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Post by: Ma55ter_fett
I did a quick search but nothing turned up so....
Anyone catch the pilot last night?
I thought it was “ok” not anything gripping as of yet. No one among the cast of good looking but bland characters really stuck out to me. It also looked cheaper than I expected, which isn’t a huge problem but It was really noticeable in a few places
So what did dakka think?
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Post by: pities2004
It was fun to watch, you can defiantly tell Joss Whedon was involved.
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Post by: timetowaste85
You guys know my thread with spoilers is on this page and was started 5 minutes into the show, right? 
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Post by: Mathieu Raymond
^links or it didn't happen!
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Post by: WarAngel
I liked it.  The fancy toys made it look like a Bond film with super powered people. The car is awesome with or without upgrades.
One storyline I look forward to is this mystery concerning Agent Coulson and what he must never know. 
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Post by: LordofHats
Saw it and it's okay for a pilot. I think I'll like future episodes more. This one was very introducery-y.
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Post by: shamikebab
I enjoyed it, was a good set up episode. Will need to see how it goes over the next 5 or so episodes but I have faith in Joss and the team.
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Post by: greenskin lynn
 WarAngel wrote:I liked it. The fancy toys made it look like a Bond film with super powered people. The car is awesome with or without upgrades.
One storyline I look forward to is this mystery concerning Agent Coulson and what he must never know.
i figure he's either a robot or a clone
maybe both
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Post by: Laughing Man
 greenskin lynn wrote: WarAngel wrote:I liked it. The fancy toys made it look like a Bond film with super powered people. The car is awesome with or without upgrades.
One storyline I look forward to is this mystery concerning Agent Coulson and what he must never know.
i figure he's either a robot or a clone
maybe both
Calling Vision now.
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Post by: AduroT
I just got done watching it and thought it was awesome. Loved all the jokes. Thought the car was cooler till it did the hover car thing at the end.
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Post by: reds8n
greenskin lynn wrote: WarAngel wrote:I liked it. The fancy toys made it look like a Bond film with super powered people. The car is awesome with or without upgrades.
One storyline I look forward to is this mystery concerning Agent Coulson and what he must never know.
i figure he's either a robot or a clone
maybe both
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_Model_Decoy
would be the traditional method -- note that Stark referred to these in The Avengers, which could be their get out or could have just been another nod to get the fanboys giggling.
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Post by: timetowaste85
Once again, read spoiler of my thread (on my phone, can't link). I said the same thing before ALL you silly bastards.  I swear, nobody ever listens to me. 
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Post by: Breotan
Psssst... we can't hear you because is a text only forum.
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Post by: WarAngel
Clone would be my guess too. If it was a simple revival that he thinks it is there'd be no secret.
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Post by: ironicsilence
WarAngel wrote:
Clone would be my guess too. If it was a simple revival that he thinks it is there'd be no secret.
im betting on Stark using extremis to bring him back from the dead, something along the lines of coulson getting put on ice after his death for an unknown amount of time (not sure how much time passed between avengers and iron man 3) then after Stark perfected extremis he found out it could bring people back from the dead, and low and behold coulson had been on ice the entire time, a little extremis and presto changeo coulson is back from the dead. Only they give him the story to avoid the mental strain of finding out he was dead for X amount of time
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Post by: marv335
My money is on LMD.
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Post by: Compel
There's also supposedly some theories that 'Tahiti' is actually 'Valhalla.'
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Post by: Do_I_Not_Like_That
Watched it. 3/5 is my rating, which I suppose is not bad for a pilot, but not as good as the hype would suggest.
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Post by: AduroT
 Compel wrote:There's also supposedly some theories that 'Tahiti' is actually 'Valhalla.'
I would doubt this one. It would be interesting due to Thor's fondness for the Son of Coul, except it was said the Avengers didn't know he was alive, and I'd find it unlikely he could get Out of Valhala without Thor's help.
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Post by: Compel
But what if he had, for example, Odin's?
I mean, after all, it was Loki who killed him. Plus, I'm sure the Allfather is enough of a pragmatist to understand Fury's reasonings enough, not to go back on it.
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Post by: Paradigm
I'm going with the LMD theory, it's kind of SHIELD cop-out 101.
I enjoyed the show rather a lot, the cast were all pretty good (no one was great apart from Agent Coulson, but none of them were unwatchable). The plot was reasonable paced, and didn't have any glaring holes.
I'm looking forward to finding out who 'Mike' is. Either he's an entirely new character, or he is going to become I'm leaning more towards the second (spoilered) option, as he bares a similarity in terms of powers, appearance and (so far) his character is fairly similar. If this does turn out the be the case, that seems to be a good way of keeping it linked to super-characters while not needing to bring in the big ones like Iron Man or Cap A.
Overall, I'd give it 8/10 for TV series, it was a good introductory episode, and a massive step up from the catastrophic disaster that was Iron Man 3. Looking forward to next week's.
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Post by: Grimtuff
Liked the firs episode, got me wondering what the whole deal with Coulson is. there are so many theories flying around it is getting a little silly right now, but hey, it gets people talking. My money is on some kind of android. Note how he "matrix dodged" that van door being ripped off. It was only on screen for a second or two, but it seems a bit too fast for a normal human reaction time.
Something else I noticed, I watched The Avengers again today, and who do I see on one of the screens during the montage sequence at the end where they're doing all the new broadcast reactions to what happened in New York. The Maybe-he-is-maybe-he-isn't Luke Cage guy and his wife. Hmmmm......
Is it him?
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Post by: Tannhauser42
 Grimtuff wrote: Note how he "matrix dodged" that van door being ripped off. It was only on screen for a second or two, but it seems a bit too fast for a normal human reaction time.
Yes, but if you watch the short video "A Funny Thing Happened on the way to Thor's Hammer," he already had some good moves.
Something else I noticed, I watched The Avengers again today, and who do I see on one of the screens during the montage sequence at the end where they're doing all the new broadcast reactions to what happened in New York. The Maybe-he-is-maybe-he-isn't Luke Cage guy and his wife. Hmmmm......
Is it him?
There's no mention of the Avengers in the actor's IMDB credits. But, I wouldn't be too surprised if it was him. He is a Joss Whedon actor, after all (from Angel).
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Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
I just watched it on the plus box, and really liked it. Although I was a big fan of Whedon's work before so there was a strong chance I would like it.
The main boon for me is that none of the main characters came across as annoying, and the potential to introduce heroes and/or villains through this series is going to be brilliant to watch.
It went into the tape series folder straight away. 
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Post by: Vaerros
Nothing spectular so far, but very watchable. It'll be interesting to see what kind of characters they introduce.
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Post by: gunslingerpro
Not bad. A little formulaic but I liked it.
Girlfriend hated it. Must be good then
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Post by: notprop
It was good enough for a pilot. certainly there was nothing better on.
I had a weird feeling I was watching a Smallville episode at times, don't know why.
The characters were good enough and should develop well when the show hits its straps.
The only bits that had me groaning was the hover car at the end and the soft feel good music when the bad guy got taken down.
I have no opinion on the Coulson mystery. Call me unfashionably ambivalent but its the sort of plot minutiae that never bothers me so long as the show generally is okay.
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Post by: LuciusAR
 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
The main boon for me is that none of the main characters came across as annoying, and the potential to introduce heroes and/or villains through this series is going to be brilliant to watch.
Really? I must admit to not being rather wound up by the British tech twins. But then again I'm never fond of the way The British are portrayed in American TV shows.
One thing that confused me, was this supposed to be set before or after Iron Man 3? Is KIllian going to be the bad guy here, or has the Extremis tech been passed to someone else?
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Post by: notprop
I'm assuming that it must be after IM3 as the Extremis tech was effectively unknown/unrealised until Stark discovered the connection to it from the explosions in IM3.
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Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
Yeah I'm guessing its after IM3, I need to watch that tonight before the next episode really.
edit - oh and twins where fine, I've seen a lot worse, but I like geek characters.
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Post by: Hulksmash
I think for a Pilot it was excellent. None of the characters annoy me and there seems room for growth. I'd love for Gunn ("Mike" in the show) to get a recurring or larger role at some point.
The show isn't as good as Arrow but it has possibilities. Plus Arrow is in it's own category
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Post by: Mathieu Raymond
So you're saying I should give Arrow another chance?
I saw the episode with eating the dead bird and the boat in the warehouse and I just couldn't be bothered.
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Post by: Do_I_Not_Like_That
My main bone of contention is that once again, it's a film/tv programme about superheroes. Give me something new, or give me death!
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Post by: shamikebab
Arrow started really poorly but got much, much better. Glad I stuck with it
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Post by: Necros
Did they say if any of the movie characters are ever gonna be in the show (other than Colsun)? would be nice for continuity and all, even if it's just a cameo here and there. Or is TV just way below all of their pay grades?
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Post by: pretre
 Necros wrote:Did they say if any of the movie characters are ever gonna be in the show (other than Colsun)? would be nice for continuity and all, even if it's just a cameo here and there. Or is TV just way below all of their pay grades?
Cobie Smulders already looks to have a recurring role. I doubt RDJ is going to hop into every other episode though. I could definitely see major episodes having Fury stop by though.
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Post by: Kanluwen
 pretre wrote: Necros wrote:Did they say if any of the movie characters are ever gonna be in the show (other than Colsun)? would be nice for continuity and all, even if it's just a cameo here and there. Or is TV just way below all of their pay grades?
Cobie Smulders already looks to have a recurring role. I doubt RDJ is going to hop into every other episode though. I could definitely see major episodes having Fury stop by though.
Jackson and Whedon have talked about not wanting to have Fury show up in person, but rather have video calls or the like.
Jackson said something to the effect of "Fury's a busy man. He can't show up in the field as much as he did for The Avengers, but could he make time for conference calls? Of course."
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Post by: pretre
That's a good point. Fury is more wholesale and this is the retail end of the business.
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Post by: Hulksmash
Fury manages the big kids. I could see screen calls and such quite easily when things get nuts. But seriously, Coulson has experience with hairy situations and dealing with the major players. To me he's only a step or two behind Fury on the chain.
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Post by: Breotan
 Paradigm wrote:IEither he's an entirely new character, or he is going to become I'm leaning more towards the second (spoilered) option, as he bares a similarity in terms of powers, appearance and (so far) his character is fairly similar.
The problem is he got shot in the head which is something that could never happen to your "spoilered" hero. None of the sites tracking this show link this character to any existing Marvel ones so it looks like the show is introducing new characters. I wonder if there might be licensing issues still causing problems for Marvel.
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Post by: Paradigm
 Breotan wrote: Paradigm wrote:IEither he's an entirely new character, or he is going to become I'm leaning more towards the second (spoilered) option, as he bares a similarity in terms of powers, appearance and (so far) his character is fairly similar.
The problem is he got shot in the head which is something that could never happen to your "spoilered" hero. None of the sites tracking this show link this character to any existing Marvel ones so it looks like the show is introducing new characters. I wonder if there might be licensing issues still causing problems for Marvel.
That's a good point, and something I was wondering myself should he turn out as I suggested. From the rest of the marvel films it's pretty obvious that they don't mind changing established characters and ideas (eg mandarin, extremis) so it's still up for debate. His speech at the end and the ideals seemed to represent the character well, which was what got me thinking in the first place. The fact they 'erased' his identify entirely also adds to the theory.
However, it could well be a new character, which would explain how he was shot. I guess if they are planning to do new characters, it's better putting them here than in a major film, which is something I know didn't go down well with Whiplash or whatever his name was in Iron Man 2, as it's easier (and cheaper) to recover from. I guess we'll know in a few weeks, maybe even this week's show.
I thought Fantastic 4, spiderman and the X-men were the only ones marvel/disney didn't have. What ones were you thinking would cause problems for them?
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Post by: Compel
I thought he was just shot with an experimental taser type gun that they showed off in one of the opening scenes?
Apparently the problem child is 'X-men' as it means they allegedly can't mention the word 'mutant' and all sorts of other related type phrases.
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Post by: Paradigm
With the gun, they mentioned (amidst the techo-babble) that the bullet broke up on impact and delivered an anesthetic, if there was taser involved that might justify it.
And I can see how the mutant ban could be an issue. Although I thought it had been mentioned somewhere (comic-con, I think) that Averngers 2 was going to feature Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver, both mutants and both rumoured to be in X-men Days of Future Past as well. Wonder how they'll work past that one.
On a similar note, I liked the way they 'borrowed' the classic spiderman line: 'with great power comes... loads of crazy stuff'.
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Post by: ProtoClone
Saw it, I liked it because they hooked me a long time ago with all of the movies.
But seriously, I thought the pilot was kind of weak...didn't feel like it had a lot to hook someone for a pilot, but I guess they are banking on the people who were hooked from all of the movies, like me. 
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Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
This is why Havok recently had a big speech in one of the X-men/Avenger comics that they no longer like the word Mutant, they prefer Gifted.
Hence the mention of registered/unregistered gifted in the first show.
Marvel can't get X-men back from Fox, so they are moving the goalposts.
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Post by: Hulksmash
Well that was quick....Everyone watched the entire episode I assume
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Post by: pretre
So much for Fury not showing up...
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Post by: AduroT
I liked his little cameo there at the end.
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Post by: Yodhrin
It might just have been the actress playing the Comandante, but did anyone else get a really strong vibe of season 1 Human Target from episode 2?
We're still world-building at this point, so it's difficult to know if it'll pick up, but this one was a bit hit & miss for me. The whole wrist-dislocation scene was...well, a wee touch on the daft side even for Marvel, unless we're going to find out that Pilot Lady is "gifted" herself(I refuse to learn the names of characters in a show until I know I'm going to stick with it). Judging by the way they keep using the "it's a magical place" line, I suspect Coulson isn't intended to be a permanent member of the cast, at some point he's going to learn the truth, whatever that turns out to be, and bog off to figure himself out before possibly returning in one of the movies if they lift the relevant storyline from the comics. Once they've had the existing team of newbies around for long enough that the audience gets used to them, I suspect that's when Coulson will get axed.
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Post by: greenskin lynn
 Yodhrin wrote:It might just have been the actress playing the Comandante, but did anyone else get a really strong vibe of season 1 Human Target from episode 2?
We're still world-building at this point, so it's difficult to know if it'll pick up, but this one was a bit hit & miss for me. The whole wrist-dislocation scene was...well, a wee touch on the daft side even for Marvel, unless we're going to find out that Pilot Lady is "gifted" herself(I refuse to learn the names of characters in a show until I know I'm going to stick with it). Judging by the way they keep using the "it's a magical place" line, I suspect Coulson isn't intended to be a permanent member of the cast, at some point he's going to learn the truth, whatever that turns out to be, and bog off to figure himself out before possibly returning in one of the movies if they lift the relevant storyline from the comics. Once they've had the existing team of newbies around for long enough that the audience gets used to them, I suspect that's when Coulson will get axed.
i would find a lack of coulson disappointing, and it would decrease the likelihood of me continuing to watch episodes, cause i really don't give a crap about the rest of the team yet
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Post by: Hulksmash
Yeah, I don't see Coulson going anywhere for quite a while. But then again I thoguht Fury would only likely show up via video conferencing and only for big stuff.
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Post by: Ahtman
They are team building at this point, to be sure, but the world has been built up quite a bit. I mean, if six lead in movies isn't world building, then there is a problem somewhere.
Viewership dropped from the pilot (22.1 million) to more moderate numbers (8.4 million) that are more in line with Whedon television shows viewership numbers. In the same time slot The Voice has 14.2 million viewers and NCIS had 19.3.
I think if they want this show to be great it needs to have an endgame in mind (three season story arc, natch) and should have strong connections with Phase 2*. Otherwise I can see it getting bogged down into repetition or just goofy (in the bad way) stories. Something like this needs focus and planning to rise above. I also think at some point there needs to be some recurring capes, or people will get antsy. They are what separates this from just being X-files Redeux or Friday the 13th: The TV Series light**. I don't mean A listers like Hulk or Captain America, but Iron Fist would be nice, or any number of other heroes in the Marvel universe.
*So far they have done a decent job of tying things in with the previous movies, and having Extremis pop was a good touch.
** This was already done with Warehouse 13.
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Post by: chromedog
It's a whedon show.
I'm placing bets on it getting axed in three ... two ...
His record for TV shows isn't stellar.
Buffy ran waaaaaay too long (how many times did she die, anyway?) and firefly got a mercy killing.
I recorded it. I'll give it a watch in the next few days. If the wife likes it, that will be the barometer. She likes SF and fantasy stuff - she liked Smallville, but hated Mutant X (and the other mutant shows) and Arrow.
I'm NOT a marvel comic fanboy (loathed IM2&3, thought Avengers was sub-par, and didn't bother watching any of the other Avengers sub movies). Maybe this can change that. I'm not holding out much hope, though.
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Post by: LordofHats
So far I find the team rather one dimensional but it's only two episodes in. Ep 2 didn't really impress me though. Very predictable. Coolsen is cool and all but I don't think he can carry this show by himself. The funny one liners here and there just aren't enough.
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Post by: pities2004
TOTAL FACIAL, yeah the Fury Cameo was awesome Automatically Appended Next Post:  LordofHats wrote:So far I find the team rather one dimensional but it's only two episodes in. Ep 2 didn't really impress me though. Very predictable. Coolsen is cool and all but I don't think he can carry this show by himself. The funny one liners here and there just aren't enough.
I get to watch a new story in the good Marvel universe every week.
I'm happy with that.
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Post by: Hulksmash
Whedon has done some good stuff but yeah. His track record for shows isn't stellar. At least this isn't Fox. They cancelled Angel with what, 5 episodes to wrap it up. Firefly didn't make it a full season. At least Fox gave him time to finish Doll House properly.
He is probably Marvel's/Disney's man for Avenger related material so I don't see this getting the axe as fast as his Fox shows. And let's be honest. Revolution got a second season, this should be fine. But he needs to find a good showrunner and develop a plan that ties into the current movie cycle.
We'll see. Right now Arrow started stronger than this and it didn't have a stellar start.
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Post by: pities2004
 Hulksmash wrote:Whedon has done some good stuff but yeah. His track record for shows isn't stellar. At least this isn't Fox. They cancelled Angel with what, 5 episodes to wrap it up. Firefly didn't make it a full season. At least Fox gave him time to finish Doll House properly.
He is probably Marvel's/Disney's man for Avenger related material so I don't see this getting the axe as fast as his Fox shows. And let's be honest. Revolution got a second season, this should be fine. But he needs to find a good showrunner and develop a plan that ties into the current movie cycle.
We'll see. Right now Arrow started stronger than this and it didn't have a stellar start.
Maybe it's just guys with bow's and bad acting.
All they need to do is add Hawkeye
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Post by: Hulksmash
I do not approve of your slandering of Arrow!
But as to Agents of Shield TV shows take a few episodes to settle down into a a good flow with their characters. I've got high hopes but if it doesn't click better in another 2-3 episodes it's going to be relegated to my early weekend watching when the wife is asleep
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Post by: whembly
I think it's okay...
The story is good, but the acting seems forced. Hopefully the chemistry will get better.
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Post by: Breotan
Well, I was underwhelmed by the second episode. Nothing really made me care about any of the characters, even the hot hacker girl's hot looks weren't enough to overcome the 3rd rate story. And apparently the showrunners really really don't give a damn about physics. Seriously, how long is explosive decompression supposed to last? On an airplane? At 37,000 feet? It was over five minutes on the show. And a tower construction crane isn't strong enough to suspend the disbelief needed to accept that a flimsy rubber raft can plug a hole in the fuselage, catch a full grown man and not be sucked out of the plane, and allow for full (and instant) re-pressurization of the cabin. If the writing doesn't stop being so damned stupid, I'm ditching this show.
Can't wait for season two of Arrow. At least that show doesn't assume their audience is full of morons.
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Post by: AduroT
It wasn't nessisarily explosive decompression the whole five minutes. There's also the moving air outside the hole that will suck out stuff inside the hole. It's like driving with your windows down, only at a greater speed. But yeah, I groaned when the raft plugged the hole.
So the first episode referenced Gamma, Super Soldier Serum and Extremis as being the cause of its story. Second episode stuff was caused by a Hydra Tesseract weapon. I wonder how many shows are going to be fallout of stuff from the movies before we get to one that's going to have all it's own material.
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Post by: Breotan
I'd be happy for an episode that didn't bore the pants off me.
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Post by: pities2004
 AduroT wrote:It wasn't nessisarily explosive decompression the whole five minutes. There's also the moving air outside the hole that will suck out stuff inside the hole. It's like driving with your windows down, only at a greater speed. But yeah, I groaned when the raft plugged the hole.
So the first episode referenced Gamma, Super Soldier Serum and Extremis as being the cause of its story. Second episode stuff was caused by a Hydra Tesseract weapon. I wonder how many shows are going to be fallout of stuff from the movies before we get to one that's going to have all it's own material.
I don't see a problem with that. Automatically Appended Next Post: Breotan wrote:Well, I was underwhelmed by the second episode. Nothing really made me care about any of the characters, even the hot hacker girl's hot looks weren't enough to overcome the 3rd rate story. And apparently the showrunners really really don't give a damn about physics. Seriously, how long is explosive decompression supposed to last? On an airplane? At 37,000 feet? It was over five minutes on the show. And a tower construction crane isn't strong enough to suspend the disbelief needed to accept that a flimsy rubber raft can plug a hole in the fuselage, catch a full grown man and not be sucked out of the plane, and allow for full (and instant) re-pressurization of the cabin. If the writing doesn't stop being so damned stupid, I'm ditching this show.
Can't wait for season two of Arrow. At least that show doesn't assume their audience is full of morons.
It's a shield raft, it's special.
Why don't you guys go start an Arrow thread?
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Is it a superhero series?
I didn't bother watching because the "Marvel" "SHIELD" name made it sound like superheroes, whom I find boring and stupid.
However I have seen a trailer that makes it look a bit more like X Files with more action and SF bling added.
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Post by: Hulksmash
So far there are no "Super Heroes" involved. The agents are merely human. At least that's how they've presented them so far.
It has potential. But the people loving the cast is what keeps shows like this going so heres hoping they click sooner rather than later.
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Post by: pities2004
 Kilkrazy wrote:Is it a superhero series?
I didn't bother watching because the "Marvel" "SHIELD" name made it sound like superheroes, whom I find boring and stupid.
However I have seen a trailer that makes it look a bit more like X Files with more action and SF bling added.
Maybe that's because you don't actually understand what SHIELD is.
SHIELD isn't the Avengers, it's not the X-men, it's not the Fantastic Freaking four.
It's SHIELD, A bunch of top secret Agents dealing with crap the sheeple don't want to know about. And yes they do interact with super heroes etc, but SHIELD themselves are not super heroes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.H.I.E.L.D.#Organizational_structure_and_procedure
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Post by: Noir
Kilkrazy wrote:Is it a superhero series?
I didn't bother watching because the "Marvel" "SHIELD" name made it sound like superheroes, whom I find boring and stupid.
However I have seen a trailer that makes it look a bit more like X Files with more action and SF bling added.
No it is a Joss Whedon TV show, the Marvel is there for the comic book fans. If you like his other TV show give it a chance you will likely like it, if your not a fan he's stuff you could pass.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
 pities2004 wrote: Kilkrazy wrote:Is it a superhero series?
I didn't bother watching because the "Marvel" "SHIELD" name made it sound like superheroes, whom I find boring and stupid.
However I have seen a trailer that makes it look a bit more like X Files with more action and SF bling added.
Maybe that's because you don't actually understand what SHIELD is.
SHIELD isn't the Avengers, it's not the X-men, it's not the Fantastic Freaking four.
It's SHIELD, A bunch of top secret Agents dealing with crap the sheeple don't want to know about. And yes they do interact with super heroes etc, but SHIELD themselves are not super heroes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.H.I.E.L.D.#Organizational_structure_and_procedure
It's because to me "Marvel" == super hero comics and "SHIELD" sounds like a super hero team. I have Marvel's "The Nam" but it's obvious what that's about.
I liked Buffy Vampire Slayer.
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Post by: Flashman
It's still teething, but like last week, there were some good moments. I especially liked the last line.
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Post by: KamikazeCanuck
It's ok I guess. I probably wouldn't watch it if it weren't Marvel.
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Post by: Compel
Just watched Episode 2. The show is definitely alright but not one of my favourites.
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Post by: Frazzled
I watched five minutes of episode 2 and changed the channel. When I saw the bad uniforms and hokey engine nacelles on the C-17 it looked like a cross between A Team and bad.
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Post by: pities2004
 Frazzled wrote:I watched five minutes of episode 2 and changed the channel. When I saw the bad uniforms and hokey engine nacelles on the C-17 it looked like a cross between A Team and bad.
Well when it's cancelled and in 5 years when hardcore whedons are begging for Shield to come back, we will look back at this moment.
RIP firefly
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Post by: Paradigm
I just watched it (I'm very jealous of you guys in the USA who get it before us Brits) and I thought it was pretty good. I think I prefer last week's episode, simply because of the superhuman interaction making it feel more marvel, but the same time, I do like the way they're once more bringing in the links to the films. I actually expect either Hydra or AIM to make a comeback in a big way if this show runs on, as they are an integral part of the marvel universe without dealing with too much superhero stuff. It would be a good way of bringing in a major 'villain' concept, although the Rising Tide seem to have that covered for now.
I was a little disappointed they didn't follow up the Mike Peterson story from episode one, but I'm almost certain they'll come back to that. After all, this episode was only set a few hours after the last one ended, so you can't expect them to pick up all the pieces.
The acting did seem a little clunky in places, but I think that's partly down to the show just starting off and partly due to the 'scientists can't do social interaction' idea/cliche. The plot was perhaps a little tenuous at times (the raft being the only real example of this), but this is the same universe where we have a billionaire in a flying metal suit, an interplanetary god, and supersoldiers on ice for 70 years, so I think I'm perfectly willing to suspend my disbelief.
Fury's cameo at the end was brilliant, I hope we see more of those. The odd scene like that with Stark or Banner could be cool as well.
Overall, it was plenty good enough, and my interest is still piqued. I'll certainly rewatch this one, and look forward to next week's.
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Post by: Ahtman
It's like my whole world is falling apart. I don't even know who I am anymore.
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Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
 Flashman wrote:It's still teething, but like last week, there were some good moments. I especially liked the last line.
Very much so.
As a comic fanboy I am just loving the fact we have a Marvel centric TV show, to be fair it would struggle to do any wrong in my eyes anyways, but I am seeing this as better than any other Sci-fi in the last couple of years.
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Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
Could have been worse.. you could have linked Birds of Prey.
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Post by: Ma55ter_fett
Frazzled wrote:I watched five minutes of episode 2 and changed the channel. When I saw the bad uniforms and hokey engine nacelles on the C-17 it looked like a cross between A Team and bad.
The violence is pretty much on par with what you'd get with an episode of the A-Team actually.
Some people get punched and knocked out, guns are fired but you don't see anyone get hit except for one split second shot of a guy falling down.
At then end of the day there is some shenagains with a plane and a "I love it when a plan comes together" moment with agent coulson.
Also the effects for the special sheild plane flying over the jungle and landing were very bad imo.
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Post by: Ahtman
TV budgets, even ones this size, rarely allow for cinema quality special effects. Time is also a factor, when you have to produce X episodes in a given year as opposed to two years for a film.
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Post by: Ma55ter_fett
 Ahtman wrote:TV budgets, even ones this size, rarely allow for cinema quality special effects. Time is also a factor, when you have to produce X episodes in a given year as opposed to two years for a film.
Could they seriously not license some footage of an actual rain forest? Nature documentaries on PBS are lousy with "flying over a rainforest" shots, just grab a 2 second clip from the editing room garbage can and paste it in there.
Or just not have shots like that? The only reason to have a shot showing the sheild plane's exterior is for the audience to go "Wow, that plane looks cool!" but you (or me at least) can't say that when it looks far worse than anything in "MS Flight."
Just have an indian jones thing where the plane flys along a dotted path and stick to shots of the planes interior.
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Post by: Ahtman
I think they were trying to give her that bad ass moment like Sam Eliot in We Were Soldiers:
Lt. Colonel Hal Moore: I think you oughta get yourself an M-16.
Sergeant Major Basil Plumley: Sir, if the time comes I need one, there'll be plenty lying on the ground.
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Post by: AduroT
It seems perfectly reasonable to me that she doesn't carry a gun as she's made it very clear she doesn't Want to be involved in any fighting. She's just been forced into every fight that's come up so far...
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Post by: Yodhrin
pities2004 wrote: Frazzled wrote:I watched five minutes of episode 2 and changed the channel. When I saw the bad uniforms and hokey engine nacelles on the C-17 it looked like a cross between A Team and bad.
Well when it's cancelled and in 5 years when hardcore whedons are begging for Shield to come back, we will look back at this moment.
RIP firefly
This isn't going to be cancelled unless it gets the worst ratings in TV history, it's being funded from "upstairs" at the Big D, and its merits as a show are almost entirely besides the point. It exists to keep the hype for the Movie Universe going between the films, and as a way for them to introduce new heroes and villains from the comics which can be spun off into their own movies or bit-parts in the main "franchises". Obviously it's in their interests to try and make it as good as possible in order to reach the widest audience, but it would have to be tanking to an obscene degree for them to cancel it, since even a mediocre Marvel show will satisfy their fanbase, keeping them energised and ready to promote the next film through word of mouth.
EDIT: Figured out why it reminds me of Human Target; Bear McCreary's the composer for the score on both shows(at least season 1 of HT, season 2 they dumped the orchestral score to save cash and it really diminished the experience of watching).
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Post by: Eisensapper
Like the first episode, wasnt a huge fan of the second.
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Post by: AegisGrimm
It's firmly in the OK pile I really like it, but not as much as shows like Falling Skies, Revolution, and surprisingly enough, The Blacklist.
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Post by: Tannhauser42
I think it's a good show that just needs to find it footing. Once they no longer need to reference the movies in order to provide something familiar for people to reference, and can start telling their own stories, it will get a lot better. Much will depend on the actors/characters. Even the first couple episode of Buffy weren't as good (but still great) until the actors got the chance to settle into the roles.
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Post by: Ahtman
 Tannhauser42 wrote:I think it's a good show that just needs to find it footing. Once they no longer need to reference the movies in order to provide something familiar for people to reference, and can start telling their own stories, it will get a lot better. Much will depend on the actors/characters. Even the first couple episode of Buffy weren't as good (but still great) until the actors got the chance to settle into the roles.
This is a pretty good assessment overall, with the only character that needs more real work is the 'hot hacker who lives in a van'. All the other characters backstories and personalities match up with where they are, they just need to gel a bit more, but she is sorta goofy on all counts. There is an idea there, but it doesn't seem that thought out or presented at this point. To use Scooby Doo as a reference, they act like she is sexy Velma, but comes across more like miscast Daphne.
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Post by: chromedog
pities2004 wrote: Frazzled wrote:I watched five minutes of episode 2 and changed the channel. When I saw the bad uniforms and hokey engine nacelles on the C-17 it looked like a cross between A Team and bad.
Well when it's cancelled and in 5 years when hardcore whedons are begging for Shield to come back, we will look back at this moment.
RIP firefly
It's been 10 years for that, actually.
Brownshirts/noses/coats/whatever still won't let it go.
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Post by: AduroT
Show of hands, who Didn't see that ending coming? Anyone?
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Post by: timetowaste85
If you're going to spoil it, please use spoilers! Work has kept me out past 8 for the last two episodes, and I was strong armed by my boss to go out drinking last night. I'm a bit behind and want to see stuff!
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Post by: AduroT
What;s the expiration date on spoiler tags? Does every conversion that mentions something that happens have to be in tags? What if someone hasn't seen any of the episodes yet but plans to? Personally, if I don't want spoilers, I don't visit threads that exist specifically to talk about the thing I don't want spoilered.
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Post by: Eisensapper
I agree, if you don't want spoilers don't read the thread.
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Post by: LordofHats
AduroT wrote:What;s the expiration date on spoiler tags? Does every conversion that mentions something that happens have to be in tags? What if someone hasn't seen any of the episodes yet but plans to? Personally, if I don't want spoilers, I don't visit threads that exist specifically to talk about the thing I don't want spoilered.
My rule is five years
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Post by: Compel
I believe general protocol for movie discussions is to treat the latest aired episode as spoiler tag worthy.
It'd be nice, since UK episodes air on Fridays...
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Post by: LordofHats
Caught the episode.
My only question; How the heck do you 'pump' a breech loaded double barrel shotgun?
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Post by: Frankenberry
@LordofHats I was wondering the same thing, made me chuckle and the wife wanted to know why.
Good episode though, getting beyond silly, but still entertaining.
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Post by: Breotan
LordofHats wrote:My only question; How the heck do you 'pump' a breech loaded double barrel shotgun?
Well, to be fair, we didn't actually see him pump it. ;P
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Post by: Ma55ter_fett
I actually enjoyed the third episode, I can hardly believe it.
Much better use of CGI, focused more on the characters, the two scientists weren't in it as much with their hollywood tech babble, good dialogue that is witty in the right places.
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Post by: Ahtman
LordofHats wrote:My only question; How the heck do you 'pump' a breech loaded double barrel shotgun?
That did sort of stick out, didn't it? Overall I found the episode kind of 'meh'. I haven't found it incredibly engaging, interesting sometimes, but not engaging. I'll give it a few more episodes to see if it picks up.
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Post by: LordofHats
I find the series thus far meh. I feel like it could be good but the cast isn't very engaging and the writing is kind of bland.
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Post by: Ahtman
I'm can't help but wonder if they would have more room to be a bit bolder if they had been on another channel besides ABC, known for skewing toward kids and everyone's father-in-law that won't stop watching CSI and NCIS. The connection between Disney and ABC makes it impossible, but I think NBC or even the dreaded (to Whedon) FOX might have allowed it more room. It feels like they want it to be a family adventure show while also having it be an X-files kind of show, and trying to do both simultaneously isn't doing it any favors.
Along with the shotgun, I also groaned when I saw Coulson storming the beach in a suit and tie. It is ok to show him in something different, and an extraction from a small craft on to a beach into a fortified bunker would have been an ok time. At least put some boots on to run in sand.
The more I think about it the more I realize the only thing I really like about the show is Coulson, and an ensemble show can't really sustain only one interesting character.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Coulson always wears a suit.
Anyway, liking it so far. I just want more of it really. The drip feeding of one episode a week is worse for the show really.
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Post by: marv335
I like the fact Coulson wore the suit, just because you're storming a fortress, there is no reason to let standards slip.
Also, he doesn't have anything else in his wardrobe.
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Post by: Ahtman
That is just silly, and not in a good, fun way. If this were MIB and all SHIELD agents were doing this it would make sense, except they do not.
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Post by: Gitzbitah
 Ahtman wrote:
That is just silly, and not in a good, fun way. If this were MIB and all SHIELD agents were doing this it would make sense, except they do not.
Superhero 101- if you have a suit, you must always wear the suit when superheroing. Coulson goes undercover by removing the suit- that's why no one recognized him in Tahiti.
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Post by: Paradigm
Just seen episode 3, more of the same really. Fairly well paced, engaging, some good dialogue and a couple of nice twists. I must admit the ending was perhaps predictable (and I'm not sure what the likelihood of a human body acting as a catalyst in a system operating on an electrical current and one element, but I can worl past that, it's sci-fi), but it looks like it could go somewhere interesting.
More superhuman (not superhero) stuff would probably be better than having the focus on purely new technology. Of course, the two are linked, but I hope they shift the focus more towards the people than the tech every once in a while.
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Post by: Breotan
I do like how they keep dropping subtle hints about something being wrong with Coulson. I wonder how they're planning on handling it?. LMD seems the likely scenario but you can't be sure until they do the reveal. I just hope it isn't done in a stupid or ham-handed manner.
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Post by: Ahtman
Stole this from another website.
Clone 1:5
LMD 1:5
Norse Magic 1:7
He's Vision Now 1:10
Star Trek III Rejuvenation Chamber: 1:15
Scarlet Witch Did Something 1:15
Phoenix Force 1:20
Dr. Strange Operated On Him 1:20
Deal With Mephisto 1:30
Superboy Got Drunk and Punched Time Again 1:50
Actually Went to Tahiti 1:1000
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I don't think we're far off a second season renewal.
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Post by: marv335
I got home to Saudi, from leave in the UK to find that AoS has been picked up by the local satellite network.
Same time as US too, so no more spoilers for me!
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Post by: Mr Morden
So far I am enjoying it:
Plus points
JW dialogue is always welcome
Several pretty girls as main cast
nice light entertainment
At the very least its better than Arrow...........
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Post by: sebster
Ahtman wrote:I'm can't help but wonder if they would have more room to be a bit bolder if they had been on another channel besides ABC
Yeah. I'm not sure if it's the channel or Marvel's very steady hand that's keeping it as it is, but from what I've seen of the show the feeling is that it could be a lot bolder. It really feels like yet another action adventure show just like we've been seeing for about two decades, albeit with higher production.
And sometimes doing the same old thing only with more money is enough, but I'm just not feeling it here, all the beats feel way too familiar.
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Post by: LuciusAR
I love the fact that Coulson never changes out of his suit, even when on a Commando style raid or in the heat of a South American jungle. It's his 'thing' and it sort of goes with his deadpan manner.
A bit silly perhaps, but we mustn’t forget that we are talking about the marvel universe here.
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Post by: AduroT
He Could be wearing spandex.
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Post by: Breotan
Well, the shows seem to be getting better as the series goes on, so that's a good sign. I really didn't have any big problems with the fourth episode which is saying a lot after the first and second. Hopefully things will continue to improve and this show will end up being as cool as season one of Heroes.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Read something interesting yesterday from the executive producer that the pilot and second episode are best considered as 'Part I and 2' of the same episode. Kind of makes sense, pacing wise.
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Post by: Hulksmash
That would actually make sense. It'd be like a TV movie. Hence the feeling of the "Team" not being together at all in the second episode, the same annoyances that seemed vanish in Ep. 3 like the ridiculously constant references to the movies and the way the twins talk, as well as a Movie character showing up in the end of it.
That would make a lot more sense actually.....
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Post by: AduroT
We get it. There's something freaky with Coulson. You don't have to bring it up every episode without actually giving us any hints as to What's wrong with Coulson.
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Post by: chromedog
 Kanluwen wrote:Read something interesting yesterday from the executive producer that the pilot and second episode are best considered as 'Part I and 2' of the same episode. Kind of makes sense, pacing wise.
That's probably why we got them back to back when they aired here.
With ep3 a week later.
It's not grabbing me so far. The scientists are annoying. Cute anarcho-hacker chick is also annoying. Ruff-tuff-he-man-soldier type is ... you get the picture.
I don't think I've ever liked a character Ming-Na Wen has played (in anything I've seen).
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Post by: KamikazeCanuck
SHIELD needs some sort of anti-shield foil which they seem to be hinting at last episode. AIM and Hydra have already been established in the movies so those would be good candidates.
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Post by: Breotan
I thought Hydra was eliminated during WWII in the TV/Film canon? AIM certainly seems highly likely.
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Post by: Ahtman
It is The Leader from The Incredible Hulk!
Well, probably not, but he was in a movie.
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Post by: Breotan
He was? I remember the Absorbing Man/Zzzax mashup and the "boney" Abomination but not The Leader.
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Post by: Ahtman
Breotan wrote:He was? I remember the Absorbing Man/Zzzax mashup and the "boney" Abomination but not The Leader.
Dr. Samuel Sterns (AKA The Leader) was the other scientist who was trying to help Bruce in the film, and in the end he gets a head wound that gamma irradiated blood drips into. It briefly shows his head starting to mutate before cutting away. Found a pic online:
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Post by: reds8n
If he does appear I hope to high heaven that they go with the classic/original look for the character.
Gotta be scared of a villain who cannot wear a hat and has trouble getting through most doorways.
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Post by: Breotan
I dunno. I sorta like the Freddy Mercury / Brussel Sprout look they designed for him. 
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Someone did some digging. That weird text that was on the blackboard? Skrull writing.
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Post by: KamikazeCanuck
Breotan wrote:I thought Hydra was eliminated during WWII in the TV/Film canon? AIM certainly seems highly likely.
They'll be back. We can never seem to get rid of those pesky Nazis.
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Post by: Yodhrin
 KamikazeCanuck wrote: Breotan wrote:I thought Hydra was eliminated during WWII in the TV/Film canon? AIM certainly seems highly likely.
They'll be back. We can never seem to get rid of those pesky Nazis.
Exactly. Look again at what happens to Red Skull when he grasps the Tesseract, it's a very similar effect to what happens when Thor uses it to take Loki back to Asgard at the end of The Avengers, I suspect he'll be back for Captain America 3 if they make his story a trilogy, and it'd be quite cool if they introduced a new modern Hydra through SHIELD.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I want them to go the Dell Rusk route. That could be interesting.
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Post by: KamikazeCanuck
 H.B.M.C. wrote:I want them to go the Dell Rusk route. That could be interesting.
The whatnow?
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Post by: Kain
When is it out in South Africa? And on what channel of DSTV can I find it on?
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Post by: -Loki-
H.B.M.C. wrote:Someone did some digging. That weird text that was on the blackboard? Skrull writing.
I thought it was fairly obviously going to be Skrull writing.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
 -Loki- wrote:I thought it was fairly obviously going to be Skrull writing.
Given the way the rights for various Marvel properties are handled, it was up in the air. There are four major Marvel institutions that originated through the Fantastic Four: 1. Doctor Doom. 2. Galactus/Silver Surfer. 3. Skrulls. 4. Kree. 20th Century Fox has the Fantastic Four rights, and they ain't ever giving them back (they once made a cheapo F4 movie that they never released - that's how serious they are about holding onto the rights), meaning there are some things that Marvel cannot do. It's never really been clear what their limitations are, so it is always safer to assume that they don't have the rights to these four things (for live action - video games and cartoons are different) until they show that they do. Guardians of the Galaxy has shown us that they can do the Kree (Ronan the Accuser is the main bad guy, and there are other Kree characters in the film), and now we have Skrull text in an episode of SHIELD. I don't think we're going to see Galactus ever show up, and I think Doom is 100% off-limits (such a shame, as he is Marvel's biggest Big Bad in a lot of ways), but it's great if the later two are available for the MCU. And Skrulls make a great bad guy for a TV show like this. Shape Shifters = saving money on special effects/prosthetics.
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Post by: -Loki-
Marvel have the rights to the Skrulls through the Chitauri, which were made for the Ultimate series as their replacement. So when they say 'Skrull writing' I just assumed Chitauri writing, since those are the 'Skrulls' they have the rights to.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Yes, I know what the Chitauri are, but if it were Chitauri they would have said already.
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Post by: Mr Morden
Well if Hydra show up I hope they and the Red Skull bloke are a little more effective than they were in the fairly average Cap A film.
I mean they couldn't even shoot straight and the captured soliders were far more effective than they ever were with theri super weapons. Red Skull juust postured a bit and did very little of anything..
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Do not question his genius!
But yeah, Red Skull was pretty crap in that film. I hope that if they give us any other Hydra villains (Strucker, Zemo, etc.) that they're not as gak.
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Post by: Mr Morden
I think it would have been better to just have the Nazis as the bad guys and Hydra only revealed at the very end of the film.- trying to protect them as "worse than the Nazis" was weak - they were certainly terrible soliders!
Is Strukker the one with the twins who turn up in the Xmen long ago?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Baron Von Strucker is an old school enemy of Cap. Has a robotic/daemonic hand that can suck the life out of people and rejuvinate him. He's just another Hydra leader - one of many - and can be interesting.
I like Baron Zemo more though.
And yeah, he had two daughters, twins, who were mutants. Both of them are dead though.
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Post by: Paradigm
Episode 4, same again. Nicely paced, better dialogue (less of the annoying scientists) and some cool action. I liked the trick at the end with I agree there needs to be an anti-Shield, preferably Hydra as AIM have already been used and totally messed up by Iron Man 3. Hydra may have been poor shots in Cap, but at least they stayed fairly true to the original background. I do feel like they're not 'finishing' a lot of these plots, with the non-resolution with Mike at the end of ep1, the gravitonium man last week, and now a hidden villain after apparently alien tech... That said, I can tolerate that as I reckon/hope it's going somewhere cool. We're only a third of the way through the series, after all. Given the comment about ep 1+2 being a continuation, I wonder if we'll see any more two-parters?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Paradigm wrote:I do feel like they're not 'finishing' a lot of these plots...
Of course they aren't. We're 4 episodes in. This is all set up.
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Post by: Paradigm
H.B.M.C. wrote: Paradigm wrote:I do feel like they're not 'finishing' a lot of these plots...
Of course they aren't. We're 4 episodes in. This is all set up.
I think you misinterpreted my post. I wasn't complaining about that, I am actually looking forward to seeing where this all goes, and the more they leave hanging, the more interesting it becomes.
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Post by: reds8n
That's the fairly recent redesign -- well a variation of. Which started during Peter David's seminal run on the Hulk title. IIRC he refered to this redesign as the Jiffy pop head design ( or something like that anyway...?
For far too many years.. well...
Horrifying but perhaps not quite in the way desired.
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Post by: AduroT
Oh, right, the Leader is That guy! I was thinking of Modak I believe his name is when thinking of big headed villans.
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Post by: KamikazeCanuck
Lol at "...and I'm Batman".
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Post by: reds8n
AduroT wrote:Oh, right, the Leader is That guy! I was thinking of Modak I believe his name is when thinking of big headed villans.
Close
http://marvel.com/universe/MODOK
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Post by: pities2004
Scorch was meh
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Post by: kronk
Episode 1 was excellent.
Episodes 2 through last night have had far too many Cheesy Music Sadness scenes for my tastes.
The pilot/combat chick looks absolutely silly when she attacks people. She might as well shout "Judo Chop!" ala Austin Powers. The "lone wolf" operative cliche character is a whiny little bitch.
The whole show reminds me of NCIS (the show with the Hot Topics "Goth" chick): Cheesy, predictable, and lame. I guess since I'm not a 12 year old girl, I'm not their target audience.
I'm going back to entertaining TV: COPs re-runs and C-SPAN LIVE coverage of congressional voting.
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Post by: Breotan
AoS seems to be given trash names for their stuff. Scorch was dumb. Centipede is... wow. Just, wow. Like kronk said, a lot of this stuff looks derivative of Austin Powers.
The sad part about Joss Whedon's stuff is that it takes so effing long to go anywhere. I mean a slow build can be good but meandering isn't. Look at Doll House. Season one didn't go anywhere until Joss was told it wouldn't be renewed after the second season. Then he had to cram everything in and reinvent the show for the second (and last) season. Being that it's Marvel and Disney means we're likely going to have to suffer for a while before this show begins to go anywhere.
Seriously, though, Centipede? WTF?
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Post by: Mathieu Raymond
I got the feeling that centipede was just a placeholder name until they can actually figure out how these guys call themselves?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I actually enjoyed the scenes where Coulson was angry. To me it was very believable. I've always wanted Whedon shows for the interactions between main characters, the rest of the plots are icing on the cake. I think that's why Doll House never did it for me because you couldn't rely on "the characters" remaining the same all the time.
And at first I was wondering why Eliza Dushku didn't get Skye's role (they look so much alike), but I might perjure myself in saying this: I think she can be subtler, and act better than ED.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Last episode was meh. I'm now waiting for the show to get to the point.
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Post by: KamikazeCanuck
I was surprised a women was actually incinerated in the last one. Maybe the show will get more of an edge as it goes on.
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Post by: AlexHolker
KamikazeCanuck wrote:I was surprised a women was actually incinerated in the last one. Maybe the show will get more of an edge as it goes on.
So was I. First I was surprised that they showed the SHIELD Agent with a fist-sized hole burnt through his chest, but it didn't take them long to one-up themselves.
The villains weren't as good as last week's. Both surprised me, but this was just Freddy Kruger stuff while forcing one hostage to act as the other hostage's handler shows that they are ruthless and smart. And the woman resigning herself to carrying out their dirty work due to the constant surveillance and threat of torture felt more grounded than Scorch's "Who's laughing now?" schtick.
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Post by: AduroT
I liked the whole "They gave him a name" thing.
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Post by: Paradigm
Once more, I liked it. Maybe some areas were a bit cliched in places, and Skye and Fitz-Simmons have yet to grow on me (the scene at the end about Skye's family did add some much-needed depth, but not enough yet). Couslon , May and Ward were all pretty good, as usual. The idea about some Super-people just taking the name to be remembered was also an interesting twist.
I like the contrast between the espionage/techy theme of the last one and this week's more action-orientated style. I also like the fact that the plot does seem to be going somewhere, albeit slowly. This is really the first concrete reference to a plot arc we've had, as the frequent references to the Rising Tide were pretty meaningless.
Not my favourite, but still perfectly watchable.
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Post by: Ma55ter_fett
 Kain wrote:When is it out in South Africa? And on what channel of DSTV can I find it on?
I think they're all on Hulu.com
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Post by: Platuan4th
Blame regular Marvel for that. Not only is he an existing character(though his real name in comics is Johnny Ng, he's a pyrokinetic mutant), there's been two other Scorches in 616 alone.
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Post by: pities2004
Last nights episode takes place right after Thor 2, best episode to date.
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Post by: kronk
Only one Judo Chop moment last night. The very end was nice. I bet she's great in the sack.
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Post by: Breotan
But which of those three kids was he? You'd think one of the two at the well but the third kid actually looked like him.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
That's what I thought. The older mean kid looked like Ward.
It'd be an interesting plot twist if he was the antagonist in his backstory, and not the victim.
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Post by: kronk
Did not think of that, HBMC...
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Post by: TheMeanDM
I believe I heard the boy in the well calling out the name "Grant". And I think I heard the skinny bully kid say the name Grant as well. Therefore, I propose that Grant was the kid lowering the rope...being told to hold off by the other boy.
* * * *
I liked the most recent episode the most, besides the pilot. I thought it was very interesting how they incorporated the norse berserker into the story...and loved how torn Coulson was about the staff and hearing about the "you aren't cleared for that" news.
And just because Ward went in with Mae, doesn't mean they did anything.
People who have been through similar traumatic experiences don't have to get sexual with each other. Often times, it's more intimate for them to share their experiences and just let it all out than any sexual encounter could ever be.
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Post by: AduroT
I wish my nightmares consisted of a relaxing massage in Tahiti...
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Post by: greenskin lynn
AduroT wrote:I wish my nightmares consisted of a relaxing massage in Tahiti...
well, first you have to get shanked while working for a secret agent
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Post by: Ahtman
If you missed it, Johnathan Frakes aka Commander Riker directed this episode.
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Post by: Breotan
Jonathan Frakes is a pretty decent television director. His movies lack that certain something (they scream TELEVISION) but outside of that...
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Post by: Compel
Peter MacNicol really should stop messing around with cursed artifacts. It never ends well.
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Post by: AegisGrimm
Simmons is so gratifyingly nerd-hot..........
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Post by: Compel
Nope, sorry, Felicity Smoak wins that title.
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Post by: notprop
I'm pretty sure getting a model and putting her in glasses doesn't count as nerd-hot.
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Post by: Paradigm
I liked the last one, nice link to Thor without being at all spoilery for those of us who haven't seen TDW. Ward's backstory and more about Coulson's history was interesting to see.
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Post by: Breotan
Here's an article that indicates other people are seeing what we're seeing with SHIELD. Pictures included to help Frazzled maintain interest.
Leo Sun wrote:Marvel’s Agents of SHIELD Needs to Fix These 3 Big Mistakes
Back in September, I discussed Marvel's Agents of SHIELD, an ambitious attempt by Disney (NYSE: DIS ) to expand the Marvel Cinematic Universe -- dominated by Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, and Captain America -- onto the small screen.
It was the first time that a movie franchise and a television one co-existed in the same universe, and I initially believed that it would eventually tap into the creative richness of the Marvel comic universe on which it was based.
Unfortunately, I've been dead wrong so far. After watching nine episodes of this show, I'm disappointed that Joss Whedon -- the writer and director of The Avengers -- still hasn't breathed any of his trademark magic into this once promising new franchise.
The good news is that the show hasn't completely tanked -- its ratings recently climbed 4% week-over-week to a Nielsen rating of 2.5 -- a steep drop from the rating of 4.7 for its premiere, but a major improvement from the low of 2.2 it hit earlier this month.
However, fans might not be as forgiving if the show doesn't make some big changes soon. Let's take a look at three of Agents of SHIELD's biggest mistakes, and how Joss Whedon's team can rectify them before this show suffers the same fate as Whedon's Firefly, which was cancelled in 2002 by Fox before the first season even completed.
Mistake #1: Built on faulty 1990s logic
Whedon is one of those directors who has done well on the big screen (The Avengers, The Cabin in the Woods) but has produced mixed results on television.
Agents of SHIELD suffers from dated storytelling techniques that Whedon carries over from his previous shows, such as Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the successful 1997 reboot of a mediocre 1992 film, and Dollhouse, the 2009 series that featured people turned into programmable "dolls" to assume any identity.
Agents of SHIELD uses the same "monster of the week" formula as Buffy, the fights are choreographed in a similar manner, and special effects -- such as lasers, flames, and superpowers -- aren't terribly convincing. Like Dollhouse, Agents of SHIELD is scripted with plenty of unconvincing pseudo "geek speak" -- Skye, Agents Fitz, and Agent Simmons constantly prattle on about "TCP/IP" and "firmware and hardware" -- terms that were apparently copied off the settings of a Wi-Fi router.
Due to these influences, Agents of SHIELD feels like a show trapped in the 1990s -- an age when shows like Buffy, Angel, Xena: Warrior Princess, and Hercules were passable forms of entertainment.
Back then, photogenic two-dimensional characters were acceptable -- but today, in the age of Lost, 24, Breaking Bad, and The Dark Knight, audiences expect deeper, more flawed characters being driven by more than an innate desire to save the world.
Mistake #2: Not "Marvelous" enough
That leads into Agents of SHIELD's second major flaw -- it is losing its connection to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. The show occasionally uses plot devices from the films, such as the Extremis virus from Iron Man 3 and the Tesseract from Thor, to remind viewers that they are still in the Marvel Universe.
However, if the names of these devices were changed, the SHIELD team would simply be just another team of scientist-slash-government agents investigating supernatural events -- a tired concept that we have already seen done better in The X-Files and Fringe.
Audiences, seeing the Marvel page flip logo at the beginning of every episode, have come to expect bigger, flashier things from the Marvel Universe -- things that Whedon's team simply can't deliver on a smaller budget. There's no moment in Agents of SHIELD that matches the impact of Iron Man's suit catching up to him, Thor smashing his hammer, or Hulk smashing Loki into the ground at the climax of The Avengers.
Early on, Agents of SHIELD featured some cameos of other characters, such as Agent Maria Smith (Cobie Smulders) and a Nick Fury (Samuel L. Jackson). Since then, however, no other characters from the films have appeared. Even a widely hyped crossover with Thor: The Dark World in episode 8 featured nothing more than the SHIELD team on cleanup duty after the battle in Greenwich.
Therefore, as Agents of SHIELD drifts farther away from the Marvel Universe, its initial charm will wear off, and eventually more unfavorable comparisons to The X-Files and Fringe will emerge.
Mistake #3: Lack of compelling story arcs or backstories
Last but not least, we need to discuss the show's timing. Agents of SHIELD is sticking with its "monster of the week" formula in a time when most TV shows favor serialized story arcs.
The show's only major story arc is the mystery of Agent Coulson's miraculous resurrection after being impaled by Loki in The Avengers. Every few episodes there's a little hint dropped that "Tahiti," where Coulson claims he went after he died, isn't what it seems.
The writers are obviously counting on that mystery to keep viewers coming back, but in the meantime, we get hit-and-miss stories of a deranged scientist transformed into the Marvel villain Graviton, a cheesy pyrokinetic guy named "Scorch," and an invisible stalker.
It's a lot like what Whedon did with Dollhouse -- the series started off far too slowly with weekly episodes in which the main character, Echo (Eliza Dushku), was sent on bland missions programmed as various people and "rebooted" after each mission. The story didn't start picking up until the second season, when it was revealed that Echo could actually inherit all of her previously programmed personalities, but by then ratings had tanked and the show was cancelled.
Agents of SHIELD might eventually introduce an interesting, compelling story arc to keep us tuned in every week, but for now, it's getting off to a very sluggish start. In an age when people use DVRs and streaming to watch TV shows, there's no reason not to use serialized story arcs to keep viewers coming back for more.
A final thought
Despite these problems, I believe that Agents of SHIELD can still be salvaged, with a clearer direction, better written characters, and more compelling story arcs.
However, I think that upcoming efforts from Time Warner's DC to hit the small screen -- such as Gotham, Constantine, and The Flash -- could run into similar problems. Gotham, which imagines Gotham City before Batman, will be a particularly problematic one.
By centering on Commissioner Gordon's early career in the Gotham police force, it removes the most appealing part of the franchise -- Batman -- from the equation, just as Agents of SHIELD removed the four main Avengers from the story.
Therefore, dear readers, that leads to an interesting final question -- will Agents of SHIELD succeed in its efforts to ride the coattails of The Avengers' success, or will these mistakes eventually sink this ambitious attempt to marry Marvel movies and television?
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Post by: KamikazeCanuck
I agree with those criticisms. This show may actually be hurting Marvel's brand a bit.
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Post by: AduroT
Eh, I find it perfectly entertaining and I'm fine with a "Buffy formula" show.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
The article's mostly right.
Here's the first four paragraphs from a recent review on the A.V. Club. I liked the episode (the reviewer did not), but I can't help but agree with what they're saying here:
Marvel’s Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. is almost at the halfway point of its first season and it has no idea what kind of TV show it is trying to be. My gut instinct is to call it a children’s show due to its simplistic storylines and generally light-hearted tone, but then there are moments like Grant and Melinda’s alcohol-fueled hookup that push the show into more adult territory. This week, the team faces off against the unrequited lover of a young woman that was working on a particle accelerator, a man who gained the ability to teleport to and from an alien dimension after getting caught in an explosion when he sabotaged the accelerator to get a girl’s attention. It’s an exceptionally juvenile plotline for a show that is allegedly about a group of people working for the world’s most powerful peacekeeping organization, and indicates that the creative team has little interest in actually exploring the Marvel Cinematic Universe on this series.
I was going to grade “Repairs” in C territory until I remembered that show-runners Jed Whedon and Maurissa Tancharoen wrote this episode. With most shows, episodes scripted by the show-runners are a good indicator of the progress being made and the direction moving forward, and if this is what the next half of the season is going to be like, it’s going to be one rough ride. I can’t speak for the larger S.H.I.E.L.D. fandom, but episodes like this are not what I’m looking for from this show. To start, the lack of an overarching storyline is absolutely killing this show; there’s not even a consistent villain yet. The procedural aspect is completely uninteresting, mostly because there’s very little actual procedure involved, just dumb luck and touch-screen gadgets. When Tobias the Dimension-Hopping Psychopath smashes his wrench into FitzSimmons’ blue console, I cheered because maybe the team would have to actually do some sort of actual investigating. High-tech gadgets are cool, but things become very uninteresting when they’re the primary problem solvers.
Right now, S.H.I.E.L.D. is a boring procedural stuck in a case-of-the-week rut with no larger direction and a tangential connection to a superhero universe that is packed with more fruitful storytelling opportunities. There’s such a rich comic-book mythology for this show to pull from, but after nine episodes we’ve gotten Graviton, the Overkill Device, and Victoria Hand. Yippee. There are hundreds upon hundreds of characters that this show could take from the comics that would get Marvel fans more excited than random people like Hannah Hutchins and Tobias Ford, and they don’t even have to be major players. Using established characters makes the series feel like its actually part of a bigger Marvel Universe, rather than just any show about secret agents investigating strange occurrences. And no, Asgardian “berserker warriors” aren’t going to cut it.
One of the most frustrating things about this series is the incredulity of the characters when it comes to unnatural events. When the team learns about Hannah Hutchins’ current situation, which on the surface looks like the manifestation of telekinetic powers, their first reaction is that telekinesis just isn’t possible. These are people that live in a world where a man turns into a giant rampaging green monster when he gets angry. Just a week ago they were cleaning up the fallout of an attack on London by alien dark elves. I imagine the agents’ befuddlement is fairly confusing to Marvel fans who don’t know that Fox’s ownership of the X-Men means mutants are prohibited from appearing in the MCU, but worse than that, it’s just plain silly for these seemingly highly intelligent agents to find natural superhuman abilities implausible in an environment where the extraordinary happens all the time. Telekinesis is totally wacky, but a man that teleports through an alien dimension is conceivable? It’s a strange double standard that frankly doesn’t need to exist on this show.
Agents of SHIELD needs to stop skirting the edges of the MCU and just dive right in.
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Post by: Compel
I've got to agree, it's a bit like they're afraid of doing so.
Whereas, conversely, Arrow is plunging headfirst into it. - The recent episodes have been introducing The League of Assassins, Ra's Al Ghul, Brother Blood, Bronze Tiger, Amanda Waller, Black Canary, Isabel Roschev and very strong hints to The Flash turning up later on in the season.
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Post by: AlexHolker
One of the most frustrating things about this series is the incredulity of the characters when it comes to unnatural events. When the team learns about Hannah Hutchins’ current situation, which on the surface looks like the manifestation of telekinetic powers, their first reaction is that telekinesis just isn’t possible. These are people that live in a world where a man turns into a giant rampaging green monster when he gets angry. Just a week ago they were cleaning up the fallout of an attack on London by alien dark elves. I imagine the agents’ befuddlement is fairly confusing to Marvel fans who don’t know that Fox’s ownership of the X-Men means mutants are prohibited from appearing in the MCU, but worse than that, it’s just plain silly for these seemingly highly intelligent agents to find natural superhuman abilities implausible in an environment where the extraordinary happens all the time. Telekinesis is totally wacky, but a man that teleports through an alien dimension is conceivable? It’s a strange double standard that frankly doesn’t need to exist on this show.
Oh yes. Flat Earth Atheism is not an endearing trait.
And it's frustrating that they had the perfect opportunity to introduce Luke Cage in the first episode but didn't (just replace the actor and swap the character's name to Carl Lucas), but then gave us an F-lister like Graviton. I was reading the Thunderbolts comics when he was in them, and I still had no clue who he was. Luke Cage means Heroes for Hire, which means Luke Cage and Iron Fist starting the superhero version of a private investigation slash private military company, which offers a ton of interesting story opportunities. What does Graviton offer?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
To be fair, Marvel are doing a Luke Cage and Iron Fist series on Netflix along with Daredevil and Jessica Jones.
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Post by: AlexHolker
H.B.M.C. wrote:To be fair, Marvel are doing a Luke Cage and Iron Fist series on Netflix along with Daredevil and Jessica Jones.
Sure, for the Defenders. The premise of the Defenders is significantly less awesome than the premise of Heroes for Hire.
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Post by: Hulksmash
I hadn't watched Shield in two weeks and went back and caught up. It's getting better. Not amazing or anything but better. I hope Whedon ramps it up faster than Serenity or Dollhouse. Not that I think NBC will cancel it based on it's current veiwership and the money being put in to keep "The Avengers" in everyone's minds. Just that it would be nice for it to pick up like the second season of Dollhouse did.
And next week Gunn....I mean that dude from episode one...is back. Which could be interesting.
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Post by: bbb
It would be nice if when they cast new people for the films, their contracts stipulated they had to be in at least one episode of AoS. That would be a nice way to introduce Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver without them just showing up in Avengers 2.
I also hope they use AoS to lead into Ultron because it seems like going into Avengers 2 without prior build-up would be a waste and I'm not sure how Cap2 and GotG are going to add to it.
With Avengers, they used Thor and Captain America really well to build the set-up, but for Avengers 2, there doesn't seem to be anything Ultron related going on in the movies.
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