As a csm and new ig player. i really don't care@for planes ever one brings 3to6 some times more planes to a game. as a ground pounder and mech head i find this rather just blah. its so unwise to use armor now as with all the flying tanks that even care troops. as they will just lay wast to ur armor and drop a squad of guys off to finsh the job of killing. only way around this is to take defense of works with quad guns and hide be hind them and hope for the best.
Side note my group don't play objective based games always last man standing wins type of games our kill points. ALSO I WILL NEVER BUY A FLYER marines flyer look ugly like a flying rhino. Ig flyer i feel same way. i run mech style marines and tank and foot heavy ig.

ok rant over


men of the 506 foot back to ur bunkers and quad gund

ok... thank you for the incoherent post for the day...

Flyers actually got me interested in trying 6th. though I could see facing so many all the time would get old quick, especially if you aren't going to have an airforce of your own.

Why don't you play the missions? We've been playing the BAO missions and I'd never dream of going back to the days where we just played to the death.

My group only want to beat you down and table u

Get a new group then. That kind of group generally makes one tired of playing ANY game.

Type of group what do you mean

frogy27 wrote:
Type of group what do you mean

The type that wants to beat you down and table you. Find a new group if you aren't enjoying yourself, or adapt your list for the meta, it seems you play Mech IG? That is one of the best codices out there for beating flyer heavy lists without having to bring your own, ADL+Quad Gun adds massive utility to mech guard and Sabre platforms are effective whether or not your opponent brings flyers.

Ok. what's saber platform i take a hydra but it can't intercept flyers and you can't get one from gw and i don't no how to make one.

Correction:

Tanks killed 40k. I hate it when people bring tanks to a game, I just want to play with my flyers and kill enemy flyers, but no, people just have to bring tanks and other stupid ground units. I HATE MY LIFE.

Ok rant over.

If you can't handle fliers from the ground, you're not bringing the weapons to handle them. It's like bringing a list of only flamers and heavy bolters, and then saying that tanks ruined 40k.

There is a new class of targets that needs a new way of thinking to handle them. Once you've got that down, it's no different than remembering to include stuff in your list that can handle AV14 or terminators, or whatever.

I've played some 35 games of 6th edition so far, and, at the absolute most, I've been mildly annoyed by fliers. Never anything close to fear or loathing. Nowadays, I just pack my lists full of meltaguns and lascannons. Fliers are hard to hit, but when you bring a HUGE pile of anti-tank wepaons, you'll hit with 6's eventually, and when you do, fliers go down just like any other vehicle.

all of you are wrong..dice killed warhammer, it was so much better when you just went pew pew, or bang bang and knocked over your opponents minis...ahh the good ole days.

I got in to 40k for ground battles not to have a flying game in it

My only gripe is that anti-air isn't easily available for everyone.

I'm currently fiddling with fantasy. Whenever they make enough changes to make cron air force an unwise army set up I'll come back.

Casual play and tournies that enforce rules that stop that kind of crap will always bring me back into the fold too.

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
all of you are wrong..dice killed warhammer, it was so much better when you just went pew pew, or bang bang and knocked over your opponents minis...ahh the good ole days.

Are you kidding? I still do that.

lolwut? I mean 40k is obviously dead, no one can argue that point with you, but I think you're off-base on the cause. Squats killed 40k. The last survivors were plotting their revenge for years, and then they finally returned to kill the game that killed them off.

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
all of you are wrong..dice killed warhammer, it was so much better when you just went pew pew, or bang bang and knocked over your opponents minis...ahh the good ole days.

Dice didn't kill Warhammer. Fluff and miniatures killed warhammer.

I just want to sit around rolling dice. Is that too much to ask?

 Peregrine wrote:
Correction:

Tanks killed 40k. I hate it when people bring tanks to a game, I just want to play with my flyers and kill enemy flyers, but no, people just have to bring tanks and other stupid ground units. I HATE MY LIFE.

Ok rant over.

+1

As a Flyer spammer, when someone brings cheesy lists like Green Tide or Gaunt Spam, I just want to quit 40k. My lascannons can only kill like 3 of those guys per turn, each. And there are hundreds of them!

Not fair. Give me some flyers to shoot down, or I won't play.

Edit: Now, to seriously address the OP:

Frogy, firstly, I don't know what you are hoping to garner in terms of response, but Dakka is more for discussions than a place to post rants.

Second; Flyers are hardly broken. You just need to shoot more at them. Try some twinlinked weaponry.

Thirdly; if your gaming group just focuses on beating you with unfair advantages, find a new group. That one obviously isn't a good group of people to play with. Playing 40k against people you don't enjoy playing with is a waste of time. I'd rather paint. And I hate painting.

frogy27 wrote:I got in to 40k for ground battles not to have a flying game in it

And you can still win games of 40k by winning ground battles. Fliers don't score. Most games are objective based.

My earlier comment about bringing the right weapons was a tactical one. Strategically speaking, I usually ignore fliers and just focus on the mission, throwing all that fancy firepower at the fliers when it's convenient.

All guns needs sixs to hit flyers .only gun that don't is quad guns only guns i shot at flyers

frogy27 wrote:
All guns needs sixs to hit flyers .only gun that don't is quad guns only guns i shot at flyers

Twin linked weapons get two chances to roll sixes.

frogy27 wrote:
All guns needs sixs to hit flyers .only gun that don't is quad guns only guns i shot at flyers

So then bring more guns. Hitting on 6s just means you need to shoot them more, giving up and saying "it's impossible" is just an easy way to stop having fun.

Im sorry but this tread makes me lol. Flyers are not all that heck im starting a Eldar force and you wanna kno how I am gonna deal with fliers im either just going to ignore them or use guide or pesience on a unit of war walkers and watch those 24 str6 shots do their job. Seriously you play guard you have some of the easiest times killing fliers you have valkyries vendettas Hydra Flakk Tanks and you can get twin linked weapons via a certain order. Seriously your codex is one of the best in the game you have no right to complain about fliers. If your gaming group are such a problem then get a new one. I play in a gaming group where we have 2 competitive players (while they kick my ass constantly im not bothered.) and we also have me and a ultramarines player and a guard player and my partner who is a beginner who plays orks. The guard player takes a vendetta at 1k and one of the competitive players takes 3 vendettas at 1k do you see me complaining?. Best way to handle things like fliers is to generally ignore them

I agree. There is too much disparity between armies that can take 9 or more of them and armies that can do dick about them.

My only issues with flyers is that it makes Assault Armies even more weaker when it comes to fighting on the table.

So your implying that no Army in the Entirity of 40k would not Posses dedicated air support ? The introduction of Flyers added a new aspect to the Game of 40k that was only really seen in Apocalypse . Units would have Dedicated Air support depending on the importance of their operation - You play mech Guard , ADAPT that is where guard is the most damn flexable adapt to the damn game if you don't you die off -- Hydras are dirt cheap 75 PPM and you can take 3 of em in a squadren and they have 12 Armor ! better then a quad gun --- Any thing ( Flyer ) these shoot at will gurenteed be knocked out or severly damaged --- This Dakkanaughts is a typical case of someone thowing a BitC* fit over not wanting to adapt to the changing times and Meta

@OP

I am deeply sorry if you take this personally, but your grammar was absolutely atrocious, made me hurt reading it.

Moving on:
If you cannot take the game, then leave it. The game is "ruined" in each and every edition. Last edition was vehicles making everyone meched and overpowered, not to mention GK.

Besides, if you got a problem with fliers, take Anti-Aircraft guns, makes the opponent have a problem with AAguns.

Also if you think Imperial Guard have a hard time dealing with fliers try playing Daemons or Eldar then you will learn what having a hard time is like

Captaintyrius wrote:
Also if you think Imperial Guard have a hard time dealing with fliers try playing Daemons or Eldar then you will learn what having a hard time is like

I'm not sure why your listing daemons, they have flying MC that has either good vector strikes (Bloodthirster), ability to fire ranged anti-vehicle (Flying chicken), and Daemon Princes can fly and gain ranged anti-tank as well.

It's specific, but they do.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Captaintyrius wrote:
Also if you think Imperial Guard have a hard time dealing with fliers try playing Daemons or Eldar then you will learn what having a hard time is like

I'm not sure why your listing daemons, they have flying MC that has either good vector strikes (Bloodthirster), ability to fire ranged anti-vehicle (Flying chicken), and Daemon Princes can fly and gain ranged anti-tank as well.

It's specific, but they do.

I was mainly refering to the random nature of the army and the sheer fact of everything has to come in via deep strike

Hydras can't hit flyers in less you get sixes sothey ant that good. and i will not get a flyer just to fit in as i no you you have to run them for your army to be any good. also the hole objective games are points less. if you get tabled you lose it easier to do that then take objective. air power really helps if you want to table people and just out right win games. big reason i want do trounys any more all about how fast you can table your opponent. not how many objectives you got. seems that a game that should be fun and friendly is very way opposite it all about wining and bashing the hell out of peoples armys.

frogy27 wrote:
Hydras can't hit flyers in less you get sixes sothey ant that good. and i will not get a flyer just to fit in as i no you you have to run them for your army to be any good. also the hole objective games are points less. if you get tabled you lose it easier to do that then take objective. air power really helps if you want to table people and just out right win games. big reason i want do trounys any more all about how fast you can table your opponent. not how many objectives you got. seems that a game that should be fun and friendly is very way opposite it all about wining and bashing the hell out of peoples armys.

Erm, nor to sure about the rest of your post, but hydra's have skyfire and have long range and are twinlinked BS 3, so they murder most flyers as intended, sure they suck against ground targets now, but for 75 points you could do worse.

frogy27 wrote:
Hydras can't hit flyers in less you get sixes sothey ant that good.

You might want to read the rules again before writing your next rant. Hydras hit flyers on normal BS.

Also, your spelling and grammar are awful. Please fix them if you want anyone to take you seriously.

if you get tabled you lose it easier to do that then take objective.

Not at all true. Tabling a good player is hard, and depending on tabling to win when your opponent is playing to claim objectives is almost a guaranteed loss.

From they way i understand only guns with intercept can shot at flyers and not need sixs but also you can't hyrda from gw so ill never get one

frogy27 wrote:
From they way i understand only guns with intercept can shot at flyers and not need sixs but also you can't hyrda from gw so ill never get one

Then you need to read the rules again until you do understand them, because you're wrong. Start on page 42 with the Skyfire rule.

Also, please spend more time on your posts and use proper spelling and grammar.

I think the main issue is that he dislikes the guard models, however an eldar allied detachment (as mentioned earlier), with 3 warwalkers with scatter lasers and a farseer could work.

Crisis averted glue quad gun from defense line onto the back of watever tank chassis you have, or hell just take a def3nse line like 50 points and have yourself a nice little aa base tucked away on the board somewhere to shoot at those pesky fly-flys

frogy27 wrote:
Hydras can't hit flyers in less you get sixes sothey ant that good. and i will not get a flyer just to fit in as i no you you have to run them for your army to be any good. also the hole objective games are points less. if you get tabled you lose it easier to do that then take objective. air power really helps if you want to table people and just out right win games. big reason i want do trounys any more all about how fast you can table your opponent. not how many objectives you got. seems that a game that should be fun and friendly is very way opposite it all about wining and bashing the hell out of peoples armys.

Im sorry if this comes across as too harsh but you need to grow up and man up. So what if people prefere blasting peoples armys away to playing for objectives? il admit I prefere to destroy my opponents army however I still play for objectives. I think your problem is that your trying to play fun friendly lists against hardcore lists. You either need to man up and step yo game up or go fidn yoself another gaming group

If I may, Mr. Frogy, is it? Let's you and I have a little chat. I have observed three things that are becoming increasingly apparent the more you post in this thread:

1) You seem totally unwilling to learn, adapt, be flexible or in any way aid your own cause in terms of successfully playing a game with fairly frequent rules and/or meta changes. This unfortunate, as you will are willfully denying yourself a chance to enjoy a game for which you must have some measure of enthusiasm. Not only is your army one of the most adaptable, you have received numerous helpful suggestions which involve only minor adjustments to your army, and you have refused them all out of hand. I can only conclude that you are intent on ruining the game for yourself. Buy a new unit or two, or find some new people to play the game with.

2) You seem to have a tenuous grasp on the game of 40k itself as it is, and I think you would be well served by a better understanding of the rules and how to play. For example, interceptor allows you to fire at the end of an opponents movement phase, while skyfire allows you to shoot at flyers with full BS. As another example, you say you have never played and have no desire to learn objective-based missions. These are a core part of the game, and the current rules are designed to synergize with objectives, they are one of the reasons a strong ground force is still more important to victory than flyers.

3) No offense intended, I say this with the utmost sincerity, but you really need to learn some basic spelling and grammar. Your posts are nearly unintelligible, and it makes it incredibly hard to take you seriously, or want to help.

TL,DR? Listen to the helpful suggestions from the nice dakka people, and make some sort of adjustment so that you can better enjoy playing 40k, or else maybe find some other interest for which you are better suited.

one must ask a question... "is froggy trollin?" for i fear that he must be...... because if not... well...

The oft-used quote: "Never attribute to malice.. "

should apply until proven otherwise.

There is not one thing killing 40k. There are plenty of things killing it.

Elitist players.

Rules that are too situational/confusing

Units that can only be taken out by "Rock Paper Scissor" tactics (eg. To kill a Landraider you need a Broadside, if Tau). When playing in low point matches this is doubly so.

Price Increases.

Codex Pricing issues. Why is it the same cost for a Digital Copy vs a paperback?

Codex release schedule. Much like Valve with HL2ep3 not much about upcoming products comes out from GW until a week before release.

Lack of Advertising. As far as having a public face, GW seems to not want to pay for advertising. You get tiny trailer, but you won't see any commercials on Youtube or any streaming service.

Fliers? They have rules that are exceptions to everything. Worst being that they can only be hit with SnapShots. But eventually armies will get Skyfire weapons and forget all about the Snap Shot fiasco because everyone will have a dedicated skyfire unit.

Right now everyone is just using Aegis Defense Line and it is too samey/weird. Especially for Tyranids.

OK, I've to admit that I am the one killing 40k. But you'll never catch me.

frogy27 wrote:
From they way i understand only guns with intercept can shot at flyers and not need sixs but also you can't hyrda from gw so ill never get one

1. Intercept does not help with flyers, on its own. It is used against units coming on from reserves.
2. You need to know about Skyfire. See the BRB.
3. If GW doesn't make a hyrda, take note of the comments that it's built using a Chimera chassis. Use the quad gun from a ADL pack and strap it to the back of one. If that's too difficult, or offends you too much, you're probably in the wrong hobby.

You did get hold of a codex, didn't you?
If so, get this:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3030001a_40K_RULEBOOK_v1.3_FEBRUARY13.pdf
and this:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3030015a_Imperial_Guard_v1.2_FEBRUARY13.pdf
Read them well, and note the changes to your codex as listed here.

Whar changes did they print a up datef dex and i got a old one


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Whar changes did they print a up datef dex and i got a old one


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Just looking at my dex nothing that says hydra can shot at flyers at normal bs

If you could please make a bit more effort with regards to spelling, punctuation and grammar your posts will be easier to understand, which will elicit better responses from other posters.

Please bear in mind we have members from all around the globe, many of whom don't have English as their first tongue.

Thanks

Also belive if gw dont make a model for unit type you can't use the just in dex to be cool. I so want storm troopers but you can't get them

The biggest issue with Fliers right now is that few armies have more than one counter to them, as Skyfire is not prevalent in this edition yet. Most armies can take an Aegis Defence Line, and other armies have some other sort of flier to counter fliers, but not everyone has fliers (meaning players) or an ADL. Under this situation, you have very few ways to counter a flier or two, and the Necron Flying circus is infamous for a good reason. Until there are more ways to hard counter fliers (or at least give them more reason to be used tactically, rather than toss them in there like they just the Mario Star) they will always be a massive point of contention.

frogy27 wrote:
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Just looking at my dex nothing that says hydra can shot at flyers at normal bs

Note that GW updates codices every 4-5 years or so.
If you have the same cover on your codex as on the GW site, it is the most up-to-date there is. Everyone has an old one.
The point of the erratas is to update the codex without a reprint.
Look up the word "errata", and read the FAQs introduction page on GW's website.

The ONLY codices with updates about full-BS against fliers (known as Skyfire) are DA and Chaos Marines, having been released in hardback, and after Skyfire existed.
Fliers didn't really exist until 6th, so your codex has no idea what one is.

Even so, if a unit has not got Skyfire, throw enough high-S shots at it, some will eventually hit.

frogy27 wrote:
Also belive if gw dont make a model for unit type you can't use the just in dex to be cool. I so want storm troopers but you can't get them

That is incorrect, and has no basis in any rules. You can indeed use hydras; either the FW one, or kitbash your own.

frogy27 wrote:
Also belive if gw dont make a model for unit type you can't use the just in dex to be cool. I so want storm troopers but you can't get them

Um, you can definitely buy storm troopers from GW. And Kasrkin models can be used as storm troopers. And you can convert stuff, heck there are units that require conversions to exist. And then there's always forgeworld...

Seriously though, read the 6th edition rulebook. Then read the most recent codex. Then the FAQs.

frogy27 wrote:

Just looking at my dex nothing that says hydra can shot at flyers at normal bs

Buy the 6th edition rule book and read it, specifically the section on fliers.

Go to the GW site and download the IG Codex FAQ and 40k Rulebook FAQ.

 Skinnereal wrote:

frogy27 wrote:
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Just looking at my dex nothing that says hydra can shot at flyers at normal bs

Note that GW updates codices every 4-5 years or so.
If you have the same cover on your codex as on the GW site, it is the most up-to-date there is. Everyone has an old one.
The point of the erratas is to update the codex without a reprint.
Look up the word "errata", and read the FAQs introduction page on GW's website.

The ONLY codices with updates about full-BS against fliers (known as Skyfire) are DA and Chaos Marines, having been released in hardback, and after Skyfire existed.
Fliers didn't really exist until 6th, so your codex has no idea what one is.

Even so, if a unit has not got Skyfire, throw enough high-S shots at it, some will eventually hit.

This. I play Eldar most of the time and we have no skyfire options. You would be amazed what a full unit of scatter walkers with guide will do to a flier. Just off the top of my head (not alot experience with IG) can't you take auto cannons as weapons platforms? I have seen those tear up fliers as well.

Fliers are simply another part of the game. You can use them, ignore them and/or bring tools to kill them.

Recently I've been ignoring them, works really well since I kill everything on the ground faster and then let the little zippers do nothing for the rest of the game.

frogy27 wrote:
Also belive if gw dont make a model for unit type you can't use the just in dex to be cool. I so want storm troopers but you can't get them

...do you just think that's a rule, or do you seriously believe that as a code of honour?

This thread is hurting my brain.

 afelt.tech wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:

frogy27 wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just looking at my dex nothing that says hydra can shot at flyers at normal bs

Note that GW updates codices every 4-5 years or so.
If you have the same cover on your codex as on the GW site, it is the most up-to-date there is. Everyone has an old one.
The point of the erratas is to update the codex without a reprint.
Look up the word "errata", and read the FAQs introduction page on GW's website.

The ONLY codices with updates about full-BS against fliers (known as Skyfire) are DA and Chaos Marines, having been released in hardback, and after Skyfire existed.
Fliers didn't really exist until 6th, so your codex has no idea what one is.

Even so, if a unit has not got Skyfire, throw enough high-S shots at it, some will eventually hit.

This. I play Eldar most of the time and we have no skyfire options. You would be amazed what a full unit of scatter walkers with guide will do to a flier. Just off the top of my head (not alot experience with IG) can't you take auto cannons as weapons platforms? I have seen those tear up fliers as well.

Unfortunately, War Walkers are Guardians, still, and there's still a good chance you can fail to hurt a flier, even with Guide. Not to mention, Warwalkers die slightly slower than gerbils in punching bags filled with glass (thank you, Zero Punctuation), and people who play Eldar a lot know this. Needless to say, when your Warwalkers die, you don't have a good answer to replace them (unless you're willing to spend $180 +tax for 2 squads of 3 Warwalkers.
Though they are much better off at taking down fliers at ranged than, say, Tau ( I think) which really speaks to how well the Eldar codex is written. Granted, our lives will be much easier once we get the codex updated, but I think a lot of people would be happy if we were given SOMETHING FAQ'd with Skyfire.

IG anti-aircraft options and other advice

- Hydra - long range , no jink save ( targeters was FAQ'd ) sky fire , strength 7 shots - 75

Vendetta - x3 lascannons , thick armor , out flank , cheap - multi- purpose , transport capacity

Heavy Weapon Squads - issue " Bring it down " and fill the air with AAA from autocannons ( or las if you choose)

2) get an updated codex

3) Learn basic English skills and grammar

IMHO - flyers improved the game , yes it has some teething problems with a lack of widely available sky fire units , but it will change as codices come out

frogy27 wrote:
I can't buy fw as i live in usa and if a unit don't have model then you can't field it and why would any one destroy something and spend all that money to just cut something up

I live in the USA and I can buy Forge World. I also take the time to make sure 99% of my words are spelled correctly, sentences are punctuated, and avoid "l33t" speak. Please do the same.

There is NO such rule as you can't field a unit if there is no model for it. None. Stop saying that and learn the art of...

Conversions, my man. Go through the Dakka Gallery and you'll see a number of models that people have converted. A part from this, a part from that: BLAMMO! A model that doesn't have an "official" model, yet. Don't be so close minded.

So, what I'm gathering is you play in a group that only plays 'til every last unit of your opponents' army is dead, and you're sick of having your weak-sauce IG killed en masse to a Heldrake (which is the only real flyer threat worth considering when you're building a list, imo), and you would rather complain about how that single unit has ruined your fun than read the FAQs, 6e rule book, and adjust your lists accordingly.

Now, I get the "I don't wanna buy Space Marine flyers 'cause they're ugly" argument -- let's face it, they're ugly. But if you really want to run them, you can scratch build or kitbash your own, or even buy a 1:48 - 1:64 scale WW2 jet and just call it good.

I would say "just ignore the flyers," but you wouldn't have started this thread if that tactic was already working for you. It sounds like you need to change your perceptions, adjust for a new edition, or change games, 'cause there are a lot of people who either enjoy flyers or have come to terms with them in one way or another.

TLDR: I agree with everyone above.

I will never make my own models i will not wreck a model to build hydra and our any model so you limited to whatit you can field from gw very limited. as to what they give you like. all the artillery the y say you can use but don't give you that many models. so what they in codex to look cool.

Could always play 'counts as' units? Take a basilisk and say 'this is a Medusa.' Maybe even put a sticky note on it.

You should play Orks. Then your horrible grammar would be fluffy and cute instead of headache inducing.

frogy27 wrote:
I will never make my own models i will not wreck a model to build hydra and our any model so you limited to whatit you can field from gw very limited. as to what they give you like. all the artillery the y say you can use but don't give you that many models. so what they in codex to look cool.

Then your solution is an Aegis Defense Line. $30 for the kit, 100 points for the line with a quad gun -- it also has interceptor, so it fires on tanks at full BS[read: it also pops tanks!]

What are you hoping to get out of this? A magic redact of flyer rules, or reasonable options to combat them? You've already been given the second, over and over again.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
You should play Orks. Then your horrible grammar would be fluffy and cute instead of headache inducing.

Thank you, no. He should probably just stick to Monopoly.

Seriously, Froggy, you don't like modeling, you don't like playing by the rules (because you haven't read them), are you *sure* you aren't just playing army men with Citadel miniatures?

Flyers aint so bad. They are good for 2 to 3 turns in the game but the other turns they are not there.

frogy27 wrote:
Hydras can't hit flyers in less you get sixes sothey ant that good. and i will not get a flyer just to fit in as i no you you have to run them for your army to be any good. also the hole objective games are points less. if you get tabled you lose it easier to do that then take objective. air power really helps if you want to table people and just out right win games. big reason i want do trounys any more all about how fast you can table your opponent. not how many objectives you got. seems that a game that should be fun and friendly is very way opposite it all about wining and bashing the hell out of peoples armys.

If your gaming group has shifted toward WAAC games, then why dont you try and find a new circle to play in?
when the Meta in your area shifts, or in this case the meta for the game as a whole has shifted toward flyers a bit, then you need to learn to adapt to it. This is how 40k has worked since its inception.
I bring a single Nephilim (not even a great flier) and a single ADL and Quad in most of my lists. That can handle most peoples air power. I havent come up against Vendetta spam etc yet, as im lucky. In my area people use a flier or 2 as air support yes, but that is about the extent of it.

It does seem like you just need to adapt your play style to take on fliers as well. You said you have a Hydra. That is great anti air! its a moving quad gun! IG are not stuck for anti air.


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frogy27 wrote:
I will never make my own models i will not wreck a model to build hydra and our any model so you limited to whatit you can field from gw very limited. as to what they give you like. all the artillery the y say you can use but don't give you that many models. so what they in codex to look cool.

What are you talking about? Converting is part of this hobby for a lot of people. And a lot of codexes (or should it be codices here?) still have units in them which have no GW model. So buck up and build one. People have already given you a simple conversion for a hydra.
Everyone in this thread is trying to help you, and indeed has helped you, despite your unwillingness to accept our suggestions. If you really cant take any of this on board, then you are a lost cause.

If you are too stubborn and foolish to take advice on how to resolve all these problems you are whining about., then I think you may need to leave 40k alone. You and it are not destined to be together.

I'm not saying its a guarantee or anything, but most other eldar players I know consider the 3 scatter walkers a must have. 24 str6 shots with re-rolls has a pretty good shot at glancing an AV 12 flier to death. That being said, hopefully this fall we will get something designed to do it better.

And back on topic for the OP, there have been alot of great suggestions listed here... and with out knowing what you already own, I doubt you will get anything better. The defense line seems like the best and cheapest option to me.

No offence to the op but you seem like the kind of person who would call any army which gave them a curb stomping cheesey. If you think you have problems with fliars oh boy prey to god that you never face a daemon army which fields a miniumum of 5 flying monstrous creatures. Also the fact your complaining about anti air makes me LOL as I have said I am planning to start a eldar force yet do you see me bitching about how Eldar have nothing with Skyfire and dont have a flier of their own in their own codex yet? no as I get on with it. Heck I play a fluffy word bearers chaos space marine army along with a fluffy thousand sons one. You feel fliers make your life hard in ga,me try playing a pure 1k son list

I wanted to write a coherent and persuasive reply, but the OP's clearly foreign grammar and the consequent language barrier dissuaded me.

Sufficient to say, when flyers are abused they are broken, when they're done in good taste they're very cool.

Nothing is worse than a Daemon army. That is all.

You really want to know what is killing 40k?

The internet.

The IG have the best AAA platforms in the game and you are getting tabled by air power?
Just because a kit doesn't exist doesn't mean you can't use it, hell even if a kit of it does exist you don't have to use it.
Take my Hydras.

The first two images are of A-ko and B-ko. They used to counts as LRBT Exterminators (untill A later heavy battle sentinel was built). The kit is was cheap and with a bit of plascard, some bits from the bitz boxz you have a very cool looking unit (I always tell folks that they are Hydras and the nod after going "COOL!").
The second two images are of my Hydra called "Lead Slinger" built to look like what is in the codex. Its only used in 1000pts games where the points matter.
Adapt or die, tiss the way of life and war.

frogy27 wrote:
I will never make my own models i will not wreck a model to build hydra

So you refuse to buy the FW model.

You refuse to kitbash your own, like hundreds of IG players everywhere have done

and then you complain that you can't use hydras?

Is this serious?

That is a pretty killer home brew job Ribon.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
You really want to know what is killing 40k?

The internet.

This is very nearly sig worthy

I have no idea how to build any thing but what comes in the box. like how do people get all them different types of tanks ,vets ,stormtroops and all that other artillery .as the don't make models for them and i ant got British money so can't get fw models
if there not a model. for it you can't use that unit

frogy27 wrote:
I have no idea how to build any thing but what comes in the box.

You have to try. You take parts, and scraps of stuff you have around the house, glue it together, and make it look like a model. This is totally allowed in the rules.

like how do people get all them different types of tanks ,vets ,stormtroops and all that other artillery .as the don't make models for them

Well, veterans just use regular IG models, stormtroopers have their own models by GW, and artillery is bought from FW or made from scratch.

and i ant got British money so can't get fw models

I have never had a british dollar ever. The beauty of the internet, is you can buy things that cost British money with American money. The computer changes your American money into British money when you make the purchase. You never even have to touch a British dollar (and thank goodness, amirite?)

if there not a model. for it you can't use that unit

This is not true. Whoever told you this is a liar.

-TheCaptain

 monolythic wrote:
I wanted to write a coherent and persuasive reply, but the OP's clearly foreign grammar and the consequent language barrier dissuaded me.

He's actually apparently an American.

I bought a Talon the day it came out. Love it. Bought a Raven two weeks ago, when the CH kit gets installed I will love it. When I finally play with them, Im sure I will love them. 40K lives on.

And that my friends was my contribution to this thread. Good day.

frogy27 wrote:
and i ant got British money so can't get fw models

Annnnd I'm done with this thread. Welcome to Ignoreland

If you are having problems building kits, then look on youtube, or take up heroclix. If you are super desperate, look on ebay for the hydra kit, or even buy a generic AA WWII gun platform for 10 bucks.

Oh dear does this guy not realise you can use most currency to buy FW. Seriously guys lets not feed this troll let him slink back to his lair just because his gaming group consistantly kick his ass. Maybe he will eventually man up grow a back bone and actually convert his own Hydra.

Captaintyrius wrote:
Oh dear does this guy not realise you can use most currency to buy FW. Seriously guys lets not feed this troll let him slink back to his lair just because his gaming group consistantly kick his ass. Maybe he will eventually man up grow a back bone and actually convert his own Hydra.

This seems a little excessively aggressive.

Your stubborn refusal to accept any helpful suggestions has made it clear that you are beyond helping, frogy. So I only returned to this thread to see what new deranged forms of the english language you would invent, and then you provided this gem:

frogy27 wrote:
i ant got British money so can't get fw models

I...words almost fail me...at first I simply thought you didn't really have a firm understanding of 40k, but the problem is clearly much deeper than that. I tried to imagine what the world must look like through your eyes, but I had to stop myself for fear that I might never again find my way out of that rabbit hole with my sanity intact.

It does amuse me, though, that he capitalized "British".

If one thing can be said about the lad, it is that he respects proper nouns.

And what's wrong withuse the term British money and i believe that you need British money to get fw

frogy27 wrote:
i believe that you need British money to get fw

Whoever told you this is lying.

You can use American money.

Maybe if you read all of the posts, you would have learned that already.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Like right here, if you scroll up, you will see that your question was already answered several posts ago.

 TheCaptain wrote:

and i ant got British money so can't get fw models

I have never had a british dollar ever. The beauty of the internet, is you can buy things that cost British money with American money. The computer changes your American money into British money when you make the purchase. You never even have to touch a British dollar.

We're all trying ridiculously hard to help you, but you have to read our posts and listen to what advice we are giving you.

I play daemons. I have 0 shooting in my army, and nothing in my army can hurt flyers.

And I don't care in the slightest, because i'm killing their army faster than they can kill mine, even with flyers.

(No, I don't spam flamers/screamers)

Yes, some flyers are tragic for AP3, but surely that's a wake-up call that you shouldn't rely entirely on power armour? Maybe it's time to start using cover as marines? Or in the case of the chaos space marine flyer...it's rear armour is low, if it vector strikes over you, it's pointing it's big rocket butt at you as it goes past, and even bolter's can glance that to death

Captaintyrius wrote:
Oh dear does this guy not realise you can use most currency to buy FW. Seriously guys lets not feed this troll let him slink back to his lair just because his gaming group consistantly kick his ass. Maybe he will eventually man up grow a back bone and actually convert his own Hydra.

I just think he is young, very young.

Two things.
One: frogy27, could you please try to use proper grammar in your posts? Some of us are getting headaches, and our brains shut off after the first line of poor writing.

Two: If someone's bringing 3 flyers at 1k points, they'll not be getting objectives. They're looking to table you.
how to counter that you ask? The answer is simple. Either find overhead cover in terrain (like ruins), or spam troops to chuck at the objectives.
My CSM army can spit out well over 40 marines at a time in a game, and if you sit them in cover with some weapon upgrades and take potshots at the very few troops the enemy will have, you'll win.

Haha, as a dark eldar player I can just say that the general best awnser for good anti air is to keep moving. Flyers have rubbish mobillaty while dark eldars have quite a lot. What army do you play anyway? Orks would not mind a flyer, there are just so many orks. Do you just sit back and get shot at like a shooting gallery?

frogy27 wrote:
And what's wrong withuse the term British money and i believe that you need British money to get fw

You believe wrongly mate. Forgeworld ship overseas, and online transactions automatically exchange currency so you dont need 'British money'. And its the Pound by the way, not a British dollar

 Niiai wrote:
Haha, as a dark eldar player I can just say that the general best awnser for good anti air is to keep moving. Flyers have rubbish mobillaty while dark eldars have quite a lot. What army do you play anyway? Orks would not mind a flyer, there are just so many orks. Do you just sit back and get shot at like a shooting gallery?

Orks have the best troop spam! If you aim to use all 6 slots, the rage the enemy will have against you would be exquisite!

1k points anti-triple-flyer troll army:

HQ: Big Mek w/ KFF (85pts)

Troops: 30x Ork boyz w/ shootaz, 3 rokkits (210pts)
Troops: 30x Ork boyz w/ shootaz, 3 rokkits (210pts)
Troops: 30x Ork boyz w/ shootaz, 3 rokkits (210pts)
Troops: 30x Ork boyz w/ shootaz, 3 rokkits (210pts)
Troops: 11x Ork Boyz w/ shootaz, 1 rokkit (76pts)

Total: 1001 pts

Just put the mek in one of the large boyz mobs, put the rest in cover, and keep them spread out to avoid death by pie plate!

frogy27 wrote:
My group only want to beat you down and table u

Good to see we have some Orks posting to the forum.

I'm not sure that flyers are all that good. The counter to a flyer is a quad gun or Icarus lascannon with interceptor. Flyers seem to die the round they come in, unless the gun gets a few bad rolls. Even if you can't kill it the round you come in, it's gotta go after your lascannon or quad gun or it will die the next turn.

(I play Necrons, so I don't bring either of them. Flyers die horribly to 20 rapid fire guass warriors with tank hunter).

frogy27 wrote:
And what's wrong withuse the term British money and i believe that you need British money to get fw

I only use British money, but I buy from US sites all the time.
FW will take any currency, as PayPal and credit card companies convert to anything.

[Edit: rudeness removed]

 Skinnereal wrote:

frogy27 wrote:
And what's wrong withuse the term British money and i believe that you need British money to get fw

As my final morsel I throw to the troll, I only use British money, but I buy from US sites all the time.
FW will take any currency, as PayPal and credit card companies convert to anything.
But, I won't see your reply to see if this helps, as you're the first person on my ignore list.

Bye bye, frogy

FW wont take all currency...they wont take my soul for the DoK range

 Ribon Fox wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:

frogy27 wrote:
And what's wrong withuse the term British money and i believe that you need British money to get fw

As my final morsel I throw to the troll, I only use British money, but I buy from US sites all the time.
FW will take any currency, as PayPal and credit card companies convert to anything.
But, I won't see your reply to see if this helps, as you're the first person on my ignore list.

Bye bye, frogy

FW wont take all currency...they wont take my soul for the DoK range

At the rate things are going, GW will be accepting that as standard payment, by this time next year

 Ribon Fox wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:

frogy27 wrote:
And what's wrong withuse the term British money and i believe that you need British money to get fw

As my final morsel I throw to the troll, I only use British money, but I buy from US sites all the time.
FW will take any currency, as PayPal and credit card companies convert to anything.
But, I won't see your reply to see if this helps, as you're the first person on my ignore list.

Bye bye, frogy

FW wont take all currency...they wont take my soul for the DoK range

You lose your soul the first time you buy FW.

Good thing I've never had the cash to, most of it goes on food :(

I was laughing quite a bit at this thread and then the wife who works with special needs children asked a question ...and then I was like ohhhhh.....

but on a serious note though ...frogy you're beating a dead horse..listen to these people or stop complaining..all you're doing is setting yourself up for early onset of arthritis in your fingers if you keep this up...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and why the heck was my home country flag changed to peurto rico? wtf

 Sasori wrote:

I just think he is young, very young.

Yeah. I'm guessing 12 or so.

You know what they say,
"There are none so blind as those who will not see"

Your solutions are simple
1. Play objectives.
2. Get some anti-air, Hydra/emplaced AA
3. Learn to kit bash, it's not hard, a chimera with a quad cannon on the back makes a good hydra.

May we ask how old you are? Not to be offensive, but you seem to have a sub-par grasp of the rules, and an almost non-existent knowledge of economics and converting/modeling.

My biggest chuckle with fliers is whoever priced the vendetta. Someone sat there and thought, lets make a flying lascannon predator but with one less front armor, and while were at it why don't we let it carry troops and for a cherry on top I think all the cannons should be twin linked that fires at full bs while moving. Oh and it Should definitely cost less.

krazykishere wrote:
My biggest chuckle with fliers is whoever priced the vendetta. Someone sat there and thought, lets make a flying lascannon predator but with one less front armor, and while were at it why don't we let it carry troops and for a cherry on top I think all the cannons should be twin linked that fires at full bs while moving. Oh and it Should definitely cost less.

When the vendetta was made, it was a skimmer...

130 for a wave serpent with three TL lascannons isn't THAT ridiculous.

krazykishere wrote:
My biggest chuckle with fliers is whoever priced the vendetta. Someone sat there and thought, lets make a flying lascannon predator but with one less front armor, and while were at it why don't we let it carry troops and for a cherry on top I think all the cannons should be twin linked that fires at full bs while moving. Oh and it Should definitely cost less.

Reeks of Matt Ward.. Maybe he got into the printer just before codex production began, because he simply had to put cheese everywhere

krazykishere wrote:
My biggest chuckle with fliers is whoever priced the vendetta. Someone sat there and thought, lets make a flying lascannon predator but with one less front armor, and while were at it why don't we let it carry troops and for a cherry on top I think all the cannons should be twin linked that fires at full bs while moving. Oh and it Should definitely cost less.

The Vendetta WAS a skimmer, and it was fairly priced for a skimmer as well. When 6th came out, it became a flier, and it happened to age well. The price really should be much higher, and I am surprised they haven't FAQ'd it yet

 washout77 wrote:

krazykishere wrote:
My biggest chuckle with fliers is whoever priced the vendetta. Someone sat there and thought, lets make a flying lascannon predator but with one less front armor, and while were at it why don't we let it carry troops and for a cherry on top I think all the cannons should be twin linked that fires at full bs while moving. Oh and it Should definitely cost less.

The Vendetta WAS a skimmer, and it was fairly priced for a skimmer as well. When 6th came out, it became a flier, and it happened to age well. The price really should be much higher, and I am surprised they haven't FAQ'd it yet

Why would they? They're part of the IOM, sopposedly the most technologically disadvantaged race [Because orks have waaagh majykz], with the most oppressed people, and armies that get massacred by the millions, why wouldn't they have an OP super-unit?

 washout77 wrote:

krazykishere wrote:
My biggest chuckle with fliers is whoever priced the vendetta. Someone sat there and thought, lets make a flying lascannon predator but with one less front armor, and while were at it why don't we let it carry troops and for a cherry on top I think all the cannons should be twin linked that fires at full bs while moving. Oh and it Should definitely cost less.

The Vendetta WAS a skimmer, and it was fairly priced for a skimmer as well. When 6th came out, it became a flier, and it happened to age well. The price really should be much higher, and I am surprised they haven't FAQ'd it yet

It wasn't even priced well back then. It was underpriced by a fair bit.

Selym wrote:

Why would they? They're part of the IOM, sopposedly the most technologically disadvantaged race [Because orks have waaagh majykz], with the most oppressed people, and armies that get massacred by the millions, why wouldn't they have an OP super-unit?

I can't tell if you're serious.

The Vendetta is hardly an OP super-unit.

It's three lascannons. They can't shoot until turn 2 at the earliest. They have fixed mobility. They're armor 12, 12, 10. That means bolters glance their rear armor.

That's not OP. That's just a good unit.

The broken thing is the lack of anti-air. It has nothing to do with the Vendetta.

frogy27 wrote:

Side note my group don't play objective based games always last man standing wins type of games our kill points.

There's your problem. You're playing with guys that want to play with house rules. Demand objective games.

Selym wrote:

 washout77 wrote:

krazykishere wrote:
My biggest chuckle with fliers is whoever priced the vendetta. Someone sat there and thought, lets make a flying lascannon predator but with one less front armor, and while were at it why don't we let it carry troops and for a cherry on top I think all the cannons should be twin linked that fires at full bs while moving. Oh and it Should definitely cost less.

The Vendetta WAS a skimmer, and it was fairly priced for a skimmer as well. When 6th came out, it became a flier, and it happened to age well. The price really should be much higher, and I am surprised they haven't FAQ'd it yet

Why would they? They're part of the IOM, sopposedly the most technologically disadvantaged race [Because orks have waaagh majykz], with the most oppressed people, and armies that get massacred by the millions, why wouldn't they have an OP super-unit?

The Vendetta is strong, wouldn't call it OP though (and I play quite a few armies besides IG, so I have faced just as many Vendetta's as I have used them. Which is not at all, because im too lazy to put together the model for it yet while my foot army is still working haha). There is a difference between being OP and just being really underpriced. It doesn't need any rule changes, it just needs to be costed higher.

Being undercosted was the point heh. It just seems most ridiculous to me when I lookk at it next to my las predator. Oh I forgot that it also has skyfire.

krazykishere wrote:
Being undercosted was the point heh. It just seems most ridiculous to me when I lookk at it next to my las predator. Oh I forgot that it also has skyfire.

Well the Las Predator also is horribly overcosted. Not exactly a fair comparison.

I do not think the chaos predator is badly priced and that is the one I am comparing it to.

Leave my Vendettas alone it's the only bit of super tech the IG have. The rest of the stuff we have to use is junk compared to it

krazykishere wrote:
I do not think the chaos predator is badly priced and that is the one I am comparing it to.

Okay, so your Las Predator is 10 points more than a similar unit in the IG Codex, except ours flies. Problem is, compare any Power Armor Codex's vehicles to IG vehicles, and IG Vehicles look ridiculous.

Know why? Because our troops are guardsmen. We NEED those vehicles.

Just remember that the IG has a good codex.

for three reasons Orders squadrons and vendettas

If they didn't raise the vendettas price in the Death from the Skies "expansion" it seems pretty unlikely that they'll ever faq the price to be higher. It seems to me that a lack of readily available AA is much more the problem than any single flyer, not that this is the case for frogy, as he plays IG. As more 6th edition codexes come out, AA will become more commonplace and the vendetta will seem less OTT. Hell, the new Tau codex is rumored to have a flyer with a railgun.

 kronk wrote:

Yeah. I'm guessing 12 or so.

No, average 12-year-old doesn't write such horrible English. Hell, average Finnish 12-year-old writes way better English than that.

Ok am 28 have a hard ime with written stuff i only been playin a yr now 5ed was how i being the game just seems 6ed changed so much in the game for me like all my armor being useless and now haveing to spamd flyers to win because of lack off AAA in games and like i said if yoy table some one best way to win and easiest in my book as that all plyers do now in games . i really liked 5ed when armor ment something now its all flyer And infy up the butt

frogy27 wrote:
Ok am 28 have a hard ime with written stuff i only been playin a yr now 5ed was how i being the game just seems 6ed changed so much in the game for me like all my armor being useless and now haveing to spamd flyers to win because of lack off AAA in games and like i said if yoy table some one best way to win and easiest in my book as that all plyers do now in games . i really liked 5ed when armor ment something now its all flyer And infy up the butt

You need to take your time writing your posts if you have trouble writing. No one is going to go anywhere. Take a few extra minutes to correct all those words with red, squiggly lines underneath them.

Armor is not useless. Flyers are not mandatory (however having one or two doesn't hurt)

Tabling someone is hard to do if both players are good.

Again, armor is not useless.

A famous legal quote

"sir, I take issue with your sentence, beginning on page 1 and ending on page 53."

Heheh, love that one.

The two bits of applicable advice would seem to be learn to play (learning to write would be an immense help as well) and find a group to play with who don't suck as hard as your current one.

It could be argued that you could do the second before the first.

frogy27 wrote:
Also belive if gw dont make a model for unit type you can't use the just in dex to be cool. I so want storm troopers but you can't get them

Uh... no. If a unit is given stats in a Codex, but GW does not produce a model specific to that unit, you can take similar models and convert them to match what that unit carries. If you want Stormtroopers, take some Cadian Guardsmen and put hellguns in their hands (or plasma guns or bolters or whatever it is the Codex states the unit carries). Don't like the character model for a given IC? Choose another Citadel miniature (or one from an entirely different line) and, as long as it's roughly the same size with generally the same guns/knives/grenades/whatever, then you're pretty well good to go. "Counts As" is kinda the name of the game in this situation.

I will never make my own models i will not wreck a model to build hydra and our any model so you limited to whatit you can field from gw very limited. as to what they give you like. all the artillery the y say you can use but don't give you that many models. so what they in codex to look cool.

Then, quite frankly, you're an idiot and in the wrong hobby. This is a game designed around building your own models to fit one's personal desire for a custom army look, building variants of vehicles presented in Codices, White Dwarf, IA Volumes, whatever's bearing the "40K Approved" stamp, or converting models to present a cool-looking army on the table to represent custom Chapters, historical armies, or for whatever-the-hell reason. Back in the day... and I'm guessing a decade, at least, before you were born... we used to use the little plastic bubbles from gumball machines mounted on spare Walker leg sprues because none of us could get Killa Kans for our Ork hordes, and just glued random bits of sprue, spare weapons, heads, whatever on them to make them "Orky". The added benefit of the bubble was, if the unit was destroyed, you could pop it in half and leave it in a pile on the table. My brother even glued a crazy little grot mini to the inside base cap of the bubble of a few. Then we got older, got jobs, and our local store got better inventory and we could buy the real thing.

This hobby, and this game, gives you as much out of it as you're willing to put into it. If you're just throwing a list together and hoping it somehow wins against any and all foes you come up against, you're going to be in a world of hurt when you encounter an army that is particularly strong against foot-Guard or Mech-Guard. If you're fielding a horde of infantry, and run into an entirely ground-based army that is heavy on the Flamers, or any Large Blast Template weapons... not a single Flyer amongst them... you're gonna get spanked. If you bring a Tank-and-Truck army against an army fielding large number of Lascannons and anti-armor infantry (melta-vets, for example)... you're gonna get spanked. If your local group is all about the Flyers, then you need to adjust your army build to take this into account. This isn't really list-tailoring, as you're not building a list specifically to counter one single army build, but you are adjusting your tactics and your playstyle to better-match the styles of the other armies you're likely to face. As Guard, you've got one of the most versatile...heck, probably *the* most versatile... armies one can field. And if all you are playing is KP games? Then you need to adjust your tactics to maximize your KP-gains and minimize your opponent's KP-gains. This seems to include killing their flyers.

Now, now, now. We all had to start some where. It could be the poor lad has a very bad case of dyslexia. I know some poor soul that is as bight as a 1000 watt light bulb but can only read and write with the effectiveness of a 10 year old. I my self am dyslexic (prefect reading and good penmanship, but I struggle with spelling,) I'd be lost with out F7 or right click

frogy27 wrote:
As a csm and new ig player. i really don't care@for planes ever one brings 3to6 some times more planes to a game. as a ground pounder and mech head i find this rather just blah. its so unwise to use armor now as with all the flying tanks that even care troops. as they will just lay wast to ur armor and drop a squad of guys off to finsh the job of killing. only way around this is to take defense of works with quad guns and hide be hind them and hope for the best.
Side note my group don't play objective based games always last man standing wins type of games our kill points. ALSO I WILL NEVER BUY A FLYER marines flyer look ugly like a flying rhino. Ig flyer i feel same way. i run mech style marines and tank and foot heavy ig.

ok rant over


men of the 506 foot back to ur bunkers and quad gund

You have three real options here: Find a new group to play with, push the group to bring objectives back to the game or buy your own flyers and join in the meta. Those objectives are what make the ground pounders necessary. Just like in the real world you can't claim territory with a bunch of things flying around in the sky dropping bombs. Only boots on the ground can do that. If you can't get objectives back into the game or find a new group then you are stuck with the meta and need to accept it and play with it. I am lucky in that I am the big spender in my group so no one else in the group even has a flyer, so they almost never appear. Since no one else plays CSMs or DAs either I don't use the flyers I have (1 hell blade and 1 heldrake) because I don't see the point in forcing them to buy the defense line with quad gun BS crap either.

Skriker

Flyers killed 40k, in the Black library, with the AP3 candlestick!

Meaning Canoness Scarlet and Commissar Mustard are innocent.

frogy27 wrote:
Also belive if gw dont make a model for unit type you can't use the just in dex to be cool. I so want storm troopers but you can't get them

Ummm...where did you get this from? If the model isn't officially made you are *encouraged* to make/convert your own and use it. As for storm troopers go to GW's online store and look in the Elite section for Imperial Guard. There you will see two options: Stormtroopers and Kasirkin, which are just specially named Cadian stormtroopers. Both readily available and purchasable every day. There is even a full selection of special weapon options available to each kind as well.

Stormtroopers are an important elite choice for an IG army and have been available in different miniature forms practically since 2nd edition of the game.

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ribon Fox wrote:
The IG have the best AAA platforms in the game and you are getting tabled by air power?
Just because a kit doesn't exist doesn't mean you can't use it, hell even if a kit of it does exist you don't have to use it.

battle sentinel was built). The kit is was cheap and with a bit of plascard, some bits from the bitz boxz you have a very cool looking unit (I always tell folks that they are Hydras and the nod after going "COOL!").
The second two images are of my Hydra called "Lead Slinger" built to look like what is in the codex. Its only used in 1000pts games where the points matter.
Adapt or die, tiss the way of life and war.

Very nice job on the Hydra conversion RF.

Skriker