I didn't see this posted anywhere else, and did a search for the combat company and couldn't see it there.

The Combat Company, a large Australian reseller of GW goods has announced that they will be considering legal action, due to the way they have been mistreated by GW.

The article says it best:

What's happening with the Eldar release?


You can still buy it on our website, but before you order, you need to know that

there is not enough stock... worldwide.

We ordered $10,000 worth of Eldar stock and

Games Workshop (GW) has not guaranteed us anything

Maybe we’ll be able to get 4 of 300 sets that are being brought into Australia. That’s less than 1% of what’s being imported – compared to the whopping 33% they are apparently withholding for their bricks-and-mortar stores and 33% for their Internet and mailorder.

For years we’ve supported the GW product range and gaming community, but this is the last straw. You have the right to buy GW from wherever you want. We will continue to sell their products and try to take every single dollar we can out of their direct sales channels.



The background

Anyone remember the ongoing Tau debacle?

Eldar is shaping up to be the second time a popular GW release has been drastically undersupplied to all wholesaler customers in Australia.

Unofficially, we’ve been told that GW are withholding 66% of all stock for their own purposes - 33% for their bricks and mortar and 33% for their own Internet / mail order sales. The last 33% is split across every other independent reseller in Australia and New Zealand – that’s at least 25 wholesale customers, averaging to about 4 pieces for each wholesale customer.

We were offered a wholesale pricelist on Tuesday 21 May. On Wednesday 22 May we ordered $10,000 worth of stock to meet our expected demand. On Thursday 23 May, we asked GW to confirm the order and whether they could supply the stock. We wanted to avoid another Tau situation and the disappointment it caused our customers.

GW replied:

“at this time… we are uncertain if we will be able to fill the order in its entirety”.



So, where does this leave us and more importantly, you:

We will offer Eldar for sale, but we cannot guarantee an estimated delivery time. We’ve been waiting over a month to receive our Tau backorders. GW will not even allow us to reserve stock – we can’t even say to them, ‘hey when it comes in, can we get some?’ but supply to their direct sales seems to be uninterrupted. This doesn’t bode well for Eldar does it?

Our Eldar order was based on a GW price list which contained no indication that stock would be limited. We spent time getting our promotions ready, newsletters, social media, site updates so we could promote this new release as enthusiastically as we have for all their other releases in the past.

When we confronted GW about withholding stock for themselves, instead of fulfilling our legitimate wholesale order, they did not respond in any meaningful way, just reiterated their ‘spreading the stock around’ dogma.

This is only one of many, ongoing problems we’ve had with Games Workshop since setting up our wholesale account. We’ve borne the brunt of the dirty tactics employed by GW to limit your capacity to buy products at a discount from independent suppliers.



What are we going to do about this?

In the short term, we’ll no longer be allocating a release date to any GW products as they are unable to guarantee stock, but we will endeavour to get it for you as quickly as we can.

We’ve had enough. We’re looking into legal action against GW on the grounds of uncompetitive business practices, blatantly establishing a monopoly on the market and, consequently, forcing customers to deal directly with GW.

Unless we’re already committed, we’ll no longer sponsor or be directly involved with any GW events or promotions for the community. We apologise profusely to you guys but we’re not receiving any support from GW on any front – especially gaming events. There is no point in supporting games systems produced by companies hellbent on our extinction and their own.

We believe GW are struggling to maintain a hold on their products and market share within the region. This is a symptom of their inevitable demise. They are, as many of you know, their own worst enemy. We have done everything we can, exercised every degree of patience and made multiple excuses for their behaviour, but enough is enough. We have tried to work with them. We pushed their products and promoted gaming events for them – and now it comes to this.

You have the right to buy GW from wherever you want. We will continue to sell their products and take every single dollar we can out of their direct sales channels.





All the above information is based on our own experiences and industry-insider knowledge. All opinions are our own and have been expressed after much deliberation. The content is intended to help you, the customer, understand our position so you can make an informed decision when purchasing GW products.

Their math may not be 100%, but I can see where they are coming from.

http://www.thecombatcompany.com/whats-happening-with-the-eldar-release/

So? There is no obligation for GW to sell their products. They can make them all and put them in a warehouse with the ark of the covenant.

Also, they don't understand what a 'monopoly' is. Of course GW has a monopoly on its own product. But they do not have a monopoly in distribution of minis or wargaming as a whole.

If Billy's bread won't sell me loaves to sell in my market and only sells via his bakery, then I just need to find Jimmy's bread to let me sell his bread. If Billy puts himself out of business, that is his problem, but it isn't illegal and he has no obligation to keep your market afloat...


Diversify and don't be so dependant on such a crazy company for retail product.

nkelsch wrote:
So? There is no obligation for GW to sell their products. They can make them all and put them in a warehouse with the ark of the covenant.

Also, they don't understand what a 'monopoly' is. Of course GW has a monopoly on its own product. But they do not have a monopoly in distribution of minis or wargaming as a whole.

If Billy's bread won't sell me loaves to sell in my market and only sells via his bakery, then I just need to find Jimmy's bread to let me sell his bread. If Billy puts himself out of business, that is his problem, but it isn't illegal and he has no obligation to keep your market afloat...


Diversify and don't be so dependant on such a crazy company for retail product.

There are possible legal ramifications for GW's behavior in Australia. In respect to Monopolies and Anti Competitive Pricing, there are possibilities there for them to explore. For instance, Apple, Microsoft and Adobe all sat in a recent parliamentary enquiry into their Australian pricing despite their pricing schemes being completely legal. It remains to be seen if they actually have a basis for a lawsuit worked out, or if this is simply bluster trying to score a few more elder, but there are avenues for them to explore if they so choose.

Wait, hold on. So Under AUS law, GW might actually be considered to have a monopoly on... Their own product? Thats bizzare.

Have any other shops in AUS come out saying anything similar, either in terms of looking into legal actions or simply corroborating statements that GWAUS really is holding onto roughly 2/3rds of the product for the country for their own outlets?

Indeed is, complete the opposite of here...

GW has been using shark tactics for years now and it is finally biting them hard in the rear. I really hope this goes to court honestly. But I can see how they could claim a monopoly is being done on distribution. The company paid in 10,000$ for Eldar stock which everyone knows will be huge except for GW because they want all independent sellers to die in a cess pool and apparently have no "pulse" on how popular they are.

I suspect the issue is more related to the apparent preferential treatment of their own direct sales channels vs those of third parties. Should be interesting to see how this turns out.

Yeah, this sounds like just another angry mob hunting for Dr. Workshop and his terrible creation that is direct sales.
A lot of these distributors sell Gamesworkshop products at discounted prices, which is against Gamesworkshops trade agreement.
This might be a nice way of saying, "you dont follow our rules, you dont sell our product."
That is not illegal in any way (or at least i don't see how.)

If this wasn't just a sales rep spouting the corporate reply after the Tau issue (Never let them assume an order will be filled a new release from this point on)---AND they truly have distribution issues again--I think the more interesting question would be; Why is GW suddenly having this issue?

Are they reaping the last several years of "fat trimming"?
Are they scaling back production to keep growth more stable/limited?
Are they experiencing raw material issues?
Or is this just two coincidental shortages (If this one pans out)?

What would concern me the most would be Games-Workshop accepting their money and then not delivering the goods on time; with no official warning whatsoever that they were having "stock issues". That is just dirty.

 AgeOfEgos wrote:
If this wasn't just a sales rep spouting the corporate reply after the Tau issue (Never let them assume an order will be filled a new release from this point on)---AND they truly have distribution issues again--I think the more interesting question would be; Why is GW suddenly having this issue?

Are they reaping the last several years of "fat trimming"?
Are they scaling back production to keep growth more stable/limited?
Are they experiencing raw material issues?
Or is this just two coincidental shortages (If this one pans out)?

Isn't the answer that they cut their NA production facility?

Nightwolf829 wrote:
What would concern me the most would be Games-Workshop accepting their money and then not delivering the goods on time; with no official warning whatsoever that they were having "stock issues". That is just dirty.

"Placing an order" does not mean that the order was processed or that money necessarily exchanged hands.

It's very specific in the wording that the Combat Company "placed the order" but that they requested confirmation from Games Workshop that the order was processed.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Nightwolf829 wrote:
What would concern me the most would be Games-Workshop accepting their money and then not delivering the goods on time; with no official warning whatsoever that they were having "stock issues". That is just dirty.

"Placing an order" does not mean that the order was processed or that money necessarily exchanged hands.

It's very specific in the wording that the Combat Company "placed the order" but that they requested confirmation from Games Workshop that the order was processed.

Yeah, I think so too.

See there are really 2 ways this could work out for them. I don't think there is any case law here short of something I remember about a supermarket distributor being shut down for similar practices.(currently looking for the info)

1. Fight the contract. If GW broke their own terms of trade somehow, they could seek damages.
2. ACCC: These guys fight consumer and business issues, as above they monitor monopoly practices and price fixing. They could lodge a complaint as both a business AND a consumer, depending on their agreement with GW.

But as I said, I don't know if there is a case, it will simply be interesting to see if it does go somewhere.

I thought all the aussies bought GW from overseas to avoid their local prices? That seems to be the dakka consensus unless its just a very vocal minority.

 warboss wrote:
I thought all the aussies bought GW from overseas to avoid their local prices? That seems to be the dakka consensus unless its just a very vocal minority.

They have done a lot to tighten their terms of trade preventing just this. It is now very difficult to buy GW internationally from Australia, unless you use eBay.

I was just pricing out an order through The Combat Company. I do love the little blurb on all the Eldar pre-orders, which basically amounts to "We have no fething idea when we're getting this stock in, so please be aware of that".

Really I don't know why this sort of thing surprises anyone. We all know that LGS suddenly have stock problems when a GW opens nearby. GW is just taking this strategy global.

nkelsch wrote:
So? There is no obligation for GW to sell their products. They can make them all and put them in a warehouse with the ark of the covenant.

And, while this is true, once they do decide to sell them - to act as a distributor - then they are obligated not to run afoul of the anti-competitive practices law of the jurisdictions they have chosen to do business in.

Whether or not that's happened, who knows. But it's not as cut and dried as "their product, they decide who to sell to" - and if you think about it, you already know that, really. For example, you know if a Walmart decided, for example, they wanted to refuse service to anyone who appeared Haitian, you know that's not going to fly. And while that's not what happened here, it shows the principle that you can sell to - or not sell to - whomever you like to not all all be an absolute.

 warboss wrote:
I thought all the aussies bought GW from overseas to avoid their local prices? That seems to be the dakka consensus unless its just a very vocal minority.

There's a lot of Aussie players. It's also possible that most of us here on Dakka order from OS while the majority in country buy locally. (skewed sample from Dakka?). Then again, the out-of-EU embargo didn't come out of nowhere, nor did the changes to US distributor policy. If we were just a minority, I doubt GW would have noticed or made the above changes.

Neronoxx wrote:
Yeah, this sounds like just another angry mob hunting for Dr. Workshop and his terrible creation that is direct sales.
A lot of these distributors sell Gamesworkshop products at discounted prices, which is against Gamesworkshops trade agreement.
This might be a nice way of saying, "you dont follow our rules, you dont sell our product."
That is not illegal in any way (or at least i don't see how.)

It can well be illegal to abuse your market position by using discriminatory practices to harm competitors.

http://www.australiancompetitionlaw.org/law/mmp.html

About Misuse of Market Power

Section 46(1) prohibits a corporation with substantial market power taking advantage of that market power for a prohibited purpose. The prohibited purposes include

(a) Eliminating or substantially damaging a competitor … in that or any other market

(b) Preventing entry of a person into that or any other market

© Deterring or preventing a person from engaging in competitive conduct in that or any other market

The purpose element has generally been easy to establish; the stumbling blocks have been market power and 'taking advantage'. Recent legislation - the Trade Practices Legislation Amendment Act 2008 - has also provided some guidance on the 'taking advantage' requirement designed to make it easier to prove.

I'm not a lawyer, but it could well be covered by Australian law (and UK law from what I could find), but whether it would get that far, and whether they could show GW was deliberately harming the competition without good reason, would be another issue entirely (there would be many pitfalls for The Combat Company to work through).

Neronoxx wrote:
Yeah, this sounds like just another angry mob hunting for Dr. Workshop and his terrible creation that is direct sales.
A lot of these distributors sell Gamesworkshop products at discounted prices, which is against Gamesworkshops trade agreement.
This might be a nice way of saying, "you dont follow our rules, you dont sell our product."
That is not illegal in any way (or at least i don't see how.)

Actually that would be illegal. Once GW (or anybody) sells their product to to somebody else to sell, they have no say in how much it goes for. That's price fixing.
Whether GW decide to sell their product to a FLGS to sell as well flogging them via their own stores and website is a different story. Although if they have a contract with someone to supply them and then don't, they could be in breach of contract.

varag wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:
Yeah, this sounds like just another angry mob hunting for Dr. Workshop and his terrible creation that is direct sales.
A lot of these distributors sell Gamesworkshop products at discounted prices, which is against Gamesworkshops trade agreement.
This might be a nice way of saying, "you dont follow our rules, you dont sell our product."
That is not illegal in any way (or at least i don't see how.)

Actually that would be illegal. Once GW (or anybody) sells their product to to somebody else to sell, they have no say in how much it goes for. That's price fixing.
Whether GW decide to sell their product to a FLGS to sell as well flogging them via their own stores and website is a different story. Although if they have a contract with someone to supply them and then don't, they could be in breach of contract.

I agree, but... Isn't this what Apple does. Apple advises of the price that want it sold for and if the retailers sells it for a discount without Apples permission then Apple tears up the distribution contract?

I think its possible to have a case. I would hope he wouldn't voice his intentions without first consulting legal advice saying that he could.

From the sounds of things, (and not too unfamiliar) is that GW is artificially creating demand in Aus, and supplying that demand in their own brick and mortar outlets without supplying to the stores they entered and agreement to supply to. I could in fact be a case of monopolizing to their own brick and mortar store over a FLGS.

 sarduka42 wrote:

varag wrote:


Actually that would be illegal. Once GW (or anybody) sells their product to to somebody else to sell, they have no say in how much it goes for. That's price fixing.
Whether GW decide to sell their product to a FLGS to sell as well flogging them via their own stores and website is a different story. Although if they have a contract with someone to supply them and then don't, they could be in breach of contract.

I agree, but... Isn't this what Apple does. Apple advises of the price that want it sold for and if the retailers sells it for a discount without Apples permission then Apple tears up the distribution contract?

Price fixing comes in when multiple parties agree to sell an item (that can be sourced from multiple avenues) at an agreed on price (petrol/gas companies agreeing not to charge below $X when they quite easily could rather than allowing market forces to decide the price.)

When a single company puts it in their terms that "You will buy Product A from us for $X and sell it for $Y or else we will not sell you anything more" (as the mentioned Apple products) that is legally fine, as they are the only source for the product.

To give a more specific and closer example in the gaming world anyone who bought from Maelstrom back in the day would recall that Flames of War were never sold with as much of a % discount as other miniatures because of the terms of Maelstrom's contract. The makes didn't want the FoW product to be considered a "discount item" and had it in the contract that they were not permitted to sell it at more than and advertised 10% discount (i think it was 10%)

nkelsch wrote:
So? There is no obligation for GW to sell their products. They can make them all and put them in a warehouse with the ark of the covenant.

Also, they don't understand what a 'monopoly' is. Of course GW has a monopoly on its own product. But they do not have a monopoly in distribution of minis or wargaming as a whole.

If Billy's bread won't sell me loaves to sell in my market and only sells via his bakery, then I just need to find Jimmy's bread to let me sell his bread. If Billy puts himself out of business, that is his problem, but it isn't illegal and he has no obligation to keep your market afloat...


Diversify and don't be so dependant on such a crazy company for retail product.

You misunderstand the situation.

If you routinely sell Billy's Bread, have been for years, and you place another order with Billy, and Billy doesn't fulfill the order and instead puts product that otherwise would fulfill that order into Billy's Bike Delivered Bread so they can charge more and reap more margin, that's where a legal issue can develop under Australian (and many other nations) law.

If you place an order with Billy and Billy doesn't say squat until you call Billy and then Billy says "sorry, we're out of stock to fulfill that order" but in reality does and is instead putting it through other sales channels, a problem arises.

GW don't have to sell to anyone as such, they could just sell only through their own shops. But I think once you do start wholesaling your stuff and pulling in independent retailers, you're not supposed to leave them high and dry, grossly favouring your own stores at the expense of others. You are supposed to treat them fairly, after all, once an independent store takes on a line of stock they position themselves to sell to certain customers, they are vulnerable to their supplier failing to support them leaving them to look bad to the customer and ultimately lose business. To have a supplier of a major product screw you around by choking off your supply of stock in favour of their own shops isn't on. But then again, GW have a habit of undermining independent stores when it suits them.

The fact that Eldar are looking to be under produced after Tau doesn't look very good. I'm not sure that it's a sign GW are 'in trouble' but it does rather look like they are trimming all the fat so that releases come faster and they don't hang around because they being very conservative on meeting demand.

Neronoxx wrote:
A lot of these distributors sell Gamesworkshop products at discounted prices, which is against Gamesworkshops trade agreement.

Last time I saw the trade agreement here in Oz, it just disallowed selling with a discount over a certain amount, not all discounting.

And GW are very quick to cut off an account who breaks their rules. They don't need to mess about with not filling orders in that situation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warboss wrote:
I thought all the aussies bought GW from overseas to avoid their local prices? That seems to be the dakka consensus unless its just a very vocal minority.

Some (an increasing number at least up until the last round of trade changes overseas) buy from overseas, but there are still a core who like to support their local stores whey they actually still have one. And obviously some are still buying directly from GW stores, or their wouldn't be any GW stores.

With the apparent trend by GW to start equalising prices on new releases, we might even see a bit of a boost for in-country sales. Assuming the price creep doesn't balance that out...

Either some manchildren are throwing a tantrum again (see the Death From the Skies ban) or this is a lame PR stunt.

Anyone seriously considering taking legal action usually doesn't announce it to the world first.

So a business having a legitimate grievance with its supplier is nothing but some "manchildren" that are "throwing a tantrum"?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Either some manchildren are throwing a tantrum again (see the Death From the Skies ban) or this is a lame PR stunt.

Anyone seriously considering taking legal action usually doesn't announce it to the world first.

Or they simply wanted to warn their customers who are about to preorder - frenzy, and no excuse is good without highlighting a course of action to rectify the situation. The only way we will know if they are legitimate is if anything comes of it, but jumping to "manchildren" is just facetious.

I don't think this is the same sort of situation as DFTS, that was simply GW deciding not to sell an item to (wholesale) customers.

This is about fulfilling existing contractual obligations, and whether or not GW has acted in an anti competitive manner while fulfilling an order. An order that they have(most likely) said they will fulfill.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Anyone seriously considering taking legal action usually doesn't announce it to the world first.

I'm inclined to agree with this, actually. If they're going to litigate, they should go ahead and do it.

 Ouze wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Anyone seriously considering taking legal action usually doesn't announce it to the world first.

I'm inclined to agree with this, actually. If they're going to litigate, they should go ahead and do it.

I can see it both ways.

As a customer I don't accept "sorry for taking your money, but we cannot fulfill your preorder) as an excuse, generally I take my money elsewhere.

What I do like to know, is what exactly they are doing to remedy the situation. ie, its not the failure that defines this post, its the way they are handling it, that's just customer service 101. I am not interested in what you can't do, but what you can do.

Now obviously, it will be WORSE for them if they don't follow through. But as it is, what they have said could amount to "We asked our lawyer to review the situation to see if we can seek satisfaction legally" (and if that is what they meant, they have set themselves up for backlash)

I can't see this actually going anywhere.
There is no unequal treatment per se,
GW have three avenues for sales, their own B&M, GW Online, FLGS. each are getting a 1/3 of the total supply.

 marv335 wrote:
each are getting a 1/3 of the total supply.

And you know this because...?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 marv335 wrote:
each are getting a 1/3 of the total supply.

And you know this because...?

Claim by the Combat Company in the first post of this thread. So it must be true!

 marv335 wrote:
I can't see this actually going anywhere.
There is no unequal treatment per se,
GW have three avenues for sales, their own B&M, GW Online, FLGS. each are getting a 1/3 of the total supply.

Not quite the way I see it - so which way a judge might see it is anyone's guess at this time. The distribution cannot be split the way you describe. Some FLGS have online presences too, so either you take the online part out of it entirely and end up with GW = 66.6% of supply, FLGS 33.3%, giving GW what could be argued as unfair advantage, revert to GW=50%, FLGS=50%, or you add the online presence into both sides of the equation. This will give you GW B&M 25%, GW Online 25%, FLGS B&M 25%, and FLGS Online 25% - which does in fact slightly give the advantage to the FLGS that do have an online presence.

As I understand it, the main discrepancy in how GW treats it's FLGS customers is through the T&C's it lays out. To be a retail customer (As opposed to an End User customer like me going into either a GW or FLGS) you must agree to buy X base packs and probably Y extra packs. And right at the time the retail customer expects to make the best return for his custom with GW throughout the rest of the year, GW says "Sorry, can't garantee your order (unless you'd like to go to your nearest GW store and buy them there). That stinks!

Someone at GW should be told "FLGS are our 'Sales Partners', they help us make money all year long and although we don't make as much selling to them as we do to the end user direct, if it wasn't for them helping us, our core games would have gone the way of Specialist Games by now! Stop thinking it's funny to give them a wedgie with every new release, or they'll stop ordering from us and go to one of our competitors instead."

I thought £50 for the new Rip(off)Tide was bad enough, but £70 on the Eldar Wraithknight? What 12 year old kid has that sort of money to throw down, even if the size of it means it's better value than the Riptide? FLGS discounts on GW prices are the only way I could afford to buy any more models from them now, and in the last 12 months I have found models that are superior in detail, design, and background to GW models - even taking into account the leap forward GW plastics, or some of them at least, have taken themselves in the last few years.

 Shandara wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 marv335 wrote:
each are getting a 1/3 of the total supply.

And you know this because...?

Claim by the Combat Company in the first post of this thread. So it must be true!

"Maybe we’ll be able to get 4 of 300 sets that are being brought into Australia. That’s less than 1% of what’s being imported – compared to the whopping 33% they are apparently withholding for their bricks-and-mortar stores and 33% for their Internet and mailorder"

So when you divvy up the 1/3 of it to all the stores, how many GW stores are their cos id say aus/nz has twice as many FLGS as their is B&M GW stores so if each store were to get the same stock levels.... then GW would be taking a lot less than 1/3 for their own stores then ANOTHER 1/3 for their own direct online sales.... because lets be honest the local stores here are gonna get the shaft if at best they can fill agian lets say 1/3 of all orders per store and GW has heeeaaaps of left over stock from it with holding 66% internally.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Shandara wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 marv335 wrote:
each are getting a 1/3 of the total supply.

And you know this because...?

Claim by the Combat Company in the first post of this thread. So it must be true!

"Maybe we’ll be able to get 4 of 300 sets that are being brought into Australia. That’s less than 1% of what’s being imported – compared to the whopping 33% they are apparently withholding for their bricks-and-mortar stores and 33% for their Internet and mailorder"

So when you divvy up the 1/3 of it to all the stores, how many GW stores are their cos id say aus/nz has twice as many FLGS as their is B&M GW stores so if each store were to get the same stock levels.... then GW would be taking a lot less than 1/3 for their own stores then ANOTHER 1/3 for their own direct online sales.... because lets be honest the local stores here are gonna get the shaft if at best they can fill agian lets say 1/3 of all orders per store and GW has heeeaaaps of left over stock from it with holding 66% internally.

If they force FLGS's to order a minimum amount of stock ( a large amount of stock at that ) and encouraging stores to purchase more on the basis that these stores must support the launch, then perhaps these delays will constitute GW failing in their contractual obligations?

 Conrad Turner wrote:
I have found models that are superior in detail, design, and background to GW models

Out of interest what models have superior background to GW? Say what you like about GW but the one thing you cannot dispute is the lore of the 2 game universes. Other than historicals (which obviously come with the background of the entire earth up to that point) I can't think of a single company that comes anywhere near to GW in lore (though I admit some are working towards it)

Now if only independents worldwide would unite together at the same time and go on the attack...

Stranger83 wrote:

 Conrad Turner wrote:
I have found models that are superior in detail, design, and background to GW models

Out of interest what models have superior background to GW? Say what you like about GW but the one thing you cannot dispute is the lore of the 2 game universes. Other than historicals (which obviously come with the background of the entire earth up to that point) I can't think of a single company that comes anywhere near to GW in lore (though I admit some are working towards it)

The amount of lore, has nothing to do with how good it is.

 Conrad Turner wrote:

As I understand it, the main discrepancy in how GW treats it's FLGS customers is through the T&C's it lays out. To be a retail customer (As opposed to an End User customer like me going into either a GW or FLGS) you must agree to buy X base packs and probably Y extra packs. And right at the time the retail customer expects to make the best return for his custom with GW throughout the rest of the year, GW says "Sorry, can't garantee your order (unless you'd like to go to your nearest GW store and buy them there). That stinks!

This is were The Combat Company might have a chance if they do follow on their announcement. This is not a question if GW is a monopoly, the evil empire or the illuminaty, it's a very simple issue if as Conrad said their terms of contract force shops to buy a certain minimum stock of every release GWs does. Supplying their own shops at the expense of the indies and having a sales rep say that due to some undisclosed reasons (assuming is not force majuere) they won't fulfill their side of the bargain would put GW in breach of contract and as such the shops can ask for damages in most countries I know.
Ofc if they wnd up in front of a judge, GW lawyers will argue otherwise and that pitch black is not exactly black but that's why they are paid.

M.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Stranger83 wrote:

 Conrad Turner wrote:
I have found models that are superior in detail, design, and background to GW models

Out of interest what models have superior background to GW? Say what you like about GW but the one thing you cannot dispute is the lore of the 2 game universes. Other than historicals (which obviously come with the background of the entire earth up to that point) I can't think of a single company that comes anywhere near to GW in lore (though I admit some are working towards it)

Mutant Chronicles: Warzone had at it's heyday a pretty extensive and detailed background.

M.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So a business having a legitimate grievance with its supplier is nothing but some "manchildren" that are "throwing a tantrum"?

That is what the white knights will say of course.

Every once and a while GW likes to test the waters:

Do not supply on release day for new codex XXXXXXX to the local stores and fully stock the GW stores.

Are sales going through the roof? = Success! new business model of no supply to local hobby stores.

Are sales really bad? = Grudgingly supply the local stores. Tell them how lucky they are to get the stock that was "found".

Many stores are FAR more capable of selling the product than GW is. If they eventually figure out they are not competitors but great resources to be exploited,,, err,... "utilized" they would see a nice happy spike on their profitability graph.

Surely, if they actually wanted to hurt GW, they'd switch to heavily promoting PP or Mantic with their resources instead rather than going off on a pointless lawsuit that they'll probably lose?

It's not like they don't have options, the wargaming world is not GW or nothing like it was a decade ago.

There's a FLGS almost right next to the GW store where I live. It doesn't sell GW. It does stock Warmachine, Mantic, and a ton of different board and card games, though.

There's always more people in the FLGS than there is in the GW store which looks pretty much barren and empty most of the time compared to the "crammed with kids to the point where you couldn't move" state it was in a decade ago.

It's just anecdotal, but there's a lot of people who just don't care all that much about the whole GW thing anymore (and no, you won't find them whining about prices, or ranting on forums, people who are just apathetic/indifferent/disinterested don't bother)... I know a lot of people in their early 20's who have moved on to CCG's or other stuff mostly and don't haven't used their 40k armies in years, even if they still read the books and enjoy the background.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Surely, if they actually wanted to hurt GW, they'd switch to heavily promoting PP or Mantic with their resources instead rather than going off on a pointless lawsuit that they'll probably lose?

It's not like they don't have options, the wargaming world is not GW or nothing like it was a decade ago.

There's a FLGS almost right next to the GW store where I live. It doesn't sell GW. It does stock Warmachine, Mantic, and a ton of different board and card games, though.

A few things.

1. Theres no telling if they will win or lose. Theres no "Probably" here, I believe that there are untested waters they can explore under Australian law. But GW doesn't have a record of winning lawsuits in Australia that would point to an automatic outcome.

2. These guys don't seem to be promoting anything, they are simply an online retailer trying to get the best outcome for their customers, which is a good thing. I would love for them to go completely without GW product, but we cant argue for their exact business case, they might (like those American stores with the semi recent GW troubles) rely on GW sales for a large part of their income.

If I had pre ordered an eldar battleforce with these guys, I would be far happier with "We are following up with GW using all available methods, including legal options, to get you your product" than "gak, hey. Your order isn't here, why not have some war machine".

 scarletsquig wrote:
Surely, if they actually wanted to hurt GW, they'd switch to heavily promoting PP or Mantic with their resources instead rather than going off on a pointless lawsuit that they'll probably lose?

It's not like they don't have options, the wargaming world is not GW or nothing like it was a decade ago.

Well. I see your point on this, don't get me wrong. But lets say that some non-trivial percentage of all their sales is GWS stock. Lets say 30%. Should they just forgo 30% of their sales due to what they consider are unlawful trading practices? What if that 30% is the margin of viability for them? Should they essentially be forced out of business due to a supplier acting (allegedly) unlawfully?

Because if it's staying open, or closing up shop and seizing the moral high ground...

I don't see any reason why they shouldn't do several things at once. Reduce GWS stock to the minimum they need to not lose market share, sue if they think they can prevail, and slowly push harder on non GWS merch.

I thought they did say that they were stopping promotion/advertisement of GW stuff and were looking to focus on other companies.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Surely, if they actually wanted to hurt GW, they'd switch to heavily promoting PP or Mantic with their resources instead rather than going off on a pointless lawsuit that they'll probably lose?

It's not like they don't have options, the wargaming world is not GW or nothing like it was a decade ago.

Still have to consider the scale GW has in comparison. MiniWarGaming, for example, was rather frank about saying that there'd be no point in running an online-store without GW for example. And they did/do have their premium video-channel and their own miniatures-line to bolster the thin retail-margins. Most retails or e-tailers don't.

I was at GW's UK Games Day last September. The NEC already IS the largest convention centre in the UK and the 2nd largest in Europe. Some 15.000 people capacity and it was packed(!). GBP 30,- just to get in. Angron and that GBP 60,- (?) Horus Heresy book sold out in the first few hours. People were queuing for 2-3 hours just to buy regular GW-stuff (like bags full of IG Chimeras) at full retail. GW couldn've easily filled a larger venue if one existed.

I am willing to bet that GW made more money on that single day in the UK alone than all CMON and Mantic Kickstarter taken together.

I also was at Mantic open day, which indubitably was an awesome event. But it had about 150 visitors max. In an old surgery centre.

GW still is a very different ball-park, far more than the relative strong online-presence of Mantic, PP, Wyrd, etc.. (compared to the inept online-marketing of GW) would lead you to believe.

Actually GW is even way bigger than all competitors put together and that includes Warlord Games, Prtivateer Press and Battlefront.

If they force FLGS's to order a minimum amount of stock ( a large amount of stock at that ) and encouraging stores to purchase more on the basis that these stores must support the launch, then perhaps these delays will constitute GW failing in their contractual obligations?

That´s where it gets interesting. I can confirm that at least in my neck of the woods FLGS and wholesalers are contractually oblieged to order a certain amount of miniatures. Ironically there´s also a top limit of how often and how much they can order. BUT, we also experienced the Tau stock debacle to some degree. So there is quite some orchestrating how much anyone else besides GW gets. And the way it is orchestrated is what stinks. Now, does it stink enough to be legally relevant or do they make use of a legal loophole? Cause any way you look at it, is not what is considered fair business practice.

Well as a new member here (hi all) i'd like to comment on this

I am an ex-GW employee (worked in Nottingham factory for several years) then a GW store manager for 3 years and finally an ex indy store owner, reading this thread has brought out some hilarious comments from people who know nothing about being a store owner. I feel the combat company have raised a serious point here but whether or not GW will actually do anything, it's anyones guess.

As an indy retailer, if you want to start trading with GW (UK) then It's a £2k credit limit to new accounts with the first order of £500 minimum.....what does £2k buy you ? 40, maybe 50 boxes? when i had used my £2k credit limit and wanted to buy more stock and pay cash, yes cash!!, even though i had stock with 30 days from end of month on credit, i still had to clear my account and then i could order more. I wasn't forced to take minimum orders on the bulk of their products though (there are a couple of items you do) besides trying to get multiple items is difficult to say the least but as an indy store owner the only items you get to stock are roughly 30% of what they have as a range now. I used to get a 15 page stocklist printed off and regularly went through it all marking off what i wanted, the last stocklist i got was 2 pages! I remember indys stocking Necromunda, Man O'War, BFG and Warmaster way back but now.......just have a chuckle instead

The GW stock available to indys:-

1. The paint range (literally heavy & hard sales pressure to stock the hobby centre!!) likewise the "offer just for me! buy a full set of paints and get another full set absolutely free!!" fantastic offer if i may say so but only up until the point when a few weeks later they announce their "new" paint range....your free stock just got trashed. And of course if you wanted the new paint stock, the old stock had to go to fit the new stock in the hobby centre......

2. The "fast movers" yeah right, try buying some of the really fast movers and it's "sorry, out of stock" or "they aren't available to indys" Heres a good example of a "fast seller"....i was out of stock of Ork Loota/Burnas so to fill a customer order i nipped into the next town and bought one from the GW store. Hmm... several labels on it...Top price label £15.50...label underneath £15.00, label underneath £13.50 and last label underneath £12.00........fast selling item indeed!

3. White Dwarf - again a hard sell to get you to take them but they do give a sale or return on them (min 6 issues)

4. When it was the norm, trying to buy metal in blisters for stock was a lucky dip, the splash releases were a nightmare too. Even when i asked for some more blister hangers for the racks, i was quizzed as to what i was going to put on them (says it all really)

5. With new releases on the schedule i would take pre-orders then try to fill them. Not a chance. The usual carry on was If i wanted 12, i got 4, if i wanted 6, i got 2, always 1/3 of what i wanted and usually a couple of days after their own stores got them thus cutting me out of the loop for new release day sales. Their own shops were often selling the new releases several days BEFORE they were released!

6. Online sales were a slap in the face!. I had a website and decent Ebay presence and sold a fair bit through them both then came the "no longer allowed to sell online via auction sites" The rep threatened me, said i would lose my account if i did. My own websales were fine but not Ebay etc. Funnily enough though i still see MANY indys selling through Ebay, yet i was the one threatened...hmm...to be honest though, any clown offering GW stock at a discount with free postage on Ebay needs their head examined. Item sold in shop cost £6.66, resale £10, profit £3.34. Sell same item on Ebay with 10% discount you get £8.60 back (fees are 10% & 40p listing as buy now) then its minus the paypal fees of a couple of % then the finale....free postage! hmm, explain to me how you can post the item for free and yet still make a profit? all good and well if you are a power seller and have generous discounts and a postal service contract but the fact remains, no shop will stay in business making less than 10% profit on any item. We all know what happened to Maelstrom Games don't we....

7. When the finecrap came out, trying to get anything off them was really difficult, irrespective of quality issues, why give me a 200+ item stocklist and tell me i could only order 30 items? oh and try sending something back for replacement.....nightmare!

8. Of course, the minute i started putting a dent in my nearest GW shop sales, the complaints started. Ficticious stories, lies and deceitful statements emanated from the local GW store to brainwash their customers into not coming to me. The biggest laugh i got was that i was seling "Stolen GW stock" Stolen from whom? it isnt and never has been worth stealing anything of GW's in my opinion lol. The usual stock deliveries started to take a little longer and there were often many items out of stock thus customers were disappointed which led to them buying online and not coming back so in the end, i just gave up. Anyway what with prices going through the roof, little return for the investment (I carried £15k of GW stock before i stopped it all) and just the hassle of actually trading with them put a sour taste in my mouth. Privateer weren't much better either. Out of stock and oftem mispacked figures were a waste of time. I tried using Simple Miniatures but they charged 5% more than dealing with the proper distributors then when i got a load of stock off them that was already price labelled, im like "WTF??" then i found out they had their own shop so it makes a mockery out of the whole industry when they get distributor price discountss and sell the stuff at retail making far more profit than the LGS ever could.


So...back to the thread now my rant is over lol... I quit the business that i built up over several years and made me maybe £650-700 profit for a good weeks take and after bills etc were paid, i had around half that to claim as a wage. That was 7 day week, opening 9am til 6pm (10pm tue/thu/fri) making a grand working week of 75 hours minimum! I would often get up early or stay in the shop after closing to pack internet and ebay sales and still open up if a customer needed something in the evening (my house was at the rear of the shop) and was frequently dragged out the local pub to open up for a sale! such was my customer service lol. But when you bring that profit down to £300-350 a week, it works out at around £4.00 per hour. Way below minimum wage too i must add. Selling up was a no brainer! there's now a pet store where my shop used to be and Theo, the owner actually plays Warmachine with his son lol! Me?, Nowadays, i'm on the road driving a delivery truck around southern England delivering dairy products, i earn £600 a week for a 48 hour week and i have my evenings and weekends off. no hassle, no customers, no complaints......a truly easier life!. I still play the odd game and paint minis as its something i've always done and i still like to keep up with what's happening in the gaming world but this i do with no worries now.

I do hope that the combat company will carry through their intended "legal action" as i would like to see how it goes but at the end of the day, you are dealing with GW, a company who have no business morals and will probably cut you off completely if you do go ahead. good luck!

Thanks for the rant, gave some good insight into the industry.

To the people arguing "GW can do what they want with their products"

As a manufacturer and a retailer, you are correct. However, once they entered the WHOLESALE and DISTRIBUTOR market, that brings certain legal obligations to avoid favoring one client over any other... even the ones you own.

IF they find these obligations to be unfavorable, they should drop out of the wholesale and distributor business entirely, instead of this 'half-and-half strategy that a) is at best of borderline legality, and b) angers all your wholesale clients, to the point that many of them refuse to deal with you anymore. Stick to direct-order and supplying your own shops and you avoid the issue entirely.

It would be catastrophic for the players... but since when did GW ever care about them?

 Vulcan wrote:
but since when did GW ever care about them?

There was such a time...

The point I'm taking from this is that GW has up until a couple of years ago, been supplying stores regularly with product. These stores are the livlihoods of the owners who helped GW grow it's business and build it's brand down there.
Now the rug is being pulled from under the FLGS's so GW can install it's own brick and mortar stores, taking advantage of all the sacrifice and groundwork that has gone before. This is destroying the livlihood of the store owners who in good faith heavily promoted GW and probably in a lot of cases, made it the major store brand.
It's definitly a rotten trick, having someone, at their own expence and risk, do all their advertising for them and leading them to believe theywould be able to reap the benifits, then turning around and cutting supply when demand has been created, thanks to the efforts of the FLGS's. Basically it seems they are killing off the local stores so they can make more profit by installing their own in an area that has been prepped by others.
I don't know law that well, or even if the scenario I outlined is correct. Any lawyers from down under think there is a case here if the way I laid it out is correct?

My opinion:

I got into 40k primarily for the ease of finding a variety of opponents pretty much anywhere.

Availability of 40k at a FLGS is now drying up due to the stock issues.

Gaming at a GW site is discouraged.

Models are expensive so it eliminates many with less disposable income.

Hosted gaming by GW has been eliminated other than the occasional games day.

They are not hosting any forums or managing fan-base to have a "community".

They aggressively pursue anyone making use of their IP even as a fan.

Unless they back away from these methods I do not see a future in GW surviving, I see "Skylander" miniatures having more market-share.

I am trying to make use of what I have and avoid the new shiny models but I have multiple other game systems that deserve my money more.

I can see where they need to go so clearly and just cannot understand the silliness they are doing. Profits could be so much greater if they just partner with their customers and distributors.

nkelsch wrote:
For example, you know if a Walmart decided, for example, they wanted to refuse service to anyone who appeared Haitian, you know that's not going to fly. And while that's not what happened here, it shows the principle that you can sell to - or not sell to - whomever you like to not all all be an absolute.

Correct. Because that's racial discrimination.

If Apple sends Best Buy a letter that states:

"Hey Best Buy. So the iPhone 6 is coming out. We're keeping 33% of the production run for apple.com, and 33% for our own apple stores. The remaining 33% will be distributed equally to all our third party vendors. That's you, Walmart, and anyone else who signed a contract.Stocks are going to be tight. Once production ramps up, expect more, but for the initial rollout, you're only likely to see 4 units per store. It'll generate some great consumer demand in your marketplace. Use it or lose it."


It's not unethical, or illegal, or anything other than sheer business practice. In fact, if they DIDN'T protect their own store inventories in this way, they'd run afoul of their own shareholders.

daemonhunter187 wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
For example, you know if a Walmart decided, for example, they wanted to refuse service to anyone who appeared Haitian, you know that's not going to fly. And while that's not what happened here, it shows the principle that you can sell to - or not sell to - whomever you like to not all all be an absolute.

Correct. Because that's racial discrimination.

If Apple sends Best Buy a letter that states:

"Hey Best Buy. So the iPhone 6 is coming out. We're keeping 33% of the production run for apple.com, and 33% for our own apple stores. The remaining 33% will be distributed equally to all our third party vendors. That's you, Walmart, and anyone else who signed a contract.Stocks are going to be tight. Once production ramps up, expect more, but for the initial rollout, you're only likely to see 4 units per store. It'll generate some great consumer demand in your marketplace. Use it or lose it."


It's not unethical, or illegal, or anything other than sheer business practice. In fact, if they DIDN'T protect their own store inventories in this way, they'd run afoul of their own shareholders.

Don't forget the part were apple says, "I know you have preorders and can sell it right know, but we are going to hold it in are wearhouse. Until someone buys it from us."

There is a somewhat related story in North Carolina, where the state passed a law that prevents the Tesla car company from using its website to sell cars in the state if it does not have licensed dealerships there. It seems that the government is concerned that companies will cut out local dealerships by selling direct to consumers, and in so doing harm consumers. The argument is that local stores support the community in various ways.

Regardless of where you stand on that debate, it seems rather clear to me that the obvious thing to do if you are a retailer is not to deal with GW. Sales of GW products may be important to the business, but you can't sell products that they will not supply to you. It is probably best to just cut them off, and push other products.

Whether their action is legal or now will depend on exactly how local law is worded (national and/or state where appropriate)

It's clear it's NOT a deliberate move against (only) Australian stores as reports have come in from the United States and the UK of potential shortages of stock for the upcoming Eldar

(and the shortages for the Tau hit GW stores and online as well as independent stockist... although it certainly look like GW store shortages well less than that felt by independent stores)

It's also going to be important to consider how the independants involved get their stock (GW only has a relationship with stores that buy from them direct)

if there are a hypothetical 50 GW stores somewhere and 150 independants, but 100 of those buy their stock from distributors the ratio of GW to Independent would be 1 to 1 (not 1 to 4)

so it's not impossible that a 1/3 to GW, 1/3 to the independents split might be reasonable (I don't know the numbers, so I can't say for sure)

Some legal systems will see the stock going to GW (internet) as separate from that going to the stores, others may not (depending on laws & how the businesses are organised)

Plus of cource the individual contract signed between GW and each individual business (what they have to stock, if they are guaranteed any product when the order it, order limits etc)

So while it's clearly a bad situation (especially for independents who look like not getting the stock they wanted) it's going to be very tricky to figure out whether it's legal or not and doubly hard if we don't know the Australian legal system inside out)

GW's biggest problem is that they want to be both a retailer and a manufacturer.

You don't see Apple acting like Best Buy is robbing from them for selling iPhones.

The two sides of the business should have been split from each other long ago.

A very nasty tactic indeed, especially when peoples livelihoods are on the line. Seems like GW wants to have their cake and eat it too. They should either supply these people in full, or not at all.

A few things on contracts and "price fixing".

It is not uncommon for companies like Apple to tell licensed retailers that they MUST charge MSRP for their products, or risk losing their contract to sell. A few companies do this to a smaller degree in the music equipment field, namely Mesa Boogie and SKB cases. Those companies straight up tell retailers that X is the price, and they cannot change it.

That of course has nothing to do with profit margins and everything to do with brand value. They want their products being seen as high end, and therefore do not allow sellers to discount them at all.

At the same time, Guitar Center could easily drop those brands if they felt it would hurt their sales in some way.

GW is not in a position to play that card. GW cannot afford to lose 3rd party distribution. The WarStore sells more GW product than GW's own site does, which was a major reason that many items went direct only, and why online carts were removed for GW products.

I personally think that GW being a retailer is a terrible idea, and is a waste of their money. What they should be doing is supporting local shops, and finding markets where shops need to open and convince someone to open up there. The remaining money should be spent on marketing and promotions in those stores. Sanctioned events, prize support etc.


Look at Magic the Gathering. EVERY card selling game store has Friday Night Magic, which is sanctioned play, and offers official prize support. Tournaments are put on regularly, as are "drafts" which are a brilliant method of quick easy sales. That game alone keeps many shops open just because of the volume of repeat business as well as the income from those events.

GW is not "the big boy" in gaming. They are perhaps for model gaming, but there are other companies that are far more successful in the geek market who have managed to stay profitable without opening their own stores, and fething with LGS's.

Exactly. Magic is wiping the floor with GW in sales volume. That alone should tell GW they should perhaps consider how WotC handles customer relations might make a good template for their OWN dealings with customers...

I was really sorry to hear about this. Combat Company is my main online shop and I order about 75% of my hobby needs through them. The owner is a great guy and ships really fast (free if it is over $100). He also travels and sets up a big stall at a lot of tournaments.

They offer 20% off GW stuff and that is likely the main reason GW has done what they have. Why they would do this to someone that helps grow the gaming hobby eludes me

daemonhunter187 wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
For example, you know if a Walmart decided, for example, they wanted to refuse service to anyone who appeared Haitian, you know that's not going to fly. And while that's not what happened here, it shows the principle that you can sell to - or not sell to - whomever you like to not all all be an absolute.

Correct. Because that's racial discrimination.

If Apple sends Best Buy a letter that states:

"Hey Best Buy. So the iPhone 6 is coming out. We're keeping 33% of the production run for apple.com, and 33% for our own apple stores. The remaining 33% will be distributed equally to all our third party vendors. That's you, Walmart, and anyone else who signed a contract.Stocks are going to be tight. Once production ramps up, expect more, but for the initial rollout, you're only likely to see 4 units per store. It'll generate some great consumer demand in your marketplace. Use it or lose it."


It's not unethical, or illegal, or anything other than sheer business practice. In fact, if they DIDN'T protect their own store inventories in this way, they'd run afoul of their own shareholders.

Unless of course apple forces, as part of their contract terms, for best buy to pre order 500 phones.

Apple turns up with its contract manager and sells them on more phones.

And best buy orders 2000 phones, all which are snapped up as pre orders.

Now Best buy has leveraged their contract terms with apple, to enter in to 2000 agreements with customers.

now apple, in your example, turns around and says WHOOPSIE DOO we cannot get you the stock that we forced you to purchase at release, nor can we get you the extra stuff that you have also paid for.

I would consider that legal grounds. Also if they can prove malice, which they seem to imply, that has a lot of weight in Australia, as "Fairness" is taken into account with contract law over here.

Gw is doing what every company with a public stock is doing.
They are trying to get by with as little as possible to please the shareholders.
Any company with a stock does not seem to care about anything other than dividends,quality be damed

 Aerethan wrote:

Look at Magic the Gathering. EVERY card selling game store has Friday Night Magic, which is sanctioned play, and offers official prize support. Tournaments are put on regularly, as are "drafts" which are a brilliant method of quick easy sales. That game alone keeps many shops open just because of the volume of repeat business as well as the income from those events.

Please, not again MtG vs 40k comparison. Card games are a different beast with much broader popular appeal than miniatures, and much smaller "effort entry cost" than mini wargames. You don't have to paint, base or prepare your cards any way, you can play them right out of the box (which is why Sealed deck and Draft tournaments exist: it's the most original (and best) way of playing Magic. Obviously, such format would be impossible in miniature wargaming). Generally speaking, TCG's have much higher player turnover than wargames. Players do not get attached to their cards or decks in same way as with miniatures. Also, professional tournament circuit as in MtG could never work in a wargame with free movement. When lots of money is on the line, such unprecision within the ruleset is unacceptable.

The simple fact is that we (Aussies) are ripped off constantly. GW are just the guys who's actions affect gamers but it happens every day with overseas manufacturers. Scuba gear is another example - its all manufactured overseas and the same product purchased in Spain for $250 (AUD) will cost you $600 (AUD) here, and its not the dive shops who are making the mega profits I can assure you.

Many people have commented on this thread that there is no legal basis for Combat Company considering legal action. Maybe in America but we operate under our own legal system and we have strong legislation against anti competitive behaviour designed to protect us as consumers. It's been mentioned a few times on this thread that why shouldn't GW have a monopoly on their own product, well nobody is suggesting GW should give their product away for free nor should they (or could they) be forced to sell their products at discounted prices but if they are deliberately manipulating stock volumes to put legitimate resellers at a competitive disadvantage then Combat Company may be able to make a complaint to the ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commision).

Look, they may have nothing but all they're are really saying is that they are looking in to it.

GW seem to have had a fairly low regard for their Australian consumers for some time now and its not just the prices. Gamesday Australia has been canned .............again and after having a chat with my local GW store manager I was told that as Golden Daemon was inextricably linked to Gamesday Aussies would miss on out on that too. I know we are a small group of consumers compared to US, Europe, UK etc but come on, nothing?...............at all?

As a game store owner I get to deal with the background stuff all the time.

Currently I am not carrying new GW product just because of the fear of not being able to be let to run my business without hassle.

I deal in both second hand GW product and Bitz. The thought of having to prove to GW what I have brought in second hand and what I have bought from them and potentially having my sales account cut off because I happen to sell bitz just turns my stomach.

Oddly enough I happen to have a former GW upper manager as a regular customer and they do not have much good to say about the current sales tactics either. I am told the sales tactics come direct from head office and are applied internally as they are externally in a "comply or forfeit your job" type of manner.

Pure sillyness. GW Wake up. I would like to sell your product...

While I make no bones about paying local prices, whenever I do it it's supporting my FLGS. Generally also with legal issues, I've been on GW's side (I'm still on their side in the chapterhouse case).

But right now?
Go get 'em, Combat Company. Do us Aussies proud.

 marv335 wrote:
I can't see this actually going anywhere.
There is no unequal treatment per se,
GW have three avenues for sales, their own B&M, GW Online, FLGS. each are getting a 1/3 of the total supply.

You're operating on the assumption that those figures reflect their sales. The reality is different. It'd be closer to 10%/40%/50%. By short stocking the FLGS, and overstocking the B & M Stores and direct order, they would most likely be in breach of Australia's Competition and Consumer Act.

daemonhunter187 wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
For example, you know if a Walmart decided, for example, they wanted to refuse service to anyone who appeared Haitian, you know that's not going to fly. And while that's not what happened here, it shows the principle that you can sell to - or not sell to - whomever you like to not all all be an absolute.

Correct. Because that's racial discrimination.

If Apple sends Best Buy a letter that states:

"Hey Best Buy. So the iPhone 6 is coming out. We're keeping 33% of the production run for apple.com, and 33% for our own apple stores. The remaining 33% will be distributed equally to all our third party vendors. That's you, Walmart, and anyone else who signed a contract.Stocks are going to be tight. Once production ramps up, expect more, but for the initial rollout, you're only likely to see 4 units per store. It'll generate some great consumer demand in your marketplace. Use it or lose it."


It's not unethical, or illegal, or anything other than sheer business practice. In fact, if they DIDN'T protect their own store inventories in this way, they'd run afoul of their own shareholders.

1.) Nkelsch didn't say that, I did. You've misquoted the post.

2.) You also cherry picked a single line out of the post and stripped it of all of it's context which is specifically and explicitly refuting the notion that you then added to the end. There is such a thing as unfair trade practices, and while I don't know if GWS did or did not violate them, I do know they exist. It's not so black and white as "they can sell to whomever they like, or not, at their whim and discretion".

RogueRegault wrote:

You don't see Apple acting like Best Buy is robbing from them for selling iPhones.

Well actually, they are currently under EU investigation whether their retail policy is fair & legal.

Backfire wrote:
Well actually, they are currently under EU investigation whether their retail policy is fair & legal.

This is good news!

 Eisenhorn wrote:

Any company with a stock does not seem to care about anything other than dividends,quality be damed

That's often repeated and simply not true.

Dividends are actually not issued by the majority of publicly traded stocks, so it's obviously false.

 frozenwastes wrote:
Dividends are actually not issued by the majority of publicly traded stocks, so it's obviously false.

Depends on the market, in Aus they are due to full franking

Interestingly enough, depending on just what sort of level of dominance GW has in the marketplace, GW could conceivably be guilty of violating anti-trust laws in the US as well, but thus far, no one has ever pressed the issue, that I know of.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Interestingly enough, depending on just what sort of level of dominance GW has in the marketplace, GW could conceivably be guilty of violating anti-trust laws in the US as well, but thus far, no one has ever pressed the issue, that I know of.

They are close but not quite yet. Give them time and they will hang themselves with their own level of arrogance.

 AgeOfEgos wrote:
If this wasn't just a sales rep spouting the corporate reply after the Tau issue (Never let them assume an order will be filled a new release from this point on)---AND they truly have distribution issues again--I think the more interesting question would be; Why is GW suddenly having this issue?

Are they reaping the last several years of "fat trimming"?
Are they scaling back production to keep growth more stable/limited?
Are they experiencing raw material issues?
Or is this just two coincidental shortages (If this one pans out)?

The common factor: Xenos.

"Gee, you think people are tired of more marines?" ya think!
Or could it be that tau and eldar had a lot of pent up demand in the YEARS they never got good updates.

Silly rabbit, not everyone wants humans to play... now give us some freakin xenos terrain!

GW forces retailers to buy quite abit of stock in their trade agreements, you would think they would hold up their end of the deal and actually give their retailer the new stock items...
=/

davethepak wrote:
Silly rabbit, not everyone wants humans to play... now give us some freakin xenos terrain!

When they do finally recognize there's a demand for themed terrain they'll probably release limited quantity kits. In Finecast. At twice the price of the plastic terrain.

 Lockark wrote:
GW forces retailers to buy quite abit of stock in their trade agreements, you would think they would hold up their end of the deal and actually give their retailer the new stock items...
=/

You underestimate the depths of dickishness GW will sink to. Anything for an extra fething buck, apparently.

Slipstream wrote:
Now if only independents worldwide would unite together at the same time and go on the attack...

We have made an offer previously, on this subject.

sarduka42 wrote:I agree, but... Isn't this what Apple does. Apple advises of the price that want it sold for and if the retailers sells it for a discount without Apples permission then Apple tears up the distribution contract?

From what I've read, Apple sells their product at 10% off, and if you sell everything at their MSRP throughout the year, they give a 'bonus' of 20% for all stock moved through the year (eg, 30% off if you sell at MSRP, 10% off if you discount).

The underlying problem is this:

Generally, when you open up a trade account with a supplier, you enter into a legal contract in which, the trade account holder MUST buy the supplier's products and the supplier MUST supply the product to the trade account holder. More often than not, there is usually some sort of "membership fee" (so to say) involved in such contract. In this specific case, independent retailers must have X amount in stock and must buy X amount from GW. It would be one thing if GW simply didnt have anymore in stock to fulfill the retailer's orders. However, GW is simply withholding the stock for their own purposes.

I'm no lawyer, but when a supplier enters into a contract to supply the goods, but does not do so while holding an exclusive control over the supply is indeed deemed as a monopoly. IMO, what GW is currently doing is to make the independent suppliers be fed up with GW so that they null the trade account contract from their end, rather than GW terminating the contracts themselves (since there will be compensations involved). Once there are no more trade account holders left, they will be the sole supplier/seller of their own products. Therefore, they will no longer monopolize the market for GW products by definition (since you can't monopolize your own products). Viola! no more legal liabilities for monopoly!

To be fair GW do have to protect themselves from the current Flying Assault Butts craze that is sweeping the Globe.

I approve...this is great news!

There are also often rather tough penalties for suppliers that fail to meet demand. In the case of Wal-mart, inc, for example, a supplier getting the paperwork wrong is grounds for a several thousand dollar fine.

Has there been any update on this?

I would like to know if GW is still saying "Spread the stock around"

With the printed version of the Iyanden supplement (the same price as Codex: Eldar in the UK) being direct only, that should be another point to add to the argument, right?

The problem here is they order stock and are having it held back. The issue in determining whether or not this a legal issue is because GW is the manufacturer. If there was an agreement for jbhifi to have an order filled by sony, but all the stock went to dick smith and jb were made to wait months, is that a trade issue or just a reason to not promote that product?

Gw problem is markup. Same as adobe. But... because they run it (no one seriously uses final cut pro anymore) places like aus get screwed. I built my own tower for 3grand and bought cs6 master collection (digital download), the markup alone excluding taxes, meant if I flew to the US, shopped, and stayed for 3 nights at 300 a day, I would of saved money.

Very similar issue here, but definitely more about placing an order and it not being delivered as promised. Would depend on the fine lines in the wholesale to retail contracts.

I saw something like this regarding the High Elf release here in the SF Bay Area. Two of the FLGS I frequent had their initial shipments for the first day of sales for the new stuff delayed and didn't get them till a week later. Out of curiosity I walked by the local GW store (where I'm not welcome for using models that are not GW for 40k) and looked in the front door. Sure enough they had all of the new releases for the High Elves out on display right by the front door. I can't prove anything but, after reading this thread, I have the feeling that this is happening all over the world and is GW's SOP when it comes to their product.