So a guy who I believe to be the winner of a slayer sword in europe is selling it on eBay for €6000, should he be allowed to or shoul it be removed from sale due to its very nature and elite standing? Opinions???

no. its only a sword.

It's his, he can sell it if e wants. Why on earth would it be an issue?

If it's his property, I don't see the issue.

It's not like whoever buys it will be able to convince people they actually won it considering winners are all fully documented online.

He's willing to sell something he won to make a quick buck, while the buyer will own a trophy that he should really have won rather than just bought off an internet auction site. No issue here.

Do we know why he is selling it? For all we know there is a pretty legitimate and pressing reason for him to need some cash and the sword is something that can make that money in a short amount of time.

If it not your stuff he's selling, who cares.

As long as the buyer doesn't try to represent it as his own trophy, there's really nothing wrong with it.

Yes, ebay should refuse to allow him to sell his own property because some people on a gaming forum are outraged that someone else could buy a trophy without earning it.

I remember seeing random trophies in thrift stores all the time.

I have no idea what a Slayer Sword is...

 Testify wrote:
I have no idea what a Slayer Sword is...

It's a sword you slay people with of course.

It is also the trophy you get for winning a golden demon painting competition.

Perfectly okay. I draw the line at selling your children on eBay.

 Testify wrote:
I have no idea what a Slayer Sword is...

It's the trophy given to the winner of the Golden Demon competition.

There are currently sixty-nine thousand eighty five results for trophy on ebay. I am sure some of those have already been awarded ans are sold as collectables, keepsakes, or memorabilia. If he is in the wrong, then the seller is among company.

I kind of hope that poor guy that won at gamesday Japan buys it.

Sometimes gak happens in life and you need to make a quick buck.

He can do whatever he wants with his personal property.

Plenty of cases of folks selling off their Olympic medals.

 Dais wrote:
There are currently sixty-nine thousand eighty five results for trophy on ebay. I am sure some of those have already been awarded ans are sold as collectables, keepsakes, or memorabilia. If he is in the wrong, then the seller is among company.

I kind of hope that poor guy that won at gamesday Japan buys it.

He still wouldn't be able to import it. That was the problem in the first place.

Buying it is morally ambiguous. Selling it is just kinda sad.

No problem, it is his property.

 Krellnus wrote:
No problem, it is his property.

Property laws are not based in morality. If a 4 year old girl spent hours lovingly making a macaroni card for her dad for his birthday and the dude sold it two hours later to buy cigarettes that would be morally reprehensible. You can do legal things that are morally wrong.

He's probably selling it to pay his taxes or to help his sister go to school.

I hope he gets his feet back under him soon.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Perfectly okay. I draw the line at selling your children on eBay.

Selling OTHER peoples' children? A-OK!

I have about as much of problem with this as I do selling children on eBay.

No issues here.

I see no issue with it. Hell, maybe he's moving and can't keep it.

Yeah no issue here either, let the guy sell it if that what he wants to do with it.

I know im not an amazing painter, but if it was cheap, it would make an amusing decoration for a Wargaming room.

Hmm, I could use a new letter opener...

Think people put a bit too much importance on that sort of thing...though if I were to be looking to pick up a sword or three for my game room I could think of a few dozen which I would rather have:

http://budk.com/category/Swords/Fantasy-Swords/pc/2883/2888.uts

Throw in some stuff like the Predator mask and some of the big axes - you would still be paying less for an entire wall full of metal than what he will probably get for the "slayer sword".

Dude, he's not selling his virginity or a bodily organ. Its a sword given as a trophy.

Jeez...

I can see why people would be discomfited by it.

For most of us, this hobby is defined in part by the gorgeous models we've seen in WD and online, of which the peak, the unattainable tip of the artistic mountain, is often embodied by the Slayer Sword winners. The folks who win the grand prize, as overall champion at each Golden Daemon competition. I still clearly remember the first Slayer Sword winner I saw in WD, in the Open category. An amazing Great Unclean One on a scratchbuilt daemonic chariot, with an elaborate stone display base, which absolutely blew my mind.

The idea that a person can put those hundreds of hours of work into a unique piece of art, then win out the judges' choice over several other amazing candidates to be the champion is something beyond most of our capacity to really picture attempting, much less succeeding at. But their work is always inspirational to us. Selling the sword which signifies their achievement is a bit of a let down.

That being said, if the person's situation is such that they need to raise the cash and let it go, it's sad, but of course it's their right.

I own a Silver Star, a Bronze Star, a Purple Heart and many other military medals for valour and service (from a number of nations). All real, all issued to actual servicepeople. Many of them modern and from current conflicts. (As opposed to, say, WW2 medals where the recipient would have almost always passed on.)

I also own a number of fossils that are literally hundreds of millions of years old.

I was able to purchase all of these items. In many cases, for not nearly as much as you might think - and from 100% reputable dealers.

Think about that, and put them into perspective alongside being able to sell a Sword awarded as a prize for high quality painting..

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Dude, he's not selling his virginity or a bodily organ. Its a sword given as a trophy.

Jeez...

Lol, if only gamers could sell that...

Oversupply and under-demand on that one

 Dais wrote:
I kind of hope that poor guy that won at gamesday Japan buys it.

That would be rad, but then he still wouldn't be able to import it into the country. And we would be sad again.

 Robert Facepalmer wrote:

 Dais wrote:
I kind of hope that poor guy that won at gamesday Japan buys it.

That would be rad, but then he still wouldn't be able to import it into the country. And we would be sad again.

He doesn't need to buy one anyway. The actual Slayer Sword he won is in GW HQ waiting for him if he ever leaves Japan. It's not like they only gave him a printout of the sword - he just can't have the real one that is his property while living in Japan.

 scipio.au wrote:
I own a Silver Star, a Bronze Star, a Purple Heart and many other military medals for valour and service (from a number of nations). All real, all issued to actual servicepeople. Many of them modern and from current conflicts. (As opposed to, say, WW2 medals where the recipient would have almost always passed on.)

I also own a number of fossils that are literally hundreds of millions of years old.

I was able to purchase all of these items. In many cases, for not nearly as much as you might think - and from 100% reputable dealers.

Think about that, and put them into perspective alongside being able to sell a Sword awarded as a prize for high quality painting..

While I understand where you are going with that - I can swing by clothing sales and pick up duplicate medals without any problem, there are a couple which I had to show my DD214 when I got duplicates the last time I did Color Guard service. They are an interesting colector's item, but it isn't something that you only ever get one of.

Fossils are similar, though a little harder to come by. I know up at our ranch in Montana we come across lots of them anytime that we dig into the ground to put in a new fence line or something similar. Initially it was pretty neat to find - but after a bit, it is just another rock in the hole you are trying to dig.

That said, you could probably find a dozen or so different custom knife makers who would be willing to make a copy of any of the slayer swords which GW have used and inscribe it with whatever you want for a bit less than what the guy on eBay got for his.

"So a guy who I believe to be the winner of a slayer sword in europe is selling it on eBay for €6000, should he be allowed to or shoul it be removed from sale due to its very nature and elite standing?" Opinions???


It is not as important as it once was, thanks to GW.

All it is now is just another award- I have a closet full of them, that sword would be just another one.


Think he's kinda steep asking for 6000, though.

It's a trophy for painting little toy men - no big deal. Now if the buyer pretends they actually won it that is sad but again it is for toy men. Now the guy who has the military medals (I'm not saying he does) but if he were to act like he earned those medals that would morally reprehensible.

Can You actually slay real persons with this sword?

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

While I understand where you are going with that - I can swing by clothing sales and pick up duplicate medals without any problem, there are a couple which I had to show my DD214 when I got duplicates the last time I did Color Guard service. They are an interesting colector's item, but it isn't something that you only ever get one of.

Sure, but look at it this way - a Purple Heart is a medal that someone got by being wounded. The Silver Star is, well -

The Silver Star, referred to as the Silver Star Medal by the Navy and Marine Corps, is the third highest military decoration for valor that can be awarded to any person serving in any capacity with the United States Armed Forces. The medal is awarded for gallantry in action against an enemy of the United States.

I'm pretty sure they don't get handed out in Corn Flakes packets, and the fact that you can actually buy the real things (not repros), recently issued and awarded, and what they're awarded for is a pretty big deal. While a Slayer Sword is an amazing achievement, to a buyer, it's ultimately just a cool sword if you didn't happen to win it yourself. It may as well be a Frostmourne which is also a very cool looking sword - but it's ultimately just a cool-looking sword (if you didn't win it). A Silver Star (or Iron Cross, or Dinosaur Tooth, etc) is something that retains it's meaning and, I guess, depth way beyond a cool looking painting trophy that happens to be in the shape of a sword. Like, when I buy some of this stuff (medals, historical militaria, Greek and Roman artefacts, fossils) I still in somewhat of a "How the **** am I able to buy this stuff?" reaction. And I've been collecting that stuff for years.

You know, compared to a painting trophy in the form of a sword.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

We wrote:
It's a trophy for painting little toy men - no big deal. Now if the buyer pretends they actually won it that is sad but again it is for toy men. Now the guy who has the military medals (I'm not saying he does) but if he were to act like he earned those medals that would morally reprehensible.

Oh, the sad thing is that there are people out there who do that. I don't think I'd get far pretending I earned my US-issued medals, what with being an Australian and all.

As for my Grandfather's WWII Australian Army medals and uniforms - well, I might own them now, but they're his medals. Not mine to wear - I didn't earn them.

CainTheHunter wrote:
Can You actually slay real persons with this sword?

This is the best comment/question in this thread, and I think you should know that.

 scipio.au wrote:
As for my Grandfather's WWII Australian Army medals and uniforms - well, I might own them now, but they're his medals. Not mine to wear - I didn't earn them.

But if You are into historical WW2 re-enactment (for example, reenacting New Zealanders during Operation Mercury) then You probably can.

 Ouze wrote:

CainTheHunter wrote:
Can You actually slay real persons with this sword?

This is the best comment/question in this thread, and I think you should know that.

Thank You! You made me to feel proud and happy panda!

No issue really.

I don't think it's even questionable.

In the end, Golden Daemon is just a commercial event. It's a promo GW uses to get people to advertise their product for free. If someone turns around and tries to recoup some of their costs for entering, why not?

A lot of painters also enter to get trophies so they can charge higher fees for commission painting, etc. . This may be less subtle and more direct, but the essence is the same. Get some profit out of Golden Daemon.

It's all business through and through. It's not like someone's flipping Mother Teresa's rosary or some such.

CainTheHunter wrote:

But if You are into historical WW2 re-enactment (for example, reenacting New Zealanders during Operation Mercury) then You probably can.

That's really a different thing - and I'd imagine that a lot of reenactors would use "as close as possible to" reproductions of a lot of the gear, lest the items be lost of damaged while running around a paddock.

 scipio.au wrote:

CainTheHunter wrote:

But if You are into historical WW2 re-enactment (for example, reenacting New Zealanders during Operation Mercury) then You probably can.

That's really a different thing - and I'd imagine that a lot of reenactors would use "as close as possible to" reproductions of a lot of the gear, lest the items be lost of damaged while running around a paddock.

Around here the original RKKA Guard's insignia seems to be quite popular.

I digress, I dont see why he can't sell his sword on Ebay, but unless you are collecting it for a sword collection I would say people don't have much interest, buying a trophy with the intent to claim it was awarded to you is a little bit pathetic, kind of like keeping newspaper clippings of noble deeds done by people with the same surname as you...

Just to clarify I don't myself see a problem in it just wondered what the rest of the world thought. I think it is a shame in a way that it is being sold but like so many of you have put his s**t let him do what he likes with it

I don't have any issues with it but 6000 seems kinda steep if he's actually trying to sell it.

CainTheHunter wrote:
Can You actually slay real persons with this sword?

From what ive seen of it it varies in form between a long and a bastard sword-its essentially a hand and a half sword. It may not be sharp when you get it but you give even a blunt hand and a half sword a swing and if you know what you are doing some poor feths just been cut in to.....

 wowsmash wrote:
I don't have any issues with it but 6000 seems kinda steep if he's actually trying to sell it.

We could run a kickstarter here and do the yearly timeshare according to each own contribution, so everybody can feel himself as Slayer and know how it is to wield the Slayer Sword and slay imaginary people or cut away europenises with it! Blood for the Blood God and europenises for the Throne of .err...

I do not see anything wrong in selling the Slayer sword. For 6000, good for that guy if someone purchases it from him. In the end, its simply a trophy. For most of the population on the planet, including those even in the hobby... its completely meaningless.

Who knows... maybe he's moving in with a new "trophy" wife who said "hey you get me in the bed, or the trophy over the bed."

In that situation "trophy wife" > "trophy sword"
Happy almost Friday

For 6000 he could change his "trophy wifes" every day several weeks in a row.

Lol, this is an extremely funny notion.

There is no value to the sword what-so-ever. The poor guy in Japan got a PAPER sword for all his efforts.

Let the poor buyer of the thing tell his friends he won it. If your life is that pathetic that you need a SLAYER SWORD to prove your worth... god help ya.

It would be wrong for the buyer to use it to falsely claim he is a GD winner. But the guy selling it can do what he likes with it. It's just a sword given as a prize. It's like selling the winnings of any competition.

Anyway, the sword is huge. What do those against him selling it suggest he does if he simply hasn't got house space for it?

I'm with scipio.au on this one.

It's neither legally nor morally reprehensible to buy or sell awards.

As long as the buyer isn't going to use it to misrepresent themselves there's nothing wrong with selling an earned posession or the desire to own a monument to someone else's achievement, or (in the case of military memorabilia) sacrifice and bravery.

In fact, I'll go one step further and say that not only is it the recipient's right to sell, the person buying it is showing that they respect the achievement of the recipient and the meaning of the award by their desire to acquire it and willingness to pay a premium.

There's almost no easier way to tell what someone values than by looking at what they spend their time doing and money buying.

CainTheHunter wrote:Can You actually slay real persons with this sword?

Yes, but you'd damage it. From what I understand, it's a show sword and likely made of stainless steel and couldn't handle practical use. If you're looking for a sword for practical use, I'd recommend Ronin Katanas, any of the practical swords by Hanwei or the new T10 tool steel Katana through SBG. If you want a nice big two handed sword like the slayer sword, but real, Darksword Armory in Canada makes great hand crafted ones.

Remember that all slaying of real persons should be done in ways that comply with the laws of your jurisdiction.

Nothing wrong with selling it, Id be fething amazed if anyone pays anything decent for it though.. there isn't much of a market surely?

I mean, really.. what are you going to do with it?

 frozenwastes wrote:

CainTheHunter wrote:Can You actually slay real persons with this sword?

Yes, but you'd damage it. From what I understand, it's a show sword and likely made of stainless steel and couldn't handle practical use. If you're looking for a sword for practical use, I'd recommend Ronin Katanas, any of the practical swords by Hanwei or the new T10 tool steel Katana through SBG. If you want a nice big two handed sword like the slayer sword, but real, Darksword Armory in Canada makes great hand crafted ones.

Remember that all slaying of real persons should be done in ways that comply with the laws of your jurisdiction.

I know - I am actually a proud owner of Hanwei Scottish Baskethilt and Windlass Falchion , not speaking about countless kukris, machetes etc.

 Dais wrote:
There are currently sixty-nine thousand eighty five results for trophy on ebay. I am sure some of those have already been awarded ans are sold as collectables, keepsakes, or memorabilia. If he is in the wrong, then the seller is among company.

I kind of hope that poor guy that won at gamesday Japan buys it.

What happened to him? (General interest)
Moving on;
Why is it morally wrong for him to sell it on eBay? I don't see the context to the word at all. Sure if the person who buys the sword goes around saying he won it fair and square, its a bit of a dick move, but morally wrong is something saved for other contexts in my own humble opinion.

Piff wrote:So a guy who I believe to be the winner of a slayer sword in europe is selling it on eBay for €6000, should he be allowed to or shoul it be removed from sale due to its very nature and elite standing? Opinions???

Yes - it is his now to do with it what he wills.

d-usa wrote:Do we know why he is selling it? For all we know there is a pretty legitimate and pressing reason for him to need some cash and the sword is something that can make that money in a short amount of time.

I concur - he may have pressing issues.

Tannhauser42 wrote:As long as the buyer doesn't try to represent it as his own trophy, there's really nothing wrong with it.

Agreed.

dauntless wrote:He can do whatever he wants with his personal property.

Plenty of cases of folks selling off their Olympic medals.

Yes and some throwing them away (Ali).

ShumaGorath wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:
No problem, it is his property.

.

Property laws are not based in morality. If a 4 year old girl spent hours lovingly making a macaroni card for her dad for his birthday and the dude sold it two hours later to buy cigarettes that would be morally reprehensible. You can do legal things that are morally wrong.

 ShumaGorath wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:
No problem, it is his property.

Property laws are not based in morality. If a 4 year old girl spent hours lovingly making a macaroni card for her dad for his birthday and the dude sold it two hours later to buy cigarettes that would be morally reprehensible. You can do legal things that are morally wrong.

I fully agree with you in principle,
however in this case he might just choose the money and its not amoral. Would be very weird for somebody to buy this though. That's maybe the more immoral act.

I'm honestly more annoyed by the people who insinuate themselves in other's affairs and start crying about the morality of what they're doing. A suggestion to those folks: Mind your own ing business and fix your yard before you start whining to your neighbors about their yards.

Three pages of troll feeding? In before lock...

I bought it. Then I slayed some motherf*ckers.

 mattyrm wrote:
Nothing wrong with selling it, Id be fething amazed if anyone pays anything decent for it though.. there isn't much of a market surely?

I mean, really.. what are you going to do with it?

fething slay people with it, of course.

 kronk wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
Nothing wrong with selling it, Id be fething amazed if anyone pays anything decent for it though.. there isn't much of a market surely?

I mean, really.. what are you going to do with it?

fething slay people with it, of course.

Can you claim false advertising if it doesn't 'slayer'.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
Nothing wrong with selling it, Id be fething amazed if anyone pays anything decent for it though.. there isn't much of a market surely?

I mean, really.. what are you going to do with it?

fething slay people with it, of course.

Can you claim false advertising if it doesn't 'slayer'.

Or maybe the person concerned is not physically fit to slay people with blunt sword. You can always grab its blade and use it as the club.

It's HIS SWORD TO DO WITH AS HE WISHES.

It went for $600. SIX HUNDRED. Not 6000.

Karol is also a nice bloke, a sword collector and really doesn't like or want the sword for his collection. Going on what he's described about it, I wouldn't want it either; my re-enactment swords sound like they're better made.

A shame, as the original few swords (and Young Bloods Axes) were made by a small company (Raven Armoury) that produce some pant-wettingly nice stuff.

I'm a little 'hmm' about selling a trophy (pretty sure I'd keep it, despite it being a crap sword, purely as a memento), but that's as far as any reasonable person can take a response. There's rage and frothing and it's unseemly (especially on Facebook).

It's in his right to sell it. I think I'd probably do the same!

Capitalism is by definition Amoral.

Some people like mementos and some would rather have a few extra quid.

I think the title of this thread is funny.

According to the slayer sword winner, selling it on ebay is not against his moral code. It might be against the OPs or other people's, but that doesn't mean anything to anyone but them. RAAAAGGGE!

I would have a much bigger problem with someone selling war medals, that they didn't earn, than someone selling a stupid sword from a stupid* painting contest.


*Actual painting contest might not be stupid, but it doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things....the sword is still stupid.

 Bat Manuel wrote:

I would have a much bigger problem with someone selling war medals, that they didn't earn, than someone selling a stupid sword...

But to sell a medal that one didn't earn, either the earner or the earner's family had to first sell it.

Should only the recipient and his heirs be able to sell it and the buyer not be able to resell it?
or
Should the earner not be allowed to sell it at all?

It's a slippery slope....

 Bat Manuel wrote:
I think the title of this thread is funny.

According to the slayer sword winner, selling it on ebay is not against his moral code. It might be against the OPs or other people's, but that doesn't mean anything to anyone but them. RAAAAGGGE!

I would have a much bigger problem with someone selling war medals, that they didn't earn, than someone selling a stupid sword from a stupid* painting contest.


*Actual painting contest might not be stupid, but it doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things....the sword is still stupid.

At the point when they're things you purchased, they're essentially artefacts. With the exception of my Grandfather's stuff, all of mine are like that. Hell, I have a Soviet WW2 medal in my collection. You'd have a problem with me selling that? (RAAAAGE?) If you're talking about a family selling their son/husband's/grandfather's medals, I guess there are a whole lot of reasons people might do that - some very reasonable and some less so. Again, not my problem by the time something hits my hands.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eilif wrote:
[
But to sell a medal that one didn't earn, either the earner or the earner's family had to first sell it.

Should only the recipient and his heirs be able to sell it and the buyer not be able to resell it?
or
Should the earner not be allowed to sell it at all?

It's a slippery slope....

And then you have the question - what about medals or awards that were taken as war booty (looted from fallen enemies), or sold off by families that wanted nothing to do with what the medals or the iconography on them represents? - eg think German WWII Medals with Nazi imagery on them. Eastern Bloc medals with Communist iconography on them, etc.

 scipio.au wrote:
[

Eilif wrote:
[
But to sell a medal that one didn't earn, either the earner or the earner's family had to first sell it.
Should only the recipient and his heirs be able to sell it and the buyer not be able to resell it?
or
Should the earner not be allowed to sell it at all?
It's a slippery slope....

And then you have the question - what about medals or awards that were taken as war booty (looted from fallen enemies), or sold off by families that wanted nothing to do with what the medals or the iconography on them represents? - eg think German WWII Medals with Nazi imagery on them. Eastern Bloc medals with Communist iconography on them, etc.

That's a good point. I forgot about war booty. I've got some that my Grandfather took in WW2. From what I hear, WW2 German stuff is big business in collectors circles. Putting aside the iconography issue, (that's a thread in itself) are there moral arguments being made against buying and selling those items?

But I digress.
I think the point many of us are making is that once you take a moral argument against selling awards to it's logical conclusions it begins to fall apart.

I agree with the point - that's why I initially brought up medals and fossils - as in the scheme of things their importance is a little higher (IMO) than a painting award. As a (very casual) collector of both, I don't have an issue with the fact that I can buy them, but as mentioned in the earlier post, I have a real WTF moment when holding one of them in my hand and re-realising just what it is and/or represents. A lot "heavier" than a cool-looking painting trophy.

I posted this already under the GD UK thread.
Thanks to Pacific for pointing me here! Restecp!

Most of you know that Karol Rudyk, the winner of the Slayer Sword UK 2012, sold his sword on ebay for 600$.

Many of you do not know why yet. In short, Karol - a passionate sword collector - thought the sword was a cheap Chinese piece of "§$%. He asked me to write up an article on his feelings. I think its a good read (although now you kinda now the jist of the story. Spoiler Alert! )

I'm not sure that this is a question of morals. He won the award, it's his, and if he wants to sell it, he can.

The extra information from Zaphod's article still doesn't change that argument, it does however, give more information on why he's selling it; good luck to him I say. However, Z's article does reinforce the GW strategy of producing shoddily-made products that people will fall over themselves to buy...

Who cares?

If you win a Victoria Cross or Medal of Honour and sell it, power to you. You still won the award and not feeling like you need to prove it is only admirable.

Nobby Stiles sold off his World Cup winners medal so that his family could live more comfortably. Nobodies disrespected him for it because it just isn't an issue.

If you win a cheap sword from GW and some idiot wants to pay you hundreds for it, cash in.

Piffs' final thought: so it's great to see so many strong views about it and as always common sense prevails in that a person is free to do what the want with their property and its reassuring to know that it's still wrong to sleep with your sister. Take care of each other and don't put dice in your mouth you might choke

If he was disappointed with the sword he got, I don't blame him for getting rid of it. Also, who cares if somebody buys it and tries to claim it as their own-if they have any actual painted WH models around, chances are they won't be GD quality, and everyone who sees will know they're a jackass. Friends will tell them to cut it out and quit pretending, cuz it makes them look like a tool, and people who aren't friends with the person will tell them worse and then avoid them. Claiming to have won it without doing so is VERY easy to disprove, and it'll turn the person in a gaming-circle pariah (not the recently deceased Necron kind either). So let a prick claim to have won the sword he bought-he'll suffer in his circle, very, very badly.

I'm going to choose to believe that he had no idea how to paint until he decided he wanted a Slayer Sword.
Disappointed, he is now training for the 100m, because he thinks Olympic medals are pretty sweet looking.

 Davylove21 wrote:
If you win a Victoria Cross or Medal of Honour and sell it, power to you. You still won the award and not feeling like you need to prove it is only admirable.

Nobby Stiles sold off his World Cup winners medal so that his family could live more comfortably. Nobodies disrespected him for it because it just isn't an issue.

If you win a cheap sword from GW and some idiot wants to pay you hundreds for it, cash in.

Going to be a pedant here and point out it is illegal to sell the Medal of Honor.



It is a little disappointing how often people sell things that are supposed to be personal tokens of recognition or honour. I've seen it come up on the news when people sell their Keys to the City or their Order of <X Nation> honours. In the scheme of things, a Slayer Sword is incredibly minor.

6000 euros isn't chump change. You can buy a used car for that much. I could care less if he wants to sell it. If he's asking 6000 EU, I'm sure he needs it quick.

I didn't know it was illegal to sell the MOH. Interesting. I'm assuming the ones they use in movies are either theatrical props, or borrowed from someone then? Clint Eastwood played a Marine who had earned the MOH, and he had the ribbon, but no medal, even though you're obliged to wear it with Blues even if you wouldn't normally wear full medals.

Well, you can get replicas of anything. Medals aren't hard, and I assume there's a whole sub-industry of replica military medals, rank and unit badges, uniforms and other memorabilia easily accessible by anyone in the entertainment industry.

Not wanting to go through the mess of dealing with the government to replace his medals, I purchased all my dads medals from official suppliers, no questions asked.

Blog post with the sword winners reasoning: http://masterminis.blogspot.de/2012/10/slayer-sword-winner-speaks-out.html

Yup, as mentions, a sword collector who after seeing one, knew he had to get it. The swords use to be made by British company. In 2012, the year this guy won, GW switched to a cheaper outfit in China. Cheap piece of crap.

Maybe hes selling it to buy a new army!...

I would say it is fine for him to sell it.

However I can understand the idea from others that this is disgraceful but I think this ideal is slightly misplaced.

If you are Awarded a National Honour from a Country / International Institution / Sovereign then I would say it is a disgrace or some cases Treason to sell or pawn the award. The Medal's I have from my time in the UK Armed forces, have my name on them and Service No, but they are not mine, they are Awarded by the Sovereign and therefore can only be taken off me by the Sovereigns order, I am merely the Custodian. It is technically not an offence (for a Civilian) to sell your Medals although you are selling something that doesn't belong to you, but it is considered bad form and contemptuous to the Crown, many are passed down through generations and they will end up in a collection or sold to collectors.

For example I would consider the following Disgraceful:-

1. Selling the "Congressional Medal of Honor" or similar award you have been given.
2. Selling a "Victoria Cross" or similar award you have been given.
3. Rescinding/ disavowing a "Knighthood/peerage from the Sovereign after being invested".
4. Selling or disavowing a NOBEL prize after accepting it.

As the Slayer Sword isn't anything like any of these examples I would say he is free to do what he likes with it.

 mwnciboo wrote:
I would say it is fine for him to sell it.

However I can understand the idea from others that this is disgraceful but I think this ideal is slightly misplaced.

If you are Awarded a National Honour from a Country / International Institution / Sovereign then I would say it is a disgrace or some cases Treason to sell or pawn the award. The Medal's I have from my time in the UK Armed forces, have my name on them and Service No, but they are not mine, they are Awarded by the Sovereign and therefore can only be taken off me by the Sovereigns order, I am merely the Custodian. It is technically not an offence to sell your Medals but it is considered bad form and contemptuous to the Crown, many are passed down through generations and they will end up in a collection or sold to collectors.

For example I would consider the following Disgraceful:-

1. Selling the "Congressional Medal of Honor" or similar award you have been given.
2. Selling a "Victoria Cross" or similar award you have been given.
3. Rescinding/ disavowing a "Knighthood/peerage from the Sovereign after being invested".
4. Selling or disavowing a NOBEL prize after accepting it.

As the Slayer Sword isn't anything like any of these examples I would say he is free to do what he likes with it.

The thing is, with respect to those things that you find disrespectful to sell, if the winner of the medal is in a bad place or selling them helps him family live more comfortably, then more power to them i say.
afterall he is still the winner of X medal, even if he does not have it.

 Rayvon wrote:


The thing is, with respect to those things that you find disrespectful to sell, if the winner of the medal is in a bad place or selling them helps him family live more comfortably, then more power to them i say.
afterall he is still the winner of X medal, even if he does not have it.

If you are still serving in the military it is an Offence, if you are civilian and do it, you can actually be stripped of the award and have to return the Medal or else you will have to Pay for it. There are precedents for this, but given it is the Crown Courts and Crown Magistrates it is likely you wouldn't get a fair trial and it wouldn't stand up. But Victoria Cross recipients have been stripped of it before:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Victoria_Cross_forfeitures

Just because you received an Award doesn't make it yours, you can be stripped of it, and no longer allowed to have the privilege and entitlements it bestows. Selling something that doesn't strictly belong to you is a considerable problem, especially as possession is 9 tenths of the Law.

Equally many awards come with a Stipend or Monetary Award, stripping of the Award may well require you to pay back the stipend as you have broken the terms of the Award.

With modern Newspapers etc it would be a PR disaster all round, however if we looked after our returning Sailors, Soldiers and Airmen a bit better it wouldn't be much of an issue. As it stands it is likely to get worse over the next 20 years as PTSD manifests.

Anyway OT, selling a sword you get as a trophy for painting little men is a non-issue.

I suspect that most people who frowned on the selling of the slayer sword (myself included) are simply incredulous that someone, who had the skill to win an award that many aspire to, put the sword up for sale so shortly after GD.

In the absence of a complete picture, the act itself may imply that the seller looked down on an award that many strive and continue to work hard for.

Having learnt of the shoddy craftmenship and Karol's thoughts behind the action, I empathise and agree that selling the sword is the correct action for him.

Life is too short for RAGE. Perhaps consider all the facts before calling down the nuke? A better thread title could have been: Why did Karol sell his Slayer sword?

 mwnciboo wrote:
[
If you are still serving in the military it is an Offence, if you are civilian and do it, you can actually be stripped of the award and have to return the Medal or else you will have to Pay for it. There are precedents for this, but given it is the Crown Courts and Crown Magistrates it is likely you wouldn't get a fair trial and it wouldn't stand up. But Victoria Cross recipients have been stripped of it before:-

Spoiler:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Victoria_Cross_forfeitures

Just because you received an Award doesn't make it yours, you can be stripped of it, and no longer allowed to have the privilege and entitlements it bestows. Selling something that doesn't strictly belong to you is a considerable problem, especially as possession is 9 tenths of the Law.

Equally many awards come with a Stipend or Monetary Award, stripping of the Award may well require you to pay back the stipend as you have broken the terms of the Award.

With modern Newspapers etc it would be a PR disaster all round, however if we looked after our returning Sailors, Soldiers and Airmen a bit better it wouldn't be much of an issue. As it stands it is likely to get worse over the next 20 years as PTSD manifests.

Anyway OT, selling a sword you get as a trophy for painting little men is a non-issue.

I think the point is that you are presenting the exceptions that prove the rule. The Victoria Cross, Medal of Honor, and relatively few others have stipulations and some are not fully owned by the recipient.

However, that should not cloud the fact that most awards, prizes, etc., come with no strings attached. As you seem to indicate, we both agree that the slayer sword is one of these more common (in general terms) type of awards where there is no moral or legal obligation to retain ownership and no limits on transfer-ability of the physical trophy.

As an aside, I think "Trophy" is a particularly apt description for the Slayer, since it's no longer a functional Sword in any real way.

People are confusing disdain for and disappointment with the physical object itself, with lack of respect for the actual competition. I fully expect Karol will rock along to other GD's with similarly beautiful entries.
You don't put hundreds of hours of effort (not to mention the considerable financial investment/risk that goes with that time if you're pro) into a competition piece without some investment in the institute of the competition itself.

Are we still discussing this? He won a prize for painting a toy soldier. Who cares if he wants to sell it?

 Kaldor wrote:
It's his, he can sell it if e wants. Why on earth would it be an issue?

Im guessing that OP holds GW stuff in far too high regard...

silent25 wrote:
Blog post with the sword winners reasoning: http://masterminis.blogspot.de/2012/10/slayer-sword-winner-speaks-out.html

Yup, as mentions, a sword collector who after seeing one, knew he had to get it. The swords use to be made by British company. In 2012, the year this guy won, GW switched to a cheaper outfit in China. Cheap piece of crap.

The old Slayer Sword looks glorious! I bet you could contact the old manufacturer and have them make one for you, albeit at a high price

Yeah, they roll in at about 2 grand.

After reading his blog post, I don't care about this anymore. So he won a trophy and is disappointed because it's not real? He seriously went through all that just get a free sword? What an idiot.

Davylove21 wrote:If you win a Victoria Cross or Medal of Honour and sell it, power to you. You still won the award and not feeling like you need to prove it is only admirable.

Nobby Stiles sold off his World Cup winners medal so that his family could live more comfortably. Nobodies disrespected him for it because it just isn't an issue.

If you win a cheap sword from GW and some idiot wants to pay you hundreds for it, cash in.

To clarify - you do not "win" a medal - you are awarded it for performance/actions. It is wrong to sell these medals. Trophies and other items associated with sports and other non-military service - like the Sword - by all means I agree on that point - it is the person's choice.

Trasvi wrote:

 Davylove21 wrote:
If you win a Victoria Cross or Medal of Honour and sell it, power to you. You still won the award and not feeling like you need to prove it is only admirable.

Nobby Stiles sold off his World Cup winners medal so that his family could live more comfortably. Nobodies disrespected him for it because it just isn't an issue.

If you win a cheap sword from GW and some idiot wants to pay you hundreds for it, cash in.

Going to be a pedant here and point out it is illegal to sell the Medal of Honor.

It is a little disappointing how often people sell things that are supposed to be personal tokens of recognition or honour. I've seen it come up on the news when people sell their Keys to the City or their Order of <X Nation> honours. In the scheme of things, a Slayer Sword is incredibly minor.

Agreed -It is illegal to sell, wear, or manufacture any decorations or medals authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States.

In General. - Whoever knowingly wears, manufactures, or sells any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces, or the ribbon, button, or rosette of any such badge, decoration or medal, or any colorable imitation thereof, except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title (18 United State Code) or imprisoned not more than six months or both.

Title 18 United States Code. Sec. 1001, entitled "Statements or entries generally," June 25, 1948, ch. 45, 62 Stat. 749. Links - http://www.cmohs.org/medal-faq.php ; http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/704 .

mwnciboo wrote:I would say it is fine for him to sell it.

However I can understand the idea from others that this is disgraceful but I think this ideal is slightly misplaced.

If you are Awarded a National Honour from a Country / International Institution / Sovereign then I would say it is a disgrace or some cases Treason to sell or pawn the award. The Medal's I have from my time in the UK Armed forces, have my name on them and Service No, but they are not mine, they are Awarded by the Sovereign and therefore can only be taken off me by the Sovereigns order, I am merely the Custodian. It is technically not an offence (for a Civilian) to sell your Medals although you are selling something that doesn't belong to you, but it is considered bad form and contemptuous to the Crown, many are passed down through generations and they will end up in a collection or sold to collectors.

For example I would consider the following Disgraceful:-

1. Selling the "Congressional Medal of Honor" or similar award you have been given.
2. Selling a "Victoria Cross" or similar award you have been given.
3. Rescinding/ disavowing a "Knighthood/peerage from the Sovereign after being invested".
4. Selling or disavowing a NOBEL prize after accepting it.

As the Slayer Sword isn't anything like any of these examples I would say he is free to do what he likes with it.

mwnciboo wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:


The thing is, with respect to those things that you find disrespectful to sell, if the winner of the medal is in a bad place or selling them helps him family live more comfortably, then more power to them i say.
afterall he is still the winner of X medal, even if he does not have it.

If you are still serving in the military it is an Offence, if you are civilian and do it, you can actually be stripped of the award and have to return the Medal or else you will have to Pay for it. There are precedents for this, but given it is the Crown Courts and Crown Magistrates it is likely you wouldn't get a fair trial and it wouldn't stand up. But Victoria Cross recipients have been stripped of it before:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Victoria_Cross_forfeitures

Just because you received an Award doesn't make it yours, you can be stripped of it, and no longer allowed to have the privilege and entitlements it bestows. Selling something that doesn't strictly belong to you is a considerable problem, especially as possession is 9 tenths of the Law.

Equally many awards come with a Stipend or Monetary Award, stripping of the Award may well require you to pay back the stipend as you have broken the terms of the Award.

With modern Newspapers etc it would be a PR disaster all round, however if we looked after our returning Sailors, Soldiers and Airmen a bit better it wouldn't be much of an issue. As it stands it is likely to get worse over the next 20 years as PTSD manifests.

Anyway OT, selling a sword you get as a trophy for painting little men is a non-issue.

Well put and agreed.

I also thought the amount was 600 not 6000.

I don't think morals come into it - he might not want a big sword lying around (strange fellow).

I would say he's asking too much as it can only really have significance for the winner - personally I don't see why anyone would want to buy it. I'd feel better if he auctioned it off for a charity (at least a % donation to one) but it's his call at the end of the day.

My feeling about it is, He won it he can do what he wants with it.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warhammer-40k-Nurgle-Chaos-Marine-Army-Legitimately-Pro-Painted-Adepticon-2011-/190740586753?pt=Games_US&hash=item2c69066101

This guy won a raffle prize at last years Adepticon and is now selling it.

Ohh or you can get this "Emmy"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dinah-Shore-Original-1957-Emmy-Award-Dinah-Shore-Show-/170916050082?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27cb63f4a2

or you could get an olympic gold medal
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1956-GOLD-MEDAL-OLYMPIC-DIPLOMA-PRESIDENT-CORTINA-D-AMPEZZO-XRARE-/350622617032?pt=US_Olympics_Fan_Shop&hash=item51a2bc8dc8

Its just a cheap wallhanger representing a victory in a hobby painting contest. Thats all.
On the other hand if i was to ebay the sword of my grandgrandfather and his pistols, that would be a shame and disgrace.

Unsubscribed.

I had to sell my 65 Mustang years ago due to paying for my kids college. And I loved that car more than my kids. A lot more. I would be more concerned about the guy buying and claiming he earned it.

Yeah I don't think morals come into it here.

Guy earned a slayer sword, doesn't like it, sells it, no biggie.

Moving this in a slightly different direction, isn't it interesting that many of the Companies that supported Lance Armstrong are actively considering or demanding the money they gave as sponsorship to be returned.

If we were to apply this to the Slayer Sword, what would everyone's opinion be if GW asked for it back? (this a purely hypothetical point I was just curious as the Lance Armstrong case has brought this particular scenario to light). What rights do sponsors have? and is this different if you have been found to be cheating/ illegal? What if you have been found to do something controversial but not illegal? What about things that aren't illegal but are still disgraceful, taking steroids etc . (I've never considered this in any depth)

If he hadn't earned it (ie there was cheating) then recovery of the trophy/prize is acceptable. As he won it fair and square, it's his to do with as he pleases.

What if the Sponsor decided that the selling of a Sword invalidated the entire point of the competition? And therefore wanted it back? I'm playing devils adovcate here, as my position is already laid out above that it's his and he can do what he likes but I am interested to hear of any examples where sponsors of competitions have felt that their prize has been treated in an ungracious manner and have pulled support?

 mwnciboo wrote:
What if the Sponsor decided that the selling of a Sword invalidated the entire point of the competition? And therefore wanted it back? I'm playing devils adovcate here, as my position is already laid out above that it's his and he can do what he likes but I am interested to hear of any examples where sponsors of competitions have felt that their prize has been treated in an ungracious manner and have pulled support?

Perfectly legit to me.

There are plenty of non national/international/military awards which are still considered to be the property of their grantor and not the grantee. (ex. Academy Awards)
However, if this was not in writing or made known in advance of the investiture/awarding, then there are no grounds by which the organization can reclaim the "trophy" as it ceases to be theirs.

Nope, we're not transitioning this very straightforward topic into a bunch of hypothetical situations, interesting or not. Feel free to wander into OT to discuss those.

In the meantime, I think we're done here.