BigRed wrote:There's word of a new Space Marine vehicle in the works. Here's the latest we've heard.

Apparently this is the big "new kit" to accompany the updated Codex:Space Marines.

-The term "Space Marine Gunship" has been mentioned.
-It's NOT the Stormraven
-It's NOT the Caestus Assault Ram
-Its NOT an "assault themed" vehicle
-There are whispers of that ancient bit of fluff regarding the "missing link transport" Astartes vehicle.

Think about the existing Space Marine vehicle range to see where the obvious holes are if you were in charge of designing a range of fighting vehicles for the Astartes.

Also note that for the first time ever for an Edition changeover, the Space Marine range may be kind of challenging to expand upon in a big way due to its existing size and almost 100% plastic status.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2011/12/40k-rumors-space-marine-mystery-vehicle.html

StraightSilver added to that:

Yep, basically during one of the seminars at UK games day somebody asked the question "why do only Blood Angels and Grey Knights get Storm Ravens?".

The answer was essentially, they are the only 2 chapters that still use them, and other chapters won't get them, but that doesn't mean that other chapters don't have their own variation.

Almost all Codexes since the last IG one have hada model which uses the new oval flying stand.

Space Wolves seem to be the exception, 'Nids will have the harpy at some point which will be on that stand.

This is because those stands are actually quite expensive to initially produce, mainly due to the clear plastic, and so it is more cost effective to release lots of models that use it to recoup some of the money.

Therfore it stands to reason that the new Space Marine Codex will have some form of flyer in it.

It won't be the Thunderhawk though as GW have stated they will no longer be copying FW designs any more.

Having said that in a couple of instances that has just meant a different model (ie IG Manticore).

I suspect due to the massive unpopularity of the Storm Raven kit it will be like a Storm Raven, only better if that makes sense?

(...)
It's not impossible they would do a T.Hawk.

It would just have to be different design-wise to the FW one, to give people the option of buying one or the other (they wouldn't want FW to lose sales)

Jes Goodwin did say that they are now able to use 2ups instead of 3ups when designing plastics which makes making really big models that much easier.

However believe it or not the biggest restriction on kits is the box size.

The box size dictates how many sprues will fit in the box, which therefore restricts the size of the model.

Boxes are also surprisingly expensive to produce, and there is also the shelf space they occupy to consider.

I think the last model to get a unique box was the Stompa, which I believe comes on 8 sprues? (I have never built one, it could be 6).

If they could get the T.Hawk on that many sprues and fit in that sized box then I would say it would be likely they would go for it.

Somebody also told me that the FW molds for the T.Hawk were completely knackered and needed redoing, but that there was a problem with the original model.

So it's not impossible, but I just think it's highly unlikely.

So, long story short, GW just wants to sell more oval flight stands?

... and everyone but Space Wolves get flyers.

I think its awesome how a rumor that started on dakka sometime over the past couple of days got posted to BOLS and then got posted back on this site as new 'news'.

Link?
BOLS is reknown for reposting old stuff, but I only recall the speculation that SM might get something else than a Storm Raven.

Kroothawk wrote:... and everyone but Space Wolves get flyers.

We're going to get Thunderwolf Fliers, mark my words...

Is the Stormraven really that unpopular?

I'm sure GW can think of more ways to introduce plastic SM kits; plastic sternguard, plastic honourguard, plastic librarians, plastic techpriest, plastic chaplains, new heavy weapon terminator variants... etc.

Medium of Death wrote:Is the Stormraven really that unpopular?

I quite like it :(

Horst wrote:

Medium of Death wrote:Is the Stormraven really that unpopular?

I quite like it :(

have you taken a look at it? it looks like the fat cousin of a Valkyrie. that and if you look at the rear ramp there is a multimelta on the REAR! why would you put it there? it makes no sense

I also like the Chibihawk. Please note that anything that is (a) Space Marines and (b) flies will be hated as blocky, non-aerodynamic, ugly, etc, and then eventually liked over time. Here's to you, Thumderhawk.

I've come around on the Stormraven somewhat, but it's still pretty bad. Wouldn't surprise me that sales of it weren't so great.

The stormraven has grown on me. The only thing that I don't like is the turret, but with a little work that is easy to fix.

GW will probably copy Chapter house and just redo the StormRaven with better proportions and a less silly turret.

I seriously doubt a T-hawk is in the making. That is a MASSIVE model and would only fit in Apocalypse games.

I have always wanted to see a detailed depiction of a Stormbird. But that is pre-heresy era and also massive.

So that leaves a redone chickenhawk for codex marines.

Marine's are getting yet another codex update? ....Wha? They only just got one a year or so ago right? Eugh, such an effective way to make money eh?

Also Forgeworld state a while ago when someone asked if they would be making a Space Marine flyer based on that old piece of concept art of a large Marine helicopter dropship launching hundreds of assault marines that they would be making nothing like that, or under the name "Stormbird" (a term that I don't anyone bar them had coined). Just a titbit. =P

More marines

Why am I not surprised

As long as it is not the ugly flying land raider.....

Codex: Space Marines is going on what, 4 years old?

BA and SW codex are new, true enough, but the base codex is aging.

SickSix wrote:GW will probably copy Chapter house and just redo the StormRaven with better proportions and a less silly turret.

I seriously doubt a T-hawk is in the making. That is a MASSIVE model and would only fit in Apocalypse games.

I have always wanted to see a detailed depiction of a Stormbird. But that is pre-heresy era and also massive.

So that leaves a redone chickenhawk for codex marines.

Or as was brought up in the OP, a gunship.

Think Apache rather than Huey. Or in game terms, AV12 all-around fast skimmer with 4xTL Lascannons or 3 Thunderfire Cannons or something ridiculous like that.

pretre wrote:

SickSix wrote:GW will probably copy Chapter house and just redo the StormRaven with better proportions and a less silly turret.

I seriously doubt a T-hawk is in the making. That is a MASSIVE model and would only fit in Apocalypse games.

I have always wanted to see a detailed depiction of a Stormbird. But that is pre-heresy era and also massive.

So that leaves a redone chickenhawk for codex marines.

Or as was brought up in the OP, a gunship.

Think Apache rather than Huey. Or in game terms, AV12 all-around fast skimmer with 4xTL Lascannons or 3 Thunderfire Cannons or something ridiculous like that.

It need to do something a predator can't already do, otherwise its pointless.

2 wing mounted whirlwind missile launchers would be a good start

Horst wrote:It need to do something a predator can't already do, otherwise its pointless.

2 wing mounted whirlwind missile launchers would be a good start

Double, wing-mounted vindicator cannons with an underchin TFC.

pretre wrote:

Horst wrote:It need to do something a predator can't already do, otherwise its pointless.

2 wing mounted whirlwind missile launchers would be a good start

Double, wing-mounted vindicator cannons with an underchin TFC.

sounds a bit OP. I like it.

marmaduke wrote:

Horst wrote:

Medium of Death wrote:Is the Stormraven really that unpopular?

I quite like it :(

have you taken a look at it? it looks like the fat cousin of a Valkyrie. that and if you look at the rear ramp there is a multimelta on the REAR! why would you put it there? it makes no sense

. Real life assault craft like the CH-53 have guns mounted on the rear ramp it's common and useful for covering fire while unloading troops

Harriticus wrote:Real life assault craft like the CH-53 have guns mounted on the rear ramp it's common and useful for covering fire while unloading troops

Covering fire is one thing, but rear-facing anti-tank? You expecting to be chased by armor?

Isn't the bit on the rear the magna clamp?

In the grimdark, yes there would be tanks.

Kroothawk and BigRed wrote:

StraightSilver added to that:
Yep, ....However believe it or not the biggest restriction on kits is the box size.

The box size dictates how many sprues will fit in the box, which therefore restricts the size of the model.

Boxes are also surprisingly expensive to produce, and there is also the shelf space they occupy to consider.

I'm sorry, but I consider that to be complete mumbo jumbo.

There's no way that the size of the cardboard box is the restriction. Yeah it means you can store less units to sell and shipping them might be expensive, but its only a box.

One T-Hawk (if that's what it is and I'm hoping it is) box wouldn't be much bigger than the stompa box or 4 land raider boxes, and it would sell so many units that the problem of designing and shipping a new box shouldn't be a factor! Come on GW, make me a plastic T-Hawk!!!

(edited for giant quote size boxes reduction)

Yeah I wouldnt hold your breath. With Tau in the hopper, and the 6th ed starter set rumored to be CSM vs Eldar, I dont think your going to see any ultramarine love anytime soon....and honestly it doesnt need redone at this time...

Horst wrote:Codex: Space Marines is going on what, 4 years old?

Oh wow, they must be in dire need then...lol. Poor Space Marines, I feel your pain...actually no, I don't, I'm playing with a 4th edition codex that's at least 6 years old, and about half or more of the unit entries in it are completely useless.

I know Dakka is going to completley ignore this and dogpile my ass anyway, but for the record: I know Space Marines are going to get updated anyway. We ALL know, because 6th edition is on the horizon and they always get updated first. It's never based on need and it's purely a financial decision, this is a fact of life. Making money is more important to GW than having a balanced game that's fun to play. But please, PLEASE, do not ever try to convince me that Space Marines actually need it, because they're perfectly fine. Literally, the only thing they don't have is a gakky stormraven, and they could just patch that in with a stupid WD article. But I guess they won't do that since they realize the stormraven is ugly as feth so they need to make a new vehicle that SM players will actually want to buy.

Speaking of which, I think I'm the exact opposite of the rest of you guys. I liked the stormraven at first, or at least I didn't hate it nearly as much as everyone else did, but instead of it growing on me over time I've actually grown to hate it as much as everyone else did when it was spoiled. It's an ugly damn thing and the only reason I'd waste money on one is if I were buying it as a gag-gift to a BA/GK player.

I was at gd UK and they said, in the seminar, that other chapters do use fliers, there was nothing to say otherwise, though only the gk and ba used the storm raven. They would like to do others but as yet hadn't had time what with other developments on the table. Also said they'd love to do plastic thunderhawk but that was too much of a big job for now (or something to that effect)

Sorry for only bringing a "no" to the discussion, though i do hope they bring out something that looks like it can fly faster than my gran with icarus's wax wings

Ghostwolf wrote:If you have a look in the Badab War books you might find a reference to this new gunship. If I remember rightly, one of the chapters is recorded as making use of both Stormraven and Firesprite Gunships.

I would be very surprised if it was indeed the Thunderhawk.

1. It's a Superheavy.

2. There are two Variants, the Transport and the Gunship.

3. There is a great deal of large Panels. Huge Box required.

The only possibility I think would be something in between the Chibihawk, Valkyrie and Caestus.

And I will not hold my breath for it. At all.

If this is true I feel for all the vanilla players who bought Chibi Hawks for their chapters.

Weren't there stories about GW managers telling people OF COURSE vanilla marines will get Chibi Hawks next edition?

Kid_Kyoto wrote:If this is true I feel for all the vanilla players who bought Chibi Hawks for their chapters.

Weren't there stories about GW managers telling people OF COURSE vanilla marines will get Chibi Hawks next edition?

I'm sure the owners of all the genestealer, squat, lost and damned and every-bloody-novelty-codex-now-deceased armies will be there ready with the kleenex for em...

Thunderhawk is far too big and point-expensive model to use competitively in games as a Marine flyer.

Really they need just a version of the Stormraven for everyone else.

The Storm Raven never really has grown on me, even after seeing several up close, though I think it would look passable as a looted Fighta-Bomba.

It doesn't have to have a legal use in regular games, for better or worse. Just look at the Stompa and Baneblade kits.

Hell, a Thunderhawk kit's sales would leave those two in the dust. Hell, I'd buy one.

I love the Chibihawk. I love seeing it crashed into the ground, I love seeing scarabs knock it out of the sky after it went full speed, I love shooting it off the table first turn and most of all I love seeing three of them because that means that is less points spent on actual good troops and wasted money as I slag the abominations out of the sky.

Kurgash wrote:I love the Chibihawk. I love seeing it crashed into the ground, I love seeing scarabs knock it out of the sky after it went full speed, I love shooting it off the table first turn and most of all I love seeing three of them because that means that is less points spent on actual good troops and wasted money as I slag the abominations out of the sky.

Gentlemen. I love Stormravens.

Harriticus wrote:Really they need just a version of the Stormraven for everyone else.

The fluff for the SR states that its' STC has only just been recovered, and (to paraphrase all of the overblown Wardism's) it is still in the process of being introduced into the Imperium's general arsenal (even though the GKs might have had it for a bit longer than most.)

So...two possibilities...general introduction of the Stormraven as is, or maybe a remodelled / revamped / slightly modified kit? Maybe the Firesprite variant that Kroot mentioned on page 1?

Time will tell, I suppose...

Padre^.

EDIT - Forgot to mention, am currently painting a SR with the CH extension kit...makes a huge difference!

Horst wrote:Codex: Space Marines is going on what, 4 years old?

BA and SW codex are new, true enough, but the base codex is aging.

CSM is going on 5 and TAU EMPIRE is on 6,,and SMURFS get a NEW one,,joke.

Dont kid yourself about the Stormraven. It has sold really well. There are definitely a lot of them out there.

@ Kid Kyoto - YES!! True!! The Store in the City in Brisbane - I had asked them to set aside 3 for me pre release, as they had assured me in the months soon afterwards there was going to be a WD update stating Vanilla Marines could field them.

When I went into the store - I asked "So how soon do you think the WD will be with the rules... "Errr, umm, we can't really say Johnno, sorry.."

Akira - "Put em out on the shelves for sale to the unwashed masses then.."

TCWarRoom wrote:Dont kid yourself about the Stormraven. It has sold really well. There are definitely a lot of them out there.

You know, I find it odd how people can just throw statements like this out there with nothing to really back them up. I see people say this or that "sold well" all the time but I can't for the life of me figure out how the hell they would possibly know that. Someone said this about Dark Eldar the other day in one of the other rumor threads, and believe me I'd love to think that was true, but I can't help but think how the hell do you know?

When did GW post the last detailed breakdown of the sales of individual models? Because I must have missed the last one that showed us the sales figures for the stormraven since its release. My only other guess is that it's completely anecdotal evidence ("My store sold a bunch, they're really popular!") or just hearsay from a know-nothing staff member, who is likely going to tell you that any model you inquire about has high sales and is really popular and awesome and you should buy three of them.

Otherwise I could just make up any god-damned bs I wanted to and no one could stop me. Like this: Dark Eldar sales have surpassed Space Marines. How do I know? Pff, I dunno, red shirt told me when I was buying a DE megaforce at the GW store (pay no attention to the fact that my state doesn't have a single GW store in it). Now watch it spread across the internet like wildfire, soon BoLS will be reporting this monumental news and I'll become a hero!

...so anyway...yeah, stormraven's ugly.

Kroothawk wrote:

Ghostwolf wrote:If you have a look in the Badab War books you might find a reference to this new gunship. If I remember rightly, one of the chapters is recorded as making use of both Stormraven and Firesprite Gunships.

Hm. Did a search of IA 9 for Firesprite and any other mention of craft used in conjunction with Stormraven gunships and got nada. The Lamenters were discussed as using Stormravens and Thunderhawks extensively in IA 9, but that was it. Anyone have a copy of IA 10 they can check to see where the Firesprite is mentioned?

Firesprite is a sissy name anyway, sounds like an Eldar vehicle!

In keeping with the Space Marine nomenclature they should call it: the Land Flyer!

Or the Brick Eagle.

stormbird. mentioned in HH novels & in between the thunderhawk (FW) & stormraven (GW) sized models... rogue trader era showed it...

krazynadechukr wrote:stormbird. mentioned in HH novels & in between the thunderhawk (FW) & stormraven (GW) sized models... rogue trader era showed it...

Actually, even the pic shows that the Stormbird is a lot larger than the Thunderhawk.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:If this is true I feel for all the vanilla players who bought Chibi Hawks for their chapters.

Weren't there stories about GW managers telling people OF COURSE vanilla marines will get Chibi Hawks next edition?

Time has shown that managers know as much as we do. Just speculation and salesmanship on their part, and I wouldn't really fault them too much for it.

krazynadechukr wrote:stormbird. mentioned in HH novels & in between the thunderhawk (FW) & stormraven (GW) sized models... rogue trader era showed it...

Reading the HH books, the Stormbird was a fair size bigger than a Thunderhawk.

I don't know why, but I find the Thunderhawk model from FW to be perfectly acceptable, yet find the Stormraven to look something like a playmobil toy. The emphasis there on 'toy', I don't look at it and see a model kit.

I don't mind the Storm Raven. it's grown on me. Also, the turret isn't that bad but I think it would look better on something more tankey.

The dark eldar still have the best flyer out there.

Stormwolf anyone?

So if only Blood Angels & Grey Knights get the Storm Raven, and the new Marines codex will introduce this new flyer, then what would the Black Templars get if their codex is released before the Marines codex?

Not the model at the start of the release but a codex edit (wd article) stating it'll be legal from then on or something...

Actually, the Stormbird was always bigger than the Thunderhawk. "In fact", there are a few mentions in the HH books where the Thunderhawk is introduced, and the Marines don't like it. They think it is ugly, and that it's armor is too thin. After using it for a while, they gradually start to respect it, but still want to use the Stormbird.

10,000 years afterward, all they have is the Thunderhawk. It was built by the Mechanicus to be easier to produce than the Stormbird, even though it has less capability. They can make a bunch of Thunderhawks for every one Stormbird that they can make. So, the Thunderhawk has generally replaced the Strombird.

Can't they fasten the production process of the stormbirds with aid of the warp?

The Thunderhawk mould cant be that bad I got mine in May and had no issues with it.

I cant see GW do a plastic kit of it as it would cost a bomb for them to produce and they would end up charging £100+ for it as it is big.

Pacific wrote:

Reading the HH books, the Stormbird was a fair size bigger than a Thunderhawk.

I don't know why, but I find the Thunderhawk model from FW to be perfectly acceptable, yet find the Stormraven to look something like a playmobil toy. The emphasis there on 'toy', I don't look at it and see a model kit.

TBD wrote:So if only Blood Angels & Grey Knights get the Storm Raven, and the new Marines codex will introduce this new flyer, then what would the Black Templars get if their codex is released before the Marines codex?

IT would make sense for Templars to still use Stormbirds as they come in force.
( before anyone complains: leftover Stormbirds from the IF Legion of course..)
But they most likely field Thunderhawks usually.

The Storm Raven is brought in as smaller cousin of the T-Hawk. Both are transports and flyers without transport capacity aren't spotted in SM fluff yet. I guess they could throw a gunship variant in. Would that include a different chassis? Maybe not since they don't add transport capacity but weapons. And I don't want another badly designed "toy" as "the new flyer for marines".

OtoH, let the BT wait a bit, so we can build up some zeal.......
...you know, do the whiny chaos-minions and xenos first, because BT are one fine tool to show the Emperors displeasure about their existence after they raised their heads. Easier to chop off what you see.

What is the name of the interplanetary fighter mentioned in the Heresy novels? Specifically, the fighters the Eisenstein shot down--or were they Imperial/IG Fighters?

Furies? Those things are still gnarly big by comparison.

they could always just give marine players land speeder tempests....

armor 11, enclosed cockpits for atmospheric flight, assault cannon + typhoon launcher armaments.

Why would the Black Templars need a transport vehicle of any sort?

I was under the impression that the Black Templars walk from planet-to-planet?

And, that the more you shoot at them, the faster they get there.

ah the thunderhawk is to small for me i want a plastic version of this !!!!

Heavier version off the landspeeder storm perhaps that can take marines in power armour?

I'm not a fan of the Chibi-hawk, but I've been considering buying a couple to Chapterhouse-up. (at which point I think it looks quite decent, with reasonably proportions). Now wondering if I may as well hold off in case GW puts out a better flyer model - especially given my slow production schedule and the $80+post cost of getting 4 CH kits...

Here's to hoping chaos gets a lil' bit of the action!

Believe Ghost mentioned something about a flyer that WASN'T the hellblade, which is cool, but doesn't have the makings of a good codex entry.

Personally I can see GW going for the T-hawk. Orks have the Stompa, IG have the banblade and shadowsword. It is many many Space Marine players dream to have an Apoc sized army not doing one would be letting a lot down that couldn't possibly afford the £400 price tag to get the forgeworld one.

I seriously doubt they would do a chibi hawk variant.
Why bother when chibi already exists and would be a really easy include in the codex tbh. If people want to convert it then let them. It may get a recut in years to come to make it more appealing but only after GW knows you have bought it to have one, then forcing you to buy a seconds one once it has fixed all the issues people continually bring up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:If this is true I feel for all the vanilla players who bought Chibi Hawks for their chapters.

Weren't there stories about GW managers telling people OF COURSE vanilla marines will get Chibi Hawks next edition?

I'm sure the owners of all the genestealer, squat, lost and damned and every-bloody-novelty-codex-now-deceased armies will be there ready with the kleenex for em...

Yeah I was told that Chibi would be in the next dex and that there would be no problems getting it in my imperial fist army. Glad I held off. But saying that I still believe chibi will be in the next dex, just makes sense to me.

thevirus wrote:

Horst wrote:Codex: Space Marines is going on what, 4 years old?

BA and SW codex are new, true enough, but the base codex is aging.

CSM is going on 5 and TAU EMPIRE is on 6,,and SMURFS get a NEW one,,joke.

And Templars is goning on 7, but they're loyalist Marines and thus doesn't count... right?

No, really, it pisses me off whenever people whine about how old some codices are and leave out the oldest one. I get it, it's cool to hate loyalist Marine Chapters and their Codices, but really, the most assaulty army in the entire friggin' game, along Orks and Tyranids, is reduced to a gunline to have a fair shot at competing.

ceorron wrote:Personally I can see GW going for the T-hawk. Orks have the Stompa, IG have the banblade and shadowsword. It is many many Space Marine players dream to have an Apoc sized army not doing one would be letting a lot down that couldn't possibly afford the £400 price tag to get the forgeworld one..

But that's the rub...£400 is ~$600-$700. Plastic is not that far behind. In talking with designers at GDs, they said there were plastic prototypes of T-Hawks (conversation was two years ago). The issue was retail pricing not feasibility, desire, etc. The plastic T-Hawk (prototypes) required 18-20 baneblade sized sprues. So it's minimum cost would be $300+...more likely $350-$400. They did not believe they could sell enough kits at that price to justify plastic. The appropriate price point would need to be close to $200 max. So it was a great idea that will be left in resin.

Sidstyler wrote:

TCWarRoom wrote:Dont kid yourself about the Stormraven. It has sold really well. There are definitely a lot of them out there.

You know, I find it odd how people can just throw statements like this out there with nothing to really back them up. I see people say this or that "sold well" all the time but I can't for the life of me figure out how the hell they would possibly know that. Someone said this about Dark Eldar the other day in one of the other rumor threads, and believe me I'd love to think that was true, but I can't help but think how the hell do you know?

When did GW post the last detailed breakdown of the sales of individual models? Because I must have missed the last one that showed us the sales figures for the stormraven since its release. My only other guess is that it's completely anecdotal evidence ("My store sold a bunch, they're really popular!") or just hearsay from a know-nothing staff member, who is likely going to tell you that any model you inquire about has high sales and is really popular and awesome and you should buy three of them.

Otherwise I could just make up any god-damned bs I wanted to and no one could stop me. Like this: Dark Eldar sales have surpassed Space Marines. How do I know? Pff, I dunno, red shirt told me when I was buying a DE megaforce at the GW store (pay no attention to the fact that my state doesn't have a single GW store in it). Now watch it spread across the internet like wildfire, soon BoLS will be reporting this monumental news and I'll become a hero!

...so anyway...yeah, stormraven's ugly.

Our FLGS has sold out of Storm Ravens on several occasions and they keep at least 3 in stock at a time. I know with the initial 3 weeks they sold 15+. At our tournaments I see between 8 and 14 Storm Ravens played on a regular basis. The kit has sold well, otherwise you would never see them, or at least see them rarely.

That's not to say the kit is beloved. I personally own 2, I used to own 3, and I hate the way it looks but I find it a useful edition to my GK lists. To sum up, it sold just fine but is still a hated model and GW knows it.

edit: spelling fail

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

thevirus wrote:

Horst wrote:Codex: Space Marines is going on what, 4 years old?

BA and SW codex are new, true enough, but the base codex is aging.

CSM is going on 5 and TAU EMPIRE is on 6,,and SMURFS get a NEW one,,joke.

And Templars is goning on 7, but they're loyalist Marines and thus doesn't count... right?

No, really, it pisses me off whenever people whine about how old some codices are and leave out the oldest one. I get it, it's cool to hate loyalist Marine Chapters and their Codices, but really, the most assaulty army in the entire friggin' game, along Orks and Tyranids, is reduced to a gunline to have a fair shot at competing.

not to mention the dark angels

AlmightyWalrus wrote:No, really, it pisses me off whenever people whine about how old some codices are and leave out the oldest one. I get it, it's cool to hate loyalist Marine Chapters and their Codices, but really, the most assaulty army in the entire friggin' game, along Orks and Tyranids, is reduced to a gunline to have a fair shot at competing.

You realize Black Templars are also rumored to be getting an update within the next few months (possibly to be switched with Tau but I don't see GW putting out two xenos in a row), so this huge injustice done to the Marine players will be corrected in a relatively short amount of time compared to the pace at which xenos get updated?

BT have only been "the oldest codex" for about a month, since Necrons were updated. How many years has the oldest codex been a xeno?

Sidstyler wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:No, really, it pisses me off whenever people whine about how old some codices are and leave out the oldest one. I get it, it's cool to hate loyalist Marine Chapters and their Codices, but really, the most assaulty army in the entire friggin' game, along Orks and Tyranids, is reduced to a gunline to have a fair shot at competing.

You realize Black Templars are also rumored to be getting an update within the next few months (possibly to be switched with Tau but I don't see GW putting out two xenos in a row), so this huge injustice done to the Marine players will be corrected in a relatively short amount of time compared to the pace at which xenos get updated?

BT have only been "the oldest codex" for about a month, since Necrons were updated. How many years has the oldest codex been a xeno?

I'm perfectly fine with Xenos players being upset when the oldest Codex on the market is a Xenos Codex.

What I'm NOT fine with is Xenos players that keep whining about how old their books are when there are older marine cocides that appearently don't count because "they're marines". Just as Xenos players are rightfully annoyed at their Codex being outdated, so am I, and I'm sick and tired of getting treated like some sort of second-class citizen just because I play a marine Codex. The reason behind the recent marine Codex "spam" is that Xenos were updated over Marines in 4th edition *shock*. Space Wolves had a 3rd edition Codex before getting their 5th ed, Blood Angels had a WD PDF and Grey Knights were stuck in 3rd as well.

From what I gather from some Xenos players, they would prefer that those damnable Marines would've stayed antiquated and unused, getting their own Codex updated instead. To me, that's just selfish. If you're not one of these then please don't take offense, I'm not trying to jab at you or insult you, I'm just voicing my (frustrated) opinion.

It may seem that way because it's less of a problem for a Marine codex to be outdated, since it's stupidly easy to just sub one Marine army for another. You don't have to deal with a whole lot of counts-as bs, because a Marine is a Marine, a rhino is a rhino, etc. There's no real headache or serious confusion involved, like there would be if I tried to use the Dark Eldar codex to represent Tau so I could play them competitively. Hell, even trying to use the DE codex for an Eldar army wouldn't be all that easy.

I mean yeah, your Black Templars would still lack the BT "flavor", but if all you're interested in is staying competitive and using your BT models then it's entirely possible to play with a more competitive book until the new one comes out (which like I pointed out is rumored to be coming early next year, or if not Q1 then soon after that). Xenos can't often do that, and the ones that try get scolded for it and told to use their own book and just "deal with" being gak.

Honestly though what I hate more than anything is GW's business model, which causes this fething problem in the first place. I'm getting tired of half the armies in the game being outdated for every edition.

I am in the middle of reading nemesis from the horus heresy series and around page 375 it describes the vessels of the sons of horus fleet. Amongst these it lists the raven interceptor and stormbird which are arstares vehicles, not the tag a long imperial (chaos) vehicles, perhaps this could be what we will get.

Sidstyler wrote:It may seem that way because it's less of a problem for a Marine codex to be outdated, since it's stupidly easy to just sub one Marine army for another. You don't have to deal with a whole lot of counts-as bs, because a Marine is a Marine, a rhino is a rhino, etc. There's no real headache or serious confusion involved, like there would be if I tried to use the Dark Eldar codex to represent Tau so I could play them competitively. Hell, even trying to use the DE codex for an Eldar army wouldn't be all that easy.

I mean yeah, your Black Templars would still lack the BT "flavor", but if all you're interested in is staying competitive and using your BT models then it's entirely possible to play with a more competitive book until the new one comes out (which like I pointed out is rumored to be coming early next year, or if not Q1 then soon after that). Xenos can't often do that, and the ones that try get scolded for it and told to use their own book and just "deal with" being gak.

Honestly though what I hate more than anything is GW's business model, which causes this fething problem in the first place. I'm getting tired of half the armies in the game being outdated for every edition.

This is pretty ignorant, honestly....

a black templar army would require SIGNIFICANT restructuring to work as any other marine army... especially if you use a lot of initiate/neophite squads, a lot of crusaders, or whatever. I went from Codex SM to Codex BA... I basically had to buy an entirely new army. There is a huge amount of conversion and headache going from one SM force to another, because they are all pretty different honestly. The templars MIGHT be able to be used as space wolves, because grey hunters have 2x CCW stock, but again, if he has a lot of neophytes they are all now useless. He could probably use them as BA, but BA are sub-optimal unless you use razor spam or jump marines... 10 man ASM in rhinos kinda sucks.

The point is, that while you can often change rules to go from one marine codex to another, your not going to be taking advantage of what makes that new codex any good, so your going to be 1) Labeled as a power gaming dick for switching codex, and 2) Not at any real advantage because your army isn't built for your codex.

Whatever this flyer is, I can already predict the usual hate it will get, because you can bet it will be the same blocky design as the rest of the Marine vehicles.

Maybe everyone who hated on the Storm Raven can repeat all their ish now, so we can get that out of the way and don't need to read the same old boring stuff again when the first pictures of this thing pop up

Horst wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:It may seem that way because it's less of a problem for a Marine codex to be outdated, since it's stupidly easy to just sub one Marine army for another. You don't have to deal with a whole lot of counts-as bs, because a Marine is a Marine, a rhino is a rhino, etc. There's no real headache or serious confusion involved, like there would be if I tried to use the Dark Eldar codex to represent Tau so I could play them competitively. Hell, even trying to use the DE codex for an Eldar army wouldn't be all that easy.

I mean yeah, your Black Templars would still lack the BT "flavor", but if all you're interested in is staying competitive and using your BT models then it's entirely possible to play with a more competitive book until the new one comes out (which like I pointed out is rumored to be coming early next year, or if not Q1 then soon after that). Xenos can't often do that, and the ones that try get scolded for it and told to use their own book and just "deal with" being gak.

Honestly though what I hate more than anything is GW's business model, which causes this fething problem in the first place. I'm getting tired of half the armies in the game being outdated for every edition.

This is pretty ignorant, honestly....

a black templar army would require SIGNIFICANT restructuring to work as any other marine army... especially if you use a lot of initiate/neophite squads, a lot of crusaders, or whatever. I went from Codex SM to Codex BA... I basically had to buy an entirely new army. There is a huge amount of conversion and headache going from one SM force to another, because they are all pretty different honestly. The templars MIGHT be able to be used as space wolves, because grey hunters have 2x CCW stock, but again, if he has a lot of neophytes they are all now useless. He could probably use them as BA, but BA are sub-optimal unless you use razor spam or jump marines... 10 man ASM in rhinos kinda sucks.

The point is, that while you can often change rules to go from one marine codex to another, your not going to be taking advantage of what makes that new codex any good, so your going to be 1) Labeled as a power gaming dick for switching codex, and 2) Not at any real advantage because your army isn't built for your codex.

very well said, to sum up, Each of the codex army is different, If i build a GK army I can't proxy them as a space marine because I will have all the different weapons, blood angel is all about razorback spam and assualt troops, while SW are about grey hunter and long fang (possiable swith with SM) Dark angel have deathwing and ravenwing (ravenwing might be possiable with SM but deathwing), Black templar like the above person said are all about initiate/neophite squads and its much more outdated so most of the squad set up are different to newer codex so you will have to proxy everything.

I hate people who generalise marine as a marine, they are not all the same, that's like me saying Dark eldar and eldar are the same, they all have lance weapons, Each army plays completely differently.

People should stop complainning about old codex, I am sure everyone have more than 1 army so just play with the one that is indate if you want to win and play with the outdated one if you just want some fun.

About the flyer it could be simmilar to the stromraven but one of those Older version of the strom raven, It will definatly carry troops I think because all the flyers do right now (sorry to point out the obvious), but I hope it probably one of those prehereasy design of the stormraven.

I don't even really see the point in continuing to argue about this crap, especially seeing as how it's all off-topic in the first place. After this I suggest we all drop the hell out of it and just move on.

Okay, so the stupid xenos players made a mistake and forgot all about BT being the most outdated, sorry, our bad. Perhaps it would have been easier to chalk that up to being the most outdated for so god-damned long we just forgot all about the BT in the first place, an honest mistake if you ask me.

Maybe my "Just run them as another SM codex" comment was made in ignorance, even though personally I still think it wouldn't be that hard, I've seen people make lists with the BT codex that look so similar to the competitive razor/rhino spam for BA that I don't think you'd have much trouble porting most of it over to the BA codex (though apparently Stelek even seems to think the BT codex can still be somewhat competitive, so maybe they are more well off than people are giving them credit for?). Yeah, you'd have to leave behind stuff like neophytes and land raiders, although to be fair land raider spam hasn't really been that competitive in 5th edition anyway, and I never tried to argue that it would be a perfect "counts-as" in the first place (because I do realize every SM codex plays differently, they aren't literally all the same), the whole point was that you could make more of a case for subbing Marines than you could subbing any xeno codex, IF for no other reason than the models are similar enough. Case in point, raiders don't make really good wave serpents (and vice versa) because the vehicle profiles are so completely different, whereas the only way rhinos really differ are the rules. Obviously not EVERY weapon and wargear option will be represented in every book, but that's when you say "feth it" and use proxies, and just decline to play games with people who have a problem with it. It's better than trying to play with an outdated book that's not fun anymore, or not playing at all, in my opinion.

As for complaining about having to buy new models, so what? You don't think you're going to need to replace half your army anyway when they get updated? Okay, if you don't want to bite the bullet now and make your army playable, then just wait another 4-5 months (not that I really know when BT are coming out, just going by what the rumor threads are posting) and spend all your money then. I don't know what else to say, this was kind of a dumb tangent to go on in the first place since we have reason to believe that BT won't be waiting that much longer for an update anyway, so pointing out that they're the oldest and are therefore in greater need than any xenos codex was kinda pointless. You're getting exactly what you want, no need to go on a crusade putting the uppity xenos players back in their rightful places.

TBD wrote:Maybe everyone who hated on the Storm Raven can repeat all their ish now, so we can get that out of the way and don't need to read the same old boring stuff again when the first pictures of this thing pop up

Fine. It's ugly and I hate it. Worst model yet.

Now watch, it's probably going to be so awesome that even I'm going to want to buy one. Hell, I very nearly bought a storm raven*, so if they've got a better design then that then I might get one for sure.

*The only thing stopping me from buying the storm raven was the $66 price tag...isn't it funny, GW, how that kinda thing makes you stop and think about what you're doing, maybe even making you reconsider a purchase? Just food for thought I guess.

-The term "Space Marine Gunship" has been mentioned.
-It's NOT the Stormraven
-It's NOT the Caestus Assault Ram
-Its NOT an "assault themed" vehicle
-There are whispers of that ancient bit of fluff regarding the "missing link transport" Astartes vehicle.

Missing link denotes either something that connects two different 'branches' of vehicles or something which, as the next paragraph of quote denotes, fills a hole in the army. Looking at the vehicle listing, the rhino chassis is a 'missing link' when you consider all of the tanks based on that chassis. ITS NOT an assault flier, which immediately discounts any rumblings of Sbirds of Thawks. Its a gunship that transports things in a way that is 'old' strategy wise whilst being novel in a gameplay sort of way. Look at the Stormraven, that kit has VERY unusual weapon options compared to standard C:SM vehicle options, something more typical would be a motley collection of autocannons, lascannons, and heavy bolters. Thinking of it that way the following comes to mind (but not literally, rearrange the bits of the kits mentioned):

>Flying razorback with better transport capacity and an additional weapon system
>Flying predator with razor back transport capacity
>Flying I-frame with vehicle transport capabilities and alternative gunboat build option (fulfilling the 'missing link transport' part of the rumor in a weird way)
>Flying rhino with very special multi-squad transport capabilites and a variety of weapons

C:SM is primarily a 'shooty' codex, so a non-assault transport that shoots while throwing a lot of shooty units into rapid-fire range would make sense. A lot of sense.

If SM get another aerial vehicle, so should IG! They are the flyers compared to SM, you can build IG armies around the Valkyrie rather than using flying vehicles as support, SM shouldn't have that ability in my opinion.

Well your opinion isn't going to sell expensive plastic kits on stupidly-tall flying stands, that's the problem.

Squidmanlolz wrote:If SM get another aerial vehicle, so should IG! They are the flyers compared to SM, you can build IG armies around the Valkyrie rather than using flying vehicles as support, SM shouldn't have that ability in my opinion.

If anything, Space Marines should have aerial vehicles and the Imperial Guard should not. The Imperial Guard does, after all, have a grand total of 0 aircraft in the fluff...

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Squidmanlolz wrote:If SM get another aerial vehicle, so should IG! They are the flyers compared to SM, you can build IG armies around the Valkyrie rather than using flying vehicles as support, SM shouldn't have that ability in my opinion.

If anything, Space Marines should have aerial vehicles and the Imperial Guard should not. The Imperial Guard does, after all, have a grand total of 0 aircraft in the fluff...

The Guard are lent every vehicle in the Imperial Navy's arsenal (Vultures, lightnings, Thunderbolts, and marauders)

Sidstyler wrote:

TCWarRoom wrote:Dont kid yourself about the Stormraven. It has sold really well. There are definitely a lot of them out there.

You know, I find it odd how people can just throw statements like this out there with nothing to really back them up. I see people say this or that "sold well" all the time but I can't for the life of me figure out how the hell they would possibly know that. Someone said this about Dark Eldar the other day in one of the other rumor threads, and believe me I'd love to think that was true, but I can't help but think how the hell do you know?

When did GW post the last detailed breakdown of the sales of individual models? Because I must have missed the last one that showed us the sales figures for the stormraven since its release. My only other guess is that it's completely anecdotal evidence ("My store sold a bunch, they're really popular!") or just hearsay from a know-nothing staff member, who is likely going to tell you that any model you inquire about has high sales and is really popular and awesome and you should buy three of them.

Otherwise I could just make up any god-damned bs I wanted to and no one could stop me. Like this: Dark Eldar sales have surpassed Space Marines. How do I know? Pff, I dunno, red shirt told me when I was buying a DE megaforce at the GW store (pay no attention to the fact that my state doesn't have a single GW store in it). Now watch it spread across the internet like wildfire, soon BoLS will be reporting this monumental news and I'll become a hero!

...so anyway...yeah, stormraven's ugly.

I own a game store and have sold over 100. I only own one store in Northern Michigan. If I have had those results I can reasonably assume it has done well everywhere.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Squidmanlolz wrote:If SM get another aerial vehicle, so should IG! They are the flyers compared to SM, you can build IG armies around the Valkyrie rather than using flying vehicles as support, SM shouldn't have that ability in my opinion.

If anything, Space Marines should have aerial vehicles and the Imperial Guard should not. The Imperial Guard does, after all, have a grand total of 0 aircraft in the fluff...

If anything Space Marines should get more deep strike options and no fliers. More drop pod variants and more rhino based armour types like a vindicator with a different main weapon or different versions of the pred and razorback. Marine armies should be versatile. The thunderfire canon really doesn't fit the way marines fight and shouldn't be there on its tracks, it should be on a razorback, give the IG the little cart thing; makes more sense as they already have crew served heavy weapons.

Okay, one store in America reporting in. Just about a thousand more and we should have some data to work with!

Sidstyler wrote:Okay, one store in America reporting in. Just about a thousand more and we should have some data to work with!

Like I said, reasonable assumption. I also communicate with my sales rep. who keeps us up to date on sales trends.

Not sure why you would assume it sold poorly only because you think its ugly. I will take my odds, you take yours.

Squidmanlolz wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Squidmanlolz wrote:If SM get another aerial vehicle, so should IG! They are the flyers compared to SM, you can build IG armies around the Valkyrie rather than using flying vehicles as support, SM shouldn't have that ability in my opinion.

If anything, Space Marines should have aerial vehicles and the Imperial Guard should not. The Imperial Guard does, after all, have a grand total of 0 aircraft in the fluff...

The Guard are lent every vehicle in the Imperial Navy's arsenal (Vultures, lightnings, Thunderbolts, and marauders)

Exactly. The Imperial Guard proper has no air presence anywhere. Claiming that the IG are more of an aerial insertion army than Space Marines fluffwise is just silly. Why you feel that an army built around rapid insertion doesn't deserve aircraft over an army that doesn't even have it's own dedicated flyers are beyond me.

TCWarRoom wrote: Not sure why you would assume it sold poorly only because you think its ugly. I will take my odds, you take yours.

Oh apparently I'm the only one now, guess you weren't around for the gigantic Dakka hate thread that got posted when it was first spoiled.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Squidmanlolz wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Squidmanlolz wrote:If SM get another aerial vehicle, so should IG! They are the flyers compared to SM, you can build IG armies around the Valkyrie rather than using flying vehicles as support, SM shouldn't have that ability in my opinion.

If anything, Space Marines should have aerial vehicles and the Imperial Guard should not. The Imperial Guard does, after all, have a grand total of 0 aircraft in the fluff...

The Guard are lent every vehicle in the Imperial Navy's arsenal (Vultures, lightnings, Thunderbolts, and marauders)

Exactly. The Imperial Guard proper has no air presence anywhere. Claiming that the IG are more of an aerial insertion army than Space Marines fluffwise is just silly. Why you feel that an army built around rapid insertion doesn't deserve aircraft over an army that doesn't even have it's own dedicated flyers are beyond me.

Aren't Elysian's a drop army?
But yeah, IG get valkyries already. No need to give them another flying like thing.

Wow, something new for space marines, imagine that...

I love how this company has "breakthrough" methods in making toy models made out of plastic lol

What a bunch of BS!

With all these flyers coming around to the books, I wouldn't be surprised if the new style of play just involved deep striking all your forces and see who got the short end of the stick with reserves. Every game would be D-Day Normandy paratrooping....

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Squidmanlolz wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Squidmanlolz wrote:If SM get another aerial vehicle, so should IG! They are the flyers compared to SM, you can build IG armies around the Valkyrie rather than using flying vehicles as support, SM shouldn't have that ability in my opinion.

If anything, Space Marines should have aerial vehicles and the Imperial Guard should not. The Imperial Guard does, after all, have a grand total of 0 aircraft in the fluff...

The Guard are lent every vehicle in the Imperial Navy's arsenal (Vultures, lightnings, Thunderbolts, and marauders)

Exactly. The Imperial Guard proper has no air presence anywhere. Claiming that the IG are more of an aerial insertion army than Space Marines fluff-wise is just silly. Why you feel that an army built around rapid insertion doesn't deserve aircraft over an army that doesn't even have it's own dedicated flyers are beyond me.

It's not about rapid insertion, I haven't seen the imperial navy give half as much support to the SM as they give the guard. All of the navy's support is used either in space-faring operations or to assist ground operations (usually IG). Fluff-wise, the guard probably couldn't win very many attacking battles without support from Marauder bombers (Read Ghostmaker) Without air support, guard can hardly function. Not to mention air-superiority fighters.

I like the Stormraven, just haven't gotten around to buying one since I don't have enough Blood Angels to justify it. It makes sense for every chapter to be allowed access to the SR. I would love to get the Tempest in plastic, but I"m not holding my breath.

The Imperial Navy is forbidden from taking commands from the Astartes. They'll assist them, but generally they have no need to since the Astartes have their own integrated air support or cruisers overhead which can provide fire support.

lowmanjason wrote:Wow, something new for space marines, imagine that...

Because Vanilla Marines have gotten so much attention recently right? When will the haters realize that Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights don't count as new stuff for us Vanilla players? In fact, the release of new and absurd books like C:GK hurt Vanilla Marine players even more as we are pushed further down the food chain while still feeling the constant hatred that Marine armies receive. Blood Angels and Grey Knights getting a new flyer kit that we couldn't use was just insult to injury.

SonicPara wrote:

lowmanjason wrote:Wow, something new for space marines, imagine that...

Because Vanilla Marines have gotten so much attention recently right? When will the haters realize that Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights don't count as new stuff for us Vanilla players? In fact, the release of new and absurd books like C:GK hurt Vanilla Marine players even more as we are pushed further down the food chain while still feeling the constant hatred that Marine armies receive. Blood Angels and Grey Knights getting a new flyer kit that we couldn't use was just insult to injury.

not to mention gk is extremely overpowered..... in apocalypse a 5 man purifier squad took out 300 ork boys with one psychic attack

@ Sidstyler - I normally love your dry and intelligent comments regarding all things Gaming - I think you are awesome(personally)

But as far as The Stormraven Sales go, and an actaul store owner commenting on sales - You got served info - and served well. To argue back just sounds... well... trolly and infantile.

You were wrong - they have sold well. accept it and move on.

OT - I am looking for a Rhino/type - Transport 5 Termies would be nice - But no - I do not want to see a flying Landraider

ghost21 wrote:It's honestly not as grand as people think. It's, if you can imagine, a flying landraider.
I saw a very early version that used a very converted landraider itself, but imagine land raider stats with no dreadnaught hook, only 1 access point, but access to land raider firepower.

Honestly, I wasn't that interested, I kept looking at tau.

That sounds like a hilariously heavy aircraft.

Flying Landraider?

Skyraider...

Sounds a bit too close to the Stormraven to be true, in terms of the shape anyway.

I'm not against the idea. Just doesn't seem likely.

Wasn't the stormraven originally nicknamed the "flying land raider"?

Honestly, I wish the Land speeder got more love instead

Ya know, I actually like the Stormraven. It's not terribly pretty, but it works well with my tactical preferances. That being said, it seems to me they didn't quite stat the thing right given how much it costs to put in play.

It can go through a planet's atmosphere, and shrug off the melta 2d6 to pen rule but it's only armor 12....Now, as it's supposed to a fast vehicle, the low armor makes sense to me. But really, I'd have been happy with a flyer that wasn't fast and maxed out at 24" of movement if it had better armor. I think av 13 all around would have been good...but that's life I guess. I'm still mostly cool with what did come out.

As a vanilla Marine/Nids/ BA/ CSM-TS player, I don't think SM need any new flyers right now...or any time soon. The tyranids need a new wave of models to finish their codex choices, the Sisters of Battle *still* don't have a new codex or plastic/finecast models, CSM needs work...etc...

-For the time being, I see no harm in just letting Vanilla Marine armies take the SR till the rest of the game's armies get a chance to catch up. I actually would like to see (some day) a SR style gunship for SM that is JUST a gunship, no dreds, no transport capacity.

Elindiel wrote:As a vanilla Marine/Nids/ BA/ CSM-TS player, I don't think SM need any new flyers right now...or any time soon

-For the time being, I see no harm in just letting Vanilla Marine armies take the SR till the rest of the game's armies get a chance to catch up.

Exactly. Vanilla Marines deserve access to the Storm Raven (or a new kit for that matter) and it would be more economical of GW as the kit is already made. I don't really see the point in releasing a brand new kit unless they want to make something special for Vanilla Marines as compensation for leaving the line of models as they are. I'm fine with just getting the Storm Raven, especially considering I already own one with the Chapterhouse kit, but as long as my Vanilla Marines get access to some cool flier I will be happy.

lol, "deserve"? So how's that work, if another chapter gets something that's supposed to be unique to them, vanilla Marines should get it too, just because?

We wouldn't want all the Space Marine codices to be different now, then there might actually be a reason to have so many.

Sidstyler wrote:lol, "deserve"? So how's that work, if another chapter gets something that's supposed to be unique to them, vanilla Marines should get it too, just because?

We wouldn't want all the Space Marine codices to be different now, then there might actually be a reason to have so many.

Agreed, Vanilla Marines (or any other Marine Codex for that matter) don't "deserve" a unit just because it exists. Sadly, I think that the Stormraven will go the way of the Mortis Dreadnought and Land Raider Crusader before it.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:lol, "deserve"? So how's that work, if another chapter gets something that's supposed to be unique to them, vanilla Marines should get it too, just because?

We wouldn't want all the Space Marine codices to be different now, then there might actually be a reason to have so many.

Agreed, Vanilla Marines (or any other Marine Codex for that matter) don't "deserve" a unit just because it exists. Sadly, I think that the Stormraven will go the way of the Mortis Dreadnought and Land Raider Crusader before it.

Didn't at one of the games day a game designer said they would never give the storm raven to the other marines? Bassicly out right admitting that all the Marien armies were too alike, and wanted more unquie units/rules for the different marines?

Because as it stands the differences between the loyalists is laughtably few. Even CSM is bassicly Vinillia marines missing half the units/Rules, running around with Demon princes, and Oblits.

If your going to give the C:SM Storm Raven's, then you might as well give them access to split fire devs, OP psychic squads, Wolf Cav, Fast Rhinos, and Assault troops. Then we can just have a single new loyalist SM codex at the start of every edition.

=P

(Edit: Just to make clear. I don't mind multiple SM books. I mind the fact that each SM book eventually gets all the stuff the other's have, and becomes a game of let's play the newest/best SM.)

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:lol, "deserve"? So how's that work, if another chapter gets something that's supposed to be unique to them, vanilla Marines should get it too, just because?

We wouldn't want all the Space Marine codices to be different now, then there might actually be a reason to have so many.

Agreed, Vanilla Marines (or any other Marine Codex for that matter) don't "deserve" a unit just because it exists. Sadly, I think that the Stormraven will go the way of the Mortis Dreadnought and Land Raider Crusader before it.

The Mortis Dreadnought never was available to the army which it was "signature" to outside of Imperial Armour Volume II. It wasn't until C: SM that it was added.

The Land Raider Crusader was no big surprise that it was going to be moved over elsewhere.

Like Lockark said though, Ward basically outright said with a few more devs like Kelly backing him up about how the Stormraven is just one of many things we might be seeing for the Astartes in the air.

Sidstyler wrote:lol, "deserve"? So how's that work, if another chapter gets something that's supposed to be unique to them, vanilla Marines should get it too, just because?

We wouldn't want all the Space Marine codices to be different now, then there might actually be a reason to have so many.

Vanilla Marines deserve a flyer and, as the Stormraven is the inexpensive way for GW to make that possible, they at least deserve access to it. A new kit instead would certainly achieve a level of variety between the different codices but at great expense to GW. GW making a unique Vanilla Marines flyer puzzles me as a business decision due to the cost of a new kit, that is what I was discussing.

TCWarRoom wrote:

...so anyway...yeah, stormraven's ugly.

I own a game store and have sold over 100. I only own one store in Northern Michigan. If I have had those results I can reasonably assume it has done well everywhere.

SonicPara wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:lol, "deserve"? So how's that work, if another chapter gets something that's supposed to be unique to them, vanilla Marines should get it too, just because?

We wouldn't want all the Space Marine codices to be different now, then there might actually be a reason to have so many.

Vanilla Marines deserve a flyer and, as the Stormraven is the inexpensive way for GW to make that possible, they at least deserve access to it. A new kit instead would certainly achieve a level of variety between the different codices but at great expense to GW. GW making a unique Vanilla Marines flyer puzzles me as a business decision due to the cost of a new kit, that is what I was discussing.

Maybe it would be easier for them to do that, but I don't think GW is all that worried. It's a Space Marine model, it'll sell. If the storm raven was popular despite only two armies having access to it, then surely GW can make one or even two more flyers to distribute to other chapters and rest easy knowing they'll make their money back.

Kroothawk wrote:

Yeah, I will take that over the stormchicken any day. And I do not want all SM armies to be carbon copies of eachother.

Kroothawk wrote:

IF?



Just wait for the second wave......

hmmmm

krazynadechukr wrote:hmmmm

Oh jeez, I hope not... That thing looks lame.

oni wrote:

krazynadechukr wrote:hmmmm

Oh jeez, I hope not... That thing looks lame.

I know!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"Firespite Gunship " has been rumored to be heard in the halls at GW HQ......

What we know is -

Apparently this is the big "new kit" to accompany the updated Codex:Space Marines.

-The term "Space Marine Gunship" has been mentioned.
-It's NOT the Stormraven
-It's NOT the Caestus Assault Ram
-Its NOT an "assault themed" vehicle
-There are whispers of that ancient bit of fluff regarding the "missing link transport" Astartes vehicle.

& this Firespite has been mentioned in FW Badab Wars several times now....

I can safely say that I would not buy a model that looks like several fast food containers on skis.

Firespite? Never heard of it and it's not on Lexicanum.

Brother SRM wrote:That sounds like a hilariously heavy aircraft.

be funny if you made fun of it XD
I love the idea of a new transport
But I want vanguard to be less expensive first....

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
not to mention gk is extremely overpowered..... in apocalypse a 5 man purifier squad took out 300 ork boys with one psychic attack

This irritates me. GK are not overpowered, any good player can beat them with any army. I have seen tau beat a triple psyfleman psi-back spam army. I saw stealer shock tyranids beat them with ease.

Cough* AC-130*Cough?

mcmuffin wrote:This irritates me. GK are not overpowered, any good player can beat them with any army.

*If they are more skilled and/or lucky

Capitansolstice wrote:Cough* AC-130*Cough?

Erm..?

ph34r wrote:

mcmuffin wrote:This irritates me. GK are not overpowered, any good player can beat them with any army.

*If they are more skilled and/or lucky

mcmuffin wrote:I have seen tau beat a triple psyfleman psi-back spam army. I saw stealer shock tyranids beat them with ease.

Just because you have seen a GK player lose does not mean GK are not overpowered.
Just because a bad player has a GK army does not mean GK are not overpowered.
On average GK are, as many competitive players have attested to and statistics support, at the very least competitive and easy mode, if not straight up overpowered.

Yes, but the best grey knights player can be beaten by another equally skilled player of another army. GK are considered overpowered by those who don't have a clue how to deal with them effectively, because they are a good all round army, with powerful shooting and ok close combat. But you know what, the player in question is far from a bad player, probably one of the best players in the country, an ETC competitor, but he was beaten by clever tactics from tyranids. GK are no better than Space wolves, DE or Imperial guard. They are a good army, and a competitive army, but are not an overpowered army. They are easy to play and have simple strategies associated with them, while an equally competitive army, such as Necrons or DE ,takes a bit more finesse to use to the same level that good Grey Knights players can achieve without a huge amount of practice.

Well wouldn't it be sweet to get a AC-130 style marine gunship?
Not that anything like this could or would happen, just dreaming.
Something like that would be spam though

AC-130 eh?

So, main gun= S9 Ap2 48" Heavy 1 Large Blast
Smaller cannon= s6 AP 5 48" Heavy 5, blast
Gatling gun= S5 AP- Heavy 15?

how does that sound, oh, and it can fire at different targets in the same shooting phase

mcmuffin wrote:AC-130 eh?

So, main gun= S9 Ap2 48" Heavy 1 Large Blast
Smaller cannon= s6 AP 5 48" Heavy 5, blast
Gatling gun= S5 AP- Heavy 15?

how does that sound, oh, and it can fire at different targets in the same shooting phase

That about sums it up

OOOOH. Maybe this one?

What's coming out of it in that picture?

mcmuffin wrote:AC-130 eh?

So, main gun= S9 Ap2 48" Heavy 1 Large Blast
Smaller cannon= s6 AP 5 48" Heavy 5, blast
Gatling gun= S5 AP- Heavy 15?

how does that sound, oh, and it can fire at different targets in the same shooting phase

Why not toss on a few kherries assault cannons as underslung plyon weapons for some 12 dice attacks, might help with the hoards a little eh?

H.B.M.C. wrote:What's coming out of it in that picture?

They look like speed-blurred Rhino-chassis vehicles of some persuasion.

mcmuffin wrote:AC-130 eh?

So, main gun= S9 Ap2 48" Heavy 1 Large Blast
Smaller cannon= s6 AP 5 48" Heavy 5, blast
Gatling gun= S5 AP- Heavy 15?

how does that sound, oh, and it can fire at different targets in the same shooting phase

...that actually sounds kind of interesting (except for shooting at two different targets, unless that comes as an upgrade for xx points). Though of course Space Marines would get a vehicle that can do everything. But I could actually see something like that working if it was priced right. I'd take the "blast" off the smaller cannon, though, 5 shots sounds like enough. And even though it's a SM vehicle I'd say it needs to be BS3, 15 shots hitting at 3+ is kind of nuts.

That's just my opinion though, I'm no game designer by any means so don't put much stock into what I think.

Wolf_Ov_The_Void wrote:Stormwolf anyone?

Wolfstormwolfwolfship?

Dysartes wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:What's coming out of it in that picture?

They look like speed-blurred Rhino-chassis vehicles of some persuasion.

The left one of the three reminds me of a bike slightly hung to the side as if taking a change of direction.

I imagine a gunship variant of the Chibihawk, turret and cargo bay removed. Probably sharing some sprues with the latter... most likely wings and tail assembly.

What can I say?. It's a Space Marine vehicle. Don't expect wonders on the aesthetics front...

@mcmuffin

Again, with SMs being the Workshop's poster kids those stats don't sound farfetched at all... Now, give that flying monstrosity an all-round AV of 14 and that'll be the day I stop playing 40k. It's official.

I'm gonna go ahead and say that I hope we do getnthe stormraven. I like the model and it would be an efficient addition to the SM codex.

Failing that, some kind of predator with wings would be my next guess.

mcmuffin wrote:AC-130 eh?

So, main gun= S9 Ap2 48" Heavy 1 Large Blast
Smaller cannon= s6 AP 5 48" Heavy 5, blast
Gatling gun= S5 AP- Heavy 15?

how does that sound, oh, and it can fire at different targets in the same shooting phase

Make it so if you choose to fire the main cannon, you can't fire anything else that turn. Balanced.

A "predator with wings" would definately fit the "missing link" phrase that's getting bandied about, just in this case it would mean missing link between the landspeeder and the stormraven

H.B.M.C. wrote:What's coming out of it in that picture?

Rhinos? Land Raiders?

That's be cool to have a giant flyer to use in game & also is used as an army transport!

ph34r wrote:

mcmuffin wrote:This irritates me. GK are not overpowered, any good player can beat them with any army.

*If they are more skilled and/or lucky

A more skilled player beating a less skilled player, what a crazy concept. We must stop that...

Here are a few characteristics of the possible Stormbird model....

cockpit section - 2 flight officers sat back to back facing wall pancels by the hatch. beyond them 2 hard-wired pilot servitors. (Horus Rising)
Cannons mounted under the cockpit. (False Gods pg.88) Stormbirds were launched from launch rails.
Stormbirds - monstrous, fat-bodied flyers with racks of missiles slung under each wing and wide rotary cannons seated in forward pintle mounts.(False Gods pg.91)
Debarking ramp dropped from the rear of the stormbird. (False Gods pg.103)
It also mentioned about its capacity to carry a speartip. (a company of space marines).

I’m sure in the next codex there will be some kind of fighter/ bomber, like the ones most races seem to be getting recently. Rather than some kind of gunship.

People seem to be getting confused about the ‘’missing vehicle’ ‘.It was always supposed to be a tank that was somewhere between the rhino and land raider, With the stc being lost over the millennia. which the landest faction of the mechanicium are trying to piece it together from redundancies of both vehicles.

Which suggests to me it is referring to some kind of dedicated midsized tank, possibly like some kind of leman Russ rather than anything aerial.

i'm hoping for what is essentially a flying version of the eldar falcon. a 12/12/11? Flyer with a typhoon missle launcher twin linked assault cannons under the chin and two missiles (thats all you get) which yield large blast templates at str 7 ap3 and it can drop 5-6 assault squad marines (yea for chaplinss with jump packs).

krazynadechukr wrote:Here are a few characteristics of the possible Stormbird model....

There is no possible Stormbird model. They're not going to make a plastic kit that dwarfs a Thunderhawk.

A stormbird must be the size of a tau Manta, If not bigger. I don't see one ever being released even by forge world.

SickSix wrote:

mcmuffin wrote:AC-130 eh?

So, main gun= S9 Ap2 48" Heavy 1 Large Blast
Smaller cannon= s6 AP 5 48" Heavy 5, blast
Gatling gun= S5 AP- Heavy 15?

how does that sound, oh, and it can fire at different targets in the same shooting phase

Make it so if you choose to fire the main cannon, you can't fire anything else that turn. Balanced.

Perfect

The names of the flyers seem to follow a pattern. e.g. Thunder Hawk, Storm Raven (storm related then a bird), so the next one should be called *drumroll*...
Lightning Pigeon!

MasterSlowPoke wrote:

krazynadechukr wrote:Here are a few characteristics of the possible Stormbird model....

There is no possible Stormbird model. They're not going to make a plastic kit that dwarfs a Thunderhawk.

Actually, they said the model would fit between a Storm Raven & a Thunderhawk....

johnstewartjohn wrote:I’m sure in the next codex there will be some kind of fighter/ bomber, like the ones most races seem to be getting recently. Rather than some kind of gunship.

People seem to be getting confused about the ‘’missing vehicle’ ‘.It was always supposed to be a tank that was somewhere between the rhino and land raider, With the stc being lost over the millennia. which the landest faction of the mechanicium are trying to piece it together from redundancies of both vehicles.

Which suggests to me it is referring to some kind of dedicated midsized tank, possibly like some kind of leman Russ rather than anything aerial.

This methinks?

Oh, these are possible ones too!

That would be boss

A BFG ship would be larger than your game store at 40k scale. Stop wishlisting.

krazynadechukr wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:

krazynadechukr wrote:Here are a few characteristics of the possible Stormbird model....

There is no possible Stormbird model. They're not going to make a plastic kit that dwarfs a Thunderhawk.

Actually, they said the model would fit between a Storm Raven & a Thunderhawk....

Well, even if this rumor is real, that should tell you it's NOT a Stormbird.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:A BFG ship would be larger than your game store at 40k scale. Stop wishlisting.

krazynadechukr wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:

krazynadechukr wrote:Here are a few characteristics of the possible Stormbird model....

There is no possible Stormbird model. They're not going to make a plastic kit that dwarfs a Thunderhawk.

Actually, they said the model would fit between a Storm Raven & a Thunderhawk....

Well, even if this rumor is real, that should tell you it's NOT a Stormbird.

agreed, the storm bird is about 1.5 times longer then a thunderhawk and about double the width. so defiantly not bigger then a manta but still big

MasterSlowPoke wrote:A BFG ship would be larger than your game store at 40k scale. Stop wishlisting.

The two pictures are fighter/bomber sized.


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krazynadechukr wrote:

MasterSlowPoke wrote:

krazynadechukr wrote:Here are a few characteristics of the possible Stormbird model....

There is no possible Stormbird model. They're not going to make a plastic kit that dwarfs a Thunderhawk.

Actually, they said the model would fit between a Storm Raven & a Thunderhawk....

So you agree? Fitting between Storm Raven and Thunderhawk isn't dwarfing the thunderhawk.

As far as I can see Space Wolf wise in the novels, Thunderhawks are actually the go to transport, even if they're just flying around to different points on the same planet.

Nice thunderhawk!!!

krazynadechukr wrote:Oh, these are possible ones too!

Where these piloted by marines or chapter serfs?

The fury looks just like a marauder + thunderbolt + big a$$ engine

Avakael wrote:As far as I can see Space Wolf wise in the novels, Thunderhawks are actually the go to transport, even if they're just flying around to different points on the same planet.

Thunderhawks are the go to transports in the fluff, but that doesn't rule out GW creating an entirely new unit and retconning it in, like they have with pretty much every new unit ever. So, while the Space Wolves/Ultramarines/whatever might not have the Cloudchicken or whatever the new vehicle will be called right now, the next codex might say something like "Cloudchickens have been in use in some Space Marine chapters for the last 5,000 years" or whatever.

Here a rumour by an untested rumour poster over at Warseer:

Danteng7 wrote:here's what i have:

-Its a Thunderhawk.
-Release in Mid Feb.
-Limited Edition (1500-3000 available worldwide). Similar distribution pattern as space hulk/dreadfleet
-Price - GBP200-300.

take it with lotsa salt people. but thats what i have.

We will see in a week when the White Dwarf is released.

If true, you may as well just get the resin one for that kind of price. I would guess a plastic thunerhawk be around £150.

marmaduke wrote:

Horst wrote:

Medium of Death wrote:Is the Stormraven really that unpopular?

I quite like it :(

have you taken a look at it? it looks like the fat cousin of a Valkyrie. that and if you look at the rear ramp there is a multimelta on the REAR! why would you put it there? it makes no sense

Why did the KV-1s and some other WW2 Russian vehicles have an MG on the BACK of the turret?

I'd say just wait and see what it is.

Kroothawk wrote:Here a rumour by an untested rumour poster over at Warseer:

Danteng7 wrote:here's what i have:

-Its a Thunderhawk.
-Release in Mid Feb.
-Limited Edition (1500-3000 available worldwide). Similar distribution pattern as space hulk/dreadfleet
-Price - GBP200-300.

take it with lotsa salt people. but thats what i have.

We will see in a week when the White Dwarf is released.

200-300 GPB...holy crap...at a direct exchange rate that would be $300 to almost $500 USD. Thats insane. At $200-$300 USD I might consider getting one however...


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TechMarine1 wrote:

marmaduke wrote:

Horst wrote:

Medium of Death wrote:Is the Stormraven really that unpopular?

I quite like it :(

have you taken a look at it? it looks like the fat cousin of a Valkyrie. that and if you look at the rear ramp there is a multimelta on the REAR! why would you put it there? it makes no sense

Why did the KV-1s and some other WW2 Russian vehicles have an MG on the BACK of the turret?

.

Because infantry likes to sneak up behind large slow vehicles...

A slightly undercosted T-Hawk...
Why is so "available" and "cheap" ?

Drop that price to 50% and make it unlimited!


BTW, where does this nonsense of multimeltas at the rear of a StormRaven come from?
The SR got just missiles, a set of nose - a set of turret and a set of sponson- weapons. Nothing for its behind.

So an Apache Gunship variant, or an A-10 tankbuster with a Power Armour wearing pilot, big whoop. Pointless, GW have gone from "lets have lots of Armour because they are expensive kits" 5th edition to "lets make everything fly and then we can introduce our inverted ceiling table where you can hang stuff from it and engage in mock air combat " 6th edition.

I just wish they would stop, consolidate. Work out a plan to cover all the holes they have (missing codex updates, the overbloated retail arm) and get back to basics producing solid specialist games and stop this wild charge to the horizon where everything is getting super expensive.

Their Share-price is going up, so none of this is going to happen.

If it is a "limited" run plastic thunderhawk they will tie it in with 40k's 25th anniversary and make it "limited" to 40,000 copies

They dont make plastic kits that are limited run, as a general rule (in that, i cant think of one in the last 5 years that was) as the startup costs for plastic kits are high.

Also - people have been waffling on about a plastic thunderhawk for years now, normally based on seeing one at WHW. Except it isnt a true plastic Thawk theyre seeing

Had a conversation with a GW staffer at one point in which they hinted that a plastic Thawk was very doable. The issue was that they needed a good-sized hole in the release schedule since a kit that big would eat up so much of their machines' production time.

Note that the production capacity issue would be one reason why they might make it a limited run. Also my understanding is that they've brought a lot of things in house and their costs to produce the steel molds for plastics aren't anywhere near what they used to be.

nosferatu1001 wrote:They dont make plastic kits that are limited run, as a general rule (in that, i cant think of one in the last 5 years that was) as the startup costs for plastic kits are high.

Space Hulk.

gorgon wrote:Had a conversation with a GW staffer at one point in which they hinted that a plastic Thawk was very doable. The issue was that they needed a good-sized hole in the release schedule since a kit that big would eat up so much of their machines' production time.

Makes me wonder why they'd release it at the same time they're churning out the 6e boxed set with undoubtedly new plastics inside. Production for that would be huge.

Kroothawk wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:They dont make plastic kits that are limited run, as a general rule (in that, i cant think of one in the last 5 years that was) as the startup costs for plastic kits are high.

Space Hulk.

Dreadfleet.

Games Workshop financially are in a strong position, they have restructured their debt, paying off a significant amount, their share price has risen against the market trend in the last 2 - 3 months. They have also paid their 1st ever dividend of 29p per share in 2011, that is a very health thing. Investors are smitten, more money coming in, a better amount for research and development and a lower overhead as debt has been paid off. GW is kicking financial ass, in a time of austerity, ponder on that my friends...

Look at this graph over the last few months, then set it back a few years. This is a good healthy business.

http://www.lse.co.uk/ShareChart.asp?sharechart=GAW

So who knows what GW will do next, bottomline whatever they do will be profit orientated and not necessarily what the fans want or what fits with their main franchises. I would put money on more specialist games coming out to supplement the 40k and WHFB mainlines.

johnstewartjohn wrote:If true, you may as well just get the resin one for that kind of price. I would guess a plastic thunerhawk be around £150.

for £399 from fw i can get a reg thunder hawk with chapter specific doors & icons....or at same price a th that is grappling 2 fw rhinos with chap specific doors/icons for same price.....

what happened to the rumour that it wouldn't be a thunderh...wouldn't be a model fw has done...would be a new flyer....between a thunderhawk & stormraven sized model?

perhaps this th is an entirely different rumour? not effecting a new flyer?

Actually looked at that recently and they did away with the free doors. The price stayed the same, bit the doors are gone. All in an effort to "streamline" the web page so there were not 15 different pictures of the same thing, one for each chapter.

well it is an *untested* rumour poster for a reason. this is not going to happen.

ThomasPolder wrote:well it is an *untested* rumour poster for a reason. this is not going to happen.

it might, you never know with GW, they might even release a Warhound titan

Sidstyler wrote:

TCWarRoom wrote: Not sure why you would assume it sold poorly only because you think its ugly. I will take my odds, you take yours.

Oh apparently I'm the only one now, guess you weren't around for the gigantic Dakka hate thread that got posted when it was first spoiled.

Dakka does not represent ALL of the 40K/GW consumer pool.

Dakka is no more valid then this store owner's opinion, in fact it is less so becaue it is mostly haters trying to earn "internet cool points".

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:

ThomasPolder wrote:well it is an *untested* rumour poster for a reason. this is not going to happen.

it might, you never know with GW, they might even release a Warhound titan

As much as i would love that, I'm sure that they're only interested in releasing something for 6th ed Space Marines. Now, if the supposed leaked 6th ed rules are real, then maybe, just maybe, a Warhound will show.

Maybe a Imperial Knight Paladin for 40k? I would reckon it to be a 2 structure point Apoc unit, Battlecannon, Heavy Bolter and CC weapon about 250 -300 points. They made the dreadknight, a Knight Paladain wouldn't be much bigger.

Space Marines are their biggest seller, it would be pretty stupid to limit the number of Thunderhawks being made... unless by 'limited' they meant 'until the mould wears out'.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Space Marines are their biggest seller, it would be pretty stupid to limit the number of Thunderhawks being made... unless by 'limited' they meant 'until the mould wears out'.

GW has done some stupid things though. I'm looking at you Chaos Daemons Codex.

Could be an early 25th anniversary present, if true. Esp. as January WD said, WD February will be 40k anniversary issue.

200-300 UK pounds?! so, like $375 or more USD? Would this be a FW model (where $400 is apparently a regular kind of price). If this is supposed to be non-FW, I can't imagine anyone else but the most die-hard fan whose a Wall Street type with oodles of money would even consider this.

Let's celebrate the anniversary of the hobby by putting out a model only a tniy fraction of the fanbase can buy! Yay!

Yeah, it should be no more than £100 at most and be widely available. What's the point to putting out limited number of copies of an incredibly expensive plastic kit seems to defeat the point of making it in plastic in the first place. Oh well it's only a rumour for now.

It'll be £400 again. 40,000 pennies. Betcha.

Edit: And it'll be Finecast.

What was the original price difference between the FW Baneblade and the GW version? If the the current price is anything to go buy you'd be looking at a thirdish off the price... maybe... so that's still £250 ish

I hope it's true, but not at that price.

I know what they could do...They could re-write the fluff so that Space Marines have put every race to the sword, with the exception of the Necron who they put the Stuxnet Virus into and make them be servitors for Humanity. The original 20 Legions were mirrored and a further 20 Legions and Primarchs were secretly hid in the Webway, and it's taken them 10,000 Years to sail in realspace from the next Galaxy over. They turn up, bish bash bosh, everyone's dead, Lots of Space Marines everywhere 20 new 1st founding Legion to take the total upto 40. The Emperor gets up and says "Job Done" and he makes all the space marine legions fight each other to entertain themselves. Then all GW they do is release different Space Marine army every month, job done, cash reserves build up and they all get 100k salaries at Nottingham. No body cares because it's all about the Homoerotic Marines anyway.

If they were to do a limited edition object I would expect a finecast Golden Throne as a purely display piece.

russian recasters have allready done one of those !
[/spoiler]

Id have to see the model and the price before I got too excited about a Thunderhawk.

Id be very excited about a plastic Warhound (or other titan), even if it was a couple hundred $.

The idea of them hitting more specialist games could be great. If they started looking at fan wishlists theyd realize that a Necromunda box with the same treatment the SH set got would sell like mad.

*Sigh* The original thread has been hijacked by thunderhawk/titan wishers......Original rumour died to this lesser based attached rumor....

I'd love to see an SM gunship with like... Gattling TL Assault Cannon.. Think the American thunderbolt.

How about a tempest? Sort of how they released the manticore in plastic? A larger revision?

krazynadechukr wrote:

johnstewartjohn wrote:If true, you may as well just get the resin one for that kind of price. I would guess a plastic thunerhawk be around £150.

for £399 from fw i can get a reg thunder hawk with chapter specific doors & icons....or at same price a th that is grappling 2 fw rhinos with chap specific doors/icons for same price.....

I think a key point the posters who are saying "might as well get the resin for that price" is that forgeworld casting is massively less than flawless and the thunder hawk kit has to be extensively reworked while you build it, often the lower half the of fuselage bends inwards among other things:





Reference: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/295786.page

and the wings require massive pins to stop them falling off :



Reference: http://taleofpainters.blogspot.com/search/label/Thunderhawk
^This guy used a power sander on the engines.

Obviously resin kits are expected to need more work but having it in plastic at a cheaper price would be amazing. It would be lighter, easier to work with, cast accurately and make a better kit overall.

Danteng7 over at Warseer is not giving up. Here his new rumour about the Thunderhawk:

more rumors...
thunderhawk pushed back another month.
It can be seen in Feb WD. Anyone spotted it?

Must be pages 17 (that is XXVII) and 38 (XXXVIII) on the flip side then. Anone can make out differences to the FW resin Thunderhawk?

Orinoco wrote:

krazynadechukr wrote:

johnstewartjohn wrote:If true, you may as well just get the resin one for that kind of price. I would guess a plastic thunerhawk be around £150.

for £399 from fw i can get a reg thunder hawk with chapter specific doors & icons....or at same price a th that is grappling 2 fw rhinos with chap specific doors/icons for same price.....

I think a key point the posters who are saying "might as well get the resin for that price" is that forgeworld casting is massively less than flawless and the thunder hawk kit has to be extensively reworked while you build it, often the lower half the of fuselage bends inwards among other things:





Reference: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/295786.page

and the wings require massive pins to stop them falling off :



Reference: http://taleofpainters.blogspot.com/search/label/Thunderhawk
^This guy used a power sander on the engines.

Obviously resin kits are expected to need more work but having it in plastic at a cheaper price would be amazing. It would be lighter, easier to work with, cast accurately and make a better kit overall.

Mine didnt need massive pins nor did it require that much bending. The only things that are slightly wrong is a small gap between the nose and the fuselage oh and a bent lascannon.

Kroothawk wrote:Danteng7 over at Warseer is not giving up. Here his new rumour about the Thunderhawk:

more rumors...
thunderhawk pushed back another month.
It can be seen in Feb WD. Anyone spotted it?

Must be pages 17 (that is XXVII) and 38 (XXXVIII) on the flip side then. Anone can make out differences to the FW resin Thunderhawk?

Anyone got the pics on those pages they can post?

Looks like the resin one to me.

For a SM flyer;

What about the Fire-Raptor Gunship?

It got a passing mention in IA10 I believe?

I always tell people Not to buy the Forge World Thunderhawk. My Thunderhawk Gunship was a wreck. I had to pin the wings on (no big deal), there was a gap between the fuselage and the nose, the fuselage was twisted and bent inward, I also had to sand down one of the engines, I had to dog pieces of the mold out of the crevices, the list goes on and on.
People tell me that I should have gotten in touch with Forge World and I could have received replacement parts. I wasn't aware of that at the time. It didn't come with a letter saying that "if most of the parts were rubbish let us know and we'll replace them for you."
I am glad that I have it now though.

I may well be remembering things wrong here, but is it not the case that every time a thunderhawk appears in the pages of White Dwarf people start asking if its 'the plastic one'?

Quite apart from anything else, If this were some ludicrously subtle teaser on GW's part, it would have been painted by the studio, rather than this one which is quite clearly painted the same way as the rest of the Neil Hodgson's personal Crimson Fist army that formed the bulk of the models used in the report.


Now I would not be surprised if a plastic Thunderhawk was forthcoming (if for no other reason than GW must know it would sell by the bucketload), but this picture is not it...

Deathwolf wrote:People tell me that I should have gotten in touch with Forge World and I could have received replacement parts. I wasn't aware of that at the time. It didn't come with a letter saying that "if most of the parts were rubbish let us know and we'll replace them for you."

Retail laws in pretty much every country on the planet allow you a replacement or a refund if a product you buy is faulty. There's no real need for the company to say so every time someone buys from them.

Ah ha! Rumor has it, this might be it!

krazynadechukr wrote:Ah ha! Rumor has it, this might be it!

I think that's artistic license taken with a thunderhawk...some of the vehicles on the same Hunt for Voldorius poster are also streamlined and bear little resemblence to actual SM tanks.

http://www.jonsullivanart.com/hunt-for-voldorius-copy.html

krazynadechukr wrote:Ah ha! Rumor has it, this might be it!

Doubtful... That was the rumored pic that floated around prior to the storm raven's release. If you take a look at the whole piece of art, you'll see that the artist takes plenty of liberties with both weapon and (especially) vehicle design. Both his landspeeders and rhino chassis vehicles don't correspond well with the models and existing art. That stuff looks straight out of the old Buck Rogers tv series.


edit: arghhh... ninja'd! but I posted the pic!

mwnciboo wrote:So an Apache Gunship variant, or an A-10 tankbuster with a Power Armour wearing pilot, big whoop. Pointless, GW have gone from "lets have lots of Armour because they are expensive kits" 5th edition to "lets make everything fly and then we can introduce our inverted ceiling table where you can hang stuff from it and engage in mock air combat " 6th edition.
.

Actually...might be fun...

insaniak wrote:

Deathwolf wrote:People tell me that I should have gotten in touch with Forge World and I could have received replacement parts. I wasn't aware of that at the time. It didn't come with a letter saying that "if most of the parts were rubbish let us know and we'll replace them for you."

Retail laws in pretty much every country on the planet allow you a replacement or a refund if a product you buy is faulty. There's no real need for the company to say so every time someone buys from them.

Know a guy in my gaming group who had a defect Ceastus ram, the whole rear section was a big hunk of resin a,d cracked too, he send FW pictures, and received a WHOLE new Ceastus, he then made a mold of the rear section and used it on the incomplete Ceastus.

He thus had 2 Ceastus Rams for the Price of one...

Still searching for a faulty Reaver titan, so that they sent me a whole new one...

I think somebody's license needs to be revoked. Look at the "gun" on the Razorback and you'll see why.

The whole pic is screwed up . None of the firearms are recognizeable .and the marines on foot are moveing at the same speed as the vehicles.

Here a collection of today's flyer rumours:
First some rumours by an anonymous source posted by Darnok over at Warseer:

The already "known" Necron wave was confirmed: 2 flyers, the big walker, the jet bikes, Wraiths and Spiders.
(...)
There ware also a few Nids ready to go, the Tervigon/Tyranofex dual kit and a flyer that I wasn't familiar with, looked about lictor sized but more resembled a winged zoanthrope.
(...)
And last, but definetely not least: more flyers seem to be in the works, including an Ork Fighter! It seemed to be very similar to the FW version. No specific mention of a timeframe was given - expect it sometime the next six months.

ihavetoomuchminis wrote:If i'm not wrong (it happens once in a while), the flyers (Fighta/Bomba, SM, and Necrons) come in May......

Harry wrote:

RedemptionNL wrote:If the Ork Fighter, Tyranid Harpy and Space Marine Mystery Flyer rumours pan out, we may actually have that 'summer of fliers' on our hands. Just a year late.

I don't think we will get it this year. I think it would take the same slot as Storm of magic did for Fantasy. First big supplement for 40K. So that would make it two years late.

I don't think stickmonkey gets how long some projects are in development.

stickmonkey wrote:Hmmm...

LOL You may well look shifty.

I'd sure like one of those Ork fightas, that's for sure.

Looking foward to see what it will be!

well, they have the thunderhawk in the current WD....and they speak of FW thunderhawk in the past tense...

"...the old thunderhawk was very heavy and problematic to move on the board..."

Something like that would clue me into a lighter plastic version on the horizon (?)....

We will see soon enough....

krazynadechukr wrote:well, they have the thunderhawk in the current WD....and they speak of FW thunderhawk in the past tense...

"...the old thunderhawk was very heavy and problematic to move on the board..."

Something like that would clue me into a lighter plastic version on the horizon (?)....

We will see soon enough....

They're talking about the ridiculous metal one.

Yup, the one that came with the 'purchaser is straight-up insane' certificate lol. No joke.

I remember someone telling my brother and I about the metal one. He ran bracing rods down the middle of the hull and pinned the gak out of it, and it still fell apart regularly.

-Loki- wrote:I remember someone telling my brother and I about the metal one. He ran bracing rods down the middle of the hull and pinned the gak out of it, and it still fell apart regularly.

The metal Thunderhawk was well documented to collapse under its own weight.

MajorTom11 wrote:Yup, the one that came with the 'purchaser is straight-up insane' certificate lol. No joke.

Does something that needs to come unassembled in a sturdy WOODEN CHEST!! still qualify under the term "miniature"? Yeah, I remember seeing that bad boy in the old 3rd edition codex as well as a few white dwarf magazines and thinking... who is crazy enough to buy all that? I had trouble enough back in the day with my metal dreadnought, lol. I still get a kick when some of the teenagers who play 40k first pick up that bad boy and their hand phsyically stutters under the unexpected weight.

MajorTom11 wrote:Yup, the one that came with the 'purchaser is straight-up insane' certificate lol. No joke.

The advert for it in the journal said "you have to be mad or American to buy a thunderhawk".

Insanity!
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/426510.page

What the devil are these?? They look like wheeled land speeders.

Snrub wrote:What the devil are these?? They look like wheeled land speeders.

Flying land speeders....flying really low.

No... they look like some kind of armored vehicle. APCs?

Carnage43 wrote:

Snrub wrote:What the devil are these?? They look like wheeled land speeders.

Flying land speeders....flying really low.

Look closely, they have wheels.

Out of myth and legend, from the depths of the Dark Age of Technology comes ... the wheeled hover rhino!

Kazwulf wrote:Insanity!
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/426510.page

That's a pretty awesome case, regardless of the stupidly expensive contents.

Kazwulf wrote:Insanity!
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/426510.page

From a modelers viewpoint, this looks like a fairly challenging, but fun build whith a great reward after finishing.
But ~700€ for this is just way too much, even with this awesome wooden chest

Kazwulf wrote:Out of myth and legend, from the depths of the Dark Age of Technology comes ... the wheeled hover rhino!

actually, there was a card for this in the CCG, gift of the emperor I believe it was called.

They are fully armored Land Speeders like the Forge World one with a Assault cannon in it the wheel belongs to the bike next to it.

^You clearly aren't looking at the picture. We can see the bike. If you look under both vehicles there are clearly....WHEELS.

The stuff on the cover of "The Hunt for Voldorius" is the artist taking liberties with the Rhino and Thunderhawk designs.

The Metal Thunderhawk came with it's own decal sheet? I never knew that. I love the Eagles over triangles and Wreathed skull with thunderbolts. They need to put those on a new decal sheet somewhere.

Kanluwen wrote:The stuff on the cover of "The Hunt for Voldorius" is the artist taking liberties with the Rhino and Thunderhawk designs.

Pretty much - and we certainly went over that back when the book was released... in 2010!

This is very, very thin, barely a hint of a rumour, but I've been meaning to mention this for a while, and unofortunately have remembered to while at work and so don't have a copy of Deliverance Lost to look it up, and can't remember.

Near the start, three different models of drop ship are mentioned, Stormbird, Thunderhawk and x, I want to say something like Firebird/Hawk, but pretty sure that's wrong.

Anyway, not something I'd heard of before, and its order in the list suggests it is smaller than the other two (assuming decreasing size)

Perhaps someone could grab their copy and give it the right name, but this could be a hint at what to expect?

azreal13 wrote:
Near the start, three different models of drop ship are mentioned, Stormbird, Thunderhawk and x, I want to say something like Firebird/Hawk, but pretty sure that's wrong.

I am looking and not seeing anything? Are you thinking of the Firesprite that other people have mention, or something else? I'll keep reading through. Any idea of when or where it is mentioned?

quickfuze wrote:Yeah I wouldnt hold your breath. With Tau in the hopper, and the 6th ed starter set rumored to be CSM vs Eldar, I dont think your going to see any ultramarine love anytime soon....and honestly it doesnt need redone at this time...

You're shrooming hard-core if you think they will release a core set without Space Marines (Imperial Space Marines).

Kazwulf wrote:

azreal13 wrote:
Near the start, three different models of drop ship are mentioned, Stormbird, Thunderhawk and x, I want to say something like Firebird/Hawk, but pretty sure that's wrong.

I am looking and not seeing anything? Are you thinking of the Firesprite that other people have mention, or something else? I'll keep reading through. Any idea of when or where it is mentioned?

I've searched myself now and can't find it!

Perhaps someone with a digital version could search for stormbird or thunderhawk, and it would occur right next to it? I suspect it is when they are arriving at earth, but not able to locate, sorry.

azreal13 wrote:

Kazwulf wrote:

azreal13 wrote:
Near the start, three different models of drop ship are mentioned, Stormbird, Thunderhawk and x, I want to say something like Firebird/Hawk, but pretty sure that's wrong.

I am looking and not seeing anything? Are you thinking of the Firesprite that other people have mention, or something else? I'll keep reading through. Any idea of when or where it is mentioned?

I've searched myself now and can't find it!

Perhaps someone with a digital version could search for stormbird or thunderhawk, and it would occur right next to it? I suspect it is when they are arriving at earth, but not able to locate, sorry.

Thread in Background:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/423518.page#3796460
where this reqested line in Deliverance Lost can be found.

spiralingcadaver wrote:

Kazwulf wrote:Insanity!
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/426510.page

That's a pretty awesome case, regardless of the stupidly expensive contents.

And it even came with instructions, beats the current FW version.

Gav Thorpe short story about the Dark Angels mentions the Harbinger Drop Ship, the Castellan bomber and the Deathbirds aircraft too




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[PDF]
http://www.lski.org/pictures/tabletopgaming/40K%20Fiction/WH40K%20-%20Horus%20Heresy/pdf/HH09a%20-%20Kyme%20&%20Priestley%20-%20Tales%20of%20Heresy.pdf

THE HORUS HERESY. Edited by ...... 'I believe Horus Lupercal is unsound,' said Constantin. 'Un- .... As the Hawkwing adjusted for its final approach, its trans- ...

The HAWKING
Automatically Appended Next Post:
"AS IT TURNED, the craft caught the sun across its silver fuselage
and shone like a brief star in the mauve reaches of the upper atmosphere.
A civilian-pattern Hawkwing, registered to Fancile et
Cie, operating out of the Zeon-Ind orbital, it was just another
transport coming in along the signal pulse of the Planalto Central
traffic beacon.
The flying machine, an orbit-capable bird, wore a burnished
metallic skin, and was a wide, elegant shape, like a giant ray or a
skate, with broad, triangular wings and a slender dart of a tail."



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"the Hawkwing’s afterburners had folded backduring berthing,"

That "Hawkwing concept" is the TAC Fighter from Starship Troopers the film.

I think reading BL stories from years ago is reading into things a bit too much, and nothing will come of it. After all, how many books featured Stormravens before the kit dropped? Zero.

I think it's the Longsword Fighter from HALO.

It is the longsword from halo, HOWEVER, in all the descriptions of the Hawkwing (manta like with pointy tail), the Hawkwwing would look like this....

Man, that's WAY too sleek. Think Storm Raven or Thunderhawk. It's gotta be way more Winnebago-like.

I think this is much more likely to be what the Hawkwing looks like:

Death By Monkeys wrote:Man, that's WAY too sleek. Think Storm Raven or Thunderhawk. It's gotta be way more Winnebago-like.

I think this is much more likely to be what the Hawkwing looks like:

and then i lol'd

but in all honesty besides the dark eldar bomber when has GW made anything Aerodynamic?

aerodynamic dunt matter, they just use navigational deflectors like on star trek to make a perfect areodynamic shape.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Man, that's WAY too sleek. Think Storm Raven or Thunderhawk. It's gotta be way more Winnebago-like.

I think this is much more likely to be what the Hawkwing looks like:

If this was a new flyer for space marines i think i would buy at least six of them. Its about a thousand times better than the storm raven. I can see it now... Space balls the table top war game. And Space balls the space marine. O yea... I think I am getting a chubby from thinking about that as my new flyer. Good job on pointing it out. Maybe a GW rep. Trolling this site will see that and decide that, thats what GW needs to make.

Lets all put our hands together and hope that, that is the new Space marine Flyer. With decals... And built in lights!!!