Ok, this post may end up being more of a rant, but:
One thing that annoys me to no end is reading posts by people who obviously do not own a rulebook. In the same vein, I have encountered people who have downloaded an incorrect (read: old) version of their codex and are mystified by the advice that they are given. I understand it's an expensive hobby, but I feel that a baseline for playing should be to buy your own codex and at least have access to a rulebook (3 friends sharing one I can understand).

Has this been an issue for anyone else? Also, how would you approach someone who doesn't follow this principle if you encountered them in a game?

I admit this annoys me but im a bit of a hypocrit early on in the game i dint buy a codex or rulebook but now i always have a codex imo you dont need a rulebook IF you only play at say 1 club and they have a copy

"It's an expensive hobby" is not an excuse not to own a copy of your own codex at the very least.

The codex is part of the must-have initial outlay, like Tac Squads if you play Marines. If your codex isn't available because you play Sisters, then you might be forgiven for posting basic rule questions about them.

I had a few rule based questions myself, but my annoyance is when people dont give a tiny bit more help than just "google it" type of answer.

Well enough you are not allowed to tell the rules and cope&paste them in here, but at least tell the page number and maybe where on the page it is at times.

And if its in a FAQ, why not help the poor fellow where it is, you can say "its on their home page" instead of linking it.

Tho, i agree that people have to get their rulebooks and such, but i am more annoyed of the "helpful" people at times, those who try to be "helpful" and give only a minimum of help and is more annoying than helpful leaving answers such as "you can find it in the BRB" or "its in the FAQ"....no gak?

NEVER!!!

I like owning ALL the books. Which is as much money as a downpayment on a house.

PDFs are the the only way I'll ever obtain my rulebooks.

I print them out. Make photocopies, then cut up the photocopies to lay them out far better than GW (I'm a graphic designer).

Slap them all in a binder for easier reading and call it a day.

I'm not saying everyone should do this but it's the only way I can.

I pay for all the books I own - some are second hand, some new - but I have all edition of 40K and most Codexes for all editions- although sadly not the two most recent ones as I feel they are a rip off for what you get. If I see them cheap on ebay I will pick them up then.

Buy the books for the armies you play, pretty simple.

I don't mind using PDFs, or folks who use PDFs. I've even had folks who just jotted down the information they needed and made their own little codex.

However, I do have a...let's call him a 'Friend'...who outright refused to purchase his new Chaos Demons book because of how expensive it was. He insists on using the old rules entirely because he had the pdf and it was easy to obtain. THAT was frustrating...ESPECIALLY since the new demons were so much better.

So...I'm okay with pdfs. But only if they actually take the iniative to make sure they have the most up to date rules as possible. For good or for ill.

My oppinion is that if some one is asking about s rule give them the answer no harm no foul there. But if it is blateny obvious that some one doesent have their codex for their army and they say "i have this this and that builud me a list dakka" thats where i draw the line. I get annoyed when i see the same person has posted the same question four times in less than an hour saying what i said above.

 DeffDred wrote:
NEVER!!!

I like owning ALL the books. Which is as much money as a downpayment on a house.

No it's not. It'd be like £200...for a full set of high quality rulebooks. I don't know how much rulesets for other companies cost but I'd bet it's comparable.

Having said that I don't actually own any codexes. I don't have the time/money at the moment. Hopefully I a few weeks I simply won't have the time

They're like pokimons or yu-gi-o or VDs. Gotta collect em all!

 kronk wrote:
They're like pokimons or yu-gi-o or VDs. Gotta collect em all!

Dang that's a lotta reading!
Wonder if I could borrow them for a couple of months

 BryllCream wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:
NEVER!!!

I like owning ALL the books. Which is as much money as a downpayment on a house.

No it's not. It'd be like £200...for a full set of high quality rulebooks. I don't know how much rulesets for other companies cost but I'd bet it's comparable.

Having said that I don't actually own any codexes. I don't have the time/money at the moment. Hopefully I a few weeks I simply won't have the time

All the books including all the FW Imperial Armour books and expansions (Apoc, Cities of Death, etc.)? That's when you know you have all the books, and the Emprah will come down from the sky and grant you the perfect rule-set

Not going to pay more than 30€ for a 100 page book, sorry.

 washout77 wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:
NEVER!!!

I like owning ALL the books. Which is as much money as a downpayment on a house.

No it's not. It'd be like £200...for a full set of high quality rulebooks. I don't know how much rulesets for other companies cost but I'd bet it's comparable.

Having said that I don't actually own any codexes. I don't have the time/money at the moment. Hopefully I a few weeks I simply won't have the time

All the books including all the FW Imperial Armour books and expansions (Apoc, Cities of Death, etc.)? That's when you know you have all the books, and the Emprah will come down from the sky and grant you the perfect rule-set

Or you'll collect for five or so years, only to find out GW's replaced them all with an even poorer set of rules that you have to buy again.
And then again...
And again...
Until they die / you run out of money

I download a PDF of a Codex to see if the army will do the kind of things I want; if I want to use it, read the fluff OR genuinely like the book, I will buy the codex.

I have a codex for everything but; Nids, GK, WitchHunters (lol), Space Wolves and Black Templar.

Rest assured; if I ever pursue the army, I will be buying the 'dex. Can't beat having the book in your hands.

I'd love to buy the 5th edition Sisters of Battle codex.

Sadly, it is not for sale.

Thats is a fair point and purely GW's fault - I would have no problem with people using whatever method in that case.

If they can't be bothered to have a army list in print for a current army.................

Nah you don't want to buy codex then fine, and glad to help. Those are such an obvious rippoff that I don't feel the need to tell people buy it, don't pirate it or whatever. Many people I know don't buy the books at all, ussualy after spending a last dime on models to be able to play a 1500 point game.

i don't even play the game, but i've bought pretty much every book GW has published for the last 25 years...
i love the stories, images, and painted minis...
i want the artists who create worlds i enjoy to stay employed, so i do my little bit...

this is why i don't pirate anything...
not because i think it's wrong (personally, i don't judge what someone else chooses to do), but because it's my way of showing my appreciation for the artists...

cheers
jah

 DeffDred wrote:
NEVER!!!

I like owning ALL the books. Which is as much money as a downpayment on a house.

PDFs are the the only way I'll ever obtain my rulebooks.

I print them out. Make photocopies, then cut up the photocopies to lay them out far better than GW (I'm a graphic designer).

Slap them all in a binder for easier reading and call it a day.

I'm not saying everyone should do this but it's the only way I can.

Are you saying that you torrent these PDFs or otherwise obtain them illegally?

If so, you are a thief. Plain and simple. It's not the "only way you can". Sorry. Not buying. You can tell yourself that all you want if it makes you feel better about being a thief, though.

Whatever. I am not judging you. But it galls me when people on this forum try to justify criminal activity with the flimsiest of excuses. Just come right out and say you are a thief.

Oh no he downloaded the PDF. Someone call Interpol FBI and cops now.

I'm a thief. ^^

No, not really. I actually own physical copies of almost everything I've downloaded.

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:


Are you saying that you torrent these PDFs or otherwise obtain them illegally?

If so, you are a thief. Plain and simple. It's not the "only way you can". Sorry. Not buying. You can tell yourself that all you want if it makes you feel better about being a thief, though.

Whatever. I am not judging you. But it galls me when people on this forum try to justify criminal activity with the flimsiest of excuses. Just come right out and say you are a thief.

The real thiefs are GW and their ridiculous prices for their books and products, I say its just getting even, good job on him for being smart and bypassing a system that is cheating players like you and me everyday.

Yea, i agree if youre going to try to save money on this hobby the BRB/atleast YOUR codex shouldnt be getting the budget cut.
I own my own brb/ork codex/tau codex, but i have pdfs for the rest because i dont play them its just so i can learn the race a bit better w/o stealing someone else's book lol.
You can tell my ork codex has some age on it. Its all sun-bleached and frilled while my Tau is brand spankin' new (no i didnt buy it either someone gave it to me when i mentioned i was gonna get some tau for my orks to ally up with)

PDFs only urk me when people use their tiny android phone to read it on. For statlines, its easy to read, but for bigger rule descriptions ... ugh...

Print the pdfs, everyone wins

Let's not forget about the FAQ though, people need to carry those around as well. They are more important than the BRB because you will always have a BRB where you play, but chances are you don'T have the FAQ handy.

 BryllCream wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:
NEVER!!!

I like owning ALL the books. Which is as much money as a downpayment on a house.

No it's not. It'd be like £200...for a full set of high quality rulebooks. I don't know how much rulesets for other companies cost but I'd bet it's comparable.

Having said that I don't actually own any codexes. I don't have the time/money at the moment. Hopefully I a few weeks I simply won't have the time

Yeah but I have every single codex, White Dwarf article, Imperial Armour, FFG, Black Library (art related only) and rulebook from every edition.

That would all cost a pretty penny.

Also got all the Warmahordes rules too.

GW aren't stealing anything. GW are setting their prices at the top of what the market is willing to support.

You're the fools who are keeping them there.

I usually try to carry the FAQ for my races, BRB FAQs people tend to memorize pretty quick (least i do anyway) and most of it doesnt even affect my army to begin with (exception: the new Out of Range "FAQ" that dropped a month or so ago).
Hell, as Tau you almost just need the FAQ right now. Almost the entire codex is FAQed lol.

Tired of people saying the hobby is too expensive. It's not an excuse. So what is next then? Stealing minis then? They are way more over costed than the codicies.

While GW is expensive, it's not an excuse to say it's ok to steal.

Davor wrote:
Tired of people saying the hobby is too expensive. It's not an excuse. So what is next then? Stealing minis then? They are way more over costed than the codicies.

While GW is expensive, it's not an excuse to say it's ok to steal.

So if I want to try an army to proxy against my brother to see if I like them (take them as allies, then buy the codex) or get better at playing them, I am supposed to pop 50 bucks first for one game?

 Ozomoto wrote:

Davor wrote:
Tired of people saying the hobby is too expensive. It's not an excuse. So what is next then? Stealing minis then? They are way more over costed than the codicies.

While GW is expensive, it's not an excuse to say it's ok to steal.

So if I want to try an army to proxy against my brother to see if I like them (take them as allies, then buy the codex) or get better at playing them, I am supposed to pop 50 bucks first for one game?

Or borrow the codex from someone else.

Davor wrote:
Tired of people saying the hobby is too expensive. It's not an excuse. So what is next then? Stealing minis then? They are way more over costed than the codicies.

While GW is expensive, it's not an excuse to say it's ok to steal.

Once 3d printers are more affordable to the common man... yes. You will see alot of "stolen" minis.

 TheCaptain wrote:
So if I want to try an army to proxy against my brother to see if I like them (take them as allies, then buy the codex) or get better at playing them, I am supposed to pop 50 bucks first for one game?

Or borrow the codex from someone else.

Or, walk into a shop and ask if you can have a flick through their copy, perhaps even run a small game while you're there. I can imagine most owners being ok with this if it's not too busy, as they may well be able to sell a Codex and models out of it.

I understand it's an unfortunate situation to be in where it looks like you have to "buy before you try", but look at it from a business point of view. Let's say you walk into an unnamed fast food McRestaurant and ask for some free fries to try out before you purchase a meal. Would you expect to get those fries?
In what way could Codex rules be made available to you at home, where they couldn't be abused into you having the rules permanently for free?

Back to the original topic, regarding rules queries and the like here... there are circumstances where it's perfectly understandable. Say you had a game against a Codex you don't own and want to make sure you weren't cheated - that's fair enough. It's also perfectly fine to ask for help on a rule you've read, but don't fully comprehend.
Then there are cases where it's clear the person hasn't actually read the rule or - *gasp* - even have the book. There's no harm in asking in general, BUT here on Dakka we have rules to stop the site from being targeted by a lawsuit so we need to abide by them. If the poster can't take the time to check forum rules or ignores them anyway, then screw 'em.

I do try to put page numbers and so on down where I have it to hand, but (and I know I'm not the only one here) sometimes I post from work so I don't have access to the books. So it's not always possible to refer the person asking the question to the right place.

If those fries cost me 17+ dollars, I probably wouldn't want to buy them anyway.

They'd have to be pretty damn good fries.

[Obligatory comment about finely crafted fries with bites already taken out of them when they arrive]

Furyou Miko wrote:I'm a thief. ^^

No, not really. I actually own physical copies of almost everything I've downloaded.

I don't see anything wrong with that, really. I do the same. A little "try before you buy" within reason isn't a big deal to me, either. But I always make sure I pay for the products I like and use.

gmaleron wrote:
The real thiefs are GW and their ridiculous prices for their books and products, I say its just getting even, good job on him for being smart and bypassing a system that is cheating players like you and me everyday.

Are you 16 years old? I hope so. I hope you grow out of this point of view or I see a career in petty thievery and welfare fraud for you. No one OWES you inexpensive plastic toy soldiers. No one owes you anything at all. The sooner you figure that out, the more prosperous you will be.

DeffDred wrote:
Yeah but I have every single codex, White Dwarf article, Imperial Armour, FFG, Black Library (art related only) and rulebook from every edition.

That would all cost a pretty penny.

Also got all the Warmahordes rules too.

I'm frankly shocked that you seem so proud of your theft. Would you brag about walking into a video game store and lifting $1,000 worth of games? My guess is you would be rather ashamed. I hope so, anyway.

Davor wrote:Tired of people saying the hobby is too expensive. It's not an excuse. So what is next then? Stealing minis then? They are way more over costed than the codicies.

While GW is expensive, it's not an excuse to say it's ok to steal.

Agreed. Especially with a luxury product like this. Can't afford it? Work harder and make more money, then. Or don't play. No right to steal these products.

 kronk wrote:
They're like pokimons or yu-gi-o or VDs. Gotta collect em all!

Well said good sir... though id prefer the Digi codices for the armies i dont play

 jah-joshua wrote:
i don't even play the game, but i've bought pretty much every book GW has published for the last 25 years...
i love the stories, images, and painted minis...
i want the artists who create worlds i enjoy to stay employed, so i do my little bit...

this is why i don't pirate anything...
not because i think it's wrong (personally, i don't judge what someone else chooses to do), but because it's my way of showing my appreciation for the artists...

cheers
jah

This is similar to my story of how i became a wargamer/collector. though offically started in 1997 (first gw "citadel kit"), and worked my way backward and forwards. 40k- 2nd-6th/fantasy 1st-now. though to be honest i will not be buying all the codex's for 6th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Orkimedes1000 wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:
i don't even play the game, but i've bought pretty much every book GW has published for the last 25 years...
i love the stories, images, and painted minis...
i want the artists who create worlds i enjoy to stay employed, so i do my little bit...

this is why i don't pirate anything...
not because i think it's wrong (personally, i don't judge what someone else chooses to do), but because it's my way of showing my appreciation for the artists...

cheers
jah

This is similar to my story of how i became a wargamer/collector. though offically started in 1997 (first gw "citadel kit"), and worked my way backward and forwards. 40k- 2nd-6th/fantasy 1st-now. though to be honest i will not be buying all the codex's for 6th.

to clarify first citadel kit i bought. which was 2nd edition 40k boxed game and warhammer fantasy 3rd edition- fantasy was from a friend. i wasn't too shocked by having to buy new rulebooks and armybooks or codice's. it only became a downer when have to rinse repeat every several years for whatever reasons/reasoning you can apply.

Downloading codieces for an army you don't play is not the same caliber of bad as downloading ones for the armies you play. As far as I understand it the ridiculous price is because the codex gives you the right to actualy use the rules and play the army. The books are insanely priced if you look at them as just something to read, pirating them is not ok just because of that ofc but I find buying your main codieces and downloading the rest a healthy middleground.

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:

gmaleron wrote:
The real thiefs are GW and their ridiculous prices for their books and products, I say its just getting even, good job on him for being smart and bypassing a system that is cheating players like you and me everyday.

Are you 16 years old? I hope so. I hope you grow out of this point of view or I see a career in petty thievery and welfare fraud for you. No one OWES you inexpensive plastic toy soldiers. No one owes you anything at all. The sooner you figure that out, the more prosperous you will be.

If you really want to throw such arguments around, I find your black and white consumer ethics more 16 year old esque than his statement tbh.

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:

DeffDred wrote:
Yeah but I have every single codex, White Dwarf article, Imperial Armour, FFG, Black Library (art related only) and rulebook from every edition.

That would all cost a pretty penny.

Also got all the Warmahordes rules too.

I'm frankly shocked that you seem so proud of your theft. Would you brag about walking into a video game store and lifting $1,000 worth of games? My guess is you would be rather ashamed. I hope so, anyway.

More comparable would be pirating 1000$ worth of games, which I for example did for sure. Nothing to brag about but also nothing to beat myself over about. I pay for the ones I finish or dig a lot, quite often I buy a game at full price despite the fact I will not be playing it for next half a year just to support the developer (Paradox, Relic, Creative Assembly, Eagle Dynamics, Bohemia Interactive etc). Same time I see nothing wrong in pirating when you have limited funds and wouldn't buy the title anyway.

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:

Davor wrote:Tired of people saying the hobby is too expensive. It's not an excuse. So what is next then? Stealing minis then? They are way more over costed than the codicies.

While GW is expensive, it's not an excuse to say it's ok to steal.

Agreed. Especially with a luxury product like this. Can't afford it? Work harder and make more money, then. Or don't play. No right to steal these products.

So stealing minis is stealing now as well? Get a life.

 gmaleron wrote:

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:


Are you saying that you torrent these PDFs or otherwise obtain them illegally?

If so, you are a thief. Plain and simple. It's not the "only way you can". Sorry. Not buying. You can tell yourself that all you want if it makes you feel better about being a thief, though.

Whatever. I am not judging you. But it galls me when people on this forum try to justify criminal activity with the flimsiest of excuses. Just come right out and say you are a thief.

The real thiefs are GW and their ridiculous prices for their books and products, I say its just getting even, good job on him for being smart and bypassing a system that is cheating players like you and me everyday.

So GW forced you to play?

Entitlement complex for the loss there.

LOL at the rationalizations for stealing in some these posts. Clearly some people in this thread fail at philosophy and ethics but succeed with moral ambiguity.

They are your future government leaders.

Rustgob wrote:
I download a PDF of a Codex to see if the army will do the kind of things I want; if I want to use it, read the fluff OR genuinely like the book, I will buy the codex.

I have a codex for everything but; Nids, GK, WitchHunters (lol), Space Wolves and Black Templar.

Rest assured; if I ever pursue the army, I will be buying the 'dex. Can't beat having the book in your hands.

I'm the same way. I have a .pdf of the BRB, but will have a copy of the mini one to take with me. Even with the codex and applicable FAQ's, there are still questions, but I suppose that's different than the OP's question. I guess I'd just try to answer them as simply as I can and politely suggest they get a codex and read the FAQ's, then come back with questions. I see so much condescension and at times even douche-ish responses. I don't understand it. Thankfully the respectful, helpful answers and responses are FAR more common. Still, I understand the annoyance of someone asking to be told the rules because they just don't care to read, rather than for clarification. I also agree that cost isn't an excuse. The things cost what they cost, just because it's not especially inexpensive doesn't mean it's a ripoff either. We all know what we're getting into, or figure it out at some point, when we start this hobby. That's the way it is. Besides, what fun is it to play if you have to stop to find someone that knows the rules for you?

There is t much excuse yes. I know it's taboo to say, but the rule books and codecs are all just about online these days on any torrent/download site. And no, I'm not saying I upload or distribute such things. However the price are so bad that I can you dear stand why someone good.

Though I guess a GW store wouldn't like you using such things. The good news is the stores are phasing out gaming. This is great news!

Granted, I'm no vet, and maybe my local GW is the exception, but they encourage, rather enthusiastically, people to come in and play. Even before I had my codex and BRB. They've also gotten to know the players that are vets, and do nothing to favor noobs over them. I can't imagine them phasing out allowing people to use their product like that. Especially with the advertising and up-selling opportunities. Sounds like more paranoia to be honest.

 BryllCream wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:
NEVER!!!

I like owning ALL the books. Which is as much money as a downpayment on a house.

No it's not. It'd be like £200...for a full set of high quality rulebooks. I don't know how much rulesets for other companies cost but I'd bet it's comparable.

Having said that I don't actually own any codexes. I don't have the time/money at the moment. Hopefully I a few weeks I simply won't have the time

Don't even bother with that. You'll be collecting the last book and then you'll need the newer edition of the first one you collected. Maybe in 5-7 years time. Then, if you by chance get to buy rulesets and army/campaign books from other companies, you'll find that there are worse ones in terms of production values, while certainly there are better ones, but that (almost) all those are better in terms of price/quality relationship. You will find then that GW aren't really high quality rulebooks, but just high production values works. As rulebooks, you'll see that GW ones are in fact lousy bad ones, specially if you take into account it's been 6 (six!) editions of 40K and there are usually still lots of things to fix and all that. You'll see that it sums up to well past 200 pounds for mediocre rules and army books which will be quickly FAQed and then quickly outdated. Compare it with Sam Mustafa's Maurice or Lasalle; Hail Caesar, Black Powder and its supplements by people as Jervis Johnson, Rick Priestley, John Stallard or the Pery twins; or Gruntz for example. Better rules, better prices, alike production values.

I once collected avery book I could both in 40K and Fantasy. The moment I realized I had to recommence the whole of it getting almost the same with a little twist, I drop it. No I won't be annoyed by anybody not buying that brb and any codex, or outright downloading one or all of them. I'll help 'em all I can, I'll let myself be helped in everything a kind playing mate can, and screw the ones who won't help their friends and mates. Next time they want to play naps or samurai or wars of the Roses because the minis look damn beautiful and the rules are damn well written and the battles look and play damn right, proper and splendid, they'll get what they deserved: much help, advise and information if they are worth it, or a funny look and the same as the others after they acknowledge that you get what you give and some generosity is good for your karma.

Pirating digital information = stealing is the thought 'round here, huh?

I'll have to keep this in mind if I ever intend to troll this forum.

I think that more blame rests in the hands of the person who uploaded the PDF of a codex to the 'net, rather than one who uses it.

As poor as I am, I can't afford to buy every codex just to -see- if I can -maybe- build the army I want to build. This is where PDFs are used.

However, if I intend to USE the codex to build armies and play the game, then I know what I need to buy later.

As I said earlier; Try before you buy, have PDFs of opponents codex and where possible; buy the books you LIKE.

Davor wrote:
Tired of people saying the hobby is too expensive. It's not an excuse. So what is next then? Stealing minis then? They are way more over costed than the codicies.

While GW is expensive, it's not an excuse to say it's ok to steal.

- Edited by insaniak. This is not appropriate on this forum -

 Ozomoto wrote:

Davor wrote:
Tired of people saying the hobby is too expensive. It's not an excuse. So what is next then? Stealing minis then? They are way more over costed than the codicies.

While GW is expensive, it's not an excuse to say it's ok to steal.

So if I want to try an army to proxy against my brother to see if I like them (take them as allies, then buy the codex) or get better at playing them, I am supposed to pop 50 bucks first for one game?

No nothing wrong with that, but people are not saying, they are trying it out, but out right crying about the price. So what about the people who "download" the BRB, the main rules, and don't buy it, but play 6th edition, with a downloaded pdf? Is that ok? They are not "trying it out" but actually not bothering to buy it, but still use it for the next 4 years, is that ok?

Someone mentioned, 3D printers. I didn't know they were coming so soon. Could be a reason why the price increases as of late. Get as much they can before people start using these 3D printers.

Trolling, nobody with an attitude like this could hold down a job that pays 48k a year.

Unless he's on benefits...

As for piracy, a lot of people do it, that doesn't make it right, it just makes it common.

Crowing about it on the Internet to strangers just isn't cool though.

Maybe he is one of those bankers us tax payers pay bonuses for F*&king up the world - it woud fit but earns too little.

It does sound all a little made up tbh

 DeffDred wrote:

Davor wrote:
Tired of people saying the hobby is too expensive. It's not an excuse. So what is next then? Stealing minis then? They are way more over costed than the codicies.

While GW is expensive, it's not an excuse to say it's ok to steal.

Once 3d printers are more affordable to the common man... yes. You will see alot of "stolen" minis.

I'd be surprised if GW is still alive by the time that happens. 3D printers that actually print good models (like the ones Blizzard offers based on your WoW character) are obscenely huge and expensive. I think they'd spend more money to steal than they would to just buy lol (though it would save on painting times....)

Well that escalated quickly...

I think the baseline is to own whatever you use in a game, so own your codex and at least have ready access to the BRB. I also agree that downloading PDFs that you don't own a hard copy of is stealing, and I wouldn't have a problem telling someone that if I met them.

On the subject of 3D printers though...
No. No. Absolutely not. Most 3D printers cannot and will not be able to reproduce the same level of detail on even basic plastic models. They are just too small. If a printer is capable of that level of detail, it's going to be very expensive. That, and it's also stealing.

Yea the cost required for that kind of a printer...i'd rather make molds of my bits and make them out of random material #4 i can get my hands on, paint them well, and not let anyone pick'm up so they dont notice a weight difference.

Pretty sure people do that, i just find it dishonest and too much work (and not much cheaper) lol

 azreal13 wrote:
Trolling, nobody with an attitude like this could hold down a job that pays 48k a year.

Unless he's on benefits...

As for piracy, a lot of people do it, that doesn't make it right, it just makes it common.

Crowing about it on the Internet to strangers just isn't cool though.

Im a self employed carpenter not a banker 48k a year is sod all nowa days especially in rip off britan.

 Sebbyp538 wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Trolling, nobody with an attitude like this could hold down a job that pays 48k a year.

Unless he's on benefits...

As for piracy, a lot of people do it, that doesn't make it right, it just makes it common.

Crowing about it on the Internet to strangers just isn't cool though.

Im a self employed carpenter not a banker 48k a year is sod all nowa days especially in rip off britan.

You're a self employed tradesman who boasts gleefully about how you mislead people to obtain goods by deception (which is an offence under law?)

I've tried to draft replies but they all sail too close to breaking rule 1, so I'll just leave it as..

Karma's a bitch.

 greyknight12 wrote:
Ok, this post may end up being more of a rant, but:
One thing that annoys me to no end is reading posts by people who obviously do not own a rulebook. In the same vein, I have encountered people who have downloaded an incorrect (read: old) version of their codex and are mystified by the advice that they are given. I understand it's an expensive hobby, but I feel that a baseline for playing should be to buy your own codex and at least have access to a rulebook (3 friends sharing one I can understand).

Has this been an issue for anyone else? Also, how would you approach someone who doesn't follow this principle if you encountered them in a game?

As having been that guy, I humbly apologize for it. I now know EXACTLY how annoying it can be.

Agree with the OP about getting your own codex and BRB (or sharing it in a group). I've never really felt inclined to get all the other codices but do have a couple... in digital copy. Yeah I'll admit its piracy and I'd prefer not to do it. But my 5th ed C:SM was 63NZD which was pushing it at the time and now the new hard backs are all $98 a pop. So thats put them way far out for me and a lot of friends in my group. It works out way cheaper to pay for shipping and get it from the US, which is what I'll do when either orks or marines are released again.

But I do think its unfair to say you cant use pdf's at all and if you can't afford the rulebook... dont play. I mean if they've already paid heaps for the models, then I would disagree with anyone I saw refusing to play them on the basis their codex isn't authentic. (and don't say the cost of the codex is inconsequential to the whole army...)

 rahxephon wrote:
Agree with the OP about getting your own codex and BRB (or sharing it in a group). I've never really felt inclined to get all the other codices but do have a couple... in digital copy. Yeah I'll admit its piracy and I'd prefer not to do it. But my 5th ed C:SM was 63NZD which was pushing it at the time and now the new hard backs are all $98 a pop. So thats put them way far out for me and a lot of friends in my group. It works out way cheaper to pay for shipping and get it from the US, which is what I'll do when either orks or marines are released again.

But I do think its unfair to say you cant use pdf's at all and if you can't afford the rulebook... dont play. I mean if they've already paid heaps for the models, then I would disagree with anyone I saw refusing to play them on the basis their codex isn't authentic. (and don't say the cost of the codex is inconsequential to the whole army...)

To be honest, I think that's more predatory business on GW's part. I've never bought a hardcover of similar size that costed that much. D&D books never cost quite that much.

 Sebbyp538 wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Trolling, nobody with an attitude like this could hold down a job that pays 48k a year.

Unless he's on benefits...

As for piracy, a lot of people do it, that doesn't make it right, it just makes it common.

Crowing about it on the Internet to strangers just isn't cool though.

Im a self employed carpenter not a banker 48k a year is sod all nowa days especially in rip off britan.

You have a point.
48k is meaningless over here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlbxRBfGAr0

Thieving torrent downloads, stealing models from the shops. no difference, the point is, i couldn't give a toss about GW in the same way they don't give a toss about us. i own £3000 of models and only payed £1000 for them. its natural for people to be this way, its in nature and its in human nature. have a look on the youtube link above. its wrong, i love it i don't care, and i have a huge cabinet full of models and codexs that make me warm inside.
if someone told me they had to pdf the codex i would give them a high five.

 Sebbyp538 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlbxRBfGAr0

Thieving torrent downloads, stealing models from the shops. no difference, the point is, i couldn't give a toss about GW in the same way they don't give a toss about us. i own £3000 of models and only payed £1000 for them. its natural for people to be this way, its in nature and its in human nature. have a look on the youtube link above. its wrong, i love it i don't care, and i have a huge cabinet full of models and codexs that make me warm inside.
if someone told me they had to pdf the codex i would give them a high five.

There's a huge difference between downloading PDF's and stealing models from shops.

 Sebbyp538 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlbxRBfGAr0

Thieving torrent downloads, stealing models from the shops. no difference, the point is, i couldn't give a toss about GW in the same way they don't give a toss about us. i own £3000 of models and only payed £1000 for them. its natural for people to be this way, its in nature and its in human nature. have a look on the youtube link above. its wrong, i love it i don't care, and i have a huge cabinet full of models and codexs that make me warm inside.
if someone told me they had to pdf the codex i would give them a high five.

I doubt you love it as much as you say.

After all; you obviously haven't worked to acquire 2/3s of your miniatures and obviously cannot be ranked on the same scale as someone who has.
It's one hell of an ethics quandry, but I'll go ahead and say it.

What kind of man-child makes 48k and still feels the need to steal plastics to pump their ego.

I think you probably feel a bit empty; but who am I to sort the internet egos from the real ones?

Rustgob wrote:

 Sebbyp538 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlbxRBfGAr0

Thieving torrent downloads, stealing models from the shops. no difference, the point is, i couldn't give a toss about GW in the same way they don't give a toss about us. i own £3000 of models and only payed £1000 for them. its natural for people to be this way, its in nature and its in human nature. have a look on the youtube link above. its wrong, i love it i don't care, and i have a huge cabinet full of models and codexs that make me warm inside.
if someone told me they had to pdf the codex i would give them a high five.

I doubt you love it as much as you say.

After all; you obviously haven't worked to acquire 2/3s of your miniatures and obviously cannot be ranked on the same scale as someone who has.
It's one hell of an ethics quandry, but I'll go ahead and say it.

What kind of man-child makes 48k and still feels the need to steal plastics to pump their ego.

I think you probably feel a bit empty; but who am I to sort the internet egos from the real ones?

ME! i feel the need to steal from GW as they are the biggest con artists in the wargaming industry. A helldrake costs £45 for two sprues.... Rip off!!! i see it more as a robin hood tactic than a pumping of my ego. i steal from the rich and give to the poor/me. i Do feel very empty inside as i still havent ventured into ripping off forgeworld yet. Also i own no Fantasy armies yet but hey time is on my side im still only 26 years young. and yes Rustjob i love it more than you know and i wasnt aware i could be ranked on such a theme.

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:
Just come right out and say you are a thief.

You clearly don't understand the differences between piracy and theft.

In fact, there's some recent research that music sales are unaffected by piracy. It was done by the European commission and you can find it here. It's an interesting read.

 Sebbyp538 wrote:

Rustgob wrote:

 Sebbyp538 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlbxRBfGAr0

Thieving torrent downloads, stealing models from the shops. no difference, the point is, i couldn't give a toss about GW in the same way they don't give a toss about us. i own £3000 of models and only payed £1000 for them. its natural for people to be this way, its in nature and its in human nature. have a look on the youtube link above. its wrong, i love it i don't care, and i have a huge cabinet full of models and codexs that make me warm inside.
if someone told me they had to pdf the codex i would give them a high five.

I doubt you love it as much as you say.

After all; you obviously haven't worked to acquire 2/3s of your miniatures and obviously cannot be ranked on the same scale as someone who has.
It's one hell of an ethics quandry, but I'll go ahead and say it.

What kind of man-child makes 48k and still feels the need to steal plastics to pump their ego.

I think you probably feel a bit empty; but who am I to sort the internet egos from the real ones?

ME! i feel the need to steal from GW as they are the biggest con artists in the wargaming industry. A helldrake costs £45 for two sprues.... Rip off!!! i see it more as a robin hood tactic than a pumping of my ego. i steal from the rich and give to the poor/me. i Do feel very empty inside as i still havent ventured into ripping off forgeworld yet. Also i own no Fantasy armies yet but hey time is on my side im still only 26 years young. and yes Rustjob i love it more than you know and i wasnt aware i could be ranked on such a theme.

You, poor?


Wot a larf. Try living on 14-15k a year. Then you get to call yourself poor.

Right now, you're stealing from the poor Minimum wage Retailers, who get to take the fall when things go missing and giving to the rich. The Poverty line for a parent looking after two children is approx £18k, so you're pretty damn well off with your 48k (which I suspect is not realistic anyhow.)

Your robin hood analogy is more full of holes than your swiss-cheese morality.

 Sebbyp538 wrote:

Rustgob wrote:

 Sebbyp538 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlbxRBfGAr0

Thieving torrent downloads, stealing models from the shops. no difference, the point is, i couldn't give a toss about GW in the same way they don't give a toss about us. i own £3000 of models and only payed £1000 for them. its natural for people to be this way, its in nature and its in human nature. have a look on the youtube link above. its wrong, i love it i don't care, and i have a huge cabinet full of models and codexs that make me warm inside.
if someone told me they had to pdf the codex i would give them a high five.

I doubt you love it as much as you say.

After all; you obviously haven't worked to acquire 2/3s of your miniatures and obviously cannot be ranked on the same scale as someone who has.
It's one hell of an ethics quandry, but I'll go ahead and say it.

What kind of man-child makes 48k and still feels the need to steal plastics to pump their ego.

I think you probably feel a bit empty; but who am I to sort the internet egos from the real ones?

ME! i feel the need to steal from GW as they are the biggest con artists in the wargaming industry. A helldrake costs £45 for two sprues.... Rip off!!! i see it more as a robin hood tactic than a pumping of my ego. i steal from the rich and give to the poor/me. i Do feel very empty inside as i still havent ventured into ripping off forgeworld yet. Also i own no Fantasy armies yet but hey time is on my side im still only 26 years young. and yes Rustjob i love it more than you know and i wasnt aware i could be ranked on such a theme.

Can you please leave?

Selym wrote:

 Sebbyp538 wrote:

Rustgob wrote:

 Sebbyp538 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlbxRBfGAr0

Thieving torrent downloads, stealing models from the shops. no difference, the point is, i couldn't give a toss about GW in the same way they don't give a toss about us. i own £3000 of models and only payed £1000 for them. its natural for people to be this way, its in nature and its in human nature. have a look on the youtube link above. its wrong, i love it i don't care, and i have a huge cabinet full of models and codexs that make me warm inside.
if someone told me they had to pdf the codex i would give them a high five.

I doubt you love it as much as you say.

After all; you obviously haven't worked to acquire 2/3s of your miniatures and obviously cannot be ranked on the same scale as someone who has.
It's one hell of an ethics quandry, but I'll go ahead and say it.

What kind of man-child makes 48k and still feels the need to steal plastics to pump their ego.

I think you probably feel a bit empty; but who am I to sort the internet egos from the real ones?

ME! i feel the need to steal from GW as they are the biggest con artists in the wargaming industry. A helldrake costs £45 for two sprues.... Rip off!!! i see it more as a robin hood tactic than a pumping of my ego. i steal from the rich and give to the poor/me. i Do feel very empty inside as i still havent ventured into ripping off forgeworld yet. Also i own no Fantasy armies yet but hey time is on my side im still only 26 years young. and yes Rustjob i love it more than you know and i wasnt aware i could be ranked on such a theme.

Can you please leave?

Hear, hear!

I honestly don't care about 'feeding trolls' or getting in the face of the guy either.

I think it's the duty of the whole community to push out the immoral. Make places better through example, no?

Shameless, physical thieves with nothing better to do have no business being part of any circle I include myself in.

 Griddlelol wrote:

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:
Just come right out and say you are a thief.

You clearly don't understand the differences between piracy and theft.

In fact, there's some recent research that music sales are unaffected by piracy. It was done by the European commission and you can find it here. It's an interesting read.

The guy has admitted to stealing models though, and he sees it as a "robin hood" like tactic. Taking from the rich and giving to the poor (in his case, he considers himself poor)

 washout77 wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:
Just come right out and say you are a thief.

You clearly don't understand the differences between piracy and theft.

In fact, there's some recent research that music sales are unaffected by piracy. It was done by the European commission and you can find it here. It's an interesting read.

The guy has admitted to stealing models though, and he sees it as a "robin hood" like tactic. Taking from the rich and giving to the poor (in his case, he considers himself poor)

Xenocidal Maniac's comment was directed to Deffdred I believe, not Sebbyp538/RobinHood.

I still need to buy a 6th edition rulebook. All of my armies have up to date codices but my tau. Once I have enough I'm buying the new codex.

That's really all perspective, isn't it?

I'd actually call it common sense. If I can get something for free rather than paying an exorbitant and overbloated fee...then damn straight i'll download a fething PDF. If they had kept the codexes at 30 bucks with the new hardcover they'd still be making a ridiculous amount of profit on the mark up and I would actually be willing to pay for it. 50 bucks? Unless you've lined all the pages in gold leaf and the paper stock is of exceptional quality (which it isn't, based off of the CSM codex I perused at the local store) then there is no reason for that sort of crap.

As long as you have the little rulebook and a pdf print out of your codex I would say that's fine.

Rustgob wrote:

 Sebbyp538 wrote:

Rustgob wrote:

 Sebbyp538 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlbxRBfGAr0

Thieving torrent downloads, stealing models from the shops. no difference, the point is, i couldn't give a toss about GW in the same way they don't give a toss about us. i own £3000 of models and only payed £1000 for them. its natural for people to be this way, its in nature and its in human nature. have a look on the youtube link above. its wrong, i love it i don't care, and i have a huge cabinet full of models and codexs that make me warm inside.
if someone told me they had to pdf the codex i would give them a high five.

I doubt you love it as much as you say.

After all; you obviously haven't worked to acquire 2/3s of your miniatures and obviously cannot be ranked on the same scale as someone who has.
It's one hell of an ethics quandry, but I'll go ahead and say it.

What kind of man-child makes 48k and still feels the need to steal plastics to pump their ego.

I think you probably feel a bit empty; but who am I to sort the internet egos from the real ones?

ME! i feel the need to steal from GW as they are the biggest con artists in the wargaming industry. A helldrake costs £45 for two sprues.... Rip off!!! i see it more as a robin hood tactic than a pumping of my ego. i steal from the rich and give to the poor/me. i Do feel very empty inside as i still havent ventured into ripping off forgeworld yet. Also i own no Fantasy armies yet but hey time is on my side im still only 26 years young. and yes Rustjob i love it more than you know and i wasnt aware i could be ranked on such a theme.

You, poor?


Wot a larf. Try living on 14-15k a year. Then you get to call yourself poor.

Right now, you're stealing from the poor Minimum wage Retailers, who get to take the fall when things go missing and giving to the rich. The Poverty line for a parent looking after two children is approx £18k, so you're pretty damn well off with your 48k (which I suspect is not realistic anyhow.)

Your robin hood analogy is more full of holes than your swiss-cheese morality.

Gotta agree with this. A pirated PDF is one thing. May not be fully moral, but it's not the same level of sheer clodiness (Yes I made that up) as stealing models from the local GW. There are retail-level staff who have nothing to do with the corporation other than the name running those stores, and when things go missing, it's on their heads. And I think we've heard before that GW is NOT forgiving with stores that don't produce the best numbers.

If you're stealing models from a FLGS, that's downright despicable. That's a person's personal business you're screwing around with, that he build completely on his own. That's entirely unforgivable.

 gpfunk wrote:
That's really all perspective, isn't it?

I'd actually call it common sense. If I can get something for free rather than paying an exorbitant and overbloated fee...then damn straight i'll download a fething PDF. If they had kept the codexes at 30 bucks with the new hardcover they'd still be making a ridiculous amount of profit on the mark up and I would actually be willing to pay for it. 50 bucks? Unless you've lined all the pages in gold leaf and the paper stock is of exceptional quality (which it isn't, based off of the CSM codex I perused at the local store) then there is no reason for that sort of crap.

As long as you have the little rulebook and a pdf print out of your codex I would say that's fine.

i may be a naysayer jerk here.. but no its not enough.... if your my good mate trying a new proxy army out thats all well... but tolerance only goes so far.... LRB ok fine it covers it but codex.. BABOW, want to play your army... i mena lets be honest... $50 bucks..... hell the damn thing is 83$ here in aus.. unless you deal with some people... sorry no excuse you want to field those discount cost models get a discount cost codex that aint off your PC... there is a limit people draw.. and even friendly the line exists... go to a tourney and be like "its legit" and see how far you get... but yeah even mates get sick of it.....

PDF to maybe browse.. to look about but want to field them all the time get the real book and baby RB.... its not hard not that expensive..

 gpfunk wrote:
That's really all perspective, isn't it?

I'd actually call it common sense. If I can get something for free rather than paying an exorbitant and overbloated fee...then damn straight i'll download a fething PDF. If they had kept the codexes at 30 bucks with the new hardcover they'd still be making a ridiculous amount of profit on the mark up and I would actually be willing to pay for it. 50 bucks? Unless you've lined all the pages in gold leaf and the paper stock is of exceptional quality (which it isn't, based off of the CSM codex I perused at the local store) then there is no reason for that sort of crap.

As long as you have the little rulebook and a pdf print out of your codex I would say that's fine.

I kinda agree with this in the end. While I prefer it in every possible way to have an actual copy of your codex (the little rule-book is okay since you payed for that at some point), if you have a print-out copy of your codex I will still play you. I won't ask you where you got it, if you don't go around telling people you pirated it and act like you are actually proud of it.

 washout77 wrote:

 gpfunk wrote:
That's really all perspective, isn't it?

I'd actually call it common sense. If I can get something for free rather than paying an exorbitant and overbloated fee...then damn straight i'll download a fething PDF. If they had kept the codexes at 30 bucks with the new hardcover they'd still be making a ridiculous amount of profit on the mark up and I would actually be willing to pay for it. 50 bucks? Unless you've lined all the pages in gold leaf and the paper stock is of exceptional quality (which it isn't, based off of the CSM codex I perused at the local store) then there is no reason for that sort of crap.

As long as you have the little rulebook and a pdf print out of your codex I would say that's fine.

I kinda agree with this in the end. While I prefer it in every possible way to have an actual copy of your codex (the little rule-book is okay since you payed for that at some point), if you have a print-out copy of your codex I will still play you. I won't ask you where you got it, if you don't go around telling people you pirated it and act like you are actually proud of it.

thing is first few games as you consider the army, oh yeah well, lets be honest who spends big with no idea?.. but once you know better? just go buy the real thing hey... fairs really fair...

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
and even friendly the line exists... go to a tourney and be like "its legit" and see how far you get... but yeah even mates get sick of it.....

No tournament organiser has complained about my printed Imperial Armour: Aeronautica pages...

 Griddlelol wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
and even friendly the line exists... go to a tourney and be like "its legit" and see how far you get... but yeah even mates get sick of it.....

No tournament organiser has complained about my printed Imperial Armour: Aeronautica pages...

no but i bet if you went in with a full print out of C:SM you might get asked questions... 1 or 2 pages maybe but the full dex.....

I really couldn't care less if my opponent has bought his codex, downloaded it as a PDF, or stolen it from a shop, I'll play him either way, so long as he's a nice opponent. It's not my business where my opponent got his/her codex, or even models, from. If they stole them, not my problem, it's their issue to deal with any moral or legal consequences.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:


no but i bet if you went in with a full print out of C:SM you might get asked questions... 1 or 2 pages maybe but the full dex.....

What's the difference?

 Griddlelol wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:


no but i bet if you went in with a full print out of C:SM you might get asked questions... 1 or 2 pages maybe but the full dex.....

What's the difference?

The difference is thus;

One or two pages is likely to be you carrying a photocopy reference of a few select pages from your codex.

On the flipside, why would you photocopy an entire codex, just bring the whole thing; Oh wait- you don't own the codex.


How much you bring essentially clues in those around you to how much you are (or are not) 'pirating' the rules.

Rustgob wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:


no but i bet if you went in with a full print out of C:SM you might get asked questions... 1 or 2 pages maybe but the full dex.....

What's the difference?

The difference is thus;

One or two pages is likely to be you carrying a photocopy reference of a few select pages from your codex.

On the flipside, why would you photocopy an entire codex, just bring the whole thing; Oh wait- you don't own the codex.


How much you bring essentially clues in those around you to how much you are (or are not) 'pirating' the rules.

Or because you don't want to ruin the codex by overusing it and bringing it everywhere. I know some people would rather use the PDF's and plug them into a binder for the rules while keeping the codex at home.

 The Shadow wrote:
I really couldn't care less if my opponent has bought his codex, downloaded it as a PDF, or stolen it from a shop, I'll play him either way, so long as he's a nice opponent. It's not my business where my opponent got his/her codex, or even models, from. If they stole them, not my problem, it's their issue to deal with any moral or legal consequences.

This. Seriously. People love to make a big deal out of everything, and stick their noses where they don't belong. If you don't want play someone, fine. It's not any player's place to judge another, or to demand justifications or explanation. If someone started badgering me about where I got my codex, I'd just say "It doesn't matter. Do you want to play or not?" Who do you think you are that someone should have to explain anything to you? This is a game, we're both gamers, that's it. Not the authorities, who I might add, couldn't care less where a gamer got their codex or how. Morals aside, there are far worse things to get that stressed out over.

 Badger_Bhoy wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
I really couldn't care less if my opponent has bought his codex, downloaded it as a PDF, or stolen it from a shop, I'll play him either way, so long as he's a nice opponent. It's not my business where my opponent got his/her codex, or even models, from. If they stole them, not my problem, it's their issue to deal with any moral or legal consequences.

This. Seriously. People love to make a big deal out of everything, and stick their noses where they don't belong. If you don't want play someone, fine. It's not any player's place to judge another, or to demand justifications or explanation. If someone started badgering me about where I got my codex, I'd just say "It doesn't matter. Do you want to play or not?" Who do you think you are that someone should have to explain anything to you? This is a game, we're both gamers, that's it. Not the authorities, who I might add, couldn't care less where a gamer got their codex or how. Morals aside, there are far worse things to get that stressed out over.

Y'know there is an unwritten rule that states that as any conversation on the internet gets longer, the chance of Hitler or Nazis being mentioned reaches 1.

So...

My first thought after reading the end of your post was, unfortunately:

"Like Nazis!"

...
...

...

...

Rustgob wrote:


The difference is thus;

One or two pages is likely to be you carrying a photocopy reference of a few select pages from your codex.

The difference is pretty much only in your mind. In actuality there is no difference, and breach of copy right is breach of copy right. Frankly, the idea that companies can ever prevent it is ludicrous, and they should learn to embrace it rather than fight a losing battle.
It's already been shown that legal streaming of music improves sales, and I'm sure there could be free rules for warhammer 40k, which would be conducive to more updates too. The money would be generated from models.

 Griddlelol wrote:

Rustgob wrote:


The difference is thus;

One or two pages is likely to be you carrying a photocopy reference of a few select pages from your codex.

The difference is pretty much only in your mind. In actuality there is no difference, and breach of copy right is breach of copy right. Frankly, the idea that companies can ever prevent it is ludicrous, and they should learn to embrace it rather than fight a losing battle.
It's already been shown that legal streaming of music improves sales, and I'm sure there could be free rules for warhammer 40k, which would be conducive to more updates too. The money would be generated from models.

While I wouldn't have problems with it, at least I wouldn't vocalize them (as long as the person doesn't go around bragging about it, but then bigger problems arise), and pirating things doesn't hurt the artist/creator I tend to point people towards buying a legal copy if only to support local business (I like my FLGS, so I buy all my stuff from them. Even if it's something I could pirate, I like to buy the book from those guys so they earn a bit of money)

But, in the grand scheme of things, this is a pretty stupid and futile argument to have. Pirates and thieves (as proved earlier not always the same thing) will continue to pirate and steal, and legal buyers will continue to legally buy no matter what people over the internet say

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Rustgob wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:


no but i bet if you went in with a full print out of C:SM you might get asked questions... 1 or 2 pages maybe but the full dex.....

What's the difference?

The difference is thus;

One or two pages is likely to be you carrying a photocopy reference of a few select pages from your codex.

On the flipside, why would you photocopy an entire codex, just bring the whole thing; Oh wait- you don't own the codex.


How much you bring essentially clues in those around you to how much you are (or are not) 'pirating' the rules.

Or because you don't want to ruin the codex by overusing it and bringing it everywhere. I know some people would rather use the PDF's and plug them into a binder for the rules while keeping the codex at home.

At the very least you'll have to fold the pages of the book's spine in order to scan. Tenuous excuse at best.

 Badger_Bhoy wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
I really couldn't care less if my opponent has bought his codex, downloaded it as a PDF, or stolen it from a shop, I'll play him either way, so long as he's a nice opponent. It's not my business where my opponent got his/her codex, or even models, from. If they stole them, not my problem, it's their issue to deal with any moral or legal consequences.

This. Seriously. People love to make a big deal out of everything, and stick their noses where they don't belong. If you don't want play someone, fine. It's not any player's place to judge another, or to demand justifications or explanation. If someone started badgering me about where I got my codex, I'd just say "It doesn't matter. Do you want to play or not?" Who do you think you are that someone should have to explain anything to you? This is a game, we're both gamers, that's it. Not the authorities, who I might add, couldn't care less where a gamer got their codex or how. Morals aside, there are far worse things to get that stressed out over.

It's all extrapolation though.

Pirated rules? Wouldn't worry me, I've got PDF files, I don't own the original of every album I have in digital. So I wouldn't be so hypocritical to have an issue with this.
Recast models? Not that different to pirated rules, IMHO, as models are expensive and I can understand the temptation. I certainly believe many people who buy recasts simply wouldn't buy the model at full retail, so one COULD argue that it doesn't hurt the company as they wouldn't have sold an original to that individual in any case.
Stealing models from a store? This is a whole leap forward requiring a mindset that allows for the brass balls to walk into a shop and take things or flat out deceive someone online. Anyone with the mindset required to outright steal from somebody is already statistically more likely be the sort of character I won't enjoy playing.

 TermiesInARaider wrote:

Rustgob wrote:

 Sebbyp538 wrote:

Rustgob wrote:

 Sebbyp538 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlbxRBfGAr0

Thieving torrent downloads, stealing models from the shops. no difference, the point is, i couldn't give a toss about GW in the same way they don't give a toss about us. i own £3000 of models and only payed £1000 for them. its natural for people to be this way, its in nature and its in human nature. have a look on the youtube link above. its wrong, i love it i don't care, and i have a huge cabinet full of models and codexs that make me warm inside.
if someone told me they had to pdf the codex i would give them a high five.

I doubt you love it as much as you say.

After all; you obviously haven't worked to acquire 2/3s of your miniatures and obviously cannot be ranked on the same scale as someone who has.
It's one hell of an ethics quandry, but I'll go ahead and say it.

What kind of man-child makes 48k and still feels the need to steal plastics to pump their ego.

I think you probably feel a bit empty; but who am I to sort the internet egos from the real ones?

ME! i feel the need to steal from GW as they are the biggest con artists in the wargaming industry. A helldrake costs £45 for two sprues.... Rip off!!! i see it more as a robin hood tactic than a pumping of my ego. i steal from the rich and give to the poor/me. i Do feel very empty inside as i still havent ventured into ripping off forgeworld yet. Also i own no Fantasy armies yet but hey time is on my side im still only 26 years young. and yes Rustjob i love it more than you know and i wasnt aware i could be ranked on such a theme.

You, poor?


Wot a larf. Try living on 14-15k a year. Then you get to call yourself poor.

Right now, you're stealing from the poor Minimum wage Retailers, who get to take the fall when things go missing and giving to the rich. The Poverty line for a parent looking after two children is approx £18k, so you're pretty damn well off with your 48k (which I suspect is not realistic anyhow.)

Your robin hood analogy is more full of holes than your swiss-cheese morality.

Gotta agree with this. A pirated PDF is one thing. May not be fully moral, but it's not the same level of sheer clodiness (Yes I made that up) as stealing models from the local GW. There are retail-level staff who have nothing to do with the corporation other than the name running those stores, and when things go missing, it's on their heads. And I think we've heard before that GW is NOT forgiving with stores that don't produce the best numbers.

If you're stealing models from a FLGS, that's downright despicable. That's a person's personal business you're screwing around with, that he build completely on his own. That's entirely unforgivable.

piracy is a crime shop lifting is a crime. yes they are different, as 1 person sits on his ass on a computer and does it in the safety of there own home and the other gets up goes out to the shop to sort his business.

if they were 20% cheaper then i may consider being an honest moral citizen and just buy the stuff i need, but when i know i can make an order on-line of say £300. say it didnt turn up get another lot sent and say that didnt turn up again and get another lot sent, i just get an amazing feeling from "breaking the system" i couldnt give a toss about GW do you think the directors arent going to be able to eat if i stole even £20000 worth? the facts are this: 1.worry about your own moral beliefs and not others, its seems like your jealous of my annual income and my robin hood / mad max view on the world. and 2. only the dark gods of chaos can judge me.

Get over it.

To quite a few above, i needlessly need to point out the tight-ass natuee off flat out pirating your preferred armies rules, but to profess how that's a fully legit way to act.... i mean honestly.... ... i don't think that anyone here that spends a thousand bucks on the army wants to cheapen it with a downloaded PDF of the codex... but thats fine.... at the end of the day those that pretend otherwise might as well buy from recasters and keep going down that path, infact got to you local BigW or equivilant and get you 50 men for 5$ cos you clearly dont care...

and grid really companies should "embrace the breach of their copyright" .. is that a serious comment? why the hell would anyone print ANYTHING if not to get a cut of it? surelyyourtrolling with that comment right? RIGHT?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sebbyp538 wrote:

 TermiesInARaider wrote:

Rustgob wrote:

 Sebbyp538 wrote:

Rustgob wrote:

 Sebbyp538 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlbxRBfGAr0

Thieving torrent downloads, stealing models from the shops. no difference, the point is, i couldn't give a toss about GW in the same way they don't give a toss about us. i own £3000 of models and only payed £1000 for them. its natural for people to be this way, its in nature and its in human nature. have a look on the youtube link above. its wrong, i love it i don't care, and i have a huge cabinet full of models and codexs that make me warm inside.
if someone told me they had to pdf the codex i would give them a high five.

I doubt you love it as much as you say.

After all; you obviously haven't worked to acquire 2/3s of your miniatures and obviously cannot be ranked on the same scale as someone who has.
It's one hell of an ethics quandry, but I'll go ahead and say it.

What kind of man-child makes 48k and still feels the need to steal plastics to pump their ego.

I think you probably feel a bit empty; but who am I to sort the internet egos from the real ones?

ME! i feel the need to steal from GW as they are the biggest con artists in the wargaming industry. A helldrake costs £45 for two sprues.... Rip off!!! i see it more as a robin hood tactic than a pumping of my ego. i steal from the rich and give to the poor/me. i Do feel very empty inside as i still havent ventured into ripping off forgeworld yet. Also i own no Fantasy armies yet but hey time is on my side im still only 26 years young. and yes Rustjob i love it more than you know and i wasnt aware i could be ranked on such a theme.

You, poor?


Wot a larf. Try living on 14-15k a year. Then you get to call yourself poor.

Right now, you're stealing from the poor Minimum wage Retailers, who get to take the fall when things go missing and giving to the rich. The Poverty line for a parent looking after two children is approx £18k, so you're pretty damn well off with your 48k (which I suspect is not realistic anyhow.)

Your robin hood analogy is more full of holes than your swiss-cheese morality.

Gotta agree with this. A pirated PDF is one thing. May not be fully moral, but it's not the same level of sheer clodiness (Yes I made that up) as stealing models from the local GW. There are retail-level staff who have nothing to do with the corporation other than the name running those stores, and when things go missing, it's on their heads. And I think we've heard before that GW is NOT forgiving with stores that don't produce the best numbers.

If you're stealing models from a FLGS, that's downright despicable. That's a person's personal business you're screwing around with, that he build completely on his own. That's entirely unforgivable.

piracy is a crime shop lifting is a crime. yes they are different, as 1 person sits on his ass on a computer and does it in the safety of there own home and the other gets up goes out to the shop to sort his business.

if they were 20% cheaper then i may consider being an honest moral citizen and just buy the stuff i need, but when i know i can make an order on-line of say £300. say it didnt turn up get another lot sent and say that didnt turn up again and get another lot sent, i just get an amazing feeling from "breaking the system" i couldnt give a toss about GW do you think the directors arent going to be able to eat if i stole even £20000 worth? the facts are this: 1.worry about your own moral beliefs and not others, its seems like your jealous of my annual income and my robin hood / mad max view on the world. and 2. only the dark gods of chaos can judge me.

Get over it.

so stealing is legit? give dakka your addy? and if your TV etal gets nicked then its legit to... get a grip pal

Give dakka my addy? what there the warhammer police now are they? stealing is legit? where have i said this? just remember this. ive got fook loads of models, paints, scenery, ive spent 1/3 of there actual retail price.

Youve probably payed full price or bought second hand stuff off an 8 year old on ebay that has massacred your models so badly that you have to re spay them black and now you cant see the models details.....

Whos the idiot here?

Survival of the fittest mate...

im over it...

Are you?

For the record - DAKKA DAKKKA is 100% against piracy.

This thread is now closed.