Favorite character(s)- Saul tarvitz and severus
Favorite battle- word bearers first witnessing the custodian guard fight.
Favorite book/story overall- the dark angel short story with the lion and curzes chosen champions.

Let's hear your favs.

Tarik Torgaddon.

Magnus the Red and his Chief Librarian (Dunno what his name is, can't come to mind)

Good choice. My fav part with tarik is when he mugs off that pompous emperors children caption on planet murder.

Curse and lorgar, thank you ADB

Dorn, for all the struggles he has to go thru. My favorite story is The Lightning Tower.

2nd place has to go to Sevatar, Prince of Crows is a really good story.

Saul Tarvitz. Essentially nothing more than a line officer, he rallies the loyalists against 4 primarchs. If that's not a story of heroism I don't know what is.

Garro and Loken are my favorite character.

Favorite Battle is when the Word Bearers and the World eater fight the Eldar.

Favorite book so far would be The First Heretic.

Just going by their portrayals in the HH series: Magnus, Russ, and Guilliman.

After Prospero burns....i want to play sapce wolves....so...RUSS

Pwn'd You wrote:After Prospero burns....i want to play sapce wolves....so...RUSS

Manchu wrote:Just going by their portrayals in the HH series: Magnus, Russ, and Guilliman.

Yeah, I have to say, the HH series did wonders for my opinion on Russ. Beforehand he just seemed like an arrogant tool (quite literally; a weapon), but I really like his portrayal as a fiercely loyal, strong Primarch, willing to do anything for the Big E whilst not taking himself too seriously.
Made me like Guilliman more and gave Lorgar a genuine reason to turn too. Masses of respect for Lion too.

Kinda done the opposite for Magnus, who (for me) basically went from a tragic victim to an arrogant git who had it coming (still TONNES of character though, I just don't sympathise for the guy any more). Didn't help my opinion on Sanguinius either, who sounded really cool until portrayed in Fear to Tread, where he just seemed a bit soft and fairly foolish; but that could be due to how I found the novel and Jim Swallows writing style.

Curze and Corax stayed about the same for me.

 Just Dave wrote:
Magnus [...] basically went from a tragic victim to an arrogant git who had it coming

I think this is exactly why I like him so much now. I never bought the "tragic victim" angle (had a massive debate on here about that before Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns came out) so it was nice to see the character clarified. The thing about being a "tragic victim" is that it's not very ... primarchesque, to coin a phrase. Magnus as he has been written is blinded by his arrogance. Take away the arrogance and he's simply blind.

 Manchu wrote:

 Just Dave wrote:
Magnus [...] basically went from a tragic victim to an arrogant git who had it coming

I think this is exactly why I like him so much now. I never bought the "tragic victim" angle (had a massive debate on here about that before Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns came out) so it was nice to see the character clarified. The thing about being a "tragic victim" is that it's not very ... primarchesque, to coin a phrase. Magnus as he has been written is blinded by his arrogance. Take away the arrogance and he's simply blind.

Well, he has only got one eye (although for kindly reasons)...

Magnus the Red, Ahzek Ahriman, Lorgar, Fulgrim, Zahariel, Argel Tal, Tarik Torgaddon.

Ahriman,Corax (I really like the RG) and Russ...Also Fulgrim is great...

Mathias Herzog and Ingo Pech.

Horus, little Horus, Dorn and Iacton Qruze are without doubt the characters, whom I enjoy reading about the most.

I LUVED how our liege lord Dan Abnett portrayed Horus and little Horus in the first HH book (the short story “Little Horus” was stellar to.)

Dorn is dutiful and obedient, so he’s aight. However, it is his crazy character development, which has really made me interested in this guy.

I liked Argel Tal, Torgaddon, Cruze and the crazy ass Emperor's Children first captain (can't recall his name)

Edit:

I was also a big fan of Maloghurst, Horus's political monster.

Sevetar, for being 24/7 awesome.

Thats crazy space wolf Brynngar who sacrifices himself to take down the furious abyss

More love for Sevatar here. The man's just 100% pure, grade-a awesome. Especially his portrayal in Prince of Crows - just the right balance of arrogance, cockiness and mystery.

Also, Perturabo in Angel Exterminatus.

So far Torgaddon and Tarvitz alllllllllll day

Of the Primarchs I say Corax, as I like his character and view him more or less as the most competent and could probably outmanouver any opponent untill death by old age.

Non-primarchs, I say all of the following: Ahriman, Loken, Garro, Torgaddon.

Maybe it was just the voice acting, but in Prince of Crows, did anyone else get the sense that Sevatar was based a lot in his personality on The Joker.

Which is, you know, awesome, cause well, Space Batman...

 Compel wrote:
Maybe it was just the voice acting, but in Prince of Crows, did anyone else get the sense that Sevatar was based a lot in his personality on The Joker.

Which is, you know, awesome, cause well, Space Batman...

What? Disagree...Joker is a lunatic genious who wants anarchy and Jago is Jago...

My only objection is that ADB made him look like his personal ultra killing DA machine and only one who can face Sigismund in melee - but he is a cool character, especially for rubbing Curze...

HH did turn me against Magnus but i really like alot of his thousand sons specifically Ahriman and a few others

 Pwn'd You wrote:
HH did turn me against Magnus but i really like alot of his thousand sons specifically Ahriman and a few others

Me too - I loved TS before heresy but all Magnus whining made me go all wulfen..But Ahriman has a special place in my heart and they are still my favorite CSM....

 baxter123 wrote:
Magnus the Red and his Chief Librarian (Dunno what his name is, can't come to mind)

Ahzek Ahriman! X)

I haven't read many.... so he's one and that's all I've read

 DarthMarko wrote:

 Pwn'd You wrote:
HH did turn me against Magnus but i really like alot of his thousand sons specifically Ahriman and a few others

Me too - I loved TS before heresy but all Magnus whining made me go all wulfen..But Ahriman has a special place in my heart and they are still my favorite CSM....

What whining?

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 DarthMarko wrote:

 Pwn'd You wrote:
HH did turn me against Magnus but i really like alot of his thousand sons specifically Ahriman and a few others

Me too - I loved TS before heresy but all Magnus whining made me go all wulfen..But Ahriman has a special place in my heart and they are still my favorite CSM....

What whining?

We were loyal and that tragic hero Hector gak...
After Prospero I've played a galaxy smallest violin for them, really...Also Manchu and Dave explained that in previous posts....

 Manchu wrote:


No, there was apparently not a Loken, Tarvitz, or Garro among the sorcerers. And one cannot even say that they knew a greater loyalty to their Primarch. Ahriman and his cabal gave the lie to that excuse after the Heresy. The Thousand Sons always have an excuse -- the Flesh Change. Magnus justified betraying his father in the exact same way Ahriman would later justify his betrayal of the Legion. Their intentions are always so good, how tragic ... except not really. It's always a matter of arrogance, to demonstrate greater power, to delve even deeper into the secrets of the Empyrean. The corruption of the Thousand Sons lay in Magnus himself and his vain striving for mastery simply deepened the taint. It's no wonder that his Legion followed him, seemingly to a man, into damnation. They deserved their tragedy; each of them earned it.


.

My favorite Horus Heresy character is John Grammaticus.

Only several of their number rejected Magnus when the depth of his betrayal was realized (And no, not stopping your father from making what amounts to a glorified telephone call, even against the Emperor's orders, is not equivelant to aiding in a rebellion against the Imperium of Man).

Ahriman did not use the Rubric for the sake of increasing his own power, that was a side-effect. He used the Rubric to save his legion from the Flesh Change, as Magnus was silent.

Magnus wasn't whining in Aurelian, though I haven't read any other depictions of him after that novella, so he might have in, say, Betrayer, admittedly.

Sevatar and Curze win this one for me, definitely feels like Curze manages to stand out from the other Primarchs in a lot of almost funny ways.

Just saw that I spelt sevatar as severus. Lol no idea where I got severus from. The night lords in general are awesome. I also love the iron hands morlock caption, can't remember his name.

Argal tal is badass too.

Tarvitz. Love the part where eidolon is attacking and Tarvitz thinks to himsellf 'If only I had 100 space marines.....hang on a minute!'
And then proceeds to introduce eidolon's force to an absolute kicking.
Then he completely suckers Lucius.
All this from a 'line officer'

 Jimsolo wrote:
My favorite Horus Heresy character is John Grammaticus.

I am very intrigued about him and Oll Persson. I hope those two play bigger roles in the books to come.

"Glorified telephone call" is ... a bit misleading. I've never received a call that caused daemons to burst through portals in my house. Magnus was reckless in his arrogance on that occasion, as on every other. I agree that it's certainly not the same things as directly murdering loyalist marines. But betrayal is still betrayal. The Thousand Sons stood with their Primarch in utter disregard of Nikaea. To use an archaic phrase, they are inconstant. The Flesh Change is a fitting literalization of their psychological nature. And Ahriman pulled the exact same reckless, arrogant, and ultimately catastrophic gak -- all to save the Legion? I severely doubt it. After so many very bad decisions, I think a bit of skepticism regarding their motives is in order. The Thousand Sons are very good a deluding themselves, as is fitting for Tzeentchian pawns.

It's either loken, tarvitz, or kharn. I love the valor and intelligence of loken and tarvitz. But the apathy and choice of rage of kharn and his just don't give a gak attitude despite clearly being pretty intelligent is fun to me.

Loken, just for punching Lucius in the nose.

Garro or Loken are they two choices I am stuck between.

 Jimsolo wrote:
My favorite Horus Heresy character is John Grammaticus.

How could I forget about him
I actually felt sorry for him, and that doesn't happen often when I'm reading books.

Sevatar.

Also, Lion really grew on me, especially when...



I was mainly reading about Night Lords, so I got a lot of the Dark Angels also. It made me like both more.

Kharn - putting flesh on the bones of a hugely one dimensional character. His appearances is After De'shea and Butchers Nails, plus the one where he's beating seven bells out of the Thousand Sons captain, show you the gradual slide from an honourable, devoted and intelligent man, if a single-minded tool of war when his blood is up, towards the one-track loon he ends up. Haven't read Betrayer yet.

Samus, just because of his unexpected return.

Indias Cavalerio is great, showing the Princeps' transition from straight plug in to being in a casket. Very much the spiritual forebear of Lord Gearheart.

Corax. Nuff said.

The Iron Warriors Warsmith Barabus who mangles his traitor colleagues in Iron Within, Iron Without..

I related most to Magnus. I mean, come on dakkans, what would you do if you had etherical powers and had to fight a war. Don't tell me you wouldn't use them and spit on them and not use them.
Bollocks.
You would aid yourself to not get shot and destroy all in your path. As Magnus did and showed it to his legion, who also did. It was what made the Thousand Sons legion so good at killing, but (with the exception of Magnus and the guy who killed Callipso for her future telling [I think that's her name, it's 12:30 in the morning, sue me]). It was their legions being to gather more knowledge as knowledge is power.
But it really began when a dozen Space Wolves attacked Magnus and all they could do was defend themselves against the furry savages, and blood being spilt over a library! If it wasn't for that and Russ's vow for revenge, then I don't think that Etheric powers would be banned and the Thousand Sons wouldn't die (I'm up to the bit in the 3rd book [listening to audio book bc I can] when Callipso dies for the Space Marines).
Just a side note, who has seen Game of Thrones. Anyone who has you will probably know what I'm talking about.
Stark-Space Wolves
Lannisters-Thousand Sons (This does not include Goeffery, who can die in a hole for all I care)
Black Watch-Death Watch
Khaleesi-White Scars
Any other legion.

Anyway, off topic, but had to be said.
That's all the rambling from me.
Cheers
-Bax123

Ignace Karkasy and Hastur Sejanus

Wait for the third season, it will be great (i've read the book), but later game of thrones goes to crap...

I quite like Argel Tal. He's a really nice bloke, I think. I was actually quite moved by his thought process just before he gave the order to open fire on Isstvan 5...thinking about his family and stuff.

Sevatar ~!

 Viersche wrote:
Sevatar ~!

Yeah, killing 10000 dark angels with a pocket knife make's him cool...

Not as cool as throwing a spear into a Daemon Primarch's eye and making him scared of you for the rest of his life, amirite?

Yeah Sevetar’s personality in “Prince of Crowns” was a little hard for me to digest. What a shame…

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Not as cool as throwing a spear into a Daemon Primarch's eye and making him scared of you for the rest of his life, amirite?

For RUSS!

not that Ragnar having his own series of 6 books in anyway influences the thickness of his plot armour....
Stll, at least he's not Rafen.

For me its got to be Bjorn and Argel Tal.

 theheartcollectors wrote:
Good choice. My fav part with tarik is when he mugs off that pompous emperors children caption on planet murder.

This is in Horus Rising, right? Well, I'm reading Fulgrim and it says Lucius got beaten by Tarik some one. I'm pretty sure the smug captain you speak of is Lucius the Eternal.

My favorite characters, even though I haven't read every book would have to be Fulgrim, Ahriman, Russ, and Sevatar.

 Typhus the Betrayer wrote:

 theheartcollectors wrote:
Good choice. My fav part with tarik is when he mugs off that pompous emperors children caption on planet murder.

This is in Horus Rising, right? Well, I'm reading Fulgrim and it says Lucius got beaten by Tarik some one. I'm pretty sure the smug captain you speak of is Lucius the Eternal.

Nope, the smug captain was Eidelon, whilst it was Loken that beat (quite literally) Lucius in a fight IIRC.

Lucius was beaten by Loken, then he whooop Loken's arse second time, then Tarvitz (on Istvaan) beat him in the same way as Loken did first time.....

 DarthMarko wrote:
Lucius was beaten by Loken, then he whooop Loken's arse second time, then Tarvitz (on Istvaan) beat him in the same way as Loken did first time.....

Spoiler:

But then Lucy was raped by that Raven Guard who killed him, and tought him a lesson in swordfightnin'....

Spoilers, man. I haven't even read Angel Exterminatus.

Sorry Dave...

yes i was referring to tarik verbally destroying eidelon on the planet murder. loken did beat lucius but unfairly. lucius is probably one of my fav characters but he is scumbag. but then sevetar is amazing too and hes the biggest scumbag ever.

Huh ? He didn't beat him fairly ? He punched him straight in the face IIRC...
Also Sevatar is cool, but A-DB went little to far with him...

 DarthMarko wrote:
Huh ? He didn't beat him fairly ? He punched him straight in the face IIRC...
Also Sevatar is cool, but A-DB went little to far with him...

How do you mean? As far as I remember it, he didn't seem to be too over the top with him - especially for someone who's supposed to be one of the best fighters in all the legions.

Cyrene, for me she symbollized the death of innocence for both sides of the Heresy, first being blinded by the Emperor for the crime of worshiping him, and second dying at the hands of the custodes for the crime of rebelling against him(the emp). She's the most tragic character in the whole tale.

http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=§ion=&global=1&q=argell+tal#/d4s6vg9
Somehow I knew she would die a horrific death, innocence has no place in 40k.

It's good to see Cyrene get a mention.

She had great chemistry with Argel Tal in their scenes together.

She had great chemistry with Argel Tal in their scenes together.

They might not be able to physically bond with women but from recent books its pretty clear that Astartes are capable of romantic attachments, like Talos and Octavia.

I can imagine the other Word Bearers shouting for Monarchia as Calth burns and Argel Tal wispering "for Cyrene".

 Just Dave wrote:

 DarthMarko wrote:
Lucius was beaten by Loken, then he whooop Loken's arse second time, then Tarvitz (on Istvaan) beat him in the same way as Loken did first time.....

Spoiler:

But then Lucy was raped by that Raven Guard who killed him, and tought him a lesson in swordfightnin'....

Spoilers, man. I haven't even read Angel Exterminatus.

You should, it makes Perturabo one of the easily most likable of the Primarchs.

I fething hate that.

Garviel Loken and the Mournival, Alpharius & Omegon, Kai Zulane

 Void__Dragon wrote:
I fething hate that.

If that was directed at what I said. Then I would ask what's not to like about it???

He is either a non psyker magnus who makes up for by being more of a warrior. Or a more scholarly Angron who does not suffer from the Nails. On top of that he has the elites of his Legion play 40K. Yes 40k but because its so far in the future. GW finally made the game mechanics effectivally real and CGI game play.

 Stonerhino wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
I fething hate that.

If that was directed at what I said. Then I would ask what's not to like about it???

He is either a non psyker magnus who makes up for by being more of a warrior. Or a more scholarly Angron who does not suffer from the Nails. On top of that he has the elites of his Legion play 40K. Yes 40k but because its so far in the future. GW finally made the game mechanics effectivally real and CGI game play.

I was little pissed because Mcneil described him in the "same way as Magnus" in TS (almost mirroring him)...I mean their characteristc's are somewhat different but his writing makes them the same, and he can be borignly predictible...
Also I too hate that Perturabo (who suppose to be sadistic degenerate - like French wroted in "Warmaster"), is portrayed as khm, good guy...!?

Yeah, Perturabo was a sociopathic sadist.

Now he's a cool dude?

lolno

Verses wrote:

 DarthMarko wrote:
Huh ? He didn't beat him fairly ? He punched him straight in the face IIRC...
Also Sevatar is cool, but A-DB went little to far with him...

How do you mean? As far as I remember it, he didn't seem to be too over the top with him - especially for someone who's supposed to be one of the best fighters in all the legions.

A-DB made him equal to Sigismund (you know -Emperor champion),and he killed like 8000 dark angels after he hitched a ride on a fighter by hanging onto the hull one-handed while its in the middle of a dogfight and using it to board an enemy craft.
And in the end, when they are captured, Sevatar has an escape plan, kill anybody who tries to stop them getting away (without their PA)...
I'mean DA look like completely r*****d in that book.....



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Yeah, Perturabo was a sociopathic sadist.

Now he's a cool dude?

lolno

Yes
Bad guy sometimes needs to be a bad guy...

Magnus was always among the most sympathetic traitor Primarchs, so him getting a sympathetic POV is understandable.

Perturabo? Come on, not everything needs to be super tragic and "OH IMAGINE THE GOOD HE COULD HAVE DONE IF THE WORLD WERE NOT SO CRUEL!"

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Magnus was always among the most sympathetic traitor Primarchs, so him getting a sympathetic POV is understandable.

Perturabo? Come on, not everything needs to be super tragic and "OH IMAGINE THE GOOD HE COULD HAVE DONE IF THE WORLD WERE NOT SO CRUEL!"

But that is my point...Mcneil showed him as a guy who was a real tragic victim - you know always in the trenches/mud, " IW weren't in the picture " (really - this pissed him of *some dude made a picture which only showed IW aphotecary while IF raised the flag*)+
they don't know how good we are and all that...
I was like - NOT again...

He could easily be viewed as a sociopathic sadist from an outside obsever, even one very close to him. He does not confide in others and his non-emotional approach to war are still present. Angel Exterminatus just gives us a look into his soft insides.

For Perturabo being unempathic and cruel to the world is the best way to cope with his situation. He will also stubornly stick to a path once he startes it. So even after he realises he made the wrong choice he will not change corse.

^ Khm, irony

That was just Fulgrim being hurtfull when he didn't get his way.

Perturabo, is a bad guy because he chose to be one. So there is nothing tragic about it. Magnus does not have that choice untill it is to late to do anything about it.

The fact that they both want to be something other then warriors does not make them the same. It only shows that the primarchs were ment for more after the great crusade was over.

I don't want to see Perturabo's fething soft insides, lol.

 Stonerhino wrote:


The fact that they both want to be something other then warriors does not make them the same. It only shows that the primarchs were ment for more after the great crusade was over.

But they were failures evenutally...I mean do you want dipomat who goes into rage and burnes his homeworld or a scholar who is hooked on warp?

Only one who wasn't was Rob (who conquered most worlds with diplomacy), everyone else,meh,......

How do you know sevetar killed 8000 dark angels? That's just ridiculous.

It's called hyperbole.

Garro is my favorite, but a close second goes to Warsmith Dantioch (I think that's the name) from Iron Within.

 DarthMarko wrote:

 Stonerhino wrote:


The fact that they both want to be something other then warriors does not make them the same. It only shows that the primarchs were ment for more after the great crusade was over.

But they were failures evenutally...I mean do you want dipomat who goes into rage and burnes his homeworld or a scholar who is hooked on warp?

Only one who wasn't was Rob (who conquered most worlds with diplomacy), everyone else,meh,......

Well the Emperor designed them with a grand vision, and that did not include them being kidnapped by the Chaos Gods as infants and corrupted. It's perfectly plausible they were supposed to have a role after the Crusade was over that didn't include war.

So far it's Argel Tal. Just a very likeable character to me.

Loken is a whiny little bitch, same for his annoying friend, saul tarvits was marginally better, the only loyalist that I liked was the Death Guard guy. In the first three HH books the loyalist are downright awefull, you actually cheer when their betrayed because their whiny, we can't revive Horus because it violates the Imperial truth crap. So far the only loyalist I like are the Raven Guard and the Blood Angels.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Again I like Cyrene the most because she did nothing to ask for being blinded and later murdered, she worshiped the Emperor, then she served the Word Bearers, and then she was murdered by the guards of the Emperor she use to worship. She was innocent from beginning to end, its her that makes me firmly side with the rebels, yea everybody kills innocents in 40k but the Emperor kills his own innocents who only want to please him.

Yeah man Loken not wanting to subject Horus to the suspect Warp witchcraft they've fought and experienced the horrors of firsthand is entirely whiny and illogical.

Characters: Argel Tal, Loken, Ahriman, Julius Kaesoran (Emperors Children 1st captain)

Battle: Istvaan 3 or Prospero in A Thousand Sons

Yeah man Loken not wanting to subject Horus to the suspect Warp witchcraft they've fought and experienced the horrors of firsthand is entirely whiny and illogical.

Yea wanting Horus to die, interestingly it was'nt abbadon that massacred imperial troops on the embarcation deck, it was Loken in the name of the Warmaster. He's a hypocritial self rieghtous feth. I laughed when he died.

He's the opposite in mind of my fave Cyrene, loyal, innocent and undeserving of her misfortune, Loken and his annoying friends deserved everything that happened to them.

Realy liked Forgemistress Koriel Zeth myself.

Sofar- Favorite character would have to be "Alpharius" (you guess which one ), Favorite book is Legion, and Favorite battle is Saul Tarvit's Last Stand on Istivaan III


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ZSO, SAHAAL wrote:
Loken is a whiny little bitch, same for his annoying friend, saul tarvits was marginally better, the only loyalist that I liked was the Death Guard guy. In the first three HH books the loyalist are downright awefull, you actually cheer when their betrayed because their whiny, we can't revive Horus because it violates the Imperial truth crap. So far the only loyalist I like are the Raven Guard and the Blood Angels.

Just... ugh

Did you even read the books? The whole bit about everything they have ever known and cared about trampled on by their most trusted brothers? And they still came out of that kicking ass, and all that went down decided to go down swinging in a last stand that defies logic? Y'know, the bit where Saul, a measly captain, held of 4 primarchs and their forces, and only lets up when he is betrayed by Lucius?

I... I just cant... you hurt my brain.

I... I just cant... you hurt my brain.

I this power you know.

betrayed by Lucius?

Something he should have really seen coming.

bit where Saul, a measly captain, held of 4 primarchs and their forces

Did'nt he run from Agron.

Did you even read the books? The whole bit about everything they have ever known and cared about trampled on by their most trusted brothers?

Everything they were taught was quickly becoming a lie.

ZSO, SAHAAL wrote:
Yea wanting Horus to die, interestingly it was'nt abbadon that massacred imperial troops on the embarcation deck, it was Loken in the name of the Warmaster. He's a hypocritial self rieghtous feth. I laughed when he died.

He's the opposite in mind of my fave Cyrene, loyal, innocent and undeserving of her misfortune, Loken and his annoying friends deserved everything that happened to them.

No, they didn't want to subject Horus to powers that could use him, change him. Oh, and guess what? They did. You can't argue this point, it is plain in the text.

Hurr.

Loken, Abaddon, Little Horus, and Torgaddon were all taking part in the slaughter of the embarkation deck. The difference? Loken and Torgaddon felt shamed by it, Abaddon didn't give a feth about mortal life. I can't recall Little Horus's reaction.

How is he hypocritical?

Cyrene supported the actions of the Word Bearers, including things like forcing Astropaths to sacrifice their own bodies to keep the Custode's own Astropaths messages from reaching out, and tampering with their own. Also the Horus Heresy in general. Cyrene was entirely undeserving of what happened to her on Monarchia, but she made a choice to align with the Word Bearers knowing fully what was going on, she made the choice knowing full-well she might die (And she did), and it is actually rather insulting towards her character to say "Oh she was always just an innocent victim of circumstance who did no wrong". No, she was much stronger than that.

Actually, I have to say, I like Abaddon's portrayal in the books so far: its a cool, reasonable character IMHO and really fitting for the man we know in 40K and his role in 30K.
I think he's portrayed really well and I fear this may be overlooked due to his less 'respected' portrayal in modern 40k.

I didn't dislike Abaddon. In Horus Rising and False Gods there was a noticeable contrast between the derpy angry Saturday Morning Cartoon villain of 40k, and the more sociable, even friendly among Astartes guy of 30k.

But if you read the book without thinking he had no care for humans at best, or actively disdained them at worst, then you're reading a different book, lol.

So far I've been impressed by Fabius, he even talked back to Fulgrim while schooling said primarch on the future prospects of the III Legion. He's calm, aloof, and knowing what kind of monster he turns into just makes the character great. Disclaimer: i've only read 8-9 books so they might end up spoiling him later, I don't know.

I loved Ahrimian's protrayal and especially Garro is an awesome character.

But if you read the book without thinking he had no care for humans at best, or actively disdained them at worst, then you're reading a different book,

I did'nt see any contempt for mortals he was just as willling to kill astartes, he just thought life was cheap, and in 30k/40k, it is.

If I remember correctly in soul hunter the Night Lords resent him for placing to much trust in mortal armies and giving the astartes gak jobs.

I don't think he necessarily had contempt for mortals, but rather saw them as inferior to Astartes, and remembrancers as unsuitable for the war.
Many Astartes seemed to look down on the remembrancers and increasing power given to humans/the high lords/adminstratum; hence some of the Primarch's rebelling...

Magnus the Red, cause we will never know if, with the help of the Emperor, he would be able to lead humanity to the next step of evolution.

Nathaniel Garro from the Death Guard, cause he has done what he knew must be done. On this point he is stronger than Torggadon and Loken

Abbadon's fortitude is far in excess of Horus' so far in the series. At times Horus, particularly in Flase Gods, has come across as innocent and faltering. Whereas Abbadon has consistently been strong, confident and made the transition from fighting for good to evil without looking like two different people, which Horus does.

For me it would have to be Angron I mean Angron didnt run into a falling wall said wall ran into angron XD

Favourite character: Nathaniel Garro

Favourite primarch(s) : Mortarion and Lorgar.

Favourite battle: Kaban machine's attack on the protagonists of "Mechanicum" in the caverns under Mars.

Favourite Book. First Heretic and Mechanicum.

I don't think he necessarily had contempt for mortals, but rather saw them as inferior to Astartes, and remembrancers as unsuitable for the war. Many Astartes seemed to look down on the remembrancers and increasing power given to humans/the high lords/adminstratum; hence some of the Primarch's rebelling...

Half the Imperial Army sided with Horus so I don't think you can paint the heresy as an attempt to establish the astartes as some sort of master race. The main resentment was that the burecrats who were really just puffed up nobles with no real exsperience in either war or governing were telling them not only how to fight but how to run newly conquered territory, Horus and Alpharious(before "Legion" butchered him and his legion) both pointed out that it was counter productive it was to impose exsessive taxes on the conquered, but the Lords of Terra who were really just nobles as opposed to people who did anything noteworthy wanted more money for themselves.

For the Warmaster

ZSO, SAHAAL wrote:

I don't think he necessarily had contempt for mortals, but rather saw them as inferior to Astartes, and remembrancers as unsuitable for the war. Many Astartes seemed to look down on the remembrancers and increasing power given to humans/the high lords/adminstratum; hence some of the Primarch's rebelling...

Half the Imperial Army sided with Horus so I don't think you can paint the heresy as an attempt to establish the astartes as some sort of master race. The main resentment was that the burecrats who were really just puffed up nobles with no real exsperience in either war or governing were telling them not only how to fight but how to run newly conquered territory, Horus and Alpharious(before "Legion" butchered him and his legion) both pointed out that it was counter productive it was to impose exsessive taxes on the conquered, but the Lords of Terra who were really just nobles as opposed to people who did anything noteworthy wanted more money for themselves.

For the Warmaster

How exactly did Legion butcher Alpharius? before that came out information about the Alpha Legion as a whole was scarce at best. Or is this just another case of dakka bandwagoning?

The marines were made for conquest not administration, if they weren't all such puffed-up delusional man-children they might just have realised that administration was bound to follow conquest.

The marines were made for conquest not administration, if they weren't all such puffed-up delusional man-children they might just have realised that administration was bound to follow conquest.

Horus was an adept diplomat and administrator who relised that the Terrans buerucrats were forcing worlds into rebellion by overtaxing them. The issue was'nt humans being in positions of power, both Horus and Fuglrim had no problem giving the mechanicum and the Imperial Army leadership huge amounts of respect, Magard Horus's assasin was a lowly freed slave, the issue was that the Emperor wanted to impower people who had no other reasons for being in power than birth.

Considering that the Astartes particularly the Astartes who rebelled were recruited from the lower caste of the Imperium, from gangers, indentured servants, murderers and gladiators. They had been raised up to superhuman level and told they would fight for a new order where humanity would be free of the oppression and superstition that had shackled mankind, then they looked back and found that the new boss was just the same as the old boss and the same donkey-caves who oppressed them in mortal life still thought they owed them something. No wonder they got so pissed off that they'd want the galaxy to burn.

ZSO, SAHAAL wrote:

The marines were made for conquest not administration, if they weren't all such puffed-up delusional man-children they might just have realised that administration was bound to follow conquest.

Horus was an adept diplomat and administrator who relised that the Terrans buerucrats were forcing worlds into rebellion by overtaxing them. The issue was'nt humans being in positions of power, both Horus and Fuglrim had no problem giving the mechanicum and the Imperial Army leadership huge amounts of respect, Magard Horus's assasin was a lowly freed slave, the issue was that the Emperor wanted to impower people who had no other reasons for being in power than birth.

Considering that the Astartes particularly the Astartes who rebelled were recruited from the lower caste of the Imperium, from gangers, indentured servants, murderers and gladiators. They had been raised up to superhuman level and told they would fight for a new order where humanity would be free of the oppression and superstition that had shackled mankind, then they looked back and found that the new boss was just the same as the old boss and the same donkey-caves who oppressed them in mortal life still thought they owed them something. No wonder they got so pissed off that they'd want the galaxy to burn.

Horus and his turncoat brothers didn’t just start a bloody civil war because of some bureaucrats putting taxes on newly conquered worlds. They rebelled because they wanted to be this new empire’s masters, a position that was denied to them with the establishment of the council of terra, whose members were not warriors, but rather men and women with experience in dealing with economics and politics.

Actually it seems Horus rebelled because the future that he was shown didn't have him in it. His victories all forgotten ect. Which was the current future and he was just not told that he was not in it because he rebelled.

Or... Both.

Horus simply just wanted to rule, to be the new emperor, the rightful master of mankind.

Or perhaps it's just simply "All of The Above"

My favorite characters are Saul Tarvitz, Fulgrim, and Sanguinius.

Tarik and Saul were by far the best.

Fulgrim was a let down, the primarch and the book, I enjoyed the book but I expected more out of him.

Abbadon -- who doesn't like a guy with angry management problems and just wants to kill everything, but at the same time he's tactical in his decision (sometimes not all).

I really liked Rikishio (not sure how its spell so sorry if its wrong) from Garro - Sword Of Truth he was pretty cool until he was betrayed by Hakeem.

 Glorioski wrote:
Abbadon's fortitude is far in excess of Horus' so far in the series. At times Horus, particularly in Flase Gods, has come across as innocent and faltering. Whereas Abbadon has consistently been strong, confident and made the transition from fighting for good to evil without looking like two different people, which Horus does.

Hmm, to an extant I agree, but look at Abaddon when Horus enters the Temple. Abaddon is in pieces at this moment and seems to be the most affected character of all the Luna Wolves, his instability and over reliance on his Primarch is apparent here.

MarsNZ wrote:

How exactly did Legion butcher Alpharius? before that came out information about the Alpha Legion as a whole was scarce at best.

Isn't that the whole point behind the Alpha Legion

I like Omegon because he seems to not wan to go down the path his legion is going. He is like the silent partner in the legion. It is further validated in The Serpent Beneath.

First Chaplain Erebus, because he's the man everyone loves to hate.

Honorable mention to Fabius Bile for the same reason.

Abbadon's fortitude is far in excess of Horus' so far in the series. At times Horus, particularly in Flase Gods, has come across as innocent and faltering. Whereas Abbadon has consistently been strong, confident and made the transition from fighting for good to evil without looking like two different people, which Horus does.

The transition with Horus was bad, reading the later books make him seem like a completely different guy, in Horus Rising he was a marry sue who wants to negotiate with xenos while Abbadon just wants to kill them off.

Horus wanted to negotiate with a human society that had effectively integrated xenos into their society, a society that proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Emperor was going about conquest the wrong way.

How was he a Mary Sue?

John Aticus? Human that is part of the Cabal in Alpha legion

Argel Tal and Cyrene Valantion.
The first heretic is my favourite (and by a long shot!) HH novel. I really understood what could go through a SM mind during his path to heresy, and I understood at least that Horus did not wake up one day shouting "Gak all that, let's kill dad and rule the galaxy!". The characters are really subtle and have a lot of depth.

Lucius. Same as above, I really like how he's treated, noble SM slowly corrupted to the point of no return.

The old Luna Wolf who's limiping (can't remember his name right now). The fact that he is a witness to everything from the start, and that he's displaying an old man's wisdom in a settingnot used to it.

Horus. What's not to like? The archvillain, traitor son, described as powerfull as the big E himself. So archtypical, so grimdark...

Abaddon. Following Horus to the gates of hell (quite literally), blinded by hisadmiration of a crazy man. And also, 10.000 years of continued hate whithout tiring deserves a reward!

Nathaniel Garro. He's a total badass, the dude did what had to be done, managed to alert Rogal Dorn of Horus' treachery and the end of the "The Flight of Eisenstein" is beautiful. The Saint and Garro, together praying to the God-Emperor.

Yep, favorite character by far.

I don't think John Aticus is just a human just like Oll Persson. I think they are some powerful being that live for hundreds of years.

 chaos girl wrote:
I don't think John Aticus is just a human just like Oll Persson. I think they are some powerful being that live for hundreds of years.

John Grammaticus is a human. He died several times, his conscience got somehow placed in new bodies every time by the Cabal.

I have to say that Garviel Loken is probably my favorite character over all....

BUT

I sure am partial to Sergeant Bowe Hellok (from Know No Fear)...that guy was the pure unadulterated essence of what it meant to be a member of the Imerial Guard!

And so far, I have to say that Know No Fear is my favorite book as well. And I have them all

The way that Abnett describes The Campanile hitting Calth Veridian Anchor is some of the most amazing descriptive writing that I have read in a LONG time. I am a huge fan of Abnett (Have all of the Eisenhorn, Ravenor as well as most of the Ghosts books) but the description of that collision is just truly amazing.

I want to read more on Vulkan I swear they better not feth his character up though.

amudkipz wrote:
I want to read more on Vulkan I swear they better not feth his character up though.

Good luck getting a copy of Promethian Sun, sold out and ebay is $150+.

Garro is probably my favourite, with Tarvitz, Loken and Argel Tal not far behind.

I dislike Dorn intensely, his character is portrayed perfectly well but I just hate the way he acts.

Ahzek Ahriman and Argel Tal.

Garro...the guy had stones of steel!

Garvien loken and Saul Tarvitz.
No primarch I like the unexpected heroes.

New fav character, by far kharn

I've only finished Horus Rising, but I gotta say that Garviel Loken is a pretty lovable dude. He's buff, thoughtful, and even though he's a tried-and-true loyalist, he listens to his instincts.

Fav Char is Loken
Fav Battle is the massacre in Isstvan
Fav Book is book 1 of the Horus Heresy

I can't stand either loken or Saul, Loken, not only due they get themselves killed but their best friend as well, can't blame Lucious for hating Saul for causing his almost death..

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Horus wanted to negotiate with a human society that had effectively integrated xenos into their society, a society that proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Emperor was going about conquest the wrong way.

How was he a Mary Sue?

How did the Interex prove in anyway that the Emp is wrong?

because they are friends with aliens? That is something that happened even during the DAoT era. And yet its written countless times that aliens preyed on humanity during its weak point aka "Age of Strife'. The Interex being friends with aliens changes nothing really.

ZSO, SAHAAL wrote:

The marines were made for conquest not administration, if they weren't all such puffed-up delusional man-children they might just have realised that administration was bound to follow conquest.

Horus was an adept diplomat and administrator who relised that the Terrans buerucrats were forcing worlds into rebellion by overtaxing them. The issue was'nt humans being in positions of power, both Horus and Fuglrim had no problem giving the mechanicum and the Imperial Army leadership huge amounts of respect, Magard Horus's assasin was a lowly freed slave, the issue was that the Emperor wanted to impower people who had no other reasons for being in power than birth.

Considering that the Astartes particularly the Astartes who rebelled were recruited from the lower caste of the Imperium, from gangers, indentured servants, murderers and gladiators. They had been raised up to superhuman level and told they would fight for a new order where humanity would be free of the oppression and superstition that had shackled mankind, then they looked back and found that the new boss was just the same as the old boss and the same donkey-caves who oppressed them in mortal life still thought they owed them something. No wonder they got so pissed off that they'd want the galaxy to burn.

The Primarchs and Astartes didn't rebel cause there was no democracy. They rebelled for many reasons one of which is resentment that they who created the imperium are not ruling it. Instead bureaucrats and administrators are the one's ruling it.

And to be frank, this reason just shows how petty the Primarchs and Astartes are.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
How did the Interex prove in anyway that the Emp is wrong?

because they are friends with aliens? That is something that happened even during the DAoT era. And yet its written countless times that aliens preyed on humanity during its weak point aka "Age of Strife'. The Interex being friends with aliens changes nothing really.

No, because their society was upfront and honest about the danger of Chaos, and effectively resisted its allure.

Keeping his subjects and his sons ignorant of the true nature of Chaos allowed the Horus Heresy to be possible.

Though their stance towards aliens was also far more pragmatic than the Emperor's.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
How did the Interex prove in anyway that the Emp is wrong?

because they are friends with aliens? That is something that happened even during the DAoT era. And yet its written countless times that aliens preyed on humanity during its weak point aka "Age of Strife'. The Interex being friends with aliens changes nothing really.

No, because their society was upfront and honest about the danger of Chaos, and effectively resisted its allure.

Keeping his subjects and his sons ignorant of the true nature of Chaos allowed the Horus Heresy to be possible.

Though their stance towards aliens was also far more pragmatic than the Emperor's.

The Interex resisted nothing. Chaos didn't pay any attention to them as they were busy trying to get the Primarchs on their side. When Chaos did screw with the Interex, Chaos got exactly what they wanted.

I answer the Interex thing about alien with CABAL.

Its a great series, and so vast now that I can think of loads, but if I had to pick a slack handful id go with Tarvitz for getting gak done despite his apparent mediocrity, in the same way that only a coward can be truly brave, I find it more of a feat when an average man overcomes his own failings and really pulls it out of the bag.

Torgaddon for his sense of humour during adversity, and Garro for his more quiet brand of loyalty and stoicism.

Easily Gulliman out of the primarchs.

He won me over during Know no Fear following his calm and rational appeal to Lorgar even after he mashed half a planet, before taking down his plea and then calmly making a plan, and then starting to punch peoples heads off.

If I had to serve under a Primarch it would be him, or Sanguinius, and Vulkan. The rest all seem to have real deep rooted emotional issues, the obvious ones being the vast majority of the traitors, but even Dorn, The Lion, Ferrus, Russ and Corax seem to not be all there due to a mixture of masochism, self loathing, daddy issues and depression, plus a bit of blind rage or ill tempered alcoholism

I certainly wouldn't facing being in any of their honor guards!

 baxter123 wrote:
Magnus the Red and his Chief Librarian (Dunno what his name is, can't come to mind)

His name is arihman.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My fave primarch is horus.

Skraal, Ehrlen, Corax.

You could make the argument that Skraal is the most hardcore mofo in HH history, if you really think about it.

Loken, Horus, Corax and Alpharius/Omegon.

Loken for being badass, inteligent and a pretty good fighter.

Horus for being human even though he is superhuman, for being both tender and also able to actively make heads roll

Corax for being the primarch i can relate the most to.

Alpharius/Omegon for being the greatest dicks/scheemers in all of the setting.