Did look to see if another post was already here but couldnt find one?, please point me in the right direction if there is!


New FAQs out, PFG now does not extend from the hull if embarked, nor does it protect the vehicle :(

DWA is finally cleared up, as I suspected DWA units DO count towards reserves limit

Not sure this thread is really warranted but while it's here:

They also Errata'd it so Deathwing Terminators who take TH/SS or Twin LCs trade their storm bolter and power fist, not all weapons, thus clearing up the "can they take a cyclone?" question.

Yep, shocking that they would want DWA to actually follow the rules, and not some made up version where they get to ignore a restriction by being "forced" to DS.

Well that kinda sucks but it could be worse, they did give belial an iron halo though. They also stated that the banner of devisation does work on hurricane bolters, which is nice to see in writing.

Main FAQ also clears up a lot of threads on here that wasnt resolved, like drop pods NOT taking hull points, the silly post I saw where someone argued gun slinger meant he could fire two PSA, swarms taking double damage when being instakilled etc

Wow i'm gobsmacked about the DW reserves ruling. Just wow, a total kick in the you know whats to pure deathwing armies.

There is a nice addition to the ravenwing command squads tho. They can now be 5 members strong.

But sad panda face overall for DW armies since they are now even harder to field than before.

 Holy~Heretic wrote:
Wow i'm gobsmacked about the DW reserves ruling. Just wow, a total kick in the you know whats to pure deathwing armies.

There is a nice addition to the ravenwing command squads tho. They can now be 5 members strong.

But sad panda face overall for DW armies since they are now even harder to field than before.

Wow, totally missed that!, thats a lot more interesting having 5 in a RW command squad.

To be honest, with the daemons losing all reserve rule and only marines being able to do it I suspected DW would lose all reserve armies as well.

It's not harder to field a DW army. You just now have to decide if you are willing to risk slogging across the field or take some tac squads to hold the back so you can DS all of your DW.

Though I expected the FAQ to go the way it did, I still had hoped that DW might have been an exception.

It was obviously going to go that way, why would Deathwing be allowed to drop their entire army on turn 1? That would be ridiculously OP Drop pod armies can't drop all their drop pods.

 Infreak wrote:
It's not harder to field a DW army. You just now have to decide if you are willing to risk slogging across the field or take some tac squads to hold the back so you can DS all of your DW.

Though I expected the FAQ to go the way it did, I still had hoped that DW might have been an exception.

I mean it makes DW alot less competitive, something they were far from in the first place.

The ruling on the power field generators makes me very sad since I used a techmarine in a vehicle with a PFG to shield 2 or 3 other vehicles on a regular basis. Though, I suspected that this would eventually be ruled out. It was a bit OP. I think I might try simply stacking 3 tanks close together and put the Techmarine out of sight behind them.

This came out of the left field and I never anticipated this: "Any Deathwing Terminator can replace his storm bolter and powerfist with ...."
Now I have to remove the Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield from my seargents.... really unhappy about this since I thought they were my most good looking terminator models.

I sounded stupid at home as I let out a sound of surprise at reading that the Black Knight could take an extra two men. I might actually try Ravenwing+SoD.

For the deathwing army completelly in reserve: I never interpreted it like this, so nothing changed for me.

Finally, the rulling on the Standard of Devastation and the Hurricane bolter took me by surprise. I never used this combination as I was completelly convinced that the FAQ would rule it out but, surprisingly, it can be done!
So now my PFG techmarine will go in a Land Raider Crusader.

The PFG won't even effect the transport it's in anymore.
Why would they remove the ability of the Sargeant to take a TH/SS? Doesn't make sense.

 Blaggard wrote:
The PFG won't even effect the transport it's in anymore.
Why would they remove the ability of the Sargeant to take a TH/SS? Doesn't make sense.

This came out of the left field and I never anticipated this: "Any Deathwing Terminator can replace his storm bolter and powerfist with ...."
Now I have to remove the Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield from my seargents.... really unhappy about this since I thought they were my most good looking terminator models.

They didn't remove that change. It says any MODEL may replace his SB/PF with .. and then include a TH/SS in the replacements. The Sgt is a model.

Rorschach9 wrote:

 Blaggard wrote:
The PFG won't even effect the transport it's in anymore.
Why would they remove the ability of the Sargeant to take a TH/SS? Doesn't make sense.

This came out of the left field and I never anticipated this: "Any Deathwing Terminator can replace his storm bolter and powerfist with ...."
Now I have to remove the Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield from my seargents.... really unhappy about this since I thought they were my most good looking terminator models.

They didn't remove that change. It says any MODEL may replace his SB/PF with .. and then include a TH/SS in the replacements. The Sgt is a model.

The Sgt. is a model who lacks a Power Fist and thus does not meet the requirements to swap.

 Happyjew wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:

 Blaggard wrote:
The PFG won't even effect the transport it's in anymore.
Why would they remove the ability of the Sargeant to take a TH/SS? Doesn't make sense.

This came out of the left field and I never anticipated this: "Any Deathwing Terminator can replace his storm bolter and powerfist with ...."
Now I have to remove the Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield from my seargents.... really unhappy about this since I thought they were my most good looking terminator models.

They didn't remove that change. It says any MODEL may replace his SB/PF with .. and then include a TH/SS in the replacements. The Sgt is a model.

The Sgt. is a model who lacks a Power Fist and thus does not meet the requirements to swap.

Ah, good point.

 Blaggard wrote:
The PFG won't even effect the transport it's in anymore.
Why would they remove the ability of the Sargeant to take a TH/SS? Doesn't make sense.

What? They dont effect transports anymore? Where do you get that from? The ork mekboy generator thing works on transports...

Removing the ability for a Sargeant to take a TH/SS does strike me as a bit odd. Maybe it was one of those rare poorly thought out changes...

 Infreak wrote:
Removing the ability for a Sargeant to take a TH/SS does strike me as a bit odd. Maybe it was one of those rare poorly thought out changes...

You mean like this one:

Q: The Farseer Psychic Powers rules state that they do not require the
Eldar Psyker to have line of sight to the target. Does this mean that they
can be used by an Eldar psyker embarked on a Transport? (p28)
A: No.

You'd think they would have fixed that, but no. They felt it was more important to clarify that Mind War allows Cover Saves.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Infreak wrote:
Removing the ability for a Sargeant to take a TH/SS does strike me as a bit odd. Maybe it was one of those rare poorly thought out changes...

You mean like this one:

Q: The Farseer Psychic Powers rules state that they do not require the
Eldar Psyker to have line of sight to the target. Does this mean that they
can be used by an Eldar psyker embarked on a Transport? (p28)
A: No.

You'd think they would have fixed that, but no. They felt it was more important to clarify that Mind War allows Cover Saves.

And LOS, very against the fluff! lol.

LOS! doesn't bother me that much. I've only used the power a couple times to snipe certain models (such as the HW guy).

 Blaggard wrote:
The PFG won't even effect the transport it's in anymore.

Crap! You're right. Its even worse than I thought!

 paqman wrote:

 Blaggard wrote:
The PFG won't even effect the transport it's in anymore.

Crap! You're right. Its even worse than I thought!

It should at least give it to the vehicle it is in. Silly ruling.

Ironically, you could have the Techmarine on foot in between 3 vehicles and they would get the benefit. (wedge formation, 2 with 1 in front and techmarine in the middle)

40k-noob wrote:

 paqman wrote:

 Blaggard wrote:
The PFG won't even effect the transport it's in anymore.

Crap! You're right. Its even worse than I thought!

It should at least give it to the vehicle it is in. Silly ruling.

Ironically, you could have the Techmarine on foot in between 3 vehicles and they would get the benefit. (wedge formation, 2 with 1 in front and techmarine in the middle)

Thinking on a bike might be better for measuring from the base, this is what I will be running now instead of on foot well in transport on foot.

I am pretty sure somebody owes me a name change. Anyhow I was right on everything pre-faq so it makes me happy.

CML TH/SS is clearly legal...it always has been
DWA counts towards reserves..duh
The Sgt losing the TH/SS option for challenges kinda sucks but oh well.

tgf wrote:


CML TH/SS is clearly legal...it always has been

To be fair it was not that clear. It needed a Errata not just a FAQ it was written badly

tgf wrote:
I am pretty sure somebody owes me a name change. Anyhow I was right on everything pre-faq so it makes me happy.

CML TH/SS is clearly legal...it always has been
DWA counts towards reserves..duh
The Sgt losing the TH/SS option for challenges kinda sucks but oh well.

Not just challenges, against shooting too. Sarge with TH/SS eats any AP1/2 and I try to LOS anything else onto the other guys. That's no longer possible, if you take a TH/SS he keeps eating all wounds until he dies.

I for one am happy that i can now add more bikes to my Ravenwing command squad, even if it costs 40 pts to do so... Happy days!

40k-noob wrote:

 paqman wrote:

 Blaggard wrote:
The PFG won't even effect the transport it's in anymore.

Crap! You're right. Its even worse than I thought!

It should at least give it to the vehicle it is in. Silly ruling.

Ironically, you could have the Techmarine on foot in between 3 vehicles and they would get the benefit. (wedge formation, 2 with 1 in front and techmarine in the middle)

That's exactly what I will do.

I think its ridiculous that the PFG doesnt even affect the transport that is carrying the techmarine/librarian. As its been pointed out - being outside would protech the LR. I guess they just wanted to allow enemies to shoot the PFG character dead.

Or give him a Bike to keep up, get T5 and a Jink.

Not a fan of this FAQ. It kind of cemented that there is only 1 way to build a half way competitive DA list, and that's with a Land Raider Crusader with a Standard of Devastation in it surrounded by Bikes and Land Speeders. I think they are intentionally making 6th edition a pure shooty edition with no hope for assault style armies.

I am really confused about the sargent not being able to take weapon changes. Do you guys think this is a mistake or intended? And will this be enforced in tournies etc?

 Holy~Heretic wrote:
I am really confused about the sargent not being able to take weapon changes. Do you guys think this is a mistake or intended? And will this be enforced in tournies etc?

Personally I think it was mistake. In a friendly game I would not enforce it.

Ugh the Sgt. FAQ is really annoying! It was definitely (IMO) an oversight to prohibit Sgts from taking TH/SS or tlLC

Given that all other terminator assault squads can TH up the sergeant and that the box set comes with 5 thss arms, its a safebet that its an oversight

I was kinda hoping for the new FAQ to make the Nephilim/Dark Talon playable :(

 Flinty wrote:
Given that all other terminator assault squads can TH up the sergeant and that the box set comes with 5 thss arms, its a safebet that its an oversight

I agree on this but what other effect would this new wording have other than to prevent the Saergent from taking the TH/SS?
The new wording was added to both the command squad and the normal death wing squad. They had to think about it twice before writing it.

I am annoyed with these errata-ed entries (less than the PFG techmarine in vehicles though)

Mythantor wrote:
I was kinda hoping for the new FAQ to make the Nephilim/Dark Talon playable :(

And this ^^

The DWCS doesn't have a Sargent so it doesn't really effect them in that regard.

 Blaggard wrote:
The DWCS doesn't have a Sargent so it doesn't really effect them in that regard.

True! So, I will use my TH/SS seargent as a model part of the command squad!
Thanks for pointing this out.

 paqman wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
Given that all other terminator assault squads can TH up the sergeant and that the box set comes with 5 thss arms, its a safebet that its an oversight

I agree on this but what other effect would this new wording have other than to prevent the Saergent from taking the TH/SS?
The new wording was added to both the command squad and the normal death wing squad. They had to think about it twice before writing it.

The change was made so that a model with TH/SS could take a CML.

 Happyjew wrote:

 paqman wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
Given that all other terminator assault squads can TH up the sergeant and that the box set comes with 5 thss arms, its a safebet that its an oversight

I agree on this but what other effect would this new wording have other than to prevent the Saergent from taking the TH/SS?
The new wording was added to both the command squad and the normal death wing squad. They had to think about it twice before writing it.

The change was made so that a model with TH/SS could take a CML.

Ha! I see!
I had a CML ready but not added to a TH/SS model yet while waiting for this ruling.
Thanks again for pointing this out. It hadn't been obvious from my point of view but it is now that I re-read it.

^ *Could* take a CML????

 Deuce11 wrote:
^ *Could* take a CML????

Yes "could" take a CML. Pre-FAQ it was argued that since you replaced "all" weapons with TH/SS then you had to lose the CMl.

I find the PFG ruling frustrating, not because I'm mad keen on PFGs, but just because it seems to contradict the BRB. I hate having to remember stuff like that...




Automatically Appended Next Post:
More than made up for by the RW Command Squad addition though. I guess they needed to shift more boxes of Black Knights!

Well, 40k is a set of rules, with codices full of exceptions!

Oh, yeah, I don't really mind that part, but I don't much like further exceptions in FAQs.

Hektik wrote:
Not a fan of this FAQ. It kind of cemented that there is only 1 way to build a half way competitive DA list, and that's with a Land Raider Crusader with a Standard of Devastation in it surrounded by Bikes and Land Speeders. I think they are intentionally making 6th edition a pure shooty edition with no hope for assault style armies.

You mean a Ravenwing list with an LRC supported by PFG Techmarine on a bike and 5-man RCS with the Banner?

The PFG nerf was coming, but you still can mount a PFG tech on bike behind it, just a little more tricky but still viable. This does mean Helldrakes got a stealth buff vs DA, no more LRC of 4++. :(

Well the Deathwing Assault ruling is a blow, so much for pure Deathwing in 6th Edition.

5-man RCS is huge. Why would you complain about paying 40 points for Black Knights when the alternative is... 42 Points in the Fast attack slot?

Vast Stasis Anomaly got nerfed slightly, but I don't know anyone who uses it or ever will.

Asmodai got a bolt pistol. Yay! Still unplayable rubbish.

Strangely, no ruling on the RW command squad being unlocked by Bike Techmarine.

It is absolutely ridiculous to deny the DW sergeant the ability to take a TH/SS. I really hope it is poorly worded and they are gonna fix it sooner or later.

About the Deathwing Terminator Squads I think that the "replacing their storm bolter and power fist with..." means that the Sergeants cannot take a Storm shield / Thunder Hammer anymore, as well as anything else you've said.

Ohhh already written my bad...

Get used to it, this is 40k and you play DAs. GW should include free lube with every codex.

The PFG affects every model within 3", whether friend or enemy, EXCEPT the transport if you are in one. So much fail in this that I am now a sad panda. 9-(

DA faq is this?

I like the PFG FAQ ruling. It seems counter intuitive to me to put a piece of equipment inside a vehicle and it suddenly has a larger area of effect.

 Azrell wrote:
Get used to it, this is 40k and you play DAs. GW should include free lube with every codex.

so true, unless you play Ravenwing, whereupon you can offer it to your opponents.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just realised you could have used the pre-nerf Vast Stasis Bomb on things like Wraithstars and Tervigons or Paladins in conjunction with the Stasis grenade to insta-kill them. Derp.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 Azrell wrote:
Get used to it, this is 40k and you play DAs. GW should include free lube with every codex.

so true, unless you play Ravenwing, whereupon you can offer it to your opponents.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of some pimply haired man applying lube to my... Nevermind.

Also, I am not really that worried when I face Ravenwing. Bikes aren't so great.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 Azrell wrote:
Get used to it, this is 40k and you play DAs. GW should include free lube with every codex.

so true, unless you play Ravenwing, whereupon you can offer it to your opponents.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of some pimply haired man applying lube to my... Nevermind.

Also, I am not really that worried when I face Ravenwing. Bikes aren't so great.

Yeah cause DW termies are...

whill4 wrote:
I like the PFG FAQ ruling. It seems counter intuitive to me to put a piece of equipment inside a vehicle and it suddenly has a larger area of effect.

I understand why they did that. AV14 with a 4++ is very powerful. Especially since there is a distinct lack of str8+ in armies now that its an infantry based edition. I'd say it even crossed into OP territory, however a Bigmeks KFF works this way. So now we have two similar pieces of wargear that don't work the same while embarked in a vehicle. If any other wargear exists which works similar to these we now have to ask if it will or will not work while embarked in a vehicle. Very sloppy.

Especially when the same piece of equipment placed OUTSIDE The vheicle still works on the vehicle. So you stick the TM on a bike with a 5 man Knight squad and youre good to go anyway....

In addition to the sergeant shenanigans, would that also mean that, like it is now, an apothecary cannot take a TH/SS? It says that it must replace the power fist with the narthecium and then it says that any model may replace the power fist and SB with a TH/SS. I would assume that you cannot have an apothecary with a TH/SS now too, as the previous entry said "May replace all weapons with a TH/SS." Not sure a narthecium is considered a weapon so I would imagine this actually hurts the apothecary option too.

But I may be wrong.

And on the topic of the sgt. I imagine that this is, once again, a rules oversight. Effectively we have gained CMLs on out TH/SS but then lost a viable challenge option for our sergeants... I would prefer it the old way if this is true, as the CML guy usually just hangs in the back anyway. In a friendly game I can't imagine anyone being opposed to you keeping your sgts with their TH/SS because that rule is written poorly... again... and makes no logical sense.

- VardenV2

 VardenV2 wrote:
In addition to the sergeant shenanigans, would that also mean that, like it is now, an apothecary cannot take a TH/SS? It says that it must replace the power fist with the narthecium and then it says that any model may replace the power fist and SB with a TH/SS. I would assume that you cannot have an apothecary with a TH/SS now too, as the previous entry said "May replace all weapons with a TH/SS." Not sure a narthecium is considered a weapon so I would imagine this actually hurts the apothecary option too.

But I may be wrong.

And on the topic of the sgt. I imagine that this is, once again, a rules oversight. Effectively we have gained CMLs on out TH/SS but then lost a viable challenge option for our sergeants... I would prefer it the old way if this is true, as the CML guy usually just hangs in the back anyway. In a friendly game I can't imagine anyone being opposed to you keeping your sgts with their TH/SS because that rule is written poorly... again... and makes no logical sense.

- VardenV2

But it's not. This brings the Termies into line with every other unit in the Codex. Troopers have different options than their Sgt in every case. The Apothocary always gives up a weapon, whether PA, bike, or Termie the Narth isn't a weapon and replaces one of your weapons. This isn't how it used to be, but this is a new codex and new edition. If your Apoth doesn't have a Narth then you don't have an Apoth so no FnP for you. "Viable challenge option" when did a model with a 2+/5++ AP3 attack at I4 become an unviable challenge option? Just because you don't like the change doesn't mean it's poorly written, it's just not written in the way that you want it done. As I've said before if you *really* need a challenge taker in your DW squad suit up a Int-Chap or a Libby, you can still have your TH/SS and now you have better Init and more Wounds

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
DA faq is this?

Well said.

andystache wrote:

 VardenV2 wrote:
In addition to the sergeant shenanigans, would that also mean that, like it is now, an apothecary cannot take a TH/SS? It says that it must replace the power fist with the narthecium and then it says that any model may replace the power fist and SB with a TH/SS. I would assume that you cannot have an apothecary with a TH/SS now too, as the previous entry said "May replace all weapons with a TH/SS." Not sure a narthecium is considered a weapon so I would imagine this actually hurts the apothecary option too.

But I may be wrong.

And on the topic of the sgt. I imagine that this is, once again, a rules oversight. Effectively we have gained CMLs on out TH/SS but then lost a viable challenge option for our sergeants... I would prefer it the old way if this is true, as the CML guy usually just hangs in the back anyway. In a friendly game I can't imagine anyone being opposed to you keeping your sgts with their TH/SS because that rule is written poorly... again... and makes no logical sense.

- VardenV2

But it's not. This brings the Termies into line with every other unit in the Codex. Troopers have different options than their Sgt in every case. The Apothocary always gives up a weapon, whether PA, bike, or Termie the Narth isn't a weapon and replaces one of your weapons. This isn't how it used to be, but this is a new codex and new edition. If your Apoth doesn't have a Narth then you don't have an Apoth so no FnP for you. "Viable challenge option" when did a model with a 2+/5++ AP3 attack at I4 become an unviable challenge option? Just because you don't like the change doesn't mean it's poorly written, it's just not written in the way that you want it done. As I've said before if you *really* need a challenge taker in your DW squad suit up a Int-Chap or a Libby, you can still have your TH/SS and now you have better Init and more Wounds

In every other codex it's the Sargeants who can take different weapon loadouts, not the bog standard dudes.

Interesting note there Blaggard, but consider this, the only options available to an HQ in Termie (except Big B) are Special Issue and Terminator weapons. Sgt's never get Special Issue and the only option in Terminator weapons is a combi weapon. So the DW Sgt is still in line with the established codex in terms of equipment. If you think of the alternate CC weapons in a DW squad as the equivalent of special weapons to a PA squad then everything falls into place.

But our PA sargeants can take melee weapons. The DW sargeant cannot choose to take anything. Although looking at the rules that seems to have been the case even before the FAQ.

 Azrell wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
DA faq is this?

Well said.

Yep. I kept reading the thread title as this.

Also, since DWA counts toward reserves, can we infer that this applies to all Termies? Ie. TDA "can always DS" means they count toward your reserve limit, so no GK all reserve armies.

Well a GK all reserve army would auto-lose as they don't have anything on the board Turn 1.

Except Mordrak I guess. Nevermind.

Elric - no, because pre=6th edition TDA specifically allow you to ALWAYS start in reserve. If you are prevented from starting in reserve you have broken this rule, and must have a more specific rule stating so, and this more specific rule does not exist - as this answer is ONLY for DWA currently

 Blaggard wrote:
But our PA sargeants can take melee weapons. The DW sargeant cannot choose to take anything. Although looking at the rules that seems to have been the case even before the FAQ.

I saw that too, but that would cause weirdness, like a Termie Sgt using a Chainsword. Even if they added that option you'd have a Sgt with TH/SB as Storm Shields aren't in the armory, they're in specific unit entries. I've always though if you're running you DW as TH/SS why didn't you just buy the DWK, you're giving up the coolest abilities of the DW by removing ranged weapons, but that's just my take on it

All you're doing is removing storm bolters, no the most killy thing. You always had the option of keeping one guy with a PF/SB to swap to a weapon which wasn't a CML.

I didn't say most killy just coolest, that being the ability to shoot a tank with a missile and a squad with storm bolters then charge the squad and TL deep striking. But like I say that's just me and I like my DA to be extra shooty, it's what the Greenwing is known for

You still get to TL the Heavy weapon and charge, which is what counts. The SBs add some wounds but that 3++ and scoring is delicious.
I'll leave shooty termi's to the GK, DA wants to be in melee imo.

See man I gotta stay outta threads with you, you're liable to make me do things like think, and we just can't have that. New test list with Azzie and Vets in a DP with a T2 DWA, maybe even go Cypher Vets with two pistols to make the most of that first round of shooting

I tmakes no sense that the sergeant, most likely the most experienced member of the DW squad, would not be able to take a SS/TH. Especially because many people have already modeled their sgts to have those weapons. To me, the wording was used to clarify that the CML may be used on someone with a TH/SS. In the process of doing so, they accidentally messed up the sergeant's option. There's no reason for the wording in the original print if the intention was to make it so that the DW sgt couldn't take the options. Otherwise they would have written "Any Deathwing terminator may..." from the get go and nothing would have been confusing. But it goes from "any model may replace all weapons" to "any model may replace SB and PF."... so they created another problem and changed the squad dynamics AGAIN without intending to do so I think... sigh...

And yes, a 2+ 5++ terminator with a power sword is good at challenges. But yknow who is WAY BETTER at challenges? A sgt with a TH/SS... aka almost every other terminator sergeant you will fight in close combat.

- VardenV2

 VardenV2 wrote:
I tmakes no sense that the sergeant, most likely the most experienced member of the DW squad, would not be able to take a SS/TH. Especially because many people have already modeled their sgts to have those weapons. To me, the wording was used to clarify that the CML may be used on someone with a TH/SS. In the process of doing so, they accidentally messed up the sergeant's option. There's no reason for the wording in the original print if the intention was to make it so that the DW sgt couldn't take the options. Otherwise they would have written "Any Deathwing terminator may..." from the get go and nothing would have been confusing. But it goes from "any model may replace all weapons" to "any model may replace SB and PF."... so they created another problem and changed the squad dynamics AGAIN without intending to do so I think... sigh...

And yes, a 2+ 5++ terminator with a power sword is good at challenges. But yknow who is WAY BETTER at challenges? A sgt with a TH/SS... aka almost every other terminator sergeant you will fight in close combat.

- VardenV2

Its been obvious from the get go that they just don't give a damn about dark angels. They literally cut and pasted the DA vets from the last codex, and nothing in the codex really has much synergy. Sure a ravenwing biker has a TPH but so what? the nilla codex give you the option of taking those on almost every Sargent in any squad, even scouts! Its almost like they play tested the DAs units without telling the play testers that they were DAs leading them to assume that they would just be more units in the nilla dex, because it has some serious holes that you have to take allies to fill.

Its been obvious from the get go that they just don't give a damn about dark angels. They literally cut and pasted the DA vets from the last codex, and nothing in the codex really has much synergy. Sure a ravenwing biker has a TPH but so what? the nilla codex give you the option of taking those on almost every Sargent in any squad, even scouts! Its almost like they play tested the DAs units without telling the play testers that they were DAs leading them to assume that they would just be more units in the nilla dex, because it has some serious holes that you have to take allies to fill.

This is patently untrue. There's some crap in the codex, but there's crap in every codex. Standards, PFG, and Black Knights make this the strongest Dark Angel codex ever written.

Sure it could be much better in some aspects, but let's not expect too much from GW, really.

+1 to that Asmodai. I think this is the strongest DA codex ever written. Plus I am psyched to be able to add extra B. Knights to my RW command squad. It seemed to small stuck at 3 models.

The thing is Black Knights for 40 points are possibly one of the most points efficient units in the game, for the same cost as a SM Bike with plasma you get Skilled Rider, Hit and Run, Str 5 Rending, and Twin-Linked, and the access to the awesome grenade launcher. There really isn't any point in taking Black Knights for 2 points more when you can get a 5 man command squad instead.

 VardenV2 wrote:
In addition to the sergeant shenanigans, would that also mean that, like it is now, an apothecary cannot take a TH/SS? It says that it must replace the power fist with the narthecium and then it says that any model may replace the power fist and SB with a TH/SS. I would assume that you cannot have an apothecary with a TH/SS now too, as the previous entry said "May replace all weapons with a TH/SS." Not sure a narthecium is considered a weapon so I would imagine this actually hurts the apothecary option too.

But I may be wrong.

You are wrong, the Apothecary already couldn't take a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield because he's not a "Deathwing Terminator" but rather a "Deathwing Apothecary"

Nothing has changed there.

Hey all, very new player here, and this ambiguity is bothering me. How does something like this get cleared up? Wait for the next FAQ? How often are they usually released?

As I'm just starting out, I won't be playing any tournament level games any time soon, so it's probably not that big of a deal anyway. But, even casually, I'd like to know that I'm playing by the correct rules.

Anesthetize wrote:
Hey all, very new player here, and this ambiguity is bothering me. How does something like this get cleared up? Wait for the next FAQ? How often are they usually released?

As I'm just starting out, I won't be playing any tournament level games any time soon, so it's probably not that big of a deal anyway. But, even casually, I'd like to know that I'm playing by the correct rules.

Sometimes never, and you'll find lots of ambiguity in the rules as you go along. This is cleared up. This isn't even nearly as ambiguous as some unFAQ'ed things you'll find.

GW has a terrible record of keeping updates. When it comes to wargear and such, just agree with your opponent to do whatever makes sense.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
The thing is Black Knights for 40 points are possibly one of the most points efficient units in the game, for the same cost as a SM Bike with plasma you get Skilled Rider, Hit and Run, Str 5 Rending, and Twin-Linked, and the access to the awesome grenade launcher. There really isn't any point in taking Black Knights for 2 points more when you can get a 5 man command squad instead.

Exalted. I couldn't agree more.

 Infreak wrote:

whill4 wrote:
I like the PFG FAQ ruling. It seems counter intuitive to me to put a piece of equipment inside a vehicle and it suddenly has a larger area of effect.

I understand why they did that. AV14 with a 4++ is very powerful. Especially since there is a distinct lack of str8+ in armies now that its an infantry based edition. I'd say it even crossed into OP territory, however a Bigmeks KFF works this way. So now we have two similar pieces of wargear that don't work the same while embarked in a vehicle. If any other wargear exists which works similar to these we now have to ask if it will or will not work while embarked in a vehicle. Very sloppy.

Actually, its not sloppy at all, it makes sense. If I recall (and I may be off on this one), all Ork transports are open topped, so it makes sense that a force field generator would work for them. Meanwhile, Marine transports are completely enclosed, so it makes no sense what-so-ever that the field would cover anything outside the transport, but would cover vehicles when PFG is outside.

Now that sensible logic is out of the way, the real motivation for this was a nerf to keep DA LRs from being OP. Lord forbid an army other than Necrons have OP combos (I'm still bitter about the sophoric musk/acquiescence nerf and the constant FAQ buffing of Necrons)

Battlewagons and Looted wagons dont have to be open topped.

 Drunkspleen wrote:

 VardenV2 wrote:
In addition to the sergeant shenanigans, would that also mean that, like it is now, an apothecary cannot take a TH/SS? It says that it must replace the power fist with the narthecium and then it says that any model may replace the power fist and SB with a TH/SS. I would assume that you cannot have an apothecary with a TH/SS now too, as the previous entry said "May replace all weapons with a TH/SS." Not sure a narthecium is considered a weapon so I would imagine this actually hurts the apothecary option too.

But I may be wrong.

You are wrong, the Apothecary already couldn't take a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield because he's not a "Deathwing Terminator" but rather a "Deathwing Apothecary"

Nothing has changed there.

Ok cool, that's what I thought but was jsut making sure. Another question: In the DW section it says something along the lines of "One deathwing terminator may switch out their Storm Bolter for Plasma cannon, Assault cannon, or Heavy flamer." Does this mean that it is possible to give this upgrade to your apothecary, as he still has a storm bolter? Basically you would swap out his weapon for the assault cannon, and then swap out his power fist for the narthecium, renaming him to the apothecary after he has already taken the upgrade. Is that just a loophole or is that a legitimate build? If so, it would be awesome.

- VardenV2

It used to be legitimate. Currently it is not.

 VardenV2 wrote:

Ok cool, that's what I thought but was jsut making sure. Another question: In the DW section it says something along the lines of "One deathwing terminator may switch out their Storm Bolter for Plasma cannon, Assault cannon, or Heavy flamer." Does this mean that it is possible to give this upgrade to your apothecary, as he still has a storm bolter? Basically you would swap out his weapon for the assault cannon, and then swap out his power fist for the narthecium, renaming him to the apothecary after he has already taken the upgrade. Is that just a loophole or is that a legitimate build? If so, it would be awesome.

No you cannot do this. Apotechary is no longer a Deathwing Terminator, so he cannot have upgrades meant for Deathwing Terminators. Just like Dark Eldar Sybarites cannot have heavy or special weapons even though they're upgraded from standard warriors who can. If GW meant to this to be possible, they would have written 'any model' instead of 'Deathwing Terminator'.

Ok, cool thanks for the clarification. I was assuming that the apothecary couldn't take the upgrade, but I was reading last night and it sort of dawned on me that it might be possible. I guess the apothecary will have to have the role of keeping everyone alive as opposed to gunning everyone down haha.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Elric - no, because pre=6th edition TDA specifically allow you to ALWAYS start in reserve. If you are prevented from starting in reserve you have broken this rule, and must have a more specific rule stating so, and this more specific rule does not exist - as this answer is ONLY for DWA currently

I disagree. TDA specifically gives permission to deep strike, not start in reserve. A unit must be in reserve in order to deep strike.

It gives you permission to always Deepstrike. If you try to prevent them going into reserves, in order to deepstrike, have you followed the rule?

 Blaggard wrote:
You still get to TL the Heavy weapon and charge, which is what counts. The SBs add some wounds but that 3++ and scoring is delicious.
I'll leave shooty termi's to the GK, DA wants to be in melee imo.

Que???
"TL and charge?"
So the vengeful strike lets you TL all weapons that turn. But are you saying that you can then charge? The turn you arrive by deep strike. Where does it say that? (PS here's wishing it was true!!)

nosferatu1001 wrote:
It gives you permission to always Deepstrike. If you try to prevent them going into reserves, in order to deepstrike, have you followed the rule?

Unregard original.

I think the important distinction to be made is the use of the word "may" meaning that Deep Strike is an optional deployment method for models wearing TDA. That would also mean that models in TDA deploying via DS would count against the 50% in reserve limit since you are choosing to place them in reserves. The only units that don't count against the 50% are those that "must" begin the game in reserve. The only time that you would be kept from placing a model in TDA in reserve for arrival via DS would be if more than 50% of your army is equipped with TDA. Otherwise you're limited in the number of other models that you can place in reserve, not those in TDA. If more than 50% of your army is in TDA, RAW, you could place them all in reserve and DS them since specific rules trump general ones, making the FAQ FAQ'n wrong in that special case.

Actually they could always deepstrike "even if" the Reserves rule was not in play. So not really sure what your post is, as it is incorrect in pretty much every way.

Reread everything and I stand corrected. Above post redacted.

Yep, as I said - they count towards the limit, but the limit does not apply to them. So they could prevent non-oldTDA equipped units from being placed into reserves, if that would exceed 50% of total units being placed in reserves, but cannot themselves be prevented from being placed in reserves.

It will all be moot once the final oldTDA equipped models get their 6th ed update, which removes this allowance.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
It will all be moot once the final oldTDA equipped models get their 6th ed update, which removes this allowance.

You assume...

Not really, given both CHaos and DA terminators have lost this rule. It would be unusual to add this back in.