Recently there has been a spate of suicides by teenage kids due to Cyber bullying and a ground swell of anger at such sites as Ask.FM for allowing this thing to happen. Although terrible I wonder if these deaths are highlighting a bigger issue. Over the years I have seen the next generation demand more freedoms at a younger age. How many of use have thought "they grow up quick now"? There also seems to be more of a tendency to treat kids like adults at a younger age, however has Cyber bullying exposed the falsehood of this thinking?
Although kids like to think they are more grown up nowadays, are they really? Does Cyber bullying blow this way of thinking out of the water? As an adult, I might feel angry at a trolling or abuse over the internet, but I'd never feel the need to kill myself over it. I'd just either ignore, bite back or walk away. To me it seems to prove that although kids like to think they "grown up" , from a psychological perspective they aren't. You could compare it to underage sex, although hormones are kicking in from 12 onwards, psychologically they aren't ready. Which is why we have laws on it. Do we as a society need to reappraise the freedoms & responsibilities we allow our kids to have?
Only the weak(or mentally ill, or just plain unlucky) or dumb(same) perform the actions you are thinking of. Most kids aren't as mature as they think they are, but there is a very obvious spectrum. There is a double standard at high schools(Thank God from my perspective). The thing that sucks about being a kid is that the lowest common denominator makes life suck for you- the reason we have study hall in assigned seats without talking(yes, talking in study hall-homework is finished in the first few minutes)- dumb and dumber kept on shouting to eachother in the back row. This sucks over the course of a year- imagine being trapped in a dirty box for how I feel.
FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote: Only the weak(or mentally ill, or just plain unlucky) or dumb(same) perform the actions you are thinking of. Most kids aren't as mature as they think they are, but there is a very obvious spectrum. There is a double standard at high schools(Thank God from my perspective). The thing that sucks about being a kid is that the lowest common denominator makes life suck for you- the reason we have study hall in assigned seats without talking(yes, talking in study hall-homework is finished in the first few minutes)- dumb and dumber kept on shouting to eachother in the back row. This sucks over the course of a year- imagine being trapped in a dirty box for how I feel.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say; your post is really quite incoherent.
"Cyberbullying" is not restricted to teenagers being mean to other teenagers. It is a phenomenon which encompasses quite a few age groups, and even if the parents do get involved there is not necessarily much that they can do outside of comforting their child.
"Cyberbullying" is not restricted to teenagers being mean to other teenagers. It is a phenomenon which encompasses quite a few age groups, and even if the parents do get involved there is not necessarily much that they can do outside of comforting their child.
The parents of the bully need to be more involved. Parents need to be able to look at some things objectively and not think along the lines of "My little Timmy is an Angel, he would never do something like that"
Better parenting from the parents of the bully would go a long way to reducing bullying in general.
Overall, I think the internet magnifies bullying. People, not just kids, can take something the wrong way in a text based medium far more easily than if it was face to face. Some people may also be more inclined to be a bully on the internet due to the illusion of anonymity or not actually having to personally see their victim.
Cyberbullyiing......Really how hard is it to not go on the internet or go to another page. Just stop talking to that person. If it leaks over to REAL LIFE then talk to the person who started it. If they do not stop ignore it. Really how hard is it. Coming from a male id just go to the root of it and end it there. Being a female i would assume it would be much more diffecult to deal with. But they should do what they do best,talk about it with some one.
SheSpits wrote: Cyberbullyiing......Really how hard is it to not go on the internet or go to another page. Just stop talking to that person. If it leaks over to REAL LIFE then talk to the person who started it. If they do not stop ignore it. Really how hard is it. Coming from a male id just go to the root of it and end it there. Being a female i would assume it would be much more diffecult to deal with. But they should do what they do best,talk about it with some one.
SheSpits wrote: Cyberbullyiing......Really how hard is it to not go on the internet or go to another page. Just stop talking to that person. If it leaks over to REAL LIFE then talk to the person who started it. If they do not stop ignore it. Really how hard is it. Coming from a male id just go to the root of it and end it there. Being a female i would assume it would be much more diffecult to deal with. But they should do what they do best,talk about it with some one.
SheSpits wrote: Cyberbullyiing......Really how hard is it to not go on the internet or go to another page. Just stop talking to that person. If it leaks over to REAL LIFE then talk to the person who started it. If they do not stop ignore it. Really how hard is it. Coming from a male id just go to the root of it and end it there. Being a female i would assume it would be much more diffecult to deal with. But they should do what they do best,talk about it with some one.
The point is it often DOES leak over to "Real Life" With bullies at high school using the cyber bulling as ammunition against you. And i think the reason kids are asking for more freedom at a younger age is because we live in a world that allows more freedom from parents, with cell phones allowing you to do more stuff farther then you could. but parents are not wising up and still thinking in a narrowed view of what kids can do.
This is the crux of the issue:
Internet used to be very much part of "another life".
Now, Facebook and Twitter among other systems are part of the every day life. You can no-longer just go by another handle or change to another web page when these are your own or a common class or school forum.
How does it feel when someone tags a picture of you that you do not want posted, or copies a less than great quote of you and adds it to their sig?
Social and character assassination can be a favorite game for some with little regard to the outcome.
So many of us have cell phones with texting that we do it anywhere (no references to washrooms...) it is part of us now.
I have found there are only three ways to protect against bullies:
1) Anonymity: do not give them a reason to notice you, do not act like a victim.
2) If they take a poke at you, if it requires a comment, make it seem like they do not matter.
2) If they feel they still have to poke at you: Go after them, hard. Make them your hobby. Finding out their real name just like daemons tend to get them to quiet down a bit.
The trick is to stay on top of the security settings on your hardware and software: review the Facebook settings on what people have access to, for goodness sake remove GPS access to the photo application: some of your pictures can point to where you live which would make great fodder for some.
Hope no-one here has any of these issues and I am still getting things together on "best practices" with my kids, they are just beginning to get into this.
<<edit>> Did not answer OP question: yes, they need guidance, it is another learned skill like teaching them sports: how not to get hurt and give as well as take, teamwork (social skills).
As a parent you show them how to cross a street so you need to show them how not to get run over on the information highway (Or do it to someone else).
They do not have good judgment or we would not be legally responsible for them for so long.
It is too easy to be less than careful when the person is not in the room with you.
Society will adapt to the new situation. Social spaces need rules and enforcement if they are not to degenerate into howling wastelands. We already see calls for Ask.fm to be shut down, and for Twitter to introduce a "Yellow Triangle". We have also seen a number of prosecutions of people for stuff they have said on text messages, Twitter and so on.
SheSpits wrote: Cyberbullyiing......Really how hard is it to not go on the internet or go to another page. Just stop talking to that person. If it leaks over to REAL LIFE then talk to the person who started it. If they do not stop ignore it. Really how hard is it. Coming from a male id just go to the root of it and end it there. Being a female i would assume it would be much more diffecult to deal with. But they should do what they do best,talk about it with some one.
Well, every thread's got one or two.
Cyberbullying was really an eventuality, and in this day and age of technology it is somewhat inescapable if you want to have a facebook or twitter or something. You can't both hide and be social.
The idea of killing yourself because random people on the internet say mean things to you speaks leagues of your own internal frailty more than it does the character of others. The world is mean and terrible, this will never change. I'd rather focus on helping people figure out how to cope with things like that (like, you know, get off the internet) then trying to put a stranglehold on all the mean people out there. The former seems much more manageable than the latter.
FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote: Only the weak(or mentally ill, or just plain unlucky) or dumb(same) perform the actions you are thinking of.
Suicide is not limited to "the weak or dumb". Look at the most recent visible case and see why it happened.
Hey look! Not exactly limited to cyber bullying, other important outside factors. "The plain unlucky" also qualifies.
Sorry post is so incoherent, rant... I feel very strongly about people my age doing dumb things. Sorry for the original comment, but it is my experience at my school..
I think the problem for minors exposed to cyberbullying (and all bullying, really), as opposed to adults, is essentially a lack of freedom. As an adult, I have the freedom to leave a situation in which I may be subjected to bullying. I can choose to stop going to X social place, I can choose to move to a new neighborhood, or I can choose to find a new workplace (not the optimum solutions, but still possible). Additionally, there can be harsher penalties for bullying in the adult world, as there are laws against slander/libel, and bullies can be fired from the workplace. Minors, however, generally do not have these options. They must still go to the same school where the bullies are. Even if they are punished (ooo, detention), the bullies still get to go to the same school, thus, the situation endures. Schools rarely have the freedom to take the actions they should take.
Why is it a Bully can get away with bullying with little more than a proverbial slap on the wrist, yet a kid that eats his poptart a certain way gets suspended.
I'd say schools have freedom to act but in all the wrong places.
FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote: Only the weak(or mentally ill, or just plain unlucky) or dumb(same) perform the actions you are thinking of.
Suicide is not limited to "the weak or dumb". Look at the most recent visible case and see why it happened.
That's just awful, hope some sort of justice is found for her.
The problem with a lot of cyber bullying is that it makes the bullying relentless. Kids get bullied at school, on the bus home, now they can't go online to chatrooms or a forum, or to any social networking sites with out the scum following them around or just producing a huge amount of hate for them elsewhere. Even if you turn off the computer, knowing people are producing masses of hateful stuff and passing it around to others in school and then having your face rubbed in it in the morning is intolerable. God help you if they get hold of your mobile phone number.
Some may say that resorting to suicide or self harm is just due to some sort of underlying weakness or internal problem, but these are kids still growing, they're liable to be emotional about things, and putting up with abuse at all hours day after day is crushing. Not everyone is a tough guy, they shouldn't have to be, the problem is with the bullies.
SheSpits wrote: Cyberbullyiing......Really how hard is it to not go on the internet or go to another page. Just stop talking to that person. If it leaks over to REAL LIFE then talk to the person who started it. If they do not stop ignore it. Really how hard is it. Coming from a male id just go to the root of it and end it there. Being a female i would assume it would be much more diffecult to deal with. But they should do what they do best,talk about it with some one.
Woooow.
Spoiler for very bad language, used for an example and education purposes. Mods, if this is not okay, please delete it and let me know.
Spoiler:
"Listen up, [expletive du jour], I'm going to fething pound on you tomorrow after school. And if you run away, I'm going to make sure that me and five other people pound on you when we catch you -and we will catch you. I'm going to punch you in the fething mouth if you say anything, and I'm going to keep at it until you lose your front teeth. Would you like that? WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE THE LITTLE BITCH WITH NO FRONT TEETH? I'm on your facebook. If you delete me I'm going to punch your fething teeth out. And if I see you post about this, I'm going to hurt you. Maybe break your little bitch arm. Then I'm going to post your phone number all over your facebook and let everyone know that you like having your mouth fethed like a little bitch, you like that you little bitch? Yeah, I thought so, I'll see you after school tomorrow. Have a great little bitch day."
So, SheSpits, would you care to suggest what your expected outcome of trying to reason with that would be? Also, please tell me how someone would avoid that, day after day. And if you can't avoid that, then please tell me how you would cope with experiencing absolute terror and powerlessness like that every single day. Be honest, tell me if you think you could ignore that. (and if the mods do delete my example, then simply consider that it was just that awful.)
SheSpits wrote: Cyberbullyiing......Really how hard is it to not go on the internet or go to another page. Just stop talking to that person. If it leaks over to REAL LIFE then talk to the person who started it. If they do not stop ignore it. Really how hard is it. Coming from a male id just go to the root of it and end it there. Being a female i would assume it would be much more diffecult to deal with. But they should do what they do best,talk about it with some one.
Woooow.
Spoiler for very bad language, used for an example and education purposes. Mods, if this is not okay, please delete it and let me know.
Spoiler:
"Listen up, [expletive du jour], I'm going to fething pound on you tomorrow after school. And if you run away, I'm going to make sure that me and five other people pound on you when we catch you -and we will catch you. I'm going to punch you in the fething mouth if you say anything, and I'm going to keep at it until you lose your front teeth. Would you like that? WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE THE LITTLE BITCH WITH NO FRONT TEETH? I'm on your facebook. If you delete me I'm going to punch your fething teeth out. And if I see you post about this, I'm going to hurt you. Maybe break your little bitch arm. Then I'm going to post your phone number all over your facebook and let everyone know that you like having your mouth fethed like a little bitch, you like that you little bitch? Yeah, I thought so, I'll see you after school tomorrow. Have a great little bitch day."
So, SheSpits, would you care to suggest what your expected outcome of trying to reason with that would be? Also, please tell me how someone would avoid that, day after day. And if you can't avoid that, then please tell me how you would cope with experiencing absolute terror and powerlessness like that every single day. Be honest, tell me if you think you could ignore that. (and if the mods do delete my example, then simply consider that it was just that awful.)
Here is an idea- contact the police. If someone said that to your face, the same thing would be in order.
SheSpits wrote: Cyberbullyiing......Really how hard is it to not go on the internet or go to another page. Just stop talking to that person. If it leaks over to REAL LIFE then talk to the person who started it. If they do not stop ignore it. Really how hard is it. Coming from a male id just go to the root of it and end it there. Being a female i would assume it would be much more diffecult to deal with. But they should do what they do best,talk about it with some one.
Woooow.
Spoiler for very bad language, used for an example and education purposes. Mods, if this is not okay, please delete it and let me know.
Spoiler:
"Listen up, [expletive du jour], I'm going to fething pound on you tomorrow after school. And if you run away, I'm going to make sure that me and five other people pound on you when we catch you -and we will catch you. I'm going to punch you in the fething mouth if you say anything, and I'm going to keep at it until you lose your front teeth. Would you like that? WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE THE LITTLE BITCH WITH NO FRONT TEETH? I'm on your facebook. If you delete me I'm going to punch your fething teeth out. And if I see you post about this, I'm going to hurt you. Maybe break your little bitch arm. Then I'm going to post your phone number all over your facebook and let everyone know that you like having your mouth fethed like a little bitch, you like that you little bitch? Yeah, I thought so, I'll see you after school tomorrow. Have a great little bitch day."
So, SheSpits, would you care to suggest what your expected outcome of trying to reason with that would be? Also, please tell me how someone would avoid that, day after day. And if you can't avoid that, then please tell me how you would cope with experiencing absolute terror and powerlessness like that every single day. Be honest, tell me if you think you could ignore that. (and if the mods do delete my example, then simply consider that it was just that awful.)
Here is an idea- contact the police. If someone said that to your face, the same thing would be in order.
SheSpits wrote: Cyberbullyiing......Really how hard is it to not go on the internet or go to another page. Just stop talking to that person. If it leaks over to REAL LIFE then talk to the person who started it. If they do not stop ignore it. Really how hard is it. Coming from a male id just go to the root of it and end it there. Being a female i would assume it would be much more diffecult to deal with. But they should do what they do best,talk about it with some one.
Woooow.
Spoiler for very bad language, used for an example and education purposes. Mods, if this is not okay, please delete it and let me know.
Spoiler:
"Listen up, [expletive du jour], I'm going to fething pound on you tomorrow after school. And if you run away, I'm going to make sure that me and five other people pound on you when we catch you -and we will catch you. I'm going to punch you in the fething mouth if you say anything, and I'm going to keep at it until you lose your front teeth. Would you like that? WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE THE LITTLE BITCH WITH NO FRONT TEETH? I'm on your facebook. If you delete me I'm going to punch your fething teeth out. And if I see you post about this, I'm going to hurt you. Maybe break your little bitch arm. Then I'm going to post your phone number all over your facebook and let everyone know that you like having your mouth fethed like a little bitch, you like that you little bitch? Yeah, I thought so, I'll see you after school tomorrow. Have a great little bitch day."
So, SheSpits, would you care to suggest what your expected outcome of trying to reason with that would be? Also, please tell me how someone would avoid that, day after day. And if you can't avoid that, then please tell me how you would cope with experiencing absolute terror and powerlessness like that every single day. Be honest, tell me if you think you could ignore that. (and if the mods do delete my example, then simply consider that it was just that awful.)
Here is an idea- contact the police. If someone said that to your face, the same thing would be in order.
Okay, so you thought about that for almost one second. That's a start.
Now, play out the rest of your "solution". Using the information provided in the example, I want you to tell me how you think the next day will turn out. The next week, and next month, as well. Honestly. As an exercise, please type up a short paragraph (100 words sould suffice) of what will follow after contacting the police. No single-sentence platitudes, please.
FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote: Only the weak(or mentally ill, or just plain unlucky) or dumb(same) perform the actions you are thinking of.
Suicide is not limited to "the weak or dumb". Look at the most recent visible case and see why it happened.
That's just awful, hope some sort of justice is found for her.
The problem with a lot of cyber bullying is that it makes the bullying relentless. Kids get bullied at school, on the bus home, now they can't go online to chatrooms or a forum, or to any social networking sites with out the scum following them around or just producing a huge amount of hate for them elsewhere. Even if you turn off the computer, knowing people are producing masses of hateful stuff and passing it around to others in school and then having your face rubbed in it in the morning is intolerable. God help you if they get hold of your mobile phone number.
Some may say that resorting to suicide or self harm is just due to some sort of underlying weakness or internal problem, but these are kids still growing, they're liable to be emotional about things, and putting up with abuse at all hours day after day is crushing. Not everyone is a tough guy, they shouldn't have to be, the problem is with the bullies.
The most important part is pretty much what you mention about the fact that these kids are still growing.
There is a big reason that you are seeing more awareness about suicides among teenagers and an attempt at seeing why, with a lot of positing seemingly tied to perceptions of sexual orientation or ideas of no self-worth or that they are individuals who feel they have nowhere to turn to and no support structure in place to make them feel like they matter.
Being a teenager having to cope with all that is associated with being a teenager is enough, add in a situation that allows the students at your school to ostracize or exclude you and constantly belittle you or make you feel as though you are less than human?
It becomes a nightmare for a teenager.
It is not something I find acceptable at all, and I have made a very big point of ensuring that my younger brothers know that behaving in such a manner is completely unacceptable.
I also think it speaks Volumes of our world in where we blame people of bullying for being bullied, As if they can gt away from it. Well To be honest. Even if you shut yourself away and try to not confront a bully, they don't have to even be talking to bullies to let them affect you, they pick up on what you are sensitive on and BAM they got you. What they say can stick in your mind like a bad Katy Perry song. It doesn't leave, eating ate you for a bit. And if you let the bullies push you from things like facebook you are still being bullied. I used to sit behind someone who would regularly stab me with a pencil. I told the teacher, he moved the guy. Y'know what that did? Made him mad and got EVERYONE in the class against me. So now im being bullied in my whole class. Well there in no escape from that.
I was chatting to the wife about this last night. It was on the news and I said I'd posted here about it. One of the points she made is that parents aren't really aware of what's going on. The kid is in their bedroom, quietly surfing the web, they aren't out on the street getting into trouble. So it's automatically assumed that all is ok.
Channel 4 news was interviewing a lad last night who is well aware of the bully and has been subject to it, however he is able to play the game and let it ride over him. They showed his mother the conversations and she was dumbfounded at what was being said, even more so that 64+ people had liked one of the offensive comments.
It's easy to bet parents up over this, but they are responsible for a big chunk of what goes on by getting around age restrictions for their kids. Facebook has an age restriction, but how many parents have set up an account for their kids even though they are under age? One of my inlaws set up a Facebook account for my step granddaughter, who was only 7. For crying out loud, what type of thinking is that!?! What about the 18+ online games? How many of us have heard spotty 14 years ranting & whining over the head set?
Bullying became fotm for the media again with cases linked to the use of such arcane and wondrous child rearing devices such as X-Pads and I-stations and faceFM.
Computers, the internet and modern communication methods are somewhat misunderstood by a significant segment of the population. Parents are totally unprepared to talk to their children about what the chatbook or Spotty or the Goggle etc are all about. I assume being too lazy, tired or scared to talk about something where they have little or no understanding.
There are parents that wouldn't allow a child to view an 18 rated movie and yet let their kids onto a computer with an internet connection or even a games console and use product rated for 18 years and over only.
Bullying helps a beta/weaker individual grow and take control of their own lives. It had a wonderful impact on me. Cyber bullying is only a different form of it, but without the physical implications.
Look at GSP/a lot of fighters and boxers - turned them into a positive force. It's a lesson to learn.
Auxellion wrote: Bullying helps a beta/weaker individual grow and take control of their own lives. It had a wonderful impact on me. Cyber bullying is only a different form of it, but without the physical implications.
Look at GSP/a lot of fighters and boxers - turned them into a positive force. It's a lesson to learn.
Auxellion wrote: Bullying helps a beta/weaker individual grow and take control of their own lives. It had a wonderful impact on me. Cyber bullying is only a different form of it, but without the physical implications.
Look at GSP/a lot of fighters and boxers - turned them into a positive force. It's a lesson to learn.
Wow. This is perhaps the douche-est thing I have ever read on Dakka, and that is saying something. Bravo, sir.
Auxellion wrote: Bullying helps a beta/weaker individual grow and take control of their own lives. It had a wonderful impact on me. Cyber bullying is only a different form of it, but without the physical implications.
Look at GSP/a lot of fighters and boxers - turned them into a positive force. It's a lesson to learn.
Auxellion wrote: Bullying helps a beta/weaker individual grow and take control of their own lives. It had a wonderful impact on me. Cyber bullying is only a different form of it, but without the physical implications.
Look at GSP/a lot of fighters and boxers - turned them into a positive force. It's a lesson to learn.
Wow. This is perhaps the douche-est thing I have ever read on Dakka, and that is saying something. Bravo, sir.
Going by his avatar (also the douchiest on Dakka) it's the kind of attitude you'd expect. "No pain no gain, brah!"
Auxellion wrote: Bullying helps a beta/weaker individual grow and take control of their own lives. It had a wonderful impact on me. Cyber bullying is only a different form of it, but without the physical implications.
Look at GSP/a lot of fighters and boxers - turned them into a positive force. It's a lesson to learn.
Wow. This is perhaps the douche-est thing I have ever read on Dakka, and that is saying something. Bravo, sir.
Going by his avatar (also the douchiest on Dakka) it's the kind of attitude you'd expect. "No pain no gain, brah!"
Am I a bad person for wanting to cyber bully the feth out of him/her now? I guess that's a bit much for someone who left a gakky comment.
Auxellion wrote: Bullying helps a beta/weaker individual grow and take control of their own lives. It had a wonderful impact on me. Cyber bullying is only a different form of it, but without the physical implications.
Look at GSP/a lot of fighters and boxers - turned them into a positive force. It's a lesson to learn.
Wow. This is perhaps the douche-est thing I have ever read on Dakka, and that is saying something. Bravo, sir.
Going by his avatar (also the douchiest on Dakka) it's the kind of attitude you'd expect. "No pain no gain, brah!"
Am I a bad person for wanting to cyber bully the feth out of him/her now? I guess that's a bit much for someone who left a gakky comment.
No, he said he approves of cyber bullying, so go right ahead.
Auxellion wrote: Bullying helps a beta/weaker individual grow and take control of their own lives. It had a wonderful impact on me. Cyber bullying is only a different form of it, but without the physical implications.
Look at GSP/a lot of fighters and boxers - turned them into a positive force. It's a lesson to learn.
Wow. This is perhaps the douche-est thing I have ever read on Dakka, and that is saying something. Bravo, sir.
I try not to judge people by their avatars, lest someone judge me by mine and become disappointed when they discover I am not in fact an editorial chimp.
SheSpits wrote: Cyberbullyiing......Really how hard is it to not go on the internet or go to another page. Just stop talking to that person. If it leaks over to REAL LIFE then talk to the person who started it. If they do not stop ignore it. Really how hard is it. Coming from a male id just go to the root of it and end it there. Being a female i would assume it would be much more diffecult to deal with. But they should do what they do best,talk about it with some one.
Woooow.
Spoiler for very bad language, used for an example and education purposes. Mods, if this is not okay, please delete it and let me know.
Spoiler:
"Listen up, [expletive du jour], I'm going to fething pound on you tomorrow after school. And if you run away, I'm going to make sure that me and five other people pound on you when we catch you -and we will catch you. I'm going to punch you in the fething mouth if you say anything, and I'm going to keep at it until you lose your front teeth. Would you like that? WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE THE LITTLE BITCH WITH NO FRONT TEETH? I'm on your facebook. If you delete me I'm going to punch your fething teeth out. And if I see you post about this, I'm going to hurt you. Maybe break your little bitch arm. Then I'm going to post your phone number all over your facebook and let everyone know that you like having your mouth fethed like a little bitch, you like that you little bitch? Yeah, I thought so, I'll see you after school tomorrow. Have a great little bitch day."
So, SheSpits, would you care to suggest what your expected outcome of trying to reason with that would be? Also, please tell me how someone would avoid that, day after day. And if you can't avoid that, then please tell me how you would cope with experiencing absolute terror and powerlessness like that every single day. Be honest, tell me if you think you could ignore that. (and if the mods do delete my example, then simply consider that it was just that awful.)
Here is an idea- contact the police. If someone said that to your face, the same thing would be in order.
Okay, so you thought about that for almost one second. That's a start.
Now, play out the rest of your "solution". Using the information provided in the example, I want you to tell me how you think the next day will turn out. The next week, and next month, as well. Honestly. As an exercise, please type up a short paragraph (100 words sould suffice) of what will follow after contacting the police. No single-sentence platitudes, please.
It's actually wonderful advice: if given to an adult. To a kid, it's horrible. A kid will be frightened that "telling=violence". So feel free to give that advice to an adult-that counts as a serious threat and charges can be pressed. It's not quite the same when kids are involved. Know your audience when giving advice (directed at the poster who said to call the cops. Lots of people involved in quotes, don't want the wrong one thinking it was directed at them). Again: cop call=correct for adults. Cop call=piss poor, worthless advice to a child. If you can't understand the difference, I can't hurt my brain dumbing it down enough for you to understand. That part is a general statement that applies to all posters who would say to just call the cops and the "problem will be solved".
What I hope I can convey to my kids is that they "talk" to me when this happens. The hard part is for kids to "tattle" so to speak. I know I had a hard time talking to my parents when I was bullied... they only found out about it when a letter was sent home stating that I was "in school suspension for fighting"... which led to an epic showdown between my pop and the principle (Its a story, I'll tell if if ya'll interested).
I want my boyz to have thick skin... life is too short to really affected by bullying... My mindset that I've cultivated is something I want them to have early... and that is, when this happen, is to have:
Zero. feths. Given.
In my opinion, when it comes to cyber bullying you are only the victim as long as you allow yourself to be, just hit block.
The stance of my local police force (I live in the UK) is block the person trying to bully you, they won't take any action unless the person is relentlessly hounding you after you attempt to sever contact and if the bully could potentially physically harm you.
Sheokronath wrote: In my opinion, when it comes to cyber bullying you are only the victim as long as you allow yourself to be, just hit block.
See, I'm wondering this. Say the person is on Facebook. Why on earth have they even added the person who picks on them as a friend? I'm not 100% following the train of thought that would lead someone to add (or even if you fell out with them block and/or unfriend them) them to their friend list.
Even today (hypothetically, I don't go on FB anymore) if one of the people who picked on me in school tried to friend me I'd tell them where to shove it. I would not piss on any of them if they were on fire. It boggles my mind. Seriously.
That and the mainstream media misusing the words "Troll" and "Trolling". They have zero clue what Trolling is. Trolling is a art.
Grimtuff wrote: See, I'm wondering this. Say the person is on Facebook. Why on earth have they even added the person who picks on them as a friend? I'm not 100% following the train of thought that would lead someone to add (or even if you fell out with them block and/or unfriend them) them to their friend list.
The problem isn't the victim friending the bully on Facebook. It's more that the bully is friended with many other people at the same school as the victim (who may be friended with the victim and are passing it on). When I was kid, if someone wanted to spread a vicious lie about someone else, they had to actually put some time and legwork into it. Today, you just tweet it and everybody in school knows about it in seconds.
Grimtuff wrote: See, I'm wondering this. Say the person is on Facebook. Why on earth have they even added the person who picks on them as a friend? I'm not 100% following the train of thought that would lead someone to add (or even if you fell out with them block and/or unfriend them) them to their friend list.
The problem isn't the victim friending the bully on Facebook. It's more that the bully is friended with many other people at the same school as the victim (who may be friended with the victim and are passing it on). When I was kid, if someone wanted to spread a vicious lie about someone else, they had to actually put some time and legwork into it. Today, you just tweet it and everybody in school knows about it in seconds.
Yes, but that's not really what I'm asking. I'm referring to the direct messages (much like what was posted by azazel earlier in the thread). Surely such a thing is not possible if they're not friends with you on such a site. I mean, I know the feeling of the rumour mill (my own personal one was that I was gay. My friends told me not to bother, even though it killed any chance you would have with women. This is why I would not piss on them if they were on fire) and how much it affects people, but it wasn't what I was referring to.
Auxellion wrote:Bullying helps a beta/weaker individual grow and take control of their own lives. It had a wonderful impact on me. Cyber bullying is only a different form of it, but without the physical implications.
Look at GSP/a lot of fighters and boxers - turned them into a positive force. It's a lesson to learn.
This is one of the most magnificent trolling attempts I've seen in a long time. Even the avatar fits the PUA/asperberger's theme.
You, sir, are the Daniel Day-Lewis of trolling on Dakka.
Kilkrazy wrote:The solution to bullying is to make it plain that it will be punished, not tolerated, by society.
This.
Also, I'm a big fan of explaining to kids that prison rules may apply, and that bullies will always be tough with their friends, but have to be alone sometimes. Patience and malice are the greatest tools available to those who are bullied within an apathetic or indifferent system.
To all those who are trying to find fault in my very-quickly-written example, please consider the idea that "I'm going to check up on you, and if you don't add me to your twitter/facebook/whatever I'll break your leg" is not at all unreasonable, assuming it's even necessary given these are all social networks which are in no way segregated from the in-person social network that is a school.
Do not attempt to circumvent the problem like cowards: come up with a solution, and explain how you think your solution will play out in approximately 100 words.
Sheokronath wrote: In my opinion, when it comes to cyber bullying you are only the victim as long as you allow yourself to be, just hit block.
That works on some sites that allow you better security options, but what about sites such as forums, for example? I hope that nobody on dakka has been a victim of cyber bullying by another member (and if you have, I encourage you to contact a mod about it), but the ability to have multiple throw-away accounts purely for use with tormenting someone by circumventing blocks and ignores makes it a lot harder to deal with, especially if the bullies know how to evade ISP-bans. Facebook gives you the ability to police who can see and/or contact you, but a lot of other places on the internet that are also social do not have this ability.
At this point, I feel I must mention that it is NOT the fault of the websites, because it's easy to see how my comments could be misunderstood and/or taken out of context. I personally feel that PMs on websites should be restricted to only people you have on your friends list (not those who have you on theirs), but that's about as far as websites can go without shutting down to avoid hijacking threads with abuse etc. Unfortunately, there will always be ways for bullies to attack their victims, and shutting down websites is akin to cutting off a head of the hydra; without the ability to use that one place, the bullies will try and find others to use instead. Hell, if people are supportive of banning websites that 'allow' (used in the loosest way possible, since it's not so much 'allowing' it to happen as simply being unable to stop it happening) bullying, why aren't they campaigning to ban speech? I got names hurled at me on a daily basis in school - why are the bullies not having their mouths sewn shut? Perhaps ban the use of limbs, since they can be used to send physical signals of hate. But anyway, I think I'm getting off the topic here.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that 'just hit block' is far from as simple as it sounds. No bully will be deterred just by being unable to message someone on facebook, hell, it might even make them more determined, since they're obviously having an impact. Implying that the victim is in any way responsible for the fact that they are bullied is utter bs, born of misinformed opinions; it not only belittles the victim's plight, but it also justifies the bully's actions; it's like saying rape victims were asking for it by wearing certain clothes; it's attempting to justify the unjustifiable purely because you are unwilling to believe that the attacker is completely to blame, and such opinions are what build the utterly reprehensible cultures we have to tackle on a daily basis.
By your banal opinion, by living I was allowing myself to be bullied, and thus I could not be a victim; would your suggestion have been that I take my life so that I could not allow myself to be bullied?
Auxellion wrote: Bullying helps a beta/weaker individual grow and take control of their own lives. It had a wonderful impact on me. Cyber bullying is only a different form of it, but without the physical implications.
Look at GSP/a lot of fighters and boxers - turned them into a positive force. It's a lesson to learn.
How much do you guys wanna bet that Auxelion's avatar isn't actually him?
Just saying people, that post could actually be legit. As in some people actually do get stronger from adversity instead of buckling. I count myself one of those people.
He might just be too young to realize that putting your standards on someone else can be insensitive.
Necroshea wrote: Just saying people, that post could actually be legit. As in some people actually do get stronger from adversity instead of buckling.
Some people, yes. But it'll depend on the intensity of the bullying. I didn't experience bullying per se, just general dickish behaviour every day at school, and I'm probably stronger mentally for it than if I'd have been schooled at home or something like that. But bullies sometimes pick on one person mercilessly and it can be too much.
Wolfstan wrote: Recently there has been a spate of suicides by teenage kids due to Cyber bullying and a ground swell of anger at such sites as Ask.FM for allowing this thing to happen. Although terrible I wonder if these deaths are highlighting a bigger issue. Over the years I have seen the next generation demand more freedoms at a younger age. How many of use have thought "they grow up quick now"? There also seems to be more of a tendency to treat kids like adults at a younger age, however has Cyber bullying exposed the falsehood of this thinking?
Although kids like to think they are more grown up nowadays, are they really? Does Cyber bullying blow this way of thinking out of the water? As an adult, I might feel angry at a trolling or abuse over the internet, but I'd never feel the need to kill myself over it. I'd just either ignore, bite back or walk away. To me it seems to prove that although kids like to think they "grown up" , from a psychological perspective they aren't. You could compare it to underage sex, although hormones are kicking in from 12 onwards, psychologically they aren't ready. Which is why we have laws on it. Do we as a society need to reappraise the freedoms & responsibilities we allow our kids to have?
It all went down hill when we decided 8 year olds didn't have to work in the coal mines.
Kilkrazy wrote: The solution to bullying is to make it plain that it will be punished, not tolerated, by society.
Ah, but too many subscribe to the notion of "boys will be boys" and all that, right?
It also must be made plain to those people that their attitudes are intolerable.
If it's not permitted in face-to-face confrontations, why is it allowed to happen on the internet?
It's written down, and not just one person's word against another's.
Cyberbullying should not happen, as it is so easy to police. If only the rules were enforced, as with most things like this.
Skinnereal wrote: Cyberbullying should not happen, as it is so easy to police. If only the rules were enforced, as with most things like this.
Uh, what?
Every year brings a new generation of littles arses just ready to be stupid on the Internet. There will always people mean people, and there's no realistic way to stop that. The focus should be on teaching people to cope instead of just wasting resources fighting an inexhaustible supply of dbags.
Skinnereal wrote: Cyberbullying should not happen, as it is so easy to police. If only the rules were enforced, as with most things like this.
Uh, what?
Every year brings a new generation of littles arses just ready to be stupid on the Internet. There will always people mean people, and there's no realistic way to stop that. The focus should be on teaching people to cope instead of just wasting resources fighting an inexhaustible supply of dbags.
Each of these sites have rules, and users are supposed to follow them.
If schools have zero-tolerence policies, and they don't do this kind of thing on the streets, they think the internet is fair game.
If the sites used for this are lax in their enfocement of the rules, they often end in suicide.
If the kind of thing mentioned here happened in the street, the police would class it as verbal abuse, and there are laws and penalties for doing it.
Until these little arses are banned and barred from these sites, it's going to keep happening. Each new batch will do the same things, and it's just the same as in real life.
If they get away with it, they'll keep doing it.
If the rules are enforced, persitent dbags will keep signing up to do it again, but once word gets around that the ban-hammer has been swung, have-a-go morons will be disuaded from trying it.
"Grow a pair" is all well and good, but if there's no-comeback on repeat offenders, what good are these sites.
Dakkadakka manages it (mostly), so what is going on here that doesn't happen elsewhere?
Auxellion wrote: Bullying helps a beta/weaker individual grow and take control of their own lives. It had a wonderful impact on me. Cyber bullying is only a different form of it, but without the physical implications.
Look at GSP/a lot of fighters and boxers - turned them into a positive force. It's a lesson to learn.
Wow. This is perhaps the douche-est thing I have ever read on Dakka, and that is saying something. Bravo, sir.
Going by his avatar (also the douchiest on Dakka) it's the kind of attitude you'd expect. "No pain no gain, brah!"
Am I a bad person for wanting to cyber bully the feth out of him/her now? I guess that's a bit much for someone who left a gakky comment.
No, he said he approves of cyber bullying, so go right ahead.
Agreed that one who feels a need to "bully" is a mentally weak individual (they do not see other means of gaining control) but it is at the expense of others.
The problem with this is they "train" people to be victims, their dog to kick, it takes a strong will to fight that, not easily done for children.
Discipline and development of skills in a positive manner makes for healthy people, I agree we have a responsibility with our children to show them other ways of doing things online or physically.
I was raised by a narcissist, you have two choices dealing with that kind of tyranny in all things: succumb or fight them every inch of the way.
I have taught myself and my kids to deal with these bullies by making them our hobby until they back off.
I have also taught us to reward "wanted" behavior.
Give as you get, I just have to watch my overzealous response to bullies or I in turn will be the oppressor.
Dakkadakka manages it (mostly), so what is going on here that doesn't happen elsewhere?
Perhaps that we aren't actually a social network site, or a site where people can be easily identified?
I don't doubt that it happens on sites that aren't social networking ones, or sites where someone has displayed their true self, but we haven't experienced cyber bullying (that we know about; once again, if anyone IS being bullied by another user on this site, please don't suffer in silence) because we don't make it clear who we are.
If someone who was being cyber bullied elsewhere was revealed to have an account here, then bullies may very well come here to torment them, but Dakka is nowhere near the first port of call for such miscreants, and as such avoids most of the trouble by combining that fact with us being a closer community than most.
Kilkrazy wrote: The solution to bullying is to make it plain that it will be punished, not tolerated, by society.
Agreed.
I have an ADHD kid, for a while he hit a kid every day.
We tried everything but he "laughed" them all off.
He actually told me he hit a particular kid because he knew he would not hit back.
I promised him if he hit anyone from that point on he would be spanked.
If he lied about it he would get one more.
He did it once.
He was punished (not out of anger, told him what would happen and took my time).
He never did it again.
Would you believe he is actually happier?
He said he did not know how to stop until then. Weird.
He actually has friends now and gets invited to parties.
Grimtuff wrote: See, I'm wondering this. Say the person is on Facebook. Why on earth have they even added the person who picks on them as a friend? I'm not 100% following the train of thought that would lead someone to add (or even if you fell out with them block and/or unfriend them) them to their friend list.
The problem isn't the victim friending the bully on Facebook. It's more that the bully is friended with many other people at the same school as the victim (who may be friended with the victim and are passing it on). When I was kid, if someone wanted to spread a vicious lie about someone else, they had to actually put some time and legwork into it. Today, you just tweet it and everybody in school knows about it in seconds.
But if you beat them senseless outside of school for their rumor, then they can facebook pics of whats left of their face. Everyone wins.
When in doubt brick the problem right out.*
*Frazzled is in no way condoning the use of bricks to solve all your problems. That would be wrong.
Auxellion wrote: Bullying helps a beta/weaker individual grow and take control of their own lives. It had a wonderful impact on me. Cyber bullying is only a different form of it, but without the physical implications.
Look at GSP/a lot of fighters and boxers - turned them into a positive force. It's a lesson to learn.
How much do you guys wanna bet that Auxelion's avatar isn't actually him?
I have a fairly brutal view on this subject through going through middle/high school - Cyber bullying is something else entirely - I was never damaged by online harassment, but others throughout my high school did. They aren't comparable as much as this thread seems to make them. Online harassment puts up the “Invincible/Anonymous/Emotionless” wall – while these confrontations in person are less then what they are online. I posted off an iPod while on lunch previously – I apologize for my quick post.
Tannhauser42 wrote: Ah, but too many subscribe to the notion of "boys will be boys" and all that, right?
I do - but to a smaller extent. It was a normal thing for me to get into a handful of fights in high school. Teasing/verbal abuse (To others and abuse directed back) was a regular thing. There is a bare minimum level of thick skin that should exist when teasing/verbally communicating. As soon as you bridge to an online back and forth - emotion/fear gets stripped and it becomes increasingly more brutal.
Kilkrazy wrote: The solution to bullying is to make it plain that it will be punished, not tolerated, by society.
Bullying should always be addressed and dealt with. When it is ignored it stacks up and causes damage.
To my previous post - a small amount of actual physical bullying is necessary to understand how it is even after high school IMHO. Cyber bullying is something else entirely.
I agree with a few posters who mention telling an adult/reporting it. Online confrontations have records/you have actual collateral. Verbal teasing in classes/the workplace? Not as much. You can respond to the physical threats easier then the online assaults. If I knew what I know now - I would have told friends to record/show hateful messages to their parents in middle school other students would bombard them with.
Grimtuff wrote: See, I'm wondering this. Say the person is on Facebook. Why on earth have they even added the person who picks on them as a friend? I'm not 100% following the train of thought that would lead someone to add (or even if you fell out with them block and/or unfriend them) them to their friend list.
The problem isn't the victim friending the bully on Facebook. It's more that the bully is friended with many other people at the same school as the victim (who may be friended with the victim and are passing it on). When I was kid, if someone wanted to spread a vicious lie about someone else, they had to actually put some time and legwork into it. Today, you just tweet it and everybody in school knows about it in seconds.
Yes, but that's not really what I'm asking. I'm referring to the direct messages (much like what was posted by azazel earlier in the thread). Surely such a thing is not possible if they're not friends with you on such a site. I mean, I know the feeling of the rumour mill (my own personal one was that I was gay. My friends told me not to bother, even though it killed any chance you would have with women. This is why I would not piss on them if they were on fire) and how much it affects people, but it wasn't what I was referring to.
Agreed. I do not have a FB/twitter/online profile for anything besides hobby related forums. If you don't have one, you can't really be damaged by it. I have numerous cousins/friends who have kids that have a FB/twitter/instagram at the age of 12. That is a horrible idea waiting to happen.
To my previous post - a small amount of actual physical bullying is necessary to understand how it is even after high school IMHO
And in my honest opinion, that is absolute bs, and is exactly the sort of misinformed opinion that needs to be eradicated.
Indeed. Does this proffer that there will be physicall bullying after high school? Mr. Smith and Wesson and 13 of his posse insure that that is not the case.
To my previous post - a small amount of actual physical bullying is necessary to understand how it is even after high school IMHO
And in my honest opinion, that is absolute bs, and is exactly the sort of misinformed opinion that needs to be eradicated.
Yeah, in Canada people don't usually beat each other up to resolve things or to improve their status so I don't see how physical bullying will teach me important life lessons.
To my previous post - a small amount of actual physical bullying is necessary to understand how it is even after high school IMHO
And in my honest opinion, that is absolute bs, and is exactly the sort of misinformed opinion that needs to be eradicated.
You need a trigger to generate confidence.
You can join a sports team, learn judo/sign up for classes, or compete in something that tests your physical and mental strength. It doesn't necessarily have to be “Fighting the Bully” - but confidence has to build from somewhere. Lifting weights/competing in sports (Cycling ironically) built up my own shield where verbal harassment doesn’t affect me. I wish it was another way, but this is how I see it ending. “Fighting” the bully is the clear cut way I’ve seen this work.
To my previous post - a small amount of actual physical bullying is necessary to understand how it is even after high school IMHO
And in my honest opinion, that is absolute bs, and is exactly the sort of misinformed opinion that needs to be eradicated.
Indeed. Does this proffer that there will be physicall bullying after high school? Mr. Smith and Wesson and 13 of his posse insure that that is not the case.
Not physical - I can talk about verbal harassment in the professional setting of an office (Interns vs. VPs/Bigs) – it exists after schooling still. It’s something that we need to rid honestly, but I have no idea how to go about doing this.
To my previous post - a small amount of actual physical bullying is necessary to understand how it is even after high school IMHO
And in my honest opinion, that is absolute bs, and is exactly the sort of misinformed opinion that needs to be eradicated.
Yeah, in Canada people don't usually beat each other up to resolve things or to improve their status so I don't see how physical bullying will teach me important life lessons.
This may be a poorly created American mindset honestly. In GER/AUS? May be different. Just browse through some teen shows on TV and look at what seems to be the "Norm"
Then again I'm from NJ with the most "douche" avatar I can produce trying to validate the losing side here
A 'small amount of physical bullying' isn't what's going on here.
The kind of bullying that results in suicide is a targeted and continuous harassment of children and young people that goes on for years. The worst part is the victim cannot get away from it. They have to keep going back to school every single day. In many cases teachers are unable or even unwilling to act.
There's a difference between getting into fights, being teased and 'boys will be boys' and the kind of abuse that drives a person to suicide. Cyber bullying is even more insidious in that it removes any kind of safe haven the victim thought they had previously.
Saying bullying makes the weak strong is a stupid thing to say. It might do it to some people but not everyone is the same. More to the point, is it worth having someone kill themselves and their family be destroyed by their death just so a handful of other people can be strong?
School should be a safe learning environment for anyone.
Auxellion wrote: You need a trigger to generate confidence.
<snip>
You can join a sports team, learn judo/sign up for classes, or compete in something that tests your physical and mental strength. It doesn't necessarily have to be “Fighting the Bully” - but confidence has to build from somewhere.
To slouch and look down and away are great triggers as a "victim" for them to pick up on.
Judo was good but Kendo is ideal: Look them in the eye, yell real loud (Kia) and whack them with a stick, following up with a hard two handed push, no blocks, just attack.
You only have to do that once (minus the stick) and no-one would mess with you again.
There is something to be said on confidence as a great deterrent.
Not physical - I can talk about verbal harassment in the professional setting of an office (Interns vs. VPs/Bigs) – it exists after schooling still. It’s something that we need to rid honestly, but I have no idea how to go about doing this.
That "fighting spirit" allows me to look at VP's in the eye and question motives on things (and get away with it).
I have seen many bully adults.
Physical presence and being reasonably smart about things tends to make them look elsewhere for "prey".
It seems in this society your degree of "threat" is evened out between "brainy" or "physically intimidating" if you have neither, it will not go well for you.
I guess I could agree from this viewpoint on deterrent, I just would not like others of a more genteel nature to have it ripped from them.
Bullying does not generate confidence, it actively serves to undermine it. Once the target of a bully you become so worked up about things such as why you were targeted and what they want from you that you start to believe that it's in fact your fault that you're being bullied; something about you has offended these people - your very existence has offended these people.
You no longer feel confident that the day ahead is going to be fine, because you know it's not; you know you're going to come in day after day, get bullied for existing, and leave. You worry about the bullying instead of worrying about learning; each minute that passes without it is another minute that you're left to stew. There is no confidence being built, here, only guilt and self-loathing.
Stop trying to justify bullying with your pathetic bs excuses.
Avatar 720 wrote: Bullying does not generate confidence, it actively serves to undermine it. Once the target of a bully you become so worked up about things such as why you were targeted and what they want from you that you start to believe that it's in fact your fault that you're being bullied; something about you has offended these people - your very existence has offended these people.
You no longer feel confident that the day ahead is going to be fine, because you know it's not; you know you're going to come in day after day, get bullied for existing, and leave. You worry about the bullying instead of worrying about learning; each minute that passes without it is another minute that you're left to stew. There is no confidence being built, here, only guilt and self-loathing.
Stop trying to justify bullying with your pathetic bs excuses.
You post as if most of the dakka memebers in this thread were not bullied. We are an easy target for bullies, we play and paint man-toys Avatar. We are aware of what it feels like to be bullied. It seemed to have a lasting effect on you that you never channeled into a productive outlet. I'm in no way attempting to come off at mean/hateful. This would be a great discussion if Dakka had a video chat. I'm having trouble explaining myself on a text-based forum outlet.
I justified a moderate level of verbal abuse while becoming an adult to prepare yourself for day to day confrontations. I view it as healthy in low amounts. Excessive cyber bullying I do not condone, nor excessive any type of day to day bullying. A few comments here and there and an occasional sucker punch during a teens years? This is a norm IMHO
Frazzled wrote: Well you could pull a Carrie on your bullies. I'd imagine that would be quite a confidence builder.
Frazzled is honestly my favorite poster on Dakka. The comments/avatar/random images make my day
Excessive cyber bullying I do not condone, nor excessive any type of day to day bullying. A few comments here and there and an occasional sucker punch during a teens years? This is a norm IMHO
What is classified as 'excessive'? Because I'd class ANY sort of bullying as excessive; because it IS. It's not necessary to function in later life whatsoever, therefore it is in excess.
That you can attempt to justify bullying AT ALL highlights one of the most tragic points of society today: the fact that no matter how deplorable the act, there are still people who try to defend it.
To my previous post - a small amount of actual physical bullying is necessary to understand how it is even after high school IMHO
And in my honest opinion, that is absolute bs, and is exactly the sort of misinformed opinion that needs to be eradicated.
Physical bullying between adults is assault or sexual harassment, depending on the nature which it takes.
I can't take Auxellion seriously, look at that avatar and his 'bullying made me great' attitude. There's a person desperate to impress, it comes off as both egotistical and insecure. It's frankly weird on here seeing an avatar that's more often seen in the 'rate me' threads of 4chan. I'm sure bullying did him a lot of good.
I've heard so many people say how silly it is to commit suicide over it but the victim could have any number of anxieties running through their heads at the time they resort to this. Anything could be going through their minds at this point.
I guess what makes it worse is that if your already being bullied in school and then the bullies follow you onto the web, which is commonly used as a refuge for those who have it bad IRL, then it can feel like there is no escape. Or it can start on the internet with some douchebag from school on Facebook only for them to carry the harassment over to real life.
You can't kill a bully, because then that makes you the monster in the eyes of everyone else usually because of the complete ignorance of the situation and victims inner mental state observers usually have, (plus it's illegal obviously, seriously though how nice would it be to just be able to walk up to your bully with a free pass and put one right through the sadistic b******s head? oh if only.....) You can't even stand up to the bully in a lot of cases though, because then in an attempt to re-establish dominance they often treat the victim even worse. So when they finally do follow you onto the internet, the situation can seem truly hopeless to some.
Im glad to see so many Dakkaites actually agree with my that bullying is bull. Y'know what happened when I fought the bully? I got detention and he got an apology from me(forced by teachers) for starting a fight.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Im glad to see so many Dakkaites actually agree with my that bullying is bull. Y'know what happened when I fought the bully? I got detention and he got an apology from me(forced by teachers) for starting a fight.
you don't fight a bully. you ambush him outside of school.
or tell your teacher you heard he was planning something at school...
Howard A Treesong wrote: I can't take Auxellion seriously, look at that avatar and his 'bullying made me great' attitude. There's a person desperate to impress, it comes off as both egotistical and insecure. It's frankly weird on here seeing an avatar that's more often seen in the 'rate me' threads of 4chan. I'm sure bullying did him a lot of good.
Coming from the guy with the scantily clad cartoon chick sucking on something At least he's yoked
To my previous post - a small amount of actual physical bullying is necessary to understand how it is even after high school IMHO
And in my honest opinion, that is absolute bs, and is exactly the sort of misinformed opinion that needs to be eradicated.
Physical bullying between adults is assault or sexual harassment, depending on the nature which it takes.
I can't take Auxellion seriously, look at that avatar and his 'bullying made me great' attitude. There's a person desperate to impress, it comes off as both egotistical and insecure. It's frankly weird on here seeing an avatar that's more often seen in the 'rate me' threads of 4chan. I'm sure bullying did him a lot of good.
I'm known to have absurdly "Douche" avatars on any forum I frequent. All I mentioned was that bullying helped me out a lot in the sense it gave me drive to find an outlet in sports/care less about inconsequential teasing and drama.
"Rate Me" "4chan" "I'm sure bullying did him a lot of good" - If you created something that took you hundreds of hours to achieve, you would flaunt it as well. The US is bad enough with it's 33%+ Obesity rate. Go check out the Dakka Obesity/Weight loss thread around here, some proud individuals for being fit and losing weight. I don't apologize for being one of the handful of physically fit wargamingers here that breaks the nerd fatman stereotype and your "4chan/redddit" level expectations. Again, as I've said - the point I was trying to make would have been x100 easier to make in person.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Im glad to see so many Dakkaites actually agree with my that bullying is bull. Y'know what happened when I fought the bully? I got detention and he got an apology from me(forced by teachers) for starting a fight.
I've had many detentions from simply responding to the bully - a kid harks me on something, I respond verbally - teacher gives me punishment because the teacher was blissfully unaware of what was occurring.
The problem isn't that you're fit, Auxellion. The problem is that your avatar is the stereotypical Jersey Shore d-bag "Super Manly Man FB Selfie" kind that makes people more likely to interpret what you're saying as pro-bullying, whether it actually is or not...
Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote: The problem isn't that you're fit, Auxellion. The problem is that your avatar is the stereotypical Jersey Shore d-bag "Super Manly Man FB Selfie" kind that makes people more likely to interpret what you're saying as pro-bullying, whether it actually is or not...
~Tim?
I actually changed my avatar to this mid thread to come off as Barbarian as possible if you check the quotes of the original post
If I had an MLP avatar would the reaction be the same? Nope. I would be viewed as another side of the argument - but not as hotly contested on my point. I also made a rushed first post which I do apologize for and tried to argue.
We need more cyber-bullying awareness - in the wargaming community even more so to the young teens/store kids that populate our FLGS. This would be a prime idea for those youtube wargaming stars to take action about and make a few positive videos to shed some light on
People being jerks is a fact of life. I don't advocate it as a necessity for a healthy upbringing, but I imagine most of us stumble across it anyways.
The constant hounding that drives some kids to kill themselves is not something to be glossed over, and while this can represent many failings (parents, teachers, peers, countless others), does not remove or absolve the bullies from culpability for their actions.
Those who are bullied are the victims, and while it is commendable that some people grow in the face of that adversity, some do not, and the bullies are the ones toying with another person's life for their own sick thrills, or because it makes their balls/ovaries feel big, or whatever the cause.
Ignoring your avatar, the earlier 'PUA' style bull about 'refining a beta' or whatever was crass and offensively dismissive of an issue that, again, victims are choosing to kill themselves over rather than face for another day. You later walked that back to state that you condemn such coarse treatment, but adopting an intentional 'douchey' avatar and making some statement that were wholly lacking in empathy are (imo) likely why you've gotten a lot of pushback here.
Would it be different if you had a MLP avatar?
Not to me. Adopting that facade didn't help, but I find your statements (the earlier ones at least) reprehensible regardless of the 'face' you choose to show them with.
Forar wrote: People being jerks is a fact of life. I don't advocate it as a necessity for a healthy upbringing, but I imagine most of us stumble across it anyways.
The constant hounding that drives some kids to kill themselves is not something to be glossed over, and while this can represent many failings (parents, teachers, peers, countless others), does not remove or absolve the bullies from culpability for their actions.
Those who are bullied are the victims, and while it is commendable that some people grow in the face of that adversity, some do not, and the bullies are the ones toying with another person's life for their own sick thrills, or because it makes their balls/ovaries feel big, or whatever the cause.
Ignoring your avatar, the earlier 'PUA' style bull about 'refining a beta' or whatever was crass and offensively dismissive of an issue that, again, victims are choosing to kill themselves over rather than face for another day. You later walked that back to state that you condemn such coarse treatment, but adopting an intentional 'douchey' avatar and making some statement that were wholly lacking in empathy are (imo) likely why you've gotten a lot of pushback here.
Would it be different if you had a MLP avatar?
Not to me. Adopting that facade didn't help, but I find your statements (the earlier ones at least) reprehensible regardless of the 'face' you choose to show them with.
PUA? I had to google that. Creepy set of people from what I'm reading. I have no idea what they have to do with this. I adopted a "Facade" aka a Photo of myself to rustle Dakka in an argument. You have a Gundun Wing Mechwarrior as an Avatar. It worked.
Unless your serving in the military/having your country bombed - Weak people commit suicide because a bully decided to make them have a bad day. Cyber bullying? An even weaker person. This is obviously important why we should help and spread awareness. Leaving this thread on a bad note, take it up in PMs/Skype @alfndrate
Auxellion wrote: Leaving this thread on a bad note, take it up in PMs/Skype @alfndrate
I refuse
As to Cyber Bullying, screenshot software is a great way to garner proof of someone bullying you. I have a few screen shots when things got heated with Dakka Mods in case I needed to back up evidence of something that was said to me and could have easily been edited/deleted.
Also calling someone that has been bullied a weak person and someone that has been cyber bullied a weaker person seems to be reflecting more of your character than someone might care to reveal on an anonymous internet forum.
The reason why cyber bulling is the issue that it is, is because Cyber bulling is 24/7. When I got called names at school for being overweight or for not shaving, or for the week where I was the smelly kid (damn you puberty!), I could go home, unwind, and mentally prepare myself for the fethwads I went to school with. I receive a lot of verbal bullying as a kid, now I tend to be sarcastic dick in real life because that was how I coped with the words that were being said to me and about me. If what I went through in middle school were happening today, I would have to endure people making pig calling sounds out of my last name, calling me fat, tubby, overweight, slow, have people knock books out of my hands, and taking unflattering photos of me on their camera phones and posting them around school via text, fb, and tweet (like a picture that exists of me curled around a toilet at a college party). I would have to deal with that from 8 in the morning until 3 in the afternoon. Then I would have to go home and deal with the fact that people are continuing to do that sort of thing while I'm not near them.
Instead of just dealing with it during school it becomes a 24/7 hell that you rarely escape from if you don't learn how to cope. I coped because I had had friends that didn't go to my school so in the evenings and weekends I could hang out with them and unwind from the d-bags I went to school with. I became more social through boy scouts and acting and as I entered into high school. All of my bullying issues stopped once I went to public schooling because everyone was different enough that the only people that were jerks were some of the athletes, and even then most of them were okay dudes once you got them away from the jocks.
I'd fething hate do go through the limited bullying I went through in today's world. Kill myself? Probably not, but I'd probably be a lot more violent.
Auxellion wrote: PUA? I had to google that. Creepy set of people from what I'm reading. I have no idea what they have to do with this. I adopted a "Facade" aka a Photo of myself to rustle Dakka in an argument. You have a Gundun Wing Mechwarrior as an Avatar. It worked.
Ah, so you were trolling.
Also, I noted that your choice of avatar didn't bother me in the least. Your lack of empathy caught my eye, and apparently it wasn't even something you believe, so statements made in bad faith.
So we've established that you were trolling and intentionally misrepresenting yourself for attention.
Tell me more about how bullying helped make you the man you are today. :-D
Unless your serving in the military/having your country bombed - Weak people commit suicide because a bully decided to make them have a bad day. Cyber bullying? An even weaker person. This is obviously important why we should help and spread awareness. Leaving this thread on a bad note, take it up in PMs/Skype @alfndrate
Also, apparently I called it on being a reprehensible person.
Good to see we're clear on the matter.
The more Aux posts in this thread, the more I'm thinking he was less 'bullied' and more 'a bully' trying to justify his actions in the past.
"Rate Me" "4chan" "I'm sure bullying did him a lot of good" - If you created something that took you hundreds of hours to achieve, you would flaunt it as well. The US is bad enough with it's 33%+ Obesity rate. Go check out the Dakka Obesity/Weight loss thread around here, some proud individuals for being fit and losing weight. I don't apologize for being one of the handful of physically fit wargamingers here that breaks the nerd fatman stereotype and your "4chan/redddit" level expectations. Again, as I've said - the point I was trying to make would have been x100 easier to make in person.
And by trying to break one stereotype you became another. The guy who thinks thats EVERYone should be just as fit as him and that can fight his way out of things.
Douche avatar to match douche attitudes that revolve around 'betas' and 'weak individuals'. Forar is right, he sounds less the bullied and more the egotistical bully, who needs to flash his muscles as soon as provoked. Fortunately I don't need to meet 'in person' to make my points clear.
Howard A Treesong wrote: Douche avatar to match douche attitudes that revolve around 'betas' and 'weak individuals'. Forar is right, he sounds less the bullied and more the egotistical bully, who needs to flash his muscles as soon as provoked. Fortunately I don't need to meet 'in person' to make my points clear.
You read things other than his first post, correct? He explains himself pretty well.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also just because you disagree with his opinion doesn't mean you can call him a douche. That's a bit like bullying, no?
Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote: [Also just because you disagree with his opinion doesn't mean you can call him a douche. That's a bit like bullying, no?
The rank hypocrisy in these threads is what makes me read them.
As soon as there's blood in the water people can't wait to get a piece! Not to say the "victim" in this case isn't provoking them, but since we're all about blaming the victim I'm sure he understands.
Howard A Treesong wrote: Douche avatar to match douche attitudes that revolve around 'betas' and 'weak individuals'. Forar is right, he sounds less the bullied and more the egotistical bully, who needs to flash his muscles as soon as provoked. Fortunately I don't need to meet 'in person' to make my points clear.
You read things other than his first post, correct? He explains himself pretty well.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also just because you disagree with his opinion doesn't mean you can call him a douche. That's a bit like bullying, no?
Is it bullying if it's a single comment? I was led to believe that bullying is the constant and unrelenting comments and actions against a person.
There is the point the OP is making that facing that adversity made him stronger, good for him.
Even better if it was not at the expense of others.
I know from personal experience a victim or weak person can be made.
Taking positive steps as the OP was alluding to, can make a strong person as well, also something from personal experience.
The trick is to find the "breathing space" to get your head in order. Bullies want you to feel helpless and hopeless, they pound that into you any chance they get.
I find it so funny the "alpha" and "beta" language is used:
Some people desperately want to lead, to get people to do things for them: does that not make them dependent? A need to control others because they are nothing without their pawns.
What if you do not "need" anyone, To be happy to do what you want and learn what you need and would be more than happy to tell them to take a hike? That is the best out for those who have had their relationships abused.
I can see the need for things like the women's shelters, that time to think and get the information you need to get control in your life. Too bad there are none (I know of) for men or children to take a breather and come up with a plan to control your life.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Im glad to see so many Dakkaites actually agree with my that bullying is bull. Y'know what happened when I fought the bully? I got detention and he got an apology from me(forced by teachers) for starting a fight.
you don't fight a bully. you ambush him outside of school.
or tell your teacher you heard he was planning something at school...
This one. In this day and age, I'd imagine all you would need to do is indicate to the nearest teacher or police officer that Johnny Bully was making gang signs or perhaps holding his hand like a gun, menacingly pointing it at people as if marking them out of a crowd.
No hands get dirty, and what gets done to him is far more than anything you could ever possibly do to him.
Monster Rain wrote: The rank hypocrisy in these threads is what makes me read them.
As soon as there's blood in the water people can't wait to get a piece! Not to say the "victim" in this case isn't provoking them, but since we're all about blaming the victim I'm sure he understands.
Telling someone that they are being heartless, crass and ignorant is not "hypocrisy" when that person is showing a truly remarkable lack of empathy and disregard for innocent victims.
The amazing part is how said poster takes pride in not fitting into a 'gaming nerd stereotype' (being overweight) while simply drowning in another (being particularly self centered and unable to empathize with the plight of others).
When kids are killing themselves over harassment, 'suck it up' is not helpful advice.
Lack of empathy is the first and major sign of narcissism.
That is a type of person where their entire method is victimization.
I save my antisocial tendencies for these folk.
Suicide is to feel so much emotional pain that living is hard and then when there is no end in sight you are left with despair.
I like to address root cause, there is some miserable person coordinating this aggression to the victim.
"Insecure" kids trying to look big at the expense of others can be dealt with reasonably. I gave a few choice "comebacks" to my kids and he left them alone well enough (I wish it was always that easy).
An honest to goodness narcissist requires a whole different intervention. You either remove yourself as a source of narcissistic supply: ignore them, or just be unavailable. They are pretty persistent though. The only other method then is to be more scary than them. Hard to do and still be an ethical person. Sometimes takes the parent as advocate to campaign for a fix.
Forar wrote: The amazing part is how said poster takes pride in not fitting into a 'gaming nerd stereotype' (being overweight) while simply drowning in another (being particularly self centered and unable to empathize with the plight of others).
To be fair, I've always thought of the latter as an 'typical American' stereotype, not a 'gaming nerd stereotype'.
When kids are killing themselves over harassment, 'suck it up' is not helpful advice.
I think that it takes more than just bullying alone to drive someone to the point of killing themselves, though I say that as someone who was to the point of killing himself, but not because of bullying.
Totally could see it being a catalyst, but my point is that getting rid of the bullying still leaves someone capable of killing themselves semi-stably waiting for the next crappy event to come along. The huge anti-bullying movement is treating a trigger for a disease, rather than treating the disease itself.
Giving people, kids in particular, the emotional and intellectual resources to lead happy and productive lives is something that we're working on as a society, if not a species.
Bullies harassing people past the breaking point is something that isn't easily dealt with either, but until we understand the scope of the root problems in general (which will likely require advances in science and medicine beyond our imagining), dealing with bullying and harassment may have to act as a stop gap measure.
I'm not sure I agree with calling "being willing and able to end ones suffering" a disease, but my understanding of psychiatric medicine isn't strong enough to debate directly.
I will say, however, that given that it is a time sensitive issue (as in, people are likely contemplating killing themselves over the matter this very minute, somewhere in the world), attending to the triggers may have to suffice while we make those greater advances. It's less important that we haven't unlocked the mysteries of the mind, and more that we want little Billy and Jane to put down the razor blades/bottles/firearms.
Things like the It Gets Better project are helpful, not just for the LGBT community, but society as a whole. It DOES get better, for the vast majority of us at least (though we can omit that last part, it's not very uplifting, even if it's true).
Suicide is scary just for the act and what is needed to do it:
"Murder" of self.
If the person feels that plain miserable that they are willing to end it, what is the worth of other people's lives to them?
I agree there must be more to it than the bullying because if someone gets into a bad enough place: why are there not a whole bunch of "bullies" killed by their victims? They become too afraid of "what if I fail?
Cyber bullying can allow some ability to hide who you are so the threat of repercussions is that much less so you could feel less inhibited and flame away. Seems in most of these cases the people were known to the victim so I really am confused on why they get away with these things.
Dakkadakka manages it (mostly), so what is going on here that doesn't happen elsewhere?
Perhaps that we aren't actually a social network site, or a site where people can be easily identified?
I don't doubt that it happens on sites that aren't social networking ones, or sites where someone has displayed their true self, but we haven't experienced cyber bullying (that we know about; once again, if anyone IS being bullied by another user on this site, please don't suffer in silence) because we don't make it clear who we are.
If someone who was being cyber bullied elsewhere was revealed to have an account here, then bullies may very well come here to torment them, but Dakka is nowhere near the first port of call for such miscreants, and as such avoids most of the trouble by combining that fact with us being a closer community than most.
I think it helps that we have a good moderating team as well.
I had a bully in high school who harassed me from 6th to 8th grade and I did/said nothing because I was afraid to get in trouble. I had another bully in college (yes, it happens) and he pushed me too far and I picked him up and smashed him on the floor onto his kneecaps. He ended up in the hospital and on crutches for a week and I didn't get in an ounce of trouble. He was 130 lbs at most, I was 165 and pissed. Rage is a nice strength enhancer.
Remember folks, bullying doesn't only come from big, tough thugs. Little guys can do it too, they're just not physically violent about it.
Also, I don't condone my own actions: I should have been expelled for it, and I'm lucky I wasn't. I informed the Resident Director that I needed to be moved or I'd injure him worse, she already hated him (he had a bad rep) and he didn't press charges. I got off lucky.
I expect disbelief or "cool story, bro". Neither response changes facts.
LordofHats wrote: Its almost like kids never committed suicide before the internet.
Yes indeed. All advances ever are crap because cavemen.
My point is rather than I'm confused as to while internet bullying has received such an enthusiastic opposition while other kinds of bullying get ignored. I've seen people be rampantly paranoid about the internet while not paying attention to their kid getting harassed by the local douche group at the street corner ever weekday morning.
Bullying isn't new and neither are kids committing suicide because of bullying. People who didn't grow up with the internet then throw up their arms and cry foul because to them it is bizarre but they happily turn blind eyes to bullying on public streets and in schools because to them such things are normal. I don't see people getting this kind of reaction because they bullied someone who killed themselves in real life (hell that sort of thing never even gets into the news much these days), but be sure no one kills themselves because you were terrible to them on the internet, that's where your really screwed.
EDIT: This is not to say one form of bullying is better or worse or that because one gets less attention the other should get less. Rather I'm confused by the double standard, where somehow being vicious to someone across a computer screen creates a more powerful reaction in people than the everyday viciousness that happens in person everywhere.
LordofHats wrote: Its almost like kids never committed suicide before the internet.
Yes indeed. All advances ever are crap because cavemen.
My point is rather than I'm confused as to while internet bullying has received such an enthusiastic opposition while other kinds of bullying get ignored. I've seen people be rampantly paranoid about the internet while not paying attention to their kid getting harassed by the local douche group at the street corner ever weekday morning.
If you put "cyber-" in front of something, it becomes a new, terrifying, and important issue.
I'm hardly impartial to the issue so it wouldn't shock me if I just have a bad perception of it, but from my own view I see cyber bullying getting much more attention and focus from people than good old fashion bullying. I.E. "Cyber-bullying is terrible! Criminalize it! Arrest those people! But don't worry little Johnny. Those boys who pick on you at school will go away. You'll grow out of it."
LordofHats wrote: Its almost like kids never committed suicide before the internet.
Yes indeed. All advances ever are crap because cavemen.
My point is rather than I'm confused as to while internet bullying has received such an enthusiastic opposition while other kinds of bullying get ignored. I've seen people be rampantly paranoid about the internet while not paying attention to their kid getting harassed by the local douche group at the street corner ever weekday morning.
If you put "cyber-" in front of something, it becomes a new, terrifying, and important issue.
Part of the thing is, if I was 15 years younger and afraid of bullies, I wouldn't be afraid of the ones who were calling me names online. I'd be afraid of the ones who are intending on beating the gak out of me halfway between school and home as I walk home. That's one of the reasons why I have a hard time taking the online nonsense seriously, because it's not real. You can escape the nasty words being said about you by turning off the power switch. You can't escape the people calling you names and threatening you in the locker room or on the bus.
"Cyber" bullying is a good target for attention though, because people can become self-righteous about it and throw a massive fit about it, and then make it the responsibility of Facebook et. al. to actually worry about fixing yet another societal issue through a show of legislature and technology.
Meanwhile, Jimmy is still coming home with a bloody nose and black eye, but fixing that requires confrontation, vigilance, and effort of parents and state employees, not technology.
Look, it's awesome that many people here were both bullied and proved to be paragons of inner strength, but minimizing the suffering of others is undignified. Doubly so from those who admit to having been bullied themselves.
Maybe they get it online and offline alike.
Maybe they have issues of their own and the bullying is simply the final straw.
Maybe any of a million possible reasons, extenuating circumstances or explanations.
Not all suffering is equal. Not all people withstand hardship (even the exact same hardship) identically. Some of the things you (some posters in this thread disbelieving 'cyber-bullying' can be harmful) suffered through the years might have been a cake walk for some of these kids. Some of the things they've suffered through the years might've put you or me on the same path.
Some posts here have an insidious undercurrent of victim blaming, very similar to an well documented issue with rape victims; people believe that they are good, intelligent, aware and otherwise capable, and that they will outwit, outrun or outfight an assailant, thus someone who was victimized must have been deficient in some manner.
This kind of ostracism isn't helpful. In fact, it's often harmful, as it build an unwritten code that only the weak are victimized, and thus those being victimized, in an effort to avoid appearing weak or admitting weakness don't speak up.
There's no simple solution, but surely a community that has its share of bullied members (past and present alike, given the demographics I'm sure there's some dakka members being bullied now, if not literally this second) can reflect that perhaps some empathy is in order. That it should not surprise anyone that those who feel threatened and powerless in real life might engage in an escapist hobby, and further recognize that, whether they're vocal in this thread or simply watching, a little solidarity between dakka'ites (dakkadians? Dakkii? Daks?) could go a long way.
I mean, it's not likely we're changing someone's life here.
daedalus wrote: You can escape the nasty words being said about you by turning off the power switch.
Actually, no, you can't. Just because you don't see them doesn't mean they're not there to be seen by everyone you know. That's the big problem with cyber-bullying. Traditional bullying is usually targetted: it's face-to-face, and rarely goes beyond a small circle of people. Cyber-bullying has no limit to where it can reach and how many people can get involved. Again, it's one thing for a bully to get an embarrassing picture of you and post on the bulletin board at school to be seen only by your classmates. It's another for the picture to be shared online to not only your classmates, but to everyone in town, your friends, your family, and to be saved in the Internet forever for all to see in the years to come. Cyber-bullying does not go away, it is shared, saved, and archived for eternity.
daedalus wrote: You can escape the nasty words being said about you by turning off the power switch.
Actually, no, you can't. Just because you don't see them doesn't mean they're not there to be seen by everyone you know. That's the big problem with cyber-bullying. Traditional bullying is usually targetted: it's face-to-face, and rarely goes beyond a small circle of people. Cyber-bullying has no limit to where it can reach and how many people can get involved. Again, it's one thing for a bully to get an embarrassing picture of you and post on the bulletin board at school to be seen only by your classmates. It's another for the picture to be shared online to not only your classmates, but to everyone in town, your friends, your family, and to be saved in the Internet forever for all to see in the years to come. Cyber-bullying does not go away, it is shared, saved, and archived for eternity.
That sounds like a pretty nasty fear. I agree that sounds pretty terrifying. I've been concerned about the "right to be forgotten" before and made a case for it, but usually it gets met with "if there's a picture of you doing something embarrassing, perhaps you shouldn't have been doing it to begin with".
Part of the strategy to abuse someone is to ostracize them, remove them from support groups, do not let them have friends to show them the way out.
To use a social network to ridicule someone is insidious because the person no longer feel connected to their peers and avoid the very sources of help available to them.
To separate the prey from the herd is just good sense, since a bully would not want to take on a unified front of friends and publicly be beaten up (online or in real life).
It is the nasty private communication while publicly pointing out the victim's flaws "to help them" that is truly evil.
I hope I'm not too late to the party, I just found this thread. I do most my work as a substitute in one of the worse schools in Montréal, and I've been there for four years now. I'm going to fire off a few random thoughts and maybe I did miss a few posts, I'm sorry.
First off, suicide or death shouldn't ever be taken lightly, because we share a bond as human beings that weakens as we give reasons. Each situation is unique and thinking that someone committed suicide because they are weak is rarely the right answer, and rarely leads to solutions.
Second, loved the Feckwad Theory image, because it does encapsulate the situation, if only very loosely. I remember having at most 30 "friends" in most of my school years, with only 3 to 5 real friends, and it's not ever far from that number, close to 20 years later. Our teenagers today have devices that connect them, potentially forever, to hundreds of individuals. That is a major audience and that many more chances that conflicts of opinion or attitude will arise.
We are at a weird point in time, because the internet is the frontier, and laws don't fit well on a frontier. It's messy, it's inconvenient, and it doesn't apply to those in power. Unless they lose a close relative. The case of miss Parsons is tragic because they did go to the police and nothing was done.
I'm generally a very gentle individual, but someone who takes liberties with another individual's well-being like such bullying cases demonstrate make me want to fly off the handle. And teaching them about it just turns it into a circus. I'm always tempted to think that it didn't happen as bad as that "back in my days" but I'm skeptical of my own recollection, and I know the fear of my father's hard slap might have had something to do with me being such a meek person growing up. But my kids get pounded on by their family quite enough that I don't quite think that it's the answer.
And when threatened with violence, or beat up, it's hard not to naturally respond and for some reason, the instigator or bully often gets off the hook more than not, at least in my school.
whembly wrote: Bah... just say, "Zero feths Given" and move on.
So your suggestion is that we go with "kids who are killing themselves due to bullying, online and offline alike: suck it up"?
Just want to be clear here.
"Suck it up" is vastly different than having a "Zero feths Given" mentality.
By far, most bullies are either expression of narcissism and/or getting a response out of the target. Having a Zero feths Given mentality when dealing with bullies effectively neuters them because they don't get what the want.
daedalus wrote: You can escape the nasty words being said about you by turning off the power switch.
Actually, no, you can't. Just because you don't see them doesn't mean they're not there to be seen by everyone you know. That's the big problem with cyber-bullying. Traditional bullying is usually targetted: it's face-to-face, and rarely goes beyond a small circle of people. Cyber-bullying has no limit to where it can reach and how many people can get involved. Again, it's one thing for a bully to get an embarrassing picture of you and post on the bulletin board at school to be seen only by your classmates. It's another for the picture to be shared online to not only your classmates, but to everyone in town, your friends, your family, and to be saved in the Internet forever for all to see in the years to come. Cyber-bullying does not go away, it is shared, saved, and archived for eternity.
Zero feths given is cold comfort when you're on serum because the bully couldn't stand you ignoring him and decided he would finally enforce his threats of breaking your arms.
And since he's a minor, he'll get away with a slap on the wrist. The drug dealers' enforcer in my school was wee-high and wiry, so he would constantly get away with sending other kids to the hospital on account that adults couldn't believe he was a violent individual.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Zero feths given is cold comfort when you're on serum because the bully couldn't stand you ignoring him and decided he would finally enforce his threats of breaking your arms.
And since he's a minor, he'll get away with a slap on the wrist. The drug dealers' enforcer in my school was wee-high and wiry, so he would constantly get away with sending other kids to the hospital on account that adults couldn't believe he was a violent individual.
It is cold comfort... but, it's reality.
Look, I've been bullied growing up, so I *do* have some perspective here.
The harsh reality is there are some people who are fethwads who feels necessary to bully someone. The quicker ya'll come to this realization, the quicker you can deal with it. Even in the end, there may be nothing you can do about it.... but that doesn't mean you should ever give up.
Zero feths Givens... let that sink in a bit. Its a mindset. (also great in the dating field too!)
If you kill yourself because people said mean things to you on the internet, than feth you.
I've experienced really bullying. Those people should go tell concentration camp survivors how similar their experience was to receiving dumb comments in their Youtube videos.
Anyone who commits suicide because of bullying, feth you. I went through serious gak for years, and then I read about these rich, White, entitled fethers who kill themselves because they got made fun of for a month.
Not to mention that people who get "cyberbullied" are most often willingly putting themselves into positions to be cyberbullied. If someone is writing harassing comments on your Youtube videos, than stop reviewing the comments.
Everyone gets bullied. If you commit suicide because you're too good for sth that everyone goes through, than feth you.
While these spoiled, rich, entitled, White kids are committing suicide because people said mean things to them several hundred kids just died because they don't have clean water.
I have been though gak these rich entitled kids can't imagine, and I have never, not even once thought about suicide.
Maybe it comes from my line of work or my personality, but I can't even imagine not caring about that kind of issue.
"Ah well, I've been raped. Let's go for a latte."
"Yum, that hospital food really is delicious. At least there is a nurse to feed me while both of my broken arms mend."
Remember that what you see as "nothing" and "inconsequential" from your point of view might *gasp* be important to someone else. And we're talking about a stage in life when so many things change, our self-image is undergoing radical transformation, we are asked to make obscure choices that will follow us for the rest of our lives and they are truly bombarded with a lot of information.
If you are so high and mighty that you could navigate it all successfully without a hitch, kudos. But that is a reflection of your strength, not of their weakness, because your situation was and is not theirs.
Suicides will always happen, and they are the result of many, many factors acting on an individual. Once we stop caring about our felow man, though, I fear.
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: If you kill yourself because people said mean things to you on the internet, than feth you.
I've experienced really bullying. Those people should go tell concentration camp survivors how similar their experience was to receiving dumb comments in their Youtube videos.
Anyone who commits suicide because of bullying, feth you. I went through serious gak for years, and then I read about these rich, White, entitled fethers who kill themselves because they got made fun of for a month.
Not to mention that people who get "cyberbullied" are most often willingly putting themselves into positions to be cyberbullied. If someone is writing harassing comments on your Youtube videos, than stop reviewing the comments.
Everyone gets bullied. If you commit suicide because you're too good for sth that everyone goes through, than feth you.
While these spoiled, rich, entitled, White kids are committing suicide because people said mean things to them several hundred kids just died because they don't have clean water.
I have been though gak these rich entitled kids can't imagine, and I have never, not even once thought about suicide.
]
You are a fool.
The amount of ignorance in this post is just astounding, spoiled rich kids? Concentration camps? Blood hell you really need to get a grip and realise that you cannot just generalize all claims of cyber bullying to the camp of those without thick skin.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Maybe it comes from my line of work or my personality, but I can't even imagine not caring about that kind of issue.
"Ah well, I've been raped. Let's go for a latte."
"Yum, that hospital food really is delicious. At least there is a nurse to feed me while both of my broken arms mend."
Remember that what you see as "nothing" and "inconsequential" from your point of view might *gasp* be important to someone else. And we're talking about a stage in life when so many things change, our self-image is undergoing radical transformation, we are asked to make obscure choices that will follow us for the rest of our lives and they are truly bombarded with a lot of information.
If you are so high and mighty that you could navigate it all successfully without a hitch, kudos. But that is a reflection of your strength, not of their weakness, because your situation was and is not theirs.
Suicides will always happen, and they are the result of many, many factors acting on an individual. Once we stop caring about our felow man, though, I fear.
Please don't construe my stance on this as not caring.
There's nothing "high and mighty" in surviving these ordeal. It's about teaching our fellow man/woman that there is ALWAYS a better way.
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: I have been though gak these rich entitled kids can't imagine, and I have never, not even once thought about suicide.
What sort of gak? Please enlighten us, I spent 6 years having my last name used as a pig calling sound, I was pushed, shoved, hit, I've eaten dog gak. All of these are things that "rich, White, entitled kids" can imagine. What combat zone did you go through to get through school?
Seriously, you spout some ignorant gak and most of the time it's hilarious to read... This though... this takes the cake.
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: If you kill yourself because people said mean things to you on the internet, than feth you.
I've experienced really bullying. Those people should go tell concentration camp survivors how similar their experience was to receiving dumb comments in their Youtube videos.
Anyone who commits suicide because of bullying, feth you. I went through serious gak for years, and then I read about these rich, White, entitled fethers who kill themselves because they got made fun of for a month.
Not to mention that people who get "cyberbullied" are most often willingly putting themselves into positions to be cyberbullied. If someone is writing harassing comments on your Youtube videos, than stop reviewing the comments.
Everyone gets bullied. If you commit suicide because you're too good for sth that everyone goes through, than feth you.
While these spoiled, rich, entitled, White kids are committing suicide because people said mean things to them several hundred kids just died because they don't have clean water.
I have been though gak these rich entitled kids can't imagine, and I have never, not even once thought about suicide.
]
You are a fool.
The amount of ignorance in this post is just astounding, spoiled rich kids? Concentration camps? Blood hell you really need to get a grip and realise that you cannot just generalize all claims of cyber bullying to the camp of those without thick skin.
Everyone in America is rich compared to the people in impoverished nations. Secondly, a lot of those kids you hear about are middle class.
Secondly, when it come to cyberbullying, you can look away from the damned screen. It's not like bullying where people are coming up to you and being donkeycaves.
And besides, if someone bullys you, turn it on them. Make a website about them with any racist, homophobic, or ableist harassment that they used against you for the people at their colleges' admissions offices to find. They won't get into college or any company that does background checks.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
daedalus wrote: You just gotta ignore the good Inquisitor. He's our resident "make it about the Nazis" troll.
I barely mentioned Nazis. You demonstrate that you have a P300 brainwave at the slightest mention of Nazis, demonstrating a strange obsession with the subject. Secondly, your cyberbullying here reveals that you think that the Holocaust is a joke.
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: I barely mentioned Nazis. You demonstrate that you have a P300 brainwave at the slightest mention of Nazis, demonstrating a strange obsession with the subject. Secondly, your cyberbullying here reveals that you think that the Holocaust is a joke.
Can you explain how you came to the conclusion that d-usa finds the Holocaust amusing?
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: I have been though gak these rich entitled kids can't imagine, and I have never, not even once thought about suicide.
What sort of gak? Please enlighten us, I spent 6 years having my last name used as a pig calling sound, I was pushed, shoved, hit, I've eaten dog gak. All of these are things that "rich, White, entitled kids" can imagine. What combat zone did you go through to get through school?
Seriously, you spout some ignorant gak and most of the time it's hilarious to read... This though... this takes the cake.
Stuff generally worse than that. And I still have triggers that I've had to understand and manage not to be filled with hate every time it comes up.
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: I barely mentioned Nazis. You demonstrate that you have a P300 brainwave at the slightest mention of Nazis, demonstrating a strange obsession with the subject. Secondly, your cyberbullying here reveals that you think that the Holocaust is a joke.
Can you explain how you came to the conclusion that d-usa finds the Holocaust amusing?
Rather than address any of the other many points, he chooses to focus on the Nazis and make jokes about it, even though plenty of other topics of discussion were mentioned.
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: If you kill yourself because people said mean things to you on the internet, than feth you.
I've experienced really bullying. Those people should go tell concentration camp survivors how similar their experience was to receiving dumb comments in their Youtube videos.
Anyone who commits suicide because of bullying, feth you. I went through serious gak for years, and then I read about these rich, White, entitled fethers who kill themselves because they got made fun of for a month.
Not to mention that people who get "cyberbullied" are most often willingly putting themselves into positions to be cyberbullied. If someone is writing harassing comments on your Youtube videos, than stop reviewing the comments.
Everyone gets bullied. If you commit suicide because you're too good for sth that everyone goes through, than feth you.
While these spoiled, rich, entitled, White kids are committing suicide because people said mean things to them several hundred kids just died because they don't have clean water.
I have been though gak these rich entitled kids can't imagine, and I have never, not even once thought about suicide.
]
You are a fool.
The amount of ignorance in this post is just astounding, spoiled rich kids? Concentration camps? Blood hell you really need to get a grip and realise that you cannot just generalize all claims of cyber bullying to the camp of those without thick skin.
Everyone in America is rich compared to the people in impoverished nations. Secondly, a lot of those kids you hear about are middle class.
How does that make this any less horrible? Stop trying to compare the claims of those being cyberbullied to cases of people unable to impoverished nations. Also, there are numerous claims (and suicides of people from outside the US.
Secondly, when it come to cyberbullying, you can look away from the damned screen. It's not like bullying where people are coming up to you and being donkeycaves.
When it's coming from your school, and when the bullying begins there, you cannot turn away from the screen.
And besides, if someone bullys you, turn it on them. Make a website about them with any racist, homophobic, or ableist harassment that they used against you for the people at their colleges' admissions offices to find. They won't get into college or any company that does background checks.
How's that gonna solve the problem? That's probably just gonna escalate it.
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: I barely mentioned Nazis. You demonstrate that you have a P300 brainwave at the slightest mention of Nazis, demonstrating a strange obsession with the subject. Secondly, your cyberbullying here reveals that you think that the Holocaust is a joke.
Can you explain how you came to the conclusion that d-usa finds the Holocaust amusing?
Rather than address any of the other many points, he chooses to focus on the Nazis and make jokes about it, even though plenty of other topics of discussion were mentioned.
Then don't try and compare the victims stories to those of holocaust survivors.
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: I have been though gak these rich entitled kids can't imagine, and I have never, not even once thought about suicide.
What sort of gak? Please enlighten us, I spent 6 years having my last name used as a pig calling sound, I was pushed, shoved, hit, I've eaten dog gak. All of these are things that "rich, White, entitled kids" can imagine. What combat zone did you go through to get through school?
Seriously, you spout some ignorant gak and most of the time it's hilarious to read... This though... this takes the cake.
Stuff generally worse than that. And I still have triggers that I've had to understand and manage not to be filled with hate every time it comes up.
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: I barely mentioned Nazis. You demonstrate that you have a P300 brainwave at the slightest mention of Nazis, demonstrating a strange obsession with the subject. Secondly, your cyberbullying here reveals that you think that the Holocaust is a joke.
Can you explain how you came to the conclusion that d-usa finds the Holocaust amusing?
Rather than address any of the other many points, he chooses to focus on the Nazis and make jokes about it, even though plenty of other topics of discussion were mentioned.
I think the main point of the discussion right now is. How entitled and crazy are you? I'm pretty sure you aren't living in Africa yet you somehow get up on your high horse because people there are dying. Have you ever heard about incomparable situations? You are so ignorant it hurts.
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: I have been though gak these rich entitled kids can't imagine, and I have never, not even once thought about suicide.
What sort of gak? Please enlighten us, I spent 6 years having my last name used as a pig calling sound, I was pushed, shoved, hit, I've eaten dog gak. All of these are things that "rich, White, entitled kids" can imagine. What combat zone did you go through to get through school?
Seriously, you spout some ignorant gak and most of the time it's hilarious to read... This though... this takes the cake.
Stuff generally worse than that. And I still have triggers that I've had to understand and manage not to be filled with hate every time it comes up.
Broken bones, name calling, dropping pig's blood on you at the school dance after you had a falling out with your overbearing mother? Did this unleash your psychic powers and cause you to go on a murderous rampage of psychic torment because some girls couldn't leave well enough alone?
Also about the holocaust stuff, you always bring this stuff up in threads, we are simply reacting to it... D-usa isn't making light of the event, he's making light of the fact that you compare nearly everything to the actions of Germany during WW2
Nah Godwin's Law is "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."
Ehrenstein's Law would be more like 'As an online discussion grows longer the probability of a comparison involving Nazi's or Hitler is already 1 because Ehrenstein has arrived to save us from our spoiled, rich, white entitled Ivory Towers where we judge all the lesser beings (Texans, The Welsh, The North and Soladrin) and laugh at their petty problems which we don't have because we are relatively better off'
purplefood wrote: Nah Godwin's Law is "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."
Ehrenstein's Law would be more like 'As an online discussion grows longer the probability of a comparison involving Nazi's or Hitler is already 1 because Ehrenstein has arrived to save us from our spoiled, rich, white entitled Ivory Towers where we judge all the lesser beings (Texans, The Welsh, The North and Soladrin) and laugh at their petty problems which we don't have because we are relatively better off'
Alf, while I truly loved the Carrie reference, I only wish you had included "being pelted with feminine hygiene products in the girls' locker room" in the list. Otherwise, outstanding!
purplefood wrote: Nah Godwin's Law is "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."
Ehrenstein's Law would be more like 'As an online discussion grows longer the probability of a comparison involving Nazi's or Hitler is already 1 because Ehrenstein has arrived to save us from our spoiled, rich, white entitled Ivory Towers where we judge all the lesser beings (Texans, The Welsh, The North and Soladrin) and laugh at their petty problems which we don't have because we are relatively better off'
purplefood wrote: Nah Godwin's Law is "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."
Ehrenstein's Law would be more like 'As an online discussion grows longer the probability of a comparison involving Nazi's or Hitler is already 1 because Ehrenstein has arrived to save us from our spoiled, rich, white entitled Ivory Towers where we judge all the lesser beings (Texans, The Welsh, The North and Soladrin) and laugh at their petty problems which we don't have because we are relatively better off'
Monster Rain wrote: Alf, while I truly loved the Carrie reference, I only wish you had included "being pelted with feminine hygiene products in the girls' locker room" in the list. Otherwise, outstanding!
You've never had to deal with those fething things being thrown at you have you? Like a gorram bullet of fluids! Worse than a water balloon. Note: I had tampons of water and glitter thrown at me... also had to clean a restroom where the girls had taped pads and tampons to the walls with ketchup on them... Fething band kids...
purplefood wrote: Nah Godwin's Law is "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."
Ehrenstein's Law would be more like 'As an online discussion grows longer the probability of a comparison involving Nazi's or Hitler is already 1 because Ehrenstein has arrived to save us from our spoiled, rich, white entitled Ivory Towers where we judge all the lesser beings (Texans, The Welsh, The North and Soladrin) and laugh at their petty problems which we don't have because we are relatively better off'
Ehrenstein is reminding me of that part in the movie Anger Management where the guy keeps going on about seeing some gak, and you find out he was in Grenada....... I guess what we've learned here is that you can easily make yourself seem like a credible person to argue how bad things are, just by simply saying " trust me internet, Ive been through the worst"
Right. Sure dude. When I first got into Highschool I was picked on by seniors pretty much daily, because I was lucky/smart enough to have to share some classes with them. I had long hair and was chubby, so guess who was called a girl and fondled nearly daily? Yup. For the first year that was my life. Its fething awesome being told how sweet it would be to be fethed by a group of seniors at the same time because I was so pretty.
So how bout you take your "Trust me, I know" attitude and go feth yourself and your opinions. It doesnt MATTER how "rich" kids are. Some can take it, and some cant. Youre on the same page as any fruit cake from Westboro easily. How dare you compare peoples problems to something like the Holocaust and then say "feth you" simply because their race isnt being wiped out.
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: If you kill yourself because people said mean things to you on the internet, than feth you.
I've experienced really bullying. Those people should go tell concentration camp survivors how similar their experience was to receiving dumb comments in their Youtube videos.
Anyone who commits suicide because of bullying, feth you. I went through serious gak for years, and then I read about these rich, White, entitled fethers who kill themselves because they got made fun of for a month.
Not to mention that people who get "cyberbullied" are most often willingly putting themselves into positions to be cyberbullied. If someone is writing harassing comments on your Youtube videos, than stop reviewing the comments.
Everyone gets bullied. If you commit suicide because you're too good for sth that everyone goes through, than feth you.
While these spoiled, rich, entitled, White kids are committing suicide because people said mean things to them several hundred kids just died because they don't have clean water.
I have been though gak these rich entitled kids can't imagine, and I have never, not even once thought about suicide.
I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the argument that says, "Absolutely horrible things are happening in other places and times, thus it is stupid for you to spend time thinking about the bad things that are happening here and now."
daedalus wrote: I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the argument that says, "Absolutely horrible things are happening in other places and times, thus it is stupid for you to spend time thinking about the bad things that are happening here and now."
I'm sorry about some of the stuff I've said today. About the retaliation for bullying method, I've thought about that a lot, and I've realized frequently that I wouldn't be able to deal with something like that, if I used a method like that, even if everything I said was the truth.
I don't believe that cyberbullying is made up, only that people should count their blessings if their only problems in the world are being made fun of on the internet.
I have an Autistic friend who was cyberbullied by someone from Germany. I know who was responsible.
MrDwhitey wrote: Hey guys, remember when I said you can't reason with crazy?
While we're on the subject of bullying, your gak is triggering.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Purplefood, you're doing it wrong, badkid.
Ehrenstein's Law
Becoming convinced and attempting to prove that anyone who disagrees with you is a Nazi sympathizer. And also a virgin if they exhibit any qualities out of the ordinary. The latter element is a greater quality of Dondrekhan's law.
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: I'm sorry about some of the stuff I've said today. About the retaliation for bullying method, I've thought about that a lot, and I've realized frequently that I wouldn't be able to deal with something like that, if I used a method like that, even if everything I said was the truth.
MrDwhitey wrote: Hey guys, remember when I said you can't reason with crazy?
While we're on the subject of bullying, your gak is triggering.
Why not just turn away from the screen, I thought that was the solution to the problem that you were touting before?
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: I'm sorry about some of the stuff I've said today. About the retaliation for bullying method, I've thought about that a lot, and I've realized frequently that I wouldn't be able to deal with something like that, if I used a method like that, even if everything I said was the truth.
MrDwhitey wrote: Hey guys, remember when I said you can't reason with crazy?
While we're on the subject of bullying, your gak is triggering.
Why not just turn away from the screen, I thought that was the solution to the problem that you were touting before?
I would do that. But of course he believes that it's a serious thing.
Becoming convinced and attempting to prove that anyone who disagrees with you is a Nazi sympathizer. And also a virgin if they exhibit any qualities out of the ordinary. The latter element is a greater quality of Dondrekhan's law.
I don't think you're a Nazi sympathiser. I just think you are obsessed with both the Nazi's and the Soviets. To the point where you can't make an analogy or comparison that isn't related to the Nazi's.
I also don't think you're 40... and I don't care whether you're a virgin or not because it's none of my business; that kind of silliness got old when I was 12. I also don't know or care who Dondrekhan is...
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: I'm sorry about some of the stuff I've said today. About the retaliation for bullying method, I've thought about that a lot, and I've realized frequently that I wouldn't be able to deal with something like that, if I used a method like that, even if everything I said was the truth.
MrDwhitey wrote: Hey guys, remember when I said you can't reason with crazy?
While we're on the subject of bullying, your gak is triggering.
Why not just turn away from the screen, I thought that was the solution to the problem that you were touting before?
I would do that. But of course he believes that it's a serious thing.
Becoming convinced and attempting to prove that anyone who disagrees with you is a Nazi sympathizer. And also a virgin if they exhibit any qualities out of the ordinary. The latter element is a greater quality of Dondrekhan's law.
I don't think you're a Nazi sympathiser. I just think you are obsessed with both the Nazi's and the Soviets. To the point where you can't make an analogy or comparison that isn't related to the Nazi's.
I also don't think you're 40... and I don't care whether you're a virgin or not because it's none of my business; that kind of silliness got old when I was 12. I also don't know or care who Dondrekhan is...
I think you missed the point. I'm calling other people Nazi sympathizers constantly and calling people virgins in a pseudo scientific way. Dondrekhan randomly calls people virgins at random times, such as saying that we shouldn't implement Facebook connect because "I don't think anyone who isn't a virgin is going to do that." It makes me question his experience.
Becoming convinced and attempting to prove that anyone who disagrees with you is a Nazi sympathizer. And also a virgin if they exhibit any qualities out of the ordinary. The latter element is a greater quality of Dondrekhan's law.
I don't think you're a Nazi sympathiser. I just think you are obsessed with both the Nazi's and the Soviets. To the point where you can't make an analogy or comparison that isn't related to the Nazi's.
I also don't think you're 40... and I don't care whether you're a virgin or not because it's none of my business; that kind of silliness got old when I was 12. I also don't know or care who Dondrekhan is...
I think you missed the point. I'm calling other people Nazi sympathizers constantly and calling people virgins in a pseudo scientific way. Dondrekhan randomly calls people virgins at random times, such as saying that we shouldn't implement Facebook connect because "I don't think anyone who isn't a virgin is going to do that." It makes me question his experience.
Uh yeah. ...And would you stop doing that? It really gets up our collective nose.
...And can we not turn this into an discussion about such a childish subject about who is and isn't a virgin? One, I don't that has any bearing at all on a person's mental state, and two, we aren't monkeys throwing our own fecal matter at one another.
Monster Rain wrote: While I agree that this isn't the place for the discussion, I think that a paradigm shift takes place after one first makes sweet, sweet love.
Talizvar wrote: It is logical that "suffering" is relative: someone's end of the world may just be a day in the life for someone else.
It still does not give any good reason to say "Hey, talk about you suffering? You should have seen what I went through!"
Sounds too much like blame the victim or belittle their pain.
I guess I think that "cyber-bullying" is just one element of many for attacking a person and that more is there that they cannot "turn away from".
The idea of "proportional suffering" seems like a fallacy for justifying things like crying over getting an "ugly black iphone." If someone does that, I think we would all feel comfortable telling them to grow up.
I do take cyberbullying seriously. Someone from Germany thought it would be funny to cyberbully Dark Emperor.
Talizvar wrote: It is logical that "suffering" is relative: someone's end of the world may just be a day in the life for someone else.
It still does not give any good reason to say "Hey, talk about you suffering? You should have seen what I went through!"
Sounds too much like blame the victim or belittle their pain.
I guess I think that "cyber-bullying" is just one element of many for attacking a person and that more is there that they cannot "turn away from".
The idea of "proportional suffering" seems like a fallacy for justifying things like crying over getting an "ugly black iphone." If someone does that, I think we would all feel comfortable telling them to grow up.
I do take cyberbullying seriously. Someone from Germany thought it would be funny to cyberbully Dark Emperor.
Who is Dark Emperor? Is this a person that was made fun of once or twice? Did this person in Germany know Dark Emperor personally and in real life? Was Dark Emperor able to escape his tormentor by blocking him from various social media outlets? Your posts are making less sense with every passing thread...
Talizvar wrote: It is logical that "suffering" is relative: someone's end of the world may just be a day in the life for someone else.
It still does not give any good reason to say "Hey, talk about you suffering? You should have seen what I went through!"
Sounds too much like blame the victim or belittle their pain.
I guess I think that "cyber-bullying" is just one element of many for attacking a person and that more is there that they cannot "turn away from".
The idea of "proportional suffering" seems like a fallacy for justifying things like crying over getting an "ugly black iphone." If someone does that, I think we would all feel comfortable telling them to grow up.
I do take cyberbullying seriously. Someone from Germany thought it would be funny to cyberbully Dark Emperor.
Who is Dark Emperor? Is this a person that was made fun of once or twice? Did this person in Germany know Dark Emperor personally and in real life? Was Dark Emperor able to escape his tormentor by blocking him from various social media outlets? Your posts are making less sense with every passing thread...
The Dark Emperor is the user here who wrote terrible fanfiction and whose work was subject to exterminatus at Sturmkrieg for making the worst of Matt Ward look like literature. He does not know the person, but I know who it is. He didn't attack directly. I'm not going to get into it.
d-usa wrote: "I'm bringin up this person, but I'm not going to talk about it..."
Sounds about right.
Thank you, I wasn't sure how to put that into words... It's been... an odd one around here in the OT today... I need a beer, or several.
And this has only been the start of my day, if it carries on like this it could well have been the oddest day in OT for me in a long, long while. At least your ordeal is nearly at an end
Talizvar wrote: It is logical that "suffering" is relative: someone's end of the world may just be a day in the life for someone else.
It still does not give any good reason to say "Hey, talk about you suffering? You should have seen what I went through!"
Sounds too much like blame the victim or belittle their pain.
I guess I think that "cyber-bullying" is just one element of many for attacking a person and that more is there that they cannot "turn away from".
The idea of "proportional suffering" seems like a fallacy for justifying things like crying over getting an "ugly black iphone." If someone does that, I think we would all feel comfortable telling them to grow up.
I do take cyberbullying seriously. Someone from Germany thought it would be funny to cyberbully Dark Emperor.
Just because other people are suffering worse than me doesn't mean my own problems are suddenly irrelevant.
Wait......if you DO think that way, then suddenly your world opens up and becomes so much brighter and vibrant. I think the Inquisitor might be onto something!
KingCracker wrote: Wait......if you DO think that way, then suddenly your world opens up and becomes so much brighter and vibrant. I think the Inquisitor might be onto something!
Now let's all rejoice in our knowledge of us suffering less.
KingCracker wrote: Wait......if you DO think that way, then suddenly your world opens up and becomes so much brighter and vibrant. I think the Inquisitor might be onto something!
Now let's all rejoice in our knowledge of us suffering less.
Monster Rain wrote: While I agree that this isn't the place for the discussion, I think that a paradigm shift takes place after one first makes sweet, sweet love.
I actually very strongly agree. At the same time, I also realize that having one's first time isn't what desperate people think it's going to be and doesn't change any social problems or future potential for . I do think though that it changes subtle aspects of one's appearance or personality that improve overall maturity. This is subject to the Tupee Fallacy just from observation, but virgins tend to have some less mature, younger, or odd quality about them that I can't really describe. Strangeness and effeminacy strike me as being part of it. I have a bit of a radar for detecting oddness in people. It's always based on strangeness I can't easily identify, but when I focus I can usually find specific qualities.
I have a bit of a radar for detecting oddness in people.
Hilarious. You are always entertaining, and that above rambling is a good example of some of your more entertaining, well, rambling. No facts, no justification, just 'they feel different and are associated with these things because I say so'.
I have a bit of a radar for detecting oddness in people.
Hilarious. You are always entertaining, and that above rambling is a good example of some of your more entertaining, well, rambling. No facts, no justification, just 'they feel different and are associated with these things because I say so'.
Yeah, Inquisitor Ehrenstein use to infuriate me but I've gotten so use to his weird behaviour that I just find it amusing now.
I have a bit of a radar for detecting oddness in people.
Hilarious. You are always entertaining, and that above rambling is a good example of some of your more entertaining, well, rambling. No facts, no justification, just 'they feel different and are associated with these things because I say so'.
Yeah, Inquisitor Ehrenstein use to infuriate me but I've gotten so use to his weird behaviour that I just find it amusing now.
Its a definite sine wave I reckon. I went through the initial annoyed stage, found peace, and now I've come full circle back to annoyed.
I have a bit of a radar for detecting oddness in people.
Hilarious. You are always entertaining, and that above rambling is a good example of some of your more entertaining, well, rambling. No facts, no justification, just 'they feel different and are associated with these things because I say so'.
I have actual basis for most of these things, but I'm not going to bore you and waste time going over volumes of accumulated psychological knowledge for a fething forum post.
I have a bit of a radar for detecting oddness in people.
Hilarious. You are always entertaining, and that above rambling is a good example of some of your more entertaining, well, rambling. No facts, no justification, just 'they feel different and are associated with these things because I say so'.
Yeah, Inquisitor Ehrenstein use to infuriate me but I've gotten so use to his weird behaviour that I just find it amusing now.
I have a bit of a radar for detecting oddness in people.
Hilarious. You are always entertaining, and that above rambling is a good example of some of your more entertaining, well, rambling. No facts, no justification, just 'they feel different and are associated with these things because I say so'.
I have actual basis for most of these things, but I'm not going to bore you and waste time going over volumes of accumulated psychological knowledge for a fething forum post.
Just throw out the links to the peer reviewed journal articles then. I'll wait. I don't need you to go over "volumes of accumulated psychological knowledge", I can interpret psychological statistics just fine, I just want you to supply the articles.
Talizvar wrote: It is logical that "suffering" is relative: someone's end of the world may just be a day in the life for someone else.
It still does not give any good reason to say "Hey, talk about you suffering? You should have seen what I went through!"
Sounds too much like blame the victim or belittle their pain.
I guess I think that "cyber-bullying" is just one element of many for attacking a person and that more is there that they cannot "turn away from".
The idea of "proportional suffering" seems like a fallacy for justifying things like crying over getting an "ugly black iphone." If someone does that, I think we would all feel comfortable telling them to grow up.
I do take cyberbullying seriously. Someone from Germany thought it would be funny to cyberbully Dark Emperor.
I had been thinking about this for a while. proportional suffering isn't a fallacy, people have their own issues and deal with them in their own ways. This is why there are so many self-help books, and why the Chicken Soup for the X series is so popular and being sold. There might be a jewish family in a concentration camp fearing for their lives, knowing they may never see freedom, and then there is Alfndrate who owes various banks and federal governments several thousand dollars. Every month I wonder, "will this be the month when I finally go under?" and become unable to make my student loan payments. I live in fear of fething my credit score to nothing in an instant. I live in fear of becoming a burden on my friends and family because of the debt that I'm in, and wondering what I'll look like covered in grime living in a box down by the river. Does the Jewish family's suffering make my own personal suffering and fear any less relevant to me? No, so please stop bringing up this stuff about "first world problems" and how we're "whining" about things that don't matter.
Monster Rain wrote: While I agree that this isn't the place for the discussion, I think that a paradigm shift takes place after one first makes sweet, sweet love.
I actually very strongly agree. At the same time, I also realize that having one's first time isn't what desperate people think it's going to be and doesn't change any social problems or future potential for . I do think though that it changes subtle aspects of one's appearance or personality that improve overall maturity. This is subject to the Tupee Fallacy just from observation, but virgins tend to have some less mature, younger, or odd quality about them that I can't really describe. Strangeness and effeminacy strike me as being part of it. I have a bit of a radar for detecting oddness in people. It's always based on strangeness I can't easily identify, but when I focus I can usually find specific qualities.
That's absolute arse gravy of the highest order.
Actually that entire post is arse gravy of the highest order.
Monster Rain wrote: While I agree that this isn't the place for the discussion, I think that a paradigm shift takes place after one first makes sweet, sweet love.
I actually very strongly agree. At the same time, I also realize that having one's first time isn't what desperate people think it's going to be and doesn't change any social problems or future potential for . I do think though that it changes subtle aspects of one's appearance or personality that improve overall maturity. This is subject to the Tupee Fallacy just from observation, but virgins tend to have some less mature, younger, or odd quality about them that I can't really describe. Strangeness and effeminacy strike me as being part of it. I have a bit of a radar for detecting oddness in people. It's always based on strangeness I can't easily identify, but when I focus I can usually find specific qualities.
That's absolute arse gravy of the highest order.
Actually that entire post is arse gravy of the highest order.
Well, according to internet law we can now assume Ehrenstein is a virgin.
I actually very strongly agree. At the same time, I also realize that having one's first time isn't what desperate people think it's going to be and doesn't change any social problems or future potential for . I do think though that it changes subtle aspects of one's appearance or personality that improve overall maturity. This is subject to the Tupee Fallacy just from observation, but virgins tend to have some less mature, younger, or odd quality about them that I can't really describe. Strangeness and effeminacy strike me as being part of it. I have a bit of a radar for detecting oddness in people. It's always based on strangeness I can't easily identify, but when I focus I can usually find specific qualities.
Words cannot describe how idiotic that sounds. Near complete bull-excrement.
Monster Rain wrote: While I agree that this isn't the place for the discussion, I think that a paradigm shift takes place after one first makes sweet, sweet love.
I actually very strongly agree. At the same time, I also realize that having one's first time isn't what desperate people think it's going to be and doesn't change any social problems or future potential for . I do think though that it changes subtle aspects of one's appearance or personality that improve overall maturity. This is subject to the Tupee Fallacy just from observation, but virgins tend to have some less mature, younger, or odd quality about them that I can't really describe. Strangeness and effeminacy strike me as being part of it. I have a bit of a radar for detecting oddness in people. It's always based on strangeness I can't easily identify, but when I focus I can usually find specific qualities.
That's absolute arse gravy of the highest order.
Actually that entire post is arse gravy of the highest order.
Well, according to internet law we can now assume Ehrenstein is a virgin.
Calling a rape victim of virgin. Do you know what a total piece of that makes you?
Talizvar wrote: It is logical that "suffering" is relative: someone's end of the world may just be a day in the life for someone else.
It still does not give any good reason to say "Hey, talk about you suffering? You should have seen what I went through!"
Sounds too much like blame the victim or belittle their pain.
I guess I think that "cyber-bullying" is just one element of many for attacking a person and that more is there that they cannot "turn away from".
The idea of "proportional suffering" seems like a fallacy for justifying things like crying over getting an "ugly black iphone." If someone does that, I think we would all feel comfortable telling them to grow up.
I do take cyberbullying seriously. Someone from Germany thought it would be funny to cyberbully Dark Emperor.
I had been thinking about this for a while. proportional suffering isn't a fallacy, people have their own issues and deal with them in their own ways. This is why there are so many self-help books, and why the Chicken Soup for the X series is so popular and being sold. There might be a jewish family in a concentration camp fearing for their lives, knowing they may never see freedom, and then there is Alfndrate who owes various banks and federal governments several thousand dollars. Every month I wonder, "will this be the month when I finally go under?" and become unable to make my student loan payments. I live in fear of fething my credit score to nothing in an instant. I live in fear of becoming a burden on my friends and family because of the debt that I'm in, and wondering what I'll look like covered in grime living in a box down by the river. Does the Jewish family's suffering make my own personal suffering and fear any less relevant to me? No, so please stop bringing up this stuff about "first world problems" and how we're "whining" about things that don't matter.
You still have problems that aren't as severe. If proportional suffering is real, than it's just as serious a problem when a girl gets an "ugly black iphone."
Monster Rain wrote: While I agree that this isn't the place for the discussion, I think that a paradigm shift takes place after one first makes sweet, sweet love.
I actually very strongly agree. At the same time, I also realize that having one's first time isn't what desperate people think it's going to be and doesn't change any social problems or future potential for . I do think though that it changes subtle aspects of one's appearance or personality that improve overall maturity. This is subject to the Tupee Fallacy just from observation, but virgins tend to have some less mature, younger, or odd quality about them that I can't really describe. Strangeness and effeminacy strike me as being part of it. I have a bit of a radar for detecting oddness in people. It's always based on strangeness I can't easily identify, but when I focus I can usually find specific qualities.
That's absolute arse gravy of the highest order.
Actually that entire post is arse gravy of the highest order.
It's probably because those are the only one's I can actually see. Other's don't get noticed.
Monster Rain wrote: While I agree that this isn't the place for the discussion, I think that a paradigm shift takes place after one first makes sweet, sweet love.
I actually very strongly agree. At the same time, I also realize that having one's first time isn't what desperate people think it's going to be and doesn't change any social problems or future potential for . I do think though that it changes subtle aspects of one's appearance or personality that improve overall maturity. This is subject to the Tupee Fallacy just from observation, but virgins tend to have some less mature, younger, or odd quality about them that I can't really describe. Strangeness and effeminacy strike me as being part of it. I have a bit of a radar for detecting oddness in people. It's always based on strangeness I can't easily identify, but when I focus I can usually find specific qualities.
That's absolute arse gravy of the highest order.
Actually that entire post is arse gravy of the highest order.
It's probably because those are the only one's I can actually see. Other's don't get noticed.
Monster Rain wrote: While I agree that this isn't the place for the discussion, I think that a paradigm shift takes place after one first makes sweet, sweet love.
I actually very strongly agree. At the same time, I also realize that having one's first time isn't what desperate people think it's going to be and doesn't change any social problems or future potential for . I do think though that it changes subtle aspects of one's appearance or personality that improve overall maturity. This is subject to the Tupee Fallacy just from observation, but virgins tend to have some less mature, younger, or odd quality about them that I can't really describe. Strangeness and effeminacy strike me as being part of it. I have a bit of a radar for detecting oddness in people. It's always based on strangeness I can't easily identify, but when I focus I can usually find specific qualities.
That's absolute arse gravy of the highest order. Actually that entire post is arse gravy of the highest order.
Well, according to internet law we can now assume Ehrenstein is a virgin.
Calling a rape victim of virgin. Do you know what a total piece of that makes you?
Err, come again? Either you read something that you imagined was in his post, or you're expecting him to be a psychic. Either way, your insult is unjust.
wtf? This doesn't even make sense, unless of course you were a victim of rape, in which case, we would have no fething clue... That handle over there in the corner? Dude, you just flew off it.
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: You still have problems that aren't as severe. If proportional suffering is real, than it's just as serious a problem when a girl gets an "ugly black iphone."
But my problems are just as relevant as someone else's problems, handwaving one person's issues and basically saying, "the holocaust was worst" is ludicrous, OF COURSE IT WAS WORSE, it doesn't invalidate my "suffering"
wtf? This doesn't even make sense, unless of course you were a victim of rape, in which case, we would have no fething clue... That handle over there in the corner? Dude, you just flew off it.
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: You still have problems that aren't as severe. If proportional suffering is real, than it's just as serious a problem when a girl gets an "ugly black iphone."
But my problems are just as relevant as someone else's problems, handwaving one person's issues and basically saying, "the holocaust was worst" is ludicrous, OF COURSE IT WAS WORSE, it doesn't invalidate my "suffering"
Oh yes. Is this when I said that the number of times he calls people virgins or uses it as some sort of casual insult brings his experience into question?
I was taken advantage of while blacked out, so yes, technically... And I feel ashamed of it in a way.
Yes, that's true, and I don't dismiss problems as not as bad as the Holocaust, but it's still not as bad and you can't say that it somehow feels as bad just because you haven't experienced the Holocaust.
this cyber bullying is the same as normal bullying, with INVOLVED mature, proactive parenting, its not an issue.
Problem is, now we have a generation of complete wussies, raising a generation of even wussier wusses... who would never dream of sticking to their guns and actually taking away computer/tv privilages or grounding their precious little snowflake who is only a bully becuse sociaty failed them.
when I was a kid, if there was a bully beating you up/picking on you, you fought back or stood up for yourself and he stopped, if that didnt work, get the parents/teachers involved and they would talk to his parents, and it would stop, because those parents would discipline their child. If the adults are DISCIPLINING the bullies properly, then they will learn that their behavior is unacceptable, and that there are consequences for their actions.
Its all this "oh its not little jimmies fault hes a bully, society is failing him, and so is the internet" and other such excuses. Followed up of course, with no proper disciplinary actions.
So what I see all to often is child A will bully child B, constantly, and often very cruelly, child B will seek out help from adults, and either not get any, or get some half arsed solution that doesnt discipline the bully at all, and only serves to single out the kid being bullied
now with cyber bullying, if you dont like what someone is saying to you... its called /ignore, or choosing not to expose yourself to the particular site that is allowing you to be "bullied"
even then though, there needs to be proper and strict disciplinary actions to get the bully in line.
all this feel good do nothing parenting wont work, sometimes kids need a good spanking/grounding/ect to get the point across that their negative actions have negative consequences
Yes, that's true, and I don't dismiss problems as not as bad as the Holocaust, but it's still not as bad and you can't say that it somehow feels as bad just because you haven't experienced the Holocaust.
Suffering is relative (and that doesn't mean I am not aware of crimes against humanity). if you cannot see that then there is no point continuing especially when you are probably the only one referencing the holocaust with regards to this subject.
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: Oh yes. Is this when I said that the number of times he calls people virgins or uses it as some sort of casual insult brings his experience into question?
Yes
I was taken advantage of while blacked out, so yes, technically... And I feel ashamed of it in a way.
Well, you can't blame any of us for not knowing a dark personal history of you man. As someone that has been down a similar road, don't let it define you and you can learn to get over such things, and in time it will get better, but there's no reason to get angry at someone for not knowing your personal history.
Yes, that's true, and I don't dismiss problems as not as bad as the Holocaust, but it's still not as bad and you can't say that it somehow feels as bad just because you haven't experienced the Holocaust.
You said that kids who killed themselves over bulling didn't know true suffering and then made a reference to the holocaust... And while people that haven't experienced that level of suffering should not have their own suffering invalidated because it wasn't as bad as x, y, or z event.
this cyber bullying is the same as normal bullying, with INVOLVED mature, proactive parenting, its not an issue.
Problem is, now we have a generation of complete wussies, raising a generation of even wussier wusses... who would never dream of sticking to their guns and actually taking away computer/tv privilages or grounding their precious little snowflake who is only a bully becuse sociaty failed them.
when I was a kid, if there was a bully beating you up/picking on you, you fought back or stood up for yourself and he stopped, if that didnt work, get the parents/teachers involved and they would talk to his parents, and it would stop, because those parents would discipline their child. If the adults are DISCIPLINING the bullies properly, then they will learn that their behavior is unacceptable, and that there are consequences for their actions.
Its all this "oh its not little jimmies fault hes a bully, society is failing him, and so is the internet" and other such excuses. Followed up of course, with no proper disciplinary actions.
So what I see all to often is child A will bully child B, constantly, and often very cruelly, child B will seek out help from adults, and either not get any, or get some half arsed solution that doesnt discipline the bully at all, and only serves to single out the kid being bullied
now with cyber bullying, if you dont like what someone is saying to you... its called /ignore, or choosing not to expose yourself to the particular site that is allowing you to be "bullied"
even then though, there needs to be proper and strict disciplinary actions to get the bully in line.
all this feel good do nothing parenting wont work, sometimes kids need a good spanking/grounding/ect to get the point across that their negative actions have negative consequences
easysauce wrote: this cyber bullying is the same as normal bullying, with INVOLVED mature, proactive parenting, its not an issue.
Problem is, now we have a generation of complete wussies, raising a generation of even wussier wusses... who would never dream of sticking to their guns and actually taking away computer/tv privilages or grounding their precious little snowflake who is only a bully becuse sociaty failed them.
when I was a kid, if there was a bully beating you up/picking on you, you fought back or stood up for yourself and he stopped, if that didnt work, get the parents/teachers involved and they would talk to his parents, and it would stop, because those parents would discipline their child. If the adults are DISCIPLINING the bullies properly, then they will learn that their behavior is unacceptable, and that there are consequences for their actions.
Its all this "oh its not little jimmies fault hes a bully, society is failing him, and so is the internet" and other such excuses. Followed up of course, with no proper disciplinary actions.
So what I see all to often is child A will bully child B, constantly, and often very cruelly, child B will seek out help from adults, and either not get any, or get some half arsed solution that doesnt discipline the bully at all, and only serves to single out the kid being bullied
now with cyber bullying, if you dont like what someone is saying to you... its called /ignore, or choosing not to expose yourself to the particular site that is allowing you to be "bullied"
even then though, there needs to be proper and strict disciplinary actions to get the bully in line.
all this feel good do nothing parenting wont work, sometimes kids need a good spanking/grounding/ect to get the point across that their negative actions have negative consequences
It isn't just parents though, a change to the values you propose would need to be actioned across a wide spectrum of society.
easysauce wrote: this cyber bullying is the same as normal bullying, with INVOLVED mature, proactive parenting, its not an issue.
Problem is, now we have a generation of complete wussies, raising a generation of even wussier wusses... who would never dream of sticking to their guns and actually taking away computer/tv privilages or grounding their precious little snowflake who is only a bully becuse sociaty failed them.
when I was a kid, if there was a bully beating you up/picking on you, you fought back or stood up for yourself and he stopped, if that didnt work, get the parents/teachers involved and they would talk to his parents, and it would stop, because those parents would discipline their child. If the adults are DISCIPLINING the bullies properly, then they will learn that their behavior is unacceptable, and that there are consequences for their actions.
Its all this "oh its not little jimmies fault hes a bully, society is failing him, and so is the internet" and other such excuses. Followed up of course, with no proper disciplinary actions.
So what I see all to often is child A will bully child B, constantly, and often very cruelly, child B will seek out help from adults, and either not get any, or get some half arsed solution that doesnt discipline the bully at all, and only serves to single out the kid being bullied
now with cyber bullying, if you dont like what someone is saying to you... its called /ignore, or choosing not to expose yourself to the particular site that is allowing you to be "bullied"
even then though, there needs to be proper and strict disciplinary actions to get the bully in line.
all this feel good do nothing parenting wont work, sometimes kids need a good spanking/grounding/ect to get the point across that their negative actions have negative consequences
It isn't just parents though, a change to the values you propose would need to be actioned across a wide spectrum of society.
Mr. Burning wrote: It isn't just parents though, a change to the values you propose would need to be actioned across a wide spectrum of society.
parents/adults in general need to learn how to discipline children effectively/consitantly, but its not societies fault, we have to stop blaming "society" for everything... society is just a collection of individuals, and their individual actions/attitudes.
We need to realise that individuals make the society, society does not make the individuals.
despite people hammering that they are "forced" or made a certain way by society, its complete BS, and more of the "im not accountable for anything" attitude.
The biggest problem, is that the kids who DO speak up and ask for help, they do not get it, and by asking for help they are now painted with a big target.
so we have taught them, hey, you are on your own, parents/teachers/adults cannot help you, so dont even ask for help. Take it like the helpless little beeatch you are, because you are all alone, your parents wont help you, and neither will anyone else.
I could see how a teacher could not want to get invlolved, what with haveing no paddling anymore and basically being very vunerable to legal reprimand even for doing the right thing (like say disciplining a bully properly),
but the buck stops at the parents, if parents cannot effectively handle a bully, then they are not effective parents. Cant use the society excuse, the buck stops at the parents. If kids cant talk to their parents and ask for help, there has been a parenting failure, not a societal one.
Mr. Burning wrote: It isn't just parents though, a change to the values you propose would need to be actioned across a wide spectrum of society.
parents/adults in general need to learn how to discipline children effectively/consitantly, but its not societies fault, we have to stop blaming "society" for everything... society is just a collection of individuals, and their individual actions/attitudes.
We need to realise that individuals make the society, society does not make the individuals.
despite people hammering that they are "forced" or made a certain way by society, its complete BS, and more of the "im not accountable for anything" attitude.
The biggest problem, is that the kids who DO speak up and ask for help, they do not get it, and by asking for help they are now painted with a big target.
so we have taught them, hey, you are on your own, parents/teachers/adults cannot help you, so dont even ask for help. Take it like the helpless little beeatch you are, because you are all alone, your parents wont help you, and neither will anyone else.
I could see how a teacher could not want to get invlolved, what with haveing no paddling anymore and basically being very vunerable to legal reprimand even for doing the right thing (like say disciplining a bully properly),
but the buck stops at the parents, if parents cannot effectively handle a bully, then they are not effective parents. Cant use the society excuse, the buck stops at the parents. If kids cant talk to their parents and ask for help, there has been a parenting failure, not a societal one.
I agree to a point but society has been moulded into believing in the snowflake generation. Parents would need to affect change otherwise smacking kids and discipline will mean a trip to the local constabulary.
Most parents have a real fear, generated by the media and by very real changes made to society , of anything which can affect them or makes them look like a bad parent.
I do wholeheartedly agree that parents should suck it up and actually look after their children.
easysauce wrote: this cyber bullying is the same as normal bullying, with INVOLVED mature, proactive parenting, its not an issue.
Problem is, now we have a generation of complete wussies, raising a generation of even wussier wusses... who would never dream of sticking to their guns and actually taking away computer/tv privilages or grounding their precious little snowflake who is only a bully becuse sociaty failed them.
when I was a kid, if there was a bully beating you up/picking on you, you fought back or stood up for yourself and he stopped, if that didnt work, get the parents/teachers involved and they would talk to his parents, and it would stop, because those parents would discipline their child. If the adults are DISCIPLINING the bullies properly, then they will learn that their behavior is unacceptable, and that there are consequences for their actions.
Its all this "oh its not little jimmies fault hes a bully, society is failing him, and so is the internet" and other such excuses. Followed up of course, with no proper disciplinary actions.
So what I see all to often is child A will bully child B, constantly, and often very cruelly, child B will seek out help from adults, and either not get any, or get some half arsed solution that doesnt discipline the bully at all, and only serves to single out the kid being bullied
now with cyber bullying, if you dont like what someone is saying to you... its called /ignore, or choosing not to expose yourself to the particular site that is allowing you to be "bullied"
even then though, there needs to be proper and strict disciplinary actions to get the bully in line.
all this feel good do nothing parenting wont work, sometimes kids need a good spanking/grounding/ect to get the point across that their negative actions have negative consequences
It isn't just parents though, a change to the values you propose would need to be actioned across a wide spectrum of society.
NO!
Emphatically... NO!
It starts with parenting/adults.
It may start with parents but you need changes in the special snowflake society the kids will be exposed too.
Monster Rain wrote: While I agree that this isn't the place for the discussion, I think that a paradigm shift takes place after one first makes sweet, sweet love.
I actually very strongly agree. At the same time, I also realize that having one's first time isn't what desperate people think it's going to be and doesn't change any social problems or future potential for . I do think though that it changes subtle aspects of one's appearance or personality that improve overall maturity. This is subject to the Tupee Fallacy just from observation, but virgins tend to have some less mature, younger, or odd quality about them that I can't really describe. Strangeness and effeminacy strike me as being part of it. I have a bit of a radar for detecting oddness in people. It's always based on strangeness I can't easily identify, but when I focus I can usually find specific qualities.
That's absolute arse gravy of the highest order.
Actually that entire post is arse gravy of the highest order.
It's probably because those are the only one's I can actually see. Other's don't get noticed.
That's bollocks.
Thee's no physical change after having sex for the first time. There may be change if you have had sex for the first time during puberty but that's nothing to do with sex. Saying that people change because they have had sex for the first time is absolute nonsense. You might as well claim people are criminals because they are born that way.
Inquisitor Ehrenstein if you're this awesome at finding out what people are virgins can you list the people in this thread that you think are virgins? I want to see how accurate you are.
Cheesecat wrote: Inquisitor Ehrenstein if you're this awesome at finding out what people are virgins can you list the people in this thread that you think are virgins? I want to see how accurate you are.
We'd all be accused of lying about it anyway (and I'm sure some would).
Cheesecat wrote: Inquisitor Ehrenstein if you're this awesome at finding out what people are virgins can you list the people in this thread that you think are virgins? I want to see how accurate you are.
We'd all be accused of lying about it anyway (and I'm sure some would).
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: I do take cyberbullying seriously. Someone from Germany thought it would be funny to cyberbully Dark Emperor.
Sure you do.....
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: If you kill yourself because people said mean things to you on the internet, than feth you.
I've experienced really bullying. Those people should go tell concentration camp survivors how similar their experience was to receiving dumb comments in their Youtube videos.
Anyone who commits suicide because of bullying, feth you. I went through serious gak for years, and then I read about these rich, White, entitled fethers who kill themselves because they got made fun of for a month.
Not to mention that people who get "cyberbullied" are most often willingly putting themselves into positions to be cyberbullied. If someone is writing harassing comments on your Youtube videos, than stop reviewing the comments.
Everyone gets bullied. If you commit suicide because you're too good for sth that everyone goes through, than feth you.
While these spoiled, rich, entitled, White kids are committing suicide because people said mean things to them several hundred kids just died because they don't have clean water.
I have been though gak these rich entitled kids can't imagine, and I have never, not even once thought about suicide.
I have a bit of a radar for detecting oddness in people.
Hilarious. You are always entertaining, and that above rambling is a good example of some of your more entertaining, well, rambling. No facts, no justification, just 'they feel different and are associated with these things because I say so'.
I have actual basis for most of these things, but I'm not going to bore you and waste time going over volumes of accumulated psychological knowledge for a fething forum post.
I have a bit of a radar for detecting oddness in people.
Hilarious. You are always entertaining, and that above rambling is a good example of some of your more entertaining, well, rambling. No facts, no justification, just 'they feel different and are associated with these things because I say so'.
Yeah, Inquisitor Ehrenstein use to infuriate me but I've gotten so use to his weird behaviour that I just find it amusing now.
LOL. Ableist .
Albeist?
Someone claiming your frankly ridiculous and self humiliating actions in this thread to be ammusing. This does not equate to albeisim. You seem to assume everyone is aware of your condition, and that any criticisim of your character, or bemusement by your behaviour equtes to discrimination. It's just like that time you made a wiki page for a member of this forum(blood reaper?) because he was critical of both your work and anothers on your 'bigotry' wiki.
I have a bit of a radar for detecting oddness in people.
Hilarious. You are always entertaining, and that above rambling is a good example of some of your more entertaining, well, rambling. No facts, no justification, just 'they feel different and are associated with these things because I say so'.
Yeah, Inquisitor Ehrenstein use to infuriate me but I've gotten so use to his weird behaviour that I just find it amusing now.
LOL. Ableist .
I don't find you amusing because of your disabilities I find you amusing because you say things that I often find bizarre, also I'm wasn't aware of your disability nor am I likely knowledgeable enough about your disability to know if you're naturally an eccentric person or if it's your disability that
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: I do take cyberbullying seriously. Someone from Germany thought it would be funny to cyberbully Dark Emperor.
Sure you do.....
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: If you kill yourself because people said mean things to you on the internet, than feth you.
I've experienced really bullying. Those people should go tell concentration camp survivors how similar their experience was to receiving dumb comments in their Youtube videos.
Anyone who commits suicide because of bullying, feth you. I went through serious gak for years, and then I read about these rich, White, entitled fethers who kill themselves because they got made fun of for a month.
Not to mention that people who get "cyberbullied" are most often willingly putting themselves into positions to be cyberbullied. If someone is writing harassing comments on your Youtube videos, than stop reviewing the comments.
Everyone gets bullied. If you commit suicide because you're too good for sth that everyone goes through, than feth you.
While these spoiled, rich, entitled, White kids are committing suicide because people said mean things to them several hundred kids just died because they don't have clean water.
I have been though gak these rich entitled kids can't imagine, and I have never, not even once thought about suicide.
Did he... I think he did... I'm pretty sure the good inquisitor blamed the victim!
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: I do take cyberbullying seriously. Someone from Germany thought it would be funny to cyberbully Dark Emperor.
Sure you do.....
Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: If you kill yourself because people said mean things to you on the internet, than feth you.
I've experienced really bullying. Those people should go tell concentration camp survivors how similar their experience was to receiving dumb comments in their Youtube videos.
Anyone who commits suicide because of bullying, feth you. I went through serious gak for years, and then I read about these rich, White, entitled fethers who kill themselves because they got made fun of for a month.
Not to mention that people who get "cyberbullied" are most often willingly putting themselves into positions to be cyberbullied. If someone is writing harassing comments on your Youtube videos, than stop reviewing the comments.
Everyone gets bullied. If you commit suicide because you're too good for sth that everyone goes through, than feth you.
While these spoiled, rich, entitled, White kids are committing suicide because people said mean things to them several hundred kids just died because they don't have clean water.
I have been though gak these rich entitled kids can't imagine, and I have never, not even once thought about suicide.
Did he... I think he did... I'm pretty sure the good inquisitor blamed the victim!
people who get "cyberbullied" are most often willingly putting themselves into positions to be cyberbullied
This part especially gave me a slightly maniacal grin. Not only blaming the victim, but with the #1 victim blaming stock phrase. Seen here in all its glory.
people who get "cyberbullied" are most often willingly putting themselves into positions to be cyberbullied
This part especially gave me a slightly maniacal grin. Not only blaming the victim, but with the #1 victim blaming stock phrase. Seen here in all its glory.
people who get "cyberbullied" are most often willingly putting themselves into positions to be cyberbullied
This part especially gave me a slightly maniacal grin. Not only blaming the victim, but with the #1 victim blaming stock phrase. Seen here in all its glory.
people who get "cyberbullied" are most often willingly putting themselves into positions to be cyberbullied
This part especially gave me a slightly maniacal grin. Not only blaming the victim, but with the #1 victim blaming stock phrase. Seen here in all its glory.
)
I guess that's a bit much for someone who left a gakky comment. 
. I do think though that it changes subtle aspects of one's appearance or personality that improve overall maturity. This is subject to the Tupee Fallacy just from observation, but virgins tend to have some less mature, younger, or odd quality about them that I can't really describe. Strangeness and effeminacy strike me as being part of it. I have a bit of a radar for detecting oddness in people. It's always based on strangeness I can't easily identify, but when I focus I can usually find specific qualities.
