This seems like a fun idea for a thread. If you could change one thing about the game what would it be? Could be a core rule or a unit entry or whatever you want. It doesn't have to be balanced (after all, what fun would that be...) but if you actually want to balance something that works.

Here's mine: it's the enigma foundries from Cyriss. They basically get soul tokens from friendly models and can spend those tokens as a *Action to put your models back on the board. All I want is for them to add "additionally, enemy models never gain soul tokens from friendly models in this unit's control area." I would play Axis tier and troll Cryx so hard...

I'd make more models plastic.

I'd fix tough in some way to make it less streaky. right now, a hot or cold streak of 5+ rolls can literally make or break a game, in a way that few other rolls really can.

My fix would be to make tough a 4+, but not allow knocked down models to make tough checks at all.

 sing your life wrote:
I'd make more models plastic.

I second this.
And that is only about it that I would change.

New hordes faction

I would do the following.

Cinerators: Lose Relentless Advance, gain Defensive Line. Or become 4/7 for a min/max unit.

Paladins: Gain following stance. Flashing Blade: During its Activation, this model may forfeit either its movement or action to immediately make a single normal attack with one of its melee weapons against every enemy model within its melee range and LoS. These attacks are simultaneous.

Deadnight wrote:
New hordes faction

Interesting. Anybody have any ideas what they could add in? I don't know much Iron Kingdoms fluff. Is there something else out there they already have or would they just make something up.

There are a few rumors.

The most probable is that it will be the Zu. from the southern continent. Its where the Totem Hunter is from. So a Zulu type faction, maybe with insect type warbeasts.

People are also wishlisting for the Giants to get a book. Army of Huge bases FTW!

Honestly, we're probably looking at Cephalyx.

Given what I know of their fluff, and the fact they already have a few units, I would doubt they'll get their own book. They seem too reclusive to be anything more than bit players.

Which is why stuff like this keeps popping up?

Interesting. I haven't seen anything like that before.

But I still think they wouldn't make much sense, unless they got a major fleshing out in the fluff department. They just seem like a species content to sit in the shadows and do nothing major.

I would ban about half the users on the PP forum

I also third the post about more plastic. However, I'd make it real GW-like plastic, with sprues for more posable minis.

 dementedwombat wrote:

Deadnight wrote:
New hordes faction

Interesting. Anybody have any ideas what they could add in? I don't know much Iron Kingdoms fluff. Is there something else out there they already have or would they just make something up.

I disagree on cephalyx - if anything, cephalyx are too closely affiliated with crux to warrant their own faction.

Zu is a decent shout. Almost a blank slate to work with. But I don't think its s money shot.

My money is on infernals. Too many one liners throughout the fluff hinting at them. The old d20 RPGs materiel gave a great, if limited run down on their culture, but left it obvious that thru have big plans for Caen. Back this with the hints that Thamar got the gift of magic from them, and the new rpg materials hints (the order of the illumination are getting awfully antsy lately) that humanity's debt for its magic is now due.

Also, infernals offer something important- a reasonable scope for entry into the game. Bunch of infernallists, who already exist, paving the way. It's easier than bringing in a faction from another continent. Where would such invade? On what pretext? Are they on safari? And how can they be in conflict with all the factions in a vast geographic area? Infernals don't have that issue.

Second thing going for infernals is the nature of their magic, and their 'beasts' which are soul constructs. The rpg material lists a whole bunch of their monsters, and they're quite interesting. If you ask me, they're perfect for being fueled by the 'fury' mechanic.

I'm gonna stick my neck out and call it : infernals for the next hordes faction.

An excellent hypothesis. I'd put even money on that.

It actually gives something different for Beasts. Almost as different from normal beasts as Cyriss Vectors are from Warjacks.

Maybe they'll have different aspects.

Give cygnar a non merc multi wound tar pit unit worth playing.

I would really love to see some insect beasts. That would be a cool thing. Of course if Infernals already have a background then they could get some good stuff going on.

Beasts can take damage to get rid of fury? Might be cool. Probably break the game in half...but on paper so does "your jacks get to give focus away when you spend it".

Also that weird spider lady picture is totally someone trying to draw Directrix before they knew what she was supposed to be Joke theory...but the runes are seriously very Convergence looking now I'm actually paying attention to it. It's actually starting to freak me out... the similarity is kinda weird in a "messed up evil twin" kinda way

 Grey Templar wrote:
I would do the following.

Cinerators: Lose Relentless Advance, gain Defensive Line. Or become 4/7 for a min/max unit..

OR ... UA that grants DL

On the topic of the new Hordes faction, the three most likely candidates are the Zu, the Infernals (Convergeance were a niche faction from the lore who were expanded upon, the Infernals may well receive the same treatment) and the return of the Orgoth in some shape or form (bit of a long shot, but not impossible). Then again, they could also surprise us with something out of the left field entirely.

Change backswing back to what it was....

Make Conquest's main gun ROF2

Have models for Lucant and Directrix come out tomorrow. Also the lotus pose Warcaster for Retribution.

Have a merc contract that includes Cephalyx

I would like to have Zerkova changed. Swap out some of her spells for things that are a little more useful, and for Werner Klocke to resculpt the model.

 dementedwombat wrote:
I would really love to see some insect beasts. That would be a cool thing. Of course if Infernals already have a background then they could get some good stuff going on.

Beasts can take damage to get rid of fury? Might be cool. Probably break the game in half...but on paper so does "your jacks get to give focus away when you spend it".

Also that weird spider lady picture is totally someone trying to draw Directrix before they knew what she was supposed to be Joke theory...but the runes are seriously very Convergence looking now I'm actually paying attention to it. It's actually starting to freak me out... the similarity is kinda weird in a "messed up evil twin" kinda way

That's because they ARE Convergence runes. The one on the previous Vault read "The baseness of the flesh is horrifically exaggerated in these unnatural creatures, the eyes of Cyriss must never fall on such depravity." Haven't seen the translation on those runes yet. And given that it was released by PP a week or two ago, I'd say it's not early Directrix concept art.

Wait...is Cryx getting bloody Lucidia as a warcaster... kinda fits, but if so the background really should be green.

For those who don't know Lucidia was the one who figured out the whole "put souls in robots" thing for the Convergence. But she did it by kidnapping an Iron Lich and disassembling it until she found its phylactery, then poking it until she figured out how it worked.

The rest of the priesthood didn't like that too much, so they kicked her out of the temple, and she ran off to Cryxland and came back to smash a temple with some abominations later on.

EDIT: except I think she is already in as Mortenebra. So there goes that theory.

I'd love to see new factions, heavy infantry for factions without, more jack support, better use of jack bonds, etc. but I'd rather fix something that wouldn't be inevitable (or at least possible) through expansions.

I'd change the one bad part of the core rules: command. Right now it rarely comes into play but it is devastating when it does. as a player it is one of the few things you have no influence over.

 ImperialFists2ndCompany wrote:
I would like to have Zerkova changed. Swap out some of her spells for things that are a little more useful, and for Werner Klocke to resculpt the model.

How about a Warjack bond that gives it an Arc Node.

 dementedwombat wrote:
I would play Axis tier and troll Cryx so hard...

/shrug... bad Cryx players rely or expect souls.

 dementedwombat wrote:
Wait...is Cryx getting bloody Lucidia as a warcaster... kinda fits, but if so the background really should be green.

EDIT: except I think she is already in as Mortenebra. So there goes that theory.

No thinking required! She is mortenebra

Also some units that are OP but synergise with the rest of the force [really] badly seems a good idea to me.

 Sanctjud wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
I would play Axis tier and troll Cryx so hard...

/shrug... bad Cryx players rely or expect souls.

Eh. The fact that Daeamortus and Harrowers don't work, and deathjack can't gain souls is enough for me.

A universal Arc node for Minions that either pact could utilize. Calaban and Arkadius would see more play.

Remove Force Barrier for Satyxis.

Make the Mt. King Mat 6, ARM 20, more hit boxes.

Make the Archangel Range 12, ARM 19, more hit boxes, and flaming fists animus.

Give trolls better fury management and arc nodes.

I would make Disruption add a Fury to enemy beasts per hit, and cortex damage weapons should damage Spirit.

While I understand that we cannot have quite as a distrupting effect on beasts than on warjacks, due to beasts being a lot more integral to the warlock's operation than jacks, all this tech that was designed before Hordes NEEDs to do something. As it stands, it makes things too matchup dependent for my liking for many choices in the Cygnar codex.

Serious Answer

Create some sort of system for more frequent rules and balance updates.

Auxuliary Answer

Either ban massive pauldrons, or make them mandatory.

Tertiary Answer

I would kill off casters and charactesr in the fluff.


I would explain that the nature of the fantasy world means that they might come back (so that they could get an Epic version for example) and that they're still totally usable in every table and tournament. Nothing at all is stopping you from using this 'historical figure' in our ever-evolving games.

However, the character would be dead. Soul on Urcaen. Gone. No more plot revelations.They're dead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Laughing Man wrote:
Which is why stuff like this keeps popping up?

Has anyone translated the runes?

Not that I've seen yet. I've got the Cyriss font on my computer, but I'm too damn lazy to actually sit down and translate it myself.

There's a cyriss font... well then... that's a thing (runs off to the interwebs)

Moar epic stuffs.

Epic Reinholdt!

Epic Cryxchev!

Epic Darius's Ear!

But they've already done eReinholdt.

A Khador Arc Node.
Seriously do thy not know how to scavenge? Pick one up from a Flipping wrecked bone chicken If an old hag can do it in her bakc yard, Im sure some of khadors best engineers can.
Also, Jacks that seem less human based. Maybe odd jacks that have four arms or have spider legs.
Dinosaurs, Because eveerything is better with Dinos

I think, given the nature of how Arc Nodes actually work, you have to specially tune the Node to your specific magic. Cygnar, the Protectorate, Ios, and Khador all have unique styles of magic. They aren't compatible with the same Arc Node configuration.

Khador probably sees this extra effort as not worth it. Better to melt down the Arc Node to make more Cortexes instead.

But the old witch did it. She made an Arc Node from scavenging it.

Yes, she did it herself. But she isn't affiliated with anything official in Khador. She probably isn't going to share anything about how she got that Arc Node working and nobody would be stupid enough to ask her.

Khador simply sees Arc Nodes as being a waste of precious resources that could be used to make Cortexes instead. They don't have the luxury of making, or scavenging, arc nodes when they need every gram of those materials to be made into Cortexes. They're so desperate they aren't even retiring Bezerker cortexes that are hundreds of years old, when anybody else would have long ago scrapped them.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
But the old witch did it. She made an Arc Node from scavenging it.

She's the spirit of Khador. She does what she wants.

Note that she hasn't taught anyone else to use a Feast of Crows

I JUST WANT AN ARC NODE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Plz, just give us one, you can make it a Char Jack.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I JUST WANT AN ARC NODE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Plz, just give us one, you can make it a Char Jack.

We have one that's a character jack.

I'm just kidding. It would be cool to have one.

Wouldn't it be cool for all the factions to have overpriced character versions of stuff they don't have?

Khador >>> Arc Node
Protectorate >>> Pathfinder

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
But the old witch did it. She made an Arc Node from scavenging it.

The old witch is an ancient non-human demi-god who draws power from the lands of Khador. I don't think that's quite a fair comparison.

While the idea of an Arc-node isn't so bad for Khador, I think these sorts of deficiencies help to add a bit more difference to factions, just like there aren't any Weapon Masters (except Sloan) or heavy infantry in Cygnar, no Weapon Attachments in Protectorate, and so on. There are small deficiencies that help mark factions apart, even if they're not hard and fast rules.

I may be wrong, But are not All Arc Nodes light?
Maybe Khador can be the one with the Heavy Arc

The Protectorate has the Guardian. its a heavy jack with an Arc Node. Sadly its slightly overpriced.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I may be wrong, But are not All Arc Nodes light?
Maybe Khador can be the one with the Heavy Arc

Ret also has the Phoenix. That thing is vicious.

Retribution has the Phoenix - a 10-point monstrosity.

Cyriss has individual MEN who are arc nodes.

I think Ret has the most Arc nodes period.

Also make vinter a playable warcaster

Vinter actually doesn't have any magical ability I recently learned. He's just so damn good with a sword he beat an entire empire of animal abusers into submission.

fishy bob wrote:
I would ban about half the users on the PP forum

Funny you mention that. I went there for a rules clarification once, and got nothing but arse replies and personal attacks. I mean, I frequent 4chan, so this isn't really something that gets to me at all, but I was a bit disgusted at the lack of moderation on the official forums.

Never going back. Nothing of value lost.

Khador have arc nodes. Every single khadoran carries an arc node in the form of an axe, and they all channel PAIN!!!

Serious answer. No to khador arc nodes. It's one of their signature traits. However, I'm quite for a 'meat' node. Have a grey lord solo that can channel his warcasters spells. Kinda like the circle gallows grove. If it's or girth tech, it might be funny if that thing can swallow souls too. Fits khador nicely!

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Also make vinter a playable warcaster

'I win' would be his special rule. Vinter is like toruk - simply far too badass for the tabletop.

If you're interested though, there were alternative history cards released in mi1 for some casters (kind of a what if scenario) - vlad was with the protectorate, eiryss was a legion warlock, Magnus and Stryker swapped roles, the old witch served the circle etc. and Vinter was playable. Believe me though, he was a monster.

 Necroshea wrote:

fishy bob wrote:
I would ban about half the users on the PP forum

Funny you mention that. I went there for a rules clarification once, and got nothing but arse replies and personal attacks. I mean, I frequent 4chan, so this isn't really something that gets to me at all, but I was a bit disgusted at the lack of moderation on the official forums.

Never going back. Nothing of value lost.

I hear you. The amount of assholery that takes place in the army list sections is the reason I never registered.

fishy bob wrote:

 Necroshea wrote:

fishy bob wrote:
I would ban about half the users on the PP forum

Funny you mention that. I went there for a rules clarification once, and got nothing but arse replies and personal attacks. I mean, I frequent 4chan, so this isn't really something that gets to me at all, but I was a bit disgusted at the lack of moderation on the official forums.

Never going back. Nothing of value lost.

I hear you. The amount of assholery that takes place in the army list sections is the reason I never registered.

Really? Hmm. I guess I never bothered to head into list sections. Too much group think.

Old Witch gets an Arc-Node cause she worked for the precursor to Circle. She was there before there was a Khador. Just like Asphyxious was in the Schardes before there was a Cryx.

Also, since it's already in the works ( I think), the Merc Cephalyx contract would be interesting. This new unit/caster from Part 2 of the Equilibrium fluff seems to have some mind control abilities to allow it to run a Merc contract. Seems to have the spells influence and maybe crippling grasp.

 gunslingerpro wrote:

fishy bob wrote:

 Necroshea wrote:

fishy bob wrote:
I would ban about half the users on the PP forum

Funny you mention that. I went there for a rules clarification once, and got nothing but arse replies and personal attacks. I mean, I frequent 4chan, so this isn't really something that gets to me at all, but I was a bit disgusted at the lack of moderation on the official forums.

Never going back. Nothing of value lost.

I hear you. The amount of assholery that takes place in the army list sections is the reason I never registered.

Really? Hmm. I guess I never bothered to head into list sections. Too much group think.

That's what I said. Assholery

I would make Reeves a little more worthwhile. Cause the models are just so pretty.

fishy bob wrote:

 gunslingerpro wrote:

fishy bob wrote:

 Necroshea wrote:

fishy bob wrote:
I would ban about half the users on the PP forum

Funny you mention that. I went there for a rules clarification once, and got nothing but arse replies and personal attacks. I mean, I frequent 4chan, so this isn't really something that gets to me at all, but I was a bit disgusted at the lack of moderation on the official forums.

Never going back. Nothing of value lost.

I hear you. The amount of assholery that takes place in the army list sections is the reason I never registered.

Really? Hmm. I guess I never bothered to head into list sections. Too much group think.

That's what I said. Assholery

I would make Reeves a little more worthwhile. Cause the models are just so pretty.

No EMorvahna for you?

 malfred wrote:
No EMorvahna for you?

I hate her in the fluff, and I prefer living things over constructs, so I'm not a fan of baldur either. I hate that those are the go to casters of the faction, and get included in every reply as what you should be fielding to questions like "I suck, how do I get better?".

I hope we get a solid egrayle some day.

 Necroshea wrote:

 malfred wrote:
No EMorvahna for you?

I hate her in the fluff, and I prefer living things over constructs, so I'm not a fan of baldur either. I hate that those are the go to casters of the faction, and get included in every reply as what you should be fielding to questions like "I suck, how do I get better?".

I hope we get a solid egrayle some day.

I'm not referring to eMorvahna as a "go-to." I'm talking about the evil Reeves tactic with her.

Bring War Wolves. Let them die (don't let them get eaten).

Bring them back with the feat with a charge lane at a 'caster.

Shoot with Reeves, Scales of Fate to make it stick. War Wolves charge out of activation.

It's terrifyingly sick.

Page Five.


Too many players just seem to forget their second-degree detector when they read that one.

 malfred wrote:

Wouldn't it be cool for all the factions to have overpriced character versions of stuff they don't have?

Khador>>> Arc Node
Protectorate >>> Pathfinder

Not sure if this one is serious, but I could see it as being cool just to have like one character option to mix things up. Cost it a little too much for what it does, but have it be there if you want to surprise someone.

 Litcheur wrote:
Page Five.


Too many players just seem to forget their second-degree detector when they read that one.

If PP made a poster of page 5, I'd frame it and hang it on my wall . I can understand how people could get annoyed over it, but I just think it's hilarious. Apparently they toned it down some for mk2 though.

Whenever I read page 5 I think it is a parody of the WAAC and TFG attitude, not meant to be taken seriously

fishy bob wrote:

 Necroshea wrote:

fishy bob wrote:
I would ban about half the users on the PP forum

Funny you mention that. I went there for a rules clarification once, and got nothing but arse replies and personal attacks. I mean, I frequent 4chan, so this isn't really something that gets to me at all, but I was a bit disgusted at the lack of moderation on the official forums.

Never going back. Nothing of value lost.

I hear you. The amount of assholery that takes place in the army list sections is the reason I never registered.

Strange, I've never encountered that on the Menoth, Skorne, or rule question forums. Must be isolated to particular factions.

Or things have simply been cleaned up since you were last there.

Deadnight wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Also make vinter a playable warcaster

'I win' would be his special rule. Vinter is like toruk - simply far too badass for the tabletop.

If you're interested though, there were alternative history cards released in mi1 for some casters (kind of a what if scenario) - vlad was with the protectorate, eiryss was a legion warlock, Magnus and Stryker swapped roles, the old witch served the circle etc. and Vinter was playable. Believe me though, he was a monster.

Have you seen Hierarch Voyle's stats? Makes Vinter look like a little puppy. I think you're legally allowed to destroy your opponent's model after doing his Holy Force attack.

@Grey Templar. A Cyriss army lead by the Iron Mother has the most Arc Nodes in the game. She's only limited by how many points you play provided you only take Vectors. Everything in her Battlegroup is an Arc Node.

Ahhh yes. Iron Mother's Field Marshal ability.

Shrapnel Swarm is pretty powerful when you can basically put it anywhere you want.

I'd like to see Reeves of Orboros get another point of Rat and maybe 1-2 pow increase. Right now they are just way too expensive for what they do, which is "Be worse than equal points of Wold Shrimp or Blood Trackers + Nuala." A UA and solo that buff them, and they still just don't cut it. (And arguably the UA makes them a worse buy for the points...)

I might give Grayle another point of Str or a better spell, but really he doesn't seem bad, just sort of in the wrong army sometimes.
Much like Zerkova... she needs "Warjack Bond: Arc Node" or an ability like Vayle that lets her shoot her own jacks to channel through them. Or she needs to be in Circle.

Barring all that... knock a point of some of Circle's light beasts, save maybe the Woldwatcher. It is really hard to justify most of them when they compete against warpwolves. I would take 3 argus at 3 points a pop sometimes, or at least one, but not at 4. And the wold wyrd...
Y U 5 POINT RNG 10 POW 10 !?!

Surely the Gorax wouldn't be included in that 1 point drop?

Oh no.... oh gods no.

He actually could be 5 points... but let's not get crazy

OOOH i got one. Sorscha Calvary caster

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
OOOH i got one. Sorscha Calvary caster

I'm picturing Sorscha on a Wrack....

CAVALRY. Calvary is the site where Jesus was crucified.

mmmmm.... Sorscha on a rack... yummy...


wait... what?

 Wehrkind wrote:
mmmmm.... Sorscha on a rack... yummy...


wait... what?

A Great Rack perhaps?

Yay for fun with similar words...but I really don't know if we should start going down this road again. Didn't we just have a thread that ended up being a discussion on whether a Protectorate Caster's *ahem* "holy scepter" would count as a blessed weapon?

I heard Scarr has a great wrack

 Grey Templar wrote:
I heard Scarr has a great wrack

Aye, and she's quite a horny satyxis too.


Innuendo.... Reach weapon, weapon master, corrosion (not a good thing!) take your pick. Seriously, let's not do this.

Trying to make a "Reznik is a pimp" joke because he has so many Wracks on display... but I just can't make myself.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
OOOH i got one. Sorscha Calvary caster

I'm picturing Sorscha on a Wrack....

CAVALRY. Calvary is the site where Jesus was crucified.

Ummm, I meant that, She woud be a Protectorate Warcaster.

If Grayle's theme wasn't so lacking, I would have to model up a Pimp Grayle... for all the bitches in his battle group.


See what I did there?

Here is a serious Idea. Epic versions of casters that are defectors or treasonous. You could have had Sorscha betrayed by Vlad and have her become a Mercenary caster(Just an Idea) Or have other casters defect to other nations.

Well the new full warcaster released for the Kickstarter pulls a Cryx on everybody.

Prime version is a Cygnar caster, Epic version is a Cryx epic warcaster.

Yeah, More of that, makes the game world feel like it is evolving.

I wouldn't worry about it. They'll kill people off eventually, people that aren't Cryx too!

For the Protectorate, all the fluff is basically hinting and leading up to Severius's death. Fit's going to hit the Shan real soon. Feora's in cahoots with Magnus/Vinter and Kreoss was last seen rushing off to rescue the Heirarch from an attack by Vlad.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Here is a serious Idea. Epic versions of casters that are defectors or treasonous. You could have had Sorscha betrayed by Vlad and have her become a Mercenary caster(Just an Idea) Or have other casters defect to other nations.

I liked the fact that eMagnus can be taken with Skorne (of all bloody things). If anyone actually played multiple warcaster games (which it seems like nobody actually does) then you could have Skorne...with Galleons... Think on that. Or, you know, Molik Karn with bullet dodger. That works too.

I've heard of a few tournaments that have 50 point lists with dual casters/locks.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I wouldn't worry about it. They'll kill people off eventually, people that aren't Cryx too!

For the Protectorate, all the fluff is basically hinting and leading up to Severius's death. Fit's going to hit the Shan real soon. Feora's in cahoots with Magnus/Vinter and Kreoss was last seen rushing off to rescue the Heirarch from an attack by Vlad.

You do realist death isn't the end? If severius dies, he'll just come back as a severius3 vessel of judgement epic warcaster

"Kommander Harkevich, The Iron Wolf – Khador Warcaster" changed to "Preceptor Harkevich, The Iron Wolf - Protectorate Warcaster".

No other changes to the models stats. Dude missed his calling, he'd be bonkers powerful in Protectorate.

Honestly, make Pathfinder a bit harder to get.

As a 40k player i like terrain heavy boards, but since i dont play one of the races that are either entirely or basically entirely Pathfinder'd it screws me over.

I agree only Circle should have pathfinder. And damnit, someone teach my Feral Warpwolf how to run through the woods without tripping!

No, not you Argus. Get back under the porch...

That is why harkevich is my favor warcaster. pathfinder for everyone

Deadnight wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I wouldn't worry about it. They'll kill people off eventually, people that aren't Cryx too!

For the Protectorate, all the fluff is basically hinting and leading up to Severius's death. Fit's going to hit the Shan real soon. Feora's in cahoots with Magnus/Vinter and Kreoss was last seen rushing off to rescue the Heirarch from an attack by Vlad.

You do realist death isn't the end? If severius dies, he'll just come back as a severius3 vessel of judgement epic warcaster

O I'm counting on it


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wehrkind wrote:
I agree only Circle should have pathfinder. And damnit, someone teach my Feral Warpwolf how to run through the woods without tripping!

No, not you Argus. Get back under the porch...

Somehow the lumbering rocks can hop and skip merrily through the woods but the wolves and goats are left fumbling, unless you give a wolf a giant sword

 Grey Templar wrote:

fishy bob wrote:

 Necroshea wrote:

fishy bob wrote:
I would ban about half the users on the PP forum

Funny you mention that. I went there for a rules clarification once, and got nothing but arse replies and personal attacks. I mean, I frequent 4chan, so this isn't really something that gets to me at all, but I was a bit disgusted at the lack of moderation on the official forums.

Never going back. Nothing of value lost.

I hear you. The amount of assholery that takes place in the army list sections is the reason I never registered.

Strange, I've never encountered that on the Menoth, Skorne, or rule question forums. Must be isolated to particular factions.

Or things have simply been cleaned up since you were last there.

Definitely none of that in the Skorne forums, maybe some factions are more prone to attract arses?

 Grey Templar wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wehrkind wrote:
I agree only Circle should have pathfinder. And damnit, someone teach my Feral Warpwolf how to run through the woods without tripping!

No, not you Argus. Get back under the porch...

Somehow the lumbering rocks can hop and skip merrily through the woods but the wolves and goats are left fumbling, unless you give a wolf a giant sword

I like to imagine the wolds just smashing through things, while the Feral delicately tip toes through the tulips, unwilling to damage a single flower for those mother f**kers.

Then he has a Coke.

Actually, I should say the Circle forums on PPs site are really great. Lots of good guides and some active members who really help out with things. A little bit of group think centered around two of the world class players that post a lot, but then again, 2-3 world class players post a lot which is a pretty great resource.

 Wehrkind wrote:
I agree only Circle should have pathfinder. And damnit, someone teach my Feral Warpwolf how to run through the woods without tripping!

No, not you Argus. Get back under the porch...

Actually i was thinking the other way...no race should have all pathfinder and there shouldnt be anything outside a feat that enables for the whole army.

Like i said i like terrain heavy boards because it looks more cinematic-like, but i play trolls lol. Im slow as it is and if i have to chase some archers around 3 forests i will never even get a chance because i dont have pathfinder, and their entire army does lol

I was thinking they should be some kind of Warcaster who is weaker than the others but gives lots of Warjack points.

 sing your life wrote:
I was thinking they should be some kind of Warcaster who is weaker than the others but gives lots of Warjack points.

What exactly do you mean (see what I mean about making posts that consist of more than one sentence)? Physically weaker? As you're basically just describing Nemo, Sevvy or Denny (whose theme force for her Prime version gives a free bonejack, effectively giving her up to 10 warjack points if you use said advantage to take a Defiler or a Ripjaw.) Or is it someone with practically zero armour? As that caster already exists in pMorghoul, who already has the highest warnoun points in the game with 7(a number only shared by pHoarluk IIRC.).

If you a make a Warcaster/lock that is perceived as weaker than others no-one will take them. We're looking at you Zerkova and Calaban!

The trouble with more jack points is that it really just turns into "more unit points" without a ton of either upkeep buffs for jacks or built in abilities to do the same. Most casters can't really run multiple jacks without that, as even Focus 8 leaves you pretty limited. It isn't so much the price as the Focus resources that hold you back.
CoC seems like they might solve some of the 'why more than 1 jack?" problem pretty well, as well as the new journeymen coming out pretty soon.

I'd change Page 5. Either remove it entirely or completely rework it from the ground up.

Zond wrote:
I'd change Page 5. Either remove it entirely or completely rework it from the ground up.

Page 5 was changed. As people were using it as an excuse.

So I've been told. I would still change it.

Ok, another random completely gratuitous one for Convergence: give Eradicators combo strike. 2 mat 9 pow 12s are cool... one mat 9 pow 24....

Ok, that's too ridiculous. Some ability to only make one attack at a higher p+s than 12 would be nice.

I am not sure if anyone mention it yet, but I guess I should present it in a Netorare Warmahordes player doujin told in three parts:....

Kossite Woodsman-kun was bought by Mikael when he started to get into Warmachine when it was on the cusp of MK1 to MK2. Mikael played them with a passion since he liked the look of Kossite Woodsman-kun and what he offered although his statline was average to poor, and had what he had to use due to a lack of money when he began. Once Mikael had started to get more into Warmachine and have more access to funds, Kossite Woodsman-kun was started to be used less and less. Kossite Woodsman-kun wanted to deny it at first, but deep down inside, Kossite Woodsman-kun knew that his stats were inferior to all the others choices as Kossite Woodsman-kun saw Mikael take and use Winter Guard Infantry-kun over and over again to his FLGS.

Not told in three parts, but you get the point...

 dementedwombat wrote:
Ok, another random completely gratuitous one for Convergence: give Eradicators combo strike. 2 mat 9 pow 12s are cool... one mat 9 pow 24....

Ok, that's too ridiculous. Some ability to only make one attack at a higher p+s than 12 would be nice.

An Eradicator's combo strike attack if they had one would be POW16 BTW.

Combo strike is the POW of the damage roll is equal to the model's strength plus twice the power of the weapon. So 8+4+4=16

Ahhh...I knew 24 sounded bonkers. Thanks for clearing that up. The things that happen when you read rules really quickly that you're not familiar with.

 Polonius wrote:
I'd fix tough in some way to make it less streaky. right now, a hot or cold streak of 5+ rolls can literally make or break a game, in a way that few other rolls really can.

My fix would be to make tough a 4+, but not allow knocked down models to make tough checks at all.

Any Menoth unit with Rhupert and the Covenant would so break this combo. Same with eCaine and Boomhowlers. Or IFP with the IF Kovnik and eIrusk

I don't really understand the Page 5 hate. It seems to me it sets the tone of the game, one of specifically "Build the most clever, devious list you can. That's part of the game.' To my mind it really avoids the issue GW games have with the "Is it a friendly, just pushing models around for the lols game vs. Is it a serious, mental exercise to win game" dichotomy.

It doesn't seem like PP players grumble about WAAC people ruining it for fluff bunnies like GW players.

Sining wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
I'd fix tough in some way to make it less streaky. right now, a hot or cold streak of 5+ rolls can literally make or break a game, in a way that few other rolls really can.

My fix would be to make tough a 4+, but not allow knocked down models to make tough checks at all.

Any Menoth unit with Rhupert and the Covenant would so break this combo. Same with eCaine and Boomhowlers. Or IFP with the IF Kovnik and eIrusk

To make it less streaky you could just make it an ability check with two dice.

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:
I am not sure if anyone mention it yet, but I guess I should present it in a Netorare Warmahordes player doujin told in three parts:....

Kossite Woodsman-kun was bought by Mikael when he started to get into Warmachine when it was on the cusp of MK1 to MK2. Mikael played them with a passion since he liked the look of Kossite Woodsman-kun and what he offered although his statline was average to poor, and had what he had to use due to a lack of money when he began. Once Mikael had started to get more into Warmachine and have more access to funds, Kossite Woodsman-kun was started to be used less and less. Kossite Woodsman-kun wanted to deny it at first, but deep down inside, Kossite Woodsman-kun knew that his stats were inferior to all the others choices as Kossite Woodsman-kun saw Mikael take and use Winter Guard Infantry-kun over and over again to his FLGS.

Not told in three parts, but you get the point...

until kossite woodsman-kun met eVald, and kossites become monsters

I'd fix tough in some way to make it less streaky. right now, a hot or cold streak of 5+ rolls can literally make or break a game, in a way that few other rolls really can.

My fix would be to make tough a 4+, but not allow knocked down models to make tough checks at all.

My Kriel Warriors would like a word with you. A word of praise for giving them such a crazy buff.

Btw they cant be knocked down and have tough lol

To be fair, for a system based on such a 2d6 bellcurve, having tough only trigger on a single d6 roll is kind of strange.

Actually, needing to roll 9+ on 2d6 is almost the same probability (28 vs 33)...and now I look at it going from "4 plus supertough" to "highest 2 of 3d6 supertough" goes to a 52.3% chance!

Get on this PP.

I think I'd change the way focus works to encourage taking more jacks. Maybe something like 1 free point a turn, with extra's able to be allocated from the caster (up to the max of 3 still). I would then adjust power booster like abilities to be instead of no focus, no focus allocated from the caster.

 derek wrote:
I think I'd change the way focus works to encourage taking more jacks. Maybe something like 1 free point a turn, with extra's able to be allocated from the caster (up to the max of 3 still). I would then adjust power booster like abilities to be instead of no focus, no focus allocated from the caster.

I have to disagree with this. the whole point of focus is "resource management", and what you're doing is essentially not this, by bolting on part of the fury mechanic onto focus in a mistaken belief that this will make people take more jacks, whilst also not applying any of the nagatives of fury. having your cake and eating it, essentially. and it will completely throw balance out the window. in this example, i'll continue taking one jack, which generates its free focus, and will continue my infantry heavy game, with no penalty, but now my caster is automatically sitting on +1ARM. it wont make people field moar jacks. all it does is give warmachine another needless leg up, and skew the games balance (and lets face it, whilst fury is better than focus (although it has more hoops to jump through), we dont balance focus against fury, we balance warmachine against hordes. and its solid.

I'll be honest. I generally like the state of play with warmachine being a more combined arms factions with some jacks, backed up by lots of infantry (backed up by the fluff; jacks are rare) than just being about lots of jacks, for various reasons.

However, i can appreciate the desire for more-jack armies to be more viable. the answer to this, however is not 'more focus', or making jacks work like beasts (go play hordes if you want that). Look at the factions that already can play jack heavy.

Cygnar makes excellent use of jack marshals, Convergence has its focustransfer mechanic, Protectorate and Retribution has excellent anciliarry support pieces. here is where you look. Dont mess up the fury/focus system - its fine as is. But if you want to run more jacks more effectively, you need to realise its not necessarily just 'moar focus' that will doit. its those anciliarry abilities from the choir, from arcanists and from vassals that allow their respective factions to buff their jacks, and run more jack heavy.

So, to summarise, if you want a more-jack approach to be viable, you need to follow a two-pronged approach:
(1) bringing in more ancilliary pieces like arcanists with a variety of boosts for faction jacks. these guys can then fall into a role of 'battlegroup support' and can increase the functionality of a warcasters battlegroup, whilst paying an appropriate price.
(2) increasing the effectiveness of jack marshalls with jack-applied tactics/orders like the skorne tyrant commander does for his infantry. this will allow a more effective use of jacks outside of a battlegroup.

I thinking of having solo models able to swap places with an enemy model if they kill it.

I'd want to see Trencher units tweaked- they are my favorite part of Cygnar, but they are severely underused (last tournament I went to had a single squad of 6, with 4 or 5 Cygnar players running around).

Maybe make the Infantry cost less than anything they will be screening (say, 5/9 or even 5/8). As is, they are a situational screening unit which costs as much as anything they will be guarding, and is really easily negated.

Give Commandos Quick work and/or CRA (seriously, you guys somehow forgot basic training?). Means they could actually be useful while being stealthy, and would get a cool "shank first dude, frag his buddy" ability.

 sing your life wrote:
I thinking of having solo models able to swap places with an enemy model if they kill it.

You do realise how stupidly good that would be with something with Beserk like Fenris?

We have enough of those shenanigans with Kromac and Warpwolf Stalkers....

I'd make the UK prices of plastic models match their US RRPs like the metal models do. Also I'd make Cephalax actual ally models, i.e. give them a mercenary contract. Finally I'd fix and/or release a new theme list for Fiona the Black.

Ok that's three things, but they're the things on my mind at the moment.

IMHO, Man O Wars baddly need a UA or Solo to fix their many shortcomings. They are the first, and worst medium based infantry. If speed isn't changed (and I suspect it won't be), damage output needs to be increased.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
I thinking of having solo models able to swap places with an enemy model if they kill it.

You do realise how stupidly good that would be with something with Beserk like Fenris?

It's would be kind of your fault if you let Fenris into combat, mind.

allow pre-measuring

Soulgrinderxxx wrote:
allow pre-measuring

That'd take a lot of the skill out of the game, honestly. I'm not a big fan of them putting it into other games.

Also, there is some premeasuring already.

I'm pretty happy with most things, but I do think there are a few things that could be changed.

1) Terrain rules. Make more terrain varieties in the core rules (or release more terrain rules in the expansions), and even up some of the terrain rules we have now. Shallow Water is just crap for warmachine armies, and the furnace extinguished thing might be fluffy, but it's annoyingly niggledy when just having the jack go "Stationary" would do, and we wouldn't have to look up a rule book each time to remember how it works.

2) On that note, Jacks going Inert when their warcaster dies. Not huge in most games, but in two player games it means jack heavy lists are crap. Have it so they just go stationary for a turn at most, and other faction war-casters can just spend a focus point to bring them into their battle group.

3) Clean up Prime/Primal for easier reading. Prime is very good for having very clear and exact rules, but its a pain for actually learning with (quick start rules do help with that, of course), and there are often important rules or crevats buried in text that people don't notice that could be better presented. So yeah, a better layout for beginners would be great.

4) Finally, in order to help sportsmanship a bit, have a marker on all the cards if a model has any movement buffs/shenannigans. In fact, one symbol for having a self movement buff (including shenannigans like Side Step, or anything that can increase total threat range), and another for having a buff that can affect others. That would help with sportsmanship in terms of noting and remembering which models have speed buffs/abilities when asking about threat range (which is a dicey sportsmanship issue in some circles).

 dementedwombat wrote:
To be fair, for a system based on such a 2d6 bellcurve, having tough only trigger on a single d6 roll is kind of strange.

Actually, needing to roll 9+ on 2d6 is almost the same probability (28 vs 33)...and now I look at it going from "4 plus supertough" to "highest 2 of 3d6 supertough" goes to a 52.3% chance!

Get on this PP.

If you think about how statistics work, you'll realize that rolling two dice to get a 1/3 chance is going to be just as streaky as rolling one dice with a 1/3 chance, so it won't actually change anything. The bell curve of 2d6 is only important when rolls are being modified by other factors (by having a better or worse stat for instance), rather than being for a straight up set chance.

 Maddermax wrote:


If you think about how statistics work, you'll realize that rolling two dice to get a 1/3 chance is going to be just as streaky as rolling one dice with a 1/3 chance, so it won't actually change anything. The bell curve of 2d6 is only important when rolls are being modified by other factions (by having a better or worse stat for instance), rather than being for a straight up set chance.

My...my brain just 'sploded.

As for Shocktroopers, I doubt you're going to get a damage buff when the
faction has access to pButcher, both Irusks, and the Iron Fang Kovnik.

Stealth rules never made sense to me. Also, if you fail a command check you "should" have to advance at least some minimum amount greater than zero.

Sorry, that's two things

What exactly doesn't make sense about the stealth rules? They've been changed since mk1 so you can at least target the model with it.

You could target them in mk1, too.

 malfred wrote:
You could target them in mk1, too.

*Checks Mk1 book" Ah yes, was misremembering. Question still stands though. What exactly does not make sense about the stealth rules (Aside from the fact Banes possess it. )?