27151
Post by: streamdragon
JB wrote:streamdragon wrote:Drunkspleen wrote:streamdragon wrote:Ouch... double whammy for Orks unless trukks get a special exemption from the "No assaulting out of moving vehicles, even open topped ones". Dark Eldar too, I would imagine.
Open Topped vehicles can be assaulted out of, they have a special rule shared with the likes of Land Raiders and Stormravens
Ah, I must have missed that point somewhere. Just saw this:
Are Fast, open-topped Transports still the exception to the 6" disembark rule?
[–]Rixitotal[S] 2 points 7 hours ago
nope
And figured I wouldn't be getting out of any trukk that had gone farther than a Boy could walk.
You still misunderstand how it is rumored to work. Your trukk moves 6", you disembark the passengers up to 6" from any point on the sides of the trukk. In the assault, you move 2D6 inches to, hopefully, make contact with your target. you should also get the 1" extra for a Red Paint Job unless GW changes it in the FAQ.
All open- topped transports have the Assault USR so their passengers are eligible to assault in the same turn that they disembark. Sixth edition still doesn't allow the Rhino Rush, according to the folks that claim to have a rulebook.
Much clearer then. Thank you. 
37755
Post by: Harriticus
Drunkspleen wrote:BarBoBot wrote:So tau are battle brothers with space marines...
and not the IG who would have let them include a cool gue'vesa attachment, yeah I'm a bit perplexed by it too, presumably some of Ward's fluff will explain it... poorly
A little Wardy told me that the Tau secretly wish to be Ultramarines.
1464
Post by: Breotan
pretre wrote:BarBoBot wrote:So tau are battle brothers with space marines...
BB is green. Tau are BB with Eldar only.
Look again.
57824
Post by: Senpai_
pretre wrote:BarBoBot wrote:So tau are battle brothers with space marines...
BB is green. Tau are BB with Eldar only.
They are with both Eldar and Space Marines
54504
Post by: quilava1
hahaha GW posted on their website that "Necrons will love this" (hull points). Of course, when you auto-glance on a 6 and you have a transport with max hull points (and 4 guess on each side) they are going to tend to love it. It also said "fear the land raider" :p yeah right...
37097
Post by: blood lance
I personally think that the servo skull tape measure is made from the skulls of complacent staff...
37097
Post by: blood lance
quilava1 wrote:hahaha GW posted on their website that "Necrons will love this" (hull points). Of course, when you auto-glance on a 6 and you have a transport with max hull points (and 4 guess on each side) they are going to tend to love it. It also said "fear the land raider" :p yeah right...
Within the white dwarf IIRC it is noted that guass will be changed to 1 automatic hull point lost on the roll of a 6, correct me if Im wrong though.
27151
Post by: streamdragon
So Space Marines are Brothers in Battle to Tau, but only Allies of Convenience to Sisters of Battle.
ooooookaaaaaaay.....
38473
Post by: Zwan1One
Harriticus wrote:Drunkspleen wrote:BarBoBot wrote:So tau are battle brothers with space marines...
and not the IG who would have let them include a cool gue'vesa attachment, yeah I'm a bit perplexed by it too, presumably some of Ward's fluff will explain it... poorly
A little Wardy told me that the Tau secretly wish to be Ultramarines.
So they can't create the ultimate tank gun line?
54121
Post by: Maige
Senpai_ wrote:
Looks like I'm not the only one with scans.....
What's the TOS with this? I only posted the matrix so we could compare it to what we had.
20774
Post by: pretre
Breotan wrote:pretre wrote:BarBoBot wrote:So tau are battle brothers with space marines...
BB is green. Tau are BB with Eldar only.
Look again.
Oooh, my bad. My mom was right, I really will go blind.
54504
Post by: quilava1
blood lance wrote:quilava1 wrote:hahaha GW posted on their website that "Necrons will love this" (hull points). Of course, when you auto-glance on a 6 and you have a transport with max hull points (and 4 guess on each side) they are going to tend to love it. It also said "fear the land raider" :p yeah right...
Within the white dwarf IIRC it is noted that guass will be changed to 1 automatic hull point lost on the roll of a 6, correct me if Im wrong though.
Your half right. Glances take a hull point automatically, and Necrons auto-glance
20774
Post by: pretre
Ugh. Someone needs a better camera/scanner.
25927
Post by: Thunderfrog
Ninjas abound.
241
Post by: Ahtman
I was planning on going Tau with IG support and model them as Human Auxiliaries, but now that I know that Firewarriors and Space Marines are the very bestest of friends...
25081
Post by: Lysenis
Zwan1One wrote:Harriticus wrote:Drunkspleen wrote:BarBoBot wrote:So tau are battle brothers with space marines...
and not the IG who would have let them include a cool gue'vesa attachment, yeah I'm a bit perplexed by it too, presumably some of Ward's fluff will explain it... poorly
A little Wardy told me that the Tau secretly wish to be Ultramarines.
So they can't create the ultimate tank gun line?
Fire Warriors doubletapping at 30" range is going to be somewhat crazy. Even with the horrid BS they still hit 1 of those shots. . . Add in a Dread, a libby, a sternguard squad, and a Tactical Squad and this may cause some issues. . .
All I know that with the way assaulting works I am retooling my lists to be more shooting heavy, which is how I LOVE to play!
43229
Post by: Ovion
Can someone with a book please post the Force Org Chart page?
Pretty Please?
48860
Post by: Joey
Maige wrote:
I'll just leave this here.
Nearly all of those icons are completely arbitrary. Is there a text version?
26672
Post by: Sephyr
Jidmah wrote:Outside of the IG, who did charge terminators with a single 15 point power weapon on the squad leader?
My Khorne Berserkers, all the time. With amazing success.
A Skull Champion in a PW on the charge had 5 attacks, hitting and wounding termis on 3s. That's about 2-3 terminators doing inv saves instead of 2+, and was a nice combo with the torrent of regular attacks put out by regular zerkers.
Zerkers somewhat suck now too, with Furious Charge being nerfed....
25081
Post by: Lysenis
So My Blood Angels are buddies with Vanilla SM and Space Wolves. . . .hmmm If I go Space Wolves, 2 Grey Hunter squads with a Thunder Wolf Cav support added to my normal Assault Squads and Priests
If I go Vanilla, a Stormtalon as Escort with my Baal Preds. . . . Even though I HATE SW's I may find a way to incorperate them into my armies fluff. . . Goign to be list building aplenty on saturday!
Hmmm or IG. . . .Vendetta's aplenty with a Hydra squadron, With Vets or even a Platoon! God the options!. . . and the costs. . . . .
43229
Post by: Ovion
Joey wrote:Maige wrote:
I'll just leave this here.
Nearly all of those icons are completely arbitrary. Is there a text version?
Allies in Text:
8926
Post by: BladeWalker
Objectives and Terrain that effect the battle based on who controls them is awesome. We have played Cities of Death style key buildings and strategems since it came out in our house. I like that all the expansions really did go into playtesting the new ideas for 6th and much of what we liked and kept playing with has made it into the official 6th rules. I think the Allies matrix looks good, I feel rewarded for collecting what I have so far and look forward to adding small units from other allied contingents to both my Imperial and Chaos collections.
Got an email saying my order was shipped late yesterday, not sure what that means but I have a servo skull perimeter set up on look out for a brown box truck... 
54121
Post by: Maige
Let's see how good my eyes are:
If a model has a force weapon with no further special rules, look at the model to see what type it is.
Sword or dagger = Force sword (S:user AP3)
Axe or halberd = Force Axe (S+1 AP2 Unwieldy)
Blunt, staff or mace = Force stave (S+2 AP4 Concussive)
All unusual force weapons with other rules are treated as swords + their rules. (Which means NFW are AP3 plus their usual modifiers)
I can't read the flyer page.
Also in regards to the matrix, it seems to match up with the one we already had except for the part about self allying. So no 3rd HQ <2000pt etc.
6646
Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
Ah, so there is the proof for no Battle brothers with you own book, which is nice. I'm sure they'll still have it for the doubles tournies where it is logical to have Orks/Orks etc, but for this allies system I'm glad its not there.
On a side note, I've looked in the first post and am either blind or its not there, but what does Heavy do, for vehicles?
11118
Post by: Thimn
So it looks like Tyranids are unable to even ally with themselves so all the people hoping for access to more elite slots will be more disappointed now.
Black Templars like the Tau and Eldar more then the Sisters of Battle, its very odd.... almost.... heretical!
25303
Post by: Grey elder
And the Saga of the 2+ armoured warrior was born.
Say hello to my little Friend
Draigo
Logan
Belial.
48139
Post by: BarBoBot
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Ah, so there is the proof for no Battle brothers with you own book, which is nice. I'm sure they'll still have it for the doubles tournies where it is logical to have Orks/Orks etc, but for this allies system I'm glad its not there.
On a side note, I've looked in the first post and am either blind or its not there, but what does Heavy do, for vehicles?
Why would a codex need to ally with its self?
At 2000 points the FOC doubles and the HQ and troop minimums double automatically
6646
Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
Yeah, but folks have been talking about people talking an extra HQ and the slots it gives in sub 2000pt lists, which seemed a bit 'working the system' but GW obviously thought of that..
241
Post by: Ahtman
BarBoBot wrote:Why would a codex need to ally with its self?
At 2000 points the FOC doubles and the HQ and troop minimums double automatically
Sometimes, and bear with me on this, sometimes people play games that are under 2000 points. 
18249
Post by: Charax
so if Power Weapons follow the same principles as Force Weapons, we can just model them however we want and use those rules? 'cos that's kinda funky, I can see myself doing a few Power Axe/Power Spear conversions
18080
Post by: Anpu42
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Yeah, but folks have been talking about people talking an extra HQ and the slots it gives in sub 2000pt lists, which seemed a bit 'working the system' but GW obviously thought of that..
But I do't need 8 Space Wolf HQs!
4884
Post by: Therion
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Yeah, but folks have been talking about people talking an extra HQ and the slots it gives in sub 2000pt lists, which seemed a bit 'working the system' but GW obviously thought of that..
Thought of that how? Any old army list that already used to take 2 HQ and 3 Troops simply gets to add one extra Elites, Fast Attack and Heavy Support slots in their single FoC if they ally with themselves.
48139
Post by: BarBoBot
Anpu42 wrote:Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Yeah, but folks have been talking about people talking an extra HQ and the slots it gives in sub 2000pt lists, which seemed a bit 'working the system' but GW obviously thought of that..
But I do't need 8 Space Wolf HQs!
Exactly!
2 FOC at less than 2000 points would have been a WAAC wet dream.
5760
Post by: Drunkspleen
Charax wrote:so if Power Weapons follow the same principles as Force Weapons, we can just model them however we want and use those rules? 'cos that's kinda funky, I can see myself doing a few Power Axe/Power Spear conversions
If you are cool with modelling for advantage, go for it. 
But in all seriousness, isn't that exactly what GW are promoting with these rules? Automatically Appended Next Post: Therion wrote:Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Yeah, but folks have been talking about people talking an extra HQ and the slots it gives in sub 2000pt lists, which seemed a bit 'working the system' but GW obviously thought of that..
Thought of that how? Any old army list that already used to take 2 HQ and 3 Troops simply gets to add one extra Elites, Fast Attack and Heavy Support slots in their single FoC if they ally with themselves.
But they aren't allowed to ally with themselves in accordance with the ally rules for 6th edition.
I've asked before, PLEASE will you stop spreading misinformation about the new rules, I would really appreciate it.
4884
Post by: Therion
Drunkspleen wrote:
I've asked before, PLEASE will you stop spreading misinformation about the new rules, I would really appreciate it.
I'm discussing the rumours. You're trolling. The persisting rumour is that you can ally with your own faction. If you can confirm otherwise do it with a rulebook scan. Otherwise just stop derailing the thread.
Besides, allying with your own faction isn't in any way more imbalanced than allying with another faction. In fact much less so.
54121
Post by: Maige
>>Charax
we can just model them however we want and use those rules?
It seems that way, I suppose it depends on the codex.
If it says for example that your sarge can take a Power/Force 'weapon', then I'm assuming you can pick from the three.
Looks like I'm gonna have to give my Hekatrix a spear from the Raider kit for termies....
6646
Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
Aye I'll admit my assumption that you can't ally with your own faction is based on the page scan from 6th on the previous page, which has nothing marked for the cross over for their own faction.
50692
Post by: Wrath
Therion wrote:Drunkspleen wrote:
I've asked before, PLEASE will you stop spreading misinformation about the new rules, I would really appreciate it.
I'm discussing the rumours. You're trolling. The persisting rumour is that you can ally with your own faction. If you can confirm otherwise do it with a rulebook scan. Otherwise just stop derailing the thread.
The allies matrix has in fact been posted, in this thread no less. go fetch.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
BarBoBot wrote:Anpu42 wrote:Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Yeah, but folks have been talking about people talking an extra HQ and the slots it gives in sub 2000pt lists, which seemed a bit 'working the system' but GW obviously thought of that..
But I do't need 8 Space Wolf HQs!
Exactly!
2 FOC at less than 2000 points would have been a WAAC wet dream.
Actually I think this is sort of what they are going for. I have the ability to field 8+ Space Wolf HQs model wise, but I would need 1,600 points to field all of the Characters as most of them sit around 200 points.
So a 2,000 point Space Wolf List could look like this
1. Logan
2. Njal
3. Björn
4. Ragnar + 2 Wolves
5. Ulric
6. Wolf Lord + 2 Wolves
7. Rune Priest
8. Wolf Pries
9. Grey Hunter Pack
10. Grey Hunter Pack
That’s 31 models total!
5760
Post by: Drunkspleen
Therion wrote:I'm discussing the rumours. You're trolling. The persisting rumour is that you can ally with your own faction. If you can confirm otherwise do it with a rulebook scan. Otherwise just stop derailing the thread.
Besides, allying with your own faction isn't in any way more imbalanced than allying with another faction. In fact much less so.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/3270/456706.page#4447214
18249
Post by: Charax
Drunkspleen wrote:Charax wrote:so if Power Weapons follow the same principles as Force Weapons, we can just model them however we want and use those rules? 'cos that's kinda funky, I can see myself doing a few Power Axe/Power Spear conversions
If you are cool with modelling for advantage, go for it.
But in all seriousness, isn't that exactly what GW are promoting with these rules?
If each variant of a Power Weapon isn't balanced against each other variant of a Power Weapon, that's surely the fault of the designers. If the rules let you freely choose between option X and option Y for no extra points, then X and Y need to be equal, otherwise you're just inviting the abandonment of option Y over option X.
You know what might be cool? Howling Banshee squads modelled to be carrying spears.
Anyway, this is all contingent on being able to freely choose between them, the rulebook/ FAQs may have something to say about that (although I doubt it, as the Chaos lord hadan Axe in the batrep, and the Spanish chaos FAQs are missing, which doesn't bode well for an update before the new chaos dex)
20774
Post by: pretre
Didn't the clip say if it isn't clearly one of the three, it is a sword?
4884
Post by: Therion
Drunkspleen wrote:Therion wrote:I'm discussing the rumours. You're trolling. The persisting rumour is that you can ally with your own faction. If you can confirm otherwise do it with a rulebook scan. Otherwise just stop derailing the thread.
Besides, allying with your own faction isn't in any way more imbalanced than allying with another faction. In fact much less so.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/3270/456706.page#4447214
I've seen that, and untill we see the rest of the allies rules we can only make assumptions. We've heard conflicting rumours both ways from supposedly reliable sources holding the rulebook. I'm still confused what your issue is with people discussing rumours that may or may not pan out to be true in a thread dedicated to discussing rumours.
5269
Post by: lord_blackfang
Never mind, he just won't let himself be wrong, lol. Off to the ignore list.
37755
Post by: Harriticus
Ovion wrote:Joey wrote:Maige wrote:
I'll just leave this here.
Nearly all of those icons are completely arbitrary. Is there a text version?
Allies in Text:
It's hilarious that we're supposed to believe that Space Marines find it easier to ally with Tau then Sisters of Battle. Xenos or the pious servants of the Emperor? Hmmm clearly the Astartes pick Xenos! Lord knows what GW is thinking with this gak.
And Daemons and Imperial Guard or Orks fighting side by side? Really?
54121
Post by: Maige
Pretre:
Didn't the clip say if it isn't clearly one of the three, it is a sword?
Any 'unusual' or 'unique' Force/Power CCWs are treated as a sword (AP3) plus whatever specific rules they have.
So a Nemesis Force Halberd will not be treated like a 'Force Axe' but rather an AP3 Force weapon with the +2Initiative and Nemesis.
40410
Post by: RegulusBlack
It's hilarious that we're supposed to believe that Space Marines find it easier to ally with Tau then Sisters of Battle. Xenos or the pious servants of the Emperor? Hmmm clearly the Astartes pick Xenos! Lord knows what GW is thinking with this gak.
i can see it from a certain perspective,
Tau: Ultramarine commander, our forces are here at your most dire time of need to stem the oncoming Tyrant FLeet from breaching your sanctum, and destroying McCragge. we are at your disposal and will do what ever it takes to see this battle come to a glorius victory for you and yours.
SOB: Prepare to viral bomb McCragge into nothing ness on my mark........
Ultramarine Commander: ummmmmmm, were going with this other guy.
44326
Post by: DeffDred
Rapid Fire weapons can now fire at target 24" away irregardless of moving or not.
41155
Post by: reaverX
Any word yet if flying MC can vector strike a flyer if they go "over" it or assault them period?
44333
Post by: junk
It's hilarious that we're supposed to believe that Space Marines find it easier to ally with Tau then Sisters of Battle. Xenos or the pious servants of the Emperor? Hmmm clearly the Astartes pick Xenos! Lord knows what GW is thinking with this gak.
The sisters are all 'burn!' and 'repent', the tau are like a tropical race of pot smoking buddhists...
When you've got to babysit an objective for months waiting for a drop ship to come resupply an outpost, who would you rather be hanging out with - a feminist nun motivated by a fanatical hatred, or a bunch of chillaxed fire warriors having krootox races for the greater good?
Edit: Ninja'd!
45703
Post by: Lynata
BarBoBot wrote:So tau are battle brothers with space marines...
And apparently the SoB like the Space Wolves more than Black Templars...
Who the warp wrote this? Looks almost completely arbitrary.
50731
Post by: Drakmord
Maige wrote:Pretre:
Didn't the clip say if it isn't clearly one of the three, it is a sword?
Any 'unusual' or 'unique' CCWs are treated as a sword (AP3) plus whatever specific rules they have.
So a Nemesis Force Halberd will not be treated like a 'Force Axe' but rather an AP3 Force weapon with the +2Initiative and Nemesis.
what about things like Voidblades or Gauntlets of Fire? it'd be nice for these to see some more use
20774
Post by: pretre
I'm guessing doctrinal differences between BT and SoB make for some problems.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Interesting. My battle conclave may get a mix of swords, axes and mauls now.
23534
Post by: Macok
junk wrote:It's hilarious that we're supposed to believe that Space Marines find it easier to ally with Tau then Sisters of Battle. Xenos or the pious servants of the Emperor? Hmmm clearly the Astartes pick Xenos! Lord knows what GW is thinking with this gak.
The sisters are all 'burn!' and 'repent', the tau are like a tropical race of pot smoking buddhists...
When you've got to babysit an objective for months waiting for a drop ship to come resupply an outpost, who would you rather be hanging out with - a feminist nun motivated by a fanatical hatred, or a bunch of chillaxed fire warriors having krootox races for the greater good?
Edit: Ninja'd!
Isn't it rumoured that Ultramarines will be "the bestest friends forever, love and kisses" with Tau? It was something about taking them under their personal protection.
37480
Post by: matphat
Not arbitrary. IoM gets quite a bit of favoritism, while several Xenos get varying levels of bad.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Lynata wrote:BarBoBot wrote:So tau are battle brothers with space marines...
And apparently the SoB like the Space Wolves more than Black Templars...
Who the warp wrote this? Looks almost completely arbitrary.
You can't see where the problems with the Sisters of Battle and Black Templars would come up?
The Sisters of Battle are very much of the opinion that the Ecclesiarchy is the ruling body of the Imperium, speaking the Emperor's Will directly.
The Black Templars are very much of the opinion that the Emperor has already made his will known, and anyone claiming to speak for him now is full of it.
27151
Post by: streamdragon
Macok wrote:junk wrote:It's hilarious that we're supposed to believe that Space Marines find it easier to ally with Tau then Sisters of Battle. Xenos or the pious servants of the Emperor? Hmmm clearly the Astartes pick Xenos! Lord knows what GW is thinking with this gak.
The sisters are all 'burn!' and 'repent', the tau are like a tropical race of pot smoking buddhists...
When you've got to babysit an objective for months waiting for a drop ship to come resupply an outpost, who would you rather be hanging out with - a feminist nun motivated by a fanatical hatred, or a bunch of chillaxed fire warriors having krootox races for the greater good?
Edit: Ninja'd!
Isn't it rumoured that Ultramarines will be "the bestest friends forever, love and kisses" with Tau? It was something about taking them under their personal protection.
I had heard but dismissed that rumor out of hand as just bad fan spank.
Now I see the error: I forgot the amount of fan spank that GW writers are allowed to get away with.
18249
Post by: Charax
well, Marines are all technically heretics, as they revere the Emperor not as a God, but as their father, so I can see why that would cause some friction with the Sororitas.
but really, more friction than with the Tau? yeesh
45703
Post by: Lynata
pretre wrote:I'm guessing doctrinal differences between BT and SoB make for some problems.
And the SW don't?
Black Templars: fanatic hardliners who hate psykers and have a history of joint operations together with the Sisters (Vinculus Crusade? Armageddon 3?)
Space Wolves: mutant heretics who kill Ecclesiarcly clerics for fun and only recently fought a bloody war against a Sororitas punitive expedition
I think someone at GW doesn't like reading up on faction history.
40410
Post by: RegulusBlack
I'm guessing doctrinal differences between BT and SoB make for some problems.
SOB: BURN THE HERETIC
BT: Yeah burn that heretic guy, so what are you doing later tonight?
SOB: BURNING HERETICS!!!!!!
BT: yeah i know but after, like the burning and stuff, you wanna go check out a movie or grab a coff...........
SOB: I SAID IM BURNING HERETICS!!!! GET IT DONE OR GET OUT OF MY WAY I HAVE SOME CLEANSING TO DO!!!!!!!!!!
BT: got it, got it okay have at it........jerk
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Macok wrote:junk wrote:It's hilarious that we're supposed to believe that Space Marines find it easier to ally with Tau then Sisters of Battle. Xenos or the pious servants of the Emperor? Hmmm clearly the Astartes pick Xenos! Lord knows what GW is thinking with this gak.
The sisters are all 'burn!' and 'repent', the tau are like a tropical race of pot smoking buddhists...
When you've got to babysit an objective for months waiting for a drop ship to come resupply an outpost, who would you rather be hanging out with - a feminist nun motivated by a fanatical hatred, or a bunch of chillaxed fire warriors having krootox races for the greater good?
Edit: Ninja'd!
Isn't it rumoured that Ultramarines will be "the bestest friends forever, love and kisses" with Tau? It was something about taking them under their personal protection.
It's "rumored" that it will be a fluff change; but the likelihood of such a thing being true is so far beyond the pale that discussing it is silly.
The Tau and Astartes have gotten on together in the past, when facing greater threats than themselves.
It's also worth noting that when you're discussing "Space Marines", you're discussing the myriad of Chapters which make up the "Codex: Space Marines" book....which is a ton of them.
27151
Post by: streamdragon
- Edited by insaniak. OT, and the language filter is there for a reason. Please don't circumvent it. -
181
Post by: gorgon
I'm guessing Sisters don't like to work with SM moreso than the other way around. I thought the old fluff had them seeing SM as borderline heretics for having their own cults, etc. and not buying into the divinity of the Emperor 100%.
And I thought the rumor was that Guilliman thought the Tau were the new chosen ones or something and ordered their protection accordingly. Obviously a retcon.
44333
Post by: junk
Macok wrote:junk wrote:It's hilarious that we're supposed to believe that Space Marines find it easier to ally with Tau then Sisters of Battle. Xenos or the pious servants of the Emperor? Hmmm clearly the Astartes pick Xenos! Lord knows what GW is thinking with this gak.
The sisters are all 'burn!' and 'repent', the tau are like a tropical race of pot smoking buddhists...
When you've got to babysit an objective for months waiting for a drop ship to come resupply an outpost, who would you rather be hanging out with - a feminist nun motivated by a fanatical hatred, or a bunch of chillaxed fire warriors having krootox races for the greater good?
Edit: Ninja'd!
Isn't it rumoured that Ultramarines will be "the bestest friends forever, love and kisses" with Tau? It was something about taking them under their personal protection.
Actually yeah, it turns out that this whole time, farsight has actually been Robute inside that armor, and the Tau are going to receive his geneseed and become Tau Ultramarines. Also, they're immune to chaos, they were the ones who actually defeated the c'tan for the necrons, and a couple fire warriors walked into the warp and carved their names into the hearts of daemons because they heard some grey knight did it. Also, they eat tyranids.
50832
Post by: Sigvatr
Just realized that Scarabs got a massive buff offense-wise against vehicles...they now hit on 3s and still reduce the armor by 1 on a 4+...and with the new glancing / hull point rules, any decent scarab squad that attacks a vehicle in melee immediately destroys it in one turn.
Quick mathhammer:
Let's say that squad gets to the enemy with 6 bases left. On charge, we're looking at 30 attacks. 20 attacks hit and 10 reduce the enemy armor which means that even if he has more than 10 back armor, he is going to lose the vehicle anyway due to S3 attacking rear armor.
Let's say that 3 bases make it. 15 attacks, 10 hit, 5 reduce the back armor to about 5-6 and we then get 5 rolls for pen - and we'll need a 2 or 3 to glance, 3 glances and we got a dead transporter. On average, with only 3 bases. Nomnomnom.
54121
Post by: Maige
Drakmord:
Voidblades etc
I forgot to add that it refers to Power and Force weapons only.
Something like a Voidblade is a completely different weapon with it's own unique rules (Rending I think?).
Basically there is no such thing as a vanilla Power/Force weapon anymore.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Lynata wrote:pretre wrote:I'm guessing doctrinal differences between BT and SoB make for some problems.
And the SW don't?
Black Templars: fanatic hardliners who hate psykers and have a history of joint operations together with the Sisters (Vinculus Crusade? Armageddon 3?)
Yeah, and the Sisters fought alongside the Space Wolves on Cadia.
Then immediately set to work hunting down The 13th Company.
What's your point?
Space Wolves: mutant heretics who kill Ecclesiarchy clerics for fun and only recently fought a bloody war against a Sororitas punitive expedition
I think someone at GW doesn't like reading up on faction history.
The Ecclesiarchy and Space Wolves have a long, long history of the Ecclesiarchy continually trying to purge the inhabitants of Fenris for "spirit worship" and whatever other crap they can try to get away with.
They always do it without any real support, and every time they get their butts handed to them.
You'd think they would get the message by now, since nobody ever tries to support them in it.
5386
Post by: sennacherib
The idea of allies was great 
GW putting the idea of allies into practice seems haphazard, poorly thought out (if thought out at all) and very badly executed.
And of course, this leeds to nids getting an even greater nerf.
31000
Post by: Thaylen
So let me get this straight, not only do my tau double in firepower, now they can take hammernators in a landraider with a chaplain to compensate for my lack of close combat ability??
That sounds too good to be true, my opponents will cry.
2548
Post by: jmurph
Lynata wrote:pretre wrote:I'm guessing doctrinal differences between BT and SoB make for some problems.
And the SW don't?
Black Templars: fanatic hardliners who hate psykers and have a history of joint operations together with the Sisters (Vinculus Crusade? Armageddon 3?)
Space Wolves: mutant heretics who kill Ecclesiarcly clerics for fun and only recently fought a bloody war against a Sororitas punitive expedition
I think someone at GW doesn't like reading up on faction history.
Nah, chicks dig beards 
31000
Post by: Thaylen
Nids got raped going from 4th to 5th. Looks like they spent 5th smoking a cigarette and are coming back for seconds on 6th edition.
I feel for any new nid players out there, their new dex is going to need to be quite powerful to keep up.
50731
Post by: Drakmord
Maige wrote:Drakmord:
Voidblades etc
I forgot to add that it refers to Power and Force weapons only.
Something like a Voidblade is a completely different weapon with it's own unique rules (Rending I think?).
Basically there is no such thing as a vanilla Power/Force weapon anymore.
Rending and Entropic Strike, yeah
oh well, thank you for answering!
18080
Post by: Anpu42
I just figured out an 8 HQ Space Wolf Legal [4 HQ, 2 Troops] List. This is built how I normally kit them out, including Sagas and who the HQs would be attached to, 2k is not enough.
Bjorn the Fell-Handed
Logan Grimnar, The Great Wolf
Njal Stormcaller, Lord of Tempests [In Runic Terminator Armor]
Ulrik the Slayer
Wolf Lord Ragnar Blackmane [2 Fenrisian Wolves]
Wolf Priest in Runic Armour
Grey Hunters Pack [x10]
Bran Redmaw (IA)
Wolf Guard Battle Leader in Power Armour [2 Fenrisian Wolves]
Grey Hunters Pack [x10]
Model Count: 32
2,205 points
23534
Post by: Macok
Kanluwen wrote:It's "rumored" that it will be a fluff change; but the likelihood of such a thing being true is so far beyond the pale that discussing it is silly.
The Tau and Astartes have gotten on together in the past, when facing greater threats than themselves.
It's also worth noting that when you're discussing "Space Marines", you're discussing the myriad of Chapters which make up the "Codex: Space Marines" book....which is a ton of them.
But I don't think that right now this rumour is far fetched and THAT silly. GW is trying to make alliances between armies. Maybe even the whole "Tau live because of plot-storm" will actually be changed to "Tau live because Ultramarines like them". And C: SM is C:Ultramarines and Friends. Possibility of Orks: IG alliance (despite Yarrick) and Orks:Tau (despite Farsight) show that if part of codex is good to go, a whole codex is good to go. C: SM is battle brothers with Tau because its significant part are Ultramarines.
junk wrote:Actually yeah, it turns out that this whole time, farsight has actually been Robute inside that armor, and the Tau are going to receive his geneseed and become Tau Ultramarines. Also, they're immune to chaos, they were the ones who actually defeated the c'tan for the necrons, and a couple fire warriors walked into the warp and carved their names into the hearts of daemons because they heard some grey knight did it. Also, they eat tyranids.
I'd watch that show
20650
Post by: Pyriel-
Space Wolves: mutant heretics who kill Ecclesiarcly clerics for fun and only recently fought a bloody war against a Sororitas punitive expedition
Dont remember that one, where can I find the fluff about pups fighting sisters?
30490
Post by: Mr Morden
Lynata wrote:pretre wrote:I'm guessing doctrinal differences between BT and SoB make for some problems.
And the SW don't?
Black Templars: fanatic hardliners who hate psykers and have a history of joint operations together with the Sisters (Vinculus Crusade? Armageddon 3?)
Space Wolves: mutant heretics who kill Ecclesiarcly clerics for fun and only recently fought a bloody war against a Sororitas punitive expedition
I think someone at GW doesn't like reading up on faction history.
Yeah I said that earlier - its stupid , the whole who allies with whom thing is poorly researched and written - unless major things have chnaged in the fluff since 5th Ed...............
I like ally rules but lets have them make some sense
In my opinion the only major issue the BT and SOB will have is each likely trying to prove who hates the enemy more and who is more faithful to Him!! Certainly alot less problems than allying with Vampires and Werewolves
20774
Post by: pretre
@Anpu: I like the 6 TWC Lords and 2 RP list a bit better. Automatically Appended Next Post: Pyriel- wrote:Space Wolves: mutant heretics who kill Ecclesiarcly clerics for fun and only recently fought a bloody war against a Sororitas punitive expedition
Dont remember that one, where can I find the fluff about pups fighting sisters?
SW Codex.
54121
Post by: Maige
To be honest I'm more confused by Guard's allies:
>Necron & Dark Eldar
Evil! Avoid them if you can.
>CSM & Daemons
Yeah they're tolerable......
I mean, it's not like Chaos was the bane of mankind or anything....
They'll hang out with anything as long as it isn't a Tyranid, which is ironic because Genestealer Cults would be the only thing that would make sense as a Nid ally.
20774
Post by: pretre
Mr Morden wrote:Yeah I said that earlier - its stupid , the whole who allies with whom thing is poorly researched and written - unless major things have chnaged in the fluff since 5th Ed...............
I like ally rules but lets have them make some sense
In my opinion the only major issue the BT and SOB will have is each likely trying to prove who hates the enemy more and who is more faithful to Him!! Certainly alot less problems than allying with Vampires and Werewolves
Or, you know, the doctrinal differences where the BT don't think he's god and the SoB do. That might come up a bit.
Also, yay, silly Vampire and Werewolf comments! Automatically Appended Next Post: Maige wrote:To be honest I'm more confused by Guard's allies:
>Necron & Dark Eldar
Evil! Avoid them if you can.
>CSM & Daemons
Yeah they're tolerable......
I mean, it's not like Chaos was the bane of mankind or anything....
They'll hang out with anything as long as it isn't a Tyranid, which is ironic because Genestealer Cults would be the only thing that would make sense as a Nid ally.
You seem to forget Traitor Guard.
8926
Post by: BladeWalker
Maige wrote:To be honest I'm more confused by Guard's allies:
>Necron & Dark Eldar
Evil! Avoid them if you can.
>CSM & Daemons
Yeah they're tolerable......
I mean, it's not like Chaos was the bane of mankind or anything....
They'll hang out with anything as long as it isn't a Tyranid, which is ironic because Genestealer Cults would be the only thing that would make sense as a Nid ally.
Traitor Guard for Chaos, Slave Guard for the Necrons and DE
Edit: 
44326
Post by: DeffDred
Kanluwen wrote:Lynata wrote:pretre wrote:I'm guessing doctrinal differences between BT and SoB make for some problems.
And the SW don't?
Black Templars: fanatic hardliners who hate psykers and have a history of joint operations together with the Sisters (Vinculus Crusade? Armageddon 3?)
Yeah, and the Sisters fought alongside the Space Wolves on Cadia.
Then immediately set to work hunting down The 13th Company.
What's your point?
Space Wolves: mutant heretics who kill Ecclesiarchy clerics for fun and only recently fought a bloody war against a Sororitas punitive expedition
I think someone at GW doesn't like reading up on faction history.
The Ecclesiarchy and Space Wolves have a long, long history of the Ecclesiarchy continually trying to purge the inhabitants of Fenris for "spirit worship" and whatever other crap they can try to get away with.
They always do it without any real support, and every time they get their butts handed to them.
You'd think they would get the message by now, since nobody ever tries to support them in it.
I thought the SW didn't like the Ecclesiarchy because they killed the inhabitants of Armaggedon. And Logan got all sad puppy on them.
17923
Post by: Asherian Command
Wow this means I can actually Represent Keltizfiel and the whole Angel Prince forces. O.O awesome.
Except no Chief Apothecary....
181
Post by: gorgon
Thaylen wrote:Nids got raped going from 4th to 5th. Looks like they spent 5th smoking a cigarette and are coming back for seconds on 6th edition.
I feel for any new nid players out there, their new dex is going to need to be quite powerful to keep up.
Actually, I think that hull points help Tyranids quite a bit. All their mid-strength shooting will now be able to strip hull points on light transports. A Dakkafex or Tyrant with two TL devs will, on average, wreck a Rhino or Razorback in one volley of shooting. And when stuff gets out of their metal boxes, things get easier for the Tyranids. The codex kills infantry pretty well...it's the metal boxes that create the problems for Tyranids, either by not opening or forcing the Tyranid player to devote too many resources to antivehicle in order to open them. I think it's a definite improvement that all the midstrength shooting can now serve double duty, at least against AV10/11. It might relieve a little of the pressure on the Elites slots, at least.
Edit: Even Termagants with Devourers will pretty good against AV10.
Light vehicles are going to be very fragile against the right kind of dakka.
20774
Post by: pretre
DeffDred wrote:I thought the SW didn't like the Ecclesiarchy because they killed the inhabitants of Armaggedon. And Logan got all sad puppy on them.
That's the inquisition. The Ecclesiarchy attacked Fenris.
36213
Post by: Earthbeard
Except you can't ally with the same army.
45703
Post by: Lynata
streamdragon wrote:Lynata wrote:Space Wolves: mutant heretics who kill Ecclesiarcly clerics for fun
wut
Maybe "fun" was a bit of exaggeration, but when the Ecclesiarchy came to visit Fenris to investigate rumors of genetic mutation and heretic practice within the Space Wolves Chapter, they were gunned down in front of the door. As a response to this, the aforementioned punitive expedition followed.
It's in the SW Codex.
Until seeing that chart I thought it was safe to say that the SW and the Ecclesiarchy aren't on the best terms right now.
gorgon wrote:I'm guessing Sisters don't like to work with SM moreso than the other way around. I thought the old fluff had them seeing SM as borderline heretics for having their own cults, etc. and not buying into the divinity of the Emperor 100%.
So-so. Both factions share a grudging respect for each others' skill at arms, but of course the Sisters seem to lean more towards the side of the Ecclesiarchy who thinks the Marines are abhumans. Individual Chapters are probably more respected when they (at least officially) stick to the Codex and display a great amount of loyalty to the Imperial Creed. It is also not that rare to see Marines and Sisters fighting alongside each other; depending on how the Marines fight and coordinate with the SoB, the Sisters' view on them may change to increased respect (or hostility).
I'm at a loss for why the SW aren't regarded as "worse" as most Marine Chapters, and why BT's aren't regarded as better, even if ever so slightly.
My own suggestion would have been:
SoB + Black Templars = Battle Brothers
SoB + Blood Angels = Desperate Allies
SoB + Dark Angels = Allies of Convenience
SoB + Dark Eldar = Come the Apocalypse
SoB + Eldar = Allies of Convenience
SoB + Grey Knights = Allies of Convenience
SoB + Imperial Guard = Battle Brothers
SoB + Necrons = Come the Apocalypse
SoB + Space Marines = Allies of Convenience
SoB + Space Wolves = Desperate Allies
SoB + Tau Empire = Desperate Allies
... and that's being generous about the xenos.
34060
Post by: Mohoc
>CSM & Daemons
Yeah they're tolerable......
I mean, it's not like Chaos was the bane of mankind or anything....
They'll hang out with anything as long as it isn't a Tyranid, which is ironic because Genestealer Cults would be the only thing that would make sense as a Nid ally.
You seem to forget Traitor Guard.
I am actually annoyed that Demons and CSM are not Battle Brothers with IG, but SM are.
20052
Post by: Arrathon
Not sure if this has been said or not (and if it has i do apologize) And not even sure if this is the place to ask but....So, everyone is getting fliers correct? well...where are the dark angels and Space wolves fliers? Will that Puddle jumper known as the Stormtalon be FAQ'd to them maybe in the Rule book or such? Just curious as i am a fan of Aircraft, no matter if it looks like a stack of legoblocks with guns glued to it.
34060
Post by: Mohoc
Arrathon wrote:Not sure if this has been said or not (and if it has i do apologize) And not even sure if this is the place to ask but....So, everyone is getting fliers correct? well...where are the dark angels and Space wolves fliers? Will that Puddle jumper known as the Stormtalon be FAQ'd to them maybe in the Rule book or such? Just curious as i am a fan of Aircraft, no matter if it looks like a stack of legoblocks with guns glued to it.
Allies are your friends
25927
Post by: Thunderfrog
Sooo.. I see people continuously mentioning Fire Warriors double tapping at 30 inches. How? Especially considering the guy with a book has posted this: Shooting Phase
- Rapid Fire weapons can now fire at target 24" away irregardless of moving or not. (or choose to fire twice at target 12" away)
Which for anyone not a marine pretty much means move and shoot once at full range or move/standstill and shoot twice at half range. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/3120/456706.page
20774
Post by: pretre
Mohoc wrote:Allies are your friends
Literally?
53251
Post by: xole
Mohoc wrote:
>CSM & Daemons
Yeah they're tolerable......
I mean, it's not like Chaos was the bane of mankind or anything....
They'll hang out with anything as long as it isn't a Tyranid, which is ironic because Genestealer Cults would be the only thing that would make sense as a Nid ally.
You seem to forget Traitor Guard.
I am actually annoyed that Demons and CSM are not Battle Brothers with IG, but SM are.
Can someone point me to the completely accurate, one hundred percent certain allies chart everyone seems to know about? because all I know about is what was on GW's website.
34060
Post by: Mohoc
pretre wrote:Mohoc wrote:Allies are your friends
Literally?
Only if you give them beer and pretzels. In the case of Space Wolfs though you need a brewery as your fortification slot.
20052
Post by: Arrathon
Mohoc wrote:Arrathon wrote:Not sure if this has been said or not (and if it has i do apologize) And not even sure if this is the place to ask but....So, everyone is getting fliers correct? well...where are the dark angels and Space wolves fliers? Will that Puddle jumper known as the Stormtalon be FAQ'd to them maybe in the Rule book or such? Just curious as i am a fan of Aircraft, no matter if it looks like a stack of legoblocks with guns glued to it.
Allies are your friends
That's what i figured, but was hoping otherwise. Guess i'll find a way to squeeze one of two things. Crowe, purifiers, and a stormraven. Or a Chappy, Death company, and a stormraven.
14126
Post by: morgendonner
Well looking at the final Allies list, I'm not so worried about it anymore. I think a few armies will benefit from it, but most simply won't care. The extra FOC slots should be great to help out some armies that are force org starved like Eldar or Nids.
The main way I see allies being used is to put Hydras into armies that are lacking in anti-air or other little patchups.
45703
Post by: Lynata
xole wrote:Can someone point me to the completely accurate, one hundred percent certain allies chart everyone seems to know about? because all I know about is what was on GW's website.
There you go, sir: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/3270/456706.page#4447214
54121
Post by: Maige
RE: Traitor Guard
Well no I didn't forget, but isn't there a problem here?
Traitor guard are their own thing; there is a fundamental difference.
'Imperial Guard' doesn't just hang out with Chaos, following this logic we could also argue for Genestealer Cult or anything that fundamentally changes the army fluff.
Unless GW are encouraging us to convert and Proxy.....
I like the idea of Iron Warriors I suppose.
20774
Post by: pretre
GW has always encouraged converting and counts as.
15076
Post by: fire4effekt
Those templates are terribley hideous.
45703
Post by: Lynata
Maige wrote:or anything that fundamentally changes the army fluff.
What, you mean like my Repentias teaming up with a bunch of DE Wyches?
53251
Post by: xole
Thank you.
Though, my zombie guard is sad now. Apparently we're only acquaintances with nurgle.
42223
Post by: htj
xole wrote:
Thank you.
Though, my zombie guard is sad now. Apparently we're only acquaintances with nurgle.
That's OK, Papa Nurgle loves you.
38176
Post by: Griever
Thaylen wrote:So let me get this straight, not only do my tau double in firepower, now they can take hammernators in a landraider with a chaplain to compensate for my lack of close combat ability??
That sounds too good to be true, my opponents will cry.
I will cry because it's beyond stupid.
Try to make up some fluff that explains why your Tau army has a land raider full of terminators just permanently hanging out with them, running around and possible killing other space marines/loyal imperial guard, etc.
I'm hoping people will attempt to use common sense when taking advantage of the allies rules.
I for one am looking forward to using real Daemons in a C: SM army. I can actually make a word bearers army the semi-makes sense! And Alpha Legion as well.
4884
Post by: Therion
Do we have a confirmation on how relentless works for all weapon types?
The first post in this thread still states the older rumour from Heresy Online that for rapid fire weapons it gives an extra shot to both the short and the long range.
30490
Post by: Mr Morden
Maige wrote:RE: Traitor Guard
Well no I didn't forget, but isn't there a problem here?
Traitor guard are their own thing; there is a fundamental difference.
'Imperial Guard' doesn't just hang out with Chaos, following this logic we could also argue for Genestealer Cult or anything that fundamentally changes the army fluff.
Unless GW are encouraging us to convert and Proxy.....
I like the idea of Iron Warriors I suppose.
Allowing Guard to Ally with Chaos gives you Traitor Guard without having to have a specific Codex - and yes Genestealer Cults should be in to allow Genestealer/Guard formations - thats not a change in fluff - thats acknowledging and following the fluff.
As has been noted - GW like you to convert and proxy - esp if you are buying new models to do so
Once the book is out hopefully GW wil sort out the mess
45703
Post by: Lynata
xole wrote:Though, my zombie guard is sad now. Apparently we're only acquaintances with nurgle.
It's a bit silly. Obviously, GW went out of their way to make some fluffwise ridiculous combinations possible. The way the chart looks like right now, they may as well have went all the way and allowed everybody to ally with everyone. Sorry, but finding a cop-out excuse for SoB teaming up with Necrons is no harder than finding one for IG and 'nids or whatever.
I mean, I suppose they could have done this for balance reasons, but from looking at the possible combinations it still feels largely random. 
38176
Post by: Griever
Thunderfrog wrote:Sooo.. I see people continuously mentioning Fire Warriors double tapping at 30 inches.
How? Especially considering the guy with a book has posted this: Shooting Phase
- Rapid Fire weapons can now fire at target 24" away irregardless of moving or not. (or choose to fire twice at target 12" away)
Which for anyone not a marine pretty much means move and shoot once at full range or move/standstill and shoot twice at half range.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/3120/456706.page
There was an earlier rumor about possible double tapping at max range if you stand still. This has been corrected but some people haven't yet realized it.
51131
Post by: Dytalus
Lynata wrote:I'm at a loss for why the SW aren't regarded as "worse" as most Marine Chapters, and why BT's aren't regarded as better, even if ever so slightly.
IIRC, the Imperial Lords over on Terra dislike the BT. They see them as a loose cannon of sorts, I can't remember the exact term used and my BT Codex is in the attic somewhere, lost to the dusts of time. Tbh, it always seemed to me like the only chapters actually liked by the Imperium are the ones from C: SM and none of the expansions.
28315
Post by: GalacticDefender
Nobody finds it wierd that Imperial Guard can ally with Chaos Daemons?! Or did GW just do that to accomodate people who play traitor guard?
38176
Post by: Griever
Lynata wrote:xole wrote:Though, my zombie guard is sad now. Apparently we're only acquaintances with nurgle.
It's a bit silly. Obviously, GW went out of their way to make some fluffwise ridiculous combinations possible. The way the chart looks like right now, they may as well have went all the way and allowed everybody to ally with everyone. Sorry, but finding a cop-out excuse for SoB teaming up with Necrons is no harder than finding one for IG and 'nids or whatever.
I mean, I suppose they could have done this for balance reasons, but from looking at the possible combinations it still feels largely random.
Yup, Tau best friends with Space Marines but apparently Chaos Daemons and Chaos Space marines not so much. Also, Dark Eldar BFFs with regular eldar.
54121
Post by: Maige
Mr Morden: thats not a change in fluff - thats acknowledging and following the fluff.
Then what the hell is Necrons + GK supposed to represent?
A cheesy Matt Ward wet dream?
38176
Post by: Griever
GalacticDefender wrote:Nobody finds it wierd that Imperial Guard can ally with Chaos Daemons?! Or did GW just do that to accomodate people who play traitor guard?
Bingo. I know I'm going to take full advantage of this. I have an IG/Daemons/ CSM force that can all inter ally with each other which will make having multiple armies even more fun.
I'll just to to try and resist slapping people who seek to take advantage of the more ridiculous things the chart allows.
30490
Post by: Mr Morden
The Black Templars are better regarded than some other Chapters - Dark Angels and Space Wolves for instance. The main concern about the BT is the size of the Chapter but the Codex states that given their fanatical devotion and lack of "incidents" like the SW etc its usually ignored
And yes IG/Deamons does make sense to allow for Traitor Guard without buying Imperial Armour
Oh and does anyone know if Imperial Armour is now official rules same as with WFB - hope so
Dark Eldar do assist Eldar in the Codex - saving Iyanden in fact.
Oh and course whatever cheesy combination one player can come up with - your opponent can do the same...........
181
Post by: gorgon
Lynata wrote: I mean, I suppose they could have done this for balance reasons, but from looking at the possible combinations it still feels largely random.
I hazard to guess there are some kind of sales considerations that influenced the table. Dunno what they are exactly and don't feel like pondering it. But it's definitely a "follow the money" kind of edition change, and I think it probably applies here in some way too.
45703
Post by: Lynata
Dytalus wrote:IIRC, the Imperial rules over on Terra dislike the BT. They see them as a loose cannon of sorts, I can't remember the exact term used and my BT Codex is in the attic somewhere, lost to the dusts of time. Tbh, it always seemed to me like the only chapters actually liked by the Imperium are the ones from C:SM and none of the expansions.
Hmm, if you happen to find it, I'd appreciate if you could shoot me a PM.
I only have the 3E BT Codex, and from the stuff in there the Black Templars looked pretty amiable from a SoB PoV, especially since we've heard of a lot of joint ops but never seen them having trouble with each other, be it with words or arms. 
In the end, I'm largely just confused that the SW being troublemakers is once again forgotten. It's as if the entire Imperium is mindwiped every 100 years to forget what the Wolves keep on doing all the time. Your idea of just lumping all non-vanilla SM Codices into "Desperate Allies" and making Vanilla SM "Allies of Convenience" (if that's what you were aiming at) sounds reasonable, too, I guess.
25927
Post by: Thunderfrog
Therion wrote:Do we have a confirmation on how relentless works for all weapon types?
The first post in this thread still states the older rumour from Heresy Online that for rapid fire weapons it gives an extra shot to both the short and the long range.
Yes. It's somewhere between pages 105-and now. I think it's address it both Rattmans reading from his book and the third round of confirmations from the Reddit guy. Happy hunting.
51131
Post by: Dytalus
Maige wrote:Mr Morden: thats not a change in fluff - thats acknowledging and following the fluff.
Then what the hell is Necrons + GK supposed to represent?
A cheesy Matt Ward wet dream?
Necrons and GK already have an interaction, since it's heavily hinted that the Necrons gave the GK their Tesseract Labyrinth things.
31261
Post by: Blood Lord Soldado
I think it's more up to the player to make the connection of why your 2 forces are allied. Like they do at most team events that allow you to play any 2 forces on the same side.
GW just gave everyone to Ward up the fluff.
Except Nids... F those guys....
18080
Post by: Anpu42
I think the worse I am going to do is:
Add a Commissar, and a Veteran Squad to give my Space Wolves a Leman Russ Squadron
Add a Harlequin Troop the My Guard or Grey Knights
Add some Grey Knights to my Dark Angels.
Adding a Inquisitor to my Guard.
My most Blatant will most likely is being able to have Shrike lead my Blood Angels Honor Guard [with Jump Packs and Lighting Claws]
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Maige wrote:Mr Morden: thats not a change in fluff - thats acknowledging and following the fluff.
Then what the hell is Necrons + GK supposed to represent?
A cheesy Matt Ward wet dream?
Allies of Convenience.
It means they are not friends, but they have a common foe.
Y'know how Necrons hate the Warp and all?
30490
Post by: Mr Morden
I don't think there is a more modern BT Codex and that is as you say they are fanatical devotees of the God Emperor and so get on very well with the SOB
The present SM codex just says that the BT are fiercely independant and uncaring of what others think - it also reminds that the BT form their own brotherhood with their prgenitor Chapter - the Imperial Fists and the others descended from them.
The Space Wolves are just as independant but are regarded with much more suspciion by many more parties
43578
Post by: A Town Called Malus
Kanluwen wrote:Maige wrote:Mr Morden: thats not a change in fluff - thats acknowledging and following the fluff.
Then what the hell is Necrons + GK supposed to represent?
A cheesy Matt Ward wet dream?
Allies of Convenience. It means they are not friends, but they have a common foe. Y'know how Necrons hate the Warp and all?
They're not gonna be a fan of Draigo then are they? Or an army of psykers, considering that psykers draw their power directly from the warp.
44067
Post by: DarkStarSabre
Griever wrote:I'm hoping people will attempt to use common sense when taking advantage of the allies rules.
Here's to hoping. Still rather annoyed about Tyranids being left in the cold while everyone else gets snugglebuddies.
I wanted my cults.
Or my Ork pit-beasts.
Or my nurgle possessed Hive Ship that got lost in the warp....
54121
Post by: Maige
OK.......
Eldar and Templars?
I'm only going to focus on AOC that seem contradictory.
45703
Post by: Lynata
DarkStarSabre wrote:Here's to hoping. Still rather annoyed about Tyranids being left in the cold while everyone else gets snugglebuddies.
I have a feeling that loooots of clubs and gaming groups might discard this nonsensical randomness and come up with their own allies charts, or simply allow everyone to ally with anyone as long as the player can make up an explanation.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
A Town Called Malus wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Maige wrote:Mr Morden: thats not a change in fluff - thats acknowledging and following the fluff.
Then what the hell is Necrons + GK supposed to represent?
A cheesy Matt Ward wet dream?
Allies of Convenience.
It means they are not friends, but they have a common foe.
Y'know how Necrons hate the Warp and all?
They're not gonna be a fan of Draigo then are they? Or an army of psykers, considering that psykers draw their power directly from the warp.
The "oldcrons" wouldn't have been, since they were mindless drones and one of the single most boring ideas ever.
The "newcrons" have a level of intellect where one can assume they would look past the simple fact that "They draw power from the Warp!" and appreciate the irony of using the foe's weapon against them.
Maige wrote:OK.......
Eldar and Templars?
I'm only going to focus on AOC that seem contradictory.
You know who the Eldar are, right?
And how they operate?
They manipulate events to ensure that everything converges just right for their engagements.
The likelihood of the Eldar being present at a battle where the Black Templars are as well, with the Eldar letting the Templars soak up the brunt of the casualties while the Eldar accomplish their goals is completely within reason.
34060
Post by: Mohoc
I think that Nids, in a lot of gaming clubs will get all other races as desperate allies.
30490
Post by: Mr Morden
Lynata wrote:DarkStarSabre wrote:Here's to hoping. Still rather annoyed about Tyranids being left in the cold while everyone else gets snugglebuddies.
I have a feeling that loooots of clubs and gaming groups might discard this nonsensical randomness and come up with their own allies charts, or simply allow everyone to ally with anyone as long as the player can make up an explanation.
That would seem the sensible thing to do.............
25580
Post by: Maelstrom808
I personally think the Necrons/Grey Knights brofist came about from a misinterpretation of the exchange between Valeria and Trazyn.
123
Post by: Alpharius
Hard to see how Tyranids would ally with anyone, no matter what the circumstances.
The only one that would make any sense is the aforementioned IG/Genestealer Cult.
I think we'll see that reintroduced via WD eventually.
I hope!
54121
Post by: Maige
>Kanluwen
But they are convenient allies, not desperate.
I can somewhat accept that scenario under desperation like all the others but AOC implies that they are on reasonable terms with each other.
BT should despise everything that Eldar represent.
45703
Post by: Lynata
Kanluwen wrote:The likelihood of the Eldar being present at a battle where the Black Templars are as well, with the Eldar letting the Templars soak up the brunt of the casualties while the Eldar accomplish their goals is completely within reason.
And of course the Black Templars would completely ignore these unexpected "reinforcements" rather than either realizing they are being played or regarding them as a second hostile force, possibly allied with the enemy, obviously allied if the enemy is another Eldar force.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.
Some things should simply be left unexplained. Or accepted to be what they are. Namely out-of-character.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Mr Morden wrote:Lynata wrote:DarkStarSabre wrote:Here's to hoping. Still rather annoyed about Tyranids being left in the cold while everyone else gets snugglebuddies.
I have a feeling that loooots of clubs and gaming groups might discard this nonsensical randomness and come up with their own allies charts, or simply allow everyone to ally with anyone as long as the player can make up an explanation.
That would seem the sensible thing to do.............
Or that's why you have the label "Come the Apocalypse".
Having Tyranids controlling Guard, etc in Apocalypse matches seems perfectly acceptable.
At that point, the world would be in such utter anarchy that the likelihood of Tyranid controlled forces being present is high enough that it's deemed "fluffy".
30490
Post by: Mr Morden
Agreed but the chart seems to be very random as has been mentioned - lets hope it will evolve / be faqed
14126
Post by: morgendonner
May have been posted but Rixitotal posted his first impressions after playing a couple games in 6th:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/vn19n/first_6th_game_impressions_and_i_was_wrong_about/
45703
Post by: Lynata
Kanluwen wrote:Having Tyranids controlling Guard, etc in Apocalypse matches seems perfectly acceptable.
At that point, the world would be in such utter anarchy that the likelihood of Tyranid controlled forces being present is high enough that it's deemed "fluffy".
Given the previous fluff on Genestealer infiltration, some people are just wondering why you wouldn't regard it as "fluffy" before, meaning in normal non- Apoc games.
Are you honestly defending the randomness of these combinations?
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Lynata wrote:Kanluwen wrote:The likelihood of the Eldar being present at a battle where the Black Templars are as well, with the Eldar letting the Templars soak up the brunt of the casualties while the Eldar accomplish their goals is completely within reason.
And of course the Black Templars would completely ignore these unexpected "reinforcements" rather than either realizing they are being played or regarding them as a second hostile force, possibly allied with the enemy, obviously allied if the enemy is another Eldar force.
Who says they're having any contact at all?
The Eldar are quite well-known for their tactics in manipulation and subterfuge. It's entirely believable that the Eldar could use the Black Templars as a diversion while never coming into engagement range of the Templars during the fighting.
44067
Post by: DarkStarSabre
Alpharius wrote:Hard to see how Tyranids would ally with anyone, no matter what the circumstances.
The only one that would make any sense is the aforementioned IG/Genestealer Cult.
I think we'll see that reintroduced via WD eventually.
I hope!
We've all been hoping since 3rd edition came out. 3 editions later, still no sign. And yet the Black Library fiction still references the cults on a regular basis.
And don't forget...Rogue Trader 'nids have Mind Slave units - which let them field Orks, Eldar, SMs and IG.
In addition there's the Cult aspects....
And even suitable cases of odder alliances - Inquisitors diverting the high fleets, Dark Eldar using them as 'cover' for their own raids....
43578
Post by: A Town Called Malus
Kanluwen wrote:Lynata wrote:Kanluwen wrote:The likelihood of the Eldar being present at a battle where the Black Templars are as well, with the Eldar letting the Templars soak up the brunt of the casualties while the Eldar accomplish their goals is completely within reason.
And of course the Black Templars would completely ignore these unexpected "reinforcements" rather than either realizing they are being played or regarding them as a second hostile force, possibly allied with the enemy, obviously allied if the enemy is another Eldar force.
Who says they're having any contact at all?
The Eldar are quite well-known for their tactics in manipulation and subterfuge. It's entirely believable that the Eldar could use the Black Templars as a diversion while never coming into engagement range of the Templars during the fighting.
But that isn't what is being portrayed on the tabletop.
45703
Post by: Lynata
Kanluwen wrote:Who says they're having any contact at all?
The table and the way games of this magnitude are being played.
The funny thing is that it would actually make more sense in Apoc where they might actually have a chance of not seeing one another.
2764
Post by: AgeOfEgos
Maelstrom808 wrote:I personally think the Necrons/Grey Knights brofist came about from a misinterpretation of the exchange between Valeria and Trazyn.
Yeah, no doubt that was not a friendly exchange .
Add to the fact that in other blurbs in the book--she kills Trazyn (several times it would seem)---yet he still trolls her. Trazyn is the best part of the Cron book.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Lynata wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Having Tyranids controlling Guard, etc in Apocalypse matches seems perfectly acceptable.
At that point, the world would be in such utter anarchy that the likelihood of Tyranid controlled forces being present is high enough that it's deemed "fluffy".
Given the previous fluff on Genestealer infiltration, some people are just wondering why you wouldn't regard it as "fluffy" before.
Simply put?
Because not every Tyranid engagement is going to have "Genestealer Infiltrations" leading to the creation of cults. They're vanguard organisms, but they're not the only ones. The creation of a Genestealer cult requires a perfect storm of things to happen.
Most notably:
1) A Space Hulk or other vessel laden with Genestealers needs to come down on a planet with human settlements.
2) The planet has to have just the right amount of civilization for large numbers of people to go missing without any real thought being made as to the circumstances.
Are you honestly defending the randomness of these combinations?
Are you honestly unable to recognize the difference between "Allies of Convenience" and "Best Friends Forever"?
Automatically Appended Next Post: A Town Called Malus wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Lynata wrote:Kanluwen wrote:The likelihood of the Eldar being present at a battle where the Black Templars are as well, with the Eldar letting the Templars soak up the brunt of the casualties while the Eldar accomplish their goals is completely within reason.
And of course the Black Templars would completely ignore these unexpected "reinforcements" rather than either realizing they are being played or regarding them as a second hostile force, possibly allied with the enemy, obviously allied if the enemy is another Eldar force.
Who says they're having any contact at all?
The Eldar are quite well-known for their tactics in manipulation and subterfuge. It's entirely believable that the Eldar could use the Black Templars as a diversion while never coming into engagement range of the Templars during the fighting.
But that isn't what is being portrayed on the tabletop.
What's being portrayed on the tabletop is an abstract of actual measurements.
Unless you think, of course, that Basilisks can only fire the length of most tables.
56277
Post by: Eldarain
So there is "look out sir" rolls in close combat?
20774
Post by: pretre
Holy schnikes! I was wrong. Rangers and Pathfinders get AP1 on rolls to HIT of 5 or 6 respectively. And snipers can assign 6's.
Wow. Rangers are good now?
23534
Post by: Macok
So, Battle Brothers confer all the benefits? SC are good to go?
Suddenly Vulkan running around the whole galaxy and twin-linking everybody's melta weaponry?
How about non-BB and skills that affect enemies? Like RoW farseer in Ork horde or Necrons giving night fight in SW pack.
Anybody got confirmation on those two instances? (115 pages are a bit too much to dig through)
18009
Post by: rogueeyes
Has anyone even thought about how nids will try to fail instinctive behaviour tests in order to get rage and the rumored 2 attacks it gives?
Synapse be damned.
14126
Post by: morgendonner
Before their updated it, Vulkan running with Sisters was pretty common so that's nothing new.
30490
Post by: Mr Morden
Dytalus wrote:Maige wrote:Mr Morden: thats not a change in fluff - thats acknowledging and following the fluff.
Then what the hell is Necrons + GK supposed to represent?
A cheesy Matt Ward wet dream?
Necrons and GK already have an interaction, since it's heavily hinted that the Necrons gave the GK their Tesseract Labyrinth things.
I thought it was that Inquisitor Valeria (?) was sent one as a gift afer she tried to raid a Necron world? I can see however that the Necrons would be in favour of disrupting the influence of Chaos in the material world and so might attack daemonic incursions at the same time as Gk's did and ignore them as a secondary target
20774
Post by: pretre
rogueeyes wrote:Has anyone even thought about how nids will try to fail instinctive behaviour tests in order to get rage and the rumored 2 attacks it gives?
Synapse be damned.
Not a single person.
Nah, just messing with you. That's been hashed and rehashed. Automatically Appended Next Post: morgendonner wrote:Before their updated it, Vulkan running with Sisters was pretty common so that's nothing new.
Umm. Before they updated C: WH? You couldn't take Vulkan in an C: WH army.
43578
Post by: A Town Called Malus
Kanluwen wrote:Lynata wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Having Tyranids controlling Guard, etc in Apocalypse matches seems perfectly acceptable.
At that point, the world would be in such utter anarchy that the likelihood of Tyranid controlled forces being present is high enough that it's deemed "fluffy".
Given the previous fluff on Genestealer infiltration, some people are just wondering why you wouldn't regard it as "fluffy" before.
Simply put?
Because not every Tyranid engagement is going to have "Genestealer Infiltrations" leading to the creation of cults. They're vanguard organisms, but they're not the only ones. The creation of a Genestealer cult requires a perfect storm of things to happen.
Most notably:
1) A Space Hulk or other vessel laden with Genestealers needs to come down on a planet with human settlements.
2) The planet has to have just the right amount of civilization for large numbers of people to go missing without any real thought being made as to the circumstances.
A Genestealer infestation doesn't require them to make anyone disappear. They implant a spore into a living subject, erasing that persons memory of the event in the process. That person then goes on and later reproduces, creating a genestealer hybrid, which then later reproduces, creating more hybrids and repeat for several generations until there is a large infestation without anyone having had to go missing and not be found, slightly confused but otherwise in good health to an untrained eye.
As a lot of the population are kept in the dark about genestealers and their methods there would be a very good chance of the hybrids going undetected, unless an Inquisitor or experienced IG commander happened to be on the planet.
37480
Post by: matphat
Griever wrote:Thaylen wrote:So let me get this straight, not only do my tau double in firepower, now they can take hammernators in a landraider with a chaplain to compensate for my lack of close combat ability??
That sounds too good to be true, my opponents will cry.
I will cry because it's beyond stupid.
Try to make up some fluff that explains why your Tau army has a land raider full of terminators just permanently hanging out with them, running around and possible killing other space marines/loyal imperial guard, etc.
I'm hoping people will attempt to use common sense when taking advantage of the allies rules.
I for one am looking forward to using real Daemons in a C: SM army. I can actually make a word bearers army the semi-makes sense! And Alpha Legion as well.
BWWAHAHAHAHA! Since when does anyone bother with fluff when trying to kick your ass? Seriously? You are expecting that? ON any level? Oh...ohhh you poor, poor person.
23534
Post by: Macok
pretre wrote:Holy schnikes! I was wrong. Rangers and Pathfinders get AP1 on rolls to HIT of 5 or 6 respectively. And snipers can assign 6's.
Wow. Rangers are good now?
That's nothing. Rangers were at least not-the-worst.
If intercept allows to hit Fliers on 4+ along with 2+ glance (haywire) Swooping Hawks may have a use.. I mean hawks a decent unit? How crazy is that? 
33661
Post by: Mad4Minis
Griever wrote:
I'm hoping people will attempt to use common sense when taking advantage of the allies rules.
I think its fairly obvious GW doesnt care about fluff, story, (balanced & sensible game rules) as long as you are buying models.
I will say Im hugely amazed they didnt allow Tyranids to ally with IG as Genestealer cults. It would have sold them a bunch more IG.
14126
Post by: morgendonner
pretre wrote:Umm. Before they updated C:WH? You couldn't take Vulkan in an C:WH army.
You're right, but you could take Battle Sisters in a Vulkan army. You could take a Vulkan list and add in 0-1 HQ, 0-1 Elite, 0-2 Troops, and 0-1 Fast from Sisters. It even specifically mentions Salamanders as an army they can join.
45703
Post by: Lynata
Kanluwen wrote:Because not every Tyranid engagement is going to have "Genestealer Infiltrations" leading to the creation of cults.
It's common enough to be considered standard modus operandi. And even if it would be just a rare occurrence it should still be sufficient to allow this combination on the table, because I daresay it'd happen a lot more often than Necrons bro-fisting Space Marines.
Kanluwen wrote:Are you honestly unable to recognize the difference between "Allies of Convenience" and "Best Friends Forever"?
Are you honestly unable to recognize the difference between "allies of convenience" and "shoot on sight"?
Kanluwen wrote:What's being portrayed on the tabletop is an abstract of actual measurements.
Unless you think, of course, that Basilisks can only fire the length of most tables.
Abstract measurements or no, you have two armies moving into the same direction, towards the same objective, shooting at the same enemies. You really want to tell me that one of them isn't going to notice? Let alone that a game of 40k relies on the player coordinating all his minis actions, which translates to the board as these two armies coordinating their movements with each other.
It's also kinda funny that you are defending Eldar + GKs by stating they just won't see each other, but at the same time seem to claim that this cop-out would be utterly unapplicable if you swap the GKs for, say, Tyranids. You're argueing yourself into a hole.
I actually have a better idea for why GKs would work together with Eldar that does not rely on such loose argumentation, but I ain't gonna tell.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
A Town Called Malus wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Lynata wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Having Tyranids controlling Guard, etc in Apocalypse matches seems perfectly acceptable.
At that point, the world would be in such utter anarchy that the likelihood of Tyranid controlled forces being present is high enough that it's deemed "fluffy".
Given the previous fluff on Genestealer infiltration, some people are just wondering why you wouldn't regard it as "fluffy" before.
Simply put?
Because not every Tyranid engagement is going to have "Genestealer Infiltrations" leading to the creation of cults. They're vanguard organisms, but they're not the only ones. The creation of a Genestealer cult requires a perfect storm of things to happen.
Most notably:
1) A Space Hulk or other vessel laden with Genestealers needs to come down on a planet with human settlements.
2) The planet has to have just the right amount of civilization for large numbers of people to go missing without any real thought being made as to the circumstances.
A Genestealer infestation doesn't require them to make anyone disappear. They implant a spore into a living subject, erasing that persons memory of the event in the process. That person then goes on and later reproduces, creating a genestealer hybrid, which then later reproduces, creating more hybrids and repeat for several generations until there is a large infestation without anyone having had to go missing and not be found, slightly confused but otherwise in good health to an untrained eye.
As a lot of the population are kept in the dark about genestealers and their methods there would be a very good chance of the hybrids going undetected, unless an Inquisitor or experienced IG commander happened to be on the planet.
I'm aware of the process.
However, what you are neglecting is that the individuals who are "taken" do disappear. They effectively vanish for the period of gestation, as otherwise their behaviors are erratic and noticeable.
It has been detailed little, but there is a reason for it.
And also:
Hybrids at the early stages of a Genestealer infestation go undetected, down two or three generations (which is what would be required for the Genestealer infected to actually get enough of a power base to make a "Genestealer Army" feasible) they acquire more and more noticeable traits of the Genestealer parentage. At that point, however, there is enough control within societal structure that those who begin to notice something is amiss are pretty much boned.
20774
Post by: pretre
Macok wrote:pretre wrote:Holy schnikes! I was wrong. Rangers and Pathfinders get AP1 on rolls to HIT of 5 or 6 respectively. And snipers can assign 6's.
Wow. Rangers are good now?
That's nothing. Rangers were at least not-the-worst.
If intercept allows to hit Fliers on 4+ along with 2+ glance (haywire) Swooping Hawks may have a use.. I mean hawks a decent unit? How crazy is that?
My mind is blown. Warp Spiders don't suffer from AP - now. A unit of them could glance most vehicles to death and runaway pretty easy.
Codex: Eldar - "Not as bad as you think anymore"
52802
Post by: Goresaw
Macok wrote:pretre wrote:Holy schnikes! I was wrong. Rangers and Pathfinders get AP1 on rolls to HIT of 5 or 6 respectively. And snipers can assign 6's.
Wow. Rangers are good now?
That's nothing. Rangers were at least not-the-worst.
If intercept allows to hit Fliers on 4+ along with 2+ glance (haywire) Swooping Hawks may have a use.. I mean hawks a decent unit? How crazy is that?
Whoa, whoa. Lets not get crazy here. Next thing you'll be saying is that mandrakes aren't a total waste of space.
10578
Post by: Magc8Ball
A question from someone that's never played Planetstrike: are the various fortifications' sizes defined in the 6E (or the PS) rulebook, or is it another case of "use the GW model or guesstimate"? After reading the game review by the Reddit Guy I really like the idea of a Bastion for my Dark Reapers (who are always looking for a good place to hide), but I will also naturally be building an Eldar-themed structure for them. I'm just not sure what sort of dimensions I should be dealing with here.
Thanks!
20774
Post by: pretre
morgendonner wrote:pretre wrote:Umm. Before they updated C:WH? You couldn't take Vulkan in an C:WH army.
You're right, but you could take Battle Sisters in a Vulkan army. You could take a Vulkan list and add in 0-1 HQ, 0-1 Elite, 0-2 Troops, and 0-1 Fast from Sisters. It even specifically mentions Salamanders as an army they can join.
True. Never saw it happen, but oh well. SOB didn't have outstanding Elites or Troops in C: WH days, so it was a bum deal. If you could do it now? Heck yeah. Automatically Appended Next Post: Goresaw wrote:Whoa, whoa. Lets not get crazy here. Next thing you'll be saying is that mandrakes aren't a total waste of space.
Nah, they got worse.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Magc8Ball wrote:A question from someone that's never played Planetstrike: are the various fortifications' sizes defined in the 6E (or the PS) rulebook, or is it another case of "use the GW model or guesstimate"? After reading the game review by the Reddit Guy I really like the idea of a Bastion for my Dark Reapers (who are always looking for a good place to hide), but I will also naturally be building an Eldar-themed structure for them. I'm just not sure what sort of dimensions I should be dealing with here.
Thanks!
Using something somewhat similar to the footprint of the Bastion/Aegis Defense Lines, etc is a great way to start from.
You don't need to build it all exactly the same size, but using the "basics"(same heights and general dimensions) would seem like the best route to go from.
18249
Post by: Charax
Alpharius wrote:Hard to see how Tyranids would ally with anyone, no matter what the circumstances.
The only one that would make any sense is the aforementioned IG/Genestealer Cult.
I think we'll see that reintroduced via WD eventually.
I hope!
Why should IG get all the Genestealer cult fun? what about Orks and Eldar and Tau?
25580
Post by: Maelstrom808
Mr Morden wrote:Dytalus wrote:Maige wrote:Mr Morden: thats not a change in fluff - thats acknowledging and following the fluff.
Then what the hell is Necrons + GK supposed to represent?
A cheesy Matt Ward wet dream?
Necrons and GK already have an interaction, since it's heavily hinted that the Necrons gave the GK their Tesseract Labyrinth things.
I thought it was that Inquisitor Valeria (?) was sent one as a gift afer she tried to raid a Necron world? I can see however that the Necrons would be in favour of disrupting the influence of Chaos in the material world and so might attack daemonic incursions at the same time as Gk's did and ignore them as a secondary target
Basically Valeria invaded Trazyn's halls, big fight ensued. She escaped and he captured a bunch of her men and sent her the Tesserach Labyrinth as a f-you with a side of lulztrollface. Essentially he was sending it as a trap for her, but if she was smart enough to escape it's clutches (she obviously was), she could consider it a "gift" (basically showing how little of a threat he thinks her to be.) Someone in the GW office must have read that and not gotten the joke and though "Oh, they must be best buds!"
That's my take on the whole situation anyway.
It kind of makes my want to make a tiny little trollface mask to put on Trazyn now. like a cheap halloween mask
30490
Post by: Mr Morden
Kanluwen wrote:A Town Called Malus wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Lynata wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Having Tyranids controlling Guard, etc in Apocalypse matches seems perfectly acceptable.
At that point, the world would be in such utter anarchy that the likelihood of Tyranid controlled forces being present is high enough that it's deemed "fluffy".
Given the previous fluff on Genestealer infiltration, some people are just wondering why you wouldn't regard it as "fluffy" before.
Simply put?
Because not every Tyranid engagement is going to have "Genestealer Infiltrations" leading to the creation of cults. They're vanguard organisms, but they're not the only ones. The creation of a Genestealer cult requires a perfect storm of things to happen.
Most notably:
1) A Space Hulk or other vessel laden with Genestealers needs to come down on a planet with human settlements.
2) The planet has to have just the right amount of civilization for large numbers of people to go missing without any real thought being made as to the circumstances.
A Genestealer infestation doesn't require them to make anyone disappear. They implant a spore into a living subject, erasing that persons memory of the event in the process. That person then goes on and later reproduces, creating a genestealer hybrid, which then later reproduces, creating more hybrids and repeat for several generations until there is a large infestation without anyone having had to go missing and not be found, slightly confused but otherwise in good health to an untrained eye.
As a lot of the population are kept in the dark about genestealers and their methods there would be a very good chance of the hybrids going undetected, unless an Inquisitor or experienced IG commander happened to be on the planet.
I'm aware of the process.
However, what you are neglecting is that the individuals who are "taken" do disappear. They effectively vanish for the period of gestation, as otherwise their behaviors are erratic and noticeable.
It has been detailed little, but there is a reason for it.
And also:
Hybrids at the early stages of a Genestealer infestation go undetected, down two or three generations (which is what would be required for the Genestealer infected to actually get enough of a power base to make a "Genestealer Army" feasible) they acquire more and more noticeable traits of the Genestealer parentage. At that point, however, there is enough control within societal structure that those who begin to notice something is amiss are pretty much boned.
The main quesiton to me is is it any less likely than many of the other combinations that are possible.
42207
Post by: TheJoyDivision
Due to problems with the warp, the limited edition dice sets and the servo-skull tape measure - as shown in White Dwarf this month - have been delayed.
I was able to order Servo Skull tape measures when I placed my order Monday, and was told they would arrive Friday. Apparently they came back out of the warp. Such is the nature of Warp travel, time altering and such I guess.
44333
Post by: junk
Well, Necrons and Blood Angels NOT being battle brothers put an end to the fear of Sanguinary Warriors, 20 rapid firing necrons with FNP+RP+Relentless+Fearless...
20774
Post by: pretre
And hopefully all the stupid fething brofist jokes.
25580
Post by: Maelstrom808
pretre wrote:And hopefully all the stupid fething brofist jokes.
Oh I don't think you've seen the end of the brofist joke. Far from it. There's just a lot of far more juicy targets for it now
45703
Post by: Lynata
pretre wrote:And hopefully all the stupid fething brofist jokes.
I have a feeling these will only expand to other armies now. At least for the next couple months.
[edit] ninja'd!
20774
Post by: pretre
Lynata wrote:pretre wrote:And hopefully all the stupid fething brofist jokes.
I have a feeling these will only expand to other armies now. At least for the next couple months.
[edit] ninja'd!
At least it'll be something somewhat new. Each time someone posts it thinking their clever and original, the soul of humanity dies a little.
39666
Post by: GiraffeX
Any news of you being able to use Imperial Armour 40k stamped units as standard?
44333
Post by: junk
I'd still love to hear about:
Campaigns and custom scenarios
Specifics about CCWs like chainswords and choppas
Bloody deep strikes
Drop pod assault
44067
Post by: DarkStarSabre
rogueeyes wrote:Has anyone even thought about how nids will try to fail instinctive behaviour tests in order to get rage and the rumored 2 attacks it gives?
Synapse be damned.
Well, considering that No Retreat seems to have poofed, I think I'd prefer my never dying gaunt tarpits.
Any foot Tyrants however will be committing suicide straight off so the Tyrant Guard can go RAGE RAGE RAGE RENDING RAGE.
20774
Post by: pretre
junk wrote:Bloody deep strikes
They are like normal deep strikes but, you know, bloody.
37755
Post by: Harriticus
pretre wrote:And hopefully all the stupid fething brofist jokes.
Tau and Ultramarines or Daemons and IG brofisting is far, far worse.
Seriously I can't even wrap my ahead around Daemons and Guardsmen fighting together.
58169
Post by: FallenAfh
I see alot of people taking issue with the whole Space Marines/Tau battle brother thing as going against the fluff.
I'd like to point out the previous brouhaha over the Necron/Blood Angel alliance bit that would not have made sense before but is perfectly conceivable in the new fluff.
23534
Post by: Macok
pretre wrote: [...]
Codex: Eldar - "Not as bad as you think anymore"
Nah, it will still struggle. A big change will be needed. Footdar may be the way to go. If Serpents get the same amount of HPs as Rhinos, while being 3x the price; DAVU will loose a lot of it's strength. Holo-Falcons will be ridiculously easy to wreck. From broken resilient to laughably fragile during one book.
20774
Post by: pretre
Harriticus wrote:Seriously I can't even wrap my ahead around Daemons and Guardsmen fighting together.
Traitor ... wait for it, wait for it... guard Automatically Appended Next Post: Macok wrote:pretre wrote: [...]
Codex: Eldar - "Not as bad as you think anymore"
Nah, it will still struggle. A big change will be needed. Footdar may be the way to go. If Serpents get the same amount of HPs as Rhinos, while being 3x the price; DAVU will loose a lot of it's strength. Holo-Falcons will be ridiculously easy to wreck. From broken resilient to laughably fragile during one book.
Good thing I recently picked up a big footdar army. Muahahahaha
181
Post by: gorgon
Kanluwen wrote: And also:
Hybrids at the early stages of a Genestealer infestation go undetected, down two or three generations (which is what would be required for the Genestealer infected to actually get enough of a power base to make a "Genestealer Army" feasible) they acquire more and more noticeable traits of the Genestealer parentage. At that point, however, there is enough control within societal structure that those who begin to notice something is amiss are pretty much boned.
First gen Hybrids look very Genestealery. Late generation hybrids look almost like their parent race. It's those end-stage Hybrids that then give birth to Purestrains.
45703
Post by: Lynata
pretre wrote:They are like normal deep strikes but, you know, bloody.
Oh Emperor. We might actually use Dominica-pattern drop pods again, can't we? 
58169
Post by: FallenAfh
Harriticus wrote:pretre wrote:And hopefully all the stupid fething brofist jokes.
Tau and Ultramarines or Daemons and IG brofisting is far, far worse.
Seriously I can't even wrap my ahead around Daemons and Guardsmen fighting together.
Daemons are allies of convenience with IG, so no Battle Brother brofisting. Also Traitor Guard.
54504
Post by: quilava1
Wait, if DE can't take power fists, we have no more anti-termi :0
37755
Post by: Harriticus
pretre wrote:Harriticus wrote:Seriously I can't even wrap my ahead around Daemons and Guardsmen fighting together.
Traitor ... wait for it, wait for it... guard
They're not meant to be Traitor Guard. They're meant to be Imperial Guard. It doesn't say "Traitor Guard" or "Imperial Guard substituting as Traitor Guard", and a Traitor Guard representation would also have things such as marks of Chaos and what you. Until it says they're Traitor Guard in that situation, I'll say they're Imperial Guard.
Plus if that were the case they'd be Brothers in Arms, not Allies of Convenience. GW is meant to have us believe that if Tyranids invade a world, Daemons and Guardsmen would fight side by side against them.
38176
Post by: Griever
Harriticus wrote:pretre wrote:And hopefully all the stupid fething brofist jokes.
Tau and Ultramarines or Daemons and IG brofisting is far, far worse.
Seriously I can't even wrap my ahead around Daemons and Guardsmen fighting together.
Traitor guard, bro.
45703
Post by: Lynata
quilava1 wrote:Wait, if DE can't take power fists, we have no more anti-termi :0
Access to your ally's wargear comes in 7E. True story.
Harriticus wrote:Plus if that were the case they'd be Brothers in Arms, not Allies of Convenience. GW is meant to have us believe that if Tyranids invade a world, Daemons and Guardsmen would fight side by side against them.
This bit is true. If Traitor Guard allies with demons/ CSM they'd be Brothers in Arms. This "in-between" is actually less fluffy than either of the extremes (enemies of BFF).
Curiously, Eldar and Dark Eldar are Brothers in Arms. I'm assuming this refers to "Traitor Eldar", but why doesn't the same reasoning not hold true for Guard + Chaos?
37755
Post by: Harriticus
Evidence for Imperial Guard allying with Daemons:
1.) That's what it says
2.) No statement that the chart means anything other then what it says
3.) Lack of Chaos-affiliated rules for Guardsmen
4.) They're allies of convinence, not brothers in arms.
Evidence that the Imperial Guard allying with Daemons are meant to be Traitor Guard
1.) Assumption, because that's the only way it would make sense to us
But GW has been known to throw accepted fluff out the window (Necrons 5th Ed) so the above evidence is actually a fallacy.
20774
Post by: pretre
Lynata wrote:quilava1 wrote:Wait, if DE can't take power fists, we have no more anti-termi :0
Access to your ally's wargear comes in 7E. True story.
Incubi have +1 S PW, right? Those'll get FAQ'd to be Power Axes, I bet.
38176
Post by: Griever
Harriticus wrote:pretre wrote:Harriticus wrote:Seriously I can't even wrap my ahead around Daemons and Guardsmen fighting together.
Traitor ... wait for it, wait for it... guard
They're not meant to be Traitor Guard. They're meant to be Imperial Guard. It doesn't say "Traitor Guard" or "Imperial Guard substituting as Traitor Guard", and a Traitor Guard representation would also have things such as marks of Chaos and what you. Until it says they're Traitor Guard in that situation, I'll say they're Imperial Guard.
Plus if that were the case they'd be Brothers in Arms, not Allies of Convenience. GW is meant to have us believe that if Tyranids invade a world, Daemons and Guardsmen would fight side by side against them.
1) I think you're looking too deeply into the different designations
2) Now you're just making stuff up.
3) Why do you get to decide that Traitor guard would have marks of chaos? AFAIK, typical soldiers are too significant to recieve the blessing of the chaos gods
I flipped out about allies earlier on, but you're being a little bit ridiculous now. Daemons with human support in the form of cultists/tratiot guard is completely feasible, a well known piece of fluff, and has always been something people have done with IG. Hell, FW even makes models for traitor guard.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
quilava1 wrote:Wait, if DE can't take power fists, we have no more anti-termi :0
Yes, but don't you have accsess to buckets of rending weapons?
20774
Post by: pretre
Harriticus wrote:Evidence for Imperial Guard allying with Daemons:
1.) That's what it says
2.) No statement that the chart means anything other then what it says
3.) Lack of Chaos-affiliated rules for Guardsmen
4.) They're allies of convinence, not brothers in arms.
Evidence that the Imperial Guard allying with Daemons are meant to be Traitor Guard
1.) Assumption, because that's the only way it would make sense to us
CSB. Also, it may be allies of convenience simply as a 'balance' issue. I can imagine some interesting combos otherwise.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
pretre wrote:Harriticus wrote:Evidence for Imperial Guard allying with Daemons:
1.) That's what it says
2.) No statement that the chart means anything other then what it says
3.) Lack of Chaos-affiliated rules for Guardsmen
4.) They're allies of convinence, not brothers in arms.
Evidence that the Imperial Guard allying with Daemons are meant to be Traitor Guard
1.) Assumption, because that's the only way it would make sense to us
CSB. Also, it may be allies of convenience simply as a 'balance' issue. I can imagine some interesting combos otherwise.
Yes can you see Creed Giving "For the Honor of Cadia" to Korne Bazerkers
37755
Post by: Harriticus
Griever wrote:
1) I think you're looking too deeply into the different designations
I'm not, you're looking too deeply. I see the chart that says "Imperial Guard are allies with Daemons" and I see " GW is saying that Imperial Guard can ally with Daemons"
You on the other hand are looking more deeply into it, saying "they don't mean Imperial Guard (even though that's what the chart says), they mean Traitor Guard"
2) Now you're just making stuff up.
Where? I'm looking at what the chart says and nothing more
3) Why do you get to decide that Traitor guard would have marks of chaos? AFAIK, typical soldiers are too significant to recieve the blessing of the chaos gods
I think Traitor Guard would at least need some sort of representation that they're traitor guard, besides "well obviously that's what they mean" or "because I say so". Even if it just says "these guys are meant to be traitor guard" somewhere. Otherwise you're speculating, and it's Imperial Guard allying with Daemons, because that's what it says
I flipped out about allies earlier on, but you're being a little bit ridiculous now. Daemons with human support in the form of cultists/tratiot guard is completely feasible, a well known piece of fluff, and has always been something people have done with IG. Hell, FW even makes models for traitor guard.
It is feasible, and Forgeworld does make Traitor Guard models. However, it has not been said that the Imperial Guard are meant to be Traitor Guard, and the FW Traitor Guard forces have their own entirely separate ruleset.
Basically I'm not operating by assumption and faith. Yes, I would like that Traitor Guard can ally with Daemons and I would like that GW intends for the Imperial Guard to be Traitor Guard, but there's simply no evidence to support this.
Keep in mind we also accept that Tau can ally with Daemons, even though by all accounts Tau shouldn't even be able to see or sense them and vice versa. GW is not keeping this "fluffy"
50832
Post by: Sigvatr
pretre wrote:And hopefully all the stupid fething brofist jokes.
Huh? The guy who made the chart was simply unaware of a LOT of the different backgrounds and the Necron <-> BA mistake is just one example. We will play BA <-> Necrons as lvl 2 allies, mostly for balance reasons. On the FNP issue: playing Necron, sitting on an objective with the "give FNP near objective" commander trait...3+ armor save, 5+ FNP, 4+/5+ RP. Haha.
54504
Post by: quilava1
pretre wrote:Lynata wrote:quilava1 wrote:Wait, if DE can't take power fists, we have no more anti-termi :0
Access to your ally's wargear comes in 7E. True story.
Incubi have +1 S PW, right? Those'll get FAQ'd to be Power Axes, I bet.
doubt it :p and if they are, we lose i6 Xp Automatically Appended Next Post: Anpu42 wrote:quilava1 wrote:Wait, if DE can't take power fists, we have no more anti-termi :0
Yes, but don't you have accsess to buckets of rending weapons?
No, no we do not, just poison....
58169
Post by: FallenAfh
quilava1 wrote:pretre wrote:Lynata wrote:quilava1 wrote:Wait, if DE can't take power fists, we have no more anti-termi :0
Access to your ally's wargear comes in 7E. True story.
Incubi have +1 S PW, right? Those'll get FAQ'd to be Power Axes, I bet.
doubt it :p and if they are, we lose i6 Xp
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anpu42 wrote:quilava1 wrote:Wait, if DE can't take power fists, we have no more anti-termi :0
Yes, but don't you have accsess to buckets of rending weapons?
No, no we do not, just poison....
Harlys.
26519
Post by: xttz
quilava1 wrote:Wait, if DE can't take power fists, we have no more anti-termi :0
What about a Talos, with the newly buffed FNP that lets you use it against powerfists and enough initiative to strike before them? That, or the plethora of S8+ AP2 shooting weapons in your codex of course.
20774
Post by: pretre
quilava1 wrote: doubt it :p and if they are, we lose i6 Xp
Klaive = Power Axe
Demiklaive = User chooes Power Sword or Power Maul each round
But yeah, that'd suck about the Init.
27727
Post by: Bonde
Actually, the whole "Allies of Convenience" between Traitor Guard and Chaos makes some sense to me, because I don't think CSM or Daemons would give a flying feth about what their puny servants think of their battleplan, the renegades/cultists would probably just follow them into battle because of their dedication to the cause, hoping of getting closer to the gaze of the Ruinous Powers for just a second before their fagile lives are extinguished.
On the other hand, I don't think a Chaos Lord or Daemon Prince would listen one second to the orders from heretic Guard commander, even though he could be in control of a much larger army than their own. They would just roam around the battlefield, doing what ever they would feel like.
1406
Post by: Janthkin
Let's save the "my army was horribly nerfed" conversations for (at least) Saturday, when we have a more complete picture.
46751
Post by: Akroma06
Anpu42 wrote:quilava1 wrote:Wait, if DE can't take power fists, we have no more anti-termi :0
Yes, but don't you have accsess to buckets of rending weapons?
One unit that has to have a certain type of composition. This is the only thing making me not like 6th...that and structure points on vehicles...so raiders and venoms have what 1? So a lucky bolter wrecks the whole thing? If they have 2...ok. Incubi getting the ax treatment would be like taking...well an ax to them. The advantage of the DE is speed so reducing a unit to I 1 is a death sentance. Hence why you would see PGLs on Archons acompaning Incubi. The face is that if agonisers don't get AP2 or something equivilent then I know a very big DE army that will not be played for an edition. Only one charachter auto-ignores armor (Leltih) and she is stupid expensive. That and there is only one person who laughs at PW in the entire army and he too is stupid expensive. Then you are looking at about 1 and 1/2 venoms to kill 1 terminator. So to destroy a whole squad the entire rest of the army is unchecked. Then using DL is improbable so then other mech is ignored. Hmm...implosion missiles however...nope to expensive too. I'll find a way. Ooh Fire Dragons as allies gets plenty of AP1!
45703
Post by: Lynata
Anpu42 wrote:Yes can you see Creed Giving "For the Honor of Cadia" to Korne Bazerkers
To be fair, Cadian regiments falling to Chaos wouldn't be a new thing.
40k has always been 50% "make up your own stuff" - it's why they never bothered to enforce any sort of canon between the various novels and other books, at least according to Gav Thorpe. So when you have a guy who wants to play with a demonized IG regiment from a setting where Cadia has been successfully invaded by Chaos, he can now do so.
I still think they may have just as well went all the way, though. Some of the combinations possible now are pretty silly already, they may have just allowed anything now for all I care. Chaos Sisters makes more sense than SoB and Necrons; at least we had the former in a comic already.
Bonde wrote:Actually, the whole "Allies of Convenience" between Traitor Guard and Chaos makes some sense to me, because I don't think CSM or Daemons would give a flying feth about what their puny servants think of their battleplan, the renegades/cultists would probably just follow them into battle because of their dedication to the cause, hoping of getting closer to the gaze of the Ruinous Powers for just a second before their fagile lives are extinguished.
On the other hand, I don't think a Chaos Lord or Daemon Prince would listen one second to the orders from heretic Guard commander, even though he could be in control of a much larger army than their own. They would just roam around the battlefield, doing what ever they would feel like.
Tis true, but you could have used the "Brothers in Arms" rule to represent that, yes, the renegade/cultist leader is utterly devoted to that CSM, or that the CSM Captain is going to listen to the orders of his Daemon Prince.
14126
Post by: morgendonner
Harriticus wrote:It is feasible, and Forgeworld does make Traitor Guard models. However, it has not been said that the Imperial Guard are meant to be Traitor Guard, and the FW Traitor Guard forces have their own entirely separate ruleset.
Basically I'm not operating by assumption and faith. Yes, I would like that Traitor Guard can ally with Daemons and I would like that GW intends for the Imperial Guard to be Traitor Guard, but there's simply no evidence to support this.
Keep in mind we also accept that Tau can ally with Daemons, even though by all accounts Tau shouldn't even be able to see or sense them and vice versa. GW is not keeping this "fluffy"
Does this one chart irk you that badly? If you're going to be that serious about the fluff implications of the chart surely then you would agree that an IG army would not one day ally with daemons then a few weeks later ally with GK. Call them traitor guard, call them imperial guard. It doesn't matter, a codex is just a name. The CSM codex covers traitor marines which aren't true champions of chaos. The BA codex covers multiple successor chapters which have a wide range of beliefs. The GK codex itself has the possibility of fielding a radical inquisitor based army.
GW isn't saying that loyalist guardsmen will take up in arms with forces of chaos, they're saying that an army you can create by using codex: imperial guard could be used in conjunction with an army you can create with CD or CSM.
26672
Post by: Sephyr
pretre wrote:
Incubi have +1 S PW, right? Those'll get FAQ'd to be Power Axes, I bet.
If they strike at Ini 1 like axes, I'd rather they don't. Odds are no Incubi will be alive to swing it by then.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
Sephyr wrote:pretre wrote:
Incubi have +1 S PW, right? Those'll get FAQ'd to be Power Axes, I bet.
If they strike at Ini 1 like axes, I'd rather they don't. Odds are no Incubi will be alive to swing it by then.
When Fighting Terminators you are likely to run into two types
Tatical Terminators with Power/Chain Fist [Sarge has a Power Sword]
Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield [with some Lighting Claws]
Most Terminators will also be going on I1 also.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Lynata wrote:Anpu42 wrote:Yes can you see Creed Giving "For the Honor of Cadia" to Korne Bazerkers
To be fair, Cadian regiments falling to Chaos wouldn't be a new thing.
Yeah, actually it would.
Even when Chaos forces were on the planet during the 13th Black Crusade, the Traitor Guard regiments planetside were not made up of Cadians.
Cadian regiments don't turn. Maybe a few Cadians here and there will out of a regiment, but whole regiments going traitor is unheard of.
181
Post by: gorgon
Harriticus wrote:pretre wrote:Harriticus wrote:Seriously I can't even wrap my ahead around Daemons and Guardsmen fighting together.
Traitor ... wait for it, wait for it... guard
They're not meant to be Traitor Guard. They're meant to be Imperial Guard. It doesn't say "Traitor Guard" or "Imperial Guard substituting as Traitor Guard", and a Traitor Guard representation would also have things such as marks of Chaos and what you. Until it says they're Traitor Guard in that situation, I'll say they're Imperial Guard.
Plus if that were the case they'd be Brothers in Arms, not Allies of Convenience. GW is meant to have us believe that if Tyranids invade a world, Daemons and Guardsmen would fight side by side against them.
It's because this allies thing is done down fluffilogical lines. But not really. But it kinda is. Except not. Hope that clears it up.
18249
Post by: Charax
Anpu42 wrote:Sephyr wrote:pretre wrote:
Incubi have +1 S PW, right? Those'll get FAQ'd to be Power Axes, I bet.
If they strike at Ini 1 like axes, I'd rather they don't. Odds are no Incubi will be alive to swing it by then.
When Fighting Terminators you are likely to run into two types
Tatical Terminators with Power/Chain Fist [Sarge has a Power Sword]
Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield [with some Lighting Claws]
Most Terminators will also be going on I1 also.
Hello, I'd like to introduce you to somebody, his name is Mr ChaosTerminatorWithPowerWeapon
38176
Post by: Griever
Harriticus wrote:Griever wrote:
1) I think you're looking too deeply into the different designations
I'm not, you're looking too deeply. I see the chart that says "Imperial Guard are allies with Daemons" and I see " GW is saying that Imperial Guard can ally with Daemons"
You on the other hand are looking more deeply into it, saying "they don't mean Imperial Guard (even though that's what the chart says), they mean Traitor Guard"
2) Now you're just making stuff up.
Where? I'm looking at what the chart says and nothing more
3) Why do you get to decide that Traitor guard would have marks of chaos? AFAIK, typical soldiers are too significant to recieve the blessing of the chaos gods
I think Traitor Guard would at least need some sort of representation that they're traitor guard, besides "well obviously that's what they mean" or "because I say so". Even if it just says "these guys are meant to be traitor guard" somewhere. Otherwise you're speculating, and it's Imperial Guard allying with Daemons, because that's what it says
I flipped out about allies earlier on, but you're being a little bit ridiculous now. Daemons with human support in the form of cultists/tratiot guard is completely feasible, a well known piece of fluff, and has always been something people have done with IG. Hell, FW even makes models for traitor guard.
It is feasible, and Forgeworld does make Traitor Guard models. However, it has not been said that the Imperial Guard are meant to be Traitor Guard, and the FW Traitor Guard forces have their own entirely separate ruleset.
Basically I'm not operating by assumption and faith. Yes, I would like that Traitor Guard can ally with Daemons and I would like that GW intends for the Imperial Guard to be Traitor Guard, but there's simply no evidence to support this.
Keep in mind we also accept that Tau can ally with Daemons, even though by all accounts Tau shouldn't even be able to see or sense them and vice versa. GW is not keeping this "fluffy"
Trust me, I raged about this about 20 pages ago. I'm going to use the combinations that make sense to me (I'm going to make a Traitor Guard army with Daemon allies) and try not to strange the people who take a Land Raider full of terminators with their tau army, or somehow ally Daemons & Tau.
58169
Post by: FallenAfh
Griever wrote:
Keep in mind we also accept that Tau can ally with Daemons, even though by all accounts Tau shouldn't even be able to see or sense them and vice versa. GW is not keeping this "fluffy"
With the current fluff. Didn't the same people who leaked the allies rules also mention how Tau fluff would be changing? Its the same situation with Necrons and their new fluff.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
FallenAfh wrote:Griever wrote:
Keep in mind we also accept that Tau can ally with Daemons, even though by all accounts Tau shouldn't even be able to see or sense them and vice versa. GW is not keeping this "fluffy"
With the current fluff. Didn't the same people who leaked the allies rules also mention how Tau fluff would be changing? Its the same situation with Necrons and their new fluff.
The piece of "information" that Griever posted is incorrect and flawed.
The fact that Tau do not have psykers does not mean "they can't see or sense Daemons".
Daemons are not like Peter Pan. You don't have to believe in them for Daemons to fly away, wearing your innards as a hat.
All the fact that Tau do not have psykers means is that it is incredibly taxing for Daemons to attempt possession of a Tau host.
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
Keep in mind that the 6th edition rulebook not only changes rules, it also developes the background.
A previous thread on 6th edition first mentioned Tau and Ultramarines being brothers in arms because of changed background. The rumour stated that Ultramarines learned that Tau are immune to Chaos and essential to saving the Empire against Chaos. That's why Ultramarines took the task to protect the Tau and work together. Ultramarines do it out of a sense of duty, Tau do it because they are not interested in fighting humans without a reason. Makes sense. And makes future Chaos tau threads even more difficult
722
Post by: Kanluwen
That implies that the Tau were around when Guilleman was still alive; which is a massive retcon to Tau fluff.
49658
Post by: undertow
Harriticus wrote:Griever wrote:
1) I think you're looking too deeply into the different designations
I'm not, you're looking too deeply. I see the chart that says "Imperial Guard are allies with Daemons" and I see " GW is saying that Imperial Guard can ally with Daemons"
You on the other hand are looking more deeply into it, saying "they don't mean Imperial Guard (even though that's what the chart says), they mean Traitor Guard"
2) Now you're just making stuff up.
Where? I'm looking at what the chart says and nothing more
3) Why do you get to decide that Traitor guard would have marks of chaos? AFAIK, typical soldiers are too significant to recieve the blessing of the chaos gods
I think Traitor Guard would at least need some sort of representation that they're traitor guard, besides "well obviously that's what they mean" or "because I say so". Even if it just says "these guys are meant to be traitor guard" somewhere. Otherwise you're speculating, and it's Imperial Guard allying with Daemons, because that's what it says
I flipped out about allies earlier on, but you're being a little bit ridiculous now. Daemons with human support in the form of cultists/tratiot guard is completely feasible, a well known piece of fluff, and has always been something people have done with IG. Hell, FW even makes models for traitor guard.
It is feasible, and Forgeworld does make Traitor Guard models. However, it has not been said that the Imperial Guard are meant to be Traitor Guard, and the FW Traitor Guard forces have their own entirely separate ruleset.
Basically I'm not operating by assumption and faith. Yes, I would like that Traitor Guard can ally with Daemons and I would like that GW intends for the Imperial Guard to be Traitor Guard, but there's simply no evidence to support this.
Keep in mind we also accept that Tau can ally with Daemons, even though by all accounts Tau shouldn't even be able to see or sense them and vice versa. GW is not keeping this "fluffy"
I really don't see why so many of you have your panties all bunched up about who can ally with who, and why the fluff doesn't support that. You are so worried about the fluff for your armies but when the dice hit the table, the fluff goes away. You can have GK fighting GK, or SoB fighting SoB, who cares if one of them has a couple of units from another army with them. Is that 'fluffy'? If you're that concerned about fluff, there are many games you should just walk away from, as the 'fluff' would never allow such a battle to occur.
25247
Post by: N.I.B.
rogueeyes wrote:Has anyone even thought about how nids will try to fail instinctive behaviour tests in order to get rage and the rumored 2 attacks it gives?
Synapse be damned.
Yeah, you leave a unit of Raveners outside synapse to reap the awesome bonus of a single extra attack on the charge. Then two of them pop from a couple of Krak missiles since cover saves now suck. They fail morale check and run off the table.
Sounds like a great plan man.
58169
Post by: FallenAfh
Kanluwen wrote:That implies that the Tau were around when Guilleman was still alive; which is a massive retcon to Tau fluff.
IIRC the order came from the Emperor, not Guilleman, according to the leak.
38176
Post by: Griever
Kanluwen wrote:FallenAfh wrote:Griever wrote:
Keep in mind we also accept that Tau can ally with Daemons, even though by all accounts Tau shouldn't even be able to see or sense them and vice versa. GW is not keeping this "fluffy"
With the current fluff. Didn't the same people who leaked the allies rules also mention how Tau fluff would be changing? Its the same situation with Necrons and their new fluff.
The piece of "information" that Griever posted is incorrect and flawed.
The fact that Tau do not have psykers does not mean "they can't see or sense Daemons".
Daemons are not like Peter Pan. You don't have to believe in them for Daemons to fly away, wearing your innards as a hat.
All the fact that Tau do not have psykers means is that it is incredibly taxing for Daemons to attempt possession of a Tau host.
The hell? I never said that, I just quoted somebody who did.
58169
Post by: FallenAfh
Griever wrote:Kanluwen wrote:FallenAfh wrote:Griever wrote:
Keep in mind we also accept that Tau can ally with Daemons, even though by all accounts Tau shouldn't even be able to see or sense them and vice versa. GW is not keeping this "fluffy"
With the current fluff. Didn't the same people who leaked the allies rules also mention how Tau fluff would be changing? Its the same situation with Necrons and their new fluff.
The piece of "information" that Griever posted is incorrect and flawed.
The fact that Tau do not have psykers does not mean "they can't see or sense Daemons".
Daemons are not like Peter Pan. You don't have to believe in them for Daemons to fly away, wearing your innards as a hat.
All the fact that Tau do not have psykers means is that it is incredibly taxing for Daemons to attempt possession of a Tau host.
The hell? I never said that, I just quoted somebody who did.
My apologies, I think I accidentally screwed up with the quoting function.
14126
Post by: morgendonner
FallenAfh wrote:Kanluwen wrote:That implies that the Tau were around when Guilleman was still alive; which is a massive retcon to Tau fluff.
IIRC the order came from the Emperor, not Guilleman, according to the leak.
The book could go any direction with it, but I don't see why it would have to be from Guilleman. Why couldn't Calgar decide that?
54121
Post by: Maige
Still buttmad about DE CCW.
But I think I'm slowly coming to peace with 6th, I'll have my mind made up when the Erratas are done.
If they don't fix the Klaives/Agonizers/Huskblade then I'm going full Exodite mode: Min-Maxed Eldar+Dark Eldar, I'll become the worst TFG of all time.
I'll exploit psychic powers, spam rangers, darklight, dragons, splinters....whatever it takes.
I'll completely disregard the fluff. Buy what ever beasties I want from WHFB or even LOTR and make them count as Wraiths/Grotesques/Pain Engines/Beastmasters/Avatars whatever I feel like.
Ents and Dryads everywhere with laz0rs attached to their arms, making lore nerds cry.
It'll be like Wood Elves.........in space.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Griever wrote:Kanluwen wrote:FallenAfh wrote:Griever wrote:
Keep in mind we also accept that Tau can ally with Daemons, even though by all accounts Tau shouldn't even be able to see or sense them and vice versa. GW is not keeping this "fluffy"
With the current fluff. Didn't the same people who leaked the allies rules also mention how Tau fluff would be changing? Its the same situation with Necrons and their new fluff.
The piece of "information" that Griever posted is incorrect and flawed.
The fact that Tau do not have psykers does not mean "they can't see or sense Daemons".
Daemons are not like Peter Pan. You don't have to believe in them for Daemons to fly away, wearing your innards as a hat.
All the fact that Tau do not have psykers means is that it is incredibly taxing for Daemons to attempt possession of a Tau host.
The hell? I never said that, I just quoted somebody who did.
Well, whoever said it is silly!
4595
Post by: CaptainLoken
This will ruin the game for me. I play the game BECAUSE of the Fluff. Not because of the miniatures. Not because of the rules. I've played this game since Rogue Trader days BECAUSE of the Fluff.
Now, things have changed a LOT since those days, and for the better...mostly. Slaanesh running around with Khorne, simply because the Chaos Daemons Codex says they can, is pretty stupid. They were only enemies for 20+ years. Oh look, the Necrons do have personality...ugh...
But, now we are to believe that the Ultramarines are "Battle Brothers" with the Tau...because they are resistant to Chaos? Really?
"Hey guys...sorry about those crusades, and killing thousands of your troops, and destroying hundreds of your tanks. Oh yeah, and sorry for trying to exterminate your race simply because you are...well...different...than us. But, you see, there are these REALLY bad guys that we need your help with..."
Please. It's nothing more than an amazingly bad attempt for GW to sell more miniatures. If they are so damn desperate to sell miniatures, then how about making the ENTIRE game worthwhile for EACH army. Not the flavor of the month, Not the Codex that Ward just happens to rape. Make the ENTIRE game better...
Ultramarines being buddies with the Tau is like Hitler asking England to help them against Russia...
"Um...sorry about Dunkirk, and the whole Battle of Britain thing, and the London blitz, and well, you know, killing hundreds of your people for no reason...BUT, there is this REALLY big country to our east that we picked a fight with, and um...we need your help to...um...fight them. Or, they will destroy us...."
Makes me sick.
37480
Post by: matphat
Interesting discussion on the fluff, but should you all be more concerned with the WAAC, cherry picking, min/maxing, you'll be facing on the table instead?
Wait till you have to ignore all the fluff just to have half a chance at winning against one of those lists.
I think that's a bigger problem than Tau and Chaos.
Besides, I'm pretty certain everyone has noticed by now, that the only thing driving GW in this edition is sales.
45703
Post by: Lynata
Kanluwen wrote:Even when Chaos forces were on the planet during the 13th Black Crusade, the Traitor Guard regiments planetside were not made up of Cadians.
Cadian regiments don't turn. Maybe a few Cadians here and there will out of a regiment, but whole regiments going traitor is unheard of.
Right, I misremembered - the traitors who slaughtered the Cadian High Command were an offworld regiment; it's been some time since I read that story in the 3E 'dex.
Still, "Cadian regiments don't turn" is an assumption that strikes me as somewhat naive. Wasn't there something about many Cadians now being born with purple eyes like the Chaos-worshipping natives that were wiped out a couple millennia ago? Shouldn't be hard to come up with some fluffy concept built around this ... like a dormant "sleeper taint" that has been growing stronger and stronger with every past generation but waits for some trigger event to become active. There, Chaos Cadians!
undertow wrote:I really don't see why so many of you have your panties all bunched up about who can ally with who, and why the fluff doesn't support that. You are so worried about the fluff for your armies but when the dice hit the table, the fluff goes away. You can have GK fighting GK, or SoB fighting SoB, who cares if one of them has a couple of units from another army with them. Is that 'fluffy'? If you're that concerned about fluff, there are many games you should just walk away from, as the 'fluff' would never allow such a battle to occur.
Maybe in your games the fluff goes away. Some of us see more in 40k than a bunch of dice and stats.
I for one have never played a battle that "wouldn't have been allowed to occur". The previous editions lended themselves well to make almost anything explainable. In fact, some Codices even offered "battle narratives", showing you reasons why your army would fight this enemy or that one. Pretty cool stuff.
And like I said, I wouldn't mind if GW would simply allow everyone to ally with anyone, leaving it to the players to sort out what they think is fluffy and what not. But this "neither nor" approach just strikes me as if GW sorta tried to stick to the fluff ... but then didn't. You know what I mean? Some combinations make sense, others don't - and the cop-outs that might "excuse" some of the nonsensical combinations might just as well be applied to combinations that, under this chart, are forbidden. It's really random.
14126
Post by: morgendonner
CaptainLoken wrote:This will ruin the game for me. I play the game BECAUSE of the Fluff. Not because of the miniatures. Not because of the rules. I've played this game since Rogue Trader days BECAUSE of the Fluff.
Now, things have changed a LOT since those days, and for the better...mostly. Slaanesh running around with Khorne, simply because the Chaos Daemons Codex says they can, is pretty stupid. They were only enemies for 20+ years. Oh look, the Necrons do have personality...ugh...
But, now we are to believe that the Ultramarines are "Battle Brothers" with the Tau...because they are resistant to Chaos? Really?
"Hey guys...sorry about those crusades, and killing thousands of your troops, and destroying hundreds of your tanks. Oh yeah, and sorry for trying to exterminate your race simply because you are...well...different...than us. But, you see, there are these REALLY bad guys that we need your help with..."
Please. It's nothing more than an amazingly bad attempt for GW to sell more miniatures. If they are so damn desperate to sell miniatures, then how about making the ENTIRE game worthwhile for EACH army. Not the flavor of the month, Not the Codex that Ward just happens to rape. Make the ENTIRE game better...
Ultramarines being buddies with the Tau is like Hitler asking England to help them against Russia...
"Um...sorry about Dunkirk, and the whole Battle of Britain thing, and the London blitz, and well, you know, killing hundreds of your people for no reason...BUT, there is this REALLY big country to our east that we picked a fight with, and um...we need your help to...um...fight them. Or, they will destroy us...."
Makes me sick.
/Shrug, did the invention of Apocalypse make you feel the same way?
20774
Post by: pretre
CaptainLoken wrote:Ultramarines being buddies with the Tau is like Hitler asking England to help them against Russia...
"Um...sorry about Dunkirk, and the whole Battle of Britain thing, and the London blitz, and well, you know, killing hundreds of your people for no reason...BUT, there is this REALLY big country to our east that we picked a fight with, and um...we need your help to...um...fight them. Or, they will destroy us...."
Makes me sick.
Nice. Godwin'd.
29833
Post by: The Dwarf Wolf
Kanluwen wrote:FallenAfh wrote:Griever wrote:
Keep in mind we also accept that Tau can ally with Daemons, even though by all accounts Tau shouldn't even be able to see or sense them and vice versa. GW is not keeping this "fluffy"
With the current fluff. Didn't the same people who leaked the allies rules also mention how Tau fluff would be changing? Its the same situation with Necrons and their new fluff.
The piece of "information" that Griever posted is incorrect and flawed.
The fact that Tau do not have psykers does not mean "they can't see or sense Daemons".
Daemons are not like Peter Pan. You don't have to believe in them for Daemons to fly away, wearing your innards as a hat.
All the fact that Tau do not have psykers means is that it is incredibly taxing for Daemons to attempt possession of a Tau host.
Whyle in the physical world, daemons are so physical as any other creature, and so, tau can see and interact with them. The fact that tau are imune to the chaos taint, and that their culture dont fear things from the warp (they barely know it) can be a great excuse for this type of alliance. They are not buddys, but are not sworn enemies too.
5873
Post by: kirsanth
matphat wrote:should you all be more concerned with the WAAC, cherry picking, min/maxing, you'll be facing on the table instead?
No.
More afraid of find more people that do not try to win. . .or worse don't even play anymore.
I would always rather play someone who tries to win than someone who does not, and losing a game always teaches me more than winning.
No loss.
45703
Post by: Lynata
The Dwarf Wolf wrote:The fact that tau are imune to the chaos taint, and that their culture dont fear things from the warp (they barely know it) can be a great excuse for this type of alliance. They are not buddys, but are not sworn enemies too.
That's true, a lot could be explained by sheer naivety and lack of experience. Demons can be pretty convincing, at least some of them.
A good explanation also has to take into account the type of enemy this alliance is fighting, though. Demons + Tau vs Imperium? Easy to explain. But Demons + Tau vs Eldar? Or other Tau? Hmm... might require more thought.
4595
Post by: CaptainLoken
I just don't play people that have to win at all costs. Once the "but, it says I can in the book" BS starts to hit the table, I will simply walk away.
I'm not against playing a tough opponent. I learn from those games as well.
But, I refuse to play people that have to cheat/cheese it up to win. That type of behavior is so pathetic, that I have nothing but contempt for the players.
"But, it is just a game!"
Really? Then why do you have to cheat in order to play?
"It's not cheating! It's in the rules!"
Right...
29833
Post by: The Dwarf Wolf
pretre wrote:CaptainLoken wrote:Ultramarines being buddies with the Tau is like Hitler asking England to help them against Russia...
"Um...sorry about Dunkirk, and the whole Battle of Britain thing, and the London blitz, and well, you know, killing hundreds of your people for no reason...BUT, there is this REALLY big country to our east that we picked a fight with, and um...we need your help to...um...fight them. Or, they will destroy us...."
Makes me sick.
Nice. Godwin'd.
Not if you take in account the fluff advances as proposed a whyle ago. If ultramarines primarch wake up and say "the emperor told us to protect those guys my comrades", it is not to much to think that half the space marines chapters in the galaxy would follow him. Dont forget the way Ultramarines and sucessors are described in fluff, they are blind followers of the codex astartes, and will surellly blindly follow the author of the codex...
It also makes a lot of sense, GW is trying to change the mood of the scenario, it is not grim dark anymore, but grim epic, those big changes in the scenario would bring that felling...
123
Post by: Alpharius
CaptainLoken wrote:This will ruin the game for me. I play the game BECAUSE of the Fluff. Not because of the miniatures. Not because of the rules. I've played this game since Rogue Trader days BECAUSE of the Fluff.
If you've been playing since Rogue Trader, you've already endured bigger changes in the background than we're liable to see this time around...
99
Post by: insaniak
IronNerd wrote:I may have fallen behind a little bit... Outside of the current discussion about DE being boned for power weapon selections, has anyone else talked about how much they want to kick the developers for changing the stats on PWs? An axe is different from a maul is different from a sword? Seriously? So now my CSM termies, who I just assembled with bits from the box, have mauls and axes and no swords, and have silly, seemingly random attributes? Bleh...
I remember all the complaints from back when they originally rolled them all into the generic 'power weapon'...
12260
Post by: Davylove21
With the allies rule, GW have effectively given us the tools to paper over an armies cracks ourselves, which might shift expectations as a whole for new books.
"Hey Tau guys! We couldn't think of any CC units for your new book other than vespid, and they just don't sell! Just take Terminators!"
You can justify anything happening in your own games, though. It'd be really annoying to play someone who kept saying "Tau and Orks? After what happened in some-piece-of-BL-trash?! PAH!"
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
Finally managed to include the official tank rules preview video, the ally table, the BOLS summary, rattman's Q&A, reddit's second Q&A session and the play test expierience by the same source into the first post. Took me a while and kept me from painting my second Malifaux and first Infinity team
CaptainLoken wrote:Ultramarines being buddies with the Tau is like Hitler asking England to help them against Russia...
"Um...sorry about Dunkirk, and the whole Battle of Britain thing, and the London blitz, and well, you know, killing hundreds of your people for no reason...BUT, there is this REALLY big country to our east that we picked a fight with, and um...we need your help to...um...fight them. Or, they will destroy us...."
Makes me sick.
Did you know that 3rd Reich generals (after Hitler's suicide) offered the Western Allies to ally against Russia ... and Patton supported that?
Davylove21 wrote:"Hey Tau guys! We couldn't think of any CC units for your new book other than vespid, and they just don't sell! Just take Terminators!"
That's simple: Take catgirls in school uniforms with katanas, fit's perfectly and will sell like hot cakes
12260
Post by: Davylove21
CaptainLoken wrote:
"It's not cheating! It's in the rules!"
Right...
"There's no law against thinking, copper!"
Right...
You must walk away from a lot of games
29833
Post by: The Dwarf Wolf
insaniak wrote:IronNerd wrote:I may have fallen behind a little bit... Outside of the current discussion about DE being boned for power weapon selections, has anyone else talked about how much they want to kick the developers for changing the stats on PWs? An axe is different from a maul is different from a sword? Seriously? So now my CSM termies, who I just assembled with bits from the box, have mauls and axes and no swords, and have silly, seemingly random attributes? Bleh...
I remember all the complaints from back when they originally rolled them all into the generic 'power weapon'...
But i agree with him, in a game like this, not making the PW generic is asking for trouble... Atributes in 40k increase exponentially, someone with S4 have double the strenght of someone with S3, so, al axe who give you +2S i likely to tripple your srenght.
Anyway, you can just tell your opponent "those guys all have regular PWs ok". Or, do like GW want, and buy a new unit...
For those afraid about Dark Eldar and weapons with I1, fantasy have introduced a rule to equilibrate it: always strike first. If eldars, or some eldar units, get it they will have big uses for big weapons...
27727
Post by: Bonde
Maige wrote:Still buttmad about DE CCW.
But I think I'm slowly coming to peace with 6th, I'll have my mind made up when the Erratas are done.
If they don't fix the Klaives/Agonizers/Huskblade then I'm going full Exodite mode: Min-Maxed Eldar+Dark Eldar, I'll become the worst TFG of all time.
I'll exploit psychic powers, spam rangers, darklight, dragons, splinters....whatever it takes.
I'll completely disregard the fluff. Buy what ever beasties I want from WHFB or even LOTR and make them count as Wraiths/Grotesques/Pain Engines/Beastmasters/Avatars whatever I feel like.
Ents and Dryads everywhere with laz0rs attached to their arms, making lore nerds cry.
It'll be like Wood Elves.........in space.
Hehe, you post really made me laugh. I really don't hope that it will have to go that far
The main two things that matter to me in a 40K game is that the background within each army is alright and that the game is somewhat balanced.
I play in a private gaming club, and we pretty much modifiy the GW rulesets as we please to better balance the different armies we play (we almost have one of each army, and they all have a fighting chance.), and then just publish the updated rules on our forum. The only thing that GW could do better for us here is that if they could write bettter rules, we would save a lot of time and effort balancing them ourselves.
Fluff reasons for armies fighting each other are not so hard to come up with in a universe as grimdark as 40K, so that does not tend to be an issue at all.
I could always make something up like my IG army has been tainted by a Daemonic influence by laying eyes on them and therefore they have to be purged by the GK. They of course don't want to die so they fight back with all they have - easy!
What is actually harder to come up with are reasons for the different armies outside the obvious Imperium alliances to not kill each other on sight. You have to take further leaps in logic and bend the fluff even more for armies like Necrons and IG not "just" to fight the moment they are ready. That is why I both like the allies system, as it allows for more fluffy armies, and look at it with great care, as it can completely feth up both fluff and game balance.
25081
Post by: Lysenis
Lynata wrote:The Dwarf Wolf wrote:The fact that tau are imune to the chaos taint, and that their culture dont fear things from the warp (they barely know it) can be a great excuse for this type of alliance. They are not buddys, but are not sworn enemies too.
That's true, a lot could be explained by sheer naivety and lack of experience. Demons can be pretty convincing, at least some of them.
A good explanation also has to take into account the type of enemy this alliance is fighting, though. Demons + Tau vs Imperium? Easy to explain. But Demons + Tau vs Eldar? Or other Tau? Hmm... might require more thought.
Have people forgotten Farsight? He has a separatist empire from the Tau. . . could a Daemon not entice him with power to kill off all the orks? Automatically Appended Next Post: Bonde wrote:Maige wrote:Still buttmad about DE CCW.
But I think I'm slowly coming to peace with 6th, I'll have my mind made up when the Erratas are done.
If they don't fix the Klaives/Agonizers/Huskblade then I'm going full Exodite mode: Min-Maxed Eldar+Dark Eldar, I'll become the worst TFG of all time.
I'll exploit psychic powers, spam rangers, darklight, dragons, splinters....whatever it takes.
I'll completely disregard the fluff. Buy what ever beasties I want from WHFB or even LOTR and make them count as Wraiths/Grotesques/Pain Engines/Beastmasters/Avatars whatever I feel like.
Ents and Dryads everywhere with laz0rs attached to their arms, making lore nerds cry.
It'll be like Wood Elves.........in space.
Hehe, you post really made me laugh. I really don't hope that it will have to go that far
The main two things that matter to me in a 40K game is that the background within each army is alright and that the game is somewhat balanced.
I play in a private gaming club, and we pretty much modifiy the GW rulesets as we please to better balance the different armies we play (we almost have one of each army, and they all have a fighting chance.), and then just publish the updated rules on our forum. The only thing that GW could do better for us here is that if they could write bettter rules, we would save a lot of time and effort balancing them ourselves.
Fluff reasons for armies fighting each other are not so hard to come up with in a universe as grimdark as 40K, so that does not tend to be an issue at all.
I could always make something up like my IG army has been tainted by a Daemonic influence by laying eyes on them and therefore they have to be purged by the GK. They of course don't want to die so they fight back with all they have - easy!
What is actually harder to come up with are reasons for the different armies outside the obvious Imperium alliances to not kill each other on sight. You have to take further leaps in logic and bend the fluff even more for armies like Necrons and IG not "just" to fight the moment they are ready. That is why I both like the allies system, as it allows for more fluffy armies, and look at it with great care, as it can completely feth up both fluff and game balance.
Sadly we wish that we all wish that we could have a gaming group that sounds that mature.
37352
Post by: Mandor
Kanluwen wrote:Daemons are not like Peter Pan.
Epic.
9892
Post by: Flashman
Amused people are still raging against the Tau / Ultramarines alliance when there is precedent in the plot of the old Fire Warrior computer game.
There was even fluff in the original Tau Codex where an (admittedly grumpy) Imperial Fist Captain was given a tour of a Tau city.
Look
49658
Post by: undertow
matphat wrote:Besides, I'm pretty certain everyone has noticed by now, that the only thing driving GW in this edition is sales.
Well, I'm pretty certain the only thing driving ANY company is sales, or whatever generates profit for them. It's like you're saying "it's their goal to make money!!" like it's a bad thing. They are a publicly traded company, the only thing they exist for is to enhance shareholder value by doing X, where in this case X == selling more models.
With that said, I couldn't be more excited about the new edition and allies in particular. I already know it will result in me happily buying more models to add some CSM to my Daemons, or some DE to my Eldar. So hey GW: Mission Accomplished.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
pretre wrote:CaptainLoken wrote:Ultramarines being buddies with the Tau is like Hitler asking England to help them against Russia...
"Um...sorry about Dunkirk, and the whole Battle of Britain thing, and the London blitz, and well, you know, killing hundreds of your people for no reason...BUT, there is this REALLY big country to our east that we picked a fight with, and um...we need your help to...um...fight them. Or, they will destroy us...."
Makes me sick.
Nice. Godwin'd.
Actually if you look at the politics from around that time period this almost happened. If King Edward VIII, Duke of Windsor had his way, it would have happened.
History is stranger than fiction
26672
Post by: Sephyr
Maige wrote:Still buttmad about DE CCW.
But I think I'm slowly coming to peace with 6th, I'll have my mind made up when the Erratas are done.
If they don't fix the Klaives/Agonizers/Huskblade then I'm going full Exodite mode: Min-Maxed Eldar+Dark Eldar, I'll become the worst TFG of all time.
I'll exploit psychic powers, spam rangers, darklight, dragons, splinters....whatever it takes.
I hate myself a bit for saying this...but preach on, brother.
I was so happy on my high horse, thinking "I don't run DE Venompasm lists or CSM Lash+Oblit cheese! 6th Ed will make the game so much more well-rounded!".
Lo and behold, GW is actually on the side of the VenomSpam guy who wouldn't field a wych cult, Chronos or Incubi if you paid him to.
181
Post by: gorgon
matphat wrote:Interesting discussion on the fluff, but should you all be more concerned with the WAAC, cherry picking, min/maxing, you'll be facing on the table instead?
Wait till you have to ignore all the fluff just to have half a chance at winning against one of those lists.
I think that's a bigger problem than Tau and Chaos.
Besides, I'm pretty certain everyone has noticed by now, that the only thing driving GW in this edition is sales.
I think that's a little disappointing. We all know that's GW's eventual end goal. But pancake edition and other rumors pointed to a very different direction to the game than what we received. I'm scratching my head more at this edition change than any other I can remember. I mean, 2nd => 3rd was clearly a bigger change to the game, but at least you could clearly see the design philosophy at work there...streamlining and simplification, allowing larger battles. This time I'm just not seeing it. Seems like they added some balance fixes but then not others. They included flyers, but then added more fiddliness at the individual model level. Premeasuring is in, but combined with a lot of tables and random rolls.
I fully admit this ALL may become clearer when I get my hands on a copy. I like some of the changes and I'm sure I'll have fun. Taken as a whole, the changes just seem kinda *odd* to me, even after you follow the money.
57935
Post by: Samurai_Eduh
Maige wrote:I'll completely disregard the fluff. Buy what ever beasties I want from WHFB or even LOTR and make them count as Wraiths/Grotesques/Pain Engines/Beastmasters/Avatars whatever I feel like.
Ents and Dryads everywhere with laz0rs attached to their arms, making lore nerds cry.
It'll be like Wood Elves.........in space.
lol, almost shot soda out of my nose with that one. Gonna siggy that if you dont mind.
27727
Post by: Bonde
Lysenis wrote:Lynata wrote:The Dwarf Wolf wrote:The fact that tau are imune to the chaos taint, and that their culture dont fear things from the warp (they barely know it) can be a great excuse for this type of alliance. They are not buddys, but are not sworn enemies too.
That's true, a lot could be explained by sheer naivety and lack of experience. Demons can be pretty convincing, at least some of them.
A good explanation also has to take into account the type of enemy this alliance is fighting, though. Demons + Tau vs Imperium? Easy to explain. But Demons + Tau vs Eldar? Or other Tau? Hmm... might require more thought.
Have people forgotten Farsight? He has a separatist empire from the Tau. . . could a Daemon not entice him with power to kill off all the orks?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bonde wrote:Maige wrote:Still buttmad about DE CCW.
But I think I'm slowly coming to peace with 6th, I'll have my mind made up when the Erratas are done.
If they don't fix the Klaives/Agonizers/Huskblade then I'm going full Exodite mode: Min-Maxed Eldar+Dark Eldar, I'll become the worst TFG of all time.
I'll exploit psychic powers, spam rangers, darklight, dragons, splinters....whatever it takes.
I'll completely disregard the fluff. Buy what ever beasties I want from WHFB or even LOTR and make them count as Wraiths/Grotesques/Pain Engines/Beastmasters/Avatars whatever I feel like.
Ents and Dryads everywhere with laz0rs attached to their arms, making lore nerds cry.
It'll be like Wood Elves.........in space.
Hehe, you post really made me laugh. I really don't hope that it will have to go that far
The main two things that matter to me in a 40K game is that the background within each army is alright and that the game is somewhat balanced.
I play in a private gaming club, and we pretty much modifiy the GW rulesets as we please to better balance the different armies we play (we almost have one of each army, and they all have a fighting chance.), and then just publish the updated rules on our forum. The only thing that GW could do better for us here is that if they could write bettter rules, we would save a lot of time and effort balancing them ourselves.
Fluff reasons for armies fighting each other are not so hard to come up with in a universe as grimdark as 40K, so that does not tend to be an issue at all.
I could always make something up like my IG army has been tainted by a Daemonic influence by laying eyes on them and therefore they have to be purged by the GK. They of course don't want to die so they fight back with all they have - easy!
What is actually harder to come up with are reasons for the different armies outside the obvious Imperium alliances to not kill each other on sight. You have to take further leaps in logic and bend the fluff even more for armies like Necrons and IG not "just" to fight the moment they are ready. That is why I both like the allies system, as it allows for more fluffy armies, and look at it with great care, as it can completely feth up both fluff and game balance.
Sadly we wish that we all wish that we could have a gaming group that sounds that mature.
I know, and that is why I really appreciate playing with these guys. There are no TFG's or WAAC players (unless agreed upon in advance ) We play with painted armies on nice tables filled with fully customized and painted terrain whenever we can, nobody takes internet spam lists and we have generally balanced the GW ruleset to make all armies equal, so that only the tactical skill of the general matter. We all have good sportsmanship and are friendly towards eachother, and we have our very own gaming locales in the middle of the city centre. The guys I play with are mature, but still nerdy and can make fun and joke around. It's pretty much every hobby gamer's wet dream and it have done my hobby well.
I know everyone can't be that lucky to have a private club to join, but in general, good sportsmanship and taking balanced lists help a lot towards making each game a greater experience. Automatically Appended Next Post: Lynata wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Even when Chaos forces were on the planet during the 13th Black Crusade, the Traitor Guard regiments planetside were not made up of Cadians.
Cadian regiments don't turn. Maybe a few Cadians here and there will out of a regiment, but whole regiments going traitor is unheard of.
Right, I misremembered - the traitors who slaughtered the Cadian High Command were an offworld regiment; it's been some time since I read that story in the 3E 'dex.
Still, "Cadian regiments don't turn" is an assumption that strikes me as somewhat naive. Wasn't there something about many Cadians now being born with purple eyes like the Chaos-worshipping natives that were wiped out a couple millennia ago? Shouldn't be hard to come up with some fluffy concept built around this ... like a dormant "sleeper taint" that has been growing stronger and stronger with every past generation but waits for some trigger event to become active. There, Chaos Cadians!
undertow wrote:I really don't see why so many of you have your panties all bunched up about who can ally with who, and why the fluff doesn't support that. You are so worried about the fluff for your armies but when the dice hit the table, the fluff goes away. You can have GK fighting GK, or SoB fighting SoB, who cares if one of them has a couple of units from another army with them. Is that 'fluffy'? If you're that concerned about fluff, there are many games you should just walk away from, as the 'fluff' would never allow such a battle to occur.
Maybe in your games the fluff goes away. Some of us see more in 40k than a bunch of dice and stats.
I for one have never played a battle that "wouldn't have been allowed to occur". The previous editions lended themselves well to make almost anything explainable. In fact, some Codices even offered "battle narratives", showing you reasons why your army would fight this enemy or that one. Pretty cool stuff.
And like I said, I wouldn't mind if GW would simply allow everyone to ally with anyone, leaving it to the players to sort out what they think is fluffy and what not. But this "neither nor" approach just strikes me as if GW sorta tried to stick to the fluff ... but then didn't. You know what I mean? Some combinations make sense, others don't - and the cop-outs that might "excuse" some of the nonsensical combinations might just as well be applied to combinations that, under this chart, are forbidden. It's really random.
I agree with you that the way GW have done allies this time around doens't seem balanced. It's just an "in the middle of the road" option. If it was a balanced rule, it would allow everyone to ally with everyone at equal terms. If it was a fluffy rule, it should be so strict that it should have at least half the number of possible alliances that it has now. it's not like 'Nids are so horribly OP that if they were allowed to ally with anyone else, it would completely break the game. And jugding from the number of people raging and threatening to quit the game, it doesn't exactly look like the fluffiest rule ever to be in a new ruleset.
3593
Post by: spaceman spiff
I created a semi-organized output of the REDDIT QnA over here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/457714.page#4447980
Have a nice day.
46751
Post by: Akroma06
Maige wrote:Still buttmad about DE CCW.
But I think I'm slowly coming to peace with 6th, I'll have my mind made up when the Erratas are done.
If they don't fix the Klaives/Agonizers/Huskblade then I'm going full Exodite mode: Min-Maxed Eldar+Dark Eldar, I'll become the worst TFG of all time.
I'll exploit psychic powers, spam rangers, darklight, dragons, splinters....whatever it takes.
I'll completely disregard the fluff. Buy what ever beasties I want from WHFB or even LOTR and make them count as Wraiths/Grotesques/Pain Engines/Beastmasters/Avatars whatever I feel like.
Ents and Dryads everywhere with laz0rs attached to their arms, making lore nerds cry.
It'll be like Wood Elves.........in space.
I don't think it will be that bad. The only big issue would be something like BT shooty termis that can be essentially spammed. It really would help explain why implossion missiles are 30 pts each. All of a sudden one or two of those and their are no more termis to deal with. Ignoring that ignore the termis! Kill everything else we should still be able to keep away from their charge range since I feel DL get a buff in 6th. No one ever said DE had to be an assaulty army.
Personally I plan on something like this.
Archon w/ Agoniser, SF, Drugs, PGL
5 Incubi Raider.
4-5 5 man warrior squads w/ blaster in venom w/ 2 SC
3 Ravagers
3 Beastmasters w/ 5 Khyemerae, 4 Razorwings
Allied with :
Farseer w/ Doom, Fortune, both runes
5 Pathfinders (Finally something to hold that home objective)
5 Firedragons in a Wave Serpent w/ Cannon and TL lasers.
It's far from top tier but it's fluffy and I get to use a lot of the new rules, plus fortuning a shadowfield is awesome. I would love some wyches to fortune but with FNP being weak...
So then up comes my question. What is the point of flickerfields if skimmers get a built in 5+ cover?
25081
Post by: Lysenis
Why does Denmark have to be so far away. . .
37755
Post by: Harriticus
Flashman wrote:Amused people are still raging against the Tau / Ultramarines alliance when there is precedent in the plot of the old Fire Warrior computer game.
There was even fluff in the original Tau Codex where an (admittedly grumpy) Imperial Fist Captain was given a tour of a Tau city.
Look
We've always known the Tau and Marines can work together if the situation gets desperate enough. But that's gone out the window now. They don't work together when the going gets tough, they're brothers in arms, the same as the Astartes and the Guard. That's what makes absolutely no sense.
30797
Post by: Kurce
Thimn wrote:So it looks like Tyranids are unable to even ally with themselves so all the people hoping for access to more elite slots will be more disappointed now.
Black Templars like the Tau and Eldar more then the Sisters of Battle, its very odd.... almost.... heretical!
Ya know... I am not surprised that people are that stupid to think that you could ally with yourself. I cannot believe that people actually thought this...
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
Is that a copy paste from my first post reddit coverage, just without the colours?
99
Post by: insaniak
Harriticus wrote:We've always known the Tau and Marines can work together if the situation gets desperate enough. But that's gone out the window now. They don't work together when the going gets tough, they're brothers in arms, the same as the Astartes and the Guard. That's what makes absolutely no sense.
If you look at the Allies Rating as being a sign of how likely it is that they share a common goal, rather than how well they get along, it probably fits a little better.
18249
Post by: Charax
Kurce wrote:Thimn wrote:So it looks like Tyranids are unable to even ally with themselves so all the people hoping for access to more elite slots will be more disappointed now.
Black Templars like the Tau and Eldar more then the Sisters of Battle, its very odd.... almost.... heretical!
Ya know... I am not surprised that people are that stupid to think that you could ally with yourself. I cannot believe that people actually thought this...
You're not surprised people thought it...but you can't believe they did?
123
Post by: Alpharius
Kurce wrote:Thimn wrote:So it looks like Tyranids are unable to even ally with themselves so all the people hoping for access to more elite slots will be more disappointed now.
Black Templars like the Tau and Eldar more then the Sisters of Battle, its very odd.... almost.... heretical!
Ya know... I am not surprised that people are that stupid to think that you could ally with yourself. I cannot believe that people actually thought this...
Can you be unsurprised AND disbelieving over this at the same time?!?
I think we need to see all of the rules before we go too nuts though...
99
Post by: insaniak
Kurce wrote:Ya know... I am not surprised that people are that stupid to think that you could ally with yourself. I cannot believe that people actually thought this...
I was going to point out that this was bordering on the rude... but I'm still trying to figure out how those two statements manage to coexist in the same paragraph.
So how about we settle with: 'Please, keep it civil', accept that some people made judgements based on incomplete rumours or out of date information and move on?
46006
Post by: Bluewulf
Macok wrote:Kanluwen wrote:It's "rumored" that it will be a fluff change; but the likelihood of such a thing being true is so far beyond the pale that discussing it is silly.
The Tau and Astartes have gotten on together in the past, when facing greater threats than themselves.
It's also worth noting that when you're discussing "Space Marines", you're discussing the myriad of Chapters which make up the "Codex: Space Marines" book....which is a ton of them.
But I don't think that right now this rumour is far fetched and THAT silly. GW is trying to make alliances between armies. Maybe even the whole "Tau live because of plot-storm" will actually be changed to "Tau live because Ultramarines like them". And C: SM is C:Ultramarines and Friends. Possibility of Orks: IG alliance (despite Yarrick) and Orks:Tau (despite Farsight) show that if part of codex is good to go, a whole codex is good to go. C: SM is battle brothers with Tau because its significant part are Ultramarines.
junk wrote:Actually yeah, it turns out that this whole time, farsight has actually been Robute inside that armor, and the Tau are going to receive his geneseed and become Tau Ultramarines. Also, they're immune to chaos, they were the ones who actually defeated the c'tan for the necrons, and a couple fire warriors walked into the warp and carved their names into the hearts of daemons because they heard some grey knight did it. Also, they eat tyranids.
I'd watch that show
to get 8 HQ's you need 4 troops
34439
Post by: Formosa
with marines and Tau it may be more of an honour thing, Tau are naive and trusting and will not break an alliance "just for lolz" some flavour of marines are the same (BT, DA and some of the other crazy chapters will just rip them apart afterwards)
41694
Post by: rattman
I am back again,I am going sit down and try and read the book from beggining to end instead of bits here and there.
I will answer a few Q's, hopefully will even be getting in a game in sometime today.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Choose one of three tables to roll on before you deploy. The tables are:
Command Traits: Affect an area around your Warlord.
Personal Traits: Specific combat skills - these can influence others around him too.
Strategic Traits: skills that affect the entire army.
Command Traits
D6 Roll
1) Inspiring Presence - Friendly units within 12" of the warlord use his Leadership
2) Intimidating Presence - Enemies within 12" of the warlord must use lowest Ld value
3) The Dust of a Thousand Worlds - Warlord and all friendlies in 12" have Move Through Cover special rule.
4) Master of the Vanguard - Warlord and all friendlies within 12" roll an extra dice when they Run, using highest.
5) Target Priority - Warlord and all friendlies in 12" reroll to hit rolls of 1 when firing at enemy within 3" of objectives.
6) Coordinated Assault - Warlord and all friendlies in 12" add 1 to the result when rolling charge distance.
Personal Traits
D6 Roll
1) Master of Defence - Warlord and unit have counter-attack special rule when in deployment zone.
2) Master of Offence - Warlord and unit have Furious Charge rule when in enemy's deployment zone.
3) Master of Manoeuvre - Warlord and unit have Outflank special rule.
4) Legendary Fighter - Each enemy character the warlord slays gets you an additional 1 VP.
5) Tenacity - Warlord and unit have Feel No Pain when in 3" of objective.
6) Immovable Object - Warlord is a scoring unit, even if he is a vehicle.
Strategic Traits
D6 Roll
1) Conqueror of Cities - All units have Move Through Cover when moving through Ruins and Stealth (Ruins) special rule.
2) Night Attacker - You can use Nightfighting rules if you want.
3) Master of Ambush - Treat all your outflanking units as having Acute Senses rule while warlord is alive.
4) Strategic Genius - While Warlord is alive, you can reroll any reserves rolls (even successful ones).
5) Divide to Conquor - While Warlord is alive opponent has a -1 mod to reserves rolls.
6) Princeps of Deceit - during deployment, before Infiltrators deploy and Scouts redeploy you can either redeploy one of your own units within 3D6" of its current location or redeploy 3 units within D6" of their current position. can't go outside deployment zone.
25081
Post by: Lysenis
Alpharius wrote:Kurce wrote:Thimn wrote:So it looks like Tyranids are unable to even ally with themselves so all the people hoping for access to more elite slots will be more disappointed now.
Black Templars like the Tau and Eldar more then the Sisters of Battle, its very odd.... almost.... heretical!
Ya know... I am not surprised that people are that stupid to think that you could ally with yourself. I cannot believe that people actually thought this...
Can you be unsurprised AND disbelieving over this at the same time?!?
I think we need to see all of the rules before we go too nuts though...
Its more like You are unsurprised that the Illusion was just that because you disbelieved it.
12271
Post by: JB
rattman wrote:I am back again,I am going sit down and try and read the book from beggining to end instead of bits here and there.
I will answer a few Q's, hopefully will even be getting in a game in sometime today.
Thanks for answering questions.
Does Ordnance still allow you to roll 2D6 and pick the best for armor penetration rolls?
42971
Post by: Kal-El
Just a game fellas. The story is advancing fluff wise via new rule book. Let's see what has been cooked up for us for this edition. Then after all the fluff has been read we should start on the topic of if the fluff and allies are good great or suck
43578
Post by: A Town Called Malus
Lysenis wrote:Lynata wrote:The Dwarf Wolf wrote:The fact that tau are imune to the chaos taint, and that their culture dont fear things from the warp (they barely know it) can be a great excuse for this type of alliance. They are not buddys, but are not sworn enemies too.
That's true, a lot could be explained by sheer naivety and lack of experience. Demons can be pretty convincing, at least some of them.
A good explanation also has to take into account the type of enemy this alliance is fighting, though. Demons + Tau vs Imperium? Easy to explain. But Demons + Tau vs Eldar? Or other Tau? Hmm... might require more thought.
Have people forgotten Farsight? He has a separatist empire from the Tau. . . could a Daemon not entice him with power to kill off all the orks?
Farsight can slaughter Orks without any help from Gods who couldn't give him power anyway, due to the Tau races tiny presence in the warp. Farsight is a purist, he doesn't even allow Kroot in his armies, he's not about to let some random daemon/xeno he knows nothing about in.
6772
Post by: Vaktathi
Just because Tau have small warp presences doesn't mean they can't be empowered/corrupted/etc by it. It just means they aren't as attractive to the the powers therein and likely won't have any natural psykers amongst their kind
41694
Post by: rattman
JB wrote:rattman wrote:I am back again,I am going sit down and try and read the book from beggining to end instead of bits here and there.
I will answer a few Q's, hopefully will even be getting in a game in sometime today.
Thanks for answering questions.
Does Ordnance still allow you to roll 2D6 and pick the best for armor penetration rolls?
2 dice pick highest.
9594
Post by: RiTides
Rattman, can you tell me if "drop pod assault" is still in (I.e. half of your pods come in turn 1)?
43578
Post by: A Town Called Malus
Flashman wrote:Amused people are still raging against the Tau / Ultramarines alliance when there is precedent in the plot of the old Fire Warrior computer game.
There was even fluff in the original Tau Codex where an (admittedly grumpy) Imperial Fist Captain was given a tour of a Tau city.
Look
That Space Marine commander was given a tour whilst escorting a diplomat who was there to stall for time in negotiations whilst an Imperial fleet came to take back a world which the Tau had conquered. The Tau was just humouring him and showing him what his army was going to be coming up against. It was not a friendly visit.
That bit of fluff ended with the Space Marine telling the Tau that he would fight them to the last drop of blood.
2764
Post by: AgeOfEgos
In CC, is there still a 2 inch kill bubble?
Do you really remove casualties from the 'front' or base to base first?
Can a model be denied attacks? (As in the PF did not go yet--nothing left in base to base)
Does it appear Mindschackle Scarabs will work in challenges?
Thanks
25081
Post by: Lysenis
A Town Called Malus wrote:Lysenis wrote:Lynata wrote:The Dwarf Wolf wrote:The fact that tau are imune to the chaos taint, and that their culture dont fear things from the warp (they barely know it) can be a great excuse for this type of alliance. They are not buddys, but are not sworn enemies too.
That's true, a lot could be explained by sheer naivety and lack of experience. Demons can be pretty convincing, at least some of them.
A good explanation also has to take into account the type of enemy this alliance is fighting, though. Demons + Tau vs Imperium? Easy to explain. But Demons + Tau vs Eldar? Or other Tau? Hmm... might require more thought.
Have people forgotten Farsight? He has a separatist empire from the Tau. . . could a Daemon not entice him with power to kill off all the orks?
Farsight can slaughter Orks without any help from Gods who couldn't give him power anyway, due to the Tau races tiny presence in the warp. Farsight is a purist, he doesn't even allow Kroot in his armies, he's not about to let some random daemon/xeno he knows nothing about in.
Ahhh but hte love of the fluff and the incalculable times that some one that is a purist has turned his or her way of thinking unbeknownst to themselves. If you want a good reference go watch Machine Gun Preacher.
41694
Post by: rattman
RiTides wrote:Rattman, can you tell me if "drop pod assault" is still in (I.e. half of your pods come in turn 1)?
nothing in the index about drop pods and I am pretty sure its in the SM codex
50692
Post by: Wrath
Can you take Special characters from Allies?
45703
Post by: Lynata
A Town Called Malus wrote:Flashman wrote:Amused people are still raging against the Tau / Ultramarines alliance when there is precedent in the plot of the old Fire Warrior computer game.
There was even fluff in the original Tau Codex where an (admittedly grumpy) Imperial Fist Captain was given a tour of a Tau city.
Look
That Space Marine commander was given a tour whilst escorting a diplomat who was there to stall for time in negotiations whilst an Imperial fleet came to take back a world which the Tau had conquered. The Tau was just humouring him and showing him what his army was going to be coming up against. It was not a friendly visit.
That bit of fluff ended with the Space Marine telling the Tau that he would fight them to the last drop of blood.
Wow. This reminds me of that "misleading historical photos" documentary I once watched.
26672
Post by: Sephyr
Akroma06 wrote: No one ever said DE had to be an assaulty army.
Open-topped transports, wyches, Incubi, Wracks, Grotesques, Talos, Lelith, Drazhar, Lady Malys, Hellions, Baron Sathonyx... *pant pant*
*breathe*
...Mandrakes, Beasts would all like a word with you on DE not being an assaulty army.
41694
Post by: rattman
Wrath wrote:Can you take Special characters from Allies?
as answered last night, doesn't say you can't so I am guessing you can
35177
Post by: ashtekka
rattman: does run function the same? move one d6" no assaults afterwards?
Thanks for taking the time to answer questions.
34060
Post by: Mohoc
I got a question about snapfire:
Can troops embarked on transports use their firing ports to shoot when their transport is being assaulted?
48139
Post by: BarBoBot
ashtekka wrote:rattman: does run function the same? move one d6" no assaults afterwards?
Thanks for taking the time to answer questions.
This has been answered many times now. If your going to trouble the man with questions, at least read the thread first so you won't ask something that's been covered...
At the very least you should read the first post and the last 2 days of posts.
41694
Post by: rattman
ashtekka wrote:rattman: does run function the same? move one d6" no assaults afterwards?
Thanks for taking the time to answer questions.
yes its the same. fleet has changed but. fleet allows you reroll your run or charge dice.
3593
Post by: spaceman spiff
Kroothawk wrote:
Is that a copy paste from my first post reddit coverage, just without the colours?
No
35177
Post by: ashtekka
BarBoBot wrote:ashtekka wrote:rattman: does run function the same? move one d6" no assaults afterwards?
Thanks for taking the time to answer questions.
This has been answered many times now. If your going to trouble the man with questions, at least read the thread first so you won't ask something that's been covered...
Sorry I must have missed it somewhere in the massive amount of pages dedicated to arguing pointlessly about the allies...
9594
Post by: RiTides
BarBoBot- In the OP, that's actually not specified, as far as I can see. It just mentions that fleet allows you to reroll a dice for running/assaulting, and one of the command abilities does similarly.
50692
Post by: Wrath
rattman wrote:Wrath wrote:Can you take Special characters from Allies?
as answered last night, doesn't say you can't so I am guessing you can
Oops! sry I missed it. tyty. =]
9594
Post by: RiTides
rattman, I feel neglected . But maybe I'm just thinking of the wrong place. Drop pod assault is a main rulebook rule, not a codex rule, right?
No one's mentioned anything about it either way, so I've assumed it stays the same- would be nice to have confirmation, though!
48139
Post by: BarBoBot
Edit** deleted double post and then the original post disappeared...
Anyway... Kroot can't be expected to keep the OP updated in real time. The book has been in people's hands for 2 days and questions have been answered constantly. At the very least the last 2 days of posts should be read so the Q&A can actually progress past the same questions being asked over and over
20650
Post by: Pyriel-
It really would help explain why implossion missiles are 30 pts each. All of a sudden one or two of those and their are no more termis to deal with.
30 points to be able to waste 200p of termies? Poor underpowered DE.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
BarBoBot wrote:Kroot can't keep the OP updated in real time, but the book has been in people's hands for 2 days now with questions being answered constantly.
It just seem lazy when a question that has been answered gets asked several times. Take the time to read the last 2 days of posts so the Q&A can actually progress past things that were already covered.
Thats why I keep going to page 1
38176
Post by: Griever
RiTides wrote:rattman, I feel neglected . But maybe I'm just thinking of the wrong place. Drop pod assault is a main rulebook rule, not a codex rule, right?
No one's mentioned anything about it either way, so I've assumed it stays the same- would be nice to have confirmation, though!
Drop Pod Assault is a codex rule. That's why the BT Drop Pods function differently. Automatically Appended Next Post: Pyriel- wrote:It really would help explain why implossion missiles are 30 pts each. All of a sudden one or two of those and their are no more termis to deal with.
30 points to be able to waste 200p of termies? Poor underpowered DE.
30 points which may or may not be killing any terminators, on an already expensive vehicle. Thats 30 per shot.
102
Post by: Jayden63
Sephyr wrote:Akroma06 wrote: No one ever said DE had to be an assaulty army.
Open-topped transports, wyches, Incubi, Wracks, Grotesques, Talos, Lelith, Drazhar, Lady Malys, Hellions, Baron Sathonyx... *pant pant*
*breathe*
...Mandrakes, Beasts would all like a word with you on DE not being an assaulty army.
I really expect the DE to get one of the more detailed and longer FAQs. Much of their codex will become worthless if you loose 1/3 to 1/2 of the squad to overwatch fire. This also effects things like Eldar aspect warriors, trukk boys, kroot, etc. Overwatch does really nothing against the standard MEQ, but brutalizes anything with a 5+ or worse armor save.
41694
Post by: rattman
RiTides wrote:rattman, I feel neglected . But maybe I'm just thinking of the wrong place. Drop pod assault is a main rulebook rule, not a codex rule, right?
No one's mentioned anything about it either way, so I've assumed it stays the same- would be nice to have confirmation, though!
theres no entry for drop pods in the index and its in the SM codex so there are no changes to rule
102
Post by: Jayden63
For my own question and I have not yet seen it answered. If a unit assaults a vehicle... what facing are the attacks made against?
41694
Post by: rattman
Jayden63 wrote:For my own question and I have not yet seen it answered. If a unit assaults a vehicle... what facing are the attacks made against?
pretty sure I read it last night as still rear
20867
Post by: Just Dave
Rattman,
Not many people have said it, but I appreciate your efforts and contribution, particularly by answering so many questions - so thanks.
No offence, but I don't imagine your info will be perfect; you're one guy reading a 400-page rulebook and interpreting potentially vague questions or rules. As the Reddit dude proved, mistakes are inevitable, but you're doing a great job and service and the vast majority (if not all) will be accurate, so thanks again.
9594
Post by: RiTides
Griever / rattman- thank you! As long as the erratas for the books don't change it, then, I should be all good with my drop pod army 
20650
Post by: Pyriel-
30 points which may or may not be killing any terminators, on an already expensive vehicle. Thats 30 per shot.
Yeah and the points are more then earned back for every one of those shots.
41694
Post by: rattman
Just Dave wrote:Rattman,
Not many people have said it, but I appreciate your efforts and contribution, particularly by answering so many questions - so thanks.
No offence, but I don't imagine your info will be perfect; you're one guy reading a 400-page rulebook and interpreting potentially vague questions or rules. As the Reddit dude proved, mistakes are inevitable, but you're doing a great job and service and the vast majority (if not all) will be accurate, so thanks again.
thanks dave you are correct, I still have to make judgements on stuff, the FAQ's are going to be massive
37352
Post by: Mandor
Jayden63 wrote:Sephyr wrote:Akroma06 wrote: No one ever said DE had to be an assaulty army.
Open-topped transports, wyches, Incubi, Wracks, Grotesques, Talos, Lelith, Drazhar, Lady Malys, Hellions, Baron Sathonyx... *pant pant*
*breathe*
...Mandrakes, Beasts would all like a word with you on DE not being an assaulty army.
I really expect the DE to get one of the more detailed and longer FAQs. Much of their codex will become worthless if you loose 1/3 to 1/2 of the squad to overwatch fire. This also effects things like Eldar aspect warriors, trukk boys, kroot, etc. Overwatch does really nothing against the standard MEQ, but brutalizes anything with a 5+ or worse armor save.
That plus fleet made useless, every vehicle can now move flatout, AP2 or AP3 special weapons, losing 9 minus D6 assault range from transports not even counting overwatch deaths, every skimmer getting a 5+ save, etc.
20774
Post by: pretre
Mandor wrote:Jayden63 wrote:Sephyr wrote:Akroma06 wrote: No one ever said DE had to be an assaulty army.
Open-topped transports, wyches, Incubi, Wracks, Grotesques, Talos, Lelith, Drazhar, Lady Malys, Hellions, Baron Sathonyx... *pant pant*
*breathe*
...Mandrakes, Beasts would all like a word with you on DE not being an assaulty army.
I really expect the DE to get one of the more detailed and longer FAQs. Much of their codex will become worthless if you loose 1/3 to 1/2 of the squad to overwatch fire. This also effects things like Eldar aspect warriors, trukk boys, kroot, etc. Overwatch does really nothing against the standard MEQ, but brutalizes anything with a 5+ or worse armor save.
That plus fleet made useless, every vehicle can now move flatout, AP2 or AP3 special weapons, losing 9 minus D6 assault range from transports not even counting overwatch deaths, every skimmer getting a 5+ save, etc.
Read the first post again. Especially the part about 'DON'T PANIC'.
9594
Post by: RiTides
Fleet is NOT useless! In fantasy, the equivalent / similar rule (swiftstride) that allows you to roll 3 dice and pick the highest 2 for assaulting, is incredibly useful.
I could be wrong, but from what I've read I think fleet allows you to reroll only 1 of the assault dice? Which would mean you could keep a high number and reroll a low. Which could be extremely useful for making it into assaults.
26170
Post by: davethepak
Rattman:
1 - Thank you for doing this.
2 - Can we get a clarification on snipers....even the reddit flow had some contradiction in it.
* they for certain pick the target model if they roll a 6
* do they still have some kind of rend, or ap 1/2 on a 6 to hit or wound?
3 - Rapid fire - again, contradictory reports - can a unit move and still shoot once at max range?
4 - Rending attacks: again, contradictory reports.
* does rending get ap2 on a 6 to hit or wound?
* does rending auto wound on a 6 to hit?
5 - Is the smash thing MC's get, is it: Auto hit, is it I10?
Thank you again sir.
|
|
