I wonder just how expensive is it to buy DP9 stuff currently from anywhere outside of North America, what with the insane increase in shipping costs and all.

Back in 2010, when Heavy Gear started (and quickly stopped) gaining some sembalance of traction over here, a lot of people initially interested were put off by prices - and that was during the time when it was almost certainly either you play GW or you play nothing, so high prices for anything model related were a given. I can only speculate this place is not the only one with similar opinion.

 SgtBANZAI wrote:
Back in 2010, when Heavy Gear started (and quickly stopped) gaining some sembalance of traction over here, a lot of people initially interested were put off by prices - and that was during the time when it was almost certainly either you play GW or you play nothing, so high prices for anything model related were a given. I can only speculate this place is not the only one with similar opinion.

DP9 prices have always given GW a run for their money, that's not new. I was thinking exclusively in terms of "shipping + customs charges on top of GW-level prices".

Back then it basically doubled the original price, nowadays I can only wonder... and probably, be horrified.

In Panama shipping from the USA is still quite cheap thankfully. Something good for being part of their backyard.

Costs of miniatures on the other hand, not just Heavy Gear, are something else because of the cost of living vs average income of the average wargamer. But still affordable.

There is a pair of hobby stores, both have products at a bit of a mark up for all board, RPG and wargames but still affordable, and purchasing direct from USA is cheaper. People buy from the stores because they like to cooperate with the local business and because you don't have to wait for shipping.

Well, good to hear not everyone gets shafted, at least

 Albertorius wrote:
I wonder just how expensive is it to buy DP9 stuff currently from anywhere outside of North America, what with the insane increase in shipping costs and all.

To the point where it is not economicly worth it, shipping expenses and tax will allways ruin it.

You pay 125 USD for the 2p starter, then you need to pay 42USD for postal airmail shipping according to their site info if that is even a current price (if fedex or ups option had existed you could change that to 60-80 USD) then since there is no VAT you have to pay import tax on collection, so that means for my country prolly about 50-70 USD. (and had there still been VAT included in the price, i would still need to pay some form of customs tax)

And ofc there is the shipping time that for example my my country, would be 4-5 weeks.

So that is basicly pay for two 2p starter sets, recive only one. That is why buying minis that is not allready in a european or scandenavia country (and uk is no longer part of EU as everyone should know by now) is NOT worth it as a private person living in EU or scandenavia.

If a mini game/brand wants to make an entrance into EU, they either need a product EU destribution hub, local shop importers or sell STL print files of their minis.

Sounds about right, yeah

OTOH, if DP9 did release decent stl files for HG or JC, I'd probably buy them all.

 Albertorius wrote:
Sounds about right, yeah

OTOH, if DP9 did release decent stl files for HG or JC, I'd probably buy them all.

As would i. but since they dont, nor have a eu destribution hub, it is a game that is practicly unavalible outside of u.s. It is sad, but that is the reality.

 FrozenDwarf wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Sounds about right, yeah

OTOH, if DP9 did release decent stl files for HG or JC, I'd probably buy them all.

As would i. but since they dont, nor have a eu destribution hub, it is a game that is practicly unavalible outside of u.s. It is sad, but that is the reality.

Agreed on all accounts.

I wonder how much they'd be willing to offer licensing to print them in Europe for that purpose of distribution.

 Charistoph wrote:
I wonder how much they'd be willing to offer licensing to print them in Europe for that purpose of distribution.

Most designers offer "merchant" buy levels for that.

Finished a batch of elite/vet/special forces gears for my South army. Tons of pics, so I put them in a blog post. https://yadzcb.friestman.net/hgb-southern-specops.html

Looks good thanks for sharing.

Nicely done. I like the stealth squad camo!

So... it's been what, half a year or something, since the Pod started selling Gear Krieg STL files.

Do they plan on selling HG files at some point? Because, again, I would buy HG STL files, but there's no way in hell I would buy physical stuff from their store, with current shipping costs. No way in hell.

 Albertorius wrote:
So, someone forwarded me this:

https://store.dp9.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=140

It seems DP9 has started selling 3d files, which is a move I fully endorse. As soon as they sell Heavy Gear stuff, I will buy it.

That said, I think this would be the perfect opportunity for them to address their horrible non-USA distribution issues. Now they have decided to go this route, they should embrace it and sell files for private hobbyists like me, but also license the commercial use of the files so that printers can produce minis locally and sell them.

That could certainly help with that.

EDITED TO ADD: Well, I will buy them except if they are the 3d models from the KS, particularly the North/South ones, because those were 1) made for the limitations they had for plastic sprue production, and 2) utterly horrible.

Just a new heads up to DP9, now that they seem to be being dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century: I will buy HG stls if you sell them.

I clicked the link and it had zero HG files available under the appropriate category.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This may be old news to some but it appears like there is more news on the HG front. I haven't looked at their stuff this year but it looks like they added redone classic 1e/2e RPG books up on drivthrurpg as well. They're not just bootleg quality scans of the paper products like for the past twenty years but apparently redone from the original files. I was able to totally zoom in on the individual graphics to a level previously that would have been a mess. The detail on some of my favorite art is ridiculously good now.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/429144/Heavy-Gear-Revitalized--Field-Guide-North-1?src=newest

p.s. Damn, you Albertorius. Damn you to hell, you dirty skinkin' ape! You made me look at HG again... again!

Problem with those new pdfs is that if you bought their old gakky scanned pdfs, you don't get to get those updated unless you buy them all again.

Which is a really gakky way of doing business, if you ask me. So they can go feth themselves.

 Albertorius wrote:
Problem with those new pdfs is that if you bought their old gakky scanned pdfs, you don't get to get those updated unless you buy them all again.

Which is a really gakky way of doing business, if you ask me. So they can go feth themselves.

Normally I'd agree with you in general on simple updates of pdfs but I think these are genuinely better/more in this limited case. I would add though that the price is a bit more than I expected though and I would have appreciated some sort of a discount for those who bought the previous ones. I might pick up some 1st edition Field Guides the next time drivethru has a big sale but I totally understand why others wouldn't. Fortunately in my case, my most nostalgic wants are the cheapest/smallest products.

 warboss wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Problem with those new pdfs is that if you bought their old gakky scanned pdfs, you don't get to get those updated unless you buy them all again.

Which is a really gakky way of doing business, if you ask me. So they can go feth themselves.

Normally I'd agree with you in general on simple updates of pdfs but I think these are genuinely better/more in this limited case. I would add though that the price is a bit more than I expected though and I would have appreciated some sort of a discount for those who bought the previous ones. I might pick up some 1st edition Field Guides the next time drivethru has a big sale but I totally understand why others wouldn't. Fortunately in my case, my most nostalgic wants are the cheapest/smallest products.

They are the same books, and they did NEVER update their crappily scanned pdfs. I don't think they should expect people that already bought their books to get them again if the content is the same, so updating them for the people that did bear with them and the shoddy performance should not even impact their baseline.

Also, by that same logic errataed books are also better/more, so we shouldn't get those for free either .

The new pdfs are, simply put, what they should have been since the very begining, but they were too cheap to do until now. And if you were stupid enough to buy them before? Well, feth you, sucks to be you.

And let's not fool ourselves, these are just updated pdfs, unless they have different ISBN numbers to prove they aren't. I could have done (and I have done) what they have in a lot less time, and it's not that much of an effort or an expense. They, once again, were simply too cheap to do it until now, and they are, once again, too cheap to update their already existing customers.

The new books have a weird path to existence. Basically one fan fronted the money (like $5k) to have an outside company take the original compatible-with-nothing ancient mac files and bash on them til they could be imported into a program modern enough to render them as PDFs.

The guy that owns DP9? Never cared about making updated copies, he just wanted to make brand new books and who gives a gak about the old stuff. He approved of this project grudgingly.

I believe part of their cost is to directly reimburse that fan.

And they are incredibly better quality than any other company I've ever seen try to digitize an old book has achieved. Maybe when WotC did the AD&D 1e set. They're basically 'remastered', not fixed.

But totally agree, an 'upgrade' discount should have been available to people that own the old scans.

slyphic wrote:
The new books have a weird path to existence. Basically one fan fronted the money (like $5k) to have an outside company take the original compatible-with-nothing ancient mac files and bash on them til they could be imported into a program modern enough to render them as PDFs.

The guy that owns DP9? Never cared about making updated copies, he just wanted to make brand new books and who gives a gak about the old stuff. He approved of this project grudgingly.

That is entirely plausible, knowing Robert.

I'm of two minds about this one.
On one hand, this is exactly the product I've been wanting for... Hmmm... At least 15 years now ? Good quality PDFs.
On the other, they are overpriced at pretty much actual paper book prize, and there's something weird about the whole thing.

For all his talk about pleasing the fans, Robert seems really intent on burrying the whole 1st/2nd ed line, and I remember claims the original files were lost. I'm not surprised to hear about how reluctant he was about this, what I'm surprised about is that some people were able to convince him otherwise.

In the end, I'm still quite likely to get the core books in that "new" line.
Sell me things I want, with satisfying quality, you'll get my money.

Apparently someone put money up front, and I guess that was too much of a temptation.

Funnily enough... if something like $5k is "big money" for the company, and a big investment that needs to be recouped... that puts in perspective a lot of their financial situation.

That amount of money is in the ballpark of what I get for a corebook translation (sometimes more, sometimes less). A single one. That's about a month, month and a half of part-time work for me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, as a side note to te Pod: If you want this stuff to sell, particularly at those prices... don't just throw it all at the same time.

Drip feed it. Sell them one at a time, maybe dropping one each couple weeks. It's more likely people will buy them that way (instead of a guhe amount of money to rebuy what they already have), AND you keep interest longer, as you have stuff being released over a longer period of time.

Think of it as the Netflix vs. regular release of series: people talk about stuff longer if it's released over a longer timeframe.

 HudsonD wrote:

Sell me things I want, with satisfying quality, you'll get my money.

It's sadly ironic that one of the things that made DP9 stand out to me in the mid 90's was the same electronic layout that "stopped" them from professionally releasing the products digitally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Albertorius wrote:
Apparently someone put money up front, and I guess that was too much of a temptation.

Funnily enough... if something like $5k is "big money" for the company, and a big investment that needs to be recouped... that puts in perspective a lot of their financial situation.

That amount of money is in the ballpark of what I get for a corebook translation (sometimes more, sometimes less). A single one. That's about a month, month and a half of part-time work for me.

Albertorius discussing his next project with the company...

I mean, if I was at all interested in working for Robert, it would not be for free...

 Albertorius wrote:
I mean, if I was at all interested in working for Robert, it would not be for free...

Nor should it! It was just a joke post regardless in case that didn't come through clearly about getting paid upfront.

 warboss wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
I mean, if I was at all interested in working for Robert, it would not be for free...

Nor should it! It was just a joke post regardless in case that didn't come through clearly about getting paid upfront.

Ah, gotcha! xD Yeah, that too, most certainly ^^

I can't help but wonder if simply scanning the text, then redoing the whole layout from scratch wouldn't have been easier, faster and cheaper.

 HudsonD wrote:
I can't help but wonder if simply scanning the text, then redoing the whole layout from scratch wouldn't have been easier, faster and cheaper.

For DP9? It's hard to be cheaper than free if the above statements about a fan funding it privately are true.

 warboss wrote:
It's hard to be cheaper than free if the above statements about a fan funding it privately are true.

I literally talked to the guy that's named in the thanks section of the announcement. Horse's mouth.

And also, they're trying direct 3D printing of models ala PP with their next release - https://www.dp9community.com/gear-up-blog/caprice-reinforcements-maru-and-zikru

slyphic wrote:

 warboss wrote:
It's hard to be cheaper than free if the above statements about a fan funding it privately are true.

I literally talked to the guy that's named in the thanks section of the announcement. Horse's mouth.

Thanks for the clarification. It wasn't meant as a dig against you or anyone else as the source but just rather a standard I apply unless I see/hear/read it myself.

 HudsonD wrote:
I can't help but wonder if simply scanning the text, then redoing the whole layout from scratch wouldn't have been easier, faster and cheaper.

Probably, yes. Their layout is not that complex, and they already had templates for those, and all the illustrations in the original color versions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

slyphic wrote:

 warboss wrote:
It's hard to be cheaper than free if the above statements about a fan funding it privately are true.

I literally talked to the guy that's named in the thanks section of the announcement. Horse's mouth.

And also, they're trying direct 3D printing of models ala PP with their next release - https://www.dp9community.com/gear-up-blog/caprice-reinforcements-maru-and-zikru

Not interested in buying what I can get at home. Let me buy the files, and we'll talk, otherwise it's a non-starter.

EDIT: Also... not those. Ugh. Theey look like old caprician mounts, and I'm not saying that in a good way.

I don't know if this is news to anyone else but apparently the rpg kickstarter went up two weeks ago.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/heavygearblitz/heavy-gear-roleplaying-game-fourth-edition/description

I recall someone was working on some large scale stls for the older gears a few years ago. Does anyone else remember that or what happened?

 Ahtman wrote:
I recall someone was working on some large scale stls for the older gears a few years ago. Does anyone else remember that or what happened?

There was a guy on reddit that I had bookmarked who was working on files but my old computer HD crashed and I lost it along with most of my own files ripped from the Assault game.

 Ahtman wrote:
I recall someone was working on some large scale stls for the older gears a few years ago. Does anyone else remember that or what happened?

I printed a Hunter and contacted the person who did it to ask them if they were planning to do some more. They said yeah, but...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As to the RPG KS is... a weird duck.

No real info about the game on the KS, no real talk about mechanics, no Quick Start to show the game during the KS... no nothing, other than some pics and some promises. Not even the old beta.

And pretty out there prices for the physical copy, too (120$ CAD for a softcover, 140$ CAD for a hardcover, plus shipping, for a DrivethruRPG PoD book).

That much? Oof. That's alot. I only skimmed through the info and didn't look at the pledge levels as I'm not the target for this (my interest in HG traditionally was more on the tactical/wargaming side personally). I can't see that working at retail after the fact either so I wonder if that's even in the plans. I suppose retail customers getting a massive discount to make it viable would be an option once they traditionally print it (instead of POD) but that certainly isn't likely to engender much good will in the early adopters.

It's not going to go to retail, as they are only doing PoD.

Not with this KS at least.

 Albertorius wrote:


And pretty out there prices for the physical copy, too (120$ CAD for a softcover, 140$ CAD for a hardcover, plus shipping, for a DrivethruRPG PoD book).

Finally got around to looking at this, and yeah, that's really rough. $30 CAD for the eBook alone doesn't seem too bad, but another +90 CAD for getting a softcover version (or +110 for hardcover). Going by the campaign, it's 480 pages full color, that's about twice as thick as 2nd edition, which was mostly black and white. With that size I think going hardcover for the extra $20 is probably the better idea, but $140 is pricey.

For reference, the Pathfinder 2e Core Rulebook hardcover is 640 pages full color and $105 CAD on Amazon, but they are getting some economies of scale given the popularity and traditional printing.

I do like that sample art though. Eldon Cowgur has done a decent job channeling Ghislain's original art.

I didn't play 2nd edition. Did they split off the tactical wargame from the RPG in the core book or was that later?

 warboss wrote:
I didn't play 2nd edition. Did they split off the tactical wargame from the RPG in the core book or was that later?

IIRC, the Tactical box came out after 2nd edition, and really it just stripped the RPG elements out and focused on vehicular combat scale. Eventually this would become Heavy Gear Blitz!

 John Prins wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:


And pretty out there prices for the physical copy, too (120$ CAD for a softcover, 140$ CAD for a hardcover, plus shipping, for a DrivethruRPG PoD book).

Finally got around to looking at this, and yeah, that's really rough. $30 CAD for the eBook alone doesn't seem too bad, but another +90 CAD for getting a softcover version (or +110 for hardcover). Going by the campaign, it's 480 pages full color, that's about twice as thick as 2nd edition, which was mostly black and white. With that size I think going hardcover for the extra $20 is probably the better idea, but $140 is pricey.

For reference, the Pathfinder 2e Core Rulebook hardcover is 640 pages full color and $105 CAD on Amazon, but they are getting some economies of scale given the popularity and traditional printing.

I do like that sample art though. Eldon Cowgur has done a decent job channeling Ghislain's original art.

Problem is... "bigger =/= better". Does it need 480 pages to create a game because it needs it, or because the writing is overly dense? What does doubling up in pagecount gives you in comparison with 2nd edition, taking into account that book gave you even tactical rules in a single package?

Furthermore, to give a better comparison, the Worlds Without Number DrivethruRPG hardcover color print is 400 pages and CAD$ 80.21. At regular prices, not at KS reduced ones. So I'm pretty confident saying that their pricing is a "tad" out there.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product_info.php?cPath=38601&products_id=348791¤cy=CAD&

EDIT: Actually, I've just checked and it seems it going to be DrivethruRPG's most expensive printed book, outside of bundles and "we had to put this on DTRPG to send it, but we'll put a pants on head crazy price so that nobody but people with our code will order it" books.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse.php?filters=0_0_0_44294_0&src=fid44294&sort=3a&page=258


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warboss wrote:
I didn't play 2nd edition. Did they split off the tactical wargame from the RPG in the core book or was that later?

Nope, the tactical rules were on the book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And with that, I just cancelled my pledge. No quickstart during the KS and those prices makes me have to wait and see.

 Albertorius wrote:

EDIT: Actually, I've just checked and it seems it going to be DrivethruRPG's most expensive printed book, outside of bundles and "we had to put this on DTRPG to send it, but we'll put a pants on head crazi price so that nobody but people with out code will order it" books.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse.php?filters=0_0_0_44294_0&src=fid44294&sort=3a&page=258

That's probably not a list you want to be on top of as a niche game whose nostalgia for most is a hazy distant memory. Maybe DP9 is trying to recoup their initial costs immediately and pay the freelancers only with those funds like with the earlier rescans?

 John Prins wrote:

IIRC, the Tactical box came out after 2nd edition, and really it just stripped the RPG elements out and focused on vehicular combat scale. Eventually this would become Heavy Gear Blitz!

 Albertorius wrote:

Nope, the tactical rules were on the book.

Thanks for the confirmation on the tactical rules. I knew they split them off at some point after I quit but wasn't sure if it was with the subsequent 2e or later.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For those that follow HG on other platforms (twitter, discord, facebook, the official forums, etc), how is the reception for the new RPG? I'm curious as to the excitement it's raising and if it feels more weighted to nostalgic classic fans or if it's enticing in new players too.

 Albertorius wrote:

Problem is... "bigger =/= better". Does it need 480 pages to create a game because it needs it, or because the writing is overly dense? What does doubling up in pagecount gives you in comparison with 2nd edition, taking into account that book gave you even tactical rules in a single package?

I definitely think we need more info on what the book contains. All we really know it it has integrated RPG/Blitz rules and vehicle customization. Hopefully it contains a lot of Life on Terra Nova material so that new people to the game don't have to buy older edition material to get enough info on the world. But I imagine a lot of that space could be vehicle stats.

Furthermore, to give a better comparison, the Worlds Without Number DrivethruRPG hardcover color print is 400 pages and CAD$ 80.21. At regular prices, not at KS reduced ones. So I'm pretty confident saying that their pricing is a "tad" out there.

Agreed, it's high. Based on that price a 480 page book (20% larger) would be 96CAD, and the hardcover is a 110CAD add on.

And with that, I just cancelled my pledge. No quickstart during the KS and those prices makes me have to wait and see.

Definitely pushing into 'artbook' prices rather than RPG book prices. I have to admit I'd buy this mainly for the new art, though at least 1 other person in my local gaming group is buying in already.

 John Prins wrote:
Agreed, it's high. Based on that price a 480 page book (20% larger) would be 96CAD, and the hardcover is a 110CAD add on.

I would not discount the pdf price from the price of the hardcover unless they are planning not to give it away with the physical version (which.... would not be a good look, IMHO, and also the WWN book also has a complimentary pdf, so it would be the same comparison either way). At this moment, the only price point we've seen of the books is CAD$120 for the softcover (with complimentary pdf) and CAD$140 for the hardcover (with complimentary pdf).

Or are you talking about something else? Because I haven't seen any add on on the campaign.

 Albertorius wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
Agreed, it's high. Based on that price a 480 page book (20% larger) would be 96CAD, and the hardcover is a 110CAD add on.

I would not discount the pdf price from the price of the hardcover unless they are planning not to give it away with the physical version (which.... would not be a good look, IMHO, and also the WWN book also has a complimentary pdf, so it would be the same comparison either way). At this moment, the only price point we've seen of the books is CAD$120 for the softcover (with complimentary pdf) and CAD$140 for the hardcover (with complimentary pdf).

Or are you talking about something else? Because I haven't seen any add on on the campaign.

There's an add-on for just the physical book in the pledge manager, I guess so people can get extra copies. I dunno if you can just straight pledge 110 and select a book, though.

 John Prins wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
Agreed, it's high. Based on that price a 480 page book (20% larger) would be 96CAD, and the hardcover is a 110CAD add on.

I would not discount the pdf price from the price of the hardcover unless they are planning not to give it away with the physical version (which.... would not be a good look, IMHO, and also the WWN book also has a complimentary pdf, so it would be the same comparison either way). At this moment, the only price point we've seen of the books is CAD$120 for the softcover (with complimentary pdf) and CAD$140 for the hardcover (with complimentary pdf).

Or are you talking about something else? Because I haven't seen any add on on the campaign.

There's an add-on for just the physical book in the pledge manager, I guess so people can get extra copies. I dunno if you can just straight pledge 110 and select a book, though.

Thank you for the clarification, I didn't notice the PM. So it seems they're pricing the pdf at $30 no matter what... I'd rather they didn't :( but it makes the price of the actual physical book less insane.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 John Prins wrote:
I definitely think we need more info on what the book contains. All we really know it it has integrated RPG/Blitz rules and vehicle customization. Hopefully it contains a lot of Life on Terra Nova material so that new people to the game don't have to buy older edition material to get enough info on the world. But I imagine a lot of that space could be vehicle stats.

It DOES seem like it's going to have a fuckton of vehicle stats...

https://www.dp9community.com/gear-up-blog/heavy-gear-rpg-murdock-amp-seeker

Apparently everything in the companion but the Murdock and the Seeker.... so probably everything else is in too (because otherwise having utopian droids and paxtonian tiny-gears-they-tell-us-are-exosqueletons but not other stuff would seem weird xD)

Kinda begs the question of how needed were those when the regular Blitz stats are the same (AFAIK) and available for free in the Blitz books.

 Albertorius wrote:

Kinda begs the question of how needed were those when the regular Blitz stats are the same (AFAIK) and available for free in the Blitz books.

Apparently there are slight differences?

https://www.dp9community.com/gear-up-blog/the-nash-basilisk-stalks-its-prey

This blog entry has 2 different stat blocks for the Nash - one in HGB and one in the RPG, which seems to allow for customization. It's mostly the same but...

Hm, can't say I'm up to date enough with the new blitz rules to say much, but it feels like it would have been probably more efficient to just state what you needed to change to use the stats for the RPG, if any. Give a couple of core examples, refer people to the free wargame, maybe make some of the RPG players check that one out...

Adding all the vehicles from your wargame to the corebook of your rpg is certainly a choice, though. Or a mission statement, I guess.

Well I guess they would need to list every vehicle in the RPG for customization purposes in the first place, so putting in stats is just efficient. Nobody wants to be told "for most gears, cross reference this other book and do this conversion" even if that book is free.

The conversion does seem relatively minor. Armor/Hull seems to have been replaced with a single stat (HI which I assume is Hull Integrity) and the success thresholds have changed (in a way I don't understand, GU and PI are 4+ in Blitz but +0 in the RPG format), but otherwise everything seems to be just a reformatting aside from the customization slot table.

 John Prins wrote:
Well I guess they would need to list every vehicle in the RPG for customization purposes in the first place, so putting in stats is just efficient. Nobody wants to be told "for most gears, cross reference this other book and do this conversion" even if that book is free.

The conversion does seem relatively minor. Armor/Hull seems to have been replaced with a single stat (HI which I assume is Hull Integrity) and the success thresholds have changed (in a way I don't understand, GU and PI are 4+ in Blitz but +0 in the RPG format), but otherwise everything seems to be just a reformatting aside from the customization slot table.

Yeah, dunno. Maybe it kinda rubs me the wrong way because it's not what I want out of a HG RPG myself and that shadows my perception of it. For some reason, almost all of the HG campaigns I've played and/or GMed mostly had vehicles as window dressing (where you don't need stats for anything) or only appeared like in one out of ten sessions, if ever. The only exceptions were military campaigns (where customization was... well, not that much of a thing or very minor, as your vehicles were not yours, so just using the default tactical stats was much more than enough) or that underground gear racing one that we did after watching Rideback ^^ (where we mostly used the VCS to create butwheel prototypes).

But most HG campaigns I've played/GMed were apparently different to the default they want.

Noble Knight Games has a sale going on. Heavy Gear Blitz army sets are $55.

They must have sold out as I don't see any currently. This may sound strange but I only think of Noble Knight in terms of out of print used items moreso than new.

 warboss wrote:
They must have sold out as I don't see any currently. This may sound strange but I only think of Noble Knight in terms of out of print used items moreso than new.

They're the biggest distributor right now for Bushido, so I keep tabs on them. Their search/filter functions are...less than impressive though.

Northern Army Box--4 in stock
Caprice Army Box--4 in stock
Peace River Army Box--5 in stock
Utopia Army Box--4 in stock
NuCoal Army Box--1 in stock

Good for the US-located people ^^

I'd say not to bother with the northern/southern ones, as usual, but the rest seem like a pretty tight deal for that money.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 warboss wrote:
They must have sold out as I don't see any currently. This may sound strange but I only think of Noble Knight in terms of out of print used items moreso than new.

They're the biggest distributor right now for Bushido, so I keep tabs on them. Their search/filter functions are...less than impressive though.

Northern Army Box--4 in stock
Caprice Army Box--4 in stock
Peace River Army Box--5 in stock
Utopia Army Box--4 in stock
NuCoal Army Box--1 in stock

Thanks! Literally none of those popped up for me when I entered Heavy Gear into the search and filtered by price (high first).

https://www.nobleknight.com/Search?text=heavy+gear&PageSize=100&SortBy=pricehigh




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Albertorius wrote:
Good for the US-located people ^^

I'd say not to bother with the northern/southern ones, as usual, but the rest seem like a pretty tight deal for that money.

I'd only consider Caprice personally but the discount is only 10% approximately.

Checking the KS I see, CA$ 100,848 pledged of CA$ 40,000 goal with 808 people.

It seems to me like a successful campaign, but what do I know? I have heard there's lots of new art, and given the last few years of global disruptions have caused price increases that are pretty drastic.

I know our food bill has gone up way out of proportion to the officially reported rate of inflation over here in Britain (probably due to Brexshit).

 Paint it Pink wrote:
Checking the KS I see, CA$ 100,848 pledged of CA$ 40,000 goal with 808 people.

It seems to me like a successful campaign, but what do I know? I have heard there's lots of new art, and given the last few years of global disruptions have caused price increases that are pretty drastic.

I know our food bill has gone up way out of proportion to the officially reported rate of inflation over here in Britain (probably due to Brexshit).

I'm glad it worked out and it definitely had a big bump since the last time I checked it. Hopefully being POD will avoid at least some of the disruptions for the customers who bought physical copies. If anything, the new art is what I'd be most excited about personally though I'm not a backer so will have to see it second hand.

Finally got me a RAFM King Cobra again for the first time in about 20 years. It was the my first tabletop model that I bought (not just for HG but miniatures gaming in general) and I finally got another one to go with my resurrected RAFM collection that I've still yet to paint even a single model of. I suppose now I have no excuse not to assemble a southern force to match my existing Northern one. That way I can sell off my extras as I'd have no excuse not to.

Nice to see you're still interested in the hobby part of the game at least ^^

 Albertorius wrote:
Nice to see you're still interested in the hobby part of the game at least ^^

Thanks. It is a bit odd that I'm coming full swing back to what started it with my most recent hobby efforts on my mostly defunct blog being the first two miniature games that I played (FASAtrek and HG). After some thought, I think I may have been wrong in that the King Cobra was my first ever model (though it was the "king" of the collection though!). I think the first one was actually the Support Cobra because I remember not having a clue how to assemble that weapons array on the back. #90sN00bProblems


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So did anyone here pledge for the RPG? If so, are you willing to post updates on the progress?

I eventually decided against it, mainly due to the lack of a quickstart during the campaign. The little they've shown on their web articles seem to point at a game I'm less interested in than I expected.

So I'm OK with waiting for the regular release.

 Albertorius wrote:
I eventually decided against it, mainly due to the lack of a quickstart during the campaign. The little they've shown on their web articles seem to point at a game I'm less interested in than I expected.

So I'm OK with waiting for the regular release.

I assume you'd be getting the PDF if anything then? Is there a preorder crowdfunding discount for the pdf?

 warboss wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
I eventually decided against it, mainly due to the lack of a quickstart during the campaign. The little they've shown on their web articles seem to point at a game I'm less interested in than I expected.

So I'm OK with waiting for the regular release.

I assume you'd be getting the PDF if anything then? Is there a preorder crowdfunding discount for the pdf?

Seeing as the pdf was $30, I think not (or the PDF will be very expensive indeed). You did get a couple of free adventures, though, but, again, the focus of those didn't really appeal to me.

 warboss wrote:
Finally got me a RAFM King Cobra again for the first time in about 20 years. It was the my first tabletop model that I bought (not just for HG but miniatures gaming in general) and I finally got another one to go with my resurrected RAFM collection that I've still yet to paint even a single model of. I suppose now I have no excuse not to assemble a southern force to match my existing Northern one. That way I can sell off my extras as I'd have no excuse not to.

Cool for cats, great score.

Looking forward to seeing it assembled.

I do not play very often, but i have had the force for years. did a quick 100 point game against South with my CEF. just a couple squads of light and medium tanks. the mediums got a bit to close early on. after they were destroyed the lights backed off an won the day, both had moderate damage but took the southern force down to a single light gear.

Arise, thread! For all the prolific 3d printers out there (so basically Albertorius!)... It looks like someone is (re)doing the HGA Hunter.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/heavy-gear-done-89540928

Oh boy. So much want

It was definitely the best design they had (and in my opinion the only truly good one). The Grizzly was ok too so maybe now that HG(A) is on his radar he'll do that one someday as well.

Looks like the guy added the HGA Jaeger as well for all the Southern players/modellers.

Did anything ever come of that larger scale HG RPG model that was mentioned and/or previewed? What is the status of the most recent iteration of the RPG?

Anyone here do his Patreon and can vouch for the quality of the files? For the biggest scale option it says they're posable, does that mean the printed parts can be posed for assembly, or they are designed to be posed in the STL before printing? I'd love to print out a massive HG kit, but you can never be sure with these things.

 warboss wrote:
Did anything ever come of that larger scale HG RPG model that was mentioned and/or previewed? What is the status of the most recent iteration of the RPG?

No clue on the first, but I believe the last round of text edits and layout finished up yesterday. Editor hopes to get approval from Rob for a couple test prints, then once those are received, if there's no major fuckups or surprises, it's either approval for a full run or a second set of edits and then the final run.

 slyphic wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Did anything ever come of that larger scale HG RPG model that was mentioned and/or previewed? What is the status of the most recent iteration of the RPG?

No clue on the first, but I believe the last round of text edits and layout finished up yesterday. Editor hopes to get approval from Rob for a couple test prints, then once those are received, if there's no major fuckups or surprises, it's either approval for a full run or a second set of edits and then the final run.

Cool. I fully admit that I didn't follow it too closely so might confuse the various projects with each other.

 Prometheum5 wrote:
Anyone here do his Patreon and can vouch for the quality of the files? For the biggest scale option it says they're posable, does that mean the printed parts can be posed for assembly, or they are designed to be posed in the STL before printing? I'd love to print out a massive HG kit, but you can never be sure with these things.

I bought his Scopedog, and it's pretty cool. Quite modular, very poseable (default scale a bit big for "28mm", but not too much):

Nice! Thanks for the comparison shots.

Thanks, that's super helpful! Guess I'm doing a month of patronage.

So it seems backers are starting to receive the PDF for the HG RPG 4th edition core rulebook.

So, if anyone did back it, it would be interesting to hear your opinion on the end product ^_^

Same here. I'd be interested in a mini-review.

A good samaritan helped me getting hold of the book to take a quick look...

...and I have to say that first impression is not great, just from a visual point.

The layout is very amateurish, most of the new illustrations are... well, competent but not really any good (a lot of the single character archetypes and the like are pretty good, though), and on the whole, coupled with the poor image placement on the document it has made the game lose any sense of visual cohesiveness.

On the readability side, it feels like all the text has just been thrown on the pages without much of a sense for text density or eye flow movement, so it doesn't make for the greatest read... kind of bothersome and makes me tire easy.

I was just yesterday doing layout on a fan translation I've done of Outgunned, an italian action movie RPG, and the difference is very stark on that regard. not only the layout on that one is really great (clean, easy to follow, not too much text just thrown on a page but designed to ease of use and readability) but the cohesiveness of the illustrations and the whole visual aspect of the game is great, and it makes this one looks so much the worse in comparison.

The worst thing? My 2nd edition book looks much better in both regards, and it is a damn shame.

And at the end of the day, there's the change in focus on the game, from "a scifi game in a new, 'realistic' world, wich incidentally has mecha" to "a mecha RPG game in the vein of Mechwarrior or Lancer".

Which really begs the question: how would you sell me this game to use it instead of the Lancer RPG? Because at this moment, that is kind of the gold standard on mecha RPG games.

That's sad to hear about the layout. I know it won't seem noteworthy nowadays but it was a refreshingly modern digital layout for the 90s that was unlike anything I had ever seen from Palladium or TSR at the time. Regarding the focus of the game, for us it was always a mecha rpg game but admittedly we were coming into it from the wargaming side and got into the game specifically for the gears.

Will you be looking at the rules too? I've never played Lancer but I did download it at your recommendation but unfortuantely only found one other person locally interested in trying it out.

No, I don't think I'm the rules have managed to catch my attention, but it might have everything to do with the book being actively unfun to look at.

...and the 160+ pages of table after table of vehicle stats, seemingly lifted straight from the minis game. That feels soul sucking boring to look at,

It is clear I'm not the target for this game. 2nd edition sucked me in with Ghislain's incredible cover art and the setting pages set the deal. This game has not.

But I'm still open to be convinced, so if anyone actually gives it a good read and is familiar with Lancer or even Mechwarrior (this seems much closer to that one), why would you recommend this one over those?

 Albertorius wrote:

It is clear I'm not the target for this game. 2nd edition sucked me in with Ghislain's incredible cover art and the setting pages set the deal.

I didn't realize you were so new to the fandom as I always had you pegged as a 1st edition guy. Of course, the caveat is that only about two years separated them and that was part of the problem so...

 warboss wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

It is clear I'm not the target for this game. 2nd edition sucked me in with Ghislain's incredible cover art and the setting pages set the deal.

I didn't realize you were so new to the fandom as I always had you pegged as a 1st edition guy. Of course, the caveat is that only about two years separated them and that was part of the problem so...

Hehe, yeah, one day I found the spanish edition, just newly released, at my FLGS. I knew nothing about it and bought it just on the strength of the book's presentation (cover/perusing it a bit).

I would not have done that this time around, unfortunately. 2nd edition was sleek, sexy and alluring. 4th looks amateurish, overdone and overstuffed.

I was in the same boat with 1st. I saw the DP9 Gencon advertisement for HG with a hunter in some jungle plants and was hooked. I had seen their prior MechaPress magazines so had high hopes and was impressed when I saw/played it with a friend who also got into it at the same time.

 Albertorius wrote:
The layout is very amateurish, most of the new illustrations are... well, competent but not really any good

Did we look at the same book? I thought the new art was fantastic. My favorite pieces so far:

And as for comparing the layout to Lancer, wut? They're both two column lists with sprinkled art. They're the exact same.

 Albertorius wrote:
and the 160+ pages of table after table of vehicle stats, seemingly lifted straight from the minis game. That feels soul sucking boring to look at

As opposed to Lancer's 149 pages of table after table of vehicle stats? I'm not saying you're wrong to dislike it or anything like that, but your examination of the individual components feels colored by an overall impression.

I don't think I've seen the inside of a Battletech book in ages, I know that game more from decades of random games and word-of-mouth and quick ref sheets. So no opinion on how it compares there. However, in terms of RPG layout and design I have still never found anything as both readable and usable at the table as the Swordfish Island books by Jacob Hurst & Gabriel Hernandez from 2017

Lancer leans HARD on comp/con, which sucks at an actual table with a bunch of humans in the same room. It's probably great for online play, which I hate.

Ok, so we're doing this, then.

 slyphic wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
The layout is very amateurish, most of the new illustrations are... well, competent but not really any good

Did we look at the same book? I thought the new art was fantastic. My favorite pieces so far:

I'm pretty sure we did, and some cool pics does not a good layout make . Those are decent images in and of themselves, but many clash harshly with the old Ghislain's art, which it retains.

Also, you have a lot like these:



which, to quote myself:

are... well, competent but not really any good

and I stand by it. They're... ok? But these ones clash even more harshly with Ghislain's art, which is still the majority, and makes for a very disjointed art style overall.

 Albertorius wrote:
and the 160+ pages of table after table of vehicle stats, seemingly lifted straight from the minis game. That feels soul sucking boring to look at

As opposed to Lancer's 149 pages of table after table of vehicle stats? I'm not saying you're wrong to dislike it or anything like that, but your examination of the individual components feels colored by an overall impression.

Important difference here? All of those pages are meant for the player, and are for the player, meaning that a) they are not useable as GM opponents, because the game is designed specifically for GM stuff to use GM rules, and 2) they look like this:

(player side)


(GM side)


...instead of this (both GM and player side):


So, not only they're providing information tailored for the target (player or GM), with actually useful information there, clearly color-coded for ease of reference, they also provide with a whole lot more of setting information... instead of being, you know, tables of just stats directly lifted from the wargame that, being as far as I know free already, could just have been referenced as "go check this free book with all the stats".

And as for comparing the layout to Lancer, wut? They're both two column lists with sprinkled art. They're the exact same.

Spoiler:

No, sorry, they're absolutely not, and what you've just said is just about the only thing they have in common. Lancer has a very thorough "lay it out for ease of reference" ethos on the book, with stuff like color-coded rules parts, very clearly diferentiated titling and page flow, all the while making sure the pages have whitespace enough so that the text "breathes" and don't make the book lok cluttered, and a strict style guide so that everything is always done the same way and looks the same way, different from all other things:



I know this because I have actually translated the whole book into spanish and have had to lay it out, using the above style guide.

The one good thing I can say about HG's layout is the chapter colored pages for ease of reference. That's a nice point, slightly devalued by having 17 different chapters ^^.

I don't think I've seen the inside of a Battletech book in ages, I know that game more from decades of random games and word-of-mouth and quick ref sheets. So no opinion on how it compares there. However, in terms of RPG layout and design I have still never found anything as both readable and usable at the table as the Swordfish Island books by Jacob Hurst & Gabriel Hernandez from 2017

Spoiler:

Lancer leans HARD on comp/con, which sucks at an actual table with a bunch of humans in the same room. It's probably great for online play, which I hate.