Considering GW has recently loved making 5th ed callbacks, ever since the Mounted Wight Lord for SBG and the fact it's probably just a single Skink on a mount, not a unit...
Inxi Huinzi.
It'd be nice to see him brought back with a modernised take on the original Horned One.
You know, since Seraphon lack ANY special characters whatsoever outside of Kroak despite there being a literal ton of them in Fantasy (Mazdamundi, Kroak, Kroq-Gar, Gor-rok, Chakax, Tehehauin, Tetto;eko, Tiktaq'to, Nakai, Oxyotl....)
If Death get like, half their characters back and Chaos get virtually all of them it'd be damn nice to have Seraphon get some too. Especially since their fluff has the concept of literal memory-databanks to allow individuals of renown to be reborn....
DarkStarSabre wrote: Considering GW has recently loved making 5th ed callbacks, ever since the Mounted Wight Lord for SBG and the fact it's probably just a single Skink on a mount, not a unit...
Inxi Huinzi.
It'd be nice to see him brought back with a modernised take on the original Horned One.
You know, since Seraphon lack ANY special characters whatsoever outside of Kroak despite there being a literal ton of them in Fantasy (Mazdamundi, Kroak, Kroq-Gar, Gor-rok, Chakax, Tehehauin, Tetto;eko, Tiktaq'to, Nakai, Oxyotl....)
If Death get like, half their characters back and Chaos get virtually all of them it'd be damn nice to have Seraphon get some too. Especially since their fluff has the concept of literal memory-databanks to allow individuals of renown to be reborn....
Why not both a character and a unit, even if it's just a unit box with a character upgrade option?
I think it's safe to say Lizzies won't be a book plus lone character deal. If they're getting a decent range update, might as well make the most of it. Especially considering how long it took GW to get around to the army.
Well that would basically require unit bought in 2's like stormcast dragons. Unlikely gw would do say unit of 5 that can be taken in 4's for each hero x.
(box of 5 with hero option you can only take in 5's would be super customer unfriendly. Luckily gw been moving away from that)
Danny76 wrote: I was gonna say watching the video I thought immediately it was just new Saurus Cav
Saurus Cavalry may easily get a boost in size and oomph and fit a slot more like 'superheavy' cavalry, like the drakoth-riding stormcast, bloodcrusher and so on. That would also open up another slot for skinks on more slender, smaller lizards as light cavalry.
Is not Saurus Cav. Rider has to be a skink, since is standing on top of the dinosaur.
Didn’t really look at the rider.
I meant more in reply to the comments saying it’s a new big beast etc.
tneva82 wrote: Well that would basically require unit bought in 2's like stormcast dragons. Unlikely gw would do say unit of 5 that can be taken in 4's for each hero x.
(box of 5 with hero option you can only take in 5's would be super customer unfriendly. Luckily gw been moving away from that)
Yeah, character upgrades in unit boxes have their downsides to be sure, but there are also upsides. If you want both the character and the unit you'll pay less over a separate clampack character and unit box, and getting it at all beats not getting one or the other because GW won't do two kits for whatever reason.
Largely the issue is easily resolved even in the framework of AoS's rudimentary points system. Since they insist on making units buyable only in increments, for the rare units that get such a combo box it shouldn't be an issue to have points values both for standard increments and understrength increments and just let players decide if they want a unit of 4, 5, 8, 9 or 10 for instance.
5-point changes on 200+ cost units just leave me scratching my head. Some actually are decent rounding-offs; like a 205 going to 200 or the like, but so many just leave me asking why. Being 240 instead of 245 will not have a measurable impact on the meta.
lord_blackfang wrote: Why do they keep titling these Mordheim previews as Cities of Sigmar
Indeed. The whole premise seems to be to fill a Mordheim bitz box without having to actually re-release the game itself. Until they do. Which I suspect may actually happen considering they must know there's a market for it. Occasionally having to openly remind the chat on reveal streams that things like the Witch Hunters from Underworld can actually be used for their intended purpose (i.e.... Underworlds) when every comments is just "can't wait to convert these for Mordheim".
I do think there's been a very conscious decision to push a 'lower fantasy' aesthetic into the AoS range in general because the more abstract ones don't seem to be especially popular (may well be confirmation bias on my part there though; I don't really follow the game in massive detail).
Crimson wrote: This looks really promising, but this dribble feed is starting to get a tad frustrating. At this point they could have at least shown one full model.
Seriously I don't know what the point of these dragged out teasers is, they pulled the same gak with Sisters, when they're perfectly capable of crafting massive new product lines without a word to anyone before they goo them all over the planet.
lord_blackfang wrote: Why do they keep titling these Mordheim previews as Cities of Sigmar
Indeed. The whole premise seems to be to fill a Mordheim bitz box without having to actually re-release the game itself. Until they do. Which I suspect may actually happen considering they must know there's a market for it. Occasionally having to openly remind the chat on reveal streams that things like the Witch Hunters from Underworld can actually be used for their intended purpose (i.e.... Underworlds) when every comments is just "can't wait to convert these for Mordheim".
I do think there's been a very conscious decision to push a 'lower fantasy' aesthetic into the AoS range in general because the more abstract ones don't seem to be especially popular (may well be confirmation bias on my part there though; I don't really follow the game in massive detail).
I think you'd be wrong on that one. The "abstract" ones tend to catch a lot more attention because you can do a lot more with them.
Crimson wrote: This looks really promising, but this dribble feed is starting to get a tad frustrating. At this point they could have at least shown one full model.
Yeah, we have some art so we can imagine how, and what will be there, at least partialy, but showing an actual model from time to time would be a nice break from the usual boringness of these articles.
Crimson wrote: This looks really promising, but this dribble feed is starting to get a tad frustrating. At this point they could have at least shown one full model.
Yeah, we have some art so we can imagine how, and what will be there, at least partialy, but showing an actual model from time to time would be a nice break from the usual boringness of these articles.
That will happen closer to the release. Expect something like six to eight months earlier at most. We're just not there yet. Warhammer Fest is a better time to get your hopes up for that. Adepticon if we're really lucky.
Crimson wrote: This looks really promising, but this dribble feed is starting to get a tad frustrating. At this point they could have at least shown one full model.
Yeah, we have some art so we can imagine how, and what will be there, at least partialy, but showing an actual model from time to time would be a nice break from the usual boringness of these articles.
That would mean release within 3 months. Optimistic.
lord_blackfang wrote: Why do they keep titling these Mordheim previews as Cities of Sigmar
Indeed. The whole premise seems to be to fill a Mordheim bitz box without having to actually re-release the game itself. Until they do. Which I suspect may actually happen considering they must know there's a market for it. Occasionally having to openly remind the chat on reveal streams that things like the Witch Hunters from Underworld can actually be used for their intended purpose (i.e.... Underworlds) when every comments is just "can't wait to convert these for Mordheim".
I do think there's been a very conscious decision to push a 'lower fantasy' aesthetic into the AoS range in general because the more abstract ones don't seem to be especially popular (may well be confirmation bias on my part there though; I don't really follow the game in massive detail).
I think you'd be wrong on that one. The "abstract" ones tend to catch a lot more attention because you can do a lot more with them.
Fair enough; there's obviously a lot more context needed in terms of how we're qualifying popularity (don't know precisely what you mean by 'do more with them'?). As hobby projects I'm sure more esoteric stuff such as Idoneth or Kharadron see more traction whereas hardcore tournament-mentality players will naturally gravitate towards whatever is most effective at any given time. I just have this impression that there's at least a decent proportion of the player base that's (rightly or wrongly; it's all subjective) more willing to pick up a faction that's more obviously an extrapolation of a previous WH Fantasy one (i.e. Soulblight or Nighthaunt or Skaven or basically any Chaos faction as examples) but less keen on something that's either A) had a more substantive re-design to bring it into AoS as a unique entity (such as Ossiarchs) or B) taken that extrapolation to enough of an extreme that it almost Flanderises them (i.e. Fyreslayers). Obviously there's more that goes into that; limited ranges or poor rules (which I'm not qualified to judge in AoS as I don't play it).
Cities of Sigmar bits look nice but I am curious about what they are attached to. Many of them look like decoration of a building or war machine. You don't attach gargoyles to troops, right?
The Vanguard set is also neat, with a lord in there you can easily double up on them and have a powerful core of chaos models.
All in all fantastic and I bet this clears out those remaining Slaves to Darkness with Prince boxed sets pretty fast now. I'd wager they will vanish over the next day/week with this news.
Only oddity is GW still not updating the Marauders kit.
That might have been the original plan but, again, things get squished these days. That said many of the models have already had retail releases in various forms so many are just split kits going on sale on their own for the first time.
Given the gaps in the releases depending on region, I'd say that they're still having supply chain issues. These were all probably due out last year anyway.
Man every time I look at those new chosen, they are just so dam cool. I already have more than I need, too... but none are the badass new plastic ones...
H.B.M.C. wrote: Given the gaps in the releases depending on region, I'd say that they're still having supply chain issues. These were all probably due out last year anyway.
That would mean they knew like half a year ago they are going to have to delay...
There had been some suggestion that the Deamon Prince was being held back until after the release of a 40K Arks of Omen Chaos Battleforce, so I'm glad that didn't pan out - that would have been quite arsehole-ish even for GW.
I am usually not one to complain about the prices. But everything except Eternus and the Exalted is north of my expected price point.
In case of the Daemon Prince quite far north...
*sigh*
Positive:
I am even more happy about buying the box set now.
Those170€ Last year would be 260€ today.
Edit: interesting how lord_blackfang and i can so completely disagree on what is "to be expected". Guess there is no good pricepoint anyway.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I wonder if the Halberds/Shields from the new Chaos Warriors will work with the new Chosen minis...
It would be very chaotic and on-brand to only let the chosen be equipped with the random weapons provided in a single box
Anyway, how do you wield halberd and shield simultaneously? Sounds like a terribly awkvard combo.
Historical halbers were used like a spear, axe or hook depending on circumstances, so you could probably do spear-y moves if you were fighting in close formations and using shields. Or you could carry a shield as long as you were just moving about on the battlefield, and drop it once stuck in to use the halberd with both hands. Of course historical halberds were also much more spear-like in appearance and did not have axeheads the size of a grown man's torso
Hulked-out chaos dudes can probably do the more physically demanding moves one-handed and thus enjoy the full halberd benefits even when simultaneously using a shield.
CoALabaer wrote: Edit: interesting how lord_blackfang and i can so completely disagree on what is "to be expected". Guess there is no good pricepoint anyway.
I barely have a pulse on AoS nowadays so if anyone is off it's probably me! But I see Ogroids the same cost as Stormfiends, Chaos Knights same as Blood Knights, etc.
CoALabaer wrote: Edit: interesting how lord_blackfang and i can so completely disagree on what is "to be expected". Guess there is no good pricepoint anyway.
I barely have a pulse on AoS nowadays so if anyone is off it's probably me! But I see Ogroids the same cost as Stormfiends, Chaos Knights same as Blood Knights, etc.
As a person that does not play AoS, it looks to me, from the outside, like GW operates on the principle that the rank-and-file days of WH Fantasy are over, but that the amount you're expected to spend on a 'typical' army as a whole more or less stays the same, i.e. you replace 40 clanrats with 2 x 10 Verminoid Spearskitters that cost about the same, and 10 rank-and-file-ish knights with 3 Armourhide Destroyers on Thunderchunk Hulkadons etc.- basically everything shifts down in number but goes up in size and cost.
CoALabaer wrote: Edit: interesting how lord_blackfang and i can so completely disagree on what is "to be expected". Guess there is no good pricepoint anyway.
I barely have a pulse on AoS nowadays so if anyone is off it's probably me! But I see Ogroids the same cost as Stormfiends, Chaos Knights same as Blood Knights, etc.
I'm with you on most of that looking quite normal for stuff released at this time. Infantry, cavalry, character on foot. The Daemon Prince seems to be a little on the high side as far as I'm concerned, but maybe it's bigger than I thought. I haven't seen it in a scale picture yet as far as I remember.
Prince is actually a lot cheaper than I thought considering how many parts its got for spares.
The rest feel expensive, but in lineish with current GW prices on things. I feel like GW is trying to push AoS steadily away from large infantry games into minimum compositions and more skirmishing.
Either its a shift for this edition or its a slow move to have AoS be the "skirmisher" and Old World the "wargame" to have a visual different on the tabletop.
As a person that does not play AoS, it looks to me, from the outside, like GW operates on the principle that the rank-and-file days of WH Fantasy are over, but that the amount you're expected to spend on a 'typical' army as a whole more or less stays the same, i.e. you replace 40 clanrats with 2 x 10 Verminoid Spearskitters that cost about the same, and 10 rank-and-file-ish knights with 3 Armourhide Destroyers on Thunderchunk Hulkadons etc.- basically everything shifts down in number but goes up in size and cost.
I don't know a lot about AoS, but I do know that if 'Armourhide Destroyers on Thunderchunk Hulkadons' isn't a unit by this time next year, I'm organizing a riot!!
I'm not happy with those prices, but not outraged either. Not even disappointed, it's just what to expect nowadays. Really though it could be knocked down 15% considering the discounters tons of people will use.
The prices for single foot heroes are still absurd. Exalted hero is easily converted from a Chosen or Chaos Warrior with a few spare bits from other kits. He looks cool, but not nearly THAT cool.
Anyone knows what's the deal with the Vanguard boxes? For Slaves to darkness it seems almost identical to the Start Collecting box.
So are they meant to replace the Start collecting boxes? Are they limited or will they be around for a while?
Uuuh...SC's been replaced with combat patrol(40k) and vanguards(AOS) for over a year now...
Yes they are replacement. Yes they are staying until they are replaced with something in future but for now they are here to stay.
Basically new version of SC. More stuff though higher price. Worse in that buy in price is higher though of course you get more models in return. IIRC discount is about the same. Just less of impulse buy level price.
Also they are more careful about making spammable vanguards. Nothing like old beastclaw raider that was buy 3, have 2k army. Sylvaneth is one of the more spammable ones and even then you end up with spare heroes(though still saving over separate buying and as kits have options you can find use for several)
AUD$98 for 5 Chosen knocks the wind out of the sails a bit.
Had I known the Army Set was a full $100 discount on the miniatures alone with the Battletome and peripherals for free, I might have actually considered it.
I was extremely underwhelmed with the value of the Sororitas army box, especially in terms of the quality of the peripherals, so I started ignoring most of them on the assumption any discount on miniatures was countered by overvalued books and cards.
At any rate, $335 isn't exactly a spur of the moment purchase price, but in hindsight I should have seen $98 Chosen coming not because it's a reasonable price but because it hasn't even been a year since Hedonites got their 5-man elite troops for the same price.
Huh. I really like the off-white armor. Really striking, and for some reason I've never seen that approach to chaos warriors before.
The 'exalted champion' looks like any other dude, with underwhelming options for gear. I presume he's on a bigger base so people will know.... though I believe chosen are also on 40mm. So I guess he has limited weapons and they must take two handers so they can't be confused with each other.
MarkNorfolk wrote: Ok. 'Sonorous Toot' is the name of my next bard rpg character...
That is a great line, for sure.
I know its certainly been brought up before when we all saw the previews and the notable absence of CW's with weapons in each hand. But after just glancing at the sprue, I don't see how it wasn't possible to include options for CW's with weapons in each hand. I wonder what the design decision behind omitting that option was all about. I guess they wanted the weapon in each hand to be a Blood Warrior/Twin Soul thing?
Ooof... 5 Chosen for AUD$105. That's a 7% increase over the last equivalent box (Possessed). Ditto for the basic squad of Chaos Warriors. Guess that price point is the "new normal" for infantry and large infantry sets from now on.
And I thought that Chosen came 10 to a box, but it's only 5. Glad I got my 10 for 66% off.
stahly wrote: I explore all the assembly options, took high-res sprue pics, and check whether the new Warriors are compatible with the Chaos Chosen kit or not
Do you think if I cut the Chaos Warrior weapons off at, say, the wrists, could I make a few Chosen with Halberds/shields?
AoS has done really well lore wise to present Chaos as quite tempting to join and quite a lot more "human" than the Stormcast.
It's a great move because it lets them have a good VS evil battle at the gods end of things; whilst at the mortal end of things you can easily see how many many people would be tempted toward Chaos. How Chaos seeps into and corrupts and how civilizations and nations can function with Chaos.
Which is a great thing because its so easy when doing a faction like Chaos that you can end up with something like early Drow for DnD - focused so much on the twisted dark aspects that any attempt to step back results in a huge issue with trying to work out just why or how their society even functions*.
Chaos we can see how you get tempted in; how societies form and promote the worship; how they can indeed appear attractive and possible to join outside of "oh you're driven mad by chaos powers".
And yep having Stormcast as less human is a very bold and great move. It sets Stormcast up to be these paragons of truth and power and justice, but also allows them to have that sinister dark side. That inhuman side that makes them powerful allies, but as time passes perhaps less and less trusted. Especially with those who have been reforged many times over and are losing more and more of their humanity
*A society where everyone is seeking to assassinate or backstab everyone else. Where the only social mobility is killing those superior to you; where every day you have to watch out in case someone comes to kill you and where you've almost no loyalties or unity between anyone.
Such a society is super hard to imagine how it even manages to build a settlement of a few individuals, let alone a nation with significant technological, magical ,cultural and more sophistication and advances.
GaroRobe wrote: I think its really interesting that they humanized all the new chaos warriors by having faces visible behind the masks.
Meanwhile, the "good" stormcast have nothing but darkness behind the masks (unless you're blowing a horn)
Not sure if it was intentional, but its a cool dichotomy
If I recall correctly, the original fluff behind Stormcast is that they were just animated suits of armor - there was no actual body inside.
That was pre-/early release fan-theory/headcanon and was never the actual case in canon. Unless you mean designer interviews revealed that they initially thought to do that, but by their actual release that wasn't the case.
GaroRobe wrote: I think its really interesting that they humanized all the new chaos warriors by having faces visible behind the masks.
Meanwhile, the "good" stormcast have nothing but darkness behind the masks (unless you're blowing a horn)
Not sure if it was intentional, but its a cool dichotomy
If I recall correctly, the original fluff behind Stormcast is that they were just animated suits of armor - there was no actual body inside.
That was pre-/early release fan-theory/headcanon and was never the actual case in canon. Unless you mean designer interviews revealed that they initially thought to do that, but by their actual release that wasn't the case.
Funny. When I got into the hobby I thought the Stormcast were literally just empty suits of armour apart from the big heroes and whatnot
Overread wrote: I've not been happy with things like £40 for 5 cavalry models for ages - since Ossiarchs when it started!
Also aren't video games on consoles going up in price this year?
Some triple A publishers are trying to push the jump from $60 to $70. It isn't terribly common (yet), and its harder to do because of so many smaller studios not doing it.
But the major difference is the price of video games was static for a long, long time (honestly decades), until they finally managed to shift it to $60. And that was a while ago. With current inflation and the cost of development of development going up (with the pushback on using programmers and animators as disposal wage-slaves on perpetual crunch time), there actually is an argument to be made that costs are going up. It isn't necessarily justified (and imo, would be better with a percentage increase rather than a flat $10 jump), but its a much more complex situation than GW still paying their people relative pennies, and their materials cost being adjacent to almost nothing and still raising prices (because they largely set the market price anyway).
I badly wanted new chosen, but having to spend more than 120 dollars to get the same amount that was in the big box is... no. Never. I will never spend that amount.
You guys do know if you go on eBay or trade sites, you can find the chosen, ogroids etc for half or under? They're very common because of the launch box
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: You guys do know if you go on eBay or trade sites, you can find the chosen, ogroids etc for half or under? They're very common because of the launch box
You do know that it is about absurdly priced minis not about finding them cheaper on ebay?
Yes but those second hand battle box prices are only temporary. If you want them today and can afford them today its great; but in a years time they won't be there at those prices.
The chosen literally follow the same pricing model as many other “elite” AOS units so I’m not sure why anyone was surprised at the pricing.
This is a unit that is 240 points for 5. You don’t need tens of them. If you do then price to points wise it’s pretty good so you are still king a cheap ish army.
Quite a solid release overall, lots of new plastic kits for the core models of the army.
I wonder if beasts of chaos will be getting a similar level of attention or if it'll be a splash beastlord + book + weak vanguard set replacing the excellent value start collecting box.
I picked up two BoC start collecting boxes before they go OOP, now to hope that the vanguard set has some gors or minotaurs in there.
A new tuskgor chariot or centigors would be really welcome, it's a very neglected mini range that has had almost nothing since 7th edition WHFB over 10 years ago. The underworlds beastmen set was really great.
scarletsquig wrote: I wonder if beasts of chaos will be getting a similar level of attention or if it'll be a splash beastlord + book + weak vanguard set replacing the excellent value start collecting box.
Expect the latter, I believe. Beastlord preview mentioned nothing else, only that there'd be a more in-depth look at the new battletome later on.
I picked up two BoC start collecting boxes before they go OOP, now to hope that the vanguard set has some gors or minotaurs in there.
If there's one positive to being an outdated range, it's that the units actually in plastic are all relatively cheap enough to include a lot of them in a Vanguard set
Well we have two hints; in Thondia there is art of a bullgor and it does not look like the current minis at all, completely different. Given that GW generally has art stick pretty close to the minis it could mean a new kit there.
Then in Warcry there is a decently large region on the Gnarlwood map prominently labelled 'Centigor Hills' or somesuch. From the release schedule it is looking like each named region on the map will have some mini(s) associated with them.
But ultimately I'm not expecting anything. This is BoC after all.
Hey its more than Dwarves get besides endless (every single book) mentions and hints that Gotrek will unite them all and lead them on a great recovery of their holds and the realm of metal.
Overread wrote: Hey its more than Dwarves get besides endless (every single book) mentions and hints that Gotrek will unite them all and lead them on a great recovery of their holds and the realm of metal.
I dunno, I think that is composed more of people reading into things too much than actual evidence.
TwilightSparkles wrote: The chosen literally follow the same pricing model as many other “elite” AOS units so I’m not sure why anyone was surprised at the pricing.
This is a unit that is 240 points for 5. You don’t need tens of them. If you do then price to points wise it’s pretty good so you are still king a cheap ish army.
My battleplan revolved around 10 of them and a chaos lord working together to smash face.
Overread wrote: Hey its more than Dwarves get besides endless (every single book) mentions and hints that Gotrek will unite them all and lead them on a great recovery of their holds and the realm of metal.
I dunno, I think that is composed more of people reading into things too much than actual evidence.
I mean he's pretty blunt with his stance on wanting to return Dwarves to their holds and return them to power and all. It's been a core focus of at least two of the books. Sure he's not actually got anywhere with it, but its where he's been heading or at least trying to head. Then again each book tends to end up with him getting a new sub-focus and never really finding that either so he's jumping aorund a bit.
Of course considering that his quest through the whole of Old World was to find his Doom and he NEVER found it, it might be worrying if his new thing is finding a restoration for the Dwarves! They might have to wait until madness seeps into GW management and they axe Age of Sigmar to relaunch the brand as Age of the Dwarf!
And those are only there because they are shared over 40K and 30K. This has happened every year now around this time with FW removing a chunk of AoS models - a huge shame to have lost so many awesome sculpts over the years.
On the flip side, it means things will be staying plastic over resin. And hopefully that means kits like the mornghul, dread saurian etc will make the transition over.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: On the flip side, it means things will be staying plastic over resin. And hopefully that means kits like the mornghul, dread saurian etc will make the transition over.
Ummm...GW hasn't been doing plastic->FW resin conversions so nothing stays plastic due to this.
Yep, there's been no move to convert any of the lost FW models into plastics. Yes in theory they could come at some stage in the future, but we've not seen any of them make the transition so far. So if it is on the cards its a long long way off.
Heck one of the early models to vanish was the new heads for stormcast and those are the big showcase army for AoS and the only models actually made by FW for AoS (everything else was from Old World - with the Chaos Dragon being an End Times project that drifted into releasing during AoS because of how long it took to finish).
Right now the best we can hope for are "made to order" limited print runs in the future and potentially "OMG it was all moved to Old World coming back" or a very long way off "we moved them all to plastic" change.
But all those are iffy - right now far as we know all the models are lost to time
And definitely there won't be anything STAYING in plastic because resin models dissapeared. FW is doing new models. Not replacement for plastic which would go away. Some FW stuff becomes plastic by GW but no GW plastic has become resin.
For now best to assume they are gone for good. Plastic versions are super unlikely.
Overread wrote: Yep, there's been no move to convert any of the lost FW models into plastics. Yes in theory they could come at some stage in the future, but we've not seen any of them make the transition so far. So if it is on the cards its a long long way off.
Heck one of the early models to vanish was the new heads for stormcast and those are the big showcase army for AoS and the only models actually made by FW for AoS (everything else was from Old World - with the Chaos Dragon being an End Times project that drifted into releasing during AoS because of how long it took to finish).
Right now the best we can hope for are "made to order" limited print runs in the future and potentially "OMG it was all moved to Old World coming back" or a very long way off "we moved them all to plastic" change.
But all those are iffy - right now far as we know all the models are lost to time
If it goes extremely well for the players they'll take care to archive moulds + masters somewhere so they can eventually do a made-to-order series in the future if they wish.
If it goes as usual, they'll throw that stuff away to reduce storage cost and general overhead, and at that point the model is functionally OOP and lost to time.
That's just the hyperbolic doomer scenario that bears little resemblance to reality though. This isn't the eighties, people aren't recording over master copies of Three Stooges to re-use the tapes anymore. Loss of master molds these days will always be unintended.
Will probably happen to the 40k section before long. FW is Heresy now, with a touch of specialist games when they feel like it. When was the last time 40k even got a FW release?
I remember when FW published full-blown Fantasy campaign books with new models and factions, and had even announced the next one. But the creeping growth of HH slowly overtook them, and tbh part of me will always resent it for that.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I remember when FW published full-blown Fantasy campaign books with new models and factions
A full-blown Fantasy campaign book with new faction. They never got past the first one, the other planned ones were cancelled and the only other Fantasy book they put out was a Storm of Magic supplement that they only did like 1/3 of the models for.
I was rolling in Monstrous Arcanum, while not a campaign supplement it was a pretty big chunk of content. Had rules for use both with and without Storm of Magic.
I was hoping for a Boss on Snarlfang and a way to run Snarlfangs as battleline for an all mounted Gitmob army but that seems unlikely now on the plus side (money wise) I'll only be getting 2 boxes of Snarlfangs rather than lots.
Snarlfang feels like either GW experimenting with the theme; throwing it in for fun or slowgrowing the idea of a snarlfang group of goblins.
I could well see in time GW could slowly bring back a wolf chariot; leader on wolf; more wolf riders with other weapons and generally slowly give Snarlfang a chance at their own mini-force within a force. Much like the Trolls.
Overread wrote: Snarlfang feels like either GW experimenting with the theme; throwing it in for fun or slowgrowing the idea of a snarlfang group of goblins.
Overread wrote: Snarlfang feels like either GW experimenting with the theme; throwing it in for fun or slowgrowing the idea of a snarlfang group of goblins.
I could well see in time GW could slowly bring back a wolf chariot; leader on wolf; more wolf riders with other weapons and generally slowly give Snarlfang a chance at their own mini-force within a force. Much like the Trolls.
I understand they're hugely popular, and basically carry the destruction side alone, but the different variants of goblin get a bit much for me, and the comical names don't really help, it's all Nob-Glob Hobblagobs after a while. They also look very much like they're basic goblins in increasingly outlandish costumes - mostly because they are, i guess. Fine if you like that sort of thing, but i think a genuinely different style like with the Kruleboys is the better approach. The trolls also pull it off better than the smaller models.
Overread wrote: Snarlfang feels like either GW experimenting with the theme; throwing it in for fun or slowgrowing the idea of a snarlfang group of goblins.
I could well see in time GW could slowly bring back a wolf chariot; leader on wolf; more wolf riders with other weapons and generally slowly give Snarlfang a chance at their own mini-force within a force. Much like the Trolls.
I understand they're hugely popular, and basically carry the destruction side alone, but the different variants of goblin get a bit much for me, and the comical names don't really help, it's all Nob-Glob Hobblagobs after a while. They also look very much like they're basic goblins in increasingly outlandish costumes - mostly because they are, i guess. Fine if you like that sort of thing, but i think a genuinely different style like with the Kruleboys is the better approach. The trolls also pull it off better than the smaller models.
You'll buy your Gobbapalooza, featuring such characters as a boggleye, brewgit, scaremonger, and schroomancer, and you'll like it!
Beastmen Vanguard is okay, would have been amazing with the new beastlord in there, rather than another shaman, but other than that it's a decent follow-up purchase to the previous start collecting set, lower discount of course, but that's the way things are generally headed with vanguard sets.
I'll probably get two to bulk out the two start collecting sets I picked up, that will give some decent options for games of 6th edition / Kings of War, then I'll see what The Old World brings.
DaveC wrote: Prices no real surprise there looks like Vanguards are up to £85 and S2D wasn’t a once off.
The annual price increase happens just over a month from now and I believe it's GW's practice to price new kits released the same year but prior to the increase with the upcoming price so as not to hike the price of items so quickly after release.
You been sleeping for last 1.5 years regarding battletome prices?
I mean that's what they have been since start of aos3...
Id forgotten too tbh, last one i bought was Stormcast and that was alongside everything else that came out that day so didnt even see the price just clicked buy. Not everyone collects every army.
Voss wrote: Well. Kicked-out-the-door releases, as expected.
The Vanguards are... ok. I'll miss the Beastmen start collecting, though. It feels like a better box in terms of value and what's in it.
The Git Vanguard is... more of what's been in so many Git value boxes since their release, so doesn't feel interesting or particularly useful at all.
----
I look forward to teases for the stuff that's next that might get a real release.
I don't think any of the previous value boxes have included moonclan grots in them (I've bought them all so far, often multiple copies), so thats different at least.
You been sleeping for last 1.5 years regarding battletome prices?
I mean that's what they have been since start of aos3...
I told GW that I wouldn't be buying any of their printed material after what they did to the 8th ed. Death Guard codex. So I haven't even bothered looking at prices.
Saw the timestamp for an AoS youtuber reviewing the Beasts of Chaos battletome.
Nothing has been removed. There was some speculation that certain finecast monsters were getting the boot.
Slaangors made it in, to no one’s surprise. Hope they get a new warscroll, as I recall them being lackluster.
“Morghurite Chaos Spawn” seems to be a new unit, as Chaos Spawn are in the unit listing. Could just be a unit used in the Gavespawn Greatfray, as they were central to that sub-faction.
Gw hasn't been removing much units in aos3 so only surprise is razorgor as it doesn't seem to be on sale. Other 2 have been safe all the time as still on sale.
Good stuff. I'm sure GW is urgently trying to get AoS stuff out the gate knowing that the summer is going to be their big chance to convince people that 10th 40k isn't going to be 'more of the same' overbloated 9th edition.
And to the FW stuff... well, hard to be motivated to buy some of those models when half of them were hold-overs from Fantasy and then the handful of brand new things were so freakin expensive and niche. But hey, that's FW for you.
FW is likely clearing house to focus entirely on TOW.
In the meantime, I just hope more kits get updated plastic. Still praying for new Grave Guard and Black Knights...
Not sure about Black Knights, they aren't that old and duel kit with Nighthaunt. I could certainly see Grave Guard getting an update because they are showing their age quite a bit now and whilst they are in the Getting Started set, GW is pushing those out for Vanguard.
Varhiests getting an update would be nice too and those along with the zombie dragon/terrorgiest and ghouls could be a big update for Flesheaters (I mean that's basically the entire flesheater army right now)
Heck it would be cool to see the corpse cart get an update and if it did I'd love to see it pulled by ghost horses since when they fragmented vampires and took all the other ghosts out into Nighthaunt the Mortis Engine (and other builds) stands out as looking rather odd when its surrounded by ghosts and the rest of the Vampire army has none.
grave guard need an update for sure imho.
they dont mesh well at all with the new skeleton warriors.
black guard could use an update but arent that bad. personally i'd love to see them get an update as the nighthaunt hexwraiths are one of my least favorite units in the army due to how they look.
Overread wrote: Yeah random can be neat but at times an army can have so much that you can't really work with the random.
Agree. It's still random enough that stuff like a risky charge can exist, but it's not so totally random that strategic planning becomes impossible or your whole plan ruined by a couple of bad rolls in a row.
Reading a second hand report, but according to the Battle Report on Warhammer+ that pitted the new BoC vs. new GG, there was no use of summoning on the BoC end of things.
Could just be that the player didn't partake in that particular mechanic, or its gone outright. Which I'm fine with, as only a few armies should be making use of summoning imo. The player did use the Allherd subfaction mechanic, which replenishes units.
Im down with BoC getting special rallies as additional outflanking parties come in, etc. But yeah, full on summoning is not my favorite mechanic and even less so outside of actual daemon summons.
I would still like to see the day where summons are still in the list but at a reduced cost, and can be closer than 9" within their limited summon ranges.
Today's article clears up what a Morghurite Chaos Spawn is: it's a special form of Chaos Spawn that gets unlocked for Gavespawn armies, and has less-random movement as well as additional abilities:
This unique formation unlocks a sacred trio of Morghurite Chaos Spawn – though they still count as separate units for army construction purposes. These formless fiends sport more reliable Move and Attacks characteristics than normal Chaos Spawn – befitting a Battleline unit – and have strange new abilities of their own, such as flesh-melting Spews of Corruption.
The sculpts are still bad, but that scheme does a lot to hide the especially bad heads, while the normal studio scheme accentuates the problem areas
Yeah, low contrast between skin and fur to make it look more like the skin is furry and the patches are just thicker areas does wonders for the mini. Always mystified me why they went in the opposite direction.
In other news, spawn with decent stats? Hm, maybe they will have a golden age of being worth half the points you pay for them
The sculpts are still bad, but that scheme does a lot to hide the especially bad heads, while the normal studio scheme accentuates the problem areas
Yeah, low contrast between skin and fur to make it look more like the skin is furry and the patches are just thicker areas does wonders for the mini. Always mystified me why they went in the opposite direction.
It's amazing what happens when you don't look like you outlined every individual muscle with black.
In other news, spawn with decent stats? Hm, maybe they will have a golden age of being worth half the points you pay for them
In AoS silly! There were times in WHFB where they were useful after all.
They aren't necessarily bad in AoS either, when they are spawned for free during the game. But as something you pay points to bring in the list they've always sucked and sucked HARD. I remember when spawn were a meaningful threat of their own accord, rather than meat shield chaff one slaps down for free or not at all.
Spawn really need multiple 'tiers' or some other variance of power level. Because one spawn isn't equal to another any more than one human follower of Chaos is. A Chosen will beat the snot out of Marauders all day
New slann, new mounted skink on cold one, new saurus which possibly are warriors, but I'm not totally sure yet because the dewclaw on ten of the buggers at the same time but why not.
I'm betting on an army set Seraphon. Maybe not announced tonight and later on instead, but I want to believe.
CMLR wrote: New slann, new mounted skink on cold one, new saurus which possibly are warriors, but I'm not totally sure yet because the dewclaw on ten of the buggers at the same time but why not.
I'm betting on an army set Seraphon. Maybe not announced tonight and later on instead, but I want to believe.
Also more unrevealed. In a surprise this is a summer order so next battletome after gits will be kharadrons(might have just as well admitted it...)
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Tim the Biovore wrote: Kroxigor are No Longer Available alongside the resin Slann, so here's hoping that's a sign
I almost don’t care for the Slann because he looks too animated for a lazy frog boi. I just liked the whole sitting motionless thing they had going before.
Otherwise I’m glad I didn’t jump into lizards a month or two ago when I was tempted to with all this new stuff coming. Obviously new Saurus were needed more, but hopefully a new Skink kit too.
A cool as the new Saurus are I have a nitpick in that the shields aren't as good as the current scaly ones. The more decorated ones from the Temple Guard set are best.
lord_blackfang wrote: AoS certainly won this round of reveals on the Slann alone. Didn't expect to ever see a generic one in plastic after they did Kroak. 10/10 sculpt.
I was expecting it sooner or later. Better sooner though.
sockwithaticket wrote: A cool as the new Saurus are I have a nitpick in that the shields aren't as good as the current scaly ones. The more decorated ones from the Temple Guard set are best.
I disagree. I actually really like the new clean look of these shields.
Overall I like them. Curious on the cost and whether they'll rank up for WHFB, that and Blood Bowl would be the main reasons I'd be interested in buying them.
Overall I like them. Curious on the cost and whether they'll rank up for WHFB, that and Blood Bowl would be the main reasons I'd be interested in buying them.
Sat cross legged, left foot resting on right knee, right foot resting on left knee
Overall I like them. Curious on the cost and whether they'll rank up for WHFB, that and Blood Bowl would be the main reasons I'd be interested in buying them.
Sat cross legged, left foot resting on right knee, right foot resting on left knee
I want to see a Bretonnian Ogre eating a giant fried Slann leg
Overall I like them. Curious on the cost and whether they'll rank up for WHFB, that and Blood Bowl would be the main reasons I'd be interested in buying them.
Doubt it. One of the many lovely things about AoS sculpts is that no one has to be in the "ramrod, can't move lest I elbow someone in the face" poses.
Overall I like them. Curious on the cost and whether they'll rank up for WHFB, that and Blood Bowl would be the main reasons I'd be interested in buying them.
Sat cross legged, left foot resting on right knee, right foot resting on left knee
But the "feet" look strange, no? There's bulges that seem to be in the wrong places and the joints look disconnected, like an exoskeleton or something.
Overall I like them. Curious on the cost and whether they'll rank up for WHFB, that and Blood Bowl would be the main reasons I'd be interested in buying them.
Doubt it. One of the many lovely things about AoS sculpts is that no one has to be in the "ramrod, can't move lest I elbow someone in the face" poses.
It'll partly come down to the size of them I think.
Overall I like them. Curious on the cost and whether they'll rank up for WHFB, that and Blood Bowl would be the main reasons I'd be interested in buying them.
Sat cross legged, left foot resting on right knee, right foot resting on left knee
But the "feet" look strange, no? There's bulges that seem to be in the wrong places and the joints look disconnected, like an exoskeleton or something.
I think it looks weird because a lot of the leg is hidden under the bulging belly of the Slann. IMHO he's sitting in a meditation pose, cross legged, and is 'gripping' around each knee with the foot of the opposing leg.
So is it just me or does the pale version blatantly have some kind of super laser aperture on the front? I can get behind Slann palanquins getting a firepower upgrade.
Mr_Rose wrote: So is it just me or does the pale version blatantly have some kind of super laser aperture on the front? I can get behind Slann palanquins getting a firepower upgrade.
It may be the Shield of the Old Ones, but it certainly looks Death-Star-y and is also painted in the same shading as the Skink Cavalry raygun-staves.
Honestly really awesome to think that we'll get a big update to the Lizardmen -- er Seraphon - this year! Those new mounts and riders utterly blow the current ones out of the water so I really hope GW doubles down and replaces all the mounted troops (of course excluding the Carno/Trog massive one).
Lizardmen and Cities of Sigmar getting big updates are good things!
Overread wrote: Honestly really awesome to think that we'll get a big update to the Lizardmen -- er Seraphon - this year! Those new mounts and riders utterly blow the current ones out of the water so I really hope GW doubles down and replaces all the mounted troops (of course excluding the Carno/Trog massive one).
Lizardmen and Cities of Sigmar getting big updates are good things!
I don't like the meme-face on the new riding beasts too much, but i think that's mostly the paintjob and the model itself is fine.
Skinks,
Temple Guard,
Knights,
Kroxigor,
Salamaders/Razors as some sort of dual kit.
Left:
Carno/Trog
Stegadon
Bastiladon
Terradons
And then it's a toss up if any of the foot characters are left or updated.
I’d be fine with this list. I don’t think any of the big things really need a rework, it’s all the foot troops who need it most, plus cav if they’re generous.
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tneva82 wrote: They fill 32mm round base pretty much completely with just legs.
They look more like they’re on 40s in the new picture they just posted to their Facebook.
AduroT wrote: How hard would it be to dual kit the Temple Guard into the Saurus? Just helmets and weapons?
Guards also have more armour, but that can be done by bits to add. Conversely, they have halberds and the Saurus can have spears, so you don't even have to exchange the whole weapon, but just weapon heads. Pointy bit for spears, something like an aztec war club for halberds could work.
AduroT wrote: I’m just going to hold out hope for a new Skinks kit because I’ve always been far more fond of those little dudes than the Saurus…
I've been disappointed with GW's skinks lately. We had the giant eyed Blood Bowl ones that looked like they'd taken too many blows to the head, and these ones have a weird smiley face going on that just looks odd to me.
I'm tempted to buy a bunch of old skinks just in case they decide to release a new kit with the smiley faces. Even though I don't play AoS it'd be nice to have enough models to fill out my WHFB army if I ever get back around to working on it.
They look more like they’re on 40s in the new picture they just posted to their Facebook.
They're on 32mm. Chaos Warriors didn't went up in base size, being also in 32mm, and Saurus Warriors on 40mm with Temple Guard on 32mm would be hilariously tragic.
Seraphon definitely won this round of reveals. Hands down the breath of fresh air that I think many people needed.
After so many space marines, 30k, and the dread of 10th edition looming on the horizon, it's nice to know that there's still some fun designs coming out of AoS.
This is apparently under half, so let's assume 4 more kits are coming, and I'll assume that means 2 updated and 2 new. If it were me, I'd hope Kroxigor and Saurus Knights get the update.
Would LOVE to see Saurus Knights get to be the size of Varanguard, and nearly as potent. Make those cold ones really scary in AoS!
They look more like they’re on 40s in the new picture they just posted to their Facebook.
They're on 32mm. Chaos Warriors didn't went up in base size, being also in 32mm, and Saurus Warriors on 40mm with Temple Guard on 32mm would be hilariously tragic.
Chosen went from 32 to 40 though, so it isn't unprecedented this year.
sockwithaticket wrote: A cool as the new Saurus are I have a nitpick in that the shields aren't as good as the current scaly ones. The more decorated ones from the Temple Guard set are best.
I disagree. I actually really like the new clean look of these shields.
Same here. Though a perfect world would see clean ones and scavenged/repaired ones as customization for Starborne & Coalesced, I feel what we're getting better matches the fluff. As do the saurus themselves, it is fantastic to seem them bulk out to match the primordial hulks they are described as. And they just look great overall while maintaining that unique Saurus aesthetic.
Slaan also looks excellent, and REALLY benefits from the literal design space offered by a round base.
But the clear winners here are the cocaine chickens. They look so energetic and so happy! Like psychopathic murder puppies! I love them <3
Saurus are really good. As others have said they’ve been bulked up beautifully, getting the right mix between muscular and lean.
I think a chunk of it for me are their tails, and how those have helped inform the poses, that they’re not just there for the sake of being there, but looking to be helping them maintain balance in combat.
The clubs and shields are particularly nifty, looking just the right mix of well made, yet primitively vicious, but I’ve not yet seen their spears.
Of course, this means we now need new Temple Guard and Saurus Cavalry updated to this much nicer aesthetic. Especially the Temple Guard who despite being Elite Infantry now look much too scrawny.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Saurus are really good. As others have said they’ve been bulked up beautifully, getting the right mix between muscular and lean.
I think a chunk of it for me are their tails, and how those have helped inform the poses, that they’re not just there for the sake of being there, but looking to be helping them maintain balance in combat.
The clubs and shields are particularly nifty, looking just the right mix of well made, yet primitively vicious, but I’ve not yet seen their spears.
Of course, this means we now need new Temple Guard and Saurus Cavalry updated to this much nicer aesthetic. Especially the Temple Guard who despite being Elite Infantry now look much too scrawny.
Roll on the rest of the reveals.
Wonder if they can’t make Temple Guard a dual kit with the Saurus. Alternate heads, some add-on armor plates, alternate halberd head for the spear arms.. Could be doable.
Such a great looking army so far. Honestly I hope we get a total range refresh. Even the recent carnosaur could use a new rider that looks closer to the revamped saurus
If we can get new Temple Guard, Saurus Knights, Kroxigor, and maybe a foot and mounted lord, I can live with all the other common units. Skinks aren't that bad, dinos look good still.
Oh baby these new Seraphon are looking just fantastic. Can't wait to get my grubby hands on all of them!
The old astrolith bearer is one of the couple models I own but haven't painted yet. I should probably do that before the new one comes out and I can't bear to deal with the old finecrap lol.
GaroRobe wrote: Even the recent carnosaur could use a new rider that looks closer to the revamped saurus
The Carnosaur Oldblood looks significantly more like the new Warriors than the existing kits. The increase in sculpt quality from 2003-2013 was so astronomical that there's not really all that much an update from 2013-2023 can improve on. Only reason to update the Carnosaur kit now would be to bring the traditional Mesoamerican aesthetic more in line with the new ancient technology style, and I guess a different pose for the Carnosaur itself would be welcome too.
They can definitely redo the footslogging Oldblood clampack though, I'd love a customizable kit that can build a Scar Veteran, Oldblood or Sunblood.
Temple Guard, Saurus Knights and Kroxigors seem like safe bets at this point, and if we get Saurus Knights then I feel it'd be all but guaranteed we'll get a Scar-Veteran (/Oldblood) on a Cold One. Eternity Warden similarly likely if we get Temple Guard, plus it'd replace a resin miniature which seems to be one of the driving philosophies lately. I'd love for the Salamanders and Razordons to get the 3-model kit treatment each, a dual kit seems very unlikely without wasting a huge amount of plastic, but with the four releases revealed, three more units already very likely, and the strong possibility of at least one more footslogger and one mounted hero, I can't expect we'll see much more unless this ends up being an update to rival Soulblight (13 new plastic kits, if I counted correctly, but 6 of them were for Cursed City)
im still hoping for 1 or 2 brand new BIG dinos (please a thunderlizard -- the size of that necron apocaylpse model some years ago) i can dream. or atleast a dread saurian or an arcanadon?
Also a mazdamundi character kit with its own unique stegadon?
Im assuming the knights, kroxigors will get updated for sure..
GaroRobe wrote: Even the recent carnosaur could use a new rider that looks closer to the revamped saurus
The Carnosaur Oldblood looks significantly more like the new Warriors than the existing kits. The increase in sculpt quality from 2003-2013 was so astronomical that there's not really all that much an update from 2013-2023 can improve on. Only reason to update the Carnosaur kit now would be to bring the traditional Mesoamerican aesthetic more in line with the new ancient technology style, and I guess a different pose for the Carnosaur itself would be welcome too.
The oldblood on carnosaur has a super sweet "ancient technology" laser robot hand.
Just wish they would preview next books as well. Funny they start lizard hype now while not even admit kharadrons being next also would be nice to hear khorne or slaanesh first, or both?
But good kit. As locally there's tons of lgzard players looking forward facing these on field
An old favourite game of mine was an RTS called Rise of Legends.
One of the three factions was basically a mesoamerican people that build their civilization on top of the ruins of a destroyed space ship. So THEY had spears that shoot lásers, and their gods were giant Stone golems that were robots underneat.
I always liked that, and Im glad new lizardmen integrate that into their miniatures without going overboard with It.
tneva82 wrote: Just wish they would preview next books as well. Funny they start lizard hype now while not even admit kharadrons being next also would be nice to hear khorne or slaanesh first, or both?
Well, chances are they're not getting many - if any - new models, so there's not much to show off!
GaroRobe wrote: Such a great looking army so far. Honestly I hope we get a total range refresh. Even the recent carnosaur could use a new rider that looks closer to the revamped saurus
Some people, including me, have already speculated that the rumour engine from last January 31st is a Kroxigor Moonhammer:
With any luck, we might get Boxigors from TWWHII:
And if GW REALLY loves us as much as they imply, they might do a case like the Terradons, where you can build the unit or make a named hero (Tiktaq'to) and two generic heroes (skink chiefs on Terra or Ripper, at the same time even), and let you make a new, hero Kroxigor, like the one they made precisely for TWWII, or even Nakai, if they are going to make the kit compatible with TOW, which they should do.
And then I remember plastic Farsight is coming too.
tneva82 wrote: Just wish they would preview next books as well. Funny they start lizard hype now while not even admit kharadrons being next also would be nice to hear khorne or slaanesh first, or both?
Well, chances are they're not getting many - if any - new models, so there's not much to show off!
the reveals at vegas open, when they showed the clip and the 3 sets (slann, skink riders, new saurus) they said thats less than half of the new sets for the lizards coming . So if we take it literally, 3 being less than half - so 7 or 8 sets? we now know the 4th (the banner holder?)
tneva82 wrote: Just wish they would preview next books as well. Funny they start lizard hype now while not even admit kharadrons being next also would be nice to hear khorne or slaanesh first, or both?
Well, chances are they're not getting many - if any - new models, so there's not much to show off!
the reveals at vegas open, when they showed the clip and the 3 sets (slann, skink riders, new saurus) they said thats less than half of the new sets for the lizards coming . So if we take it literally, 3 being less than half - so 7 or 8 sets? we now know the 4th (the banner holder?)
tneva82 wrote: Just wish they would preview next books as well. Funny they start lizard hype now while not even admit kharadrons being next also would be nice to hear khorne or slaanesh first, or both?
Well, chances are they're not getting many - if any - new models, so there's not much to show off!
the reveals at vegas open, when they showed the clip and the 3 sets (slann, skink riders, new saurus) they said thats less than half of the new sets for the lizards coming . So if we take it literally, 3 being less than half - so 7 or 8 sets? we now know the 4th (the banner holder?)
SF
Pretty sure that comment was aimed at Air Dwarves and the chaos books, not lizards.
The release order they've shown is Spring- Order, Chaos, Chaos, Death, Death and then another Order book in Summer.
Odds are really high that at least 3 (if not 4) of those six books will be book and a single model. I'd go even further and suggest that one of the death books will get the other big release, because both ghouls and ossiarchs are rather thin product lines. One of those will get love (odds on ossiarchs).
drbored wrote: What a glow-up! That is a huge improvement over the old!
The fact we're also seeing rules could imply that we might get these sooner rather than later!
(For those about to correct me about the 'summer', GW clarified in the reveal article that it was "end of Spring")
Love the threatening pose, the mix of celestial and aztec-themed details, and just how SWOLE he is compared to the old anemic bearer!
Well there's 5 books before these so end of spring stlll far. Iirc summer begins late june anyway. Winter ends late march.
Ko next and that looks to be march seeing we haven't seen anything yet. Then khorne&slaanesh and then 2 death. Then seraphons.
End of spring could be first half of june.
Edit 20 march to 21 june is spring 2023.
What does GW have left to release in Winter? All I can think of is black library celebration and Underworlds. Arks of Omen 3 and all the AoS tomes are spring. They don't have enough releases to fill the first three weeks of March.
I think GW sees spring as March to May. Also I'm expecting a Seraphon army set in March which is why they are previewing it now before KO etc.
There are odds and ends like the second wave of Imperial Guard, Cawdor scrap walkers and the latest Horus Heresy tank. Guard could take up a week on its own at least.
Edit: And GW just announced three new boarding patrols for 40k with the hint that more will come:
This carries over into planning for business, government, social, etc. So if you said something was coming Spring and it came out 10th March people would consider the target of Spring hit despite astronomically it being Winter. Similarly if you said Spring and it came out June 3rd they would consider it to have missed Spring and slipped into Summer.
This seems to follow with what they said on the stream saying that there would be pretty much two battle tombs a month over a three month period. Note they didn't say over three months, a three month period can encompass four different months. So likely release schedule is 1 Tome late March, 2 in April, 2 in May and Seraphon early June. Totalling five in Spring and one in Summer which matches the Road Map they provided.
Early March is looking a little sparse. With WE out on the 11th and KT/Warcry the week after, I am surprised they didn't split those latter two up to take them through to the end of Feb at least. Second Guard wave is due and they have committed to an Arks of Omen book per month so one weekend in March will be that. Still all they need to do is make it to the next round of reveals at Adepticon.
Geifer wrote: There are odds and ends like the second wave of Imperial Guard, Cawdor scrap walkers and the latest Horus Heresy tank. Guard could take up a week on its own at least.
Edit: And GW just announced three new boarding patrols for 40k with the hint that more will come:
I'd say that gives GW plenty to release before the spring AoS releases.
Maybe but I see the boarding action boxes as coming alongside each of the books, 2 or 3 boxes per book. Guard are only three boxes and gw have been averaging about 10 releases a week this year. I could see a specialist games/Underworlds pre-order on the 25th and a week of left over 40k on the 4th. I was expecting warcry and Kill team to each get their own week as they did for the previous sets but gw putting them out together alongside the individual releases of old kits and a Horus plastic kit suggests GW are upping the pace this year.
Those would be Meteorlogical Seasons, instead of the Astronomical Seasons most think of as that's what they learnt in school. Most US businesses and governments use quarters (e.g., January to March, etc.). instead.
drbored wrote: What a glow-up! That is a huge improvement over the old!
The fact we're also seeing rules could imply that we might get these sooner rather than later!
(For those about to correct me about the 'summer', GW clarified in the reveal article that it was "end of Spring")
Love the threatening pose, the mix of celestial and aztec-themed details, and just how SWOLE he is compared to the old anemic bearer!
Well there's 5 books before these so end of spring stlll far. Iirc summer begins late june anyway. Winter ends late march.
Ko next and that looks to be march seeing we haven't seen anything yet. Then khorne&slaanesh and then 2 death. Then seraphons.
End of spring could be first half of june.
Edit 20 march to 21 june is spring 2023.
What does GW have left to release in Winter? All I can think of is black library celebration and Underworlds. Arks of Omen 3 and all the AoS tomes are spring. They don't have enough releases to fill the first three weeks of March.
I think GW sees spring as March to May. Also I'm expecting a Seraphon army set in March which is why they are previewing it now before KO etc.
Last year fyreslayers were winter and it came in march. Following the official definition pretty well and buggering me no end as i had hoped february release based on winter.
Those would be Meteorlogical Seasons, instead of the Astronomical Seasons most think of as that's what they learnt in school. Most US businesses and governments use quarters (e.g., January to March, etc.). instead.
Not quite sure what is taught in US schools has to do with a UK company where the norm is for the seasons to be laid out Dec-Feb, Mar-May,etc.
Those would be Meteorlogical Seasons, instead of the Astronomical Seasons most think of as that's what they learnt in school. Most US businesses and governments use quarters (e.g., January to March, etc.). instead.
Not quite sure what is taught in US schools has to do with a UK company where the norm is for the seasons to be laid out Dec-Feb, Mar-May,etc.
Tthat they're called Meteorological Seasons and they aren't unique to the UK and are in use in other places (such as the US) for some things.
Those would be Meteorlogical Seasons, instead of the Astronomical Seasons most think of as that's what they learnt in school. Most US businesses and governments use quarters (e.g., January to March, etc.). instead.
Not quite sure what is taught in US schools has to do with a UK company where the norm is for the seasons to be laid out Dec-Feb, Mar-May,etc.
Tthat they're called Meteorological Seasons and they aren't unique to the UK and are in use in other places (such as the US) for some things.
People saying Cold Ones will get pseudo monstrous cavalry size, a la Gore-gruntas and Juggernauts, are just not considering TOW and that Raptadons are just light cavalry.
However, I would expect Horned Ones head options, who got mentioned all the time in fluff but never got actual models.
CMLR wrote: People saying Cold Ones will get pseudo monstrous cavalry size, a la Gore-gruntas and Juggernauts, are just not considering TOW and that Raptadons are just light cavalry.
However, I would expect Horned Ones head options, who got mentioned all the time in fluff but never got actual models.
Horned Ones had models back in 6th edition, there was a regiment of renown and a special character for them.
CMLR wrote: People saying Cold Ones will get pseudo monstrous cavalry size, a la Gore-gruntas and Juggernauts, are just not considering TOW and that Raptadons are just light cavalry.
However, I would expect Horned Ones head options, who got mentioned all the time in fluff but never got actual models.
How would tow affect it? Fb had such sized cavalry before. They can have it again.
CMLR wrote: People saying Cold Ones will get pseudo monstrous cavalry size, a la Gore-gruntas and Juggernauts, are just not considering TOW and that Raptadons are just light cavalry.
However, I would expect Horned Ones head options, who got mentioned all the time in fluff but never got actual models.
How would tow affect it? Fb had such sized cavalry before. They can have it again.
People somehow got it in their heads that AoS Seraphon would be dual-use and double as TOW Lizardmen, and are looking desparately for signs of that being true, like models 'made to rank up' and such. There's no real base for that assumption, and so far no evidence for it being anything but wishful thinking.
CMLR wrote: People saying Cold Ones will get pseudo monstrous cavalry size, a la Gore-gruntas and Juggernauts, are just not considering TOW and that Raptadons are just light cavalry.
However, I would expect Horned Ones head options, who got mentioned all the time in fluff but never got actual models.
How would tow affect it? Fb had such sized cavalry before. They can have it again.
People somehow got it in their heads that AoS Seraphon would be dual-use and double as TOW Lizardmen, and are looking desparately for signs of that being true, like models 'made to rank up' and such. There's no real base for that assumption, and so far no evidence for it being anything but wishful thinking.
So they making another Kroak, Slann and Warriors for TOW? or just selling the old ones again? What would GW do?
CMLR wrote: People saying Cold Ones will get pseudo monstrous cavalry size, a la Gore-gruntas and Juggernauts, are just not considering TOW and that Raptadons are just light cavalry.
However, I would expect Horned Ones head options, who got mentioned all the time in fluff but never got actual models.
How would tow affect it? Fb had such sized cavalry before. They can have it again.
Yes, but not Cold Ones, nor Horned ones. I wouldn't care they adding a new kind of monstruous cavalry, but there will inevitably who will lost their sanity for "retconing" new dinosaurs into TOW.
CMLR wrote: People saying Cold Ones will get pseudo monstrous cavalry size, a la Gore-gruntas and Juggernauts, are just not considering TOW and that Raptadons are just light cavalry.
However, I would expect Horned Ones head options, who got mentioned all the time in fluff but never got actual models.
Horned Ones had models back in 6th edition, there was a regiment of renown and a special character for them.
Only the named character had a Horned One, the RoR had Cold Ones. And they were tail end 5th, not 6th, though the RoR did get 6th Ed rules near Lustria campaign.
CMLR wrote: People saying Cold Ones will get pseudo monstrous cavalry size, a la Gore-gruntas and Juggernauts, are just not considering TOW and that Raptadons are just light cavalry.
However, I would expect Horned Ones head options, who got mentioned all the time in fluff but never got actual models.
Horned Ones had models back in 6th edition, there was a regiment of renown and a special character for them.
CMLR wrote: People saying Cold Ones will get pseudo monstrous cavalry size, a la Gore-gruntas and Juggernauts, are just not considering TOW and that Raptadons are just light cavalry.
However, I would expect Horned Ones head options, who got mentioned all the time in fluff but never got actual models.
How would tow affect it? Fb had such sized cavalry before. They can have it again.
People somehow got it in their heads that AoS Seraphon would be dual-use and double as TOW Lizardmen, and are looking desparately for signs of that being true, like models 'made to rank up' and such. There's no real base for that assumption, and so far no evidence for it being anything but wishful thinking.
So they making another Kroak, Slann and Warriors for TOW? or just selling the old ones again? What would GW do?
CMLR wrote: People saying Cold Ones will get pseudo monstrous cavalry size, a la Gore-gruntas and Juggernauts, are just not considering TOW and that Raptadons are just light cavalry.
However, I would expect Horned Ones head options, who got mentioned all the time in fluff but never got actual models.
How would tow affect it? Fb had such sized cavalry before. They can have it again.
Yes, but not Cold Ones, nor Horned ones. I wouldn't care they adding a new kind of monstruous cavalry, but there will inevitably who will lost their sanity for "retconing" new dinosaurs into TOW.
Re-release the old models. They're there, they're designed to rank up and are immediately available. Because they're not going to resculpt every army from the ground up and the new Seraphon are obviously not designed with ranking in mind. The tails and wide stances don't work for it.
Re-release the old models. They're there, they're designed to rank up and are immediately available. Because they're not going to resculpt every army from the ground up and the new Seraphon are obviously not designed with ranking in mind. The tails and wide stances don't work for it.
An entire new debate as to why would they re-release the previous kits if they are going to make new stuf for TOW anyway, considering it's timeline is a few centuries before what happened in End Times.
Also the tails didn't really work that well for the old sculpts either.
It's not really a debate but common sense. The molds are sitting there, ready to use. Sure they'll be new stuff, but the vast bulk can be just made immediately. And not even the Heresy got a massive range from the get go and that's made up by marines, the single most popular faction they make.
Kanluwen wrote: Whitefang over on The Grand Alliance commented on this list with "now choose 4 of 5" before GW's reveal of the Astrolith Bearer:
1. Astrolith Bearer
2. Kroxigors
3. Salamander/Razordons
4. Big New monster
5. Saurus Cavalry
Personal speculation is that we won't see a big new monster but Saurus Cavalry will be bumped up in size to something monstrous-ish.
If it's a choice between upgrading a sad old resin model and making a new centerpiece model to sell, I think GW would lean heavily in the new monster direction. My guess is Salamanders are out of luck this time around.
They've been out of luck for a couple decades now.
I'd much rather see the sad old models replaced. (Same with the Krox, and saurus cav really needs to match the new warriors. Though so do temple guard...)
We still don't really know how ranking will work in TOW at all at this point, so I think it's pointless to speculate until we do. We might be looking at significant base size increases across the board and a much larger role for movement tray adaptors.
Apparently the Bloodpelt Hunter has a sneak peek at what the resculpted Saurus Cavalry's mounts will look like, at least in terms of the head which he's using as a quiver.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: It's not really a debate but common sense. The molds are sitting there, ready to use. Sure they'll be new stuff, but the vast bulk can be just made immediately. And not even the Heresy got a massive range from the get go and that's made up by marines, the single most popular faction they make.
Common sense is a fallacy. And why won't TOW players deserve new and better miniatures? More when they are basically the same army with different bases.
CMLR wrote: People saying Cold Ones will get pseudo monstrous cavalry size, a la Gore-gruntas and Juggernauts, are just not considering TOW and that Raptadons are just light cavalry.
However, I would expect Horned Ones head options, who got mentioned all the time in fluff but never got actual models.
Horned Ones had models back in 6th edition, there was a regiment of renown and a special character for them.
Only the named character had a Horned One, the RoR had Cold Ones. And they were tail end 5th, not 6th, though the RoR did get 6th Ed rules near Lustria campaign.
At some point in time the rules called them Horned Ones, at others Cold Ones.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: It's not really a debate but common sense. The molds are sitting there, ready to use. Sure they'll be new stuff, but the vast bulk can be just made immediately. And not even the Heresy got a massive range from the get go and that's made up by marines, the single most popular faction they make.
Common sense is a fallacy. And why won't TOW players deserve new and better miniatures? More when they are basically the same army with different bases.
No wonder it's so rare. Deserve? I'm talking about practicality. You can't possibly expect over a dozen armies to get complete resculpts at launch. The sheer amount of money and resources would be absurd on top of everything else they do currently.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: It's not really a debate but common sense. The molds are sitting there, ready to use. Sure they'll be new stuff, but the vast bulk can be just made immediately. And not even the Heresy got a massive range from the get go and that's made up by marines, the single most popular faction they make.
Common sense is a fallacy. And why won't TOW players deserve new and better miniatures? More when they are basically the same army with different bases.
If you are expecting tow get every army with all new sculpts at once you are expecting unprecedent amount of support vast outpacing what marines have ever had. Outpace 40k and aos combined.
That's just unrealistic. Gw would have to expect tow to immediately outsell 40k&aos combined.
No wonder it's so rare. Deserve? I'm talking about practicality. You can't possibly expect over a dozen armies to get complete resculpts at launch. The sheer amount of money and resources would be absurd on top of everything else they do currently.
Is not rare. Is doesn't exist. What is common sense for someone is ludacrous for someone else, more if we are talking about perspectives or cultures.
If they already will share a good bunch of sculpts, why not share them all at once? Is not like they made the new Chaos Warriors on 50mm bases. Scale creep is not that huge (yet) and Blood Knight can still rank and file just fine.
If you are expecting tow get every army with all new sculpts at once you are expecting unprecedent amount of support vast outpacing what marines have ever had.
I'm not. I'm just saying that you can't know if they will just reuse no longer available kits for TOW or just give square bases to AoS.
They won't give them squares because they haven't been designed for it. Three points:
1) They stated at the start that all old armies would be immediately usable. Which they can't be if they change the base sizes out from the get go.
2) The new sculpts haven't been designed with ranking in mind. As has been stated before with outstretched arms, wide stances and so on.
3) The aesthetics. Immediately chaos warriors and Kroak as examples have been designed with no thought to TOW as both have Stormcast trophies/armour on them. Not something you're going to see on old fantasy.
So can we please stop this speculation when everything points to the systems not crossing over.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: They won't give them squares because they haven't been designed for it. Three points:
1) They stated at the start that all old armies would be immediately usable. Which they can't be if they change the base sizes out from the get go.
2) The new sculpts haven't been designed with ranking in mind. As has been stated before with outstretched arms, wide stances and so on.
3) The aesthetics. Immediately chaos warriors and Kroak as examples have been designed with no thought to TOW as both have Stormcast trophies/armour on them. Not something you're going to see on old fantasy.
So can we please stop this speculation when everything points to the systems not crossing over.
agreed. hopium and copium are heckin strong drugs, but some people really need to wean off of it when it comes to TOW.
Kanluwen wrote: Whitefang over on The Grand Alliance commented on this list with "now choose 4 of 5" before GW's reveal of the Astrolith Bearer:
1. Astrolith Bearer
2. Kroxigors
3. Salamander/Razordons
4. Big New monster
5. Saurus Cavalry
Personal speculation is that we won't see a big new monster but Saurus Cavalry will be bumped up in size to something monstrous-ish.
Hoping for a new large/very large (like the bases of the larger fantasy creatures/stuff like the necron pylons/mega pylon thing/baneblade, etc) . It would be nice for new cold ones that look good and making them like monstrous sized would be cool. that head on the ogre model i do like although something more savage like a young carnosaur style cavalry would be nice.
Not a fan of the banner guy. not in terms of models, but in terms of it taking up a slot. hoping for 5 or 6 more kits beyond the 3 we saw in the vegas reveal (due to what they said) but annoying a banner bearer takes up one.
so from that list above, im hoping for: 2, 4, 5 (since we know 1 is there).
Didnt before, (and i know. im old. im thinking of the WH6-8 era), new army releases got a big showpiece (ie. monster/vehicle) and a new hero/lord? so for example, kroak was last year or the year before. so thats done. We know a slann is coming. So wouldnt they want a big new showpiece that people will want, even those that dont play warhammer? like an awesome model.
I was still hoping for that AND a mazdamundi character kit - brand new larger stegadon model with maz on it would be cool!!!
CMLR wrote: I'm not. I'm just saying that you can't know if they will just reuse no longer available kits for TOW or just give square bases to AoS.
Oh sure. 40mm square bases for basic infantry then
You DO realize right that the AOS models won't rank up without serious upscaling of squares right? It was getting silly hard end of FB. Models have become even more unrankable since then.
CMLR wrote: People saying Cold Ones will get pseudo monstrous cavalry size, a la Gore-gruntas and Juggernauts, are just not considering TOW and that Raptadons are just light cavalry.
However, I would expect Horned Ones head options, who got mentioned all the time in fluff but never got actual models.
Horned Ones had models back in 6th edition, there was a regiment of renown and a special character for them.
Only the named character had a Horned One, the RoR had Cold Ones. And they were tail end 5th, not 6th, though the RoR did get 6th Ed rules near Lustria campaign.
At some point in time the rules called them Horned Ones, at others Cold Ones.
That's the 6th ed Lustria rules, which needed a way to differentiate them from the existing Cold One Saurus that didn't exist when they were first released. They don't match the descriptions of Horned Ones from the very book existing at that time(since you could still take a Horned One as a magic item). The Box even literally calls them "Cold One Riders", despite the 6th ed rules.
Gw finally bothered to reveal what everybody knew was coming next
Cover nice, model looks good. Too bad no ko's locally except on store staff who can't play on game nights(what with work) so odds of seeing against is very low.
That's probably my favorite KO model yet. Full of character, but somehow not over the top.
I just wish GW didn't go the stormcast route with KO. They avoided having any helmetless models during the initial release, and then after some exclusive models without helmets (knight errant, I think? and Jakob Bugmansson) now its okay to have unhelmeted models. (For the record, I'm very pro-helmetless models. I just wish we had a larger selection for the KO.)
Those would be Meteorlogical Seasons, instead of the Astronomical Seasons most think of as that's what they learnt in school. Most US businesses and governments use quarters (e.g., January to March, etc.). instead.
Not quite sure what is taught in US schools has to do with a UK company where the norm is for the seasons to be laid out Dec-Feb, Mar-May,etc.
Tthat they're called Meteorological Seasons and they aren't unique to the UK and are in use in other places (such as the US) for some things.
I never said they were unique to the UK. All I said were that they were what the UK used for seasons generally and as such would be what GW are using. There was no need to turn it into an argument about who uses what where.
Those would be Meteorlogical Seasons, instead of the Astronomical Seasons most think of as that's what they learnt in school. Most US businesses and governments use quarters (e.g., January to March, etc.). instead.
Not quite sure what is taught in US schools has to do with a UK company where the norm is for the seasons to be laid out Dec-Feb, Mar-May,etc.
Tthat they're called Meteorological Seasons and they aren't unique to the UK and are in use in other places (such as the US) for some things.
I never said they were unique to the UK. All I said were that they were what the UK used for seasons generally and as such would be what GW are using. There was no need to turn it into an argument about who uses what where.
Your description was unnecessary and a bit condescending, that was the problem. All that was needed was a simple statement to the effect that for GW's purposes, 'Spring' would be from the first of March to the first of May.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Votann could actually do with some character like this. the whole range is so incredibly boring.
Well my full purchased Votann collection disagrees
How many armies do you have flooded with details on top of details to the point theres not even a focus point? Too many.
The KO definitely have some models that just have random bits and bobs because "aether science" though it's not an army wide problem. Personally, this model notwithstanding, I think the main KO paint scheme does a huge disservice to the models. Everything is gold or bright metal, and its hard to have a focus point on a single model. That's why I'm glad this model exists. He's got some color to break away from all the shiny armor, and even without the book, the lack of a helmet allows the face and beard to serve as a focal point.
Kanluwen wrote: Apparently the Bloodpelt Hunter has a sneak peek at what the resculpted Saurus Cavalry's mounts will look like, at least in terms of the head which he's using as a quiver.
Spoiler:
If that's accurate, I like it. Looks more like an actual creature and less something liberated from Jim Henson's dumpster.
This is the first mainline Kharadron model that has a non-helmet option right? As far as I remember only special edition releases like Drekki Flynt had options for bare heads until now
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Votann could actually do with some character like this. the whole range is so incredibly boring.
Well my full purchased Votann collection disagrees
How many armies do you have flooded with details on top of details to the point theres not even a focus point? Too many.
The KO definitely have some models that just have random bits and bobs because "aether science" though it's not an army wide problem. Personally, this model notwithstanding, I think the main KO paint scheme does a huge disservice to the models. Everything is gold or bright metal, and it's hard to have a focus point on a single model. That's why I'm glad this model exists. He's got some color to break away from all the shiny armor, and even without the book, the lack of a helmet allows the face and beard to serve as a focal point.
Yeah metallics dont do justice to minis with plenty of details for sure. I can take some bit of "aether science" no worries there, as long has the model has more to it than just that.
If you look at the detail pics from the back and sides on the GW site you will see what I mean. Too many detail for the sake of it and just floods what could be a cool model. BTW adding details is not the same has adding character. Pose, clear intent and nice design is more important.
