So.... I have successfully avoided Necrons since their new release but over the last 2 weeks I decided to take a stab at em with my IG. Now, in the first two games I completely slaughtered them. However, during this process I noticed several annoying facets of their army design/rules. The primary and all connecting thread was the army's design concept: near complete and sole reliance on special rules for everything! The list is so extensive I would essentially have to re-write their entire codex to list all of their special abilities and how they tie together. The most obvious are "we'll be back," "living metal," their teleportation shenanigans, glancing on 6's with their most common weapon (gause), the Stormlord special character, and crypteks (*sp). All of these abilities presented themselves in the first 2 games but, as I said, it was a slaughter. However, even though it was a veritable slaughter-fest, those rules kept him in the games longer and in the most inexplicably annoying ways (destroyer lord died 4 times and got back up each time, eventually requiring me to assault him with a conscript squad and just disable him from being able to be placed within the the required number of inches of where he died).

The 3rd game was pretty even until I just called it quits due to the level of annoying. Its not that the units themselves are overpowered, its the way their rules fly in the face of expectations at almost every turn. I am sure almost everyone remembers when that one EPIC thing happened that one time in that one game... and it totally saved your butt? Those are the games you remember. The Necrons seems to take those rare once in a blue moon occurrences and make them happen every turn of every game. The other thing is that (showing some of my age here) while in prior editions (3rd for example) you could only use special characters with your opponents permission, in this and the last few editions you can use them willy nilly. That is all fine by me, so long as the characters don't do some too game changing. I am fine with super psycho unstoppable killer guy because he really is able to die if I just shoot him enough. The problem I have is with characters that can change the entire game mechanic at will,e.g., Stormlord. The ability to make an entire turn night-fight (and if you don't make your easy roll you can use a cryptek to re-roll it) gives too much power to one player without the ability for the other player to counter it. I will gladly allow anyone to put a Primarch or whatever on the table, but when a character changes things like whether or not the sun is up.... that is just annoying. While it is true night-fight rules can be countered.... and I did with searchlights, its just annoying. This goes yet again to my thread title; the rule isn't OP its just annoying.

Many game designers of other games have realized that taking too much control away from either player detracts from the enjoyment. After all, who liked early editions of WoW when you could be a sheep for minutes and just keep getting re-sheeped over and over without any real decrease in the time (WoW fixed this a loooong time ago). Giving control of army-wide affecting abilities to a player begins to breach a touchy area. This MAY be ok if there is a way to counter that ability at its heart (some sort of psychic defense that brings the sun back?), and not just fight its side-affects (search lights).

While the Stormlord himself is super annoying, its more than just him. It is the entirety of the army list and its rules design. I don't think many players like playing against an army that has a special ability for every single unit, especially one that negates what damage they were able to get through despite the other army rules that make it extremely hard to do that damage in the first place.

You know what i find anoyying? IG gunlines that dont move the enitre game, for the most part, and just shoot while an army who possesses very few weapons that are beyond range 24" has to move up the board for turns to even get some shots off. God for forbid we make it harder for you to just sit there and pew pew away... Yea necrons, so unfair.

I think you could say this about most armies. Part of 40k is that there are many army-wide affecting special abilities that make each army unique. Many of those are completely not counterable. It has been this way for many years. Necrons have no lock on this, you just encountered them recently.

I hate Necrons too, in my limited experience even when you know all the special rules they have it's still a "gotcha" game going against them. My biggest complaint is MSS and the flying transports that break all the flying transport rules. MSS are so boring, I'd prefer to just have the model removed from play instead of hitting itself and I think everyone knows how frustrating the croissant of doom lists are...

I agree with the initial rant... I lose lots of games but losing to Necrons usually feels like you didn't even get to play the game properly unlike going against all the other armies. "Designed to Tick you Off" is spot on imho.

Honestly I lost allot to necrons as well

My only complaint is that the abilities and units they get are way to cheep to be fair. Something about spam able av13s at low points is just brutal. And unless you’re tailoring your list for high av, generally you won’t be able to do anything. Not to mention the flyers though I haven’t experienced that as much.

They just need a general price adjustment and I think they will be fine. (Though I wish they would adjust that av13 BS quantum shielding [or make it a upgrade that costs a bit])

Everyone has special rules.

The Necrons just have overpowered ones.

I don't necessarily think they are overpowered (which they may be, maybe the lists I faced just didn't seem overpowered). Like I said I slaughtered the first two guys but still found their rules annoying in the process. The 3rd game was pretty uneventful actually. By turn 4 I'd only lost 1 tank, 1 65 points infantry squad, and like 3 guys from a second squad..... like nothing at all for being in turn 4 of a 2000 point game. The annoying thing was that it was turn 4 and I had done just about as little damage to him as he had done to me... and i carry a lot of firepower (2 Vendettas, Manticore, a standard Leman Russ, a Leman Russ executioner (the plasma tank), about 90 infantry, multiple chimeras, etc). I'd get lucky and drop 2 Manticore plates on a bunched up squad and kill a bunch only to have 60% get back up then some nearby vehicle was able to spawn more dudes to replace the ones I had killed. Then, it was night fight so I couldn't target the damn vehicle in the first 2 turns (both vendettas didn't show up till turn 3) while in the mean time he had a squad of warriors teleporting around each turn and some squad of guys with guns like haywire grenades teleporting around as well.

The game essentially went... night fight the every turn (got hopeful when he rolled under on turn 3 but got said again when he got to re-roll with a cryptek... which he said can re-roll a dice every phase....) then I light up a target with search lights and drop tons of pie plates, autocannons, plasma, etc... into a unit except like 1 or 2 guys live then by the start of his turn maybe all but 1 is back (we'll be backs and re-spawns from some vehicle thing). it just continued like that until turn 4 when I decided the game had been going on for 90 minutes and it wasn't even fun cuz nothing was really happening. I was doing enough to keep him off my but that was about it. It was an utter stalemate. Now, I skipped 4th edition but didn't the Necrons 3rd edition codex not allow we'll be back rolls on instant kills (str double the toughness) or from wounds that ignored armor? I can't really remember but when 12 warriors get up after taking a manticore blast to the face... you're left to say "wtf dude"... this is just annoying.

P.S.

To the first response above, my IG are not a gunline and this rant is not about something nefing a gunline's ability. Additionally, this post is not about overpowered special rules. This post is about rules that work in an annoying way. If something is T6 with a 2+ invul and some special rule that allows it to regen wounds... its tough but not annoying. When something can make the entire table subject to night-fighting and you have noway to counter it... that's annoying. When something gets back up turn after turn and you literally have to stand 30 guys over its dead body to keep it from re-spawning, that's annoying.

There is a difference between - tough, competitive, powerful units - and - something that isn't even that powerful but just annoys the hell out of you. The prime example of weak but annoying is the destroyer lord I discussed earlier. The game was effectively over turn 3 but the lord just kept getting back up each turn, would zoom around, die, get up again, die, get up again, etc.... that doesn't even serve a purpose other than to be annoying.... and that is why necrons annoy so many people. I think a lot of players say things like overpowered when they really mean annoying (in reference to necrons) because thats what they are. They aren't necessarily more powerful than any other army, their rules are just designed to work in a manner that pisses off people at a psychological level (e.g., would you be annoyed by having trouble killed 2+ save terminators or by 4+ save necrons that keep getting back up after you do kill them? The first is just a competition of force, the second is an example of head games....)

If nercons didn't have the storm lord, mind shackle scarabs and doom scythes didn't have a nonsense railgun, the codex wouldn't be changed from what it actually is.

So your opponent rolled 12 5+ saves in a roll (or even 4+ with a res orb)? That's just crazy rolling. That happens with every army. Would you post if you played against a Deathwing player and he made 30 2+ saves in a row and complain about how broken terminator armor is?

Necrons have always been an army where you must focus fire them or they will get back up. That's just the way it is.

In the immortal words of Lord Solar Macharius: "Less QQ, more pew pew."

The only way armies can be unique is if they have special rules that are exceptions to the normal base rules.

Necrons represent the faction with hyper advanced technology, to the point where they have mastered the physical universe.

Its quite facinating actually.


And why are you complaining when you are winning? Ok, they have some annoying abilities. Thats what they do. They are immortal space undead that just don't die.

There's a lot about Necrons that's infuriating. Not necessarily because of the fact that it's broken/OP/whatever, but because there's no skill/ability/interactivity involved.

The Stormlord in as an excellent example. As long as he's in the list, you get to have nightfight assured turn 1 and likely turn 2, and get lots of free hits on enemy units that avoid all issues of LoS, Range, targeting restrictions, etc. There's no skill or ability to it, it's just "include stormlord, ensure yourself nightfight and a couple of dead enemy tanks without having to do anything but roll dice at the start of your turn, and your opponent can't do anything about it".

It's stuff like that, hallmarks of Mat Ward books, that isn't just restricted to Necrons, that makes such armies not fun to play. He writes rules like a crazy internet fanboy would, and that's why we get things like Vulkan He'stan, the Stormlord, Draigo, the Sanguinor, AV13 Fast Scouting battle tanks in FA slots, Flyer transports that ignore all the bad things about being a flyer transport, etc.

In direct response, no I would not complain about terminators. They are an example (that I used above) of a unit that is just tough and competitive. If point for point necrons have the exact same effect but achieve it by we'll be back, then yes I will rant. The difference between the two is their annoyance factor. The reason for this is the psychological factor. With terminators you know where you stand when the wounds are caused. If you shoot 4 squads at terminators, deal 7 wounds and he saves 6, you know where you stand. Do the same thing to Necrons and 7 fail their saves but 6 stand back up... its definitely more annoying even though the result is the same. That is the entire point of this post. The way the necron army works is designed in a manner that just pissed players off. It makes them not fun to play against if you constantly feel frustrated. The we'll be back rule is only 1 example of what I am discussing. The ENTIRE book is designed that way.

As an aside, I actually did play against a Deathwing army in 5th edition that made 62 saves in a row (you remember things like that)! I was flabbergasted but nowhere near as annoyed as when Necrons do their shenanigans. My rant was not even aimed at Necron players but rather simply at the way their list is designed to work. Its bad rule writing as games that require 2 players should be designed to be entertaining to both players, not enjoyable to one and infuriating to the other. And while I am stating my opinion in different format than others, which just claim they are overpowered, I believe most of those complaints are actually the result of the Necron annoyance factor and not any really overpowered aspects.

 DKokCommissar wrote:
If you shoot 4 squads at terminators, deal 7 wounds and he haves 6, you know where you stand. Do the same thing to Necrons and 7 fail their saves but 6 stand back up... its definitely more annoying even though the result is the same. That is the entire point of this post. The way the necron army works is designed in a manner that just pissed players off. It makes them not fun to play against if you constantly feel frustrated. The we'll be back rule is only 1 example of what I am discussing. The ENTIRE book is designed that way.

You know exactly where you stand (on average) with Necrons as well, if you do the math:
Put 24 wounds on Terminators, 4 die.
Put 24 wounds on Necrons, 12 die. 4 Get back up if you didn't wipe the squad.

The math isn't difficult. it is a 5+ (or 4+ with wargear) to stand back up. Your examples of 6 of 7 dead necrons standing back up are just unlikely. That's why I brought up 30 2+ saves in a row, it is also very unlikely. Your example is like saying that guardsmen are broken because they made 6 of 7 5+ armor saves. No, the dice were broken in that case, not the rules for the unit.

You say its because you know where you stand with Terminators, but you don't with Necrons?

Well, you obviously know that WBB on 3+ armor is the same as a straight 2+ save(assuming nothing is ignoring any saves)

So how can you be surprised?


Its the same durability through a different mechanic. You simply plan accordingly.

Killing Immortals requires a different strategy then killing Terminators.

The Terminators can get roasted by a Demolisher cannon. The Immortals get their WBB against it. Both have the same durability.

However, the Immortals don't get their WBB if the entire squad is gone. Terminators get their 5+ invuln always.



Part of the fun of this game is applying the proper counter to the right target.

A longer ranged battlecannon will have the same effect on the Immortals as a short ranged Demolisher Cannon, but against Terminators the Battle Cannon is useless.

First of all averages mean nothing in any individual instance. on a D6 averages mean very little unless you plot it out over many many games. That is why you really can't rely on math hammering any individual firefight on one specific turn. Additionally, im not saying any rule in particular is rant worthy. I am saying the entire book is filled with minor annoying rules that, when combined, make the army about as baby poop in your chili.

It's stuff like that, hallmarks of Mat Ward books, that isn't just restricted to Necrons, that makes such armies not fun to play. He writes rules like a crazy internet fanboy would, and that's why we get things like Vulkan He'stan, the Stormlord, Draigo, the Sanguinor, AV13 Fast Scouting battle tanks in FA slots, Flyer transports that ignore all the bad things about being a flyer transport, etc.

Vulkans fine, stormlord is annoying, draigo was only good cause of paladins in 5th, and now they aren't that great, Baal predators were the exact same before Ward got them, the flying one is annoying though.

 DKokCommissar wrote:
First of all averages mean nothing in any individual instance. on a D6 averages mean very little unless you plot it out over many many games. That is why you really can't rely on math hammering any individual firefight on one specific turn.

In that case, I would like to complain about grots. Theoretically, they can take out an entire squad of terminators in one turn for far fewer points.

Additionally, im not saying any rule in particular is rant worthy. I am saying the entire book is filled with minor annoying rules that, when combined, make the army about as baby poop in your chili.

Right, we get your point. And then you bring up examples of extremely unlikely things happening. I can write a rant about how I played against an IG player who hit with every single blast scatter, every single order was received successfully and he rolled 6's on all of his penetration tables. It doesn't make it a good example of why the IG codex is annoying to play against though.

If you just want us to agree that there are a lot of special rules in the Necron codex, sure, you got it.
Am I going to agree that they are annoying because you had a couple games you didn't enjoy and were annoyed? No.

I think the op list people complain about are the "flying circus" ones. And judging by ur comments you didn't come up against one of these luckily

 Zande4 wrote:
I think the op list people complain about are the "flying circus" ones. And judging by ur comments you didn't come up against one of these luckily

Way not to read the thread...

 DKokCommissar wrote:
First of all averages mean nothing in any individual instance.

The average results have meaning as any deviation on an individual instant is just luck. A BS of 3 is a 4+ roll which is a 50% chance, if you hit 3 out of 10 or 7 out of 10 is just luck and the nature of dice but it is still a baseline.

Honestly my only other gripe with necrons is that they literally get all the toys at the greatest discount. (stormsheild jump pack cc monsters that go through walls? or av 13 heavy support with decent guns for under 100?) They basically have every option to take with almost no drawbacks whether that doesn’t have to make them op but that does mean there codex isn’t very balanced
wethere that dosnt have to make them op but that does meen there codex isnt very balanced.

Those specific examples are just things I have experienced/seen happen. The point of my thread is simply that there are a lot of special rules in the Necron codex and that some of them just seem to be annoying.... I was giving some specific pointed examples because that conveys the message better, most of the time. The simple point is that whereas some armies have 1 or 2 rules that are powerful and seemingly easy to use, Necrons have many. The prime example was mentioned by another poster earlier, the Stormlord. You don't have to do anything with him other than pay points and you can ensure night fight for turn one and probably for turns 2-3 (and this ability completely screws shooty armies). Additionally, all he has to do is stand back and pick his nose while lightning strikes blasts a few vehicles and infantry. There is no skill, no strategy, no cunning, you just pay the points and boom. Perhaps I hate the Stormlord more than some because I run alot of units so the lightning has a better chance of blasting something and I am shooty so night fight hurts even more. Additionally, while crypteks ability to rerolls a dice from the unit he is in each "phase" is not annoying it self, but when combined with the fact that it allows people to reroll their occasional failed rolls to cast the annoying abilities, then the cryptek becomes part of that annoying shceme. I am sorry but Necrons are not like any other army in the way they play. Yes they are unique, but that unique feel is annoying. Sorry if you play them, like them, or even enjoy fighting against them. I think their abilities are annoying and do not fit well into the design mechanics of this game. That is my opinion and I simply wanted to state it. I find every other army in this game to be fun and challenging but Necrons just don't seem to fit in.

Yes I know standard deviation from the baseline blah blah on averages. I have just come to not count on averages as those "deviations" always seem to come at the worst time. I generally blast a unit until it is dead then move to the next target. Trying to plan out your shooting based on averages will not accomplish your goals because deviations will always occur. Averages are averages because they "average" out over many many many many rolls.

*One issue with needing to kill every necron in a unit is that shots don't carry through to models out of LOS. The necron players at my store manage to do this very well and I have seen it happen more often than not. 1 Necron stands behind a building, rock, whatever out of sight - the unit gets blasted but he lives as he is out of LOS. Next turn, they all get to try to come back.

 DKokCommissar wrote:

*One issue with needing to kill every necron in a unit is that shots don't carry through to models out of LOS. The necron players at my store manage to do this very well and I have seen it happen more often than not. 1 Necron stands behind a building, rock, whatever out of sight - the unit gets blasted but he lives as he is out of LOS. Next turn, they all get to try to come back.

Im not going to lie that is smart play and he is being rewarded for doing so. though your playing IG, assault quickly fixes that issue unless they are runing wrathes but thats a whole nother kettle of fish. he is playing to his advantages but if he is doing what i think he is doing he will be moving very slowlly through the battle field which should give you enough time to manuver around but this is all hypothetical though.

This thread is heading in a bad direction just like other QQ threads before it.

I had a friend QQ about Necrons and everyone just told him to man up. I suggest you do the same.

I never QQ'ed about the results or the effects of the Necron list. I just stated that the manner in which it accomplishes those objectives, the designed mechanics, leaves something to be desired insofar as equal enjoyment by both players in what is necessarily a multiplayer game. I think the overall army list is on par with almost every other codex (some really old ones excluded). I just don't like the feel it gives to me as an opposing player. It just doesn't lend itself to enjoyable play for the opposing party - at least not in my case.

I don't follow your reasoning.

You can beat the Necrons, yet you find their style of play sucks the fun away from your enjoyment?


It certaintly can't be because they are a boring opponent. As you mention all the convoluted things they do.

I'm just not seeing how what you are saying makes any sense.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/484235.page

End of discussion...

Edited by AgeOfEgos

 Monasou wrote:

Edited by AgeOfEgos

Aware.

Annoying might not be the right word, but the special rules do abound. SW Rune Priests can cast lightning at one unit at a time, the Necron HQ just casts lightning at everything. Many armies have dedicated AT weapons, Necrons have basic weapons that work for AT too. Rare heroes like Commissar Yarrick and St. Celestine can get back up after being knocked down, every single Necron can.

Someone tried so hard to make them special that they just seem cheap.

I find the fact that entire infantry platoons (including vehicles) are outflanked as a single unit annoying. Orders are annoying -FRFSRF makes you roll 150 dice with that blob squad. Even if they don't do anything with those flashlights it takes forever to figure that out. You don't have to roll Look Out, Sir! for the command squad - it automatically works. There's no skill involved! On top of the LD10 for every unit within 6" of a Commisar. Tack on the best AA unit in the game for horrendously cheap, Weaken Resolve...

All those special rules are just annoying.
(See what I did there?)

 Monasou wrote:
Edited by AgeOfEgos

Probably missed some wisdom from the Deny the Switch guy...

I hate playing armies that seem to have 7000 special rules. After a while, it feels like somwone is just making stuff up. Its especially difficult when new players encounter them. It can feel a bit daunting.

So.... Your crazy massive gun line that uses the most powerful units in your codex couldn't table a necron army in 4 turns?

Cry me a river. Seriously. IG armies have some of the most powerful units in the game, including flier transports with hover mode and 3 twin linked lazcannons.... Long range firepower that most armies can't even get in the heavy slots, but you get em as troops. Special weapons, orders, tons of av 14 armor, and you whine about crons?

Please.

Yea necrons have fliers as troop transports. But they pack str 7 ap - weapon, armor 11, and no hover mode. The heavy support version is close to 200 pts. What's your vendetta cost?

Storm lord is one character, and is the most expensive character in the dex. Huge points investment for a guy who can't CC and might do some lightning damage ( more Likley with big armies like imperial - .... Huh go figure)

Res orbs and getting back up is tough to deal with. But it's only 50% odds, and only if you pay the 60pts per squad for The Lord and orb. Wipe the unit, and it doesn't matter either way. Unit gone means no rp. (Ever living yes, but that's only characters and crypteks)

MSS is a kick in the teeth to some. But then realize the guy using them has 3 attacks at most, 4 on the charge, init 2-3 usually 2 and ws4. It's also random. Charge a mss lord with a bunch of infantry and a beat stick or 2... The mss gets a grunt oh no! Then your best sticks crump him. Throw a single char at The Lord and of course you'll loose. Easy way around mss is lots of grunts with 2 or more best sticks. Refuse challenges loose 1 beat sick, then rape him before he can touch you.

I am tired of people who play an army, and fight a new one, can't beat it because they themselves can't adapt, and the result is a cry of cheese, and annoyed, and, omg OP!

The necrons have tricks. Yes. They also have a ton of special rules. But those are there to allow a fighting chance against cheesy armies like imperial guard gun line and vendetta armies.

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT.

You mean they have to roll to get those extra turns of nightfighting?!?!??!

Oh, those Necron players are going to have hell to pay. They've been saying that they get the nightfighting automatically.

The night that I bring 400 guardsmen to a normal game is about to be upon us.

Although to be honest, you can say this of pretty much any army. I'm still amazed at how many people bust a blood vessel over orders for IG, when there are far scarier things in our codex, but hey there you go. Nobody can deny us orders, and you can't exactly use deny the witch when my 6 leman russ battle tanks are casting battlecannon every turn

Spetulhu wrote:
Annoying might not be the right word, but the special rules do abound. SW Rune Priests can cast lightning at one unit at a time, the Necron HQ just casts lightning at everything. Many armies have dedicated AT weapons, Necrons have basic weapons that work for AT too. Rare heroes like Commissar Yarrick and St. Celestine can get back up after being knocked down, every single Necron can.

Someone tried so hard to make them special that they just seem cheap.

Rune priests can instantly kill everything in the nid arsenal with JOTWW, and has the second best anti psyker hood in the game, necrons have very expensive transports to get those basic weapons into combat and other very expensive vehicles. Necrons have always had that, even before Celestine and Yarrick (Hint, Yarrick didn't have it before 5th edition, and Witch hunters came out a year after necrons) could. Before 4th/5th not many aside from necrons could revive, if at all. It's mostly seen after 4th for anything non-necron.

An IG army player is complaining about Necrons? Uhm...the same army that can spam pie plates on AV 14 tanks? The same army with the currently most overpowered flyer in the game?

Necron USR tick you off? How about those 3+ cover saves Leman Russ? The 3 twin-linked lascannons on a flyer? The ability to spam vehicles due to vehicle squads? I can't use a single slot to bring 3 vehicles to the battlefield. Your enemy rolling 100+ dice for his shooting blobs that get a 2+ cover save?

Those are things that annoy me as someone who plays a very fair and balanced Necron list. Nobody doubts that Scythe spam is overpowered, but tbh, you only roll that list if you really need to compensate...scythe-spam, however, is a joke compared to Vendettta-spam. 'cause that's just ridicolous.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT.

You mean they have to roll to get those extra turns of nightfighting?!?!??!

Oh, those Necron players are going to have hell to pay. They've been saying that they get the nightfighting automatically.

Just to clarify you get Nightfighting automatically on the first turn. Each subsequent turn the Necron Player needs to roll greater then the current turn number. So on turn 2 it's a 3+ turn 3 4+ etc. A Chronometron equipped Cryptek in the same squad as the Stormlord will give you rerolls.

But yeah if they've been saying automatic NF on for every turn until Imotek dies then you're being cheated.

As a necron player do you know what ticks me off? Drop pods. unless it goes off the table it is landing perfectly safe unlike my monolith which has an even bigger foot print. Oh hey a grot got in the way, we'll blow up now. Oh hey I got assaulted! Yay one guy didn't manage to hit me but the rest of the squad wiped me out.

MSS is easy to counter, just bring more bodies and don't attack a squad with it with just one guy (love when MC's charges alone) and don't stick your biggest guys against it.

WBB isn't as common as you think and if an ark is bringing them back kill that first, the first pen makes it AV 11 / 11 / 11.

Stormlord is not that common, we don't have night vision too and I'd rather have a surf lord running around the map then him in a corner.

Fliers are easy to kill with sky fire and last I've looked only our fliers have that ability.

Yes the royal court has a lot of rules, but that is where 90% of our special rules are hidden and that gets to be a pain since every D-Tek I get to improve my warriors threat abilitiy means one less fun one I can bring, not even counting that I can't even equip more then 1 per HQ with the same gear so I can't have veil or some other fun ability on all of them.

EDIT: Also with night fight almost every game mode has a 1st turn NF on 4+ already (and if that failed NF on turn 5/6/7 on a 4+), not to mention the commander ability to make it night fight as well on first turn.

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT.

You mean they have to roll to get those extra turns of nightfighting?!?!??!

Oh, those Necron players are going to have hell to pay. They've been saying that they get the nightfighting automatically.

Just to clarify you get Nightfighting automatically on the first turn. Each subsequent turn the Necron Player needs to roll greater then the current turn number. So on turn 2 it's a 3+ turn 3 4+ etc. A Chronometron equipped Cryptek in the same squad as the Stormlord will give you rerolls.

But yeah if they've been saying automatic NF on for every turn until Imotek dies then you're being cheated.

Yep thats what its been. To be fair, the necron special rules dont really bug me, it's just that we have a local guy who plays them that is a jerk. Since he's apparently lied about this, it makes me wonder what else he's left out... to be honest, night scythes aren't that scary to me, as everything I have is either a guardsman or av 14, and most of their other units arent that scary either.

The only army that really bugs me is space wolves, and thats mainly just because of rune priests and that they're the biggest middle finger you could give blob guard last edition, and over half my club ran dual wolf priest space wolf lists. It just got to the point where I didnt even want to unpack my army. Nothing else has ever made me feel that frustrated.

Also, I find it hilarious that Ig and necron players are both whining about the other. We're considered the two most powerful codexes right now, we're both OP if we feel like it. Trying to say the other guy is the bigger offender is very much calling the pot calling the ketle black. And thats without even getting into the fact that just because someone plays IG/necrons doesnt mean they're bringin a cheesy list. Attacking a guy just because of the codex he picked is very childish. I mean, I hate space wolves with a white hot fury of a thousand suns, but i would never belittle an opponent for choosing that army.

All these biased Necron players just need to stop posting in this forum. Seriously, what are you trying to achieve?

Let me get this straight...
You're a Necron player browsing the forum. You see a thread that is OBVIOUSLY a rant about Necrons, it even says so in the title.
So you click it....why?
You didn't come into this post to read up on someone's opinions of your army.
You came in here just to talk trash and try and make yourself seem better than the OP.
Seriously, get a life, and if you play Crons, don't post in Cron-hate threads.

And seriously, enough with the "quit crying, get over it" attitude, that's the worst garbage ever. Everyone, yes, even you, knows that Necrons are a little over the top in 6th edition. The same way people were upset with Grey Knights last edition. The only people saying that are Necron players anyways. If you play an army other than Crons, chances are, you freaking hate Crons right now. Everyone is feeling it. Telling other people to "man up" is actually making you the minority in the situation, and it's not a real solution, and you're only making yourself look like an ass by trying to be a tough guy on the internet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failure).

And seriously, enough with the "quit crying, get over it" attitude, that's the worst garbage ever. Everyone, yes, even you, knows that Necrons are a little over the top in 6th edition.

You came in here just to talk trash and try and make yourself seem better than the OP.
Seriously, get a life, and if you play Crons, don't post in Cron-hate threads.

Really now, being hypocritical in the same post is a bit much don't you think.

Necrons are currently the strongest army in 40k The codex has multple, extremely underpriced units: Wraiths, Annihilation Barges, Night scythes to name just a few. For example, Tesla Destructors are equivalent to 3 Autocannons (except for AP), something that Necron players never seem to talk about.

Basically all Necron special rules synergize perfectly with 6e rule changes.

Are Necrons OP? Well, no more than GK were in 5e.

How exactly was I being hypocritical? I didn't come to this thread with the intent to badmouth people.

That's just how I felt after reading all the Cron players posts in these threads, and then my mind wanted to explode after trying to figure out the reason they clicked the link to the thread in the first place.

 UberhAxTHC wrote:
How exactly was I being hypocritical? I didn't come to this thread with the intent to badmouth people.

That's just how I felt after reading all the Cron players posts in these threads, and then my mind wanted to explode after trying to figure out the reason they clicked the link to the thread in the first place.

People are allowed to freely come in to any post there is on this forum, not to mention make their case be heard if they felt like it so long as they are not flaming or insulting. It's a forum, not a private posting place for patronizing personal problems.

Telling others to GTFO cause you don't like to read their opinions on the matter, but at the same time insulting them is rather hypocritical, while attempting to use the same argument style you are complaining about.

Why don't you try staying on topic instead of targeting me due to your insane boredom?

In fact, this whole thread needs to stay on topic. Like 90% of the posts in here are complaining about Imperial Guard. How did THAT happen?

 UberhAxTHC wrote:
Why don't you try staying on topic instead of targeting me due to your insane boredom?

In fact, this whole thread needs to stay on topic. Like 90% of the posts in here are complaining about Imperial Guard. How did THAT happen?

You should probably start by taking your own advice, and contributing something to the discussion instead of whining.


Anyway, Necrons having a lot of special rules to keep up with, is just part of the game. I can understand some of the frustrations being vented, Necrons were pretty much a hard counter to IG in 5th, and the situation has mostly remained the same into 6th.

One of the key things is making sure that you understand the enemies rules. Just like earlier when someone mentioned that Necron players may have cheated him with the Stormlord's rules, you should make sure they are following their rules correctly.

Learning how to best circumvent or remove Necron special rules when you can, will be key to winning.

Addressing that the topic is running off course isn't whining.

 UberhAxTHC wrote:
Addressing that the topic is running off course isn't whining.

et me get this straight...
You're a Necron player browsing the forum. You see a thread that is OBVIOUSLY a rant about Necrons, it even says so in the title.
So you click it....why?
You didn't come into this post to read up on someone's opinions of your army.
You came in here just to talk trash and try and make yourself seem better than the OP.
Seriously, get a life, and if you play Crons, don't post in Cron-hate threads.

This is whining, and has added nothing to the discussion, except causing the thread to further drift off topic.

 Sasori wrote:

 UberhAxTHC wrote:
Addressing that the topic is running off course isn't whining.

et me get this straight...
You're a Necron player browsing the forum. You see a thread that is OBVIOUSLY a rant about Necrons, it even says so in the title.
So you click it....why?
You didn't come into this post to read up on someone's opinions of your army.
You came in here just to talk trash and try and make yourself seem better than the OP.
Seriously, get a life, and if you play Crons, don't post in Cron-hate threads.

This is whining, and has added nothing to the discussion, except causing the thread to further drift off topic.

This is whining about whining, and has added nothing to the discussion, except causing the thread to further drift off topic.

Wow sometimes I wonder if people can even read.

OP: Necrons - NOT OP
Thread: grow the feth up OP, necrons aren't op you play guard ffs cry me a river and take some more battlecannons

Fact is, there's some special abilities that are really in a class for themselves in that they just impose flat restrictions on your opponent's army. Things like stormlord's lightning and nightfight, eldar warding runes and IG fleet officer. Personally I like a challenge but I can definitely see why people find these lame.

Edit: I also agree with uberhax, you guys are just wasting postspace.

 UberhAxTHC wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 UberhAxTHC wrote:
Addressing that the topic is running off course isn't whining.

et me get this straight...
You're a Necron player browsing the forum. You see a thread that is OBVIOUSLY a rant about Necrons, it even says so in the title.
So you click it....why?
You didn't come into this post to read up on someone's opinions of your army.
You came in here just to talk trash and try and make yourself seem better than the OP.
Seriously, get a life, and if you play Crons, don't post in Cron-hate threads.

This is whining, and has added nothing to the discussion, except causing the thread to further drift off topic.

This is whining about whining, and has added nothing to the discussion, except causing the thread to further drift off topic.

Okay, getting back on topic after this..little discussion started by you.

Edit: I also agree with uberhax, you guys are just wasting postspace.

Yet he's continuing it after he started it. Funnily enough.

Necrons have issues, but they are about where GK we're in 5th.

They have some mid to op range units, but their special rules also make them who they are.

back on topic please folks.

 Sasori wrote:

One of the key things is making sure that you understand the enemies rules. Just like earlier when someone mentioned that Necron players may have cheated him with the Stormlord's rules, you should make sure they are following their rules correctly.

Must agree here as well. I've learned the hard way with crons, eldar, tau etc that if you don't sit down and grasp their filthy xenos rules, you're going to get bamboozled.

I think this is a big part of the internet whine problem, people actually don't know that many of the rules they complain about are about half as good as they think.

That's what I find annoying, complicated rules.

That GK list looks like what he's been running since 5th.
New edition, lists need to change.
Searchlights are essentially mandatory now, what with Solar Pulses and games between non-cron armies having Night Fighting for at least one turn.

Why does it feel "beardy" (which I assume is a bad thing) to counter a, by your own words, annoying ability?

For the record, I'm not a Necron player.

@OP
Honestly, the only real issue I have with Necrons is that it's my best friend's first and only army, and I've gotten so used to their autoglance on 6 that I never bother with vehicles, save the occaisonal Rhino to get my Mehreens someplace decent before it gets wrecked.
Now, with the new Chaos codex, I have some better support against his air force lists, as I always take a Havoc squad with at least 1-2 Flakk missiles or a Heldrake that I use as either a Hades for fliers or Baleflamer for infantry (Also S7 vector strike, woot!). 5++ and IWND gives it some survivability against his shots, as he needs a 6 and 6 to damage it, but I'm still apprehensive towards fielding it.

Also, I've sat down and read his codex cover to cover a few times, so I'm at least familiar with the possible cheese of his army. He usually tells me his plans for his next list so I can at least prepare some counter units (My Dad Can Beat Your Dad), but if I was up against a random guy with Necrons I'd be pretty wary about the abilities he gets.

And Necron allies are a LOT of fun

 pretre wrote:
So your opponent rolled 12 5+ saves in a roll (or even 4+ with a res orb)? That's just crazy rolling. That happens with every army. Would you post if you played against a Deathwing player and he made 30 2+ saves in a row and complain about how broken terminator armor is?

Necrons have always been an army where you must focus fire them or they will get back up. That's just the way it is.

In the immortal words of Lord Solar Macharius: "Less QQ, more pew pew."

Yeah welcome to my life were everyone tells me how broken my Deathwing list is. (hint: i don't use all stormshields).

Yes they have some annoying mechanics but everything in the necrons codex has a weakness. So storm lord makes it night fighting put a marbo near him and destroy him. SO MSS is a pain (there is no way around it.) Just focus on levling them one squad at a time and remember to roll your precision shot sergeants seperate so they can cap the cryptek from range. Problem solved.

Yes necrons break a lot of basics rules of the game but these are initiative two dudes cut them down.

I would rate Necrons as one of the top armies right now. they have a number of units that leap out at you as 'must take' and their troops are resilient, and that resilience can be enhanced, and a lot of the units benefit from some quite nice special rules.
the units often regarded as overpowered i don't think are, i think undercosted is a more apt description, but there are units in other armies that are the same, Vendettas and grey hunters are the ones that leap out at me.

The great thing about the necron codex (from a necron perspective) is that there are far and away more options than there used to be. Oldcrons had a very limited number of viable forces they could take, but newcrons have immense flexibility, and the abilities of one unit can enhance abilities of others. This affords me as a Necron player (since 2nd ed) far more freedom in picking an effective, and unique army.

The bad thing about these special rules (from an inferior species perspective) is that if you are unfamiliar with them, it can seem the necrons can pull off some truly rediculous (totally OP!!) antics. Necron warrior blobs regenerating after being almost annihilated due to ghost arks is a good example. MSS helping an overlord kill the swarmlord 1v1 would be another. but then this bad thing can also be attributed to any army you come up against if you aren't familiar with them, and most units have special rules attributed to them, either literally through special rules, or more generally through universal special rules and wargear. the variations 2 different lists can have is truly staggering, even from the same codex.

the fact is, unless you understand an army, you will always be at a dissadvantage when playing against it. if you have played against an army enough, or are familiar with the codex, you can be prepared for any suprises when they show up, and be able to predict what those suprises might be.

now, to respond to an earlier point about night fight and the stormlord. you get auto night fight turn 1, and you can try to keep it in effect every turn, and use a chronotek to get re-rolls. Necrons also have the 'solar pulse' which can be used to either cancel NF for a single turn, or to bring it into effect (but the stormlords lightning won't work if nightfighting is in effect this way)
You also should not be afraid of asking your opponent to show you the relevant rule in their codex if you are unsure about it, most players will be more than happy to show you, and its also a good way to get to know an army if you don't own the codex yourself

I don't feel they are OP, but I understand (somewhat) the OPs frustration with WBB. Especially since we (I've been a 'Cron player since their original debut in WD) lost the phase out rule.

Basically all Necron special rules synergize perfectly with 6e rule changes.

I think that's the real crux of the issue. The new dex was CLEARLY written with 6th ed in mind. The crons aren't op (Flying circus not withstanding - I'm more of a silver tide guy), they just use the new 6th ed rules more efficiently than most. I figured once the other books got updated we would go back to being kind of middle of the pack. I think the issue here though is that the new Chaos dex does NOT feel like it was written for 6th quite as well so the Necrons now stand out that much more. It will be interesting to see what happens with the next few books.

that's definitely part of the issue, necrons very clearly were written to take advantage of, and mitigate the issues with, the 6E ruleset, to the hilt (HP's, flyer transports not killing occupants, lots of nightfight and NF related abilities, etc). The Chaos book on the other hand basically just got a cut/paste Fantasy mechanics and a couple of 6E USR's and otherwise is largely indistinguishable from a 4E or 5E book.

 Desubot wrote:
They just need a general price adjustment and I think they will be fine. (Though I wish they would adjust that av13 BS quantum shielding [or make it a upgrade that costs a bit])

So they should be good to go in a few years when they get a new codex? Awesome.

Nercons as a whole aren't over powered, but when you start doing stupid things with your list, such has maxing out on fliers, it then becomes overpowered.

Minus MSS (which isn't that random in challenges) and the flier spam, it's a really good book. People should stop spamming wraiths, since there are better options, but otherwise it's a good book with lots of good choices for each FOS.

It's the nature of the game.

3rd - Necrons OP
4th - Pretty balanced
5th - Worst army in the game, maybe GK (Demonhunters) was worse through most of 5th.
6th - OP

They've probably a wider swing through the power scale than most, but every army goes through this...and every edition has it's over the top armies. If you are in it for the long term, you just have to get used to the fact that there will always be that army that is over the top, and it might be yours one day (which when you get there, you'll probably find it's not all it's cracked up to be) and there is always that army on the bottom of the dog pile, and you'll probably spend some time there as well....none of which has much to do with the OP.

To answer the OP, I've never found a particular army annoying or unfun to play based on special rules in an of themselves. The armies that I don't really enjoy playing against are the ones that just seem to have a relatively cheap answer for everything without glaring weaknesses or an Achilles's heel of their own (5th ed SW would be a good example).

3rd - Necrons OP
4th - Pretty balanced
5th - Worst army in the game, maybe GK (Demonhunters) was worse through most of 5th.
6th - OP

I just can't agree with most of that. If there was ever a time where they were legitmately OP it was probably when they first came out in second ed. They had very few options, but they were just so tough and not many armies had the means to deal with them effectively. I found them to be middle of the pack in third since all you had to do was kill enough of them and they would phase out and lose the game. There were also not many options. You tended to have very predictable lists. Didn't play at all in fourth and only played them a little in 5th. Before the new dex it was definitely a challenge to play with them. Their original dex didn't really fit with what 5th ed was all about.

As far as this edition goes, the biggest things I see complained about are the WBB rule and the flying circus. IMO as the OP stated WBB can certainly be irritating at times but it hardly makes them OP. As for the flying circus, it's tough, but no worse than playing a Guard player spamming Vendetta squadrons. Yet I don't see many people complaining that IG is OP ...

The 4th ed necron codex was meh in 5th, while the 5th ed codex was pretty good in 5th, but now all the sudden fliers made one nercon list top class in 6th.

Well be back or reanimate hardly makes the army OP, that's like saying any army with an army wide special rule makes it op, with the exception of space wolves and counter attack, of course.

I've read most of this thread and just had to skip to the bottom to give my 2 cents. I do play Necrons and they do have some cheesey rules but as what I read earlier in the thread.... Special rules is what adds that little bit of something to the army; and plus it makes it feel like you're playing that army, wouldnt you hate to read a SM novel that talks about how awesome SM are and when you bring them to the board and their know no fear that you've read about just doesnt exist, or orks that arnt good in CC even those SM can be scared of them when a horde rushes in.

I play a lot of Tau and GK at my FLGS and boy do I dislike playing them. They are filled with all sorts of goodies that make it a pain to win... and 95% of the time I lose. My advice to OP is to just suck it up... It's a game so just have fun with it. But if you cant get over it stop playing against necron players for good.

It's not really about them being OP or "flavor", it's about simply flaunting so many game mechanics. when all you need to do is just show up with one guy in your list and are likely assured protection from most enemy shooting and a couple vehicle kills without doing anything other than just showing up to the board, that's a bit silly.

Necrons aren't alone in having undercosted units, overpowered or just annoying abilitiles. But they are probably the worst offender, at least with respect to stuff that's annoying/ignores core mechanics/etc.

Just my 2 cents, but to me, its not any one specific Necron unit that is infuriating or OP, its the fact that every single unit has something that breaks established rules, and very few of those special rules are USRs. And when many units get multiple Necron special rules and USRs, it just starts to feel like piling on.

For example, Destroyers have Preferred Enemy (Everything)....why? Based on the fluff, Destroyers should probably have Hatred (Everything), instead of Preferred Enemy. Preferred Enemy would indicate the unit are veterans of several wars against a specific race, army, etc, something that Destroyers really aren't passed off as. Its not enough that Destroyers are T5 jump troops with S5 AP3 Assault 2 Gauss weapons, Reanimation Protocol, and a decent stat line, but they also have to have Preferred Enemy too????

Deathmarks are another example. They have all the standard scout/sniper abilities such as Infiltrate and Sniper, but they also get a slew of other rules, such as Deepstrike, a rule that allows them to wound a selected target unit on 2+, a Nightscythe transport option, and the normal decent statline and Reanimation Protocols available to most Necron units. But the final straw, their sniper rifles, while agreed are shorter ranged than most snipers, are Rapid Fire. Rapid Fire sniper rifles.....Really? Oh, and they can put any IC in there with them and they gain the benefit of the targeting rule.

There are certain standard rule/points configurations that most armies adhere to, but the Necrons will have none of it. Normally, I wouldn't mind, but it gets kind of hard to not get irritated when I get reminded of yet another crazy special rule only Necrons get that completely invalidates a third of my army, or negates a grand tactical move. Nothing against Necron players, they are just using the rules they are given, but to try and act as if those rules are no more OP than any other is a bit much.

Ahhh, but Hatred is only in melee. Preferred Enemy is at range and melee. They needed to make it useful.

Plus being machines, having an intense loathing of life would simply translate into hyper accurate fire.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

Deathmarks are another example. They have all the standard scout/sniper abilities such as Infiltrate and Sniper, but they also get a slew of other rules, such as Deepstrike, a rule that allows them to wound a selected target unit on 2+, a Nightscythe transport option, and the normal decent statline and Reanimation Protocols available to most Necron units. But the final straw, their sniper rifles, while agreed are shorter ranged than most snipers, are Rapid Fire. Rapid Fire sniper rifles.....Really? Oh, and they can put any IC in there with them and they gain the benefit of the targeting rule.

I don't really see what's flawed about assassins that appear anywhere they want and have an ability that allows them to...assassinate stuff? Then again, fluff should not really be taken into consideration when it comes to making rules. Else Necrons would be *ridiculously* overpowered.

Synaptic Disintegrators aren't sniper rifles. They are closer to battle rifles, really.

The Sniper rule does not make that weapon a sniper rifle. By your logic, the Vindicare's exitus pistol would be a sniper rifle.

Deathmarks can't infiltrate either. No idea what gave you that idea, but its not one of their special rules. They can only deepstrike, take a 100 point flying transport, walk, or deep strike on your opponent's turn (which is useless).
No infiltration.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
There are certain standard rule/points configurations that most armies adhere to, but the Necrons will have none of it. Normally, I wouldn't mind, but it gets kind of hard to not get irritated when I get reminded of yet another crazy special rule only Necrons get that completely invalidates a third of my army, or negates a grand tactical move. Nothing against Necron players, they are just using the rules they are given, but to try and act as if those rules are no more OP than any other is a bit much.

People keep saying this but I can't help but disagree.
Every codex does something that invalidates certain builds/makes them far less effective.

The big annoyance with deathmarks is anything that is a "deployment/redeployment" allowing them to mark another unit.

 Vaktathi wrote:
The big annoyance with deathmarks is anything that is a "deployment/redeployment" allowing them to mark another unit.

The biggest issue is that their ability works on crypteks joining them, I wouldn't mind them so much if it wasn't for that flamertek.

Necrons suffer the same thing as a lot of Matt Ward codexs and that is, regardless of cheese or not, most of his books are just unfun to play against. Lots of special rules, lots of special this that and the other. But most annoyingly is the large amount of stuff that just breaks the idea of an even fair game because it just happens and no amount of planning, trickery, stratigy, baiting, etc. can be used to counter it, and that makes the other guy wonder why they even bothered to show up.

Necrons suffer the same thing as a lot of Matt Ward codexs and that is, regardless of cheese or not, most of his books are just unfun to play against. Lots of special rules, lots of special this that and the other. But most annoyingly is the large amount of stuff that just breaks the idea of an even fair game because it just happens and no amount of planning, trickery, stratigy, baiting, etc. can be used to counter it, and that makes the other guy wonder why they even bothered to show up.

People keep saying that, but I have yet to see anyone show one single example of something that causes the Necrons to be so OP that you shouldn't even bother to play. Can you give me a specific example? That's a serious question. Noo sarcasm intended. Also, before you go there, no, flying circus is not a good example. The IG can do the same thing with Vendettas and actually do it better but as I said before, no one is complaining about IG being OP. Since the complaint seems to be "Necrons have X thing/rule/unit, etc that no one else has" they are OP and auto win. I have yet to see someone post an actual specific example of this. Examples have been given of things people find irritating or difficult to face, but every army has that. Even the original post in this thread the OP admitted that while he found them annoying to a degree, he did not find them to be overpowered ...

Tycho wrote:

Necrons suffer the same thing as a lot of Matt Ward codexs and that is, regardless of cheese or not, most of his books are just unfun to play against. Lots of special rules, lots of special this that and the other. But most annoyingly is the large amount of stuff that just breaks the idea of an even fair game because it just happens and no amount of planning, trickery, stratigy, baiting, etc. can be used to counter it, and that makes the other guy wonder why they even bothered to show up.

People keep saying that, but I have yet to see anyone show one single example of something that causes the Necrons to be so OP that you shouldn't even bother to play. Can you give me a specific example? That's a serious question. Noo sarcasm intended. Also, before you go there, no, flying circus is not a good example. The IG can do the same thing with Vendettas and actually do it better but as I said before, no one is complaining about IG being OP. Since the complaint seems to be "Necrons have X thing/rule/unit, etc that no one else has" they are OP and auto win. I have yet to see someone post an actual specific example of this. Examples have been given of things people find irritating or difficult to face, but every army has that. Even the original post in this thread the OP admitted that while he found them annoying to a degree, he did not find them to be overpowered ...

Your confusing unfun with overpowered, or at least how I have it presented.

Dante causes 75 points of distruption to Logan's stat line just by being included in the army list (doesn't even have to be on the table)... unfun.
MSS causes Lillith to attack herself more than 50% of the time... unfun.
Lightning shield IDs nob squads just because they chose to assault (the one thing they are supposed to do). Again unfun.
Purifiers vs any sort of horde... unfun.
psy ammo schewing the damage results from common units/vehicles for negligable points increase... unfun.
a single 50 point model giving 500 points or more of other 3+/2+ save stuff FNP... Generally Unfun.


Now I'm not saying the above codexs can't loose, but when it becomes such an obvious power bubble you sometimes wonder why bother playing. Especially in a casual inviroment.

Tycho wrote:

Necrons suffer the same thing as a lot of Matt Ward codexs and that is, regardless of cheese or not, most of his books are just unfun to play against. Lots of special rules, lots of special this that and the other. But most annoyingly is the large amount of stuff that just breaks the idea of an even fair game because it just happens and no amount of planning, trickery, stratigy, baiting, etc. can be used to counter it, and that makes the other guy wonder why they even bothered to show up.

People keep saying that, but I have yet to see anyone show one single example of something that causes the Necrons to be so OP that you shouldn't even bother to play. Can you give me a specific example? That's a serious question. Noo sarcasm intended. Also, before you go there, no, flying circus is not a good example. The IG can do the same thing with Vendettas and actually do it better but as I said before, no one is complaining about IG being OP. Since the complaint seems to be "Necrons have X thing/rule/unit, etc that no one else has" they are OP and auto win. I have yet to see someone post an actual specific example of this. Examples have been given of things people find irritating or difficult to face, but every army has that. Even the original post in this thread the OP admitted that while he found them annoying to a degree, he did not find them to be overpowered ...

Again, it's not necessarily OP (though can be), it's that it's not fun. When you've got a character that effectively can do D6 S8 hits on side armor from any point on the board without needing LoS, range, etc or even needing to be alive and guarantees you nightfight on your terms, on top of being damn near impossible to kill, there's nothing fun about that, it's a crutch, and simply ignores too many game mechanics and any opponent interaction. Stuff like that is replete to a greater and lesser degree in Mat Ward's books and most exemplified in the Necron codex.

Your confusing unfun with overpowered, or at least how I have it presented.

If I misunderstood where you were coming from then fair enough, but you did actually say:

But most annoyingly is the large amount of stuff that just breaks the idea of an even fair game because it just happens and no amount of planning, trickery, stratigy, baiting, etc. can be used to counter it, and that makes the other guy wonder why they even bothered to show up.

Everything you listed actually CAN be countered (with the possible exception of Dante, but I don't know enough about him and we're talking Necrons anyway).

If you're worried about Lilith VS MSS, why are you letting them get that close? Lilith is really a squad killer anyway. She should be trashing warriors. Use your lance weaponry to kill the MSS lord. Same deal with the Nob squads. If something can ID one of my units in cc, then I tend to keep those units away from each other as much as possible. If the other guy gets to me then it's more than likely that he outplayed me in which case I really only have me to blame.

I do understand your point about fun in a friendly setting though and it's one of the reasons I don't run the 'cron flying circus. While beatable, I do get how it is really not so much fun to play against.

im just sick and tired of people who make a list like your IG parking lot, venomspam, longfangs, drop pods whatever. its your list. it wins. yay!

then ERMAHGERD! the editions change! or an army gets a new codex!

now your list that was winning dosent work so well. in fact it probally sucks. or what used to work on chaos/DE/crons/GK whatever dosent. because they now have a more recent codex and an entirley new way of doing things.

shocks! i cant believe that your old army wont work anymore!

people who complain that X army or X unit is overpowered or cheesy simply DO NOT KNOW HOW to deal with it. they see a special ability or stat line or something, and it beats them. they freak out, and auto assume its OP cheesy cheddar with extra parmesian. PUH-LEEESE. maybe change your army up. maybe change your tatics. maybe change your deployment, target priorites, i dunno, maybe do something called ADAPTING to the new stuff.

i will pose this friendly challange to ANYONE: you say my crons are overpowered vrs your army? fine. post your list. ill point out how it can change to fight crons, (any build or any of my armies) ill make those changes and play you on vassal. you can make any cron list you want, dosent even have to be the one i usually use. (go ahead and bring scythe spam... ill show you how to beat that too) i promise i will either win or fight to a very close draw/loss. by using adaptive tatics, and the lump of tissue in my skull called a brain - wich aparently seems to be lacking in the majority of the internets.

ive done this once already demonstrating how a SM gunline can take care of venomspam in 5th. the game was pretty fun and i did manage a win.

but my point, is PLEASE stop these whine/rant/pissing and moaning threads about armies being OP. instead of wasting your time on these, maybe try a constructive attempt at changing your list and strats to actually fight the necrons?

Did you even read the OP, he utterly crushed the Necrons, he has no issue winning, he' just annoyed.

Seriously, reading goes a long way...

Bobthehero is correct. I absolutely wrecked them the first 2 games and the 3rd was more a draw with very few casulties on either side. I never claimed they necrons were overpowered. I only stated that, in my opinion, they rules don't interact on the table top in a mutually enjoyable manner. When my favorite opponent plays his 3 tervigon 'nid army and is able to go 4 turns without rolling doubles and has produced 100+ guants in addition to the rest of his starting troops... its FUN! When a necron does anything, it just seems agonizingly boring, ill conceived, and ill suited in its execution. I really don't know how to explain it but necrons just seem lame... not overpowered, not anything like that. Just annoying or, rather, lame... not fun, not interesting... playing them is like trying to do your own taxes..... "See column A and multiply that by row 4 to calculate you average......." lame!

wasent 100% directed at the op. mine last response was a general one. and i DID read the first page and half, and its just coming off as whine whine whine...

if you win against an army why be annoyed at it? when i fight an army and get annoyed or whatever and still win, that just makes it a great game. winning through adversity and what not. and really... the necrons "tricks" are only there to even them up to other armies and make them a contender. take away quantum shielding, MSS, WS and the fliers / barges and you may as well play the 3rd ed codex.

QS is there to help a slow army take a few hits and allow them to actually DO something with their short range (while fighting armies with usually twice or more the range power)

MSS is there again, to help mitigate and deal with assault armies that can pack as much as 4 attacks per model on the charge. sometimes more then that on characters. it also helps to offset the whole going last thing.

warscythes are really the only close combat answer the necrons have to anything. yea, its a str 7 ap 1 armor bane, but its usually striking at init 2, compared to powerfists its not that awsome. - but for the necrons it gives them something of an edge in a dual threat. good for infantry and ok for vehicles.

the barges are not that bad. with a tesla cannon and TWL destructor, ok it has 4 twin linked str 7 shots, and another 3 str 6 ... and 6's to hit make more hits.... but AP - means there is little to fear. unless a single unit takes all 3 in the same round and biffs saves. im the first to promote tesla as an awsome weapon.... but when other armies have auto cannons, assault cannons, plasma, melta, and so on, the necrons really have one mid str weapon. and its AP, and usually mounted on a fragile open topped SLOW skimmer, wich only has a 24" range. pretty easy for a lazcannon team to shoot down. or anything for that matter. fliers are the same. aside from the near 200 pt doom sycthe, (wich has a random distance weapon that cant hit fliers) we have a str 7 anti flier shot. thats IT. nothing else in the army can AA very well. (aside from massing snap shots and praying for gauss glances) - vrs IG with the best flier in the game, space marines with pretty close seconds, chaos with a heldrake, and so on. in the battle of the air forces, necrons really come up short. i would bet on 6 storm talon/.ravens to beat 6 night/doom sycthes 100% of the time.

the necrons are not OP...they are not annoying, and they are not broke. they are an army that uses its special rules and abilities to be competetive against other styles. learn what the tricks do, how they work and the rules behind them, and its easy to develop counter strats and develop a list to play against those. im willing to bet 90% of people calling cheese on necrons is because A: they didnt take time to read and learn the rule, or B: the necron player screwed said rule up or cheated with it. (sometimes its both at the same time) - learn the rules, and all the associated brb rules before calling something broke or annoying ot cheesy.

You seem to be missing it again though, you're arguing the trivialities (nobody much cares about the Tesla's AP- any more than anyone cares that an Autocannon has AP4, the AP isn't relevant) instead of addressing the larger issue, which is that people are saying the army isn't fun and essentially removes many of the elements that do make the game fun, as well as simply bypassing/ignoring/mitigating a huge array of game mechanics.

also keep in mind non-TL tesla weapons have functionally an average 1:1 shot-hit ratio, which means on average they're the most reliable and consistent weapons in the game, and twin linked tesla weapons 33% average more shots than they actually are rated as due to higher chances of rolling 6's. For example, a 4 shot BS4 Twin Linked Tesla weapon actually averages 5.33 hits. Thus, it's not quite as clear cut as it might otherwise seem. Nobody is going to shoot 3 shot twin linked heavy bolter and expect to get 4 hits the way one can with tesla weapons

 pretre wrote:

 Zande4 wrote:
I think the op list people complain about are the "flying circus" ones. And judging by ur comments you didn't come up against one of these luckily

Way not to read the thread...

I read the thread and every post up until mine. What I meant by that was the op seems to be insinuating that everyone has it wrong and Necrons aren't OP but are in fact just annoying. So I was simply stating that the over powered list people complain about are different to the Necron list he has played. I should have elaborated better as looking at my post now I just look like one of those 12 year olds who reads the title and quick replies in like 15 seconds. Apologies

You know what's lame and annoying too?

Psychic powers. Every game, I need to memorize the enemy's psychic powers the enemy might use, I need to know what they do, I need to keep their range in mind etc. It adds an additional layer that makes the game more complicated. Man, psychic powers are really ticking me off.

I fully agree with Spader. Most people who see Necrons immediately shout "LOLOLOL OP FLYER SPAM" as if there was no other list we could field. Guess what, I win tournaments despite not fielding a single flyer. LOLOLOLOL.

Bobthehero is correct. I absolutely wrecked them the first 2 games and the 3rd was more a draw with very few casulties on either side. I never claimed they necrons were overpowered. I only stated that, in my opinion, they rules don't interact on the table top in a mutually enjoyable manner. When my favorite opponent plays his 3 tervigon 'nid army and is able to go 4 turns without rolling doubles and has produced 100+ guants in addition to the rest of his starting troops... its FUN! When a necron does anything, it just seems agonizingly boring, ill conceived, and ill suited in its execution. I really don't know how to explain it but necrons just seem lame... not overpowered, not anything like that. Just annoying or, rather, lame... not fun, not interesting... playing them is like trying to do your own taxes..... "See column A and multiply that by row 4 to calculate you average......." lame!

I guess it all kind of depends on what your definition of "fun" is though. Personally, when I'm playing a Nid player who spams Tervigons and the game is getting slower and slower because he's crapping out dozens of extra gaunts, I tend to get bored. Same thing with sitting through a 120 man Guard army's orders and move phase. Yawn. Of course there's nothing wrong with being annoyed by something an army can do and there's certainly nothing wrong with not enjoying to play certain armies. I'm just not sure that I would single the 'Crons out in the same way that others would.

Edit:

In fact, Tervi-spam armies are one of the biggest reasons that my group does not tend to play 2000 point games anymore...

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Synaptic Disintegrators aren't sniper rifles. They are closer to battle rifles, really.

The Sniper rule does not make that weapon a sniper rifle. By your logic, the Vindicare's exitus pistol would be a sniper rifle.

Deathmarks can't infiltrate either. No idea what gave you that idea, but its not one of their special rules. They can only deepstrike, take a 100 point flying transport, walk, or deep strike on your opponent's turn (which is useless).
No infiltration.

Sorry, but in my book, Rifle(battle or otherwise) + Sniper = Sniper Rifle. Pistol + Sniper = Weird Sniper Pistol. Anyway, its just another example of giving too much bling to a single unit, the very problem that permeates the Necron codex.

And yes, I was wrong about Infiltrate, sorry about that. I confused it with the deepstrike rules they have (again, not standard). In my opinion, Deepstrike is better than infiltration, especially when you combine it with the Deathmarks other special rules and options.

Related to the topic of Deathmark Assassins have lots of rules: I feel sad that the new Chaos Warp Talons have a distinctive lack of any rules that make them worth taking. Fluff wise, they suddenly tear apart a hole in reality and land on top of people, tearing them apart. Gameplay wise, they (might) blind people within 6" and then they get torn apart by the other ten units <7" away. I really wish they had gotten something similar to the Deathmarks marking units, but more for assaulting after deepstriking.
Either way, Necrons, despite being a 5th ed codex, feel like the most 6th ed codex.

Well, Air Force 'Cron isn't as scary to me now that I can take 3-6 fliers that can Vector Strike at S7, fire 4 S8 shots or torrent an S6 AP3 flamethrower, so I guess that's always a good thing.

And CSM are the only army right now who can take flakk missiles.

Wow, 86 posts without being locked? A new record! Anyways, the new newcrons are pretty strong this edition. But it is nice to see a Xeno codex again that is in God Tier, its been too long.

rigeld2 wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
There are certain standard rule/points configurations that most armies adhere to, but the Necrons will have none of it. Normally, I wouldn't mind, but it gets kind of hard to not get irritated when I get reminded of yet another crazy special rule only Necrons get that completely invalidates a third of my army, or negates a grand tactical move. Nothing against Necron players, they are just using the rules they are given, but to try and act as if those rules are no more OP than any other is a bit much.

People keep saying this but I can't help but disagree.
Every codex does something that invalidates certain builds/makes them far less effective.

To a certain degree, you are right, but you are overlooking the point being made throughout this thread in that even the most basic, non-spamming Necron list can easily invalidate a significant number of army builds, due in part to the sheer number of special rules. How many other armies can do that?

For example, gauss weapons, the most basic of Necron weaponry, can invalidate many mech assault builds. Combine that with a few bases of Scarabs, and without any thought you have an anti-vehicle army. So without taking anything special or out of the ordinary, the Necron player gets to have a strong edge against a large number of army builds.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
The big annoyance with deathmarks is anything that is a "deployment/redeployment" allowing them to mark another unit.

The biggest issue is that their ability works on crypteks joining them, I wouldn't mind them so much if it wasn't for that flamertek.

Yep! Lost a terminator squad to that dang combo just recently.

For example, gauss weapons, the most basic of Necron weaponry, can invalidate many mech assault builds. Combine that with a few bases of Scarabs, and without any thought you have an anti-vehicle army. So without taking anything special or out of the ordinary, the Necron player gets to have a strong edge against a large number of army builds.

I'd consider scarabs being out of the ordinary for that purpose, as they are a dedicated anti-armor unit, no different from taking Chainfists on terminators.

Not to mention I'm curious as to who takes mass Gauss, most of the time I've seen Mass Tesla guns on immortals over the other guns.

Generally though I like the necrons, my friend uses them in quite a number of ways and it's always been a good, interesting fight. I do wish more books had more special rules to themselves.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
To a certain degree, you are right, but you are overlooking the point being made throughout this thread in that even the most basic, non-spamming Necron list can easily invalidate a significant number of army builds, due in part to the sheer number of special rules. How many other armies can do that?

In 5th edition any SM or Eldar army almost completely shut down a Tyranid Psychic Choir - because who didn't take Librarians that had the 24" eff-you bubble?
Grey Knights vs any multi-wound model army. (again, Tyranids)
Grey Knight Purifiers vs any horde.

For example, gauss weapons, the most basic of Necron weaponry, can invalidate many mech assault builds. Combine that with a few bases of Scarabs, and without any thought you have an anti-vehicle army. So without taking anything special or out of the ordinary, the Necron player gets to have a strong edge against a large number of army builds.

It wasn't the Codex specifically - it's how 6th edition treats Glances.

Scarabs = Burnicate them or hit them with blasts. Gone.

Gauss = Necrons always had this rule. And it has no effect against jump infantry, MC, hoards, etc. All it does is invalidate mech spam, which is what 6th ed is trying to away with anyway.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:


For example, gauss weapons, the most basic of Necron weaponry, can invalidate many mech assault builds. Combine that with a few bases of Scarabs, and without any thought you have an anti-vehicle army. So without taking anything special or out of the ordinary, the Necron player gets to have a strong edge against a large number of army builds.

Horde armies invalidate TEQ armies. Inf spam list invalidate anti-armor lists. That's how things work. Not anyone spams Gauss, in the contrary, most army lists spam Tesla. Not to mention that Gauss has always worked that way...Gauss is the best thing that could happen to 6th. Finally, those friggin' lame-donkey lists aka mech-spam need to adapt or get utterly destroyed.

Then again, a bunch of Leman Russ dropping pie plates on your Warriors still is a major threat.

Sigvatr wrote:

Horde armies invalidate TEQ armies. Inf spam list invalidate anti-armor lists. That's how things work.

Not quite to the same degree. TEQ's have massive advantages in assaults since assaults only count raw casualties, and you can still pack in plenty of anti-infantry ability in a tank hunting list, not to mention that many tank hunting guns work very well against very common heavy infantry.

Not anyone spams Gauss, in the contrary, most army lists spam Tesla. Not to mention that Gauss has always worked that way...Gauss is the best thing that could happen to 6th. Finally, those friggin' lame-donkey lists aka mech-spam need to adapt or get utterly destroyed.

By which you mean, not show up, or get destroyed. Vehicles are easier to kill in 6th edition than they've ever been in 40k, Gauss just takes tank hunting from ez-mode to autopilot.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Vehicles are easier to kill in 6th edition than they've ever been in 40k,

2nd edition Track hits would like to have a word with you.

4th ed would also like a word. It only took 1 glance to get through. It had a 1/6 chance of killing the vehicle, true, but it's possible to 1 shot a tank with a single glance. Now it takes 3 glances or so, and vehicles can get cover saves.

 Vaktathi wrote:
By which you mean, not show up, or get destroyed. Vehicles are easier to kill in 6th edition than they've ever been in 40k, Gauss just takes tank hunting from ez-mode to autopilot.

Most vehicle spam lists are IG and right now, IG owns the most overpowered vehicle in the entire game or rather its current iteration, not to mention they make up for the most annoying match-ups aka "I will just leave my models here and keep rolling dem dice, brah!"....so yeah, no tear shed here

The thing about Gauss though is...well..does it really get spammed? Most Gauss comes from generic Necron Warriors and getting rid of those guy really isn't much of a hassle. A Ghost Ark can only hold 10 robot guys and in total, we're looking at a unit that comes at 250 points and offers little anti-infantry means along with mid-range anti-tank abilities. A Leman Russ is what? 150 points? And offers long range pie plates that serve as both great anti-infantry and anti-vehicle weapons.

Gauss is pretty overrated and, not very surprising, is most often echoed by IG players...the thing is, Gauss isn't really getting spammed and is not as reliable as some make it out to be. Tesla is the new "in" for Necrons and Gauss mainly serves as a supporting tool. I got my Heavy Destroyers to take care of long-ranged vehicles

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
4th ed would also like a word. It only took 1 glance to get through. It had a 1/6 chance of killing the vehicle, true, but it's possible to 1 shot a tank with a single glance. Now it takes 3 glances or so, and vehicles can get cover saves.

Ah, but it takes fewer average shots to take off 3 HP's than it did to get taht 1/6 glance kill chance.

Lets look at a BS3 Autocannon in 4th vs 6th against an AV11 vehicle for example.

Average number of shots in 4th required to kill AV 11 10.28 (1/72 glance+1/12 pen)

Average number of shots in 6th to kill AV 11 is 9 (12 shots to average 3HP, 1/18 chance for any particular hit to penetrate and kill)



Also, when it came to assaults, in 4th ed, you hit moving vehicles on a 4, 6 if they moved over 6" and hit normal armor facing. In 6th, you hit rear armor which is almost always 10 and always at worst hit on a 3, doesn't matter if it's a Falcon moving at highway speeds or not, tanks are no harder to clamp grenades to weak spots on than it is for a guardsmen to land a hit on a grot in CC. On average, any squad equipped with Krak grenades will kill a vehicle with room to spare in an assault. It's easier to a tac squad to kill a Leman Russ or Wave Serpent moving at high speed in CC than it is to kill 2 other basic marines.

Sigvatr wrote:

Most vehicle spam lists are IG and right now, IG owns the most overpowered vehicle in the entire game or rather its current iteration

And that vehicle is a flyer which doesn't care much about Gauss and is thus irrelevant to the conversation. the only reason most vehicle spam lists now are IG is because they're the only ones that can still do it with any degree of success and not just instantly get shot to piss right off the board.

The thing about Gauss though is...well..does it really get spammed? Most Gauss comes from generic Necron Warriors and getting rid of those guy really isn't much of a hassle. A Ghost Ark can only hold 10 robot guys and in total, we're looking at a unit that comes at 250 points and offers little anti-infantry means along with mid-range anti-tank abilities. A Leman Russ is what? 150 points? And offers long range pie plates that serve as both great anti-infantry and anti-vehicle weapons.

That leman russ whiffs half the time, can't fire the cannon and other weapons to any decent effect thanks to the FAQ nerf to "heavy" from "lumbering behemoth", and is generally worse at engaging tanks and armor than the Warriors+Arc will be, on top of not having any ability to interact with mission objectives aside from one mission.

Gauss is pretty overrated and, not very surprising, is most often echoed by IG players...the thing is,

You seem to not be able to get over the fact that I have a guardsmen as a forum avatar. I also play Tau, Eldar, Chaos Space Marines, Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle. It's not just an IG thing, and I'm not really going off complaining to the skies about Gauss, the issue really is the 6E vehicle damage rules and HP's, more than anything I was pointing out that those "mean nasty mech lists that said bad things about my mommy" got overnerfed, as GW typically does, and that Gauss really just contributes to lesser diversity on the table since nobody is going to bring vehicles to a game where they're just going to evaporate.

As I said before, vehicles can get cover a bit more easily in 6th, especially if they are skimmers.

I will concede though that vehicles have become a lot more susceptible to assaults.

 Vaktathi wrote:

And that vehicle is a flyer which doesn't care much about Gauss and is thus irrelevant to the conversation. the only reason most vehicle spam lists now are IG is because they're the only ones that can still do it with any degree of success and not just instantly get shot to piss right off the board.

I'd argue that fliers DO care about Gauss, since it's one of the easiest ways (if not the easiest) to get massed anti-air weapons.

Hrm, that may be a decent point, though it's also one that's relatively easy to avoid next to some other Flyer counters given the range restrictions next to more typical weapons used against aircraft.

Necrons have some nice special rules, but then, so does every army:

Marines get Combat tactics and ATSKNF, plus free upgrades for tactical marines, special ammo for sternguard, you have turn 1 drop pod assaults, hammer of wrath from assault marines and bikes, you can change your army special rules by taking special characters and so forth.

Imperial guard have special orders, special characters that can change the character of the entire army.

Most eldar units have special rules of their own, Dire avengers can have bladestorm, banshees have banshee masks, swooping hawks have grenade packs and sky leap.

Dark eldar units all benefit from pain tokens to get steadily better throughout the game, and DE (and eldar) anti tank weapons are lances which have their own special rules

Tyranids have synapse, tervigons can spam troops, and buff them, they have lots of troops that can take upgrades that give them USR's,

Tau have marker lights, crisis suits can fire multiple weapons a turn on top of moving multiple times a turn, tau transports can detatch small drone units, and Tau vehicles can take disruption pods to get a better cover save


I guess the point is, pretty much every army has their own special rules, a large number of units have their own special rules on top of that, to single out the Necrons as the only army that has 'annoying' special rules is to ignore the fact that EVERY army has annoying special rules, the special rules are what differentiate the armies. take away the special rules and you are left with a game that may as well be chess, or Go

Nevermind...misread

I do understand OP a little.
I had a few moments at the beginning when I looked at SMs and thought to myself: "Why are so many rules in this game? Just so this army can ignore half of those? This army is stupid".

But you know, eventually It just goes away. If not, avoid playing Necrons I guess.
If creating this topic helps you cool off, all the better. Just remember not to wind yourself up. You can make even the smallest crap into a big deal if you constantly exaggerate it.

 DarthSpader wrote:
wasent 100% directed at the op. mine last response was a general one. and i DID read the first page and half, and its just coming off as whine whine whine...

if you win against an army why be annoyed at it? when i fight an army and get annoyed or whatever and still win, that just makes it a great game. winning through adversity and what not. and really... the necrons "tricks" are only there to even them up to other armies and make them a contender. take away quantum shielding, MSS, WS and the fliers / barges and you may as well play the 3rd ed codex.

QS is there to help a slow army take a few hits and allow them to actually DO something with their short range (while fighting armies with usually twice or more the range power)

MSS is there again, to help mitigate and deal with assault armies that can pack as much as 4 attacks per model on the charge. sometimes more then that on characters. it also helps to offset the whole going last thing.

warscythes are really the only close combat answer the necrons have to anything. yea, its a str 7 ap 1 armor bane, but its usually striking at init 2, compared to powerfists its not that awsome. - but for the necrons it gives them something of an edge in a dual threat. good for infantry and ok for vehicles.

the barges are not that bad. with a tesla cannon and TWL destructor, ok it has 4 twin linked str 7 shots, and another 3 str 6 ... and 6's to hit make more hits.... but AP - means there is little to fear. unless a single unit takes all 3 in the same round and biffs saves. im the first to promote tesla as an awsome weapon.... but when other armies have auto cannons, assault cannons, plasma, melta, and so on, the necrons really have one mid str weapon. and its AP, and usually mounted on a fragile open topped SLOW skimmer, wich only has a 24" range. pretty easy for a lazcannon team to shoot down. or anything for that matter. fliers are the same. aside from the near 200 pt doom sycthe, (wich has a random distance weapon that cant hit fliers) we have a str 7 anti flier shot. thats IT. nothing else in the army can AA very well. (aside from massing snap shots and praying for gauss glances) - vrs IG with the best flier in the game, space marines with pretty close seconds, chaos with a heldrake, and so on. in the battle of the air forces, necrons really come up short. i would bet on 6 storm talon/.ravens to beat 6 night/doom sycthes 100% of the time.

the necrons are not OP...they are not annoying, and they are not broke. they are an army that uses its special rules and abilities to be competetive against other styles. learn what the tricks do, how they work and the rules behind them, and its easy to develop counter strats and develop a list to play against those. im willing to bet 90% of people calling cheese on necrons is because A: they didnt take time to read and learn the rule, or B: the necron player screwed said rule up or cheated with it. (sometimes its both at the same time) - learn the rules, and all the associated brb rules before calling something broke or annoying ot cheesy.

My issue with necrons is that they have so many "super special snowflake" special rules. Orks have mob rule, WAAAGH!, it's a grots life, rokkitpack, ramshackle and gift findas. Two of those are army wide and rest are only for indivudual units (trukks, stormboyz, grots and flashgitz).

As far as I know necron lord can have 4 different non usr special rules.

 illuknisaa wrote:
).

As far as I know necron lord can have 4 different non usr special rules.

RP and Ever-living. That's 2 non-USR. And one of them is more of an amendment than an actual rule.

 illuknisaa wrote:


As far as I know necron lord can have 4 different non usr special rules.

Necron Lords, Overlords, and Destroyer Lords can at the most have 4 special rules, Independent Character, Reanimation Protocols, Ever-Living, and Preferred Enemy(Everything) on the Destroyer Lord. Of those rules, PE and IC are generic USRs, RP is basically a worse version of FNP (I consider the fact that the model doesn't get back up immediately worse than the fact that you can still use RP on Instant Death hits, partially because you can't strike back in assault, partially because you are more vulnerable to sweeping), and Ever-Living is just an amended version of RP. Everything else that Necron Lords can get is wargear, with the only fancy options being MSS and the Tesseract Labyrinth, which is technically not unique to Necrons since Inquisitor Valeria has one.

and the Tesseract Labyrinth, which is technically not unique to Necrons since Inquisitor Valeria has one.

It's not that unique at all, there's plenty of "SAVE OR DIE" Wargear or Psyker spells (JOTWW comes to mind)

rigeld2 wrote:
I find the fact that entire infantry platoons (including vehicles) are outflanked as a single unit annoying. Orders are annoying -FRFSRF makes you roll 150 dice with that blob squad. Even if they don't do anything with those flashlights it takes forever to figure that out. You don't have to roll Look Out, Sir! for the command squad - it automatically works. There's no skill involved! On top of the LD10 for every unit within 6" of a Commisar. Tack on the best AA unit in the game for horrendously cheap, Weaken Resolve...

All those special rules are just annoying.
(See what I did there?)

150 shots? Impossible. At most you can get 144, Sgts don't get lasguns.
Gotta pay extra for body guards that get the improved look out sir ability.
Only commissar lord has that bubble. Standard commy doesn't.

 Necroshea wrote:
150 shots? Impossible. At most you can get 144, Sgts don't get lasguns.

Thanks for that. I apologize - 144 shots is far more reasonable.

Gotta pay extra for body guards that get the improved look out sir ability.

And Necrons get Solar Pulse for free?

Only commissar lord has that bubble. Standard commy doesn't.

Silly Necron Overlords all having Lord of the Storm.

 Necroshea wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
I find the fact that entire infantry platoons (including vehicles) are outflanked as a single unit annoying. Orders are annoying -FRFSRF makes you roll 150 dice with that blob squad. Even if they don't do anything with those flashlights it takes forever to figure that out. You don't have to roll Look Out, Sir! for the command squad - it automatically works. There's no skill involved! On top of the LD10 for every unit within 6" of a Commisar. Tack on the best AA unit in the game for horrendously cheap, Weaken Resolve...

All those special rules are just annoying.
(See what I did there?)

150 shots? Impossible. At most you can get 144, Sgts don't get lasguns.
Gotta pay extra for body guards that get the improved look out sir ability.
Only commissar lord has that bubble. Standard commy doesn't.

1) Oh yes, because 144 shots is such a big difference from 150. Most non-IG squads have 60+ models in them, right?
2) Of course you do. There is no army that gets things for free.
3) Eh, fair enough.

Meh, brought up the points with consideration to an IG player wrongfully playing it that way.

In order to get those 144 shots, you need to get 50 models within 12" of what they're shooting at. Outside of Al rahem, if you manage to let a blob that large get that close while sporting a 5+ armor and t3, then you really need to stop skipping your shooting phases.

Complain about bodyguards. Well you have to buy those. Counter that everyone has to buy units with abilities. Right.

I don't know the Necron codex, but I imagine a lord is an HQ. Storm lord is an HQ. Commy lord is an HQ. Commy is a unit add on. Big difference.

And to think, the original post was made in jest. Kinda thought the lasgun shots would be a big tip off but I guess not.

Technically, the Necron Lord (the court variant) is also a unit add on, but anyway.