Added 5th September: Confirmed that from September releases onward, only English and French names will be featured on ANY side of the boxes and blisters. Boxes released before September are currently not affected of course.
Hi,
as a nod to non-English customers, GW can't be bothered anymore to even put the correct names on the box or blister (with the exception of French). The message is clear: "You want to play our game, learn English, dude!"
Guess that is this year's marketing strategy to improve sales
This seems weird, and unnecessary. Maybe they are doing this because their sales are mostly based in area's with native English speakers, but that's not really gonna help expansion when you limit your game to those who speak a specific language.
Seems strange they would do that, maybe its just a sample pic before they were finished properly ?
Either way, the pictures on the boxes are much bigger, better and from more angles !
The German market is quite big. And here "Vanguard Veteran Squad" is called "Expugnatorgarde" and a "Librarian" is called a "Scriptor". Tell that a 14 year old.
And the pic is just an example. It is an official statement to stockists.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:It's no different to most big brands
they want a single name the can use across the whole world
This is something different.
The Codex still calls them Expugnatorgarde and Scriptor. Only German customers have to guess, that these are the same as "Vanguard Veteran Squad" and "Librarian".
thenoobbomb wrote:Aren't most books in English, though?
The Codices and standard rulebooks are still in German. Still. But I guess, GW is abandonning all non-English markets because they think it is not worth it anymore.
It would surprise me if they reduced their support for their German market. As Kroothawk said, it's a big one, seemingly loaded with collectors who do not seem to mind dropping a lot of Euros on premium priced products.
The existence of a German Games Day in a year when GW dropped down to only four events worldwide is evidence that the market is significant. It's also worth pointing out that every GW that I visit in Germany tends to be busy. The stores that I have seen in the US and London have not been nearly as vibrant.
They gonna have a bad time to hit the French-Canadian market, there is market law that require to have a bilingual display on product. Right, I see ya coming, French-Canadian market is probably the smallest one in the entire world, why GW would care... ! It is not that hard to make a little subtitle any language under it. For me, this is just one more nail on the coffin that already been buried a while ago
I remember before, all languages were in the same box even the assembly manual had multi-language support. What happend to thoses translator... did they get fired?! lol Doing a Copy/Paste on a box and than Open Google Translator and change some words or find equivalent is not very pushy, it will show at least they care...
I think you guys are really getting worked up over nothing. Have you checked all sides of the box or are you just basing this on the front box pictures from the GW page?
I always thought having all the different translations on the box looked messy and cluttered, but I suppose being an English speaker I don't appreciate it anyway.
If by "official statement" you mean "your interpretation", then yes.
Other languages may well not be present on the boxes, but you have posted this with no source. The new artwork on the boxes doesn't require it to be explained, it's pretty obvious what you're getting inside.
If they're still producing the rules in your language, what's the problem? I wouldn't let something as trivial as this put you off a hobby you enjoy. Obviously if everything came in blank boxes then it might be an issue.
Well, looking at this year's print (and digital) releases for 40k, the writing was on the wall for quite some time.
I can only imagine that this latest development is part of their ongoing campaign to "protect their IP", and someone thought this was easier if they only have to deal with a single designation per product.
Either that, or they took a look at the rest of the wargaming industry and thought they could get away with English-only rulebooks since a lot of the competition can, too. The biggest problem I see with that is that most competitors don't try to cater to early teens on a worldwide scale.
Not that I would miss the German translations, I always found them atrocious, but I can guarantee that ten out of thirteen guys in my local group will never buy an English rulebook of any kind...
Allod wrote: Well, looking at this year's print (and digital) releases for 40k, the writing was on the wall for quite some time.
I can only imagine that this latest development is part of their ongoing campaign to "protect their IP", and someone thought this was easier if they only have to deal with a single designation per product.
Either that, or they took a look at the rest of the wargaming industry and thought they could get away with English-only rulebooks since a lot of the competition can, too. The biggest problem I see with that is that most competitors don't try to cater to early teens on a worldwide scale.
Not that I would miss the German translations, I always found them atrocious, but I can guarantee that ten out of thirteen guys in my local group will never buy an English rulebook of any kind...
I think you got a point here, especially with GW plan to focus on South America and Asia market for further developpement and only offring them english product for teenage people that bearly understand it. There is clearly a contradiction in what GW is aiming for. It is not that hard for one box to have multi-language like it was before. It's not annoying at all, it's just show that GW care about reaching the proper market with the proper product.
Medium of Death wrote: I think you guys are really getting worked up over nothing. Have you checked all sides of the box or are you just basing this on the front box pictures from the GW page?
This.
They have obviously gone down a minimalised cover route. The Big markets are well covered any one else will get a localised sticker I guess.
They have obviously gone down a minimalised cover route. The Big markets are well covered any one else will get a localised sticker I guess.
...which I would tend to think as well if GW hadn't started to leave everything apart from the print version amrybooks / codices untranslated.
In other words, this not about the box art, it's about a VERY strong trend. (And I don't think anybody discussing this on an English-speaking forum is getting "worked up" about it, just for the record.)
Medium of Death wrote: I think you guys are really getting worked up over nothing. Have you checked all sides of the box or are you just basing this on the front box pictures from the GW page?
This.
They have obviously gone down a minimalised cover route. The Big markets are well covered any one else will get a localised sticker I guess.
If not the giant pictures kinda help.
I'll find out when I visit my FLGS in Frankfurt to buy a box of Sternguard (if someone doesn't beat me to it). In any case, I can look at a new box of Space Marines or one of the new vehicles.
For those who may not remember, GW's usual practice is to print the titles in six different languages on every kit. That covers most of the world that has both a lot of disposable income and a lot of disposable time, though it was still a slap in the face of many of the European countries that have large numbers of gamers (Poland and Russia come to mind).
Your comment that pictures and English are enough isn't really spot on, but you may be right that the other sides of the box will have additional text in the other languages. Remember that you still need descriptions of box contents, appropriate customer age, and any required warnings.
I rather like the new box designs, they look cleaner and sleeker, like some sort of luxury product, plus I'm pretty sure it is still printed in different languages on the side of the box.
BrookM wrote: I rather like the new box designs, they look cleaner and sleeker, like some sort of luxury product, plus I'm pretty sure it is still printed in different languages on the side of the box.
They had to start shrinking the wordage on the boxes in order to fit the ten foot tall space marine models images on the front of their boxes....
BrookM wrote:I rather like the new box designs, they look cleaner and sleeker, like some sort of luxury product, plus I'm pretty sure it is still printed in different languages on the side of the box.
Yes, I agree with both of your points. Legal requirements alone will likely ensure the latter.
Byte wrote:This must of been something we missed in the BRB or FAQ. Another 6th edition rules change just now catching on.
just kidding... stand down...
Now I think you are just baiting Kroothawk. In his defense, I would much rather that he tell us too much news than not enough. I'm particularly enjoying the new Tyranid rumor thread and hope that the future Imperial Guard rumor thread will be even more interesting.
Yes, I agree with both of your points. Legal requirements alone will likely ensure the latter.
As far as safety disclaimers and product description go, sure, that's mandatory for products sold in the EU.
As far as the actual names go, though, there's no such requirement. Except for France (and Quebec?), which is probably why you still see the French unit name on the box.
That's a pity. I would like to see GW do a better job of attracting more players and collectors for Warhammer 40K in Austria, Switzerland, and Germany (and western Belgium). If only because I live in Germany and like to visit cities in the other countries.
While the gaming scene is weaker here, the modelling and painting community is amazingly good (and the gamers tend to paint their models more than US gamers on average).
...My first thought is that the box looks cleaner. I think its more appealing. Boxes with a-lot of text in 6 languages seem cheap and old. I like this better.
I assert the real size of the space marine models to reflect their 10+ ft tall stature led to the demise of the normally additional languages to make space for this massive girth.
JB wrote: Good point! The text took up very little space on the box and certainly did not detract from the imagery.
It could be they thought the translations of "Sternguard" in several other languages were stupid as well.
What? You mean stupider than the English name? Next we will have Crossguard or Dourguard. I don't see this as a valid reason. And it only takes a day or two to get a decent translation for new units. For all of the old units, no new work was required.
WarOne wrote:I assert the real size of the space marine models to reflect their 10+ ft tall stature led to the demise of the normally additional languages to make space for this massive girth.
While crazy, your reason makes more sense than any other justification listed here so far.
Do they still produce plastic figures in the USA? Maybe this is a USA/ Canada market box hence English and French will do.
I've checked the most recent box I've bought (re-packaged Space Marine bike squadron) and it has the design as per the photo in the original post but with English, French, German, Italian, Spanish, Chines? Japanese? on it.
Kanluwen wrote:It could be they thought the translations of "Sternguard" in several other languages were stupid as well.
Malika2 wrote:Man, just learn English! It's like how in Germany and France they dub all American movies *shudders*.
I share your sentiments.
But if I was selling something to customers who predominantly need a translation to use my product, no matter what I personally thought about that, I'd try to meet their demands instead of telling them they can go and take their money elsewhere if they don't meet my demands.
Kanluwen wrote:It could be they thought the translations of "Sternguard" in several other languages were stupid as well.
Malika2 wrote:Man, just learn English! It's like how in Germany and France they dub all American movies *shudders*.
I share your sentiments.
But if I was selling something to customers who predominantly need a translation to use my product, no matter what I personally thought about that, I'd try to meet their demands instead of telling them they can go and take their money elsewhere if they don't meet my demands.
I dunno, most computer games seem to be in English, nothing translated into German/French/etc and those seem to work just fine. Is it really necessary to 'dub' 40k? I can get it that a rulebook or Codex or whatever might need to be translated, but the names of specific units? I think that might be a bit overkill. It's not as if something would be totally lost if a unit is called a 'Librarian' and doesn't know what the word is in his native language.
When I started out with 40k my English wasn't that good yet, I had no idea what a 'Chaplain' was (kinda embarrassing, I know), but it's not that this stopped me from enjoying the game/hobby/etc. It was just the name of a unit.
Ouze wrote: Any confirmation one way or the other than the other languages aren't on the other side of the box? Is this truly the end of the Marines Espaciale?
If you look at the side of the Sternguard box picture in the OP, it only has English and French.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:It's no different to most big brands
they want a single name the can use across the whole world
This is something different.
The Codex still calls them Expugnatorgarde and Scriptor. Only German customers have to guess, that these are the same as "Vanguard Veteran Squad" and "Librarian".
thenoobbomb wrote:Aren't most books in English, though?
The Codices and standard rulebooks are still in German. Still. But I guess, GW is abandonning all non-English markets because they think it is not worth it anymore.
your local GW hobby store can help you with translations!
Malika2 wrote: I dunno, most computer games seem to be in English, nothing translated into German/French/etc and those seem to work just fine. Is it really necessary to 'dub' 40k? I can get it that a rulebook or Codex or whatever might need to be translated, but the names of specific units? I think that might be a bit overkill. It's not as if something would be totally lost if a unit is called a 'Librarian' and doesn't know what the word is in his native language.
Not true. You would be extremely hard pressed to find a computer game in a store that isn't translated into German, and I would assume that the same holds true for France.
Young 'uns over here simply are not exposed to English outside of school at all. Everything is translated or dubbed because the market is big enough, so pupils have virtually no practice in English. I suppose the situation in the Netherlands is very different (and Dutch is very closely related to English, let's not forget that), but in Germany and Austria, many people never develop the skills necessary to comprehend the background or rules of a game like Warhammer in English. If they do, it's usually at a later age than GW's preferred target audience. It's deplorable, but a fact that won't change in the foreseeable future.
But the problem is less that players here wouldn't know what Sternguard meant or how to pronounce it correctly and more that it seems GW is ever so slowly phasing out support for foreign languages.
Death from the Skies is only available in English.
All digital publications are only available in English.
All supplements so far are only available in English.
The new mini rulebook (!) is only available in English.
If this continues, they'll be enticing fewer and fewer people to get into the hobby or keep up to date with the rules, which can only be bad for them.
JB wrote: Good point! The text took up very little space on the box and certainly did not detract from the imagery.
It could be they thought the translations of "Sternguard" in several other languages were stupid as well.
What? You mean stupider than the English name? Next we will have Crossguard or Dourguard.
"Stern" as in your rear, not "stern" as in strict. Contrast to the Vanguard Veterans, who are in the vanguard...
But that would be a rearguard. Does any military force actually call it a sternguard? If not then how can they be veterans of fighting in an action that doesn't exist? They should be rearguard veterans, as they are veterans of fighting in rearguard actions.
Sturm der Vegultung sounds so much cooler than Dark Vengeance. It even translates into a cooler phrase, 'Storm of Vengeance'. They shoulda called the English boxset that
A Town Called Malus wrote: Sturm der Vegultung sounds so much cooler than Dark Vengeance. It even translates into a cooler phrase, 'Storm of Vengeance'. They shoulda called the English boxset that
Already taken by a Dark Angels/ Orks 2nd Ed campaign pack.
It is a valid point because it is very difficult for me to find a softcover German language mini rulebook. I already have an English language starter set and I don't want to spend the Euro on another set with German language components. I just want the mini rulebook because I want to learn the German language USRs. I have the one from 5th Edition which helps but it doesn't have all of the terminology for the new edition.
So a mini hardback in German language might have been useful, if it was also cheaper than the current price.
This is a cost saving measure and nothing more. Remember you have to look at the facts over the recent years on the quality of services/product that Games workshop has reduced/removed. They did this to continue their revenue streamlining process.
Adam LongWalker wrote: This is a cost saving measure and nothing more. Remember you have to look at the facts over the recent years on the quality of services/product that Games workshop has reduced/removed. They did this to continue their revenue streamlining process.
It makes sense until you realize that most of the translations don't cost GW anything extra. The German translations, for example, come from a GW employee and most of the names already exist. He only had to add the new unit names. Given that development timelines take a couple of years, the GW employee would have had plenty of time.
A more logical reason is that GW doesn't want more people knowing about the new units well in advance of their release. Translations of multiple languages at an early stage for type layout for the box printing would have given more employees access to the names of the new units. Since a lot of leaks come from the non-English speaking community (probably because they have less to fear from GW's legal team), it probably made sense to GW to reduce the amount of information that had to flow through employees in other countries.
Awwww, my kids love practicing reading the so-so katakana translations!
Trips to the hobby shop will be much more sad not getting to hear my son pronounce some of the questionable translations and then complain loudly to nobody in particular.
Adam LongWalker wrote: This is a cost saving measure and nothing more. Remember you have to look at the facts over the recent years on the quality of services/product that Games workshop has reduced/removed. They did this to continue their revenue streamlining process.
It makes sense until you realize that most of the translations don't cost GW anything extra. The German translations, for example, come from a GW employee and most of the names already exist. He only had to add the new unit names. Given that development timelines take a couple of years, the GW employee would have had plenty of time.
A more logical reason is that GW doesn't want more people knowing about the new units well in advance of their release. Translations of multiple languages at an early stage for type layout for the box printing would have given more employees access to the names of the new units. Since a lot of leaks come from the non-English speaking community (probably because they have less to fear from GW's legal team), it probably made sense to GW to reduce the amount of information that had to flow through employees in other countries.
I don't think it deals that much with a leak situation. Since I have done both pre-press and post production work (as far as I know now since I have been out of the practice for several years now) costs are incur to print runs when you make changes to the "works" being issued, Make one change to the product being changed and it becomes a different print run. This is what I used to deal with for my personal works as well what I learned when dabbling in that profession years ago. This is why I believe it is more of a cost savings than a leak though that might have a secondary aspect to their decision about their current print runs. -Adam
Not true. You would be extremely hard pressed to find a computer game in a store that isn't translated into German, and I would assume that the same holds true for France.
Really? Well, it doesn't surprise me, the 'dubbing industry' (is that even a term?) is a lot more advanced in places like France and Germany.
Young 'uns over here simply are not exposed to English outside of school at all. Everything is translated or dubbed because the market is big enough, so pupils have virtually no practice in English. I suppose the situation in the Netherlands is very different (and Dutch is very closely related to English, let's not forget that), but in Germany and Austria, many people never develop the skills necessary to comprehend the background or rules of a game like Warhammer in English. If they do, it's usually at a later age than GW's preferred target audience. It's deplorable, but a fact that won't change in the foreseeable future.
It's not so much the languages being related thing, Dutch is closer to German than it is to English. However, in the past they just didn't dub stuff on tv, everything was subtitled, which was great because that's how I learned English. I notice that cartoons nowadays are dubbed in Dutch though. I can understand there's a market demand for it, but I've got a feeling that those growing up on these dubbed cartoons will end up having a harder time learning English than we did.
But the problem is less that players here wouldn't know what Sternguard meant or how to pronounce it correctly and more that it seems GW is ever so slowly phasing out support for foreign languages.
But if they keep all the names in English but just translate the books there shouldn't be a problem right?
A Town Called Malus wrote: But that would be a rearguard. Does any military force actually call it a sternguard? If not then how can they be veterans of fighting in an action that doesn't exist? They should be rearguard veterans, as they are veterans of fighting in rearguard actions.
Which military force calls its wizards in power armor Librarians? Which military calls its teleporting super space knights Terminators? We're talking about fictional unit names for plastic toy soldiers here.
"Stern" refers to the aft-most portion of a ship. However, it also means harsh and unrelenting. It also has an alliterative relationship with other words like "steel" (and "steely"), "stark," "stone," and "storm." It pairs well with vanguard and calls to mind veterans who do not take ground but hold it, refusing to yield. That's pretty evocative. It's certainly more evocative than "rearguard" which, in the early 21st century, calls to mind phrases like, "In the rear with the gear," "Leading from the rear," and "REMF." And it's way more evocative and flavorful than the French translation on the box, which is more or less "Squad of Supporting Veterans."
This is great news! Only well educated grown ups will play Warhammer in Germany, while all other countries will still have to deal with filthy pleb kids.
Not true. You would be extremely hard pressed to find a computer game in a store that isn't translated into German, and I would assume that the same holds true for France.
Really? Well, it doesn't surprise me, the 'dubbing industry' (is that even a term?) is a lot more advanced in places like France and Germany.
Okay, so you were indeed serious about this, didn't expect that.
Dubbing industry in USA may be smaller, because customers in USA don't accept even dubbed European movies, they have to be completely redone with American actors (e.g. Nikita, Nightwatch, Stieg Larsson trilogy etc.)
Imagine the uproar on Dakka, if Infinity decided to do all future unit names in Spanish only Thank God they are not that arrogant to their international customers.
Yes, PC games in English are special order here in Germany and not readily available in stores.
JB wrote: Good point! The text took up very little space on the box and certainly did not detract from the imagery.
It could be they thought the translations of "Sternguard" in several other languages were stupid as well.
What? You mean stupider than the English name? Next we will have Crossguard or Dourguard. I don't see this as a valid reason. And it only takes a day or two to get a decent translation for new units. For all of the old units, no new work was required.
Sternguard is describing a rearguard, not the emotion. Vanguard are at the front, Sternguard are at the back.
Not true. You would be extremely hard pressed to find a computer game in a store that isn't translated into German, and I would assume that the same holds true for France.
Really? Well, it doesn't surprise me, the 'dubbing industry' (is that even a term?) is a lot more advanced in places like France and Germany.
Young 'uns over here simply are not exposed to English outside of school at all. Everything is translated or dubbed because the market is big enough, so pupils have virtually no practice in English. I suppose the situation in the Netherlands is very different (and Dutch is very closely related to English, let's not forget that), but in Germany and Austria, many people never develop the skills necessary to comprehend the background or rules of a game like Warhammer in English. If they do, it's usually at a later age than GW's preferred target audience. It's deplorable, but a fact that won't change in the foreseeable future.
It's not so much the languages being related thing, Dutch is closer to German than it is to English. However, in the past they just didn't dub stuff on tv, everything was subtitled, which was great because that's how I learned English. I notice that cartoons nowadays are dubbed in Dutch though. I can understand there's a market demand for it, but I've got a feeling that those growing up on these dubbed cartoons will end up having a harder time learning English than we did.
But the problem is less that players here wouldn't know what Sternguard meant or how to pronounce it correctly and more that it seems GW is ever so slowly phasing out support for foreign languages.
But if they keep all the names in English but just translate the books there shouldn't be a problem right?
I spent a year with the Dutch Marines (Cloggies as they are affectionately known in the corps) and I swear, I don't think I met a single Dutch bloke (or bird, I spent plenty of time chasing the female sailors!) who didn't speak excellent English. It was the same when I was doing my Arctic cadre in Norway, or training with our other closely allied chums in Denmark, Finland, Sweden..
feth knows why, maybe the bigger countries (UK, Germany, France) are arrogant so we always think everyone else should just speak our language?
Although, considering the British had the biggest empire of the three and spawned the whole Anglosphere, and as a result, I doubt as many Dutch or Scandies speak French and German as often as they do English, I suggest they swallow their pride and speak English as well as their neighbors.
Then... there will only be one, pig-ignorant, mono-lingual bunch of arrogant arseholes in Europe that everyone hates.. and it shall be us, the British.
BrookM wrote: I rather like the new box designs, they look cleaner and sleeker, like some sort of luxury product, plus I'm pretty sure it is still printed in different languages on the side of the box.
The plus point of the new design is that it will stand out really well on shelves next to "Character Building" army models and things like that. Thus reducing confusion between GW kits and other companies'.
BrookM wrote: I rather like the new box designs, they look cleaner and sleeker, like some sort of luxury product, plus I'm pretty sure it is still printed in different languages on the side of the box.
The plus point of the new design is that it will stand out really well on shelves next to "Character Building" army models and things like that. Thus reducing confusion between GW kits and other companies'.
Exactly.
Though I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I am somewhat missing the old boxed sets with the painted artwork by all the artists we love and hate.
Eldarain wrote:I thought this thread was going to be about the White Scars character being renamed James Caan. I am disappoint.
That's awesome. Though it might be an improvement on the inherited 50s-80s practice that dominates 40k of making sci-fi caricatures of various real world cultures.
As for the packaging, it is kind of weird to have a mismatch between what the units are called in the codex and what's on the box.
mattyrm wrote: feth knows why, maybe the bigger countries (UK, Germany, France) are arrogant so we always think everyone else should just speak our language?
Although, considering the British had the biggest empire of the three and spawned the whole Anglosphere, and as a result, I doubt as many Dutch or Scandies speak French and German as often as they do English, I suggest they swallow their pride and speak English as well as their neighbors.
Let's for a moment assume that you are serious.
1.) It is enonomic sound to sell products in a language that is understood in a market. English is not commonly understood in Germany (or France), esp. not among the teen target customers. So it is sound to add German language to the box titles. Nobody is demanding ONLY German titles.
2.) Some languages like Dutch or Swedish have a so small number of people speaking it, that foreign media (movies, books) usually decide to not produce translations/dubbings for them. This results in foreign language movies and books being ubiquitous in these contries and people being forced from early on to watch subtitled English language movies. That's why a larger proportion of them understands English.
This negative discrimination of almost all non-English customers is an uncalled for new hurdle for sales in those countries. It is another step in GW's anti-marketing campaign to artificially lower sales.
I predict GW slowly starting to avoid translating new unit names to other languages - but keep translating the rules and codices.
Same trend as "Spiderman" now is being called "Spiderman" in Germany and Sweden - and not "Spinnenmann" and "Spindelmannen".
Get over it.
Although I personally prefer using the older, localized, names I do appreciate the adaption - as when everybody is using the same names for the same stuff it makes it way easier to find information and discuss on forums - even when the names are quite strange in the first place (i.e. as with miniatures from Mierce).
IMHO:
It is way past time for Germany and France to wake up. Their countries are slowly becoming irrelevant and their languages are already almost unimportant. Tough.
Also, even though England and the US within 10 years will be poor 3rd world countries their language is here to stay. Simplified English will be the new world language.
2.) Some languages like Dutch or Swedish have a so small number of people speaking it, that foreign media (movies, books) usually decide to not produce translations/dubbings for them.
And because translating stuff to Swedish makes it sound incredilby silly. Not that that's always a bad thing.
kendoka wrote: It is way past time for Germany and France to wake up. Their countries are slowly becoming irrelevant and their languages are already almost unimportant. Tough.
So you are firmly in the camp of what I called:
"Want to play 40k? Learn English, dude" ?
Allod wrote: Well, looking at this year's print (and digital) releases for 40k, the writing was on the wall for quite some time.
I can only imagine that this latest development is part of their ongoing campaign to "protect their IP", and someone thought this was easier if they only have to deal with a single designation per product.
This was my first thought as well. Not to offend the German (or any other) market, but to protect their IP's names. So this way they can sue "Spots the Sternguard" even of "Spots the Expugnatorgarde" isn't possible due to German laws. Along with being worried that Scibor will release a set of "Expugnator Guard".
IMHO:
It is way past time for Germany and France to wake up. Their countries are slowly becoming irrelevant and their languages are already almost unimportant. Tough.
Also, even though England and the US within 10 years will be poor 3rd world countries their language is here to stay. Simplified English will be the new world language.
To the new world order and to the pure english race! (sarcasm)
It's not about we all talking the same language, it's simply pointing out some flaws in the marketing strategy, why would Games-workshop website offer multi-language support and call "Protektorgarde-Trupp der Space Marines" on their website when on the box it's written "Space Marine Sternguard Veteran Squad ". Just go on their website, on the bottom and select the language you want and see by yourself. The translating job have already been done on the website, why not simply adding it on the box like it was before. I hope the image on the website is just a generic picture and on the real box we can at least find the proper name that match the proper name on the website. At least it will be easier for "foreigner" teenager to find themself in the hobby. Why would they advertise in their language in the website and codex, if thoses boxes will be written in another language.
IMHO:
This thread is clearly on the edge of "English language" nazi to me, hearing the famous " Wanna play 40k, play it in english and only in english, because english is pure". This make me sick a little bit, but well I can't ask a closed mind to open it to other culture. They choose their ignorance.
Yes, I agree with both of your points. Legal requirements alone will likely ensure the latter.
As far as safety disclaimers and product description go, sure, that's mandatory for products sold in the EU.
As far as the actual names go, though, there's no such requirement. Except for France (and Quebec?), which is probably why you still see the French unit name on the box.
Makes me think that a lot of new units may be going for less generic names and more specific ones in future - particularly with all the bastardised Latin in 40k. They can also use these single names in more markets. By this I mean fewer "Tyranid Tyrant Guard" and more "Tyranid Carnifex"
"Stern" as in your rear, not "stern" as in strict. Contrast to the Vanguard Veterans, who are in the vanguard...
But that would be a rearguard. Does any military force actually call it a sternguard? If not then how can they be veterans of fighting in an action that doesn't exist? They should be rearguard veterans, as they are veterans of fighting in rearguard actions.
Stern being a nautical term. Like Marines is also a nautical term. It makes sense.
A Town Called Malus wrote: Sturm der Vegultung sounds so much cooler than Dark Vengeance. It even translates into a cooler phrase, 'Storm of Vengeance'. They shoulda called the English boxset that
It's already been used. I have it, as will many of the other vets.
Not true. You would be extremely hard pressed to find a computer game in a store that isn't translated into German, and I would assume that the same holds true for France.
Really? Well, it doesn't surprise me, the 'dubbing industry' (is that even a term?) is a lot more advanced in places like France and Germany.
Okay, so you were indeed serious about this, didn't expect that.
Dubbing industry in USA may be smaller, because customers in USA don't accept even dubbed European movies, they have to be completely redone with American actors (e.g. Nikita, Nightwatch, Stieg Larsson trilogy etc.)
Imagine the uproar on Dakka, if Infinity decided to do all future unit names in Spanish only Thank God they are not that arrogant to their international customers.
Yes, PC games in English are special order here in Germany and not readily available in stores.
I noticed you haven't really read my whole post and simply take one tiny aspect and pull it out of its context.
As I've already mentioned, I think it's good that GW translates their publications, rules and such, but is it really necessary to translate the names as well? I noticed that Kendoka has already explained it quite well with his Spiderman example.
I noticed you haven't really read my whole post and simply take one tiny aspect and pull it out of its context.
As I've already mentioned, I think it's good that GW translates their publications, rules and such, but is it really necessary to translate the names as well? I noticed that Kendoka has already explained it quite well with his Spiderman example.
Would you interested in playing "Keisarillinen Kaarti"-army, with exciting unit choices like "Miehistonkuljetusvaunu", "Jalkavakirykmentti" or "Kaukopartio". Their standard weaponry is called "kivaari" and in close combat they use dangerous weapon called "Puukko".
Or would you scratch your head as the words don't mean you anything. (assuming you don't speak finnish)
Christ. This is just nitpicking GW and having a go at them for the sake at having a go at them. People like complaining about GW so much it would seem that they take the smallest possible excuse to do so. Lutharr sums it up nicely in his post above mine.
I have qualms with GW as much as the next man, but this is silly. It is an odd change, and a pain for many foreign speaking countries, I admit, but I'm sure foreign people are smart enough to put zwei and zwei together. I'm not sure it's worth another hate-fest thread.
I noticed you haven't really read my whole post and simply take one tiny aspect and pull it out of its context.
As I've already mentioned, I think it's good that GW translates their publications, rules and such, but is it really necessary to translate the names as well? I noticed that Kendoka has already explained it quite well with his Spiderman example.
Would you interested in playing "Keisarillinen Kaarti"-army, with exciting unit choices like "Miehistonkuljetusvaunu", "Jalkavakirykmentti" or "Kaukopartio". Their standard weaponry is called "kivaari" and in close combat they use dangerous weapon called "Puukko".
Or would you scratch your head as the words don't mean you anything. (assuming you don't speak finnish)
Comics & Characters name is Hämähäkkimies in Finland, the movie titles go by dual titles of "Spider-Man – Hämähäkkimies".
Real names like Peter Parker is/was still Peter Parker, most of the hero names were translated, with few exceptions.
EDIT: Looks like the comics nowadays have Dual titles of "Spider-man - Hämähäkkimies" as well.
Panties in a wad over nothing. A relatively solid release from GW this week, but something needs to be cried over I guess. Are the codex of the various armies in English only, or the regional website, or the BRB? No? Then you don't need to "learn English dude z" to play.
I mean really, when I got into GW, the cover artwork for the warhammer edition that had High Elf vs Gobbos was so awesome to my young mind that it could have been written in Sanskrit and I still would have blown my lawn mowing money on it. I'm sure its the similiar for all of us.
But a non-english speaker is going to see a box with something that stokes his imagination and see that it has an Anglicized name and walk on? Sure. Maybe after seeing the price, but not because its presented in the globally dominant language thats taught in pretty much every industrialized country now.
Anecdotal but still relevant : Did two years in Germany in the early 2000s and played more games of WHFB against people that knew rudimentary English then ones that didn't. And I know for fact alot of frauleins speak English enough for bar chitchat.
It is way past time for Germany and France to wake up. Their countries are slowly becoming irrelevant and their languages are already almost unimportant. Tough.
Also, even though England and the US within 10 years will be poor 3rd world countries their language is here to stay. Simplified English will be the new world language.
Errrr... Germany is anything but becoming irrelevant. Also, Chinese or Spanish/Portuguese is likely to be the world language with the rise of China and South American economies.
It is way past time for Germany and France to wake up. Their countries are slowly becoming irrelevant and their languages are already almost unimportant. Tough.
Also, even though England and the US within 10 years will be poor 3rd world countries their language is here to stay. Simplified English will be the new world language.
Errrr... Germany is anything but becoming irrelevant. Also, Chinese or Spanish/Portuguese is likely to be the world language with the rise of China and South American economies.
China is only 1/6 of the world, the other 5/6 find English a *lot* easier to learn than Chinese. All of Europe, the Americas and Africa already uses the alphabet, and Indians already speak English because of colonial ties...you are kidding yourself if you think that Chinese will dominate in the years to come. If anything it will diminish in importance as the Chinese scurry to learn English, already in Japan they are struggling to get enough to people to learn English, I have no reason to suppose that the same will not happen in China.
Wow, people are always looking for something new about which to be angry at GW. And as expected, a topic like this is already devolving into a weird and often uninformed political science discussion.
Whether or not GW is putting dedicated foreign names on their model kits I should think isn't likely to bother that much of their customer base compared to the more alarming issue for non-English speakers than their starting to publish some books that are "English only" (e.g., Death From The Skies).
BrassScorpion wrote: Wow, people are always looking for something new about which to be angry at GW. And as expected, a topic like this is already devolving into a weird and often uninformed political science discussion.
Whether or not GW is putting dedicated foreign names on their model kits I should think isn't likely to bother that much of their customer base compared to the more alarming issue for non-English speakers than their starting to publish some books that are "English only" (e.g., Death From The Skies).
Having Codex-entry and figure-box use the same name is pretty important.
It makes purchasing matching GW-products much easier.
Could it be possible they are simply printing alternate boxes and instructions region specific past that point? Otherwise it is a bit odd isn't it.
I don't think it would be a big deal if they always had just English, French and Spanish... but to cut 4 languages suddenly is noteworthy, and I expect potentially quite annoying for fans in those respective countries who are used to their material being natively available.
xruslanx wrote: China is only 1/6 of the world, the other 5/6 find English a *lot* easier to learn than Chinese. All of Europe, the Americas and Africa already uses the alphabet, and Indians already speak English because of colonial ties...you are kidding yourself if you think that Chinese will dominate in the years to come. If anything it will diminish in importance as the Chinese scurry to learn English, already in Japan they are struggling to get enough to people to learn English, I have no reason to suppose that the same will not happen in China.
95% of all statistics are totally made up But good to know that the use of a Latin alphabet (there is no such thing as a Kyrillic alphabet in Europe ) and the rarity of Japanese learning English is a proof of why English will soon dominate the world
MajorTom11 wrote: Could it be possible they are simply printing alternate boxes and instructions region specific past that point?
No, German stockists were officially informed about this change. The price list now features German and English names, so that they are able to make a connection between what people want and what people get
I don't understand your post. 5/6 of the world not being Chinese is not something I have pulled out of my arse, it's a fact, checkable in about 5 seconds on wikipedia. Japan struggling to learn English is based on what people who live and work in Japan have told me.
English is already dominating the world. If you want to do business with Africa or India, it will be in English.
xruslanx wrote: I don't understand your post. 5/6 of the world not being Chinese is not something I have pulled out of my arse, it's a fact, checkable in about 5 seconds on wikipedia.
Takes only 5 seconds to check your post that you claimed something different about the 5/6 of mankind, something obviously pulled ...
And good to know that you not only deny the existence of the Kyrillic alphabet in Europe, but of French and Portuguese colonies in Africa as well.
The package my Tesseract Vault came in, which is using the newer style of packaging, has product descriptions in English and no less than 6 other dirty* foreign languages, which I'm guessing are French, German, Italian, Spanish, Japanese and at least one of the Chinese dialects.
The "Warning: Choking Hazard. Small Parts." block on the bottom is in, like, all the languages. All of them. Probably even Klingon* for all I know.
The box image for the Necron Destroyer squadron (which also uses the newer packaging style) on GW's NA site shows descriptions in 7 languages too, but the box images for the new Tac Squads and Sternguard (as we've seen) only use 3 languages.
Perhaps the image Kroothawk and the GW site is currently using is just a mock-up of the packaging, as the product(s) within have yet to be released? Or perhaps they are using more regional-focused packaging from here on? Or, especially since this is a SM release, and likely to be in very high demand, they are using regional manufacturing AND packaging for this release alone?
Nah, thats all silly, clearly GW hates Germany and/or money*.
xruslanx wrote: I don't understand your post. 5/6 of the world not being Chinese is not something I have pulled out of my arse, it's a fact, checkable in about 5 seconds on wikipedia.
Takes only 5 seconds to check your post that you claimed something different about the 5/6 of mankind, something obviously pulled ...
And good to know that you not only deny the existence of the Kyrillic alphabet in Europe, but of French and Portuguese colonies in Africa as well.
I have no idea what you're getting at now...would you like me to admit that I'm a racist? And possibly make some bongo-bongo comments?
The future is in English, whether you like it or not.
This sort of ties back around to the growth issue which came about discussing GW/Hasbro...and also FFG. Hasbro is seeing double digit growth in BRIC countries. FFG is still seeing huge sales growth in localized versions of their products.
Rank Country (or dependent territory) Population Date % of world
population Source
– World 7,108,400,000 September 1, 2013
1 China[8] 1,359,680,000 September 1, 2013 19.1%
2 India 1,233,290,000 September 1, 2013 17.3%
3 United States 316,570,000 September 1, 2013 4.45%
4 Indonesia 237,641,326 May 1, 2010 3.34%
5 Brazil 201,032,714 July 1, 2013 2.83%
I mean, it's from Wikipedia, but he's right. It took about 5 seconds to google.
xruslanx wrote: China is only 1/6 of the world, the other 5/6 find English a *lot* easier to learn than Chinese. All of Europe, the Americas and Africa already uses the alphabet, and Indians already speak English because of colonial ties...you are kidding yourself if you think that Chinese will dominate in the years to come. If anything it will diminish in importance as the Chinese scurry to learn English, already in Japan they are struggling to get enough to people to learn English, I have no reason to suppose that the same will not happen in China.
95% of all statistics are totally made up But good to know that the use of a Latin alphabet (there is no such thing as a Kyrillic alphabet in Europe ) and the rarity of Japanese learning English is a proof of why English will soon dominate the world
I think he may have meant that it's difficult to find enough TEACHERS for the people who want to learn English. Otherwise you're right, what he said about Japan makes no sense.
It's unfortunate when a native speaker isn't really capable of expressing himself properly in his own language, but it's typical of the level of education in the UK these days. Perhaps ESL learners "find English a lot easier to learn than Chinese" because it's so much easier to speak it as well as or better than a native speaker.
BrassScorpion wrote: Wow, people are always looking for something new about which to be angry at GW. And as expected, a topic like this is already devolving into a weird and often uninformed political science discussion.
Whether or not GW is putting dedicated foreign names on their model kits I should think isn't likely to bother that much of their customer base compared to the more alarming issue for non-English speakers than their starting to publish some books that are "English only" (e.g., Death From The Skies).
While in general I agree that this is a tempest in a teacup, it is a little odd for GW to do this, since leaving the names for products in half a dozen languages instead of 2-3 wouldn't cost them any additional money, and cutting them saves them nothing. It's a bit puzzling, but I think it's probably premature to excoriate GW for this.
JB wrote: But they print all boxes with the same text.
You are 100% right. I went and dug out a recent battle box that I won in tournament play. and saw what you were saying to my confusion. I do have GW product that does not have multiple languages. But that is old stuff.
As I have always said, in all fairness if I'm wrong on the topic that I am commenting on, I will come back and address the issue which I am doing now. I was wrong on my line of thought and now going to have to re-evaluate this topic, which is not a bad thing over all.
JB wrote: But they print all boxes with the same text.
You are 100% right. I went and dug out a recent battle box that I won in tournament play. and saw what you were saying to my confusion. I do have GW product that does not have multiple languages. But that is old stuff.
As I have always said, in all fairness if I'm wrong on the topic that I am commenting on, I will come back and address the issue which I am doing now. I was wrong on my line of thought and now going to have to re-evaluate this topic, which is not a bad thing over all.
Thank you for making me see my error. -Adam
Thanks Adam, sorry if my comment came off as a bit abrupt. I am interested in the topic but would like to approach it objectively, which means first trying to understand the facts (such as the current box labeling policy).
Unfortunately the thread is getting a bit heated and off topic, so I'll drop out. It still surprises that GW would make this change and I'm still puzzled as to why since it doesn't appear to cost them anything to keep all seven languages.
As for previous comments of interest, I agree that most of the target demographic of young people (at least in Germany where I have lived) are not sufficiently fluent in English to handle rulebooks, codices, and other supplements if they are English language only (such as Death from the Skies).
Regarding the comment on education in English in Germany (and Austria or Switzerland), it is not required for all students. Our German speaking friends would have to describe the policies of the different countries, states, and school types. It is a tangled web to me. In Germany alone, every state is different, and there are at least five different secondary school types. I'm sure the other countries have similarly diverse educational systems and probably none have compulsory education in English. Yes, you will find certain school types in specific cities or states that require it. However, does 2-3 years of language training make one fluent? I'm skeptical unless one has both motivation and a means to apply the learning. I'm always impressed by those that communicate fluently here on Dakka since I struggle in German language 40K forums.
I'll avoid commenting on the trend of the world towards anything since I get a full serving of that blarney at work. I don't think anyone here is overwrought about GW dropping kit titles for five languages. It's just discussion of a change that is significant for a large number of hobbyists.
Perhaps, I am more sensitive to the continental viewpoint since I do see this topic as a reasonable issue for friendly discussion. Therefore, it is a bit of a shame that we took a left turn away from friendly as people began waving flags, dropping insults, and discussing the future domination of the globe.
About twenty people have said it, so can we just draw a line under it and combine all of their posts with one phrase?
Mountains out of molehills, storms in teacups, translated codexes and rulebooks ensure that nobody really gives a gak about one line on a box, and Kroothawk is about as impartial with regard to GW as Grand Ayatollah Sistani is about Religious preference.
Comics & Characters name is Hämähäkkimies in Finland, the movie titles go by dual titles of "Spider-Man – Hämähäkkimies".
Real names like Peter Parker is/was still Peter Parker, most of the hero names were translated, with few exceptions.
EDIT: Looks like the comics nowadays have Dual titles of "Spider-man - Hämähäkkimies" as well.
Are people not allowed to make observations any more?
Kroot simply makes a post 'hmm interesting, no more foreign language printed on the front of boxes' and then within a few pages it seems to have degenerated into personal, overly-sensitive and defensive posts.
As has been pointed out, this isn't really an issue but I think people are more curious regarding the reasoning behind it (especially as you would have thought the current model of printing every language on a box was most efficient logistically). I suppose a good question might be at this point (although perhaps a little over-cautious) is what might this mean with regards to non-English publications in future?
Well, that simple observation was coupled with a (hopefully tongue-in-cheek) tinfoil hat theory about GW forcing their customers to learn English in order to play... so I'm not surprised at the discussion.
When I read the headline I was hoping for a moment that GW would *finally* get rid of the inane German names for their units they had established in the 90's... but sadly, no.
mattyrm wrote: About twenty people have said it, so can we just draw a line under it and combine all of their posts with one phrase?
Mountains out of molehills, storms in teacups, translated codexes and rulebooks ensure that nobody really gives a gak about one line on a box, and Kroothawk is about as impartial with regard to GW as Grand Ayatollah Sistani is about Religious preference.
This thread has probably run its course really, but sorry, "translated codexes and rulebooks ensure that nobody really gives a gak" simply isn't true anymore. Several Scrolls of Binding for Fantasy, Death from the Skies, and the 40k supplements (all containing rules and thus a little more than irrelevant hobby-content) were not translated anymore. Even the hardback mini rulebook, the large version of which is already translated, is only available in English. Two or three years ago this would have been unthinkable. So, the box issue probably has to be viewed in context.
In my group we have an Iyanden player and a Black Legion player. Both will not buy the supplements in English. I realize you don't care, and neither do we in our group, but GW should care, because they've lost two sure sales. Anecdotal evidence and all, but still.
Also, GW seems to be beginning to fracture their player base considering all the arguments I've witnessed over Death from the Skies at local tournaments, the point of which being the difficulty to solve rules disputes when one side doesn't understand the English wording and the arbiter is less than trustworthy because he's only semi-fluent himself. Yes, those concerns are probably unfounded, but does it really pay for GW to create such arguments in the first place?
Finally, the point has already been made, but what's so difficult to understand about this:
John is 13 years old and wants to start tabletop gaming. His local store carries two games. One choice is Infinity, which in his parallel universe has the core rules in English, but most expansions (which he is told are used regularly by some players in his area) are only in Spanish. Also, all the unit names on the boxes/blisters are Spanish, too, and mean nothing to him. The other choice is Warmachine, where all the materials are in English and he has already taken a fancy to the "Hammersmith" Warjack because it looks and SOUNDS cool.
Which choice is he more likely to make?
And if you were a company trying to sell to John, which publishing model would you copy?
I believe most posters making this "storm in the teacup" are less "OMG GW SO HATES GERMANY!" and more 1.) "Why would they continue to scale-down language support?" and 2.) "Did they think about the possible consequences?"
xruslanx wrote:China is only 1/6 of the world, the other 5/6 find English a *lot* easier to learn than Chinese.
cincydooley wrote:Here we go
Rank Country (or dependent territory) Population Date % of world
population Source
– World 7,108,400,000 September 1, 2013
1 China[8] 1,359,680,000 September 1, 2013 19.1%
2 India 1,233,290,000 September 1, 2013 17.3%
3 United States 316,570,000 September 1, 2013 4.45%
4 Indonesia 237,641,326 May 1, 2010 3.34%
5 Brazil 201,032,714 July 1, 2013 2.83%
I mean, it's from Wikipedia, but he's right. It took about 5 seconds to google.
Doesn't look to me like a certified poll on 5/6 of mankind, if they find Chinese or English easier to learn. Not even close.
Small detail: Many South East Asia countries have a Chinese minority active in trade, e.g. Malaysia and Indonesia.
xruslanx wrote:All of Europe, the Americas and Africa already uses the alphabet
Wrong, see Kyrillic (and Greek) alphabet. Most Eastern Europe countries use Kyrillic.
xruslanx wrote:If you want to do business with Africa or India, it will be in English.
Wrong, as you won't get far with English in former French and Portuguese colonies.
BTW 30% in USA speak Spanish, with Hispanics the fastest growing part of the population.
Tequila Ranger wrote:The package my Tesseract Vault came in, which is using the newer style of packaging, has product descriptions in English and no less than 6 other dirty* foreign languages, which I'm guessing are French, German, Italian, Spanish, Japanese and at least one of the Chinese dialects.
(..)
Perhaps the image Kroothawk and the GW site is currently using is just a mock-up of the packaging, as the product(s) within have yet to be released?.
This change starts with September releases. Just check all new blisters and boxes end of the week.
Allod wrote:This thread has probably run its course really, but sorry, "translated codexes and rulebooks ensure that nobody really gives a gak" simply isn't true anymore. Several Scrolls of Binding for Fantasy, Death from the Skies, and the 40k supplements (all containing rules and thus a little more than irrelevant hobby-content) were not translated anymore. Even the hardback mini rulebook, the large version of which is already translated, is only available in English. Two or three years ago this would have been unthinkable. So, the box issue probably has to be viewed in context.
(...)
I believe most posters making this "storm in the teacup" are less "OMG GW SO HATES GERMANY!" and more 1.) "Why would they continue to scale-down language support?" and 2.) "Did they think about the possible consequences?"
This is a good summary. BTW German names are just an example as one of the biggest markets they offend for no obvious reason and with obvious disadvantages. Chinese and Japanese are removed as well, and both use a different script.
mattyrm wrote: About twenty people have said it, so can we just draw a line under it and combine all of their posts with one phrase?
Mountains out of molehills, storms in teacups, translated codexes and rulebooks ensure that nobody really gives a gak about one line on a box, and Kroothawk is about as impartial with regard to GW as Grand Ayatollah Sistani is about Religious preference.
This thread has probably run its course really, but sorry, "translated codexes and rulebooks ensure that nobody really gives a gak" simply isn't true anymore. Several Scrolls of Binding for Fantasy, Death from the Skies, and the 40k supplements (all containing rules and thus a little more than irrelevant hobby-content) were not translated anymore. Even the hardback mini rulebook, the large version of which is already translated, is only available in English. Two or three years ago this would have been unthinkable. So, the box issue probably has to be viewed in context.
In my group we have an Iyanden player and a Black Legion player. Both will not buy the supplements in English. I realize you don't care, and neither do we in our group, but GW should care, because they've lost two sure sales. Anecdotal evidence and all, but still.
Also, GW seems to be beginning to fracture their player base considering all the arguments I've witnessed over Death from the Skies at local tournaments, the point of which being the difficulty to solve rules disputes when one side doesn't understand the English wording and the arbiter is less than trustworthy because he's only semi-fluent himself. Yes, those concerns are probably unfounded, but does it really pay for GW to create such arguments in the first place?
Finally, the point has already been made, but what's so difficult to understand about this:
John is 13 years old and wants to start tabletop gaming. His local store carries two games. One choice is Infinity, which in his parallel universe has the core rules in English, but most expansions (which he is told are used regularly by some players in his area) are only in Spanish. Also, all the unit names on the boxes/blisters are Spanish, too, and mean nothing to him. The other choice is Warmachine, where all the materials are in English and he has already taken a fancy to the "Hammersmith" Warjack because it looks and SOUNDS cool.
Which choice is he more likely to make?
And if you were a company trying to sell to John, which publishing model would you copy?
I believe most posters making this "storm in the teacup" are less "OMG GW SO HATES GERMANY!" and more 1.) "Why would they continue to scale-down language support?" and 2.) "Did they think about the possible consequences?"
Good post, I just find the bit about Infinity misleading, as the rules, units and books are also available in English, not Spanish only.
Doesn't look to me like a certified poll on 5/6 of mankind, if they find Chinese or English easier to learn. Not even close.
Small detail: Many South East Asia countries have a Chinese minority active in trade, e.g. Malaysia and Indonesia.
Hence, the sinosphere. India has 150 million English speakers already, you think they're all going to learn Chinese too? Or do you think they'll deal with the 50 million Chinese people who speak English?
Do you know how many Chinese speakers there are in India? I can't even find any data on it, let alone how many Africans speak Chinese.
Wrong, see Kyrillic (and Greek) alphabet. Most Eastern Europe countries use Kyrillic.
Ohh you're being needlessly pedandic. Okay, the important parts of Europe all use the Latin alphabet, and Eastern languages are a lot closer to English than they are to Chinese.
Unless you're going to reply suggesting that a Russian would find it easier to learn Chinese than English, don't bother replying.
Wrong, as you won't get far with English in former French and Portuguese colonies.
You will actually. I work with people from those former colonies and English is rather popular.
Are you familiar with the concept of a Lingua Franca? Or do you seriously think that someone in Angola is going to do business with a Russian businessman in Russian, a Chinese businessman in Chinese and a Pakistani businessman in Urdu? They'd all communicate with each other in English.
BTW 30% in USA speak Spanish, with Hispanics the fastest growing part of the population.
As long as we're sprouting pointless facts, I just had a haircut! Therefore my point is valid.
I had four year of french in school, all I can do is ask for the directions to the Eifel Tower and what time it is - and I probably won't know what the hell the nice French person I'm asking is responding. I can't even start guess what the description of unit on GW is supposed to mean.
Most of the players I play don't speak English well, because they either 1) are too young and haven't had a lot of English in school. 2) are too old and were in school before absolutely everybody had to take English one way or another. 3) didn't care about English back in school and failed to pick up any of it.
On top of that you have a lot of people who kind of understand English but have difficulties with complicated words and grammar. GW fudging their grammar more often than not, missing out on their punctuation and using lots of figures of speech doesn't exactly help it. Not everyone went to school in an English-speaking country like I did, so most people do a Google-translator-style translation of the English rules and obviously come to completely different conclusions than a native English speaker.
Every other German, Austrian or Swiss poster I've seen on this forum is a lot better in English than your average German WH40k player. And by a lot, I mean orks to eldar.
Alkasyn wrote: Good post, I just find the bit about Infinity misleading, as the rules, units and books are also available in English, not Spanish only.
Thanks. Regarding Infinity: Since some people seem a bit hung up on the whole "everybody can speak English" theme, I took a previous poster's idea of "What IF Infinity was in Spanish?" to illustrate what the situation German teenagers might find themselves in would look like to an English-speaking teenager.
Do you have a source for "gw fudging their grammar more often than that"? Or is that just another one of those "gw don't proof read codexes" statements?
Comics & Characters name is Hämähäkkimies in Finland, the movie titles go by dual titles of "Spider-Man – Hämähäkkimies".
Real names like Peter Parker is/was still Peter Parker, most of the hero names were translated, with few exceptions.
EDIT: Looks like the comics nowadays have Dual titles of "Spider-man - Hämähäkkimies" as well.
Dear God, that's awful!
How so? Descriptive names tell lot about the character and that is lost, if the target audience doesn't understand their meaning.
Whether it is Spider-Man, Great Unclean One Or Troll Slayer.
Funny actually, I had a kid come up to me in the store last Friday asking me what the price was of Eiland van Bloed, the Dutch version of the WHFB starter. Ask me about Island of Blood and I'll jump to it, but that kid really had me stumped.
xruslanx wrote: Do you have a source for "gw fudging their grammar more often than that"? Or is that just another one of those "gw don't proof read codexes" statements?
Mostly hyperbole. It does happen though, and I remember more than one argument where people mistranslated rules because of strange sentence structures. Even minor grammar mistakes can throw someone with out extended knowledge of a language off track. YMDC is a testament to how unclear rules are and how easy it is to interpret a word in six ways - adding a language barrier in between doesn't exactly make it any better.
I haven't read the entire thread - just first and last pages - so this may be something of a rhetorical question, but.
Has anyone *actually seen* any of the new boxes from one of the omitted countries or had them in their hands? Personally? It may well just be that there are now separate box designs with different languages on them. This wouldn't make much sense if GW handle all their own printing, but if they outsource then they're likely to use printers local to that country, in which case it makes sense to have separate designs. That way you can squeeze more pictures on the back, where all the legally required information is.
BrookM wrote: Funny actually, I had a kid come up to me in the store last Friday asking me what the price was of Eiland van Bloed, the Dutch version of the WHFB starter. Ask me about Island of Blood and I'll jump to it, but that kid really had me stumped.
I really hate it when they translate names into Dutch. I don't mind if the content itself is translated (even though I prefer to read in English, which is weird since I'm a native Dutch speaker). Just be happy they haven't called Warhammer 'Oorlogshamer' yet...
Super Ready wrote: I haven't read the entire thread - just first and last pages - so this may be something of a rhetorical question, but.
Has anyone *actually seen* any of the new boxes from one of the omitted countries or had them in their hands? Personally? It may well just be that there are now separate box designs with different languages on them. This wouldn't make much sense if GW handle all their own printing, but if they outsource then they're likely to use printers local to that country, in which case it makes sense to have separate designs. That way you can squeeze more pictures on the back, where all the legally required information is.
I believe that someone on page 4 stated that they had a new box with all the usual languages on the box (but not on the cover).
Your lesson for today if you choose to accept it is to read the whole of the thread in future or like me read the first, penultimate and last pages then you too can be a smart arse like me!
BrookM wrote: Funny actually, I had a kid come up to me in the store last Friday asking me what the price was of Eiland van Bloed, the Dutch version of the WHFB starter. Ask me about Island of Blood and I'll jump to it, but that kid really had me stumped.
I really hate it when they translate names into Dutch. I don't mind if the content itself is translated (even though I prefer to read in English, which is weird since I'm a native Dutch speaker). Just be happy they haven't called Warhammer 'Oorlogshamer' yet...
We usually recommend the English starter anyway, depending on age, as aside from a fething starter, nothing else is in Dutch, so why the feth bother anyway?
BrookM wrote: Funny actually, I had a kid come up to me in the store last Friday asking me what the price was of Eiland van Bloed, the Dutch version of the WHFB starter. Ask me about Island of Blood and I'll jump to it, but that kid really had me stumped.
I really hate it when they translate names into Dutch. I don't mind if the content itself is translated (even though I prefer to read in English, which is weird since I'm a native Dutch speaker). Just be happy they haven't called Warhammer 'Oorlogshamer' yet...
We usually recommend the English starter anyway, depending on age, as aside from a fething starter, nothing else is in Dutch, so why the feth bother anyway?
What I loved about Dutch media/publishing was that most of the time they wouldn't dub/translate stuff into Dutch. Cartoons, tv shows, and movies stayed in their original languages, meaning people actually learned English for example (I don't believe high school really is the best place to learn a different language). When I go to a bookstore and I want to buy a book that's originally in English, I want to be able to buy that one, not some translated version. Lots of stuff goes lost in translation. A friend of mine, kinda a nutter, is basically learning all sorts of languages, just to be able to read the literature. He learned German to read Kafka, Spanish for Garcia Marquez, and is now learning Russian because he wants to explore Dostoyevsky. Maybe that's a bit insane for most of us, but still...
Now I'm not saying that GW shouldn't translate their content anymore, they should. Go for it, if they can reach those audiences by doing so. But for me personally, I doubt I would have spoken/read/written English as well as I do now if it weren't for all those films/books/shows/cartoons/games/etc that were in English.
That's all nice and well, but not all countries (inhabitants) are skilled in the english language, so translation need to be done, if all the rulebooks would only be in english they could kiss a large market goodby.
Jehan-reznor wrote: That's all nice and well, but not all countries (inhabitants) are skilled in the english language, so translation need to be done, if all the rulebooks would only be in english they could kiss a large market goodby.
I noticed that...especially since you clearly haven't read the rest of my post(s)...
BrookM wrote: Funny actually, I had a kid come up to me in the store last Friday asking me what the price was of Eiland van Bloed, the Dutch version of the WHFB starter. Ask me about Island of Blood and I'll jump to it, but that kid really had me stumped.
I really hate it when they translate names into Dutch. I don't mind if the content itself is translated (even though I prefer to read in English, which is weird since I'm a native Dutch speaker). Just be happy they haven't called Warhammer 'Oorlogshamer' yet...
Can't we find something else to post about than this garbage? So what, maybe GW didn't like the look of the extra wordings
on their products. Get over it.
dlight wrote: Can't we find something else to post about than this garbage? So what, maybe GW didn't like the look of the extra wordings
on their products. Get over it.
This tread is a waste of time.
For the benefit of those here who don't have English as a first language, I should point out that you probably meant 'thread' in that final sentence.
dlight wrote: Can't we find something else to post about than this garbage? So what, maybe GW didn't like the look of the extra wordings
on their products. Get over it.
This tread is a waste of time.
For the benefit of those here who don't have English as a first language, I should point out that you probably meant 'thread' in that final sentence.
*applauds*
Not everyone can speak English, you know. America is not the world.
BrookM wrote: Funny actually, I had a kid come up to me in the store last Friday asking me what the price was of Eiland van Bloed, the Dutch version of the WHFB starter. Ask me about Island of Blood and I'll jump to it, but that kid really had me stumped.
I really hate it when they translate names into Dutch. I don't mind if the content itself is translated (even though I prefer to read in English, which is weird since I'm a native Dutch speaker). Just be happy they haven't called Warhammer 'Oorlogshamer' yet...
There might an interesting discussion about GW's translating policy and quality which might be salvaged from this, but that would probably be better off in Dakka Discussions. As News/Rumor this seems to have run its course...
The box might not have it but I am positive anyone in the hobby can navigate the world wide interwebz and use the site to help guide their purchases or to help pinpoint new boxes.
(Not sure if anyone had checked the site yet, just thought I'd drop this in here if it is in someway helpful).
The box might not have it but I am positive anyone in the hobby can navigate the world wide interwebz and use the site to help guide their purchases or to help pinpoint new boxes.
(Not sure if anyone had checked the site yet, just thought I'd drop this in here if it is in someway helpful).
So what about impulse buys then? Especially if you don't know if your Space Marine Codex can actually field this unit that looks so cool.
Alpharius wrote:What exactly are we debating/arguing about in here now?
We are currently waiting for the official confirmation coming with this weeks releases.
And we are trying to understand, why GW is raising another hurdle to buy their products, this time for foreign language markets.
Veteran Sergeant wrote:You do realize the vast majority of new words in the world over the hundred years are English in origin, right?
Well, American. English is a dead language.
The box might not have it but I am positive anyone in the hobby can navigate the world wide interwebz and use the site to help guide their purchases or to help pinpoint new boxes.
"Dear owner of a foreign language local gaming store: If your customers are confused by the new boxes we provide, just send them to our new, soon to be enlarged webstore. Thanks!"
frozenwastes wrote: I am finding it amusing that the majority of the people who dismiss this as a non-issue are from primarily English speaking countries.
Preeeetttyyyyy much this.
OT:
Also, when did 19.1% became 1/6? If you round it off, it would be closer to 1/5, or is math not relevant anymore?
China is only 1/6 of the world, the other 5/6 find English a *lot* easier to learn than Chinese.
I'm assuming English is your primary language and you were raised by English-speaking people so it's natural for you to find English easier to learn.
I have been raised by non-English speaking people and I learned English as my secondary language. I'm currently trying to learn Mandarin (and Japanese, but that's another thing entirely) and it is easier to learn than English. Maybe you don't think about it because you were raised in an English speaking environment, but English has weird grammar rules with exceptions to exceptions (seriously, more than one "house" is "houses" but more than one "mouse"... "mice"? And why are you "on" a train when you're clearly "in" it?!). Have you ever tried looking at it from a non-English speaker's perspective? I mean in this very thread it seems to me that native English speakers are having a hard time with English (hats off to you for pointing that out, Pacific!)
TLDR: English is a hard language to learn. We're forced to learn it because it's everywhere but to a non-English speaker like me who have learned or are learning other languages, those languages are easier. And Mandarin is a fething complicated language, but English is worse.
Yeah, people exposed to different phonemes than those present in English can often grasp the tone differences in Mandarin far more easily than native English speakers. The sounds of the language you grow up with have a massive impact on what languages are easier and harder to learn. And then add in that English does not have consistent rules as it is a amalgam and bastardization of a bunch of other languages.
The times I've been to Europe, I've noticed that many, many products have a huge variety of languages on them. It's really, really strange to remove them.
I am a native English speaker, and I also know Japanese, and have studied Chinese and Russian as well. I would say that, for most native speakers of Indo-European languages (almost every European language, plus Indian subcontinent languages, Farsi and related central Asian languages and more) Chinese is certainly much easier than Japanese. And Russian is somewhat easier than Japanese, but maybe as hard as Chinese (though not to Slavic native speakers like, say, Serbians or Czechs).
That said, I think it is puzzling that GW has done this, for the reason I mentioned before: it doesn't save them money to remove the foreign text, and doesn't lose them money to keep it. It's possible that it might lose them money to remove it, if it does make the language barrier a problem for potential customers.
Could it be an issue of unexpected demand? Perhaps for the US and UK market, they're going with more minimalistic boxes and they simply ran out of the boxes with all the different languages on them and are shipping things out with the English & French only boxes? Or perhaps it's entirely accidental.
It's such a nonsensical decision given that they a) translate the stuff anyway for their online store b) already have the design work done with boxes with multiple languages and c) can get a better price per box from the printer if they're all one batch of the same thing.
Eh. It does make a kind of sense if you realize that they might just want people to be able to identify things based on pictures or to utilize their website more.
Hopefully they'll keep the multiple languages along one of the box edges for those who need to look at them. I know people buying gifts might not know the army well enough to identify them by sight. I know at one local store there are people coming in looking for a gift and aren't sure about the difference between Warhammer and Warhammer 40k and Warmachine. Now add in products that are labeled in another language.
"Stern" as in your rear, not "stern" as in strict. Contrast to the Vanguard Veterans, who are in the vanguard...
I don't believe Sternguard is a traditional term in English. An army is led by the Van (guard), but the men at the back are the rearguard, not the sternguard, which as you said is a nautical term.
I realise marines are sort of nautical in theme, but for consistency the Vanguard should be called the Bowguard or the Prowguard as bow and prow refer to the forward parts of a ship.
Okay I just looked this up, but vanguard comes from medieval French Avant-garde which raises the question why the Vanguard aren't called Avante-garde in French since the word came from them originally. Instead they're called Veteran assault marines. Of course it being 40k and everything stays the same or goes backward, maybe avante-garde would send the wrong message.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
dlight wrote: Can't we find something else to post about than this garbage? So what, maybe GW didn't like the look of the extra wordings
on their products. Get over it.
This tread is a waste of time.
It's fulfilling its purpose well, it's going round and round.
Jehan-reznor wrote: That's all nice and well, but not all countries (inhabitants) are skilled in the english language, so translation need to be done, if all the rulebooks would only be in english they could kiss a large market goodby.
I noticed that...especially since you clearly haven't read the rest of my post(s)...
Sorry, English is difficult to comprehend.
In other words; Miljaar ik had die laatste zinnen niet gezien. potjandorie!
Jehan-reznor wrote: That's all nice and well, but not all countries (inhabitants) are skilled in the english language, so translation need to be done, if all the rulebooks would only be in english they could kiss a large market goodby.
I noticed that...especially since you clearly haven't read the rest of my post(s)...
Sorry, English is difficult to comprehend.
In other words; Miljaar ik had die laatste zinnen niet gezien. potjandorie!
Talking like Urbanus does not excuse you from quoting out context.
Death from the Skies is only available in English.
All digital publications are only available in English.
All supplements so far are only available in English.
The new mini rulebook (!) is only available in English.
Good observation. Also the add-on codizes are all in English...
And it will get fewer. Since the english versions still sold quite well in Germany they will do less translations. The original German translation team has been disbanded for quite some time and now what is left moves back to Nottingham these days. If the French, Italian or Spanish markets ar an indicator of what to come than German versions will be quite rare in the not so far future.
Alpharius wrote:English harder than Mandarin Chinese?
I might have to close this thread now...!
The Chinese language itself is quite simple once you have an ear for different pronounciations (less grammar, more context). It is the script that is the killer for foreigners.
frozenwastes wrote:Could it be an issue of unexpected demand? Perhaps for the US and UK market, they're going with more minimalistic boxes and they simply ran out of the boxes with all the different languages on them and are shipping things out with the English & French only boxes?
They ran out of languages ? No, same boxes and blisters for everyone.
Duncan_Idaho wrote:The original German translation team has been disbanded for quite some time and now what is left moves back to Nottingham these days. If the French, Italian or Spanish markets ar an indicator of what to come than German versions will be quite rare in the not so far future.
And the power-shrinking of GW continues. Only thing we can hope is that GW survives the 2 last years of Tom Kirby, the Götterdämmerung, before some common sense and standard economic wisdom returns to the higher management.
To be honest, I'll personally see to the deaths of the newest French translation team. They went ahead and tried fixing things that weren't broken, getting us new lame terms for no apparent reasons.
Once you get the difference between the tones, Mandarin is easy peasy. Writing Mandarin on the other hand... that's another kettle of fish.
I actually find Japanese the easiest to learn because it has very simple rules and the pronunciations are the same as Tagalog (except for the r/l). I've heard people telling me French and German are very hard languages to learn, too but I don't have experiences in them.
But for a non-native speaker, English is very hard to learn. And I have the advantage of being semi-exposed in it, because everyone and their grandma here has English as a second language and at worst can speak smatterings of it.
Only native English speakers think that English is easy, and yet you can see a lot of them misusing words. I don't think it's because most of them are idiots (but I'll give it to you that some of them most definitely are): it's because English has so many rules that you'll definitely gonna miss a few. Saying things like "just learn English or don't play the game" just reeks of arrogance and ethnocentrism. imagine how American/British/Australian Infinity players would feel if the rules are just available in Spanish and you need to learn the language in order to play, and when asked for a translation the Spanish players would tell them "well, why don't YOU learn Spanish or quit playing?".
Back on topic, I'm not too affected by this change given the fact that I am fluent (I think?) in English. And even if if say, I can't speak English, it would not be that much of a hindrance to me if i really want to buy it. But I might feel a bit alienated about the change especially if it was available in my native language in the past and now it's gone. Again with the Infinity what-if scenario, how would a native English speaker feel if all the units are named and labelled in Spanish? Those who truly love the models will buy them anyway, but I would surmise that they'll feel a bit... off (for lack of a better word) that it's not in English.
In the end, for me it's not that big of a deal but it'll bug me for a moment.
cadbren wrote: I don't believe Sternguard is a traditional term in English. An army is led by the Van (guard), but the men at the back are the rearguard, not the sternguard, which as you said is a nautical term.
I realise marines are sort of nautical in theme, but for consistency the Vanguard should be called the Bowguard or the Prowguard as bow and prow refer to the forward parts of a ship.
The term "rearguard" is rarely used in English these days. It's not the 18th century anymore, and the term "rear" in modern military parlance has a negative connotation (non-combat support troops are described as being "in the rear with the gear" and there is the charming acronym "REMF" or "Rear Echelon Mother Fether"). Outside of a military context, the idiom "fighting a rearguard action" means to fight a battle that has already been lost. As a result, "rearguard" would be a pretty terrible name for toy soldiers designed primarily for sale in an English-speaking market. However, "Stern" means unrelenting and harsh. It also means the aft-most portion of a ship. That's a lot more evocative and flavorful for an unyielding unit of veterans experienced in fighting at range.
Although "vanguard" isn't used too much in modern military parlance, its common English usage is very dynamic and positive. It suggests boldness and being at the forefront. It's a pretty good name for toy soldiers designed primarily for sale in an English-speaking market. "Prowguard" and "Bowguard"? Not so much.
Of course, we're talking about made up names for models that depict completely fictional units in a completely fictional military organization. Consistency and tradition are kind of beside the point. I mean, in the real world, "Dreadnought" and "Ironclad" are terms for warships, not heavily armed combat cyborgs.
cadbren wrote: Okay I just looked this up, but vanguard comes from medieval French Avant-garde which raises the question why the Vanguard aren't called Avante-garde in French since the word came from them originally. Instead they're called Veteran assault marines. Of course it being 40k and everything stays the same or goes backward, maybe avante-garde would send the wrong message.
No. That's not why. It's because, over the past two centuries, "avant-garde" has taken on a new meaning in French, one that describes a certain approach to art and culture. Using the term "avant-garde" would call to mind images of radical Bohemians experimenting at the fringes of the art world, which probably isn't the association GW is going for.
Jehan-reznor wrote: That's all nice and well, but not all countries (inhabitants) are skilled in the english language, so translation need to be done, if all the rulebooks would only be in english they could kiss a large market goodby.
I noticed that...especially since you clearly haven't read the rest of my post(s)...
Sorry, English is difficult to comprehend.
In other words; Miljaar ik had die laatste zinnen niet gezien. potjandorie!
Talking like Urbanus does not excuse you from quoting out context.
frozenwastes wrote: Yeah, people exposed to different phonemes than those present in English can often grasp the tone differences in Mandarin far more easily than native English speakers. The sounds of the language you grow up with have a massive impact on what languages are easier and harder to learn. And then add in that English does not have consistent rules as it is a amalgam and bastardization of a bunch of other languages.
The times I've been to Europe, I've noticed that many, many products have a huge variety of languages on them. It's really, really strange to remove them.
Products sold in the UK very rarely have multiple languages on them. The ones that do tend to be the cheap/low market end, which is a possible reason GW want to remove languages from the box. It does look a *bit* tacky, but I couldn't really care either way.
Can't GW just milk this out? Have different box art for different regions of the world. Meaning he German box will have the English and German names on there and a specific picture on the front. The French box has a different picture on the front and then French and English text.
That way you might have those nutty collectors who will try to collect all the different versions of the boxes.
cadbren wrote: I don't believe Sternguard is a traditional term in English. An army is led by the Van (guard), but the men at the back are the rearguard, not the sternguard, which as you said is a nautical term.
I realise marines are sort of nautical in theme, but for consistency the Vanguard should be called the Bowguard or the Prowguard as bow and prow refer to the forward parts of a ship.
The term "rearguard" is rarely used in English these days. It's not the 18th century anymore, and the term "rear" in modern military parlance has a negative connotation (non-combat support troops are described as being "in the rear with the gear" and there is the charming acronym "REMF" or "Rear Echelon Mother Fether"). Outside of a military context, the idiom "fighting a rearguard action" means to fight a battle that has already been lost. As a result, "rearguard" would be a pretty terrible name for toy soldiers designed primarily for sale in an English-speaking market. However, "Stern" means unrelenting and harsh. It also means the aft-most portion of a ship. That's a lot more evocative and flavorful for an unyielding unit of veterans experienced in fighting at range.
Either way, Sternguard is an awful name. It's effectively an official form of 'Angry Marines' if you go with the dour, strict meaning of stern. If you go with the nautical term then they become the rear echelon troops, the reserves.
If you want to evoke them in the sense of household troops who are only used in the most dire of circumstances, then call them something like the Chapter Guard, but better.
DrSchwartz wrote: If there are any Eldar players out there who have one of those new boxes then maybe they could answer it.
Sorry, no Eldar players have the new September Space Marine boxes yet. Neither do Space Marine players. Changes start with September releases.
xruslanx wrote: Products sold in the UK very rarely have multiple languages on them. The ones that do tend to be the cheap/low market end, which is a possible reason GW want to remove languages from the box. It does look a *bit* tacky, but I couldn't really care either way.
German products usually have multiple languages on them, because they are so good that other countries want to buy them as well
As a Dakka reader, I'm used to most english names to units (most, not all), but this can be a trouble when facing the GW preferred target client (kids and teens). Even lots of adults can't read in English, and this policy punish them.
Also, using previous examples: a German dude searching for a "scriptor" for his kid in GW's website is redirected to a product which picture says "librarian" but is described (in German) as a scriptor. This doesn't match. He can hesitate and quit without buying.
I think, boxes should be named, at least, in every language that has its own codex (using the same box, of course). If there is not Bulgarian codex, I understand there is not Bulgarian named box***, but if there is Spanish Codex, I would like to have Spanish named boxes. Hope this doesn't lead to just English products.
And finally, I liked to learn units in other languages, but this is less important (love my Symbionten/Genoraptor box!!).
And to those that defend that picture says enough, let's remove every name from boxes.
***Note: the author doesn't have anything against Bulgarian codices. In fact, the author would like to see codices translated to every language, even Sanskrit.
cadbren wrote: Either way, Sternguard is an awful name. It's effectively an official form of 'Angry Marines' if you go with the dour, strict meaning of stern. If you go with the nautical term then they become the rear echelon troops, the reserves.
If you want to evoke them in the sense of household troops who are only used in the most dire of circumstances, then call them something like the Chapter Guard, but better.
"Stern" and "dour" are mostly synonymous, but they do have different connotations. "They thought he would break under questioning, but he was made of sterner stuff than that." "The judge was stern, but fair." "The government is introducing stern new measures to deal with piracy." That's how the term "stern" is usually used. Substitute "angry" or "dour" and those formulations don't work. "Stern" may refer to the aft-most portion of the ship, but at least it's still on the ship, so the term doesn't really suggest "rear echelon".
Like I said, I think the term is pretty evocative and flavorful, in a way that "Chapter Guard, but better" probably isn't and "rearguard" definitely isn't.
That points to one of the problems with translating things. Whether you or I personally like the term, it's clear that the designers were going for a certain vibe. The French name on the box is "squad of supporting veterans," which is pretty bland in any language. It's a really poor translation. While it would be easy for me to simply say that GW fails at translation, people who are fluent enough in a language to translate stuff at even that level don't come cheap, people who are fluent enough to do it well are even more expensive. Especially when it comes to more technical writing, like the kind that goes into rulebooks. Add to that the cost of printing rulebooks and employing customer service personnel who can field questions and deal with issues in different languages, and those costs add up quickly. People have been getting a bit indignant that GW is closing the door on foreign customers (which is probably true), but they just might not have the resources to translate the game into several foreign-language markets and provide the necessary support.
Either way, Sternguard is an awful name. It's effectively an official form of 'Angry Marines' if you go with the dour, strict meaning of stern. If you go with the nautical term then they become the rear echelon troops, the reserves.
If you want to evoke them in the sense of household troops who are only used in the most dire of circumstances, then call them something like the Chapter Guard, but better.
It is an awful name... if you don't know what stern means. But in reality, stern means uncompromising, strict, tough, rather than angry - and bringing up the rear doesn't make them rear echelon troops, it makes them like the triarii, the toughest, oldest troops who you rely on in a crisis.
I wonder if it's anything to do with changes to the translation team? I know the Japanese stuff used to be done by a Japanese woman in Nottingham, maybe it's a change in that regard? Staff have been reduced in other areas, although that wouldn't stop them paying £50 to get a list of words translated so perhaps is unlikely to be the reason..
Couldn't it just be a preview of the box before the languages have been added?
But for a non-native speaker, English is very hard to learn. And I have the advantage of being semi-exposed in it, because everyone and their grandma here has English as a second language and at worst can speak smatterings of it.
It was only when teaching for a couple of years overseas that I realised what a bloody awkward language English is! The number of different rules involved regularly sends foreign learners into the depths of despair. From language teaching professionals I've been told this is because of the number of influences that it has (i.e. the number of countries that 'visited' the UK over the past 2000 years, and which all introduced elements into the local lingo). Chinese is difficult for a similar reason, as it's an old language with many influences that has evolved over time. Newer languages, like Korean, (which was essentially constructed because Chinese was such a mish-mash) are far more like a mathematical formula in how they work, and far easier to learn as a result.
Malika2 wrote: Can't GW just milk this out? Have different box art for different regions of the world. Meaning he German box will have the English and German names on there and a specific picture on the front. The French box has a different picture on the front and then French and English text.
That way you might have those nutty collectors who will try to collect all the different versions of the boxes.
that would be hugely expensive for no real benefit. Either multi lingual or english only, they'd still be much better off with just one box per product.
Youngblood13 wrote: People have been getting a bit indignant that GW is closing the door on foreign customers (which is probably true), but they just might not have the resources to translate the game into several foreign-language markets and provide the necessary support.
If this is the reason, GW must be in a dire state indeed. My international clients certainly don't have GW's turnover and usually shell out the few thousand bucks for translations (of legal documents exceeding a codex's length by far) without a flinch if they are necessary.
I'd still assume it's part of their ongoing crusade to recapture their IP from the infidels, but then again, maybe they've finally run out of other costs to cut in order to prop up their profit.
cadbren wrote: Either way, Sternguard is an awful name. It's effectively an official form of 'Angry Marines' if you go with the dour, strict meaning of stern. If you go with the nautical term then they become the rear echelon troops, the reserves.
If you want to evoke them in the sense of household troops who are only used in the most dire of circumstances, then call them something like the Chapter Guard, but better.
"Stern" and "dour" are mostly synonymous, but they do have different connotations. "They thought he would break under questioning, but he was made of sterner stuff than that." "The judge was stern, but fair." "The government is introducing stern new measures to deal with piracy." That's how the term "stern" is usually used.
Yeah thanks, I'm quite au fait with what the word means, and it still makes an awful name. What next, the Grit Squad? The Brute Squad?
Youngblood13 wrote: People have been getting a bit indignant that GW is closing the door on foreign customers (which is probably true), but they just might not have the resources to translate the game into several foreign-language markets and provide the necessary support.
If this is the reason, GW must be in a dire state indeed. My international clients certainly don't have GW's turnover and usually shell out the few thousand bucks for translations (of legal documents exceeding a codex's length by far) without a flinch if they are necessary.
I'd still assume it's part of their ongoing crusade to recapture their IP from the infidels, but then again, maybe they've finally run out of other costs to cut in order to prop up their profit.
They seem to be about "the brand" these days. They may feel that by having set names for their product it makes it them easier to identify from a marketing perspective. If everyone is talking about 'Space Marines' and 'Sternguard' rather than local language variations, it makes those product identities stronger. It's not about ignoring other languages, but about having a common set of terms that everyone knows, kind of how the scientific community relies heavily on latin and greek words to provide a common framework for scientists from around the world to discuss technical details.
BrookM wrote:Aye, there is no profit to be had in a box for every country or demograph.
But there is guaranteed less profit, if 80% of the German, Spanish, Chinese and Japanese customers can't read the content of the boxes and blisters anymore.
Youngblood13 wrote:People have been getting a bit indignant that GW is closing the door on foreign customers (which is probably true), but they just might not have the resources to translate the game into several foreign-language markets and provide the necessary support.
Shipping is even more expensive. Maybe GW should sell their products only in the Nottingham area.
BTW the names of the units already exist and translation work on them is done, GW just can't be bothered to print them on the products anymore.
Also, GW has so much money they can't find a use for, they have to give it to the shareholders. This is the official line in their business report.
BrookM wrote:Aye, there is no profit to be had in a box for every country or demograph.
But there is guaranteed less profit, if 80% of the German, Spanish, Chinese and Japanese customers can't read the content of the boxes and blisters anymore.
So 80% of German, Spanish, Chinese, and Japanese customers can't read English?
Okay, I get that some of us dislike GW, but aren't we treading across the border into Sillytown? I mean, we still know what's in the box. Or is there a larger point I'm missing?
So besides all of this back and forth on rudeness, has anyone thought to include other companies that do not include foreign languages on the boxes?
Why is it just about GW? PRIVATEER PRESS doesn't include foreign languages on the front of boxes, nor does Soda Pop Miniatures. I am sure there are other companies...just checked Infinity...same thing. So what is the big deal that it is in English? My initial reaction to the first 3 pages is that this a renewed attack on GW...yet again. I guess since it is a new month it is necessary to start GW bashing. Is it just taboo to talk bad about Warmachine and Hordes like people do with GW?
I see all too often the complaints against GW can be made about many miniature companies. Perhaps that is what is needed is a Privateer Press bashing thread, complaining about the following: A few bad models, odd rules, one sided tournament play, prices (yep prices) and a new one I just learned...no foreign languages on the box!!
Ive got a Psyc paper coming up, maybe I should look into this as a possible topic.
Father Gabe wrote: So besides all of this back and forth on rudeness, has anyone thought to include other companies that do not include foreign languages on the boxes?
Why is it just about GW? PRIVATEER PRESS doesn't include foreign languages on the front of boxes, nor does Soda Pop Miniatures. I am sure there are other companies...just checked Infinity...same thing. So what is the big deal that it is in English? My initial reaction to the first 3 pages is that this a renewed attack on GW...yet again. I guess since it is a new month it is necessary to start GW bashing. Is it just taboo to talk bad about Warmachine and Hordes like people do with GW?
I see all too often the complaints against GW can be made about many miniature companies. Perhaps that is what is needed is a Privateer Press bashing thread, complaining about the following: A few bad models, odd rules, one sided tournament play, prices (yep prices) and a new one I just learned...no foreign languages on the box!!
Ive got a Psyc paper coming up, maybe I should look into this as a possible topic.
I was going to make that point, but figured it would be considered "threadcrapping" by some because it originated from me. Thanks for making a very applicable point.
Father Gabe wrote: So besides all of this back and forth on rudeness, has anyone thought to include other companies that do not include foreign languages on the boxes?
Why is it just about GW? PRIVATEER PRESS doesn't include foreign languages on the front of boxes, nor does Soda Pop Miniatures. I am sure there are other companies...just checked Infinity...same thing. So what is the big deal that it is in English? My initial reaction to the first 3 pages is that this a renewed attack on GW...yet again. I guess since it is a new month it is necessary to start GW bashing. Is it just taboo to talk bad about Warmachine and Hordes like people do with GW?
I see all too often the complaints against GW can be made about many miniature companies. Perhaps that is what is needed is a Privateer Press bashing thread, complaining about the following: A few bad models, odd rules, one sided tournament play, prices (yep prices) and a new one I just learned...no foreign languages on the box!!
Ive got a Psyc paper coming up, maybe I should look into this as a possible topic.
Did any of those three ever offer foreign language names on their product boxes? If not then it's apples to oranges. This isn't about GW not having it when they didn't have it to begin with, it's about them removing it when they already have the translations and so no real reason to do so.
Have we confirmed that the translations are not on the back?
Have we confirmed that there is not a different printed box for non-English speaking countries? Can someone from another country (Germany/France) take a picture of an actual box sold in their country to confirm?
Finally, once again, what difference does it make if an English speaking company decides to remove foreign language off the front of the box? The image speaks for it. The image shows what is in the box, in relation to what is on the website, in relation to what is in the codex/army book.
This thread is a GW bashing one. The originator should have done full research, like what has been discussed in the thread, before posting it. Very irresponsible on his part. If you are going to report on something like this, provide all the information, instead of creating a hate-bashing thread that takes a life of its own. Disappointed in Kroothawk, I expected better out of him.
Father Gabe wrote: So besides all of this back and forth on rudeness, has anyone thought to include other companies that do not include foreign languages on the boxes?
Why is it just about GW? PRIVATEER PRESS doesn't include foreign languages on the front of boxes, nor does Soda Pop Miniatures. I am sure there are other companies...just checked Infinity...same thing. So what is the big deal that it is in English? My initial reaction to the first 3 pages is that this a renewed attack on GW...yet again. I guess since it is a new month it is necessary to start GW bashing. Is it just taboo to talk bad about Warmachine and Hordes like people do with GW?
I see all too often the complaints against GW can be made about many miniature companies. Perhaps that is what is needed is a Privateer Press bashing thread, complaining about the following: A few bad models, odd rules, one sided tournament play, prices (yep prices) and a new one I just learned...no foreign languages on the box!!
Ive got a Psyc paper coming up, maybe I should look into this as a possible topic.
Privateer Press does'nt allowed a "multi-language" site, nor any others. They assume they are english and that's the point. They don't pretend to hide behind a "multi-nationalism" market. If you clearly look at Privateer Press, they are in process for translating books in Spanish, which is a great idea. It take alot of ressources to start building a multi-language game. It's still far from being able to select your language on the site. Privateer Press and GW are not comparable. Yes they are miniature games, but the comparasion stop there. Compare an Orange with another Orange.
The point is why GW have a multi-language site base on nationality, if at the end all boxes will be printed in english. They have an international market, they aim for it. The thing is why when I go on a GW site, I have to select "Canada" (or Poland, or Russia etc.) They already did the job, it was like that before on all boxes. It is pointed it out on GW, because they place themself as the "top quality" miniature producer all around the world.
I am not in the "Protect my language" clan nor I am in the "Play it in english" group. I simply point a contradiction on the attempt of GW to hit the international market with english (and only english) product. They pretend themself playing in the major league, they need to simply act for it.
Agreed now on the Privateer Press. However, looking at several of the foreign language sites on GW s page shows language based codexes, descriptions and names for each product (in that native language) with associated models and box art.
Are people complaining because they think non-English speaking/reading players cannot (or do not) look at the GW site (native language) see the model/box art with description and not figure out what they are trying to buy? Give non-English speaking/reading people a little credit with their ability to comprehend what they read online, in the codex and associate with box art.
I too am not in the "Protect my language" clan, etc. My point is mainly, it shouldn't matter if it is removed from the cover of the box, because it is on the back! I just checked my newest box (space marine bike squadron) and my newest blister (space marine lord executioner captain which has it on the front). So what if it is not on the front? Guess what? The instructions are in a variety of languages...so it doesn't matter if it is not on the front of the gosh darn box.
I should also point out it is on the front of the bike squadron box as well. Additionally, tomorrow I will go by my local GW store, ask my the manager if I can take a picture of the back of the newer boxes (since the time of the new bike squadron box), and post it here tomorrow to show if the newer box does or does not include foreign languages.
i don't see the big deal, but i don't see see the reason for GW to remove something that they already had...
i will dearly miss the Italian translation...
please don't take away my Lascannoni...
honestly, ever since i was 5 or 6 six years old, i have always given people pictures of the products i want as gifts...
remember pouring over photos in the Sears catalogue, and giving the page to your mom, with all the right G.I. Joe figures circled so she didn't accidentaly buy you a second Snake Eyes instead of a Beachhead???
it's even easier now...
i just send an email with the direct link to the product's page...
now they have a pic on their phone to show the guy at the store...
as a guy who has spent his whole life travelling the world, and learning the local language, i have to say that, in my experience, the first words to make the crossover into other languages are product and brand names...
here in Mexico, Spanglish is big, but it's mostly proper names...
they don't call Facebook "Libro de la Cara", they call it bloody Facebook...
they rarely throw English words in that are not brand names, or product names...
even in American English we say Kleenex instead of tissue, most of the time, Band-Aid instead of plaster, and Q-tip instead of cotton wool on a stick...
now, the rulebook issue is a real drag, and seems like a much bigger deal...
one thing i will admit, no matter how easy i find it to learn the local language wherever i live, i can't really read any of them...
conversation is easy, but reading is so much harder, as there is no context, or visual clues, to help you understand and learn...
languages are much easier for me to learn by experience than rules, and no sounds to mimic...
finally, i admire anyone who has learned English...
it is one mixed up crazy language, with the most acceptions to the rules of any language i've experienced...
The most extensive catalog of the world’s languages, generally taken to be as authoritative as any, is that of Ethnologue (published by SIL International), whose detailed classified list as of 2009 included 6,909 distinct languages.
I was going to make that point, but figured it would be considered "threadcrapping" by some because it originated from me. Thanks for making a very applicable point.
No, it's a solid point regardless of who makes it.
Privateer hasn't done what it should have to break into markets that don't have English as their first language. They've actually been crappy at even supporting the other widely spoken languages in the US like Spanish. I don't know what independant stores in Quebec have done to comply with French language laws on Privateer's products. Maybe they put a sticker on them or something, or just hope no one notices.
I wonder if there is a blog on a chinese website where some bored chinese gamer started a thread complaining of the injustices that chinese & mandarin are written on the boxes and not all races and/or languages are represented on his new box of minis....
Or maybe, just maybe, he is focused on the actual game itself, and putting his minis together....
krazynadechukr wrote: I wonder if there is a blog on a chinese website where some bored chinese gamer started a thread complaining of the injustices that chinese & mandarin are written on the boxes and not all races and/or languages are represented on his new box of minis....
Or maybe, just maybe, he is focused on the actual game itself, and putting his minis together....
all 6,909 of them???
that would be some busy box art...
we would at least learn how to say Space Marine in Swahili...
I'm not sure if this point has already been made, but the Japanese names are straight phonetic transcriptions of the English names - even when there are perfectly equivalent terms in Japanese. This is standard practice in Japan though. If English spelling wasn't so idiosyncratic, with so many mystifying exceptions, then putting it into the Japanese phonetic script (known as katakana) would be redundant (since any Japanese person who's been through even basic education is familiar with the Roman alphabet).
I was going to make that point, but figured it would be considered "threadcrapping" by some because it originated from me. Thanks for making a very applicable point.
Nice martyr act, friend. Want any help with those nails?
BrookM wrote:Aye, there is no profit to be had in a box for every country or demograph.
But there is guaranteed less profit, if 80% of the German, Spanish, Chinese and Japanese customers can't read the content of the boxes and blisters anymore.
So 80% of German, Spanish, Chinese, and Japanese customers can't read English?
I call shenanigans on this statement.
I wouldn't. If I stood outside one of my local GW stores and asked random people passing by whether they understand a random paragraph out of an English BRB, one out of five would be a pretty good quota.
This was a thread about GW removing already existing foreign-language product names from their box covers while at the same time not translating many rule sources for the first time in ca. 20 years.
It only became a "bashing" thread when some people chose to ignore the news bit and avoid the accompanying discussion with insightful remarks like "Who cares?" and "What does it matter?" in order to start another haters vs white knights joust.
Father Gabe wrote:The originator should have done full research, like what has been discussed in the thread, before posting it. Very irresponsible on his part. If you are going to report on something like this, provide all the information, instead of creating a hate-bashing thread that takes a life of its own. Disappointed in Kroothawk, I expected better out of him.
An official GW statement was enough for me. Disappointing, right?
krazynadechukr wrote: The most extensive catalog of the world’s languages, generally taken to be as authoritative as any, is that of Ethnologue (published by SIL International), whose detailed classified list as of 2009 included 6,909 distinct languages.
That being said....see pics...
That do not look like September releases to me, correct?
So if the change starts with September, what do pics of June releases prove?
People have been getting a bit indignant that GW is closing the door on foreign customers (which is probably true), but they just might not have the resources to translate the game into several foreign-language markets and provide the necessary support.
Believe me, they can afford it, but if people are dumb enough to switch language and they can save money by this, their controllers decided that one can also get rid of the other translated stuff for the future.
Again, thwe following is facts:
> All German dealers got informed that the change will take place.
> Sub-codizes beginning with the Eldar codex and the flyer-book are no longer translated into German.
> The mini-rulebook will not be available in German
Each of them seen fo itself might not be so alarming, but together they clearly show where the boat is headed.
Also, quite some can read English, but in their free-time they want to relax and use their native tongue.
The german-language market note only does include Belgium, Luxemburg, Germany, Switzerland and Austria but also quite some of the nordic and eastern states cause they know they will never get a version in their language and so use the German they learned at school
so we are talking about a market with over 120+ million people... rather stupid to not include such a market.
I can confirm now that German stores get all new release boxes without German/Italian/Spanish/Chinese/Japanese names on ANY side of the box.
The boxes and blisters only feature English and French (the latter is mandatory for sales in Canada).
On the other hand one side is reserved for warning about small parts in 25 languages. Also in 5 languages: Contains x miniatures etc, Copyright claim in English and French.
Seems I didn't make this up or misread the official statement to stockists.
Any comments, Father Gabe?
How unexpected. Totally not like several people predicted on page 1 or so.
But who cares - parents can always resort to buying boxes that might or might not be the right thing and then compare the box art with pics on the internet at home. Am I doing this right?
My father is pretty fluent in English (he lives in Canada), and still manages to get the wrong boxes. Also, parents coming to GW stores alone usually ask the store clerk for opinion, and we all know that they are definitely going to end up with the most expensive, least sold box that might or might not be of the army the offspring actually owns, including WHFB armies for 40k players and vice versa.
I can't believe this is still going on. All this complaining on Dakka isn't going to fix this, you have to go to the source, and bitch at them for dropping the language. I'm sure GW didn't do it just to piss off everyone, they had a reason, be it costs or something else.
Kroothawk, if what you say is true about its mandatory for French because of some Canada law, contact your Government, and see if you can't get a law in place requiring German on everything sold in Germany. I'm sure if you ask on Dakka, or at local stores, someone knows a lawyer and they can explain how to go about getting it done.
Seriously though, if there's no dedicated gaming store nearby (which is the usual case for most of Austria), you have to buy from a toy store where you're lucky if the clerk even remembers that they carry something called "Warhammer" and where the shelf is.
JB wrote:
For those who may not remember, GW's usual practice is to print the titles in six different languages on every kit. That covers most of the world that has both a lot of disposable income and a lot of disposable time, though it was still a slap in the face of many of the European countries that have large numbers of gamers (Poland and Russia come to mind).
A slap in the face? It's not like they can translate it into every language out there. The box would be a huge jumble of text, when what they're trying to sell is the giant picture on the front of the little plastic dudes inside.
The product is made by an English Speaking company. There are segments of the American market that buys toys from Japan, and the Japanese don't bother two write everything on the box in even two languages, let alone six. A slap in the face to those American kids buying them! No. Not providing translated rulebooks seems odd. But complaining that the boxes don't have translations is rather weird. It isn't like there's some kind of deception about what you're looking for and what is in the box.
It's interesting if GW is in fact stopping the localizations of their rules, since it might influence their accessibility among the grade-schooler demographic they're otherwise trying pretty hard to recruit. The 40k rulebooks aren't the simplest texts for a 2nd or 3rd grader to read in a foreign language, after all. On the other hand, translation is an expensive business
If I take the latest Codex Chaos Space Marines as an example:
The bestiary pages with the highest text-to-picture ratio have about 640 words. Let's say every page had that much text and multiply it by 105 pages - that's 67,200 words in total. Even if they went to a translation agency (which is more expensive than having someone to do it in-house) and paid a very high rate of € 0.15 per word, that's € 10,080.- for the whole job. Hardly bank breaking I'd say.
Veteran Sergeant wrote: The box would be a huge jumble of text, when what they're trying to sell is the giant picture on the front of the little plastic dudes inside
Erm ... no:
Counterquestion:
Imagine that Kellogs would change its box design to this. Would this increase sales in USA?
eteran Sergeant wrote: The box would be a huge jumble of text, when what they're trying to sell is the giant picture on the front of the little plastic dudes inside
Erm ... no:
Counterquestion:
Imagine that Kellogs would change its box design to this. Would this increase sales in USA?
Give it 25 years, and that WILL be what we see on shelves HERE in the USA....
Father Gabe wrote:The originator should have done full research, like what has been discussed in the thread, before posting it. Very irresponsible on his part. If you are going to report on something like this, provide all the information, instead of creating a hate-bashing thread that takes a life of its own. Disappointed in Kroothawk, I expected better out of him.
An official GW statement was enough for me. Disappointing, right?
krazynadechukr wrote: The most extensive catalog of the world’s languages, generally taken to be as authoritative as any, is that of Ethnologue (published by SIL International), whose detailed classified list as of 2009 included 6,909 distinct languages.
That being said....see pics...
That do not look like September releases to me, correct?
So if the change starts with September, what do pics of June releases prove?
Since you quoted me, I will try to stress my sarcastic viewpoint of this thread altogether. It is a hypocrisy of sorts for people to cry injustice to a handful of languages being absent when there are thousands of other languages in the world. What about justice for all? This is a hobby, and if you are so offended by the business practicality and practices of the company handeling the hobby, leave it. Stand your ground and stand on your priciples, practice what you preach sorta thing. Imagine eating McDonalds fries, and the whole time complaining "...these are so bad for you, they should do something to stop this travesty..." This topic is as silly as that....
Automatically Appended Next Post: Complaining of missing languages as your opening your shiny new box of marines.....
First, you presume the folks posting are all currently GW customers. I, for example, have been boycotting GW for three years. So you can go ahead and listen to my opinion I suppose, which is substantively similar to those above:
GW is cost-cutting by phasing out German-language products. The cost savings seem to be relatively low versus the harm to the company's goodwill. I do not see the point in alienating a significant population of paying customers, but GW's MO for the past 5 years has been to cut costs at the risk of alienating customers and tarnishing goodwill. Hence threads like this become more and more common.
Second, Games Workshop is not "the hobby," not even if you so narrowly define it as Warhammer/Warhammer 40,000. One can be a fan of the setting and/or the products, not wishing to stop enjoying them, and also be upset about the company's policies and practices. In fact, it is far more likely that those who express such concerns are in fact fans of the setting/products rather than the reverse. 'If you don't like it then get out,' is not a terribly productive sentiment. Discussion about topics such as this is not only a way to vent, but also a step towards taking the sorts of actions you suggested, such as "complaining" to Games Workshop.
It would actually be far more productive to simply tell you, "If you don't like talking about this subject, then stop participating in the discussion." Now, I am not suggesting that you stop participating, the purpose for the above statement is rhetorical. The point is to illustrate the manner in which your sentiment is not only annoying/offensive, but also not terribly productive. Certainly it would have been much more productive for you to simply suggest that those who have concerns about GW's policies and procedures go to the company about them, rather than pairing it with a 'practice what you preach sentiment'. Indeed, I saw no one in the thread suggesting that one stop buying GW products while they themselves are buying GW products. That would be Hypocrisy akin to someone eating fries while advocating that the fries not be sold.
A more apt analogy would be someone eating fries while complaining about the low wages paid to McDonald's employees. There is a subtle but important distinction. The hypocrisy is not nearly so clean because the eating of the fries has no relationship to the low wages except that buying the fries supported the company who pays the low wages. One could stop buying the fries, but the act would not be terribly meaningful unless the company knew why one stopped eating the fries. On the other hand, one could also eat the fries and at the same time inform the company, as an interested consumer of the company's products that you disagree with the wages paid to the employees. One could suggest, for example, that you would be happy to pay more for the fries in order to allow the company to offer a higher wage. One could consume the fries, but advocate that the Government raise the minimum wage, indirectly forcing the company to offer a higher wage.
In the same way, it is perhaps a stronger position to criticize Games Workshop abandoning German-language products as a German-speaking consumer of those products! So in comparison to the many ways in which GW has decided to tarnish its goodwill, this is perhaps an instance in which a "if you don't like it get out" sentiment is the least apropos.
Agamemnon2 wrote: It's interesting if GW is in fact stopping the localizations of their rules, since it might influence their accessibility among the grade-schooler demographic they're otherwise trying pretty hard to recruit. The 40k rulebooks aren't the simplest texts for a 2nd or 3rd grader to read in a foreign language, after all. On the other hand, translation is an expensive business
I don't think it's expensive in the context of the size of GW as a business, and the amount of money we are talking about here.
First, you presume the folks posting are all currently GW customers. I, for example, have been boycotting GW for three years. So you can go ahead and listen to my opinion I suppose, which is substantively similar to those above:
GW is cost-cutting by phasing out German-language products. The cost savings seem to be relatively low versus the harm to the company's goodwill. I do not see the point in alienating a .................blah blah blah.......
Too much to read.....
I find it funny that I can get such a rise outta people like this.....on such a useless point.....
If this is all so moot, and you can't even be bothered to read what people post, why are you wasting your time in this thread instead of putting more models together?
Is it just me or is declaring TLDR makes you look like an idiot? you're basically saying to the world that you're lazy and/or have an attention span of a goldfish.
From Cracked.com:
Spoiler:
I could have written about any number of internet cliche. "Fail," for example. It's overused and usually bandied about by idiots. But the thing is, some things actually do fail in their execution. There are situations where the term is appropriate, even if pathetically conveyed. Not true for TL;DR. TL;DR is never right. Yes, some things are too long, but in order to figure that out, there's something you have to do first: read it. Only then can you say whether the presentation lasted longer than the idea. Too long; wish I didn't read (or "TL;WIDR") would make sense, but that's about it.
But what irks me most about TL;DR is that people who use it have no shame. No one is perfect. We all have failings, but we're supposed to be ashamed of them. We're supposed to keep our sins and shortfalls in a dark place we hope no one ever finds. "feth that," says the Internet. "I'm functionally slowed, and I don't care who knows it! Words? Gay. Who reads words? Sounds pretty lame." So go ahead; keep using "TL;DR." Just know that it is not an abbreviation for "too long; didn't read," but, instead, "hi, I am a miserable cretin of the Internet that must be spoon-fed pictures and factoids or I will piss myself." You might be the type of person who disagrees that that's what it means, but trust me, it's what everyone who's smarter than you is thinking. And since you're not so big on reading, that's a lot of people.
I just can't stomach another preachy, soap box, we are the 99% diatribe on an issue as trivial as that of missing languages on a model box..... By someone who has claimed he hasn't gamed GW for three years, yet still follows them to preach the vile deeds they are doing.....
I think after 8 pages there's really no news here now.
Let's hope for our less blessed brethren that the instructions and sides of the boxes will still have the relevant information in a tongue understandable to them.
It's like how in Germany and France they dub all American movies *shudders*.
