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 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
It boils down to this. From the moment you join right from the get go your doing rituals. The higher you climb, the more rituals you do. At what point do you question the true meaning behind these rituals other than traditition or as a mass bonding experience. At what point do you say to your self - holy gak dude, I joined this thing and I don't even know what it's truly about. Just some vauge promises of being told more and more secrets IF you get to the next degree of masonary. What happens if you want out, or that you tell a non mason one of these secrets (which mostly arn't secret) you get murdered and weighted down at the bottom of the nearest lake or body of water. Or did you think they were kidding when you took that oath?

I'm pretty sure if you want out, you just stop going to the meetings.

 Hordini wrote:

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
It boils down to this. From the moment you join right from the get go your doing rituals. The higher you climb, the more rituals you do. At what point do you question the true meaning behind these rituals other than traditition or as a mass bonding experience. At what point do you say to your self - holy gak dude, I joined this thing and I don't even know what it's truly about. Just some vauge promises of being told more and more secrets IF you get to the next degree of masonary. What happens if you want out, or that you tell a non mason one of these secrets (which mostly arn't secret) you get murdered and weighted down at the bottom of the nearest lake or body of water. Or did you think they were kidding when you took that oath?

I'm pretty sure if you want out, you just stop going to the meetings.

Oh, how blissfully innocent! Our masonic lizard mafioso overlords are surely delighted.

Rubiksnoob, genuine question, are you David Icke?!

I know a british ex pat in bulgaria that handed his resignation in. You are considered a Mason for life, though you by no way have to attend every meeting for the rest of your life if it transpires that masonry isn't for you. The oath you take stands to do the day you die though.

 kitch102 wrote:
Rubiksnoob, genuine question, are you David Icke?!

Blast, my cover is blown! You win this time, Doc Connors and Friends, but I'll be back!

It's funny, I was just watching one of your videos today which just so happened to be about a supposed alien invasion of lizard people with adaptive camouflage or something so they could blend in with us and feed off our negative emotions

An honour to meet you sir

Remind me again what happens if you reveil the secrects to anyone not a mason. Let me guess....you get a lolly pop right!

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
Remind me again what happens if you reveil the secrects to anyone not a mason. Let me guess....you get a lolly pop right!

Nah it's an upside down smiley face sticker

In all seriousness though, I couldn't say having never done it or known of anyone that has. I think it depends on the severity of the infringement it could be temporary suspension or a life time global ban.

If you're hinting at being murdered though (?!) Do you really think that anyone on this planet is beyond the reach of the law? I know there are extreme cases like genocidal dictators but seriously?

Many people are beyond the law, it's called coruption. And as you stated earlier, many masons hold high positions.
As for masons never killing anyone who gave up their secrets..your kidding right. There was even a t.v programe about three masons getting caught for murder and fessing up as to why they did it. I'l give you a hint, it wasn't because the man forgot to make them crumpets. More to do with the book he made.

Btw, the French allowed women to join their ranks, and were hence excommunicated into their own sect. For an organization that hails free thinking, natural patterns, and reason; it sometimes seems as though it suffers from pettiness and short shortsightedness like every other organization.

Is there something inherently wrong with a club that only allows men to join?

What about a club that only allows women?

 Hordini wrote:

What about a club that only allows women?

Well, obviously that's OK, because they've been oppressed for so long that we have to "make it up to them" whereas us evil, evil men with our evil wieners can't possibly have anything of our own anymore.

That's not true.

Men always get to keep half their stuff.

Themanwiththeplan wrote:Many people are beyond the law, it's called coruption. And as you stated earlier, many masons hold high positions.
As for masons never killing anyone who gave up their secrets..your kidding right. There was even a t.v programe about three masons getting caught for murder and fessing up as to why they did it. I'l give you a hint, it wasn't because the man forgot to make them crumpets. More to do with the book he made.

Can you point out where I said that please, as I can't find any quote of myself having said that having filtered all of my comments down, I think you may have confused me for someone else here.

If there's one thing that I've done a lot of since joining Masonry, it's trawl Youtube etc for anything on Masonry - good or bad (it's been like picking at a scab, it pisses me off how much crap they say but I just can't help myself! ) - and I can tell you this, everything you see out there is complete and utter rhubarb. I'm sure there is a video of 3 masons confessing to murder because of xyz. I could make up any old crap right now and broadcast it through whatever means I have available, and you're telling me that you'd believe it, because you someone told you it was true, through a tv screen?!

DemetriDominov wrote:Btw, the French allowed women to join their ranks, and were hence excommunicated into their own sect. For an organization that hails free thinking, natural patterns, and reason; it sometimes seems as though it suffers from pettiness and short shortsightedness like every other organization.

I suppose that's down to how you interpret an unwillingness to break with tradition. Besides, women have Ann Summers parties over here. When I can see what goes on in there, I'll look at letting them see what goes on my lodge (and I guarantee I'll have a LOT more fun )

All secret organizations have meanings for everything in their organization. I'm a member of TKE and we have secrets like most fraternity, but we also have public images that people know and recognize. Everyone recognizes this image:


We all know that's the symbol for the freemasons/freemasonry. And there is most likely a public meaning of the symbols in that image. I am also willing to be that there are meanings to that symbol members like Kitch know and protect.

If they tell you, then that's on that person, but anyone that takes these sort of organizations seriously and takes their oaths and membership seriously wouldn't tell you anything more than you're supposed to know.

The square and compass has one simple meaning, it's freely available and I'm not fobbing anyone off with a public spin when I say this.

The square reminds me to 'always square my actions'.
The compass reminds me to 'tie moral boundaries to my life, and not break past those morals'.

Simples. Possibly a future tattoo too

 d-usa wrote:
That's not true.

Men always get to keep half their stuff.

Silly man... that's what you think would happen.

 kitch102 wrote:
The square and compass has one simple meaning, it's freely available and I'm not fobbing anyone off with a public spin when I say this.

The square reminds me to 'always square my actions'.
The compass reminds me to 'tie moral boundaries to my life, and not break past those morals'.

Simples. Possibly a future tattoo too

That is a fine thing to use a tattoo for. I've always felt that memorable oaths should be reinforced with blood, and a lasting reminder of the oath.

I have no idea what you mean by 'square your actions'.

Oh, and another odd question- do you actually learn to work rock and stone, or is it all metaphorical now?

Square your actions means to always be accountable for what you do. At least that's my understanding, I'm still new here lol.

And sadly no you don't learn to work stone. Oddly though I did stonemasonry as my school work experience. The fates work in mysterious ways lol

I think your wording was something along the lines of masons gravitate to high paid jobs or the like. It was the part when you were talking about networking.

Dude if you want to take pot shots at me then you've already lost the argument. You asked for any proof to my claims and I gave it. I'm pretty sure it was on channel four or more4, google it. Oh and they didn't murder him for xyz, now that would be stupid wouldn't it. He was done in for releasing masonic secrets in a book.

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
Many people are beyond the law, it's called coruption. And as you stated earlier, many masons hold high positions.
As for masons never killing anyone who gave up their secrets..your kidding right. There was even a t.v programe about three masons getting caught for murder and fessing up as to why they did it. I'l give you a hint, it wasn't because the man forgot to make them crumpets. More to do with the book he made.

I've been reading this thread with interest since I have uncles and friends fathers that were in Masons that were proud of the good they did in the community through the organization.
Once i got to the part of this post that begins,"There was even a t.v. program", I immediatly shut the rest out. I would like to know the name of this "program" and exactly how respected the news people on it are, if in fact it was news and not some dramatized movie of the week or tabloid type affair.

Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?

 cincydooley wrote:
Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?

Who gives athieists a frown?
and controls the big jobs in town?

The Free- masons, The free-masons

..aren't we making up funny songs about free masons?

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
I think your wording was something along the lines of masons gravitate to high paid jobs or the like. It was the part when you were talking about networking.

Dude if you want to take pot shots at me then you've already lost the argument. You asked for any proof to my claims and I gave it. I'm pretty sure it was on channel four or more4, google it. Oh and they didn't murder him for xyz, now that would be stupid wouldn't it. He was done in for releasing masonic secrets in a book.

1) this isn't an argument
2) you need to find a specific quote of my saying anything like that, otherwise you have nothing to back yourself up with and look slightly foolish
3) I'm a 27 year old guy on a relatively low wage in retail, just so you know where I fit in to your demographic
4) addressing your points isn't taking pot shots
5) no proof has been given, you said something vague about some program at some point in the past that no one will ever be able to decide for themselves how credible it is
6) slightly ot but whatever, murders murder, whether you're a Mason or not. Seems as there are no secrets to divulge though, I truly believe you've been caught up and taken in by Hollywood
7) if you need to discuss this further, find your local lodge and ask there. You have to be 21 to enter in to masonry though I have no doubt that they'l find the time to discuss your claims no matter how far off 21 you are
8) enjoy the rest of your day

1) Ok
2) It's somewhere on this thread...somewhere
3) Feth this number listing gak
I'm not trying to put you in a box, people don't like being put in boxes. Especially when it has no air holes.

Saying you saw it one time on 'T.V' so it must be true is.

Dude it was on the box and I can't remember every programe name. It was on in the last year or so. Hows that for vaugness.

If you make it to the top get back to me on the whole 'there are no secrets' thing. And what do you mean films arn't true?! So Harry didn't meet Sally. :O

Nah, I don't want to end up as a sacrific.

And welcome to the world of 27, I'l be joining you in a few days.

Well, I think we've established that your mind is made up. I assure you however that it is false. And no, I haven't said anything about networking or all masons being in powerful positions, but hey, I can't even convince you of that when the evidence is right in this thread

If you don't mind I'd like to move past this bump in the road now, if anyone else has anything they'd like to discuss, please feel free to do so

i know this is the OT / internet and all but maybe more useful discussion and less pot shots and silly nonsense?

I actually just recently reached out to my local masons chapter to look into joining. I'm meeting up with a former officer tomorrow afternoon to talk through things

Yeah sure, good luck with your PR. Just don't knock or leave symbols on my door or I'l release the war hound, and then my dog.

Sounds good! Which lodge are talking with?

Hope it goes well for you

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Hordini wrote:

What about a club that only allows women?

Well, obviously that's OK, because they've been oppressed for so long that we have to "make it up to them" whereas us evil, evil men with our evil wieners can't possibly have anything of our own anymore.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

Special Pleading for the win!

Now you said you googled and youtubed the masons, right? Then you said you have not heard of this famous murder I told you about, yes? I found this within FIVE minutes of putting into the search engine - who was the freemason murdered for reveiling mason secrets.

Captain William Morgan, abducted and murdered by his fellow masons in 1826 for trying to disclose their secrets in a book.

www.padfield.com/1993/morgan.html

It was not the only site telling the tale. And yes this is the story that was dramatized for t.v.