67276
Post by: Etched In Pride
So the pre orders are up on the GW site.
Whats everyone think? I like the few package deals they have and the termis look nice.
The flyer that doesn't have the shrine on it looks really cool as well.
48009
Post by: XT-1984
I think a lot of the models look much better in these new pictures.
I won't be getting any but I am excited to play against the new codex.
£120 for 15 Terminators and a Commander though? Lol
51365
Post by: kb305
i really like all the new models except the landspeeder.
even the dark talon is sweet looking and this is coming from someone who doesnt like any of the other GW fliers.
33774
Post by: tgf
I am a DA player and this release really didn't offer me any new models other than the flyers which does not look impressive not knowing the stats. This might end up being a very cheap release. My DW already has a nicely converted command squad with FW shoulders, they actually look better than the new models. I need to see the new flyer rules to determine if its worth 75 lol's.
48793
Post by: NEWater
I just pre-ordered two flyer boxes right away. Like the previous poster said: I already have pretty sweet DW models with FW shoulders as well. Maybe I'll buy one RW Knight box for taste, just to have the lol factor of having bikes with plasmaguns. But that's it.
38926
Post by: Exergy
Love the robed terminators even if the idea is kind dumb. robes in general on power armor guys are dumb but look so cool. Going to be buying some of them but probably just keeping them as regular termites.
Hate the speeder
The flyer is meh and really expensive compared to the stormtalon which isnt much bigger
The bikes are ok, but the ravenwing already had sets of nice bikes.
59924
Post by: RegalPhantom
The short version is that I like the flyers and the terminators, I think the Ravenwing are ok but cluttered, and the speeder would be the best model of the bunch but it is ruined by the forward gunner.
54112
Post by: Dr. What
The first one is a case of the Imperium looting Tau Ion Cannons.
The second one fires weaponized religion.
Has anybody noticed the $0.50 price on the DA codex, compared to the CSM codex?
27391
Post by: purplefood
I think his issue was with the absurd turret on the front...
Though the rest of it is silly as well.
To be honest the 1st ed landspeeder was probably the best one...
63313
Post by: Zachariel
As a DA player myself I'm pretty excited about the release, hopefully there are good options for Greenwing, this release is mostly RW/DW (not that I mind, per se, but It'd be nice to put some green on the table),
I find myself liking the vengeance more and more, and I might get one just because the turret guy for the darkshroud looks like a DJ, so many possibilities for hilarious conversions.
I like belial a bit more now, but I think I'll stick with my converted one (hopefully belial can still use the TH/SS loadout.)
At least I know where to put all my christmas money.
40635
Post by: andtheyshallknownofear
I think that DA has gone the same way as BA and GK, with new models (especially in the case of flyers) that look half assed. I mean really, that landspeader looks like it shouldn't be capable of movement, never mind flight. It just looks stupid and poorly thought out. I mean, look at the valkyrie or the old landspeader. Those are some sick flyers. Even the new Dakka jets look really nice and orky. But the storm talon, storm raven and now these two? They really look like the modelers just wanted to stick some new flyers out for space marines and had no idea what to do. I am really disappointed. I hope that in the future the will be able to make models that the you don't target just to get it off the field 
44276
Post by: Lobokai
I just want a peak at the RavenWing rules. Hopefully they get either better reserve control or ability to assault while outflanking or something
51365
Post by: kb305
yup that turret is terrible looking.
it looks like they ripped the balcony off a rich guys house and decided to stick it onto the front of the vehicle.
why not leave a guy in the passenger seat holding the assaultcannon normally.
out of the lot it looks like it's going to be biggest pain to assemble/paint. three marines + the stainglass passenger window and cockpit controls. oh joy
45308
Post by: riverhawks32
The Belial model is absolutely horrendous. The sculpt is nice. The person that posed him...Oh my they need help. The speeder is meh, fliers are HAWT. Deathwing knights and codex are what I pre-ordered. It is a good thing that I am already addicted, those prices ensure the prevention of new blood into the hobby.
11564
Post by: Brothererekose
Asmodai, being back.  I don't see a drastic improvement over the old model bad-ass-ness, so I see no need to purchase the new one. The Stats listed mean he's smacking at Init5, cool. 5 attacks on the charge (3 posted, pistol ((not listed on his wargear, but on his hip??)) and charge).
And is he going to still have some sort of VicPoint thing with his "Blades of Reason" ?
Even if DAs in general don't get the bp/ ccw and bolter like SW, I might field 'em again. But buy the new codex? No.
I got burned on the C: CSM. I'll finally succumb to the Internet's Nefariousness and find a free download version. $50 is too much. $33 felt like too much.
Lastly, the two speeders are ... over priced ... and being a Los Angeles, native, I see a lot of long assed, superfluous, stupid limousines; like the Humvee stretches with a hot-tub, limos ... well, these two models remind me of these. Were the Hull Points listed? *checks* nope. They better be 3 frakking HPs for the $66 damned dollars. 
As for the termie models? I've the Dark Vengeance ones and ... unless the "Knights" have some kick-ass game mechanics, I'll stick with Wolf Guard for my termie needs.
Bitch, bitch, bitch. Whine, piss and moan.
67877
Post by: TimmyTheNerd
1. I like that they gave us a Termie kit that can be a Command Squad, Knights or regular Deathwing....AND comes with a Watcher in the Dark.
2. Scouts are now troops according to the new DA army section.
As a newb to War40k though, don't really know if anything I listed is a good thing or not, just something that I like.
43032
Post by: King Pariah
It looks okay overall, except that flier. Hideous!
54708
Post by: TheCustomLime
Think of it this way, gents. If the Landspeeder is immobilied, it can also function as an altar!
52163
Post by: Shandara
The bundles offer such a great discount as usual.
I had to doublecheck the Ravenwing bundle to see if it really includes that few models for that much money... I kept wondering if the picture had cut off, not showing 5 more boxes.
47278
Post by: Wandre
$50 for a codex is total nonsense (Hello PDF)
$60 for plastic terminators (eBay more metal DW)
$22 for belial (See above)
I have no idea why people call this crack.
It's heroin.
51365
Post by: kb305
the DA terminators are only 10 more than vanilla terminators. doesnt seem TOO bad to me since the kit appears to have alot of options atleast.
55909
Post by: gianlucafiorentini123
Overall I like the new minis, my only complaints would be the fact that the command squads banner is on a back, and not in a hand. Also the distinct lack of green, it feels like for the past two 40k releases GW has neglected the core of the army with the Dark Angels having a distinct lack of green and CSM a lack of marines.
51365
Post by: kb305
you realize you can use all the regular marine kits for dark angels right?
you dont need any green. marines already have a full range.
there's also dark ven tactical squads.
4139
Post by: wuestenfux
Well, the codex seems to cost three euro more than the chaos one.
I will build up a DA detachment with 10 DW Termies and 12 RW Bikers. Have already half of them from DV.
The Speeder with the Altar looks rediculous. But I guess that the Altar gives some bonus.
55909
Post by: gianlucafiorentini123
kb305 wrote:you realize you can use all the regular marine kits for dark angels right?
you dont need any green. marines already have a full range.
there's also dark ven tactical squads.
I know that, but I was just saying I would have liked to see something new for the 80% of the chapter which is not in the first two companies.
4001
Post by: Compel
So, anyone worked out plans already on how to convert a Dark Talon into a storm Talon?
24196
Post by: KingDeath
kb305 wrote:the DA terminators are only 10 more than vanilla terminators. doesnt seem TOO bad to me since the kit appears to have alot of options atleast.
It is a price increase of almost 30% yet you can still only get 5 Terminators from the box. On the bright side, most of the new miniatures look at least adequate.
4001
Post by: Compel
What an odd day to do maintenance...
Or have the Dark Angel players actually brought GW's UK site down?
46864
Post by: Deadshot
I dislike all the new models, bar a few select Terminators (Plasma Cannoner, the Mace/Shield guys, the Banner) but the rest look awful. The new vehicles look horrible too. The Ravenwing are ok, but Plasmabikes are just uncalled for. The Apothecary is awful, especially with the Mk VI helmet.
Asmodai is even more badass than ever, but they could have made his robes more like the DV chaplain. Right now it looks like a dress, whereas DV had a cloak and tabbard.
67700
Post by: SavageRobby
The Knights are the best of the release in my eyes. Not a big fan of the entire command squad, although I like some of the options available. I got one box right away, and I'll see what's left after building a squad of Knights. Should be plenty enough bits to combine with a normal Termie box to come up with some cool options.
I did the monster plasma cannon Vengeance. It looks a bit unwieldy, but not moreso than plenty of other models. It also looks mean, and that cannon is menacing. Hope its decent stat-wise.
Everything else looks good, but not good enough to get without reading through the Codex first. Although if the Jetfighters are decent, I can definitely see acquiring a few of them.
4139
Post by: wuestenfux
Well, for a DA player the new release is certainly an Eldorado. But you don't have to look too much at the prices.
7637
Post by: Sasori
The Termies look awesome, very very well done. I wish Chaos had a kit that looked that good, for their Termies!
I like the Flyers as well, they took the Stormtalon Chassis and made it look really good.
Not a fan of the Bikes, but I don't like bike aesthetically anyway, so I may be a bit biased in that situation.
The Landspeeder is just terrible. Upon further inspection, it's really that Front gunner that does it. if the AC had been underslung, and that part was normal, I think it may have ended up looking awesome.
I hope they have something more going for them, than the AV 10 listed on the website, otherwise I don't see those being taken.
Asmodai is ok, Belial is in a rather boring pose.
Overallthe Termies and Flyers look pretty neat, everything else is meh or a travesty.
63092
Post by: MarsNZ
Jumped onto the GW page to take a look just for a laugh... NZD 460.
I got what I came for.
62238
Post by: MarkyMark
Few random thoughts had while reading the white dwarf.
First thoughts, flyers 2 of them,milk for the cash cow!, avenger mega bolter on one and rift cannon on the other, interesting sounding weapons, also very interesting that they get two flyers, chaos only got one and most other codexs only have one.
Also, terminators, all have mace's, will there be special rules for these? as termies with ap4 weapons, no thanks! So reading the bat rep they have a smite mode, s10 ap2 for a turn, is this seems this is a one per game, whats the stats when its not smite mode!!
and both flyers are fast attack, shame there is no TH SS termies in the bat rep, will they still be avaliable to dark angels? if not doubt i'll keep the codex..
Just pre ordered the codex, belial (even though its a bit of a pants model, not sure if its the picture but the feet look like they are facing inwards!) and the flyer. I already have 25 CC termies and 25 ranged termies so whether or not I keep the codex will depend on if DA can still take TH/SS termies and LC termies, with the deathwing knights have these maces of absoultion I am not 100% sure they will?
51464
Post by: Veteran Sergeant
Both the flyers and the speeder are hideous. I mean, the Dark Angels flyer looks better than the Stormtalon, but that's like saying gingivitis is better than lip cancer. No thanks to either of them, lol. Have standards been set so low by the Stormtalon that people are just relieved that this is slightly less hideous?
62238
Post by: MarkyMark
I wont be putting all the junk on them thats for sure!, I just want to use a rift cannon or mega bolter! ha
43778
Post by: Pouncey
That's really freaky.
Yesterday afternoon, just as I was going to bed, I was thinking, "Why not give a bike commander or sergeant an option to upgrade the bike's twin-linked boltguns to combi-weapons or plasma/meltaguns/flamers?"
And the new Ravenwing Command Squad is depicted with plasma guns in place of their boltguns...
Anyways, the new models look awesome.
64716
Post by: Guardsman Bane
Geez you people moan a lot. Never bloody happy, are you? I think the new models are pretty cool, except maybe the landspeeder with the shrine. And to the person who pointed out the $0.50 increase on the codex, if you quibble over half a buck you're in the wrong hobby mate. Honestly, an old codex gets an update along with with some new models and the majority of you just shoot it down? What do you all LIKE about your hobby?
43778
Post by: Pouncey
 Guardsman Bane wrote:Geez you people moan a lot. Never bloody happy, are you? I think the new models are pretty cool, except maybe the landspeeder with the shrine. And to the person who pointed out the $0.50 increase on the codex, if you quibble over half a buck you're in the wrong hobby mate. Honestly, an old codex gets an update along with with some new models and the majority of you just shoot it down? What do you all LIKE about your hobby?
I wasn't complaining...
7637
Post by: Sasori
Guardsman Bane wrote:Geez you people moan a lot. Never bloody happy, are you? I think the new models are pretty cool, except maybe the landspeeder with the shrine. And to the person who pointed out the $0.50 increase on the codex, if you quibble over half a buck you're in the wrong hobby mate. Honestly, an old codex gets an update along with with some new models and the majority of you just shoot it down? What do you all LIKE about your hobby?
Yeah! People shouldn't have different opinions about things! How dare they!
67239
Post by: Chalkybot
If that land speeder didn't have the turret it would look so much cooler, i love the rest of the models (except belial and my knights will have helmets!) though the lack of Green is strange! Might have gone a bit overboard on the variant companies but i guess that is what makes them unique enough to warrant a stand alone codex. The way i see it we now have more options than before!
38926
Post by: Exergy
Chalkybot wrote:If that land speeder didn't have the turret it would look so much cooler, i love the rest of the models (except belial and my knights will have helmets!) though the lack of Green is strange! Might have gone a bit overboard on the variant companies but i guess that is what makes them unique enough to warrant a stand alone codex. The way i see it we now have more options than before!
the varient companies are what make DA DA. They have tons of green marines, those green marines are basically just like blue marines with green paint. Just like BA. BA tactical squads are just like blue tactical squads but with red paint. Automatically Appended Next Post: you can look at the GW site
DA have green devistators, which are just like red or blue devistators but with green paint!
DA have land raiders, with green paint(or black or bone)
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/landingArmy.jsp?catId=cat860005a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k
note that the new land speeder is in FA and HS. Guessing the plasma variety is HS.
39296
Post by: gpfunk
I'm going to pick up a the Terminator box just to build the Knights of the Inner Circle or whatever. Don't really have any DA aside from the Dark Vengeance models, but I think the Knights look pretty damn good.
All in all its a pretty good release. Obviously people are complaining about the Land Speeder, but you can probably just do some creative kit bashing and cutting to make the damn autocannon underslung. It's a hobby after all, might as well do some hobby work on your hobby model.
38926
Post by: Exergy
 gpfunk wrote:I'm going to pick up a the Terminator box just to build the Knights of the Inner Circle or whatever. Don't really have any DA aside from the Dark Vengeance models, but I think the Knights look pretty damn good.
All in all its a pretty good release. Obviously people are complaining about the Land Speeder, but you can probably just do some creative kit bashing and cutting to make the damn autocannon underslung. It's a hobby after all, might as well do some hobby work on your hobby model.
I just used the front of my old 3rd edition landspeeder on another project. Would have worked great or I could have sold it. O well.
43778
Post by: Pouncey
MarkyMark wrote:
and both flyers are fast attack, shame there is no TH SS termies in the bat rep, will they still be avaliable to dark angels? if not doubt i'll keep the codex.
One of the example pictures of the Terminators shows him with a Thunder Hammer (not a power maul) and Storm Shield. ^^
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2860443a_99120101096_Deathwing03_873x627.jpg
60351
Post by: alanmckenzie
 andtheyshallknownofear wrote:I think that DA has gone the same way as BA and GK, with new models (especially in the case of flyers) that look half assed. I mean really, that landspeader looks like it shouldn't be capable of movement, never mind flight. It just looks stupid and poorly thought out. I mean, look at the valkyrie or the old landspeader. Those are some sick flyers. Even the new Dakka jets look really nice and orky. But the storm talon, storm raven and now these two? They really look like the modelers just wanted to stick some new flyers out for space marines and had no idea what to do. I am really disappointed. I hope that in the future the will be able to make models that the you don't target just to get it off the field
Agree with all of this 100%. The land speeder is silly. I'll suggest that the talon without all the shriney stuff looks ok, but that's only compared to other sm flyers. And £120 for 15 terminators and a character is very expensive, they are now very much running the risk of losing even the comfortably well off customer.
43778
Post by: Pouncey
 alanmckenzie wrote: andtheyshallknownofear wrote:I think that DA has gone the same way as BA and GK, with new models (especially in the case of flyers) that look half assed. I mean really, that landspeader looks like it shouldn't be capable of movement, never mind flight. It just looks stupid and poorly thought out. I mean, look at the valkyrie or the old landspeader. Those are some sick flyers. Even the new Dakka jets look really nice and orky. But the storm talon, storm raven and now these two? They really look like the modelers just wanted to stick some new flyers out for space marines and had no idea what to do. I am really disappointed. I hope that in the future the will be able to make models that the you don't target just to get it off the field
Agree with all of this 100%. The land speeder is silly. I'll suggest that the talon without all the shriney stuff looks ok, but that's only compared to other sm flyers. And £120 for 15 terminators and a character is very expensive, they are now very much running the risk of losing even the comfortably well off customer.
For a comparison, 5 of these Terminators cost 70 dollars before taxes. A typical Battle Sisters Squad costs a bit more than 90 dollars before taxes, and includes 7 with Boltguns (they're sold in packs of 3, so I divided the pack of a blister by 3 to get individual cost, then multiplied by 7 for the number of Sisters in a typical squad), 1 special weapon, 1 heavy weapon, and 1 Superior.
Depending on loadout, the Battle Sisters Squad costs about 150 to 180 points. I can't imagine 5 Space Marine Terminators costing anything less than 200 points.
62238
Post by: MarkyMark
exalted and thanks!, will keep the codex for now then, just didnt want to have to buy a load more models when I already have plently of termies.
60351
Post by: alanmckenzie
 Pouncey wrote: alanmckenzie wrote: andtheyshallknownofear wrote:I think that DA has gone the same way as BA and GK, with new models (especially in the case of flyers) that look half assed. I mean really, that landspeader looks like it shouldn't be capable of movement, never mind flight. It just looks stupid and poorly thought out. I mean, look at the valkyrie or the old landspeader. Those are some sick flyers. Even the new Dakka jets look really nice and orky. But the storm talon, storm raven and now these two? They really look like the modelers just wanted to stick some new flyers out for space marines and had no idea what to do. I am really disappointed. I hope that in the future the will be able to make models that the you don't target just to get it off the field
Agree with all of this 100%. The land speeder is silly. I'll suggest that the talon without all the shriney stuff looks ok, but that's only compared to other sm flyers. And £120 for 15 terminators and a character is very expensive, they are now very much running the risk of losing even the comfortably well off customer.
For a comparison, 5 of these Terminators cost 70 dollars before taxes. A typical Battle Sisters Squad costs a bit more than 90 dollars before taxes, and includes 7 with Boltguns (they're sold in packs of 3, so I divided the pack of a blister by 3 to get individual cost, then multiplied by 7 for the number of Sisters in a typical squad), 1 special weapon, 1 heavy weapon, and 1 Superior.
Depending on loadout, the Battle Sisters Squad costs about 150 to 180 points. I can't imagine 5 Space Marine Terminators costing anything less than 200 points.
Sisters of Battle are an expensive bunch to buy, in need of a plastic update clearly. But I wouldn't equate monetary cost to a points cost. You wouldn't pay 90 dollars for a 200pt character. My point was that it now costs £120 to purchase 16 28mm models, regardless of the points value of these models. And put it on the website in one bundle for your convenience like they're doing you a favour, without even offering as much as a penny off the cost of buying them separately? Kinda insulting.
But, hey, just my opinion. There are probably a million threads on here discussing gw pricing.
43778
Post by: Pouncey
alanmckenzie wrote: Pouncey wrote: alanmckenzie wrote: andtheyshallknownofear wrote:I think that DA has gone the same way as BA and GK, with new models (especially in the case of flyers) that look half assed. I mean really, that landspeader looks like it shouldn't be capable of movement, never mind flight. It just looks stupid and poorly thought out. I mean, look at the valkyrie or the old landspeader. Those are some sick flyers. Even the new Dakka jets look really nice and orky. But the storm talon, storm raven and now these two? They really look like the modelers just wanted to stick some new flyers out for space marines and had no idea what to do. I am really disappointed. I hope that in the future the will be able to make models that the you don't target just to get it off the field
Agree with all of this 100%. The land speeder is silly. I'll suggest that the talon without all the shriney stuff looks ok, but that's only compared to other sm flyers. And £120 for 15 terminators and a character is very expensive, they are now very much running the risk of losing even the comfortably well off customer.
For a comparison, 5 of these Terminators cost 70 dollars before taxes. A typical Battle Sisters Squad costs a bit more than 90 dollars before taxes, and includes 7 with Boltguns (they're sold in packs of 3, so I divided the pack of a blister by 3 to get individual cost, then multiplied by 7 for the number of Sisters in a typical squad), 1 special weapon, 1 heavy weapon, and 1 Superior.
Depending on loadout, the Battle Sisters Squad costs about 150 to 180 points. I can't imagine 5 Space Marine Terminators costing anything less than 200 points.
Sisters of Battle are an expensive bunch to buy, in need of a plastic update clearly. But I wouldn't equate monetary cost to a points cost. You wouldn't pay 90 dollars for a 200pt character. My point was that it now costs £120 to purchase 16 28mm models, regardless of the points value of these models. And put it on the website in one bundle for your convenience like they're doing you a favour, without even offering as much as a penny off the cost of buying them separately? Kinda insulting.
But, hey, just my opinion. There are probably a million threads on here discussing gw pricing.
Okies. ^^
At least they're a nice source of power maul bits. ^^
38926
Post by: Exergy
they are availible to death wing but not deathwing knights. Word is that deathwing(which are more expensive than regular terminators) will have to pay more to get TH/ SS.
TH/ SS are great at the price of four meltaguns. BA pay 3 plasma guns for TH/ SS. What if Deathwing TH/ SS cost even more. SW TH/ SS cost more than 6 meltaguns, and no one takes them.
67620
Post by: UndeadN7
I like them all apart from the flier.
68060
Post by: Outbreak Undead
That flier... Yuck! Will be getting the Sammael model at some point in the distant future. I'm concentrating on my Chaos at the moment.
60351
Post by: alanmckenzie
Pouncey wrote: alanmckenzie wrote: Pouncey wrote: alanmckenzie wrote: andtheyshallknownofear wrote:I think that DA has gone the same way as BA and GK, with new models (especially in the case of flyers) that look half assed. I mean really, that landspeader looks like it shouldn't be capable of movement, never mind flight. It just looks stupid and poorly thought out. I mean, look at the valkyrie or the old landspeader. Those are some sick flyers. Even the new Dakka jets look really nice and orky. But the storm talon, storm raven and now these two? They really look like the modelers just wanted to stick some new flyers out for space marines and had no idea what to do. I am really disappointed. I hope that in the future the will be able to make models that the you don't target just to get it off the field
Agree with all of this 100%. The land speeder is silly. I'll suggest that the talon without all the shriney stuff looks ok, but that's only compared to other sm flyers. And £120 for 15 terminators and a character is very expensive, they are now very much running the risk of losing even the comfortably well off customer.
For a comparison, 5 of these Terminators cost 70 dollars before taxes. A typical Battle Sisters Squad costs a bit more than 90 dollars before taxes, and includes 7 with Boltguns (they're sold in packs of 3, so I divided the pack of a blister by 3 to get individual cost, then multiplied by 7 for the number of Sisters in a typical squad), 1 special weapon, 1 heavy weapon, and 1 Superior.
Depending on loadout, the Battle Sisters Squad costs about 150 to 180 points. I can't imagine 5 Space Marine Terminators costing anything less than 200 points.
Sisters of Battle are an expensive bunch to buy, in need of a plastic update clearly. But I wouldn't equate monetary cost to a points cost. You wouldn't pay 90 dollars for a 200pt character. My point was that it now costs £120 to purchase 16 28mm models, regardless of the points value of these models. And put it on the website in one bundle for your convenience like they're doing you a favour, without even offering as much as a penny off the cost of buying them separately? Kinda insulting.
But, hey, just my opinion. There are probably a million threads on here discussing gw pricing.
Okies. ^^
At least they're a nice source of power maul bits. ^^
The one thing that is undoubtedly commendable is the amount of bits you get in most of their multi part kits these days. Very useful.
44919
Post by: Fezman
The Terminators look very good, I'd consider getting some to covert to use with C:SM if I didn't already have some. The new speeder could have been impressive and I do like the idea of a heavy duty land speeder, but the the front turret and the statues at the rear spoil it for me. I would have preferred a "less is more" approach there. I'm not a fan of the flier at all, the stubby wings and the statues shoe-horned into the design just look incongruous and it puts me in mind of a flying carnival float.
43778
Post by: Pouncey
 Fezman wrote:The Terminators look very good, I'd consider getting some to covert to use with C: SM if I didn't already have some. The new speeder could have been impressive and I do like the idea of a heavy duty land speeder, but the the front turret and the statues at the rear spoil it for me. I would have preferred a "less is more" approach there. I'm not a fan of the flier at all, the stubby wings and the statues shoe-horned into the design just look incongruous and it puts me in mind of a flying carnival float.
If I recall correctly, the shrine at the rear of the Land Speeder Vengeance can be exchanged for what looks like a big honkin' plasma weapon, at least if judging by what is shown on the example models. But the front turret stays.
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2860356a_99120101098_Vengeance01_873x627.jpg
And the front turret, despite its aesthetics, at least let that weapon fire to the left of the vehicle. The weapon on the normal Landspeeder only has about a 90 degree arc of fire, ranging from the front to the right.
46864
Post by: Deadshot
The LC Termy is simply insulting. The pose is good, in concept but the bendy look of the arms, the fact the Claws look like knuckledusters and the general look is awful.
The Halberd guy just lacks the dynamism the other models have, and the Apothecary looks woeful. I think its just the colour that puts me off though.
43778
Post by: Pouncey
Hey, speaking of that weapon on the rear turret of the LSV, does it remind anyone else of the main weapon on the Imperial Guard Leman Russ Executioner?
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m340111a_99120105045_IGExecutioner_873x627.jpg
Only there are two of them on the LSV.
 Deadshot wrote:The LC Termy is simply insulting. The pose is good, in concept but the bendy look of the arms, the fact the Claws look like knuckledusters and the general look is awful.
Not disputing the bendy arms, but the knuckleduster claws aren't unheard of. The plastic loyalist Marine commander has one too:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1252484_99120101032_SMCommandermain_873x627.jpg
As do the plastic loyalist Marine Terminators:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1252499_99120101037_SMCloseComTermmain_873x627.jpg
It's just not in the same style, as there's not as much space between the fist and the base of the claw as there is with the DW termies.
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Post by: Deadshot
I sort of notice it on the Termies, but the commander I definately didn't. I think it looks better when the claws are attached to the fist, or the fingertips al a Great Crusade/Curret Chaos style.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or the DV guy, but I don't really like his pose tbh.
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Post by: Pouncey
Deadshot wrote:I sort of notice it on the Termies, but the commander I definately didn't. I think it looks better when the claws are attached to the fist, or the fingertips al a Great Crusade/Curret Chaos style.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or the DV guy, but I don't really like his pose tbh.
Agreed, it is a lot more noticeable on these ones.
And I'll also agree that it's not a look that everyone likes.
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Post by: BTNeophyte
kb305 wrote:the DA terminators are only 10 more than vanilla terminators. doesnt seem TOO bad to me since the kit appears to have alot of options atleast.
I WOULD agree with this, except for there's a GK termie kit with lots of options for 50
EDIT: holy price hike batman!
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Post by: master of asgard
I have an unassembled squad of 5 Black Reach Termies. I'm so tempted to get a squad or two of Dark Vengance termies for >£10 each on ebay, one command squad box and just kitbash the whole lot together to get a nice little 15- 20 man army for £50!
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Post by: Ross74H
Im odd but I like the LSV (albeit, i'd shove a tempest front end on it) and I love the fighter version of the flyer. Would be very tempted to build both versions using the un-garbaged hull section.
Quite like the DA termies and the termie command squad. But then I built two squads of assault termies out of one box set of assault terminators and a set of DV terminators and spare shoulder pads.
But then mine are a BA force so not available to me - assuming pretty much everything is going to be DA only.
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Post by: tyrannosaurus
As a Sisters player, those flyers will make sweet counts as Avenger Strike Fighters with minimal conversion [remove the DA badges] and will save me £40 a pop.
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Post by: Pouncey
 tyrannosaurus wrote:As a Sisters player, those flyers will make sweet counts as Avenger Strike Fighters with minimal conversion [remove the DA badges] and will save me £40 a pop.
I was thinking that the Aquila pattern on the wings would fit the Sororitas pretty well. ^^
But I didn't know we had any fliers yet, even from FW - admittedly, I haven't kept as up-to-date as I should have.
Edit: Ah, they're an Imperial Navy thingy.
Edit again: And now that I've read the brief description on them, yup, seems nice. ^^
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Post by: Omegus
Is Belial peeing/trying hard not to?
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Post by: Guardsman Bane
 Sasori wrote: Guardsman Bane wrote:Geez you people moan a lot. Never bloody happy, are you? I think the new models are pretty cool, except maybe the landspeeder with the shrine. And to the person who pointed out the $0.50 increase on the codex, if you quibble over half a buck you're in the wrong hobby mate. Honestly, an old codex gets an update along with with some new models and the majority of you just shoot it down? What do you all LIKE about your hobby?
Yeah! People shouldn't have different opinions about things! How dare they!
Different opinions are fine, everyone's entitled to them. But tell me honestly, when's the last time you posted something positive about your hobby?
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Post by: purplefood
When you say hobby do you mean Warhammer or Miniatures in general?
There are plenty of mini companies who offer reasonable prices for what you get...
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Post by: Guardsman Bane
Specifically I mean 40k.
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Post by: Corny
Dr. What wrote:
Has anybody noticed the $0.50 price on the DA codex, compared to the CSM codex?
Just means you have to order some thing along with it if you want free shipping....
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Post by: Pouncey
At least now we know how they came up with the number. ^^
The great and mystical Games Workshop diviners looked one hundred years into the future, and foresaw the price that must be paid to create a standard sized army of Space Marines.
The horrors and marvels of the future were ignored in place of securing this one vital piece of information. They returned to their bodies in the present, vowing never to speak of any of the sights they had seen. Their leader stood, and strode into the next room, where the powerful background writers were waiting anxiously. As they looked up, the diviner smiled toothlessly and said simply, "Forty-kay."
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Post by: BrotherVord
I like the look of the second flier, the one without all the crazy altar crap on it.
the landspeeder is...well, I don't even need to say it.
The terminators are spiffy, but not worth the extra cost.
the codex is way overpriced
the two new HQ's are okay, but the commander guy's pose is really really bad and not very dynamic...I also don't care for the fake smoke on the chaplain
all in all, it's a very "meh" release that I wouldn't bother with if I were a prospective player looking to get into the hobby...I don't know why GW decided to raise the cost of codices and make them hardback, but that's a freaking laughable move
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Post by: Omegus
HQ: Belial has an awful pose, the other guy has the goofy smoke stacks (didn't like that about the limited figure in the box set either).
Terminators: the regular ones are just boring old terminators; the robed ones look much better, but I'm not fond of the size of the weapons or that one guy who has the robe's hood over his eyes...how does he see?
Ravenwing bikes: I like them.
Flyer: not amazing, but best of the bunch
Speeder: wtf... Terrible.
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Post by: gpfunk
 Omegus wrote:HQ: Belial has an awful pose, the other guy has the goofy smoke stacks (didn't like that about the limited figure in the box set either).
Terminators: the regular ones are just boring old terminators; the robed ones look much better, but I'm not fond of the size of the weapons or that one guy who has the robe's hood over his eyes...how does he see?
Ravenwing bikes: I like them.
Flyer: not amazing, but best of the bunch
Speeder: wtf... Terrible.
Haha I noticed that guy too! His hood is entirely over his eyes! I guess his faith will guide him. Honestly, my favorite one of them is the guy that looks like he has the rebreather mask on. Take off those DA icons and you have an incredibly badass Ordo Malleus Inquisitor. I'm just really pumped about those Inner Circle Knights. I'll just convert regular termies of GKs to be my normal deathwings. I still have those old Ultramarine Termies from Assault on Black Reach, i'll just throw a rectangle on its back and call it a cyclone missile launcher 
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Post by: Formosa
Lots whining here lol.
The vengeance is great, love the heavy speeder theme and whoever came up with the weaponised religion comment made me love it more
The termies are great also, well worth the price as all I need is one box to convert 3 units of termies.
The jets are also great, with a little exception and that is the
prison on the back of it.
Now the.only thing I am waiting for is to see the special rules for the army
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Post by: greendragon
Interesting that the rage in interest brought the GW site down for a few hours. I really think the Black Knights are amazing, but for me the stand-out kit is the new Land-Speeder, I've decided to get one and convert it for my Iron Hands force. What surprised me most though were how the kits contain so many options, deathwing/terminators/something else - so many options and lots of bits left over for the rest of your force, looks quite good actually. Although I must say, if you bought it at full RRP you've lost out there, retailers like myself and others doing good deals at a reasonable price - RRP has gotten abit OTT!
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Post by: Shadowclaimer
I love all the new models, but I don't play Dark Angels.
They locked my thread talking about pricepoints, so guess I'll say it again here. I find it absurd the launch bundles offer zero, not even 50 cent discounts over buying them separate. They went out of their way to literally package them down to the CENT for them.
Was really hoping I could say up some cash for the Tau releases, grab a nice super launch bundle with a little discount (not asking for anything big), but now I see that's not happening.
Really sucks =/
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Post by: wuestenfux
Well, I didn't know that Matt Ward had written the codex. Plasma guns for the RW command squad. Ouch!
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Post by: pretre
 wuestenfux wrote:Well, I didn't know that Matt Ward had written the codex. Plasma guns for the RW command squad. Ouch!
Not sure if serious... Vetock wrote the book.
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Post by: Deadshot
I think a combination of Ravenwing Command Squad box and standard biker squad box would be the perfect way to have a Biker captain and command squad. Simply mix Plasma and Bolter on the bikes and count as Plasma guns or pistols.
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Post by: wuestenfux
Vetock? What's his reputation?
The RW cmd squad with plasma guns is awesome. It kills MCs in one go.
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Post by: greendragon
Good idea @Deadshot - may use that, a little kitbashing means Dark Angels Ravenwing becomes Iron Hands Deathwatch Bikers for me =D
For imagination is more important than knowledge  Thats my excuse for all these ridiculous kit-bashes anyways...
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Post by: pretre
wuestenfux wrote:Vetock? What's his reputation?
The RW cmd squad with plasma guns is awesome. It kills MCs in one go.
Oh, you were serious. Ouch.
Vetock wrote Skaven, Ogres (Fantasy) and was one of the three writers for the Main Rulebook (6th).
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Post by: wuestenfux
 pretre wrote: wuestenfux wrote:Vetock? What's his reputation?
The RW cmd squad with plasma guns is awesome. It kills MCs in one go.
Oh, you were serious. Ouch.
Vetock wrote Skaven, Ogres (Fantasy) and was one of the three writers for the Main Rulebook (6th).
Okay, then he should know what he was doing. I'm curious.
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Post by: Compel
Don't Ogres and Skaven have the reputation for being the 'Matt Ward' codices of Fantasy?
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Post by: pretre
 Compel wrote:Don't Ogres and Skaven have the reputation for being the 'Matt Ward' codices of Fantasy?
Considering they weren't written by Ward, no. Generally, the codexes that Ward wrote for Fantasy have the reputation of being the Ward codexes of Fantasy.
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Post by: AlmightyWalrus
Compel wrote:Don't Ogres and Skaven have the reputation for being the 'Matt Ward' codices of Fantasy?
While Skaven and Ogres are powerful, they're not broken (although I hate Skaven with a passion...). They're good, solid books.
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Post by: Tiger9gamer
I like all the models (yes, even the Vengence)
only looking at Deathwing for now, though. Maybe i'll get the plasma-fu Speeder later.
Now All I need to do is decide on either knights or command units.
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Post by: AegisGrimm
I could totally see myself buying one of the Terminator Command Squads, and then the bitz for two squads from Dark Vengeance(a firther ten marines for half the price of the Command Box), and simply spreading the spare arms/bitz from the Command Squad to the other two squads to remove any identical models. The Knights' tabard torsos would make great Sergeants, or combine the tabard from one with the cape torso bit to make a very nice Captain.
The price of the Deathwing Command Squad is the only reasonable one out of the bunch, just because of the loads of options you can make out of it versus a box of normal Terminators. The only bummer is the lack of close combat-equipped arms, but like aforementioned, you can easily just spread the love between a Command box and a normal Close Combat Terminator box.
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Post by: Briooh
I just think its stupid what prices are on these models,and what is worse people are so happy to pay it... £35 for 5 Terminators??? £45 for a flyer really it looks like a Stormtalon with wings.
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Post by: pretre
 Briooh wrote:I just think its stupid what prices are on these models,and what is worse people are so happy to pay it... £35 for 5 Terminators??? £45 for a flyer really it looks like a Stormtalon with wings.
Why is it worse if people think they are worth that price? Just because people think differently about things than you doesn't make them wrong. The price issue has been done to death. If you think they are too high, buy from discounters/secondhand, convert, use third party or don't play. You don't have to pay GWs prices to play 40k.
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Post by: Briooh
Its worse because they will keep increasing the price until its not affordable for younger players or people that cant afford to pay huge amounts of money for something that costs A few £'s to actually produce. So are you telling me that its right to take advantage of people because they are the only people that produce a product and can screw you for as many £'s as they can..
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Post by: pretre
They are a business. They will charge what the market can bear. If it goes too high, they will go out of business. If you don't like the price, there are other options. I tend to buy most of my GW second hand, for example.
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Post by: Briooh
Wayland games doing 20% off which is cool. Not having a go at you Pretre just a bit pissed at the prices going sky high in under a year on all the products. I tend not to buy 2nd hand as the ones I did buy were stuck together using the glue that melted the plastic and its a pain in the ass to strip paint etc.
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Post by: pretre
In the US, Frontline is doing 25% as well.
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Post by: Compel
I have no doubt that GW are pricing themselves appropriately for whatever agenda as a business they have. - Which is probably, short term increase in share price so that the majority shareholders (who, allegedly are the guys in charge of GW anyhow) can sell them off in the next few years as they retire and live comfortably.)
That doesn't mean it's appropriate for the playerbase and people like Briooh who want younger players into the game for future opponents etc and the growth of GW/40k stuff.
Don't mistake me, I'm not saying that anything you said, Pretre is wrong. However, there are choices that GW could have made that would have been better for them as a business both mid and long term, as well as being good for the playerbase. It's not an either/or situation.
At the end of the day, Briooh, I'm in the same situation, which is why I'm now looking at mantic games, as well as having just recently pledged a not-small amount of money (though funnily enough, only the price of 2 DA battleforces...) for Rick Priestley's new Gates of Antares game... Ideally, it will be 40k-ish without the corporate rubbish - Have a look at his forum posts both here and on the darkspace corps site, it cheered me up after looking at some of GW's latest DA mis-steps, eg their prices...
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Post by: AnomanderRake
I'm having a hard time getting riled up over prices right now. Because, you know, plasma cannon Terminators.
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Post by: AegisGrimm
Also, I'll probably buy the Command Squad for 20% off from the Warstore, and the Dark Vengeance Terminators for $14.99...............that's 10 Deathwing terminators for about 2 dollars more than just the Command Squad set direct from GW.
The DA flyer is at a really unfortunate price, because it's the only way I'd field a Storm Talon, so I guess that means I'll never have a Storm Talon, lol.
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Post by: Omegus
Now that we know who wrote the book, I am far more interested in the Dark Angels. The Skaven fantasy book is great, both on the fluff and rules-end (internal balance, although not perfect, is much better than most). I may actually be able to pick up a new Imperial army without it turning my stomach like any of Ward's offerings (he ruined the Ultramarines and Grey Knights, and I never cared for Blood Angels or Wolves[I know he didn't write this one, that's Kelly's failing] anyway).
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Post by: pretre
Ward didn't do space wolves. 
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Post by: Omegus
I never said he did, although I guess that could be misinterpreted from my post. I simply meant that was one Imperial army I am not interested in, so it was not an option. I already have IG, Sisters don't count, and everything else is Ward.
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Post by: AlmightyWalrus
Omegus wrote:
I never said he did, although I guess that could be misinterpreted from my post. I simply meant that was one Imperial army I am not interested in, so it was not an option. I already have IG, Sisters don't count, and everything else is Ward.
Just sayin'.
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Post by: Billagio
I like that I can buy one box of termies and can make 3 different units. Given that I already have 20 termies, I think this should be a very cheap release for me. Im mostly curious about how kitting terminators will work. Such as which combos will be best and which heavy weapons will be the new CMLs.
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Post by: Tiger9gamer
Reading throught these posts, I find a lot of negative comments about it :/ killed the excitement of a potenitally new army.
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Post by: SavageRobby
 Tiger9gamer wrote:Reading throught these posts, I find a lot of negative comments about it :/ killed the excitement of a potenitally new army.
Meh, I'm excited anyways.
I find the comments about GW driving people away from the hobby kind of funny. I had friends that said the same thing 10-15 years ago, yet here GW is going strong.
And I dig the Termie Knights.
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Post by: Red Viper
I think DV is going to make Dark Angels a popular choice. The new Termi and Ravenwing kits have so many bits that with just a little bit of surgery, you should be able to turn the extremely cheap DV kits into optimal set ups.
It all depends on the rules for me though. I won't be getting anything until May at the earliest anyway, so I'm in no rush. I think overall this is a pretty strong release... at least compared to the Chaos one.
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Post by: Tiger9gamer
SavageRobby wrote: Tiger9gamer wrote:Reading throught these posts, I find a lot of negative comments about it :/ killed the excitement of a potenitally new army.
Meh, I'm excited anyways. I find the comments about GW driving people away from the hobby kind of funny. I had friends that said the same thing 10-15 years ago, yet here GW is going strong. And I dig the Termie Knights.
Me too. Dont have enough for everything, so probably going to get the knights or command squad.
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Post by: HerbaciousT
Dont forget that the £35 includes kits to make the Deathwing, Deathwing Command and the Knights. Im buying one box for the Knights, then ill use the other parts with some bodies/legs/shoulders from Ebay, and build at least another 5 termies depending on the options in the codex for unit size. That plasma cannon looks tasty
I agree the prices are high, but thats par for the course with GW. Wayland has 20%+ off the new DA stuff, go have a look
I actually prefer the Stormtalon to the Nephilim. But annoyingly the Stormtalon isnt in the DA section on GW's website, so im guessing it wont be in the new Dex.
Guess ill go with the Nephilim. Like hell will I use the Dark Talon. Looks like a flying chapel. I like the gothic stuff, but not when it looks that tacky (See Landspeeder Darkshroud. The Vengence has grown on me a little)
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Post by: Tiger9gamer
Do you think you can convert a stormtalon to dark talon?
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Post by: Formosa
Yes, intact I think it will be fairly easy to do
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Post by: captain collius
 AlmightyWalrus wrote: Compel wrote:Don't Ogres and Skaven have the reputation for being the 'Matt Ward' codices of Fantasy?
While Skaven and Ogres are powerful, they're not broken (although I hate Skaven with a passion...). They're good, solid books.
QFT skaven are powerful but believe me one of your own cannons derping can blow your army off the board
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Post by: wuestenfux
Well, I'll be interested how much RW and DW units cost point-wise. Chaos bikers got very cheap in the new edition. I'll be curious to see if they set forth this trend. Otherwise, I guess that DW and RW armies will be heavily outnumbered which is bad news in the new edition, since fearless hordes (mobs or broods) have nothing to fear in cc (no more additional hits after loosing a round of cc).
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Post by: pretre
I stand by my Automatically Appended Next Post: SavageRobby wrote:I find the comments about GW driving people away from the hobby kind of funny. I had friends that said the same thing 10-15 years ago, yet here GW is going strong.
You can google with limited time periods and find the exact same complaints. What's even funnier is when they are from the same people...
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Post by: Tamwulf
The Skaven Army Book has the largest FAQ/Errata of any army in Fantasy or 40K. Nine pages worth of supplementary rules to make the army book work. Some of the most broken units in the game- Hellpit Abomination, Warp Lightning Cannon, Doomwheel, Doombell, and most powerful spell in the game. Let's also not forget that you can field Skaven Slaves for 1/2 point each in unlimited sizes. Want some fun? Face an opponent in a 2000 point game with two blocks of 200 slaves for 200 points. After you see those 400 models, take a look at the other 1800 points of his army. Have fun grinding through that! BTW, I am a Skaven player.
Point being- Vetock can be as bad, or worse then Ward when it comes to rules. The only difference is that Vetock doesn't write horrible fluff.
The prices on the stuff...  Can't believe the Dark Talon kit is almost twice the price of a Stormtalon. What? I can see the DW Termy squad going up- the sprues are packed with extra bits. The bikes though... three models for that price? Finally, the codex itself. Hardback and 104 pages, and $50... kinda funny, but my last Dark Angels codex was 88 pages, soft back, and only cost $25. Is a fancy cover, 16 pages of (possibly) questionable retcon fluff, recycled artwork, and pictures of new models really worth $25? Each person will have to decide that for themselves.
I'll tell you that if I was a new player to the game, I wouldn't start a Dark Angels army at those prices. As a long time DA player, I'm going to buy a Dark Talon, simply because flyers are kinda OP at the moment, and if you don't have one, you're at a bit of a disadvantage. I'll get a Deathwing Command Squad (maybe two...) just for the Knights and the bits for a proper DW Command Squad for Belial (bad, bad pose! Who stands like that? OMG!). I might get the Ravenwing Command Squad. Again, more for the bits then anything. I have no love for Space Marines riding motocycles into battle. That Unholy Abomination Land Speeder? GW can keep that thing.
The new models look great, but the new prices don't. Jeremy Vetock can be a great army book writer (Ogre Kingdoms), or a pretty bad one (Skaven). I'm hoping we get something somewhere in the middle.
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Post by: Tiger9gamer
I, for one, welcome the new cheesey book if it so happens.
Got my arse kicked so many times I wouldnt mind steam rolling things over.
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Post by: purplefood
 Tamwulf wrote:The Skaven Army Book has the largest FAQ/Errata of any army in Fantasy or 40K. Nine pages worth of supplementary rules to make the army book work. Some of the most broken units in the game- Hellpit Abomination, Warp Lightning Cannon, Doomwheel, Doombell, and most powerful spell in the game. Let's also not forget that you can field Skaven Slaves for 1/2 point each in unlimited sizes. Want some fun? Face an opponent in a 2000 point game with two blocks of 200 slaves for 200 points. After you see those 400 models, take a look at the other 1800 points of his army. Have fun grinding through that! BTW, I am a Skaven player.
I managed to Proxy a 3000 point Skaven list comprising mostly of Engineers, Slaves and HPA's...
To resulting army took 5 other armies to proxy.
Can't recall the end model count but it took a while to finish the game... (Against Ogres)
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Post by: AnomanderRake
Tiger9gamer wrote:Reading throught these posts, I find a lot of negative comments about it :/ killed the excitement of a potenitally new army.
I can help bring the excitement back! Plasma cannon Terminators! Woo!
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Post by: Briooh
Hmm think I'll buy the Dark Vengeance pack and sell all the dark angel figures on ebay.. I want to start chaos army after I've finished my Sanguine, I can get hold of that for £48 no P&P
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Post by: Deadshot
Anyone else think the Plasma Termy may have been inspired by the WNT writer's "combiplasma" conversion for his Armies on Display last year (2012)?
And that that same guy is very annoyed that the very part he had to convert is produced not 6 months and he could get it for a discount, along with some great terminators.
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Post by: Tiger9gamer
I like the dark vengance, but torn on the decision between what to make my terminators. The mauls seem a little underpowered, and even with smite it seems you can glub it up easily.
I hope they are T5 like a rumor said.
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Post by: Ronin_eX
Tiger9gamer wrote:I like the dark vengance, but torn on the decision between what to make my terminators. The mauls seem a little underpowered, and even with smite it seems you can glub it up easily.
I hope they are T5 like a rumor said.
Power Mauls get an oddly bad rap despite actual numbers showing them to be great weapons. The only time a (say) power-sword would be a boon is against models with 3+ armour saves and no invulnerable save greater than 6+. On the charge, Deathwing Knights are beasts. Protracted combat will probably still favour standard assault terminators, but the ability to utterly outperform any other combat unit in the game for one turn is great for breaking through a deathstar and snapping the enemy's back.
And even against their bane (straight 3+ save models, like Marines) they pull good numbers. On the charge they will kill an average of three marines and in return take ~0.275-0.55 casualties (depending on the unit). Each round they fight the enemy will be ground to paste. Against enemies with saves worse than 3+ or better than 3+ they will outperform most AP3 power weapons because of the strength boost. And of course their surviving enemies will be getting mashed back to initiative 1 in subsequent rounds. Smite is just icing that allows them to deal with TEQ assault units quickly and efficiently.
By all accounts (and from the WD itself) they are T5 while in base to base with each other (some sort of shield wall). So they are rivalling Paladins for toughest terminators in the game (2+/4++ W2 vs. 2+/3++ T5).
And this is before knowing exactly what Inner Circle and You Cannot Hide do (two other rules that apparently buff their performance). Let alone knowing what the Flail of the Unforgiven actually brings to the table (or the relic for that matter).
But be sure, mauls are not underpowered in any way. They are easily one of the most flexible of the power-weapon archetypes and allow you to deal with infantry, vehicles, monstrous creatures and just about anything else. AP3 weapons are the best tools against 3+ save models, but without a strength buff they quickly fall behind if things like invulnerable saves get brought in to the mix. In cases like this the WS5 (hit more often) and S6 will be a larger boon than being able to cleave through models with a specific armour save and no invulnerable save, more effectively.
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Post by: kronk
Tiger9gamer wrote:I like the dark vengance, but torn on the decision between what to make my terminators. The mauls seem a little underpowered, and even with smite it seems you can glub it up easily. I hope they are T5 like a rumor said.
I'd hold off on building your terminators in any manner until you read through the codex and make a handful of army lists.
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Post by: Tiger9gamer
Yea, that makes sense. just me worrying again X-X
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Post by: SavageRobby
Tamwulf wrote:I'll tell you that if I was a new player to the game, I wouldn't start a Dark Angels army at those prices. As a long time DA player, I'm going to buy a Dark Talon, simply because flyers are kinda OP at the moment, and if you don't have one, you're at a bit of a disadvantage. I'll get a Deathwing Command Squad (maybe two...) just for the Knights and the bits for a proper DW Command Squad for Belial (bad, bad pose! Who stands like that? OMG!). I might get the Ravenwing Command Squad. Again, more for the bits then anything. I have no love for Space Marines riding motocycles into battle. That Unholy Abomination Land Speeder? GW can keep that thing.
FWIW (which is exactly one data point) I'm a new player, and Dark Angels are exactly what I'm starting with.
But then, I really like the Ravenwing, the new flyer (the fighter version) and the new Vengeance, too. (The Darkshroud and the flying temple, not so much.)
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Post by: Tiger9gamer
 Ronin_eX wrote:
Power Mauls get an oddly bad rap despite actual numbers showing them to be great weapons. The only time a (say) power-sword would be a boon is against models with 3+ armour saves and no invulnerable save greater than 6+. On the charge, Deathwing Knights are beasts. Protracted combat will probably still favour standard assault terminators, but the ability to utterly outperform any other combat unit in the game for one turn is great for breaking through a deathstar and snapping the enemy's back.
And even against their bane (straight 3+ save models, like Marines) they pull good numbers. On the charge they will kill an average of three marines and in return take ~0.275-0.55 casualties (depending on the unit). Each round they fight the enemy will be ground to paste. Against enemies with saves worse than 3+ or better than 3+ they will outperform most AP3 power weapons because of the strength boost. And of course their surviving enemies will be getting mashed back to initiative 1 in subsequent rounds. Smite is just icing that allows them to deal with TEQ assault units quickly and efficiently.
By all accounts (and from the WD itself) they are T5 while in base to base with each other (some sort of shield wall). So they are rivalling Paladins for toughest terminators in the game (2+/4++ W2 vs. 2+/3++ T5).
And this is before knowing exactly what Inner Circle and You Cannot Hide do (two other rules that apparently buff their performance). Let alone knowing what the Flail of the Unforgiven actually brings to the table (or the relic for that matter).
But be sure, mauls are not underpowered in any way. They are easily one of the most flexible of the power-weapon archetypes and allow you to deal with infantry, vehicles, monstrous creatures and just about anything else. AP3 weapons are the best tools against 3+ save models, but without a strength buff they quickly fall behind if things like invulnerable saves get brought in to the mix. In cases like this the WS5 (hit more often) and S6 will be a larger boon than being able to cleave through models with a specific armour save and no invulnerable save, more effectively.
Sorry for replying twice, was kinda distracted before, so I kinda wanted to clear it up about what I would be comparing them too, and that is the glourious TH/ SS terminators. str 8 all the time with AP2 is kinda hard to beat. as you said We have to wait a short (yet oddly long) time to the new codex release, so we know that discussion is coming.
if worst comes to worst, the Knights might need to be the "meat shield" for something.
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Post by: wuestenfux
SavageRobby wrote: Tamwulf wrote:I'll tell you that if I was a new player to the game, I wouldn't start a Dark Angels army at those prices. As a long time DA player, I'm going to buy a Dark Talon, simply because flyers are kinda OP at the moment, and if you don't have one, you're at a bit of a disadvantage. I'll get a Deathwing Command Squad (maybe two...) just for the Knights and the bits for a proper DW Command Squad for Belial (bad, bad pose! Who stands like that? OMG!). I might get the Ravenwing Command Squad. Again, more for the bits then anything. I have no love for Space Marines riding motocycles into battle. That Unholy Abomination Land Speeder? GW can keep that thing.
FWIW (which is exactly one data point) I'm a new player, and Dark Angels are exactly what I'm starting with.
But then, I really like the Ravenwing, the new flyer (the fighter version) and the new Vengeance, too. (The Darkshroud and the flying temple, not so much.)
Be careful here. As a new player, it is generally hard to start with an elite army. DW or RW (or a combined force between DA and RW) are small armies who need a skilled General.
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Post by: Skriker
TimmyTheNerd wrote:1. I like that they gave us a Termie kit that can be a Command Squad, Knights or regular Deathwing....AND comes with a Watcher in the Dark.
2. Scouts are now troops according to the new DA army section.
As a newb to War40k though, don't really know if anything I listed is a good thing or not, just something that I like.
Scouts as troops is a nice add. Did they do away with the really strict unit size counts from the old codex? For something like scouts before you could have a unit of 5 or 10, but not a unit of 7...has that changed? Have my book on pre-order, but curious if anyone knows.
Skriker
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Post by: pretre
compilation from Natfka
collated by Callum
- The special rule "Inner Circle" gives hatred against Chaos Space Marines and Courage.
- The table of Warlord includes options to increase the turboboost of bikes, +1 / -1 to the roll of reserves etc...
- Belial can change their weapons as before. And yes, he does make Terminators troops.
- Sammael makes RW bikes troops as, also.
- Azrael gains +2S and AP3 for his sword. makes both RW and DW troops.
- No specific psychic Dark Angels. Ezekiel has a power that is S4 AP 2, D3 shots, I believe.
Deathwing Knights
- +1 To their Toughness if they are base to base.
Land Speeder Revenge
- The Plasma Storm Battery is S7 AP2, 3 small blast or 1 large blast.
Land Speeder Shroud (80 pts)
- Has the dark rule, which gives +2 to it's cover save.
- A 6 "units gain Stealth.
Ram Ravenwing
- Rift Cannon: Strength 5, AP-, blast, blindness.
Nephilim (about 150/160 pts) According to Warseer 180.
- Avenger Mega Bolter: Strength 6, AP4, heavy 5
- Missiles : Strength 6, AP4
- Unrelenting Hunter: Allows exchanging a result of the enemy weaponry destroyed by an immobilized result.
Black Knights Ravenwing (126 unit 3)
- Hammer Corvus: Strength +1, AP-, Rending.
- Plasma Talons 18" plasma guns.
Command Squad Ravenwing.
- Same points as the Black Knights.
Ravenwing (80 points a unit of 3)
via Baret
80 points for a 3man bike squad! 27 points for each additional member. They still come with scouts, have special combat squad splitting (3/3 bikes and the AB and speeder separately (so 3 scoring and a vehicle). 126 points base for those fancy command bikes, their plasma is only 18" though..
Termie squads are 210, have split fire rules, can take 10 members with heavy weapons per 5. They are 44 Points for each additional member.
Everything has a version of stubborn.
via Archibald_TK on Warseer
(the one where we got some infos during the SoB WD release). I was reluctant to post them as the other posters in the thread mentioned it comes from a new rumourmonger but after seeing what the German forum says I suppose they may be true (or they may be coming from the same source so salt and all of that)
A brief summary of what we didn't know before:
- Azrael giving 4++ to his squad; has a S6 P3 weapon
- Warlord table gives +1d6 to turboboost distance/reroll running roll to the Warlord unit, furious charge, +1/-1 to reserve rolls, fearless, he mentions one giving "insensible" which I cannot translate as it's not a rule I know, it sounds like the beginning of the French FnP rule "insensible à la douleur" but I highly doubt he was referring to that
- Nephilim close to 160 pts with upgrade, gatling gun same sucky stats as discussed before
- The weapon of the Deathwing Knights champion is +2S AP3 and cannot be switched for something else
- Inner Circle mentioned as being Fearless, Hate (CSM) like in the other rumour
- Caliban Halberd +2S AP2 strikes at Init
- Access to Divination
- He mention later that while he didn't really check for that, the little boxes that you usually see in the army list allowing to switch FOC slots, he only remember them next to the 3 SC
via chizal on Warseer
In store atm with the codex. all i said is conformed. bane of the traitor(-1ap vs c:csm in cc) is deathwing knights weapons only .
Neph fighter is 180 with either weapon option
azrael does unlock both wings as troops
He has to be in the primary detachment
Also inner circle is fearless and PE c:csm
Blade of caliban is str+1 ap3 unwieldy but a lot cheaper then a normal pweapon
cammand squads are fixed number and can be taken 1 per hq of the same type
Special items include conversion and displacer and power fields. random stat monster slayer power sword and a weapon thats str+3ap3 bane blind concusive
Armoury in the codex called the armory of the rock. also small tidbit is all missle launchers can be upgraded to flak apart fron the whirlwind which got screwed. also dev squad are super cheap. 5man squad with 4 multi meltas 110pts lol
Are the fixed numbers 5-man for Deathwing and 3-man for Ravenwing?
Correct 5&3
Black sword missiles S6 AP4? It wasnt the megabolter with these stats?
both have those stats. bolter r48 missles r36 also rhe fighter has missle lock spacial rule i. the army list but has no blast missle. some silly mistake as it makes no sense we hope
belial 190 any load out
land raiders with deathwing vehicle now have the venerable rule so may reroll pen results
do Land Raiders have to pay extra to get the deathwing vehicle rule?
30 extra and has to have it
No storms. no homers on scouts.chaps &libs can take bikes. only gramd master unlock troops. can have a techmarine per hq taken
Do standard bikers have Skilled Rider?
Nope only black knights
Veng strike gives all models twin linked shots the turn they deepstrike
smite is str+6 ap2 one use. Doesnt say if it to one attack or all that turn.
The fighter has missle lock in the points section at the back but does not have any blast missles so must be a mis pri t.
The deathwing vehicle rule is just anotber name for venerable
If it says something like “Once per game the DW knights can make an attack at ……….” People would start questioning is that in addition to normal attacks? Does it get used for all attacks? Does it replace their attacks with one attack?
Here’s hoping we don’t need to argue about it for 2 months…….
It has its own sub profile str+6ap2 melee one use only
What about named characters?
Same old 5. Some new rules like azrael can choose his warlord trait from the 6 new ones. unlocks both wings as troops. also him or belial lets you not scatter with his unit when deepstriking. had to leave and there was no way to sneak the book out the store
Ezeke is mastery 3 has to take mindworm and then rolls twice on any except biomancy
Chaplain one gets instant death in melee but no ap or his crozius
oh and samiel is the only eternal warrior again
62367
Post by: Red Viper
Thanks for posting that here. Warseer and Natfka are both blocked for me at work.
So Deathwing Knights have normal power mauls, but can be S10 ap 2 once a game?
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Post by: Tiger9gamer
Can't tell if rules are bad or not...
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Post by: kronk
So you have to pay the -Belial, Sammael, or Azrael tax to unlock the troops slot on their respective wing(s) instead of a generic HQ. That's a shame.
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Post by: Deadshot
Samiel is really cool, pretty much same as old edition, but it sounds really cool. Land speeder is 14/14/10, EW, 4++ on bike or Speeder. Other things. He's pretty wicked.
The Vengeance and Darkshroud are the same stats as the Land Speeder though so pretty fragile :(.
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Post by: Tiger9gamer
great, now I'm worried I may have lost money on this X-X
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Post by: kronk
Lost money, how? While it's disappointing that having to take a named dude to unlock the wing(s) was kept, I'm sure they're pretty powerful. Also, it sounds like the DA are getting some excellent toys and units. Also: 5man squad with 4 multi meltas 110pts
Wow.
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Post by: Tiger9gamer
 kronk wrote:
Lost money, how? While it's disappointing that having to take a named dude to unlock the wing(s) was kept, I'm sure they're pretty powerful. Also, it sounds like the DA are getting some excellent toys and units.
Also: 5man squad with 4 multi meltas 110pts
Wow.
Pre-codex worry X-X afraid they won't be as "uber" as I once thought out. the S6 AP3 champ weapon is cool though, hope the haliberd is AP2 and can be given to a captain.
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Post by: kronk
I wouldn't worry. Sounds like a solid codex.
As for the Halberd:
Caliban Halberd +2S AP2 strikes at Init
That's a pretty scary weapon. It's got to be pricey, though. Like Powerfist pricey.
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Post by: Sasori
Rules don't seem too bad at a glance.
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Post by: Scorpiodragon
I'm pretty psyked for this now, aside from the fact that Belial is now 180pts and still no eternal warrior. However with 3 chaos players in my meta I can't wait to lay down the hatered right back.
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Post by: SavageRobby
wuestenfux wrote:SavageRobby wrote:
FWIW (which is exactly one data point) I'm a new player, and Dark Angels are exactly what I'm starting with.
But then, I really like the Ravenwing, the new flyer (the fighter version) and the new Vengeance, too. (The Darkshroud and the flying temple, not so much.)
Be careful here. As a new player, it is generally hard to start with an elite army. DW or RW (or a combined force between DA and RW) are small armies who need a skilled General.
Thanks, I appreciate the advice. I don't expect to win a lot to start, but I do expect to learn a lot.
I love the idea of the DW/ RW army, with some Dreadnought and Vehicle backup. At the moment I've accumulated some 30 termies of various configs (including a few , including a Librarian and Chaplain in term armor, 2 full 6 bikes RW squads (plus 1 speeder and 1 attack bike), a Vindicator and a pair of Dreadnoughts with different configs, plus a squad of Tac marines and a command squad and various HQ options (a Belial, plus the DV company master, librarian and chaplain). Also have a box of Knights and the Vengeance on the way. No drop pods, rhinos or land raiders (yet).
So I figure that's a decent foundation, and then the next step will be understanding the rules in play (read through multiple times, playing tomorrow) and then the tactical/strategic implications, although I've found strategy and tactics basics are generally transferrable, so mostly its understanding the specifics of how 40k plays.
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Post by: Lobokai
Sammael still has EW? Very Cool... is he still a unit of one, or is he an IC?
Can Command Squads or Black Knights take SS?
Thanks to anyone who knows, and my apologies if already said and I missed it
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Post by: Harriticus
Based solely on their appearances:
-Deathwing Knights: Too much, a lot of GW kits these days are simply "too much". A Deathwing Knight concept would have worked for a Deathwing Master or whatever though
-Deathwing Command Squad: Fine, besides the legs issue
-Ravenwing Knights: Look fine to me
-Dark Talon: Pretty bad, but still an improvement over the Storm Chicken
-Nephilim Jet Fighter: Significant improvement over both the Storm Talon and Dark Talon.
-Land Speeder Vengeance: Barely passable
-Darkshroud: Looks like utter gak.
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Post by: Exergy
 Lobukia wrote:
Can Command Squads or Black Knights take SH?
Thanks to anyone who knows, and my apologies if already said and I missed it
not sure what SH is? Automatically Appended Next Post: kronk wrote:I wouldn't worry. Sounds like a solid codex.
As for the Halberd:
Caliban Halberd +2S AP2 strikes at Init
That's a pretty scary weapon. It's got to be pricey, though. Like Powerfist pricey.
it will probably be limited to the champion and he will get it at a discount
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Post by: Tiger9gamer
more speculation! how do you think The Nephilm fighter could do? the avenger cannon looks a tad bit weak to me.
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Post by: Crimson
I think the Dark Talon would look much better if the gothic bits (apart the statues and icons) were painted with the same colour as the hull. Then it would look more like an ornately shaped plane instead of a plane with masonry bolted on it.
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Post by: kwah
im just going to go to my corner and cry my tau heart out now 
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Post by: Anpu42
I am still waiting to see information on Veterans and Tactical Squads. I don’t know if this means anything but but you can buy the veterans pack under both Elites and Troops.
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Post by: Tiger9gamer
Still can't decide if the Nephim's avenger bolter is good X-X
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Post by: Lobokai
 Exergy wrote: Lobukia wrote:
Can Command Squads or Black Knights take SH?
Thanks to anyone who knows, and my apologies if already said and I missed it
not sure what SH is?
Grrr, typo. Meant SS.
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Post by: Ronin_eX
It seems okay against AV11 flyers once the missiles are added in. But overall it seems like the Neph is a better ground-attack flyer than anti-air. The TL lascannon version may perform anti-air better. But things like Strafing Run just seem to make it better at hitting ground targets rather than tangling in the skies.
Saddly, that is the same role as the Dark Talon which seems to have more synergy with the force (debuffs things like a boss). No one has quoted any special rules for the Avenger MB or Black Sword Missiles so I am starting to think they are just straight up S6AP4. Oh well, glad I held off. I'll wait until I get the codex before I decide if the Neph is good or not. But at least the Dark Talon sounds like it meshes with the rest of the force well.
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Post by: wuestenfux
Well, not really impressed by the new release. The only new tank in town is Land Speeder Revenge
- The Plasma Storm Battery is S7 AP2, 3 small blast or 1 large blast.
Looks like a skimming Executioner with AV 10. Ouch. But with 2 hull points, I guess, it will be dead once its targeted.
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Post by: Omegus
180 points for the fliers? Epic lulz.
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Post by: wuestenfux
That's too much. Compare this with the Night Scythe, almost half the points.
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Post by: HerbaciousT
Tiger9gamer wrote:
Pre-codex worry X-X afraid they won't be as "uber" as I once thought out. the S6 AP3 champ weapon is cool though, hope the haliberd is AP2 and can be given to a captain.
Why do they have to be 'uber'? Not every new codex coming out should have to be able to table other armies just by virtue of it being new. The codex and units seem very good to me. And I play DA for the aesthetic and the fluff anyway. And also for Fearless Terminators as troops
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Post by: Fenrir Kitsune
 HerbaciousT wrote:
Why do they have to be 'uber'? Not every new codex coming out should have to be able to table other armies just by virtue of it being new.
Its gotta sell though, hasn't it?
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Post by: Sasori
wuestenfux wrote:Well, not really impressed by the new release. The only new tank in town is Land Speeder Revenge
- The Plasma Storm Battery is S7 AP2, 3 small blast or 1 large blast.
Looks like a skimming Executioner with AV 10. Ouch. But with 2 hull points, I guess, it will be dead once its targeted.
I can see the Stealth one being used, to help the surviveability of these a bit, but I agree for the most part. It will likely be a reserve, come on and blast, and die next turn kind of vehicle. Hopefully the pointscost reflects that.
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Post by: Exergy
Lobukia wrote: Exergy wrote: Lobukia wrote:
Can Command Squads or Black Knights take SH?
Thanks to anyone who knows, and my apologies if already said and I missed it
not sure what SH is?
Grrr, typo. Meant SS.
word is that deathwing terminators and command squads CAN take TH/ SS, perhaps TH or SS separately but they have to pay a premium ala SW codex. No one wants TH/ SS terminators if they cost 75 points each. They wont get them for 40 like C: SM.
Deathwing knights come with power mace and stormshield stock. The SS is of course awesome, as is the rumored T5. But the power mace is....meh. against meq a TH or powerfist will give you 3 times as many wounds.
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Post by: Savageconvoy
Faeit212 has a second batch up now.
Things I noticed that were interesting.
The Plasma Storm Battery is apparently 1 large blast or 3 shots, not three small blasts. Not sure how I feel about that.
The flakk missile is an option for most missile launchers and only a 10 point upgrade.
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Post by: Skriker
Yes, but there are two different markets for a codex. The first are those who are buying and playing with it because it is the latest/greatest/uber book. The second are those who want to build a Dark Angels army. If the first group doesn't buy it much the second group still will. Yes a codex will sell more if it appeals to both groups, but as long as it appeals to at least one of the groups it will still sell. I just want a relatively balanced book without a lot of craziness as I am building my force as part of the second group and kind of spurred on by the Dark Vengance boxed set. I've always liked "story" armies and not just WAAC armies. Just personal preference. This book will help determine if GW's goal is to build more balanced books this time out or not. With only 1 codex released so far it is hard to tell that. Hoping it does become a trend, but we'll see.
Skriker
20774
Post by: pretre
From Natfka
via Chizel on Warseer
is the only way to unlock Termies or Bikes troops to get the special characters or can basic HQ with the right war gear unlock them as well?
Also, what are the largest sizes for the command squads? 5 for termies and 3 for bikes?
Specials unlock them as troops. normal hq unlock them as command squads
Mindworm is d3 s4 ap2 focused witchfire and -3ws/bs/i per wound taken
What are the max number of terminators and bikes you can have in squads?
10 for each unless command which are locked at 5/3
I guess you had to expect that for a tripple plasma cannon battery. is it's twin linked or not.
Its not a triple cannon but a heavy 3 plasma gun. no blast. the charge shot is a heavy 1 large blast though
Talons r18 twin linked rapid fire plasmas. the grenade launchers are evil. knights can take one every 3 bikes. rad grenades are s3 ap- but units hit are -1t fir the turn. stasis grenades no damage but -1ws&i for the turn.
deathwing assault means you decide in secret which units come in turn one or turn two. no need to roll for reserves and its not just half your dwing but any amount
special piece of wargear called a porteract. if the character kills an enemy chara ter in melee yoh army can now use the enemies locator and teleport beacons
Is there a generic Captain/Master/called whatever with option for SM Bike or Terminator armour?
Bikes and t armor are in as equipment for the normal masters.
No extra powers other than mindworm (missed out it also lowers ld as well as the other three stats) and its r12
No stern or vangaurd.
Belial has precise shot on a 5+. Him and his squad of all inner circle do not scatter. his sword is is ap3 fleshbane
Tac squads&vets get grim resolve=stubborn.
Perfid relic= adamantium will + fear
Do DW knights get their 3+ invul and T5 (from being base to base) in the turn they deep streak?
Lastly, does the stasis bomb effect vehicles?
yes t5 as they have to be in b2b when deepstriking and stasis says it effects any unit so im guessing walkers would be counted as well
chapter standard is all units within 12 get to reroll all morale and pinning checks and +1a to his unit
then the lesser ones have those rules split up.
ravenwing lets them autopass hit and run and roll an extra d6 for distance.
Company standard is 12" rerollorale & pinning.
Deathwing one is 6" +1a to all inner circle.
Then theres the daddy standards. one per army.
All have the 12" morale pinning rule then either;
All units in 12 get counter attack or
all in 12 get fnp or
all boltguns in 6 get salvo 2/4
Edit salvo effect is only within 6"
"All friendly Codex: Dark Angels units within 6" treat their boltguns as Salvo 2/4 weapons"
Thats amazing. Ravenwing bikes... Tactical squads... Hurricane Bolters! ()
yeah we were just talking about having the command squad flanked by two full tac squads, 100 bolter shots a turn thank you very much
do Company Masters affect the FOC by taking TDA or a Bike? Do they just unlock a command squad from the respectively taken wargear?
only the grand master special characters effect the foc
the dark shroud may only be hp 2 but it does have jink, stealth and shrouded so could survive a while.,
via Lion El Jason on Warseer
Conversion fields are 4+ Inv. At the end of any phase where a save was made nearby units test for blind.
Displacer 3++, at the end of the phase scatter D6"
Power fields give models within 3" a 4++
Monster slayer is a power weapon, roll D6: 2-4 +1STR, 5-6 +2STR and Instant Death.
There is a combi plasma with Assault1 Blast plasma part and an assault 3, AP4 storm Bolter there too.
I like the Mace of Redemption. Str+3, AP3, Blind, concussive, AP2 vs C:CSM.
There is also an item for FnP and shrouded.
Flakk is 10 points on tac, scout, veteran and dev Missile Launchers. You do not lose frag & Krak.
No flakk for CMLs.
Stasis Anomaly". RW Grenade launcher gives -1 WS and Init to a UNIT hit.
Are there limits to the LS variants you can take with an attack squadron?
Can you take a "support squadron" of landspeeders and are there limitations on variants?
No, 1-5 LS and any can be upgraded to typhoon or tornado. New tornado options too, double multimelta now available.
Blade of Caliban for champ. Nerfed power axe.
Sgt can upgrade to "Power Weapon" so can be a sword.
Thats all.
No options for HQ bikes that I have found. Techmarines CAN have bikes though.
All HQs can have bikes except company masters and named characters.
There are no additional options for the bikes to make them plasma talons or anything.
Fleshbane! AP3
Master Crafted, WS6 and Fleshbane means the SoS is a real option now. He has a special rule for shooting too (Though only a storm bolter) so you kind of waste that with the TLC and TH&SS options.
We know Ravensword is AP2
Asmodai has Blades of reason again!
Str as user, AP- Instant death, Specialist weapon.
Azrael got FnP (6+)! hehe.
His plasma gun also has Blind USR.
All Landspeeders have Deep Strike too.
RW Attack Squadron is almost identical to last codex. More Tornado options, can have typhoon, Pay for the MM upgrade on AB, The Squad with 2x Melts, AB with MultiMelta and Sgt with combi-melta is possible at 165points.
Has Hit & Run and Sgts and Vet Sgts can take combi weapons and things like Lightning claw, TH and stuff.
The RW banner means you auto win the init roll to hit & run too.
Regarding Techmarines:
*How many servitors are allowed?
1-5
*What is the cap on servitor heavy weapons? Is it two max same as Codex Space Marines?
Yes
*Can DA Techmarines fortify terrain?
Yes
*Are there any traits or wargear items that distinguish them from Techmarines in other Chapters?
Grim Resolve, all Special Issue Wargear allowed (Except Jump Pack).
Originally Posted by bobafett012
does belial come with warlord trait of his own or do you roll on the DA or rule book table?
Belial (And Asmodai and Ezekiel) has "The Hunt" which is about the worst warlord trait I've seen. Its a small chance of +1 VP.
Sammael has rapid manoeuvres and Azrael can choose from the DA table.
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Post by: Savageconvoy
Looks like blind is also getting thrown around quite a bit.
20774
Post by: pretre
That's good. At least they are using the new USRS they created.
50138
Post by: Savageconvoy
Completely agree. Same thing with Flakk.
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Post by: Exergy
pretre wrote:That's good. At least they are using the new USRS they created.
too bad CSM got a liberal does of Fear and Soul Blaze
52812
Post by: Tiger9gamer
I'm happy flakk dosen't replace other choices
wait.... Did I read that right? A banner that gives boltguns Salvo 2/4?
please tell me it's an upgrade or special character.
38926
Post by: Exergy
three plasma cannon blasts would have been too similar to the CSM forgefiend. (which costs 200 points as well) Automatically Appended Next Post: Tiger9gamer wrote:I'm happy flakk dosen't replace other choices
wait.... Did I read that right? A banner that gives boltguns Salvo 2/4?
please tell me it's an upgrade or special character.
4 shots at 24" instead of 1. Quad firepower!
52812
Post by: Tiger9gamer
Could it affect allies as well? say some kind of Elite that guards the Stern.
40 Hellfire rounds at 24, possibly with a Divination libby.
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Post by: Exergy
Tiger9gamer wrote:Could it affect allies as well? say some kind of Elite that guards the Stern.
40 Hellfire rounds at 24, possibly with a Divination libby.
why stop at 40? You can probably get 2 squads in the 6" bubble. 80 shots. If it goes by the unit and not the model you could have hundreds....
52812
Post by: Tiger9gamer
Damn.
That's awsome 500 pts of Imperial fist allies, Here I come!
38926
Post by: Exergy
Exergy wrote: Tiger9gamer wrote:Could it affect allies as well? say some kind of Elite that guards the Stern.
40 Hellfire rounds at 24, possibly with a Divination libby.
why stop at 40? You can probably get 2 squads in the 6" bubble. 80 shots. If it goes by the unit and not the model you could have hundreds....
note that if you put 25 expensive marines all inside a 6" bubble your opponent will drop a battle cannon on you, but DA have area 4++, or aegis defense line and a speeder that gives stealth.
52812
Post by: Tiger9gamer
yea, but it would still be pretty scary. sounds like a fun thing to do!
20774
Post by: pretre
Get Lysander in there if we are being silly.
Don't assault that unit.
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Post by: Exergy
pretre wrote:Get Lysander in there if we are being silly.
Don't assault that unit.
it would be more than one unit, but assault away, just make sure you have something to take the overwatch first
25208
Post by: AlmightyWalrus
Tiger9gamer wrote:Could it affect allies as well? say some kind of Elite that guards the Stern.
40 Hellfire rounds at 24, possibly with a Divination libby.
Not to be that guy, but did you read what the post said? Specifically, the part where it's "all friendly models from Codex: Dark Angels only"?
52812
Post by: Tiger9gamer
just as well. Still, that can give tactical squads some edge.
47289
Post by: BTNeophyte
Halberd is S 6 AP2?
From the emperor's champion, @#$%#@#$# you GW
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