I recently sold a Lamentors army on Ebay and the buyer complained about the army and wanted a refund. He had buyers remorse and straight away opened a case and won so I lost the money from the auction. He said he sent it back but after a month of waiting (he lives in Germany) I emailed him asking what happened and no reply. I contacted ebay but had to go through the German site (because he opened the case in the German site) and I complained the package never arrived. They said he supplied a tracking number but it was not my address and could not give me back the money that was automatically refunded to him. So not only am I out an army but I lost the money from that auction. The buyer is joe_pepper on ebay. This guy not only scammed me but also stole an army so be on the lookout if he tries to resell. I have his name and address and will give it out if you PM me.
Comments like yours are not helpful. True, but he has since done the honourable thing and edited it out, so removing the offending quote to calm any further miss feelings - MDS
japehlio wrote: surely if you now have proof he did not return product to you (different tracking number etc) you can 'counter claim' with paypal?
I had to call ebay over the phone and it was their German call center. The problem is since I dont speak German and their English capable rep had no idea and kept insisting the buyer had a tracking number. I have read various forums about my problem and I am not the only one this has happened to and it is about 99.9999% ebay sides with the buyer over the seller. I provided the seller's ID for people to blacklist him just in case.
Moral of the story: Dont use ebay for selling an army
He claimed item not described and said models were broken. I told him that with international shipping I cant be held responsible for what happens during shipment. Before we had a chance to negotiate he went straight for opening a case. The army cost me $2000 including cost of models. I posted his ebay ID and I hope people dont make a $2000 dollar mistake.
Moral of the story: Dont use ebay for selling an army
Don't use Ebay.
I'm sorry to hear about this, mate. I remember how crushed I was when someone had stolen a single miniature from me, but an entire army? (even one that is to be sold.) That sucks.
I'm hoping for you, mate.
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Sigvatr wrote: Unless you manage to somehow get back in touch, I'd say the legal aka get a lawyer way is the only way left right now :/
People, especially in Germany, tend to worry a lot when they suddenly receive a formal letter by a lawyer.
Are lawyers a thing in Germany? Don't you have a more inquisitorial approach to law?
thehod wrote: I recently sold a Lamentors army on Ebay and the buyer complained about the army and wanted a refund. He had buyers remorse and straight away opened a case and won so I lost the money from the auction. He said he sent it back but after a month of waiting (he lives in Germany) I emailed him asking what happened and no reply. I contacted ebay but had to go through the German site (because he opened the case in the German site) and I complained the package never arrived. They said he supplied a tracking number but it was not my address and could not give me back the money that was automatically refunded to him. So not only am I out an army but I lost the money from that auction. The buyer is joe_pepper on ebay. This guy not only scammed me but also stole an army so be on the lookout if he tries to resell. I have his name and address and will give it out if you PM me.
Shall we re-post pics of your lost army at German forums to see if this army re-emerges again from being tracked?
thehod wrote: I recently sold a Lamentors army on Ebay and the buyer complained about the army and wanted a refund. He had buyers remorse and straight away opened a case and won so I lost the money from the auction. He said he sent it back but after a month of waiting (he lives in Germany) I emailed him asking what happened and no reply. I contacted ebay but had to go through the German site (because he opened the case in the German site) and I complained the package never arrived. They said he supplied a tracking number but it was not my address and could not give me back the money that was automatically refunded to him. So not only am I out an army but I lost the money from that auction. The buyer is joe_pepper on ebay. This guy not only scammed me but also stole an army so be on the lookout if he tries to resell. I have his name and address and will give it out if you PM me.
Shall we re-post pics of your lost army at German forums to see if this army re-emerges again from being tracked?
Good idea actually. The 40K community is not that big and have specific circles of peers within a locale. That army will come up, probably to be sold in pieces. Generally this will be hidden for several months before it trying to be fenced. Check pawn shops or places for bartering though.
This person whole stole your army needs to be stopped.
Are lawyers a thing in Germany? Don't you have a more inquisitorial approach to law?
Or does Germany use the adversarial system?
Lawyers are a big thing in civil cases in Germany. Receiving a formal letter from a lawyer will force you to act, especially when it comes to bigger companies like ebay...it's bad publicity for them and ultimately, what they will do is getting back in contact with the former buyer and forcing him to properly reply.
If you need help with translating stuff or communicating with ebay, feel free to ask / PM me. I'm a German <=> English translator and would love to somehow help you out.
Agree, this is the type of thing where I would spend a dollar to save ten cents.
So have you looked up the address of the tracking number? Maybe if you can get the person of the address of the package he sent to show it wasn't shipped to them.
You have his name and address correct? Seems like you could do something with a German lawyer. A Simple generated letter is usually enough to get action.
im appalled at ebay. do they even fully investigate these cases? did the buyer provide clear pictures showing all the damage? they dont check the tracking number or the address he provided?
kb305 wrote: im appalled at ebay. do they even fully investigate these cases? did the buyer provide clear pictures showing all the damage? they dont check the tracking number or the address he provided?
Language barrier, like he said.
Shipping overseas is always iffy. Even if he had sent the army back, would you want the damaged goods? After 2 trips who knows how banged up it is.
Unfortunately, the costs of getting a lawyer often out weigh the expenses of the loss.
Even more unfortunate, it isn't that uncommon of a thing to happen (not exactly frequent - but I have had it happen twice to me and have heard similar events from a dozen or so friends as well).
eBay is generally insulated against any action against them - in many cases that laws are actually written in a manner which dictates that what they do in regards to giving the buyer the benefit is in fact mandatory. The burden of proof to demonstrate that you in fact should be legally reimbursed is generally beyond what you can demonstrate under normal circumstances. Even have signature receipts are often not enough as it becomes the word of the buyer versus the word of the seller that the items which were shipped were in fact the items that were received.
On getting the product returned after a dispute - that isn't even often a requirement under the law. When it is, it is generally the responsibility of the seller to provide all the various shipping and other arrangements. Under normal circumstances, they don't treat the hobbyist who sells a half dozen items on eBay a year any different then they treat Amazon who sells millions of items a year through their own website. Of course, Amazon has the ability to absorb a $2000 loss without so much as a blink...while that might be enough to seriously dent a hobbyist's personal finances.
The morale of the story ends up being...never rely on money from an eBay (or other) sale. There is no guarantee you will actually get it, and there is a possibility you will loose both the money and the item you were trying to sell with little recourse to actually recover either.
Yeah, sad as it is to say, I stopped selling anything on eBay several years ago, and now only buy there.
In this case, I'd calmly but firmly get eBay US to do it, and if the first-tier call centre drones don't give you any help, ask to speak to their team leaders. Just keep escalating it there until you get someone who is willing to help you, explaining calmly but firmly that you don't speak German and you need someone who speaks English to help you.
Let me get this straight, you spent hundreds of hours painting that army to such a standard and spent hundreds of dollars assembling it, and then some lowlife scumbag just scammed you straight out of it for free in a sale? That really is incredible, I'm glad I haven't bought second hand armies off of it for Christmas, I would have been outraged if I had been on the receiving end of that.
This same sort of thing happened to me about six years ago with a buyer from Germany as well. When i was in high school and college I sold about $400-600 or so a month of painted minis on Ebay for extra cash. I had sold a few hundred dollars worth of Warmachine mini's to someone there, they opened up a dispute and I was out the mini's and the money. I just in the past 8 months started using Ebay again to just buy things.
Post all information you have at /tg/ along with cross-posting on /b/.
I am serious here. A week ago, someone in New Zealand was able to retrieve his truck that has been loaned and not returned. People tracked the guy who stole it down, shot photos from the truck and the owner had it returned. There also are a lot of Germans active on these boards.
I am not assuring you it will work. I am not responsible for any consequences - we had bad examples in the past in regards to the evil-doer.
Best of luck!
Lovepug13 wrote: Can't somebody in Germany just go to his address? And then it can be resolved promptly and hopefully the army can be returned.
Do we have an adress yet?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is this his profile?
Ebay is awfully biased towards the buyer now and 999 out of 1000 cases Ebay will side with the buyer. Sorry to hear about this. I have had bad experiences myself. at least 50% of anything I've sent to Italy has gone 'missing' in the post. I now no longer will sell to anyone from Italy.
I also had the same as yourself with a buyer from Germany over 3 T-Shirts. They were sent, they complained, Ebay took the money from my PayPal account and refunded them. The items were never returned. For me though, this was an isolated case and I've send 10's of parcels to Germany for GW stuff and never had any issues.
Sigvatr- the OP said you can PM him for the address. It cannot be posted on Dakka, as no personal information is allowed to be posted.
Guys, talking about visiting the guy is all relative- if you're seriously wanting to help resolve the issue, that's one thing, but ANY talk of real life violence will end up having this thread locked, which isn't useful for anybody but the guy who stole the army.
Imo, given the below as well, I only sell large ebay items within my own country, so that disputes are easier to resolve...
Kommisar wrote: This same sort of thing happened to me about six years ago with a buyer from Germany as well. When i was in high school and college I sold about $400-600 or so a month of painted minis on Ebay for extra cash. I had sold a few hundred dollars worth of Warmachine mini's to someone there, they opened up a dispute and I was out the mini's and the money. I just in the past 8 months started using Ebay again to just buy things.
My advice still stands then. Try to get /tg/ or /b/ on your side. You already got the adress + his e-mail. If you do get them to help you, that guy is seriously screwed.
If you really want to get serious, have fun with him. Given that you got his address and e-mail along with his real name, you can sign him up for "newsletters", any "free surveys", free "sign-ups" etc. You know what I mean. Proxy hard and screw him over!
RiTides wrote: Sigvatr- the OP said you can PM him for the address. It cannot be posted on Dakka, as no personal information is allowed to be posted.
Guys, talking about visiting the guy is all relative- if you're seriously wanting to help resolve the issue, that's one thing, but ANY talk of real life violence will end up having this thread locked, which isn't useful for anybody but the guy who stole the army.
Imo, given the below as well, I only sell large ebay items within my own country, so that disputes are easier to resolve...
Kommisar wrote: This same sort of thing happened to me about six years ago with a buyer from Germany as well. When i was in high school and college I sold about $400-600 or so a month of painted minis on Ebay for extra cash. I had sold a few hundred dollars worth of Warmachine mini's to someone there, they opened up a dispute and I was out the mini's and the money. I just in the past 8 months started using Ebay again to just buy things.
This is just terrible. As RiTides says though I only sell in the US, and Canada, so I can resolve disputes much easier. I hope the users from Germany offer you sincere, and good, help on resolving this.
Sigvatr wrote: Post all information you have at /tg/ along with cross-posting on /b/.
I am serious here. A week ago, someone in New Zealand was able to retrieve his truck that has been loaned and not returned. People tracked the guy who stole it down, shot photos from the truck and the owner had it returned. There also are a lot of Germans active on these boards.
I am not assuring you it will work. I am not responsible for any consequences - we had bad examples in the past in regards to the evil-doer.
Best of luck!
Lovepug13 wrote: Can't somebody in Germany just go to his address? And then it can be resolved promptly and hopefully the army can be returned.
Do we have an adress yet?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is this his profile?
I am sorry to hear about this bro, my friend had a bad experience with buying a Land Raider off Ebay a long time ago and every since I don't trust that place. Would rather buy and sell on these forums.
So sorry dude. I had this happen to a friend. It was not a full army but a number of models. Myself and a few big friends went to the address and got the models back. Most people will do the right thing when enough pressure is applied. I hope some of your German friends here on dakka will help you out.
That is why I refuse to buy anything on Ebay. I hate them and pay pal. I got taken for about $150 about 10 years ago using pay pal some of my bank account info got taken. I know both sites were in their infancy at the time but I won't EVER do business with either one EVER again. It was a head ache and I was a broke college student trying to pay my bills and did nothing but sour my taste. When Paypal was purchased by Ebay, I chuckled because it was fitting that they are both poorly run.
Imo, given the below as well, I only sell large ebay items within my own country, so that disputes are easier to resolve...
This. I only sell to US because shipping nationally is cheaper than overseas, because I am aware of the laws regarding mail and mail fraud in my own country much better than in another and the above. I shipped to another country once and I lost nearly half of the sale in fees and shipping. Not to mention the fact it took forever to get to the buyer and he was starting to get suspicious that the goods were not going to arrive.
Lovepug13 wrote: Can't somebody in Germany just go to his address? And then it can be resolved promptly and hopefully the army can be returned.
On a more serious note though, bloody sucks :-/
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Sigvatr wrote: Post all information you have at /tg/ along with cross-posting on /b/.
I am serious here. A week ago, someone in New Zealand was able to retrieve his truck that has been loaned and not returned. People tracked the guy who stole it down, shot photos from the truck and the owner had it returned. There also are a lot of Germans active on these boards.
I am not sure that, should the law get involved here, the posting of someone's address publicly in order to motivate vigilantes to take action would go down particularly well...
This is awful to hear. I sell a lot of stuff on eBay, and because of events like this (but not to the same value) I've stopped offering International Shipping. There was a time where I would sell International but only Priority, so insurance would cover anything. I then had someone in Spain refuse to bring their 'damaged' item to the Post Office so insurance could take care of it. So I got nailed by eBay and was out a few hundred dollars.
I do hook up Dakka though, so if you buy from weneediapers on eBay send me a message with your forum handle.
Mandatory insured delivery for overseas shipping. It's the only way.
This is the main reason why I sell stuff on Dakka and other forums more than anywhere else, it's just safer to deal with people who are part of a community.
Sigvatr wrote: Post all information you have at /tg/ along with cross-posting on /b/.
I am serious here. A week ago, someone in New Zealand was able to retrieve his truck that has been loaned and not returned. People tracked the guy who stole it down, shot photos from the truck and the owner had it returned. There also are a lot of Germans active on these boards.
I am not assuring you it will work. I am not responsible for any consequences - we had bad examples in the past in regards to the evil-doer.
Best of luck!
As an ebay seller who is potentially concerned about this happening to me, what exactly is /tg/ and /b/?
4chan subforums on tabletop games and board games.
And Sigvatr's advice is still the best. Not to get his house burned but the tabletop scene near Heidelberg warned.
Sigvatr wrote: Post all information you have at /tg/ along with cross-posting on /b/.
I am serious here. A week ago, someone in New Zealand was able to retrieve his truck that has been loaned and not returned. People tracked the guy who stole it down, shot photos from the truck and the owner had it returned. There also are a lot of Germans active on these boards.
I am not assuring you it will work. I am not responsible for any consequences - we had bad examples in the past in regards to the evil-doer.
Best of luck!
As an ebay seller who is potentially concerned about this happening to me, what exactly is /tg/ and /b/?
Tg is the wargame/rpg subsection of the deepest pit of the internet, the place where perdition and debauchery are assured: 4chan!
To the OP: hope you will have justice. I will keep an eye open but I doubt the army will ever show up where i live...
Sellers contacted me to warn me that someone I sold a Steelbook to had filed a Not Received claim against 12 of them. eBay sided with the buyer in every case, as their system does not track patterns or fraud risks with buyers, it seems.
I complained. No good. I did some background checking on him, as someone mentioned he'd also been scamming the retailer I work for. Looked into the systems, sure enough, Item Not Received topping out at 25% of the items he ever bought. Anything over £25.
I posted publicly on eBay.co.uk's Facebook page, leaving enough info to get their attention but being very careful to NOT mention the buyer's name or username. If you do this they have to delete the comment for fear of libel litigation.
End result? eBay customer service: nothing. eBay Facebook team? Got in touch with me within hours, and had looked into and closed the case in my favour within 24 hours. An actual human had checked into my claims, noticed the patterns reported and also refunded all the other sellers scammed by this guy. I kept all my dealings with them and comments civil, polite and constructive.
Give it a go - post on an eBay Facebook page, don't name any names, but get someone to look into it. If you have no success I can try messaging the eBay contact who messaged me, but as they work for .co.uk it probably won't be much use to you.
Sigvatr wrote: Post all information you have at /tg/ along with cross-posting on /b/.
I am serious here. A week ago, someone in New Zealand was able to retrieve his truck that has been loaned and not returned. People tracked the guy who stole it down, shot photos from the truck and the owner had it returned. There also are a lot of Germans active on these boards.
I am not assuring you it will work. I am not responsible for any consequences - we had bad examples in the past in regards to the evil-doer.
Best of luck!
As an ebay seller who is potentially concerned about this happening to me, what exactly is /tg/ and /b/?
Tg is the wargame/rpg subsection of the deepest pit of the internet, the place where perdition and debauchery are assured: 4chan!
or 7chan or any number of the old school BBS style boards - but yes...deep, dark and disturbing. Makes Frothers look like a bunch of primary school girls.
azazel the cat wrote: Stay away from /b/ it is not your friend; and there are some things that you just cannot un-see.
Weak words haha, /b/ isnt anywhere near as big and dark as it was a few years back. Too many kids thinking "hur dur im anon-e-mouse" thats its mostly newbies who cant do a whole lot and think posting a few words of racist profanity is the highlight of the site
Honestly, after the guy's actions, I'm surprised nobody (with legal know how to get around eBay) has thought to safely scam this guy back and pass the army on to the OP. or for the OP to get a new eBay account and nail this guy back.
The guy is a respectet seller on ebay. Talked with 3 people who bought stuff from him and they were fully satisfied. They received their stuff after a few days and praised that it was "carefully packaged", two of them ordered larger armies too and even had protective foam in their box to keep the content safe.
That's about what I could gather. I do not want to make the impression that I side with him, I do not want to take any side on this matter at all. It's just another small tidbit of info I wanted to share with you guys.
The only advice I can give you is the one I gave you a few posts before and to try to get someone help you with taking legal action regarding this matter. Try to get some legal advice and send him another e-mail / letter giving him ample time to reply (about 1-2 weeks is appropriate). If he does not react, you need to take legal action, it's your very last opportunity.
I will admit that I have not read through the pages of this thread however the inital post is all the OP needs to get his money back.
Paypal or Ebay (whoever issued the refund to the buyer) provides the buyer with an address to send the items too.
If Ebay or Paypal has given the wrong address or admitted its the wrong address then they and they alone are soley and wholly liable for the refund.
Also a refund is never issued until receipt of the returned goods is confirmed so im puzzled as to how you have ended up in this situation.
GBDarkAngel wrote: I will admit that I have not read through the pages of this thread however the inital post is all the OP needs to get his money back.
Paypal or Ebay (whoever issued the refund to the buyer) provides the buyer with an address to send the items too.
If Ebay or Paypal has given the wrong address or admitted its the wrong address then they and they alone are soley and wholly liable for the refund.
Also a refund is never issued until receipt of the returned goods is confirmed so im puzzled as to how you have ended up in this situation.
Sending the item back it is not a requirement for them to get a refund. Normally a buyer is supposed communicate with the seller to resolve the issue but they can just oopen a dispute straight away and say "the item wasn't as described" or "didn't arrive" and they usually get their money back instantly whether or not they send the item back or try to let the seller resolve the issue. My brother sold a NIB iphone 4 a while back and the buyer said "It wasn't as described" and got his money back and never sent the phone back. Not to mention paypal accused my brother of stealing the phone even though he sent them receipts with the serial numbers. They held his money from other sales for 6 months. I would never use paypal or ebay to sell big ticket items as it is way too easy for someone to scam you. You can find tons of seller horror stories on line.
I'm sure if ebay/paypal wanted to they could easily look into these and uncover scammers but even if someone is repeatedly scamming sellers, ebay/paypal still gets their money from the transaction, the only loser is the little guy. So theres isn't a huge incentive for them to spend a large amount of resources to help sellers. And thats just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to ebay/paypals mistreatment of its sellers.
GBDarkAngel wrote: I will admit that I have not read through the pages of this thread however the inital post is all the OP needs to get his money back.
Paypal or Ebay (whoever issued the refund to the buyer) provides the buyer with an address to send the items too.
If Ebay or Paypal has given the wrong address or admitted its the wrong address then they and they alone are soley and wholly liable for the refund.
Also a refund is never issued until receipt of the returned goods is confirmed so im puzzled as to how you have ended up in this situation.
Sending the item back it is not a requirement for them to get a refund. Normally a buyer is supposed communicate with the seller to resolve the issue but they can just oopen a dispute straight away and say "the item wasn't as described" or "didn't arrive" and they usually get their money back instantly whether or not they send the item back or try to let the seller resolve the issue. My brother sold a NIB iphone 4 a while back and the buyer said "It wasn't as described" and got his money back and never sent the phone back. Not to mention paypal accused my brother of stealing the phone even though he sent them receipts with the serial numbers. They held his money from other sales for 6 months. I would never use paypal or ebay to sell big ticket items as it is way too easy for someone to scam you. You can find tons of seller horror stories on line.
I'm sure if ebay/paypal wanted to they could easily look into these and uncover scammers but even if someone is repeatedly scamming sellers, ebay/paypal still gets their money from the transaction, the only loser is the little guy. So theres isn't a huge incentive for them to spend a large amount of resources to help sellers. And thats just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to ebay/paypals mistreatment of its sellers.
I beg to differ. Its part of the Resolution Centre Process.
You go through all the inital statements, paypal then makes a ruling and if a refund is given then Paypal supplies a Name, Address and Post code for the Items to be returned.
Only when the items are returned is the refund given.
If you want to see this in action I am more than happy to buy that box of models off you for $5 that will be emtpy and ask for a refund. We will go through all the motions and you will see how it works.
I honestly cannot see Paypal UK and USA working differently on this.
eBay and PayPal side with the buyer 99.99% of the time but I am going to dispute this with my bank as I have repeatedly talked to eBay and PayPal with no luck in the dispute.
azazel the cat wrote: Stay away from /b/ it is not your friend; and there are some things that you just cannot un-see.
Actually im a little lost here please explain
/b is a subforum of an online image board without much in the way of limits. No where NEAR as bad as it used to be, but somethings DO occasionally still surface that makes things like (NSFW and you may vomit) Tubgirl, or the better know 2girls1cup seem positively tame in comparison.
/tg/ is a section on 4chan that's focused around board / tabletop games. There's a lot of piracy pdf stuff there that's not going to be discussed, but you also get nice threads / posts sometimes.
azazel the cat wrote: Stay away from /b/ it is not your friend; and there are some things that you just cannot un-see.
Actually im a little lost here please explain
/b is a subforum of an online image board without much in the way of limits. No where NEAR as bad as it used to be, but somethings DO occasionally still surface that makes things like (NSFW and you may vomit) Tubgirl, or the better know 2girls1cup seem positively tame in comparison.
Sigvatr wrote:/tg/ is a section on 4chan that's focused around board / tabletop games. There's a lot of piracy pdf stuff there that's not going to be discussed, but you also get nice threads / posts sometimes.
Never ever visit /b/. Like, really. Don't.
I will do my best not too although my curiosity is now sadly pipqued..... I must be careful lest i find myself inadvertantly taking a trip there
azazel the cat wrote: Stay away from /b/ it is not your friend; and there are some things that you just cannot un-see.
Actually im a little lost here please explain
/b is a subforum of an online image board without much in the way of limits. No where NEAR as bad as it used to be, but somethings DO occasionally still surface that makes things like (NSFW and you may vomit) Tubgirl, or the better know 2girls1cup seem positively tame in comparison.
Sigvatr wrote:/tg/ is a section on 4chan that's focused around board / tabletop games. There's a lot of piracy pdf stuff there that's not going to be discussed, but you also get nice threads / posts sometimes.
Never ever visit /b/. Like, really. Don't.
I will do my best not too although my curiosity is now sadly pipqued..... I must be careful lest i find myself inadvertantly taking a trip there
Just remember that they are not your private army.
azazel the cat wrote: Stay away from /b/ it is not your friend; and there are some things that you just cannot un-see.
Actually im a little lost here please explain
/b is a subforum of an online image board without much in the way of limits. No where NEAR as bad as it used to be, but somethings DO occasionally still surface that makes things like (NSFW and you may vomit) Tubgirl, or the better know 2girls1cup seem positively tame in comparison.
Sigvatr wrote:/tg/ is a section on 4chan that's focused around board / tabletop games. There's a lot of piracy pdf stuff there that's not going to be discussed, but you also get nice threads / posts sometimes.
Never ever visit /b/. Like, really. Don't.
I will do my best not too although my curiosity is now sadly pipqued..... I must be careful lest i find myself inadvertantly taking a trip there
Just remember that they are not your private army.
azazel the cat wrote: Stay away from /b/ it is not your friend; and there are some things that you just cannot un-see.
Actually im a little lost here please explain
/b is a subforum of an online image board without much in the way of limits. No where NEAR as bad as it used to be, but somethings DO occasionally still surface that makes things like (NSFW and you may vomit) Tubgirl, or the better know 2girls1cup seem positively tame in comparison.
Sigvatr wrote:/tg/ is a section on 4chan that's focused around board / tabletop games. There's a lot of piracy pdf stuff there that's not going to be discussed, but you also get nice threads / posts sometimes.
Never ever visit /b/. Like, really. Don't.
I will do my best not too although my curiosity is now sadly pipqued..... I must be careful lest i find myself inadvertantly taking a trip there
Just remember that they are not your private army.
Old "saying" about the place, basically dont try and mobilize them to some cause or go there expecting sympathy of any kind. Logic and human decency is generally left at the door.
Recommend though this gets taken to another thread or something though, getting a good bit off topic and doubt the mods will like /b/ talk more than is necessary haha
azazel the cat wrote: Stay away from /b/ it is not your friend; and there are some things that you just cannot un-see.
Actually im a little lost here please explain
/b is a subforum of an online image board without much in the way of limits. No where NEAR as bad as it used to be, but somethings DO occasionally still surface that makes things like (NSFW and you may vomit) Tubgirl, or the better know 2girls1cup seem positively tame in comparison.
Sigvatr wrote:/tg/ is a section on 4chan that's focused around board / tabletop games. There's a lot of piracy pdf stuff there that's not going to be discussed, but you also get nice threads / posts sometimes.
Never ever visit /b/. Like, really. Don't.
I will do my best not too although my curiosity is now sadly pipqued..... I must be careful lest i find myself inadvertantly taking a trip there
Just remember that they are not your private army.
It's one of the rules of the internet... like rule 34 and what not... Though to be fair, the specific boards on 4chan are very useful when looking for information and don't want to sign up for a website lol. To put it like one person I talked to on 4chan, "/b/ is the board you go to until you find the board that interests you." So it's kind of like the off topic forum, dakka discussions, and the intro forums, users may hang out in these places until they find their board on dakka that they like to visit the most.
Hello,
I am joe pepper. I bought the lamenters army from the seller thehod007 at ebay last year in november.
At first I will say that I will never ever steal another guys army. I am a respected seller and buyer in ebay for many years and I love the tabletop hobby too much to do something like that!
I will tell you the story from my view:
At November the 12th I went to the taxstation in Heidelberg / Germany to pick up the package.
At home I opended the package and became angry. Many item were broken and at some parts the color was gazed. Also parts of the tanks were repaired badly. You can see the gluedots!
In the description of the army thehod007 did nothing say about that.
The items were packed really bad and it seems, that the hod007 did not care how the items will arrive…
I am selling tabletop items for many years and know how to make up an airmail packet. And that packet was really bad!!!
After that thehod suggested a nonserious solution outside of ebay. I became very suspicious and had a phone with ebay. They told me to open a case and not to react to such a nonserious offer.
And then I went the official way ebay told me.
I send the items back to the address ebay gave me:
*snip*
Here are the Tracking numbers. The DHL tracking numer is for Europe and the USPS tracking number ist for the USA:
First one from DHL: 350082606645
Second one from USPS: CL722368017DE
Some weeks later thehod007 took revenge. He manipulates an ebay auction from me. At the end that cost quite some time, nerves and once again 350 dollars because I did not receive back the shipping costs and the tax. And the manipulated ebay auction cost me another 60 dollars!!!
If this was a wrong address and the packet will return to me I will inform the seller and send it to the address he gave to me.
And now you know the story from my view!!!
You can ask yourself the question if it is fair to call me a thief , manipulate my ebay auctions and distribute my name and address in the internet.
Thank you for coming here to respond, I don't think putting his details up publicly is any better than someone putting yours up so please edit your post.
Did you take any photographs of the damage? The poor packaging? I know if I'd have paid that amount of money and something that badly packed and heavily damaged, I'd have taken pictures in advance of any further steps, as evidence of the incident.
I live in Port Saint Lucie and have had all my mail forwarded to my place. Even if it was sent to my old place, I have my ex-roommate currently living there who would pick it up for me. I finally called the post office in Orlando responsible for my parcel and they did not have any packages for me.
All ebay or paypal requires is just a tracking number and he could have sent something as simple as a letter and just used the tracking number. I have researched this subject and many people have been scammed and even to the point of getting in return an empty box.
As to the damage, I contested that I cannot be responsible for damage incurred by shipping overseas and anything can happen he only showed me the pictures and told me I had 10 days to come up with an offer. I offered him $350 as a reimbursement to cover the damages and he accepted the offer. Only to open a case anyways and proved to me that he not trustworthy.
thehod wrote: I live in Port Saint Lucie and have had all my mail forwarded to my place. Even if it was sent to my old place, I have my ex-roommate currently living there who would pick it up for me. I finally called the post office in Orlando responsible for my parcel and they did not have any packages for me.
All ebay or paypal requires is just a tracking number and he could have sent something as simple as a letter and just used the tracking number. I have researched this subject and many people have been scammed and even to the point of getting in return an empty box.
Bullcrap. Both the German DHL number and the USPS one clearly state that it's a parcel sent to ya and that it successfully arrived at the adress you gave him. Given the hard facts, you have zero proof to back up your claims whereas he provided us with any information on the matter backing his idea up. Furthermore, he is a highly respected seller on ebay with his actual customers providing extremely positive feedback on his services, especially in regard to his fast and high quality shipping.
You, as a seller, are required to make sure the package can arrive safely at the destination. You are responsible for packaging it carefully in order to achieve the aforementioned goal, and you *are* responsible for any damage caused if you poorly prepare the package e.g. by not adding enough filler material etc.
As it stands right now, you are making up stories, are a liar, someone to absolutely avoid buying anything from and cause financial damage on purpose - which is the same as any scammer you speak so badly of.
Hello,
i do not know what i can do more, sorry. If the adress was wrong and the packet will be send back to me i will contact the seller of course! And i will also keep my eyes open for the items.
But i also have a highly financel damage and do not make the seller responsible for that in several tabletop forums. That would not be fair!!! So please do not tell everybody my name and call me a thief! I will never ever steal an army from another guy!!!
I am sorry, that the items are lost. But i sent it to the adress ebay gave me. Thats all i can say.
The emails I got from joe stated he sent it to my former address that has the zip code of 32825 (I can show you the screen shots) and the tracking number clearly shows it arrived in Orlando at zip code 32828. Now as I said before even if it went to my old house I have an ex-roommate who would have told me and I called the post office and they have no such package for me.
Here is another fact:
A tracked package will say "DELIVERED" when it arrives at the house for example:
Tracking #:
1Z6274330313603693
Carrier:
UPSGround
Status:
ACCEPTEDIN TRANSITDELIVERED
DELIVERED
Jan-30-13, 13:11 PM, PORT SAINT LUCIE, FL 34984
This is the tracking number he supplied:
CL722368017DE
Priority Mail International Parcels
Arrival at Unit
December 11, 2012, 6:51 am
ORLANDO, FL 32828
Once again the address he sent to was 32825 So either he scammed me or it got lost in the mail and I will apologize to Joe if it is the latter.
Not quite, it arrived in 32828 because that's the USPS distribution center for the zip codes around it.
For example, in Richmond, the main distribution center is in 23220 and services 23220 23221 23223 etc.
Find the post office in 32828, call them, tell them what the tracking info says on the site. I bet that it is sitting in an undeliverable/unclaimed international mail bin because they couldn't read the street address or something, so didn't even forward it to the post office in 32825.
Edit: also, a poorly written '5' can certainly look like an '8'.
japehlio wrote: surely if you now have proof he did not return product to you (different tracking number etc) you can 'counter claim' with paypal?
I had to call ebay over the phone and it was their German call center. The problem is since I dont speak German and their English capable rep had no idea and kept insisting the buyer had a tracking number. I have read various forums about my problem and I am not the only one this has happened to and it is about 99.9999% ebay sides with the buyer over the seller. I provided the seller's ID for people to blacklist him just in case.
Moral of the story: Dont use ebay for selling an army
I have had to deal with a scammer on eBay.
I had an open shut case, and was the buyer too. I backed out of a deal to buy 40K forgeworld tanks when I realised they were forgeworld epic tanks. The seller claimed a non paying buyer, my fight was over keeping my 100% feedback rating. With the
help of people from Warseer I got the sales quashed and the scammer banned.
But it took a while.
eBay kept asking me to open a dialogue to the seller.
I kept asking eBay why I would want to give my phone number and address to a scammer.
The answer was always the same: aka 'deal with it yourself, don't involve us, so long as we get our fees we are ok.'
Eventually I spoke the police and got a crime incident report number.
That week ebay cancelled the auction lots and banned the seller.
thehod wrote: He claimed item not described and said models were broken. I told him that with international shipping I cant be held responsible for what happens during shipment. Before we had a chance to negotiate he went straight for opening a case. The army cost me $2000 including cost of models. I posted his ebay ID and I hope people dont make a $2000 dollar mistake.
$2000 forget ebay, talk to the police. Report a theft.
Find the German electronic fraud police and ask them for advice.
The army posted is clearly items in a four figure value in dollars or euros, as a crime it should be taken seriously.
Sean_OBrien wrote: Unfortunately, the costs of getting a lawyer often out weigh the expenses of the loss.
Even more unfortunate, it isn't that uncommon of a thing to happen (not exactly frequent - but I have had it happen twice to me and have heard similar events from a dozen or so friends as well).
eBay is generally insulated against any action against them - in many cases that laws are actually written in a manner which dictates that what they do in regards to giving the buyer the benefit is in fact mandatory. The burden of proof to demonstrate that you in fact should be legally reimbursed is generally beyond what you can demonstrate under normal circumstances. Even have signature receipts are often not enough as it becomes the word of the buyer versus the word of the seller that the items which were shipped were in fact the items that were received.
I wont sell on ebay at all, wont give the scum my money.
If I have any miniatures to sell, I do it on Dakka.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
judgedoug wrote: Not quite, it arrived in 32828 because that's the USPS distribution center for the zip codes around it.
For example, in Richmond, the main distribution center is in 23220 and services 23220 23221 23223 etc.
Find the post office in 32828, call them, tell them what the tracking info says on the site. I bet that it is sitting in an undeliverable/unclaimed international mail bin because they couldn't read the street address or something, so didn't even forward it to the post office in 32825.
Edit: also, a poorly written '5' can certainly look like an '8'.
Correct, how long ago was this. Items normally sit a month before being returned to sender. RTS address likely featured prominently.
Dakka is a wide community, we have Dakkaites in Orlando. maybe someone can visit the post office.
Seems like a lot of work and potential for reputation blowback on the seller for him to be trying to screw the German buyer. OTOH the buyer is not without his own defense. Very interesting. It's a shame that there aren't better resources provided by ebay/paypal to resolve these types of issues.
Beautiful army BTW. I can believe in the claims of damaged during shipment, but find it hard to believe that the craftsmanship was as poor as the buyer claimed (glu spots et al.) IF the army sent is in fact the one pictured. *not saying it wasn't, just positing that I don't actually have any facts.
I'm not going to comment about the specifics of the case at hand as I'm not privvy to all the details and there seems to be reason to question both sides in this case. But I have a few things to say about the other issues brought up in the thread.
Since about 2000, I have done a large amount of buying and selling via Ebay. (only chumps pay full price for GW product! ) This has mostly been as a buyer, but I've done a fair amount of selling as well. Most of my transactions have gone off without a hitch, but some have gone bad. The thing is that if you do enough Ebaying, you will eventually come across the occasional idiot, jerk, or crook. It's just simple math combined with human nature and it's something you have to accept as cost of doing business when you buy and sell online.
Ebay/Paypal has made it worse in recent years. The big one was to remove the ability to give neutral and negative feedback to buyers. That was a huge mistake in my book as it removed a lot of the acountability that the feedback system had built. I feel that just as the seller has certain responsibilities in a transaction, the buyer has has them as well. Not only does the buyer have the responsibility to provide timely payment, he also needs to act like a decent human being and be willing to work with the seller if something goes wrong. He should not automaticly just slap the seller with a bad feedback rating, blacken his reputation on the feedback forums, etc. The inability of the seller to leave appropriate feedback for jerks gives some the lisence to do whatever they want.
For example it is now my policy to never leave feedback first. If I'm the buyer, I need to get my item before I can give the appropriate feedback and if I'm the seller i want to see that the item is safely in the buyer's hands and evrything is fine before I do so. I see feedback as the last step in a transaction process. I started doing this back around 2003 when I sold three lots of historical miniatures to a single buyer. As soon as he payed, the buyer started pestering me for positive feedback on the transaction, citing his quick payment via Paypal. (this was back when you could accept other forms of payment) Like I fool I left him positive feedback. Sure enough a week later I look at my feedback and saw three new nagtives griping about "shipping damage" and "poor packing". The buyer had made no effort to contact me and let me makes things right. He just hit the negative button, and as I had already left feedback I had no way of leaving feedback that reflected the true nature of the transaction: ie that it had gone bad and that the buyer was an unreasonable jerk to be avoided. So from that day on, I will never leave feedback first as the seller unless i have been in communications with a buyer and know he is happy with the item he bought. It's caused a couple of my transactions to go without feedback at all over the years. But that's fine.
Speaking of damage, it happens. Shipping damage is a fact of life if you buy and sell figures online. No matter how carefully you pack figures, if you ship enough miniatures, eventually something is going to get damaged in transit. The farther the package has to travel and the more hands it passes through the more likely this is to occur. As often as not, damage is caused by poor handling by the post office. The US Post Office in particular is notorious for being staffed with uncaring, disinterested, careless, affirmative action types. This is one of the reasons that I no longer ship overseas on my own auctions. (that and it's just a pain as I hate filling ot the customs forms, I can't use the automatic postage kiosk at the post office, and there is more scope for fraud and other hyjinx with foreign buyers)
My point is that unless there is obvious evidence of haphazzard and negligent packing by the seller, buyers should be reasonable in their expectations in regards to shipping damage and willing to deal with him in making it right. A couple of backpacks popped off models should not be grounds to slap a seller with a negative feedback score and nasty comment. (once again, that happened to me once)
I have not gotten back my army and if you want please do call the US Postal service and reference the tracking number that was supplied. It was the buyer's responsibility to ensure it got to the house and like I said before even if it got my previous address I have an ex-roommate that can sign for that package and all mail is being forwarded to my new address. So until I get back the army, I consider myself scammed out of it.
There's a huge difference, I don't know why Treesong would even bring that up unless he's trying to the stir the pot. Take a second to think before you start accusing people of being hypocrites. I'm going to assume you just didn't pay close to attention to what you quoted.
Certainly it's more serious when things don't turn up than when they do arrive in a damaged condition.
My observation is still to do with how you apportion responsibility, it's not about 'stirring the pot'. When someone sends something to you then it's their responsibility to make sure it arrives properly, when you send stuff to someone else you are quick to shirk that and say that you can't be held responsible for the condition in which it arrives and that 'anything can happen'.
thehod wrote: It was the buyer's responsibility to ensure it got to [my] house...
thehod wrote: As to the damage, I contested that I cannot be responsible for damage incurred by shipping overseas and anything can happen...
Funny how your attitude changes depending on whether you are the one sending or receiving the goods.
I dunno...there's a difference between something arriving a bit beat up and something not arriving at all, wouldn't you say?
On the contrary... if something arrives damaged then it is ultimately the senders fault. If something doesn't arrive at all, then it is probably just as much down to the receiver to call around their local sorting offices to see what happened to it.
From what I have gleaned from this thread, it sounds like the parcel did make it to the US and got misplaced somewhere. The OP posted that he finally called around and they don't have a parcel waiting for him, but this is months after the incident. That should have been investigated straight away. You can't realistically expect the German guy to be calling around sorting offices in the US, when he hardly speaks English.
its me again. I wrote an email to the U.S Postal Service and they send me the tracking list of the packet:
Current Track & Confirm e-mail information provided by the U.S. Postal Service.
Label Number: CL72 2368 017D E
Service Type: International Parcels
Shipment Activity Location Date & Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arrival at Unit ORLANDO FL 32828 12/09/12 7:05am
Processed through USPS JACKSONVILLE FL 32099 12/08/12 4:00am
Sort Facility
Depart USPS Sort JERSEY CITY NJ 07097 12/06/12
Facility
Processed through USPS JERSEY CITY NJ 07097 12/06/12 8:57am
Sort Facility
Origin Post is
Preparing Shipment
Processed Through Sort GERMANY 11/19/12 1:02pm
Facility
Processed Through Sort GERMANY 11/19/12 12:31pm
Facility
Acceptance GERMANY 11/17/12 6:15pm
Maybe they read the 5 as an 8, but the packet arrived! i am really sorry, that the packed got lost. But i am not a thief! So please stop that false accusation.
liuthalis wrote: Maybe they read the 5 as an 8, but the packet arrived!
It looks like they almost certainly did read the 5 as an 8 since it says "Arrival at Unit ORLANDO FL 32828", and the OP hasn't received it. This begs the question, was it insured? Otherwise the only thing I can think to do is go to the address it was delivered to and ask them if they still have it.
All it will take is someone to drive to the 32828 Post Office (every zip code has it's own post office) with the tracking number, and they can look in the Undeliverable Mail bin - which is quite large - and find the package.
It is the onus of the shipper to ensure a parcel arrives safely. While I don't expect him to fly here to do so, it isn't beyond reasonble expectation that he should verify its correct delivery, especially if a poorly written 5 is at fault.
The "5" being read as an "8" does seem to be a likely explanation... I've had a package mis-delivered that was intended for me after a similar error. It was close by, so I was able to drive by the person's house who received it and ask for it .
Yeah...USPS isn't the most reliable, quite honestly. I had a package sit at the post office with a "PROCESSING" status on the tracking because of insufficient postage by 38 cents. They never called me or returned the package; it simply sat there until I called.
How about the OP drive to the post office and inquire in person. If the box is there, then the original buyer refunds the OP the cost of gasoline. Three bucks or so.
The only problem is calling doesn't necessarily mean they will check. I've had to do that before when the employees didn't bother to actually check on the phone, when I went in person they did go look and find a package for me (it was also a poorly written address, street address was 1828 and they read it as something different, like 1528, and there is no 1500 block on that street).
I made a few calls to the post office and DHL. Several hours and faxes later, got things rolling on and the call was made around Monday of this week. I will be going to the post office to see this matter through.
cincydooley wrote: Yeah...USPS isn't the most reliable, quite honestly. I had a package sit at the post office with a "PROCESSING" status on the tracking because of insufficient postage by 38 cents. They never called me or returned the package; it simply sat there until I called.
While I don't doubt your experience, IME USPS is the most reliable postage service in this country. I hear about the same number of complaints about other carriers, but USPS carries far more parcels than any other carrier. UPS carries about an average of 15 million packages a day, compared to USPS 23 million per hour. That's about 38 times the volume.
That might be the case but if they continually leave highly expensive packages on my doorstep when it clearly says sign only I question their competence.
I've had the occasional incompetent postal employee, but speaking to my local postmaster usually sorts that out. I've had a much better success rate with that than with calling UPS' or FedEx's call centers.
cincydooley wrote: Yeah...USPS isn't the most reliable, quite honestly. I had a package sit at the post office with a "PROCESSING" status on the tracking because of insufficient postage by 38 cents. They never called me or returned the package; it simply sat there until I called.
While I don't doubt your experience, IME USPS is the most reliable postage service in this country. I hear about the same number of complaints about other carriers, but USPS carries far more parcels than any other carrier. UPS carries about an average of 15 million packages a day, compared to USPS 23 million per hour. That's about 38 times the volume.
I work shipping and receiving USPS is reliable IF, You go inside and pay for postage. Otherwise don't waste your time Fedex and Ups are better.
Mannahnin wrote: I've had the occasional incompetent postal employee, but speaking to my local postmaster usually sorts that out. I've had a much better success rate with that than with calling UPS' or FedEx's call centers.
I've had multiple bouts of incompetence: I had one guy throw my box with a fully built Keeper of Secrets 8 feet onto my doorstep-I watched him do it. With "Fragile" labeled on the box. I called in and complained: he was promptly fired. I don't even feel slightly guilty for it-turns out he was a temp anyway, but he became REAL temporary. Then I've had USPS label my stuff out for delivery, not deliver it, when I was leaving for work for a week the next day, expecting my package, asked to pick it up and was told "deal with it, get it tomorrow." I've had a student loan check lost and a large paycheck lost as well, when I was broke and was dependent on the paycheck. These are just the ones that come to the top of my head. I've had more. The USPS has shown itself to be crappy to me more than once.
I'd also like to see the outcome of this...let me know when to make the popcorn and see the final showdown!
Don't jump to conclusions Alkasyn, assuming the worst will just lead to the thread getting heated with no response from him because it is a hostile environment and then locked without us ever finding out.
And this is why I don't accept paypal or deal with overseas people. Best thing you can do is require a postal money order or several if its over 200 bucks. Paypal and Ebay are design to protect scammer buyers.
tgf wrote: And this is why I don't accept paypal or deal with overseas people. Best thing you can do is require a postal money order or several if its over 200 bucks. Paypal and Ebay are design to protect scammer buyers.
So far as I can tell no one involved in this was a scammer. It appears to be mostly a misunderstanding, and incompetence on both sides (and by the postal service in the middle). Maybe if people stopped being so paranoid about 'ZOMG! Everyone trying to scam me' and took some simple precautions like writing addresses clearly, packing things properly, and communicating rather than jumping to conclusions. Problems like this could be avoided.
I use paypal a lot, and have sold to people overseas without issue. It's convenient and offers some level of protection to both parties. For larger amounts of money there are always Escrow services. Most people are trustworthy, and business should be easy and pleasant. It's when people start acting like it's some sort of hostage negotiation, and start making wild accusations that things get out of hand.
tgf wrote: And this is why I don't accept paypal or deal with overseas people. Best thing you can do is require a postal money order or several if its over 200 bucks. Paypal and Ebay are design to protect scammer buyers.
In the UK you HAVE to accept PayPal payments on eBay - desipte this being a direct violation of competition laws. Unfortunately the competition commission can't be bothered to do anything about it.
tgf wrote: And this is why I don't accept paypal or deal with overseas people. Best thing you can do is require a postal money order or several if its over 200 bucks. Paypal and Ebay are design to protect scammer buyers.
So far as I can tell no one involved in this was a scammer. It appears to be mostly a misunderstanding, and incompetence on both sides (and by the postal service in the middle). Maybe if people stopped being so paranoid about 'ZOMG! Everyone trying to scam me' and took some simple precautions like writing addresses clearly, packing things properly, and communicating rather than jumping to conclusions. Problems like this could be avoided.
I use paypal a lot, and have sold to people overseas without issue. It's convenient and offers some level of protection to both parties. For larger amounts of money there are always Escrow services. Most people are trustworthy, and business should be easy and pleasant. It's when people start acting like it's some sort of hostage negotiation, and start making wild accusations that things get out of hand.
This about sums it up.
Napoleon wrote:"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence"
When packing and labeling minis for over seas shipping assume that the package will be hurled across the room by nearsighted gorillas.
Smacks wrote: Maybe if people stopped being so paranoid about 'ZOMG! Everyone trying to scam me' and took some simple precautions like writing addresses clearly, packing things properly, and communicating rather than jumping to conclusions. Problems like this could be avoided.
thehod did not contact me, yet. i do not know, if he found the parcel at the usps station. All i want is that everybody knows, that i am not a thief!
I hope he will find his items at the usps station and that this nightmare comes to an end.
Perhaps mods can put some pressure on him to give closure to this issue? He slung a lot of mud and should be held accountable for it. If he got the items, he needs to fess up that it was all a simple error. Him not posting here is just shedding negative light on him, far more than if he admitted some mistake.
Janthkin wrote: Or perhaps uninvolved parties could stop bumping the thread and stirring the pot?
I don't think we're complely uninvolved. I, as a wargamer, feel offended by people stirring up anger against other users because of their own lazyness / misinformation and then suddenly disappear.
Janthkin wrote: Or perhaps uninvolved parties could stop bumping the thread and stirring the pot?
I don't think we're complely uninvolved. I, as a wargamer, feel offended by people stirring up anger against other users because of their own lazyness / misinformation and then suddenly disappear.
I agree, especially when the buyer is proactively trying to get this cleared up.
The community should be helping to bring a good and healthy environment for trading and gaming, you as a mod discouraging people to help the buyer clarify his name is kinda of a weird thing.
I disagree. The buyer Forced a refund via Paypal, then his return shipment didn't get to the seller. A beautiful army like that getting shipped twice internationally due to buyer's remorse sucks. As of now, the seller is out the money And the beautiful army. If the zip code was mis-written by the buyer it may have been misdelivered and the seller may never get it back. Something that expensive should be shipped insured and signature required.
As of now, the seller is out everything, and the "buyer" is out nothing. So please, unless you have new info do not assume anything about thehod, or the buyer. Clusterfeths like this are why I only buy internationally via Paypal, and do not sell- the protection is all for the buyer.
RiTides wrote: I disagree. The buyer Forced a refund via Paypal, then his return shipment didn't get to the seller. A beautiful army like that getting shipped twice internationally due to buyer's remorse sucks. As of now, the seller is out the money And the beautiful army. If the zip code was mis-written by the buyer it may have been misdelivered and the seller may never get it back. Something that expensive should be shipped insured and signature required.
As of now, the seller is out everything, and the "buyer" is out nothing. So please, unless you have new info do not assume anything about thehod, or the buyer. Clusterfeths like this are why I only buy internationally via Paypal, and do not sell- the protection is all for the buyer.
Well I think everybody is really just concerned about what is happening in this case and would like to know what is happening and see if they can help.
That's the problem too, we don't know if there is the return shipment is found or not because thehod has not updated the status of this event.
To be fair though, if you bought a beautiful army and it was all broken when it arrived, you wouldn't want it either.
It might suck for the buyer but that's a risk that you have to take for using paypal's service and not getting insurance.
Anyway, I'm not saying whose fault it is, but with such strong accusations it would be fair to ask for an update from to see the progress of this event.
Sorry for bumping this thread if we are not allowed to comment on such an event and raise concerns about this case.
RiTides wrote: I disagree. The buyer Forced a refund via Paypal, then his return shipment didn't get to the seller. A beautiful army like that getting shipped twice internationally due to buyer's remorse sucks. As of now, the seller is out the money And the beautiful army. If the zip code was mis-written by the buyer it may have been misdelivered and the seller may never get it back. Something that expensive should be shipped insured and signature required.
As of now, the seller is out everything, and the "buyer" is out nothing. So please, unless you have new info do not assume anything about thehod, or the buyer. Clusterfeths like this are why I only buy internationally via Paypal, and do not sell- the protection is all for the buyer.
Isn't 'buyers remorse' an assumption? The buyer claimed the army was damaged. Which it could have been if it was not packed well enough. He also claimed that he only forced the refund after the OP failed to straighten things out. TheHod did post here saying that he can't be held responsible for damage caused by international shipping. So it is no great leap of imagination to conclude that he didn't think it was his responsibility to fix. If that was his attitude then forcing the refund might have been the only option. Of course it was his responsibility. He was the one who packed it, and was paid a lot of money for the army. It should have been able to survive trip there and back no problem.
RiTides wrote: If the zip code was mis-written by the buyer.
Could also be an idiot/drunk/over-the-hill-old post office employee who can't read properly.
The OP brought this story/thread to us though (in the general discussions forum), so nobody can be blamed to want to know how it ends. People might have been waiting to do business with either one of the parties involved to see the outcome. It is very strange at least that this seemed to be only a trip to a post offcie away of potentially being solved, and it suddenly went quiet.
I don't blame people for wanting to know how it ends- all I was trying to say is, put away the pitchforks, it's possible the OP is still out a beautiful army And the payment.
I think damage is possible even on well packed international shipments. Add to that Paypal's bias to the buyer, and that's why I'd never sell something like this internationally.
Note: This isn't a transaction report or in the Swap Shop. Both of these posts are just my opinion. I also think that the buyer should have insured/gotten signature required on the return shipment, and it would simply be a failed sale. As it is, it could be much worse.
Also, I apologize if my prior post came off too strongly. Simply, I am saying we have no new information, so don't assume the OP got the army back (or anything about the buyer- again, apologies if I did so).
RiTides wrote: I don't blame people for wanting to know how it ends- all I was trying to say is, put away the pitchforks, it's possible the OP is still out a beautiful army And the payment.
I think damage is possible even on well packed international shipments. Add to that Paypal's bias to the buyer, and that's why I'd never sell something like this internationally.
Note: This isn't a transaction report or in the Swap Shop. Both of these posts are just my opinion. I also think that the buyer should have insured/gotten signature required on the return shipment, and it would simply be a failed sale. As it is, it could be much worse.
Also, I apologize if my prior post came off too strongly. Simply, I am saying we have no new information, so don't assume the OP got the army back (or anything about the buyer- again, apologies if I did so).
However, we are rightful to assume that if the buyer contacted us here in this very thread after sending back the army and asked for clarification from the seller ( which puts him in a better position than the seller who just went quiet ) that the buyer indeed has done everything he could to get the army back to the seller.
The fact that the seller is not forthcoming with any info and suddenly disappeared does not add credence to his story.
Also, do note that the thread is titled "Stolen army" which is a strong accusation that now just amounts to libel.
Real life work has delayed my posting. I apologize for that. I got the army from the post office last week and 2 trips across the seas has taken its toll on the damages.
As for the accusations, considering it took 4 months for the army to come back I assumed the worse and thought the army was stolen. This thread served its purpose and I got the army back which was the goal and thank you for the buyer for coming on and I have no ill will towards him.
This is a classic case miscommunication and misunderstanding.
I will also say that PayPal and eBay need to consolidate their resolution center because it had been an extremely frustrating experience trying to navigate a resolution center in German and talking to German reps.
) This has mostly been as a buyer, but I've done a fair amount of selling as well. Most of my transactions have gone off without a hitch, but some have gone bad. The thing is that if you do enough Ebaying, you will eventually come across the occasional idiot, jerk, or crook. It's just simple math combined with human nature and it's something you have to accept as cost of doing business when you buy and sell online.
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