What is the most powerful single being in the entire 40k series?

In my opinion its Khorne, what do you guys think?

Marbo.

falling that, Hive mind

The Imperial Guardsman

/ Obligatory Mat Ward's pen joke

Are we talking physical strength, psychic power, or the power they command?

Does the Hive Mind count as a single entity, as all Tyranids are just parts of its whole. Oooooh edgy!

Obliviously the Emperor in his hayday for physical power. Even now for psychic power, and in a way he still controls the Imperium, but only kind of.

Very difficult question to answer. also quite general. My question is what herbaciousT said^^

 HerbaciousT wrote:
Obliviously the Emperor in his hayday for physical power. Even now for psychic power, and in a way he still controls the Imperium, but only kind of.

The C'tan were physically more powerful than the Emperor in their heyday.

Isn't the answer to all these questions always Leman Russ?

Can't be any of the Chaos Gods, because Gork and Mork are more powerful than that. Perhaps Gork+Mork (they seem to be two faces of the same deity anyway), the Emperor, or the Tyranid Hive Mind?

 Melissia wrote:
Can't be any of the Chaos Gods, because Gork and Mork are more powerful than that. Perhaps Gork+Mork (they seem to be two faces of the same deity anyway), the Emperor, or the Tyranid Hive Mind?

What makes you believe that Gork and Mork are more powerful than that?

Mork without Gork


Automatically Appended Next Post:

VampireDeLaVega wrote:
What is the most powerful single being in the entire 40k series?

In my opinion its Khorne, what do you guys think?

Why Khorne ? Why not Nurgle or Slaanesh ?

Chaos Gods don't count. They can't enter the mortal realm, and are in fact an aggregate entity.

The Emperor doesn't count either. He sits on his golden toilet and does nothing.

My money goes on Fateweaver.

My money is on Cegorarch. Hear me out though, Cegorarch has direct access to the black library, giving him all but complete knowledge of the chaos gods and how to beat them. He knows all there daemons and all there traps while he has the most powerful relics known to the eldar to of ever existed. Being Lord of the Webway he can open tunnels practically anywhere in the entire universe, and we could assume he could even breach Terra, that would give the emperor a hard time when his corpse is turned to soup by a harlequin kiss. Unlike the Chaos gods, he is not stuck in there perpetual struggle against each other, meaning he would have time to work. Knowlige is power, sure Tzeentch has him out done even with the Black Library, but the ambition to use it is more important.

DarthMarko wrote:Mork without Gork


Automatically Appended Next Post:

VampireDeLaVega wrote:
What is the most powerful single being in the entire 40k series?

In my opinion its Khorne, what do you guys think?

Why Khorne ? Why not Nurgle or Slaanesh ?

Khorne is the modt powerful Chaos God.

Void__Dragon wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Can't be any of the Chaos Gods, because Gork and Mork are more powerful than that. Perhaps Gork+Mork (they seem to be two faces of the same deity anyway), the Emperor, or the Tyranid Hive Mind?

What makes you believe that Gork and Mork are more powerful than that?

The Ork.codex says something along the lines of Gork/Mork being so powerful they can basically rolfstomp any other warp entity. Will try to find a quote soon.

VampireDeLaVega wrote:
What is the most powerful single being in the entire 40k series?

In my opinion its Khorne, what do you guys think?

I dont think a chaos god is that much stronger than the other... i believe they are in a vicious cycle of balance? Where one gains terretory the other loses it.. if a chaos god becomes stronger than the other the balance would be disturbed and balance would be restored automaticly? I believe i read this somewhere.... dont know where.. Khorne might be stronger but Nurgle will never fall against him.. he just keeps on taking those hits

Any gods aside though.... Swarm Lord/Ezekyle Abbadon/Marneus Calgar/Eldrad Ulthwe/ Imotekh the Stormlord/ Ghazkull?... Hell any superboss from a codex is a match for another... Their specialties just lay somewhere else..

If Shadowsun doesnt kill Ghazkull on range and allows him to get up close she is a goner... Couple of good hits and ghazkull is... I dont think we can point at a model and say,... yuuuup hes the strongest...

Gork ....... or mork.

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:

VampireDeLaVega wrote:
What is the most powerful single being in the entire 40k series?

In my opinion its Khorne, what do you guys think?

I dont think a chaos god is that much stronger than the other... i believe they are in a vicious cycle of balance? Where one gains terretory the other loses it.. if a chaos god becomes stronger than the other the balance would be disturbed and balance would be restored automaticly? I believe i read this somewhere.... dont know where.. Khorne might be stronger but Nurgle will never fall against him.. he just keeps on taking those hits

Any gods aside though.... Swarm Lord/Ezekyle Abbadon/Marneus Calgar/Eldrad Ulthwe/ Imotekh the Stormlord/ Ghazkull?... Hell any superboss from a codex is a match for another... Their specialties just lay somewhere else..

If Shadowsun doesnt kill Ghazkull on range and allows him to get up close she is a goner... Couple of good hits and ghazkull is... I dont think we can point at a model and say,... yuuuup hes the strongest...

I don't know where you got that idea from, but the way I know it is Khorne has been the strongest since the beginning of the game. Although Nurgle is older, as his aspects have existed longer, Khorne has become more powerful than anyone else simply on the amount of hating and war going on. The way I've known it, the pecking order is Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch, who alternate at points in time for 2nd, then Slaanesh, who is the weakest but still beats Khaine.

And no, Swarmlord wins out of all of those. He just respawns.

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
I dont think a chaos god is that much stronger than the other... i believe they are in a vicious cycle of balance? Where one gains terretory the other loses it.. if a chaos god becomes stronger than the other the balance would be disturbed and balance would be restored automaticly? I believe i read this somewhere.... dont know where.. Khorne might be stronger but Nurgle will never fall against him.. he just keeps on taking those hits

This is correct... well, nearly. It's in the Daemons Codex. Basically, when one Chaos god gains a significant advantage over the others, they will put aside their differences just long enough to bring them down a peg, then squabble over the spoils. One god may flux over the others but it's never for long.

I believe Khorne is noted as *physically* the most powerful, in other words he's the strongest and most skilled should it come to a one-on-one fight, but in the realm of the Chaos gods this is rarely the case. Also remember that part of their power is expended in creating Daemons and in getting them to the material universe, and they rely on these Daemons spreading Chaos in their name to return a profit on that investment.

Regardless - it's not any of the Chaos gods. As was already mentioned, the Ork Codex states that both Gork and Mork are much more powerful than the Chaos gods, simply through the sheer number of Orks that exist. It's arguable that the Emperor could have been more capable than the Chaos gods too whilst active if he was able to keep the Astronomican going *and* take part in his own massive crusade, but now? No chance.

Cegorach (not sure on spelling?) certainly isn't the most powerful, he's mentioned as avoiding direct confrontation with Slaanesh (and I believe Khaine too, in the past) because he couldn't win such a fight. Instead he works sneakily, undermining Slaanesh without giving him a chance to retaliate. Strangely, this is at odds with the fluff that says he battles Slaanesh for the soul of each Harlequin Solitaire. But even if the latter is true this only puts him on a par with a Chaos god that the Ork gods already outclass.

I think, for that matter, we can also rule out *any* of the Eldar gods as Khaine was touted as the most powerful of them - and indeed, in a martial way as Khorne is - and Slaanesh beat him one-on-one. On his own terms, in other words.

^ Where did Slaanesh whoop khorne ? ty

Slaanesh beat Khaine, not Khorne.

Khorne is the most powerful. You can even find that on the website when buying Khorne daemon packs.

This is direct power, though Khorne's so directly powerful that he doesn't directly fight the other gods because his power could ike, explodify the entire realm of chaos.. If one were to consider indirect power (political power, manipulaton power, ability to change things), it'd arguably be Tzeentch that's the most powerful. Tzeentch is the one that facilitates the aliances of the gods and crafts the plans, etc, so in a way, Tzeentch could be considered the leader, at least when the gods can be bothered to team up together. It's said that the entire realm of chaos exists as a tangible realm (as opposed to the formless wastes) because Tzeentch crafted it as such.

.....it's really probably easiest to just confine it to direct power. In which case allegedly Gork and Mork are stronger than Khorne (together. Individually might be a different story, but it's arguable that those two aren't even separate individuals. As an aside, one canon "interpretation" of chaos is that the Chaos gods are all just aspects of one individual, too. You could say he just has a really REALLY chaotic personality and that the Great Game is metaphorical)

The main problem with trying to compare warp entities like the Chaos Gods to physical entities like the C'Tan is that the two follow completely different laws of physics. That's like trying to compare a monster with 55 strength in one RPG system compared to a monster with 235 Attack Power in another. If you were to hypothetically yank a chaos god into the material realm to fight the C'Tan, that'd be an unfair battle for the Chaos god. If you were to somehow yank a C'Tan into the warp to fight a Chaos god, that'd be an unfair battle for the C'Tan (...actually, the C'Tan would probably just die instantly if you somehow pulled that off. The chaos god meanwhile after being yanked into the mortal realm would evaporate back into the warp instantly without a suitable vessal)

It's fairly obvious the Chaos gods have got the current C'tan *shards* beat. In that sense, they're only about as much of a god as an Avatar - who was once part of Khaine. If a Chaos god were somehow to squeeze into the material universe, even accounting for the loss in power they'd still be *many* times more powerful than the Greater Daemons they can already create. They'd have no trouble smashing apart one tiny little bit of what used to be a proper god... it'd be like squashing an ant.

Also, Tzeentch can't really be held as getting that much indirect power from all his scheming - since half the time, he screws himself over too... or does he?

JUST AS PLANNED.

Tzeentch screwing himself over only affects his present day direct power (including the size of his realm within the realm of chaos). By "indirect", I mean in terms of political power (It's Tzeentch that tends to lead the other gods when they come together) as well as knowledge and smarts (Yea, Tzeentch doesn't have his magic staff so he can't directly blow everyone up, but his knowledge puts him in position to pull off and manipulate things the other gods can't).

Khorne might be that big athelete who could snap Tzeentch like a twig, but Tzeentch is both that puppet master that pulls the strings (or alternatively, that leader you might not even know you're serving), as well as that scientist that knows how to build a nuclear bomb (and just as importantly, how to manipulate the situation into getting him the resources to do it). Khorne has more servants than Tzeentch on paper, but Tzeentch has countless amounts of servants that don't even know they're serving him, including perhaps Khorne himself.

 kinratha wrote:
Marbo.

falling that, Hive mind

Saying the hivemind is powerful is like saying the internet is powerful. It controls a vast number of systems, but it can't get up and punch me in the face.

Dump and run poster, doesn't even care to debate...just trolling out the fanbois.

It is a foolish question from a foolish person, which there is no way to answer. Enough said.

When its all said and done... the real most powerful entity is Saint Celestine.

Farseer Faenyin wrote:Dump and run poster, doesn't even care to debate...just trolling out the fanbois.

It is a foolish question from a foolish person, which there is no way to answer. Enough said.

I agree. The Chaos Gods are essentially forces of nature (Who would win in a fight, a volcano or a tsunami?), Gork and Mork might not even be real, the God Emperor/Primarchs have the most controversial portrayal ever, the Eldar Gods barely get any attention, and the C'tan Shards are written to be vague enough so that players can make their own.

The answer is clearly the Commander Farsight.

Warlord Kettri son of Egil. Of the Squats.

.GW chairman/women

 LoneLictor wrote:
Gork and Mork might not even be real

What makes you think that? Just because they aren't brought up as much as the Chaos gods?

Well, technically... NONE of these are real, considering it's a fictional universe. On that basis, nothing wrong having a good ol' fashioned debate about it.

 Mr Nobody wrote:
Saying the hivemind is powerful is like saying the internet is powerful. It controls a vast number of systems, but it can't get up and punch me in the face.

Going with that logic, the Internet can arrange for a thousand 4chaners to punch you in the face. I think I'd rather have a single Mike Tyson punch than that thousand, however weak they may be individually.

 Super Ready wrote:
Well, technically... NONE of these are real, considering it's a fictional universe. On that basis, nothing wrong having a good ol' fashioned debate about it.

Certainly, but without something substantial to back it up it just seems disingenous to simply assert that Gork and Mork might be less real than Khorne and Tzeentch. It's not like they don't make themselves felt every once in a while. 2nd edition Weirdboys had the Foot of Gork psychic power (or whatever it was called), and Snikrot's ability to re-roll rolls to hit are stated to be a consequence of Mork's patronage, for example.

On that note, don't the WHF orcs have a magic spell that literally sumons a giant foot or hand from the sky call "Hand of (G/M)ork", or "Foot of (G/M)ork?"

 Deadshot wrote:
On that note, don't the WHF orcs have a magic spell that literally sumons a giant foot or hand from the sky call "Hand of (G/M)ork", or "Foot of (G/M)ork?"

There is the Gaze of Mork (given to the Shaman by Mork (or possibly Gork)), Fists of Gork, The Hand of Gork, and Foot of Gork.

I'd go with Khorne. He's the most powerful Chaos God, most of the time at least, and the rulebook says that the 4 greater Chaos Gods are the most powerful and dangerous entities in the warp. As we all know, the warp eats the physical universe for breakfast, therefore Khorne is the most powerful of all.

If we are talking about currently existing beings in the 40k lore... my votes go to the following:

Khorne
The Silent King
Hive Mind
Gork and Mork



Khorne is the most powerful single deity that isn't half-dead (Emprah), shattered (C'tans), defeated (Kharn), etc. He can be rivaled by Tzeentch but the fluff officially states that Khorne is the most powerful Chaos god.

Necron's Silent King gets a vote for me because he is the leader of a race that managed to WIPE OUT the Old Ones and SHATTER C'tans. That's quite impressive. Of course, all the Necron Dynasties are fragmented and Silent King himself may not be as impressive in a duel but the power he could potentially command if he were to unite the Necrons is... astronomical.

Hive Mind.... only tendrils of bugs managed to reach Milky Way and they managed to screw things over pretty badly... any questions?

Okay, I admit.... Gork and Mork aren't POWERFUL like the others... but the fluff says that just like Orks, no other deities may truly defeat them forever. I mean, god(s) that can never die? In a world where gods are shattered, half-dead, defeated and more? Not too shabby me thinks.

 kinratha wrote:
Marbo.

falling that, Hive mind

High five!

Why talk of silly little gods? Vulkan is clearly the superior.

I love you, Nick Kyme.

Didn't Gork or possibly Mork make an axe and try to show off his handy work to Khorne only to find him cowering behind his throne in fear?

I also remember another one where the Emperor sensed Gork and Mork in the Warp and for the first time in his life he felt fear.

Doesn't the Chaos Gods strength come from their worshipers and Humans / Eldar committing acts associated with them? eg. War for Khorne. Which would explain why Gork and Mork are the most powerful having trillions of followers and all.

WHHHAAAAT??? Khorne cowering behind his throne in fear??? Khorne cowers from nothing, the notion of even being scared isn't even possible!!

i sure hope a pack of hungry fleshhounds doesn't come pay you
a visit, but i wouldn't count on it.

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!

 Zande4 wrote:
Didn't Gork or possibly Mork make an axe and try to show off his handy work to Khorne only to find him cowering behind his throne in fear?

I also remember another one where the Emperor sensed Gork and Mork in the Warp and for the first time in his life he felt fear.

Doesn't the Chaos Gods strength come from their worshipers and Humans / Eldar committing acts associated with them? eg. War for Khorne. Which would explain why Gork and Mork are the most powerful having trillions of followers and all.

All of that stuff is horribly inaccurate.

Chaos Gods get their strength from emotion. Gork and Mork are possibly powered by belief, but the information on them is incredibly vague and mostly hyperbole. Assuming they do exist, they seem to have very little influence in the material world.

I'm going to place my vote assuning no chaotic entities without physical bodies.
And, Void Dragon. Nothing is tougher than the Void Dragon.

Waaaghpower wrote:

And, Void Dragon. Nothing is tougher than the Void Dragon.

 LoneLictor wrote:
Gork and Mork are possibly powered by belief, but the information on them is incredibly vague and mostly hyperbole. Assuming they do exist, they seem to have very little influence in the material world.

What's that based on? Surely if we could ascribe any quotes about Gork and Mork to a character that would be inclined to exaggerate we could reasonably call it hyperbole. But as far as I know, just about every source on the Ork gods we have is from an "outside" 3rd person perspective. As near as I can tell that is as solid a source as we can possibly get about the 40k universe. Where's the argument to support calling it hyperbole? More importantly, why is Gork and Mork fluff hyperbole and not the fluff about every other god or transcendent being in the galaxy?

TiamatRoar wrote:
Khorne is the most powerful.

And yet he cannot even begin to hurt Gork and Mork, where they can abuse him like a bully shoving around a little kid on a playground.

If the Gork and Mork stuff is vague and hyperbolic, I'd point out that the Chaos stuff is worse than vague-- most of it is inherently contradictory in nature (quite possibly specifically due to it being Chaos stuff).

 Melissia wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:
Khorne is the most powerful.

And yet he cannot even begin to hurt Gork and Mork, where they can abuse him like a bully shoving around a little kid on a playground.

If the Gork and Mork stuff is vague and hyperbolic, I'd point out that the Chaos stuff is worse than vague-- most of it is inherently contradictory in nature (quite possibly specifically due to it being Chaos stuff).

The first part seems like trolling and the second part doesn't even make sense. Compared to the volumes of information about the Chaos Gods Gork and Mork barely get a mention.

Also in the Daemon codex it says that Khorne is revered through all combat in a galaxy swamped with warfare. Orks, Tyranids, Necrons all pay (involuntary) homage to Khorne by the simple act of fighting.

I would say the Hive Mind, as it seems that the Nid swarms are destined to eventually overrun the galaxy.

Um... for the record, someone mis-used the quote tags. It was someone else that said "Khorne is the most powerful", not me. Looks like it was Zaki66 that said that, yet the quote is being mis-attributed to me. I did say he's the most powerful of the Chaos Gods (you can find this on the GW website, for crying out loud) but made it clear that didn't mean he was the most powerful of EVERY god.

...anyways, is Gork and Mork easily beating Khorne actually stated by an omnipotent narrative source, or is that just a legend amongst the Orks that isn't proven to be true? (although arguably, even an "omnipotent narrative source" might be just a legend stated from the point of view of the codex and nothing more).

I don't doubt the possibility that Gork and Mork are so strong that they can beat Khorne in a fight being stated in an official source. Although that other incident brought up about Khorne cowering likely was just made up and either doesn't come from an official source, or was just an ork legend akin to Imperial Guard members claiming that Ciaphus Cain kicked Khorne in the balls. I find the idea that they made Khorne cower behind his throne to be HIGHLY dubious and the poster that posted that must be in error. Khorne's emotion is bravery, It's almost impossible for him to feel fear in the first place even if he wanted to (I say "almost" because the Chaos gods as the fluff portrayed them do seem to be able to access other emotions outside of their domain from time to time, but Khorne COWERING is a very VERY big stretch).

Gork and Mork can beat the Emperor, every C'tan, and all four chaos gods simultaneously and then pile drive Isha and Cegorach into oblivion before rebuilding Khaine, only to smash him apart again.

 Kain wrote:
Gork and Mork can beat the Emperor, every C'tan, and all four chaos gods simultaneously and then pile drive Isha and Cegorach into oblivion before rebuilding Khaine, only to smash him apart again.

Gork and Mork can't rebuild Khaine. Bringing a living thing back into one piece is unorky!

TiamatRoar wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Gork and Mork can beat the Emperor, every C'tan, and all four chaos gods simultaneously and then pile drive Isha and Cegorach into oblivion before rebuilding Khaine, only to smash him apart again.

Gork and Mork can't rebuild Khaine. Bringing a living thing back into one piece is unorky!

Gork can Choppa the pieces so hard with a chainchoppa with teeth made from planets that they'll rebuild into a fully fledged Khaine only for Mork to show up with a ridiculous shoota that fires minor chaos gods as bullets and dakkas Khaine into pieces again.

Quick note: Disagreements and different opinions do not automatically equal trolling.

And here at Dakka, we really do try to not accuse people of trolling in a thread - it rarely ends well.

If you really feel a post breaks the rules of the site, please report it using the Moderator Alert button - the yellow triangle with the exclamation point in it.

Thanks!

Gork and Mork are described by an omnipotent narrator style section as invincible, belligerent warp entities, which the other gods (including the chaos ones to my understanding) cannot hurt, The most recent description of the Ork gods is as such:

Gork and Mork are divine powerhouses, deities so strong that they are never truly defeated. They simply shrug off the attacks of other gods with a raucous laugh. Gork grins, bears his long teeth, and lands a mighty blow on his adversary's head with a spiked club the size of a comet. Mork, the master of cunning, waits until his foe isn't looking and clobbers them with a low blow.
[ Page 15, Codex: Orks, 2008 ]

Similarly, because of the nature of the Ork psyche, they don't feed Khorne with their fighting. They feed Gork and Mork. Orks are almost immune to the draw of Chaos, and corruption is extremely rare among the species, to the point of it being completely and utterly unheard of in-universe (even if it does exist in a few isolated and rare groups).

Hmm, well, the verse style of that narrative doesn't seem like it was made by Orks (otherwise it would have had their orky accent! Although it'd be hilarious if that were a translation of ork legend and the actual legend read "Gork and Mork iz da best of da gods at fightin' and winnin' and can't never lose! Da other gods get nothin' more than a WAAAGH! from them! Gork is kunningly brutal that hits you hard when you arelookin' while Mork is brutally kunnin' and hits you hard when you aren't!" (and then translated into English reads like the flowery prose in the narration).

....but yea, as it is, I don't really see any reason to deny it. Seems like Gork and Mork are definitely more powerful by what we have so far. I suppose it's telling that the Chaos Codexes don't try to present a counterpoint (although admittingly that could just be negligence. It's rare to get viewpoints that don't involve the Imperium in some direction)

TiamatRoar wrote:
Hmm, well, the verse style of that narrative doesn't seem like it was made by Orks (otherwise it would have had their orky accent! Although it'd be hilarious if that were a translation of ork legend and the actual legend read "Gork and Mork iz da best of da gods at fightin' and winnin' and can't never lose! Da other gods get nothin' more than a WAAAGH! from them! Gork is kunningly brutal that hits you hard when you arelookin' while Mork is brutally kunnin' and hits you hard when you aren't!" (and then translated into English reads like the flowery prose in the narration).

....but yea, as it is, I don't really see any reason to deny it. Seems like Gork and Mork are definitely more powerful by what we have so far. I suppose it's telling that the Chaos Codexes don't try to present a counterpoint (although admittingly that could just be negligence. It's rare to get viewpoints that don't involve the Imperium in some direction)

Well, Orks do pretty much outnumber every other faction (Tyranids not included) put together. So if their belief and emotions only fuel Gork and Mork and simple Ork belief can do what it does in the materium, then Gork and Mork's power is probably immeasurable in the immaterium.

not even matt ward could make gork and mork powerful enough to take on khorne.

he would dual wield them and use them like drum sticks to pummle any would be fools challenging his throne as king!!

 Melissia wrote:
Gork and Mork are described by an omnipotent narrator style section as invincible, belligerent warp entities, which the other gods (including the chaos ones to my understanding) cannot hurt, The most recent description of the Ork gods is as such:

Gork and Mork are divine powerhouses, deities so strong that they are never truly defeated. They simply shrug off the attacks of other gods with a raucous laugh. Gork grins, bears his long teeth, and lands a mighty blow on his adversary's head with a spiked club the size of a comet. Mork, the master of cunning, waits until his foe isn't looking and clobbers them with a low blow.
[ Page 15, Codex: Orks, 2008 ]

Similarly, because of the nature of the Ork psyche, they don't feed Khorne with their fighting. They feed Gork and Mork. Orks are almost immune to the draw of Chaos, and corruption is extremely rare among the species, to the point of it being completely and utterly unheard of in-universe (even if it does exist in a few isolated and rare groups).

Yet in the 6e rulebook the Chaos Gods are referred to as the "undisputed masters" of the Warp.

The thing about Gork and Mork is, they're ultimately powerful but have no domain. So unlike the 4 Chaos gods who might lose in a fistfight but control vast swaths of the ether realm, every last ounce of orky power is funnelled into Gork and Mork. This leaves you with two warriors who can't be beat... But also have little sway in the goings on of the universe.

Marrrbbboooooooooooooooooooo

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Gork and Mork are described by an omnipotent narrator style section as invincible, belligerent warp entities, which the other gods (including the chaos ones to my understanding) cannot hurt, The most recent description of the Ork gods is as such:

Gork and Mork are divine powerhouses, deities so strong that they are never truly defeated. They simply shrug off the attacks of other gods with a raucous laugh. Gork grins, bears his long teeth, and lands a mighty blow on his adversary's head with a spiked club the size of a comet. Mork, the master of cunning, waits until his foe isn't looking and clobbers them with a low blow.
[ Page 15, Codex: Orks, 2008 ]

Similarly, because of the nature of the Ork psyche, they don't feed Khorne with their fighting. They feed Gork and Mork. Orks are almost immune to the draw of Chaos, and corruption is extremely rare among the species, to the point of it being completely and utterly unheard of in-universe (even if it does exist in a few isolated and rare groups).

Yet in the 6e rulebook the Chaos Gods are referred to as the "undisputed masters" of the Warp.

That would be because Gork and Mork don't appear to want to do much in the warp other than giggle at each others dick punches and fart jokes, while occasionally lending power to Orks in the physical realm. The Chaos Gods truly make the Warp their own, and continually fight over it. Anyone entering the Warp is going to encounter beings of Chaos, not of Gork or Mork.

The Chaos Gods are the undisputed masters of the Warp because the most powerful entities really just don't give a feth.

 -Loki- wrote:

That would be because Gork and Mork don't appear to want to do much in the warp other than giggle at each others dick punches and fart jokes, while occasionally lending power to Orks in the physical realm. The Chaos Gods truly make the Warp their own, and continually fight over it. Anyone entering the Warp is going to encounter beings of Chaos, not of Gork or Mork.

The Chaos Gods are the undisputed masters of the Warp because the most powerful entities really just don't give a feth.

Or it could be because the Chaos Gods are more powerful.

Provide me a single instance of Gork and Mork explicitly defeating a Chaos God.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

That would be because Gork and Mork don't appear to want to do much in the warp other than giggle at each others dick punches and fart jokes, while occasionally lending power to Orks in the physical realm. The Chaos Gods truly make the Warp their own, and continually fight over it. Anyone entering the Warp is going to encounter beings of Chaos, not of Gork or Mork.

The Chaos Gods are the undisputed masters of the Warp because the most powerful entities really just don't give a feth.

Or it could be because the Chaos Gods are more powerful.

Provide me a single instance of Gork and Mork explicitly defeating a Chaos God.

Gork and Mork beat up on Nurgle once, effectively using him as a volleyball.

Citation needed.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Citation needed.

Warseer wrote:The Hunt
Gork and Mork go looking for a gigantic Squiggly beast and find it at the bottom of a huge cesspit. Also at the bottom of the cesspit is Nurgle, who has eaten all the Snotlings. Gork and Mork clobber Nurgle so hard that he spews up all the Snotlings who are still alive. Nurgle shrinks and becomes a Squiggly beast. The Snotlings then turn the Squig into a feast for Gork and Mork. This myth clearly represents the Ork triumph over Nurgle. The Orks have no fear of the realms of Nurgle, and happily thrive on Squiggly beasts that breed in their cesspits.

Either from Waaargh the Orkz, or 'Ere we go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Honestly I see no reason why the Comic Relief deities shouldn't be able to defeat everyone else with the power of slapstick.

I'd say it's variant; After all, the necron cryptek manning the Celestial Orrery probably needs to take a break at least every hundred years or so.

Why is he stronger than everyone else? Because he can blow up stars... He is morally opposed to it, but he Can.

Why does that make him stronger?

Blow up ALL stars: Necrons are unaffected, every other race in the galaxy dies, except Tyranids, who would then likely just move on to the next galaxy anyway.

Emporer? No more psykers to power him, he goes poof.

Chaos Gods? (Including Human, Eldar, and Ork) No more non-necrons to power them, they go poof.

C'tan? The necrons Already beat them. They still have no reason to do so again.

Honestly, Necrons still hold the position as the ultimate super-power within the 40K universe... they just refuse to use it, for reasons of morality, and that's only the group currently in control of said power. They get taken out by another faction, and suddenly life stops being a thing in warhammer 40k.

And all of this is coming from a Tau player, so don't think I'm just routing for the home team here.

VampireDeLaVega wrote:
What is the most powerful single being in the entire 40k series?

CREEEEEEED!!!

 Kain wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Citation needed.

Warseer wrote:The Hunt
Gork and Mork go looking for a gigantic Squiggly beast and find it at the bottom of a huge cesspit. Also at the bottom of the cesspit is Nurgle, who has eaten all the Snotlings. Gork and Mork clobber Nurgle so hard that he spews up all the Snotlings who are still alive. Nurgle shrinks and becomes a Squiggly beast. The Snotlings then turn the Squig into a feast for Gork and Mork. This myth clearly represents the Ork triumph over Nurgle. The Orks have no fear of the realms of Nurgle, and happily thrive on Squiggly beasts that breed in their cesspits.

Either from Waaargh the Orkz, or 'Ere we go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Honestly I see no reason why the Comic Relief deities shouldn't be able to defeat everyone else with the power of slapstick.

Warseer wrote:
This myth

^

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

That would be because Gork and Mork don't appear to want to do much in the warp other than giggle at each others dick punches and fart jokes, while occasionally lending power to Orks in the physical realm. The Chaos Gods truly make the Warp their own, and continually fight over it. Anyone entering the Warp is going to encounter beings of Chaos, not of Gork or Mork.

The Chaos Gods are the undisputed masters of the Warp because the most powerful entities really just don't give a feth.

Or it could be because the Chaos Gods are more powerful.

Provide me a single instance of Gork and Mork explicitly defeating a Chaos God.

They don't have to beat up a Chaos God to be more powerful. As below

Melissia wrote:Gork and Mork are divine powerhouses, deities so strong that they are never truly defeated. They simply shrug off the attacks of other gods with a raucous laugh. Gork grins, bears his long teeth, and lands a mighty blow on his adversary's head with a spiked club the size of a comet. Mork, the master of cunning, waits until his foe isn't looking and clobbers them with a low blow.
[ Page 15, Codex: Orks, 2008 ]

Remember, Warp deities are reflections of the emotions of the race that spawned them. Orks, as a race, aren't interested in galactic conquest as such, Waaaghs form when a Warband goes on the warpath, which is more about having a good fight, so it's not illogical to assume Mork and Gork would not be interested in conquest of the Warp. The races who have spawned and worshipped the Chaos Gods are interested in galactic conquest, so it's not illogical to assume the Chaos Gods attempted conquest of the Warp is due to that desire.

Gork and Mork are more powerful, that's written in fluff. The Chaos Gods are the 'masters of the Warp', that's written in fluff. Neither are mutually exclusive. Mork and Gork have no daemons to fight for them in the Warp, because as reflections of the Ork race, they're not interested in conquest, they just want to fight, which they do plenty with each other and occasionally with the actual Chaos Gods themselves (which they, as per the Ork codex, simply shrug off). The Chaos Gods are interested in conquest, because the races that emotionally feed them are, so they spawn reflections of themselves as armies and play The Game.

Show me a single quote that states they are more powerful than the Chaos Gods, specifically.

"Other gods" is a vague and not at all all-encompassing statement.

Show me where GW have stated other gods that still exist aside from the 4 Chaos Gods and Mork and Gork.

Indrick Boreale, obviously.

Ynnead (the buffering god)

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Citation needed.

Warseer wrote:The Hunt
Gork and Mork go looking for a gigantic Squiggly beast and find it at the bottom of a huge cesspit. Also at the bottom of the cesspit is Nurgle, who has eaten all the Snotlings. Gork and Mork clobber Nurgle so hard that he spews up all the Snotlings who are still alive. Nurgle shrinks and becomes a Squiggly beast. The Snotlings then turn the Squig into a feast for Gork and Mork. This myth clearly represents the Ork triumph over Nurgle. The Orks have no fear of the realms of Nurgle, and happily thrive on Squiggly beasts that breed in their cesspits.

Either from Waaargh the Orkz, or 'Ere we go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Honestly I see no reason why the Comic Relief deities shouldn't be able to defeat everyone else with the power of slapstick.

Warseer wrote:
This myth

^

What orks believe is literally true. So Ork myth is usually more like Ork reality.

Ork belief can't change history.

What would be needed in this case is a word-for-word citation of the Nurgle and Khorne incidents, really (allegedly there's an incident where Gork and Mork beat Khorne, too, if only due to a sucker punch by Mork. However, again, I haven't seen a word-for-word citation on this).

TiamatRoar wrote:
Ork belief can't change history.

What would be needed in this case is a word-for-word citation of the Nurgle and Khorne incidents, really (allegedly there's an incident where Gork and Mork beat Khorne, too, if only due to a sucker punch by Mork. However, again, I haven't seen a word-for-word citation on this).

Orks predate the Chaos Gods by millions of years.

 Kain wrote:
Orks predate the Chaos Gods by millions of years.

Do you mean the 4 main Chaos Gods?

I'm quite sure Nurgle existed before the Orks. The ancestors of the Orks were supposedly created by The Old Ones. Death and decay, however, has been part of the universe at the very start, and Nurgle is supposed to be the oldest of the 4 main Chaos Gods. However I do find it strange that Khorne only fully became existant during Terra's middle ages...

fluffstalker wrote:
Indrick Boreale, obviously.

This person knows his stuff.

ChakLong wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Orks predate the Chaos Gods by millions of years.

Do you mean the 4 main Chaos Gods?

I'm quite sure Nurgle existed before the Orks. The ancestors of the Orks were supposedly created by The Old Ones. Death and decay, however, has been part of the universe at the very start, and Nurgle is supposed to be the oldest of the 4 main Chaos Gods. However I do find it strange that Khorne only fully became existant during Terra's middle ages...

fluffstalker wrote:
Indrick Boreale, obviously.

This person knows his stuff.

Khorne, Nurgle, and Tzeentch were all formed by humans in the medieval-renaissance era. Slaanesh is even younger.

The Chaos Gods are formed from emotion, not physical concepts. Nurgle is formed out of despair, Tzeentch hope, Khorne rage, and Slaanesh desire.

And for whatever reason only humans and Eldar seem to count.

I think the order of Chaos god power is

Tzeentch
Nurgle
Khorne
Slaanesh

Slaanesh has potential to become the strongest, so the other 3 are actively working against it when needed.

Makari, luckiest grot in the universe. (ghazkhulls standard bearer). anyone who tries to beat him will fail.

though this quote from old fluff tells us that gork and mork win, just for the goosebumps it sends up yer spines:

“Gork and Mork stirred and a wave of fear passed through the warp. Suicide and incidence of violent crime climbed steeply. On Icholbar an Astropath screamed and threw himself from the balcony of a skyscraper apartment, yelling that his people were doomed. On the craftworld Hope of Other Days, an Eldar philosopher stopped listening to the atonal music of his waterchimes and began composing his death-haiku. On distant Earth, a living corpse in a golden throne opened eyes that held fear for the first time in centuries.”
Extract from In The Warp Something Stirred, Waaargh! The Orks, pg.71

 gwarsh41 wrote:
I think the order of Chaos god power is

Tzeentch
Nurgle
Khorne
Slaanesh

Slaanesh has potential to become the strongest, so the other 3 are actively working against it when needed.

Erm no, the traditional order is

Khorne
Tzeentch
Nurgle
Slaanesh

Khorne is generally the most powerful as there's a lot of human anger to feed on, while Tzeentch feeds off the hope of mankind, Nurgle gets off on it's despair, and Slaanesh on our horniness, oh and Eldar souls.

However Tzeentch is generally the most successful as he's far and away the smartest and most cunning, and everything goes according to plan for him.

On distant Earth, a living corpse in a golden throne opened eyes that held fear for the first time in centuries.”
Extract from In The Warp Something Stirred, Waaargh! The Orks, pg.71

Very nice quote.

@ Kain, I had always thought it was:

Nurgle
Khorne
Tzeentch
Slaanesh

as per 4th ed Rulebook - I'll have to look up the page quote tbh though.

 -Loki- wrote:
Show me where GW have stated other gods that still exist aside from the 4 Chaos Gods and Mork and Gork.

Cegorach and Isha, to name a couple.

As far as I know Necoho and some other minor Chaos Gods have not been retconned out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kain wrote:

What orks believe is literally true. So Ork myth is usually more like Ork reality.

Which is why so many Waaaghs!, full of belligerent Orks that think they are the ultimate shiznit, end up being entirely crushed to pieces by the Imperium or some other jerk.

Were one to take that story literally, Nurgle would be dead, yet he isn't, therefore it isn't true.

The most powerful thing in 40k is gork and possibly mork.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Show me where GW have stated other gods that still exist aside from the 4 Chaos Gods and Mork and Gork.

Cegorach and Isha, to name a couple.

As far as I know Necoho and some other minor Chaos Gods have not been retconned out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kain wrote:

What orks believe is literally true. So Ork myth is usually more like Ork reality.

Which is why so many Waaaghs!, full of belligerent Orks that think they are the ultimate shiznit, end up being entirely crushed to pieces by the Imperium or some other jerk.

Were one to take that story literally, Nurgle would be dead, yet he isn't, therefore it isn't true.

Who says that Nurgle's death conditions are the same as people? Given how Plague Marines can survive injuries that should kill them I see no reason why Nurgle can't survive a massive ass kicking.

And given that Ork belief has real, tangilable effects on reality, with blue things really being lucky, red really going faster, yellow making tangilably larger explosions, and purple orks being more stealthy to name a few things I'd say that the combined effect of the overwhelming majority of Ork kind worshipping Gork and Mork and saying they're the strongest there is makes them superior to gods inadvertently created by Humanity and the Eldar.

Ork emotion and belief pretty much solely powers Gork and Mork in the same way that Tyranid thoughts solely fuel the Hive Mind. And Orks outnumber pretty much every other sentient species put together, ergo, any warp creation of the Orks is more powerful than anything borne of Man or Eldar.

There is a great deal of difference between red vehicles going a little faster and Gork and Mork eating Nurgle.

The very citation addresses the story as a myth.

Your only cited source is invalid.

TiamatRoar wrote:
Ork belief can't change history.

What would be needed in this case is a word-for-word citation of the Nurgle and Khorne incidents, really (allegedly there's an incident where Gork and Mork beat Khorne, too, if only due to a sucker punch by Mork. However, again, I haven't seen a word-for-word citation on this).

Actually ork belief can change history.

ork dex p. 29

Waaagh! Grizgutz

Also known as the Lost Waaagh!, it was lead into the Morloq system in 978.M41 by Ork Warlord Grizgutz, a noted kleptomaniac. Due to a strange accident of Warp-travel he returned in system earlier then he launched the Waaagh! itself. Grizlutz murdered his doppelgänger to have a spare of his favourite gun and a resulting confusion stopped the Waaagh! in its tracks.

The Warp acting up =/= Ork belief changing history.

I am going to say a ork that believes he is the strongest in the universe and unkillable...

orks are the strongest psychers in the galaxy but 2 stupid to realize it, they change the physics of things just because they beleive it to be true (red ones move the fastest) somewhere it states that when a space marine picks up a ork's gun not only does it not fire ut it would break into peices, which then the peices would be picked up by other orks and continue to fire normaly.
so if a ork truly beleived he was unstopable he would just change the physics around him and regarding him to makehimself that way.

more serious answer
any of the gods, they are truthfuly all about equal in power so if they fought there wouldn't eally be one victor i think

Ah hell not that gak again...

Imperial Guardsmen use Orks weapon often, they're unreliable and pretty beat up but they'll work better than nothing

Their psychic thing makes thing works better, but not transform a wooden stick into a power weapon or make Zurglurb the Irrevelant ork boy invincible because he thinks he is

 Void__Dragon wrote:
The Warp acting up =/= Ork belief changing history.

Except Chaos has existed for less than forty thousand years and the Orks have existed for over sixty million.

And Chaos is primarily fueled by humanity which is drastically outnumbered by Ork kind.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Ah hell not that gak again...

Imperial Guardsmen use Orks weapon often, they're unreliable and pretty beat up but they'll work better than nothing

Their psychic thing makes thing works better, but not transform a wooden stick into a power weapon or make Zurglurb the Irrevelant ork boy invincible because he thinks he is

Citation? The Orks own codex says that their belief makes the guns work and that they wouldn't work otherwise. I've never heard of a Guardsmsn using a Shoota. (Besides, wouldn't a shoota break the Guardsman's shoulder?)

 Kain wrote:

Except Chaos has existed for less than forty thousand years and the Orks have existed for over sixty million.

And Chaos is primarily fueled by humanity which is drastically outnumbered by Ork kind.

I am not sure how what you wrote actually contradicts anything I just said.

Also, the Orks explicitly power Khorne. Page 11 of current Chaos codex.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Except Chaos has existed for less than forty thousand years and the Orks have existed for over sixty million.

And Chaos is primarily fueled by humanity which is drastically outnumbered by Ork kind.

I am not sure how what you wrote actually contradicts anything I just said.

Also, the Orks explicitly power Khorne. Page 11 of current Chaos codex.

It's not rewriting history because Gork and Mork predate any of the big four by sixty million years and have drawn on the power of the most successful species in the galaxy for all of it, they've been the most powerful because their chosen ones outnumber everyone else combined. Humanity hasn't even been relevant until the Dark age of tech.

In the warp, I highly doubt that the Gods suffer injuries the same way. Even if Gork and Mork beat the crap out of and ate Nurgle, he would likely still survive as he is just a reflection of the Despair in the galaxy, it'd be like nuking a Hurricane, you'd still it for a while but the conditions that started it are still there so it would return fairly shortly.

Ork emotions may fuel Khorne slightly, but the entirety of the Ork gestalt field and worship solely powers Gork and Mork, and the gestalt field is easily the most potent aspect of Ork kind, along with sheer numbers.

Also, let's take a look at the other gods quote and list who else is around.

Isha, who is a prisoner of nurgle and wouldn't be getting into fights anyway.

Cegorach who is hiding in the webway and only pops out to bop Slaanesh in the nose.

Khaine who is in a million pieces.

The Emperor who is already established as Gork and Mork's inferior given that their stirring in the warp caused his barely living corpse to actually open it's eyes in fear. .

And a handful of minor Chaos gods, some of which are little above daemon princes and given how Phil Kelly disregarded prior fluff about the Word Bearers being a unified legion I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt that he actually knows about any of them, and even then, what kind of minor god would pick a fight with the embodiments of the most successful species in the galaxy?

Logically we can infer that they were referring to the big four.

Not exactly sure what your problem is with the embodiments of Black comedy and Slapstick being stronger than the SRSBSNS Gods.

Especially since said gods can't even contain a Grey Knight mucking about in their realm.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Except Chaos has existed for less than forty thousand years and the Orks have existed for over sixty million.

And Chaos is primarily fueled by humanity which is drastically outnumbered by Ork kind.

I am not sure how what you wrote actually contradicts anything I just said.

Also, the Orks explicitly power Khorne. Page 11 of current Chaos codex.

Quote pls.

I don't have the current chaos dex.

Hive mind.

I would say Sly Marbo.
Srsly.

OT: In all this fighting about Gork+Mork, the basic crux of the matter is that Orks believe them to be the most powerful, so they are.
Yeah-No. I don't buy that, and Orks will still power up Khorne, due to the fact that...they're fighting SOMEONE and I think it says somewhere that all fights make the big K happy.
Also, it's possible that G+M are different kinds of god, as they seem to be a non-living embodiment of a culture, a style of life, whereas the Chaos gods are emotions gone wild.
Also pretty much every single ork believes himself to be invincible, but the very existence of Yarrick proves that to be false.
My honest opinion is probably the very idea of the warp itself, as it seems to be a big mix of emotions, with the gods being forms of them.
So yeah. Vagueness ftw.

ork belief relies on massed number of orks believing it - one ork says he's invincible, the orks around him will shoot him to see if he is, and laugh 'cos he's not.

ghazkhulls meteoric rise to power probably had some boost as more orks believed in him as the biggest, baddest ork around - he probably got fractionally larger than if he'd somehow gained the power under the radar.

ork weapons, they are unreliable and work much less effectively if it's not an ork that's using them, but they do work, and work better for orks because all da orks believe that shootas shoot. if a mek comes up with a new invention, and all da orks around fink it'll explode, the mek's probably going to die. so the meks big-up their inventions to the point where all da orks are gathering to see it work, believing it'll work.

no doubt orks fuel khorne, but only so much as bloodshed, not for hatred & anger, they probably fuel nurgle more than khorne during a WAAAGH! as they are having an exceptionally fun time doing it, and nurgle is the embodiment of disease and happiness.

i'll also agree with inky that gork and mork are fed by more than just emotions, and to be fair i think orks lack complex emotions, they'll get happy and sad and angry as it suits them, but they're not lingering. the most orks will do is hold a grudge. so gork n mork are fed through ork psychic resonance more than emotion - as long as da orks are da orks, da ork gods will be there to wander grumpily through the warp getting in the way of all the smaller gods schemes. I think it's a case of gork and mork are the most powerful, but not the most dangerous (they couldn't care less about attacking outside the warp, there's orks to do that for 'em!)

 Bobthehero wrote:
Ah hell not that gak again...

Imperial Guardsmen use Orks weapon often, they're unreliable and pretty beat up but they'll work better than nothing

Their psychic thing makes thing works better, but not transform a wooden stick into a power weapon or make Zurglurb the Irrevelant ork boy invincible because he thinks he is

lol was more of a joke answer to be honest that's why I put a 2nd one bout them all being equal at the bottom

If Gork and Mork hypothetically are the most powerful, I'd say chances are higher of it being due to the sheer number of Orks, not the Orks' belief manifesting as reality.

(although it's possible the two stem from the same source. Faith and belief have always been able to bend the warp in WH40k, which bleeds into reality here and there, and in some interpretations, Faith bends reality itself in large enough numbers. Therefore, it's possible that the Orks warp reality due to their sheer numbers of believers AND Gork and Mork are the most powerful due to the Orks' sheer numbers. However, that Gork and Mork would be the most powerful due to the Orks' power to bend reality would be wrong in this hypothetical case, even if the two stem from the same source)


Me personally, even before seeing all this hullabaloo about Gork and Mork being the most powerful came up on forums, I always felt Gork and Mork might have been the most powerful in terms of direct power but lacked direction. So they'd go and punch out Nurgle one day but then they'd leave leaving Nurgle to brush himself off and say "How rude!" (instead of try to conquer Nurgle's territory. They'd also be unable to finish Nurgle off, at least without any concerted drawn-out effort which they can't be bothered to give, because actually perma-killing a god is ridiculously difficult)

It's also stated that Gork and Mork reincarnate when they get killed, just like Orks do (according to Orkish belief), so presumably Gork and Mork do lose every once in a while.

.....though I suppose that's just personal belief. Did we get a word-for-word citation of the Nurgle and Khorne incidents with Gork and Mork? That last "citation" of the Nurgle one was a paraphrase, I think.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Ah hell not that gak again...

Imperial Guardsmen use Orks weapon often, they're unreliable and pretty beat up but they'll work better than nothing

Their psychic thing makes thing works better, but not transform a wooden stick into a power weapon or make Zurglurb the Irrevelant ork boy invincible because he thinks he is

Citation? The Orks own codex says that their belief makes the guns work and that they wouldn't work otherwise. I've never heard of a Guardsmsn using a Shoota. (Besides, wouldn't a shoota break the Guardsman's shoulder?)

Ciaphas Cain books, civilians use the Ork weapons, Death World, where Catachan use the guns in a pinch.

Hell about half the books of the IG has the human use Ork weapon in a pinch. The worst that happens is that they're unreliable.

I think it's a competition.

In the background of each army there are at least one powerful being, if not multiple.

It would be a competition between all these, however the hive mind does seem pretty powerful.

Necroes wrote:
I'd say it's variant; After all, the necron cryptek manning the Celestial Orrery probably needs to take a break at least every hundred years or so.

Why is he stronger than everyone else? Because he can blow up stars... He is morally opposed to it, but he Can.

Why does that make him stronger?

Blow up ALL stars: Necrons are unaffected, every other race in the galaxy dies, except Tyranids, who would then likely just move on to the next galaxy anyway.

Emporer? No more psykers to power him, he goes poof.

Chaos Gods? (Including Human, Eldar, and Ork) No more non-necrons to power them, they go poof.

C'tan? The necrons Already beat them. They still have no reason to do so again.

Honestly, Necrons still hold the position as the ultimate super-power within the 40K universe... they just refuse to use it, for reasons of morality, and that's only the group currently in control of said power. They get taken out by another faction, and suddenly life stops being a thing in warhammer 40k.

And all of this is coming from a Tau player, so don't think I'm just routing for the home team here.

I fail to see how the Necrons are going to survive all the stars blowing up.

The rulebook says on page 144;
"Warp space is not an empty void, but an infinite and incomprehensible realm inhabited by many strange entities, the most powerful and dangerous of which are the four Great Gods of Chaos - Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh"
Not much room left for interpreting G&M to be the most powerful after that.

 illuknisaa wrote:
Quote pls.

I don't have the current chaos dex.

I think he means;
"The galaxy knows no peace, and Khorne has grown powerful indeed. Uncounted worlds resound with the clamour of battle, every scream and death rattle a small devotion to his glory. With each new dawn, ichor mingles with blood on a million battlefronts, each massacre and cataclysm fresh meat for the Lord of Battle's table. Eldar and human, Daemon and Ork, Tyranid and Tau; all are gore-splattered playthings dancing for Khorne's personal gratification."
It goes on further to talk about how he's taken to having a bunch of Orks fighting outside his fortress forever.

Animus wrote:
The rulebook says on page 144;
"Warp space is not an empty void, but an infinite and incomprehensible realm inhabited by many strange entities, the most powerful and dangerous of which are the four Great Gods of Chaos - Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh"
Not much room left for interpreting G&M to be the most powerful after that.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kain wrote:

It's not rewriting history because Gork and Mork predate any of the big four by sixty million years and have drawn on the power of the most successful species in the galaxy for all of it, they've been the most powerful because their chosen ones outnumber everyone else combined. Humanity hasn't even been relevant until the Dark age of tech.

I truly have no idea why you are bringing this up or how it is relevant to what I said, to be honest.

Also, can you actually, you know, prove that the Orks outnumber the myriad races of the galaxy combined (With the exception of the Tyranids and the Necrons, who by their very nature can't fuel Chaos).

In the warp, I highly doubt that the Gods suffer injuries the same way. Even if Gork and Mork beat the crap out of and ate Nurgle, he would likely still survive as he is just a reflection of the Despair in the galaxy, it'd be like nuking a Hurricane, you'd still it for a while but the conditions that started it are still there so it would return fairly shortly.

The story is explicitly referred to as a myth. An allegory.

Ork emotions may fuel Khorne slightly, but the entirety of the Ork gestalt field and worship solely powers Gork and Mork, and the gestalt field is easily the most potent aspect of Ork kind, along with sheer numbers.

"Slightly"? They are officially Khorne's favorite species for the amount they fuel him.

Also, let's take a look at the other gods quote and list who else is around.

Isha, who is a prisoner of nurgle and wouldn't be getting into fights anyway.

Cegorach who is hiding in the webway and only pops out to bop Slaanesh in the nose.

Khaine who is in a million pieces.

The Emperor who is already established as Gork and Mork's inferior given that their stirring in the warp caused his barely living corpse to actually open it's eyes in fear. .

And a handful of minor Chaos gods, some of which are little above daemon princes and given how Phil Kelly disregarded prior fluff about the Word Bearers being a unified legion I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt that he actually knows about any of them, and even then, what kind of minor god would pick a fight with the embodiments of the most successful species in the galaxy?

Logically we can infer that they were referring to the big four.

This is all rendered moot by the quote in the official rulebook signifying the Chaos Gods as the most powerful beings in the Warp, which Animus was kind enough to save me the trouble of finding. I thought such a quote existed, but was not sure where.

Not exactly sure what your problem is with the embodiments of Black comedy and Slapstick being stronger than the SRSBSNS Gods.

Especially since said gods can't even contain a Grey Knight mucking about in their realm.

My "problem", lol?

I used to believe Gork and Mork were the strongest too, until further evidence swayed me from that opinion. I've been an Ork fan longer than I have Chaos.

I don't care which of the Warp gods is the strongest, because at the end of the day, all are but meager whelps compared to the awesome strength of the mighty Mag'ladroth.

Animus wrote:
The rulebook says on page 144;
"Warp space is not an empty void, but an infinite and incomprehensible realm inhabited by many strange entities, the most powerful and dangerous of which are the four Great Gods of Chaos - Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh"
Not much room left for interpreting G&M to be the most powerful after that.

Gork and Mork specifically don't give at turd about the warp They prefer bottlecaps and pointy sticks. More powerful probably, but by far less ambitious, They prefer to scheme about which of the two can punt a star farther

So now Gork and Mork don't reside within the Warp huh?

I didnt say that now did I? They can very well reside in the warp, or in realspace, or in the collective Waagh gestalt, or even in a salt shaker if they think there's a good fight up in there.

They just don't care. The chaos gods want to spread the imaterium through the universe, the void dragon wanted to eat the stars, the old ones wanted to nurture and develop the young races of the galaxy, but Gork and Mork don't care about any of it.

'Waagh! the orks' mentions that they regularly fight with the chaos gods and that they just laugh during; And even if they did manage to get a good smack down, they're Orks. They'd just run away, build a bigger pointier stick, and hit whoever 'beat' in the gonads with it in some sneak attack and say that they won then.

And fair enough about wanting a quote from a book that doesn't mention 'legend' or 'mythos', but by the same token, are there mentions of literal throw downs between the other chaos gods? I was under the impression that they tended to act through their demons and the like.

Also, heads up, but the quote from Waagh the orks, that mentions 'Myth' re-appears in the most current codex on page 15, with the 'This is a myth' part redacted.

 davou wrote:
I didnt say that now did I? They can very well reside in the warp, or in realspace, or in the collective Waagh gestalt, or even in a salt shaker if they think there's a good fight up in there.

They just don't care. The chaos gods want to spread the imaterium through the universe, the void dragon wanted to eat the stars, the old ones wanted to nurture and develop the young races of the galaxy, but Gork and Mork don't care about any of it.

'Waagh! the orks' mentions that they regularly fight with the chaos gods and that they just laugh during; And even if they did manage to get a good smack down, they're Orks. They'd just run away, build a bigger pointier stick, and hit whoever 'beat' in the gonads with it in some sneak attack and say that they won then.

And fair enough about wanting a quote from a book that doesn't mention 'legend' or 'mythos', but by the same token, are there mentions of literal throw downs between the other chaos gods? I was under the impression that they tended to act through their demons and the like.

Also, heads up, but the quote from Waagh the orks, that mentions 'Myth' re-appears in the most current codex on page 15, with the 'This is a myth' part redacted.

Which quote are you talking about?

Not the one I addressed with Kain surely (The one with Nurgle), since that quote does not in fact appear on page 15 of the Ork codex.

What page 15 of the Ork codex does state however is that the Ork gods are explicitly a reflection in the "immaterial dimension of the Warp".

Which the Chaos Gods are explicitly the most powerful beings within. Huh.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

What page 15 of the Ork codex does state however is that the Ork gods are explicitly a reflection in the "immaterial dimension of the Warp".

Which the Chaos Gods are explicitly the most powerful beings within. Huh.

Again, you seem to be trying to make it seem like I said that they don't exist in the warp; why? I said they don't care about it, they don't care about it any more than corporeal Orks would care about the planet they live on.

and page 15 says 'Gork and Mork are diving power houses, deities so strong they are never truly defeated. They simply shrug of the attacks of the other gods with a raucous laugh"

Why would all powerful and vastly superior gods butt heads against something like a child kicking at the shins?

Yes, I know what it says, and it could support your case, were it not for the many sources stating that the Chaos Gods are the most powerful beings to reside in the Warp. Which Gork and Mork also reside in.

Therefore, the Chaos Gods are more powerful than Gork and Mork.

there is a third option. Gork and Mork AREN'T ACTUAL GODS. They don't exist as gods the way the 4 major powers of chaos do. (Or FIVE if you still count malal as something that exists...) This would explain why the Orkish gods have no realm in the warp, no daemonic servants and cannot be KILLED. The only direct intervention that Gork and Mork have made felt in the setting are the Foot of Gork type of Psychic powers. Now its important to note that chaos worshippers can channel; psychic power irrelevant of their chaos patron. There CAN be battle Psykers who worship khorne, Infact there ARE because khorne still needs them to get his Daemons out into the real world. Originally it was stated that ALL sorcery came from tzeentch, if so then even more so are Psychic powers NOT a reflection of which deity you pay fealty to.

I honestly feel Gork and Mork are the embodiment of the Orkish Ideal, they only exist where Orks gather in Massive Waaaghs, where their combined psychic potential calls them into beeing to preform these seeming miracles. How can you even feel gods stir in the warp for the first time if they have ALWAYS been there AND are the divine powerhouses the ork gods are reputed to be. I honestly feel that this might have been a refrence to something like the war for armageddon or another simlairly massive sector swallowing waagh gathering so much orks together that their combined psychic potential may have made the emperor wet his pants. Afterall he is only the combination of a few thousand human psyker souls. The power called into beeing by MILLIONS of orks gathering in a waagh frenzy would BE overwhelming.

Ofcourse as i said this is my theory that i read between the lines, but I think it would explain much. The orks gestalt power creating gods because the ORKS believe them to exist, at least while there are enough orks together to sustain them with unified belief befoe they fade away as the waagh itself runs out of steam and splinters up. It would also explain how the Orks still give power to Khorne whilst having their own deities to whom they pledge their skulls.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Yes, I know what it says, and it could support your case, were it not for the many sources stating that the Chaos Gods are the most powerful beings to reside in the Warp. Which Gork and Mork also reside in.

Therefore, the Chaos Gods are more powerful than Gork and Mork.

The president is the most powerful man in America. Lots of other men in that country could kick his ass.

What do the sources mean by "powerful"?


Also: Im sure I read some fluff somewhere about an ork being held prisoner by the Imperium and someone (maybe an inquisitor?) questioning it about its shoota. Upon looking at the weapon they found that the bullets were larger than the barrel and could not possibly be fired out of it. The ork was not very helpful and the person questioning it threw the shoota at it in frustration, the ork picked it up and shot him dead.

Its just the Inquisition not willing to admit they don't understand how Ork stuff works, so they blame it on something else.

Firstly it should be mentioned that in the 40k universe the Warp is quite like a photo negative of the physical universe. It is a realm all on its own, but it's dimensions are basically the same as the real, physical universe or Materium as GW likes to call it.

That being said, the entities that reside in the warp are, in a sense, local to the entities that exist outside of it. The Galaxy in 40k which I don't think has been officially given a name in-setting (hereafter referred to as the Milky Way for simplicity's sake) is without a doubt the stage for the main drama of the game, but it has been clearly stated that there exists much outside of it. The Old Ones first "crossed the sea of stars" into this galaxy to seed it with life, there may be many more Old Ones elsewhere in the universe that are busy seeding other galaxies with life and cleaning up after the Tyranids as they gobble them up. The Silent King in his terrible new bit of fluff has also left the galaxy and, after seeing the incoming Tyranids, returned to it.

The Eldar (who have ruled the galaxy for longer than any other group) did not worry about the realm of chaos. Their codex states "It did not hunger for souls as it does now". Likewise, if the terrible pseudo-canon stories of the shamans are to be believed than it corroborates the Eldar's experience. The Warp was, at some relatively recent point in history, a tamed realm. (Mileage on this may vary with the codex you pick up).

I bring this up here because in an discussion of 40k's power scale, it should not be overlooked that when a codex makes a statement like "The most powerful beings in the warp" What they really mean is "The most power beings in the part of the warp we are concerned with". The warp, just like real space... goes on forever, there are no boundaries to it that have any meaning or significance. It's it possible that other warp beings exist in other parts of the warp that could rival the four biggest demon we've manage to produce in our local warp-region. I'm not saying that there are... but making a case that there could be.

Now Void_Dragon has a bad habit of being overly literal when it suits his argument to be so... reading a single piece of lore and then saying "This is irrevocably true unless someone can find me a piece of lore that explicitly states otherwise" is naïve in the extreme and really just bad form in the 40k setting, which is rife with self-contradiction. Moreover, the codices are written from perspective...

Sadly, I am also compelled to join the silly foray and offer my two-cents about the most powerful being:

The Emperor seems like the best candidate for #1 from my view
The combination of His favored son, a unique-1 time-union of all four chaos powers, and circumstance created the #2 contender, who is now dead.

The scale really breaks down from there... The C'tan are just so poorly written and forced into the setting that they only half fit... I can concede that the Dragon is probably #3, the other C'tan are of no significance
Any given Chaos god at his peak would be #4, the others would be vying for position #5
Gork & Mork could be argued for #6

The scale gets even lower here with the Eldar pantheon... Khaine is clearly the best of them at #7, the others are of no matter

Then you get into the "lesser god" territory which is basically tied IMO for power with the Primarchs (Cegorach, Isha, etc). And from there you take a LONG dive down to the named characters of the game and the power scale gets a lot more concrete and definite.

/happy trolling

MY MARINES AND WOLVES AND GAURD AND ELDAR!!!!

 En Excelsis wrote:
Now Void_Dragon has a bad habit of being overly literal when it suits his argument to be so... reading a single piece of lore and then saying "This is irrevocably true unless someone can find me a piece of lore that explicitly states otherwise" is naïve in the extreme and really just bad form in the 40k setting, which is rife with self-contradiction. Moreover, the codices are written from perspective...

No, that is what the Gork and Mork supporters are doing.

Page 15 of the Ork codex is one of if not the only piece of fluff that might suggest the Ork gods are more powerful than the Chaos Gods (The only other candidate being the old Titanicus quote, which is even more subject to interpretation), but there is a multitude of quotes painting the Chaos Gods as the mightiest beings within the Warp.

I can concede that the Dragon is probably #3

#1 actually, even a slimmer of the Dragon's former power was capable of fighting the Emperor. The Emperor notably had to find the weakest chink of its necrodermis to do any damage.

From what I have read here, Void_dragon has only one quote to combat Gork/Mork being stronger, and it is a vague over encompassing quote used against the Ork codex vague and over encompassing quote. But the real point is 40k Lore is so vague or inconsistent that to insist either are winners is pretty silly.

I personally like the Ctan in their heyday to be the strongest.

You can't really compare C'Tan vs Chaos, though, at least not without setting a "within the material realm" parameter first. In which case, the chaos gods are actually not THAT powerful within the material realm. I guess they could conjure up a warp storm or something IF one assumes the one that led to the Abyssal Crusade was made by them, but I doubt they'd be able to direct it very well (otherwise we'd see a lot more direct warp storming going on I imagine)

Within the immaterial realm... well, a C'Tan can't even go there in the first place.

Necroes wrote:
Chaos Gods? (Including Human, Eldar, and Ork) No more non-necrons to power them, they go poof.

sjnscale wrote:Ynnead (the buffering god)

Well, it could be just a belief, but some seers (Eldrad and Kysaduras) predicted the rebirth of Ynnead after the death of the last eldar, with enough strenght to defeat slaanesh.
so it's all about the power of chaos gods.
-if they have the same power, then Ynnead could become stronger than anyone (in a single match )
-if slaanesh could be the strongest.... same thing
-if slaanesh is weaker than one of the others... well it could at least be a draw!
anyway chaos gods are not just powered by faith, but by destruction too, so i'm not sure that the star-booming technique could be a bad thing for them, and Ynnead would gain power from dead eldars...

 kinratha wrote:
Marbo.

Always marbo

 illuknisaa wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Except Chaos has existed for less than forty thousand years and the Orks have existed for over sixty million.

And Chaos is primarily fueled by humanity which is drastically outnumbered by Ork kind.

I am not sure how what you wrote actually contradicts anything I just said.

Also, the Orks explicitly power Khorne. Page 11 of current Chaos codex.

Quote pls.

I don't have the current chaos dex.

He gave you the page number. Asking more is pushing it. If he gave a page number I think that's enough to verify it.
Orks indulge in violence and warfare. I may not have the current chaos dex but I just got a copy of the tome of blood in the mail a few hours ago, and the orks are listed as a race that feed Khorne.
Ah here we are, It's a planet filled with orks dedicated to Khorne due to the unending war
Listed under "Worlds of the Blood God":

Berin is a barren rock with orks infesting the planet who are bigger and tougher than other orks due to adverse conditions.

The Kroot also feed Khorne.
The Warp Gods are raw emotions that all sapient life possesses made flesh. With every act on their patron emotion they get stronger.They're stronger than the Ork Gods that are only fed by the orks.

The Chaos gods are only fed by specific emotions, though. Gork and Mork appear to be reflections of Orks as a whole in the warp, so presumably they would get a lot more mileage per Ork than any Chaos god ever could.

Gretchin number 459684?

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 illuknisaa wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Except Chaos has existed for less than forty thousand years and the Orks have existed for over sixty million.

And Chaos is primarily fueled by humanity which is drastically outnumbered by Ork kind.

I am not sure how what you wrote actually contradicts anything I just said.

Also, the Orks explicitly power Khorne. Page 11 of current Chaos codex.

Quote pls.

I don't have the current chaos dex.

He gave you the page number. Asking more is pushing it. If he gave a page number I think that's enough to verify it.
Orks indulge in violence and warfare. I may not have the current chaos dex but I just got a copy of the tome of blood in the mail a few hours ago, and the orks are listed as a race that feed Khorne.
Ah here we are, It's a planet filled with orks dedicated to Khorne due to the unending war
Listed under "Worlds of the Blood God":

Berin is a barren rock with orks infesting the planet who are bigger and tougher than other orks due to adverse conditions.

The Kroot also feed Khorne.
The Warp Gods are raw emotions that all sapient life possesses made flesh. With every act on their patron emotion they get stronger.They're stronger than the Ork Gods that are only fed by the orks.

I was more interested what was in the actual quote not if it is true or not.

And the planet you are talking about is the one Tuska invaded after razing 7 (or 9) deamon worlds to the ground. Khorne deamon where even running away from the orks at first. After Tuska died Khorne was so impressed with him that he gave Tuska immortality and a planet to fight on.

 Gutsnagga wrote:

VampireDeLaVega wrote:
What is the most powerful single being in the entire 40k series?

CREEEEEEED!!!

THIS!

...Or our infamous Draigo? 'Cause GW didn't let Ward to revive a Primarch, he tried to make a substitute.

Ah the good old tale of when Gork and Mork beat up Nurgle.
Makes me chuckle every time...

The Outsider.

If an entire Tyranid Hive Fleet pees its pants and is afraid of even going NEAR it, that dude packs some serious punch.

 illuknisaa wrote:

I was more interested what was in the actual quote not if it is true or not.

And the planet you are talking about is the one Tuska invaded after razing 7 (or 9) deamon worlds to the ground. Khorne deamon where even running away from the orks at first. After Tuska died Khorne was so impressed with him that he gave Tuska immortality and a planet to fight on.

Sorry, I am way too fething lazy to actually type the entire quote out, lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:
The Outsider.

If an entire Tyranid Hive Fleet pees its pants and is afraid of even going NEAR it, that dude packs some serious punch.

I am explicitly the more powerful C'tan though.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

I am explicitly the more powerful C'tan though.

When exactly does your vacation on Mars end?

VANCE MOTHERFETHING STUBBS