Bullockist wrote: They are an evil conspiracy designed by communists to destablise the US , there, I got in before anyone else could don their tinfoil hat.
aclive wrote: I am a Brother as well. Feel free to ask any questions!
I won't ask about rituals and all that, cuz I know you wont give an answer, but I do have this one serious question:
As a person who has often thought about joining, what could I expect to "gain" out of joining the Freemasons?
I've not long entered having only been to 2 meetings, though one thing I can guarantee is how good you'll feel about yourself after doing so.
I've had a rough time in various stages of life and had got used to there always being a couple of ass holes in the room that were ready to bring you down, though I've found that in masonry the opposite is true as everyone is there to help and support you as a person. I can honestly say that the masons I've met are the most genuinely lovely people I have ever crossed paths with & can't recommend it enough if you want to join.
aclive wrote: I am a Brother as well. Feel free to ask any questions!
I won't ask about rituals and all that, cuz I know you wont give an answer, but I do have this one serious question:
As a person who has often thought about joining, what could I expect to "gain" out of joining the Freemasons?
I've not long entered having only been to 2 meetings, though one thing I can guarantee is how good you'll feel about yourself after doing so.
I've had a rough time in various stages of life and had got used to there always being a couple of ass holes in the room that were ready to bring you down, though I've found that in masonry the opposite is true as everyone is there to help and support you as a person. I can honestly say that the masons I've met are the most genuinely lovely people I have ever crossed paths with & can't recommend it enough if you want to join.
How difficult is it to actually join the Freemasons? For that matter, how would one actually go about joining? What kinds of fees are involved (as I imagine you couldn't do this kind of organization without some kind of fees)?
The free masons are a fraternal order supposedly an offshoot from the Knights Templar (no, seriously). Basically they're the longest running club in existence. Members tend to use the club to network, thus the tendency of members to gravitate toward positions of authority outside the club, because they had help from their pals inside the club. It used to be a lot more exclusive than it is today, membership at one point being hereditary. They're subject to rumor at a rate only exceeded by the Catholic Church, because much of the highest ranks is still cloaked in ritual and secrecy, and tends to be were the wealthiest members can be found.
Stop by your local Masonic Temple and look for yourself, most of the ones in my area are largely open to the public.
It is a group of people that get together and talk about things, and it is not a political party or a business. It is also a secret society meaning that they don't tell outsiders what they talk about. It is the last part that gets some people, as often times people assume if you are being secretive that must mean you are up to no good. It also happens to be a very old group, which just adds fuel to the fire for the imaginative.
Ahtman has the right of it. It is just a networking group that gets together to discuss the community they live in. They have a great deal of secrecy only as a way to attract members.
Automatically Appended Next Post: 90% of the time we just talk about how we allocate charity dollars and how we can grow our group
Blokus wrote: Ahtman has the right of it. It is just a networking group that gets together to discuss the community they live in. They have a great deal of secrecy only as a way to attract members.
Automatically Appended Next Post: 90% of the time we just talk about how we allocate charity dollars and how we can grow our group
I am really unimpressed with the reality of freemasonry Now back to talking about men in aprons and how they managed to get their iconography on US money, and how the great architect is satan, and about how they cast spells, and about how they rule the world, and ....probably something about jews as well.
Blokus wrote: Ahtman has the right of it. It is just a networking group that gets together to discuss the community they live in. They have a great deal of secrecy only as a way to attract members.
Automatically Appended Next Post: 90% of the time we just talk about how we allocate charity dollars and how we can grow our group
I am really unimpressed with the reality of freemasonry Now back to talking about men in aprons and how they managed to get their iconography on US money, and how the great architect is satan, and about how they cast spells, and about how they rule the world, and ....probably something about jews as well.
Erm... do you think they know who are the Shamans who's going to herald The Emporer when he reveals himself?
My Grandad was the Grand Poobah or whatever it was called. It was a silly name but basically meant he headed up the branch for our state.
From what he described, it was basically a charitable foundation, using member donations and society assets to do good works in the community. I asked about networking once and he said that if you were connected enough to get in to a real position in the organisation, then you weren't going to get any more connected, and people who join just to get connected don't last long before the good works get tiring.
Blokus wrote: Ahtman has the right of it. It is just a networking group that gets together to discuss the community they live in. They have a great deal of secrecy only as a way to attract members.
Automatically Appended Next Post: 90% of the time we just talk about how we allocate charity dollars and how we can grow our group
I am really unimpressed with the reality of freemasonry Now back to talking about men in aprons and how they managed to get their iconography on US money, and how the great architect is satan, and about how they cast spells, and about how they rule the world, and ....probably something about jews as well.
Erm... do you think they know who are the Shamans who's going to herald The Emporer when he reveals himself?
Or is it the Scientology crew?
I'm not sure, Zoroastrianism might be your best bet.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
sebster wrote: My Grandad was the Grand Poobah or whatever it was called. It was a silly name but basically meant he headed up the branch for our state.
From what he described, it was basically a charitable foundation, using member donations and society assets to do good works in the community. I asked about networking once and he said that if you were connected enough to get in to a real position in the organisation, then you weren't going to get any more connected, and people who join just to get connected don't last long before the good works get tiring.
I don't want to get connected Sebster , I want to wear an apron whilst casting spells that bring down the US govt. Do you think I have a chance of making Great Poobah?
That's it? Then is there some kind of initiation or test of some sort? I doubt specifics can be detailed, but I mean just in general.
Yes. There are more requirements than simply knowing a mason, of course. In the U.S. at least you are required to believe in a supreme being of some kind.
Anything that would be discussed here could have just as easily been found on wikipedia, but I guess we need to get our post counts up somehow.
aclive wrote: I am a Brother as well. Feel free to ask any questions!
I won't ask about rituals and all that, cuz I know you wont give an answer, but I do have this one serious question:
As a person who has often thought about joining, what could I expect to "gain" out of joining the Freemasons?
I've not long entered having only been to 2 meetings, though one thing I can guarantee is how good you'll feel about yourself after doing so.
I've had a rough time in various stages of life and had got used to there always being a couple of ass holes in the room that were ready to bring you down, though I've found that in masonry the opposite is true as everyone is there to help and support you as a person. I can honestly say that the masons I've met are the most genuinely lovely people I have ever crossed paths with & can't recommend it enough if you want to join.
How difficult is it to actually join the Freemasons? For that matter, how would one actually go about joining? What kinds of fees are involved (as I imagine you couldn't do this kind of organization without some kind of fees)?
It's not difficult, it's just a long process, though I guess it's down to whether you know anyone personally or if you have to introduce yourself anonymously. For me, my best mates one so he introduced me. I don't honestly know how "easy" it would be to get in if you don't know one directly. As for fees, there are annual subs though I don't know if they vary by location / country. Best to ask your local lodge. If you want to join, I'd recommend contacting your Grand Lodge (for the uk the site is http://www.ugle.org.uk/) and ask where your local lodge is. From there, make a phone call and ask to meet them. If however you know one already, speak to them.
Bullockist wrote: I don't want to get connected Sebster , I want to wear an apron whilst casting spells that bring down the US govt. Do you think I have a chance of making Great Poobah?
Ah well I wouldn't know anything about that. I learnt all my spells through Advanced Dungeons and Dragons.
Essentially the body of Freemasonry exists to give men of good character who believe in some form of higher
power an opportunity to study certain ancient, esoteric principles. Masons believe these principles constitute a '
hidden science' that explains the fundamentals of pretty much everything. These principles are transmitted to
the mason by means of a process called 'inititation.'
Much of the information is explained by means of symbolism. As an example, the well known masonic symbol
of the square and compass with the G in the middle is a pretty straightforward representation of one of masonry's
central esoteric teachings: sacred geometry. The G stands for God/Grand Architect or Geometry, interchangeably.
Here is a high-level mason, Randall Carlson, talking about the principles of sacred geometry:
The charity thing is really just a way of justifying their existence to people who get too curious. They're not some scary,
power-hungry order bent on world domination, but they're also not just a club for old rich guys.
So a bunch of cloud cuckoo landers? Meh, if they're not up to anything terrible and their members are decent people then I don't see an issue. I mean the ideas of the organisation may be a tad silly, but plenty of good people are into crazy things too. =P
Hey, and at least they're into exclusivity and not shoveling their message down other's throats.
The Freemasons are the modern incarnation of the Knights Templar. They're after the Pieces of Eden so they can harness their power and rule humanity - they kidnap people descended from Assassins and plug them into the Animus and use their genetic memories to find the pieces.
If you're religious, you might want to see if your church is okay with you becoming a Mason. It's not like they can prevent you from doing so, but some churches definitely frown on it.
Catholics have the Knights of Columbus, which are more or less an officially sanctioned, less secretive Catholic version of the Freemasonry.
My granddad's a Freemason. I want nothing to do with it. It's just a jumped up, "no gurlz allowded" super secret special snowflake club for misogynistic old men to grumble about stuff and pat each other on the back whilst pretending they're somehow relevant. Basically exactly the same as the Illuminati, but somehow even less important.
Squigsquasher wrote: My granddad's a Freemason. I want nothing to do with it. It's just a jumped up, "no gurlz allowded" super secret special snowflake club for misogynistic old men to grumble about stuff and pat each other on the back whilst pretending they're somehow relevant. Basically exactly the same as the Illuminati, but somehow even less important.
This is the general vibe I've gotten from them as well...
Bullockist wrote: They are an evil conspiracy designed by communists to destablise the US , there, I got in before anyone else could don their tinfoil hat.
You forgot to add Jewish and Marxist to that list. Right now I'm reading a book about Franco's justifications for starting the Spanish Civil War hence the connection.
A lot of the suspicion towards Freemason comes from their supposed prominent role during the French Revolution.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Squigsquasher wrote: My granddad's a Freemason. I want nothing to do with it. It's just a jumped up, "no gurlz allowded" super secret special snowflake club for misogynistic old men to grumble about stuff and pat each other on the back whilst pretending they're somehow relevant. Basically exactly the same as the Illuminati, but somehow even less important.
Men have been wanting time away from their wife/girlfriends since the dawn of time, so the Freemasons can't take the blame for that aspect of their society!
"Proofs of a Conspiracy" by Robison was the book that "exposed" the Illuminati and tied them to Freemasonry and accused them of all kinds of anti-church and anti-monarchy stuff. I actually was able to read an original copy in my university library, which was an interesting experience. There sure were lots of long "S"s. Anyway, yeah, it was basically the world's first big crazy conspiracy book.
Essentially the body of Freemasonry exists to give men of good character who believe in some form of higher
power an opportunity to study certain ancient, esoteric principles. Masons believe these principles constitute a '
hidden science' that explains the fundamentals of pretty much everything. These principles are transmitted to
the mason by means of a process called 'inititation.'
Much of the information is explained by means of symbolism. As an example, the well known masonic symbol
of the square and compass with the G in the middle is a pretty straightforward representation of one of masonry's
central esoteric teachings: sacred geometry. The G stands for God/Grand Architect or Geometry, interchangeably.
Here is a high-level mason, Randall Carlson, talking about the principles of sacred geometry:
The charity thing is really just a way of justifying their existence to people who get too curious. They're not some scary,
power-hungry order bent on world domination, but they're also not just a club for old rich guys.
That guy is an evil wizard if I ever saw one. Proof that freemasons are satanic.
Essentially the body of Freemasonry exists to give men of good character who believe in some form of higher
power an opportunity to study certain ancient, esoteric principles. Masons believe these principles constitute a '
hidden science' that explains the fundamentals of pretty much everything. These principles are transmitted to
the mason by means of a process called 'inititation.'
Much of the information is explained by means of symbolism. As an example, the well known masonic symbol
of the square and compass with the G in the middle is a pretty straightforward representation of one of masonry's
central esoteric teachings: sacred geometry. The G stands for God/Grand Architect or Geometry, interchangeably.
Here is a high-level mason, Randall Carlson, talking about the principles of sacred geometry:
The charity thing is really just a way of justifying their existence to people who get too curious. They're not some scary,
power-hungry order bent on world domination, but they're also not just a club for old rich guys.
That guy is an evil wizard if I ever saw one. Proof that freemasons are satanic.
GG
...What? He's just a guy with a theory and a love of shapes, both natural and artificial.
See, I haven't got a problem with the esoteric/free thinking/blending of mythology and science side of Freemasonry-in fact I think it's a very healthy way of thinking. My problem is with the super special snowflake/misogynistic side of the order (no women allowed, for example).
I fail to understand how a theory on a natural inclination towards geometry in the universe can possibly be equated to Satanism. It's not even that esoteric/supernatural-it's just maths when it comes down to it.
I was invited to join the masons (or rather, invited to make inquiry of a senior local mason to join, as apparently you can't be invited or something...) and I went along and met some of the men there. My great uncle, who was an amazingly good and decent bloke, had been a high up with them back in the day, so perhaps it was partially hereditary.
Senior local police, religious leaders, local councilors, wealthy land owners, businessmen etc. They were extremely keen to have me join up and on going along to the first introduction, it was clear why, they were all ancient, no-one under 50 and many tottering about in their 70s and 80s.
I was told I'd need to buy a dinner suit, then questioned about my beliefs and convictions. I answered honestly and we reached an impasse, I would not swear allegiance to the Queen or to any monotheistic god. I had come along to see if this organisation would benefit my career and out of curiosity, on both counts I realized the masons in my small town were a dining club of old men who never got speeding tickets or parking tickets and scratched each other's backs in small business, none of which interested me.
I also played D&D on Wednesday nights and joining would have meant giving that up, so I politely declined further meetings.
This is the problem alot of lodges are having. Alot of older men are leaving and no new guys are coming in. I happen to belong to the youngest lodge in my area with 15 members under 30 and another 30 under 40. Even though i have only been in for a short time I have noticed it is far more then a bunch of old men getting together for chats and avoiding tickets. It is about teaching men to help each other and the rest of the world by doing good deeds for each other and their community.
Masons don't engage in self engrandisement meaning all the good we don't attach our names to it. All the money we raise for schools and the poor and destitute is given freely with no desire for praise or thanks. It is done becaus eit is the right thing to do.
BrotherChaplinMalus wrote: This i sthe problem alot of lodges are having. Alot of older men are leaving and no new guys are coming in. I happen to belong to the youngest lodge in my area with 15 members under 30 and another 30 under 40. Even though i have only been in for a short time I have noticed it is far more then a bunch of old men getting together for chats and avoiding tickets. It is about teaching men to help each other and the rest of the world by doing good deeds for each other and their community.
Having joined the Art of Manliness community, I think that what many of these older groups are not necessarily failing to do, but are... is in staying relevant in the modern world. Many young people these days just don't seem to learn the value of a good face to face friendship, and a decent sized circle of people to turn to. In it's most basic form, this is what groups like the Elks, Masons and others offer their members.
Sure, as MGS pointed out, their are certain under the table benefits, like no tickets or business opportunities available to some. I had joined a cigar club a while back that was in a similar situation... I was the youngest guy there, but I felt like a freaking sponge in there... Lawyers, retired vets, cops, teachers... nearly all walks of life in there; and basically, if you needed anything that one of them could help with, all you had to do was ask. Of course, with the lawyers, nothing was free, but you MAY get a small discount for being a cigar man.
BrotherChaplinMalus wrote: This i sthe problem alot of lodges are having. Alot of older men are leaving and no new guys are coming in. I happen to belong to the youngest lodge in my area with 15 members under 30 and another 30 under 40. Even though i have only been in for a short time I have noticed it is far more then a bunch of old men getting together for chats and avoiding tickets. It is about teaching men to help each other and the rest of the world by doing good deeds for each other and their community.
I was entirely impressed with the literature I was given, about the charity works being done by the masons worldwide, but my local lodge was a) ultraconservative and therefore at odds with my political beliefs, b) only did charitable works with 'sympathetic' causes c) seemed entirely more focused on being a diner's club, c) religion heavy and I'm not a monotheist so at odds with my religious beliefs.
It did seem very 'networking' heavy, to me, and whilst that might have appealed to my urge to advance my career and income, they were more about getting off parking tickets or trading with each other at mate's rates.
What became clear as I looked about was that these guys were the old networking, and that as someone capable of navigating the series of tubes known as the internet, I was already part of the new networking.
I was also deeply distressed to find this was not a front for the submariners, a secret cult of shining ones, dedicated to serving the deep dwelling eldritch horrors of antiquity, as I'd been led to believe by reading Finn in 2000AD...
MGS I have to take issue with what you are saying. Not about your beliefs but what the lodge was doing. One of the appealing things in Masonary is that it takes all men reguardless of creed, race, or political views and all these things are to be sat aside once lodge has opened. They should NOT be donating only to certain causes that match their morals nor should the espouse one religion over another.
The religion parts really gets my goat because i held back for a long time about asking becuase i am not a christian. Once i asked and had talked to a few Masons i learned you just have to believe in somethign higher than yourself. Believe that this world is not governed by chaos and that is a pattern in nature.
That isn't true. Even in the thread it was stated you have to believe in a higher power, so atheists and certain religions are ineligible right off the bat. You even say it in your post.
I had a few family members in the organization. Apparently at least one of them was rather important since once he kicked the bucket they had a really fancy funeral service at the Mason lodge for him (I was too young to remember most of it, but there was a lot of talk about colors and symbols in their logo and what they represented/how he lived up to them or something like that).
I thought a few times about joining up over the years, having a relative that was on the inside already might have helped back when it was more relevant. It always comes down to the decision that I probably wouldn't actually enjoy it that much. I can do cheritable contributions/work through other organizations where the average member is somewhat more similar to me in age/personality.
Also, I'd just like to add that I highly approve of "old networking". Someday I'd love to be at the point in my career where I could just look around a room somewhere and be like "these are the most prominent men in my field. I'm friends with all of them. Now I'm going to go smoke a cigar and twirl my mustache, then invite some people to play golf."
demented wombat;
he didn't have to a higher up for the funeral. All he needed to be was a Mason.
Ahtman:
And I have sat in lodge with a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist, and an Agnostic all at the same. There is a lill bit more to the creed part that i left. Before you ever step foot in the lodge itself you are asked 4 things and any no answer to any of them stops you on the spot.
1) Do you believe in (a)God
2)Are you joining of your own free will?
3)You are of an upright and moral person
4) and are you willing to submit to the rules of this lodge
As I said a no answer to any of these 4 stop you from becoming a Mason.
BrotherChaplinMalus wrote: demented wombat;
he didn't have to a higher up for the funeral. All he needed to be was a Mason.
Ahtman:
And I have sat in lodge with a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist, and an Agnostic all at the same. There is a lill bit more to the creed part that i left. Before you ever step foot in the lodge itself you are asked 4 things and any no answer to any of them stops you on the spot.
1) Do you believe in (a)God Define belief. 2)Are you joining of your own free will? If I were inclined to, then yes 3)You are of an upright and moral person One man's morals are another's treason 4) and are you willing to submit to the rules of this lodge See 2 As I said a no answer to any of these 4 stop you from becoming a Mason.
Other than that I find the whole idea of 'secret' societies rather amusing.
BrotherChaplinMalus wrote: This i sthe problem alot of lodges are having. Alot of older men are leaving and no new guys are coming in. I happen to belong to the youngest lodge in my area with 15 members under 30 and another 30 under 40. Even though i have only been in for a short time I have noticed it is far more then a bunch of old men getting together for chats and avoiding tickets. It is about teaching men to help each other and the rest of the world by doing good deeds for each other and their community.
I was entirely impressed with the literature I was given, about the charity works being done by the masons worldwide, but my local lodge was a) ultraconservative and therefore at odds with my political beliefs, b) only did charitable works with 'sympathetic' causes c) seemed entirely more focused on being a diner's club, c) religion heavy and I'm not a monotheist so at odds with my religious beliefs.
It did seem very 'networking' heavy, to me, and whilst that might have appealed to my urge to advance my career and income, they were more about getting off parking tickets or trading with each other at mate's rates.
What became clear as I looked about was that these guys were the old networking, and that as someone capable of navigating the series of tubes known as the internet, I was already part of the new networking.
I was also deeply distressed to find this was not a front for the submariners, a secret cult of shining ones, dedicated to serving the deep dwelling eldritch horrors of antiquity, as I'd been led to believe by reading Finn in 2000AD...
Still can't believe you wouldn't swear allegiance to the Queen...
Sturmtruppen wrote: The Freemasons are the modern incarnation of the Knights Templar. They're after the Pieces of Eden so they can harness their power and rule humanity - they kidnap people descended from Assassins and plug them into the Animus and use their genetic memories to find the pieces.
This is ridiculous... that's just a smokescreen story they use to hide their real goal, which is to break the seal on the wizard-locked gates on the far side of the moon to unleash the antichrist, so he can go about the process of reducing the world's population to under 500 million in accordance with the georgia guidestones. China's ICBM attack on a satellite a few years ago was actually an effort by them to prevent the US from deploying a harmonic resonance device intended to open the gates.
BrotherChaplinMalus wrote: Ahtman:
And I have sat in lodge with a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist, and an Agnostic all at the same. There is a lill bit more to the creed part that i left. Before you ever step foot in the lodge itself you are asked 4 things and any no answer to any of them stops you on the spot.
1) Do you believe in (a)God
2)Are you joining of your own free will?
3)You are of an upright and moral person
4) and are you willing to submit to the rules of this lodge
As I said a no answer to any of these 4 stop you from becoming a Mason.
This continues to argue that your statement "it takes all men reguardless of creed, race, or political views" is not quite accurate. While the latter two may be true, and I would suspect that political views would depend on the local lodge to be honest, it certainly doesn't take 'all creeds'. Again, I notice you didn't list atheist as being there. This isn't an attack on the group, as it may select members as it likes, but it doesn't take all people.
I have to imagine that the first question has to be a bit loose, since Buddhists don't believe in (a) God. You could jump through a bit of hoops to get to 'a higher power', but that isn't the same thing. A Buddha, nor The Buddha, is not a god.
This is ridiculous... that's just a smokescreen story they use to hide their real goal, which is to break the seal on the wizard-locked gates on the far side of the moon to unleash the antichrist, so he can go about the process of reducing the world's population to under 500 million in accordance with the georgia guidestones. China's ICBM attack on a satellite a few years ago was actually an effort by them to prevent the US from deploying a harmonic resonance device intended to open the gates.
Ok i actually loled on this
Automatically Appended Next Post: One could also argue that being an atheist is a lack of a creed. On the Bhuddist part I will admit i myself was confusing having researched it in my heady younger days but there are some cultures around india that worship bhudda as a god so meh
BrotherChaplinMalus wrote: One of the appealing things in Masonary is that it takes all men reguardless of creed, race, or political views and all these things are to be sat aside once lodge has opened
And yet they do not accept women of any race, creed or political view.
BrotherChaplinMalus wrote: One of the appealing things in Masonary is that it takes all men reguardless of creed, race, or political views and all these things are to be sat aside once lodge has opened
And yet they do not accept women of any race, creed or political view.
The Wiki article goes a bit into who gets accepted.
And yet they do not accept women of any race, creed or political view.
So?
It's not a public institution, so they don't have to allow anyone they dont like in. Don't like it? don't join up then. As usual, it really is that easy.
BrotherChaplinMalus wrote: MGS I have to take issue with what you are saying. Not about your beliefs but what the lodge was doing. One of the appealing things in Masonary is that it takes all men reguardless of creed, race, or political views and all these things are to be sat aside once lodge has opened. They should NOT be donating only to certain causes that match their morals nor should the espouse one religion over another.
The religion parts really gets my goat because i held back for a long time about asking becuase i am not a christian. Once i asked and had talked to a few Masons i learned you just have to believe in somethign higher than yourself. Believe that this world is not governed by chaos and that is a pattern in nature.
That is not what I was told, I was told you must believe in the higher power, God, therefore you may be a Christian, a Jew, a Muslim, but you could not be, say, a Hindu or a Wiccan or an agnostic or something, you must believe in a single creator God.
Perhaps it varies from lodge to lodge? I was attending one in the rural South West of the UK, so perhaps it's a deal more 'stodgy'? As I mentioned, it was full of exceptionally old blokes and seemed to be on it's last legs.
As to the charities, it was things like hospices, children's charities and upper middle class community projects etc but I was slapped on the back at the lodge bar and told 'but don't worry, we don't give money to junkies, tree huggers or scroungers, only worthy causes', which frankly made my skin crawl.
BrotherChaplinMalus wrote: Ahtman:
And I have sat in lodge with a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist, and an Agnostic all at the same. There is a lill bit more to the creed part that i left. Before you ever step foot in the lodge itself you are asked 4 things and any no answer to any of them stops you on the spot.
1) Do you believe in (a)God
2)Are you joining of your own free will?
3)You are of an upright and moral person
4) and are you willing to submit to the rules of this lodge
As I said a no answer to any of these 4 stop you from becoming a Mason.
This continues to argue that your statement "it takes all men reguardless of creed, race, or political views" is not quite accurate. While the latter two may be true, and I would suspect that political views would depend on the local lodge to be honest, it certainly doesn't take 'all creeds'. Again, I notice you didn't list atheist as being there. This isn't an attack on the group, as it may select members as it likes, but it doesn't take all people.
I have to imagine that the first question has to be a bit loose, since Buddhists don't believe in (a) God. You could jump through a bit of hoops to get to 'a higher power', but that isn't the same thing. A Buddha, nor The Buddha, is not a god.
Regarding the first point, it's not just about saying "I belong to religion abc and I pray every xyz". The easiest way to understand this is to think of God as an all encompassing Supreme Being. Someone that you believe you will answer to when you die. This is, to my basic understanding, more of acknowledging that you must be accountable for your actions. "God" to me is no more than a job title, it doesn't mean that you have to Christian, Jewish, Muslim (the list goes on); it means, I guess, that you put someone / thing else above yourself.
If any Masons here would like to pick up on the above and hopefully explain it better, please feel free to do so!
Squigsquasher wrote:
BrotherChaplinMalus wrote: One of the appealing things in Masonary is that it takes all men reguardless of creed, race, or political views and all these things are to be sat aside once lodge has opened
And yet they do not accept women of any race, creed or political view.
That's not right, we have The Order of the Eastern Star. Women aren't a part of "regular lodges" for whatever reason, though they're also not a part of many golf clubs, Working Mens Clubs, and no doubt many other organisations that I can't think of. I'm not saying it's right or that it's wrong, though in summary, there are women in Freemasonry.
kitch102 wrote: Regarding the first point, it's not just about saying "I belong to religion abc and I pray every xyz". The easiest way to understand this is to think of God as an all encompassing Supreme Being. Someone that you believe you will answer to when you die. This is, to my basic understanding, more of acknowledging that you must be accountable for your actions. "God" to me is no more than a job title, it doesn't mean that you have to Christian, Jewish, Muslim (the list goes on); it means, I guess, that you put someone / thing else above yourself.
Again, this just lays out a binary relationship (believing in a higher power versus not believing in a higher power) that would mean that they, in fact, do not take any man of any creed, as some men's creed disallows a belief in a higher power. This isn't a slam against them, or a criticism, just a recognition that the statement "we take any man" is not accurate.
- A system of Christian or other religious belief; a faith.
- A formal statement of Christian beliefs, esp. the Apostles' Creed or the Nicene Creed.
To be an atheist is by it's very definition to be without creed, so when it's said that "we take men from all creeds", every word spoken is there is honest & true.
- A system of Christian or other religious belief; a faith.
- A formal statement of Christian beliefs, esp. the Apostles' Creed or the Nicene Creed.
To be an atheist is by it's very definition to be without creed, so when it's said that "we take men from all creeds", every word spoken is there is honest & true.
Only if you limit yourself to a narrow definition and avoid all others, such as this one from Wikipedia that is more inclusive:
A creed is a statement of belief, in particular a statement of faith that describes the beliefs shared by a religious community. Religious creeds are not intended to be comprehensive, but to be a summary of core beliefs. The term "creed" can also refer to a person's political or social beliefs, or is sometimes used to mean religious affiliation.
Or how about Merriam Webster, take a good long look at number two:
1: a brief authoritative formula of religious belief
2: a set of fundamental beliefs; also : a guiding principle
You'll notice that it doesn't require religious belief.
How about Dictionary.com?
1. any system, doctrine, or formula of religious belief, as of a denomination.
2.any system or codification of belief or of opinion.
It seems number two is once again absent of religious criteria.
The word certainly has a lot of religious baggage, but it is not exclusively tied to religion. Is the fact that we are down to purely semantic arguments mean this is almost over?
It is a group of people that get together and talk about things, and it is not a political party or a business. It is also a secret society meaning that they don't tell outsiders what they talk about. It is the last part that gets some people, as often times people assume if you are being secretive that must mean you are up to no good. It also happens to be a very old group, which just adds fuel to the fire for the imaginative.
So in other words it's like the lodges in the Horus Heresy and you can't say. And we all know how well that worked for the Imperium.
That which thrives in shadow but withers in the light of day, does not belong on the vine.
- A system of Christian or other religious belief; a faith.
- A formal statement of Christian beliefs, esp. the Apostles' Creed or the Nicene Creed.
To be an atheist is by it's very definition to be without creed, so when it's said that "we take men from all creeds", every word spoken is there is honest & true.
Only if you limit yourself to a narrow definition and avoid all others, such as this one from Wikipedia that is more inclusive:
A creed is a statement of belief, in particular a statement of faith that describes the beliefs shared by a religious community. Religious creeds are not intended to be comprehensive, but to be a summary of core beliefs. The term "creed" can also refer to a person's political or social beliefs, or is sometimes used to mean religious affiliation.
Or how about Merriam Webster, take a good long look at number two:
1: a brief authoritative formula of religious belief
2: a set of fundamental beliefs; also : a guiding principle
You'll notice that it doesn't require religious belief.
How about Dictionary.com?
1. any system, doctrine, or formula of religious belief, as of a denomination.
2.any system or codification of belief or of opinion.
It seems number two is once again absent of religious criteria.
The word certainly has a lot of religious baggage, but it is not exclusively tied to religion. Is the fact that we are down to purely semantic arguments mean this is almost over?
Absolutely, I just used the first one I found after a brief search before starting work this this morning. I'd likely avoid going by wikipedia though seems as anyone can write whatever they want. For that reason, I chose to go by the Oxford dictionary, ie, the same one that i used at school. You will notice however that every single entry that you yourself have quoted there states religion as the primary definition, some of which go on to mention it again in the second definition?
I'd say number 2 is anything but absent of religious criteria. "any system or codification of belief or of opinion". It's the word "belief" that disagrees with you there.
And no, I wouldn't say this is almost over just because one or two people have come stuck on one particular point. If you feel that you have reached the end of the debate, then fair enough, though drawing it to a close for anyone else that may have an interest in entering in to the discussion? I don't see why that should be the case.
Themanwiththeplan wrote:.It is a group of people that get together and talk about things, and it is not a political party or a business. It is also a secret society meaning that they don't tell outsiders what they talk about. It is the last part that gets some people, as often times people assume if you are being secretive that must mean you are up to no good. It also happens to be a very old group, which just adds fuel to the fire for the imaginative.
So in other words it's like the lodges in the Horus Heresy and you can't say. And we all know how well that worked for the Imperium.
That which thrives in shadow but withers in the light of day, does not belong on the vine.
Very poetic
I made the same connection before I joined. I'd always steer clear of comparing a real life entity to a fictional creation though!
When you go for a drink with the lads, do you tell your missus everything that you discussed? If your best mate in the whole world asked you to keep a secret, would you do so? Yes? Then why are you not a bad person for doing the same?
The reason for the modern day secrecy is a result of Hitlers actions in WW2, in which he captured and killed hundreds of thousands of Masons. The Masons in the UK as a result went underground, and haven't really "surfaced" again until recently, now that they're trying to bring themselves back in to the light of day, if you like. The challenge here is the misconceptions that people have of us now, as once a person believes that he or she knows something, it's nigh impossible to help them realise the truth without showing them the evidence (or in this case, making them a mason).
In anticipation of the question "well why don't you make everyone a Mason"; it's simple really. There is a HUGE amount of work that goes in to the craft, in the same way that there is with a theater production. It's not a case of "sign here, great you're in. Now here's the proof of what we do as we've been saying all along". I'm sure that any person regardless of their background would politely decline the opportunity to do months worth of practice, purely for someone that would only walk out the door immediately after and never return.
As a comparison, would you give someone a job, train them up, invest SO much time in them, if you knew that they were only going to walk out on you a week later? Of course not, it would be a complete waste of time for everyone involved. For that reason, Masons are selective of who they bring in. I think someone else said in this thread "one rotten apple soon spreads to the rest of the basket", and that's what we try to avoid, we peace and harmony, not strife and argument.
I'd say number 2 is anything but absent of religious criteria. "any system or codification of belief or of opinion". It's the word "belief" that disagrees with you there.
I'd love to hear your opinion on how the word belief can ONLY be used to describe a religious criteria....
Being the fan of one particular sports team can be a creed, as you, along with other fans have the belief that your team is greater than the other teams within that league/sport.
Being a member of a union, say, the Fraternal Order of Policemen carries a certain creed along with it. A set of guidelines and values that each member should try to live up to.
Neither one of those brief examples are ones that involve religion whatsoever.
kitch102 wrote: So what do we know (or think we know) about the masons? Anyone on here a member?
I hear if you need some good stone work done, they're the guys to call. But don't believe the advertising. THEY AREN'T FREE!!! They'll charge you an arm and a leg!
I'd say number 2 is anything but absent of religious criteria. "any system or codification of belief or of opinion". It's the word "belief" that disagrees with you there.
I'd love to hear your opinion on how the word belief can ONLY be used to describe a religious criteria....
Being the fan of one particular sports team can be a creed, as you, along with other fans have the belief that your team is greater than the other teams within that league/sport.
Being a member of a union, say, the Fraternal Order of Policemen carries a certain creed along with it. A set of guidelines and values that each member should try to live up to.
Neither one of those brief examples are ones that involve religion whatsoever.
I guess we can put this down to either wires being crossed between us, or a difference of opinion. The specific wording has always been something along the lines of "do you believe in a god". The term creed isn't typically rolled out as far as I know, in all likelihood as they've had this specific debate before By definition though, the first entry under creed is "religious belief". I've at no point said creed is not used for anything else, though debating the meaning of one single poxy little word is on the whole, a waste of both of our time.
Frazzled wrote:
kitch102 wrote: So what do we know (or think we know) about the masons? Anyone on here a member?
I hear if you need some good stone work done, they're the guys to call. But don't believe the advertising. THEY AREN'T FREE!!! They'll charge you an arm and a leg!
Would it be fair to say that a Mason must be religious, and monotheistic?
From what I've seen in this fascinating thread, it seems that is what the creed debate boils down to- what exactly are the supernatural beliefs necessary for consideration.
As I understand it it's more about believing in something, whatever that something may be. I'll check that with those higher than myself though and feed back later (still learning )
Ok, so I've checked what the line in the sand is. We're not sure if it varies lodge by lodge / country by country though, which could explain the differing comments mentioned in this thread.
A Mason is not expected to believe in a God, they just need to believe in something. When you enter you are asked to swear an oath on someone or something that you believe in, that you truly hold dear to your heart. I don't mean a throw away "ah, well I believe in Matt Ward, he'll do", but a "I'd be lost without... [my mum / the family heirloom / my best that was born on the same day as me OR, God, Allah, Buddah etc]"
It's about answering to a higher power. The wording is not necessarily God - though this may be used figuratively to give a sense of the level of belief that is required of the oath made - it simply boils down to making yourself answerable to a higher power.
As always, I welcome the thoughts of my fellow Masons on this as it would be interesting to get the input of those from other lodges around the habitable globe. My apologies if the above has seemingly taken the carpet out from under you or your previous comments, that is not my intention.
Thanks to everyone for your continued input, I'm enjoying the discussion and debate that has come from this thread.
I can't answer that, only you know what you believe in. It's a personal thing. There are examples in my comment, though it has to be something that YOU believe, I can't tell you what that is, as much as I'd like to be able to help you answer that question.
This sounds Disney as hell, and I'm sorry about that, but look inside yourself and you'll find the answer! (No, not like that )
By all means, please do feel free to tell me through this thread or by PM what you believe, in your heart, and maybe you'll find your answer.
Hmm.. the "what do you believe" question is one I haven't pondered in great detail, since I don't feel a great need to BELIEVE anything and declare it.
I believe that mankind is an evolving creature just any other on this planet.
I believe we have power over our own "destinies," that is to say I don't believe there are supernatural forces of predestination that control us.
I believe that when I die I will cease to be in my entirety - no afterlife - but that while I'm here I have the responsibility to leave a legacy of having taught my children to be better than I was/am, and to have left this life having done more good than bad. Not in the hope of a reward, but as an act of common decency.
I'd have to think a bit more to come up with anything in greater detail, but those are the essentials.
Those are fantastic beliefs to have; caring for others and wanting to make the world a better place for those that follow us are huge Masonic "goals". That's why we're so heavily involved in charity work at the end of the day
Think on it, you might be surprised at what you find yourself thinking. If nothing else it's a cool "journey of self discovery".
I've toured the museum and attended an open day for recruitment I guess, for lack of better term, at the Number 0 lodge. As others have said it mostly seemed to be full of older gentlemen with ties to local business looking for a few kickbacks. As it was the Number 0 lodge, there was particular emphasis on beliefs. It was heavily hinted that if you weren't Protestant then you weren't welcome.
The guys who ran the museum really knew their local history and were a great pleasure to talk to both then, and the few times I've bumped into them whilst out and about.
Zond wrote: The guys who ran the museum really knew their local history and were a great pleasure to talk to both then, and the few times I've bumped into them whilst out and about.
That's what masonry is about.
Zond wrote: I've toured the museum and attended an open day for recruitment I guess, for lack of better term, at the Number 0 lodge. As others have said it mostly seemed to be full of older gentlemen with ties to local business looking for a few kickbacks. As it was the Number 0 lodge, there was particular emphasis on beliefs. It was heavily hinted that if you weren't Protestant then you weren't welcome.
I'm sure some guys do get work as a result of their involvement in Masonry, though it's actively discouraged and pointed out in your interview that if that's what you're really there for, to prepare for disappointment. However if you have a mate that wants a fence putting up, you'd help them out wouldn't you?
I'm contradicting myself in saying that, though we're taught to help others, it's what we want to do, so of course we're going to help those closest to us if they ask. God knows if we had someone on here that sold GW at 50% discount that we'd all buy from them!
Automatically Appended Next Post: A thought's just occurred to me.
A couple of months ago I DJ'd for a friend, he was putting on a fund raiser in his back yard. I didn't charge and absorbed the costs of all fuel (including ferrying gear on about a 50 mile round trip) myself. I did because he is a friend.
He's also a Mason, though the thought of "maybe I can get something out of this" never entered my mind. I just wanted to help him.
That's what these 'back scratches' are, just 2 friends helping each other out. I do understand how it can be interpreted as something else though.
I'm actually a member of one of the other member organizations. Basically, the organization is multiple organization. As a Demolay (A youth equivalent to Masonry), its really about discussing things, planning events and enjoying yourselves with like minded people.
The only other difference Masonry could have with other social clubs is the existence of ritual for opening and closing a meeting, an initiation ritual and some form of moral lessons that is the prime purpose for the organization.
Hell, I could even start on an entire history lesson on Demolay if I wanted to, but it's entire history is as a youth led organization, and we can have people of the opposite gender in a limited capacity as members. We are as a whole, just Boy Scouts without the laundry list of restrictions, with no real requirements for ranks and such and actually led by the Youth. I can say that as both and Eagle Scout and an Active Demolay
Meh, not decrying anyones experience with the Freemasons, just stating what I experienced. I used the term kickbacks deliberately, as it didn't seem like there was much helping out friends with a fence.
The religious aspect put me off, but different strokes and all that.
It boils down to this. From the moment you join right from the get go your doing rituals. The higher you climb, the more rituals you do. At what point do you question the true meaning behind these rituals other than traditition or as a mass bonding experience. At what point do you say to your self - holy gak dude, I joined this thing and I don't even know what it's truly about. Just some vauge promises of being told more and more secrets IF you get to the next degree of masonary. What happens if you want out, or that you tell a non mason one of these secrets (which mostly arn't secret) you get murdered and weighted down at the bottom of the nearest lake or body of water. Or did you think they were kidding when you took that oath?
Themanwiththeplan wrote: It boils down to this. From the moment you join right from the get go your doing rituals. The higher you climb, the more rituals you do. At what point do you question the true meaning behind these rituals other than traditition or as a mass bonding experience. At what point do you say to your self - holy gak dude, I joined this thing and I don't even know what it's truly about. Just some vauge promises of being told more and more secrets IF you get to the next degree of masonary. What happens if you want out, or that you tell a non mason one of these secrets (which mostly arn't secret) you get murdered and weighted down at the bottom of the nearest lake or body of water. Or did you think they were kidding when you took that oath?
I'm pretty sure if you want out, you just stop going to the meetings.
Themanwiththeplan wrote: It boils down to this. From the moment you join right from the get go your doing rituals. The higher you climb, the more rituals you do. At what point do you question the true meaning behind these rituals other than traditition or as a mass bonding experience. At what point do you say to your self - holy gak dude, I joined this thing and I don't even know what it's truly about. Just some vauge promises of being told more and more secrets IF you get to the next degree of masonary. What happens if you want out, or that you tell a non mason one of these secrets (which mostly arn't secret) you get murdered and weighted down at the bottom of the nearest lake or body of water. Or did you think they were kidding when you took that oath?
I'm pretty sure if you want out, you just stop going to the meetings.
Oh, how blissfully innocent! Our masonic lizard mafioso overlords are surely delighted.
Rubiksnoob, genuine question, are you David Icke?!
I know a british ex pat in bulgaria that handed his resignation in. You are considered a Mason for life, though you by no way have to attend every meeting for the rest of your life if it transpires that masonry isn't for you. The oath you take stands to do the day you die though.
It's funny, I was just watching one of your videos today which just so happened to be about a supposed alien invasion of lizard people with adaptive camouflage or something so they could blend in with us and feed off our negative emotions
Themanwiththeplan wrote: Remind me again what happens if you reveil the secrects to anyone not a mason. Let me guess....you get a lolly pop right!
Nah it's an upside down smiley face sticker
In all seriousness though, I couldn't say having never done it or known of anyone that has. I think it depends on the severity of the infringement it could be temporary suspension or a life time global ban.
If you're hinting at being murdered though (?!) Do you really think that anyone on this planet is beyond the reach of the law? I know there are extreme cases like genocidal dictators but seriously?
Many people are beyond the law, it's called coruption. And as you stated earlier, many masons hold high positions.
As for masons never killing anyone who gave up their secrets..your kidding right. There was even a t.v programe about three masons getting caught for murder and fessing up as to why they did it. I'l give you a hint, it wasn't because the man forgot to make them crumpets. More to do with the book he made.
Btw, the French allowed women to join their ranks, and were hence excommunicated into their own sect. For an organization that hails free thinking, natural patterns, and reason; it sometimes seems as though it suffers from pettiness and short shortsightedness like every other organization.
Well, obviously that's OK, because they've been oppressed for so long that we have to "make it up to them" whereas us evil, evil men with our evil wieners can't possibly have anything of our own anymore.
Themanwiththeplan wrote:Many people are beyond the law, it's called coruption. And as you stated earlier, many masons hold high positions.
As for masons never killing anyone who gave up their secrets..your kidding right. There was even a t.v programe about three masons getting caught for murder and fessing up as to why they did it. I'l give you a hint, it wasn't because the man forgot to make them crumpets. More to do with the book he made.
Can you point out where I said that please, as I can't find any quote of myself having said that having filtered all of my comments down, I think you may have confused me for someone else here.
If there's one thing that I've done a lot of since joining Masonry, it's trawl Youtube etc for anything on Masonry - good or bad (it's been like picking at a scab, it pisses me off how much crap they say but I just can't help myself! ) - and I can tell you this, everything you see out there is complete and utter rhubarb. I'm sure there is a video of 3 masons confessing to murder because of xyz. I could make up any old crap right now and broadcast it through whatever means I have available, and you're telling me that you'd believe it, because you someone told you it was true, through a tv screen?!
DemetriDominov wrote:Btw, the French allowed women to join their ranks, and were hence excommunicated into their own sect. For an organization that hails free thinking, natural patterns, and reason; it sometimes seems as though it suffers from pettiness and short shortsightedness like every other organization.
I suppose that's down to how you interpret an unwillingness to break with tradition. Besides, women have Ann Summers parties over here. When I can see what goes on in there, I'll look at letting them see what goes on my lodge (and I guarantee I'll have a LOT more fun )
All secret organizations have meanings for everything in their organization. I'm a member of TKE and we have secrets like most fraternity, but we also have public images that people know and recognize. Everyone recognizes this image:
We all know that's the symbol for the freemasons/freemasonry. And there is most likely a public meaning of the symbols in that image. I am also willing to be that there are meanings to that symbol members like Kitch know and protect.
If they tell you, then that's on that person, but anyone that takes these sort of organizations seriously and takes their oaths and membership seriously wouldn't tell you anything more than you're supposed to know.
kitch102 wrote: The square and compass has one simple meaning, it's freely available and I'm not fobbing anyone off with a public spin when I say this.
The square reminds me to 'always square my actions'.
The compass reminds me to 'tie moral boundaries to my life, and not break past those morals'.
Simples. Possibly a future tattoo too
That is a fine thing to use a tattoo for. I've always felt that memorable oaths should be reinforced with blood, and a lasting reminder of the oath.
I have no idea what you mean by 'square your actions'.
Oh, and another odd question- do you actually learn to work rock and stone, or is it all metaphorical now?
I think your wording was something along the lines of masons gravitate to high paid jobs or the like. It was the part when you were talking about networking.
Dude if you want to take pot shots at me then you've already lost the argument. You asked for any proof to my claims and I gave it. I'm pretty sure it was on channel four or more4, google it. Oh and they didn't murder him for xyz, now that would be stupid wouldn't it. He was done in for releasing masonic secrets in a book.
Themanwiththeplan wrote: Many people are beyond the law, it's called coruption. And as you stated earlier, many masons hold high positions.
As for masons never killing anyone who gave up their secrets..your kidding right. There was even a t.v programe about three masons getting caught for murder and fessing up as to why they did it. I'l give you a hint, it wasn't because the man forgot to make them crumpets. More to do with the book he made.
I've been reading this thread with interest since I have uncles and friends fathers that were in Masons that were proud of the good they did in the community through the organization.
Once i got to the part of this post that begins,"There was even a t.v. program", I immediatly shut the rest out. I would like to know the name of this "program" and exactly how respected the news people on it are, if in fact it was news and not some dramatized movie of the week or tabloid type affair.
Themanwiththeplan wrote: I think your wording was something along the lines of masons gravitate to high paid jobs or the like. It was the part when you were talking about networking.
Dude if you want to take pot shots at me then you've already lost the argument. You asked for any proof to my claims and I gave it. I'm pretty sure it was on channel four or more4, google it. Oh and they didn't murder him for xyz, now that would be stupid wouldn't it. He was done in for releasing masonic secrets in a book.
1) this isn't an argument
2) you need to find a specific quote of my saying anything like that, otherwise you have nothing to back yourself up with and look slightly foolish
3) I'm a 27 year old guy on a relatively low wage in retail, just so you know where I fit in to your demographic
4) addressing your points isn't taking pot shots
5) no proof has been given, you said something vague about some program at some point in the past that no one will ever be able to decide for themselves how credible it is
6) slightly ot but whatever, murders murder, whether you're a Mason or not. Seems as there are no secrets to divulge though, I truly believe you've been caught up and taken in by Hollywood
7) if you need to discuss this further, find your local lodge and ask there. You have to be 21 to enter in to masonry though I have no doubt that they'l find the time to discuss your claims no matter how far off 21 you are
8) enjoy the rest of your day
1) Ok
2) It's somewhere on this thread...somewhere 3) Feth this number listing gak
I'm not trying to put you in a box, people don't like being put in boxes. Especially when it has no air holes.
Saying you saw it one time on 'T.V' so it must be true is.
Dude it was on the box and I can't remember every programe name. It was on in the last year or so. Hows that for vaugness.
If you make it to the top get back to me on the whole 'there are no secrets' thing. And what do you mean films arn't true?! So Harry didn't meet Sally. :O
Nah, I don't want to end up as a sacrific.
And welcome to the world of 27, I'l be joining you in a few days.
Well, I think we've established that your mind is made up. I assure you however that it is false. And no, I haven't said anything about networking or all masons being in powerful positions, but hey, I can't even convince you of that when the evidence is right in this thread
If you don't mind I'd like to move past this bump in the road now, if anyone else has anything they'd like to discuss, please feel free to do so
i know this is the OT / internet and all but maybe more useful discussion and less pot shots and silly nonsense?
I actually just recently reached out to my local masons chapter to look into joining. I'm meeting up with a former officer tomorrow afternoon to talk through things
Well, obviously that's OK, because they've been oppressed for so long that we have to "make it up to them" whereas us evil, evil men with our evil wieners can't possibly have anything of our own anymore.
Now you said you googled and youtubed the masons, right? Then you said you have not heard of this famous murder I told you about, yes? I found this within FIVE minutes of putting into the search engine - who was the freemason murdered for reveiling mason secrets.
Captain William Morgan, abducted and murdered by his fellow masons in 1826 for trying to disclose their secrets in a book.
www.padfield.com/1993/morgan.html
It was not the only site telling the tale. And yes this is the story that was dramatized for t.v.
I have genuinely never heard of that instance or man. As I said though, to save us going round in circles, I'd appreciate being able to move on past your, with respect, conspiracy theories.
D-usa has it right lol
Ironic, I hope it goes well for you! Be yourself and enjoy meeting the people there
There is a very large lodge literally two blocks down from my place.
To be honest, it's super creepy. It's got a big faded mural on the side, and a bunch of stained glass windows everywhere. The door is ALWAYS shut, and there is an intercom out front. Anytime I see anyone entering or leaving, they invariably look furtive. Sometimes there are very big, very rude guards with earpieces posted up out front, presumably when there is an event going on inside. The parking lot has several large and unfriendly signs instructing non-members to not even enter it to make U-turns.
There are no signs out front. The only way I know it's a masonic lodge is the mural on the side, which is so faded that it's actually hard to see.
It hasn't happened recently, but a few years ago on a number of occasions I saw literal busloads of *very* scantily clad, very young girls (think late teens, early twenties) going in there. It looked like a busload of prostitutes, frankly. At the time, my wife and I were convinced that's what it was. I saw that two or three times, but, again, haven't seen it in years.
I'm sure there is nothing seriously nefarious going on inside, but, the overall unfriendliness / creepiness of the place is disturbing enough that I don't even like walking by it.
Can any masons here maybe shed some light on what I'm seeing or help with my general uneasiness about the place?
feth knows, could you give me the address and I'll find out first hand?!?!
Genuinely no idea. Women aren't allowed inside of the "temple" unless it's just for a tour.
Lodges are used for other purposes though. It could be that a lodge didn't have enough members to justify the use of what sounds like a big expensive building, and moved elsewhere. Meanwhile the building is handed over to another party for their own use. Either way, that doesn't sound masonic.
Could you take a picture of the building and post it up here? Sounds interesting.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I know the noose is true, it represents an umbilical cord, which in turn represents rebirth.
kitch102 wrote: feth knows, could you give me the address and I'll find out first hand?!?!
Genuinely no idea. Women aren't allowed inside of the "temple" unless it's just for a tour.
Lodges are used for other purposes though. It could be that a lodge didn't have enough members to justify the use of what sounds like a big expensive building, and moved elsewhere. Meanwhile the building is handed over to another party for their own use. Either way, that doesn't sound masonic.
Could you take a picture of the building and post it up here? Sounds interesting.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I know the noose is true, it represents an umbilical cord, which in turn represents rebirth.
As for the rest of it, I couldn't say pal :-/
You've got to be right. They must rent the place out for events to outside organizations or something. I can't imagine partying with a busload of prostitutes adheres to the Freemason code of conduct. But, then again, I saw a bunch of distinguished looking older gentlemen escorting these young ladies inside... it was a freaky scene, man, I am telling you.
Or perhaps it's some strange offshoot of freemasonry? The mural definitely has the ruler and compass design on it. I'll try to get a pic of the place next time I walk past, and I will post it here. Although, to be honest, I am more than a little concerned that I may get confronted by some goon for taking pictures of the place. Yes, the vibe around there is like that.
Wow, murder is now a conspiracy theory. And I'm using that example to point you in the direction of what I mentioned earlier in thead to break down you denile on all masons are good and they speak truth all day every day.
Look, you have made your choice, and I'm not trying to change it. But it's a foolish man who closes his mind or belittles the other side of the coin. You were born with free will, and it's up to you to use it. If you choose to follow group thought, that's your business. I'm only bringing a horse to water.
Themanwiththeplan wrote: Wow, murder is now a conspiracy theory. And I'm using that example to point you in the direction of what I mentioned earlier in thead to break down you denile on all masons are good and they speak truth all day every day.
Look, you have made your choice, and I'm not trying to change it. But it's a foolish man who closes his mind or belittles the other side of the coin. You were born with free will, and it's up to you to use it. If you choose to follow group thought, that's your business. I'm only bringing a horse to water.
your not taking a horse anywhere...the horse is dead...stop beating it. Muslims are peace loving good people but this one time a group of them flew some planes into some buildings and killed a bunch of people....does that mean all Muslims are evil?
Do you have any personal experience with the masons that makes your opinion of them so strong?
Seriously, this whole "200 years ago some Freemasons killed some guy, possibly because he was going to write a book about them. Therefore Freemasons in 2013 are going to kill anybody who spills their secrets. Wake up Sheeple!" thing is just making you look pretty silly.
Keep on rocking the tinfoil, meanwhile this thread is on target to get locked.
(Probably by the Masons. Lego's are square, and are used to build things. They are almost like cornerstones. And one of the admins is Legoburner. Which fits in with the stone cutting symbolism of the legos and the burning is from the holy fire of the sun. This goes deep guys, very deep.)
Themanwiththeplan wrote: Are you now trying to make me out to be a racist? Your bait is obvious. Be careful what you fish for, for sometimes the hunter becomes the prey.
No he's not trying to make you out to be a racist, Masons aren't a race, they're an organization. He was giving you something equally as ludicrous as your statement.
Him: A small number of Muslims killed people in a plane attack, therefore all Muslims are bad (false)
You: A small number of Freemasons killed a guy in a violent attack, therefore all Freemasons are bad (false).
Me: I'm a member of Tau Kappa Epsilon, they've had members kill kids with alcohol poisoning, therefore all Tekes are bad. (false, we're fething awesome )
Can we ignore the troll and focus on what's really important? The older men partying with very young prostitutes at my local Masonic Lodge is a pressing and important issue!
Xenocidal Maniac wrote: Can we ignore the troll and focus on what's really important? The older men partying with very young prostitutes at my local Masonic Lodge is a pressing and important issue!
pretty sure that should be on the recruitment poster cause thats a party I want to join
Xenocidal Maniac wrote: Can we ignore the troll and focus on what's really important? The older men partying with very young prostitutes at my local Masonic Lodge is a pressing and important issue!
pretty sure that should be on the recruitment poster cause thats a party I want to join
I don't think I'd feel comfortable with that until the phrase "very young" is defined.
Yes you are all bad people because a few of you murdered a guy 200 years ago. So....masons have done nothing bad since then. Yes believe you! believe you! I could point them out but you will just call them conspiracies like you did with that murder until I gave you proof. Enjoy your satanic cult guys, I'm sure your 'priest's' find there's nothing wrong with dressing up like the Ku Klux Klan.
Themanwiththeplan wrote: Yes you are all bad people because a few of you murdered a guy 200 years ago. So....masons have done nothing bad since then. Yes believe you! believe you! I could point them out but you will just call them conspiracies like you did with that murder until I gave you proof. Enjoy your satanic cult guys, I'm sure your 'priest's' find there's nothing wrong with dressing up like the Ku Klux Klan.
Themanwiththeplan wrote: Yes you are all bad people because a few of you murdered a guy 200 years ago. So....masons have done nothing bad since then. Yes believe you! believe you! I could point them out but you will just call them conspiracies like you did with that murder until I gave you proof. Enjoy your satanic cult guys, I'm sure your 'priest's' find there's nothing wrong with dressing up like the Ku Klux Klan.
Themanwiththeplan wrote: Yes you are all bad people because a few of you murdered a guy 200 years ago. So....masons have done nothing bad since then. Yes believe you! believe you! I could point them out but you will just call them conspiracies like you did with that murder until I gave you proof. Enjoy your satanic cult guys, I'm sure your 'priest's' find there's nothing wrong with dressing up like the Ku Klux Klan.
Apply directly to the forehead!
Will do And thanks, I was aiming to go off the deep end with the most insane conspiracies I could think of, though I probably missed some. You guys are too easy, laugh more instead of taking gak serious. I've had fun laughing at you and the same with you at me. It'ts been fun but I'm bored with this thread now. I'm off to crawl into my bunker and eat jarred food while I read Alex Jones as I watch my cameras. Come and get me lizards! Your ray guns from your UFO's can't get me!
Oh we would have laughed at what you said instead of just at you, if there had been anything funny to your posts, instead they were just sad, sad and insane...
Will do And thanks, I was aiming to go off the deep end with the most insane conspiracies I could think of, though I probably missed some. You guys are too easy, laugh more instead of taking gak serious. I've had fun laughing at you and the same with you at me. It'ts been fun but I'm bored with this thread now. I'm off to crawl into my bunker and eat jarred food while I read Alex Jones as I watch my cameras. Come and get me lizards! Your ray guns from your UFO's can't get me!
Ah, congrats. Last minute direction change to swap your poorly articulated arguments for a 'no skin off my nose' trolling attitude.
I wish I could even say it was well done, but instead you've just derailed a thread aimlessly. You're the first person who almost made it on to my ban list. Congrats again.
Sorry to disappoint. And your right there, no skin off my nose, just a lark to point out that not all masons are saints like you have all tried to portray. How ease it is to pull the strings of puppet's. Dance my puppets! Dance!
Themanwiththeplan wrote: Sorry to disappoint. And your right there, no skin off my nose, just a lark to point out that not all masons are saints like you have all tried to portray. How ease it is to pull the strings of puppet's. Dance my puppets! Dance!
No one said all masons are saints, but you cherry picked an example older than people's grandparents...
Themanwiththeplan wrote: Sorry to disappoint. And your right there, no skin off my nose, just a lark to point out that not all masons are saints like you have all tried to portray. How ease it is to pull the strings of puppet's. Dance my puppets! Dance!
the french judge gives your trolling attempt a 3, better luck next time, or maybe dont be TFG and try to derail people's conversations
Hey, seriously? You guys are getting led around by the nose by a semi-literate troll? Come on! Hit that ignore button and let's get back to what's important! Which is exposing the Freemason - Illuminati murder cult plot to rule the world and how they were behind 9/11!!
I had a great chat with an officer from my local lodge tonight, was great to sit down with someone and just throw question and get a feel for the type of work the masons do. I'm basically at a point in my life where im making a really solid living for my wife and I and I want to start bettering the world around me and from what I've been told the masons are just a bunch of guys that are of a similar mind. 100% going to move forward with joining
I'm thinking freemason prostitutes would have great symmetry in their bodies. Lets hear it for the freemason end of the world where every mason shall be given a freemason prostitute with maths related measurements. ALL HAIL THE GREAT ARCHITECT!
Sticks and stones, may try to break my bones, but masons will never suceed to hurt me.
They cheat and and lie, to stay so high, and pay for the under thirty.
A satanic lodge, oh what a codge, it made me cry oh lord have mercy.
Your famous eye, failed to spy, I keyed your car on thursday.
Don't fool yourself into thinking you know what's going on in this world. The first duty of power is to perpetuate itself, and we don't even know who the actual powerful people are. Truman started the whole American tradition of secrecy after WWII, with Project Paperclip, in which the CIA put captured Nazi scientists to work on America's nuclear arsenal, the space program, and all this "otherworldly" technology they'd come across. (And you know what I mean.) Then they got Truman to create the super-secret Majestic 12 committee to oversee Project Paperclip, not to mention other weird stuff the government wanted hidden. They ran the whole thing, and they've been running it for years, but nobody knows who "they" are. But I'm pretty sure they're all Freemasons.
The whole Kennedy thing is so huge because it's at the center of so many other covert shadow-government operations. Kennedy himself was the smallest part of it, because it was actually a power play between Dulles' CIA, the anti-Castro military, LBJ, the Giancana Mafia, and a bunch of other dirty players. Oswald was a patsy, sure, but he put a gun on Jack. Of course, so did other test-mules from Dulles' MK-Ultra LSD-mind-control experiments. Zapruder was in on it, too: He was a KGB mole from way back. And the whole thing had ripple effects, like Jonestown, which was an assassin training camp that got found out. As for the Warren Commission, that thing was a joke—Dulles himself was on it, and there was only one person on the whole commission who wasn't on the CIA payroll and suspected Oswald didn't act alone. He died in a plane crash, after a young congressional aide named Bill Clinton drove him to the airport. It's all true, but nobody wants to admit it. Nobody.
Now, Roswell, that's a bunch of crap. The Air Force was in possession of captured alien technology years before that. In '43, they started reverse-engineering a torus-shaped craft that came down in Arizona, and the next thing you know, America has The Bomb, supersonic aircraft, and a space program. Glenn saw stuff up there, flying lights. You can look it up. You know what I think? I think that skirt-chaser Kennedy wanted to spill the beans about our alien friends, so they killed him. He told his girlfriend Marilyn Monroe, and they killed her, too. No doubt, you're wondering, "Who are 'they'?" Well, I think the numbers speak for themselves: The Trinity site, where the first A-bomb was detonated; Dealey Plaza, where Kennedy bought the farm; and Area 51 are all on the 33rd parallel. And what other significance does the number 33 happen to have? It's the highest rank of the Masonic order. Wheels within wheels, my friend. Wheels within wheels.
Seaward wrote: Don't fool yourself into thinking you know what's going on in this world. The first duty of power is to perpetuate itself, and we don't even know who the actual powerful people are. Truman started the whole American tradition of secrecy after WWII, with Project Paperclip, in which the CIA put captured Nazi scientists to work on America's nuclear arsenal, the space program, and all this "otherworldly" technology they'd come across. (And you know what I mean.) Then they got Truman to create the super-secret Majestic 12 committee to oversee Project Paperclip, not to mention other weird stuff the government wanted hidden. They ran the whole thing, and they've been running it for years, but nobody knows who "they" are. But I'm pretty sure they're all Freemasons.
The whole Kennedy thing is so huge because it's at the center of so many other covert shadow-government operations. Kennedy himself was the smallest part of it, because it was actually a power play between Dulles' CIA, the anti-Castro military, LBJ, the Giancana Mafia, and a bunch of other dirty players. Oswald was a patsy, sure, but he put a gun on Jack. Of course, so did other test-mules from Dulles' MK-Ultra LSD-mind-control experiments. Zapruder was in on it, too: He was a KGB mole from way back. And the whole thing had ripple effects, like Jonestown, which was an assassin training camp that got found out. As for the Warren Commission, that thing was a joke—Dulles himself was on it, and there was only one person on the whole commission who wasn't on the CIA payroll and suspected Oswald didn't act alone. He died in a plane crash, after a young congressional aide named Bill Clinton drove him to the airport. It's all true, but nobody wants to admit it. Nobody.
Now, Roswell, that's a bunch of crap. The Air Force was in possession of captured alien technology years before that. In '43, they started reverse-engineering a torus-shaped craft that came down in Arizona, and the next thing you know, America has The Bomb, supersonic aircraft, and a space program. Glenn saw stuff up there, flying lights. You can look it up. You know what I think? I think that skirt-chaser Kennedy wanted to spill the beans about our alien friends, so they killed him. He told his girlfriend Marilyn Monroe, and they killed her, too. No doubt, you're wondering, "Who are 'they'?" Well, I think the numbers speak for themselves: The Trinity site, where the first A-bomb was detonated; Dealey Plaza, where Kennedy bought the farm; and Area 51 are all on the 33rd parallel. And what other significance does the number 33 happen to have? It's the highest rank of the Masonic order. Wheels within wheels, my friend. Wheels within wheels.
What exactly is the 33rd parallel? I keep hearing it in these theories though have no idea what it is.
As for the stories themselves, I strongly believe that's all they are; stories. I don't profess to know everything, though as masons don't have any deep evil secrets to keep, there'd be no reason for us to act as suggested in these stories.
ironicsilence wrote: Its neat when Alp tells one guy to stop spamming, then the next 2 posts are spam
Especially when Seaward's post is the exact same post that he made in a previous thread, about conspiracy theories.
On topic, I'm not at all knowledgeable about the Freemasons, but they seem like a nice enough bunch.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
kitch102 wrote: What exactly is the 33rd parallel? I keep hearing it in these theories though have no idea what it is.
As for the stories themselves, I strongly believe that's all they are; stories. I don't profess to know everything, though as masons don't have any deep evil secrets to keep, there'd be no reason for us to act as suggested in these stories.
I don't think it's actually a thing. It seems like something someone thought would sound conspiratorial and convincing, then got used over and over again.
For the record, that massive post is a direct copy from the onion
Well, since this thread has probably run it's usefulness, I'd just like to say thanks to the people in first few pages, I actually learned a bit about Freemasons. I'd always been sort of curious what that was all about.
Wow. Does anyone notice that this so-called "33rd Parallel" passes through every single continent except Australia, Europe, and South America?
Coincidence? I think not
I completely agree. It passes through america where owning various fire arms is legal, irag and libya where wars aren't exactly uncommon, and I think I read palestine too? Plus god knows how many others.
You have to remember as well that whilst the 33rd degree is the highest rank a mason can attain, there are 32 other degrees too. Folk don't look at what happens on these parallels though, I guess it's not as a bigger deal for the conspiracy theorists out there
Ouze wrote:Well, since this thread has probably run it's usefulness, I'd just like to say thanks to the people in first few pages, I actually learned a bit about Freemasons. I'd always been sort of curious what that was all about.
Not sure why people keep saying that the thread has run its usefulness. If anything just think of it as a personal indulgence for yours truly, I have 2nd degree coming up in September and enjoy everything that comes from these discussions. Not so bothered for the focus on prostitution, but the rest of it's sound
My granddad was actually a 31st degree freemason, and he bought me my first miniatures with the money he made from "secret society stuff". So basically without the freemasons I wouldn't have been introduced to any aspect of Warhammer, and would be living in the illusion that warhammer is just for nerds who haven't seen daylight for over 20 years.
kitch102 wrote: That's cool, though Freemasonry is a charitable cause, and is not for profit as other charities. I don't see how he'd have got money from it
Now if you tell me that you bought Dark Angels with the money...! The thick plottens!
freemason poker night is a great way to make a few extra bucks
kitch102 wrote: That's cool, though Freemasonry is a charitable cause, and is not for profit as other charities. I don't see how he'd have got money from it
Now if you tell me that you bought Dark Angels with the money...! The thick plottens!
Actually it was the Battle of Macragge box, but I wanted chaos marines so I painted them with Alpha Legion colours...
kitch102 wrote: That's cool, though Freemasonry is a charitable cause, and is not for profit as other charities. I don't see how he'd have got money from it
Now if you tell me that you bought Dark Angels with the money...! The thick plottens!
Actually it was the Battle of Macragge box, but I wanted chaos marines so I painted them with Alpha Legion colours...
The plot just thickened so much the plot is now a solid...
I name this new element, Plotanium.
So I wouldn't normally go in for thread necromancy, though personal pride (and lots... LOTS... of red wine) has taken over...
I now greet you all as a Master Mason! Don't believe what youtube tells you folks, we're wonderful people out to better ourselves and to do good work in out communities, I wouldn't be this hapoy if the opposite were true.
Now back to talking about men in aprons and how they managed to get their iconography on US money, and how the great architect is satan, and about how they cast spells, and about how they rule the world, and ....probably something about jews as well.
Right now I'm reading a book about Franco's justifications for starting the Spanish Civil War hence the connection.
)
