This thread is for those who have seen the movie, or don't care about ruiing plot points for themselves. Still, being the good natured ruffian that I am, will still be using spoiler tags anyway.
Overall I had fun and it was entertaining. I thought their take on the Mandarin was interesting and had no issues with it. I didn't really like it any better or worse then the others, in the big scheme of things, truth be told. There are some questionable moments, but overall if you want your fix of man in super suit you should be happy.
Spoiler:
Killian fit the philosophical and intellectual Mandarin quite well, once it is known. He operated through 3 movies with general anonymity and was pulling all the strings from the shadows, even unto the audience for most of the third movie. I've heard some didn't like it, but I really thought it was quite cool when he breathed fire. That was the point where I knew he was actually the real Mandarin and was going to say as much, or at least I was pretty sure. After we left the theater I was thinking over the line 'we make our own demons', which is pretty basic, but then recalled the fire breathing and arm reattachment as well as all the other fiery displays and realized it was also literal in that he became a demon, not just that the hero's flaws created the villain. I thought the actual fight between the two was well done, to a point*, and think going with the dichotomy of mechanical sciences versus biological sciences is an interesting choice.
I understand why Pepper survived the fall and the fire, but how did her bra survive the fire?
*All the others were soldiers that were augmented, and who knows what Killian had been up to, but why did Pepper suddenly know Kung Fu when she was injected with the virus? I would have liked a bit more fight between the three of them at that point, or even have War Machine return, who I had hoped to see in action a bit more.
The kid was used well, not to much screen time, and not overbearing.
The Extremis soldiers weren't well enough defined and seemed to be all over the place, power wise, at times, but I suppose that is a nitpick.
I forgot. I already got an email from Amazon telling me that Iron Man 3 is up for pre-order.
I suppose I should use spoiler tags as well for now.
Spoiler:
All the armour seemed a lot weaker in this one as well, which I suppose is an alright touch. He isn't flying around in some indestructible can so much, but a lot of the times that Mk42 seemed like a piece of junk. Fitting though since it was a prototype that wasn't combat ready, but still.
After all the advertisement and such it was a nice twist to have that Mandarin guy actually as a puppet with the real one hiding in plain sight the entire time.
All the armour seemed a lot weaker in this one as well, which I suppose is an alright touch. He isn't flying around in some indestructible can so much, but a lot of the times that Mk42 seemed like a piece of junk. Fitting though since it was a prototype that wasn't combat ready, but still.
Spoiler:
I think that is part of the soldiers having varying levels of power as I mentioned above, with also assuming that in his obsession to make a bunch of suits in a short period that many of them were not combat suits, like the ones blown up earlier. I would have liked to see the heavy loader one that looked like a Hulk buster armor hit something though.
I forgot, i did like that essentially the whole thing was a flashback that Tony is relating to a very disengaged (I'm not that kind of Doctor) Bruce Banner.
It was fun but the 1st Iron Man Movie was the best, that being said there were a few parts in the 3rd one that annoyed me like when he saved all those people falling out of the plane that didn't really make sense to me.
I'm not that familiar with the character of the Mandarin so when the spoiler came I had no preconceptions about the character. Personally I loved it. The film overall was a real return to form for the franchise. Great dialog, lots of action and humor and it flowed well.
Quick question though, at the end Stark gets the the shrapnel removed. I thought that was supposed to be impossible, that it was too close to his heart for surgery to be on option. Hence the mini arc reactor. Was I wrong or is this a plot hole?
I assume that he's not retiring Iron Man, he's just no longer going to be reliant on it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cheesecat wrote: It was fun but the 1st Iron Man Movie was the best, that being said there were a few parts in the 3rd one that annoyed me like when he saved all those people falling out of the plane that didn't really make sense to me.
I'm not that familiar with the character of the Mandarin so when the spoiler came I had no preconceptions about the character. Personally I loved it. The film overall was a real return to form for the franchise. Great dialog, lots of action and humor and it flowed well.
Quick question though, at the end Stark gets the the shrapnel removed. I thought that was supposed to be impossible, that it was too close to his heart for surgery to be on option. Hence the mini arc reactor. Was I wrong or is this a plot hole?
I assume that he's not retiring Iron Man, he's just no longer going to be reliant on it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cheesecat wrote: It was fun but the 1st Iron Man Movie was the best, that being said there were a few parts in the 3rd one that annoyed me like when he saved all those people falling out of the plane that didn't really make sense to me.
Spoiler:
That was a simulation run by Jarvis wasn't it?
Maybe, but everything went by so fast in that scene it was hard to tell if it was simulation or if they were back at the boat after saving those people.
Ahtman wrote: Killian fit the philosophical and intellectual Mandarin quite well, once it is known. He operated through 3 movies with general anonymity and was pulling all the strings from the shadows, even unto the audience for most of the third movie.
I don't remember Killian being part of the earlier movies.
I'm not that familiar with the character of the Mandarin so when the spoiler came I had no preconceptions about the character. Personally I loved it. The film overall was a real return to form for the franchise. Great dialog, lots of action and humor and it flowed well.
Quick question though, at the end Stark gets the the shrapnel removed. I thought that was supposed to be impossible, that it was too close to his heart for surgery to be on option. Hence the mini arc reactor. Was I wrong or is this a plot hole?
I assume that he's not retiring Iron Man, he's just no longer going to be reliant on it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cheesecat wrote: It was fun but the 1st Iron Man Movie was the best, that being said there were a few parts in the 3rd one that annoyed me like when he saved all those people falling out of the plane that didn't really make sense to me.
Spoiler:
That was a simulation run by Jarvis wasn't it?
Maybe, but everything went by so fast in that scene it was hard to tell if it was simulation or if they were back at the boat after saving those people.
Spoiler:
He was operating the suit by RC so they didn't have to make a round trip to keep going on their boat mission
I'm not that familiar with the character of the Mandarin so when the spoiler came I had no preconceptions about the character. Personally I loved it. The film overall was a real return to form for the franchise. Great dialog, lots of action and humor and it flowed well.
Quick question though, at the end Stark gets the the shrapnel removed. I thought that was supposed to be impossible, that it was too close to his heart for surgery to be on option. Hence the mini arc reactor. Was I wrong or is this a plot hole?
I assume that he's not retiring Iron Man, he's just no longer going to be reliant on it.
Spoiler:
In the Extremis arc Stark obtains regeneration thanks to being exposed to the virus, as well as the ability to control technology (specifically his armor), with his mind. I assume the ability to remove the shrapnel is representative of the former, and that the latter was replaced with his use of J.A.R.V.I.S. as a form of remote control.
Ahtman wrote: Killian fit the philosophical and intellectual Mandarin quite well, once it is known. He operated through 3 movies with general anonymity and was pulling all the strings from the shadows, even unto the audience for most of the third movie.
I don't remember Killian being part of the earlier movies.
Spoiler:
Killian is the real master behind the Ten Rings, of which a branch of the Ten Rings kidnapped Tony in the first movie. The second film requires watching special features and such, but the criminal organization that Whiplash gets his fake passport and plane ticket from is the Ten Rings. It isn't explicit, but if you follow the trail of bread crumbs...
I thoroughly enjoyed the film, although I've never gone into reading the comics or anything I still have the following comments:
Spoiler:
1: I think Kingsley's acting on the Mandarin was absolutely brilliant, although I was a bit peeved when he turned out to be this bumbling oaf. I would have liked to see the more serious side of the Mandarin played out a bit more.
2: As mentioned before the suits seemed a lot weaker than I/II. Some greater focus on the more obscure suits would have been nice too.
3: Is it too much to ask to tone down the product placement? The scene where Stark's house is falling into the sea, you see a brief flash of the Audi logo on screen for a miniscule amount of time like a subliminal message. It could have been my imagination but it seemed pretty real to me... Parts where company logos just happen to be placed in the area just between to conversing characters, just makes you feel like you're in one big 130 min advert.
4: I think the major criticism though is that there was too much comedy mixed into it. The scene where he calls his armour to attach to him and it just hits a girder and crashes, bits like that just ruin the scene entirely. I think such scenes do create a humourous moment, but they were really overused in this film
I wholeheartedly agree that the movie should have been more realistic in the sense that Pepper's bra should have been burnt away...
To be fair, Stark's been driving an Audi since the first film. It's his "thing".
Anyway, I'm not sure how I feel about Iron Man 3 yet.
I've seen it twice, and both times I walked away from it feeling uneasy. It wasn't because of the twist with the Mandarin - I thought that was really clever even if it does create problems with the presence of the 10 Rings in the first two films (was Killian behind those events as well?) - but more because of the ending. It seemed very "conclusion-y" to me, as if to say this is the end of Iron Man. The "Iron Man will return" line at the end of the credits felt hollow, almost as if it were trying to convince itself of that fact.
I'm someone who utterly adores continuity in television shows and movies and so on, so this whole thing Marvel's got going is nirvana to me (even for a non-comic reader like me) because the very idea that they could make all these films within a consistent universe is just amazing. This film like they were intentionally taking a piece of that universe away and putting it into a box.
I still don't really understand what problems people have with Iron Man 2 (I thought it was great), and the finale in that film was miles above this one. Rhodey was great, but he didn't do anything in the suit (Iron Patriot was completely wasted). All the suits were on screen for half a second and exploded almost as soon as the Extremis soldiers touched them. It's a far cry from the brawl with Thor in Avengers or even the pounding Tony's suits took in Iron Man 2.
Ahtman wrote: I forgot. I already got an email from Amazon telling me that Iron Man 3 is up for pre-order.
Not unusual. Amazon likes to jump the gun. Got an E-mail from them telling me Only War was coming out in two weeks. We were still writing it at the time.
Agree re Pepper and clothing ) but I guess Gwyneth was not keen............
The Iron Man suits at the end did seem weaker than expected.... although having Tony constantly having to switch was well done and fun
I got the impression that the sharpnel was only still there as Tony had not really concentrated on the problem.
I liked the whole - "I can fix Pepper as I mostly understood the issues when i was drunk 10 years ago."
It would have been cool to a have few more links ot the other films - I guess Tony would have been suspcious that Killian / Shield may have been linked and Thor is off planet. but given that he and Banner get on:
"Hey Bruce can yopu look after Pepper for a bit whilst I am out of town"
"Hey Killian, have you met my friend with breathtaking anger management issues" would have been amusing at the end.........
He is the mind behind the Ten Rings, and his plan was to control the power from both ends (Government and Terrorism) so it would make sense that he was, even if it was in the early stages in Iron Man 1.
Killian is the real master behind the Ten Rings, of which a branch of the Ten Rings kidnapped Tony in the first movie. The second film requires watching special features and such, but the criminal organization that Whiplash gets his fake passport and plane ticket from is the Ten Rings. It isn't explicit, but if you follow the trail of bread crumbs...
I doubt even Hansel and Gretel could follow those bread crumbs.
Killian is the real master behind the Ten Rings, of which a branch of the Ten Rings kidnapped Tony in the first movie. The second film requires watching special features and such, but the criminal organization that Whiplash gets his fake passport and plane ticket from is the Ten Rings. It isn't explicit, but if you follow the trail of bread crumbs...
I doubt even Hansel and Gretel could follow those bread crumbs.
Killian is the real master behind the Ten Rings, of which a branch of the Ten Rings kidnapped Tony in the first movie. The second film requires watching special features and such, but the criminal organization that Whiplash gets his fake passport and plane ticket from is the Ten Rings. It isn't explicit, but if you follow the trail of bread crumbs...
I doubt even Hansel and Gretel could follow those bread crumbs.
I agree that the Iron Man 2 bit is a stretch, but the organization in the first movie is called the Ten Rings, and the guy even has a ring similar to the ones worn by The Mandarin in the videos, and in the film we find out that Killian is the actual leader and force behind the Ten Rings. It seems a bit obtuse to claim it is hard to follow that the guy who is the leader of the Ten Rings is the leader of the Ten Rings. They used the same symbol in both movies and everything.
I also don't really get the hate for Iron Man 2, and enjoyed it.
It's because the vocals from AC/DC sound like someones manhandling a cat.
I thoroughly enjoyed the movie and can't really name any gripes beyond how little we saw of all the different suits. For an Iron Man movie there was very little Iron Man.
Bit miffed they didn't follow extremis to it's conclusion in the comic though.
Extremis comic spoiler:
Spoiler:
Tony uses a form of extremis on himself essentialy giving him a nanofiber suit which is stored in his bones and gives him a neural link to his suits, greatly increasing reflexes etc. etc.
Jarvis replaces Extremis in these I think, as he is a highly advanced AI and not just a butler. They used Extremis here to 'upgrade' Mandarin to a more modern villain. It also allowed them to make Tony Stark and Mandarin reflections of each other; Tony's suit is external and separate from himself whereas Mandarin's is internal and inseparable.
Ahtman wrote: Jarvis replaces Extremis in these I think, as he is a highly advanced AI and not just a butler. They used Extremis here to 'upgrade' Mandarin to a more modern villain. It also allowed them to make Tony Stark and Mandarin reflections of each other; Tony's suit is external and separate from himself whereas Mandarin's is internal and inseparable.
Which also follows from the "suit up" dialogues between Stark and Banner in Avengers.
Tony uses a form of extremis on himself essentialy giving him a nanofiber suit which is stored in his bones and gives him a neural link to his suits, greatly increasing reflexes etc. etc.
I thought that was the point of the ending, where he talks about how he will understand anything if he tinkers with it, and he did tinker with Extremis. While it points to doing it to save Pepper, the final line 'I am Iron Man', plus the bits about tinkering with Extremis, pretty much point to the nano suit.
My only gripe with it was the Mandarin.
Spoiler:
Not that I minded the twist - it was executed and performed really well. Just that Guy Pearce had nowhere near the screen prescence as Kingsley. Kingsley in his Mandarin garb, on screen giving out his ultimatums was perfect. It was, really, just a waste of the character and casting.
It was enjoyable enough but the weakest of the 3 IMO.
Casting/acting was all good -- Kingsley especially good and i thought the terrorist videos they did looked... well.. p'raps good isn't quite the term here but "realistic" at the very least.
It struck me at times though as if it'd maybe had a few too many rewrites and edits and there were odd bits that didn't make sense.
Some were just small things -- how did he get the suit onto Air Force 1 ?
And...
Spoiler:
The capturing of Tony made no sense. They kidnap Pepper and infect her with the virus to motivate him to save her/fix the issues with the formula...
... then the Mandarin guy shoots the lady "botanist" as she threatens to kill herself if he did something or other, which makes Stark almost his only hope of fixing the formula...
.. so he buggers off leaving Stark all tied up and not working on the problem ? !?
Thought the remotely assembled armour was a nice idea but it became ridiculous, especially when he summoned the 800 miles or so to the Madarin's apartment.
Looked to me and some others as if they cocked up the CGI in the big fight too, when his armour gets cut open... again... there's a moment when his leg disappears completely.
Spoiler:
And I'm somewhat bemused as to exactly how involved the vice president was in the whole thing. He seemed to have a daughter/grandchild/niece/whatever who was missing a limb ...
... so they were going to fix this for him or something then yes ? That all seemed tacked on really.
I was a bit unsure also about how they were able to find the ship -- kudos on the Roxxon name/logo -- for the end fight. They seemed to just set sail and then wind up there ..?
I have to agree that Tony getting operated on at the end made zero sense. The whole point of Iron Man 2 was that his chest piece was killing him and now he just could of had surgery? Made zero sense movie wise.
I loved seeing the Suits getting thrashed. Face it outside the Avengers movie he hasn’t had one single decent fight. First Iron Man he was fighting a guy while he was at 15-20% power. Second Iron Man could of beat the villain be standing 20 feet away and just shooting him instead of sticking in close combat, as it was they created an explosion in front of him that beat him.
Sad that War Machine/Iron Patriot saw no action. All it took was a handshake to take him down. I kept on wanting to see what his big gun did since they replaced his mini-gun, but that never happened. Disappointing that the villain had more action in the suit then Rhode did.
I really enjoyed the movie. I wish that we could have seen more of the suits to see what made some of them more special. Would love to have seen tony using the terminator looking one. Loved it. Was bummed that they kind of wasted the guy playing the mandarin on the videos. He really cam across more as an evil villain than the actual mandarin. Loved the comedy escpeially with the kid. Wasn't really big on the panic attacks though. Seemed kinda lame and kept breaking the whole super hero vib to me.
reds8n wrote: Some were just small things -- how did he get the suit onto Air Force 1 ?
Which suit? The Iron Patrion? It walked on. The MK.43? It wasn't on Air Force 1. Tony flew it there.
Yeah.. and then the Iron Man suit was on board having the big fight, which leads to the explosive decompression which leads to the barrel of monkeys sky diving bit.
reds8n wrote: Some were just small things -- how did he get the suit onto Air Force 1 ?
Which suit? The Iron Patrion? It walked on. The MK.43? It wasn't on Air Force 1. Tony flew it there.
Yeah.. and then the Iron Man suit was on board having the big fight, which leads to the explosive decompression which leads to the barrel of monkeys sky diving bit.
.. so how did the suit get on board ?
I thought he flew in through the hole the explosion left, though not the one where all the people got sucked out. It has been to many days that I don't recall with perfect clarity, but I do remember him punching through a window, but I honestly can't recall how he actually boarded either.
Can be rendered inoperative by a firey handshake, transported from Pakistan to America in a couple of hours, hammered and cut upon to try and open it to no avail, then flown by someone with no training or experience to Air Force 1, then can take out a whole bunch of armed guards and then be remotely piloted/flown back to the HQ whilst containing the President.
Seems a better bit of kit than any of Stark's armours to be honest.
It was mentioned at one point that AIM did some work on the Iron Patriot (I believe upgrades is what they said) for the government so it shouldn't be to much of a stretch to believe that they knew enough about it to learn how to use it.
Valkyrie wrote:
3: Is it too much to ask to tone down the product placement? The scene where Stark's house is falling into the sea, you see a brief flash of the Audi logo on screen for a miniscule amount of time like a subliminal message. It could have been my imagination but it seemed pretty real to me... Parts where company logos just happen to be placed in the area just between to conversing characters, just makes you feel like you're in one big 130 min advert.
This - and I'm a developer for Oracle (yeah, we just spent a month writing code for Tony to use... ) The one that really seemed out of place was the Downton Abbey one. Like he actually announced the time and channel. At least Audi makes sense (from a Tony's a jetsetter perspective) and Oracle makes sense (technology). Do they really think there's a huge crossover audience between Iron Man and Downton?
In the Ultimates there is a leaked sex tape of Tony and Black Widow, so maybe that is the inspiration.
I joke about the bra not burning, but considering the heat put off by the recipients of the virus, I imagine they are put in heat resistant clothing, though I doubt it survives the 3000 degree explosions if the patient can't 'regulate'.
Valkyrie wrote:
3: Is it too much to ask to tone down the product placement? The scene where Stark's house is falling into the sea, you see a brief flash of the Audi logo on screen for a miniscule amount of time like a subliminal message. It could have been my imagination but it seemed pretty real to me... Parts where company logos just happen to be placed in the area just between to conversing characters, just makes you feel like you're in one big 130 min advert.
This - and I'm a developer for Oracle (yeah, we just spent a month writing code for Tony to use... ) The one that really seemed out of place was the Downton Abbey one. Like he actually announced the time and channel. At least Audi makes sense (from a Tony's a jetsetter perspective) and Oracle makes sense (technology). Do they really think there's a huge crossover audience between Iron Man and Downton?
The 1.6 million dollar Oracle Exadata in the random Tennessee affiliate news van made me burst out in the theater. I felt pretty alone in that packed theater at that moment, though...
I thought this was well said, and may help with the 'why did he destroy the suits?' question.
The issues in this film were really subtle.
Like the whole "I am Iron Man" bit, that literally all of my friends missed. The way the kid refers to the suit as Iron Man, and Tony as the mechanic. Then there's the way Tony uses his suit as a shell to protect himself from the outside world; because he's only human, but in the suit he's like a god; how when he's remembering "New York", the focus is on his powered down suit as he helplessly plummets; like how he gets his anxiety attack once he realizes his suit might be beyond repair, and only calms down once the kid reminds him that he could build something else.
That's just a subtle hint, just the nudge in the right direction; that he can create the suit, and he can improve on the suit. It shifts his view of himself slightly. Its not the near-death experience, or the fighting; its the feeling that he is nothing without the suit. That the suit is the only thing that can keep him and his loved ones safe.
The ending, where he reiterates that he knows who he is, he's Iron Man... That was just a lovely, understated way to round out the conflict he'd been facing throughout the film. He's come to terms with everything. He doesn't need the core actually embedded in his chest any more; he's confident in himself as a human, not as a super human.
Ahtman wrote: I thought this was well said, and may help with the 'why did he destroy the suits?' question.
The issues in this film were really subtle.
Like the whole "I am Iron Man" bit, that literally all of my friends missed. The way the kid refers to the suit as Iron Man, and Tony as the mechanic. Then there's the way Tony uses his suit as a shell to protect himself from the outside world; because he's only human, but in the suit he's like a god; how when he's remembering "New York", the focus is on his powered down suit as he helplessly plummets; like how he gets his anxiety attack once he realizes his suit might be beyond repair, and only calms down once the kid reminds him that he could build something else.
That's just a subtle hint, just the nudge in the right direction; that he can create the suit, and he can improve on the suit. It shifts his view of himself slightly. Its not the near-death experience, or the fighting; its the feeling that he is nothing without the suit. That the suit is the only thing that can keep him and his loved ones safe.
The ending, where he reiterates that he knows who he is, he's Iron Man... That was just a lovely, understated way to round out the conflict he'd been facing throughout the film. He's come to terms with everything. He doesn't need the core actually embedded in his chest any more; he's confident in himself as a human, not as a super human.
I had a friend who went to the movie and walked out of it thinking Tony Stark would no longer be Iron Man and that someone else would take up the mantel. I wonder how many people missed all that subtly and jumped to the same conclusion.
I was a bit uneasy about the Mandarin twist, but now that you've pointed out it has a connection to the second film (already realized the connection with the first), I wholeheartedly approve. My BIG issue is that they Disney'd the film: they gave him a little kid as a sidekick. "I need help, and I can count on a 10-year old with a potato gun to do everything for me." Very Disney, and it felt wrong. Of course, when the kid asks if Tony is gonna just walk away like the kid's dad, and Tony responds "Yup", well, it made the kid scenes tolerable. Still...bad Disney! Bad! Sleep in the corner, you awful mouse!
Good overall film, it was a lot of fun. In addition to the Extremis storyline, I also got shades of the Five Nightmares arc. Now, time to nitpick!
Ahtman wrote: I thought this was well said, and may help with the 'why did he destroy the suits?' question.
The issues in this film were really subtle.
Like the whole "I am Iron Man" bit, that literally all of my friends missed. The way the kid refers to the suit as Iron Man, and Tony as the mechanic. Then there's the way Tony uses his suit as a shell to protect himself from the outside world; because he's only human, but in the suit he's like a god; how when he's remembering "New York", the focus is on his powered down suit as he helplessly plummets; like how he gets his anxiety attack once he realizes his suit might be beyond repair, and only calms down once the kid reminds him that he could build something else.
That's just a subtle hint, just the nudge in the right direction; that he can create the suit, and he can improve on the suit. It shifts his view of himself slightly. Its not the near-death experience, or the fighting; its the feeling that he is nothing without the suit. That the suit is the only thing that can keep him and his loved ones safe.
The ending, where he reiterates that he knows who he is, he's Iron Man... That was just a lovely, understated way to round out the conflict he'd been facing throughout the film. He's come to terms with everything. He doesn't need the core actually embedded in his chest any more; he's confident in himself as a human, not as a super human.
...Except that the suit is the only thing that keeps his loved ones safe. If he hadn't had multiple suits stashed away, Tony, Pepper and Rhodey would all have died. And then Tony destroys them all? Maybe he plans to build a new suit. But what will he do in case of a supervillain attack between now and then?
Also, the movie would have been half as long if Tony had prepared for the eventual attack on his home. Especially after he gave the Mandarin his home address. Surely Jarvis has some kind of early detection system that can spot attack helicopters? Or he could just invite Bruce to stay over for a couple days?
Also, is the confrontation between Tony and Killian even a fight? The Iron Man suit can fly and has multiple ranged weapons, vs a guy who has to be within arms reach to do any damage. Could have had Killian in the Iron Patriot suit for a more evenly matched fight... though I guess they already did the "bad guy gets armor" angle in both of the other movies.
Ahtman wrote: I thought this was well said, and may help with the 'why did he destroy the suits?' question.
The issues in this film were really subtle.
Like the whole "I am Iron Man" bit, that literally all of my friends missed. The way the kid refers to the suit as Iron Man, and Tony as the mechanic. Then there's the way Tony uses his suit as a shell to protect himself from the outside world; because he's only human, but in the suit he's like a god; how when he's remembering "New York", the focus is on his powered down suit as he helplessly plummets; like how he gets his anxiety attack once he realizes his suit might be beyond repair, and only calms down once the kid reminds him that he could build something else.
That's just a subtle hint, just the nudge in the right direction; that he can create the suit, and he can improve on the suit. It shifts his view of himself slightly. Its not the near-death experience, or the fighting; its the feeling that he is nothing without the suit. That the suit is the only thing that can keep him and his loved ones safe.
The ending, where he reiterates that he knows who he is, he's Iron Man... That was just a lovely, understated way to round out the conflict he'd been facing throughout the film. He's come to terms with everything. He doesn't need the core actually embedded in his chest any more; he's confident in himself as a human, not as a super human.
I felt let down by the PTSD 'arc'. It had all this build up, and then the kid tells him to build something, and he was cured...... it was very interesting and I was hoping for some character development.
ashrog wrote: ...Except that the suit is the only thing that keeps his loved ones safe. If he hadn't had multiple suits stashed away, Tony, Pepper and Rhodey would all have died. And then Tony destroys them all? Maybe he plans to build a new suit. But what will he do in case of a supervillain attack between now and then?
Stop speaking nonsense. Just because Tony knows his identity is public, knows he has enemies like Vanko and Loki, knows there are hostile aliens and just plain old terrorists it is preposterous he'd keep a suit over a romantic gesture that turns billion dollar hardware into $20 fireworks. I mean, that's almost as stupid as sending three helicopters to kill Iron Man!
ashrog wrote: Also, the movie would have been half as long if Tony had prepared for the eventual attack on his home. Especially after he gave the Mandarin his home address. Surely Jarvis has some kind of early detection system that can spot attack helicopters? Or he could just invite Bruce to stay over for a couple days?
Clearly he put all the radar systems in the suits, duh? And where is someone like Stark going to get defense systems? What he's just gonna build them or something? And I suppose you think he should have had at least one of his 35 AI controlled suits (and it's radar) like on guard duty or something? Or he shouldn't have stayed there? Or he should have had any one of the non prototype fully armed suits there to jump into? Jeez man, you expect him to be some sort of genius!
ashrog wrote: Also, is the confrontation between Tony and Killian even a fight? The Iron Man suit can fly and has multiple ranged weapons, vs a guy who has to be within arms reach to do any damage. Could have had Killian in the Iron Patriot suit for a more evenly matched fight... though I guess they already did the "bad guy gets armor" angle in both of the other movies.
Look, if Tony Stark wants to go hand to hand against a guy who is essentially a Wolverine clone, who are you to argue? Just because he's nigh unkillable and can slice you up with a wave of his hands is no reason to give him a wide berth or result to the cowardly 'well I do have a gun...' mentality. Sif anyone would shoot Wolverine over melee? Tony even had a KNIFE!
Next you'll be complaining that after Tony found the secret international terrorist hideout, and that they had meta humans working for them, and that he had no Iron Man armour AND that they were 800 miles away he should have done something like call SHIELD. Nick Fury (and all the other Avengers) is a hard guy to reach- you think he's just gonna take a call from Tony Stark about the location of a terrorist he's been hunting since Iron Man 2? And I suppose you think that in addition to telling no one, rigging what amounts to a taser, grenades and a silenced pistol and going solo to storm said compound is stupid and needlessly risky? He's Captain Ame- well he's an Avenger so it's the same thing. And no, it doesn't matter he knows there are unkillable super soldiers in there. He's got a frakking taser!
And I suppose you think Killian was a moron for giving Pepper Extremis? How else could he possibly threaten her life and get Tony to work for him? What just hold a gun to her head? Risking blowing her up (because that would REALLY motivate Tony) OR giving her super powers (what's the worst that could happen?) is a far superior choice to the old 'gun to the temple' trick.
Ugh... sorry. I don't mind fantastical technology or minor technical issues but stupid characters just annoy me. The above is sarcasm, just in case anyone didn't get it.
For a real thing to think about ask yourself why Tony would ever build a manned suit again. The technology no longer requires his presence meaning all the accommodations/requirements of a pilot are extraneous and can be devoted to other things and of course the big one- he doesn't have to risk his life (which I'm guessing makes Pepper much happier).
I saw the film on Sunday, and I really enjoyed it. I thought it was definitely better than Iron Man 2 (which I also thought was pretty good). I'm not sure if I like it better than the first Iron Man, but the three films stand together in what I would consider one of the best Marvel trilogies overall, and when combined with the Avengers film, it definitely pushes Iron Man into the top tier of Marvel film characters.
Kojiro wrote: Next you'll be complaining that after Tony found the secret international terrorist hideout, and that they had meta humans working for them, and that he had no Iron Man armour AND that they were 800 miles away he should have done something like call SHIELD. Nick Fury (and all the other Avengers) is a hard guy to reach- you think he's just gonna take a call from Tony Stark about the location of a terrorist he's been hunting since Iron Man 2? And I suppose you think that in addition to telling no one, rigging what amounts to a taser, grenades and a silenced pistol and going solo to storm said compound is stupid and needlessly risky? He's Captain Ame- well he's an Avenger so it's the same thing. And no, it doesn't matter he knows there are unkillable super soldiers in there. He's got a frakking taser!
To be fair, consider Thor. By the time Coulson got to New Mexico, Iron Man 2's plot was done. 'Hey, we've got a giant robot killing people in a town'. Even dropping Stark a call for advice would have been smart. Consider the Incredible Hulk - we've got some gigantic monsters our military hardware can't touch rampaging around New York! Well, maybe we should call Stark... How about - We've got an alien invasion tearing apart New York, and the Avengers are on the way. Should we drop a call to that other guy who runs around in one of Starks suits, but jacked up to 11?
There's been plenty of times already when another character should have been called in and wasn't. And it'll keep happening.
Part of the reason some of the things happened the way they did was because the films aren't shown in a linear order. For instance the night before Tony gets into a fight with Whiplash at Monaco is when the Hulk and the Abomination fight. The two incidents are maybe 12 hours apart.
As I understand it SHIELD didn't get that involved in Iron Man 3 becuase they are, timeline wise, involved in the events of Captain America: The Winter Soldier.
While it may not always be the case, it actually makes sense in this one why Tony wouldn't just call the Avengers either.
1) He is a narcissist. He may be likeable but unless he absolutely has no other options he won't want to ask for help.
2) The mere mention of New York sends him into panic attacks. He is still coming to grips that there are gods and aliens, and that he died momentarily in a wormhole. He isn't exactly jumping to see these guys at the moment. It also makes the post-credits sequence more meaningful as he is able to sit around with one of them without freaking out.
-Loki- wrote: There's been plenty of times already when another character should have been called in and wasn't. And it'll keep happening.
I think there's a profound difference between not being able to get an individual and a massive organisation. Who knows where Stark was when Coulson spotted the Destroyer? Or what mission (or even the operational status of Warmachine- had to be getting upgraded sometime) during Avengers? I could even get behind SHIELD not having an Avenger class person but surely they could send a tactical team at least? And to not even tell them? Or the Department of Homeland Security or even local cops? It's not like his solo raid was imminent- he still goes shopping, knocks up some gadgets and then makes at least a 10 hour drive. But you're right, Rhodes is the most onerous of the people excluded simply because he actually does call him in the film.
My timing may be out but please tell me Rhodes is captured before Tony learns the location of the stronghold? If he's captured after... but then I guess the US military didn't care enough to ask Rhodes 'Where the hell have you been?! The Mandarin is threatening the President! NOW GET ON WITHOUT ANY SECURITY AT ALL!'. Why should Tony try calling his buddy, who has a suit, whose actually job it is to hunt the Mandarin? Crazy talk.
EDIT: Ok that Timeline is actually very cool. It certainly does explain the absence of certain people but alas it doesn't cover post Avengers.
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As far as anyone knew, the mandarin was just an everyday terrorist, no one knew he was using anything super-powered in the explosions. That might mean it didn't fall under S.H.I.E.L.D jurisdiction. Granted, tony's death should have grabbed their attention.
Mr Nobody wrote: As far as anyone knew, the mandarin was just an everyday terrorist, no one knew he was using anything super-powered in the explosions. That might mean it didn't fall under S.H.I.E.L.D jurisdiction. Granted, tony's death should have grabbed their attention.
Except that at the end of IM2 when Stark is rejected by Coulson for the Avengers Initiative we clearly see Coulson is looking at 10 Rings information. Also In IM3 Tony explicitly directs JARVIS to get the SHIELD data on the 10 Rings. SHIELD is most definitely aware of and have been looking into the 10 Rings since well before things started blowing up. These guys existed since IM1- the Mandarin is Stark's Magneto.
I don't think the question was whether SHIELD would have heard or had intel on the Ten Rings, which oblivisiouly they would, but would they think they were in there jurisdiction i.e. metahuman antics. For regular terrorists there is still the CIA and Military.
Ahtman is correct, SHIELD does primarily concern themselves with metahumans over regular affairs. But the Mandarin and his antics are explicitly stated in the film as being puzzling (though the public isn't aware) both in the location of attacks and- which is what will concern SHIELD- the manner of the attacks. They scream 'not a normal weapon' which is exactly when they get involved. They're gonna have some smart people working for them and they're not going to wait until someone uploads shaky video to YouTube to get involved.
Regardless, once Tony knows there's meta humans a) he should be telling *someone* and b) he should not be solo storming the place unarmoured.
Kojiro wrote: Ahtman is correct, SHIELD does primarily concern themselves with metahumans over regular affairs. But the Mandarin and his antics are explicitly stated in the film as being puzzling (though the public isn't aware) both in the location of attacks and- which is what will concern SHIELD- the manner of the attacks. They scream 'not a normal weapon' which is exactly when they get involved. They're gonna have some smart people working for them and they're not going to wait until someone uploads shaky video to YouTube to get involved.
I'm sure they would be looking into it, inasmuch as they would be gathering data like any other investigative body. We also have to recall that outside of Captain America, none of the other Avengers work for SHIELD and aren't just sitting around waiting for a call. Tony, while a member of the Avengers, certainly doesn't feel beholden to SHIELD. I would think Thanos would have to step out of a spaceship to get him to call Fury. It just wouldn't occur to him unless he felt a)completely outmatched and b)unable to handle it himself. SHIELD isn't in charge of these characters, and if they follow the comic arcs such as they have, at some point the Avengers will split with SHIELD as they don't take orders from a government agency.
Kojiro wrote: Regardless, once Tony knows there's meta humans a) he should be telling *someone* and b) he should not be solo storming the place unarmoured.
That is assuming that Tony isn't an infallible human being prone to pride, overestimating ones abilities, and errors of judgement. I think it makes sense that he doesn't call for more help then War Machine, but it will be hard to justify it every time I imagine.
I'm sure they would be looking into it, inasmuch as they would be gathering data like any other investigative body. We also have to recall that outside of Captain America, none of the other Avengers work for SHIELD and aren't just sitting around waiting for a call.
Black Widow and Hawkeye both work for SHIELD and that's just the people we know about. And they have thousands of field agents.
Tony, while a member of the Avengers, certainly doesn't feel beholden to SHIELD. I would think Thanos would have to step out of a spaceship to get him to call Fury. It just wouldn't occur to him unless he felt a)completely outmatched and b)unable to handle it himself.
But he *should* feel completely outmatched and unable- at least until he gets a suit. Given he doesn't know of Rhodes or Pepper's abductions his need to drive all night and create weapons is bizarre. I mean he arrives there what, 10 minutes before his suit can finish charging and fly over there? Sure, grab your suits and go nuts. It's the unarmoured assault that is completely bat crap insane. And it appears to be for nothing since they suit comes flying in 10 mins later. He had it on a timer even so there's no excuse for him not knowing the window.
SHIELD isn't in charge of these characters, and if they follow the comic arcs such as they have, at some point the Avengers will split with SHIELD as they don't take orders from a government agency.
That's actually a really interesting thing you bring up because movie SHIELD isn't a government body. They answer to the multinational council (Whedon I believe didn't want they to come off as a branch of the US government).
That is assuming that Tony isn't an infallible human being prone to pride, overestimating ones abilities, and errors of judgement. I think it makes sense that he doesn't call for more help then War Machine, but it will be hard to justify it every time I imagine.
Given the theme of the movie- that Stark is struggling with what happened to him and his own near death/mortality- his choice is very odd. And overestimating is one thing. Overestimating is thinking you can beat Captain America in hand to hand. It's utter stupidity to believe you can defeat a bunch of Extremis with a taser.
I also thought that as th film progresses and the real people behind the Madarin becoem clearer - Tony might have considered that at least some elements of SHIELD knew all about it. Just because he uses their info I don;t think he trusts them or indeed gets the info directly- See the Avengers film.............
Currently only Cap A, Haweye and Black Widow work for Shield, the others are free agents and when together would go under the "Avengers" - as Tony says when with Loki - "thats what we call ourselves these days"
It it is a problem with comics and films alike that the more there is a variety of charcters that are not in a film/comic when they really should be you have to wonder why.
In this one, well my thoughts?
Thor - well he's off planet presumably moping after Natalie
Cap - Can't see Stark calling him in with his ego.
Black Widow/Hawkeye - on some secret mission and unreachable.
Hulk - hmm more difficult as they seem pretty pally and he would have been a great bodyguard for Pepper after the attack - maybe he had popped back to tibet for a rest or something.
SHIELD - Tony does not trust them at all and may have thought they were at least aware of the military programme to create Extremis
As far as Tony storming the place without armor: it makes sense if you consider the existential crisis he is going through at the time. He starts the film thinking that the suit is the hero, and he is just some guy unable to do anything. Going solo (without the suit) is part of his realization that he is just as important, if not more so, than the suit.
The movie really has two heroes: Tony Stark, the guy with ideas and the skills to build the suits. And then the suits themselves. Both fight a significant portion of the movie alone, and both are weaker when they do. Stark gets hurt and locked up, the suits get destroyed. Lots of people are wearing suits in this movie (and other movies) and none are as good as Stark when he wears the suit. There is also an underlying theme of Stark trying to get to his suit, and of the suit trying to get to Stark.
That is the realization at the end of the movie: Stark is "the mechanic", the suit is the suit, but together they are Ironman. One can't exist without the other.
d-usa wrote: As far as Tony storming the place without armor: it makes sense if you consider the existential crisis he is going through at the time. He starts the film thinking that the suit is the hero, and he is just some guy unable to do anything. Going solo (without the suit) is part of his realization that he is just as important, if not more so, than the suit.
The movie really has two heroes: Tony Stark, the guy with ideas and the skills to build the suits. And then the suits themselves. Both fight a significant portion of the movie alone, and both are weaker when they do. Stark gets hurt and locked up, the suits get destroyed. Lots of people are wearing suits in this movie (and other movies) and none are as good as Stark when he wears the suit. There is also an underlying theme of Stark trying to get to his suit, and of the suit trying to get to Stark.
That is the realization at the end of the movie: Stark is "the mechanic", the suit is the suit, but together they are Ironman. One can't exist without the other.
Yep... that's how I took it too...
Of all things in this movie, I'm still bothered by the apparent fire-proofed clothing that Pepper Potts was wearing.
Mannahnin wrote: Tony running into the place on his own with a couple of gadgets was dumb. But it's super-hero-movie dumb, and I could get past it.
heh... I thought that part was cool.
If you can believe someone can build the iron man suit... then, it's not THAT much of a stretch of the imagination that he can strap those gadgets on himself to take out the goonies.
Let’s talk a bit about THE MANDARIN now. If IRON MAN 3 has an element that is able to dynamically piss off fans of IRON MAN, it will be how most take in Ben Kingsley’s performance of this character. There’s a twist and reveal that changes everything that you’re expecting with this character. But that first twist when Tony meets him… I feel is not the only twist. And I have to talk about it in this review. Because in many ways it is incredibly intriguing to me.
The mere fact that one of the rings he’s wearing has the same symbol as Faran Tahir’s Raza – and we know that he was a part of an organization that was referred to as TEN RINGS – which we all took as being a reference to The Mandarin. Now in this film – we’re given a whole bunch of misdirection with The Mandarin. He’s given several names in the film. THE MANDARIN is his outward Television Terrorist persona. In private, Killian and all of Killian’s men refer to him as The Master, which also seems to be the security’s codename for The Mandarin as he is being transported and moved.
Then there’s who Tony Stark finds coming out of a bathroom to bed two beauties he found in the Mandarin’s chambers. Tony has the drop on him – and suddenly he’s an actor playing the part of the Mandarin. He’s laid back actor – who claims he’s being used to create a character for Killian. Tony wants to believe this immediately cuz Killian has engaged Pepper – and Tony does have jealousy issues regarding Ms Potts. Ben Kingsley’s performance as the Mandarin for the television threats is very deliberate and dramatic. As The Master – we never actually see him become The Master… except once, I feel. After Tony has been taken out of the room – and he’s asked by Killian and I believe it was James Dale’s Savin about what information he gave Stark… This is where I see a third persona – the most guarded of them all… He’s laughing about the whole situation, but when asked – his eyes get a completely different look – his voice becomes colder and he smiles and then the tone of his voice shifts… and he gets a serious look on his face, while smiling inside satisfied with himself.
Later, when he’s being interrogated by Rhodes and Stark, he gives them the Vice President as a clue. This is still really giving them nothing, they think the Vice President is in danger. This is actually misdirection that The Mandarin has given them. But let me ask you this… Why, in private, would Killian call a down on his luck actor, MASTER? Where did Killian and Maya get the money to finance their Extremis work? Perhaps The Master/The Mandarin has set in motion a second salvo at Tony. His men captured him in Afganistan and now this.
If Marvel is playing The Mandarin as I suspect – we will have a scene where Tony stumbles straight into a situation where he feels completely safe in his presence… and Kapow.
Sure, that’s all theory and hypothesis on my part, but pay very close attention to what Kingsley is doing with the role – there’s sub-text and layers to this performance and nothing is by chance. In many ways this could be the very embodiment of everything that Liam Neeson was trying to teach a young Bruce Wayne in BATMAN BEGINS. Theatricality & Deception. The Master indeed.
Let’s talk a bit about THE MANDARIN now. If IRON MAN 3 has an element that is able to dynamically piss off fans of IRON MAN, it will be how most take in Ben Kingsley’s performance of this character. There’s a twist and reveal that changes everything that you’re expecting with this character. But that first twist when Tony meets him… I feel is not the only twist. And I have to talk about it in this review. Because in many ways it is incredibly intriguing to me.
The mere fact that one of the rings he’s wearing has the same symbol as Faran Tahir’s Raza – and we know that he was a part of an organization that was referred to as TEN RINGS – which we all took as being a reference to The Mandarin. Now in this film – we’re given a whole bunch of misdirection with The Mandarin. He’s given several names in the film. THE MANDARIN is his outward Television Terrorist persona. In private, Killian and all of Killian’s men refer to him as The Master, which also seems to be the security’s codename for The Mandarin as he is being transported and moved.
Then there’s who Tony Stark finds coming out of a bathroom to bed two beauties he found in the Mandarin’s chambers. Tony has the drop on him – and suddenly he’s an actor playing the part of the Mandarin. He’s laid back actor – who claims he’s being used to create a character for Killian. Tony wants to believe this immediately cuz Killian has engaged Pepper – and Tony does have jealousy issues regarding Ms Potts. Ben Kingsley’s performance as the Mandarin for the television threats is very deliberate and dramatic. As The Master – we never actually see him become The Master… except once, I feel. After Tony has been taken out of the room – and he’s asked by Killian and I believe it was James Dale’s Savin about what information he gave Stark… This is where I see a third persona – the most guarded of them all… He’s laughing about the whole situation, but when asked – his eyes get a completely different look – his voice becomes colder and he smiles and then the tone of his voice shifts… and he gets a serious look on his face, while smiling inside satisfied with himself.
Later, when he’s being interrogated by Rhodes and Stark, he gives them the Vice President as a clue. This is still really giving them nothing, they think the Vice President is in danger. This is actually misdirection that The Mandarin has given them. But let me ask you this… Why, in private, would Killian call a down on his luck actor, MASTER? Where did Killian and Maya get the money to finance their Extremis work? Perhaps The Master/The Mandarin has set in motion a second salvo at Tony. His men captured him in Afganistan and now this.
If Marvel is playing The Mandarin as I suspect – we will have a scene where Tony stumbles straight into a situation where he feels completely safe in his presence… and Kapow.
Sure, that’s all theory and hypothesis on my part, but pay very close attention to what Kingsley is doing with the role – there’s sub-text and layers to this performance and nothing is by chance. In many ways this could be the very embodiment of everything that Liam Neeson was trying to teach a young Bruce Wayne in BATMAN BEGINS. Theatricality & Deception. The Master indeed.
That's an interesting interpretation, and it might be kind of cool if they took that plot twist and twisted it back like that in a later Iron Man film.
Let’s talk a bit about THE MANDARIN now. If IRON MAN 3 has an element that is able to dynamically piss off fans of IRON MAN, it will be how most take in Ben Kingsley’s performance of this character. There’s a twist and reveal that changes everything that you’re expecting with this character. But that first twist when Tony meets him… I feel is not the only twist. And I have to talk about it in this review. Because in many ways it is incredibly intriguing to me.
The mere fact that one of the rings he’s wearing has the same symbol as Faran Tahir’s Raza – and we know that he was a part of an organization that was referred to as TEN RINGS – which we all took as being a reference to The Mandarin. Now in this film – we’re given a whole bunch of misdirection with The Mandarin. He’s given several names in the film. THE MANDARIN is his outward Television Terrorist persona. In private, Killian and all of Killian’s men refer to him as The Master, which also seems to be the security’s codename for The Mandarin as he is being transported and moved.
Then there’s who Tony Stark finds coming out of a bathroom to bed two beauties he found in the Mandarin’s chambers. Tony has the drop on him – and suddenly he’s an actor playing the part of the Mandarin. He’s laid back actor – who claims he’s being used to create a character for Killian. Tony wants to believe this immediately cuz Killian has engaged Pepper – and Tony does have jealousy issues regarding Ms Potts. Ben Kingsley’s performance as the Mandarin for the television threats is very deliberate and dramatic. As The Master – we never actually see him become The Master… except once, I feel. After Tony has been taken out of the room – and he’s asked by Killian and I believe it was James Dale’s Savin about what information he gave Stark… This is where I see a third persona – the most guarded of them all… He’s laughing about the whole situation, but when asked – his eyes get a completely different look – his voice becomes colder and he smiles and then the tone of his voice shifts… and he gets a serious look on his face, while smiling inside satisfied with himself.
Later, when he’s being interrogated by Rhodes and Stark, he gives them the Vice President as a clue. This is still really giving them nothing, they think the Vice President is in danger. This is actually misdirection that The Mandarin has given them. But let me ask you this… Why, in private, would Killian call a down on his luck actor, MASTER? Where did Killian and Maya get the money to finance their Extremis work? Perhaps The Master/The Mandarin has set in motion a second salvo at Tony. His men captured him in Afganistan and now this.
If Marvel is playing The Mandarin as I suspect – we will have a scene where Tony stumbles straight into a situation where he feels completely safe in his presence… and Kapow.
Sure, that’s all theory and hypothesis on my part, but pay very close attention to what Kingsley is doing with the role – there’s sub-text and layers to this performance and nothing is by chance. In many ways this could be the very embodiment of everything that Liam Neeson was trying to teach a young Bruce Wayne in BATMAN BEGINS. Theatricality & Deception. The Master indeed.
That's an interesting interpretation, and it might be kind of cool if they took that plot twist and twisted it back like that in a later Iron Man film.
Because Killian wasn't just decieving the public, he was also decieving the people making the videos. If people were to actually know that he was a down on his luck actor, the word would spread. Minimizing the number of people that know the secret lowers the risk of it getting out.
Let’s talk a bit about THE MANDARIN now. If IRON MAN 3 has an element that is able to dynamically piss off fans of IRON MAN, it will be how most take in Ben Kingsley’s performance of this character. There’s a twist and reveal that changes everything that you’re expecting with this character. But that first twist when Tony meets him… I feel is not the only twist. And I have to talk about it in this review. Because in many ways it is incredibly intriguing to me.
The mere fact that one of the rings he’s wearing has the same symbol as Faran Tahir’s Raza – and we know that he was a part of an organization that was referred to as TEN RINGS – which we all took as being a reference to The Mandarin. Now in this film – we’re given a whole bunch of misdirection with The Mandarin. He’s given several names in the film. THE MANDARIN is his outward Television Terrorist persona. In private, Killian and all of Killian’s men refer to him as The Master, which also seems to be the security’s codename for The Mandarin as he is being transported and moved.
Then there’s who Tony Stark finds coming out of a bathroom to bed two beauties he found in the Mandarin’s chambers. Tony has the drop on him – and suddenly he’s an actor playing the part of the Mandarin. He’s laid back actor – who claims he’s being used to create a character for Killian. Tony wants to believe this immediately cuz Killian has engaged Pepper – and Tony does have jealousy issues regarding Ms Potts. Ben Kingsley’s performance as the Mandarin for the television threats is very deliberate and dramatic. As The Master – we never actually see him become The Master… except once, I feel. After Tony has been taken out of the room – and he’s asked by Killian and I believe it was James Dale’s Savin about what information he gave Stark… This is where I see a third persona – the most guarded of them all… He’s laughing about the whole situation, but when asked – his eyes get a completely different look – his voice becomes colder and he smiles and then the tone of his voice shifts… and he gets a serious look on his face, while smiling inside satisfied with himself.
Later, when he’s being interrogated by Rhodes and Stark, he gives them the Vice President as a clue. This is still really giving them nothing, they think the Vice President is in danger. This is actually misdirection that The Mandarin has given them. But let me ask you this… Why, in private, would Killian call a down on his luck actor, MASTER? Where did Killian and Maya get the money to finance their Extremis work? Perhaps The Master/The Mandarin has set in motion a second salvo at Tony. His men captured him in Afganistan and now this.
If Marvel is playing The Mandarin as I suspect – we will have a scene where Tony stumbles straight into a situation where he feels completely safe in his presence… and Kapow.
Sure, that’s all theory and hypothesis on my part, but pay very close attention to what Kingsley is doing with the role – there’s sub-text and layers to this performance and nothing is by chance. In many ways this could be the very embodiment of everything that Liam Neeson was trying to teach a young Bruce Wayne in BATMAN BEGINS. Theatricality & Deception. The Master indeed.
That's an interesting interpretation, and it might be kind of cool if they took that plot twist and twisted it back like that in a later Iron Man film.
Because Killian wasn't just decieving the public, he was also decieving the people making the videos. If people were to actually know that he was a down on his luck actor, the word would spread. Minimizing the number of people that know the secret lowers the risk of it getting out.
And yet, the bodyguards and hookers in the mansion were obviously allowed to know the secret. Admittedly, trying to find logical answers for every possibility in a movie is challenging enough, but in a comic book movie, it can be near impossible. It is an interesting theory, but perhaps a bit of wishful thinking in hoping to see Ben Kingsley's masterful performance again.
whembly wrote: If you can believe someone can build the iron man suit... then, it's not THAT much of a stretch of the imagination that he can strap those gadgets on himself to take out the goonies.
I don't know how you get from 'genius mechanical engineer' to 'super ninja infiltrator'. But regardless, the blunder here isn't that he can take out a few regular dudes with guns. it's the repeated director fiat. Stark is smart enough- especially having tangled with two of them and seen the research footage- to know that he simply is no match for an Extremis trooper except under the luckiest of circumstances. This is in the same way no one with half a brain would send three choppers to kill Iron Man- it just ain't gonna do the job. You need some foreknowledge the characters wouldn't have that your target will be acting like a moron. For the Mandarin it's 'Tony won't have any defenses or functional suits available' and for Tony it's 'The terrorist leader with super soldiers will employ none of them in his own defense'. Both attacks might succeed if the target isn't expecting the attack but Tony knows something is coming and the Mandarin/Killian is well aware he's America's Most Wanted- both of them should be hyper vigilant but neither utilise the clear and obvious defensive options. That this occurs twice is hilariously bad writing, and the corollary of those examples is that both of them should know their attack is doomed.
OK I really enjoyed it, but it could have been the three rum and cokes and two crown royals I had while watching it. Although enjoyable there seemed to be serious jump the shark moments. Er why…
Spoiler:
*Why did he try to off Iron Man, when he wants to hire Iron Man to finish the Project?
*Why does he have the whole Mandarin terrorist thing in the first place?
*Why is he hiding? This guy has a breakthrough that can apparently repair limbs and heal bodies. If you can reknit tissue, maybe you can cure genetic diseases and cancer too? He would be hailed a hero by generations. Think about it, the movie basically shows the dawn of immortality for mankind. Next to that Iron Man aint gak.
*Why did he give it to Pepper?
*Why is Iron Man not shooting the BGs up instead attempting close strafing? I mean, they fly and all.
whembly wrote: If you can believe someone can build the iron man suit... then, it's not THAT much of a stretch of the imagination that he can strap those gadgets on himself to take out the goonies.
I don't know how you get from 'genius mechanical engineer' to 'super ninja infiltrator'. But regardless, the blunder here isn't that he can take out a few regular dudes with guns. it's the repeated director fiat. Stark is smart enough- especially having tangled with two of them and seen the research footage- to know that he simply is no match for an Extremis trooper except under the luckiest of circumstances. This is in the same way no one with half a brain would send three choppers to kill Iron Man- it just ain't gonna do the job. You need some foreknowledge the characters wouldn't have that your target will be acting like a moron. For the Mandarin it's 'Tony won't have any defenses or functional suits available' and for Tony it's 'The terrorist leader with super soldiers will employ none of them in his own defense'. Both attacks might succeed if the target isn't expecting the attack but Tony knows something is coming and the Mandarin/Killian is well aware he's America's Most Wanted- both of them should be hyper vigilant but neither utilise the clear and obvious defensive options. That this occurs twice is hilariously bad writing, and the corollary of those examples is that both of them should know their attack is doomed.
It was a standard action movie infiltration by the main lead actor into the enemy base - reality does not come into it never has in dozens of films.
Tony's ego is pretty legendary and so his complacency so sending the choppers was a gamble but again I am not sure if they were even bothered if it worked or not – it’s a part of the campaign to promote the terrorist organisation as a viable threat enabling the real bad guy to get all his defence funding… Also Pepper is very unhappy about the whole thing with broadcasting the challenge and they are all about to leave for a safer location when the choppers attack
Killian is a classic bad guy (and also going mad as the film progresses) and is assuming that is never going to be found.
Using Extremis as a Cure all – well it does have a quite a bad side effect of people blowing up……….in massive explosions – not sure that would get through all the medical hoops to be cleared as a viable drug.
Mr Morden wrote: Using Extremis as a Cure all – well it does have a quite a bad side effect of people blowing up……….in massive explosions – not sure that would get through all the medical hoops to be cleared as a viable drug.
Don't forget that only the ones that survive the process have to worry about blowing up. Dieing is a pretty harsh side effect as well.
I saw it over the weekend. I quite liked it. Naturally I ignored the truly gaping plot holes as I do with 99% of movies.
This had a good feel. It was also nice that for once the bad guys weren't wearing suits too....
I could see Avengers 2 being Iron Man's last film though. Downey doesn't need the boost anymore even though getting in shape isn't as bad for him as it is for Hemsworth and Evans it's still pretty harsh on a dude his age.
Hulksmash wrote: Naturally I ignored the truly gaping plot holes as I do with 99% of movies.
Considering 99% of the time people misuse that term I'd be curious as to what you think were plot holes. Remember, a plot hole is something that goes against the internal consistency of the diegesis set within a narrative, not an error or 'something I didn't like'. The classic example being that in Fantastic Voyage they have to leave the body in X hours because the shrinking process wears of and they return to normal size, and at the end of the film they abandon the ship inside the guy and swim out, at which point they regrow. The plot hole being that the ship still has to return to normal size and was left inside they man, but it didn't do so.
Internal consistancy. Bear in mind this is a movie tied into a movie universe. A universe that includes a fair number of other movies.
Also bear in mind that by ignore 99% of glaring plot holes means I'm fully involved in suspesion of disbelief. Which fills in many of those plot holes just by nature.
When has Iron Man ever gone one on one with people outside of his suit? Doesn't happen. Did in this movie. That's not a dislike, that's contrary to the character's previous actions and contrary to his established character.
This may not be a plot hole but the ability to throw the suit onto Pepper. Seemed like he needed the wiring to get it to work on himself but nothing for Pepper.
Flame hands being hot enough to melt armor one second and suddenly not hot enough in the next scene (excluding the controlled burn scene with Iron Patriot). If they can glow hot enough to melt the metal in Iron Man's suits and slice through it how are they even fighting in hand to hand.
Shooting the cheif scientist (as mentioned earlier) thereby requiring Stark to "fix" the virus thing.
Hell, somehow not having a tracking Id on your lead scientist and attacking the house that the only two people in the world likely to be able to fix the virus thing are located at the same time.
Still not sure how an explosion kills the stump armed girl but doesn't kill the other agent or Killian. Especially when the explosions they survived were much more powerful.
Let's not even get into three helicopters shooting up a mansion in Malibu between numerous flight bases in SoCal and there being no military response.
Let's leave out that they don't even infer why he doesn't call in support once he realizes what he's dealing with. That could be attributed to his ego.
I suspend disbelief because I'm in a movie to have a good time. Not pull it apart. As, with most novels, movies just don't stand up to that kind of critique. I enjoyed Iron Man 3. It just had quite a few plot holes that would be pretty glaring if I didn't enjoy the genre or the actors in the film so much.
All that said none compare to Serenity when being in space means you still have to fly in a straight line.....
Suits blow up far too easily, otherwise I enjoyed it.
I think the thing I liked about the previous films the most (and the Avengers) was the Iron Man's suit stood up to many things and kept going. These one just fall apart at the drop of a hat.
The Panic attack things were pretty lame too.
Look at how much punishment the Suitcase Suit takes and it still functions normally.
Avengers introduces the MK7 for the final battle. The prototype 'pieces' armour is the MK42.
It's also worth noting that the Iron Patriot/Warmachine armour is actually meant to be the Iron Man Mk2, up armoured. If you actually look at the suits it's clear that the IM3 Iron Patriot is a completely new suit, but that means one of two things: either Tony has started building suits for the US military or the US military can now build their own suits. Since the former is abhorrent to him (it would be arms dealing again) it must be the latter but that means that Iron Man is now just another piece of hardware. But the MK2 required a full staging platform and like six robot arms to get into/out of and good as Stark is you can't simply backwards engineer the IM3 'step in/out' opening into exiting suits. That kind of feature is either in there from the start or it's not.
Either way now they have to justify the 'not a drone' path. 'Sure I could build a suit and risk my life. But seeing as how the last time I did it was hellishly traumatic, I nearly died and left me with PTSD I think I'll just build remote drones. Also Pepper doesn't yell at me.'
I'm actually starting to think the RDJ has influenced the ending to 'retire' Iron Man. At least he'll be retired unless Marvel (I guess Disney) shells out another $50 million for him to appear in Avengers 2. Much as I like RDJ as Iron Man if that's the case I almost hope they do replace him or Joss Whedon simply ignores him in A2 ("Why isn't Stark here?" "Oh he retired. But he sent some drones!")
Iron Patriot isn't a new suit, but an upgrade of the old one. The military didn't build a new suit, they just made some adjustments. It is even said two or three times it was upgraded.
Ahtman wrote: Iron Patriot isn't a new suit, but an upgrade of the old one. The military didn't build a new suit, they just made some adjustments. It is even said two or three times it was upgraded.
I know they say that but look at those two very different suits. Iron Patriot features a new exterior, which includes a new weapons line up, and armour plates that were once solid are now split. It features a new internal structure, instead of the solid mesh type old one, which can split apart both at the front and back. The UI is also noticeably different to it's original (replaced after Vanko's hack no doubt, though you must wonder how well it works lacking JARVIS). You could argue the new power core, which is square, is the same old reactor but it does appear different. It's a new suit that at best salvages some older parts.
The line is in there to try and draw a connection- that this is the suit Rhodes got from IM2. It then clumsily tries to foist off the idea that despite being utterly unlike either of the previous two appearances in either form or function, it's the same armour. Oh and by the way it now has a completely impossible to integrate feature essential to the plot. I mean FFS they even say the military has upgraded it- not Stark (remember he's no military contractor now). What a fortunate coincidence they happen to develop and incorporate the very same jump in/out technology Stark has just started putting into his suits.
I just saw it. It isnt very strong.
Ok, So he created the mandarin to cover up his failures, OK that makes sense, But why make it so public. He seems to have another agenda to that in which it is destroying america. He kills an accountant and kidnaps the president with the line "And thanks to you not a single fat cat saw a day in court" HE seems to not like capitalism. But it isnt pointed out WHY!!!!!
And the mandarin didnt need to be so public, he could have just kept using it to make him a shadowy figure, A terrorist people only have the faintest idea of. The attack on the mansion made no sense later on because that just made tony angrier while not serving their interests, to make extremis legal.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I just saw it. It isnt very strong.
Ok, So he created the mandarin to cover up his failures, OK that makes sense, But why make it so public.
Becuase the bombings were public. People tend to notice when a bomb goes off in the middle of Cleveland. Just kidding, no one would notice that.
hotsauceman1 wrote: But in a world where a man flies around in armor with the most advance tech possible it is kinda stupid
Becuase Iron Man exists people wouldn't notice nine (I think it was nine) public bombings? Not sure if that counted blowing up a landmark like Mann;s Chinese Theater either. Just because Iron Man exists doesn't mean that people don't notice terrorism anymore, and if you are accidently bombing places while trying to keep a low profile, it makes sense to come up with a cover story to keep everyone from knowing the real reason for the explosions.
What im saying is this. He should not have beem public with the mandarin. Eventually people would connect the dots and find out what is going on. Then destroying of starks house was a stupid move
Kojiro wrote: Avengers introduces the MK7 for the final battle. The prototype 'pieces' armour is the MK42.
It's also worth noting that the Iron Patriot/Warmachine armour is actually meant to be the Iron Man Mk2, up armoured. If you actually look at the suits it's clear that the IM3 Iron Patriot is a completely new suit, but that means one of two things: either Tony has started building suits for the US military or the US military can now build their own suits. Since the former is abhorrent to him (it would be arms dealing again) it must be the latter but that means that Iron Man is now just another piece of hardware. But the MK2 required a full staging platform and like six robot arms to get into/out of and good as Stark is you can't simply backwards engineer the IM3 'step in/out' opening into exiting suits. That kind of feature is either in there from the start or it's not.
Either way now they have to justify the 'not a drone' path. 'Sure I could build a suit and risk my life. But seeing as how the last time I did it was hellishly traumatic, I nearly died and left me with PTSD I think I'll just build remote drones. Also Pepper doesn't yell at me.'
I'm actually starting to think the RDJ has influenced the ending to 'retire' Iron Man. At least he'll be retired unless Marvel (I guess Disney) shells out another $50 million for him to appear in Avengers 2. Much as I like RDJ as Iron Man if that's the case I almost hope they do replace him or Joss Whedon simply ignores him in A2 ("Why isn't Stark here?" "Oh he retired. But he sent some drones!")
He has a contract. He WILL be in avengers 2. RDJ likely had zero influence on the story. Just because he blew up his suits doesn't mean he wont make another one.
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hotsauceman1 wrote: What im saying is this. He should not have beem public with the mandarin. Eventually people would connect the dots and find out what is going on. Then destroying of starks house was a stupid move
Its best not to question the logic of superhero movies, you WILL find holes in all of them. Just have fun
There's nothing stopping Tony from giving his suits a power supply that isn't his heart. Not sure why people get so caught up on that XD We've already seen his suits operate without his heart's arc reactor.
) but I guess Gwyneth was not keen............
-- for the end fight. They seemed to just set sail and then wind up there ..?
