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I recently sold a Lamentors army on Ebay and the buyer complained about the army and wanted a refund. He had buyers remorse and straight away opened a case and won so I lost the money from the auction. He said he sent it back but after a month of waiting (he lives in Germany) I emailed him asking what happened and no reply. I contacted ebay but had to go through the German site (because he opened the case in the German site) and I complained the package never arrived. They said he supplied a tracking number but it was not my address and could not give me back the money that was automatically refunded to him. So not only am I out an army but I lost the money from that auction. The buyer is joe_pepper on ebay. This guy not only scammed me but also stole an army so be on the lookout if he tries to resell. I have his name and address and will give it out if you PM me.






https://picasaweb.google.com/100059515749203595775/Lamentors

Edit: Sorry about this comment/

Sorry to hear about it!

Will keep an eye out for you!

surely if you now have proof he did not return product to you (different tracking number etc) you can 'counter claim' with paypal?

Comments like yours are not helpful. True, but he has since done the honourable thing and edited it out, so removing the offending quote to calm any further miss feelings - MDS

On topic, sorry to hear that.

Ouch mate,i feel for you.I will keep my ebay eyes peeled.

 japehlio wrote:
surely if you now have proof he did not return product to you (different tracking number etc) you can 'counter claim' with paypal?

I had to call ebay over the phone and it was their German call center. The problem is since I dont speak German and their English capable rep had no idea and kept insisting the buyer had a tracking number. I have read various forums about my problem and I am not the only one this has happened to and it is about 99.9999% ebay sides with the buyer over the seller. I provided the seller's ID for people to blacklist him just in case.

Moral of the story: Dont use ebay for selling an army

Don't you know anyone in Germany? You could sue either ebay or the buyer himself via ebay :/

Mate I feel bad for you, it's a lovely army.....good luck with it. Hope you get on ok?

A damn shame. So odd that they can take the money when the product is the same.

Didn't mean to be bugging you sorry ;(
Awesome paint job as well.
Also what did he complain about?

He claimed item not described and said models were broken. I told him that with international shipping I cant be held responsible for what happens during shipment. Before we had a chance to negotiate he went straight for opening a case. The army cost me $2000 including cost of models. I posted his ebay ID and I hope people dont make a $2000 dollar mistake.

Unless you manage to somehow get back in touch, I'd say the legal aka get a lawyer way is the only way left right now :/

People, especially in Germany, tend to worry a lot when they suddenly receive a formal letter by a lawyer.

 thehod wrote:

Moral of the story: Dont use ebay for selling an army

Don't use Ebay.

I'm sorry to hear about this, mate. I remember how crushed I was when someone had stolen a single miniature from me, but an entire army? (even one that is to be sold.) That sucks.

I'm hoping for you, mate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Unless you manage to somehow get back in touch, I'd say the legal aka get a lawyer way is the only way left right now :/

People, especially in Germany, tend to worry a lot when they suddenly receive a formal letter by a lawyer.

Are lawyers a thing in Germany? Don't you have a more inquisitorial approach to law?

Or does Germany use the adversarial system?

 thehod wrote:
I recently sold a Lamentors army on Ebay and the buyer complained about the army and wanted a refund. He had buyers remorse and straight away opened a case and won so I lost the money from the auction. He said he sent it back but after a month of waiting (he lives in Germany) I emailed him asking what happened and no reply. I contacted ebay but had to go through the German site (because he opened the case in the German site) and I complained the package never arrived. They said he supplied a tracking number but it was not my address and could not give me back the money that was automatically refunded to him. So not only am I out an army but I lost the money from that auction. The buyer is joe_pepper on ebay. This guy not only scammed me but also stole an army so be on the lookout if he tries to resell. I have his name and address and will give it out if you PM me.

Shall we re-post pics of your lost army at German forums to see if this army re-emerges again from being tracked?

 1hadhq wrote:

 thehod wrote:
I recently sold a Lamentors army on Ebay and the buyer complained about the army and wanted a refund. He had buyers remorse and straight away opened a case and won so I lost the money from the auction. He said he sent it back but after a month of waiting (he lives in Germany) I emailed him asking what happened and no reply. I contacted ebay but had to go through the German site (because he opened the case in the German site) and I complained the package never arrived. They said he supplied a tracking number but it was not my address and could not give me back the money that was automatically refunded to him. So not only am I out an army but I lost the money from that auction. The buyer is joe_pepper on ebay. This guy not only scammed me but also stole an army so be on the lookout if he tries to resell. I have his name and address and will give it out if you PM me.

Shall we re-post pics of your lost army at German forums to see if this army re-emerges again from being tracked?

Good idea actually. The 40K community is not that big and have specific circles of peers within a locale. That army will come up, probably to be sold in pieces. Generally this will be hidden for several months before it trying to be fenced. Check pawn shops or places for bartering though.

This person whole stole your army needs to be stopped.

Scipio Africanus wrote:


Are lawyers a thing in Germany? Don't you have a more inquisitorial approach to law?

Or does Germany use the adversarial system?

Lawyers are a big thing in civil cases in Germany. Receiving a formal letter from a lawyer will force you to act, especially when it comes to bigger companies like ebay...it's bad publicity for them and ultimately, what they will do is getting back in contact with the former buyer and forcing him to properly reply.

Awful story.. I'd be massively pissed.

Pissed enough to spend more money to crush the bastard.

I suggest proper legal advice.

If you need help with translating stuff or communicating with ebay, feel free to ask / PM me. I'm a German <=> English translator and would love to somehow help you out.

Agree, this is the type of thing where I would spend a dollar to save ten cents.

So have you looked up the address of the tracking number? Maybe if you can get the person of the address of the package he sent to show it wasn't shipped to them.

You have his name and address correct? Seems like you could do something with a German lawyer. A Simple generated letter is usually enough to get action.

that's nice paint, what a shame.

im appalled at ebay. do they even fully investigate these cases? did the buyer provide clear pictures showing all the damage? they dont check the tracking number or the address he provided?

I am not the only one this happens to as far as sellers getting scammed.


http://voices.yahoo.com/buyers-ebay-scammers-too-201558.html

A damn shame.

kb305 wrote:
im appalled at ebay. do they even fully investigate these cases? did the buyer provide clear pictures showing all the damage? they dont check the tracking number or the address he provided?

Language barrier, like he said.

Shipping overseas is always iffy. Even if he had sent the army back, would you want the damaged goods? After 2 trips who knows how banged up it is.

But yes, I'd check out lawyer options.

What a shame to lose such a well painted army. I suggest packing your suitcase getting on a plane and giving him a $2000 butt kicking.

Short of that get a lawyer or report him to the police, what he has done is theft. Works over here in the UK.

Unfortunately, the costs of getting a lawyer often out weigh the expenses of the loss.

Even more unfortunate, it isn't that uncommon of a thing to happen (not exactly frequent - but I have had it happen twice to me and have heard similar events from a dozen or so friends as well).

eBay is generally insulated against any action against them - in many cases that laws are actually written in a manner which dictates that what they do in regards to giving the buyer the benefit is in fact mandatory. The burden of proof to demonstrate that you in fact should be legally reimbursed is generally beyond what you can demonstrate under normal circumstances. Even have signature receipts are often not enough as it becomes the word of the buyer versus the word of the seller that the items which were shipped were in fact the items that were received.

On getting the product returned after a dispute - that isn't even often a requirement under the law. When it is, it is generally the responsibility of the seller to provide all the various shipping and other arrangements. Under normal circumstances, they don't treat the hobbyist who sells a half dozen items on eBay a year any different then they treat Amazon who sells millions of items a year through their own website. Of course, Amazon has the ability to absorb a $2000 loss without so much as a blink...while that might be enough to seriously dent a hobbyist's personal finances.

The morale of the story ends up being...never rely on money from an eBay (or other) sale. There is no guarantee you will actually get it, and there is a possibility you will loose both the money and the item you were trying to sell with little recourse to actually recover either.

Yeah, sad as it is to say, I stopped selling anything on eBay several years ago, and now only buy there.

In this case, I'd calmly but firmly get eBay US to do it, and if the first-tier call centre drones don't give you any help, ask to speak to their team leaders. Just keep escalating it there until you get someone who is willing to help you, explaining calmly but firmly that you don't speak German and you need someone who speaks English to help you.

rigeld2 wrote:
Even if he had sent the army back, would you want the damaged goods? After 2 trips who knows how banged up it is.

Rather than being out both the money AND the army? I think the answer to that question is obvious...

Let me get this straight, you spent hundreds of hours painting that army to such a standard and spent hundreds of dollars assembling it, and then some lowlife scumbag just scammed you straight out of it for free in a sale? That really is incredible, I'm glad I haven't bought second hand armies off of it for Christmas, I would have been outraged if I had been on the receiving end of that.

This same sort of thing happened to me about six years ago with a buyer from Germany as well. When i was in high school and college I sold about $400-600 or so a month of painted minis on Ebay for extra cash. I had sold a few hundred dollars worth of Warmachine mini's to someone there, they opened up a dispute and I was out the mini's and the money. I just in the past 8 months started using Ebay again to just buy things.