This weekend my gaming club dove into its next escalation league, and needing to get another army painted (and play some Warhammer dammit), I threw in my gibbering tentacular gauntlet. I'll be playing Daemons of Tzeentch over the next five months, starting at 500 points and increasing by 500 each month until we hit 2500 in the spring. We're set to play four games per points level (all will be Battleline with bonus VP adjusted for the various tiers), with a single day event at the end of each tier during which we can score extra league points, as well as a heap more points for getting everything painted by the close of the current points bracket. I'll be doing my damnedest to tell you about the games as they come, though no promises will be made as to the format, content or consistency of said reports

Without further ado, let the carnage begin

THE LIST

Herald of Tzeentch - level 1 (METAL)
10 Horrors - standard, musician
10 Horrors - musician
3 Flamers
--------
500

GAME ONE: HIGH ELVES

Mage - level 1 (HIGH), ring of fury, barded steed
5 Silver Helms - standard, musician
5 Swordmasters
5 Swordmasters
Bolt Thrower
Eagle



Mage rides in with the helms, whilst the herald gribbles up with the horrors without standard.

MAGIC
Mage: Drain Magic
Ring: Soul Quench

Herald: Searing Doom
Horrors 1: Blue Fire
Horrors 2: Firestorm

Mistake #1) Double up on blue at low levels, smaller unit size means D6 hits can still matter, plus T3 elves makes SD6 not so sad

FIGHT
Turn 1

Tizz takes the initiative and shuffles up into magical blasting range ... and shortly thereafter the First Reign of Chaos Roll comes up 2-1 The Tizz Herald sweats through the Instability test, searing doom doesn't make it past the elven mage, and the turn is passed to the pointy ears.


The elves punch it forward, and the magic rebuttal sees the ring shatter as it irresistibles soul quench into the right horrors (for a single dead gribble), after the mage was allowed to put up drain magic (netting his unit a 6+ ward (should have been 5+ with the ring too I'm guessing)). The bolter lets rip on the same horror block, dropping another two daemons.

Turn 2

Both horror blocks back up 2", while the flamers rush to engage the eagle swooping down the flank. Magic blows average and achieves nothing of note, however the flamers dump nine shots into the eagle, score two wounds, and the warpflame kicks in and finishes the budgie off! Unexpectedly worthwhile special rule!


The silver helms fail a longish charge into the left horrors, as the swordmasters sprint to engage their foes. Drain magic is denied, though the bolt thrower skewers several (3) more horrors from the right block, leaving only a handful (4).

Turn 3

The Tzeentchian herald commands his horrors to reverse once more, sending the flamers to deal with the left swordmasters and the depleted horrors to divert the right choppy elves. The winds blow strong, gifting the daemons a 4+ ward save, as well as providing the herald with enough juice to boost searing doom onto the silver helms. It goes through and liquifies the unit, leaving an unscathed but decidedly unnerved mage, who manages to keep his cool despite. Then the flamers open up on the left swordies, cooking two and finishing off two more thanks to warpflame.


The last of the swordmasters hurls himself into the herald's horrors in a final act of vengeance, and his fellow warrior elite on the right oblige the horrors standing in their way. Also, the mage gets the fakk out of there, eschewing any casting in his flight to the backfield.


While the right swordmasters are able to drop two horrors for one of their own (lost to an exploding blue horror, nonetheless), the solo swordy finds little traction amongst the shimmering daemons, panics and breaks from combat. Apparently thrilled at winning a combat, the horrors lurch forward 12" into the center of the board.

Turn 4

Further forward than anticipated, the herald leads his charges deeper into enemy territory, and the flamers take up position within the building. Magic brings the attention of Tzeentch himself, however no fire rains from the sky, although the herald does manage to send a stream of molten metal in the mage's direction, burning him alive (thanks for the barding mate ). The flamers open up with a long shot on the bolter (6+ to hit, 6+ to wound), manage to drop one of the crew with a hearty roll of ten shots, and then warpflame kicks in (on a 6!) and finishes the machine off. Whoa. Speaking of finishing things off, the swordmasters drop their horrors and reform ...


... and pounce on the enemy rear. Horrors die, an elf dies, steadfast stability is stable, and the horrors reform to face.

Turn 5

With the game pretty much in the bag, Tizz just needs to work through three pesky elves to walk away with a thrilling victory to open the league. Naturally the Reign of Chaos dumps out a 1-1 result: the flamers pass no problem, yet the herald and his unit roll up 6-6 and poof

As I take a moment to pick my jaw up, the flamers erase the swordmasters, for what turns out to be a 120 point victory - also known as a DRAW

So that happened Maybe I'll save my unit thoughts for the end of a points bracket? As my list is locked down for the next few games, and I have sooooo much to learn about the army and what it can do. For now, here's a hearty for flamers, at least at smaller points. It's scary to think of how potent they were pre-nerfing, but even here and at min size they managed to be real players. Also have to reiterate how unexpected it was to have warpflame do anything useful!

Next Up: interlude vs dark elves

- Salvage

I challenged one of the DE players to see what nastiness they've got going now. As it turned out, quite a lot

GAME X: DARK ELVES

Sorceress - level 1 (DARK)
10 Dark Shards - musician
12 Executioners
5 Doomfire Warlocks



Sorceress runs free behind the executioners, and the tizz herald teams up with the standard horrors.

MAGIC
Sorceress: Doombolt
Warlocks: Doombolt, Soulblight

Herald: Searing Doom
Horrors 1: Blue Fire
Horrors 2: Glean Magic

Yes, once again I didn't double up on blue fire, but glean looked like a functional way to nerf the warlocks a smidge, and ultimately doombolt is drunkenly better than blue fire

FIGHT
Turn 1

Despite not getting +1, Tizz wins the dice roll (on the fourth go round) and moves up into range. The Reign brings a surging 10 winds roll (+1 ward), though the warlocks show what a 4+ ward can do and shrug off a S6 blue fire and the single 6+ searing doom that landed, taking no wounds. They are likewise unimpressed by the flamers meager heat.


The evil elves likewise advance, with the exception of the aiming dark shards. The warlocks' first doombolt comes up IF, tears through the horrors (though credit to them for some legit ward saves), and the miscast does exactly nothing, the three feedback wounds easily warded. The dark shards flub.

Turn 2

The Tzeentchian daemons slink around in the face of true monstrosity, hoping for a more potent magical onslaught this round. Another 10 serves up enhanced wards and lots of power dice ... but the warlocks remain unscathed (searing doom couldn't wound, blue fire rolled S1, glean was shut down). To add injury to insult, the herald miscast his searing doom, sending S6 hits through himself and the horrors, resulting in a wound for him and a dead gribble.


In response the warlocks pounce on the wounded horrors, with the executioners failing to make it in alongside them. Magic and shooting are inconsequential, and when it comes to combat the horrors pop wards like bosses and hold with only two dead - and a blue horror poke pulls the first warlock from his saddle!!

Turn 3

The flamers take the building, the full size horrors continue to back up, and the herald bails out to escape the incoming executioners. An average winds roll sees the Eye closed and two executioners dead to searing doom, and then the flamers unleash on the sorceress. The dice are not particularly with them and she is left on one wound ... plus 6+ regen thanks to warpflame In combat the horrors are wiped out.


The sorceress gets the crap away from the flamers' house, as the executioners fail a longish charge on the horrors and the warlocks take aim at the tizz herald. An IF doombolt tears him to pieces, the miscast once again meaningless in the face of 4+ ward power (we did indeed roll those extra hits for rolling doubles on his doombolts, but they never amounted to anything). Dark shards fail to hurt the horrors.

Turn 4

Operation: Kill the Fakking Warlocks goes into desperation mode! The horrors IF blue fire onto them, cooking none but losing 4+ of their own from the magical backlash. Tzeentch Himself visits the field, unfortunately the flame template headed for the hideously disfigured sorceress drifts off And the flamers unleash on the eeevil warlocks, managing to flambe three of the four, but the last muscles through the warpflame damage (4+ ward ftw!)


The executioners finally dock with the horror fragment and delete them. Likewise the remaining warlock looks at the flamers and uses a doombolt to paint the inside of the building with their glowing entrails.

So that's a LOSS to the Doomfire Warlocks then

- Salvage

First report was totally awesome, and surprisingly back-and-forth for such a low point level! Will read the second tomorrow

Do you game at an independent FLGS? I wish mine would run an escalation league; really helps with the painting motivation, and learning a new army.

Yep, my club (The Shambling Horde) throws down fairly regularly at our FLGS (Grimfoe Games), and we've had a few larger events in the last years as well, gathering folks from out of the area. Totally hear you on the painting front, there's no way I could get 60 horrors painted for this army, but 10 a month is far more doable

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:
So that's a LOSS to the Doomfire Warlocks then

Wow, they really did carry it! Are they scarier at low points like this, or is this a unit we'll be seeing in every DE list from now on?

Awesome report, and an innovative list.

I'd guess the Warlocks will be even more popular in smaller games; their set spell selection, durability, and maneuverability make them really efficient.

But they do seem awesome all around, too.

Cheers Warp, will be sure to keep them coming when I have more to report

On the warlocks, it seems like a rare DE list indeed that doesn't include at least one unit, and I've seen plenty of them around the Internet already, usually with two smaller units or even one deathstar style unit. The things are really pretty ridiculous given just how much they've got going for them: level 2 wizards to the last model, two fantastic spells automatically, essentially 0 miscast punishment (particularly as no dice are ever lost from the pool), 4+ wards, swiftstride M9 (right?), not stompable, ASF, S4, reroll to wounds of 1 ... and probably more? For 25 points a pop!

They're game-changing enough as a caster unit (ironically I think horrors are the other example of this in Warhammer), but then they kept piling more and more on to the point that I can't help but shake my head. But yes, as nasty as these are in big games, they're pretty horrifically efficient at low points. The DE player here is already musing about how comped they'll be at tournies, and we half tossed around increasing their points to 26 each so our 500 point games would be a little more interesting vs him

- Salvage

Well they also have poison attacks...

I only played a few games whfb until now and while Iagree they are the best unit I seen so far from the book... they are not unbeatable.

They have no armor save t3 ok a 4+ ward but in your game it sounds like they did 20 saves in a row ... what are the chances? I saw them go down way faster than in your game.

Also misscast while the punishment is not too high it is also unlikely they save all the wounds from 2 feedbacks like here.

But I never played a 500points game and can see how they are crazy in those games. Since they are basically a second herochoice since most armies dont have the shooting/magic to kill them off fast

MagicGis wrote:
Well they also have poison attacks...

What I tell you

I also forgot to list that they can Vanguard

Your point is taken, five wounds with a 6/4+ to keep them alive is not necessarily too impossible to punch through, though the fact that you must kill every single warlock to drop their magic effectiveness means that you really do have to devote serious attention to erase them. I still say their miscast rules push them well towards broken,* not simply because it has a negligible effect on the warlocks (D3 auto-wounds with a 4+ ward yields an average of 1 dead model), but because it costs no further dice from the power pool, unlike many of the other standard results.

* I strongly hesitate to call anything 'broken' any more (I credit spending a year playing WM/H), though I do still hold GeeDub accountable for bad moments in book design. I feel like the warlocks are an instance of this, as they are so obviously overpowered / undercosted you would think somebody would have caught it. The only other stand out for me in the new DE is that they have access to nine lores of magic. Why so lazy, Dubs? Our short comings and limitations are the things that give us character and allow us to flourish in the face of adversity ... unless you're a dark elf, who gets whatever they want? Yes, I'm bitter because I would trade the Lore of Tzeentch for Beasts any day of the week ... but Tizz & Metal is what I've got, so I'll make it work. With DE you can just knee jerk to Shadow, Death, Life (in that order) and take the Obvious Choice. Maybe the saving grace is that the Lore of Dark is so bamf that there really is a choice to make? Or you just let your two units of warlocks handle the doombolting and leave the Purple Suns / Mindrazors to the level 4

Enough ranting in a batrep thread though

- Salvage

Totally agree, Salvage.

T3 with a 6+/4+ isn't super-durable. But with 5+W, it's tons more durable than any other Wizard, point-for-point.
They've got a bigger foot print, I guess, but with M9, Fast Cavalry and Vanguard, you're not going to be touching that unit with anything but shooting, magic, and other units like the Warlocks themselves: small and fast.
Aaand then the Warlocks have the ultimate anti-fast cav/chaff spell (and I used to catch flak for Warp Lightning being too good), and they're also ASF S4 with Poison? Can't throw Eagles at them. Or Warhounds, or Marauder Horsemen. Reavers will do some damage in combat, but they'll still loose the fight. If they don't get Doombolt'd beforehand.

 Boss Salvage wrote:

MagicGis wrote:
Well they also have poison attacks...

What I tell you

I also forgot to list that they can Vanguard

Your point is taken, five wounds with a 6/4+ to keep them alive is not necessarily too impossible to punch through, though the fact that you must kill every single warlock to drop their magic effectiveness means that you really do have to devote serious attention to erase them. I still say their miscast rules push them well towards broken,* not simply because it has a negligible effect on the warlocks (D3 auto-wounds with a 4+ ward yields an average of 1 dead model), but because it costs no further dice from the power pool, unlike many of the other standard results.

* I strongly hesitate to call anything 'broken' any more (I credit spending a year playing WM/H), though I do still hold GeeDub accountable for bad moments in book design. I feel like the warlocks are an instance of this, as they are so obviously overpowered / undercosted you would think somebody would have caught it. The only other stand out for me in the new DE is that they have access to nine lores of magic. Why so lazy, Dubs? Our short comings and limitations are the things that give us character and allow us to flourish in the face of adversity ... unless you're a dark elf, who gets whatever they want? Yes, I'm bitter because I would trade the Lore of Tzeentch for Beasts any day of the week ... but Tizz & Metal is what I've got, so I'll make it work. With DE you can just knee jerk to Shadow, Death, Life (in that order) and take the Obvious Choice. Maybe the saving grace is that the Lore of Dark is so bamf that there really is a choice to make? Or you just let your two units of warlocks handle the doombolting and leave the Purple Suns / Mindrazors to the level 4

Enough ranting in a batrep thread though

- Salvage

Don't confuse Dark Elves getting all 8 lores as silly with the simple fact that our own book is the worst pile of steaming fecal matter of all the updated books...
Warlocks may be hilariously stupid, but the real fact is, they just show us how god-awful Horrors really are. Meanwhile, while your Flamers are okay at low pts, you'll soon find out just how garbage they truly are once the points totals increase.

Warlocks are simply the DE's version of our own Beasts of Nurgle.
The rest of their book however is pretty solid overall. Ours though, eh, not so much.

Experiment 626 wrote:
Don't confuse Dark Elves getting all 8 lores as silly with the simple fact that our own book is the worst pile of steaming fecal matter of all the updated books...

Thinking about it more, I'm not that upset about the nine lores thing. They already had the truly nasty lores in the last book (Shadow, Death) anyway. What's really happening is that I'm jealous of Beasts magic (because I keep ending up with S3 T3 armies that desperately need buffs they can't have), and I hate Life magic and the static, deathstar-style builds it so often leads too

Meanwhile, while your Flamers are okay at low pts, you'll soon find out just how garbage they truly are once the points totals increase.

In all honesty I thought flamers were total garbage after they received the mother of all nerfs with the new book, no matter how busted they were in the last one. The only reason I'm running them at all is because somebody - pretty sure it was you RiTides - implied that there was something wrong with playing Daemons of Tzeentch yet leaving out a unit as well-established as flamers. That and variety. Also the fact that their min unit size is 120 points, which happens to be the same as min screamers, which tend to fill many of the same chaff / anti-chaff roles for me. What's truly bizarre to me is that the flamer trio seems to be working! I'm sure they will do less heavy lifting (!) in larger games, but I do think they'll continue to be relevant. I've toyed with playing with much larger units of them ... but I don't see that working out

Enough flamer talk:

GAME TWO: OGRES

Firebelly
5 Ironguts - standard (of discipline), bellower
3 Ogres - bellower
Sabretusk



Firebelly in the guts, herald in the horrors without a standard.

MAGIC

Firebelly: Fireball

Herald: Searing Doom
Horrors 1: Blue Fire
Horrors 2: Blue Fire

I'm learning

BATTLE
Turn 1

Ogres win the roll and floor it forward. Magic is 3-2 but the firebelly fails to cast the biggest fireball at the horrors in front of him.


Horrors shuffle back and slide sideways, as flamers find range on the kitten. Magic is 6-2 (+1 Tizz channel), Khorne deigns to visit the field, and blue fire erupts all over the small ogre unit. 4 S6 followed by a second 4 S6 leaves a single ogre on two wounds, who succumbs to the warpflame and dies! The herald is so stunned that his searing doom causes a single wound to the mini-gutstar. Then the flamers nuke the sabretusk.

Turn 2

Alone on the field but filled with purpose, the guts try a long charge into some horrors, but fall short and trot forward. Magic is 4-3 (+1 Tizz channel), and the firebelly's fireball is dispelled with maximum derision.


Shuffle, slide and find range boys! Magic is 2-1 ... and the herald rolls boxcars for his Instability Horrors got this though: a 6 S6 blue fire makes it through and scours four wounds from the guts, while also giving them a 6+ regen! The flamers lay into them next, managing one wound to the guts and one to the firebelly, both of whom pass their warpflame tests and gain 5+ regen

Turn 3

The rapidly diminishing / mutating gutstar makes it into the horrors with standard and, with the help of the firebelly's breath weapon, vaporize 9 of 10 daemons. This sends a wave of 18 blue horrors gibbering past the ogres, which somehow manages to pull down a wounded irongut and wound the firebelly again! Then the standard winks out of existence.


Horrors turn to face the inevitable as flamers find their range. Magic is 5-3, once again Khorne could care less, and blue fire finally flubs, with a weaksauce 4 S1. The flamers unload and manage a wound + another thanks to warpflame.

Turn 4

The depleted gutstar (i.e. firebelly + standard + bellower) rams into the second horror block, and the pain is once more brought. 7 of 10 daemons are mulched and the flood of blue horrors somehow rips a wound from the bellower before the rest of the unit pops.

*From here I made a mistake in the diagrams: the bellower did not die to blue horrors here, so the unit was still firebelly + standard + (wounded) bellower. This matters later!


Alone on the field but filled with purpose, the flamers bound to the flank of the gutstar, ready for vengeance. BUT FIRST! Magic is 6-6, summoning a fresh unit of 10 horrors, who default to blue fire and slam it out with IF! 6 S1 amounts to nothing, however the laughs continue when the miscast nukes six of the newly spawned daemons And then the flamers can't make it past the ogres' 5+ regen saves ...

Turn 5

The firebelly and friends turn to face the flamers, knowing full well they won't be catching them ...


Rotisserie ogre anyone? Magic is 4-1, Tizz tosses down no flames, and the horrors' 3 S3 falls short. The flamers unload and kill the bellower, panicking the firebelly and standard bearer away ... and giving them 4+ regen in the process!

Turn 6

The firebelly + standard rally. And if he rolled for magic at all then he had his fireball slapped out of his ham fist, dammit.


Just to clarify, all the ogres have is a firebelly on two wounds standing next to an irongut standard bearer. Magic is 5-2, managing 4 S2 blue fire, which stunningly wounds the firebelly once ... and boosts him to 3+ regen Then the flamers rev up for glory - half their hits are allocated to the firebelly, and the single wound that sticks makes it past that ridiculous regen save. BAM!

Now I wish this actually ended up tabling him, but despite what the picture suggests, that last irongut was standing strong. I did get half points for bringing his unit so low, but even then the end result was about 20 points in his favor, or another DRAW. Good dark lord that was some crazy gak though!

- Salvage

Hilarious stuff, Salvage.

Can you clarify how Warpflame works for me? I've glanced at it once, but after that...well, I only ever see Nurgle Tally lists and Cacaobombs...

Yea, this is like Yahtzeehammer with the dial cranked to 11 - which is a lot of fun if you can keep the right mindset, and so far is working for me. Come tournament time and all I can manage are draws because of shenanigans ... then we'll see who's laughing

Here's the text for Warpflame (off the spell card but pretty sure the wording is the same for shooting damage):

At the end of each phase, any unit that suffered one or more unsaved Wounds from an attak with this special rule during that phase must take a Toughness test. If the test is failed, the unit immediately suffers D3 Wounds with no armor saves allowed. If the test is passed, all models in the unit gain the Regeneration (6+) special rule for the rest of the game. Any models in the unit that already have the Regeneration special rule instead gain +1 to all Regeneration saving throws for the rest of the game. Chaos is fickle!

We actually weren't sure what to do when the ironguts and the firebelly each took a wound after allocation. We ended up rolling separate tests for both (both passed, so the overall regen boost was the same) ... but I'm not convinced that was the right thing to do. Even if a character in a unit can be tagged by enemy fire (because too few RNF), I don't think that makes them a separate unit from the unit they're within. So in our case two disparate entities were damaged by warpflame, but I suppose still only one unit was affected as far as the end of phase test goes?

Speaking of rules mistakes, I also missed that blue horror hits are not automatic, but in fact hit on a 4+. Flipside, I have also never remembered to roll the 4+ to summon new horrors for every wound caused by Tizz spells. It helps that this was the first game were my horrors' magic wounded things

- Salvage

Interesting. Warpflame definitely seems like it's got more going against it than for it. Do you think the spells/shooting are (or, at least, were attempted to be) inherently better, and Warpflame dials them back a bit?

Also, don't all of the Tzeentch units have Flaming attacks?

Warpsolution wrote:
Interesting. Warpflame definitely seems like it's got more going against it than for it. Do you think the spells/shooting are (or, at least, were attempted to be) inherently better, and Warpflame dials them back a bit?

Warpflame is utterly moronic in Fantasy because units generally are so large, and outside of a couple exceptions, neither the Lore of Tzeentch or Flamers shooting can kill enough to make it viable vs. things outside of chaff removal.
Really, outside of Infernal Gateway and Tzeentch's Firestorm, Horrors overall really struggle to do significant damage due to the combination of random hits/strength attacks coupled with Warpflame. Meanwhile, spells like Glean Magic are 100% useless on these guys since they're always stuck at Lv1, making it highly unlikely you'll ever steal a random spell.

At lowers pts values it tends to swing much more towards the "really good" end of the spectrum though simply because you're not facing nearly the same numbers in enemy units.
For example, vs. just 3 or 4 ogres Warpflame isn't so bad, while against just 5 knights it can be absolutely killer. You'd never consider it though against the more typical unit sizes of 8+ ogres or 9-10+ knights however! (okay, if you have Gateway those Knights are almost certainly paste anyways!)

And again with Flamers, you're paying through the nose for a unit that can't decide what it wants to do. D6/18" range S4 shots that also suffer from the multiple shots penalty, (and likely moving & shooting), while not gaining the benefit of Quick to Fire in 'normal' sized games struggles to reliably remove even a basic unit of 5 Fast Cavalry models. Then you're further hamstrung by the max unit size of only 6 and WS2 in combat, on top of Daemonic Instability...
And all for the same cost as a Space Marine Terminator!!!

As a fellow mono-Tzeentch player, I really want to field Flamers, but sinking the pts into them always turns into a wasted opportunity in anything above 1k pts. (ie; Screamers could have done the same or likely, better)

Warpsolution wrote:
Also, don't all of the Tzeentch units have Flaming attacks?

Nope, Tzeentch lost all their Flaming Attacks in the new book. (though there is a RAW argument to try and give it to the Burning Chariot, but it's really splitting hairs!)

You can take the Banner of E. Flame on a BSB to give 1 unit Flaming Attacks, but Tzheralds overall are the outright worst BSB option in the book due to being only T3/W2 with a 5++/re-roll 1's. (and no access to Gifts if you take a magic standard)



Overall, Tzeentch does much better at really low points totals because the enemy can't take advantage of our glaring weaknesses, while the random nature of most Tzeentch damage abilities pays off much bigger and looses less.

At around the 1500pts mark and up though, things start getting seriously depressing!

Yes, somewhat stupidly none of the Tizz stuff is flaming - except for the flame cannon on the burning chariot. This isn't the place to argue over the RAW of it, but I intend to play it as flaming unless directed otherwise by a TO. It helps the argument that this hardly makes the DoT broken

Flamers pretty clearly got the GeeDub pendulum swing, in combat and ranged alike (though why they were pimps in melee was always beyond me). I feel like the crippling number of range modifiers they suffer may be a taste of things to come with 9E. Same with the various grape shot weapons and the SG's warp gaze - something may be happening with BS shooting, there's currently a painful amount of negatives on a lot of new book units (lizards have several).

Warpsolution wrote:
Warpflame definitely seems like it's got more going against it than for it. Do you think the spells/shooting are (or, at least, were attempted to be) inherently better, and Warpflame dials them back a bit?

Honestly I think Warpflame is supposed to be a boon, but it certainly felt like a bad joke when I first read it. What's crazy is that it seems to be working?! At least a little bit, vs small units, that are T3-4. In larger games I really don't look forward to trying to use Tizz magic to hurt really nasty things - deathstars that just get bloaty with regen, big gribblies with high toughness and already equipped with 4+ regen. Spoiler: I don't plan on relying on Tizz magic in larger games

But isn't that sad? That a DoT army doesn't want to use its own lore? It really is one of the most disappointing aspects of the DoC book. Basically, it's a blaster lore that isn't particularly good at blasting? A simple fix would have been to make blue fire SD6+1, make at least a few spells flaming, and give us some kind of augment. A beautiful one would have been +D3S / +D3T, or S = Artillery Die, with a Misfire doing something unfortunate ... though perhaps that would be too Skaven-y for GW? I've played Skaven for years, and while DoT at first seemed to be a lot like them with the random factor, I'm finding that Tzeentch Daemons are just flat out random. With Skaven your wonder weapons either nuke the enemy or you; with Tizz your stuff has the potential to do something, but most likely will trend to mediocrity. And then the Reign of Chaos swallows your general.

- Salvage

Warpflame feels like it was designed for 40k, and it works fine in 40k, but then they ham-fistedly shoved it into Fantasy and it doesn't work at all.

The Lore of Tzeentch is.. yeah I don't know.

Usually random is perceived as a negative, a penalty you pay for potentially being really good. Games Workshop seems to view it as a positive here? The average strength of your spells is 3.5 (Lore of Fire is 4), and instead of flaming you have a rule that against large units (the norm) has far more drawbacks than benefits. The Lore of Fire is already considered not great, so being a worse version of it is not good.

I think Warpflame should do at least D3 wounds per rank of the unit. Reward is not matching risk at all.

 Nitros14 wrote:
Warpflame feels like it was designed for 40k, and it works fine in 40k, but then they ham-fistedly shoved it into Fantasy and it doesn't work at all.

The Lore of Tzeentch is.. yeah I don't know.

Usually random is perceived as a negative, a penalty you pay for potentially being really good. Games Workshop seems to view it as a positive here? The average strength of your spells is 3.5 (Lore of Fire is 4), and instead of flaming you have a rule that against large units (the norm) has far more drawbacks than benefits. The Lore of Fire is already considered not great, so being a worse version of it is not good.

I think Warpflame should do at least D3 wounds per rank of the unit. Reward is not matching risk at all.

Warpflame would be fine if we were given Lore of Fire which synergises great with Tzeentch magic & our weaker combat units especially, in place of the rather pointless Lore of Metal which only gives us Final Trans and one or two utility spells...

Vs. most large units, the risk is usually a 50/50 shot at either doing more damage or else handing out regen, since most large units outside of Lizzies & O&G's will be T3. The idea of D3 wounds per rank would have been super, but alas, this is 8th ed Daemons - the borked book which simply reads like the "I didn't give a gak when I wrote this" army book.

Experiment626, I get the strange feeling you are not happy about the new daemons book...

Salvage your battles have kind of showed me that starting a daemons army might be fun, but will ultimately be frustrating. So... Many... Draws...

I would go crazy with an Army being more random than OnG or Skaven!

Any preview at how your list will evolve at higher points?

Experiment 626 wrote:Vs. most large units, the risk is usually a 50/50 shot at either doing more damage or else handing out regen, since most large units outside of Lizzies & O&G's will be T3. The idea of D3 wounds per rank would have been super, but alas, this is 8th ed Daemons - the borked book which simply reads like the "I didn't give a gak when I wrote this" army book.

So the first time I ran this army in any form was actually a 2500 point single day event at my LGS, with a lord-less list filled with level 2 wizards. I ended up in dead last place after three games (I actually won the first one thanks to Slaanesh reaching down and insta-gibbing a stegadon for me), earning a $25 gift certificate and a whole lot of things to think about ... Anyway, in a game vs Empire I actually got a horde of halberds up to 3+ regen, as he was making his warpflame tests like a boss, and I kept piling them on as I didn't really see Lore of Tizz doing much against 1+ armor saves (I did have two heralds on Metal but they were dead at this point ).

On the borking, yes I do think GeeDub went too far. DoC was the book that needed to be nerfed, and they certainly did it. Case in point, I would never have played DoC in the last book, and one of my favorite warhammer jokes is the one about two daemon players setting their armies up and letting their dogs play for them as they get a few beers, because it was pretty obviously Easyhammer. Yes there are still nasty things in the book now, and yes we are seeing a LOT of daemons at tournaments, but we're also seeing essentially one build over and over, with the occasional Mono Nurgle (+ Skillcannons), the odd Mono Khorne, the rare Mono Slaanesh, and the nigh unheard of Mono Tzeentch. This is the mark of a bad book, generating a single competitive build - Ogre Kingdoms is in a similar place, though not as extreme as Daemons.

I have my own personal list of complaints, but it's actually fairly short: no 25 point banner gift chart , lords of change have no real bonus in the magic department to make them stand out over other Level 4's, flamers got nerfed too hard (fewer negatives to hit would be appreciated for one!), Lore of Tzeentch is lacking (no augment + no flaming at all), annnnnd magical t-stomps. That last one because we'd have half a hope against BotWD if big things could at least stomp the ground in a non-magical way

Pervertdhermit wrote:Any preview at how your list will evolve at higher points?

I have all the steps ready to go ... but in true Tzeentchian fashion I'mma keep them to myself for now

- Salvage

This was a good read. I have been running mostly Tz DoC as my soon to be 2014 tourney army, still in practice and painting. the mid range points sucks, however the burning chariot is a beast even in combat vs t3. I really like the LoC with 3 units of screamers, screening and growning, and droping metal from the hearlds.

 Boss Salvage wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:Vs. most large units, the risk is usually a 50/50 shot at either doing more damage or else handing out regen, since most large units outside of Lizzies & O&G's will be T3. The idea of D3 wounds per rank would have been super, but alas, this is 8th ed Daemons - the borked book which simply reads like the "I didn't give a gak when I wrote this" army book.

So the first time I ran this army in any form was actually a 2500 point single day event at my LGS, with a lord-less list filled with level 2 wizards. I ended up in dead last place after three games (I actually won the first one thanks to Slaanesh reaching down and insta-gibbing a stegadon for me), earning a $25 gift certificate and a whole lot of things to think about ... Anyway, in a game vs Empire I actually got a horde of halberds up to 3+ regen, as he was making his warpflame tests like a boss, and I kept piling them on as I didn't really see Lore of Tizz doing much against 1+ armor saves (I did have two heralds on Metal but they were dead at this point ).

This is why Horrors only ever want Gateway (the best), Firestorm and in a pinch, Pink Fire. The rest of the lore may as well not even exist when it comes to them.
Firestorm can at least murder large chunks of most T3/4 Infantry units, especially those on the 20mm bases. The odd S2 template will suck Wardballs, but you tend to average S4/5 hits thanks to the Tzherald's +1S Locus. Any strength roll of 4+ will pretty much auto-negate an infantry unit's save, since most Infantry outside of WoC and Dwarfs tend to cap at 4+.
Gateway is the go-to spell for dealing with 1+/2+ saves as you again will tend to average 7/S8 hits thanks to the +S Locus. (which is the only Tzeentch locus worth taking in Fantasy...) -5 average to armour saves makes a mockery of cavalry and can be used to deal with most Monstrous Cav as well, unless they're Deathstaring them.

I typically take 2x Lv2 Tzheralds w/+1S Locus and always put at least one of them on Lore of Tzeentch. (or both if I'm only running 2x 18 Horrors instead of the more optimised 3-4x 10 strong versions)
Horrors just sit back and 6 dice their spells all day and don't care about miscasting. Hell, we don't even lose dice with them, and the Lore Attribute usually brings back what was killed and most of the time, more than what died to the miscast damage.

 Boss Salvage wrote:
On the borking, yes I do think GeeDub went too far. DoC was the book that needed to be nerfed, and they certainly did it. Case in point, I would never have played DoC in the last book, and one of my favorite warhammer jokes is the one about two daemon players setting their armies up and letting their dogs play for them as they get a few beers, because it was pretty obviously Easyhammer. Yes there are still nasty things in the book now, and yes we are seeing a LOT of daemons at tournaments, but we're also seeing essentially one build over and over, with the occasional Mono Nurgle (+ Skillcannons), the odd Mono Khorne, the rare Mono Slaanesh, and the nigh unheard of Mono Tzeentch. This is the mark of a bad book, generating a single competitive build - Ogre Kingdoms is in a similar place, though not as extreme as Daemons.

I swear the Fantasy community in general will never get over their obsessive butt-hurt from those 3-4 months where yes, our old book was over 9000% broken to s***!

Honestly, this current turd-fest we're stuck with reads like it was pretty much just;
1. designed to 'people please' all the Daemon-haters. (and honestly, for most of them, we can never be nerfed enough to satisfy them)
2. Ward didn't care at all for the project and didn't want to be bothered putting any actual effort into it... compare our book to his Dark Elves and especially the slightly OTT High Elves. There's no other way to explain why we got so unfairly shafted when he was clearly capable of producing much better.

 Boss Salvage wrote:
I have my own personal list of complaints, but it's actually fairly short: no 25 point banner gift chart , lords of change have no real bonus in the magic department to make them stand out over other Level 4's, flamers got nerfed too hard (fewer negatives to hit would be appreciated for one!), Lore of Tzeentch is lacking (no augment + no flaming at all), annnnnd magical t-stomps. That last one because we'd have half a hope against BotWD if big things could at least stomp the ground in a non-magical way

Pervertdhermit wrote:Any preview at how your list will evolve at higher points?

I have all the steps ready to go ... but in true Tzeentchian fashion I'mma keep them to myself for now

- Salvage

Lol! I have a lot more I guess, but I'll just add in our nonsensical Inspiring Prensence/BSB rules, the horrific Gift tables and the worst offender - Reign of Comedy table...
Lords of Change are crap because their spell selections are pretty 'meh', and they compete for dice alongside Tzheralds/Horrors. This on top of being cannonball bait & our lackluster Gifts tables... I've stopped using mine in anything under 2.8k. When I do use him I've started to lean more towards taking the Eternal Blade plus a roll on the Lesser Gifts table, as it turns him into a combat monster, something Tzeentch normally lacks. I'm to the point I don't even bother upgrading to a Lv4 anymore. The Tzheralds do fine with using-up the 'wasteful' spells the Horrors don't want, and Metal doesn't even begin to synergise well enough with the army to really warrant the investment.

I think honestly Lore of Tzeentch would be fine if we had Lore of Fire instead of Metal... Fire-Cloak & Flaming Sword would be solid buffs for both Horrors & Screamers, while Flame Cage is a neat little Hex spell which either forces a unit to for-fit its movement, or else can pump out some very scary damage to non-1+/2+ or Monstrous type units. Plus Lore of Fire has pretty low casting values overall, unlike Metal which ends up over-competing with those Tzeentch spells for power dice.
I honestly don't mind the magical t-stomps as it really does fit with who we are. Rather, it's the UltraWard DragonCrutch Banner that is to blame.


Dare I bet you a box of Tzeentch's Magical Ever-Shifting-Rainbow Cookies that you'll be adding in a pair of Burny Chariots plus a Soul Grinder at some point?! and maybe a bunch of MSU Screamers & 3x 5-strong Furies...

Dare I bet you a box of Tzeentch's Magical Ever-Shifting-Rainbow Cookies that you'll be adding in a pair of Burny Chariots plus a Soul Grinder at some point?! and maybe a bunch of MSU Screamers & 3x 5-strong Furies...

PISH. The first things I painted for this army were 9 screamers + 2 burning chariots, and one of the main reasons I'm playing it is to run my soul grinder(s)

- Salvage

This is the mark of a bad book, generating a single competitive build - Ogre Kingdoms is in a similar place, though not as extreme as Daemons.

Ogre kingdoms has only a single competitive build? I've seen many different kinds, what's the issue here?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Ogre kingdoms has only a single competitive build? I've seen many different kinds, what's the issue here?

I was referring to the 'Brogres' net list, a build so ubiquitous that it has to be specifically comped out at any tournament worth attending. We all know the list before we get to the table:

Slaughtermaster - level 4, heavy ward, maybe crown of command
Bruiser BSB - maybe rune maw, maybe crown of command
Butcher or Firebelly - hellheart
^ all in as many Ironguts allowed by comp (with standard of discipline)
Small unit(s) of Ogres if required to make core points due to capped guts
4 Mournfangs - dragonhide banner, ironfists
3x 1 Sabretusk
Perhaps Guneaters (pennant or flaming, snipers or poison or scout)
Perhaps Leadbelchers
2x Ironblasters

Not a lot of variety between lists happening with this skeleton, and that is bad. It's a lot like the last WoC book, where you knew what you'd be facing before hitting the table (level 4 shadow, khorne halberd warriors, tizz turtle warriors, horde of khorne lumberjack marauders, double hellcannons, etc, etc)

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:
The only reason I'm running them at all is because somebody - pretty sure it was you RiTides - implied that there was something wrong with playing Daemons of Tzeentch yet leaving out a unit as well-established as flamers. That and variety.

That was me, sorry if I guilted you into it . But I have to say, they were worth their weight in gold in the Ogre bat rep above! Just finished reading it, and I can see that you love some skirmishing shooting dudes to get all tactical maneuver-y with

A little OT, but have Mournfangs fallen out of favor for Ogres, given the standard skeleton list you laid out above? Those were the business in 2012...

Dragonhide mournfangs are auto-includes that I keep forgetting about Have added them into The List

Back on topic: hoping to get 1+ games in next weekend, then we've a 500 point event Dec 7! Stay tuned for moar madness!

- Salvage

Sounds excellent- good luck!

 Boss Salvage wrote:
Dragonhide mournfangs are auto-includes that I keep forgetting about Have added them into The List

Back on topic: hoping to get 1+ games in next weekend, then we've a 500 point event Dec 7! Stay tuned for moar madness!

- Salvage

Good luck!

Hopefully that incoming winter storm won't hit you too badly.

Subscribed! Good to see some unexpected successes with the flamers. I'm guessing even as things scale up, target selection with warpflame will mitigate some of its less desirable side effects, but who knows. Looking forward to more as it comes.

RZ

Hey Salvage! Great reports as always.

Mind if I share a few thoughts?

1.) The DE book is ridiculous. There are a few books/lists you should never feel bad about losing to, and that book is one of them. (At any points level)

2.) I like seeing the Flamers in use. They lend towards a weird gun-liney sort of thing. They still have a few things going for them. Mostly, being S4/T4 2 wounds. A unit of them will still likely kill 5 warhounds or dire wolves. Most chaff hunters (Marauders horsies, Hounds, Wolves) all have low leadership and S3.

3.) The Tzeentch list and lore isn't built around magic dominance anymore more really. Warpflame isn't the worst lore attribute ever either. It reads worse than it plays. The main thing being a unit only tests once no matter how many times they get hit. Tzeentch is about picking a unit and obliterating it with a lot of magic missiles once it hits the 24 inch line.

4.) Consider taking Lore of Metal on the Herald? All of the Metal Spells are considered flaming, so if you hit a unit with Searing Doom, Golden Hounds, or Final Transmutation, they lose regen they might have gained.

5.) Your cannon thing is flaming in my opinion as well.

6.) I love the Blue Scribes!

I tend to be a big fan of the LOC with Wand, and if at 2400+ then rolling for exalted as well, I really like rerolling winds, free dispel dice and healing for casting.

I typically take 3 units of horrors, and the LOC taking Tzeentch. Both heralds take metal. I can 6 die final tranny with no worries of losing my combat beasie.

I do take 2 skull cannons as well, and a few units of screamers. I hide the Loc, notice most spells are DD so can still fire bolt while hidden. So I take out their cannons in short order and then it's on for the LOC to get in flanks and rear and droping pink fire across hordes and crap. A lot of lvl 1-2 death wizards around here, so snagging a sniper spell helps as well.

I'm still just geeking out that Red_Zeke made an appearance in this thread

M-M-M-MULTIQUOTE!

Experiment 626 wrote:Hopefully that incoming winter storm won't hit you too badly.

EX626! Honestly it doesn't seem too bad, and there's a shocking amount of warhammer queuing up for Saturday and Sunday! Helps that this is nearly the close of the first league tier, on top of the holiday

Red_Zeke wrote:Good to see some unexpected successes with the flamers. I'm guessing even as things scale up, target selection with warpflame will mitigate some of its less desirable side effects, but who knows.

RZ! Glad to have you along. Yes, I too am hopeful that the flamers will remain functional in larger games, and I do agree with you and Tfrog (#2) that it's much more about target selection than anything else. With an effective 30" range and a tiny footprint, three flamers should be able to reach out and touch other chaff wherever they crop up ... before I shove them under the enemy deathstar to serve as 'cheap' redirectors

Thunderfrog wrote:4.) Consider taking Lore of Metal on the Herald? All of the Metal Spells are considered flaming, so if you hit a unit with Searing Doom, Golden Hounds, or Final Transmutation, they lose regen they might have gained.

6.) I love the Blue Scribes!

Tfrog! Cheers for the insights, and the vote of support (#5). Pretty sure all of my heralds that aren't BSB's will be running METAL, and the dude in these tiny games is as well, though so far he's defaulted to Searing Doom, had relatively little impact and then been inhaled by the Reign of Chaos game after game When I run a LoC I'm most likely running METAL as well, simply because it has spells worth IF-ing, which seems like my only recourse (hint: trying to avoid running a level 4 lord, just too dear of a gift to my opponent). Aside: I really hope the issue of nigh mandatory level 4 casters is addressed in 9th Edition .........

Blue Scribes are pretty cool, and I do enjoy random mechanics That said I'm not 100% on special character use myself, but I may give them a shot some time.

Acardia wrote:I tend to be a big fan of the LOC with Wand, and if at 2400+ then rolling for exalted as well, I really like rerolling winds, free dispel dice and healing for casting.

Acardia! So I do have a LoC and all the comments about using the big bird has me interested in getting him painted and on the table, most likely post-league unless I get really crazy in the paint department! I figured for a while that I'd either run him as a Whimsy Lord with a bunch of levels, but I'm being convinced that Eternal Lord beatstick may be the way I go. Exalted + lesser gift + 2 levels of METAL to go out and high five things to death

- Salvage

With all the holidazing, I only managed to get in one game, and not in my bracket either, but I’ll take it …

GAME X: HIGH ELVES

Noble - reaver bow, enchanted shield, lion cloak, heavy armor
13 Archers - musician
10 Shadow Warriors
8 Sisters

The dude is headed towards a full on elven gunline at 2500 points, commanded by none other than Alith Anar! We’re scheduled to play for reals at 1000 points next month, so I suppose I’ll dodge the moonbow once more



Reaver noble fills out the archers, whilst the Tzeentchian herald ranks up with the standard horrors.

MAGIC
Herald: Transmutation of Lead
Horrors 1: Blue Fire
Horrors 2: Blue Fire

BATTLE
Turn 1

The sisters sally forth into range and, along with the rest of the elven archers, prepare to unleash hell. Arrows rip into the herald’s horrors, dropping three and getting the ichor flowing.


The flamers bound forth to return fire next turn, but the majority of the daemons are content to gibber and get on with the magicking. 6-5 winds sees the elf noble resist Tzeentch’s pull, and the Tizz herald miscast transmutation on the shadow warriors (6-6-6-5 on the dice)! The elves suffer -1BS while three horrors explode in the backlash (#7), and six dice are drained from the pool, leaving one to toss for an easily dispelled blue fire.

Turn 2

A second volley of elven steal slams into the herald’s horrors, nailing the abominations to the trees, along with their cackling general. The elf noble dramatically lowers his massive bow and nods grimly, before fist bumping the archer musician standing at his side.


Unaffected by the carnage, the remaining horrors gibber amongst themselves as the flamers leap into range of the sisters. A second 6-5 winds rips across the battlefield, and this time the pull of dark gods is too much - the elf noble staggers out of his unit and splits open, giving cruel rebirth to the Tzeentch herald! Coruscating fire engulfs the daemon as it hurls a firestorm at the archers (rolled up and kept Tzeentch‘s Firestorm), only to have the explosion deviate harmlessly. The horrors follow that up with 3 S1 into the sisters, cooking one of them and fatally mutating three more with warpflame! They panic and run into the flamers’ waiting arms … but the daemons manage nothing but a light toasting (5 shots ftl).

(Yes I messed this one up, only enemy wizards can be possessed on an 11 )

Turn 3

The archers reform to draw a bead on their possessed general, managing to tag him once. Meanwhile the shadow warriors shoot down two more horrors, and the sisters rally.


Giggling maniacally, the herald marches to the flank of the archers, while the horrors swift reform to more effectively engage the scouting elves. 6-3 winds (+1 Tizz channel) blow through, seeing 2 S2 blue fire on the shadow warriors that does nothing and a failed casting of firestorm (on 5-6 dice). The flamers lay into the sisters, fragging two and gifting the other two with 6+ regen, breaking them in the process.

Turn 4

Once again the archers reform to nab the herald, but this time fail their test to be able to fire. The sisters rally once more, and three more horrors are dropped by the shadow warriors.


The herald continues the gambit, scampering out of the archers’ line of sight. Another 6-3 winds roll puts 3 S3 blue fire (IF’d) into the shadow warriors, but this time three elves die and three more mutate hideously. Three horrors are summoned, before 7 S10 hits vaporizes four A boosted firestorm from the herald is dispelled with aplomb. And then the flamers erase the last two sisters (12 shots ftw).

Turn 5

Finally, the archers are able to put their possessed general out of his undeath, and yet another horror is ended by the dwindling elf ninjas.


The flamers scramble to mop up the shadow warriors if needed, as the last two horrors hang from the trees, hooting absentmindedly. 6-2 winds provide the juice for 3 S5 blue fire, easily enough to remove the shadow warriors with the help of warpflame.

Turn 6

Running drastically low on bolts, the archers reform once more but are unable to purge the woods of its infestation of horrors (he either failed the LD test or couldn’t roll enough).


At long last the horrors scuttle forth from the woods, yet a third massive 6-5 magic phase brings nothing (blue fire dispelled). The flamers prepare for glory … however 11 shots results in just one dead archer and a second from warpflame.

So all the same, that’s another DRAW for Tizz, winning by about 70 points after giving up half for the horrors per league rules. Too bad about the cheating with possession too Flipside, this is the first game in which I’ve remembered to summon horrors, which is way cool in practice.

Will see if I can grab another game this week, otherwise the next throwdown is the 500 point event on Sunday, which is a mega battle with everybody split into two teams!

- Salvage

So I ended up taking double byes through the first points level, which with my extra games put me 0-1-3 for DoT @ 500. Not totally awesome, but pretty whacky fun all the same. What will 1000 points hold? Perhaps a win for the blue daemons??

THE LIST

Herald of Tzeentch - level 1 (METAL), lesser gift
Herald of Tzeentch - level 1 (METAL)
15 Horrors - standard (gleaming pennant), musician
15 Horrors - standard, musician
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
3 Flamers
-------
1000

GAME THREE: WARRIORS OF KHORNE

Exalted Hero of Khorne - ogre blade, scaly skin, shield
10 Warriors of Khorne - full command (swiftness), ahw, shields
10 Warriors of Khorne - full command (lichebone), ahw, shields
5 Warhounds - scaly skin, vanguard
5 Knights of Khorne - full command (razor)

Ahhh the clash of opposites. Whose skewed list will reign supreme? Frothing nutters encased in armor with no time for magic or shooting, or gibbering idiot daemons sidled with a blaster lore that isn’t particularly good at blasting?



Exalted stomps the yard with his speedy warriors, whilst the general herald cuddles with the gleaming horrors and the other herald pow-wows with the other horrors. Puppies vanguard a bit.

MAGIC
Herald 1: Final Transmutation || Gift: Dark Blessing
Herald 2: Searing Doom
Horrors 1: Blue Fire
Horrors 2: Blue Fire

Sweet, the uber-spell from metal! This has to come in handy, between insta-gibbing warrior blocks and forcing yet another LD test, m’right??

BATTLE
Turn 1

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!


The herald in charge glances at his rival in the far horrors, swallows hard and waves his minions forward with one of his three arms. This just got real. Screamers overfly knights and warriors, slashing attaks yielding no wounds. The winds blow a rousing 6-4 (+1 Tizz), boosting ward saves, before the left horrors slam 4 S5 blue fire into the MR(1) warriors, killing three (and summoning two horrors), and the right follow with 5 S3, for another dead warrior and raised daemon … plus regen 6+ on the warriors. However the big non-event is six dice boosted searing doom failing to cast against the knights Finally the flamers cook three warhounds, panicking the pack back before warpflame ends the unit.

Turn 2

Regrettably, it is indeed time to let the ichor flow … The knights thunder 16” into the left horrors, preparing to grind. The MR warriors get worked up, fail frenzy and stumble towards the flamers, as the exalted leads his boys in in a more orderly fashion. 3.5+ wards flash and only three horrors fall to the knights, and amazingly one of the combat monsters is ripped from his saddle. The horrors lose but are fine.


Curious to see what would happen, the herald sends screamers into both flanks of the depleted warriors (1 left in rear rank) … and then backs his lads up. A second 5-5 wind whips up, keeping ward saves strong, and the unengaged horrors IF blue fire into the speedy warriors. 3 S2 does nothing to the warriors, 7 S10 does nothing to the horrors in return - MAGIC, HURR! Then the herald cracks a lot of knuckles, six dices final transmutation towards the exalted‘s boys, fails to IF, and Khorne stomps the spell. Unperturbed, the flamers blast into the warriors, burning one alive but giving the unit regen 6+. In combat, the screamers can’t dent a warrior, and after instability checks take four and two wounds respectively. Meanwhile a single horror dies, drawing combat with the knights.

Turn 3

Overeager as ever, the exalted and his lads fail their charge. But enough about warhammer, let’s throw some dice! The knights rock through nine horrors, despite uber-wards, and enough pop to leave just the herald + standard. The screamers continue to do nothing, and both units are left on a single wound each.

(I can guarantee I never remembered to take instability on steadfast against the knights )


More backing from Tizz, with extra gibbering for good measure. The winds calm down to 4+1 (+1 Tizz), and Tzeentch rains fire upon the Khorne general, scattering a bit and yielding nothing. All dice go to final trans on the warriors, managing to go IF, turning a single warrior to gold, and wounding the other herald and a horror with the miscast. The flamers patter against the warriors to no effect, and the screamers are fail too, though those warriors are pretty tired themselves, managing only to finish off one of the sky sharks. The knights trample the rest of their horror block and reform (despite some insane ward saves for the herald: 5-1-1-1-1 became 5-5-5-5-3 after rerolls, just enough to kill him thanks to the miscast wound O_O)

Turn 4

Truly frothing at this point, the exalted and crew once more fail their charge into the delicious squishy horrors! Not the knights however. A handful of horrors die for nothing back. Oh, and that screamer is finally gutted.

(Yep, forgot the Stupidity rolls thanks to final trans )


Trapped or aiming, the daemons await the coming of the winds. 6-1 (+1 Tizz) brings no presents, and the six diced final trans fails to IF and is crushed. The flamers wave their mittens and nothing happens, and in combat astoundingly nothing dies on either side! But as I deigned to reform to face, the combat is a draw.

Turn 5

At long last the exalted’s warriors power into the herald’s horrors. With the help of instability they are all reduced to jelly, and the wave of blue horrors that erupts can’t get past the warriors' defenses. The warriors overrun off table.


The flamers prepare for glory! 2+1 winds comes a turn too late to instagib the herald … or have any spells to cast. The flamers cook a warrior and boost his fellows’ regen to 5+ ftw.

Turn 6

*scoff*


The flamers take careful aim … 6+1 winds gives nothing awesome … and unleash 4+ hitting hell on the warriors! One dies, two more succumb to warpflame, and I get half points for the unit!

However it’s very much too little far too late - TIZZ LOSS (but not tabled )

Here’s what’s driving me nuts: I feel like I could have avoided this by a) taking a second searing doom instead of final trans, b) deploying further back with the expectation of not getting first, and c) using the screamers / extra herald like the chaff they are to delay for more searing dooms. I guess I’ll write it off as an experiment in screamer combat and final transmutation … but it would have felt good to at least draw against the beatstick that is khorne warriors

- Salvage

Sounds like a fun little league you have running there!

I would like to try something like this with the club I attend. Maybe with one of the elf races or empire.

Yea, it's already been really worth while, both to get games in and get stuff painted. Also neat to see so much of my club come out of the woodwork between tournaments, particularly in the winter hibernation months

If you're interested, here are the rules we're working off of: http://www.theshamblinghorde.com/campaignrules.htm

- Salvage

Sounds like the right conclusions. Final Trans is going to come in to its own when you start tangling with hordes. But small numbers of heavily armored dudes definitely sounds like Searing Doom territory to me.

Same on chaff- maybe pull a unit away for the whole game with frenzy and focus fire/magic on the rest. I don't have a good feel for how well chaff plays out when its Daemon stuff and you can't rely on it breaking when you need it to...

Nice report!

 Red_Zeke wrote:
Same on chaff- maybe pull a unit away for the whole game with frenzy and focus fire/magic on the rest. I don't have a good feel for how well chaff plays out when its Daemon stuff and you can't rely on it breaking when you need it to...

Even with one searing doom and the horrors so far forward and going second, I should have gotten maybe three doom attempts off on the knights, which had to have sealed their fate. First at range as the screamers redirected them off the table, second when they came back on, third when they chewed through the horrors and theoretically were reformed and waiting to charge (because the herald wouldn't have been in the unit any longer).

But as you say, ItP / Instable redirection is a weird one. No flee, and with the worst case scenario being when the screamers survive the initial charge in his turn, then die in mine, meaning no overrun and free reform-n-charge

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:

 Red_Zeke wrote:
Same on chaff- maybe pull a unit away for the whole game with frenzy and focus fire/magic on the rest. I don't have a good feel for how well chaff plays out when its Daemon stuff and you can't rely on it breaking when you need it to...

Even with one searing doom and the horrors so far forward and going second, I should have gotten maybe three doom attempts off on the knights, which had to have sealed their fate. First at range as the screamers redirected them off the table, second when they came back on, third when they chewed through the horrors and theoretically were reformed and waiting to charge (because the herald wouldn't have been in the unit any longer).

But as you say, ItP / Instable redirection is a weird one. No flee, and with the worst case scenario being when the screamers survive the initial charge in his turn, then die in mine, meaning no overrun and free reform-n-charge

- Salvage

Honestly I think you should take at least one of the Tzherald's to a Lv2 and roll on Lore of Tzeentch... Sure it's a pretty crappy lore overall, but Treason is nuts, and claiming a couple of spells first then allows your Horrors a better shot at Gateway/Firestorm which are much, much better spells than the rather pathetic Blue Fire. (you need too much of it to really achieve anything of note, and it's fairly worthless vs. Hordes.)

Screamers aren't so much chaff as they are chaff removes. They're decent against things like Fast Cav and hunting down missile troops/war machine crews and can use their slashing fly-bys while they're getting into position.
Bring some Furies for chaffing things up, and even better, maybe think of converting a Beast of Nurgle or two into a much more suitable 'Firewrym of Tzeentch'. (basically the old 6th ed MoT Spawn) As long as it looks properly Tzeentchy, your army stays mono.

Those Flamers look like they're starting to really wear out their usefulness.

Gotta agree with your assessment/ RedZeke's...

Searing Doom was the spell to spam in this fight. WoC is one of the few armies that really suffer vs. Lore of Metal!

Double searing doom each turn would probably have gotten you one casting off per magic phase which means the knights could have been brought low before they saw combat.

As a bonus, searing doom would still munch warriors after the knights got into combat/ were killed off.

Final tranny is really only great when dealing with the massive, low toughness/ leadership hordes.

**Side note/ Question: Screamers in the flank could have maybe delayed the knights, right? In future games could you use them to drive-by chaff/ missile troops then slam them in the flank of units like the knights or the warriors (like you did) to delay them for a turn or two?

Nice report, very enjoyable read . You are almost single-handedly getting me interested in fantasy again! Or at least, interested in anticipation of 9th edition since I'll likely wait out 8th at this point.

And lo! There were responses, at long last

Experiment 626 wrote:Honestly I think you should take at least one of the Tzherald's to a Lv2 and roll on Lore of Tzeentch... Sure it's a pretty crappy lore overall, but Treason is nuts, and claiming a couple of spells first then allows your Horrors a better shot at Gateway/Firestorm which are much, much better spells than the rather pathetic Blue Fire. (you need too much of it to really achieve anything of note, and it's fairly worthless vs. Hordes.)

So it should be noted that my lists are locked in for each points level as soon as I play my first match, thus even if I wanted to run TIZZ on a herald I couldn't at this moment. I'm also not sure I'm a believer? METAL provides such an amazing hard counter to many of the nastiest units in the game that it feels foolish to leave home without it ... I am becoming less enchanted by blue fire as I leave 500 points behind, less due to its weakness and more due to being a magic missile. It really really sucks to have these horror blocks sticking in combat but having nothing to do while stuck. Direct damaging something else - and regrowing their numbers in the process - seems like it might work? Ish? And as for treason, pretty sure it would have done nothing at all in this chaos match ... while of course it would ream other LD dependent armies, so my point is a bit moot

Screamers aren't so much chaff as they are chaff removes. They're decent against things like Fast Cav and hunting down missile troops/war machine crews and can use their slashing fly-bys while they're getting into position.
Bring some Furies for chaffing things up, and even better, maybe think of converting a Beast of Nurgle or two into a much more suitable 'Firewrym of Tzeentch'. (basically the old 6th ed MoT Spawn) As long as it looks properly Tzeentchy, your army stays mono.

Ehhh, in my army screamers are chaff, because as you see I'm not running furies, and have only the vaguest plans to in the far future. Much like flamers, when I say screamers are my chaff I mean they are able to perform a variety of rolls, including the ability to be sacrificed when dire need arises. And as for breaking mono-tzeentch, I am trying very hard not to. I actually have some Titan Forge decay daemons to use as solo beasts of nurgle ... but I'm going to keep holding off on that one. Honestly the main draw to breaking with Tzeentch's Will is to include some bloodcrushers, as I love the minis and desperately want a hammer!

Those Flamers look like they're starting to really wear out their usefulness.

I wouldn't say that quite yet. They killed their obvious target with ease, and then were up against almost the worst case target in the form of the warriors (multiple high armor decent toughness targets). I'd say they did alright for themselves

Pervertdhermit wrote:**Side note/ Question: Screamers in the flank could have maybe delayed the knights, right? In future games could you use them to drive-by chaff/ missile troops then slam them in the flank of units like the knights or the warriors (like you did) to delay them for a turn or two?

I think it's a workable tactic, and one I gladly would have used against the knights too if I had the time. Though I still think just plopping the screamers up at an angle and sending the knights off the board, buying time for more dooming, would have worked the charm. Ah well.

RiTides wrote:You are almost single-handedly getting me interested in fantasy again! Or at least, interested in anticipation of 9th edition since I'll likely wait out 8th at this point.

Ha! You even have an army still? Can't remember if you sold the trolls on. Ever check how that army converted into the new book? Would be curious to see ... even if you'd likely rock out an uber-prince to top the list off As for 9E, am waiting with some trepidation myself. 8E is the best edition of WHFB that I've played (started with 3E or 4E), would hate to see a sweeping rework. Thankfully that also seems unlikely, given all the work done to speed out the hardback armybooks, which one assumes GeeDub would want to keep relevant ...
Anyway, thanks for reading all, hoping to get a game or so in this weekend, then tell you all about it for some yule time reading next week

- Salvage

The people demand MOAR! No holiday breaks!

(For myself, I have to build up another one, as I parted with the trolls. Fingers crossed that 9th ed is a good thing...)

Last Sunday of 2013, and the crew was out in strength. Time for a doubleheader

GAME FOUR: WARRIORS OF SLAANESH

Chaos Sorcerer - level 2 (SLAANESH), talisman of preservation, enchanted shield, chaos familiar, steed of slaanesh
12 Warriors of Slaanesh - standard (gleaming pennant), musician, halberds, shields
5 Warhounds - vanguard
5 Hellstriders - standard, musician
Gorebeast Chariot
Hellcannon



Sorcerer rides with the striders, whilst general herald hand jives with the gleaming horrors and LT giggles to himself in the other horrors. Both warhounds and striders vanguard up a hearty distance.

MAGIC
Sorcerer: Lash of Slaanesh, Hysterical Frenzy, Slicing Shards

Herald 1: Searing Doom || Gift: Noxious Breath
Herald 2: Searing Doom
Horrors 1: Blue Fire
Horrors 2: Blue Fire

Rolling for spells. Bah.

BATTLE
Turn 1

Suffering from a moment of clarity, the herald in charge of the gibbering throng suddenly raises a pseudopod, gestures the flanks forward, and then backs the horror batteries up. The left screamers drift forward, while the right flamers swoop over the striders, dropping one. The winds begin to blow with a weak 2-2 (+1 Slaanesh), reducing ward saves, and seeing 3 S5 blue fire into the warhounds, cooking three and ending the remaining two with warpflame, plus summoning one horror. Then searing doom into the gorebeast is dispelled. Finally, the flamers unleash 7 shots into the hellstriders, felling one and hideously mutating the last three, stranding the sorcerer.


Stripped of his more subtle options, the sorcerer can do nothing but order his boys (ish) forward full bore - though ironically he himself fails his march block and can only zip forward 10”. Winds roll up 5-3 (+2 Tizz), resulting in shards being dispelled and lash whipping through the horrors, killing one. Shortly thereafter, the hellcannon scatters wildly off of the flamers.

Turn 2

The screamers continue to harass the warrior lines: the left pack manages to strip a wound off of the gorebeast, however the right pack can't make it through the sorcerer’s impressive saves. The winds pick up with 6-2 (+1 Tizz), and though the first searing doom against the gorebeast is dispelled, the second goes irresistible and burns three more wounds off of the hulking chariot. The miscast wounds the herald general and kills a horror from both units. With 9 shots the flamers manage to tag a wound onto the sorcerer, but he passes his warpflame test and gains some regen for his troubles.


The chaos mortals thunder forward - including the hellcannon, which flips out and lurches 10” for the screamers. Deep behind enemy lines and needing some power behind him, the sorcerer is gifted a weak 2-1 winds (+1 Slaanesh & +1 Tizz), seeing shards dispelled and lash fail to cast.

Turn 3

Skysharks circle their targets menacingly to no effect, as horrors jazz hand and back up further. And then the winds rip through the field with 6-5 (+1 Tizz), insta-gibbing the Slaaneshi sorcerer! A third searing doom herald crawls out of the stinking mess of steed and rider, cackling madly. The first searing doom onto the gorebeast is dispelled, while the second finishes it off and the third wounds the hellcannon and kills a dwarf handler. The flamers wave their mittens ineffectually at the hellcannon, having forgotten to advance into range …


Forward mortals, yes! Into our coruscating embrace!

Turn 4

Screamers scream around, as the noxious herald gets into sweet flamer position (along with everybody else). 4-2 winds bring some serious attention from Papa Nurgle, killing the herald general before he can unleash burning hell! The remaining heralds fail a searing doom onto the warriors but follow it up with an irresistible success, cooking three in their armor for no damage back (no one in base). The flamers then wash the warriors with fire, fragging one and giving the unit regen 6+.


At long last the drugged up purple warriors slam into the gibbering daemons, laying into them with cruel barbed halberds … to virtually no effect! Shockingly only a single horror is cleft in two in the assault, with a further three popping thanks to instability.

(He caused 13-14 wounds but I warded all but the 1 )

Turn 5

Needing something to do as the horrors play with the Slaanesh elite, Tzeentch turns its attentions to the hellcannon. 5-2 winds results in a dispelled searing doom and a second that fails to cast, while 14 flamer shots can’t touch the hellcannon. The warriors then figure out the horrors’ bizarre anatomy and shred the unit down to standard and musician, losing one to blue horror ‘splosions in the process.


Rage! The hellcannon rampages into the screamers at its flank, grinding them beneath its iron wheels (seriously, it was all t-stomp doing the work here). The warriors similarly finish off some annoying blue daemons.

Turn 6

The remaining eight warriors reform to face the summoned herald, before being ripped into by the waiting screamers (1 dead) and finding themselves the focus of a lot of chaotic magic. A second 5-1 winds calls Nurgle back to the field, this time claiming a Slaaneshi warrior, as the freebie herald revs up a boosted searing doom. It goes IF, melting the warrior block to slag and stripping the herald’s magic levels off in exchange.


The hellcannon roars out a parting shot, pinholing the second in command herald … who makes his ward save

At long last, that‘s a TIZZ VICTORY

Second game is coming up, this one against Moar High Elves!

- Salvage

GAME FIVE: HIGH ELVES

Loremaster - sword of might, enchanted shield, dragonbane gem
Noble BSB - lance, dragon armor, shield, barded horse
10 Silver Helms - full command
20 Sword Masters - full command
Bolt Thrower



The loremaster rolls out with the sword masters, the noble BSB with the silver helms, the herald general with the gleaming horrors and the other herald with the other horrors.

MAGIC
Loremaster: All. The. Spells.

Herald 1: Searing Doom || Gift: Wand of Whimsy
Herald 2: Searing Doom
Horrors 1: Blue Fire
Horrors 2: Gateway

Spoiler? I never got a charge off on the Wand

BATTLE
Turn 1

A notoriously hesitant player at times, the elf general takes a breath and slams all his dudes forward for a change of pace. Into a tree limb in the case of a silver helm and the BSB, who both take wounds. 3-1 (+1 HE) winds start the game’s magic portion, resulting in shem’s onto the flamers for a single wound plus a failed fireball attempt. The bolter misses the right screamers.


The heralds bail out, the horrors back up, the screamers fly up - over the sword masters as it were, for a dead elf. Weak 2-2 (+1 HE) winds continue, reducing wards and getting gateway dispelled. The flamers take careful aim at the swordies and cook two, and two more when they fail warpflame.

Turn 2

Wanting nothing more than to erase the gateway horrors, the silver helms declare a charge into them … but fail to roll a 7, trotting forward 3” and losing a couple more of their number to the evils of Citadel terrain. The swordies continue to sprint down the flank, as the loremaster begins muttering sweet arcane nothings to himself. Winds kick up 6-2 (+2 Tizz), seeing shem’s on the flamers dispelled but a second level fireball make it through irresistibly. A full daemon burns up, shortly before six sword masters are vaporized and the lore master himself takes a wound. Finally, the bolter crew again fails to hurt any of the screamers swooping in to devour them.


The right screamers swoop in to devour the bolter crew, and the left screamers tear two silver helms from their saddles. Flamers play Divert the Blender as the thin blue line continues to back up. 4-3 winds give enough power to searing doom a single silver helm and fail to cast gateway, before the flamers get their last shot on the swordies. Luckily they make it count, melting three elves plus two more with warpflame The screamers slap against the bolter crew and manage to eat one of the crew, but the other elf holds in the face of such ineptitude.

Turn 3

All the charges! Silverhelms make it into the gate horrors, swordies into flamers. Winds blow 4-2 (+1 HE), but a failed casting of iceshard blizzard on the flamers (with 1-1-1) cuts the phase short. The flamers and the bolter are dispatched with ease, however the helm combat goes seriously awry. The elf cavalry fails fear twice and the noble manages to skewer a daemon … before he’s ripped from the saddle by cackling monsters! A couple more horrors pop from the instability check, but whatever


Screamers swarm the unengaged sword masters, filling two elite elven warriors with barbs. Yet another 3-1 winds roll drops ward saves, but it’s enough to power through a gateway onto the swordies! 2 S6 is distinctly underwhelming, killing the sword master standard, wounding the loremaster, giving the champ and loremaster regen, and summoning two horrors. In combat the few remaining helms beat down a horror, lose one of their number in return, and break. The horrors scramble after them but can’t catch the fleeing champ and his musician (the standard having slit his throat rather then be defiled by daemons).

Turn 4

Covered in spines and the blood of their companions, their lily white skin blistered and robes smoldering, the loremaster and his champion hurl themselves into the flank of the victorious horrors. A massive 6-5 surge fills the loremaster with renewed purpose … unfortunately a failed casting of wildform ends his magical onslaught before it begins. In combat the loremaster and champion hack down five horrors in a burst of fury, forcing the entire unit back into the warp! However the flood of blue horrors grab hold of the final sword master and drag him back with them! The loremaster overruns 8” through the cloud of dissipating ectoplasm, falling 1” short of the second horror unit and safety.


Drawn by the massive spill of ichor, the screamers descend upon the loremaster and tear him to shreds. A final 6-2 (+1 Tizz) winds roll calls the attention of Slaanesh herself, who calls the silver helm musician off into his embrace, shortly before both heralds unleash searing dooms into the helm champion, burning him alive.

With no more elves to bugger, that‘s a second TIZZ VICTORY! Bangarang!

Happy way to end the year’s gaming, will see if I can’t get a few more horrors painted before everything wraps up. Which reminds me, I owe you all some pics of my blue dudes

- Salvage

That game was even more depressing reading it, rather than actually living it.

Sorry for poking those fresh wounds, dude!

jayzerus wrote:
That game was even more depressing reading it, rather than actually living it.

You do deserve some serious props for seeing the match through, though as I've shown elsewhere, the longer you stick around, the more likely I roll up that 1-1 magic phase, insta-gib my stuff and toss some BP your way

- Salvage

I was stoked to see this posted, planning to read them over the break (stuck at work today, unfortunately)

Just read the new double-header . 1000 points seems to be seeing your army perform much better! In the first game, your chaff hunters absolutely murdered his chaff from the get-go, and left you with all the options. I'm not sure I like the hellcannon shooting on the first turn against you... since WoC have no way to reroll the scatter (unlike CD!) it seems to have a decent chance of doing nothing and leaving it way out of the fight.

In the second game, your skirmishy units rocked again, and you're playing them really well! It seems your opponent got unlucky in one magic phase, but in the latter one did he simply not roll enough dice to pass the big spell, or what?

Very entertaining reads, and glad to see the wins coming in in the nick of time for your 2013 gribblies

Nice! Gotta admit the Slaanesh game gives me a bit of the heebie jeebies. I've got 1000 assembled of my Slaanesh cav list, and am still in denial that there's some Bad News Bears matchups out there.

Entertainingly (perhaps only to me) I kept reading the Gorebeast chariot as being a Slaughterbrute, and marveled at the zaniness...

 RiTides wrote:
Just read the new double-header . 1000 points seems to be seeing your army perform much better! In the first game, your chaff hunters absolutely murdered his chaff from the get-go, and left you with all the options. I'm not sure I like the hellcannon shooting on the first turn against you... since WoC have no way to reroll the scatter (unlike CD!) it seems to have a decent chance of doing nothing and leaving it way out of the fight.

In the second game, your skirmishy units rocked again, and you're playing them really well! It seems your opponent got unlucky in one magic phase, but in the latter one did he simply not roll enough dice to pass the big spell, or what?

Very entertaining reads, and glad to see the wins coming in in the nick of time for your 2013 gribblies

It helps too in smaller 1000-1250pts games that Daemons can't viably field a Lord choice at all until you're playing about 2250pts or higher.

On the other hand, some opponents are blowing 20-25% of their total pts on a single model, which is giving a huge advantage to anyone who's NOT using that Lord option. Keep in mind that for the cost of that single 250pts Lord, Tzippie's kids are bringing a pair of Heroes and that's it - the other roughly 75% of the total pts are going into units, instead of being spread among yet more characters and units.
While a Loremaster for example can really rock the house in smaller games, if he falls flat and can't work his magic, he becomes too much dead weight. (ie: dropping him to just a Lv1 Mage would have left pts for The Banner, and/or another couple of Bolters, and/or some Reavers, and/or a pair of Eagles, etc...)

Also just as an observation, unless you guys have a special Campaign rule, I calculated that Loremaster as being 260pts total, meaning he's slightly over the 25% max for Lords.

cool little read salvave makes me want to work on my lizards cant wait for the next update...grats on the wins looking forward to more of this.

Congratulations! I think you played your army beautifully in both of those games.

You maximized shooting/ searing doom and ran drive-bys with the screamers as often as possible before going for the flank/ rear charges!

I disagree that your wins will only happen at lower points/ versus sub par (non-optimal) lists and I think that not taking a lord choice, in general, is a huge boon to an army like yours.

Not sure if you are thinking greater daemon at higher levels or not, but I think the style you are playing now will better serve you than a 500+ pt beat stick!

First off, Merry 2014 peeps! Secondly, Happy Snowpocalypse (if you're in the NE USA)!

RiTides wrote:It seems your opponent got unlucky in one magic phase, but in the latter one did he simply not roll enough dice to pass the big spell, or what?

He's new to running a loremaster, and he mentioned before we began how he still wasn't sure how to manage having eight spells for one dude. He ended up just having enough dice to toss for shem's & fireball, with me stopping one and not caring too much about the other one, thanks to dice happening. And then there was the turn that he rolled 1-1-1 for his first spell On a level 2 that surprisingly doesn't cast many of the signature spells. As for the hellcannon, it seems a little weird for 1000 points, for lack of many targets worth one-shot-ing, though I'm guessing the LD shenanigans are pretty brutal at 1000 points ... if your army cares about that sort of thing

Fun Fact: Last time I played in an escalation league I ran Warriors of Tzeentch under the old book, and absolutely cleaned up with my hellcannon at 1000 points. But then I used it as an unbreakable combat monster and never shot it (There's actually a good chance the batreps are here on Dakka!)

Red_Zeke wrote:I've got 1000 assembled of my Slaanesh cav list, and am still in denial that there's some Bad News Bears matchups out there.

Nice dude! I really do dig hellstriders, have contemplated what a bus of them could get done with some help from their friends. I'm not sure Tizz Daemons hard counters Slaanesh Warriors that hard, however light cav are particularly vulnerable to the kind of damage we bring (shooting / magic missiles of generally low strength, with metal magic to crack the armored things, all aimed at distinctly small units). Quite excited to hear about your adventures on the tabletop

Experiment 626 wrote:On the other hand, some opponents are blowing 20-25% of their total pts on a single model, which is giving a huge advantage to anyone who's NOT using that Lord option. Keep in mind that for the cost of that single 250pts Lord, Tzippie's kids are bringing a pair of Heroes and that's it - the other roughly 75% of the total pts are going into units, instead of being spread among yet more characters and units.
While a Loremaster for example can really rock the house in smaller games, if he falls flat and can't work his magic, he becomes too much dead weight. (ie: dropping him to just a Lv1 Mage would have left pts for The Banner, and/or another couple of Bolters, and/or some Reavers, and/or a pair of Eagles, etc...)

Also just as an observation, unless you guys have a special Campaign rule, I calculated that Loremaster as being 260pts total, meaning he's slightly over the 25% max for Lords.

There's a chance I'm wrong on the loremaster's kit? I'm sure things add up, or if not then he just lost track of percentages or something. As we saw - and you point out - the lord didn't do all that much, though he was pretty instrumental in popping that unit of horrors once it became time for last ditch combat action ... Good points on the use of lords in small games. I was pretty surprised to see the loremaster, likewise the hellcannon. Now that I think of it, all of the other daemon armies in the league are running soulgrinders at this points level ... and the ogres are packing ironblasters

alabamaheretic wrote:cool little read salvave makes me want to work on my lizards cant wait for the next update...grats on the wins looking forward to more of this.

Happy to be inspirational! Next game is the last 1000 pointer, a proper rematch against the gunline elves I played at 500, then a random paired doubles tournament on Jan 11th

Pervertdhermit wrote:I think that not taking a lord choice, in general, is a huge boon to an army like yours.

Not sure if you are thinking greater daemon at higher levels or not, but I think the style you are playing now will better serve you than a 500+ pt beat stick!

Thanks Hermit! The sad thing is I really do like beating on things ... I've tried not to spoil my lists but I will say I'm busting out a DP at 1500 points, and the plan is to keep him in the list all the way out. I've gotten pretty interested in running a big bird, after hearing people talk about their successes with various builds, but I'll probably hold off until after the league. My first run with the DoT was a lord-less 2500 pointer, with a couple disc heralds zipping around and metal magicking things ... but frankly it was very, very disappointing. I feel like going the herald route works better in a mixed (or just not Tizz) list, where you can spend the saved points on smashy things, but I just don't feel like I have much to invest in without going Skittles, once I max out on chariots and screamers. I guess I could take a max sized flamer squad

Stay tuned, elf beatdown should be soonish.

- Salvage

I read a few posts back that you were talking about Soul Grinders as well... So screamers, chariots, grinders... I suppose you are correct though. The Tizz pool dries up afterward. If flamers were still the last incarnation you probably could not fit ENOUGH of them into your list how the world turns...

DP at 1500!? I will wait with intrigue, I feel like that is a huge chunk of the army for such low points levels! Gonna be interesting, keep the reps coming!

I'm just hoping that the Demon Prince-to-be manages to Glean a comet off the enemy. So Boss can relive the true glory days...

(Behold: The Derpitude Itself)

 Boss Salvage wrote:
First off, Merry 2014 peeps! Secondly, Happy Snowpocalypse (if you're in the NE USA)!

We only got 3 inches down here, but we're pretty stoked about it (and I already had the day off!)

Boss Salvage wrote:As for the hellcannon, it seems a little weird for 1000 points, for lack of many targets worth one-shot-ing, though I'm guessing the LD shenanigans are pretty brutal at 1000 points ... if your army cares about that sort of thing

Fun Fact: Last time I played in an escalation league I ran Warriors of Tzeentch under the old book, and absolutely cleaned up with my hellcannon at 1000 points. But then I used it as an unbreakable combat monster and never shot it (There's actually a good chance the batreps are here on Dakka!)

Ah, I didn't think of the LD shenanigans! But against you, at least, I think he should have gone the combat monster route

Boss Salvage wrote:

Red_Zeke wrote:I've got 1000 assembled of my Slaanesh cav list, and am still in denial that there's some Bad News Bears matchups out there.

Nice dude! I really do dig hellstriders, have contemplated what a bus of them could get done with some help from their friends. I'm not sure Tizz Daemons hard counters Slaanesh Warriors that hard, however light cav are particularly vulnerable to the kind of damage we bring (shooting / magic missiles of generally low strength, with metal magic to crack the armored things, all aimed at distinctly small units). Quite excited to hear about your adventures on the tabletop

Agreed... point me to it if you start posting about that, RZ! Would love to see your escapades no matter how small starting out.

Red_Zeke wrote:I'm just hoping that the Demon Prince-to-be manages to Glean a comet off the enemy. So Boss can relive the true glory days...

Third Eye of Tzeentch glory days!? Those were, indeed

So the league has moved on to 1500 points, however it’s proven hard to get games lined up, between work, family, Superbowls and birthdays. Today I managed to track Orzabal down to his mancave for our daemonic cuddlefest …

THE LIST

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch - greater gift, lesser gift
Herald of Tzeentch - level 1 (METAL)
20 Horrors - standard (gleaming pennant), musician
20 Horrors - standard, musician
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
3 Flamers
Burning Chariot
-------
1500

GAME SIX: DAEMONS OF SLAANESH

Herald of Slaanesh - level 1 (SHADOW), locus of swiftness
Herald of Slaanesh - BSB, level 1 (SHADOW), greater gift
22 Daemonettes - full command, banner of swiftness
10 Horrors
3 Fiends
5 Seekers
5 Seekers
1 Beast of Nurgle
Soul Grinder of Slaanesh
-------
1497

*shakes head at the Skittle Factor*



Both Slaaneshi heralds rolled with the daemonette posse, giving all the ladies ASF. Meanwhile the Tzeentch herald, now happily disposable, cowered amongst the non-gleaming horrors for the nonce. Both seekers vanguarded up slightly, staying out of 20” from the screamers and their barbs.

MAGIC
Slaanesh Herald: Miasma
Slaanesh BSB: Pendulum || Gift: Fencer’s Blades
‘Slaanesh’ Horrors: Blue Fire

Daemon Prince: N/A || Gifts: Corpulence (+1W), Sword of Swift Slaying
Herald: Searing Doom
Horrors 1: Blue Fire
Horrors 2: Blue Fire

Slaanesh was immediately wracked with guilt over choosing Pendulum, while Tzeentch grumbled at length about Blue Fire being a garbage spell. So it is in the Eye of Terror.

BATTLE
Turn 1

Skullflux - Daemon Prince of Tzeentch, Exalted Gibberer & Arch-Coruscator - steps sideways into real space, gestures towards the massing Slaaneshi legion, and lets lose a mind-flaying shriek. A low babbling swells from his minions’ ranks as they scuttle and float forward in answer. 3-2 (+1 Slaanesh) winds brings Tizz Himself to the field to get things rolling, a rain of fire cooking a seeker and wounding the accursed beast of nurgle! The horrors follow that showing up with a failed single die blue fire, a 3 S2 blue fire into the beast that causes a second wound but amps it up to 3+ regen (plus raises a horror), and a searing doom into the grinder that can’t wound with the single hit rolled up. The flamers, having advanced rather aggressively, wash the beast with pyrotechnics, but 10 shots can’t make a single 6+ to hit.


As it would turn out, the blue gribblies had advanced rather too far across the board … Seekers make 17-18” charges into screamers left and right, as the beast and daemonette-star slam across the same distance in the center (!), whilst the grinder and fiends were not quite able to join in the alpha strike. 3-1 (+2 Tizz) winds isn’t enough to get any spells through, however more importantly daemonic saves are weakened across both armies, just in time for assault-a-go-go … The left screamers take three wounds, tear down three seekers, then 6-6 the instability (at -1) and pop! The right screamers are less vicious but equally screwed, taking three wounds, three more from instability and dealing none in return. Shortly thereafter the flamers are minced by the two heralds, their last couple wounds burning off in the face of overwhelming CR - but not before the Slaaneshi general takes a wound for his/her trouble The beast overruns into the left horrors and the daemonettes fall short of the other gaggle by an inch.

Turn 2

Tizz readies for the grind, with much prepping of guns and bailing out of heralds. 4-3 (+1 Slaanesh) winds manages a 2 S4 blue fire into the fiends, for a wound, 6+ regen and a raised horror. The burning chariot lines up a sexy flank flame, rolls the 10” it didn’t want, clips two daemonettes with S3 weaksauce and accomplishes nothing. The screamer is filleted a matter of seconds later, however when it comes to the beast of nurgle and the horrors, although the beast is able to nuzzle two blue boys to goo, it loses combat to CR and dissipates


Slaanesh Beta Strike, go! Daemonette-star prance into the horrors, seekers slingshot around the tower into the rear of the chariot, and fiends cavort into the waiting flank of the prince. 5-2 (+1 Slaanesh) winds are cast aside due to the wounded Slaanesh general not wanting to blow up in the process of miasma-ing the DP. The fiends begin the assault by tearing a wound off of Skullflux, losing one of their number to his blurring blows in the process, though the prince shrugs off the resulting instability test (#BROWNTROUSERS). The seekers wound the chariot twice and dissolve it with CR, overrun into the flank of the horrors and prepare for another round of carnage. All told the horrors lose nine of their number, while managing to pull down one seeker and one daemonette - and tearing apart the Slaanesh BSB! The horrors are faced with a hefty instability test AND REALITY BLINKS, resetting the lost wounds The daemonettes expand their frontage to better scrap faces off (and the prince reforms to face the fiends as well).

Turn 3

Welcome to the grind, ladies! The Tizz herald is march blocked and unlikely to escape the lone seeker hunting him down, so takes aim at the grinder and hopes to make it count. 4-2 (+1 Tizz) winds can’t get the attention of Papa Nurgle, though it gives all the juice the herald needs for a boosted searing doom, which makes it through without IF. Nine hits against the grinder results in four wounds, brutally crippling the monster. Skullflux victoriously high fives the fiends, leaving a single beast on one wound. In the grand melee, six horrors are diced (part two), a single daemonette is groped to death, and the explosion of blue horrors shreds three of the four remaining seekers. The horrors easily pass their instability.


The last of the Slaanesh charges make it in: the solo seeker races in for the Tizz herald’s head(s), as the soul grinder falls upon the waiting horrors, soul stuff leaking from the rents in its charred hull. 6-3 winds call Slaanesh Herself to the field, but with no free targets (and the Slaanesh general still on one wound), the phase comes and goes. In combat the Tzeentch prince splatters the wounded fiend and reforms, while the herald takes a single wound from the seeker but happily passes its instability test. The big brawl sees a handful of horrors dead for one daemonette and the last of the flanking seekers, and in a spiteful display the horrors fighting the grinder ward save everything the daemonic machine is able to dish out on top of wounding it! However REALITY BLINKS again and that fifth wound disappears


Hideous phone pic after reforms!

Turn 4

Skullflux hurls himself into the throng of daemonettes, and, after a brief pause for the winds of chaos (4-2 +1 Tizz), begins dismembering the lilac daemons with aplomb. Such is the pressure of the prince’s assault that the entire unit pops (6-6 instability) and is sent screaming back to the warp! Meanwhile the soul grinder figures out what stomps do, leveling a rank of horrors but taking that fifth wound back from the waves of blue horrors released upon it. Finally, the Tizz herald and Slaanesh seeker slap fight to no effect.


Slaanesh is again summoned to the mortal realm thanks to 5-4 (+2 Tizz) winds, but thankfully isn’t interested in insta-gibbing any princes today. As the purplish horrors bicker amongst themselves, the Tizz herald batters the seeker into submission, and the grinder squishes a few more horrors.

Turn 5

Deciding that the horrors should be able to handle that grinder’s last wound, Skullflux sprints for the enemy horrors. 4-3 winds give a tantalizing amount of dice to work with, so, despite the herald’s complaints about blue fire not being worth it, the horrors let rip an IF 6 S3 shot into their counterparts. Not a single purple horror falls … however 8 S10 detonates five blue ones! Lesson learned. The grinder then smugly finishes off a rank of his own horrors.


The infidel horrors call upon the powers of a 4-1 (+1 Tizz) winds (Nurgle is uninterested despite all the Tzeentch happening) to squeak a 2 S6 blue fire back onto the herald’s horrors. One dies, leaving the herald to hand jive with just the standard and musician. At long last, the Slaanesh grinder succumbs to the raw weight of all those jazz hands

Turn 6

Skullflux docks with the traitorous horrors. 6-3 (+1 Tizz) winds rip across the plain to no avail. And half of the enemy left on the table are deleted.


The Tzeentch prince jellies the remaining horrors with a shriek of triumph, before snapping his fingers and vanishing along with his remaining minions. To the Eye!

TIZZ VICTORY, though only by 1000 points, as I played the muppet quite a bit there with anything that moves faster than 4” and isn’t a daemon prince

- Salvage

As it would turn out, the blue gribblies had advanced rather too far across the board …

Wow, that was a scary start

The burning chariot lines up a sexy flank flame, rolls the 10” it didn’t want, clips two daemonettes with S3 weaksauce and accomplishes nothing.

Lol

The horrors are faced with a hefty instability test AND REALITY BLINKS, resetting the lost wounds

...

However REALITY BLINKS again and that fifth wound disappears

What is "reality blinks"? If daemons roll snake eyes do they get all the wounds back from that combat? That really seemed to make a difference, saving you 9 horrors at a critical moment! I'm pleasantly surprised by how well your horrors are seeming to stick around in combat

* With the screamers, I had intended to use them to keep the seekers honest by moving up to about 19-20" away ... but by the time I had moved the models on the flanks of the units up I ended up a couple inches closer than anticipated With the flamers, I was being overly aggressive moving them within 18", but I still don't think that was too ridiculous. Retaliatory charge rolls weren't insignificant: 11-12 for beast, 9-10 for grinder, 10-11 for daemonettes. I suppose an alarm should have gone off for me, that while all three of those charges are unlikely, allowing all three to go against the same unit makes it more likely at least one will succeed (and kill the flamers no matter who makes it in).

* Not convinced in the least on burning chariots. SD6 is bad on a template weapon that is already hard to hit with, and grapeshot as is doesn't work in 8E due to too many BS negatives. I've got 3 more 1500 games with this one, then I'll probably run double chariots in 2000, but come 2500 I'm switching over to baleful grinder(s) for my template needs

* 'Reality Blinks' is what happens when you roll 1-1 for instability. Not only are no additional wounds taken but all wounds caused to that unit (including characters in it) that round of combat are returned

You know what would really help horrors stick around in combat? If Blue Fire were direct damage, so they could at least raise a little bit while grinding. And, you know, magic things, which being magic daemons of the magic god of magic would make sense

- Salvage

Great report! Daemons vs Daemons is pretty wacky. I was expecting ward saves to be spiking all over the place, but it looked like the gods were more interested in taking a peek in on the action (makes sense I suppose)

I'm kind of surprised he didn't go double miasma rather than taking pendulum. I've considered the possibilities of pendulum, and with a lot of mobility and the right targets (like bolt throwers in a line) it might surprise someone, but generally? Not so hot.

Is there any metal magic spell you would have considered besides searing doom if you'd rolled it? When you selected it, I couldn't figure out what it was going to do, forgetting that the soulgrinder had an armor save. Off the top of my head, I can only think of final transmutation having any worth, given the pseudo-deathstar.

Thought you were up against it early- way to pull through!

He was totally kicking himself about not doubling down on Miasma. Pendulum might have made sense because of my mediocre Init? Except it's good (4) to excellent (8) on the single targets worth penduluming

The concept with the Metal herald is to always have access to an extremely hard counter to some of the nastier things in the metagame - knight buses and MC are all very high armor, as are chariots and some of the beefier big things (stank much?). I'm actually a fan of all of Metal, however only Searing Doom and Final Trans are really worth the IF, and that's really the only way the herald is casting his spell.

One of the most useful spells for this army and its general struggle to hit things is Enchanted Blades ... but again, hard to justify going big on, and too easily dispelled to depend on in a fix otherwise. For the record, I rolled up Plague of Rust here, which was essentially useless vs this army, though it could have nibbled at the grinder's save (which my opponent NEVER made anyway )

- Salvage

I have the same thoughts about metal, and love that you're using it

I roll TZ with Khannons at 2k, with dual lvl2 metal heralds and TZ magic on LOC and horrors.

Great uses of metal IMO:

Enchanted blades Makes screamers very good, works very well on chariots, LOC (Obvs)

Glittering Robe: is underrated. I ran up on DE twice at Waaaghpaca Had 15 horrors charge ito 14 Witch Elves and with glittering robe won combat.

Transmutation of Lead. Is a great hex for whoever the LOC, and my Khannons are fighting, if they are WS 3 it then makes them hit on 5's

I think metal really works well with the synergies, and I hope it continues to work well for you.

Remember that DE list (*cough* five warlocks *cough*) that tore me apart at 500? Came up against him again this Sunday for our real league battle, but this time at 1500 points. Spoiler: there are even more warlocks

GAME SEVEN: DARK ELVES

Supreme Sorceress - level 3 (DARK), talisman of endurance, dispel scroll, dark steed
Master - BSB, armor of fortune, dragonbane gem, lance, shield, sea dragon cloak, dark steed
10 Darkshards - musician, shields
6 Dark Riders - musician, xbows, shields
6 Dark Riders - musician, xbows, shields
Hydra - flaming breath
Reaper Bolt Thrower
Reaper Bolt Thrower
8 Warlocks - master
6 Warlocks

He’s headed towards a full blown warlockstar at 2500, though frankly it appears to have arrived early



The sorceress and master interlock with the large warlocks, forming DOOMFIRESTAR!!™ The expendable herald loads up with the non-glittering horrors. All the elf stuff that can vanguard will do so.

MAGIC
Supreme Sorceress: Power of Darkness, Word of Pain, Soul Stealer
Doomfire Warlocks: Doombolt, Soulblight

Daemon Prince: N/A || Gifts: Corpulence (+1W), Sword of Swift Slaying
Herald: Searing Doom
Horrors 1: Blue Fire
Horrors 2: Tzeentch’s Firestorm

For the interested, the Tizz herald rolled up Enchanted Blades and strongly contemplated keeping it, but defaulted to something he could IF and get points with. The gleaming horrors rolled up Glean, and while tempted to keep it to strip the spells from his warlocks, decided not to. I still think Glean could have been workable in this match up, but it didn’t work at 500 points vs. one unit of warlocks, so I went with something more tzappy here. The joke, as it turned out, was completely on me

BATTLE
Turn 1

Emerging from his peaceful woodland garden, Skullflux suddenly spots a Dark Elven raiding party out hunting for souls! Quelling an unwelcome bout of nausea, the daemon prince points damningly at the mounted bastards, takes a deep breath and screams “USE ALL THE MOVEMENT ARROWS!!”

Screamers swarm out from behind their idol / scratching post, one unit overflying the vanguarded driders for first blood, and the other preparing to storm artillery hill. The burning chariot floats up to likewise power into the static part of the elf line, whilst lining up a shot on the smaller of the much hated warlocks. Meanwhile, the horrors shamble up, flamers bound out of the woods and wave their mittens menacingly at the smaller warlocks, and Skullflux steps to the edge of his sanctuary, gesturing obscenely. The first winds of the game slam through at 6-5 (+1 Tizz), however the sorceress is able to resist the will of Tzeentch threatening to break her soul. A blue fire sparkles across the battlefield in her moment of distraction (JK! The DE player never stopped it. You’ll see why …), the 1 S5 hit against the left driders failing to make it past their burly 4+ armor save. The lightshow is followed up by an IF boosted firestorm into the warlockstar, but it scatters 11” into nothing. The 10 S10 backlash however evaporates four horrors! Result?! Finally, the chariot manages to catch two warlocks with a good scatter, though S2 amounts to nada. The flamers show the Internet how it’s done and kill a warlock with 11 shots, plus give the rest 6+ regen for giggles.


Driders, ho! The left squad charges the waiting screamers, as the right gets into position to harass the prince. The hydra also trundles forward, catching up with the warlocks waiting patiently for their pet. Another enormous 6-6 winds blows in! Three dice doombolt on the chariot is dispelled, and the second three dice doombolt to the DP fails to cast. A four dice soul stealer hit’s the herald’s horrors, killing two and boosting the sorceress up to four wounds. A final two dice power of darkness is dispelled to end the phase. The darkshards then unleash on the incoming screamers, doing a single wound. Both reapers empty into the screamers as well, managing another wound a piece, as the right driders can’t scratch the prince in the woods. The left driders fair worse, failing their fear test, losing two riders, but managing to hold.

Turn 2

Tzeentch smash! Screamers and chariot swoop into the bolt throwers, the screamers angled to flank the darkshards if given the chance. The rest of the Tizz line forms up, with the prince still hiding in his woodland retreat. A 3-2 winds brings only passing attention from Tzeentch Himself, and gives just enough juice to squeak out a 2 S1 blue fire into the smaller warlocks (…), plus a scrolled firestorm. 11 more shots from the flamers can’t tag a warlock this time around, but who needs shooting when you can eat artillery! Both reapers are gibbed, though the screamers’ dreams of overrunning are quashed when the darkshards panic to the edge of the hill! Also, all those dark riders are nommed up, ponies and all.


The darkshards rally (barely!), while the hydra prepares to flame things, the surviving driders penetrate further into Tizz space, and the warlockstar backs up a smidge to make Skullflux’s life a little harder. Of course a 6-3 (+1 DE) winds roll will make it even harder! The phase opens with a three dice doom bolt (no doubles) into the prince, and after a lot of debate, the herald in charge of dispelling decides he can soak it. 10 hits becomes 3 wounds with a heavy side of lamentation! The six dice boosted doombolt into some horrors that follows is shut down with a vengeance. As promised, the hydra breaths on the screamers and chariot, wounding both targets once, and the driders patter off the prince’s ichor-slicked hide.

Turn 3

Stubbornly not wanting to spend the game running, hiding and eventually being cut down at range, Skullflux closes the distance and thunders into the smaller warlocks (15” charge all told). All the screamers descend upon the rallied darkshards, as the rest of the blue daemons find range and scoot about. A meager 2-1 (+1 Tizz / +1 DE) winds pulls at the daemon prince’s essence, to no avail (LD passed easily, if shakily). The obligatory blue fire whips up to 2 S6 and drops a warlock from the deathstar, gifting them with 6+ regen to boot. A firestorm follows it up, scattering 4” and managing to tag two warlocks with S6, for no wounds thanks to sexy sex wards of sexiness. The burning chariot then ploomphs out a perfect shot down the warlockstar’s flank, however thanks to a 2” deviation and S2 it only manages a single wound … plus one for warpfire! Holla! The flamers end the assault with 15 shots, which stunningly drop three warlocks plus land a wound on the sorceress thanks to allocation (bringing her back to her starting three wounds ) As the not-fires rage around the Elf command, the screamers tear down two darkshards for a wound in return, break them and catch the remainder, both units of daemons flying off the table in the process. Finally, keyed up by all the mayhem, Skullflux snaps the necks of two warlocks, but tragically has two of his three hearts pierced by the eevil elves and their murderous prowess, and returns to the warp. Sigh.


Spinning their mounts around in the ectoplasm of the dissolving daemon prince, the triumphant warlocks charge into the burning chariot at their back. Also dark riders burrowing into the backfield. A 4-1 winds promises a little respite for the forces of Tizz, and a failed soulblight on the chariot backs that up a bit. A doombolt does make it through into the herald’s horrors, splattering two plus a third thanks to doubles. The dark riders finish off the rank with two more kills. In combat, the warlocks slice a wound off the chariot for a ton of misses in return, however the chariot passes its instability fine.

Turn 4

The screamers race to get back into the game, as the full strength (full derp?) blue fire horrors get up in the hydra's grill. The winds whip back up to 6-4 (+1 Tizz / +1 DE), jacking up daemonic ward saves for the next turn. A single die blue fire into the warlockstar fails to cast - Thank you, Tzeentch! - as does a firestorm, leaving the herald with a handful of dice to hammer the hydra with an IF boosted searing doom. 6 hits cooks 2 wounds off the beast, and the miscast (#5) pops a horror. The flamers can only manage six shots at the warlockstar, but those result in a wound to the sorceress (two to go) and regen 5+ for the unit. In combat, the chariot suffers a third wound but crunches down on a warlock, drawing combat.


Tired of all the attention (and starting to get freaky mutated at this point ), the warlockstar charges the flamers. While they fail the charge, the stand and shoot drops the last RNF warlock, leaving the BSB, master and sorceress in the so-called deathstar. Also they now have 4+ regen The singed hydra barrels into the waiting horrors and the driders swing around the rear of the flamers, as the winds continue to howl across the field with another 6-4 roll. A doombolt into the flamers is dispelled, leaving the sorceress free to failcast soulstealer, though the chariot is successfully soulblighted by somebody. The dark riders patter against the flamers, shortly before the blighted chariot is torn down by some seriously 1337 warlocks. The hydra ends the turn by squishing four horrors, popping a fifth from instability, and regening one of his two missing wounds.

Turn 5

The large flight of screamers attempts to help out the horrors but fails its charge into the hydra’s flank, and the lone screamer chooses instead to overfly the duo of warlocks, dropping one with a healthy dose of barbs. The herald’s horrors march straight for the Elf HQ, with flamers bounding to their flank to bring yet more heat. The winds fall suddenly and sickeningly quiet, a 3-1 roll gimping ward saves and giving just enough dice for the herald’s searing doom into the Elf characters to be dispelled. The flamers’ 13 shots likewise amounts to nothing, though preposterously the hydra takes two wounds from the blue horrors released when he noms four more horrors. The hydra loses combat but passes his break test.


The herald’s horrors are sandwiched between dark rider, warlock and friends, and the remaining warlock tries to hide. Dark Elf fortune continues with a 6-4 (+1 DE) winds roll: doombolt is dispelled, the herald’s horrors are soulblighted, and the hydra’s horrors are hit with word of pain, irresistibly. The miscast (#7) is absorbed without incident, save for a single horror popping. Helped by the reduced daemonic ward saves of his prey, the hydra shreds and stomps nine horrors to paste, leaving only the standard alive. However the tide of blue horrors released is so overwhelming that the hydra is ripped limb from limb in the process! Worth! Meanwhile in the sandwich, the Dark Elf master skewers the Tizz herald, and with the driders' help every single daemon is run through … but this was all part of the plan! The wave of horrors hit the remnants of the deathstar, unfortunately after all the dice settle only the BSB has taken a wound.

Turn 6

With so many points locked up in just two warlock models, the scramble is on for Tizz. The solo screamer overflies the solo warlock, but she successfully absorbs his barbs. The thriple screamers then hit the same elf with triple the spines, however again she is unimpressed! The last horror on the field back peddles wildly, and despite a 5-2 winds giving enough juice to tag that last warlock with blue fire, he isn’t entirely stupid and tosses the dice aside. Finally, the flamers, choosing to sacrifice themselves to the driders in exchange for 4+ to hit against the warlockstar, wash Elf HQ with 13 shots. A single wound gets through on the sorceress, leaving all three models on a single wound each! An awesome warpflame could finish them all! The T3 test is passed once again, bringing their regen to 3+


The dark riders charge into the flank of the flamers, crushing them at long last. In the meantime, both remaining warlocks line up their targets for the magic phase, however 3-1 winds make it dicier yet. The solo warlock three dices doombolt into the solo screamer, hitting it with IF and killing it … and herself in the process! The sorceress tries for power of darkness but fails.

TIZZ LOSS by 493 points, 410 of which was my DP Maybe I really was supposed to just hide him all game? Or perhaps counter-charge the only thing slow enough to catch and likely to stick in combat (i.e. the hydra)? It also occurs to me that the flamers didn’t need to die at the end, as the solo screamer could have blocked the dark riders for them. All the same a surprisingly fun game, despite just how much went against the Tizz crew, not least the brutality of the DE magic phase, made extra galling against the vaunted Tizz one

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:


He’s headed towards a full blown warlockstar at 2500, though frankly it appears to have arrived early

Only read the very beginning so far, but wanted to pause in order to express my whole-hearted hopes that you pull the devastating victory off. Booo 'Lockstar.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Boss Salvage wrote:
Quelling an unwelcome bout of nausea, the daemon prince points damningly at the mounted bastards, takes a deep breath and screams “USE ALL THE MOVEMENT ARROWS!!”[/i]

Awesome!

The winds fall suddenly and sickeningly quiet, a 3-1 roll gimping ward saves and giving just enough dice for the herald’s searing doom into the Elf characters to be dispelled.

Damn. As the unit got bumped smaller and smaller, (and regen bigger and bigger) I was thinking "Searing doom, searing doom, you can do it..."

Preposterously the hydra takes two wounds from the blue horrors released when he noms four more horrors. The hydra loses combat but passes his break test.

Blue horrors! Hah! I feel like I you should start a Blue Horror Hall of Fame and record most impressive wounds/kills.

All the same a surprisingly fun game, despite just how much went against the Tizz crew, not least the brutality of the DE magic phase, made extra galling against the vaunted Tizz one

Made for a great read. Game felt in the balance throughout!

 Red_Zeke wrote:
Blue horrors! Hah! I feel like I you should start a Blue Horror Hall of Fame and record most impressive wounds/kills.

So crazy has my luck been with blue horrors that I've actually been convinced to swap the Greater Locus of Change (herald + his unit's strength = D6) out for the Lesser Locus of Transmogrification (dead horror spawns D3+1 blue horror) on my BSB once I hit 2000 points It's so my style of dice game

Glad you enjoyed the report RZ, it really was a great game to slug out. It's also stunning to look again at how many things didn't work out for me, and be reminded how insane his dice were, from winds rolls to channels to making 18 of 20 4+ saves in a row over the last couple turns

- Salvage

All things considered I think you put on a great show! Bravo against DE with Tizz Daemons.

Only thing I questioned was your DP romping into the Warlocks. I understand you not wanting to let him get gunned down without accomplishing much, but as you admit the 410 pts could have been preserved OR exchanged with a well timed flank charge against something else.

Shame the Screamers failed their charge/ could not drive-by on the Hydra. If you had made it and the screamers were closer to the action things might have played out differently.

Great battle! Thanks!

I think part of what pushed me to do dumb things with the DP was that in my head warlocks are still worth several hundred points per unit, while in reality they only cost 25 a model. So tossing the DP into five of them seemed like a decent enough exchange even if it cost the prince (as it turned out he earned nothing). I was also really hoping for a terror fail and a catch from the chariot, but that close to general + BSB it was admittedly pretty unlikely

I also think I got pretty overzealous with ALL the screamers needing to chase down the darkshards. Those overflies are pretty legit against T3 elves, even with 4+ wards, and having more screamers closer to the battle at hand, rather than off the table, couldn't have hurt ...

But yea, Game 2 of DP was a bit of a fail where he's concerned, I'm fine with admitting. I do think the match up didn't offer him all that much to do though, my derps aside.

- Salvage

For sure the DP was wasted in this game. No thunder stomp really handicaps solo monsters.

His bulk would have just been added to another combat (like vs. the hydra, as you pointed out) or as a last minute flank support (like in that pile up with your horrors vs the d. riders and warlocks near the end). Just 1 wound would have netted you serious points from the death star! So close...

Also a good point about the screamers. One unit could have run them down (the solo screamer perhaps), giving you plenty of support from the other three.

Hindsight and all that... There's always next time

At least this match was a lot closer than at 500 . You really gave him a run for it, and as you point out could've easily been a draw if the DP had lived. Third time's the charm

At long last I ran into my buddy’s Nurgle Warriors, but unfortunately it was at 2000 points, where both his tooled out prince and invincible BSB had come out to play. On the plus side, I get to reroll my to hits in combat

THE LIST

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch - level 1 (TIZZ), greater gift, lesser gift
Herald of Tzeentch - BSB, level 1 (METAL), greater gift, lesser locus
Herald of Tzeentch - level 1 (METAL)
25 Horrors - standard, musician
25 Horrors - standard, musician
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
3 Flamers
Burning Chariot
Burning Chariot
-------
2000

The 2k games will likely be the only times that Skullflux appears with magic levels, and also perhaps the only time both chariots will come out to play. Though no promises on that last one, as they are both painted, and I’m quickly becoming a believer in their grapeshot, as much as I hate their flame templates and their stupid S4/T4 …

GAME EIGHT: WARRIORS OF NURGLE

Daemon Prince of Nurgle - scaly skin, fiery breath, soul feeder, charmed shield, dragonbane gem
Exalted Hero of Nurgle - BSB, nurgle’s rot, dawnstone, dragonhelm, great weapon, barded daemonic mount
Chaos Sorcerer - level 2 (FIRE), dispel scroll, enchanted shield
17 Warriors of Nurgle - full command (standard of discipline), halberds
5 Horsemen of Slaanesh - musician, spears, javelins
5 Horsemen of Slaanesh - musician, spears, javelins
Chariot of Nurgle
6 Knights of Nurgle - full command (banner of swiftness), ensorcelled weapons
Hellcannon

So yes, that’s a tooled out Nurgle DP, but minus the wings and the purple sun - in short, still a complete mofo! His friends are a bunch of mean bastards too.

A note right now on the batrep to follow: I didn’t really want to take notes and just wanted to roll some dice, but as it turned out this was a pretty easy game to report on, and I did promise completeness



Nurgle BSB rides with his knights and the fire sorcerer marches with the warriors, whilst the Tzeentch BSB saunters with the right horrors and the other herald loads up in the left horrors. Both marauder horsemen vanguard only the slightest, so as to not tempt the screamers right from the start.

MAGIC
Chaos Sorcerer: Fireball, Flame Storm

Daemon Prince: Glean Magic || Gifts: Unbreakable Skin (2+ AS), Sword of Swift Slaying
Herald BSB: Searing Doom
Herald: Searing Doom
Horrors 1: Tzeentch’s Firestorm
Horrors 2: Bolt of Change

The concept was to avoid defaulting to blue fire in order to get gateway on somebody, and if not gateway than at least direct damage spells that could be cast once the horrors are grinding in combat. Obviously it didn’t work this time around, with no gateway and the bolt being a magic missile, but maybe it would work anyway? Both heralds also rolled up Golden Hounds, and while I really want to make that spell work, the abysmal range really kills it for me … Except after the game I realized it’s a direct damage, which is kind of a big deal for me with this build. Food for thought!

BATTLE
Turn 1

With a ritual slapping of guts and passing of wind, the Nurgle line gets things moving with a general advance, as the Slaaneshi elements scatter further to the flanks in disgust (but not far enough to be overflown by vorpal skysharks). The first winds roll serves up about 8 dice, seeing a 2D6 fireball at the flamers dispelled and a flame storm into the BSB’s horrors go off Irresistibly. Two gribblies are burned alive(ish), for the cost of two Nurgle warriors in the ensuing backlash. Then the hellcannon roars, sending a screaming wad of soulstuff crashing into Skullflux, only to have the shot deflect off of the daemon prince’s ward save.





Knowing this may be the only chance to cripple or kill the rival prince before he buries himself in close combat, the Tzeentch forces mobilize for maximum damage. First the screamers overfly and return, popping the beast’s charm shield, as flamers and chariots get into position. An average 7 winds roll gives enough dice to fail cast both bolt of change (into the DP) and boosted searing doom (into the knights). The flanking chariot follows this lackluster display with 10 S9 grapeshot into the prince, for two wounds after hits and wards (plus 6+ regen), though the flamers can’t manage any follow up. The second chariot, out of grapeshot range, squirts out a speculative flame shot but it falls short.

Note: I’m still learning what these burning chariots are capable of. After how brutal the first chariot’s grapeshot was, I was very sad I hadn’t pushed his partner up to deliver a second volley, purely because of how little luck I’ve had with them vs. massed rank and file targets in the past. Live and learn. Spoiler: not necessarily living in the case of said chariots

Turn 2

After the pyrotechnics clear, the Nurgle host continues powering forward, with the prince leading with a charge into the waiting screamers (rather stupidly placed to escort him right into delicious t-stomp-able infantry). Magic blew enough for another dispelled 2D6 fireball into the flamers and another IF fire storm into the horrors. Thanks to scatter and ward saves no daemons die, though three more warriors are torn apart thanks to the same miscast result (#7). The hellcannon once again pinholes the Tzeentch DP, however a 1 to wound saves him from a second brown trouser ward save moment. And not to be outdone, some Slaanesh horsemen stick a javelin into the flanking burning chariot. Once combat arrives it is as brutal as expected, with the screamers being smashed and stomped to goo, and the Nurgle prince skipping into combat with the Tzeentch BSB’s block.


The soft Slaaneshi flanks of the enemy receive a sudden and devastating amount of attention this turn, with the left horsemen losing a rider to screamer barbs and the right sweating as a lot of firepower is leveled their way. However the big dumb decision of the turn/game happens when, baited by the enemy general, Skullflux decides to block the Nurgle knights and see if he can’t crack some mortal spines next turn … because after a boosted searing doom there won’t be much left anyway, m’right?? A paltry winds roll of 3 not only threatens to suck the BSB into the warp (he’s cool), it also denies the juice needed to keep Skullflux in the game for much longer. Some horrors try for bolt of change into the chariot instead, but it’s scrolled. After some grumbling about how stupid the magic phase can be, particularly for an army supposedly awesome at magic, the flamers roll insanity and remove the horsemen flat out. And the left chariot hits the knights with 8 S7 and wrecks three of them. Result! Also the Nurgle prince shreds a handful of horrors, though sadly the enormous wave of blue horrors unleashed (seriously, the lesser locus is ridiculous) can’t get through his multiple layers of defense, nor will they ever be able to this game. The horrors are fine - in fact they make their steadfast every round without incident.

Turn 3

The Sound of Inevitability eerily wafts across the field, as the knights slam into the Tzeentch prince and the Nurgle chariot hits the floaty daemon one. Magic is uneventful, and in shooting the hellcannon manages to miss both the unengaged horrors and the horsemen, though not without trying. Combat however is out right traumatic: Skullflux is challenged out by the Nurgle BSB, and despite monstrous stats and ASF the DP can do nothing to one of the most pimptastic builds in the Old World. In return the exalted carves two wounds from the beast, and thanks to an assload of CR the DP is dispatched in one charge, while I am left vowing to return to the lord-less 2500 build I was messing with the day before. Seriously: balls.

Amidst all that disappointment, the Nurgle chariot nearly finishes off the Tzeentch one with the help of CR (for one wound in return, the following diagram is incorrect), and the Nurgle DP sweeps off a rank of horrors - and soul feeds a wound back in the process. Joy.


Alright, deep breaths boys, sweet fiery vengeance can still be had. The screamers sweep over their horsemen friends and skewer two more, whilst flamers and chariot team up on the Nurgle warriors next. The winds finally tick up with 8 (Slaanesh actually arriving to molest the remaining two horsemen, but they stave off his affection with a superb LD roll), but only enough to fuel the embarrassment. Boosted searing doom goes off Irresistibly into the knights (exalted + command), however 2 hits only barbeque the champ and musician. The miscast kills two horrors, wounds the herald and flushes the remaining two dice from the pool. In shooting the flamers lay into the warriors for two casualties (and 6+ regen), shortly before the chariot sticks with what works and grapeshots for a mighty 8 S4. Zero of these shots hit (@ 5+). Combat is painful in a different way, with the Nurgle chariot easily dispatching the burning one before it can strike, and the DP splattering another rank of gribblies - plus soul feeding back to full.

Turn 4

No one can say Papa Nurgle isn’t a sport! Yet tis true, the Tzeentch boys’ chance has come and gone. BSB + knight standard + chariot buddy plow into the waiting horrors, whilst warriors jump on the waiting flamers. A full power volley (18 shots!) greets them on the way in, dropping two and hideously mutating the rest (5+ regen baby). Magic is inconsequential and the heckcannon had moved up instead of indirect firing at the surviving Tizz chariot. In the face punching phase, the warriors only manage to kill two of the three flamers, leaving the last to somehow stick around, and the prince has a similarly floppy phase, killing only a single horror … but being unbreakable there is no lucky instability to be had for Tizz The multi-combat sees more horrors fall though, with enough blue horrors being generated to strip a second wound from the chariot.


Wanting to join his mate back in the warp, the remaining Tizz chariot flanks the warriors, as the screamers pass over the last of the Slaanesh horsemen and fill them full of needles (mmm, needles …) Then, despite having literally no targets for any spells, the winds come up 4 and drop ward saves across the dwindling Tzeentch host. Such reign, much boon In combat, the DP stomps out another rank of horrors, while the burning chariot bounces off the warrior flank and is destroyed, though curiously that last flamer clings to (un)life with a single wound, holding the warriors in place. In the hurly burly, many horrors die, generating many blue horrors, which are unable to end the Nurgle chariot. And then reality blinks and puts them all back

Turn 5

The grind continues, with a brief pause for the hellcannon to scatter off of the screamers. The Nurgle prince reduces his horrors to the BSB and three friends; and those horrors that last turn escaped their fate in the other combat are killed (again). This time the tide of blue horrors successfully dismantles the chariot. Because 3+ armor is not enough. Oh, that last flamer is pulped too.


Moar Tizz charges! The screamers flank the last knight, hoping against hope. Magic is once again catastrophic, the winds rolling up 4 and keeping ward saves down, despite having no spells to cast (firestorm into the warriors wasn’t an option, something must have kept them engaged a round longer). However even with 6+ wards the exalted and standard only manage to kill a single horror and dish out three wounds to the screamers … though they’re so loaded with CR that they still win combat. The screamers hold and reality blinks and puts that single horror back In the other combat, the Nurgle DP is finally able to challenge out the Tizz BSB, who despite surviving the monster’s normal attaks is absolutely splattered by his thunder stomping. The remains of the unit dissipate into vapor.

Turn 6

Covered in the ichor from twenty-five horrors and their herald battle standard bearer (i.e. 660 points after bonuses), the Nurgle prince chugs into the flank of the other gaggle of gribblies. All remaining blue daemons are jellied, save for the last horror standard bearer! A massive tide of blue horrors whirls around the Nurgle knight standard, but his armor refuses to quit, happily containing 50% of his unit’s points. Reality deigns to blink for Tizz a third time and the standard pulls himself in two, returning to the Eye.

TIZZ LOSS, by 1500+ points this time around. A pretty disheartening game for me, where virtually nothing worked and I felt like I spent the whole thing trying to roll 5’s and 6’s (or more often 6’s and 6’s) against walls of armor. I enjoy a good dice fest but this bordered on pure desperation. The biggest bummer was losing my DP for nothing, yet again, even if I was baited into fighting literally one of the best builds in the game. It didn’t help that one of the other best builds was on his prince I do realize that I could have loaded my prince out a little differently to pay proper respect to how impossible 1+ armor is for me (Obsidian Blade > Unbreakable Skin), but frankly the reason I take so much searing doom is to erase these threats before they hit combat. (Shall we note the dragonbane items on my opponent’s characters? He’s well aware of what my double dooms can do to his army!) This works much better when the magic phase doesn’t crap on your army - and rolling 4’s for winds twice in a row, with nothing to cast anyway??? Sweet baby cats, dark gods of the warp!

HAPPIER NEWS

I recently won an auction for eight more OOP Tizz Renegades, at least a few of which will make it into this army sooner than later



(You've yet to see much of my actual army, but the heralds are all ancient CSM models, and I'm thinking about expanding the theme to include unit champs when I've the points to field them ... because GRIMDARK 4EVER)

- Salvage

Tzeentch sadly gets worse & worse the higher the pts as the lack of options starts to add up... I've found that we tend to be forced into going the MSU route and play more like Wood Elves rather than a typical Daemon army.

The Prince honestly isn't worth the trouble. Too squishy and can't even take the full 100pts of lackluster (or rather default + Lesser) Gifts.
A LoC on the other hand only ever needs his base Lv2 and then has a party with the Eternal Beatstick + Lesser roll. He's so far beyond what the Prince brings it actually stops being funny.
At 2k though, I still feel we're better off ignoring our Lords slot altogether, especially in a mono-Tzeentch list and instead concentrating on the Rare section. (Grinder/Burny Chariots/Drones as 'counts as' Changebringers) Or else getting the Lv2 upgrade for the Tzheralds.

Trading your Horrors down to 3x15 strong in place of the two larger units would also really help to give you added flexibility, as well as go a lot further to ensuring they land both Firestorm + Gateway. (Gateway would have honestly wrecked those angry Warriors!)
Dropping the BSB upgrade for a Lv2 on one of those Tzheralds would likely be more beneficial as well. Again, it's all about securing both Gateway + Firestorm on the Horrors. With Gateway especially, you'll be growing Horrors at a rather frightening rate.

Furies would also be a better chaff/chaff remover unit than the Flamers. You can get 2x 5 Furies w/MoT for just 20pts more than the minimum sized Flamer unit! (remove the mark and it's an even-steven trade)

The thing with the chariots is to keep them out on the flanks, supported by chaff removers. 10" flying movement is absolutely insane for a chariot! With a couple other big threats like a LoC and/or Soul Grinder, plus the use of Screamers/Furies to bog down and eliminate enemy chaff/war machines, the rather frail nature of them shouldn't be as much of an issue.
Still, if they're concentrating on your chariots, they're at least ignoring those other things!
Send them in for the impact hits + Screamer attacks to support big stompy things like the Grinder or LoC. Committing them to a combat involving even Horrors, let alone small units of Screamers or Flamers is just throwing it away vs. most targets.



Reign of Comedy definitely kept you down that game though! Not much we can ever do about it, beyond using Kairos for his re-roll or else wasting the Exalted Gift slot for the stupid Tome...

Also, it seems like you're making the enemy roll for Warpflame after each time they suffer one or more wounds from each individual unit, or am I just miss interpreting things here??

Cheers for the thoughts Experiment. From the bottom up:

> Warpflame tests are happening when they ought to, at the end of the phase and only once, I'm just a bit lazy with sequencing in the reports. Sorry for the confusion!

> I'm ok with the Reign most games, but it was just seriously demoralizing this time around. The thing that keeps me from bitching too hard is that I have had it insta-gib things and I do tend to roll more 10's than 4's ... but still

> 10" move on the chariots is actually not overly awesome to me, since without marching that's the equivalent of M5 plus ignoring intervening terrain of moderate size? The flying charge is where I've been totally shocked by how far they can go, the few times I've gone aggro into war machines or something. I've been jonesing hard to go double grinder @ 2500, but I think I'm becoming a believer in grinder + double chariot. Which is nice because my second grinder conversion has been demanding GS for months now, and I'd rather put it off even longer

> Furies, eh. I guess I have a conversion for them (spore mines), I just have a hard time being excited about them. Screamers and flamers can eradicate enemy chaff with ease, though I'm less and less thrilled about using them as chaff themselves, particularly since I'm looking to run them in larger numbers. That said, if you're trying to convince me to drop the flamers, it won't happen. Part of my goal in warhammer is to take Stuff the Internet Hates, and flamers are clearly on that sh*tlist

> I've been back and forth on how to run the horrors at 2500 points. I'll have 60 to pull from, and while I like 2x 30, I'm thinking 2x 25 + 1x 10, simply to have another shot at getting Gateway onto a big block, plus a 6th channel (HEXACHANNEL). In these 10 games have I ever gotten the gate? I can't remember ever having it, which seems utterly preposterous at this point. As to adding levels to the heralds, the plan is to run 2x level 2 metal heralds at 2500, because I do like the lore and am pretty meh on searing doom default at the moment. This was my first game with the BSB reroll, and it was awesome - both of those reality blinks were due to the reroll, and one of them was replacing a 6-6 with a 1-1! Good stuff.

> Finally yes, I do want a chicken, but I think he (and the second grinder) will be the reward for getting through the escalation league and getting 2500 painted. Eternal Lord seems like the way to go, unless I go Budget Lord with just two lesser gifts (all of which are excellent on the big bird). I think DP has potential, I just don't feel like he has many good match-ups at all. Maybe stuff he can t-stomp? But that isn't choppy enough to drop him in a couple rounds? And certainly not knights!

I'm feeling you on being forced into MSU, and we all know how well that works for woodies right now

- Salvage

Thanks for the report Salvage!

Yeah... if ever there was a time to have the obsidian blade on your DP!

Rotten luck throughout the match and it was an up hill battle for you besides.

Tactically speaking, I suppose you COULD have positioned the right screamers outside of the DP charge arch (which you admit was a mistake) which would have given you more fly-bys on the warriors and rear/ flank support in the multi-combat later on.

Similarly, you could have kept the burning chariot on the right out of combat and taken a chance on more grapeshot or even flames into the Nurgle Warriors. I feel like at the time you had just said "what the f*ck... live a little..." and pushed the chariot into the flank of the combat for giggles. I can understand that thought considering how the game was turning out... but a grape shot (or two!) could have reduced the warriors to below half (potentially...)

Last comment would be on the DP, but honestly he had no where to safely go in this battle... IF he had the no armor save sword he could have shaved off some knights later in the game or erased the chariot with a flank charge... if he had lived into later turns, he could have even gone into the Warriors to unleash thunder stomp (if he could endure the rain of str 5 attacks that came his way...) I think you are spot on with "find something to thunder stomp" as the game plan for your prince... or just drop him all together as you and Experiment suggest.

Two lvl 2's and points for the soul grinder sounds like a better route in my opinion as well.

Oh! And I think MSU would probably be better for spell generation, but if you want to keep the "big blocks" for grinding purposes, you just need to have options for supporting charges sticking around... Too bad a stray Beast or two can't make its way into your list

Keep up the good fight!

Pervertdhermit wrote:

Oh! And I think MSU would probably be better for spell generation, but if you want to keep the "big blocks" for grinding purposes, you just need to have options for supporting charges sticking around... Too bad a stray Beast or two can't make its way into your list

Keep up the good fight!

Emphasis mine, as if you're interested in trying some out but still keeping the mono-Tzeentch theme, convert some Firewyrms of Tzeentch! (old unit from the Hordes of Chaos days, basically a Chaos Spawn w/Mark of Tzeentch that could breath fire!)

I converted mine from;
- lower body + head + 'fire shooting' half of arm from an Exalted Flamer
- torso from a Chaos Spawn
- 1 arm from a Flamer of Tzeentch
- 2 Chaos Spawn heads (one being the birdy head naturally!)
- 3 Chaos Spawn arms (2 of the clawed hands - one of which being the feathered arm + whatever 3rd arm you fancy)

it's a bit of work and requires a bunch of gap-filling + a little light sculpting, but overall it only took me about a week or so of fiddling and figuring out how to pull it off. The second one went together much faster and spent more time waiting for the green stuff stages to set/harden than actual building time!


As an added bonus, I then used the leftover Disc from the Chariot kit + a regular Flamer to build a Changebringer. (again, old unit from the 6th ed Storm of Chaos book) They use the rules for Plaguedrones.
If you've saved the leftover tails from the new plastic Screamers, then you can add two more from the Chariot pair, plus the added Blue Horrors for making tokens and a Tzherald on foot.

That Chariot box is literally a $50 bitz box of awesomesauce for Tzeetnch armies!


Having those two 'counts as' units adds a heap of much needed utility IMHO that Tzeentch otherwise lacks. Even just the pair of solo Firewyrms(Beasts) really evens up the chaff game big time, and takes the pressure off of your spellcasters to do pretty much everything. (and leaves the Screamers free to keep up their fly-bys)
The Changebringers(Drones) adds another combat block alongside the Grinder + LoC, giving you 3 solid options for hitting things, plus they make excellent use of the Banner of E.Flame to help stomp regen units.

Anyways, hope this helps!

On the topic of adding 'Counts As' elements to the army, I can pretty much guarantee it'll happen at some point - I mean hell, my Skaven army is 100% CA and includes weird conversions for every unit in the book! For now I'd like to avoid it, particularly Nurgle units due to the whole rivalry thing, and because I dislike running things that everybody expects to see in an army. This totally goes for solo beasts and drone assault units, sadly. Though props for the plague drone = change bringer equation, the current Nurgle unit fits the old Tizz unit pretty well (particularly if you take the shooting option, as weaksauce as it is in game).

I'm actually a lot more likely to add in some Khorne units first. I've got a full strength (4-5) bloodcrusher unit sitting in a box unbuilt, bought before the new DoC book even came out simply on strength of kit. They're also exciting to me because I've virtually never seen them on the table, yet see skullcrushers continuously (for obvious reasons if we're all honest here). I've also messed around with taking Karanak, on his lonesome and with doggy friends, though the downside of flesh hounds is that they're just more S4/T4 on top of what I've got

Before any of this though is probably figuring out some Tizz fiends. 90 pt heralds as my cheapest redirector only goes so far

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:
On the topic of adding 'Counts As' elements to the army, I can pretty much guarantee it'll happen at some point - I mean hell, my Skaven army is 100% CA and includes weird conversions for every unit in the book! For now I'd like to avoid it, particularly Nurgle units due to the whole rivalry thing, and because I dislike running things that everybody expects to see in an army. This totally goes for solo beasts and drone assault units, sadly. Though props for the plague drone = change bringer equation, the current Nurgle unit fits the old Tizz unit pretty well (particularly if you take the shooting option, as weaksauce as it is in game).

I'm honestly chomping at the bit for 9th to come so I can simply use the Firewyrms as proper allied Chaos Spawn w/MoT.
Still, for now they work decently, though I'm hoping to get the other pair converted soon so I can run them as 2x2 units instead of the netlisty 2x solo versions. And you have no idea how stupidly god-awful the shooting option for the Changebringers really is! I mean, they make Flamers look completely OTT by comparison! I'd seriously love to know what Ward was smoking when he thought that Death's Heads could possibly be worth 10pts a pop... BS3 with only a 12" range... Sure they're multiple wounds D3, but still, hitting on 6's with only 4-5 shots for your typical unit means you're lucky to even land a single hit!
I'll still pay for it though, because it does lend itself perfectly to the Tzeentchiness of the unit, but I've yet to actually kill anything relevant with it. (though I've left a few opponents on the floor, in tears of laughter at how many points I've sunk into a near-useless ability, so that has to count as at least a token win?!)

 Boss Salvage wrote:
I'm actually a lot more likely to add in some Khorne units first. I've got a full strength (4-5) bloodcrusher unit sitting in a box unbuilt, bought before the new DoC book even came out simply on strength of kit. They're also exciting to me because I've virtually never seen them on the table, yet see skullcrushers continuously (for obvious reasons if we're all honest here). I've also messed around with taking Karanak, on his lonesome and with doggy friends, though the downside of flesh hounds is that they're just more S4/T4 on top of what I've got

Before any of this though is probably figuring out some Tizz fiends. 90 pt heralds as my cheapest redirector only goes so far

- Salvage

I'd originally thought of using the Dark Eldar Khymerae as the base for a Tzeentch-hound conversion... but then GW went and Finecrapped all over that plan. >.<
I'd intended to add some green stuff to the head/face in order to make it more avian and add some feathers around the collar area, but now I'm stuck looking for a different puppy to act as the foundation.
The Hounds though would be a decent addition, as you can upgrade them to Ambushers ensuring easy rear/flank charges and/or backfield disruption. Plus you only leave them open to a Slaaneshii RoC raping for a single turn before they're in combat. S5 on the charge isn't to sniffed at either - perfect for taking out rear line shooters/war machines and the like, plus you get solid WS instead of the traditional Tzeentch noodle-slapping skills.

As for 'Crushers, obviously we don't see 'em because Drones beat them hands down at absolutely everything, while being cheaper to boot! (poor Khorne, he just can't catch a break!)
Still, 3-4 'Crushers depending on if you add a Herald or not work okay as a flank hitter. Not terribly efficient, but if you can get them some support from say a Grinder/Greater or the like, you should get some results from them.
One benefit from using them alongside a Tzeentch army is access to the two critical buffs they really need, namely Enchanted Blades + Glittering Robe. +1 to-hit means less need for overspending on Hatred locus, and getting that +1 for a 3+ save in total is huge, considering most of the time you want them fighting S3/4 dudes.

The latest report was hilarious . Looks like you were a good sport about it, and I'm very interested to see your lord-less 2500 build that you alluded to, since the Tizz DP hasn't been doing much for you lately.

 RiTides wrote:
The latest report was hilarious . Looks like you were a good sport about it, and I'm very interested to see your lord-less 2500 build that you alluded to, since the Tizz DP hasn't been doing much for you lately.

Spoiler: I think I'm going to complete the escalation league out with the DP in charge, in large part because I love the model and spent a long time painting him ... and also because I still want a second beatstick, even a somewhat derpy one, until I get the second grinder done (to go with the first one that isn't painted yet ) at least. The lordless build is certainly less vulnerable to giving up 400+ points in a single cannonball shot, but it also lacks some of the counter-punch that the DP hypothetically brings. And that in fact is the plan: to play much more passively with the DP, keep him safe and available for counter-charge or combo-charge duties with the various fast elements of the list.

(Coincidentally this is how I was able to get some mileage out of my Skaven's Vermin Lord, another instance of a monster who can kill single targets or stompable things, but at T5 and 5+ ward struggles to stay alive. The upside of the VL is that since he's a level 4 he can do something while he waits for his opening. With no magic levels, the DP ... provides LD 9 over 18"? Really really wish I could at least give him a little shooting attak ala the last book, but I guess no luck beyond rolling up the breath weapon lesser gift. Current DP build is looking like 2x lessers + chaos armor, with the plan to push that 4+ to a 2+ with the help of Glittering Robes )

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:
Both heralds also rolled up Golden Hounds, and while I really want to make that spell work, the abysmal range really kills it for me … Except after the game I realized it’s a direct damage, which is kind of a big deal for me with this build. Food for thought!

Interesting! Do you feel like the heralds live long enough in combat to keep throwing out direct damage?

Note: I’m still learning what these burning chariots are capable of. After how brutal the first chariot’s grapeshot was, I was very sad I hadn’t pushed his partner up to deliver a second volley, purely because of how little luck I’ve had with them vs. massed rank and file targets in the past. Live and learn. Spoiler: not necessarily living in the case of said chariots

I definitely overlooked this on paper, and haven't heard about anyone else exploring the joys of burning chariot grapeshot. Any thoughts why?

...though sadly the enormous wave of blue horrors unleashed (seriously, the lesser locus is ridiculous) can’t get through his multiple layers of defense, nor will they ever be able to this game.

Kind of in the same way that I'm really interested in the slayer deathblow, I am excited to see this eventually do something sweet...


Good report- gotta say, even as rough as the prince has been for you, I agree on the need for a beater in the list, and those are pretty hard to come-by in mono-Tzeentch. Looking forward to more!

 Red_Zeke wrote:
Interesting! Do you feel like the heralds live long enough in combat to keep throwing out direct damage?

Against WoC? Absolutely, thanks to the auto-challenge rule and being able to go stand at the back. Against other things ... probably not, if the enemy wants him dead bad enough. Seeing how level 2 adds another 35 points to each herald, I'm probably more likely to do the old abandon ship maneuver and stand behind the unit anyway, though as for the locus herald I suppose I'll be relying on some super sweet greater gift + smoking wards ftw

I definitely overlooked this on paper, and haven't heard about anyone else exploring the joys of burning chariot grapeshot. Any thoughts why?

Grapeshot is mired in shooting negatives at the moment (-2 for moving + range nearly all the time), meaning the chariot is hitting on 5+ against things that aren't in cover or skirmishers, which is probably a big deterrent for most, when you're tossing 2-10 dice and likely risking the chariot in the process. I think another factor is that if people are taking a burning chariot (or two), then they're also likely taking at least one skillcannon, so the need to paste single targets is less compared to nuking a unit with a flame template.

Good report- gotta say, even as rough as the prince has been for you, I agree on the need for a beater in the list, and those are pretty hard to come-by in mono-Tzeentch. Looking forward to more!

Well, the real answer, as has been pointed out several times, is to take a Lord of Change w/ Eternal Blade ... but as I won't get to mine until the summer I'll just have to make do with Ol' Fluxy

- Salvage

How many more games are in the escalation league?

We have 4 games in each 500pt tier, they were spread so everyone played everyone once, 2000 point only had 3 games due to number of players. After 2000 tier is over then we have 4 games at 2500 based on top battle points over the first 4 tiers. You also get 1 BP per tier for having your army fully painted.

 oneball wrote:
We have 4 games in each 500pt tier, they were spread so everyone played everyone once, 2000 point only had 3 games due to number of players. After 2000 tier is over then we have 4 games at 2500 based on top battle points over the first 4 tiers. You also get 1 BP per tier for having your army fully painted.

What he said

At this point I personally have five to go: 1000 vs HE, 1500 vs DoC & OK, 2000 vs VC & Dwarfs ...

- Salvage

Hey Boss, i'm just dropping in to say that I'm glad you're back to playing some fantasy warhammer with the guys back in Albany. I ended up moving to Taiwan to teach English, so please say hello to all the Shambling Horde folks and the Grimfoe guys as well for me!

I look forward to reading your future reports! Cheers!

You might have to change your location on your profile, overtninja . That sounds exciting!

But darn it, I thought there was a new report here... poke poke

Wow man, I was just thinking about your wood elves and wondering what became of you! Hope Taiwan is treating you well, best of luck over there

Thanks for stopping in to say Hi

- Salvage

I wanted a new report too.....and model pics too Boss, where have the pretties gone?

 Boss Salvage wrote:
Wow man, I was just thinking about your wood elves and wondering what became of you! Hope Taiwan is treating you well, best of luck over there

Thanks for stopping in to say Hi

- Salvage

shamelessly ignoring RiTIdes..... mad skillz!

 Revenent Reiko wrote:
shamelessly ignoring RiTIdes..... mad skillz!

That ninja golem! You guys want reports, I want games ... but they're pretty hard to find right now, despite the escalation league slamming to the end of 2000 points and lots of games left unplayed

I actually just sealed up 1500 points today, will snap some pics next time the lads hit the table - which should be this weekend one way or another!

- Salvage

Excellent! Did you seal them on Saturday, the last day before the cold snap? It's snowing here atm

I actually just sealed up most of my army too, but went with brush-on gloss for some reason, even though it was warm enough outside Saturday to spray...

Looking forward to hearing about your weekend gaming

 Boss Salvage wrote:

 Revenent Reiko wrote:
shamelessly ignoring RiTIdes..... mad skillz!

That ninja golem! You guys want reports, I want games ... but they're pretty hard to find right now, despite the escalation league slamming to the end of 2000 points and lots of games left unplayed

I actually just sealed up 1500 points today, will snap some pics next time the lads hit the table - which should be this weekend one way or another!

- Salvage

Haha no worries Boss, only yanking your chain! TBH its good to see you getting your fantasy on, its been too long...

Seems like an odd situation where the escalation is continuing but noone is getting games in, but thems the kicks i guess, do what you can, i thin kits fair to say there will be more than one person eagerly awaiting the reports

Sweet! Get them pics up, looking forward to it!

Hey man, just found this thread after RiTides mentioned to me that you did not, infact, get sucked into the maelstrom and are actually posting reports!

Good to see you playing and having a good time, and glad to having something entertaining to read while doing school work

(Never taking army shots )

Wehr! Welcome back to the dusty depths of the fantasy batreps section ... and about the only place I appear on Dakka for the nonce Have been lurking the various WM/H threads to see what people are up to in lipped base land - and I've a super secret second Hordes faction about to be moved from the back burner to the front, simply out of recognition that if I want to get games in regularly (90% of them against Khador ), I need to get back into the PP - but otherwise plodding along through a small ocean of blue paint and grabbing games when able. The army should be full strength in merhaps a month's time ... just in time for all my Wrath of Kings stuff to arrive

Hope you're getting at least a little hobby in between school and that growing starspawn of yours!

EDIT: I did play a 2400 point ETC game of Skaven vs Beastmen yesterday. May as well write up a report, though it was largely an exercise in reminding myself why I shelved the nurglings ...

- Salvage

YAY! Salvage back to WMH! Be sure to PM me your blog/batreps when you put them up. Right now I hardly look into the forums, mostly just trolling the RagingHeroes and other year old threads from my subscribed list

Hobby stuff has been mostly making things for other people, though I am working up some silly Cassius and Grayle lists for summer fun after the slog of "Submit paper, wait two months, receive rejection, submit paper, wait two months..." starts. Woo hoo!

What's this secret army? Tell us precious!

Looking forward to the sad skaveny report too, even if I still wonder how you can do that sort of thing to yourself.

What WoK stuff did you go in for? And why aren't I writing this in a PM?

Hi Boss Salvage,

I was wondering if you'd be interested in sharing your battle reports in our community database. You can save your battle details, links and notes, link them to this forum, get them ranked by other members, download your battles whenever you want and compare your performance against other gamers. The purpose of the database is to compare army performance (and also to help me learn how to program). It's all FREE to use, no catches (see my signature link below:- "Battles League Tables" )

You can also link back to your battles in your forum signature so people can easily find all the links on DakkaDakka. eg. wfbattles.com/Battles.aspx?MemberLowered=boss_salvage

There's a load more info in the Dakka thread:- WFBattles - Post your battles, get them rated and yourself ranked

 Boss Salvage wrote:
(Never taking army shots )

EDIT: I did play a 2400 point ETC game of Skaven vs Beastmen yesterday. May as well write up a report, though it was largely an exercise in reminding myself why I shelved the nurglings ...

- Salvage

I'd love to see the report anyway

Oh, and take some army shots

Sigmar - Thanks for the invite, I'll come check the site out and see what I can do before too long!

Tides - Ehhhh, I don't think the batrep is happening. Care for a lame summary?

ETC rules, 2400 skaven vs 2700 beastmen (not a fan of the uneven points thing myself, I don't think that's necessarily an answer to game balance). I ran my Ruin Seer Hellpit Mortarspam stormvermin list, he ran gorstar + bestistar + big ambush gors + surprisingly light chaff for beasts. Rat magic + hideous mortar volleys + hellpit ended the gorstar (and the hellpit), LD suck panicked off the ambushers with the help of some deathfrenzied stormies, but the bestigors made it into the skaven core and mulched literally everything that was worth points in a handful of rounds. Anyone who doesn't think bestigor are serious business are probably the same fools who think brets are a bad army

Anyway, game lasted four turns and vacillated between mildly traumatic for him (LD hell, no shooting phase) to the same for me (no rerolls in combat, S4 cap, etc). We've both played these armies for a very long time, so are well aware of their shortcomings. I'll admit that I also made a mistake and didn't jump my warlord's bus into the gorstar to help the hellpit crack it in one round, instead letting the monster eventually die over many rounds and the bus get charged by the bestigor blender anyway, setting up a chain of overruns.

Meanwhile: the escalation league has been cleared of its non-players and we've got a few weeks to get remaining games in. Sadly this means I have only one 1500 pointer vs ogres coming down the pipe, before a 2500 point ending tournament that I probably won't be in town for. Regardless, stay tuned.

- Salvage

Good to hear that the league jettisoned the non-players, and hopefully you can get in that last game! Bummer about the timing of the ending tourney.

Dakka! So I’ve only been half holding out on you – while a tiny bit of warhams has happened in the last months, I also started working full time at the end of April and moved apartments at the end of May, both of which have brutally sapped my hobby time & energy. Things are finally gelling (I set up my hobby nook early in the move but only now am making time to paint), and our club is having its annual Throwdown in a few weeks, so I suppose I should catch up on the gaming front …

First things first, the briefest of reports on the three game tournament that ended the escalation league documented above. I took no notes and barely remember what happened, but I do have a few BC deployment shots I made shortly after the event.

My current 2500 point list is a version of the one used for this tournament, with the difference being that here I ran the Changeling in place of the third TIZZ herald and the BSB was one of the METAL heralds, as well as maximum flamers (6 + pyro) with 2x 3 screamers in support, instead of 5, 4 & 4 like now. Scroll down for the complete, lord-less list.

GAME NINE: DAEMONS OF NURGLE

Great Unclean One – level 4 (NURGLE), eternal blade, ASF?
Herald of Nurgle – BSB, balesword, palanquin
Herald of Nurgle – level 1 (DEATH), plague flail, breath weapon, palanquin
31 Plague Bearers – full command
31 Plague Bearers – full command
4 Plague Drones – full command
4 Nurglings
Beast of Nurgle
Beast of Nurgle



SO. MUCH. HATRED.

Tizz got the drop on Papa’s crew and started a mass melee on the right flank that eventually ground up the nurglings, the screamers and, with the help of horror magicks here and there, all but one drone. The left beast was filled with screamer needles and blasted with chariot fire, whilst the right was pulverized by the soul grinder – who failed to overrun into the flank of the BSB’s bearers, ultimately taking them, the balesword and an ocean of poison to the face for his troubles.

As for the hearty Nurgle center, the left plague block flipped over the small horrors before teaming up with Fatty, rolling into the Changeling’s horrors and wrecking them – including killing the Changeling (now T5) with the Herald’s palanquin nurglings However such was the ocean of blue horrors unleashed (lesser locus FTW) that the GUO was deeply wounded, to be finished off by the second ocean of blue horrors generated when he waded into the other horrors. Result!

Meanwhile the Nurgle BSB’s block had been wiped out from focused chariot fire, flamer mittens and multiple final transmutations, leaving Nurgs with just the remnants of a plague block and their herald escort, surrounded by a couple gimpy blue chariots, a few screamers, a handful of horrors and a Tizz herald or two. Thanks to half points for units at 25% or less, this game was a DRAW. Which is pretty fitting for a clash of rivals

GAME TEN: BROGRES

Slaughter Master – level 4 (MAW), ward, etc
Bruiser – BSB, ward, etc
Fire Belly – level 1 (FIRE), hellheart, etc
9 Iron Guts – full command (discipline)
9 Ogres – full command
4 Mournfang – standard (dragonhide), musician
6 Maneaters – full command (pennant?), 3x gw, 3x ahw
Sabretusk
Sabretusk
Ironblaster
Ironblaster



Ogres kicked things off … by mostly standing still. The right ironblaster misfired and spun around, while the left tore into the soul grinder. Tizz advanced fast stuff, magic flubbed. Ogres again shuffled forward, with the firebelly joining the ogres to get into hellheart range faster Right ironblaster misfired and spun around, while the left killed the soul grinder. Tizz began applying hot (not-)flaming love to the maneaters, eventually killing the last, hideously mutated one (3+ regen!) in combat some time later thanks to blue horror shenanigans. Ogres again saunter forward, with the exception of the hellheart delivery system, which successfully kills horrors from the left two units in the following turn [sweet baby cats that item can do horrible things against this army!]. The right ironblaster removes the right chariot, the left ironblaster removes the left. Tizz Toys: gone.

Not much to say about the blocky / magical remainder of the game. The ogres on the left got banged up and fled the chariot at some point, eventually leaving the table (I think), possibly panicking a blaster with them. The mournfangs sucked up double searing dooms, leaving the banner bearer to assault some horrors, devour the Changeling (who despite stealing the mournfang’s stats still sucked), and be torn asunder by blue horrors (it took a few turns – a very slow rending, more like a flaying really, with abundant giggles). Which leaves the gutstar (rejoined by the fire belly and at full strength): it wrecked the left horrors (whose herald bailed long ago), took some non-flaming damage, gained some regen stacks and ended the game on full VP strength. Le sigh.

Thinking this one was closer to a MINOR LOSS than a DRAW, but so it is.

GAME ELEVEN: WARRIORS OF SKITTLES

Daemon Prince of Slaanesh – level 4 (SLAANESH), everything you’d expect, wings
Exalted Hero of Tzeentch – BSB, third eye, 3+ ward, daemonic pony
Chaos Sorcerer (Unaffiliated) – level 1 (FIRE), scroll
17 Warriors of Nurgle – full command, halberds, shields, some magic banner
6 Marauder Cav of Slaanesh – full command, spears, javelins
Chariot of Nurgle
5 Warhounds – vanguard
5 Warhounds
Chimera – flaming breath, regen
Gorebeast Chariot of Nurgle
Gorebeast Chariot of Nurgle
Hellcannon



Tizz regained the initiative for the final game of the tournament, and opened up the match by sending the flamers bounding up the eastern flank to play with the pink pony riders. The fungoid daemons barbequed the Slaanesh milksops before clubbing them to death in combat, then wandered south to crisp the right warhounds once they advanced, then back north to try to envelop the warriors and give them some sweat, sweat regeneration. Sadly their dreams were intercepted by the right gorebeast chariot, which stood 18” away from them and absorbed all the S4 shooting they could direct at its T6 self, while threatening them with KB impact death.

Meanwhile on the much heavier western flank … The Slaanesh DP and his pet chimera bounded up to the tower, only to be immediately pounced upon by the waiting blue daemons. The left burning chariot unloaded into the DP for a wound, shortly after the grinder went aggro and charged the chimera, which had cowered to the side of the tower rather than behind it with her master. Sadly the infernal machine failed to decapitate the beast and everyone held, giving both nurgle chariots time to flank the grinder. Impact hits, warrior attaks and sweet monstrous loving ended the daemonic construct, but not before he slammed his daemonbone claw into the gorebeast chariot (6 to hit), dug deep into the beast itself (6 to wound), and rent it asunder (6 for wounds). WORTH.

While this was happening the DP hopped into the Tizz lines, but the impending caco bomb failed to cast, and the DP was surrounded by burning chariots and reduced to atoms. The Nurgle chariots that dropped the grinder met their fates at the hands of searing dooms and bolts of change, panicking the chimera off the table (I think), as the warriors were harassed by screamers and redirected somewhere useless, and the hellcannon was ignored, though it did fail a key rampage test and hurl itself into some other screamers, grinding them to death under its wheels (t-stomp’d!)

Come game end there was little of the mortal host remaining, and it quickly became leaderless in Turn 6 when some horrors scrambled into range of the Exalted Hero of Tzeentch and sent a final bolt of change screaming his way. The bolt slammed home, penetrated his ridiculous 3+ (rerolling 1’s) ward save and capped off all three of his wounds. TIZZ ABIDES.

All that mayhem netted the gribbly daemons a MINOR WIN, putting me relatively nowhere in the tournament standings but about 50% for the day.

More awesome though? I was voted for BEST PAINTED! Which is flattering and a huge boost to keep working on the army.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Fast forward some weeks and I’m in a new apartment, cohabiting with the girlfriend (!), no time for anything. Peeps wanted to play this last weekend and, taking it as a sign that I had just unpacked my Tizz models to get some painting done, I packed up the boys and rolled out to see if I remembered how dice work.

THE LIST

Herald of Tzeentch - level 2 (METAL), greater gift, lesser locus
Herald of Tzeentch - level 2 (METAL), lesser gift, lesser locus
Herald of Tzeentch - level 1 (TIZZ), BSB (lichebone pennant)

25 Horrors - full command
25 Horrors - full command
10 Horrors - standard
5 Flamers
4 Screamers
4 Screamers
Soul Grinder of Tzeentch - warp gaze, daemonbone claw
Burning Chariot
Burning Chariot

GAME X: ORCS & GOBLINS & TROLLS

(Black?) Orc Warboss – armor of destiny, crown of command, dragonhelm, shield
Savage Orc Great Shaman – level 4 (BIG), MR(3), shrunken head
Savage Orc – BSB (discipline)
Savage Orc Shaman – level 1 (BIG), ruby ring, scroll
Goblin Hero – shrieking sword, enchanted shield, dragonbane, wolf

36 Savage Orc Big'Uns - full command
20 Night Goblins - bows, musician, 2 fanatics
20 Night Goblins - bows, musician, 2 fanatics
9 Herders + 1 Squig
10 Trolls
Troll
Troll
Wolf Chariot
Rock Lobber
Rock Lobber
Doom Diver
Doom Diver
Mangler
Mangler


All the orc characters load into the savage orcs, forming the SavageStar, while the Tizz general gribbles with the left horrors, the BSB jazz hands with the small horrors, and the other herald kicks a pebble and hangs out with the other horrors, because no one likes him. But seriously: check out that green castle

MAGIC
Great Shaman: BIG 3,4,5,6 (aka Foot)
Shaman: BIG 2

Herald 1: Transmutation of Lead, Final Transmutation || Gift: Fencer’s Blades
Herald 2: Searing Doom, Golden Hounds || Gift: Wand of Whimsy
Herald BSB: Treason
Horrors 1: Firestorm
Horrors 2: Bolt of Change
Horrors 3: Gateway

BATTLE
Tizz wins the roll with the +1!

Turn 1

With a gesture of a pseudopod, the Tizz general sends the arms of the gribbly horde screaming up the flanks, as the center shambles into magicking range. As if on cue, the Winds ominously drop to begin the match, a 4 weakening daemonic ward saves and ensuring nothing gets through. There is a brief pause as the flamers wave their nubs at the goblin hero, and the orcs take it away.


All tests are passed and the green castle deigns to move, with the exception of the plucky wolf chariot rolling forward (the manglers bump the rear table edge, the right one failing his dangerous terrain and taking a wound). The Great Shaman is gifted with enough dice to IF boosted Foot onto the Gateway horrors + BSB, reducing five daemons to jelly and deviating off the trolls when Gork gets a little over excited. Both orc shamans take wounds in the resulting miscast. After the pyrotechnics the orc artillery opens fire: both rock lobbers scatter off the flanking grinder, and only one doom diver can find its mark on the screamers zipping up the other flank, causing a single wound.

Turn 2

Both sets of Tizz flankers achieve the orc deployment zone, as a burning chariot crests a hill and starts powering up. A heartier Winds roll of 7 returns the daemons to corporeality, but nothing gets past the Great Shaman’s prowess. Shooting is similarly lackluster: the left chariot S4 grapeshots a wound from the wolf chariot, gifting it regen 6+ on the side; the right chariot squirts S1 flaming fire over troll and savages, to no avail; and the flamers roast a wound off of the goblin hero, giving him regen as well.


The green castle begins to react to encroaching threats: the squig herd pounces on the left screamers, the left mangler hurls itself a considerable distance through the grinder (for 2 wounds), night gobs rotate to face the flanking threats, and the trolls form the Thick Blue/Green Line in preparation for sweeping down the table. The Winds again provide enough dice to IF Foot onto the Tizz BSB’s horrors, this time accounting for 2 horrors, 2 savages and 1 more wound on the Great Shaman. Gork wanders off after the first stomp. Greenskin shooting lets rip with two more rocks scattering off of the grinder (one managing to squish 2 squig herders), a doom diver missing the right screamers by miles and the other diver misfiring and skidding into the night goblins for a few casualties. Neither pack of night gobs can hit anything, but the goblins on the wolf chariot show everyone how it’s done and stick an arrow into the burning chariot in front of them.

In the opening combat of the game, the screamers tear the squig herd down to its squig, who breaks and runs rampant – an entire troll is devoured by the lil’ guy, along with a chunk from a screamer.

Turn 3

Taking the squig’splosion as the signal for mayhem, the Tizz boys bring the ruckus, starting with the left screamers beginning their run through the orc artillery (releasing a couple fanatics in the process) and the soul grinder flanking the troll line. The Winds whip up to 11 (capped off thanks to the Tzeentchian hexachannel), seeing an IF Final Trans on the SavageStar. 16+ savage orcs are turned to gold, for 2 vaporized horrors, a wound on the Herald general and a drained power dice pool. The left burning chariot follows this up with S9 grapeshot splintering that plucky wolf chariot, the right misfires and wounds itself, and the flamers put the goblin hero out of his misery – though they spare the giant wolf and wave their stubs in farewell as he scampers off into the hinterlands, to make many giant wolf babies and reap dire revenge upon goblinkind for their years of abuse and neglect.

Oh, the rampaging screamers chew through their rock lobber and overrun into a doom diver, releasing yet more fanatics, one of which they sit on (for 1 wound! Ha!) and the other balances precariously between the divers … for the moment. The grinder meanwhile grabs hold of a troll and bops him for a single wound, but the troll line easily holds on rerolled 10 steadfast.


Catastrophic Turn 3 continues with the left night goblins squabbling with the SavageStar, locking both units down (and ensuring a brief reprieve from Gork’s feet). All the fanatics either kill themselves or other fanatics, the left mangler shows unerring accuracy and bounds back into the grinder (for no effect), and the Orc general embraces the madness and sends the other mangler through the artillery park in hopes of saving them from becoming screamer kibble. Stunningly, the giant squig shatters two machines and cripples the doom diver currently engaged with the screamers, for a few wounds to the daemons. Whoa.

No magic, no shooting that isn’t night goblins @ 7+ into screamers, and the trolls lose by flank but hold.

Turn 4

With the right mangler farther away and now out of control, all the screamers sweep into the night goblins. Because souls. The right chariot floats closer to the solo trolls, apparently daring somebody to end its tortured existence. The Winds continue to billow across the field, gifting Tizz with another 11 (topped off to 12). While the Great Shaman once again resists the pull of chaos, his savages cannot deny the Will of Change, as a second IF Final Trans turns 10+ more to statues. The herald forgets the spell as a result, and the exasperated orc level 4 shuts down the rest of the daemonic magic. In shooting, the flamers begin cooking away at the SavageStar and stacking regen, the right chariot continues the derp and can’t hurt a troll with S4 grapeshot, but the left chariot blasts a couple wounds off of the left mangler – sadly one too few :’(

Combat is swift: the screamers encircle the night goblins in a gyre of teeth and barbs, killing all but the musician, who manages to end a wounded skyshark before breaking, being run down and torn asunder by both packs. The trolls once again lose by flank but hold.


A solo troll breaks the Orc deployment line and charges the waiting daemonic chariot, as loose manglers continue to show unerring accuracy in their bounces – the forward mangler bounds through the other chariot, bringing it to a single wound left. The Savage Great Shaman gets back into the groove and calls Gork back to the field, another IF Foot missing the Gateway horror fragment (the BSB having jumped into the general’s horrors), though the other Foot slams down on the SavageStar for a couple dead orcs. The miscast is absorbed by savage tattoos but the rest of the pool flushes away.

In combat, the solo troll clubs a wound from the chariot, takes a wound in the process, wins by one yet the Tizz daemons hold firm. And the grinder wins by one but the big trolls hold – so few attaks & 4+ regen makes for hard grinding

Turn 5

In a show of good luck, the solo screamer overflies the rear mangler and drops it with barbs, as the larger flight of screamers sweep over the SavageStar and kill a few of their number as well (*the big screamers did not show their rear to the night goblins as pictured, this positioning simply allowed me to get the arrow to swoop over the savages all pretty like!) The LT herald shows what big horror units are good for and has his boys smother the other mangler, at the cost of four horrors. A modest Wind (7+) is enough to draw dice with Gateway, then land Treason on the grinder’s trolls … The flamers flame the SavageStar further, which is so depleted at this point that hits have to be allocated – as it turns out, both the shamans lose their last wounds! Leaving just the Warboss, BSB and savage command, all with 5+ regen.

Then the plan comes to fruition: the grinder again wins by 1, breaks the now LD4 trolls and catches them. The only sad moment is when the solo troll chomps his chariot down to one wound, then pops it on the break test.


That solo troll fails Stupidity and stumbles forward, and the night gobs try to shoot down that solo screamer but can’t get through the swirling shield of devil rays in front of it.

Turn 6

The soul grinder keeps up his rampage and charges the last of the night goblins, who flee and are caught, trampled to goo under his daemonic pistons. Screamers overfly the SavageStar, desperate to get something to stick, but they are woefully low on barbs and can’t find purchase. The Winds die back down to end the game, a 3 threatening the BSB (who is totally fine) and giving precious little to work with. The Tizz general, trying to be fancy, elects to hit the Orc Warboss with Golden Hounds … despite him having a 2+ ward vs fire Amazingly a wound gets through, but everyone is left wondering why the Gateway horrors didn’t finally get a shot at Gating something, especially now that the SavageStar isn’t at MR(3) … But there’s always flamers, m’right? They wash the remnants of the star in not-flame once more, killing the standard and musician, wounding the BSB and leaving the champion standing alongside the gently singed orc general. Warpflame could make it happen! But they pass (@ T5) and bump to 4+ regen.


That solo troll again fails Stupidity and stumbles forward, and the orc high command celebrates being alive. Regardless, that’s a pretty convincing TIZZ VICTORY!

- Salvage

Great to see you reporting again man! And grats on the new living space and mate, as well as the new job!

Wut, wut?! More Coruscating?

 Boss Salvage wrote:
...such was the ocean of blue horrors unleashed (lesser locus FTW) that the GUO was deeply wounded, to be finished off by the second ocean of blue horrors generated when he waded into the other horrors. Result!

Yussss!!!

... torn asunder by blue horrors (it took a few turns – a very slow rending, more like a flaying really, with abundant giggles)...

And again!

More awesome though? I was voted for BEST PAINTED! Which is flattering and a huge boost to keep working on the army.

Super-congrats man! How bout some pics? Glad to hear the motivation is up.

Congrats on the life changes, too- I can relate. Really happy to see Tzeentch win the last game against the Green castle. I have been excessively sad to see the evolution of O&G into a gun & magic-line army. Just feels so wrong. I don't begrudge the players who work to that build, but... bleh.

Awesome about the life changes, and it's great seeing these reports again

And best painted!! I need to see more pics of your creations!

Thanks for the kind words dudes! As for the flat, got everything unpacked and cleaned up this last week, and celebrated by throwing a housewarming party and drowning the place in booze + pierogies ;D

*ahem*

But in warhammer news: not much change, still struggling to find time / motivation to paint. July 19 is the next event, will be bringing the above list straight up. Hope to get a few models slapped with blue before then - BSB, few horror command models left, top of the grinder - but will be about six horrors shy of 'done' all the same. I've been assured it's cool, though my painting score may well suffer for it. Luckily I should have some sick BP to fall back on

So thanks again, and stay tuned.

- Salvage

Dakka! Time for another tournament recap plus so-fresh-it’s-bloody report. I continue to make little time for the hobby and even less for gaming, however a bit has snuck through all the same. Back in July my club The Shambling Horde held our second annual Throwdown at our FLGS in East Greenbush, NY. Lots of people came out and a great time was had by all.

Sadly, I didn’t take pictures nor notes, and the event was so long ago that I can only offer brief summaries for the sake of completeness. Many apologies, tender readers!

First off, here’s a look at what I’ve been working with lately. I took something very similar to the Throwdown, except with gifts + lesser loci in place of the exalted loci on the metal heralds.

THE LIST

Herald of Tzeentch - level 2 (METAL), exalted locus
Herald of Tzeentch - level 2 (METAL), exalted locus
Herald of Tzeentch - level 2 (TIZZ), BSB (lichebone pennant)

30 Horrors - full command (discipline)
25 Horrors - full command
6 Flamers - pyrocaster
4 Screamers
4 Screamers
Soul Grinder of Tzeentch - warp gaze, daemonbone claw
Burning Chariot
Burning Chariot

(Credit goes to the girlfriend for suggesting I drop the 10 horror block and stick with two larger units – she was adamant I bring as much painted to the Throwdown as possible, as soft scores were a large factor, and I was about 5 horrors short with the other list. As it’s turned out, while I miss the bunker horrors, I like having the one larger block … as well as having exactly NINE drops. Because Tzeentch.)

Now for some quick recaps:

THROWDOWN 1: SKAVEN

Grey Seer – level 4 (RUIN & PLAGUE), fencer’s blades, power scroll, skalm, screaming bell
Assassin – weeping blade, potion of strength
Chieftain – BSB, shield, heavy armor
Warlock – level 2 (RUIN), condenser
Warlock – level 1 (RUIN), dispel scroll
Warlock – doomrocket

45 Clanrats – full command, shields, mortar
29 Stormvermin – full command (storm banner)
29 Slaves – musician
5 Giant Rats – packmaster
5 Giant Rats – packmaster
6 Gutter Runners – slings, poison
6 Gutter Runners – slings, poison
Hell Pit Abomination
Doomwheel
Plagueclaw Catapult
Warp Lightning Cannon

While I made some targeting mistakes here and there – like putting anything into the bell unit, which either had MR or was just soaking up Regen from all my Warp Flame attaks – thanks to some decent luck (the storm banner went out after one turn, letting all my sky sharks move faster than 1”, the doomrocket was absorbed by ward saves, his magic was mediocre) I felt the game was fairly in control. I wouldn’t be able to crack the Bellstar, which in my experience running it is the difference between drawing or losing – if the Bell lives, it’s a draw or a victory for the rats, but if it dies it’s a Skaven defeat – however I’d be ok with a draw.

Sadly, gak got bad when the HPA moved much faster than either of us expected, hurtling down the flank and into some horrors a turn ahead of schedule. Blue horrors stripped it down to a single wound, but it jealously guarded that wound as it mulched through my army. I remember it eventually dying … only to resurrect with like 4+ wounds and finish me off late game, because Warp Fire isn’t flaming So ultimately this first round ended up a BRUTAL TIZZ DEFEAT BY HPA.

All credit to my opponent though, who was not only a gentleman but went on to win the whole event. You should go check out his club’s site sometime at The Unplugged Gamers

THROWDOWN 2: HIGH ELVES

Archmage – level 4 (LIFE), book of hoeth, talisman of preservation
Mage – level 2 (HIGH), earthing rod, ironcurse
Noble – BSB, shrieking blade, shield of the merwyrm, luckstone

49 Spearmen – full command
15 Archers – standard, musician
18 Phoenix Guard – full command (banner of the world dragon, tormentor sword)
14 Sword Masters – full command (razor standard, warrior bane)
Frostheart Phoenix
Frostheart Phoenix
Bolt Thrower
Bolt Thrower

Banner of the World Dragon elves backed up by life magic and double frosthearts. Oh balls. With some trepidation I deployed my gribblies, and watched with sinking heart as my opponent placed all of his characters into the Phoenix Guard … But then I commenced to tear the throats out of the rest of his troops. The bolters were rent asunder by screamer packs, while the sword masters and spearmen were buffeted with magic and either run down or groped to death in combat. One frostheart was tempted into engaging a horror block, only to be locked in place and slammed in both flanks by chariots, then broken and caught. The other frostheart was the victim of a long charge from the soul grinder, as the daemonic engine stormed through a forest, grabbed the phoenix by the neck and tore its majestic head from its glittering shoulders. The grinder swept into some seriously startled archers in the elven backfield, eventually finishing them off with the help of a pack of roving screamers.

As thrilling as all of this brutality was, I still needed the 1160 points locked up in the Phoenix Guard, and the chip on my shoulder demanded I try for it. Around the end of Turn 4, the PG were locked up with a horror block, as my more exciting units circled their combat in an orgy of destruction. Now here comes the insanity: I told my opponent that we could probably just sit here and grind until the game ended, since his PG weren’t putting out that much damage and my wards were hot, plus I had a good number of horrors left. So I roll an instability test and lose like one horror. Then I pick up the dice again, as my BSB is nearby, and I look at the elf player and tell him that if I roll these dice again and if I roll box cars, I can pop my own horrors, freeing his PG up for a world of pain. I roll box cars and pop my unit.

Hell descends upon the Phoenix Guard. Screamer barbs, final transmutations and several spectra of eldritch fire pour into the unit, putting the Banner of the World Dragon to the test. It falters, leaving the elven bunker at its characters (the Mage had succumbed to horror ministrations and allocated hits) plus token stalwart Guard. The Archmage is able to frustratingly Regrow the unit back twice, only to have the Tzeentch daemons respond by pouring even more into the beleaguered elves, including the Soul Grinder obliterating the Noble BSB with a withering Warp Gaze once the rank and file had been burned down. The final moments of the round saw every daemon available charge into the shattered remnants of the Phoenix Guard, breaking the few survivors and running them down, the Archmage’s soul devoured and the precious Banner scooped up and ferreted away in the warp for nefarious purposes …

In other words, CRUSHING TIZZ VICTORY and the stuff of legends.

THROWDOWN 3: WARRIORS OF MOSTLY NURGLE

Daemon Prince of Nurgle – scaled skin, soul feeder; charmed shield, dragonbane gem, the other trickster’s shard
Daemon Prince of Nurgle – flight
Exalted Hero of Nurgle – BSB, dragonhelm, dawnstone, ironcurse, great weapon, daemonic mount
Chaos Sorcerer – level 2 (FIRE), ruby ring, dispel scroll

17 Warriors of Nurgle – full command (discipline), halberds
5 Horsemen of Slaanesh – musician, spears, javelins
5 Horsemen of Slaanesh – musician, flails
Chariot of Nurgle
5 Warhounds
6 Knights of Nurgle – standard (swiftness), musician, ensorcelled
6 Trolls
Hellcannon

Final round and I’m up against my clubmate Oneball, pretty much my regular scrumming partner. I don’t remember a ton from this match, though I remember it was pretty frustrating for the warriors from the start, as I began by killing all of his chaff and then erasing the knights with a single Searing Doom, panicking his warriors back despite rerolled LD9s. On the flipside, he got first turn and, as you should when playing warriors, stuffed everything down my throat, giving me limited time to respond to some very real threats. Spoiler: I wasn’t able to stop either prince, allowing them to wade in and start squishing horrors / anything that mattered. After a lot of carnage (and no doubt dodgy dice skills on my part), it all ended up a DRAW, putting me at 50% for the day. Not bad on top of three fun games – plus I made my entry fee back with a random door prize!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Two months pass by, with no Warhams and hobby time devoted to building even more models for a Cryx army I’ve literally never fielded. Having missed the Crossroads GT and in a bid to get interested in finishing up the painting on my Tzeentch army (just the grinder + two horrors + one unit filer to go!), I reach out for a game and come up with …

GAME X: WARRIORS OF CHAOS

Daemon Prince of Nurgle – level 4 (DEATH), flaming breath, scaled skin, soul feeder; sword of striking, charmed shield, dragonbane gem, flight
Exalted Hero of Tzeentch – BSB, dawnstone, enchanted shield
Sorcerer of Tzeentch – level 2 (METAL), dispel scroll

28 Warriors of Tzeentch – full command (swiftness), shields
Chariot of Khorne
5 Knights of Khorne – full command, ensorcelled
Chimera – flaming breath, regeneration
3 Skull Crushers – standard (gleaming), musician
Hellcannon

In his defense, he’s a new player who’s aware that he’s running close to the hardest netlist possible, and is interested in dialing things down as he gains more experience in the game. Mad props to him for having a nearly completely painted army too

My list was the one above, trying out exalted loci in the place of the lesser loci from the tournament (reasoning being that the lesser loci get turned off when the heralds get punked – and they are quite easily punked )


Both mortal Tzeentch characters bunkered down in the Warriors of Tzeentch, while the daemonic Tizz general herald gribbled to himself in the large disciplined (!) horrors and the other two heralds teamed up in the other horrors. (Apologies for the hard to read labels - we played on a new snow mat, which was too cool not to represent in the diagrams.)

MAGIC
Daemon Prince: Soulblight, Doom & Darkness, Fate of Bjuna, Purple Sun
Chaos Sorcerer: Enchanted Blades, Glittering Robes

Herald 1: Searing Doom, Final Transmutation
Herald 2: Searing Doom, Enchanted Blades
Herald 3: Treason, Glean Magic
Horror 1: Bolt of Change
Horror 2: Gateway

BATTLE
Warriors win the roll with the +1!

Turn 1

Seizing the initiative, the mortal warriors bolt forward as soon as the battlelines are formed, hurtling themselves at their daemonic rivals – with the exception of the cranky hellcannon and its dwarf minders. Such is the fervor of the Khorne troops in particular that a skullcrusher cops a tree limb to the neck … The festering daemon prince taps into the winds of magic, but the 4-1 (+2 Tizz) eddy isn’t enough to get Purple Sun past the gibbering wizards. The hellcannon however will not be denied, and claims first ichor by hitting the smaller horror block dead center, splattering six daemons.


Denied much time to respond to the onrushing threats, the Tzeentch daemons scatter and prepare to absorb chargers – screamers screen the dwindling horror block as the BSB herald giggles and slinks behind the unit. An ill-omened 2-2 (+1 Tizz) wind sweeps across the field, giving enough power to hit the skullcrushers with a S6 Bolt for no wounds but not enough to get Gateway out at the prince … yet more importantly dropping daemonic ward saves for the round to come. Only slightly phased, Tzeentch shooting opens up with S8 grapeshot into the skullcrushers (1 wound), S6 into the prince (0 wounds + popped charmed shield), warp gaze into the prince (failed to wound), and a weak display of flamering against the skullcrushers somehow managing to drop the wounded ‘crusher (and give the unit regen 6+).

Not gonna lie, things were looking a bit dire at this point …

Turn 2

The Khorne chariot and skullcrushers both charge the large horror block, though thankfully the chariot falls well short and trundles forward. Meanwhile the chimera swoops into the screening screamers, as the daemon prince hops behind Tzeentchian lines and the rest of the chaos troops close in as a second wave. (Mostly, cranky hellcannon continues to sulk.) The winds pick up to 4-3 (+3 Tizz) for a rather important turn: Bjuna on the non-general herald is dispelled, followed by a successful Purple Sun that rolls 24” through several horrors, the BSB herald, the soul grinder and a burning chariot. Shockingly only 5 horrors perish! The prince is able to cull 2 power dice from the crystalized horrors, which he uses to soulblight the beleaguered smaller horrors. And then the prince washes the unit in fiery breath, roasting 5 more blue daemons. Finally, the hellcannon vomits a shot at the soul grinder, but the grinder is able to stop the round of soul stuff with its weakened 6+ ward

In the first combat of the game, the chimera gently nibbles a screamer to undeath, before t-stomping a couple more into goo and popping the survivor. She takes no wounds for her trouble and carries on into the handful of horrors behind. Nearby the skullcrushers leap into a mess of horrors and account for 9 daemons all told, though the horrors steadfast out and a skullcrusher takes a wound from the ocean of blue horrors unleashed.


The soul grinder springs his trap and counter-charges the chimera, as the Tzeentchian ranged units move into position and the screamers overfly the Khorne chariot for a wound. The winds whip up to 6-4, swinging daemonic wards back to 4+ and providing juice for two big spells: Final Transmutation on the warriors is scrolled, making way for a 7 S6 Gateway to hammer them for 4 dead warriors and 3 summoned horrors. (Also regen 6+.) The flamers unleash into the warriors as well, burning 2 more to death, and bumping their regen up to 5+. One burning chariot melts the Khorne chariot with 10 S5 grapeshot, but sadly 2 S5 from the other blue chariot can’t hurt the daemon prince.

In combat, the grinder grabs ahold of the chimera and tears off all three heads with its daemonbone claw – FATALITY! It reforms to face the oncoming warriors, accepting that the prince could flank it if he wanted to. The other combat is far less exciting: a few horrors die, they scrabble at the crushers ineffectively, then steadfast out.

Turn 3

Realizing that they’re likely safer in the sweet embrace of combat, the exalted rallies his rapidly mutating warriors and charges into the waiting soul grinder, as the daemon prince leaps into the daemonic engine’s flank and joins the fray. The Khorne knights get caught up in the action and try to charge a floating chariot, only to fall far short. An abysmal 1-1 (+2 Tizz) wind somehow gets Enchanted Blades up on the warriors, but there will be no shot from the hellcannon this turn as it flips out and rampages for the ruckus in the center.

Everybody ducks the grinder’s iron claw, after which the daemon prince and all of his underlings fail to dent its warp-hardened hide. The grinder responds by pulping the chaos sorcerer and then trampling 2 warriors beneath its piston-driven legs. The daemon loses but easily maintains corporeality. In the boring combat, a few more horrors are squished however nobody cares.


Bereft of targets, the western wing of the daemonic forces circles back in, while the eastern chariot decides to be risky and bring itself within range of the Khorne knights. A second strong 5-5 (+2 Tizz) wind makes for a magical phase: Treason is let onto the warriors, an irresistible 10 S7 Gate screams into the knights and drags them to an eternity of unrelenting frustration, Enchanted Blades fails to make it onto the grinder, and finally Glean Magic onto the DP is dispelled. A few horrors are killed by the feedback from Gateway, however a few more are summoned into the skullcrusher combat as well.

Combat begins with the soul grinder managing to grab the daemon prince despite its preternatural reflexes. The grinder again weathers a storm of blows then slams its claw into the Nurgle daemon, gouging 3 wounds from the once-mortal monster. 3 warriors are crushed beneath the behemoths' feet as they struggle, which is all too much for the mortal warriors. They break and flee, trampling their standard bearer and shiving the exalted BSB in the process.

Boring combat is boring.

Turn 4

The warriors fail to rally and continue bolting for the table edge, dodging around the lurking screamers. Badly bleeding, the prince calls upon the dark gods … and is given another 1-1 (+1 Tizz) magic phase out of spite. He Soulblights the grinder despite. The hellcannon chortles to see such devastation, then jellies two horrors because can. This time the prince deftly avoids the grinder’s claw, and manages to land a wound on the weakened daemon. The grinder sizes the wounded prince up and decides to go with the daemonbone claw anyway: one shot at a 6+ to hit comes up 6, followed by 5, a failed ward and the one wound required to drop the prince. BOOM.

Skullcrusher combat continues to be a non-event, though a crusher takes a wound this turn! Worth!


Having dodged a Purple Sun, chunked through a chimera, crushed a sorcerer, saw off a lot of warriors and bested a daemon prince, the soul grinder sets his sights on the skullcrushers milling about in a soup of horror ichor. As he thunders into the monstrous cav the rest of the Tzeentch force targets the retreating warriors. A rather placid 6-1 (+1 Tizz) wind sees a 7 S10 Gateway evaporate 6 warriors (plus 2 more from Warp Flame) and Treason go up on the Skullcrushers. Barbs and flames reduces the warriors further, ensuring they will be testing on snake eyes to rally.

Finally, things heat up in the crusher combat. 4 more horrors are killed, though the crusher musician is dragged down by the rest of the gibbering throng and the standard takes 2 wounds from the grinder’s gore-soaked claw. Impaled on the daemonic bone, the last skullcrusher slits his throat in final supplication to his bloodthirsty god.

TIZZ VICTORY BY CONCESSION

- Salvage

Then I pick up the dice again, as my BSB is nearby, and I look at the elf player and tell him that if I roll these dice again and if I roll box cars, I can pop my own horrors, freeing his PG up for a world of pain. I roll box cars and pop my unit.

Have you ever gone back through your battle reports to look for incidents of you doing just this? "Look, if I do X, which is very unlikely, this outcome Y will occur," followed by "I do X," seems to happen a lot in my memory. Maybe the events just seem salient, but for good or ill you seem to be able to roll that number very reliably.

In a related note, have you ever looked in the mirror out of the corner of your eye and thought you caught a glimpse of a tiny bluish imp sitting on you shoulder, quietly whispering secrets of stochastic futures in your ear? Just sayin.

 Wehrkind wrote:
Have you ever gone back through your battle reports to look for incidents of you doing just this? "Look, if I do X, which is very unlikely, this outcome Y will occur," followed by "I do X," seems to happen a lot in my memory. Maybe the events just seem salient, but for good or ill you seem to be able to roll that number very reliably.

Spoiler: There's some dice shenanigans in the rest of the report above

Summoning box cars versus the Phoenix Guard was really something One of my favorite past feats of luck was back in 7E in an Ogres vs Dark Elves game, when my hunter sniped the hag off of a cauldron of blood at max range to keep the DE from contesting an objective at the end of a game. The odds were ... extreme

In a related note, have you ever looked in the mirror out of the corner of your eye and thought you caught a glimpse of a tiny bluish imp sitting on you shoulder, quietly whispering secrets of stochastic futures in your ear? Just sayin.

TIZZ ABIDES

- Salvage

Awesome summaries and report, Salvage! I would very much like to see a pic of the whole force, perhaps when those last couple are painted up, as it sounds like you're oh-so-close to fully painted

I can tell you still have a soft spot for the hellcannon in your reports . As already noted above, predicting and then getting that result in the second match must've been an awesome moment! I've only had that happen a few times, but it's fantastic when it works out against the odds

Oh and, "Boring combat is boring", lol

I love these batreps, what program do you use for your visuals and maneuvering on the board?

Thanks you two

 Gromgor wrote:
what program do you use for your visuals and maneuvering on the board?

They're done in Battle Chronicler - I actually haven't been to their site in a very long time, might have new add ons and such by now ... A word of warning, BC can have a bit of a steep learning curve. If you run into specific problems feel free to PM me and I'll try to help out.

- Salvage

I did briefly try Battle Chronicler- the learning curve is intense!

I notice you deftly sidestepped the request for pics, Salvage

 RiTides wrote:
I notice you deftly sidestepped the request for pics, Salvage

Like a baws

Pics will certainly happen once the grinder is painted - i.e. 2015

(Not really a joke, I'm signed up for the Crossroads GT Spring Break, so will have to have everybody done by then at the latest!)

- Salvage

They're done in Battle Chronicler - I actually haven't been to their site in a very long time, might have new add ons and such by now ... A word of warning, BC can have a bit of a steep learning curve. If you run into specific problems feel free to PM me and I'll try to help out.

- Salvage

Sweet, thank you much! These are some excellent looking batreps!

Boss, how you liking the Soul Grinder? I'm thinking of running my Tizz Daemons at the Carnival of Chaos(Paulscoc.com) in New Orleans next year, but never run one in Fantasy, so not sure how they fit in.

Dig the Highlander style approach to characters at that tournament

On soulgrinding, I wasn't overly impressed at first, as on paper his damage output seems fairly mediocre (WS3 + A4) and in game I would lose him to cannons or massed poison/great weapons without much return. The giant base also took some getting used to, as it kept getting caught on terrain/units while trying to wheel and charge in.

But then once I got spacing down and started to lean hard on the daemonbone claw, combined with mad dice skills, things have really turned around. He can still die and it isn't the end of things - he's expensive and a beatstick but not that expensive nor the only weapon in my arsenal - but when he turns on things get brutal. Of my last few games he seems to have almost carried the match, ripping the heads off enemy beasties, flipping over whole units, and generally being a boss. I try not to rely on his inherent toughness - T7 W6 with 4/5+ save isn't shabby but everything dies when enough dice are thrown at it - but that's a thought too. METAL magic to give him 2+ armor always crosses my mind, but I never seem to have the spell or the power dice for it.

On the topic of SG gun upgrades, they're really just icing on the daemon engine cake, to add a little flare and soak up extra points. I've been taking Warp Gaze because a) nobody takes it, b) I tend to have 55 points left over rather than 50, c) more anti-armor/MC is more better, d) he can't wound himself if he messes up. While I've gotten some sweet return a couple times - usually by sniping BSBs! - my grinder essentially never hits with this thing, or rolls a 1 to wound if he does. In reality, your grinder probably only fires 1-2 times a game, as M8 makes 16" marches more enticing and being stuck in combat makes it hard to shoot. I keep wanting to try Baleful Torrent but meh, I've got burning chariots for template games. I'm about to start running my grinder with just the claw (to downshift from 2500 to 2400), so I suppose I'll find out what a Harvester Cannon does?

Finally, I feel like I haven't endorsed this enough yet: Daemonbone Claw FTW. Apart from my fascination with S10 things (I'm a recovering Fellblade addict), I've found it soooo worth it to just dump my regular attaks and give things the claw instead. Obviously landing the iron claw first helps, but I'll take that 4+ shot to tear up some high armor / many wounds face, particularly in a meta overburdened with armor and/or wounds.

- Salvage

Once again, you seem to have found the perfect piece of wargear for your style one that performs brilliantly occasionally, and fails miserably at others . Love the analysis of it, too.

I also just found out what "highlander" style event means (just one of any unit). I think that might work well applied to characters in fantasy, although the context I saw it mentioned in was for 40k for any unit, which obviously makes themed armies nearly impossible. Still, not a bad idea for some things to encourage more variety (but not to the extreme of hindering themed lists).

Finished painting up some of the "last" of the models for the army: Horror #46, Horror #47 and Unit Filler #2 (1988 IN THE HOUSE!). All I have to do for my 2400/2500 list is the Soul Grinder, who I'm just starting to poke at. From there, I need to do up a display board by March's Crossroads GT, and eventually see if I'm up for the Lord of Change at long last! Oh, and I guess I have 10+ more plastic horrors primed for when I'm feeling bored

In related news, local tournament is happening this Saturday, three rounds of 1800 points, and looking at the player's pack (plus lack of comp), we'll just have to see how well I make out. Here's ...

THE LIST

Herald of Tzeentch - level 2 (METAL), greater gift
Herald of Tzeentch - level 2 (TIZZ), BSB
25 Horrors - full command (gleaming pennant)
25 Horrors - full command
6 Flamers - pyrocaster
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
Soul Grinder of Tzeentch - daemonbone claw

Stay tuned for some reports of some kind!

- Salvage

Solid!

Yuss!! Does this mean I'll get that long-awaited army pic?

 RiTides wrote:
Yuss!! Does this mean I'll get that long-awaited army pic?

I'd still say you've got a month or more before the grinder gets painted, Tides Also planning a segue into a tiny bit of 28mm Inquisitor in December, in preparation for Random Xmas Gaming with my little brother. Which will be fun, and no doubt provide copious distraction from the looming daemon engine

- Salvage

As promised, let’s recap this weekend’s tournament! 3 rounds, 1800 points, battleline scenarios + additional objectives, painting scored by opponent judgment of a single chosen unit, and simple sportsmanship to round out the total.

Twelve players turned out, about a third from my club, a third from a group of new players (40k converts I think?), and a third from out of town. Decent army selection, with a preponderance of Undead Legions …

For reference, here’s my list from above:

Herald of Tzeentch - level 2 (METAL), greater gift
Herald of Tzeentch - level 2 (TIZZ), BSB
25 Horrors - full command (gleaming pennant)
25 Horrors - full command
6 Flamers - pyrocaster
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
Soul Grinder of Tzeentch - daemonbone claw

My General-Herald managed to roll up 1 or 2 on his greater gift every game, which meant he rocked overpriced fencer’s blades all three games, and swung them only in Game Three. My spell selection was equally consistent each match, but in a more positive way – I had gateway + blue fire on my Horror blocks, with pink fire + glean or firestorm on the BSB Herald. Metal general got enchanted blades + transmutation of lead, gleaming robes + final trans, and enchanted blades + final trans. Maybe that’s a spoiler, but I never had a reason to take searing doom o_O

GAME ONE: UNDEAD LEGIONS

Vampire Lord – level 4 (VAMPS), red fury, aura of dark majesty, fear incarnate, talisman of preservation, trickster’s helm, great weapon, heavy armor, shield
Necromancer – level 1 (VAMPS), the cursed book
Cairn Wraith
Cairn Wraith
Necrotect

40 Skeleton Warriors – standard (screaming banner), musician
3 Skeleton Chariots
21 Zombies – musician
3 Vargheists – vargoyle
Terrorgheist
Casket of Souls



Wraths and Vamp Lord fill out the front of the Skeleton bus, pushing the Necrotect to the second rank, whilst the Necromancer hangs out with the Zombies. Tizz BSB in the left Horrors, Tizz general in the right. And yes, my opponent was a little bummed that all his points in LD shenanigans would be for not.

The scenario for this game was to get the most fortitude within 8” of the five objectives (noted with BC icons on the map) starting end of Turn 2, at which point the player who controlled the most objectives that turn scored 1 BP. We played that a unit with fortitude could contest multiple objectives, meaning longer buses could straddle the center and outer objectives, however I failed to move my left Horrors 1” closer to the center into contestation range, meaning that he scored ever turn by having one more fortitude than me on the center. Ah well.

To the carnage. Early Tizz aggression went into the Chariots, but poor winds rolls over the first three turns (6,3,2) meant I really only had the Flamers available to hurt them, eventually cooking them down to 1 Chariot on 1 wound with 4+ regen. This thing would eventually die in combat with Horrors, but not until after being joined by his dead friends over and over. But that was the theme for the early game: Vamps got loads of dice (thanks CoS!), used largely to invoke and curse of years the right Horrors (with gateway), while Tizz was strangled for dice (WTB: CoS?).

While the Chariots were adventuring forward and Horrors were getting old and dying (seriously, curse sucks to dispel in your turn when you have so few dice, and a desire to cast your own stuff), the Blenderbus cautiously strolled up to the center, Zombies camped the woods (and their objective), and the flanks mostly held tight to keep the Screamers occupied and not ravaging the Casket. Eventually the Vargheists helped the solo chariot wreck the Flamers, freeing their Screamers to splash against the Casket, fluff and get rear-charged by said V-gheists come game end. Meanwhile the T-gheist jellied two of his three Screamers, rendering them ineffective for anything but diverting the Blenderbus, and took a break in between bouts of screaming at Screamers to one-shot the Grinder (7 scream-wounds into 6 failed 5+ wards). This was all very unsettling.

Going into the late game I had only the Horror blocks (the one that mattered (GATE!) severely depleted and flank charged by chariots) and their Heralds, for virtually no points gained. Cue 10 dice magic phase! S5 pink fire + S5 blue fire washed over the Blenderbus, dropping twenty Skeletons and growing the Gate-Horrors back to full strength. An IF gateway then slammed into the Terrorgheist, reducing it to a pile of spooky glitter for an even exchange of Horrors after summon + miscast (thanks to timely 4+ ward). The Blendervan made contact with the BSB’s Horrors in the final Undead turn (BSB having hoped out last turn), invoked a few Skeletons, blended a Horror or two, got a Wraith groped off the table, and generally didn’t do too much. In the final Tizz round, another strong magic phase (9) largely just converted Zombies into Horrors, and we ground for another turn, killing the other Wraith but otherwise accomplishing little.

It’s a pity I don’t have time or notes to do a full report, because despite the tame result – VAMP MINOR VICTORY – it was pretty neat to see both of our summoning mechanics in action. It did however make for a long, long game, and we were late to lunch, having played just five turns

GAME TWO: UNDEAD LEGIONS

Tomb King – destroyer of eternities
Liche High Priest – level 4 (NEHEKHARA), obsidian lodestone, dispel scroll
Master Necromancer – level 4 (VAMPS), talisman of preservation, black periapt
Necromancer – level 1 (VAMPS)

38 Skeleton Warriors – full command (screaming banner)
19 Crypt Gouls – ghast
6 Spirit Hosts
Hierotitan



Tomb King and Liche High Priest in the Skeleton horde, Master Necro in the Ghouls. Tizz BSB in the left Horrors, general in the right Horrors (who had gate).

Scenario this time was based around keeping your points in characters (including champions) alive, while killing the other player’s. Character points were calculated thusly: Lords 3, Heroes 2, Champs 1. Soooo having three lords meant he started quite a bit higher than I did …

Player 2 was rather inexperienced – this was like his fourth game of Fantasy – and hampered by the models he owned, but otherwise a nice dude and happy to make a game of it. Also 11 spells but no Casket seemed like madness – he admitted that the Spirit Hosts were being made into a Casket as soon as he could find the model, which apparently is nigh-unavailable thanks to End Times

Anyway, Undead opened the game by shuffling forward and hurling a boosted wind of undeath 40” through both Horror blocks! Both units lost a third of their daemons, to a spell I’d never heard of being cast post-VC update. Once again Tizz was magically punched in the junk to begin (2! then 5), but that didn’t hold back my Grinder, who thundered 16” up to the Hosts. They obliged and charged to their doom, eventually expiring in a couple turns and opening the daemon engine up to take on the Ghoul bunker. In a beautifully orchestrated ballet of barbs and pistons, the Ghouls were charged by Screamers and Grinder in the front and more Screamers in the back (who had overrun after devouring the free-balling Necromancer in the Undead backfield), and dismembered after two rounds – though credit to the Master Necro, who spryly dodged the Grinder’s ministrations and warded off a LOT of toothy and/or pneumatic attention, before crumbling out.

Eventuality reared its ugly head and – after the marauding Grinder charged the Hierotitan, flubbed its daemonbone claw attak one turn, then decapitated the boney giant the next – it was just the Skelestar facing much of my army. Magic had been ramping up for the Tizz boys over the course of the game (10, 6, 8, 12!), however with MR(3) on the deathstar virtually all my magic had gone to final trans them (for little effect in the end) and piddling smaller spells – blue fire on the Hiero, enchanted robes on some Horrors, etc. The Tomb King was fed the blue fire Horrors (from which the Tizz BSB had of course fled), and frankly that should have been the total of his points …

Except Nurgle. Turn 3 Tizz magic had summoned the attention of Papa, who happily visited his contagion upon all unengaged Tzeentch units that weren’t Horror blocks. Flamers and Screamers were fine … however the BSB, who was orbiting the house to provide the Grinder whatever LD support he might need, caught a brutal case of Warp Ebola. Maximum hits (9 S3) saw him melt into a sickly mess of ichor, giving the Undead player 250 points and an automatic +1 BP for ‘killing’ my BSB

Despite this disgusting turn of events, this was still a TIZZ MAJOR VICTORY, plus I earned my single BP of the game (because he didn’t have a BSB for me to feed to a jovial daemonic entity).

GAME THREE: SKAVEN

Grey Seer – level 4 (RUIN), talisman of endurance, dispel scroll
Chieftain – BSB, shield
Warlock Engineer – level 1 (RUIN), doom rocket, condenser

36 Stormvermin – full command (storm banner)
20 Clanrats – full command, shields, plague wind mortar
34 Slaves – musician, shields
34 Slaves – musician, shields
5 Giant Rats – packmaster
5 Giant Rats – packmaster
5 Gutter Runners – slings, poison
5 Gutter Runners – slings, poison
Hellpit Abomination ‘Timmy’
Warp Lightning Cannon
Warp Lightning Cannon



Grey Seer and BSB in the Clanrat bunker, Rocketeer in the left Slaves. Tizz BSB in the left Horrors (with gate), general in the right Horrors.

Final round against my clubmate and his Skaven, who haven’t seen the light of day in a couple years. He was able to cram just about all the usual filth into 1800 points, making both of us a bit queasy. This scenario rewarded BP for having the most wounds within 6” of the center come game end, and allowed bonuses to units with musicians within 12” of the center. With so few bodies and fewer musicians, my plan was to pull him off the hill and see if I could stick him on Horrors while faster and more competent daemons did stuff.

BATTLE

Turn 1

Skaven grab it and go. Roughly 80 rats climb the hill, as the Hellpit stumbles forward a massive 5-6.” A strong magic phase scorches 5-6 Horrors from the blue fire unit, and the Grey Seer fries himself for a wound with backfiring warp lightning. The Gutter Runners send some exploratory warpstone shots into the Grinder in the woods for no return, then the Warp Lightning Cannons unload into the daemon engine: one hits at S6 but can’t reach the 5+ to wound, followed by a S2 from the other machine that likewise can’t dent T7. Finally, the Plaguewind Mortar sends a max range round at the gateway Horrors, splashing the front rank with poison gas and choking one daemon out.


The Tizz Herald waves his shiny paired swords (that he grudgingly paid too much for) and sends the wings of the army forward in reply: the left Screamers rip over the left rat dart that moved too far, killing a couple Giant Rats, and the right Screamers plop in front of their own rats to dare them to charge next turn. The Grinder celebrates life and frolics amongst the trees, as the Flamers get into position to make bad decisions. The winds of magic nearly die out (3), threatening to destabilize the Tizz general but he resists the call of the warp. Gateway fails to cast. The Flamers open fire on the Stormvermin horde, dropping a few and gifting them regen 6+. Finally, the Grinder lets rip with his harvester cannon at the Gutters … but six shots can’t push through the 7+ to hit.

Turn 2

The right Giant Rats lead off a turn of skittering by charging their Screamers, followed by the HPA ferociously shambling another 5-6”, Gutters redirecting the Grinder, left Rats moving to intercept, Engineer getting into position and blocks prepping for charge. The Grey Seer scorches another 5-6 Horrors, this time from the gateway unit, shortly before the Engineer shocks himself for a wound with backfiring warp lightning. And then the doooooomrocket poops out and detonates well before the gateway Horrors. The fluff continues as one WLC fizzles out on the way into the Grinder, and the other WLC explodes in a green mushroom cloud. A turn of fail concludes as the Giant Rats do nothing to their Screamers, lose 5 of 6 and flee, to be caught in the process of pulling the sky sharks into easy charge of the surviving cannon.


The Screamers whip into the WLC, as the Grinder grudgingly charges into the Gutters (who pass terror like bosses). Other Screamers begin closing on the Skaven bunker, dropping a few barbs into a couple Slaves in the process, while the Horrors all back up, and the Tizz general bails in the face of a wall of halberds. The winds blow average (7 for the only time all tournament), giving enough juice for the Tizz BSB to glean warp lightning from the Skaven Engineer and kill him with the S3 hit (then process his furry soul into a new Horror), before gateway is scrolled. The Flamers wave their nubs at the Stormvermin and a few vaporize … and their buddies hulk out and reach regen 5+. In combat, the Grinder manages a single dead Gutter, but sends them running with the charge, then reforms to face the Skaven army. Oh, and Screamers devour the WLC but don’t make the ambitious overrun into the Mortar.

Turn 3

All the carnage! Slaves flank the Grinder, Stormies charge the blue fire Horrors, and the HPA lurches into some Screamers. The fleeing Gutters keep booking it, while the second unit slinks on behind the free-balling Tizz general, Skaven HQ keeps its LD bubbles in position, free Slaves continue chasing the Flamers, and the Mortar backs up for a parting shot at the Screamers. The Grey Seer death frenzies the Slaves facing the Grinder, and the Mortar woefully scatters off the Screamers threatening its dissolution. The super secret stealth assassin team Gutters can’t hurt the Tizz general, the single poison hit being LOS! into the gateway Horrors and warded.

In combat, the HPA feeds on a Screamer … and then stomps the remaining two into goo, because warbeast monster-killers are awkward. The crazy Slaves scrabble a wound onto the Grinder, before losing two handfuls and their frenzy, but steadfasting easily. And a token 5+ regen Stormvermin dies, for a heavy toll in Horrors.


Ladies and Gentlemen, we have entered the grind! The surviving Screamers rip over the Mortar, filling it with needles, as Flamers continue to frustrate the incoming Slaves and the Tizz general bunkers into the gate Horrors. The winds continue gaining in strength (9), bringing a massive brass skull with them that deviates off of the HPA and plows into the Skaven bunker, crushing a few Clanrats. An IF gateway follows it in, melting 9-10 Clanrats and summoning 8 Horrors into the beleaguered blue fire Horrors … at the cost of 8 gateway Horrors! Warp Fire claims another Clanrat. The Flamers’ hot loving can’t touch the infiltrated Gutters, and it’s onto combat.

The Grinder takes another wound from its Slaves, before stomping all over the unit, forcing them to steadfast out once more. The Stormvermin again take a token loss, after butchering the summoned Horrors and more. A single rank is left after instability.

Turn 4

Moar carnage! The most ballsy packmaster ever leads his Giant Rats into the rear of the Soul Grinder, the Slaves hunting the Flamers fail a long charge on their target, and the ambushing Gutters rear charge the gate Horrors. The other Gutters rally and face the rampaging Screamers, and the HPA scuttles away from the Grinder about to break free of its furry restraints. The Grey Seer is able to ground the Screamers and frustrate the Flamers with a warp gale, before it’s back to the fighting.

The Slaves don’t get lucky a third time against the Grinder, take another beating and pop, damaging nothing - frustratingly the Giant Rats hold, locking the Grinder down for another turn! The Stormies go next, easily trashing the Horrors and reforming to face the Tizz HQ, however it looks like the Gutters have it handled. Somehow the ninja rats stab, hack and CR out all of the remaining gateway Horrors?! Blue horrors rip apart two of the Gutters in return, but all that’s left of the daemons in that combat are the two Heralds.


Despite being M1, the Screamers flop into the Gutters, losing a daemon to shooting on the way in. Hurricane winds rip across the battlefield (12), summoning 8-9 Horrors with LOS to Skaven HQ, who then roll for their spell … and get GATEWAY It goes off on the Skaven bunker, but S3 just fries a few Clanrats and gives the survivors regen 6+. The Flamers unleash on the Stormies once more, successfully giving them regen 4+ thanks to a single dead rat

In combat, the Screamers devour their Gutter Runners, before the Grinder spitefully obliterates its Giant Rats. Tizz HQ fends off their ratty assassins, then the BSB preposterously drops two of the Gutters, breaking the survivor. The Heralds pursue, catching the Gutter and escaping the LOS of the Stormvermin. Yessssssss.

Turn 5

With the end of the game looming, the Skaven retract back to their stranglehold on the hill. HPA heads for the new gate Horrors, and blocks swift reform for the center. The Grey Seer keeps the warp gale going.


The Grinder books it for the center, looking to rip into Skaven HQ next turn or see if it can’t tempt the Hellpit for a monstrous showdown at long last. The Tizz heralds join or hover around the Flamers, and the Screamers flop around. Tzeentch himself visits the field this turn (winds 5), drifting a sheet of flame onto the regenerating Hellpit! S4 isn’t enough to wound T5 however, meaning that the IF gateway to follow goes into the Skaven bunker instead of the beast. Another weak S3 gate leaves the unit at two characters with one wound each and a Clanrat standard, all with 5+ regens or wards. No Horrors are summoned and the unit erupts with feedback, just three daemons left afterwards. Hampered by the warp gale, the Flamers can’t manage to finish the bunker.

Turn 6

The Stormvermin, ever the professionals, charge into the Grinder’s waiting flank. Slaves reclaim the hill, after the HPA falls 1” short of silencing the Horrors and their (potential) super weapon. The Grey Seer deigns to cast due to fear of miscasts, and it’s on to combat. The Stormies can’t scratch the Grinder, however the machine can only drop a single rat due to 4+ regen (THANKS TZEENTCH). A brutal instability check, followed by the same roll on the reroll, leaves the Grinder on a single wound.


Last gasp for the daemons! Everybody gets in position for Operation: Skaven HQ Dies Screaming. A withering wind ends the tournament (4), dropping daemonic ward saves but providing enough juice to get a final gateway onto the Skaven ‘bunker’! S3 again just isn’t enough, although the Clanrat standard succumbs, giving up the unit’s points - and summoning another Horror The Flamers can’t stick a wound onto the Skaven HQ, and there’s just one more combat to go: the Stormvermin stab into the Grinder and one halberd finds a soft spot. It slips through the Grinder’s armor, and then the Grinder’s ward comes up a 5! Except his ward was just reduced to 6+! CHAOS!

And with that roll, the rats pull off a SKAVEN VICTORY with a lot of objective points. So many lucky breaks the blue daemons couldn’t quite capitalize on - and triple S3 gates to decapitate the Skavenses? WTF?

---------

So in the end, I scored pretty poorly at the tournament, having gotten the least objective points of any one (1 out of 15), which I guess buried me in the standings when combined with a mediocre win/loss. All the same, always nice to get some games in. 1800 was an ok level, though I don't think it blunted filth as much as people thought it would. For the curious, the overall winner was Empire with cav core, cannons, Light magic, etc. Possibly Karl Franz too. For great justice.

- Salvage

NOOOO! Dont make us wait.

Argh! Cliffhanger

IT IS DONE

- Salvage

Wow, impressively long battle! Fun read, though man... those dice. I hope you had a good time, but I suspect that "more random" translated into "less fun" this time around :(

I appreciate the randomness, and it's why I play the army - and why I came back to Yahtzeehammer after my time spent WarmaHording. Unfortunately "more random" does tend to translate into "less victory" ... which is fine, because I don't play Warhams to win, but definitely a bit of a bummer when the only games you play anymore are in ranked events with entry fees

Somewhat related, plans are in motion for The Next Army, which will continue in the vein of not being particularly competitive, but otherwise should have little in common with these blue gribbly daemons

- Salvage

The last match was awesome! Lots of randomness on both sides, reminds me of when you were running skaven . Close(ish) to the end too with the skaven HQ so exposed and the grinder almost hanging tough. Excellent writeup, and I agree, the warhams suits you

It's probably my long history of playing Dwarves, but I'm used to seeing the HPA either go down in flames (literally) or win the game single handedly. This one seemed to do neither, which made things all the more interesting. Great report, great read, thanks.

Also, Tzeentch magic is weird.

Happy 2015! The new year has brought quite a bit of desire for tournament prep to the club, with TempleCon looming next in early February. Though I won't be attending (until they change the date from my birthday weekend), I was happy to add 100 points to my Crossroads list and have a go of it.

THE LISTS

Herald of Tzeentch – level 2 (METAL)
Herald of Tzeentch – level 2 (METAL)
Herald of Tzeentch – level 2 (TIZZ), BSB, exalted locus
Exalted Flamer
30 Horrors – standard (lichebone), musician
25 Horrors – standard, musician
6 Flamers
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
Soul Grinder of Tzeentch – baleful torrent, daemonbone claw
Soul Grinder of Tzeentch – daemonbone claw

The biggest standout here is giving double grinders a shot, in the name of resiliency + combat power at the cost of the two burning chariots’ guns. This is also the return of min/max screamers – I haven’t run nine since I first started the army – and my first time proxying an exalted flamer. So quite a number of firsts for the new year!

Sorcerer Lord of Tzeentch – level 3 (METAL), chaos familiar, third eye; talisman of endurance, enchanted shield, disc
Chaos Lord of Nurgle – soul feeder; sword of anti-heroes, talisman of preservation, dragonhelm, TOTS, barded steed
Exalted Hero of Nurgle – BSB, sword of might, dawnstone, charmed shield, barded daemonic mount
Sorcerer – level 1 (FIRE), burning body; potion of speed
18 Warriors of Nurgle – full command (swiftness), halberds
Chariot of Nurgle
5 Horsemen of Slaanesh – musician, flails
5 Warhounds
7 Trolls
6 Knights of Nurgle – standard (lichebone), musician, ensorcelled
Hellcannon

My clubmate and perennial sparring partner has been getting his Warriors of Mostly Nurgle ready for a couple Swedish events, so racked up the above 13 or so list and wanted to have a go. Still plenty of fight in there! But thankfully no TFG DP nonsense to deal with! (For reference my DoT list here scores like 14.5, so not far off.)


Nurgle BSB babysits the trolls, fire sorcerer hangs out with the warriors, and Nurgle lord rides with the knights. Meanwhile the Tizz BSB + general gribble up with the big horrors, and the other herald jazz hands with the smaller horrors, with the exalted flamer awkwardly tacked onto the side. Then the Slaanesh horsemen vanguard!

MAGIC
Herald: Searing Doom, Glittering Robes
Herald: Searing Doom, Final Transmutation
Herald: Bolt of Change, Tzeentch’s Firestorm
Horrors: Glean Magic (!)
Horrors: Pink Fire

Sorcerer Lord: Glittering Robes, Gehenna’s Golden Hounds, Transmutation of Lead, Final Transmutation
Sorcerer: Fireball

Overall, not great spells for either of us, but my horror blocks got pretty hosed. Not only no gateway, but no treason and no blue fire(s) to back it up. Direct damage on Pink + Firestorm is a glimmer of hope … although frankly versus WoC I already know I’ll be leaning on my Metal mages to melt through all that armor.

BATTLE
Nurgle wins the roll with the +1!

Turn 1

The Nurgle lord waves his glowing stick of hero bashing, sending his throng hurtling towards the blue daemons and their looming war engines. The trolls pass Stupidity (and will every turn), and everybody that isn’t a hellcannon rips forward more or less full speed. The Winds of Magic begin blowing with a strong 6-4 (+1 WoN | +2 DoT), which sees golden hounds pounce on a soul grinder for no wounds, a 2D6 fireball burn down 1.5 screamers from the central unit, and final transmutation dispelled with authority. Then the hellcannon targets a soul grinder, misfires and removes itself from the game


After a brief interlude of interpretive coruscation, the Tzeentch general gestures with a pseudopod and sends the left screamers charging into the upstart sorcerer lord and his black market disc. The other two screamer packs fly in to divert the knights and threaten the chariot, as grinders form a menacing flank, horrors shuffle about and flamers point their mittens at the woefully overexposed (but perhaps that was the point!) horsemen. The Winds blow 6-2 (+2 WoN) – Slaanesh is summoned but deigns to intervene – giving enough juice to have an unboosted searing doom dispelled and the following boosted searing doom fail to cast. Then a grinder misfires his harvester cannon, taking a wound Unperturbed, the exalted flamer pummels three horsemen with S4 blue fire (min strength!), and despite needing 7/8+ to hit, the pack of regular flamers unhorses the last two with an extreme number of shots.

In the thrilling first turn combat, the screamers can’t get through the sorcerer’s 1/4+ (rerolling wards of 1) save, lose a couple but hold like tiny skydevil bosses.

Turn 2

Perhaps goaded on by the wall of trolls behind them, the warhounds hurl themselves into the horror bus, hoping to assassinate some daemonic heroes if they can get lucky. The Nurgle lord leads his knights in a hearty trampling of the waiting screamers, whilst sundry other chaos units power onwards. A boisterous 6-5 (+2 DoT) Winds comes to naught when a 2D6 fireball is dispelled shortly before the sorcerer lord fails to cast transmutation of lead.

Combat is slightly more thrilling: the warhounds succeed in wounding the Tizz general once, lose three of their number and are sent packing; the chaos lord and friends liquefy their screamers; and the sorcerer lord baps one of his own screamers for a wound but remains otherwise locked up.


‘Operation: Apply 590 Points in Grinders, Profit?’ goes into effect as both soul grinders thunder into the trollstar. Other than this act of bravado, the Tizz battleline prepares to do something about the S5 wall of chaos armor heading its way … and feed the smaller horrors to it if that plan fails. Rightmost screamers also overfly their chariot, sprinkling it with barbs to the tune of two wounds. A well-timed 5-5 (+1 DoT | +1 WoN) Winds whips through the field, boosting ward saves right when needed, along with giving abundant power dice. Bubble robes goes through, bringing both grinders up to 2/4+ saves (!), however both searing dooms into the knights are once more dispelled, and the wishful glean into the fire sorcerer is scrolled. In shooting, the exalted flamer cooks 8 S9 shots into the warriors … yet abysmal hit rolls mean only two fall. The flamers follow this up with a woeful number of shots, which at 7+ to hit can’t manage anything. The warriors do gain 6+ regen though!

Combat time. We do the boring combat first: the sorcerer lord finishes off a screamer, but they don’t care and hold him in place another turn. In the main event, the Nurgle BSB dodges both iron claws, then escapes both of the daemonbone claws that follow them up (the grinders needed 6+ to hit, thanks to garbage WS + MoN, but with Hatred I figured four shots would yield one S10 hit … sadly, twas not to be). Though the BSB can’t make it through the machines’ heavy wards, his trolls do manage to puke a wound off of the wounded grinder. Both daemon engines lose but hold easily.

Turn 3

“Gentlemen,” the Nurgle lord addresses his coterie, as he carefully doffs his shaggoth-skin bowler and places it into its blood-quenched iron hat box for safe keeping, “let us commence the grind.”

Both the Nurgle warriors and knights smash into the waiting horrors, as warhounds rally and chariot trundles in. A moderate 3-3 (+2 DoT) Winds gives all the dice the sorcerer lord needs to IF final transmutation onto the large horror block: the Tizz BSB is turned to gold, along with 13+ of his closest frenemies! The miscast that follows is a 4, although neither screamer nor sorcerer is wounded in the blast, and the caster is able to resist the pull of the warp.

The warm liquid goo phase that follows is remarkably tame. While the sorcerer lord (technically just his traitorous disc!) is able to free himself from the last screamer, the grinder/troll combat stalemates (both grinders again swung for the BSB using their insta-gib claws and missed), and the horror beatdown smashfest defies expectations. A mere two horrors are killed thanks to some superb 4+ ward shenanigans, for the loss of the fire sorcerer and a Nurgle warrior! The horrors still lose to CR – that charging-off-the-hill bonus! – but don’t care.


Despite the lockdown of last turn, the Tizz general has the distinct impression that things aren’t really working out, and initiates further emergency measures – bailing out of units, etc. The last screamer pack swoops over their chariot again, causing a further wound, as flamers aim to end it shortly. A powerful 6-5 Winds pulls at the sorcerer lord (he contemptuously resists), then is put to mediocre ends by the daemonic wizards: a cheeky Pink fire aimed at the warhounds (but suspiciously threatening a lot of engaged chaos dudes) is dispelled, followed by an irresistible boosted searing doom from the Tizz general into the sorcerer lord. It causes a lamentable 4 hits and a single wound, for the herald losing all his magic levels. Then the flamers find it in themselves to burn down the chariot.

Combat is entered once more, and the resolve of the daemons begins to falter. The grinders grudgingly switch to pummeling the trolls with S6 hits (for two wounds), and the wounded grinder takes three wounds (!) to vomit in return. Somehow both grinders hold without a BSB reroll. The smashfest then gets smashy, with many horrors dying, a few warriors being dragged down by a wave of blue horrors, and the remaining daemons steadfasting.

Turn 4

With nearly everything else happily locked in combat, the sorcerer lord swoops towards the Tizz HQ to do stuff. A wisp of a 2-2 (+1 WoN | +1 DoT) Winds is enough to IF final transmutation once more onto the ‘big’ horror block, though this time it only engoldens a few horrors. The sorcerer lord loses a level and forgets the spell in exchange.

Brutality continues in the combat phase. The grinders go for one more round of 6+ claw swipes at the BSB, before the wounded machine is melted by vomit. His fellow holds tight. Meanwhile, the engaged horror block loses a handful of daemons, accomplishes nothing and, rather key at this point, refuses to pop.


Despite knowing that the horrors being ground down are going to almost assuredly be finished this turn, letting the Nurgle kill units spin around and charge in their turn … the Tizz general still commands his skirmish troops to sit in easy charge range, rather than GTFO Otherwise, Tizz heroes swarm around the sorcerer lord. For vengeance. A noisome 4-2 Winds wafts across the field, bringing the attention of Papa Nurgle at long last: he visits light sniffles upon the non-general Tizz herald (0 wounds), along with a terminal case of mange for the warhounds. The rapidly dwindling engaged horror ‘block’ tries for another cheeky (and possibly illegal?) pink fire, which is dispelled, then the Tizz not-general hits the sorcerer lord with a D6 searing doom for another wound. The S7 blue fire from the exalted flamer that follows can’t end the mortal wizard.

Combat is extremely final: the grinder fails one last time to crush the Nurgle BSB, takes a couple puke wounds and dissolves with the break test; and the horrors die. All Nurgle units spin to face fresh targets.

Turn 5

Trollstar jumps on the remnants of the horror bus, Nurgle warriors grab the screamers, Nurgle knights wheel into the flamers (who are too close to stand and shoot, of course). The 4-2 (+1 WoN) Winds remain steady, this time seeing glittering robes on the warriors dispelled, and transmutation of lead on the screamers go irresistible! The sorcerer lord cascades once more, but this time can’t resist the pull of the Warp – he is dragged screaming to begin millennia of torment as Tzeentch’s play thing. And/or become a daemon prince. They’re sort of similar, given how DP of Tizz fair on the table

Anyway, the horrors are reduced to jelly by the troll jamboree (though they finish off that wounded troll!) and the brutes follow into the bemused not-general herald; the screamers are hooked from the air by warriors and gutted before swinging; and the flamers are pummeled and popped by the knights – though not before taking down a knight! Hurr! Everybody overruns.


Last gasps for Tizz. The Tzeentch general and exalted flamer scatter, as the not-general glibly faces yet another disincorporealization. A 5-3 Winds calls Slaanesh back to the field (s/he still isn’t interested in the smellies), giving enough juice for an IF final transmutation into the Nurgle warriors. A few die … and S6 feedback pops the head of the Tizz general. Doh.

The Nurgle BSB challenges the Tizz herald, then decapitates it before it can register what’s happening. Such is the BSB’s disdain that he doesn’t roll on the Eye. (We forgot ) The trollstar turns on the spot to face the exalted flamer.

Turn 6

As the warriors fail Stupidity and stumble forward, fighting over the golden corpses of their brethren, the Nurgle BSB hurls himself out of his unit at the last Tizz model on the field. He flubs it and just manages to get his base clear of his trolls (2” )


A slow clap begins to echo across the field: this is the exalted flamer’s moment! He dashes forward and charges up his fire shooting appendages … pauses for a third 5-3 Wind that goes straight to Slaanesh’s answering machine … then levels the Nurgle BSB with S9 blue fire. Toasty!

Despite ending with a bang, we didn’t need to do any math to know this was a NURGLE VICTORY. While the exalted flamer had been a fairly rousing success (mostly because he only costs 90 points), the grinder gambit had failed in the face of the Mark of Nurgle and/or not fighting single targets or infantry, Lore of Tizz spell selection meant horror summoning wasn’t really a possibility, and my attempt to avoid six dicing the Metal mega-spells resulted in all my anti-armor hard counters amounting to nothing. Though the game was still fun and mayhem ensued, I feel like this match was less my usual ‘OMF dice madness!’ and more an example of how toothless and derpy my army can be in the face of an army that’s just better at what it does, while being totally balanced at the same time.

Final props to that hellcannon though

- Salvage

Hello again, gentle readers. I finally played some warhams, but (spoiler) I fear this is mostly a tale of woe. Let us carry on with the heavy task of recounting …

THE LISTS

Herald of Tzeentch – level 2 (METAL)
Herald of Tzeentch – level 2 (METAL)
Herald of Tzeentch – level 2 (TIZZ), BSB, exalted locus

30 Horrors – standard, musician
25 Horrors – standard, musician
6 Flamers
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
Soul Grinder of Tzeentch – daemonbone claw, warp gaze
Soul Grinder of Tzeentch – daemonbone claw

Dialing back down to 2400 in preparation for Crossroads in March. While I have the exalted flamer bought, built and based, I really hate that 40mm base, and having yet another little solo running around waiting for his moment to roll some dice (whilst trying to stay alive until then) isn’t all that exciting for me. Warp gaze isn’t so different - one or two shots a game, maybe something happens, probably not, meh. But it’s on a T7 uber-monster, and I don’t have to paint it separately

General - rune fang, charmed shield, luckstone, barded mount (etc)
Wizard Lord - level 4 (HEAVENS), talisman of preservation, dispel scroll, pony
BSB - dawnstone, TOTS, great weapon, barded mount (etc)
Wizard - level 1 (FIRE), scroll of shielding, pony
Warrior Priest - great weapon, barded mount (etc)

12 Knights of the Inner Circle - full command (discipline)
7+ Knights - standard?, musician
5 Knights - musician
4 Demigryphs - standard, musician
4 Demigryphs - standard, musician
5 Outriders - musician
Cannon
Cannon

Something like that – I know somebody in the knight bus had the Pelt of the Skaven Slayer (or something), so caused fear. I didn’t jot down any notes … about anything actually, so this will be a little rough in spots. Apologies. It should also be noted that we’re using ETC rules, hence the hills are infinite height and the tower is impassable.


General, BSB & Warrior Priest knight bus up with their inner circle, wizard lord rides with larger knights and his lackey with the smaller knights. Meanwhile, Tizz BSB & general join up with the smaller horrors, and the disposable herald with the big horrors. Outriders vanguard up.

MAGIC
Herald: Searing Doom, Enchanted Blades
Herald: Searing Doom, Final Transmutation
Herald: Blue Fire, Tzeentch’s Firestorm
Horror 1: Gateway
Horror 2: Pink Fire

Wizard Lord: Iceshard Blizzard, Thunderbolt, Harmonic Convergence, Comet
Wizard: Fireball

In other words, I got just about the perfect spell selection, with perhaps Bolt being preferable to Pink Fire and Treason to Firestorm

BATTLE
Empire wins the roll with ease, and begins ominously loading up those cannons …

Turn 1

The General of the Empire nods at his stalwart standard bearer, who takes it upon himself to flick the wrist and signal the army onwards. A demigryph cops a branch to the face in the general sally, before a sizeable magical gust sees him and his fellow monstrous cavalry blessed with harmonic convergence. The cannons then roar to life, but perhaps too much life - the left machine misfires and will miss the next turn, while the right explodes out right! Auspicious! And under the cover of this cacophony, the outriders unload on the central soul grinder, missing all 15 shots thanks to the woods.


The Herald in charge of the daemons quiets the excited gibbering and gives the signal to receive the charge, as he waves the screamers up the flanks or into position. Tzeentch himself visits the field in the opening magic phase (4-1), raining pyrotechnics upon the knight bus and the smallest knights to no avail, before the large horrors’ poor casting of gateway is dispelled on dice. Finally the central soul grinder glares at the knight bus, but his beam of hate falls wide.

Turn 2

Already sick of the shenanigans, the Empire frontline crashes into the blue daemons, making a number of charges that the Tizz general thought unlikely (all charges required 9-10 and were got handily thanks to swiftstride). The Empire backfield gallops out of the range of screamer barbs, followed by a strong magic phase resulting in two screamers fried by a thunderbolt (+ roiling skies) and the central grinder frozen by iceshard blizzard – but harmonic on the knight bus was stopped with a vengeance.

With no shooting, it’s already on to some decidedly serious combats! The knight bus reaps a brutal harvest in horrors, however the wave of blue horrors released into the nethers of the knights’ horses ends up dragging down one knight, which was precisely enough to maintain steadfast. Next, the frozen grinder swings wide with his daemonbone claw, takes a wound to a chocobo, and a second to instability (combined with iceshard). Meanwhile, the thawed grinder also whiffs with his claw, but is too tough to wound and aces his instability check.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the grind


As if it were destined, the left flight of screamers charges the befuddled cannon crew, while other screamers hide or get in position to make a run at some tasty wizard flesh. Flamers and Tizz HQ scooch around and prepare for an awesome magic phase to make up for the last one … but instead are gifted with reduced ward saves (2-2), S2 (1+1) blue fire into the smallest knights, and a failed casting of baby searing doom.

Flamers are yet out of range (and struggling to find a place in this game to be honest), so back to the grind. The knight bus jellies a number of horrors and a few more with instability, however they manage to grope a wound onto the warrior priest for their troubles. The central grinder misses with his claw again, proves too tough to wound, and takes a further wound from instability (thanks iceshard!); while nearby his warmer brother explodes a demi with his own claw, winning combat but unable to break the griffon-pony-lions. Oh, the cannon crew are torn asunder and the screamers gleefully overrun.

Turn 3

The outriders, knowing they’re the squishiest target on the board, continue to get away from screamer barbs, as the wizard lord about faces and begins bristling with electrical energy. Yet another strong winds roll sees all three of the victorious screamers fried by a thunderbolt (+ roiling skies + reduced wards), the central grinder re-icesharded, and a 2D6 fireball paff off the flamers (if not dispelled).

In fighting, the knight bus ends the horrors, the herald pops to instability, and the warrior priest is dragged down in the process – take that Sigmarite! The frozen grinder manages to grab a demi in his iron claw and tear it in half with his daemonbone one, but somehow takes two wounds to angry AP critters in the process. The other grinder cops a wound as well, however is only able to playfully ruffle the feathers of his own bird monsters this round.


Screamers, go! We got this! The solo screamer overflies the outriders at long last, dropping one with barbs, and the larger flight of skydevils parks in front of the knight bus (they had reformed to face left more, so the screamers were angling them back towards the board edge). Ready for a blisteringly powerful winds roll to make use of the three wizards left on the table, Tizz instead is gifted snake eyes – the various unengaged units miraculously all pass through the instability unscathed, though the S3 (2+1) pink fire that squirts over the smallest knights manages nothing.

Kaiju Big Battle continues with the central grinder nibbled to death by a demi, as the other grinder tags and splatters his second gryph. Boom!

Turn 4

Outriders GTFO, wizard lord is a-charging up his lightning, demis pounce on Tizz HQ (and take a second wound from trees on the way), and knight bus heads into their blocking screamers. Decent magic thunderbolts the solo screamer and fireball bounces off the flamers (harmonic on demis is crushed).

Wrassle time: the knight bus skewers a screamer, they take their instability with all the negatives, and reality blinks, bringing the screamer back! The horrors are not as lucky – particularly the Tizz general, who is devoured by demis – but there are a good number left after steadfast. The remaining grinder and his demigryphs share a smoke break this turn.


Flamers inch up into range, then with some trepidation it’s time to roll for winds again … and they come up a very average 7. Thanks to lots of dead wizards, nothing of use happens (I actually think the pink fire happened this turn and nothing happened last turn, but either way, weaksauce flame template did nothing.) The flamers wave their mittens at the smallest knights and kill one! They gain regen 6+ as a result.

Combat is even more brutal than expected. The knight bus tramples their screamers a second time, grinding them out properly. The demis lay into the horrors with gusto, and though the poor blind gryph who kept hitting trees is put out of his misery, the daemons are soundly thrashed, including the BSB who is neatly gobbled up. Without a reroll, the horrors 6-6 their steadfast and pop back into the Warp. Balllllllls. While all this is happening the grinder and his demis discuss the geopolitical turmoil in Kislev and the coming of the End Times.

Turn 5

Once more with feeling! Knight bus hammers into the flamer flank, more demis join the fight with the surviving grinder. For the first time all match the Heavens are quiet (low winds or failed first casting with wizard lord), so it’s all on to the fighting. The knight bus pokes a couple flamers, however the daemons are stubborn in a wood and hold, then successfully reform as well. Revived by the arrival of all the demis, the grinder grabs a chicken and rends it asunder, taking no wounds in the process. Asked to take an instability test, the grinder resets time out of spite.


Now that all of those meddlesome daemonic wizards are off the table, the winds of magic rip through the field, boosting the ward saves of the few remaining gribbles (10!). The flamers make the best of it, losing a couple more of their number but stubbornly clinging to corporeality. And finally, the long beleaguered grinder fails to squash that last standard bearer from the demis he’d been fighting for 8+ rounds of combat, and ends the game with a second reality blink. Because can.

While we may have lost track of turns in there, I feel like we played it all the way out, for my grinder to have his day in the sun if nothing else. Regardless, hours of grinding and frustrating dice across the board ended up an EMPIRE VICTORY. (And I do mean frustrating dice, both his that never rolled 1's - on an army of 1+ saves this is huuuuuuge - and mine that could hardly manage over a 3. Count all the times that those grinders rolled to hit, and consider that 1/3 of those were at 3+ thanks to failed fear checks. Not to mention all the failed saves. Plus the garbage winds of magic, obviously.)

All that aside, still good to put daemon on table, gives me a little boost to finish painting the grinders over the next month. Particularly as they're the only things that did anything

Figure I've got about four more games before Crossroads: three game prep tournament the week before and a hopeful pickup along the way. Stay tuned!

- Salvage

For shame, Dakka - two excellent pictorial bat reps and nothing posted! Probably just an indication of how everyone is just unsure what to think / care about with fantasy with the new edition rumors still in flux.

How did Crossroads go, Salvage, and have you stuck to the dual-grinder setup? I'd love to see a pic of the event if you took any, particularly of your own army all in one place

'Tides! Thanks for checking in on this thread. I have been really quiet down here for a while, and though I could blame this -

 RiTides wrote:
For shame, Dakka - two excellent pictorial bat reps and nothing posted!

- on not posting a batrep since February, in truth I just haven't been playing much of anything. Real Life, and trying to get anything painted at all ever, has been more interesting (or at least a whole lot more pressing) than gaming of any kind.

How did Crossroads go, Salvage, and have you stuck to the dual-grinder setup? I'd love to see a pic of the event if you took any, particularly of your own army all in one place

Hells yea, you're totally right. I owe ya'll a Crossroads round up. Not just because I promised to log all my DoT battles here, but how many Xroads have I covered? Why stop now!

DAEMONS OF TZEENTCH 2400



Herald of Tzeentch – level 2 (TIZZ), BSB, exalted locus = 200
Herald of Tzeentch – level 2 (METAL), lesser gift = 150
Herald of Tzeentch – level 2 (METAL) = 125

30 Horrors – standard, musician = 410
25 Horrors – standard, musician = 345

6 Flamers = 240
3 Screamers = 120
3 Screamers = 120
3 Screamers = 120

Soul Grinder of Tzeentch – daemonbone claw = 270
Burning Chariot
Burning Chariot

I’ll be back with some game wrap-ups tonight or tomorrow, big deadline today at work

- Salvage

don't worry salvage, people follow this log.

what did you base your big screamers on? those look way better than the chariots!

also, i am a big fan of darker color-schemed tzeentch armies. mine is similar.

Cheers Slamma!

slamma wrote:
what did you base your big screamers on? those look way better than the chariots!

And thanks! I used Titan Forge Skydevils, which also come with a rider version if you want to rep the exalted flamer (or are crazy and want to put a herald up there). I get a lot of compliments on the two of them ... which makes it extra hard to get this second grinder painted to replace them with While their SD6+3 grapeshot is pimping, 12" range combined with S4/T4 can make it tough to get a lot of mileage out of them. That and SGoT are the only high strength face beaters in the list, outside of the lord-level daemons.

- Salvage

i will look into those!

i haven't played my little gribblies as a fantasy army yet… people here only play 40k… aside from reading this log, or perhaps in a condensed form, any tips on how to put together a force?
i'm familiar with fantasy, i have a sizable warriors army, but daemons seem really different...

While I usually take photos of a good number of the armies in attendance - because there are always soooo many nice ones - this year I really slacked off. I blame all the drinking + my games always taking the entire 2.5 hours, because Grind. All the same, here's some

TOKEN ARMY SHOTS



First round opponent's Empire (spoiler!)



Triple thirster, double grinder DoK! Of the five daemon armies in attendance, I think he went on to do the best, despite an overly cautious first round vs HE, which you can read about here.



Nice VC? Or maybe I was documenting the unit-filling finesse of those horrors.



Ermahgerd pink choas!



I think this is where my vow to document all the armies fell apart? Anyway, one of several TK lists!



Skittles daemons, led by what I think was a 'normal' LoC, not Kairos. Played next to him in my second round, probably throwing off his Reign of Chaos no doubt







Mike Norton's WoC for this year, and my vote for player's choice, possibly based on the use of flooring alone (Norton didn't end up winning, forget who did?)

That's all I got, though plenty of shots to come from the games themselves. Stay tuned!

- Salvage

Oh man, awsome pictures! I really dig the odd, almost pastel colors of that last army, very cool selection of tones!

Regarding this:

 Boss Salvage wrote:
Triple thirster, double grinder DoK! Of the five daemon armies in attendance, I think he went on to do the best, despite an overly cautious first round vs HE, which you can read about here.

Thanks for the link and I like his army idea, but a pet peeve of mine is seeing large plastic kits that look basically monopose repeated. The second Mountain King counts-as-grinder needed to have it's raised arm repositioned, or something!

I think you'll get more folks looking down in this section now that 9th edition rumors are really picking up steam. Just a month to go and maybe we'll all be into square bases fantasy again

Edit: And somehow, the first version of this post had me geeking out over everything that followed that I didn't comment on the long-await army shot from your prior post - it looks great! I was a little concerned previously that the disc-guy might not fit in since he looks a bit techy, but with the Soulgrinder in there, they fit together nicely! I think that's a trend with your armies, some crazy elements come together to form a cohesive whole . I really love the look and also quite like the minimalist display board, is that laser etched acrylic, or something else?

 RiTides wrote:
Oh man, awsome pictures! I really dig the odd, almost pastel colors of that last army, very cool selection of tones!

A lot of Norton's armies have a cell shade thing going on, which some people (like me) really like, and paint judges either love or grudgingly respect because he's Mike Norton This WoC I think are the most extreme version of this - I think I liked his skink-heavy Lizards better from a year or two back, but still impressive. And that basing!

I like his army idea, but a pet peeve of mine is seeing large plastic kits that look basically monopose repeated. The second Mountain King counts-as-grinder needed to have it's raised arm repositioned, or something!

Word. I like doubling up on giant kits, but I always go to some length to change them both when I do. I feel like the Glacial King would make a great #2 for this dude, but we'll see how things look in 9E. Hell, five giant daemonic monsters might just be awesome, MC spam in 40k certainly is a thing!

I think you'll get more folks looking down in this section now that 9th edition rumors are really picking up steam. Just a month to go and maybe we'll all be into square bases fantasy again

Annnnnd we'll see if I'm down here telling you about Fantastical things Battle Chronicler certainly works for round based games, but I've yet to do a report in BC for a skirmish game, just so many circles to swarm around.

Related comment I was saving for later: I'm currently signed up for Crossroads Fall 2015. However it's undecided if it'll be a legacy () 8E GT or a straight out of the book 9E GT, like we did shortly after 8E hit. Not sure I can fork over $60 on that gamble, given money is do before the next edition hits - whether that's July 11 or later.

Edit: And somehow, the first version of this post had me geeking out over everything that followed that I didn't comment on the long-await army shot from your prior post - it looks great! I was a little concerned previously that the disc-guy might not fit in since he looks a bit techy, but with the Soulgrinder in there, they fit together nicely! I think that's a trend with your armies, some crazy elements come together to form a cohesive whole . I really love the look and also quite like the minimalist display board, is that laser etched acrylic, or something else?

Thanks! Yea, the grinder just continues the theme of using weird 40k models in a Fantasy army. All the characters and plenty other things are 1988 Chaos Renegades, but of course back in 1988 there was plenty of Chaos things crossing over between the realms. So a nod to a pre-bubbleverse concept of shared dimensions

Oh, and the display board is a beautiful sheet of black acrylic with a custom vinyl DoT decal - you know, the kind that go on cars I have two more, still wondering why I haven't stuck one on my Fit .......

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:
Related comment I was saving for later: I'm currently signed up for Crossroads Fall 2015. However it's undecided if it'll be a legacy () 8E GT or a straight out of the book 9E GT, like we did shortly after 8E hit. Not sure I can fork over $60 on that gamble, given money is do before the next edition hits - whether that's July 11 or later.

Maybe we'll get some halfway decent rumors before the due date - I'm surprised they wouldn't adjust the deadline slightly based on the new edition, but then again I'm sure they've already paid for the space / etc and need to run the event regardless of what ruleset is chosen.

And you might not need to go round-base for bat-reps... if it's like LOTR there could still be square units! I'm holding out hope for that... honestly, if that and chaos dwarfs still being legal in some fashion worked out, it might be the best of both worlds for me and finally get me to assemble and paint commission the army . I could even consider going counts-as with normal dwarfs, but I don't think it will be a fit because of all the other awesome gribblies CD can run (monsters, monstrous infantry, monstrous cavalry, and a bunch of cheap gobbos).

So, any hints on how things went for the Tizz host at this past Crossroads?

 RiTides wrote:
So, any hints on how things went for the Tizz host at this past Crossroads?

Stay awhile and listen ...

GAME ONE: EMPIRE

Arch Lector – talisman of preservation, dragonhelm, horn of Sigismund, heavy armor, shield; war altar
Wizard Lord – level 4 (LIGHT), power stone
Wizard – level 2 (LIGHT), dispel scroll
Wizard – level 2 (LIGHT), scroll of shielding
Captain – BSB, armor of meteoric iron, great weapon
Captain – ogre blade, charmed shield, luckstone, full plate, barded warhorse
Captain – enchanted shield, dragonbane gem, lance, full plate, pegasus
Witch Hunter

11 Inner Circle Knights – full command
45 Halberdiers – full command
> 5 Archers

4 Demigryph Knights – musician
Great Cannon

Steam Tank



HoT1 – Searing Doom, Final Transmutation
HoT2 – Searing Doom, Enchanted Blades
HoT3 – Treason, Firestorm
H1 – Pink Fire
H2 – Glean Magic

Lesser Gift: Wand of Whimsy (0)
Regen Tokens: 4

Reign of Chaos: 2,4,7,7,11,12

Empire Light Council in the first round playing DoT without Gateway – in fact with no spell worth casting that could summon horrors? This was Warhammer on Hard Mode! I settled down to rely on my multiple Metal nuke spells … until my first magic phase. 1-1 on the first Winds roll of the GT wounded a single screamer, then gave just enough dice to 6-6 a little Searing Doom and drag my general gribbling back to the warp, along with his much needed spells.

The Reign of Comedy continued by dropping wards in Turn 2, which paired nicely with the barrage of Banishment and Shem’s to remove the chariots, the screamers, etc. The knights / halberdiers got smacked around and regen’d up thanks to warpflame, before eventually joining the grind with the horrors.

The only real upside was the grinder biding his time out of LoS (thanks to ETC terrain rules), before cresting his hill and tempting fate. The cannon misfired (or was being devoured by screamers), followed by demis charging in and bouncing off the daemon engine. A well-timed Treason helped the grinder break and catch the demis, overrunning into the waltar’s flank, then getting rear-charged by the waiting stank.



The grinder pushed his luck and swung for the arch lector, but whether or not he squashed the little man in his daemonbone claw, it mattered not, as the stank ground the monster out and the altar preserved its VP either way.

Finally, in Turn 6 as the last of the horrors were being ground to goo (or steadfasting eternally in the case of the big horrors), a 6-6 Winds summoned moar horrors with Gateway, who blasted something but IIRC did more damage to themselves with the miscast.

Victory Points: 678 vs 2075

Hard to say this wasn’t a brutal way to start the tournament, between the rough matchup, the poor spell selection, immediately losing my general, and the Winds acting up

GAME TWO: VAMPIRE COUNTS

Vampire Lord – level 4 (VAMPS), red fury, quickblood, beguile, ogre blade, enchanted shield, talisman of preservation, heavy armor, barded nightmare
Vampire – level 1 (VAMPS), BSB (screaming), dread knight, lance, shield, heavy armor, barded nightmare
Vampire – level 2 (DEATH), dread knight, lance, shield, heavy armor, barded nightmare
Vampire – level 1 (VAMPS), dispel scroll, dread knight, lance, shield, heavy armor, barded nightmare

60 Zombies – standard
60 Zombies – standard
10 Skeletons – standard (scarecrow), musician
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves

12 Black Knights – standard (swiftness), musician, lances, barding
3 Vargheists

Terrorgheist



HoT1 – Searing Doom, Final Transmutation
HoT2 – Searing Doom, Enchanted Blades
HoT3 – Treason, Gateway
H1 – Blue Fire
H2 – Bolt of Change

Lesser Gift: Wand of Whimsy (1)
Regen Tokens: 9

Reign of Chaos: 7,7,9,9,8,11



12’ of Daemons!

Round two and I was up against a super nice dude, playing his third game of Fantasy ever. The scenario was Blood & Glory, with battle points for breaking the enemy first, not being broken back, etc. He deployed his knightbus very far away from most of my army, keeping all 120 zombies in between the two of us, which had two major impacts: 1) he wasn’t able to bring the blenderlord + friends’ insane killing power to bear until late, with so much in the way of them; 2) I realized at some point that in order to get the extra BP for max points, I wouldn’t be able to assassinate his general to break him – I’d have to go through every single zombie to get at their standards

He was also pretty psyched out by my grinder’s insta-gib claw, so I made a mini-game of the big guy stalking his knight bus across the field:

Turn 0


Turn 1


Turn 2


Turn 3


Sadly he was finally charged and dismantled by the vamp lord, but still a fun time. Ultimately, I really should have gotten him stuck into the zombies, where his t-stomp would have been tremendous, though in my defense the grinder’s huge base made it hard to fit in there.

As you can see in the grinder POV shots, undead things were busy dying (again). I took first turn and punched screamers through each wolf unit and into the VC backfield in short order, obliterated the terrorgheist when it hopped into my lines to scream a few wounds off a chariot, then committed to killing zombies in earnest.



Even the flamers got in on the party, merrily roasting deadites up close. (if you didn’t know, flamers have warpflame in combat as well as shooting, hence all those regen tokens )



This is around Turn 5, with the grinder gone and zombies dwindling. The knight bus had taken a serious bruising from a Turn 2 IF Gateway (miscast = BSB forgot his spells!), and a Turn 5 IF Final Trans that sniped out two vamps (miscast = general forgot his spells!), before getting well and truly stuck on the smaller horrors.





The vamps would end the game there. Of course, the main event was the great Daemons of Tzeentch vs Zombie battles. One chariot + six screamers were able to rend their zombies apart and claim their standard, but how about those flamers? Six daemons with WS2 S4 A2 managed to get 120 zombies down to a single, 2+ regenerating undead standard bearer

Victory Points: 1424 vs 420

I wasn’t able to grab the extra BP, but it was a solid win – and a crazy game – all the same.

GAME THREE: EMPIRE

Wizard Lord – level 4 (LIGHT), scepter of stability
Arch Lector – mace of helstrum, armor of meteoric iron
Wizard – level 2 (HEAVENS), dispel scroll
Captain – BSB, biting blade, dragonhelm, shield, full plate
Warrior Priest – enchanted shield, dragonbane gem, heavy armor, barded warhorse
Witch Hunter

11 Inner Circle Knights – full command (gleaming pennant)
40 Halberdiers – full command
> 14 Spearmen

5 Demigryph Knights – standard (steel), musician
Great Cannon
5 Pistoliers – musician

Steam Tank
Celestial Hurricanum



HoT1 – Searing Doom, Golden Hounds
HoT2 – Searing Doom, Transmutation of Lead
HoT3 – Pink Fire, Glean Magic
H1 – Bolt of Change
H2 – Gateway

Lesser Gift: Noxious Breath
Regen Total: 2

DoT Winds: 9,6,7,6,8,2

Round three, time to finish the first day with even more Empire and even more Light magic. Meeting Engagement added extra complications to the mix, but at least I had Gateway and was up against a quality gent I’ve played at least one other time at Crossroads. Though we were both really laid back – and I had started drinking the first of eight Oculto for that night – the game ended up being really cagey and low scoring.



While my fast things shot up the flanks, the rest of the boys mostly held back at max magic range, with the grinder hiding as best as he could in the shadow of a hill, before I think eventually coping it to that unit of knights.



Probably the most exciting / ridiculous part of the game happened mid-field, where the demis bravely sauntered across the table long-wise, continually breaking and rallying after being blasted turn after turn with Tizz spells. Much to the frustration of my lurking chariot, which had to fight for a chance to unload on them, thanks to all the compulsory movement they were undergoing.

Victory Points: 580 vs 885

A minor win for the Empire in the end, and a close to one of the lower scoring days of my Crossroads career. I went on to drink a lot more Oculto and play a ton of King of New York

- Salvage

Nice report! Bummer about the rough handling at the hands of the Empire. Great to see the lads all painted up though!

 Wehrkind wrote:
Nice report! Bummer about the rough handling at the hands of the Empire. Great to see the lads all painted up though!

Thanks man! Yea, the definite best thing about these games was seeing all 2400 points of my army painted, amassed and in motion. I think I started building this army almost two years before this GT? Long time coming.

As for those two tough Empire matchups, you ain't seen nothing yet

GAME FOUR: HIGH ELVES

Alarielle the Everqueen
Archmage – level 4 (HIGH), book of hoeth, talisman of preservation
Noble – BSB, sword of anti-heroes, shield of the merwyrm, dragon armor

12 Silver Helms – full command, shields
5 Ellyrion Reavers – musician, bows, spears
5 Ellyrion Reavers – bows, spears
5 Ellyrion Reavers – bows, spears

28 White Lions – full command (banner of the world dragon), shields
24 Phoenix Guard – full command (razor banner)

Great Eagle
Great Eagle



HoT1 – Enchanted Blades, Transmutation of Lead
HoT2 – Searing Doom, Final Transmutation
HoT3 – Treason, Bolt of Change
H1 – Pink Fire
H2 – Gateway

Lesser Gift: Dark Blessing
Regen Tokens: 2

Reign of Chaos: 6,6,5,10,11,9

Slightly hungover – Oculto combines all the downsides of bad light beer with bad tequila – I was at least happy to see I was matched up against a pretty standard Dwarf list. The grinder may not do much beyond cower for the first few turns, but eventually I’d kill all the warmachines and set about maiming anything that wasn’t a hammerstar.

Except apparently the pairings were wrong. I was moved one table up, to face the Everqueen Herself

In my experience, BotW elves (so most of them) vs DoT means I’m liking going to draw, unless it’s a heavily comped event and the BotWstar isn’t loaded with all the points, or I get very lucky. ETC is not heavy comp, so there was that. But Alarielle made the hard counter matchup extremely unpleasant – for those who don’t know (which was me until this game), on top of all her other bonuses (loads of spell options, can recast one a game, has a regen aura, has D6W attak vs Forces of Destruction in combat), she also automatically does something like D6 S4 hits to all daemons within 12” at the beginning of her magic phase. I’m playing MSU T3-4 daemons which need to encircle the BotWstar to kill it, staying about 12” away. And we’re playing a scenario where you get bonus points for being close to the center of the table at the end.



Well if I go first I might still have a chance, with that extra cast of Final Trans …



Seizing the first turn, Alarielle sent her force full bore into the daemonic host. There was a glimmer of hope (and trepidation!) when Papa Nurgle visited the field twice in a row, culling an entire unit of reavers and an eagle, while leaving the blue daemons with nary a case of the sniffles. And a combination of Final Trans + Gateway + soul grinder + flamers managed to finish off the phoenix guard (at the cost of the grinder), but the inevitable came to pass as it so often does, and Alarielle began melting through horrors at a frightening pace.



Meanwhile my flotilla of skysharks had done whatever it was they were doing on the flanks (killing eagles and reavers I’m guessing), and were cruising back in to surround the star and unleash ‘Death By A Thousand Dice’ upon it, while weathering the Everqueen’s hater aura.



Too soon all the horrors had mean reduced to jelly, in fact so had nearly all of my army. My screamers and chariots did what they could to get either the BotWstar or the silver helms to either break or get below 25% (honestly I should have focused entirely on the helms immediately, not just in the last turn), but couldn’t manage it.



That’s a shot of the end game. Amazingly, that’s 1570 points of HE vs 270 points of DoT, with Alarielle’s crew squatting on the central objective. I could probably come up with a final total if you wanted it, but clearly, I didn’t limp away from this match with many points!

GAME FIVE: DAEMONS OF NURGLE

Daemon Prince of Nurgle – level 4 (NURGLE), greater gift, daemonic flight, chaos armor
Herald of Nurgle – BSB, level 1 (NURGLE), greater locus
Herald of Nurgle – level 1 (NURGLE), lesser gift, greater locus

24 Plaguebearers – full command
24 Plaguebearers – full command

3 Beasts of Nurgle
3 Beasts of Nurgle
3 Beasts of Nurgle
5 Furies of Nurgle
5 Furies of Nurgle

Skull Cannon of “Nurgle”



HoT1 – Plague of Rust, Transmutation of Lead
HoT2 – Searing Doom, Final Transmutation
HoT3 – Glean Magic, Bolt of Change
H1 – Gateway
H2 – Firestorm

Lesser Gift: Wand of Whimsy (1)
Regen Tokens: 4

Reign of Chaos (N): 7,4,7,8,5
Reign of Chaos (T): 11,3,9,6,6

Alarielle had punted my daemons down to the top of the last row of tables, where I discovered that my last game of the GT would be a chart-slapping, hatred-filled, dicefest between two daemonic rivals similarly down on their luck! We had both faired pretty poorly through the previous games – in fact none of the five daemon armies in attendance did very well, which makes sense given all the bad matchups and hard counters – but were able to put aside our commiserations for one last throwdown.








The daemonic hordes assemble!


As do the spell cards!

The opening rounds were fairly cagey, as I actually think that DoN + a skillcannon is yet another serious counter against my army, since his beasts (especially bolstered by hatred) can grind through any of my units, my magic has little purchase against him and in fact makes him better by increasing his regens to problematic levels immediately, and that skullcannon had to be dealt with so the grinder could make an appearance.



So screamers were shot out as wizards gained range and grindersauce + chariots cowered.



Eventually the grinder crested the hill, giving the skullcannon one shot before it was swarmed with screamers … and the not-Khorne artillery piece jammed!



And the cannon was dispatched. You can also see the grinder beset by beasts that it was making little headway against with its insta-gib claw, while the big horror block struggled for multiple rounds to dig through its own infestation of beasts.



Meanwhile on the other half of the field, a chariot had managed to get some legit pink fire shots across the plague blocks, turning off their regen long enough for the flamers to burn a few more down.



Around this time the chaos gods decided to get involved, with him calling down Slaanesh, who molested a couple wounds off of both burning chariots, while I awkwardly summoned Nurgle Himself. Papa tickled a screamer here and a horror there, but turned the (vast) bulk of his attention upon the Nurgle Prince. 9 S3 no armor hits turned the DP to liquid effluent (in a bad way), solving a problem I was struggling to answer myself.



And then my BSB gleaned away his BSB’s spell, amidst much giggling



Sadly while all this was happening the grinder was swamped with beasts and cuddled to death, leaving us to redress the lines sans big dudes going into Turn 5:



Thinking about it, I was pretty sure there were no more points for me to get, barring 25% on one of those plague blocks. So everything went into one of the ‘bearers units, as yet more beasts bounded into my general’s horrors (my general having tactically withdrawn since the last round of beasts).



This is more or less where we ended. The rear-charging furies were torn apart by exploding blue horrors, but the rest of the not-necessarily-blue horrors steadfasted like pros.

Victory Points: 1025 vs 1155

In other words, a draw I think we ended up playing five turns, as we were the last game still going, the hall was being dismantled and our table was set exactly where the rewards were supposed to be happening shortly.

--------

As always, Crossroads is a great event and I had decent fun, though I’d be lying if I said the matchups didn’t feel like counter after counter. I know Daemons of Tzeentch are a soft sub-build of a mediocre book, but I felt like I didn’t have much of a chance at victory in many of these matches. I kind of want to blame ETC for some of this, which allows a whole lot of filth through, as opposed to Swedish comp, which rewards a whole lot of variety … but I knew it was ETC going in, and that I’d be on the back pseudopod no matter the comp pack. I did manage my best painting score yet (not mindblowingly high but stronger than my Skaven and definitely my Ogres) and actually one of my best sports scores as well

Like I let slip earlier, Spring Crossroads 2015 is happening in September as usual, and I’m currently signed up. Odds are it’ll be a straight 9E event, unless the game changes so wildly that either our armies are entirely invalidated, it flat out has no place in competitive play, or the player base abandons it, in which case Crossroads will be an 8E legacy GT. And, judging by the huge shout in its favor, Swedish comp might just make an appearance

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:
In my experience, BotW elves (so most of them) vs DoT means I’m liking going to draw, unless it’s a heavily comped event and the BotWstar isn’t loaded with all the points, or I get very lucky. ETC is not heavy comp, so there was that. But Alarielle made the hard counter matchup extremely unpleasant – for those who don’t know (which was me until this game), on top of all her other bonuses (loads of spell options, can recast one a game, has a healing aura), she also automatically does something like D6 S4 hits to all daemons within 12” at the beginning of her magic phase. I’m playing MSU T3-4 daemons which need to encircle the BotWstar to kill it, staying about 12” away. And we’re playing a scenario where you get bonus points for being close to the center of the table at the end.

...

Meanwhile my flotilla of skysharks had done whatever it was they were doing on the flanks (killing eagles and reavers I’m guessing), and were cruising back in to surround the star and unleash ‘Death By A Thousand Dice’ upon it, while weathering the Everqueen’s hater aura.

Lol at "hater aura" . That does make for a really bad matchup, ugh! Looks like you had them down to very few models by the end, though, so a good showing even though the score didn't reflect / reward it.

Love the bat reps but that does look like it was a bit of a blender! I feel like daemons are a GW hallmark and very safe for usability in 9th edition, though, so here's hoping the army gets a little more teeth (or tentacles?) via rules revision in a few weeks