Pictures!: http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2012/09/19/40k-comikaze-pictures/
Video! http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2012/09/18/comikaze-cosplay-video-very-cool/
Results! http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2012/09/17/comikaze-2012-results/




Comikaze is one of the most unique, enjoyable tournaments we've ever had the pleasure to be a part of. This is one you certainly do not want to miss, trust us!

Schedule:

Saturday, Sept 15

Registration: 9am
Round 1: 10am-12:15
Lunch: 12:15-12:45
Round 2: 12:45-3:00
Round 3:15-5:30

Sunday, Sept 16

Round 4: 10am-12:15
Lunch: 12:15-12:45
Round 5: 12:45-3:00
Awards: 3:30pm



Purchase Tickets Here Tickets are $60, which includes full admission to the Con!
General Event Information Here.
Tournament Guidelines can be found Here.
Pictures from last Year can be seen Here.

The winner enjoying the spoils of victory!

I may have missed it in my first read through but what time do you plan to start up each morning? Trying to decide if I can sleep at home or not...

10am start time, both days. We'll start registration at 9am.

I'll add that to the first post.

Reece

I cannot emphasize enough how cool this event is! It is one of kind of Tournament.

Imagine a mini-Comic-Con experience with 40k. Great fun and great time!

Just think you get the convention with 40k tournament most events around that size cost about 50-60 bucks anyway!

Just remember that Christian ALWAYS steals the initiative, and you'll enjoy yourselves more.

I do like that picture, with an extra-tall Reece standing impassively in the background.

always...

Dave_Fay wrote:always...

I warned you!

Hahah, Dave, we ALL warned you he was going to steal the dang initiative again!

3 games in a row, that was nuts!

And yeah, this seriously is one of the coolest events in gaming, period.

Just so much gong on, super fun, great guys to game with and yeah, hottie cos play girls!

I only look tall in that picture because I'm standing on a chair! haha, trying to peep the ladies =)

Like it says, only 64 spots for this because of space restrictions, so don't wait as this one will fill up.

Can't wait for this, definitely excited for it!

This event was so much fun last year, it seriously brought 40k back to life for me, anyone who is thinking about going should, well run and great games. I had a great run with my deathwing last year ,but ill be taking 'Nids this year.

Looking forward to having you again, deanthedespoiler.

Everyone should not miss out on this event. Its crazy crazy fun. We enjoyed running/ being at this event a lot last year. Lots of beautiful babes to look at too haha

She Who Must Be Obeyed has given her august permission for me to attend again. I'll send in my Reg and payment on the 17th (next payday for me).
Hope to see you all at the event...it really is a blast and very well run.

Any word on whether or not there'll be a streamlined way to get in the hall this year? That was definitely a bit of a bummer last time (waiting in line with the regular con attendees).

yakface wrote:
Any word on whether or not there'll be a streamlined way to get in the hall this year? That was definitely a bit of a bummer last time (waiting in line with the regular con attendees).

Definitely this.

Also, I wish Comikaze would get their site together; my wife might be interested in attending (which would let me come down there), but their "Events" section is a coming soon placeholder.

@dkellyj

Awesome, good to have you again this year, bud! Will the purple marines be in attendance to defend their painting award this year?

@Yakface

Yes, we addressed this. We will have our own registration table this year.

@Janthkin

Yeah, they are experiencing growing pains this year I think, they are very ambitious in their growth plans on while I admire their ambition, they certainly do have a few ragged edges.

More than worth the the logistical hiccups though, IMO. This seriously is the most unique tournament I have ever been to/been a part of.

Yeah, probably the purple marines again...maybe with some buddies along for support and what-not.

Are there still tickets available? I got the green light to go to thi,s just be aware that this is 2 weeks before Natalie is due so I may have to pull out if the baby comes early but that is pretty unlikely.

Darn this is too close to the Golden Throne, cant get another weekend off especially since I took my one-year anniversary off too. GRRR and I loved this event last time!! Have fun guys!

@overwatchcnc

Yes, as of last time I checked, still tickets left. And congratz! Soooo many jokes to be made about babies and yoh might having to pull out, haha, but I'll refrain myself :-)

Of course we understand you might not make it, family first.

@fuegan

Bummer! But we understand. If you can pull it off somehow, I'm sure you can hitch a ride with some of the gang.

I'm planning on coming but damn I got alot of orks to paint! (It feels like when I just started 40k )

Janthkin wrote:Also, I wish Comikaze would get their site together; my wife might be interested in attending (which would let me come down there), but their "Events" section is a coming soon placeholder.

This remains an issue.

@Grimgob

Yeah, buddy! See you there! I am loving my Orks right now, they are so much fun.

@Janthkin

Unfortunately I don't have control over the website but I can for sure let the webmaster know what's going on.

If you have Facebook and like their page, they are very active there with updates on who's coming, events, etc.

I don't Facebook.

The real question is, should I drive down from NorCal at 3am or slum it on the streets of West Hollywood overnight? I wanna go but I don't wanna pay for a hotel!

Janthkin wrote:I don't Facebook.

Insanity I say, insanity!

Thanks for checking for me Reece, I'll pick up a ticket soon. You don't have to refrain from jokes on my behalf but Yakface and the Mods might have a thing or two to say about it...

Dogstar34 wrote:The real question is, should I drive down from NorCal at 3am or slum it on the streets of West Hollywood overnight? I wanna go but I don't wanna pay for a hotel!

I'm probably going and if you promise not to murder me in my sleep you can bum it on my couch.

Couch surfing!

@Janthkin

No Facebook? Haha, I'm pretty sure even Osama had a Facebook and he lived in a cave!

@Overwatch

All good! Just pulling out and baby in the same post is just asking for an off color joke! hahaha

SpitfireArsonist wrote:

Dogstar34 wrote:The real question is, should I drive down from NorCal at 3am or slum it on the streets of West Hollywood overnight? I wanna go but I don't wanna pay for a hotel!

I'm probably going and if you promise not to murder me in my sleep you can bum it on my couch.

For a spilt moment I was gunna make the same offer but I'm pretty sure the wife wouldnt take you on your word (you know, not to kill us and all )

@Reece I don't Facebook either. If I wanted to still talk to my friends and family that I don't talk to that much... I would (plus theres that creepy data mining thing).

Question about allowable armies, when you say forgeworld units are allowed but not forgeworld army list, what does this mean exactly? For example, can eldar corsair wasps & hornets models and rules be used? is the IA book required to play? Can proxies for these be used?

Lots of questions but will appreciate the response. Looking forward to play in this GT.

Thanks!

If the Chaos codex does indeed come out on September 8th will it be allowed in this tournament? I am not looking to bandwagon I just want to know if I need to make sure I buy it immediately and read all the way through it. If so how liberal will you be with allowing players to "counts as" the new models?

OverwatchCNC wrote:If the Chaos codex does indeed come out on September 8th will it be allowed in this tournament? I am not looking to bandwagon I just want to know if I need to make sure I buy it immediately and read all the way through it. If so how liberal will you be with allowing players to "counts as" the new models?

Grats on 2nd Place last Tournament at GE. Hopefully we get to play next time. I wanted to see how my Unholy Footdar would fare against your air cavalry!

@Levi

Hey, I am an old timer too, and even I have a Facebook! Just kidding man, like I said, not much I can do about the content on their site as that is not my responsibility. Comikaze is a BIG event, and each person involved has one small part to play. We are just the humble minis coordinators.

@mikkoboi

On the player packet that we put together it explains everything. But, in short: you can use ANY Forgeworld unit that is not a super heavy or gargantuan creature.

You must have the most recent version of the rules on hand to use the model, including FAQ's, Erratas etc. We as TO's will have everything, but won't allow players to use our copies.

You can proxy, but the substitute model must be VERY close in size and shape to the original. We won't be lenient about this at all. If we think it is not a close enough match, we won't allow it. Send us a picture of what you are planning ahead of time to avoid disappointment if you think it's questionable.

We have a Minotaurs player coming with their chapter master from the Baddab war book, which will be very cool!

@OverwatchCNC

That is 1 week prior to the event. We will discuss if we will allow it as that is really close, but I think we will as it is such a big release (lots of folks will want to play it) and everything we've seen on the rules indicate that it won't be that big of a change from what we had.

I'll get back to you today on that after we've had a chance to talk about it.

@ Reece

Thank you sir! Yeah I was reading the packet and I wasn't very sure as to how I was interpreting it. There was a statement there that clearly states that "Forgeworld Armies will NOT be allowed", so I had to bring it up. So basically you MAY field an all Forgeworld army/units, just not superheavies/gargantuan.

Can't wait to play in this. This will be my first GT if ever.

I just bought my ticket. Catch you fools there.

@mikkoboi

Sweet! This is a super cool tournament, and feel free to ask away, that is what I am here for. We look forward to introducing you to the tournament scene, it is a lot of fun!

@Dok

Awesome, see you there, buddy!

@Thread

We are going to allow the Chaos book for this event. We figured since there is so much new stuff going on, it really won't make that much of a difference. Plus, this will be a hotly anticipated book that a lot of folks will want to play. So long as it comes out on the 8th like we think, the new Chaos dex will be allowed.

Reecius wrote:@mikkoboi

Sweet! This is a super cool tournament, and feel free to ask away, that is what I am here for. We look forward to introducing you to the tournament scene, it is a lot of fun!

@Dok

Awesome, see you there, buddy!

@Thread

We are going to allow the Chaos book for this event. We figured since there is so much new stuff going on, it really won't make that much of a difference. Plus, this will be a hotly anticipated book that a lot of folks will want to play. So long as it comes out on the 8th like we think, the new Chaos dex will be allowed.

Awesome! I look forward to playing against it! What was your decision about counts as for the new models in the book. For example the dragon or the new type of oblits? If the models aren't out yet what are your expectations, and what should our expectations as players be, for how the new units should be represented in game? I just want to make it clear so we all know prior to a game what is expected, I am completely in favor of the book being allowed I just don't want to run into a situation where someone is basically proxying wraiths for oblits or something like that.

Reecius wrote:

We are going to allow the Chaos book for this event. We figured since there is so much new stuff going on, it really won't make that much of a difference. Plus, this will be a hotly anticipated book that a lot of folks will want to play. So long as it comes out on the 8th like we think, the new Chaos dex will be allowed.

That is a bad idea. Do you know how many rules issues of a codex do not come out until a week or two (or more) later?

Do you see how many mistakes people are still making with the new rulebook? For an example every flyer I have ever shot at has taken a jink save (without evading). And they have been able to do it because they do not understand the rule, and I did not see it until a couple of days ago. How many posts here have you seen with people who have lost games because a rule has been played wrong, and their opponent did not know any better?

There is a reason why most tournaments have a 30 day waiting period. 7 days is not enough time for people to buy it, read it and understand it fully.

It could go either way. I'm sure some people will break out their chaos armies, but it will be hard to make a competitive list and practice it in that short of a time frame. But you bring up a good point Blackmoor, neither person will be familiar with the rules in the book so games are going to be won and lost on misunderstandings.

I think the biggest deal will be the potential rules problems and the rumored new warlord traits and spell list. People who don't buy the book that week will have almost no idea what that stuff does which will not let them plan for it.

@OverwatchCNC

We don't allow proxies. Scratchbuilds and custom conversions are fine, but not Wraiths as Oblits, for example. If no Dragon model is out, that is unfortunate.

@Blackmoor and Dok

I hear what you guys are saying, but so close to 6th ed, people are going to be making mistakes no matter what. The way we are looking at it right now is what's a little more unfamiliarity? I honestly don't think it is gong to be a big deal.

Plus we as TOs will have read the hell out of the book and will be ready to answer any questions.

We would rather err on the side of fun and include it than the side of caution in this case. If we were further into 6th ed, we would go the conservative route, but as of now, what's a little more chaos? Pun intended! Har, har, har!

I'll be getting my ticket tomorrow. As for the new chaos book; Old heretics, new heretics, it matters not. If it burns, we will purge them.

@Reece: For sure, You guys may want to take a page from the golden throne GT and try and work out any rules inconsistencies ahead of time and post a FAQ to your site. It would be way helpful for most people imo.

@Sharkticon

It'll be good to have you again, buddy!

@Dok

Yeah, good idea. We will do that for sure.

I think we will also use their idea of having rounds only for finals so that folks can go home early if they don't make it that far. That was a really good idea and it worked well.

Got my ticket today. Looking forward to the fun and eye-candy.

I didn't get a chance to play last year so I might have to play this time around.

@Kelly

Looking forward to having you!

@Dugg

You better be there, punk!

Hey Reece - if a non-40k player is accompanying me to the con, can they sneak in via your 40k reg desk?

Just got my Ticket! @Reece do you have a headcount?

haha, "punk"

Got my ticket, I'm excited already.

This looks like it'll be my first 40k event out on the West Coast, as well as my first GT.

-Ian

@Janthkin

I can't guarantee it, but you know I have no problem bending rules to help you guys out! haha

I should be able to pull that off though. I'll speak with the even organizer.

@Alex

I will get that info today if possible and let you guys know. We're going to cap at 64 though, due to space restrictions.

@Loch

Awesome! Looking forward to having you!

Hopefully we will be playing in that cage again. It gave a wonderful view of all the eye-candy (and that HUUUGE throng of people when Stan Lee showed up) while keeping the riff-raff at arms length and out of the actual game zone.

Yes, we will have a barrier up, and this year we will be upstairs in the next level, which will have carpet to help deal with the noise issues.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grab your tickets soon, guys, the event organizers are telling us this event is filling fast!

Hey guys, just wanted to make sure you were grabbing those tickets! Space is limited, and you don't want to miss out!

Check out this list of cool celebs that will be there!

http://comikazeexpo.com/celebrities-and-guests/

And BBF is flying out from Florida for the event, and we'll be stoked to have him!

Only a little over 3 weeks to go guys, so be sure not to miss out.

Not to mention this awesome list of events!

Oh, wait. It's STILL empty. Grr.

Got my ticket! Suhweet!

still trying to figer if i wll be able to make this one or not . if i do not make it hope it goes well for all of you

Looking forward to having you mikkoboi!

@Madfjohn

We hope to have you again this year, your Meka Godzilla orks were awesome last year and definitely fit the event!

So, we've got folks flying in from Florida and Texas, this is looking to be awesome!

Grab those tickets, not a lot of space!

Hey guys,

Just booked our room at the Ritz Milner. It's walking distance to the event, has breakfast, parking (we're in downtown LA, that helps a ton!) we stayed there last year and it's a cool old hotel.

They still have room and a double is only $89 a night.

If anyone else wants to stay there, that is a good choice.

http://losangeles.milner-hotels.com/accomodations-standard.html

See you all there!

I just want to know where the party's gonna be at, haha

So it turns out the one Sunday a year I am contractually obligated to go to church by my job (I am a Catholic school teacher) is the 16th at 10am. Needless to say I won't be able to make it to Comikaze after all, good luck everyone!

@Dok

It's in downtown LA, so the party will be easy to find, I am sure!

@Overwatch

You'll be missed, too bad you can't make it.

Dude like totally OMG I am really digging the "VIBE" of this thread even though after three pages I only have a very fuzzy idea of what this is about!! It's some kind of cool tournament type thing, right?

Where can I learn more? Where can I buy tix?

Edit: NM, found all the infoz I needed to know. Suhweet. Just a short hop down the 10 from WeLA and I am durr.

@Xeno
You should get your tix. It's going to be my very first GT so It's going to be fun!

@Xeno

Feel free to ask me any questions you may have as well! It wold be great to have you.

 Reecius wrote:
@Xeno

Feel free to ask me any questions you may have as well! It wold be great to have you.

Yes, is that dark haired hottie in the pic in the first post one of the prizes? If so, I'm signing up yesterday and bringing the cheesiest list the world has ever seen (which I actually don't even own yet, so will have to go out and buy!)

Hahaha, if she were, I would sandbag all you guys and cheat my way to victory with no guilt, what-so-ever! haha

She is a member of Team Unicorn, they will be there again this year and I hope to convince them to hand out prizes for us again this year as they were awesome last year. Nice girls and they actually know their nerdy stuff, too!

 Janthkin wrote:
Just remember that Christian ALWAYS steals the initiative, and you'll enjoy yourselves more.

I do like that picture, with an extra-tall Reece standing impassively in the background.

There is nothing impassive about Reece. It looks to me like he is about ready to pounce.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ Reece - If I was going to bring a Brittani(s) "Team Manager(s)" how would we deal with badges?

It looks like I will be coming again, but this time I'll be playing. B)

Got my Ticket!

Yeah, Dugg! You bringing Crons/Orks?

So, may get a thumbs up to go to this since work obligations are keeping me away from Brawl in the Fall. Any word on hotels which are close by or parking if I have to drive a ways? Or should I not be lazy and just click on the Comikaze links and its all there?

Anthony, Vince, and I are making it down! tickets bought and hotel room at the ritz booked, its gonna be a great time!

@bigpig

Most of us are staying at the Ritz Milner, it's close to the venue, cheap for the area ($205 for the weekend for a 2 room) and a nice place with free breakfast!

Hope to see you there!

@IronfrontAlex

Nice, see you guys there!

I was just told by the ticketing reps that there are only 10 tickets left!

Grab yours soon!

Reece

ok got my ticket so will see how the ladz do this time around with new stuff to have fun will.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hay is Table war going to be selling items there this time around?

Stll painting but I have my ticket and I'm ready for my first tourny game in 6th edition.

@John

Those Scottish Orks are AWESOME! Can't wait to see them on the table and glad you can make it!

I know Dugg will be there, and I assume they'll be selling cases.

@Grimgob

Glad you're coming, brotha! Been a while.

i might have more Scotts boyz to bring depending how fast i can paint and asimble.

Those definitely looked awesome!

And grab those tickets! I have been told there's still a few left, hope to see you all there!

Got my ticket!

Curious if anyone has crash space Friday Night I got Sat taken care, but no place on Friday will throw down on hotel monies.

Send me a PM

-Nick

Almost there! Looking forward to seeing everyone! Still some space if you want to grab those tickets!

 Reecius wrote:
Almost there! Looking forward to seeing everyone! Still some space if you want to grab those tickets!

Remember to drive SLOWLY, Reece.

If I play Christian I am going to seperate him from his lucky red dice to slow him down some.

I will be bringing some mismatched goofiness of pain. .... still gluing stuff down and last minute painting.

See you guys tomorrow!

Its not a tournament if you dont show up with a little dried paint on your fingers (I'm still painting too)

Any updates?

I was reading that the lines were around the block to get in. Did that affect you guys at all?

 Dok wrote:
I was reading that the lines were around the block to get in. Did that affect you guys at all?

Nope, but good luck getting something to eat.

Thats why some people thought ahead and brought a sack lunch. By the way I realize my two major mistakes in our game I gave you (not to take away from your skill cause you got plenty of that). I can't wait till our next game as you say my 6th edition play wont be so rusty

Having a great time with 2 loses and a lucky game with tasty taste realy more peeps need to go to this event the cose play waching is the best part besides playing the gt

results and review?

I wasn't there this year and I'd love to see the new data.

qty players
armies played
standings
lists
etc.

 Dave_Fay wrote:
results and review?

I wasn't there this year and I'd love to see the new data.

qty players
armies played
standings
lists
etc.

Seconded.
I found myself constantly deploring my contract all weekend which kept me away from being able to play. In the end having a career wins out but still... Plastic crack is hard to give up

1st place was IG and was the only army to go 5-0. He ran several of the plama cannon lemon russes.

2nd place was me with Eldar/Dark Eldar.

3rd place was Michael H. who ran pure Mech Dark Eldar.


They had about 32 players

30 or so players. Best General went to a scary IG list with lots and lots of FW anti-air lascannon platforms.

My tyranids went 3-2, losing two games to some mech DE players who apparently haven't heard that "mech is dead" in sixth; I they both finished 4-1. The first game I had a couple of chances to win; the second game, I still don't think there is anything I could have done to change the outcome (7 Venoms, 2 Ravagers, and a Void Raven, all with Night Shields, in a Hammer & Anvil deployment).

 Blackmoor wrote:
1st place was IG and was the only army to go 5-0. I think the player's name was Shane? He ran several of the plama cannon lemon russes.

2nd place was me with Eldar/Dark Eldar.

3rd place was Michael H. who ran pure Mech Dark Eldar.


They had about 32 players

1st Place Guy's name was Vince (Can't remember last name) IG with FW Lascannon Sabres and mass troops on top of those russes.

Damn Allan, for the second time... Looking forward to the rematch. Gratz!

wow no necrons in the top 3.

 Dave_Fay wrote:
wow no necrons in the top 3.

Necrons were playing for all the marbles in round 5...but it was a flyer-spam list, against 6 FW Sabres + a quad gun, all behind an Aegis line, on a Hammer & Anvil deployment.

He still had the chance to pull it out, and screwed up his last turn of movement.

Didnt those FW sabres have like 20 attached guardsmen each. Thats alot of T7 wounds to take out!

So for those of us who do not know, what book is the "Sabres" in? I can find pictures on the FW web page but not the rules.

Thanks
Doc

My only complaint for the event was the setup of the tables. Having the entire gaming area blocked off was a major determent for watching any games. I completely understand not wanting your games bothered by the masses, but not being able to comfortably watch a game made me lose interest quickly.

The lack of CSM armies made me a sad panda too. Although, I think I saw someone playing a CSM army with an IG ally force at one point on Saturday. Hopefully the new dex makes them more competitive for future tournaments.

Tastytaste brought Chaos, but I think at this point everyone is waiting for the new codex.

 Grimgob wrote:
Didnt those FW sabres have like 20 attached guardsmen each. Thats alot of T7 wounds to take out!

Do Sabres have Interceptor?

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

 Grimgob wrote:
Didnt those FW sabres have like 20 attached guardsmen each. Thats alot of T7 wounds to take out!

Do Sabres have Interceptor?

I remember speaking with him and AFAIK no, they are twin linked though. and I believe he had 4 or more of those + quad gun all behind the aegis.

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

 Grimgob wrote:
Didnt those FW sabres have like 20 attached guardsmen each. Thats alot of T7 wounds to take out!

Do Sabres have Interceptor?

Who knows?

That is why you do not have forge world in tournaments. Even people with the books have not idea where they are, or what they do. It does seem like they helped him win the win the tournament though.

This brings up another good reason why you should not have forgeworld in tournaments. It is not like guard have no options to take out flyers (Vendettas, Hydras etc) but Forgeworld has a ton of IG and SM equipement and the Xenos get thrown a bone here and there. The rich armies get richer, and the poor arimes get poorer.

SM are the 1%!! Occupy Macragge!!!

 Dok wrote:
SM are the 1%!! Occupy Macragge!!!

FETH YOU! PULL YOURSELF UP BY YOUR BOOTSTRAPS AND BUILD YOUR OWN EMPIRE!!!! DON"T PUNISH SUCCESS!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On a more serious note, sorry I couldn't make it after all. I ended up with work Saturday and couldn't attend.

Sabres do have interceptor- they cost less than 3 marines for an autocannon sabre with skyfire and interceptor that takes the place of heavy weapons teams! Rules can be found in Imperial Armour Aeronautica.

Pretty dang good, but Aeronautica has some other good AA. Sadly most xenos are still stuck with flyers for their skyfire needs

I found these rule for it online.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/Impgupdate.pdf

They might be old but there is no date on them. I bet I could find more rules for them and then I get to pick and choose which rules I get to use. These seem to be vehicles, did that changes with the Aeronautica book?

I had a great time! It was good seeing all the Usual Suspects again and meeting some new bloods. I won’t lie, I was worried going into this event about how 6th was going to effect the Tournament scene but I’m happy to say I had 5 really fun and exciting games. Thanks again to all of my opponents and I hope to see you across the table again at the next big Event.
This Event was awesome and I will be going again next year for sure. Thanks again Frontline and Crew.

 Blackmoor wrote:

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

 Grimgob wrote:
Didnt those FW sabres have like 20 attached guardsmen each. Thats alot of T7 wounds to take out!

Do Sabres have Interceptor?

Who knows?

That is why you do not have forge world in tournaments. Even people with the books have not idea where they are, or what they do. It does seem like they helped him win the win the tournament though.

This brings up another good reason why you should not have forgeworld in tournaments. It is not like guard have no options to take out flyers (Vendettas, Hydras etc) but Forgeworld has a ton of IG and SM equipement and the Xenos get thrown a bone here and there. The rich armies get richer, and the poor arimes get poorer.

He had the current FW book on hand (Aueronotica, or however you spell it) for the Sabre rules; he allowed me to read the rules for them before we made a single roll; I didn't really have an issue with them. This same argument could be made for new stuff like Bastions, and older codexs you don't see on the field that much, like, oh say, Eldar? :-) I can't speak for the other players, but I really don't think they made that much of a difference in my game with him. He had a very solid list, one that really seemed to be geared to take on all-comers.

Had a great time at the event, playing Blackmoor made for a very fun game.

"Barrel or mounting?"

 Blackmoor wrote:
I found these rule for it online.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/Impgupdate.pdf

They might be old but there is no date on them. I bet I could find more rules for them and then I get to pick and choose which rules I get to use. These seem to be vehicles, did that changes with the Aeronautica book?

Yeah all artillery are no longer vehicles. The rules are similar but the Aeronautica update made them cheaper

Blackmoor, stop your whining! hahaha, you had fun despite your public opposition to FW. You were laughing and enjoying yourself so I officially object to your pessimism.

There was quite a bit of Forgeworld and it was NO BIG DEAL AT ALL. In fact, of everyone we asked, everyone was happy to have it, particularly the 4, yes 4, Tau players who all had Tetras. FW made it a more enjoyable experience for the majority of players.

Vince, the winner, had the rules for the Sabres on hand to show his opponents and we did too, as TO's. ANyone who wanted to read them could very, very easily.

They have skyfire, interceptor and they are twin linked. They are immobile and they are taken as a Heavy Weapon Squad in a IG blob. That means they are a team of 3 guns, not in a blob. You can target them individually and destroy them.

Why is this awesome? Anyone who can take IG allies, can get them. That means affordable, effective AA for a LOT of the armies in the game.

And they helped make the game between the IG and the Cron Airforce a close game instead of a wipe out.

Tastey was playing Crons, not Chaos. Danny Afleje was playing Chaos/IG allies.

@Spitfire Arsonist

I understand your complaints, but our #1 priority is to our attendees first and last. As an observer, your needs ranked extremely low on our list! haha, no offense intended at all, but letting in even a fraction of the 40,000+ attendees at Comikaze into our area would have made it impossible for our attendees to play the game.

It would be awesome to have a viewing area that didn't interfere with the games, but that is not possible from a space and money perspective.

Next year, why not play, then you'll have the best view of what's going on possible!

I will have results up later today.

 Cortez667 wrote:
He had the current FW book on hand (Aueronotica, or however you spell it) for the Sabre rules; he allowed me to read the rules for them before we made a single roll; I didn't really have an issue with them. This same argument could be made for new stuff like Bastions, and older codexs you don't see on the field that much, like, oh say, Eldar? :-)

Bastions are just new. They have a lot of funky rules, but they are in the main rule book, so if you do not have access to it's rules I don't know what to tell you. It is just that a lot of people have not bothered reading them yet (I know I didn't know what they did until I faced one). As far as eldar go, you can have a newer codex and still forget rules (take nightshields for instance) but that was my fault because I knew what they did and I screwed up anyways. The point is that the rules are out there for everyone to be able to access and should have over 5 years of experience playing against that codex unlike FW even if they do not own a copy they still should have access to it at their FLGS.

I can't speak for the other players, but I really don't think they made that much of a difference in my game with him. He had a very solid list, one that really seemed to be geared to take on all-comers.

I am glad that I did not face that army. I played another army that was just like it a few weeks ago and those Leman Russes are brutal.

Had a great time at the event, playing Blackmoor made for a very fun game.

"Barrel or mounting?"

I am recording for the 11th Co Podcast tonight and that was my take-away. I will throw it out there to see what people think. Like a lot of rules out there it might not be any clear answer for it though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Reecius wrote:
Blackmoor, stop your whining! hahaha, you had fun despite your public opposition to FW. You were laughing and enjoying yourself so I officially object to your pessimism.

#1. I had fun.
#2. The forge world was not as bad as I had feared.
#3. I still hate forge world in regular games of 40k.

Yep, having the crowd mulling through would have made play impossible. As it was I had more than a few models picked up by the few people who were let in for closer looks. Nothing dropped or broken though.
Also a camera crew came through right at the start of game 5 to film the board next to us. GrimGob and I had to wait about 20 minutes before we got a chance to start because the camera counterweight boom was sweeping across our board. We ended up having to play turn 5 in about 30 seconds just to finish the game (GrimGob won when he killed my last Terminator and was able to consolidate onto an objective and my Belial (who was scoring thanks to Traits) came up short on a Run roll to get to his.
5 great games, including a chance to play Allan for the first time ever (we get to alot of the same events but had never been matched up before).
Plenty of Emo Cos-play babes running around too.

This Event was awesome (Thanks to Reecius and the rest of the Frontline Gaming peeps) and all 5 games were intense and exciting, making my first GT worth it, even if Blackmoore ousted me off on the last game once again (it was fun though, Eldar vs Eldar hotness as Reece called it). Cosplayers were icing on the cake. I'll definitely be there next year!

About the forge world lascannons with 20+ T7 wounds, did they even give 1 kp up all weekend? 6 non stop twin linked str9 ap1 that you can't kill is a liitle over the top.

 Grimgob wrote:
About the forge world lascannons with 20+ T7 wounds, did they even give 1 kp up all weekend? 6 non stop twin linked str9 ap1 that you can't kill is a liitle over the top.

I do not think they are artillery, just a squad heavy weapon upgrade.

If they are artillery, then they are broken and brutal.

dkellyj wrote:
Yep, having the crowd mulling through would have made play impossible. As it was I had more than a few models picked up by the few people who were let in for closer looks. Nothing dropped or broken though.

I'm kinda bummed to hear this. I really wanted to attend this event, but now I am kind of glad I didn't. I would have absolutely lost my gak over this. Will there be anything in place next year to prevent this kind of thing.

It was great having so many new GT players! A lot of you guys were playing your first GT, which was awesome. Mikkoboi and Vince (Ren Man and Tournament Champ) were both first timers! Just goes to show you don't have to cut and past the interwebs to win a GT. Mikkoiboi had a Footdar army (DE/Eldar) Vince had a really different IG list that the average internet pundit would tell you was not optimized.

Here are the results!

http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2012/09/17/comikaze-2012-results/

And because I know folks will ask, the first round shows all the points for your W/L/D record. We score a win at 1000pts, a tie at 500pts and a loss at 0pts. The points achieved during the rounds are added in as bonus points to stratify the field based on points accumulated within a given bracket.

It was also a blast going out Saki bombing with everyone afterwards and making new friends!

Already looking forward to next year, it's going to be awesome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Grimgob

Dude, haha, you guys are spreading misinformation in a big way.

They are a Heavy Weapon Squad, a unit of 3 heavy weapons with 2 crew each. Exactly like an Ork Big Guns unit.

They can't be bought for a Squad of IG. They can't move and if the squad breaks, they all die.

@Blackmoor

Haha, buddy, come on! You don't know what they do and you didn't play against them, how are you calling them broken?

@Xenocidal Maniac

He was saying they WEREN'T in the playing area. We diverted all the looky loos outside of the event and said they could watch from behind the barricades. We didn't let them into the playing area.

That was what Spitfire Arsonist was complaining about, that we made everyone watch from outside the playing area.

I belive he said "if they are artillery they are brutal and broken".. The grots are pretty hard core but Ld 5, no armour, and they die if touched by anything mitagates their strengths (still most point efficent unit in the codex but not broken).
If the sabers are not artillery, I stand corrected. Someone told me they were part of the blob... My bad.

 Janthkin wrote:

 Dave_Fay wrote:
wow no necrons in the top 3.

Necrons were playing for all the marbles in round 5...but it was a flyer-spam list, against 6 FW Sabres + a quad gun, all behind an Aegis line, on a Hammer & Anvil deployment.

He still had the chance to pull it out, and screwed up his last turn of movement.

I not only helped write Vince's list, but he borrowed my FW book and objective markers to win, only to beat me for the win on game five!

Really thought i had the win, but in a very rushed turn 6 I made some faulty (or forgetful) movements which narrowly cost me the win . That I.G list is great though... TOO great if you ask me

Being at the top table in the fith round can put the pressure on. I once fergot to dump a whole wagon of boys out after it blew up when I was frustrated in the same situation.

Hey guys, I have lots of experience against these platforms and know how powerful they are.

Okay the big problem is failing leadership and being auto dead.

BUT a good general will have his lord commisar or regimental flag near by.

Now stick them behind a aegis wall and you have to kill 3 men (you buy 3 grots for 2pts each!) and then 2 wounds per gun. So thats 4 T7 wounds with at least 4+ save before you even damage the '50'pts model.

The reason they are over powered like all artillery in the AA book is because when FW did the book I bet they didnt notice the rules for artillery had changed so its no longer a vehicle or randomised hitting. Remember they were armour 10 with any glance = dead. They were hit on 1-4, men 5-6.

With FW there are a few models which are a bit over powered but these things are way way way way way over powered for their points. As 3 TL lascannons with 3 extra men = 156 compared to 3 lascannons from codex 105pts. 3 TL weapons and toughness 7 models with 4 wounds each for just 51pts more....

Then you also get interceptor and skyfire. Seriously? fluff wise.. guards men are more reactive than a space marine heavy weapons squad...

I even know dirty tactics you can do with them but I wont tell as its so awfully cheesy its stupid.

Best way to fight them is to kill the stuff that helps them past LD tests first and then shoot at them. OR JAWS them = instant death.

Cheers

Chris

Just want to say a huge thanks to Team Zero Comp for organizing a great event! This was my first GT and I'm glad I could make it out to show everybody that 5th edition Venom Spam is happily alive and well

Thanks to my five opponents Nick, Will, Mike, Alex and Kevin for some great games of 40k.
I certainly didn't mind the barricades and cute cosplay spectators one bit, even after one pair jumped the fence to thumb through my codex (turns out they were just curious about the game).

This was an excellent event and I'll definitely be back next year!

-Ian

@Alex

Not too good at all, IMO. Vince got good match-ups, some good luck (he kept hitting things with his MoO! haha) and played very well. It was his weekend!

If he would have played Youngblood's Pod Wolves or Janthkin's Nids I think that would have been really tough for him.

@Ian

Great to have you and glad you had a good time! Welcome to CA!

Vince, IG player who won here.

I didn't expect to get this much flak from other players for NOT bending to the new hotness (Vendetta) and instead sticking with Guardsmen + Tanks.

If there's any questions, I'll settle it as best I can.

They are simply a replacement for a Heavy Weapons Squad, I cannot combine them with squads of infantry, which means they are W2 LD7 at T7 with a 3+ (per Sabre). I lost half of them in 3 out of 5 games, and they really were only effective against what I call the DEldar Yacht Club and Cron Air list.

For the guy who called them overpowered because of their relative cost to the codex HWS, anyone who plays IG knows all too well how pathetically over-costed that squad is. 105 points for what amounts to 6 Guardsmen (T3 5+ LD 7)? I get that hating on IG is always fun for Xeno players, but at least try to be reasonable.

umbo wrote:
Hey guys, I have lots of experience against these platforms and know how powerful they are.

Okay the big problem is failing leadership and being auto dead.

BUT a good general will have his lord commisar or regimental flag near by.

Now stick them behind a aegis wall and you have to kill 3 men (you buy 3 grots for 2pts each!) and then 2 wounds per gun. So thats 4 T7 wounds with at least 4+ save before you even damage the '50'pts model.

The reason they are over powered like all artillery in the AA book is because when FW did the book I bet they didnt notice the rules for artillery had changed so its no longer a vehicle or randomised hitting. Remember they were armour 10 with any glance = dead. They were hit on 1-4, men 5-6.

With FW there are a few models which are a bit over powered but these things are way way way way way over powered for their points. As 3 TL lascannons with 3 extra men = 156 compared to 3 lascannons from codex 105pts. 3 TL weapons and toughness 7 models with 4 wounds each for just 51pts more....

Then you also get interceptor and skyfire. Seriously? fluff wise.. guards men are more reactive than a space marine heavy weapons squad...

I even know dirty tactics you can do with them but I wont tell as its so awfully cheesy its stupid.

Best way to fight them is to kill the stuff that helps them past LD tests first and then shoot at them. OR JAWS them = instant death.

Cheers

Chris

So can someone clarify if they are Heavy weapon teams or artillery? If they only have 6 guys its not so bad but the interceptor, skyfire, twin linked lascannons (if they are artillery) for 50 more points then grot artillery is still a little overpowered.

 Grimgob wrote:

umbo wrote:
Hey guys, I have lots of experience against these platforms and know how powerful they are.

Okay the big problem is failing leadership and being auto dead.

BUT a good general will have his lord commisar or regimental flag near by.

Now stick them behind a aegis wall and you have to kill 3 men (you buy 3 grots for 2pts each!) and then 2 wounds per gun. So thats 4 T7 wounds with at least 4+ save before you even damage the '50'pts model.

The reason they are over powered like all artillery in the AA book is because when FW did the book I bet they didnt notice the rules for artillery had changed so its no longer a vehicle or randomised hitting. Remember they were armour 10 with any glance = dead. They were hit on 1-4, men 5-6.

With FW there are a few models which are a bit over powered but these things are way way way way way over powered for their points. As 3 TL lascannons with 3 extra men = 156 compared to 3 lascannons from codex 105pts. 3 TL weapons and toughness 7 models with 4 wounds each for just 51pts more....

Then you also get interceptor and skyfire. Seriously? fluff wise.. guards men are more reactive than a space marine heavy weapons squad...

I even know dirty tactics you can do with them but I wont tell as its so awfully cheesy its stupid.

Best way to fight them is to kill the stuff that helps them past LD tests first and then shoot at them. OR JAWS them = instant death.

Cheers

Chris

So can someone clarify if they are Heavy weapon teams or artillery? If they only have 6 guys its not so bad but the interceptor, skyfire, twin linked lascannons (if they are artillery) for 50 more points then grot artillery is still a little overpowered.

I can clarify, they are Immobile Artillery.

And the gentleman is incorrect about the number of Guardsmen, there are THREE Guardsmen present when the squad is purchased.

Well played Vince,

Okay 105pts is over priced for the lascannon hw teams.

But are you saying 156pts is a fair price for the guns? btw I play guard and have used them many times

Now if I have the rules right you can do the following.

Stick the 3 extra gun men you buy for 2pts in front of the 3 guns so enemy has to kill these before it can wound the any gun (unless it gets a good flank shot). So it can easily be 5 wounds taken when the first gun actually dies. At toughness 7 with 4+ cover save with men, 3+ armour with the gun. If you do the maths they are incredibly point efficient.

I am not trying to give anyone flak for winning with these at all. I was just trying to explain why I think they are OP and what FW did wrong.

Plus if one of the guns is going to get hit hard by something (deathray, plasma leman etc), well the men who are the closest can go to ground for 2+ cover save. Then be given the order to get back into the fight and fire again. Plus with the orders to make enemies reroll cover saves. Now they dont need the TL order. They are just so good.

And I will say if I was entering a tournament as guard I WOULD take them too.

Cheers

Umbo


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You can buy 3 extra men for 2pts each (1 per platform). why wouldnt you spend these 2pts? extra t7 wound :-)

 Reecius wrote:
@Alex

Not too good at all, IMO. Vince got good match-ups, some good luck (he kept hitting things with his MoO! haha) and played very well. It was his weekend!

If he would have played Youngblood's Pod Wolves or Janthkin's Nids I think that would have been really tough for him.

@Ian

Great to have you and glad you had a good time! Welcome to CA!

It certainly was! but we all had fun and I can't wait for next year. there needs to be more of these tourneys during awesome cons/expos

@Vince

Hey dude, I know you don't go on the internet much, but everyone here is really reasonable, don't take offense to stuff people say. It's super easy to misconstrue what they mean. Give folks the benefit of the doubt and you can avoid silly flame wars.

Congratz on your win!

umbo wrote:
Well played Vince,

Okay 105pts is over priced for the lascannon hw teams.

But are you saying 156pts is a fair price for the guns? btw I play guard and have used them many times

Now if I have the rules right you can do the following.

Stick the 3 extra gun men you buy for 2pts in front of the 3 guns so enemy has to kill these before it can wound the any gun (unless it gets a good flank shot). So it can easily be 5 wounds taken when the first gun actually dies. At toughness 7 with 4+ cover save with men, 3+ armour with the gun. If you do the maths they are incredibly point efficient.

I am not trying to give anyone flak for winning with these at all. I was just trying to explain why I think they are OP and what FW did wrong.

Plus if one of the guns is going to get hit hard by something (deathray, plasma leman etc), well the men who are the closest can go to ground for 2+ cover save. Then be given the order to get back into the fight and fire again. Plus with the orders to make enemies reroll cover saves. Now they dont need the TL order. They are just so good.

And I will say if I was entering a tournament as guard I WOULD take them too.

Cheers

Umbo


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You can buy 3 extra men for 2pts each (1 per platform). why wouldnt you spend these 2pts? extra t7 wound :-)

Because I didn't have the points in my list, and that's not a lie.

I don't believe they can benefit from Go To Ground, since all shooting is resolved against the gun (which obviously is quite large and can't duck).

And no, I honestly don't believe they are overpowered or under-priced. If you consider IG's other AA options (Vendetta, 130 points/ Hydra, 75 points) they fit right in just fine, especially at LD 7 where you only have to knock off one platform to force a test.

Also, you mentioned in your last post that I could've spread the wounds around; I may be mistaken but don't I have to remove models fully before moving to the next one according to the BRB? So really, you only have to force 2 failed 3+ saves to force a test.

yeah I am not looking to annoy anyone with my post. Or put a downer on the win for you. I probably should I done another thread on the platforms later so it didnt do that. sorry for that

 Reecius wrote:
@Vince

Hey dude, I know you don't go on the internet much, but everyone here is really reasonable, don't take offense to stuff people say. It's super easy to misconstrue what they mean. Give folks the benefit of the doubt and you can avoid silly flame wars.

Congratz on your win!

Thanks, I'm not offended in the least and I'm not trying to flame at all, if I am then I hope Umbo and whoever else will accept an apology.

But it did hurt you said my list "Wasn't too good IMO" hahaha.

yeah thats true about the leadership issue. A real killer as you fail and dead.

I put lord commisar with one and create a ld 10 bubble. Or the flag.

I believe the men can go to ground and if you put the men infront of the gun (3 guys you can buy). I think they get the bonus cover save but yeah gun cant go to ground.

I use the lascannons and the heavy stubbers 18 shots :-)

umbo wrote:
yeah thats true about the leadership issue. A real killer as you fail and dead.

I put lord commisar with one and create a ld 10 bubble. Or the flag.

I believe the men can go to ground and if you put the men infront of the gun (3 guys you can buy). I think they get the bonus cover save but yeah gun cant go to ground.

I use the lascannons and the heavy stubbers 18 shots :-)

I was looking at the stubbers actually in case I ever decide to add more platforms. Not only do they look good but they seem like they'd be pretty solid anti-infantry.

reroll cover saves order.

goodbye orks or nids hoards.

Which seem to more popular

@Vince

I wasn't implying that you were flipping out, sorry if I came across that way. Only that I have seen them start like that soooo many times! haha, just trying to help.

And I said your list wasn't TOO good, not TO good. Meaning, I didn't think it was OP, not that it was bad! haha, see how easy it is to misconstrue things on the internet!

@Umbo

Wasn't implying you were flaming either. Your input is appreciated!

I was just trying to clarify for myself because you didnt seem to know either Reece. I was only saying if they had 20 gaurdsmen with them they were broken. As they sit now they are OP in my opinion but don't find fault with anyone bringing them if it was in the rules. I also think the breaching drill is a little OP but think Tau Tetras should be included in the Tau codex, FW is hit or miss with me but not really balenced.

Fair enough. I think the sabres are a good thing as they mitigate flyers. As most armies can ally with ig, most armies can take them. I see that as a win.

I agree that breaching drills are too good for the points. Dugg brought 2 and lost 2 games!

But you know what I think is more op than either? Psykotroke grenades, purifiers, psycannons, night scythes, mind shackle scarabs, runes of warding, rerollable 2+ saves, lash, doom with iron arm, meph with iron arm, long fangs, grey Hunters, deff rollas, wolf standards, jotww, saint Celestine, etc., etc., etc.

The game isn't balanced now. So adding in cool stuff that brings diversity to the game and armies only makes it more enjoyable aesthetically and tactically, IMO. The only difference is familiarity.

 Reecius wrote:
Fair enough. I think the sabres are a good thing as they mitigate flyers. As most armies can ally with ig, most armies can take them. I see that as a win.

I agree that breaching drills are too good for the points. Dugg brought 2 and lost 2 games!

But you know what I think is more op than either? Psykotroke grenades, purifiers, psycannons, night scythes, mind shackle scarabs, runes of warding, rerollable 2+ saves, lash, doom with iron arm, meph with iron arm, long fangs, grey Hunters, deff rollas, wolf standards, jotww, saint Celestine, etc., etc., etc.

The game isn't balanced now. So adding in cool stuff that brings diversity to the game and armies only makes it more enjoyable aesthetically and tactically, IMO. The only difference is familiarity.

I like how nothing from the Dark Eldar codex makes the short list of cheese. Or is that covered by the second etc.?

 Loch wrote:

 Reecius wrote:
Fair enough. I think the sabres are a good thing as they mitigate flyers. As most armies can ally with ig, most armies can take them. I see that as a win.

I agree that breaching drills are too good for the points. Dugg brought 2 and lost 2 games!

But you know what I think is more op than either? Psykotroke grenades, purifiers, psycannons, night scythes, mind shackle scarabs, runes of warding, rerollable 2+ saves, lash, doom with iron arm, meph with iron arm, long fangs, grey Hunters, deff rollas, wolf standards, jotww, saint Celestine, etc., etc., etc.

The game isn't balanced now. So adding in cool stuff that brings diversity to the game and armies only makes it more enjoyable aesthetically and tactically, IMO. The only difference is familiarity.

I like how nothing from the Dark Eldar codex makes the short list of cheese. Or is that covered by the second etc.?

It's covered by the 2+ rerollable saves probably... lol. Breaching drills are mean. They almost wiped out my harlies.

 Reecius wrote:


The game isn't balanced now. So adding in cool stuff that brings diversity to the game and armies only makes it more enjoyable aesthetically and tactically, IMO. The only difference is familiarity.

Preach on brutha. Sounds like a great event, one day I'll quit being so broke and start going to events again...

Congrats to all the winners, pics?

Game isn't balanced now? That's interesting and news to me

Congrats on another solid event buddy. Wish I was still in Cali to attend all the stuff you guys are running.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Game isn't balanced now? That's interesting and news to me

Congrats on another solid event buddy. Wish I was still in Cali to attend all the stuff you guys are running.

I have to agree. I was under the impression the entire reason you guys don't run Comp is because the game has an inherent comp system built into the codices. If the game is truly imbalanced then there is no inherent comp system in the codices themselves. Don't get me wrong I am not for a comp system in anyway, and I support your events with my attendance as often as possible, but your statement about balance seems contrary to your tournament organizing groups creed.

Ah, the Breaching Drill on paper seems very OP for its points. The facts are very different. For my 5 games they only made back their points 2 out of the 5 games. With all my play testing with them Im at about a 20-30% return on their points (points earned/killed vs point cost of drill) I've been play testing them and I've even mishaped with one in a game and my opponent was nice enough to place it on my Colossus and PCS which both went up in flames. *Sidenote being an Ork player at heart I thought this was pretty damn funny. I get a follow up turn with them about 25% on average, 11/10/10, opentopped and 2 hull pts they don't stick around.

Tacticly, they are pretty cool. A Vet or Engineer squad comes out of the hole the following turn and do not suffer damage when the Drill explodes which is nice.

I did have 2 this time around and dropped 1 bikerNob+ Klaw to add that second one. Btw, that BikerNob i dropped earns about triple it's points every game.

For anyone thinking they want to go out and drop the $ on drills be careful. They aren't cheap "$" and you really have to make sure they work in your list, they are a very easy kill point and they are IG so they Scatter and do bad things, even to your units.

My Vulture and Platforms didn't get here in time for me to have them this tournament so you will be seeing them down the road. I'm going full on Death Korp of Krieg, my dream Army, so I won't be playing those until they are all painted up.

Also, I think the word OP gets used way to much. There are some very strong Units, on paper, but with 6th there is this HUGE opening for everyone to use a large variety of these Strong units. Sure, in the Tournament scene you will see these units but I also think you will see more bad match ups due to the variety of options 6th gives us. I'm sure the Naive player that gets a bad match up and gets crushed by it will blame it on OP units and Army's, but it's my opinion that 6th has opened up the chances of these bad match ups, not the FW units. I do not necessarily think this is a bad thing in the larger tournaments but can be rough in say a 3 round tournament.

I find it interesting that IG has won the majority of your guys major events, Reece. Do you think the BAO mission favors that book?

 Dok wrote:
I find it interesting that IG has won the majority of your guys major events, Reece. Do you think the BAO mission favors that book?

Dok, clearly "IG is the most overpowered book GW has put out in over a decade."

I would say yes. The mission does favor the IG book.

I think the Missions favor a balanced list. I think the small model count DeathStar lists have a tough time, which is a good thing.

 Dugg wrote:
I think the Missions favor a balanced list. I think the small model count DeathStar lists have a tough time, which is a good thing.

MSU deathstar was hurt by 6th in general which I agree was a good thing. However IG has a huge edge in a mission where 2 out of 3 criteria is claiming objectives. They do that better than any other army in the game.

I wonder why attendance was so low, Game Empire in Pasadena got more than that a couple of RTTs ago, and this event was drawing people from the Bay Area.

 Dugg wrote:
I think the Missions favor a balanced list. I think the small model count DeathStar lists have a tough time, which is a good thing.

Like my Tyranids, or your armies, or...oh, wait!

It is an interesting observation. It'd be fun* to take the results of all BAO-style events and really crunch the numbers on them, and see what pops out. Because it is a win/loss format, you don't have to dominate; you can play to your army's strengths. So an IG army doesn't have any mission that they MUST advance far out of their deployment zone, provided they can win on either KP or Crusade/Seize Ground objectives. But it is very matchup driven, as all single-elimination formats pretty much have to be; the DE list that beat my Tyranids went down in flames to Vinnie's IG, but I'm fairly confident my bugs would have been a rougher matchup for Vinnie.

*For certain definitions of "fun."

@ Janthkin Yeah, I would have loved to play vs Vinnie too. I think my list could have done well vs his, maybe next time.

btw, I really liked your list. and if you wouldn't have pooped out you would have totally swarmed over me as well. I'm still shacking my head over your Doom of malan'tai and his "walk in the park" along my back line. HAHA

I thought I could give Vinnie a good matchup too with tank hunting dark lances, but I screwed up against DE and never got the chance.

 mikkoboi wrote:

It's covered by the 2+ rerollable saves probably... lol. Breaching drills are mean. They almost wiped out my harlies.

Dark Eldar don't have rerollable 2+ saves....leastways not on their own... just sayin'

@Hulk and Overwatch

Of course the game is not balanced, I assumed that was a given.

I think where we differ is in how we define balance. A balanced system (or perhaps, perfectly balanced as there is not other kind of balance) is a system in which any list has equal chances of beating any other list.

That quite simply isn't the case.

No game is balanced though, even in Chess the player going first has a slightly higher chance of winning.

My point was that it really changes anything that much other than to mitigate Flyers and give the weaker armies a nice boost.

This wasn't a statement on Comp at all, we don't use comp because we believe that a player should try to overcome the imbalances through clever list building and tactics as opposed to forcing everyone else to play the way they want to play.

Comp and game balance are two very different ideas in my mind, although I can see how a lot of folks see them as similar.

@Blackmoor

A lot of our regular guys couldn't make it: Christian, Face Puncher, Stave Stiff, Dave Fay, Warboss Russ, etc. as they all had other obligations.

As to general attendance, we're stumped, too. This is without a doubt one of the coolest events we do. It should be huge, and next year we're going to push hard to get awareness up. It's just too awesome of an event to not grow, so much cool stuff going on!

@Dok

That's a good question. I think there are too many variables in play to say that any one list will dominate. The players winning with IG are also very, very good players.

Our missions format is not that much different than book missions. The only thing we don't have is The Relic, which I could see an argument being made would help IG.

I think building a list that can get into the other player's lines reliably would be smart. I have found the key to beating IG, particularly a list like Vince's, is to get into assault with them. They will fold if you do.

I agree that Janthkin would have given him a good fight. Also, Vince played Raw Dogger's Blood Angels and it came down to the last throw of the dice with Vince's MoO scattering onto an scoring unit and killing them. He had several very close games, it wasn't a wipe out by any means.

 Reecius wrote:
Our missions format is not that much different than book missions. The only thing we don't have is The Relic, which I could see an argument being made would help IG.

Yes...and also no. Yes, you use the same criteria as the book missions. But having all three active means that you can safely ignore certain mission types sometimes. For example, Capture & Control/The Emperor's Will: when this is the ONLY objective, you have to play for it, or you end up with a tie (or relying on the secondary points). When it's only one of three mission objectives, even if it's the highest-value one, I can safely choose to ignore it (aside from securing my own objective). So long as that objective is canceled out, I can focus on something easier for my army to accomplish, be it KPs or Seize Ground objectives.

I'm not complaining, and it's not a "bad" mission structure by any means, but it is a bit different in terms of what army works best, and how you play the mission. You don't need quite as much mobility, if you're certain you never really HAVE to get into your opponent's Hammer & Anvil deployment zone; you don't need to aggressively advance your footguard as much, either.

Time, by the way, felt pretty good to me. Didn't make it to random game length rolls in all my games, but every game made it to at least turn 5.

Good points.

True, it is not the book missions solely, but we honestly feel the book missions as they are are not the best suited for tournament play. They are too narrow in focus. Layered missions allow for flexibility in play, but when we have missions that are very similar, as you noted, it also leads to a certain amount of predictability.

One thing we have been toying with is an alternate structure wherein we incorporate 3 different book missios per game, such as Relic, Big Guns Never Tire and Purge the Alien, for example and vary the combinations every round.

That would mix things up a bit and stay true to our format, but also mitigate the really bad match-ups that can come as a result of straight book missions.

Also, check out this cool cosplay video from Comikaze, guys!

http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2012/09/18/comikaze-cosplay-video-very-cool/

 Blackmoor wrote:
I wonder why attendance was so low, Game Empire in Pasadena got more than that a couple of RTTs ago, and this event was drawing people from the Bay Area.

Painting reqs + new edition prevented me from going, but I only manage to get to half a dozen tournaments all year.

I found that the mission did lend itself well to heart troops, which is a good things.

In all the BAO games I have played, people being able to get through my Boyz squads was always an issue, and made my Wagon rush very viable, where as basic book missions were a lot harder for me.

Grats on the win Vince!

 Reecius wrote:
True, it is not the book missions solely, but we honestly feel the book missions as they are are not the best suited for tournament play. They are too narrow in focus. Layered missions allow for flexibility in play, but when we have missions that are very similar, as you noted, it also leads to a certain amount of predictability.

No disagreement here; I like having multiple ways to win.

One thing we have been toying with is an alternate structure wherein we incorporate 3 different book missios per game, such as Relic, Big Guns Never Tire and Purge the Alien, for example and vary the combinations every round.

That would mix things up a bit and stay true to our format, but also mitigate the really bad match-ups that can come as a result of straight book missions.

Try that. Also try straight VPs, with all those objectives in play - every unit is a VP, each secondary is a VP, every objective is 3 VPs (unless The Scouring, in which case random values on those middle objectives). I'm curious to see if 6e needs the "multiple ways to win" separated and/or point-normalized (which is what the current format does), or if a simple combined VP approach built on the skeleton of the book missions would function. Hell, even The Relic might work, if it's just 3 more VPs up for grabs.

Regarding attendance; SOCAL Slaughter is this next weekend. 2 major events back to back pretty much kills most peoples budgets. I would expect the Slaughter will also see a lower than normal turnout as people who travelled to LA last weekend are now tapped out to make another trip (gas, food, hotel, etc) so soon.

@Reece I always support you guys and I love the tournys you put on but I have only one critiqe. When I first started going to GT's I really liked getting a paint score at the end. I work really hard painting my army (I enjoy painting) and like seeing my scores get better as I progress. I have never recieved a paint score at your events or seen any posted for any of the best painted/rennasance man. It really should be more transparent, plus if you make a prize for it and require every one to a certain standard then you owe it to us to judge all our scores (not just the few you think is the best). Not only that but it is a major part of this hobby or you wouldent require it. I know its more work but other GTs manage (and I know there were alot of nice views from your stand but I'm sure someone could have found soe time to do it). Rant done.

dkellyj wrote:
Regarding attendance; SOCAL Slaughter is this next weekend. 2 major events back to back pretty much kills most peoples budgets. I would expect the Slaughter will also see a lower than normal turnout as people who travelled to LA last weekend are now tapped out to make another trip (gas, food, hotel, etc) so soon.

There is that, too. I couldn't make the Slaughter this year, which mitigated the selection process for me.

 Reecius wrote:
@Blackmoor

A lot of our regular guys couldn't make it: Christian, Face Puncher, Stave Stiff, Dave Fay, Warboss Russ, etc. as they all had other obligations.

As to general attendance, we're stumped, too. This is without a doubt one of the coolest events we do. It should be huge, and next year we're going to push hard to get awareness up. It's just too awesome of an event to not grow, so much cool stuff going on!

This GT snuck up on me, and I didn't get my act together fast enough to go. In my backyard, too. I gotta be better about checking Frontline.com for info.

I'm sure you guys woulda liked some extra footing help on the way to the top.

@BLD

No doubt our missions does alter what armies are good, but that will happen anytime you deviate at all from the book.

@Janthkin

We definitely will, and we'll post the results.

@Kelly

Yeah, having lots of events close to each other doesn't work out so well, usually. It's the Smackdown this weekend too, not the Slaughter.

@Grimgob

We appreciate your support buddy, for sure. You have a valid concern, but there are several reasons we don't judge each person at the events.

For one, it takes ages to do. To properly score each army takes a solid 3-5 minutes per army minimum, and when you multiply that by 50-100 attendees, you can see how fast that adds up. You're talking 3 to 7 hours of time. Even split between 3 guys, that isn't realistic. We quite simply don't have time with a 3 man crew to rate everyone.

Our logic is that since only 4-6 people when an award based on painting, that time spent judging people simply to give them feedback when we could be adding up player scores, answering rules questions, etc. is time not well spent.

That isn't a slight against anyone and I know I like getting feedback too, but unless we had someone who's only job was judging painting, and they had all event to do it, it doesn't make sense. It isn't meant as an insult to anyone at all, it's simply an efficiency issue.

And your army looked awesome! It just wasn't finished. Had all your models been done, you would have easily won a painting award.

Thanks for your input though, we appreciate it.

I understand but it would have taken you guys 15 Min each day between the three of you during lunch at this last one. I know I wasnt finished and was not expecting anything (never am really I got a lot better but am not that good). I just thought it was part of a GT to get a painting score. mabey you need some more volenteers. I'll help if you come up with a qubric like the old one from GW (even taking myself out of best painted, but I still want a score from someone else for renassance).

The only problem with having attendees rate each other is people get made about perceived unfairness.

And yes, you are right that with 30 people we could have done it in a more manageable amount of time than say, the BAO. We didn't consider it though as out stated policy is to visually inspect every army and then go into depth on the top armies. That's just the way we're used to doing things.

And a GT can have a paint score, but there isn't a set format for how to run a GT. It is what the TO's make of it.

If people want to have us judge there armies, we of course will as our goal is to create a fun event. It's just that it is not the most enjoyable task when there are so many other things going on that need to be taken care of as well. And, just as often as not, people get mad about their score when they think they should have scored higher, or what have you. It is a major time sink.

If we did get a dedicated paint judging squad, that is a group of people that don't get to play. So, there's a lot more to it than probably it seems at first. We do put a lot of thought into it though.

So the first major event to allow Forge World is won by an army with many of the completely broken Sabre Defense Platforms? Color me unsurprised.

@Grimgob

If you have any ideas for a peer reviewed system, I'd love to hear it, actually. Perhaps you've got some ideas we hadn't considered.

@Kingsley

We weren't the first big GT to allow FW by any stretch of the imagination. Many events have used FW previously and just as here, it was no big deal.

 Reecius wrote:
@Kingsley

We weren't the first big GT to allow FW by any stretch of the imagination. Many events have used FW previously and just as here, it was no big deal.

To be fair, FW is a big deal at the Adepticon Gladiator. Some of those titans are pretty large, after all.

Ah yeah, fair point Reece-- I meant the first major event in 6th edition to use FW. I honestly think 6th edition has made FW less balanced, since most armies have no real way to deal with Artillery units now and some of the FW Flyers are just crazy. But it sounds like people had a fun time at this event regardless, so that's cool. Overall I don't care how people play the game as long as a good time is had by all!

@Janthkin

Hahaha, OK, you got me there!

@Kingsley

Exactly! So long as people are having fun, that's the point.

And artillery really, really aren't that big of a deal. I agree the Sabres are under-priced, but not broken, IMO. You're free to disagree of course, as folks do, but the people that actually played Vince and aren't basing their argument off of speculation, said they thought they were fine.

This was a good time! Funny non-tournament things that happened... I dont know how many other people this happened too but I totally could've gotten into the con without paying saturday morning, grimgob and I just walked in an open door about 9:45 and went right in. Some guy wanted some "credentials" after we were already inside and I pulled out my ticket and kinda showed it to him but I feel like I coulda pulled out a printed out email or fanfic to the same result, grimgob did not even do that, it was hilarious. Then the second day this security lady wouldnt let us in even though we had our very official badges on lanyards.. so we snuck under a velvet rope thingie about 10 feet from her. All in all not very good security. Israel was great, he asked her if she was having a bad day all politely and then caught her later and asked her if her day had improved (to which she continued being bitchy) I couldnt help but laugh.

As a Tau player I got to fight Israel first. Israel has some really nicely painted Tau which make me jealous, all on this really nice fortification/display board. I dont even know why we were fighting being both Tau, but I guess no ethereals were around. It was just a test to see which doctrine was better. Turns out the doctrine that includes O'ralai is better than one that does not, that model kicks serious ass. I had Israel on the ropes right up to the end then he showed me what O'ralai could do, busting out of a fight with my ally belial and laying big templates all over my poor innocent fire warriors. Lesson learned, shoot the 'O first next time.

My other truly memorable match (read loss) was against Dugg. Those damned drills. They apparently have a habit of scattering off onto things they shouldnt, but not in this game! He landed them both in good places, one on top of my commander and my hammerhead taking out both. But it was a fun game anyway. By the end he was able to hovermode his vendettas because he had wiped all my heavy weapons. not much I could do after that. But hey it was a fun game anyway, grats to dugg on the win.

So I went 3-2, not bad, Tau are definitely better nowadays (especially when you can take an ally and have fearless FNP terminators with stormshields as troops).

Of course the other plus was we were at a comiccon with a lot of cosplay going on. Much better eye candy than you normally get at a tournament. Reecius you think you can get a bunch of half naked women to walk around at all of your tournaments?

Voodoo wrote:
This was a good time!
Of course the other plus was we were at a comiccon with a lot of cosplay going on. Much better eye candy than you normally get at a tournament. Reecius you think you can get a bunch of half naked women to walk around at all of your tournaments?

Hahaha, I can't make any promises, but I promise I shall do my best!

The only way you could do it player judged is three ways. 1. you hand out a qubric and pick a game to go over your opponants army (as its not subjective and you can check it) or 2. you could do the old 7 opponants give each a score 1-7 (no repeat numbers) use the scores and you guys could judge ties with a qubric 3. Get a girlffriend and have her judge painting to keep her busy while you TO I like 1 and 3 best

@Voodoo Our game was a BLAST! I knew you were going to steal the initiative on me. Haha it was a tough match to work my way back after that. The Drills helped but I think the Vendettas taking out your big fire power was the real turning point, and the fact that my Nob bikers and your Termi's stuck for what 3 rounds? I totally messed up on my precision strikes on that one. Oh well, live and learn. Thanks again for the great game.

I bought a ticket, but it turned out that I couldn't get my S together enough to make it. So, take my money I guess? haha. The timing on these is ass (not your fault, but still) The first one was on my bday and this one was on my GF's bday.

I had a lot of fun, although I made huge play mistakes in my first round against the ringer army, and my other matches were a bit more one sided than I would care for. I think the TOs did a fine job and I like all the victory conditions (which definitely change which armies are good, which lists are good, etc). I think the only real issue I had with the experience was that I think the wrong call was made on the ruling of whether Night Shields can reduce the range of a Heavy Incinerator but then again I should have come up to a judge and made my argument rather than just accepting it, still very very new to 40k and used to the MTG scene where the rules are in plain English. Here's looking forward to a new INAT FAQ.

Can't say I've been to many other tournaments where I could see Stan "The Man" Lee as well as play some games.

@ Janthkin

You stay away from me, you and that damn Doom of Malantai. I didn't want ANY of that and was very pleased that I never had to deal with it.

@ Blackmoor

I actually thought I was going to be playing you in Match 4 (first game on Sunday) since a lot of people were saying you had arguably the best list in the tournament. It would've been a fantastic game I think.

@ Bloodlord

EXACTLY! Large numbers of troops (in individual 10 man squads, no less) actually managed to do well, which I was warned beforehand was a complete waste of points and I should've run mounted Plasma Veterans like every other competitive IG player apparently does.

Hopefully the meta will swing back to playing Guard the way Guard was MEANT to be played, and soon.

Hi

As someone in no way connected to anything on the West Coast, I have a theory on attendance at an event like this.

In Ontario, Canada, our big con is Fan Expo Toronto. People have been trying to run a warhammer tournament there for years, but not one person in my regular tournament crew have even considered signing up for a tourney there.

There are so many other ways to embrace your inner geek at these relatively rare events, and so many relatively common warhammer gaming events to go to, that if we go, we choose to spend our time checking out all the other stuff instead.

I have no idea if that holds water at Comikaze, but that is my Fan Expo Toronto point of view.

Cheers,
Nate

Let me be a Glass half full guy here.

The attendance was higher this year vs last, by what, close to double? It was a fun and great event and I will surely be there next year with more of my local crew from San Diego. I can see it doubling again for next year, no problem, even breaking the 100 mark, easily. This was a rad event that guys/dads can bring their girlfriends/families too and everyone will have a great time. I know a few guys did that this year.

I'll be more than happy to throw more prize support to this event as well for next year. I am fully behind Frontline on this Event and wanting to make it huge. It was that much fun. I ran out of cards this year just from the crowds that came by to watch the games, on the other side of the barrier walls, and to look at my Ork't Out Case, cup holders sold separately. ;-) I thought the crowds watching was kind of cool, as long as we keep them on the other side of the walls, which they were for the most part.

Idea! - Maybe bring your projector next time Frontline and have a Main Event table that we could project onto the huge wall next to us to draw even more people over. I mean, we 40k players are kind of a big deal, right? ;-)

@Grimgob

Dman, hadn't thought of that, actually. That is a really good idea. We'll do peer judged painting based on a 1-7 scale with no repeats and then we'll take the top scoring armies and judge them individually with enough time to actually look at them and see what went into them without having to rush. This also means everyone gets a score. Thanks for the suggestion!

@Dok

No worries man, it happens. Next year!

@TheFremen

That was a tough call, and we voted as a group and it was a 2-1 vote that night shields would reduce the range of the Heavy Incinerator so it wasn't clear to us, either. We'll look further into it. Glad you had fun, though!

@Vinny

No one can say how IG were MEANT to be played really (or any army for that matter), it's up to the person playing them. I know for a fact that that the codex writers try to build in multiple ways to play the army as it adds diversity to the game and increases sales. If one person likes masses of infantry and the other likes mechanized infantry (and that really isn't the best way to play them anymore in 6th) then that is up to them. Neither is "right" or "wrong" inherently.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Carlos

I think you make a good point, but at this particular event, a lot of these folks hadn't even been to a Comicon style event before, so that may not be true here specifically.

We also try to make sure to allow plenty of time for players to go out and see the con, too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Dugg

That would be awesome but we had nothing to project onto! haha

 Reecius wrote:
@Grimgob

Dman, hadn't thought of that, actually. That is a really good idea. We'll do peer judged painting based on a 1-7 scale with no repeats and then we'll take the top scoring armies and judge them individually with enough time to actually look at them and see what went into them without having to rush. This also means everyone gets a score. Thanks for the suggestion!

Isnt that the same scoring you said you didn't like when dave faye did it ?Personally I think its a step in the right direction but it gets a little muddy when you have to score someone a 5 and someone else a 4 even if they both would have been 5's or even both 3's. A slight variation could be give one person 7, then two people 5,then two 3's and a 1 .This way you still have a a score spread but you dont feel like your shafting the guy by giving him a 2 when he was about the same as guy 3 and 4 .

I didn't like the system, I didn't like having to give someone a 1. Dave and I talked about it, and I told him I understood why he did it as it forces the field to stratify instead of everyone getting a 7 as people tend to do.

However, for our larger events, it saves so much time.

And all of the points you made are totally fair and legitimate. However, considering our current system has gotten criticism from more folks than just Grimgob, I think it is time for us to consider alternative formats. The system you suggest certainly spares people's feelings, but it doesn't stratify the field as much.

Sigh, hahaha, no matter what TO's do, someone isn't happy with it. Oh well.

Oh, and pics in the first post! Some good ones in there!

 Reecius wrote:
And all of the points you made are totally fair and legitimate.

WTF is this the internet .

Hope you figure it out before Vegas, which i'm planing to attend

 Reecius wrote:
Oh, and pics in the first post! Some good ones in there!

There's a notable lack of 40k pictures in your gallery....

Comikaze was great! Had a blast, and got a chance to BS with reecius for a bit. I didn't get a chance to sit in for a game, but there were some great looking armies on the tables. I was there in kind of a work capacity, but otherwise I would have thrown some tau/knights or crons down for a fight.

I had meant to go to support Reece, as he has supported us, but September is a packed month for conventions and I am a Fantasy player first. Just in this month alone you had Orc Con, Smackdown, and Kamakaze. Plus my birthday is in there and the start of the football season, so I was wall to wall this month. While staring at all the cos playing hoochies is good incentive to go, my migraines dictate that I need to be at less crowded venues, so I will show my support by returning to the BAO this year.

Realistically, the west coast is also packed with a lot of cheap asses and attendance is not back to pre-recession levels, though Reece runs what are easily the most successful and well attended events on this coast.

As far as IG winning it, flame me all you want but I think IG and SW are still the dominant armies with or without FW. Expect to see them win every major event this year, despite all the GK and Cron butthurt on the intertubes.

Well Reecius it looks like you and your team put on a great tournament. From the videos and pictures I have determined that I will be attending this next year for sure and hopefully I can drag my friend along. Still counting the days for DuelCon!

I swear there were more pics/videos taken, now just where to find these...

I have a video of the actual tournament, but it is stubbornly refusing to upload to YouTube!

@Janthkin

Haha, true, but considering that the guys taking the pictures are early 20's and single, I don't think it should be that surprising!

@y0disisray

Thanks! Yeah, Duelcon is going to be super fun. We're really looking forward to it, too. We'd love to have you next year, this year was a blast.

@Phazael

No worries bro, we understand. September is nuts, and for the same reason we couldn't make the Smackdown this year, Too much travel. Comikaze is moving to November I believe, next year, so it should be a lot easier to fit it in. Good luck withthe Smackdown, wish we could have made it.

@Junk

Nice to meet you, too! Hopefully next year you can play.

@Azgrim

Indeed, we are working hard to decide if we will push for the Las Vegas Open this year, or 2014. But either way, the system will be hammered out by then. We have been testing it out quite a bit. Thanks for the feedback.

Reece, quick question, the video you posted was the cosplay one during the 2012 Comikaze. On your Signals from the Warp podcast you mentioned a video that should be found in Youtube that covers the Comikaze 40K event, could you point me to the right direction, it could be there and I'm just not looking hard enough lol.

Thanks man! Again, super fun event and will definitely attend next year!

****NVM, I just read your post above. Good luck uploading it!****

Yeah, I don't know what went wrong, I'll try and upload it again today. We've been having issues with that lately for some reason.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And glad you had a good time! See you at the next event!

Couldn't make it due to work. Hope to be there next year.

I can't make Brawl in the Fall due to work this year as well, and its only 2 miles from my frak'n house! Hope you ZC guys can be there. I'll drop in and say hi.

they made some veids for some of the players and a friend got to see them i know they are on youtub but do not know whare . das any one els know?

ok found the video
http://vimeo.com/49563539