So there's been a lot of questioning about this. Here's my approximations on some key primarchs.
-Leman Russ: 14ft (stated to be 1.75*an astartes in every physical dimension)
-Horus: 15ft (just a rough guess based on official art depicting him in excess of twice the height of an astartes)
-Sanguinius: 13 feet (shown in official art to be shorter than Horus)
-Magnus the Red: height varies due to sheer psychic power of biology. In general 9-10ft when trying to be unintimidating. 18-20ft normally. Both he and Russ literally grew to Warlord Titan size when they got serious in thier fight.
-Angron: 12ft (shown to be shorter than his brothers but far thicker in musculature)
-Fulgrim: 12ft (same as Angron but not nearly as thick)
-Ferrus Manus: 14ft (shown to be taller than most primarchs like Russ)
Those are some crazy numbers, methinks. My impression is that primarch's would be more in the 9ft range(if we accept that average astartes to be ~7.5ft).
I don't have any references to point to other than some artwork and the classic 'head and shoulders taller' description I've come across, but that feels more sensible to me.
ThePrimordial wrote: So there's been a lot of questioning about this. Here's my approximations on some key primarchs.
-Leman Russ: 14ft (stated to be 1.75*an astartes in every physical dimension)
-Horus: 15ft (just a rough guess based on official art depicting him in excess of twice the height of an astartes)
-Sanguinius: 13 feet (shown in official art to be shorter than Horus)
-Magnus the Red: height varies due to sheer psychic power of biology. In general 9-10ft when trying to be unintimidating. 18-20ft normally. Both he and Russ literally grew to Warlord Titan size when they got serious in thier fight.
-Angron: 12ft (shown to be shorter than his brothers but far thicker in musculature)
-Fulgrim: 12ft (same as Angron but not nearly as thick)
-Ferrus Manus: 14ft (shown to be taller than most primarchs like Russ)
ThePrimordial wrote: So there's been a lot of questioning about this. Here's my approximations on some key primarchs.
-Leman Russ: 14ft (stated to be 1.75*an astartes in every physical dimension)
-Horus: 15ft (just a rough guess based on official art depicting him in excess of twice the height of an astartes)
-Sanguinius: 13 feet (shown in official art to be shorter than Horus)
-Magnus the Red: height varies due to sheer psychic power of biology. In general 9-10ft when trying to be unintimidating. 18-20ft normally. Both he and Russ literally grew to Warlord Titan size when they got serious in thier fight.
-Angron: 12ft (shown to be shorter than his brothers but far thicker in musculature)
-Fulgrim: 12ft (same as Angron but not nearly as thick)
-Ferrus Manus: 14ft (shown to be taller than most primarchs like Russ)
Clearly you have been taking something illegal.
Astartes 7ft5
Terminators 8ft5
Primarchs 9ft5
Each one varies and can have shorter and taller examples.
Vaerros wrote: Those are some crazy numbers, methinks. My impression is that primarch's would be more in the 9ft range(if we accept that average astartes to be ~7.5ft).
I don't have any references to point to other than some artwork and the classic 'head and shoulders taller' description I've come across, but that feels more sensible to me.
It's more than "head and shoulders" bud. In some rather early artwork space wolves attacking Prospero come up to Magnus' knees.
And for Russ his height would still be 13 feet given the Astartes height you gave.
The general numbers for a Primarch are 1.5 to 1.75 times the scale of an Astartes in every dimension.
Alpharius was stated to be the height of a very tall Astartes. So about 9ft. And Alpharius was a midget to his brothers.
Vaerros wrote: Those are some crazy numbers, methinks. My impression is that primarch's would be more in the 9ft range(if we accept that average astartes to be ~7.5ft).
I don't have any references to point to other than some artwork and the classic 'head and shoulders taller' description I've come across, but that feels more sensible to me.
It's more than "head and shoulders" bud. In some rather early artwork space wolves attacking Prospero come up to Magnus' knees.
And for Russ his height would still be 13 feet given the Astartes height you gave.
The general numbers for a Primarch are 1.5 to 1.75 times the scale of an Astartes in every dimension.
Alpharius was stated to be the height of a very tall Astartes. So about 9ft. And Alpharius was a midget to his brothers.
Given that what we have to work with numbers-wise is quite inconsistent(I've definitely come across literature where a primarch was described as being 'head and shoulders' taller), I'll go with what seems sensible to me. ~13ft is just comically tall, I would say.
Vaerros wrote: Those are some crazy numbers, methinks. My impression is that primarch's would be more in the 9ft range(if we accept that average astartes to be ~7.5ft).
I don't have any references to point to other than some artwork and the classic 'head and shoulders taller' description I've come across, but that feels more sensible to me.
It's more than "head and shoulders" bud. In some rather early artwork space wolves attacking Prospero come up to Magnus' knees.
And for Russ his height would still be 13 feet given the Astartes height you gave.
The general numbers for a Primarch are 1.5 to 1.75 times the scale of an Astartes in every dimension.
Alpharius was stated to be the height of a very tall Astartes. So about 9ft. And Alpharius was a midget to his brothers.
Given that what we have to work with numbers-wise is quite inconsistent(I've definitely come across literature where a primarch was described as being 'head and shoulders' taller), I'll go with what seems sensible to me. ~13ft is just comically tall, I would say.
The Primarchs aren't human. They're kinda supposed to be hilariously tall.
The artwork of 30ft Magnus is showing up for everyone right?
They were 12 miles tall, belched tactical nukes, and threw mountains at incoming imperial battleships.
They actually used thier flagships as swords to duel each other with.
What, no one told you George Washington was a Primarch?
Anyway, from the artwork that I saw, Horus is supposed to be around the same height of the emperor.
Going by that showdown between empy and horus, and assuming a space marine is 7 feet tall, you are probably looking at a 9-10 foot tall primarch.
If you were to zoom out of the second picture Horus would be at least twice the height of those astartes.
You can tell from what little sticks out of the marines.
SarisKhan wrote: I think your estimates are off. Primarchs were indeed taller than Astartes, significantly so, but 12-15 ft. seems ridiculous. No offence.
Again they were never human.
And Russ is literally described as 1.75 times the scale of an astartes in every dimension.
Actually, no. The astartes on the Emperor's side are on a lower elevation. The Astartes on Horus's side are on the same elevation as him. If you were to bring the astartes out of the background, you'd find they would be more than half his size. In fact, the astartes to the left of Horus is up to his elbow, and he appears to only be a few feet back.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Actually, no. The astartes on the Emperor's side are on a lower elevation. The Astartes on Horus's side are on the same elevation as him. If you were to bring the astartes out of the background, you'd find they would be more than half his size. In fact, the astartes to the left of Horus is up to his elbow, and he appears to only be a few feet back.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Actually, no. The astartes on the Emperor's side are on a lower elevation. The Astartes on Horus's side are on the same elevation as him. If you were to bring the astartes out of the background, you'd find they would be more than half his size. In fact, the astartes to the left of Horus is up to his elbow, and he appears to only be a few feet back.
Sanguinius must be like 5'9 then.
Closer to 8-9 feet. Since we can see his whole body, and since it was on roughly the same level as Horus, we can measure him out and compare him to Horus. He only appears to be about a foot shorter. Assuming Horus is 9-10 feet, that would make Sanguinius around 8-9 feet. Which is still pretty tall.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Actually, no. The astartes on the Emperor's side are on a lower elevation. The Astartes on Horus's side are on the same elevation as him. If you were to bring the astartes out of the background, you'd find they would be more than half his size. In fact, the astartes to the left of Horus is up to his elbow, and he appears to only be a few feet back.
Sanguinius must be like 5'9 then.
Closer to 8-9 feet. Since we can see his whole body, and since it was on roughly the same level as Horus, we can measure him out and compare him to Horus. He only appears to be about a foot shorter. Assuming Horus is 9-10 feet, that would make Sanguinius around 8-9 feet. Which is still pretty tall.
The vast majority of Sanguinius' body is shown and he is half Horus' height. The only thing not shown is his feet.
Look at the difference in thier chests and legs.
If Horus is 10 feet then Sanguinius would literally be like 5'9.
Russ, Wolves and Sisters of Silence (near Astartes size in Collected Visions).
Spoiler:
I think it is like this:
Astartes: average 7,5". Perhaps 8".
Alpharius and Omegon: 7,5", perhaps 8". Slightly bigger than the average Astartes.
Russ and Angron were the shortest of the rest. 8,5", perhaps 9".
Then the rest. Horus looks bigger because he is wearing Terminator Armour. I will go for 9,5", perhaps even 10". That´s a giant.
Then Magnus. 11"?
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Actually, no. The astartes on the Emperor's side are on a lower elevation. The Astartes on Horus's side are on the same elevation as him. If you were to bring the astartes out of the background, you'd find they would be more than half his size. In fact, the astartes to the left of Horus is up to his elbow, and he appears to only be a few feet back.
Sanguinius must be like 5'9 then.
Closer to 8-9 feet. Since we can see his whole body, and since it was on roughly the same level as Horus, we can measure him out and compare him to Horus. He only appears to be about a foot shorter. Assuming Horus is 9-10 feet, that would make Sanguinius around 8-9 feet. Which is still pretty tall.
The vast majority of Sanguinius' body is shown and he is half Horus' height. The only thing not shown is his feet. Look at the difference in thier chests and legs. If Horus is 10 feet then Sanguinius would literally be like 5'9.
You can see his feet. Look at the throne room picture. In the picture where they are all lined up, Sanguinius is furthest away, so of course he looks smaller. Compare him to the guy next to him, and the guy after that, and you will see they are all roughly the same height. Horus and Magnus are clearly the tallest of the bunch.
da001 wrote: Russ, Wolves and Sisters of Silence (near Astartes size in Collected Visions).
Spoiler:
I think it is like this:
Astartes: average 7,5". Perhaps 8".
Alpharius and Omegon: 7,5", perhaps 8". Slightly bigger than the average Astartes.
Russ and Angron were the shortest of the rest. 8,5", perhaps 9".
Then the rest. Horus looks bigger because he is wearing Terminator Armour. I will go for 9,5", perhaps even 10". That´s a giant.
Then Magnus. 11"?
Alpharius is not slightly bigger. Your estimates don't even account for an increase in size there but whatever. Alpharius is the height of a very tall astartes or custodes. He's like 9 feet tall.
Magnus 11 feet tall.
Have you seen the cover art of A Thousand Sons?
Look at the space marines at the very back where Magnus is.
They come up to his thighs while he's doing some kind of bizarre kneel (or on far lower ground then the astartes) and it takes 3 lined up side to side to obscure his thighs.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Actually, no. The astartes on the Emperor's side are on a lower elevation. The Astartes on Horus's side are on the same elevation as him. If you were to bring the astartes out of the background, you'd find they would be more than half his size. In fact, the astartes to the left of Horus is up to his elbow, and he appears to only be a few feet back.
Sanguinius must be like 5'9 then.
Closer to 8-9 feet. Since we can see his whole body, and since it was on roughly the same level as Horus, we can measure him out and compare him to Horus. He only appears to be about a foot shorter. Assuming Horus is 9-10 feet, that would make Sanguinius around 8-9 feet. Which is still pretty tall.
The vast majority of Sanguinius' body is shown and he is half Horus' height. The only thing not shown is his feet.
Look at the difference in thier chests and legs.
If Horus is 10 feet then Sanguinius would literally be like 5'9.
You can see his feet. Look at the throne room picture. In the picture where they are all lined up, Sanguinius is furthest away, so of course he looks smaller. Compare him to the guy next to him, and the guy after that, and you will see they are all roughly the same height. Horus and Magnus are clearly the tallest of the bunch.
Sanguinius is actually the closest because he covers up parts of Horus.
The classic "The Traitor Primarchs".
Both The Red Angel (the one floating), Abaddon and Arhiman are close enough to Horus to get a sense of proportion.
Wow, Ingethel the Ascended is so sexy. Best looking female Daemon ever.
Spoiler:
Guilliman punching out the head of a Word Bearer.
It is hard to get a sense of scale, but I find it fun.
Alpharius is not slightly bigger. Your estimates don't even account for an increase in size there but whatever. Alpharius is the height of a very tall astartes or custodes. He's like 9 feet tall.
That´s what I meant by "slightly bigger". They were supposed to be able to disguise as an Astartes.
I don´t know where did you get the Alpharius is 9 feet tall. If he were 1-2 feet over an Astartes, then no way he could be mistaken with one.
The classic "The Traitor Primarchs".
Both The Red Angel (the one floating), Abaddon and Arhiman are close enough to Horus to get a sense of proportion.
Wow, Ingethel the Ascended is so sexy. Best looking female Daemon ever.
Spoiler:
Guilliman punching out the head of a Word Bearer.
It is hard to get a sense of scale, but I find it fun.
Alpharius is not slightly bigger. Your estimates don't even account for an increase in size there but whatever. Alpharius is the height of a very tall astartes or custodes. He's like 9 feet tall.
That´s what I meant by "slightly bigger". They were supposed to be able to disguise as an Astartes.
I don´t know where did you get the Alpharius is 9 feet tall. If he were 1-2 feet over an Astartes, then no way he could be mistaken with one.
The average astartes is 8 feet tall. Do you really think there can't be a 1 foot differential?
Constantin Valdor, the hero of the custodies was the height of Alpharius.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Wait, I'm confused. Which image are you talking about?
The one you gave with Horus, Sanguinius and the Emperor.
Horus stands 8.5 inches tall at the head, and Sanguinius measures 5.5 inches from his head to the end of his feet.
Told ya.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Magnus 11 feet tall......
Have you seen the cover art of A Thousand Sons?
Look at the space marines at the very back where Magnus is.
They come up to his thighs while he's doing some kind of bizarre kneel (or on far lower ground then the astartes) and it takes 3 lined up side to side to obscure his thighs.
The average astartes is 8 feet tall. Do you really think there can't be a 1 foot differential?
Of course I do. He was supposed to of a similar size. If he was 1 foot bigger, he would have been spotted easily.
7,5" feet for Astartes and 8" for Alpharius sounds fine.
Constantin Valdor, the hero of the custodies was the height of Alpharius.
Source? I thought Valdor was the size of your average Primarch
The average astartes is 8 feet tall. Do you really think there can't be a 1 foot differential?
Of course I do. He was supposed to of a similar size. If he was 1 foot bigger, he would have been spotted easily.
7,5" feet for Astartes and 8" for Alpharius sounds fine.
Constantin Valdor, the hero of the custodies was the height of Alpharius.
Source? I thought Valdor was the size of your average Primarch
Valdor, The Emperor and Jenetta Krole:
Spoiler:
A relatively tall Astartes still could've posed as Alpharius. This was an impossibility with the other primarchs.
ThePrimordial wrote: So there's been a lot of questioning about this. Here's my approximations on some key primarchs.
-Leman Russ: 14ft (stated to be 1.75*an astartes in every physical dimension)
-Horus: 15ft (just a rough guess based on official art depicting him in excess of twice the height of an astartes)
-Sanguinius: 13 feet (shown in official art to be shorter than Horus)
-Magnus the Red: height varies due to sheer psychic power of biology. In general 9-10ft when trying to be unintimidating. 18-20ft normally. Both he and Russ literally grew to Warlord Titan size when they got serious in thier fight.
-Angron: 12ft (shown to be shorter than his brothers but far thicker in musculature)
-Fulgrim: 12ft (same as Angron but not nearly as thick)
-Ferrus Manus: 14ft (shown to be taller than most primarchs like Russ)
Wait what's this about warlord size?
At the end of "A Thousand Sons" Magnus and Russ are stated by Ahriman to grow to titanic (taller than the thousand sons reaver) heights to engage in their battle, just like the legends would've painted.
Magnus also grew to warlord size to punch gargants to death.
Astartes always average eight feet tall. Alpharius should be around nine feet as he could disguise himself as a tall Astartes, and the rest of the Primarchs were upwards of ten feet or greater. Magnus was a giant and dwarfed everyone.
Russ and Angron were the shortest of the rest. 8,5", perhaps 9".
Russ was explicitly said to be one of the largest Primarchs in Index Astartes.
Where exactly? I only find "Magnus the Red was a giant of a man, standing far taller than even his brother Primarchs" in The Horus Heresy entry, Index Astartes SW.
I thought he was smaller than the rest (with Angron). The art piece from Prospero Burns I posted is just one source. Another is "Leman Russ and Bodyguard". The bodyguard is taller than him.
Spoiler:
By the way, I was mistaken regarding Primarch Alpharius. He was taller than I thought: from the same source. "More than foot taller even than the Luna Wolves Space Marines, he had piercing green eyes and looked almost a match for Horus himself."
Which makes really confusing how he could pass for one of their legionaries.
@ThePrimordial: you were right regarding Alpharius.
What about the size of Valdor? I always supposed he was the size of a Primarch or really close.
Compare the Emperor to the Sisters of Silence in the picture above, for example.
Sisters of Silence were supposed to be heavily augmented too and they are consistently depicted as Astartes-size and clearly not mere humans.
Look at this:
Spoiler:
Do they look conventional humans?
However, James Swallow described them as tiny little girls that are unable to stop talking about their feelings. Perhaps they have many different ranks and the lower class is human-like. Let´s hope Forgeworld add some good stuff during 2014, a book about the burning of Prospero is in the making.
Orblivion wrote: Still, its rather jarring to see the primarchs in comparison to regular humans like that.
I find that artwork really disturbing. If they were that big, how were they able to take part in boardings? Imperial spaceships are stupidly big inside, but the average human sized ship... they would be unable to move.
Russ and Angron were the shortest of the rest. 8,5", perhaps 9".
Russ was explicitly said to be one of the largest Primarchs in Index Astartes.
Where exactly? I only find "Magnus the Red was a giant of a man, standing far taller than even his brother Primarchs" in The Horus Heresy entry, Index Astartes SW.
I thought he was smaller than the rest (with Angron). The art piece from Prospero Burns I posted is just one source. Another is "Leman Russ and Bodyguard". The bodyguard is taller than him.
Spoiler:
By the way, I was mistaken regarding Primarch Alpharius. He was taller than I thought: from the same source. "More than foot taller even than the Luna Wolves Space Marines, he had piercing green eyes and looked almost a match for Horus himself."
Which makes really confusing how he could pass for one of their legionaries.
@ThePrimordial: you were right regarding Alpharius.
What about the size of Valdor? I always supposed he was the size of a Primarch or really close.
Compare the Emperor to the Sisters of Silence in the picture above, for example.
Sisters of Silence were supposed to be heavily augmented too and they are consistently depicted as Astartes-size and clearly not mere humans.
Look at this:
Spoiler:
Do they look conventional humans?
However, James Swallow described them as tiny little girls that are unable to stop talking about their feelings. Perhaps they have many different ranks and the lower class is human-like. Let´s hope Forgeworld add some good stuff during 2014, a book about the burning of Prospero is in the making.
Orblivion wrote: Still, its rather jarring to see the primarchs in comparison to regular humans like that.
I find that artwork really disturbing. If they were that big, how were they able to take part in boardings? Imperial spaceships are stupidly big inside, but the average human sized ship... they would be unable to move.
Look at the drawing of Magnus from the cover of "a thousand sons"
His upper body looks to be like fifty feet tall when you consider he's in the very back ranks. Then add his legs.....Jesus.....
Valdor was not primarch sized. He was stated to be the size of Alpharius, who was a midget amonsgst his brothers. I've read a lot and don't remember the exact book.
Just look up Valdor on Lexicanum. He should have a very small article. It should list him as being the height of Alpharius.
They didn't need to bro.
The primarchs could make mince meat out of a 1000 marines if the marines had no other support. Sanguinius single handedly held off the entire Chaos army of tens of thousands of chaos infused marines at the palace of Terra and was doing fine.
Then there was Vulkan taking fire from Starships like Macrocannons (makes titan weaponry look like peashooters. A macrocannon fires 1000 ton projectiles at a fraction of light speed) and walking it off. The round touched his body.....
Primarchs are tough...
Actually, isn't that just a projection of Magnus? He looks all transparent, as if it's not real. I think that's just him casting a bit of magic to make himself look bigger, just so his soldiers can have a better look.
A 50 foot tall primarch would be a tad ridiculous. How do you transport him, or feed him? Just imagine the powered armor that you will need for him. I doubt the Emperor would be foolish enough to engineer something like that.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Actually, isn't that just a projection of Magnus? He looks all transparent, as if it's not real. I think that's just him casting a bit of magic to make himself look bigger, just so his soldiers can have a better look.
A 50 foot tall primarch would be a tad ridiculous. How do you transport him, or feed him? Just imagine the powered armor that you will need for him. I doubt the Emperor would be foolish enough to engineer something like that.
Magnus can make himself bigger than that. I mean like 200 feet tall (warlord titan sized) to punch gargants to death.
That isn't Magnus' normal walking around height. He took on many heights, and sizes due to his sheer psychic power.
For these reasons he's not a good example on Primarch height.
Near all of the Black Library. Which is also typically far better written and better than the typically crappy GW material who just inflate the proportions of their non-representative models. The whole seven foot tall bit comes from just blowing up an image of an Astartes used to show color schemes, which results in their proportions being wack.
How dare you present pictures of the Lord of Mankind! ... (although he does look kind of bored, I wonder if his eyes glowed gold like that all the time)
Also, Magnus has always been stated as being tall normally but able to swell his size with his psychic power. Which is why he appears so gigantic on the book cover.
When Russ fights him, I'm sure it's stated that his power swells him (presumably the warp stuff that he was constructed of) so that he can meet Magnus in battle.
(...) Valdor was not primarch sized. He was stated to be the size of Alpharius, who was a midget amonsgst his brothers. I've read a lot and don't remember the exact book.
Just look up Valdor on Lexicanum. He should have a very small article. It should list him as being the height of Alpharius.
Keep in mind that Valdor was nearly the size of the Emperor in every single artwork ever published. You are claiming that the Emperor was a midget compared with his sons.
And Alpharius, as described in Index Astartes, was near the size of Horus. I just quoted you that, word by word.
The Lion was 10 feet. 3 meters, as described in Descent of Angels. 3 meters is a giant.
The only divergent source is the front art of Unremembered Empire, that pushes them to a really disturbing 12 feet. If they were that big, they would tower over his father and wouldn´t be able to move in a human building.
The primarchs could make mince meat out of a 1000 marines if the marines had no other support. Sanguinius single handedly held off the entire Chaos army of tens of thousands of chaos infused marines at the palace of Terra and was doing fine.
Then there was Vulkan taking fire from Starships like Macrocannons (makes titan weaponry look like peashooters. A macrocannon fires 1000 ton projectiles at a fraction of light speed) and walking it off. The round touched his body.....
Primarchs are tough...
No please not again with this. Please no.
I asked you at least three times already in this and other threads where did you get this hilarious over the top stuff and you kept silence or say something like "read Fear to Thread", a book that has nothing of the like.
We are discussing the height of the Primarchs, not how stupidly powerful are in the minds of some fans.
Magnus far over 50 feet tall? Sanguinius fighting thousands of Marines? Come on. Read some background, they were never described that way. Never. At all. And there are many sources about the Primarchs.
Please post a valid source (I seriously doubt one exists) or stop that.
WarOne wrote: Given the average space marine is 15 feet tall, I would venture to say Primarchs ranged in the 20-30 foot category.
Yeah, right. Nothing I've read in the books implied such a gargantuan size. Neither do the miniatures nor common sense.
Rhino transport is about 6.5 metres (or 21 feet) long. How do you fit a 10-man squad and its crew inside if one Marine is nearly the size of the entire vehicle?
There was definitely a section in one of the first (if not the first HH book) that has a part where a rememberancer woman described how she see's one of the Astartes when he has been training and only wearing a simple cloth.... pretty sure it said 7.5 to 8ft of pure muscle
(...) Valdor was not primarch sized. He was stated to be the size of Alpharius, who was a midget amonsgst his brothers. I've read a lot and don't remember the exact book.
Just look up Valdor on Lexicanum. He should have a very small article. It should list him as being the height of Alpharius.
Keep in mind that Valdor was nearly the size of the Emperor in every single artwork ever published. You are claiming that the Emperor was a midget compared with his sons.
And Alpharius, as described in Index Astartes, was near the size of Horus. I just quoted you that, word by word.
The Lion was 10 feet. 3 meters, as described in Descent of Angels. 3 meters is a giant.
The only divergent source is the front art of Unremembered Empire, that pushes them to a really disturbing 12 feet. If they were that big, they would tower over his father and wouldn´t be able to move in a human building.
The primarchs could make mince meat out of a 1000 marines if the marines had no other support. Sanguinius single handedly held off the entire Chaos army of tens of thousands of chaos infused marines at the palace of Terra and was doing fine..
Then there was Vulkan taking fire from Starships like Macrocannons (makes titan weaponry look like peashooters. A macrocannon fires 1000 ton projectiles at a fraction of light speed) and walking it off. The round touched his body.....
Primarchs are tough...
No please not again with this. Please no.
I asked you at least three times already in this and other threads where did you get this hilarious over the top stuff and you kept silence or say something like "read Fear to Thread", a book that has nothing of the like.
We are discussing the height of the Primarchs, not how stupidly powerful are in the minds of some fans.
Magnus far over 50 feet tall? Sanguinius fighting thousands of Marines? Come on. Read some background, they were never described that way. Never. At all. And there are many sources about the Primarchs.
Please post a valid source (I seriously doubt one exists) or stop that.
The Sanguinius one is rather common knowledge.
This happened to Vulkan in Vulkan lives
Guilliman survived the destruction of his flagship's bridge, which he was on, and survived being in space with no oxygen in Know No Fear
Angron dug himself out of 1000's of tons of rubble in False Gods, and was uninjured.
Angron jumped dozens of meters to cleave apart a group of space marines in False Gods.
Fulgrim punched apart a Wraithlords head in Fulgrim. He did the same to an Avator of Khaine before strangling it in the same book.
A young unarmored Vulkan easily flipped and tossed a Dark Eldar skimmer in Promethean Suns.
Fulgrim cut apart a tank in Fulgrim.
There's a lot more. I can add page numbers
(...) Valdor was not primarch sized. He was stated to be the size of Alpharius, who was a midget amonsgst his brothers. I've read a lot and don't remember the exact book.
Just look up Valdor on Lexicanum. He should have a very small article. It should list him as being the height of Alpharius.
Keep in mind that Valdor was nearly the size of the Emperor in every single artwork ever published. You are claiming that the Emperor was a midget compared with his sons.
And Alpharius, as described in Index Astartes, was near the size of Horus. I just quoted you that, word by word.
The Lion was 10 feet. 3 meters, as described in Descent of Angels. 3 meters is a giant.
The only divergent source is the front art of Unremembered Empire, that pushes them to a really disturbing 12 feet. If they were that big, they would tower over his father and wouldn´t be able to move in a human building.
The primarchs could make mince meat out of a 1000 marines if the marines had no other support. Sanguinius single handedly held off the entire Chaos army of tens of thousands of chaos infused marines at the palace of Terra and was doing fine..
Then there was Vulkan taking fire from Starships like Macrocannons (makes titan weaponry look like peashooters. A macrocannon fires 1000 ton projectiles at a fraction of light speed) and walking it off. The round touched his body.....
Primarchs are tough...
No please not again with this. Please no.
I asked you at least three times already in this and other threads where did you get this hilarious over the top stuff and you kept silence or say something like "read Fear to Thread", a book that has nothing of the like.
We are discussing the height of the Primarchs, not how stupidly powerful are in the minds of some fans.
Magnus far over 50 feet tall? Sanguinius fighting thousands of Marines? Come on. Read some background, they were never described that way. Never. At all. And there are many sources about the Primarchs.
Please post a valid source (I seriously doubt one exists) or stop that.
The Sanguinius one is rather common knowledge.
This happened to Vulkan in Vulkan lives
Guilliman survived the destruction of his flagship's bridge, which he was on, and survived being in space with no oxygen in Know No Fear
Angron dug himself out of 1000's of tons of rubble in False Gods, and was uninjured.
Angron jumped dozens of meters to cleave apart a group of space marines in False Gods.
Fulgrim punched apart a Wraithlords head in Fulgrim. He did the same to an Avator of Khaine before strangling it in the same book.
A young unarmored Vulkan easily flipped and tossed a Dark Eldar skimmer in Promethean Suns.
Fulgrim cut apart a tank in Fulgrim.
There's a lot more. I can add page numbers
Dude, bro, dude. Its called hyperbole. FREQUENTLY in the HH books you have to squint a little bit to see past the BS and bad writing. For example, how exactly does one strangle a divine creature made up of molten metal? Is there some secret kung-fu choke we don't know about? Taking everything at face value creates fluff that is really quite bad and far beyond any sort of suspension of disbelief, which for 40k is really saying something. In summation: grains of salt, take them.
(...) Valdor was not primarch sized. He was stated to be the size of Alpharius, who was a midget amonsgst his brothers. I've read a lot and don't remember the exact book.
Just look up Valdor on Lexicanum. He should have a very small article. It should list him as being the height of Alpharius.
Keep in mind that Valdor was nearly the size of the Emperor in every single artwork ever published. You are claiming that the Emperor was a midget compared with his sons.
And Alpharius, as described in Index Astartes, was near the size of Horus. I just quoted you that, word by word.
The Lion was 10 feet. 3 meters, as described in Descent of Angels. 3 meters is a giant.
The only divergent source is the front art of Unremembered Empire, that pushes them to a really disturbing 12 feet. If they were that big, they would tower over his father and wouldn´t be able to move in a human building.
The primarchs could make mince meat out of a 1000 marines if the marines had no other support. Sanguinius single handedly held off the entire Chaos army of tens of thousands of chaos infused marines at the palace of Terra and was doing fine..
Then there was Vulkan taking fire from Starships like Macrocannons (makes titan weaponry look like peashooters. A macrocannon fires 1000 ton projectiles at a fraction of light speed) and walking it off. The round touched his body.....
Primarchs are tough...
No please not again with this. Please no.
I asked you at least three times already in this and other threads where did you get this hilarious over the top stuff and you kept silence or say something like "read Fear to Thread", a book that has nothing of the like.
We are discussing the height of the Primarchs, not how stupidly powerful are in the minds of some fans.
Magnus far over 50 feet tall? Sanguinius fighting thousands of Marines? Come on. Read some background, they were never described that way. Never. At all. And there are many sources about the Primarchs.
Please post a valid source (I seriously doubt one exists) or stop that.
The Sanguinius one is rather common knowledge.
This happened to Vulkan in Vulkan lives
Guilliman survived the destruction of his flagship's bridge, which he was on, and survived being in space with no oxygen in Know No Fear
Angron dug himself out of 1000's of tons of rubble in False Gods, and was uninjured.
Angron jumped dozens of meters to cleave apart a group of space marines in False Gods.
Fulgrim punched apart a Wraithlords head in Fulgrim. He did the same to an Avator of Khaine before strangling it in the same book.
A young unarmored Vulkan easily flipped and tossed a Dark Eldar skimmer in Promethean Suns.
Fulgrim cut apart a tank in Fulgrim.
There's a lot more. I can add page numbers
Dude, bro, dude. Its called hyperbole. FREQUENTLY in the HH books you have to squint a little bit to see past the BS and bad writing. For example, how exactly does one strangle a divine creature made up of molten metal? Is there some secret kung-fu choke we don't know about? Taking everything at face value creates fluff that is really quite bad and far beyond any sort of suspension of disbelief, which for 40k is really saying something. In summation: grains of salt, take them.
In the same universe Primarchs are stated to shatter mountains with thier blows.
Wonder which are actually hyperbole and which are real?
Not only that but the primarch's stats support some of these feats.
In first heretic they say when malcador being a hunched over old man was standing beside papa smurf and the evil space pope he was half their height so maybe ten feet at a stretch
Nope they are 12 feet tall if those dudes are average human height and if theyre augmented 14 feet tall or more.
Each Primarch is much less twice of the height of those humans. About 1.75 times of their height, in fact. So if you assume that those humans are about 175 cm, then the Primarchs are roughly three metres tall, which is about ten feet. To be 12 feet tall the Primarchs should be more than twice as tall as the servants, which is not the case.
Then explain nearly every Black Library book on the Space Marines or having them in it- especially of modern times. Plus Black Library >OOM> Scaled up miniatures with bulbous heads.
The classic "The Traitor Primarchs".
Both The Red Angel (the one floating), Abaddon and Arhiman are close enough to Horus to get a sense of proportion.
Wow, Ingethel the Ascended is so sexy. Best looking female Daemon ever.
Spoiler:
Guilliman punching out the head of a Word Bearer.
It is hard to get a sense of scale, but I find it fun.
Alpharius is not slightly bigger. Your estimates don't even account for an increase in size there but whatever. Alpharius is the height of a very tall astartes or custodes. He's like 9 feet tall.
That´s what I meant by "slightly bigger". They were supposed to be able to disguise as an Astartes.
I don´t know where did you get the Alpharius is 9 feet tall. If he were 1-2 feet over an Astartes, then no way he could be mistaken with one.
if someone doesn't mind, can someone list all the figures in this photo left to right
Automatically Appended Next Post: in the traitors primarchs art...
Then explain nearly every Black Library book on the Space Marines or having them in it- especially of modern times. Plus Black Library >OOM> Scaled up miniatures with bulbous heads.
BL is totally unreliable, because each author just makes gak up. BL books contradict each other all the time, and marines can be ten feet or eight feet or whatever, depending on which author is writing. Meanwhile studio marines have been pretty consistently seven feet. See C:CSM page 36, says it clearly.
I find it funny that the people who post outlandish estimates (15 ft. tall Astartes) repeatedly fail to provide any solid evidence and ignore proof to the contrary.
Magnus on the book cover is a psychic projection or something of the sort. Or he's chopped off his legs and pisses on the perspective, apparently.
Then explain nearly every Black Library book on the Space Marines or having them in it- especially of modern times. Plus Black Library >OOM> Scaled up miniatures with bulbous heads.
BL is totally unreliable, because each author just makes gak up. BL books contradict each other all the time, and marines can be ten feet or eight feet or whatever, depending on which author is writing. Meanwhile studio marines have been pretty consistently seven feet. See C:CSM page 36, says it clearly.
Only said methods result in strange height relying entirely on blowing up the image used to representing the color patterns of Astartes. Meanwhile, the Black Library is actually quite consistent with their size almost always averaging at eight feet as opposed to seven- as anyone who read the Black Library should know. A solid chunk of the Horus Heresy, Space Marine Battles, Talos Trilogy, and collections support this. They only differ enormously in size when they're mutated, such as Volos of the Black Dragons (heavily mutated SM with bone swords, horns similar to a wyrm, and specially modified armor to accommodate his increased size) or other mutants/extremely ancient astartes.
(Plus the codices themselves are unreliable and unlike the Black Library, lack a large count if we were to ever average them from a greater pool of numbers.)
Nope they are 12 feet tall if those dudes are average human height and if theyre augmented 14 feet tall or more.
Each Primarch is much less twice of the height of those humans. About 1.75 times of their height, in fact. So if you assume that those humans are about 175 cm, then the Primarchs are roughly three metres tall, which is about ten feet. To be 12 feet tall the Primarchs should be more than twice as tall as the servants, which is not the case.
Nope they are 12 feet tall if those dudes are average human height and if theyre augmented 14 feet tall or more.
Each Primarch is much less twice of the height of those humans. About 1.75 times of their height, in fact. So if you assume that those humans are about 175 cm, then the Primarchs are roughly three metres tall, which is about ten feet. To be 12 feet tall the Primarchs should be more than twice as tall as the servants, which is not the case.
then explain my picture on the previous page
That is one example where a primarch is twice the height of a human.
There are more examples where a primarch is not that high, and from official GW material as well.
Dude, bro, dude. Its called hyperbole. FREQUENTLY in the HH books you have to squint a little bit to see past the BS and bad writing. For example, how exactly does one strangle a divine creature made up of molten metal? Is there some secret kung-fu choke we don't know about? Taking everything at face value creates fluff that is really quite bad and far beyond any sort of suspension of disbelief, which for 40k is really saying something. In summation: grains of salt, take them.
He didn't strangle it. He crushed its throat, tearing through its armour and causing it to rupture.
Read the book before you comment on it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LightKing wrote: this is the best picture to use as a comparison between primarch and astartes
here's The Lion hovering over an Dark Angels battle brother (astarte)
Dude, bro, dude. Its called hyperbole. FREQUENTLY in the HH books you have to squint a little bit to see past the BS and bad writing. For example, how exactly does one strangle a divine creature made up of molten metal? Is there some secret kung-fu choke we don't know about? Taking everything at face value creates fluff that is really quite bad and far beyond any sort of suspension of disbelief, which for 40k is really saying something. In summation: grains of salt, take them.
He didn't strangle it. He crushed its throat, tearing through its armour and causing it to rupture.
Read the book before you comment on it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LightKing wrote: this is the best picture to use as a comparison between primarch and astartes
here's The Lion hovering over an Dark Angels battle brother (astarte)
That's fan art.
Good luck trying to crush liquid. Bad writing is bad. Come to terms with it.
The bobsy twins were the same height as a normal marines. There were able to intermingle and no one know that it was one of the bobsy twins talking to them instead of a marine.
That's easy, you clipped off the head of one of the servants, and still the two humans (one of them headless) are taller together than either of the Primarchs.
This is the measuring done correctly. The Green boxes piled on each other show the height x2 of the servants:
EVIL INC wrote: The bobsy twins were the same height as a normal marines. There were able to intermingle and no one know that it was one of the bobsy twins talking to them instead of a marine.
Nope more than a foot taller than Horus' marines. Only a very tall marine could pose as them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Iron_Captain wrote: The primarchs were actually midgets that walked on stilts.
Some big ass stilts.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Again Leman Russ was described as 1.75 times the height of an Astartes. This is 14 feet tall with the liberal 8ft for an astartes or 13 feet with the conservative 7.5ft.
That's awfully specific.
Magnus could make himself far larger than his apparent height on the cover of "A Thousand Sons". No problem there.
Apparently all the primarchs could make themselves that height by swelling from their raw power,
The Sanguinius part is (I guess) from the battle at the Gates of Eternity. It is the only time he fought traitor Astartes that we know of. And he was leading his Legion, in the most powerful stronghold ever built. Heroes do not get more heroic because they are turned into unbeatable god-like beings. They need weaknesses to overcome and become truly heroic.
Anyway, this is quite off topic, and easily gets silly. So I am letting it there. Believe whatever you want to believe.
if someone doesn't mind, can someone list all the figures in this photo left to right
in the traitors primarchs art...
how many primarchs are their in this picture
My pleasure. Awesome art, isn´t it?
It is from a book called "Collected Visions".
From left to right:
Spoiler:
Top left: three characters:
1: random Word Bearers marine with a horned helmet.
2: Erebus, the Dark Apostle, from the Word Bearers.
3: random giant Mechanicum dude with a gun in the mouth,
Guy with mechanical tentacles: Kelbor-Hal - Fabricator General of Mars, leader of the Dark Mechanicus and Lord of Mars.
Guy with a thing with skulls: Maloghurst the Twisted, of the Sons of Horus. Horus chief advisor.
Random terminator from the Sons of Horus.
Guy left to Horus: Abaddon, First Captain of the Sons of Horus.
Horus, Primarch of the Sons of Horus Legion, the Archtraitor.
The Red Angel.
Ahriman of the Thousand Sons
Random sorcerers of the Thousand Sons.
Ingethel the Ascended. An Undivided Daemon Prince, Emissary of the Gods.
Fulgrim, Primarch of the Emperor´s Children Legion.
So.... sadly there are only two Primarchs... who are slightly taller (one foot? Perhaps two feet) than the Astartes around them.
That's easy, you clipped off the head of one of the servants, and still the two humans (one of them headless) are taller together than either of the Primarchs.
This is the measuring done correctly. The Green boxes piled on each other show the height x2 of the servants:
Actually when I made that image, I had mentioned that I had 1 servant standing on the shoulders of the other, but that was months ago, and this argument is still just as silly as it was then. Does it really matter?
Magnus far over 50 feet tall? Sanguinius fighting thousands of Marines? Come on. Read some background, they were never described that way. Never. At all. And there are many sources about the Primarchs.
Please post a valid source (I seriously doubt one exists) or stop that.
Magnus killed hundreds of Space Wolves with a glance.
da001 wrote: And he couldn´t kill a single Sister of Silence.
Sisters of Silence > Leman Russ > hundreds of Space Wolves!
Lol, are you serious?
Phosis T'kar killed many Sisters of Silence on Prospero. Magnus' power was not even kind of impaired by their presence, nor was it impaired by a massive mountain (Taller than Olympus Mons) that actually shut down the powers of all the Thousand Sons around it.
Anyway, the power of everything in the setting goes up and down at the will of the writer. A single Space Wolf defeated Magnus twice in the Bill King´s series.
But we are talking about height.
I still think it goes like:
Astartes: 7,5"
Alpharius 8,5" (a foot over an Astartes, according to IA)
Average Primarch: 10". The Lion in DoA, Alpharius near Horus in IA...
Magnus: 12"? Not counting the "now I use the Warp and I look like a mountain" time.
The bobsy twins were the same height as the alpha legion marines. generally they all looked alike and were pretty much the same height and build and at no point in time were you ever sure if you were talking to one of the girls or an actual marine.
perhaps horuses marines were shorter than alpha legionaires or what is MUCH more likely,the bobsy twins wore 'heighteners" when in the company of outsiders to give the impression that they were taller than they were so that when they wore the normal alpha legion armor they used to be incognito, he outsiders wouldnt even consider it to be them because they would be 'too short". That actually makes sense to why in some of the books when they are not hiding who they are they look slightly taller and in the actual books about the alpha legion where they are working incognito, they blend right in with the masses.
da001 wrote: Hue hue hue hue hue hue hue no I am not serious.
Anyway, the power of everything in the setting goes up and down at the will of the writer. A single Space Wolf defeated Magnus twice in the Bill King´s series.
But we are talking about height.
I still think it goes like:
Astartes: 7,5"
Alpharius 8,5" (a foot over an Astartes, according to IA)
Average Primarch: 10". The Lion in DoA, Alpharius near Horus in IA...
Magnus: 12"? Not counting the "now I use the Warp and I look like a mountain" time.
Magnus, deliberately appearing in his original form, was 16.5' in Battle of the Fang.
On average between 2.5 metres to around 3.5 metres at most...Magnus was reported to have been a Giant even for a Primarch...while Apharius/Omagon could have passed for a regular marine. Marines in General were around 2 to 2.5 metres.
Well from most drawings a Primarch is shown to be about twice the size of a regular human, so by this a Primarch would be about 11 feet on average and then the larger ones like Horus, Russ, Magnus and Vulkan.
The people next to Guilliman and Sanguinius could have been a) not adults or b) abhumans
Why have none of you even considered this?
Magnus was also stated to be almost as tall as the Emperor (who was probably also guilty of the "what's my real size game" that he no doubt played through out his life and with women)
Mellow wrote: The people next to Guilliman and Sanguinius could have been a) not adults or b) abhumans
Why have none of you even considered this?
Magnus was also stated to be almost as tall as the Emperor (who was probably also guilty of the "what's my real size game" that he no doubt played through out his life and with women)
It is very true, they could have been considerably taller than normal humans. ;D
Mellow wrote: The people next to Guilliman and Sanguinius could have been a) not adults or b) abhumans
Why have none of you even considered this?
Magnus was also stated to be almost as tall as the Emperor (who was probably also guilty of the "what's my real size game" that he no doubt played through out his life and with women)
Magnus was stated to be taller than the Emperor, actually.
I think there's an easy way to get a good idea of Horus' height. Take the image below, do the green box thingy on the skulls hanging off his belt and see how many heads tall he is. Simples, except I don't know how to do it
master of asgard wrote: I think there's an easy way to get a good idea of Horus' height. Take the image below, do the green box thingy on the skulls hanging off his belt and see how many heads tall he is. Simples, except I don't know how to do it
Horus' head is only about 10-20% larger than the heads hanging off his armour.
You can't really get a difference between Sanguinus and Horus, as Sanguinus actually comes out the same height as Horus by my calcs, but he's closer to the "camera" so will appear larger. Horus is 660 random units of measurement, assuming Sanguinus is lying down at a 60 degree angle from vertical and the camera is about 30 tilted downward at that point, Sanguinus is 650 random units of measurement.
