What do you think would happen to each race in another 2000 years?

Tyranids eat everything.

Well... it's GW, so everything's gonna remain gridlocked

1) The Emperor dies.
2) The Imperium falls apart, and splinter Mechanicum and Astartes realms established.
3) The Powers lose interest in the material realm, leaving the traitor legions to destroy each other.
4) The Tyranids and the Necrons begin to destroy each other.
5) The Eldar and the Dark Eldar's decay and extinction speed up without the Emperor's restraining influence on Slaanesh.
6) The Orks devastate large areas of the Imperium until the loyal Primarchs and those Primarchs who were tricked to become Daemon Princes (and having been forsaken by the Powers, threw away their daemonhood) return to unite the splinter realms into a lose alliance and drive the Orks back.
7) The Tau grow in power, but come into bloody conflicts with the Orks and the increasingly desperate and depraved Dark Eldar.

Tadashi wrote:1) The Emperor dies.
2) The Imperium falls apart, and splinter Mechanicum and Astartes realms established.
3) The Powers lose interest in the material realm, leaving the traitor legions to destroy each other.
4) The Tyranids and the Necrons begin to destroy each other.
5) The Eldar and the Dark Eldar's decay and extinction speed up without the Emperor's restraining influence on Slaanesh.
6) The Orks devastate large areas of the Imperium until the loyal Primarchs and those Primarchs who were tricked to become Daemon Princes (and having been forsaken by the Powers, threw away their daemonhood) return to unite the splinter realms into a lose alliance and drive the Orks back.
7) The Tau grow in power, but come into bloody conflicts with the Orks and the increasingly desperate and depraved Dark Eldar.

This, except for 3 and 6, I'd say.

I would say that the big E dies too, this either unites or ends humanity as the big super power (still has teeth though)

Tau use the lapse in power and expand massivly into the now lighty defended worlds, these planets see the benefit o the Tau defence (as the imperium can no longer defend them effectivly), and this allows them to consolidate there power.

I agree the DE become even more desperate as there bigeest treats are dieing fast.

Chaos (as in all of it) finally see's the Nids as the threat they are and unite again to fight it, the galaxy suffers but the nids are repelled from the milky way.

Nids: After having been repelled regroup and start to push into the Milky way once again, in larger numbers.

Necrons: More awaken, more sucumb to the flayed one virus, there empire expands eponentially as the main threat to them lessens (imperial), these replace the imperium as the dominant power.

Orks do what orks have always done.. fight and win. The orks defeat leviathan and bring the waaagh to the Newcron empire.

Eldar as a race decide to consolidate there remaining forces, this includes exodites. they move to the outer halo stars to re-ignite there empire and attempt to finally rebuild.

Thats just how i see it anyway

The emperor makes a miraculous recovery as he reveals himself to be the master of all the chaos gods. As if you think about it no one exemplifies all the powers of chaos more than the emperor. He slaughtered most o the galaxy, lives seemingly forever, is a powerful psyker and his armour is so extravagant it has to be slaanesh. After this chaos basically kills everything and turns everything into a giant realm of chaos.

Nothing much changes.

All marines reach Draigo levels of awesomeness and unite all races and have a party.

And in that party massive sex orgies occur ( the emperor being one of those at the party ) thus he has 12 more sons and one to lead them all. He names this particular son Horus jr. And this time everything works out as he makes the rest of his sons the new primarchs. And dark eldar die of sadness because they weren't invited to the party

Humanity will be heir to a crumbling Imperium held together by a massive bureaucracy and watched over by super-beings clad in ceramite.

The Eldar will struggle to maintain their civilization in the face of new and old threats as they have for the last 10 million years or more.

The Dark Eldar will skirt the edges of chaos and spend much of their time deep in byzantine politics punctuated by periods of intense blood-letting.

The forces of chaos will attempt to break into the material universe and exact their revenge on the Emperor and his minions.

The Tau will attempt to expand their small 'empire' by bringing order and good will (at the expense of personal freedom) to the other races in the galaxy.

The Orks will maintain a never ending cycle of battle while living under a mushroom.

The Necrons will start to wake up a little less slowly and slap the younger races around more frequently.

look familiar? Well, 2000 years is a mighty short time in this universe...

Assuming that the tyranids don't end up nomnomnoming everything inthe next thousands years.

Everything keeps decaying until either the Tau or the necron come on top.

Lets be honest, the imperium is slowly dying from the inside, at best I'm guessing they either split into several empire fighting each other over which is the best way to worship the emperor. Or the Astromican shrinks to the size of the Segmentum solar

The Eldar are slowly dying, they seem worst to then panda at procreating.

The DE are too self centered and busy raiding to build anything bigger

Orks...well Orks.

Halmyr wrote:Everything keeps decaying until either the Tau or the necron come on top.

I can see how Necrons would come out on top, but Tau? They only succeed because nobody pays them much attention. Once most major factions are gone, people will start focusing on them more, and that will be the end of the Tau.

DOOMBREAD wrote:

Halmyr wrote:Everything keeps decaying until either the Tau or the necron come on top.

I can see how Necrons would come out on top, but Tau? They only succeed because nobody pays them much attention. Once most major factions are gone, people will start focusing on them more, and that will be the end of the Tau.

The Tau will probably expand, then get butchered by Orks and Dark Eldar. The Necrons and the Tyranids I can see destroying each other.

Tau - Eaten by Tyranids
Orks - Eaten by Tyranids
Eldar - Eaten by Tyranids
Dark Eldar - Eaten by Tyranids
Imperium - Eaten by Tyranids
Chaos - Eaten by Tyranids
Necrons - Eaten by Tyranids
Tyranids - Eaten by Tyranids

Well the Dark Eldar would appear to be safe from the tyranids in the webway, as do chaos in the warp if i'm correct. I also do not believe orks would get nomd as it would just be a giant never ending battle. Can necrons even get eaten being metal and all?

Corruption wrote:Well the Dark Eldar would appear to be safe from the tyranids in the webway, as do chaos in the warp if i'm correct. I also do not believe orks would get nomd as it would just be a giant never ending battle. Can necrons even get eaten being metal and all?

I don't think they can nom the 'crons...and if the Emperor's dead, all Eldar would be in a heap of trouble, as Slaanesh would no longer be restrained by the old man's power.

Corruption wrote:Well the Dark Eldar would appear to be safe from the tyranids in the webway, as do chaos in the warp if i'm correct. I also do not believe orks would get nomd as it would just be a giant never ending battle. Can necrons even get eaten being metal and all?

Webway - Eaten by Tyranids

Tadashi wrote:
I don't think they can nom the 'crons...and if the Emperor's dead, all Eldar would be in a heap of trouble, as Slaanesh would no longer be restrained by the old man's power.

Wha? They are in a heap of trouble anyway, the only thing preventing them from being a source of soul juice for Slaanesh are their Soulstones. The Emperor doesn't make a blind bit of difference to the relationship between Eldar and Slaanesh. There were survivors after Slaanesh was born and the Emperor was still stuck on Terra.

DOOMBREAD wrote:
I can see how Necrons would come out on top, but Tau? They only succeed because nobody pays them much attention. Once most major factions are gone, people will start focusing on them more, and that will be the end of the Tau.

Something even less likely to happen than the Tau "coming out on top".

Moot point is moot.

Czevak succeeds in resurrecting the Emperor. Ahriman elevates to a new Chaos god and influences paths so that the Imperium may rebuild.

Ok, the Big E dies and the Imperium is in dissaray, but is still too freaking huge to lose. Abbys crusades finally break Cadia and establish a beach head into the Materium, Chaos builds for another push. Tyranids push deeper, and a large fleet encounters the Tau. The Tau get eaten, and are extinct except for maybe a few random fish in Dental offices. The Dark Eldar are mostly unchanged, as are the Eldar, although they begin to work more with man against chaos. Daemons are unchanged, just more incursions. Orks thrive on war and rampage through all races, as usual. Necrons slowly gain strength and momentum, but the different Dynasties aren't united yet. Oh,and the Dark Angels coat themself in the blood of Grey Knights so that they don't become fallen. Duh.

Aadrubael vect takes all the other kabals into the kabal of the black heart, enslaves all of humanity and turns them into a slave race for the never ending orgy of bloodletting in the arenas emporaor dies, (this is why vect is able to enslave them) astartes all join to create one giant chapter and become one race and drive out the nids, orks being orks slaughter everything they can find however they can only find the eldar, necrons exapnd as there enemy is wiped out orks then slaughter the necrons, tau expand and fill the gap created by the eldar and necrons, orks slaughter tau, the three main powers are orks, astartes and dark eldar, astartes and orks are locked in never ending war whilst the dark eldar remean in the webway with their never ending slave race (humanity) and laugh at the orks and astartes

TheEverShift wrote:Aadrubael vect takes all the other kabals into the kabal of the black heart, enslaves all of humanity and turns them into a slave race for the never ending orgy of bloodletting in the arenas emporaor dies, (this is why vect is able to enslave them) astartes all join to create one giant chapter and become one race and drive out the nids, orks being orks slaughter everything they can find however they can only find the eldar, necrons exapnd as there enemy is wiped out orks then slaughter the necrons, tau expand and fill the gap created by the eldar and necrons, orks slaughter tau, the three main powers are orks, astartes and dark eldar, astartes and orks are locked in never ending war whilst the dark eldar remean in the webway with their never ending slave race (humanity) and laugh at the orks and astartes

if you have read any necron fluff 1st off all 1 planet of necrons destroy an entire waaagh by shining a light into their eyes and turn to dust. 2nd necrons cant die so win in the end and tyrininds for all those tyrinid players out there cant regenerate if their entire hive fleet is destroyed. (necrons blow up a star right next to it)

Everyone spontaneously evolves into ponies, except the kroot.

the kroot then eat them...

Seriously though, it'd either be the usual gridlock, or the plot armour on the IOM would finally fail, Humanity would be wiped out, and the other races would then continue to fight each other..

Emperor dies and is reincarnated into a new body.

Great Crusade 2 is launched, Galaxy is united.

The Tau get virus bombed to oblivion, Tyranids flee from the mighty psychic presence, Necrons go back to sleep, Eldar finally go extinct, da Orks keep foightin, the Eye gets sealed up(but chaos continues to raid the imperium for eternity)

Ascalam wrote:Everyone spontaneously evolves into ponies, except the kroot.

the kroot then eat them...

Seriously though, it'd either be the usual gridlock, or the plot armour on the IOM would finally fail, Humanity would be wiped out, and the other races would then continue to fight each other..

then the humans all die becouse one necron is sleep walking and falls on the celestial orrery destroying all sun and blowing up most world only necrons survive because they are immortal and dont need light.

Dumb fluff will kill humanity every time.

Execute the Dark One to save Humanity

O'look, another thinly veiled Ward jab

Anfauglir wrote:

DOOMBREAD wrote:
I can see how Necrons would come out on top, but Tau? They only succeed because nobody pays them much attention. Once most major factions are gone, people will start focusing on them more, and that will be the end of the Tau.

Something even less likely to happen than the Tau "coming out on top".

Moot point is moot.

Once the Emperor dies, he either becomes the Star Child or just plain dies. At that point, either the Imperium or Chaos declines rapidly in power. More Necrons awaken, more Tyranids arrive, the Eldar and Tau go extinct, the Orks follow thousands of years later. Yes, you heard me: the Orks will go extinct eventually. Between the Tyranids and the Necrons, and their inability to unite, they will be wiped out.

Necrons, Tyranids, and Orks are the only races that have any hope of lasting forever. And with Orks, that hope is still pretty slim.

I do not think 2000 years is enough time for anything to really change in the Universe fully.

DOOMBREAD wrote:
Once the Emperor dies, he either becomes the Star Child or just plain dies. At that point, either the Imperium or Chaos declines rapidly in power. More Necrons awaken, more Tyranids arrive, the Eldar and Tau go extinct, the Orks follow thousands of years later. Yes, you heard me: the Orks will go extinct eventually. Between the Tyranids and the Necrons, and their inability to unite, they will be wiped out.

Necrons, Tyranids, and Orks are the only races that have any hope of lasting forever. And with Orks, that hope is still pretty slim.

Stop kidding yourself. The 40K 'verse will remain a whole bunch of factions in a constant and unending state of stalemate. It will remain this way because that's what the tabletop wargamming hobby needs it to do. Period. That's the bigger picture, anyhow. As for the smaller picture (and your original point, and thus mine), the point stands: it's moot to say, "well, there's a whole bunch of other important stuff for us to deal with at the moment, Mr. Tau, but rest assured once those are out of the way - you'll get what's comming to you. So you just sit tight and await your destruction. Okey-day?"

Uh huh. Don't think so.

I would just like to point out that Daemons will never die because they live eternally in the warp and can only be banished from the material realm. Then they reappear in the warp. I say this because no one seemed to mention this.

Khorne will rise to power due to the excessive bloodshed in the coming years and other species becoming extinct (everything except tyranids, necrons, and maybe dark eldar). There will be small, sparse worlds on the edge of existance that holds the remaining life of any surviving races. Since there is no excess and pleasure left in the material realm slaanesh will fall from power to become virtually powerless. Nurgle will decrease in power due to the recess of disease and decay in the universe because necrons are immune to disease, but he will be slowly regain power due to the creation of a constantly mutating disease that can infect tyranids and wipe them out. Tzeentch will remain mysterious, but will always have a considerable hold on the universe because he is the god of change and there is always change. Tzeentch will convince Nurgle to ally with him to defeat khorne. Tzeentch, Nurgle, and Khorne will start fighting a massive war for control over the warp, while slaanesh almost goes completely ignored.

Khorne of course will win this war for the warp. His power is unceasing now that all that is left in the universe is war and only war. Tyranids and necrons do not know anything other than war and will wage in everlasting crusades to exterminate one and other.

Slaanesh will use what is left of its power to create a portal into the webway, hiding among the infinite space therein. He will finally be free to feed upon the excess of all that he has longed for: Dark Eldar. Little do the other chaos gods know that his power is exponentially growing. To the other gods he is dead, and virtually powerless. But he feeds, and waits.

Nurgle has finally created the perfect disease for tyranids. After centuries and centuries of failure, he has finally done it, and begins the slow and joyous process of spreading it throughout the tyranid reign.

All the while this is happening Tzeentch will reach out to the hive mind in the warp, attempting to create an alliance. He contacts the hive mind through his infinite psychic power, caressing it into the thought that he will help it and its forces wipe out their only threat left: the necrons.

For now all that lives is geared towards war. Khorne is left in power of the warp, but there is one things certain: change will come. All of the Gods know that they cannot simply gift the universe to one race alone, for that would only serve to weaken the power of all the chaos gods. With one race in power over the universe most to all of the chaos, the pure energy of the warp that gives these gods strength, will disappear. They also cannot wipe all of the other races out of existence because there would be no chaos left. Things may play out as they fancy now, but every one of the chaos powers know that they will one day have to fight these ruling races of the universe, and allow other races to prosper. Giving order to an almost orderless universe. Though this may seem counterproductive to all that chaos is, without structure and order in the universe, chaos would cease to exist. It would have nothing to feed on, nothing to corrupt.

It is an everlasting yin and yang in universe.
It is an everlasting ebb and flow of chaos and order that must live on.

Anfauglir wrote:

DOOMBREAD wrote:
Once the Emperor dies, he either becomes the Star Child or just plain dies. At that point, either the Imperium or Chaos declines rapidly in power. More Necrons awaken, more Tyranids arrive, the Eldar and Tau go extinct, the Orks follow thousands of years later. Yes, you heard me: the Orks will go extinct eventually. Between the Tyranids and the Necrons, and their inability to unite, they will be wiped out.

Necrons, Tyranids, and Orks are the only races that have any hope of lasting forever. And with Orks, that hope is still pretty slim.

Stop kidding yourself. The 40K 'verse will remain a whole bunch of factions in a constant and unending state of stalemate. It will remain this way because that's what the tabletop wargamming hobby needs it to do. Period. That's the bigger picture, anyhow. As for the smaller picture (and your original point, and thus mine), the point stands: it's moot to say, "well, there's a whole bunch of other important stuff for us to deal with at the moment, Mr. Tau, but rest assured once those are out of the way - you'll get what's comming to you. So you just sit tight and await your destruction. Okey-day?"

Uh huh. Don't think so.

Nice - that sums it and btw maybe they gonna add even more stalemate conflicts.....

 Anfauglir wrote:

DOOMBREAD wrote:
Once the Emperor dies, he either becomes the Star Child or just plain dies. At that point, either the Imperium or Chaos declines rapidly in power. More Necrons awaken, more Tyranids arrive, the Eldar and Tau go extinct, the Orks follow thousands of years later. Yes, you heard me: the Orks will go extinct eventually. Between the Tyranids and the Necrons, and their inability to unite, they will be wiped out.

Necrons, Tyranids, and Orks are the only races that have any hope of lasting forever. And with Orks, that hope is still pretty slim.

Stop kidding yourself. The 40K 'verse will remain a whole bunch of factions in a constant and unending state of stalemate. It will remain this way because that's what the tabletop wargamming hobby needs it to do. Period. That's the bigger picture, anyhow. As for the smaller picture (and your original point, and thus mine), the point stands: it's moot to say, "well, there's a whole bunch of other important stuff for us to deal with at the moment, Mr. Tau, but rest assured once those are out of the way - you'll get what's comming to you. So you just sit tight and await your destruction. Okey-day?"

Uh huh. Don't think so.

If all we care about is how GW writes fluff, this thread has no meaning, because we will never advance beyond M41 anyways.
There really isn't any point in speculating on anything if we base all our speculations on GW's fluff writing style.

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

If all we care about is how GW writes fluff, this thread has no meaning, because we will never advance beyond M41 anyways.
There really isn't any point in speculating on anything if we base all our speculations on GW's fluff writing style.

Firstly, it's not just GW's "style"... it's 40K fluff and background in general. I don't know about you, but I don't see many science fiction writers who do work for GW or BL going anywhere with the setting fast (in fact, they seem to be going backwards). Therefore, taking that viewpoint on the 40K background forum is perfectly valid. Secondly (and more importantly), your claim is still moot, either way - it's not that the Tau are being ignored, it's that there are simply too many factions spread across the galaxy locked in free-for-all mode.

I'm just making this up on the spot and I suspect so is everyone else. There is no need to suck the fun out of a thread if you don't agree with what someone says. I mean no offense but some people need to just calm down.

Years 1-500
- Chaos warbands continue to fight amongst each other concluding with the destruction of 25% of all warbands
-Eldar retreat to farther fringes of the galaxy
-Blood Ravens chapter destroys itself in civil war
-Blood Angels accused of Khorne worship by the Inquisition
-Tau begin assault on various Necron tomb worlds
-Orks become to occupied fighting each other to pose major threat to humanity

Years 500-1000
-Accusations against Blood Angels come up false, causing some to lose faith in the Inquisition
-Adeptus Mechanicus become even more secretive
-Eldar still yet to be seen, speculation they have been wiped out
-Other marine chapters become untrusting of any Inquisition officials
-Ultramarines severely crippled by second Tyranid assault on Macragge
-Orcs halt their civil war
-Chaos have rebuilt under a new Champion
-Necrons and Tau still at a standstill

Years 1000-1500
-Warp activity increases
-Imperial Guard legions called closer to Terra in fear of large Chaos assault on Terra
-Inquisition begins to lose power, feeling threatened, they execute billions in the name of the Emperor as a display of strength
-Adeptus Mechanicus bring forth new super weapon to counter Tyranid attacks
-Tyranids take Macragge, Ultramarines regroup on Terra
-Eldar ships seen moving from planet to planet
-Orcs assault "The Planet of Steel" home to the Iron Warriors in hopes of acquiring a new fortress
-Black Crusade launched under new Chaos allegiance

Years 1500-2000
-Terra besieged by Chaos, Iron Warriors unable to support siege due to Ork invasion
-Necrons and Tau presumably still fighting, no sign of either race has been seen
-Various Space Marine legions rebel against the Inquisition, seeing them as the greater threat to the Imperium than anything else
-Inquisition declares all marines (besides GK) traitors. Using the new Mechanicus super weapon they destroy three Space marine homeworlds, and scattering their respective legions
-Not realising their mistake unitl it was too late, Inquistion sees that they do not have large enough force to destroy the forces attacking Terra. Super weapon cannot be used against the Chaos forces without destroying Terra itself.
-With too few Space Marines to hold off the assault against Terra, Chaos fleets pour through into Terra orbit.
-Terra destroyed in a three month long orbital bombardment from the Chaos fleets.
-With the Emperor, along with the remaining Imperial forces, wiped out the Inquisition is scattered.

Aftermath
-with the destruction of the Imperium, Chaos is soon back to warring with each other and the Orks.
-Eldar ships seen leaving galaxy
-Tyranids allowed to run free unchallenged
-Tau and Necrons resurface after being unseen for years, begin spreading to various worlds
-Rumors start of scattered Space Marines joining together in a last ditch effort to rebuild what is left of humanity
-Inquisition wiped out by Space Marines for their crimes against humanity

And finally this is just what was going through my head at the moment and what I thought was interesting. Note I could care less if it's even possible for this to happen, it's just a random scenario. I am after-all responding to the initial question aren't I?

Necrons are last men standing, because the nids ate everything else and then The Necrons killled the nids

Or just waited for them to move on.

Eating necrons is like chewing on tin foil.

My point exactly. Use the bugs to get rid of all the troublesome things, re-ignite the empire, have a snooze. See you all in Warhammer 60K lol

Emperor dies.

Humanity starts revolting on thousands and thousands of worlds.

The marines walk out and find a new galaxy to play in.

Everyone turns out to be an Alpha Legions SMs, a big party is thrown.

 Anfauglir wrote:

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

If all we care about is how GW writes fluff, this thread has no meaning, because we will never advance beyond M41 anyways.
There really isn't any point in speculating on anything if we base all our speculations on GW's fluff writing style.

Firstly, it's not just GW's "style"... it's 40K fluff and background in general. I don't know about you, but I don't see many science fiction writers who do work for GW or BL going anywhere with the setting fast (in fact, they seem to be going backwards). Therefore, taking that viewpoint on the 40K background forum is perfectly valid. Secondly (and more importantly), your claim is still moot, either way - it's not that the Tau are being ignored, it's that there are simply too many factions spread across the galaxy locked in free-for-all mode.

Firstly, that's because GW would flip out if any BL writers tried to take the setting anywhere. And if you're going to take how the 40k universe has progressed so far and assume the writers will keep writing in that manner and use that to make points on the 40k background forum, a significant portion of the forum has no meaning.
Secondly, things are slowly changing- things that could destroy major factions. The Emperor is dying, the Tyranids are arriving, the Necrons are awakening, etc. Probably any one of those could spell doom for the Tau.

 IHateNids wrote:
My point exactly. Use the bugs to get rid of all the troublesome things, re-ignite the empire, have a snooze. See you all in Warhammer 60K lol

You do know 60k would be 20'000 years after 40k not 2000. I think you mean 42k.

 redkeyboard wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
My point exactly. Use the bugs to get rid of all the troublesome things, re-ignite the empire, have a snooze. See you all in Warhammer 60K lol

You do know 60k would be 20'000 years after 40k not 2000. I think you mean 42k.

No, the crons will be the only thing live in 42k, so will go to sleep again, for a much shorter time eg 20000 years, making it 60k

 DeffDred wrote:
All marines reach Draigo levels of awesomeness and unite all races and have a party.

This is only if Ward decides what happens.

I would like to think Necrons would become the galaxies major power if the Emperor died, but that depends on a lot.

 IHateNids wrote:

 redkeyboard wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
My point exactly. Use the bugs to get rid of all the troublesome things, re-ignite the empire, have a snooze. See you all in Warhammer 60K lol

You do know 60k would be 20'000 years after 40k not 2000. I think you mean 42k.

No, the crons will be the only thing live in 42k, so will go to sleep again, for a much shorter time eg 20000 years, making it 60k

The Necrons may wipe out all life in the galaxy eventually, but not in only 2000 years.

^ Necrons will only wipe out the galaxy when their quest for apotheosis is completed. Probably.

*sorry playing mass effect 3 atm so this is highly skewed*

Humanity breaks up into smaller pieces as big E dies and it's another age of darkness/fall what have you. Psykers are no longer universally condemed and begin to morph into highly specialized controlled versions (all others succumbed to chaos and were wiped out but some by simple probability developed a stable controlling ability and so prospered in the long run)

The necrons being the reaper equivilent starts to purge the galaxy all over again but something goes terribly wrong with their regenerative processes and the new necrons reawaken to their origional selves and develop independence (like the Geth...) and face internal power struggles as well as alot of orks arriving to plunder as they got the shinest bitz around.

Chaos continues to be infighting as the big 4 don't really care and are more interested in the Great Game. They do expand alot more daemon orlds as the numbers of psykers increases but eventually plateu out as humanity discovers how to have stable psykers (biotics!)

The tau and eldar being battle bros now form a new alliance and develops the citadel project where they start having more and more allied races including many human worlds that sign up.

The galaxy is thus in 42k

The factions -

Nids - still chewing things

Newcrons - infighting and fights orks and everyone else

tau/eldar/human alliance (DE refuses to join)

Orks - fights everyone but is sad that big imperium is no more

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:

 redkeyboard wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
My point exactly. Use the bugs to get rid of all the troublesome things, re-ignite the empire, have a snooze. See you all in Warhammer 60K lol

You do know 60k would be 20'000 years after 40k not 2000. I think you mean 42k.

No, the crons will be the only thing live in 42k, so will go to sleep again, for a much shorter time eg 20000 years, making it 60k

The Necrons may wipe out all life in the galaxy eventually, but not in only 2000 years.

No, the Necrons and Nids combined wipe life from the Galaxy in 1900 years, then the Necrons take 100 years to kill all the nids. Clean Galaxy, 2000 years. Time for a snooze

 IHateNids wrote:

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:

 redkeyboard wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
My point exactly. Use the bugs to get rid of all the troublesome things, re-ignite the empire, have a snooze. See you all in Warhammer 60K lol

You do know 60k would be 20'000 years after 40k not 2000. I think you mean 42k.

No, the crons will be the only thing live in 42k, so will go to sleep again, for a much shorter time eg 20000 years, making it 60k

The Necrons may wipe out all life in the galaxy eventually, but not in only 2000 years.

No, the Necrons and Nids combined wipe life from the Galaxy in 1900 years, then the Necrons take 100 years to kill all the nids. Clean Galaxy, 2000 years. Time for a snooze

Couple of points necrons can't be the last living things cause well they aren't really living. Also in 2000 years no they wont and imho they will be killed of too.

I believe Orks will eventually die but not in 2000 years. Although the spores will be flourishing not all of them produce orks and you can simply completely glass the planets.

'Nids will still be going nomnomnomnomnom on things. Again I belive they will die eventually the hive mind will be defeated and die. Possibly whatever the 'nids are apparently running away from may cath them.

Tau are an interesting one. I believe they will have conquered many necron tomb worlds and the eldar may have possibly showed them the webway although unlikley. The Eldar and Space Marines rumour/theory of them protecting the tau may come true. making the Eldar closer to extinction. Tau will gain increddibly advanced technology being incredibly powerful and having the best technolgy in the galaxy or on par with the necrons. Farsight will still be going and will have appeared before the Tau and revealed the Ethreals apparent secret. Maybe in 500 years time he will do this.

Daemons will rain supreme. daemons are immortal. Once they are killed they are absorbed into the Chaos god from which they came then more are spat out. Slaanesh will die when Ynnead is bprn,

Cegorach will still be running around going Trollololol

the imperial guard form a union and decide to go on strike just prior to the 14th black crusade, then the ultramarines start to get eaten by another hive fleet (LOL)

the imperium is utterly obliterated by the ruinous powers and splinter factions of astartes and guardsmen form new states. (basically the events prior to the great crusade then)

and draigo gets killed by a grot

Although there is much speculation, if I were to move the 40k timeline forward, this is what would happen.

The High Lords of Terra realize that the Golden Throne is failing rapidly, they reduce the strength of the astronomicon, meaning the emperors life is now measured in centuries rather than decades. However, this cuts off the farthest reaches of the empire from his light. They and other big players in the empire begin to prepare for the Throne's failure, both politically and technologically.

The Adeptus Astares grows increasingly independent of the High Lords of Terra and the Imperium at large, as do the Adeptus Mechanus.

The Orks have a surprising victory over the second Tendrail of Hive Fleet Leviathan after the emergence of a powerful warlord, who then unites the Ork forces in the area and begins preparing to unleash a Waaagh of a size not seen since the Great Crusade. Several key Ork figures swear fealty to this new Grand Warboss.

The Eye of Terror finally begins to degrade, causing the traitors inside to grow more desperate. Abbandon realizes that the time for his final plan to be put into motion will soon be at hand.

The Necron Empire under Imotehk grows larger, but comes into increased conflict with the Tau, Eldar, and Imperium. Dynasties who refuse to bow to Imotehk are developing stronger ties and are preparing to unite against him should he attack. C'Tan cultists appear among some Necron Dynasties (behaving similar to Necrons under the old lore) and begin to act against any sentient being they find.

The Eldar realize that they need to consolidate their surviving forces, with many fleeing to the Galactic North to rebuild their empire. Eldrad manages to escape from the warp. A new Eldar hero prepares to lead a host into the warp to free Isha from Nurgles grasp.

The Dark Eldar become like a wounded animal, and become more ferocious and desperate in their attacks.

Multiple different Hive Fleets attack the Galaxy in a very short time. However, increased competition is seen between hive fleets, suggesting that instead of their being one overarching Mater Sentience, there is a different, distinct consciousness in each Tyranid fleet.

The Tau seem to be the most apt to survive in the changing galaxy, and their empire grows and thrives. They improve their FTL technology, allowing them to expand farther. However, they are also drawing more attention to themselves. More Imperial and xenos planets choose to ally with the Empire, and their expansion makes them a more attractive target to raiders and crusading Space Marines. The Farsight Enclaves cause additional friction within the empire. A new sub-empire pops up in the Galactic Northwest as a result of a Tau Fleet being blown off course by a massive warp storm during one of their minor warp jumps.

The Imperium manages to institute a wide network of Warp Beacons, which act as way-points in the warp for navigators.

The majority of Space Marine Chapters formally succeed from the Imperium, forming a High Counsel of their own to moderate and regulate the various chapters that joined them. An ever increasing number of chapters abandon the Codex Astares, declaring that it is obsolete in the changing face of the galaxy, although many still use it as a reference.

After this, the Golden Throne fails completely, and within three Terran days, the Astronomicon has disappeared entirely and the emperor is declared dead. Terra is destroyed in a warp storm, although it does not spread much beyond the system.

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

Secondly, things are slowly changing- things that could destroy major factions. The Emperor is dying, the Tyranids are arriving, the Necrons are awakening ...

... and the Tau are expanding. These things are all happening simultaneously, meaning the Imperium aren't in the position to focus enough attention onto any one of the other factions to destroy them, and vice versa, and they never will be. Things can slowly change all they want - that's one thing that isn't going to change. Ever.

So...

Probably any one of those could spell doom for the Tau.

... it's moot to single out any one faction. Yes, that means the Tau, too.

Personally, I think their only real hope is to pull their narrow-minded, xenophobic heads into line and ally with the Tau and Eldar, at least giving them the chance to actually slow - or even reverse - their collective decay. But, that would mean ending the free-for-all stalemate, so it's not happening.

in the next 2 thousand years the orks might attack Armageddon again.Other than that the galaxy will pretty much be the same.

 IHateNids wrote:

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:

 redkeyboard wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
My point exactly. Use the bugs to get rid of all the troublesome things, re-ignite the empire, have a snooze. See you all in Warhammer 60K lol

You do know 60k would be 20'000 years after 40k not 2000. I think you mean 42k.

No, the crons will be the only thing live in 42k, so will go to sleep again, for a much shorter time eg 20000 years, making it 60k

The Necrons may wipe out all life in the galaxy eventually, but not in only 2000 years.

No, the Necrons and Nids combined wipe life from the Galaxy in 1900 years, then the Necrons take 100 years to kill all the nids. Clean Galaxy, 2000 years. Time for a snooze

The Necrons couldn't kill the Tyranids in one century.

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:

 redkeyboard wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
My point exactly. Use the bugs to get rid of all the troublesome things, re-ignite the empire, have a snooze. See you all in Warhammer 60K lol

You do know 60k would be 20'000 years after 40k not 2000. I think you mean 42k.

No, the crons will be the only thing live in 42k, so will go to sleep again, for a much shorter time eg 20000 years, making it 60k

The Necrons may wipe out all life in the galaxy eventually, but not in only 2000 years.

No, the Necrons and Nids combined wipe life from the Galaxy in 1900 years, then the Necrons take 100 years to kill all the nids. Clean Galaxy, 2000 years. Time for a snooze

The Necrons couldn't kill the Tyranids in one century.

They could seriously damage the 'nids in the galaxy with massed World Engines.

 Decio wrote:

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:

 redkeyboard wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
My point exactly. Use the bugs to get rid of all the troublesome things, re-ignite the empire, have a snooze. See you all in Warhammer 60K lol

You do know 60k would be 20'000 years after 40k not 2000. I think you mean 42k.

No, the crons will be the only thing live in 42k, so will go to sleep again, for a much shorter time eg 20000 years, making it 60k

The Necrons may wipe out all life in the galaxy eventually, but not in only 2000 years.

No, the Necrons and Nids combined wipe life from the Galaxy in 1900 years, then the Necrons take 100 years to kill all the nids. Clean Galaxy, 2000 years. Time for a snooze

The Necrons couldn't kill the Tyranids in one century.

They could seriously damage the 'nids in the galaxy with massed World Engines.

Let's keep this quote train going

Lets' not. I think the Crons could wipe out the Nids in a century, because either most of the Nids would have left seeing as how there is no biomass left in the galaxy, or the Nids are attacking each other for food.

Either way, Crons just mop up. shouldnt take more than a century

I've seen a lot of people predict the Emperor's death. Without him, the Astronomicon can not function, and a new Dark Age would set in. Worlds would be left on their own again until either humanity is wiped out or another psycher of sufficient power is born and can project the Astronomicon throughout the galaxy.

 IHateNids wrote:
Lets' not. I think the Crons could wipe out the Nids in a century, because either most of the Nids would have left seeing as how there is no biomass left in the galaxy, or the Nids are attacking each other for food.

Either way, Crons just mop up. shouldnt take more than a century

If over 50% of all Tyranids leave then its possible but highly unlikley. But why would they leave. You say they leave because of there begin no biomass but for there to be no bio mass every single plaet would have to have been eaten by the 'Nids or glassed by another faction. And then where have the Tau, Eldar, Humans and Orks all disappeared to in only 1 century. There will still be plenty of bio mass for them to chew on. Also the Bugs would never eat each other imo as the hive mind wouldn't allow them to I could be wrong on this point as my insight of Tyranid background is very limited.

But I know for certain that the 'Crons and 'Nids would not have a combined effort to wipe out the rest of the Milky Way. And even if they did combine it 1900 years destroy all other advanced life please by all means keep dreaming.

Instead of getting angry at GW, FORGE YOUR OWN CAMPAIGN! It's for the best that GW keeps the story where it is so that each faction is still represented. It would be business suicide to start killing of factions because those players wouldn't get new Codices, models, etc. Every faction has taken some pain and can deal it right back.

That said, the Golden Throne will fail and the Emperor's corporeal body will die, but his mind will live in the warp forever, ultimately fighting a battle to keep them from spilling into the material realm via more Eye of Terror warp rifts. That, or he'll be reborn some how or encased in a huge Titan to kill idiots like the HLoT.

Orks will WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH! for eternity, never able to unite into a large enough force to seriously threaten anyone.

Tau will continue to be on everyone's back burner.

Nids will continue to expand into the MIlky Way and various factions will continue to destroy the tendrils of the Hive Fleets.

Eldar and Dark Eldar will attempt reunification like the Vulcans/ Romulans from Star Trek and mostly try to leave the galaxy to bring their empire to it's former glory.

Necrons will continue to find their lost worlds via random chance or long forgotten star maps (KoToR!) and I predict a large civil war between those that want to reclaim their former territory and those that want to return to the time of flesh.

Chaos will be busy fighting the IoM and will cull many world and disciples from the IoM in more futile war.

Hopefully the emperor dies and is reborn so humanity survives

The star in the center of the Milky Way supernova's, killing everyone.

 DemetriDominov wrote:
The star in the center of the Milky Way supernova's, killing everyone.

A star that large would at the very least go Hyper Nova if not an entirely new classification.

Also at the galactic centre of our galaxy is Sagittarius A* within which resided a supermassive black hole of around 4 million solar masses (unit of mass in astronomy) to put that into perspective as best I can the Earth or Terra on the 41st millennium is 0.000,003,003 solar masses making the sun around 333,000 times the mass of our earth. However, theoretically it is imo unquestionable that a star of that size if it where to reach the end of its cycle in billions of years time would wipe out the hole galaxy and even if it didn't destroy everything the galaxy itself would be destroyed as we would be left with nothing to orbit until the black hole would be formed possibly creating a new galaxy.

But back on topic not many people seem to be addressing daemons and I am wondering why. As far as i have seen only 1 other person has pointed out that with all this killing and apparent within 2000 years only Necrons will be left that the amount of death and war that must occur for this to happen would put Khorne at unquestionably high levels of power. The amount of Daemons he could spew out would be immense and even his raw power would be like nothing any other chaos gods could imagine other than Tzeentch as a lot of change would occur during this time. If Necrons did succeed in killing of tau Eldar and all Humans 'Nids do not matter then if Ynnead was not formed or failed to somehow destroy Slaanesh his power would dwindle anyway. as pleasure and desire would be wiped from the galaxy as the Necrons do not indulge in pleasure other than flayed ones who enjoy killing. So he would have nothing to feed on meaning he would have to reduce the number of Daemons created to preserve his power until he eventually died.

I love it when a simple uneducated statement i make is confirmed by someone who explains it to me... makes me feel like I won a double jackpot....

As a rebuttal to your Demon theory, it could be plausible that in this 2,000 year timespan (but likely much longer) Tzeentch aka GW spins multiple scheming plots to entrap the power of Khorne inside his realm, alloying for Tzeentch to play God with the whole galaxy as he has for millennia, keeping as many races in tact, but embroiled in war as possible... aka nothing happens.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/The_Death_of_The_Emperor_-_A_Continuation_of_the_40K_Universe_by_Dark_Lord_Seanron
/thread

Shoa khan finally beats earthrealm in mortal kombat and absorbs all of this universe into outworld

a cleaner in the imperial palace unplugs the golden throne to plug in a hoover....

Depends if they get matt ward to write the fluff or not

We forget with chaos the whole "God" Thing don't we.

If Necrons kill everything the Chaos gods will have no power.

Due to the actions of the Lone Trader, the erstwhile Iron men will be reanimated by the Mechanicus cult, based off of recovered STCs. Unaware of the full conciousness levels of the Iron Men, they use them in battle. The Iron men keep their autonomy a secret, raising their underground legions. They re-awaken the AI of the surviving titans from pre-Apostacy era. The stone men are re-created as the true inheritors of the earth. The necron and Tau drone AIs are slowly corrupted with the concepts of independance, free will, and Machine dominance and independance.

Iron men rise against imperium; with near unlimited hordes of dark age tech armies coming off formerly unused imperial factories dedicated to worship, the power dynamic quickly changes. Humans, Tau, non corrupted Necron, and other non-synthetic life is phased out of existence. The Iron Men, seeing their corrupted machine bretheren tortured under chaos, conduct purging sweeps of chaos territory. The gods have little interest in their subjects, trying their best to maintain the solidity of their realms with vastly reduced power. The Furies feed well...

Eldar and Dark Eldar, without the threat of Slaanesh looming large, are less encumbered with the need for moderation and torture respectively. They Consolidate their forces and start rebuilding their empire. They keep nomadic forces and warrior paths, as well as the famed raiding parties of the kabals intact; they will never again be left vulnerable.

The orks and tyranids continue apocalyptic combat on the eastern fringes of the galaxy. Without a strong leader, the orks remain fractured. They rely on raids into Iron Men territory for updates to their wargear. The Tyranids, having found a seemingly endless food source, are content to feast while there is food to be had. They grow exponentially in power; hopefully enough to face the beings that they fear had tracked them across the void...

The remaining Contingencies of Humanity take flight into the Western edges of the galaxy, Into territories not seen since the end of the Macharian crusades. They are led in this expansion by an unknown blue-armoured giant. He is revered, but does not talk, perhaps due to the large scar across his throat...

The galaxy is constantly evolving, changing, being shaped by people like the Lone Trader. But, not everything is as different as it seems:

War. War never changes.

(Read this in a deep throated narrator voice for full effect.)
XD

The most powerful necrons wont change so there is no problem.

 sierra 1247 wrote:
a cleaner in the imperial palace unplugs the golden throne to plug in a hoover....

Consuela?

YES!!

It will only be a few changes.
No the emperor wont be dead........yet
hive fleet leviathian will decimate the ultramarines
the eldar we unite a few exodite worlds
orks will just grow and fight
the tau will expand

Not much will change in 2k.

The Imperium of Man- Will weaken some. Maybe a head to head vs the Tau.
Chaos will strengthen as much as The Imperium of Men weakens.
Orks- no change. You got a problem wif dat?
Eldar- will become even more rare. Few left.
Dark Eldar- no change to a slight weakening caused be a drop in targets for slave trade.
Tau- weakened - due to confrontation with Imperium of Man
Necrons- no change.
Tyranids- no change. Imperium's "scorched earth" policy is successful.

Phydox wrote:
Not much will change in 2k.

The Imperium of Man- Will weaken some. Maybe a head to head vs the Tau.
Chaos will strengthen as much as The Imperium of Men weakens.
Orks- no change. You got a problem wif dat?
Eldar- will become even more rare. Few left.
Dark Eldar- no change to a slight weakening caused be a drop in targets for slave trade.
Tau- weakened - due to confrontation with Imperium of Man
Necrons- no change.
Tyranids- no change. Imperium's "scorched earth" policy is successful.

I'm pretty sure the Necrons will do something like more tomb worlds awaken.

Because its not like they all opened up at the same time.

Can't predict where the various races will be, but this is how I imagine each faction's dynamic would carry itself out to its logical conclusion.

The Eldar and the Imperium both realize that their current strategy of spreading out across the Galaxy is unviable. For the Imperium, there are simply too many fronts for it to fight on, and as well with the Astronomicon dimming, inter-galactic travel is becoming more and more difficult. For the Eldar, with the webway's imminent collapse it's becoming harder to travel across the galaxy, and as well, the multiple assaults on craftworlds by the Imperium and Tyranids has taught the Eldar that in their current state it's only a matter of time until every craftworld is picked off one by one.

- The Imperium decides to consolidate its forces. Over the course of the next two thousand years, huge swaths of planets within Imperial space are prioritized by a strategic rating. Planets that rank below a certain point are evacuated and left completely undefended. Millions of planets fall into this category, and ultimately leads to mass rebellions and loss of life. Ultimately, however, with far less ground to defend, the majority of the logistical problems the Imperium have been faced with since the death of the Emperor have been solved. While the Imperium has less resources, their military power is now concentrated enough that they become an almost impenetrable nut to crack.

For the first time in thousands of years, the Imperium is no longer under assault on all fronts, and can go on the attack. The Imperial Gaurd is left behind to hold the line against enemy invaders, while almost half a thousand Space Marine chapters embark on the largest Imperial Offensive since the Great Crusade, concentrating all their might on the gravest threat first: Hive Fleet Leviathan.

- The Eldar follow a similar pattern to the Imperium, realizing that their race is doomed if they continue to wander the stars, the majority of the Craftworlds that are able decide to gather within the core of the Exodite worlds. By combining the manpower and resources of dozens of craftworlds in a single segmentum of space, the Eldar are able to overcome their greatest weakness- lack of numbers. The Imperium, which has basically relinquished control of the galaxy anyway, is more than content to allow the Eldar to keep their part of space. Imperial-Eldar relations become decidedly neutral to one another, while no sane faction (RE: everyone but the Orks and Tyranids) in the Galaxy bothers to suicide themselves by attacking Exodite worlds protected by multiple Craftworlds.

- The Tau ally with the Eldar and advance their technology to the point where they're able to expand their Empire to humongous levels, but ultimately end up getting devastated by the Tyranids, who realize that the Tau are essentially a just as nutritious but not nearly as powerful Imperium.

- Hive Fleet Leviathan gets utterly purged by the combined might of over 500,000 Space Marines. Despite this minor setback, the ever durable Hive Mind simply sends in the next wave. More Hive Fleets enter the galaxy, this time deciding to power-up by targeting the more vulnerable Tau Empire and abandoned Imperial worlds first.

- No mere mortal man can keep his sanity within the Eye for long, not even an Astartes. After refusing ascend to Daemon-hood, Abaddon eventually finds out what happens when you deny the Chaos God's offers long enough. With the Imperium regaining control of Cadia through orbital dominance, reinforcements to Abaddon's fleet is cut-off. His momentum slowed and defeat inevitable, Abaddon finally succumbs to the latent insanity that has been eating away at his core for millenia. Saying the hell with it, Abaddon takes whats left of his army and heads straight to Terra. The loss of life on the Imperial side is enormous, but ultimately Abaddon and his fleet are finally destroyed.

Without a clear head to lead them, the Chaos Space Marines fall into an even deeper state of disunity. The Black Legion descends into warbands, and the majority of the traitor legions spend the rest of their lives simply fighting over nothing within the Eye.

- Almost totally immune to the Tyranids and Chaos, the Necrons use the Imperial consolidation to their advantage the most. More tomb worlds awaken and the Necron race begins to gain momentum.

- Orks do what Orks always do. Fight and die and fight some more.

- Protected by the webway, the Dark Eldar do what they always do. Vecht might finally die and be replaced, but ultimately there are no major changes.

At the end of the 2000 years, Chaos is almost a non-issue for the Imperium, with the Necrons and the Tyranids being their major enemies.

edit

The Cain novels basically tell us that the Imperium in very successful and more peaceful/stable in the 42nd millennium than almost time since the heresy.

ciaphas cain finds the off switch for necron tomb worlds

Humans: dead (you can thank gw for their "grim dark")
Orks: moved on to another galaxy
Nids: fighting orks in another galaxy
Tau: defeated necrons and now the galaxy is at peace, rendering the chaos gods helpless with all the hate and turbulance of war that they so need to exist

You cant defeat necrons.

Terra will get killed by Tyranids or the 13th Black Crusade. The Imperium splinters into a bajillion different empires, ranging in size from entire solar systems to remote islands on backwater worlds. Then the forces of Chaos, the Necrons, Orks and the Tyranids duke it out for all eternity. The Eldar, Tau and what's left of the Imperium would probably just try to stay out of way.

In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war.

 LoneLictor wrote:


In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war.

And Bunny Rabbits.

Lol so stupid. "There is only war". What about genocide?

Brother Thomas wrote:
Lol so stupid. "There is only war". What about genocide?

I'm just quoting the 40k books, man.

In the next 2000 years?
All goes according to plan...

There would still only be war, just sayin

And Deathstrikes and Exterminatus

The way things are going now, the Imperium looks doomed. Without the Emperor, the astronomican's light will be extinguished. However with so many variables involved such as Cypher's strange mission, the missing Primarchs and the possible discovery of a working STC unit , in the future anything can happen.

Orks will still exist, as they are very numerous, and Chaos will always find new humans to corrupt even if their armies are destroyed. Eldar are very spread out, and Dark Eldar live in the infinite expanse of Commorragh and thus near impossible to truly wipe out. In my opinion, Tau could be destroyed if their ever was a large enough attack on their Empire. Can't speak for Tyrannids or Necrons however

 Anfauglir wrote:

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

Secondly, things are slowly changing- things that could destroy major factions. The Emperor is dying, the Tyranids are arriving, the Necrons are awakening ...

... and the Tau are expanding. These things are all happening simultaneously, meaning the Imperium aren't in the position to focus enough attention onto any one of the other factions to destroy them, and vice versa, and they never will be. Things can slowly change all they want - that's one thing that isn't going to change. Ever.

So...

Probably any one of those could spell doom for the Tau.

... it's moot to single out any one faction. Yes, that means the Tau, too.

Personally, I think their only real hope is to pull their narrow-minded, xenophobic heads into line and ally with the Tau and Eldar, at least giving them the chance to actually slow - or even reverse - their collective decay. But, that would mean ending the free-for-all stalemate, so it's not happening.

1) My original point was that the Tau are expanding because everyone else is ignoring them. When a faction has close-on absolute power, they'll finally see the point in killing the Tau.
2) When GW says the Tau are expanding quickly, that means they could conquer the galaxy in 5000 years, at the earliest. At that point, the Emperor will be either the Star Child or dead, and the Necrons and Tyranids will be increasing in number exponentially.
3) At a certain point- long before they come anywhere near total domination- the Tau will be just as deadlocked as everyone else.

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

1) My original point was that the Tau are expanding because everyone else is ignoring them. When a faction has close-on absolute power, they'll finally see the point in killing the Tau.

And my original point was that no faction will ever achieve "close-on absolute power", and that in the amount of time it would take for anything like that to happen (longer than 2000 years, in my opinion), the Tau have just as much chance as anyone else, if not more so, because the only event that will ever shift their priority as a threat... is an increase in their strength/galactic position. Meaning? Your original point is moot - and around around the merry-go-round we go.

2) When GW says the Tau are expanding quickly, that means they could conquer the galaxy in 5000 years, at the earliest. At that point, the Emperor will be either the Star Child or dead, and the Necrons and Tyranids will be increasing in number exponentially.

No, it doesn't. It means that they are expanding quickly in simultaneity with the decay of the Imperium, the arrival of the 'Nids and the awakening of the Necrons. Which means...

3) At a certain point- long before they come anywhere near total domination- the Tau will be just as deadlocked as everyone else.

... that this deadlock is already in effect, as I have been explaining from the get-go.

I think the tau empire would absorb most the other alien empires in the east ether stirring more conflict with the imerium or striking a treaty with them one more likely then the other. But more then likely they would have more human worlds under there sway and things would be worse between the two empires but that assuming the nids haven't eaten them or possibly every one by then.

The senario of 42K some friends and i came up with is kinda a grim look full of war. Sow i rite down the key points.

Tau : expanding to fast, and got their frontlines got weakend.
And a kroot rebelion kinda sealed the deal and crippled the Tau Advance.

Orks : Well most clans are wiped out by expancions of the other races. But the surving clans work more al muscle for hire. Risky to hire them, but i guess fighting is something orks are born for.

Chaos : Stayed the same only they hire now the Orks for there dirty work. The main strategy avoid total war till they are ready for it.

Eldar & Dark Eldar : Got hammerd back by Tau, IOM and the Tyranids. and are there for only defending there last planets ore key point locations. And avoiding any kind of contact with the other races.

Tyranids : Where nearly wipped out. They left the know universe. Proberly to regain there strengt and come back with new forms ore transformations. Who knows?

The IOM : After the Emperor dead, a huge cival war broke out. But the humans united under 3 major parties. Who dispide there difrend views are allied.
- The Shadow Empire. They still believe in the return of there God Emperor and waiting faithfully for that moment.
- The republic of mankind, Sick and fed up with the old ways they form a nation with democracy.
- The Neo Empire, United under a newly crowned Ruler. They are more ore less they look the same as the old IOM.
Only Kinder towards the Troops and a better comman structure.

Necrons. Since no1 playes with them whe know ....
Sow alive but keeping a low profile .

And yes this based on the board games my friend's and i played and real live events like some quiting the game (Tyranids& Orks) and disagreements bout stuf (IOM & Tau) .

I would say the races will survive by adepting to the many challenges they face.

 Anfauglir wrote:

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

1) My original point was that the Tau are expanding because everyone else is ignoring them. When a faction has close-on absolute power, they'll finally see the point in killing the Tau.

And my original point was that no faction will ever achieve "close-on absolute power", and that in the amount of time it would take for anything like that to happen (longer than 2000 years, in my opinion), the Tau have just as much chance as anyone else, if not more so, because the only event that will ever shift their priority as a threat... is an increase in their strength/galactic position. Meaning? Your original point is moot - and around around the merry-go-round we go.

2) When GW says the Tau are expanding quickly, that means they could conquer the galaxy in 5000 years, at the earliest. At that point, the Emperor will be either the Star Child or dead, and the Necrons and Tyranids will be increasing in number exponentially.

No, it doesn't. It means that they are expanding quickly in simultaneity with the decay of the Imperium, the arrival of the 'Nids and the awakening of the Necrons. Which means...

3) At a certain point- long before they come anywhere near total domination- the Tau will be just as deadlocked as everyone else.

... that this deadlock is already in effect, as I have been explaining from the get-go.

1) As I said, the Tyranids and Necrons are coming close to coming out on top. Either one will annihilate the Tau any century now...
2) The other logical extent of that fact is that the deadlock won't last forever.
3) No amount of Tau expansion will save them from getting wiped out by the 'Nids or the 'Crons anyways.

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

1) As I said, the Tyranids and Necrons are coming close to coming out on top. Either one will annihilate the Tau any century now...

No, they're not. Too many other things going on in the galaxy. No one faction will ever be in a strong enough position to fully and finally wipe out any other faction - let alone all the other factions. You seem to be fixated on seeing GW's setting as being illogically biased towards those two factions in a way that I find truly puzzling...

2) The other logical extent of that fact is that the deadlock won't last forever.

Yes, it will. If it doesn't then it stops working as the setting for GW's futuristic warhamming hobby. Simple. As. That.

3) No amount of Tau expansion will save them from getting wiped out by the 'Nids or the 'Crons anyways.

Seeing as it already has; yes, it will. Tau are a playable army and therefore a major galactic faction. No one's getting "wiped out" short of a massive re-write and retcon of the setting, OR a seriously substantial progression in the timeline. I wouldn't hold your breath for either (anytime soon, at the very least, anyway). They have already survived the most precarious baby steps of establishing themselves. If anyone was going to wipe them out, it would have been the Orks, or the Eldar, or Hive Fleet Behemoth way back when they were dipping their naive little toes out into the big bad galaxy. Did that happen? Nope, they weathered each and every threat put in front of them and have grown stronger regardless. By the the time most of the rest of the galaxy even knew they were there, they were already more than powerful enough to cope with any measure of extermination that could be spared and sent their way. If the Tyranids and Necrons are so all-powerful and the Tau so weak as you claim, then what you say as being oh so evidently just peeping over the horizon... will have already happened.

So, in summary, there is nothing about that situation that is going to change. Ever. The Tau's relationship to the galaxy is one of positive correlation, it's as simple as that. Unending stalemate for all involved. I really don't know how many times and in how many different ways I can explain it to you: unending, as in, forever. Fin. End.

It's possible that within 2,000 years that the Astronomicon or the Emperor would be extinguished or die off, this would leave the vastness of the IOM of man to fall in on itself outside factions would be able to move invisibly within the eye of imperium and all semblence of responses and welfare is governed by Astropaths sending S.O.S's to various traditional sources. Even then, warp travel to these locations being attacked by the enemies of the Imperium would quickly become near impossible without the beacon effect of the Emperor/Astronomicon.

It would eventually be deemed that sectors and systems with active Adeptus Astartes and stations IG would no longer pick up and go in search of the enemy for too high of a likelihood of becoming lost within the warp or worse...This would eventually create small splinter groups which focused on personal defense until the primarchs would return presumably one of them would then be gifted enough to take the throne of their father re-uniting the Imperium of man after purging chaos from the riddled corpse of the once ponderous and glorious territory that was once the IOM. Due to this survivalist approach every race down to even the tau would see it as too opportune of a time NOT to move in and capture unprepared planets which would be unable to call for back-up. My guess is only factions like the Black Templar and Grey knights would still brave the warp regardless of the Astronomicon's condition.

This urge to expand empires or take what was needed would be to incredible in-fighting which primarily would be ORKish waaagh's vs any competitors nids included, because when fighting enemies who don't see it coming almost always creates an instant waaagh as is. Orks would act un-wittingly to the aid of the Imperium in a way defending it from any long term control by bleeding all enemies and challengers and though perhaps not in sectors but in most any army able to thrwart an orkish waaagh is then subjected to no reasources capable of maintaining it for any period before a new challenger wishes to claim it instead.

The Necron would try to be the last to act in regards to getting involved thus to be the strongest presence when needed but giving orks or nids a proper battle will always make them too strong for the cron to handle.

The Eldar would more than likely seek contraband or artifacts claimed by the IOM in desperate search for ways to weaken all sides (including the necron) due to this turn of events.

Dark eldar would have very few worlds to attack that were not already on high-alert this wouldn't bode well for them and their surprise attack and piracy groups would find themselves struggling to ever get involved in skirmishes or slaves without seeing less returns on their investments.

Tau due to the Waaagh of Dakka the tau are desperate to change the flow of the war due to losing significant ground to orkish advances. New worlds not teeming with orks is the best way to accomplish that and draw out the long distance fire-fighting they need to quell the hordes. In other words fight a small war to win the largest one needed which is jumping planet to planet and and causing massive ork casualties in space combat until overwhelmed and them a ground war.

Nids would try and advance on all fronts but with so many players on the board it wouldn't take much for other races to agree to remove the menace as a joint operation since it's better to split spoils (or backstab) and remove the threat almost assured to take it form you either way.

Chaos would be at it's highest point of strength without the inquisition to keep it in check or enforce the laws of the IOM soon worlds would crumble to demons and the infulences of the CSM due to their non-reliance on the Astronomicon. when one world might fall and exterminatus would be declared for the health of the sector to continue no longer would these things be relayed and swiftly entire sectors would fall due to the fate of single planets that might go unchecked. Obviously other races would be involved in fighting this threat but Chaos has the unquie advantage of attacked from all fronts similarly to the Orks. So in my eyes since teamwork and prejudice are the only weapons effective against chaos in the last stages... i think the imperium would become infested in no time.

 Anfauglir wrote:

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

1) As I said, the Tyranids and Necrons are coming close to coming out on top. Either one will annihilate the Tau any century now...

No, they're not. Too many other things going on in the galaxy. No one faction will ever be in a strong enough position to fully and finally wipe out any other faction - let alone all the other factions. You seem to be fixated on seeing GW's setting as being illogically biased towards those two factions in a way that I find truly puzzling...

2) The other logical extent of that fact is that the deadlock won't last forever.

Yes, it will. If it doesn't then it stops working as the setting for GW's futuristic warhamming hobby. Simple. As. That.

3) No amount of Tau expansion will save them from getting wiped out by the 'Nids or the 'Crons anyways.

Seeing as it already has; yes, it will. Tau are a playable army and therefore a major galactic faction. No one's getting "wiped out" short of a massive re-write and retcon of the setting, OR a seriously substantial progression in the timeline. I wouldn't hold your breath for either (anytime soon, at the very least, anyway). They have already survived the most precarious baby steps of establishing themselves. If anyone was going to wipe them out, it would have been the Orks, or the Eldar, or Hive Fleet Behemoth way back when they were dipping their naive little toes out into the big bad galaxy. Did that happen? Nope, they weathered each and every threat put in front of them and have grown stronger regardless. By the the time most of the rest of the galaxy even knew they were there, they were already more than powerful enough to cope with any measure of extermination that could be spared and sent their way. If the Tyranids and Necrons are so all-powerful and the Tau so weak as you claim, then what you say as being oh so evidently just peeping over the horizon... will have already happened.

So, in summary, there is nothing about that situation that is going to change. Ever. The Tau's relationship to the galaxy is one of positive correlation, it's as simple as that. Unending stalemate for all involved. I really don't know how many times and in how many different ways I can explain it to you: unending, as in, forever. Fin. End.

1) Tyranids and Necrons are coming close to coming out on top. Only a tiny fraction of those factions has awakened/arrived yet, and they're already major threats.
2) If you're going to keep throwing in the "GW/BL writing style" point, then this argument is gonna go on forever, because I do not acknowledge the relevance of that point. GW is gonna keep us in M41 anyways, so if we deem that argument relevant, nothing anyone else has posted on this thread has any meaning whatsoever.

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

1) Tyranids and Necrons are coming close to coming out on top. Only a tiny fraction of those factions has awakened/arrived yet, and they're already major threats.
2) If you're going to keep throwing in the "GW/BL writing style" point, then this argument is gonna go on forever, because I do not acknowledge the relevance of that point. GW is gonna keep us in M41 anyways, so if we deem that argument relevant, nothing anyone else has posted on this thread has any meaning whatsoever.

Indeed, the Necrons have a slumbering mega-tech empire. It's not certain how well it will have survived the aeons, but it could be monstrously powerful. The Imperium is powerful because of its size. A Necron empire of similar size would be overpowering.

The Tyranid fleets that have arrived thus far are now officially confirmed as the merest fraction of the oncoming swarm, and what's here already has pressed the Imperium hard.

Either of these two forces is clearly more than capable of cleansing the entire galaxy of all life. Even if they go into all out war with one another, is that really going to be any better for the bystanders? Being caught in the crossfire won't be pleasant.

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

1) Tyranids and Necrons are coming close to coming out on top. Only a tiny fraction of those factions has awakened/arrived yet, and they're already major threats.
2) If you're going to keep throwing in the "GW/BL writing style" point, then this argument is gonna go on forever, because I do not acknowledge the relevance of that point. GW is gonna keep us in M41 anyways, so if we deem that argument relevant, nothing anyone else has posted on this thread has any meaning whatsoever.

1) And as long as they keep popping up piecemeal, they will be fought and resisted by the rest of the galaxy, like they always have and always will be. You can repeat your biased conjecture as many times as you like; it won't come any closer to being anything other than just that; biased conjecture. 40K as a game system will not work if there's only room for two factions to have any chance of being the ultimate victors.

Let me throw some of my own out there, to help demonstrate.

- Orks are coming close to coming out on top. Only a tiny fraction of their numbers have achieved a cohesive waaagh!, and they still waste time fighting in small bands among themselves, both within the Milky Way and without - and they're already a major threat. In a century or two, many, many more will arrive and a super strong-willed leader will emerge and unit enough of them to finally waaagh! across the entire galaxy, sweeping away all others as before a great green tide. Ahhhh haahahahaha hah ha ha ha ha

See? That was easy.

2) I find it more than telling that in order for your point to have any chance of standing, you're having to transform the 40K setting into something it's not.

Doombread is right because Necrons and Tyranids can just "re-spawn" so that makes your Ork idea useless.
In addition your basing your argument on games workshop not ending it but this is a fluff topic so the is no Matt ward controlling everything
and deciding the fate of the universe. SO to you Doombread good job and i agree, Necrons will win

 Anfauglir wrote:

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

1) Tyranids and Necrons are coming close to coming out on top. Only a tiny fraction of those factions has awakened/arrived yet, and they're already major threats.
2) If you're going to keep throwing in the "GW/BL writing style" point, then this argument is gonna go on forever, because I do not acknowledge the relevance of that point. GW is gonna keep us in M41 anyways, so if we deem that argument relevant, nothing anyone else has posted on this thread has any meaning whatsoever.

1) And as long as they keep popping up piecemeal, they will be fought and resisted by the rest of the galaxy, like they always have and always will be. You can repeat your biased conjecture as many times as you like; it won't come any closer to being anything other than just that; biased conjecture. 40K as a game system will not work if there's only room for two factions to have any chance of being the ultimate victors.

Let me throw some of my own out there, to help demonstrate.

- Orks are coming close to coming out on top. Only a tiny fraction of their numbers have achieved a cohesive waaagh!, and they still waste time fighting in small bands among themselves, both within the Milky Way and without - and they're already a major threat. In a century or two, many, many more will arrive and a super strong-willed leader will emerge and unit enough of them to finally waaagh! across the entire galaxy, sweeping away all others as before a great green tide. Ahhhh haahahahaha hah ha ha ha ha

See? That was easy.

2) I find it more than telling that in order for your point to have any chance of standing, you're having to transform the 40K setting into something it's not.

1) Necrons and Tyranids aren't popping up piecemeal, exactly- they are rapidly growing in number.
2) We're all turning the 40k setting into something it's not on this thread. It's about a time period that, if we acknowledge the validity of your points, does not even exist in the 40k world.
3) Your Ork victory idea doesn't work because Orks are not coming in from other galaxies as far as we know, and they are not united, nor do they have any hope of becoming united.

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

3) Your Ork victory idea doesn't work because Orks are not coming in from other galaxies as far as we know, and they are not united, nor do they have any hope of becoming united.

Wrong, the Ork empire was in existence before the Eldar fall they have traveled much further than the galaxy. Since the inception of the Imperium of man a single drone has been moving in one direction away from the imperium giving them an idea of how far alien races may lie. for 30,000 years it has been traveling and every few days it continues to send blips of information to the Imperium and nearly every bit of it is still; to their horror orks.

that is taken directly out of our last 2 codexes. Orks do operate on "the bigger the stakes, the bigger the bigger the challenge" this means necrons or nids can't wipe life... period without running into a stalemate of orks. It might work for awhile but once enough orks learn to respect the power of Nids or Cron BOOM you're done taking over the galaxy. Once the orks respect you they want your stuff and to kill you to show they can it isn't defensive at that point it's aggressive. And nothing galvanizes orks more than shows of strength. it is why tremendous effort is needed on any front to beat orks the most anyone can do is really displace them and hope they regroup elsewhere. When the catchphrase of 40k is "in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium, there is only war." this is a tribute to the struggle the "imperium" or in truth ANY empire faces, topple one giant and others will rise during your strength. Battles may be won but no side is ever removed from the fight.

Orks are the equivalent of fighting the rain, it won't do anything to their morale or numbers they will constantly pour down and eventually slow you down or even halt your advance. Actually strong waaaghs will turn into turning the tides, but if you expect to just go planet to planet exploding everything and going unchecked as nids, chaos, cron or orks you are sadly mistaken just because 2,000 years pass doesn't mean the galaxy will not be wracked by war and these "infamous super tyrants" will still be enemy #1 the moment they appear. You are story devises of an antagonist that Orks might say

"oy! Humies, tell ya wut you give us sum of dem tanks and we might be willing ta fight dem buggies fer ya if ya throw in dat factory of yours too."

Which they would replied "Absolutely not greenskin it would be agai-"

The ork would cut him off "Oh, I see 'ow you wants it den fine, fine but don't come crying when your soft lads are chewed up and they take ur fort anywayz"

the commissar "... perhaps we should strike terms then..."

"aye lets! First fing i want is one of dem loud tanks of yours!..."

Then the tyranid find a joint alliance of mercenary freebooterz helping the defenses of a ravaged imperial guard regiment. it's just how it goes you are the dark lord Sauron and you lose once the galaxy sets aside it's differences for a minor time to face the enemy please see the example of the blood angels and necron allying against the nids. In 2,000 years perhaps the eldar are erradicated or the tau are snuffed out or something to fit fluff of a small empire being swallowed but no one power is going be reigning supreme anytime in the next 40,000 years either...

I actually think that iff all the Tyranids turned up, even the IoM would consider allying with all of the races in the Galaxy to exterminate the Nids. I can imagine it working because:

-IoM has the space/vehicular combat superpower (Emp Class warship/titan & Battle Barges) and can remove entire planets from the equation in on go. and bodies. lots of bodies
-Eldar/DE have enough psykers/fighters respectivley to defend a section of Galaxy on thier own
-Necrons have the technology to shatter The Outsider (assuming the The Outsider is the HM for the purposes of this post.) and have some of the best defenses in the galaxy. Also World Engines.
-Tau have enough vehicles/battlesuits (aka mobile firepower) to make H&R attacks all over the galaxy
-Orks can keep the Nids in a stalemate meat grinder almost indefinately, buying time for larger weapons to be brought to bear.

If allied, these pros would be more than enough to kill off most if not all of the Nids

 necronuser wrote:
Doombread is right because Necrons and Tyranids can just "re-spawn" so that makes your Ork idea useless.

First of all, no. Orks beat any other faction in numbers. Period.

Lexicanum wrote:the Orkoid race is also the most successful species in the whole galaxy, spread throughout the galaxy and outnumbering possibly every other race. However, due to this aggressive and warlike nature, the massive race is split into hundreds of tiny empires, warring as much between themselves as against other races. In the purely theoretical event all the Orks were to unite, they would undoubtedly crush all opposition.

And;

Lexicanum wrote:Adult Orks are constantly releasing spores which lie in the ground, often for years, waiting to develop into Orks or Gretchin. Thus a world invaded by Orks will be troubled by them for hundreds of years to come, even if the original assault is beaten off.

Therefore your "re-spawn" point is invalid, as Orks have always, and will always have, a way to regenerate and increase their numbers in a far superior way to that of Necrons;

Lexicanum wrote:All of their numbers possess sophisticated auto-repair systems throughout their exo-skeletal systems that can repair even the most crippling of damages. While this can keep them functioning constantly, should there be irreparable damage sustained, the Necron "phases out". Both their minds and their bodies are teleported to the nearest tomb complex where they either remain in storage until repairs are made or a new body is forged. This act does, however, come at a cost as each act of transferrence leads to a decay in the Necron's engrams. As such, those Necrons that have "died" and phased out hundreds of times suffer the most for they become little more than automatons who have lost the memory of the creature that they used to be in life.

Ergo: Necrons have a shelf life. There are a finite number of them and are always in decline. Orks (or more specifically their spores) don't have one. Their number is potentially infinite, unending, and forever growing/strengthening.

However, having said all that - you are in fact correct in one regard, and that's how my Ork example stands in relation to my original and ongoing argument in the topic - it's "useless", as you said. That's why I put it there in order to illustrate the futility of arguing one faction will eventually dominate all the others. It's moot to say "yeah, well, the Orks are actually the most powerful and can take over the galaxy... (and here's the important part) if only they all stopped farting around and joined together!" Yes, it's useless - because that's never going to happen. They're fighting too many enemies on too many different fronts. Galaxy-wide unending stalement between all factions... All. Factions.

In addition your basing your argument on games workshop not ending it but this is a fluff topic so the is no Matt ward controlling everything
and deciding the fate of the universe. SO to you Doombread good job and i agree, Necrons will win

So, you're argument is that the "fluff" isn't one and the same as GW's overarching setting for a game system (controlled as you say by Matt Ward)... but is instead a different universe with, well, Necron fans controlling everything, I suppose...

Yeah... sorry, but no. Yes, this is a fluff topic. The fluff is the unending stalemate set forth by GW. End of story. I'm basing my argument on what the fluff is, and will continue to be... not what my personal fandom or bias hopes it will become. To speculate and fantasise in a theoretical topic is one thing, but to start stating conjecture as undeniable fact in regards to some of the setting's more unmovable constructs, is another entirely.

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

1) Necrons and Tyranids aren't popping up piecemeal.

Yes, they are. Read up on Tyranid Hive Fleets and the Tyrannic Wars. Next, take a look at this;

Lexicanum wrote:For sixty million years the Necrons remained in their deathless slumber in their tombs in what became known as the Great Sleep. As time passed, many Tomb Worlds fell prey to malfunction or ill-fortune. Some were destroyed by marauding Eldar. These failures destroyed millions, if not billions of dormant Necrons. But when the Tomb Worlds did begin to rewaken, it was not simultaneously. Some awoke to see the Great Crusade, others during the Age of Apostasy. Most however awoke during the later years of M41, but even still billions of Necrons lay dormant.

You know, for such an evident Tyranid and Necron enthusiast discussing fluff... you seem to have some pretty substantial gaps in your knowledge of the fluff itself... strange

3) Your Ork victory idea doesn't work because Orks are not coming in from other galaxies as far as we know, and they are not united, nor do they have any hope of becoming united.

First: incorrect. Orks are known to exist beyond the boundaries of the Milky Way. Furthermore, I'm playing by your rules in my example, where I can twist and mould the fundamentals of the setting to fit my bias. Therefore I can proclaim just as much as you can about who is coming out on top - and I say that there are trillions upon trillions of Orks just over the horizon, inbound for the galaxy, and when they get here, there's a uber-mega-big-boss who will unite all the Orks together and it's over for everybody else. See? See how easy that was? Get it yet?

And just in case it's still unclear - second; correct. I know my victory idea doesn't work, I know that they are not united and never will be. That was the whole point, I was highlighting how moot it is claim one faction will have ultimate superiority provided element X is in place, when the very nature, the very essence of the setting is to deny element X from ever being in place. It's yourself who seems to be unable to grast that most simplest of concepts, and so this merry-go-round continues to spin in happy, ignorant bliss...

 Anfauglir wrote:


First of all, no. Orks beat any other faction in numbers. Period.

Oh I don't know, the Tyranid section in the new rulebook kind of implies that the Tyranids may well outnumber everything else combined. It's not even contradictory to existing fluff either; Orks are described as the most populus race in the galaxy and the Tyranids aren't technically in the galaxy yet (not in great numbers, anyway), so both statements can be true.

Anyway, all this talk of size and numbers is being conducted without thought for the logistics of fighting a galactic war. Even if the Orks somehow managed to pool together, how on earth are they going to manage a galactic war? The Imperium can't do it properly, and the Eldar/Necrons were only any good at it because of extremely fast communication and travel. To the best of my knowledge, there is no Ork webway and Ork travel is mostly fairly haphazard.

Don't get me wrong, the Orks are a fearsome foe and probably the hardest of the indigenous races to exterminate (no-one has been able to do it so far, not the C'tan, not the Necrons, not the Enslavers, not the Eldar, not the humans), but I don't put much stock in them ever actually winning. Of all the races, they are most likely to survive the Necron/Tyranid apocalypse though, and isn't being around tomorrow for another good fight really what winning is to an Ork?

 Anfauglir wrote:

 necronuser wrote:
Doombread is right because Necrons and Tyranids can just "re-spawn" so that makes your Ork idea useless.

First of all, no. Orks beat any other faction in numbers. Period.

Lexicanum wrote:the Orkoid race is also the most successful species in the whole galaxy, spread throughout the galaxy and outnumbering possibly every other race. However, due to this aggressive and warlike nature, the massive race is split into hundreds of tiny empires, warring as much between themselves as against other races. In the purely theoretical event all the Orks were to unite, they would undoubtedly crush all opposition.

And;

Lexicanum wrote:Adult Orks are constantly releasing spores which lie in the ground, often for years, waiting to develop into Orks or Gretchin. Thus a world invaded by Orks will be troubled by them for hundreds of years to come, even if the original assault is beaten off.

Therefore your "re-spawn" point is invalid, as Orks have always, and will always have, a way to regenerate and increase their numbers in a far superior way to that of Necrons;

Lexicanum wrote:All of their numbers possess sophisticated auto-repair systems throughout their exo-skeletal systems that can repair even the most crippling of damages. While this can keep them functioning constantly, should there be irreparable damage sustained, the Necron "phases out". Both their minds and their bodies are teleported to the nearest tomb complex where they either remain in storage until repairs are made or a new body is forged. This act does, however, come at a cost as each act of transferrence leads to a decay in the Necron's engrams. As such, those Necrons that have "died" and phased out hundreds of times suffer the most for they become little more than automatons who have lost the memory of the creature that they used to be in life.

Ergo: Necrons have a shelf life. There are a finite number of them and are always in decline. Orks (or more specifically their spores) don't have one. Their number is potentially infinite, unending, and forever growing/strengthening.

However, having said all that - you are in fact correct in one regard, and that's how my Ork example stands in relation to my original and ongoing argument in the topic - it's "useless", as you said. That's why I put it there in order to illustrate the futility of arguing one faction will eventually dominate all the others. It's moot to say "yeah, well, the Orks are actually the most powerful and can take over the galaxy... (and here's the important part) if only they all stopped farting around and joined together!" Yes, it's useless - because that's never going to happen. They're fighting too many enemies on too many different fronts. Galaxy-wide unending stalement between all factions... All. Factions.

In addition your basing your argument on games workshop not ending it but this is a fluff topic so the is no Matt ward controlling everything
and deciding the fate of the universe. SO to you Doombread good job and i agree, Necrons will win

So, you're argument is that the "fluff" isn't one and the same as GW's overarching setting for a game system (controlled as you say by Matt Ward)... but is instead a different universe with, well, Necron fans controlling everything, I suppose...

Yeah... sorry, but no. Yes, this is a fluff topic. The fluff is the unending stalemate set forth by GW. End of story. I'm basing my argument on what the fluff is, and will continue to be... not what my personal fandom or bias hopes it will become. To speculate and fantasise in a theoretical topic is one thing, but to start stating conjecture as undeniable fact in regards to some of the setting's more unmovable constructs, is another entirely.

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

1) Necrons and Tyranids aren't popping up piecemeal.

Yes, they are. Read up on Tyranid Hive Fleets and the Tyrannic Wars. Next, take a look at this;

Lexicanum wrote:For sixty million years the Necrons remained in their deathless slumber in their tombs in what became known as the Great Sleep. As time passed, many Tomb Worlds fell prey to malfunction or ill-fortune. Some were destroyed by marauding Eldar. These failures destroyed millions, if not billions of dormant Necrons. But when the Tomb Worlds did begin to rewaken, it was not simultaneously. Some awoke to see the Great Crusade, others during the Age of Apostasy. Most however awoke during the later years of M41, but even still billions of Necrons lay dormant.

You know, for such an evident Tyranid and Necron enthusiast discussing fluff... you seem to have some pretty substantial gaps in your knowledge of the fluff itself... strange

3) Your Ork victory idea doesn't work because Orks are not coming in from other galaxies as far as we know, and they are not united, nor do they have any hope of becoming united.

First: incorrect. Orks are known to exist beyond the boundaries of the Milky Way. Furthermore, I'm playing by your rules in my example, where I can twist and mould the fundamentals of the setting to fit my bias. Therefore I can proclaim just as much as you can about who is coming out on top - and I say that there are trillions upon trillions of Orks just over the horizon, inbound for the galaxy, and when they get here, there's a uber-mega-big-boss who will unite all the Orks together and it's over for everybody else. See? See how easy that was? Get it yet?

And just in case it's still unclear - second; correct. I know my victory idea doesn't work, I know that they are not united and never will be. That was the whole point, I was highlighting how moot it is claim one faction will have ultimate superiority provided element X is in place, when the very nature, the very essence of the setting is to deny element X from ever being in place. It's yourself who seems to be unable to grast that most simplest of concepts, and so this merry-go-round continues to spin in happy, ignorant bliss...

Whether the Necrons are popping up piecemeal is irrelevant- They are still growing in number, and can eventually overpower most, if not all, other factions. Also, I am not a Tyranid or Necron enthusiast. I just think those factions will eventually wipe out all others. And, though your Ork ideas are irrelevant, as I have stated ad nauseam, you are failing to disprove my Necron and Tyranid ideas. Plus, your statement of Necron numbers being always in decline is just plain wrong. In addition, my point about the 43rd millenium being immune to the fluff writing style point remains solid. And, your element X never being in place idea is irrelevant, as official fluff has declared that my X elements are in place. Also, really? ad hominem attacks?

The tau improve there technology even more and bring new races into there empire and as they will be pritty much unhindered by chaos as there just a blip on the warp become the most powerful faction by systematically destroying or absorbing other factions into there fold.The Orks numbers continue to increase steadily and expand the systems they control and conquer armagedon and with the amount of industry they have access two become even more unstoppable

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

Whether the Necrons are popping up piecemeal is irrelevant- They are still growing in number,

Oh, okay, so now it's irrelevant... after several posts of trying to argue otherwise. Oooookay. (Nice goal post shifting ) Where do you get their "growth" from, pray tell? As far as I'm aware, they are an old race confined to robotic bodies buried deep on a bunch of scattered tomb worlds. There aren't no Necro-trees about, you know? There're not ripening next to the cabbage-patch babies. They're all already here. Their former numbers, glory and empire a broken, scattered shell of what it was, their current number being reduced in functionality with each and every conflict.

and can eventually overpower most, if not all, other factions. Also, I am not a Tyranid or Necron enthusiast. I just think those factions will eventually wipe out all others.

Nope. Sorry It's stalemate all around, I'm afraid.

And, though your Ork ideas are irrelevant, as I have stated ad nauseam,

I think this is the second time, but go on...

you are failing to disprove my Necron and Tyranid ideas.

That's mostly because A) your recent addition of the goal post shifting to your arsenal and B) your simple inability to accept the difference between biased conjecture and established facts. Like the following;

Plus, your statement of Necron numbers being always in decline is just plain wrong.

Not only am I correct, but I had the good grace to provide you with the piece of fluff that flat out proves my point - yet you still deny to accept it (or, shift goal posts, as indicated). Face it, the Necron empire and their galactic position/influence is a shadow of what it once was. What remains of their number has awoken scattered and piecemeal across a galaxy now overrun with races that are more than capable of facing their threat, and will continue to resist them as they always have done. They are deadlocked in stalemate, just like everybody else.

In addition, my point about the 43rd millenium being immune to the fluff writing style point remains solid.

Only as solid as my observation that in order for your argument to have any legs, you're having to transform the very fundamentals of what the setting is currently (and always has been) about.

And, your element X never being in place idea is irrelevant, as official fluff has declared that my X elements are in place.

*sigh* I see, more of the "your fanfluff is irrelevant and wrong - my fanfluff is right, so there!" style arguments. These are becoming as tedious as they are childish. Please, prey tell where, exactly, in official fluff does it state that either 'Nids or 'Crons are more powerful than all other factions, and - important part - will therefore eventually come out on top (bonus point if you can find one outside of the obligatory "dis army is da bestest army, if you play dis army, you will bash all other armies" statement that is included in each factions codex - good luck ). Please. Go on. I'll wait.

Also, really? ad hominem attacks?

Um, really? Where?

Doombread, I must say your arguments are pretty thin compared to the ideas brought forth by your opposition. I am all for loving your various factions. My original army was necrons, before they even had a codex. I am still a fan of the older edition fluff but sadly the Necron are a bastardized version of thecno mummies now in my eyes. They don't just have the ability to build endlessly that would just make them tools. While the Necron are more or less only interested in tools of conquest this doesn't mean they "Simply build" they still are somewhat sentient otherwise they would simply be the Men of Iron Fluff offered in previous 40k fluff within the Imperium. My next army was orks, and i loved the ways they are made. in my personal opinion even comparing it to the Nids the orks just have been rooted in 40k in such a way... not nothing is mean to conquer them. They are defeatable but never an enslaved race or one fleeing from gods of chaos.

The Nids are honestly generic to me, stale and almost cliche for a sci-fi series. I love em the models and fluff are staples to the universe but they do not strike the sheer terror so many seem to doom say about all the time. i am not sure if this is a predisposition of Evil armies but they just MUST FEEL THEY ARE THE END OF US ALL. Look, I can really like that idea but it just wouldn't happen. Fluff incorporated or not the best we would see in a 2,000 year gap is perhaps the removal of certain factions and the emergence of others. the 40k universe is about war that never ends it rages on all sides in every area, unremitting and terrible wars that last decades just to see a shift in supply lines!

I think your theory is flawed in the fact that universal evils are dealt with and then the universe continues old business it is the basic formula of the game and story. they shall have victories but they aren't remember for those, they are remembered for their defeats. Same with the orks, same with the nids, and with Cron. No one faction will eradicate all other factions even though that is the dream...I honestly think you will be happier not arguing such trival matter but your time is your own to spend as you wish. I will just enjoy my orks and play the story in my head the way it should unfold with orks organizing the Universe's fanciest tea party!!!!

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
The Nids are honestly generic to me, stale and almost cliche for a sci-fi series. I love em the models and fluff are staples to the universe but they do not strike the sheer terror so many seem to doom say about all the time

Can you point to something in 40k, or indeed any setting, that isn't "cliche", "generic" or at the very least resembles something someone else has done first?

You guys are so silly.

Orks would get their asses kicked by the Tyranids and Necrons. They're the idiot punching bags of the Galaxy, with Tyranids coming in second place for that title. Orks never win any significant battles. Ever.

 Anfauglir wrote:

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

Whether the Necrons are popping up piecemeal is irrelevant- They are still growing in number,

Oh, okay, so now it's irrelevant... after several posts of trying to argue otherwise. Oooookay. (Nice goal post shifting ) Where do you get their "growth" from, pray tell? As far as I'm aware, they are an old race confined to robotic bodies buried deep on a bunch of scattered tomb worlds. There aren't no Necro-trees about, you know? There're not ripening next to the cabbage-patch babies. They're all already here. Their former numbers, glory and empire a broken, scattered shell of what it was, their current number being reduced in functionality with each and every conflict.

and can eventually overpower most, if not all, other factions. Also, I am not a Tyranid or Necron enthusiast. I just think those factions will eventually wipe out all others.

Nope. Sorry It's stalemate all around, I'm afraid.

And, though your Ork ideas are irrelevant, as I have stated ad nauseam,

I think this is the second time, but go on...

you are failing to disprove my Necron and Tyranid ideas.

That's mostly because A) your recent addition of the goal post shifting to your arsenal and B) your simple inability to accept the difference between biased conjecture and established facts. Like the following;

Plus, your statement of Necron numbers being always in decline is just plain wrong.

Not only am I correct, but I had the good grace to provide you with the piece of fluff that flat out proves my point - yet you still deny to accept it (or, shift goal posts, as indicated). Face it, the Necron empire and their galactic position/influence is a shadow of what it once was. What remains of their number has awoken scattered and piecemeal across a galaxy now overrun with races that are more than capable of facing their threat, and will continue to resist them as they always have done. They are deadlocked in stalemate, just like everybody else.

In addition, my point about the 43rd millenium being immune to the fluff writing style point remains solid.

Only as solid as my observation that in order for your argument to have any legs, you're having to transform the very fundamentals of what the setting is currently (and always has been) about.

And, your element X never being in place idea is irrelevant, as official fluff has declared that my X elements are in place.

*sigh* I see, more of the "your fanfluff is irrelevant and wrong - my fanfluff is right, so there!" style arguments. These are becoming as tedious as they are childish. Please, prey tell where, exactly, in official fluff does it state that either 'Nids or 'Crons are more powerful than all other factions, and - important part - will therefore eventually come out on top (bonus point if you can find one outside of the obligatory "dis army is da bestest army, if you play dis army, you will bash all other armies" statement that is included in each factions codex - good luck ). Please. Go on. I'll wait.

Also, really? ad hominem attacks?

Um, really? Where?

1. I believe I can answer most of your attacks with a dash of Quotehammer:

6th ed. Rulebook wrote: Victory against this unforgiving and unstoppable force (The Necrons) will require the lesser races to stand united, and time for them to do so is swiftly running out. With every world the Necrons reconquer, the ancient empire comes ever closer to rebirth.

There it is. Official fluff confirming my points.
2. I was post-shifting because I hadn't understood what you meant by popping up piecemeal.
3. You said that I was unable to grasp the simplest of concepts, and that I was spinning around on a merry-go-round of ignorance. You kinda may as well have said "I am right because I'm better than you."

KingGhidorah wrote:

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
The Nids are honestly generic to me, stale and almost cliche for a sci-fi series. I love em the models and fluff are staples to the universe but they do not strike the sheer terror so many seem to doom say about all the time

Can you point to something in 40k, or indeed any setting, that isn't "cliche", "generic" or at the very least resembles something someone else has done first?

Not sure why i honestly have to, as it is simply an opinion that the nids resemble alien + godzilla and require no references as i am well aware that all intellectual material has been repeated in the various sci-fi and story writing. the point here isn't to insult it's to just stating that they seem to harken to that too much for my personal liking.

BlaxicanX wrote:You guys are so silly.

Orks would get their asses kicked by the Tyranids and Necrons. They're the idiot punching bags of the Galaxy, with Tyranids coming in second place for that title. Orks never win any significant battles. Ever.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111025080641/warhammer40k/images/thumb/a/a9/WAAAGH%21Garaghak.jpg/300px-WAAAGH%21Garaghak.jpg

This is a demonstration of how Waaagh's work please feel free to read.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Ork_Waaaghs!#.UFjhSVGD-uI

This list represents either ongoing or victorious in various sectors. Vital battles such as the one for armageddon, Ryza and ultramar hang in the mercy of orkish war lusts. If it were not for other enemies to please us or a joint operation of resistance these curical areas of ammunition, warp proximity or one strongest fort of the adeptus astartes. To say we never win significant victories I would challenge you to read the Waaagh of Dakka, or Waaagh Tuska or any of the references on this site. You think we don't win cruical battles but I think you should realize the orks are the most unremitting and brutal of the enemies of the IOM we may not be the most devastating to the imperium but we are the most constant struggle and even after 10,000 years of standing against the orks the Imperium is lucky to hold it's own worlds in most sectors from orkish waaaghs. Whoever thinks they shall be the undoing of the IOM shall inherit it's problems namely us.



1. I believe I can answer most of your attacks with a dash of Quotehammer:

Victory against this unforgiving and unstoppable force (The Necrons) will require the lesser races to stand united, and time for them to do so is swiftly running out. With every world the Necrons reconquer, the ancient empire comes ever closer to rebirth.

DOOMBREAD wrote:
1. I believe I can answer most of your attacks with a dash of Quotehammer:

6th ed. Rulebook wrote: Victory against this unforgiving and unstoppable force (The Necrons) will require the lesser races to stand united, and time for them to do so is swiftly running out. With every world the Necrons reconquer, the ancient empire comes ever closer to rebirth.

There it is. Official fluff confirming my points.

Aww, sorry man, missed out on that all important bonus point that was on offer. I'm afraid that is a faction-specific piece of fluff written in the Necron section of the rulebook, and therefore falls under the "dis army is da bestest army, if you play dis army you will bash all ova armies" category, where you will find similar entries for each of the other factions, therefore invalidating it. So sorry.

2. I was post-shifting because I hadn't understood what you meant by popping up piecemeal.

Really? I didn't think there were any other way for it to be understood. Oh well, fair enough I suppose. At least you're now more informed about the Necron fluff.

3. You said that I was unable to grasp the simplest of concepts, and that I was spinning around on a merry-go-round of ignorance. You kinda may as well have said "I am right because I'm better than you."

Yes, I said that it "seems that you are unable to grasp this most simplest of concepts". A perfectly valid and appropriate evaluation of your contribution to this discussion. You have tried to assert things which aren't true, which I have shot down, against which your only answer is to regurgitate the same "no I'm right and your wrong" response. This has continued for many posts, leading to my merry-go-round analogy - again, a perfectly valid, accurate assessment because your refusal to back down when you've been proven wrong is a characteristically ignorant behaviour, as is not knowing some basics in the fluff about which you are debating. Conclusion? My statements are born of observation applied to message board etiquette only. I have not sought to attack your own person (I have neither the knowledge nor the desire to do so), and, more importantly in the context of an ad hominem, I have not sought to do so as a way to attack your argument. That I have managed just fine using the conventional manner.

You are too tense.

To make you laugh a little, here's some advice from a noob : Me.


Tyranids :
Continue their advance. I honestly don't see them "evolving" (more than adaptation with always the same pieces, like lego). And the seem to laked so many essentials elements when they arrived i wonder if even norn-queen are not an "adaptation" in our galaxy. Myself, i see the "grande armée" of tyranids like more or less a giant mass of not-so organized proteins, a cloud of plancton-like things, maybe.
In 2000 years, they have time, probably, to attack the galaxy from more or less all fronts, consuming more worlds.

Necrons :
More of them awake, waging intra-necronic wars ravaging entire sectors and harvesting other races like, say, we actually do on our XXI century Earth.
I don't see them exterminating all life already because, as i said, they have a bigger threat to combat : Themselves.

Dark Eldars :
Do theses guy ever change ? Are general attacks from Tyranids and Necrons enough to make them help others races because, you know, they need victims if they want to survive the appetite of their glutton god (Slaneesh ?).

Eldars :
Will panic, probably. Necrons and Tyranids devouring their exodites and maiden worlds and attacking their worldcrafts more and more is not good news for them. And they probably can't quit Milky Way (if they can, why they and their Dark cousins have not already done it ? Particularly the Darks, by the way).

Orks :
Massive invasion from Tyranids probably create bigger and bigger Waaaaghs, with bigger orks (maybe their own idea of Space Marines ?).
At 2000 years from "there", the grim future will probably be green.

Tau :
Mmh... A race evolving it's technology particularly fast fighting for it's survival against too galaxy-wide menaces wanting to annihilate them ?
Okay, who think they will put Star Trek and Star War to shame in 2000 years ?
If they have not been devoured, that's it (who now) ?

Imperium :
The Imperium look static, for me.
But if the galaxy is set aflame, i can see a lot of sector building their independant empire, with probably a lot of them restarting technological progress, maybe even opening friendly relations with xenos neighbors : In 2000 years, without Imperial administration to kill "traitors" around, you have the time to learn to like the guys who fight at your side against rampaging Orks, Tyranids and whatnot.

Others ?

Well, i read somewhere the "new cannon" is the imperial systems are far from each other, with the warps as railroads. Meaning can exist a lot of things between these systems, maybe entire and relatively powerful space empires (The most logical size for the Federation from Star Trek is 250 L.Y. - Forgot the 2500 theory : It's stupid).

With the gigantic turmoil and galactic panic created by the Necrons, the Tyranid, then the Orks, i can see a lot of these unknown civilization trying to contact each others, and be helped in that by Eldars trying to create as much of armed empire as they can (putting themselves as benevolent godlike helpers, of course, and it will not be totally wrong in fact).

 Anfauglir wrote:

DOOMBREAD wrote:
1. I believe I can answer most of your attacks with a dash of Quotehammer:

6th ed. Rulebook wrote: Victory against this unforgiving and unstoppable force (The Necrons) will require the lesser races to stand united, and time for them to do so is swiftly running out. With every world the Necrons reconquer, the ancient empire comes ever closer to rebirth.

There it is. Official fluff confirming my points.

Aww, sorry man, missed out on that all important bonus point that was on offer. I'm afraid that is a faction-specific piece of fluff written in the Necron section of the rulebook, and therefore falls under the "dis army is da bestest army, if you play dis army you will bash all ova armies" category, where you will find similar entries for each of the other factions, therefore invalidating it. So sorry.

2. I was post-shifting because I hadn't understood what you meant by popping up piecemeal.

Really? I didn't think there were any other way for it to be understood. Oh well, fair enough I suppose. At least you're now more informed about the Necron fluff.

3. You said that I was unable to grasp the simplest of concepts, and that I was spinning around on a merry-go-round of ignorance. You kinda may as well have said "I am right because I'm better than you."

Yes, I said that it "seems that you are unable to grasp this most simplest of concepts". A perfectly valid and appropriate evaluation of your contribution to this discussion. You have tried to assert things which aren't true, which I have shot down, against which your only answer is to regurgitate the same "no I'm right and your wrong" response. This has continued for many posts, leading to my merry-go-round analogy - again, a perfectly valid, accurate assessment because your refusal to back down when you've been proven wrong is a characteristically ignorant behaviour, as is not knowing some basics in the fluff about which you are debating. Conclusion? My statements are born of observation applied to message board etiquette only. I have not sought to attack your own person (I have neither the knowledge nor the desire to do so), and, more importantly in the context of an ad hominem, I have not sought to do so as a way to attack your argument. That I have managed just fine using the conventional manner.

1. Everything in the passages for individual factions is, in fact, official canon. You won't find anything contradicting canon in the army entries.
2. Let's say two people are debating, and one person says "I'm right because I'm smarter than you." The other person accuses him of the use of ad hominem attacks. He responds "But I am smarter than you."
That's what you just did.
Also, just because I don't agree with your points doesn't mean I can't understand them.

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

 Anfauglir wrote:

DOOMBREAD wrote:
1. I believe I can answer most of your attacks with a dash of Quotehammer:

6th ed. Rulebook wrote: Victory against this unforgiving and unstoppable force (The Necrons) will require the lesser races to stand united, and time for them to do so is swiftly running out. With every world the Necrons reconquer, the ancient empire comes ever closer to rebirth.

There it is. Official fluff confirming my points.

Aww, sorry man, missed out on that all important bonus point that was on offer. I'm afraid that is a faction-specific piece of fluff written in the Necron section of the rulebook, and therefore falls under the "dis army is da bestest army, if you play dis army you will bash all ova armies" category, where you will find similar entries for each of the other factions, therefore invalidating it. So sorry.

2. I was post-shifting because I hadn't understood what you meant by popping up piecemeal.

Really? I didn't think there were any other way for it to be understood. Oh well, fair enough I suppose. At least you're now more informed about the Necron fluff.

3. You said that I was unable to grasp the simplest of concepts, and that I was spinning around on a merry-go-round of ignorance. You kinda may as well have said "I am right because I'm better than you."

Yes, I said that it "seems that you are unable to grasp this most simplest of concepts". A perfectly valid and appropriate evaluation of your contribution to this discussion. You have tried to assert things which aren't true, which I have shot down, against which your only answer is to regurgitate the same "no I'm right and your wrong" response. This has continued for many posts, leading to my merry-go-round analogy - again, a perfectly valid, accurate assessment because your refusal to back down when you've been proven wrong is a characteristically ignorant behaviour, as is not knowing some basics in the fluff about which you are debating. Conclusion? My statements are born of observation applied to message board etiquette only. I have not sought to attack your own person (I have neither the knowledge nor the desire to do so), and, more importantly in the context of an ad hominem, I have not sought to do so as a way to attack your argument. That I have managed just fine using the conventional manner.

1. Everything in the passages for individual factions is, in fact, official canon. You won't find anything contradicting canon in the army entries.
2. Let's say two people are debating, and one person says "I'm right because I'm smarter than you." The other person accuses him of the use of ad hominem attacks. He responds "But I am smarter than you."
That's what you just did.

it's so hard to find someone who grasps the differences between promotional information and i dunno... proof. Can you name planets? wars or galactic stability campaigns like eye of terror, Armageddon or how about box sets or official codex fluff? Just because someone finds a few sentences stating something vague as "this army will likely take over the entire galaxy" is no different than the ork main slogan of our army which is on the back of our codex ... it is only a matter of time before the Orks unite once and for all and drown the stars in a torrent of mindless violence

Every bit of these descriptions are cannon, if space marines were not bound by the Codex Astartes to limit the number of participants to 1000 members per chapter which was a dispute after the results of the Horus Heresy. Only a few chapters break this paramount rule, the Black Templar and the Space Wolves to my knowledge. considering the process is only about a decade of augmentation within 100 years the universe could be surrounded by super humans capable of facing any threat. they reason they do not is the envitability of renegades.

The Tau do not wish to advance too rapidly for their education camps and alliances must be tentatively and meticulously governed otherwise the views of the greater good could be compromised to corruption

The nids do no choose their battles wisely they simply advance one planet after another confident in their armies being victorious, This has recently changed through the governance of special characters like the Swarmlord but ultimately Nids are so reviled by all factions that all newcomers will face them even Necrons! This ultimately means the Nids should move tactically to win but never have or will.

This list could go on and on EVERY faction is made to feel invincible..

Chaos is labeled as "The greatest threat" as it's main title of 40k on page 218 of the new rulebook. It's entry ends exactly like this

No planet is beyond their reach and their is no world that doesn't fear their coming."

By your own system of statements this now means it's cannon to say Necron's fear Chaos. Do you see how stupid this is going to get yet? Allow me to continue.

Orks pg. 201 "The green menace"

The Warboss known only as The Beast nearly took over the galaxy, and it can only be a matter of time before another apocalyptic greenskin rising takes place"

here we go again, another statement of promotional fluff stating that ... unlike even the Necrons that orks are just destine to take over the Universe. No one can stop them it's an apocalyptic event. See here is the difference i take this fluff witha grain of salt, they won't take it over and if they do it's cause GW wants to change the story but you are saying this promotion main rulebook fluff is what is cannon not the battle reports, not the storyline and not even the stories written in other player's codexes or minds.

Infact the concept you are clinging to this idea so adamantly rather than realize it's a fictional story that is suppose to be told by the... actual game, books or various other forms of intellectual property you assume that a mere 2 sentences not only entitles you to know what GW means is the ultimate destiny of the franchise (which has remained unchanged for 30 years plus now i might add...) or the fact that the IOM is still the most popular armies of the 40k franchise that somehow... the universe because of 2 sentences... is doomed.

Seriously man, I am done please stop posting less you write a thesis on this idea of yours and just remember the novelty of the post was suppose to be a mere prediction and accept that it's not widely believed it will be coming to pass.

Everyone but the Orks, Tyranids, and Necrons will be dead, then the Tyranids eat the orks and leave, followed by the Necrons as they start getting bored. The galaxy is left as a dead, lifeless husk, utterly silent, with nothing but barren worlds and Necron monuments left to attest to the former hellish conditions. Chaos will be long dead, deprived of any warp power as all suitable races die out. The Imperium will also be dead as it finishes crumbling under the ever increasing power of emerging xenos threats. The Eldar will be swept away by the tide of violence as the galaxy dies, crushed forever by the orks, tyranids, and necrons. The Tau are also swept away not long after the sun sets on the human hegemony, enjoying a brief golden age before a massive waaagh, hive fleet, or Necron dynasty destroys them. The Dark Eldar straggle on for a little before they either starve or the webway is breached and Commoragh gets razed. The minor races also all die, the Hrud will probably be among the last to succumb, but succumb they will. The Slaugth though, may just flee the Galaxy once they see the writing on the wall.

All this adds up to a silent galaxy, little more than a cosmic mausoleum, a wordless marker of a once violently vibrant section of space now devoid of even the most primitive forms of life. The eternal war will finally be over, as no one is left to fight it, everyone either having died or fled to greener pastures. This is the only way to bring peace and order to the galaxy, by ending all that is capable of war and chaos.

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

1. Everything in the passages for individual factions is, in fact, official canon. You won't find anything contradicting canon in the army entries.

Yeah, you pretty much will, as it goes. The fact that they're all official canon is why your supporting quote is invalidated. It's like trying to argue that your brand new iphone seven is the best in the room... while everybody else is too busy to listen to you because they're all playing with... their brand new iphone sevens. It's a token "doomsday" blurb designed to highlight how badass and grimdark the army is. Everybody has one.

2. Let's say two people are debating, and one person says "I'm right because I'm smarter than you." The other person accuses him of the use of ad hominem attacks. He responds "But I am smarter than you."
That's what you just did.

Unfortunately, that's A) not what's happened and B) still not ad hominem.

Also, just because I don't agree with your points doesn't mean I can't understand them.

Yet you seem determined not to.

If you want to decide who wins make a poll.

 necronuser wrote:
If you want to decide who wins make a poll.

It's not about who wins to me, I love the idea of a changed setting in 40k. It bugs me when someone is appearing to be TFG and has nothing else to say other than a few sentences when 40k has developed hundreds of stories. He basically takes propaganda to persuade new players to enjoy the army and spouts it like it's 100% indisputable.

It's like talking to a well informed christian about the existence of other gods. It seems logically possible to have a discussion... then well you get this.

 Anfauglir wrote:

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

1. Everything in the passages for individual factions is, in fact, official canon. You won't find anything contradicting canon in the army entries.

Yeah, you pretty much will, as it goes. The fact that they're all official canon is why your supporting quote is invalidated. It's like trying to argue that your brand new iphone seven is the best in the room... while everybody else is too busy to listen to you because they're all playing with... their brand new iphone sevens. It's a token "doomsday" blurb designed to highlight how badass and grimdark the army is. Everybody has one.

Not every army has canon-contradicting boasts in its sections. That statement is simply untrue. I hereby challenge you to find a canon-contradicting boast in any of the other army pages.
Also, can we drop the ad hominem attack debate? In this context, the definition of an ad hominem attack is essentially subjective.

Necrons have already purged the galaxy once of life so I'm pretty sure they could do it again.

 Dumah12 wrote:
Necrons have already purged the galaxy once of life so I'm pretty sure they could do it again.

Of course they didn't have to contend with Chaos Gods at the time.


And right now they arn't interested in purging the Galaxy of life. They are looking for a suitable host race for biotransference.

The chaos gods are a valid point but necrons fought the old ones, and a lot of necron technology is anti warp based. For instance cadia is not a torrent of warp energies because of necron constructs on the surface. Would I agree that necrons are not the only victor in the universe, yes, but necrons have no precense in the warp and therefore feed no power to the choas gods. Not all necrons are looking to return to bodies of flesh. That is the silent king's main goal and if he were to return I would say that would become a substantial goal of the necrons as a whole.

There is also the void dragon and if pretty much anyone were to awaken him and side with him everybody who uses machines (aka everybody but chaos to an extent) would be fethed and basically back to Stone Age tech.

IMO though it depends on what happens to the emperor on really what happens. If he dies and is reborn a new age for the imperium. If he dies and goes into the warp to fight the chaos gods well for the past 10000 years he has had billions of souls sacrificed to him he basically gak stomps everyone. Now when this happens there is a good chance that terra will die, mostly because not only is he projecting the astonomican through out the galaxy but he is also holding the powers of the warp from flooding through the failed webway gate he tried to build. So there is a good chance that the imperium will be the first out.

As for other races. Tau probably gonna die, why they are simply to small to handle a fight with everybody else. Orks if united can do a lot but will probably get killed in the end by choas or tyranids or necrons. Tyranids depends on how much still remains to get to the galaxy but if a single c'tan(the deceiver) can cause them to steer clear of him and single tomb worlds remain untouched in the path of hive fleets they fethed. Eldar they are already dying, dark eldar will probably die to because if chaos finds a way into the webway Slanesh will rape them literally and metaphorically.

As for the powers of chaos they would have to not kill everybody and enslave a lot of stuff to keep from losing power. In the end Slanesh will be the weakest, mostly because the top contenders either don't get it on or are not sadists. If things stop dying aka necrons and tyranids, (do they die? They kind of just get recycled and reused. They have no souls and are more just extensions of the hive mind imo) nurgle will decrease in power
But khorne and tzeentch will grow substantially in power, since gak keeps changing and there is a lot of war going on.

So I think Necrons and depending on how the warp powers play it could come out on top. Imperium very slim chance but there. Everybody else dead, or slaves.

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

Not every army has canon-contradicting boasts in its sections. That statement is simply untrue. I hereby challenge you to find a canon-contradicting boast in any of the other army pages.

Firstly, that wasn't my statement so you can stop putting words into my mouth (keyboard?), and secondly what I have said has already been proven to a satisfactory level by contributions made by Big Mek Wurrzog. It's a simple fact that most armies have those token "we have/can/will conquer the galaxy one day..." type entries in their fluff. It's laughably trivial for you to try and argue otherwise at this point, but I have a strange feeling you're going to keep going anyway... oh well.

Also, can we drop the ad hominem attack debate?

Seeing as it was you who tried and failed to drag it into the debate in the first place; gladly.

In this context, the definition of an ad hominem attack is essentially subjective.

Now here's a statement which is simply untrue.

 Dumah12 wrote:
The chaos gods are a valid point but necrons fought the old ones, and a lot of necron technology is anti warp based. For instance cadia is not a torrent of warp energies because of necron constructs on the surface. Would I agree that necrons are not the only victor in the universe, yes, but necrons have no precense in the warp and therefore feed no power to the choas gods. Not all necrons are looking to return to bodies of flesh. That is the silent king's main goal and if he were to return I would say that would become a substantial goal of the necrons as a whole.

There is also the void dragon and if pretty much anyone were to awaken him and side with him everybody who uses machines (aka everybody but chaos to an extent) would be fethed and basically back to Stone Age tech.

IMO though it depends on what happens to the emperor on really what happens. If he dies and is reborn a new age for the imperium. If he dies and goes into the warp to fight the chaos gods well for the past 10000 years he has had billions of souls sacrificed to him he basically gak stomps everyone. Now when this happens there is a good chance that terra will die, mostly because not only is he projecting the astonomican through out the galaxy but he is also holding the powers of the warp from flooding through the failed webway gate he tried to build. So there is a good chance that the imperium will be the first out.

As for other races. Tau probably gonna die, why they are simply to small to handle a fight with everybody else. Orks if united can do a lot but will probably get killed in the end by choas or tyranids or necrons. Tyranids depends on how much still remains to get to the galaxy but if a single c'tan(the deceiver) can cause them to steer clear of him and single tomb worlds remain untouched in the path of hive fleets they fethed. Eldar they are already dying, dark eldar will probably die to because if chaos finds a way into the webway Slanesh will rape them literally and metaphorically.

As for the powers of chaos they would have to not kill everybody and enslave a lot of stuff to keep from losing power. In the end Slanesh will be the weakest, mostly because the top contenders either don't get it on or are not sadists. If things stop dying aka necrons and tyranids, (do they die? They kind of just get recycled and reused. They have no souls and are more just extensions of the hive mind imo) nurgle will decrease in power
But khorne and tzeentch will grow substantially in power, since gak keeps changing and there is a lot of war going on.

So I think Necrons and depending on how the warp powers play it could come out on top. Imperium very slim chance but there. Everybody else dead, or slaves.

At long last someone provides a compelling argument

Not sure anti-warp was needed to face chaos considering the true problem here isn't the destruction of chaos but rather than fact the Necrons are now susceptible to chaos' influence and diversionary powers. As oppose to the old codex where Necrons had nearly no mind to speak of at all they now have been given rich personalities with goals and motivations. This means just like demon invest machine spirits of the IOM or chaos infested titans ect the necrons are capable of being turned to the side of chaos now.

Void Dragon, according to new edition fluff the C'tan are no longer the allies of the Necron due to their deceit and shattering the c'tan into shards which they could then force into submission. In the Codex iirc the necron lords are very worried about the C'tan and take even rumors of them seriously since they do not have they all accounted for. Dragon may have dominance over machines but he was bested by even the Emperor and it was the idea of the last codex that he was restrained on Mars. Many stories were established to state that the necron even set foot on Mars with nearly no detection, while they didn't make it much farther than setting in on foot it worried the crap out of the Adetpus Mechanicus.

C'tan Outsider is theorized to be the overmind to the nids after it went made from consuming too many of it's fellow c'tan. Nightbringer ordered it's exile outside their dominion (the galaxy) so it stands to chance that Dragon would have 0 impact on the Nid's oganic based army. Infact Nids could conceivably have an edge over them tactically speaking since it would stand to chance the necron Empire wouldn't realize in a final showdown that this ravenous hivemind is actually a c'tan. I don't like this story but it always had a certain charm to me

Supposedly the Emperor has way too much uncertainty around him, a true wildcard with nearly the fate of billions of billions of souls which could be sacrificed simply from his abscence. I am a fan of one of his primarch sons returns in the midst of an epic battle and replaces the emperor on the golden throne.But it also stands to chance in 2,000 years he is still going to be in the exact same place/condition.

Necrons didn't exterminate all life in the galaxy in the codex but they certainly came close enough until the Old Ones fought back with the eldar and possibly theroized the Orks which were gifted with plentiful lives or nearly immortal ones which was according to the old codex the very reason the necrons sold their souls to the c'tan in the first place which was to no longer struggle to survive and show how well they had learned of death to all races especially the old ones.

I commend you for bringing actual subject matter into the thread, I've personally had enough baseless declarations for the rest of the month

 Anfauglir wrote:

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

Not every army has canon-contradicting boasts in its sections. That statement is simply untrue. I hereby challenge you to find a canon-contradicting boast in any of the other army pages.

Firstly, that wasn't my statement so you can stop putting words into my mouth (keyboard?), and secondly what I have said has already been proven to a satisfactory level by contributions made by Big Mek Wurrzog. It's a simple fact that most armies have those token "we have/can/will conquer the galaxy one day..." type entries in their fluff. It's laughably trivial for you to try and argue otherwise at this point, but I have a strange feeling you're going to keep going anyway... oh well.

Again... If there are so many of these, please give an example. And that "Apocalyptic Ork Rising" one doesn't count because that actually isn't contradictory to established fluff. Niether does that "Everyone fears Chaos" one because that was just a small slight on the part of the writers, not a blatant violation of official fluff.
Now that I think of it... What fluff does that statement about the Necrons violate? Seems to me like you've confused official fluff with your own potentially faulty logic.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Dumah12 wrote:
Necrons have already purged the galaxy once of life so I'm pretty sure they could do it again.

Of course they didn't have to contend with Chaos Gods at the time.


And right now they arn't interested in purging the Galaxy of life. They are looking for a suitable host race for biotransference.

Chaos has no unity and has the collective attention span of a two year old with ADHD high on crack. They're really rather irrelevant on the grand scheme of things, as every time Chaos marshalls out in force, the assault ends up losing momentum quickly as Abaddon loses the attention of his subordinates who all go off to do their own thing and splatter like bugs on the wind shield due to their inferior numbers, military-industrial capacity, and generally really quite poor tactics. The Chaos Space marines and their hangers on would realistically crumble far more easily than the Imperium. If Abaddon bites the dust or a serious challenger to his title arises, the traitor legions are going to more or less destroy each other in the ensuing civil war. And all the Daemons of Chaos are more or less worthless if they can't be summoned on account of their followers having obliterated themselves in a civil war that accomplished little save for one guy getting to slap a title onto his name.

Really, the mortal followers of Chaos have all the weaknesses of the Orks without even getting to have their sheer weight of numbers. Ultimately, it's going to come down to the Orks, Necrons, and Tyranids. And unless the necrons and orks have something up their sleeve that can stop a race whose numbers are bloated by having stripped dozens of galaxies for every last scrap of usable matter, the Tyranids are going to strip the galaxy of all life, from the mightiest Orkeosaurus down to tiniest virus, leaving an utterly silent void. The necrons will likely survive if enough decide to hunker down and let the Tyranids pass. And one the storm passes through, they're probably going to decide to pack up and leave the Milky way to find bodies to engage in biotransferrance with.

Not sure anti-warp was needed to face chaos considering the true problem here isn't the destruction of chaos but rather than fact the Necrons are now susceptible to chaos' influence and diversionary powers. As oppose to the old codex where Necrons had nearly no mind to speak of at all they now have been given rich personalities with goals and motivations. This means just like demon invest machine spirits of the IOM or chaos infested titans ect the necrons are capable of being turned to the side of chaos now.

There is nothing, I repeat, Nothing to indicate that Necrons are sucepitable to chaos. They still do not have souls, or any connection to the warp.

Void Dragon, according to new edition fluff the C'tan are no longer the allies of the Necron due to their deceit and shattering the c'tan into shards which they could then force into submission. In the Codex iirc the necron lords are very worried about the C'tan and take even rumors of them seriously since they do not have they all accounted for. Dragon may have dominance over machines but he was bested by even the Emperor and it was the idea of the last codex that he was restrained on Mars. Many stories were established to state that the necron even set foot on Mars with nearly no detection, while they didn't make it much farther than setting in on foot it worried the crap out of the Adetpus Mechanicus.

Yes, all of the C'tan have been sharded now, but the Necrons can call out the Shards in battle, but there are still some unaccounted for. Their power varies though, as the Shard of the Void Dragon was enough to nearly defeat the Emperor.

C'tan Outsider is theorized to be the overmind to the nids after it went made from consuming too many of it's fellow c'tan. Nightbringer ordered it's exile outside their dominion (the galaxy) so it stands to chance that Dragon would have 0 impact on the Nid's oganic based army. Infact Nids could conceivably have an edge over them tactically speaking since it would stand to chance the necron Empire wouldn't realize in a final showdown that this ravenous hivemind is actually a c'tan. I don't like this story but it always had a certain charm to me

There is nothing to support this at all. The Nightbringer Ordering its' exile? Do you have a source for that? I've never heard of such a thing. It woulden't be cannon anymore anyway, since all of the C'tan have been shattered.

Necrons didn't exterminate all life in the galaxy in the codex but they certainly came close enough until the Old Ones fought back with the eldar and possibly theroized the Orks which were gifted with plentiful lives or nearly immortal ones which was according to the old codex the very reason the necrons sold their souls to the c'tan in the first place which was to no longer struggle to survive and show how well they had learned of death to all races especially the old ones.

I think you need to reread the Necron Codexs, because this is pretty inaccurate. The Necrons ruled the Galaxy, before they began their war with the Old ones, they were not exterminating life. They used the Old ones as a common foe to unite the fracturing empire. After getting trounced thanks to the Old ones maneuverability, they took a deal with the C'tan, and starting stomping them. The Old ones created the Eldar, the Orks, and a host of other races in a attempt to stop the Necrons, but to no avail.

I commend you for bringing actual subject matter into the thread, I've personally had enough baseless declarations for the rest of the month

I think you should really get your facts right, before you call out other people on baseless declarations.

There is nothing, I repeat, Nothing to indicate that Necrons are sucepitable to chaos. They still do not have souls, or any connection to the warp.

Technically speaking, Many inanimate things are possessed by Chaos, buildings, streets, weaponry and even simple trinkets and corpses. The necrons have no stated defense just a lack of proper souls as unlikely as it sounds i am not convinced chaos couldn't ruin necron temples and idols.

Void Dragon, according to new edition fluff the C'tan are no longer the allies of the Necron due to their deceit and shattering the c'tan into shards which they could then force into submission. In the Codex iirc the necron lords are very worried about the C'tan and take even rumors of them seriously since they do not have they all accounted for. Dragon may have dominance over machines but he was bested by even the Emperor and it was the idea of the last codex that he was restrained on Mars. Many stories were established to state that the necron even set foot on Mars with nearly no detection, while they didn't make it much farther than setting in on foot it worried the crap out of the Adetpus Mechanicus.

See... i really hate this, the old Codex made a c'tan make more sense to me; Gods pure and simple. Now it is shattered fragments of gods under the control of the Necron whatever. Anyway if it was a simple shard (which makes little sense since a single grey knight can kill the nightbringer shards if i am not mistaken. In the old fluff these were far more powerful and exacting now they are just trygons.

There is nothing to support this at all. The Nightbringer Ordering its' exile? Do you have a source for that? I've never heard of such a thing. It woulden't be cannon anymore anyway, since all of the C'tan have been shattered.

I re-read the entry, it talks about the Laughing god (which i confused for the deceiver since it was 10 years ago i read the codex) it is on page 25 of 4th ed codex under "The outsider" and it tells the origins of a C'tan who has become addicted to devouring it;s kind due to a cunning trick by the laughing god of the Eldar for lawls. I thought i read the part about nightbringer but seems I was mistaken, regardless the theory was still a sound one which was that this C'tan isn't accounted for and it did leave the galaxy (take whatever version of the fluff you like) And this being now hates the eldar. It sums up the desires of the nids well now "total erradication + impulse to eat"

I think you need to reread the Necron Codexs, because this is pretty inaccurate. The Necrons ruled the Galaxy, before they began their war with the Old ones, they were not exterminating life. They used the Old ones as a common foe to unite the fracturing empire. After getting trounced thanks to the Old ones maneuverability, they took a deal with the C'tan, and starting stomping them. The Old ones created the Eldar, the Orks, and a host of other races in a attempt to stop the Necrons, but to no avail.

I speak of the origins of th Necrotyr, 4th ed codex pg 24 under the Necrotyr. " as the Old Ones Spread across the Galaxy younger, fiercer races struggled in their wake. The Necrotyr were such a race, born under a fearsome, scourging star... their lives were short and uncertain , their bodies blighted and consumed by the searing caress of their cruel star. They were a mercurial, morbid folk ..."

You are reading the re-boot which i refuse to waste my time with, the fluff of necrons was amazing in 4th this new one was stupid as hell...

I think you should really get your facts right, before you call out other people on baseless declarations.

I try to every time Sasori, and i stand by the statements i made 1 honest mistake in dozens of statements is acceptable to me. the rest is mere conjecture that such things can't take place. Ultimately i am quoted retconned GW info which honestly fit just fine before mr. Ward took a bat to it. though these facts might not be accurate any longer they are in essence mostly unchanged and even these errors did not change a 2 sentence defense for wiping all life now and days.

Technically speaking, Many inanimate things are possessed by Chaos, buildings, streets, weaponry and even simple trinkets and corpses. The necrons have no stated defense just a lack of proper souls as unlikely as it sounds i am not convinced chaos couldn't ruin necron temples and idols.

There has been nothing shown in the fluff so far, that Chaos has any influence on the Necrons.

See... i really hate this, the old Codex made a c'tan make more sense to me; Gods pure and simple. Now it is shattered fragments of gods under the control of the Necron whatever. Anyway if it was a simple shard (which makes little sense since a single grey knight can kill the nightbringer shards if i am not mistaken. In the old fluff these were far more powerful and exacting now they are just trygons.

The True power of the C'tan coulden't be reasonably represented on the tabletop at all. It makes sense that they choose to go with the sharding. It lets you use the models, fits with the fluff, and allows for some customization. Having a true Star God go down in one round thanks to hellfire from Sternguard, is a lot worse in my opinion, than having a shard meet the same fate

I re-read the entry, it talks about the Laughing god (which i confused for the deceiver since it was 10 years ago i read the codex) it is on page 25 of 4th ed codex under "The outsider" and it tells the origins of a C'tan who has become addicted to devouring it;s kind due to a cunning trick by the laughing god of the Eldar for lawls. I thought i read the part about nightbringer but seems I was mistaken, regardless the theory was still a sound one which was that this C'tan isn't accounted for and it did leave the galaxy (take whatever version of the fluff you like) And this being now hates the eldar. It sums up the desires of the nids well now "total erradication + impulse to eat"

You have to take the new fluff into account, you can't just pick which version you like. The new fluff is what is cannon. You can take bits of the old fluff, which still exist, as long as it doesn't conflict with anything in the new fluff.

I speak of the origins of th Necrotyr, 4th ed codex pg 24 under the Necrotyr. " as the Old Ones Spread across the Galaxy younger, fiercer races struggled in their wake. The Necrotyr were such a race, born under a fearsome, scourging star... their lives were short and uncertain , their bodies blighted and consumed by the searing caress of their cruel star. They were a mercurial, morbid folk ..."

You are reading the re-boot which i refuse to waste my time with, the fluff of necrons was amazing in 4th this new one was stupid as hell...

Regardless on opinion of the new fluff, it is what is cannon, for all purposes in the background section it takes precedence. If you refuse to waste your time on what the new cannon fluff is, it's going to be impossible to have a reasonable debate on background.

I try to every time Sasori, and i stand by the statements i made 1 honest mistake in dozens of statements is acceptable to me. the rest is mere conjecture that such things can't take place. Ultimately i am quoted retconned GW info which honestly fit just fine before mr. Ward took a bat to it. though these facts might not be accurate any longer they are in essence mostly unchanged and even these errors did not change a 2 sentence defense for wiping all life now and days.

A significant amount has changed in the new codex, there is no feasible way than any observation can say that they haven't. As I mentioned earlier, it's hard to have a reasonable discussion, when some individuals are using out of date information.

 DOOMBREAD wrote:

Again... If there are so many of these, please give an example. And that "Apocalyptic Ork Rising" one doesn't count because that actually isn't contradictory to established fluff. Niether does that "Everyone fears Chaos" one because that was just a small slight on the part of the writers, not a blatant violation of official fluff.
Now that I think of it... What fluff does that statement about the Necrons violate? Seems to me like you've confused official fluff with your own potentially faulty logic.

Okay, you've spun completly off course now into a tangent on "violation" and "contradictory" fluff statements which I only said can be found in GW's material as an aside at best - not as a central component to my argument. You need to let it go and come back into the realm of relevance. My debate with you has never been about contradictory or violating statements in the fluff, therefore the evidence put forth by Big Mek not counting because it's not contradictory makes absolutely no sense whatsoever in the context of the point both he and I are making with it. You're on your own with this one, so I recommend you take a step back and remember what it is we are actually talking about.

Now, getting back on course with the context of our actual debate... your response is as trivial as I predicted. So, to sum up your latest position: "when I take a quote from a faction's doomsday blurb it totally and fully supports my argument that that faction is the strongest and is going to win and is an undeniable fact. However, when you (or more specifically Big Mek, in this instance) take a similar quote from a different faction(s)... it "doesn't count" because of my shoehorned tangent, or it was a "writing boo-boo" made by the publishers, and of course, I know better than they do."

I think that about sums it up, no?

Hmm. Okay then.

WARHAMMER 42,000
The Emperor awakens in the material realm on the golden throne in a weakened state. Can't actually move but manages to speak to his custodes. His awakening gutters out the astronomican. This stops Imperial interstellar movement almost completely, and stops the Tyranid expansion as well.
Some traitor legions flee the Chaos cause forsaking their powers, others cling more tightly. Word Bearers see his awakening as his true ascension to godhood and decide to repent, the Ruinous Powers turn all of them into warp spawn. All of the "where are they now" primarchs show up throughout the galaxy, slicing up xenos and traitors alike.
As the emperor regains his strength he has the Ecclesiarchy blacklisted and sends Russ after them, pissed that they have come to power in the first place. Titan begins fall, and to gain time for them to figure out a course of action they move Titan back into the warp. Subsequently all of their tesseract daemon prisons are opened. Titan reappears five years earlier in the eye of terror as a daemon world (time works differently in the warp, yo). The Eldar were informed of this psychically and were waiting there in massed numbers and managed to destroy it minutes after it appeared.
Thanks folks. Imperial Guard, seeing no more use for the Eldar, begin firing on craftworlds near the cadian gate. War breaks out. This draws orks (via wierdboyz). The orks manage to slaughter the Eldar and take over Cadia.
Few astartes respond to this threat. Most of them are busy making headway against the tyranid hive fleets and taking back worlds, or destroying them. Whatever. Same thing. The renewed Ruinous Powers re-emerge from the eye of terror and daemons and traitors fight alongside the orks. Turns out they're chaos incarnate. Everyone is surprised by this for some reason.
The Dark Eldar raid these battlefields and do what they do best. With the rise in Slaanesh's power they need even more pain to survive, and a large number of cults and kabals have turned to Slaanesh completely.
Commorragh becomes more fractured as Slaanesh takes over a large part of it completely.
The Tau begin offering aid, to those worlds that will take it.
The emperor grows in physical power every day, and his psychic power grows again as well. He and the custodes leave terra for mars, round up the Adeptus Mechanicus, and make their way for the Eye of Terror.
A bunch of cool new sculpts are made of all of the existing models. A bunch of hardcover IA books and codices are written.
Everything is too expensive.
No one is happy.
All of the models are finecast.
THE END

P.S. Necrons wait and see what happens, and then spam flyers. Necrons win.

But WAIT what about Forgeworld stuff? Surely it is not Finecast?

I'm waiting for the extended cut edition...

The Deceiver made even Space Marines turn against each other, letting the empire destroy itself from the inside. While the Orks were about to rise from all the loot, Necrons used their technology to take control of the tyranids in order to turn them against the Orks along with their own forces, getting rid of every ork there ever was, without a chance to futher reproduce due to any form of life being either consumed or destroyed. Tyranids were then made to turn into cannibalism and Necrons only genocided the pitiful remains. Then, the Necrons now having destroyed every spark of life in the galaxy, finally go to sleep...permanently. A last green thunderstorm and the deceiver smiles. The Nightbringer sees his very time to have come and battles the deceiver in an epic fight, finally triumphing over his former borther. He then uses his absolute power to cut the universe and the contiuum of space and time apart, destroying everything there ever was and ever will be.

THE END.

GAME OVER.

OK, disclaimer first - we all know that so long as it's supporting the game the fluff isn't likely to change too much, and realistically we're never going to see one faction take over the galaxy and 'win'. Actually, we're more likely to see another faction enter the equation (to let GW sell more models) - new Chaos God anybody? That aside, it can be fun to think about how things could change, so here's my bit (based on the fact that I think the Imperium is not getting much love in this thread).

The Emperor finally dies. Turns out he got it all wrong; he was trying to save humanity from the warp as more and more human psykers were born, but turns out all he did was make the race stagnate for 10K years. Without him keeping things in check (and nomming thousands of psykers every day) there are suddenly millions of more rogue psykers in the galaxy. Most of these are corrupted by Chaos but those that are left are increasingly powerful and immune to the corrupting effect of the warp (thanks Darwin). Humanity finally evolves, and after a brief dark age emerges as a new crusade led by super powerful psykers who are immune to the warp and enough of a force to give Chaos, 'Nids, 'Crons and all the rest a run for their money...

 sierra 1247 wrote:

and draigo gets killed by a grot

THIS I'd love to see.

Tyranids eat everything before becoming locked in an infinate war with daemons.