21810
Post by: Rinkydink
Whilst I am certainly enjoying the fact GW seems to have increased its output in term of releases - With Eldar imminent, that makes 5 factions since 6th Ed. hit - CSM, DA, Daemons, Tau and now Eldar.
- I am a little concerned that Giant MC's seem to be the way of things to come. Do you think this trend will continue with each subsequent release? Bigger and bigger MC's for the foreseeable future? The once all powerful Carnifex must be quaking in his paltry 60mm based, hoofed boots.
For a while, I though flyers would be the prevalent release, but heck, what do I know?
Mods: Please move to 40k discussion...
8742
Post by: MeanGreenStompa
I think GW, in a panic to up profit, has just stopped renewing old models for the forseeable or at least, utterly minimizing it and so they must only make new units. We are seeing this in both Fantasy (no new spearmen for elves, just bizarre flying stuff, no new marauders for chaos, just a GIANT monster and random large stuff) and now 40k (giant walker time).
Producing new versions of old minis reduces the potential for sales, producing utterly new units 'forces' old players with complete armies to go out and add to them with these new units.
GW feels like it's starting to thrash about a bit as the level in the waterhole is dropping, I sense some more desperate moves to up it's return to shareholders (Kirby).
I don't think these are healthy signs for the company. I think perhaps the upper echelons considered the total rejigging of Grey Knights, Dark Eldar and Necrons to be highly expensive and so are holding off with other ranges for now.
20665
Post by: Dais
Large plastic models are what GW does best. Those big models are usually the coolest things in the army ranges as well. I can't see them not utilizing this core competency in some way. I doubt every faction will get a big robot but new tanks, flyers, and walkers of some kind are almost a guarantee.
57935
Post by: Samurai_Eduh
Why would GW bother to update old troop models when most people take only minimal troops? When was the last time you saw a real tournament list with more than the minimum? Necrons are the worst with 2-3 units of five models in most competetive lists.
8922
Post by: ironicsilence
each codex will continue to bring a sexy new bigger model with a hefty price tag on it, this drives profit
20392
Post by: Farseer Faenyin
I wonder if they'll continue this idea with the upcoming Apocalypse release. Would be actually NICE in this case to see large plastic models.
Instead of paying Apoc-model prices for my Eldar Wraithknight.
65784
Post by: Mr.Omega
 Samurai_Eduh wrote:Why would GW bother to update old troop models when most people take only minimal troops? When was the last time you saw a real tournament list with more than the minimum? Necrons are the worst with 2-3 units of five models in most competetive lists.
Have you actually ever played at a tournament?
Many competitive lists rely on 3-4 minimum troop choices for strong list structure and objective capturing capability. Guard and Orks will probably be putting quite a large amount of points into troops choices, Nids may be investing in multiple Tervigons, all Marine codex's will have competitive lists with at least 3 troops choices and probably 4+ in some form of transport.. Dark Eldar and Grey Knights have a few lists where they spam or take 4+ troop choices to great effect, e.g Venom and henchmen/purifiers in Psy Razorbacks.
64821
Post by: Tycho
- I am a little concerned that Giant MC's seem to be the way of things to come. Do you think this trend will continue with each subsequent release? Bigger and bigger MC's for the foreseeable future? The once all powerful Carnifex must be quaking in his paltry 60mm based, hoofed boots.
So CSM got the Fiends and Tau got the Riptide. Chaos Demons didn't get anything (in terms of MCs) that they didn't already have and DA got nothing in terms of MCs. So that's two out of four codexes. I'm not sure that's enough of a track record to claim that it's all about the MC's now, so I really can't see it being "The way of the future".
Obviously all of the new armies will get pricey new flier kits, but that's not quite the same thing as a MC ...
54708
Post by: TheCustomLime
I wonder what the Imperial Guard will get in terms of a big walker. I hope it's something like the power loader!
40344
Post by: master of ordinance
 TheCustomLime wrote:I wonder what the Imperial Guard will get in terms of a big walker. I hope it's something like the power loader!
Im hoping for something like this: 
73757
Post by: 775B53
Do you know why this happened?
It's because of the leech companies like Chapterhouse that you people love so much. GW is now forced to release new kits right from the start to pre-empt any copyright infringement. It is basically Chapterhouse's fault that we never get core/existing units updated anymore. The only other option for them would be not to make any new units at all, in which case this thread here would be replaced with "Waaaaahh why doesn't GW release new units? they have no originality."
Combine this with their new fast production schedule (which people have been asking for for years and are now complaining about) and you can see how some pieces end up rushed.
12313
Post by: Ouze
Waaah, why are these tiny 2 person startups picking on my favored multi-million dollar global corporation!
775B53 wrote: The only other option for them would be not to make any new units at all, in which case this thread here would be replaced with "Waaaaahh why doesn't GW release new units? they have no originality."
Is that? Is that the only other option?
775B53 wrote: Combine this with their new fast production schedule (which people have been asking for for years and are now complaining about) and you can see how some pieces end up rushed.
"Well, they want them fast, the only choice we have is to half-ass it, right?"
16876
Post by: BlueDagger
 Ouze wrote:Waaah, why are these tiny 2 person startups picking on my favored multi-million dollar global corporation!
775B53 wrote: The only other option for them would be not to make any new units at all, in which case this thread here would be replaced with "Waaaaahh why doesn't GW release new units? they have no originality."
Is that? Is that the only other option?
775B53 wrote: Combine this with their new fast production schedule (which people have been asking for for years and are now complaining about) and you can see how some pieces end up rushed.
"Well, they want them fast, the only choice we have is to half-ass it, right?"
QFT
You have to be kidding me that you (775b aka guy that has never posted before now) think chapterhouse and kits manufacturers are to blame for GW pricing a single new model at a $115 price tag. If anything MORE people will buy 2nd hand making items when faced with ridiculous prices. Offer me a Wraithknight at 50-60 bucks? Cool I'll pick up 2-3. Offer me 1 wraith knight at $115? Cool let me start looking for a counts as.
71201
Post by: JWhex
Many of the troop selections in fantasy and 40k have relatively modern sculpts. I prefer for GW NOT to update these too often to slow down the scale creep.
Also, even models that have been around for awhile are new to new players anyway. I dont particularly like the large robots invading the 40k table top I think they look awkward and kind of diminish the look of the game to me.
42646
Post by: Korraz
Beastmen: Got slightly updated cores the last time, so I think they are fine.
Bretonnia: Are fine, in my opinion.
Demons: New core a book ago.
Dark Elves: Horrible, old core.
Dwarfs: Got updated core. Look decent, but are barely customizable.
High Elves: Horrible, horrible core.
Lizardmen: Decent, if very bland and uniform.
Ogres: Fine, but also suffer from monopose.
Orcs and Goblins: Both the Orcs and the Goblins are ancient, the Nightgoblins are fine.
Skaven: Fantastic, new cores
Empire: New, but horrible cores. Honestly, those plastics are a disgrace, since most of the detail is badly cast and parts of the models are simply intolerable in terms of quality. I have no idea what happened here. The 6th Ed. plastics were great. These are not.
Tomb Kings: Ancient core all around.
Vampire Counts: Newish ghouls and skeletons, ancient but somewhat serviceable zombies.
Warriors: Old barbarians and monopose, but serviceable warriors.
Wood Elves: Good core.
So, basically Dark Elves, High Elves, Orcs and Goblins, Empire and Tomb Kings are in dire need of a revision, in my opinion.
It won't make them as much money though, so it's not gonna happen.
34242
Post by: -Loki-
 Rinkydink wrote: - I am a little concerned that Giant MC's seem to be the way of things to come. Do you think this trend will continue with each subsequent release? Bigger and bigger MC's for the foreseeable future? The once all powerful Carnifex must be quaking in his paltry 60mm based, hoofed boots.
Carnifexes were always meant to be Tyranid equivalents of Dreadnoughts. GW just lacked the plastic technology to do huge organic models until the Mumakil. The Trygon and Tervigon are suitably huge (I know, I just finished a Carnifex and I'm working on a Tervigon now... so big). The only difference is the current large MCs are all super killy units, while the Tyrannofex is pretty terrible and the Trygon is pretty overpriced for what it does compared to these new units. The Tervigon is awesome, but it's psychic army support, not a big killy monster. Rinkydink wrote:For a while, I though flyers would be the prevalent release, but heck, what do I know?
Flyers are more prevalent, actually. They're in more releases, and generally are dual kits or multiple kits.
59739
Post by: Micky
Plastic flyers, big plastic single models (giant walkers, chariots, etc) , and moving from finecast to plastic (pathfinders, wraithguard, etc).
I tend to think that getting my elites/fast attack/special in plastic is preferable to getting updated troops/core.
58317
Post by: tuiman
The army releases in 5th edition were so good, necrons, grey knights and dark eldar in particular. They all got a complete overhaul and fantastic range of models.
SO far in 6th rather than a new release its more like an "expansion". Bringing a codex in line with 6th, bolt on a flyer and oval base monster and then move on to the next one. Its a real shame in my opinion. I would love to start a new eldar or chaos army, but if they never update things like jetbikes or aspect warriors, basic chaos troops, then I probably never will.
Now I'm not saying that eldar etc need a complete revamp, but replacing miniatures that have been around for a ridiculous time should be expected.
99
Post by: insaniak
775B53 wrote:It's because of the leech companies like Chapterhouse that you people love so much. GW is now forced to release new kits right from the start to pre-empt any copyright infringement.
That's certainly one way of looking at it.
Personally, if the end result is that GW are releasing new kits with the codex rather than having units sit for years on end without models, that seems like a good thing to me...
The only other option for them would be not to make any new units at all,...
Making several new kits or making none are the only two options available to GW?
Seriously?
Combine this with their new fast production schedule (which people have been asking for for years and are now complaining about)....
When you finally decide to give people something that they have been asking for, but do it in a half-assed way, yes, people will complain. That should hardly surprise anyone.
38677
Post by: Ozomoto
Daemons didnt get any new guys, Tau got one so +1
Chaos got thiers pooped on ( dont get me wrong great codex, and they needed a nerf) -1, the fiends are walkers, not really mc.
so basically mcs are on sqaure one. Really dont know what your talking about.
9598
Post by: Quintinus
775B53 wrote:Do you know why this happened?
It's because of the leech companies like Chapterhouse that you people love so much. GW is now forced to release new kits right from the start to pre-empt any copyright infringement. It is basically Chapterhouse's fault that we never get core/existing units updated anymore. The only other option for them would be not to make any new units at all, in which case this thread here would be replaced with "Waaaaahh why doesn't GW release new units? they have no originality."
Combine this with their new fast production schedule (which people have been asking for for years and are now complaining about) and you can see how some pieces end up rushed.
Strong first post
False dichotomy of peace...
34242
Post by: -Loki-
 tuiman wrote:The army releases in 5th edition were so good, necrons, grey knights and dark eldar in particular. They all got a complete overhaul and fantastic range of models.
SO far in 6th rather than a new release its more like an "expansion". Bringing a codex in line with 6th, bolt on a flyer and oval base monster and then move on to the next one. Its a real shame in my opinion. I would love to start a new eldar or chaos army, but if they never update things like jetbikes or aspect warriors, basic chaos troops, then I probably never will.
Now I'm not saying that eldar etc need a complete revamp, but replacing miniatures that have been around for a ridiculous time should be expected.
That's probably because Necrons, Grey Knights and Dark Eldar needed the huge revamps they got for a variety of reasons (old, bad models, mostly metal ranges, very limited ranges due to not being updated in so long).
The 6th edition books have all been armies that just need a little variety (which GW are adding with flyers and big kits) and some moving out of Finecast/metal to all plastic. Eldar, despite being the oldest range now in 40k, still have some of the best looking models in 40k. They don't need the revamp. They don't even need the variety as the Eldar range has always been plenty varied, which I assume is why they mostly just got the usual 6th edition stuff - big kit, flyers, moving from finecast to plastic. The only thing that surprised me was how little was release in terms of moving from finecast to plastic. I really expected some Aspect multi-kits.
67904
Post by: Solis Luna Astrum
775B53 wrote:Do you know why this happened?
It's because of the leech companies like Chapterhouse that you people love so much. GW is now forced to release new kits right from the start to pre-empt any copyright infringement. It is basically Chapterhouse's fault that we never get core/existing units updated anymore. The only other option for them would be not to make any new units at all, in which case this thread here would be replaced with "Waaaaahh why doesn't GW release new units? they have no originality."
Combine this with their new fast production schedule (which people have been asking for for years and are now complaining about) and you can see how some pieces end up rushed.
Storm Raven. Worst looking model ever. The only reason I bought the piece of crap was because Chapterhouse made a conversion kit that makes it look like a real vehicle instead of the stupid flying pregnant guppy that it is. Chapterhouse was directly responsible for me putting an extra $82.50 in GW's pocket.
4820
Post by: Ailaros
Honestly, 40k as we know it today basically started as Epic. Slowly over time, more and more stuff from Epic has found its way into 40k. Things like the introduction of apocalypse and fliers in 6th edition seems like a continuation of the general trend. In fact, GW now creates plastic models of things that for a long time were epic only (like the baneblade...)
It looks to me more like a long, continuing trend of making 40k a "full-sized" version of Epic than something particularly new that's happening.
That said, yeah, we're probably going to see a lot of monstrous creatures. When GW is done with that, it wouldn't surprise me to see more superheavies, and perhaps, years in the future, a plastic kit and rules for using the smaller titans in regular games of 40k.
58317
Post by: tuiman
 -Loki- wrote: tuiman wrote:The army releases in 5th edition were so good, necrons, grey knights and dark eldar in particular. They all got a complete overhaul and fantastic range of models.
SO far in 6th rather than a new release its more like an "expansion". Bringing a codex in line with 6th, bolt on a flyer and oval base monster and then move on to the next one. Its a real shame in my opinion. I would love to start a new eldar or chaos army, but if they never update things like jetbikes or aspect warriors, basic chaos troops, then I probably never will.
Now I'm not saying that eldar etc need a complete revamp, but replacing miniatures that have been around for a ridiculous time should be expected.
That's probably because Necrons, Grey Knights and Dark Eldar needed the huge revamps they got for a variety of reasons (old, bad models, mostly metal ranges, very limited ranges due to not being updated in so long).
The 6th edition books have all been armies that just need a little variety (which GW are adding with flyers and big kits) and some moving out of Finecast/metal to all plastic. Eldar, despite being the oldest range now in 40k, still have some of the best looking models in 40k. They don't need the revamp. They don't even need the variety as the Eldar range has always been plenty varied, which I assume is why they mostly just got the usual 6th edition stuff - big kit, flyers, moving from finecast to plastic. The only thing that surprised me was how little was release in terms of moving from finecast to plastic. I really expected some Aspect multi-kits.
I agree that daemons, dark angels and tau didnt need much of a complete overhaul, they already had a good existing range and just needed more of an update plus a few cool toys.
However Eldar has a huge amount of metal in the line, and some of the plastics cough jetbikes cough, are such old models. I think eldar could have had a better update, unless they are still doing there wave system but I thought they are done with doing that.
To be fair I can just buy reavers and make them less "dark", and thats what I probably will do. I agree the range is very good and varied but some more plastic/updated models would have been nice.
44276
Post by: Lobokai
I like all the new walkers (starting with the Dreadknight). They're fairly easy to kill, add a new dimension, and really look nice on the battlefield.
But all the "everyone gets one" hysteria is silly. Necrons came after GK (no big walker). Then CSM (I guess we can count Fiends as big walkers?, but certainly not Dreadknight like stuff). Dark Angels passed on the walker trend. After that, Daemons (still no big walker). Finally Tau (there we go).
So of the last 6, only the first and last go a big walker... now we're up to 3 new large walkers in 7 codicies (counting eldar).
4820
Post by: Ailaros
I think you missed greater demons and demon princes.
Plus, you can hardly call the bloodthirster a counterexample of monstrous creatures...
44326
Post by: DeffDred
Sorry if anyone brought this up already but I keep seeing people say that Daemons didn't get any large new models...
The Chariots. Thy have the large flyer base. They may not be as big but they are on the big base. Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stalker?
Dark Angels passed on the walker trend.
They got a flyer instead.
After that, Daemons (still no big walker).
Chariots.
99
Post by: insaniak
The thing is, if GW didn't release new units with each codex release, people would complain. But really, for most armies where else is there to go other than bigger?
Just introducing different troop options or standard vehicles eventually starts getting confusing and redundant. So going bigger, and introducing different unit types like flyers is the logical progression.
63064
Post by: BoomWolf
Also, repacks and recasts can be made outside of codex order, as there is an existing unit already, making them perfect "filler" releases to be used later, unlike new releases that must be released with codex as there is no standing model for them.
It's not a wave, because nothing is "missing" in the codex, it's just allows to focus on the pressing issue (updating everything) first, then take care of improving the model ranges.
64821
Post by: Tycho
I think you missed greater demons and demon princes.
Plus, you can hardly call the bloodthirster a counterexample of monstrous creatures...
All of which have already been around for years. The OP's point was NEW MCs. Besides, half the point of Demons is to have really giant cool MC's anyway so it's not like they'd be out of place there.
And like I said before, if you look at the four 6th ed codexes that have been released so far, Chaos got a large walker (not really a MC but still probably the type of unit the OP is talking about), and Tau got the Riptide. That's about it. Someone said "But DA got a flier instead", but CSM got a flier and so did Tau. Fliers are the one thing that will be in every codex almost certainly. Large walkers and monstrous creatures? So far the trend says no.
59092
Post by: BrotherVord
I don't see the problem with the new elder wraith knight price. People have been paying triple that price for forgeworld titans for years. This model is nearly as large for 1/3 or at most 1/2 the price.
Gw is doin right by gamers as far as I'm concerned with this...and I'm far from a fanboy. Some foot may very well be them thrashing about in a panic, but if the result is good minis then I say thrash away
69430
Post by: Wilytank
I've said this elsewhere, but I should say it again.
GW, no more giant robots please.
65162
Post by: TheDraconicLord
 Wilytank wrote:I've said this elsewhere, but I should say it again.
GW, no more giant robots please.
Your argument is invalid  Look at THAT epic scene.
73650
Post by: Danny slag
I agree that a lot of the more recent books didn't need all new miniature lines for core because they look pretty up to date and good. But aren't the current chaos space marine squad sculpts something like 10 years old? I could be wrong, I'm new to 40k but I read that stat somewhere and they certainly look like it. I've been a long time player of other GW games and yes, the company does seem to be a bumbling buffoon with no real direction who occasionally rouses from it's slumber to find the most obnoxious ways to make more cash from it's customers.
I appreciate getting more than one codex every 9 months so that at any given time only a couple codexes even make sense in the current edition but doing it just to sell big plastic kits isn't the right reason.
69829
Post by: Thatguyhsagun
69430
Post by: Wilytank
Take your Apocalypse photo collections and go away. The Orks have a giant robot, but it's an Apocalypse Super Heavy and rightly so. Now the Eldar are getting one that's only a couple of inches shorter and it can be used in normal games? I hope this running trend ends.
21031
Post by: ghpoobah
It seems like bigger kits is just what people seem to want, after all, look at Warmahordes?
Bit sad that people are jumping up and down about it before all of the information is available though, personally I think the flyers look great, the wraith knight looks like its going to be a lot of fun to play with (no way that things going to get cover) and its setting the scene nicely for the alleged apoc release later this year.
Who knows, the plastic Thunderhawk we've all been hoping for could be on the way!
69829
Post by: Thatguyhsagun
Wilytank wrote:
Take your Apocalypse photo collections and go away. The Orks have a giant robot, but it's an Apocalypse Super Heavy and rightly so. Now the Eldar are getting one that's only a couple of inches shorter and it can be used in normal games? I hope this running trend ends.
Just wait, itll be priced at 200 points 
Im sure orks will get some love too. Maybe a squigoth?
6772
Post by: Vaktathi
As a thought, given the large kits being produced for each army now as they're released in turn, I'm curious as to what other armies may get, or may get ported into "normal" 40k at this rate. Eldar are apparently getting formerly-Epic-specific Knights as a codex unit, how long until we see say, Baneblades as a Heavy Support choice in some form or fashion for IG armies?
69829
Post by: Thatguyhsagun
 Vaktathi wrote:As a thought, given the large kits being produced for each army now as they're released in turn, I'm curious as to what other armies may get, or may get ported into "normal" 40k at this rate. Eldar are apparently getting formerly-Epic-specific Knights as a codex unit, how long until we see say, Baneblades as a Heavy Support choice in some form or fashion for IG armies?
The baneblade costs 600 points though, im sure the Eldar unit isn't more than 300
6772
Post by: Vaktathi
BB's are only 500 (though yes, still a big gap ). I'm really hoping that never comes to pass, even as an IG player owning 4, they just shouldn't be there, but at the same time it's not unheard of to see near 500pt units already after kit and kaboodle, and what better way to re-energize sales of a big expensive tank kit than to put it in the codex? 
26808
Post by: Xyptc
Rinkydink wrote:Whilst I am certainly enjoying the fact GW seems to have increased its output in term of releases - With Eldar imminent, that makes 5 factions since 6th Ed. hit - CSM, DA, Daemons, Tau and now Eldar.
- I am a little concerned that Giant MC's seem to be the way of things to come. Do you think this trend will continue with each subsequent release? Bigger and bigger MC's for the foreseeable future? The once all powerful Carnifex must be quaking in his paltry 60mm based, hoofed boots.
For a while, I though flyers would be the prevalent release, but heck, what do I know?
Mods: Please move to 40k discussion...
That said, I would expect the Carnifex to get an injection of awesomeness rules-wise when the next Tyranid book hits. Such an iconic unit, sad to see it fall behind the Tervigon and Trygon.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Vaktathi wrote:BB's are only 500 (though yes, still a big gap ). I'm really hoping that never comes to pass, even as an IG player owning 4, they just shouldn't be there, but at the same time it's not unheard of to see near 500pt units already after kit and kaboodle, and what better way to re-energize sales of a big expensive tank kit than to put it in the codex?
I could see the Baneblade making it into the Imperial Guard codex.
Make it an HQ choice for an Armored Company, and bam.
For that matter, the Shadowsword and its chassis could make an appearance as well in the same vein.
69430
Post by: Wilytank
 Kanluwen wrote: Vaktathi wrote:BB's are only 500 (though yes, still a big gap ). I'm really hoping that never comes to pass, even as an IG player owning 4, they just shouldn't be there, but at the same time it's not unheard of to see near 500pt units already after kit and kaboodle, and what better way to re-energize sales of a big expensive tank kit than to put it in the codex?
I could see the Baneblade making it into the Imperial Guard codex.
Make it an HQ choice for an Armored Company, and bam.
For that matter, the Shadowsword and its chassis could make an appearance as well in the same vein.
My issue isn't couldn't. It's shouldn't.
73673
Post by: Flying Toaster
Kanluwen wrote: Vaktathi wrote:BB's are only 500 (though yes, still a big gap ). I'm really hoping that never comes to pass, even as an IG player owning 4, they just shouldn't be there, but at the same time it's not unheard of to see near 500pt units already after kit and kaboodle, and what better way to re-energize sales of a big expensive tank kit than to put it in the codex?
I could see the Baneblade making it into the Imperial Guard codex.
Make it an HQ choice for an Armored Company, and bam.
For that matter, the Shadowsword and its chassis could make an appearance as well in the same vein.
My God man. If this would actually happen all my IG dreams would be fulfilled. GW's release of giant mecha robots of doom was at first starting to scare me but if it trickled over to the IG getting the Baneblade as a non apoc only requirement that would be bloody brilliant.
6772
Post by: Vaktathi
Mechanistically I think it'd work fine basically it'd be a 9HP russ with a big blast and a ton of points, but thematically I have issues with the availability of such a vehicle in just any battle, though I guess at that point Space Marines wouldn't be seen much either...
73673
Post by: Flying Toaster
That's why you point it highly and you make it a HQ choice. Limit the availability of the unit.
54671
Post by: Crazyterran
That's why you point it highly and you make it a HQ choice. Limit the availability of the unit.
And/or limit it 0-1 for an army.
Also, I wonder what the Space Marine one will be.
Hope to god it's not the GK one.
I'd also be fine with a tank.
Then again, we've gotten two new flyers since our codex launched, so maybe we don't need anything.
67367
Post by: MajorStoffer
To be honest, I'd be much happier with bigger tanks. Giant robots only suit a very small number of armies. Even the Eldar are a somewhat dubious choice; yes they use titans and their various wraith units, but they're just as partial to skimmers. Heck, they're probably one of the most mechanised armies out there, and FW has produced a bunch of cool super-skimmers, both Apoc sized, and those suitable for 40k (Warp Hunters anyone?). Giving a walker to everyone feels cheesy to me, and I sincerely hope they drop that particular scheme as we go into armies increasingly ill-suited for walkers.
The theory is Vanilla Marines are next, and dear god, they don't need a Dreadknight. The GK had an excuse for a giant walker; they fight giant daemons on a regular basis, it's just the execution on the model was gak. The Marines, however, have no such excuse. There is no possible reason for a precision strike army to have giant mecha, and what they could benefit from instead is more specialist infantry or light vehicles; superheavy walkers just don't fit their theme.
The orks and Tyranids are the only other armies in the works that really can justify a giant walking unit, and even then neither really need it. I'd much rather see more ork vehicles than pseudo-MCs. In truth, I think this focus on giant walkers is pushing 40ks aesthetic closer to warmahordes, which is not what I want.
45831
Post by: happygolucky
For Orks I really do hope the Mega-Dread becomes a plastic kit, that would be cool for their Giant robot...
Also I did measure the size of the Waithknight to the Stompa and the Knight is about the same size as the Stompa (its around 9" as I have heard), so who knows? maybe we could get the Stompa for the Ork codex...
69430
Post by: Wilytank
For the last time, we should not have super heavies in the codex.
26018
Post by: Vryce
Wilytank wrote:For the last time, we should not have super heavies in the codex.
You beating on this singular point isn't going to make it go away. As has been said, most armies are "up to date" (by GW standards anyway) & really don't have many other options to re-invigorate armies or cause players w/ completed armies to spend more money on their army when their new codex drops.
So many things that were previously epic or apoc scale have been introduced into 6th ed's core rules - rest assured, it will continue.
~Vryce
69430
Post by: Wilytank
Cool, then they should lose structure points so they can be handled in 1500 points.
55015
Post by: The Shadow
 Mr.Omega wrote: Samurai_Eduh wrote:Why would GW bother to update old troop models when most people take only minimal troops? When was the last time you saw a real tournament list with more than the minimum? Necrons are the worst with 2-3 units of five models in most competetive lists.
Have you actually ever played at a tournament?
Many competitive lists...
And there the argument falls. The tournament players are a very small proportion of the gaming community. If GW did care about competitive players (and I think they have said themselves that they don't focus on them), then the rules of the game and the structure of the armies would be very different. GW bring out these centrepiece models which are expensive and cool because all the kids and impulse buyers buy them, because they are "cool". The fact that GW normally gives them awesome rules is to sell to a few more people who know what they're doing.
4820
Post by: Ailaros
You know, it wouldn't actually surprise me if the new guard codex get's something that's an intermediary between the russ and the baneblade.
Because otherwise they're going to have to give us some sort of super-armored-sentinel-MC-monstrosity that will make me want to vomit on myself.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
 Ailaros wrote:You know, it wouldn't actually surprise me if the new guard codex get's something that's an intermediary between the russ and the baneblade.
Because otherwise they're going to have to give us some sort of super-armored-sentinel- MC-monstrosity that will make me want to vomit on myself.
I'm very much okay with an up scaled Sentinel with dual guns
26018
Post by: Vryce
Wilytank wrote:Cool, then they should lose structure points so they can be handled in 1500 points.
Obviously you don't understand what Hull Points are.
~Vryce
34242
Post by: -Loki-
 MajorStoffer wrote:To be honest, I'd be much happier with bigger tanks. Giant robots only suit a very small number of armies. Even the Eldar are a somewhat dubious choice; yes they use titans and their various wraith units, but they're just as partial to skimmers. Heck, they're probably one of the most mechanised armies out there, and FW has produced a bunch of cool super-skimmers, both Apoc sized, and those suitable for 40k (Warp Hunters anyone?). Giving a walker to everyone feels cheesy to me, and I sincerely hope they drop that particular scheme as we go into armies increasingly ill-suited for walkers.
Yes, but Eldar did have a walker between titan and dreadnought size in Epic. Called a Knight.
That's really what these big robots feel like, GW reimagining the Knight concept and bringing it to 40k. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see an Imperial Knight with Magna Melta, Battle Cannon, Chainsword and Lance weapon options either in the Guard codex.
The real downside is GW missed an opportunity to give Chaos a Knight as well.
6772
Post by: Vaktathi
Wilytank wrote:Cool, then they should lose structure points so they can be handled in 1500 points.
In all honesty they are very easily handled in 1500pts. If you can handle 3 Leman Russ tanks (which a TAC list should) in 1500pts, you can more than deal with a Baneblade, as a BB has roughly the same combined resiliency and firepower (10" blast and 5" demo cannon, 2 lascannons and 3 HB's versus 3 battlecannons and 3 lascannons for or 3 BC's and 9 HB's for roughly the same points) but can be combined against as a single target. If someone tries taking two in 1500pts, they'd have only a third of their points left for Troops, HQ, AA, transports, etc, which would leave the army easily defeated, and three would be impossible. BB's aren't the ridiculous titans with D weaponry that are typically severly undercosted, they're just basically a Leman Russ X3.
69145
Post by: Asmodai Asmodean
Are people seriously crying over the awesome release schedule and veritable cornucopia of new units? Maybe we should have just stayed stuck in 2nd edition and never ever ever progressed beyond 10-man armies.
40K is an exercise in creativity. Don't like the new models? Make/kitbash your own. All the rules provide are rules, and the consensus which allows you to field them.
34242
Post by: -Loki-
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:Are people seriously crying over the awesome release schedule and veritable cornucopia of new units?
No, they're griping about flyers and giant walkers being shoehorned into every release.
I don't see the problem, as I'm a fan of both, but I can certainly see how someone who didn't want a giant Eldar walker, but did want plastic aspect warriors, would be miffed at this.
4820
Post by: Ailaros
Yeah.
Plus, I suppose those who get a tiny pang of self-satisfaction by not taking over-the-top units (like myself), can bask ever so slightly more in their self-righteous vindication.
In fact, I almost hope that Matt Ward DOES write the next guard codex and give it some sort of ludicrously overpowered monstrous creature just so that I can not field it.
44326
Post by: DeffDred
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:Are people seriously crying over the awesome release schedule and veritable cornucopia of new units? Maybe we should have just stayed stuck in 2nd edition and never ever ever progressed beyond 10-man armies.
40K is an exercise in creativity. Don't like the new models? Make/kitbash your own. All the rules provide are rules, and the consensus which allows you to field them.
Awesome release schedule? You mean the years of waiting for the models to come out of the warehouse they were sitting in?
Cornucopia? A new flyer... Big stupid looking walker... Wraithguard got some new bitz.... am I missing anything on this veritable endless list?
10 man armies? I don't think I ever saw a second edition army that small. Automatically Appended Next Post: -Loki- wrote: but I can certainly see how someone who didn't want a giant Eldar walker, but did want plastic aspect warriors, would be miffed at this.
Yup. That's exactly why my Eldar are now in the Swap Shop.
67367
Post by: MajorStoffer
Ailaros wrote:Yeah.
Plus, I suppose those who get a tiny pang of self-satisfaction by not taking over-the-top units (like myself), can bask ever so slightly more in their self-righteous vindication.
In fact, I almost hope that Matt Ward DOES write the next guard codex and give it some sort of ludicrously overpowered monstrous creature just so that I can not field it.
I like that way you think. I already get some of that satisfaction by not using vendettas, manticores or power axe blobs.
New edition nerfs vehicles? MOAR LEMAN RUSSES!
65162
Post by: TheDraconicLord
MajorStoffer wrote: Ailaros wrote:Yeah.
Plus, I suppose those who get a tiny pang of self-satisfaction by not taking over-the-top units (like myself), can bask ever so slightly more in their self-righteous vindication.
In fact, I almost hope that Matt Ward DOES write the next guard codex and give it some sort of ludicrously overpowered monstrous creature just so that I can not field it.
I like that way you think. I already get some of that satisfaction by not using vendettas, manticores or power axe blobs.
New edition nerfs vehicles? MOAR LEMAN RUSSES!
Ailaros wrote:Yeah.
Plus, I suppose those who get a tiny pang of self-satisfaction by not taking over-the-top units (like myself), can bask ever so slightly more in their self-righteous vindication.
In fact, I almost hope that Matt Ward DOES write the next guard codex and give it some sort of ludicrously overpowered monstrous creature just so that I can not field it.
Hipsters, hipsters everywhere
I'm hoping the Imperium of Man gets a "generic" giant walker. A Knight Since Knights are huge but aren't Titans (yet), they could be the SM / IG giant walker. Heck, if what my FLGS owner told me it's true, they are exclusive to the Adeptus Mechanicus, so they are generic enough to use with everyone of the IoM.
Me, I'm so happy. I started 40k last October if I remember correctly, and I already considered all the armies awesome. With these new units I'm pretty much jumping with joy.
47367
Post by: Fenrir Kitsune
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:40K is an exercise in creativity. Don't like the new models? Make/kitbash your own. All the rules provide are rules, and the consensus which allows you to field them.
Any game is like this, not just 40K.
67268
Post by: Art_of_war
Vaktathi wrote: Wilytank wrote:Cool, then they should lose structure points so they can be handled in 1500 points.
In all honesty they are very easily handled in 1500pts. If you can handle 3 Leman Russ tanks (which a TAC list should) in 1500pts, you can more than deal with a Baneblade, as a BB has roughly the same combined resiliency and firepower (10" blast and 5" demo cannon, 2 lascannons and 3 HB's versus 3 battlecannons and 3 lascannons for or 3 BC's and 9 HB's for roughly the same points) but can be combined against as a single target. If someone tries taking two in 1500pts, they'd have only a third of their points left for Troops, HQ, AA, transports, etc, which would leave the army easily defeated, and three would be impossible. BB's aren't the ridiculous titans with D weaponry that are typically severly undercosted, they're just basically a Leman Russ X3.
QFT
however where most folks object is the 10" template for the main gun... do not forget to shoot the autocannon at a targe first for twin-linked lols- 'what do you mean it scattered!'
On topic...
the GK/Eldar/Tau MCs at the moment 'fit' the respective armies- lets face it the Riptide fits the battlesuit development fluff quite well. Though with all of these MCs around we could see more Dark Eldar, as MC players whine when you spam splinter fire at them  .
Where GW have to be careful is what they do with armies such as IG, well a new tank perhaps? or put the thunderbolt in there to counterbalance the undoubted vendettas nerf that i'm sure will be coming 
Otherwise as long as they do not take it 'too far' then i am neutral on the subject- as the 'rule of cool' tends to outweigh most of these concerns as much as it pains me to say it 
just my humble opinion 
34242
Post by: -Loki-
Art_of_war wrote:the GK/Eldar/Tau MCs at the moment 'fit' the respective armies- lets face it the Riptide fits the battlesuit development fluff quite well. Though with all of these MCs around we could see more Dark Eldar, as MC players whine when you spam splinter fire at them .
You're the first person I've ever seen say that the Dreadknight fits the Greyknights. It really doesn't at all.
65336
Post by: rems01
There's been a grand total of 3 large walker units. That's hardly a trend. It's 3 big walkers that more or less fit their respective races (excluding the dreadknight though i feel the fluff behind it is acceptable it's just the execution was lacking).
Flyers however are a trend and will continue to be so. You should expect that seeing how they're a core mechanic of the big rulebook now.
Recently we've experienced some of the fastest, most numerous codex releases. This is a good thing and should be welcomed. The miniatures are getting better and better. This too is a good thing.
Finally if you don't like a new unit then don't use it. No one's forcing you to. Convert your own if you like. I can't understand the culture of whining and entitlement that seems to have developed.
34242
Post by: -Loki-
 rems01 wrote:Recently we've experienced some of the fastest, most numerous codex releases. This is a good thing and should be welcomed. The miniatures are getting better and better. This too is a good thing.
The people I see griping are two kinds - people who are annoyed at certain units being shoehorned into codices. This is valid. And people griping that codex releases are fairly weak compared to 5th edition releases. This isn't really. The majority of 5th edition releases were fairly small, simply to add new stuff. The releases held up as what should be the standard for 6th edition are the big revamps, which really is unfair. Those 3 books (Grey Knights, Necrons and Dark Eldar) had massive revamps for a reason. They were massively old ranges in all, or nearly all, metal with sculpts that did not stand the test of time. There's only one army left that should have that kind of release expected - Sistsers of Battle. Even Eldar don't need it. The majority of their range still looks as fantastic now as it did in the early 90's. The stuff that doesn't look very good anymore is few and far between. Jetbikes and Warp Spiders, for the most part. The range just needs moving to pastic, which is something I was surprised at the lack of. The rest are going to be exactly like we've been getting. A large kit on the oval base, a flyer or two, a finecast unit or two moving to plastic, a character moving to plastic and a finecast character or two. The reason we've been getting codices so fast is they a. stockpiled a few for quciker releases with 6th edition, and b. they're not putting as many new units in the books. If you want books faster and less new stuff, this esition seems like it's going to be for you.
58702
Post by: Paitryn
tuiman wrote:The army releases in 5th edition were so good, necrons, grey knights and dark eldar in particular. They all got a complete overhaul and fantastic range of models.
SO far in 6th rather than a new release its more like an "expansion". Bringing a codex in line with 6th, bolt on a flyer and oval base monster and then move on to the next one. Its a real shame in my opinion. I would love to start a new eldar or chaos army, but if they never update things like jetbikes or aspect warriors, basic chaos troops, then I probably never will.
Now I'm not saying that eldar etc need a complete revamp, but replacing miniatures that have been around for a ridiculous time should be expected.
Your talking about 3 armies that needed a revamp. 2 of those needed one desperately Those were armies that had not had an updated troop selection since early third.
59234
Post by: Verthane
Shadowswords usable in 40K? Yes please, I've been wanting that for more than 20 years.
Honestly, I walk past the Baneblade model in the FLGS every single week, and with Apoc games being once or twice a year events, it's completely not worth buying.
A 40K model that's actually usable in games of 40K is something I would almost certainly buy, though!
4820
Post by: Ailaros
TheDraconicLord wrote:Hipsters, hipsters everywhere
Wait, maybe you're right.
I like mainstream now, because hating mainstream is too mainstream.
Bring on the giant actuated metal men! Bring on the AV13 guard flier!
65162
Post by: TheDraconicLord
Ailaros wrote:TheDraconicLord wrote:Hipsters, hipsters everywhere
Wait, maybe you're right.
I like mainstream now, because hating mainstream is too mainstream.
Bring on the giant actuated metal men! Bring on the AV13 guard flier!
Now that's the spirit! Crush the enemy with your  -ness! You deserve your moment of glory!
73359
Post by: 300Spartans1cup
Solis Luna Astrum wrote:775B53 wrote:Do you know why this happened?
It's because of the leech companies like Chapterhouse that you people love so much. GW is now forced to release new kits right from the start to pre-empt any copyright infringement. It is basically Chapterhouse's fault that we never get core/existing units updated anymore. The only other option for them would be not to make any new units at all, in which case this thread here would be replaced with "Waaaaahh why doesn't GW release new units? they have no originality."
Combine this with their new fast production schedule (which people have been asking for for years and are now complaining about) and you can see how some pieces end up rushed.
Storm Raven. Worst looking model ever. The only reason I bought the piece of crap was because Chapterhouse made a conversion kit that makes it look like a real vehicle instead of the stupid flying pregnant guppy that it is. Chapterhouse was directly responsible for me putting an extra $82.50 in GW's pocket.
Good point, there is a guy at the hobbyshop i play at that has 2 Storm Ravens with the extensions. Probably had the same mentality.
Lobukia wrote: Necrons came after GK (no big walker).
Unless you count the Stalker.
30766
Post by: Da Butcha
I'm kind of surprised (and very disappointed) that GW rolled out a ruleset with fortifications that you could purchase for your army, and rolled out a trend of larger plastic models, and then didn't produce fortifications for specific armies.
Seriously?
1. You can now take fortifications in your army.
2. Here are fortifications specific to your army, right in your army book.
3. Thank you for the money.
If people will buy a new flier or a new walker for their existing army, why not assume they would buy army-specific fortifications?
Instead, they roll out the Imperial stuff and just stop. What the heck? You wrote rulebook anticipating this stuff, then produced NONE of it?
67367
Post by: MajorStoffer
Da Butcha wrote:I'm kind of surprised (and very disappointed) that GW rolled out a ruleset with fortifications that you could purchase for your army, and rolled out a trend of larger plastic models, and then didn't produce fortifications for specific armies.
Seriously?
1. You can now take fortifications in your army.
2. Here are fortifications specific to your army, right in your army book.
3. Thank you for the money.
If people will buy a new flier or a new walker for their existing army, why not assume they would buy army-specific fortifications?
Instead, they roll out the Imperial stuff and just stop. What the heck? You wrote rulebook anticipating this stuff, then produced NONE of it?
I love that they release a trenchline, but no rules for it for Guard or anyone to buy as a fortification. We've got one in our group, and usually deploy it opposite some equally large ruin and such, because it's cool to use and such, but really, a trenchline, but no ability for the Imperial Freaking Guard to buy it?
Kind of weird, since terrain and fortifications were a big push in this edition (and the massive price hike last June to go along with it) yet they haven't really followed up on it.
34242
Post by: -Loki-
I can't be the only one expecting an inevitable Fortifications supplement, can I?
I mean, it's fairly obvious. Don't put them in the codices, put them in another book.
67367
Post by: MajorStoffer
-Loki- wrote:I can't be the only one expecting an inevitable Fortifications supplement, can I?
I mean, it's fairly obvious. Don't put them in the codices, put them in another book.
Entirely possible. GW is really pushing the various expensive books now to act in concert with the expensive models. Becomming a touch irritating too, when all you want is a single rule/armylist/unit's rules, you've got to fork up $50+ on top of the actual models.
51365
Post by: kb305
 Dais wrote:Large plastic models are what GW does best. Those big models are usually the coolest things in the army ranges as well. I can't see them not utilizing this core competency in some way. I doubt every faction will get a big robot but new tanks, flyers, and walkers of some kind are almost a guarantee.
no way. i find their new infantry kits to be almost always very good to tolerable.
on the other hand, while some are good most of the new big toys look like something only a little timmy would want
dreadknight-i hate the babycarrier. some love it, personal preference i guess.
dinobots, helldrake, coral/snowflake pheonix, eagle chariot thing, im probably missing a bunch but they all look like crap.
40344
Post by: master of ordinance
kb305 wrote: Dais wrote:Large plastic models are what GW does best. Those big models are usually the coolest things in the army ranges as well. I can't see them not utilizing this core competency in some way. I doubt every faction will get a big robot but new tanks, flyers, and walkers of some kind are almost a guarantee.
no way. i find their new infantry kits to be almost always very good to tolerable. on the other hand, while some are good most of the new big toys look like something only a little timmy would want dreadknight-i hate the babycarrier. some love it, personal preference i guess. dinobots, helldrake, coral/snowflake pheonix, eagle chariot thing, im probably missing a bunch but they all look like crap.
I know how you feel here. The new Ariel model, for instance, resembles a character from pokemon and has some of the most atrocius sculpting ever to the point it just is stupidly fugly The dinobots are transformers, the animebot is terrible, and the babycarrier of doom is laughable.
69145
Post by: Asmodai Asmodean
kb305 wrote: Dais wrote:Large plastic models are what GW does best. Those big models are usually the coolest things in the army ranges as well. I can't see them not utilizing this core competency in some way. I doubt every faction will get a big robot but new tanks, flyers, and walkers of some kind are almost a guarantee.
no way. i find their new infantry kits to be almost always very good to tolerable.
on the other hand, while some are good most of the new big toys look like something only a little timmy would want
dreadknight-i hate the babycarrier. some love it, personal preference i guess.
dinobots, helldrake, coral/snowflake pheonix, eagle chariot thing, im probably missing a bunch but they all look like crap.
#
Don't like them, don't buy them. Scratchbuild your own and stop whining.
48557
Post by: Las
I really don't mind MCs but why do the new ones have to be SO freaking large? The pain of carting them around is just as much a dissuasion as the price tag to me.
21942
Post by: StarHunter25
With all these megabots of doom, I hope my nids get a plastic scythed/barbed heirodule to out-enourmous all of the enourmous robots. Nids should ever be out-classed when it comes to MC imo
8221
Post by: Zathras
775B53 wrote:Do you know why this happened?
It's because of the leech companies like Chapterhouse that you people love so much. GW is now forced to release new kits right from the start to pre-empt any copyright infringement. It is basically Chapterhouse's fault that we never get core/existing units updated anymore. The only other option for them would be not to make any new units at all, in which case this thread here would be replaced with "Waaaaahh why doesn't GW release new units? they have no originality."
Combine this with their new fast production schedule (which people have been asking for for years and are now complaining about) and you can see how some pieces end up rushed.
Ok, you can tell us....just what position do you work at GWHQ?
5197
Post by: Tekksama
Da Butcha wrote:I'm kind of surprised (and very disappointed) that GW rolled out a ruleset with fortifications that you could purchase for your army, and rolled out a trend of larger plastic models, and then didn't produce fortifications for specific armies.
I'm thinking that if they put it in a book, then it will eventually have a model to go with it. Gone are the glory days of giving us Codices full of special characers that you have to "counts-as" when there is potential profit to be made in new sculpts. As far as terrain is concerned however I say they can take all the time they want - one of my favorite parts of the hobby is terrain crafting and I would hate it if they started making terrain part of the meta to the point that someone gives me trouble because the hill I made 10 years ago is .5 inches taller than the GW hill he paid 50 bucks and 250 points to have included in his army.
Back on topic though I don't think MCs will be the new "in thing" for this edition. From what I've seen so far most fatties (even the new ones) are still large, obvious targets who (disclaimer: typically) wither under consistent fire and seem to struggle to make their significant point investment back. Their prominence is probably part cool factor, part advertising by GW. I don't want to say anything derogatory like "money grab" since GW is a for profit company, but from a marketing perspective it makes a ton of sense:
Step 1: Release new Codex
Step 2: Make sure you have new showcase units (Big baddies, Elites, and HQ) set to release with the Codex to bump sales while the excitement is high
It's not that the new units are in any way meant to be game changers, it's just that they look FANTASTIC on the sale page. Plus there's no need to update the entire line at this point because older gamers will still spend money to get the new units to suppliment their existing army (and would be hesitant to re-buy their army just for updated minis), and newer gamers will still just buy the old kits because they have no other choice if they want to field a workable army.
Will the other models in the line get an update at some point? Heck yeah but it will be during another marketing push a few years down the line when a particular army stagnates in sales due to it's "so last decade" looks (or in the case of some Eldar units "so 20 years ago" looks, I'm suprised the Wraithguard dont have acid washed jeans and slap bracelets on).
57646
Post by: Kain
Ailaros wrote:Yeah.
Plus, I suppose those who get a tiny pang of self-satisfaction by not taking over-the-top units (like myself), can bask ever so slightly more in their self-righteous vindication.
In fact, I almost hope that Matt Ward DOES write the next guard codex and give it some sort of ludicrously overpowered monstrous creature just so that I can not field it.
Don't worry, he'll just give you a special character with 9 pages of eye searingly bad fluff but has rules and stats so good you'd be stupid not to take it.
64816
Post by: washout77
I kinda feel like GW is trying to make Apocalypse and Epic the only way to play 40k. It seems slowly the amount of points people field and the amount of "epic" units that come out are getting higher and higher
Not that it is a bad thing, but if I wanted to play Apocalypse I would play Apocalypse. On top of that, they keep raising model prices. GW slowly loses loyal customers, and we lose even more money (or those who stay). No one really wins in these kind of situations.
51365
Post by: kb305
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:kb305 wrote: Dais wrote:Large plastic models are what GW does best. Those big models are usually the coolest things in the army ranges as well. I can't see them not utilizing this core competency in some way. I doubt every faction will get a big robot but new tanks, flyers, and walkers of some kind are almost a guarantee.
no way. i find their new infantry kits to be almost always very good to tolerable.
on the other hand, while some are good most of the new big toys look like something only a little timmy would want
dreadknight-i hate the babycarrier. some love it, personal preference i guess.
dinobots, helldrake, coral/snowflake pheonix, eagle chariot thing, im probably missing a bunch but they all look like crap.
#
Don't like them, don't buy them. Scratchbuild your own and stop whining.
dont worry. havnt bought any.
 washout77 wrote:I kinda feel like GW is trying to make Apocalypse and Epic the only way to play 40k. It seems slowly the amount of points people field and the amount of "epic" units that come out are getting higher and higher
Not that it is a bad thing, but if I wanted to play Apocalypse I would play Apocalypse. On top of that, they keep raising model prices. GW slowly loses loyal customers, and we lose even more money (or those who stay). No one really wins in these kind of situations.
youre probably right. the end goal is probably to have 40k to have similiar or even higher model count than fantasy. maybe apoc will end up being the new standard 40k. personally, not my cup of tea. too much crap to buy, too much crap to paint, too much crap to transport.
51881
Post by: BlaxicanX
I don't mind Monstrous Creatures, but I dislike their implementation for certain armies. Looking at the Tau aesthetic, it should have been a vehicle. The idea that it can be destroyed by things like poison is just ass, and people like to say "well just imagine the poison is acid" but if that's the case, then why doesn't the poison rule work on vehicles with an armor value? The rip-tide is a vehicle, it should have an armor value.
I dislike the Wraith Knight on the principle that the Eldar are supposed to be a very small, mobile, glass cannon army that relies on hit and run tactics and its speed to survive and do damage. Giving them the biggest freaking unit in the entire TT game that will almost assuredly be used as a static weapons platform in most games really craps on their aesthetic.
I can understand Daemons, CSM, Tyranids and maybe even the Dark Eldar having monstrous creatures (DE have various abominations and monsters to justify them having some super-mutant-freak thing as an MC). Beyond those factions, I don't feel like MC's fit the other factions' themes.
Though the Wraithlord has always been an MC. I guess that's fair.
59234
Post by: Verthane
washout77 wrote:I kinda feel like GW is trying to make Apocalypse and Epic the only way to play 40k. It seems slowly the amount of points people field and the amount of "epic" units that come out are getting higher and higher
Quite true -- It started out as a skirmish game, and every edition has been creep upwards -- due to reducing the cost of models in terms of points (so for the same "size" in points army, you suddenly need a "bigger" in models army), and due to just simply scaling the game for larger and larger battles. Implementation of force organization charts and objectives were big size creep points to the game, as was simplifying down things such that entire squads had to fire at the same target, etc.
62560
Post by: Makumba
I don't mind Monstrous Creatures, but I dislike their implementation for certain armies. Looking at the Tau aesthetic, it should have been a vehicle. The idea that it can be destroyed by things like poison is just ass, and people like to say "well just imagine the poison is acid" but if that's the case, then why doesn't the poison rule work on vehicles with an armor value? The rip-tide is a vehicle, it should have an armor value.
GW wants the huge models to sell , the Riptide and Eldar knight would have to be av 12 considering their size an armor, if It were not a MC . So to make them playable GW would have to give them +4inv and even then they would die rather fast .Making them MC makes them survive more , because aside for DA and sometimes nids no one uses poison using units .
59234
Post by: Verthane
Quite true -- of course, the real underlying problem is that the vehicle armor value system is poor design.
A land raider can be taken out by a single melta gun shot, whereas a single hive guard cannot. Huh?
9982
Post by: dementedwombat
 Verthane wrote:Quite true -- of course, the real underlying problem is that the vehicle armor value system is poor design.
A land raider can be taken out by a single melta gun shot, whereas a single hive guard cannot. Huh?
We could always turn the dial way back on the time machine and use a unique "penetrating hit table" for each vehicle to let everyone know what got blown off every time someone got a penetrating hit. Stuff like "subtract 3" from movement speed" "-1 to BS" "weapon destroyed"...
44531
Post by: Agent_Tremolo
Well, given that the other thread got baned by the fascist Mods, I'll continue my rambling here
BlaxicanX wrote:I dislike the Wraith Knight on the principle that the Eldar are supposed to be a very small, mobile, glass cannon army that relies on hit and run tactics and its speed to survive and do damage. Giving them the biggest freaking unit in the entire TT game that will almost assuredly be used as a static weapons platform in most games really craps on their aesthetic.
Well, Eldar Knights have been in the fluff since day one. But then, Eldar Titans (and perhaps Knights as well - I recall the rules for Eldar titans from Epic 40k and FW, but didn't get to play Adeptus Titanicus) are supposed to be very fragile compared to their Imperial counterparts, thus relying in cloaking and high mobility to stay alive, so here's me hoping that the rules reflect the Eldar approach to super-heavy walker design.
The fact that it's a Knight raises some interesting points as well. Knights were meant to be lower-end superheavies, some sort of "infantry" for apocalyptic battles involving Titans (they even were scaled to stand on standard GW infantry bases). They strike me as borderline Apocalypse units: Extremely powerful for a standard battle of 40k, but perhaps too weak to stand on its own on Apocalypse. Guess we'll know more when we read the rules.
As for other concerns regarding the trend towards ginormous kits in 40k, I just talked to a friend andlongtime Eldar player who has voiced his intention to preorder the Towering Monstrosity as soon as it hits the web. Asking him about the concerns over size and price, he's reminded me of the (kinda heated) debates that sparked amongst the local 40k players when the now widely accepted Valkyrie was first released. I wasn't around when that happened, but seemingly it caused quite a stir as some players felt it was a)Ugly as sin b)Contrary to everything 40k was meant to stand for c)Too big for the gaming table. Some years on, noone seems to question the Valkyrie as an integral part of the Imperial Guard outside the fairly frequent cries of OP (and some players have one even if they won't field it, just because it looks cool).
33170
Post by: Lord Castellan
Ailaros wrote:You know, it wouldn't actually surprise me if the new guard codex get's something that's an intermediary between the russ and the baneblade.
Because otherwise they're going to have to give us some sort of super-armored-sentinel- MC-monstrosity that will make me want to vomit on myself.
You mean the Macharius?
99
Post by: insaniak
It won't be something currently produced by Forgeworld. The last couple of codex releases have shown rather conclusively I think that they are not raiding kit ideas from Forgeworld any more.
34242
Post by: -Loki-
Plus, also, they said they won't do it any more anyway (since it overall does not expand the range, just moves a FW resin model to GW plastic).
The sheer size of the Wraithknight sets an odd precedent. Right now, I'd not be shocked at all seeing the Stompa and Baneblade go into the Ork and Guard codices, and the new Apocalypse book not having datasheets anymore, just scenarios and special rules, with Apocalypse stuff moving to plain old 40k.
67367
Post by: MajorStoffer
Amusingly, Forgeworld is the way around price creeps.
Most of their stuff has remained at its original astronomical price since release. In fact, the books have gotten slightly cheaper as of late. Their pricing, while starting from a much higher base, has remained consistent, predictable and quite fixed. Hence how some kits are actually the same price as their GW counterpart while offering better quality. About the only things really stupidly expensive still in comparison to normal GW is their Imperial Guard infantry; the Death Korps and Elysians.
34242
Post by: -Loki-
MajorStoffer wrote:About the only things really stupidly expensive still in comparison to normal GW is their Imperial Guard infantry; the Death Korps and Elysians.
And that depends on the country. For Australians, even the infantry is nearly at parity with GW's infantry (10 Elysians are $11au more than 10 Cadians). One more price hike and it should be about right.
54708
Post by: TheCustomLime
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space-Marine-Dreadnoughts/MK-IV-DREADNOUGHT.html
This is about 9 dollars cheaper than a GW Dreadnought and looks a lot better.
Edit: Before you factor in weapon costs.
58702
Post by: Paitryn
In terms of scale this is the direction we have to go. as the game progresses in the span of years we have to creep into a realm that is bigger and bigger.
Warmachine is doing the same thing with their gargantuans many games that start at skirmish level will expand over time. you have to in order to get existing customers to buy new models.
sure we could be asked to field more units by reducing point costs. but its better for the company and more interesting for us to have new units with new mechanics to buy and play with. Otherwise the complaint would be that GW was bland and unimaginative forcing us to buy the same units over and over again making them cheaper in points cost.
Big Robo/MC/baby carrier complaints really fall into the category of all the complaints that translate to me as "I LOVE GW! I love them so much that I cant stop COMPLAINING about them!" Some people just love to complain.
67367
Post by: MajorStoffer
-Loki- wrote: MajorStoffer wrote:About the only things really stupidly expensive still in comparison to normal GW is their Imperial Guard infantry; the Death Korps and Elysians.
And that depends on the country.
For Australians, even the infantry is nearly at parity with GW's infantry (10 Elysians are $11au more than 10 Cadians). One more price hike and it should be about right.
With the end result of Australians having the finest looking armies around. It's all part of GW's master plan to make it the most stylish 40k country on the planet.
Their shipping policy still irritates me, therefore I make a point of ordering small things where they're obviously losing money on shipping, and i get quite the bargain on shipping. Especially since to get their "free shipping," I'm in the threshold of being whacked by duties and UPS fees for duties, which can equal $150 or more if one is particularly unlucky.
60939
Post by: Enigwolf
MajorStoffer wrote:
Their shipping policy still irritates me, therefore I make a point of ordering small things where they're obviously losing money on shipping, and i get quite the bargain on shipping. Especially since to get their "free shipping," I'm in the threshold of being whacked by duties and UPS fees for duties, which can equal $150 or more if one is particularly unlucky.
I realized that duties applied the first time I gleefully managed to get their "free shipping". It was so much more expensive after that (and conversion rate, plus bank fees) I should've just split my order into two and called it a day. I feel as though FW is really just meant for the British players.
67100
Post by: rahxephon
Overall I'm happy enough for them to bring out new MCs, the dreadknight was cool, but I feel the wraithknight is just too large. Mainly I just compare new ones to tyranid MCs as for me, they've always been the MC army. But the wraithknight is just huge next to all of them, so up to a dreadknight size I felt was good, but the most recent one was overdoing it a bit. As far as future releases go, IG have to get one of these:
Same statline as a dreadknight (but WS/ BS 3) and with 2 quad guns... 50pts each seems fair...
And I would have to agree on FW prices becoming better (relatively) even in NZ. Plus currency changes help, the 250 pound warhound titan used to be 750NZD, now it isn't even 500... still haven't got one though 
99
Post by: insaniak
 Enigwolf wrote:I realized that duties applied the first time I gleefully managed to get their "free shipping". It was so much more expensive after that (and conversion rate, plus bank fees) I should've just split my order into two and called it a day. I feel as though FW is really just meant for the British players.
Forgeworld aren't responsible for your country's customs charges. Depending on where you are, and how much you order, it's not always that bad.
67367
Post by: MajorStoffer
 insaniak wrote: Enigwolf wrote:I realized that duties applied the first time I gleefully managed to get their "free shipping". It was so much more expensive after that (and conversion rate, plus bank fees) I should've just split my order into two and called it a day. I feel as though FW is really just meant for the British players.
Forgeworld aren't responsible for your country's customs charges. Depending on where you are, and how much you order, it's not always that bad.
The problem is they use UPS by default for their "free shipping," and while the duties alone aren't earth-shattering, the UPS charges for processing the duties are. In canada, if customs chooses to assay a forgeworld order at the free shipping margin, they'll charge you about $40 or so, and UPS will then charge you $76 on top of the $40 from customs.
Your ~$350 order is now $480 or so, whereas if you broke it up into, say, $60 increments, you'll pay about $50 in shipping. $50 seems a lot better across the same value than what amounts to $120 or more.
Of course, if you're lucky, customs won't check your package; they're very inconsistent and under-staffed, so it's down to the judgement of the officer in question as to whether its worth it, so you can roll the dice and save yourself some money, but with such a high value, there's pretty good odds they'll ding you. So, do you feel lucky?
60939
Post by: Enigwolf
MajorStoffer wrote: insaniak wrote: Enigwolf wrote:I realized that duties applied the first time I gleefully managed to get their "free shipping". It was so much more expensive after that (and conversion rate, plus bank fees) I should've just split my order into two and called it a day. I feel as though FW is really just meant for the British players.
Forgeworld aren't responsible for your country's customs charges. Depending on where you are, and how much you order, it's not always that bad.
The problem is they use UPS by default for their "free shipping," and while the duties alone aren't earth-shattering, the UPS charges for processing the duties are. In canada, if customs chooses to assay a forgeworld order at the free shipping margin, they'll charge you about $40 or so, and UPS will then charge you $76 on top of the $40 from customs.
Your ~$350 order is now $480 or so, whereas if you broke it up into, say, $60 increments, you'll pay about $50 in shipping. $50 seems a lot better across the same value than what amounts to $120 or more.
Of course, if you're lucky, customs won't check your package; they're very inconsistent and under-staffed, so it's down to the judgement of the officer in question as to whether its worth it, so you can roll the dice and save yourself some money, but with such a high value, there's pretty good odds they'll ding you. So, do you feel lucky?
This. In my home country, the customs charges are further stacked on top of another sales tax, and they never miss a shipment. I end up breaking all my packages down to save on shipping, which doesn't make sense of why it should be cheaper for me this way, but I'm not complaining. 
Edit: Also, happy 600th post! *pats self on back*
|
|
