Pardon me while I do the most Un-Logical thing here, apply Logic.

Games Workshop just came out with THREE thing now thing everyone will Want/Need or Need/Want depending on your point of view. They are making them almost necessary for everyone to buy [or at least they hope you feel that way]. It would make no sense for them not to make them for every Army out there. This way they will sell more models and make more money! I am sure there will be a Bio-What-Ever for Nids

As a Guard/Marine/Grey Knight Player, this is the point of view I am coming from.

Fortification: That’s for another discussion.

Fliers/Anti-Fliers: This is the one I am going to talk about here.
Point-1: I am sure that EVERY Army will get at least 1+ Fliers.
Point-2: I am sure that EVERY Army will get at least 1+ Anti-Flier Weapon System.
Point-3: I am sure that EVERY Army will get access to the AAA [Anti-Aircraft-Artillery] Upgrade for some of its Wargear.

Let’s start with Imperial Guard
Flyers:
-Valkurie: With the Standard Multi-Laser and Heavy Bolter Sponsons you have a pretty good Flyer for AAA Work.
-Vendetta: Three Twin Linked Las-Cannons and Heavy Bolter Sponsons, it’s not going to miss much and what Enemy Flyer you hit is going to Hurt!

Anti-Flyer:
-Hydra: There is no need to talk about this dead horse subject.
-Leman Russ: You got the Exterminator [Twin-Linked Auto Cannons], and Punisher [20 Shots]. These will have a good chance to hit something and with the average low AV of Flyers they should inflict some level of Damage. [AAA will make these Gruesome]
-Manticore: The FAQ may give it Anti-Flyer Missile.
-Heavy Weapons Squads: 9 HB shots [Twin-Linked with the right Command] should hit with something. They might get a AAA Option or Command.

Now to Space Marines
Flyers:
-Storm Raven: Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters or Twin-Linked Multi-Melta and a Twin-Linked Assault Cannon or Twin-Linked Las-Cannons. There is a world of Hurt here.
-Land Speeders?: It would be nice, if so you will have Heavy Bolters and Assault Cannons.
-Whatever the Name of the One from the recent White Dwarf.

Anti-Flyer:
-Dreads: I am assuming this will be an AAA option if only for the Rifleman Dreadnaughts.
-Predator/Razorcack: I will Assume that they will get the AAA Option.
-Whirlwind: IIRC there used to be an AAA missile; it would not be hard to bring them back.
-Devastator Squad: 12 HB Shots might do some damage. That and they might get a AAA Option or the Signum may let you have AAA for One Weapon or the Squad.

I am sure EVERY Army could compile there own list.

Edit: Double Post

And again...dang it.

Praxiss wrote:I dont know, spamming Flyers is a bit more costly then spamming Razorbacks or venoms isn't it? Especially after yet another price hike (£30 per flyer now).

I for one can't afford to buy the maximum number of Scythes for my Necrons, not by a LONG way.

I am hoping to have 2, 1 Doomscythe and a Nightsythe so i can still field my 2 Anni Barges as well.



i might be wrong and it will be completely different where you guys play. Maybe i am lucky in that the people i play with dont tend to be overly competative and generally avoid fielding the latest WAAC list.

I'd swap the flyers out for Wraiths. Greatly benefit from Imotekh and give you some solid good ol' punchin'. Most of my Wraiths are conversions that look like the old Wraiths, I only got 1 "new" one per squad for checking LOS etc.

Again, here's hoping for Heavy Destroyers getting Anti-Air. DO IT GW! DO IT! DO IT DO IT DO IT!

Praxiss wrote:Everyone is now saying that Daemons cant assault out of DS becasue the rulebook says "no assault out of DS"...

But the 5th ed book said the same thing, the Daemons codex then states they can assault from DS.

Does it say somewhere specifically that "Daemons cannot assault from deep strike"?

I was under the impression that if a codex specific rule over-rides a rulebook generic one.


Rulebook says "no for everyone" - codex says "actually, daemons can" = Daemons can.

Erm, no. The daemons codex does NOT say that daemons can assault from deep strike. They couldn't assault from deep strike in 5th and they won't assault from deep strike in 6th barring a FAQ.

Do daemons have Instability or something like that, or just the usual No Retreat? If it is the latter, then yes, they take more damage from shooting, due to Overwatch, but between Fear and (apparently) no more No Retreat it seems like they will be more resilient in CC.

xxvaderxx wrote:So you have to roll individual saves and remove wounds one at a time? This is really going to slow things down isnt it? Im thinking of the times I get like 12-15 wounds on a unit with a large mob of shoota boyz...

This is on a model per model basis, not on some model type as it was in 5th

Yes, per-model. And if you follow that text exactly, you will arrive at the same result as rolling all 20 dice at once. But please work through your example to convince yourself that no matter what order the hits/misses come up in, that failing X saves results in a loss of X wounds. Because of the way wounds are removed during shooting, models can no longer take more unsaved wounds than they have. So if the target unit consists of only single wound models, then you remove the X closest models from the table as casualties.

Yes, things get more complicated if your unit consists of mixed armor troops. Or if you are taking shots with different S/AP values. Or if you are taking Look Out! saves on a character. But really, it's no more complicated or slow than 5th wound allocation (IMO).

On a side note regarding allies, do folks think Space Wolves will be able to take two HQ's as part of the ally selection?

Not sure on the wording in the book, as I currently don't own it.

Thunderfrog wrote:

DarthOvious wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Reserves are a 3+ on turn 2, 3+ on turn 3, and automatic on turn 4. Nice changes there, hive commander is a great upgrade now!

Here is a list of CC weapons and their AP values:

Chainfist AP2
chainsword AP-
Eviscerator AP2
Heavy Chainsword AP5
Dreadnought CCW AP2
forcesword AP3
force axe AP2
Force stave AP4
Lightning Claw AP3
Power Klaw AP2
Power fist AP2
Power sword AP3
Power axe AP2
Power maul AP4
Power lance AP3/4 (first turn/subsequent)
Thunder hammer AP 2
Witchblades AP-

Power swords do not provide 5++

How does this change the metagame for Grey Knights? AP3 Force Weapons are a big nerf. I know Grey Knights needed a bit of a nerf but perhaps that is going too far. In combat against other terminator they will get mauled by the looks of it. Normal Termies get AP2 powerfists, thus ignoring 2+ armour saves and also Thundanators get AP2 weapons to go along with their Storm Shields. Meanwhile Force Weapons will do jack against them. If you even equip all your Grey Knight Termies with Daemonhammers hten that only puts them on par with normal termies. Against Thundanators they just don't stand a chance. Also not to mention Paladins will get instakilled against them.

As far as I can see Thundanators are going back to the top of the chain. They will get their 2+ armour save against most things in CC and will be taking their 3++ save a lot less. I'm lucky I have some of those for my BA but I now worried about my GKs.

I think CC oriented GKTs are going to see more auto-include Warding Staves and Force Swords. While not exactly as cheap as SS's, They will be able to soak up hits with the staves and 4+ invuls in CC. The rest of the unit will likely include a couple of hammers but honestly I've never had my paladins stuck in the muck against any other TEQ's. MEQ armor is still the vast vast majority and your GK's wont notice too much difference. It simply chages the how and when of charging a group of hammernators. (Soften them up with some Psycannons first. Rends still get AP2. I figure at 450 points you get..

Justicar with a MC Nemesis Daemonhammer Hammerhand (can be exchanged).
4 Termies with Nemesis Force Swords (1 with a Psycannon)
4 Termies with Hammers
1 Termies with a Warding Stave.

That's a 2++. 4 4++'s, 4 AP2's, and 4 AP3's. Again, not to mention hammerhand, Psyk-out grenades, and The Aegis, which got a lot better in this edition.

Or the fact that it was posted that halberds are force axes, and so will be +1 st AP2 and since GK have a halberd +2 initiative meaning they strike at IN3 so will still rape conventional terminators. The only thing that was nerfed was the damn swords IMO

Wraiths. Greatly benefit from Imotekh

Don't get me wrong I love Wraiths and they're one of the good assault units of 6th edition, but they don't benefit from Imotekh at all because they have a 3+ invulnerable save already. Night fight has been changed. During night you get +1 to your cover save if you are being shot from 12" away, +2 to your cover save if you are being shot from 24" away, and at distances of 36" or higher and you're untargetable. The flyers on the other hand do benefit from Imotekh and/or Pulseteks

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

Joey wrote:

Pyriel- wrote:

Somebody is grumpy this morning.

Damn straight I´m grumpy this morning.
We thought boat and razorspam and minmaxed squads were boring, lame and killing the fun of this game.
I had hopes that 6ed would make it a bit more fun with less gakking spam and more actual foot troops/minis on the table.

Then I saw an example list made by "Therion" of with what we know of 6ed the new spam cheese will look like:

HQ
Orikan the Diviner: 165p
Overlord, Warscythe, MSS: 115p
Harbinger of Destruction, Solar Pulse: 55p
TROOPS
5 Warriors, Night Scythe: 165p
5 Warriors, Night Scythe: 165p
5 Warriors, Night Scythe: 165p
5 Warriors, Night Scythe: 165p
5 Warriors, Night Scythe: 165p
5 Warriors, Night Scythe: 165p
HEAVY SUPPORT
Doom Scythe: 175p
Doom Scythe: 175p
Doom Scythe: 175p

Total Points: 1850

Nice, GW, very nice. Thanks for killing the hobby by replacing a line of razorbacks with ten times worse crap. At least the razors didnt need a 6 to be hit with.
This whole desperately-need-to-sell-new-molds over actual balance and fun is going to far.

Unless something drastic is introduced that we just dont know anything about (not likely) these are the new tournament armies.

3 Vendettas.
9 Hydras.
Other stuff.
Yeah, try harder.

Yeah, It's a necron list.

Yea but according to flier rules so far they need to jet onto the table and their base cannot be over or within 1 inch of enemies, so enemies will just drive up and cover the bored with max coherency, even Tranyds will just spawn cover and infiltrate all over the bored and laugh when those nine clumbsy fliers cannot be placed on the table.

Anpu42 wrote:Pardon me while I do the most Un-Logical thing here, apply Logic.

Games Workshop just came out with THREE thing now thing everyone will Want/Need or Need/Want depending on your point of view. They are making them almost necessary for everyone to buy [or at least they hope you feel that way]. It would make no sense for them not to make them for every Army out there. This way they will sell more models and make more money! I am sure there will be a Bio-What-Ever for Nids

As a Guard/Marine/Grey Knight Player, this is the point of view I am coming from.

Fortification: That’s for another discussion.

Fliers/Anti-Fliers: This is the one I am going to talk about here.
Point-1: I am sure that EVERY Army will get at least 1+ Fliers.
Point-2: I am sure that EVERY Army will get at least 1+ Anti-Flier Weapon System.
Point-3: I am sure that EVERY Army will get access to the AAA [Anti-Aircraft-Artillery] Upgrade for some of its Wargear.

Let’s start with Imperial Guard
Flyers:
-Valkurie: With the Standard Multi-Laser and Heavy Bolter Sponsons you have a pretty good Flyer for AAA Work.
-Vendetta: Three Twin Linked Las-Cannons and Heavy Bolter Sponsons, it’s not going to miss much and what Enemy Flyer you hit is going to Hurt!

Anti-Flyer:
-Hydra: There is no need to talk about this dead horse subject.
-Leman Russ: You got the Exterminator [Twin-Linked Auto Cannons], and Punisher [20 Shots]. These will have a good chance to hit something and with the average low AV of Flyers they should inflict some level of Damage. [AAA will make these Gruesome]
-Manticore: The FAQ may give it Anti-Flyer Missile.
-Heavy Weapons Squads: 9 HB shots [Twin-Linked with the right Command] should hit with something. They might get a AAA Option or Command.

Now to Space Marines
Flyers:
-Storm Raven: Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters or Twin-Linked Multi-Melta and a Twin-Linked Assault Cannon or Twin-Linked Las-Cannons. There is a world of Hurt here.
-Land Speeders?: It would be nice, if so you will have Heavy Bolters and Assault Cannons.
-Whatever the Name of the One from the recent White Dwarf.

Anti-Flyer:
-Dreads: I am assuming this will be an AAA option if only for the Rifleman Dreadnaughts.
-Predator/Razorcack: I will Assume that they will get the AAA Option.
-Whirlwind: IIRC there used to be an AAA missile; it would not be hard to bring them back.
-Devastator Squad: 12 HB Shots might do some damage. That and they might get a AAA Option or the Signum may let you have AAA for One Weapon or the Squad.

I am sure EVERY Army could compile there own list.

Very doubtful. Instead they will expect you to shore up your missing fliers by allying with someone who does have them. Sorry, but that seems to be their answer to balance issues now. Brilliant if you think of it in a "I'm too effing lazy to resolve this properly" sort of way.

Someone posting on one of the smaller forums is claiming that Missile Launchers have a Strength 7 AP 4 Skyfire auxiliary fire mode. I personally hope this isn't true, as it would make flyers substantially less relevant to the game, but who knows.

Also, does anyone have a handle on how bikes have changed? I was about to build a biker army, and now I'm hesitant.

Leth wrote:Also I played DE so I know. I played WWP De in the older rules and everything I see makes me wish I had held on to them.

You mean the part that says you can't assault when coming from reserve? Making the DE WWP close to useless?

Yea but according to flier rules so far they need to jet onto the table and their base cannot be over or within 1 inch of enemies, so enemies will just drive up and cover the bored with max coherency, even Tranyds will just spawn cover and infiltrate all over the bored and laugh when those nine clumbsy fliers cannot be placed on the table.

Flyers can move over enemy models but can't end their move on top or within 1" of them. Orikan makes all of the enemy's models move in difficult terrain on turn one (temporal snares), and trying to argue that you can crowd the whole table with models in difficult terrain in just one turn to make it impossible for 9 incredibly fast flyer bases to fit anywhere, is ridiculous to say the least. If flyers run into problems regarding movement against Tyranids that don't generally shoot very hard, after their first zoom to the board, they can go into hover mode and start moving to any direction they like just like skimmers.

Someone posting on one of the smaller forums is claiming that Missile Launchers have a Strength 7 AP 4 Skyfire auxiliary fire mode. I personally hope this isn't true

I wouldn't have an insurmountable problem playing these Necrons against armies with those type of missile launchers. However, does the missile launcher's points cost reflect this ability compared to every other imperial heavy weapon? It doesn't. Would you take a lascannon instead over a missile launcher, especially as the lascannon is much more expensive? Would you take an autocannon instead of a missile launcher? For the sake of internal balance and every army list repeating just one incredibly flexible weapon option over and over again I also hope that's nothing but wishlisting.

Yeah, nightfighting for wraiths is pretty pointless now...scarabs on the other hand...

Imotekh + scarabs + spyders in a 2k+ list is fairly terrifying. 18 MCs spitting out 18 scarabs a turn. As long as you have some method of dealing with enemy flyers, and the money to buy the crapton of models you need.

xxvaderxx wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Natfka has a Q and A blog post - i believe it's been brought up but this caught my eye:

natfka's anonymous poster wrote: Two of the recurring questions are wound allocation and how assaults out of open topped vehicles work.

Wound allocation:
choose the model closest to the firing unit. this model then takes a wound. if it passes it takes another wound, this continues until that model fails. his wounds are reduced by one. If this reduces his wounds to 0 he is removed as a casualty. you then pick the next closest model to the firing unit and repeat the process. This process is essentially the same if you have different armour saves/toughness/wargear/weapons. So it is the closest model that matters. So potentially one model could take 20 wounds for an entire squad - go space wolf terminator squad leaders...

Oh man...I'm not sure if this is a good thing, or a bad thing.
Its an improvement over its predecessor and it does make sense but still...

So you have to roll individual saves and remove wounds one at a time? This is really going to slow things down isnt it? Im thinking of the times I get like 12-15 wounds on a unit with a large mob of shoota boyz...

As the previous poster mentioned, this is going to bog things down a whole damn lot, even if the unit has all the same armor, when your roll say 10 3s and 10 2s, on marines, order matters, did all 2s came first thus killing an entire unit or one and one killing half or what ever... This change is slowed.

Wait. You keep assigning wounds to the closest model until he fails? As in fails his armor/cover/invulnerable save? So, you have to roll each save one at a time until that model dies? Wow. This sounds awful...

Fetterkey wrote:Someone posting on one of the smaller forums is claiming that Missile Launchers have a Strength 7 AP 4 Skyfire auxiliary fire mode. I personally hope this isn't true, as it would make flyers substantially less relevant to the game, but who knows.

Any chance anyone with the book can confirm or deny this?

Mandor wrote:

Leth wrote:Also I played DE so I know. I played WWP De in the older rules and everything I see makes me wish I had held on to them.

You mean the part that says you can't assault when coming from reserve? Making the DE WWP close to useless?

If we place 3 WWP across an objective, we could block the enemy from getting to the objective without help from jump infantry/jetbike/skimmer transport! 105 points for situation roadblock.

Therion wrote:

Yea but according to flier rules so far they need to jet onto the table and their base cannot be over or within 1 inch of enemies, so enemies will just drive up and cover the bored with max coherency, even Tranyds will just spawn cover and infiltrate all over the bored and laugh when those nine clumbsy fliers cannot be placed on the table.

Flyers can move over enemy models but can't end their move on top or within 1" of them. Orikan makes all of the enemy's models move in difficult terrain on turn one (temporal snares), and trying to argue that you can crowd the whole table with models in difficult terrain in just one turn to make it impossible for 9 incredibly fast flyer bases to fit anywhere, is ridiculous to say the least. If flyers run into problems regarding movement against Tyranids that don't generally shoot very hard, after their first zoom to the board, they can go into hover mode and start moving to any direction they like just like skimmers.

Yea but you are assuming much about terrain and vehicles, my mech list will not care about orikan the idiot much and if I have first turn I will move 12 + in my shooting phase what ever that ends up equaling then have turn 2 to move another 6 and then run, hence avoiding your rule. You are the one dreaming if you think according to the new rules you can't cover a table easily. Mobility shot off the chart for every army, more so with skimmers. Now also factor in other people fliers and bastions and your world just got much tighter is all I am saying. Remember you can only pivot 90% also, so your next turn becomes even harder not to have to boost off the table. This gives you what? Maybe 2-3 turns to impact the mission objectives. I think your list is scary I am just saying like any polarized list it has glaring issues.

As for hover mode, you just killed your list right there. AV 11 with min cover and hull points? GL pal.

Thunderfrog wrote:

DarthOvious wrote: How does this change the metagame for Grey Knights? AP3 Force Weapons are a big nerf. I know Grey Knights needed a bit of a nerf but perhaps that is going too far. In combat against other terminator they will get mauled by the looks of it. Normal Termies get AP2 powerfists, thus ignoring 2+ armour saves and also Thundanators get AP2 weapons to go along with their Storm Shields. Meanwhile Force Weapons will do jack against them. If you even equip all your Grey Knight Termies with Daemonhammers hten that only puts them on par with normal termies. Against Thundanators they just don't stand a chance. Also not to mention Paladins will get instakilled against them.

As far as I can see Thundanators are going back to the top of the chain. They will get their 2+ armour save against most things in CC and will be taking their 3++ save a lot less. I'm lucky I have some of those for my BA but I now worried about my GKs.

I think CC oriented GKTs are going to see more auto-include Warding Staves and Force Swords. While not exactly as cheap as SS's, They will be able to soak up hits with the staves and 4+ invuls in CC. The rest of the unit will likely include a couple of hammers but honestly I've never had my paladins stuck in the muck against any other TEQ's. MEQ armor is still the vast vast majority and your GK's wont notice too much difference. It simply chages the how and when of charging a group of hammernators. (Soften them up with some Psycannons first. Rends still get AP2. I figure at 450 points you get..

Justicar with a MC Nemesis Daemonhammer Hammerhand (can be exchanged).
4 Termies with Nemesis Force Swords (1 with a Psycannon)
4 Termies with Hammers
1 Termies with a Warding Stave.

That's a 2++. 4 4++'s, 4 AP2's, and 4 AP3's. Again, not to mention hammerhand, Psyk-out grenades, and The Aegis, which got a lot better in this edition.

I guess thats the best way to go with them in 6th.

Something else I noticed though and its annoyed me now cause I was planning this. Is it just me or is Grand Master Mordrak going to be completely useless now. I don't know, perhaps there is something I've missed but it looks to me like he is now just a waste of time to take. Hes not exactly one of the more powerful characters as it is.

Basically for those that don't know, Mordrak is a Grand Master that can be accompanied by Ghost Knights. Basically Terminators that are ghosts in the fluff. When taken Mordrak counts as an upgrade character to the unit, hence meaning under 5th edition he couldn't be targetted and you can allocate the wounds. However when Mordrak takes a wound, you get an extra Ghost Knight. I just thought this idea was cool and I was going to run my army around him. However under 6th edition it looks like wounds gets targetted closest to furthest away. Meaning you get a powerfist into Mordrak closest and since he counts as an upgrade rather than as an IC, then he takes those wounds until he fails, and with a powerfist being double strength to his toughness he can killed outright. Also when Mordrak dies, all the Ghost Knights that accompany him disappear off the table as well. Unless I'm missing something then that totally sucks. What is the point in that?

Serves me right starting a new army before the release of 6th edition. I knew that GKs would come down a bit in power level but I thought that that meant they would be more balanced with other armies. I didn't realise that several units would become completely useless, especially when GKs were supposed to be designed with 6th edition in mind.

Somebody please tell me I'm missing something here. I really liked the sound of this idea but it looks like I'll need to go with something else now for GKs.

DarthOvious wrote:

Thunderfrog wrote:

DarthOvious wrote: How does this change the metagame for Grey Knights? AP3 Force Weapons are a big nerf. I know Grey Knights needed a bit of a nerf but perhaps that is going too far. In combat against other terminator they will get mauled by the looks of it. Normal Termies get AP2 powerfists, thus ignoring 2+ armour saves and also Thundanators get AP2 weapons to go along with their Storm Shields. Meanwhile Force Weapons will do jack against them. If you even equip all your Grey Knight Termies with Daemonhammers hten that only puts them on par with normal termies. Against Thundanators they just don't stand a chance. Also not to mention Paladins will get instakilled against them.

As far as I can see Thundanators are going back to the top of the chain. They will get their 2+ armour save against most things in CC and will be taking their 3++ save a lot less. I'm lucky I have some of those for my BA but I now worried about my GKs.

I think CC oriented GKTs are going to see more auto-include Warding Staves and Force Swords. While not exactly as cheap as SS's, They will be able to soak up hits with the staves and 4+ invuls in CC. The rest of the unit will likely include a couple of hammers but honestly I've never had my paladins stuck in the muck against any other TEQ's. MEQ armor is still the vast vast majority and your GK's wont notice too much difference. It simply chages the how and when of charging a group of hammernators. (Soften them up with some Psycannons first. Rends still get AP2. I figure at 450 points you get..

Justicar with a MC Nemesis Daemonhammer Hammerhand (can be exchanged).
4 Termies with Nemesis Force Swords (1 with a Psycannon)
4 Termies with Hammers
1 Termies with a Warding Stave.

That's a 2++. 4 4++'s, 4 AP2's, and 4 AP3's. Again, not to mention hammerhand, Psyk-out grenades, and The Aegis, which got a lot better in this edition.

I guess thats the best way to go with them in 6th.

Something else I noticed though and its annoyed me now cause I was planning this. Is it just me or is Grand Master Mordrak going to be completely useless now. I don't know, perhaps there is something I've missed but it looks to me like he is now just a waste of time to take. Hes not exactly one of the more powerful characters as it is.

Basically for those that don't know, Mordrak is a Grand Master that can be accompanied by Ghost Knights. Basically Terminators that are ghosts in the fluff. When taken Mordrak counts as an upgrade character to the unit, hence meaning under 5th edition he couldn't be targetted and you can allocate the wounds. However when Mordrak takes a wound, you get an extra Ghost Knight. I just thought this idea was cool and I was going to run my army around him. However under 6th edition it looks like wounds gets targetted closest to furthest away. Meaning you get a powerfist into Mordrak closest and since he counts as an upgrade rather than as an IC, then he takes those wounds until he fails, and with a powerfist being double strength to his toughness he can killed outright. Also when Mordrak dies, all the Ghost Knights that accompany him disappear off the table as well. Unless I'm missing something then that totally sucks. What is the point in that?

Serves me right starting a new army before the release of 6th edition. I knew that GKs would come down a bit in power level but I thought that that meant they would be more balanced with other armies. I didn't realise that several units would become completely useless, especially when GKs were supposed to be designed with 6th edition in mind.

Somebody please tell me I'm missing something here. I really liked the sound of this idea but it looks like I'll need to go with something else now for GKs.

Look Out Sir?

matphat wrote:Also, does anyone have a handle on how bikes have changed? I was about to build a biker army, and now I'm hesitant.

I'm interested in this too. I note it's been asked a few times already but the few people who claim to have the book have dodged the point so far and just kept on repeating all the commonly known stuff. Come on, if you have the book, look up special rules for bikes and post something ... that's if you have the book of course ...

Anpu42 wrote:

DarthOvious wrote:

Thunderfrog wrote:

DarthOvious wrote: How does this change the metagame for Grey Knights? AP3 Force Weapons are a big nerf. I know Grey Knights needed a bit of a nerf but perhaps that is going too far. In combat against other terminator they will get mauled by the looks of it. Normal Termies get AP2 powerfists, thus ignoring 2+ armour saves and also Thundanators get AP2 weapons to go along with their Storm Shields. Meanwhile Force Weapons will do jack against them. If you even equip all your Grey Knight Termies with Daemonhammers hten that only puts them on par with normal termies. Against Thundanators they just don't stand a chance. Also not to mention Paladins will get instakilled against them.

As far as I can see Thundanators are going back to the top of the chain. They will get their 2+ armour save against most things in CC and will be taking their 3++ save a lot less. I'm lucky I have some of those for my BA but I now worried about my GKs.

I think CC oriented GKTs are going to see more auto-include Warding Staves and Force Swords. While not exactly as cheap as SS's, They will be able to soak up hits with the staves and 4+ invuls in CC. The rest of the unit will likely include a couple of hammers but honestly I've never had my paladins stuck in the muck against any other TEQ's. MEQ armor is still the vast vast majority and your GK's wont notice too much difference. It simply chages the how and when of charging a group of hammernators. (Soften them up with some Psycannons first. Rends still get AP2. I figure at 450 points you get..

Justicar with a MC Nemesis Daemonhammer Hammerhand (can be exchanged).
4 Termies with Nemesis Force Swords (1 with a Psycannon)
4 Termies with Hammers
1 Termies with a Warding Stave.

That's a 2++. 4 4++'s, 4 AP2's, and 4 AP3's. Again, not to mention hammerhand, Psyk-out grenades, and The Aegis, which got a lot better in this edition.

I guess thats the best way to go with them in 6th.

Something else I noticed though and its annoyed me now cause I was planning this. Is it just me or is Grand Master Mordrak going to be completely useless now. I don't know, perhaps there is something I've missed but it looks to me like he is now just a waste of time to take. Hes not exactly one of the more powerful characters as it is.

Basically for those that don't know, Mordrak is a Grand Master that can be accompanied by Ghost Knights. Basically Terminators that are ghosts in the fluff. When taken Mordrak counts as an upgrade character to the unit, hence meaning under 5th edition he couldn't be targetted and you can allocate the wounds. However when Mordrak takes a wound, you get an extra Ghost Knight. I just thought this idea was cool and I was going to run my army around him. However under 6th edition it looks like wounds gets targetted closest to furthest away. Meaning you get a powerfist into Mordrak closest and since he counts as an upgrade rather than as an IC, then he takes those wounds until he fails, and with a powerfist being double strength to his toughness he can killed outright. Also when Mordrak dies, all the Ghost Knights that accompany him disappear off the table as well. Unless I'm missing something then that totally sucks. What is the point in that?

Serves me right starting a new army before the release of 6th edition. I knew that GKs would come down a bit in power level but I thought that that meant they would be more balanced with other armies. I didn't realise that several units would become completely useless, especially when GKs were supposed to be designed with 6th edition in mind.

Somebody please tell me I'm missing something here. I really liked the sound of this idea but it looks like I'll need to go with something else now for GKs.

Look Out Sir?

Purifiers & Crowe are still my troop of choice. I just may bring a different load out. Psycannon spam still seems good in this edition.

Red Corsair wrote:

Or the fact that it was posted that halberds are force axes, and so will be +1 st AP2 and since GK have a halberd +2 initiative meaning they strike at IN3 so will still rape conventional terminators. The only thing that was nerfed was the damn swords IMO

Ah, I didn't realise that had been suggested. That actually makes a world of difference then. If true then forget it, I have nothing to really worry about. At the moment my units are pretty much equiped with different weapons, even my basic GKs in power armour. I just like having a bit of everything to begin with to try out. I still have more GKs to buy and so I will decide later what kind of set-up I like the look of.

Random Guess Time

Lets say a squad does 20 wounds to a normal marine squad. Quite sensibly, the heavy weapon, special weapon and sergeant are at the back of the squad, hiding behind 7 normal dudes.

Start off rolling 7/20 normal armour saves. Lets say, 2 guys die.

You then roll 5/13 armour saves. Another dude dies. So you roll 4/8 saves constantly working backwards until either there's no normal guys left in front of a non-normal guy. At which point, you start rolling saves individually for him.

So it only becomes particularly long if you're firing an extremely large amount of shots at a very small unit with a lot of different weapons.

I really just think allies are going to devolve into who can take the most broken HQ combination. IG allies with a primaris psyker is even good because its 70pts for access to the new powers..

GW opened up a huge can of worms with all the unforseen combinations. Should have done what other games like Malifaux do and thats increase the cost of non-faction models.

Anpu42 wrote:

DarthOvious wrote:

Thunderfrog wrote:

DarthOvious wrote: How does this change the metagame for Grey Knights? AP3 Force Weapons are a big nerf. I know Grey Knights needed a bit of a nerf but perhaps that is going too far. In combat against other terminator they will get mauled by the looks of it. Normal Termies get AP2 powerfists, thus ignoring 2+ armour saves and also Thundanators get AP2 weapons to go along with their Storm Shields. Meanwhile Force Weapons will do jack against them. If you even equip all your Grey Knight Termies with Daemonhammers hten that only puts them on par with normal termies. Against Thundanators they just don't stand a chance. Also not to mention Paladins will get instakilled against them.

As far as I can see Thundanators are going back to the top of the chain. They will get their 2+ armour save against most things in CC and will be taking their 3++ save a lot less. I'm lucky I have some of those for my BA but I now worried about my GKs.

I think CC oriented GKTs are going to see more auto-include Warding Staves and Force Swords. While not exactly as cheap as SS's, They will be able to soak up hits with the staves and 4+ invuls in CC. The rest of the unit will likely include a couple of hammers but honestly I've never had my paladins stuck in the muck against any other TEQ's. MEQ armor is still the vast vast majority and your GK's wont notice too much difference. It simply chages the how and when of charging a group of hammernators. (Soften them up with some Psycannons first. Rends still get AP2. I figure at 450 points you get..

Justicar with a MC Nemesis Daemonhammer Hammerhand (can be exchanged).
4 Termies with Nemesis Force Swords (1 with a Psycannon)
4 Termies with Hammers
1 Termies with a Warding Stave.

That's a 2++. 4 4++'s, 4 AP2's, and 4 AP3's. Again, not to mention hammerhand, Psyk-out grenades, and The Aegis, which got a lot better in this edition.

I guess thats the best way to go with them in 6th.

Something else I noticed though and its annoyed me now cause I was planning this. Is it just me or is Grand Master Mordrak going to be completely useless now. I don't know, perhaps there is something I've missed but it looks to me like he is now just a waste of time to take. Hes not exactly one of the more powerful characters as it is.

Basically for those that don't know, Mordrak is a Grand Master that can be accompanied by Ghost Knights. Basically Terminators that are ghosts in the fluff. When taken Mordrak counts as an upgrade character to the unit, hence meaning under 5th edition he couldn't be targetted and you can allocate the wounds. However when Mordrak takes a wound, you get an extra Ghost Knight. I just thought this idea was cool and I was going to run my army around him. However under 6th edition it looks like wounds gets targetted closest to furthest away. Meaning you get a powerfist into Mordrak closest and since he counts as an upgrade rather than as an IC, then he takes those wounds until he fails, and with a powerfist being double strength to his toughness he can killed outright. Also when Mordrak dies, all the Ghost Knights that accompany him disappear off the table as well. Unless I'm missing something then that totally sucks. What is the point in that?

Serves me right starting a new army before the release of 6th edition. I knew that GKs would come down a bit in power level but I thought that that meant they would be more balanced with other armies. I didn't realise that several units would become completely useless, especially when GKs were supposed to be designed with 6th edition in mind.

Somebody please tell me I'm missing something here. I really liked the sound of this idea but it looks like I'll need to go with something else now for GKs.

Look Out Sir?

He counts as an upgrade character when he is with the unit and thus not an IC. He only gets his IC when he isn't accompanied by the unit. Is he still able to take a look out sir under these circumstances? I certainly hope so.

Compel wrote:
Lets say a squad does 20 wounds to a normal marine squad. Quite sensibly, the heavy weapon, special weapon and sergeant are at the back of the squad, hiding behind 7 normal dudes.

Start off rolling 7/20 normal armour saves. Lets say, 2 guys die.

You then roll 5/13 armour saves. Another dude dies. So you roll 4/8 saves constantly working backwards until either there's no normal guys left in front of a non-normal guy. At which point, you start rolling saves individually for him.

What would be the advantage of that over rolling all 20 at once?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarthOvious wrote:
He counts as an upgrade character when he is with the unit and thus not an IC. He only gets his IC when he isn't accompanied by the unit. Is he still able to take a look out sir under these circumstances? I certainly hope so.

I think I read on Reddit that it's a 4+ for characters and a 2+ for ICs.

Therion wrote:

Wraiths. Greatly benefit from Imotekh

Don't get me wrong I love Wraiths and they're one of the good assault units of 6th edition, but they don't benefit from Imotekh at all because they have a 3+ invulnerable save already. Night fight has been changed. During night you get +1 to your cover save if you are being shot from 12" away, +2 to your cover save if you are being shot from 24" away, and at distances of 36" or higher and you're untargetable. The flyers on the other hand do benefit from Imotekh and/or Pulseteks

Still had 5th Night Fight in mind. Argh! Might still be a good idea because Wraiths don't suffer from Night Fight just like "normal" shooting troops would do (Immortals, Warriors, etc.)....then again, one could say that you could counter this disadvantage with Solar Pulses...hmmm.

DarthOvious wrote:He counts as an upgrade character when he is with the unit and thus not an IC. He only gets his IC when he isn't accompanied by the unit. Is he still able to take a look out sir under these circumstances? I certainly hope so.

So he gets a 4+ Look Out Sir instead of a 2+.

xttz wrote:

warpcrafter wrote:
I like that a lot. Every time in 5th that I've faced Tyranids, I've had to deal with 4-6 T6 monstrous creatures. This would make them less than the unstoppable wall of flesh that they are now, especially when insulated from assault by a hundred gaunts.

I think it balances out MC's with vehicles quite nicely - high strength weapons have the same odds of one-shotting them as they do for tanks (rolling high wounds compared to high damage).

Mandor wrote:Random tidbits from: http://natfka.blogspot.nl/2012/06/6th-edition-q-and.html

* First turn assault disallowed when scouting or infiltrating;

Oh hello there pointless melee nerf.

Damn... no more scouting TL-Rokkit + Buzzsaw Deffkoptas tourbo boosting into first turn assaults... me no happy...

Has anyone considered what 3" pile in will do to horde mobs in CC?
As an Ork I have often relied on 6" pile in to bring the most models in to B2B. Should I be concerned?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

whembly wrote:

xttz wrote:

warpcrafter wrote:
I like that a lot. Every time in 5th that I've faced Tyranids, I've had to deal with 4-6 T6 monstrous creatures. This would make them less than the unstoppable wall of flesh that they are now, especially when insulated from assault by a hundred gaunts.

I think it balances out MC's with vehicles quite nicely - high strength weapons have the same odds of one-shotting them as they do for tanks (rolling high wounds compared to high damage).

Mandor wrote:Random tidbits from: http://natfka.blogspot.nl/2012/06/6th-edition-q-and.html

* First turn assault disallowed when scouting or infiltrating;

Oh hello there pointless melee nerf.

Damn... no more scouting TL-Rokkit + Buzzsaw Deffkoptas tourbo boosting into first turn assaults... me no happy...

That just makes a great argument for MOAR Rokkit Buggies I think...

DarthOvious wrote:
Basically for those that don't know, Mordrak is a Grand Master that can be accompanied by Ghost Knights. Basically Terminators that are ghosts in the fluff. When taken Mordrak counts as an upgrade character to the unit, hence meaning under 5th edition he couldn't be targetted and you can allocate the wounds. However when Mordrak takes a wound, you get an extra Ghost Knight. I just thought this idea was cool and I was going to run my army around him. However under 6th edition it looks like wounds gets targetted closest to furthest away. Meaning you get a powerfist into Mordrak closest and since he counts as an upgrade rather than as an IC, then he takes those wounds until he fails, and with a powerfist being double strength to his toughness he can killed outright. Also when Mordrak dies, all the Ghost Knights that accompany him disappear off the table as well. Unless I'm missing something then that totally sucks. What is the point in that?

Serves me right starting a new army before the release of 6th edition. I knew that GKs would come down a bit in power level but I thought that that meant they would be more balanced with other armies. I didn't realise that several units would become completely useless, especially when GKs were supposed to be designed with 6th edition in mind.

Somebody please tell me I'm missing something here. I really liked the sound of this idea but it looks like I'll need to go with something else now for GKs.

Why don't you just keep him back a little? Why would you put him in such a vulnerable position, when you could manuver him easily to not get fisted?

Double post.

matphat wrote:Has anyone considered what 3" pile in will do to horde mobs in CC?
As an Ork I have often relied on 6" pile in to bring the most models in to B2B. Should I be concerned?

I thought I heard you make full attacks from 6" so I doubt it will matter if that is the case.

Therion wrote:

Someone posting on one of the smaller forums is claiming that Missile Launchers have a Strength 7 AP 4 Skyfire auxiliary fire mode. I personally hope this isn't true

I wouldn't have an insurmountable problem playing these Necrons against armies with those type of missile launchers. However, does the missile launcher's points cost reflect this ability compared to every other imperial heavy weapon? It doesn't. Would you take a lascannon instead over a missile launcher, especially as the lascannon is much more expensive? Would you take an autocannon instead of a missile launcher? For the sake of internal balance and every army list repeating just one incredibly flexible weapon option over and over again I also hope that's nothing but wishlisting.

Agreed. If missile launchers don't get this benefit, there is a reason to take lascannons (+1 strength and AP2), but if they do the missile launcher once again becomes a pretty obvious choice.

Can someone with access to the rulebook check to see if the missile launcher Skyfire rumor is true? Also, can flyers can be hit by blasts/templates? Some have said they can't, but sources are inconsistent.

Warmaster Primus wrote:

DarthOvious wrote:
Basically for those that don't know, Mordrak is a Grand Master that can be accompanied by Ghost Knights. Basically Terminators that are ghosts in the fluff. When taken Mordrak counts as an upgrade character to the unit, hence meaning under 5th edition he couldn't be targetted and you can allocate the wounds. However when Mordrak takes a wound, you get an extra Ghost Knight. I just thought this idea was cool and I was going to run my army around him. However under 6th edition it looks like wounds gets targetted closest to furthest away. Meaning you get a powerfist into Mordrak closest and since he counts as an upgrade rather than as an IC, then he takes those wounds until he fails, and with a powerfist being double strength to his toughness he can killed outright. Also when Mordrak dies, all the Ghost Knights that accompany him disappear off the table as well. Unless I'm missing something then that totally sucks. What is the point in that?

Serves me right starting a new army before the release of 6th edition. I knew that GKs would come down a bit in power level but I thought that that meant they would be more balanced with other armies. I didn't realise that several units would become completely useless, especially when GKs were supposed to be designed with 6th edition in mind.

Somebody please tell me I'm missing something here. I really liked the sound of this idea but it looks like I'll need to go with something else now for GKs.

Why don't you just keep him back a little? Why would you put him in such a vulnerable position, when you could manuver him easily to not get fisted?

Well I'm not sure how the new assault rules work. Is it still closest model to closest model when charging? If so then perhaps that will work a bit, but essentially if your opponent is charging you, with like say a squad of BA assault marines with a powerfist sargent, he could line up the charge so his powerfist model will come into contact with Mordrak.

Like I said, I'm not sure, but considering that if Mordrak gets instakilled then the rest of the unit is removed from the table as well then it is well worth a shot at him to go through the hassle of lining it up. Mordrak has a daemon hammer as well so he'll be striking at init 1.

Red Corsair wrote:
I thought I heard you make full attacks from 6" so I doubt it will matter if that is the case.

As in, once you reach B2B anyone within 6" gets its full attack?
Woah, where did you see that?

whembly wrote: Damn... no more scouting TL-Rokkit + Buzzsaw Deffkoptas tourbo boosting into first turn assaults... me no happy...

Just don't scout. 12" move, 2d6 Charge, right? Depending on deployment, you may still get your charge in.

Is there any picture or at least a mention of 6th edition starter set in the book?

pretre wrote:

whembly wrote: Damn... no more scouting TL-Rokkit + Buzzsaw Deffkoptas tourbo boosting into first turn assaults... me no happy...

Just don't scout. 12" move, 2d6 Charge, right? Depending on deployment, you may still get your charge in.

Don't forget you get to reroll the charge dice as well.

"there's a new S7 AP4 firing mode for all imperial missile launchers called "Flakk Missile" [sic] that has skyfire" - can anyone back this up?

Davylove21 wrote:"there's a new S7 AP4 firing mode for all imperial missile launchers called "Flakk Missile" [sic] that has skyfire" - can anyone back this up?

This would suck because missiles are already by far the best Heavy Weapon in the game.

Red Corsair wrote:

pretre wrote:

whembly wrote: Damn... no more scouting TL-Rokkit + Buzzsaw Deffkoptas tourbo boosting into first turn assaults... me no happy...

Just don't scout. 12" move, 2d6 Charge, right? Depending on deployment, you may still get your charge in.

Don't forget you get to reroll the charge dice as well.

At least in 5th, you had to deploy more than 24" away, meaning 12+ 2d6 could never let you assault.

In Spearhead there were certain angles in the center less than 24", but that's the only case. Now people deploying in 6th can measure to make sure you can not assault turn 1 unless they want you to.

Davylove21 wrote:"there's a new S7 AP4 firing mode for all imperial missile launchers called "Flakk Missile" [sic] that has skyfire" - can anyone back this up?

Goodness I hope not.

/wishlist on

Eldritch Anti-Air!

/wishlist off

/e: Just realized that Gauss Weapons still remain a very effective AA weapon. Can only hit on 6? Bitch please, we auto-glance at 6s anyway!

Dracos wrote:At least in 5th, you had to deploy more than 24" away, meaning 12+ 2d6 could never let you assault.
In Spearhead there were certain angles in the center less than 24", but that's the only case. Now people deploying in 6th can measure to make sure you can not assault turn 1 unless they want you to.

Umm. You had to deploy 24" away in one deployment type. DOW was 18" and Spearhead had a couple spots you could deploy on the line and only be 16-17" away.

Also, they have to think of it to stop you. People could deploy outside of the 17" in spearhead in 5th and I still caught people with it all the time.

Red Corsair wrote:

Thunderfrog wrote:

DarthOvious wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Reserves are a 3+ on turn 2, 3+ on turn 3, and automatic on turn 4. Nice changes there, hive commander is a great upgrade now!

Here is a list of CC weapons and their AP values:

Spoiler:

Chainfist AP2
chainsword AP-
Eviscerator AP2
Heavy Chainsword AP5
Dreadnought CCW AP2
forcesword AP3
force axe AP2
Force stave AP4
Lightning Claw AP3
Power Klaw AP2
Power fist AP2
Power sword AP3
Power axe AP2
Power maul AP4
Power lance AP3/4 (first turn/subsequent)
Thunder hammer AP 2
Witchblades AP-

Power swords do not provide 5++

How does this change the metagame for Grey Knights?

Spoiler:

AP3 Force Weapons are a big nerf. I know Grey Knights needed a bit of a nerf but perhaps that is going too far. In combat against other terminator they will get mauled by the looks of it. Normal Termies get AP2 powerfists, thus ignoring 2+ armour saves and also Thundanators get AP2 weapons to go along with their Storm Shields. Meanwhile Force Weapons will do jack against them. If you even equip all your Grey Knight Termies with Daemonhammers hten that only puts them on par with normal termies. Against Thundanators they just don't stand a chance. Also not to mention Paladins will get instakilled against them.

As far as I can see Thundanators are going back to the top of the chain. They will get their 2+ armour save against most things in CC and will be taking their 3++ save a lot less. I'm lucky I have some of those for my BA but I now worried about my GKs.

Both Nemesis force halberds and Nemesis dæmonhammers are AP3 under the 6e rules as leaked. It's possible that an FAQ will change that, but until then both of them are "force weapons with special rules" and hence AP3, without the benefits of normal hammers or force axes.

pretre wrote:

Dracos wrote:At least in 5th, you had to deploy more than 24" away, meaning 12+ 2d6 could never let you assault.
In Spearhead there were certain angles in the center less than 24", but that's the only case. Now people deploying in 6th can measure to make sure you can not assault turn 1 unless they want you to.

Umm. You had to deploy 24" away in one deployment type. DOW was 18" and Spearhead had a couple spots you could deploy on the line and only be 16-17" away.

Also, they have to think of it to stop you. People could deploy outside of the 17" in spearhead in 5th and I still caught people with it all the time.

You couldnt deploy koptas in dawn of war, so the 18" is incorrect for this scenario. And I mentioned the chords of the spearhead deployment.

If you are catching people in spearhead with first turn assaults constantly, I don't know what to say. I'd think they could learn about it after the first time and react in the future.

Sigvatr wrote:/wishlist on

Eldritch Anti-Air!

/wishlist off

/e: Just realized that Gauss Weapons still remain a very effective AA weapon. Can only hit on 6? Bitch please, we auto-glance at 6s anyway!

????

You need to roll 6's to hit and then roll 6's again to glance.

Am I missing something?

Green is Best! wrote:

Sigvatr wrote:/wishlist on

Eldritch Anti-Air!

/wishlist off

/e: Just realized that Gauss Weapons still remain a very effective AA weapon. Can only hit on 6? Bitch please, we auto-glance at 6s anyway!

????

You need to roll 6's to hit and then roll 6's again to glance.

Am I missing something?

Nope, just me getting lost and confused after a long day of work

My apologies.

Green is Best! wrote:

Sigvatr wrote:/wishlist on

Eldritch Anti-Air!

/wishlist off

/e: Just realized that Gauss Weapons still remain a very effective AA weapon. Can only hit on 6? Bitch please, we auto-glance at 6s anyway!

????

You need to roll 6's to hit and then roll 6's again to glance.

Am I missing something?

Nope, you are correct. Six to hit and then a six on the penetration roll to get the the glance for gauss.

Mandor wrote:

Leth wrote:Also I played DE so I know. I played WWP De in the older rules and everything I see makes me wish I had held on to them.

You mean the part that says you can't assault when coming from reserve? Making the DE WWP close to useless?

Whaaa??

Where did you see that? What's the point to Outflanking or WWP??

I'm sure where-ever that info came from meant Deepstriking from researve, you couldn't assault...

Anxiously awaiting for my new BRB I am... or, would it be the "Big Beige Book" (BBB)? Big Hardy Book (BHB)??? Or... um... nevermind

I still do not want to park over a crowd of rapid firing metal menaces though.

Back On topic...GW stores and some FLGS will be open at midnight on Friday to sell rules and give the pre-orders out. I was once young enough to see this as a boon. Now I plan to sleep in and pick up my pre-order at eleven AM-ish.

I wonder how allies will work with chaos and demons together.
Demons deep strike in waves. If half of your army is already deployed on the board in the form of CSM does that mean that the other half of your army (demons) would deploy in one wave on turn two, or would half of the demons still deploy on turn one and half on turn two.?

I think Greyknights gettting a nerf is a good thing. Seems like they were THE army there for a long time. Looks like Necrons are now but who knows how long that will last. Especially with Chaos coming out soon (based entirely on rumored content of the Starter box set).

JB wrote:I still do not want to park over a crowd of rapid firing metal menaces though.

Back On topic...GW stores and some FLGS will be open at midnight on Friday to sell rules and give the pre-orders out. I was once young enough to see this as a boon. Now I plan to sleep in and pick up my pre-order at eleven AM-ish.

The most interesting stuff that we don't know yet will be in the form of the FAQs and erratas anyway so might as well wait with the book.

Dracos wrote:You couldnt deploy koptas in dawn of war, so the 18" is incorrect for this scenario. And I mentioned the chords of the spearhead deployment.

If you are catching people in spearhead with first turn assaults constantly, I don't know what to say. I'd think they could learn about it after the first time and react in the future.

Obviously not, but Celestine, TWC Lords, etc can assault in Spearhead and TWC Lords can assault in DoW. I was giving cases where first turn assaults aren't left to only scouting units.

I'm not catching the same guy over and over with first turn assaults. Geeze, nobody is that silly.

Grey Knights might be kicked but they are not down. Necrons certainly got a boost that was enhanced by having their flier model available as a kit.

Imperial Guard and Blood Angels also look strong as do the Space Wolves.

I can see some new advantages for the Tau and hybrid chaos armies as well so I expect to see folks pulling their armies out of mothballs for sixth edition.

Codex Space Marines aren't out of this either.

Yeah, I don't think I'll be shedding any tears for GKT of either variety. In 5e, the only weapon they needed was the halberd and it worked great for pretty much any concievable enemy other than the heaviest of vehicles with its I6, str5, ID rules combos. Heaven forbid a GK player would have to vary up their weapon selection a bit to account for vastly different enemy units instead of a one size kills all option... With the rumored changes, I'd still love it if my deathwing army could field 2 wound troop termies with FNP like the GK can do.

Yeah because now there will be oh so much variation with GK players taking hammers and um, hammers and some more hammers.
Besides, a DW player whining? Wow! You are the one who gets all the storm shields and 3++ saves, compared to these paladins are pretty much useless.

Does Come the Apocalypse mean that those forces can't ally? If not, then Can't Tyranids ally with other armies according to the Allies matrix?

GalacticDefender wrote:Does Come the Apocalypse mean that those forces can't ally? If not, then Can't Tyranids ally with other armies according to the Allies matrix?

Come the Apocalypse means you can't ally-- except, of course, in Apocalypse games, where anything goes. Nice bit of wordplay by GW there.

My book still hasn't shipped... Order from Fri night still being processed and listing the book as 'sold out'...

Sigh, following typical GW form it seems... I still haven't even received my flyer issue WD yet... I live in Montreal, it's kind of a big city lol, what is the problem????

FfFFFffffff...

I'm curious if there's any way to deny Overwatch fire, through pinning a unit down with artillery, perhaps.

MajorTom11 wrote:My book still hasn't shipped... Order from Fri night still being processed and listing the book as 'sold out'...

Sigh, following typical GW form it seems... I still haven't even received my flyer issue WD yet... I live in Montreal, it's kind of a big city lol, what is the problem????

FfFFFffffff...

Don't worry. My order said the same thing. I called customer service to confirm all was good and they assured me it was. The next day my order showed as processed and shipped. I think you will be gettign your stuff on time which likely means Monday as thats what my customer service guy told me.

Omg, I just browsed through my codex again, read Orikan's entry and...dear god, I did not realize this rule...

...if an enemy unit enters play from reserves, you may immediately deepstrike any deepstrike unit from your reservers...you know, like Flyers.

ALL OF THEM. At the same time. Sure, he gets to shoot at them. So what? Night Fight => either not being ableto shoot at all or the flyers get a 2+ (right?) cover save against shots and in your own upcoming turn, all of your flyers get to shoot at the enemy at the same time.

feth yeah.

MajorTom11 wrote:My book still hasn't shipped... Order from Fri night still being processed and listing the book as 'sold out'...

Sigh, following typical GW form it seems... I still haven't even received my flyer issue WD yet... I live in Montreal, it's kind of a big city lol, what is the problem????

FfFFFffffff...

Same with me. I got the shipping confirmation from one of my two orders... but not the collectors edition; and I ordered it minutes after it became available because I'm that kind of idiot with this stuff.

I called as well, and they informed me that it should be fine, but I'm still dubious.

junk wrote:

MajorTom11 wrote:My book still hasn't shipped... Order from Fri night still being processed and listing the book as 'sold out'...

Sigh, following typical GW form it seems... I still haven't even received my flyer issue WD yet... I live in Montreal, it's kind of a big city lol, what is the problem????

FfFFFffffff...

Same with me. I got the shipping confirmation from one of my two orders... but not the collectors edition; and I ordered it minutes after it became available because I'm that kind of idiot with this stuff.

I called as well, and they informed me that it should be fine, but I'm still dubious.

My Gamers edition was confirmed shipped this morning, not sure if it's different being in the UK.

Pyriel- wrote:

Yeah, I don't think I'll be shedding any tears for GKT of either variety. In 5e, the only weapon they needed was the halberd and it worked great for pretty much any concievable enemy other than the heaviest of vehicles with its I6, str5, ID rules combos. Heaven forbid a GK player would have to vary up their weapon selection a bit to account for vastly different enemy units instead of a one size kills all option... With the rumored changes, I'd still love it if my deathwing army could field 2 wound troop termies with FNP like the GK can do.

Yeah because now there will be oh so much variation with GK players taking hammers and um, hammers and some more hammers.
Besides, a DW player whining? Wow! You are the one who gets all the storm shields and 3++ saves, compared to these paladins are pretty much useless.

so the shoe is on the other foot lol, now us DW players can spam the living crap out of weapons that can kill everyhing and loltroll away at other players, GK got a little nerf... shame eh, DW got a big buff... bout bloody time

@Sigvatr: unfortunately flyers cannot deepstrike.

^If tht's true then what was GW thinking

MajorTom11 wrote:My book still hasn't shipped... Order from Fri night still being processed and listing the book as 'sold out'...

HA! You think that's bad. Mine shipped yesterday, and will arrive today, whilst I am at work (it could have arrived yesterday, when I was at home, or tomorrow, when I'll be at home). This means it will go back to the post office where I'll need to pick it up, except I won't have my car because I'm taking it in for repairs. So it will sit there with me unable to get it.

Grrrrr!!!!!!!!

Griever wrote:

Davylove21 wrote:"there's a new S7 AP4 firing mode for all imperial missile launchers called "Flakk Missile" [sic] that has skyfire" - can anyone back this up?

This would suck because missiles are already by far the best Heavy Weapon in the game.

Actually i think this would be the only thing preventing this edition becoming the flyer edition now that vehicles suck.

Matt.Kingsley wrote:^If tht's true then what was GW thinking

And Phil isn't too good at maths, in the ltest vid from GW he said "there's at least 35 psychic powers"
6*5=/=35, it equals 30
30<35

Good one Phil


Unless there's another psychic lore

There's a "Primary Power" for each lore that you can take instead of the one you rolled. So 7 powers for each of 5 lores makes for 35 powers.

Summary of them all on post #1.


Edit: hidden under the spoiler "A Q&A session by Dakka's rattman:"

Personally i am not pro to Necrons getting any more buffs. They already get some huge bumps. the last thing they need is yet another bigger buff to their power.

Bout time DW gets a bump. i have plenty of freinds with DW armies that will be stoked as all get up over this.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

MajorTom11 wrote:My book still hasn't shipped... Order from Fri night still being processed and listing the book as 'sold out'...

HA! You think that's bad. Mine shipped yesterday, and will arrive today, whilst I am at work (it could have arrived yesterday, when I was at home, or tomorrow, when I'll be at home). This means it will go back to the post office where I'll need to pick it up, except I won't have my car because I'm taking it in for repairs. So it will sit there with me unable to get it.

Grrrrr!!!!!!!!

Can't you leave a note for your postman to leave it at the door?

Melcavuk wrote:

junk wrote:

MajorTom11 wrote:My book still hasn't shipped... Order from Fri night still being processed and listing the book as 'sold out'...

Sigh, following typical GW form it seems... I still haven't even received my flyer issue WD yet... I live in Montreal, it's kind of a big city lol, what is the problem????

FfFFFffffff...

Same with me. I got the shipping confirmation from one of my two orders... but not the collectors edition; and I ordered it minutes after it became available because I'm that kind of idiot with this stuff.

I called as well, and they informed me that it should be fine, but I'm still dubious.

My Gamers edition was confirmed shipped this morning, not sure if it's different being in the UK.

Then colour me concerned as I live in the UK and my order is still processing as of five minutes ago

Matt.Kingsley wrote:^If tht's true then what was GW thinking

And Phil isn't too good at maths, in the ltest vid from GW he said "there's at least 35 psychic powers"
6*5=/=35, it equals 30
30<35

Good one Phil


Unless there's another psychic lore

6 + 1 that you can swap for with 5 lores that would be 35.

elrabin wrote:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:^If tht's true then what was GW thinking

And Phil isn't too good at maths, in the ltest vid from GW he said "there's at least 35 psychic powers"
6*5=/=35, it equals 30
30<35

Good one Phil


Unless there's another psychic lore

There's a "Primary Power" for each lore that you can take instead of the one you rolled. So 7 powers for each of 5 lores makes for 35 powers.

Summary of them all on post #1.


Edit: hidden under the spoiler "A Q&A session by Dakka's rattman:"

I forgot about the primaris powers , thanks!

elrabin wrote:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:^If tht's true then what was GW thinking

And Phil isn't too good at maths, in the ltest vid from GW he said "there's at least 35 psychic powers"
6*5=/=35, it equals 30
30<35

Good one Phil


Unless there's another psychic lore

There's a "Primary Power" for each lore that you can take instead of the one you rolled. So 7 powers for each of 5 lores makes for 35 powers.

Summary of them all on post #1.


Edit: hidden under the spoiler "A Q&A session by Dakka's rattman:"

Wait, so you have to random your powers now?, even if you choose your default list from your dex?

Sigvatr wrote:Omg, I just browsed through my codex again, read Orikan's entry and...dear god, I did not realize this rule...

...if an enemy unit enters play from reserves, you may immediately deepstrike any deepstrike unit from your reservers...you know, like Flyers.

ALL OF THEM. At the same time. Sure, he gets to shoot at them. So what? Night Fight => either not being ableto shoot at all or the flyers get a 2+ (right?) cover save against shots and in your own upcoming turn, all of your flyers get to shoot at the enemy at the same time.

feth yeah.

Our books must be really different, Orikan in my codex has no such ability. Nemesor Zahndrek has that rule though

so the shoe is on the other foot lol, now us DW players can spam the living crap out of weapons that can kill everyhing and loltroll away at other players, GK got a little nerf... shame eh, DW got a big buff... bout bloody time

wow, so your version of a fun and balanced game is to switch one set of crap for another set of crap?
Check!

xxvaderxx wrote:
Wait, so you have to random your powers now?, even if you choose your default list from your dex?

No. If you choose to take the powers from your codex, that's what you get.

If you instead choose to take powers from lore(s) instead, you roll on a table for the lore to determine what you get. These replace your codex powers. You can replace one of your rolls with the primary power for the lore if you don't like the power you rolled.

Post #1 has more info (and a chart) on what armies can use what lores. Some armies (like CSM) access lores differently.

pretre wrote:Can't you leave a note for your postman to leave it at the door?

Not in my apartment complex, no.

matphat wrote:

Red Corsair wrote:
I thought I heard you make full attacks from 6" so I doubt it will matter if that is the case.

As in, once you reach B2B anyone within 6" gets its full attack?
Woah, where did you see that?

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

This was a false rumour that came from illiterate/lazy people reading the page of rules seen in the first preview video dealing with combats in ruins. You can chip in 6" attacks in vertical combats when you're measuring to a model on a different level. Combats on a single plane are still 2" only.

Thimn wrote:

Sigvatr wrote:Omg, I just browsed through my codex again, read Orikan's entry and...dear god, I did not realize this rule...

...if an enemy unit enters play from reserves, you may immediately deepstrike any deepstrike unit from your reservers...you know, like Flyers.

ALL OF THEM. At the same time. Sure, he gets to shoot at them. So what? Night Fight => either not being ableto shoot at all or the flyers get a 2+ (right?) cover save against shots and in your own upcoming turn, all of your flyers get to shoot at the enemy at the same time.

feth yeah.

Our books must be really different, Orikan in my codex has no such ability. Nemesor Zahndrek has that rule though

Zahndrek has it

just another thought now, with these buffs DW has actually become the BEST all termy army again, cheap cycs (and if ML apparently do get skyfire) that can deal with any flyers, cheap Belial with a TH/SS (this guy in my opinion is THE best most under rated cost effective dude in the game) and can take alot of TH/SS and LC mixed in.. well lets see if its all true, i so.... its good to be king for a change


Edit: Oh and sammael in his speeder just got a buff too, 5+ cover and AV14 for the win!!!

Hmm, I just remembered how there was this piece of mysterious terrain (or was it a mysterious objective?) in the BatRep in WD that turned out to be a psyker killing swarm
that+GK=Win for non GK player!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

pretre wrote:Can't you leave a note for your postman to leave it at the door?

Not in my apartment complex, no.

/hug

Understanding friend, loved one, random passerby who will drive you to the post?

edit: I just found out one of my orders (the gamer's) will not be in on Saturday. Good thing I pre-ordered two from two different stores.

I have read somewhere that pistols no longer provide extra CC attack, can anyone confirm this?.

Formosa wrote:just another thought now, with these buffs DW has actually become the BEST all termy army again, cheap cycs (and if ML apparently do get skyfire) that can deal with any flyers, cheap Belial with a TH/SS (this guy in my opinion is THE best most under rated cost effective dude in the game) and can take alot of TH/SS and LC mixed in.. well lets see if its all true, i so.... its good to be king for a change

Sounds like you forgot about Black Templars.

This has probably been answered a dozen times allready, but im to lazy looking through hundreds of pages:
Is there an official date for when the new codecies will come?

Valkyria wrote:This has probably been answered a dozen times allready, but im to lazy looking through hundreds of pages:
Is there an official date for when the new codecies will come?

Yes, July 1st*


*Answer may be completely fictitious. You might want to confirm it by reading the first post of the thread where all the good information is kept.

Ive gotta admit; I'm more than a little disappointed that the Monolith apparently is dead and gone now. I had reserved judgement and held out hoping that it would receive some form of Deep Strike protection, but that's looking more and more like a pipe dream now.

-200 points
-can only ever move 6"
-cannot snapfire its blast weapon
-cannot snapfire its doorway attack
-hull points render its Living Metal rule almost worthless
-6"x6" base effectively means it cannot deep strike anywhere within 7" inches of the enemy or impassible terrain, lest it mishap
-the new mishap table doesn't benefit the Monolith at all, as if the opponent places it in a far corner, its slow speed effectively removes it from the battle entirely

I'm well aware that the Necrons have lots of other competitive options, but that's not the point here. I was just hoping that the Monolith would be made playable even at a beer & pretzels level, of which it currently cannot even stand up in. I certainly hope that I've missed something that makes the Monolith even remotely useful, because they're so unique and look awesome on the tabletop that I don't want to be forced to pack them away.

Fetterkey wrote:

Formosa wrote:just another thought now, with these buffs DW has actually become the BEST all termy army again, cheap cycs (and if ML apparently do get skyfire) that can deal with any flyers, cheap Belial with a TH/SS (this guy in my opinion is THE best most under rated cost effective dude in the game) and can take alot of TH/SS and LC mixed in.. well lets see if its all true, i so.... its good to be king for a change

Sounds like you forgot about Black Templars.

oh my bad they also got a buff, there termies are good and comparable to DW ones, but cannot mix weapons (for 5 TH/SS and a cyc) and cannot be spammed as much (do to diferent force org), but otherwise... hell yeah BT got buffed too yyyeeeee haaaawww lol

What does he mean by 'new codices'?
If he means FAQ, then prob 1st July, but should be 30th June...
If he means rulebook, 30th June

Matt.Kingsley wrote:What does he mean by 'new codices'?
If he means FAQ, then prob 1st July, but should be 30th June...
If he means rulebook, 30th June

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that he means Codex (plural).

If he meant FAQ or rulebook, he probably would have used those words rather than a tortured plural of codex.

leohart wrote:@Sigvatr: unfortunately flyers cannot deepstrike.

Ummm... wish I could play you. In the old DE dex, their cardboard boxes could.
In the Newcron dex the flyers can.

I wonder: if everyone gets a 6+ save for Deny the Witch, would that work against Psybolt ammo? Because if so, it would provide a nice -although small- buff to infanty being torn to pieces by Psyrifledreads.



also: haven't seen any confirmation of my book shipping yet; ordered direct through the GW US site. Called customer service, was told "they're just packing it now", which seemed like a strange answer. I remain incredulous.

pretre wrote:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:What does he mean by 'new codices'?
If he means FAQ, then prob 1st July, but should be 30th June...
If he means rulebook, 30th June

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that he means Codex (plural).

If he meant FAQ or rulebook, he probably would have used those words rather than a tortured plural of codex.

I know codice is the plural of codex...

But I meant as in what was he refering too, I mean no new codex should be coming out until (at least) August?
He just confused me with the use of Codice...

I meant the CODICE for each race -.-
forgive my lack of using the word on daily basis

azazel the cat wrote:I wonder: if everyone gets a 6+ save for Deny the Witch, would that work against Psybolt ammo? Because if so, it would provide a nice -although small- buff to infanty being torn to pieces by Psyrifledreads.

Why would it? Psybolts are not a psychic power.

Matt.Kingsley wrote:But I meant as in what was he refering too, I mean no new codex should be coming out until (at least) August?
He just confused me with the use of Codice...

Ahh, but he doesn't know that. He also doesn't know to check the first page of the thread for details.

GK=Win for non GK player!

True. If psyfledreads get skyfire GK might barely be able to not auto loose vs flyer spam, otherwise GK will as I see it, again become as useless as they were before they got their new codex.
You simply cant beat fliers with a 24´ranged army or with 2 super expensive flying chickens.

Valkyria wrote:I meant the CODICE for each race -.-
forgive my lack of using the word on daily basis

See, told you.

Next codex is rumored to be Chaos. Fall-ish, maybe.

No, codexes is the plural of codex. We don't speak Latin, we speak English.

Pyriel- wrote: If psyfledreads get skyfire GK might barely be able to not auto loose vs flyer spam, otherwise GK will as I see it, again become as useless as they were before they got their new codex.
You simply cant beat fliers with a 24´ranged army or with 2 super expensive flying chickens.

Honestly, I wouldn't be sad not to face a GK army every other game. Bring the nerfs.

Not that I believe the dooooom! there. I don't think a couple fliers is really going to annihilate your whole force.

k sorry, it makes sense to me now, I'm just very tired

Surely it's codexen.

Pyriel- wrote:

GK=Win for non GK player!

True. If psyfledreads get skyfire GK might barely be able to not auto loose vs flyer spam, otherwise GK will as I see it, again become as useless as they were before they got their new codex.
You simply cant beat fliers with a 24´ranged army or with 2 super expensive flying chickens.

You should take a look at the rules for fortifications before saying stuff like that.

Let's all get back on topic and speak about the rule book + rules+goodies, not codice/codexes/codices/codexen ( WTF)

Joey wrote:No, codexes is the plural of codex. We don't speak Latin, we speak English.

Speak for yourself.

Fetterkey wrote:

Pyriel- wrote:

GK=Win for non GK player!

True. If psyfledreads get skyfire GK might barely be able to not auto loose vs flyer spam, otherwise GK will as I see it, again become as useless as they were before they got their new codex.
You simply cant beat fliers with a 24´ranged army or with 2 super expensive flying chickens.

You should take a look at the rules for fortifications before saying stuff like that.

Meh, death to the psykers seeming everyone can ignore there powers on a 6+

And that piece of terrain....

Also, does wargear improve impact hit's str, or is it based on your, well, base str?

Joey wrote:No, codexes is the plural of codex. We don't speak Latin, we speak English.

Codex is a latin word, its plural is codices. If you were speaking english you would call it a book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:

Pyriel- wrote:

GK=Win for non GK player!

True. If psyfledreads get skyfire GK might barely be able to not auto loose vs flyer spam, otherwise GK will as I see it, again become as useless as they were before they got their new codex.
You simply cant beat fliers with a 24´ranged army or with 2 super expensive flying chickens.

You should take a look at the rules for fortifications before saying stuff like that.

Meh, death to the psykers seeming everyone can ignore there powers on a 6+

And that piece of terrain....

Also, does wargear improve impact hit's str, or is it based on your, well, base str?

I believe, from what people put earlier, that it's your base strength. So strength bonuses from weapons don't get added, it's literally your jump infantry or monstrous creature or whatever smashing into the opponent with its body mass, before they start swinging their massive weapon around.

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Joey wrote:No, codexes is the plural of codex. We don't speak Latin, we speak English.

Codex is a latin word, its plural is codices. If you were speaking english you would call it a book.

Kind of right, except English is full of foreign words that are now english. Codex is both a latin and an english word by now. Just as book came from Old English, German and Gothic.

You should take a look at the rules for fortifications before saying stuff like that.

I doubt a 200 point bunker with a single intercepting and skyfiring lascannon on top will change much. I'd have a hard time justifying spending points on a thing like that for any of my armies.

If the Aegis Defence line costs only ~80 points and has one skyfiring TL autocannon plus provides cover, that might be a reasonably points efficient purchase for armies with shooty units and no power armor.

Convenient because Aegis is 50 and the Quad gun is 35, if I remember the first post correctly.

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Joey wrote:No, codexes is the plural of codex. We don't speak Latin, we speak English.

Codex is a latin word, its plural is codices. If you were speaking english you would call it a book.

I would bet pennies to pounds that "codex" is in the English dictionary. It is an English word, derived from the Latin.
You don't go around pluralising words based on their etymologies. Do you know the rules for pluralising in greek? If not, I hope you never need to speak of plurals of democracies, etymologies, aristocracies etc. To say nothing of other Latin words. Civics? Whoops, wrong. Civic..ii?
English is easy. Stick an "s" on the end. Sometimes stick "es" on the end. Please don't over-complicate things.

I believe, from what people put earlier, that it's your base strength. So strength bonuses from weapons don't get added, it's literally your jump infantry or monstrous creature or whatever smashing into the opponent with its body mass, before they start swinging their massive weapon around.

Oh well....


And BT assault marines will rock now with 3pt storm shields lessening possible carnage from assaulting a unit with ap 3 + weapons (1K Sons, for example)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Joey wrote:

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Joey wrote:No, codexes is the plural of codex. We don't speak Latin, we speak English.

Codex is a latin word, its plural is codices. If you were speaking english you would call it a book.

I would bet pennies to pounds that "codex" is in the English dictionary. It is an English word, derived from the Latin.
You don't go around pluralising words based on their etymologies. Do you know the rules for pluralising in greek? If not, I hope you never need to speak of plurals of democracies, etymologies, aristocracies etc. To say nothing of other Latin words. Civics? Whoops, wrong. Civic..ii?
English is easy. Stick an "s" on the end. Sometimes stick "es" on the end. Please don't over-complicate things.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/codices

Case closed

Fetterkey wrote:Both Nemesis force halberds and Nemesis dæmonhammers are AP3 under the 6e rules as leaked. It's possible that an FAQ will change that, but until then both of them are "force weapons with special rules" and hence AP3, without the benefits of normal hammers or force axes.

Actually daemonhammers follow the rules for thunderhammers in the rulebook in addition to getting their nemesis weapon rules.

Joey wrote:

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Joey wrote:No, codexes is the plural of codex. We don't speak Latin, we speak English.

Codex is a latin word, its plural is codices. If you were speaking english you would call it a book.

I would bet pennies to pounds that "codex" is in the English dictionary. It is an English word, derived from the Latin.
You don't go around pluralising words based on their etymologies. Do you know the rules for pluralising in greek? If not, I hope you never need to speak of plurals of democracies, etymologies, aristocracies etc. To say nothing of other Latin words. Civics? Whoops, wrong. Civic..ii?
English is easy. Stick an "s" on the end. Sometimes stick "es" on the end. Please don't over-complicate things.

English is easy?

English is one of the most ridiculous languages in the world. Pretty much every "rule" of the English language has exceptions. It doesn't need any help from me to make it any more complicated than it already is.

DarthOvious wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:Both Nemesis force halberds and Nemesis dæmonhammers are AP3 under the 6e rules as leaked. It's possible that an FAQ will change that, but until then both of them are "force weapons with special rules" and hence AP3, without the benefits of normal hammers or force axes.

Actually daemonhammers follow the rules for thunderhammers in the rulebook in addition to getting their nemesis weapon rules.

Interesting. This means one place in the rulebook says they're AP2, and one says AP3. I hope the FAQs come out fast...

Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Oh well....


And BT assault marines will rock now with 3pt storm shields lessening possible carnage from assaulting a unit with ap 3 + weapons (1K Sons, for example)

if only they still cost 3 pts. Remember they were apart of that big update that BT got...along with PotMS, CML, typhoons etc?

Fetterkey wrote:

DarthOvious wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:Both Nemesis force halberds and Nemesis dæmonhammers are AP3 under the 6e rules as leaked. It's possible that an FAQ will change that, but until then both of them are "force weapons with special rules" and hence AP3, without the benefits of normal hammers or force axes.

Actually daemonhammers follow the rules for thunderhammers in the rulebook in addition to getting their nemesis weapon rules.

Interesting. This means one place in the rulebook says they're AP2, and one says AP3. I hope the FAQs come out fast...

Or someone on an internet thread got a rule quote wrong.

wait, they changed? where in the FAQ is that? All I can see is the change from 10 pts to 15pts for characters?
\
EDIT: wait, I see it now... gaddamn it

Merriam-Webster says that the plural is 'codices'

Oxford says that the plural is 'codices' or 'codexes'

So, everyone's right.

Matt.Kingsley wrote:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/codices

Case closed

Wow, you mean people who write dictionaries enjoy using obscure Hellenic-Latin gramattical rules to make themselves seem better than others?
Yeah, I'm sticking with codexes thanks.

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Joey wrote:

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Joey wrote:No, codexes is the plural of codex. We don't speak Latin, we speak English.

Codex is a latin word, its plural is codices. If you were speaking english you would call it a book.

I would bet pennies to pounds that "codex" is in the English dictionary. It is an English word, derived from the Latin.
You don't go around pluralising words based on their etymologies. Do you know the rules for pluralising in greek? If not, I hope you never need to speak of plurals of democracies, etymologies, aristocracies etc. To say nothing of other Latin words. Civics? Whoops, wrong. Civic..ii?
English is easy. Stick an "s" on the end. Sometimes stick "es" on the end. Please don't over-complicate things.

English is easy?

English is one of the most ridiculous languages in the world. Pretty much every "rule" of the English language has exceptions. It doesn't need any help from me to make it any more complicated than it already is.

The rules for English make about as much sense as some of the GW written rules. I think dakka needs a YMDC section on the english language. lol

Either way, can you guys start up a thread in off-topic instead of discussing it here?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

MajorTom11 wrote:My book still hasn't shipped... Order from Fri night still being processed and listing the book as 'sold out'...

HA! You think that's bad. Mine shipped yesterday, and will arrive today, whilst I am at work (it could have arrived yesterday, when I was at home, or tomorrow, when I'll be at home). This means it will go back to the post office where I'll need to pick it up, except I won't have my car because I'm taking it in for repairs. So it will sit there with me unable to get it.

Grrrrr!!!!!!!!

Well, here in the good old US of A, we have these things called Taxicabs. If it was me I'd be calling one to go to the post office and have them wait while I go inside and get my rulebook and then have them drive me home.

dajobe wrote:
The rules for English make about as much sense as some of the GW written rules. I think dakka needs a YMDC section on the english language. lol

English is fine. French/German etc vowels have genders ffs. Basically every single object is either "male" or "female" and it's randomly assigned, and you use different words around it depending on that.
English is relatively simple. The [object] is [adjective]. Simples.

Yes please. Let's get back to guessing about how awesome allies are going to be, since 90% of everything said here is about allies.
I'll lead it up.
Daemons and CSM! amirtie?

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Joey wrote:No, codexes is the plural of codex. We don't speak Latin, we speak English.

Codex is a latin word, its plural is codices. If you were speaking english you would call it a book.

This always makes me think of an octopus now.

Joey wrote:

dajobe wrote:
The rules for English make about as much sense as some of the GW written rules. I think dakka needs a YMDC section on the english language. lol

English is fine. French/German etc vowels have genders ffs. Basically every single object is either "male" or "female" and it's randomly assigned, and you use different words around it depending on that.
English is relatively simple. The [object] is [adjective]. Simples.

English is the hardest WRITTEN language used today... It's a well known fact
of course, I haven't said anything about spoken...

ANYWAY, we're getting way off topic, start a new thread for it....

Formosa wrote:

Pyriel- wrote:

Yeah, I don't think I'll be shedding any tears for GKT of either variety. In 5e, the only weapon they needed was the halberd and it worked great for pretty much any concievable enemy other than the heaviest of vehicles with its I6, str5, ID rules combos. Heaven forbid a GK player would have to vary up their weapon selection a bit to account for vastly different enemy units instead of a one size kills all option... With the rumored changes, I'd still love it if my deathwing army could field 2 wound troop termies with FNP like the GK can do.

Yeah because now there will be oh so much variation with GK players taking hammers and um, hammers and some more hammers.
Besides, a DW player whining? Wow! You are the one who gets all the storm shields and 3++ saves, compared to these paladins are pretty much useless.

so the shoe is on the other foot lol, now us DW players can spam the living crap out of weapons that can kill everyhing and loltroll away at other players, GK got a little nerf... shame eh, DW got a big buff... bout bloody time

Although I agree that DW needed a buff, the point of this new rulebook should be to set the scale at zero and balance everything out. Otherwise things will just get more messed up as they start releasing codices again.

Besides if they give you a major buff now with the rules then whats left to include in the codex you are supposed to get soon?

Joey wrote:Yeah, I'm sticking with codexes thanks.

Good for you, (Internet) tough guy. English is a mongrel language.

Zathras wrote:Well, here in the good old US of A, we have these things called Taxicabs. If it was me I'd be calling one to go to the post office and have them wait while I go inside and get my rulebook and then have them drive me home.

And lose all of the money I saved in the discount by paying the taxi to take me to the post office. Sounds like a plan!

Matt.Kingsley wrote:
English is the hardest WRITTEN language used today... It's a well known fact
of course, I haven't said anything about spoken...

How can memorising 26 charectors possibly be harder than the thousands in Chinese/Japanese languages?
For the record, making a point then telling other people to drop it is very passive aggressive and highly unlikely to work.

I'm excited that the couple people that have already said they've played it say it's more seamless and intuitive. I was wondering which page those graph for average assault with and without fleet are on if anyone remembers. (I may or may not be trying to avoid talking about allies. Except what are the fantasy ally rules vs. the new 40k rules?)(Parenthesis have become useless in this post I realize this)

GW uses "codexes", not "codicies"

Order still says "processing", sigh...

...I have an answer but seeming it's off topic I'm not going to say it...

EDIT: God damn it can't stop my self...
All the rules (as said before) have exceptions, juch as i before e except after c
and then there are the words that sound the same, mean something different and are spelt different
then the words that are spelt the same but mean different things
the list goes on and on
And I wasn't mking a point and then telling you to shut up, I said make a new thread as this isn't the place to have this argument



ON TOPIC:
After reading through I've decided I don't just hate random charge range, I hate random psychic powers

Joey wrote:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:
English is the hardest WRITTEN language used today... It's a well known fact
of course, I haven't said anything about spoken...

How can memorising 26 charectors possibly be harder than the thousands in Chinese/Japanese languages?
For the record, making a point then telling other people to drop it is very passive aggressive and highly unlikely to work.

The fact you spelt characters wrong proves their point...

Does this discussion of spelling mean that you're all done with talking about 6e? If so, I'll close the thread. If not, back on topic please.

No, we aren't done, just getting off topic because we're fools like that...

Pyriel- wrote:
True. If psyfledreads get skyfire GK might barely be able to not auto loose vs flyer spam, otherwise GK will as I see it, again become as useless as they were before they got their new codex.
You simply cant beat fliers with a 24´ranged army or with 2 super expensive flying chickens.

You mean we might not see GK in every other 40k game now? Oh noes! If only their S8 autocannon spam already had multiple shots, twin-linked, a low point cost and was already well-represented in most competitive player armies. We should totally slap Skyfire on top of that too!

Actually true story... GK are in about half the games I see, and I've never seen them fight daemons/chaos. Not once.

The random powers are super annoying because if you told me I had to take random war gear on a unit I would say "forget about it!" The random charge distance is annoying but will change tactics up a little which I always like. I'm most worried about psychic powers because I just read the WD and they mention that codexes(my spell check is ok with this one) will eventually operate completely off these powers.....which i hate the idea of. If given a choice I'm happy to play along.

Matt.Kingsley wrote:ON TOPIC:
After reading through I've decided I don't just hate random charge range, I hate random psychic powers

Until every Codex (or, perhaps, all the Codices) have random powers I wouldn't worry too much about it. These ones are not as integral as the WFB it seems.

Also to get back on topic...

Does it sound like 'dancing' will become a legitimate tactic for wound distribution?

i.e. a unit of multi-wound models has one of them wounded at the end of the enemy turn. Next turn the unit moves to surround him so that he's no longer nearest the enemy, and other intact models take wounds first.

The Random Powers are an Option to take I Thought.

Unfortunately the next CSM codex (in whatever shape or form it takes) will probably have that sort of psychic power randomise-y-thing

Ork powers have always been random, why not everyone else?
=D

Re: ''dancing" : so i can finally play wound allocation tricks with my ogryns? Yay!

Pyriel- wrote:

Yeah, I don't think I'll be shedding any tears for GKT of either variety. In 5e, the only weapon they needed was the halberd and it worked great for pretty much any concievable enemy other than the heaviest of vehicles with its I6, str5, ID rules combos. Heaven forbid a GK player would have to vary up their weapon selection a bit to account for vastly different enemy units instead of a one size kills all option... With the rumored changes, I'd still love it if my deathwing army could field 2 wound troop termies with FNP like the GK can do.

Yeah because now there will be oh so much variation with GK players taking hammers and um, hammers and some more hammers.
Besides, a DW player whining? Wow! You are the one who gets all the storm shields and 3++ saves, compared to these paladins are pretty much useless.

Why would you only take hammers when the rest of us are suggesting a varied load to deal with varied opponents? Last I checked, there's not a single codex out there in which the majority of units listed have a 2+ save that would render a GK army's standard weapon (a power weapon) as useless with a change to ap3. Since when is a 2+/5+ 2 wound unit with BETTER than marine stats, power weapons and storm bolters standard, psychic defense, options for str5 shooting and close combat at init6 ID when needed useless? In the VAST majority of cases (basically anything other than facing other terminators or meganobs), GK do better than other terminator builds due to their incredibly versatile loadouts. Please keep the massive exaggerations to a minimum as GK simply lost their one weapon kills all regardless of opponent option; now they're just forced to make real choices in their loadout like everyone else.

orks can use all their powers in one game, the new powers are rolled for at the start and kept from then until the games ends

Chaos. That’s the big test.

Right now the new powers are optional because everyone can just pay for their regular ‘Codex’ powers, and then swap them for the rando-powers if they want. Once the new Chaos Codex hits (the first Chaos Codex since 3.5 – it’s been a long time coming!) we’ll find out for sure if rando-powers are a new feature of every ‘Dex, or just an oddity added to the main rules.

Eldar Craft wrote:The random powers are super annoying because if you told me I had to take random war gear on a unit I would say "forget about it!" The random charge distance is annoying but will change tactics up a little which I always like. I'm most worried about psychic powers because I just read the WD and they mention that codexes(my spell check is ok with this one) will eventually operate completely off these powers.....which i hate the idea of. If given a choice I'm happy to play along.

I wouldn't be surprised to see named characters in future codexes codecies army books get to either choose some powers, or re-roll them as a bonus.

Taking the book powers is an optional thing but the plan, it seems, is to move away from whatever a codex has now to make them more dependent on the BRB powers. the WD says "As new Codexes come around, we'll be harnessing these new core psychic disciplines more and more. But it really does seem a shame to leave them unused and unloved in the meantime. "

Matt.Kingsley wrote:Unfortunately the next CSM codex (in whatever shape or form it takes) will probably have that sort of psychic power randomise-y-thing

Random Powers for Chaos makes sense in a weird/not so weird way.

I know that with Njal, I wont be taking the Random Powers I like Living Lightning and Murderous Hurricane to much. The same with my Grey Knights Librarian, but Ezekiel on the other hand…

Fetterkey wrote:

DarthOvious wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:Both Nemesis force halberds and Nemesis dæmonhammers are AP3 under the 6e rules as leaked. It's possible that an FAQ will change that, but until then both of them are "force weapons with special rules" and hence AP3, without the benefits of normal hammers or force axes.

Actually daemonhammers follow the rules for thunderhammers in the rulebook in addition to getting their nemesis weapon rules.

Interesting. This means one place in the rulebook says they're AP2, and one says AP3. I hope the FAQs come out fast...

Didn't someone already state that the rulebook says that the GK codex takes precedent. The codex states what force weapons do but also states that the individual descriptions are in addition to what is stated above. Actually I will quote it, it will be easier that way.

Page 54 - Under further abilites - The various types of Nemesis force weapon have one or more other abilities, as listed on this page. These always apply in addition to the force weapon and daemonbane abilities given above.

So in essence for daemonhammers we gain the thunderhammer abilities in addition to the force weapon abilities, which would mean we get to use the AP2 of the weapon stated in the rulebook.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Chaos. That’s the big test.

Right now the new powers are optional because everyone can just pay for their regular ‘Codex’ powers, and then swap them for the rando-powers if they want. Once the new Chaos Codex hits (the first Chaos Codex since 3.5 – it’s been a long time coming!) we’ll find out for sure if rando-powers are a new feature of every ‘Dex, or just an oddity added to the main rules.

Which annoys me coz I always take 2 psykers, and I don't want random powers, i want set-in-stone powers...
Of course, I could just take the primaris power but I want strong powers... And knowing GW if random powers are in the next CSM dex the primaris power will suck


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Anpu42 wrote:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:Unfortunately the next CSM codex (in whatever shape or form it takes) will probably have that sort of psychic power randomise-y-thing

Random Powers for Chaos makes sense in a weird/not so weird way.

I know that with Njal, I wont be taking the Random Powers I like Living Lightning and Murderous Hurricane to much. The same with my Grey Knights Librarian, but Ezekiel on the other hand…

Chaos are already random enough with spawn...

I of course hate for the reason any eldar player hates it. I'm playing a conceptually elite/psychic synergy army, notwithstanding any planned changes to my future dex, and randomness can really hamper any semblance of synergy.

Anpu42 wrote:Random Powers for Chaos makes sense in a weird/not so weird way.

Chaos =/= Random.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Chaos. That’s the big test.

Right now the new powers are optional because everyone can just pay for their regular ‘Codex’ powers, and then swap them for the rando-powers if they want. Once the new Chaos Codex hits (the first Chaos Codex since 3.5 – it’s been a long time coming!)...

But there was a Chaos Codex in the 4th edition!

I read somewhere that if a model has two codex powers (like a Broodlord) it can't just swap one of them for a random BRB power, it has to chose - either codex powers or BRB powers. Which sucks ofc, since most models seem to have at least one good power that you really want to keep (Hypnotic Gaze) and one that kind of suck (Aura of Despair).

( Btw, the plural for Carnifex is Carnifeces. That is funny, and true )

There was certainly a Codex released in 4th Ed that had "Chaos Space Marines" on the front cover, but one should never judge a book by its cover.

DarthOvious wrote:Didn't someone already state that the rulebook says that the GK codex takes precedent.

That doesn't appear to be the case. The rulebook actually says that all unusual force weapons are AP3. The GK dæmonhammer also says it's a thunderhammer, implying that it's AP2, but clearly there's an inconsistency here. I suspect the FAQ will resolve this issue.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Chaos. That’s the big test.

Right now the new powers are optional because everyone can just pay for their regular ‘Codex’ powers, and then swap them for the rando-powers if they want. Once the new Chaos Codex hits (the first Chaos Codex since 3.5 – it’s been a long time coming!) we’ll find out for sure if rando-powers are a new feature of every ‘Dex, or just an oddity added to the main rules.

The current codex came out in the year before 5th edition.. The 3.5 chaos codex was the hideously overpowered one with very customizable daemon princes and legions prior to this current one.

N.I.B. wrote:I read somewhere that if a model has two codex powers (like a Broodlord) it can't just swap one of them for a random BRB power, it has to chose - either codex powers or BRB powers.

Correct, though Grey Knight psykers get to keep Hammerhand.

Maybe Matt Ward wrote a better balanced book than anybody gave him credit for because it was written with 6th ed in mind. My personal guess is psyfleman dreadnoughts don't get sky fire, deamon hammer is ap2, and halberds are +2I ap3 power weapons not +2I power axes. GK will probably also gain access to storm talons, and if they take ig as their detachment a hydra and vendetta can be added for sky fire. If my guess is right then they will still be a though top tier army, and better balanced in 6th than they were in 5th.

warboss wrote:

Pyriel- wrote:

Yeah, I don't think I'll be shedding any tears for GKT of either variety. In 5e, the only weapon they needed was the halberd and it worked great for pretty much any concievable enemy other than the heaviest of vehicles with its I6, str5, ID rules combos. Heaven forbid a GK player would have to vary up their weapon selection a bit to account for vastly different enemy units instead of a one size kills all option... With the rumored changes, I'd still love it if my deathwing army could field 2 wound troop termies with FNP like the GK can do.

Yeah because now there will be oh so much variation with GK players taking hammers and um, hammers and some more hammers.
Besides, a DW player whining? Wow! You are the one who gets all the storm shields and 3++ saves, compared to these paladins are pretty much useless.

Why would you only take hammers when the rest of us are suggesting a varied load to deal with varied opponents? Last I checked, there's not a single codex out there in which the majority of units listed have a 2+ save that would render a GK army's standard weapon (a power weapon) as useless with a change to ap3. Since when is a 2+/5+ 2 wound unit with BETTER than marine stats, power weapons and storm bolters standard, psychic defense, options for str5 shooting and close combat at init6 ID when needed useless? In the VAST majority of cases (basically anything other than facing other terminators or meganobs), GK do better than other terminator builds due to their incredibly versatile loadouts. Please keep the massive exaggerations to a minimum as GK simply lost their one weapon kills all regardless of opponent option; now they're just forced to make real choices in their loadout like everyone else.

yeah innit, with the ap change i feel confident that my deathwing will be able to beat the bejeezus out of GK in combat now, as oposed to before where i would get groin punched

matphat wrote:Ork powers have always been random, why not everyone else?
=D

why not zoidberg?


making psychic powers fully randomized just crashes the game for the older codices. Although it is possible every 6th codex might gear up to do it.

schadenfreude wrote:Maybe Matt Ward wrote a better balanced book than anybody gave him credit for because it was written with 6th ed in mind.

Ding ding ding!

warboss wrote:The current codex came out in the year before 5th edition.. The 3.5 chaos codex was the hideously overpowered one with very customizable daemon princes and legions prior to this current one.

See, I can read the words you've written... they just don't make any sense. There's a Chaos Codex that came out between the one with all the legions and daemon upgrades and flavour... and now? I sure don't remember it. I know a book with "Chaos Space Marines" on the front came out, but that book had nothing to do with Chaos. It had no Legions, or Daemon Gifts or daemons - things that had been part of Chaos since the Realms of Chaos books, and was essentially Codex: Dark Angels w/Spikes - so I have no idea what that book was pretending to be. It certainly wasn't a Chaos Space Marine Codex, I can tell you that!

Not that I believe the dooooom! there. I don't think a couple fliers is really going to annihilate your whole force.

A couple?
8+?

In the VAST majority of cases (basically anything other than facing other terminators or meganobs), GK do better than other terminator builds due to their incredibly versatile loadouts

Mmm sure. The incredible GK 6ed advantages and insane flexibility of their builds...against zooming long range fliers you can build your GK army with 24´range OR you can vary the build using um, 24´range. Or you can switch the versatile loadouts for eh, 24´range.

Really, the best equipped force in the imperium of man have less variety to handle various opponents and the upcoming croissant spam then any other poor unknown founding chapter that has normal terminators with 36 and 48´ reach and storm shields that can make puree of everything GK. I´m sure someone forgot to include the humble storm shield when gearing the best equipped force in the Imperium that even have their own forge world.



Now I need to buy GW bunker buildings by the bucketload and water down the GK army with...buildings...to be able to compete.

Fluff my a**.

A quick thought from an Eldar player, can any fellow Eldar player give me reasons to take Banshees as I just bought 2 new full squads and I'm feeling a bit frustrated, I hope their power weapons will be revisited in the FAQ...

Fetterkey wrote:

DarthOvious wrote:Didn't someone already state that the rulebook says that the GK codex takes precedent.

That doesn't appear to be the case. The rulebook actually says that all unusual force weapons are AP3. The GK dæmonhammer also says it's a thunderhammer, implying that it's AP2, but clearly there's an inconsistency here. I suspect the FAQ will resolve this issue.

I guess the FAQ will need to clear it up. I agree that some players will make a deal out of it but I think its still pretty much stating that daemonhammers are supposed to work like thunderhammers. The entry does say the words "A Nemesis Daemon hammer uses the rules for thunder hammers (see Warhammer 40,000 rulebook). Like I said above we get that in addition to the force weapon rules. So essentially we get both rules together and thus we get the AP3 and the AP2 from both stats, thus the AP2 trumping the AP3 profile.

i wonder if Hammer of Wrath interacts positively with some USRs, like the new Preferred Enemy. it'd be nice to be able to reroll that wound!

Also, could someone tell me how a power klaw differs from a power fist?

Fetterkey wrote:

DarthOvious wrote:Didn't someone already state that the rulebook says that the GK codex takes precedent.

That doesn't appear to be the case. The rulebook actually says that all unusual force weapons are AP3. The GK dæmonhammer also says it's a thunderhammer, implying that it's AP2, but clearly there's an inconsistency here. I suspect the FAQ will resolve this issue.

What inconsistency, thunderhammers are AP2, deamonhammer use the rules for thunderhammer and there own rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:Also, could someone tell me how a power klaw differs from a power fist?

The name and look.

Here's a dumb question - do Chainfists still get 2D6 pen?

Noir wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:

DarthOvious wrote:Didn't someone already state that the rulebook says that the GK codex takes precedent.

That doesn't appear to be the case. The rulebook actually says that all unusual force weapons are AP3. The GK dæmonhammer also says it's a thunderhammer, implying that it's AP2, but clearly there's an inconsistency here. I suspect the FAQ will resolve this issue.

What inconsistency, thunderhammers are AP2, deamonhammer use the rules for thunderhammer and there own rules.

yeah seems simple enough to me, apply both rules if able is always better than ignore one in favor of the other where no consensus is achieved, so in my mind its both ap2 and 3, end result is the same, otherwise it leads to stuff like it cant shake vehicles.. because you know... its not actually a thunder hammer... is a type of hammer that uses the same rules... and that is a bit silly

What is the new fluff is my question and my only concern.
Is the story actually FINALLY moving?
Or are they still stuck on grim darkness of 41st millenia.
Doesn't really sound grimdark.
Are there any new characters that we will actually like?

Noir wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:Also, could someone tell me how a power klaw differs from a power fist?

The name and look.

Seriously, that's it?
Then why bother giving it it's own section when the ork codex already does that and says it's a power fist?

jgehunter wrote:A quick thought from an Eldar player, can any fellow Eldar player give me reasons to take Banshees as I just bought 2 new full squads and I'm feeling a bit frustrated, I hope their power weapons will be revisited in the FAQ...

TH/SS termies will make 2+ instead of 3+ saves. Honestly people complaing about termies being too hard to kill in new edition probably didn't play against them that much in 5th. Just shoot them up.

As far as banshees you can always throw a farseer with doom and fortune on them to get some needed re-roll to wound and re-roll armor.cover saves. They may be more useful with some allied assault transports, but all 6th ed usefulness is just conjecture. I have seen them teamed up with Jain-Zar and a seperate seer council to be a pretty mean tag team.

Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Noir wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:Also, could someone tell me how a power klaw differs from a power fist?

The name and look.

Seriously, that's it?
Then why bother giving it it's own section when the ork codex already does that and says it's a power fist?

Because some Ork players are easily Konfused

tetrisphreak wrote:

Goresaw wrote:... it looks like the much touted AP to CC weapons is nothing but another nerf to CC. Power weapons lost their power, and everything else is still AP useless. There isn't a font large enough to express the magnitude and the sadness of my /sigh. Why do you hate CC armies Gw? Do you just want me to debase my orks and de on squares?

And the wound allocation brings up more shenanigans. Say I fire 16 poison shots and two blasters into a wolfguard squad with one terminal and the rest in power armor. Does the terminal get to eat the poison first (rolling one dice at a time... /sigh)? Or do I get lucky and he eats.the blasters first so I can resolve my small arms fire against the 3 ups?

Why didn't you position yourself so that you were closer to the 3+ models? Dark Eldar are known for great speed and maneuverability. Failing to do so makes you a bad player, actually. Not bad rules.

Exactly. Put your termi out front? Look, I fire my plasma and only my plasma now, so you cant put that wound on a normal guy.

While I still have to see it in practice, I think this is really going to open up a whole new game of positioning and tactics....ironically, reminds me of some of the best aspects of BFG and AI.

Pyriel- wrote:Mmm sure. The incredible GK 6ed advantages and insane flexibility of their builds...against zooming long range fliers you can build your GK army with 24´range OR you can vary the build using um, 24´range. Or you can switch the versatile loadouts for eh, 24´range.

You said that GKT including paladins were practically useless compared with TH/SS terminators with the new edition. How are TH/SS termies better than GK with their OPTION of taking TH at taking out those same fliers? At least GK have the OPTION of taking anti-armor weapons at the same time unlike termie assault squads. The 24" you're complaining about is still 24" better than the ZERO standard termie assault squads (that you complained about earlier) get in ranged combat... yet your GKT are "pretty much useless". They're even better than tactical terminators as your GK paladins can take two heavies per 5 guys instead of their 1 per 5 as well as the GK paladins having the option to take str5 bolters for side/rear shots. I'm sorry that the single piece of wargear that allowed GKs to ignore EVERYONE'S armor now only works against everything BUT the strongest and LEAST common save you'll find on the tabletop. Having to actually make a choice in how you upgrade models is a good thing overall to the game's balance compared with the one size kills all the GKT currently have. Take consolation in the fact that the units in question have enjoyed over a year of dominion over the tabletop.

Anpu42 wrote:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Noir wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:Also, could someone tell me how a power klaw differs from a power fist?

The name and look.

Seriously, that's it?
Then why bother giving it it's own section when the ork codex already does that and says it's a power fist?

Because some Ork players are easily Konfused

I think it's more confusing to have it like 6th Ed, not to meantion a waste of paper space

Save the trees! Greener world!

Anpu42 wrote:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Noir wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:Also, could someone tell me how a power klaw differs from a power fist?

The name and look.

Seriously, that's it?
Then why bother giving it it's own section when the ork codex already does that and says it's a power fist?

Because some Ork players are easily Konfused

ok this is really really simple

if your book says they are treated as power fists... they are power fists, so whatever rules PF get, Klaws get, so its ap2 and dub str

Question, has anyone checked how do vehicle squadrons work?, how are glancing hits distributed?. If incoming fire is received closest to farthest, then this gives them an unfair advantage as you could "Rotate" which vehicle receives the damage and the others can not be targeted if the target is the squadron as a whole. More resilient tanks like the ruses got a huge boost.

Say you take 3 lemans what ever, you can pretty much guarantee AV14, which is not easy to glance (save eldar), take 1 glancing, rotate, and so on, you would need to put (assuming 3 HP) 6 glancing hits on AV14 before the next one would kill the tank. Now glancing does nothing, thats a bit too much if you ask me... I pray to god thy had the good judgment of not allowing the squad to split fire...

From B&C, apologies if covered, haven't seen it

'I just found a new USR called It will not die;

At the end of each friendly turn, roll a D6 for each model with this special rule that has less than its starting number of Wounds or Hull Points, but has not been removed as a casualty or destroyed. On a roll of 5+, that model regains a Wound or Hull Point.'

Man, I sure hope those Flakk Missiles are real.

That'll be magical.

Davylove21 wrote:I just found a new USR called It will not die;

At the end of each friendly turn, roll a D6 for each model with this special rule that has less than its starting number of Wounds or Hull Points, but has not been removed as a casualty or destroyed. On a roll of 5+, that model regains a Wound or Hull Point.

So it's Regenerate with a fancy name?

*shrugs* Aiight. Nothing wrong with that I 'spose.

Noir wrote:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:Also, could someone tell me how a power klaw differs from a power fist?

The name and look.

Not necessarily, unless you're reading the book right now. The page about the force weapons that someone photographed earlier in the thread left off with the entry for power klaws, specifically mentioning their differences from power fists. Whether its just fluff or the beginning of the explanation for different rules is on the next page, which was not photographed.

jgehunter wrote:A quick thought from an Eldar player, can any fellow Eldar player give me reasons to take Banshees as I just bought 2 new full squads and I'm feeling a bit frustrated, I hope their power weapons will be revisited in the FAQ...

Holy hell. How come everybody is freaking out about going from ignoring all armor to AP3?

When I built my lists I was usually trying to think of ways to make sure I could put the kabosh to marines, not terminators. This applied to both my Eldar and my GK lists. Sure Draigowing changed that a little bit but I would rather use the tactics and wargear in my all-comers lists and deal with the TEQ threat best I could. I never thought of the need to allocate a % of my FoC to only handling terminators.

@jgehunter,

First thing you need to do is stop believing everyone throwing around the word "useless". 21 attacks at WS5 will still murder MEQ. Even GK's will strike after you thanks to your Banshee Mask. Terminators will be more difficult, but Eldar have very reliable access to powers from the new books that make enemies re-roll successful armor saves. If you bought two squads run Eldrad with one and a generic Farseer with the other. Keep Doom and Fortune with the Generic and give Eldrad 5 powers from the chart. Move in concert. Take Triskelles if you are REALLY worried about Terminator Armor. That's 3 BS 4 AP2 shots into the termies, and if you keep your squads together you can use two of them on one doomed unit.

Besides, with Melta being less critical 3x5 squads of Fire Dragons aren't auto-take anymore. Run two squads of Banshees since you just bought them and 1 squad of FD's for AV 14 or 13 targets that MUST die and that you cannot glance to death with the myriad of STR6 options in our codex.

@Anyone,

Any word about whether or not IA and forgeworld is in? I'd love to use some of those new eldar units!

Davylove21 wrote:From B&C, apologies if covered, haven't seen it

'I just found a new USR called It will not die;

At the end of each friendly turn, roll a D6 for each model with this special rule that has less than its starting number of Wounds or Hull Points, but has not been removed as a casualty or destroyed. On a roll of 5+, that model regains a Wound or Hull Point.'

I smell something nurgly in the works.....

xxvaderxx wrote:Question, has anyone checked how do vehicle squadrons work?, how are glancing hits distributed?. If incoming fire is received closest to farthest, then this gives them an unfair advantage as you could "Rotate" which vehicle receives the damage and the others can not be targeted if the target is the squadron as a whole. More resilient tanks like the ruses got a huge boost.

Say you take 3 lemans what ever, you can pretty much guarantee AV14, which is not easy to glance (save eldar AND NECRONS ), take 1 glancing, rotate, and so on, you would need to put (assuming 3 HP) 6 glancing hits on AV14 before the next one would kill the tank. Now glancing does nothing, thats a bit too much if you ask me... I pray to god thy had the good judgment of not allowing the squad to split fire...

Fixed that for you


And if that USR is true Davylove21 then there are going to be some annoying units in the near future

Its actually quite funny to see some people complaining about grey knights losing some power, lol seriously? grey knights are insanely good right now, 6th is going to actually balance them it seems. As someone already said, just because theyre not going to facerape everything they touch now does not mean theyre not worth taking, it means theyre actually balanced! shockhorror!

Davylove21 wrote:From B&C, apologies if covered, haven't seen it

'I just found a new USR called It will not die;

At the end of each friendly turn, roll a D6 for each model with this special rule that has less than its starting number of Wounds or Hull Points, but has not been removed as a casualty or destroyed. On a roll of 5+, that model regains a Wound or Hull Point.'

That so sounds like Living Metal in action. Here's hoping for FAQ.

Bobug wrote:Its actually quite funny to see some people complaining about grey knights losing some power, lol seriously? grey knights are insanely good right now, 6th is going to actually balance them it seems. As someone already said, just because theyre not going to facerape everything they touch now does not mean theyre not worth taking, it means theyre actually balanced! shockhorror!

OP people love being OP


@Nightbringer's Chosen

It does, doesn't it! Let's hope for the best...

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:

Davylove21 wrote:From B&C, apologies if covered, haven't seen it

'I just found a new USR called It will not die;

At the end of each friendly turn, roll a D6 for each model with this special rule that has less than its starting number of Wounds or Hull Points, but has not been removed as a casualty or destroyed. On a roll of 5+, that model regains a Wound or Hull Point.'

That so sounds like Living Metal in action. Here's hoping for FAQ.

Living metal AND land raiders... i mean... land raiders lol

Formosa wrote:

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:

Davylove21 wrote:From B&C, apologies if covered, haven't seen it

'I just found a new USR called It will not die;

At the end of each friendly turn, roll a D6 for each model with this special rule that has less than its starting number of Wounds or Hull Points, but has not been removed as a casualty or destroyed. On a roll of 5+, that model regains a Wound or Hull Point.'

That so sounds like Living Metal in action. Here's hoping for FAQ.

Living metal AND land raiders... i mean... land raiders lol

That would be the only thing keeping LRs viable, the soak up so many points that your opponent will be able to glance them to death.

xxvaderxx wrote:

Formosa wrote:

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:

Davylove21 wrote:From B&C, apologies if covered, haven't seen it

'I just found a new USR called It will not die;

At the end of each friendly turn, roll a D6 for each model with this special rule that has less than its starting number of Wounds or Hull Points, but has not been removed as a casualty or destroyed. On a roll of 5+, that model regains a Wound or Hull Point.'

That so sounds like Living Metal in action. Here's hoping for FAQ.

Living metal AND land raiders... i mean... land raiders lol

That would be the only thing keeping LRs viable, the soak up so many points that your opponent will be able to glance them to death.

too true, but i will still rock 3 of em at 1500 pts lol

Just listened to the Signals from the Frontline podcast on Frontline Gaming and basically everyone needs to listen to it!
The first 12 minutes is basically a recap of WargamesCon, but the final 6 minutes are teasers for 40k that according to the guys doing the podcast (who were rather doomsayers for 6th) when it's out it will be AWESOME! They didn't want to go into specifics, but if any of it is true, it will be amazing! Go and listen, you won't regret it

H.B.M.C. wrote:Here's a dumb question - do Chainfists still get 2D6 pen?

AP1. Haven't seen anything to suggest they get the extra pen.

You know what'll really be hilarious? Pretty much every army will take a fortification until their codex comes out and adds Skyfire units. That means a large number of tournament battles will play out between two "headquarters" stationed a few hundred feet from each other.


I really hope they FAQ the Skyray into having Skyfire. The model was originally Forgeworld's anti-air variant, and fortifications are an even worse violation of Tau fluff than Space Marine allies.

Davylove21 wrote:From B&C, apologies if covered, haven't seen it

'I just found a new USR called It will not die;

At the end of each friendly turn, roll a D6 for each model with this special rule that has less than its starting number of Wounds or Hull Points, but has not been removed as a casualty or destroyed. On a roll of 5+, that model regains a Wound or Hull Point.'

Oooh, cool.

I wonder if this could possibly overwrite Regeneration in the Tyranid codex.

RogueRegault wrote:You know what'll really be hilarious? Pretty much every army will take a fortification until their codex comes out and adds Skyfire units. That means a large number of tournament battles will play out between two "headquarters" stationed a few hundred feet from each other.

But on the bright side there will be terrain on the table, something a lot of tourmanets struggle with. I'll take that silver lining any day.

RogueRegault wrote:You know what'll really be hilarious? Pretty much every army will take a fortification until their codex comes out and adds Skyfire units. That means a large number of tournament battles will play out between two "headquarters" stationed a few hundred feet from each other.

Formosa wrote:

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:

Davylove21 wrote:From B&C, apologies if covered, haven't seen it

'I just found a new USR called It will not die;

At the end of each friendly turn, roll a D6 for each model with this special rule that has less than its starting number of Wounds or Hull Points, but has not been removed as a casualty or destroyed. On a roll of 5+, that model regains a Wound or Hull Point.'

That so sounds like Living Metal in action. Here's hoping for FAQ.

Living metal AND land raiders... i mean... land raiders lol

YA F*CK YA! MY 3 LRS LOVE IT! I sure hope this is true and applies to my LRs.

So, I try to keep up, but... too many pages.

Any news on digital release? Conjecture? Will it be available Saturday and they just won't have told anyone in advance?

RogueRegault wrote:Pretty much every army will take a fortification until their codex comes out and adds Skyfire units.

No, not pretty much every army. Pretty much no army is closer to the truth. A Psyrifleman with BS1 still hits 1.22 times per turn, causing 0.6 penetrating hits and 0.2 glancing hits. Two Psyriflemen stand a reasonable chance of destroying a flyer. Three Psyriflemen will destroy a flyer. That's with BS1. People are talking in such extremes about this subject. If their units don't have a ton of access to skyfire, apparently they can't kill flyers at all and they can just pack it up and quit the game, and if they get access to skyfire, flyers are absolutely useless and noone will use them at all.

Pyriel- wrote:

Not that I believe the dooooom! there. I don't think a couple fliers is really going to annihilate your whole force.

A couple?
8+?

Do you know what the word hyperbole means? At this point I suspect you are just being willfully obstinate. I'd suggest getting some games in with the new system before shedding tears about how underpowered GK are...

So this may sound a bit doom and gloom, but to say standard power weapons ap3 is sorry to say bs, it now means i have 7 weapons at range and 5 in cc that can actually force invs on my friends 42, man Deathwing army. (que slow sarcastic clap). Even if i take into account all the rest of my army it still looks really bleak. P.s it now means my 170pt Captain can't really hurt anything in +2 armour.

Altruizine wrote:

RogueRegault wrote:You know what'll really be hilarious? Pretty much every army will take a fortification until their codex comes out and adds Skyfire units. That means a large number of tournament battles will play out between two "headquarters" stationed a few hundred feet from each other.

It's not unheard of for multiple fortifications being built close enough to each other that they can provide mutual defense. If an attack captures 1, but loses were high the attacker will often retreat into the captured fortification. I'm ok with it, static war is pretty grimdark

Looking forward to the new rules; sure something's will get worse, some will get better. Don't become that person who complains because there coffee wasn't the exact temperature they wanted...

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Davylove21 wrote:I just found a new USR called It will not die;

At the end of each friendly turn, roll a D6 for each model with this special rule that has less than its starting number of Wounds or Hull Points, but has not been removed as a casualty or destroyed. On a roll of 5+, that model regains a Wound or Hull Point.

So it's Regenerate with a fancy name?

*shrugs* Aiight. Nothing wrong with that I 'spose.

Oh, please please puh-leeease let Living Metal also include this USR within it. Seriously. The Monolith needs some help here.

Therion wrote:No, not pretty much every army. Pretty much no army is closer to the truth.

There might be other reasons to take fortifications besides AA mounts.

Therion wrote:

RogueRegault wrote:Pretty much every army will take a fortification until their codex comes out and adds Skyfire units.

No, not pretty much every army. Pretty much no army is closer to the truth. A Psyrifleman with BS1 still hits 1.22 times per turn, causing 0.6 penetrating hits and 0.2 glancing hits. Two Psyriflemen stand a reasonable chance of destroying a flyer. Three Psyriflemen will destroy a flyer. That's with BS1. People are talking in such extremes about this subject. If their units don't have a ton of access to skyfire, apparently they can't kill flyers at all and they can just pack it up and quit the game, and if they get access to skyfire, flyers are absolutely useless and noone will use them at all.

And orcs have lootas. I'm looking at only getting 1/2 my normal hits? Don't mind. When you're used to BS2, BS1 isn't a big deal. Weight of fire will bring stuff down.

Hmmmm, 3 squads of lootas in a fortress of redemption? With a KFF? Hmmm.......


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mikhaila wrote:

Therion wrote:

RogueRegault wrote:Pretty much every army will take a fortification until their codex comes out and adds Skyfire units.

No, not pretty much every army. Pretty much no army is closer to the truth. A Psyrifleman with BS1 still hits 1.22 times per turn, causing 0.6 penetrating hits and 0.2 glancing hits. Two Psyriflemen stand a reasonable chance of destroying a flyer. Three Psyriflemen will destroy a flyer. That's with BS1. People are talking in such extremes about this subject. If their units don't have a ton of access to skyfire, apparently they can't kill flyers at all and they can just pack it up and quit the game, and if they get access to skyfire, flyers are absolutely useless and noone will use them at all.

And orcs have lootas. I'm looking at only getting 1/2 my normal hits? Don't mind. When you're used to BS2, BS1 isn't a big deal. Weight of fire will bring stuff down.

Hmmmm, 3 squads of lootas in a fortress of redemption? With a KFF? Hmmm.......

oh, and backed up by my new IG 'advisors' with their 3 spiffy hydras. So much AA now for orkies

H.B.M.C. wrote:

RogueRegault wrote:You know what'll really be hilarious? Pretty much every army will take a fortification until their codex comes out and adds Skyfire units. That means a large number of tournament battles will play out between two "headquarters" stationed a few hundred feet from each other.

But on the bright side there will be terrain on the table, something a lot of tourmanets struggle with. I'll take that silver lining any day.

Seriously this. Adding terrain to army selection is a brilliant move because it prevents armies-- especially non-vehicle heavy armies-- from being screwed if they end up on a Warhammer Fantasy-style board with no terrain.

I love the idea of being able to deploy a shield line along with my stealth/sniper, but I really don't think the game is going to turn into mandatory fortresses in every deployment.

I know I won't with my 'crons

But I prob will with my orks, using ork baricades, with the odd aegis piece

Seriously this. Adding terrain to army selection is a brilliant move because it prevents armies-- especially non-vehicle heavy armies-- from being screwed if they end up on a Warhammer Fantasy-style board with no terrain.

Not that I wouldn't agree but please keep in mind it costs points. You'll either gamble that you get the tabletop you want for free, or you pay a pretty hefty amount of points to get the cover saves with you to every game. The rumour was that the Aegis Defence line costs something like 90 points, and the Bastion over 200 points if I recall correctly. Everyone can do the math for their own army to see if its worth it or even close.

Fortress of Redemption was said to cost 220. I doubt the Bastion would only be 20 points less.

krittoris on BoLS wrote:skyshield landing pad - 75 points
eagies defence lines - 50 points + weapons
imperial bastion - 75 points + weapons
fortress of redemption - 220 points + weapons

also

BUILDING DAMAGE TABLE (D6 EFFECT)

1 - building breached it suffers -1 to armour on all facings.
2 - tremor - the building shudders making units inside only able to sanp fire for the following turn, additionally if they try to disembark from the building they may only disembark 3 inches rather then the normal 6.
3- partial collapse - the unit suffers d6 s6 ap- hits with no cover saves allowed.
4- structural collapse - same effect as above except 2d6 hits instead of just 1d6
5- catastrophice breach - reduce the building armour value by d3 on all sides
6 - the unit takes 4d6 s6 ap- hits, has to make an emergency disembark, if the unit cannot disembark it is destroyed. the building is classed as a ruin.
7- the building is utterly destroyed, the unit inside suffer 4d6 s6 hits with no ap, they then must emergency disembark as above, if they cant they die ect. and the building is treated as impassable terrain for the rest of the game, also any unit within d6 suffers s4 ap- hits, the amount of hits is how many models are in the unit that is hit 'OUCH'

H.B.M.C. wrote:Fortress of Redemption was said to cost 220. I doubt the Bastion would only be 20 points less.

I mistook the Bastion for the Fortress then. Either way, the point remains. The Aegis Defence Line for example would clearly be good for Necron Warriors with just 4+ armour saves. They'd get 5+ cover from it which improves to 4+ or even 3+ in the night, but is it worth more than 5 additional Necron Warriors and the firepower, wounds and scoring models they bring? That remains to be seen. I naturally hope that the points cost is balanced so that taking and not taking fortifications are both equally competitive decisions.

skyshield landing pad - 75 points

Was this the one that allows you to re-roll reserves or something to that direction? What else does it do? That's the one I'm interested in. Orikan the Diviner costs 165 points and doesn't bring much more than that reserve ability

I presume buildings don't have Hull Points?

@Anyone,

Any word about whether or not IA and forgeworld is in? I'd love to use some of those new eldar units!

@Anyone... anything about this???

What about that "40000" stamp of approval seen in IA:2nd ed????? Does it make an appearance in the new rulebook?

IA and Forge World should be allowed, GW may be naive, but they aren't stupid

H.B.M.C. wrote:I presume buildings don't have Hull Points?

Says that they do in the heresy online rumor roundup, but who knows, right?

Altruizine wrote:

RogueRegault wrote:You know what'll really be hilarious? Pretty much every army will take a fortification until their codex comes out and adds Skyfire units. That means a large number of tournament battles will play out between two "headquarters" stationed a few hundred feet from each other.

Great use of the VT's BS4 and he will give the whole fortress a 5+ cover . All in all kinda disturbing.

Therion wrote:Was this the one that allows you to re-roll reserves or something to that direction? What else does it do? That's the one I'm interested in. Orikan the Diviner costs 165 points and doesn't bring much more than that reserve ability

H.B.M.C. wrote:I presume buildings don't have Hull Points?

That was all the info on buildings I saw in the thread.

Therion wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Fortress of Redemption was said to cost 220. I doubt the Bastion would only be 20 points less.

I mistook the Bastion for the Fortress then. Either way, the point remains. The Aegis Defence Line for example would clearly be good for Necron Warriors with just 4+ armour saves. They'd get 5+ cover from it which improves to 4+ or even 3+ in the night, but is it worth more than 5 additional Necron Warriors and the firepower, wounds and scoring models they bring? That remains to be seen. I naturally hope that the points cost is balanced so that taking and not taking fortifications are both equally competitive decisions.

skyshield landing pad - 75 points

Was this the one that allows you to re-roll reserves or something to that direction? What else does it do? That's the one I'm interested in. Orikan the Diviner costs 165 points and doesn't bring much more than that reserve ability

Assuming it still has the Planet Strike rules, they Sky sheild can provide an 3 or 4++ save in the shield mode.

I have the rulebook if you want ask to ask questions I will attempt to answer them for you.

Proof

http://photobucket.com/warhammer4sale

And that is my wife watching Sister Wives not me!

primalexile wrote:I have the rulebook if you want ask to ask questions I will attempt to answer them for you.

Proof

http://photobucket.com/warhammer4sale

And that is my wife watching Sister Wives not me!

I thought the rulebook comes out Saturday?

1) Can you confirm or deny missile launchers having a form of Skyfire.

2) Weapon options and costs for the fortifications.

3) Clarify different vehicle movement and modes. I've seen a lot of conflicting info on this.

I appreciate anything you can get us

primalexile wrote:I have the rulebook if you want ask to ask questions I will attempt to answer them for you.

1) Can Flyers be hit by blasts/templates?

2) Do missile launchers have a new fire mode that is Strength 7 AP 4 Skyfire?

3) Do allied units take up slots in your "main" Force Organization chart?

barnowl wrote:
Assuming it still has the Planet Strike rules, they Sky sheild can provide an 3 or 4++ save in the shield mode.

It also allowed, when the walls are down, that any skimmer can disembark troops on the shield, whatever distance the skimmer had moved.

Shield walls could be raised-lowered by any undisputed unit on it.

1. Are we certain that No Retreat wounds are completely gone? I'm sorry for asking this, but this is a big deal for me.

2. How do IC's join units? Do they join automatically if within 2" or do they have a choice of the units they join (and don't join)?

Therion wrote:Says that they do in the heresy online rumor roundup, but who knows, right?

Uugh...

I could live with Hull Points if they were 3-4 for the smaller vehicles, and 5-6 for the bigger ones (and, like, 10 for Super-Heavies), but it’d be better if they were called “Ablative Armour” and simply stopped glancing hits from causing any damage until all the points were eroded away. Then it could be an upgrade in each Codex with points values assigned to it, rather than just something that adds more bookkeeping to the game whilst simultaneously making vehicles easier to kill.

And having them on buildings. I glanced the side of something made of solid rockcrete and plaststeel... and suddenly it falls over? No...

I've just realised I'm only buying the full version for the fluff, because if I didn't care about fluff I'd just wait till September...

Same boat as me really, Kingsley.

speaking of the fluff, i'm really interested to see the section on Abhumans, as I only know of Beastmen, Ogryns, Ratlings & Squats

I haven't read through the last 15-20 pages, and I don't know if this has been brought up, or even asked.

But the Reserve Rule now states these things:
Units always arrive on a 3+ from turn 2 onwards.
Apart from units that MUST start in reserve (such as drop pods / daemons) You can only keep HALF your army in reserve.
Furthermore, units coming in from reserve cannot declare a charge.

To me, this seems bad.
No more Null-Deployment, and it basically cripples Webway Portals.

Fetterkey wrote:

primalexile wrote:I have the rulebook if you want ask to ask questions I will attempt to answer them for you.

1) Can Flyers be hit by blasts/templates?

2) Do missile launchers have a new fire mode that is Strength 7 AP 4 Skyfire?

3) Do allied units take up slots in your "main" Force Organization chart?

We already know the answer to #1... it is "not if they are zooming"

I would love to know the answers to the other questions though

H.B.M.C. wrote:I glanced the side of something made of solid rockcrete and plaststeel... and suddenly it falls over? No...

Can't wait to see something lame like a single 25 point Cryptek with Voltaic Staff destroying the Fortress of Redemption or some other expensive pile of bricks in one volley

Ovion wrote:I haven't read through the last 15-20 pages, and I don't know if this has been brought up, or even asked.

But the Reserve Rule now states these things:
Units always arrive on a 3+ from turn 2 onwards.
Apart from units that MUST start in reserve (such as drop pods / daemons) You can only keep HALF your army in reserve.
Furthermore, units coming in from reserve cannot declare a charge.

To me, this seems bad.
No more Null-Deployment, and it basically cripples Webway Portals.

Ouch, yeah, me no likey that. It's just bad on a lot of levels if true.

spacewolf407 wrote:

primalexile wrote:I have the rulebook if you want ask to ask questions I will attempt to answer them for you.

Proof

http://photobucket.com/warhammer4sale

And that is my wife watching Sister Wives not me!

I thought the rulebook comes out Saturday?

My FLGS received their shipment today and started selling the BRB already. Quite the time for me to be on a business trip until Friday...

Maelstrom808 wrote:1) Can you confirm or deny missile launchers having a form of Skyfire.

2) Weapon options and costs for the fortifications.

3) Clarify different vehicle movement and modes. I've seen a lot of conflicting info on this.

I appreciate anything you can get us

1 - Missle Launchers with Flakk missle have 48" S7 AP4 Heavy 1, Skyfire

2) I will post 1 for you. I would rather take pictures but unsure if GW will come after me even though I bought the copy legitemetlly

Aegis Defence Lines - 50 points
- Comms Relay 20 points
- Gun Emplacement with Icarus lascannon 35 points
- Gun Emplacement with Quad-gun 50 Points

Icarus 96" S9 AP2 Heavy, 1, Interceptor, Skyfire
Quad-gun 48" S7 AP4 Heavy 4 INterceptor Twin Linked SKyfire

3) Get more specific with vehicles please.

Stationary = full firepower
up to 6" move is considered "Combat Speed" = fire a single weapon using full Ballistic Skill, the vehicle can also fire snap shots with other weapons. However it can not fire any weapon that cannot be fired as Snap Shots
6 - 12" is cruising speed and can only make snap shots



ts

Mohoc wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:

primalexile wrote:I have the rulebook if you want ask to ask questions I will attempt to answer them for you.

1) Can Flyers be hit by blasts/templates?

2) Do missile launchers have a new fire mode that is Strength 7 AP 4 Skyfire?

3) Do allied units take up slots in your "main" Force Organization chart?

We already know the answer to #1... it is "not if they are zooming"

I would love to know the answers to the other questions though

No. 3 was confirmed in WD as being a seperate FOC slot seperate
ie Main force is 2 HQ, 3 Elites, 6 Troops, 3 Fast Attack, 3 Heavy Support
Allies is 1 HQ, 1 Elite, 1 or 2 Troops, 1 Fast Attack, 1 Heavy Support

Compolsory 1 HQ, 2 Troops for main, if you take allies Compolsory 1 HQ, 1 Troop