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 da001 wrote:
Wow I just remember the Unremembered Empire:

Spoiler:

OMG they are like 12" perhaps bigger. That or the two guys in front are midgets.

This was actually from a topic posted here on Dakka: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/516655.page

 ThePrimordial wrote:

The average astartes is 8 feet tall. Do you really think there can't be a 1 foot differential?

Of course I do. He was supposed to of a similar size. If he was 1 foot bigger, he would have been spotted easily.
7,5" feet for Astartes and 8" for Alpharius sounds fine.

Constantin Valdor, the hero of the custodies was the height of Alpharius.

Source? I thought Valdor was the size of your average Primarch

Valdor, The Emperor and Jenetta Krole:

Spoiler:

A relatively tall Astartes still could've posed as Alpharius. This was an impossibility with the other primarchs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 the shrouded lord wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:
So there's been a lot of questioning about this. Here's my approximations on some key primarchs.
-Leman Russ: 14ft (stated to be 1.75*an astartes in every physical dimension)
-Horus: 15ft (just a rough guess based on official art depicting him in excess of twice the height of an astartes)
-Sanguinius: 13 feet (shown in official art to be shorter than Horus)
-Magnus the Red: height varies due to sheer psychic power of biology. In general 9-10ft when trying to be unintimidating. 18-20ft normally. Both he and Russ literally grew to Warlord Titan size when they got serious in thier fight.
-Angron: 12ft (shown to be shorter than his brothers but far thicker in musculature)
-Fulgrim: 12ft (same as Angron but not nearly as thick)
-Ferrus Manus: 14ft (shown to be taller than most primarchs like Russ)

Wait what's this about warlord size?

At the end of "A Thousand Sons" Magnus and Russ are stated by Ahriman to grow to titanic (taller than the thousand sons reaver) heights to engage in their battle, just like the legends would've painted.
Magnus also grew to warlord size to punch gargants to death.

Lion El'Jonson is explicitly said to be a little over three meters tall unarmoured in Descent of Angels. This would make him about ten feet tall.

Magnus is, in Battle of the Fang, said to be five meters tall. This is nearly 17 feet, indeed making him a giant even among the Primarchs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

The average astartes is 8 feet tall. Do you really think there can't be a 1 foot differential?

The average Astartes is closer to seven feet tall, maybe 7.5.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 da001 wrote:

Russ and Angron were the shortest of the rest. 8,5", perhaps 9".

Russ was explicitly said to be one of the largest Primarchs in Index Astartes.

Russ is a Viking.
Speaking simply from the scale of this group of people would make him amongst the largest.

Astartes always average eight feet tall. Alpharius should be around nine feet as he could disguise himself as a tall Astartes, and the rest of the Primarchs were upwards of ten feet or greater. Magnus was a giant and dwarfed everyone.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Astartes always average eight feet tall.

Cite your source.

I dare you.

How tall would we estimate the normal humans attending to Sanguinius to be?

Artwork is not really a valid source of comparison, IMHO.

Partly because apparently Sanguinius isn't even fething in Unremembered Empire.

Partly because it is inconsistent with other pieces.

Compare the Emperor to the Sisters of Silence in the picture above, for example.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Artwork is not really a valid source of comparison, IMHO.

Partly because apparently Sanguinius isn't even fething in Unremembered Empire.

Partly because it is inconsistent with other pieces.

Compare the Emperor to the Sisters of Silence in the picture above, for example.

Yeah, inconsistency is pretty evident in the artwork. Still, its rather jarring to see the primarchs in comparison to regular humans like that.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 da001 wrote:

Russ and Angron were the shortest of the rest. 8,5", perhaps 9".

Russ was explicitly said to be one of the largest Primarchs in Index Astartes.

Where exactly? I only find "Magnus the Red was a giant of a man, standing far taller than even his brother Primarchs" in The Horus Heresy entry, Index Astartes SW.

I thought he was smaller than the rest (with Angron). The art piece from Prospero Burns I posted is just one source. Another is "Leman Russ and Bodyguard". The bodyguard is taller than him.


By the way, I was mistaken regarding Primarch Alpharius. He was taller than I thought: from the same source. "More than foot taller even than the Luna Wolves Space Marines, he had piercing green eyes and looked almost a match for Horus himself."

Which makes really confusing how he could pass for one of their legionaries.

@ThePrimordial: you were right regarding Alpharius.
What about the size of Valdor? I always supposed he was the size of a Primarch or really close.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Compare the Emperor to the Sisters of Silence in the picture above, for example.

Sisters of Silence were supposed to be heavily augmented too and they are consistently depicted as Astartes-size and clearly not mere humans.

Look at this:
Do they look conventional humans?

However, James Swallow described them as tiny little girls that are unable to stop talking about their feelings. Perhaps they have many different ranks and the lower class is human-like. Let´s hope Forgeworld add some good stuff during 2014, a book about the burning of Prospero is in the making.

 Orblivion wrote:
Still, its rather jarring to see the primarchs in comparison to regular humans like that.

I find that artwork really disturbing. If they were that big, how were they able to take part in boardings? Imperial spaceships are stupidly big inside, but the average human sized ship... they would be unable to move.

 Orblivion wrote:
How tall would we estimate the normal humans attending to Sanguinius to be?

I love that picture. It is one of my favourite pieces of artwork in all of 40/30K.

Not to mention all the depth beneath its surface, such as its symbolism.

 da001 wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 da001 wrote:

Russ and Angron were the shortest of the rest. 8,5", perhaps 9".

Russ was explicitly said to be one of the largest Primarchs in Index Astartes.

Where exactly? I only find "Magnus the Red was a giant of a man, standing far taller than even his brother Primarchs" in The Horus Heresy entry, Index Astartes SW.

I thought he was smaller than the rest (with Angron). The art piece from Prospero Burns I posted is just one source. Another is "Leman Russ and Bodyguard". The bodyguard is taller than him.

Spoiler:

By the way, I was mistaken regarding Primarch Alpharius. He was taller than I thought: from the same source. "More than foot taller even than the Luna Wolves Space Marines, he had piercing green eyes and looked almost a match for Horus himself."

Which makes really confusing how he could pass for one of their legionaries.

@ThePrimordial: you were right regarding Alpharius.
What about the size of Valdor? I always supposed he was the size of a Primarch or really close.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Compare the Emperor to the Sisters of Silence in the picture above, for example.

Sisters of Silence were supposed to be heavily augmented too and they are consistently depicted as Astartes-size and clearly not mere humans.
Look at this:

Spoiler:

Do they look conventional humans?

However, James Swallow described them as tiny little girls that are unable to stop talking about their feelings. Perhaps they have many different ranks and the lower class is human-like. Let´s hope Forgeworld add some good stuff during 2014, a book about the burning of Prospero is in the making.

 Orblivion wrote:
Still, its rather jarring to see the primarchs in comparison to regular humans like that.

I find that artwork really disturbing. If they were that big, how were they able to take part in boardings? Imperial spaceships are stupidly big inside, but the average human sized ship... they would be unable to move.

Look at the drawing of Magnus from the cover of "a thousand sons"
His upper body looks to be like fifty feet tall when you consider he's in the very back ranks. Then add his legs.....Jesus.....
Valdor was not primarch sized. He was stated to be the size of Alpharius, who was a midget amonsgst his brothers. I've read a lot and don't remember the exact book.
Just look up Valdor on Lexicanum. He should have a very small article. It should list him as being the height of Alpharius.
They didn't need to bro.
The primarchs could make mince meat out of a 1000 marines if the marines had no other support. Sanguinius single handedly held off the entire Chaos army of tens of thousands of chaos infused marines at the palace of Terra and was doing fine.
Then there was Vulkan taking fire from Starships like Macrocannons (makes titan weaponry look like peashooters. A macrocannon fires 1000 ton projectiles at a fraction of light speed) and walking it off. The round touched his body.....
Primarchs are tough...

Actually, isn't that just a projection of Magnus? He looks all transparent, as if it's not real. I think that's just him casting a bit of magic to make himself look bigger, just so his soldiers can have a better look.

A 50 foot tall primarch would be a tad ridiculous. How do you transport him, or feed him? Just imagine the powered armor that you will need for him. I doubt the Emperor would be foolish enough to engineer something like that.

12ft tall

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Actually, isn't that just a projection of Magnus? He looks all transparent, as if it's not real. I think that's just him casting a bit of magic to make himself look bigger, just so his soldiers can have a better look.

A 50 foot tall primarch would be a tad ridiculous. How do you transport him, or feed him? Just imagine the powered armor that you will need for him. I doubt the Emperor would be foolish enough to engineer something like that.

Magnus can make himself bigger than that. I mean like 200 feet tall (warlord titan sized) to punch gargants to death.
That isn't Magnus' normal walking around height. He took on many heights, and sizes due to his sheer psychic power.
For these reasons he's not a good example on Primarch height.

Then why does he keep getting brought up, if he's that unreliable?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Then why does he keep getting brought up, if he's that unreliable?

Because Magnus is cool.
Um seriously that's the reason. I listed in the Opener that he doesn't count to an extent.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Astartes always average eight feet tall.

Cite your source.

I dare you.

Near all of the Black Library. Which is also typically far better written and better than the typically crappy GW material who just inflate the proportions of their non-representative models. The whole seven foot tall bit comes from just blowing up an image of an Astartes used to show color schemes, which results in their proportions being wack.

 da001 wrote:

Valdor, The Emperor and Jenetta Krole:

Spoiler:

How dare you present pictures of the Lord of Mankind! ... (although he does look kind of bored, I wonder if his eyes glowed gold like that all the time)

Also, Magnus has always been stated as being tall normally but able to swell his size with his psychic power. Which is why he appears so gigantic on the book cover.

When Russ fights him, I'm sure it's stated that his power swells him (presumably the warp stuff that he was constructed of) so that he can meet Magnus in battle.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

(...) Valdor was not primarch sized. He was stated to be the size of Alpharius, who was a midget amonsgst his brothers. I've read a lot and don't remember the exact book.
Just look up Valdor on Lexicanum. He should have a very small article. It should list him as being the height of Alpharius.

Keep in mind that Valdor was nearly the size of the Emperor in every single artwork ever published. You are claiming that the Emperor was a midget compared with his sons.

And Alpharius, as described in Index Astartes, was near the size of Horus. I just quoted you that, word by word.

The Lion was 10 feet. 3 meters, as described in Descent of Angels. 3 meters is a giant.

The only divergent source is the front art of Unremembered Empire, that pushes them to a really disturbing 12 feet. If they were that big, they would tower over his father and wouldn´t be able to move in a human building.

The primarchs could make mince meat out of a 1000 marines if the marines had no other support. Sanguinius single handedly held off the entire Chaos army of tens of thousands of chaos infused marines at the palace of Terra and was doing fine.
Then there was Vulkan taking fire from Starships like Macrocannons (makes titan weaponry look like peashooters. A macrocannon fires 1000 ton projectiles at a fraction of light speed) and walking it off. The round touched his body.....
Primarchs are tough...

No please not again with this. Please no.

I asked you at least three times already in this and other threads where did you get this hilarious over the top stuff and you kept silence or say something like "read Fear to Thread", a book that has nothing of the like.

We are discussing the height of the Primarchs, not how stupidly powerful are in the minds of some fans.

Magnus far over 50 feet tall? Sanguinius fighting thousands of Marines? Come on. Read some background, they were never described that way. Never. At all. And there are many sources about the Primarchs.

Please post a valid source (I seriously doubt one exists) or stop that.

Given the average space marine is 15 feet tall, I would venture to say Primarchs ranged in the 20-30 foot category.

 WarOne wrote:
Given the average space marine is 15 feet tall, I would venture to say Primarchs ranged in the 20-30 foot category.

Wait, what? That's not right at all.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 WarOne wrote:
Given the average space marine is 15 feet tall, I would venture to say Primarchs ranged in the 20-30 foot category.

Wait, what? That's not right at all.

DCMs have gone through thousands of hours of research on the subject for this veracity:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/226905.page

Basically it's about 30,000 responses on the subject that we've debated.

 WarOne wrote:
Given the average space marine is 15 feet tall, I would venture to say Primarchs ranged in the 20-30 foot category.

Yeah, right. Nothing I've read in the books implied such a gargantuan size. Neither do the miniatures nor common sense.

Rhino transport is about 6.5 metres (or 21 feet) long. How do you fit a 10-man squad and its crew inside if one Marine is nearly the size of the entire vehicle?

I was not part of Research Group Non Compos Mentis for the entire debate but suffice to say their findings in the posted thread support that claim.

There was definitely a section in one of the first (if not the first HH book) that has a part where a rememberancer woman described how she see's one of the Astartes when he has been training and only wearing a simple cloth.... pretty sure it said 7.5 to 8ft of pure muscle

 da001 wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

(...) Valdor was not primarch sized. He was stated to be the size of Alpharius, who was a midget amonsgst his brothers. I've read a lot and don't remember the exact book.
Just look up Valdor on Lexicanum. He should have a very small article. It should list him as being the height of Alpharius.

Keep in mind that Valdor was nearly the size of the Emperor in every single artwork ever published. You are claiming that the Emperor was a midget compared with his sons.

And Alpharius, as described in Index Astartes, was near the size of Horus. I just quoted you that, word by word.

The Lion was 10 feet. 3 meters, as described in Descent of Angels. 3 meters is a giant.

The only divergent source is the front art of Unremembered Empire, that pushes them to a really disturbing 12 feet. If they were that big, they would tower over his father and wouldn´t be able to move in a human building.

The primarchs could make mince meat out of a 1000 marines if the marines had no other support. Sanguinius single handedly held off the entire Chaos army of tens of thousands of chaos infused marines at the palace of Terra and was doing fine..
Then there was Vulkan taking fire from Starships like Macrocannons (makes titan weaponry look like peashooters. A macrocannon fires 1000 ton projectiles at a fraction of light speed) and walking it off. The round touched his body.....
Primarchs are tough...

No please not again with this. Please no.

I asked you at least three times already in this and other threads where did you get this hilarious over the top stuff and you kept silence or say something like "read Fear to Thread", a book that has nothing of the like.

We are discussing the height of the Primarchs, not how stupidly powerful are in the minds of some fans.

Magnus far over 50 feet tall? Sanguinius fighting thousands of Marines? Come on. Read some background, they were never described that way. Never. At all. And there are many sources about the Primarchs.

Please post a valid source (I seriously doubt one exists) or stop that.

The Sanguinius one is rather common knowledge.
This happened to Vulkan in Vulkan lives
Guilliman survived the destruction of his flagship's bridge, which he was on, and survived being in space with no oxygen in Know No Fear
Angron dug himself out of 1000's of tons of rubble in False Gods, and was uninjured.
Angron jumped dozens of meters to cleave apart a group of space marines in False Gods.
Fulgrim punched apart a Wraithlords head in Fulgrim. He did the same to an Avator of Khaine before strangling it in the same book.
A young unarmored Vulkan easily flipped and tossed a Dark Eldar skimmer in Promethean Suns.
Fulgrim cut apart a tank in Fulgrim.
There's a lot more. I can add page numbers

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 da001 wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

(...) Valdor was not primarch sized. He was stated to be the size of Alpharius, who was a midget amonsgst his brothers. I've read a lot and don't remember the exact book.
Just look up Valdor on Lexicanum. He should have a very small article. It should list him as being the height of Alpharius.

Keep in mind that Valdor was nearly the size of the Emperor in every single artwork ever published. You are claiming that the Emperor was a midget compared with his sons.

And Alpharius, as described in Index Astartes, was near the size of Horus. I just quoted you that, word by word.

The Lion was 10 feet. 3 meters, as described in Descent of Angels. 3 meters is a giant.

The only divergent source is the front art of Unremembered Empire, that pushes them to a really disturbing 12 feet. If they were that big, they would tower over his father and wouldn´t be able to move in a human building.

The primarchs could make mince meat out of a 1000 marines if the marines had no other support. Sanguinius single handedly held off the entire Chaos army of tens of thousands of chaos infused marines at the palace of Terra and was doing fine..
Then there was Vulkan taking fire from Starships like Macrocannons (makes titan weaponry look like peashooters. A macrocannon fires 1000 ton projectiles at a fraction of light speed) and walking it off. The round touched his body.....
Primarchs are tough...

No please not again with this. Please no.

I asked you at least three times already in this and other threads where did you get this hilarious over the top stuff and you kept silence or say something like "read Fear to Thread", a book that has nothing of the like.

We are discussing the height of the Primarchs, not how stupidly powerful are in the minds of some fans.

Magnus far over 50 feet tall? Sanguinius fighting thousands of Marines? Come on. Read some background, they were never described that way. Never. At all. And there are many sources about the Primarchs.

Please post a valid source (I seriously doubt one exists) or stop that.

The Sanguinius one is rather common knowledge.
This happened to Vulkan in Vulkan lives
Guilliman survived the destruction of his flagship's bridge, which he was on, and survived being in space with no oxygen in Know No Fear
Angron dug himself out of 1000's of tons of rubble in False Gods, and was uninjured.
Angron jumped dozens of meters to cleave apart a group of space marines in False Gods.
Fulgrim punched apart a Wraithlords head in Fulgrim. He did the same to an Avator of Khaine before strangling it in the same book.
A young unarmored Vulkan easily flipped and tossed a Dark Eldar skimmer in Promethean Suns.
Fulgrim cut apart a tank in Fulgrim.
There's a lot more. I can add page numbers

Dude, bro, dude. Its called hyperbole. FREQUENTLY in the HH books you have to squint a little bit to see past the BS and bad writing. For example, how exactly does one strangle a divine creature made up of molten metal? Is there some secret kung-fu choke we don't know about? Taking everything at face value creates fluff that is really quite bad and far beyond any sort of suspension of disbelief, which for 40k is really saying something. In summation: grains of salt, take them.

 DEUS VULT wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 da001 wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

(...) Valdor was not primarch sized. He was stated to be the size of Alpharius, who was a midget amonsgst his brothers. I've read a lot and don't remember the exact book.
Just look up Valdor on Lexicanum. He should have a very small article. It should list him as being the height of Alpharius.

Keep in mind that Valdor was nearly the size of the Emperor in every single artwork ever published. You are claiming that the Emperor was a midget compared with his sons.

And Alpharius, as described in Index Astartes, was near the size of Horus. I just quoted you that, word by word.

The Lion was 10 feet. 3 meters, as described in Descent of Angels. 3 meters is a giant.

The only divergent source is the front art of Unremembered Empire, that pushes them to a really disturbing 12 feet. If they were that big, they would tower over his father and wouldn´t be able to move in a human building.

The primarchs could make mince meat out of a 1000 marines if the marines had no other support. Sanguinius single handedly held off the entire Chaos army of tens of thousands of chaos infused marines at the palace of Terra and was doing fine..
Then there was Vulkan taking fire from Starships like Macrocannons (makes titan weaponry look like peashooters. A macrocannon fires 1000 ton projectiles at a fraction of light speed) and walking it off. The round touched his body.....
Primarchs are tough...

No please not again with this. Please no.

I asked you at least three times already in this and other threads where did you get this hilarious over the top stuff and you kept silence or say something like "read Fear to Thread", a book that has nothing of the like.

We are discussing the height of the Primarchs, not how stupidly powerful are in the minds of some fans.

Magnus far over 50 feet tall? Sanguinius fighting thousands of Marines? Come on. Read some background, they were never described that way. Never. At all. And there are many sources about the Primarchs.

Please post a valid source (I seriously doubt one exists) or stop that.

The Sanguinius one is rather common knowledge.
This happened to Vulkan in Vulkan lives
Guilliman survived the destruction of his flagship's bridge, which he was on, and survived being in space with no oxygen in Know No Fear
Angron dug himself out of 1000's of tons of rubble in False Gods, and was uninjured.
Angron jumped dozens of meters to cleave apart a group of space marines in False Gods.
Fulgrim punched apart a Wraithlords head in Fulgrim. He did the same to an Avator of Khaine before strangling it in the same book.
A young unarmored Vulkan easily flipped and tossed a Dark Eldar skimmer in Promethean Suns.
Fulgrim cut apart a tank in Fulgrim.
There's a lot more. I can add page numbers

Dude, bro, dude. Its called hyperbole. FREQUENTLY in the HH books you have to squint a little bit to see past the BS and bad writing. For example, how exactly does one strangle a divine creature made up of molten metal? Is there some secret kung-fu choke we don't know about? Taking everything at face value creates fluff that is really quite bad and far beyond any sort of suspension of disbelief, which for 40k is really saying something. In summation: grains of salt, take them.

In the same universe Primarchs are stated to shatter mountains with thier blows.
Wonder which are actually hyperbole and which are real?
Not only that but the primarch's stats support some of these feats.

This discussion has become really silly. Please, stop.

In first heretic they say when malcador being a hunched over old man was standing beside papa smurf and the evil space pope he was half their height so maybe ten feet at a stretch