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 Monasou wrote:
Edited by AgeOfEgos

Probably missed some wisdom from the Deny the Switch guy...

I hate playing armies that seem to have 7000 special rules. After a while, it feels like somwone is just making stuff up. Its especially difficult when new players encounter them. It can feel a bit daunting.

So.... Your crazy massive gun line that uses the most powerful units in your codex couldn't table a necron army in 4 turns?

Cry me a river. Seriously. IG armies have some of the most powerful units in the game, including flier transports with hover mode and 3 twin linked lazcannons.... Long range firepower that most armies can't even get in the heavy slots, but you get em as troops. Special weapons, orders, tons of av 14 armor, and you whine about crons?

Please.

Yea necrons have fliers as troop transports. But they pack str 7 ap - weapon, armor 11, and no hover mode. The heavy support version is close to 200 pts. What's your vendetta cost?

Storm lord is one character, and is the most expensive character in the dex. Huge points investment for a guy who can't CC and might do some lightning damage ( more Likley with big armies like imperial - .... Huh go figure)

Res orbs and getting back up is tough to deal with. But it's only 50% odds, and only if you pay the 60pts per squad for The Lord and orb. Wipe the unit, and it doesn't matter either way. Unit gone means no rp. (Ever living yes, but that's only characters and crypteks)

MSS is a kick in the teeth to some. But then realize the guy using them has 3 attacks at most, 4 on the charge, init 2-3 usually 2 and ws4. It's also random. Charge a mss lord with a bunch of infantry and a beat stick or 2... The mss gets a grunt oh no! Then your best sticks crump him. Throw a single char at The Lord and of course you'll loose. Easy way around mss is lots of grunts with 2 or more best sticks. Refuse challenges loose 1 beat sick, then rape him before he can touch you.

I am tired of people who play an army, and fight a new one, can't beat it because they themselves can't adapt, and the result is a cry of cheese, and annoyed, and, omg OP!

The necrons have tricks. Yes. They also have a ton of special rules. But those are there to allow a fighting chance against cheesy armies like imperial guard gun line and vendetta armies.

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT.

You mean they have to roll to get those extra turns of nightfighting?!?!??!

Oh, those Necron players are going to have hell to pay. They've been saying that they get the nightfighting automatically.

The night that I bring 400 guardsmen to a normal game is about to be upon us.

Although to be honest, you can say this of pretty much any army. I'm still amazed at how many people bust a blood vessel over orders for IG, when there are far scarier things in our codex, but hey there you go. Nobody can deny us orders, and you can't exactly use deny the witch when my 6 leman russ battle tanks are casting battlecannon every turn

Spetulhu wrote:
Annoying might not be the right word, but the special rules do abound. SW Rune Priests can cast lightning at one unit at a time, the Necron HQ just casts lightning at everything. Many armies have dedicated AT weapons, Necrons have basic weapons that work for AT too. Rare heroes like Commissar Yarrick and St. Celestine can get back up after being knocked down, every single Necron can.

Someone tried so hard to make them special that they just seem cheap.

Rune priests can instantly kill everything in the nid arsenal with JOTWW, and has the second best anti psyker hood in the game, necrons have very expensive transports to get those basic weapons into combat and other very expensive vehicles. Necrons have always had that, even before Celestine and Yarrick (Hint, Yarrick didn't have it before 5th edition, and Witch hunters came out a year after necrons) could. Before 4th/5th not many aside from necrons could revive, if at all. It's mostly seen after 4th for anything non-necron.

An IG army player is complaining about Necrons? Uhm...the same army that can spam pie plates on AV 14 tanks? The same army with the currently most overpowered flyer in the game?

Necron USR tick you off? How about those 3+ cover saves Leman Russ? The 3 twin-linked lascannons on a flyer? The ability to spam vehicles due to vehicle squads? I can't use a single slot to bring 3 vehicles to the battlefield. Your enemy rolling 100+ dice for his shooting blobs that get a 2+ cover save?

Those are things that annoy me as someone who plays a very fair and balanced Necron list. Nobody doubts that Scythe spam is overpowered, but tbh, you only roll that list if you really need to compensate...scythe-spam, however, is a joke compared to Vendettta-spam. 'cause that's just ridicolous.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT.

You mean they have to roll to get those extra turns of nightfighting?!?!??!

Oh, those Necron players are going to have hell to pay. They've been saying that they get the nightfighting automatically.

Just to clarify you get Nightfighting automatically on the first turn. Each subsequent turn the Necron Player needs to roll greater then the current turn number. So on turn 2 it's a 3+ turn 3 4+ etc. A Chronometron equipped Cryptek in the same squad as the Stormlord will give you rerolls.

But yeah if they've been saying automatic NF on for every turn until Imotek dies then you're being cheated.

As a necron player do you know what ticks me off? Drop pods. unless it goes off the table it is landing perfectly safe unlike my monolith which has an even bigger foot print. Oh hey a grot got in the way, we'll blow up now. Oh hey I got assaulted! Yay one guy didn't manage to hit me but the rest of the squad wiped me out.

MSS is easy to counter, just bring more bodies and don't attack a squad with it with just one guy (love when MC's charges alone) and don't stick your biggest guys against it.

WBB isn't as common as you think and if an ark is bringing them back kill that first, the first pen makes it AV 11 / 11 / 11.

Stormlord is not that common, we don't have night vision too and I'd rather have a surf lord running around the map then him in a corner.

Fliers are easy to kill with sky fire and last I've looked only our fliers have that ability.

Yes the royal court has a lot of rules, but that is where 90% of our special rules are hidden and that gets to be a pain since every D-Tek I get to improve my warriors threat abilitiy means one less fun one I can bring, not even counting that I can't even equip more then 1 per HQ with the same gear so I can't have veil or some other fun ability on all of them.

EDIT: Also with night fight almost every game mode has a 1st turn NF on 4+ already (and if that failed NF on turn 5/6/7 on a 4+), not to mention the commander ability to make it night fight as well on first turn.

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT.

You mean they have to roll to get those extra turns of nightfighting?!?!??!

Oh, those Necron players are going to have hell to pay. They've been saying that they get the nightfighting automatically.

Just to clarify you get Nightfighting automatically on the first turn. Each subsequent turn the Necron Player needs to roll greater then the current turn number. So on turn 2 it's a 3+ turn 3 4+ etc. A Chronometron equipped Cryptek in the same squad as the Stormlord will give you rerolls.

But yeah if they've been saying automatic NF on for every turn until Imotek dies then you're being cheated.

Yep thats what its been. To be fair, the necron special rules dont really bug me, it's just that we have a local guy who plays them that is a jerk. Since he's apparently lied about this, it makes me wonder what else he's left out... to be honest, night scythes aren't that scary to me, as everything I have is either a guardsman or av 14, and most of their other units arent that scary either.

The only army that really bugs me is space wolves, and thats mainly just because of rune priests and that they're the biggest middle finger you could give blob guard last edition, and over half my club ran dual wolf priest space wolf lists. It just got to the point where I didnt even want to unpack my army. Nothing else has ever made me feel that frustrated.

Also, I find it hilarious that Ig and necron players are both whining about the other. We're considered the two most powerful codexes right now, we're both OP if we feel like it. Trying to say the other guy is the bigger offender is very much calling the pot calling the ketle black. And thats without even getting into the fact that just because someone plays IG/necrons doesnt mean they're bringin a cheesy list. Attacking a guy just because of the codex he picked is very childish. I mean, I hate space wolves with a white hot fury of a thousand suns, but i would never belittle an opponent for choosing that army.

All these biased Necron players just need to stop posting in this forum. Seriously, what are you trying to achieve?

Let me get this straight...
You're a Necron player browsing the forum. You see a thread that is OBVIOUSLY a rant about Necrons, it even says so in the title.
So you click it....why?
You didn't come into this post to read up on someone's opinions of your army.
You came in here just to talk trash and try and make yourself seem better than the OP.
Seriously, get a life, and if you play Crons, don't post in Cron-hate threads.

And seriously, enough with the "quit crying, get over it" attitude, that's the worst garbage ever. Everyone, yes, even you, knows that Necrons are a little over the top in 6th edition. The same way people were upset with Grey Knights last edition. The only people saying that are Necron players anyways. If you play an army other than Crons, chances are, you freaking hate Crons right now. Everyone is feeling it. Telling other people to "man up" is actually making you the minority in the situation, and it's not a real solution, and you're only making yourself look like an ass by trying to be a tough guy on the internet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failure).

And seriously, enough with the "quit crying, get over it" attitude, that's the worst garbage ever. Everyone, yes, even you, knows that Necrons are a little over the top in 6th edition.

You came in here just to talk trash and try and make yourself seem better than the OP.
Seriously, get a life, and if you play Crons, don't post in Cron-hate threads.

Really now, being hypocritical in the same post is a bit much don't you think.

Necrons are currently the strongest army in 40k The codex has multple, extremely underpriced units: Wraiths, Annihilation Barges, Night scythes to name just a few. For example, Tesla Destructors are equivalent to 3 Autocannons (except for AP), something that Necron players never seem to talk about.

Basically all Necron special rules synergize perfectly with 6e rule changes.

Are Necrons OP? Well, no more than GK were in 5e.

How exactly was I being hypocritical? I didn't come to this thread with the intent to badmouth people.

That's just how I felt after reading all the Cron players posts in these threads, and then my mind wanted to explode after trying to figure out the reason they clicked the link to the thread in the first place.

 UberhAxTHC wrote:
How exactly was I being hypocritical? I didn't come to this thread with the intent to badmouth people.

That's just how I felt after reading all the Cron players posts in these threads, and then my mind wanted to explode after trying to figure out the reason they clicked the link to the thread in the first place.

People are allowed to freely come in to any post there is on this forum, not to mention make their case be heard if they felt like it so long as they are not flaming or insulting. It's a forum, not a private posting place for patronizing personal problems.

Telling others to GTFO cause you don't like to read their opinions on the matter, but at the same time insulting them is rather hypocritical, while attempting to use the same argument style you are complaining about.

Why don't you try staying on topic instead of targeting me due to your insane boredom?

In fact, this whole thread needs to stay on topic. Like 90% of the posts in here are complaining about Imperial Guard. How did THAT happen?

 UberhAxTHC wrote:
Why don't you try staying on topic instead of targeting me due to your insane boredom?

In fact, this whole thread needs to stay on topic. Like 90% of the posts in here are complaining about Imperial Guard. How did THAT happen?

You should probably start by taking your own advice, and contributing something to the discussion instead of whining.


Anyway, Necrons having a lot of special rules to keep up with, is just part of the game. I can understand some of the frustrations being vented, Necrons were pretty much a hard counter to IG in 5th, and the situation has mostly remained the same into 6th.

One of the key things is making sure that you understand the enemies rules. Just like earlier when someone mentioned that Necron players may have cheated him with the Stormlord's rules, you should make sure they are following their rules correctly.

Learning how to best circumvent or remove Necron special rules when you can, will be key to winning.

Addressing that the topic is running off course isn't whining.

 UberhAxTHC wrote:
Addressing that the topic is running off course isn't whining.

et me get this straight...
You're a Necron player browsing the forum. You see a thread that is OBVIOUSLY a rant about Necrons, it even says so in the title.
So you click it....why?
You didn't come into this post to read up on someone's opinions of your army.
You came in here just to talk trash and try and make yourself seem better than the OP.
Seriously, get a life, and if you play Crons, don't post in Cron-hate threads.

This is whining, and has added nothing to the discussion, except causing the thread to further drift off topic.

 Sasori wrote:

 UberhAxTHC wrote:
Addressing that the topic is running off course isn't whining.

et me get this straight...
You're a Necron player browsing the forum. You see a thread that is OBVIOUSLY a rant about Necrons, it even says so in the title.
So you click it....why?
You didn't come into this post to read up on someone's opinions of your army.
You came in here just to talk trash and try and make yourself seem better than the OP.
Seriously, get a life, and if you play Crons, don't post in Cron-hate threads.

This is whining, and has added nothing to the discussion, except causing the thread to further drift off topic.

This is whining about whining, and has added nothing to the discussion, except causing the thread to further drift off topic.

Wow sometimes I wonder if people can even read.

OP: Necrons - NOT OP
Thread: grow the feth up OP, necrons aren't op you play guard ffs cry me a river and take some more battlecannons

Fact is, there's some special abilities that are really in a class for themselves in that they just impose flat restrictions on your opponent's army. Things like stormlord's lightning and nightfight, eldar warding runes and IG fleet officer. Personally I like a challenge but I can definitely see why people find these lame.

Edit: I also agree with uberhax, you guys are just wasting postspace.

 UberhAxTHC wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 UberhAxTHC wrote:
Addressing that the topic is running off course isn't whining.

et me get this straight...
You're a Necron player browsing the forum. You see a thread that is OBVIOUSLY a rant about Necrons, it even says so in the title.
So you click it....why?
You didn't come into this post to read up on someone's opinions of your army.
You came in here just to talk trash and try and make yourself seem better than the OP.
Seriously, get a life, and if you play Crons, don't post in Cron-hate threads.

This is whining, and has added nothing to the discussion, except causing the thread to further drift off topic.

This is whining about whining, and has added nothing to the discussion, except causing the thread to further drift off topic.

Okay, getting back on topic after this..little discussion started by you.

Edit: I also agree with uberhax, you guys are just wasting postspace.

Yet he's continuing it after he started it. Funnily enough.

Necrons have issues, but they are about where GK we're in 5th.

They have some mid to op range units, but their special rules also make them who they are.

back on topic please folks.

 Sasori wrote:

One of the key things is making sure that you understand the enemies rules. Just like earlier when someone mentioned that Necron players may have cheated him with the Stormlord's rules, you should make sure they are following their rules correctly.

Must agree here as well. I've learned the hard way with crons, eldar, tau etc that if you don't sit down and grasp their filthy xenos rules, you're going to get bamboozled.

I think this is a big part of the internet whine problem, people actually don't know that many of the rules they complain about are about half as good as they think.

That's what I find annoying, complicated rules.

That GK list looks like what he's been running since 5th.
New edition, lists need to change.
Searchlights are essentially mandatory now, what with Solar Pulses and games between non-cron armies having Night Fighting for at least one turn.

Why does it feel "beardy" (which I assume is a bad thing) to counter a, by your own words, annoying ability?

For the record, I'm not a Necron player.

@OP
Honestly, the only real issue I have with Necrons is that it's my best friend's first and only army, and I've gotten so used to their autoglance on 6 that I never bother with vehicles, save the occaisonal Rhino to get my Mehreens someplace decent before it gets wrecked.
Now, with the new Chaos codex, I have some better support against his air force lists, as I always take a Havoc squad with at least 1-2 Flakk missiles or a Heldrake that I use as either a Hades for fliers or Baleflamer for infantry (Also S7 vector strike, woot!). 5++ and IWND gives it some survivability against his shots, as he needs a 6 and 6 to damage it, but I'm still apprehensive towards fielding it.

Also, I've sat down and read his codex cover to cover a few times, so I'm at least familiar with the possible cheese of his army. He usually tells me his plans for his next list so I can at least prepare some counter units (My Dad Can Beat Your Dad), but if I was up against a random guy with Necrons I'd be pretty wary about the abilities he gets.

And Necron allies are a LOT of fun

 pretre wrote:
So your opponent rolled 12 5+ saves in a roll (or even 4+ with a res orb)? That's just crazy rolling. That happens with every army. Would you post if you played against a Deathwing player and he made 30 2+ saves in a row and complain about how broken terminator armor is?

Necrons have always been an army where you must focus fire them or they will get back up. That's just the way it is.

In the immortal words of Lord Solar Macharius: "Less QQ, more pew pew."

Yeah welcome to my life were everyone tells me how broken my Deathwing list is. (hint: i don't use all stormshields).

Yes they have some annoying mechanics but everything in the necrons codex has a weakness. So storm lord makes it night fighting put a marbo near him and destroy him. SO MSS is a pain (there is no way around it.) Just focus on levling them one squad at a time and remember to roll your precision shot sergeants seperate so they can cap the cryptek from range. Problem solved.

Yes necrons break a lot of basics rules of the game but these are initiative two dudes cut them down.

I would rate Necrons as one of the top armies right now. they have a number of units that leap out at you as 'must take' and their troops are resilient, and that resilience can be enhanced, and a lot of the units benefit from some quite nice special rules.
the units often regarded as overpowered i don't think are, i think undercosted is a more apt description, but there are units in other armies that are the same, Vendettas and grey hunters are the ones that leap out at me.

The great thing about the necron codex (from a necron perspective) is that there are far and away more options than there used to be. Oldcrons had a very limited number of viable forces they could take, but newcrons have immense flexibility, and the abilities of one unit can enhance abilities of others. This affords me as a Necron player (since 2nd ed) far more freedom in picking an effective, and unique army.

The bad thing about these special rules (from an inferior species perspective) is that if you are unfamiliar with them, it can seem the necrons can pull off some truly rediculous (totally OP!!) antics. Necron warrior blobs regenerating after being almost annihilated due to ghost arks is a good example. MSS helping an overlord kill the swarmlord 1v1 would be another. but then this bad thing can also be attributed to any army you come up against if you aren't familiar with them, and most units have special rules attributed to them, either literally through special rules, or more generally through universal special rules and wargear. the variations 2 different lists can have is truly staggering, even from the same codex.

the fact is, unless you understand an army, you will always be at a dissadvantage when playing against it. if you have played against an army enough, or are familiar with the codex, you can be prepared for any suprises when they show up, and be able to predict what those suprises might be.

now, to respond to an earlier point about night fight and the stormlord. you get auto night fight turn 1, and you can try to keep it in effect every turn, and use a chronotek to get re-rolls. Necrons also have the 'solar pulse' which can be used to either cancel NF for a single turn, or to bring it into effect (but the stormlords lightning won't work if nightfighting is in effect this way)
You also should not be afraid of asking your opponent to show you the relevant rule in their codex if you are unsure about it, most players will be more than happy to show you, and its also a good way to get to know an army if you don't own the codex yourself

I don't feel they are OP, but I understand (somewhat) the OPs frustration with WBB. Especially since we (I've been a 'Cron player since their original debut in WD) lost the phase out rule.

Basically all Necron special rules synergize perfectly with 6e rule changes.

I think that's the real crux of the issue. The new dex was CLEARLY written with 6th ed in mind. The crons aren't op (Flying circus not withstanding - I'm more of a silver tide guy), they just use the new 6th ed rules more efficiently than most. I figured once the other books got updated we would go back to being kind of middle of the pack. I think the issue here though is that the new Chaos dex does NOT feel like it was written for 6th quite as well so the Necrons now stand out that much more. It will be interesting to see what happens with the next few books.

that's definitely part of the issue, necrons very clearly were written to take advantage of, and mitigate the issues with, the 6E ruleset, to the hilt (HP's, flyer transports not killing occupants, lots of nightfight and NF related abilities, etc). The Chaos book on the other hand basically just got a cut/paste Fantasy mechanics and a couple of 6E USR's and otherwise is largely indistinguishable from a 4E or 5E book.

 Desubot wrote:
They just need a general price adjustment and I think they will be fine. (Though I wish they would adjust that av13 BS quantum shielding [or make it a upgrade that costs a bit])

So they should be good to go in a few years when they get a new codex? Awesome.

Nercons as a whole aren't over powered, but when you start doing stupid things with your list, such has maxing out on fliers, it then becomes overpowered.

Minus MSS (which isn't that random in challenges) and the flier spam, it's a really good book. People should stop spamming wraiths, since there are better options, but otherwise it's a good book with lots of good choices for each FOS.