I thought there was a survey for missing parts that had till the end of the month or something?
I sent message yesterday and they got back to me this morning (well maybe it was afternoon at Mantic HQ) about my missing order. I'll probably be getting my stuff 2nd week-ish of Feb so kind of when people are able to buy it retail. But at least they aren't trying to wait until they fulfill the missing parts survey (or did I just hallucinate that being a thing).
I only submitted mine last night (and my KoW one as well - don't judge, I had a gakload of real life infringement last year ) so let the countdown begin.........
Dammit still got Dreadball to submit, definitely only backing for exclusive stuff in future KS, fed up of how long it takes to figure out what I should have and then whether any parts are missing (had to submit my Goblin Mincer as "definitely missing 2 scythes, and maybe some other bits as it looks like there are connections that I can't match to other parts" - yeah, maybe there is assembly instructions somewhere, but when you only went in for 1000pt Orc army and 3 BOGOFs and you've already been at it for a couple of hours there's a limit to how hard you're going to look).
I haven't actually gotten my parts yet, FWIW, but they said they would ship them last Monday. I was kind of surprised at how fast I got a response after some of the stories I'd heard about response times.
Then if Warpath appears later on the year, that's the one I'm going nuts with. $1k+.
Really at this point I think we need to start seeing some production sprue samples for deadzone. And good hi-res pictures of them, too.
The latest episode of Mantic Radio http://www.ohiohammer.com/blog/?p=1680 addresses some of that. Great interview with Ronnie.
Doesn't look like Warpath will be this year;
Dreadball Extreme sounds amazing;
and Ronnie stated they got the retool of the space zombies in the past week and have made a last bit of adjustments before finalizing the sprue (re-re-tool? sounds promising that they are exercising this much QC on the hard plastics).
Then if Warpath appears later on the year, that's the one I'm going nuts with. $1k+.
Really at this point I think we need to start seeing some production sprue samples for deadzone. And good hi-res pictures of them, too.
The latest episode of Mantic Radio http://www.ohiohammer.com/blog/?p=1680 addresses some of that. Great interview with Ronnie.
Doesn't look like Warpath will be this year;
Dreadball Ultimate sounds amazing;
and Ronnie stated they got the retool of the space zombies in the past week and have made a last bit of adjustments before finalizing the sprue (re-re-tool? sounds promising that they are exercising this much QC on the hard plastics).
Unfortunately, Mantic QC in the past left much to be desired, and I will believe it when I see it. Of course, I could be wrong, and maybe the sculptor's first take on the Basilean sisters was to bronze a couple pieces of he/she found on the sidewalk, and it was only after valiant efforts on the part of Mantic that we got the disturbingly humanoid ape nuns.
That being said, even I cannot control the faint sprig of hope in my heart that Mantic will put out a decent injection plastic sprue.
You pick a team sponsor that allows access to various different players and you have a number of credits to spend to build your team.
Scoring zones are the same but there are lots of obstacles on the pitch.
Base game Convicts and Asterians - new ASterian team more brutal than the current one.
6-8 new MVPs
KS will fund new teams that can be used in regular DReadball as well.
POssibly 3 new Seasons 4,5,6 - 4 new teams each (12 total) - depends on funding.
Aiming for 24 teams in total over 6 seasons (not including MA team)
Dreadball Extreme pitch will be like the Ultimate pitch (mouse pad type) also possible that the original pitch will be done like this as a strecth goal.
Just saw this on their Facebook. Someone asked about the fancy new interactive Dreadball book/app for iPad/iPhone/tablets/ereaders/webapp in comparison to the pre-existing pdf's from Wargames Vault and they said
"This is going to be a different product to the Wargame Vault pdfs - it's designed from the ground up with tablets and smartphones in mind, and has loads of bells and whistles. However, we're going to give everyone who bought a DreadBall rulebook through WGV a discount equal to the what they've already paid "
Then if Warpath appears later on the year, that's the one I'm going nuts with. $1k+.
Really at this point I think we need to start seeing some production sprue samples for deadzone. And good hi-res pictures of them, too.
The latest episode of Mantic Radio http://www.ohiohammer.com/blog/?p=1680 addresses some of that. Great interview with Ronnie.
Doesn't look like Warpath will be this year;
Dreadball Extreme sounds amazing;
and Ronnie stated they got the retool of the space zombies in the past week and have made a last bit of adjustments before finalizing the sprue (re-re-tool? sounds promising that they are exercising this much QC on the hard plastics).
Thanks for the heads up, definitely going to listen to that ep since there's a Ronnie interview.
I am a little worried about the fact that every single tool they've got out of China post-MAA has required retooling two or three times. This should not be necessary unless the company has completely BS'ed Mantic about its own ability to actually do the job it receives a six-figure (hard cash, not credit) sum to carry out.
So far we know:
Core worlds battlezones - retooled once.
Connector sprue - retooled three times.
Enforcers sprue - retooled at least once.
Plague Zombies - retooled at least once.
It is getting a bit ridiculous to the point where I'm not sure if the cheap/crap China company they're using is even capable of doing the job they've been paid for.
The connector sprue is far from perfect, even after 3 retools.
The concern is that the end result will not be "amazing quality sprue" but rather "somewhat crap sprue but it's better than the last 3 attempts and should just about do the job without too many people moaning about it".
On the other hand, I do appreciate the transparency they're offering with the production process these days. Much improved from the KoWKS.
On the sprue, I've had a quick chat about this, and no that Ronnie has said things, I'll share a little.
Re-cut - Not re-tooling, but an additional level of cutting into and already made tool to make grooves deeper and detail sharper. I'm fairly sure there are many reasons why you can't do too many (economy of scale comes to mind), but this should work fine, from what I've heard from Mantic.
sukura636 wrote: On the sprue, I've had a quick chat about this, and no that Ronnie has said things, I'll share a little.
Re-cut - Not re-tooling, but an additional level of cutting into and already made tool to make grooves deeper and detail sharper. I'm fairly sure there are many reasons why you can't do too many (economy of scale comes to mind), but this should work fine, from what I've heard from Mantic.
Ah, thanks for the clarification! The previous note about it was retool, so do you think that means they redid the sprue, and then this time around they are recutting it to add to the detail/etc?
sukura636 wrote: On the sprue, I've had a quick chat about this, and no that Ronnie has said things, I'll share a little.
Re-cut - Not re-tooling, but an additional level of cutting into and already made tool to make grooves deeper and detail sharper. I'm fairly sure there are many reasons why you can't do too many (economy of scale comes to mind), but this should work fine, from what I've heard from Mantic.
Ah, thanks for the clarification! The previous note about it was retool, so do you think that means they redid the sprue, and then this time around they are recutting it to add to the detail/etc?
Possibly. They're taking their time over this, but I get a somewhat broken view of this info. So I don't know the whole history. this was a short conversation over tea, not an interview .
Also SS - Whilst I don't know how common retooling is with a normal sprue, But, if Mantic can establish an 'acceptable quality' (to us and them), then the company at the other end will get out of it, as they get what they need to do. Plus that new, nifty contract that's more ruthless than my own.
Alpharius wrote: Has Mantic started replying to everyone who had problems with their Deadzone shipments?
Or, maybe the better questions is, WILL Mantic be replying to everyone who had problems with their Deadzone shipments, or are we just going to get the replacements and/or missing items in our second shipment boxes?
I have been trying to get a reply on missing and broken items from my last Dread Ball shipment to no avail. I'm reluctant to send in my Deadzone list until they at least acknowledge my Dread Ball list.
@cptjake: How have you contacted them? Both e-mail and KS message work for me. It is possible that it got lost in the shuffle, so maybe try both again?
Also SS - Whilst I don't know how common retooling is with a normal sprue, But, if Mantic can establish an 'acceptable quality' (to us and them), then the company at the other end will get out of it, as they get what they need to do. Plus that new, nifty contract that's more ruthless than my own.
I feel like I've seen retools (and/or possibly recuts as I knew not the difference) on many things - including didn't Mark @ Dreamforge require his APC to have some retooling done at some point? And I recall that the dakka user than went the WGF in China mentioned that every sprue goes through several revisions... ya know I think Poots posted that info too for Kingdom Death.
Also SS - Whilst I don't know how common retooling is with a normal sprue, But, if Mantic can establish an 'acceptable quality' (to us and them), then the company at the other end will get out of it, as they get what they need to do. Plus that new, nifty contract that's more ruthless than my own.
I feel like I've seen retools (and/or possibly recuts as I knew not the difference) on many things - including didn't Mark @ Dreamforge require his APC to have some retooling done at some point? And I recall that the dakka user than went the WGF in China mentioned that every sprue goes through several revisions... ya know I think Poots posted that info too for Kingdom Death.
Depends on your definition of retool.. You hope to never have to recut a tool. All the issues should have been worked out before the CnC mill touches metal. The APC is still primarily in the engineering phase, looking after undercuts, mold splits and part splits. Only the roof has made it to T1 and been cut and plastic shots made. None of my kits has seen a full retool.
Mantic is likely using a backfill mold? I cannot say for certain but many makers of PVC figs are not using standard tooling because when the PVC is hot you can rip it out of the mold, is Restic like PVC or resin? I have no idea but not matter the process, retooling is not a desired path if at all avoidable.
You can make adjustment to molds, this is not a retooling where you are re-cutting the parts but you are simply adjusting the runners vents and gates to get the mold to fill properly. When you see me talk about T1, this is the first test shots to roll off the mold. The engineers would then go back an and make adjustments to help the mold fill better.
pretre wrote: @cptjake: How have you contacted them? Both e-mail and KS message work for me. It is possible that it got lost in the shuffle, so maybe try both again?
Initially via the KS page, was told to fill out their online form. I did so. Almost 2 months ago, I have since emailed asking for a status and got no reply.
Mantic is likely using a backfill mold? I cannot say for certain but many makers of PVC figs are not using standard tooling because when the PVC is hot you can rip it out of the mold, is Restic like PVC or resin? I have no idea but not matter the process, retooling is not a desired path if at all avoidable.
You can make adjustment to molds, this is not a retooling where you are re-cutting the parts but you are simply adjusting the runners vents and gates to get the mold to fill properly. When you see me talk about T1, this is the first test shots to roll off the mold. The engineers would then go back an and make adjustments to help the mold fill better.
Hi Mark, thanks for weighing in on this
Mantic/Ronnie/we're talking about injection molding for hard plastic sprues, not restic. As the whole retool/recut/adjustment thing is a mystery to people like myself.
So the T1 - the "first tests shots" that roll off the mold, that's from a steel mold? And then those adjustments, the steel mold is then altered after the "first test shots"?
Re: Mantic's stuff, I'm not sure of the terminology being used is correct, etc (such as "retools" for the scenery sprues - were they full on retools, or recuts, or just adjustments? etc)
It is possible for a skilled manufacturer to remove a faulty section of an aluminum mold and insert a new section. I'm not sure if they can do that with steel molds. Retooling can involve such a modification, adjustment to gates, or a complete start-from-scratch.
Useful data to have when deciding what to get from the second survey.
For example, the Chovar is a good buy at KS pricing ($10 vs. $18 retail), but the helfather is better off bought at discount retail ($8 vs. $10 retail).
The BOGOF booster bundles especially are ridiculously good value compared to retail.
Say you buy 2 marauder booster bundles with your $50.. that gets you:
Oooh where do you find this? I don't see any change in the preorder at mantic, is this from another site or am I doing something wrong? ninja'd by the same post
Wow at the chovar being $18 but I guess if he's metal.. $20 for a guntrack makes me feel pretty good about the booster prices we got
Thanks for sharing
Nexus Psi... Wasn't that a kickstarter exclusive? I mean... I think they'd be stupid not to sell a campaign they've already designed (and to not design more!), backers got it free that's probably good enough, but didn't they say it was KS exclusive? Maybe my memory has grown weak with time.
GrimDork wrote: Oooh where do you find this? I don't see any change in the preorder at mantic, is this from another site or am I doing something wrong? ninja'd by the same post
Wow at the chovar being $18 but I guess if he's metal.. $20 for a guntrack makes me feel pretty good about the booster prices we got
Thanks for sharing
Nexus Psi... Wasn't that a kickstarter exclusive? I mean... I think they'd be stupid not to sell a campaign they've already designed (and to not design more!), backers got it free that's probably good enough, but didn't they say it was KS exclusive? Maybe my memory has grown weak with time.
Nope, the only KS exclusives are The Survivor, Freya, Project Oberon and Blaine.
Something else of interest is that hard plastic Enforcers do not appear on the Feb/ March retail list anywhere. Probably an April release alongside the second wave shipping.
Also, they're supposed to be updating the rulebook for the 2nd and later printings of the DZ rulebook to include corrections that have been put up on Quirkworthy. Getting a first run book means you get to hand-edit the corrections.
privateer4hire wrote: Also, they're supposed to be updating the rulebook for the 2nd and later printings of the DZ rulebook to include corrections that have been put up on Quirkworthy. Getting a first run book means you get to hand-edit the corrections.
The thing is, honestly speaking, buying into Deadzone just makes sense.
The Starter Set comes with the Rulebook, plus 2 complete sets of faction cards. - Which are effectively the 'codices' for the armies, including the booster models you don't get in the starter set, so they're the complete sets.
The Starter set contains 88-92 points of models for one faction and over 140 points for the other. The typical game size is 70 points.
This does indeed mean that the starter set is giving you *more* points for each side than you'll use in a normal game. That's a really huge deal. Even Dropzone Commander, my other current favourite starter set only gives you 1/3rd of the forces needed for a typical game, same with X Wing.
GW's starters are usually around a quarter. - Assuming you use every model, which you're probably not... I don't think I've ever seen the Helbrute used in a proper game, for example.
You get some scenery. While you probably need double what you get in the starter set for a typical game, if you've got some left over from 40k or the like (I use my LOTR scenery quite often), you're probably sorted.
With the 2' by 2' mat included in the box, you can play quite happily on, say, the kitchen table, and you won't need to faff around with taking your giant gaming board out of the shed, or assembling a realm of battle board or any of the sort.
But yeah, it's worth picking up the starter set at the very least. The other faction starters also give you a pretty good mix of units that you'd be wanting to field, without needing to look at the boosters that'll be coming out. In saying that though, usually there's at least 1 unit that'd be really, really handy in a booster.
James Hewitt from Mantic has his own Deadzone list he put up today, to tempt you further.
And then consider a faction starter gives you a generally viable force for well under the cost of a box of marines, and each faction even ordering direct from mantic tops out at less than 100 bucks for the completionist.... good times.
Yeah, i have a starter and a booster of Rebs, but nothing else. I'm increasingly getting tempted to grab the starter box (maybe i can sell the models or split the cost with a buddy) just so that I have access to all the other stuff needed to play the game.
I'm waiting to see if mantic can get their plastics right with consistant quality, if they do ill probably buy a couple of sets of enforces and forge fathers and whatever else they do
then i will probably invest in their warpath kickstarter, ive got some corporation minis as well does anyone know if they'll bring out a deck to use corp soldiers? if so count me in for deadzone the other groups dont do much for me
They had talked about doing expansions for DZ with different antagonists, something like Deadzone: Infestation with Veerymyn as the main badguys, or Deadzone: Invasion with the Z'zor. If they do those as a 1v1 set like DZ:contagion, then corporation should surely be the opposing faction. All speculation though, no promises or guarantees.
The MA kickstarter has faction decks for both the martians and human survivors, it may be possible that the later moderately well represents the marines... but surely they'll make a deck for the GCPS marines eventually, almost silly not to.
I wonder if they'll offer the marines and martians as an addon option for wave 2? Would be a nice option for those of us not interested in MA as a game in and of itself, but I'm totally down with mixing them in against Enforcers and Marauders and such!
Alpharius wrote: Has Mantic started replying to everyone who had problems with their Deadzone shipments?
Or, maybe the better questions is, WILL Mantic be replying to everyone who had problems with their Deadzone shipments, or are we just going to get the replacements and/or missing items in our second shipment boxes?
Well, I hope you get your stuff sorted out, but after my experience getting KoW sorted out (got in touch with them more than 2 weeks before MA started, but ended up getting my stuff over a month after it finished...) I wouldn't hold your breath...
I would personally recommend waiting until the second print run before picking up deadzone as a boxed game.
That way you'll get the updated rulebook with the errata and missing special rules sorted, and the hard plastic enforcers. Or get a faction starter for now if you know someone with the set.
Agree that the board size is a breath of fresh air, it is very simple to set it up on any table... all told, a game of monopoly requires more room once you take into account space for cards, money and the bank. It is probably one of the best looking games around that still fits on a dining table, so you can play it pretty much anywhere. With a bit of careful assembly, the terrain can all fit into the box itself too.
The complexity is a little too high for the typical board gamer market, but Mars Attacks is going to do extremely well at retail I think. I honestly prefer the ruleset for that a *lot* more than Deadzone, simply because it takes a knife to the complexity of the game while still keeping the core of it. And then of course, the 1-piece coloured plastic minis are going to be a very welcome break.. much like Loka it'll be a game that I won't feel bad about not painting.
That's just my preference though, I also think Dreadball is more fun without the cards/ref (for quick/ casual play anyway) and love KoW for its simplicity compared to the overcomplex warhammer.
lord_blackfang wrote: Hey everyone, remember back when ss was a raving Mantic fanboi and I was a hater? Good times. What the heck happened?
Still am. And you were never in the hater category, just in the disappointed category.
Got a pile of KoW angels (which are really nice) on my desk, a bunch of deadzone on the windowsill waiting for the fog to pass so I can glue them together and I'll probably spend a couple of hours this evening updating the battlescribe files.
I always have been pretty objective with my posts, they were just under closer scrutiny back in the days when I was one of the few people with anything positive to say about Mantic on this forum. I'd make a nice long post and then someone would typically cherry pick a single line from it that I hadn't carefully considered the exact wording of and go on a "SS = paid mantic shill" rant. If anyone is wondering why my Dakka posts have so many edits on them, this is why. Also, if anyone is wondering why I joined Dakka at around the same time as Mantic was getting popular (conspiracy abounds!), it was due to me deciding to abandon warseer completely as a result of their blanket ban of discussion of any product funded by Kickstarter (Mantic's entire model range, basically).
I always felt you were fairly well-balanced SS, you get a bit enhuisastic sometimes but we all do. At least you didn't become cynical about Mantic like I have.
lord_blackfang wrote: Hey everyone, remember back when ss was a raving Mantic fanboi and I was a hater? Good times. What the heck happened?
I always have been pretty objective with my posts, they were just under closer scrutiny back in the days when I was one of the few people with anything positive to say about Mantic on this forum. I'd make a nice long post and then someone would typically cherry pick a single line from it that I hadn't carefully considered the exact wording of and go on a "SS = paid mantic shill" rant. If anyone is wondering why my Dakka posts have so many edits on them, this is why.
No, they're still under heavy scrutiny. I honestly think you're much more objective now than earlier. And I like it. And yes, the post I just wrote in the other thread was before seeing this post of yours. Now let's all have a love-in!
SS is completely not on the Mantic Payroll. Totally untrue.
Tbh I trust the objective person more than the cynic, every time. The only thing that worries me about SS is when anyone mentions Hard Plastic. The man's obsessed!
^ Argh, you had to type that didn't you. Can't resist replying now.
It took me a month to take the mould lines off/ hot water bend my Deadzone minis (I'm painting them now, yay!). I still haven't taken the mould lines off my restic basileans after 7 months. There are 80 cavalry there, and every single one of them so far has required hot water bends on the two halves to avoid gaps. Every single sister arm needs hot water bending. I've started a mini-project of a 14-model angel army just to preserve my sanity. Ever seen a painted mass-infantry basilean army posted online other than the official pics? I sure haven't!
There are recent mantic minis that have taken me longer to clean and assemble than to paint. I will never give up the broken record on that front since the affordable hard plastics of old were what people really loved about the company.
I remember the first mantic boxes, you got a painting guide, poster (both printed on very high quality paper) and shield stickers in the box (which itself was foam lined and re-usable), everything felt really luxurious for an extremely low price. Even the sprues had superior casting quality and finer detail, better sculpts etc. than the last GW product I had bought (empire infantry, soft detail, horrible mould lines, a few sprues slung in a cardboard box). It really made me think "hang on, why the hell should I even bother with GW anymore?", and then the KoW beta sealed the deal. Fantastic free rules of superior quality to GW, great friendly company. Awesome.
I first picked up an undead box early 2010 and was just blown away by how superior the quality of the product was compared to GW, while being sold at a third of the price.
Just a bit nostalgic for those old days where, okay, Mantic only released one army every six months, but you got a real sense of a lot of care and effort having gone into the product. People might not have liked the dwarf sculpts but they did get six separate hard plastic sprues.
These days it's a bit more "rush it out the door to meet KS deadline, even if we know it's not really the quality standard we used to produce."
There is no getting away from the fact that restic costs twice as much as hard plastic and takes at least twice as long to assemble and clean. The only benefit of the material (other than easy reposing, which shouldn't be required if there is enough part variety in the first place) is that the tools are cheaper. This is a benefit to Mantic, but not a benefit to the end consumer, who would prefer lower pricing and minis that are easier to work with.
scarletsquig wrote: Also, if anyone is wondering why I joined Dakka at around the same time as Mantic was getting popular (conspiracy abounds!), it was due to me deciding to abandon warseer completely as a result of their blanket ban of discussion of any product funded by Kickstarter (Mantic's entire model range, basically).
Did they really draw that line in the sand? Ughh... I haven't been there for a few years regularly (never posted much, just lurked but their Painting and Modelling sections used to be alot better than Dakka's years ago).
Dunno about then, but Warseer presently has a ghetto subforum for crowdfunded games, just like for everything else non-GW. Nothing non-GW is allowed in the forums proper, not even 3rd party products designed for GW games.
However, intelligent sculpting/ tooling (GW character sculpts are a good example) and slide-core moulds (see Malifaux sprues) can make this a non-issue. Kingdom Death has some extremely complex sculpts that are being rendered pretty much 1:1 in hard plastic, despite that not being the original plan for the sculpts.
The slide-core tooling has actually already been used on both the goblins and men-at-arms, although for somewhat bizarre reasons (adding a peg hole in the goblin arms, adding a random hollow disc under the MAA integral bases). The Chinese company quite clearly has the tech in place, whether they have a clue about what they're doing with it is another matter it kinda feels like they were good at making plastic army men or something but then a client (Mantic) came along and required more technical expertise that they quite simply didn't have.
I think Mantic will eventually reach some sort of solution where they hire a ton of UK specialist staff to work full-time in China and get the job done right.
@warboss: Wildly off-topic (and possibly against forum rules?), so I'll just quickly mention that it got very uncomfortable for the Mantic Fanatics over there and we all left, first to a self-made forum, and then to the mantic forums after the upgrade. Any discussion beyond this sentence is best off in PM's.
scarletsquig wrote: Also, if anyone is wondering why I joined Dakka at around the same time as Mantic was getting popular (conspiracy abounds!), it was due to me deciding to abandon warseer completely as a result of their blanket ban of discussion of any product funded by Kickstarter (Mantic's entire model range, basically).
Did they really draw that line in the sand? Ughh... I haven't been there for a few years regularly (never posted much, just lurked but their Painting and Modelling sections used to be alot better than Dakka's years ago).
Yeah they did - I left at the same time. You'd go into the news and rumors and it was just this ridiculous wasteland with no new discussion - then you'd go outside to any other website and get this huge sense of excitement with everyone talking about the latest/greatest kickstarter. Absolute night/day difference. Apparently they do have a "crowdfunding" section now buried deep in the bowels of the site but that was after months and months of deleted & locked threads & warnings.
All that to say - 3 cheers to the people who update Kickstarter threads because they're often easier to get info from than the Kickstarter page!
OnTopic: Just saw the Dreadball digital editions. Looks like a really great move from Mantic. Still can't believe I missed out on the dreadball kickstarter and yet upped my pledge for more sisters and men at arms. Oy.... hindsight and all that. :p
I too long for the hard plastic halcyon days that SS refers too, I have a fully painted Mantic Undead army in excess of 400 miniatures, about 95% of it is hard plastic. It was easy to put together and a joy to paint. Like others I cannot bear to even deal with the Basilean figures in restic, just so many mould lines to get rid of on the likes of the Paladins. Others, such as my Abyssal dwarfs and Gargoyles were far less trouble.
That said I have really enjoyed my Deadzone experience. I was one of the test shipments and as a result got my stuff very early, and was missing nothing, it was just a shame that subsequent shipments let a lot of people down. But seeing the new retail release schedule has got me stoked again, even if it is mainly restic. that said the DZ restic is a large step up from most of the stuff delivered in the KOW Kickstarter.
I do think it is inevitable though that if Mantic do wish to continue to grow a reliable provider of hard plastic sprues is the way to go. I have only recently got into Maliufaux and their hard plastic kits are spectacular, the trade off is you pay for it. But given the model count for that game being similar to Deadzone maybe that higher price, higher quality, lower model count is a route that Mantic can go? I just do not know how many people would be happy to pay for it.
I think Ronnie knows the company is on the cusp (Alpharius' favorite "Almost." tagline) and the forthcoming hard plastic releases will either affirm support or drive a huge chunk of people away (probably forever).
Space Zombies
Enforcers
Peacekeepers
Asterians
Forge Fathers
Hence the delays and recutting/fixing of the sprues. He also mentioned in that Mantic Radio ep 10 that it is exactly what they are trying to go back to - all core troops for every gaming system in hard plastic with all the extra bits and bobs on the sprues for dirt cheap. So we'll all see in a few months when these sprues are shown and shipped.
judgedoug wrote: I think Ronnie knows the company is on the cusp (Alpharius' favorite "Almost." tagline) and the forthcoming hard plastic releases will either affirm support or drive a huge chunk of people away (probably forever).
Space Zombies
Enforcers
Peacekeepers
Asterians
Forge Fathers
Hence the delays and recutting/fixing of the sprues. He also mentioned in that Mantic Radio ep 10 that it is exactly what they are trying to go back to - all core troops for every gaming system in hard plastic with all the extra bits and bobs on the sprues for dirt cheap. So we'll all see in a few months when these sprues are shown and shipped.
Pretty much this. Ronnie knows that hard plastic is critical to Mantic's future, and it WILL be happening, come hell or high-water. It's a question of when, how and how much. That said, restic is here to say, for elite troops and certain larger things.
Also go and give Mantic radio a listen, it was a good episode.
I think at a rate of even 70/30 hard plastic to restic and I'd be happy enough. As long as I could do a larger portion of the project in HP, the restic is just a bit more challenging, as opposed to demoralizingly difficult for an entire project.
And hear hear to extra goodies like casualties, war pets, and so on.
Certainly no problem from me if vehicles/ large gribblies are retained in restic. The material handles them well and at a price that I like. I understand elites in the material too.
Grimdork, I think you'd be happy to see your order at this point regardless of material. I'm joking but I feel for you man.
I want to like Mantic so much but they keep metaphorically punching me in the junk when I give them my money. Regardless of any perceived awesome deal, no more Mantic Kickstarters for me. I've got enough money but would rather get something I want to keep than giving a bunch of rustic crap away or tossing a lot in the trash like I did with KoW. I still have some in the closet if anybody wants it...just pay shipping.
I think I get it in feb around the time of the retail release a wee bit later than I had hoped, but oh well. I'm actually kind of dreading it now, I've had a bit less time since we've moved and it all seems a little daunting. Was gonna get at least a strike team per faction done before returning to work, now I'll maybe get a strike team done. Maybe. But oh well, something to do after hours I guess.
agnosto wrote: Grimdork, I think you'd be happy to see your order at this point regardless of material. I'm joking but I feel for you man.
I want to like Mantic so much but they keep metaphorically punching me in the junk when I give them my money. Regardless of any perceived awesome deal, no more Mantic Kickstarters for me. I've got enough money but would rather get something I want to keep than giving a bunch of rustic crap away or tossing a lot in the trash like I did with KoW. I still have some in the closet if anybody wants it...just pay shipping.
I might be willing to take you up on that. I will shoot you a PM.
agnosto wrote: Grimdork, I think you'd be happy to see your order at this point regardless of material. I'm joking but I feel for you man.
I want to like Mantic so much but they keep metaphorically punching me in the junk when I give them my money. Regardless of any perceived awesome deal, no more Mantic Kickstarters for me. I've got enough money but would rather get something I want to keep than giving a bunch of rustic crap away or tossing a lot in the trash like I did with KoW. I still have some in the closet if anybody wants it...just pay shipping.
Don't suppose that includes any foot paladins? They're all I've really been interested in from KoW, but not enough to buy them since they're just going to sit on a shelf.
On the topic of Mantic, the forthcoming hard plastics are indeed my make/break on any large-count games from them. I like DreadBall, and would likely support that regardless but in terms of WarPath or other "big" games I'd be out. I've been burned by nearly every snafu they've had on the KickStarters I've backed (missing a decent chunk DeadZone stuff, S3 teams in metal, S2 boosters shipped late), but I'm of a more philosophical bent that I'm so very far behind on the room of shame that it's never amounted to a problem in using what I paid for.
I do have limits to my patience though, and a M@As-esque situation or more significant problems with DeadZone will probably exhaust the last of it.
agnosto wrote: Grimdork, I think you'd be happy to see your order at this point regardless of material. I'm joking but I feel for you man.
I want to like Mantic so much but they keep metaphorically punching me in the junk when I give them my money. Regardless of any perceived awesome deal, no more Mantic Kickstarters for me. I've got enough money but would rather get something I want to keep than giving a bunch of rustic crap away or tossing a lot in the trash like I did with KoW. I still have some in the closet if anybody wants it...just pay shipping.
If you're serious, done. I could use a few more units. PM on it's way
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: Certainly no problem from me if vehicles/ large gribblies are retained in restic. The material handles them well and at a price that I like. I understand elites in the material too.
I don't know. My two ork gun tracks are filled with mold lines and have really soft detail. I do not think restic is good for vehicles using these as the example.
I wish more of the Kings of War kickstarter stuff would show up on ebay. Not the proper boxed stuff, but the bags of random figures.
I would love to get me some cheap figures for the kids to play with and practice painting on.
Are the men at arms really that bad? Miniature Market had 40 of them for like, 20 dollars or something ridiculous.
On topic- I usually hate cleaning figures, but I've enjoyed my time with the Deadzone stuff.
To keep my sanity though, I've been limiting myself to one faction at a time. Maruaders at this point are totally cleaned (or as good as I'm going to get them since I'd like to start playing), Plague are almost finished cleaning (just the booster figures at this point) and some 2nd and 3rds have already started getting painted.
Saving my rebs and enforcers for a rainy day.
EDIT- How could I forget my vehicle! Ugh. My tracked vehicle looked just as bad as CaptJake's. I even had to hot water mine as it was u- shaped and the treads stuck out at an angle!
Wouldn't mind vehicles getting sprued up myself rather than restic.
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: Certainly no problem from me if vehicles/ large gribblies are retained in restic. The material handles them well and at a price that I like. I understand elites in the material too.
I don't know. My two ork gun tracks are filled with mold lines and have really soft detail. I do not think restic is good for vehicles using these as the example.
Yikes, I have never had anything as bad as that. I was kindof taking a punt on the vehicles, having never purchased any yet, maybe it is just more suitable for larger organic shapes. One thing that we are possibly all agreed upon is that with minis like that being let out of the factory then QC is certainly not where it should be.
All my Marauders are a frickin mess. The soft detail on the Enforcers is really bad. My Plague are okay, have not gotten to the rebs yet. I am still trying to find the motivation to finish the orks, the gun track and the rest of what came in that bag being the latest Fun Fest I am enduring.
I honestly can't imagine Mantic attempting to do a larger vehicle in this material and having it come out any better. Vehicles should be show pieces of an army. I don't think Mantic have it in them as a company, and am fearful of what I am going to receive with the rest of my DZ pledge and my Mars Attacks pledge, both of which have vehicles.
judgedoug wrote: I think Ronnie knows the company is on the cusp (Alpharius' favorite "Almost." tagline) and the forthcoming hard plastic releases will either affirm support or drive a huge chunk of people away (probably forever).
Space Zombies
Enforcers
Peacekeepers
Asterians
Forge Fathers
Hence the delays and recutting/fixing of the sprues. He also mentioned in that Mantic Radio ep 10 that it is exactly what they are trying to go back to - all core troops for every gaming system in hard plastic with all the extra bits and bobs on the sprues for dirt cheap. So we'll all see in a few months when these sprues are shown and shipped.
JudgeDoug, this is excellent news. Hard plastic (but not goblin type sprues if you catch my drift) are a potentially great thing.
What about stuff like the Iron Ancestors, the Robots, or the Stunt Bot?
Aren't those all going to be restic?
Anyone build any of those Iron Ancestors Mantic already released? I've been wanting to see what they're like, but I'm a cheapskate and can't find one super cheap.
The enforcers are getting a half-set of the WP ones for £10, a specialists set (sniper, ML, engineer, sentry guns) for £10 and Captain for £6.49.
I imagine the plague will get boosters for S1, S2s and S3s (dogs and humans) for similar prices. It doesn't mention if they're doing Rebs or Marauders ones.
I'm not done with Big Mech yet, but he seems pretty solid. I'll probably be wishing the second bm was hard plastic when I go to convert him... but hobby saw should do the job.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Go check out thewarstore out. They've got a page of preorders up already and I think the other factions were there.
Anyone build any of those Iron Ancestors Mantic already released? I've been wanting to see what they're like, but I'm a cheapskate and can't find one super cheap.
But yes in that Mantic Radio Ronnie specifically said hard plastic vehicles. I believe that Mars Attacks stuff is hard plastic (truck, robot, space ship). He said that the Deadzone sprues were great for the inorganic stuff but the big tests are the organics (and then went into talking about having received test sprues of the space zombies and then sending them back for some more modifications)
My own speculation and wishlisting would involve an Antenociti's Workshop and Mantic team-up (as they are already on good relations with the AW/Deadzone stuff) with AW doing the design work. (I own about 15 AW vehicles and they're my favorite sci fi vehicles on the market)
I am somewhat disappointed in the way Mantic are releasing the faction boosters as the ones shown on KS don't seem available to buy. Which means now instead of one booster you have to buy between 2 and 3 and get a load of models you may not want. Its a real disappointing way to go about it. Its the kind of thing I expect from GW not Mantic
Well you buy the Faction Starter and the Faction Boosters just add troops or specialists... what's another good way to do it? The KS versions made little sense.
scarletsquig wrote: Yep, posted full details of Feb and March releases a few pages back. Will update thread title.
Oops, didn't see that.
Splitting the releases over Feb and March will be a little easier on my wallet, and the boosters looks very reasonably priced. That said, I do think it's a little strange that they're sticking models that are already part of the starters. I can see many plague players wanting a Terraton, but having to get 3 more S2s is far less useful unless you want bigger games. Similarly, the Orx booster has duplicates and only the Hulk is new. I can't see people needing more than the Ripper suits that come in the starter; despite the fact they are awesome, I don't think using more than one of each is a good idea as they are pretty expensive.
The Rebs booster is all-new, and the Plague support one looks good (only the hounds are duplicates, and more of them never go amiss), but I can't see why you'd need 3 more S2s or Rippers. Seems an odd decision from a sales POV.
Well, if you lose the BOGO from the faction boosters, those are $50. So maybe it's a way to only get some models you *do* want as opposed to spending more than your initial buy in (faction booster) to double your models in a game that really doesn't require the numbers.
I agree that people would probably rather pick up an extra sniper solo in some cases than get the ML guy and engineer+bots.
I could see someone wanting the two ripper suits and not the hulk (or vice-versa)..but after typical retail discounts the hulk isn't costing you a whole lot either.
I can get behind not liking the marauder specialist booster as you might want more snipers or dogs, potentially not both.. and I still hate the commando sgt.
The plague and rebs stuff could do with either more combo kits, or some individual packs.
While I'm glad I won't have to pick any of these up at retail to expand my set-up, I think the lower price point and variety of the booster sets is a smart way to deploy upgrades to the core set and faction starters. After your ~$35 buy-in, you can nab another 3-5 models for another ~20 bucks, the perfect price point for your younger hobbyists or impulse shoppers IMO And enough models to swap out half or more of your current strike team, which is a pretty substantial versatility upgrade when you compare what $20 might get you in another system (half a box of almost anything GW, one large or two small Infinity models).
I really like how you can purchase separate parts of the boosters for each faction, and am eagerly awaiting doing it for my Forgefathers . For instance, I want all the stuff that comes in a booster along with a faction starter, but to have a legal squad in games of 40K I will need at least two more Valkyr bikers, which are a pretty good steal at +10 bucks apiece.
I really hope the detail and mold line issue is solidified when Forgefathers ship. I don't mind cleaning some restic, especially when the other balance of the faction will be hard plastic, but there is a reason why I regret buying into Sedition Wars, and it's not because I don't need another game in my house. Cleaning 10-12 figures is not that bad if that's all I need for a faction.
So I got some of the dreadball stuff a while back and the "restic" stuff was terrible compared to the same plastic from Privateer. Twisted, covered in huge mould lines and soft in terms of detail. Has there been any improvement with the Deadzone stuff? So far the blogs and pictures I've seen do no seem positive.
Are we still in "mixed bag" territory where a given kit might be great and another terrible?
I'm waiting patiently for another release as solid as the Mantic Undead to start buying again.
Honestly I would prefer mantic to go for plastic for troops and metal for characters.
I will be very wary about buying anything restic from mantic for a while tbh.
I am curious how Mars Attacks will turn out tbh because its supposedly the same plastic as the Gears of War board game and the miniatures in that while not designed to be wargames mini's are pretty damn good.
Anyone build any of those Iron Ancestors Mantic already released? I've been wanting to see what they're like, but I'm a cheapskate and can't find one super cheap.
I would imagine those are all restic.
I've built an iron ancestor. It had two weapon arms options, one in metal.
I painted the model as a Orx-stolen vehicle and turned the model's face upside down to help make it look even more different.
I stuck with the restic hitty and shooty arms and used the metal bit as an Orx weapon.
The base is an MDF disc, not plastic.
sukura636 wrote: SS is completely not on the Mantic Payroll. Totally untrue.
Tbh I trust the objective person more than the cynic, every time. The only thing that worries me about SS is when anyone mentions Hard Plastic. The man's obsessed!
I tend to find "the cynic" type to be pretty objective most of the time. Perhaps a little less hopeful and a little more realistic (given the way things tend to play out). Not to confuse the cynic with "the hater" though. That's a different kettle of Kroot.
I think I'd prefer characters and elites to be in restic than in metal... at least with restic the material is a lot easier to work with and you don't have to do pinning or scoring or greenstuffing just to make stuff stick together.
...wouldn't the moulds be the same anyway?
I got the 2013 xmas goodie box, and I have to say the mix of plastic and restic stuff in there made for some interesting comparisons. I got some old plastic (elven archers) which, frankly, was amazing. Those models were fantastic, went together really well, had minimal cleanup needed. Then there was new plastic (men at arms) which, well, was still good, but not *as* good. I think maybe just not a great sculpt. And then there was some WP restic and that by far required the most effort, so much cleanup needed and I'm honestly not sure the models were any better looking than the plastic ones.
scarletsquig wrote: ^ It took me a month to take the mould lines off/ hot water bend my Deadzone minis (I'm painting them now, yay!). I still haven't taken the mould lines off my restic basileans after 7 months. There are 80 cavalry there, and every single one of them so far has required hot water bends on the two halves to avoid gaps. Every single sister arm needs hot water bending. I've started a mini-project of a 14-model angel army just to preserve my sanity. Ever seen a painted mass-infantry basilean army posted online other than the official pics? I sure haven't!
There are recent mantic minis that have taken me longer to clean and assemble than to paint. I will never give up the broken record on that front since the affordable hard plastics of old were what people really loved about the company.
I remember the first mantic boxes, you got a painting guide, poster (both printed on very high quality paper) and shield stickers in the box (which itself was foam lined and re-usable), everything felt really luxurious for an extremely low price. Even the sprues had superior casting quality and finer detail, better sculpts etc. than the last GW product I had bought (empire infantry, soft detail, horrible mould lines, a few sprues slung in a cardboard box). It really made me think "hang on, why the hell should I even bother with GW anymore?", and then the KoW beta sealed the deal. Fantastic free rules of superior quality to GW, great friendly company. Awesome.
I first picked up an undead box early 2010 and was just blown away by how superior the quality of the product was compared to GW, while being sold at a third of the price.
Just a bit nostalgic for those old days where, okay, Mantic only released one army every six months, but you got a real sense of a lot of care and effort having gone into the product. People might not have liked the dwarf sculpts but they did get six separate hard plastic sprues.
These days it's a bit more "rush it out the door to meet KS deadline, even if we know it's not really the quality standard we used to produce."
There is no getting away from the fact that restic costs twice as much as hard plastic and takes at least twice as long to assemble and clean. The only benefit of the material (other than easy reposing, which shouldn't be required if there is enough part variety in the first place) is that the tools are cheaper. This is a benefit to Mantic, but not a benefit to the end consumer, who would prefer lower pricing and minis that are easier to work with.
Ahyeap. I picked up all of the DreadBall teams from the KS, but haven't played a single game due to not having the time or inclination to spend the time cleaning up all of that gakky restic. If/when I bother to get around to playing it, I'm realistically more likely to be using my Orc bloodbowl team. Because painted/better models/time/effort. I've painted a total of 6 of the KoW figures from the KS (with WIP on another 6 ogres) I think I have around 100 of them due to last minute model changing from the trolls. How many of those will I realistically ever build or paint? Also got a ton of cavalry - close to the number you have, actually. The sisters are in a box somewhere - I'll never build or paint them. Maybe spare parts for something? Maybe? Yeah, ok - probably not.
I did pick up an undead army (2 of their Undead army deals) and those guys are much better quality, even the restic cavalry (especially the cavalry?) Those guys will get painted long before I delve into most of the other Mantic stuff, but still aren't at the top of the paint queue right now.
I do think it is inevitable though that if Mantic do wish to continue to grow a reliable provider of hard plastic sprues is the way to go. I have only recently got into Maliufaux and their hard plastic kits are spectacular, the trade off is you pay for it. But given the model count for that game being similar to Deadzone maybe that higher price, higher quality, lower model count is a route that Mantic can go? I just do not know how many people would be happy to pay for it.
The thing with that is that Ronnie (and Mantic) have stated many times that their "endgame" is easy to play, affordable, truly massive tabletop battles. To this end, hard plastic is the kinf of long-term option that's far better for both the company and the end consumer. They just need to be smarter with their models, and I suspect that GW-style multi-unit sprue boxes in hard plastic is the best option, so why they're not going for it still boggles the mind.
Sprues in HIPS of <insert race here> models with separate arms (not fething lego hands) for spears, sword and board (board also usable with shields), 2-handers, missile option (bow/xbow as appropriate) and 2-3 head options (for the different units), a couple of additional armour pieces plus a command sprue with standard options, musician options, champion weapon options, and even more fancy heads.
They would need to find a company that can pack bits into a sprue, GW-style - but then they'd only need one boxed set per race for several types of basic infantry. And it would kick so much arse.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
judgedoug wrote: Just saw this on their Facebook. Someone asked about the fancy new interactive Dreadball book/app for iPad/iPhone/tablets/ereaders/webapp in comparison to the pre-existing pdf's from Wargames Vault and they said
"This is going to be a different product to the Wargame Vault pdfs - it's designed from the ground up with tablets and smartphones in mind, and has loads of bells and whistles. However, we're going to give everyone who bought a DreadBall rulebook through WGV a discount equal to the what they've already paid "
Good form, Mantic.
Heh. Nice way to say "Kickstarter backers won't be getting this one, sorry!"
sukura636 wrote: That said, restic is here to say, for elite troops and certain larger things.
Great, because I want my special characters and elite troops to have really really hard to remove mold lines across their faces.
CptJake wrote: All my Marauders are a frickin mess. The soft detail on the Enforcers is really bad. My Plague are okay, have not gotten to the rebs yet. I am still trying to find the motivation to finish the orks, the gun track and the rest of what came in that bag being the latest Fun Fest I am enduring.
I honestly can't imagine Mantic attempting to do a larger vehicle in this material and having it come out any better. Vehicles should be show pieces of an army. I don't think Mantic have it in them as a company, and am fearful of what I am going to receive with the rest of my DZ pledge and my Mars Attacks pledge, both of which have vehicles.
See, this sort of thing makes me want to buy things like the rules from Mantic for their games, maybe scenery, and then stick with my existing GW/Rackham collection of models, supplemented by things like Hasslefree, Kromlech, Victoria, RaginShiroz, etc - rather than using actual Mantic models.
Mantic need to go back to hard plastic they started out with. Especially because their goal is for the most part to build big army's. Obviously this applies a little less to Deadzone.
Thing is say what you like about the mantic elves or dwarfs from a design standpoint (I like the elves skinny faye like design some dont) but in terms of how the end model turned out on the sprue the moulding is fantastic.
carlos13th wrote: Mantic need to go back to hard plastic they started out with. Especially because their goal is for the most part to build big army's. Obviously this applies a little less to Deadzone.
Thing is say what you like about the mantic elves or dwarfs from a design standpoint (I like the elves skinny faye like design some dont) but in terms of how the end model turned out on the sprue the moulding is fantastic.
It's because those early plastics are Renedra, before Renedra got backed up and Mantic discovered Kickstarter and a taste for Chinese restic and skinny leg models.
P.s. folks interested in my KoW stuff; I'll post it later in the week. I'm a bit busy until Thursday.
Have some elves I started painting and will probably add to them and make a full elf army once I both have the cash have done the Samurai I am slowly working on.
I've got a bunck of KoW stuff I'd sell cheap to any interested party.
A bunch of Ogres and other bits and bobs.
PM me if interested!
On topic here - yes, more 'real' plastic and less 'restic', please.
I suppose it is encouraging to read that Ronnie and company realize that this is the only way for the future on Mantic, and I know that 'hard plastic' is the only thing I'll be buying from them in any quantity anymore.
And that is ONLY if the 'hard plastic' Enforcers, Space Zombie, etc. from Deadzone turn out well.
judgedoug wrote: Just saw this on their Facebook. Someone asked about the fancy new interactive Dreadball book/app for iPad/iPhone/tablets/ereaders/webapp in comparison to the pre-existing pdf's from Wargames Vault and they said
"This is going to be a different product to the Wargame Vault pdfs - it's designed from the ground up with tablets and smartphones in mind, and has loads of bells and whistles. However, we're going to give everyone who bought a DreadBall rulebook through WGV a discount equal to the what they've already paid "
Good form, Mantic.
Heh. Nice way to say "Kickstarter backers won't be getting this one, sorry!"
Well, I mean, why would we? It wasn't part of the Kickstarter. I feel I have about as much right to getting it for 'free' was I would the new Dreadball scenario pack thing.
judgedoug wrote: Just saw this on their Facebook. Someone asked about the fancy new interactive Dreadball book/app for iPad/iPhone/tablets/ereaders/webapp in comparison to the pre-existing pdf's from Wargames Vault and they said
"This is going to be a different product to the Wargame Vault pdfs - it's designed from the ground up with tablets and smartphones in mind, and has loads of bells and whistles. However, we're going to give everyone who bought a DreadBall rulebook through WGV a discount equal to the what they've already paid "
Good form, Mantic.
Heh. Nice way to say "Kickstarter backers won't be getting this one, sorry!"
Well, I mean, why would we? It wasn't part of the Kickstarter. I feel I have about as much right to getting it for 'free' was I would the new Dreadball scenario pack thing.
While it would be nice to have (free bonus besides all our other free bonuses we got!), I don't feel cheated because we aren't getting it.
I don't mind restic at all. I just want good restic where extra attention is paid not to get heat-twisted casts, mould lines on the worst possible spot and a variety of other issues with the material that Mantic seems to have but Privateer does not.
At least with hard plastic though, if they screw up on the mould design and have mould lines destroying detail, it's way, way easier to salvage.
Yep. I'm really not sure how many times this has been re-iterated, but everyone agrees, including Mantic. Which is why they're doing it. This sort of thing doesn't happen overnight, you know.
If I were Mantic, I'd be trying to get that Plague zombie sprue finalized and ready to show backers BEFORE sending out the second survey. I'm hearing a lot of gloom and doom here, but if that zombie sprue turns out great, they're going to get a lot more second survey orders.
Vermonter wrote: If I were Mantic, I'd be trying to get that Plague zombie sprue finalized and ready to show backers BEFORE sending out the second survey. I'm hearing a lot of gloom and doom here, but if that zombie sprue turns out great, they're going to get a lot more second survey orders.
Agreed. I'm happy with the first 4 factions so I'll get the other 2 in any case, but if the hard plastic sprues turn out well, then, well... I could see myself ordering loads.
Yep. I'm really not sure how many times this has been re-iterated, but everyone agrees, including Mantic. Which is why they're doing it. This sort of thing doesn't happen overnight, you know.
Yeah, this needs to be reiterated every page. Three people bring it up, someone points out that Ronnie knows and Mantic is attempting to address it, someone doesn't read that and posts again about how they wish Mantic would go back to hard plastic, starting another chain reaction including "I don't like restic", "something was a disappointment", "I like restic better than metal", "I wish Mantic would realize they need to do plastic again". I think we actually have one real news/rumor about once every five pages, haha.
Well, that's the biggest thing with Mantic at this point, isn't it?
Their ideas are clearly great, it's just execution.
They're like a local restaurant that has great stuff on their menu, and is cheap, but the service is lousy, the food often wrong, and a lot of dishes come out bland.
The fact that it keeps coming up means that maybe Mantic themselves should do a better job of communicating it - possibly even through Official Channels, Updates, etc.!
And it's becoming clearer that Mantic is shutting itself off from normal communication channels, at least based on people's posts here.
What mantic should be doing is rolling out articles, videos, and podcasts that actually help people use their product. Examples:
1) a visual checklist for all parts, so backers can inventory their boxes
2) assembly guides, explaining what parts go where
3) Videos on the hot water method, gap filling, and other tricks to overcome the limits of restic
Instead, we hear about another bloody kickstarter. I'm getting tired of hoping the next stuff will be good. I want to make the best out of what I have, and I'd like it if Mantic did something to help that out.
Polonius wrote: And it's becoming clearer that Mantic is shutting itself off from normal communication channels, at least based on people's posts here.
What mantic should be doing is rolling out articles, videos, and podcasts that actually help people use their product. Examples: 1) a visual checklist for all parts, so backers can inventory their boxes 2) assembly guides, explaining what parts go where 3) Videos on the hot water method, gap filling, and other tricks to overcome the limits of restic
Instead, we hear about another bloody kickstarter. I'm getting tired of hoping the next stuff will be good. I want to make the best out of what I have, and I'd like it if Mantic did something to help that out.
Interestingly enough I just heard back from Mantic thanks to a staff email I got via PM. I had sent an inquiry this morning.
Due to the holiday period we are running a little behind on emails, I'll get back to you as soon as posible.
In the meantime, here's a quick FAQ:
- I’ve got some missing pieces in my order! What do I do?
- Please complete an Order Query Form so we know all the details. We'll be looking over these in January and sorting them all out. http://bit.ly/1dyMkWa
So, 22 days into January and I still get the automated 'we're on vacation, use the form and we'll get back with you' email. Nice. Of course my inquiry has to do with the form I filled out at their request in early December.
feth a return to hard plastics, how about a return to basic customer service practices?
Polonius wrote: And it's becoming clearer that Mantic is shutting itself off from normal communication channels, at least based on people's posts here.
What mantic should be doing is rolling out articles, videos, and podcasts that actually help people use their product. Examples:
1) a visual checklist for all parts, so backers can inventory their boxes
2) assembly guides, explaining what parts go where
3) Videos on the hot water method, gap filling, and other tricks to overcome the limits of restic
Instead, we hear about another bloody kickstarter. I'm getting tired of hoping the next stuff will be good. I want to make the best out of what I have, and I'd like it if Mantic did something to help that out.
Credit where its due. Assembly guides are definitely required and wouldn't have even taken much work to do.
If you want to ask Mantic anything, facebook is the best way to get in touch, and you can often pick up info from there that isn't posted anywhere else. Here's some info from James that is probably worth relaying:
James M Hewitt wrote: Confusion everywhere!
The hard plastic Enforcers are still a WIP. Things are looking good, but it's too early to say 100% for certain! In any case, they're not due for ages - these are available in the meantime. Of what's available, the Captain and Specialists will stay in Restic; the basic troopers will hopefully go to Hard Plastic, along with the Peacekeepers.
As I said, though, nothing's set in stone!
I think I'll try to cross-post anything I see from a staffer that might be of interest to people here, see how it goes, I use FB a lot more than I used to and have joined all the active Mantic groups that I'm aware of.
The hard plastic Enforcers are still a WIP. Things are looking good, but it's too early to say 100% for certain! In any case, they're not due for ages - these are available in the meantime. Of what's available, the Captain and Specialists will stay in Restic; the basic troopers will hopefully go to Hard Plastic, along with the Peacekeepers.
After chatting to Ronnie/Mantic, I've been asked to relay that the progress of Hard Plastic enforcers(etc) will be made and made public soon, with a full update, and more info on the way afterwards. All before the Survey Two deadline.
Repeating - you'll know whether or not Hard Plastics are go before the Survey Two Deadline.
And even if the result is in the negative, Mantic will still be pursuing Hard Plastics with fervour.
Does anyone know if there's anything extra in the faction starters from Kickstarter vs retail? Currently the only one I'm lacking is the Astarians, but it looks like its $35 to add it in the second pledge manager, and all the starters are $35 retail, so it will be cheaper to just get it at release for me from any discounter. The Stunbot/strider/iron ancestors also look to be better to buy retail. Thanks!
frozenwastes wrote: I don't mind restic at all. I just want good restic where extra attention is paid not to get heat-twisted casts, mould lines on the worst possible spot and a variety of other issues with the material that Mantic seems to have but Privateer does not.
At least with hard plastic though, if they screw up on the mould design and have mould lines destroying detail, it's way, way easier to salvage.
If you have bought any recent plastic kits from PP lately, you would know how wrong you are.
Their plastics are no better than Mantic's.
The new Trollblood Warders, for example, have horrible mold lines on the heads.
Or any of the Convergence warjack and infantry kits.
And many of their plastic kits have the tears and twists from sprue removal.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: Does anyone know if there's anything extra in the faction starters from Kickstarter vs retail? Currently the only one I'm lacking is the Astarians, but it looks like its $35 to add it in the second pledge manager, and all the starters are $35 retail, so it will be cheaper to just get it at release for me from any discounter. The Stunbot/strider/iron ancestors also look to be better to buy retail. Thanks!
But it's $50 for any two faction starters through Kickstarter, so ask around your group if someone wants to go halfsies with you and you could still save money.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: Does anyone know if there's anything extra in the faction starters from Kickstarter vs retail? Currently the only one I'm lacking is the Astarians, but it looks like its $35 to add it in the second pledge manager, and all the starters are $35 retail, so it will be cheaper to just get it at release for me from any discounter. The Stunbot/strider/iron ancestors also look to be better to buy retail. Thanks!
But it's $50 for any two faction starters through Kickstarter, so ask around your group if someone wants to go halfsies with you and you could still save money.
Are all the faction starters 2 for $50? Or just the asterian/FF bundle?
Doesn't help a bit if the following is more recent, and I think it is:
James M Hewitt wrote: Confusion everywhere!
The hard plastic Enforcers are still a WIP. Things are looking good, but it's too early to say 100% for certain! In any case, they're not due for ages - these are available in the meantime. Of what's available, the Captain and Specialists will stay in Restic; the basic troopers will hopefully go to Hard Plastic, along with the Peacekeepers.
Ronnie Renton wrote:If it is not up to the quality we expect, I will keep all those kits in resin plastic as was originally planned in the Kickstarter, and we will put the Peacekeepers into Resin Plastic as well. If anyone has added extras because they were hard plastic we will of course offer the option of exchanging those for other items or a refund. I don't expect any of that will be the case, but I just want to cover all the bases.
The update stated that if hard plastic doesn't work out, they're tooling everything in restic, including the peacekeepers and plague zombies, and offering refunds to anyone who bought peacekeepers/ plague zombies assuming they would be hard plastic.
James is basically saying the same thing that Ronnie said. It might work out, it might not. They don't know yet, there has been no change in status to report as of yet.
As for a timescale, one thing is probably certain... if we don't hear anything before Chinese New Year (Jan 31st), we definitely won't hear anything until after it is over (17th Feb). So, if the end of the month deadline slips, Mantic will be left waiting a little longer before they're able to let us know what's going on.
Ronnie Renton wrote:If it is not up to the quality we expect, I will keep all those kits in resin plastic as was originally planned in the Kickstarter, and we will put the Peacekeepers into Resin Plastic as well. If anyone has added extras because they were hard plastic we will of course offer the option of exchanging those for other items or a refund. I don't expect any of that will be the case, but I just want to cover all the bases.
The update stated that if hard plastic doesn't work out, they're tooling everything in restic, including the peacekeepers and plague zombies, and offering refunds to anyone who bought peacekeepers/ plague zombies assuming they would be hard plastic.
James is basically saying the same thing that Ronnie said. It might work out, it might not. They don't know yet, there has been no change in status to report as of yet.
As for a timescale, one thing is probably certain... if we don't hear anything before Chinese New Year (Jan 31st), we definitely won't hear anything until after it is over (17th Feb). So, if the end of the month deadline slips, Mantic will be left waiting a little longer before they're able to let us know what's going on.
IF it doesn't work out, I'm definitely taking the 'refund' option.
judgedoug wrote: I think the second survey runs through the end of March with a May ship date?
They could easily get hard plastics in time to ship - remember, ALL the plastic Deadzone terrain was airfreighted to Mantic, not slow-boat.
But what if they have to tool for restic?
And would we have the chance to opt out of restic prior to them shipping if the surveys are already closed?
What does this mean for the plastics other than enforcers and zombies?
I'm honestly curious as to what the real plan is, not just trying to be a pain in the booty.
Oh, I would assume that Ronnie's quote "If it is not up to the quality we expect, I will keep all those kits in resin plastic as was originally planned in the Kickstarter, and we will put the Peacekeepers into Resin Plastic as well. If anyone has added extras because they were hard plastic we will of course offer the option of exchanging those for other items or a refund. I don't expect any of that will be the case, but I just want to cover all the bases." would apply.
That annoys me since a big part of why I went in was the plastic FF's. Hopefully they get this worked out but the fact that it isn't worked out on a single unit yet out of the 5 units they were going to provide in plastic is a little worrying since they were supposed to have this stuff out in the second quarter but I guess we'll see
judgedoug wrote: I think the second survey runs through the end of March with a May ship date?
They could easily get hard plastics in time to ship - remember, ALL the plastic Deadzone terrain was airfreighted to Mantic, not slow-boat.
But what if they have to tool for restic?
And would we have the chance to opt out of restic prior to them shipping if the surveys are already closed?
What does this mean for the plastics other than enforcers and zombies?
I'm honestly curious as to what the real plan is, not just trying to be a pain in the booty.
If enforcers are tooled for restic, then they'll sent out as normal, as far as I can see. Any issues with your order, you should be able to contact Mantic to sort things out.
As for non-KS plastics, Mantic are still determined to get things going, so we'll see what the future holds there. DZ plastics belong to Schrodinger right now - either Plastic or Restic. It might be worth adding a comment in your survey 2 stating which side of the fence you are on, to be safe.
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Hulksmash wrote: That annoys me since a big part of why I went in was the plastic FF's. Hopefully they get this worked out but the fact that it isn't worked out on a single unit yet out of the 5 units they were going to provide in plastic is a little worrying since they were supposed to have this stuff out in the second quarter but I guess we'll see
I really want plastic forge fathers!
They're using plague zombies to test the process. If it works on them, it works on anything. Meanwhile, sculpting on the other sets is still going on, regardless.
Hulksmash wrote: That annoys me since a big part of why I went in was the plastic FF's. Hopefully they get this worked out but the fact that it isn't worked out on a single unit yet out of the 5 units they were going to provide in plastic is a little worrying since they were supposed to have this stuff out in the second quarter but I guess we'll see
I really want plastic forge fathers!
Me too (I want hard plastic everything). I would assume, going by Ronnie recently discussing the almost done space zombies and James talking about the Enforcers, we'll see something soon. And anyways if the ship date is May there's still time, especially if Mantic airfreights these too. I mean, Mantic isn't known for being late on KS but hard plastic was one of those things that just a few pages ago everyone was saying it's worth delaying over, and I agree. Is there anyone who thinks Mantic should rush hard plastic and them be Men-At-Arms quality, or possibly take a little longer and have them be Orcs/Elves/Undead quality? And we all don't even know for sure what the current status is - so perhaps asking Mantic to do a DZ update with pictures or at least info about the hard plastic stuff wouldn't be too awful (or at least someone asking James to check this thread again) And honestly knowing Mantic they'll throw in more free stuff (they gave everyone free Goblin Fleabags and Dwarf Brock Riders when a chunk of the KoWKs was delayed a bit), as they normally deliver early.
If enforcers are tooled for restic, then they'll sent out as normal, as far as I can see. Any issues with your order, you should be able to contact Mantic to sort things out.
My worry is, if they have not decided on restic or plastic yet, the restic tooling and then the production may not be done in time without delaying the wave 2 shipment. Them rushing restic production is an even scarier proposition.
As for contacting Mantic with order issues... I've done so via several mechanisms including the 'fill in the online form' they directed me to do about 2 months ago for a Dread Ball delivery. I've inquired about it multiple times since submitting their form. And gotten ZERO replies as of today. Contacting them with order issues is a frustrating experience.
If enforcers are tooled for restic, then they'll sent out as normal, as far as I can see.
Yeah don't forget all Enforcers were supposed to be restic - it wasn't even a stretch goal. It was just a post-KS announcement that they believe they could do it in hard plastic. If it fails horribly then people will get the original DZ-style Enforcers in restic.
For instance I added on a ton of restic Enforcers, including individual poses. So I have no idea how many I'm suppose to get if the hard plastic works out.
Hulksmash wrote: That annoys me since a big part of why I went in was the plastic FF's. Hopefully they get this worked out but the fact that it isn't worked out on a single unit yet out of the 5 units they were going to provide in plastic is a little worrying since they were supposed to have this stuff out in the second quarter but I guess we'll see
I really want plastic forge fathers!
Me too (I want hard plastic everything). I would assume, going by Ronnie recently discussing the almost done space zombies and James talking about the Enforcers, we'll see something soon. And anyways if the ship date is May there's still time, especially if Mantic airfreights these too. I mean, Mantic isn't known for being late on KS but hard plastic was one of those things that just a few pages ago everyone was saying it's worth delaying over, and I agree. Is there anyone who thinks Mantic should rush hard plastic and them be Men-At-Arms quality, or possibly take a little longer and have them be Orcs/Elves/Undead quality? And we all don't even know for sure what the current status is - so perhaps asking Mantic to do a DZ update with pictures or at least info about the hard plastic stuff wouldn't be too awful (or at least someone asking James to check this thread again) And honestly knowing Mantic they'll throw in more free stuff (they gave everyone free Goblin Fleabags and Dwarf Brock Riders when a chunk of the KoWKs was delayed a bit), as they normally deliver early.
*Cough* Scroll up read my news post (okay its on the previous page). Update is coming soon.
After chatting to Ronnie/Mantic, I've been asked to relay that the progress of Hard Plastic enforcers(etc) will be made and made public soon, with a full update, and more info on the way afterwards. All before the Survey Two deadline.
Repeating - you'll know whether or not Hard Plastics are go before the Survey Two Deadline.
And even if the result is in the negative, Mantic will still be pursuing Hard Plastics with fervour.
If enforcers are tooled for restic, then they'll sent out as normal, as far as I can see. Any issues with your order, you should be able to contact Mantic to sort things out.
My worry is, if they have not decided on restic or plastic yet, the restic tooling and then the production may not be done in time without delaying the wave 2 shipment. Them rushing restic production is an even scarier proposition.
As for contacting Mantic with order issues... I've done so via several mechanisms including the 'fill in the online form' they directed me to do about 2 months ago for a Dread Ball delivery. I've inquired about it multiple times since submitting their form. And gotten ZERO replies as of today. Contacting them with order issues is a frustrating experience.
Yes, to be honest it's seems like they either don't care or are deliberately delaying for some reason. The first reply I got to Dreadball last year was that my missing bits would be sent out ASAP, got nothing then filled out the form, got nothing, now fill out the form again? Mystery Mantic.
Well they did say they'd be dealing with replacements/missing bits in January for Deadzone and since it's still January they've got time
(especially since it's clear they were running out of everything and probably need to wait for the new stock intended to go into the retail chain to arrive)
But those who are waiting on Dreadball bit's I'd try chasing them up on facebook (it worked for me)
I personally haven't had any problems getting replacement bits, I was dealing with Sarah Clark for Nov/Dec as she was hired as their dedicated Cust Svc person; hopefully she didn't quit or something due to the volume of complaints! haha
judgedoug wrote: I personally haven't had any problems getting replacement bits, I was dealing with Sarah Clark for Nov/Dec as she was hired as their dedicated Cust Svc person; hopefully she didn't quit or something due to the volume of complaints! haha
She is the one who told me to fill out the form. Which I did. Emailing her today got the "I'm on holiday" auto reply I partially quoted earlier today. Part of that auto reply is a referral to the form.
frozenwastes wrote: I don't mind restic at all. I just want good restic where extra attention is paid not to get heat-twisted casts, mould lines on the worst possible spot and a variety of other issues with the material that Mantic seems to have but Privateer does not.
At least with hard plastic though, if they screw up on the mould design and have mould lines destroying detail, it's way, way easier to salvage.
If you have bought any recent plastic kits from PP lately, you would know how wrong you are.
Their plastics are no better than Mantic's.
The new Trollblood Warders, for example, have horrible mold lines on the heads.
Or any of the Convergence warjack and infantry kits.
And many of their plastic kits have the tears and twists from sprue removal.
I must have just been really lucky, but I assemebled a 50 point convergence army for a friend and has no issues at all. Not a single piece needed heat treating and all the mould lines where on edges or flat plans and were easy to remove.
judgedoug wrote: I personally haven't had any problems getting replacement bits, I was dealing with Sarah Clark for Nov/Dec as she was hired as their dedicated Cust Svc person; hopefully she didn't quit or something due to the volume of complaints! haha
She is the one who told me to fill out the form. Which I did. Emailing her today got the "I'm on holiday" auto reply I partially quoted earlier today. Part of that auto reply is a referral to the form.
This is called the Manticloop, a quantum space-time anomaly very similar to the one encountered in the episode of Star Trek TNG "Cause and Effect". However, hopefully you won't be caught in it for 80 years like the USS Bozeman.
So while they're buggering about trying to sort out whether they can do actual plastic or not, what's happening with all the missing/incorrect deadzone orders?
frozenwastes wrote: I don't mind restic at all. I just want good restic where extra attention is paid not to get heat-twisted casts, mould lines on the worst possible spot and a variety of other issues with the material that Mantic seems to have but Privateer does not.
At least with hard plastic though, if they screw up on the mould design and have mould lines destroying detail, it's way, way easier to salvage.
If you have bought any recent plastic kits from PP lately, you would know how wrong you are.
Their plastics are no better than Mantic's.
The new Trollblood Warders, for example, have horrible mold lines on the heads.
Or any of the Convergence warjack and infantry kits.
And many of their plastic kits have the tears and twists from sprue removal.
I must have just been really lucky, but I assemebled a 50 point convergence army for a friend and has no issues at all. Not a single piece needed heat treating and all the mould lines where on edges or flat plans and were easy to remove.
Wish I could say the same. I'm in the middle of a huge CoC commission (2-3 of every 'Jack, unit, and solo, plus all the Warcasters) and the restic 'Jack kits have been...unpleasant to work with. The large cogs on the weapons on the Inverter and Monitor have huge mold lines/slippage running right smack through the middle, and the spokes/tines of the cogs are sunken in like not enough material was used.The there are weird, deep-set swirls of restic on the front end of the Ciphers' weapons, and weird indentations/bumps pretty much everywhere else, and the usual badly-place mold lines. I've had pretty much the same cascade of problems like I just listed on EVERY restic PP model I've worked on, with the exception of the RoS heavies.
I'm no huge fan of PP restic either. I wouldn't say anything was as bad as my DZ rebs, but their casting quality is not notably higher then the better mantic stuff I've gotten.
Wish I could say the same. I'm in the middle of a huge CoC commission (2-3 of every 'Jack, unit, and solo, plus all the Warcasters) and the restic 'Jack kits have been...unpleasant to work with. The large cogs on the weapons on the Inverter and Monitor have huge mold lines/slippage running right smack through the middle, and the spokes/tines of the cogs are sunken in like not enough material was used.The there are weird, deep-set swirls of restic on the front end of the Ciphers' weapons, and weird indentations/bumps pretty much everywhere else, and the usual badly-place mold lines. I've had pretty much the same cascade of problems like I just listed on EVERY restic PP model I've worked on, with the exception of the RoS heavies.
That sucks. Though it's entirely possible my good experience with the Convergence jacks are the result of them being the ones pre-sold at the lock & load tournament. So they would have been part of a small run and likely with fresh moulds.
So I guess I'm going to have to admit I'm wrong on this one. It seems like inconsistent and crappy results is the norm with this material.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So while they're buggering about trying to sort out whether they can do actual plastic or not, what's happening with all the missing/incorrect deadzone orders?
I'd imagine they have a bunch of lists waiting for new stock to arrive along with all the stuff they need for their main retail release
Once they stock arrives they'll get on with sending stuff out (and based on my dreadball experience stuff will just arrive in the mailbox as there's no cost effective way to do tracking especially on international orders)
Sending out the missing stuff may take some time, according to a poll on the Mantic forums, around 70% of shipped orders have something wrong with them. It'll take them a while if there's 2-3k people to sort out. Of course there will be quite a lot of people who don't bother to check for missing parts inside the bags, I know I definitely didn't bother with the KoWKS.
I just filled out the form for missing parts (nothing major for me, one minor bag mixup, and one missing flying stand for a rebs drone).
It's another point in favour of hard plastic, easier to package and inventory a bunch of sprues rather than hundreds of tiny bags with hundreds of tiny pieces in them.
Plus, with sprues you don't tend to get the variance of mould lines/ warping etc. that is native to restic.
You'll notice that people tend to either say that the flash is utterly horrible, or that it was fine and they don't know what everyone else is whinging about. The thing is.. both those people can be 100% correct with their statements, since the casting quality is all over the place. To some extent it depends on if you got lucky or not or how busy/ tired/ bored the caster over in China was while doing your particular batch... the human labour element involved adds variance to the quality. Certainly Dreadball suffered a lot from rush-job restic, KoW wave 3 was delayed, but better quality.
Anyway, I'm not sure if anyone still isn't aware, but Dreadball Extreme KS is coming very soon, possibly in 5-6 weeks time.
pretre wrote: I guess the 'if the poll is representative' part is the big deal. In customer service, poor experiences always are louder than good ones.
Though I agree that the folks who took part in that poll are probably not a good sample, Mantic's customer service seems about as strong as a soup sandwich soaked in milk.
pretre wrote: I guess the 'if the poll is representative' part is the big deal. In customer service, poor experiences always are louder than good ones.
Though I agree that the folks who took part in that poll are probably not a good sample, Mantic's customer service seems about as strong as a soup sandwich soaked in milk.
That comes back to who you talk to though. I've never had a problem with them and they are always pretty responsive to my inquiries. Heck, when I told them I was missing my Dreadball dude from DZ, they got back to me in hours (on the KS message system) well before I figured out that he had fallen under the chair in my garage and wasn't actually missing.
True different folks have different experiences and you generally only hear about the experiences that are not so good.
My Deadzone pack was one of the last shipped so it's missing a few bits but every one is noted on the packing slip as shipping in wave 2 so that's covered. I got 21 battlezones in wave 1 and they are correct to the last sprue which I was seriously impressed by (that's over 160 sprues) I expected at least 1 or 2 to be wrong - I didn't get any accessory sprues but it's noted on the packing slip. All of the miniatures are present and accounted for nothing missing at all. The mold lines are hit and miss some have next to none some are fairly bad even on the same models. I've put the Plague and Rebs together no major issues a few fiddley bits to clean up the Terraton took the longest time. The Marauders are still in the box I still don't like the models so they will stay there forever more and I'm not touching the Enforcers until (if) the hard plastics arrive. I really hope the hard plastics work out I don't mind restic too much but give me hard plastic any day if it's an option.
As for Dreadball I was missing the arms off a Void Siren Jack they sent me an entire Void Siren team as a replacement now I did say that they could wait until wave 3 shipping to send it to me which they did and they remember several months later.
If I must grumble metal season 3 boosters, dodgy backer MvPs and integrated bases that are a lot of work to remove models from - there good with the bad
One last thing I'll say on the packing issue is Mantic have left themselves very open to being ripped off by unscrupulous types with the reported high rate of shipping mess ups anyone can pretty much apply for anything (on their order) as "missing" (whether it is or isn't) and Mantic pretty much have to send more - it's a very tiny precentage will do this but some will.
One last thing I'll say on the packing issue is Mantic have left themselves very open to being ripped off by unscrupulous types with the reported high rate of shipping mess ups anyone can pretty much apply for anything (on their order) as "missing" (whether it is or isn't) and Mantic pretty much have to send more - it's a very tiny precentage will do this but some will.
This a million times. I think they're aware of this but the simple way in which they just seemed to sling baggies into boxes and think that it'd be right is just a continuation of the entire half-arsed business practices that they seem to be committed to now. It also doesn't bode well that people who are buying retail are reporting missing items...
What happened to the people saying "Don't back the kickstarter if you don't understand the risk" and faulty product and no refunds should be accepted when you "are getting at the price you are getting it at."
I thought people who expected undamaged, correctly packed product of exactly what they ordered with actual human responses to their emails were unreasonable?
They need to invest in a Customer relations system real quick so every email inquiry opens a ticket which can be tracked so people feel like they are heard and not sending stuff to a black hole. Seeing people have to email 3-4 different locations to get a response is terrible.
Yeah, I'm just wrapping up assembling things and thought I had everything on the survey. Then as I assembled some plague I found they had mixed up the extra parts with a Marauder bag so I have 3 plague without proper heads. Given that this was the box that they left out the rest of the Plague and Enforcer specialists, whoever did the packing of that box did a terrible job.
I assume I should submit another survey to Mantic or should I email someone to have it amended? I did put in a 2nd survey earlier because I wasn't sure if my Enforcer bonus should have been there (and if it was to have been there, it wasn't) but I don't recall if that's been said or not.
Krinsath wrote: Yeah, I'm just wrapping up assembling things and thought I had everything on the survey. Then as I assembled some plague I found they had mixed up the extra parts with a Marauder bag so I have 3 plague without proper heads. Given that this was the box that they left out the rest of the Plague and Enforcer specialists, whoever did the packing of that box did a terrible job.
I assume I should submit another survey to Mantic or should I email someone to have it amended? I did put in a 2nd survey earlier because I wasn't sure if my Enforcer bonus should have been there (and if it was to have been there, it wasn't) but I don't recall if that's been said or not.
I wound up with two surveys for the same reason and just noted it in the comments field. It's not like I'll actually get the two missing arms and 1 missing head....but hey, you never know.
I carefully tallied up everything and filled out the survey: all I'm missing is my Dreadball MVP, 2x Marauder Pyros, the head from one human rebs missile team, and the little communications dish you can put on the shoulder of a Ripper Suit.
On the other hand, after figuring out what I should have gotten based on what I backed for, I ended up with these extras (unless I'm wrong, Strike team + booster bundle for every faction):
1st Gen, 3x 3rd Gen w/ rifle, 3rd Gen w/ HMG Field Commander
Commando Captain, 2x Commandos
I guess I should start picking the difference between the general Deadzone thread and the Mantic rumours thread a little bit better
One thing that I think massively confused things were the 'bonuses' for the Booster Bundle - the set of extra specialists from the faction starters that you got in addition to the 2x Boosters.
So for the plague, you got 3 more 2nd Gens and 2 plague dogs - but because those troops are normally contained in a bag with the 1st gen, you get one of those too. Rebs Teraton, grogen and drones? Have an extra commander. Same with the Marauders and the dogs/snipers.
So while I'm sure this was completely intentional (it makes much more sense giving out standard bags rather than re-packing them), nobody was officially told about this, and it made tracking what you *should* have received even harder! Not that I especially mind having extra stuff...
pretre wrote: Is that true? I hope that continues for second survey.
I was just thinking "If that's the case I might snag a couple of Plague boosters..." just because the G1 Plague is pretty awesome and so are the Plague Teratons. Of course the gorilla in the room is the hard plastic kits. Obviously we won't hear anything for a little while with Chinese New Year keeping their supplier closed, but that's a big question mark for me on if I'm going to get much more since I already have a shedload. Hopefully we'll get good news on the plastic models front. If not, I might snag more terrain instead. Get some more fortifications and landing pad sprues...
Most of the money I spend (if any) on the second survey will be going to plastic is the take-away of this short seminar.
I imagine the extras are there because it was the most economical way to arrange models in the molds and it's more cost effective to just dump everything from one mold into a single baggie and give use some freebies than it is to pick out all the bits for the 1-2 models that shouldn't be in there.
lord_blackfang wrote: I imagine the extras are there because it was the most economical way to arrange models in the molds and it's more cost effective to just dump everything from one mold into a single baggie and give use some freebies than it is to pick out all the bits for the 1-2 models that shouldn't be in there.
lord_blackfang wrote: Follow-up question: At which points level can you afford a second S1 if you already have a S1 and a Plague Teraton?
Oh, you mean for reals what kind of list?
Well, two S1s would be 44. Plague T is 26. So you're at 70 right there. You then need 3 troops to cover your requirements. So lowest you could do it would be 79 points
Played a few handfuls of DeadZone games and it is even more fun than I thought it would be! I received my First Survey recap but did not receive my Second Survey yet.
@ Krinsath - I had the exact same problem with one of my bags of Gen 3 Plague, i.e. Marauder heads instead of Plague heads in the bag.
@pretre - I will second the notion that it must depend on who you talk to. I have never had a customer service problem with Mantic. They sorted out my issues pretty quickly in the past. I am still waiting on my DeadZone missing stuff but they did say that survey closes at the end of this month so I don't really expect to hear back on that until February.
There was a conversation a few pages back about terrible mould lines on the DeadZone models. I'm not trying to re-hash that whole conversation but: I was working on some Wolf Guard terminators and Grey Hunters in the midst of assembling my DeadZone stuff. The GW hard plastics had some nasty mould lines too which made me remember that GW plastics normally seem too need cleaned up with a hobby knife. Maybe they are not quite as bad as the restic but they are also 5 times the cost...
Me:
Can you give us an update on the hard plastic situation, with possibly pictures? Specifically, the space zombies and Enforcers. Everyone on Dakka is getting nervous about the plastic situation as we're almost into February, and if the hard plastics don't work out, if there's enough time to even tool in restic and not be delayed. And I'm also specifically wondering about my pledge (as I pledged for lots of Enforcers including individual poses and I'm still unsure what is happening with that if the hard plastic Enforcers get made).
Mantic:
"Getting" nervous?
Seriously, though, we're still waiting on a final answer, which is why we haven't said anything definite yet. We've had a really promising early test of the Zombies through, and it's looking awesome - just needs to have a few things tweaked, and we'll be happy to show it off.
If the hard plastic Enforcers get made - which we really hope they will - people who ordered individual poses will have the option of switching them out for credit, or something similar.
It's all in hand, basically! As soon as we know enough to make a statement that isn't "we think, maybe, hopefully, it'll work!" we'll do so. Hope that's a good enough answer for now!
Me:
Thanks! Do you know an approximate timeframe to see the shots of the space zombies? Even a rough guess like "we hope to have pictures in a month"would be awesome.
Mantic:
A month is probably about right. Hopefully before then, maybe a little bit after, but roughly a month
I just followed up with:
Thanks Mantic! Last question re: Enforcers. Will the survey be open long enough for us to know the outcome of the sprues/results of the hard plastic enforcers, esp if they have to get tooled in (the originally planned) restic instead?
Me:
Can you give us an update on the hard plastic situation, with possibly pictures? Specifically, the space zombies and Enforcers. Everyone on Dakka is getting nervous about the plastic situation as we're almost into February, and if the hard plastics don't work out, if there's enough time to even tool in restic and not be delayed. And I'm also specifically wondering about my pledge (as I pledged for lots of Enforcers including individual poses and I'm still unsure what is happening with that if the hard plastic Enforcers get made).
Mantic:
"Getting" nervous?
Seriously, though, we're still waiting on a final answer, which is why we haven't said anything definite yet. We've had a really promising early test of the Zombies through, and it's looking awesome - just needs to have a few things tweaked, and we'll be happy to show it off.
If the hard plastic Enforcers get made - which we really hope they will - people who ordered individual poses will have the option of switching them out for credit, or something similar.
It's all in hand, basically! As soon as we know enough to make a statement that isn't "we think, maybe, hopefully, it'll work!" we'll do so. Hope that's a good enough answer for now!
Me:
Thanks! Do you know an approximate timeframe to see the shots of the space zombies? Even a rough guess like "we hope to have pictures in a month"would be awesome.
Mantic:
A month is probably about right. Hopefully before then, maybe a little bit after, but roughly a month
I just followed up with:
Thanks Mantic! Last question re: Enforcers. Will the survey be open long enough for us to know the outcome of the sprues/results of the hard plastic enforcers, esp if they have to get tooled in (the originally planned) restic instead?
Mars Attacks! survey is out next week as well, and they've managed to increase the efficiency of their sprues and throw in a few extra bits and bobs here and there.
I would sure love to see some actual cast figures instead of the 3D models for these to see how they compare to the restic nightmare my Deadzone stuff has turned into.
Super sweet Mars Attacks update. Free dishes, free soldiers, and a granny in a wheelchair! I'll leave it to someone more forum-savvy to repost the whole thing with pics.
Yeah it was a nice update. Novas vira designs are all pretty cool. Free stuff ala "dz got more than you thought cause its easier to give you a whole bag instead of tear then open over one model" kind of thing. All robots come with shrink ray and mini marines.
Joyboozer wrote: So Mantic appear to be completely ignoring any enquiries about missing items through all avenues, really professional guys!
To be fair to Mantic they are still collecting forms until the end of January regarding missing parts. At which point im sure they will address them as they have stated. However the completely missing orders should have been addressed by now, although I know from personal experience tracking down multiple missing parcels can be a massively time draining experience. I personally am waiting to hear about several damaged figures I received in my parcel, which I picked up at their openday (and did not have time to check every baggie).
I think give them a week or so before we gather the peasants, pitchforks and light the torches.
Making the Plague Terraton available on its own was a smart move. I was actually going to pass on it (a loss for Mantic and a shame for me) if I had to get it in the booster, as I have absolutely no use for more S2s (3 is quite enough until I have another mat and more terrain and go to 100+ point games). Now, I'll be sure to pick one up on its own. It also makes the booster more of a deal for those getting it, as you get 3 more S2s for a fiver if you do want/need them.
CptJake wrote: I would sure love to see some actual cast figures instead of the 3D models for these to see how they compare to the restic nightmare my Deadzone stuff has turned into.
If you're talking about Mars Attacks, I would too! I'm pretty confident that they'll turn out similarly to the Gears of War boardgame miniatures though, being the same plastic from the same factory, and those really are great. No cleanup required, as far as I can see - the material is definitely bendier than restic/polystyrene, but more rigid than Bones and holds detail very well. Fingers crossed that the pre-gluing works out okay.
CptJake wrote: I would sure love to see some actual cast figures instead of the 3D models for these to see how they compare to the restic nightmare my Deadzone stuff has turned into.
If you're talking about Mars Attacks, I would too! I'm pretty confident that they'll turn out similarly to the Gears of War boardgame miniatures though, being the same plastic from the same factory, and those really are great. No cleanup required, as far as I can see - the material is definitely bendier than restic/polystyrene, but more rigid than Bones and holds detail very well. Fingers crossed that the pre-gluing works out okay.
Yes, I'm talking about Mars Attacks. I don't have Gears Of War, and suspect it does not come with near as many poses that MA will. I also think Mantic is predisposed to taking short cuts on things so worry about how these are going to turn out.
I've never had a bad customer service experience with Mantic. Of course, that's only true because I've never had a customer service experience with Mantic.
What I do have is a pile of minis I didn't order, and I'm missing a bunch of stuff I did order.
DaveC wrote: It looks like the Dreadball Extreme KS launches on Friday Feb 21st.
I hope they address my Season 3 issues before they start it. Damned this is frustrating.
I guess the silver lining is once they have an active KS going we can expect to see at least limited Mantic representation in the thread. Maybe they'll also start addressing existing customer support issues.
CptJake wrote: I wish he was busy going through the 'missing items' forms and acting upon them.
He probably is. The people here on Dakka do not represent every single person with a missing item. Plus, everyone who hasn't heard anything, will send another one. Add to that the normal customer enquiries and you have the mother of all backlogs. Oh, and of course the afore mentioned day job.
Tl;dr - Mantic are working through them, and will get to you eventually.
Be that is it way, it is rather hard to argue that their communication on this one has been 'good' or even 'decent'.
I sent my request in, as directed, and haven't heard a peep.
I'm sure they received it, I guess, but some sort of notification that they did in fact get it, and that replacements and missing items will be coming would be nice.
And while we're on the subject, I must have missed the announcement that you are a somewhat official representative for Mantic - so that's good news!
"Room for improvement" is the extent of my vocabulary there.
It probably sitting in a yet-to-be-opened email on their account, so they'll get to it when they get to it. I can sympathise, but not much else.
Mantic 'Pathfinder' - doesn't mean that I get lost easily (although I do) or that I'm a D&D fan. What it does mean is that I'm basically one below being actually Mantic (and do tend to grab them if needed). You know when people mention 'Corporate Shills'? Basically that, but a nice one.
Or, you know, they could have done something other than the "chuck it and pray" model of shipping and made sure everyone got their stuff the first time around. I know I know it's an unheard of concept and some Mantic white knight will be along presently to present me with a laundry list of how it's perfectly acceptable to botch 70% of the orders that went out the door...
And again, for the record, I am missing DreadBall stuff and have let them know and am still waiting. I have also let them know about my missing DeadZone stuff, but I would really expect them to have worked the DreadBall season three stuff at this point.
CptJake wrote: I wish he was busy going through the 'missing items' forms and acting upon them.
He probably is. The people here on Dakka do not represent every single person with a missing item. Plus, everyone who hasn't heard anything, will send another one. Add to that the normal customer enquiries and you have the mother of all backlogs. Oh, and of course the afore mentioned day job.
Tl;dr - Mantic are working through them, and will get to you eventually.
So they had time to blow smoke up my arse telling me my missing stuff would be sent out ASAP back in November, but are too busy to actually send it as they have a real job?
Thanks for the clarification white knight/employee.
agnosto wrote: Or, you know, they could have done something other than the "chuck it and pray" model of shipping and made sure everyone got their stuff the first time around. I know I know it's an unheard of concept and some Mantic white knight will be along presently to present me with a laundry list of how it's perfectly acceptable to botch 70% of the orders that went out the door...
We prefer to be called "Fanbois". white knights are for GW. Seriously though, that many mistakes suck. I offer condolences to those missing stuff and I hope you get it soon.
I'll personally be buying into DBX for the KS exclusives only, the rest I'll be getting retail since I'd like to support the local stores... there's now three places in my city that stock Mantic and I'd like things to stay that way.
sukura636 wrote: . Oh, and of course the afore mentioned day job.
Tl;dr - Mantic are working through them, and will get to you eventually.
If you are official Mantic representation, maybe you need to stop posting on forums and open the corporate email box and begin responding to people's various and repeated unanswered emails and making plans to fulfill products for them?
If you are not official Mantic representation, you are not doing Mantic any favors by putting poorly chosen words in their mouths.
sukura636 wrote: . Oh, and of course the afore mentioned day job.
Tl;dr - Mantic are working through them, and will get to you eventually.
If you are official Mantic representation, maybe you need to stop posting on forums and open the corporate email box and begin responding to people's various and repeated unanswered emails and making plans to fulfill products for them?
If you are not official Mantic representation, you are not doing Mantic any favors by putting poorly chosen words in their mouths.
I think you misunderstood his post. He doesn't work for Mantic in an official capacity, nor is he paid, he's the equivalent of the old GW Outriders; just someone that supports Mantic in their local area. I think they're called Pathfinders...just people that run demo games and what-not.
sukura636 wrote: . Oh, and of course the afore mentioned day job.
Tl;dr - Mantic are working through them, and will get to you eventually.
If you are official Mantic representation, maybe you need to stop posting on forums and open the corporate email box and begin responding to people's various and repeated unanswered emails and making plans to fulfill products for them?
If you are not official Mantic representation, you are not doing Mantic any favors by putting poorly chosen words in their mouths.
I think you misunderstood his post. He doesn't work for Mantic in an official capacity, nor is he paid, he's the equivalent of the old GW Outriders; just someone that supports Mantic in their local area. I think they're called Pathfinders...just people that run demo games and what-not.
His responses are insulting to disappointed backers and like all water-carrying, puts words in Mantic's mouth and doesn't do Mantic any favors. Silence and limited official responses is better than an equivalent of 'quit yer complaining' response which attempts to marginalize very valid concerns.
His responses are insulting to disappointed backers and like all water-carrying, puts words in Mantic's mouth and doesn't do Mantic any favors. Silence and limited official responses is better than an equivalent of 'quit yer complaining' response which attempts to marginalize very valid concerns.
You're not going to get an argument from me, I was just trying to make it clear that he wasn't "official". Personally, I think Mantic's business practices are just one long string of feth the people that gave them money after another. They suckered me into KoW and then Deadzone before I actually received the KoW stuff and found out 1) how shoddy and half-arsed it all was and 2) how little they actually care about the quality of their product.
As I told Ronnie in a personal email, not that he gives a feth, they've lost a customer that spends upwards of $3-5,000 in hobby-related purchases a year and insured that none of that will go to Mantic in the future. No, Mantic is all about churn and burn; keep the Kickstarters going with perceived "What a great deal!" bargains before people can catch on to how little they care about their product or their customers. Prime example, they continue to use the shoddy Chinese manufacturer that seems incapable of producing even simple casts without horrid issues. This means they're pocketing as much money as they can and to hell with everyone.
If I could tell, really imprint one thing on the collective consciousness of the leadership of Mantic it's this; slow the "f" down. Do it right and do it well the first time and you'll keep customers and create brand loyalty. Continue to send out boxes of unsorted bags of resin crap and people will walk. 70% error rate on shipped goods is unacceptable, this means you truly could give a rat's arse about your company image or the product you're producing. Yay! You sent me a great looking box. Boo! it was full of unmarked, unsorted miniatures with no instructions, a packing list or any way to tell what the hell I actually got except a box full of resin and plastic.
His responses are insulting to disappointed backers and like all water-carrying, puts words in Mantic's mouth and doesn't do Mantic any favors. Silence and limited official responses is better than an equivalent of 'quit yer complaining' response which attempts to marginalize very valid concerns.
You're not going to get an argument from me, I was just trying to make it clear that he wasn't "official". Personally, I think Mantic's business practices are just one long string of feth the people that gave them money after another. They suckered me into KoW and then Deadzone before I actually received the KoW stuff and found out 1) how shoddy and half-arsed it all was and 2) how little they actually care about the quality of their product.
As I told Ronnie in a personal email, not that he gives a feth, they've lost a customer that spends upwards of $3-5,000 in hobby-related purchases a year and insured that none of that will go to Mantic in the future. No, Mantic is all about churn and burn; keep the Kickstarters going with perceived "What a great deal!" bargains before people can catch on to how little they care about their product or their customers. Prime example, they continue to use the shoddy Chinese manufacturer that seems incapable of producing even simple casts without horrid issues. This means they're pocketing as much money as they can and to hell with everyone.
If I could tell, really imprint one thing on the collective consciousness of the leadership of Mantic it's this; slow the "f" down. Do it right and do it well the first time and you'll keep customers and create brand loyalty. Continue to send out boxes of unsorted bags of resin crap and people will walk. 70% error rate on shipped goods is unacceptable, this means you truly could give a rat's arse about your company image or the product you're producing. Yay! You sent me a great looking box. Boo! it was full of unmarked, unsorted miniatures with no instructions, a packing list or any way to tell what the hell I actually got except a box full of resin and plastic.
I don't disagree that they need to slow down, because their packing problems in DeadZone are almost assuredly down to trying to meet their KS estimate and pulling in people who 1) didn't know what they were looking at because it was brand new and 2) don't normally pack orders. To then take those people and pack 4000+ boxes where there was a huge amount of variation in contents in a very short timeframe and, well, you get what we see now. Mantic is at a point that they can push things back a month or two when needed and not have people worried like they would be with say, Defiance or other suppliers. They need to work on their self-awareness to know when the timeframe they have isn't enough to do the job properly rather than giving it the good college try.
However, I will disagree with you that their use of the same supplier is a sign that they don't care. Mantic should go find a new supplier that has just a good of a chance of being worse as it does of improving? That's just as big of a gamble since most of the "we do miniatures" companies are booked up and not actively seeking new clients. Instead, they sent their own people over to China to babysit, and the results did improve. Whether they improved to each backer's own preferred quality standards is certainly a matter of debate, but that things are in general getting better is widely agreed upon.
Somehow though, moving employees halfway around the world shows they don't care? Does it suck that it's fairly common that the Chinese need to be babysat to not cut every single corner? Sure, but it's just as sad that domestic suppliers are so expensive that it's still cheaper and faster to ship something from the other side of the world than make it locally. Air-freighting a large amount of terrain just to send it to KS backers is a sign of their disinterest? Overnighting 40lb+ boxes to other countries an indication that "feth those guys" is their attitude? There are far, far cheaper things they could have done to pocket money there and nobody would have raised an eyebrow had they done them, really. They chose not to, and to say Mantic doesn't do anything to show appreciation to their backers is plain exaggeration. Those things might not matter to you, but just because you don't care doesn't mean those things didn't happen.
Now, where they have been sucking wind of late is in their communication with customers, and if you decide to focus only on "what's gone on lately" then certainly your opinion is validated. They need to get people working on communication, especially to people with KoW and DB issues. They also need to have the "one method of communcation to rule them all" where people actually can get status updates (even if it's just "we're waiting on stock from our suppliers") as well rather than the current model of "which of the six different methods haven't you tried? it's totally that one you haven't done that always works." A true trouble-ticket system rather than the Google Forms they're so fond of would probably be a decent investment.
In a perfect world, Mantic would spend the time between now and the summer getting their company organization better laid-out. There's been too many lapses on basic "things that need doing" (e.g. - how long did it take for a manifest of the DZ box to be sent out on KS? How many times has Ronnie apologized for not mentioning something? etc.) to say what they have is working properly, and the sooner they set that to rights the better for everyone involved. Is that likely to happen? I doubt it, but one can hope...
Krinsath wrote: I don't disagree that they need to slow down, because their packing problems in DeadZone are almost assuredly down to trying to meet their KS estimate and pulling in people who 1) didn't know what they were looking at because it was brand new and 2) don't normally pack orders. To then take those people and pack 4000+ boxes where there was a huge amount of variation in contents in a very short timeframe and, well, you get what we see now. Mantic is at a point that they can push things back a month or two when needed and not have people worried like they would be with say, Defiance or other suppliers. They need to work on their self-awareness to know when the timeframe they have isn't enough to do the job properly rather than giving it the good college try.
This is the thing that bugs me the most. They KNOW that they should take the time and make sure everyone gets what they pay for but they can't slow down or it will delay the next Kickstarter project. They have to keep them rolling or the suckers will stop buying the crap they're slinging at them. Anyone with half a brain would stop at some point and say, "Gee, if we didn't just toss crap in a box and ship it, we'd be saving money in the long run." Seriously, when there's a 70% failure rate and it doesn't even slow them down from the mad scramble to the next money grab, you know what their priority is and it's not customer service. Customer service would be taking care of the people whose money you've already taken BEFORE you move on to the next thing.
They're not Defiance. They're something else, but nearly as shady since you get at least some of your product but then never hear from them again about what's missing.
Mantic! You have shown an incapacity to even ship retail boxes in complete condition; stop! Think for a minute and make sure that you're sending out complete packages. Quit half-arsing everything. Quit fething people over. Start answering email and complete the orders that are still incomplete from 3 Kickstarters ago. Catch up then go on to the next thing.
Krinsath wrote: However, I will disagree with you that their use of the same supplier is a sign that they don't care. Mantic should go find a new supplier that has just a good of a chance of being worse as it does of improving? That's just as big of a gamble since most of the "we do miniatures" companies are booked up and not actively seeking new clients. Instead, they sent their own people over to China to babysit, and the results did improve. Whether they improved to each backer's own preferred quality standards is certainly a matter of debate, but that things are in general getting better is widely agreed upon.
Somehow though, moving employees halfway around the world shows they don't care? Does it suck that it's fairly common that the Chinese need to be babysat to not cut every single corner? Sure, but it's just as sad that domestic suppliers are so expensive that it's still cheaper and faster to ship something from the other side of the world than make it locally. Air-freighting a large amount of terrain just to send it to KS backers is a sign of their disinterest? Overnighting 40lb+ boxes to other countries an indication that "feth those guys" is their attitude? There are far, far cheaper things they could have done to pocket money there and nobody would have raised an eyebrow had they done them, really. They chose not to, and to say Mantic doesn't do anything to show appreciation to their backers is plain exaggeration. Those things might not matter to you, but just because you don't care doesn't mean those things didn't happen.
Not being an insider here, I can't fathom why they act like an abused spouse and keep going back for more. There are other manufacturers in China that seem to be able to get things right; hell, illegal recasters do a better job than the people Mantic found. Have you actually looked at DZ models? They have mold lines in places where mold lines shouldn't exist; you don't design a board game and make it where only an expert modeler can produce an end product that doesn't suck. A couple of pages back you can see what the Marauder pyro came out looking like; if you apply the "hot water" trick, it looks like he's shooting the guy next to him. This brings on another point. These aren't cheap models; they're $3+ models that require 30+ minutes work to make them even ready to prime. I don't know about you but my time is worth a great deal more than the difference between this per model amount and a GW model but to each his/her own I guess. I will say that the new resin is better than the crap I got with KoW; congrats Mantic your suck factor dropped one notch but climbed 10 when you didn't send me what I paid for (some people haven't even seen anything from Mantic yet).
As for overnighting stuff, ask the Canadians how that worked out for them. Nice but also shows lack of business savvy unless it actually came out cheaper that way (sometimes it does).
Krinsath wrote: Now, where they have been sucking wind of late is in their communication with customers, and if you decide to focus only on "what's gone on lately" then certainly your opinion is validated. They need to get people working on communication, especially to people with KoW and DB issues. They also need to have the "one method of communication to rule them all" where people actually can get status updates (even if it's just "we're waiting on stock from our suppliers") as well rather than the current model of "which of the six different methods haven't you tried? it's totally that one you haven't done that always works." A true trouble-ticket system rather than the Google Forms they're so fond of would probably be a decent investment.
The problem here is that this isn't new or just lately. They made major changes to models during KoW (Trolls) and then even changed the material for models in Dreadball with nary a peep to backers or anyone. I know that some of them used to work for GW but Mantic doesn't have the market presence to pull these kinds of antics without it costing them in the long run...but it does explain where their style of business management comes from.
Krinsath wrote: In a perfect world, Mantic would spend the time between now and the summer getting their company organization better laid-out. There's been too many lapses on basic "things that need doing" (e.g. - how long did it take for a manifest of the DZ box to be sent out on KS? How many times has Ronnie apologized for not mentioning something? etc.) to say what they have is working properly, and the sooner they set that to rights the better for everyone involved. Is that likely to happen? I doubt it, but one can hope...
Yeah, I'm not holding my breath which is why they won't get any more of my money, possibly ever. Ronnie has apologized but he keeps doing the same thing over and over! How stupid is that? Is he so far removed from the process that he has no idea what's going on in his own company? It's like keystone cops over there and I'm truly amazed they're still in business. If I was a FLGS owner and had to deal with the amount of missing items from packages that we keep hearing about, I wouldn't carry their product if they showed up and begged me to.
Anyway, I'll got back to my corner for a few more pages and try to stop being so negative. True fans like ScarletSquig will be happy when Deadzone's finished because they won't ever have to see my comments again.
@Agnosto
Where are you getting this 70% from? A forum poll where most of the people who got everything didn't bother to respond?
I've had my stuff since before Christmas, and felt no need to post about it. I do not doubt that a considerable number of those like me merely haven't bothered to mention it.
You have issues with Mantic and how you feel you have been treated. I get that. But you are not their only customer.
I've seen you loudly proclaiming about how Mantic is ignoring you and giving you bad customer service.
Your experience has been poor, but that does not make Mantic this horrible failure of a company that you paint them to be.
It just means you had a bad experience.
@On topic.
I got in the Deadzone KS at the Strike Team level.
The entirety of the box game was in there.
Some of my add-ons weren't.
Anything that was missing was marked on the invoice that was in the box. All of that was marked as coming in shipment 2. Therefore I consider it to be satisfactory.
I was seriously impressed at the accuracy, considering how long it took me to sort things out and realize that everything the invoice had on it was accounted for in one way or another.
There were two quality issues I had. Recon was missing his dagger, and one of my 3A Plague was broken at the ankles.
I filled out the form and that was the end of it. Ball is in Mantic's court now. I don't need a constant flow of updates.
I highly doubt anyone will hear about replacement items until it is time for shipment 2 to roll out. Otherwise Mantic will incur even more cost.
I have no problem with that. They have given me no reason to believe that the missing items will not be taken care of.
I'm in the same boat as Skrulnik. Got my stuff (except the missing dice) early and I love the terrain so far. Clearly some people have not had a great experience, but I am happy so far (given the bucketload of miniatures pledges).
Mantic clearly need to take greater care and slow down on the kickstarters (and ditch restic), but I for one would back another KS from Mantic.
I wouldn't back another restic kick starter from mantic, maybe a hard plastic one but not restic.
I hope they take the extra step in the future too and include labels and instructions in boxed games instead of a bunch of sprues and bags of bits thrown into a nice box.
Labels on the bags would have improved the situation for everyone from the people packing to ensure they got everything it to the customer.
Mantic already is slowing down, the DKH 4 Kickstarter was planned for late last year, but is now delayed until 2015.
As of right now, they only have to ship the second half of Deadzone and Mars Attacks. That's it, everything else is done.
DBX is probably pretty much entirely sculpted already, some of the KoWKS units are too, wouldn't surprise me if they had the entire abyssal army sorted by now.
That one will be pretty straightforward for them, I can't see it being bigger than the original DB KS, most likely on a par with Mars Attacks and around the $500k mark.
They are re-thinking their KS strategy with hard plastic in mind. From what I've heard, KoW 2.0 KS will have a lot of abyssal units in hard plastic, and only large infantry/ monsters characters etc. in restic. It will be an exercise in returning to the quality/ price points that the company used to have on its older ranges.
As for working in China, from the sounds of it it's pretty much Mantic staff, Chinese machines currently as they're flying a lot of their own people over to get it done right.
scarletsquig wrote: That one will be pretty straightforward for them, I can't see it being bigger than the original DB KS, most likely on a par with Mars Attacks and around the $500k mark.
That is still pretty big.
According to Kickstarter Stats, only 270 projects in the games category (which includes computer games) in the history of Kickstarter broke the US$ 100.000 mark. With 500.000 US$, they might well be in the top 100 Gaming-Kickstarter of all times. If they do break 1 Mill, they'd be in the Top 30 in Games (and in the top 100 of all Kickstarters across all categories in the entire history of Kickstarter).
I hope they take the extra step in the future too and include labels and instructions in boxed games instead of a bunch of sprues and bags of bits thrown into a nice box.
Labels on the bags would have improved the situation for everyone from the people packing to ensure they got everything it to the customer.
Simple little steps that would have been incredibly helpful and useful...
I most likely won't be backing any more restic KS campaigns either - at least, not beyond picking up a handful of miniatures at most here and there. But then, I'm a bit of a weird mutant here anyway - seeing as it will take me at least a couple of years to get all my Deadzone figures painted, I really shouldn't be buying any figures in any materials anymore. It's very likely that by the time I'm done with my current Deadzone haul, Mantic will be doing Deadzone II. Seeing as any Warpath KS is likely to spotlight the most vanilla factions in the Warpath universe first (FF, Corp, Asterians, Marauders) and leave the weird stuff I love out (Z'zor, Veer-myn, Nameless, Teratons really should get their own faction, dare I say Helfathers?) I doubt even the announcement of an imminent hard plastic Warpath KS would get me excited right now.
In that regard, Mantic's current plans suit me well. With no interest in Dreadball or Kings of War, I'm safe from temptation until 2015.
That said, I am a very satisfied Deadzone customer at this point.
Apologies to anyone who found my posts insulting; I assure you that it wasn't my intention. Attempting to allay fears completely backfired somehow. I wasn't telling anyone not to complain, just trying to make it clear that Mantic is doing everything that they can to solve problems; it's easy to mistake silence for indifference. Sorry again.
To explain my position. I'm a non--paid demo person for Mantic (pathfinder) although swooping around the internet and annoying/aiding people is also in my 'job description', as it were. I'm in regular contact with Mantic actual, and tend to be more in the loop than others, although not all this information is available to share. I can escalate things if needed - which does happen sometimes. Not too long ago I decided to just try to keep on top of Dakka more, as a matter of course. I can keep an eye on here (so that Mantic can worry about their emails) and also I can feed info back down to you - like the HP decision before survey 2 thing.
Anyway all that is completely OT, so I'll be quiet now .
sukura636 wrote: I wasn't telling anyone not to complain, just trying to make it clear that Mantic is doing everything that they can to solve problems;
That is demonstrably false. They are clearly not doing 'everything' because it is stupidly simple to implement a Customer relation system so all emails go through a single source, Email forms *ACTUALLY* work. People get confirmed receipt of emails with tracking numbers. Web-based tracking of the status of their request so they know it is not 'lost'. Ability to have further communications be tracked. All of these things are done by small companies which are MUCH MUCH MUCH smaller than mantic and it is low-hanging fruit to implement and would make administration on their site much easier than the communications disaster they are managing now. Every employee could find out the status easily.
Simply admit they are in over their heads with communications, announce they are implementing a CRS and spend a weekend entering in all current emails into it so people can track their issues.
In today's age, sending an email to a company/filling out an onlineform and getting ZERO RESPONSE for weeks with the expectation of 'we got it, don't worry' is madness and unacceptable. Considering communications was poor and unreliable a year ago when the KS were having small issues, it was a ticking timebomb for when large issues by another aspect of the company caused an issue and the failed communications process becomes more overwhelmed and broken than it is.
So you are 100% wrong in saying they are doing everything they can. That is a false statement. They are actually doing less than minimum by sending large numbers of orders out knowingly wrong to backers and retailers and simply hoping enough of the people throw up their hands due to indifference or ignorance to bother them for repairs. They are doing a good job making people lose hope due to lack of communications, I wonder how many people have given up already.
It is an easy problem to solve with time and money... and when you as a company make a mistake, your time and money are forfeit to make customers happy (especially when your business model is based upon people pre-paying for products via KS, goodwill is your lifeblood)
Don't you see this as a giant failure if they need some non-company shill like you to hand-pick legitimate issues from people who tried to get resolutions via official means and were ignored and have *YOU* escalate things to a resolution? why is mantic ignoring or failing to treat all official communications direct from people with the same respect of what some forum-trolling insider brings to them? Does this mean the only real way to get a speedy response is to be an insider or complain super loud online so they will 'silence' you by providing basic-level service? Do you see the problem your mere existence portrays to the internet? You claim that you have special avenues to get things resolved which breeds a feeling of the service being provided is worse than it may actually be...
But you are doing it for the attention, you like to exercise your clout as an 'insider' eh? Tell mantic to actually respond to EVERY EMAIL they get so people feel their emails are read, and will be acted upon even if there is nothing to report at this time. Then they may be doing 'slightly more' than bare minimal... not 'everything they can to actually solve problems'... Unless they don't actually consider disenfranchised customers with incomplete/damaged orders 'a problem'
Honestly not fussed over restic. I'd prefer hard plastic, but I just ordered sedition wars knowing it was essentially the same thing to pass time while I wait.
Looking forward to this apparently imminent update to see some sculpts/renders and so on.
skrulnik wrote: @Agnosto
Where are you getting this 70% from? A forum poll where most of the people who got everything didn't bother to respond?
I've had my stuff since before Christmas, and felt no need to post about it. I do not doubt that a considerable number of those like me merely haven't bothered to mention it.
You have issues with Mantic and how you feel you have been treated. I get that. But you are not their only customer.
I've seen you loudly proclaiming about how Mantic is ignoring you and giving you bad customer service.
Your experience has been poor, but that does not make Mantic this horrible failure of a company that you paint them to be.
It just means you had a bad experience.
@On topic.
I got in the Deadzone KS at the Strike Team level.
The entirety of the box game was in there.
Some of my add-ons weren't.
Anything that was missing was marked on the invoice that was in the box. All of that was marked as coming in shipment 2. Therefore I consider it to be satisfactory.
I was seriously impressed at the accuracy, considering how long it took me to sort things out and realize that everything the invoice had on it was accounted for in one way or another.
There were two quality issues I had. Recon was missing his dagger, and one of my 3A Plague was broken at the ankles.
I filled out the form and that was the end of it. Ball is in Mantic's court now. I don't need a constant flow of updates.
I highly doubt anyone will hear about replacement items until it is time for shipment 2 to roll out. Otherwise Mantic will incur even more cost.
I have no problem with that. They have given me no reason to believe that the missing items will not be taken care of.
Well, that's alright then, you got your stuff so the majority who haven't should just stfu. Ok. There are still backers who haven't received anything at all, not even a poorly sorted box but you got your stuff so Mantic is gold. There were 4,306 backers; that's hardly an army, especially when you consider that they knew what was coming and had plenty of time to prepare for it. No, they didn't get enough product to even get enough dice into everyone's hands (except retailers apparently). That is a logistics failure and has nothing to do with anything but poor business management. Any peon with a SAP system could have had this sorted before it even became an issue but Mantic is determined to cheap out in every arena possible, including customer experience. My wife does logistics for a living and she just laughed and shook her had when I recounted all the antics going on around the multiple kickstarters. No organization is perfect but you have to at least attempt to off-set known variables when planning an enterprise; I know from experience, I manage 10 federally funded programs that provide services to in excess of 10,000 students and employ more than 100 employees. Each one of these programs is a "ball" in the air that has to be juggled and the moment that communication breaks down, the balls start to fall and things start falling apart. Mantic has shown that they can't keep 1 ball in the air much less 4.
The sad thing is that there are people who are willing to take it. In what realm of possibility is it ok to ship an incomplete product to a customer? Why does Mantic get a pass and other companies don't? If Ford sells you a car that's missing a seat, do you just shake your head and say, "Gee, they'll sort it out eventually." No, you get upset and demand that it be corrected ASAP. Sure, we're not spending nearly as much on Mantic's resin crap but the principle is the same. Have you ever gone to the grocery and when you got home you realized that the cashier/sacker didn't bag your milk? How passive are you about that experience? Or if you're in a restaurant and you don't receive the meal that you ordered? You're spending much more on Mantic merchandise than the last two examples.
You mention the second survey and shipment 2. Ok, we have a not insignificant number of backers who do not have complete product from round one AND they're not going to make them whole until AFTER the second survey goes out. Stop and think about that for a moment. From a business perspective, what should take priority? Shilling more of your product or making people whole? Mollifying upset backers so they're willing to buy more of your product or just pushing ahead with pawning more of your wares (sight unseen no less)? The message this sends is that they could care less about the people that they have admitted to wronging; these people are the bottom priority and take a backseat to trying to milk more money out of a Kickstarter that they seem unable to control reasonably well enough to even insure delivery of purchased goods to paying customers.
Well, this attitude maybe alright with you but it is most certainly not alright with me and I'll continue to speak my piece until I'm made whole, receive everything I've paid for and walk away from the catastrophe that is the Mantic business model.
scarletsquig wrote: They are re-thinking their KS strategy with hard plastic in mind. From what I've heard, KoW 2.0 KS will have a lot of abyssal units in hard plastic, and only large infantry/ monsters characters etc. in restic. It will be an exercise in returning to the quality/ price points that the company used to have on its older ranges.
Until they decide to make them in metal without telling anyone first.
carlos13th wrote: I hope they take the extra step in the future too and include labels and instructions in boxed games instead of a bunch of sprues and bags of bits thrown into a nice box.
Labels on the bags would have improved the situation for everyone from the people packing to ensure they got everything it to the customer.
Simple little steps that would have been incredibly helpful and useful...
...maybe next time?
And maybe, for models that don't need to have separate heads, don't have separate heads. No piece should be that damned small.
I got an email receipt for my submission of the missing pieces form, and that's all I need for now. I don't need my hand held every minute of the day.
As for materials, I prefer hard plastic over restic, so as long as they stick to the hard plastic for basic units, restic for leaders/large units, I'm not fussed. I would think twice if it was an entire KoW army of restic though.
I got an email receipt for my submission of the missing pieces form, and that's all I need for now. I don't need my hand held every minute of the day.
As for materials, I prefer hard plastic over restic, so as long as they stick to the hard plastic for basic units, restic for leaders/large units, I'm not fussed. I would think twice if it was an entire KoW army of restic though.
Well, I guess all those people who have yet to receive ANYTHING are just whiners and should stfu. Mantic's talking about the next Kickstarter and they have yet to sort out all the issues from KoW much less DB and now DZ. That's an indication of stupidity or how little they care about their customers.
Hi guys!! New to Dakka here- and not usually a fan of forums, but my gaming group have recommended I keep in touch with one
SO I come over here to find out the latest rumours on Mantic stuff (I really like everything Mantic have done so far) and find that this Nkelsch guy is just insulting people who are trying to explain to him that a) he is not the only person to have experienced problems, and b) just because he wasn't made a priority should that mean that Mantic are total smeg!!
Seriously, it seems as though you really have it in for the company. Why bother continuing to comment? Why bother continuing to fund them? We know you've had problems- which is not good, don't get me wrong, but if it bother you that much, walk away and don't look back!! I'm sure you won't miss Mantic, and they won't miss you!!
This is a HOBBY, and as such is meant to be FUN!! Really, honestly, by continuing to run Mantic down on here, you're just spoiling it for yourself. Go back to the parts of this awesome hobby that you do enjoy, and have fun again.
CptJake wrote: Why bother joining a forum just to chastise folks?
He asked a question and established he was new and where his opinions on matter lies which informs why he's asking his questions. There's no need to be rude in return, as that doesn't help anything and stands a good chance of keeping our community narrow. Tolerance with new people, or else they'll never become old people.
So then, why DOES nkelsch black knight (if that's not the term it should be) in every Mantic thread? Because he had a bad experience and he wants others to be aware of it. Does it get to be a bit of a bothersome broken record to people who follow the thread? Sure, but he's of the opinion that others should be warned about what happened so that, if those same things matter to them, they are not similarly disappointed. He can be more than slightly antagonistic when presenting this information, and some would say he often crosses the line into just plain old being an ass, but those voices should be heard too especially when the discussion turns to new products or new initiatives for people who've come to the thread lately and don't want to read 100+ pages of discussion. New customers might be scared away, but I see nothing wrong with informing people of the facts of a given situation with a company. Where they tend to annoy me is when they take their opinions, exaggerate them to the nth degree and then present it as fact. However, humanity does that constantly with everything so hopefully intelligent consumers know how to harvest the wheat from the chaff in their opinions.
Were this the Mantic sub-forum here (which you should also visit if you haven't...it's way down the list), then I might be more inclined to say that he should really go elsewhere since he has no interest in doing anything positive with the company. In N&R, I tend to see it as "If Mantic didn't want people being negative about their news, they should really stop giving those people ammunition to be negative with" and sadly, Mantic has not done a particularly great job there of late.
If nkelsch and other's attitude in the thread bother you, you can place them on ignore and you will not see their posts unless someone else quotes them. That's also an advisable course of action for people who post uninteresting walls of text (hi! how are you?) and allows you to tailor the forums as you see fit.
I wish you could employ the IGNORE command to specific threads. A lot of people involved in the back-and-forth-that-isn't-remotely-news-or-rumors-and-frankly-gets-somewehat-annoying-regardless-of-how-I-feel-or-which-side-I-agree-with make useful, meaningful, or interesting posts elsewhere... but I really just want to see news and or rumors here
Oh well, I've done nothing myself in this post but complain, so bit of a hypocritical stance.
Have we had any Discussion yet about the third (and presumably final) iteration of the 6 named Mercs/Heroes Jake recently put up on his blog? I like the simplified version of the Orbital drop dwarf, a hit something along the lines of the TK-Zero and then he moves around with a jump pack after that... instead of complicating things with the whole "end turn in midflight" thing. It would be cool, but maybe too much to work with.
Thanks Krinsath!! That's actually extremely useful!! I totally agree with you- I think it's great to advise people of pitfalls that others have encountered. It just seemed to me that he laid into that Sukura dude rather thickly, when all SUkura was doing was trying to explain. There are a couple of the Pathfinders near me, and they have always been honest and up front with their explanations whenever I've had a question.
It didn't seem to me that nkelsch wasn't so much letting people know about his experience, he was actively seeking to get people to stop buying stuff from Mantic or funding their KS campaigns- which I thought was incredibly unethical.
But then, I'm very much a "say your piece and move on" kinda guy, rather than bang on flogging a dead horse.
I shall definitely have to find my way over to the Mantic board as you suggest!!
nkelsch has had issues going back to DreadBall where he did receive some egregiously bad figures so he's had a while of grinding his axe in this matter. He also has a bad habit of accusing anyone who disagrees with him a Mantic shill or a water-carrier for Mantic (see also: the part in my earlier post referring to him sometimes being kind of an ass). One could argue that he has said his part and should move on, but it is his life. If he wants to waste it bagging on a company he's repeatedly said he's not doing business with rather than finding one he prefers and dealing with them, then that's his prerogative. Kind of like the guy who dumps a girl because she's a ditz, but still feels the need to yell at her, you know? Up to them how they want to spend that time and even if we don't understand/agree with it, it's their choice to make and we should try to respect that as long as they're not outright lying, which I do not believe is a sin you can lump on his door.
It takes all kinds though, and on the whole we're better off for having the disagreements and arguments than we are for getting into group-think. We just have to have the mods to make sure things stay civil, and the crew here is reasonably decent when they're not accidentally deleting major threads.
On the topic of Mantic the company, I think I've been hit by every snafu they've had in DB and DZ (didn't back KoW, the aesthetic is not my cup of tea) that didn't involve just being forgotten. I have a lot of missing models from DZ, I got mixed materials teams in S3 and my S2 boosters didn't show up until just before DeadZone did. In the end, such things don't bother me, because life is too short and none of the mix-ups have kept me from enjoying what I have. However, I fully understand the people who decide it IS worth getting worked up about, and I do wish that Mantic would stop dampening my experience with their products.
Now, I've got to see a man about some card sleeves...
I think at least 60 of the 159 pages in this thread are the flogging of dead horses. People with legitimate concerns need an outlet to express their frustration, there is no doubt or argument. I just wish that way back in the line someone had successfully crafted a "Mantic Games: Concerns and Issues" style thread where such argument and debate may take place without burying potential news
Dylan Varr wrote: Hi guys!! New to Dakka here- and not usually a fan of forums, but my gaming group have recommended I keep in touch with one
SO I come over here to find out the latest rumours on Mantic stuff (I really like everything Mantic have done so far) and find that this Nkelsch guy is just insulting people who are trying to explain to him that a) he is not the only person to have experienced problems, and b) just because he wasn't made a priority should that mean that Mantic are total smeg!!
Seriously, it seems as though you really have it in for the company. Why bother continuing to comment? Why bother continuing to fund them? We know you've had problems- which is not good, don't get me wrong, but if it bother you that much, walk away and don't look back!! I'm sure you won't miss Mantic, and they won't miss you!!
This is a HOBBY, and as such is meant to be FUN!! Really, honestly, by continuing to run Mantic down on here, you're just spoiling it for yourself. Go back to the parts of this awesome hobby that you do enjoy, and have fun again.
Life's too short.
Because tens of thousands of dollars have been taken from Dakkaites over the years due to businesses who runt he gambit of total frauds to innocent incompetents. And one of the great strengths of Dakka is the long documentation on these companies and their experiences.
I dislike the attitude of shills and sockpuppets shouting down legitimate criticism or issues so not only are the people incentivized to 'go away' but that their feedback not be available to others.
It is great for people who say 'they had good experiences'
It is great for people to say 'I expected this level of service and was disapointed'
It is not great for people to basically post 'STFU and stop complaining' or 'your issues are isolated and no one else anywhere is having similar issues so it must be your fault.' while in turn doing everything to suppress those 'similar' issues from being exposed or discussed.
I have never once said I want mantic to fail. I have even said and have purchased some of their products (by retail so if/when they were damaged I could return them) I personally feel mantic is in over their head and are not malicious and not even incompetent, just 'cutting corners' as business model. As a customer with a high hobby budget, 'price' is not a huge motivator for me. I value quality of material, casting, sculpt, game mechanics and customer service over price. When I see things which could be done which would not impact their price point drastically, that kinda makes me sad. They have a serious communications issue which could be rectified and it is clear they simply don't feel the need to. They also didn't seem to feel the need to increase the QC on the products so people still are at random getting anywhere from 'great' to 'unusably damaged models.'
I feel like they could still be king of inexpensive models without being the king of cheap models.
Sometimes I feel the people defending Mantic are actually doing the company a disservice, as you put words in Mantic's mouth and write checks which they then have to cash (which has been the result of many KS announcements due to overzealous white knighting causing issues for mantic) as well as killing valid input which never reaches mantic. Don't take it personally when someone has a legitimate issue with the KS or the company or the quality of the product and attempt to squash them. If someone is trying to silence complains, especially valid ones, I am going to call you on it. We don't need that on Dakka, especially with lots of corrupt and crooked frauds who prey on our community, the more above board experiences of real people is gold for protecting our community.
GrimDork wrote: People with legitimate concerns need an outlet to express their frustration, there is no doubt or argument. I just wish that way back in the line someone had successfully crafted a "Mantic Games: Concerns and Issues" style thread where such argument and debate may take place without burying potential news
Ive often thought a kickstarter results thread for Mantic may take some of the heat out of this thread as until peoples issues are resolved it will just go round in circles and news and updates maybe buried. Plus you can always point people to the relevent thread rather than wade through the 100+ pages here.
Well, the Dreadball one is locked, but that was back when KS threads remained in N&R after the KS had ended rather than being moved off to a subforum. And back when this was just the Dreadball N&R thread and nothing else.
Alpharius wrote: I think that while it does get tiresome, it is also a clear indication that Mantic has a LOT to work on, in terms of...just about everything.
So, it is nice that we can have Mantic Representation that is Official, Semi-Official, and whatever else.
Just hopefully not only when they've got an active Kickstarter though.
Has James been spotted since Mars Attacks Kickstarter closed?
It can't be that, if there were any Vermyn in the warehouse they'd have been boxed up and shipped (possibly to the wrong customers) when they sent out the first wave of deadzone
Heh. Nice way to say "Kickstarter backers won't be getting this one, sorry!"
Well, I mean, why would we? It wasn't part of the Kickstarter. I feel I have about as much right to getting it for 'free' was I would the new Dreadball scenario pack thing.
Because it appear to be the same rules in a slightly different format/layout, basically. I'm not exactly upset, but it does rankle in the same way that GW's approach does.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Polonius wrote: And it's becoming clearer that Mantic is shutting itself off from normal communication channels, at least based on people's posts here.
What mantic should be doing is rolling out articles, videos, and podcasts that actually help people use their product. Examples:
1) a visual checklist for all parts, so backers can inventory their boxes
2) assembly guides, explaining what parts go where
3) Videos on the hot water method, gap filling, and other tricks to overcome the limits of restic
Instead, we hear about another bloody kickstarter. I'm getting tired of hoping the next stuff will be good. I want to make the best out of what I have, and I'd like it if Mantic did something to help that out.
1/2/3 are all so bloody obvious that it's a wonder why they haven't done them. It also appears that James has dropped off the radar, but I'm sure he'll magically reappear when it's KS time again.
CptJake wrote: Why bother joining a forum just to chastise folks?
He asked a question and established he was new and where his opinions on matter lies which informs why he's asking his questions. There's no need to be rude in return, as that doesn't help anything and stands a good chance of keeping our community narrow. Tolerance with new people, or else they'll never become old people.
So then, why DOES nkelsch black knight (if that's not the term it should be) in every Mantic thread? Because he had a bad experience and he wants others to be aware of it.
Black Hat (Critical) thinking is a good thing. nkelsch might go overboard at times, but then again, so do many of the Yellow Hat (Optimistic) thinkers.
Polonius wrote: And it's becoming clearer that Mantic is shutting itself off from normal communication channels, at least based on people's posts here.
What mantic should be doing is rolling out articles, videos, and podcasts that actually help people use their product. Examples:
1) a visual checklist for all parts, so backers can inventory their boxes
2) assembly guides, explaining what parts go where
3) Videos on the hot water method, gap filling, and other tricks to overcome the limits of restic
Instead, we hear about another bloody kickstarter. I'm getting tired of hoping the next stuff will be good. I want to make the best out of what I have, and I'd like it if Mantic did something to help that out.
1/2/3 are all so bloody obvious that it's a wonder why they haven't done them. It also appears that James has dropped off the radar, but I'm sure he'll magically reappear when it's KS time again.
So, everyone missed the post where I pointed out that they've already done 1) and 3) with a link to the former and a great big embedded video for the latter?
And Mantic is no longer a complete newcomer, as they started rolling out Elves in what, 2009?
Five years and three (four if you count Loka, which you should) Kickstarters later, having basic logistics break down is worrying.
Compare this to the Reaper Kickstarter, which had slightly fewer moving parts, but a far higher success rate of correct shipments. Those models also all managed to meet or even exceed expectations, but that's a topic for another day.
I'm a big fan of Mantic. I thougth they showed a lot of promise early on, I thought the Kickstarters drummed up a lot of excitement, and I think KoW is a rock solid game thats a ton of fun. The Deadzone minis, while plagued by casting flaws, are great looking and ooze character. I've money in the pot here, so to speak, and I want them to succeed.
That all said, and I do think Deadzone is a great product, it's not something that Mantic needed to make. They want to make and sell big armies. I want to buy and build big armies. Deadzone is a great little skirmish game, and the market needed it. But I'm still waiting on Mantic to deliver on what they said they wanted to do all along.
Polonius wrote: And Mantic is no longer a complete newcomer, as they started rolling out Elves in what, 2009?
Correct, this year they'll have been around for 5 years. Time flies!
I'd agree that I'm impatient to see them getting back to the "building big armies" tagline.
I think they found that skirmish/board games make more money and more people are interested in them though.
You only have to produce a few different models in restic to make a board game, whereas a wargame requires a much larger investment.
Think Mantic's largest mistake was not launching the company with a sci-fi system instead of a Fantasy one. Market for sci-fi is much larger than fantasy.
Look at all the companies making 3rd party "not-40k" stuff, and compare them to the companies making "not Fantasy" stuff.. there's a lot more of the former.
Heh. Nice way to say "Kickstarter backers won't be getting this one, sorry!"
Well, I mean, why would we? It wasn't part of the Kickstarter. I feel I have about as much right to getting it for 'free' was I would the new Dreadball scenario pack thing.
Because it appear to be the same rules in a slightly different format/layout, basically. I'm not exactly upset, but it does rankle in the same way that GW's approach does.
Right but we got all the Deadzone rules for free in pdf format. (or at least I did - at my striker pledge level, I believe)... i don't even think it was a stretch goal was it? It was just like "Season 2 is here now! And everyone gets the PDF for free!" So someone giving me something for free, and then a year later, a new and improved version of it comes out... I don't feel entitled to get it for free and I certainly don't feel rankled that I don't get it for free. and Mantic said anyone who paid money for the PDF's from Wargames Vault or wherever gets whatever $$ the spent on the PDF's as credit towards the newfangled app version. The situation of "whatever money you spent on the previous version is credit you get towards the new product" seems 100% reasonable to me.
I wanna see what they do with the KoW book. With the increasing likely hood that I'll get a tablet eventually... wouldn't mind picking up a full rulebook, especially if they deluxe it with the expansion books.
hey everybody I posted to the Mantic facebook page saying that Mantic should check out the sheer number of complaints here regarding missing parts and non-responsiveness and James replied with:
"Hi Doug, James here.
Sorry to hear there’s been a bit of unrest! As I’m sure you’re aware, we’ve been incredibly busy since just before Christmas, so there’s a bit of a backlog of messages. However, we are getting there! Our contact forms (the emails that come through the website) are about two weeks behind at the minute; Sarah’s working as hard as she can, and is getting support from other team members to clear the messages. The Order Query Survey is being partitioned up depending on what sort of order it was; the LOKA Kickstarter ones and the website orders are currently being worked on, with DreadBall coming next, followed by Deadzone after the end of January. We left them until the end of January (and let people know they would have until then to complete the survey) so that anyone who got presents for Christmas but had a missing part or two had the chance to go through everything and see what’s missing. Once we’re past the deadline, we’ll get them printed out and handled by the warehouse.
Please don’t think I’m ignoring anyone because I think they’re “small potatoes”; it’s just that I’m as busy as everyone else is, so I don’t have time to go to each of the online forums and deal with everyone individually! We’ve set up the central contact point – that is, the “Contact Us” part of the website – so that everything comes through to a single location and gets dealt with in turn. Everyone who’s submitted something to either the Contact Form or the Order Survey Query will get an answer, there just might be a short wait while we get to them.
2 weeks behind and they have not hit DreadBall feth ups yet? I don't think 2 weeks is accurate. Especially as mine was submitted via email late November then by their form very early December.
CptJake wrote: 2 weeks behind and they have not hit DreadBall feth ups yet? I don't think 2 weeks is accurate. Especially as mine was submitted via email late November then by their form very early December.
Oh well, I'm sure they'll eventually get to it.
I'm not making excuses, but sometimes stuff just gets lost. Or maybe they focused on DZ stuff instead of DB.
I'd let them get their heads above water and resubmit. It'd be ideal if they would respond quicker, but at this point I'd worry about trying to get a good response.
I received a reply to my Deadzone missing items submission.
Hello!
Just a quick message to let you know that we have received your LOKA missing item request through the missing bits form and have begun processing them. We will be in touch if there are any additional details we need, otherwise we will be sending your missing bits as quickly as we can.
Thank you for your patience.
Thanks,
Sarah Clark
Customer Support
www.manticgames.com
Dr Mathias wrote: I received a reply to my Deadzone missing items submission.
Hello! Just a quick message to let you know that we have received your LOKA missing item request through the missing bits form and have begun processing them. We will be in touch if there are any additional details we need, otherwise we will be sending your missing bits as quickly as we can. Thank you for your patience. Thanks, Sarah Clark Customer Support www.manticgames.com
I didn't back LOKA though...
I just got that too (about 6 minutes ago), not sure if it is referencing my DreadBall or DeadZone submission. I also did not back LOKA.
These folks really instill confidence in their ability to address issues....
The previous email was only intended to go to people who had a problem with their LOKA Kickstarter, but was accidently sent to the entire list of people who have submitted missing parts surveys.
We will be looking at DreadBall next followed by Deadzone. We will email those people as we process their surveys.
I apologise for the mix up, thank you for your understanding.
I had me complaint form answered in about 5 days when i sent it in about a missing piece from a Rebs starter I bought at retail from a FLGS. In the response they assured me they would get me the missing part. Its been over 2 weeks and I still haven't seen it. Starting to get discouraged.
I'm not the most vocal guy on this forum, but I've been around for a bit and have always supported Mantic. I'm starting to really struggle justifying my support the way their customer service has been recently.
If Mantic just slowed it down, double checked things, half their problems would be solved.
I can only imagine the loss of revenue due to packing errors. Even if you take one tenth of the people that submitted to the packaging error poll, that's still not an acceptable loss in retail shipping.
Heck my entire order got missed leet alone an email about mising parts, definitely possible to get clerical errored to death, maybe some other emails got buried or lost when they changed their system up. Still sucks that peoples aren't hearing back, I dont have that particular complaint so far..
Think Mantic's largest mistake was not launching the company with a sci-fi system instead of a Fantasy one.
Would be funny if they made proper futuristic armies and then a year later tried to also peddle them as fantasy models by throwing in a sprue of swords and shields...
The previous email was only intended to go to people who had a problem with their LOKA Kickstarter, but was accidently sent to the entire list of people who have submitted missing parts surveys.
We will be looking at DreadBall next followed by Deadzone. We will email those people as we process their surveys.
I apologise for the mix up, thank you for your understanding.
Thanks,
S.C.
Customer Support
Automatically Appended Next Post: And by "sorted" I mean "we're 3 Kickstarters behind on responding to missing part queries."
At the current course? Set sail for fail mateys! Being able to gak out projects in rapid succession with this amount of trouble does wonders for a reputation. Makes me all the more reluctant about their upcoming not-40k range KS.
That's kind of what happens when you run full tilt forward and care not one whit where you wind up. They can't even keep straight which Kickstarter clusterfeth they're addressing anymore.
If one person at Mantic HQ had the brains that God gave a turnip, they'd hold off on the next Kickstarter until they get caught up with what they screwed up 2 years ago. I'm glad I didn't ask for my missing KoW stuff because I'd apparently still be waiting....and then receive LOKA instead or something else equally asinine.
I am truly amazed that they can continue to make errors this huge and stay in business. This can only mean that they've got some truly large margins on their miniatures. Costs related to all of the free product and shipping that they're having to pay to replace shoddy or missing product would beggar most small to medium sized companies.
Unfortunately this all comes back to Mantic's insistence that their KS ship by the estimated shipping date no matter what so they can use that as a big selling point in their next KS - "We always ship on time" (we just make a mess of most of those orders in order to get them out the door - or we changed materials as metal is quicker and easier for us to make). The we ship on time isn't going to fly anymore if it project needs another month or 2 to sort out, delay it and get it right first time no one will remember the delay much if the product is done correctly.
I think at this stage if they are still only sorting KoW, Loka and Dreadball out they shouldn't even be contmeplating launching Dreadball Extreme next month and I say that as someone who is still looking forward to it get your last 3 or 4 KS straight first then launch. a DBX KS in march or April will still fund and deliver by what November? any way we all know most of the work is already done and this is just to get funds in to manufacture it.
Mantic need to slow down and start doing things properly. They need to start labeling stuff before throwing it into boxes haphazardly. They need to check stuff thoroughly before sending it out they need to ensure they can sort out the issues with the kick-starter they are working on before doing two more. They need to have more realistic shipping dates that are at least a month or two later than they expect to be able to fulfil.
The fact that mantic seem to be yet to do a kickstarter without messing up something be that sculpts, missing parts and models for a large number of customers, moulds, bad communication, change of materials etc does not inspire confidence.
I am not saying this because I dislike mantic on the contrary I want them to do well but it just seems they are running so fast they cant help but trip over everything while they do so.
No.. Dreadball Ultimate is the box set with the 4 Giants, and the 6 player stadium..
I have spent some time on the phone now with CoolStuff.. they contacted their distributor and evidently they did not get enough product so, they chose whom got it.. and CSI was not allocated any or enough.. so, they are awaiting their distributor to get them product..
) so let the countdown begin.........
he/she found on the sidewalk, and it was only after valiant efforts on the part of Mantic that we got the disturbingly humanoid ape nuns.
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