor cant repel clubs of this magnitude!!!!!!
GO paper tank edition!!!!!. Lol im does anybody expect this edition NOT to become the gun line edition?, and i had such high hopes for the edition...
This what angers me most about how 6th edition supposedly works. I rather play games of 5th and have my Mech army get tabled by another Mech army because at least that makes sense.
When I'm riding my mighty Land raider into battle I shouldn't have to worry about some primitive blowing it up with a rock.
Well, if I understand the rumors correctly and barring a flyer--you will hit a vehicle at least on a 3+----Scarabs got even better.
8 Scarabs attacking a vehicle that moved 12"
40 attacks, 26ish hits, 13ish Entropics. Hell, they'll destroy it before even rolling armor penetration.
I noticed they defined passengers are emergency disembarking "wholly within 3" as well--which will make for more challenging placement after they eat a vehicle.
Although, I am happy that vehicles are easier to hit after they move. Nothing was more yawntastic then playing rhino wall wars.
Most gun boats are still pretty durable, outside of melta AV13 is still pretty strong, still need strength 7 to even try and hurt it. The hit to glancing means that they will require more focused fire to take them down instead of the glance and forget effect we had this edition. I can see my predators making it back onto the table now. Also the fact they can fire after moving 12 is still very nice. Twin-linked lascannon might be worth its points again.
If vehicles get to snap fire non blasts against charging troops then vehicles are going to be just fine in my opinion.
Most of the transports were too cheap in this edition and these rules I believe are quite accurate for the points.
I kind of feel like with the grey knights that they gave them some things that felt overpowered for a year but seem pretty balanced out once the next edition came out.
xxvaderxx wrote:Lol i love the fact 6 sky claws can reliably kill 1 tank per assault phase, with out any sort of gear (5 attacks per pup = 30 = 3.33 glancing against av10)
Gunner: Sir 6 raging lone dudes with clubs are coming straight at us!!!!!!
Giant tank commander: Oh my god retreat, our several tons of armor cant repel clubs of this magnitude!!!!!!
GO paper tank edition!!!!!. Lol im does anybody expect this edition NOT to become the gun line edition?, and i had such high hopes for the edition...
This what angers me most about how 6th edition supposedly works. I rather play games of 5th and have my Meq army get tabled by another Meq army because at least that makes sense.
When I'm riding my mighty Land raider into battle I shouldn't have to worry about some primitive blowing it up with a rock.
I am guessing a little sooner as we can just see the australian ones on the 29th(in the usa)
My bet is on that friday for a simultaneous international release. Might even be sooner so people will have a chance to print them off and bring them to events leading up to the 30th
i can see agonisers as ap2 but not husk blades for some reason, nothing to back this up i just got a feeling it may happen.
The DA/BT update was MASSIVE, it essentialy made 2 almost un-usable armies playable again, giving DW 2 shoy cycs meant that they had a decent long range threat again as oposed to the terribad old cyc, storm sheilds meant we had a 3++ to shooting rather than a 4++ in combat only (vs 1 model in b2b i might add) it buffed ravenwing landspeeders too, also letting the DW apoth have FNP: (for unit) rather than the old "ignore the fist failed save" one, updating our land raiders too... blimy i could go on but suffice to say it was almost a new codex via an FAQ/Errata
Actually, I interpreted their "willingness" to work together as a result of their mutual hatred for demons; Necrons like demons as much as the GK, and would be willing to remove them from the material plane.
The first problem with that is Trazy could care less about fighting demons. He wants toys, artifacts, goodies, rare ninja turtle collectables, etc. All his actions are based around the aquisition of said items, or the protection of them.
The second problem is he trusts no one, not even other necrons. He sure as hell isn't going to trust an Ordos Xenos inquisitor who kicked his front door down to try and make off with some of his "precioussess" and then proceeded to kill a few of his surogates.
I was referring to the Necrons as a whole teaming up with GK. I'm sorry, I should have been more specific in my post That, and I was too lazy to trim the post.
And yeah, Trazyn doesn't trust anyone. He's too afraid they might nab his collection.
If you read the part about the Labyrinths in the GK codex it says basically they got these from a race they are no longer on good terms with. I took that as an interpretation that there was a time where they traded as GK got lots of good bits from various races when they needed super super wargear.
MPJ wrote:One way that could possibly work to still make assault DE worthwhile is to ignore the fluff and play...defensively
Keep your assault units in raiders with disintegrator cannons as long as possible and as far back as possible and preferably in cover and shoot the MEQ and TEQ a turn or two to reduce the squads so that when you inevitably charge them with your assault units, you'll suffer less overwatch fire or maybe some squads will be dead and you can focuse two of yours on one of theirs, sparing an entire squad from being shot at
Of course, this is far from fool proof and it is rather boring and possibly even douchey, but what choice else do we have?
You mean they finally changed the game from "Fearless assault units try to get into hand to hand in one or two turns so they can slaughter the other guy's shooters." style it's been 3rd edition?
Softening units with shooting and then charging in to mop up is what SHOULD happen. The "all shooting" and "all assault" army styles are moronic.
xxvaderxx wrote:Lol i love the fact 6 sky claws can reliably kill 1 tank per assault phase, with out any sort of gear (5 attacks per pup = 30 = 3.33 glancing against av10)
Gunner: Sir 6 raging lone dudes with clubs are coming straight at us!!!!!! Giant tank commander: Oh my god retreat, our several tons of armor cant repel clubs of this magnitude!!!!!!
GO paper tank edition!!!!!. Lol im does anybody expect this edition NOT to become the gun line edition?, and i had such high hopes for the edition...
This what angers me most about how 6th edition supposedly works. I rather play games of 5th and have my Meq army get tabled by another Meq army because at least that makes sense.
When I'm riding my mighty Land raider into battle I shouldn't have to worry about some primitive blowing it up with a rock.
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:So Night Shields are pretty much a moot upgrade now...only help against Impaler Cannons or if standing still.
why does everyone keep saying this????
-6" range is awsome if you want to sit back and snipe at stuff, that pesky las pred is 48 away... ok, so i can now pre-measure and make sure it is out of range of me for at least a turn, i would love to take that on my DAlol
Rattman- has target selection changed during shooting? i.e. unit A must target unit B before unit C. Closest enenmy unit type and so forth? Or is it the same as 5th?
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:So Night Shields are pretty much a moot upgrade now...only help against Impaler Cannons or if standing still.
why does everyone keep saying this????
-6" range is awsome if you want to sit back and snipe at stuff, that pesky las pred is 48 away... ok, so i can now pre-measure and make sure it is out of range of me for at least a turn, i would love to take that on my DAlol
Think they mean Flickerfields, which honestly, they pretty much are if you get a base 5+ coversave... invuns only help against flamers and assault!
But they're worth almost twice as much, closest thing we'll get to a FW and they look really cool.....
But yeah to be honest I hope you're right about the first one, Agonizers are MUCH more vital to DE than any other CCW, I only really use the Huskblade in the somewhat novelty Soultrap build. I can live without it. Agonizers I cannot.
>almost a new codex via an FAQ/Errata
Well I hope they've got their keyboards ready for this one. It really shouldn't be that hard just to fix the glaring problems.
But I'm not getting my hopes up....
Maige wrote:>Formosa
>agonisers as ap2 but not husk blades
But they're worth almost twice as much, closest thing we'll get to a FW and they look really cool.....
But yeah to be honest I hope you're right about the first one, Agonizers are MUCH more vital to DE than any other CCW, I only really use the Huskblade in the somewhat novelty Soultrap build. I can live without it. Agonizers I cannot.
>almost a new codex via an FAQ/Errata
Well I hope they've got their keyboards ready for this one. It really shouldn't be that hard just to fix the glaring problems.
But I'm not getting my hopes up....
give em a chance, they retrofixed Nid's FAQ didn't they?
I'm sure questions 2 and 3 will likely only be answered with FAQ updates but I'll ask anyway:
1. I haven't seen positive confirmation that MCs lose 2D6 armor pen on normal hits, is that true? (I've read most of this thread but may have missed a page or two)
1a. If you use the Smash option to halve your attacks and double your strength, are you still limited to max strength value of 10?
2. If you take Daemons as an Ally choice, does that affect how they deploy? Will you still have to split your force and roll for preferred wave?
3. What I'm really eager to find out is if they'll FAQ the icons in the CSM codex to allow Chaos Daemons to use them.
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:So Night Shields are pretty much a moot upgrade now...only help against Impaler Cannons or if standing still.
why does everyone keep saying this????
-6" range is awsome if you want to sit back and snipe at stuff, that pesky las pred is 48 away... ok, so i can now pre-measure and make sure it is out of range of me for at least a turn, i would love to take that on my DAlol
Think they mean Flickerfields, which honestly, they pretty much are if you get a base 5+ coversave... invuns only help against flamers and assault!
undertow
3. What I'm really eager to find out is if they'll FAQ the icons in the CSM codex to allow Chaos Daemons to use them.
I have a similar interest in regards to casting Fortune on Dark Eldar, they'll really need to sort that one out because of rule lawyers who will say that the term 'Eldar' applies to Dark Eldar.
They'd have to be pants on head mental not to add the Chaos icon thing though. I doubt people will even use CSM codex walmart Daemons anymore.
Guy from reddit posted some basic battle reports/impressions from 6th.
played 2 games today. Both with my eldar. i tryed to use lots of the new stuff to see how stuff worked. also ive wanted to play eldar corsairs for years so i took an ally detachment of dark eldar.
My list:
2 farseers, 4 powers. swapped 2 out for divination each game, kept fortune and doom. (mainly to try the new powers)
10 dire avengers, exarch.
10 rangers. (to try the new sniper rule.)
2 times 6 bikes with a warlock in each.
2 times 2 vipers with shurk canon and scatter laser.
4 dark reapers with exarch. (to go in bastion, see if they might be worth it if the can definitely get a good vantage point and cant be shot. )
bastion with comms.
1 homunculus
5 kabalite warriors in venom
1 viodraven bomber.
first game was against spacewolves. he took gak loads of longfangs and wolf guard in terminator Armour. second game was against chaos who took a mix of stuff.
i wont report ill just give impressions.
the sniper rule is amazing with rangers as a 6 to hit also makes it AP1. took out cyclone missile launchers and meltas with ease. the bastion took heaps of fire well worth 75 pts. but when it explodes it really damages people inside. also its super vulnerable to melee, grenades and flamers also can do serious damage to the squads inside. the new powers were great. the signature from divination is a better guide. the one where you force them to reroll armor saves is amazing. but i felt in general buffing you own units is much better as then dont get deny the witch rolls.
the flyer was awesome. although its pretty unmaneuverable in zoom mode its really hard to kill the will waste alot if firepower shooting it. my advice is come on the corner of the board and aim for the middle.
senarios are awesome. i played the heavy support is a scoring unit and a kill point one. and the D3 objective one. had one normal deployment and one lengthways deployment (my dark reapers loved that one.) the secondary objectives are a big deal and seem to be the tie breaker alot of the time. jet bikes 48 move is amazing. get them in you opponents zone for linebreaker points or go grab objective on literally the other side of the table.
vehicles seem to die alot easier. especially after my mate pointed out that i had read the rules wrong and PENETRATING SHOTS ALSO REMOVE A HULL POINT, in addition to a roll on the table, makes sense to be fair. the warlord things didnt seem to do a great deal. but that was from some fairly boring rolls. but its pretty fun. the charges seem to work pretty well. i had one charge just fail cos i knocked off a model who would have been in range with overwatch, so be warned! combat felt ALOT smoother, but can become a bit more comlicated when there is an independent char in BSB and no one else. you basically have to roll the lookout sir rolls 1 at a time untill he dies so as to not break it. for future reference keep chars in the second ranks. also lookout sir is optional so you could in throry have a tough model at the front take all the hits and leave the rest of the squad unscathed until he dies. seems broken.
to sum up, feels like playing the same game, but smoother, more intuitive, and a lot freer with the allies and fortification, and always measuring.
Byte wrote:Rattman- has target selection changed during shooting? i.e. unit A must target unit B before unit C. Closest enenmy unit type and so forth? Or is it the same as 5th?
Maige wrote:undertow
3. What I'm really eager to find out is if they'll FAQ the icons in the CSM codex to allow Chaos Daemons to use them.
I have a similar interest in regards to casting Fortune on Dark Eldar, they'll really need to sort that one out because of rule lawyers who will say that the term 'Eldar' applies to Dark Eldar.
They'd have to be pants on head slowed not to add the Chaos icon thing though. I doubt people will even use CSM codex walmart Daemons anymore.
Honestly doubt it'll work... mostly due to the fact a rerollable 2++ save is a littttttttle broken.
MPJ wrote:One way that could possibly work to still make assault DE worthwhile is to ignore the fluff and play...defensively
Keep your assault units in raiders with disintegrator cannons as long as possible and as far back as possible and preferably in cover and shoot the MEQ and TEQ a turn or two to reduce the squads so that when you inevitably charge them with your assault units, you'll suffer less overwatch fire or maybe some squads will be dead and you can focuse two of yours on one of theirs, sparing an entire squad from being shot at
Of course, this is far from fool proof and it is rather boring and possibly even douchey, but what choice else do we have?
You mean they finally changed the game from "Fearless assault units try to get into hand to hand in one or two turns so they can slaughter the other guy's shooters." style it's been 3rd edition?
Softening units with shooting and then charging in to mop up is what SHOULD happen. The "all shooting" and "all assault" army styles are moronic.
Yes, that's how it should be played.
My point however is instead of using the speed of the raider and the swiftness of the assault unit to annihilate the enemy in turn two which is a viable tactic now, you have to sit back and hide.
Hiding in the deployment zone until the enemy has been so weakened that there's little to no risk moving up and assaulting which goes against how DE should be played and it's rather boring
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:The photographed page where the new weapon stats were shown ends talking about power klaws, and makes them sound different than fists. Clarification there?
Absolutely. And I would like to know if they finally gave an AP value to the deff rolla. It seems to me that being run over by a spiked metal cylinder being pushed in front of a tank shouldn't allow every armor save in the game.
Maige wrote:>Zid
>Honestly doubt it'll work... mostly due to the fact a rerollable 2++ save is a littttttttle broken.
Put it this way, if they give me a decent Agonizer, then I'll agree with you.
If not, then I'm buying Eldrad (an old pewter one for the lulz).
If they deny both........ well I suppose I'll make my own RL Agonizer and buy a ticket to Nottingham.
While I agree (greatly as I play a wychcult), I'll save judgement for Saturday. Though I'm far more excited to see my MC daemons beating face than my space pirates
Maige wrote:>Zid
>Honestly doubt it'll work... mostly due to the fact a rerollable 2++ save is a littttttttle broken.
Put it this way, if they give me a decent Agonizer, then I'll agree with you.
If not, then I'm buying Eldrad (an old pewter one for the lulz).
If they deny both........ well I suppose I'll make my own RL Agonizer and buy a ticket to Nottingham.
While I agree (greatly as I play a wychcult), I'll save judgement for Saturday. Though I'm far more excited to see my MC daemons beating face than my space pirates
Me too. I saw the MC changes and about wet myself. I'm probably going to wind up adding a CSM Daemon Prince and a squad of 1k sons to my daemon army and removing the Crushers. I'm just really eager to see what the FAQs say.
I play Wyches too. If that wasn't obvious from my constant whining in this thread lol.
We know enough about the rules currently to say that certain problems won't be addressed on the RB release, but rather on the Errata release.
Which if they don't address quickly enough may cause a serious dreadsock epidemic from some of our more 'passionate' players during the début 6thEd tourneys.
EDIT:@Crazyterran
I had a rant on that exact topic back on pg 107
Spoiler:
Maige wrote:
Joey wrote:
You mean you can't go into close combat with human tanks and blow them over? That must suck
Majorly. I know you're having a wind-up/troll, but the fluff argument doesn't make any sense. The Dark Eldar are supposed to be master tormentors, using sophisticated eldritch weaponry to inflict agony unrivalled. We have our standard 'Power Weapon' but we also have Blades which incinerate everything they touch leaving a trail of husky corpses behind. We have whips which fry your nervous system on contact. We have Blades which harness the power of trapped souls and giant two-handed power machetes.
Yet the only thing cracking a termie's armour is a pair of Mary Sue's daggers and a lucky venom hit from some swashbuckling meth addict?
..........I do love me some Sliscus though.
xttz wrote:
Harlequins can at least have Rending. Personally I'd just stock up on Void Ravens and blasters instead.
Kind of a 'let them eat cake' moment. Sure Dark Eldar can still shoot alright; no better than they used to, arguably worse. That's no consolation whatsoever.
It's like "Well we cut out your right eye for no particular reason, but you still have your left one".
I told myself I wasn't gonna get butthurt over 6th, I could handle it when they cut disembark distance, but taking away the ability to dent TEQs in CC has surely rustled my jimmies.
@Rattman: Can you use hull points to negate a damage roll on the chart, ie. your LR takes a PEN and your opponent rolls a 6, can you "spend" a Hull Point to negate this damage roll?
There is something all of the Wych Players are not looking at.
5th Edition: You get into Melee with a Grey Knight Strike or Terminator Squad, I am not going to Waste my NFW to ID and you only have 1 Wound. I am going to use Hammer-Hand to get my Strength to 5 and wound you on a 2+. Every would I inflict forces your 4++ Save, you fail and you die because you are denied your FNP.
6th Edition: You get into Melee with a Grey Knight Strike or Terminator Squad; Now I have a Choice, wound you on a 3+ and kill you with no FNP using them as Force Weapons or Use Hammer Hand and Wound you on a 2+ and then you get your 5+ FNP.
Actually, I interpreted their "willingness" to work together as a result of their mutual hatred for demons; Necrons like demons as much as the GK, and would be willing to remove them from the material plane.
The first problem with that is Trazy could care less about fighting demons. He wants toys, artifacts, goodies, rare ninja turtle collectables, etc. All his actions are based around the aquisition of said items, or the protection of them.
The second problem is he trusts no one, not even other necrons. He sure as hell isn't going to trust an Ordos Xenos inquisitor who kicked his front door down to try and make off with some of his "precioussess" and then proceeded to kill a few of his surogates.
I was referring to the Necrons as a whole teaming up with GK. I'm sorry, I should have been more specific in my post That, and I was too lazy to trim the post.
And yeah, Trazyn doesn't trust anyone. He's too afraid they might nab his collection.
If you read the part about the Labyrinths in the GK codex it says basically they got these from a race they are no longer on good terms with. I took that as an interpretation that there was a time where they traded as GK got lots of good bits from various races when they needed super super wargear.
Hmm, I had never really read that part till just now. Since the GK have been using them "over the millenia" which would indicate many thousands of years, either they were trading with a tomb world that woke much earlier than the rest, or the alien race described was another race altogether that raided Necron tomb worlds. Also, it also steals Valeria's thunder a little bit over escaping the labyrinth if she had experience with, or at least access to knowledge about the them. In either case, given the huge variety of tomb worlds, and complete lack of a central organization or leadership for the crons, really you could justify almost any race allying with at least some tomb worlds (except the eldar...and I still have a tough time accepting the Sisters just letting the whole Sanctuary 101 thing go).
@Anpu42
Except in 5th the GK terms actually had something to lose.
Even if they were killing a good number of Wyches, the Hekatrix was still going smack you around with the Agonizer.
In 6th there's almost no point assaulting them just to get a few str3 hits in.
Also, you seem to have omitted Overwatch from your calculations......
Maige wrote:I play Wyches too. If that wasn't obvious from my constant whining in this thread lol.
We know enough about the rules currently to say that certain problems won't be addressed on the RB release, but rather on the Errata release.
Which if they don't address quickly enough may cause a serious dreadsock epidemic from some of our more 'passionate' players during the début 6thEd tourneys.
EDIT:@Crazyterran
I had a rant on that exact topic back on pg 107
Spoiler:
Maige wrote:
Joey wrote:
You mean you can't go into close combat with human tanks and blow them over? That must suck
Majorly. I know you're having a wind-up/troll, but the fluff argument doesn't make any sense. The Dark Eldar are supposed to be master tormentors, using sophisticated eldritch weaponry to inflict agony unrivalled. We have our standard 'Power Weapon' but we also have Blades which incinerate everything they touch leaving a trail of husky corpses behind. We have whips which fry your nervous system on contact. We have Blades which harness the power of trapped souls and giant two-handed power machetes.
Yet the only thing cracking a termie's armour is a pair of Mary Sue's daggers and a lucky venom hit from some swashbuckling meth addict?
..........I do love me some Sliscus though.
xttz wrote:
Harlequins can at least have Rending. Personally I'd just stock up on Void Ravens and blasters instead.
Kind of a 'let them eat cake' moment. Sure Dark Eldar can still shoot alright; no better than they used to, arguably worse. That's no consolation whatsoever.
It's like "Well we cut out your right eye for no particular reason, but you still have your left one".
I told myself I wasn't gonna get butthurt over 6th, I could handle it when they cut disembark distance, but taking away the ability to dent TEQs in CC has surely rustled my jimmies.
Marneus Calgar's TDA stood up to an Avatar going Gungho on him. The he preceded to catch the blade, rip it out of the Avatar's hands, and punch him right in the heart. I'm sure TDA can stand up to Agonizers.
Crazyterran wrote:Marneus Calgar's TDA stood up to an Avatar going Gungho on him. The he preceded to catch the blade, rip it out of the Avatar's hands, and punch him right in the heart. I'm sure TDA can stand up to Agonizers.
Following the assault on GKTEQ scenario, we know that there's probably going to be a Psycannon in there (or two for pallies) and a bunch of storm bolters (potentially with psybolt).
Wyches have t3 6+ and fnp assuming a Heamon, it's still not going to take much to smack a good portion of a 9 strong squad, or potentially stop the assault in the first place assuring a quick death next turn.
This is irrelevant anyway because they can't do gak to the terms in the first place.
xxvaderxx wrote:Lol i love the fact 6 sky claws can reliably kill 1 tank per assault phase, with out any sort of gear (5 attacks per pup = 30 = 3.33 glancing against av10)
Gunner: Sir 6 raging lone dudes with clubs are coming straight at us!!!!!!
Giant tank commander: Oh my god retreat, our several tons of armor cant repel clubs of this magnitude!!!!!!
GO paper tank edition!!!!!. Lol im does anybody expect this edition NOT to become the gun line edition?, and i had such high hopes for the edition...
Well that can happen in 5th as well. My local GW had an "End of 5th" doubles tournament and me and another Tau player were up against Blood Angels and Vanilla Marines. A unit of Kroot, in one round of combat, removed two guns from a Baal predator and immobilised it, leaving it totally useless as it's remaining gun couldn't shoot anything.
Admittedly the tank didn't just die after being glanced three times but three glancing hit results made it completely useless, except as cover for our battlesuits to hide behind.
Except in 5th the GK terms actually had something to lose.
Even if they were killing a good number of Wyches, the Hekatrix was still going smack you around with the Agonizer.
In 6th there's almost no point assaulting them just to get a few str3 hits in.
Except not GK terminators pretty much auto loose to normal terminators (that in themselves are considered crap) point for point.
Why are you whining about wytches having trouble against terminators in cc by the way. The usual DE cheese of venom blaster spam and 30+point super bombs will simply kill everything wearing TDA from afar.
Wyches can take care of the rest in melee.
Except in 5th the GK terms actually had something to lose. Even if they were killing a good number of Wyches, the Hekatrix was still going smack you around with the Agonizer.
In 6th there's almost no point assaulting them just to get a few str3 hits in.
Except not GK terminators pretty much auto loose to normal terminators (that in themselves are considered crap) point for point.
Why are you whining about wytches having trouble against terminators in cc by the way. The usual DE cheese of venom blaster spam and 30+point super bombs will simply kill everything wearing TDA from afar. Wyches can take care of the rest in melee.
Because like I said, not everyone plays Blasterborn/Venom Spam (which also got nerfed btw, but I don't want to go into that one, much broader problem). VoidRavens were quite elusive in 5th because most people favoured Ravagers and there were no flying rules, so I wouldn't say they are the 'usual cheese'. Their effectiveness is still yet to be determined.
Crazyterran wrote: Marneus Calgar's TDA stood up to an Avatar going Gungho on him. The he preceded to catch the blade, rip it out of the Avatar's hands, and punch him right in the heart. I'm sure TDA can stand up to Agonizers.
The fluff argument is fallacious. If TDA is so avatarkillingl33thax0rs then why does it still go down to a freakin' Power Axe? Or a lucky Nid scratch?
Are you implying that the game devs said "Wait a second! It makes no sense for a terminator to go down against an elf whip! We better nerf all power weapons next edition in order to amend this gaping plot hole."
xxvaderxx wrote:Lol i love the fact 6 sky claws can reliably kill 1 tank per assault phase, with out any sort of gear (5 attacks per pup = 30 = 3.33 glancing against av10)
Gunner: Sir 6 raging lone dudes with clubs are coming straight at us!!!!!!
Giant tank commander: Oh my god retreat, our several tons of armor cant repel clubs of this magnitude!!!!!!
GO paper tank edition!!!!!. Lol im does anybody expect this edition NOT to become the gun line edition?, and i had such high hopes for the edition...
Well that can happen in 5th as well. My local GW had an "End of 5th" doubles tournament and me and another Tau player were up against Blood Angels and Vanilla Marines. A unit of Kroot, in one round of combat, removed two guns from a Baal predator and immobilised it, leaving it totally useless as it's remaining gun couldn't shoot anything.
Admittedly the tank didn't just die after being glanced three times but three glancing hit results made it completely useless, except as cover for our battlesuits to hide behind.
There is a significant difference betwin that could happen and that statistically happens. In 5th you could also survive penning hits.
@Anpu42: indeed. They are 5 pts cheaper, don't get jump pack but they get one special dude with WS5 for free. Chapter Banner is also 5 points cheaper. If Relic Blade remains just as good (maybe +2 S AP3), I can see a squad of these guys with Pedro (for 1 extra attack) and sang priest running around chopping stuff up.
Except in 5th the GK terms actually had something to lose.
Even if they were killing a good number of Wyches, the Hekatrix was still going smack you around with the Agonizer.
In 6th there's almost no point assaulting them just to get a few str3 hits in.
Except not GK terminators pretty much auto loose to normal terminators (that in themselves are considered crap) point for point.
Why are you whining about wytches having trouble against terminators in cc by the way. The usual DE cheese of venom blaster spam and 30+point super bombs will simply kill everything wearing TDA from afar.
Wyches can take care of the rest in melee.
Because like I said, not everyone plays Blasterborn/Venom Spam (which also got nerfed btw, but I don't want to go into that one, much broader problem).
VoidRavens were quite elusive in 5th because most people favoured Ravagers and there were no flying rules, so I wouldn't say they are the 'usual cheese'.
Their effectiveness is still yet to be determined.
Crazyterran wrote:
Marneus Calgar's TDA stood up to an Avatar going Gungho on him. The he preceded to catch the blade, rip it out of the Avatar's hands, and punch him right in the heart. I'm sure TDA can stand up to Agonizers.
The fluff argument is fallacious. If TDA is so avatarkillingl33thax0rs then why does it still go down to a freakin' Power Axe? Or a lucky Nid scratch?
Are you implying that the game devs said "Wait a second! It makes no sense for a terminator to go down against an elf whip! We better nerf all power weapons next edition in order to amend this gaping plot hole."
You're the one who said the Elf Whip should beable to break through the TDA because of the fluff. About how it's designed to inflict the maximum amount of pain possible, so that it clearly should beable to slice through a Terminator's Armour! I said that TDA can stand up to the sword of an Avatar, what are the chances that a freaking Whip should beable to get through TDA just fine?
Chances are, the Agonizer will get AP2. If it'll receive a Power Axe nerf and take a reduction in Initiative, that's fine with me, since it seems they want anything that can beat AP2 at I1. I can't imagine a whip being very easy to use in a combat.
Otherwise, it'll be AP3, and you'll have to use Incubi or whatever that does get the AP2 in close combat. Or just beat them down with the fact that you are going first against them.
xttz wrote:
What book is that from?
The 5th Edition Marine Codex, Battle of the Sepulchre
Crazyterran wrote:
You're the one who said the Elf Whip should beable to break through the TDA because of the fluff. About how it's designed to inflict the maximum amount of pain possible, so that it clearly should beable to slice through a Terminator's Armour! I said that TDA can stand up to the sword of an Avatar, what are the chances that a freaking Whip should beable to get through TDA just fine?
Chances are, the Agonizer will get AP2. If it'll receive a Power Axe nerf and take a reduction in Initiative, that's fine with me, since it seems they want anything that can beat AP2 at I1. I can't imagine a whip being very easy to use in a combat.
Otherwise, it'll be AP3, and you'll have to use Incubi or whatever that does get the AP2 in close combat. Or just beat them down with the fact that you are going first against them.
I was actually advocating against a fluff based argument by showing how inconsistent they are. Even within the DE dex we have a magpie swarm that can peel TEQ armour better than the best gear that Wyches can buy. Even a cheap SC like Robert Dukey Jr is more effective at the task than the CEO of Commorragh himself. Sliscus has poison 2+ which rend on 5+ while Vect has a poison 3+ Powah weapon. The cost difference between the two is absurd.
Which brings me to my actual point: it's a matter of economy. Agonizers are expensive weapons, we can already take a cheap power weapon. I don't really want to pay an extra 10points just to wound on a 4+, and I certainly don't want my main force to be absolutely ineffective against one of the most common (and soon to be more prevalent) units in the game. I'd be better off taking a Venom Blade.
Crazyterran wrote:
You're the one who said the Elf Whip should beable to break through the TDA because of the fluff. About how it's designed to inflict the maximum amount of pain possible, so that it clearly should beable to slice through a Terminator's Armour! I said that TDA can stand up to the sword of an Avatar, what are the chances that a freaking Whip should beable to get through TDA just fine?
Chances are, the Agonizer will get AP2. If it'll receive a Power Axe nerf and take a reduction in Initiative, that's fine with me, since it seems they want anything that can beat AP2 at I1. I can't imagine a whip being very easy to use in a combat.
Otherwise, it'll be AP3, and you'll have to use Incubi or whatever that does get the AP2 in close combat. Or just beat them down with the fact that you are going first against them.
I was actually advocating against a fluff based argument by showing how inconsistent they are. Even within the DE dex we have a magpie swarm that can peel TEQ armour better than the best gear that Wyches can buy. Even a cheap SC like Robert Dukey Jr is more effective at the task than the CEO of Commorragh himself. Sliscus has poison 2+ which rend on 5+ while Vect has a poison 3+ Powah weapon. The cost difference between the two is absurd.
Which brings me to my actual point: it's a matter of economy. Agonizers are expensive weapons, we can already take a cheap power weapon. I don't really want to pay an extra 10points just to wound on a 4+, and I certainly don't want my main force to be absolutely ineffective against one of the most common (and soon to be more prevalent) units in the game. I'd be better off taking a Venom Blade.
TEQ models are very common?
Maybe in your meta, but I've only seen a handful of Terminators that aren't in my Ultramarines army in my area. Sure, an all Terminator Grey Knights army sucks, but they are usually low (very low) on models, and you can just drown them in wychy bodies.
Expect to see a lot more after next week. But yeah they always were common in my meta and I use them myself quite often.
The point is that these new PW rules have created a strange little valley between 3+ and 2+ which the current books aren't prepared for. And it's not just my favourite dex that has suffered, in fact the craft elves are probably worse off.
Silly musing on my part: 6th is the edition of the 6. What I mean by that is that it seems to me that more so than the past, rolling a 6 on a d6 is that much more important, i.e. Rending, directed strikes (or whatever it is called), shooting at fliers, Snapfire (BS1 needing a 6), and those are just a few examples off the top of my head. Anyone else thinking the same?
Maybe in your meta, but I've only seen a handful of Terminators that aren't in my Ultramarines army in my area. Sure, an all Terminator Grey Knights army sucks, but they are usually low (very low) on models, and you can just drown them in wychy bodies.
Pretty sure he meant that is what he envisioned future 6th ed games would be, what with terminators being a lot more durable now. FNP buff and, until we all have the new rulebook, possibly not many CCW can get through their 2+ save.
But @Maige, I agree with the others, while I still agree with you on most part(assault DE brofist?), don't rule out our agoniser and huskblade until we see the FAQ... If GW has any sense in them, the FAQ may change it so our special weapons would be AP2 or lower. No one has yet confirmed the AP of our special weapons yet. Like you've said, we already have a power weapon option right now, it's hard to imagine GW would think the 4+ to wound justify the +10-15 point increase... But if the FAQ doesn't fix that, I'll join you in your murder spree, or as a shorter DE would say, "You have my whip.", or something to that extent.
With most Power Weapons being AP3, maybe I will give Belial his Lighting Claws. As part of his Command Squad and FNP, Look out Sir and giving the Sarge a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield [Shudder]...
Baronyu wrote:
Pretty sure he meant that is what he envisioned future 6th ed games would be, what with terminators being a lot more durable now. FNP buff and, until we all have the new rulebook, possibly not many CCW can get through their 2+ save.
But @Maige, I agree with the others, while I still agree with you on most part(assault DE brofist?), don't rule out our agoniser and huskblade until we see the FAQ... If GW has any sense in them, the FAQ may change it so our special weapons would be AP2 or lower. No one has yet confirmed the AP of our special weapons yet. Like you've said, we already have a power weapon option right now, it's hard to imagine GW would think the 4+ to wound justify the +10-15 point increase... But if the FAQ doesn't fix that, I'll join you in your murder spree, or as a shorter DE would say, "You have my whip.", or something to that extent.
Yeah I don't think they're that stupid either, I just enjoy having a good old Xenos rant before the inevitable GW Imperial pandering, although I should hold my tongue on that last one because the way the rules have been presented thus far (and I suppose I should emphasize that point) it seems as if Necrons will have an early dominance.
Sometimes I wonder if the devs ever peruse boards like this, or maybe they should do some polls on their site or something. It's not like balance issues are a blatant as an RTS chatroom.
But anyway, I am looking forward to the new edition.
Baronyu wrote:
Pretty sure he meant that is what he envisioned future 6th ed games would be, what with terminators being a lot more durable now. FNP buff and, until we all have the new rulebook, possibly not many CCW can get through their 2+ save.
But @Maige, I agree with the others, while I still agree with you on most part(assault DE brofist?), don't rule out our agoniser and huskblade until we see the FAQ... If GW has any sense in them, the FAQ may change it so our special weapons would be AP2 or lower. No one has yet confirmed the AP of our special weapons yet. Like you've said, we already have a power weapon option right now, it's hard to imagine GW would think the 4+ to wound justify the +10-15 point increase... But if the FAQ doesn't fix that, I'll join you in your murder spree, or as a shorter DE would say, "You have my whip.", or something to that extent.
Yeah I don't think they're that stupid either, I just enjoy having a good old Xenos rant before the inevitable GW Imperial pandering, although I should hold my tongue on that last one because the way the rules have been presented thus far (and I suppose I should emphasize that point) it seems as if Necrons will have an early dominance.
Sometimes I wonder if the devs ever peruse boards like this, or maybe they should do some polls on their site or something. It's not like balance issues are a blatant as an RTS chatroom.
But anyway, I am looking forward to the new edition.
(Wychfist)
Terminators are going to be OP, and GK are going to be unstoppable. Imagine a Paladin Squad with Apothocary and Draigo in a Stormraven :(
Baronyu wrote:
Pretty sure he meant that is what he envisioned future 6th ed games would be, what with terminators being a lot more durable now. FNP buff and, until we all have the new rulebook, possibly not many CCW can get through their 2+ save.
But @Maige, I agree with the others, while I still agree with you on most part(assault DE brofist?), don't rule out our agoniser and huskblade until we see the FAQ... If GW has any sense in them, the FAQ may change it so our special weapons would be AP2 or lower. No one has yet confirmed the AP of our special weapons yet. Like you've said, we already have a power weapon option right now, it's hard to imagine GW would think the 4+ to wound justify the +10-15 point increase... But if the FAQ doesn't fix that, I'll join you in your murder spree, or as a shorter DE would say, "You have my whip.", or something to that extent.
Yeah I don't think they're that stupid either, I just enjoy having a good old Xenos rant before the inevitable GW Imperial pandering, although I should hold my tongue on that last one because the way the rules have been presented thus far (and I suppose I should emphasize that point) it seems as if Necrons will have an early dominance.
Sometimes I wonder if the devs ever peruse boards like this, or maybe they should do some polls on their site or something. It's not like balance issues are a blatant as an RTS chatroom.
But anyway, I am looking forward to the new edition.
(Wychfist)
Terminators are going to be OP, and GK are going to be unstoppable. Imagine a Paladin Squad with Apothocary and Draigo in a Stormraven :(
Apothecaries won't be worth taking anymore, and Paladins won't be justifiable as a deathstar anymore. The loss of wound allocation pretty much set that in stone. Save your points and just buy a regular terminator squad.
I disagree, apothecaries are still good considering how much more people will be taking plasma and the like. Shooting is going to be the best way to try and take care of any kind of 2+ armor, so getting your 5+ FNP when your 5+ invul fails will im sure be worth the Apothecary's points over the course of the game.
I think paladins will still be viable, but I agree terminators are probably better bang for the buck at this point.
junk wrote:Well, Necrons and Blood Angels NOT being battle brothers put an end to the fear of Sanguinary Warriors, 20 rapid firing necrons with FNP+RP+Relentless+Fearless...
I was actually really looking forward to that.
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Curious to see the. Mathhammer on Lychguard vs Terminators now that Hyperphase Swords are probably AP3. For more points than a terminator I would hope they would at least do as well.
Hyperphase swords are indeed gonna be AP3, as they are listed a generic power weapons (although one could make the argument that they are aesthetically an axe in spite of their name), but the Warscythe -the beautifully truculent Warscythes- are not listed as such; they make no mention of being power weapons, and specifically state that no armour saves of any sort are permitted. This is in juxtaposition to the destriction of the Hyperphase Sword, so it is reasonable to believe that Warscythe-Lychguard will be able to cause some pain to the Terminators. However, sword-and-board-Lychguard cannot stand up to Terminators, it would seem.
Here's something that doesn't really make sense to me: Necrons are allies of convenience with Chaos Space Marines, but are listed as come the apocalypse of the Chaos Demons. That doesn't seem internally consistent.
@Rattman: One easy question, and one hard question-
What does the USR "Heavy" do?
What happens when a unit fails a morale test while embarked in a transport?
I don’t think things will be all that bad with Terminators. It looks like it will be a very “Shooty” battlefield.
Terminators are going to attract a lot of AP2 Weapons. With the ability to Glace Vehicles to death with lower Strength “Rapid Fire Weapons, they be spending a lot of time making Saving Throws.
With Power Swords being AP3 and Power Fist, Power axes, Thunder Hammers and Chain Fist being AP2, there are going to be a lot of those around.
They are going to as reliant as ever, nothing more, nothing less. At least that is my opinion.
I'm starting to think that Power Axes might almost make Chaos Terminators good in combat. Good enough to warrant me using them as an actual assault unit, rather than purely a support unit, at least.
They might strike last, but there seems to be few weapons that strike before them that are AP2, and the +1 Strength negates one of their annoying weaknesses IMHO.
Throw on a combi-melta or -plasma for shooting ability and you have a pretty good deal for 35pts each (as far as the Chaos codex goes, at least). They'll still struggle against storm shields, but they might be one of the better options we have for combating GK Termies, IMHO.
xxvaderxx wrote:Lol i love the fact 6 sky claws can reliably kill 1 tank per assault phase, with out any sort of gear (5 attacks per pup = 30 = 3.33 glancing against av10)
Gunner: Sir 6 raging lone dudes with clubs are coming straight at us!!!!!!
Giant tank commander: Oh my god retreat, our several tons of armor cant repel clubs of this magnitude!!!!!!
GO paper tank edition!!!!!. Lol im does anybody expect this edition NOT to become the gun line edition?, and i had such high hopes for the edition...
Well that can happen in 5th as well. My local GW had an "End of 5th" doubles tournament and me and another Tau player were up against Blood Angels and Vanilla Marines. A unit of Kroot, in one round of combat, removed two guns from a Baal predator and immobilised it, leaving it totally useless as it's remaining gun couldn't shoot anything.
Admittedly the tank didn't just die after being glanced three times but three glancing hit results made it completely useless, except as cover for our battlesuits to hide behind.
I recently went against a meched up plasma vets IG army with a Dark Eldar army of raider warriors and ravagers. On the first turn, I went flat out forward with the raiders to get into my desired shooting positions and went slower with my ravagers for protection. Wiffed with 80% of my shooting, only managed to immobilize one chimera. Next turn, his shooting causes shaken results on three of my raiders and one of my ravagers and destroys four assorted vehicle weapons. the rest of the game went sort of like that and by the fifth turn I was all but tabled. I'll be using a combination of raiders and big units of WWP Wyches from now on.
I am really hoping for regular Terminators to become viable again. It would be really easy to do, just make taking Assault Cannons or Typhon Missile Launchers a lot cheaper, and let squads take 4 of them.
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:I am really hoping for regular Terminators to become viable again. It would be really easy to do, just make taking Assault Cannons or Typhon Missile Launchers a lot cheaper, and let squads take 4 of them.
I am going to pretend I did not just read that. And I have a Space Wolves army...
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:I am really hoping for regular Terminators to become viable again. It would be really easy to do, just make taking Assault Cannons or Typhon Missile Launchers a lot cheaper, and let squads take 4 of them.
I am going to pretend I did not just read that. And I have a Space Wolves army...
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:I am really hoping for regular Terminators to become viable again. It would be really easy to do, just make taking Assault Cannons or Typhon Missile Launchers a lot cheaper, and let squads take 4 of them.
I know I am going to be throwing in a few TH/SS in each of my DW for the Look Out Sir to keep the special weapon alive.
Because Chaos Terminators come with "power axes'' on their models and as such are free upgrades. Power fists costs points.
Exactly, it saves 10pts per model. Power fists can be good in small numbers, but they get prohibitively expensive if you want to take whole squads of them.
Crazyterran wrote:
You're the one who said the Elf Whip should beable to break through the TDA because of the fluff. About how it's designed to inflict the maximum amount of pain possible, so that it clearly should beable to slice through a Terminator's Armour! I said that TDA can stand up to the sword of an Avatar, what are the chances that a freaking Whip should beable to get through TDA just fine?
Chances are, the Agonizer will get AP2. If it'll receive a Power Axe nerf and take a reduction in Initiative, that's fine with me, since it seems they want anything that can beat AP2 at I1. I can't imagine a whip being very easy to use in a combat.
Otherwise, it'll be AP3, and you'll have to use Incubi or whatever that does get the AP2 in close combat. Or just beat them down with the fact that you are going first against them.
I was actually advocating against a fluff based argument by showing how inconsistent they are. Even within the DE dex we have a magpie swarm that can peel TEQ armour better than the best gear that Wyches can buy. Even a cheap SC like Robert Dukey Jr is more effective at the task than the CEO of Commorragh himself. Sliscus has poison 2+ which rend on 5+ while Vect has a poison 3+ Powah weapon. The cost difference between the two is absurd.
Which brings me to my actual point: it's a matter of economy. Agonizers are expensive weapons, we can already take a cheap power weapon. I don't really want to pay an extra 10points just to wound on a 4+, and I certainly don't want my main force to be absolutely ineffective against one of the most common (and soon to be more prevalent) units in the game. I'd be better off taking a Venom Blade.
Terminators are hardly one of the most prevalent units in the game. GK terminators barely saw the table in fifth when paladins did their job dramatically better and standard tactical terminators have been fluffy trash for two editions of 40k. Stop considering wyches to be anti terminator units. They clearly won't be in the next edition. If they function in that capacity it will be due to weight of attacks, not the hidden agonizer. Dark eldar have plenty of alternatives for torrenting down base terminators, in fact nearly every unit in their codex seems well designed to take them out.
Red Corsair wrote:I am stunned that people complain about agonizer and wych attacks, they really do suck at taking down elite CC units.
Think about what they will do to Guard and Ork Troop Units. You may loose a few on they way in, but there is a chance they will not even get a chance to fight back when you remove the front rank.
Red Corsair wrote:I am stunned that people complain about agonizer and wych attacks, they really do suck at taking down elite CC units.
Think about what they will do to Guard and Ork Troop Units. You may loose a few on they way in, but there is a chance they will not even get a chance to fight back when you remove the front rank.
You thought Shoota boys were the norm in 5th. Well thats all you will see in 6th. I know from me at least.
Are Land Raiders good or bad in this edition? I see half the posts in other threads rejoicing about how great the LR is ganna be, and the other half crying about how they are paper thin now. Why is this? What are the pros and cons of LRs in 6th ed?
Ryan_A wrote:Are Land Raiders good or bad in this edition? I see half the posts in other threads rejoicing about how great the LR is ganna be, and the other half crying about how they are paper thin now. Why is this? What are the pros and cons of LRs in 6th ed?
They are easier to destroy, since you can tear them down with repeated glances, but more difficult to suppress, since glances don't roll on the damage table. It makes it more likely that they will function at full capacity until they fall apart.
Which was before mitigated somewhat by Extra Armour.
The general thought is that they are not as good as they were, but I do not think they are useless.
Ryan_A wrote:Are Land Raiders good or bad in this edition? I see half the posts in other threads rejoicing about how great the LR is ganna be, and the other half crying about how they are paper thin now. Why is this? What are the pros and cons of LRs in 6th ed?
I think Land Raiders, Leman Russ’s and Battle Wagons are going to be like Rabid Pit Bulls.
With the move 6” and Fire everything they are going to inflict insane damage and carnage until they are put down. The new Space Marine Choice for King of the Battle field I think will be units like the Redeemer and Storm Ravens.
If any are left at the end of the 3rd turn they did real good, but I think the day of the Undying Land Raider is over.
Oh, I see what yall mean and how the rules fit in. I think the new rule seem pretty balanced, me and my vets love the new rapid fire rule, its ganna be an interesting few games to see how my army settles in.
Other Vehicles that will benefit form the New Movement Rules
Ball Predator [with Heavy Flamers]
Hellhound/Devil Dog/Bane Wolf [with Heavy Flamers]
Chimera [with 2 Heavy Flamers and Flamer Vets]
My Leman Russ Demolisher [with 3 Heavy Flamers]
Rhinos [with 2 guys with Flamers out the top]
Most of the Sisters Vehicles [Lots of Heavy Flamers]
Ryan_A wrote:Are Land Raiders good or bad in this edition? I see half the posts in other threads rejoicing about how great the LR is ganna be, and the other half crying about how they are paper thin now. Why is this? What are the pros and cons of LRs in 6th ed?
I think Land Raiders, Leman Russ’s and Battle Wagons are going to be like Rabid Pit Bulls.
With the move 6” and Fire everything they are going to inflict insane damage and carnage until they are put down. The new Space Marine Choice for King of the Battle field I think will be units like the Redeemer and Storm Ravens.
If any are left at the end of the 3rd turn they did real good, but I think the day of the Undying Land Raider is over.
The redeemer is terrible and it won't get any better this edition. The Crusader on the other hand has found itself with a fantastic amount of utility with a standard 24" range and twin-linking (rather than an 8-1/2" template), which will be extremely important in this edition.
BT should be fantastic for a while given preferred enemy and ability to missile spam + tank hunter.
The Storm Raven remains overcosted and too light on AV to survive long even as flyers. Hydra Flak should appear left right and centre alongside riflemen dreadnoughts and ping all flyers to death (just like they do currently). Twin linking as I said will be extremely important in this edition.
Ryan_A wrote:Are Land Raiders good or bad in this edition? I see half the posts in other threads rejoicing about how great the LR is ganna be, and the other half crying about how they are paper thin now. Why is this? What are the pros and cons of LRs in 6th ed?
I think Land Raiders, Leman Russ’s and Battle Wagons are going to be like Rabid Pit Bulls.
With the move 6” and Fire everything they are going to inflict insane damage and carnage until they are put down. The new Space Marine Choice for King of the Battle field I think will be units like the Redeemer and Storm Ravens.
If any are left at the end of the 3rd turn they did real good, but I think the day of the Undying Land Raider is over.
The redeemer is terrible and it won't get any better this edition. The Crusader on the other hand has found itself with a fantastic amount of utility with a standard 24" range and twin-linking (rather than an 8-1/2" template), which will be extremely important in this edition.
BT should be fantastic for a while given preferred enemy and ability to missile spam + tank hunter.
The Storm Raven remains overcosted and too light on AV to survive long even as flyers. Hydra Flak should appear left right and centre alongside riflemen dreadnoughts and ping all flyers to death (just like they do currently). Twin linking as I said will be extremely important in this edition.
If you can get the Redeemer Close, you can move 12" Let the Flame Storm Cannons go along with the Assault Cannon, and the put the Multi-Melta into a Second Target. That could take out a large mob and a possibly another tank. Then when what’s left of the mob assaults you that is 2d3 more Firestorm Shots.
As far as the Storm Raven, as a Flyer “Zooming” around it should do ok for a turn or two.
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:and let squads take 4 of them.
No
Whoah dude you totally read my mind! People are too spoiled with TH/SS, they expect too much out of normal termies. Ferrum, if it's any consolation, you'll be able to take your 2+ save much more often with normal termies- stormbolters and assault cannons are already pretty killer
Ryan_A wrote:Are Land Raiders good or bad in this edition? I see half the posts in other threads rejoicing about how great the LR is ganna be, and the other half crying about how they are paper thin now. Why is this? What are the pros and cons of LRs in 6th ed?
They are easier to destroy, since you can tear them down with repeated glances, but more difficult to suppress, since glances don't roll on the damage table. It makes it more likely that they will function at full capacity until they fall apart.
Which was before mitigated somewhat by Extra Armour.
The general thought is that they are not as good as they were, but I do not think they are useless.
Ryan_A wrote:Are Land Raiders good or bad in this edition? I see half the posts in other threads rejoicing about how great the LR is ganna be, and the other half crying about how they are paper thin now. Why is this? What are the pros and cons of LRs in 6th ed?
I think Land Raiders, Leman Russ’s and Battle Wagons are going to be like Rabid Pit Bulls.
With the move 6” and Fire everything they are going to inflict insane damage and carnage until they are put down. The new Space Marine Choice for King of the Battle field I think will be units like the Redeemer and Storm Ravens.
If any are left at the end of the 3rd turn they did real good, but I think the day of the Undying Land Raider is over.
The redeemer is terrible and it won't get any better this edition. The Crusader on the other hand has found itself with a fantastic amount of utility with a standard 24" range and twin-linking (rather than an 8-1/2" template), which will be extremely important in this edition.
BT should be fantastic for a while given preferred enemy and ability to missile spam + tank hunter.
The Storm Raven remains overcosted and too light on AV to survive long even as flyers. Hydra Flak should appear left right and centre alongside riflemen dreadnoughts and ping all flyers to death (just like they do currently). Twin linking as I said will be extremely important in this edition.
If you can get the Redeemer Close, you can move 12" Let the Flame Storm Cannons go along with the Assault Cannon, and the put the Multi-Melta into a Second Target. That could take out a large mob and a possibly another tank. Then when what’s left of the mob assaults you that is 2d3 more Firestorm Shots.
As far as the Storm Raven, as a Flyer “Zooming” around it should do ok for a turn or two.
Can tanks Snap-Shoot with templates?
If so the Redeemer would be pretty usefull for heading to the enemy pretty fast (since it is more fragile) and then ignoring the BS1 with the flamers.
Ryan_A wrote:Are Land Raiders good or bad in this edition? I see half the posts in other threads rejoicing about how great the LR is ganna be, and the other half crying about how they are paper thin now. Why is this? What are the pros and cons of LRs in 6th ed?
I think Land Raiders, Leman Russ’s and Battle Wagons are going to be like Rabid Pit Bulls.
With the move 6” and Fire everything they are going to inflict insane damage and carnage until they are put down. The new Space Marine Choice for King of the Battle field I think will be units like the Redeemer and Storm Ravens.
If any are left at the end of the 3rd turn they did real good, but I think the day of the Undying Land Raider is over.
The redeemer is terrible and it won't get any better this edition. The Crusader on the other hand has found itself with a fantastic amount of utility with a standard 24" range and twin-linking (rather than an 8-1/2" template), which will be extremely important in this edition.
BT should be fantastic for a while given preferred enemy and ability to missile spam + tank hunter.
The Storm Raven remains overcosted and too light on AV to survive long even as flyers. Hydra Flak should appear left right and centre alongside riflemen dreadnoughts and ping all flyers to death (just like they do currently). Twin linking as I said will be extremely important in this edition.
If you can get the Redeemer Close, you can move 12" Let the Flame Storm Cannons go along with the Assault Cannon, and the put the Multi-Melta into a Second Target. That could take out a large mob and a possibly another tank. Then when what’s left of the mob assaults you that is 2d3 more Firestorm Shots.
As far as the Storm Raven, as a Flyer “Zooming” around it should do ok for a turn or two.
Firstly: Flyers are reserves, with allies you can drop reserve rolls by up to -4.
Secondly: Flamestorms are an 8-1/2 template and you are only likely to get 1 template in max when firing.else you're getting max 4-5 models with both if you're 1" away if your enemy has any amount of sense.
Thirdly: Who would assault a Land Raider Redeemer anyway? Beyond 9" you're safe, ping it to death like everything else from range. It's advantage is very limited.
Fourthly: Only effective against horde builds, you're spending in the realm of 260pts for something that has subpar shooting compared to the other patterns (vanilla and crusader).
Fifthly: No utility, short range only, in the vanilla codex the godhammer has the same transport capacity and much more versatility not to mention the crusaders excessive transport capacity.
Finally: In a GK build, the Hurricane Bolters can benefit from Psybolt ammo whilst you need to spend +15pts on Psyflame, far more efficient choice is the Hurricane Bolters which suddenly gain the ability to ping low AV flyers.
Anpu42 wrote:I know you can snap shot Template, but not Blast
So that would seem to favore the Reedemer over the Crusader then it seems. Anything to mitigate the BS1 from firing all your weapons after moving fast. POTMS the MultiMelta if you have it, if you don't fire the TL assault cannons. BS1 assault cannons would benefit from being TL. Flamestorm Cannons on either side that fire templates that ignore BS1.
More incentive to move fast to ignore getting glanced to death it seems.
Complete topic change (no one knows anything on bikes?), how sure are we that glances auto kill when HP run out (and not that you then just treat glances as pens when the HP are gone). Is it word of mouth or am I missing it in the pics on page 1?
Ehsteve wrote:Firstly: Flyers are reserves, with allies you can drop reserve rolls by up to -4.
Secondly: Flamestorms are an 8-1/2 template and you are only likely to get 1 template in max when firing.else you're getting max 4-5 models with both if you're 1" away if your enemy has any amount of sense.
Thirdly: Who would assault a Land Raider Redeemer anyway? Beyond 9" you're safe, ping it to death like everything else from range. It's advantage is very limited.
Fourthly: Only effective against horde builds, you're spending in the realm of 260pts for something that has subpar shooting compared to the other patterns (vanilla and crusader).
Fifthly: No utility, short range only, in the vanilla codex the godhammer has the same transport capacity and much more versatility not to mention the crusaders excessive transport capacity.
Finally: In a GK build, the Hurricane Bolters can benefit from Psybolt ammo whilst you need to spend +15pts on Psyflame, far more efficient choice is the Hurricane Bolters which suddenly gain the ability to ping low AV flyers.
I guess I have not had the experiences that you have had.
This a trick I have been using.
You move up to a center of the enemy unit [most units have an 8”-12” “Frontage”], yes I have done it a few times, and then apply Templates, Assault Cannon and the Storm Bolter into the Infantry Unit. Then Feed the Multi-Melta into something else. Now with the 12” and fire everything this will be even easier to do. I might even team it up my Crusader.
The problem with the Redeemer is the placement of those sponsons. It makes it way too difficult to hit things reliably. Whereas all of the other Land Raiders will always have targets.
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:The problem with the Redeemer is the placement of those sponsons. It makes it way too difficult to hit things reliably. Whereas all of the other Land Raiders will always have targets.
I guess it also depends on how aressive you are with them
Max Speed Pop Smoke, find cover whatever give you a save. Wait for something to to get close to you, them pounce. It also helps to have the Sponsons on the "Forward Doors"
Ryan_A wrote:Are Land Raiders good or bad in this edition? I see half the posts in other threads rejoicing about how great the LR is ganna be, and the other half crying about how they are paper thin now. Why is this? What are the pros and cons of LRs in 6th ed?
They are easier to destroy, since you can tear them down with repeated glances, but more difficult to suppress, since glances don't roll on the damage table. It makes it more likely that they will function at full capacity until they fall apart.
Which was before mitigated somewhat by Extra Armour.
The general thought is that they are not as good as they were, but I do not think they are useless.
How is extra armor working in the new release?
This was answered twice in about 10 pages already.
It works the same. No extra hull points, it just reduces stuns to shakens. (Remember that stun is now a result of 2 and 3 now.)
Ryan_A wrote:Are Land Raiders good or bad in this edition? I see half the posts in other threads rejoicing about how great the LR is ganna be, and the other half crying about how they are paper thin now. Why is this? What are the pros and cons of LRs in 6th ed?
They are easier to destroy, since you can tear them down with repeated glances, but more difficult to suppress, since glances don't roll on the damage table. It makes it more likely that they will function at full capacity until they fall apart.
Which was before mitigated somewhat by Extra Armour.
The general thought is that they are not as good as they were, but I do not think they are useless.
How is extra armor working in the new release?
This was answered twice in about 10 pages already.
It works the same. No extra hull points, it just reduces stuns to shakens. (Remember that stun is now a result of 2 and 3 now.)
Pretty sure it's Shaken at 1 and 2, Stunned at 3, Weapon Destroyed at 4, Immobilized at 5, Explodes! on 6.
Ryan_A wrote:Are Land Raiders good or bad in this edition? I see half the posts in other threads rejoicing about how great the LR is ganna be, and the other half crying about how they are paper thin now. Why is this? What are the pros and cons of LRs in 6th ed?
They are easier to destroy, since you can tear them down with repeated glances, but more difficult to suppress, since glances don't roll on the damage table. It makes it more likely that they will function at full capacity until they fall apart.
Which was before mitigated somewhat by Extra Armour.
The general thought is that they are not as good as they were, but I do not think they are useless.
How is extra armor working in the new release?
This was answered twice in about 10 pages already.
It works the same. No extra hull points, it just reduces stuns to shakens. (Remember that stun is now a result of 2 and 3 now.)
Pretty sure it's Shaken at 1 and 2, Stunned at 3, Weapon Destroyed at 4, Immobilized at 5, Explodes! on 6.
But now a stun result is only achieved by a penetrating hit, while a glancing hit only removes a HP. E.g., for a lascannon you need to roll a 6 to penetrate a LR.
Hence, extra armor will get more overpriced than it is now, and it is already overpriced in the current ed.
Thunderfrog wrote:Can GK Transports give up fortitude and roll abilities on the Psyker charts?
Surely not?
Just Librarians and Inquisitors can, receiving one new per mastery level. It's unclear whether Librarians lose Hammerhand, but you lose any other powers.
wuestenfux wrote:
But now a stun result is only achieved by a penetrating hit, while a glancing hit only removes a HP. E.g., for a lascannon you need to roll a 6 to penetrate a LR.
Hence, extra armor will get more overpriced than it is now, and it is already overpriced in the current ed.
Ah, I see how they decided to make extra armor more useless than ever:
GW writer 1: Hey Now that only pens get a roll on the damage table, extra armor isn't as valuable, should we buff it or lower the cost?
GW writer 2: Meh, lets just do nothing with it and make it completely useless
GW writer 1: Meh, alright.
Because Chaos Terminators come with "power axes'' on their models and as such are free upgrades. Power fists costs points.
Could've sworn I've seen them running around with mauls...
The box comes with both. By pure luck, all of my power weapon Termies were assembled with power axes...
Though power mauls could also work as a budget solution for anti-tank attacks if you need. S6 attacks + Concussion might find use.
What's going to be fething annoying for me is rejigging all my squads for some nice sort of consistency - i.e. making sure I have some dedicated AP4 or less murder squads with mauls, combi flamers and LCs, some dedicated monster killers with fists and chainfists and some dedicated armour crackers with power axes and fists.
Thankfully I have about 60 terminators to dance about so this should be acheivable!
Griever wrote:Fortunately, Hive Guard and Genestealers are still really, really good.
lol wut? Genestealers? Haven't you read the rumours? They lose Fleet, cover and FNP goes down to 5+, charge distance is random, they will be shot when charging and have to remove models from the front, and premeasure is in = kited to Hell and back. I'm actually glad I never got around to buy more Genestealers because they sound like they will be a joke in 6th ed. Pehaps there will be a role for them, minsized with Broodlord to get random psychic powers, but it doesn't look good.
I'd still like to know if you get a consolidation after having destroyed a vehicle in combat. It's one of the great injustices and annoyances of the 5th ed -
'Finally my Genestealers managed to blow up that 35pt Rhino! Er.. but 5 of them died in the explosion however, the unit inside all survived and now they kill the remaining 10 clumped up Genestealers with a Flamer and some rapid fire. Good trade...'
I don't know, I just can't believe that extra armor is the same, I bet it gives +1 hull point. Otherwise it will only be used IF they PEN and IF they roll a 3. What are the odds? Id' much rather take a MM or SB.
N.I.B. wrote:lol wut? Genestealers? Haven't you read the rumours? They lose Fleet, cover and FNP goes down to 5+, charge distance is random, they will be shot when charging and have to remove models from the front, and premeasure is in = kited to Hell and back. I'm actually glad I never got around to buy more Genestealers because they sound like they will be a joke in 6th ed. Pehaps there will be a role for them, minsized with Broodlord to get random psychic powers, but it doesn't look good.
Welcome to Xenos assault in 6th edition, brought to you by Games Workshop. Please purchase some Terminators if you wish to assault anything, thank you.
BA Terminators with FNP will actually get a boost, since those nasty plasma weapons do not negate it. So a Tactical Termie can roll for a 5++ inv save and then for a 5+ FNP save.
I haven't seen this question come up yet, so here's yet another question about allies (if anyone can answer):
If I choose to take allies, must I take both an HQ and Troops choice, or is that only a requirement if I want an allied Elite/FA/HS choice? That is, could I just take an allied Troops choice, without a corresponding HQ?
And I'm guessing that units that 'are treated as a HQ/Elite?Troop?FA/HS but do not fill up a force organisations slot' or dedicated transports don't count towards the minimum?
N.I.B. wrote:lol wut? Genestealers? Haven't you read the rumours? They lose Fleet, cover and FNP goes down to 5+, charge distance is random, they will be shot when charging and have to remove models from the front, and premeasure is in = kited to Hell and back. I'm actually glad I never got around to buy more Genestealers because they sound like they will be a joke in 6th ed. Pehaps there will be a role for them, minsized with Broodlord to get random psychic powers, but it doesn't look good.
Welcome to Xenos assault in 6th edition, brought to you by Games Workshop. Please purchase some Terminators if you wish to assault anything, thank you.
junk wrote:According to what we've seen, allies come with a compulsory 1 HQ and 1 Troop minimum.
Matt.Kingsley wrote:And I'm guessing that units that 'are treated as a HQ/Elite?Troop?FA/HS but do not fill up a force organisations slot' or dedicated transports don't count towards the minimum?
@junk: Thanks, that's what I thought.
@Matt.Kingsley: We'll see. GW has been notoriously silent on this issue except for the case of the BT Emperor's Champion, but it's been hard setting a precedent with that particular HQ because it's compulsory in armies of a certain size. They might cover it in an FAQ, but I'm not holding my breath.
I was really hoping 6e would be more similar to Pancake edition... those rules, for what they are, are amazing in comparison to 5e, and with the exception of the obtuse flyer rules, were fantastic.
It would have been a much ballsier move for GW to incorporate more of the Pancake stuff into 6e, like the simplified turn order with all movement taking place in the first phase of a turn, the evasion rules, and the lethal outflank/deep strike stuff combined with the reaction rules. I have played a lot of Pancake games and really enjoy that ruleset, even with the holes.
That being said, I do like the 'cinematic' wound allocation, in theory, and as far as I can tell, the allies stuff looks fun for players like me, more johnny than spike, and I'm looking forward to seeing the campaign and custom scenario support.
I'd like to see a renegade edition combining the best of pancake with 6e, provided the 6e rules turn out to be underwhelming once all of our $100 rulebooks arrive.
Automatically Appended Next Post: My tyranid friends are still optimistic that the promise of "designed with 6e in mind" means that some heretofore unobfuscated (real word?) section of the rulebook comes to light with exciting new options for them. At the current level of revelation there are still some opportunities for optimism.
...
(Wychfist)
